Chinese Food: Best Food? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And it's. just us, but that's okay because we can. keep all the Chinese food to oursel. We. don't have to share with Jerry. And this. is stuff you should know. That's right. Uh, a lot of caveats on this. Can I list. off a few? Sure. All right. First of.

all, this is going to be a a very broad. overview of a cuisine that we could. probably do like a 10-p part at least. episode series on. I would say 11. Yeah, maybe 11. So, just, you know, have your. expectations set going into this one. when you talk about Chinese food. There's a lot there. Um, we are going to. do our best to pronounce things. correctly. I looked up a lot of stuff. and I'm doing my best, but some of this. stuff is hard for my my dumb American. mouth. Mhm. Um, and a lot of this is.

going to be I mean it's mainly about. sort of, you know, Chinese food, although we're going to talk about. origins and stuff like that, origin. stories. It's mainly like what Chinese. food has become here in the States, although we'll talk a little bit about. other countries later. Uh, but it's. through our lens. Yeah, there you go. Um, that was that was great. Caveat City. right there. Caveat City. David Bowie, great song. So, you said something that. we were going to largely focus on. American Chinese cuisine. Uh, and Laura.

helped us with this and she makes a. really good point. The Chinese food is. not just one thing. Yeah. And the reason. why it's not just one thing or one of. the reasons why is because it's been. exported all over the globe. anywhere. that Chinese people traveled, usually. for work to immigrate, um they uh. brought their food with them and. introduced it to wherever they were. And. then over time, the local flavors and. tastes and ingredients from that place. melded with the Chinese food and a new. type of Chinese food was born. And.

America is no exception to that. So, we. have American Chinese food. Yeah. Uh, and do you know what I love about that. this whole story is like everywhere. Chinese people went, they were like, "Get a load of this." Yeah. And everyone. was like, "Oh my god, that's amazing.". Yeah. And it took Yeah. Big time. Uh, I. mean, I'd have I have no examples of. places where Chinese immigrants have. brought their food and people are like, "Nah, no thanks." Right. The only one I. could find was Bise. Oh, I know you're.

kidding. I'm not going to fall for it. Uh, and the reason why is because I mean. I I I can live on many many many uh. cuisines from Asia. I love Japanese. food. I love Thai. I love Vietnamese. I. love Filipino. I like Korean food. I. love it all. But I at the end of the. day, good oldfashioned like Chinese. takeout is just one of my favorite. all-time things since I was a kid. Very. nice. Yeah, that's what I grew up on, too. It wasn't until I was an adult that.

I was like, there's other kinds of Asian. food out there. Yeah. Cuz that's kind of. what you and if you grew up in the 70s. and ' 80s, that was sort of the first, you know, probably one of the first um, you know, cuisines from another country. you ever ate. Yeah, for sure. You know, maybe Mexican food wasn't that big back. then. That's only become more popular, I. think, in the 80s and 90s even. Uh, even. still, uh, as a kid, the Mexican food I. was exposed to was chi-chi for God's. sake, or Del Taco. We didn't even have.

that. That was exactly. But I think maybe even before Chinese. food, I was exposed to Japanese habachi. because there was this nice restaurant. in Toledo called Japanese. Yeah. And we. would go to that. And I think I might. have had that before Chinese food. But. regardless, um, I love Chinese food, too. I I would say my top two are. Japanese followed by Indian, but Chinese. is definitely up there in top five or. so. Yeah. I mean, I'm a simple guy. Like. pork fried rice and an egg roll. And I'm. just now realizing we're not even going.

to talk about egg rolls in this. And I'm. panicking all of a sudden. Yeah, that. didn't strike me until you just said. that, too. And although my voice doesn't. um betray that, I'm definitely scared. right now as well. All right. You know, hey, let's do let's do a shorty on egg. rolls. Maybe we'll pair it with this. Good idea. All right. So, we said that. Chinese food is not just one thing. because it's been exported globally, but. even in China, Chinese food is not just. one thing. And they divide Chinese. cuisine into eight different regions.

Why don't you tell them what the regions. are, Chuck? Uh, I'm just realizing I didn't. look up a couple of these, so maybe you. did. But, uh, the regions as agreed upon. right now are, uh, and they have. different names for each one. And so the. first grouping is uh Sichuan. Sichuan. or I didn't look up c hua n. I mean. you're braver than me. I was just going. to say the first ones that are they're. mostly known by in the US. Oh, we can do. that then. That's much easier. So let's.

go with Sichuan Cantonese. Um Hunan, which is also Jeang. Um let me see here. We have Shangdong. We have Jong Su. Uh, we have uh Oh, I Oh, I did look that one. up. Uh, Jang, very nice. Uh, Fugjian. I've always heard Fujian, but that. sounds kind of like an American version. Well, I heard it pronounced as if it had. a Y in there almost like f. Okay. Uh, f Fian. Okay. And then what's.

the last one there? Uh, onway. Yes. And. some people added at least a ninth one. with Shan Gi. Um, and they're all a. little different. They're they bear a. lot of similarities. A lot of them love. sweet and sour. A lot of them are heavy. on the salt or umami. Some like sauces. But one of the big differences or some. of the big differences is like where. this this area is located. Some of them. are coastal, so they incorporate a lot. of seafood. Some of them are colder, so.

there's like a lot of soups and heavy. noodles and like really really heavy. flavors. And then others are like, "Hey, we love prancing around the wilderness. and catching deer." So they incorporate. like local um wildlife into it. And. usually what I've seen is when they when. there's um a lot of wildlife involved or. game involved in the the recipes, they. tend to let that flavor stand on its. own. It's not like heavy with sauces. That kind of cuisine, is it? Yeah. And.

they um how they achieve spice is kind. of different depending where you are, too. Sometimes it's those numbing. Chinese peppercorns. You can't do those. No. Yeah. I I've. learned to eat a lot of spicy food over. the last like five or six years and. increase my spice level, but there's. something about the numbing pepperc corn. that it's I have a hard time with it. Yeah, I think that's natural. It's. tough, but I can, you know, it depends. on the cuisine. Other sort like the. chilies that they use, I can I can. handle that pretty well. It's hot, but I.

I like it. And sometimes it's just the. chili flakes. Yeah. The the little red chilies that. they'll sometimes serve whole with the. dish. Yes, I can handle those too for. sure. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah. And what I. mean by handling those uh little red. chili peppers is that I eat around them. Same here. So, the the cuisine that most people in. the United States are familiar with is. Cantonese. Um that's definitely like the. the first kind of Chinese food that.

Americans adopted. And that has a lot to. do with um the first wave of migrants. that came over to the United States. A. lot of them were from Canton. And as a. matter of fact, the first Chinese. restaurant to open in all of North. America. I'm including Canada and Mexico. here. Was called Canton and it was in. San Francisco. That's right. Uh I mean, if you've ever had dim sum, that's. Cantonese. Uh if you've never had dim. sum, I highly recommend it. It's I I.

hate to say like cuz it used to annoy me. when a certain person I knew used to say. like tortillas are like American bread. and I was like no they're just. tortillas. Who said that? I'm not going. to tell you. Oh, I'll tell you offline. Uh but I was going to say like if you've. ever had tapus, dim sum is kind of like. the Chinese version of tapus. Um but it. really is just dim sum. But it's like. shared small plates. Uh a lot of steamed. stuff but also fried stuff, baked stuff. A lot of lot of dumplings, right? A lot.

of dumplings. Um, you know, just go to. New York, go to Hopky, get some dim sum, and thank me later. Okay. It's amazing. I will thank you later. I've never. really had dim sum, actually, now that I. think about it. Oo boy. Uh, I mean, I. like all kinds of food in Chinatown and. New York, but um, dim sum is definitely. one of them, but I'll also go to just. the, you know, cuz if you're staying in. hotel, you can't get these huge orders. and just like take tons and tons of food. with you, right? So, my move now is.

generally just to pop down there by. myself and get a couple of gigantic egg. rolls. You and the egg rolls, huh? Wait, wait, we can't talk about that. We have. to save it for short stuff. Forget I. even said that. But you did mention San. Francisco in 1849 was the first uh. operating restaurant um in North. America. And by 1851 when the population. of San Francisco was but 34,000 and. change, there were seven uh full-time. Chinese restaurants open, which you. know, for that few people is is pretty.

good for that time period. Yeah, that's. not bad. Like people liked it clearly. Yeah. Um and there's a a book that is. going to come up or we're going to draw. from a lot in this uh episode. It's. called From Canton Restaurant to Panda. Express, a history of Chinese food in. the United States by Haing Lao. And Lao. makes this um this point that a lot of. like we tend to equate um Chinese. migrants in the 19th century, especially. to California, with like railroad.

workers, maybe miners. We have like a. certain idea of what the Chinese. migrants were at the time. And that is a. I mean, it's pretty stereotypical. It's. also pretty narrow. There were a lot of. Chinese migrants who made their way over. just to feed the people in the gold rush. of 1849 in California. They were like, "People are going to need food and we're. going to knock their socks off with. Chinese food." And so they started to to. go and open Chinese restaurants. And. apparently you could pick out a Chinese. restaurant pretty easily because they.

hung yellow flags outside. Yeah. And. this is also sort of the uh kind of. right away when when racist uh feelings. toward Chinese immigrants started, racist feelings toward their food even. started arising right out of the gate. Uh in Lao's book, there were some a. couple of examples that uh she cited. Uh, one was a criminal lawyer defending. a white client following a race riot in. 1865 and told the judge uh, why sir, and. I'm not going to say the racist Chinese.

name, but they live on rice and sir, they eat it with sticks. Uh, and then. there was a a pamphlet from uh, American. Federation of Labor President Samuel. Gumpers in 1902 titled Some Reasons for. Chinese Exclusion: Meat versus Rice, American Manhood versus Aiatic Coulism. Uh, and apparently kulie is a porative. term for a low-wage worker, right? So, it's all happening early on. Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting. because, and we'll talk about. immigration and racism, but those two.

things definitely shaped Chinese food in. America in some surprising ways, as a. matter of fact. Yeah, for sure. So, it. turns out that the oldest continuously. operating Chinese restaurant in the. United States is Pein without a G Noodle. Parlor. And where else? But Montana, right? And uh it started out as a. general store back in 1909, but within. two years they added a noodle parlor, the very same noodle noodle parlor. that's still open today. And I guess at.

some point they um ran an illegal. gambling parlor out of the basement, but. that has since been turned into an Old. Navy. Is that true? No. Because that I could. believe actually. Yeah, me too. Uh if you if you you know I looked up. that place to see what it looked like. and it looks like a you know a Chinese. restaurant in and a building of an old. west town. Man what you might think and. there's a big neon sign that says. chopsie and I realized that chopsui is.

not a dish I've ever had but chopsui is. sort of the the beginning of of Chinese. food in America. That's the dish that. first sort of captured young America's. attention and uh there's some debates on. whether or not it it's even American in. origin and we're going to talk about. chopsi right now. Yeah. I don't know if. I've ever had it either, but I think. anytime you've ever made like a vague. Chinese stir fry with chicken and. vegetables and maybe like a some sort of.

thickish sauce, you basically made. chopped seawe. Some people say that you. can make it with egg, but those people. are wrong. For the most part, it's a mixture of. meat, vegetables, a thick sauce, usually. with rice. And the name itself, not only. where it originated, but the name itself. is um is debatable what it means. I. remember I think I might have learned. this from Uncle John's bathroom reader. that it meant leftovers in Chinese. So. that people from China coming to America.

would see Chopsui House and they would. think it it would say like leftovers. house to them. That's not exactly true, but it's not that far off. No, that's. pretty close actually because uh some. people say the name came from a. Cantonese. uh tsap uh tapsui uh s ui instead of su. ei that seems to be an Americanized. spelling. Mhm. Uh which is mixed bits or. odds and ends aka probably leftovers. Yeah. Lea, the author of the book, said. that um it probably comes from Chowo.

Chopsui or Chowo Chopsui, which some. people call it, um probably comes from. the. Cantonese pronouncing a Mandarin Chowo. Zazui and Chiao meaning stirfry and. zazooi meaning animal intestines. I tend. to go with the sapsule. Yeah, that I mean that's just my take. and it's almost meaningless, but that's. what I'm going to go with since it's up. for debate. I'm with you. I'll be in your camp. Okay, thanks. At least we can hang out. and play cards. What do you want to.

play? Uh, I don't know a lot of card. games. I like Jin Rummy. I was going to. say Jin Rummy, too. I do love spades, but we need uh Emily and Yumi to come. along. Okay, that's fair enough. Uh, they probably will anyway if we end up. in a camp together. That's cuz that means a zombie. apocalypse has happened. Yeah. Or else. the Russians have invaded all um Red. Dawn and you and I are alone in a men's. camp which is really just a fenced off. drive-in. Yeah. Soon soon to die. Yeah.

Anyway, that's a weird sidetrack. Uh a. quote that and we're going to explain. the origins of this quote, but you may. have heard that chopsie is an American. is as American as pork and beans. And. that actually comes from a lawsuit uh. from the early 1900s. In 1904, a guy. named Lem Sin said, "You know what? I. invented Chopsui. Uh, I made it for a. Chinese diplomat who visited in 1886, and everybody making this dish owes me. money." Yeah, it's kind of a a bold.

lawuit. Sure. I don't even know who he. sued. I couldn't find it. Everybody, I. guess so. Lemnen versus all chop sooie. chefs. Yeah, exactly. So, um, he ended up dropping the suit, but the suit left a huge, um, mark on. America. I mean, like it was reported on. it. It it made the news for sure and. people knew about it. And one reason why. it became such a big deal is because at.

the time, as we saw, there was the. Chinese Exclusion Act. So, Lemen brought. his um, lawsuit in 1904. The Chinese. Exclusion Act was passed in 1882. It was. the first time the United States had. ever passed an immigration law. specifically targeted at one. nationality. And it also basically laid. the foundation for exclusionary. immigration laws and much tighter. immigration laws than we'd had before. that we still have today. But this was. super tight. I read when they loosened.

it up the quota for Chinese immigrants. was 104 Chinese immigrants per year. Yeah. Really? Wow. Yeah. And everybody. was racist and against Chinese at the. time, right? So yeah, but people also. love chopsie by then. I mean, love. chopsie. So Lemson's lawsuit said, "Hey, you can keep loving chopsie. I invented. this in America. It's really an American. dish. So you can continue being racist. against Chinese immigrants while still. loving chopsie. You're welcome,

America." And America said, "Thank you. Get out." Yeah. And he's the one who had. the quote. It's as as an American as. pork and beans. Yeah. And the lawsuit, I. think he said it, too. I couldn't find. that quote. I couldn't find the lawsuit, but even if it's not specifically in the. lawsuit, it definitely seems to have. developed out of that. Yeah. But it's. possible that it was uh Chinese in. origin initially because apparently uh. there are some dishes from the Pearl. River Delta that are pretty similar and.

some of the earliest Chinese uh migrants. to the US were from that area. I can't. parse out what's so different from. chopsi than any stir fry. I I I don't. know either. There's a lot of overlap. between Chinese dishes, including. authentic cuisine. Yeah. But especially. American Chinese. I think I think it was. it was one of the first. It was almost. like an umbrella term for all Chinese. dishes in America at the turn of the. last century. Kind of like smurf but. with Chinese food essentially. Um, and I.

think because it was the first, a lot of. dishes that we recognize as like. American Chinese developed out of it. Okay, that makes sense. Uh, I do know. that when I was a kid going camping, um, growing up in Georgia, I loved nothing. more than taking a can of lechoy. Really? Uh, you know, it's like veggies. and and sauce basically, just sipping on. it the whole weekend. Lot of water just. Yeah. put it in my canteen. Uh, and you. know, making some some campfire rice and.

dumping that stuff on top, you know, heating it up and dumping it on top. I. thought it was like the peak of, you. know, fine cuisine in the woods. Yeah. No, I mean, that's definitely better. than, you know, a human finger that you. found. Yeah. But they were Loy was. around since the 1930s doing that, you. know, canned vegetable sauce. Uh, I was. going to say trick, but, you know, it's. it's a thing. Yeah. But I mean that's a. great explanation of just how crazy. people were in America for chopsooi that. Lchoy could package and sell for decades.

this stuff and people were nuts for it. Um another sign apparently was that by. the turn of the last century chopsie. houses were so popular they'd started to. migrate out of Chinatown. Yeah. Um which. was a huge deal in I should say in. Manhattan specifically. That was a big. deal because I think there were a lot of. people who were like, I love Chopsui, but I don't want to go to Chinatown. And. these Chinese entrepreneurs said, hey, you don't need to anymore. Here we are. at I don't know um Soho,

right? Uh another like pretty startling. um factoid is that uh it was in well. this this part isn't. It was in the 1942. edition of the US Army cookbook. But as. a result, when US troops were stationed. overseas in China and Japan in World War. II, restaurants would put chop sooie on. the menu to cater to those American. soldiers because they came in. We're. like, "Where's the chopsie?" Yeah. We. want a hot dog, a hamburger, and chop.

sooie. Exactly. Um, you want to take a. break? We're at like 20 minutes. basically. Yeah. I'm going to go ahead. and put in my order for pork fried rice. and egg roll. I'm definitely getting. Chinese food for dinner. Yeah. Learning stuff is fun with Josh and. Shark. You should know. [Music].

[Music]. All right, Chuck. So, we're back. Um, and we talked about how immigration laws. and um, racism against Chinese. migrants helped shape Chinese food in. America. And one of the first ways that. it did was um, that that 1882 Chinese. Exclusion Act actually led to a plethora. of much more upscale Chinese.

restaurants. And the reason why is. because part of that um exclusion act is. that um certain kinds of. businesses could achieve merchant status. or the owners of c certain kind of. businesses. They had to be legitimate. businesses that were considered kind of. higherend and that if you had merchant. status you could sponsor relatives to. come to the United States. And I guess. in 1915 a court case got Chinese. restaurants added to that merchant.

status clause. Yeah. And this uh came. from a historian named Heather Lee. And. she makes a case it's like you know this. this addition to that list uh basically. meant you were going to get a lot of. like higher grade chopsie palaces. So, the restaurants kind of got nicer and. you had to in order to qualify, you also. uh if you were an investor or an owner, you had to spend a year managing the. restaurant as the manager and not like, you know, working in the kitchen or. something like that. And you've needed,

of course, this had to be thrown in. there. You needed two white witnesses to. vouch for them. Uh but because of these. strict rules, you got again these these. nicer Chinese restaurants opening up. that were qualifying for that merchant. status. And then you would get investors. getting together and saying, "Hey, let's. start this restaurant. We'll take turns. uh running it for a year and get our. family members over here." Uh, and as a. result, I mean, this is not the only. reason, but this definitely helped. Um, Chinese restaurants in the US doubled.

between 1910 and 1920 and again between. 1920 and 1930. And by 1930, they had. overtaken as the largest employers of. Chinese workers in the United States. Yeah. So, so the first like third of the. 20th century, there was a boom in. Chinese restaurants and in in. specifically higherend Chinese. restaurants. Mhm. And then uh another. boom happened after the immigration and. nationality act of 1965 which greatly.

loosened restrictions on immigration. particularly from China. And within a. decade of that act, the Chinese American. population basically doubled, which. sounds eyepopping, but don't forget. there was only like 104 people coming in. a year. So it went from like, I don't. know, 3,000 to 6,000 in a decade. It was. more than that. Yeah, it definitely was. But the point is is that now you had way. more patrons of authentic Chinese. restaurants, which meant there were more. authentic Chinese restaurants. And then.

you also had more people who were ready. to open and staff more Chinese. restaurants. So you had a huge boom in. Chinese restaurants um again in the 60s. to the to the 70s. Yeah, for sure. Uh. and there was a an article in 2014 in. the New Yorker by Lauren Hilgars and. this was 11 years ago, but I imagine. it's not, you know, completely different. now. But how the labor arrangements uh. worked then and probably these days is. uh if there's a Chinese restaurant in.

the US, there's more than 40,000 back. then and and there's probably a few more. now, but that's a lot of restaurants. Mhm. Generally run by families, but. staffed by new immigrants. A lot of them. are undocumented. A lot of them. apparently are coming from the uh. Fugjian province and they're providing. the labor. So, uh, what'll happen is. they'll they'll have a restaurant. Um, a. new immigrant will come to town, probably a hub city. I think they. concentrated on New York, San Francisco, and Chicago for the article, but any.

major, you know, city on in the US. probably. Uh, and they'll go to a a. Chinese language employment agency and. they'll say, "All right, I got a job for. you." They'll say this in Chinese, though. Um, go get on this bus. Here's. the person's name. Here's their phone. number. go to this restaurant and you. can probably get a job there. And that's. how they staff their restaurants. Yeah. And Chuck, you mentioned that at least. in. 2014,000 Chinese restaurants in the. United States. Yeah. Which is impressive. in and of itself. But if you compare it.

to McDonald's, which is, you know, the. benchmark comparison for us. Yeah. Um, there are. 13,622 McDonald's in the United States. versus. 40,000 Chinese restaurants. There's. probably Well, there's not because we. know that number, too. I was going to. say there's probably 14,000 Panda. Expresses, but we'll get to that later. Yeah, it's close. The the long and short. of it is is was with how the staffing. arrangement works is these cooks are. moving around a lot. They'll sometimes. work at a place for just a few months.

and go to a different restaurant maybe. for better pay. Uh oftentimes outside of. city centers you can get paid more. Uh. which sort of surprised me. I guess it. makes sense though. But um if you're. getting Chinese food for years and years. from the same place, uh a lot of times. there will be a different cook every few. months and hopefully you won't even. notice. Um yeah, a lot of the the reason you. won't notice is because these the. immigrants from Fujian um I I could not. find out why the largest waves of.

migration lately have been coming from. Fujian, but they are. Um but they are. coming and buying Cantonese, formerly. Cantonese owned restaurants from the. Cantonese owners who founded them, and. they're just keeping the menu the same. because again, this is American Chinese. Neither one's making the cuisine. necessarily that you would find in their. provinces. In China, they're making the. American version. So, if you have a set. menu, you're probably any chef's going. to be able to cook this stuff, I think.

Yeah. Um, now we're going to talk a. little bit about general. So, uh, another classic Chinese dish that I've. never had. Oh, really? No, I've never. had it. I mean, maybe I've had it if. someone I was somewhere and they ordered. just a ton of food and I was kind of. just dumping all of it on the plate, which is the best way to eat Chinese. food. Yeah. But that's something I've. never ordered myself. I kind of just. stick to my main order and general sauce. chicken is not it. Uh, it's good. It's a.

Swedish sour. No, it's not even sour. It's like sweet and savory. It's kind of. spicy, too, isn't it? A little bit, but. nothing anybody couldn't handle. I think. there's usually sesame seeds on it, too. It's good stuff. Yeah. Not like Kungpow. is the real spicy one, right? Yeah. And. we all know who likes his Kungpow spicy. There's a funny Judge John Hodgejman. episode about that, too. Uh there's a a. funny dad, or at least he thought it was. funny, and his kids were trying to get.

him to stop making the same joke over. and over. Uh, wherever this guy goes, um, it could be like a toll booth worker. will ask like what kind of ticket he. wants and he'll say, "I'll have the. Kungpow chicken." Mhm. And he'll just. say that to answer any question asked by. anyone ever really. And the kids are. really annoyed. I think it's hysterical. Yeah, it is pretty funny for sure. Unless you're in a rush because then you. have to ask the the question twice. Yeah. And I could also see how children. of of that dad might get really sick of. that joke. Totally. I mean, dads can be.

pretty embarrassing. Uh, except for this. one. Yeah. Well, not you, of course. All. right. So, what are the origins of. General So Chicken? Uh, actually, Chuck, there was a guy named Pengui, uh, ku ei. He was from Hunan and, uh, he. was living in Taiwan at the time, uh, as. part of the nationalist government. He. was a chef for the nationalist. government who was being visited in. Taiwan by the chairman of the US Joint. Chiefs of Staff. So, we created a. special dish that was in no way.

resembles what we think of General So's. chicken today. Um, it was a very heavy. dish, sour, hot, salty. It was just not. American. It wasn't fried. Um, but this. dish was named after an actual real. Hunanese general from theQing dynasty. Um, his name was Zo Zong Tang or Soung. Tang. Um, and you get General So from. that. I think he was an administer of.

Taiwan for a little while. It made sense. to Ping. Um, and eventually it got. exported to the United States, I think. in the 70s, and it just got totally. transformed. Yeah. Uh, apparently if. you're in the Boston area, it's going to. be called General Gal. Either G Au or G. AO. Did not know that. It I didn't know. that either, but that that doesn't sound. totally foreign to me. like I um well it. sounds a little foreign, you know what I. mean? Um like I feel like I've heard.

that before somewhere. Yeah, I feel like. I have too. Uh so it may exist outside. of Boston or maybe it's you know just. more New England regional. Um but. Chinese food is very popular as a. delivery thing. Uh I can't remember the. last time I actually I can rarely rarely. do I eat in a Chinese restaurant, but um. I ate in Las Vegas. There's a very. popular very upscale Chinese restaurant. in one of the casinos. Uh the kind of. place where like a week ahead of time. you tell them you want the duck, that. kind of deal. Uh and our friend of the.

show and friend of ours, Adam Pranica, made that with Ben Harrison and our our. booking agent and friend Josh Lingren. and all the our wives, we all went and. had this beautiful big big meal. But. almost always I'm ordering takeout or. delivery Chinese food. and uh GrubHub, and this was 10 years ago, but they said. that General South's chicken was the. most popular dish that they deliver, fourth most popular overall. And just. last year, they reported Chinese takeout. is the or delivery, I guess, is the. third most popular food overall, I.

guess, behind pizza. And I can't think. of what else. I would figure Chinese. would be second, but I don't know. Pizza. and takeout lasagna, maybe. People love. that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think uh this. guy from GrubHub named Garfield was. reporting on that. Nice. That was a. great joke. Thank you. Um so back in. 2023, GrubHub did say that there are two. cities where a Chinese dish made the top. 10. Crab rangon. And hold your emails.

because we know crab rangon is actually. not a Chinese dish at all, but it is. found in just about every American. Chinese food place. It was in it was. invented by an American. The restaurant. tour Victor Berseron for his Polynesian. themed chain Trader Vicks. It's named. after a city in Burma, also known as. Myammar. And it has cream cheese, which. is as American as Chopsui. Yeah. And uh. I know I'm retelling this, but I'll have.

to just quickly say one of the funniest. things from when I was a kid was when I. was like 12 years old in a restaurant. and there was a gentleman ordering. takeout from the counter and after like. six dishes in a row he asked if it had. cheese on it. And the very kind. restaurant owner kept saying no, no, no. And at the very end he said in his very. sweet broken English that no Chinese. food has cheese on it. And I think the. last time I told that story, you and I.

thought about like a slice of American. cheese just on some stir fry and then we. were like, I think we might want to try. that. Yeah, that sounds like something. we would try for sure. Yeah, very funny. childhood memory. Um, what else? Oh, hey, uh, there's another reason that. some Chinese food became Americanized. Let's hear it. Ingredients. That's right. Uh, you know, a lot of. them were changed to fit our tastes. Um, including the ingredients sometimes. One. example that Laura found, of course, is.

beef with broccoli. Uh, that is not, you. know, they they don't have that kind of, you know, as far as I know, they don't. have that kind of broccoli in China. Um, what they use is Chinese broccoli or. gylon. Uh, which if you look that up, it. looks it's more like bok choy than what. we think of as broccoli. Yeah. And I was. like, where's broccoli from? Turns out. the Mediterranean. Okay. It was, according to legend, brought to America. by Thomas Jefferson, who grew it uh. experimentally in his garden. And then. he liked to fart. Yep. He said, "This is.

going to make me blow." Um and then uh. it was it took off in popularity in the. US in the 1920s. Didn't see why, but it. did, believe me. Uh well, we got to talk. a little bit about fortune cookies uh. because that is not Chinese either. Mhm. Um that is originally adopted from. something called the Japanese cracker. which is a savory thing. But in the. early 20th century, Chinese restaurants. were owned a lot of times by uh Japanese. people. Japanese bakeries were making.

these cookies and then after Japanese. internment, a lot of Chinese Americans. took over these cookie uh factories. Um. and that got me down the road of like, well, who's writing the fortunes? There's a guy named Donald Laauo who's a. CFO of Wanton Food Company, the largest. fortune cookie maker in the world and he. was the sole writer or has been for 30. years of writing these fortune cookies. I don't remember specifically talking. about him or his name, but there's no. way we didn't talk about him in our.

fortune cookie short stuff from 2022. I. if we missed him, I can't believe we. would miss that guy. There's no way. But. uh as a recap, he wrote him for 30. years. He used to write two to three per. day. Now it's two or three per month. because they have just thousands of. them. Mh. And he got that job by default. because he spoke the best English at the. company. And his quote is, "I am the. most read author in the United States.". I I believe it for sure. It's pretty. great. Um, and then we got to talk about.

a couple of regional. specialties. St. Louis. I remember when. we went there, we when we get back to. touring again, I really want to go to. St. Louis. Everyone there was crazy. nice. Yep. Um they had really cool like. regional foods that you couldn't find. anywhere else. Like good stuff. It was. just a good town. I want to go back. But. I also want to try the um St. Paul. sandwich there. It's eggfu young but a. sandwich.

Yeah. So you've got an omelette with. vegetables, a meat or seafood topped. with brown gravy on a sandwich. So, you've got mayo, pickle, lettuce, all. that. stuff. It sounds just totally off the. chain, and I really want to try it. Uh, there's another one, and I don't know if. you looked up a picture of this thing. No, I didn't. But if you go to Fall. River, Massachusetts, do you have your. phone with you or a computer. or a means of looking up a photo? Yeah, sure. Let me do that. While I'm doing.

this, you should check this out. It's. called a Chowain Sandwich. It's It hails. from Fall River, Massachusetts, but it's. in surrounding towns there and who. knows, maybe elsewhere in New England. But it is exactly what it sounds like. It's chowine on a sandwich on like a. hamburger bun, but if you look this. thing up, it's not a sandwich. It is You can't see. the bottom bun. It is just chowine all. over a plate. I guess there's a bun. underneath and there's just a hamburger. bun sitting on top. Like, it is a full. plate of chowine with just a bun in.

there somewhere. It's not the kind of. thing you would ever pick up and eat as. a sandwich. It looks like cousin wearing. his hat. It does. Actually, little derby. hamburger bun hat. Yeah. Yeah. It's. ostentatious to say the least, for sure. Yeah. Uh should we take another break? Yeah, let's All right, we'll take. another break and we'll finish up with. an ode to Panda Express and PF Chens. right after this. Learning stuff is fun with Josh and.

Chuck. Something you should. [Music]. know. All right. So, we're going to. start off talking a little bit about how. PF Chens came about. uh restaurant that. I think I might have been to once. I. definitely picked it up a lot as a PA in. the film business to for like big.

production meetings. Mhm. Uh so I can't. speak to its quality. It's supposed to. be pretty good, right? PF Chens. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's good. I mean, especially. for comparing typical I would not call. it a high-end chain. No more than you'd. call Cheesecake Factory a high-end. chain. Well, it's it's virtually on the. same level of dining. Okay. I'm not taking a shot at it. I'm. just saying like it's not it's not like. the place that um you went to in Vegas.

or Right. Right. Right. right right or. peeking Duck in Fall I think Fall Falls. Church, Virginia, which is an amazing. spot. Um it's just like you can go to a. mall and it it there might be one. attached to it if it's a nice mall. Regardless, it is tasty, especially. compared to like Chinese takeout. It's. definitely several steps up from that. Okay, I got you. It's just really hard. to like what high-end restaurant has 300.

locations. No, like when you have 300. locations, you're starting to work in. economies of scale. It's really tough to. keep um like any kind of cuisine just. topnotch in that sense. Yeah, for sure. Uh, and I want to quickly plug since you. mentioned Cheesecake Factory are again. friends of the show and friends in real. life. Adam Franica and Ben Harrison of. the Greatest Generation podcast have a. side podcast called Factory Seconds. where they're working their way through. the uh the menu of the Cheesecake. Factory, one item at a time. Those two. could not be any greater American.

Treasures. Yeah, it's pretty great. I. love those guys. Adam's uh uncle. actually is the voice of the Memphis. Grizzlies as the announcer basketball. team. And apparently um Cheesecake. Factory is huge with NBA players. And I. was like, why? And his uncle, he was. like, cuz there's one in every city. It's the same menu. It's a huge menu. The portions are huge. And they and the. quality is always the same. Economies of. scale. Well, I was wrong. Apparently, they make all their stuff fresh. It's.

not like bagged food. Oh, I if you believe that. Actually, no, I don't. It's It's true. Huh. That is a. little surprising, but I mean, it's not. like I'm hating on Cheesecake Factory. It's just I've never been. Oh, it's it's. They have a really varied menu. That's I. mean, yeah, the portions are gigantic. and their cheesecakes are pretty great. All right. Well, uh I'm going to be a. guest on that show at some point. So, next time in LA, we're going to go to. one and then I'm going to be a guest and. I can't wait. Good. Anyway, uh long way.

around describing PF Changens. Uh there. was a woman named Cecilia uh Chiang with. an I in there uh from San Francisco and. she in um I believe before 1965 before. that immigration law opened a high-end. restaurant there called Mandarin. And. she said, "No chopsie in my menu and no. eggfu young. All this Chinatown stuff is. a no no." And she owned a restaurant, a. Chinese restaurant in Tokyo uh years. ago. and her husband got a diplomatic.

post uh there. So that's why she was, you know, doing Chinese food there. And. Mandarin opened in 1961 and that's where. all of a sudden people were exposed to. like Kungpow chicken, tea, smoked duck, mushu pork, pot stickers, like some of. the really good stuff and authentic. stuff. Yeah, exactly. Um she uh sold the. her son Philip the restaurant Mandarin. in 1989 and he is one of the co-founders. of PF Chens. Yeah, Philip F. Chang, but. he dropped the eye. Exactly. So, PF.

Chang's pretty large chain, 300. restaurants. It's definitely nothing to. sneeze at. But if you really want to. talk economy of scales, let's talk Panda. Express. They have 2,000 more um. restaurants than PF Chens does. 2,300 in. the United States, right? Yeah. Food. court city. But yeah. Have you had Panda. Express? Yeah, I have. Um, I I used to. eat it when I was younger. Uh, I'm not. going to say it's like not any good, but. you know, it's Chinese fast food. Mhm.

And it's just not something I would eat. now. Um, I would in a in a pinch. It's. not like I'd turn my nose up at it, but. I I have been there before. You. uh Yeah, a couple of times. And yeah, it. is fast food. And it's it's great for. fast food. It's just such a It's just. different. It's not, you know, Taco Bell. or McDonald's or even like Chipotle or. something. It's just Chinese version, the Chinese version of fast food. Yeah, I like it. Uh, apparently it's a.

family-run business, though. Uh, even. though it's this huge chain and in the. 70s, they just had a few little sit-down. restaurants and it it kind of grew very. naturally and organically as this family. business, which I never knew, which is. pretty cool. Mhm. And if you're a fan of. Orange Chicken, you can thank the your. friends at Panda Express because they. debuted it in 1987 and now you can find. it basically everywhere, but they were. the ones who came up with it. Yeah. What. What's your order in a Chinese. restaurant or for takeout? I'm trying. some hunan tonight cuz I don't normally.

eat that and I want to see what it's. like. Um but typically a garlic chicken. of some sort. I like savory brown. sauces, umami brown sauces. Usually. chicken if I'm really feeling crazy. Maybe like a happy family or something. like that. Are you white rice or fried. rice? White steamed rice. Boy, I got to. have that fried rice. Oh yeah, there's. too many peas in fried rice. And peas. are one of my most hated things on the. entire planet. Oh, I love peas. I hate. peas. Yeah, I got to get that fried.

rice. I'll get a lot of sweet and sour. chicken or sesame chicken. Got to get. the egg roll. I'll take a beef and. broccoli if people have ordered it, but. that's not my order. But I also try a. lot of stuff. If I'm at a big group and. someone's just ordering a bunch of. Chinese food, I'll I'll eat almost all. of it. Do you ask them first? What? Like. what to order? No. Can I have some of. your order? Oh, yeah. For sure. Uh and. then you know if you're in a place um. not all cities have this stuff, but if. you're in a place that has the really. good authentic stuff and you get dim sum.

or some pork buns or soup dumplings, like all that stuff is great, but you. can't find that everywhere. No, I really. want some Chinese food now. Uh, it's. going to happen. Um, that's the first. thing I ordered after our week at the. beach in South Carolina after eating, you know, coastal seafood, American. seafood. I was like, I can eat some. Chinese food. So, um, America's not the. only place that took Chinese food and. said, "Here, meet this orange and. squeezed it together and then fried it.". Um, that's like I said at the outset,

it's happened all over the world. And. apparently I'm not on Tik Tok much as in. ever, but there was a thing on Tik Tok a. couple years ago where American people. picked up on UK British Chinese food and. were like, "What are you guys doing over. there?" Yeah, I didn't see any of that. either, but apparently it was pretty. funny. Uh, apparently the the food in. the UK, the Chinese food is a lot. different than here in America. It is. very popular over there. Um maybe even.

one of the top two uh maybe even the top. food in the country. I saw that it. definitely was by a long shot. Oh, really? Okay. So, they love it over. there. Um they will have things like. French fries, what they call chips, uh a. lot of a lot of curry sauces, which is. different than us um because there's a. lot of great Indian food obviously in. England and uh throughout the UK. And. they also have something um called a. chicken ball. And that's just what they. call it. It I looked it up. I tried to. find any difference. It looks like the.

exact same thing we get here in like a. sweet and sour chicken. It's just a. fried little chunk of chicken. Yeah. Which everybody loves. Even if you don't. eat chicken, you'll eat that. I I. couldn't determine though from looking. at first if it was ground like a. meatball. Uh but it's not. And they're. not even usually round. They're just, you know, chicken shaped. Yeah. Like a little chicken finger kind. of thing. Man, so poor chicken meat has. been like subjected to so many different. indignities over the years, more than.

any other meat. Yeah. Um, so India also. has a version of Chinese food that's so. popular that some Indian restaurants in. the US I've not seen this, but they'll. sometimes have dishes that are called. manurian something or other. Yeah. And I. didn't know that either. I didn't. either. I've never run across that. And. then in some cities, if the city's big. enough, they might have like full-on. Indian Chinese restaurants there where. it's the Indian version of Chinese, just. like if you had an American version of. the Chinese food in India. There's.

probably some sort of cultural exchange. like they open one here, we have to open. one there. It's got to be balanced. It's. is contractual. Uh the same for Latin. America. Uh, in the United States, Chinese Cuban restaurants started. opening in New York City, of course, in. the 1970s. Uh, and then what they call, would it be Chino Latino? I'm going with. Chino Latino. I mean, Chino Latino is. what I want to say because it sounds so. great. Mhm. I just wasn't sure if that. was right, but they started opening.

later on. Uh, they're in decline in New. York now, but um, apparently just like. like everywhere over the course of. centuries, uh, Chinese workers were. brought over to Latin America. uh for a. lot of reasons, but usually servitude uh. sadly. But again, they brought their. food with them and their food existed. alongside stuff like Cuban food and. Peruvian food and then they start to. blend it together and all of a sudden. you have these cool like sort of mixup. dishes. Yeah, I want to try all of. these. I do too. And then apparently.

also South Africa has. AfroCanton. Um, and that was that again. developed out of a Chinese community. that were brought there as indentured. workers back all the way back in the. 19th century. Basically, just like. America. Um, but and also just like. America, as more and more Chinese. immigrants have come, higherend, more. Chinese authentic dishes have kind of. become more favored than just the. AfroCantonese version. Uh, Afro. Cantonese just to my ear sounds.

delicious. Yeah. I I Yeah. again. I said. it said it before and I'll say it again. I really want some Chinese food right. now. Yeah, it's going to happen. And. we're recording earlier, so it's like. creeping on to lunchtime right now. Oh, are you doing it for lunch? I'm going to. make myself wait until dinner and really. titilate myself. Oh, no, no, no. I can't. get it for lunch. I'll uh What I'll. probably do is skip lunch and order it. for dinner. There you go. Uh, but this. has inspired me to I've been wanting to. do uh an episode on Cajun food, but it. was very intimidating like Cajun sort of.

Creole stuff because there's so many. influences. I was just like, we're going. to screw it up. But this this is uh made. me more brave. We'll uh if we do Cajun. food, we have to consult our good friend. and friend of the show, Doug Shashery. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right, Doug. Yeah. Yeah. When he brought us a Bodine balls. at at our New Orleans show and we ate. him on stage. Yeah. What a guy. He's. great. Oh, he's wonderful. Um, so yeah, plus his last name is Shashery, so he. knows what he's talking about with Cajun.

food. That's right. Uh, well, since we. talked about our friend Doug Shashery, uh, here on the episode, uh, as was. predicted back in 2008, um, by the way, Chuck, today's the 17th anniversary of. Stuff You Should Know today? Yeah. Happy. anniversary, baby. Wow. Well, happy. anniversary, love. Okay. Well, anyway, on to it. Uh, as was predicted back in. 2008, since we said Doug Shasher's name, we've unlocked listener mail. Well, that's about as fanfairy as we.

get, huh? Yeah, we don't Yeah, we don't. we don't do that kind of stuff, you. know? I mean, we don't do media tours or. anything and say, "Look at us, everybody. Look at us." You know, we do. that every week anyway. Who wants to do. that? Uh, this is a correction. And hey. guys, heard your short stuff on tulip. mania and wanted to point out that tulip. mania is now largely believed to be a. myth. I only found out about that a few. years ago myself when I heard an. interview from the author an goldgar. She discovered the historical reality. when she dug into the archives to. research her book tulip mania colon.

money honor and knowledge in the Dutch. golden age. Uh the myth was largely uh. promulgated, great word, by Scotsman. Charles Mackey in his book Extraordinary. Popular Delusions and the Madness of. Crowds. And he sent along articles from. Smithsonian and history.com and even. Wikipedia that said uh although McKay's. I'm sorry, Mackey's book is a classic. citation needed. His account is. contested, citation needed. Uh many. modern scholars believe that the mania.

was not as destructive uh as described. I'm a little behind on some of the. shows, guys, so perhaps others have have. written in, but no one else has written. in, Richard. So, you're the only one. So, way to go. I've seen that on the. internets here or there since we. released it, but I mean, honestly, Chuck, we used a lot of different. sources for that. And yeah, I I mean, yes, you can make a case that it was. exaggerated, but the idea that it's a. myth is I did not run across that, but. who knows? And if it was, then I I feel. a lot of dismay that we released an.

episode where we were catfished by. history, by the tulip maniacs. We'll have to get to the bottom of it. Who wrote that? Uh, Richard. Thanks a. lot, Richard. We appreciate that. Thank. you for sending us straight publicly. Uh, and if you want to be like Richard. and set us straight publicly, you can. send us an email, too. Send it off to. stuffodcast.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart.

Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].