Eco-Disasters 101: The Salton Sea | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, too. And this is Stuff You Should Know. It's a little bit of a jazzy Earth. Science edition, I think. >> Yeah. And I mean, we might as well get. into it cuz I just told Jerry the name. of this was Saltton Lake. Mhm.

>> And even though it's called the Sultan. Sea, >> right? >> Uh which is a it's an inland lake in. Imperial in the Coachella valleys in. Riverside and Imperial County in. California, Southern California. But and. I said it's not really a sea and you. said it's an endless sea. Then you said. save it. >> I said this is gold. I didn't say save. it like that. >> Well, no. I mean, I'm not going to do my. Josh impression. You just did a really mean Josh. impression. Save it.

>> Uh, no, no, no. Uh, so I guess we need. to determine this. Why do they call it a. sea? >> I mean, it's an inland sea. I don't. know. I just know that most people call. it that. I failed to go look up whether. it is a sea or a lake. >> I mean, I don't think it has any outlet. to the ocean anymore, right? >> No, not anymore. We're going to talk. about that. >> Well, that makes it a lake. >> Save it. I think that's See, I nailed. it. I think that's the difference. between a sea and a lake. I think a lake. has no outlet to the to the ocean, and a.

sea does. >> Oh, good point. >> If I'm not mistaken, I might be wrong. about that. I didn't look it up, but. >> I think California has a lot of work to. do. They need to go rewrite all their. pamphlets and update their websites and. all that stuff. It's now the Sultan. Lake. >> Well, now all their pamphlets just say, "Don't even bother coming here.". >> Right. >> To the Sultan Sea. That is, not. California. I love California. Exactly. Uh and the reason that they would have. pamphlets that say don't come here is. because the salt and sea is a genuine.

ecological disaster. >> Yeah. >> Human made it every step of the way. And. uh it's got a really interesting history. too. Um it's just a good all-around. topic if you ask me. Plus it was a SOS. so movie starring Val Kilmer back in the. either late 90s or early 2000s. >> I think it was early 2000s. It was okay. I saw it. the the extra supporting character was. meth. >> Yeah, it was very methy. Uh yeah, I I've.

been here by the way. >> I was wondering that. >> Yeah, on on my big out west trip many. years ago after college where I spent. several months driving around with my. best friend Brett. >> Mhm. >> Uh we went through the salt and sea and. um it wasn't great back then. Imagine. it's it's well it sounds like it's even. worse now, but uh when did we talk about. this before? Was it dessertification? >> Oh, maybe. >> because I know we've talked about it. >> It that doesn't ring a bell, >> but I mean so much so that I was. convinced we did a whole episode, but it.

it could have been one of our. illconceived videos that we used to do. >> That's possible, too, because I think. >> I could see us taking the angle that. there were ghost towns there. >> Oh, okay. You know, >> ghost towns. >> There are there's a lot of ghost towns. there. As we'll see, the area was once. quite developed and uh for good reasons. Again, as we'll see, people largely. abandoned this area, but let's let's. talk about how the Sultan Sea even came. to be because that is a interesting. story in and of itself.

>> Yeah, it totally is. Uh it's in the. Sultan basin, and that's s a l t o n by. the way, >> right? And that is a a very large uh. trough uh just sort of a natural. geological trough that that led into at. one point the Gulf of California, but it. was it was there were other seas before. this sea or lakes if you want to go that. route. >> Yeah. From the oldest I saw is that we. have geological evidence of inland seas. or lakes depending on your definition um.

going back at least 40,000 years and. that it was almost cyclical. There'd be. a a lake that was there for a few. hundred years and it would dry up or. flow out to the Gulf of California and. then it would happen again a couple. centuries later. And the thing that made. it happen was the Colorado River which. flows to the east along the border of. California and Nevada and California and. Arizona down into uh I guess the Gulf of. California, right? >> You asking me? >> I think so. So that would make the.

Colorado River a sea, but it flows into there and every once. in a while there's a lot of snow melt. There's a lot of rain and the Colorado. River will flood its banks so much that. it a bunch of it gets diverted into the. Sultan basin forming one of the Sultan. seas over time. >> Yeah. For a while, like you said, you. know, it it could be there for a while. Eventually, it's out in the middle of. the desert, so eventually it's going to. evaporate, >> right? But as the river flowed in there, it carried a lot of silt with it. Uh,

and eventually that silt gummed up the. outlet so it couldn't get anywhere. So. there was a natural dam that was formed. >> Right. >> And you know, it was like you said, it. was uh it was a lake for a long time. Sometimes it was a saltwater lake. Sometimes the heat would dry it out and. evaporate it and it would just become a. dry bed once again. Uh and it just it. was this kind of weird uh geological. cycle. I don't I mean I'm sure this has. happened elsewhere, but this seems.

particularly noteworthy for this area. >> It does. It seems kind of unique, you. know. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Uh it uh there's also one of these lakes. or seas. You'll like this one because. they call it a lake. >> Lake Lake Cahuila, which formed about 1300 years ago as as. well as geologists can tell. And it. stuck around for hundreds of years, possibly up into the 1500s. And at one. point in the 1500s, it flooded. So it. was already there, and it grew to about. 26 times the size of the Sultan Sea.

>> Oh wow. >> Which in and of itself, that sounds. pretty impressive. But I came up with a. few comparisons for some of our. listeners around the world, if I may. >> Sure. >> For our northern listeners, that is. larger than the size of Lake Erie. >> Okay. For our Canadian listeners, it's. four times larger than the capital city. of Ottawa. Uh for our European listeners, that's. larger than Belgium. >> Okay. >> In the UK, that's bigger than Wales. >> Mhm. >> In Australia, that's two times the.

greater Sydney metro area. And for our. friends in California, that's 26 times. the size of the Sultan Sea. >> Wow. You did your homework. >> I did. Is there a program that you use. like just like joshcon converts.com. >> there? There are uh yeah, I make like $12 a. month on web ads. >> That's great. >> Uh no, there's there's websites that. says like they're called like the size. of or something like that. So usually. just type in what's the size of 10,000.

square miles, which is what that would. be. >> Is a landing page just a banana? >> Yes. >> It starts from there. >> Yeah. Where did that come from? I'm. using a banana for scale. Do you know? >> Oh, I don't know. I never I mean, who. starts any of these things? >> Okay. I didn't know if it was something. that you had kind of brought up or. something because I know this stuff you. should know. Army is crazy for that. >> No, it's just an internet thing, you. know. >> Okay. >> Ron Ron's doing all of that stuff. >> Yeah, good old Ron. He comes up with the.

best memes. >> Uh, all right. So, that was the the. cycle for thousands of years depositing. that silt. Uh, one of the byproducts of. that is it made that soil very, uh, rich. and and stuff could really grow on it, uh, if it rained ever, uh, which it. doesn't. So, that was a problem and. irrigation's going to solve that. problem. So, in the early 1900s, uh, the. Imperial Canal was built to say, "Hey, let's divert some of that Colorado River. toward us, uh, so we can have drinking.

water and so we can irrigate this rich. rich, um, soil that lies beneath our. feet." Mhm. >> And they completed it and you know it. was uh pretty good. But that same silt. is going to keep clogging up even you. know kind of any moving body of water. and that eventually happened to the. canal like in a bad way not too long. after they opened it. >> No, just in a couple of years. Um and. this one clog was so bad that they were. like we're not going to get rid of this. anytime soon. So they dug a bypass.

around it, you know. >> Yeah. >> Which makes sense. It's smart. and they. just expected it to last like a couple. of months until they cleaned that that. silt deposit out and could go back to. the original canal. The problem was. because they thought it was going to be. temporary, they didn't install the. proper headgates. Headgates control the. flow of water in a canal. >> So that means that the water in that. bypass was literally out of control, which was fine. They dug it well enough. that um under normal circumstances the.

water was flowing normally. But the year. after they dug that bypass they they it. stayed around longer than expected and. the year after there were some genuinely. abnormal circumstances that caused a. huge problem for everybody. >> Yeah, it rained a lot. Uh a big rainy. season and then you know snow melt in. the Rockies can always be a problem if. it was extra and that year it was extra. coinciding with those rains. the. Colorado River uh swoll up again and it,

you know, did what water does. It it. goes down river in a in a pretty. impactful way and really overwhelmed. that temporary channel that they were. using to divert around the clog canal. >> Yeah. >> Uh it carved it. It just made it bigger. and deeper and eventually it started. overflowing into that salt and sink and. just became one big body of water. >> Yeah. So essentially, the Colorado River. decided, I'll go this way instead. So it. actually changed its course from the way.

that it had been going for millennia to. this way directly into the salt and sea. And it started flowing so fast that. 90,000 cubic feet of water per second. was flowing into the salt and sea. Right. That is the size of an Olympicsiz. pool that much water flowing in every. second. >> Yeah. And for our friends in the north, >> that's an Olympic sized pool, >> right? >> Yeah. I'm not going to keep going. >> Well, what about our friends who like.

McDonald's? >> Oh, I mean, if you did a Big Mac. conversion, that's really going the. extra mile. >> It is exactly 2,295,918. Big Macs all flowing into this salt and. sea per second. >> So delicious. It does seem delicious, but imagine them all kind of flowing at. once and smacking into one another. It. probably get kind of gross. >> Yeah, pretty gross. So, I mean, that. happened for a couple of years and they. tried to redirect the river. It was a. pretty uh expensive proposition. It was.

a pretty frantic thing. The US. government got involved. Uh the Southern. Pacific Railroad got involved. They. fully sealed it in 1907, but that's like. what, three years later. And you know, by that point, it was too late. They're. like, "All right, now we got a 400. square mile inland sea or lake depending. on who's podcasting many years from now, >> right?" Yeah. The way that they sealed. it, the Union Pacific Railroad because. their lines were threatened, they're. like, "We better do something because. these government yokals have no idea.

what to do." And so apparently it took. two they built a trestle across the. river to install a dam made of 257. carloads of rock, 221 carloads of. gravel, and 203 carloads of clay all. dumped into one spot to finally fill. that breach. That's what it took. That's. how big of a breach it was. >> How many Big Macs? >> A lot. >> I didn't do that one. >> Sorry. >> It's okay. Uh, is should we take a break now or is.

that a should we? It seems like a good. time for a break. >> Yeah, the salt and sea is now there. The. breach has been sealed and people are. saying, "What the heck are we going to. do with this?". >> Yeah, we're going to water ski. eventually. So, uh, we'll come back and. talk about that right after this. learning stuff from Joshua and Charles. Stuff you should know. Lately, I've been learning some stuff. about insomnia.

or aluminia. How about the one on borderline. disorder? Better yet, reporter. Heard. that one before, but it was so nice. I. learned it twice. Everybody listen up. Oh, it's Charles and Joshua. It's. stop.

>> All right. So when we last left you, uh, human experimentation and sort of error. and rain and snow melt caused a 400. square mile, uh, almost 35 mile long and. 15 mile wide, about 30 foot deep on. average lake to form in the middle of. the California desert. Yeah. Um it. because it's where it was eventually if. humankind had not intruded once again it. probably would have eventually just. completely evaporate like it had been.

doing for millennia. >> Mhm. >> Uh but like we mentioned that soil is. good stuff. So they started to to build. you know farmland out there and and. irrigate that land. And what do you what. do you do when you irrigate stuff? You. got to have runoff. And so they're. running this irrigation uh water off. into the lake, which basically it's. like, hey, we're we're putting at least. as much water as you're evaporating. So. you're not going anywhere. >> No. Yeah, that's right. So it stabilized. the lake indefinitely, just the.

agricultural runoff. Um, one of the. other things that the other impacts that. this had because they started doing that. in the 20s is that agricultural runoff. is chalk full of salt, which I didn't. realize, but this irrigation produces a. lot of salt and that stuff was flowing. right into the salt and it turned it. salty. Um, and today I saw anywhere. between onethird or 50% more salty than. the Pacific Ocean, the Sultan Sea has. become because of all that introduction.

So, it started freshwater and then. because of agricultural runoff, it. turned into a saltwater inland sea/lake. >> That's right. Uh and because it's. located along the Pacific Flyway, which. is a great migratory uh bird route, uh. the birds were like, "Hey, this is. great. Now there's water here." Uh the. locals were like, "We should put some. fish in here." So, they stocked it with. tilapia, a lot of tilapia, >> and sport fish for sport fishing. And of. course, that the birds love that even.

more. So all of a sudden by the 1930s uh. you have a a sort of a brand new. wildlife refuge forming uh such that the. US Fish and Wildlife Service even. created the Salt and Sea Wildlife Refuge. to protect all the the stuff that was. there now. >> Yeah. So when the Sultan Sea first. formed everybody's like this is actually. kind of great. This is a mistake that. turned really wonderful for everybody. We we we turned river water into. lemonade in other words. >> That's right. So, there are some other. weird things that didn't make it, but.

that were introduced um flamingos, which. I guess aren't that weird. But, uh a guy. introduced sea lions, too, um at one. point, and they were accused of stealing. pigs in the area, >> but the guy who introduced sea lions and. flamingos, he had a legendary restaurant. out on um an island in the middle of the. Sultan Sea called Mullet Island, which. is actually just sitting at top a. dormant volcano. It's very important to. remember this for later. It's a dormant.

but not extinct volcano. It's just kind. of sitting there chilling, waiting to go. up. >> That's right. Uh and you know, once you. have uh flamingos, you're going to have. people because people want to go see. those flamingos. So, by the 1950s, uh. developers had come along and turned it. into what they called the California. Riviera or the Sultan Riviera or Palm. Springs by the Sea. And it's exactly. what you think. It's tiki bars. It's. restaurants. had a very Palm Springsy. vibe. >> Uh like you know Elvis performed there,

Frank Sinatra performed there. Uh they. had you know I wasn't kidding about the. water skiing. Um they people yachted, people swam. It was just a big. recreation area uh out there in the. middle of a desert in, you know, Southern California. They they were. like, "Yeah, we we'll take another one. of these. We got plenty of people. around.". >> Right. >> And Palm Springs gets a little crowded. So now we have this this beautiful. inland sea lake. >> Yeah. People started building vacation. homes there. Uh there were very famous. speedboat races that were held there. every year. Uh at one point some.

developers sunk $2 million in 1960. money. Yeah. >> Into uh building the Northshore Beach. and Yacht Club which became basically. the crown jewel of the Sultan Sea area. >> Um there were postcards that said. greetings from the Sultan Sea. There was. a Bombay Beach resident whose. >> Wait, they had postcards? >> They had postcards. Swear to God. >> Did they sell shot glasses? >> I Yes, there was. There was a Spencer's. Gifts on on the Sultan Sea in the 60s. >> All right. >> Um, you could also get a and.

Grateful Dead poster and a Latoya. Jackson and lingerie poster. >> Right. Is she in a Is she in a Lambo? >> Uh, right. No, that's Garfield. >> Okay. >> Um, so there was this Bombay Beach. resident, uh, which is one of the little. party towns on the Sultan Sea who and. it's still there. There's something like. 350 people that live there. But he said. back in the day it was like a spring. break party all the time. Uh the problem. was the salt and sea. As much fun as. people were having on it, it was this.

ticking environmental time bomb just. growing underneath their water skis. essentially day by day until finally in. around the 70s it became clear that the. salt and seas glitz was starting to wear. off and there was rotten Big Macs. underneath. Do you know I thought you. were going to lead in with when you said. the problem is I thought you were going. to say is that spring break is not meant. to last forever. >> Oh, that's a great one. >> Yeah, >> let's go back and edit that in. >> Just just a note.

>> Okay. Well, we there'll be no context. You'll just add it in and then we'll. leave the part where you suggested in. too. >> I agree. Uh yeah. So, yeah, things will. go downhill pretty quickly. Uh, you. know, I hope we've hammered home enough. that this thing just sort of appeared. because of people and it's out in the. middle of a desert and it's not it. wasn't supposed to be there really. So, obviously it's not going to rain. Um, so. that's not going to fill that thing back. up. They had that agricultural runoff. for many years, but as we'll see, that. would end up being a big part of the. problem. >> Yeah. >> Um, developments would flood, uh, you.

know, because they were building, you. know, lakeside properties and stuff like. that. So, uh, you know, it whenever you. try to intrude, I feel like, and build a. big natural thing out where there. probably wasn't supposed to be one, I. feel like it usually goes south like. this in some way. >> Yeah, it's hubris. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah, that the runoff would. sometimes flood the lake. There would be. so much of it and those developments. would flood like you were saying. The. other problem with the runoff is that it. not just salt, it brings lots of.

pesticides and fertilizers with it. And. remember that there was no outlet for. this lake which made it a lake in the. first place. So all of this toxic water. didn't have anywhere to go, right? It. just stayed in the lake. >> Yeah. >> And anytime you have a lot of um. fertilizers introduced into a body of. water, especially a warm one, you get. algae blooms. You also get bacteria. blooms. And when the algae decays, >> the microbes that eat it also suck up a.

lot of the oxygen in the water. and that. kills off all the stuff that needs that. oxygen. So, it creates dead zones. And. then even worse, that bacteria that. blooms, um, some kinds of it actually. produce toxins that can do things like. damage humans livers or their DNA or. cause respiratory failure. So, all this. stuff is starting to like happen in the. salt and sea starting in the 70s and. 80s. Um, and it's it's just becoming. clear that there's problems that are.

starting to brew, like literally brewing. within the salt and sea. >> Yeah, it's a it's called utrification. And there are some pretty staggering and. very sad statistics that we're going to. kind of run through here as far as the. die off because uh, you know, the fish. die off and then eventually because of. the fish die off, the bird die off was. really massive. Um, this one is is. fairly staggering. Just over a. five-month period from December 91 to. April 92, 150,000. uh little small water birds are called.

what are those? Eared Grebs. >> Yeah. >> Is that what is that how we're. pronouncing that? >> I was going to say Grebies, but I think. you nailed it. >> I'm not really sure, but they're little. small water birds and 150,000 of them. died over five months on the Sultan Sea. another 20,000. uh in ' 94. Um 10,000 white and brown pelicans uh. died out in 1996. Uh about 10,000 other. fish eating birds. And this is the. really sad one even though it was I say.

only a thousand, that's a lot. But they. were endangered brown pelicans and. apparently that was the largest sort of. single die off of an endangered species. to ever happen. >> Yeah. Yeah. And all this is going down. on the salt and sea. >> or the tilapia man. How about that stat? >> Yeah. The most eyepopping stat that I've. found is that 8 million 8 million. tilapia died in one single day in August. of 1999.

>> How do they figure that? You know, >> I don't know. They must have counted one. in like a square foot and then. multiplied it by a Big Mac or something. >> Yeah. But well, in this case, fish tacos. maybe. >> Gross. That was probably insensitive. >> What? Fish tacos? Oh, I mean tilapia is. good for I don't eat tilapia much, but. it's pretty good for a fish taco. >> Aren't they the rats of the sea? >> Yeah, I think so. That I used to eat it. more. >> I'll eat tilapia. I'm not that fancy.

>> Oh. Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, I'll eat tilapia right in front of. you. >> Uh, well, I I'll be dining on my Chilean. sea bass. >> Nice. >> Or what was that called? It was a. something toothfish, right? Didn't they. re. >> Patagonian fish? I forgot. >> Yeah, Patagonian. >> That's the real name for sea bass. >> That's right, suckers. >> So, yes. Again, I think it's worth. restating. 8 million tilapia died in a. single day in 1999. The previous record. before that had been set the summer. prior, and that was 500,000 that died on.

a single day. So, clearly things are. getting worse by the year uh at the. Sultan Sea by the time the '9s roll. around. >> Yeah. And so I mean they were running. incinerators around the clock uh around. town because you know the the smell of. fish carcass was everywhere and you had. all these very sadly all these animal. bodies all over the place. >> I guess you could call them carcasses. but I'm going to say bodies. >> So there's another there's an. explanation for this too and it's.

actually pretty simple. In addition to. those um the utrofication dead zones. that are produced by those algae blooms, just simple summertime heat in a really. saline body of water can kill fish on. mass. And that's exactly what was going. on as the salt and sea warmed as summer. started to kind of get going and there's. like 105 degree August temperatures. Um, hot water, warm water carries less.

oxygen than cooler water and salt water. carries less oxygen than fresh water. So, when you have warm, briny water, fish can suffocate and that's what was. happening. And so, fish die offs are. just an annual part of life um around. the salt and sea. >> Yeah. And I mean, not only that, it's. just losing surface area. It's. shrinking. So, 10%. uh has been lost in recent years. They're projecting 40% by 2030. And when. that's happening in a really salty area,

uh, and all those pesticides and metals. and everything that have been, you know, deposited over the years due to the. agriculture all around, uh, it just. makes it more concentrated and it's. just, >> you know, it's a bad scene. It's getting. just saltier over the years. It's. getting more, you know, chalk full of. more densely packed pesticides and. things. And they're saying that the. salinity is probably going to increase. another maybe three times in the next 10. years. Basically kind of taking care of. anything else that might still be living. there, >> right? Um and just from the fact that.

it's shrinking too. Um I saw that. there's houses that were built along the. shoreline back in the heyday that are. now like a football field away from the. the shoreline now. That's how much it. shrunk. and they expect it's going to. shrink another 40% by 2030. So things. are getting dire here, right? And you. can kind of imagine that as things. started to to go downhill, tourism. dropped off. That happened exactly as. you'd think. That Northshore Beach and.

Yacht Club that was the crown jewel, it. closed down in 1984. uh because there was a flood from. agricultural runoff. And then I saw a. really cool, eerie picture, Chuck. There's a drive-in movie theater again. from back in the day. It's in Bombay. Beach. And for some reason, the cars are. all parked. Like they're there to see. the movie, but they're all junked and. abandoned. Mostly missing wheels. And. they're just they they just got put.

there like that. And it looks like. everybody just kind of left the salt and. sea midmov. It's really cool to see. I I. would strongly suggest looking up that. picture. I don't remember where I saw. it. Uh, well, I I'll do you even better. There's a video on YouTube because. that's a very I mean, people aren't. tourism wise, they're not flocking. there, but people like me and people. that are the same kind of people go to. like abandoned uh um roller coaster. parks, amusement parks,

>> um will still go to the Saltton Sea to. kind of check things out, >> right? And one of these videos, uh, it's. from, uh, the Gnarly Speed Shop, and I. think if you just look up abandoned cars. at Drive-In on YouTube, gnarly Speed. Shop, >> um, they do a cool video sort of. walkthrough of the drive-in and the. surrounding area. >> Um, there's this very, like every. picture you see of this, there's a a. very kind of striking old orange. Maverick. >> uh, car sitting in the front of frame. because I guess it's, you know, kind of. closest to the road, >> right? And there was graffiti on it and.

I could never tell what it said from the. pictures, but on the video I was able to. pause it and it says, "You infected me. in a way I didn't know was possible,". which is very creepy. I don't know if. that was like a message to a a longlost. love or if it was, you know, relating to. the salt and sea and what happened. there, but uh it's a pretty cool video. And um there were boats in the parking. lot, too. So I don't think like it just. looks like everyone got up in the middle. of the movie. I think people just like. went and like parked their cars in this. abandoned lot is what happened. >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. I know that they.

didn't do that. It didn't happen that. rapidly, but that's what it looks like. and I think it's so cool, you know. >> I didn't think you thought I didn't. think you thought that. >> So, um I I remembered where I saw it, Chuck. I saw it on a slideshow on all. that's interesting. >> Great. >> Okay. So, uh do you want to take a. second break and come back and talk. about how it has gotten even worse than. what we've said so far? >> Yeah, let's do it. >> Okay. Learning stuff from Joshua and. Charles.

Stuff you should know. Lately, I've been learning some stuff. about insomnia or aluminia. How about the one on borderline. disorder? Better yet, reporter. Heard. that one before, but it was so nice. I. learned it twice. Everybody listen up. Oh, it's Charles and Joshua.

It's stop. >> Okay, Chuck. So, um, the Sultan Sea has. really gone downhill. There's no denying. it. People have decamped from there. Not. just vacationers, but people who live. there, too. Just moved away because it's. gotten so gross. Um, we didn't mention. it, but one of the things that happened, I think, I don't remember what year it. was, there was a um, a sulfur dioxide. cloud that wafted basically all across.

Southern California all the way to Los. Angeles and it stunk like rotten eggs. and they traced it back to the salt and. sea. It was all of the decomposition of. all the muck, all the dead fish, all the. everything. >> It was so bad that you could smell it. all over Southern California. So this is. the the state that the salt and seasons. people are like we need to do something. about this and for years and years uh. starting in the early late 90s early. 2000s the idea was let's just restore it.

to its former glory. >> and that idea became a non-starter. essentially for the next couple decades. because that's just a bad idea. You. can't do it now. It's too late. But it. took a while for uh the California. government to figure that out. >> Yeah. There we'll talk about a bunch of. the stops and starts over the years. Uh. in 2003. um the water districts of Southern. California. um signed off there was this deal that.

they had been negotiating for years. called the quantification settlement. agreement or QSA. And basically what. they were trying to get done was say, "Hey, let's once again take some of that. Colorado River water. >> and um the stuff that they had been. using for irrigation is now being. redirected to like, you know, a lot of. that area was then built up into more. urban areas in the Coachella Valley and. like San Diego. And they're like, well, we want that water now, >> right? And in exchange, those areas.

would say, "All right, now what we're. going to do is pay the farmers there a. lot of money to upgrade their old. equipment. It was really inefficient. irrigation equipment. Uh the newer. versions won't have nearly as much um. waste water. >> Um and so they're like, let's let's do a. trade-off here. We'll pay you to upgrade. your stuff, and in return, you give us a. lot of the water that we need.". >> Right? So the the problem as far as the. salt and sea is concerned that. agricultural runoff remember was keeping.

it going. >> Yeah. >> So since there's less irrigation runoff. because these irrigation techniques have. been vastly updated um there's no not. really any agricultural runoff coming. and feeding the salt and sea any longer. And part of that um quantification. settlement agreement was we need to take. some of this water that the Imperial. Valley farmers used to use and feed it. into the salt and sea for 15 years. >> Yeah. >> They even paid the farmers to leave some. of their landfallow so they could direct.

that water to the salt and sea. Um, in. retrospect that seems like total madness. that they were essentially wasting all. of that water, >> but it actually turned out to be preient. even though they didn't quite realize. that it was a good thing for there to be. water there until we figure out what to. do. >> It's sort of like leaving the water on. in your tub with the drain slightly open. and just being like, we're just going to. leave the tub of water on for 15 years. so we can keep this body of water.

>> Yes. But your tub you got from an. abandoned house, right? >> And it had it has bath water that's 100. years old and full of pollutants and. algae and you're just running your water. into it. >> Yeah. So it's a horror movie tub. >> It's a Yes. Exactly. That's exactly what. it is. >> Yeah. So, you might be asking like, "Hey, if this thing wasn't supposed to. be there to begin with, if the whole. idea of a body of water out in the. middle of the desert like that is just. going to dry up naturally, like just let. it dry up naturally." And like, what's.

the big deal? Um, one of the big deals. is is that there's still a lot of. biodiversity there. Um, it's not like it. killed everything. It seems like that. eventually might happen, but um, it's. still a habitat. It's still a migratory. stop for birds on that that fly route, >> right? >> Uh and it's because, you know, Southern. California has been developed so much, uh a lot of the other natural habitats. for them have gone away. So the salt and. sea was, as sad as it was, was like a an. oasis for them almost,

>> right? Yeah. Um that that is sad because. if the salt and sea is the more. attractive option because that's all. that's left. >> Yeah. >> Those po poor birds are in trouble. >> Yeah. >> Uh it's not just the birds that are in. trouble. There are people that still. live around there. Uh, in fact, I was. really surprised to find this. Sultan. City, uh, which I believe is the biggest. town along the Sultan Sea. It's on the. Northwest Shore. Their population. actually increased since the 2020 census. by almost a thousand people, which. you're like, a,000 people? Who cares? Well, it they were less than 6,000 in.

population uh, at the time of the 2020. census. So, people are moving there. because the housing is so affordable. It's insane. Um, so there's people there. There's. there's in the whole region there's. something like 650,000 people. And all. of those people are at tremendous risk. right now of a a cornucopia of health. hazards that are starting to develop. because of the salt and sea evaporates. more and more and more because the.

runoff isn't sustaining it anymore and. it's so hot. that exposed seabed or lake. bed that's so chalk full of toxins that. you can barely look at it. >> is turning to dust that's getting blown. off into the surrounding areas and. causing all sorts of problems. >> Yeah. Um asthma they've already found an. uptick in asthma. Um there's a uh a. doctor named Jill Johnson, a PhD. >> who's an assistant professor of. preventative medicine at uh Southern Cal.

and she's working on a research project. called the Sultan Sea and Children's. Health Colon assessing Imperial Valley. respiratory health and environment in. the environment uh along with uh partner. uh Shore Farzan another PhD and they're. basically following elementary school. children in that area and and seeing how. their health is advancing. and right now. um pretty bad asthma rates and uh they. haven't proved causation yet, but it. seems like it's probably headed that.

way. >> Yeah. Apparently they just like this. month published an article on their. findings from this in the American. Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care. Medicine. You know that rag. >> Yeah. >> And um it basically is like this is yes, this is causing asthma at the very least. in little kids. There's all sorts of. other stuff to worry about, too, because. there's metals, pesticides, DDTs been. found in there. There's just so much. crud in there that now that it's um. drying up is turning into dust and.

getting carried as particulate matter. that you don't you don't want to breathe. that stuff in. And yet, it's just. blowing around because again, now that's. turned into desert, but it's toxic. desert. >> Yeah. Uh and that's that's just like. health issues. There's also um like a. financial impact. There was a study. about 11 years ago or so um from the. Pacific Institute. They're a think tank. in Oakland that um deals with water. policy. >> and they said the financial toll could.

be as much as $70 billion over the next. 30 years, >> right? >> Like property values like you said going. south, uh public health, which we've. mentioned, uh the the continued loss of. recreational revenue and natural. habitat. So, you know, there's a big. financial burden. So, you know, obviously because of that, California. over the past like, you know, 25 years. has had various stops and starts with. funding for different projects that'll. get approved and then the money just. gets diverted or never shows up. >> Yeah. And especially before that um 2014.

study from the Pacific Institute, people. are like, uh, this $8 billion seems like. a little much to to um to restore the. salt and sea. One of the reasons why is. because the area that the salt and sea. is in, the people who live around it are. fairly um low income. It's a very rural. area and a lot of the people who are. affected live in Mexico. So back in. Sacramento, the capital of California, which is pretty far away from the salt.

and sea, >> yeah, >> the political will just hasn't been. there. And one of the things you could. do if you were a senator, a. congressperson, a governor, you could. fully go after a bunch of funds to save. the salt and sea and remediate the area. and and get it back to its former glory. And then your legislature would say, "No, we're not funding that." And you'd. be like, "Oh man, I tried." And that. seems like what the pattern was for the. first like about 20-ish years, maybe a.

little more than that, that people. started coming up with ideas to to do. something about this. >> Yeah. Gray Davis when he was governor in. 2003, uh, signed the Salt and Sea rec. I'm sorry, restoration act uh, and the. Salt and Sea Restoration Fund, but that. didn't receive funding. So a fund. without funding is not a fund. >> No. >> Um, just like a sea without an outlet is. a lake. >> Right. Yes, absolutely. >> All right. Uh, in 2007, the core of. engineers, uh, the Army Corps of.

Engineers got authorization to spend up. to 30 million on projects. Uh, the money. was finally appropriated in 2015. and, uh, the Obama administration uh, spent a couple of hundred grand is all. on a study, another study even. >> That was the 30 million. That's what it. turned out to be from what I can tell. It went from $30 million to $200,000 and. it was for another study. Isn't that. crazy? >> Yeah. I mean, none of this though is. going to make any difference. I mean, even a $30 million thing or I think um.

there was one plan uh yeah, a 10-year. Salt and Sea plan uh to cost 383. million, but that's not even for. restoration cuz like you said, that ship. has sailed. Um it it is a multi. multi-billion dollar thing if they want. to get this thing back to the California. Riviera. So, right, it doesn't seem like. that's just ever going to happen. It's. not even possible. >> No. So, now they're looking at restoring. parts of it to turn it back into. wetlands for birds. Right. >> And that 10-year plan, it was um.

estimated to cost $383 million just to. do that. >> Yeah. >> And it looked like it was just going to. be another another pie in the sky. proposal that would never get funding. But California came up with something. like $200 million of that. there under. um Gavin Newsome. Uh in the last couple. years, there's been huge crazy movements. compared to what had been done the last. couple of decades. And California came. up with $200 million. out of nowhere. Mbogglingly, the federal.

government chipped in another $240. million, $245. So now this project that needed. 383 million has almost half a billion. So, not only are they now on the salt. and sea saying like, you know, when are. we ever going to be able to do anything. about this to we can actually do more. than we wanted to do in our 10-year. plan. The things are starting to pick up. and they're starting to restore wetlands. and um it it actually looks like it's.

going to not be quite the ecological. disaster that it would have been had. California just sat on its hands. Yeah, I think uh between 2003 and 2016 um just. a few dozen acres of the wetland were. restored. Uh since then about 2,000 more. and uh the species conservation habitat. project has a plan over the next decade. to restore another 9,000 acres. So. that'd be like roughly 12,000 acres of. restoration, which is pretty good. Um,

they also think that, you know, it's. Southern California, so it's it's a a. moneyed area in general. Um, not that. exact area, but they're saying like, hey, we can like we've got this great. land there that we can make money off. still. Uh, remember that Mullet Island. that's on the dormant volcano? Um, that. means there's some hot spots there. And. so, uh, some people are saying, "Hey, let's let's put a few billion dollars. toward a geothermal electricity plant.". >> Yeah. Yeah. Um or maybe mine some.

lithium. >> Yes, I believe they're already building. the plants there. And then the lithium, I don't know if they've actually started. that, but there's a lot of lithium. there. And that is like 21st century. gold because you use that and batteries. for electric vehicles for giant. batteries to back up your power grid. And um there's a a push and pull over. whether to lithium mine there. And of. course, they're going to end up lithium. mining there because it's just so. valuable. Um, but some people are like,

"It's already an environmental. catastrophe. Who cares if lithium mining. makes it a little bit worse? It's better. than mining in a more pristine area and. really screwing that up.". >> And other people are like, "No, we're. trying to restore it. So lithium mining. is going to not only undo that stuff, it's going to make it even worse than it. was." But. >> my money is definitely on them lithium. mining. >> Yeah, agreed. >> There's a couple other things that are. noteworthy about the salt and sea. I I. guess we can leave that part that. there's actually hope for it right now.

Um but along the way, like you can. imagine such a bizarre place generated. some really interesting urban legends. over the years, right? >> Oh yeah. >> Some of them are actually true. The Navy. used to use the salt and sea to to drop. test bombs or dummy bombs to basically. train their bomber pilots how to drop. bombs. And they actually supposedly. practiced for um atomic bomb drops. And. they are so there's dummy bombs under. the salt and sea still. And of course. locals are like that's just a cover.

story. They actually lost an atomic bomb. and that's what's hiding there. There's. an undetonated atomic bomb under there. >> Now. >> there are a bunch of Navy planes that. did crash. I think 18 flyers died over. the years. But there's 24 planes sunken. in the Sultan Sea right now. And then. there's this one really weird legend. that predates the salt and sea. There's. it's the lost ship of the desert. Have. you ever heard of that? >> Never heard of it. >> Well, it's apparently this legend or.

lore that there was a anything from a. Spanish gallion to a Viking ship that. sailed up the go the Gulf of California. and eventually got stuck and that that. turned into desert and the ship was. swallowed up. And some people are saying. it was actually in the Sultan basin. which is now under underneath the Sultan. Sea. So there's this whole idea that. there's a Viking ship potentially under. there too. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> There's a great dive bar.

>> The ski in, right? >> Yeah. That's uh it's in that video. They. go to ski in and uh play creepy old. piano and have some beer. >> Yeah. They call it the lowest dive bar. in the Western Hemisphere because it's. 237 feet below sea level, I think. Yeah, right there at uh I don't know if they. still call it Bombay Beach or if they. took that name away, but Bombay Non. Beach because a beach without water is. not a beach, >> right? Uh there's also it's attracted a. lot of artists too like Slab City is.

essentially a taken over military. installation. Um there's a folk art. installation called Salvation Mountain. There's another whole like outdoor. gallery um called East Jesus I believe. is what it's called. So, there's a lot. of art that's being made there. Um, that's kind of turning it into a a. really neat, weird, decrepit art place. >> Cool. >> Yeah. Uh, you got anything else? >> Uh, I got nothing else.

>> Okay. Well, that's it for the Salt and. Sea, everybody. We'll have to keep an. eye on it and see what happens. And, uh, in the meantime, I think it's time for. listener mail. Well, speaking of art, uh before I read. listener mail, I want to give a plug to. uh dear old Ben, our our comrade here at. Stuff You Should Know, our colleague. Uh. he is a producer along with Jerry. Uh. and Ben is a musician, Ben Hackett, and. he put out a great uh piece of art. Uh. he put out a record called Songs for.

Sleeping Dogs. >> not too long ago. And Ben's awesome. Uh. Songs for Sleeping Dogs is great. It's. this very viby instrumental. I think. you'd dig it actually. >> Uh and so yeah, go check it out. >> Yeah. >> Wherever you get music basically. >> Yes. Ben is our probably our most. beloved Stuff You Should Know member cuz. he's just so cool and chill and nice. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. >> Say that in front of Jerry. >> Mhm. >> Okay. All right. Listener mail time. Uh.

we got a couple over the next couple of. episodes on MTV and VH1 because we got. great response. Uh, and it was also. another one of those weird things where. we did an episode and then something in. real life happened and we had no idea. that when we did our MTV episode that. like the next week MTV would fold. basically. >> Yeah, >> it's music channels. Uh, it was just one. of those strange stuff you should know. things that happen sometimes. >> I didn't quite understand. So, like it. was just its music channels. I didn't. know that it had any music channels.

left. >> Yeah, I think we talked about that. That. there was still some some music. happening. Well, Jerry just buzzed in. and said it's just in Europe, so I don't. know what to believe now. >> Well, they definitely did something and. it was right after our episode for sure. >> Yeah. All right. So, this is about MTV. Uh, hey guys. Hoping that you would. touch on this, especially toward the end. when Josh is talking about the social. impacts of MTV, but I'm talking about. the MTV cut. Before MTV, the average. shot in a film or television show lasted. an average of 8 seconds, and the MTV cut.

uh whittleled that down to 2 seconds. >> Wow. Uh, in college circa 2000 it was. called the MTV cut. Now the MTV cut is. the norm. You'd be hardressed to find a. show that stays on one shot for 8. seconds consistently anymore. I wonder. if people changed or if the MTV cut. changed people. and the way we watch. >> I believe I'll bet that's one of those. things where if you saw it now, you'd be. like, "Wow, this is really weird." And. not quite put your finger on why, but.

it' just be almost unsettling to see an. 8-second cut. Maybe I mean I remember people talking. about like quick cut because of music. videos. Like it was a thing. Uh that is. from Chris Singleton. >> who is uh an ops manager for. Independence Rock Media. >> Very nice. So Chris knows what they're. talking about. >> I think so. >> Well, thanks a lot Chris. That was very. interesting. And we want to hear from. you, too. If you've got anything. interesting to say, you can email me, too. >> Yeah, you can. Yes, we want to hear from. Bono and the Edge and the other guys.

>> Oh, boy. Um, what? >> Madam and Larry. Come on. >> There you go. Thank you. I could have. come up with those given a couple of. months for sure. >> Sure. >> Um, so, uh, yeah, if you want to be like. the band you two, you can email us at. stuffpodcast@ iheartradio.com. [Music]. >> Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iMheart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your.

favorite shows. [Music].