Conductors: What the heck is going on there? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh there's Chuck there's Jerry and you. put the three of us together stick a. bassoon a tuba and an OBO in our. mouths we'll pump out some stuff you. shoulda who plays what I play tuba okay. I guess I'll play the OBO leaves Jerry.

with a bassoon okay I think that's fair. that sounds right when I think Jerry I. think bassoon and vice versa uh that's. right so we need to thank Livia for this. one because she did a bang-up job and we. need to thank uh BBC Music Magazine and. Andrew Green um because Livia and us got. a lot of help from Andrew Green's primer. on conductors yeah and this one was my. idea because I think I just saw uh it.

wasn't from seeing the movie tar even. though I did see that uh that I saw that. in the theater a while ago when it was. out but it kind of hit me then even like. what what is this such a weird job that. I know nothing about uh and and what are. they doing up there and can anyone just. get up there and wave their arms. around sometimes from what I hear yes. there are some people doing that out. there but I found this thoroughly. enjoyable to research and uh hopefully.

talk about yeah good pick I'm not sure I. ever would have gotten to this one so. good job all right um so I think I think. you're probably in the majority of. people who don't really understand what. a conductor does aside from standing up. there and waving their arms yeah um I. know I was in that camp until fairly. recently um but the the stuff you see. conductors doing which is again. conducting a symphony waving their arms. there's a lot of method to that seeming. Madness and.

what you're seeing when you see that a. conductor conducting a symphony is the. culmination of a lot of other work. that's done behind the scenes before the. performance that the conductor does like. they really earn their money from what I. can tell yeah absolutely and just to be. clear I'm not such a rube that I was. like what are they just waving their. arms around uh because I I grew up in. choir uh singing tener in the choir and. so I certainly had my share of coral.

conductors um doing that stuff at me so. I I get what's going on there but um let. was just trying to make a joke oh okay. yeah I don't think anybody thought you. were a Rube well you never know maybe a. new listener who knows but you'd win. them over by the end of the episode. guaranteed I'm not a Ru I'm a. tener you're a tener huh I've never. really been much of a singer even though. I sang in a band but as a reminder the. band broke up and reformed without me oh. man yeah of the saddest Josh.

stories but also one of the most telling. isn't it no um should we go back in time. though please to when you first join. that band yeah I'm gonna take another. shot at it um no we're gonna go back in. time to tell you about the history of. conducting and uh this is sort of. prehistory stuff because conducting an. an orchestra to perform a symphonic. orchestral piece um wasn't really a. thing early on as far as using a.

conductor that it started with what I. was talking about which was Coral music. and vocal music right and we're talk in. you know uh in the early Century CE um. there were people that would keep a beat. and and stomp a foot or wave their arms. around to get a choir on point yeah. because one of the really important. things to remember throughout this. episode is that when you're playing. music by yourself you have to keep on.

Tempo mhm but as you add other people. whether you're playing music or singing. as you add other people they have to. keep on Tempo too but you all have to. keep on the same tempo yeah and it. really does help to have one person. who's keeping the tempo for everybody. else and that became apparent very early. on and that does seem to be kind of like. the the predecessor to the conductor but. it wasn't until the I think uh 18th and. 19th century yeah yeah that that kind of.

transition between the two where uh that. what we think of as a conductor today. kind of came along yeah I mean it was. you know choirs got bigger um orchestras. got bigger you know early on you might. have you know a six- piece Ensemble or a. four piece or maybe you know it would. even climb as high as like you know 15. or 20 what and and in those days you. would have somebody that was actually. playing in that Orchestra.

keeping the time A lot of times it was a. violinist uh and they would use their. bow to tap things out or wave the bow. around a little uh I think that's. probably due to the fact that a bow you. can see even when you're sitting down. you can hold it up and people can see it. um also a violinist a violin is very. small uh it would you know you wouldn't. ask the tuba player even though the tuba. is the bass and the Bas is the beat that. be would be you it'd be hard to like. keep the beat and play the tuba at the.

same like indicate the beat to the rest. of your Orchestra while playing the tuba. I would think it'd be hard to conduct. while playing the violin too well you're. not doing it while you're playing um. because the violin isn't always. playing okay you know what I mean I. think it's like during the time where. the vi like because they're not waving. their bow around and also playing at the. same time that's. impossible okay let's get in the way. back machine and go see ourselves.

yeah yeah there's someone they've got a. bow in their hand and they're playing. the violin and they certainly are not. able to wave it around at the same time. all right here's your five bucks. okay um yeah let's go. forward it does seem then yes to have. started with the violin who apparently.

did conduct while they weren't playing. um also the uh keyboardist whoever was. playing like the piano or the harpsicord. or something like that they might be. doing it too but the reason why even as. impressive as it is for somebody to be. in the actual orchestra playing music. and then also conducting whether they're. playing at the moment or not it's pretty. impressive but one of the reasons it was. possible is because technically speaking. or comparatively speaking the music that.

was being made until the early 19th. century was fairly predictable like it. stayed on a a general Tempo um it didn't. have all sorts of like sudden surprising. changes and twists and turns um so you. could actually keep an orchestra. together while you were playing the. violin or in between the moments you. were playing the violin it wasn't until. bethoven came along that the the real. need for a person whose entire job it. was was to conduct everybody else.

playing the music that that really. became a necessary role yeah absolutely. um in the classical era and that's um. not classical music as the broad term. but classical with a Capital C uh which. is to say the period from 1750 to 1830. um a lot of times you had composers that. would step in and conduct their own. orchestras uh Mozart certainly did. things like that um and these were as. orchestras were growing I mentioned that. you know the size of the orchestras.

being maybe as you know small chamber uh. groups and things like that as it got. bigger and bigger and you had you know. 30 40 50 people in an orchestra it. wouldn't do to have that violinist so. the composer themselves would lead the. orchestra and then like you said once. bee toin came along and brought his uh. really groundbreaking uh compositions. that they needed a conductor um a lot of. s it was still the the composer but then.

came the idea of someone that's didn't. compose it is not playing in it and that. the only job they have is to um direct. the orchestra yeah and there's a great. um story that seems to be true and. accurate that um when at the debut of um. Beethoven's Ninth Symphony um which is. the OD to Joy which was the part of. which is playing when they open the um. vault in Die Hard right that's what it's.

best known for I think um he wanted to. conduct it himself but he uh had fallen. death by then um well he was Beethoven. this was his ninth he'd already made a. name for himself even during his. lifetime so they let him but they they. had another conductor the real conductor. that the orchestra was instructed to. follow because Beethoven was not able to. keep on time and conduct the the. symphony correctly so um apparently when. the whole thing ended he was still. conduc and somebody had to tap him on.

the arm and be like turn around the. audience is applauding for you right now. yeah that is um that scene is captured. very uh very well in the Boogie Night. Boven movie Boogie Nights in Immortal. Beloved the the great movie about. Beethoven Gary Oldman oh yeah is it good. yeah it's good I haven't seen it in a. long time but I loved it back then um. and also I was able I was lucky enough. um I was so broke back when I was living. in New Jersey back in the 90s but how.

broke were you so broke that the only. way to get into Carnegie Hall not. practice uh to see boman's Ninth. Symphony performed by the New York. philarmonic was to uh hand out the um. now or lers no no the the not the. bulletin just the program for the. performance uh yeah like the play bill. um somehow got on that little volunteer. staff oh nice and they're like you can. hand out these play bills and then you. can stay and see the performance and so.

I got to see the o de Joy at the. Carnegie Hall and oh wow with a full. German choir and it was just like. unbelievable so you go hey what's that. guy doing waving his hands around I. did um back let's get serious though. Chuck okay uh we said that um Beethoven. was the reason why conducting became a. necessity because this the music he was. making was so complex that it required. way more people like you said and the. more people. playing the more you need a conductor.

and so um it was actually more about. just keeping tempo as it had been when. you had the violinist like waving their. bow or some dude smacking his foot on. the ground um even before then it was. about like actually interpreting the. music because the the more dense and um. uh expressive and sophisticated the. score the harder it is to to write out.

exactly what every single instrument is. supposed to be doing at every single. moment in exactly what way so there. there was a lot of interpretation left. and that role fell on the conductor and. here we finally reach what a. conductor really does this is like the. foundation the basis of their job is. interpreting the score and then getting. the the orchestra to produce the sounds. that meet that interpretation. yeah exactly um you know even even.

something written by Beethoven or Vagner. or something uh it can be pretty. detailed but like you said there's. there's no way to indicate every single. Nuance that comes through in an. orchestral performance by writing it. down on paper and that's where. interpretation can come from um in fact. I believe it was um uh heyen and Mozart. both um at times didn't uh indicate. tempo like super clearly for things and.

they had the expect expectation that hey. you know the musician should get in. there and understand the spirit of. what's happening and they will. instinctively kind of go to what the. right speed is so that's where. interpretation comes in um you certainly. not to you know change the actual notes. but there's so much more beyond the. actual notes that goes into a. performance right right um and there was. a a I guess um I think mer had a second. Sy.

where he noted that trombones violins. and violas should only play if necessary. to prevent the chorus from. deflating and I mean that who's going to. decide whether the chorus is deflating. or not the conductor so as that music. became more and more sophisticated the. the need for a conductor became greater. and greater and I say we take a break. and uh we'll rejoin the conducting. profession afterward in about the 19th. century great.

[Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Music]. all right so uh I guess we'll talk a. little bit about um how this happens. right right like what happens if you're.

a conductor and you're like uh here's. the the piece that you're going to play. for the Christmas concert in Atlanta. this December okay first thing you're. going to do as a conductor and really. want to recommend um this uh wired video. on YouTube it's an interview with a. conductor named Kent tritle uh TR tle uh. I can't remember exactly what the video. is but it's just a really good interview.

with an actual conductor kind of talking. about the job of conducting and uh Kent. points out that like kind of what you. wanted what you're trying to do when you. first get that piece and this is you. know you're not in a room with the with. the orchestra at this point you're on. your own it's like a a movie director or. a play director getting a script you. want to really just figure out the. architecture of the piece as a whole and. really dig. in Every Instrumental part like every. single one you have to know and.

understand where they come in where they. come out where it should be um uh a. Rising sound or falling sound and of. course there's great Italian names for. all this stuff whether it should be. Punchy or whether it should be flowy um. and and sort of notate just like you. would break down a movie script or. something or a play script right just. the the architecture and the feeling. that you're trying to convey and really. just take note of all that stuff yes so. I mean that's like the first step in.

putting on a Symphony concert like. that's what the the conductor has to do. is go through and figure out how they're. going to present it and then comes the. time where you have to teach um or work. with all of the musicians that are going. to perform this with you um to explain. this is how we're going to do it and. there's a couple of ways to do this and. one um was practiced by some of the most. well-known conductors of the 20th. century which is like the Golden Age of.

conductors um one was that you could be. a dictator and a jerk and um be what was. known as now kind of derogatorily as a. maestro um that was one way to do it. fortunately there seems to be a much. larger push these days toward U much. more communal. um I guess a nicer Kinder gentler way of. approaching it working together rather. than bossing around and that um that's.

kind of the way that composers seem to. do it apparently there's a lot of or. there's some old maestros still working. yeah um and that a lot of people are. waiting for them to die. apparently yeah I think the. collaborative approach in general in the. Arts can be a great way to go um. although all tour ship and films and um. I guess the Maestro uh. maess um uh you know some people made.

great work doing that stuff so it's not. to say that that can't work but it just. seems as a whole like the Arts have. become a little more collaborative sure. in the last 50 years 40 years yeah I. read a really good uh description of of. that um uh it was a blog post from the. symphony Nova Scotia um their uh. director of Music their league conductor. Holly mat wrote Maestro Maestra or Holly. um and it's about you know what which. one does she want to be called and she.

goes kind of into detail about you know. the history of those ill-tempered mean. dictatorial. Maestro um maestros I can't remember. what the plural would be I guess. mry I think it would no I mean that. sounds right all right I'm just gonna. keep with maestros um that that like how. that's changed and how it like you said. it's become much more collaborative over. time so uh it was definitely worth.

reading it gives a really clear picture. of you know just the couple of the. different approaches to the whole thing. yeah for sure um what is uh also can. kind of vary is how you know how flashy. they are and how much attention um they. might be trying to draw because uh if. you've ever seen a conductor who is. really getting down up there um they may. just be feeling that passion and just. getting into it they may have an ego. which is saying look at me look at me uh.

that certainly happens um but not always. sometimes they're uh you know everyone. has his own their own style sometimes. there's not much emotion um sometimes. you know you're they have their back to. the audience so the only time you're. going to see their faces and like a. televised performance or something like. that's what your Orchestra is seeing. right um but I do want to recommend. another video I hope you watch this one. it was. great um just look up candid dancing. conductor on YouTube and his conductor. named Joseph R uh olir witz I guess I am.

going with AER witz okay I'm going with. whatever he wants to be called because. this guy is a treasure and the the fun. and emotion that he has while he's. conducting is just infectious and I just. I want to like I want to hug this guy I. want to have him over for dinner yeah. and I saw that you know he's kind of. putting it on pretty thick because of he. knew that this was being filmed but it. does I've seen other stuff of his too. and he's you know a little more subdued.

but compared to other conductors he's. you know very expressive and yeah you. definitely want to hang out with him and. maybe give him a hug here or there just. because he seems like a great guy seems. like a good dude yeah so um that's I. mean that's what the public the the. concert going public who who don't. really know what's going on tend to. notice the most um but the the the. behind the scenes work that leads up to. that it again when you're interpreting a.

score you have to figure that out. yourself and then you start working with. the musicians you have to work with. every single musician to get the. absolute most out of them you have to. gain their trust um and if you can gain. their trust then you can actually get. them to play the way you want if they. don't trust you they're going to kind of. go around your back and collaborate. together without you kind of like me as. the lead singer of that band I was in in. high school right they were not. listening to me or following my lead and.

I saw a great quote about that um. there's a AMA on Reddit with a conductor. from 2018 and this conductor who I think. was at the Flagstaff Symphony at the. time okay um they said that when a bad. conductor makes a mistake no one notices. when a good conductor makes a mistake. it's a disaster and that's because the. symphony doesn't follow a bad conductor. so when he makes a mistake it doesn't. translate through to the symphony but a. good conductor if they make a mistake.

the symphony is actually following them. and so that mistake gets telegraphed. through the actual sound so that's a. huge part of it is gaining the trust and. the respect of your um of your Orchestra. and one of the ways that you do that is. working closely with them but also. knowing what you're talking about you. have to be a master not necessarily how. to play but in understanding how every. single instrument what what you can get. out of it and how to do that yeah. absolutely um. so you know backing up a little bit if.

you want to get this job the first thing. you have to do basically is get a a. degree in music um I I don't know that. that's a requirement as far as like a. standard or anything but I can't imagine. anyone rising to the level of you know. kind of prominent conductor that didn't. have a a degree in music so uh you have. your degree in music you are almost 100%. of the time uh a former player in an or. or chestra uh you can just you know be.

someone who can play an instrument and. decides right away you want to get in. into conducting so you you go to a Civic. group or a high school and you kind of. start and work your way up but chances. are you have played in an orchestra and. that you can play at least one uh. instrument um very very very well at a. very high level probably like orchestral. professional orchestra level right um. but chances are that conductor plays. more than one instrument um you know.

they can play a little violin a little. piano uh maybe even a little tuba every. now and then you never know oh well then. they've captured my heart but if you are. that conductor um usually like in a if. you're the conductor for like a city uh. and their and their their Symphony then. you were probably also the music. director so your job is not just like. all right I got to get this piece. together it's I have a full-time job of. running being the musical director. running this program working with the.

community um any sort of like uh kind of. stuff conductors probably don't love. doing as far as like uh oh you got you. got to go to dinner with these fun. funders and people who are raising money. like all the kind of stuff that goes. along with um just as you would if you. were if you ran a theater um and you. were directing plays like the directing. of the play is the least of your job at. times I'm sure yeah that's a really good. analogy too like imagine that you have. like a good um like a playhouse in your.

town yeah there's like one person who's. like running the playhouse and they're. probably also the lead director they're. the director um who has the highest. esteem among the directors probably. other directors that work for it too. same thing with a symphony or an opera. you have a a lead conductor who's. probably also the musical director so. that in addition to conducting. Symphonies they have to do all the other. stuff that you said too and then there's. assistant directors who might direct a a.

symphony and they help in other ways but. they don't have the responsibility. heaped on them that the music musical. director does as well I saw it down to. things like helping design and approve. those those programs that you were. handing out to get into con Hall yeah. they have their their hands and like. basically everything that's going on for. you know a particular Symphony that. they're they're working on they have. their fingers in every woodwind hole. Yeah. do probably have a.

name uh I think it's just holes oh great. yeah you nailed. it um let's talk about the Baton a. little bit because uh when I when I. asked Livia to help us with this article. I specifically said you know what's up. with the history of that thing and. what's it all about and it hopefully. comes as no surprise that the Baton is. is not some magical uh wand that a. magician might use it's just something. that's bigger and then you can see it. better and it's more wavy and it allows.

you to make bigger gestures um not all. conductors use the wand or the Baton um. but most of them do these days and I. think you generally kind of think of. that that baton being held in the hand. when you think of a conductor yeah. apparently you can thank Lou Spore the. German composer and conductor from the I. guess early 19th century for um adopting. the Baton first and it was a kind of a. cone shaped wooden Implement at first. and then I'm sure Louis Bor and people.

who followed were like I'm getting. carpel tunnel here can we use something. a little a little lighter a little. thinner and so the Baton kind of evolved. became longer a little pointier it used. to be made of wood or ebony today it's. much more likely be made of like like. carbon fiber or something like that yeah. Hightech stuff and I saw that they're. between about 10 to 26 Ines in length um. and what they're doing with that it's. like you said it emphasizes gestures and.

the reason why most conductors do use a. baton is because the size of Symphonies. today are so huge that people in the. back need to see your hands and what. they're doing a lot better um than they. would have if you had just like a 20. piece group that you know we all sitting. all close up on you yeah exactly um did. I get that across I want to make sure. because I can say it all over again I. think you got across okay uh again I.

want to recommend that Kent trial wired. video because over about 12 minutes an. actual conductor really breaks down what. they're doing with their hands and I'm. not going to just repeat what he said or. pretend to actually understand all of. that um but overall what's going on is. because U most people are right-handed. the right hand is generally the one with. the Baton and it's generally the. metronome it's the the timekeeper and. that is one of the biggest parts of the.

job still is keeping the time for. everyone to see uh and you have to. be really really really good at it you. got to have a great great sense of tempo. um you know a drummer probably obviously. is somebody who would be a little more. prone to be a good conductor I would. imagine um but it's it's very hard to do. because as Kent tridal explains um. keeping time per period is hard and when. he has students the the first lesson is.

literally just keeping a 60-second beat. so lowering your hand and stopping at. the bottom every second uh to a to a. click track or a metronome and he said. doing that is just hard enough but then. when you add you know 120 beats a minute. that's still kind of easy because it's. just double but what if it's. 132 141 what it's 73 um and you're in. this performance and your adrenaline is.

surging and somebody might mess up or do. something and that makes your takes you. out of your mindset and you have to like. throw out all that emotion and still be. able to keep that perfect beat with your. right hand for everyone to see yeah. because the point he was making was that. when when somebody does mess up or when. your adrenaline is surging time starts. to take different shape um than it does. like under normal circumstances when. everything is calm and you're just. rehearsing but but you have to be able.

to keep that sense of time no matter. what the. circumstance I just think that's amazing. yeah like a drummer in a rock band um. you know it's it's very common when you. perform like a show out that you play. all of your songs faster than you do in. a rehearsal because you're up there. you're Jazz and all of a sudden that. drummer behind you instead of one two. three four counting it out it's like one. two three four and you're the Ramones. right pretty great no the rins are great.

yeah but that that just that's just sort. of a thing and and uh it's kind of the. same thing you have to be able to block. all that out um you're keeping time with. that right hand and then your left hand. uh the other thing your right hand is is. doing is not just Tempo but uh entrance. like when you would wave for the strings. to come in um your left hand is. generally indicating the exit and then. everything else the emotion uh the flow. the the rising and falling whether or. not it's punchy and staccato or like uh.

really flowy so smooth is Billy D Smooth. As Billy D and while you're doing that. with that left hand and pointing at you. know uh the the brass section to stop um. you still have to be keeping that. perfect beat with the right hand so. again like a drummer you have to have. real independence of your left and right. hand yeah the left hand can't know what. the right hand's doing and vice versa. yeah um and that takes a lot of practice. too just not just keeping time but like.

making your hands do different things at. different time while also keeping Tempo. it is like like that's why there's just. a a really a handful of people running. around on the planet right now who are. qualified to conduct an orchestra. because of all the effort and training. and um understanding that it takes to do. that I mean I thought it was pretty neat. before but it was just so alien to me um. that I just kind of admired it out of.

its status in the the world of art High. art now that I understand it even more I. admire it even further I mean like just. what they do is. mindblowing yeah it's super cool um and. just to put a a little button real quick. because I know we'll probably get. letters uh you know the right hand is. keeping that beat and I said it's always. sort of doing that but the right hand. can take breaks from just that. metronomic uh rhythmic thing that you're. doing um because sometimes you'll see a. conductor using both hands kind of. mirroring one another but in opposite.

directions um that's when you know you. might be a big sweeping sort of motion. with both hands but then it'll go back. to kind of keeping that beat but there. are little breaks here and there with. that Tempo yeah the only thing is is if. you're giving your right hand a break. you don't want to shake the wrist out or. else it can really impact the. [Music]. score oh that's one thing I I said it. impacts the score the other thing about. the conductors they're the only person. in that whole Orchestra up there.

performing that has the entire score in. front of them all the other people are. playing the violin parts or the tuba. parts or the OBO or bassoon parts that's. what they have in front of them they. don't know at least not on paper what. the people around them are playing so. they have to rely on the conductor to. help to help them understand who's doing. what by watching the conductor at any. given moment yeah you know what I. couldn't find and I know someone will. know this uh cuz I know for sure or. we've had listeners that play in. orchestras but what actually do they.

have in front of them as like a. violinist um I know it's obviously the. violin part but is it just the violin. Pages or is it like really like a. Hustler magazine. right or or or they you know like you. can't just only have your thing you've. got to know kind of what else is going. on a little bit no cuz it seems like. that'd be like having only your lines in. a script um right I think that's why.

some conductors are dictators or can be. dictators because you are so reliant on. them and I think you figure it out. during practice and rehearsal like you. understand but I think what I saw they. have just their their part in front of. them so there's no uh you know spaces in. between that says like woodwind part or. anything like that I I don't know if it. says that but it wouldn't have the notes. the woodwinds are playing no no no.

that's what I'm saying I'm saying. anything to indicate where they are in. the piece that's not only in their. section I see okay framework I have no. idea I can make up an answer if you. want please do uh no they don't have any. frame of reference no we'll we'll hear. from someone and we'll follow up on that. um I say we take another break I'm two. for two for calling the breaks today. nice work uh and then we'll come back. and we'll talk about a well we'll we'll. answer a question question okay I'm not. even going to say what the question is.

yet I think they. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. [Music]. know all right so here's the question do. you really need a conductor to perform a.

symphony as an. orchestra well do you huh yeah great. question uh because you know when you. see that kind of Showmanship up there. and you might think I mean for me. personally I'm I'm there for that like I. want to see my conductor just going off. and I want to see hair flying around and. I want to see somebody really getting. into it other might people people might. be turned off by that uh we should.

mention that tridal and others confirm. that like hey that's that's part of it. but you can't let like let that get in. the way of things um but all that sort. of leads to what you're saying is like. do we even need these people up there uh. and there have been efforts to find that. out right yeah um there's a very famous. conductor named Andre prevan um who I've. even heard of uh he is or was I'm not. sure when he stopped he was definitely. performing up until if he's not still. but he was the conductor of the London.

Symphony Orchestra when a TV documentary. back in 1973 was made it was called who. needs a conductor yeah and he started. out um um conducting the London Symphony. Orchestra with Beethoven's. Fifth right yeah they get started and. going and he's conducting him and then. all of a sudden he just stops and exits. the stage and the the orchestra just. keeps going without literally without. missing a beat and they perform. Beethoven's Fifth Symphony for the rest. of the the time without any incident or.

hardship um and that does kind of lead. to the question like could you could you. just do away with conductors the answer. seems to be to an extent but you really. wouldn't want the results as like a. concert going public and really no the. answer is kind of no you don't want to. do away with conductors yeah and I think. a lot of it has to do with everything we. talked about that has everything to do. with um. anything other than just standing there. and waving your arms like all the.

preparation leading the rehearsal being. the the director of the performance um. and Livia points out that you know it. that that singular sort of uh vision for. how you're going to do the piece if you. don't have that then it's not saying. that people um will all just be doing. their own thing and it would be garbage. but getting getting everyone on the same. page eventually which is where you would. have to get to to to perform it in front. of people I would think that would just.

be a nightmare trying to get that many. people on the same page as far as that. interpretation goes right I mean think. about it if you've got a a beef between. your tuba player and your bassum player. and everybody is is is talking about how. you know how this one part's going to be. played and they're disagreeing who's. going to win out right that's where the. conductor comes in the conductor says. I'm winning out both of you shut up shut. up and they sit down and shut up and do. what the conductor tells them to yeah.

tuba would win though because the old. saying in the uh in the symphony don't. with the tuba. player it's true a goodbye sixth grade. classes right so should we mention a few. uh you mentioned Andre prevan of course. should we go over a few of these other. famous conductors yeah let's start with. tuscanini yeah you mean Arturo. tuscanini very nice that is ex a. spitting image impression of how.

tuscanini. talked so tuscanini was obviously. Italian uh directed the uh the Met Opera. in New York and tuscanini sort of um. spanned a couple of time periods um. Bridging the 19th and 20th centuries and. was a child prodigy and kind of one. thing he was known for was his. photographic memory um such that his. eyesight failed later in his career and. he still could conduct because he had. these um orchestral pieces you know just.

committed to his memory yeah and. apparently he was one of the ones who. started to form this image of like the. temperamental dictatorial um uh. conductor right yeah but I also read. that he was very well known for working. very closely with musicians to help get. things you know hammered out like he was. a a dedicated um leader I guess so he he. you know he was a very complex and. complicated person and he helped kind of.

lay the groundwork for what the general. public understood as the Maestro and. what was acceptable some of which is. kind of unacceptable um right but he. overall seems to have been a generally. at the very least a great conductor if. not a you know so so person but you know. who isn't yeah well you know it's a. position of power and have you seen the. movie tar I no I don't know what you're. talking about uh it's a uh uh oh god. ishar um.

no no oh God Immortal Beloved no people. are screaming at me at me right now it's. uh it's a movie about a uh a woman who. is a conductor uh made by Todd Fields. one of the few movies he's directed oh. Kate Blanchett of course oh you're. talking about. Tron oh man you just you're you're on a. roll today. huh uh no this was out a couple of years. ago I feel like no I haven't heard of it.

yeah 2022. T um and it's a movie about a a woman. Lydia tar who is a conductor and kind of. like uh a little bit of the the how. power can go wrong um in that position. and it just seems like it is one of. those positions where um you know. hopefully you you use your power wisely. but um like you mentioned with these. temper tantrum and dict dictatorial sort. of methods uh it's definitely a position.

that can historically get out of hand oh. and tuscanini also is well known for as. as a philanderer too and I think that. that was a big deal during the 20th. century for some of those Maestro uh. conductors they were. um Playboys to say the least for sure. and they did and they found some of. their conquests from their Orchestra and. yeah I mean today we look back we're. like yes that's an abuse of power you're. abusing your power because you're in. such a powerful position these people. are looking up to you and you're. leveraging that to sleep with them so.

that's like one of the big criticisms. that 20th century Maestro um have. leveled at them and then they say like. hey we were all like Boomers and Boomers. parents this is what we. did well tar kind of touches on that. stuff so I think you'd like it you and. Yumi should watch it oh I like cap. Blanchett any day she's great um uh I'll. mention Leonard Bernstein another famous. conductor yeah he's great too gentleman. from Massachusetts from Lawrence Mass.

and was the first American conductor and. musical director of the New York. philarmonic from 58 to 69 and really. just sort of um brought classical music. to a really big audience and one thing. we haven't talked about is just the. impact that um the recording industry. and recording orchestras uh did not only. for just making uh classical music and. orchestral music more popular and. bringing it to the masses but making. some of these conductors stars because.

the record you got wasn't just. Beethoven's nth it was you know Leonard. Bernstein and the New York philarmonic. to Beethoven's night yeah pretty cool we. also we can't not mention vanon Carion. Herbert von Caron he was one of those um. bad boy maestros but he was also well. known as being like one of the greatest. that's ever lived too like that's the. other thing too that's why these guys. got away with this is because they were. so good at what they did um they were.

just looked up to in so many ways it. just excused all this other behavior and. there like being a Nazi there yeah. that's one thing I'm glad you brought. that up Carion was a literal Nazi he was. born in Austria he was a member of the. Nazi party and uh he's like we're just. going to leave that behind in the past. let's not talk about that anymore yeah. he was to be fair he was cleared by an. Allied tribunal but that sort of. followed him through his career for sure. it does even though it didn't seem to. hurt it that much no the on the other.

side of the um aisle is Carlos cber. whose father Eric cber was also a. conductor and they left Germany because. of the Nazis because they were like. Nazis suck so they moved to Argentina. and Carlos cber developed his craft. there and became a very well-known um. not just conductor but recluse and Kion. said that um cber only conducts when the. fridge is empty like he just for the. last like 10 or 20 years of his his life. he just he did not want to conduct he. conducted only what he wanted to and he.

only did it when he absolutely had to. basically yeah uh I want to shout out uh. yo Levy who uh this was the um musical. director at the Atlanta Symphony. Orchestra uh starting in 1988 for about. 12 years and I just remember it was a. very big deal Yol Levy really kind of. vaulted Atlanta Symphony into a world. class. organization and um really put him on. the map uh as far as uh you know it was.

Atlanta and it was the late 80s and so I. think there was this idea of like you. know the sort of the the third area. Podunk Symphony yeah um and he he really. really changed that in Atlanta is a. world- class Symphony um now uh being. directed uh musical director and Lead. conductor um by Natalie uh schutzman who. is the first woman to be musical. director here in Atlanta and it's a good. time to talk about women because we. probably said he quite a bit uh the. history of conducting is just rif with.

white European men in general uh I think. 11% of um musical directors were women. this is in a. 2023 um report and you know that's. that's changing more and more there have. been women here and there uh cap. lanchette certainly one of them but uh. we got one here in Atlanta with Natalie. schutzman that's neat um she's French. yeah the there was a woman um conductor. who was back in the early 20th century.

Antonia Rico she was like the first one. but I read that like after the first. decade or so um of her like the novelty. kind of wore off and she had trouble. finding work so she's like fine I'll. just found my own Symphony and she did. in Denver and she kept that position for. decades until her death in I think 1989. but she really opened the door for. female conductors to come yeah. absolutely and and we're talking about a. lot of Americans too um you know.

considering where uh classical music. came from not surprising that Europeans. are mainly conductors uh but they've. also pointed out that like you know. they're they don't they don't do it well. here in America as far as having a real. system in place right to get great young. assistant uh conductors and things like. that a real Pathway to Leading like a. major um Orchestra in the United States. and that's something that they're I. think trying to work on and get better. at yeah which would be a big deal.

because among conductors and musical. directors it's mostly white European men. um if you look at assistant directors. it's much more diverse so if you can. start figuring out how to promote Talent. from there then yeah you'd have the. whole field would be a lot more diverse. which is great anytime you had diversity. things expand yeah and and you're you're. right when you look at the ranks of. assistants and then even. um on Down the Line because there are. many many people that put it together um.

more and more people of color getting. involved um I think only four the the 25. largest ensembles in the United States. 21 of the 25 are uh European still so. still a lot of work to do. yeah uh oh one more person I want to. shout out is Simon Rattle uh he's with. the Berlin philarmonic which is. typically either the first first or. second best um Symphony in in the world.

depending on who is rating it at the. time I also saw Cleveland very. frequently falls into the top five to. 10 nice Cleveland rocks yeah exactly um. but Simon rle I think is kind of uh. emblematic of the way that conductors. are going these days he started. instituting um free lunchtime concerts. um educational programs for underserved. communities streaming stuff online um. he's doing more 20th century composers.

not just people who have been dead for a. couple hundred years yeah so he's really. like it's just it's expanding I think. it's always good when things expand. because it's not like they're going to. just abandon all the traditional stuff. you can't why would you but that doesn't. mean you can't also incorporate new. stuff too why do you have to go see the. same thing year after. year Casual Friday flipflop. Wednesday that's right of stff Taco. Tuesday yeah that's perfect man I want. to be in that orch yeah for sure uh well.

if you want to know more about. conductors just go online and start. watching some videos of them it's pretty. fun and you'll hear some pretty good. music too you might even hear something. you heard in Die Hard and since I said. that it's time for listener. [Music]. mail uh I'm going to call this hey let's. get into the weeds with quartz vibration. no no I saw this one there were a couple. of these cuz there are some people out. there that know a lot more about this. than we do thankfully hey guys been a. consistent listener for about 10 years. your Enlightenment and witty banter has.

seen me through many good times and bad. I'm a computer design engineer and. listened to the atomic clock episode. yesterday want to clarify what seems to. be a misunderstanding about the resonant. frequency of quarts uh you commented. that quartz repeatedly uh vibrates at. 32,768 Hertz uh when energize which is. often the case in many time pieces but. quartz does not inherently vibrate at. 32. 768. khz uh yeah that was just different than.

the Hertz okay sorry yeah uh they uh. there would have to be some sort of. divine miracle for qus to vibrate at. 32,768 Herz which just happens to be a. very computer friendly number for a Time. piece uh as you know almost all. computers are designed to work based on. ones and zeros and those binary numbers. are stored as a vector of binary digits. bits hey so they tend to support a. number. range um a number range up to some value.

that's a power of. 2.32. 768 just happens to be 2 to the^ 15. which means. 32,768 is the upper limit represented by. a 15 bit uh digit oh wow by a 15 bit. number in a computer that can count the. ticks in a digital watch before. incrementing the seconds woo now I know. how other people feel when I try to. explain something uh Scott finishes up. by saying quartz crystal will naturally.

have a variable resonant frequency. depending on its size though it could be. 32.768 khz or 2 MHz or 200 MHz depending. on its size the mass produce 32.768 khz. Crystal commonly used in time pieces was. specifically grown and Laser trimmed to. the exact size and shape to make a. computer and time piece. friendly I actually finally understand. that is excellent Scott he says come see. us in San Jose California sometime yeah.

nice Scott thank you very much I'm going. to have to go back and reread that one. so I can absorb it fully sure you will I. will okay fine uh if you want to be like. Scott and explain something to us in. depth we love that kind of thing it just. might take us reading it a couple of. times uh you can send that email to. stuff podcast iheartradio.com. [Music]. stuff you should know is a production of.

iHeart radio for more podcasts iHeart. Radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.