Contortionism: Bend It Like Gumby | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. to zoo, which makes this dizz. >> That's right. Boy, Olivia had a good. title on this one. >> Did you like it? Go ahead. Uh, well, this is about contortionists. and Livia titled uh what she sent us,

Bend It Like Gumby. >> That's right. >> I think it's good. >> It is good. Um, yeah, Olivia always. comes up with the best titles. >> Yeah. And now we know that she listens. to some of these because she heard you. uh take a dig at her. >> about explaining what a a socket and um. an electrical plug does. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. She's a good sport, though. Uh, let's see what else. Chuck, I guess. you already spoiled what this episode's. about. It's about contortionism, which I.

guess we were going to have to get into. eventually. >> Yeah. I mean, obviously, we're talking. about uh bending your body, >> right? >> In ways that are Yeah. Like Gumby, bending your bodies in ways that are uh. extraordinary. >> And as we have learned, it's something. that maybe you're kind of born with and. definitely something you can work. toward. And maybe a bit of both. >> Yeah. I always assumed it was just a. born thing and that like one out of. every 15 million people were born as a. contortionist essentially. And I figured.

yes, of course they have to train and. everything and you know choreograph. There's a lot of types of contortionism. that are essentially contortionist. ballets especially like the ones you see. at Cirtole. Um which if you say that funny it's a. hilarious thing to say. >> It's a good joke. >> Yeah. Um, but uh I guess I just didn't. realize that it is something you can. like you or I could go train to be a. contortionist. We would fail utterly, but we could at least go train in our.

50s and still do a lot better than we. can right now because it is something. you can adapt your body to. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh, and it's also. something that's been around a long long. time, right? >> Yeah, it has one more thing. Um, it will. help you a lot while we're going through. some of this stuff to just if you can. look it up, watch videos, but even like. just photos sometimes can kind of get. the point across. It's it's just one of. those things. While we were studying. this, I was like, this is going to kind.

of be tough to to describe in some. cases, but we'll do our best. >> Yeah. Well, I don't think it's going to. be that hard to follow. People know what. we're talking about. >> Okay. So, we are talking about. contortionism, and you did say that it. is very, very old. The oldest thing. we've found that is pretty much a. certainty that they're depicting a. contortionist was a image that was found. in Syria, an old old Polaroid from 2300. B.CE. And there's some contortionists. and they're holding swords. And the best.

that historians can come up with is that. it's possible that so there's some. Hittite writings that describe a. performance where contortionists. basically jump through um hoops of. swords as basically a well performance. essentially that basically say can you. do this? No, you can't. >> Yeah. And you know that followed uh of. course we have to talk about all the. usual suspects. Of course China will. come in, don't worry. But ancient Egypt, uh, they found pottery fragments that. date to,200 B.CE.

>> that definitely show, um, >> women dancing in back bends, like, you. know, contorting themselves. >> Sure. >> And the Greeks also did this later on as. well, right? >> Yeah. The Greeks is where we finally. start to get to unambiguous descriptions. of contortionism. Um, I think as far. back as well, the like about 2500 years. ago, something like that. um. contortionists had had become like an. actual thing like they were part of. troops or performers that performed in.

in Greece. Like if you went to say a. public festival, let's say Dianisis was. being celebrated that day. There's a. chance that you might find somebody. doing a contortionist act as just kind. of part of the festivities. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh and you know, I. mentioned China and this is one of those. cases where we don't know if it uh if. people in China and and this was like. 221 B.CE CE to 220 CE. >> if they were influenced by people from. other parts of the world or not or. whether it developed independently when.

people over there realized that they. were bendy. >> Uh but when they look at like some of. the clothes that contortionists were. wearing in China seems like it maybe was. influenced by uh people in Europe but. also could have been maybe that's just. uh the garb. >> They were all wearing benaton. >> Yeah, exactly. Stretchy stuff. So, uh, yeah, that's very interesting. because usually something came out of. China and it influenced Europe rather. than going the other way around, especially that far back. So, I I'm,

yeah, as a a person of European. ancestry, I'm I'm quite proud of that. >> Uh, of course, you know, you would think. uh India is probably a pretty obvious. spot for contortionism, and you would be. right because there are sculptures and. temples from India. Uh these date to. 10th century CE uh that also show women. in contorted poses. Uh this time it got. a little sexier though. >> Yeah. I think a lot of times you think. about something like the Kama Sutra and.

there are definitely contortionist poses. in the Kama Sutra. Yeah. >> But there's the to just think of it as. like oh this is just you know like you. said just sexy. There's a spiritual. aspect to that whole thing too. It's. like a tantric yoga um practice. Um, but it is also sexy just admittedly. But there's this that made me kind of. wonder, Chuck, like did like yoga and. Buddhism and Hinduism and the. incorporation of all these physical. movements that include contortionism,

did that kind of come out of um this. contortionist. um I guess heritage or whatever that. dates back to at least the Hittites? um. or was what the Hittites were doing. essentially the foundation for what. would later become, you know, Buddhism. and Hinduism? >> Yeah. And to be clear, when we say sexy, we mean their depictions of actual. intercourse, uh, because. >> one of the things that's really annoying. to me about all of this, and Livia picks.

this up sort of at the end of the. article, but I'm going to go ahead and. address it now, >> is that if you get, you know, a hundred. people in a room and there's a. contortionist, there's probably going to. be some dim-witted man making some. stupid sexual reference about somebody. being bendy, about a woman being bendy, and that's just dumb. So, that's not. what we were talking about. We were. talking about like, you know, actual. pictures of uh sexual positions in this. case. >> I think that was great because I you. could interpret a way where we sounded. like dirty old men essentially.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. The guys who like kind of elbow. one another like, "Huh, check it out.". Huh. >> I mean, come on. >> So, some people just have a further way. to come than other people, you know? >> Yeah, that's true. >> So, back to India itself. there there's a clear um like comparison. between contortionism and yoga today. And actually it's kind of neat because. if you go online and you look up like. contortionism or training or something.

like that, it's essentially people who. are into yoga and they're trying to. figure out how to go even further. So. they're following ancient practices that. have been around for hundreds if not. thousands of years um that are. contortionist in in by nature. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh England might not be. the most obvious place to think about. men uh doing contortionist poses but. that's exactly what happened in 17th and. 18th century there uh in the form of. posture master masters. Posture masters.

is what they were called. That sounds. like a mattress. >> A posture master. Uh but that's what was. going on. It was it's a little odd to. think about now but there you know it. might be like an actual performance. Maybe sometimes it was um something that. they would do on the street to raise. money uh like busking or maybe to try. and instead of like holding a sign. outside your business, there might be a. a male posture master sitting outside. your tavern to try and get people in. there. But it was kind of a big deal and. they kind of became sort of famous in.

England at the time. >> Yeah. Um I mean this was before TV, radio, internet, even newspapers in a. lot of cases. Um, and there you could as. a male contortionist in particular, because it was a male-dominated field at. this time, at least in Europe, and it. seems like basically throughout the. world, um, that you could become. distinctly famous, like a guy named. Joseph Clark, who apparently in the late. 17th century was, um, a very very famous. contortionist in England. So much so.

that his last name um was shorthand for. contortion in England and then. eventually would morph into um shorthand. for giving somebody something that they. want. >> That's right. uh the circus is obviously going to come. into play and that is when the circus. came into play and that was and we you. know we've done quite a few episodes on. the circus back in the day but as a. reminder this was late 18th century when. Philip and Patty Ashley uh they had a.

you know a lot of the early circuses. were like um horse riding tricks like. equestrian stuff. >> and theirs definitely formed out of that. out of their Ashley's riding school in. London. >> and uh you know once the circus started. spreading around. It came to the United. States and within that circus world, contortionists started kind of. performing on the regular uh but you. know it started to get and which is like. it is today. It gets kind of mixed in. with other sort of acrobatics. >> Yeah. And just stepping back a couple of.

paces once it reached Europe and England. in the 17th and 18th century there was. no spirituality associated with it once. it reached Western Europe. it was. performance from that point on, you. know. Um, and yeah, once it hit the. circus, it's really started to morph. into what we understand as contortionism. today. Um, there was one trick I have to. say that Patty Ashley did on her horse. in the very beginning of circuses. She. would ride her horse really fast and her.

um, uh, arms would be covered in bees. >> Yeah. >> That's a wild ride for That's a wild. ride for everybody involved. >> Yeah. But, you know, maybe she was a. beekeeper. >> It doesn't matter what she was doing, Chuck. She was riding full throttle on a. horse with bees all over her arms. I. mean, I'm assuming like they changed. like the shape of her arms because there. were so many bees, that kind of thing. Not like two or three bees on each arm. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That wouldn't have.

much impact, I don't think. >> That impressed me quite a bit. >> Yeah. Pretty good trick. So, uh, the. actual word contortionist that that came. around in 1860 before then, uh, you. know, it was just called other stuff. depending on what culture it was coming. from. But, uh, if you were in the US or. if you were in England performing as a. contortionist, uh, you probably said. that you were either Chinese or Turkish. or German or French or maybe you were. Uh, you might have just claimed to be. one of those things because it had such. a rich tradition in being bendy like.

that. But uh at this point it was. started to be mainly women who were. hired by male circus owners and a lot of. times performing uh exclusively for male. audiences, >> right? Um, and so yeah, it kind of. evolves even further. And luckily that. that um. >> that went from like the point of a. contortionist act eventually evolving. to, you know, a couple of dudes in the. audience like elbowing one another where.

most people are like getting what the. point is. But that said, there are. contortionist acts today um that are. very much geared toward the the sexual. nature of the whole thing. Um, and you. know they're performed by women who are. doing that on purpose. So you you know. whatever more power to them. There is. like a a a thread of that. Like you. can't just be like nope that doesn't. exist. Stop stop saying that. But the. point of most contortionist um. performances it seems like is not that.

That's a very niche thing these days. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh there was one, you. know, kind of notable early. contortionist we got to mention here. named uh well her real name was. Beatatric Mary Claxton, but Beatatric. Claxton isn't the best name for a. contortionist. So she went by Anna. Berldi, which is much more of a sort of. a circusy name. >> And starting at like age 8 years old, she was touring around and as we'll see, you know, contortionism is is mainly a.

sport of the young. you can age out of. it like ballet in a lot of cases, but. >> she was a kid doing it and she performed. all over Great Britain and then. eventually traveled to the US in 1891. >> And one of the reasons we mentioned her. is because she was uh very famously one. of the early people that Thomas Edison. uh filmed with his kinettocope. >> Yeah. Um which is pretty cool. I mean, you have to be pretty famous in and of. yourself to do that, but to to to, you. know, be memorialized in one of the.

earliest film strips is definitely going. to help your fame later on in history as. a contortionist, I would think. >> Yeah, for sure. >> So, you want to take a little bit of a. break and come back and talk about the. epicenter, ground zero of contortionism? >> Where could that be?

stuff. >> Okay, so we're back and I talked about. the epicenter of contortionism and I'm. just going to reveal it now. It's. Mongolia, everybody. >> That's right. uh it is has long been. that um sort of epicenter. It still is. that epicenter. Uh and we're going to. tell you why because uh one of the. reasons it started as a big deal there.

is or at least we think that it you know. had to do with sort of uh meditative. practices and also like a a dance a. Buddhist dance known as the psalm uh. which is you know also you know it's. very religious obviously tied to. Buddhism but has to do with you know. training your body and mind to work. together to do incredible things. I I. also saw that it has secret meeting. meanings that you have to be a very high. highly advanced Buddhist monk to to. basically be led in on which is pretty.

neat. >> Oh, cool. >> There's also a folk dance in Mongolia. that's um indigenous to Mongolia from. what I understand. BLG B I E L G E. And. um as far as folk dances go, I'm not. usually a huge fan of folk dance. Like I. wouldn't go to a community center to see. a folk dance performance, but this is a. pretty cool folk dance to to just check. out on video in part because of the. movements which include contortionism, including full back bends to where the.

dancers's back is like flat on the. ground while they're on their knees. Um, but also just the incredibly colorful. costumes that they wear, too. It's. really neat. >> What is a poke dance performance? Like, what are you avoiding? I don't even know. what that means. It's kind of like when. um when people from different cultures. perform traditional dances. >> Oh, okay. >> That's a folk dance. >> I got you. Okay. >> I mean, what do you think? Like square. dancing? I guess that's probably a type.

of folk dance. >> Yeah. No, it's just, you know, any kind. of cultural dancing. It for some reason. it's never floated my boat. But. >> I got you. >> I'm not yucking anyone's yum because I. couldn't do a single step of any folk. dance. And I'm usually impressed with. anybody who can dance in any way, shape. or form. >> Yeah, me too. Uh so 12th century is when. it starts to become a really sort of. mainstream thing in Mongolian uh culture. basically at you know festivals uh court.

appearances obviously. >> and then 17th century is when uh there. was a Buddhist leader named Andor Gigin. Zenzavar who inspired these uh. contortionists with these um I guess. they were uh was it like just art. sculptures basically the people like in. all sorts of kind of uh contorted. positions. >> Yeah. He was like, "Do that position. I. dare you." He would make sculptures of. them. Yeah. I thought that was. >> Yeah. And the guy was so um I guess.

popular that like he actually advanced. contortionism by pushing them to their. limits, I guess. >> Wow. >> As a sculptor. >> Yeah. I mean, you can bend clay in ways. you can't bend a body. >> That's right. That's why you can bend it. like Gumby, man. >> That's right. So, uh, Mongolia is, and I. thought this was pretty interesting, too. There's like contortionism evolving. in different places around the world, you know, kind of simultaneously. Um, but Mongolia basically took the.

mantle. And one of the reasons why is. because they became a Soviet state in. the ' 40s. Uh, and as part of the USSR, the um government bankrolled the um. Mongolian State Circus, which became. worldrenowned. Uh, it traveled the. world. That's one of the ways it became. worldrenowned. but also because they. were really really good. And one of the. centerpieces of the Mongolian State. Circus was contortionism. Um and from that it grew in popularity. very very quickly because there was a. lot of funding for it. There's a lot of.

publicity for it. But um that created a. mushrooming of um uh contortionist. schools in Mongolia. Some of which are. still around today. >> Oh yeah, for sure. uh the first one and. the first sort of you know superstar of. that circus was a contortionist named uh. Tinda. and that was the first school but um. like you said there's a there's a lot of. them still there and it's not just like. uh hey if you're from Mongolia and. you're a young girl and your parents.

think you're like pretty flexible early. on they may send you to this like that. certainly happens but people from all. over the world like gymnasts will go and. train like anyone who wants to um sort. of increase your flexibility in an. extreme way, there's no better place in. the world to go than a contortionist. school in Mongolia. >> No, they know what they're they're. doing, in other words. >> Yeah, for sure. Their their circus isn't. nearly as big ever since they uh peeled. away from the Soviet Union in the early. 90s, but it's still like a a big kind of.

rich tradition in that country. >> Oh, yeah. Big time. Right now, the. biggest uh school, I think the oldest. school is owned by a former sumo. wrestler. Uh, and he is Mongolia's um. most famous, most revered sumo wrestler. He got out of the sumo game and um. bought the school for um contortionism. The thing is, it's kind of in this. decline. So much so that um Mongolia has. been trying to get UNESCO heritage.

protection for Mongolian contortionism. because it's just not quite as. widespread even though there's more. schools than ever. It's just become much. more diluted. Uh I think there's a lower. barrier to entry for being like say a. teacher or a school owner or something. like that. And then simultaneous to. that, a lot of Mongolian um. contortionist trainers are going abroad. and so they're taking it with them. But. at the same time, someone in say like. England who sees a English. contortionist, they don't they're not.

regarding the idea that that person was. trained by a Mongolian contortionist um. teacher, they are looking at the English. contortionist. And so in that way, it's. becoming less and less identified with. Mongolia. >> Yeah. And it's kind of I was kind of. disappointed that UNESCO turned them. down. Uh they tried to get, you know, it. added as a list of intangible heritage, which it seems very clear that that's. the case. Uh but they rejected the. proposal. This was in 2011. Uh they said.

that advocates didn't make a strong. enough case for its significance in. Mongolian culture and society, which. just uh I don't know. I I'm not on that. um board obviously, but it seems pretty. obvious to me as an outsider that it's. like super tied to Mongolian culture. >> Sure. Well, you will be heartened that. the Mongolian folk dance BLG is uh. protected under UNESCO heritage. >> Well, just take it one step further, UNESCO. >> That's right. One. >> What's the big deal? I. >> I I don't know. I was trying to think.

about that. I'm sure that they have a. kind of mentality that's like we don't. want to open the floodgates or else, you. know, >> but I mean there's plenty of stuff that. that I'm sure deserves protecting that. they're turning down. And you know what? I'd be interested to know about that. I'm going to look into that and we'll do. a short stuff on all the stuff UNESCO's. turned down for heritage protection. >> Well, if you want to learn about the. mechanics, uh, now is your time to. listen closely. Um, this is the point. where you were probably talking about. maybe looking up pictures and stuff, but.

you know, I think a lot of people have. seen a lot of this stuff. If you've ever. watched uh when we were kids, that's. incredible. >> or America's Got Talent these days, they'll have acts like this or certainly. if you've ever been to like Cirus Sole. or something. >> Yeah. Uh but back bending there's like. kind of six main um sort of uh overall. things you can learn and then within. that you can do all sorts of stuff to. incorporate little side tricks and then. you know mix these together for you know.

performative purposes. But back bending. that's sort of the classic place that. you start the classic back bend. >> Yeah. Um, one of the things is the chest. stand. And um, essentially it's where. you're on your chest. See? So, I'm going. to everybody get in this position. I'm. going to walk you through it. Um, you're. on your chest flat. I guess it's prone. on the floor. And you bend your your um. yourself at the waist and you bring your. hips back back back. And then you have. your feet on either side of your head.

You can do this everybody. Just hang in. there. And then your feet are fat flat. on the floor on either side of your. head. Remember, you're still on your. chest, but now your legs are completely. over you and your feet are on either. side of your head, flat on the floor. That's the chest stand. That's the most. basic one. Anybody can basically do that. just jumping into it. >> Well, my only note with that description. is uh when you said your waist went. back, back, technically, I think your. waist is going forward, forward,

forward. So, that might have confused. people. Okay. Yeah. I think maybe that's why I. was like, "This is um this is hard to. describe because I knew I was going to. screw it up just royally.". >> Well, you've also got the front bend. Uh. if someone has got a little humor to. their performance, you're probably going. to use a front bend because that is when. you're sort of doing the opposite in. which you fold your head and chest all. the way between your legs to where. you're sort of looking at your own butt. So, obviously, insert joke right there.

>> Yes. These are the ones that really get. to me. Like the there's like some sort. of prednatural like zap that um that. contortionist poses can do to you or to. me at least. And the the like the human. pretzel one or the human not. >> those are the ones that they just zap. me. It's a very thrilling way, but at. the same time I'm like. >> there's some part of my lizard brain. that like that ain't right. The body's. not supposed to do that.

>> Yeah. I mean, we go to Circus Sole every. year when it comes to Atlanta in the. fall. That's kind of one of our little. family traditions. >> And there's always some kind of. contortionist, I feel like. But. >> yeah, >> this last one, and I can't remember. which one it was called, but uh they had. a guy, and it was he was the best I had. ever seen. It was uh I wasn't quite sure. what I was watching at certain points. where you can't even tell which arm was. which or. >> you know it was definitely one of those.

uh brainbreaking sort of performances. It was incredible. >> Yeah, for sure. Um those are I think one. of the other things too that I've noted. especially with Cirus Sole performances. is it's not just like a hey look I'm in. this pose and I'm holding this pose and. now I'm just going to get into the next. pose. like the the transition from one. pose to another is incredibly important. and that's kind of what makes it like a. very balletike performance, you know? I. think that's just um that makes the. whole thing like even more amazing but. at the same time more it zaps me less.

than just like a here's a pose, check it. out. Let it really sink in what I'm. doing right now. >> It's almost it's like I like it when. when it's the way that you describe. where you like can't even tell what's. what. >> Yeah. I mean, I think definitely the. next part balancing is when that comes. into play. That's um I think a lot of. like the feats of strength combined. with, you know, I said they kind of mix. things up in uh in circuses. >> and the feats of strength is definitely. where balancing comes in because that's.

when you're contorted in a pose and. maybe you're like uh lifting yourself. off the ground in in a little ball that. you can't even figure out with just like. your fingertips or something like that. >> Yeah. A very famous one of these is the. Marinelli bend. And that is essentially. kind of like it's like a chest stand. Um. it's very similar to a chest stand. except that rather than um having your. weight on your chest, you have all of. the weight in your entire body on your. teeth and you're probably biting a pole. and that's what's holding you up while.

you're doing your chest and in the. middle of the air. >> It's it's quite impressive. And I looked. it up. There is a Mongolian um. contortionist named Satral Erdenabilig. and she holds the record for holding a. Marinelli bend for four minutes and 17. seconds. >> That's a long time. >> with her teeth. >> Yeah. Uh dislocation. That's another one. that uh probably might trigger some. folks. Uh that is kind of one of those. deals where you're it looks like you're.

popping your shoulder or your arm out of. joint or something like that. um to achieve the sort of performative. effect. Um the shoulder pass through was. sort of a classic move. Uh that's where. you hold a stick with both hands and you. move the stick all the way, you know, in. front of your body and then over your. head and to your back, but you're not. changing your grip. So your arms are. twisting and uh contorting in ways that. look like they've been dislocated. >> Yeah. Uh the splits too. Um I always.

think of the splits as kind of like a. cheer Yeah. It's classic. It's like a. cheerleader thing or you know your. friend in the neighborhood can do it. Um, have you ever done a split? >> No, I'm I'm not uh splitty. I mean, I. used to be very flexible. >> Mhm. >> Like I could put my my ankle like my. foot behind my head. >> Wow. >> Uh when I was young and stuff like that. and. >> when I was one. >> come close now. And Ruby the other day. was just laughing at me because I was. actually fairly close. But. >> uh I was never a splitter.

>> All right, fair enough. I wasn't either. Um, but one of the basic things that you. have to to learn is the splits because. so many of the um the other kind of. movements and poses are based on being. able to do a split. It's a basic one, but if you really want to be impressed, go look up overslits, which is doing a. split, but say one foot is on a chair in. front of you and the other foot is on a. chair behind you and you're a foot or so. off of the ground. Um almost making a.

just the beginnings of a U with your. legs. >> Yeah, I like that standing split uh. where you're on one leg and you have uh. reached behind you and and grabbed that. foot and brought it all the way over. That's always because that's also. incorporates balance obviously. >> I don't remember who did that, but one. of the I think the one of the American. skaters in the Winter Olympics did that. while they were doing like a spin. >> Yeah. Oh yeah. But it was like perfectly. 90 degrees um perpendicular to to the.

ice. It was really amazing. >> Oh, you got to or you'll get that half. point deduction. >> Um and then twisting too. This kind of. twisting is not necessarily in and of. itself a pose, although it would be. impressive, but it's kind of like a a. fundamental part of a bunch of other. poses, right? or if you're twisting. yourself around or if you if you're. moving yourself so that you can't tell. what arm is what, um you're twisting to. some degree. And what's really.

fascinating to me about this is that. each individual vertebrae is rotating. and it's rotating to a degree that um. the average person can't do obviously, but the just the idea of your spine I I. would think of it as moving in one. thing, but it's just like dink dink dink. dink dink. Each vertebrae is moving. itself. Um I think that's an amazing. skill. just that like if somebody walked. up to me and said, "I can twist all of. my individual ver vertebra. Can you?" I.

would say, "I don't think I can.". >> Yeah. And I wouldn't know if I'm am. >> exactly. I know somebody's going to. write in and be like, "Don't be stupid, Josh. Everyone's vertebraist. individually." I get that. I guess I'm. trying to get across that I'm impressed. by contortionists. Okay, >> for sure. Uh should we take another. break? >> I think we should. >> All right. Hey, we're going to come back. and talk about sort of the dark side of. this right after this.

>> All right. Uh I promise talk of the uh. talk of the dark side. Um and that is to. say there are some um some syndromes and. some disorders that could lend itself to. this. Uh so I guess that's the dark.

side. Um the first thing we should clear. up is that doublejointed is not a thing. Uh I know that's something that everyone. kind of learned on the playground like. look I'm double jointed. >> Um but what people are people don't have. extra joints. What people are really. talking about there is what's called. hypermobility. >> Yeah. Um and that is something that. obviously if you are hyper mobile then. you are uh have a pretty good leg up to. being a contortionist and they would. diagnose that uh or I guess rather rate. your hypermobility on what's called the.

Baton scale. >> Yeah. >> And nine is the highest on that scale. and if you're a contortionist you're. probably a nine. >> Yeah. But also aren't you a jerk if you. make a scale and you just leave it at. nine rather than 10? I just I feel like. there had to be a reason for that, but I. didn't ask. >> Well, you um add a point for each thing. that somebody can do. So, it's things. like um can you touch your thumb to your. forearm? And I can do that very easily. >> I'm doing it right now over and over. again.

>> Um but you want to be able to do that. with each hand um there's like can you. does your knee go back a certain degree. um behind itself? There's just a bunch. of different ones and you add one point. for each limb that can do that and I. guess it just adds up to nine. He wasn't. being a jerk. I was just kidding. >> Yeah. So, uh I mentioned early on that. genetics could play a part. Uh and. that's certainly true. Um you know, if. your uh parents were contortionists or.

your mom is a contortionist, you may be. born more flexible. You may be born with. hypermobility. Um but sometimes it does. correlate like I said with the genetic. conditions. Uh the first one is uh EDS. uh Ellers's Danlos syndrome. Um there's. really 13 of those syndromes. So it. means that you know if you're a. contortionist you may have one of these. Not not always uh but it's possible. >> Yeah. I think it's sometimes called. circus sole disease. Yeah. And um there. are like you said 13 of them. They.

because they the one thing they have in. common is that they um affect your. connective tissue. So you can have one. that makes you very hyper mobile um very. um extendable, hyperextendable um. because the connective tissue in your. joints is not as say stiff as somebody. else's. So you can go way beyond the. normal range of motion. But then there's. also other ones that keep you from being. able to control your your own breathing. or your teeth fall out of your head. because your gums are not connective.

enough to hold them in there. So there's. a whole bunch of different ways that. this can affect you. It just happens. that a couple of the forms of EDS or a. couple of the symptoms of some types of. EDS make you much more hyper hyper. mobile and hyperextensive. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh sometimes if you are. hyper mobile and you have the EDS and. that's one of I guess sort of the. pluses. >> Yeah. Um, it can have some harmful. traits like uh although it can also help. with skin uh hyperextensibility. like having really stretchy skin uh or.

maybe joint instability is obviously a. bad one. >> because that can lead to injury and. dislocations and stuff like that. But um. we should point out that there doesn't. seem to be any like weird high rate of. injury for people who are uh involved in. contortionism and definitely not uh. doesn't mean like you're going to die. younger. That that's sort of a old wives. tale that contortionists die young but. that may have to do with uh the fact. that it could be um go along with some. of these syndromes.

>> Yeah. I also wonder if it has to do with. just going out of the public eye at a. very young age because in Mongolia I. think the average career of a. contortionist goes from about age six to. age 13. So I wonder if that just kind of. helped develop that old wives tale over. the years. >> Oh, like people think they died and just. aged out. >> Exactly. >> Oh, interesting. >> Um, one of the things that was always. kind of obvious to me is that women are. more flexible than men on the whole. Um. there are actually distinct. physiological reasons for this. One of.

which I mean body structure obviously. but hormones apparently affect your um. connective tissue and it's I guess um. strength or degree of flexibility. And. so when women take progesterine. um progesterine only birth control pills. they're more hyper mobile than when they. aren't on birth control pills. Isn't. that fascinating? Yeah, for sure. Uh, and then, you know, jumping back to the. syndromes, the second one is, uh,

something called Marfan syndrome, which. I feel like we've talked about at some. point. I know I've heard of it, but. that's another genetic condition that. makes that connective tissue like super. flexible, right? >> Um, in this case, it's about uh sort of. like uh EDS. It's about one in 4,000. each of them are. Um and you know this. one it can cause shortness of breath uh. heart palpitations, eye pain sometimes. Yeah. >> Uh and you know e those are the two main. ones but outside of this there's an.

umbrella term called hypermobility. spectrum disorder that kind of covers. >> you know other things that lend itself. to extreme flexibility. >> Yes. Um and like like you said you do. have advantages to this. So if you're a. woman on a high level of hormones who. has Marfan syndrome and uh maybe a high. hypermobility spectrum disorder, you are. probably a like what I thought all. contortionists were essentially a born. contortionist. There's challenges for. all the advantages that it offers and.

then obviously the drawbacks and other. ways that it affects your health. But as. far as contortionism goes, it has just a. suite of advantages for you. But there's. also like drawbacks in that like you. will have to probably do more strength. training than the average person because. again your connective tissue is weaker. than other people's which makes you um. easier to flex or more flexible. Um and. then also you might uh be more prone to. injury like you were saying. You can. dislocate way easier than other people. >> Yeah. But they've you know they've done.

studies and it's it's they haven't found. it's any different than any other sort. of you know professional athleticism. They've even put people in the the. wonder machine and had them contort in. an MRI and didn't see anything odd going. on. So, uh they basically said it's all. good. Keep doing what you're doing. >> Great. Nothing odd going on here. >> Yeah. >> Um so, if you wanted to get into. contorting, Chuck, where would you. start? That's the question I pose to you.

now. >> Let's start stretching immediately. >> I think I think that's a good good plan. Yeah, but you should probably start as a. small kid. Like some people get into. this uh as adults, but um much much much. more often. Like I would say 95% of the. time you're starting out as a kid uh. because you have a lot more, you know, you're flexible as a kid. You got more. collagen fibers going on. >> Your muscles and joints don't have as. much calcium at that point. So kids are. just bendy. >> They are super bendy. Um you also want.

to do a lot of strength training, too. And you're gonna like if you want to be. an actual professional contortionist, you're basically going to need to. dedicate your life to it. You have to. train every day uh for hours and hours a. day. Um and that whole stretching thing. is not just like what you do to warm up. There's it's actually part of your. training is to stretch because there's a. really uh interesting reflex called the. myotatic reflex. be myostatic. Um, but essentially when.

you flex a muscle or when you press on a. muscle. >> there, the reflex is that your muscle. automatically contracts. >> It's how your body keeps you from. falling down essentially is this this. automatic reflex. Um, the problem is. that keeps your muscles from expanding. or stretching further. So, if you just. stretch like normal, like if you do a. hamstring stretch, your muscles are no. longer than they were before you did. that hamstring stretch, it feels better. and they're looser, but they're not.

actually longer, which is really. important in contortionism. So, they've. figured out that there are certain ways. that you can do stretching. They're. called um proprioceptive neuromuscular. facilitation stretches. And essentially, this is how you train your body to. actually elongate the muscle fibers. >> Yeah. and you are well on your way at. that point. Uh you obviously got to be. drinking plenty of water too because. that's going to uh keep that spinal. support, keep those discs uh nice and. cushiony. And that's just a good uh.

obviously when they tell you to drink. water every day, there's lots of reasons. for that, but that's one of them. Just. as a regular old person walking around, not twisting themselves into shapes. >> True that. Uh and you know they have. found that it gets obviously it gets. better with time like when you when you. start training um your muscles aren't. going to change that much in the first. few weeks. Uh but your neurons actually. shift in their behavior and your pain. tolerance is going to increase. Yeah. >> And your range of motion is going to.

extend. And again this is just you know. for contortionism but flexibility and. and stretching is kind of one of the. keys to aging uh well you know. So, this. advice is for a lot of people. >> Yeah. Um, when I was looking up a lot of. the stuff for contortionism, you I ran. into tons of videos that were just like. for that, like just to become a more. flexible average person. It is a super. important. Agreed. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, if you want to go see um a. contortionist, there are videos on the.

web, but it's much much different to see. it in person. So, you know, >> maybe like you said, make an annual. pilgrimage to Cirus Sole like your. family, Chuck. >> Yeah, it I think it's fun. >> Um, well, since Chuck said he thinks. it's fun, everybody, that means it's. time for listener mail. >> Uh, guys, I'm going to call this uh no. corrections, just compliments. >> Nice. >> But that was in the subject line, so I'm. always prone to read one of those. Uh, it was a nudge. listening to Jane. Stanford episode was a nudge to finally.

write in and thank you guys for what you. do. And um so what uh Sarah has done. here was wrote a top uh sort of a stuff. you should know top 10 which means it's. four things long, >> five things long. Six, seven, eight, nine, 10. No, there's 10. But maybe I'll. read like six of them in true stuff you. should know style. >> Yeah. >> Uh so here we go with number 10. Thank. you for your friendly banter at the. beginning of the episode. Number nine, thank you for the witty episode names. Uh, number eight, we we always try to.

make the episode titles kind of fun. >> most of the time. >> Yeah, sometimes it's straightforward. You can't, you know, mock something. like, oh, I don't know, anything serious. or sad. >> Uh, number eight, thank you for the. movie, book, cocktail, uh, barbecue, rice, recipe recommendations that you. share. Uh, sometimes topic specific and. sometimes not. Number seven, thank you. for your obvious desire to not show just. kindness to different groups of people, but uh or be politically correct, but to. actually be kind to people. All right,

that's nice. >> Yeah. >> Uh number six, thank you for your. openness about your own lives, pets, and. relationships, which makes us feel like. we can relate to you. >> It's a good one. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Uh number five, thank you for being. surprisingly informative on unique. topics, but also admitting that some of. them are not as tantalizing. uh. parenthesis, I'm looking at you hard. sciences is what Sarah said. >> Uh and can we all admit that the true. crime and holiday extravaganzas are the. best. >> So Sarah's into those. >> Okay.

>> Uh number four, thank you for. coordinating the intro outro jingle to. the overall style of the episode. Uh we. need to thank one person and another. whole set of people for that. Obviously. Jerry is the one who's picking those. out. >> Sure. So, she's doing the coordination, but stuff you should know, listeners are. the people who perform in uh those to. begin with and record those. >> Yeah. And Dave and Ben pick them out, too. Jerry's the alltime goat. >> Yeah, for sure. >> She's the all-time greatest of all time. >> That's right. Uh number three, thank you. for the misprononunciations.

and the accents, especially in the. Halloween episodes. Sarah really gets. what we're trying to do here. Uh number. two, thank you for creating something we. can uh usually safely listen to with. kids in the car. uh and still be. entertained or just have on in the. background so we feel surrounded by. friends. Number one, uh thanks to you. both for coming to Madison, Wisconsin in. April. Stag second row seats. >> So, uh Sarah, I guess we'll be seeing. you on the second row there. And if you.

haven't got tickets for Madison yet or. Akran or Chicago, uh there are still. tickets available. >> Yeah, it's stuff you should know.com on. the tour button. >> That's right. >> That was really nice, Sarah. That was a. great email. I'm glad you selected that. one, Chuck. >> Yeah. Um, thank you very much for all. that, Sarah, and thanks for listening as. much as you obviously do. And, uh, if. you want to be like Sarah and send us a. clever, cool, neat email, we love those. You can send it off to stuffodcast@. iheartradio.com.

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