Operation Paul Bunyan | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck. And it's just us. and that's okay because we can support. one another and ourselves. We're grown. men and we feel good about things, especially us. Well, not especially, but. equally with us. And this is stuff you. should know. I mean, you told me uh you. sent me a text very early that said,

"Put on your big boy pants today.". >> Yeah, cuz Jerry's not showing up. >> Yeah. So, I got them out. My breaches. >> Yeah. Are they green jeans? >> Oh, I've got on green cords. >> No, >> I do. >> These were kind of my favorites, actually. These forest green cords. Great for this time of year. >> I don't remember those. I remember some. like brownish uh taupey kind of shiny. taupe ones. Am I making that up?

>> No, I have I have uh cords of many. colors much like Joseph. >> Are they the thick whales or the thin. whales? >> Uh the thins. I don't get into the thick. stuff anymore. That was 90s Chuck. probably. >> Yeah, but I'll bet they're going to make. a comeback. >> I bet you. Okay, I think we should start. talking about this because we probably. have some uh nonregular. uh listeners uh who have military. backgrounds who are like, "What the hell. is this?" who want to hear about. Operation Paul Bunan, which is the point.

of all this. And I'm guessing just from. the title, there's probably a lot of. people in the military who who know what. we're talking about already. It seems to. be a fairly widespread um widely known. incident that took place in 1976. Um, we're just going to call it an. incident at the DMV. >> DMZ. >> That was totally unintentional. An. incident at the DMZ. >> That's where we're going to start out. calling it. We'll eventually maybe. refine that over time, but we should.

probably talk about what the DMZ is in. the first place, right? >> Yeah. And by the way, I'm looking real. quick because I could have sworn this. probably came from someone, but I. usually make a note and I'm not seeing. that. But I am seeing that Pop-Tarts. came from Nelson Reynolds. So, sorry for. that, Nelson. Sorry, Nelson. Haha. >> But, uh, yeah, the DMZ, I guess we. should set up just sort of the the deal. between North Korea and South Korea and. the United States post World War. >> I. >> uh was the Soviets and the Americans got. together and said, "All right, Korea and.

Korea, obviously uh got involved and. said, "We're going to be two nations. Uh, let's confuse everybody and call the. communist North Korean side the. Democratic People's Republic of Korea, >> right? and called the Democratic South. Korean side just the Republic of Korea. >> And if you've ever heard of the 38th. parallel, that's the famous dividing. line between these two. >> Yeah. And North Korea and South Korea. got divided after World War II because. there was a power vacuum and the. communists were fighting in the north.

and they were fighting the USfriendly. South Koreans and uh the North Koreans. were like, "This can't stand. We want. the whole peninsula." and they invaded. and the Korean War broke out like you. said and it lasted for three years. I. always thought it was Americans who were. fighting in Korea but it turns out there. were plenty of American troops, mostly. American troops, but they were part of a. UN command um that was actually fighting. the North along with the South Koreans. >> Yeah, I think it was like 90% American. forces and uh you said it lasted three.

years. I think the Korean War is one of. those that technically never ended. >> True. officially because I mean that's. kind of one of those nitpicky trivia. questions. >> That's a good one though. >> Uh that you know there was never an. official treaty ending the war. They. came to a truce or an armistice uh. because of a stalemate basically after 3. years. But I think you know on the books. the Korean War never technically ended. >> Yeah, that's that's my understanding. too. Well, good point. >> So one of the big things about this.

armistice agreement was that it was like. okay you guys we need some separation. here. and they literally separated North. Korea from South Korea. Like you said, the dividing line runs roughly along the. 38th parallel, but on either side of. that border of North and South Korea, there's a buffer zone, the demilitarized. zone, the DMZ I was referring to before, um I think it's 2.4 miles wide total, 1.2 miles on either side. And that is. like effectively the de facto border. between north and south. No one's.

supposed to come into that no man's. zone, no man's land, the DMZ. But. inside the DMZ, there's a little tiny. village called Panmu Jam. And I know of. that from Billy Joel. >> Yeah, I knew he was going to come up. >> That was it. And then some of the other. um Korean town names that came up like. Kong and all this, I'm like, how do I. know all these? How do they sound. familiar? And then I realized watching. MASH with my dad. >> Oh yeah. And it's this little tiny.

militarized. um spot inside the demilitarized zone. And it's it's where North Korea and. South Korea um actually come together. physically can come together in this uh. what's called the JSA, the joint. security area. >> Yeah. So if they over the years have to. to meet to negotiate anything, that's. where they meet. Uh that's where the. governments go. There's a very uh famous. bridge there separating the two, the. bridge of no return. And it's very. dramatic if you look at pictures of it.

>> It's literally like, you know, on one. side is one thing, on the other side is. the other. And that's where they do. prisoner exchanges and stuff like that. >> And these days, you know, it it's well. largely because of this incident. I. think it it's not the same as it was. back then. >> No. >> Um it's very separate back then. The. joint security area was, you know, there. were it was jointly patrolled like, you. know, North Koreans and South Korean. soldiers and American soldiers were. patrolling the area at the same time. There was face-to-face contact. Uh they.

would try to intimidate one another. They would, you know, curse at one. another, maybe spit at one another. Uh. the Americans would play hopscotch on. the bridge. The North Koreans would, you. know, drive a truck really fast toward. them and slam on the brakes. they would. sneak up and bang on their uh checkpoint. barracks at night and stuff like that. It was crazy to think that these kind of. shenanigans were going on without any. further, you know, sort of uh war. breaking out. They all kind of seemly.

took it in stride. >> Well, that's what that's what their. orders were. the the UN command troops. and the Americans in particular had. specific orders to like if you had to. defend yourself physically because you. were getting beat up, okay, but you did. not shoot. You had to be shot at to to. draw your sidearm. And um that was the. most um powerful weapon that anyone. patrolling the the joint security area. had. They were often um outfitted with. axe handles, maybe batons, and that was.

about it. So the Americans had strict. orders not to to take the bait and North. Korean troops had essentially strict. orders to provoke the Americans into. attacking so that they could start a war. again and it would be the Americans. fault. >> Exactly. Uh and this came largely from. uh the guy in charge. I mean you know it. came from on high, I'm sure, but it was. filtered down through Captain Arthur. Bonafas. He was a Vietnam vet. He was. the JSA company commander. He was 33.

years old. He was a big dude. He was. 6'3. >> Apparently, super popular, like a father. figure as far as his his command went. >> And the camp there at JSA is named Camp. Bonafas after him. So, you may see where. this is headed. Uh, but he, you know, he. believed in um. standing your ground but not taking the. bait like you said, like he wanted big. guys down there. He wanted to kind of. intimidate. Uh but the orders were. always to back off if if it came to.

blows and sometimes it would like you. know you could get beat up or something. and it would not escalate further which. is just crazy to think about. >> It is it's hard to to imagine. Um you. said that that uh Bonafas was into um. intimidating without you know doing it. like just being physically intimidating. Yeah. Um, if you were assigned to patrol. JSA, this was a really, really high. stakes area. Still is today. Um, Bill. Clinton toured it in uh the '9s and went.

as far as out under the bridge of no. return. And he said later that it that. um, Pamujam is the scariest place on. Earth. That's a president saying that. He's probably been to some scary places. and at least knows about them. So, that. really says quite a bit. So, if you're. assigned to this area, it's a big deal. And so, you had to be over 6 feet tall, but you also had to be um laid-back by. nature and um rather coolheaded like. even when provoked. Like, they really.

tested the people who were assigned. there. >> Yeah. They'd walk up and they'd slap you. and see what you did. >> They would apparently while they were. interviewing you that you'd have no. idea. They'd just start shouting at you. out of the out of nowhere to see how you. responded. >> Were they really? >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. There's a really that's a great um. chance to shout out. There's a Adivist. article called Axes of Evil. >> written by Josh Dean and it's it's a. really great detailed look at at this. whole thing that we're talking about. today. >> That would be axe in this case, right?

>> Yep. Very clever. >> Bit of a uh what do you call it? It's. we're recording early so I can't think. of the word. >> A foreshadowing. >> Yeah, maybe that's it. >> A play on words. pun. >> No, foreshadowing is probably it. >> Okay. >> I think people are probably concerned. because I couldn't think of. foreshadowing. >> I couldn't think of chemistry the other. day and it drove me crazy. >> Oh man. >> Yeah. >> Aging is real. >> Yeah. >> Uh and a privilege as they say. Uh so.

before this incident that we're about to. talk about there there was one example. we should mention uh when North Korean. uh troops were kind of musing the hair. of a soldier named William Henderson and. he did not take it well. Um I guess he. was uh into his hair or something. >> He got mad, took a swing and got a I. guess a throat chop or something and got. a busted larynx and such that Bonafas. wrote his wife and said, "Our mission. here is to take the verbal abuse, the. kicking, the shoving, but to not let it.

go any further." Major Henderson lost. his cool and blew it. It's a natural. reaction, but he should have known. better. >> Yeah. And it was a big deal. So, I also. saw that Henderson was provoked by a. journalist who spat at him when. Henderson stood up. The journalist hit. him and then finally Henderson hit him. back and then all of a sudden a bunch of. North Korean troops jumped on him. But. the fact that he took the bait was a big. deal because he was a major. That means. you're a big deal at a camp already. Like you're you're fairly high up. So. him fighting back was Yeah, that was a.

big deal. >> Uh maybe an early earlyish break here. seems like a good dividing line. I think. we should we'll we'll take a break and. we'll come back and talk about the tree. that started the whole thing. >> All right.

All right. Uh Josh didn't pick up on my. bad pun of the dividing line. >> Uh what was it? >> I said it's a dividing line like you. know the 38th parallel. >> It just is so natural that I totally. missed it. >> It's also early for me too. >> I couldn't tell by the way that that. short stuff that you sent that we're. going to record later had a bunch of. puns in it and I didn't know if that was. intentional or not. >> Um I can think of one and it was. intentional. >> There were a couple. >> Okay. You got to point them out.

>> Yeah. Boy, what a what a little tease of. a whole different episode. >> You're such a tease. >> So, uh all right, now we get to the Paul. Bunan uh what what instigated the Paul. Bunan uh incident or operation, >> right? >> Uh which was this tree that you. mentioned. There was a tree. It was a. popular tree uh near the bridge of no. return. And the thing you need to know. about this tree, well, there's a few. things, but one is that it blocked the. view of the line of sight between these. two UN command checkpoints. Uh, and that.

was a big deal because you needed an. open line of sight between these. checkpoints because, you know, there. were uh, incidents of like kidnapping. and stuff like that and other. shenanigans and you just you had to have. that line of sight open. >> Yep. >> So, they said the UNCC was like, "We we. got to get rid of this tree." So, they. sent a couple of unarmed South Korean. workers down there to just sort of. figure out the best way to remove it. And the first sort of reaction was the. North Korean guards chased them away. So. that was sort of the the line in the.

sand was get out of here, get away from. that tree. >> Yeah. Apparently they tried again a. couple days later and got rained out. And then finally on August 18th, they. were like, "Okay, we're just going to go. ahead and do this." Um those first guys. got chased off. So we're going to uh. essentially assign a few men to to. escort them. I think a 15-man team went. over on August 18th led by Captain. Bonafas. And um they started pruning the tree. totally. >> to prune at this point.

>> Yeah. They're just pruning it back. They. just want to make sure that uh even. during summer they can see checkpoint. three, the loneliest outpost in the. world because like you said, it's very. dangerous to man that. So they're just. pruning it, right? And very quickly the. North Koreans came over the bridge of no. return because remember mind-bogglingly. the joint security area was open. like. the border didn't exist in the joint. security area. So, North Koreans and and. uh UN command could just go wherever. they want. So, the North Koreans show up.

at this site at the popular tree while. it's being pruned. >> and they're led by Lieutenant Pacul. He. was known as Lieutenant Bulldog by the. UN command troops because he was very. confrontational, had provoked. confrontation in the past plenty of. times. And so, he showed up. So, you. just immediately knew that this could go. south pretty quickly. Yeah. And apparently he said uh you know. they wanted to keep that tree pristine. because Kim IlSung personally planted it.

and nourished it and it's growing under. his supervision. So uh apparently or at. least they said it was a special tree. and to stand down. >> Yes. Because Kim Elsung was the he was. the first deer leader. Kim Kim Jong-un. is his grandson. >> Yeah. >> Uh yeah. And so the idea that dear. leader planted that tree, I don't know. if that's true. Um, I never saw that. I. just saw it like stated here or there. But at the very least, Pacchoul said. that, right? Yeah. I I'm not sure if I.

buy that given what we now have sort of. suspected about this being a. provocation, which we'll get to. But, uh, that sounds to me like, hey, let's. tell him that, you know, it's a special. treat. >> Yeah. like he's like pacch seemed like. the kind who would just lo load you up. on BS just to mess with you. >> Yeah. So he called for even more. reinforcements. Uh I think about 30 more. North Korean guards showed up. Uh he. ordered Captain Bonafas to stop but he. turned his back on him which I I think.

was you know a pretty big insult. >> Yeah. >> Uh on top of everything else. And uh as. the story goes, one of the American. soldiers saw uh Pac take off his wrist. uh wristwatch and put it in his pocket, which is I guess akin to like Fonza. taking off his leather jacket. >> like it's about to happen, right? >> And tried to warn Bonafas, but it was. too late by that point and Pac ordered. ordered the attack basically by saying. like I think he said kill the bastards, right? >> Yeah. I saw a 1977 Army War College.

report on the incident and that's what. they said. So I'm I'm I'm prone to. believe them. >> Yeah. >> But he said it in Korean obviously. >> Right. >> But right after that they the men. attacked and actually I saw Lieutenant. Pacchu assaulted Captain Bonafas who had. again his back to to Pacchu. >> He hit him with the karate chop in the. back of his neck and dropped Captain. Bonafas and very very sadly Captain. Bonafas never got to his feet again. Yeah. >> Um like immediately he was set upon by.

saw five to six North Korean troops just. started being beaten by them. >> and I guess the people who were um. cutting the tree had a couple of axes, these civilians and they dropped their. axes and ran and the North Korean troops. picked up the axes and here is where um. the reason that this is called the DMZ. axe incident uh begins. >> That's right. So Bonafas was bludgeoned. to death uh by these guys attacking him. And you can watch this like it's it was.

caught on film. It's it's very chaotic. You can't really get I mean it's kind of. from far away so you can't get a lot of. detail, >> right? >> Uh but you know there are still shots in. film of this uh stuff going on. So he. was bludgeoned. Uh first lieutenant Mark. Barrett was also beaten to death. He was. chased down over a retaining wall. and. you know sort of the I mean it's sad. enough as it is but Bonafas was due to. to go home uh to his wife and three kids. in 3 days. So it was made it you know. sort of especially brutal. >> Yeah. And not like for a visit like he.

this was his last three days in Korea. where he was murdered by an axe by North. Korean troops. It's almost like a. parody. Like it's almost too crazy to. believe that that's how close he was to. leaving Korea. He was also going to be. promoted to major too. like he was his. life was uh like looking up when he was. murdered. >> Yeah. Really sad. >> So, um this was a really really big deal. as you can imagine. This is the first. time that any uh UN command troops and.

any Americans had been killed in Korea. um since the end of the Korean War. It. was a huge provocation. Um and there was. a big question now on the table. What is. the United States military going to do. so that two of its um two of its. officers were murdered by axe by North. Korean troops totally unprovoked? >> This was 100% the North Koreans doing. this so much their fault that like you.

said it almost seems like it was um. possibly set up. We'll talk about that a. little bit later. And so there was a big. a big question that needed to be. answered and answered really fast and. that was what how are we going to. respond to this? >> Yeah. So on the US side at the time we. had Henry Kissinger as a secretary of. state under President Gerald Ford. Uh. like we mentioned it was 76. So it was. the election year between Ford and Jimmy. Carter. And Ford learned about the. incident when he was at the Republican.

National Convention. And obviously as. Secretary of State, Kissinger was kind. of in charge of figuring out what to do. Calls together the Washington Special. Action Group, which was a task force. that was formed in ' 69 um out of. Vietnam to deal with like sort of any. emergencies like this that came up. >> And it's Henry Kissinger. So he's like, "We we should bomb the barracks." like. he wants to flatten the barracks of the. the guards that attack them and react. really strongly and send a you know a.

big message that this will not stand. >> Yeah, I mean I can kind of understand. that impulse. um he was apparently the. only one in the special action group. that wanted to respond with a violent. action and the reason why was because. this is such a flash point still today. but at this time I mean it was like we. were still in the middle of the cold war. so to us not only was this North Korea. this is also China and the USSR right. behind them right. >> oh yeah.

>> so if you sent a missile into the JSA. against the North Koreans There was a a. better than even chance probably that. you might spark a nuclear war, World War. III. >> Yeah. >> And luckily cooler heads prevailed, but. Kissinger had a he was probably a little. paranoid. I would guess he was he's very. widely reviled. Um including by me. Um. so I'm pretty sure he was at least a. little paranoid. I mean, he started out. in the Nixon administration for goodness. sake. But he was also his his position.

was also that this was a a provocation. by the North to test America's resolve. because it was an election year. They. were trying to interfere with the. election to make the point of Gerald. Ford's opponent Jimmy Carter who was. saying we need to get troops out of. Korea. We don't have any business being. there anymore. So Kissinger thought this. was North Korea doing this to basically. show that the Americans didn't belong. here anymore and just to get out wasn't. worth it. basically.

>> Yeah. And I get the idea. I mean, I was. but five at the time, not super into. politics yet. >> Mhm. >> Um but I get the idea that that getting. American troops out of Korea was. probably a pretty popular idea that. Carter was laying out. >> Yeah. Especially after Vietnam. >> Yeah. Well, and Kissinger was still. ticked off about Vietnam. Uh so he was. like, if we don't do this, it's going to. send a message that uh to other Asian. countries and the USSR and China that we. have no resolve and that we're going to. stand down. and you know he wanted his. guy Ford back in there obviously. So he.

was outvoted uh like you said thankfully. um but he was like all right we still. need a show of force like we need to do. something and the one thing that. everybody in the room agreed on even if. it was I mean I know it was somewhat. strategical but it was also symbolic. they were like we're cutting that GD. tree down no matter what anyone else. says we're going to cut that thing down. and they were all like harump harump. so yeah they decided okay we're not.

going to actually destroy anything. We're not going to fire any missiles. We're not going to kill anybody. But. that doesn't mean we're not going to. show them that we could do that if we. wanted to. >> Right. >> And what they came up with was known as. Operation Paul Bunan, which is one of. the better um names of any operation. I've ever heard. >> Yeah, totally. Uh it was under command. of General Richard Stillwell. He was the. commander-in-chief of the UN command. there. And the message, like you said, was to um sort of intimidate, show that.

we could do something if we wanted to. They had 40,000 troops over there. >> that were uh I mean, Dave says here it. was uh raised to defcon 3, which is. somewhat counterintuitive because it's. raising a number even though it's being. lowered, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Right in the middle between. one and five, and one's the highest. It. is very confusing. >> Yeah. So, you're raising Defcon, but the. number goes lower. It took me a second. to figure that out, but I have seen. Wargame, so I know how it works. >> Uh, and I did just see the that House of.

Dynamite. Have you seen that yet? The. new Katherine Bigalow movie? >> No. >> It's uh I think it's on I think it's a. Netflix movie about sort of a modern, you know, what would happen if if. nuclear arms were launched, like what. would we do? So, it's a very tense thing. and there's lots of Defcon talk. Uh, and. I liked a lot of it. >> Yeah, I say that. >> I can get that. I think she's um. directly funded by the CIA, honestly. >> Katherine Bigalow. >> Yeah. >> She definitely has her niche, you know.

>> Yeah, for sure. >> Uh I I would recommend it. I I didn't. care for the uh third act that much, but. >> House of Dynamite, >> I think that's what it's called. >> A great name. >> Yeah. Uh I mean, you get Idris Ela as. the president, so that's always a good. move. I'll say that. >> Wait, you're talking about that he's in. it with John Cena. John Cena is the. American president and Idris Ela's the. prime minister. And they actually end up. being like action heroes. >> No, Idris Ela is the American president. John Cena is he's nowhere to be found. >> I'm thinking of something else then.

>> You're thinking something else. Anyway, Operation Paul Bunion is set up for uh I. mean I know I'm saying Bungan, but. that's just because of my weird accent. It's Bunan. Uh August 21st. This is 3. days after the axe attack. And what they. were going to do was mobilize sort of. the largest mobilization of our forces. and defenses on the Korean peninsula. since that 53 armistice with some pretty. heavy artillery and air airship and and. uh sea ships.

>> Yeah. I mean, remember when Captain. Bonafas went to escort the tree. trimmers, there were 15 people. Now. there's 800 men involved in this tree. trimming. And I it's not even a tree. trimming at this point, right? They're. now they're aiming to like cut the tree. down. >> Yeah. They hate this tree at this point, right? They want that tree dead, >> especially if they think that deer. leader planted it, right? This tree has. now become super symbolic. Blood has. been shed. >> to prune this tree. And you said that. it's there was a ton of artillery and.

armaments as part of the show of force. And boy, you got it right. >> Yeah. I mean, they they had flying. overhead and clear view so everyone. could see, you know, what was going on. They had uh 20 Huey helicopters. They. had 12 Cobra gunships, >> B-52 bombers, uh tank buster, F4 Phantom. fighter jets, F-111 um strategic bombs. Uh I mean, they're pulling out all the. stops. And off the off the coast, they. had uh the USS USS, did I say three S's.

or two? USS Midway. um four frigots and. a cruiser and aircraft taking off, flying overhead. Uh I mean it was a real. show of intimidation. >> Yeah. Uh those B-52s to take the. intimidation even further were flying. inside North Korean airspace um not too. far from Pyang. Uh they were also. strapped with nukes. There were nuclear. missiles in this theater. Now, not just. the B-52s carrying them, but those.

F-111s were also carrying nuclear. warheads as missiles. >> So, the idea is here as part of. Operation Paul Bunny is to trim the tree. or cut the tree down now. And to also. show North Korea like do you do not want. to mess with us. Do not ever do anything. like that again. and to be prepared that. if North Korea did do something, if they. were provoked by this tree cutting down. um that they would just be essentially. wiped off the map as a as a nation. >> Yeah, for sure. And you know, the whole.

after I was studying all this, right in. the middle of it, I got weirdly very sad. for this tree. >> Yeah, I saw that tree and felt that way. as well. I've seen other people refer to. as the poor tree. >> I know. Cuz in the middle of all this. stuff, I mean, these, you know, bombers. are flying overhead and these troops are. amassing these heavy artillery on each. side of the bridge. And I just picture. that, you know, I know I'm. anthropomorphizing. I always say that wrong. >> Say it for me. >> Anthropomorphizing. You said it. You. just said it slowly.

>> That's right. This tree. Uh, but I just. pictured this poor tree sitting there. like, man, I just I just want to be a. tree. >> I wish I were a shrub. >> I don't want to start World War II or be. cut down. I know. Uh that tree did not. get their wish. >> I'll grow slower. I promise. >> Right here, I can just shed a few limbs. >> So, uh Major General John Singlav, Dave. helped us with this, found a quote, uh. that just showed how serious this was. And he said, "It was my estimate shared.

by many of the staff that the operations. stood a 50-50 chance of starting a war.". And that would have been World War II. >> Absolutely. A nuclear war. This tree. tree cutting operation could have. sparked World War II. No joke. Again, that is how tense things are at the DMZ. even still to this day. >> All right. Should we take a break? >> Yeah, let's take a break and then we're. going to talk about Operation Paul Bunan. commencing.

So Chuck, this is not a reckless thing. As a matter of fact, this was really. calculated. You mentioned General. Stillwell, who was in charge of every. American troop in in Korea. He. personally came up with this plan and he. was not a war hawk, but he also it was a.

really good plan especially if all of. the troops like followed orders and. nobody tried anything provocative and. nobody took any bait from the North. Koreans. Um it was it was a very good. plan but u the United States was not. reckless in this in carrying out this. plan. They actually got in touch with. China and the USSR and basically. basically said, "Hey, you know, we're. thinking about doing something like. this." And um China and the USSR both. signaled that they were not going to do.

anything if North Korea started fighting. that North Korea was on their own. >> I think they blinked twice and pulled. their left earlobe and then touched the. bill of their cap. >> and the United States is like, "Oh, we. got you." So now it was a little less. tense. Even though it could still start. a war with North Korea, at least we had. this idea that China and the USSR. wouldn't immediately intervene. >> Yeah. I I immediately thought of Doctor. Strange Love. >> and I could just hear Peter Sers on the.

phone going, "Well, Dimmitri, you see. there's this tree.". >> That's perfect. >> It's so great. Um I think we didn't. mention too that uh the actual tree. cutting was going to be done by unarmed. military engineers that they sent. forward. >> Yeah. >> Uh I mean the fact that they weren't. armed is is kind of neither here nor. there cuz there were so many arms. Um I. think the people actually on the bridge. um supposedly just had like um these you. know clubs and axe handles and sidearms. but both sides of the bridge were.

stocked with heavy artillery uh from. both sides. And I also saw that the. Korean South Korean faction that was. assisting us uh they rolled in and. blocked the bridge and I don't think. they were supposed to have anything more. than uh just pistols, but they unloaded. a bunch of sandbags and had a bunch of. uh M16s hidden that they took out. >> Yeah. They also showed that they had. claymore mines, landmines strapped to. their chest and they had the detonators. in their other hand and were daring the. North Koreans to come get them because.

they would blow themselves up and the. North Koreans. And this had not been. passed by the UN command um force or. anything like that. No one had any idea. that the South Korean commandos were. going to do something like that because. again, we're trying to not let this be, you know, any more tense than it already. is. And all of a sudden there's. essentially suicide bombers on the. scenes like mocking the North Koreans. So that that definitely altered things a. little bit. >> Playmore with Claymore. >> Oh yeah, I forgot that. I knew that from.

being a kid. Where where did where did. you hear that? Is that just from the. military and it trickled out? >> No, I thought it was the Simpsons, wasn't it? >> No, I I think it was like a maybe in a. Rambo or something like I I there's no. no way I would have known that as a kid. otherwise. >> Yeah. Okay. I I can't remember where I. heard it first, but at any rate, it's a. very tense scene. I think we've setting. that up. Uh and again, you know, we had. orders not to provoke, like our mission. is to cut that tree down. Um but all.

hell's going to break loose if if. anything happens. And like you. mentioned, North Korea had uh some. pretty decent incentive to kind of start. some fighting. They didn't want World. War II, but um they wanted to, you know, they wanted South Korea. still at this point. >> Yeah. Plus also Kiml Sun, the dear. leader, the first deer leader, he was a. a communist gerilla fighting the. Japanese in World War II. He was battle. hardened and tested. >> Yeah. >> So he was totally into fighting. He. wasn't like a a dove or a diplomat at.

all. >> Yeah. And I think we did mention too. that the the previous tree trimming. supposedly we had told them that this. was going to happen. And so the whole. provocation to begin with, um, if they. knew about it ahead of time, then they. came down there with that knowledge. because they didn't raise any objections. apparently that we were like, "Hey, we're going to trim this tree so we can. have a better line of sight and you'll. have a better line of sight and no one. said anything, you know, to the. contrary." So the whole thing was really.

a provocation by the North Koreans. >> Yeah, absolutely. That was the the first. time when Captain Bonafas and and. Lieutenant Barrett got murdered, right? >> Yeah, exactly. which again made it sort. of seem like it was planned to begin. with. >> Yeah, for sure. So at 0700 hours, that's. 7 a.m. on August 21st, 1976, Operation. Paul Bunan commences. And um like you said, I mean, basically. what we described there was there was an. order not to engage. I mean,

essentially, if the North Koreans. started unloading with sniper fire or. machine guns, then yes, we're going to. engage. And um it was a very tense. operation, but they they got in there, the military engineers cut the tree. essentially down to a 10-ft stump. Um. they were using I read Vietnam era issue. um chainsaws that weren't in very good. shape. So it took him a little while, but it took him about 45 minutes to. complete the whole thing.

>> And uh. >> they should have sent out Leatherface. >> He should have. >> He could have gotten that done in 10. minutes. >> Yeah. Uh but they left this big stump. with a two like it was branching at the. top and one of the um the the soldiers. who was at the scene said that it had. looked like somebody raising their arms. and surrender. >> like the North Koreans were. surrendering. >> Yeah, I saw that Kissinger tried to get. a uh a carving artist in there to shape. it in the form of a middle finger. >> Right. Those guys are great. The.

chainsaw artists, man. >> Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Um, I don't. know if the intent was ever to cut down. the entire tree. I don't think that that. was the the plan even in the second. time, even in Operation Paul Bunan. But. they left this stump. The everybody on. the US side just went back out. They. just withdrew. The operation was. successful, but things were still quite. tense. Um it's not it wasn't clear. whether North Korea was going to respond. still just because the operation was.

done and now there weren't a bunch of. troops. America or the UN command they. just kept patrolling the joint um. security area like it was any other day. because that's what it was supposed to. be. Even though this operation had. commenced, it was now over. So things. were supposed to go back to normal. But. we still had no idea what North Korea. was going to do. So, uh, you know, pretext to this was they were very. unapologetic about the whole incident. leading up to that, like after after. Captain Bonafas and Lieutenant Barrett. were killed. Um, but after Paul Bunan,

they they thankfully uh backed off. There wasn't like um an expressed. apology, but uh President Kim IlSung did. express regret for those deaths. So, they clearly were sort of backing down. at this point. uh you know much to. everyone's relief and it was it was this. incident that basically everyone was. like hey you know what maybe this maybe. we didn't think this through how this. thing operates with these guys all being. here in the same place at all times.

right. >> and so it's set up much differently now. so you uh the actual line that runs the. length of the DMC is the actual dividing. line even through the GS uh the JSA. >> yeah that that dividing line the. military demarcation line that is the. actual border as far as I understand. between North Korea South Korea with the. DMZ buffers on either side of it and. they just ignored it in the JSA but then. they started enforcing it. So now the. North Korean troops and the UN command. troops do not intermingle even though.

their posts are feet away from one. another. >> Yeah, >> it would be a really big deal for one to. attack the other because you would be. crossing the border now. There's no free. >> free invasion. It would be an enormous. deal. it would be an international. incident. And in fact, there was. something like that. In uh 1984, there. was a a Soviet exchange student who was. on a tour um with the North Koreans who. ran across the border for to defect into.

the west and a firefight started that. resulted in the deaths of three uh three. North Koreans and one uh UN command. South Korean soldier. Um and it was a. huge again an international incident. because some of the North Korean troops. had run across the demarcation line to. chase after the defector. >> Yeah, for sure. So, everyone is like. pretty happy and considered it a success. except for Kissinger, of course. >> Um the North Koreans back down really. quickly. So, it really didn't give uh.

him any chance during this election year. to kind of uh tout some big victory of. America. I mean, it was a victory, but. it I don't think it was like some huge. international news thing. Um, he wanted. he still wanted them to have blown up. the barracks. >> or to have taken out like a warship or. two as a like a big show of force. So, everyone was pretty stoked and and. except for old Henry. Um, so they left. that popppler tree there as a a. reminder, a monument of sorts actually, until the 10th anniversary of the axe.

murder incident um on August 18th, 1986. They pulled the tree out, the stump and. all, roots and all, and um replaced it. with a memorial. And there's a plaque on. it that reads, "On this spot was located. the yellow popppler tree, which was the. focal point of the axe murders of two. United Nations command officers, Captain. Arthur Bonafas and First Lieutenant Mark. Barrett, who were attacked and killed by. North Korean guards while supervising a. work party trimming the tree on 18.

August 1976.". And it's it's just so plainly put. without any flowery language that it. also just kind of gets across the the. horrible absurdity of the whole thing. >> Yeah, for sure. Um, and just a few years. ago in 2022, there was a uh sort of a a. joint show of um uh not friendship, but. like maybe we should kind of literally. put this to rest by planting a tree. Mh. >> Uh, I think the presidents of the two.

countries got together in the JSA to. plant a pine tree of peace. >> Mhm. >> And they took turns shoveling soil from. each side, watered it with rivers from. each side. >> Yeah. >> Uh, and the pine tree of peace became, you know, and and right now is sort of a. big symbol of kind of what happened. there and maybe let's try and just chill. things out a little bit. >> Yeah. What made it even more significant. was that the South Korean president. Moonja was actually one of the South. Korean commandos who took part in. Operation Paul Bunan.

>> Yeah, it's crazy. >> Uh and then there's one other little. note that I found pretty interesting. Um. there's a a onehole par three um well. golf I don't think you could call it a. course, but um it's it's like a. astroturf par well a par three um that's. surrounded by landmines. uh now where. the popular tree used to be and it's. called the most dangerous hole in golf. from Sports Illustrated. >> Yeah. And we never really said, you. know, we kind of hinted around that this.

might have been all planned to begin. with. >> And there is circumstantial evidence. that um suggests that that whole attack. was pre-planned to begin with, >> right? >> Um you know, cuz I mentioned that we had. gotten in touch with them and said, "Hey, we're going to prune this tree.". And no one really said like, "No, don't. do that." And so that attack seemingly. came out of nowhere. But uh one big clue. was um I think 3 minutes after this. incident occurred. Radio Pyongyang, which is the North Korean state radio, they broadcast a very biased report on.

this like right after it happened. So it. seems pretty clear that it was. pre-planned, but um analysis later on uh. seems to indicate that the Soviets did. not know about it and they were kind of. acting on their own. No, I I saw one. other piece of circumstantial evidence. too that kind of is pretty definitive is. that within five hours there was a. non-aligned nation which were the. nations during the cold war who didn't. choose sides. All of them were meeting. in Korea and um within five hours Korean.

delegates were at that meeting handing. out memos describing this the um axe. murders and totally blaming it on the. Americans like had completely flipped it. around in an effort to kind of draw up. support to get the Americans out. So. that's um it does seem pretty likely. that the North Koreans planned the axe. murders. >> Yeah, agreed. You got anything else? >> Uh, I got nothing else. >> This is a good one, man. Um, hats off to. the uh person or people who suggested it.

and maybe listen out for a future random. episode where we thank you for it. >> I I couldn't find it. I might have found. this on my own. >> I'll help you look. >> You know what? I think I was looking for. live show topics and came across this. >> Oh, cool. Yeah, this this would have. been a good one, but there's there's a. lot of downers, too. >> Yeah. >> Not a lot of jokey, ridiculous stuff. Yeah. >> Uh, do you have anything else? >> I do. I do not. >> Okay. Well, that means it's time for. listener, man.

>> Uh, I'm going to call this the pain of. preeemption cuz that's what Michael. called it. Uh, hey guys. Love the. Saturday Saturday morning cartoon. episode. I was born in ' 84 and watched. them well into high school. Uh, your. episode covered a lot, but you left out. one thing, the pain of preeemption. Local channels uh, carried the big. networks would often cut off the. cartoons to show golf, baseball, or. other sports. And as a kid, I know, I. never knew when this was going to. happen. Uh, just suddenly the joy of. cartoons was abruptly halted. Show a. golf match that no kid would care about.

Uh, I never got to see the Christmas. special, Christopher the Christmas Tree, or the last episode of Ultimate Muscle. I haven't heard of any either one of. those. >> I haven't either, but I still feel for. him. >> Uh, he said, "I don't want to bring down. the room, but it's important to remember. that those wonderful mornings could be. broken at any time." Uh, thanks for. making such a great show. Uh that is. from Michael J.Randle. And I forgot to mention Michael his. initial salutation was dear Mike and. Josh. >> Wow. He's got himself on the brain.

>> I know. >> Well, um that was a great email, Michael. And thank you too, Mike, for. reading it. >> Okay, I'll be Mike. >> No, you're not Mike. You're Chuck. Everybody knows that. >> That's my brother's middle name, too, though, so that doesn't fly. >> Yeah. >> Scott Mike. That's. >> Oh, no, no, no. That's his first name. I. forget. My brother and my sister, their. middle name is is uh their name, which. is interesting. I'm not sure why that. happened. >> This has gotten so confusing to me. >> He's Michael Scott. >> Is he really? >> Yeah. >> That's awesome. Why are you not calling.

him that all the time? >> I don't know. I probably should. I mean, that's the office guy, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I didn't I never have thought about that. until right now. >> Well, that's what I'm going to call him. from now on. >> All right. >> Okay. Uh, if you want to be like Michael. Crannle, not Michael Scott, and send us. an email, uh, we would love that. Please. do. You can send it off to stuffodcast@. iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart.

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