Kim Philby: Greatest Liar of All Time? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome into the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, too. And this is the podcast. As just. mentioned, we call it stuff you should. know. And by the way, we should say to. any new listeners, we're not saying you. should already know this stuff. So don't. be hostile toward us about that. We're. saying we think you should know this. because it's so interesting. We want to.

tell you about it. Yeah. We could have. changed the name of the show to things. that that you might find interesting, but then again, you might not as well, but that doesn't have a ring. Exactly. Yeah. There's no implied dummy in the. title of our our podcast. Okay. No. No. We're the dummies. So, I'll tell you somebody who wasn't a. dummy as far as it comes to being a. worldclass liar. Maybe England's. greatest liar ever. It was a spy from uh the World War II.

beginning early Cold War era named um. Harold Kim Philby. And if that name. rings a bell, well, just sit back and. enjoy this episode on a British spy. If. you don't know who Kim Philby is, sit. back and enjoy this episode on a British. spy. Your your voice is going up like you. were going to say something else. Is. that it? I I just wanted to replicate it. perfectly. So big thanks to Dave who helped us with. this. But uh Dave also wanted us to.

shout out and we want to shout out a. book by Ben McIntyre, A Spy Among. Friends, Colon Kim Philby and the Great. Betrayal. Uh and also a miniseries that. I have not watched that I think I. probably will now. A six-parter on. Amazon MGM called A Spy Among Friends. from 2023 starring the winsome Guy. Pierce. Oh yeah. as Kim Philby or Harold. Adrien Russell Philby as he was born in. India in 1912 because his dad was a.

colonialist. I can never say that word. right. I think you nailed it. Uh Philby. Kim, he was nicknamed Kim because there. was a Roger Kipling story, a book I. think about a street urchin um raised on. the streets of India who becomes a spy. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it really is. because he got this nickname as a kid. like before he knew he was going to be a. spy, right? He wasn't out and they're. like, "We're gonna call you Kim from now. on." He Yeah, he grew up to be a spy and.

it was he was nicknamed after a boy who. grew up to be a spy. So, it is pretty. interesting. But, um, everyone called. him Kim Philby and he was born in India. in 1912. His dad was a colonialist like. you said. his his sympathies actually. lay with um India and he he eventually. quit the service and went to become a uh. I think an adviser to this the king of. Saudi Arabia eventually. Oh wow. Well at. any rate uh he was born to a well-healed.

family. Uh his parents were gone a lot. He was raised by his Indian nanny. Um he. went to Cambridge. So he was sort of on. that track of of a um not you know. royalty or anything but probably. aristocracy you could say right uh and. when he went to Cambridge it was the. early 1930s pretty pretty rocky time uh. the great depression was happening and. that's when the fascists especially in. Germany and Italy saw their sort of. opportunity uh when people were wrecked. by poverty to step in and start.

controlling things right so communism. became a thing uh among young Cambridge. intellectuals at the time. Um, and. communism was viewed as the antidote to. fascism, which was on the rise at the. time in the late 30s. Um, and the reason. I was like, why? I don't understand. that. Um, because my geopolitics is seen. through the view of a 80s American kid. who lived through the end of the cold. war. Yeah. But communism is all about.

class and social equality. One of the. defining characteristics of fascism is a. rigid hierarchy. So, of course, the. aristocracy of Great Britain would be. fully on board with a a a kind of. ideology that said, "Yes, you're at the. top. You deserve to be at the top. You. should stay at the top." And so, they. they uh aristocracy at the time. definitely had sympathies with the Nazis. because of their fascist leanings. Um, and that did not sit well with these. young Cambridge intellectuals who uh had.

had bought fully into communism as a as. the the ideology to spread throughout. the world. Yeah. And it was especially a. way for um you know kids to to rebel. against what their parents loved, which. is a a classic thing that that kids and. teenagers and young adults do. Uh and in. this case, these like you said, these. young Cambridge elites were like, "Hey, communism is where it's at. uh forget. the this I was about to say patriarchy. but it was really you know everybody the. upper class altogether.

um and you know as far as Philby is. concerned he didn't he wasn't out there. calling for a revolution or anything and. let let's go burn it down uh he. apparently never officially joined the. communist party but he was he was a. communist through and through like uh up. until the very end he was very committed. to it uh something he did not grow out. of like his parents probably hoped he I. mean, out of all of the Soviet spies in. the UK at the time, he was probably the. most committed communist. Yeah. And as.

as you'll see, there were plenty of. chances to go a different way and he. never did. No, for sure. So, um, he was. at Cambridge and he met with a professor. and with this professor he said, "Hey, I. really want to help. communism, you know, spread throughout. the world. What can I do?" what as a. young aristocratic Cambridge grad do to. help communism? And this professor said, I've so in Vienna right now, they're. they're battling the communist comrades.

are battling a dictator named Angelberg. Dolphus and um Dolphus is a fascist. dictator and you can go to Austria and. help. I don't know how, but just go to. Austria and figure it out. And he did. Yeah. He was like, "Oh, uh, I was. thinking a letter campaign or something, but right, but sure, I'll go to Austria. and, uh, and fight a a ruthless. dictator." Uh, while he was there, he. went to Vienna, lovely town, by the way, one of my favorites in Europe. Uh, he. fell in love with a woman named Alice.

Litzy Coleman, who was another young. communist. Uh, they became. co-revolutionaries, and they, you know, hooked up also in, you know, in a more. romantic way, hugging and kissing, that. kind of thing. Okay. And Dolphus, the uh. the fascist dictator said, "All right, we got to get rid of these communists. and we we'll do so by whatever means we. need to." And that Litzy uh woman was on. that list. She was pretty well known or, you know, well known as far as the the. insider fascist dictators go, right? And.

they said, "All right, we got to get out. of here." They they realized the writing. was on the wall, so they got married. They fled to England. And in London, uh, he finally, uh, Kim Philby got in touch. with a real Soviet operative at a secret. meeting in Regent Park that was arranged. by one of Litzy's communist friends. And. it was game time. It was on from that. point forward. Yeah. So, this um, real. life communist was a Czech academic who. was undercover for the Soviets um, as.

basically a spy master. His name was. Arnold Deutsch, or at least that's what. he told people. I guess it's where. Germany comes up in this one. Um, his. code name and what he used to. communicate with people was auto OT. Uh, apparently he was huge on security. He. would make Philby take like three taxis. at least before they would meet. And. this guy was like, "Okay, I I can do. something with you. You're a like an. aristocratic. you're a member of the. upper crust of British society. And.

right now, the upper crust of British. society is if you're from them, you have. total trust across the board. Let's take. advantage of that. Yeah, he was he was. pretty ideal for that position. Um, but. he was like, "How good of an actor are. you, though, because that's what really. matters if you're going to get into. this." And Philby said, "Well, let's. just say this. Uh, one day Guy Pierce is. gonna play me in a streaming series, right? And he was like, "What does that. mean? That makes no sense at all." He.

said, "Okay, I'm a pretty good actor and. a good actor will eventually play me.". Um, he's really got to fall into this. part, you know, in such a perfect way. that, um, obviously no one's going to. find out. Uh, that's the ultimate goal. of being a mole is to be a great liar. And he was really, really good at it. Uh, one of the things he had to do. though was find a job to, you know, as. cover and he's like the perfect job for. this would be a journalist. Yeah. But. one other thing he had to do too was he.

had to he had to become at least. outwardly what he despised the most, which was the quintessential English. aristocrat. Yeah. Right-wing. Yeah. Yep. Right-wing fascist sympathies that. aren't particularly well hidden. um. super conservative, very loyal to to the. British crown. Um yeah, essentially. everything you think of when you think. of like a guy wearing a bowler hat in. the 40s in in Great Britain carrying an. umbrella on his forearm, right? Like he.

did not like these people and yet he he. now entered their world um where he. would stay essentially as a mole um for. years to come. And I mean it's I don't. really sympathize with him because of. who he was and what a traitor he was. Yeah. But I I do sympathize with him in. the idea of having to live your life. like that around people you despise and. have to pretend like you like them for. years on end or that you are one of them.

for years on end. That had to be that. had to definitely be rough on the the. old soul, you know. Yeah. You know, here's the thing. I never thought about. seen so many stories on this kind of. thing. We've read so many books and seen. so many movies about double agents and. people, you know, lying for cover, but I. always think about like, oh yeah, to. live that lie and to keep that up, that. must be hard. I until we did this. episode, I never thought about how hard. that would be to. just like be sleeping with the enemy.

essentially full-time and like all your. friends, all your social circle, everything that comes out of your mouth. like has to be the thing that you hate. the most, right? It's incredible. I. never considered how hard that would be. Right. Um, so you uh said that he was. told he needed a J O B. Yes. And he. became a journalist. J O R N A L I Sm. Right. That was his J O. Um and the. reason why it was such a great um.

profession for him is that you can go. all over the world as a journalist and. you're just like, "Yeah, I'm covering. the running of the Bulls, so here I am.". or um this is this Olympics is amazing, isn't it? Yeah. October Fest, let's do. it, right? Nobody's going to question. why you're in this country because. you're covering something. That's one. thing. Another thing, too, is if you are. covering like elite people, you're kind. of considered a member of the club just. in and of itself, right? So, people let.

their guard down around you because. you're an aristocrat. You're one of. them. They know you won't say the things. that they are saying off the record. You. won't print those in the paper, but you. could tell sell them to the Soviets. That's exactly right. So, he gathered. all sorts of off thereord secrets and. and all this stuff from from. interviewing people at the highest. echelons of power that they were sharing. with him because he was one of them. He. was just turning right around and giving. it to the Soviets like you said. So, his. his career as a journalist to start out. was it was a great choice. Yeah. And.

it's just further reinforced the more he. does it because he's not printing that. stuff. So you're like, "Oh, Philby can. really be trusted because I told him all. this off thereord stuff and he's not. printing it. This guy's great." That's. right. Uh so to to sort of uh bulk up. his cover, he got this job at the. Anglo-German Trade Gazette, which was a. British newspaper, but it was at least. in part financed by the Nazis. And it. was about just trying to get trade. relations between Britain and German. It. was like a friendly newspaper between. them. Yeah. Uh so he had to you know.

play this role of sort of quasi Nazi. sympathizer and lose all of his friends. in his life because all of his friends. were these you know sort of fellow. ideologically uh aligned people uh. fellow leftists maybe not all of them. communists but he wasn't hanging out. with these people until he started doing. this this right-wing sort of Nazi. sympathizing group. Yeah, he essentially. pulled a Christopher Hitchens and just. completely transformed from one way to.

the. other. So, um, at the time, uh, civil. war broke out. This is in the 30s as. well in in Spain. Have you ever seen The. Orphanage? Uh, yes. Very creepy. And it's set in. the time of the Spanish Civil War. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, it was. On one. hand, you had the fascists led by. Francisco Franco and they were fighting. the communists led by Franco Francisco. and he was supposed to be a war reporter. for the London Times. And um I mean he.

was writing for the Times, but really. what he was doing was working his way. into the good graces of the fascists so. he could spy on them for the Soviets who. would then in turn um tell what agents. to do what to undermine the fascist side. of the civil war. Right. Do you think. there was ever any confusion about those. two uh leaders? Oh, I I I made that up. I thought you did. Very subtle, though. Thank you. Uh I was. trying to like sniff you off the case,

but in a way that made me look as less. least dumb as possible. Well, that's why. you're the best all-around boy. Oh, man. Stop it. So, uh we should mention, you. know, sort of neither here nor there, but he and Litzy had been divorced by. this time. He was married four times. total, but um he would do things like. strike up affairs in order to get into. uh the places he needed to be. In this. case, uh he he had an affair with an. older woman, Franco's inner circle. But. while he was there, he uh his his car.

was was bombed essentially, not a car. bombing, but just hit by a a shelling uh. during a a bombing raid. And all three. passengers in the car that were not. named Kim Philby died, and he just had. minor injuries. So, he was actually. awarded the Red Cross of Military Merit. from Franco himself gave him this award. Yeah. One thing I saw real quick is that. um Kim Philby received the highest. military honor possible from the.

Spanish, the Soviets, and the English. all while he was a spy for the USSR. Wow, that's crazy. So, um, he gained so much access, like. he was friendly with the the the highest. levels of the fascist, um, side of the. of the Spanish government, um, that the. Soviets were like, we could just have. him off Franco at this point. And they. decided like, no, we're just going to. use up a valuable asset. And frankly, I'm not sure that that guy could do it. Yeah. Um, so they didn't have him kill.

Franco, but he he really proved his. worth by um infiltrating the fascists in. the Spanish Civil War. Um, and by this. time, well, should we take a break and. then come back and talk about his next. round of stuff? We got a break. Okay. Well, we'll be right back to talk about. his next round of stuff. [Music].

So, Chuck, um, I was saying that Philby. proved himself a very loyal communist. spy and an effective one, too. So, Otto's like, "Hey, man, you got any. friends? And Philby says, "Yes, yes, I do. As a. matter of fact, I have two very close. friends from my Cambridge days who I.

think would fit the bill perfectly." Um, one of them was named Donald Mlan. The. other was Guy Burgess, Burgess. I'm not. sure which way he said it. I also saw a. lot of conflicting information that Guy. Burgess recruited Philby and yada yada. yada, but I think that the way that. we've said it is correct. I think so. So. he how he gets uh Don Mlan, not American. Pie Don Mlan. Thank God. How he gets. Donald Mlan on on the uh on the Dole is.

he goes to dinner and he sort of hints. around, you know, like, "Hey, you know. what? What do you what do you think?". And Mlan was like, "I'm all in, buddy. This I've been waiting on this." So he. uh he had to do the same thing Philby. did was you know like leave all his sort. of leftist friends behind uh publicly. come out uh in favor of fascism. And his. other buddy Guy Burgess saw this. happening and was like hey what's going. on here dude this is really fishy. Uh I.

want in on this. Like I see what's. happening here. And Burgess was not I. think Mlan was a pretty decent fit for a. spy but Burgess was very loud. apparently a pretty obnoxious guy and he. was a barely closeted gay man at a time. where homosexuality was illegal. It was. a crime in England. All that all that to. say he was not a real sort of low-key. under the radar. You'll be a good spy. kind of guy. But the Soviets were like. he's fine. Yeah. It's crazy. Like he was. a loose cannon if there ever was one,

but they still recruited him anyway. Yeah. And they became known as the. Cambridge three. I think eventually. there would be a Cambridge five in total. though, right? Yeah, there were two. others that were kind of brought on. One. of which was this lone wolf who was kind. of acting independently, but what they. had in common is they had all five gone. to Cambridge or instructed at Cambridge, right? And ended up being Soviet spies. Oh, yeah. That part, too. Yeah. So, um, when World War II broke out, the Soviets. were like, "Oh, this is great. We're. allied with England, you know,

nominally, and we've got this guy on the. inside. Let's have him join military. intelligence." And just like everything. else, military intelligence was run by. the upper crust, the aristocracy of. Great Britain at the time. And so, um, just like he went to that lefty. professor at Cambridge and said, "What. can I do to help the communist cause?". This, um, spy version of, uh, Kim Philby. went to the British aristocracy and. said, "What can I do to help the crown?

I would really love to get into. intelligence." They're like, "Well, come. aboard to MI6. We don't need to vet you. We'll look at your background and see if. there's anything that pops up. Nothing. did. Great. Come aboard. Here's every. secret that we have in the entire. nation. Yeah. Like like later on they. literally asked like about the vetting. and like how could this get past you? And they were like, "Yeah, you came from. the right family." And they we knew the. same people basically. Yeah. And this is. how it was back then. Um by the way, look for a little uh preview. We got an. episode on MI6 coming out at some point.

Nice. Looking forward to that. Um, but. uh he's all of a sudden working for MI6. is in the perfect position to be a. double agent uh because of where he. worked, but also because he was I mean. this is why they get Guy Pierce to play. this guy. He was really really charming. guy apparently. Just very smart, very uh. quickwitted. Um apparently he would just. make you feel like you're the only. person in the room. Uh people really. really loved him and thereby trusted him.

very quickly. uh and a legendary. drinker. He could drink anyone under the. table. And if you're in a cocktail party. and you get people a little a little. tipsy on uh on on whiskey on that fine. scotch or British whiskey, they're going. to start spilling some secrets. And he. was he's like uh Karen Allen and in the. first Raiders, you know, she could drink. that guy under the table. So don't get. into a drinking contest with Kim Philby. or Karen Allen. No. Um, I think that.

Dave put it best though when he he. really brought it home for me at least. to describe how charming this guy was. He said, um, Dave compared him to Peak. Hugh. Grant. I almost wet my pants when I read. that. I was like, God, that's charming. That's how disarmed I was. I almost just. peed. I haven't seen Heretic yet. That it. looks though. I heard it's pretty good. Oh, have you seen Talk to Me? Uh, what's. that? It's another A24 horror movie.

Maybe. What's it about? I don't want to give it away. It's about. where you can um you can hold this um. this mummified hand and speak to the. spirit world. You've not seen it? It's. Australian. I have not seen that. I. would have remembered that. You're going. to love it. You've become quite a horror. movie guy over the past years. Yeah. No, I mean you like all kinds of stuff, but. uh does is Yumi into these uh scary. movies? Oh, no. She'll she'll hang out. on the couch with me and watch them, but.

she's not she doesn't watch them. Although, I think she would even like um. talk to me. It's just so well done, and. there's only a few parts that are like. scary. Scary. Yeah. Um it's just a. really wellthoughtout horror movie. It's. really cool. It's a good one. Well, and. you're you got an A24 tattoo on your uh. lower back, so I know you're an. adherent. Yeah, they really are great. Uh all right, where were we? Uh we were. at Hugh. Grant and we were talking about the. drinking. All right, I guess let's talk. about what was going on then uh with the.

Cambridge 3. This is uh a very. successful Well, all the Soviet spies. combined were really successful, including the Cambridge 3. They uh over. the course of their work, they sent the. Soviets more than 10,000 documents. during World War II. Just World War II. Oh, yeah. and and like the D-Day. invasion advance notice uh stuff about. the Manhattan project like some really. big fish they were getting fed this. information and sometimes this would you. know this would lead to people dying. because of information shared by Philby. and others. Yeah. So Kim Philby he wrote.

a memoir as we'll see later on but he. showed zero remorse essentially for any. of the lives that he um that he cost. Yeah. essentially. Um, one of the really. good examples of this is the some. members of the Catholic resistance in. Germany who were fighting the Nazis. during World War II. Um, they approached. the British intelligence. Mi We should. say MI6. I don't know if we said that's. the British equivalent of the CIA in.

America. Yeah. Is it militarybased? Because you said military intelligence. I thought they were just like the CIA. Uh, yeah. I don't know if they're. military intelligence or not. I guess. we'll find out when we do our MI6. episode. Exactly. Great point. But um. they came to MI6, some of these. resistance leaders came to MI6 and they. said, "Hey, we want to make friends with. you because we think the Allies are. going to win. We're fighting to make. sure the Allies win. And afterward, we. want to build a Christian democratic. Germany that's going to be super.

friendly with the West. So, let's work. together after the war." Okay. See you, Tata. For now. And um Philby as a member. of MI6 found out about this, told the. Soviets and um basically the names and. addresses of these people and the. Soviets went and killed them all because. the Soviets wanted Germany to be um. communist afterward, not open and. democratic and Christian. Um so after. the war when MI6 went looking for these. Catholic resistance leaders to help. rebuild Germany, they were gone. They.

had all been killed during the war. thanks to Kim Philby. Yeah. So that's. just one example of many uh where lives. were lost due to you know his. intelligence gathering. Um after World. War II, this is when uh obviously the. Americans and the Brits sort of turned. toward the Soviet Union and the threat. of communism is the main enemy and uh. you know kind of pre-Cold War stuff. And. you would think that this would be uh a. tough thing all of a sudden because. Philby is is really the enemy. Um but he.

was so good at what he did. Uh it was he. just had an inside position so it it it. was not easier but all of a sudden he. was like he was really in the mix. Yeah. And he was so good at lying. He was so. good at playing this part sleeping with. the enemy like you said year after year. after year um that that even when the. Soviets were the enemy now like he just. he just coasted right through it like it. was nothing like there had been no. change whatsoever for him. So he.

actually had a stroke of genius in 1944. He said, "Hey, we really need to start. worrying about these Soviets. I'm. worried that there's Soviet spies in. MI6, and I think we need to create a. counter intelligence section for MI6. dedicated to rooting out Soviet spies.". Oh, man. Do you know the wavos it takes. I know, man. To suggest something like. that when you're a Soviet spy, but at. the same time, it really just shows. Yeah, that was his mo. He would be like, "You can't possibly suspect me because.

I'm the one suggesting this." That's. what he did. And they were like, "Great. idea. Let's get somebody not you to do. this." And they hired a guy named Felix. Cowgill. Yeah, exactly. Get that old boy. Cowgill on it. And Philby was like, "Oh, that's that didn't go down like I wanted. because I really need to head up this. organization and not have this guy. Cowgill all of a sudden sniffing down my. neck." Uh so he starts a whisper. campaign to sort of get Calgill out of. there. That's exactly what happened. And. within a few months um Philby is.

standing there, you know, at the ready. to take over a Soviet spy all of a. sudden in charge of the Soviet counter. intelligence for MI6. So uh McIntyre in. his book, this is a pretty fun quote. Uh. he said the fox was not merely guarding. the hen house, but building it, running. it, assessing its strengths and. frailties, and planning its future. construction. You sound like Hank Aazerian and Mystery. Men the Sphinx. Great. I'll take that. I. think that's a great quote, too. He. definitely nails it. So, um, this is.

what But that's the reality now. Like. Kim Philby is the the in charge of. rooting out Soviet spies, yet he's a. Soviet spy for MI6. And Perfect. Yeah. So, things are going along smoothly for, I don't know, a couple of months. And. then there's this really big deal that. happens. There's a defector who worked. at the uh Soviet embassy in Istanbul. Uh. his name was Constantine Volovv. And. Volov went to the British embassy in. Istanbul. He said, "Hey neighbor, get. this. I know the names of dozens of.

Soviet spies embedded in in um British. intelligence all throughout. And I will. tell you their names if you give me. $50,000." And they're like, "$50,000 in. 2025 money." He goes, "No, no, no. $50,000 in 1944 money. It's a lot more. If you give me that and you help me and. my wife defect to the west, I'll tell. you all these people's names. And here's. a little here's a little bit of sugar on. top to get you interested. One of these. spies is the head of a section of the.

British Counter Espionage Service in. London. They said, "Oh boy, that's quite. a sweetener.". So Philby hears about this um and. instead of like, you know, freaking out, he was like, "No, no, no. I've got this. He said, "You know what? This this if. it's that uh inside, we need to get a. interview with this guy. Somebody needs. to go interrogate Volkov and how about I. do that?" And they're like, "Then. cowgill goes, no." Exactly. And he said,

"You know, I should do this." And they, you know, they trusted him so much at. this point. They're like, "Yeah, sure.". Like, who who better to send? Right. Uh. he goes to Istanbul to meet with Volkov, but he never showed up because the. Russians took care of that, right? Yeah. He told um the KGB that he that this. there was this Volkov defector in. Istanbul and they needed to take care of. him. So he looks totally innocent and. legit like he's the head of MI6 Soviet.

counter espionage department. Um, so it makes sense that he would go. interview him one, but it also just. makes him look so innocent. Why would. you go all the way over there to meet. with somebody you know is not going to. be there? Of course, he's innocent. He. went to Estambbul to meet the guy. That. guy just disappeared. That's all. Um, and it was just another master stroke. like that. I I'm just I mean I don't. take my hat off to liars very often, but. this guy definitely deserves a hat tip.

for coming up with this this stuff. I. mean, he was always one step ahead of. things. Uh, so much so that, you know, the the Soviets eventually thought that. he might be like a triple agent or. double crossing them or something. Um, because, you know, they were like, how. is this guy moved up so quickly and all. of a sudden he's running the department. MI6 that's to like it's pretty genius, comrade, but it's all very suspicious to. them. And they were a pretty paranoid. bunch uh at that point. They probably. still are. and they always wondered what.

the deal was, but like his information. always checked out. It was always. golden, so they they really had no. choice but to go along with things. Um, he would eventually go to America. Uh, he was assigned MI6 Chief in DC. So, if. he was like a a charming guy in England. with that accent and his drinking. ability, he was like, just multiply that. times 100 in the United States as far as. the charm factor goes. Right. Exactly. So yet again, he's done some amazing. maneuvering. He's in DC. He's hanging.

out with the the most connected embedded. members of the CIA, the FBI, um the. diplomatic circuit from the State. Department, like everybody who's anyone. in DC, this guy's partying with. And you. said that he was well known as just like. a he had a hollow leg. He was just such. an amazing drinker. He could drink as. well as anybody. like Marion from uh. Raiders of the Lost Arc. You said. apparently he could get so drunk that he.

couldn't engage in a conversation, but he was always listening and he could. still type up a pretty great report the. next day for his handlers based on the. stuff he'd overheard while he was. blackout drunk essentially. Um so this. really jived with America like the. Americans at the time they love drinking. like that just like the Brits maybe even. more so. So he would just drink with. everybody. Okay, but close to tide at. least you can agree. So he would just. drink with everybody and that's how he.

became a trusted confidant apparently. but also he was a genuine friend like he. met some people along the way um that he. really became friends with uh and I. think later on he said that he missed. some of them but that combination of. being one of them in the intelligence. community being able to drink as well as. anybody so he can have fun at cocktail. parts being charming and then also being. a legit friend he really got his hooks. into people uh over in the US as well.

Yeah, for sure. One of the guys he. really buddied up with, his name was. James Angleton. Uh he was a counter. intelligence chief of the CIA for two. decades. So good good guy to know, right? Uh they had already met um. apparently from when they were younger. in England. So they were, you know, hooked up again and became really really. close. And so he thinks they're like. really good friends. So he's just. spilling everything to Philby because. they're buddies, right? Uh he one. example is he told Philby about a.

military operation called operation. valuable where the Brits and the. Americans were going to overthrow the. dictator of Albania uh to keep them from. joining the Soviet block and they were. training exiles to sort of mount this. fight uh you know against their against. their dictator. And Philby passes this. along to to Moscow and before you know. it, these Albanian authorities are like. ready and waiting when this uprising. happens and just slaughtered all these. foreign trained exiles and basically. quashed everything. The revolution was.

no more, right? And so there's a whole. bunch of uh heads also on Philby as well. from that. Yeah, we should probably take. another break. Yeah. Yes, let's take a. break. All right, we'll come back and. talk about well Kim Philby right after. this. [Music].

All right. So, we're back here for act. three. Uh it is now 1946 and we're going. to talk a little bit about something. called the Venona decryption. That was. uh you know everyone had their secret. codes that they used to encrypt things. in those days and they still do. Uh but. 1946 American cryptologologists cracked. that code uh that the Soviets were using. uh using the Venona decryption and they.

said hey let's just not use this going. forward. Let's go back and dig through. all the stuff from World War II and see. if we can get anything out of that. And. in 1950, they decoded a message from the. past that identified a Soviet spy. Uh, no, not Yuri. It's not Well, I was about. to ruin No Way Out, a movie that came. out like 30 something years ago, but I'm. not going to do that. Okay, I'll just. say Yuri. Uh, because it's a really good. movie, and you should see it if you. haven't. Okay. But, uh, they identified. a Soviet spy named Homer, uh, who worked.

at the British embassy in DC in 1944. And Philby was like, "Oh man, I'm. reading this thing. Homer's MLAN. It's. my friend, right? And if they if they. get him, then my cover's blown." And you. know, right now he's in a good spot. because everyone thinks he's he's like. me, just a straightup Cambridge boy, right? Who's who's doing God's work for. the crown. Um, but more evidence started. coming out and another decoded message.

uh came out saying Homer's wife was. pregnant and staying with her mother in. New York. and he was like, "It's really. obvious it's you now. So, I got to I got. to kick this thing into action." Yes. So, um I guess as an example of what kind of. friend he was, he took it upon himself. to get in touch with the KGB and be. like, "Lean's blown. He needs to get out. of here." But just Mlan, um because if. just Mlan had to flee and it seemed like. it was just Mlan who was the spy, he. could weather that pretty well. Mhm. He.

could be like, "I can't believe this. I. was as duped as you were." Right. If um. his other friend, the other member of. the Cambridge 3, um Guy Burgess also. fled. It would be really hard for Kim. Philby to be like, "Oh my gosh, I can't. believe my my two best friends were. Soviet spies, but not me." So he told. Guy Burgess like, "Mlan's leaving. You. cannot leave. You have to stay here. We're going to ride this out together.

just we'll be okay. And Guy Burgess said. yes, absolutely. And he dipped with MLAN. too, leaving um leaving Kim Philby to. hold the bag. Yeah. And he was holding. the bag because he didn't know this was. coming. Uh Moscow didn't say that was. going to happen. So word gets out. It's. pretty clear that there's a third man uh. cue the zither. And that had, you know, said, "Hey, Moscow, here's what's going. on." So he the writing's on the wall. He. knows he's um about to be found out. uh.

even though he had all this protection. as the Cambridge boy, these other two. guys being Cam Cambridge gentleman uh. being moles and and just sort of. disappearing all you know it could be. anyone. So he knew that the the writing. was on the wall. He's uh everyone's. starting to remember like wait a minute. all all three guys were super leftist. like communist in college and they. really turned they really changed their. mind on how they felt about things. ideologically really quickly. Uh, and. then there's also the Volkoff affair and.

Operation Valuable and like all the. things that Phil's assigned to are are. are going tits up. Yeah. Well put. He He. could have fled, too. He didn't, though. He's like, I think the best thing I can. do is stay here. And just by having the. guts to stay here, it'll make me look. all the more innocent. Like, it will. back up my claim, right? Like, what. person in his right mind would be a. Soviet spy and when he's basically outed. stick around to say, "No, I'm not a. spy." And that's exactly what he did. And. MI6 at the end were they said, "Okay,

we'll believe you." And they circled the. wagons around him again because he was. an aristocrat. But the CIA, the FBI, MI5, which is like the UK's version of. the FBI, all of them were like, "This. guy Kim Philby, he's the third man. He's. a Soviet spy. And MI6 would not hear of. it." And there is actually a riff that. developed between MI6 and the other. agencies. But the reason why MI6 was. willing to do this was because like we.

said he was such a good friend that his. true friends uh who were left who. weren't spies came to his defense and. they staked their reputations on Kim. Philby not being the third man uh the. Soviet spy that was still embedded in. the in MI6. Yeah. And those were James. Angleton, who we talked about, the CIA. guy for 20 years, and a guy named. Nicholas Elliott, a career guy at. MI6. So, uh, they they kept him from.

being prosecuted. He he couldn't still. work at MI6. He was forced to resign. They couldn't save his job. But when. this all came out, uh, he he should have. been it should have been like over for. him. But he held a again, the ways in. this guy, right? He holds a press. conference at his mom's house in London. and like live on camera just very openly. and convincingly answers all these. pointed questions from reporters saying. like my two friends deceived me. Uh. everyone ended up believing him. Uh and. while this made him like technically a.

free guy, he didn't have that job. anymore and he he thrived on that job. So he was pretty miserable at this point. and drinking way way too much. Yeah. Um, for not the last time in his life, he. almost drank himself to death between. 1951 and 1956 when he was just totally. unmed in a drift. He was no longer an. MI6. The Soviets had cut off contact. with him. And um, his friend Nicholas. Elliot, one of those guys who had stake. their reputation on Kim Philby not being. a Soviet spy, he pulled some strings. He.

used to be this MI6 station chief in. Beirut and he got in touch with uh some. friends at the Observer and at the. Economist and said, "Why don't you take. this guy Kim Philby as one of your. reporters? He's a longtime journalist. He used to be a journalist and and. covered the world. Why don't you put him. to work in Beirut?" And they did. They. they put him in as a Middle East. correspondent for both of those papers. And while this happened, uh, or sort of. shortly after this happened, Elliott.

said, "And you know what? You can start. working for MI6 again, just on the down. low, right? We'll we'll throw you some. bones here and there. You can go to. work." So now Philby has this once. again, he's a journalist again. He's. quietly working for MI6 again, and he. could have just, you know, played it. straight from this point forward and. been like, "All right, I got back on. track." But he calls up the Ruskies and. like, "Guess what, old boys? Guess who's. back in?" uh and immediately, you know, because of his his love of communism is. one thing I think, but the the author of.

that book, McIntyre, um also makes a. point that and I think a good one, that. he was he was sort of addicted to this. kind of lifestyle, the deception. lifestyle of of drinking and. philandering and leading these two. lives. Like he seemed to really thrive. off of that uh subtrauge and could not. give it up, right? Um so he was back in. it again. and he was happy to be alive. once again. And I think this lasted for. about a year. Um a woman named Flora.

Solomon um came forward. She had been. reading some of Phil's articles in. either The Observer, the Economist, or. both that were unflattering toward. Israel. And Flora Solomon was dedicated. to the cause of Israel and did not like. that. So she said, "You know what? I've. had this thing in my pocket for 30. years. Kim Philby approached me when we. were back at Cambridge and asked me if I. wanted to become a Soviet spy and I said. no and then I just let it go for 30.

years until he ticked me off. And so. this was this was it. Like she said this. guy is a Soviet spy. Told an editor at. one of the papers either the economist. or the observer again. They turned. around and told MI6 and Kim Philby was. in again in trouble and this time he had. nobody to swoop in to help him out. Um. he was he was basically cooked. I feel. like those kind of loose ends don't. happen in intelligence anymore. Like oh. this woman who you tried to recruit as a.

spy is just out there with this. information. I read why? Why? Because. MI6 at the time was doing something. called negative vetting. they would look. at your record, your your file, whatever. they had on you, and as long as nothing, no red flags popped out, you were in. Rather than positive vetting where they. conducted an actual background, like a a. a background investigation on you that. they went to the trouble of like doing. research, as long as there was no. problems, you were in. So, that was one.

reason why it changed. H Okay. Well, that makes sense. I'm glad you knew. that. Thank you. So, uh where were we? Okay. So he was in trouble. Um he. couldn't deny, you know, what was going. on any longer. Uh his buddy Nich. Nicholas Elliot was was pretty upset. obviously. He volunteered to go to. Beirut and get a confession out of. Philby and he tried to deny it to him. still, but Elliot was he was super upset. at this point and he was like, "You're.

you're my friend. You you pulled a. charade over my eyes. The blank the. sherrod over my eyes. the wool the. woolly blanket has been pulled over my. eyes, old boy. And he was he was he was. ticked off. And finally, uh he was like, "Hey, listen. Give me a full confession. I can make sure you're not prosecuted. for this." Uh Philby knew that like even. if that happened, he wouldn't be like a. free man. Like the MI6 was all of a. sudden going to put the thumb screws on. him to try and get all the information. he ever had about the Soviets, right?

The Soviets were probably going to try. and snuff him out, right? So he was. like, "I got to just leave. I got to get. the heck out of here. Well, he. compromised. So, just this past January, they declassified the confession that he. gave to Nicholas Elliott. And in it, he. basically said, "Yes, I spied for the. Soviets, but only while they were allies. to the UK just in World War II, and in. 1946, I stopped." So, he compromised. He. had to give them something, but he also. didn't give them enough that the Soviets. would want to kill him. Right. Right.

Well, hopefully. Right. Exactly. And. that um Nicholas Elliot had a great. quote when he he went to Beirut. He. said, "I once looked up to you, Kim. My. God, how I despise you now. I hope you. have enough decency left to understand. why." Yeah. So painful. Philby is. sitting there. He's doing three days of. interviews with Nicholas Elliott. And um. on the third day, he's like, "That's. enough. I'm out of here." and he um. vanished from Beirut in January of 1963.

um shortly after telling his wife he'd. meet her at a diplomatic dinner party. that evening and he hopped on the Soviet. freighter and slipped away. Slipped away. so easily that even the KGB was like, "We're pretty sure Nicholas Elliot let. him slip away." Yeah. And he may have. because just to let him quietly leave. was a lot less embarrassing for England. than to put him on trial and to go. through this big public spectacle where. all these people are trotted out and ask. like how did this guy get away with this. for so long under your watch, right? So.

he he left he lived in in Moscow for the. rest of his life for 25 years. Uh you. can Google pictures of like an elderly. Kim Philby walking around Moscow. Mhm. Uh he eventually would die in a Russian. hospital in. 1988 and never said a bad word about the. reign of terror from Stalin or anything. like that. He got the Order of Linen, like you said, was awarded the the. highest honors uh in in three different. very opposing places. Right. Exactly. Uh. because he was so good at lying in his.

spy craft. He also I mean he was. considered I think still to this day is. considered a national hero in Russia. Yeah, he was featured on a postage stamp. in 1990. um as part of the Soviet Intelligence. Agent series of postage stamps. Um and I. think he got full military KGB honors. when he was buried in Moscow. Um, and. yet I read this uh blog called Cipher. Brief and they basically say the big.

problem that he did in addition to all. the lives lost because of him um was. just the damage he did at at creating. paranoia in all of the intelligence. agencies which tore themselves apart. looking for Soviet spies because they. found out that there were not just three. but five. Yeah. and they tore themselves. up for decades to come looking for that. fifth one because they didn't know who. it was. And it turned out it was a guy. named John. Karncross. Um, and then there was. another one named Anthony Blunt who was.

the art curator for the crown. Um, but. he was a traitor. At any rate, uh, that. was the one of the big lasting legacies. Kim Philby left behind him was just. utter paranoia. Yeah. I mean, if it. could have been them, it could have been. anyone. And it was also this sort of. this bedrock thing of that up until then. had been, you know, if you come from the. right family, if you come from the right. world, then you're to be trusted as an. insider. Mhm. It rocked them to the very. foundation. Mhm. Well put, Chap. Thanks.

You got anything else? Well, no, but. since you said chap, I think you know. what that means. It means that I've. unlocked listener mail. That's right. Uh this is from It says. Emily, but there's a little uh is it a. accent goo or grav which is the one that. goes from northeast to southwest like I. know. Okay, that's above the e. So I'm. not sure how Emily pronounces uh the.

name there. Might be. no. Like you would pronounce the e if it. has an accent. There's something to it. E Mill. All right. Hey guys, been listening. since around 2018. Provided me much. comfort, entertainment, and knowledge. So, thank you. I'm from Montreal and I. love your poutine short stuff episode. I'm somewhat of a poutine super fan and. purist. It's been on my mission to try. and rate as many poutines as possible. throughout Quebec to find my favorite. I.

thought I'd share my personal poutine. rating system with you because I found. it to be a rigorous method. Nice. Four. criteria. Number one, cheese curd. How. squeaky are the curds too big or too. small? Okay. Number two, gravy sauce. Too sweet, tomatoey, not salty enough, too runny? Tomatoey? I don't know. Okay. Uh, French fries. Too limp. Is the cut. too thick? Are they tasteless? Boo.

Yeah. Do they taste like Wendy's. tasteless fries? Oh, not on the Wendy's fries, huh? No. Pretty good. Dipped in a Frosty though. Yes. Uh, assembly. Is the cheese, gravy, fry ratio just right? That's a big one. Yeah. Is the portion too big or too. small? And bonus fifth criteria, value. for money. Oh, that's a good good extra. one there at the end. Yeah, pretty good. Uh, even though poutine is a simple. dish, guys, the beauty of it is so uh. that it can be adapted to everyone's own.

personal taste. Thank you very much for. the podcast to all the team. Have a nice. day. That is from Im. Thank you very. much, Emil Emily. Um, that is a great. test, a litmus test if you will, for. poutine. In my opinion, it would be. really tough for the gravy to potato. ratio to be too much gravy. It'd be easy. to be too little gravy, but too much. gravy would be hard to achieve in my. opinion. That could lead to a soggy fry, though. Yeah, that just means you're not.

eating them fast enough. Ah, good point. All right. Well, if you want to be like. Emily and send us your own personal. litmus test for something or other, we. love that kind of stuff. You can send it. to stuffodcast@. [Music]. iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know. is a production of iHeart Radio. For. more podcasts, iHeart Radio, visit the. iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or. wherever you listen to your favorite. shows. [Music].