Gobekli Tepe | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and Chuck's here and it's just us. and that's fine and this is stuff you. should know one of my favorite types of. additions the distant past let's figure. it out Edition and it's so surprising. Edition oh man you have always loved. this stuff huh I certainly have it it.

jazzes me at least as much as Earth. Science yeah I think you know the. age-old uh question like if you could. you know have a have a real wake Wayback. machine and go back and go to like any. concert your answer would be like. something where Tuk Tuk like took bones. and banged it on rocks just so I could. see what was going on uh yeah from a. distance as long as he didn't know I was. there cuz I assume I would get beaten to. death by that same guy you know you're.

like that in craft work's first store I. saw craftwork at the Disney like Concert. Hall in La now I'm very jealous of that. show I'll I'll tell you about that every. time man that was a great show looks. amazing yeah they had like a 3D light. display and everything oh man one day um. yeah one day they're still touring as. far as I know so not they don't get. around here that much you know no but. when they do go see them no for sure.

also uh while we're on recommendations I. watched a movie that i' just been. passing over for a years now that was. actually worth the watch it's a. mindbending horror movie called. triangle I think Australian cuz I'm. pretty sure just about everybody in it. Australian but they're pretending to be. American okay um but it's uh it it's you. know how often like mind-bending movies. that like mess with like just reality. and stuff like just fall apart at some.

point this one stayed tight from. beginning to end it was yeah it was a. good movie I would definitely recommend. it I mean I don't think it won any. Oscars or anything like that but it was. definitely worth watching you know what. you can take the Oscar award and stick. it right up the collective butt of the. world there you go this just called. triangle just triangle yes all right. okay never heard of it you I'll hang out. here you go watch it and then come back. and we'll talk about it 2009 British.

film is what it says is that possible I. thought it was like 2018 does it look. like there's a person wearing like a bag. over their head in the on the poster no. that's another one triangle I want to. say 2018 fear comes in waves probably it. yes it looks very B movie but I I'll. give you the benefit of the doubt here. that's what I thought too that can be. good I totally thought it looked B too. and then I was like this is really good. this movie hasn't gotten enough credit. from me okay.

all right I'll check it out okay so all. of the archaeology and anthropology fans. are like shut up and start talking. about gockley Tey I don't know why that. was hard it's really actually a very. easy word to say or pair of words yeah I. saw tee actually I don't know how. specific that gets though o la la that's. spoken by people who raise their pinkies. when they drink their tea yeah but a. teepe is is like a mound or Hill correct.

yeah go gockley means belly so people. take it to basically mean pop belly Hill. yeah and this this is a place in turkey. and it is a an uh a place where a lot of. archaeological um digging is still going. on uh and it was one of these places. that is uh and I know you love this kind. of thing more than anything but like. when an archaeological find kind of. upends traditional thought of how we. thought things were and this is one of. the great examples of that yeah.

especially when it's true and not like. pseudo science like somebody's like it's. it was Ancient Aliens well where's the. proof they're like it was Ancient Aliens. man don't don't harsh my mellow well you. want to hear something funny what part. of what I watched on YouTube about this. was from the show Ancient Aliens yeah. yeah there's a lot of like pseudo. archaeology that surrounds this that you. have to kind of be careful of yeah for. sure this is like true like this truly. has upended our current or yeah I guess.

still basically our current. understanding um and that that is thus. we've told this story many many times on. this podcast and it turns out that it's. probably at least oversimplified if not. just outright incorrect but the whole. basis of what we're talking about um has. to do with the Neolithic Revolution. which says that somewhere around 10. 11,000 years ago people in the F Fertile. Crescent Mesopotamia um started to. settle down raise crops.

um and as they were able to support more. people more and more people came and. moved to that area they domesticated. animals cities sprung up and then from. the cities hierarchies grew and then we. had kingdoms and wars and all sorts of. stuff and also Arts culture architecture. all that stuff developed from the people. first settling down and domesticating. crops becoming sedentary like. transitioning from Hunter gathers to. Farmers essentially and that that was. the start of all the other stuff that.

followed gockley Tey um turns that on. its head essentially that's right and. this was one of those discoveries that. uh like I said really sort of upends. everything that we thought to be true um. the the real Discovery and you know. we'll kind of get to um what had. happened before this but the big big. find was in. 1994 and that's when you know uh. archaeologist started really literally. digging into it um it had been known to. to locals there you know for a while.

obviously cuz uh it's sort of like the. sherpa they're like I climb this. mountain all the time right um there. were people living nearby in Turkey in. the 1960s even that were finding pretty. cool stuff here uh but it wasn't until. 1994 that they made the big big. Discovery and really like I said started. digging in and forming opinions over um. and you know we'll get to these cuz they. still haven't settled on exactly what. gcle teepe was.

no they haven't which explains why we. haven't said what it is yet but that. that 1960 survey found a bunch of slabs. of limestone but they mistook what they. were they mistook their significance. they thought they were um gravestones. from a medieval cemetery and it would. turn out that they were. about. 11,000 years older than that uh because. what go gobec teepe was when they. started digging it up in the '90s under. the leadership of a guy named CLA.

Schmidt who was the guy who saw this and. was like this is not a natural formation. this is clearly human-made let's see. what's underneath this hill um he found. that this is essentially a Neolithic. settlement that dates back at its. earliest spot as far as we know to about. 11,600 years before today yeah and you. know the significance of all of this if. we haven't been clear enough is. that basically they're dating this um. long before like hundreds maybe even a.

thousand years before what we thought. was when people started settling down. and becoming Farmers which led to all. the you know modern advances eventually. that we know today like you mentioned. right um so this was a long long time. before that uh when we were like no no. no at the time people were just moving. around um hunting and Gathering and and. kind of just uh I don't know about. struggling to survive but subsistence. living mhm um you know from season to.

season that kind of thing MH and 94 like. you said was when Schmidt came in there. and he got pretty excited like so. excited that he bought a house nearby. and set up camp and said all right this. is going to be the base for me and my. small team uh anytime students are. coming over here they can stay here and. this is now the official home base of. this extraordinarily interesting. archaeological site yeah and he would go. on to lead the um the the dig at gocke.

um until his death I think at age 60 in. 2014 if I'm not mistaken he else you. know well this was like he he was like. well here's my career this is what I'm. doing for the rest of my life like. there's totally there's they've been. they've been digging at gcle tee now for. what 30 years they've easily got another. 50 years of excavation left unless some. huge new technological advance in. archaeology comes along but using. current practices they have decades left.

of like exploration to do of this site. but what Schmidt found from the outset. just didn't make sense because like you. said they think that they were building. this before people even started to um. settle down and start farming which. means it was thousands of years before. people should have been able to create. things like this like massive structures. that um it takes a lot of people in a. coordinated manner to come up with a. coherent plan and then build this stuff.

and then also imbue it with symbolism as. we'll see it just did not make sense but. the date the radiocarbon dating was. right and so CL Schmidt was smart enough. to be like we might have this whole. Neolithic Revolution story wrong yeah uh. for sure so just sort of brass tax it is. in southern turkey uh it it's located at. the highest point of the germis uh G. rmus unfortunately named mountain range. uh which is right on the edge of the.

Fertile Crescent there not. coincidentally and uh the mound itself. is about 50 feet tall covers about 22. acres and it was It was kind of one of. these things where basically he had gone. there um he knew that people nearby had. dug up some things that look like tools. and stuff like that he was like well. this is pretty interesting and when he. stood back and looked he was like that. Hill up there doesn't look like the rest. of these sort of flattish plateaus it's. more rounded and it looks like clearly.

formed by humans and that's when. everyone uh you know all the locals in. uh in their language said no duh we've. known this for a while so he said all. right you know I'm going to set up shop. here and they got to work starting with. that uppermost level which was uh what. did we figure it was like 10,000 is. years ago yes so the most recent use of. it was 10,000 years ago and um Livia. helped us with this and she pointed. something out that I thought is. definitely worth um mentioning the the.

gockley tee site was older to the people. who built the pyramids at Giza and. Stonehenge than the people who built the. pyramids and Stonehenge are to us it's. that ancient that brainers yeah. thousands and thousands of years old. that ancient when the people started. building the pyramids it's just yeah. like you said it's a a brain breaker. like how old old this thing was and then.

what they were able to do and what they. were able to do so by by the way no one. knows what culture this is um because. again it's not supposed to be a culture. from our understanding of people at the. time I've seen um interpretations of of. communities at around this time this um. what's called the pre potery Neolithic. which is a specific era in the Fertile. Crescent where there wasn't Pottery. Pottery existed elsewhere in the world. like Japan was making amazing um conch.

shell Pottery around this time China has. 20,000 year old Pottery but just in the. Fertile Crescent they hadn't started. making Pottery yet so they're called the. pre Pottery Neolithic um group. essentially um but suffice to say this. group got together and decided to build. this um at least as far back as 11,600. years ago and they stopped using it. about 10,000 years ago yeah so they. started top down um like you said the.

most recent use would be the stuff on. top obviously mhm and they started to. notice wow there are actually um. buildings here with straight walls so. that means that somebody shaped those it. wasn't just by pure chance or luck that. those walls ended up being straight yeah. uh they found these Limestone pillars uh. that were about 2 met high on this upper. level uh some of them had decorations on. them um these upper ones had etching. etchings of lions and then they started. going down uh obviously things were.

getting a little bit older and then they. said wow these pillars are getting a lot. bigger than the ones on top uh some of. these things are 15 to 18 ft High weigh. about 10 tons and they look like they're. arranged in very specific ways uh there. were at least 20 circles or ovals that. had um these that basically made up. these enclosures and there were you know. some of them actually were shaped in. such a way that uh they wondered like. it's no accident that they're shaped in.

the form of a triangle if you connect. them it like it might be like a. stonehinge kind of thing happening yeah. that's definitely one theory is that at. least part of this was a cosmic. Observatory um and yeah like you said. the the settlement overall the site. forms a um like some of the columns form. a equilateral triangle and then the. center of the site bcts that triangle. perfectly so it's just it's not. accidental and again people weren't. supposed to be using GE ometry even. rudimentary geometry at this point for.

thousands of more years and yet these. people were doing it um some of the. other things that they figured out is uh. the Limestone did come from the area but. it still came from hundreds of meters. away right so these you said 16 ft about. 5 1/2 M 10 tons rocks carved out of the. Limestone bedrock and then carried over. to the site and then raised um that. takes a lot of people even using like.

logs and rollers and things like that it. still takes a lot of coordination um and. yeah it takes a lot of determination too. and to me the fact that those columns. are smaller and smaller the more recent. you get and then bigger further down. almost suggests that there was like a. loss of enthusiasm over. time they got worn out I think so yeah. over over 1300 years or yeah 1300 years. they were like hey those inner levels. look great but do we really need that.

much head room that's right like the. tallest one Among Us is five and a half. feet right yeah they were shorter back. then I think uh but here's the thing. everything you mentioned there is. possible uh that limestone is pretty. soft as Stone goes and the Flint tools. that they had back then could have been. used to do something like this and. depending on who you talk to um some. people will say like you know it may. have taken a few hundred very determined. people to move these things people. Olivia found this this one guy an.

archaeologist named Edward Banning from. the University of Toronto that said nah. give me give me 20 grown men and I could. do this even without rollers yeah watch. yeah no no one ever called us. Bluff should we take a break yeah let's. take a break all right great setup. everyone's on the edge of their. Limestone seat and we'll be right back. [Music].

[Music]. okay Chuck so one of the things that I. mentioned earlier is that these people. not only created these huge pillars and. walls and and enclosures um they also.

put they they they carve them there's a. lot of symbols on this stuff and. essentially they're pictograms like. they're they're symbols that directly. represent the thing they are there's not. any inced meaning to it like if it's a. bird it's supposed to be a bird yeah and. there's a lot of um really readable. symbols like they're it's not like wow. it's photo realistic but you can clearly. see this is a bird this is a gazelle.

this is a fox this is a scorpion yeah. and um they started to notice that some. of the enclosures were essentially. dedicated to one kind of animal but the. biggest enclosure enclosure D was. there's a bunch of different animals on. the uh uh like scratched or carved into. the different kind of pillars and walls. and everything um and there's a lot of. interpretation just in that stuff alone. yeah for sure like uh the ones where. it's just like nothing but foxes they. think could uh have been a specific Clan.

uh because it was part of the clan. system like Clan of the Cave Bear yeah. they would have carved a bunch of Cave. Bears yeah so if it was a fox Clan they. may have just carve foxes but uh it. might make sense that the biggest one. cuz you know they're still you know as. we pointed out guessing as to what even. was going on and what all this stuff was. used for and what it all meant so uh I. think it just sort of makes sense that. maybe the biggest one was was maybe. where groupings of Clans came so they. were all represented by their favorite. football team pretty much yeah um one of.

the things also that gave away that fox. enclosure is that one of the carvings. says Foxes Rule and it's. foxz so clearly they were pretty in. foxes yeah exactly um so those pillars. too 16 ft 5 1 half meter 10 ton pillars. at the largest if you look at them they. actually represent people but they. represent like a really um uh.

nondescript type of person so these are. t-shaped pillars so at first I just. assume well that's like you know. shoulders and then like the head's. carved into the middle of the shoulders. wrong the T itself is actually the head. viewed from the side so that when you. look at the narrow ends on each side of. that top of the T that's the face in the. back of the head I thought that was a. really um strange artistic decision yeah. for sure uh the other thing too is I.

don't think we mentioned that kind of. one of the first theories was that uh or. maybe we did that it was kind of ritual. based because I think when they find. anything from this time they think well. this wasn't a permanent settlement. because they didn't have those so this. was just a place where they did rituals. and maybe sacrifices or whatever prayed. to whatever God um they did find things. like. masks uh that maybe were ceremonial at. least lent itself to the idea that that. could have been going on there um they.

did find some other images that uh. weren't as straightforward as as the. sort of clear ones that you describe. like um birds with human legs and they. speculate that could have been like. maybe people in costume at a at a ritual. or or a right that we're displaying here. in this little story uh and the fun part. about all this is that they seem to have. been drinking beer at the time because. there were beer brewing Vats nearby like. huge Vats it could Brew tens and tens of.

gallons at a time and that supports this. idea that this was a ritual place I mean. just the fact that they went to the. trouble of making this and then the fact. that they added these symbols to these. huge monoliths that they raised uh and. then the fact that there was beer. strongly supports that they were. essentially partying in one way or. another at gockley tee right um but in. addition to that in those very obvious. pictograms or pictographs there's also. some straight up symbols that are not.

immediately obvious that does suggest. that there's there was um meaning. encoded in it which would make it. writing uh there's a what looks like a. capital I that keeps popping up here or. there there's also a capital H that's. usually associated with the capital I um. and they think it's possible that. represented the summer solstice and the. winter solstice or day and night um. because it's just used so repeatedly one.

of the other reasons they think that is. a guy named Martin swatman who's a. engineering researcher from the. University of edra he um he analyzed uh. one of the um one of the pillars and. there's a bunch of different markings on. them and he interpreted them as. essentially a calendar that um not only. you could track the the year with but he. took it to be like a timestamp for uh a. potential comet impact that allegedly.

set off the younger dest mini Ice Age so. if that's true that means that they were. protor writing 7,000 years before the. Sumerians came up with the what's. considered the first alphabet 7,000. years yeah and then in addition to that. they they were able to track the. procession of Earth that they were able. to account for the wobble that changes. the the time and and days throughout the. year. um enough that they could create a a.

lunar calendar and they supposedly if. this actually is a time stamp they were. able to date things that were like major. celestial events like meteor showers or. again a potential Comm strike yeah and. this is like um I mean I guess we'll. talk about the significance of calendars. in a couple of ways here and later but. one one thing to think about is like if. you're hunter gatherers and you're not.

around very long like what do you need a. 12-month calendar for mhm uh another way. of looking at it and this kind of um. kind of lends itself to some of the. later theories is that uh well maybe. we'll hold on to that that'll be a nice. little teaser actually even I'm. teased but we can talk about this right. now uh which is the fact that they found. um remnants of uh bones and wild plants. and things that pretty much clearly. indicate that they had been butchered. and cooked there um mostly gazelle about.

60% were gazelle but they also had sheep. and deer and wild boar and and birds. like geese and ducks and cranes and. things like that so they were it seems. like they were eating and drinking. pretty well here they were uh this also. supports Chuck um because if they were. not farmers and they were just hunter. gatherers who would come to this area. you know occasionally uh and they were. making beer that supports that idea that. we talked about before that bread was. actually invented as a portable beer.

starter oh yeah I remember that old gim. this says that beer came before farming. then if this is what's going on here if. we're interpreting this correctly um so. that is very significant too the bones. and the plants that they found at the. site are all wild and that strongly. suggests to researchers not just us um. that these were these were Hunter. gathers they wer farmers at all there. was no sign of domesticated animal bones.

and even more if you look at all of the. animals on any of the Engravings or. carvings or sculptures they are all wild. animals too there's not a single sheep. or pig or anything like that any. domesticated animal to be found like. even the pig is the wild boar it's. they're just all wild animals and that. will become a little more sign. significant in a second yeah the other. thing too we didn't mention is uh that. lends itself to the uh idea that there.

were things were still very transient. was they didn't find things that you. normally find um at least at this point. as a permanent settlement like um trash. like big buried mounds of trash or um. any indication that there were homes. there or like a a hearth where you know. someone might have burned a fire. repeatedly over and over in the same. home like place um so they're not. finding that stuff they're finding other. things that kind of contradict that uh. you mentioned those um humanlike.

carvings uh there were other ones that. had uh like pretty clear symbolism of. death like a a fully carved uh human. sculpture where they intentionally cut. off the head uh so it wasn't just like. you know Hey look it's a person without. a head they would they would carve it. into a person cut off the head and then. place that head somewhere else uh that. was significant to them um clearly. symbolization. symbolization symbolizing something yeah.

sure uh yeah so you put all that stuff. together and what you have is this. hypothesis that um CLA Schmidt came up. with remember he's the guy who. essentially discovered this place um and. kept going until 2014 his hypothesis was. this because there's no evidence of. permanent um habitation right like you. were saying because all the stuff is. Wild game and wild plants that's left. over over um and because these.

structures don't appear to ever have. been roofed like these enclosures were. always open air you put all that. together this was not a permanent. settlement it was a a settlement that. was created for religious purposes or. spiritual purposes or something like. that symbolic purposes by Hunter gather. groups and uh every year a couple years. or whenever a bunch of them from all. around the area would come together and. they would party they would eat they.

would drink a bunch of beer and they. would carve out these pillars and raise. them and then weirdly Schmid also added. they would fill these enclosures in with. rubble. ceremonially because when they. discovered them all the enclosures were. well filled in with rubble so he. interpreted that to mean that that was. part of this ceremony um they would. cover one up and then they build another. one on top he said it was. Coachella do they fill things in with. rubble Cella no of course not the Indio.

Polo Grounds are very nice actually but. um he did sort of say like hey this is. the kind of thing that we think they. just met here MH occasionally over. decades maybe even hundreds of years uh. maybe these rituals sort of evolved over. time um to maybe you know because. there's clear sort of death symbolism in. places uh to honor people that were. important to the community maybe help. establish their identity somewhat as um. wandering tribes. and uh that's what he thought you know.

one of the keys to this whole thing yeah. was that um to do something like this. they would have had to had you know even. if they were hunters and gatherers they. had to have had a lot of people there. that stayed there for a long enough time. to get this done yes and that over time. over those decades or centuries it just. attracted more and more and more people. to the area and so rather than the. Monumental structures and religion.

arising from farming CL Schmidt said. coming together to create this religious. structure actually essentially trapped. people in the area where they became. Farmers we had it totally backwards that. was Schmid's hypothesis yeah was it like. a a an geological geological chicken or. the egg or I guess archaeological. chicken or the egg yes but the chicken. came first that's right that's right you. know that's the answer to that question.

oh yeah we've covered it. okay we're not going to again though. I'll tell you that no heck no why why. retread. something so uh you want to take another. break or is it too soon well it's let's. take a break right after this because. there was one other thing that we should. uh point out is uh some of the other. things sort of supporting this um idea. of Schmidt was they didn't see a water. source anywhere. which wouldn't be a good place for.

people to permanently be and um what. else I already mentioned the garbage. dumps uh and the lack of houses so I. guess the the only thing I didn't. mention was the Water Source right the. thing is um CL Schmidt was I think he. formed this hypothesis you know within a. couple of years of starting excavation. and it held up at least until his death. but after his death some new um some new. evidence came to light that caused. people to go back and relook at some of. the original evidence too or some of the.

original artifacts and data and they. were like we're not quite sure CLA. Schmidt had it right and we'll talk. about what they came up with the new. hypothesis right after this. [Music]. [Music].

uh one person we need to shout out. besides Livia is a journalist named. Andrew Curry by the way he uh he's he's. kind of the guy that has invested um. he's kind of like the Schmidt on the. journalism side for decades and decades. this guy's been writing about uh most of. the popular stories about the uh G uh g. g. gaven.

the disconnected tee. big shout out big shout out there. uh but before we broke you mentioned new. ideas coming along post Schmid uh in. 2017 his successor uh Won Lee CLA of the. German archaeological Institute or the. Dai don't ask uh they built a just the. German uh shorthand for that uh they. constructed a big canopy over the whole. thing so they could dig more uh cuz I.

don't think we mentioned for many many. years they were digging uh in the spring. and fall because Summer was too hot when. was too wet yeah just four months a year. right yeah so they could dig uh dig more. with his big canopy over it uh shielding. from the Sun and rain and in order to. build I mean this kind of one of those. dumb luck kind of things that they. probably would have gotten to eventually. but uh it expedited the situation when. they realized to make this big canopy. not just like a popup with sandbags they. need to like root this thing into the. ground yeah so they dug down deeper than.

they ever had before to make supports. and had some interesting finds down. there yeah um and not just not deeper. than anyone in the world ever had before. um just in this area. right oh yeah did you think I meant they. take the Deep dug the deepest hole ever. yeah they just kept going they're like. well we're already this far we might as. well set a record wow uh they uh so they. found they were able to take examples. from those pillar holes um I think they.

they went down even below the the lowest. layer they could possibly find so when. they they took those samples they were. like oh here's all the stuff that CLA. Schmidt based his hypothesis on because. they were missing garbage dumps Hearts. evidence of homes we found a a um a. sistern eventually like a 30 30t. diameter uh sister that held a bunch of. rainwater all the stuff you would need. to support a permanent um settlement. yeah I can't decide when I read this.

part of the story I immediately was like. oh no like I wonder if because Schmidt. died a few years earlier I wondered if. he because at first I like I'm glad that. he wasn't around to see that because it. was kind of proved him wrong but then I. thought no Schmidt seems like the kind. of guy that would have like loved. knowing that he was wrong well maybe not. loved it but Lov knowing that they were. on the right track to getting the. accurate you know picture there so so. that's funny I interpreted him. differently I imagined him showing up at.

Lee cla's tent in the middle of the. night as a ghost going Lee how could you. betray me oh maybe I think that actually. happened too I saw it on Ancient Aliens. oh okay perfect so um so here's the new. hypothesis they're like okay clouse he. was working with what he had to work. with at the time but now that we have. all this other stuff what we realize is. that part of this site might have. actually been permanently occupied by.

some people but that doesn't mean that. it wasn't also like a ritual site like. clearly it was this is not just how. people built houses back then people. weren't even supposed to build these. kind of complexes back then um one of. the things that they're like okay klous. definitely got this wrong was the idea. that part of the rituals were filling. these inclosures in with rubble and then. starting a new one on top somebody. noticed that if you look uphill um the. walls that are on the uphill side of the.

enclosure are usually damaged whereas. the walls opposite are fine which. strongly suggests Landslide damage. there's also a lot of earthquakes in. that area so they're like actually we. think that the this this stuff just kept. getting destroyed but the site was so. important that for 1300 years after an. earthquake came through they would come. and rebuild like that's how important. the site was to them yeah and and this. is where it gets super interesting to me.

um Claire and some other people um some. of her colleagues and others thought hey. maybe what this was was a um was. something created because Agriculture. and people settling down may have. already been happening and this was sort. of created as part of the backlash. against that so people were. domesticating plants and animals nearby. and they were still like no we want to. be hunter gatherers. but we want to have this place maybe.

where we where we come and meet. seasonally yeah or this is where we live. like we're like this is our this is our. habit our settlement but we're not going. to farm we're still going to you know. Hunt and Gather exactly uh and one. interpretation by a guy named Thomas. Zimmerman who is an archaeologist from. Bill Kent. University uh he sees this as a place. that was populated by. staunchly conservative male-dominated.

population and there's a lot of stuff to. support that right so first of all if. you have a group of people who are. railing against um these new sweeping. changes to society that's going in ways. they don't like it and they're they're. going against that that automatically. makes them conservative and then also if. you look around at the iconography and. imagery it is very male Centric there's. a lot of fallaces sticking up there's um. all of the the figures that are depicted. are men uh I read that wherever um a.

wild animal that's carved into one of. the pillars is gendered it's in. invariably male uh and it makes a lot of. sense and then simultaneously Thomas. Zimmerman is like I think um that this. was this was meant to be a place of it. was kind of aggro place where like you. would come and. and like put some young Hunter through. their scary first rights like it was not. a place of Peace it's a if you look at. most of the animals they're snarling.

they're dangerous uh this is not a it's. not meant to be a calm place and Thomas. zimman I hope he can unwind one day. right for for his sake and the sake of. people around him yeah he he kind of. described it as uh I don't know like the. birthplace of. MMA um and like you know kind of a lot. of stuff we're seeing in the news today. yeah the birthplace of people who watch. Ancient Aliens yeah pretty much um.

here's the thing though we still don't. know so much I believe uh there what. like over 50% of it has still not been. uh excavated oh no 90 to 95% is. unexcavated Oh I thought that was just. 90% was underground and they had been. doing stuff underground no so yeah so. it's kind of confusing and maybe you're. right but what I saw is that the whole. site is 90 to 95% unexcavated but that. the enclosures that they've been able to. find only half of them are even.

partially excavated so they know that. there's enclosures down there they just. haven't gotten to them yet yeah all. right uh I like this last Theory uh in. 2021 there was a book called The Dawn of. everything by uh an anthropologist and. an archaeologist uh David Graber and. David uh wiro uh respectively and they. said all right here's what we think is. that um maybe it was just a. non-agricultural society and maybe they.

were just a lot more diverse than we. thought they were uh we kind of had this. locked in idea um that everyone was like. this and then everyone was like this and. and they were like maybe there was just. a lot more overlap and uh and and um. sort of a spectrum of uh rituals and. behaviors and things that people did and. it's just not so clear that things were. like this until they stopped and then. they were like this yeah and now I. remember I got off track earlier when I.

was talking about the pre potery. Neolithic um group that I have seen that. this era of people and earlier human. beings um their culture essentially. likened to that of like bonobos or. chimps that that's like the level of. like introspection or material culture. or contributions that they they would. make that they were that backwards and. yeah Graber and Winger like like we've. got this all wrong and so one of the.

things the ways that gcle Tee ties into. this is um those the two Davids that's. what I call them uh they David and David. yeah they the yeah they looked at um. some current Hunter gather groups which. are obviously not perfect. analogies um but what they found is that. some groups have hierarchical structures. during some parts of the Year where. they're sedentary and then in other. parts of the Year where not times of.

Plenty where you have to like spread out. and go find food they break up into. smaller bands of hunter gatherers and. they suspect that gcle Tee was a place. where they all came together again and. um enjoyed times of Plenty like where. there were tons of gazel to hunt lots of. nuts and Grains and stuff to just for. the picking um and that they didn't have. to farm but that they were capable of. being sedentary while were also Hunter. gathers for the other part of the year.

yeah and not only capable of being. sedentary but capable of uh having a. fairly complex society as they settled. For That. season uh you know before they went out. and you know I love I love this idea. because you picture them just sort of. barely surviving and moving on until. they find better places to hunt or or a. source of water whereas this posits just. a. just sort of. a a better way of life uh that anyone.

thought they lived to to such that they. could be like hey we're going to brew. beer and we're going to party and we're. going to have fun because you know we're. all doing pretty well out here guys look. around let's like enjoy this season of. uh settle settlement I guess yeah or. plenty right yeah um and that's that's. there's a lot of feasting Seasons still. today in human culture around this time. of year around late fall like after the. Harvest say even through winter exactly.

and I don't know if it was from the two. Davids or somebody uh interpreting their. work but they were saying there's a. really good chance or at least a chance. that our holiday seasons right is a. ancient or a remnant of that ancient. seasonality where we would come together. and share in in times of Plenty and when. you know throughout the rest of the year. we'd spread out and go do our own thing.

but during those times Community is. emphasized family is emphasized coming. together is all very much emphasized. during that time of year and they wonder. if that's just a like we're just unaware. that that is a really ancient tradition. that we're taking part in still we just. kind of transmuted into our own. thing you know I really missed a great. opportunity for a deep deep cut David. and David J what I could have said David. and David looked around and they were.

like hey welcome to the Boom Town what. is that it's the only hit song by David. and David what's welcome to the Boom. Town the only hit song by David and. David okay well let's hear some of it. sing it sing it like Sammy Davis oh I. said welcome babe welcome to the Boom. Town man still don't have all those uh. all those what make such a suculent. sound welcome to the Boom Town I have.

suspect you're making this up as you go. along it was a great great one hit. wonder from back in the day by David and. David David and David that's what I've. been talking about this whole time and. now it makes sense that you never knew. what I was talking about this whole time. I did it's still a good joke just. because I got you to sing like Sammy. Davis Jr we all appreciate that it's a. great song it really is um so I'm going. to go listen to that but first there. were just a couple of more things I. wanted to say about this um the David.

and David interpretation of how people. were way way more complex than we give. them credit for in the in the past uh. one of the things they point to are. ancient burials like 26 30,000 years old. where there's like grave goods and. people in beaded headdresses like. clearly being treated differently than. other people would have been buried so. obviously are hierarchical structures um. like maybe they were Mystics or Shaman. or something like that and then there. was another interpretation of gcle teepe.

itself that I thought was worth. mentioning by archaeologist Anna Fagan. from the University of Melbourne and she. was like slow your rooll Thomas. Zimmerman I actually think that all. these all these depictions of death and. Mayhem and scary animals is actually um. symbolic of life and death and. regeneration and she makes some pretty. good points um and I like her. interpretation a little more because it. doesn't alter anything else this is.

still a um Hunter gather tribe they. could still even be railing against. farming but that doesn't mean that they. have to be like aggro and and you know. want to just kill everybody. essentially yeah I love it I do too. let's just keep talking about G keckle. teepe forever it's a good one and but. now all I can think about is getting uh. that theory officially named The Welcome. to the boom toown Theory okay I think. that's cuz it fits in every way yeah for.

sure it really does Chuck I think if the. two Davids hear this they're going to be. into that you remember that song Miss. Christina drives a. 944 no I have that's the first line no. idea what you're talking about well I. just sent it to you it's a great song. okay thanks man well since Chuck sent me. a song obviously he's just triggered. listen her name that's right this is. from Siara and it's about uh the Ford. Motor Company cuz SI works there as a. michigander um hey guys one thing I.

thought I'd mention about that is uh you. mentioned that the Ford motor company. has been around since 1903 and it's. still standing but I think one of the. coolest things about our company is that. the uh what was it the Rouge site mhm. Rouge River I think yeah the Rouge River. Site uh that you also mentioned in the. episode is still standing and today. builds. F-150s uh in its history the Rouge has. built the model B the Mercury the. Thunderbird and multiple generations of. the Mustang uh the site itself has so. much history in the Henry Ford Museum uh.

that the Henry Ford Museum offers a. Rouge factory tour that actually takes. you into one of the manufacturing. buildings of the site to see the. assembly line from a set of. mezzanines uh one last thing you didn't. mention was that he was a supporter of. prohibition and it always reminds me of. this funny quote from him if booze ever. comes back to the United States I am. through with manufacturing I wouldn't be. interested in putting automobiles into. the hands of a generation soggy with. drink uh thanks for all the knowledge.

that you share and keeping me company on. my compute and that is from SIA thanks. Cara that's awesome uh we appreciate all. the extra info uh and if you want to be. like Cara and show off your knowledge of. extra info by sharing it with us we. would love that just send it off to. stuff podcast at iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio for more podcasts my heart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple.

podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.