Jane Goodall: All Good | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too and this is stuff you should know. the. podcast how you doing I'm good I'm good. you I'm shy oh are you yeah I'm a little. beat myself is it just life or did you.

stay up till 5:00 a.m. drinking no it's. just hitting right right around the old. nap time so you know I'm with you do you. ever do off while you're. studying uh no but I you know I still. try and catch a short nap every day and. on recording days that uh sometimes. happens but today was I was not able to. gotcha well we'll retire eventually just. hang in there I'll sleep when I retire. hey so what do you want to talk about.

today uh I mean I prepped for a show on. Jane Goodall so did. I and she's the best she is she is she. is widely roundly basically globally. universally probably seen as essentially. a great person yeah I I think she's. cherished and for good reason after uh. did you watch the documentary for this. at all by the way no I didn't the the.

future one from 2017 Jane yeah yeah no I. didn't it's great it sounds great I read. a lot about it as I do but uh I haven't. seen it yet I'll have to watch it still. yeah it's really good highly recommended. uh if you're listening and if this um. hearing about her you know inspires you. to learn more at all because it's a. great documentary of uh footage. beautiful beautiful color film stock.

from back then when she was uh doing her. studies and it's not uh it's not like. narrate it's narrated just by her. thoughts and this beautiful score and it. just shows it it's just really really. lovely the way it plays out that's. awesome I heard the car chase in the. middle is really great. too didn't expect it but very good so um. drive drive drive yeah um so we're. talking Jane Goodall for those of you. who don't know who J good all is she is.

one of the um world's foremost renowned. um primatologists MH and she did it the. oldfashioned way by going out into the. jungle and learning as she did it's. called the School of Hard Knocks I think. yeah that's the thing about Jane Goodall. she had a high school education uh when. she started um she did not go to college. not for a while um and a guy named LS. leaky a famous Anthropologist took a. gamble on on purpose because he was.

looking for somebody who could um not. who was not trained purposely not. trained so that they weren't bringing a. bunch of preconceptions to them to study. chimpanzees and Jane Goodall fit the. bill as we'll see she's loved animals. since she was a kid and after just a few. months started excelling at it and. eventually changed how the world sees. chimpanzees we didn't know much about. him before we had a lot of assumptions. about him and Jin Goodall showed that. they were just just let's just turn.

those on on their heads yeah how's that. for an intro baby it's pretty good thank. you do we I mean do we get more specific. even Oh I thought we'd get specific as. we went along but sure go ahead yeah so. she was born in 1934 in England uh to. her mother Margaret and her father. Mortimer uh go ahead and forget I even. said father Mortimer because he was not. around uh much and he does figure much.

in her story he divorced when Jane was. but 16 um but especially after watching. this documentary uh if we're going to. salute Jane Goodall we are going to have. to salute her mother because her mom was. the one who was like hey you want to. figure something out then go figure it. out and go learn it and go do instead of. talking about something go out and do it. because no one else is going to do it. yeah unless you do it and who cares that.

it's uh the the 1940s and 50s um who. cares that you're a young girl uh just. go out and do it Jane by God and she did. yeah she very famously encouraged her to. go dance on the rain feel the rain in. her skin because no one else will do it. for. you that's right and like you said um. and this is what maybe set her apart. from other scientists at the time um she. Lov loved loved and loves animals like.

capital l o v e and that sort of flew in. the face of the. dispassionate um history of how you. study animals yeah biologists typically. approached animals totally detached. totally unemotional they were aw. supposed. to that was how they were trained to and. it makes sense in a way because this is. there was a widespread fear and the.

still is um among you know hardcore. biologists and and other ologists that. study. animals that we humans have a just a. great propensity for anthropomorphizing. animals and how can you study animals if. you're just essentially presuming that. they're behaving like humans you can't. if they're doing something that's. actually not human-like and you're just. misinterpreting it you're being misled. by your anthropomorphism so there was a. real um there was a the the workaround.

that they figured out was to just look. at them dis passionately they're just. animals I don't care what their names. are I don't care anything about them I'm. just going to study them as. dispassionately as possible in the hopes. of preventing from anthropomorphizing. that was the predominant View and again. it still kind of is it's complete. hogwash um the idea that that there's. just no inner lives to animals and. apparently there's still some academics. that cling on to that.

but um it does make a little bit of. sense where if you're worried about. projecting your own feelings and values. and emotions and thoughts onto the. animals you're studying then just don't. get attached to the animals and that's. what she entered into you know what you. said what that they don't care what. their names. are well I'm sure they have names like. ragnor the Conqueror is probably a. pretty regular name for a cow I would. think so uh but right uh but she flew in.

the face of that she loved animals as a. child um she would just spend hours and. hours and hours as a young girl um. drawing animals talking about animals. writing about animals and not just you. know birds are fun because they fly like. observing them like a little miniature. scientist so she had um Recollections. about bringing worms to bed when she was. a toddler a toddler like one of her. first memories um another was when and. she uh went to watch a hen laying an egg.

and like document that whole process. spent 5 hours in a hen house as a young. girl and her parents couldn't find her. and her mom you know called the cops. they thought she had wandered off yeah. and I saw very pivotally when she was. younger I'm not sure what age but she. was a young kid still she was fascinated. with the pigs that she saw in the. English Countryside and she wanted to. hang out with them but they would always. run away so she taught herself to super.

patient and to sit and get them to come. closer to her and eventually feed them. and won their trust that way and that. would later serve her very well um when. she started to study. chimpanzees yeah and in fact that. patience in the documentary you know you. mentioned Lewis leaky uh he was a very. famous paleontologist and Anthropologist. who gave her her break uh in the 1950s. when she met him in Kenya I guess we. should say she got there because she.

graduated from high school and it's like. you know what I'm not gonna we can't. afford College I'm going to go get a. couple of jobs hustle save money so I. can go to Africa and study on my own um. but she got there and leaky uh she said. part of the reason she got the job was. because he wanted someone with. Monumental. patience I.E somebody who would sit. there for what ended up being five. months before she even saw chimpanzees. basically man that guy would be like a. senior VP at zip recruiter just based on.

that one pick he made yeah if you were. around. today did you like that that was a a. little Buzz Marketing for one of our. advertisers they haven't been around in. a while so maybe they'll come. back um so uh yeah Lewis leaky. apparently she started out as a. secretary for him right yeah and then I. guess he found out that she wanted to do. animal studies and he said okay here's. your chance I'm gonna send you to. Tanzania to study chimpanzees we don't.

know much about chimpanzees we want you. to go find out all about them and so at. age 26 in 1960 she arrived in Tanzania. with her mom because the Tanzanian. government I believe it was still a. colonial government at the time um if. not then at least a transitional. government still they required a. chaperon um for someone in her position. so she brought her mom along who'd been. a great supporter and booster all her. life like you said and they also very. important they had an a cook who was a.

local named Dominic and um within a very. short amount of time both uh her mom and. she came down with malaria and they were. very fortunate to have Dominic from what. I saw because he helped nurse them back. to health yeah for sure he was a big uh. it's kind of like part of the family. from what I gathered that's what I. gathered too uh this is at the gambi. stream game reserve which is now the. gambi stream National Park ni and her. mom didn't stay too long she was there.

about four months but uh while her mom. was there she helped set up a uh either. set up or work with a medical Camp there. um to help provide you know Medical. Services to to locals so her mom was. getting in there getting her hands dirty. yeah um eventually would leave to go. back to England and Jane stayed there um. you know she uh she was not with leaky. he he didn't like stay there with her he. set her up with his job MH also. apparently uh was you know making passes.

at her cuz uh Jane Goodall and this kind. of popped up throughout her career was a. a very pretty young scientist at a time. when that was fairly unusual I think. especially where she was located and she. was like no thank you uh Dr Ley I'm not. interested uh but I appreciate you you. you know give trust entrusting this. position to me at least but hands off he. said that's what that's just what I. wanted to hear yeah yeah I'm sure he. wanted to hear just that. so apparently she got set up with six.

months of funding initially and she. started to get really worried because at. least three months passed and she was. spending all day every day um with a. couple of locals who were walking her. around the jungle looking like pointing. out like this would probably be a pretty. good place for chimps to show up this. tree has a bunch of fruit on it they'd. sit around the chimps wouldn't show up. they did show up um they were covered up. by leaves she couldn't see what they. were doing uh if she got if she moved to. get a little closer so she could get a. better view they would all run away that.

was when she saw them like she was her. research was in great Jeopardy she was. you have to have chimps to study to get. more funding and continue your research. so she was starting to get worried by. month three or four and um I guess. finally she she won the the trust of at. least one group enough that they. wouldn't run off when she would just. kind of show up and hang out and feed or. watch them feed and I saw that one of.

the reasons or one of the ways that she. won the trust of the chimpanzee groups. that she was observing was by kind of. behaving like them like she ran around. Barefoot everywhere she would hang out. in the trees for long periods of time. and just kind of tried to treat them or. behave as if they were her peers rather. than study subjects or test subjects. yeah I mean she um there was one at one. point in the documentary she was talking. about the dangers of where she was and. these poisonous snakes everywhere and.

you know all all manner of ways in which. you could die out there doing what she. was doing and she was and it didn't. sound naive either she just said you. know I felt like I was and she's got. that Great British accent too so it just. everything sounds so great but she said. she felt like she was supposed to be. there and that if she just treaded. carefully and and respected the land and. the creatures around her then they would. like allow her to stay there like these. snakes were not going to come bite her.

and send her away because she's like I. was I'm supposed to be here and it was. really kind of a lovely thing she really. seemed like she fit in such that finally. five months in with time running out a. chimp named David. greybeard uh obviously she's giving them. these names and he had a kind of look. like me a little bit he had this little. Gray beard trusted her he was the first. one of that group allowed her to get. closer and closer and closer he. eventually stole some bananas came back.

for more bananas and he was the one that. said to the other chimps hey this lady. she's not too bad look look at her she's. over there in a tree bananas she's. hanging out and the footage of her and. we'll get to whether or not this was the. correct thing or not later but the. footage of her dead still holding. bananas out in her hand and seeing these. very large chimpanzees coming up and. taking them from her hands and the way. she's acting. is is breathtaking because nobody had.

done that before yeah I was going to say. today you could see somebody doing that. and the reason why you could see someone. doing that is because Jane Goodall was. the first to do it exactly so she had no. idea she had no frame of reference for. whether they were going to be violent. toward her or whether they were going to. throw their poop at her or whatever she. had no idea so that was a real risk that. she was taking by interacting with them. that directly and then in addition to it. being risky. um it was driving any academic who was.

aware of her work completely baddy. bananas because that is nice man um. that's not at all what you do not only. do you not like get attached to them you. certainly don't feed them you don't. interact with their infants you don't um. you don't give them names that was. another one David greybeard yes I'm. going to go with you and assume that. that wasn't his actual name that she. gave him that name and that was driving. like academics crazy like she was doing.

everything wrong and yet it was starting. to really pay off in. Aces yeah they're like you're not. supposed to name chimps and she's like. have you ever petted a chimp. chump right it's like it's working yeah. it really and it really did work like. thanks largely thanks to David greybeard. at least at first who who like you said. said this lady's all right um and then. her patience and then her feeding them. endless supply bananas all those three.

combined to win over the trust of large. groups and families of of. chimpanzees should we take a break I. think we should all right we'll be right. back with more on do you know who right. after this. [Music]. [Music].

okay Chuck so um Jane Goodall is feeding. chimp's bananas at this point she's. named them names all of them um I mean. she really kind of had to get very. creative with the names because she. would identify a family lineage by um. like a letter so like the F family all. of the members for Generations all had.

first names that began with f like Flo. or flossy or Fabian or Freud um and. that's how she kept track of them but. again other academics would would have. just given them numbers like maybe they. all started with the same number or. something like that but certainly not. names um and from observing them that. closely and I guess. um I guess interacting with them. probably had a lot to do with it but. interacting with them allowed her to get. that close and by interacting that.

closely she was able to see things that. up to that point people had no idea. chimpanzees were capable of one of the. first things she realized is that they. have a huge uh intricate complex social. system with hierarchies like I said. families alliances territories like all. sorts of stuff that people just did not. realize chimps were capable of engaging. in yeah big time uh communication wise. uh she found out there were at least 20. different sounds that they were making.

to communicate and that's in addition to. any kind of body language or behaviors. they may exhibit toward one another uh. she was the first person that said hey. these these guys aren't just eating. bananas and berries and things they are. omnivores they're eating birds they're. eating insects they're eating baby. baboons um sometimes she would figure. this out later uh much to her dismay. they would eat other chimps uh but the. the big finding that she came out with. that kind of shook signs to its core was.

that she observed chimpanzees engaging. in object modification which is. basically sort of Proto tool making when. they would take Blades of grass and. sticks and things and strip them down or. bend them or Clump Blades of grass. together and shape them in certain ways. to stick into ant hills most effectively. and efficiently to draw out ants eat. them and she was like hey wait a minute.

like the big differentiator up until. this point and uh the history of. evolution between us and them is that we. use tools that's all everyone talked. about was that we use tools and animals. don't and that's what makes us different. and she's like right here in front of my. face they are using object modification. which is basically a tool yeah like you. you just you said it it shook the. scientific world to its foundations like. that was uh just such a huge finding.

that Lewis leaky declared very famously. that uh we must redefine tool redefine. man or except chimpanzees as humans like. that's how big of a deal it was because. it was but I mean up to that point like. like like you said people just tools. made a human anything that could make a. tool technically qualified as a human. everything else couldn't make tool so it. was a big deal and then on top of that. to me even more groundbreaking is that. they realized that different groups of.

chimps use the same tool in different. ways and that like say one one group. would use the short stick to get. termites on it um to eat them one by one. another group would use a longer stick. to let a bunch of them walk on and then. eat it like a corn cob probably um and. that they would pass how to do that down. to different generations and that's. culture at its most basic definition. that qualifies as culture and I saw it.

um compared to how um westerners use. forks but people in Asia use chopsticks. they they're both the same tool they're. used to either an Implement to get food. to your mouth but they're just different. and they're passed down through the. culture they're cultural differences and. that's the same thing with the the. different ways of using a termite stick. right and that is culture so she. discovered that chimps have cultures as. well and some of them open their. presents on Christmas Eve so of them. waited till Christmas morning mhm there.

were all kinds of things she observed. yeah that was a big surprise too they're. terrible at wrapping presents too. they're so sloppy another big surprise. well they just used the funny papers. from Sunday which can you blame them uh. another big surprise was in 1962 when. National Geographic uh the Nat Geo. society that is sent a filmmaker uh a. Dutch filmmaker named Hugo Von lawick. there to film her work uh she was not. thrilled at this idea she really enjoyed.

her Solitude there she did not want some. dude mucking up the works and kind of. quite honestly spoiling her scene that. she had going on there she really. enjoyed climbing trees and being alone. and not having to deal with some uh some. jerk with a camera but she knew that's. where the funding came from they needed. this footage if she was going to. continue to get funding uh she put up. with this guy chain smoking and throwing. his cigarette butts around in The Jungle.

which upset her very much uh but she was. like this guy really loved animals he. was also handsome and she said it became. pretty obvious pretty soon that I was uh. also the subject of his films long story. short they fall in love and make a baby. right that they nicknamed grub did you. see anywhere why they nicknamed their. kid grub I could not find it I would. assume because of a. grubworm but what did he do like did he. was is he famous for writhing around on.

the on in the dirt or something like. that why would you name your kid grub. well I mean this kid was raised in the. jungle I imagine all he did was ride. around in the. dirt okay I mean there's footage of him. he's he was literally raised in a jungle. in a. cage sounds bad but it was a big pen. that they had previously used for. animals and she decorated it all up for. for her son just to keep him safe it was. very large it was like a large you know. pin uh than than a cage but technically.

it was a. cage and the other thing she said too. was um that having a her own human baby. really helped her research it it made. her understand the um how chimpanze. mothers behaved and vice versa uh and. she said it really just added a lot to. her her understanding of the the family. groups neat that's pretty neat um so. around this time so what that was the.

early 60s I think that uh her husband. showed up and her son was born in the. late 60s 1967 okay in the I think in. 1963 National Geographic essentially. told the world that Jane Goodall existed. and what she was doing there was a um an. article cover article called my life. among the wild chimpanzees and she was. starting to recount this is the thing. that she would become um most advanced. at in addition to chimpanze studies is.

telling the rest of the world about. chimpanzees in order to um get the world. to keep from driving chimpanzees and. other animals into Extinction that was. her kind of second love yeah for sure uh. and again they started you know her the. fact that she was a an attractive young. woman came up in the press and the. Articles were framed as you know Beauty. and the Beast uh and Nat Geo Covergirl. and stuff like that which it bothered. her some but um she did realize that.

that got more attention and that that. inspired uh young women be you know to. develop interests in science and stuff. like that and so she was like it's it's. fine this is what we're dealing with. here in the. 1960s and it's bringing you know. attention to my cause right yeah she. would have a really good um kind of a. feel for that and I I keep speaking of. her in the past T she's not dead she. just turned 90 in April and she seems to. doing just fine her foundation says she.

still travels about 300 days a year. doing speaking appearances on behalf of. chimpanzees and nature and Earth in. general u a good a good example of her. kind of figuring out or knowing a good. PR um piece when she sees it or. opportunity when she sees it came in. 1987 um Gary Larson who did The Far Side. um one of the great comic strips of all. time you you know oh yeah they're. they're that's going to be a subject.

soon okay so he did a fars side um one. one comic panel or one panel comic of a. a female chimp grooming a male chimp and. the caption is the female chimp saying. well well another blonde hair conducting. a little more research with that Jane. Goodall and the Jane Goodall. Institute found out about this and sent. Gary Larson a cease and desist letter. and that's where everything ended right. no no no of course not you're just being.

koi uh Goodall was out of town. apparently she got back in town heard. about it thought it was very funny said. uh Gary you can tear up that CE and. desist letter uh and book your ticket. for. Africa you're going and you're going and. you're going and that's what happened uh. she reached out to him he uh they they. he he came out there um he actually gave.

the Institute permission to use the. cartoon on t-shirts for fundraising she. wrote a preface for one of his uh book. collections and it turned into like this. cool friendship yeah so um prior to that. we kind of jumped ahead a little bit but. prior to that um she in addition to that. National Geographic cover story um less. than 10 years later um she released her. first book in the shadow of man and this. is around where she really became like a. science Communicator which she's been. forever she was one of the early ones.

PRI Sean even I mean she released this. book in 1971 and was telling the world. again about all of the stuff she had. found um about chimpanzees and really. just revolutionizing our understanding. of chimpanzees and animals in general. and her work was so significant that. remember she only graduated high school. um Cambridge University came a knocking. and said hey you want a PhD cuz we got a. seat for you here come take it and she. thought about it a while consulted Gary.

Larson he said hey I haven't met you yet. this doesn't make any sense and uh. finally agreed sure I'll get your I'll. take a PhD course with you guys. Cambridge that's right she got a degree. in the study of animal behavior that's. ethology in. 1966 I know we're all over the place. with the timeline it's. fine hope everyone gets is following the. story sure uh for about five years she. worked at St for as a visiting professor. in Psychiatry uh also became a visiting.

professor of zoology at tanzania's. University of uh Daris Salam um while. all this is going on though she's not. like oh by the way I'm just leaving. gambi for years and years at a time um. she was basically there from 1960 to 75. it was her it was her home it was her. emotional home her spiritual home she. felt very very tied uh to gambi and to. that specific area and um you know that.

was where she started a family and was. Raising a Son it was it was her place so. I didn't see the documentary did they. cover why she left was it because of her. son because I saw that she was. conflicted and um realized she had to. decide raise a son or study chimps yeah. he had to be schooled formerly schooled. in England uh but also there was the. issue of her marriage and that's you. know we might as well talk about it now. um she started travel some with uh with. her husband to other places for him to.

film cuz he didn't get all his work. through net Geo eventually he his work. with them completely dried up so he had. no reason to be there other than the. fact that his wife was there and loved. her work but it was at a time and he was. one of these guys where he was like Hey. you know work comes first and I hope you. can support me she did that for a little. while and then she said by that time in. a in a very English way she said uh they. had we had begun bickering. and that seemed to be the kindest way to.

say that you know their marriage was. kind of uh on fragile ground and uh they. would eventually part ways because of. that and because of life and work and it. just seemed like it didn't work out. gotcha um so five years after she. started she established the gambi stream. Research Center again in the um gambi uh. Wildlife Preserve Game Preserve which. means you can go hunt there um she very. fortunately met met and married a member. of parliament in Tanzania named Derek.

Bryson uh and he happened to direct the. country's national parks and went Presto. Cheno and turned the game reserve into a. national park protecting gambi and its. inhabitants pretty cool it is pretty. cool unfortunately he passed away from. cancer five years later um and from that. point on Jane Goodall was uh swinging. solo. lady that's right and you know uh. I'm sure it was a tragedy for her life.

but um she sort of ended up being. married to her work and seemed very. happy to be um she spent decades and. decades at the gambi center um. publishing hundreds of papers uh all. kinds of um uh researchers and doctoral. students have done field workor there. gotten their phds through there um she. is still very active like you said as. part of the Jane Goodall Institute which. is basically uh run by. tanzanians and has just um you know.

she's it's easy to think now like you. said like you see so many documentaries. and so much footage of people doing. research and uh just no one had done. this stuff to that degree at the time as. far as just living among the animals and. it it's just it can't be overstated how. revolutionary this idea was this. 26-year-old you know young British woman. was just like yeah that's what I want to. do I want to climb a tree and be with.

them yeah and LS leaky um had a knack. for picking the right people for this. kind of work um he also hired two other. young women over the years Diane FY who. studied gorillas in Rwanda um who is. very memorably played by sigy Weaver and. gorillas in the midst yeah and another. woman named barut Galas who studied. orangutangs in Borneo and when you put. Diane FY and barut galdikas and Jane. Goodall together you had the group that. were known as the.

trimates pretty funny we just couldn't. not mention that it was just too great I. mean we didn't give him that name no no. no we were I just want to make that. clear yeah so Chuck we starting to have. a little too much fun I say we need to. take a break and re compose ourselves. come back and just get serious again all. right. [Music].

all right so uh earlier in the episode. you mentioned a family made up of the. letter F right uh where she you know. this is how she named and cataloged.

these groups and these families and it. would help her keep track of things and. we're going to tell you a little story. that Livia dug up about the F family um. led by Flo who was the mama to her young. children and uh Flo was pretty. instrumental in in Goodall's um. understanding of just how these chimp. families worked and then later through. the just beyond the family the whole. group and local culture of the that. family right and the whole group that.

they studied um that the the Flo and her. family were members of was the caka and. there were other groups that ended up. being studied uh if not by Goodall but. by other uh research scientists and. doctoral students who showed up over the. decades but kesa um was the group that. that she kind of made her name on and um. did her research on originally and like. you said um from studying these these. familyes so closely she watched like how.

Generations interacted sometimes with. their own kin group um like uh Flo had. um a son named Fabian who overthrew his. younger brother who's overthrown by his. younger brother Fegan to become the. dominant male and she noticed like. becoming a dominant male of your family. of your group I should say um there's. not one set way to do it some do it by. some chimpanzees do it by um being kind. and calm in the face of aggression.

others do it through sheer force and. bullying Fegan um was known to just. basically do it through trickery like he. would lead others in the group away from. food and then run back and get it. himself somehow he became the dominant. male but by studying these these. chimpanzees this closely she was able to. kind of see individual personalities and. how those personalities work together to. create a societ. yeah and it's you know it's like Game of.

Thrones up in there basically yeah uh. you had Flo's daughter Fifi she became. the dominant female she gave birth to. nine kids one of which was a daughter. named flossy so this is Flo's. grandbaby uh flossy ended up leaving. that group for a neighboring Community. uh called the M uh matuma Community. another one of her children was Freud uh. born in 71 Freud grew up and then along. with Fifi and Fegan um helped him rise.

within that hierarchy uh even though he. was like not really cut out for the job. became the dominant male in 1993 so like. families are leaving communities joining. up with others who had previously left. the community they're kind of grooming. successors and and like propping up. other chimps as like um helping them. become the leader and the dominant uh. male or female and it's just it's just. fascinating for her to sit there like. document all this stuff yeah it's very. mchy of Alan totally now we have to talk.

about Frodo who was one of fif's sons. one of Flo's grandsons he was born in. 1976 and he is one of the more famous um. chimpanzees of all time because he was. bad to the bone yeah um he was if you if. you believe in chimps having an internal. life and empathy and awareness of others. experience es then you would consider. froto a murderer straight up murderer.

totally but for real I've seen it argue. that that he should be considered a. murderer he was just that bad yeah I. mean he killed people he did so he. deposed his brother Freud back in. 1997 and he was one of he was the one I. was citing when I said you some some of. them do it just through sheer force and. intimidation that was Frodo he didn't. have a lot of friends he didn't have. many alliances he was just the biggest. champ and the meanest chimp and he um he.

from a young age he started bullying. Jane Goodall I think I don't want to. anthropomorphic here but I'm quite. certain 100% certain in fact that he. noted Jane Goodall was the person in. charge of the humans and he targeted her. specifically he attacked other humans. over the years um but Jane Goodall they. said that he would have a certain look. on his face that he reserved just for. her and he came he put her in for some. of the worst treatment he um almost.

broke her neck once and she said um kind. of famously that she was alive because. he wasn't trying to kill her that he was. just trying to show her who his boss um. and that if he wanted her dead she would. be dead right now which you know again. not to use the a word but uh it sounds. like he had respect for her yeah yeah in. a way like a kind of a a a backhanded. way I would say he allowed her to live.

right I guess so or maybe he needed her. he let Gary Larson live in 1988 when. Gary Larson got his arm. yanked uh giving him a legit injury so. that happened as well uh but very sadly. um Frodo was probably most well known uh. for killing a toddler a 14-month-old in. 2002 it was the daughter of a park. attendant who was visiting with his wife. and he he killed this 14-month-old and. partially ate this 14-month-old.

and people spoke up and were like hey. you need to kill this chimp and take him. out and Jane Goodall went to bad for him. and it's like basically it's a chimp. being a chimp and we're the ones that. are here and you know there's cars. killing kids all over the place you know. go out and take all the cars away that's. called a straw man argument it is there. there's a thing though one the remember. I said I saw it argued that like he was. a froo should be considered a murderer. certainly could be yeah I think the same.

person who made that argument was uh had. been a researcher at gambi um and argued. like yes we need to kill Frodo he's a. murderer like he did that he knew what. he was doing he's a murderer we need to. put him down and um she argued that they. intervened when The Chimps were starving. they intervened when they needed medical. attention but they're not going to. intervene when the a chimp murders a. human baby um it just seemed like a. pretty good argument I think um at the.

same time though if you're Jane Goodall. and you're like well chimps are kind of. like humans and humans are kind of like. chimps we don't kill froto when he eats. chimp babies which they do um so why. would you do that for a human baby seems. a little out of touch to me with you. know Human Society in general but I. guess I get both sides in that case yeah. I mean that's one of the things we. should talk about I guess is that later. in her career she um. you know she basically said hey uh if I.

had it to do over again I would do it. differently we probably should not have. been feeding these things bananas uh we. probably shouldn't have been I shouldn't. have been holding baby chimps like they. were human babies and petting them and. stuff uh and I should have maybe been a. little more dispassionate in my work uh. because if you want you know really. accurate uh data and results like again. you shouldn't be handing them food and. stuff so you know she she came clean. about the things that she felt like she. had her missteps over the years as a. researcher M so I take my hat off to her.

for that um and very sadly it looks like. you know it's possible at least that. their stay there their interactions. their just merely being there could have. been one of the factors in what was. known as the gambi chimpanzee War right. when in. 1971 there was there was kind of a a a. fullon war between two groups of. chimpanzees that played out right in. front of her eyes yeah so the dominant.

male of the um caka group died and I. guess he was holding the glue together. this guy was like Tito or something and. the group splintered I think nine adults. and their kids said we're going to form. our own group and they took over the. southern half of the range and the. original caka the remaining caka they. stuck to the northern part of the range. at first um I think over the years the. the Mal started making aggressive sounds. and gestures to one another um and it.

became clear that they were no longer. treating them as a a kin group you know. these were no longer friends even though. they had been super tight friends when. they lived together these were now. enemies and trespassers and encroachers. and the whole thing came to a head. starting in. 1974 when GOI um one of the uh members. of the tribe that had broken away and. took up in the South was just sitting. there eating fruit and and six Kessa. males ambushed him and he tried to get.

away and they got him and they beat him. to death over a period of I think about. 10 minutes and that kicked off the what. are known as like you said the gambi. chimpanzee War yeah and then uh other um. Wars had been documented since then uh. in different areas between different. groups and like I said you know part of. the reason was they were being sort of. choked out by human development uh part. of it was because there was a more. stressful atmosphere though right with.

people there watching and observing and. doing what she was doing so uh I I don't. I'm not going to say that really. tarnished her work uh if anything it did. show that um they observed something. else that they didn't know had. previously happen uh which is it could. be very Territorial and go to war like. this uh but since that time um she has. just been a tireless advocate for. Animals uh over the ensuing decades like. you said into her ear ear 90s now um. with the Jane Goodall Institute that is.

based in Virginia has 20 offices around. the world and she continues to write. books and speak and do TED talks and. she's just still kicking it yeah she had. a podcast called the Jane Goodall Hope. cast that she launched during the. pandemic and then as soon as she could. stop she stopped the last episode came. out in 2022 she's very famously her. quote was that sucked yeah. by the way when I said she's still. kicking it I meant kicking but like not.

just kicking it on the couch that's what. kicking it really mean kicking in Old. School yeah no she's just uh still very. active and uh I just have a lot of. respect for the lady she's awesome yeah. she is an awesome person um and yeah she. gets criticized by people in Academia. still but like I said at the outset. she's just the world loves her like. she's done so much good that whatever. missteps she has or whatever weird side. she takes in in um moral quandries like.

the world just forgives her it's like. it's Jane Goodall she does good for the. the planet and has the whole time. essentially agreed uh if you want to. know more about Jane Goodall there's a. lot to read about her and by her and you. can listen to her Hope cast I presume. they didn't erase all of the episodes um. and in the meantime while you're looking. all that stuff up we'll just go ahead. and kick it old school with listener. mail. I'm going to call this the ballot of.

grit cuz that is what Ed calls it okay. in the subject line hey guys uh I'm a. self-described man of GD I should say. I've never considered myself a. conscientious person to the full meaning. of the word however I do consider uh one. of my strengths is being responsible uh. my opinion is that it's an insult for a. gritty person to be confused with being. consci uh conscientious. conscientiousness is a luxury for the. already bright-minded person in my. opinion I believe most intelligent.

people who are successful are equally. gifted with conscientiousness a grit on. the other hand is the ugly twin of. conscientiousness it's the path L travel. to success it's how I got through. college to earn an engineering degree uh. even though I graduated with a low GPA. barely scraping by in many classes and. had to retake some cuz I didn't pass to. begin with uh my road was Less Traveled. and it was a tough one I worked 40 hours. a week for 5 years while I supported my. myself in college and uh I was compared. to my peer graduates with whom I lived.

at home with their parents who had the. funds to build proper projects for. courses uh grit is invisible guys it. can't be measured comes from within grit. is what you have when you succeed. without conscientiousness uh love the. show that is from Ed I think Ed is a. pseudonym for Angela Duckworth I think. this is Angela Duckworth writing. in it's good uh good email yeah that is. good email EG good for you for. persevering hats off to you man for sure.

I admire anybody who worked to put. themselves through college that's really. something oh like me yes I admire you. for. that uh the first part was paid for then. I was on my own hey man even a little. bit still counts like that's that's hard. to do you know that was fine waited. tables appre it all right just forget it. I'll direct my comments toward Ed only. then all right no I appreciate it I. appreciate it uh if you want to be like. Ed and give us an email to um argue over.

we love that kind of thing you can get. in touch with us via stuff podcast at. iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.