How Boycotts Work (Or Do They?) | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh, and there's Chuck, and it's just. the two of us. And we are doing an. episode on boycots today because boy, do. boycotts really stick in your craw. There's a lot of them. They seem to be. overused in this era. And I wanted to. see how the whole thing worked just from.

watching them happen over and over. again. >> Yeah. Well, you know, Webster defines a. boycott as a collective act of refusal. >> Yeah. >> So does Dave, who helped us with this, but um you know what we're talking. about, right? That's when people get. together. Uh these days usually it's a. call on social media or something and. they say, "Hey, we're not going to buy. this thing from your store or we're not. going to buy anything from your store or. we're not going to buy anything from. your company or we're not going to buy. anything from your state or country.

because we want to hit your bottom line, hit you in the wallet, as they say. >> To get you to change.". >> Yeah. I mean, to get you to change or I. think in some people's cases these days. just to be mean and because I hate what. you stand for. >> Yeah. So, I don't I want to say I'm not. poo pooing the entire concept of. boycots. What I'm what I was taking. issue with is just how fast and loose. they come over and over that if you. really followed every boycott like you. would starve to death. There'd be. nowhere you could buy food any longer,

let alone anything else. >> Well, yeah. And can I quickly say also. that these sort of so many calls for. these boycotts in social media, they're. also I feel like a lot of times like. just not thought out and that like you. you're boycotting this one thing, but. the same company owns this other thing. that you like and it they just seem to. be kind of the dumb version of boycots. >> Yeah. Well, they're very knee-jerk. They're not very organized and they're. just emotionally driven. All boycots. have some level of emotion to them.

driving them, >> but there's also supposed to be a lot. more to them if you're going to make it. successful. >> Yeah. And we're going to cover all that. stuff. >> But also, one more thing, Chuck, I am. also not poo pooing anybody caring about. something. That's great. I will always. promote somebody caring about something. that's important to you. And a lot of. people show that they care by joining in. on boycots or maybe even starting. boycotts. >> Yeah. I mean, you're known as the guy. who cares. Who's been calling me that? >> The public at large. I think that's your.

nickname on Reddit. >> The boy who cares and the best allaround. boy. >> Oh man, look at that. Match made in. heaven. >> The barb. The BHC and the barb. >> I love it. >> So, let's start talking about boycotss. because like I said, I was curious in in. how they worked. Um, we asked David to. help us with them and what I didn't know. right out of the gate is that boycott is. somebody's last name. The first guy who. ever on record got boycotted was named. Charles Cunningham boycott. >> Yeah, that seems like something we would.

make up as a bit. >> Yeah, >> but it's actually totally true. He was. an Englishman uh living in Ireland in. County Mayo and he was a a rent. collector specifically uh would collect. rent for absentee British landlords from. Irish tenant farmers who were having a. very rough time in 1879. down on their. luck, as you'd put it. They there was a. um terrible famine. This is after the. great Irish potato famine, but this one. wasn't so wonderful either. And so these.

farmers were not exactly looking forward. to being evicted for being behind on. rent. And boycott apparently seems to be. one of those people who had like you. just follow the rules. You're the one. who's not paying your rent, so get out. Um and this the Irish people in County. Mayo decided to do something about it. They formed an organization called the. Land League and they were agitating for. fairer rents. They were agitating for an. end to evictions and Charles Boycott. just kept evicting people. So they're. like, "We've got to try something else.

What can we do? Let's do everything we. can to ruin Charles Boycott's life.". >> Yeah. And if there was only a name for. this kind of action, >> they're like, "We'll get to that later.". >> Yeah. But we can't think of one. So, uh, later in a letter to the Times of. London, uh, Boycott basically kind of. summarized what they had been doing. And. we're not going to read all this word. for word, but, you know, they they. really screwed with his business. He. said, you know, they collected in crowds. on his farm. They, you know, would. harass him at his house. They threatened.

people that worked for him, like his. blacksmith apparently got a letter. threatening him with murder if he did. any more work for him. They threatened. his laress to stop washing his clothes. and he couldn't get anybody to do any. kind of work for him basically and. ruined his business. It became a big. story like not just there but um kind of. internationally the British uh. newspapers picked it up. The British. newspapers also raised funds to send 50. Northern Irish loyalists to harvest his. potato crop because he couldn't get.

anyone to do it. >> because they were afraid they'd get, you. know, physically beaten or harassed. And. uh they were protected by British troops. and apparently by one account it cost. £10,000 to harvest 500 lb worth of. potatoes. >> Mhm. >> from those Northern Irish loyalists. >> I did some conversions. >> Let's hear it. >> So if they spent£10,000. sterling to to harvest these potatoes, they spent a million pound sterling or. $1.4 $4 million in today's money to.

harvest 52,000 pound sterling or $70,000. worth of potatoes. Isn't that insane? That really just. drives it home. That's why I do those. conversions. >> Yeah, >> cuz I want to drive it home how nuts. that was. >> Totally nuts. He left Ireland, boycott. did in disgrace. Uh it was a very. successful challenge to his authority. Can't call it a boycott yet, but you. could very soon because uh American. journalist James Redpath said, "You know. what? The first person who used that as.

a verb was a local priest, believe it or. not, his name was Father Ali, who said. uh I believe he they he suggested the. land league try the same thing on. another landlord named Brown. And he. said, "Let's do what they did to. boycott. Let's do a boycott on this. Brown. That's what we're going to do. We're going to boycott Brown." See the. word is a verb. It's boycott. You. understand? That was a great father Ali. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. And so, uh, just by covering.

Father Ali using it as a verb, writing. about these new boycots, James Red Path, who appears to have been a. contemporarian. um, journalist to this time, he kind of. helped generate this idea that you could. actually get stuff done by boycotting. people. Check this out. And so I think. in the next year there were more than a. thousand boycots in Ireland without. social media. >> Yeah, there were a thousand boycotts and.

that means Father Ali a 100,000 times. said, "Remember, it's called. boycottton.". >> That's That is so good. We're going to. get two emails from people who aren't. even Irish that are mad at us for doing. that. Yeah. >> And then 15 emails from people from. Ireland who are like, "That was. hilarious, Chuck.". >> Totally. >> That's how it goes. >> Yeah. And maybe one from Father a Father. Ali because I know there's a bunch of. them. So. >> I was going to say that doesn't narrow. it down at all. >> Yeah.

>> So um yeah, that's where the that's. where the whole boycott got started in. County Mayo, Ireland. And since then, people have studied these things and. have really kind of gotten down to. almost the science what it would take to. make a boycott effective. And there have. been a lot of effective boycotts over. the years. We're going to talk about. some of them, but to just kind of pull. apart the nuts and the bolts. There's. just a handful of things that you really. have to do just right and then sprinkle. it with a little bit of luck and you.

could have an effective boycott on your. hands. I think you meant just a little. bit of luck. >> Yeah, a little bit of leprechaun dust, right? >> Yeah, for sure. These are uh the one, two, three, four, five, six things you. need to do if you you know, you can. boycott your day away, but if you want. to really be effective, these there at. least I'd say probably four out of six. of these need to be around. >> Yeah. Six steps to ruining targets. market share. >> You got to have a clear goal in mind,

which means you you have an outcome in. mind, basically. >> Mhm. uh you want a narrow target. So you. want to either target like a very narrow. like a product or just a single company. >> That's why sometimes when I think about. like yeah you're targeting this company. but like the parent company isn't. targeted. I don't know. That's where it. can get a little messy I think. >> Yeah. And poor targets like can you guys. stop using the word target when you're. talking about boy tots? Uh there's also. awareness and education because your. your goal here is to not only get them.

to change whatever they're doing, but to. bring awareness and educate people in. whatever you feel like they're doing. wrong is. >> Well, plus also the more support you. have, the better off you are. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good point. >> Uh you also want to reach core. customers. This is a very important. point. >> Yeah. They turned up an expert in. boycots and studying boycotts who said. essentially if you have a bunch of PETA. members who are boycotting Kentucky. Fried Chicken. Like that's not going to. have much of an effect because none of. those PETA members were ever buying. Kentucky Fried Chicken in the first. place. And yeah, maybe you could.

generate some public sympathy, but. you're not getting to their core. customers necessarily. >> Yeah. >> And that's what makes it effective. What. else? >> Yeah. Uh there's sustain uh there's. substitutability. This is a big one. because um if you can very easily switch. to another brand of whatever then it's. going to make your boycott far more. effective. Like. >> if and you know we'll get to other. examples later but like you know with. the big Bud Light boycott was a very big. one we're going to cover later. It was.

really easy for the people who wanted to. boycott Bud Light to switch to another. like inexpensive light beer. So that. that was a pretty effective boycott. because it's like super easy. Yeah, I'll. just drink Miller Light or whatever, >> right? or I'll go to churches or. Popeye's rather than Kentucky Fried. Chicken. >> Exactly. >> Uh and then also like if you want a um a. successful boycott, you have to really. like nail in that that bottom line. You. really got to hurt the company. financially, if you want to make them at.

least start listening to you, if not. actually enact the change that you're. looking for. And you know in times past. essentially pre-social media era that. was the one measure of boycotts that is. how you got a company to respond. You. started really affecting either their. sales or their stock price and more more. often than not their stock price. Nowadays, because of social media, bad. press can spread so fast and so far and. so wide that just getting like negative.

press can actually make large. corporations or organizations change. their stance on something or make them. drop their stance in total. >> Yeah, for sure. That's a very good. point. It's a little bit different ball. game these days. Should we take our. break? >> Yeah. >> All right, we'll take a break. We'll be. right back to, as promised, talk about. some of the most famous boycotts. throughout history.

[Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. All. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. right, we're back and as promised, we're. going to take you on a little walk. through the history of boycotts. And we. got to start with colonial era because.

they were good at it. A lot of times. they were boycotting a an act that was. passed by the British that they did not. like over here in the new colonies. Um. they had some pretty wicked branding uh. with slogans like no taxation without. representation. They were pretty good at. that kind of thing. Um and the first one. we're going to talk about is uh 1765. I. know we've talked about, you know, all. these kind of here and there in the life. of the show, but the Stamp Act was. passed in ' 65, uh, which was a tax on.

paper goods and documents and things. like that. And the, uh, merchants in. Boston and New York said, "Nope, we're. going to sign a nonimportation agreement. and we're not going to import goods from. England anymore." And it worked. About a. year later, Parliament repealed the. Stamp Act. >> Yeah. First, uh, first boycott and the. we should say the American colonies. I. could see our Australian and New Zealand. listeners be like, I don't remember any. of this what you're talking about. >> Lots of colonies. >> This happened in the American colonies, right? >> That's right. >> Shortly after that, so Parliament's.

trying to to pay for the Seven Years. War, the French Indian War is what the. American colonists called it. So they. they were then now directly taxing the. American colonies and they followed up. with the Stamp Act with the Townsen. Revenue Act um in 1767. It texted a bunch of different stuff. The colonists organized a bunch of. protests and boycots again and. parliament responded and they repealed. the towns act three years later but they. kept one part of it. They kept a tax on.

tea. Everyone loved tea in the American. colonies as I'm sure in Australia and. New Zealand too at the time. So it was a. big deal to have this big tax on tea and. so the American colonists said, "Well, we're not going to drink British tea.". and the in parliament said, "Oh yeah, well get this. We're going to give the. East India Company. basically free reign on on selling below. cost for tea." So that even with this. tax, it's going to cost you less for tea. than buying the smuggled illegal tea.

that that normally is cheaper with the. tax, right? So some merchants were like, "That sounds kind of good to me. I can. make more money." And the uh people here. in the American colonies, we call the. patriots, the founding fathers, said nay. to that. And that actually led to the. Boston Tea Party. >> Yeah. The Sons of Liberty said, "No. thanks. We're going to dump your tea in. the Hava.". >> Wow. Man, you are killing it today. All. over the place. >> And that's what they did. Uh in 1774,

the first Continental Congress passed a. colonywide ban on all trade with. Britain. And that was the beginning of. what would become a war. >> Yeah. It worked then, it worked later. And I mean, be they didn't have a name. for this because this was before the. county mayo boycotts and Charles. boycott, but they were like, this. unnamed thing that we're doing, it. really kind of works. And so it inspired. other other groups that came along in. America over the course of the coming.

centuries, especially if you were part. of a civil rights organization, boycott prove very effective. They are. really worthwhile to do because most of. the time if you're agitating for civil. rights, you have a a group of true. believers who are willing to actually. work at this. And one of the first. groups uh fighting for civil rights in. the United States were the Quakers, Quaker abolitionists. And they formed. something called the free produce mo.

movement. >> Yeah. This was in the 1840s through the. Civil War basically. And they boycotted. goods made by enslaved people. Cotton of. course being one of the keys there. And. as far as they were concerned like hey. if you're you're buying this stuff. you're supporting slavery. So. >> the free produce movement movement sort. of tackled that. Another obvious example. as far as civil rights go uh is the. great uh Montgomery bus boycott which we. covered in detail in our episode from. February 2018. Rosa Parks colon Asian of.

change. So you can go listen to that. episode for the the full rundown of the. Montgomery bus boycott. But that was uh. a couple of highlights for me was uh the. fact that before Rosa Parks came along. Uh I always want a chance to shout out. 15-year-old Claudet Coven. >> uh who in March 1955 refused to move so. a white passenger could take her seat. Uh she was also yanked off the bus and. arrested by the cops, but they would end. up rallying around Rosa Parks instead uh. about nine months later. Uh, and then.

the other thing I just wanted to. highlight, and again, you should listen. to that episode because it's it's really. in-depth, but um was that the black. community rallied around each other in. like a big way. Like black taxi drivers. would charge the same fair as the bus. fair would be. Um, they had volunteers. organizing car pools. They had uh shoe. drives because people were walking so. much they were wearing their shoes out. to like get people in fresh shoes. And. it's a really beautiful moment in. American history. >> Yeah. And it was a real struggle for. them because this is how black people in.

Montgomery largely got around was the. bus. So to give that up was a big deal. And it was a successful boycott. It. lasted 382 days until the Supreme Court. ruled that um segregation on buses was. unconstitutional. If your boycott leads. to a Supreme Court ruling that what. you're fighting against is. unconstitutional, that is a successful. boycott. >> Yeah, for sure. And then the one other. thing about the Montgomery bus boycott. is that it directly inspired another. boycott a few years later that involved.

the United Farm Workers, grape growers. or grape harvesters I should say that. was led by Caesar Chavez. And I mean he. he one of the things that he did that. also makes um boycott successful that we. talked about was educating the public. They created bumper stickers that said. Uvas no grapes. They told people what. was going on and they got public support. that really helped this these boycots. really helped put the pressure on the. grape growers to give the grape. harvesters better working conditions.

>> Can we talk about apartheid? >> I think we should. So apartheid was a. was segregation in South Africa. It was. their version of legal segregation of. their people of the white minority and. the black majority in South Africa. And. it was around since 1948 through. >> basically the mid90s to when it finally. dissolved. I think was like '94. >> And the repeal of apartheid is partially. credited to international pressure uh.

boycots, sanctions, devestment. >> And little Stevie Vanzant. >> Yeah. And little Stevie Vanzant. We'll. get to him in a sec. But um the uh. non-violent protests were a big part of. it led by the African National Congress. Nelson Mandela was one of the leaders in. the ANC. So in 1959, ANC President. Albert uh Luthuli said, uh, "Hey, um, Great Britain, why don't you boycott all. South American produce, all South. African produce?" The first time they. kind of reached out internationally for.

for help like that. And so South Africa. said, "You know what? Um, we're. outlawing the ANC and Nelson Mandela, you're going to jail.". >> Yeah. For Yeah. For suggesting a. boycott. not even staging a boycott but. suggesting one. The UN got involved in. 1962 and they were like, "Hey guys, this. is not okay. We all you or you guys need. to start breaking ties with South. Africa." And everybody said nuts to. that. And it took a bunch of different. sports organizations to finally get the.

public aware of it and hence getting. governments involved in doing something. about dismantling apartheid by turning. their backs on South Africa. And the. first sports organization to cut ties. without South Africa in protest of its. apartheid policies was the International. Table Tennis Federation who did so all. the way back in 1956. >> Pretty great. Yeah, I love that. In '. 64, the IOC committee said no South. African teams can participate in the. Olympics. >> Yeah. >> And that was a ban that lasted from 64.

to 92. So very long-standing. There were. boycots in Britain when South African. cricket and rugby teams would tour. there. >> Yeah, there was a very famous battle for. Swansea, I think, uh, where there was. like a rugby protest that the cops and. some hooligans started beating up and it. just became a huge thing and made. international news too. >> Yeah. I mean, I remember all this stuff. growing up in the 80s. It was all over. the news. You couldn't like you couldn't. like go 10 minutes without hearing the. word apartheid or anti-apartid. I mean,

I knew the president of South Africa's. name as like a 10year-old because. >> what was it? >> FW D Clerk. >> Oh, you're like, I knew it at 10. I. don't know it now. >> No, I'm almost positive that that's who. it was. >> I remember the clerk. Yeah, >> I learned about it from Mad Magazine. >> Of course. >> Yeah. Uh the 80s is also when you got. college kids involved and that you know. if you want to. >> uh get college kids on your side. That's. a pretty smart thing to do because they. got nothing else to do except take like.

couple of classes a day maybe. >> And so they got together um started u. their uh activism on campus. >> and more than 150 US colleges divested. from South Africa. So they uh withdrew. investments in South African companies. as uh institutions as a whole. Uh there. was a a UN cultural boycott and part of. that ended up being something that. started in 85 called the artist united. against apartheid founded by little. Steven Vanzant of the East Street band. >> and a producer named Arthur Baker who.

organized a song Sun City and an album. Sun City because Sun City was a luxury. resort and casino in South Africa that. had a lot of big-time concerts and the. song basically was I ain't going to play. Sun City and it was a you know it was. sort of on the heels of We Are the. World, but this one was different. because they, you know, there there were. certainly black artists on We Are the. World, but not uh rap and hiphop. >> Yeah. >> And Sun City had Bono, of course, and.

Bob Dylan and Ringo and Bruce, of. course, Pat Benitar, George Clinton, uh. Joey Raone, and a very weird appearance. Uh Hall and Oats, but not together. They. were very much separated. >> That is so sad to me. >> Uh Lou Reed also had a very funny. appearance. Bonnie Rate, but you also. had Run DMC and Cool Mod D, the Fat. Boys, DJ Cool Herk, Grandmaster Melly. Mill, uh Jimmy Cliff was in there. So, it really blended genres in a way that. We Are the World uh did not. And it's a.

pretty good song. I think it very 80s. >> It's definitely worth seeing the video. for sure. >> Yeah, it's pretty cool. Well, I think. they ended up raising like a million. bucks. So, not a lot of money, but. awareness was probably one of the. biggest things because a lot of artists. would not play Sun City, but artists did. very famously. There's a list. The Beach. Boys did, Sher did, Linda Ronstat did, Sinatra did, Liza Minnelli, Rod Stewart, very disappointingly, Elton John Queen, and Dolly Parton all played Sun City. >> and Dolly. Oh, say.

>> it was fairly heartbreaking to read. that. >> Yeah, because this wasn't like a oh, I. hadn't heard kind of thing. This was. like, I don't care enough. I'm going to. go to Sun City. This they're paying me a. bunch of money to go to this one. >> concert date that I could easily cancel, you know? >> Yeah, agreed. Supposedly, I'm not even. going to say in their defense because I. don't really know what they were. thinking, but supposedly they were told. by the people at Sun City like, "Hey, there's an exception for us and we can. actually have a segregated audience, so.

like you should come play." So, I don't. know if that's the guys they did it. under or not. That's the list. >> Yeah. So, um Yeah. So, this is a big. deal. Like sports, entertainment, that's. a really good way to get your boycott. spread far and wide because that's what. the average person is paying attention. to more than like the news or foreign. policy. They're like, "Wait a minute, why is Cool Mod not going to South. Africa? I should probably look into. that." And so, um, when you get people. into it, things actually happen, right?

There was a a the US Congress passed the. comprehensive anti-apartite act and it. was one of the more punitive sanctions. packages that America has ever dealt. against any country and Ronald Reagan. even vetoed it and Congress overrode his. veto. It was the first time in 13 years. that Congress had overridden a. presidential veto and they said no this. is getting passed. And so it did get. passed and you know you might be like. wow that was brave and assertive of. Congress. They must really have cared.

about um dismantling apartheid and I'm. sure some of them did but I think what. it says more than anything is just how. far and wide America was anti-aparid by. this time that Congress is like. >> we're going to override a presidential. veto of the most popular president. America's had in recent history because. all of our cons constituents are like go. do that. Yeah, because they read about cool mod. they wouldn't have it. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And you know a lot of times when.

the US does something the world follows. back then at least and once the US put. their sanctions in place other countries. came aboard in Europe and Asia and a lot. of economic pressure was put on South. Africa and Mandela was eventually the. Berlin wall fell in '89 which basically. said South Africa is not like a a. protection against communism in Africa. now. Um no need for that. Mandela was. freed in 90 and then over the next four. years it was kind of little by little. dismantled. I think finally in 94 was. when it was officially over.

>> So that was successful I would say for. sure. There was another one that was. pretty successful that was much more. recent back in 2016 uh in North Carolina. they passed the public facilities. privacy and security act much more well. known as the bathroom bill which. basically said that in North Carolina. you have to use a public restroom for. the sex that you were assigned at birth. So essentially it was like trans people. you can't use public restrooms that you. identify with. People called it. mean-spirited evil. It was anti-trans.

It was an attack on a group of people. And it really uh it it kind of took off. It became one of the first really viral. boycots uh on social media back in 2016. It had a huge effect. >> Yeah. And this was one where hitting in. the wallet was a big deal because. corporations got involved. PayPal. canceled plans to build an office in. Charlotte. Uh, you know, entertainers. got involved. Of course, Springsteen as. always. The boss wouldn't play in uh Sun. City or Greensboro. >> Ain't going to play Greensboro.

>> And then, of course, a lot of other. bands said, "What the boss does, we we. follow." Movie studios pulled out, which. hit them in the uh financial pocketbook, of course, said we're not going to shoot. there. Sports again gets involved. The. NCAA moved several different college. championships out of North Carolina. Uh, the NBA threatened to pull the All-Star. weekend out of Charlotte. >> They followed through, too. They moved. it to New Orleans that year. >> Yeah. So, all this told cost the state. of North Carolina $3.76 billion in the.

year that that bill was around. They. repealed it in 2017. >> Ma'am, that's crazy. That's a lot of. money to lose in just a year, Chuck. >> And that's why it was effective. >> Uh, so you want to take a break and come. back and talk about whether social media. boycotts are effective? >> Let's do it. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].

[Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. Okay, so we're back And we have entered. a brand new age of boycott thanks to. social media. It is really easy to start. a boycott, for a boycott to go viral and. then for the news to report on boycots. and how they did. It's almost like um a.

spectator sport to a certain extent. Oh, here's this new boycott. How'd it do two. months on? I saw an article on Newsweek. and the title was here are the. corporations being boycotted in June. It's just become that like pedestrian. >> Yeah. I mean, we should read this one. stat. Uh, there's one study that found. that 54% of top brands, more than half, have been boycotted. >> And 42% of multinational corporations. And we're not saying like poor. multinational corporations, but just.

sort of driving home the point like you. were saying that uh I mean, you said, you know, two months later, see how it's. doing. Two months later, people might be. like, "Oh, are we boycotting that?". >> Still, I thought that was done. I. thought we've moved on. >> Which is kind of the one of the problems. with the social media boycotts. It is. because with social media, I mean, by. definition, it's your attention span is. just careening from place to place. constantly, it's really hard to stop and. focus. And that's a big thing that that. boycots require is focus, dedication,

organization, growth. >> when you know two Yeah. When threearters. of the people who were boycotting with. you the first week moved on to something. else, your boycott's hurting, right? But. that is not to say that boycots starting. on social media aren't effective. Uh and. there's a couple in very recent memory. that you can use to show how what's. effective and what isn't effective. because that's what people like to do. with boycots these days. Talk about. that. >> Yeah. And we should also point out.

you're going to hear another word in in. describing these things. Uh it's a word. boycott. Uh and that is the counter to. boycott when because most of these are. are political in nature obviously hot. button issues and evenly sort of divided. because the United States is pretty much. evenly divided at this point politically. >> down to a guiding Eugene who votes twice. for one for each party just to be fair. That's how divided America is. >> Yeah. So when there is a boycott, there. is also generally a bucot when the other.

part of the country says, "Oh yeah, well. I'm going to buy that thing because you. don't want to buy that thing, >> right? >> Because we like what they're saying." So. Goya is a very popular Hispanic food. brand here in the US. >> Great black beans. I love those Goya. black beans. >> Gracias Goya. >> That's right. In 2020, it was big news. when the CEO of Goya uh attended an. event at the White House and was. praising Donald Trump and a lot of. people got upset about that and. Democratic Representative Alexandria.

Accassiocortez said, "Hey, we need to. boycott Goya." And it turns out that. that didn't work so well because it. didn't hit enough of those things that. you need to do to have a successful. boycott. >> And also because AOC is a boy byott. magnet. >> for sure. So, um, there were a couple of. things. So, there was a a the boycott. sparked a bycot among conservatives. because in in the United States, for the. for those of you who don't live here, when you choose a side on a boycott, you're ch you're defending your.

political beliefs. That's just how they. work here. I'm not sure if it's like. that the rest of the world around, but. that is definitely how they work here. And the reasons that Goya wasn't. successful as a buy or as a boycott was. because there were a lot of people Latin. Hispanic households who did not have a. dog in that fight who did not choose. sides who were not like what are you. talking about? We buy Goya products like. this doesn't make any sense. And then a. lot of those households also are. conservatives too. So they probably. would have bought Goya products had they.

not been buying them already just to. show their support. >> Yeah. and the bucot that it triggered. apparently uh Goya got a 22% bump in. sales uh because of that bucot but it. did not last long because like you said. a lot of those people who were like yeah. I'm going to start buying Goya stuff. because this guy praised Donald Trump. they weren't Goya customers before. So. maybe sometimes you get someone from a. bike out that's like hey these black. beans are dynamite that that's my brand. from now on. But in this case, it was a.

quick bump in sales and then they were. like, "Nope, back to old El Paso and the. sales kind of leveled out.". >> Yes. Um that's actually uh on the if you. flip-flop the political spectrum, the. same thing happened to Nike not too many. years ago when they supported Colin. Kaepernick while he was taking a knee. during the national anthem. >> and there was a huge backlash on social. media against Nike for supporting him. there. People were burning their Nikes.

and making videos of it and posting it. on social media, but it spurred a boy by. cot to support Nike and Nike made out. like bandits for that. They had what. analysts suspect was an additional $6. billion in sales in a handful of weeks. following the boycott. The call for the. boycott, the boycott gave them that much. extra money. The support came out for. them like that. >> That's right. Then the NFL got back at. Colin Kaepernick by essentially back.

blackballing him. >> Yeah. >> So, we should probably mention Bud Light. because we mentioned it earlier. That. was another very recent one. In 2023, a. transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney uh. had a Tik Tok video announcing a contest. sponsored by Bud Light. And in that. video, had the nerve to show a can of. Bud Light that the company sent her with. an image of her face on it. And that was. it. the conservative uh right got up in. arms and they said Budlight is dead to. us. Go woke, go broke. And in the three.

months following that post, Budlight. sales went down 28% compared to the same. period in prior years. And the damage. was worse in Republicanleaning. districts. I think 32% compared to 22%. in Democrat districts. >> Yeah. But ultimately overall 8 months. after the initial boycott they were down. 32% overall in sales. >> Yeah. So I mean it was a successful. boycott by all accounts. >> Man they went berserk about that. It was. a big deal here in the US that but like.

so just to be clear they sent Dylan. Mulaney one can with Dylan Mulaney's. face on it. This was not for sale or. anything like that. >> Yeah. >> But that was all it took. And yeah, Bud. Light just took a beating. They were the. number one selling beer. I don't even. think just light beer. I think beer in. the United States. And they dropped down. they dropped down to third. >> in just a few weeks, right? The reason. why, there are a few reasons why.

Substitutability. You could easily just. switch to Kors Light, Miller's Light, and your taste buds would have no idea. that you'd switched. But apparently a. lot of people switched to Modello. especiol, which we'll get to in a. second. And then also, and this explains. why Bud Light did this, because in. retrospect, you're like, that was one of. the more tonedeaf things a brand has. ever done, >> but it turns out Bud Light's customer. base is pretty evenly divided along the. political spectrum. So, I think they. just thought like they were doing what.

they do and were clearly not expecting. that kind of backlash. Companies in that. situation are much more vulnerable to a. backlash when they take any kind of. political stance or social stance. >> Yeah. Like when it's a pretty even split. on on who likes your product. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Because I mean if it were all like if. Budlight's entire customer base were. LGBTQ, if they put if they had Dylan. Mulaney be like a brand ambassador, it. would not matter at all. But because. half of their people probably have.

unflattering views on trans people. Yes. It really put a hurting on them. And. then the last one was observability is. what they call it. >> Yeah. Sometimes you consume a product in. private like the black beans you're. eating. >> right out of the can. >> Yeah. You're not just walking around. eating a can of black beans in public. Uh but other stuff, you know, it's a. little more visible and like, you know, tailgating and being out in public with. a beer, being in a bar with a beer, it's. a much more public product that you're. consuming.

>> And researchers found that even if you. were liberal and you were a beer. drinker, you might have avoided drinking. Bud Light in public just because of the. controversy over it. >> Um, one of the big there's an ironic. twist, I guess, to this whole thing. I. said that Modello Espeial became, I. think, the number one selling beer after. Bud Light dropped off. In the couple. weeks after the boycott started against. Bud Light, Modello's sales went up $36. million more than Bud Light sales. >> Yeah, that's amazing. >> Yeah. So, Modell is like, "This is.

great." The thing is is Modello and Bud. Light are both owned and distributed by. the same companies. So, it was like. robbing Peter to pay Paul or a Twitter. user put it. I think I found this on Vox. maybe in an article by Stephanie. Graante. Um, it was like boycotting the. Big Mac by eating a quarter pounder. instead. >> Yeah. And that's kind of like what I was. talking about earlier with just I think. boycotts are just not thought through as. much these days cuz.

>> I don't know there's so many mega. companies that own all these smaller. things. You really got to do your. homework to figure out like, wait a. minute, I can't switch to this thing. because they're also owned by that. thing. >> Yeah. I think though that one's not the. most slam dunk ironic twist there is. because I think even if they knew that. it was the same general company, Annheiser Bush, the was directed at Bud. Light. They wanted to punish Bud Light, the brand specifically, and they were. definitely successful with that.

>> Yeah, good point. So Chuck, there's a. couple of things I think we should wrap. it up by talking about like whether. these things are worth doing, whether. companies should take a social stance. Let's do that, shall we? >> Yeah. I mean, first of all, we mentioned. earlier that it it doesn't necessarily. have to be the big financial hit to. cause a problem these days. >> Just the uh the bad press and then a. negative press can hurt a company's. reputation. That could potentially hurt. a stock price. But I mean really the.

only thing that's going to damage the. stock price are are bad sales. So at the. end of the day it kind of is money. They. can probably withstand uh bad press, but. they don't love it. >> No. But if you can turn the markets on. the company, that's a big deal. >> Yeah, for sure. As far as whether people. think companies should get involved with. this, it depends on who you asked. There. was a a survey, I think from 2017, was. that right? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. not too long ago found that 90% of. American consumers expect companies to.

take an active role in addressing uh. social concerns. Um there was a. different survey that found that 63% of. millennials and 60% of Gen Xers uh think. companies have a more important role. than governments do in driving social. change. So those are pretty disperate. numbers, >> right? And people who advise companies, like there's an entire industry on. advising companies on stuff like this, they say it comes down to the company. culture. Do you stand for things? is are. you the kind of company that would ever. stand for anything or are you just. trying to sell duck boots? You know, um.

you have to ask yourself these kind of. things. Do you want to change to be a. different kind of company? Who knows? But what one of the things that they. find is that it is often worse to take a. stand and then change your stance than. to take no stance at all. >> Yeah. >> Like Target's wishy-washy stance on DEI. policies, right? Or apparently another. big one is companies will celebrate. Pride Month in a country that's that. where Pride Month is much more. acceptable uh than they and then just.

not celebrate it in other countries. where there is Pride Month but it's not. quite as accepted as it is in the other. countries. So having like a wishy-washy. stance on stuff that can really damage. your company's image because if you. basically are telling the world like we. don't really actually have any values, we don't really care about anything. social. We're just trying to make money. here. So even if you are a company that. chooses to take a stance, you really. need to stick with it and just stick. with it. Ride it out or else just don't.

do it at all. But don't make it take a. stand and then backpedal. >> Josh's advice to corporate America. >> Right. And then on the other side, if. you're just an everyday person and you. you want to take part in a boycott, I. think one of the issues, Chuck, that we. kind of were hinting around throughout. this episode is that a problem is that. you can become complacent, like you're. doing enough by, you know, liking a. tweet and then not buying Kellogg cereal. for a week and calling it a day. You.

feel like you're doing your part when. you're really not doing much and there's. a lot more work to be done. That's kind. of a big danger of it for sure. >> I gotta tell you, friend, I'm very. relieved because a few minutes ago I. thought you were about to say something. about LLBAN. >> Nope. >> When when you mentioned duck boots, I. was like, "Oh, no. Don't tell me. I got. to get rid of my duck boots.". >> Yeah, I've got mine, too. And luckily, there are other brands that make duck. boots, but not like LL Beans. >> No. Are there, though?

>> Sure. I've got some sperries that are. pretty good. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. I like sparies. So there. you go. And then lastly, Chuck, I. actually corresponded with a um. professor at Melbourne Business School. in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia about. something. Yeah. And I did that with. Jill Klein. I found an article called. Why We Boycott: Consumer Motivations for. Boycott Participation. And it's from all. the way back in 2004. But I asked her. like, "Okay, is this does this still. apply?" And she said yes because these.

four motivators that the study turned up. were based on basic psychological. processes that are unlikely to change in. 20 years. That's what she said. Right. So they found four motivators that are. that are the better predictors of. whether somebody takes part in a. boycott. Do you want to hear them or. should we just end the episode here? >> Hey, that's up to you, bud. >> I'll go forward with them. One is. egregiousness. That is how badly a. company behaved or how bad the thing. that the company is supporting is.

Efficacy. So the person's judgment on. whether the boycott's going to make any. difference whatsoever. Self-enhancement is one. Is it going to. make them look good? Is it going to make. them feel good about themselves for. doing it? And then estimated. participation of others. So the more. people you have joining in, the more the. person is likely to join in, which I. call the cool mod effect. It's a good thing that got here because. I know for a fact she rolled that up, put it in a bottle, cked it, and threw. it in the ocean. >> I couldn't believe how fast that current.

carried it here in like 12 hours. >> Pretty impressive. >> Pretty impressive. So, thanks a lot, Dr. Jill Klene of Melbourne Business School. and her uh co-author, Andrew John, who. also weighed in on the email. >> I love it. >> Thanks to everybody who uh helped us out. with this, including Dave. And thank you. for listening to this episode. And since. I just thanked everybody, it's time for. listener mail. >> Uh, this is from a guy in Athens and.

this is about our styrofoam. Hey guys, longtime listener. I run a business over. near Athens where we uh Athens, Georgia, that is where we recycle 90 to 95% of. our waste. We're primarily a candle. company, >> but also have a quaint retail store in. downtown Monroe. >> Nice. >> Uh, where we make our own products. When. I started the business, I wanted ethical. sourcing, sustainability, and health to. be our pillars of guidance. We source. all of our materials from sustainable or. recycled sources, but we also have a. huge recycling program where customers. can bring back their cleaned out old. containers to be exchanged for discounts.

on new products. >> That's awesome because those things are. hard to clean out. >> Yeah, totally. So, he's been going to. Charm. They have one in Athens because. we mentioned Charm, the great recycling. center for hard to recycle materials. here in Atlanta that Emily is dedicated. to. Mhm. >> And they've been going to Charm for. years. And uh he said, "Since I know the. industry lacks some transparency, I. decided to ask one of the folks what. they do with lowdensity plastic uh and. styrofoam that I drop off since I heard. those things typically have a low. conversion rate into new material. And. to answer your pondering question from.

the episode about styrofoam, the rep. told me they sell it to a company that. actually turns it into synthetic decking. material, which I thought was pretty. neat.". >> Yeah, >> I love that. And uh thanks for all you. do and for being a good model of healthy. friendship. Hey. Hey. How about that? >> What a great way to put it. >> And that is uh from Matt at the uh. Rekindle Candle Company. And you can. just look online. This sounds like great. stuff with a great core mission. Uh so. just check out the Rekindle Candle. Company online for Athens, Georgia, and. buy their stuff.

>> That name is adorable, Matt. >> I love it. >> Yeah. Thanks a lot for that email. Thanks a lot for what you're doing up. there. I'm going to go check out. Rekindle Candle Company either online or. in person. Who knows? M. >> And if you want to be like Matt and send. us a great email, you can do so. Wrap it. up, spank it on the bottom, and send it. off to stuffodcast@ iheartradio.com. [Music]. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iMheart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your.

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