Faking Your Own Death: We All Do It, But Why? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck. And it's. just us because we don't know where. Jerry is. But that's okay because this. is stuff you should know. Oh, well, Jerry may have uh engaged in pseudo side. because she's so tired of working with. us. Yeah. then she didn't want to tell.

us. Yeah, that's one reason somebody. might want to get out of uh their life. or you know, not for real, but that's. what pseudocide is, is faking your own. death. Yeah. And that definitely does. sound like something Jerry would do. Yeah. Like she couldn't bring herself to. tell us, so she's like, "Well, maybe I. could just disappear." Right. So, yeah, pseudocide. I'd never known that before. But pseudocide is a different term for. faking your own death. Like pseudo like. fake inside death. That's right. So, I.

don't think side means death. I think. it's a little worse than that, but you. get the point. Yeah. And I don't. remember what brought this up. I just. had this idea to to do this one. I don't. remember what it was, but um it turns. out that there's there's like a this is. a thing. It's not just something you see. in the movies. Like a surprising amount. I don't want to say a lot, but a. surprising amount of people have tried. this. Yeah. And it's probable that even. more people have tried it than we think. because the only ones that we know about.

are the ones who got caught. Presumably. there's plenty of people out there who. tried this and were was successful. Yeah. Or tried it and failed but didn't. get caught. Okay. Sure. Yeah, that's a. good that's a good point, too. I hadn't. thought about that one. As you would. say, there are three tunches. That's right. I wouldn't say that. because I love myself. No, but you're. the trunch master. Oh, that's so like 2010. I forgot about. that.

Can you believe that was 15 years ago? Hey, tanches tranches were hot. Yeah, they were. They were all the age. So, why would anybody do this, Chuck? I. think we should start with that. Well, I. mean, one of them I I listed get out of. a personal relationship. I mean, I was. kind of joking about Jerry, but um you. know, it would be probably more like uh. I I want to leave my you know, if it's a. movie at least, although this happens. real life, I want to leave my family. They're so boring. Yeah. And go set up. another life with this new family that's.

going to solve all my problems, right? That's how it works. It seems like the. the most common is probably a financial. thing. you're either have some huge debt. you're trying to get out of or you're. trying to commit insurance fraud to get. a big payout or something or you've. embezzled from your company or something. like that. Yeah, apparently. So, Livia. helped us out with this and she found. that um there seems to have been an. increase in pseudocides uh or people. getting caught trying their hand at. pseudocide um after the 2008 financial.

crisis. Yeah, that I mean that speaking. of tranches. So another big one too is um if you are. about to be incarcerated for a very long. time and they happen to have let you out. on bail, there's a higher likelihood. that you're going to try this than say, you know, when you're gainfully employed. and you're sitting around reading the. newspaper fairly content. Uh yeah, for. sure. um very sadly. Of course, one of.

the reasons is uh the like the sleeping. with the enemy um method, which is. you're trying to escape some sort of. abusive situation in your home, whether. it's a spouse or a family member or. something like that, right? Uh or you. want to frame your wife like in the. movie Double Jeopardy with Ashley Jud. Yeah. Boy, we're Is this 2007? You know what? This really feels like an. earlier stuff You should know type. episode. So, let's do it. Let's do it. up. Tanches everywhere. Ashley Jud.

appearances. I We'll figure it out as we. go along. Okay. Yeah. Our boss is just. coming to us and saying that like. there's people that want to put. commercials on our podcast and we're. saying, "No, why would we ever do that?". Yeah. And then the other people are. saying, "What's a podcast?" Exactly. So, uh let's see what else. Um, oh, I. think this one's probably it's pretty. niche, but if you're a lottery winner. and you have a bunch of family you don't. care about that are coming out of the. woodwork, you might try this as well.

Yeah. Uh, that's true. And here's the. thing, if you have that kind of dough, uh, I mean, making yourself disappear. and faking your own death is is not. cheap. Uh, as we'll see. So, it is. definitely more common for people of. great means to try this kind of thing. Um, first of all, they may have the. money to pull it off because it can be. expensive to like really do it right. these days. Uh, or if you're the kind of. person who, you know, defrauded someone.

or a company of millions and millions of. dollars, uh, you know, that puts you in. a certain league. I' I've never had that. opportunity to do something like that, for instance. Precisely. So yeah, it's. just kind of a selection bias almost, you know. Yeah, totally. Uh men also are. more likely to try this or at the very. least are more likely to get caught. Yeah. And I could see that being the. case rather than just being Yeah. more. likely to do it. And also again, probably because of selection bias a. little bit. Um finance bros are likelier.

than others to try this or at least to. get caught too. Yeah, that makes sense. with just the risky sort of uh you know, maybe they got into that hot water. because you know, this deal that just. couldn't be resisted or whatever because. it's so much money, bro. It just didn't work out, bro. Uh here's. another interesting thing is it is more. common um for people to come to the. United States uh to like collect on an.

insurance policy like if you're from. another country and then just go back to. your home country. Yes. And you just. mentioned insurance for the second or. third. time there. People who work for. insurance companies are well aware of. all of these things that we're rattling. off and more. Oh yeah. Because as we'll. see later on there there's a lot of. stuff that you could do wrong that an. insurance investigator is going to pick. up on. We'll we'll talk more about that.

But that's a big part of this whole. thing. It's a big reason people do this. insurance fraud. And it's a big reason. people get caught. Insurance. investigators. Yeah, for sure. And as. we'll see, it's um it's way more common. for like the insurance company to hire. somebody to find you rather than the. cops to come after you because the cops. are like, "Well, you know, it's really. no skin off my back." That's right. And. the insurance company's like, "Well, they just got millions of dollars from. us, so we're going to we're going to do. your job." Exactly. Um we should. probably give a pretty big shout out at.

the outset here um to Elizabeth. Greenwood. She's an author. I think her. day job is a creative writing professor. at. Colombia. Uh but she wrote a book which. as far as I can tell is the most. exhaustive look at pseudocide anyone's. ever created. Um the her book was. released in 2016. It's playing dead, a journey through the world of death. fraud. And um I I guess she had a.

conversation with a friend about how she. could get out of her student debt. Somebody said you should fake your own. death. She said, you know, that's a. great idea for a book. And here we are, ipso facto talking about it now. Yeah. And she she actually went through part. of the process just to actually go. through it to see how hard or easy or. expensive it was uh to write about it. She didn't go through with it, but she. went as far as uh finding out where this. is. Um, you know, when you talk about. something sort of uh unusual like this,

seems like there's always like, oh, well, you need to go to this place cuz. they just got the market cornered on. that, whether it's like, you know, Swiss. bank accounts or offshore accounts, you. know, like like they have it set up so. you can do this kind of stuff. And. apparently that place for pseudoide is. the Philippines. Yeah. Who knew? For for. sure. That's another thing, too. If you. died in the Philippines, your insurance. claim is going to get investigated. pretty thoroughly. Yeah. Just because of. that. Um Yeah. So, uh Elizabeth.

Greenwood is not the first person to try. this, but just based on her experience, she found that you can pretty easily. find people who are are um more than. happy to assist you with this for a fee. and a relatively cheap fee. Um. especially considering the type of. documentation you get. I think for a. couple hundred dollars you can get an. official death certificate from the. Filipino government. Um, and that's a. big part of why the Philippines is so um. like the the center of all of this.

because the you're not getting forged. documents, you're getting false official. documents. Yeah. Because you know. somebody's got a friend on the inside. and they're taking bribes and like so. you're getting good actual. documentation. It's just all based on. falsehoods. But that's not it. that it. ju it doesn't end there. Um you like. just hold your hold your credit card for. another second because they're going to. double this offer. Yeah. I mean it's. sort of like any service. They're like, "Well, if you just want the birth. certificate, you can get that for a.

couple hundred bucks, but that's. probably not going to be enough these. days." Back in the old days, that was. probably all you needed. It used to be. way easier to get away with this kind of. thing. Yeah. Their driver's licenses. didn't even have pictures on them. Exactly. It's nuts. Uh but if you really. want to, you know, go through with like. the second tier service, uh you can get. like a kit that may have um a new. identity for you. You could have like a. new passport in there, a new birth. certificate, maybe something like that. Yeah. Or if you really want to go with. like the deluxe package, uh you can. spend, you know, tens of thousands of.

dollars uh to get somebody like almost. like concier service for someone who's. like, I can erase your tracks. I can. make it like you were never here. I can. make sure you don't get caught. I can. get people to uh we can cook up a story. and I can get witnesses to testify that. they saw this car wreck and pulled your. body out of the wreckage. And you know, we know people that work in morgs and. hospitals and if you want to pay the. money, we can really really do this. thing right. Yeah. We can get you an.

actual dead body. Yeah. You want a dead. body? I can get you dead body by 3 p.m. Right. And that's gonna probably um. that's going to sit in for you. Apparently, this really kind of drives. it home. If there's a cadaavver and. you're not just missing presumed dead, that's definitely going to help your. your pseudo side become successful. Um, like you said, there's black market. morgs that essentially if you're. unidentified or unclaimed in the. Philippines, there's a chance somebody's.

going to hang on to your body and you. might be sold to fulfill someone's. pseudocide attempt. Um, and it's not. just the Philippines either. I saw at. least one story here in Georgia. I think. Coffee County, God knows where that is. Um where the this this uh I guess a. undertaker at a funeral home had a ton. of bodies that he supposedly buried that. he was selling for this reason or for. other reasons, but also this was one of. the things you could buy a body for. And. even like a legitimate funeral home has.

an incentive to just kind of be like, "Uh yeah, it's nice to meet you, Cousin. Ed. Just give me the money and you can. take this body, right? Okay. Now I know. where we did this. We did a video about. this. Oh, yeah. Yep. I knew we had done. something, but I looked up the podcast. and we hadn't. Uh, we did something. We. did some kind of video on this cuz it. may have just been centered around the. Coffee County thing cuz as soon as you. said coffee county, I was like, "Wait, there was a there was a guy there that.

did this." Mhm. Uh, so yeah, it is 2008. It is all over again. We need to make. this episode 12 minutes long. Yeah. Oh, great. Uh here's my question, though. The idea is that you get this body and. have it cremated and you pass off those. uh human remains or cremains. But how. does that work with DNA? Like why don't. you if that's the case, why can't you. just get cremains? I think cremation. destroys DNA pretty good. So why don't. they just say like here's a bag of teeth. and ashes? Some people do. Okay. I I.

don't Yeah, I think so. So, Elizabeth. Greenwood, these Filipino guys, I guess. they're trying to upsell her, but she. said that some like they offer a not. just a corpse, but a fake funeral. They'll stage a funeral, a real funeral, but there's like the mourers there are. paid. There's photographs of, you know, people at your funeral that if the. insurance company asks for something. like that to document it, you've got it. But she's like, this is all very. unnecessary. Just like what you said,

you um you just have the crees and it's. like, well, you know, what are you gonna. do? This is supposedly the dead person. It makes way more sense. It's way. cheaper. It's way less of a hassle. And. like I was saying, some legitimate. funeral homes, like if you're if the. laws in your country say one of the. roles you play is like taking over. custody of like unidentified people, like say a homeless person who dies. um. you're responsible for giving them a.

respectful burial. If you go to one of. these places and say, "Oh, yeah, that's. my that's my cousin." Yeah. And they're. they're going to be like, "Here, give me. some money and you know, you can handle. everything from there." Yeah. And and. again, if I mean, if you're trying to. commit insurance fraud or something, that's going to ramp up investigatory. practice uh most certainly from the. insurance company, maybe the cops, depending on kind of what's going on. And obviously if you're escaping. justice, stuff like that. But if if. that's not what you're doing, if you're. just trying to get out of your life for.

some like sad reason, maybe. And. especially if you go to another country. and do this, law enforcement in America. is probably not going to do anything. No, they're going to say, "Godspeed cuz. it's not a crime specifically." Uh, and. maybe we should take a break. And that's. it sounds like a good place to leave it. Eh, I agree. All right, we'll be right. back after this with more on suicide. [Music]. Stuff you should. know. [Music].

and stuff you should know. [Music]. All right. So, before we broke, I. mentioned before that it used to be way. easier to get away with this kind of. thing. Uh, I think this probably. happened a lot more back in the day. Um, as with all crime, it's just gotten more. difficult to get away with that stuff. Uh, besides DNA, um, facial recognition.

technology and, um, video cameras on. everyone's front doorstep and the. surveillance cameras that cities have. employed all over, you know, major. cities all over the world. It's just. really hard to not get caught on one of. these eventually and someone say, "Hey, the guy going into that uh Italian. restaurant there is totally my dad. I. would recognize him anywhere." Right. Right. Um I thought those doorstep. cameras were to create a sense of.

community. Like you would find out what. a great person your UPS driver is. Isn't. that what they're for? I think so. Because they they pet your kitty. It. right. It just tangentially helps to. track people who have faked their own. death. Yeah. Or to uh in my case to post. on the internet when when squirrels. attack is what I call my show. It's a great show. Emily sent me one. yesterday. She was like, "Hey, take a. look at the doorbell cam at 1211." And. she tripped going up the stairs in a. very, very funny way. Uh and so she made.

sure I saw that. Are you going to post. it? No. No. No. No. You should post it. to Yakity Sachs. I might do that. actually. Um, one of the So, yeah, there's a lot of ways that you can get. caught these days in ways you might not. have thought of. Here's a word to the. wise. If you're going to try to stage. your death, and everybody who has. anything to do with the research of this. article says don't bother, you're going. to screw it up probably. um you had.

better researched every single aspect. you can possibly think of and started a. long time before. Um it would really. help if you had thought about this 10. years ago. Yeah. The the the best time. to start planning your pseudocide is 10. years ago. The second best time is. today. But it's not really a good time. second best. That's the old saying. Um but uh if you had started thinking.

about it 10 years ago, you could have. really actually given this identity, your new false identity legs by like. getting credit cards in its name, building a credit history. Um like it. would be way easier to step into that. life than say like you know figuring out. what tour is and then buying like a. false identity the same day. You want to. plan it better than that. Yeah. Yeah, I. feel like in movies a lot of times. that's the the giveaway is they'll. they'll be like, "Well, you don't have. any credit history and uh I really can't.

find anything about you." But if you've. got a, you know, a list of uh cable. bills and uh a credit history and stuff. that goes back, you know, 10 years, uh. it's like just having your ID isn't. enough. uh if if you have a history. already built up. I mean this guy there. was an artist in 2013 named Curtis. Wallen uh who did it as sort of. performance art like as a project and he. created an alter ego and he got a. driver's license. He got an ID.

certifying him as a member of a. indigenous Native American tribe. He got. a boat operator's license. Like that's. that's kind of a deep cut I think. Yeah, I think so too. I think, you know, that's the kind of thing where you're. like, would a fake person have a boat. operator's license for a decade? Uh, exactly. He got insurance. Like, if you. have all this stuff, then all of a. sudden you're just not as suspicious, I. think. No. Uh, he went even further, too. Like, he disguised his um his his.

look, I guess. Yeah. Uh, by I I guess. so. Yeah. for like your your ID because. it would be very easy for somebody to. scan a database of driver's licenses. looking for somebody's face. That's easy. peasy these days. But what he did was he. took a his driver's license photo and. then merged it with a couple other. people's features to create an entirely. synthetic new person. And that's what he.

used for his uh photo. I guess it was. close enough that if you showed it to. somebody, they wouldn't be like, "What. is this weird thing? You look like a. Picasso. Um but like it would still fool. facial recognition. Yeah. And well, and. of course, like you said, he's Photoshop. these days, so it could be very easily. done with AI much quicker. Sure. I'm old. school, though. Remember, this is 2010. Yeah, that's right. Uh this new. Photoshop thing is amazing, isn't it? It. is. And I don't know what the heck you.

mean by AI. Someone's going to write and. be like, "Putshop was created in 1997.". It probably was, actually. Yeah, probably somewhere in the 90s. Um, he. also the the way he started all this was. created an email address. Um, you know, seems pretty logical. Uh, he used the. private tour browser and he got in touch. with someone on Craigslist anonymously. and said, "I want to buy this computer. I want to pay cash." Cash, as you'll. see, is a big part of all this. Yes. Uh, anytime you want to do this, have a lot. of cash on hand. We're not instructing. you on how to do this. No, it's kind of.

coming out that way, though. Huh. It is. Um, and again, if you're doing something. like this, you've either you're either. bad person who's done something very. wrong or you've had something done very. wrong to you, which is very sad. So, again, we're not making light of it. But, um, he bought that computer with. cash. He sort of disguised himself when. he met up and then he used more cash to. buy a bitcoin at a computer shop, like a. brick-and-mortar store, right? Um, so. Bitcoin is obviously, you know, converting if you have holdings or.

whatever you want to convert to Bitcoin, uh, that's a or cash, it's a better way. to do it than obviously having that in. your name. But, uh, that's very hard to. do these days. Like everything can be. tracked and traced so much easier now. Yeah. Including Bitcoin. Although the. Bitcoin transactions themselves are. anonymous, the or who's buying what is. anonymous, the actual transi transaction. is public and it's publicly listed um in.

the Bitcoin blockchain. And if you if if. your real name is associated somewhere. down the line with say your Bitcoin. wallet and the feds track a bitcoin to. go to your wallet, they know that you. have just bought a bitcoin and so they. can follow you and see what you do with. that bitcoin. So, it's really really. hard even with cryptocurrency to remain. anonymous, which is another reason that. you would want to do this um years ahead. of time. You mentioned buying everything. with cash. You don't want to on the day.

before you disappear and and like. allegedly die. You don't want to clean. out your bank accounts. That's a big big. red flag. That is bush league, right? Yeah. Um 20s and hundreds will be fine. Exactly. Just put it in this garbage. sack. Yeah. Exact. Yeah. And don't look. at me. Yeah. Yeah. Um so yeah, you want. to have been sacking away cash, maybe. burying it in mason jars in your yard. Who knows? While you also have your. regular legitimate bank accounts that.

you do not touch when you leave because. dead people don't withdraw a bunch of. money from their accounts the day before. they die. It's just a bad look. So, it's. another reason to start planning this. long ahead of time if you have any any. opportunity to. Yeah. And I mean, like, you know, we've listed a bunch of ways. you can get caught. It turns out that. the way most people get caught uh when. they attempt a pseudo side is getting in. touch with someone from their previous. life. Yeah. If this is the kind of thing.

you want to do, you have to, and this is. how it plays out in the movies, too. I. feel like you got to really really. commit to this and decide like I am. never going to see my kids again or I'm. never going to call my mom on her. birthday or anything. You have to. completely disappear from that life. because especially once again I have I. hate to say it again. Uh these days it's. very easy to to track email and phone. calls and everything else and it's going. to be very easy if you put in that. birthday call to mom just one last time.

a year after you're dead. Yep. They'll. be like, "You're you're toast, man. We. caught you." Yeah. Um, there was another. one. Did you mention the pet chip? Uh, no. But yeah, that's one you. probably might not be thinking of. Yeah, you could easily overlook something like. that. Let's say you take your dog or. your cat with you, right? You took them. out on the boat and the boat capsized. So, sure, they're dead, too. Um, if. they're microchipped, you might have. forgotten that you ever had a microchip. Your pet can pretty easily be tracked.

And if they track down your pet, they're. going to track you down, too. So, good. point. Yes. I think if we're if we're. not if we're getting across that, um. this is really hard to do successfully. I feel like then, you know, we're really. achieving our goal. Yeah. Uh but again, I'm not I'm not going to feel too bad. about giving semi instruction here. because believe it or not, it's not a. crime. Um usually stuff you do to get. away with this is a crime. Mhm. Uh it. could be uh and and let's just put like.

insurance fraud aside that may be the. reason you're doing it, but the actual. doing it uh the act of doing it, you're. probably going to be breaking some laws. Even if it's just um like fake dental. records or any kind of untrue, even. writing a a fake suicide letter could be. considered forgery or fraud, I guess. Uh. and then if you take on a new identity, that's identity fraud, right? Um, even. if you're not like, it's not identity. theft that which is different. Even if. you're not stealing someone else's.

identity like Don Well, I'm not going to. spoil something from a TV show. Oh, because it's 2008. I almost blurted it. out, but I don't want to do that. But. Don Johnson from Miami Vice. Yeah, sure. Let's just say that. All I said was Don. Uh, like stealing someone's identity. like let's say like you were in the army. with or Yeah. Well, let's go ahead and. ruin the Simpsons. Uh, Principal Skinner. did that, right? Yeah. Arman Tanzarian. Yeah. Uh, you know, my favorite my. favorite line from that episode. I was.

about to say it to you. Go ahead, though. What if it's the same line? Wouldn't that be fun? It is. Do you. think it is? Uh-huh. Go ahead. With the. superintendent or whatever. Uhhuh. He. says, "I'd like to introduce our our new. principal Seymour Skinner." Principal. Seymour Skinner. Yeah. Something like. that. Yeah. Very funny. Um, that was a a. weird episode. Yeah, agreed. So, you. said that if you steal someone's. identity, like that's obviously a crime. for sure. If you make up a completely.

false. identity, if like you didn't steal it. from anybody, it's just completely made. up. You're still eventually going to. make a crime. I mean, that's that's what. I said. That's identity fraud. Okay. So, even if you even So, you said that even. if it's just totally made up, it's still. identity fraud. I did, sir. Okay, good. because yes, eventually you're going to. have to legalize it and once you do. that, you're in trouble. There's a lot. of laws you're suddenly breaking. Um the.

the thing is though is there was. something you said earlier about the. cops just kind of being like they can't. really be bothered. it depending on how. well you execute this and and where you. go. Like say you move to another. country, it's going to be tough for the. cops to to track you. Even if they. really want to, everyone who's ever seen. a movie like Beverly Hills Cop or. whatever knows that the captain is going. to be on that detective's butt to to.

clear that case and go ahead and move on. to the other ones because they have a. backlog. So, they're not going to track. you to New Zealand. They're they're just. going to have to like move on, get. another take on another case that's. maybe a little closer that doesn't. involve New Zealand. But again, if you. it has anything to do with insurance. fraud, there's probably going to be an. insurance investigator who will show up. in New Zealand uh disguised as a sheep. and then pounce the moment that you walk. past. Yeah. or uh if it's not insurance,

certainly if you have. defrauded a corporation or a bank or. something like that for like tens of. millions or maybe even hundreds of. millions of dollars, right? They'll. they'll hire some PIs to get on that. case. Pretty toot sweet, for sure. And. since this is uh 2008 2010, I got to. give the obligatory shout out to Magnum. PI. Right. That's right. Because that's when. he was most popular. Well, that's when I. loved him the most. No. Oh. Has your. love waned?

I think I just started taking him for. granted. Same old story. Yeah, I. understand. Happens to all of us in a. long relationship. You want to take another break? Uh, yeah. Let's take a break and we'll maybe. we'll dive into that what an insurance. company might do to to find you. How. about that? Oh, good idea. [Music]. Stuff you should. know. Josh and Chuck. [Music]. Stuff you should know.

[Music]. Okay. So, we're back and you said uh you. promised everybody without consulting me. first that we would start talking about. what life insurance companies will do to. find you. Yes. Uh, I guess we could. start talking a little bit about what. might like what might trigger this as. far as an insurance company saying like, "All right, we definitely need to to use.

our own resources here." Uh, aside from. cops saying that they're not going to. help out much. And uh, that is the first. trigger is if your policy has a a payout. over a million bucks, they'll be like, "All right, that that's worth our time. and money." Yeah. That's apparently they. think of basically any payout under a. million dollars as small potatoes. So, yeah. So, so Mr. Clark, it No, his was. just. $999,999.99. That's exactly right. Brush. that one aside. Forget about it. Um, BA,

yeah, basically anytime your death is. sudden, unexpected, or suspicious in any. way, they're going to they're going to. investigate, not necessarily because. they think you've committed death fraud, but because they they need to. investigate anyway to rule out something. like suicide because there might be an. exception for suicide on your policy. Yeah. Um, that's a big one. And they. also look for. inconsistencies. If there's any kind of. inconsistency on, say like a your. driver's license or some your death. certificate or something like that,

that's going to catch their attention, too. This is all just preliminary stuff. they're looking at before they really. decide to get involved in an. investigation. Even Yeah. Uh you. mentioned the Philippines as being like. the biggest red flag, but really any. claim involving a death in a foreign. country is going to get investigated. Uh just to sort of dot the uh eyes and. cross the tees. Uh maybe they might be a. little suspicious, but uh it it. definitely will get investigated. Uh and. also if you're like every everything. like just send everything to my PO box.

Um that's that's a pretty big red flag. Yeah. or even like a a friend's address. would be a red flag as well. Yeah. Um. what else? If you're super thirsty for a. in life insurance policy and they find. out that you've applied with a bunch of. different carriers all at the same time, that's going to raise red flags, especially if the payout is. substantially disproportionate to your. net worth. Say you're worth $300,000 or.

$50,000, but the payout is like $10. million. Yeah. That's just just by. virtue of that being very tanalyzing, it's going to be it's going to be a red. flag. Yeah. Uh here's a pretty good one. that I didn't think about. Um if they'll. look up their their insurance client or. whatever and they'll be like, "hm, this. is weird." Uh Josh Clark went and picked. up uh a year's worth of his heart. medication. um all at once and then right after that. went to visit one of his relatives that.

he hasn't visited in a decade. So um. this sounds a little shady to me. Yeah, I I have to take that medicine because. my heart's so big and tender. Right. I. know. You just have to It's It would. burst out of your chest otherwise. Yeah. Um and then also there's some missteps. that people who try this often make. Um. one. is staying in the same city. That's. mind-bogglingly dumb if you're trying to. fake your own death. Yeah. If I were to.

do this, I guarantee no one would find. me. No, because you wouldn't do it like. you're lazy. I could disappear into. another country quite well, I think. Oh, yeah. I mean, you're pretty famous. Oh, come on. Not that famous. You're. famous enough that somebody would would. narcate. I was thinking that, too, man. After all. the research I've been doing, that is. surely just hanging around in my browser.

history. Um, if I ever tried to fake my. death, it would be pretty obvious that I. tried it just from all the research for. this one. Yeah, for sure. Uh, you also. don't want to like um there there's lots. of e mistakes you can make like. electronic mistakes, whether it's cell. phone stuff or uh googling yourself from. a internet cafe in in uh in the. Philippines or you know, stuff like. that. Uh that could get you pinched. Yeah. Um, and then also if you're if.

your new identity is pretty close to. your old identity, right? That might be. you might want to go slightly further to. the left or the right um for your new. identity. Not even politically. I just. mean like veer. Oh, I didn't think about. that. If you adopt a complete if you're. known for being like uh whatever like a. a MAGA Republican and you adopt a new. identity as this progressive liberal. pretty smart move probably. Yeah. There's this guy named Josh Clark who is. a Republican that who I think is in the.

Georgia House. I could just take over. his life. Yeah. And still be Josh Clark, but a totally different Josh Clark. Yeah. Uh what else, Chuck? Anything? Uh. I mean those are all the things that. would trigger like an insurance. investigation pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yes. So like we said, Chuck, this is. like this happens. people do this and. when they get caught, it makes the news. So, there's pretty good documentation of. people all over the world trying this.

Um, one that comes up quite a bit is a. German student who in 1984 was 24 years. old. Her name was Petra. Pazika. Yeah. Um, and she went missing. from Brownwig. Brownwag, Germany. Nice. I'm not doing very well with this. No, that's perfect. Brown Schwag makes me. hungry for some sort of sausage. Yeah, it totally sounds sausagey. Uh yeah, so she was reported missing. right in 1984. She was 24 at the time, I.

think you said. And uh at a certain. point, police um got a guy that. confessed to her murder. So that was. like a a case closed kind of situation, even though the body wasn't found. And. the guy later said, "I I actually did. not kill her. He recant recanted his. confession." Mhm. So she was declared. dead dead about 5 years later in '89 and. lived quite a while with a sort of. hidden identity. Yeah. Uh she finally. got caught. She she had turned it turns.

out she had been living um. by working being paid under the table. She seems to have had like no credit or. any any need for anything like that. She. was just living a very modest quiet life. paying for everything with cash. So, she. got away with this for more than 25. years. Um, and she was burgled at some. point. She called the cops and uh I. guess just as routine they asked to see. her ID and she hadn't bothered to get. any other kind of ID. So, she's like,

"You caught me. I'm Petra Pazika." And. they said, "We've been looking for you. forever." And apparently they did not um. press any charges because they couldn't. find any crime that she'd actually. broken. She didn't defraud anybody. She. hadn't gotten any false documents. She. just left her life essentially. No one. knows why. That's the weird thing. Yeah. So they said Guten and they left, I. guess. Yeah. But even after her being. found out and and being and like the the. story being huge international news, she.

just wouldn't say why she did that. She. just said, "I don't want to contact my. family." Yeah. Uh, and there are other. cases too where police have like in the. in the uh interview or whatever found. out why and don't release that to the. public. Like it's it's probably some. sort of really sad tragic situation and. the I've seen police statements where. they're like, you know, we had an. interview and we understand why this. happened, but there were no crimes. committed and why it happened is nuna.

Yeah. I think this is not actually that. case. Um, I saw somewhere, if I'm not. mistaken, that her family was baffled by. why she left and why she didn't want to. see them. No, no, no. This was I wasn't. talking about this one. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And hats off to. any cop that protects somebody like. that, you know. Totally. Um, I'll. mention this one. Uh, this guy Sam. Israel III, he was a hedge fund manager. Uh, and he was, you know, this is one of. those deals where he stole $300 million.

Mhm. Was sentenced to prison, a couple. of decades in prison. So, it was one of. those back up against the wall. I'm. going to jail and I'm in debt up to my. eyeballs now. Or I guess that even. wouldn't count as debt anymore once. you're going to prison. That's just, you. know, you were found out. Sure. Uh and. in June 2008, he wrote a message uh. suicide is painless in the pollen on his. SUV, just kind of traced it out and. jumped from a bridge in New York State.

uh very conveniently landing on that. construction net below. That is so. scary. Pretty scary, but I guess you. know it it you know that's there to. catch people, I guess. Sure. Um, so he. went to that very specific bridge for. that reason and security cameras uh. caught him literally getting up in. another car in an SUV that pulled up and. it was like, you know, the sound was. off, but I'm sure they heard like, "Woohoo! We did it." And like they. honked their horn and uh they got in.

touch with his girlfriend, arrested her. as a possible accomplice. Uh he was on. the most wanted list because it was, you. know, pretty clear what had happened at. that point. and he got found out because. he called his mom who said, "Uh, you. need to turn yourself in. This is a. terrible idea and you are a terrible, terrible pseudocitist." Yeah. You did. not do and it see you know here's some. other uh advice is if you do this like. don't go out to dinner to celebrate the. next night because a few people get. caught at at dinner it seems like. Yeah,

that actually that does happen to a. surprising degree. Um, my favorite is. John Stonehouse who uh was a hu this was. a big deal in the UK in the mid70s. because he was a member of parliament. Um, and in 1974 he went missing uh off. the coast of Miami when he went for a. swim. Oh, that was one other thing. If. you are if you disappear in the water, you're automatically going to get. investigated by an insurance company. because it is just so oldest trick. Yes,

it is. Uh so he went this is before that. though um he he made it to Australia he. ran off with his secretary. Um and as he. while he was dead in parliament people. started raising allegations against him. Uh one was that he um had enemies in the. mafia. Another was that he was a spy for. Czechoslovakia. That turned out to be. true weirdly. And then finally um there. a woman came forward and and later on.

and said this guy uh came to my house. He was he said he was a census taker, a. survey taker and he started asking. really weird questions about my husband. like did he ever have a passport. So um. eventually he was found I think in. Australia and he like a month later. Yeah. He just had he had to come forward. and basically tell everybody what had. happened, right? Yeah. And the well I. guess it's not funny but um the movie or.

I'm sorry the uh I guess the novel I. don't think the movie had come out yet. Um Day of the Jackal by Frederick. Forsight had been published a few years. before and it and it appears that he. literally kind of followed the steps of. how to obtain a false identity from that. book kind of note by note. Yeah, that's. why he was asking about the passport. Uh. he took a constituent's name who had. never had a passport and then got a. passport in his name. So yeah. Yeah. Uh, I'll pick one more for me. Uh, in 2009, there was a, um, guy in his mid-30s from.

Indianapolis, a money manager, uh, manager named Marcus uh, Shrinker. Mhm. He staged a plane crash. Uh, he was. trying to get out of lawsuits and. divorce proceedings and, um, he got a. bunch of cash, uh, put it in his. motorcycle saddle bags, um, went to. Alabama, put it in a storage facility. So, he had the cash kind of worked out. Then he took his uh his very small. little singleprop airplane from his. house in Indiana and was flying above.

Alabama, radios to air traffic control. that, you know, he's going down, something's wrong. He does a DB Cooper, he parachutes out, the plane crashes in. Florida, and the next day he emails his. friend and tells him what he did. Right. Bra. Man, that was dumb. Yeah, we could. keep going on. There's a lot of these, but those are I think those are some of. the highlights, don't you? Yeah. Uh we. should probably close by talking about. another kind of um pseudocide which is a. faked online death. Uh it's it's usually.

not like an insurance fraud or anything. like that, but it's a a symptom of what. they used to call monkhousen syndrome. Uh and now they call it FD or uh. factitious disorder. Uh again, previously monkhousen syndrome where. where you will try and get. um uh you know, it's it's tied into. mental illness, but you're it's a. disorder where you're trying to get um. sympathy by uh playing sick or faking. sick or actually having sometimes real.

symptoms of something, but you're not. sick, right? And this is taking that one. step further, which is to get that sort. of attention that you're craving or or. whatever you're after through actually. faking an online death. And it's. happened in some pretty high-profile. cases. Yeah, it has. And to be clear, this is way different from somebody. trying to defraud an insurance company. or escape from an abusive spouse. This. is strictly because they want attention. They want sympathy and or they want to.

control other people and manipulate. them. It's way different. Um there's a. like you said a very high-profile one. that what happened in at the dawn of the. internet. People have been doing this. essentially since there was an internet. Yeah. Um the a woman, a teenager, a. basketball star named Casey Nicole. Yeah, I remember this. She was a uh she. was a I guess kind of like a a little. star of the chat forums and um that kind. of thing. Had a big kind of support. group online and uh she had uh leukemia.

So she posted about her, you know, her. her disease and um decline from it. And. that was started in. 1999. And in 2001, in May of 2001, there. was a notice that appeared on her blog. that said that she had passed away. And. people were just stricken by this. Yeah. Uh I do remember this happening. It was. pretty big in the news at the time. Um. cuz again, it was a dawning internet. So.

people are like, "What is the internet. being used for already?" Right. Uh so. some of her followers um had had. previously, you know, saw some sort of. hinky things going on in her stories. Uh. some of the medical stuff wasn't really. making much sense. Uh as far as like how. leukemia progresses and then um. apparently she would quote a bunch of. song lyrics that were not from her. generation. Uh which isn't the the. biggest giveaway. You know, you can. listen to music from any generation, but. it it just is shady enough combined with.

the other stuff that we're like, why is. this teenager quoting, you know, songs. from the 60s all of us, you know, all. over the place, right? I I didn't look. deeply enough into it to find out how. she was finally outed, but a 40-year-old. woman named Debbie Swenson uh admitted. that she was behind the whole thing, that um Casey Nicole had never existed. She stole the photo of a local girl. basketball stars picture or her photo. and used that as Casey. Um, and I mean. that was that like I guess the police.

department told the FBI about it and the. FBI's like we're not going to. investigate this. She didn't actually. defraud anybody or make any money off of. it. She just probably needs a little bit. of help. Yeah. Um, so that's that's bad. enough. um saying that you you're. creating a fictitious teenager who's. dying of leukemia. Pretty. bad. Telling people that you the real. you has died by suicide. There was a. article in Gizmodo that interviewed a a.

professor of psychiatry named Mark. Feldman and he puts it pretty clearly. He says because of the social stigma. involved uh and the emotional weight. associated with suicide, it's. particularly powerful and that if you. use that to manipulate people, you're at. the you're you're at the peak of. manipuliveness. And that's exactly what. a author named Susan Meecher Meechen did. in 2020, I think. Right. Yeah, I totally. remember this one. This is a very big. deal. Uh she was a self-published.

romance author. uh and she had a you. know a decent following on Facebook and. in 2020 uh in the voice of her daughter. posted that her mom had died by suicide. after being bullied in the book world. Yeah. And it was a very big deal. It was. a very shocking revelation. uh that you know this woman had been. bullied to death basically. Uh and the. writing community was all up in arms. about it and like you know like see this. is what can happen with online bullying. which what really stinks is that is.

absolutely what can happen with online. bullying right. Uh but this woman was. lying. uh her daughter continued to post. on or you know in in scare quotes her. daughter continued to post to the. account and they someone pointed out. that they recognized a little quirk in. her writing was that Meechon would say. instead of supposed to she would type. post to P O S T like I'm supposed to do. this and that little DJ from Family. Circus. Yeah. Exactly. And that little. quirk uh writing as her daughter gave it.

away. Yeah. So she she was outed um I. think she carried this on for two years. and then she suddenly showed back up in. her community her writing community um. forum and said hey I'm alive this is all. just a fake. She said there's going to. be tons of questions. Let the fun begin. I can't imagine a more arrogant way to. re announce that you didn't actually. die. So people of course were appalled. and angry and it like she she was I.

think I think she expected people to be. like, "Oh my god, thank God you're. alive. That was amazing." And it did not. go like that at all. She became reviled. and hated and I think rightfully so. That's a really horrible thing to do to. people and also on top of it to exploit. online bullying. Yeah, totally. You. know, just for your own your own ego. That's just that's terrible stuff. Yeah, agreed. Uh there's one more I want to. just really quickly point out. This has.

happened more than once. So people have. faked their death online to get out of. some um obligation. I read about a. somebody on a meeting at work kind of uh. this was so one one knitting forum. participant died um rather than say like. I'm not able to to come up with the. patterns that I said I could. That was. one. Yeah. Another one was a Percy. Jackson fanfiction site that somebody. staged their death online because they.

they couldn't deliver some fanfiction. that they said they would. Yeah, pretty. weird stuff. At least that's less. manipulative. It's just being afraid of. confrontation, I guess. That's right. Since Chuck just said that's right, I. think it's time for listener mail. Uh this is about libraries a little bit. more. Uh hey guys, as you mentioned in. the recent short stuff on alt libraries, uh I wanted to mention this. In 1901,

Andrew Carnegie funded the construction. of dozens of libraries in all five. buraus of New York City. And most of the. bu uh these buildings came with a family. apartment which housed the custodian who. kept the coal fire uh burning the. furnace. Uh as the furnaces were. replaced and the custodians retired, the. apartment sat empty. Some of the. apartments are still intact, while some. have been converted into storage, mechanical rooms, or as is the case in. the library where I work, a teen center. I thought you might be interested in. this little slice of New York City and. library history. There are about 30.

Carnegie branches left in Manhattan, the. Bronx, and Staten Island. And the city. is slowly working their way through. renovations to modernize each location. Next time you're in New York, come check. us out. Rap spanked delivered. Nice. I'm. yours. Uh that is Maline Loveg Grove uh. children's librarian at the 125th Street. New York Public Library. That's awesome. Thanks a lot, Meline. That's I had never. heard of that and I would really love to. see some of those abandoned apartments.

that were just left as is. She sent a. link and it had pictures, my friend. Oh, I can't wait to see that. Thank you for. telling me that, Chuck. And thank you. again to Meline. If you want to be like. Meline and send us an email the exact. proper way, you can do that. Send it off. to stuffodcast.com. [Music]. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.

[Music].