How Climate Migration Works | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over. there. And this is Stuff You Should. Know. Um, the Is it getting hot in here. or is it just me edition? Uh, yeah, that's right. Well, you know what we can. do? We can just migrate to another part. of the iHeart offices here. Yeah. Nice.

A nice cool studio. Yeah, they really do. keep them cool. Frankly, cold. Yeah. And. this is that's the last fun we're going. to have on this episode cuz this is not. so fun. That is not true. There's plenty. of places for jokes here. Okay. All. right. Good. Do you remember we did one. on comas and we had jokes. So, come on. We can do this. Yeah, it's a good point. So, we're talking climate migration and. it it's um a really interesting topic. This was your idea, actually. Um and I.

tip my hat to you. Thank you. And uh I'm. just joking. I'm not I'm not wearing a. hat. See, another joke. So, um, the the thing that surprised me, so we're climate migration, we should. just tell people off the bat, is where. people have to move somewhere else. because extreme weather, droughts, um, basically anything extreme temperatures, anything that has to do with climate. change, basic ruining where they live. Yeah, that's climate migration human.

wise. Yes. Like there's an animal. climate migration we're not even going. to talk about. No, we did a whole. episode on plant migration that was due. to climate, too. So, um this is Yes, that was a good good catch. This is. humanpecific. Um and one of the things that struck me. about this is there's a there's not a. lot of like solid agreement on exactly. how bad things are going to be. Yeah. And exactly how far people are going to. have to move. And even among the people.

who do agree, the experts who do. generally agree on some stuff, they're. still like I don't know that this is. going to be as bad as it's being. portrayed like say in the media. Yeah, for sure. Uh and you know, we'll get to. some studies and stats and things, but. this stats you got to keep in mind are. kind of a guess because as Libya points. out, uh or maybe we'll just talk about. that when we get to the stats part. Okay. But I just wanted to put a I. wanted to put a lid on the hysteria. because like you said, we just don't. know yet and it might not be as bad as.

we think. There might be some pluses. there. There are definitely going to be. some minuses, but it's something that. we're talking about now. And it's. decades enough into the future that we. have time to prepare for it. It's kind. of like we went from, okay, let's stop. emitting greenhouse gases to, okay, it's. too late for that. Now we have to figure. out how to deal with the repercussions. of that. That's where we're at. But we. have a little bit of time and if we. start thinking about and talking about. how to do this smartly and responsibly.

without again becoming hysterical and. overplanning and overdoing it um we. could we could do this right and make it. as comfortable as possible. Yeah. we. being specifically the United States. because there are other parts of the. world that are already sort of uh. proactive rather than kind of like you. said being reactive and waiting when uh. potential refugees are just sort of at. the border saying like we have no place. to go because our our. habitat I guess humans have a habitat. right? Yeah, sure. Is that true? Yeah,

every animal has a habitat. Okay. I. didn't know if I was being callous by. considering us all just animals. Were. you being a speciist? Maybe. So, uh, but if speaking of the. US, you know, you do hear a lot of talk. about that kind of thing like, oh, people are going to be coming into our. country. Um, you know, depending on who. you talk to in this country. Some people. might welcome them, some people might. not. Uh but as Livia is very astute to. point out generally what we're talking. about nowadays the more common thing.

that you're seeing is people um people. don't want to leave their home you know. so yeah that's a big point they'll move. as kind of close as they can to where. they're from rather than say hey let's. just pick up and go to a completely. different country where I know nothing. about it and I don't speak the language. like what's generally happening is if. there's a climate issue like let's say. which could look like a lot of things. and we're going to talk about a lot of. them. It could mean I I just can't farm. here anymore because it's so droughtrone. or there was a my coastline is.

disappearing or the there was a a. natural disaster here so I have to. leave. People want to move uh close to. where they are. So they're generally. saying like, "All right, I can't be out. here in the farm area anymore. So let's. move toward the urban centers." And. that's why a lot of these urban centers. in the global south are popping at the. seams. Yeah. And it's gonna definitely. get more poppy for sure as we go. Yeah. But as it stands right now, especially. say like uh you can take California for.

an example. Um they deal with wildfires, like that's just a fact of life and it's. getting to be a much more frequent fact. of life. So if you leave your house um. because there's a wildfire in your. backyard, you are technically a climate. migrant right then. Yeah. But if you go. back and rebuild or your house didn't. end up burning down, um, you're. basically following the current pattern. of climate migration. You're leaving. long enough to for for you to take.

yourself out of harm's way during the. disaster, the extreme weather event, and. then going back. But if you do that. enough times, some people are going to. just get tired of that, and they're. eventually not going to go back. And. that's that's kind of like how climate. migration, at least say in the United. States right now, is starting to to. look. Yeah. Or starting to starting to. establish itself, right? And but the. idea is that I guess if you're moving. away from where uh wildfires are more.

rampant, you're going to move to a place. um probably as close as you can, unless. you know in America, if you have like. family on the other side of the country. or something where those wildfires. generally don't happen, maybe you'll do. that. But if we're talking about. countries, you're probably moving within. your country. Uh, and within your. country there, it's not like, oh, well, I've, you know, I'm I'm at a place where. the climate problem isn't a problem. So, it's not solving a bigger problem. You. know what I'm saying? Yeah. And even.

more so, like if you're a migrant, um, even within your own country, like you. said, say like to an urban center or. something like that. Um, a lot of times. when you show up, you might show up with. all of your neighbors, your entire. community, maybe your entire region if. the say like the drought is bad enough. and the city is not like, "Hey, we just. happen to have all this extra free. housing for you guys, so come on in.". Very frequently you'll end up in what. amounts to a refugee camp. It's a. climate refugee camp, but it's.

essentially the same thing as any other. refugee camp. There's usually not. running water. There's not good. infrastructure. And this is a point that. I hadn't thought of, but Livia pointed. out, you're maybe even more uh. vulnerable to natural disasters now. because you live in a tent. So if a. sandstorm comes along, you're in trouble. because you just are in a tent rather. than say the house that you had to leave. because your farm was no longer. producing crops. Yeah. And also you're.

you're living like uh perhaps in like a. a shanty town on the outskirts of town. and you're going to see increased. poverty. Uh that's going to be an. unstable situation and then violence. comes along oftentimes in these places. uh she found one study uh from 2022 of. Central African migrants. Um 5% reported. that they moved um specifically for. environmental reasons, but 50% said, "Yeah, but that played a part in the. decision to leave." Like whether or not.

they're saying like, "No, the drought's. too bad here. I'm leaving." Or it some. places are just the extreme heat is. becoming so bad is people just can't. live there anymore. uh they're not saying I'm I'm moving. just because of that, but half of them. were saying like, yeah, that was a. factor uh that led to this this whole. mess, right? Yeah. And there's probably. the most famous and most wellstudied. recent example of um climate migration. leading to violent conflict was the.

Syrian civil war. Yeah. Yeah. Um, between 2006 and 2010, there was a. really really bad drought in Syria and. the surrounding region and a lot of. people had to move to the city uh or. cities and they like a lot of people. were displaced and they joined people. who had already um arrived as refugees. before from Iraq um and from uh. Palestine. And so all these people are. there. The government is basically. ignoring them, pretending like they're.

not there. Um, their farms are being. lost. They're getting zero help from the. government, which has become neoliberal. under Bashar al-Assad, who took over for. from his father. And they start the. unrest gets bad enough that a civil war. starts like there's a rebel insurgency. to topple um Assad. And uh it actually. ended up working. It didn't at first. because Assad famously used chemical. weapons on his own people and he got. everything under control, but then they. made a second uh push this past I think.

December and ran them out of the country. and actually took over. And you can. trace that ultimately back to that. drought that was created largely by um. climate change. And that's that's nuts. Like if you think about it, if that. drought had never happened, there. wouldn't have been a Syrian civil war. And that's probably the most extreme. version example of of climate a climate. crisis leading to violent armed.

conflict. But it's not like it doesn't. exist. It's not like it doesn't happen. Like that happened. Yeah. I mean, over. an 8-year period from 2002 to 2010, uh, the urban population in Syria went. from just under 9 million people to. almost 14 million. That's nuts. That is. a lot of people to add. Um, but and this. isn't like to I'm in full agreement, so. this isn't a counterpoint, but uh, Syria. mishandled that. And there are other. countries in the region that suffered. through the same drought uh specifically.

Jordan and Lebanon that had a government. that was more proactive and responsive. and they had policies that were put in. place that they didn't have the same. kind of you know destructive outcomes. that Syria had. So it's you know it all. depends on how you're handling the situ. situation. And we're going to talk a lot. about uh countries, you know, people. leaving countries and then especially. the receiving countries because that's. really where the rubber meets the road. for sure. Um if the the rubber hasn't.

melted by then. That's right. And if the. road is still intact and not cracked to. pieces. Yeah. It hasn't buckled. Yeah. Um there are actually some estimates all. over the place uh about how many climate. migrants they're going to be. And there. was something called the ground swell. report that the World Bank put out in. 2021 and they um are saying by 2050. 216 million people will have moved. either to another country or within.

their own country because um climate. conditions have made where they used to. live untenable. So we're talking 25. years, not even 30 years anymore, Chuck, we're in 2025. That's if if my math. holds up, that's just 25 years from now. That is a tremendous amount of. migration. Uh some people say, "Nah, it's probably going to be more like 50. million, but it seems like that World. Bank analysis is the most commonly. cited, although you could also suggest.

it's the most commonly cited because. it's such a eye popping number." Yeah, true. Uh well, this is probably a good. place since I promised to talk about. something statreated. Um, one of the. reasons it's hard or one of the reasons. you get something like anywhere from 50. to 250 million people, this pretty big. swing is cuz we don't know how effective. our efforts are going to be to curb. emissions and to get things, you know, sort of on the right track again. Mhm. Uh how successful we're going to be at, you know, some wealthier countries doing. things like seaw walls and uh.

redistributing water resources and. things like that because as you'll see a. lot of and we've talked about before. that, you know, the most precious. resource in the future is uh love is is. it is love. Oh man, I needed that. Uh. water, unfortunately. So, you know, there have been people that talk about, you know, the wars of the future will be. fought over water. And as we'll see, a. lot of climate migration happens either. because of a lack of water or a lack of. water that's, you know, useful for.

humans, uh, or too too much water in. other parts like rising sea waters and. such. Yeah, for sure. Um, so the the uh. World Bank broke it down that subsaharan. Africa is going to see by far the most. 86 million followed by East Asia and the. Pacific at 49 million. South South Asia. 40 million, North Africa 19 million. Although some people are like it's going. to be even more than that for North. America and parts of the Middle East. because it's going to get so hot that.

you it will be uninhabitable by humans. Yeah, I think you can meant North Africa. and not North America. That's right. Yes. North Africa and the Middle East, not North America and the Middle East. I. think people who listen to the show know. us enough now to where we're like old. pals and they're like, "Oh, Josh, Chuck, you don't even need to point that out. We know what you meant." You know what. though? I think I think we should. introduce a new device here in year 17. Uhhuh. Whenever I misspeak, just cut me. off in the middle by doing your egg uh.

color. splat. Can we try that? Let's try that. All. right. So, you ready? Yeah. So, it's. going to get so hot in the Middle East. and North America that Oh, what did I. say wrong, Chuck? Nothing. I just like. doing that sound. I think we've come up. with something new that we really need. to do. Uh, all right. Well, how about. this? Why don't we take a break? Um, you. said Latin America was 17 million, right? No, I never got there. Latin. America, 17 million. Don't forget. Eastern Europe and Central Asia. 5.

million. So, you know, not nearly as. many as as the others, but there are uh. again water scarcity. Yeah. Uh in places. like Mongolia and Kazakhstan. Mhm. So, now can we take a break? Yeah, we can. take a break. I think you should take us. out on your eggplat sound again. All. right. We'll be right back. [Music]. Josh stuff you should.

[Music]. know. All right. So, I could kind of. teased out um the importance of uh or. I'm sorry, importance. I soften tease. here in the south. Everybody, if you. haven't noticed by now in year 17, receiving communities are very. important. Uh how safe these people are.

going to be um when they move to this. place is a and again a they're still. going to be vulnerable to the impacts of. climate where they go most likely or or. almost, you know, with 100% certainty. uh but just how safe they're going to be. period because we talked about sometimes. when they set up on the outskirts of. towns and there's violence and they're. more susceptible by being in a shanty or. a tent or something uh to just even a. hard rain. So it it's almost like this.

uh it's a vicious cycle that's happening. where people are being displaced to. places that also aren't safe. Yeah. Yeah. And we should say that most of. this migration and most of the migrants. are going to be coming from or going um. moving within the what's called the. global south. Yeah. And you don't use. the equator as the dividing line for the. global south. For example, Australia and. New Zealand squarely in the southern. hemisphere, but they're not considered. global south. It's a distinction between. the developed and the developing world.

Um so you have Latin America, Africa, uh. India is usually included, China is. included. um and Southeast Asia. Um and. it it these countries ironically are if. you accept China and India, most of. these countries are have put out the. least amount of emissions that that. triggered climate change and yet they're. the most vulnerable to climate change. Uh in large part because they're. developing and if you're a developing.

country, you're probably still really. reliant on agriculture. you're relying. on things like timber and other natural. resources and those are the things that. are getting impacted first right off the. bat. Um and so if your economy is based. on agriculture and there's a drought. that covers your entire nation, your. economy is in big trouble and your. people are probably going to have to. move. Yeah. Um here's the thing though. and this isn't like a bright side sort. of thing. Um it it puts a strain on.

resources when a lot of new people come. to a place. uh but they can also be an. asset because most of those migrants are. going to end up performing a lot of very. important jobs in that area. Um a lot of. them work in agriculture uh some work in. construction, some work in child care. Um but those same people are also not. necessarily it it depends on the. receiving community. Um even down to. that community level and how they're. going to take care of those people. And. what I mean by take care in this case is. just see that they get a fair shot at.

like earning a wage by performing a job. Um if you uh you face up a lot of. potential workplace abuse uh if you're. one of those migrants uh and the United. Arab Emirates is a is a striking. example. um 88% of the population there. is made up of migrants um mainly from. Pakistan uh Nepal, Bangladesh and it's. very hot there as well and so they're. not taking care of their migrant uh. population of workers and they can just. sometimes some companies might be like.

you know what we're not going to pay you. for that what are you going to do about. it yeah there's a lot of examples of. modern um slavery forced labor in the. UAE and other countries very wealthy. Gulf states um And that is a good. example of climate migrants, but really. any kind of migrant being taken. advantage of and it's something that. definitely has to be paid attention to. On the other hand, there are studies. that say, okay, it this actually might. be good. Like yes, we need to make sure. that the receiving countries are not.

exploiting the climate migrants or any. migrants, but um the the pressure that. could be relieved from their home. country if they're moving to more. developed or wealthier countries that. are more set up with infrastructure and. social structure to absorb them. Yeah. um that that actually could be a plus. because all of a sudden the population. is not swollen in an urban center where. it's really hot and you're around people. from an ethnic group that your ethnic. group has hated for a thousand years. Uh.

like moving some of these people out to. other countries could actually be a. relief valve that could keep uh social. upheaval from happening. Yeah, potentially. So under the United. Nations, uh they have a refugee. convention from 1951 that specifically. defines the the good thing it does. It. defines that refugees are entitled to. legal rights, uh entitled to travel, uh. some kinds of support, um housing, that. kind of thing. But the uh I guess kind.

of the downside of what uh it did is it. very narrowly defined what a refugee was. in the wake of World War II, which was. right, you have to be fleeing. persecution on the basis of race, religion, nationality, political. opinion, or group membership. Uh and. only if you're fleeing from one border. to the next. We already, you know, mentioned that a lot of this is. happening within their home country. So. they they don't have any of those UN. guaranteed rights. But uh a lot of. people legal scholars are saying hey we. need to expand that definition to.

include. uh maybe not necessarily only crossber. and people who are climate refugees. Yeah. Like why not add the sun? You can. be fleeing the sun and and we'll. consider you a refugee from now on. That's me every summer in Atlanta, right? You just go down in your. basement, right? And turns. Yeah. Um so yes there are there are like. I guess there's structure there's like. global structure um that can be applied.

to climate migrants and climate refugees. it's just that's not necessarily. happening right now but it wouldn't take. much I think is what we're saying right. to just kind of expand the existing. definitions well yeah and that's just. you know that's the UN definition there. are other places in the world the. organization of African unity convention. in the Latin America Cartahia is that. Cardahia Yeah, I know that from. Romancing the Stone. We just watched that with Ruby last. weekend. It's such a good movie. It.

holds up and it is if you if you have a. kid that's around that age that's into. sort of like action adventure kind of. movies, which she is, it's a it's a. great one, man. She had a really good. time and it's not like super. inappropriate for an 80s movie. That's. really surprising. Did you follow up. with Jewel of the Nile? Not yet, but uh yeah, that that'll be. coming. It's just uh Danny Devito, man. What what a national treasure that guy. is. Yeah, he really is a jewel. So. great. Ira. Ira. I forgot how much I.

love remains in the stone. Mhm. Uh all. right, so back to Cardahania. declaration. They have an expanded. definition of refugee um that is more. broad than the UN uh where they say. events uh that are seriously disturbing. public order which obviously could. include climate events. Yeah. The sun. can do that. Yeah. So, um one of the. things that a lot of these nations that. are going to be most affected are saying. is like, "Hey, um we appreciate you guys.

thinking about this, but we don't really. want to move. So, is there like a a a. version of this where we can stay and. you wealthy countries who kind of got us. into this mess in the first place can. maybe help fund some of the mitigation. efforts that we're trying to to put in. place? And so far, the wealthy countries. are like, "What? I can't hear you. The. the connections breaking up." But that. may change as we get a little further. down the road. Who knows? But there are. some some governments that are like kind.

of starting to plan because they're like. this is not this is not 2050 for us. This is like 2030 that we're having to. worry about. And in some places it's. already started happening. Like. Kiraabati is a Pacific island nation. It's 32 nations about 130,000 people and. at best it's just about at sea level. Yeah. And when sea level is rising. Kiraabati is going under the sea. And. apparently sea level is rising about. four times faster than other parts of.

the world. Yeah, the writing is on the. wall there very sadly. For sure. So. their their government um was like, "Okay, we have to figure out how to move. people and we have to figure out how to. do it right." And they started looking. at Fiji, right? Yeah. And uh Fiji kind. of stepped up and were like, "Hey, we. have uh some under uh developed land. I. guess it was undeveloped land that we. can sell you." This is in 2014. And the. president at the time of Kiraabati was. uh Anote Tong. I think that's right.

Yeah. All right. And uh Tongs, you know, was all over this like let's buy this. land. Uh let's move people like not. just, you know, a few families like. let's start moving on mass over there. because, you know, the writing is on the. wall here and these islands just aren't. going to be around at some point, right? Uh he they were he was calling it. migration with dignity. And then in. 2016, Tong lost the president to Taneti. Mamau. And this it was just, you know,

sometimes when a new administration. comes in, Josh, things can shift in. radical directions. I don't know if you. knew that or not. I could see Mauo um. basically running on this platform. because I'm guessing 130,000 people in a. 32 island spread. Yeah. Is Kiraabati. Um, like I'm guessing moving the entire. country to Fiji is probably top of the. mind of the voters there. So, I'm. guessing that Mao Mao or Ma Mao um ran.

on a platform against moving and was. like, "No, we're going to figure out how. to stay here. We're going to build seaw. walls. We're going to cross our fingers. We're going to use fairy dust." Who. knows what what um they were running on, but they won because people don't want. to move if they don't have to. if. there's a chance of them staying where. they lived, where their families have. lived, um they want to stay. Typically, that's what people are who study climate. migrants are finding. Yeah. Well, in. that case, it was, you know, billions of.

dollars to to like physically. re-engineer these islands and build. those walls, and they didn't have that. kind of dough. So, China stepped up and. said, "Hey, uh you got that that marine. protected zone where you're don't allow. fishing. Give us those fishing rights.". So, this is just sort of a good another. good example of the um domino effect. that can happen. All of a sudden, you're. wrecking that part of the the sea. Uh. because it was a protected zone that's. no longer protected because China said, "Hey, we'll help you re-engineer those.

islands if you let us fish there." Uh. but they only ended up giving a fraction. of the cost of what's needed. Uh I think. New Zealand is also stepping up, right? Well, they tried to they created a new. visa specifically for residents of. places like Kiraabati who are like, "We. need to get out now." And New Zealand. very kindly was like, "You guys can come. live here. We're going to make it as. easy as possible on you." And the people. of Kiraabati just gave them crickets. back. Yeah. In New Zealand within six. months, like cancelled the program. because they had basically no takers.

they did not need the special visa. because people again don't want to move. if there's any chance of them not having. to move. I get it. You know, I I totally. get it as well for sure. And I mean, if. you if you put yourself in that mindset, it suddenly is like, okay, I kind of get. why people keep moving back after their. house burns down from a wildfire or gets. blown away by a hurricane or gets like. picked up by a tornado. that's where you. live and it just hasn't I feel like it. just hasn't gotten quite frequent enough.

for people at least let's say in the. United States it's my frame of reference. to just be like okay this is not going. to change it's going to keep getting. worse we need to we need to leave yeah I. mean I think people are of two minds. here and it seems like there are way. more people that are are so attached to. their home they don't want to leave it. uh but there you know I've heard just. anecdotally stories to people that are. like, "I'm getting the heck out of. California or I'm getting the heck out. of uh a hurricane, you know, prone area.

like the the the you know, if you live. around the Gulf of Mexico or something. like that, uh in those panhandly areas, uh or in like Houston or Miami, you. know, we're getting out of dodge." So, some people are doing that, but it it. definitely doesn't seem like, you know, people are taking it seriously enough. yet. What's nuts though is if you go to. Miami today, their skyline is covered. with construction cranes. They cannot.

build skyscrapers for housing fast. enough because so many people are still. moving to Miami. And um I say we take a. break and come back and talk about. what's going to happen to cities in the. US as far as climate migration is. [Music]. concerned. Learning things with Chuck. and. Josh. Stuff you should. [Music].

know. Okay, Chuck. So, I uh name checked. Miami um before the break, and uh that. is a really good example of a city that. is kind of up in the air for how much. climate migration is going to affect it. Is it going to get so bad down there.

that they're just gonna have to abandon. Miami and it'll look like um a reverse. the day after tomorrow, but with heat. and and seawater rather than everything. being frozen, which by the way, I saw. that the other day for the first time. No, it's actually one of my favorite. movies, it turns out, because every. single time it's on, I will just sit. there and watch it. Oh, did I see that. all the way? I think I might have seen. that all the way through back when it. came out, but that was it. Yeah, I I I.

hesitate to use the word good because. it's great. Um, but it's it Yeah, I just. like it. It's one of those really It's. like Zodiac. I can watch Zodiac anytime. it comes on. Like I might not search it. out, but I'll just sit there and watch. it if it's, you know, presented to me. somehow. No, I'm the same way. There's. something about Zodiac that is just. endlessly watchable to me. Yeah, for. sure. But The Day After Tomorrow, it's. like that for me. Okay. Well, you know. what? I should check it out again. Oh, and I think I have a good reason to. coming up. Hint hint. Yeah, that's. actually what triggered that idea. Oh,

okay. Uh, you and me just talking about something. that only you and I know about. I know. You know, uh, I have a couple of stats. as far as the United States goes. Um, this is at this point already here in. 2025. Two or three million Americans. leave their homes every year. Every. single year. two to three million due to. natural disasters that happen. Floods, earthquakes, fires, hurricanes, all the. stuff that happens here. I don't we.

don't have volcanoes. That's not the. That's not the ones. Um Well, there's. Mount St. Helens. That was a big deal. Oh, yeah. Yeah, true. But generally in. the lower 48, we don't have volcanoes, right? So that 2 to three million. number, those are people who move. permanently, right? That's not just. people who like leave and then come. back. No, no, no. Those are most of. those people do return but um over the. past couple of decades about 3 million. people have moved just to avoid flooding.

which is a long period of time but those. are people that are just like yeah I it. just this place floods. I mean I. remember after Katrina I feel like. Atlanta. got a pretty decent amount of of. displaced uh New Orleans residents that. stayed here. I I have evidence by going. to Falcons games. Right. So so did. Houston too. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, that's. a great example of that kind of thing. happening. And like I I'm sure a lot of. them went back when it was clear that. New Orleans was going to be rebuilt and.

revitalized and get back to normal. Um, but a lot of them stayed. I'm sure a lot. of them were like, "Things don't flood. quite as much here in Atlanta, so I'm. going to just kind of stay here." Yeah. And Atlanta, I mean, New Orleans is. certainly such a singular unique city in. America culturally, like maybe more so. than almost any city I've been to. Uh, so Atlanta is not that, but it's another. big city in the South that I think is at. least relatable to somebody from New. Orleans in some ways. For sure. Yeah. There's like 98% less brass bands.

marching around, but you know, there's. still a a certain amount of like. southern affinity between the two. cities, right? Yeah. For like big. cities. So sea level rise is going to. affect the US, but I didn't know this. See there's like you know they talk. about sea level rise you know being like. 0.1 millimeter a year or something like. that or they're predicting that's the. global average sea level rises in. different places at different rates and. it can be so local that apparently the.

eastern seabboard of the United States. is that sea level is rising faster than. the west coast it can be that local and. the reason why is there's something. called postglacial rebound. where the top part of the eastern. seabboard like New York all that area. was pressed down by a glacier and after. the glacier retreated 10,000 or so years. ago um that it that part of the land is. still moving up. It's coming back. It's.

rebounding but at the same time that's. kind of pushing down like a seessaw the. southern part of the eastern seabboard. So that's actually um the sea levels are. rising faster there than even in the. northern part of the eastern seabboard. It's crazy. Yeah. Uh and you know that's. just sea level rise and this isn't a I I. am reticent to do episodes sometimes. where we're just like you know slinging. fear and statistics, right? But it it's. sort of the reality right now. Uh. wildfire threat has just gotten worse.

Uh especially if you're talking about um. Nevada and Oregon, places that uh maybe. didn't see the most wildfire in the. past. Uh, and it's not just Miami as far. as sea level rise, like New York and. Boston. Um, I mean, New York has seen. flooding in, you know, the not too. distant past where we never used to see. things like that happening there. I saw. that some of the communities, the houses. along Jamaica Bay, which I guess is. Queens, right? Yeah. They flood every. time there's at high tide there's a full.

moon. Like just flood. Their entire. basement just totally flooded. and it's. starting to happen every single time. there's a full moon at high tide. So. yeah, I was reading like they're on the. the forefront of talking about climate. migration in the US. Well, the other. thing too that we've mentioned early, we. haven't talked so much since then is. it's not necessarily a uh a climate. event or some natural disaster either to. to cause climate migration. And it's.

like farmers if they can't farm there. anymore and their livelihood is gone, they might move. And across the south. and southwest, especially in Texas, um. the projections for corn and soy are. just falling, falling, falling. So, uh. you're going to be able to grow that. easier in other parts of the country. So, that's a bit of a silver lining as. things, you know, change and shift. But. those are going to eventually be climate. migrants, those farmers there. Yeah. And. so it seems like the projections show.

that 2050, 2070, the current climate. that spreads across the United States is. going to shift northward by a few. states. And those states that are. currently hot right now, but still, you. know, kind of nice, like Florida, coastal Georgia, they're going to. potentially become uninhabitable just. because it's going to be so hot. So, it. turns out I was right about the Middle. East and North America becoming so hot. that it can be uninhabitable. And um. apparently that's that's due to what's.

called the wet bulb temperature, which. is a mind-boggling formula that barely. anyone on the internet can explain. And. I can't throw sling arrows because I. can't really explain it either. But. essentially, it's the temperature where. you your body will no longer be able to. cool itself. And so being outside in the. sun, just standing there is actually. life-threatening. Yeah. They're saying. that it's going to become the norm for. say like Florida and southern Georgia to.

hit those temperatures and so we're the. people are just going to have to move. because you wouldn't be able to leave. your house and even go outside. Do you. remember when we were tasked with doing. a panel at a podcast movement uh that's. the name of the industry conference I. guess? Yeah. Con in the parliament. But. it's like an industry conference and we. were supposed to speak in like 10. minutes on stage and some and a fire. alarm or something went out. Oh yeah.

And they made us go outside and it was 2. minutes in the Orlando summer heat after. it had stopped raining. One of those. afternoon Florida rains, right? That. everywhere on elsewhere on Earth that. that cools things down, but it makes. things hotter in Central Florida. Yeah. And we went outside and had to stand out. there for like 20 minutes before they. let us back in. And dude, I'm a hot, sweaty person. Anyway, I have never. sweated that much that fast in my life. Yeah, I was dying. And they were like,

"All right, back in everybody and hop on. stage, right?" I remember that. I was. pretty sweaty, too. Oh, man. I was uh in. bad shape. It was not good. Just wait. till 2070, pal. You'd just melt. Podcast. movement. Right. Right here we are. So, um, the US is actually a good example of. people not freaking out. Some people. freaking out, but it seems mostly like. it's the media just kind of poking and. gooseing everybody that among scholars.

who study this, they're not particularly. freaked out. They're like, "Yes, some. people are going to have to move. Yes, it's going to really start to pick up. eventually, but there will also be. mitigation efforts that we can do. like. we're Miami is just too valuable to just. let go away. So, they're going to figure. out how to build seaw walls. Yeah. Protect Miami and make sure that it's. aquafer doesn't get salinated and. ruined. Um like we're people will just. pump money into Miami. The US government.

will, Florida will. But if you go like a. little. north, you know, who's to say that um uh. Delray Beach or Vero Beach is going to. be around still at that time, right? The. cities will be protected, but the. smaller towns in between the major. cities on the coast, there's not going. to be any money for them. So, those. people are going to have to move. Yeah. And I mean that kind of puts things. squarely in the middle of the policy. debates we're hearing more and more,

which is how much do we put into places. that we think are increasingly unlivable. in the future? Uh, this is something I. did not know, and I'm glad Livia dug. this up, but FEMA, the Federal Emergency. Management Agency, uh, has been buying. up properties that are prone to this, that are just flooding time and time. again, and they're turning this land. into wetland and trying to do something. about it. And you know, there are are. various states that are saying like, "Hey, you know, uh it's getting harder.

and harder to get your house insured. against fire. We used to subsidize these. insurance companies. Now we're not doing. that." I have friends in California. Like if you buy a house in certain parts. of California, sometimes you cannot even. get insurance anymore, right? The same. is true in parts of Florida, too. it's. really becoming a big problem to get. even get insurance rather let alone like. being able to afford an insurance. policy. And as that happens, as it. becomes more and more apparent that if. you move to Florida or you move to.

California, there's this huge additional. expense or potentially you might not be. able to have home insurance, right? um. like that's going to affect those. markets and that in and of itself is. going to keep people from migrating. there and it's going to also that's what. will trigger mass migrations from. Florida from California because people. are going to start panicking about their. real estate values just plummeting. Yeah. A lot of people will get out. People of means will get out. Yes. And.

that's a really important point. It. doesn't matter what country you're. talking about. Whether it's global. north, global south, doesn't matter. the the I the ability to migrate is. typically something reserved for the. more welloff groups or to migrate. successfully. Right. Okay. Great. Yeah. The the poorest, the most vulnerable. people in no matter whatever country. you're you're talking about, those are. the ones who are at the greatest risk of.

just getting left behind. They don't. have the money to move. They don't. they're they can't sell their house now. because no one wants to buy it because. it's basically valueless and they're. stuck in this place that everyone else. who could migrated out of. That is going. to be a really big uh thing to watch. for. Those people are going to need. help. They're human beings. They didn't. ask for this. That's just the how the. how the dice landed. So, they deserve to. be helped again just because they're. humans, just because they're Americans,

just because they're Zimbabweans, it. doesn't matter. That's going to be. something to to really pay attention to. down the road. Boy, what kind of world. would we be in, my friend, if the. qualification for aid to others was. fellow human and not drawn by boundaries. and ideologies. I hope that that's I. mean, my hope is that someday we'll. we'll hit that point. I don't know if. we'll still be alive or not, but I do. hope that I do think people will get. there if we survive as as species. I.

mean plenty of great organizations are. have been doing that since the jump but. I'm talking about major governments in. the world looking at other humans as you. know other humans or even societies too. you know I mean yeah I mean that's. just everywhere in the world there's so. many pockets of just conflict and issues. and and hatred of of people for event. ultimately like arbitrary reasons. the idea of Yeah. getting to that point,

Chuck. It's just It's titillating to me. I'm titillated right. now. I think that's it for now. Huh. It's got to be. Well, we we'll revisit. this in 20150. All right. All right. Well, since Chuck agreed to revisiting. this episode in 2050, everybody, that. means it's time for a listener mail. Uh followup from a backyard chicken. farmer about egg colors. Uh, hey, I've. listened to you goofballs for years. So.

much love to you and your gang. Uh, yes, please support your local farmers. With. their truly humanely raised eggs. costing, in many cases less in. storebought, like Chuck said, uh, you're. getting an amazing deal for higher. quality eggs. Uh, number two, guys, the. waxy coating uh is called a bloom. Uh, it's a naturally produced coating which. is not hard or thick that is placed as a. part of the laying process to protect. the egg contents from bacteria. I. believe Josh said that comes off easily. with just a little bit of Dawn. And. number three, please do not use dish.

soap to wash your eggs. Oh yeah. Uh. while eggshells are strong, they're not. in permeable. Uh eggs need to be washed. with just water or water and an egg safe. cleaner at a temperature about 20°. higher, right? But no more than that cuz. you can cook the egg on the inside. Oh, that makes sense. Uh 20° higher than the. temperature of the egg interior. Washing. an egg at too high will potentially cook. it. wash at a temperature lower uh than. the shell contents and the permeable. nature of the shell will actually absorb. the exterior contents so you're eating.

whatever soap that you are using. Well, not Dawn. It says on the label egg safe. cleaner. Uh this knowledge is gained from keeping. my own backyard flock for over a decade. And that is from the wonderful Meg. Thanks a lot, Meg. That was a top-notch. email. We appreciate it. Uh, and thank. you for saving everybody who was about. to wash their eggs with dish soap under. my. suggestion. Uh, if you want to be like. me and get in touch with us and be like, "Oh, no, no, no. Here's what you really. should do." We love those kind of.

emails. You can send it off to. [Music]. stuffodcast.com. Stuff You Should Know. is a production of iHeart Radio. For. more podcasts, iMheart Radio, visit the. iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or. wherever you listen to your favorite. shows. [Music].