Jonestown | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too The Three Amigos the twah Musketeers. the trace BL Chase all that back. together again in a brand new year 2024. that's right uh in in our time this is. our First Recording after.

our uh increasingly long Christmas break. which is just. wonderful yeah I feel like Jerry sucked. Us in that first week quite a bit it was. like a quasi work week that we weren't. supposed to have which I'm still a. little mad about yeah but not recording. uh so it's a nice long break but I. always feel like we have to kick or at. least I have to kick the rust off a. little bit oh yeah for sure for sure I. think we're going to do great though. because it doesn't feel Rusty I'm sure.

we'll be rusty but it doesn't feel like. we're going to be yeah oh can I say a. quick thing too yeah uh this is. something that it didn't occur to me. until we were on the break like we. always like to thank people around the. holidays for supporting stuff but uh I. think we should specifically thank. people who operate as our back Getters. and our quasi quality control people. because all the time we're we get. letters from people that say like uh or.

emails that say like Hey You misspelled. this word in the podcast release or this. one came out twice or this ad is really. offensive so maybe you guys want to. double check that right uh that kind of. thing like it just feels good people are. always really kind and and alert us to. things that we should be paying. attention to because sometimes things. slip through and I just want to say. thanks for everyone looking out for us. man when did that occur to you how long. have you been hanging on to that one not. I mean me it was over the break when I.

think we got a couple of things about. either an ad or something and I was like. you know what we should thank people for. for getting our back and letting us. alerting us to stuff so that's what. triggered it some emails you didn't just. like sit bow up right in the middle of. the night and think oh. God no well that was nice of you Chuck. yeah I. age yeah we'll start adopting that at. the end of the year the holidays or. something like that how about that nope. that's the only time we'll ever do it oh. okay cool I'm fine with that.

too um so we're talking today about. something I've been avoiding for a while. I started to um look into this and and. start researching it and I was going to. suggest it a couple years ago and I was. like this is one of the bleakest things. that's ever happened outside of war in. in history it's up there for sure and uh. it really sucks you in in the grimmest. possible way when you have to like. really dive in and research cuz we're. talking about Jones town and for anybody.

who's even everyone is at least. passingly familiar with the word. Jonestown the name Jonestown or you. might have heard you know the phrase. drinking the Kool-Aid like youve really. bought into something you might even be. brainwashed that came out of Jonestown. um true or not. and when you when you talk about it. though it's not something you can talk. about fliply it's not something you can. just kind of Breeze through like you. really have to get in there and. understand what the heck was going on. cuz it's such a bizar.

horrible um event yeah that that um it. just really kind of sucks you in and. when you get in there it really it's. Grim it's a grim it was a grim. research event for me yeah I mean it's. so Grim that a a band named themselves. after it it with a piy pun attached yeah. one of the great band names of all time. the Brian Jones sound. Massacre Oh do you think that is oh yeah. I think it's a great I have a hard time. with pun band names espe especially the.

sort of beginning middle end ones mhm uh. like Kathleen Turner overdrive yeah I. don't know I don't know I'm with you I'm. with you on the Kathleen Turner. overdrive it's clever but it's one of. those ones you hear once and you're like. that's funny I think the difference. between those two bands though is the. Brian Jonestown Massacre are actually. like was awesome hardcore musicians yeah. they were good that have like a bleak. enough Outlook that they could take that. that name and it's not just a like a.

elbow you in the ribs kind of joke yeah. and Brian Jones like another classic. musician whereas Kathleen Turner I love. Kathleen Turner but I don't know it just. seemed a little extra P she can't even. play the. spoons are you kidding she's a great. Spooner um not only did Brian Jones to. Massacre name themselves that they also. have a song called The Ballad of Jim. Jones have you heard that one oh no it's. it's they got harmonica it's real kind. of Bob Dillan interesting uh yeah it's. really something it's something to go.

check out I don't know if everybody's. going to like them yeah but uh some. people probably will yeah and we should. also point out this is a you know this. is the stuff you should know 45ish. minute overview like this could be way. way longer and multi- episodes long if. we really got into all the sort of ups. and downs of Jim Jones through his uh. Odd Life yeah that's a good idea I. wonder if anyone's ever done a. multi-part podcast on J swn okay I. thought you were being serious yeah no. totally I mean yeah it but I'm glad you.

said that because it is true like. there's a lot a lot about this and we'll. try to get everything we talk about. right though right that's right and uh. thanks to the grabster for the help on. this. one yeah for sure way to go grabster um. and we should probably say just just a I. don't even know if we need to give an. overview of what happened we could. probably just jump in and start and talk. about Jim Jones the guy at the center of. this whole thing right well I think. people get mad when we do that assuming. that people know uh okay so maybe just. the quick of uh spoilers is that on.

November 18th. 1978 uh more than 900 people died and. Guana uh at the at the hands of a. sadistic cult leader named Jim Jones and. now we can. start right well the big twist to all. that is is he didn't personally kill. them physically he used his power to um. get them to kill themselves it's just. it's as weird and twisted as that so Jim.

Jones is the kind of person or he was. the kind of person. who could could actually make something. like that happen he was a very very rare. individual I've seen him yeah um uh. diagnosed retroactively as Psychopathic. and then I think his personality. disorders got a little more nuanced I've. seen much more recently um that he was a. malignant narcissist there was something. wrong with that guy something was wrong.

with Jim Jones from start to finish but. it seems to have gotten way way worse. over time but one thing that he showed a. real penchant for early on in life was. preaching not religion he was not it. turns out a religious person he doesn't. seem to have believed in much of any of. the stuff he was preaching but preaching. was his way of like funneling attention. adoration money importance to himself he.

figured out very early on yeah he he was. on record that he was not so into. religion even though he was tied to. various churches over the years uh. including the one he started the. people's Temple uh which we'll talk. about in Greater detail later uh but one. thing he was which is I didn't know a. ton about the guy sort of pre uh. Jonestown and I was surprised to learn. that he was a um sort of a a socialist. SL communist anti-.

segregationist who actually did a lot of. you know uh I hate to characterize it as. good work but it was good work because. it's you know it's hard he was such an. awful. human uh but he he led a lot of De. segregationist causes in Indiana very. successfully for a number of years I saw. someone on Reddit say that had he died. on the way to California we would. remember him today is one of the early.

civil rights leaders yeah I mean that's. true it is true and I I get what you're. saying your reticence to like Praise Him. in any way shape or form but he. definitely did walk the walk like he. fought for integration at a time when. white people were not doing that Jim. Jones is white we should say uh but he. mostly learned that he um was best. preaching generally toward black. congregants um and that that kind of. just drove his desire to um to integrate.

even further so much so that as he got a. little more power one of the first. things he did was become the um kind of. the Civil Rights Zar for. Indianapolis and he actually it wasn't. like just a label that he went around. and introduced himself as he went to. work and started integrating places and. like penalizing places that hadn't. integrated yet in Indianapolis yeah. absolutely um initially he was a uh he.

was involved with the Methodist Church. uh he was involved with them even though. they were not necessarily anti-. segregationist did not necessarily want. their congregations to be of mixed race. uh but they were apparently supportive. of his uh sort of Socialist Communist. leanings and this was in the very early. 1950s uh and we should point out he was. married by this point he got married in. 1949 to a woman named marcelene Baldwin. mhm uh who was a hospital orderly and uh.

love bombed her apparently and a couple. years later they moved to Indianapolis. where that's when he got involved with. the Methodist and you know started sort. of spreading his anti- segregationist. word yeah um so after I don't know what. happened with the Methodist but. eventually they got sick of him and um. pushed him out of the church and he. moved over to um evangelicalism yeah he. called Apostolic socialism because one.

of the things about. him not only did he figure out that. preaching was a way to like attract. people uh he figured out that that. religion was a way it was like a a. trojan horse to get people to um start. thinking about socialism right because. there's so many like um parallels. between you know I ideal socialism and. um Christian teaching ideal Christian. teaching I should say that um like it's.

it's pretty easy to get people who are. already predisposed toward following. Jesus and his Christian teachings to. start thinking about taking care of your. you know fellow downtrodden humans too. yeah yeah for sure uh and he would. eventually get involved in uh like you. were talking about the. evangelism is that the word evangelic. ISM yeah yeah yeah you're right uh and. he would fall into uh fall into the camp.

of the the Pentecostals uh and even more. so there was uh a group of I I just call. it I guess Pentecostal plus which was. the latter rain movement uh and that was. like they off uh they splined off from. the Pentecostal church because they were. even more sort of out there than the. Pentecostals were as far as like hey um. we get prophecies directly from God MH. we some of us have Supernatural Powers. uh they would use sort of sometimes good.

oldfashioned uh Traveling Show. Vaudeville Medicine Man style uh stage. magic to you know look like they knew. what they were talking about and it was. pretty out there but he found that that. was a pretty good uh audience for. himself and what he called uh I mean he. basically said you know through the. manifested sons of God which is a. Doctrine in the latter rain movement. like hey God picks out certain special. people that he gives like basically the. powers of Jesus Christ and I'm one of.

them right yeah this this group of. Elites will prepare the world at end. times for Jesus's return and they are. essentially Jesus just divided up into. different human forms and Jim Jones is. like I'm one of those guys too check me. out so that was like a weird a weird way. to go um but it was also sensible if you. look at him from the lens of strictly a. huster who was taking advantage of. people of course he's going to go into. like I'm Jesus by the way way it's just. it's just such a lazy way to take.

advantage of people yeah and you know. like he was able to do that because like. most cult leaders uh he was very. charismatic uh he was also a strange. person Ed dug up this one story that I. had never heard that at one point in his. life he was like you know what I'm not. going to uh take place in a conversation. with anyone unless I initiate it so. literally people would come up and. address him and talk to him and he just. wouldn't answer back yeah if they were. really persistent to' be like I can't. hear.

you very strange thing but just sort of. a example of what an odd duck he was uh. a lot of people did find him sort of. creepy and off-putting but he did have. that Charisma you don't get cult. followers unless you're a charismatic. dude and he he was that he you know he. had that jet black hair and sideburns uh. he had a sort of elisy look yeah we put. yep which by the way is still a thing uh. I went to Memphis which is you know. where my mom grew up and where I used to. go as a child uh with my mom and Emily.

and Ruby and there are still those dudes. walking around Memphis that are like in. their 70s now and have these big. sideburns and pompados like these sort. of Memphis Mafia looking guys yeah it's. really interesting I was like oh wow of. course Memphis still has those guys for. sure where where where else are they. going to go what else are they going to. do nothing that's what they. do that's what you can do in Memphis. Yeah so anyway he was one of those guys.

uh you know later in life he was very. well known for wearing those um steel. rim sort of squarish I guess they were. sunglasses or were they also reading. glasses I think they were like early. um Transitions lenses it looks like. almost they were just constantly in the. in between State well listen we could. debate Jim Jones's uh eye. diagnosis all day long I'm guessing he. they were reading glasses because I I. read an account of him looking over them.

at people in the room so he probably was. reading glasses which is also an. intimidating move I think for sure I I. get also the impression that he was. wearing those kind of in between. sunglasses because um at some point in. the 60s he started taking drugs maybe. even earlier than that but definitely by. the 60s he was taking speed um and then. later on like sedatives and Quaaludes. and stuff and as the 70s started to wear. on he was really getting into those so.

he probably needed those glasses on some. days so that you couldn't see what his. eyes looked like in the middle of the. afternoon you know there's a lot of. elbis in this story actually yeah for. sure uh should we take a break for sure. all right we'll be right back. [Music]. everybody.

[Music]. all right so Jim Jones has been sort of. involved in several different. denominations and churches worn out as. welcome in most of them and eventually. is like you know what I'm going to start. my own church uh which is step one if. you're gonna uh form a cult actually. that's not true there were plenty of. Cults without churches but that was his. route and so he started the people's.

temple in. 1955 and was really successful with it. he had you know no trouble recruiting. members and by the early. 1960s uh he was so popular and he had. such a following that he was able to. continue his work uh desegregating. businesses and you know other you know. this wasn't like a national movement he. kind of was one of those think local. guys MH and uh like you mentioned. earlier in 1960 the mayor of.

Indianapolis said all right you're the. director of our Human Rights Commission. right and um like I said he took that. and ran with it and started to really um. kind of rack up more and more interest. and I'm not exactly clear on some of the. documentaries you see about like his. rise to power and influence um they the. early stuff takes place in like a. traditional Church it looks like a. church you can tell it's a church it's.

just you know um uh what do they call. those I guess charismatic churches where. people are like dancing and everything. and clapping and he's healing people um. I'm not sure at what point it started it. could have been Indianapolis it probably. was but he started to just say more and. more like bizarre stuff over time and. one of the first bizarre things that he. said that had a really big impact on the. history of the people's Temple was that. um there was going to be a thermonuclear.

war on July 15th 1967 the bombs were. going to drop I think is how he put it. and he he apparently got the six and the. Seven transposed because what he meant. was July 15th 1976 the bombs are going. to drop but he convinced his. congregation or a lot of his. congregation I think at least a hundred. families from Indianapolis to move to. rural north northern California to. basically set up a safe haven a little. kind of commune uh for the people's.

Temple it was a it was his first really. truly big um show of power over other. people's lives because just take just. think about it for a second you you go. to church right and you um go and you. like listen to the sermon and everything. and you have probably like some friends. at church or whatever and then you come. home and church is done for the week for. a lot of people maybe you go one other. day that's about it.

imagine being so into church that you. move your family across the country. because your preacher is telling you. there's going to be a thermonuclear war. and we all need to go to Northern. California that takes a real level of. like. iness um that from congregants and it. was a real show of like faith and a test. of faith for people and he was very. successful with it and I think that did. nothing but just embolden him further. yeah absolutely uh and by this time we. should point out too that he had started.

uh quite a large family with Marceline. uh at her suggestion and apparently he. was super into it as well uh she wanted. to have a rainbow family so they adopted. quite a few kids of all different you. know uh nationalities and ethnicities uh. they had one Native American child they. adopted uh several Korean kids uh a. black child um I believe one of his uh. adopted daughters was killed by a drunk. driver in 59 and then they adopted her.

younger sister uh which you know is. pretty amazing uh and then they also had. their sole biological child in. 1959 uh Stephan Gandhi Jones right who. uh you would if you look him up you will. see lots of he's very active in his you. know I was about to say uh his father's. Legacy today but you know not obviously. supporting his dad's Legacy but like he. you know during the 2018 commemoration.

of the Jonestown uh Massacre I guess is. it a massacre or just Mass deaths what. would you even call that I it just. depends on your perspective but yeah I. think you could get away calling it a. massacre for sure yeah but he led that. uh ceremony um and also acknowledged. that you know Hey listen it's uh a can. of worms that I I'm doing this to begin. with and people have things to say about. me or don't agree with certain things I. say then like let's please have that. conversation but he's he's pretty vocal. and and public to this day yeah he.

wasn't just a kid at the time like. toward the end of the people's Temple he. was the head of the security Force um at. the time when they were in Guyana which. we'll talk about soon um yeah he's in a. really strange way very brave for like. showing his face in public as you know. who he is yeah uh another interesting. thing happened that's pretty key to the. story uh before he said hey everybody. let's move to California. uh he moved his just his family to Rio.

deiro Brazil because of this supposed. impending nuclear disaster and on the. way there he stopped in a country in. South America called Gana and just got a. little taste of what life was like there. and that definitely planted a seed so. he's uh I believe in. 1964 he's planning this move a couple of. hours North of San Francisco to yukia. California and at that point point he. has already at least visited and. preached in.

Gana uh right that's a great setup so he. when he gets to Brazil he's basically. like left and taken his family like you. said to get away from thermonuclear war. but he's been like but you guys you know. you stay back here and and um keep the. keep the temple going and apparently. there was no one there with his strength. or Charisma because um the temple fell. apart almost immediately or it started. to it threatened to so just after even a. couple of months he had to go back and.

like get everything back in line and. back in order uh and ended up staying. there staying in California again for a. while um I don't I guess for several. more years I think do you remember when. it was he moved to Brazil at. first uh he moved to Brazil in. 1963 oh okay so yeah he came back um he. came back to Indianapolis I guess is. what it was this would have been pre-. California yeah and in California he. found found you know obviously in. Northern California uh he would find in.

the 1960s quite a few people in that. area that were into his message of. socialism right uh pretty ripe for. recruiting and he would eventually move. into San Francisco itself uh and did. pretty well there like so well that he. had a lot of followers who had a lot of. and had a lot of swayer with them so. local politicians started saying hey we. need to get in line with this guy. because he has a lot of influence at the. voting booth like Harvey Milk and mayor. George Moscone were uh you know like.

actively courting him I think they named. him or at least the mayor named him. chairman of the San Francisco's Housing. Authority commission yeah because um he. he basically took credit for mone's um. uh win as mayor he very he barely eak. out a victory and Jim Jones had. delivered um several hundred if not a. couple thousand votes toward toward. mcone and he said you you owe me. and he became the the public housing.

director or a member of the board and. apparently um just to kind of show his. his influence and his clout and how. great he was at those housing meetings. um his followers would come members of. The People's Temple would come and cheer. him on and clap and applaud sometimes. give him a standing ovation when he. would give a little speech about public. housing or something like that it was. really weird but by this time in San. Francisco late 60s early 70s uh PE like.

people like that were a dime a dozen. yeah he was politically connected to um. to people who are like this guy like you. said he can deliver the goods yeah yeah. um so much so that whenever there was. like unfavorable press about him and. we'll talk about some of the stuff they. were they were writing about him in a. second um he could actually get it. stifled he had the connections to be. like this article's going to come out on. me can you make sure it doesn't come out. um so he could stop like uh descent and.

oppress any Outsiders who were. criticizing him so he was very powerful. in San Francisco and that was actually. the reason he moved everybody to San. Francisco they went Indianapolis to. Yukaya California Northern California he. figured out that was like Hicksville USA. and he couldn't actually develop any. real power down there so he moved the. whole thing to San Francisco set up the. people's temple in San Francisco and. essentially had what was a um a um a. Pentecostal black. congregation that so emphasized civil.

rights that they were just um also. bringing in tons of liberal uh younger. middle class white people too who wanted. to support that cause who might have. never been in a Pentecostal service in. their life and all of a sudden they're. like singing and clapping and dancing so. he had all these different streams of. people that he was just bringing in. bringing in and eventually trapping in. his church the people people's Temple. yeah he's like I I love the Grateful.

Dead but I've never handled a. rattlesnake this is amazing. exactly uh so things are also you know. as this is going along things are just. becoming more and more culty it was sort. of a slow burn toward you know fully. fledged cult uh but by this time he was. you know right out of the Playbook he. was and we have a you know a lot of cult. uh content in our history one on Cults. one on deprogramming mhm uh I think we. cover some other Cults as well yeah we.

have surely but I can't bring it into. mind I mean Manson of course oh yeah but. he is uh right out of the cult leader. Playbook he's starting to isolate. members from friends and family he's. starting to say you know when you join. my church you got to turn over all your. possessions to us uh they ended up. having a lot of money I saw one point. toward the end they had like 11 million. bucks in a bank account yeah that's like. 197 8 money right yeah totally uh and he.

started you know doing that thing where. you're saying you know outside people. are going to want to uh pull you out of. here they're going to want you to defect. your family might even uh he would. spread lies about them he would say he's. getting prophecies that if you disobeyed. and tried to defect then you would. suffer some kind of tragedy so things. are getting more and more culty and. that's when like you. said that he started getting some press. coverage which I mean what's really like. one of the most astounding things about. all this is so many Cults you hear about.

after the fact but this was actively. going on and being reported on by the. Press like while it was happening yeah. because he was getting like wild and. bizarre and abusive enough toward his. congregation that he was there were. defectors there were people who were. like what the what is this I'm getting. out of here and they would go start to. talk publicly about this but yeah he had. enough clout to like get any real real. unfavor aable coverage or any widespread. unfavorable coverage stamped out but one.

of the things you mentioned that I think. um he really started to ratchet up. around this time was um isolating his. congregation by creating a US versus. them mentality yeah and creating a Siege. mentality among the people who were. members of The People's Temple. especially the hardest core members that. the the US government wanted them shut. down people were spreading lies about. them like if an article did get out he.

could point to how this is like lies and. propaganda against the people's Temple. and use it as evidence about how there. really was was a Siege and at some point. the people's temple in San Francisco. actually burned down I saw that they. think it was white supremacists Jim. Jones blamed it on the Nation of Islam. somebody burned the temple down and all. that did was feed that paranoid. sensibility that just isolated the. members of the the people's Temple even. further further and push them even. closer toward Jim Jones who just used.

stuff like that to his Advantage at. every turn yeah he was also uh like. things got a little more um violent and. militaristic uh you know he he got his. inner most Circle together and named. them the Planning Commission uh they. were his sort of internal security team. and things you know he would start. saying okay uh you congregants have to. have sex with each other you congregants. are getting married to one another uh.

there were starvation diets that was. forced to Labor uh sometimes if they you. know if a congregation member stepped. out of line they might be uh stripped. and marched around in front of the other. Temple members yeah so things are fullon. swinging cult at this point when he is. uh being written about in the press and. like you said getting most of it stamped. out uh but something happened in 1973. that like where the walls really started. to close in on them mhm and and that was. a uh I mean I guess sort of a sting.

operation he was bisexual uh that was. not out and in fact later on in like. sort of the the not the last days but. sort of while he was in G and living. there which we'll get to he he told all. the congregation you're all homosexual. and I'm the only heterosexual here uh so. he made a big deal about that but he was. definitely bisexual because he would uh. abuse both uh men and women within the.

temple uh some accusations that they. were underage of course and in late 1973. in December he was at a movie theater in. Los Angeles and an undercover cop uh I. read the police report apparently Jones. like signaled to him like hey meet me up. in the balcony and the cop instead went. to the bathroom and motioned for him to. come in there and when he got to the. bathroom uh Jim Jones pulled his pants. down and started to masturbate in front.

of him uh the cop left and had his uh. partner come in there and arrest him and. he got out of. it he apparently I didn't see this. anywhere but Ed said that he found that. um his defense was that he was jumping. up and down uh massaging his prostate. which was hurting him at the time yeah. it he had a doctor's letter dude I also. saw that he um he just he used his. political connections to get him out of.

it well it's hard to tell what happened. because the uh the judge and I don't. know this seems weird maybe that kind of. thing happened a lot though uh the judge. ordered the arrest records destroyed and. then the file was sealed so I don't. think a lot of people really know. exactly why he was released but he he. had a a doctor's note and the doctor. went to bat for him and said yeah I mean. this is what it might look like when. he's trying to to work up a urination in. the bathroom right just really just stay.

with me here it said in the note. right so that was a big Turning Point. like you said that was December of 1973. and um Jim Jones started to get the. message that his the direction he was. taking his congregation in was too. bizarre for San Francisco maybe even too. bizarre for the United States yeah and. he remembered um Guyana at the time and. um sent some people down there to start.

scouting out and setting up a a compound. a place I guess an additional place for. the people's Temple um outside of the. the oversight of the United States. government and the United States press. and all that um and while they were off. doing that there was there was something. he did back in San Francisco that was. enormously important um and I say maybe. we take a break and we'll come back and. talk about it oo our first Cliffhanger. of the year that's right we'll be right.

[Music]. back so um 1974 he's sent some people. down to Guana Guyana to start setting up.

a a new compound for the people's Temple. down there socialist country by the way. at the time yeah which makes sense. because by this time um Jim Jones has. been identifying himself to his. congregation as their socialist God over. time he slowly Stripped Away the concept. that that Jesus is God or that he was. Jesus and replaced himself to his. followers as God like they started. toward the end following him as God they. called him father they called him dad he.

was he was very much like their. religious figure on Earth way more than. just their Reverend or their Pastor or. even the head of their cult like he was. a supernatural religious figure in the. most Ardent of Believers eyes so look. like Elvis. exactly so um he tries something with. him that proved to be the the first of a. couple of attempts or a couple of. practice runs for what happened in.

Guyana in San Francisco at the people's. Temple um he handed out cups and he said. hey I know we all steer clear of alcohol. everybody but me um but our our one of. our Vineyards has produced a really. great wine and I want everybody to try. it so he passed out cups made sure. everybody tried the wine he circulated. among everyone as they were drinking it. and then after everyone had finished he. went back to the pull pit and he said. that was. poisoned you you're all going to die in.

about the next 10 minutes or something. we're all going to die together and he. he gauged their reaction and apparently. the reaction was a combination between. stunned silence and uh acquiescence like. okay that there wasn't people screaming. people weren't running for the doors. nobody tried to um beat him up or kill. him that was just he he he saw they they. would actually do this like I think if. if I actually asked them to do it and. didn't just trick them into it and he.

said I'm this is all just a test of your. loyalty you all passed way to go but. that was not the only time that he did. that to those poor. people yeah he started well let's back. up a sec cuz in 74 is when about 50. Temple members went to Guana to start. setting it up and they did that for. about 3 years and a magazine article. came out in New West magazine in 1977. that really exposed him MH for what he. was and he was like okay like The Jig Is.

up I have to get out of here now so he. moved uh with his family to Guana and. apparently the facilities could only. support about 200 people uh in May of 77. 600 more came and then the uing months. another 400 people came a lot of these. were kids uh a lot of these people were. elderly or infirmed and so there weren't. enough people there to work and sustain. it really uh they worked 12 hours a day. the people that could work it was brutal.

uh when they weren't working they were. listening to his sermons and his. lectures they were watching Russian. communist propaganda films and abuse. allegations started to come out and he. got super paranoid and that's when he. started leading more and more of those. dry runs he called them white Knights. where he would have these trial runs for. mass suicide uh sometimes they would. meet in the Pavilion and and his uh uh. his security team would like fire guns. from the jungle over their heads uh one.

of them lasted for six days it was. called The Six Day Siege and they were. just all these dry runs for killing. themselves and I think they just. routinely got used to it yeah but every. time it was just a test of their loyalty. it was a drill to practice for when the. United States military inevitably. invaded cuz that Siege mentality had. gotten even more paranoid apparently he. was just his rocker on speed um would. give hours and hours and hours long.

Marathon sermons into the night and you. mentioned that um that the bulk of the. building of Jonestown fell on the. shoulders of like a not like a minority. but far fewer people than there were to. support yeah and so those people were. working day at night and eating uh black. um black guy peas and rice. and. bananas and um kind of nice it is nice.

but if that's all you're eating and. you're working hard labor hours and. hours a day and then when you get off of. hard labor you go sit and listen to an. hours long sermon till 2: a.m. or 3:00. a.m. and then you have to get up at 5: or 6 the next morning and start all over. again even the people who who were at. Jonestown who weren't like I would kill. myself for Jim Jones Believers were too. tired and sleep deprived to give any. kind of problems to Jim Jones in the. direction he was taking everybody so.

that was actually like part of the the. plan apparently or at the very least it. was a happy byproduct for Jim Jones that. the people were either totally committed. to him or they were so overworked and. under uh um underslept that they just. couldn't put up any kind of protest yeah. for sure um so things are happening in. Guana at Jonestown uh finally all you. know press is still writing about this. stuff back in the States and in late.

1978 uh a California Congressman named. Leo Ryan who had been following the. story and this is one of the more. remarkable parts of this whole story a. congressman flew to Guana with a a small. group like some NBC camera people and. reporters and journalists and stuff on a. fact finding Mission they actually went. to the camp at Jonestown and met in the. Pavilion uh while they were there a. temple member named Vernon Gosney uh. passed a note to a reporter that was.

meant for Leo Ryan that said please help. me and my wife leave uh they got out of. there and took 15 Temple members that. were defecting with them and Jim Jones. is like they can go it's fine people are. free to go if they want to uh there was. some brief incident with Ryan where he. was held at knife point or there was an. attempted stabbing things got pretty. chaotic and they got the heck out of. there and went to this air strip while. they were waiting on their couple of. planes to get ready and the red Brigade.

which was the new name of his security. team by this point who were really. really militaristic this point showed up. at the Airfield and just opened fire on. them yeah and just to kind of rewind for. one second when when Leo Ryan showed up. he was showing up to investigate this. cult that he' heard nothing but bad. things about but his reception and like. the banquet that was thrown for him and. the music that was played in the the. services that he witnessed were so.

enthusiastic and uh upbeat that he. actually gave a speech to them saying. like it's very clear that for most of. you this is the greatest thing that's. ever happened to you and the place just. erupts and like cheers they've like won. this o this guy over like maybe they'll. be left alone from now on and it was. like a jubilant you can tell um. Congressman Ryan is like into it too. he's like this is great. um and it goes from that to all of a.

sudden the truth of the matter is just. kind of exposed like a a little rotten. core of an apple that you thought was. just totally bright and shiny and it. must have been stomach turning to have. your perceptions just turned on on end. like that when that note was handed to. that cameraman and Leo Ryan was like oh. these people are totally brainwashed and. I was almost duped and then it became. tense then was hell at knife point and. then he ended up dying on that on that.

air strip yeah actually we did one on. brainwashing too we totally did we also. did one on roundabouts people who like. roundabouts. right so remarkably part of this exist. on film uh the NBC camera person Bob. Brown was filming some b-roll there when. this shootout breaks out H and it wasn't. much uh because he actually was shot and. killed and his camera was shot up as as. well uh so she only had a few seconds of. this attack but uh Ryan was killed um.

that cameraman Bob Brown was killed NBC. reporter Don Harris was killed there was. a photographer from The Examiner in San. Francisco named Greg Robinson that was. killed and one of the defectors uh. Patricia Parks was killed and in the. second airplane this was a little Cessna. so there weren't even that many people. on it there was a Defector there that. was you know pretending to defect pulls. out a gun inside tiny plane and opens. fire somehow doesn't kill anyone he. wounds three of them and the people that.

survive like just you know booked it. into the jungle and it is uh I mean this. is the beginning of a very quick end. yeah two of the people who were attacked. on the airstrip survived by pretending. they were dead Jackie spear who was Leo. Ryan's assistant and Steve S who was a. sound guy I think for NBC they pretended. they were dead and I think Jackie spear. said she was shot Point Blank like they. came up to make sure she was dead and. didn't manage to kill her um the I read.

Chuck this is really important I read. that they laid there that Jackie spear. reported laying there for 22 hours. before help came okay so she's laying. there pretending she's dead on the. tarmac for 22 hours uh and just put that. in your in your um Bonnet and save it. for later yeah absolutely 22 hours after. the attack help finally came for Jackie. Spears yeah uh back at the temple um Jim. Jones he knows this is it like the the.

walls have fully closed in they've. committed multiple murders here and and. he knows there's no way out so he's like. the military is going to be coming for. us uh the US military uh revolutionary. suicide is the only way out and there is. a recording uh that's very disturbing I. mean big trigger warnings I'm not going. to get too involved in it uh it it's. called The Death tape but you can listen. to the Revolutionary suicide uh process.

unfold on this tape um did you listen to. it yeah I listened to the whole thing I. had to scrub through some of it because. it's really hard to listen to uh there. are Parts where people are are standing. up and and saying no this is not what we. want there are people that are just. unsure there are and this is very. triggering obviously but there were the. the sounds of uh children crying all. over the place in the background and a. woman saying uh they're not in pain it's.

just a a bitter taste in their mouth no. one's feeling any pain and it's just. incredibly disturbing and and remarkable. that this exists uh in the world then. that you can listen to this um but then. you know at like the 42-minute mark it. just goes quiet and It's haunting yeah I. think from what I understand it's really. easy to take it like that's the end of. jonest town but I believe what the death. tape um covers is the the beginning of.

the whole thing yeah the the killing of. the children that's why you're hearing. the children screaming they're dying. from having being forced to drink. Cyanide and um as they as it gets quiet. that's because the kids have died um. it's just as Eerie that doesn't make it. any less eerie but apparently after that. the tape Runs Out is when the adults. really started drinking because at the. end he's like bring in the bring in the. the vat with with the flavor Aid in it. um so that the adults can start drinking.

that's toward the end of the tape but. you mentioned somebody standing up a. woman named Christine Miller was the. sole person who challenged Jim Jones. directly she went to the mic and was. like isn't there isn't there any other. way like you told us Soviet Union would. take us is it too late for that um you. know as long I think she said as long as. there's life There's Hope like we we. shouldn't do this and then she also said. I think the children would want to live. they should be able to live and she.

ended up getting shouted down by other. other members but she tried really hard. and apparently she was one of the people. who was found at Jonestown later on uh. with a puncture Mark in her arm and that. she was probably killed that she was. murdered she didn't she didn't drink the. Kool-Aid or the flavor a herself she um. was probably injected with Cyanide and. that's almost certainly how she died but. she was extremely brave for trying to. save all those people and it was it was.

useless because Jim Jones knew there was. no other way out for him he was going to. kill himself and that he couldn't very. well leave these people alive without. him and he specifically says you're. you're going to do this you want to do. this there's no life without me and I'm. going to die so we all need to die. together and he's encouraging them. outright encouraging them Chuck on this. tape you can hear hear him how he gets. them to take their own lives and kill. their own children.

it's like that's it went from like Bleak. research to just like I can't believe. this actually happened like my brain. kept like repelling from wrapping itself. around it yeah it it was like I said I. couldn't even listen to it all the way. through I had to kind of just skip ahead. but um you did mention and this is you. know this is a fact that most people. know by now because uh usually that guy. at every party likes to point out that. it was not actually Kool-Aid uh drink.

the Kool-Aid has become a euphemism but. it was grape flavorade in fact and it. had a bunch of stuff in it it had one. two three four five six seven different. uh you know various sedatives and antis. psychotics and there was one malaria. medication in there for some reason I'm. not sure why uhum but cyanide was um. ultimately what you know did everyone in. uh and like you said said they killed. the children first by uh putting it in a.

syringe and and shooting it in their. mouth and then um other people took it. willingly and then like you said in the. case of Christine Miller that she was. injected um like other people were uh. obviously against her will and uh a lot. of people thought it was another white. knight rehearsal so they went along with. it maybe not knowing that they were. really going to die MH and in the end uh. 918 people died and Guana um 907 from. the poisoning uh then Annie Moore and.

Jim Jones uh either killed themselves. with their own gun or had uh one of the. red Brigade do it uh three I'm sorry 276. of these uh victims were kids and then. there were people that went out into the. jungle uh other people died later uh. there was this really sort of sad. bizarre story of uh this woman named. Sharon Amos who was a temple member who. was in Georgetown uh Guana who got the.

message that you need to kill yourself. and so she killed her two young kids and. then her third her 21-year-old daughter. uh Leanne Harris apparently they uh. looked at each other and either slit. each other's throats or their own. throats uh there were two other people. in the bathroom a 10-year-old named. Stephanie Brown and a 43-year-old man. named Charles uh beakman uh he was. charged with her attempted murder. because he cut her but he told her hey I.

have to apparently he was trying to help. her live and he said I have to cut you. to make it look. real uh and he got off on five years. because she corroborated that story in. court so he didn't you know get a a full. conviction yeah there's a lot of really. weird bizarre stories about you know. what people did when faced with this you. know yeah um one of the things from that. tape more more thing about the tape that. really got me was there somebody like. people were testifying people were.

coming up and and getting the mic and. thanking dad thanking Jim Jones for one. guy goes thank you you know Dad for. giving me life and then you know as an. afterthought he's like and and death. like they were thanking him for this. right so um one person came up to the. mic and said all you people along the. wall crying over there this is not a. time to be sad this is this is something. to be happy for and the fact that there. were were people crying along the wall. um to me those were the people who who.

knew they didn't have any way out not. because you know the US military was. coming to kill everyone and torture the. children but because they the Jim. Jones's people were not going to let. them leave it was either try to get away. and be killed shot or drink the Kool-Aid. yourself and be part of the. Revolutionary suicide and they were. scared to death they didn't want to die. they were literally grieving their own. death. right before they died and that was the. choice like you you couldn't you weren't.

allowed to leave you had to drink the. the flavorade but a couple people did. get away uh these survivors who. literally escaped the tent that the. people were were killing themselves in. and got away and and snuck off into the. jungle uh and those people are like. really important sources of information. for what happened because they saw. people dying they they didn't leave. right before they left like during this. whole thing at the height of it um and. they came back and they did all sorts of.

terrible things they had to um identify. bodies they had to um they had to. explain what was going on they they one. guy is uh named Charles Clayton he was a. a really uh important source for a lot. of the documentaries you'll see um He. Slipped Away and and got away unnoticed. um and that whole identifying the bodies. thing I know I sound like I'm rambling. but. there's just so much to talk about but. we probably should should go to that. part about the aftermath because I.

mentioned that um Jackie Spears was. alone on the air strip a couple miles. away from Jonestown for 22 hours and. they the people of Jonestown killed. themselves uh within an hour and a half. maybe two hours of um the assassination. of Leo Ryan and those people so that. meant that that it was just as totally. quiet Eerie Village of the Dead for a.

good 20 hours before any Outsiders came. in and saw what had. happened terrible can you. imagine it was horrifying. yeah still. is so um one one more kind of like. little add-on that was the worst. civilian casualty um of American. civilians uh in history and it's. remained that way until 911 um but the.

the First Responders who came Who had. who were responsible for getting these. Americans their bodies back home so that. their families could claim them um over. the course of like a terrible week in. the heat in the storms and all that they. um were largely from the Air Force and. the Air Force conducted a study on how. that experience impacted them and it. turned out to be the first study of how. something like that how First Responders. are affected by the things they see and. have to do from you know mass casualty.

events in history and it really kind of. created that whole um field of study. essentially oh wow yeah something else. um you got anything else uh yeah there's. one more odd little fact that you dug up. that is fairly remarkable uh because the. Congress person Ryan who was sadly. killed that day didn't his daughter end. up in a cult not just a cult the cult.

that was featured in wild wild country. that Netflix documentary she was a. member of that cult and ended up being. married by that Guru in The Ranch in. Oregon a couple years after her father. died and they actually had a bottle of. champagne that said the guru I can't. remember the guru's name can turn even. grape Kool-Aid into into wine wow so. they even made a joke about it at the. wedding yeah it's nuts man I just. thought that I couldn't believe it yeah.

that's a that's a fantastic nugget to. end on thanks a lot wellon Chuck said. that was a fantastic nugget of course. everybody that means it's time for. listener. mail all right this is about the. Christian heavy metal band striper of. course what a better way to finish out. this episode uh Hey guys grew up in the. middle of the Canadian prairies in the. 70s and ' 80s and was 14 when stripers. soldiers under command came out and 15. when to hell with the devil hit me like. a ton of bricks uh on this rock was.

built much of who I still am I learned. how to play drums along with Robert. sweet but unlike Chuck never had the. opportunity to see them live as they. rarely played Canada uh they broke up in. the early '90s and uh that I thought was. that even though they got back together. in 2005 I never managed to catch them. live the few times they snuck across the. border uh until that is this summer when. I was down in Vancouver visiting the. in-laws and they were playing Seattle. and I drove the 3 hours to see them uh.

it was an amazing show they're no longer. playing the Giant stadiums of course but. I don't know if they ever play Giant. stadiums uh but being able to stand 10. ft from guitarist Oz Fox who can still. shred after all these years was an. amazing experience they still got all. the hair and vocalist Michael S can. still hit those high notes though not as. many as he used to but after 40 years. they are very very good at making music. awesome uh they're they're doing an. acoustic tour uh this year 2024 called.

to hell with the. amps uh and they're kicking off uh. kicking it off down in Georgia playing. uh madlife and Woodstock I haven't heard. of that menu uh and this is May 30th and. I bet chuck would have a hell of a time. who knows they might even play a couple. of songs he recognizes that is from. Trent you going to go and I don't know. only if you go with me oh boy I wasn't. expecting that we'll see we'll talk. about it offline so no we're not going.

that was Trent huh that's Trent thanks a. lot Trent that was a great email. appreciate the update on striper uh and. if you have one on the guy who did Life. as a highway who turns out to be Tom. Cochran uh I don't remember if you said. that in the episode or not we would. appreciate that right I would if you. want to be like Trent you can get in. touch with us at stuff podcast at. iheartradio.com. [Music].

stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite. [Music]. shows.