Misophonia: More Than an Annoyance | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too it's the trio The Tom and Jerry and. Jerry of. podcasting okay I like that well no how. about Tom and Jerry and Jerry's little. like nephew who's always getting in. trouble but he's super cute.

was that a character yeah I'm not sure. if I remember that he was a little gray. kid in diapers very very cute even Tom. wanted to take care of him sometimes why. it feels like so many shows and cartoons. felt the need to bring on like a little. cute Edition every now and then whether. it was cousin Oliver I was going to say. him on The Brady Bunch or uh. Godzuki who Godzilla and. Godzuki yeah it was a little cute baby.

Godzilla oh that's. great way to go Godzilla you really slip. one past the goalie or whoever this one. who who's this one what's his name uh. the nephew I don't know okay Jerry. that's why I said Tom and Jerry and. Jerry I gotcha um there's also don't. forget Captain Caveman and Son yeah. pretty straightforward. stuff uh but that's not at all what. we're talking about Chuck let's just. Let's Get Serious here let's get down to.

Brass tax let's get down to the facts in. other words as our Cockney friends say. um we're talking about. misophonia uh and there was a o in there. somewhere but my voice hitched. misophonia and it's possible I just. accidentally set some people off because. when I said it that second time I. articulated it clearly the O and vocal. articulation or speech articulation. where you're really pronouncing a. phon can can trigger misophonia which we.

should say means hatred of sound and is. essentially. a outraged ner nervous reaction to. sounds that make the a that the other. the average person doesn't even notice. yeah and and we'll get into like all of. the stuff here with misophonia but um. it's it seems to be more like uh. generally more like sounds people make.

like uh you often hear about like. chewing food or lip smacking or chewing. gum uh just sort of like body sounds. that people make yawning sometimes yeah. particularly or Oro facial like the. stuff you do with your mouth and stuff. yeah or nose yeah so that's typically it. I mean you know there's a range of stuff. but I thought maybe we could chat very. briefly just about. sounds that you hate like if you have. any triggering sounds at all I trigger. is probably a strong word because I I.

don't like fly into rage I don't. necessarily feel disgust like the. closest would be someone using a leaf. blower I just think those are the the. worst people on the planet I forgot. about that you're you're long running. Feud with the I can't stand them Chuck. the blowers I know I'm with you so I. have a couple of things and but uh. similarly uh to you similarly uh-oh here. we. go uh it's like a a a a noise thing like.

um an ambulance Crossing close by like I. plug my ears like a 5-year-old I can't. take it how about those new ambulance. sirens are. like you heard I don't if I've heard. those they're Bonkers but if I'm on a on. a on a street and there's like a rush of. Emergency Services I have to plug my. ears um when I'm using an airplane. toilet I have to plug my ears for that. that succubus FL sound mhm cannot hear.

it uh but those I think are just like. loud noises which as we'll see isn't the. same as misophonia no the closest I can. come with mopon as far as like a. emotional thing that really feels like. it's connected to my brain is hearing. two kinds of music at the same time um. and it's when Ruby was growing up it's a. big thing uh when like we'd be playing. music and she would come into the room. with some dumb kid toy that plays music. music mhm and it just it makes me crazy.

and angry very fast and and it's clear. it's not just like oh that annoys me. it's like a real thing you're like I'm. trying to listen to. Pavement yeah but it it it triggers me. in such a way that I'm like oh I think I. understand that neuroc connective uh. annoyance which is not the same as just. like no I don't like that sound so um Yi. has misophonia she's never been. clinically diagnosed but she very much. has it yeah oh yeah for sure.

uh it's like the oral facial stuff like. chewing that kind of stuff wow and. you're just now telling me that she's I. know it's just fun to sit back and. observe when you guys are all in the. same room together right um so she. has like I I would say maybe middling. middling um misophonia okay she can. control it but I think if there's like. if she's having a bad enough day um or. she's stressed or something like that. and triggered she'd be more likely to be.

like can you chew any louder something. like that right but normally she can. like just kind of just chill and like. deal with it but now that I've done the. research I'm like man I like I feel for. her more than I ever have before as far. as that stuff is concerned and it's not. like this is news to me like I knew she. had misophonia I understand it but just. the degree that it affects people she. just plays it really cool and knowing. now that what's going on inside of her. while she's playing it cool makes me.

never want to eat around her again just. out of out of um support yeah well. that's a that's sweet uh B playing it. cool is the Yumi way so that doesn't. surprise me right and C you you know you. mentioned her if she's already anxious. or something about something else like. as we'll see there are. comorbidities that can definitely make. it worse and I imagine just being in an. anxious State like with anything else. something annoying will could you know. push you over the edge exactly you're.

already right there and yes it's a it's. an emotional reaction a profound. emotional reaction and you said. something else too that I think is worth. worth really kind of digging into for a. second like you don't like ambulances. nobody likes the sign of ambulan that. ambulant siren is designed to to annoy. you to basically get you out of the way. to catch your attention right but not in. a good way they don't want you standing. around like jamming out to the siren or. something right so that makes sense. someone.

the sound of someone chewing mhm doesn't. send the average person into a state of. like anger or in in severe cases like. rage yeah you know where you're yelling. at the other person because they're. chewing like a normal person um that's. really where misophonia begins where. just a sound that wouldn't really upset. anybody else really affects you yeah. absolutely um and we heard from the. reason I mean we're getting to it kind. of late but but when we did our.

ASMR episode we heard from a lot of. people with misophonia MH that were like. hey a lot of this episode triggered me. and like it's a real thing and I think. we might have. even poked fun at at it a little bit and. we're like even doing like like smacking. sounds and things cuz we were uh. oblivious at the time to what a real. thing it is so we we're doing this to. make up for that in a way and uh we're. not going to give examples of sounds.

because we we do know that it's a. serious thing it's not something uh to. be made fun of or laughed at is to be. taken seriously and that is part of the. history of. misophonia and continuing history is. clinicians basically being like uh I. don't know what this is but just learn. to deal with it if you don't like the. way your husband choose yeah let's talk. about history one of the reasons why. people who finally go in to get. diagnosed and treated for misophonia.

um one of the reasons they run into that. kind of thing their doctor might tell. them just just wear earplugs or get get. a hold of yourself or something like. that yeah or the psychologist might be. like you clearly have other issues this. is just some symptom of it misophonia is. like a very new thing it has no clinical. um um definition anywhere apparently. there was a committee that got together. as recently as like I think 200. 14 15.

16 pretty PR very recently I no no no. 2022 was when the expert committee got. together for okay yeah so so during Co. like that's how recent this. was exactly they're like I guess we'll. get around to it but they finally said. okay this is a thing this is what this. thing is consists of and this is how we. think maybe you could conceivably treat. it it's that new it was only back in.

2001 that it was first described 2001. the 21st century it's like a brand new. disorder yeah in 2001 that was when uh a. couple that going to figure pretty. heavily in this one cuz they're they. were sort of the ogs uh Powell and. Margaret. jerbo they were from Poland uh the. married couple they were professors of. uh Odo Len liny laryngology yeah geez I. had it right it sounds funny that's ENT. study basically uh they were here at.

Emery I guess in Atlanta and uh Powell. was studying tenidis um trt specifically. tenus retraining therapy and uh Margaret. she was studying cancer research but uh. was like I'm also involved in this tenus. thing and we're both going all in it's. 2001 on um uh what do they call the the. the. grouping oh here it is over sensitive. hearing well uh decreased sound.

tolerance conditions DST conditions. which at the time included uh. hyperacusis phonophobia with a b and. then misophonia with an N yeah it's a. lot of info it is a lot of info and by. the way I can just hear you saying like. I had a bout of idus while I was getting. a. tattoo I'm going with. ttis all right I'm also going with pavle. CU they're from Poland so I think his.

name's pav oh was a wa uh I think so. yeah you're probably right I think they. actually spell vodka with the w over. there it's just off the wall to be alive. right so at first they were saying like. okay there's all these things that are. kind of lumped together uh like you said. the uh dsts to decrease sound tolerance. and they can kind of present in. different ways hyperacusis is definitely. its own thing um they think that maybe. something happened to your ear you.

damaged it there's a facial muscle that. that controls it um that controls like. how much your ear um intensifies or. amplifies the sound and if that muscle's. damaged that sound is going to just come. raging through your brain so if you hear. somebody typing on a keyboard you might. have to crawl under your desk and want. to die because it seems like really loud. though not annoying exactly I mean I'm. sure it's annoying but it's the it's the. uh decel level is the issue yeah it. seems to have more of a produce more. more of a physical reaction than just an.

emotional reaction and if it is an. emotional reaction it seems to be more. like suffering than rage yeah. phonophobia they were like okay that's a. separate thing too for now um and that. is a fear of loud sounds and the reason. that it's a phobia is because you're. afraid of loud sounds that can't. actually hurt you like the sound of. traffic or the sound of Emergency. Services yeah an ambulance or something. like a toilet in in a plane so if you. felt fear while you were plugging your. ears and maybe even ran away you would.

probably have. phonophobia no it doesn't reach those. levels it's just uh it bothers me and. I'm not afraid to look like a 5-year-old. in public okay man I want to see that so. bad I'm surprised no I'll surely I've. done that in front of you maybe not I. have not seen it I would definitely. remember that I mean I I know one thing. we've never been in an airplane bathroom. together you know what I'm going to. that's true you know what I'm going to. do is next time we're on tour and we're. hanging out backstage I'm going to start. a fire right and sit around and wait for.

the show that's a great idea uh okay and. then there's misophonia too which is the. topic of this episode yeah and I think. uh they went on you know kind of. studying that stuff for about a dozen. years and then in 2014 is when they said. and this is the the couple the J. jofs yeah yra or is it's probably yra. huh pav yasto is what I'm going with. that sounds so much better than P J Yer. bof J bof Jer bof anyway they got.

together in uh 2014 and said uh dear I. think we should reorganize the stuff and. um Margaret said don't call me deer. we're in a professional environment also. could you chew any louder could you chew. any louder and they said let's just. reorganize our taxonomy here and I. believe what they did was they tucked. the uh the phobia under phonophobia. under misophonia and basically said. there there's pretty much two things.

hyperacusis or misophonia with. phonophobia underneath phonia yeah you. kind of touched on the distinction. between them two hyperacusis is some. sort of mechanical issue they think it's. not in the brain it's just like the. sound itself is being delivered to your. brain way louder than it is to other. people for some reason but with. misophonia phonophobia the the research. seems to strongly suggest that not only. does it have a a neurobiological brain.

basis yeah it also may even have a. genetic basis as well they're starting. to figure out so it is definitely. something going on with your neurology. and again just in 2022 they finally. created a diagnostic definition of. misophonia so it's we we have no idea. what actually causes misophonia but the. studies that are out are pretty. interesting and they seem to point to. something that I I will I I'll point it. out when we get to it but I think it's. the it's the smoking gun it's the reason.

for misophonia if you ask me oo well. that sounds like a fun Cliffhanger oh I. agree all right well you know what they. say if you introduce a Smoking Gun in. act one you have to fire it in act three. that's right so we'll be back right. after this commercial break learning. stuff from josua and. Charles stuff you should know. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].

all right so we're back uh talking. misophonia one thing we should mention. is as the yast. broths there are in there what is going. on with me the yasra offs were doing. their work uh it started to become a uh. just a more known thing on the internet. that in 2011 there was a New York Times. article by uh Joyce Cohen that sort of. got it out there in a more public way.

the growth of Internet forums and Reddit. and stuff like that all of a sudden. people are getting online and saying in. the 2010s and saying like hey wait a. minute like I've been living this my. whole life no one's ever taken me. seriously and that's kind of one of can. be one of the great things about the. internet is bringing people together for. a common ailment that had not previously. been taken seriously yeah for sure that. Joyce Cohen New York Times article from. 2011 by the way is called when a Chomp. or a slurp is a trigger for. outrage and it like you said it really.

helped a lot of people right so um Flash. Forward to 2022 we've got the the. diagnostic um kind of definition of it. and what they figured out is that when. you have a um aout of misophonia when. you're triggered the sound triggers you. MH not only do you have like an. emotional reaction typically it's anger. anxiety disgust and again like this is a. pronounced emotional reaction it's not.

like you're just kind of a little. annoyed like you're disgusted there was. uh Olia helped us with this and she. turned up I think on a Reddit board that. um somebody who if if you heard the. sound of somebody clipping their. toenails oh God so disgusted that you. would not be able to like drink coffee. even 20 minutes later just stuff like. that I like that one so that's that's. discust but I think the kind of the. classic emotion is is Rage or anger. usually associated with it like. so in addition to the emotional.

component there's also a physical. component too and like it's been. documented these things happen to your. body when you're suffering about a. misophonia yeah and they they sort of. smack of sorry I don't even know if. these words trigger like CH smack yeah. probably so I didn't mean to say that. but um you know like anxiety it sort of. mirrors anxiety your blood pressure. might go up you might start sweating you. might get tightness in the chest uh. Goosebumps uh I think I said heart rate.

um and it's it's not necessarily you. know it kind of depends on uh the person. as to whether or not there's a single. trigger that affects you or whether you. have a lot of them it's not always the. same in. everybody and it's uh there's also. behavioral responses like um like you. said like if if maybe Yumi was having a. particularly bad day she might be. glaring at you from across the dinner. table and you're like you know stop with. the fork in your mouth and you're like. what what okay. chunk of spaghetti hanging out of the.

side of my mouth now you know. what yes and I knew what before but. again like I just did not I I hadn't. done the research I hadn't been around. it long enough I've never met anybody. with it before uhhuh so yes I was gosh. man I guess I wasn't a very good husband. for a little while there no you were. fine you just didn't know we're we're. all we're all better people now than we. were when we got together that's true. that's true I like to think that too. Chuck uh but but uh it can lead to like.

you said uh ragy episodes and it it's. pretty rare but it can lead to actual. like violence um suicidal feelings self. harm I think they've documented that. that's almost always isolated to cases. where people have um you know some other. mental condition that is comorbid with. like it may be a last straw kind of. thing uh but it can you know it it's. again just more than an annoyance and I. think that's probably the name of this. episode I think you're right you hit. upon it um there's also some other.

things that studies have turned up they. found that people with misophonia don't. respond to loud noises any different. typically than other people so somebody. with misophonia probably wouldn't. respond with a a misophonia response to. those ambulance sirens right it's more. usually kind of softer. probably wet or something like that um. sounds I'm sorry I'm really trying not. to but it would make sense why the ASMR.

episode set so many people off because. it's exactly those kind of like soft. sounds chewing like that's why if. somebody's like can you chew any louder. you're like I I'm I'm not doing anything. unusual but it's a you're making a soft. sound and that is what they hone in on. so there's no difference between someone. with misophonia and someone without it. as far as loud sounds go it's where the. the softer sounds are and then other. sounds that upset most people again this.

ambulance siren siren well is still very. deep I'm going to go back to it again. okay but also like a baby crying or. something like that who wants to hear. that nobody yeah and that includes. people with misophonia but that doesn't. necessarily trigger rage in them or. misophonia yeah and you know in cases of. babies crying even if you don't have. misophonia um a lot of times that is uh. coupled with lack of sleep from new. parents and it can get pretty severe I. mean we were lucky with the Sleep.

situation but I've heard horror stories. of new parents who are getting you know. 3 hours of sleep a night and a ky baby. it's just it's it's terrible you know I. feel so much I have so much empathy for. those situations uh but uh back to. misophonia I guess I was just. empathizing for a minute um if we're. going to talk about how many people have. this um the. yast did a uh I guess just sort of. a round guess of 3.2% in.

2014 um but they based that on people. who came in seeking treatment that also. usually had. tenidis uh and obviously you know we've. said this before about lots of things. you can't really base a number like that. on people who seek help because so many. people don't especially when it's. something like this that's under. diagnosed and treated right so other. other like people who've studied it are. are saying no it's more like 20% of the.

entire. population um which is that's a lot of. people who misophonia they also think. that um women are uh over represented. among people with misophonia as much as. 83% of PE people with M misophonia might. be women um and then there's one other. very important thing that we need to. point out um people with misophonia do. not have better or more acute hearing. than anybody else that's not the problem. yeah that's not it it's it's it's a.

difference in the way their brain is. connected is what it seems like yeah. well we should I mean that's a good. setup for getting into the brain thank. you I've been doing this for years. now if if you're wondering if they ever. stuck somebody into a Wonder machine and. smack some uh oatmeal in their ears oh. my God then the answer is yes of course. they have uh they have done experiments. um but as we'll see there haven't been a. ton of them cuz it is so new and. probably underfunded uh but they did PE.

put people in an fmri uh machine the. Wonder machine and they found that the. interior insular cortex the AIC which. and this makes total sense it helps. integrate sensory data uh from like. organs and stuff like that but um it. it's also associated with the parts of. the brain that are responsible for like. emotion fear uh long-term memory and. stuff like that yes here's this is where. where I think uh The Smoking Gun is the.

AIC act two we're a little early because. well I haven't fired it yet okay I'm. about to though the uh anterior insular. cortex is also a major component of. What's called the salience network which. is the the region or the network of your. brain that takes stimuli from the. environment like you said from even down. to your internal organs and sorts. through all of it and says not important. not important not important oh that's. important and amplifies it up the chain. and it keeps getting Amplified and.

passing through more and more filters. until it becomes. um the brain's awareness or attention. becomes focused on it right so that. salience network is like that's. important we need to we need to let the. brain's Consciousness like in on this. thing and now all of a sudden you're. paying attention to that stimulus what. they think what I think in particular is. that there's a hyper activity. and or hyperconnectivity.

within the AIC that takes things that. other people are able to filter out and. turns them into uh a sound that can. trigger you emotionally and it's because. your your salience network is basically. supercharged so that would actually back. up what they did with the uh studies. with the MRI scans not the fmri. correct yeah where they they turned up. the medial frontal cortex. yeah well they what they found was um.

the what what you just said the medial. frontal cores uh if you have misophonia. they have more myelin which we've talked. about before uh it's a fatty substance. that insulates the nerve cells but. they're saying that uh the excess of. myelin kind of backs up the idea of that. hyperconnectivity with the uh the. anterior insular cortex Boom the gun has. just been fired is now smoking bright. red white and blue smoke yeah it's a. Nerf gun of course people we're you know.

yeah for sure um there's one other thing. that seems to be a bit of a boond dogle. in misophonia research and that is that. there's a a uh Theory or I guess a. school of thought that it's actually. triggered by overactive mirror neurons. in somebody oh our old friends and in. particular the um the the the motor. cortex that has to do again with Oro. facial movements that those mirror ner. neurons are hyperactive and that when.

you see somebody or hear somebody. chewing it triggers those mirror neurons. and it creates a reaction a response in. you that you can't control because your. mirror neurons have have taken over that. seems to be. untrue okay well even so we did an. episode about mirror neurons many many. many years ago uh that it's still super. interesting to me uh and just the the. quickest sort of summation is the idea. of mirror neurons are like when you see. someone on in a football game on TV like.

break their leg in a painful way and you. you literally feel that in your own leg. Yeah I mean that's the the dumb down. version but that's what we're talking. about no I mean that's a that's a great. example when I when I watch sports um. like I find myself like leaning like if. the guy's trying to avoid a tackle I'll. like turn as well it doesn't help the. guy at all but it it I can't I can't. stop myself I I've noticed it because. I'll be on the the treadmill watching. like basketball or something and all of.

a sudden I'm like off off balance a. little bit cuz I'm moving along with the. guy who's like doing a layup I've seen. people do that when they're gaming like. firsters games that's the exact same. thing I think yeah moving their body. around in weird ways uh it's it's pretty. interesting like if you train a camera. on somebody gaming yeah um you did. mention genetics uh it may have a. genetic component um I think they did. just an analysis um. on what's called a GW a genomewide.

Association study about just rage. related. misophonia and they found that it does. cluster with uh PTSD anxiety and. depression which indicates it could you. know have a genetic component right yes. which makes sense for sure I didn't see. the gene that they they targeted it to. but I didn't either it does seem to be. related genetically there's also there's. a um researcher from Oxford named Jane. Gregory who also suffers from misophonia. and um she posits that that misophonia.

could be like um a relic like an. evolutionary Relic from back when it was. advantageous for a group to have a few. people who responded to. sound like way more than other people. because they essentially served as like. alarms for the rest of the group all. right I can Mak sense it's I mean this. is the place that we're at in misophonia. research you can just toss stuff out. like that and be like yeah. probably yeah it's also uh can be.

comorbid with uh. misokinesia and that is when you have a. misophonia like response to someone's. fidgety motions yeah so it I think um. someone clicking a pin can be a. misophonia trigger but that's also sort. of a fidgety thing so uh that kind of. makes sense I think yeah if you want to. empathize with people who have. misophonia and misokinesia go on to. Reddit actually any any condition that. could be debilitating go onto Reddit and.

look at the Reddit board for that. condition and your heart will just go. out to people um and I I I I looked at. the misokinesia Reddit board and just. the the first few posts are like the. language they use like like want to die. can't live like this they're not they're. not they're not talking about self harm. they're saying like it's so like like. this is just Bonkers out of control and. they're talking about being in class and. everyone just kind of bouncing their. knee and they like they they're just so.

overwhelmed by that and unable to not. pay attention to it that they just feel. like they're losing their minds in in. just the worst way it's really awful um. and I'm not overstating the way that. they describe it at all oh I'm sure one. thing I did notice though on the. misokinesia board is um one poster said. or sorry One op said that um they. counteracted the experience by I guess. gu kind of like um.

mirroring what the person was doing so. if somebody's bouncing their knee they. use their hand to just kind of keep time. with the person's knee and it somehow. counteracted or short circuited the. misokinesia in them right then well I. mean they've said the same thing with. misophonia is that sometimes people will. make that sound themselves to counteract. it and that can help yes so if you're. ever clicking a pen and your coworker. stands up and just shouts click click. click click click they probably are. having a misophonic episode right then.

yeah for sure and you should stop. clicking your pen uh it can you know it. can affect obviously the workplace in. negative ways but um it can also affect. your relationships and your your family. um it can it has been described as. contagious in a way because if you're. let's say in a close relationship maybe. like married to somebody or coupled up. with someone or living with someone with. misophonia you might become very attuned. to their trigger sounds and it's not the. same as having misophonia but it's it is.

contagious in a way in that all of a. sudden like if you then were um just. really on the lookout for the sound of. people you know chewing their food right. because of being married to Yumi that um. obviously it's not as bad for you but it. can get into your brain and sort of take. over in a way yeah and I don't think. it's like uh it could trigger misophonia. and somebody else I don't buy that what. I think is is you just become. hypervigilant on behalf of. because them you Coulda angry at daring.

tow around them because you know what. it's doing to them that's what I take. that as no no absolutely um but I think. that they say it uh it can be worse with. people that are close to you right than. like out in a restaurant with a random. stranger you might get more bothered by. your your family members your coupled. person yes if you have misophonia. usually it's the people who are closest. to you that can set you off the easiest. right with you with your spaghetti.

hanging up your mouth I've not figured. out exactly why my guess would be that. they know that you know what they're. going through and you're still doing it. maybe they you seem very thoughtless or. careless yeah right then that would be. that would be mine um my guess but there. there's a huge component of this that I. think really kind of supports that. salience Network hypothesis of mine. let's hear it um and that is that the. sounds seem to have also like a personal.

emotional component to them like the yra. offs their their theory is that like the. limic system is very much involved which. would explain why emotions there so if. you combine the lyic system with the. sence network the emotions you're. feeling are like personal it it feels. personal to you hence why you would feel. something like outrage or profound. disgust or something like that you feel. like you're being personally attacked. right then oh yeah that makes sense yeah. like your brain has told you this is a. very very important stimulus and you.

need to respond to it in kind that's. that's the salience. hypothesis I like it can we call it the. Josh Clark salience hypothesis I've been. hoping you would say that all episode. The J CSH it almost spells Josh it does. can we rework that sure yeah can you. turn that scene into a. no well sure can you turn my last name. into a no I wasn't sure if you knew what. you were saying so I was giving you a.

back door but no no I knew it Josh o. Clark I just did it for you hey you may. have been at one point you never know uh. all right so we'll let's take a break. now and we'll come back and talk about. uh what you probably think is coming. which are Myriad um forms of CBT. behavioral therapies right after this. learning stuff from josua and. Char stuff you should.

[Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. know so one of the saddest things about. misophonia and misokinesia um aside from. the fact that people suffer from it is. that they're like the treatment. landscape is so hit or miss there's so. little um widespread information out. there among clinicians that you very. well might go to see a ENT or a.

psychologist or a psychiatrist or um. even like a neurologist that's. particularly uninformed who might. basically say this is your problem wear. earplugs like just relax go do. mindfulness or something like that um. and some of that stuff can help but if. that's all you're being met with like. that's not that's no treatment. whatsoever so fortunately there are. people who have really started to study. how to treat it and one of the things. that um they've discovered is that good.

old cognitive behavioral therapy CBT mhm. uh seems to work for it at least as far. as any decent study has has shown it. definitely has some effect compared to. control groups yeah there was a a trial. in 2020 uh randomized clinical trial. that found that there was significant. Improvement in. 37% uh of the group that completed CBT. versus 0% for the control group and that. a year later those 37% seem to be.

holding which is great yeah that's what. they call statistically significant I. would say so um we also should mention. as we're going through these uh various. treatments there are good people doing a. lot of great work uh but there are also. you know just be wary there are also. people online that are uh just lining up. to take your money uh to help you with. this that may be. quacky yes so like if somebody has. earplugs that the description almost.

makes seem magical you should steer. clear of that yeah or if somebody says. this supplement or this Crystal or this. Tarot deck is going to help you it's. it's not so just don't um go seek out a. neurologist a neuros psychologist or. neuros psychiatrist I should say um and. they should be able to help you do. research yourself and say Hey I want CBT. or I want to try something called. unified protocol um which is called a.

trans diagnostic therapy meaning that. you can use it for all sorts of. different things that stir up strong. emotions it it basically like CBT it. gives you tools to. identify when what triggers your. emotional reactions what you feel like. when you're having that emotional. reaction how to um how to deal when. you're having that emotional reaction. and then also if you're lucky how to. distance yourself from the emotional. reaction and the trick that causes.

it yeah I think there are lots of um I. feel like all of these are sort of just. a uh a reskinned version of the same. kind of thing which is which are are. those therapies identifying uh. mindfulness recognizing. behaviors uh learning you know one thing. called cognitive flexibility like kind. of retraining your brain um the one. that's a little different I think is the. uh tenus retrain training therapy uh the. trt they've been using for misophonia it.

seems like with some pretty good results. um it's basically sound therapy where. you have a wearable device that plays. like a very low-level um like white. noise or pink noise whatever your noise. of whatever color noise you prefer I. guess m um but just below the volume uh. threshold of that trigger sound uh and. the Yas St offs say that 80% of the. patients that have tried that have had. pretty good success yeah the the key is.

you want to gradually increase like the. volume of that trigger. sound against the background of that. pink noise um so that you can you're. basically it's a type of exposure. therapy which is very controversial with. misophonia yeah for sure um a lot of. people say do not try exposure therapy. that does not work and actually it makes. it worse because what you're doing is. enraging yourself and all you're doing. is strengthening that neural pathway. that triggers that rage in the first. place so it's not only not helpful it's.

actually counterproductive other people. say no no no you can do certain types of. exposure therapy like the yops trt with. the pink noise um but if you do start to. have an emotional response stop like. anybody who has any understanding there. as as a healthc care provider of. misophonia will tell you that if you. have an emotional response to misophonia. while you're trying to to while you're. under undergoing treatment stop the.

treatment get away from the sound that's. the that's like best practices if. somebody's trying to force you to just. hang in there through it during exposure. therapy you're being treated by a quack. and you need to find somebody else to. help you because they don't understand. misophonia yeah there's uh this one I. don't fully understand this is Jane. Gregory again from Oxford uh she has. worked on a situation where uh or I. guess a therapy where she tries to. create a different Association with that. sound MH uh and she did this in one case.

at least by riding one of those like it. uh amusement park like Disney World I. guess like a a dizzy ride like a. spinning teacup ride while listening to. uh what was it in this case her husband. slurping tea yeah Josh eating spaghetti. right uh which makes sense in a way but. then like wouldn't that just make you. dizzy wouldn't you want to choose. something that's uh not also awful. I think that what she was she love those.

rides she must love those rides and also. I think she was after making the whole. thing silly so like when she heard her. husband slurp tea she would think about. spinning around in a teacup and and that. might kind of disarm her Rage or. something like I guess I hear that and. I'm like th those are the worst rides. because it just makes me sick to my. stomach so no I'm I'm totally with you. maybe the uh yeah I get it but yeah so. that is a weird weird example but what. the basis of that therapy is is that. you're you're you're listening to the.

trigger sound while also doing something. else or learning to associate it with. something else that's not that horrible. emotional reaction yeah okay well that. makes sense and then also Chuck there's. so there's self- treatment for. misophonia that people have discovered. along the way like um listen like. wearing noise cancelling headphones yeah. wearing headphones um where you're. listening to Pink noise or some kind of. noise or music like just putting a. barrier between you and any any um sound.

that you know might trigger you um and. then there's there's other techniques. too but they're very sad like not eating. with your family because you are. probably going to get triggered and it's. sad but that's a really effective. intervention for. misophonia yeah there's um a woman named. shayen Hayes Raymond who is a co-founder. of a of misophonia International and her. whole Jam is like self- advocacy so you.

know don't just um you know it's okay to. tell your family that um hey can you try. and avoid these triggering sounds can. you be aware of what I'm going through. uh can you understand if I have to leave. the room during like a big family meal. can you go stand the subreddit on. misophonia yeah sort of uh but to. advocate for yourself um also and things. like noise cancelling headphones like. you mentioned yeah uh or just like. getting out of there like you said like. leaving the room because from what I've.

seen it it calms down pretty quickly if. you can remove yourself from the sound. you don't stay in that state for you. know hours uh generally from what I've. seen that right yes yeah it can it can. pass fairly quickly so that's the good. news yeah and then also the good news is. that there are smart people who have. begun to study this in addition to the. yra offs who are making some Headway so. hopefully there will be some sort of. like verifiable cure or treatment for it.

in the not too distant future yeah I. mean if we're talking about a thing. that's just been seriously looked at in. the last 20 years uh you you'd imagine. there'll be a lot of uh Headway made and. I think just getting like an episode out. here uh for people that maybe have been. like poking fun at someone in their life. not taking it as seriously like. hopefully this will help that you know. yeah we the Joyce Cohen of. podcasting did you get that I did I mean.

that was uh oh no no I'm sorry I thought. you were talking about the S Advocate. who's Joyce Goen she's the woman who. wrote the 2011 New York Times article. that told everybody who was suffering. from misophonia that that was a real. thing it was the other person I got it I. thought you were saying Joyce. Brothers who won on oh what was that. show quiz quiz Show Network stars no it. was like quiz show remember she won like. big time on a game show and like you had.

to pick what topic you wanted to be. deeply quizzed on and she chose boxing. and just wipe the floor with her. opponent oh wow yep that was on our game. show episode really I don't remember. that that for some reason that always. stuck out to me Joyce Brothers in boxing. it's like kind of cognitive dissonance. that just stuck with me yeah totally uh. you got anything else on misophonia nope. well our heart goes out to all of you. out there listening to us who have aonia. uh we hope we didn't trigger you we hope. we've never triggered you uh and sorry.

again about that uh time with the ASMR. uh and since I said that it's time for. listener. mail uh I'm going to call this is very. interesting Irish famine connection okay. uh Hey guys listen every day on my drive. to work in rural Ireland uh luckily an. episode is uh just right link for my 40m. trip on the select episode this is about. an old one uh from famin in 2017. you did a nice job describing the nature. of the Irish famine but rather than.

bemoon the terrible response of the. British rulers I wanted to celebrate the. amazing uh gesture of the chock to. nation of Americans of uh sorry Native. Americans who upon hearing of the plight. of the Irish people during the famine. gathered up. $170 at the time which was you know. fairly significant money uh to send over. for help this incredible Act of. generosity came from a people who had. only recently themselves suffered. terribly during the infamous tra here. showing the true nature of them as a. people uh this kindness had never been.

forgotten has never been forgotten and. thankfully now that Ireland is a country. of significant wealth we've been able to. give back uh there's been a spectacular. Monument erected in honor of the Chaka. Irish connection and also a university. scholarship Pro uh program in and that's. program with two M's and an e uh in Cork. where members of the chock down Nation. can Avail of a fully paid uh bed or. master's degree sbed is an undergrad. yeah uh and living expenses paid also.

wow uh this is something I teach my. students in geography classes on. migration at a high school level as I. think it is so important to recognize. the and that's recognized with an. S uh the incredible human acts that take. place in these terrible moments really. enjoy the variety of things you cover. and thanks for looking beyond the potato. in Irish history and that is from Bob. Grace in count County Carlo that's all. awesome thanks a lot Bob super cool yeah. that's wonderful I had no idea about the.

the scholarship did you I feel like we I. feel like we mentioned that in another. episode I don't remember which one maybe. Trail of Tears oh really I don't. remember cuz yeah it does sound familiar. but I definitely don't remember the. college scholarship thing so way to go. Bob well you know me I've forgotten. anyway so I'm I'm happy to relearn it. it's awesome I wish I were you you could. just watch movies over and over again. I'm like a m that guy momento yeah Guy. Pierce yeah uh if you want to get in.

touch with us like Bob Grace did with a. great story we want to hear it you can. send it off via email to stuff podcast. iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts iHeart. Radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.