Ray and Charles Eames: More than Chairs | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too and we're just doing our usual. chatting it up here on the podcast that. we like to call stuff you should know. that's right I'm pretty excited about. this one yeah this is your pick right uh. yeah this is one I've been wanting to do.

for a long time mhm well here we are. Charles here we are well I'm glad you're. excited I'm excited too it's a pretty. cool topic the EM Charles and Ray em Ray. and Charles eem depending on how you. want to say it doesn't matter because uh. any way you slice that they were. equals uh yeah and you know if if you. don't know who we're talking about we. should probably say so right off the bat. they are uh or I guess I should say were. a married couple who kind of of um I.

don't know if they changed the face of. design but they were certainly very. influential and design and you know all. they did all kinds of things in their. career but what they're most known for. uh is their design of simple eye. pleasing and back then affordable. furniture yeah I'm not even sure it was. particularly affordable back then but. that was definitely their goal they. wanted to make the best for the most for.

the least they really tied into the. ethos that they were working in which. was immediately post-war um economic. boom America yeah I saw that their um. and this was uh in their great. documentary em colon the architect and. the painter from 2011 filmmakers Jason. con and Bill Jersey I've seen it twice. now it's an American Masters one isn't. it uh I don't knows may have picked it. up but I don't think it originally was. but I'm not sure got to uh but I saw it.

back in 2011 I guess and then watched it. again uh yesterday and today uh but they. said that it was you know definitely. sort of middle to upper middle class. people who were who could afford to buy. their stuff at the time but it wasn't. for the the lofty Super Rich right but. it also wasn't for your average joeo. with a a mortgage and all that right. well some stuff was okay so um I you. said that they didn't necessarily change. the face of design.

I I don't know I'm not 100% sure I guess. looking back um with hindsight the way. that people treat them today they're. revered like Gods yeah for sure but I I. guess maybe at the time. contemporaneously they were part of a. larger push like they were they worked. with Aeros saronin um he was a huge. hugely influential architect and. designer they worked with Charles Nelson. hugely influential designer they were. part of like this um uh Vanguard I guess. of new modernist design uh again using.

kind of like industrial readily. available mass-producible. materials but applying really um really. like legitimately artistic talent and. vision and design to the whole thing you. know I had no idea until just now that. Charles Nelson Riley also worked in. design he did he said um I can't even do. it I can't do it in person Yumi probably. could one of her dogs is named Charlie. named for Charles Nelson Riley when she.

was a kid oh man I mean if that's not a. joke for I mean Gen X is the the low end. of that joke did you see his oneman. show no they did a documentary of his. oneman show that he did before his death. and it's good very touching poignant. like you know Charles Nelson Riley with. a little bit of his guard down I'd like. to see that yeah check it out but let's. say we go back to the beginning and. we'll let everybody else decide whether. they change the face of design or not.

all right uh we'll start with uh well. let's start with uh Bernice Alexandra. Kaiser and we were like who the heck is. that her family called her Ray Ray and. that eventually just got shorten to Ray. sure everybody got sick of that hyphen. yeah she was born in Sacramento in. 1912 and she ended up being interested. in a lot of things as did her future. husband Charles but she was largely an. artist and largely a painter even though. she was into engineering and obviously.

design and all kinds of stuff like that. but she was basically a painter and. would eventually study under uh a. gentleman named Hans Hoffman very famous. German expressionist and was a a bit of. a Rabel Rouser in the art community. early on and that she was like uh she. was in a group called American Abstract. artists that would do things like picket. if they didn't you know have art shows. that represented different kinds of. artists yeah um apparently militancy. toward um modernist ideas was kind of a.

through thread for people who were into. modernism like they really were in the. face of tradition and bucking that whole. thing and part of that was kind of like. a militant approach to it which I guess. includes picketing art galleries right. yeah but she was part of that movement. before Pollock and duning is it duning. or cooning I think it's tooning yeah um. before those guys even like a decade. before those guys came into it she was. part of like that first wave so she was.

legit abstract artist um and then her. husband who was born five years. previously I think in 1907 in St Louis. Missouri just missed the World's Fair no. when was that. 1904 well he might have gone have you. ever seen Meet Me In St Louis oh wait. four years three years prior sorry. that's that would be impossible right I. was like they could have taken a. three-year-old yeah but they couldn't. have taken a negative three-year-old no.

they tried I guess technically I guess. they did if that sperm had just stayed. in the same place and it was same egg. and they just were frozen in time. essentially. reproductively oh boy yeah at any rate. he was born in St Louis in 1907 and he. wanted to be an architect essentially. out of the gate he studied architecture. at Washington University in St Louis um. and he got kicked out he left SL got. kicked out after about two years of. study because he was also a militant.

modernist and at the time the training. he was receiving was not I saw it. described as Boart and it was not. modernist at all and they were like get. out of here you hippie Bozo. right so he did he got that did not stop. him though he was like you know I'm. still going to be an architect like how. often does anyone say let me see your. degree it's true it seems when you're. desiging a house I know so uh even. though he didn't technically have the. professional you know schooled.

credentials finished he started. practicing with a guy named Robert Walsh. uh he was very good at it early on and. everyone was like this guy you know did. you see his degree I didn't see his. degree but I'm not going to ask because. you should see the way he draws up a. house yeah he would hand off his. drawings with this probably won't fall. down I think that was Frank L right oh. okay uh 1929 he got married for the. first time to a woman named Katherine uh. Warman they were College uh sweethearts. I guess and and had a daughter who had.

end up being the only um s to child uh. for Charles E he never had a kid with uh. with Ray her name was Lucia and he was. doing such a good job that there was an. architect you mentioned his son Arrow. saronin earlier uh but the architect uh. the father I guess alil saronin said hey. I like what you're throwing down there. why don't you come on out to Michigan to. the cranberry Academy of Art in. Bloomfield heill heels Hills and why.

don't you become well first of all come. out for a fellowship but you know as. you'll see Charles eamm was very uh. ambitious guy and before you know it he. was the director of the industrial. design program there yeah he was. supposedly thinking he was just going to. go there and take it easy and and kind. of reather regroup and they're like no. you're too talented you need to head all. this up at uh Cranbrook I believe right. which is very key because that is where. RayRay ended. yeah working together at Cranbrook they.

got into one of their early materials. probably the material that made them. famous at least initially but still is. is kind of associated with their design. plywood plywood they were like plywood. we're going to start making things out. of plywood just watch and I I think at. the time plywood doesn't have quite the. connotation that it does now like the. stuff you just kind of lay over your. attic Rafters and crawl on like it was a. little more Hightech than that but not.

that much more so the idea of taking. plywood and turning into a beautiful. organic design that also was functional. too um it was kind of groundbreaking. yeah for sure um arrow and Charles and. then Ry assisted on this project entered. a chair into Museum of Modern Arts 1941. organic design and Home Furnishings. competition and they won even though. this chair was technically a failure uh. they were you know they realized the.

reason they love plywood is that they. could bend it in two different. directions they won because they found. love probably so uh but you could you. know you could curve wood pieces that. weren't plywood but what you couldn't do. is curve a wood piece and then curve it. again in a different direction right but. they found that with plywood you. basically could uh but it was pretty. early on in this process so their chair. where the back met the seat would. Splinter MH uh which is no good but they.

ended up covering it in fabric to hide. that uh something that you'll see they. they did not like fabric later in their. designs they were they thought it was. sort of old-fashioned it was expensive. and they were trying to make make stuff. a little more affordable but they. covered this thing and fabric to hide. that and they won the competition but. the chair was uh even though it won the. competition it was a failure in that it. was it could not be mass-produced. basically as is yeah I saw another um. stage of their plywood bending molding. design was that they figured out that.

they could bend it even further if they. cut like a slit in the middle of it oh. okay and they they would make it almost. like a keyhole slit so it looked like a. design element but really it was. allowing them to to mold it a little. further than than before they this is. what they were doing throughout like the. late 20s and through the whole 30s and. into the 40s they were experimenting. with turn bending plywood to their will. essentially come here plywood yeah so um. that was I think did you say Ry helped.

on that that um particular one yeah she. worked with them and that's where they. you know fell in love yeah so um uh. Charles and his first wife Katherine. divorced uh I think after about 11 or 12. years of marriage and uh he uh went. after Ry pretty much immediately after. and they got married in. 1941 and right after they got married in. 1941 they did what any um. self-respecting artist was doing at the. time they looked Westward and got into.

some jalap or other and drove out to. California yeah they're like forget it. New York we're going to La also I should. say I'm presuming they drove but knowing. me and the streak I'm on lately they. definitely flew and everyone knows that. they flew except me oh come on uh so. they went to LA I'm with you man they. drove their butts to California thanks. Chuck you're so supportive of me and I. appreciate it like The Beverly. Hillbillies Charles is on on top in a. rocking chair right and and uh Ry had.

the um shotgun in her lap yeah can you. imagine I mean that that setup was very. unsafe there's a gun in the lap there's. an elderly woman in a rocking chair on. top of a truck exactly yeah good Lord. but that's the hillbilly way they don't. care they they'll they'll look danger in. the face and laugh all the way to. California so they get to California. they started making connections. obviously pretty quickly out there to. the the Southern California modernist. scene which was just getting going.

pretty hopping uh a very key person they. met and befriended was a guy named John. intenza who published Arts uh and. architecture magazine and they ended up. designing uh 26 different covers over. like a fiveyear period that's a that's a. lot that's about half yeah I'm not a big. math guy but is it a monthly yeah if it. was monthly that's 60 issues over that 5. years and if they did 26 it's almost. half of them as soon as I said was it. monthly I immediately panicked that the.

name that I had just said was arts and. architecture monthly no you didn't it's. just art arts and architecture quarterly. all right so oh. quarterly so they designed a bunch of. those uh those covers um and tinza. became a big sort of supporter of theirs. and uh they also met a guy an architect. named Richard Neutra who said hey I. design these killer apartments in. Westwood the Strathmore apartments and. you should live in one of them because. Orson Wells will live there too yeah.

there Strathmore makes me think of like. uh some new skyscraper but it was like a. twostory house is structure I think. divided into three apartments and um. they're still on the market these days. so they're very nice looking they are. they're very cool um so they just. started making connections right off the. bat but they weren't really making any. money and Charles ended up um well they. were doing two things they were spending. all of their free time um working at. home in their apartment which they.

converted into like a working Studio. bending plywood there's a there's a. legendary machine called the Kazam. machine that no one seems to um know. exactly how it worked but they used it. to mold plywood to bend plywood part of. it involved a heavy balloon and a. bicycle pump that would provide the. shape that it would be molded against. but somehow it also used electricity so. Charles climbed an electrical pole and. and tapped into the electri. very very unwise thing to do and luckily.

he survived but that's how that's how. broke they were they were stealing. electricity to um Power their Kazam. machine in their Studio where they were. still working on plywood designs yeah it. used it uh heating coils so that had to. have been what took all the juice sure. and you know applying heat to bend. something is a pretty tried andrue. method so I I don't know about the air. pump the balloon I can picture uhuh but. I don't know what that bike pump did it. blew up the balloon yeah and if you look.

at the Kazam machine it's it looks. almost like a a te lounge chair that. hasn't been finished yet exactly exactly. it's dancing right along the line of a. wicker wheelchair so I'm not a big fan. of it yeah like I would have come in. like a dummy and said you're trying to. design a chair with this thing look at. it just sit in it that's right you got. your chair but they call that the Kazam. machine as a reference to Alakazam. because you would put in like plywood. and glue and something magically. different would appear out with they. exclamation point after Kazam not after.

machine that's right although they. should have used two and been like Kazam. machine well that would conjure. something very deadly so I guess so so. like I said they were pretty broke and. um Charles ended up taking a job at MGM. designing sets I believe could not for. life of me find out what what films he. actually worked on um but while there he. was not happy about that he wrote to a. friend that all hope for the future is. lost but I get a regular paycheck um so.

he was also taking materials that he. found from his work back home too to use. in their home studio but he also made a. I think a lifelong friend in director. Billy Wilder yeah uh and great yeah. Billy Wilder isn't he uh Chad our. director from the stuff you should know. TV show's favorite director oh is he I. think Chad said the apartment is his. favorite movie of all time it's a great. one that's what uh our pal Scott ochman.

chose for movie Crush okay yeah there. you go so yeah one one of the great. movies and Billy Wilder did all kinds of. great movies you had me at Sunset. Boulevard yeah exactly so the E Shay is. the reason Billy Wilder figures into it. aside from like wow there's the name. drop right there um the E Shay which is. a very famous um well Shay Lounge decked. out in leather with like a pillow to go. under your calves and everything it's to. me uh it looks like um what your um.

psychologists would use while they gave. you a gynecological exam it's like a. cross between a couch and your shrink's. office and an exam table in in your. doctor's office oh well just a word of. advice if you're psychologist is trying. to give you a gical gical exam that's. exit stage left quickly yeah so uh yes. thank you for taking my joke and turning. it really. dark well you know just want to make. sure. everyone understood clearly but the.

reason Billy Wilder inspired this the a. shay is that um this he he would take. naps on sets and apparently there was. one that that um Charles Z witnessed. where Billy Wilder was taking a nap on a. 6X 12 in plank that was um stood up on. two saw horses that's where he was. napping that's no good no so Charles was. like I need to help my friend here all. right uh I think that's a good time for. a break you got Billy Wilder asleep in. the corner. one of those.

curvy psychologist Shades no this one's. straight it's not the other one the. curvy one's the L shet oh really cuz I. saw the uh the shades was the curvy one. no there's two one is the curvy one is. called Lush shetes the E Shades the. original e Shades is like it looks like. one of their like aluminum group leather. upholstered um chairs but laid out. essentially flat Oh Billy Wilder should. have stuck around telling you my my. description of it was like.

spoton it in my head though it made more. sense for the curvy one your description. yeah I guess so if you wanted to be. really. comfortable all right we'll take a break. and we'll be right. [Music]. back learning stuff with Joshua and. stuff you should.

[Music]. [Music]. know all right so World War II rolls. around and this was a bit of a shift for. for everybody in the world probably uh. but certainly for the uh e family um. Southern California is very was and. still is very big in defense. manufacturing and the military said hey.

this plywood stuff is really something. have you seen this plywood we like to. you know it's lightweight it's it's you. know can be bent in two different. directions I hear if you have a cassam. machine and we're into it and they knew. a guy named Wendell Scott an old friend. of Charles's who was a Navy doctor uh. they got together for a visit he saw. this Kazam machine and he said wait a. minute we've been using these metal leg. splints uh for war and these things are. no good uh that they're not good for.

protection in the field we need metal. for other things and we think that you. might be able to or I think you might be. able to build some better wooden splints. out of bending plywood yeah so that's. exactly what they did they recruited a a. friend that Charles had made at MGM a. theater designer named Margaret Harris. and together with them and um and tenza. they're pretty much their benefactor by. this point in Los Angeles they created. um a wooden splint for the US Navy that.

was lightweight it had um strategic. holes in it that made it extra. lightweight but also you could run. straps through to strap the leg to the. splint um they were stackable very very. important so it was mass-producible um. it was extremely mobile it was. lightweight but it also looked kind of. nice I mean as far as leg splints go. it's an attractive leg splint yeah it. was called the transportation egg splint. egg splint oh my Lord Transportation. eggs benedict uh leg splint they made.

5,000 the Navy ordered 5,000 of these. things so all of a sudden they had a. little money coming in yeah cuz at $10. per that's what they charged which they. could have that'd be a million dollars a. million dollar order that's a lot of. dough and that's not my math I just went. ahead and converted it to today's. dollars that's what I oh okay I was. about to say oh boy here we go 5,000. time 10 is a. million uh so such money that they were.

able to form a company uh called the. plywood I'm sorry the ply formed wood. company uh they had a little office in. Venice Beach at the time and they sold. that thing they didn't want to be in. that business really so they built it. and they sold it to a company based out. a mission called Evans products Charles. worked there for a little while uh. headed up the molded plywood Division. and then the big big change in their. life came in. 1943 when they opened up what they call. called 901 uh which was their office.

it's still there today at 901 now it's. Abbott Kenny Boulevard back then it was. West Washington Boulevard in Venice. gotcha so yeah the the the leg splint. thing was not just a little boondoggle. we went on the reason it was important. was they made a bunch of contexts they. got a lot of business experience they. got a little money and they essentially. that's that's what gave them the. foundation to to move up from being. broke theater designers who were just. kind of work in their apartment to.

legitimate furniture designers who now. had their own business and office yeah I. mean they got equipment too and. materials they had they were pretty set. up there at 901 and um if you watch the. documentary or just know about 901 it. was a uh it was a bit of a kind of a. crazy Wonderland to work at um some of. the designers there said it was like. working at Disneyland it was fun there. weren't uh sort of regular routines. there weren't stuffy staff meetings uh.

it was just one of those places where. you know long before you know every tech. office in the world was like let's have. a ping pong table and you know Skittles. all over the place man I love Skittles. they had a sort of classy version of. that in 1943 which was not how offices. worked back then even creative offices. yeah as we'll see one of the things. they're also known for is um they made a. a line of toys and um the reason they. also kind of for into toys is because um.

at least to Charles but I think also to. Ray as well Charles often like gets the. quotes but they they were in such sync. that I assume in a lot of cases Ray. probably felt at least similar if not. the same but in this instance Charles. had some quote about um how play is. actually serious business um that that's. the kind of thing that unlocks curiosity. just doing an activity simply for the. activity sake just kind of resets the. brain and the mind so I'm not at all. surprised to hear that their office was.

was like that because that's just what. they seem to do they would just do stuff. learn by doing all the time yeah another. reason he they went into things like. toys and then later film making as we'll. see is he didn't as great as his. reputation was he didn't want to be. chair guy sure plus he really liked toys. yeah but he was so good at chairs right. well that's that's the thing like when. you hear the word em like almost. probably 80% of the time if not more the. next word is chair yeah because the.

chairs that they designed are so iconic. and the first one that they hit the. market with so they opened the office in. 1943 by 1946 they had a chair in mass. production at first with that Evans. products but eventually Evans is like we. don't really know what we're doing we're. more the leg splint producers maybe you. guys should talk to Herman Miller yeah. and that's what they did they came up. with the E chair wood the ECW nowadays. it's called the lcw the lounge chair. wood and it's molded bent plywood on a.

plywood base and it is gorgeous and it's. actually super comfortable without a. lick of padding on it yeah it's uh you. know they figured out if you if you mold. something just right to where the human. body can function well in it and they. were they were into form but they they. were very much into function they did. not want some weird fancy looking thing. that's not fun or comfortable to sit on. ever yeah Ray had a a quote and I assume. Charles probably felt the same way is.

that what works is better than what. looks good the looks can change but what. works works and there's a ton of wisdom. in there that was actually Ray that's. what I said oh oh oh you okay I didn't. get the joke I made a reference to the. joke where I I went on some horrible. tangent earlier about yeah I got I was. about to do it again so thank you for. saving everyone so Herman Miller you. mentioned uh this is a big deal because. uh the Herman Miller company out of. Michigan was uh great at making.

furniture they were producing modernist. Furniture uh oh boy did did we already. have a big mistake with Charles Nelson I. don't know I guess may maybe I said. Charles all right well George Nelson is. who we're talking about uh very iconic. designer uh in fact in my little Studio. here I'm looking at a George Nelson. clock which one uh the one that is. rounded wood mhm uh yeah like the balls. on the end the ball clock uh I mean it's.

it's it's like a someone took a round. ball made of wood and then sliced the. first uh third of it off and that's a. clock face I got you okay yeah we have. the eye clock the eye clock I think I. know which one you're talking about it. looks like an eye and the the like the. numbers it doesn't have numbers but you. know like the the little lines that go. to the numbers it has those but they're. in some crazy weird spread out positions. but they still keep time it's really.

amazing but yeah George Nelson's very. well known for creating a lot of super. 50s clocks yeah I don't think any of his. clocks had numbers if I'm not mistaken. because he was kind of like you don't. need a number if you know what a clock. looks like and how to read it yeah uh. and you know that's another reason this. one's fun for us because both of us love. this stuff yeah so for George Nelson go. look up um Nelson clocks look up Nelson. bubble lamps probably seen those before. the Nelson platform bench and then the. swag leg desk those are some of his best.

designs but in addition to being a. designer himself he also he was one of. those A+ people who recruited other A+. people to work with him and one of the. the groups of A+ people he he recruited. was were the em and they started working. with George Nelson at Herman Miller. essentially as like independent. contractors just probably exclusively. sending their designs to Herman Miller. to be produced that's right and could. you imagine if we didn't have little.

slip-ups we would have never gotten a. Charles Nelson Riley sidebar man you. just found the Silver Lining to that to. that thousand. emails so uh and that's a good lesson to. people to never stop the podcast right. in the middle to email us a correction. sometimes we catch things uh so they're. working together now they're working for. Herman Miller um this is a sort of a. match made in heaven because they had. the the smarts and the experience to. like Mass produce and pump out these. great designs on Herman Miller's side.

they have these amazing designers now. working for them and they like you said. that you know from the beginning they. were trying to create these sort of. simple stylish but you know practical. pieces uh and as we'll see you know. things that would end up going in in. schools and bus stations and stuff like. that and airport so if you go to an. airport today and you see like that long. row of chairs that you just sit in while. you're waiting at the gate and they're. all all connected by metal they have a. leather back a leather seat and two you.

know arms mhm that's a that's a e design. they're um the air I can't remember the. um sling group chair is what they're. called and they're still in production. so if it's not an actual legitimate em. yeah um set of chairs it's a knockoff of. it that's how ubiquitous their stuff is. it it was like everywhere like most of. the stuff we're talking about if you. can't bring it to mind I will bet that. if you go look it up oh probably seen it. before yeah I mean their stuff is either.

literally all over the place or just in. spirit in in a lot of places just. ubiquitous in America yeah for sure. maybe elsewhere but I don't I don't get. to travel much I know I haven't traveled. that much either it's always for tour uh. for Ray's side she was uh amazing artist. a great painter um she ended up working. you know in uh adding a lot of fun and. Design Elements to the things that were. happening um if you watch a documentary.

you definitely get the sense that she uh. she's the one that kind of held it all. together she had a great attention to. detail um so like as far as the company. you know functioning as a as a company. and not just a funhouse of of like kids. designing things you know as far as the. staff goes she kind of kept things on. the rails and also provided a lot of fun. and color and textural detail and you. know if you watch interviews you know.

with them over the years on YouTube. She's always standing behind Charles of. course and she doesn't say much on. camera it's always him and his name is. the one that's up there and it gets a. little frustrating but it was the fact. of the matter is it was just a time in. the 1950s where even though Charles. would say things like anything I can do. ray can do better than me yeah um it's. just how it was then she took a bit of a. backseat unfortunately. yeah and yeah there's no other way to. put it that's just how it was there's a.

a very famous clip of them on a NBC show. called home that was hosted by the. actress Arlene Francis and in this clip. it's like I think N9 or 11 minute like. segment on the show they actually debut. yeah it is they debuted um one of their. famous chairs which we'll talk about in. the second the E lounge chair but um. arleene Francis is even like almost caty. dismissive of Ray. and Ry is just sitting there like has. has to have a big smile on her face.

because that's what you're expected to. do but she was just sidelined just. pushed to the side in this interview um. and despite yeah over the years like. Charles is being like no this this this. woman's not behind me she's right next. to me like we're equals we're Partners. we do this together Society was just. like that's that's not true stoping yeah. she was kind of like I'm paraphrasing. but the overall Vibe was in the brief. time she was allowed to speak was tell. me how you support your husband kind of. thing exactly yeah oh so they're making.

all kinds of things collapsible sofas um. fiberglass shell chairs those were very. very famous if you look up their um and. I think this one won a a design uh award. for Moma as well in 1950 their molded. fiberglass. armchair uh look that thing up and. you'll say oh that that chair yeah the. one that I've sat in in every school. cafeteria. at the bus station like if you see like.

a seat that's plastic and kind of molded. to fit your form that was the that was. the E fiberglass armchair yeah. absolutely and again uh s's upholstery. uh they would end up using leather as. we'll see here in a second but um most. of this early stuff was like aluminum. molded fiberglass and don't forget. plywood plastic plywood wire mesh stuff. like that yeah which to me I that's what. I don't like about their design it has. too much of an industrial flavor which.

is exactly what they're going for they. were trying to show like you can you can. come up with beautiful design that's. affordable using mass-produced you know. materials and so that's what they were. doing but it just looks a little. industrial to me and then it has that. veneer of like 50 years which makes. Industrial Products like somehow. creepy so some of their actual vintage. stuff I'm not crazy about but there's a. really cute set mment on Antiques Road. show if you want to see um one of the E.

storage units one of their earliest ones. if you look up uh Herman Miller storage. unit Fort Worth um there's like a five. or six minute segment where this woman. is told that something she paid $15 for. is worth like. $20,000 oh wow I love Antiques Road Show. yeah it's a great show uh and another. thing that was great about their designs. with these chairs in particular is that. they were stackable I think they may. have learned from that uh egg splint mhm. that if you make something stackable.

that's that's very handy if you have to. clear a cafeteria for a school play or. dodgeball right exactly um so that was. their their genuinely affordable break. through and they actually kind of from. what I can tell left molded plywood. largely behind that's not entirely true. but they really went you know full bore. on molded fiberglass and then plastic CU. it really did fulfill a lot of the. service their purposes they wanted. including affordability like that first.

chair of theirs Time magazine named it. the chair of the century before the. century was even halfway through like. that's how much of a splash it made and. they were making it for like the average. person to be able to buy but it was. still in today's dollars like a. $525 like single chair you know what I. mean so it wasn't exactly affordable. when they started to get into fiberglass. and plastic then they were making chairs. that the average person could afford I. wonder if like when they made that. announcement how many chair designers.

and Builders were just like well what's. the point I know and just threw their. chair into the fireplace they're like. I'll guess I'll go into toys damn it. they're into toys. too so you said they moved away from. plywood but not before uh this iconic. chair that you uh mentioned briefly. earlier that's why I corrected myself uh. the E Lounge which was molded plywood it. was fabric the very first one that was. introduced on that show was uh Rosewood.

plywood and black leather and this is. the one that made them famous it came. with an ottoman or I guess I don't even. know if you had to buy it separately. back then but it was. uh it's a gorgeous chair I mean they. they're the ones they sit on on Shark. Tank uh they. are copied heavily um I imagine the. knockoffs are um not nearly as good but. I I don't own one but I've always wanted. one and I think one day I might have to. splash down for one there's this one.

that I covet um that was owned by. Orville. Redenbacher which just somehow makes it. even more like midcentury amazing do you. imagine eating popcorn in that thing. watching a movie so yeah there's this. guy who uh is like you know he. refurbished an atomic ranch or it's it's. on the magazine the internet magazine. Atomic Ranch but that kind of like. mid-century Space Age house he he. refurbished and he has that that oral. Redenbacher knockoff it's actually a. knockoff of the E Lounge he has it and.

he said they eat popcorn in it amazing I. think so too and I don't know why I. don't even know how I first heard about. it but I covet that particular chair. it's great you know one day Josh I'm. gonna really root for you to get that. chair thank you I can't wait till that. day. starts uh let's talk about that chair a. little bit oh sure oh okay well here I. go so um the chair itself was different. it was mulp plywood like you said but it.

was upholstered in leather like I think. also you said but it was meant to be. exceedingly comfortable um and the way. that Charles put it is supposed to um. have the warm receptive look of a. well-used first baseman's mitt which I. sat at them definitely gets that across. no they're super duper comfortable. especially if you remind yourself like. I'm actually sitting on upholstered. plywood here right history they have. become so iconic and so associated with. the um the mid-century modern aesthetic.

and in particular it's almost like a. signal or a code for someone who is. powerful Captain of industry um like a. like a mover and a Shaker of that era if. you're doing like a period piece so much. so that when um is it Matthew weer who. is the showrunner for um madman Wier. Wier V viners slav um he uh he said. we're not using the EM Lounge in our. show it's just such a cliche it shows up. everywhere and madmin is like of course.

it's going to show up in madmin so he he. very wisely was like nope we're not. doing that but he went with a different. em set the E uh aluminum Group which is. equally cool but in a different way yeah. yeah I definitely like the other one. better but this was more of an office. chair uh you've seen it before as well. uh no padding on the arms but it was uh. it's it's like a ribbed uh ribbed. leather I promise you look this thing up. and you'll go oh that thing exactly that.

held Don Draper's butt for however many. years and also I mean depending on how. hip your workplace is you might have a. knockoff of this in your office like. it's really that's something that. happens in design a lot somebody comes. up with an iconic design and then. everybody rips it off that's just the. the the part of the industry yeah all. right I feel like that's another break. point yay oh yeah. all right uh hepcat we're going to be. right back after this and Josh will uh.

pick up after the break with. [Music]. toys Lear stuff with Joshua. and stuff you should. know.

[Music]. all right Chuck let's talk toys CU like. I said they considered play serious. business because of what it could do to. unlock you and they were playful people. for sure yeah um before we talk about. toys let's put that on the back burner. for a second and talk about their. architecture work cuz remember Charles. was a crypto pseudo architect for a. while an outlaw architect I guess yeah.

and this was an age where you could work. with other amazing designers and. Architects and remember they were. friends already with Aeros saronin um so. they worked with him on at least one. house called case study house number. nine and that's a pretty famous house. but it is nothing compared to case study. house number8 which is in fact the the. house that um Ray and Charles eam. designed and ended up living in yeah the. case study hous is we'll say what it is.

but I've had this on my list for like 10. years to do oh it's so neat Yi took me. there it's beautiful but what to that. house yeah it's really neat uh but the. case study program was a program. sponsored by art and architecture. magazine uh where they built these. houses I think there were 36 designs um. not just the em I I'll I'll sort of. Architects over the course of like 21.

years uh they built 26 of these houses. and 18 of them are still Asis um a. handful have been destroyed which is. awful yeah uh and maybe more awful a. handful of them when you look up like. the list says something like you know uh. renovated uh I'm paraphrasing country. renovated so much that you can't even. tell it's what it was gotcha yeah for. sure uh but we're going to do one on the. case study houses in that program it it.

was pretty amazing but out of this came. case study 8 where like you said the E. lived in the Pacific Palisades uh it was. initially called the bridge house. because it was going to be uh can. delevered out over this big grassy. meadow toward the sea because you could. see the ocean there MH and Charles at. one point reconsidered along with Ry and. they said hey we're doing that thing. that you're not supposed to do in. architecture which is take this. beautiful area and just like plunk a. house down in the middle of it and he.

fell in love with that Meadow and he. decided to change the complete design of. it instead of can delivering it out over. this Meadow make the meadow this big. beautiful front yard basically and they. came up with they scrapped the bridge. house and came up with the the design. for number eight which was this very. beautiful square flat roofed colorful. amazing house yeah so apparently Ray was. a fan of mandrian and you can tell. because these are two giant squares made.

of glass and steel and then they have. panels in some places where you might. have a window um and those panels would. be colored like yellow or blue or red or. white like a mandrian painting um but. they're they they were the ones I don't. know if this house is the one that. introduced it it's possible um the idea. of like soaring ceilings of huge open. space floor plans um it was like a it's. a modern. Masterpiece but one of the things that's. so great about it is that um Ry.

decorated it through to the hilt with. art objects um gifts from friends um. paintings sculptures folk art weavings. everything you can think of it was just. such a busy room there's like um leopard. skin rugs and just weird stuff. everywhere and this was entirely counter. to the trend at the time which was if. you're modernist you're also minimalist. they're in you can't extract one from. the other and she did and that was a.

huge contribution to modernism because a. lot of people are turned off including. me are turned off by minimalism like. can't stand it it's an awful awful way. to live I think and she was like hey you. can be modernist and not and not be. minimalist you know so um she's credited. with that as being probably her greatest. contribution solo contribution to. modernism is the the design choices she. made in that house yeah with Whimsical. and warm I love it it's pretty amazing. uh like you said they also did case uh.

study house number nine on the same lot. as number8 uh inza himself would live in. number nine and he also designed his old. buddy Billy Wilder's house he said hey I. love that uh that flat board that you. gussied up for me uh can you make me a. flat house and he said sure and so this. house in Beverly Hills where Billy. Wilder and his uh wife Audrey young. lived is another gorgeous you know flat. roofed sort of square boxy uh brilliant.

design yeah it's very cool and they also. planted eucalyptus trees all around it. and I think um at least on one of them. there's swings that you can swing on. when you're there when we when we went. we didn't we just showed up we didn't. make reservations and there was no one. there so we had the place to ourselves. although we weren't able to go inside. but you know we peaked in the windows. and all that it's all windows you see. the whole thing I know you really could. it was neat though it's definitely worth. visiting Chuck I think you'd love it oh. totally there are so many things in La.

that I was either unaware of or too. broke to do that um I try to do those. things when I go back now nice uh so Ry. is busy also working uh on side gigs. designing uh textiles and fabrics and. patterns uh a couple of her most famous. ones uh that Waverly products picked up. is called C things uh sea things which. is Whimsical and fun just like she was. little star fish and sort of amoeba like. things uh and then she was very famous.

for something you still see a lot today. called the EMS dots uh which is this. design that are dots with interconnected. lines it's simple stuff but iconic yes. if you're into West Elm stuff you have. seen this design before or some version. of it for sure yeah um so uh Toys Toys I. think it's time to talk about toys in. particular they had one called the toy. yeah and it was a a set of like um these. vinyl panels that you would uh frame.

with dowels and then connect to other uh. panels with other dowels and they were. either square or triangle I think. they're about 3T um across and um the. the whole the whole point of it was you. can build all sorts of structures out of. it you can use it to build the wings of. a theater and pretend you're on a stage. like it was it you were intended to use. your imagination even though in the. instructions it shows you some ideas and. how to build some stuff but it was a a. toy for everybody like for all ages that.

was I think the first one they came up. with yeah that was in 51 uh they had the. house of cards as well uh which is uh. produced in 52 it's a deck of cards the. patterns on them are beautiful um all. the cards are different things it's not. like just a single pattern deck uh but. they had notches it's a house it's you. build it uh so they had Naches so you. could build it into these very imsy. looking Square structures uh the way the. nachos are built and I was like I'm.

gonna buy one of those for my old pal. Josh oh thanks I went to uh it's not. coming don't worry okay uh I went to. Etsy an original pack is 3,200 bucks. so hey man that's a lot of money for a. deck of cards yeah it is so okay well. then you can get me one of their musical. Towers instead ah yes uh they were very. well known for this being in their. office is still there today. uh it is a vertical xylophone yeah and. you drop a ball down it yeah like plink.

and yeah and and it just sort of bounces. its way down hitting different notes on. the way down which is just super fun. yeah and all the notes are rearrangeable. too which is just sweet there's only. three of them in existence so I presume. it might even be more than a house of. cards toy you can buy me that so in. addition to toys to um fiture the EMS. were they were just creative creative. people through and through and they saw. design everywhere where they had a. collection of almost a quarter of a. million slides and they would create.

these slideshow or multimedia. presentations ju supposing like a shell. with like a a um Interstate overpass and. be like look at how similar this is um. they were just into all that kind of. stuff and so they found a lot of. fulfillment in a like another phase kind. of like the end phase of their career. together um which was coming up with um. movies exhibits. and presentations essentially yeah so. they found work um in a few different.

ways uh they ended up being sponsored um. or I guess hired by corporations uh. notably IBM was one of them to create. you know kind of industrial films here. and there multimedia projects it wasn't. like you know how you can get your hand. caught in a a printer or anything like. that uh all kinds of different stuff. very creative things um one of the most. famous films they made probably the most. was famous MH um it's called powers of. tin uh they did a prototype film in 1968.

called a rough sketch for a proposed. film dealing with the powers of tin and. the relative size of things in the. universe uh shot at Miami in black and. white and then made a final version they. worked on this thing for a long time. it's based on a a book by uh Dutch a. Dutch teacher named Keys bokeh called. Cosmic view colon the universe in 40. jumps but the final version they shot on. the uh shores of Lake Eerie I'm sorry. boy I almost screwed that one up man uh. Lake Michigan in.

Chicago uh the final version was in 77. it was in color it was called powers of. tin colon. col a film dealing with the relative. size of things in the universe and what. that all means is they start with a. simple overhead shot of this couple next. to Lake Michigan having a picnic and. then it just keeps zooming back by. powers of 10 narrated the whole time by. by a gentleman uh MIT physics Professor. named Philip Morrison M and Cameron Crow.

the director very much inspired by Billy. Wilder he opens Jerry Maguire with a. very similar thing and I guarantee you. he took this from the EM project oh yeah. I'm sure like it was yeah it's it's just. neat and if you think of it you're like. yeah of course it's that's like somebody. was going to stumble on this sooner or. later but I don't know how much that is. just because they put it out there. initially but they they would zoom out I. think all the way until it was like 10.

to the 10th power or 15th power. something like that um that so the. entire known universe was encompassed. and then zoomed all the way in back to. that guy laying on a picnic blanket in. Chicago uh and then threw his skin into. uh like a proton in a carbon atom I. think um yeah super cool it's it's N9. minutes on YouTube it's very very much. worth watching yeah you could watch it. 10 times in an hour and a half if you. wanted to. yeah but it is very cool and it is on.

YouTube and it is definitely worth. watching and that's definitely what they. were known for but they made I think 125. films and like I said they made exhibits. for museums some of which are still. around right now um they just did all. sorts of really cool things like if they. had an idea they would explore any. medium that they thought best got it. across they were just not afraid of. taking risks and um I didn't realize. that about them um I I didn't know. anything about until I met Yumi and then. I started to learn about you know. Furniture Design and all that and then.

from researching this I I got to know. them better and I just I just think. they're I admire them a lot more than I. did before I started researching this. just because they were so um varied in. in their Pursuits I just think they're. neat yeah absolutely uh and you know it. was a great love story on one hand but. we do need to just sort of mention um. kind of the darker side uh which is when. I was talking to you about this you made. a joke about like people buried in their.

basement or something not that dark okay. uh but you know when you run a design. concern uh your name is the one that's. on it um sometimes it was Charles and. Ray usually just Charles but there was. they had a whole team of people that. worked on this stuff uh these young. designers that worked um for them that. you know they never got any credit and. they they kind of talked about that some. people felt EXP. uh some were like yeah we were exploited. but we also exploited their name because.

we worked for the hottest design firm. and it was sort of a give and take and. that's just sort of the deal you you. your name doesn't go up there if you're. on the team that creates the thing that. the person whose name is on the you know. the placard on the office door they're. they're going to get the credit still. happens a lot people are better these. days about giving credit down to staff. uh back then not so much uh and then the. other thing is Charles very very sadly. had some Affairs uh notably had a a.

pretty pretty heavy love affair with a. woman named Judith Wexler who he you. know he he was so far into it that he. was like I want to sell 901 I want to uh. get divorced I want to move to New York. I want to marry you I want to have a. baby and she broke it off because she. said she couldn't do that to Ray uh cuz. they were friends as well man the middle. Century yeah you know Ray knew about the. stuff it was a time where divorce wasn't.

as popular and it was tough for she. apparently dealt with it very privately. but you know they stuck together until. the end yeah man yeah wow I didn't know. about that either yeah but worth. mentioning um until you know Charles. died in 1978 yeah something sweet about. that is um Ry died exactly a decade. later on August 21st 19. 1988 um and she spent that decade. basically archiving and organizing and.

documenting all the work they did. together and then I guess she realized. or felt like her work was done and said. uh Ray. out yeah she passed from cancer he died. of a heart attack on a Consulting trip. in St. Louis and uh you know they were very. Beloved the people he didn't have any. employees that sounded like they didn't. absolutely love them I think some of. them were a little salty about credit. here and there but to a person they were. all like it was a magical time they were.

magical people and it was just a great. thing all the way around well I'm. definitely I'm glad we included the dark. side then you can't why watch that stuff. you know it's true um you got anything. else Chuck I got nothing else look. forward to a case study house podcast. okay podcast or short stuff I think I. think we could probably stretch that one. out to a full no problem because hey. what's better than sitting around and uh. listening to a show describe the way. something looks that's right let's do it.

uh and since Chuck and I just negotiated. whether that episode would be a short. stuff or a full length episode it's time. for listener. mail all right I'm going to call this uh. a reminder to sandwich this is from. Aaron Burke hey guys recently found your. show I've gotten into it I started to. listen to the most recent and then I. thought well maybe I should have the. whole experience and start at the. beginning uh these early episodes are a. little unsatisfying because I know the. finely tuned show that you've achieved. after 1500 episodes my question is what.

would you recommend for new listeners. start at the beginning work backwards go. to episode 177 as of now I'm starting at. day one and that is from Aaron Burke and. Aaron uh I let Aaron know which episode. this is going to be on so he could hear. it but uh what we recommend is. sandwiching that is listen to the latest. one and then listen to the earliest one. and then work forwards and backwards. until you meet in the middle mhm uh for.

the reasons of compare and contrast it's. fun to hear the show now and how much. has changed but also you don't want to. miss out on announcements and live show. stuff and you know changes that happen. although there's really not many no no. there's no changes whatsoever these days. but we think the sandwich method is. pretty fun yeah it's it's been the. recommended version or method for the. whole time I think essentially right. yeah but you know do it how you want. that's what that's what we think sure. yeah to each their own right yeah so um.

who is that uh Aaron Burke Aaron however. you listen to the entire catalog of. stuff you should know we hope you enjoy. every single minute of it and if you. want to be like Aaron and get in touch. with us and ask us for some advice of. some sort do it you can send it in an. email to stuff podcast iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts iHeart.

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