How the Kowloon Walled City Worked | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's. here as well, and this is Stuff You. Should Know. So, let's get started talking about some. stuff that you should know. And I guess. we should do our. semi-annual explanation, Chuck, that our. the title of our podcast is never. intended to make you feel bad because. you don't know something. It's not that.

we think you should know this already. We're saying we find this really. interesting, and we want to share it. with you. Hence, we want you to know. about it. We you should know about this. because it's interesting, and we want to. tell you about it, not that you should. already know about it. Yeah, I know. that's second one. We just did that in. listener mail like 2 weeks ago. I think. we should do it every week. I'm going to. start every podcast with that from now. on, okay? That that's a great way to. retain listeners, I think. >> For sure. Man, you should see the matcha I'm. drinking right now. It's like mash oat.

mash brown green. >> Ew. It's disgusting. I don't know what's. wrong with it, but I got to drink it. anyway. Oh, is it not taste good, either? Not really. It's pretty bitter. Maybe that matcha has turned, bro. Uh. but does it? It was powder. Does matcha. turn? Cuz if so, I'm drinking turned. matcha for sure. All right, well, we'll. do a short stuff. Can a powder turn? Has the powder turned? Uh but no, we're not going to do that. today cuz we're talking about the. Kowloon Walled City Mhm. in Hong Kong,

uh which is the most Well, at at one. time was the most densely populated. place on planet Earth. And just to give you, if you've ever. been to New York City, if you've ever traveled to the East. Village, Yeah. one of my favorite. villages, That's where I got engaged. Uh. yeah, right there at the. uh the museum. Which one? New Museum. >> New Museum, yeah. Not the Whitney. No. Um. that is the most uh and it doesn't feel. like it when you're there, but the East. Village is the most densely. um neighborhood in New York City.

And they have about 43,000 people living. in the East Village. Uh. the Kowloon Walled City is about the. size of the East Village. geographically, but there are 1. Yeah, that's why they use the East Village in. all the comps. Mhm. Uh 1.25 million. people living there as opposed to. 43,000. Okay, yes, exactly. But there were. really only 33,000 people, but if you. spread it all out over a square. kilometer, you would have that many. people to equal that density, right?

That's right. So, that's um I wanted to make sure to. take that and just screw it up. The reason I did that is because it's. not the same size. Kowloon Walled City. is like a fraction of the size of the. the square kilometer. Uh yeah, it's it's it's I think like a. little over three football fields. I saw that. Um I also saw four. I also. saw four rugby fields or large soccer. pitches. So, all those put together. Uh-huh. imagine 33,000 people standing.

on there. Like they'd literally have to. be standing on one another's shoulders. Who knows how many people deep it would. be. And so, this incredibly compact area. of a few football fields or rugby or. soccer pitches. um held buildings right up against each. other that went all the way up to 14. stories tall. And if you went into this. place, you would be like I I I this is. like nowhere I've ever been in the. world, and you would be right because.

there was nowhere in the world like the. Kowloon Walled City from about 1970 to. 1990-ish. Yeah, like if you have a. if you have a fairly smallish um. lot that your house is on. Let's say. have a single-family house, mhm, and. it's on like maybe a half an acre if. you're lucky. Like you're doing pretty. great. That's a great life. Yeah. This. is a little more than 6 and 1/2 acres. and there were 500 buildings packed in. there. Ain't nuts? Like even with those mind-blowing stats,

it's like. go and look there's a very famous. photograph from I think a 1989 or 1990. National Geographic overhead. that just gets. gets it all across perfectly. Um it you. just look at it and you're like that. that doesn't even look like. a village or city. It looks like a a. single thing and a lot of people have. made that point that these buildings. were so close together, they were so. interconnected. People just built. haphazard bridges between one building.

and another so they didn't have to go. down 14 stories and then back up. Um. that essentially created one single. organism. That that's kind of how. Kowloon Walled City came to be seen when. it when it reached its fully developed. peak. Yeah, it had to be. the inspiration behind the. living quarters in Ready Player One. Mhm. Uh if you've ever seen that movie. or read the book, when I saw pictures of Kowloon Walled.

City for the first time I was like oh, looks like Ready Player One. Oh, really? >> Um except it was real. This was an. actual real place. So we encourage you at some point when. it's safe to do so to look it up cuz a. picture's worth a thousand words and we. spent probably a couple of thousand. trying to describe it. Mhm. Though the. thing that really um. rings. home, I guess, to me. >> Okay. Uh it's uh. I comparing it to Blade Runner. Like. especially in Blade Runner when Harrison. Ford is eating noodles and Edward James. Olmos comes up to to take him away.

Uh-huh. Um like just that kind of look. like the the fluorescent light, everything's packed together, there's. people everywhere. Like that's what it. looked like. Like there's no way that. the designers of Blade Runner did not. were not inspired by Kowloon Walled. City. I refuse to believe it. Well, and. as we'll see or I guess I could say it. now, there've been lots of video games. and movies um that were based either on. or very much patterned after this look. Uh one of the Black Ops games, this. movie about a stray cat.

uh or uh I'm sorry, video game about a. stray cat that maybe a movie at some. point, but. >> think it was. Uh this uh is all to say. it it was densely packed. Have we gotten. that across? What was that movie that I told you to. watch about the cat, the animated movie. about the cat, and then um. you uh you said, "Oh, I already saw it. in theaters." Was it called Flow? Uh I. think that was Flow. That was so so. great. God, that was such a good movie. I encourage everybody to go watch it. It's like almost 16- or 8-bit.

graphic-looking. It's very bitmapped on. purpose, and it really does a great job. of making it otherworldly. Yeah, it won. the Oscar, and it looks that way because. a dude made it in his apartment. Oh, man, that makes it even better. That is. such an amazing movie. Yeah, it's really. great. The other movie that sticks out. for me when I think of Kowloon Walled. City is the Merchant Ivory movie Howards. End. Right. Or uh Far and Away with uh Nicole. Kidman. Right. Tom Cruise, that one. I. saw that in the theater for some reason. Did you? Really? That's weird. >> I also saw Eyes Wide Shut in the.

theater, and I knew all about it going. into it, and so it was my birthday, so I. made my whole family go watch it. Oh, that's the very fun end of that story. Yeah. All right, so we need to go back in. history though if we want to talk about. how the city came to be. Mhm. And in. order to do that, we need to go back to. the First Opium War, which was uh a few. years between 1839 and '42 Mhm. where. there was a trade dispute between. Imperial China and Britain uh wherein. Britain was like, "Hey, we love shipping. in this uh opium from India to your.

addicted citizens." Right. And China was. like, "No, we like selling them opium. ourselves, and so let's go to war over. that." I think actually China was was. executing addicts in the street. They. were on a huge campaign to eradicate. opium addiction from their population, and Britain was like, "Uh-uh, we're. going to keep them addicted cuz we're. making tons of cash off of that." Oh, for sure. And this is after China had. made a ton of money shipping tea, so. there were trade relations already, you.

know, sort of ensconced. Yeah, and. Britain couldn't get enough of China's. tea, but China was like, "We don't. really want too much of your stuff. except our population wants the opium. you're smuggling it." So, imagine if. like the Juarez Cartel, like Mexico was. like, "Nope, we don't want you you. supplying our population with with. drugs." And the Juarez Cartel is like, "Oh, yeah, we're going to war with you, and we're going to win, and now we have. a treaty saying that we can sell your. population drugs, and you can't do. anything about it." That was essentially.

the first Opium War. >> Yeah. There was even a second Opium War, the sequel. That's right. But, another important thing came out of. the first Opium War, which was China was. forced to cede some land on Hong Kong, which, you know, wasn't a big bustling. place at that point, not much of. anything at that point. And in order to. sort of, you know, um. be close to them and sort of keep an eye. on what's going over there, the Qing. Dynasty said, "All right, we have a. military installation on just across the.

water. from Hong Kong on the Kowloon Peninsula. and over the Kowloon Bay. Yeah. And. let's build a big. wall there and just like fortify this. little military installation." So, they. built a wall 15 ft thick, 13 ft high. It. housed about 150 soldiers, and that's. where the name Kowloon Walled City came. from, from that wall. Yeah, and today's. modern Hong Kong is populated mostly on. the Kowloon Peninsula, but at the time.

it was the opposite. Hong Kong Island. was the population and this Kowloon. place was just a little nowhere's ville. essentially. And so China was like, yeah, we're going to keep this. We're. going to keep it an eye on the Brits. like this. And after. I guess the the second Opium War led to. the second convention of Peking where. both the first Opium War and the second. one found China just. giving into tons of demands from the. Brits, from the Americans, from I think. the French who were all like, you have.

to open your markets to us because we. want money from you guys. And one of the. things that came out of it was the very. famous 99-year lease that the Brits had. on Hong Kong. from China, which is why the. the UK administered Hong Kong for almost. 100 years essentially throughout the. 20th century. Yeah, so the other thing land wise that. came out of that second Opium War was. they ceded all of Hong Kong Island, the. entire Kowloon Peninsula to the Brits.

But keep in mind they still have this. walled city. kind of right there, you know, nearest. to the coast within that territory. And. so there was a little. I guess a little loophole that they I. don't know if they snuck it in there, but it was it was in you know, clearly. written. But there was a clause in there. basically that said it's so confusing. I'm not even going to read it, but the. result was this weird small walled city. within this territory that Britain now.

controls was to to stay there and to. stay that way. And to stay Chinese. territory. So this little tiny six acre. three rugby pitch. patch of land would be. Chinese sovereign land in this. British territory essentially is what. just got set up from the 1898 treaty. All right, so it's a weird situation, but that's what they're left with. Right. after the British take over there,

Uh, some Christian missionaries went in. It started to get populated, the walled. city did. They built a church. Yeah. Uh, some pig farmers came in. They started. squatting. People started squatting cuz, you know, it was protected by this. great, you know, not I'm sorry, not the. Great Wall. A Great Wall. Uh, that was when we were in Belize on. vacation. We went up a Rio Grande. Emily. kept saying, "You go up the Rio Grande. to get to the ocean.". And I was like, "I don't think it's the. Rio Grande.". And it was it was Rio Grande. Mhm. But,

uh, so the joke for the rest of the trip. was we're going up a Rio Grande. Very. cute. So, there was a Great Wall. So, that attracted squatters. It did. Um, and one of the reasons why. is because there was this idea that, okay, this is Chinese territory. So, that was already kind of a, uh, a. thought in people's head. That there. weren't enough people there and this. Christian missionary church kind of were. almost keeping an eye on things as far. as the Brits administering Hong Kong. were concerned. So, they weren't paying. much attention to it. And then World War.

II came along and Japan occupied big. swaths of China as we talked about in. our Unit 731 episode. Um, and one of. those swaths was the the peninsula, the. Kowloon peninsula. And they tore down. those thick, thick granite walls and. they used it to build out, uh, Kai Tak. Airport. And, um, it I think it was. already there as kind of like a airfield. or landing strip and they turned it into. like an actual airport and for many, many years, for decades, Kai Tak Airport. was the airport that you flew into when.

you flew to Hong Kong. Yeah, and it's, uh, you know, they. needed building material. I love. repurposing building materials. Sure. So, when I heard that part, I was like, "That's great." Uh, they don't need that. wall there anyway because it looks like. it had a wall built around it when you. looked at it. >> Right. You know, that was kind of the. funny thing. Yeah. Uh, which is ironic cuz it looks like they. populated that city with a wall and then. took the wall down. >> That, yeah. But, it it was just so, uh, I mean, everyone knew how far out. you could build, so it just kind of.

ended up looking that way. Right, it was. and it was and it was very densely. populated. That's what I've heard. So after World War a couple of things. happened geopolitically that kind of. gave rise to the Kowloon Walled City. The name stuck even though it didn't. have the walls. But a lot of the the people who were. refugees during the war. made their way down to the Kowloon. Peninsula and they were like we're not. Brits, we're Chinese so we're going to.

start squatting here. And the Brits were. like no, we're you know you're not. squatting here. This is not Chinese, it's ours, it's part of Hong Kong. We. basically own Hong Kong right now, so. get out. And they evicted all the. squatters in 1948. By this time it had. been there were like thousands of them. so it was a really big deal and then the. squatters just came back next week. That's right. They came back the next. week. They tried to kick them out again. and there was a riot this time. And I feel like that's a pretty good.

time for our first break. Okay, sure. All right, we'll be right back. Now inside. Chuck and Josh. All right, so we're back. Kowloon Walled City without the wall is.

being populated, they're getting kicked. out, they keep coming back. There was a. Chinese Civil War following World War so. that was one reason that people. you know between the Communist and the. Nationalist Party and that was one. reason people were starting you know to. get the heck out of you know in there I. guess. >> Yeah. And in 1949 you know the. Communists won, they declared the. people's Republic of China. And so that's when in the 1950s things. really kicked off with refugees trying. to get in there and build up up up.

Yeah, and if you were a refugee from. China, that meant you were probably a. nationalist or at the very least weren't. a communist and you just needed to get. out of there. But. you were as far as you were concerned. better off living on this tiny patch of. Chinese land cuz you still consider. yourself a Chinese national than you. were trying to assimilate into this. British administered colony that was. really Chinese, but the Brits didn't. treat it like that, right? And so these. people, these refugees became like this.

um. they almost like freedom fighters. And. even the CCP, the Chinese Communist. government, they would they were they were promoting. them. They would give them supplies. sometimes, they would give them food, sometimes they would send emissaries. down that would talk them up and be. like, "Keep fighting the good fight, you. know, we've got your back." And. essentially anytime the Brits tried to. make a move on the these residents of. Kowloon Walled City, China would step in and be like, "Uh-uh,

uh-uh. That is Chinese territory. So no. matter what these people did, the Brits'. hands were tied. And the whole reason. why was not that China cared about them, but it was a thorn in Great Britain's. side. There was this crazy weird area. that they did not have control over in. the middle of this colony that they had. taken from China. And China took every. opportunity to basically twist that. thorn in their side uh and they used. every every time that the people of. Kowloon were put upon as a chance to.

step in and flex their whatever. authority they did have in the area. still. Yeah, so as a result of all this, uh. the Brits were like, "Uh I don't even. care anymore.". Kind of. This is such a pain. Uh in the '50s and '60s they took a real. hands-off approach and just kind of let. what happened there happen there. And that led to a real influx of people. And then that housing boom, they they. didn't have. It looks like the only building code.

they have was you can't build anything. over 14 stories tall Right. cuz it's. right there next to the airport. >> Mhm. And you don't want to get a wing. through your living room one day. So, that was the only building code around, certainly the only one honored. Because. it was kind of in anything goes inside. there and what we ended up with, you mentioned an organic structure, it. was ended up called by architects an. organic mega structure. Sure. Because. these buildings would sink down into. their foundation and start to tip. But.

they would tip over into the next one. and that one was tipping toward it. So, they ended up calling like lovers. buildings because at the top they were. all kind of angled in and touching one. another and it's sort of sweet if you. think about it. It is. It is kind of. sweet. Um, the it was also at the same. time weirdly architects in like the 50s. and 60s there was kind of like a. avant-garde school of thought about just. incredibly dense Yeah. >> Um, like community building. And this is.

essentially a natural experiment and and. it kind of showed that a lot of those. theories held up. Kind of like the. buildings held one another up. Um, that. people could just build out what they. needed in ways that they needed in that. spaces that were livable without having. to be, you know, spread out without. having to have government oversight and. all that kind of stuff, too. Those buildings, especially when they. were lovers buildings, pressed up. against one another, they became so dense. that. sunlight would not penetrate the street.

level in a lot of cases in most cases, actually. Like one of the premiums for a. flat in the Kowloon Walled City was one. that was outward facing or faced on the. internal courtyard because they had sun. exposure. Most of the apartments, businesses, dwellings, streets, alleys. in Kowloon Walled City were not exposed. to sunlight at any point in the day. Yeah, and that uh you sent this pretty. good little YouTube. It was like uh. 15-20 minutes long about this uh walled. city that breaks it down and at one.

point I paused it because they had I was. wondering what these things cost. Mhm. And I don't know what year this was that. they uh. gave us these numbers from. >> Mhm. but a 280 square foot flat. cost 28,000 American dollars. And if you're thinking, all right, that. that 280, 28,000, that kind of makes. sense. But that was without sunlight. I. think the um exterior facing 450 square. foot flat was $60,000. Yeah, and I think.

that was in the '60s or '70s from a. paper I saw. Okay. But still, um one of the things I saw is. that a reason that this was attractive. to a lot of people be- because over time. the the place didn't just attract. Chinese nationalists and refugees from. China, it attracted people who were. like, "Oh, there's this really cheap. living in here. You could get a flat. that was about double the square footage. of a like a government flat, like a. council flat, public housing essentially.

you'd call it, and it had a kitchen and. a bathroom, and those were not. guaranteed in the public housing flats. uh that you would maybe even pay the. same and more for. So, there was like. real incentive to move into this place. if you didn't care about living cheek to. jowl with your neighbors amid. trash and abandoned appliances and all. sorts of other crazy stuff. Yeah, well, there were some benefits. though. If you lived in the Kowloon. Walled City, you didn't pay a electric. bill, almost certainly,

>> Mhm. uh because you probably just like. literally ran the electric yourself from. the public utilities. Uh there was all manner of plumbing and. wiring. uh routed from the outside coming in. into the walled city. So, these. buildings were wrapped in water pipes. and sewage lines and uh conduit running. electricity. Uh if you were a business, you weren't. paying any kind of business taxes. Right. Um so, that was a big plus. Um. but, you didn't have stuff like uh trash.

pickup. Uh and you had to deal with. things like heroin dealers and brothels. and uh the Triad gang kind of running. the show, which, you know, it was mostly. bad, but they also did some some things. to keep the place up. Yeah, a a good. example that I saw of what life was like. in this that made it like people just. got used to the stuff and it was every. day was that you would when you're. walking on street level, you would carry. an umbrella. because of those exposed pipes, they. would be leaking on you, but some of. those pipes were also sewage pipes. So,

those would be dripping and leaking, too, because there was no code that was. being followed. It was like, I need a. sewage outlet coming out of my house. here, so I'm just going to run this pipe. right here, and that's that. Um so, people just walked around with umbrellas. on street level. Um another one that I. saw that people just got used to is that. a lot of the street level um areas were. tunnels. And the reason that they were. tunnels is because overhead there was a. mesh net that had been laid between. buildings to catch the trash that people.

just threw out of their windows. And the. reason that they put the mesh netting. was because if they didn't, then you. wouldn't be able to get into the ground. floor of any of the buildings because it. would they would be so covered up with. trash. And so, these impromptu alleys. developed as trash built overhead, and. the the the walls of the first floor of. these buildings were exposed on either. side. People just got used to this. Like, this was just what life was like. in Kowloon. And it in some ways it. wasn't that much worse if if at all than.

some of the other poverty-stricken areas. of of Hong Kong at the time. Yeah, like. if you're wondering like why did people. even live there or stay there? It's for. exactly that reason. You know, it it wasn't so different from. other poor places that it would have. been a big like life improvement to. move. And this was their home. It may look kind of kind of crazy from. the outside, but people really made a. life there. They were hundreds of legit. businesses there. There was there were.

machine shops. There were a lot of. machine shops as far as industry goes. and metal fabrication. And then food was. a big one. There were. lots of food factories and in that. documentary they said, you know, there. was always a feeling that like some of. the food that was made there was in on. the plates and in the bowls of some. really high-class restaurants. surrounding them. Yeah, the fish balls. So, they were unregulated fish balls. made in highly unsanitary conditions.

that just made it out of the Kowloon. Walled City. Cuz that's another thing, too. A lot of people look at this from. the outside and think like this is. completely isolated from the rest of. Hong Kong. Absolutely untrue. Those. businesses were exporting out of the. city into the rest of Hong Kong. People. were coming from outside of the city. into the city for things like dentists. and doctors who were all unlicensed, unregulated, which at first blush you're. just like, "Oh my god, why would you go. to a unlicensed dentist?" Well, they.

were already trained and licensed in. China, but when they went to Hong Kong. those. credentials didn't transfer over. And. so, rather than pay and become a. licensed dentist in Hong Kong under. British rule, they just set up in. Kowloon Walled City and and set up. practice without needing a license. Yeah, and it was cheaper. Way cheaper. There were schools if you're like, you. know, did they even function as like a. regular society? They they actually for. sure did. Uh there were uh.

kindergartens, there were schools. A lot. of times it was like the Salvation Army. or somebody kind of running these. things. Um. if you were like, what about a. playground or something like that? Some. of these rooftops had, you know, playground equipment where kids could. go. Uh pigeon racing was a big thing. So, there were gardens on the roofs, the. ones that didn't have trash on them. Uh and they were also keeping these. racing pigeons up there. Uh and, you know, there was actually. some order. It wasn't just like you. might picture like constant chaos or. something like that. It was more like.

something you see out of Blade Runner, just a really densely populated city. like actually functioning. They had. volunteer fire brigades. Uh they did, you know, they didn't have. municipal trash collection. Uh and there. was trash all over the place, but they. tried, you know, they had volunteer. trash collection teams. They had night. watch teams. There was a a a single uh. mail delivery person delivering to the. entire city. So, they were functioning. Yeah, there was the the officially the. neighborhood welfare association. If you. bought or sold a flat, the neighborhood.

welfare association would witness it. So, it was very much legal. Uh and then the triads you mentioned, they were running and they were. manufacturing and selling heroin out of. the the city. They were running. protection rackets and brothels and pros. and child prostitutes and all sorts of. terrible stuff. And then simultaneously, they were also. providing the law and order that did. exist. Like, it was not just chaotic. anarchy. It was anarchic in the in the. sense of like.

government regulation and oversight. like, you know, building codes and. stuff. But, it's not like you just. walked over your neighbor's house and. killed them and took their stuff and. that was that. Like, there was law and. order and it was the the rule of the. triads who essentially kept people from. dis- I guess descending into chaos if if. was even a a possibility. Well, they didn't want it's kind of the. the rule of the street. They didn't want. real authorities coming in there. And if it got so bad, that would.

eventually happen. It was Sure. I mean, I remember when my friend bought. his first house in Atlanta in the. mid-90s in a pretty rough neighborhood. Like he got his house broken into and. got some stuff stolen. And the guy that. was the big like drug dealer dude in the. neighborhood brought his stuff back. Oh, wow. And like knocked on his door and. said, "Here's your guitar. Here's your. amp. Uh here's your stuff." And he was. like, uh you know, I think the unspoken thing. was like he didn't want the cops in. there. >> Sure. So, he's trying to keep his guys.

from doing dumb stuff like that to. attract attention. Okay. So, yeah, perfect analogy. That's exactly what the. triads were doing in there. Um and so, yeah, if you. if you just, you know, if you wanted to. to do heroin or something, I think it. was largely smoked. You would come from. outside Kowloon Walled City. Maybe if. you like heroin so much, you'd stick. around and move there. Um but at the. same time, if you were just some elderly. person looking for a cheap place to stay. that was willing to to live in an.

incredibly dense um place, uh like there. was there was room for you there, too. So, it it was a really I saw that it was. vilified and and romanticized and it. really shouldn't be either. Neither of. those should be done to it. It was, just. like every other place, multiple shades. of gray. It was just Literally. the. Sure. And the it's just that the. extremes on either side are so. fascinating, especially when they they. the whole spectrum is viewed that that.

that's what made Kowloon City so. remarkable. Yeah, for sure. Um I think. that's a great time for our second. break. And we're going to talk about what. happened in Kowloon City right after. this.

>> Uh Chuck, we're back and I just want to. say before I forget again, um 99%. Invisible, of course, did an amazing. episode. >> Oh, of course they did. >> on this back in 2012, so Great Roman. Mars. Yeah. And you could be like, "Oh, that's not what Josh and Chuck said. They said something different." Just go. with Roman Mars' interpretation. Yeah, I just weirdly texted Roman the. other day or yesterday for the first. time in a long, long time. Like weirdly? You said something weird? No, just weird that you brought him up.

That's like twice that he's been. mentioned in my life uh. and twice in a couple of days and it had. been a while. And he didn't text me back. yet. So, come on, Roman. Seriously, Roman, get your act together. So, um. uh yeah, so with Kowloon Walled City, it's going along. Most of the stuff. we've just talked about, the 14-story. buildings, lovers buildings pressed up. against one another, the trash tunnels, all that stuff is really taking place. from about 1970 to say 1990-92,

okay? That's like the the peak of the. notoriety and infamy and the just the. the way that people think of Kowloon. Walled City. It was basically between. those decades, right? And even before then, even before there. were 14-story buildings astonishingly. going up in this in the city, the Brits. were like, "We really hate that Kowloon. Walled City is sitting there. It's just. like a thumb in our eye that the Chinese. just keep keep rubbing over and over. again. We really want to get rid of it.".

But their their hands were tied. essentially. Despite that, they they. tried a bunch of different ideas to try. to get people out of Kowloon Walled City. so they could tear it down. It was a toe in their tea. Perfect. Man, you are on fire today. I mean, can you imagine anything worse? Uh a foot in your Brunswick stew. Right. Oh, wow. Okay. That one's today. >> and everything. Good god. >> Let's call back. All right. So, if you don't know what.

that is, everybody, you're that's this. is going to be a little Easter egg for. you one day. Deep in the stuff you. should know archives. >> Thank you. Deep in a pot of Brunswick. stew. All right. In 1962, the Brits uh. started or I'm sorry, they completed. construction. on a high-rise public housing complex. called the Tung Tau Estate. >> Sure. And they're like, "All right, everybody. Look what we built for you.". Residents of Kowloon Walled City, "Get out of there. Come on over here. We. want to resettle you. Uh this is much. nicer.". Um authorities showed up. They had uh.

notices that they posted and handed. people. Uh and they were met with the. Kowloon Walled City Anti-Demolition and. Anti-Removal Committee. They said, "No, thanks. We want to stay here.". Yeah. And so, they said, "Um you know. what? We're going to tell China on you. essentially." And China stepped in and. was like, "No, guys, you're not going to. do that. These people have a right to. live here. This is quote a gross. violation of China's sovereignty and. everybody should should protest and.

strike." And they did. And the cops came. in and there were clashes. And um it. became a essentially an international. scandal that the Brits were picking on. these poor people who are squatting in. this poor area in a colony the Brits. were administering. It was not a very. good look. So, the Brits backed off. And. it was another chance for China to be. like, "Haha, we we are really using. Kowloon Walled City to the to the. maximum effect." So, the Brits who still.

wanted to tear this down, they went back. to the drawing board. That's right. But, what they knew they. had was this 99-year lease. >> Yeah. Signed in 1898, so you do the. math. Uh 1997 was that year on the. horizon, just sort of sitting out there. >> I would have said 98. And then. then the Brits, they knew this date was. coming. Uh China knew this date was. coming. And they were like, all right. Uh. do China was like, huh, we've been. making hemming and hawing about this. thing being sovereign. Like, do we.

really want this back in 1997? Do we. want to inherit this thing? >> Mhm. And on the Brit side, they were. like, aha, like, we know what they're. thinking over there. They don't want to. really inherit this thing, either. >> Yeah. So they started some sort of more. legitimate um like. agreeing uh with one another. uh as far as talks go as early as like. 1986 when China was like, uh maybe we. should actually talk this over now. Yeah, and these were secret talks, right? So um for China, this this city. had outlived its political usefulness,

and I guess just as a. I mean, they wanted to tear it down so. badly that the Brits were willing to do. this for China shortly before the. handover in 1997. Um and so what they came up with is that. residents would be offered financial. compensation, pretty good compensation, too. I think about $300,000 for a flat. that again they'd spent maybe $30,000 on. 20 years before. Um they would be moved into a high-rise. public housing unit. They're basically.

all going to be resettled into a nicer. life gratis with a little spending. money. That's right. Uh so, finally, on January. 14th, 1987, uh they got 360 staff. members from the uh Clearance and. Squatter Control from Hong Kong, and they they came down to Kowloon City, and uh they were like, hey, we need to. get a we need to know how many people. are here. We need to know how many. people we're resettling, so we need an.

actual census. Like, no one has a clue. We've been guessing how many people live. here uh based on ordinary numbers and. this isn't ordinary place. So, they. cordoned off all 83 entrances and exits. to the city, went door-to-door, and did. a census, and counted people up, and. said, "Hey, uh this is the plan moving. forward. You're going to be resettled.". And there wasn't a riot this time. Um. they were still thinking like, "Oh, yeah, we're going to tell China on you.". Cuz they didn't know those secret talks. had been going on. >> Right. This time it was different uh and. the Chinese uh Foreign Ministry finally.

stepped up and in a formal statement. said, in so many words, "Yeah, the time has come and we're giving this. over to the British. Um they're going to. they're going to. uh rid this place of its residences and. it was nice while it lasted." Yeah. Uh so, that was 1987, you said? It wasn't until '94 that Kowloon Walled. City was finally fully demolished, and. it wasn't until 2 years before that that. the last um.

uh resident was finally evicted. There. was a a few There were a few holdouts. A. lot of people were like, "Like, yeah, I'll take 300 grand and a new place to. live." Um. there were some holdouts because I don't. I don't. Probably people have guessed this, but. we didn't say it overtly. Um. there there was a tremendous amount of. pride among people living in Kowloon. Walled City. >> It was their home. Yes. And it was a. very special and unique home, and they. were not going to find that anywhere. else on Earth, and they knew it. And so, a lot of them were holdouts for a very.

long time and did not want to go. Yeah, and I imagine it attracted, just. like the initial attraction in the '50s. and '60s, people that didn't want to be. under like the thumb of a government, was still sort of a sentiment there. Yeah. Uh they didn't want to assimilate. to the the larger sort of system. uh because they had a system that they. felt worked for them in whatever way. that was. So, I have a lot of respect. for the people that were like, "No, I I. want to leave. You can't kick me out of. my home. Um but like you said sadly, the. last person uh was evicted in 1992.

Uh. there were people burning Union Jacks, setting off homemade firecrackers and. stuff. A few people actually physically. battled the cops a little bit. Um but it wasn't you know, it was a. pretty small resistance and then July of. '92, the last person left. >> Yes. So there's nothing really left of. Kowloon Walled City. It's just the. footprint. This footprint has been. around. for hundreds of years and it will not go. away. It's an indelible print on Hong.

Kong as a town, as an area on the. Kowloon Peninsula. And even the the Kai. Tak Airport is gone now. They've moved. the airport further away from the city. center. Cuz like you said, they had to. be very careful descending. We've talked. about it before. I don't remember. Maybe. like our air traffic control episode or. something. >> Yeah, probably. >> Um where like you basically had to clear. the 14-story. uh walls walled city and then suddenly. drop to hit the the runway. It was. really. not well planned because there wasn't. really a plan. So they moved the.

airport, they got rid of Kowloon Walled. City and now there's a park there and. it's a place. Yeah, and I think they uh didn't that. documentary say that original religious. building is still there? It's like the. only thing that's left from the the from. the early days? >> It was the office of the administrator. of the fort. And yes, it's still there. They preserved it in the Kowloon Walled. City. That was what that courtyard was. It was built around that that original. office from the I think the Qing. Dynasty. Yeah, that was it. That's the.

only thing from the early days that's. left. It's uh like you said, it they. it's a green space and there's ponds. It's quite lovely. They they do have a. um table-size scale model of what was. there. Um but yeah, it's still that same shape. Like if you do aerial shots, you know, it's they really stuck to. their parameters Yeah. with the city once the walls were gone. and with this park cuz it's the exact. same shape still. Uh and you know, like we mentioned, it's. been in a ton of. uh either directly sort of been the. setting for movies, like in Bloodsport.

Yeah. from Jean-Claude Van Damme, or. been like heavily inspired uh by what. the sort of the look they were going. after in video games and films. I don't. care what you say, Bloodsport was a good. movie. I I You know what? I didn't see a single. Jean-Claude Van Damme movie. I saw a. time I should I I'll tell you this off. of off of. But anyway, I finally saw Bloodsport. when I was uh not like a couple of years. ago, and I was like, "Wow, this movie's. actually really good.". I I got to check it out.

Oh, you should check it out. That's what. I'm saying. Yeah, that that's my new deal. It's uh. uh Jean-Claude all the way. Okay. Okay. Where's he been? Uh remember he had like a podcast or a. TV show or something for a little while? >> Of course. Yeah, I think he did. Or it. was like. >> celebrities? It was a No, I'm sorry. It. was like a TV show where it was a. it was a mockumentary or pseudo reality. where he played himself, but Jean-Claude. Van Damme actually was a spy in real. life or something like that.

>> I don't I haven't heard of that. >> it was short-lived. All right. Uh well, since Chuck uh has dedicated himself to. watching Jean-Claude Van Damme movies. all the time, that means obviously it's. time for listener mail. All right. So, this is a rare uh rebut. to a listener mail, so a listener. writing in about another listener mail. Ooh. Because we had our Irish friend. write in and uh point out that we were. um sort of engaging in Irish erasure. >> Right. So, hey guys, while the emailer. was correct that Shackleton was born in.

County Kildare, Shackleton himself would. have considered himself British. He was. born in Ireland while it was under. British rule, and moved to Great Britain. when he was 10. He served in the British. Army and was awarded many British. honors. Uh I myself am a proud Irishman, but I. don't think you were wrong in calling. him British. >> Wow. I'm happy to accept um that uh. that he was correct if there was a quote. which shows that he considered himself. Irish. Ireland in nationality is always. a tricky subject. I hold a UK driver's. license and an Irish passport. I have.

one child technically born in the UK and. one born in Ireland with just 80 mi. between the hospitals and them both. being on the same island. Uh keep up the. good work, guys. Been listening for. years and I love the show. That's from. Jamie Finnegan. And uh we're not going. to wade into this any further, Jamie, because I know that stuff is very. tricky. Yeah. So we have read the. original email and now the rebuttal and. we're going to leave it to you guys to. work it out. >> Nice. I think that's a great idea. And. that was from Jamie, right?

Yes, it is. Okay. Well, thanks a lot, Jamie. And if you want to be like Jamie, you can send us an email, too. Send it. off to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from. iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. to your favorite shows.