Dry Cleaning: Not Really Dry(!) | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. and we are ready to marize the heck out. of you in 1 hour or less yeah you like. heavy starch you a medium guy you want. to double crease in your pant LS I had. to look that up have you ever heard of. such a thing yeah I got a triple crease. what are you talking about no for real.

have you heard of a double crease before. a demand to know. uh I don't think so because I'm not. someone who of uses a dry cleaner you. and a lot of people these days pal. apparently the pandemic just crushed dry. cleaning because people stopped going to. the office as much which means that they. stopped needing clothes that required. dry cleaning as much but even before. that people um had started to work from. home a little more and the office had.

gone much more casual than before so dry. cleaners have been hurting for a while. yeah I I just I don't have much of a. need. um if there's a particular stain or. something that I'm really dying to get. out of a piece of clothing what is that. I'll take it into a dry cleaner uh but I. I was taught at a very young age how to. launder and iron clothing oh neat but I. also don't often have to do that because. I rarely have to wear like you know a. pressed dress shirt.

uh to a thing you don't put a double. crease in your jeans what's a double. crease so I looked it up it strikes me. as possibly kind of like a 1940s you. know that wolf from the cartoons kind of. zoot suit look okay maybe those would. have double creases the only thing I. could find there's a pair of beniton. pants for women that has a double crease. and I I'm pretty sure I could find the. second one not 100% but I guess that's. the thing that some people requested the.

dry cleaners H people who ain't quite. right I I take it yeah my my big dry. cleaning sort of memory and story is. that uh you have a dry cleaning story. well not a story but I just you know my. my uh best friend in high school rad who. the Cartographer hello rad yeah he his. dad Wayne had a closet with like 25. light blue perfectly dry clean shirts.

like 25 pink ones 25 white ones wow it. was like a Patrick baitman esque closet. yeah and I I remember just going in. there in high school and just being like. wow were there like leather gloves and a. knife stashed behind all this no Wayne. was a good guy but anyway uh that's my. dry cleaning memory from high school uh. I have a memory I have a stat here. that's uh from 2017 there were uh in the. United States there were 20,600 dry.

cleaners I've seen that as high as. 30,000 now yeah uh but one thing I. wanted to point out is that dry cleaners. uh in the United States uh. 80% uh of their employees SL owners are. ethnic minorities of the United States. and majority of which are uh. korean-americans MH and all this just to. point out as we go along we're going to. talk about the expense of dry cleaning. and and changing your whole business. because of government regulations and. the fact that these ethnic minorities.

and small business owners that can be a. tough thing yeah I mean there's. definitely like a stereotype in the. United States that that um dry cleaners. are often owned by people of Korean. descent or straight up Korean immigrants. and apparently in the 70s uh that became. a thing in the same way that um we. talked about uh Greek immigrants and. their children um running diners in the. United States that's true with Korean. immigrants and dry cleaners apparently a. Korean immigrant is 34 times likelier. than the Immigrant from anywhere else to.

open a dry cleaning store in the United. States and yeah these are very small. operations in a lot of cases they're. small businesses and yeah we'll see. there's a lot of financial pressure on. them right now that seems potentially. fairly unfair yeah absolutely and uh. we're going to sort of go through the. process of dry cleaning we've got a lot. of requests for this over the years yeah. uh my experience has been um at least. around here most of the dry cleaners are.

storefronts that will take your stuff uh. there are a lot of washers and dryers. like you can do laundry on site M uh but. the the stuff is sent out it is not. cleaned on site it goes to a separate. facility for the dry cleaning then comes. back is on those amazing racks that I. just I love those things so much oh yeah. that spin. around you know all those clothes. spinning around can't you just imagine. like a ham hanging from each one in your. kitchen I just for some reason I love it.

but uh apparently there are some where. they they actually do this stuff on site. um but the first thing we want to talk. about is the fact that dry cleaning is. not dry it just means they don't use. water that's a really important point. and I think we'll probably um restate it. multiple times throughout this episode. just to make sure we're driving at home. do we need to though yes we do whether. we need to or not I insist let's just. Hammer that simplistic fact home yeah um.

it is weird the I think it's just kind. of a Remnant or a relic of the original. interpretation of dry cleaning because. it did make sense back in the day today. it doesn't it doesn't hold up it's not. dry at all so everybody I'm sorry to. ruin your Illusions technically it was. Chuck who did that but um dry cleaning. is fairly old there was a a man uh a. black American named Thomas Jennings who. was a tailor in New York City who in. 1821 one got a patent for a process of.

essentially dry cleaning he call it dry. scouring um that you could use to remove. dirt and grease from clothing without. harming the fabric which is pretty. groundbreaking but it's lost to history. um apparently there was a fire I want to. do at least a short stuff on this Chuck. there was a fire in 1836 that destroyed. 10,000 patents basically all the patents. from 1790 to 18 36 gone in this fire and.

that included Thomas Jennings patent so. we're not at all sure exactly what the. deal was but he we know that he was the. first to come up with probably what. would be considered dry cleaning yeah. and Jennings himself could be a great. short stuff uh because he is the first. African-American to receive a patent in. the United States uh and this was 40. years prior to the Emancipation. Proclamation uh and what's so remarkable. about that is is he was born a free man.

but in the patent application you have. to be a citizen of the United States MH. and they granted him that patent thus. recognizing him as a citizen of the. United States which was a very big deal. uh at the time he also helped to. organize something called the legal. rights Association again this is the. 1820s 1830s uh and that group would. challenge people in court would file. lawsuits against um acts of. discrimination in the 1830s so that yeah.

he definitely does deserve his own. episode it sounds like too yeah we'll. follow up okay uh a couple of decades. later over um in France there was a man. named Jean Baptist. Jolly um spelled like Jolly it's a great. name all three names together with that. nice round Baptist in the middle he was. a he made die he was a dire a dire maker. um and he had a tablecloth that was um. had a oil lamp knocked over on it.

luckily it was probably not lit at the. time or else this would have been a. totally different story but the the um. flammable liquid inside probably campine. um which is uh kind of like uh it's. derived from the same stuff as that. turpentine is made from um it he found. that where it had spilled kind of like. cleaned his his tablecloth and he said. you know what I think I might be on to. something here yeah cuz that is uh.

we sort of buried the lead uh it's not. dry cleaning because there is liquid but. what the liquids are and always have. been is some kind of solvent to clean. your clothes yeah uh early solvents were. very dangerous and flammable uh some. sometimes it was kerosene sometimes it. was gasoline yeah uh I remember I think. it was uh was it the vasilla ax murder. episode where the rugs. were super flammable because they had. been cleaned with gas. I don't remember that I think that was.

it because I know at some point we. talked about the fact that gasoline was. used to clean stuff and that's why one. of these houses like went up in flamed. so quickly that might have been the. hinter kayek murders oh was that a. fire oh no I bet it was the solder. children the missing solder children. there was a fire central to that one. okay that may have been it but I knew we. talked about it at some point they use. you know like we said kerosene gasoline. uh. turpentine uh the resin of which is.

tarpine and that is why when you go. camping you look for what's called like. a lighter's knot or fat lighter uh and. that is the very resinous uh interior of. a pine tree which is super flamable and. that really helps get a fire started but. all this to say is that stuff was pretty. dangerous to use as a clothes cleaner. yeah so much so that um like dry. cleaners would explode from time to time. so that that dry cleaning facility that. the storefronts would send their their.

clothes to um would be located on the. outskirts of town because it was a very. very dangerous place um and after they. started to move away from more flammable. solvents they replaced them with um uh. synthetic compounds specifically carbon. tetrachloride and trior ethylene um. which worked is I think the the reason. that people were kind of bullish on them. is because they didn't blow up but were. a lot of other problems with them like.

just as an industry the carbon. tetrachloride corroded your Machinery. the trior ethylene was really harsh on. your clothes and both of them would give. you cancer and disrupt your neurological. system too yeah for sure um before they. tried these they tried a kind of M. mineral spirit called Stoddard solvent. which I think that may have been. flammable too yeah uh but where they. eventually landed is on something called. uh perchloroethylene or perk as as we're.

going to call it as everybody calls it. is it per. cloro yeah it sure is PC and that became. sort of the go-to um for a long long. time it still is the go-to percentage. wise and we we'll get to all that later. uh but it was much safer to to use uh it. did better job of cleaning the equipment. was. smaller uh it was It was kind of better. in every way as far as those pre. Alternatives yeah but as we'll see it.

ain't so great one other thing that um. was so um alluring about it is those dry. cleaning facilities could come back into. town now and your little storefront. could actually be the dry cleaning. facility because it required such less. floor space and this solvent was just. like a miracle like you could get. people's clothes done in an hour and um. actually it was the guy who started 1. Hour Martinizing who was a chemist who. was who was the one who went back and.

was studying perchloroethylene as a. potential solvent and brought it into. the dry cleaning industry and started. One Hour Martinizing shops and the. reason they could do it in an hour if. you paid them enough was because they. had the facilities on site yeah and his. name was Gabby. Johnson I don't think so no was it. something Martin yes okay I can't. remember his first name but his last. name was definitely Martin because. Johnson eising just sounds dirty really. does I'm going to go out and Johnson.

eyes it really. does wow yeah I'm like I'm blessing. right now so like I said we're going to. talk more about the sort of the. downsides of perk but even at the time. when they were like hey this is so much. better and safer they're like but gez uh. working in this thing all day is like. I'm like my breathing is a little weird. and my eyes are irritated and I get a. little bit dizzy and stuff like that. does anyone else see the elves yeah and. everyone's like yeah but but uh it's not.

flammable right uh it's not turpentine. or kerosene so it's it's better yeah. some of these things I think per. chloroethylene is actually related in. some way to chloroform so these early. workers especially before we had any. kind of handle on just how bad perk. actually is for you um we're handling. this this really tough stuff and we'll. definitely talk a lot more about perk uh. later on but um the uh well should we. take a break and then talk about what.

happens when you drop your clothes off. at a uh um dry cleaning place I think so. okay well everybody we're going to take. a break and then come back and talk. about what happens when you drop your. clothes off at a um a dry cleaning. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. place. [Music].

[Music]. did I say something yeah before the. break you sounded like uh John. Wilson is that the guy who started 1. hour mark in no have you seen uh John.

Wilson's TV show how to with John. Wilson I can't say that I have it's. great it had a three season run and it's. fantastic does he have a glasses and. kind of sandy blonde hair he has glasses. but he's never seen on screen so oh no. I'm not sure who that is then yeah no. sorry John Wilson the show but he also. sort of um talks like this um as a um. narrator oh okay okay yeah he sounds. like my kind of guy it's very fun it's a.

great it's one of my favorite shows so. highly recommended uh but this is not. about John Wilson this is about although. he may may do a show called how to get. your clothes clean that's the kind of. thing he does uhuh sure uh but when you. drop your stuff off at a dry cleaner and. we'll kind of whizbang through this. first part because it's it's certainly. not super interesting but they're going. to inspect your clothes uh one reason. and they're going to do that is to see. like where the lasagna stain is uh or if. it's not stained if it's just a regular.

old uh hey I'm Wayne Smith and I want to. get all my shirts perfect mhm uh they. are going to go over it so they can. cover their own butts as far as when. people come back and say hey the. button's missing they can say sorry sir. uh or ma'am your button was missing when. it came in here because we wrote it down. and showed you yeah peep the sticker. chump yeah is kind of what they're. famous for saying um if they do find. some stain that they're like oh I don't. know about this one it could be tough um.

as we'll see the the different types of. stain require different types of. treatments um they'll pre-treat it and. then the dry cleaning takes place and. this is where the magic happens I I. really feel like this is this is some. good stuff here that's right um so. here's what happens should we repeat the. fact that this it just means no water. your clothes are still getting wet yeah. say it again well I just did you want me. to say it another time sure all right no.

water that's all dry cleaning means yeah. it it gets wet your clothes gets super. duper wet soaked even but not in water. instead in an industrial synthetic. solvent perk the perk that we've talked. about yeah and they do this in huge. machines uh and you know these cleaning. machines are not that different from. just sort of your garden variety. industrial uh wet laundry machine as far. as I can tell yeah but they're um what's.

called dry to dry machines meaning that. the washer and the dryer are housed in. the same machine it's the same drum you. put the clothes in once they get washed. they get dried in the same little drum. and then you pull them out yeah it it. happens the Cycles are much faster uh. and you know there's all kinds of of. things that we'll talk about that make. it different but it if you put it in. there it's still got a drum that's going. to spin and jostle the close around uh.

20 to 100 lb depending on how big the. machine is it is a stainless steel. basket that's perforated for drainage. and stuff like that uh it's they're. they're super robust because perk is. about 70% uh 69% in fact heavier than. water is yeah so it's this stuff's heavy. it's all just super Juiced up Motors. heavy duty equipment yeah uh and I mean. they shoot a lot of perk at this stuff. um I I think on the order of like 25.

gallons an hour they really Johnson eyes. the clothes with the. per but what's cool you said that. there's a lot of differences between. these um these industrial dry cleaning. machines and like say an industrial. washer dryer and the key difference is. that that perk the solvent that you use. as the the um the cleaning agent it's. recovered to the greatest extent. possible um we've reached what are. called fifth generation machines first. generation machine was a washer and then.

over here was a dryer and when you were. dry cleaning something you moved it from. the washer to the dryer you got perk. everywhere you got it all over yourself. you got it all over the floor and you. wasted a lot of it um in some of the. older machines you would have to refill. the perk that was used and recovered in. this machine every couple of months now. it's on the order of every couple of. years that's amazing yeah because this. perk doesn't really break down very much. and it stays a viable solvent for years. and years and years if you keep it in.

this closed system yeah and it separates. from water as well right yes uh because. it's again it's 70% heavier in the water. water floats on top of it and most of. these machines feature a little mouse. that comes along with a tiny little snow. shovel who's very happy to move the. water out of the way with its snow. shovel um and uh water skis that's right. uh there are also uh things like carbon. absorbers there are Ive fans uh they. have these sensors that will lock.

everything if there is uh if like if the. perk level is too high you can't even. open it right so they got to get as much. of that perk um out of that thing before. you open the door which has made things. much much safer but uh again perk has a. some dirty secrets that we're going to. reveal later on yeah uh but this thing. is uh you know you're looking to get. clean solvent by pumping out that perk. through a filtration system and even.

though like you said they're spraying a. ton of that stuff in there yeah usually. about 25 gallons a minute um so like a I. think there'll be 200 gallons over like. a 8 Minute cycle pumped in and there's. not 200 gallons of perk in there at any. one time as new perk is coming in the. old perk that's gone through the clothes. already and is clinging to dirt is. filtered out right so this is like this. constant process of new perk old perk. new perk coming in old perk going out. through these filters and everything and.

then when the the Cycle's done and all. the perk spun out and it's been removed. from the the basket they heat the basket. to vaporize the remaining perk and then. that also gets captured because they run. that through condenser coils to turn it. back into liquid and put it back in the. filtered perk Reservoir it's a pretty. astounding machine that they the the dry. cleaners use for this stuff but it's. really it's just impressive like this. the Leaps and Bounds that they've gone. through to to to figure out how to.

maximize the uh the the lifetime of a. perk molecule and minimize the chance. that it will be lost yeah for sure um. something I've done a lot of the past. two days is watch dry cleaning videos oh. tell me you saw the one well I don't. know what was the one it's called what. is dry cleaning how does dry cleaning. work on YouTube did you see that one no. I I watched a lot of similar ones uh. I I love processes like this uh so I can.

watch things like this and stay riveted. I I thought it was genuinely in. interesting uh and one thing this. article points out is that quality. control can you know like how your. clothes come out in the end basically uh. it's not just like you know they got the. machine so that's what it does it's it's. human beings that are overseeing this. stuff and making sure that everything. comes out exactly right uh if they are. you know if they're doing it it the. right way uh and I saw a lot of videos.

where they were owners and operators. talked about how important it was to. have humans inspecting each and. everything that comes out yeah and. making sure it like passes their their. rigorous standards yeah because if you. don't keep your filters clean I'm. guessing like after every cycle. essentially that perk's not going to get. filtered as much and so you're going to. be using dirty perk solvent and that has. a really terrible effect on clothes it. can make clothes dingy right it can make. clothes dingy over time um perk.

interacts with colors so it can actually. strip the Dy from some colors and then. bring it into other colors in the next. load um if you have a good dry cleaner. they're going to clean their filters. frequently and if you keep up with that. then yeah the quality is going to be. through the roof essentially absolutely. so if hopefully your quality control is. through the roof at your local dry. cleaner they're going to take that. garment out inspect it and then say. sometimes. well you know what the the machine and.

the perk did not get all the stain out. but I think I can do this as uh with my. own two hands and so this is called post. cleaning spot removal and that is just. extra uh post cleaning uh processes that. is done by a person to make sure that. stain gets out yes because in a Dr. cleaning facility they have a whole. array of solvents that are specifically. for different types of stains yeah and. apparently you can divide two stains.

into two general camps you've got wet. type stains which are wet in nature like. uh tea wine um something like that you. have dry side stains which are typically. grease or oilbased rather than. waterbased M and depending on those you. need either a solvent for the dry type. stains or some sort of water solution. usually with enzymes like s shout or. something like that for the wet type. stains and depending on that type of. stain um they'll use a specific kind of.

solvent in the post spotting or the. pre-spotting but that's why it's really. important if you take your clothes to. the dry cleaner don't just throw the. shirt at them and be like peace I'll see. you at five right like say there's this. te- stain right here that I just find. too stubborn to even begin with I can't. even bother with it but can you please. get this te- stain out and they'll say. yes you know that's a wet side stain. you'll say I don't care just get the. stain out and then you leave and say. peace I'll see you at 5 but at least. you've told them very rudely you've told.

them about that stain and they'll treat. it accordingly yeah as far as you. yourself pre-treating a stain uh you. know if you ask your dry cleaner they're. probably going to say that could make it. worse don't bother or it doesn't do. anything don't. bother uh I mean there are various sort. of home uh recipes that you will find on. the internet if youve spilled things. like wine there's a lot out there. there's a lot of them um um so I don't. know I'm not going to give advice either.

way on that because I think sometimes. that that could help but I don't know. enough about it it also could make the. stain worse so I'm not gonna I'm gonna. say you know you're on your own I found. a short article on the internet Chuck. that was um by um the Smithsonian. preservationists about how to remove. stains I'm like okay I'm pretty sure. these people know how to remove old. stains so I would go with whatever. advice they're giving all right so in Li. of repeating it you're just going to say.

ask the Smithsonian what they think. pretty much and then there's one other. other thing I want to shout out which. appropriately is shout because if if. shout didn't exist I would have to buy. new t-shirts every week essentially i'. spill stuff on myself all the time it's. really strange um but shout works really. really well and I love it I love shout. so much and I went online and found that. there's a shout like ask shout how to. treat a particular kind of stain so. there's like some different criteria put.

in and then shout tells you what to do. what what shout product will work or. what you know whether you should try you. know heat or whatever um and I I thought. that was a very helpful site as well we. I don't think I've ever used shout oh. it's so good Emily won't allow that in. the house shout specifically too shout. I'm not talking about any competitor I'm. talking specifically about. shout what's your question I don't have. a question I just want to make sure. everybody knows how much shout helps my.

life I got you I thought you were asking. if shout specifically was what Emily. won't allow that no no uh but let's get. to that why why is Emily opposed to. shout well I mean we we've been all. through this and Emily's uh allnatural. sort of the Cs sure yeah um but. regardless that's fine I've got some. stained shirts probably as a. result bring them to my house I'll. secretly wash them with SH I know uh. some stains won't come out I mean that's. just the fact to the matter uh a dry. cleaner can do their very best uh but if.

a dry cleaner can't get out of stain. that means that that stain is just. forever there yep you just set that. shirt on fire and say no one could love. you now exactly uh to me the finishing. process is the most interesting because. when you're walking through Wayne. Smith's closet and you see all those. shirts so perfectly pressed little stiff. for me but that's how Wayne liked him I. always was like how in the world like. what is going on there to get these. things looking like that or that double.

crease sure he was one of those people. huh this is all called the finishing. process uh and it is these are the. videos that are a lot of fun to watch on. YouTube in my opinion yeah because it's. pretty nuts they have like a specific. machine for each one of these things um. and again you you kind of touched on it. like this is a very automated process. but there's humans overseeing the. automation at like every step of the way. so there there's like people working in.

conjunction with machines is kind of. beautiful in a way um what I hope the. future's like rather than the machines. just completely dominating us into. Extinction but um I saw some probably. some of those same videos you did where. they'll like take a shirt and then puff. it up with air Suddenly It's Like An. Invisible person's in the shirt and then. they're running like steam through it. and getting like the press to it it's. pretty neat yeah it's amazing uh they. put it on this for called a shirt Buck. uh or it could be a double Buck or a.

triple Buck if there are several of. these and it's it's basically like a. almost like just a a torso form uh and. when they blast this steam in there it's. not it's not like when you have a. steamer at home like a home steamer and. you have a you know something hanging. and you're sort of gently steaming it. that's pitiful it is blasting steam in. there like you said to where it puffs up. whether it's uh pants or whether it's on. a shirt buck and uh while it is they do. this while it's wet uh then they they.

blow it out with that air in a very. violent manner to where it puffs up and. at that point the shirt looks really. good to my eyeballs uh or the pants or. whatever but that that is not it because. they still go through a ironing process. uh whether it is a um sort of an ironing. board with a big large press that closes. down like a coffin lid or a a huge line. of human beings with iron IRS that are. connected to a uh had like a tube coming.

from the ceiling yeah uh into the back. of the iron which what I assume is. delivering steam those are awesome so. they didn't have to keep like refilling. the iron with water right and they are. there are human beings ironing uh I saw. in case it matters the the toughest. thing and the most timeconsuming to. press are chinos oh or any kind of. cotton pant I would not have guessed oh. because they they take another like you. can so easily wrinkle them while you're. pressing one part of it I I guess got to.

be cuz that's my experience yeah but. it's it's pretty amazing and that's when. those things and when you and when there. are interviews with these people they're. really you can tell they're into making. the stuff look perfect yeah something we. should say um that I'm not sure if we've. gotten across but in the dry cleaning. process your clothes actually get. wet but in addition to that um there's a. reason why a lot of kinds of clothes say. dry clean only it's because they're very. delicate Fabrics they're Fabrics that. could shrink very easily that's one of.

the big problems with water water. penetrates Fabric and so it can actually. collapse like the tension of the weave. um it can cause like uh in like wool I. saw that wool hair fibers have scales. that the water basically makes stick. together and so it water shrinks things. dry cleaning solvents don't actually. penetrate the fabric they um manage to. get stains off but they don't they don't. do anything that would cause like your. your um your shirt or your sweater or. whatever to shrink and they're much more.

delicate on the the Garment itself like. yeah it tumbles and all that stuff but. it's much softer much more delicate so. there's a reason why some things say dry. clean only um and there's so that's. essentially the point of dry cleaning is. it treats Fabrics much more gently in. the process and in in the types of um. chemicals that are used yeah I mean even. if you're uh just standard clothing like. the washing and drying process at home. is just it's rough on clothes period.

sure uh that's what causes a lot of like. wear and tear on your clothes it's not. necessarily from lit literally wearing. it but uh just that washing and drying. process is just it's tough you know yeah. no it is plus it's timec. consuming yeah you ever do that uh did. you ever do that deal like when you were. a single guy where you would drop your. laundry off and have someone else do it. I I think I might have in college. although this could be one of those. things where I'm like making up memory. just to you know sound like a big shot.

but I I think maybe once but no for the. most part I would do it myself now. yumi's like I got the laundry I know. what I'm doing you just spray shout on. your stuff and I'll wash it yeah I I did. it occasionally back in the day um when. I was super broke I would scrape up. enough money to have someone do my. laundry because it was just really there. was nothing like it you know that's. awesome man I got one other thing do you. have something else what you want. none all right uh you know how they put.

plastic over your your um dry cleaning. when you take it home yeah that process. is even cool it is pretty cool it's a. machine with a human working with the. machine is it not okay yeah so that's. intended to get your stuff home to keep. your dirty nasty Cheetos filled car from. getting your new clothes cleaned or your. new clean clothes dirty when you get it. home you want to take it off you want to. take the plastic off and recycle it you. can recycle plastic like that it's. called called plastic film at your. grocery store along with your plastic.

grocery bag so don't throw it away. recycle it but get it off your clothes. immediately when you get home because it. can actually really become harsh and. just trapped in the clothing under the. plastic you don't want to just store. your clothes in plastic in your closet. if if if I walk into your closet and you. got a bunch of stuff hanging there in. dry cleaner bags I'm calling the police. cuz I'm in fear for my life for sure. because there's probably a person in one. of those bags too right yeah and you. know who never I never saw that uh in.

you know whose closet I never saw that. in Rad's dad Wayne Smith that's right no. way uh all right should we take another. break I think so all right we're gonna. come back and basically the rest of the. episode is going to be about. [Music]. [Applause]. chemicals. [Music].

[Music]. all right we promis talk of chemicals. and that's what we're going to do. because uh we're going to talk a lot. about perk um just statistically we can.

go ahead and throw out some numbers UH. 60 to 65% of dry cleaners in the United. States still use perk that sounds High. fairly high it's higher in Europe uh. about 85% that's higher yeah that's a. good average because I I did see other. numbers but that looks to be about the. average right uh and I also found this. that a lot of EU countries have mandated. fifth generation machines uh although. you could get.

a. um there are allowances if you have a. fourth generation if you do all this. other stuff right uh in the US you can. have if you have a second generation. machine there are no first generation. anymore basically yeah that was the. separate washer dryer yeah yeah uh if. you have a second generation machine in. the US you can uh upgrade it I'm sorry. you have to upgrade it to at least a. fourth MH and if you have a third third. it can actually be retrofitted to make.

it a fourth but they're not selling or. installing anything anymore unless it's. a fifth generation I gotta unless you. like know a. guy yeah and that's because perk is a. neurotoxin and it causes all sorts of. problems with people and the environment. yeah we talked about how the stuff that. perk replaced turned out to be. neurotoxins well perks are neurotoxin. too which I mean just the fact that it's. related to um chloroform is probably. something of a giveaway yeah um but it's.

even worse than anyone thought and in. like the 90s the United States EPA. started being like hey we've been. studying this perk on the side here and. it's actually really bad it can do some. ACT some magical stuff like for all. intents and purposes it's magic in the. the way that it can move through the. environment for example when we talked. about those transfer machines truck. where you would take the wet perk Laden. laundry and move it into the dryer spill. we do at home the exactly but imagine.

it's perk dripping on your floor that. perk is able to travel through concrete. through soil and get into. groundwater and even while it's getting. into groundwater other molecules of perk. are getting stuck in the little air. pockets vaporizing and spreading. elsewhere and then going up into. neighboring buildings and people are. breathing it in there and again this is. a neurotoxin it's a carcinogen and it is. the thing that has fueled the dry. cleaning industry for the last 80 years.

and we're just starting to realize that. if you have an old dry cleaning facility. that you own it's probably a super fun. site and you're going to have to spend. an eye popping amount of money to clean. it up or else you'll I don't know about. go to jail but you certainly will never. be able to sell the place yeah I was uh. I was reading up on some EPA studies and. they followed a group of Cape Cod. communities and this one study MH uh. because apparently there was a lot of um.

perk uh in their area a lot of perk. prolonged perk exposure and they found. that it was in the drinking water in. these Cape Cod communities and in these. communities they found a host of. pregnancy related issues over the years. uh as well as an increased risk of. bipolar disorder illicit drug use PTSD. vision problems and some kinds of cancer. wow uh you know. not going to say like every single bit. of that is perk but this was a very.

long-term study over this community or. these communities were kind of riddled. with perk exposure uh and it's so bad. that uh the EPA said by December. 2020 um it's legal to use it but you. can't be in a like a residential. building you can't be on the ground. floor of a New York City apartment. building right and still be using perk. and States like California of course. have completely banned perk as of this. year Well is this coming out next year.

or this year as of uh yeah it's coming. out next year so we're talking about. last year yeah which is 2023 right yeah. so they said we're done it's it's over. like we're you can't use perk anymore. and not only that um we're requiring you. again remember these small business. owners um to pay for these cleanups like. as a I think the small business. administration passed a rule that said. if you own a dry cleaner or you own a. building that has historically housed a.

dry cleaner even decades ago you have to. pay an environmental consultant to come. in and tell you whether your site's. contaminated and I think there was a. 2002 Florida study this is 2002 I'm so. there was the I couldn't find a more. updated one but it said that um they. found uh dry cleaner contamination and. migrated off site at 50 57% of. contaminated sites and a more recent. study by the EPA found that.

75% of dry cleaning sites are. contaminated and they think there's. possibly 9,000 to 990,000 former dry. cleaning sites that are contaminated as. well wow yeah and you have to pay. sometimes a few million dollars to. remediate this site what's nuts Chuck I. don't know if you saw in that San Louis. Obispo um article that. even if you're like if you're a barber. shop and there used to be a dry cleaning.

place in your building in your shop 20. years before long before you ever came. along and bought the place you still. have to have that um environmental study. run and then pay for any cleanup that's. found wow it's nuts it's off the The. Rails right now yeah uh and you know all. the damage we were talking about. potential risk uh and damage to humans. that's not even you know covering the. damage that it does to aquatic creatures.

and the fact that this runoff it you. know once it gets into the groundwater. and then the runoff in various uh you. know bodies of water really really bad. for you know basically anything in the. water so a lot of people are like well. I'm just going to close up shop and. they're like you still have to pay for. it you know like it's it's really a. nightmare for people who are just who. own these dry cleaning places and the. reason why they have like a real chance. or a case saying like why should we have. to foot this bill ourself um is because.

they were following like they often had. to get permits in some states to use. perk in decades past so govern gave them. exactly so they were following best. practices they were getting the permits. they needed to to use perk and now that. everybody's like perk's really bad you. need to clean it up they're like well. wait a minute I I need some help here so. I I hope just for the the um the small. business owners sake yeah that there's a. a sh in you know who needs to pay for. this because supposedly it's A8 billion.

problem in the United States alone wow. yeah so obviously um with the problems. of perk and the the shrinking numbers of. people using perk or dry cleaners using. perk you're wondering probably well what. what are they using these days uh green. dry cleaning is a thing now that is. becoming more widespread um kind of. slowly I guess but that seems to be the. future and they're currently four. different methods of uh quote unquote.

green dry cleaning uh and we're going to. talk about those I'm glad you I'm glad. you said quote unquote yeah because. because we're going to talk about some. green washing terms here in a minute too. for sure big time uh wet cleaning we're. there everyone it uses water we're back. to water uh uses water and these very. specialized detergents that are uh. basically just easier on your clothes. they're much Milder uh the EPA says it's. you know you're not using hazardous. chemicals you're not generating.

hazardous waste uh you're not generating. air pollution and you're not. contaminating the water around you. you're not going to be a super fun site. if you switch to wet cleaning uh but. that also costs money and that's why. places like King County where Seattle. Washington is is saying hey you can get. a grant um to help cover the costs of. which is like between 40 and 60 Grand. depending on how big your operation is. of switching to this Greener wet. cleaning right and some people are like.

it's not going to work as well as dry. cleaning and they're like give it a. chance where we've really made some. advances so the jury's out on wet. cleaning but I think just the fact that. it's one of the actual green. Alternatives that is is truly green and. it isn't. greenwashing um there's who knows it. might be the future of dry cleaning is. wet cleaning which I wonder if they'll. still call it dry cleaning I bet they. will you think so yeah you can't I mean. that's a there's such brand identity. there yeah for sure it's not a brand but.

you know what I mean uh tell us about. liquid CO2 because that's another good. one huh this one is supposedly totally. non-toxic environmentally friendly um. and it uses liquid CO2 which um you know. like the power of oxy or how you use. like baking soda and stuff like that. carbon dioxide can actually lift stains. off of fabrics so this is a combination. of liquid CO2 and gas CO2 that's used. instead of solvents or I guess as a. solvent in dry cleaning machines um and.

the problem with these there's very few. problems they they actually use CO2. that's captured from other industrial. sites so the CO2 that's being used in. these New Generation Um liquid CO2 dry. cleaning machines would have become air. pollution otherwise so they figured out. a way to divert air pollution into dry. cleaning um the real downside of is it's. really really expensive to switch over. to CO2 um cleaning machines I think.

they're about 150 Grand each which is. like three times more than a perk. machine yeah like a Gen 5 perk. exactly band name gen five per yeah I. think so again one of your like early. bands before you like really form a good. band it. yeah uh there's also a one this is the. third one on our list called. df200 hydrocarbon. solvent uh this is the one where they're.

they're using the term organic uh. they're saying this solvent is organic. and that is uh that is where you got to. get a little things get a little tricky. because uh organic is very much or very. much can be a greenwashing word yeah I'm. not saying that is in this case. necessarily but it can okay well it's. very misleading because um organic means. that it has uh What uh Green Earth and. we're going to talk about them in a. second Green Earth says that just means. it has a carbon backbone yeah like G.

gasoline is organic and when you see. words like organic or. biodegradable like that doesn't mean. that it's awesome things can biodegrade. into a hazardous substance still yeah so. df200 is produced by Exxon Mobile if. that gives you any Clarity on whether. it's green or not and even the the. container it looks like a five gallon. jug of motor oil essentially um there's. I think kico makes their own version. whatever and it's a it's a petroleum.

based solvent just like they used to use. back in the day where dry cleaners blew. up once in a while um if you're using a. hydrocarbon solvent you have to have a. air pollution certificate um and it's. cheap like the machines that use them. are way cheaper than a liquid carbon. dioxide cleaning machine but currently. it's being you know touted as an organic. green alternative so some people are. starting to use this I would guess to. their dismay five or 10 years down the.

road because there are actual like green. Alternatives including liquid carbon. dioxide and wet cleaning yeah uh the. last one on our list here is a um. silicon based solvents and the biggest. it's a brand name the largest brand of. green dry cleaning processes is called. Green Earth all one word but still a. capital g capital E and they use Liquid. silicone which is uh odorless and. colorless and apparently is a great. carrier for detergents yeah it's also.

inert so remember we said that perk can. interact with your dyes and stuff and. and cause fading this stuff does not. interact with the fabric itself not not. chemically at least so it doesn't um it. doesn't cause any kind of fading or. anything like that and it breaks down. into sand and water and carbon dioxide. when you get rid of it right yeah the. problem is is it um releases dioxin when. it's produced it's a cinogen and I saw. somewhere that um it's been shown to be.

siloxane has been shown to be car. carcinogenic in rats and possibly. hepatotoxic which means it affects liver. function so this one is um very much. touted as a green alternative but the. jury is definitely still out on you know. whether it's it's non-toxic or not yeah. you know there are actually people in. the world I call them that guy mhm that. say things like he just don't get any. rats to work there problem solved who. says that just people show them to me.

it's like it's been you know this has. been shown to kill rats and they're like. oh so don't get any rats around it no. I'm with you it's like well hey how. about you get a job doing that working. with it then if you have no problems. with it Mr Smarty Pants uh so I think we. should repeat uh the CO2 the liquid. carbon dioxide cleaning is seems to be. the best most green process but is it's. just the cost of those machines there's. always a downside yes there's always a. downside I can't think of any wiser.

words to end this one on I got nothing. else you know I had to take my rug into. a dry cleaner not too long ago down the. street and they were very nice even. though they sent it to a facility and it. took far too long to correct uh this um. the stain on my rug in my new studio and. I was very mad because it was a brand. new uh I actually wouldn't stain it it. had gotten wet and it and it smelled it. was um what's like that sour wet smell.

from being Johnson. ised yeah listener. mail uh yeah Chuck said listener mail. everybody so that means it's time for. The Listener. me uh this is from Natalie hey guys I'm. a postu research scientist uh studying. paleo climatology and paleo oceanography. wow and that's from Natalie thanks. Natalie uh you guys always do a great. job with your Earth Science episode in.

the recent episode on plag tectonics so. was a bit of a missed opportunity though. to highlight a cool gal who played a. part in the acceptance of the theory of. plate tectonics Marie Tharp she created. the first world map of the seafloor and. discovered the Giant mountain range. between the Atlantic Ocean that we now. know as the Mid-Atlantic range nice uh. that's pretty amazing uh because she is. a woman in science she had to fight a. bit of an uphill battle to get her work. accepted she talks about how her initial.

interpretations were dismissed as quote. girl talk jeez uh she was confined to. the background with her male colleague. getting much of the credit for her ideas. until more recently seems like a fun. person and even mentions how she wanted. to include mermaids and shipwrecks in. the first map uh but her colleague Bruce. Heen would have none of it come on. Bruce that's fun for sure uh there's a. great photo of her looking like a a ba.

smoking a cigarette at her drafting. table and that is from Natalie thanks a. lot Natalie yeah it's kind of. disappointing we didn't run across her. in our research but maybe we weren't. looking in the right places Chuck well. it sounds like there's a pretty good. reason for that so uh hats off our Beret. is off to Marie th Marie th look out for. an episode on her at some point in time. her and our friend Frederick. Johnson Gabby Johnson no not Gabby. Johnson you know the guy who uh. originally invented dry cleaning back in.

1821 Oh Thomas. Jennings yeah we should totally do one. on Thomas Jennings I was way off with. Frederick. Johnson that's all right I think Gabby. Johnson canus you so too well if you. want to get in touch with us like. Natalie did uh you can send us an email. you can send it to stuff podcast at. iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts from. iHeart Radio visit the iHeart Radio app.

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