Nickelodeon:The Best of Slimes | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's. here, too. And that makes this a good. old-fashioned. stuff you should know edition. >> That's right. Uh, and unfortunately, we. have to issue a COA for this one. >> Oh, yeah. And it is pretty unfortunate. for sure. >> Yeah. I mean, you see the title. Nickelodeon and you think just a riporn.

good time uh and nostalgia fest and it. is that uh but we kind of tell the whole. story of Nickelodeon which very sadly. includes uh some sexual abuse and so. trigger warning for for people in. general and definitely for parents. listening with kids. >> There you go. Well done. We should just. edit that as a clip and anytime we have. a COA just just pop that in. >> Yeah. Great. >> Um All right. So, let's get to the fun. nostalgia part first at least, right?

>> Yeah, for sure. >> So, Nickelodeon was probably a little. after your wheelhouse, right? Were you. always a little too old for Nickelodeon. or was there ever a ven diagram with you. and Nickelodeon and happiness in the. middle? >> There's a brief time of a little bit of. Nickelodeon stuff for me, but I was just. on the edge of uh being a little too. old. But some of the stuff like I. definitely remember uh you can't do that. on television and a little bit of Double. Dare.

>> Yeah. >> But yeah, I mean this was right in the. middle of your wheelhouse. So I bet. >> I watched this all the time. >> Yeah, that's great. >> I watched Pinwheel. I watched like you. said, they can't do that. You can't do. that on television. Double Dare. Um what. else did I watch? Uh Danger Mouse, Inspector Gadget. >> Um. >> Oh wow. I mean, just basically anything. they would put on. Today's special, I. was huge into today's special. >> Um, anything they would put on, I would. definitely watch. And I loved it all.

>> I love it. Well, this one's for you, baby. >> Thanks a lot, man. One thing I did not. realize though is that um Nickelodeon. started in my home state of Ohio. And I. don't know if you've noticed or not, but. I'm pretty selective about when I claim. Ohio as my home state. >> Not sure. And I know you love to rub it. in that you're an Atlanta native and. it's just, you know, I'm a newbie, a. carpet bagger. >> But at any rate, that's where. Nickelodeon started actually in. Columbus, Ohio.

>> as part of like this test that Warner. Cable did, pretty forwardthinking test. in 1977 where they're like, "Hey, you. know, everybody watches TV with. antennas. We're going to launch the the. first cable network in the United. States, if not the world.". >> Yeah. It was called Warner Cable. Uh. they opened that studio in Columbus, like you said, and they had 30 channels. at first. Uh I guess you'd pronounce it. Cube, huh? >> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's what I'm going. with. >> QB.

>> Mhm. >> Uh and you could pay 10 bucks a month. and you know, depending on what you were. into, you could get shows like Flippo's. Magic Cars. Uh they had a early show. kind of preceded Star Search even I. think called Talent Search. >> Yeah. And I was wondering if it if Star. Search grew out of Talent Search and I. could find no correlation. >> Yeah, I couldn't either. So, we give. that rumor two and a half stars. >> Very nice. >> I used to love Star Search. >> I never really watched it that much, but. I do know that Rosie O'Donnell got her.

start there. >> Oh, really? >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Oh, she killed. >> I was a big fan. >> She won like 15 weeks in a row or. something like that. >> Was she Well, it it had adult stuff, too. Or was it just kids? Oh, her sets. were filthy, >> right? Uh, so yeah, they had talent search, but. the cable system, it had a gimmick at. first, which was a a remote control that. was wired to the cable box, I guess, that let you interact with the shows.

Um, and it didn't work out. I think they. realized, uh, that that gimmick like. didn't fully work. Uh, they also had. other financial difficulties. And um I. think it launched in ' 77 and was done. by 84. But um one of the channels which. was Pinwheel or C3. >> uh lived on. It was created by a woman. named Vivian her uh who came from the TV. the great TV show The Electric Company. >> Yeah. >> And it was commercial free programming.

for preschool kids. Tw. >> 20 or no 12 hours a day of it. 14 hours. a day on weekends. And like you said, commercial free and that was the. network, right? Um, and Pinwheel also. had an autonomous show called Pinwheel, which I also watched a lot. >> Now, what was that? >> I mean, it was a show where live human. actors interacted with puppets and Okay. Um, the the most memorable character for. me was Gary Gnu. >> Oh, is that where that came from?

>> Yeah. There's no Gnus. Wait, there's no gnus like good gnus. with Gary Gnu. >> I've heard Gary Gnu. I had no idea what. the origin was. >> So any word that started with N, he said. good for like he he added that G at the. very beginning, but. >> what a bit. Can you imagine him just. hanging out late one night smoking a. joint and being like, I've got it. >> Yeah, it was one of those things. It was. late 70s, early 80s um pot smoking like. kids, like kids programmers essentially.

is what that kind of show was. >> Okay, that's great. >> It was good. But the whole network was. called Pinwheel 2 at first until. somebody was like, "Hey, I really like. the sound of the word Nickelodeon.". And they said it like 50 times in this. one meeting. And finally everybody was. worn down enough that they're like, "We'll change the network pin wheelel to. Nickelodeon." I think that was in 1979. Yeah. 79. Uh, and you're right. I think, you know, a Nickelodeon was like an. old-timey like movie house that you paid.

a nickel to get into, but they didn't. name it for that reason. I think they, like you said, I think they just thought. it had a nice ring to it, I guess. >> Yeah. And also, weirdly, they had a um. an oldtimey man is their first logo. An. old-timey man looking into like a I. guess like a small movie player. >> Yeah. And it was like uh right in it. dovetailed with that era where if you. went to Wendy's like their wallpaper was. made of like 1910 newspaper ads.

>> Oh yeah. Old Wendy's is great. >> Tiffany lamps and all that. >> Uhhuh. >> I'm still unsettled by those high lace. women's boots that they always. advertised. >> Yeah. Too sexy. >> I might have seen ads for wicker. wheelchairs, too. Maybe that's where. that came from. >> Yeah. Your your biggest fear. But at any. rate, they got rid of that after a. couple of years, and they came up with. the first good Nickelodeon um logo, which was a silver pinball with. Nickelodeon written over it in different. colors. It was very pretty.

>> Yeah. Very popular bubble letter style. at the time. Uh a year later in 1980, uh. a guy named Sai Schneider who was a. advertising executive became the first. president of the network. >> Um he had a little experience. He um was. involved on the marketing advertising. side when Mattel sponsored the Mickey. Mouse Club in the 50s. So he had a. little bit of experience with kids TV. from the ad side, but this was kind of a. new jam for him. Uh so he started. marketing Nickelodeon as the young. people's network and they had some, you.

know, fun shows. I I do remember, uh I. didn't watch any of these, but I. remember Reggie Jackson's World of. Sports. I remember that being a thing. >> Uh and I also remember the Leonard Nemoy. show being a thing. Leonard Nemoy's. standby colon lights camera action. >> Yeah, I never saw or even heard of. either of those shows, but that it kind. of gives you a taste of how Nickelodeon. started out as slightly it skewed. slightly older. So, I can see 14year-old. boys watching those.

>> Yeah, I was nine at the time. So, I was. aware it was around uh I I was aware of. the show Livewire, which was a a live. tape show in front of a teenage audience. at the Ed Sullivan Theater even in New. York City. It was like a current event. show. So, I knew about that show and it. was really popular. It won their uh gave. them their first cable ACE award. Uh, and then I don't think we mentioned that. they were splitting airtime. Uh, like. they ran programming during the day, but. the A&E network uh, was on after hours,

>> right? Sexy Ballet. >> That's right. >> Uh, Livewire, I looked into that a. little bit because I never watched it. I. don't know that I'd even heard of it to. tell you the truth, but when I saw like. the set, it rang like a little bit like. a vague bell, but it was for definitely. older kids, kids older than me, like. teens. And there is a um there's a clip. you can find of Adam Horowitz, King Ed. Rock from BC Boys. >> Oh yeah. >> As a 17-year-old posing as a like he.

went into the audience of Livewire. And. uh he asked a question of Africa Bombat, who was the guest at the time. He's. like, "Hey, have you heard that that new. record from the BC Boys, Cookie Puss?". And he got Africa Bombato to admit like, "Yeah, he he'd listened to it and he had. the record and he liked it without ever. saying like I'm one of the Beasty Boys.". Like he was just plugging this as like. just some average um audience member. It's pretty great. >> Oh, that's funny. I mean, Livewire had.

some good stuff. Like performed on. Livewire in ' 83. >> The Ramones. >> Uh the Ramones did. I know that Frank. Zappa was a guest. So, they were. definitely like somebody cool was. running that show. >> Yeah. And not only like they were cool. enough to to want those people on, they. were cool enough to get those people on. that show. So yeah, this is on. Nickelodeon, everybody. And this is it. was one of their first like really great. shows. And then something else um. changed. almost immediately when when Nickelodeon.

just really started getting going. Um. they brought on a woman named Geraldine. Leborn and she was kind of like not the. antithesis to Sci Schneider but. certainly had a different view of what. Nickelodeon should be doing. Sci. Schneider's thing was you know like you. said he came from the advertising the. kids world. What's wrong with that? >> Yeah. >> And Geraldine Leborn's whole thing was. like let's let's find out what the kids. want and go on that premise and not try. to sell them stuff. let's just like.

really make this a network for kids. rather than just saying that's what it. is and really it's for advertising or. something like that. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh I think Schneider was. a bit older too uh if if he was working. on the Mickey Mouse Club in the 1950s. This was like 30 years after that. >> Yeah. Uh, and she also recognized like, hey, you know, a lot of people are. treating this network and these shows as. a stepping stone, like get in the door. doing these children's shows so they can. go on and do other things in Hollywood.

And she was like, I want staff that like. wants to do this and wants and is. dedicated to like kids programming, which seemed like a really kind of savvy. move, I think. >> For sure. For sure. Um, it didn't matter. whether you did cocaine. That was not. part of it, right? It was, "How do you. feel about kids programming?" Right. >> That's right. Uh-huh. Full stop. >> One of the things that Nick did, I'm. just going to call it Nick because I. watch so much of it. I'm on a firstname. basis with it. >> Yeah. >> But they would basically poach TV shows. from Canada. >> Yeah.

>> They still do. As a matter of fact, there's still like a lot of the shows. that were on Nickelodeon that I watched. as a youngster, I was like, "Something's. not quite right with this show." Turns. out they were all Canadian. As an American, it seems slightly. sideways. >> Exactly. I'm like, these people are. really nice. >> Yeah, exactly. Uh, you can't do that on. television. Was a Canadian show uh that. came from uh Ottawa Station a couple of. years previous from its debut on. Nickelodeon in 1981. >> And that was a great show. It was. created by Roger Price and uh Jeffrey.

Darby. And it was it was a skit show. that was like squarely aimed at making. kids laugh. Like that kind of humor. >> Yeah. And one of the ways that they did. that is that the teen and even pre-teen. actors all had like a say in how the. scripts went and like what the scenes. were. And so that was cool in and of. itself cuz I mean they were speaking. directly to you. It kind of ran through. that filter. >> And then also it they would the show. itself was almost like a character. The.

show itself could be like a set or a. scene or something like that and not. just like them chatting in between. shooting. Like there could be, if I. remember correctly, there was a scene. where one of the kids was playing a. character who was chained up in a. dungeon. and another kid who wasn't dressed like. them just came in and took over for him. because that kid had to like go home and. do homework or something like that and. they did it in the middle of the scene. So like there it was just kind of weird. like that and it really worked for that.

show. It's it's a really good show. I. went back and watched it and you. definitely have to be of that age to. really appreciate it. But I remember. loving they can't or you can't do that. on television. >> Yeah. I uh I went back and watched a lot. of this stuff like clips on YouTube and. I realized that I watched more of this. than I remember watching I guess. Um, and I remember that guy, who was the. main guy on that show, like the main. adult cast member? >> His name was Less Lie.

>> Less Lie. That's it. >> I think they he went by Les, too, because they all went by their real. first names. >> Yeah, it was kind of like if you've ever. seen the Larry Sanders show, it was kind. of like that. They would have these meta. moments, >> right? Exact. Well put. This was the. This preceded the Larry Sanders show and. was actually where it came from. >> Are you joking? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, it might be. You never know. >> Uh, and Alanis Moriceette was also on. it, too, because you can't have a. Canadian TV show without having Alanis. Moriceette on it.

>> Yeah. Ironic that she was on that show, right? >> I don't know. Do you think? >> Well, that was where the slime came. from. Uh, Nickelodeon is very famous for. its slime. Uh, in fact, I am using uh. the title that Livia, who helped us with. this, titled it Nickelodeon, the slime. of our lives. Great title. But Nickelodeon has always been. associated with that green slime and it. got its first uh dump on you can't do. that on television. >> Yeah. If you said I don't know, you. would get slimed. That's just how it.

went. So. >> is that the trigger? >> Yeah. I don't make the rules. It's just. how it went. Except for one show, and. this just goes to show you how early 80s. this was. They had an episode where the. Russians took over and the slime was red. slime instead. And if anyone who said. the word freedom would get slime. Well, apparently the story of how it. became green slime was an accident. because they like had made the slime but. couldn't shoot that day or something and. it turned green by the next day and so. they ended up with green slime.

>> Yeah. And then I I guess you would get. like a bonus of something between $25 to. $50. I guess it depends on how much you. held out for. And they would shoot all. the sliming scenes at the end of the day. and then you would get slimed and then. they would cut and you would run off to. the showers because different iterations. of slime sometimes turned to paste in. your hair if you didn't get it out fast. enough. And they finally found the right. one is a methyl cellulose. >> okay. >> blend that had zero allergens in it so.

they could even dump it on audience. members without fear of litigation. >> Right. Yeah. or at least them winning. litigation. Um and they but it went. through all sorts of different things. like cottage cheese, vegetable oil, vanilla pudding, Jell-O for a little. while. >> Yeah. Applesauce. >> Yeah. >> Uh should we take a break? >> Yeah. I'm getting I'm getting kind of. excited. So yeah. >> All right. It's getting good, everybody. So we'll be right back with more on Nick.

All right. So, you can't do that on. television. Was a a pretty decent. success, but Nickelodeon itself was not. like a huge hit yet.

uh in late ' 83 a guy that uh named Bob. Pitman who we've talked about um you. know one of the founders of MTV. >> and our boss at iHeart Media. >> It's several rungs up. I don't know if. he would consider himself our boss. >> I think he he may know who we are at. least. >> perhaps. >> Yeah. Bob Bob uh runs iHeart Media and. he became a head of Nickelodeon uh. Nickelodeon's parent company which was. Warner MX at the time. He was uh in ' 83.

he was a lot younger than Sai Schneider. was and it the writing was on the wall. that like Schneider wasn't going to be. around too long and younger folks were. going to be running this younger uh like. viewership network. >> Yeah. And Pitman had a lot of cred. around the television world because of. MTV just from two years before. Right. >> And so he took over Nickelodeon or he. didn't take over Nickelodeon. He um when.

he became the head of uh of Warner MX, he was now over the people who are. running Nickelodeon. He took an interest. in it early on. And so after Schneider. left, Geraldine Leborn um was put as the. head of the network. And now Nickelodeon. really blossomed. Like this is the. Nickelodeon I I remember and and like. really loved. This is 1984 I think. >> Yeah. >> One of the first things that Lelay did. was she turned to the Fred Allen um.

agency which had helped basically figure. out how MTV should brand itself. She. said, "Do this for Nickelodeon." And. they they got to town. >> Yeah. The other thing they did was they. started uh selling ads and commercials, >> right? uh which they realized I think. pretty quickly afterward like hey that's. a pretty good idea to start getting some. money flowing in. Uh so Fred Allen uh. firm comes in. They said all right we're. going to do focus groups. We're going to. get kids together and we're going to. find out what they want. And what they. found out was kids were um kind of.

roundly annoyed by adults that were. patronizing and trying to uh get them to. watch something that basically sucked. And they were tired of it. So they said, "You know what we're going to do then? We're going to craft this network around. this idea and this theme that like this. is for kids and this is for kids uh to. stand up um stand up and like shout like. hey you're not listening to me like this. is for us and and do things that we want.

to see finally. >> right um if I remember correctly an. early iteration of their new logo was um. a child setting a couch on fire inside a. living room. >> I think you're right yeah. >> but they actually did redo the logo go. They're like, "This this pinball and. rainbow letters thing is so childish and. and patronizing.". >> Sai Schneider, come on. >> I still like it. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I thought I thought it was very. cute. All right. >> Um I would look at it all day long if I. could.

>> Well, you can do that if you want to, >> but they uh I guess I could, but they um. changed the logo by essentially picking. what designers roundly think of as uh. the ugliest color around. It's panone. 21. I don't know if you say the zero. first, maybe panton 021 orange, which is. now recognized pretty much everywhere as. Nickelodeon orange, but at the time. because everybody thought it was so. ugly, no one used it. So Nickelodeon. basically claimed this ugly color and it.

became just like completely synonymous. with the network. It was a great. branding move. >> Yeah. Actually, I just looked up the. previous logos and I had forgotten the. little pinball uh multicolored balloon. letter thing. >> Mhm. But now that I see it, I totally. remember it. No, it was a good logo. >> Yeah. Anything with different color. balloon lettering is aokay in my book. >> Well, your child of the 80s like me. >> Yep. >> Uh and you know, as we'll see, many of. the sets and everything in the 80s were. like I guess we'll get to that, but they.

had some pretty legendary like super8s. sets on their shows. >> Yes, they do. Man, I could look at. pictures of those all day, too. >> Uh but the logo was animated so it could. like you know take different shapes. like sometimes it was an ice cream cone. or a rocket ship or something. And then. later on when slime became like sort of. what the network was, you know, at least. like a symbol of the network. Uh it. looked like a um a slime splat and. that's kind of what they stuck with, >> right? Uh they also did bumpers, you. know, coming in and out of commercial.

breaks. >> Mhm. >> Like the animated ones. There was a. series of them by um like a a a doo-op. singing group called the Jive Five. Those were great. >> Do you remember those? >> Yeah. And I went and watched some of. them today and I was like, "Oh, yeah. I. remember these. They were great.". >> There are two standouts. One I can do. It's Nicknick Nick Nickelodeon. Right. >> There's another one. I've never been. able to do it. It's too fast for my my. thick tongue, but it is great. So, just.

go look up Nick drive five bumpers and. you'll see what I'm talking about. >> Well, what was the fast one? like just. tell me a slowed down version or. something so I might recognize it. >> Um, no. >> No. All right, I'll look it up after. >> Yeah, you're going to have to do that. >> Hey, man, I admire your, you know, gumption to stick up for yourself. >> I thought about it. >> Uh, so with Lelay running the show, um, they started doing some pretty great. original programs. Uh they had a sketch.

show called Out of Control that I. remember was hosted by Dave Gouier. >> of uh which Full House. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh and a show called Turkey TV which I. had not heard of until I saw the. description that it was like a clip show. basically hosted by a VJ essentially. And then I was like, "Yeah, I think I. remember that one.". >> I do not remember that one at all. But. they would do something that uh. Nickelodeon was also really good at. besides poaching Canadian shows. they. would go overseas and find um funny.

clips or funny commercials or whatever. um sometimes other clips from other kids. shows like in completely different. languages and then they would overdub. them in English and use them. >> uh and they did that with Turkey TV a. lot too. So that was like that was they. just did that all the time. Now I'm like. yeah those kids were totally Danish. I. had no idea at the time, but again, I. was like, there's something not quite. right about how these kids are dressed.

and the toys they're playing with. >> Yeah, that's funny. >> Yeah, it's that's exactly what it was. I. was watching that without knowing it. >> That's just funny that a kid can be. like, "Something's slightly off here.". And I can't pinpoint what it is. >> Yeah, >> cuz you didn't know they did stuff like. that back then. >> And I always shrugged and was like, "Whatever, it's still fun to watch." But. it was always there, you know, a little. the great gazoo was over my shoulder. like it's European dumb. >> So, uh, Lebornne went back to Darby, one.

of the guys who co-created You Can't Do. That on Television, was like, "Hey, what. else you got?" And he said, "Um, what. about like a game show, uh, where kids. go through a kind of a crazy obstacle. course or do these wacky things?" And. that was the seed of the idea that. became Double Dare. Uh, I watched a. episode of Double Dare earlier today, too. It was a lot of fun to see. >> God, it's so good. >> And it was like truth or dare where you. could answer a trivia question or dare. the other team if you didn't have the. answer. And if they didn't have the.

answer, they could double dare back. And. generally at that point, the the team. would opt for what was called the. physical challenge. And it was, you. know, the one I watched today was uh two. kids stand on one side of the room and. throw eggs. uh at the two kids on the other side who. are blindfolded and holding like uh you. like marching band crash symbols in. their hand. And the first one to just. randomly crash a crash symbol as the egg. comes at them without being able to see. it is the team who wins. So just really.

fun dumb stuff if you're, you know, 9 to. 12 years old. >> Yeah. Well, like what a great idea. But. um not only though was it like like. there were great little parts like that. The whole thing, every single part was. just operating on all cylinders. >> Yeah. >> The host Mark Summers was somehow. perfect for that show. >> He was great. >> He was wonderful. Um the set, like you. said, it was in the Memphis style, which. was huge in the 80s. >> Yeah.

>> Uh like PeeWee's Playhouse was Memphis. Um you you would know Memphis if you if. you're not familiar with the term, you've seen it a million times. But. those sets are just a feast for the. eyes. And then yeah, the things they. came up with like the one of my. favorites was the pick it where you had. to for a physical challenge, you had to. get a flag out of a giant nose. And to. get the flag out, you had to pick out. boogers first and then slime would come. out of the nose. And then after all. that, you had to stick your arm all the. way up there and pull the flag out.

That's just so fun to create shows like. this that like that's what kids want to. see. >> Exactly. It Yeah. And then the other. thing, every single contestant was so. psyched to be there and they took it so. seriously. It was completely sincere. It. was just a wonderful I love Double Dare. I could watch Double Dare all day long. >> Yeah. You can do a lot of this stuff all. day long. >> I know. Uh, can you imagine getting that. phone call or letter in the mail where. you are are picked to be a contestant on.

that show and what like that must have. felt like as a kid? >> Yeah, for sure. For other kids, I I I. would have dreaded that. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I was that kid who was like in the. circus when the clowns were coming down. the aisle. I would be like, "Do not pick. me. Please, God, please don't pick me.". >> Yeah. That was my dad. >> What? He would He wanted to be picked. >> No, no, no. My dad would always. >> Yeah. Like. >> I wonder if I should even say this. >> I think I will. No, I'm not going to say.

it. >> Okay. >> My dad was not a participant. Let's just. say that. >> All right. Well, I'm. >> in in life like that. >> I'm with him on on that. I just I I. don't like I don't like the spotlight, you know? >> What about today? If you like went to a. theme park and they were like, "Let's. get this guy out of the audience." Would. you do it or would cuz you've got a lot. of experience on stage now. >> Do I would have to do it. I mean, you're. a jerk to not just do it if they pick. you. >> But you wouldn't like love being picked. >> No. And I would be just like. breathlessly anxious the entire time. >> They'd be like, "Why is that guy's hand.

trembling?". >> That's funny because you stand on stage. in front of like 2,000 people and you're. great. I. >> I know. But think about how much stage. fright I had to get over. >> That's true. And you're still standing. up there with your hand trembling. >> Exactly. If you ever see me on stage at. a Stuff You Should Know show and I'm. picking up my water with both hands, >> right? >> It's because they're too trembly to pick. them up by themselves. >> Well, maybe that's part of the magic. Makes you good. >> Thanks, man. I think you're great, too, because you're so laid-back. It's just.

so easy for you. >> Hey, it's uh we're the yin and yang, you. know. >> I'm the um the shuttery side. >> That's right. So, these were all shot uh. at the time in Philadelphia at the WH YY. Studios and um you know it was a big. hit. Mark Summers, everyone loved him. like you said and that was not their. first but you know one of the early like. big big breakouts that made Nickelodeon. kind of a juggernaut. >> Yeah. One of the other things that made. Nickelodeon a juggernaut was after A&E.

was likeara. we're going to form our own full. network. Um, Nickelodeon had the evening. hours to fill all of a sudden, so they. just did what you do. They went and. turned to um, reruns of classic TV. shows, but they branded it as Nick at. Night. >> And I was into this, too. Like, I. seriously had Nickelodeon on all the. time. This is the stuff I would watch. when I would go buy a six-ack of. Kingsberry non-alcoholic beer and Slim. Gyms and Twix and just settle in for the. night. It was just sit there and watch.

like F Troop and Mr. Ed and I Spy. I. just it just the whole network just. spoke directly to me. >> Yeah. I mean, I I still say if I had. like one wish, it might be to for you. and I to have grown up in the same. neighborhood and been the same age. I I. could have learned a lot from you. >> We'd both be a lot different, I think. >> Yeah, probably. So, I'd be more like you. and you'd be more like me. >> Exactly. There's probably a lot of. listeners out there right now who are. like, "Wait a minute, you guys didn't. grow up in the same neighborhood.".

>> I wish. Uh, so the network grew. they. eventually would um partner with. Universal Studios and open a uh like. studios there and kind of moved. Nickelodeon there, >> which was a big deal because all of a. sudden that was like a tourist. attraction and if you were a visitor to. Universal, you could sit in the audience. and maybe even be on some of these shows. if you got pulled from the audience. >> Not me. Not me. >> And uh after Double Dare, they were. like, "These game shows are kind of. hot." So uh they had a show called.

Finders Keepers. I don't think I watch. this a ton, but I definitely remember. cuz it was a big giant fake house. >> and they would hide stuff in there and. kids could just basically completely. destroy the place looking for the hidden. items. >> Yes. I don't know if I watched that one. either. I went and looked at pictures of. the set and that didn't really ring a. bell, but I I was familiar with the. concept. Guts I'd never heard of before. >> Same. >> It was like um a ninja warrior type. thing, I think. >> Yeah. But again, from Nickelodeon years.

and years before, >> Legends of the Hidden Temple, it was. essentially like a double there where. you would um answer questions, usually. geography related, and then for the. physical challenge, it was running. through this giant temple that was like. cross-section, so you could see the. person running through in it, and there. were secret passages and stuff you need. to find like the artifact or whatever. I. didn't watch that, but I remember seeing. ads for it when I was watching the next.

level of stuff on Nickelodeon like um. Pete and Pete. >> Yeah. The late 80s and early 90s. And. this is, you know, late high school and. early college for me. So, I was. definitely out of the picture by now. >> But I remember for sure the show Hey. Dude. >> And I remember us in college even I. think sort of ironically watching it. occasionally. >> Okay. Yeah. I didn't watch that. I. didn't watch Salute Your Shorts or. Clarissa Explains at all, but they were. all sitcoms, like live action sitcoms.

>> Yeah. >> And they were huge hits, right? >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> The one that gets me, and this show is. Canadian, too, if I'm not mistaken, but. The Adventures of Pete and Pete. >> Yeah, that was a big one. >> Is still one of the best shows ever. made. >> Like, it still holds up. >> Okay. You're just going to have to trust. me. I didn't know I was about to stun. you with that, Revel. No, I mean I' I've. I I was just too old and I never caught. it after. So I I've I've I've heard the. legend of how great that show is. I. should probably check it out now. >> Yeah, you should. And you know who else.

would love it is Ruby. Is totally up her. alley. Like the kind of weird humor. >> I really think she'd like it. >> All right, we'll check it out. >> The only time that I've ever been. starruck, Chuck, that I can remember, like genuinely starruck, was when we did. a live show in San Francisco at the. Mariners Hall. Uhhuh. >> And we followed a Pete and Pete reunion. >> Oh, that's. >> they were there when we were coming in. and I could not believe who I was in the.

same room with. I I hung out and talked. to little Pete. Big Pete was kind of in. and out, but I just I was just barely. hanging on during that conversation. >> Yeah. I remember one other time you were. starruck uh when we got to go to the. Simpsons stable read and we met Matt. Graining. >> Fair enough. Yeah, >> cuz I was the same. You and I were both. like tiny children. >> It's true. That's true. >> Yeah, it was great. Uh, should we take a. break? >> Yes. >> All right, we're going to take a break. and move into the cartoon era right. after this.

So, I think one of the things we're. back, by the way, Chuck, and one of the. things that Nickelodeon is now thought. of more than anything else is a place.

where like some really great cartoons. have been birthed. >> Yeah. Um, not the least of which was Ren. and Stimpy, which I always associate. with MTV because it got picked up by MTV. like I think while it was still original. stuff was running, but they they. syndicated it so fast that MTV had it. too if I'm not mistaken. But regardless, it started out on Nickelodeon. >> Yeah. The Ren and Stimpy Show, uh, show. called Doug and of course Rugrats um, all premiered in 1991, which is kind of.

crazy because those shows were all huge. >> Mhm. Um, Lebornne was still the network. head in '91, but left about 5 years. after that and was succeeded in 96 by a. guy named Herb uh, Scanel, I guess. >> Sure. >> And he really um, I guess was like this. animation thing is the thing. We should. keep doing it. Um, Ren and Stimpy uh, and you know, parents, this is where. things get a little dodgy if you want to. uh, tune out if you have kids in the. car. But uh the creator of Renon Stimpy.

uh John Chris Falooi uh he ran the first. two years two seasons of that show and. it was really his brainchild and it was. such a just amazing wonderful hysterical. show. Uh but apparently he like um. couldn't stay on budget and would blow a. lot of deadlines. So he they were like. you're out of here and the last three. seasons I think he was not a part of. uh. and everyone was crushed at the time, but then uh many years later in 2018, uh. it was he was exposed. Uh two women came. forward and was like, "This guy sexually.

abused us in the '90s um when we were 13. and 15. Uh I think one of them like he. had a full-on like relationship as a 15. 16 year old.". >> Mhm. >> Which is just, you know, horrendous and. sick. And uh he later on uh gave a a. pretty terrible non-apology uh where he. blamed um his uh mental health at the. time and his poor impulse control. Uh he. uh quit the business. The statute of. limitations had passed to do anything.

about that unfortunately. But that was. you know that was unfortunately sort of. the the sad way that Ren and Stimpy. ended. >> Yeah. Ren and Stimpy like you said it. carried on without him for years and it. was great still too. Yeah. So, by 96, uh, Nickelodeon is the biggest thing in. the world, basically. They had the most. daily viewers of any cable channel, and. they held that spot for 16 years, which. is quite a run. Um, they had a bunch of. other big cartoons. One, uh, called Hey.

Arnold that I'd heard of, uh, The. Adventures of Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius. was a big one. >> in the early 2000s. Uh, and then, you. know, kind of leaning away from these. sort of wackier shows, they had shows. like Avatar: The Last Air Bender. Uh, and then it's spin-off, The Legend of. Kora, which uh is voiced Kora is voiced. by Friend of the Show and Friend in real. life, Janet Barney. >> Yeah, I saw that. It's pretty awesome. >> It's the best. Ruby really got into that. show and um for a while. I was watching. it with her and it's really good. And.

Janet was very sweet and would send Ruby. uh birthday videos with her like kind. talking as Kora and it's it's just. Janet's the best. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I remember you telling me that and. now I I've connected the dots. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um Yeah. So we've uh gone way out of my. wheelhouse now. The last one the last. cartoon that I watched consistently came. out in 93. It was Rocco's Modern Life. which was really great. >> Um and I also used to watch Doug. It was. a sweet cartoon. Yeah, I remember Doug.

>> Kind of like a a a diary of a wimpy kid. kind of thing a little bit too. You. know, he's just too. >> too gentle for, you know, his age group. or something like that. >> Yeah. >> But far and away the biggest cartoon. that ever came out of Nickelodeon, the. biggest cartoon that maybe had ever been. on television was um and is Spongebob. Squarepants. And that started in 1999. and a guy named Stephen Hillenberg who. um I guess studied to be a marine. biologist kind of famously he uh he.

created Spongebob Squarepants instead. and I think it was probably a pretty. good move on his part. >> Great move. Uh it's still going today. It's in his 17th season. Um, as of 2. years ago, when it hit its 25th. anniversary, uh, the world learned that. Nickelodeon had support supposedly. earned $16 billion from Spongebob retail. stuff. >> Yeah. >> Uh, toys and clothes and, you know, you. name it, like any anything incl up up to. and including a Broadway musical.

>> Yeah. And Hillenberg uh, got a. substantial chunk of that. He had. negotiated, I think, from the outset, like a pretty decent amount of the merch. percentage. >> Yeah. George Lucas advice. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. The back end is what you. want, right? >> Well, no. Lucas was like merchandising. Like he negotiated that Star Wars. merchandising early on and from then on. everyone was like, "That's the move.". >> Yeah. It's always really paid off for us. in Aces. >> Well, he he uh I think they got mad at. him about that though, right?

>> Yeah. So, um, we can kind of jump ahead. a little bit because today there's a lot. of Nickelodeon fans who are just really. upset and heartbroken and frustrated. because they feel like the network was. allowed to really get run into the. ground. And they lay the blame mostly at. the head of the network from 2006 to. 2018. Her name is Simma Zurgami. and she. is apparently well known for not being. happy that Hillenberg made as much money. as he did from the Spongebob um revshare.

arrangement. And so she made sure that. if you were a new creator coming to. bring a show on to Nick, you got zero. bagel percentage of the merch sales from. your creation. So that would scare away. new creators who had any anything good. under their belt, right? So that was one. thing. So much so that they actually had. what can really only be taken as a. desperate attempt to attract new um. talent. They had a Nickelodeon animated.

shorts program in 2012, which is like, "Hey, if you're unknown, submit a brief. version of your cartoon and maybe we'll. pick it up." You don't do that if you. have like established creators coming to. you with shows, right? >> Yeah. That's kind of a sneaky way to get. free programming. >> Exactly. or to get people who you can. exploit because they're hungry to get. their foot in the door, right? So, there's that. She also turned down. Adventure Time when it was picked in. Nickelodeon first, which is like if. you're a cartoon fan and you turn down. Adventure Time, you're just a pariah.

>> Yeah. And then also Chuck, and this is. much more serious, she's basically she's. really criticized for essentially. turning uh her head the other way, looking the other way, while a guy named. Dan Snider basically carried out a reign. of terror um among a lot of the. liveaction um shows that featured child. actors who did not get enough protection. from the network. >> Yeah, for sure. Like there was a. systemic um child sexual abuse problem.

at Nickelodeon. That's the only way to. say it. >> Yeah. >> Uh there was a documentary uh did you. ever see it? >> No. Uh what's it called? Quiet on the. set. >> Yeah, Quiet on the Set: The Dark Side of. Kids TV. It was a couple years ago and I. watched it. Uh it's it's pretty. upsetting, but I'm sure um you know, you're a big Nickelodeon guy, so I don't. know if you want to like you know all. this happened, but it might be upsetting. for you to like actually see the. documentary. >> Yeah. I mean, even without being a. Nickelodeon guy, I'm sure it's. upsetting, right? >> It is. But Dan Schneider, uh, you may. know him. He was an actor. He was Dennis.

on Head of the Class, >> right? >> He was in, uh, Better Off Dead with John. Cusack. >> And like. >> that was him. >> Yeah. Yeah. He was the uh, sort of loser. neighbor who the exchange student lived. with. >> Yeah. I never put those two characters. together, but yeah, I see it now. >> So, that's where I knew him from. Uh but. he started out as a writer in 1994 on. the sketch show All That and created. some of their biggest live action shows. uh the Amanda Show with Amanda Bines, uh. Drake and Josh, uh Zoe 101, I Carly,

Henry Danger, like these were humongous. shows. Yeah. >> And at the time he was being criticized. like even while he was there of like, man, this guy's like putting pretty. overt like sexual humor in these uh. shows and like making girls do like. really kind of uh pretty obvious sexual. things. Uh like you know things that. were very phallic. Like obviously like. when you see clips in the documentary. it's just like man are you kidding me?

Like why didn't someone say something? >> It's just so obvious. While later on he. denied like we never did anything like. that intentionally. >> He basically gas lit everyone with his. apology later. Uh but there was more. abuse going on too, right? >> Yeah. Drake Bell, uh who I didn't watch. it, but I'm guessing he was one of the. characters on Drake and Josh as well. >> Yeah. >> He he started out on the Amanda show. with Amanda Bines. >> He had a dialogue coach who sexually. abused him, a dialogue coach named Brian. Peek who was convicted in 2004.

2004 was also a bad year in that a. production assistant named Jason Handy. who worked with some child actors on All. That and The Amanda Show, he got a. six-year sentence for sexually abusing. two girls. And then a few years after. that, another Nickelodeon uh worker and. animator named Ezel Channel was. convicted of sexually abusing boys at. the studio. So this is what I was saying. when when I was saying like Simma. Zorgami is is.

>> not very well thought of among fans just. at the very least for that just for not. doing anything about that and even if. she or the other heads didn't know what. was going on. The fact that there was. that that it was that easy for people to. pray on child actors. You got child. actors, man. Like, they deserve special. protection even more than your average. kid because your average kid is not in a.

a situation with a bunch of creators and. teamsters and whoever else, >> right? >> Like when my niece Mila is on the set, both of her parents are there and at. least one of them is there all the time. >> Oh, yeah. I'm sure. >> Like that's just what you have to do if. you have a child actor. And apparently. that's just not what was going on. everywhere in these these shows. >> No, it was way more laxed back then. And. you know, you hear all this stuff and. you're just like, what is going on at. Nickelodeon? And it's the the sad truth. is it's it was a kids network with kid.

shows with kid actors. And that's where. like someone who's a predator will like. go and get a job. And and it's it's. deeply deeply upsetting that that. happened and was allowed to happen. Uh, and there weren't more protections in. place. Like the documentary is just a. brutal watch, >> I bet. So, um, Dan Schneider finally. after I think 24 years maybe. No. Yeah. 24 years at the network.

He was fired because um an actress named. Janette McCertie, who was on IC Carly. and also starred with Ariana Grande on. Sam and Cat, which was an IC Carly. spin-off, she basically came out and and. was like, I'm not going to keep quiet. any longer. And she started essentially. like saying like, Dan Schneider did. this, Dan Snder did that. Dan Snyder. insisted that I wear a bikini for a hot. tub scene. uh even though I wanted to. wear one piece, he encouraged us to. drink as like 16 year olds and stuff,

right? So that was enough to get Dan. Snder pushed out. But then she went. further. She published a memoir in 2022. titled I'm glad my mother's dead. And. there's not some ironic twist to that. title like it's exactly what you think. or it sounds like. She was glad her. mother's dead in part because her mother. pushed her into acting and and basically. set her up for to be exposed to the. stuff she was exposed to. And in that. she refers to Dan Snder as the creator.

and she just alleged some more stuff too. that that really just put a really. negative light on Nickelodeon. >> Yeah. I mean, Viacom CBS at the time, they did an investigation that uh and. came out and said, "Well, we don't have. any evidence of sexual misconduct." Uh, but Dan Schneider was verbally abusive, we found out, and he threw tantrum, so. he's out of here. Uh, when she, and this. is even more upsetting, when all this. came out after Sam and Cat was canled, uh, she had a conference call. This was.

the, um, Janette Mccertie, the actress. who wrote the book, >> and the victim, one of the victims. Um, she had a conference call with a bunch. of agents and managers and she was. offered and didn't take it, but she was. offered $300,000 just to never talk. about it again. Don't talk about Dan. Schneider. Don't talk about Nickelodeon. And she turned it down. And then after. that, there were uh leaks to the media. that well, the series really ended. because she was mad that Ariana Grande. was paid more than her, which is about. as vile as it gets. >> What scumbags, man. That's just.

terrible. So, um, like you said, that docu series. came out and really just kind of got the. point across about what was going on. There's a a journalist who was part of. the documentary, Scotchy Cool, and uh, they said that that a lot of these. people are still working in the. industry, by the way. >> Yeah. >> So, like you said, Schneider, Dan. Schneider, issued an apology on YouTube, but you said it was a non-apology. I. didn't watch it. >> Yeah. I mean, he basically gaslit. everyone and was like, "Yeah, you know.

what? I had did some embarrassing. things, but I didn't re I didn't intend. to have any sexual jokes on the show. Like, you're just seeing what you want. to see basically, >> right? And then Nickelodeon didn't do. itself any favors by issuing like a. really legally ease nonapology itself, saying they couldn't corroborate or. negate allegations of misdeeds decades. ago. Like, get over it. This sexual. abuse is like 20 years ago. >> Yeah. Pretty disappointing. Um, Nickelodeon, like you said, has really.

gone downhill a lot since then. And, you. know, partially because that's kind of. what happened to a lot of cable TV. networks. Like people, including kids, obviously have been moving away from. traditional television and that model. >> Uh, and kids probably like quicker than. uh even older viewers. >> Uh, so their ratings have dropped a lot. You know, they were number one for 16. years, the number one cable network. Now. they are the 60th60. most popular cable channel with about. 122,000 daily viewers. Uh but you know.

they're diversifying. They're doing. programming for other TV networks. Um. and also doing like web stuff and app. stuff. >> Yeah, I looked that up. It's about it's. about the same that Disney Channel, not. Disney Plus, but the cable Disney cable. channel gets every day. So, it seems. like it's not just Nick, but um they. also have about 2.5 times what Cartoon. Network gets, but it's only a third of. what TV Land gets every day. So, >> Oh, wow. >> People go nuts for those Friends reruns.

>> I I watch those in uh hotels a lot. >> Do you? >> Yeah. Like, you know, I'm flipping it. around. Uh they they have the off awful. motion smoothing on all the hotel TVs, but. >> you hate that. >> Oh, man. Of course I do. I just don't. even know what you're talking about. >> Well, I'll have to show you sometime. >> Okay. >> Uh, but some of those older um studio. audience sitcoms don't look as bad with. that on. >> I see. >> So, that's why I'll watch that. >> Yeah. Now, once I've seen the Friends.

Without the Laugh Track videos, I I. can't watch it anymore. >> Oh, yeah. I forgot. Those were fun. >> It wasn't a big loss. But anyway, that's. Nickelodeon everybody for you. Sorry to. end it on a bummer, but that's the state. of affairs right now. Hopefully, it'll. come back and get great again. Uh, and. in the meantime, while we wait for. Nickelodeon to get great again, how. about listener mail? Uh, all right. This is short and sweet. Uh, hey guys, this is on rope. Uh, when. rope is cut to length and used for a. purpose on a ship, everybody, it becomes.

line. >> Hello. >> Chuck was using line when hoisting jibs. and sails. I've never sailed myself, but. whenever I talked with my boss who did. sail, uh, I would say rope and he would. correct me and say, "No, it's line on a. boat." So, as soon as Chuck said rope in. his Nantucket story, I stuttered. Uh, it's all good to me, though, guys. But. passing this along in honor of my old. boss. And that is Bill from. uh, Latit I guess is how you pronounce. that. Li Titz. Lettitz. Let.

>> Is that an estate or is it its own micro. nation? >> I've never heard of it. I'm going to. look it up right now though while you uh. chitchat. >> Okay. Well, thanks a lot, Bill. Um we're. going to try to figure out where you're. from. >> Pennsylvania. >> Okay. Pennsylvania. I could have guessed. that. >> Yeah. Lancaster County. I love it. >> Sure. Okay. Oh, hey, Bill hangs out with. the Amish there. >> That's right. >> All right. Well, Bill, be sure to tell. the Amish we say hi. And if you want to. be like Bill and correct us ever so. gently and kindly like Bill did, you can.

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