Ludwig II: The Only Real King of the 19th Century | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and this is stuff. you should. know the. um fairy tale King Edition I guess yeah. the one and only it's the best I could. come up with I love I love stories of uh. allegedly mad Kings mhm I've spoken.

before about The Madness of King George. the great film sure and uh I'm surprised. no one's done a movie about this. character I am too as a matter of fact. because even if he's not that well known. and he's pretty well known yeah his his. castle is certainly extraordinarily well. known sure which one well yeah he he. made three castles as we'll see but the. one that really takes the cake is n. vinin.

which means new Swan Stone do you want. to know the German pronunciation I just. gave. [Laughter]. it uh noan. Stein that's what I said oh okay. great is it really yeah that for EI it's. always the second letter in German no. and then noi is it's not new it's annoy. gotcha so uh yeah I'll just call it new. Swan Stone Castle then from now on yeah.

that's what it means right all right let. me try my my hand at this okay ludig II. and we're saying the W like a V correct. uh yeah yeah let's do it okay ludvig II. known as the fairy tale King in German. fairy tale King is D mark and. kunig yeah you just got to work on your. umls I thought I nailed it so okay what. is that one then I think that would be. uh Merin Merin.

kig okay well at any rate I love these. words I just can't pronounce them at all. hey I'm going on uh German I learned in. 1988 and ' 89 and well you you still. little bit 91 and '92 I don't know if I. do or not so as we'll see um even if you. haven't heard of lwig uh or ludvig um he. is a really appealing character in. history he was a real real character but.

he was I think he kind of TAPS into this. Universal desire that everybody has. every once in a while or some people. have more than others but we all like. face times and circumstances and and. consequences that make us just want to. turn away from the world turn inward. into like a fantasy world of our own. making where we can be happy and most of. us don't go actually do that ludic II. did just that because he had the. opportunity and he had the means to do.

it and I think in that sense he's he's. appealing in a lot of ways plus he's a. deeply tragic romantic figure as well. yeah as as they say it's good to be the. King right sure sure in his case for a. little while at least uh well actually. for a long while he had a nice run he. did 20s something years uh but let's set. up the stage of kind of what was going. on when he came about in Southeastern. Germany uh what was known as Bavaria and. they still called that area Bavaria did.

you like that it did but back then it. was just Bavaria uh it had its own you. know it was independent it had its own. taxes and um it had its own Constitution. um but it was surrounded by just a a lot. of upheaval in Europe at the time right. and when he was born to Crown Prince. ludvig II he was born in. 1845 I'm sorry that was his name he was. born to King Maximillion II right and. Marie of Prussia had a brother named.

Otto who suffered from mental illness. looked like probably. schizophrenia and his aunt princess. Alexandra also suffered uh from some. sort of mental illness uh because she. believed one of the things she believed. that she had uh swallowed a piano made. of glass when she was a kid and it she. was protecting it and if she moved the. wrong way it could shatter and the. reason we bring those two cases up is. because uh ludvig's own mental um.

capabilities would be questioned later. in life and so you obviously look to the. family A lot of times and say hey he. also had this in his bloodline yeah I. had an uncle who thought he was St. Jerome right so um ludig was born into. like like you said this really strange. time or time of turmoil geopolitically. and um like you said Bavaria was an. independent state it was a kingdom and. it was one of the last the one of the. last kingdoms like in the area things. were moving more toward um a more of a.

nation state more of um uh less monarchy. more Constitution kind of thing right. and um Germany was very much on the. brink of basically being brought. together into the modern Germany that we. think of it now this happened when. Ludwig was uh I think 18 or 19 or 20. years old basically I think he rose to. the throne at 18 okay uh one thing we. should set up though just you know as. far as his uh his Palace that he would. later go on a build that he's famous for.

uh he grew up in these kinds of palaces. obviously is royalty in Bavaria at the. time uh the place where he was mainly. raised was called uh hoen shanga Castle. uh even though he was born in. nymphenburg Palace but both of these. places if you're looking at you know. quality castles they were both pretty. amazing growing up in these places. little ludvig was like you know this. established his aesthetic of what he. thought was amazing and beautiful yeah.

and uh there's a quote from his mom that. said that as a child he enjoyed dressing. up took pleasure in play acting loved. pictures and liked making presents of. his property money and other possessions. does that mean like giving it away yeah. exactly like here I want you to have. this that's that's that's a good kid. right not exactly like King type. behavior and as we'll see he basically. set the set the stage for himself or set. the tempo for himself from a very early. age it turns out so I think like you. said he was 18 when his father died and.

he ascended to the throne he became king. of Bavaria in 1864 and he felt totally. unprepared for it yeah he was not. excited about it like a lot of you know. kind of boy kings were uh he had never. he wasn't very well schooled seems very. sheltered didn't travel abroad really uh. never wanted anything to do with you. know kinging or or anything like that um. kind of throughout his life it seems. like and he was a total pacifist at a. time where there was a lot of Waring. going on he said it corrupts people's.

morals makes them unable to entertain. Grand Noble ideals dulls them for. Spiritual enjoyment so he was a he was a. a pacifist yeah he was also very much. opposed to hunting and he loved nature. right I love this guy so he was. apprehensive um he did have a really. good education he just felt like he. didn't have enough of it to qualify as a. a ruler of a kingdom but that's that's. the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. sorry king um but when he came to power.

within just a couple of years despite. his pacifist leanings um Bavaria was. forced into two different Wars and as a. result of that the geopolitical map. changed dramatically yeah for sure um. they were allied with Australia because. of royal bloodlines you said Australia. did really yeah all right so so remove. the. L and there's a couple I think another. vowel or so that needs to I think. another a uh clearly meant Austria they.

were allied with Austria uh who knows. what he thought about Australia no one. ever asked as far as I know right and so. when Prussia came knocking on the door. for the seven weeks War uh that he was. sort of forced to fight with Austria uh. and then they got their butts whipped. pretty good and then uh Bavaria was part. of or at least under the thumb of. Prussia to the North and then when the. Franco Prussian War started then they. had to fight with Prussia yeah and then. after the Franco Prussian War the.

prussians came out on top and at that. point they're like all right you know. what we're just going to take over all. of Germany and they established the. first Reich the German Empire that. collected all these separate little. kingdoms including Bavaria and put them. under the rule of Prussia but rather. than being Prussia the whole group the. whole collection that was now combined. was Germany as we as we recognize it. today although a little more because. there's a bunch of Poland that was also. part of Prussia that would be included.

in that map of Germany but that was an. enormous huge change and for um lwig II. personally it meant that he was he had. no power any longer he was a a. ceremonial figurehead and geopolitically. speaking he really was not very. significant at all yeah so I imagine I. mean from everything I know about uh. poor little ludvig this probably wasn't. the worst thing in the world because all.

of a sudden he was forced into a um. figurehead sort of role right and I get. the idea that that was probably ideal. for him like he didn't he didn't want to. govern he it seems like he didn't mind. doing the day-to-day bureaucracy of the. job yes and like you know signing the. things he needed to sign and allocating. the things he needed to allocate but he. he was not interested in being King and. so all of a sudden sort of under this. new um I mean sort of prote in a way as.

being part of the German Empire and only. having figurehead duties he was free to. be a fanciful uh boy King yeah and to. add a little Nuance he was totally fine. with being King but he wanted to be like. an absolute monarch like God's Divine. representative on earth like the kings. of the centuries before were considered. but that wasn't happening even if. Prussia wasn't running the show because. by that time Bavaria had become a. constitutional monarchy so even before.

um the German Empire was founded uh he. wasn't nearly as powerful a king as he. would have liked to have been so yeah. that combined with his pacifism combined. with his prone proness to Fantasy he was. like yes this is my chance I'll see yall. later I'm going to go over here into. this little fantasy world it's going to. be awesome yeah he got to kind basically. pretend that he was the king that he. wasn't um yes yeah well put and he was a. romanticist he was very much into. romanticism. uh it was that something that had.

already come and gone uh but just like. so many uh teenagers are obsessed with. the generations before them he loved the. the literature and the Art of the. movement um obviously Romanticism was. all about emotion and and art and uh and. vast. imagination and uh and history and so. all of this sort of wrapped up in this. idea that he was like all right well I'm. I'm going to pretend like I'm uh Louis. the 14th um.

and. basically uh sit around all day and. fantasize right and then also really. importantly one part of Romanticism the. architectural part of is called. historicism yeah and uh it's basically a. nostalgic return to past architectural. Styles but rather than going for. historical accuracy you go for. idealization or Improvement um so it it. ends up being like this fantasy version.

of what used to be yeah more gilded. things exactly that totally jbed with. how Ludwig like to live and think should. we take a break yeah let's well this. one's been densely packed so far yeah. there's a lot of geopolitics a lot of. architecture historic movements what. else no that's about it oh okay. pronunciation yeah don't forget that all. right we'll be right back. [Music].

[Music]. all right so welcome to act two this is. where we talk about um the um the.

private life of ludvig and I love how. Livia put it in this section title no. that was me oh that was you yeah oh that. sounded a little bit like Livia but now. I see Josh all over it okay uh was. ludvig gay yes yes he was uh and that's. the deal ludvig was a gay man a gay King. uh he was um sort of arranged to be. marriage uh married to his 22-year-old. cousin Elsa which was a who was a. duchess in in not Australia but in.

Austria and not surprisingly he did not. go through with that wedding uh he. blamed it on the. father-in-law um and that was just a. deal he besed up with Elsa's sister. Empress Elizabeth and they were peas in. a pod yeah they both had a disdain for. war and violence they both loved. classical literature they both like. their Solitude uh and so much so that. ludvig when he had his birthday parties. most of the people who were ever in Ed. were the people who already worked for.

him like his attendants and and servants. they would dress up and come to the. parties as guests um that's how how much. of a loner he was and he liked it that. way um and he was also not. exactly um quiet about his um sexual. orientation um which is really something. at the time I mean we're talking about. the late 19th century in Bavaria this is. the king and he's he's just he not. exactly making it a huge secret and in.

fact while he was alive it was like a. very open secret that that Ludwig. enjoyed the company of men as they would. have put it back then yeah they uh when. you were listing out the the shared. loves that he and Empress Elizabeth had. you left one out though they both love. Sean. Cassidy Sean Cassidy what was his one. hit he just had the one right I don't. know I don't know I remember remember. though they we were all in love with him.

yeah he had that great feathered hair me. ludvig the whole all of us sure so like. you said his relationships were no it. was sort of like one of those open. Secrets uh when um he had fixers you. know he was the king so when something. happened uh people would you know would. clean up after him um I think there were. men in the staes that he was very fond. of and and perhaps had uh you know. physical relationships with one man. named Richard hornig uh who would.

eventually be his private secretary and. there was also a groom named Carl. Hessel uh who was sort of his traveling. valet and apparently wingman because. would help him find sexual partners. right but anytime something like this. would happen uh and it got to you know. uh sort of the rumors became widespread. like people would just and I was about. to say people would disappear they. wouldn't like have them snuffed out or. anything but people would be relocated. with other jobs and stuff like that yeah.

and we know all this because he wrote a. lot about this in his diary entries um. and from what I gleaned from it he would. basically pull out all the stops for his. dates like there'd be champagne and. candles and and gifts and stuff like. that bottle service yeah basically you. got to do it yeah but also in his diary. very sadly he was a devout very Pious. Catholic so he had a lot of inner. turmoil um that that he was conflicted.

between his um religious beliefs and his. sexual orientation and um so in that. sense that's like just one leg of the. stool that make him a tragic figure yeah. absolutely um one thing that we uh. aren't as clear about as far as uh. relationship goes is his relationship to. composer uh Richard Vagner uh he was a. big big fan of Vagner since he was a. little kid and once he became king and. had me. uh he found Vagner sort of on Hard Times.

financially and was able to basically. say like hey I love your music um you're. not doing too well so why don't you let. me financially support you yeah and. you'll kind of just be like my private. Entertainer I mean you can still go on. and make your great compositions but you. can also do these private operas and. private concerts here in the court and. uh it was a mutually beneficial. relationship for both of them yeah he. was considered L ludvig was considered.

one of the great patrons of the Arts of. the 19th century and he actually made. Munich which was the the capital of. Bavaria um essentially the music capital. of Europe during the time yeah and to. give you an idea of like what people who. were into. Romanticism what they talked like in. their letters back then yeah there's a. really great quote about Vagner that he. wrote to I think his mistress who would. eventually become his wife kosa um he he. said he is unfortunately so beautiful.

and wise Soulful and lordly that I fear. his life must fade away like a Divine. dream in this base world that's great. yeah so this is what he's writing to his. wife about this new Patron he has um and. Vagner was into women he he had a. long-standing affair with the woman like. I said who had become his wife um but if. you read some of their letters and even. taking into account that people. expressed friendship much differently.

than they do today yeah between men. especially um even taking that into. account like the flowery language they. would use and just the desperation they. would have at being a part it's still. not 100% clear what all went down. between Vagner and lud viig when it was. just the two of them hanging out in a. castle yeah for sure there was one quote. uh that Vagner wrote I think two L big. right uh after they had been you know in.

in each other's company he wrote this. how can I find words to describe you the. magic of this hour I am in your angelic. arms we are near to one another MH uh so. you know that reads is you know possibly. something happening there and I'm. certainly no expert but uh was it this. you or Olia that found the lgtbq history. writer Olia found that guy yeah it's a. guy named Richard Norton uh wrote that. their relationship was almost certainly. physical though not necessarily G genal. mhm so I mean it seems like if that's.

correct or if that you know he's he's. you know it's a supposition but if. that's correct then it may be the case. of a uh a young uh wealthy Patron who is. around his Idol and the idol maybe you. know giving the patron just some extra. time and affection uh to stay in the in. the good graces and to stay funded um. maybe like like who knows what happened. behind closed doors but that's at least. Richard Norton's take yeah and.

ultimately it doesn't matter what. happened I think the point is is that. ludig was a gay icon before there were. such things as gay icons and he still is. today it's just Palace Intrigue. basically yeah exactly so um from the. moment uh Vagner showed up or was. invited to court through ludvig's death. uh he was supported by ludvig. financially and there's um it's pretty. widely agreed that had lud not supported. Vagner he probably would not have been.

able to create a lot of the compositions. that he he came up with yeah for sure so. in that sense ludvig II gave the world a. lot of vogner's later work and if you're. familiar with Vagner and his um uh. Germanic. nationalism he was also an anti-semite. and one of the cool things about ludvig. is he objected to his friend's. anti-Semitism he didn't just turn a. blind eye to it oh nice yeah he was a he. was a great guy the more I find out.

about him the more I just love him. totally uh so the other thing that he. was really into like we kind of. mentioned early was architecture uh. especially romanticist stuff uh sort of. Byzantine influences and Roman kind of. stuff right Byzantine as Roman I guess. but um he loved to build things he loved. to take on these big projects uh even. though he did not hunt and was against. it he built a lavish hunting Retreat uh. he built these three palaces that you. mentioned earlier. and the uh UNESCO world heritage sites.

had this to say of the Palaces uh the. Monarch created artificial alternative. worlds in which he could immerse himself. in Far distant places and past eras. their main function was to simulate. literary and ideal fantasy worlds as. realistically as possible using. architecture art and technology in order. to produce an. all-encompassing experience a perfect. illusion yeah that says it all I left it. out this quote but it also goes on to.

say he was also a really big fan of. Australia. right so they said something UNESCO said. something they used the word technology. and that was part of that historicism. that you took something that you loved. about the past but you improved it you. made it better and part of that was. using modern technology and ludvig was a. eager enthusiastic early adopter of um. new technology in particular electricity. and he he was using this stuff in the.

1870s it's worth pointing out Edison did. not invent the light bulb but he did. produce the the first best incandescent. light bulb that wasn't until 1880 ludvig. was already using light bulbs and. electricity in the decade before that. yeah and using them as every lovely. Outdoor Cafe does with like string. lights MH uh he had a artificial cave. and this is at lindorf Castle right he. had an artificial cave in a lake which. had these colored lights.

everywhere uh he eventually would build. a recreation of versailes on a lake. Island uh I believe it's called Uh oh. jeez this is a tough one Heron shimy. Palace uh but that. was huh what do you think it. is I don't know but that sounds like a. town along the Mississippi it didn't. sound German at all well it doesn't look. German I don't think it's I don't think. it is German I think it.

is. herin. herin hey I don't how would you say it I. think I liked what you just said I'm. just gonna stick with that I'm not. attempting it I'm just making fun that's. all okay nice work thanks uh that was. never finished um but they did finish. some sections um but his most famous the. one that we're going to kind of focus on. is uh you want to try it again tough guy. uh uh New.

swanstone nanstein. Castle uh which I mean you got to look. this thing up it's it's unbelievable I. say we take a break and then come back. and talk about no. vonstein steam man Stein no it is Stein. you're right oh you now you're just. confusing me uh we'll be right back. [Music].

[Music]. okay everybody so we talked about a. couple of other castles um but no novon. Stein. uh is the one that is most associated.

with ludvig II the first one linderhof. was considered this technological. amusement park um the other one that you. said was like a recreation of Versailles. nanstein was the most magicall looking. Recreation of what's called Romanesque. architecture that you would just think. of essentially as like it was just like. Sleeping Beauty's castle at Disney World. and Disneyland so much so that he must. have been inspired by.

that are we putting a pin in that or. talking about that we can talk about it. yeah I mean supposedly Walt Disney uh. visited that castle with his wife in the. 1950s M and if you look at the the main. Castle there in Disney World and I guess. Disneyland has one too right I've never. been there yeah uh it looks a heck of a. lot like. nanstein yeah and I I think it it is. 100% certain that he modeled it after. that and if you see it like even if it. wasn't 100% certain you'd be like yeah.

he totally modeled it after that it. looks like a fairy tale castle if you. are not driving right now and you're. just sitting around you have your phone. or your computer um a full set of. encyclopedias or at least the ends um. look up a picture of no fonstein it is. amazing breathtaking it's the it's the. definition of the word breathtaking yeah. it is gorgeous uh it sits on a a top of. a mountain and like these are the. mountains that have those you know it.

looks like the the castle and Frozen. like it sits on a tiny little Peak M um. not for defense but he loved the view. there if you if you look out from the. castle you the the beautiful mountain. ranges you have the it's very small Lake. but the Shon SE is right there uh you. can actually see the two castles from uh. the video I saw online was a guy. standing on the the deck or not the. decking but whatever you would call the. the outdoor areas the Dance Floor. hey come out to the.

deck or a patio The Hardscape it's got. to be something more Grand than those. words for what those were but anyway. what we would call like the outdoor. patio sure of uh hoen fanga and right. there in the background you can see uh. no fonstein and they're only about a. mile from each other I I I'm guessing. it's the crow flies but it's just a. gorgeous scene yeah it really is I mean. whether it's summer fall winter in. particular with the snow on. mag it's gorgeous and like we said um.

ludvig was a early adopter of Technology. one of the things that he used or his. con uh construction people had to use. was steam powered cranes yeah because. this was not an easy place to build and. it was a pretty massive castle made of. very heavy brick and stone um and in. addition to that he had things like uh. an elevator yeah in fact he had Ane. elator table so remember we said that he.

he enjoyed his. Solitude yes in particular he. appreciated dining alone he didn't even. want servants around serving him so what. he would do is sit uh at the table um in. his dining room and the table would. lower down I think three stories to the. kitchen the table would be set all the. food would be put on and then it would. be raised back up for him to dine that's. how remote he wanted to be from people. when he didn't want to be around.

people so I don't quite quite follow. that. actually imagine it's like a dumb waiter. but the whole table is the dumb waiter. yeah but he would be sitting at it when. it was doing this well no so he would. stay seated up in the dining room and. the table would go down the kitchen and. then the table would come back up all. set and and resplendant with a feast and. then he that makes sense I thought he. wrote it down they set the table with. the food D and then he rote it back up.

and I was like that doesn't I mean. that's a lot of fun but that doesn't. prevent him from seeing anybody ex got. you dinner time right uh so the throne. room was is pretty impressive you can. you know see pictures and videos of all. the stuff like full tours online uh that. was where the Byzantine influence really. came in um it has a 13 foot tall. chandelier never had a throne in it um. but you know this stuff is is as over. the top as it gets uh when you look at. pictures and videos it's really I mean.

it's not my style obviously and I've. never like castles are kind of fun I've. toured a couple um none of it. aesthetically is like o that's beautiful. to me right but the the ornate qualities. of it I can. appreciate yeah for sure and I think. photos don't do it justice either. especially like interior photos of these. rooms they all just seem garish and Gody. and they are basically by definition but. I'm sure it's much more more impressive. in person than it is looking at a photo.

you know we should go all right I would. totally love to go I i' I've been. wanting to go to Germany for a while. yeah you know I mean we're we're talking. about maybe trying to do some like real. European tour dates oh yeah uh we should. do a 10 person show in Germany yeah oh I. bet we could I bet we could get 500. people in a room in Germany you're crazy. all right well let's talk about some. other stuff um we talked about that. artificial cave um was pretty amazing he. also had a singer Hall which was.

supposedly recreated from uh part of the. vurg which was a castle where they had. American Idol essentially uh it was. called the singers cre uh singers. contest uh in. 1207 yeah which is right in the. Wheelhouse of when the this fantasy era. would have taken place the high Middle. Ages from about 1,00 CE to 1300 CE right. yeah totally um there's also a winter. garden which which essentially is a. enclosed balcony that looks out has an.

amazing view but the thing that's really. notable about that um is that the their. window panes with glass measuring 9 ft. tall about 3 m the largest tallest. window panes made in the history of. humanity up to that point yeah pretty. impressive now it's no big deal but yeah. at the time it was and then some of the. other um technology that he employed he. had hot and cold running water that was. not very common back then what else uh.

he had central heat uh he had forced air. uh he had a little electric Bell system. for his servants ring aing and he had. telephone lines even though there was. not you know there was no one he could. really call uh there are very few people. he could call but he did have telephone. lines apparently it would it would um. connect to hen schwang that his. childhood Castle a mile away oh really. okay well that makes sense yeah he also. had flesh toilets too the thing is is it.

took forever for this to be constructed. when they broke ground I think in. 1869 he um he estimated to be about 3. years and it took them longer than that. just to build the gate house which is. like the first building of this massive. Castle complex and that's where he lived. while they were building the rest the. palace itself um but he only lived in. the palace for about 6 months uh before. he died. so um I think actually as we'll see the.

whole thing went unfinished as a matter. of fact but as he was doing this he grew. deeper and deeper and deeper in debt and. you might be like Boo his he used the. king's money to build himself a Fantasy. Castle that's not correct no he did not. use public monies uh he just went into. debt and traded on his family name uh. securing loans you know against that. royal family name uh he also got a loan. loan from Otto von bismar of Prussia MH.

who you know helped him out when he. could MH uh including vouching for him. as we'll see later uh but he just you. know he was obsessed with these projects. He Kept building these projects he. started another one uh about a year. after new uh no fonstein um which like. you said wasn't even close to being done. and they were like all right this is. enough. um we need to get this guy out of here. and this was all like kind of the the. quiet talk um you know around the court. right uh and you know it seemed like by.

all appearances he was still doing the. the bureaucratic work of the king um. like I mentioned earlier he was he was. not so interested in the um the public. sort of uh Waring type of stuff and. being a big public face he liked to hide. away but he wasn't like just laying. around in a dream world like he would he. would keep up with the paperwork and. stuff like that that he had to do mhm. but that wasn't enough um they wanted. him out so in March 1886 prime minister. Johan Von Lutz uh hired Bernard Von.

Gooden a very prominent psychiatrist who. had already been treating his mentally. ill brother um ludvig's mentally ill. brother and instead of and this this guy. seemed like a good guy like he was. against restraints and violence and he. wanted to treat patients with uh dignity. and respect and allow them freedoms and. stuff like that yeah very Progressive. for the time super Progressive but he. did not actually examine the king. himself he talked to people around him.

sexual partners that he had and stuff. like that took into account the family. diagnoses uh here and there and came up. with his own diagnosis right he did and. to be fair uh ven wasn't the only. psychiatrist or psychologist who was um. tasked with preparing this report like. but he was the most prominent and in. fact he became ludvig's personal doctor. I guess personal psychiatrist.

essentially is what it came to so 3. months after uh he was tasked with this. they released this report and they. diagnosed ludvig with paranoia. parenthesis Madness yeah essentially. saying he he probably had something like. schizophrenia and then one of the other. things about that report is it touched. on um but apparently didn't mention. explicitly I hadn't read it so I'm not. quite sure how they put it but it was. definitely in in not direct terms the.

fact that he was gay a gay King right. right and so I'm sure that by itself. like basically a report from a. psychiatrist saying this would have been. enough but the impression I have is it. was really the public funds and being. indebted to um families from other. nations B bismar like that's that's a. big deal right and then if the creditors. came after him he's like I don't have. any money ultimately they're going to. turn on Bavaria and I get I get the Imp. that that was what really got them the.

most right and what they were trying to. protect against so 3 days after that. report comes out they showed up at his. doorstep and said you're under arrest. freeze sucker yeah they they brought uh. was it Pam. Greer yeah no they didn't say sugar oh. okay yeah I guess that would have been. sugar uh they had chloroform they had a. straight jacket apparently they didn't. have to use um the straight jacket I'm. not sure about the chloroform uh but. they placed him under arrest sent him to.

the castle of berg uh Gooden was to care. for him basically kind of full-time. there and uh here's where we get to the. question of like whether or not he was. genuinely mentally ill or just sort of. forced out by being an eccentric gay. young king right uh well he wasn't super. young by this point I guess but um in. 2013 there was a paper in Germany from. some mental health researchers who. basically said this it was an unreliable. report. uh that was politically motivated and. they were just trying to get him out of.

there uh he was still governing he was. still sort of doing the paperwork and. doing the things he needed to do uh he. had written in fact Von bismar even. vouches for this guy saying that they. had exchanged letters uh right up until. the very end where he seemed lucid and. was in touch with reality um seven years. after that in 2020 just a few years ago. there was another report from another um. set of German psychiatric researchers. that said actually it's probably pretty. well- founded uh the fact that he was.

gay may have played a big part for sure. but there's a lot of pretty good. evidence here that he had a mental. disorder yeah um it's it you can make a. pretty good case based on the. contemporaneous reports right like. apparently at least once he ordered a. dinner for 12 people to be set and then. when he arrived in the dining room it. was just him and yet he still greeted. all of the empty seats before sitting. down um he would also talk to a bust of. Marie Antoinette um quite in depth it.

wasn't like a passing like love you or. anything like that like he would have. conversations with her in. French uh he also and this is this is um. this is something he would speak at a. fast pace with different ideas mixing. together Hall hallucinations and. delusions yeah that's a that's a big one. right what else uh he to pay off his. debts at one point he proposed a bank. robbery MH pretty good idea sure uh it. says odd dancing and jumping movements.

um who knows file that under whatever. uhuh maybe just fun guy um he when they. threatened his um uh his to shut down. his his construction projects basically. uh at one point he threatened. suicide uh and he was he was nocturnal. he would he would be up all night he. would sleep all day none of these things. by themselves like you know says aha. schizophrenia. uh but taken all together um it.

definitely paints a picture with his. family history of someone who who may. have had something legitimate going on I. don't know I think the hallucinations. and delusions by themselves could could. account for it but they well he could. have also been taking drugs sure I guess. so Royal 19th Century Drugs who knows. what that is that's the good stuff but. that 2020 paper essentially they said he. probably um could have been diagnosed. with schizotypal personality disorder. which is characterized by odd eccentric. behavior and few if any close friends.

and that definitely describes them so. it's possible but it's certainly I mean. we're we're um diagnosing this guy in. the same way that Dr guten did which was. based on reports and stuff like that. that the people writing these papers. never examined them so it's not clear. and we'll probably never know yeah I. think the autopsy report was sort of a. big factor um there was uh finding on. the autopsy that showed he had scars on. his frontal loes for menitis when he was.

a baby MH um so that could have been. something sure I mean that that will. have some sort of effect and um like you. said he he they performed an autopsy. which strongly suggests that he died so. spoiler alert he did die he eventually. died I mean he was living in the 19th. century so yeah he was going to die by. now anyway but he died relatively young. at age 41 another leg of the stool that. makes him a tra figure um and he was.

remember they came and got him Dr guden. and some some um I guess hired Men by. the the um. Parliament came and took him away to. castleberg one of his father's castles. uh where he was essentially under house. arrest um and then the next day he. turned up dead he and Dr guden went on a. walk around the castle grounds their. second of the day uh this one was in the. evening and they never came back so. people went out to look for them and.

when they did they discovered them dead. floating face down in Lake Sternberg on. the castle grounds yeah the the story. was uh ludvig wanted to drown himself. made a break for the water uh Dr Gooden. went after him uh they tussled in the. water and Dr Gooden was drowned and then. the king drowned himself after um. there's a lot of hanky stuff uh the way. this went down um first and like there. really only to be one Hy thing in this.

case really is the fact that they found. them floating yeah uh because when you. drown you sink uh your lungs take on. water and and you know 10 seconds you. can be at the bottom of that Lake uh. maybe a few days or a week later you. might eventually float back up once like. uh gases are released and stuff like. that but uh drowning victims don't float. and there was also no water in his lungs. at the autopsy or no foam. uh at his mouth or nose or anything like.

that like he didn't drown it just seems. pretty clear certainly doesn't seem that. way so um other people say well no he. didn't drown he died from being. assassinated he was shot as was Dr guden. Who just happened to be in the wrong. place at the wrong time and whoever. assassinated ludvig didn't want to leave. any Witnesses and there's um a whole. Fringe belief that this was a that that. ludvig was assassinated and this was. covered up. um and there's supposedly like the Diary.

of a fisherman who was there at the. scene who that he left this confession. or description of what really happened. after he died uh supposedly somebody in. the same royal family as ludvig um or. the Royal House had his coat that he. wore that night and it had two bullet. holes in it and supposedly she showed it. to some other people um all of this. stuff the big problem is it's all second. and third hand accounts and all of the. evidence that's referenced the physical. evidence it's gone vanished burned up in.

a house fire uh no one knows where it. went whatever um so there's it's just. going to always essentially remain a. fringe Theory unless we find like a. writing from autovon bismar talking. about how he had um ludvig assassinated. uh we're just probably never going to. know what happened to him um and there's. actually a group called The Google monor. did I say that. right it's really more like. Mena uh and they're essentially like a a.

Bavarian independent Society who say Not. only was ludvig. assassinated that makes everything that. came after that. illegitimate yeah they said it you hate. umls why do you hate. umls their reasoning so that's the thing. one of the there there weren't very many. people who had good reason to have. ludvig assassinated he was deposed his. uncle was put in into Power um and ludic. had been taken care of so why kill him.

and the Google. monor says um that Von bismar had found. out that ludvig was negotiating with. France to help liberate Bavaria from. this new German Empire so that he could. you know take his rightful place on the. throne again and bismar was like we. can't have that and assassinated him so. who knows we'll never know he died at 41. that's one thing we do know mhm uh and. he very much like you been saying was a. tragic figure uh his his bestie there.

Empress Elizabeth uh put some Jasmine in. his hands uh in his casket which is a. very sweet thing to do MH uh French poet. uh verain called him the only true king. of this. century and the irony of all this is. that. nanstein which was had had basic not. bankrupted him but put him in dire. Financial Straits and may have led to. his aler uh kind of right after he died. uh they opened it to tourists and it has. made a ton of money since then and.

continues to yeah they estimate 130. million people have visited it since. they opened it a few weeks after his. death isn't that nuts it's pretty great. also if you go to um castleberg in Lake. Sternberg there's a cross coming out of. the water to Mark the spot where his. body was found and he's even more. beloved in death than he was in life um. every August 24th and 25th fusen the. town nearest the castle celebrates his. birthday so he's kind of a big deal.

around there you know yeah totally great. great story I love ludvig II I don't. know if I got the point across or not. but he was a tragic. figure tragic figure uh you got anything. else I'm going to guess no I got nothing. else okay that means everybody it's time. for listener. [Music]. mail uh all right I'm going to say this. is from Parker and it's about share um. kind of going to bat for share with uh. with some of her song themes and album.

titles uh hey guys I hope people aren't. too hard on share these days uh for the. title Gypsies Tramps and thieves and for. the song Half Breed I was a young child. uh living in apple pie life when those. songs were released and they were my. first introduction to how unfair life. can be I felt a lot of empathy for the. character singing the songs and swore to. myself uh never to make people feel like. that share is awesome so thanks for that. great episode uh and you know that's uh.

something I don't even think we. mentioned that uh there are certain. singers who at times have have sung sort. of as character uh in character uh my. own beloved Billy Joel uh wrote songs. about you know seemingly from the. perspective of a Vietnam vet or from a. Longboat uh you know long shoreman and a. fisherman sure and Bruce Springsteen and. you know there's long been Rich history. of sort of writing in character and as a. character and singing as a character so.

uh that is how Parker took it and it. seems like it imparted a good lesson. yeah for sure that's a great great Point. Parker thanks for writing in to point. that out uh if you want to be like. Parker and write in to point something. out that's very insightful we love that. kind of thing you can send it off to. stuff podcast iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple.

podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].