Leave Brutalism Alone! | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh there's Chuck Ben's here sitting in. for Jerry which we're all very happy. about frankly that's our preference and. this is stuff you I'm kidding and this. is stuff you should. know yeah it's been a while since you. bagged on Jerry for no reason I know. things have felt weird no I just reset.

them again uh I'm excited about this one. this is another uh if you're listening. at home we would really encourage you to. try and follow along by looking up some. photographs yes of some of the things we. mentioned because obviously we're. talking about a uh a design style of. architecture yeah and those are always. better when you can see some of this. stuff and do so safely yeah because it's. really difficult to describe a building. in any really good terms you know or any. any any way that that you're just like.

oh I don't even need to see the the. picture of it I totally got what you're. saying but we still try we definitely. still try and probably of all the. architecture there is brutalist might be. the easiest to describe without looking. at it maybe true but then when you look. at brutalist things there's so much. variety within that that category yeah. you yeah and if you hadn't guessed by. now we're talking about brutalism if you. didn't pick up from that exchange we. just had or the title of this episode um.

and brutalist architecture even if you. don't know what it is you have almost. certainly witnessed it maybe even been. inside a brutalist building because. they're very often public buildings as. we'll see and brutalism is probably the. most. reviled. misunderstood hated. architecture um of all time it's just so. easy to hate it and so many people hate. it for so many different sometimes. really weird reasons um but there also.

seems to be a a Renaissance and. appreciating brutalism which is arriving. just in time because brutalist buildings. are in really grave danger being torn. down and erased from architectural. history all over the world yeah. absolutely um I I learned a cool thing. today which I never knew before and I. thought about this when I was in Mexico. City which has a lot of great brutalist. architecture yeah uh including I mean.

that Airport's got to be brutalist. right yeah as a matter of fact it's got. to be I think it is I didn't see that it. didn't come up in my research but yes. Mexico City has a ton of good. brutalism uh but when I was there I I. noticed some things and I was like and I. saw a couple like uh sort of that e. echoed sort of pyramid style brutalism. and I was like wait a minute I was like. these look like ancient May Mayan. temples and if you look up like an. ancient Mayan temple or goes visit one.

like it's a totally brutalist thing uh. but I learned that uh apparently. originally these temples were very. ornate um I saw I can't remember where I. got this but I said they were as ornate. as any neoclassical uh edifice in Europe. but they've been stripped down over the. years from war and looting and just time. and they became brutalist in the end huh. weird that's fantastic and totally. surprising yeah so they weren't. originally built that way but when when.

you look at a Mayan Temple compared to. like some of these other you know like. Office Buildings I'm like you say this. was came around in like England in the. 1950s and I say it came around long. before that so you you uh hit upon. something though that like these these. Mayan temples are brutalist now but they. weren't before because they've been. stripped of their decoration or whatever. um that is brutalism it's a type of. architecture that from its outset from. the the creation of the building from. design onward um it's meant to not have.

ornamentation it's the it's the skeleton. of the building is the building that's. what brutalism is or at least in part. yeah and if you've ever and like we said. we'll get into some of the variety. within the the style but if you've ever. seen a like a huge. concrete uh unfinished sort of concrete. looking government building with the. same little tiny windows and it just. looks like this blocky monolith yeah.

that is brutalism staring you in the. face yeah if you look at a building and. suddenly Stalin just comes into your. head you're looking at a brutalist. building almost certainly yeah or if you. wonder what evil villains layer that is. it's probably a brutalist building right. exactly um I also had a brutalist. Epiphany in Mexico City recently um when. we were down there we went to one of the. museums and they were having a brutalism. exhibit and it completely reversed my my.

feelings about brutalism I walked into. that exhibit hating brutalism and I. walked out really appreciating it and it. turns out I didn't actually hate. brutalism all this time I I hate ugly. buildings ugly thoughtless dumb boring. buildings and that is not BR brutalism. is not synonymous with that it's gotten. a bad name over the years and part of it. is even the name itself brutalism a lot. of people think that the whole um term. was coin.

to describe like how the building makes. you feel when you look at it it's brutal. it's sharp it's it's it's merciless has. zero compassion it's dehumanizing that's. not what the term brutalism means at all. it actually refers to a type of concrete. that um the French architect and. designer La corbusier introduced um. called beton Brute yeah beton brute I. think the exact English translation is. gross cement exactly but they they call.

it raw concrete yeah exactly which is to. say just a a raw unfinished poured. concrete um uh there there are a lot of. houses in our surrounding neighborhoods. in Atlanta now that are uh being built. sort of in this style these huge big. concrete blocky houses that are I I. think it's sort of a mish mash it. definitely Echoes brutalism but most of. them still have a polished sort of. concrete look to them and that is not. true true brutalism no and it's there's.

a lot of overlap um between modernism. and brutalism they both were um they. both were going on at the same time and. some people say that brutalism emerged. out of modernism there's a big old. that's a hornest that we're not going to. get into um but just using exposed. unfinished concrete um is not in and of. itself a brutalist building there's. other elements as well that come into it.

yeah but that I think an interesting. thing is brutalism isn't um I mean you. know and you see it but it it's it's. something that uh I saw this I think it. was a New York Times article that said. it has always sort of lacked a really. clear well articulated set of principles. I I saw that I didn't agree with that I. thought it was very. articulated oh well I think the. um I think what it means more is it. there's there's so much variety within. those principles you can't say it's just. this this because depending on what.

region you are in the world the. brutalist architecture is going to look. different whether it's you know Soviet. Russia or postwar London or uh in Brazil. in Latin America brutalism grew out of. the modernist tradition so stuff there. looks quite a bit different than it does. in other parts of the world it does I. think that they all share in common a. core set of principles that is brutalism. that that's what I disagree with I know. that there's differences in in all that. I just I just I didn't agree with that.

statement I thought the New York Times. got it wrong wrong. wrong I'm with them I'm down the paper. record well let's talk about where this. came from huh yeah well I mean you know. it came out of the. post-war um architectural rebuilding of. so many cities around the world that. were completely destroyed into Rubble uh. and in particular this um one uh couple. Peter and Allison Smithson uh in England. saw bombed out London and instead of.

seeing you know a big bombed out mess. where like oh we have to rebuild it you. know more ornate and grander than before. they saw an opportunity and were. inspired and said why don't we start. using this rubble and and build some. sort of Unfinished looking places yeah. so it's almost like they they visually. speaking they used the rubble as the. material to build the new buildings and. they didn't actually use that but. visually speaking they did did that and. it was like you said an acceptance of.

the current reality rather than a return. to a previous reality which is radical. in and of itself um but that that was. the essentially the Smithson are. credited with um establishing brutalism. as a as a architectural movement um very. frequently there um a Critic named rer. banam as credited with coining the term. brutalism that's wrong he popularized it. in a review of the smithson's work the. Smithson used it a couple of years.

before uh banam did and a couple years. before that a Swedish architect named. Hans asplin used it to describe a home. that he designed in oopsa uh called via. goth in 1949 so at least as far back as. 1949 the term brutalism was being used. but you kind of dug up and and you had. said at the outset um evidence that. brutalism was around before that term. was ever used right yeah I mean I I I. think clearly they were inspired.

inspired by stuff that came before them. uh maybe by mind temples and things like. that but no one was calling it brutalist. obviously until then and and I don't. think it was like a a Bonafide a bonafed. architectural movement until the postwar. you know sort of uh rebuilding right and. postwar because of all the rebuilding. that was going on brutalism was widely. adopted across Europe not just in the. west but also in the Eastern block. because because World War II just.

ravaged that continent um and so a lot. of countries had a lot of cities that. needed to be rebuilt largely um and not. just in Europe in Japan particularly in. okanawa um supposedly 10 to 20% of the. buildings that were around before World. War II were still around after as much. as 90% of the buildings were destroyed. so they had a lot of rebuilding to do. and it just so happened at the time. brutalism was this new kind of upand.

cominging um frankly beloved style of. architecture so it happened to be in the. right place at the right time to become. adopted around the world because all. this rebuilding was going on but the. timing isn't the full explanation of the. whole thing is it is it no no it's not. because it was also a time where in the. sort of the 50s through the 70s where. the European nations that had colonized. the world uh that stuff started sort of.

going back the other way and these. countries were even either giving their. their country back or they were. flourishing so in Latin America all of a. sudden there was sort of a new. Prosperity going on uh in Africa uh. there was you know some of them were. gaining independence and so it all timed. out with brutalism so that's why you'll. see like brutalism in Africa and. brutalism in Latin America and brutalism. in Japan it's really interesting the. thing is though is we said that. modernism was full swing at the same.

time um so you could say well why didn't. they just choose modernism instead and. you know a lot of them did a lot of. modernist buildings were built in these. same cities around the same time but the. reason brutalism truly became so. ubiquitous around the world is because. it was cheap it was really cheap to make. a brutalist building because they were. essentially poured or slab concrete um. there was no adornment to them there. they were um as we'll see brutalism. takes a single unit very often like a.

like a the smallest unit like a say an. apartment and then red do it over and. over and over again so there's a. standardization of the process of the. materials um so it just was it was. around at the time and it was a very. cheap alternative to other much more. ornate um types of buildings like. modernist buildings at the time so that. was one reason why it was so widely. adopted yeah and with that repeating. thing I mean can even just be like well.

like that airport in Mexico City with. the circles mhm uh or uh or what was the. one um the French guy like his very the. uh the habitat the UN. deit yeah I mean if you look at that. that's another great example of these. you know I guess they're Windows what. are they yeah I think they're um. balconies or like patios okay it's hard. to tell from like a distance but it's. just this repeated thing thing and. that's there's obviously an a building.

efficiency when you're not adorning. things and we're kind of repeating the. same um design feature over and over and. over uh also this is a Time post-war. where people really started moving to. the cities a lot more um especially in. the Eastern block uh it's cheap it was a. cheap way to house tons of people uh as. far as the US goes that's when the. federal government really beefed up and. said all right we're going to be uh. we're going to take some steroids here. and see what happens mhm and so all of a. sudden you had a much larger bureaucracy.

and these uh they needed you know there. were more people more employees and so. they needed these big federal government. buildings so you'll see a lot of uh some. of the best brutalist architecture in. American cities could be like the the. city library like here in Atlanta or or. a uh like the the IRS building or. something like these big government. buildings also one of the reasons. brutalism was such a great idea for. government buildings is because they're. so stable. and they're so um just immovable and so.

they the designers were like well this. is going to remind people that the. government is stable and you don't have. to worry because the government's in. control just look at the buildings that. they they operate out of yeah DC has a. lot of brutalist stuff right yes it's a. brutalist town if you uh want to. acquaint yourself with brutalist. architecture just walk around DC and. look at the federal buildings they are. brutalist through and. through should we take a break. buddy I say we take a break yeah all.

right because we need to go to. Washington DC and. [Music]. [Music]. apologize.

okay Chuck I didn't understand why do we. have to apologize to. DC I don't know it sounded like you were. saying I know you appreciate brutalism. now but it sounded like you didn't have. much love for the DC style of brutalism. uh no it's not it's not that I've always. appreciated DC because it's just so. weird architecturally isn't it that. nothing can be taller than the. Washington Monument that's why there's. no skyscrapers in DC I think I've heard. that the monument or the capital build. one of the two um so yeah it's a very.

low long City but that that also is um. ready made for brutalist design too. because they're often like. low wide hulking forms as well yeah. you're never going to see a brutalist. tower that's not true there are some. brutalist Towers but they're very rare. very very rare well yeah I mean I've. seen I've seen some skinnyish apartment. buildings and things but I guess I don't. know I'm thinking in terms of like.

skyscrapers well do they have those the. skyscrapers that we think of when we. think of the Cities today those kind of. came along and replaced brutalism and. starting around the 80s yeah so no you. wouldn't have seen that as brutalist. because it just wasn't brutalist so it's. not all concrete all the time uh it's. obviously a very big part that. unfinished concrete of brutalism but uh. you might see a little brick in there. every now and then um probably not going. to be like some super colorful thing uh. you'll probably see some steel uh.

obviously some glass I have seen you. know and especially in Brazil and Latin. America out of the modernist movement um. incorporating wood and I I'm a big fan. of um of like combining like cement and. wood and natural things like that. natural elements with unnatural elements. well that's the new that's the new thing. um that's brand spanking new they call. it organic brutalism which is combining. like a brutalist space with like organic. touches to it yeah yeah you'd love that.

so um even though it's I don't even know. if you can say that it's not all. concrete all the time I think one of the. basis of brutalism is that it's got to. be concrete right or are you saying like. other people have experimented with. other stuff and still considered. brutalist no no no I I just mean like. that every square inch of the place. isn't concrete but that it features very. very prominently um one of the things. yeah one of the things about this these. reinfor concrete buildings is because.

they were using just unfinished concrete. or you know unadorned concrete they. figured out interesting ways to kind of. play with the concrete so that every. building didn't look exactly alike so. you'll often see like um vertical. ripples going down Long Tall columns. that's that's a type of concrete um. there'll be like aggregate like maybe. Pebbles that are on the surface of the. concrete um there's all sorts of stuff. they did but if at the end of the day. it's all reinforced concrete and there's.

not like drywall over it there's not um. like a nice paint job over it there's no. decorations or any kind of um like. woodwork or anything like that it's it's. just the right the building itself the. point of brutalism is the building. itself is allowed to stand on its own. and um I saw somewhere that somebody. said that if modernism is meant to be. honest then brutalism is brutally honest. like what you see is what you get with. the building yeah I like that I do.

too um they like you said there's a uh. there's a sense of permanence to a. brutalist building and I think that's. another reason why government buildings. like them because like you mentioned. they just sort of convey this uh thing. of like I I know you hate paying her. taxes but look at this IRS building it's. not going anywhere right it sends a. message it says. TS um there's some other like basic. parts of the brutal concept Chuck like.

um the the buildings tend to be angular. geometric sculptural blocky topheavy the. windows are very frequently deep set um. they're called fortress-like I don't. know if you mentioned that one before. but it it pops up almost everywhere when. you're talking about what brutalism is. Fortress likee seems to be like a a very. um like a just a common description um. and then we talked about them being. self-re repeating right yeah yeah and. that was you know a big reason why.

because the efficiencies and the cost. right so sometimes some brutalist. buildings will take like the single unit. like say it's an apartment building and. they will take the they'll design the. one apartment building and they just. repeat it over and over and over again. and then the next row over and over and. over again and by combining these. modular units together they it forms the. building just through repetition and so. some people call it a fractal as far as. architectural movement go which makes a. lot of sense yeah and you know I I.

appreciate it a lot and I always have. but I I get why people don't like a lot. of these buildings and I think that. maybe like you previous to Mexico City. um only had in in the in the brain like. sort of one thing which is God that ugly. building downtown that I have to go to. get my driver's license or something. exactly and to expose yourself to more. and you know we're going to talk about. some payments bill buildings but you. know brutalism had a a sort of a preh.

hatred going on before it even became a. thing right uh the people that were I. believe it was uh L. corbusier's uh how do you pronounce this. building again the. unan that's right I think if my high. school French can hold up he designed. this thing for workingclass families to. house a lot of people which was the. whole idea but no no one wanted to live. there none of those people wanted to. live there MH so the the intelligencia.

of Marseilles was like you know they. appreciated that architecture and. they're who moved in right they said. so uh I I also think it's interesting. that um they have been used in a lot of. uh as uh the one here that I sent you in. Georgia that is so cool looking and of. all places no in Georgia yeah was used. as I believe in Ant-Man and the WASP as. the evil villains layer from the outside. and Clockwork Orange and like just this. association with evil villains or the um.

bad guys or the the Communist Soviet. block it just sort of always had this. reputation of like you should probably. hate this architecture also dystopian. too like if you ever watch a a movie or. look at artwork set in a dystopia if you. look at the buildings they are almost. always brutalist in some way shape or. form often very frankly brutalist right. and it kind of makes sense because a lot. of times dystopian settings are well.

they're set in the future or maybe. they're. post-apocalyptic yeah yeah and it makes. sense that if any kind of building is. going to survive a brutalist building. would survive far into the future or um. would survive an apocalypse so it makes. sense um intuitively but also I think. brutalism gets used in that because it's. so associated with things like. dehumanization depersonalization that. the scales that they're built on are. inhuman scales and that's ironic because.

again most of the brutalist buildings. that were ever built Were Meant To Be. public buildings where you bring a lot. of people together to do things like. enjoy a ballet or a a show or. performance or to live together as a. community in like a tower or something. like that and yet they're the irony of. it is that they're viewed as inhuman. dehumanizing rather than humanizing. which is I think what they were after. but it just over time it just became.

associated with the opposite of that. yeah for sure um and you know if you. have an evil villain in your movie. you're not going to put him in a in a. quaint. Cottage well maybe if they're on. vacation and it's a like a rental uh one. of my favorite examples of brutalism as. a as a bad guys's place is in uh Karate. Kid 3 which I I watched it when it came. out and I clearly hadn't watched it. since cuz i' had forgotten all about. about it and we watched it on vacation.

last year and it is one of the most. wonderfully awful movies I've ever seen. one of those bad movies that's a lot of. fun to watch is that the one with. Hillary Swank no no that is uh I think. the next Karate Kid Karate Kid 3 was the. third of the uh you know Daniel and Mr. Miyagi tale oh wow okay where he battled. the bad guy Terry silver uhuh who was I. think he was a Vietnam buddy. of uh what's his name I can't remember.

from the first the Sensei from the first. one sure yeah yeah so Terry Silver's. place is the ultimate brutalist bad guy. Lair and it is the inis house in Los. Angeles that was designed by Frank Lloyd. Wright is that the um Hell House or Hill. house um I don't know I mean it's called. the inis house got to look that up. because I've been at some Frank Lord W. houses in Los Angeles and they're pretty. awesome yeah I mean he's he definitely. was not known as a brutal. um uh architect but there are a a.

handful of his designs and if you look. at in his house it is like like super. brutalist and then uh when I was in. Tulsa Oklahoma I saw the um the West. Hope House in Tulsa. MH Frank lyd Wright also I think if not. purely brutalist fairly. brutalist and then like you look at the. gugenheim the gugenheim is sort of. brutalist as well right I don't know if. you could call it if you're a brutalist.

purist a. ruralist right gez if you would count. the Guggenheim because it's the concrete. is much more smooth but it's not not. brutalist you know no um and I was. mistaken it's not Hill House it's the. House on Haunted Hill is what that that. NIS house stood in for but it is super. brutalist and it's funny because um you. had mentioned that the Mayan. architecture seems brutalist now but it. wasn't originally it very much echoes. some sort of Mesoamerican architecture.

almost like a a a mishmash of it yeah. for sure but it's you know this is sort. of what I was getting at like all of. these reasons that people hate brutalism. is why we are losing so many great. brutalist buildings in the world it's. it's a it's not a hard cell to tear. these things down a lot of times in a. city no and I have to say one other. thing um the the the hatred of brutalism. also is um sometimes Associated. depending on your political beliefs um.

It's associated with the welfare state. because so many were were built as. public housing um and so if you are say. you know right leaning or probably very. far to the right you hate brutalism for. that very reason and it also is no. coincidence that the era of brutalism. ended abruptly at 1980 uh which is the. time when Reagan and Thatcher came to. power and the welfare state was like. nope no more welfare St state or we're. going to cut it so thoroughly that we're.

certainly not going to invest in any. brutalist architecture any longer and it. became Associated not just with. totalitarian governments of the Eastern. block here in the United States it also. became Associated on the right with. welfare and the right doesn't really. like welfare very much so they don't. like brutalist architecture isn't that. interesting yeah super like they were. looked at as blights a lot of times well. they became that way too and that's a. that's another reason why that they're. they're under such attack they show. their age pretty pretty poorly right.

yeah over the years um because they're. not adorned because they have that rough. concrete finish water damage can happen. a lot decay can be really more evident. uh I think that um Paul Rudolph he's a. and when you say you know famous. brutalist architect it's um you got to. be in the no to kind of know these names. right uh it's not like a Frank Lloyd. Wright but Paul Rudolph's Orange County. Government Center in Goa New York was. torn down if you look this thing up it.

is amazing looking yeah I became a fan. of Paul Rudolph's just researching this. I'd never heard of him before but he was. good that building is unbelievable but. they tore it down and it wasn't just cuz. like oh look at this big blocky thing. but apparently it leaked from day one. there was constant mold there were. always uh water issues there were having. to close courtrooms and move them around. and they they just you know did a cost. study and it was like. retrofitting and making this thing a.

workable uh Government Center isn't. isn't even feasible so they tore it down. so I had a hard time getting to the. bottom of this because I saw plenty of. places that it was torn down I also saw. that it was going to be torn down but. they decided to do a retrofit or a rehab. of it instead and that the the the the. the update the refresh of it was so. faithless to the original that it's no. longer a brutalist building I saw it. described as disfigured. interesting yeah but either way Paul.

Rudolph seems to be I I think Arch mag. called him the unluckiest architect ever. Arc mag is it Arc or Arch is it. architecture well why don't you just. call it Arc mag then why you have to add. the H and make me look stupid in front. of everybody I'm with you I I think it's. kind of an awkward name well anyway Arc. Arch magag um called them the unluckiest. architech.

around because so many of Paul Rudolph's. buildings are just being torn down left. and right and I don't even know that. it's a a distinct dislike of Paul. Rudolph's work I think it's just people. are tearing brutalist buildings down and. his happen to be being torn down at a a. faster rate than other Architects. brutalist buildings and I know we're. going to get email from someone who. works at that magazine that's like Chuck. doesn't know what he's talking about we. call it Ark magag right exactly Josh was. right Arch mag other buildings uh.

architect Named buron Goldberg designed. the prince Women's Hospital in Chicago. that was torn down it was gorgeous yeah. how are you going to look at that and be. like that's an ugly building it was a a. a a a elevated Clover made of concrete. it was it was gorgeous for sure and at. the very least even if you don't think. these buildings are gorgeous I get that. but they. they're they're admirable for sure like.

they're they're amazing achievements for. sure I just don't think that they're. ugly across the board I think there's. plenty of amazing brutalist buildings. out there oh totally um it also doesn't. help that uh and I think you found stuff. from Jessica Stewart in my modern met. and beona besos great name in ARCA. magazine that's a lot easier uh that. they both talked about the fact that. these are basically um they can be kind. of a symbol of human abandonment is what. they said in Arkham magazine and if it.

starts to Decay it's got these big open. bare concrete walls so like obviously uh. vandalism is is just going to be it's a. it's a perfect canvas for something like. that MH and uh I think Jessica Stewart's. the one that said they you know they. basically symbolized Urban Decay at one. point and econom economic hardship right. yeah that failure of the welfare state. um and because they show their neglect. so readily because because they're. unadorned um because they're exposed.

concrete they stood as symbols of like. yeah look how look how what a bad idea. welfare is like it just like this. building is like a symbol of that and by. the way I've I've been pronouncing it AA. magazine is that not. right all right I think we should take a. break we're g to call these magazines up. and get get the record set straight and. we'll be right back after. this.

[Music]. so Chuck I'm glad you said um Paul. Rudolph's Orange County Government. Center was in Goan New York because I. definitely would have said goshan no. joke and um just want to say one more.

thing about that it had it was made of. three buildings it had 87 roofs just. wrap your head around that for a second. wonder wonder why it leaked right. exactly but that's just just wonderful. um look up some of Paul Rudolph's work. and you're going to be like this is. super 70s awesomeness like that guy was. talented yeah totally I think a lot of. Frank Lord wri stuff leak though as well. yeah he was very famous for like some. guy he designed a house for said the. roof is leaking on my desk and Frank.

Floyd wri said move the desk and if you. ask me these guys get way too much of a. pass like because part of Architecture. is to make a building that doesn't leak. too in addition to making it awesome. it's got a function as a as a place to. live in or work in exactly well when we. were in Mexico City we went with our two. friends Mitch and Patrick who are. Architects and designers and I was. explaining that to them too and they're. like yeah it's absolutely true I was. expecting push back or whatever they're. like no no like they people people do.

give famous Architects way too much of a. a pass especially former legendary ones. hopefully I didn't just get Mitch and. Patrick in trouble I don't think so okay. they're out of the they're out of the. club now right so if you're um as far as. brutalism coming back uh it is coming. back in certain ways they're uh they're. definitely um even if you don't have. like a let's say you have like a modern. house or even not a modern house you can. decorate your interior in a little more.

brutalist style uh and you know. sometimes just a touch or two of that. kind of thing can really give you what. you're looking for I'm not a big fan of. that our house Stu Works office used to. be I guess new brutalist interior design. it kind of check the boxes I was never. comfortable there no I mean isn't every. office that's got concrete walls and. exposed air ducts and. right Edison bulbs are they're they're.

all sort of new brutalist right kind of. yeah and also it seems like um little. geometric pattern copper knickknacks on. shelves that float that don't really. serve that much of a purpose they're. just decorative I don't like that either. we had that great mural though really. warmed that that that place up remember. it did I wonder what happened to that. because we're not in that building. anymore but surely they preserve the. mural in that question mark table where. the heck is that thing I don't know no. in space I think.

yeah uh here though in the 2020s. brutalism as as an actual architectural. style is making a bit of a comeback yeah. um like I said I've seen quite a few. houses in the neighboring neighborhoods. that are uh some are just sort of like. you know hi we're a blocky house so uh. that that's more modern but there are a. couple that are are true brutalist like. concrete uh layers it looks like. there was um a triumphant brutalist.

refurbishment here in Atlanta back in. 2018 uh the central Atlanta library in. downtown was designed by Marcel Brewer. amazing building but apparently um that. was the last the last work that Brewer. completed before he died and I guess. some of the design and some of the. actual construction didn't quite Jive. and some of his original intentions were. covered up like there was an elevator. that had to be centrally placed that. just screwed things up quite a bit and. then they came along and they added more.

lights they refurbished the place they. got rid of that Central elevator they. opened it up um there was a there's like. a zigzagging staircase that's amazing. that's now much more prominent and in. doing so they actually made the building. closer to Marcel Brewer's original. intentions with his design than it was. when it was built when Marcel Brewer was. still alive so like that's an example of. like the the IDE. of what's being done with brutalist.

buildings the opposite end is that. they're being torn down because people. vote them as like the ugliest building. of all time right should we should we. rattle off some of these famous ones yes. well architecture architect wise uh is. it Lewis or Louie I never know I think. Lewis but Lewis Khan k a hn yeah is is. usually the first name you'll hear if. people are kind of throwing the. brutalist archit. uh name. around yeah and I mean like you can make.

a pretty good case that brutalism I. don't know if it's because the buildings. were meant to take Center Stage or. whatever but the there aren't it's just. not household names compared to other. other movement you know what I mean leis. Khan is definitely Far and Away the most. famous but I saw that he's technically. not even a brutalist he just used. brutalist elements there are some like. we talked about Paul Rudolph uh Venza. slay RoR um Marcel Brewer there's a lot.

of other really great I think Arno. Goldfinger um people you just have never. heard of these are just random names it. sounds like that a writer made up um no. they're actually legit Architects um. they just aren't like this movement. didn't have like star power like some of. the other movements did yeah and like we. said like Frank Lloyd Wright had has. done a thing or two but he's not known. for that uh I has dabbled in it uh in. New York City if you see Kips Bay Plaza.

by I imp very much brutalist but that's. not how you know his name was made no no. but there are ones there like nope I'm. brutalist through and through um the. Smithson obviously were brutalists. because they founded the movement um and. one of the things they completed was. Robin Hood Gardens which was a housing. estate from. 1972 and it. was it's okay Brut as brutal as. brutalism gets it is um and part of it. was demolished just part of it right um.

and it was actually acquired three. stories of the building were acquired by. the Victorian Albert Museum to preserve. it because it's just such a fine example. of brutalist architecture even though to. me it's kind of ugly but London because. this was the epicenter of the brutalist. movement the creation of it it has a lot. of good examples of really good. brutalist. buildings what Prince Charles has to say. about them not not withstanding yeah. King Charles but he was Prince when he.

said that the uh Royal National Theater. of London was a quote clever way of. building a nuclear power station in the. middle of London without anyone. objecting right I think it's cool. looking I like it yeah I was going to. say it's hilarious but he's a Madman for. saying that I think he just came up with. a clever quip and was going to use it at. all costs because anyone who looks at. the Royal National Theater it isn't like. that's an amazing building is is is. wrong I'm sorry. wrong yeah it was also at the time.

princess Charles's uh you know best stab. at at telling a joke well he was. apparently well known for being a mean. critic in the media about architecture. in particular I didn't realize that but. that was like one of his greatest hits. from what I can tell but this the thing. about the Royal National Theater it had. really great horizontal and vertical. lines that were. harmonious which can be unusual for a. brutalist building but even more un ual. it fit the site that it sits on it's not.

imposed like every other brutalist. building of all time if there's ever. been a brutalist building that fit the. site that Royal National Theater is it. yeah for sure uh for my money if you. want to have your socks knocked off by a. a a blocky architectural gym then you. should go to Montreal and look at uh. saf's habitat 67 mhm uh it was built for. the 1967 World's Fair there in Montreal. and it is super cool looking it looks.

like a uh something a child might build. out of building blocks uh I've got one. um the Peace Center in. Hiroshima uh I really feel like every. American should go there it's amazing. the the Japanese in the wake of. Hiroshima and Nagasaki being bombed by. nuclear bombs their response was to. build this Peace Center um to to. preserve what happened for generations. to come so that it never happened again. they they turned pnik rather than um um.

uh retributive or vengeant it it's a. pretty amazing response if you think. about it and so it's a pretty amazing. Center and Kenzo Tang um who was a. student of like corbusier um started it. in 1950 and it's it's just a a long. rectangular structure that seems to be. kind of floating on the horizon it's. just a really amazing Place really. amazing Museum it just has a it's just. it it gets you in ways that like I'd.

never been gotten before just five years. after the bomb was dropped too so that. like how heavy was that still in the air. you know yeah and I mean in in Hiroshima. like it's I mean it's a part of the town. oh sure they preserved a a bank that was. just. completely wasted but the frame was. still there it's preserved they build a. fence around it and the blocks are still. where they landed after the um the bomb. was dropped like it they didn't touch it. after that they just cordoned it off and.

now it's part of this this this the. museum parts of the city entire parts of. the city have become part of this living. outdoor Museum it's it's just. amazing man Japan it's got to happen for. me one day yes it does seriously go to. Hiroshima it's it's really something. yeah it's also a really cool town too in. addition to the the whole museum segment. of it right um the uh if you go to. Tunisia and tun the hotel duac and if. you look at the uh if you look at that.

building and you say man if you chopped. off the back of that thing that would be. a sand crawler that the Jawas wrote. around in in Star Wars right then you. would probably not be surprised to know. that uh and supposedly inspired George. Lucas I I I say it had to have been. because right when you look at that. building it looks just like that thing. that inverted pyramid uh 416 rooms over. 10 floors it's really something and. inverted pyramids are sort of a a. brutalist thing as well but it's a it's.

a great example yeah and I mean it was. opened in 73 and he was there shooting. in the like years later so it was. definitely there in Tunis while he was. there so I I buy that totally um one of. the most famous brutalist buildings in. the United States if not the world is. the Geo library at UC San Diego it was. originally called the Central Library. but Ted geil Dr Seuss's Widow Audrey. donated $20 million and the university. said let's just rename it in honor of. you and Ted well she said $10 million.

and they kept the name and she was like. 15 right and then she said what do I got. to do to get our name on the front of. that thing right this this building is. amazing I mean and this is again is an. example of how like just sort of uh the. variety that you can find in a brutalist. building when you look at this compared. to the Robin Hood Gardens building in. London right yeah this one really. prominently makes use of glass which can.

be rare for a brutalist building super. And yet when you look at it you're like. that is a brutalist building it's just. an amazing beautiful Brut brutalist. building yeah I love it can't wait to go. go back to Mexico City and see some of. that stuff for sure um also I I would. strongly advise anyone not to make a. drinking game out of how often we say. brutalist in this episode because we. said it a lot they already have drinking. games that's all that stuff un Reddit I. know but don't do this one because you.

would. die um someone said I counted how many. times you got said like in the like. episode and I was like well yeah it was. kind of the name of the episode how many. times did we say llama in the Llama. episode right well plus we had our. additional likes because we talk like uh. regular people oh one other thing too. Chuck um if you want to see cool um. post-apocalyptic brutalist architecture. used really ad depthly an illustration. go check out Eternal dystopia YouTube.

videos did I send you that one called. Research Center it's like Drone music. but it's it the video is like just this. it's like this like a dystopian. brutalist building kind of set in the. haze and sometimes it's raining I'll. send it to you again it's really amazing. but the Drone music alone is pretty cool. so check that out did the Drone lately I. am because it's not distracting it helps. you helps me Focus you know like it uh. well Chuck said he likes it which means.

everybody that it's time for listener. mail yeah oh boy it's another correction. but Josh this one is on me okay now. you're. talking I think the first one may have. been on us but in the nuclear boy Scott. episode we said uh USS Enterprise was a. nuclear submarine y it's in fact an. aircraft carrier yeah uh but the big one. was when we had our our sort of brief. debate about military discharge and I. was just wrong wrong wrong because I. thought if you just served all your time.

then they just called it uh leaving the. military yeah you just stopped showing. up one day you just stopped showing up. or you call it retirement or whatever I. didn't think it was I thought I thought. any time you left before your time was. up was the only time it was called the. discharge sure not so we heard from a. lot of our Uh current service members. and Veterans uh but this one's from. Scott Oliver he said. um guys what Chuck said was not correct. and any way you leave the service is. some form of discharge and then he goes.

over this was the most detailed one so. we're going to read these discharges you. got the honorable discharge it's the. highest level given to those who. complete their service and are. discharged or are discharged early for. no fault of their own like a medical. issue that's one you want to shoot for. sure uh General discharge lower level uh. but given to those who have uh like a. minor misconduct or a performance issue. I was going to Hazard a a comical guess. on what that might be but I'm not going. to okay uh there's other than honorable.

or the OT that's a negative level so now. you've crossed the Rubicon okay and. you're not you're not good anymore and. it's given to people who have serious. Mis misconduct or VI uh or violations of. regulations then there are two more. you've got the bad conduct discharge or. the BCD this is actually punitive and. that is if if you were convicted by a. court marshal for something uh like. desert or assault or theft and then you. know what we've got last don't you yeah.

dishonorable and that is a punishment. for a serious offense by committing a. felony uh sorry for being pedantic guys. you weren't at all Scott uh but as a. veteran I find myself particularly. attuned to erroneous statements about. military matters sure and that's every. veteran Scott so you're in good company. and we heard from a lot of service. members and uh All Apologies for. screwing that up sometimes when I say. things off the Dome without researching. quite often in fact I'm dead wrong man.

well you really owned it Chuck like. somebody with an honorable discharge oh. thank you uh that was Scott Scott Oliver. thanks a lot Scott you you weren't. pedantic at all Chuck's right that was. very nicely put and we appreciate being. schooled um and also Chuck thank you for. selecting one where you were wrong and. not me yeah I guess we were military. schooled uh if you want to get in touch. with this like Scott did and school us. and do it nicely we love that kind of.

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