Heavy Metal Pt I | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. It's just the two of us. And I think we should greet all the. metal heads listening by saying swing. >> Wow. You ready for this one, huh? >> I am. I'm pretty psyched. I'm not going. to lie. I haven't been this nervous.

since maybe we did soccer. >> Yeah, I agree. I mean, we might as well. issue the the cover uh the COA for the. entire two-parter. >> Uh we're going to miss a lot. This is. about heavy metal, and anytime you're. doing a big genre like this, it's really. hard to to satisfy everybody. So, >> we will not name specifically your. favorite band most likely. I mean, yeah, there's a pretty good. chance. Um,

and we are also probably going to walk. by some amazing fact. >> Yeah. >> Don't call us stupid when you email in. to to tell us. Just tell us. Be like, "Guys, get this.". >> Yeah. >> That's the kind of email we like to get. >> That's the kind of email that gets read. on the air. It's like, "Hey, I know you. can't get to everything, but you missed. this kind of really cool thing. Let me. tell you about it.". >> Way to use a carrot rather than a stick, Chuck. >> So, it is just really intimidating. I. agree because uh and I I want to chat. just at the jump here about our metaless.

because I am not a metal head. >> Uh my metal experience is largely. um from high school as a Gen Xer in the. 80s. >> Mhm. >> Uh hair metal. So. >> same here, buddy. >> Okay, that's good. So my my top five. metal bands uh and I've gotten since. into like Black Sabbath and stuff like. that a little bit more. Uh, but my top. five metal bands look like this. And. that tells you a lot about what kind of. metal fan I am. Sabbath number one, Aussie number two.

>> Okay. >> Mly Crew, then Rat, and then the. Scorpions. >> Oh, really? Rat, huh? They were pretty. good. >> Rat's awesome. >> The Scorpions were good, too. That whole. Winds of Change thing, man, that's a. stirring song. >> Yeah, that's probably my least favorite. But I I those are the bands that I love. Uh, I listen on, you know, I got. sometimes you get a free Sirius XM. couple of weeks or whatever. >> Lucky. >> I got very addicted to the Hair Nation. channel. >> Oh yeah, man. That stuff still plays.

really well. >> It does. I love it. And I even like all. the kind of corny stuff from then, like. put on that White Lion song and watch. Watch Me Go to Town. >> That song Wait. >> Yeah, I love that song. >> That is good. Yeah, I know all those. songs too. I would even take a little. further and say I like Dawan. >> Okay, >> I want to make a joke about liking. Winger, but there are some Winger songs. that I kind of liked. >> Um, but like far and away, and I will I. will die on this hill. The best hair.

metal band of all time was Poison. I. mean, no questions asked. >> Would you say Poison? >> Poison. >> You know what's funny? >> You know why? >> Go ahead. >> What? >> No, you tell me why and then I'll tell. you what's funny. >> Okay, fair enough. So, the reason why I. say Poison is the best hair metal band. of all time is because they were highly. talented, >> but they were also totally in on the. cheesiness of the whole thing, too. >> You think. >> they did not take themselves too. seriously? Okay. >> You can make an argument that every rose.

has its thorns pretty meant pretty. seriously. Yeah. >> But I mean, like, I want action tonight. Yeah. >> Um, nothing but a good time. Like, those. dudes were not like trying to be. serious. There was no shout at the devil. or anything like that. They were just. partying and they were the perfect hair. metal band to me. >> You can't write a song called Unskinny. Bob uh and claim to be like a serious. band, >> right? Exactly. >> That's a good point. Uh like gasoline, you want to pump me.

>> That's right. Exactly. >> Okay. So, what was funny? >> What was funny is is uh at some point. we're going to talk about, you know, how. sort of white male most metal is. and. Livia who helped us with this um you. know was able to source some some women. in metal including full bands and she. didn't find Vixen. I was like wait a. minute there was Vixen and then I typed. into Google search uh female heavy metal. or hair metal bands. >> and it said Vixen and Poison.

>> That's hilarious. You got that one wrong AI. >> Yeah, that was pretty funny. Uh what are. your top five? Do you have a working top. five and not the joke that you sent me. via text? >> Yeah. Um, so mine's actually changed in. the last couple days, I have to say. >> Oh, >> it used to be time was and I listened to. most of my metal in like 8th, ninth. grade, >> probably around the same time you did. Um, >> I uh was like Metallica just. unquestionably is my number one metal.

band. >> Oh, okay. >> I I think And justice for All is maybe. the perfect metal album. >> Yeah, I like that early stuff. If I. liked Ride the Lightning and Master. Puppets, that was good. >> I do too. But I didn't like those until. I was old. Actually, within the last. several years, I started listening to. those two. I was like, damn, these are. really good, too. It's just different. It's way less produced. Yeah. >> It's way more, you know, like it's just. more thrash, right? >> Yeah. >> But, so that kind of goes to show you my. taste. Like, I like Metallica's most. produced good album.

>> Okay. >> Um, so that's that's they're they're. unquestionably my favorite. Black. Sabbath is probably number two. Okay. >> Or a close at their heels. Nipping at. their heels is poison. >> Okay. >> Um I really like Helmet, which is a alt. metal band from the '9s. >> Oh, I love Helmet. >> Okay. Helmet was great. >> Yeah. I guess I didn't really think. about alt metal, but sure. >> Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I'm having to. include them. That's I think kind of a. revelation like I'm. >> I'm having to include alt metal here. Right. Right. And then I can't Maybe.

Anthrax would probably be number five. Right. Especially in eighth grade, I. loved anthrax. >> So, not Iron Maiden. That surprises me. >> Oh god, why did I do that? Yes, Iron. Maiden. I'm sorry. You're right, Chuck. Thank you. >> I was even going through my um my Apple. Music folder just to look just to. refresh myself. I've got like five Iron. Maiden albums in there, too. So, I'm not. sure how they got left out. Let's say. Maiden's number two, then. >> Okay, that's great. Uh I I have been. listening to Iron Maiden lately. Uh, you.

know, I was an MTV kid, so I know that. was my big influence. So, I know the. Iron Maiden songs that had big videos, >> but I never really dove in. Um, and kind. of the same with Judas Priest, even. though I have gotten way more into them. lately. And, uh, I think I mentioned I'm. going to actually see them. >> later this year. And that was the other. thing is like I was way more into other. music like in the 8th and 9th and 10th. grade. That's when I was really started. listening to like NXS and the Smiths and. Ramm and the Cure. >> Yeah. Same. So that was my jam. But like.

if you were an MTV kid and a radio kid, like you you kind of listen to all that. stuff, >> but I wasn't the one going to see those, you know, I never saw Aussie live and. stuff like that. Like those those kids. in my high school kind of scared me. >> Yeah. Well, they could be kind of scary. I think that's one of the reasons they. were into it for sure. >> Yeah. >> Um, so just to update my list though, okay, is still number one. >> Yeah, >> Black Sabbath or sorry, Iron Maiden is. still number two. Sabbath is in there. somewhere, but there's a couple new.

bands that I'm like, "These guys are. really good." Gojira, which is a French. >> I think they like they transcend a bunch. of different subg genres. So, let's just. say they're a French metal band and. they're very good. They actually played. at the um summer Olympic opening. ceremonies. >> Oh, >> you remember the dudes who were like. thrashing when like standing on the. building? That's Gojira. >> Okay. >> Um I really like God Flesh. I don't know. how I missed them because I was into. industrial in high school, too. They're. very. >> industrial metal. I love them. Right. Yeah. >> And then um I'm really now into um High.

on Fire. Have you heard of them? >> I've heard of them, but I don't know. anything about it. >> They're amazing show. I like everything. I've heard of them. And they're playing. in Baltimore in mid August. Yi and I are. seriously. maybe. I like them that much now. Yeah. >> You just you're being koi because you. don't want all the high on fire people. to be like, "Where's Josh?". >> That's right. All right, let's get down to business, shall we? >> Yeah. Uh, like I said, Livia helped us.

out with this, and so she starts off. with the definition from the. Encyclopedia Bratannica. >> Mhm. >> Which, you know, is kind of silly, but. sometimes we do that because like it's. kind of hard to define metal uh as as. we'll see. And there I have a lot of. nitpicks with a lot of these bands that. I don't consider metal that are in this. uh material. But. >> Oh, yeah. A lot of them. I mean, there. are a few, but a lot. >> We'll see as we go. >> Okay. All right. you maybe just keep a. timer or a uh a dinger or something. >> A clicker. >> A clicker. Yeah, there you go. >> Yeah. >> Uh but Bratannica says it's a it's a.

genre that includes a group of related. styles that are intense, virtuastic, and. powerful and includes distorted electric. guitar. Uh the virtuastic really rings. to me because one thing like there's no. metal band that doesn't have a great. guitar player. Maybe two, maybe three. >> Mhm. >> You know. >> Yeah. No, I I agree. And are you taking. a shot at me with the maybe three part? >> No, not taking a shot. Like Iron Maiden. has three. >> Yeah, they have three guitarists, man.

And you can hear it. Yeah, >> you can totally tell like Yeah, Maiden. is pretty great. We'll talk a little. more about Maiden in depth in a second, right? >> But I think you just kind of laid it out. there like there's that's as that's as. tight a definition as you can really. kind of corral all of metal into just. because it's there's so much varied. stuff. It's like a really fractured. genre of music. Yeah, there's subg. genres of subg genres. >> and there's probably subg genres of subg. genres of subg genres. Like that's how.

niche some of this stuff is. Like if the. average person came along and listened. to, you know, some similar subg genres. or closely rel related subj. They would. not be able to tell the difference. Some. of the subg genres like are pretty. different and the average person could. tell the difference, but when it gets. super niche, you really have to be a fan. to be able to be like, "Oh, no. This is. this is technical thresh.". >> Yeah. >> Death core, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Uh there is. another little bit from the Grammys.

because now the Grammys has awards for. this kind of thing. >> Uh where they mention dark lyrics that. may focus on social issues or fantasy. and myth. Mhm. >> Um, that's kind of important because I I. found when I was nitpicking, and these are just this is just Chuck's. dumb opinion, but sometimes the. difference was very small as far as. like, you know, all the trappings of. metal, but I still don't consider it. metal because maybe a very nitpicky. reason. >> Mhm. >> Uh, but you know, if you're if you're. singing and it's heavy guitar and you're.

singing about Lord of the Rings, chances. are you're heavy metal. Except your Led. Zeppelin to me is not heavy metal. They're they're hard rock as far as I'm. concerned. >> No. And Led Zeppelin has always has. always said like we're not heavy metal. We never have been. We're like blues. rock, hard rock, maybe heavy rock, I. don't know. But they've always said. we're not heavy metal even though like. most metal historians will point to them. at least to some degree as one of the. the founders or progenitors of heavy. metal. For sure.

>> Yeah. Uh and also want to point out the. Grammys missed something. They said the. when they were f focusing on the lyrics, dark lyrics that may focus on social. issues or fantasy and myth, they forgot. uh or girls, girls, >> right? For sure. >> Cuz hair metal not a lot of social. issues, not a lot of fantasy, not a lot. of myth. That was a that was a specific. period in the 80s where they were mostly. singing about girls and sometimes in a. very gross way. >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's definitely. the world's definitely evolved past the. hair metal view of the world. Yeah,

>> for sure. Still fun. Poison still just. wants nothing but a good time. Everybody. >> Yeah. >> So, um, we did talk about Led Zeppelin. There's actually what's known as the. unholy trinity of hard rock, and Led. Zeppelin's considered one of them. >> Yeah, agreed. >> Um, and yes, no one's going to say like, I don't know, they're not hard rock. It's just are they are they heavy metal. or were they just help helpful in laying. the groundwork for heavy metal? And like. you said, one of the things that Led. Zeppelin did, they were singing about.

Lord of the Rings before, you know, before Orlando Bloom was even born, >> right? Uh yeah. I mean there's a guy that Livia. Pal named Jack Mannon of the metal hall. of fame who said that you know they have. lyrics related to the occult uh high. fantasy like Lord of the Rings. >> uh war distorted guitar a loud. long-haired uh you know great lead. singer and like again all those things. >> is is fair are fairly metal but I just I. don't know there's something about it. they're just more hard blues rock to me.

>> for sure and a lot of other groups from. the 60s you would kind of lump Led. Zeppelin in with because they were all. starting to experiment with really. distortionheavy guitar. Yeah. >> But they were blues rock for sure. Like. Cream, the Yard Birds, which actually. like gave birth to Led Zeppelin, it. turns out. >> Yeah. >> Jimmyi Hendris was another one. Yeah. >> Uh he has a metal tie in though. Um Lei. Kilmeister was a roadie for Jimmy. Hendris before he went on to found the. band Motorhead.

>> I was today years old. Did not know. that. >> Isn't that a great little fact? >> Yeah, that's really great, >> man. Can you imagine those two together. on acid? >> No. >> Uh, yes. >> Actually, I can do. >> Uh, Deep Purple is the second of the. unholy trinity of rock. They were formed. in 1968. Uh, but again, a little more like Prague. Rock to me. Um, I think by their fourth album, uh, which. was Deep Purple in rock is when they. replaced their singer with a guy named. Ian Gillan,

>> uh, and their basis with a guy named. Roger Glover. Um they got a little. heavier then but you know they're they. might be classified as a proto metal. because of their guitar player Richie. Blackmore who was a legend who went over. to be uh he went on to be the to form. the band Rainbow which was definitely. metal. >> Is it I've seen people say no it's. definitely hard rock because I I was. like no this sounds a lot like metal to. me. I like them. >> I thought rainbow was metal but again. these are just our our nitpicking.

definitions. >> But that's a good I mean that's a good. point. That's a good demonstration. Like. you can really get metal fans arguing by. just saying confidently like, "No, Rainbow's metal." People will start. arguing with you for sure. >> Yeah. And then Sabbath comes along and. to me they're very much sort of the. birth of metal. And I think a lot of. that has to do like the difference. between them and Led Zeppelin to me even. though there were a lot of similarities. is. >> Azy's voice was just he had a very. sinister kind of creepy sounding voice. and their music just sounded more.

sinister than Led Zeppelin. >> and not just sounded like they were like. the stuff they sang about. Yeah. Especially today, you're like, "Yeah, that's metal." But when you look back at. what the the time they were coming out. of, we're talking like the free love. hippie 60s. Oh, >> yeah. >> They came right out of that. And so, a. lot of people point to um Black Sabbath. not just as like the birth of heavy. metal, but the end of the 60s, like the. the thing that said like, "Hey, we're. going in a much different direction, and.

it it's not nearly as pleasant and. colorful as you guys have been taking. things." Yeah, for sure. Uh, of course. we're talking about uh the dearly. departed uh, recently departed Aussie. Osborne. >> Yeah, RIP Osbor. >> RIP. Uh, Tony Iomi, guitar player, Gizer. Butler was a basist and Bill Ward on. drums. >> And they were originally a blues band. called Earth Blues Company. Uh, eventually you'll become Earth. Only. Earth. They're from Birmingham, England, as you'll see. That'll be a recurring. motif here. >> Yeah. And the name Black Sabbath came.

from the fact that it sounds like Geyser. Butler uh again their bass player had uh. sleep paralysis. >> Yeah, it does sound like that, doesn't. it? >> Yeah. What happened? >> He he dreamt that there was a dark. figure standing at the foot of his bed. and so he wrote a song. They named it um. he wrote a song about that and they. named it Black Sabbath. And Black. Sabbath is taken from a Boris Caroff. movie about a um talking boat that wins. a riata for a group of orphans. >> Caroff does the voice of the boat. Um.

and they ended up having to change their. name uh because some other band was. like, "Hey man, we're Earth." And then. I'm sure another band was like, "No, we're Earth." And then it just kept. going on from there. Either way, Sabbath. saw the writing on the wall, so they. were like, "Well, our our favorite song. and the song that everybody likes the. most is Black Sabbath. Let's just call. ourselves that. So, their debut album. was Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath. featuring the song Black Sabbath. They. were one of those. >> That's right. Uh and they, you know, I'm.

going to sort of pepper in some, you. know, Rolling Stone ticket for what it's. worth, but they have a list of their top. 100 metal bands. And fun fact, uh either. Aussie or Sab or I'm sorry, metal. albums. Uh either Aussie or Sabbath have. four of the top 15. Not bad. >> Not bad at all. No, Aussie is definitely. a metal god, which is interesting. because Black Sabbath as a band, just. like Led Zeppelin, it said, "We're we're. not heavy metal or we weren't heavy. metal." Right. It's not what we were. And again, most people are like, "You.

you are. Sorry to inform you. You were. definitely metal." Yeah. >> But apparently Rob Halford, the um lead. singer, Judas Priest, Yeah. I guess he. was on WTF with Mark Maron at some point. >> and he said, "Hey, Sabbath has always. said like we weren't the first metal. band." Well, Judas Priest was founded. the same year. >> Yeah. >> So, we'll we'll gladly take that title. as the first metal band. And you can. make a pretty good case. If if Sabbath. says no, give it to Judas Priest for. sure. >> Yeah. I don't think I realized they.

formed at the same time. Uh that's. interesting. And and I also think Azy's. posts Sabbath career as just Azie. Osborne was as metal as metal gets. So, there may be a little bit of like kind. of joining those two things together. >> That's possible. Yeah, for sure. >> Yeah. Had he gone like the way of George. Benson or Chuck Manion, >> people might leave might leave uh Oh, did Oh, yeah. That's right. Wow. They're. just popping up all over the place or. doing the opposite of that, I guess. >> Yeah. They're pop they're Yeah. laying.

laying down, >> right? So, most people though say. they'll give Black Sabbath a pass on. their first debut, their debut album. Say like, "Okay, that was kind of. bluesy." And it is, but it's still. pretty meddy. Um, but they're like, "Your second album, Paranoid. Sorry, that is definitely metal. War Pigs is. about as metal as metal gets still to. this day. >> Yeah, I mean, Paranoid is ranked as the. number one metal album of all time by. Rolling Stone. So, there you go. >> Well, then there's no arguing with that. >> Uh, I agree. And I think we should take.

a break and maybe come back and talk. about a a very um unfortunate kind of. legendary incident that happened to. Black Sabbath early in their career. right after this. [Music]. [Music].

All right. So, we're back with part two. of six of the heavy metal uh duogy. And. I I promised a little bit of talk about. um a famous incident, a very sad one. involving Black Sabbath early in their. career. And that is when Tony Iomi, their brilliant left-handed guitar. player, >> uh was a teenager. He worked at a steel. mill in Birmingham, England. He was on. his last shift. Uh, apparently he was.

heading out on tour uh with the band and. he came home on a lunch break and almost. didn't even go back and his mom said, "Get your butt back there. You got to. finish your job, boy." And he went, "Okay, mom." And he went back and. proceeded to lose the the ends of his uh. middle finger and ring finger. >> on his right hand. Uh, but remember he's. a left-handed guitar player, so if it. was the other way around, he could still. hold the pick and probably be okay. But.

this is the hand that is on the neck, so. he was missing a large uh large portions. of his digits that make that pretty. vital. >> Yeah. I also read that this was the. first time he used a metal press because. the guy who normally did it was out and. so they had Tommy Tony Iomi uh cover his. shift for the first time ever. >> Like last shift ever before he goes out. on tour. Like that's just crazy that. that happened. But that was actually a. gift to metal in a lot of ways because. he had to um basically adapt. Apparently.

Django Reinhardt lost like some fingers. or a hand or something crazy like that. >> It was a fire that basically he only had. use of two fingers uh on on his fretting. hand. >> Okay. Well, somebody told that story to. Tony Iomi and it inspired him to just. get back in there. He made prosthetics. himself for his fingers. Apparently, they worked. So, so, so instead he had. to adapt by he loosened the strings uh. by downtuning. So, everything had a a.

deeper like heavier sound to it. The. same notes that that standard tuning. would produce. It had a deeper sound. He. wasn't necessarily doing it for the. deeper sound. He was doing it because. the looser strings were easy for easier. for him to bend with what he had left of. his fingers. That was a huge development. that came out of the loss of those. fingertips. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh, also we switched to. lighter strings. Uh, he couldn't play as. fast. So that's why Black Sabbath has. that terrific just sort of grungy slog.

and it's not like that kind of fast. metal. It's cuz Tony, you know, he, like. you said, he made these things out of. wax and leather and if he played fast. enough, they would fly off his finger. and uh so he had to kind of slow it down. and that's why they had that sort of. deep sludgy grind. >> Yeah. One of the other things I love. about Sabbath, too, is they like their. studio albums contain like mess ups, like blatant mess ups, like um they'll. just like miss the beat on drums or. something like that once in a while, and. they just kept going and released it on.

the album. I love that about them. >> I listen right before we recorded. I I. have the 180 gram versions of uh their. their debut, which has the most. terrifying album cover of all time to. me. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, I think so. Uh and uh Masters of uh. or I think Master of Reality or is it. Masters? I can't remember. Um and then I. ordered I realized I didn't even have. Paranoid, so I ordered that. Oh, really? Uh stat. >> Nice work, Chuck. >> Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a that's.

something we'll talk a little more about. album art later, but um that's. definitely something that's missing in. the the day and age of like listening to. stuff digitally. >> Yeah. >> You don't have that record album to like. look at while you're listening and. that's like part of the experience, right? >> But I will say that I noticed recently I. was listening to. >> Somewhere in Time the Iron Maiden album. and the album art on my iPhone moves. now. So Eddie like they they show him. like shooting the guy who's like just.

out of frame. You just see his hand, his. eyes light up. Like it's really cool. It's worth downloading the album just to. see that alone, let alone for the music. So I'm glad that that developed, but. it's still not quite the same as holding. like a record album like cover and. looking at it. >> Yeah, for sure. Um the 70s also included. of course Judas Priest as you mentioned. Uh Iron Maiden started in 1975 uh with a. different lead singer. That's if you're. not super into Iron Maiden and you just. kind of remember the 80s music videos.

with the the great Bruce Dickinson up. front. >> Uh their first two records, uh Killers. and and just I think it was self-titled, right? >> Uh yeah. Iron Maiden and then Killers. and they were both it was Paul Paul. Diano was their first lead singer. >> I like those records. >> Let's talk a little bit about Maiden. right now. You want to? >> Yeah. You want to get into it? >> Yeah. because. it's really pretty much impossible to. overstate the influence that Iron Maiden. had on. >> you. >> metal,

>> you know. >> Yeah. No, I agree. >> Like if you if you ask some of the. people who make up the big four of. thrash bands, um Metallica, Mega Death. Slayer, and Anthrax, they're they're. basically like we wouldn't we wouldn't. exist if it weren't for Iron Maiden. Like we loved Maiden so much we decided. to form our own band. We were inspired. to form our own band and it just keeps. going down the line. Band after band. after band. Started out loving Iron. Maiden. It's such a great entree. Yeah. >> Into heavy metal music because it's so.

listenable. >> Yeah. Totally. >> It's melodic. The lyrics are really. interesting. Like the themes of the. songs are really um varied. And I was. evidence of this. The poster art alone. can get you into Iron Maiden. Like I had. my room covered in Iron Maiden posters. before I listened to them at all. Yeah, I mean we should talk about that for a. second then. Their mascot is Eddie. If. you've ever seen an Iron Maiden album. cover or poster or live video where they. have big, you know, giant Eddie walking. around and stuff like a puppet, I guess.

>> Um, he's their mascot and he was uh. drawn by a guy named Derek Riggs and he. was originally he was called Eddie the. Head and then just the head. But in. their British accent, the Edro. H's. Oh, is that right? >> It just became Ed, then Eddie is how. they eventually wound up with Eddie. >> Very nice. And he's been on every single. of this the 17 albums that they've. released. Most of the singles, apparently not all. I don't know why,

but he's usually kind of like altered to. represent whatever that that particular. album is about, right? >> Yeah, for sure. Um like uh he was a. inmate in a in a mental institution for. peace of mind. Uh, I do love the cover. of Powers Slave when he's he's a pharaoh. in the in the desert. Pretty cool. >> Apparently, when they toured that um. that album, they had like a 30foot like. actual build of that as the backdrop for. their stage show.

>> Of course they did. Why would you not? >> Exactly. You know, >> but yeah, Eddie was boss just Eddie. alone. And he's a good example of why. the loss of like an album cover is. really like a big deal because man, it. doesn't get any better than Iron Maiden. album covers. >> No, agreed. Uh they came out in 1975 and. uh believe it or not, De Leopard was was. also debuting along with Motorhead and. they were grouped together as what's. called the new wave of British heavy. metal. >> and that was sort of happening happening.

concurrently with uh the punk scene. which is interesting because punk and. metal to me are very different but there. are some sort of tendrils that work. through both of those kinds of music. >> Yeah. Uh and that's where those first. two albums definitely they were. definitely influenced. Paul Deanna was. definitely influenced by punk. So it was. a lot more it was a lot closer to. hardcore than the albums that Bruce. Dickinson helmed starting with their. third album, Number of the Beast, which. is when the band just broke through and. became Metal Gods. That was back in.

1982. >> Yeah. Dickinson brought that sort of. oporatic flourish, the theatrical uh. like some of his I was listening today. and sometimes he literally goes like and. that kind of thing which is like you got. to love it. He really leaned into it. >> for sure. And I like I don't know how I. like I'm I'm not such a fan that I know. who actually writes the songs. I've. always presumed Bruce Dickinson did, but. usually it turns out to be like the the. guitarist or something like that. But. their songs are really really.

interesting and they're really varied. Like they cover history a lot. Like. there's a song about World War II pilots. called Aces High. There's a song about. Alexander the Great. about um uh white. Europeans and Americans overrunning. Native Americans in North America. Um. Run to the Hills, that's on um Number of. the Beast, too. >> Great song. >> Um they have some really like uplifting, encouraging messages in their songs like. Can I Play with Madness and Wasted. Years. >> They even have a song about the.

loneliness of a long-distance runner. And that's what it's about. >> Yeah. >> And it's really it's a great song. like. it like they they they follow the pace. and like the slow down and then the. speed up again once he gets his second. wind. Like it's a really well done song, but it's about a long-distance runner. running a marathon by himself. >> Yeah. One of the things I haven't gotten. around to yet in my um recent. documentary binge is I know there's a. really good Iron Maiden documentary that. came out I think last year. >> or or semi-reently and I haven't checked.

that out yet, but that's on the list. like even higher now. >> Sure. And if you're like, well, okay, how big is Iron Maiden? Well, we've got. a few stats for you. One, Chuck, um, back in 2012, the Queen's 60year. Jubilee. >> Mhm. >> Um, the UK held some polls to say like. to to figure out what the best of the. best was of the last 60 years. The best. British record album of the last 60. years, voted by citizens of of the UK,

was number of the beast, Iron Maiden. So. just best record, >> the best record, the Beatles were from. Britain. Don't forget all of those guys. who were the progenitors of heavy metal. were from Britain. Iron Maiden's number. of the beast was voted the number one. record in the last 60 years in in Great. Britain. >> All right, here's my statement on that. >> Okay, >> I don't doubt you. I just want to know a. little bit more about the robustness of. this poll and like, okay,

>> who was pulled? It's It's shocking to me. that that would be number one over like. the Stones or the Beatles or Led. Zeppelin or just bands that were just. way way way more popular. >> I totally get you and I triple check. that to make sure that that was not just. like some misinformed fan. >> like that. >> I just want to see the the I want to see. where they took this poll, like how it. was done. That's what I want to know. >> But they they got almost 10% of the. vote, so it's pretty good. You're like, it was in the parking lot of an Iron. Maiden show, right?

>> So, they've also sold 130 million copies. of their 17 albums. >> Not bad. Even Lady Gaga is a fan, right? >> Yeah. I mean, I think she was knocked. out by their fandm or stand. Uh because. she was like, "What I see in Iron. Maiden's fan base is what I want for. myself." Like, they are so wholly. dedicated. Uh, and that's something I. think that's true for a lot of metal. bands, but they seem to be even more so. than a lot of metal bands.

>> Yeah. And I mean like worldwide, if you go to South America, they can. fill a stadium every night for a month. Like people around the world love Iron. Maiden. I just think it's great because. they're a great band. There's not a. bunch of controversy controversy. They're not like um preoccupied with. like bringing the full um the full power. of Satan to bear on his non-believers. like right. >> they're just actually a lot of their. stuff is pretty encouraging at the very. least super interesting. So they're they.

like they're just a good band to be. beloved worldwide I think. >> Totally agree. Um I still think I'm. Judas Priest more. I was listening to. British Steel today and uh they're. they're both great. They're kind of side. by side for me actually. >> Okay. I I have to like add to my. original top five, maybe even current. top five. I really like Motorhead a lot. Yeah. I don't own a Motorhead t-shirt. I. really haven't heard much beyond their. Ace of Spades album, but I love what I. hear of Motorhead. I like their whole. jam. They're another band that said.

like, "We're not heavy metal.". >> Yeah, that's true. But they they were. kind of the progenitors of speed metal, I think, in a lot of ways. Um, you know, the Scorpions came out in ' 65 in. handover. I know I've recommended uh The. Sales of Sharon uh as a very amazing. YouTube thing to go watch if you want to. see some pre-80s scorpions. >> Okay. >> Uh De Leopard came out in 77. See, this. is where Livia has a couple listed like. Van Halen and Blue Oyster Cult and. Aerosmith and AC/DC that I don't think.

any of those bands are metal. >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You don't. think Van Halen is metal? >> Not at all. >> Oh, I disagree with you. Yeah, I I think. they're not metal at all. >> All right. I'm going to say that I think. that they qualify as metal. >> Interesting. Have you ever heard David. Lee Roth? >> I have. I have. >> I've heard Ice Cream Man. >> Yes, I know that they have other stuff, but I'm saying like I think they're like.

the stuff that sounds like metal is. metal. >> I don't think it sounds like metal at. all. I just think they're a rock band. Have you heard Panama? >> Yeah, that didn't sound metal to me at. all. >> I know. I'm just kidding. >> Okay. >> I can't think of a single metal song of. theirs. I think it's mostly just just. Eddie Van Halen's playing. >> that I'm like, that's metal, man. >> Oh, see, not to me. That's just virtuos. virtuostic, right? Uh rock guitar lead. to me. I mean, and also just, you know,

they didn't sing about those things. There was no darkness. There was no, you. know, the way they dressed like Eddie. Van Halen wore overalls on stage. >> Hey, Randy Rhodess wore a polka dot um. like Chip andale's vest, >> right? >> So, let's not get into that. >> All right. So, anyway, just my opinion. I knew. >> that's just mine, too. Uh, but let's. talk about just the I mean I guess this. is a nice segue into the words heavy. metal because like I said, people can.

nitpick this stuff to death what heavy. rock was or when it transitioned into. metal. >> Um, there's a sociologist named Dena. Weinstein that uh, Livia found that um, tried to kind of root out the origins of. the the lit literal phrase heavy metal. Uh, it was in Born to be Wild by Stephen. Wolf. uh you know, heavy metal thunder, but that wasn't talking about music. That was talking about cars and stuff, >> right? I I I I don't know. It could have. it could have influenced it to some.

degree or whatever, but it doesn't seem. like the direct answer. >> Yeah. >> If you ask me, William S. Burroughs. apparently puts up a pretty good. argument for the guy who coined heavy. metal or at least um put it out there. and that it was adopted to eventually. describe that genre of music. That's not. at all what he was doing. He had a. character um from his Nova trilogy. called Uranium Willie, the heavy metal. kid. Okay. I I don't know enough about. William S. Bro's writing to know if like. Uranium Willie was like metal in like.

the metal sense. >> Yeah. >> Um but he also had a drug called heavy. metal that appeared in some of his other. works, not Naked Lunch, but in other. works. That to me makes a that you could. make a pretty good argument that I would. I would buy that that ultimately maybe. led to the use of heavy metal to. describe heavy metal. >> Yeah, I think both of those things had. put it out into the public consciousness. as two words that can be said together. >> Uh but for my money, you got to go with.

Lester Bangs. Uh this was in 1970 and uh. I think he was writing for Rolling Stone. at the time, but the legendary rock uh. critic and writer uh in one of his. reviews in 1970 said he was complaining. It was a negative thing. He said, "All. the heavy metal robots of years past of. the year past. >> when he was talking about the albums of. 1970, he's talking about 1969." and he. proceeded uh by a few months uh a guy. named Mike Saunders, eventually known as. Metal Mike, uh who described Humble Pie.

as a noisy, unloic, heavy metal laden uh. poop rock band. >> Yeah, thank you for changing S to poop. >> Yeah, deserve the moral purity of our. podcast. >> They they both use the words heavy metal. to describe music, I think, for the. first time in 1970. Yeah, but they were Yeah, they were. negative reviews. Um, that's that's. possible. I think Dena Weinstein says. like that's a real possibility. She put. something out that I thought was pretty.

interesting, too. She pointed out that a. lot of these bands came from Birmingham, England, and Detroit, Michigan, which. apparently were very similar at the. time. They're very polluted, dirty, industrial, working-class cities, and. that the fans of heavy metal um also. hailed from those areas too, or areas. like them. Um, and that that they would. be familiar with like the feel of heavy. metal. Um, like the not the feel, what's. the word I'm looking for?

>> The um, >> sensibility. >> No, more like the um, just the like what. the term can kind of bring to mind. You. know what I'm saying? And associating. that with music. But somebody from, you. know, super nice town, USA, right, >> who whose experience with metal is the. nails holding their white picket fence. together, they might not be able to be. like, "Yeah, heavy metal really. describes this music." But the kids in. Detroit and Birmingham probably could. And I thought that was an interesting.

point. >> Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Um, oh jeez, look at where we are. Why don't we take. another break, >> okay? and we'll come back uh and talk. about how the genre started to grow and. sort of uh split into subg genres right. after this. >> This is going to be fun. [Music].

Okay, Chuck. So, the early '7s or the. mid70s to early 80s gave us the um. British wave, the new British wave of. heavy metal, right? Laid the foundation. You would call most of that just heavy. metal. like it's just so classic they. don't even fit into subg genres. They. just gave the world heavy metal from. that point. It just started to split.

And one of the ways that it started to. split was by spreading. And it didn't. spread through radio. Radio was afraid. of heavy metal almost from the outset. >> So bands were forced to basically say, "Let's just get out on the road. Let's. go to our fans rather than relying on. other people to help boost our. popularity." And so touring and massive. tours became just a part of being a. heavy metal band, especially in the. early 80s throughout the 80s. Um, and.

they would make stage shows that people. would talk about for years afterwards. Like we talked about the Iron Maiden. 1983 Powers Slave or 845 Powers Slave. Tour. Um, and what their stage show. looked like. Like that's the kind of. stuff they were doing. >> Yeah, for sure. uh the '8s of course. that's when hair metal comes onto the. scene and that's when I and MTV that's. when I started getting into it a little. bit despite my you know early. alternative music leanings and also. loving like Billy Joel at the time and. stuff like that. >> Sure. >> So I was all over the place but uh you.

know Rat comes along, Mly Crew comes. along, your your band Poison Cinderella. another band that I love. Uh I mean we. could go through them. LA Guns, Whit. Snake, Hanoi Rocks, Slaughter Skidro. Dawan, Wasp. >> Warrant. Warrant, Quiet Riot, Twisted. Sister. Uh, and we have to mention this. band because um it was kind of the. beginnings of some some really dark. metal. And that is a band called. Merciful Fate. >> Yeah. >> Uh, from lead singer King Diamond, who. would later after Merciful Fate, I think.

Merciful Fate was 1980 to 84. And then. after that, uh, King Diamond, which is. obviously a stage name, went on to form. the band King Diamond. And they were. very dark sort of darker metal and used. what's known as corpse paint like the. black and white makeup paint on a space. >> Yes. >> And very influential early uh I guess. dark metal. >> Yeah, for sure. The other band that. typically gets pointed to as the the. basis of death of death metal in.

particular is Possessed. They were from. San Francisco. >> Okay. >> They released an album called Seven. Churches in 1985. That was another one. that I was like where where was I? What. was I doing? >> Like, this was right in my wheelhouse. Like, >> how did I not hear of Possessed? How did. I not hear of Venom? Like, I did not. This stuff did not cross my path. And. this, it's like actual legit death. metal, but it's from 1985. Death Metal. wouldn't really start to take off until. the later 80s, early 90s.

>> Yeah. >> And we should just say death metal is. like that like, you know, the growling. >> like lyrics that you just can't. understand. And you have to read the. lyrics while you're listening. >> Yeah. >> That is death metal. That's like the key. characteristic of death metal that that. anybody could come along and be like, "Oh, that's different than the other. stuff I'm listening to because of this.". >> Yeah, for sure. And you know, the why. you didn't know about it is because you. had to know the person who knew about it. cuz it wasn't on the radio. Stuff like. that wasn't even on MTV. I mean, maybe. maybe you might see something like that.

as a deep cut on Headbangers Ball later. on, >> uh, hosted by the great Ricky Rockman. >> Yeah. But uh otherwise you just had to. know the dude who was like, "Hey man, have you heard this?". >> Yeah. And so so they gave birth to. Morbid Angel Autopsy. Cannibal Corpse is. a very very famous um uh death metal. band from the late 80s. And it just. keeps going on and on and on. Um our uh. longtime listener, I think she still. listens. I haven't talked to her in a. while. Alisa White Gloves um from the.

band Archeneemy. >> She listens or she used to. But. Archeneemy is a melodic Swedish death. metal band. >> Yeah. >> It's just a bunch of subg genres put. into one. But if you listen to Alisa. Singh, she's doing that death metal like. gut roll singing too. It's just part of. death metal. No matter what that genre. is carved into. >> Yeah, for sure. Not fully my thing. Uh I. was into a little bit of industrial.

metal that came around in the mid80s. M. >> uh Ministry of course is the band that. comes to mind from Chicago who were a. little more of a synth pop. They were. not what they became for sure early on, but they they kind of led the way for. the industrial music scene in the mid80s. uh when their 86 album Twitch came out. >> Yeah. And that's that's I went in that. direction toward industrial in addition. to new wave stuff. Like I really like. Nitsereb and Mebeat Manifesto.

Um, Skinny Puppy. >> None of those would qualify as metal, but I guess Ministry kind of bridged. that was the bridge between metal and. just straight up industrial. >> God Flesh, they were another one that. was no question industrial metal. And. again, go listen to God Flesh's I guess. first album. I can't remember what it's. called, but it's like a black background. with a white minimalist kind of face all. up in your face. >> Um, and it you'll be like, "Wait, this. is metal." And you if you listen to it,

you you'll say, "Yes, this is metal.". They use a drum machine and you're like, "Okay, well, that seems like cheating.". No, they use a drum machine because no. human being could play drums at this. slow a pace and not like fall asleep or. die from boredom, right? So, they have a. really slow tempo, but with traditional. like distortion and guitars and singing. um that you would associate with metal. and you put it all together and it is. really good. Yeah, I I saw a cool. interview with uh uh the great Mike.

Patton of Faith No More and Mr. Bungle, one of the greatest singers ever in any. genre. Uh and he was singing the praises. of God Flesh. And I went and listened to. a little bit of it and I was like, man, this is like very very heavy stuff. >> It is. It is. Oh, it's super super dark. But they were from Birmingham, too. So. this is like So Birmingham is to metal. what Manchester was to Brit pop. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like it just was this center. And what's. crazy is it was a center for a really. long time. I think there's still bands.

coming out of Birmingham that are. noteworthy. Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh the Grammys got on board in. 1989 and all the wrong ways they. introduced best hard rock/metal. performance. >> and Metallica's injustice for All very. famously lost out to Jethro. Uh they had a comeback album called. Crest of a Nave. >> and everybody immediately was like. Grammys, you've never seen more out of. touch with what's going on in the world. >> And so pretty quickly they were like,

"Oh, maybe we'll split the categories.". And uh the next year it was hard rock uh. a hard rock award and a metal award, but. they even messed that up. Like you know, bands like Sound Garden won uh the metal. category and stuff like that. And like. they're not metal either. Well, the. Grammys aren't really known for being. super in touch with underground stuff. And that's it's interesting because the. reason why groups like Sound Garden won. the metal. >> um Grammy at the time was because Grunge. just took over. >> and it actually pushed um uh metal right.

out of the limelight. The ear like. basically starting January 1st, 1990, grunge just took over and it stayed that. way for years and then metal started to. kind of come back. Uh, in a way, um, New. Metal came along in the mid to late 90s. So, like you had Slipnot and K. >> Um, Lincoln Park, I guess, qualifies. I'm not either, but I know a lot of. people are like a lot of people. >> got back into metal thanks to these.

guys. They basically, they were like, "Hey, you like uh you like grunge, you. like alternative, we're going to help. transition you back to metal." And then. there was a a something called the new. wave of American heavy metal starting in. the early 2000s that took back over from. new metal and brought it back to like. legit serious metal like As I Lay Dying, Lamb of God, and of course High and Fire. >> and a bunch of other bands that are. still coming out um in America and. around the world. So, metal came back. Whether you like new metal or not, you.

can thank them for bringing metal back. from obscurity in the late 90s, early. 2000s. >> Thank you, K. >> Yeah, thanks a lot, K. >> Uh, alt metal was a thing, too. Uh, in. the in the late 90s and kind of early. 2000s, I think people consider Tulle. kind of an alt metal band. >> Uh, band called System of a Down. Um, I. listen to some Tulle, but they're. another band that I know that has a very. very very uh hardcore loyal following. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh, and then progressive. metal, um, that had kind of been around.

in the 80s, like a band like Queens. Reich, who I never really like that. much, uh, could probably be considered. Prague metal, uh, as well as a band. called Dream Theater, who are also very. popular and very, uh, have fans that are. like super loyal. >> Mhm. I remember listening to Queens. Reich Operation Mind Crime as like a. 12-year-old, and being like, I don't get. it. >> Yeah. >> This is way too way too grown up for me. Right. Exactly. I don't know. >> You know what the crime is? >> These lyrics. >> Yeah. Uh Panta was another one that.

actually kept metal alive during the. grunge years. They I did not know this. Panta started out, the Cowboys from Hell. started out as a glam rock band, spandex, big hair, and everything. >> And eventually they shifted into more of. a metal sound. And they were one of the. pioneers of what's called groove metal, which is essentially what it sounds. like. It's catchier metal. I think. there's more refrains to it. Um, and I'm. just speaking musically. It's not it's.

it has nothing to do with like jam bands. or anything like that. It's just as far. as metal goes. It's probably the. grooviest version of metal you could you. could do. >> Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate. >> A couple other things. Chuck, did we. talk about the big four? >> Yeah, we talked a bit about the big four. earlier of thrash bands, which is of. course Metallica, Meade Death, Anthrax, and uh Slayer. Mhm. Were you into Slayer. or Meade Death or Metallica or Anthrax? >> No, I was I got into Metallica at one. point when I lived in New Jersey because.

a friend of mine listened to them and so. I listen to Master of Puppets and Ride. the Lightning and Injustice for All. Like those are great records. Um, a little bit of anthrax here and there, but those generally weren't my thing. Um, definitely never really listen to. Mega Death. Um, I know Dave Mustain has. a has a reputation in the industry. He. was let go of from Metallica. >> Yeah. and hasn't stopped complaining. about it for 43 years. >> I saw an interview with him that he. where he said like I I own that like I.

was like I had to quit drinking because. I was so just aggro and violent whenever. I did. But yeah, he was not happy about. it. But metal fans are happy because he. went on to found Mega Death basically to. spite Metallica and they became huge in. their own right. But I was never into. them. I really want to be into Slayer. Like I have Rain and Blood. Uhhuh. >> on my phone, which is not a super metal. thing to say, but it's the truth. Um, and I just like I can listen to it, but. I'm not like, damn, this is good. Like,

I just can't get into Slayer. And I've. never really been in a mega death. despite trying to. >> was when he uh left, he said, I'll show. you guys. I'll go on to found a band. that will never be as good or as popular. as you will be. >> I know it's got seriously, I hope it. doesn't stick in his crawl because that. is that would be hard to get over. I. think he's kind of well known in the. industry. There's a couple of metal. people that a lot of metal people don't. like. Dave Mustain is one and then Lars. Olrich, the drummer from Metallica is. another. Uh even Metallica fans, there's.

a lot of them that are like, "Oh god, Lars, just shut up.". >> Well, what do you think about Yeah, he. does. Yeah, because some of them are so. like um vocal. >> about their opinions and how awesome. they are and how terrible other bands. are. >> Yeah, sure. >> Yeah, I'm sure. How about this? Let's. say we wrap it up talking a little bit. about black metal and then we'll move on. to part two. What do you think? >> That sounds good. >> Okay. So, we can't wrap before we talk. about black metal, which was something. that also emerged out of thrash or.

actually I think it emerged out of death. metal to tell you the truth. But where. death metal is like guttural um black. metal is screaming. essentially. Uh it's just a higher. pitched of um not understandable lyrics. You have to read the lyrics along with. it. But it is so death metal is like. gory and like just go look at Cannibal. Corps's Butchered at Birth album cover. and you'll get an idea of what death.

metal is about. >> Yeah. Black metal is legit the kind of. satanic metal that the the the sensors. of the 1980s and the the um pastors of. the satanic panic were actually scared. of that didn't exist yet. Black Metal is. that. >> So does like does is Merciful Fate and. King Diamond do they are they thrown. into that group? Uh, I think the. progenitors of black metal were Venom. all the way back in in um 1981. They.

were actually part of the new new wave. of British heavy metal. They like they. had a picture of Baffomet in a upside. down star um on the cover, right? So, I. could see Suburban Parents being. actually scared of Venom. Um, Baie from. Sweden, they were another one from 1984. And then Mayhem is the one that like. took black metal into like the actual. like this is kind of scary um realm and. because they actually did stuff in real. life that involved like death and.

suicide and murder and um church arson. and stuff like that. It was like the the. Norwegian black medal in particular. their scene at least it it was. >> kind of dangerous. It's really just you. you can't say that that's not true. >> Well, yeah. Like you said, there was a a. literal murder in the band Mayhem. Uh. and uh I will issue a huge trigger. warning and and encourage you not to go. look this up, but uh you can't talk.

about Mayhem without talking about the. uh the the worst album cover of all. time. Uh Dawn of the Black Hearts is a a. photograph. It was a bootleg album uh. but became very famous because it showed. a photograph that the band took of uh an. image of their lead singer um right. after he had uh died by suicide with by. shotgun and it's awful. >> Yeah. >> No other way to describe it but just. horrific. >> It's essentially a closeup and it's. exactly what you would think it looked.

like. But like that was their album. cover, a bootleg album like you said. True, but the the the picture was taken. by one of Mayhem's uh band members, Uranomous, who apparently arranged the. scene to make it a better looking photo, and hadn't even like contacted the the. cops yet to say like, "Hey, my friend uh. killed himself. Um he was taking. pictures of it instead." So like this. was like this was this is black metal. Well, um there it's also rife with white.

supremacists. Um, and I'm not so I I. don't I'm sure positive that there are. black metal bands out there that are um. not down with all of that, but are still. really good. >> But I would guess that they're not the. majority. And I don't mean to put down. the whole thing and sound like a a pearl. clutching like parent cuz I'm not. I'm. just trying to get across like how. >> like legitimate what these guys are. saying is. And like if you read the.

lyrics, they're like, "Wow, this is. really nuts, man. It's cool." And I. don't actually know where these guys. fall, like if they're white supremacists. or or anything. But I know that they are. exemplary of Norwegian or Scandinavian. black metal called Emperor. >> And they have a song called The Loss and. the Curse of Grace, I think. Okay. >> It's got a great video. Like it's it's a. really cool song. Read the lyrics along. with the song. Okay. >> And you'll be like, "Okay, I understand.

black metal. That's a great entree to. it, I think.". >> All right, I'll do it. >> Okay. But I don't I'm not really into. the sound because I've read that it's. deliberately meant to be noisy and put. off people like me. >> Squares. >> Yeah. I'm just Let's just say it. Yes. Squares who aren't into black metal from. Scandinavia. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. Uh that's a superersized part. one. I think we'll probably have the. superersized part two and uh there. there's also going to be a fun little uh.

short stuff this week. So, I guess we. should just call this metal week. Uh and. we don't do um listener mails at the end. of a part one, right? >> No. No, we don't. >> So, take us home, baby. >> Okay. You ready? >> Yeah. >> We are going to stop. We are going to. stop. We are going to We are going to We. are going to stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. We. are going to stop here. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart.

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