Celebration Florida: The Story of a Utopia that Never Was | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too and that makes this the happiest. podcast on Earth stuff you should. know uh I think we need to COA this one. unfortunately yeah there's a lot of like. really dark violent discussion in here. um what else just the the violence uh.

you know you'd think a a podcast episode. about Disney's own branded. neighborhood would be safe for all years. and it is except for the 5% of it where. we talk about the awful crimes that have. happened there yes yeah which will be at. something something I think that was a. good good thing to do um but something. to know about Celebration Florida if you. don't know anything about it we're. talking about a town.

that Disney built not figuratively but. literally yeah yeah technically it. wasn't Walt Disney but the Disney. company did okay so get off my back. um because it was this town meant to be. a like outside of real life everyone. outside of. Celebration is fascinated with anything. that can possibly be construed as dark. or twisted or bizarre or awful oh yeah.

it's almost like people want to root for. it to be messed up uh I don't get it but. it's all over the place yes is it really. interesting okay yeah if you read. articles about it I think every major. publication within the last 10 or so. years has at least one article about the. Dark Side of Celebration Florida right. and it's all the same stuff yeah I mean. I think if you are doing a thing where. you're like hi we're going to build a. town that hearkens back to the good old. days of of peach pie and Picket Fences.

and uh the ultimate Eden for your U for. your family to live in and then these. kind of things happen then of course. it's going to get I'm not saying they're. asking for that kind of treatment but. when it's build is such a you know. Wonder Years sort of thing right uh. that's like if The Wonder Years had. episodes with murder and sexual assault. right like what the very special. two-parter of Different Strokes oh. exactly.

it was stunning yeah it kind of puts a. Target on your back even though these. people just want to be left alone they. want to go live off in their own bubble. that's kind of the point of the whole. thing and as a matter of fact people who. live in celebration I'm not sure if they. still do but at the Heyday um toward the. beginning of it people definitely. referred to it as living in the bubble. yeah um and I say we get to the. backstory first because there's a very. interesting backstory about the Disney. companies and Walt Disney in particulars.

minations that ended up leading to. Celebration Florida being established I. love this stuff some might say the. backstory is the best part I don't know. who would say that but sure it's good. for sure all right so let's go back in. time then to the mid 1960s uh. specifically uh 64 and. 65 and when Disney Walt Disney the real. person was like Hey this Disneyland out. here in California is a huge hit um let. to do the same thing in Florida and so.

they the corporation that is went in and. very quietly um one might even say in a. clandestine manner bought up about 43. square miles um over 27,000 acres in the. Orlando area through I guess I mean were. they shell companies or just different. arms or or set up just to do this they. were shell companies set up just to do. this they were aliases used yeah and one. of the companies was called uh not Walt. Disney l.

that's right Ricky Rouse Enterprises. like it was all legal but the the point. that they were doing that for was. because if any land owner at the time. had been like oh Disney's buying up a. bunch of land I'm sure they're going to. need my parcel so I'm going to Triple. the asking price it definitely would. have happened so they were very smart. and by the time people caught on they. they'd finished their buying spree and. they were finally outed in the Orlando. Sentinel I think in I don't know 65. Maybe.

uh as the as surely the people who were. behind this buying spree and you said. something about them like Walt Disney. saying like hey let's try Disneyland in. Florida he definitely wanted to do that. but he wanted to do it on just such a a. vastly larger more sweeping more. imaginative scale that it was almost. like it's just amazing that this man. ever lived and there's tons of criticism. of him rightfully so in a lot of ways. but his imagination and like what he got.

done and what he gave the world is just. it's remarkable yeah and one thing we. need to uh point out about this land is. it was not like you know Prime land. especially in. 1964 before there was Disney World there. uh it was not the Orlando that we know. today and this land like a lot of it was. swamp land that they had to spend a lot. of money and time you know dredging. draining building canals and making it a. uh you know a habitable Place yeah I saw.

that they moved um 10 million cubic. yards of dirt yeah um they had to. develop 20,000 of the 24,000 Acres. because it's just basically swamp and um. they dug 50 miles of canals and they. were doing all this like you said. Orlando wasn't the Orlando that it is. today Orlando is the way it is today. because of what they were doing during. this period this is what started it yeah. I don't I don't think anyone is under. any misconceptions about like what built.

that town sure uh and it was a guy with. a little pencil mustache but the town. that ended up there celebration uh is. not what the original plan was the. original plan was way cooler because if. you've ever been to Epcot uh their. experimental prototype community of. Tomorrow one of their theme parks there. uh and you walked around and looked at. the vision for this idilic society that. was what they were trying to build they. were it was supposed to be a.

neighborhood where people lived and it. actually Epcot was a real place and not. a theme park did you see that um the. photo spread of the um the Epcot model. the original Epcot model I sent you yeah. a couple of those houses were pretty. sweet in that sweet yeah it was really. cool and I saw that um Walt Disney. planned for Epcot um the experimental. prototype community of tomorrow um to. never be finished to never be complete. to always be try new stuff.

abns I think is what he said yeah and um. it didn't quite go that way uh they. after he died and when they finally did. build Epcot they called it that and they. they it is like meant to demonstrate. future cool technology and then also. kind of confusingly all the countries. and nations of the world at the same. time but it is a really cool Park but. it's nothing like what he wanted the. people don't live there it's not like a.

an experimental Community um and that. would actually become celebration later. on yeah I mean he kind of wanted it to. be like tomorrow land which is you know. people parking their cars in tunnels. underground uh moving around on the mon. rails and the People. Movers uh and again just sort of this. idilic um Suburban but like a new type. of. Suburbia uh and in fact what would. eventually go to be called in the ' 80s. in the ear 80s new urbanism uh which was.

this you know we'll get well I guess we. can get to that right now huh sure yeah. because he kind of prefigured it right. yeah uh for sure new urbanis uh urbanism. came along in the early 80s and it it. was based on this idea. of you know nice looking architecture uh. houses with um you know where different. people of different income levels would. live very walkable set up in a nice grid. and you could walk to the store and to. the playground and. work and school and it's super safe and.

it uh you know this was just sort of. again that idilic uh idilic vision of. the future right um yeah so this this is. what celebration ended up being it's. considered a new urbanist town um but. again like I think Epcot opened in. 1982 right yeah and it would be that was. a full decade or so before they even. really started to think about building. celebration um but in the meantime I.

have to say I want to give the. obligatory shout out anytime we mention. Epcot to the uh I think it's on. Dangerous Minds website about the uh. group of friends who hid out in the. horizons ride at Epcot in the late 80s. and photo documented their their time. there it's really cool to check out and. then one other thing there I found this. years back but there they planned an. airport and there actually were flights. that um went directly to Disney World. for very brief time I think in the.

early'. 70s um but and on the landing strip you. know rumble strips when you like start. to go off of the highway on the shoulder. it's it's got those those ripples that. like make it sound and wake you up mhm. they created a rumble strip on the. runway for the plane to run over that. when you when you run over it and you. can do this in your car I think at about. 45 miles hour it plays When You Wish. Upon a Star as a rumble strip yeah they. have those in roads in different.

countries uh and it's not like a solid. strip but it just hits various you know. tiny little bumps that cause musical. notes that's neat I didn't know that. yeah it's pretty cool okay so back to it. so we've got Epcot um in 1982 and by the. mid 80s there was a guy named Michael. Eisner running the show right yeah and. we should point out that you know one of. the big reasons that the original Epcot. uh idea of a like a livable real space. went the other direction is because wal. disy Disney died in the interim and.

after that everything kind of changed uh. and that's when it became a theme park. but yeah Eisner would come on board in. the early I guess mid 80s and ' 84 uh. big new urbanism guy was a big um. architecture guy still is and things. were like this was the early to mid 80s. when Disney World was really really in a. big big um growth pattern I guess uh you. know hotels and expanding the park and. all kinds of stuff.

and they said all right here's what. we're going to do we're going to we're. going to Lop off part of this Southeast. uh corner of the property on the east. side of I4 and we're just going to. reserve that for now think about what to. do with it and they started to get a. little nervous that they were taking too. long to think about it and that the. state may come in and be like hey you're. not developing it like you said you. would we're taking that back right um so. they decided to to build a community. they kind of took up that part of Epcot. that had been cut off of the actual.

executed plan um and and see what they. could do with it right so they in 1985. they started um they started figuring. out how to do this and they put out a. request for um bids I can't remember. what the last word is but sure like a. creative brief yeah a request for. proposal RFP yeah those those business e. things that we've never had to do no. thank god um and then four architecture.

firms submitted their ideas and um uh I. think two were selected to put together. the final plan and the whole thing. started to take off from there starting. in 1985 I saw that um as far as um at. the beginning they were starting to like. kind of test names for the place like. right off the bat focus groups terrible. names tell them some of the. names uh the golden Oberon Jubilee. okay where do you live oh you know.

golden Oberon Jubilee or gge godge what. else uh Odyssey Ventura Horizon's. landmark or. oval uh how about Aurora. solarus rainbow. Majestic seriously these sound like CIA. projects yeah that's asrm not to be. confused with ASMR right I also saw. Fantasia Jubilee and perion madira like.

they were just I don't know what they. were doing like how could you even waste. money on a focus group with these ideas. right so finally they're like well how. about something shorter and catch. punchier at least at least shorter right. Horizons no they used that on the ride. already amerit town it's a little on the. nose somebody said celebration and they. went celebration's it man celebration's. it uh and they fired that person so that. they couldn't take any credit for coming.

up with the idea and they told everybody. Michael Eisner did I'm surprised that. they didn't literally name it like. mouseville or something uh yeah I mean. that's better than Odyssey Ventura. Horizon's. Landmark I mean it sounds like a horsey. book like. tweet oh that's good stuff um all right. so they also uh you know it was a good. move for Disney at the time because in. the mid 1980s had a little bit of a. black guy um because of this um tens of.

millions of dollar um infrastructure. money that Disney didn't steal but they. kind of. uh kept yeah or used for themselves yeah. essentially so as we'll see in a second. Disney um was granted essentially the. same status as a city or a town a. municipality in Florida has a lot of the. same rights and one of the things it can. do is apply for State money for its.

projects right so Orange County. apparently went to go um apply for a. bunch of Grants to to help to build uh. low-income housing and they found that. they were too late that Disney itself. had hoovered up all of the money that. was earmarked for Central Florida 50. cities and towns had hoovered up all of. that almost $60 million for its own. infrastructure yeah like Central Florida. was not happy about this at all Orange.

County had to actually go to Disney and. be like can we borrow 1.8 million of. that for this low-income housing project. Disney like sure sure at 80% interest so. it was a big Scandal so them announcing. celebration was a big like hey look over. here kind of thing look we're still a. big part of this we're sinking money. into this area don't be mad at us kind. of thing exactly and that um sort of. Quasi governmental group that you spoke. of was the made a lot of news in the. past few years the REI Creek improvement.

district uh you may have if you're. outside the State of Florida you. probably never heard those four words uh. until. 2022 uh when the governor of the state. of Florida got into a got well got into. a fight with Disney and disolved it and. it is now the central Florida tourism. oversight District um the irony on the. oversight yeah for sure uh the irony. here is is the the REI Creek improvement. district came about in 1967 because the. Disney Company successfully lobbied to.

get this um whatever new designation in. large part on the strength of that. original Epcot plan so they oh really. they gave him this because of this Epcot. you know neighborhood idea bailed on. that and then ended up being like hey we. got our own little mini government here. yeah very much so I mean like it it was. a government up until very recently like. they could tax residents and businesses. in the area um they one of the the. reasons why they were granted this was.

so that the company could undertake. things like infrastructure programs like. providing sewer and water and stuff like. that um generating power there they. could have as long as the improvement. district was around they were allowed by. law to have built a Mickey Mouse nuclear. power plant if they'd wanted to like. they were that legal it was a city. essentially right so yeah it was a big. deal to have that taken away um but the. the upshot of that part was they were. able to use some money to um help build.

celebration but then secondly the people. who live in the reedi creek improvement. district are able to vote to decide what. happens with Disney World and stuff like. that but that amounts to less than 60. people who live in that District so and. they all work for Disney so they all. vote the way Disney wants them to vote. well with celebration they were planning. on bringing like 20,000 families in and. that would really dilute Disney's vote.

about their own their own theme park. their own business so they were like you. know what this is actually outside of. REI Creek yeah and by the way you know. that nuclear power plant would have had. mous at the top of those silos do they. have um high voltage um like towers and. they're they're in the shape of Mickey. Mouse yeah around that area you really. something to see yeah so here's what. they did like you said um 20,000. families is what the the original. proposal was mhm um or was it 20,000.

people 20,000 residents I think oh was. it okay sorry still that's a lot yeah a. lot of people so they announced this. publicly in 1991 as like hey this is. going to be open for business if you. want to essentially live. in a Disney World likee environment uh. they held a lottery in 1995 for families. to buy plots uh I think for the 474. spots they had about 5,000 uh entries. into that Lottery and it should be no.

surprise that most of those people were. like big Disney people that were. thinking like what could be better than. living in like a Disney neighborhood. yeah or essentially like a a Disney yeah. a Disney neighborhood like in the every. sense of the word um and the first. family moved in in 1996 Larry and Terry. the haers is that cute yeah and a few. months later downtown was finally. completed uh and it was a big deal like. every body knew about celebration when.

it was being built I think Disney. ultimately shelled out about $4 billion. yeah for um the the creation of. celebration in the 80s and 90s yeah yeah. I guess so in in like late 90s dollars. yeah you want to take a break uh oh yeah. gosh we we have to yeah I know it was. kind of rhetorical all right we'll be. right back. [Music].

learning stuff with. josua and. Char. Stu all right so uh when they started. mapping out what they wanted celebration. to look like um they they really. reversed course on the whole Epcot idea. um which was again a little more like.

tomorrow land sure and they were like. you know what we need to do is make it. like Chuck was talking about Frontier. land in act not quite Frontier land. somewhere in the middle which is to say. you know old small town America picket. vences uh you know they talked about um. a new American town of black parties and. Fourth of July parades of spaghetti. dinners and I'm surprised you didn't say. pancake breakfast uh School bake sales. lollipops and fireflies in a jar so you. know they're selling and I'm not making. fun of this they're they're but they.

were selling an idea yeah as much as. they were selling houses they were. selling a way of life and they're like. who cares if this is this idyllic past. never actually existed we're going to. make it exist here and you can come live. here and if you like Disney this going. to knock your socks off and so they. modeled it kind of and the reason I. laughed because it reminds me of the. real um Seymour Skinner when he comes. back and claims his his identity yeah he. becomes principal and he says that he. loves. spelling bees and skin and knees and if.

that's corny then corn me up um that's. just kind of what reminded me up I. remember a part from that episode where. he said whoever introduced him said we. would like to introduce the real. principal Seymour Skinner principal. Seymour. Skinner or something like that yeah no. superintendent schmer said that for sure. so um I don't remember where I was. headed with that point oh that they. modeled it on Main Street USA like first. into Disney World like super cute pastel.

storefronts with wholesome stores behind. them um just like everything's kind of. close together so you can walk and feel. like you're part of a community that's. what they went with and apparently Walt. and Roy Disney were kind of obsessed. with that turn of the century turn of. the 20th century America um because they. spent about five years in a town called. Marceline Missouri the Disney family did. from 1906 to 1911 and um that's kind of. where they were inspired to to love that.

kind of life that's what they're trying. to recreate with celebration for sure oh. absolutely um their their literal like. uh Municipal seal or whatever uh I guess. it's that's what you call it right yeah. Municipal seal yeah was a uh a girl. riding a bike um with a little dog. chasing her and a literal picket fence. in a tree and it's just you know it's. that that's what they were were selling. they hired you know branding Specialists.

they hired some really high-profile. Architects and a lot of the you know I'm. not saying again it sounds like I'm. making like picking on it but a lot of. these buildings were really cool like. that that post office the design of it. is super awesome uh that that Spanish. style hospital is beautiful uh they. built a Googy Cinema that AMC ran if you. remember our Googy architecture like it. was you know it's some cool looking. stuff yeah and just a note on that um.

the celebration City seal that you. described uh Olivia helped us out with. this and she described it as. aggressively idilic yeah oh boy think. that encaps perfectly right yeah but. yeah those those um buildings downtown. were all designed each one was designed. by a very very famous very. well-respected architect each one had. its own architect like Philip Johnson. the guy who designed the Glass House. designed the bank at Celebration like it. was this place was a big deal um when it.

first opened the thing is uh well I'm. not even going to spoil it yet you can. you can just wait um so back to what. they had one of the other things that it. touted was an experimental public school. yeah that hous K through 12 there's no. other school like it in the area um. normally they have like a grade school. maybe a middle school and then a high. school this was everything. kindergarteners to seniors in high. school all going to school in the same. building that's right uh which you know. other people have done that's not the. most radical thing in the world but uh.

it is radical at the time in the mid 90s. to have a public school that had such a. sort of progressive model of Education. um you can go to any you throw a rock in. Atlanta and you'll hit some hippie dippy. private school that does this kind of. stuff on a very small scale but to try. to do a K12 school where you have these. new Progressive teaching methods where. you don't really give grades but you. give assessments. where you have combined classrooms which.

Ruby school has combined classrooms. there's a lot of benefits to that yeah. it's like it's an awesome proven thing. but um it's a class of you know 12 or 13. kids with two teachers that's all at one. point they had 80 kids yeah to a class. and uh two to three teachers in some of. these big classes 80 kids just all going. nuts at the same time yeah not to give. away kind of where we're headed but um. the idea was uh Progressive and sort of.

very forward thinking at the time for. public. school it definitely was for sure and. that attracted a lot of people too like. they're like not only are we going to. give you like a a community to live in. like this your kids are going to be. experimented on by Walt Disney. Corporation drink drink this they also. had Celebration Place which was an. office complex because one of the. Hallmarks of um new urbanism is that you. work nearby buy your home like you can. essentially walk or bike to work like.

your community is basically your whole. world yeah uh they also had retail. stores there is a uh Wolf Gang Bakery. still there today I think it was one of. the original stores and it's still there. which is impressive but one of the. things that they definitely did at least. at first if you were a chain you could. not get a foothold into this community. you also couldn't put Billboards up like. it was very strictly controlled who. could come in and they definitely.

favored small independently owned. businesses and if it was a chain it. would be a regional chain at best at. tops yeah I can get on board with some. of that stuff sure for sure it's not. true anymore there's a Starbucks there. but I think there's a Starbucks. absolutely everywhere you know true uh. and I did see that one of the videos uh. and I got a little bit of a chuckle um. so if you decided to move there and. build a house there. um you couldn't just say like geez you.

know what do I want to build what kind. of house really fits me they would hand. you a book um of about 70 Pages thick. that said here's one of six style houses. you can build and one of uh one two 3. four five different. colors and you're going to have a front. porch and you're going to have that. picket fence at least at first uh you. can't park your uh car in the driveway. at first got to park that car out back. you got to keep it up don't even think. about Park parking a boat in your. driveway don't even and some of the.

stuff that I've seen online I I tried to. confirm like 100% absolutely but I. couldn't but I also saw there was 160. page just sort of rule book for living. there including that you every house had. to have a Hidden Mickey Mouse somewhere. in it is that true uh yeah I saw that as. well I didn't read the book itself but. yes I saw that referenced as well from. some legitimate Source or other uh and I. did see somewhere that you could park.

one car in the driveway M and everything. else had to be around back so I'm not. really sure the rules there but um what. about those lamp. posts okay so if you went downtown uh. depending on the the time of year the. lamp post might be shooting out Leaf. shaped confetti right on you that would. be in the fall typically sometimes it. would also shoot out um soap or shaving. cream snow so it would snow on you and I. guess You' get soapy as your walking to. work okay I also saw that they ALS they.

imported leaves and fake snow as well at. times I didn't see that elsewhere um but. I just saw it in one one place but it. was like that kind of place um also. wherever you're walking downtown they're. playing like 40s and 50s like Hits music. pop music sure for sure and then in. other places they'll have hidden. speakers that play recorded Bird song. and I think here's this is where we.

we've reached the point where it's. starting to become understandable why. Outsiders are like this is. psychotic it gets a little creepy. sounding like something out of a movie. you know right it's so artificial that. there's almost no room for um nature or. reality to to come in and like are there. actual Birds there or have they been. driven Away by the bird song who knows. like I think that's why and people often. compare it to um the neighborhood from.

the Stepford Wives yeah or that that one. last year or a couple years ago bavarium. no the one with. uh God Nick coll is the only person I. can think of this in it and he's not the. lead Harry Harry Styles and uh oh um. don't worry darling yeah yeah yeah that. kind of thing yeah also The Truman Show. it gets compared to that oh yeah that's. interesting because The Truman Show was. filmed in Seaside Florida and seaside is. also like a very um almost textbook.

example of a new urbanist um Florida. Beach Town yeah I think Seaside is a. little more of a real place though right. like they don't they don't have like. fake bird song and stuff like that no no. no no they don't have that and also I'm. not I don't believe so one of the other. things about celebration that we'll see. is they have that 160 page rule book. it's it's enforced like if your lawn. goes you know over the the allowed. height I think it's three or three and a. half in you'll get a letter from the HOA.

saying cut your lawn or if you do have. that boat in your driveway they'll be. like you got to move that boat you can. get a letter if you take your um. Christmas decorations down one day too. late like everyone takes their Christmas. decorations down by a certain date it's. just kind of like the HOA is very strict. and if you like rules and you like not. having to go tell your neighbors to take. their stupid Christmas lights down. because it's March you would love to. live at Celebration I think that the. appeal for a lot of people yeah for sure.

so if you're going to have a new. urbanist um Society or neighborhood um. one of the you know kind of main tenants. of that is like um different kinds of. people can live here of different. ethnicities and uh and different um uh. Financial categories Financial. categories pay uh groups what would you. call that I would I would say different. folks from Different Strokes yeah. exactly uh I don't know why I couldn't. think of a very simple term there but um. so early.

on pay pay categories uh economic. diversity is what we're looking for is. what they said at first um and they did. advertise to you know black and Latino. families um they did have some. African-American employees in the sales. office um but you know if you're going. to do something like that sometimes you. need to like uh and this happens all the. time in cities like subsidize some of. the housing if you want to really bring. in um true diversity and instead they. took close to a million bucks and move.

people out of there that they didn't. want there to other places they said you. live over here we're not going to build. anything here we'll build some. low-income housing but we're not going. to do it in celebration you stay outside. of Celebration yes the racial diversity. push was a a valid Valiant I should say. attempt but it it became pretty clear. pretty quickly that it didn't work by. the time the 2000 census came around it. revealed that Celebration Florida in. 2000 was 88% white and um that was like.

uh 30 30% higher um than the surrounding. County the rate for the surrounding. County um and a lot of black families. were priced out like if you moved to. Celebration you were paying about 30%. more than you would for a comparable. house in out in Oola County outside of. Celebration uh is just much more. expensive to live there and. traditionally black families have less.

family wealth to buy a house that's 30%. more expensive and then as the place. became whiter and whiter fewer and fewer. black families felt comfortable living. there so it just became more and more. white until um more and more Hispanic. family started moving in and kind of. diluted the racial makeup a little more. yeah and if you want to feel uh if you. want to either have a laugh or have a. cry about home prices these days um the. average price of home in Celebration. Florida in those early years was.

$124,000 which was 20% higher than the. complete national average that's nuts. man yeah the good old days I saw that. now it's something like um I think. 677 is the med no the median Aver the. median price for celebration I don't. know about nationally yeah man 120 Grand. and that was 20% higher that's not even. you can't even like Grand I guess as a. down payment these days yeah good luck.

with that crazy um so okay back to it. Chuck I think it's about here well. should we take another break or no yeah. let's do it okay I was not expecting. that but here we go everybody. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music]. learning stuff with.

josua and. Char. you okay Chuck now we get to since we. are technically a media Outlet um the. darker side of Celebration. Florida yeah I mean you can't not talk. about it because it was a situation. where Disney rushed the project. allegedly. and these third party contractors.

sometimes were under the gun to get. these houses built and what you ended up. with was collapsing front porches uh. apparently like 70 of the houses needed. new roofs their foundations were. cracking Plumbing was leaking and not. necessarily every single house but it. seemed like a lot of them were poorly. built they were poorly built so the. construction was shoddy from the outset. especially when Disney wasn't directly. involved in the construction right. that's a huge huge deal that will come.

into play a little bit down the road uh. the school itself very quickly the. parents were like uh I don't know about. not assigning my kids homework for the. entire year or telling them what books. they should go read and then not even. giving them grades what is this. everybody wins on their report card this. doesn't make any sense whatsoever um so. the parents revolted very quickly and. they're like we're no we're not doing. this we want to make this more. traditional and eventually they lopped. off the high school from it built.

another High School in celebration but. it was a public high school open to uh. other areas around celebration not just. celebration itself yeah I also saw it. was pretty much a nightmare for the. teachers and staff um the principal quit. after a year along with about 25% of the. staff that's after year one uh and it. was you know when you've got classrooms. that size and it's especially with a new. kind of structure uh it was supposedly. pretty chaotic again 80 children grades.

I think they had grades like uh 3 to. five in the same classroom 80 of those. kids and you're one teacher trying to. teach all these kids I can't I mean how. do they not just look at that paper and. be like this is a bad idea yeah I mean. the idea with mixed grades now is and. may have been then but that's probably. too many is you mix two grades and one. year your kid is the younger and you get. good help from older buddies and it.

really socially kind of helps and then. the next year you're the older and then. that you are the more of the mentor type. and that all plays out in the end to. just you know socially and emotionally. uh pretty pretty great but again with. with 80 kids It's just tough right. that's my ultimate Point what you're. describing sounds awesome and I also saw. that one of the reasons for um putting. grades together in the same I think they. call them neighborhoods or whatever is. because kids progress at different rates. some slower than others and so if you. put a bunch of grades together um those.

kids who are going to progress faster. can progress faster and the kids who are. going to take their own time can take. their own time that makes sense to me. too again it's the 80 kids in a single. classroom that's just that in and of. itself is nuts what about crime because. this is where everybody's like um yeah. yeah and here's where parents you know. if you want to not listen to these next. 5 minutes with your kids it might be. advisable because there has been some. crime CRI mhm uh just like any place in. the world it it it what they didn't do.

was build some huge wall around this. town and you would still even have crime. sure uh because that's just what happens. but uh in 1988 there was a I'm sorry 98. there was a home invasion uh where a. couple was bound and gagged and robbed. in in their house it wasn't Terry and. Larry was it I don't think so I hope not. um this was a a pretty big deal in. November 2010 um the first murder in uh. celebration happened when Mato Patrick.

uh Gio vanito a 50-year-old retired. school teacher uh was living alone and. was found dead strangled with a shoelace. and um you know had some ax work done on. him and that's horrific enough but then. it comes out later that his killer David. Israel Xenon Muro was uh there to wash. his car and then brought inside uh. drugged with a beer and when he woke up. uh Mato Patrick Gio vendido was on top.

of him sexually assaulting him and this. guy went nuts and killed him he did and. uh the guy's um story sounded a little. far-fetched until I think two years. later a couple of reporters from The. Daily Beast I get must have been tipped. off because they started tracking down. former students reading um depositions. looking at court filings and found that. um the Gio vendido had a long long. history of sexually abusing his students.

even going on like trips with them. abroad like just him and a student or. two um yeah so like that doesn't excuse. him being bludgeon to death with an axe. but it definitely backs up the dude's. story you know and I even saw um in a I. think an article right after it happened. that that um Millo was quoted as saying. he got what he deserved like this guy. had been arrested and he was telling the. Press he got what he deserved when I. killed him with an. he he got a second degree murder life.

sentence um for that and also to just to. be clear if we weren't uh the the victim. was uh not a teacher in celebration he. had retired by that time oh good point. good point yeah uh couple days later it. went kind of Buck Wild in celebration. again right uh was this the the SWAT. standoff or the okay I didn't know if. that was the family homicide. no I guess we'll get to both of them. yeah yeah all of this that's right no.

okay so the family homicide was 10 years. later this was a few days after Geo. ando's body was found in 2010 uh there. was a guy named Craig fuche who was a. celebration resident and he barricaded. himself in his house and started firing. at the cops who. came yeah I remember when this happened. actually oh really uh yeah oh yeah it. was all over the news it was a 14-hour. standoff uh eventually the police you. know go in there with tear gas and. everything and found that he had already. taken his own life and it was you know.

one of those situations where he was. going bankrupt going through a divorce. foreclosure all that kind of thing yeah. that's a called high risk for a. self-inflicted injury for sure yeah uh. and not to dwell on the crimes but there. was one last Gastly thing uh you said I. think 10 year in 2020 um when a man. murdered his wife and three kids in dog. yeah and was living with their. decomposing bodies when the police. caught up to him yeah it was around. Christmas right and they didn't find it.

until January sometime yeah it was very. Grizzly and sad that's the kind of thing. that people are like see see you can't. get away from it and that stuff happens. elsewhere it's just when you put it in. the context of a place that is has been. created to not have that kind of stuff. it just is that much more ghastly you. know yeah absolutely so back to uh there. were a few other things that weren't. crimes but still kind of gave. celebration a strange reputation there.

was something called the Celebration. Death Pond uh there was a weird curve in. a road at an intersection and it wasn't. clear which way you should go and if you. didn't turn the right way you would. drive right into this 15t retention Pond. and that happened to three teenagers who. just disappeared one day and weren't. found for N9 months and they were. finally found in that pond they. eventually fixed it but um not before it. Celebration Death Pond became a bit of a. moniker on the internet. yeah they built a wall with flashing.

lights uh yeah you probably shouldn't. dead into a lake with the road going. left and right like on those hard curves. uh another reason it's called The Death. Pond is when they were down there uh. diving and looking and find found this. car they found four other cars down. there no and they're like oh there's. turns out this has happened before I. didn't see that oh yeah I saw there was. um as I was researching that found a an. article from Oklahoma where they found.

the car of three teenagers who' gone. missing in. 1970 and they found it like 40 years. later and they found another car with a. group of three people that had gone. missing in 1960 and 10 years apart these. cars ended up right next to each other. in this Lake wow I know it's just so. strange but I did not know that about. Celebration Death Pond that's that's. crazy all right so we should get back. back to Celebration itself and kind of. what happened with the the town and the.

HOA there because in 2004 um Disney sold. the downtown uh Town Center in the. business district which was 21 buildings. uh nine commercial 10 mixed use and two. residential to um a private firm called. lexen capital l x i n and all of a. sudden because they had all those. different buildings they were the um. the majority vote in the HOA so all of a.

sudden if you lived in uh Celebration. Florida and you lived in this. neighborhood you essentially had zero. say over anything that went on there. because lexon owned the vote and owned. the HOA essentially yeah and that's bad. enough I mean that's just a a situation. ripe for abuse but lexon is well known. around celebration for being the. opposite of transparent yeah and so over. the course of a good decade or more um.

this this homeowners association started. to notice like Lex and capital wasn't. wasn't um responding to any calls for. repairs and remember we said celebration. was built really quickly Often by. thirdparty construction companies often. very shoddily and the tow houses the the. residential stuff downtown that Lex and. Capitol bought um were really showing. signs of disrepair and nobody was. showing up to repair it and and because. of the structure of the ownership the. people who lived in like the.

Condominiums only owned the Interiors so. even if they wanted to pay somebody to. come fix the roof they couldn't legally. do that that's just nuts it is but it's. common uh with condos in particular but. they but normally the people who are in. charge of that are will come and have. the roof repaired but the um when they. finally sued lexon Capital they found. all sorts of terrible stuff had been. going on and that they were in big. trouble and now lexon was saying we're. going to assess 15 or 10 or1 15 million.

to make these repairs even though you. guys have been paying into the HOA your. HOA dues which are meant to keep up with. those repairs we're saying you owe 10. million more and we don't know what. happened to the money that you put in. yeah I mean they they were saying you. haven't been paying your dues and they. were like no we have you can't just say. that like where's the money we paid and. I I don't even know like has this even. been resolved no as far as I know it's. not and it's going to take a long time.

to unravel one of the things I saw is. that they in court proceedings they. found out that lexon had not once but. twice refinanced the mortgage that it. had on its um its Holdings and. celebration and took out like 20 million. and then another 15 million in equity so. they were sucking the money the value. out of the town and then not putting a. nickel back into it to keep it up yeah. Flash for a couple of years and all of a. sudden we're a country in the middle of.

a of a housing crisis and foreclosure. crisis and between 2009 and 2010 uh one. in 20 residents of Celebration uh had to. go through foreclosure MH uh this is. compared to one in 48 uh for Florida. overall at the time uh AMC shut down. that theater I don't think we mentioned. that they their cool gooy theater they. were like hey no sexy shoot them UPS uh. we're only going to show like really. clean movies and people turns out like.

going and seeing sexy shoot them ups and. they're like we can't keep running. Pleasantville over and over in The. Truman Show they're like pleasantville's. too dirty and. suggestive so the AMC at least for their. part uh got out of that theater and it. shut down yeah I don't know what's going. on with the theater right now if. somebody some independent person's. running it or not or else if it's just. abandoned I bet you it's open again but. that's just a guess I would hope so so. um despite all this and despite the. Troubles of the people um living in the.

downtown area with Lex and Capitol. outside of downtown it seems to be. pretty much happiness generally among. the owners at Celebration I think the. initial. um almost crazy uh expectations from. what celebration would be and could. offer has been replaced by a little more. realistic understanding but I think it's. settled in yes that's a great way to put. it but the people there are like yeah.

it's not just some some amazing perfect. place but it's also not the psychotic. Stepford neighborhood that you guys are. making it it's a really really nice. place to live and we love living here so. leave us alone and uh that seems to be. kind of the general consensus of the. people living in the bubble from what I. can tell yeah you know if it achieved. its new urbanism goals uh it did in. certain ways uh they do have that town. center and you can walk to a lot of. stuff uh you can bike to a lot of stuff.

um there are a lot of playgrounds and. things like that and uh but there also a. lot of cars um and beyond that it did. not hit the criteria of things like um. off you know employment opportunities. for people who actually live there to. work there um affordable housing that. kind of thing uh like you said the. Latino and Hispanic population uh. increased I think to about. 16% uh they're down to 72% non-hispanic.

white population now uh and I think. about 60% of the residents own their own. house and like you can't um the rest are. renters but even if you own a house like. there are no airbnbs or vrbos like you. can't rent a house shortterm there no. way yeah no it's literally laughable the. idea yes uh you got anything else about. Celebration Florida got nothing else. I've got one more thing if you like this.

and like to hear us talking about. Celebration Florida uh you can also go. listen to us talking about Celebration. Florida with our friends over at the big. flop right absolutely we were guest on. the show uh they pitched Celebration. Florida because you know the idea of the. show is things that flopped and uh we. thought we would do our version to. acquaint ourselves more with it um you. know before we recorded with them um I. think theirs is going to come out first. though right yeah I was going to say we. said what wow what a coincidence we're. about to do an episode on Celebration.

Florida yeah but check it out it was a. lot of fun yeah super fun uh and since. Chuck and I agreed that being on the big. flop was a lot of fun obviously that's. unlocked listener. mail uh Hey guys um my family and I. completed our annual road trip summer. vacation on the way back home I was a. loss for what to listen to on the. 12-hour drive that was suitable for me. and my two boys Liam and Nathan. uh teenagers Liam and niss Liam and niss.

he's got a very particular set of skills. that child uh that's when Liam asked if. I ever uh had ever heard of stuff you. should know I'm not much of a podcast. listener but and hadn't heard of the. show but I turned it on and we listen. the entire way back we learned about. whistling Wikipedia Guinness Records uh. I was about to say they just went. straight back actually I think they did. uh War of the Worlds Panic dumb. criminals hitchhiking Fort knock peanuts. alien abductions. multitasking Star Wars Christmas Special. okay they're jumping around a bit sure.

uh which was Liam's personal favorite uh. was the history of the board game Clue. oh that's a good one Liam agreed uh we. enjoyed learning about the kild Dozer. and watched the documentary tread to see. that thing in action uh since getting. turned on to the show I can't help but. listen to y'all even when I'm driving. around town running errands I appreciate. the knowledge for uh you guys are giving. me in my boys uh along with something to. bond over that is from Paul new field in. Louisiana that's awesome thanks Paul.

thanks Liam for turning your dad on to. stuff you should know we appreciate a. big time the check is in the mail yes. and Nathan and Nissan yes uh if you want. to be like Liam and Nathan and Paul and. you want to get in touch with us to say. how much you like what we do we love. hearing that kind of stuff you can send. it via email to stuff podcast. iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. for more podcasts my heart radio visit. the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or.

wherever you listen to your favorite. shows. [Music].