How Boredom Works | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. And I'm. Josh. And there's Chuck. And Jerry's. here, too. And we are going to do the. opposite of making you bored with this. episode on boredom. >> That's right. Uh before we get going. though, we want to recommend a podcast. to our listeners from our.

>> uh always friend and former colleague, >> forever friend. >> Forever. Yeah, he's our he's our FF. >> Mhm. >> Uh but former colleague. We used to work. with Mangash uh Hadakador at uh House. Stuff Works and he's I I'm not lying. when I think we'll all agree because. Jerry's listening to that Mangash is one. of the like sweetest, sweethearts, kindest like most intelligent, nicest. dudes of all time. And that's reason. enough to listen to anything that he. does. >> He's a high quality person.

>> He's the best man is great. So, uh he. has a show out called How to Live. Forever. Uh which is not like here's how. you live forever. It's more like trying. to understand this sort of movement uh. that's going around of people that want. to try and like extend life into like. you know hundreds of years or forever. >> Mhm. >> Which is super up stuff you should know. listeners alley I think. >> Yeah. >> Uh and it's a great show. He wants to. recommend in particular um if you want. to just give it a shot. He said the. third and the fifth episodes are really. standouts. >> Yeah. >> And I listened to episode five because.

it sounded super interesting. And it is, buddy, cuz uh in episode five, Mangesh. kind of goes um investigator to track. down this uh startup that's trying to. create. >> brain deadad clones for billionaires. >> Mhm. >> So that when you get to be like, you. know, 90 years old, you can do a a body. replacement and transfer like this is. real uh um Futurama kind of stuff, >> right? to transfer like the head of a. billionaire to like a younger body and.

this is actually happening. Peter Peter. Theal is a funer of this thing. Uh so is. ARPA H and it's just kind of crazy. stuff. So um that's episode five. But. the podcast is how to live forever and. it's awesome. >> Yeah. And Mangash is super interesting. and entertaining and if you're like I'm. not quite convinced of this Mangesh guy, put this in your pipe and smoke it. He. along with another colleague of ours, Will Pearson, co-founded Mental Floss. back in the day when he was in college. >> Yeah, man.

>> Yep. >> That's all you need to know. Yeah, Mang. is the best. So, check out How to Live. Forever. Uh, I'm going to get all. corporate here and say wherever you get. your podcasts. >> Oh, is it guaranteed human? >> I think so. >> Okay, great. Uh, okay, Chuck. So, we're. talking about boredom. Uh, I found it. exceedingly hard to concentrate while I. was studying this. Did you? Yeah, it was. I hated to say it, but it was kind of. boring. >> I I actually liked it. Um Oh, really? >> Yes, I did. At first, I was like, "This.

is kind of boring." It's very dry, but. um if you put it all together, it. actually boredom did become a little. more interesting to me than it had been. before. Let me just say say it like. that. How about that? >> Well, that's good. >> But it's like when we researched sushi. or yawning or whatever, I wanted sushi. I couldn't stop yawning. >> Right. Right. like reading about boredom actually. makes you like it's hard to concentrate. which is one of the traits of boredom. I. thought I just thought that was very. interesting. >> for sure. Uh if you want to talk about.

just how boredom is sort of defined it. is um the experience of wanting to. engage in a something that is like. satisfying to you but not being able to. and being left in a in a state uh in. this case it's called an adaptive state. >> Yeah. um where you know you're you don't have. an optimal uh energy level. Um you it. may be there may be some discomfort. Um. this is a big part of boredom is it.

urges new action because as we'll see. just being bored can lead to you doing. really dumb things just so something is. happening. >> If you put all that together man it. really just sounds like you need a. Snickers, >> right? you know. >> Yeah, maybe so. Because boredom, you. know, it's it's boredom definitely urges. you to pursue something different than. what's going on. That's sort of the the. whole point behind it. >> Yes. Now, whether. what you pursue is up to you and it can.

be negative, it can be positive, it can. be um really bad for you, it can. actually be great. And this is like um. this is like it's really well studied. I. think one of the things I appreciated. about it is the philosophers. um starting in the 19th century with. Schopenhau and then NZ like they really. thought a lot about boredom and what. boredom was and they created a great. basis for it that science then took over. and science has done a really good job.

of investigating it and explaining it. too and I love topics like that because. we cover so much stuff like I like it. when it's like no one understands this. and here's this theory and here's that. theory. I like topics like that, but I. also like topics where it's all like, oh, all the components are here and we. can put them together and now I. understand it. >> Yeah, for sure. I agree too. Um, if. there's boredom happening, that means. there's obviously nothing new or. stimulating happening. >> There may be a time distortion like. things are really dragging on and it. might feel meaningless. And you.

mentioned Shopenhau, he uh put forth. that boredom and pain are like the twin. poles of life and you just kind of swing. between those. >> Yeah. Yeah, Nietze came along and he was. like, I agree. He said, yes, and I think. boredom can actually lead to creativity. I don't think it's all bad. And he went. on to say, which I think is going a. little far, that God created humans. because God was born. Okay,

>> it's a little it's like, how are you. going to prove that? And he said, I'm a. philosopher. I don't have to prove a god. thing. Uh Emily has always and I you know I've. since gotten on board when you know when. you have a kid you know I'm bored I'm. bored you hear that a lot and she from. the very beginning with Ruby was like. >> well you know what's on the other side. of boredom creativity and you know. Ruby's tired of hearing that but that's. a good way to handle it with kids is um. and they say to like you know don't hand. them something to do like you're bored.

oh here do this and do this and like try. and solve their problem right you like. solve it yourself go find something to. do. >> and Uh if all goes well, and generally. it does, at least with my daughter, uh. all of a sudden she's, you know, drawing. something or or writing something. >> That's neat. >> Yeah. >> Or you're like, "Where did she get that. pony?". >> Right. >> All of a sudden, >> I know how creative. >> So, one thing that the philosophers did. have in common, Chuck, was that they. considered boredom important. And I. think today most people including me did.

I did not think of boredom as. particularly important but if you look. at it a certain way say like um have. science now does it's extremely. important in that if you think about us. never getting bored we would just sit. around either blissed out all day or sit. sitting around doing nothing right like. boredom actually prompts you to action. and they believe now that essentially. it's because Your brain is constantly.

seeking new novel stimuli. >> Yeah. >> That when it's not granted that when you. when it doesn't have the opportunity to. do that anymore. And there we'll see in. a second. There's different reasons why. that can happen. It just basically shuts. down to a certain extent. And it that's. not just it. If it just kind of shut. down, you would just be daydreaming. There's also a negative arousal state to. where you just feel restless, agitated, you can't concentrate.

>> Yeah. >> And that those two things combined make. boredom kind of unpleasant and spur you. to action to go do something that will. give your brain the novel stimuli it. gets to search for. It likes to search. for signal among noise and then engage. with the signal is how I saw it put. And. that when it can't do that, that's where. boredom comes. Yeah, I thought that was. really interesting in that because I was. today years old when I found out that. the brain is constantly predicting.

sensory inputs, >> right? >> I always just kind of thought the brain. was processing information as it. receives it. But the brain is is. predicting like like actively predicting. sensory inputs. And the brain loves it. when those predictions are validated. But what it really loves. >> is when it uh it's in an environment. where it makes a prediction that is um. slightly different than what it. predicted in reality. >> Yeah, we would call that learning in. other words, right? And that's where the.

brain gets a little dose of dopamine. because we've talked about dopamine. before. It's a reinforcing. uh reward chemical, right? Yeah. >> It's not like, oh, I ate this Snickers. and there's dopamine. That's a. misstatement of what dopamine is. Dopamine is what our brain gets when we. get it our brain gets it slightly wrong. so that it learns. It says this is. important. Here's what the correct. answer was and now your brain just. learned and that's what it seems to like. the most like you said. >> Yeah, for sure. And boredom could also. uh or at least what it could represent.

is a faulty prediction uh where the. brain has an unrealistic award or reward. that they think is coming. So in that. case uh it varies from uh like the. prediction but not in a good way. So. like there's a hypothesis that if you're. prone to boredom that your brain isn't. predicting well. It's like bad at. predicting what's happening. >> Yeah. Right. There's other um situations. that they've identified where you can. get bored or where boredom sets in. One.

is obviously where you're just not. getting enough stimulation. Like uh an example I thought of is let's. say you're quality control for the shots. brewery production line and your job is. to look for a glove on a bottle. >> and that's only happened one time and. it's never happened since and you're. really getting bored by this point. because you know that nothing new is. coming along. So your brain is like I'm. bored, right? >> Yeah. >> Which as we'll see is a terrible state. for you to be in as a worker for years.

and years on end. And then the other one. is the opposite. like you're getting so. much information that you don't. understand that you get bored because. your brain can't find signal in the. noise. And a good example I saw of that. is like a really dense lecture on a. topic that you are totally unfamiliar. with. >> Oh yeah, >> you know. >> Yeah, for sure. I I I fall into that. trap um a lot. I feel like. >> Yeah, I think most people do. >> Yeah. Yeah. And you you can become. really restless uh if you're trying to.

become mentally engaged and then if you. fail to that the a real listlessness can. follow. >> Uh I mentioned the time thing. It can. really feel like time has slowed down. and that there's no value in what's. going on and your concentration is off. Uh we did talk about like you don't. necessarily yawn when you're bored, but. you can yawn when you're bored. Like you. can change your like physical state. You. could slouch a lot more. Um it's, you. know, sometimes this may be a a signal. to other people that we're with of like,

you know, this party's lame. Let's let's. let's get out of here. Yeah. >> Right. Uh yeah, because I remember in. our yawning episode that it they one of. the theories was that it was a signal to. others that danger was nearby when we. yawn when we're anxious. >> Oh yeah, that's right. Danger. >> So there's been studies about what it's. like to be bored. All of us know what. boredom is like. But I think if you just. took me aside and and you know five days. ago said like okay what is boredom like.

explain it describe it. >> I probably. yeah. >> I probably wouldn't have been able to. So people have studied to try to figure. out subjectively what boredom's like. ticked off a lot of it, but it seems. like the studies that really kind of got. to the root of it went to the furthest. extreme and induced the deepest possible. boredom that you can through sensory. deprivation. And what they found is that. the brain just goes haywire when it's.

bored to those extreme levels. >> Yeah, they did, you know, they've done. studies like this, you know, for. decades, but there was one in the 50s at. McGill University in Montreal. Shout out. Montreal. Uh where they paid people 20. bucks a day to stay in these little. rooms. Uh you had to wear like sensory. deprivation goggles and headphones and. gloves and cardboard tubes on the arms. I didn't quite get that. I guess they. just wanted you to be fully sort of. >> I don't know blocked down. >> No sense of touch maybe. >> Yeah, I guess so. Uh and I think it was.

over the period of a few days. They. never went longer than a week, >> right? >> Um but the it was not good. You know, people couldn't think of like fix on. anything like any thought for any length. of time at all. And their word pattern. recognition got all over the place. Their arithmetic skills were terrible. >> Um they started like hallucinating and. they became more susceptible to. supernatural beliefs. >> Yep. >> Um so obviously something like uh. solitary confinement in prison which I. think we did we do a whole episode on.

solitary or just. >> Yes, we did. And we concluded it's it's. not only inhumane, it's inhuman. >> Yeah. Completely. Uh because it. physically alters the brain. Like it. shrinks your hippocampus uh which is the. part of the brain that you know we talk. about a lot, but it's involved in. emotion control, spatial orientation, memory, that kind of thing. So you're. basically just um you're shrinking that. part of your brain when you throw. someone in solitary. >> Right. You want to take a a break and. come back and talk about how boredom can.

be useful? >> Yeah, let's do it. All. right, Chuck. So, um, we basically. talked about how boredom is not pleasant.

and and that kind of prompted a lot of. researchers to be like, well, then why. are we experiencing boredom? If we. experience boredom, and it seems like a. lot of different animals experience. boredom, too, as we'll see. Um, there. has to be some sort of evolutionary. benefit from it for it sticking around. for clearly tens or hundreds of millions. of years, right? >> Yeah. And what they what they finally. landed on was the same thing that. Shopenau and Nze um and Henry David. throw and a bunch of other philosophers.

pointed to which was it prompts you to. go out and do other stuff and it doesn't. necessarily prompt you to go out and do. the safest thing. It turns out that it. prompts you to go do anything else even. stuff that is outside of your comfort. zone. If it's an alternative to whatever. you're doing now and you're bored, you. will you're much likelier to go try it. than when you're not bored. And that's. what a bunch of research has turned up. >> Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, you.

think about the scenario of a bunch of. kids bored in the summertime and they're. like, "Hey, let's go jump off the roof. of the house right now and see what. happens.". >> Yeah. >> You know, that kind of thing. Um there. was uh a study in um the uh the I guess. it's a a scientific paper emotion or a. magazine. >> A journal. Yeah. >> Journal quarterly maybe. I don't know. >> A rag. >> A white paper. >> Uh by doctors Heather Lynch and Shane. Bench. Lynch and Bench. >> Yeah. >> Where they subjected the participants to.

stimuli that would make them bored. >> Mhm. >> Um either uh neutral board, positive. board, or negative board. And across all. the studies they uh people reporting. high boredom were more likely to choose. uh something unfamiliar which included. negative experiences. >> and people bored by positive conditions. sought out negative experiences and if. you were bored by negative content you. sought out positive experiences. So. almost like you're seeking out the.

opposite of whatever you're experiencing. in your boredom. >> Exactly. Yeah. They kept showing them. like picture after picture after picture. and even if it was positive, they're. like, "Do you want to switch to the. negative pictures? It's like cockroaches. and stacks of dirty dishes." And the. people were like, "Yes, please hurry. up.". >> Yeah, >> that's so Yeah, that's pretty good study. pointing out that, you know, it it will. leave our comfort zone. At least we'll. go look at pictures of dirty dishes if. we're bored, right? And then other.

studies have kind of followed this up. There was one in 2014 that attached um. something that could deliver an electric. shock around participants ankles and. then just left them to be bored in a. room alone for 15 minutes and see if. anybody would press the button that gave. themselves a shock knowing that that's. if they press this button that's what. was going to happen. It wasn't like a. surprise and people did. A lot of people. did as a matter of fact. They got so. bored they're like I guess I'll just. give myself electric shocks. I could see.

myself totally doing that. By the way, >> I think it depends on the shock. I would. at least try it once probably. eventually. >> Yeah, my deal. I would try it once and. be like, well, let's I got to see what. the button does. There's like no way I'm. just going to sit here and not know, >> right? >> Yeah. >> The one guy apparently pressed the. button 190 times in that in that um. study. >> Yeah. I think they should do some. follow-up studies with that guy. >> and just that guy. >> So, something's going on there. >> Exactly. Um, so circling it back around. to evolution, what they basically have. put all this together is that, you know,

um, just sitting around like a campfire. or something, uh, if if we got bored or. tuktuk got bored. >> Um, that might prompt him to be like, I'm going to go see what's over here. I'm going to go Yeah. Um, you know, see. what's down this river. And then maybe. Tuktuk encountered a new animal that Tuk. Tuk had never seen before. and Tuk Tuk. was kind of forced to create a new. weapon to hunt that animal. Or even. better, even better, >> Tuk Tuk made friends with that animal.

>> And all of a sudden, both of their. brains just enlarged because of the. empathy and love that developed between. the two. >> Yeah. I mean, that could go either way. You know, I've talked a bit about. watching the survival TV show alone, and. a common theme among all participants on. that show is like you're out here by. yourself and like it gets boring. Mhm. >> And sometimes that has led to them. making decisions that and that leads to. like the end of their stay there cuz. they did what Tuk Tuk did. They're like, "Hey, I'm bored. I want to go cross that.

stream that I thought it was probably a. really bad idea to cross." And uh and. turns out that was correct. And all of a. sudden they're getting helicoptered out. >> Yes. But it can also work out too and. that you go make a friend with an animal. on the other side of that stream. >> Yeah. Or kill it and eat it. So, uh I think also one of the more. prevalent interpretations among lay. people like us, um meaning people who. like to just lay around. >> Yeah. >> Um is that dumb people are more prone to.

be bored. And apparently this is the. idea of Henry David Thorough. He was. like, if you're if you're smart, you can. always find something to occupy. yourself. And I was like, shut up, thorough. >> Yeah, >> we know that you're so smart and cool. We get it. Uh you don't have to put. everybody else down. um studies have not. borne out thorough's idea. It finds that. um intelligent people and people of. lower intelligence are not neither one's. more likely to um to become bored more. easily. But there are personality traits.

that create um like trait boredom. There's trait and there's state just. like optimism. There's trait boredom and. there's state boredom. And trait boredom. seems to be kind of identified with two. different types of people. >> Yeah. There's a psychologist named John. Eastwood that said if you're if you're. an impulsive person and if you're always. like looking for that new thrill uh and. that you know generally kind of under. stimulated by the world around you then. that totally makes sense that you would. be prone to boredom. Mhm.

>> Uh, this one I don't know, I can't make. sense of, but if you're highly sensitive. to pain and fearful of the world around. you, >> um, maybe you're unsatisfied by the idea. like the safety net of not leaving your. comfort zone, so you might be more prone. to boredom, but I guess maybe more. willing to live with it. >> Yes. your your anxiety or your fears. overcome your your aversion, your. natural aversion to boredom as a human.

because you and so you're just not. feeding your brain any new stuff. anymore. So you become bored. It's very. sad reason for for being prone to. boredom. >> Yeah. Uh in school, you know, you were. talking about intelligence. In school, boredom is a big, you know, can be a big. challenge for any student. Uh but there. are eight precursors for boredom in. school which is you're uh. underchallenged like maybe you're in a. um like a remedial class and you're a. little more advanced. Uh o. overchallenged it and go the other way.

too where if you're like I just don't. get this stuff so you just slip into. boredom. >> like you were talking about earlier. >> Uh monotony in classrooms. Uh if you. don't like your teacher. >> uh if you think there's a lack of. meaning in going to school or a lack of. involvement. Uh, and then the other one. is just the, you know, man, I could I. could be doing whatever. I could be. outside throwing the Frisbee right now. instead of being in this dumb class. >> Yeah. And if you're an adolescent, you're essentially born to be bored. Like you're boredom levels peak between.

the ages of 10 and 17. Apparently, where. you and I are in life right now is um. where boredom levels dip the the most. Yeah. >> Dip their lows. >> I feel that. >> I I can too. It's not like I'm I'm. always doing something meaningful or. important. I just don't feel bored ever. That's all. >> I don't even Yeah. Even when I'm not. doing anything, I'm never bored. >> Same, man. I don't I don't feel boredom. anymore. It's kind of great. >> Yeah. It's It's great. >> I wonder if it's just getting to a. certain point in your life where you're.

maybe just satisfied with where you are. or maybe drinking the small things more. I don't know. >> Yeah, for sure. I think that's. definitely part of it. Um, and I. apparently it starts to go back up as. you get older, which I'm not looking. forward to. >> Yeah, let's avoid that. Let's agree to. avoid that. >> Yes. All right. Agreed. Pinky swear. >> Pinky swear. >> Um, but nothing compares to your your. levels of boredom from 10 to 17. Part of. it is that your brain is still. developing. So you said impulse control.

um needing stimulation. Yeah. Is a is. one re or one group of people who get. bored more easily. Well, adolescence by. nature are like that because their brain. is still developing and then also they. have much less agency or control over. their lives and control or lack of. control is positively correlated with. boredom. >> Right. So, yes. So, if you're like, I. want to go buy a Mad Magazine at this. awesome used comic book store,

>> um, but I can't because I can't drive. and it's all the way on the other side. of town. You're probably going to really. resent the situation that you're in. right there. And nothing is going to. make you like you're not going to say, "Oh, I'll just go play duck hunt then.". and and be happy. You're just upset. about that. And that can can create like. a a a sense of boredom in and of itself. >> Buddy, do you remember the feeling you. got when you got that driver's license?

>> Um, no. Not really. I don't. Yeah, >> man. I that that is uh and may it might. just be me then. It that was uh one of. the single most like important sort of. things that happened in my life up to, you know, my 20s or 30s even. >> Wow, that's awesome. >> That freedom when I finally got that car. key and was able to go and leave the. house by myself to go do something and. go somewhere that I wanted to go. >> That's cool, man.

>> It was incredible. I remember the. feeling of just being like, now I can. leave. I mean, no shade toward my family or. anything. Uh, I've talked before about. not not having. >> the greatest like situation with my. parents and all. Uh, so yeah, I wanted. to get out of there, but just the. freedom to go to my friend's house or. whatever, go to the the Turtles Record. store or whatever. >> No, I remember those. >> Yeah, it was incredible. >> Yeah. No, totally. You you prize. freedom. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh, we should probably.

talk about digital media though because. >> Yes. >> If you look at like boredom. generationally, it's a different ball of. twine these days. >> Yeah. So, I think most people think when. you get bored, you pull out your. smartphone, you go on Instagram or. Facebook or Tik Tok, I guess is how you. pronounce it. Um, and like now you're. not bored any longer. And there are. theories starting with our good friend. Arthur Schopenau um that you are still.

bored. What you have done is actually. lowered your um cognitive levels. >> Yeah. >> So that you're not bored anymore. You're. not going and doing something meaningful. or fulfilling to save off boredom. You've just undertaken a deeply. maladaptive. uh response to boredom, which is I'm. going to stop thinking so much. And. that's what you're doing when you go. scroll on social media. >> Yeah. It's I guess it's a a temporary. sav kind of thing.

But like chronic exposure to that to. like your smartphone. uh is basically pushing up the standard. of what you find engaging enough to keep. you from being bored. Does that make. sense? >> Yeah. And that's so that's a little. different from what I'm saying. That. that totally makes sense to me. The one. I'm talking about is this idea that what. you're engaging is existential escape. And there's a whole school of thought. that boredom represents a threat to.

meaning. >> It shows you what you're doing right now. is not meaningful. What you're doing is. meaningless. Maybe your entire life is. meaningless. Maybe everyone's life is. meaningless. So you're you're um you're. threatened by that. Boredom is is it it. generates those thoughts in you. So when. you go pick up your phone and start. scrolling, you are escaping this the. those existential thoughts by not. thinking about that kind of stuff, >> right? And when people spend hours and. hours every day on their phone and.

everybody has it in their pocket, we. have now this quick and easy way to just. stop thinking and stop going and doing. something else that is more meaningful. to you personally, not necessarily to. society, but something that's more. meaningful to you. And so we get trapped. in this this state of living to a lesser. degree than we would if there weren't. >> social media apps on smartphones. Seriously, it's as cut and dried as. that. >> Yeah, for sure. I'm getting a uh dumb.

phone. >> Are you? >> Yeah, I'm I got to figure it out. Uh cuz. I just started sort of looking into it, but I want to be able to have. >> both um with the same phone number. >> Um cuz in certain situations I'm going. to I'm going to still want my um iPhone. like when I'm traveling or whatever. A. lot of situations where I'm going to. want it. >> Yeah. >> But I want to get one and I just have. and maybe if someone knows how to do. this that would be great if they could. write in, but I want to get one that. works with the same phone number on the.

same carrier. Mhm. >> Uh, I'm happy to pay for the extra. whatever it costs to manage that account. or whatever. Um, but yeah, in in a lot. of most situations, I would try to have. the dumb phone on me. >> I'm just like talking um out of turn. here, but it seems like spoofing your. SIM would be the answer to that. And I. don't know how you would do that, but. that would be my guess. >> I don't know what spoofing a SIM means. Your SIM card is what gives your phone. its individual characteristics like your.

phone number and all that stuff. >> Oh, okay. So, >> so if you can figure out how to. duplicate that or spoof it in Tik Tok. terms, >> uh you could conceivably have two phones. with the same number getting the same. info at the same time. >> It, you know, I don't know why Apple. doesn't put out a dumb phone that's like. >> here's another thing we can sell you, >> right? >> Uh that works perfectly with your phone. number and everything. Like I I figured. I think they would sell a ton of those. cuz people would be like, "Yeah, I want. two phones. When I'm out with my.

friends, I want my dumb phone so I can. just stay present." And uh when I. whatever, I want my smartphone. >> I think that I think you just kind of. answered it that um there's people who. would say because generally people in. charge don't want you to be present. >> Yeah, maybe. So. >> that's that's Yeah, it's my guess. I. just saw where uh social media companies. are being sued for $220 billion dollars. by a handful of states. >> Good. >> For getting uh children addicted to. social media,

>> which they 100% did. >> Yeah. >> I'm really curious how that pans out cuz. it's it's I mean it's a slam dunk case. It's just those guys are so powerful. >> that I mean they make the tobacco. companies look like you know. >> a a local auto body shop. >> Yeah, I'm with you. And hats off to. Australia uh because they mandated. countrywide no social media for any. children under 16. >> Yeah, they did that a while back, didn't. they? >> Uh I don't know how recently, but they. they're sort of leading the way in a lot.

of other countries are like, "Hey, maybe. that's not such a bad idea." And. certainly, you know, we're going to do. that in our family. And I don't even. think 16, man. I I would love to see. Ruby get through all of high school. without any exposure to social media. >> That would be something. >> really great. >> Yeah, I think it's very sad. And I think. it's going to be something that we it's. just going to get more and more clear as. time goes on like just how harmful that. was and is. >> Yeah. And especially as it gets more and. more fake and deep faked in AI to the.

point where people are sitting around. staring at something that isn't even. real ever. >> Yeah. I I tend to hope though, Chuck, that it's been ground in so hard and in. in such a compressed amount of time over. the course of just several years that. people are just going to have a natural. backlash against it and maybe like the. cool thing will be to spend all your. time outside doing stuff, you know? >> I hope so, man. I would love to see it. swing and things a lot of times do swing.

back hard the other way. I would love to. see that of like people like smashing. their smartphones and being like, "No, man. It was things were better before. Let's go back to that.". >> Yeah, >> that'd be great. Uh maybe we'll take a. break and talk about uh animals and. benefits of boredom. Does that sound. good? >> Yeah. >> All right, we'll be right back.

All right, everyone. We're back uh after. our little rant. I hope it was taken in. the right way. >> Yeah, Tim Cook is like, "Those guys. really hurt my feelings." Tim Cook would. be I hope he gives me credit when they. invent a dumb phone that they can sell. you for like $700.

>> Yeah. At least. >> uh they're like you can text and get a. map to places and uh and call people and. that'll be $700, >> right? We're we're you're paying not to. go into cognitive decline. I think. that's really what the price reflects. >> Uh all right. So I promised talk about. animals getting bored. Uh animals that. aren't us that is. and they have done. research to and basically kind of said. like yeah animals for sure get bored. Um. I think we I mean people that are you. know dogging at least dog owners have. seen their own dogs get bored and get.

like get destructive because yeah. they're not stimulated enough. And I. think that's kind of the same thing. But. they've studied uh mink. >> uh like the animal the mink that's um. they house them in non-enriching. environments was terrible. And then they. said they definitely experience. boredomike states uh because they found. that they would these mink would. approach anything novel shown to them. even if it was like a predator like what. they thought was a predator like a. predator shadow and the noises of a.

predator. The mink was like well I'll go. check it out. I don't care anything but. this cage. >> Yeah. Isn't that interesting though? It. increased curiosity in them like because. they were bored. So that kind of goes to. to support that evolutionary idea too. >> Yeah. There's another one that studied. rats where basically they switched up. foraging material and the flavor of the. pellets under the foraging material for. some rats and then others they just gave. them the same ones over and over again. And the ones that got the same ones over. and over again exhibited behavior like.

trying to find the exit out of their. cage and other really sad stuff. So, what's heartening about this is animal. welfare people are pointing to this and. saying like um if you have a a pet or an. animal that you keep, you have a greater. responsibility to it than just keeping. it alive and giving it food and water, maybe taking it for a walk. Animals get. bored, which means you have to st you're. responsible for stimulating something. that gets bored if you've taken. responsibility for it in any way. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh my one dog Gibson is. a a hound dog and he is um very.

stimulated by smelling stuff obviously. So they say when you take your dog for a. walk. >> to let them smell. Like if you're if. you're constantly just pulling your dog, you know, cuz you're trying to get your. steps in, >> they get more worn out from a 20 minute. sniff walk than an hour like hardcore. exercise walk. And my walks with Gibson, like they're 45 to 50 minutes long. And. I bet half of that is standing around. while you smell stuff. I am so glad you. said that, dude, because that is.

absolutely true. And I you see a lot of. people is like, "Come on." And that's. Yeah. It doesn't like you're That's how. your dog like enjoys life is by sniffing. other stuff. >> Yeah. It's great. And it's a good lesson. uh uh for me like as a person. Like I. >> I thought you were learning to sniff. things too. >> No, no, no. Just to slow down. Like. yesterday, another weird example is I. got um. >> I went sometimes I'll go out to play. golf by myself if no one's around. >> and get in like a little, you know, if. they don't pair me with anyone, it's.

kind of great because I can, >> you know, drop as many balls to take the. shot over again and really like just. sort of treat it as practice. >> Yeah. >> But I went out to do that the other day. and they paired me with these two old. fellas that were probably mid 80s to. 90s. >> Oh wow. >> And boy, these guys were slow, slow, slow. And I was like, "You know what, Chuck? This isn't that day. You're just. going to be there with them. You're. going to help look for their balls. You're going to carry the clubs to them. when they drop them, and you're going to.

slow it down." And it was a really. lovely, relaxing experience. >> That's. >> I didn't I didn't get bored. I tried to. like revel in the slowness of it all. You know, >> they kept dropping their clubs. >> No. Like, you know, you carry a pitching. wedge and a putter to the green and you. drop your pitching wedge to putt. I. would always go like caddy meant. >> I would always go caddy their club form. or get their ball or whatever, you know, try to help these guys out. >> I got you now. >> They didn't like me very much though, but it was still fun. >> So, um, yeah, I think that's great.

advice, too, just to slow down and stay. present and mindful. >> Yeah. And all that I think comes around. to the boredom thing. It's like there. are many ways to keep yourself from. being bored. And one might be to just. try and look at the circumstance you're. in in a different way. >> For sure. Um, also I think it's. important to to bear in mind that you. like what's meaningful to you or what's. boring to you is boring or meaningful to. somebody else. Right. Right. So it's not.

like you'll get all sorts of advice like. go out and and read a book, go and ride. a bike. Um, that might not necessarily. be meaningful to you. There's something. else that's going to be meaningful to. you. And that's advice that's typically. given to deal with boredom, which is. identify things that you care about and. then go do those things. Just have them. on hand. You know, you don't have to do. them all the time. You don't have to. become the best at them. You don't have. to drive yourself. You don't have to. share your experience with anybody else. Yeah. >> But just identify some things like this.

is this is meaningful to me. So that if. you do find yourself bored, you don't. necessarily just pull out your phone. you go, maybe I'll go to um, you know, rescue guppies out of elementary school. aquariums, >> right? >> Whatever. >> Whatever it is. >> Yeah. I mean, it definitely can lead to. creativity. Uh, there's a psychologist. named Sandy Man that says that, you. know, embrace that boredom. Um there was. a study that she did where she had. people copying numbers from a telephone.

directory. >> and she found that uh they were more. creative after like she gave them a task. like hey try and think while you're. doing this try and think of new uses for. plastic cups and once they were subject. subjected to the tedium of just copying. numbers it allowed their you know they. embraced that boredom and their mind. wandered all these creative things they. could do with uh the cups um. >> beer pong was born. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and that there's something called the. default mode network. Um, where if.

you're, you know, not doing anything. that gives your brain space to go in. that default mode where your brain isn't. engaged in a specific thing, but it can. like get creative. >> Yeah, we've talked about that a lot over. the last few years. I know it's a big. deal with ADHD that it's really hard to. get out of your default mode network, >> right? And so no surprise um boredom can. be a uh a part of uh ADHD too. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh and you know, we're. talking about some some of the.

positives. It can also be a negative. thing. Uh because we talked about. risk-taking and risky behavior just to. do something different. Uh they've. definitely tied boredom to like, you. know, gambling, substance abuse, and. stuff like that. uh like the the promise. and of a of a stimulation that you're. seeking because you're bored uh can. sometimes be like a really bad thing. >> Agreed. Um you can turn to We've been. picking on smartphones and sorry to. everybody who's like you guys are too. preachy these days. That was definitely. very preachy, but it is a pretty good.

example. It's not the only one. People. take up drugs, literally take up drugs. because they're bored with life. Uh they. start drinking sometimes. Uh studies. show um that people who are bored. consistently go to um lower quality or. low nutrition snacks over you know. something better for them when they have. the option like it you can just you go. in a place where you're going to find. some sort of stimulation. Um, and yeah,

that's so there are a lot of risk. behaviors associated with boredom that. you're going to do something because. that you got to get rid of that arousal. state that's unpleasant, which is. boredom, but it's not necessarily going. to be going and volunteering at the. cancer ward at your local hospital. It. might be, oh, I'll go see what crack's. all about. >> Man, you're so preachy. >> Some people do find I we get that from. time to time. Yeah, but you're sitting. there encouraging people to like engage.

with the world and to go volunteer for. cancer and not to do crack. Like get off. your high horse. >> I think I think that some people don't. like being told what to do no matter. what it is. >> I know. Yeah. >> Can I get that? I don't I I feel like. also I think it's our age, too. We're. just lucky that we're not like the kind. who like tell everybody how stupid they. are, too, you know? >> Yeah. I mean, I hope people know it's. always take it or leave it. Like, you. know,

you don't have to be the way we're. saying to be, but I I love the advice of. engaging with the world or volunteering. for, you know, sick children in a. hospital rather than doing crack. I'll. I'll stand I'll die on that hill. >> And I think also though, Chuck, it's. really important that we pointed out. that, you know, there's there's not some. ideal thing you should go be go do. >> No. >> That it's all based on what you find. meaningful. And that's the point. Not. what we're saying you should go do, but. what you think you should go do. The. point is to just do something that's.

going to help you in the long run more. than, you know, turning to pot, >> right? Uh procrastination is another. thing. I know we've um talked about that. before, but it is definitely a response. to boredom. Uh proness to boredom. increases someone's tendency to. procrastinate generally. Mhm. >> Uh which is interesting because it's uh. you know doing that thing would solve. the boredom problem that like the thing. you're putting off a lot of times. >> I think they're equating it with like.

looking at your smartphone. You're not. actually doing anything. You're just. lowering your brain standards for input. >> I guess that makes sense then. >> And we talked about some some stuff with. managing boredom like um you know. identifying ahead of time things that. you could go do. like you said, don't. just try to solve it immediately for. kids. Let them kind of figure it out on. their own. Um I also saw there was a. study where um researchers presented. kids with a big bag of toys and they. found that the kids played with each one.

a little bit and then just just stopped. eventually. >> and that if they gave kids just like one. toy, the kid engaged with that one toy. much longer. So that's part of it too, I. guess, is um robbing children of any. sort of choice in life, I think, is the. the lesson there. >> I really what really hit home was when. you like to do something meaningful for. you. I really like that you said that. because that could be going to, you. know, working in your garden or or. whatever. It could be drawing something. It could be writing something. Could be.

taking a walk. Um it could be anything. It doesn't have to be some like grand. meaningful gesture to other people. >> Right. That's what I was trying to say. that there's not some level that your. your activities have to rise to to be. considered meaningful. If they're. meaningful for you, bam. >> And do not say that looking at Instagram. is meaningful for you. You're lying. You're lying to yourself. You're lying. to Chuck. You're lying to me. You're. lying to everybody. >> I agree with that. >> Uh I think that's it for boredom for.

now, huh? >> Yeah, >> it was a good one. I like this one. >> I did, too. Uh, and I think since this. is the end of boredom, it's time then. for listener mail. >> That's right. This is short and sweet. Hey guys, long time listener, first-. time writer. >> This is about the irony episode uh from. Nick. I once had a debate about the song. ironic that you guys talked about from. Alanis Moriceet. >> Yeah. >> An English teacher I worked with. Uh, I. argue that it is a purely ironic song. because it's called ironic and contains. no irony and irony is flipping.

expectations to a certain degree on a. meta level. I really think the song is. pure irony. >> Never really thought about that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh, thanks for the great content, guys. I used to have playlists for my AP. students to listen to for introducing. subjects and for review and they enjoyed. it and it helped lay the foundation for. their studies. And that is Nick. >> Thanks a lot, Nick. That was just an. allaround great email. It's not very. often that our minds are just completely. blown, but I'm pretty sure you just did. it for both of us. >> Yes. If you want to be like Nick and.

blow our minds, please do. You can send. it in an email to stuffodcast@. iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iMheart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.