Couples Therapy: Reddit Edition | Reading Reddit Stories

- Hello and welcome to "Smosh Reads Reddit Stories.". I'm Shayne. And today's theme, it's a good one, dating. Everyone loves dating. It's so easy, right? I'm joined by two bombshells, Angela and Chanse. - Us being bombshells. and walking in together would be so fun. - They do it in couples? - Sometimes they have like a boy bombshell. and a girl bombshell. - Oh, that's fun. - And they usually come in with like hot whips and leather. And you and I would come in with like wigs. (everyone laughs). And we'd be like, "You guys ready.

"for some musical improv?" - You come in as old people, but then you take it off and be like, "Oh.". - Okay, so we're gonna put water in your mouth. and you're gonna spit. (everyone laughs). - Dating. How do you guys feel about dating? - I love dating. - Yeah? - I really do. I love going on dates. I love going on like a third or fourth date. and then like trial and error and being like, "No, girl.". - Wow. - Or like, yeah. - Wow. - Whoa. - That is a very different perspective than I ever had. - No, yeah. - Yeah, that's my favorite thing about Chanse. is how much he loves dating. Like, he could just listen to somebody.

and get to know them like. and have like patience and not be like in his head. He's just listening and he's like... - She'll also be like, "You cannot go on another date.". (Shayne laughs) I'll like line 'em up for the week. I'll be like, "I got one on Tuesday, one on Wednesday, one on Thursday.". (Shayne laughs). - He really loves it. - [Shayne] Yeah. - And I have never done it. - That's okay. - Okay, so it feels like everyone laughed. (crew laughs). - So I got a weird vibe from everyone. No, I mean, when I was single I would go months or years.

without going on a date. 'cause it just was like hard and terrifying. and I'm such an anxious person. Like, I can try to blame the world around me, but I also know that it was a lot from inside for me. But I also think it's really (beep) hard. - But it does make for the best stories. - Oh absolutely. - Like, I just have so much. You just collect 'em like infinity stones. - Wow! - Damn. - What the hell? - A Thanos reference from Angela?

What has happened? - I don't know, girl. - [Shayne] You've been... - I need to take a vacation. - Yeah. Wow. - You've been spending too much time here. (laughs). - I cannot believe that! - That is crazy. - Okay. - That's nuts. You're gonna make like a "Resident Evil" reference. at some point. It's gonna be like, who are you? - No. Lord God, no. (everyone laughs). - All right, let's get into these stories. First one comes from Am I Overreacting. "He's been pursuing me, "then sent me a spreadsheet asking to be reimbursed.

"for our dates.". - No, no. - Let's go! This is gonna be a good episode. - "Am I overreacting?". - This is it. We're gonna, this is all of it. - Oh my gosh. "Hi, everyone. "I am a 23-year-old woman, "and I've been dating this guy who's 32. "for a little over a month now. "He was very persistent in pursuing me, "constantly texting, making plans, "asking me to go on runs, bike rides, and beach days.". - Boring. - "We live in Florida.".

- No. - Sorry, sorry. - "And inviting me to dinner, bars. "and even paying for Ubers to and from his place. "We were hanging out at least four times a week. "Everything felt like it was going somewhere. "He'd been slowly building things up. "and even waited weeks to finally kiss me. "Then out of nowhere he sends me a literal Excel spreadsheet. "with a breakdown of dates, how much he spent, "and a column with my name asking me to reimburse him. "I'm attaching it because I truly can't believe it. "It felt transactional and weirdly formal,

"especially since he was the one. "initiating nearly all the plans. "What's even more confusing, "after sending me this, he still insists on seeing me. "and continuing to date. "Like, you want to invoice me and kiss me? "And for context, I've picked up the tab quite a few times, "dinner, drinks, et cetera without making a thing of it. "I've never asked him to pay me back or keep score. "I thought we were just getting to know each other. "and splitting things organically like adults, "especially since he's about 10 years older than I am. "So am I overreacting or underreacting?

"I can't tell if this is just him being organized. "or if it's a huge red flag.". There's a screenshot attached. - Oh my god. - Okay, we have, "Item. Cigs, 6/28. "$12.08. "$4.03.". So he's adding up every single thing. Katiki, which must be a restaurant. Cassis. Cheekys. Colony Grill. Uber.

A lot of these expenses are kind of small, but then it just all adds up. - To how much? - In total she owes him $249. - This is ridiculous. - Yeah. For all of this. And these dates go back. This is probably a month of expenses he's kept. - And he's splitting it in half? - It's a little bit in half. It's just a whole spreadsheet though. And he's calculating every single little thing. But even cigarettes. - No. - There's one that says Google $9.99, $5.

Okay, so she wasn't charged for the cigarettes. She wasn't charged for Google. But... I like there's one that just says "Stella's.". (Angela laughs). And she's not charged for that, so that must have been for him. Oh my god. Oh, there's another line that says Stella's. and she's charged for it. - Now let me get this straight. - She had one. - He sent this to her with the... - Hold on, we have the text.

- Okay, yes. - "Hate to ask, but can you Venmo or Zelle me some money. "for the last few weeks? "I know you got me some stuff, which I'm appreciative of. "and definitely happy to cover most things. "like our date night and drinks and stuff. "But you never paid me for the first round of stuff. "from a few weeks ago, "and money's a little tight for me. "and a source of stress right now working two jobs, "et cetera.". - Okay. - She responds, "Sure.". He goes, "Okay, I think $100 is fair. "unless you have any objections.". She goes, "Are you charging me for in-between days?".

He goes, "I'm charging you $100. "for the $500 of stuff I've covered. "since we've started hanging. "You never paid me the last time I asked for some money.". She goes, "All right, maybe we shouldn't go out as much.". He goes, "LOL, I can't tell if your butt hurt. "I'm asking for $100.". (Angela gasps). - Not butt hurt. - Not butt hurt. (laughs). - Not butt hurt. You had me 'til butt hurt. - I mean... - I guess...

(Shayne laughs). This is such a, like... I've never heard of this before. - Money is so weird. - I think if this is the situation, he should be asking to split things up front. - At the top. - Like, that's fine. But don't do this-. - Retroactively. - By the way, you gotta reimburse me. There's nothing more frustrating I think in life in general. when people don't let you know that you owe them. - Or like yeah, and when someone makes a list about you. without your knowledge just feels like an-. - Something alarming about it. - I remember, like, this is so different,

but I used to like work at some office as some like intern. and she had me log every time one of the other coworkers. came in late. And the log was like massive. And I remember just being like, "This girl doesn't know. "that there's a giant Excel sheet. "that I have to add to every time she's late.". It just feels weird if you don't know. Amongst so many other things. - Monitoring someone's behavior in that kind of way. without their knowing does feel odd.

I know that in companies like it's sometimes part of it. And I also know a lot of people love an Excel spreadsheet. Like, people love to organize things in that way. That's fine. But he's not letting her know this situation. He does say, like, "I asked you last time.". - He said that? - He says, "You never paid me the last time I asked. "for some money.". So I think this is him keeping tabs. of his own personal expenses. 'cause some of these things don't involve her. But he has a tab for her of like, oh, we both did this. So he's not letting her know,

or at least as far as we know, he is not letting her know. that, oh, we're splitting this, but I'm gonna ask for the money later. - Like, I budget my life at the end of the month and then-. - And that's when I'm gonna ask for you to pay me. - And because we've been seeing each other, I'll add your tab. - For everything all up front. - Yeah. - For everything. - And that's so intense 'cause instead of being like, "Hey, 20 bucks for tonight.". - And I'm sorry-. - Asking for 100 bucks later on. - This age gap too. Like... - Yeah. - He's 32. This woman is 23. Like, she just got out of college allegedly, like if she went to college.

Like, she's not in a place to have a career like he is, I feel like. - Yeah, I mean, I don't know. He says he works two jobs. We don't know her. We don't know a lot of those details. But, you know, with all these Reddit stories, age gap is always, it seems to always be a precursor. to like, oh, it is a bit of a red flag. - It feels like-. - Not that it's always bad, but it's that, it's like every time we read a story. and it starts off with an age gap, you're like-.

- Here we go. - What's gonna happen? And it's usually something. - Or like this is something he's been doing. for like 10 plus years. - Yes. - Which is his like monthly Excel budget sheet. And to just like loop in a girl you're casually dating. without her knowledge or consent is wild. - Today's "Reddit Stories" is brought to you by Mint Mobile. Summer is still in full swing. And you know what's worse than getting burned at the beach? Getting burned by your wireless bill. With Mint Mobile, you can get the coverage. and speed you're used to, but for way less money.

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Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Back to the show. We got some comments. "What in the ever loving nah, baby. "This 32-year-old man actively pursued you, "made the plans, had you spotting the bills sometimes, "led you to believe that y'all's dating was going somewhere. "all while secretly keeping a spreadsheet.

"of everything he spent on you. "We are not playing this game. "First of all, he didn't come to you with respect, "not with, 'Hey, I'm in a tight spot,' or, 'can we talk?'. "No. "He came with a spreadsheet setting the tone. "with expectation, not communication. "The message was clear, 'You owe me.'. "Secondly, this might be my favorite, by the way, "he can't even manage his own finances, "but he suddenly knows how to organize numbers. "when it's about you. "Thirdly, he really had the audacity to say, "'I can't tell if your butt hurt.'. "Like he thought, or let's be honest, "really hoped you'd get bent out of shape. "over his little manipulation tactic.

"The writing on the wall is so clear with this one. "This is about control, about what he can get, "about how far he can push, about what you'll tolerate. "There will always be a spreadsheet, a reminder, "a tally of what he's done for you and what you owe him. "If you stay with this man, you'll always be in debt, "always paying it back financially, emotionally, "and mentally. "And when you finally react, "because this is a literal form of abuse, "you'll be the one labeled the problem.". - Jesus. - "The proof is in this whole interaction. "Don't just walk away, run. "You got too much life ahead of you.". - Okay, okay.

- "Spending time on someone like this!". (Angela laughs). Do I, okay. - Amazing read. - Hey, look, a part of me is like, hey, whoa, little bit overboard. But a part of me is also like- - Go, girl. - It does start somewhere, right? Like, bad relationships don't start. on day one of just like, oh, he was an absolute nightmare. No, it starts and they see-. - Yeah. - That's how manipulation works. So I think this person's probably speaking. from clear experience. - Yeah. - I was like, whoa, what have you dealt with?

- Yeah, that person, that's like, you tell your friend at a bar. what's going on with you, and she's like, "Here's what I have to say. "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.". And you're like, "Whoa.". - It also feels like we're not giving this guy the benefit. of the doubt in that he clearly missed something. and it wasn't communicated. But I don't think he's beyond being... Beyond fixing this. Beyond like realizing, oh, maybe I should have communicated this upfront. And if she's like, "This is something you should have communicated upfront,".

even though I don't know his dating history. if he's done this before. But like he can probably, he could be able to fix this. and be like, "Oh, we can split things moving forward.". - Yeah. What I do agree with this comment is that. like so many things, it's not necessarily like the content. that's the problem, right? It's not that he's keeping tabs. or I mean, there's questions. It's how he's communicating so much of it. - Yeah. - That's a problem. And I agree with the, like, being like, "Ooh, are you butt hurt?".

Whatever. It's like, how he's doing this is, it's how he's coming across with it that's manipulative. - Yeah. - As opposed to oh, asking someone to split the money-. - That's not the problem. - It's not a problem. It's how he's going about it. - Yeah, and it's just like the, like, to me there's a little bit of deceit. to not say it for so long. - [Chanse] Yeah. - [Shayne] Absolutely. - And that's what's like, it's like less about control. and more about like hiding something. - If he's not being manipulative-. - Yeah. - Then at the very least he's just very bad. at communicating with her. He's not communicating with her.

And that's a problem in itself, even if his intentions aren't bad. - Yeah. - I think it's those little things. when you go out with someone, it sometimes feels like it's not necessary to say, but I think it is still nice. when it's like, "Oh, I've got this.". Like, "Oh, are we splitting this?". - Yeah, yeah. - And being like, "That's that.". And I've always kind of had the... I don't like the heteronormative expectation. that like a man pays. But I've always kind of in my head had this thing of like, whoever kind of asks the other person on the date-. - Agreed. - Is probably the one who's gonna pay.

But once again, at the end of the date, if they go, or at the top of the date you go, "Hey, do you mind if we split this? "Like, I'm in a tight spot.". - Yeah. - That's okay. - And there's also a way to go, there's so many opportunities. to go on fiscally responsible dates. - Totally. - It's like, I will say, I had somebody say to me. that they were on a tight budget before a date. And I recognize that like, that's hard to say. Like, and it does feel like this guy was like, "Let me just get to know her more. "and feel more comfortable,".

or something where he was just like, "I don't wanna say this up top.". And there is a level of like courage it takes to be like... Like, it's vulnerable. But like still you gotta, you can't make an Excel sheet and add a tab for your girl. You can't do that. - It's once again though, I always struggle when people are like, "Oh, so I kept this secret for a month or so. "because I didn't think you'd like me.". It's like, but don't you want to know. if this person is gonna be into you. for like your real situation?

I understand that on a first date, maybe a couple dates, but like you gotta let them know eventually. You can't keep keeping it a secret. I don't know if that was this guy's intentions, but that's a possibility. Some other comments. "Quite frankly, if this guy's in his 30s, "working two jobs and dead broke, "he needs to be focused elsewhere, "not dating a college girl. "If he wanted to do cheap/free dates, that is fine. "And if he wanted to go Dutch, that is fine. "But to come back and hit you with a bill is crazy. "You haven't been itemizing date bills to send him. "Dinners you covered, beauty products, gas money, et cetera.

"Because that is unhinged. "Of course he would pursue you aggressively. "He gets to have arm candy. "that is more financially stable than him. "I'm in his age range. "and no offense would not date someone that much younger, "but if I did, I would be paying. "for a way higher percentage of things, "not because I'm rich, "but because I've had 10 additional years. "to get my shit together and be stable, "as opposed to asking someone just getting on their feet. "to waste their funds.". Lastly, someone says, "WTF? "I've spent money on plenty of dates in my past. "and regretted it, but I've never had the audacity. "to demand reimbursement. "even when things didn't go where I wanted.

"If anything you underacted. "I would've laughed in his face and told him to eat shit. "Like, how are you gonna ask someone on dates, "then demand your money back, "especially after you have paid for some. "and even gotten him stuff as well. "Maybe don't spend so much money on the dates. "if you can't afford it. "Like, hello? "He's lucky as hell you're a nice person. "because this is just insane to me. "Definitely never go on a date with this fool ever again.". - These commenters are rabid. - I feel like it's the same girl. - They're like (snarls). - They have a gun at the screen. - I feel like this is all the same girl. - It's always fun to me when a comment.

you can tell they have experience with something. and they're like letting it out there. Well, guess what? Update. - Update! (Angela and Chanse squeal). - That's right. - Do the thing. Do the thing we practiced. - No! (crew laughs). We discussed being a little more theatrical. with the updates, but not that. (Shayne laughs). (everyone laughs).

- Do the thing. No! - We discussed doing a little dance. (everyone laughs). - Update. "Hi, everyone. "Thanks so much for all the responses on my last post. "It blew up, and I appreciate all the feedback. "I wanted to add some details. "that didn't make it into the original post. "since a lot of people were asking for clarification.". Here we go. We need this. "In the spreadsheet he sent me, I'm in the green column. "and no, it's not cigars/cigs for me, LOL. "He took me to a nicer spot called In-Between Days.

"for a more intimate dinner. "The other man on the spreadsheet asking for payment. "was actually his twin. "who sometimes joins us on double dates. "but usually picks up the check himself. "I always offer to pay my share. "Money is genuinely stressful for me, "and I hate the feeling of owing anyone.". - Yes. - "He always refused in the moment, "then turned around and invoiced me formally later.". - No. - "I would've much rather just paid my own way. "from the start than have any of this happen.". Okay, that changes my perspective entirely. - Me too. - I'm like, don't. That's lying. Don't lie.

- That's lying. Don't lie. - That to me is... I'm now one of the commenters. I'm like, go. - I love that. - Run. Run. - Shayne. That's lying. Don't lie. - Don't lie. Come on, stop. - Psycho behavior. - Don't do that. Now that's manipulative. Now it's-. - Go out with the twin. - It's now him wanting her to owe. - Go out with the twin. - If I had a situation with someone and I was like, "Oh, let's split this.". They go, "No, no, no. I've got it.". - [Chanse] Yeah. - And then they asked me days, weeks later, like, "Hey, you owe me for that.".

I'd be like, "I'm never talking to you again.". - Yeah, no. - I've never seen you like that. That was so funny. - That's so-. - That's lying. Don't lie. - I hate that. - It's different to be like in a group and be like, "I'll put my card down. Just Venmo me.". Or even like, "I'll put my card down. Just Venmo me.". - Or we can talk. - The Venmo situation is a very common one. And I agree. But that is still agreeing in the moment. that we're splitting it. - Yes. - We just have a different mode of doing it. - I mean, it's all... It's really hard to give a fine rule on this stuff now. But I will say, even if they asked me out,

I am always going for my wallet. - Yeah. - Show intent. But I am always assuming like, I don't know, I just feel like the culture has shifted. Like, come on. I don't know. - Yeah. I just hate the feeling of, I agree, I hate the feeling of owing someone. - [Chanse] Me too. - It sucks. - I hate when someone feels like they owe me. I'm very much like, "No, you don't. "Please don't.". But it seems like he kind of wants that. - Yeah. - One more quick update. "I sent him the last payment and then blocked him.

"and deleted his contact.". - [Chanse] Nice. - "I didn't want him to hold anything over me. "It sucks that I paid him, but at least it's over. "Thanks to everyone who weighed in.". - Good for her. - Good for her. I think that was a good call. - Get outta there. - That was a clear red flag. Okay, our next story. This comes from Am I The Asshole. "Am I the asshole if I report the couple's therapist. "that married my ex-boyfriend. "a year after our sessions with her?". What? Okay. - Am I the asshole? - Am I the asshole-. - Hold on, hold on.

- Hold on, hold on, hold on. This is wilder. than my brain can comprehend. - Feels like a test. - "Am I the asshole if I report the couple's therapist. "that married my ex-boyfriend. "a year after our sessions with her?". - No. - So they had a couple's therapist. - Oh, so I was thinking an officiant. No. - No. - She didn't marry. Her ex-boyfriend and her were seeing a couple's therapist. And then that couple's therapist is now marrying her-. - Report! Report! Report! - Yeah. - Honk! Oh my god. - Did you honk? - I reported.

(crew laughs). - "In 2017, I, a 25-year-old woman, saw a couple's therapist. "with my then boyfriend who was 36. "After three sessions with her, "I refused to return due to her blatant flirtatious behavior. "and extremely judgmental attitude toward me, "which my ex-boyfriend called me delusional. "for pointing out. "She had told me that I seemed too immature, "not ready for therapy or a serious relationship. "The whole thing was focused on my ex-boyfriend. "and his complaints about me.

"She never asked about my feelings. "or perspective in the relationship. "We broke up about two months after the sessions, "but I stayed living with my ex-boyfriend until November. "Once after I moved out, "I had to return to our old apartment to get mail. "This was in December. "And that was the first time I saw the therapist. "with my ex.". - No. - "They happened to be getting ready to go out. "on his motorcycle. "and were both wearing full face motorcycle helmets.". - Oh, give it up. - "But I knew from her body type and hair that it was her, "along with my instincts, "which suspected something was going on the whole time.

"But nevertheless, I moved on with my life. "I just found out yesterday my ex got married. "due to a friend telling me about a photo he posted. "on Facebook. "The photo was of him and my ex therapist. "celebrating their one year wedding anniversary. "I found her Facebook with the name change. "and sure enough they got married September of 2018. "or earlier. "That's just when she posted the wedding photos. "This was less than a year after the breakup with my ex. "and barely over a year after our sessions with her ended. "I am considering filing a complaint. "with the American Counseling Association.

"My friends and mental health counselors I know. "say I have enough evidence. "I am not upset that my ex moved on. "So have I. "I thank the universe every day that I'm no longer. "with that narcissist. "However, I feel deeply disturbed. "to find out he married our therapist, "especially remembering all the harmful stuff she said to me. "in the sessions, "which to be honest, really messed with my head. "I fear coming off as a bitter ex.". Look, I... I think she should do it. - Yeah, absolutely she should do it. - 100%.

I don't know, like-. - I don't know what laws or regulations there are. around therapists or couple's therapists. - I don't believe that any of this should be allowed. - No. - At the very least, like, oh, you know. that this therapist actually caused you harm, right? - Yes. - If you went to a doctor, and it's like, oh, I found out years later. that they actually injected me with poison, like legitimate arsenic. It's like, oh, well you should probably report that. because that's them not doing their job. A therapist is supposed to like be there to like assess, and she didn't do that at all.

We've had other stories that are like this. I'm almost wondering if this was never a therapist. - Yeah, like I'm like, do you even report her? Is there someone to report her to? 'Cause it feels a little bit like-. - Well if she's a legitimate therapist, then-. - Then you do. But that's what I'm saying. - But I'm like, is she even really a therapist? - Yeah, I feel like she's not. - Or was this, 'cause we had a situation where people had a fake therapist. or they had their friend who's a therapist set up sessions. - Oh gosh. - Just to group gaslight someone.

So I'm like, we've already seen it before. So could this be that they were already having an affair. and it was like, oh, let's do this to like... If a therapist said you're not ready for therapy-. - Yeah. - That's probably enough to report them. - I'd go, "Then you're not a therapist.". - That's not a real thing. Like-. - No. Anyone's ready for therapy at any time. - Yeah, that's like a doctor being like, "You're not ready for a doctor.". - For treatment, yeah. - You break your leg, you go to the doctor, and he's like, "You're not ready for a cast. "Your mind's not in the game, dude.". - He's like, "And I'm (beep) your cast.".

(crew laughs). Eric laughed. (Shayne laughs). - Eric. Comments. "Hi, I'm a therapist. "Please report her. "Her behavior is-". (Angela laughs). - Yeah. Right. Perfect. - Every comment on this video should be, "Hi, I'm a therapist. "I liked this video. "I am a therapist.". - It's the crow scientist meme. Whenever you reference anything, there's gonna be an expert in the comments. There just always will be. "Hi, I'm a therapist.

"Please report her. "Her behavior is ridiculously unethical. "and who knows what else she has done. "or if she even should be allowed to practice. "Not the asshole times a million.". Someone said, "The normal rule is no dating patients. "within 12 months of the last encounter, correct? "Not sure if that's a legal or just an in-house rule.". Someone said, "Even if the marriage/relationship. "was a year after, "I bet OP's fellas started banging this therapist. "after the first few meetings. "Very unprofessional. "If I were OP, I wouldn't hesitate to report them. "Are there any professional bodies. "that can prevent her practicing though? "I don't know if they can be struck off like a surgeon.

"or doctor who is guilty of malpractice.". - I'm sorry. There's something, there's a weird taste in my mouth. where you shouldn't be dating your therapist. - Yeah, no. - That's a hard line. - Especially a couple's therapist who was like-. - Mediating. - Supposed to be helping you like mend your relationship. with this partner and then are dating them within a-. - Or like just take a year, take some time. It feels like it happened at the jump. - Yeah, she said before they even,

before a year of them breaking up. - Oof. - [Bailey] They got married. - They got married. - It's like, I get it. You can find love in a hopeless place, right? Like, what if you did fall in love, right? But like give it some space. That's wild. - That paired with what she was saying to her. - Yes. No, you're right. You're right. - I think it's like. you need to report her because this is someone. who is not taking their job seriously. - Yeah. - They are taking advantage of their position. And they harmed you. Like, it caused her like mental harm. This person could harm someone else.

Like, they've shown that they're willing to do it. So I think you need to report it. Update. - Oh my god! - "Wow. Thank you everyone for your responses. "I realize that as the ex, it is pretty much impossible. "for it to not seem like I'm jealous/petty/bitter, "whatever you wanna say. "However it is also impossible to have sat in those sessions. "and then see your therapist and ex get married. "and have zero feelings about, "regardless of having moved on. "Please give me a break. I'm human. "Anyway, I've made my decision. "I'm not going to participate in this post anymore,

"but I sincerely thank those of you. "that made meaningful contributions.". Update number two. - Thank God. - Okay. - "So one of my friends has basically taken it upon herself. "to investigate this therapist. "I swear she should be in the FBI, LOL. "She found out that this is the third last name. "that this woman has practiced psychotherapy with. "Under the first last name in 2014, she was charged. "with a DUI with property damage. "She also comes up on Health Grades. "with five one star reviews. "and an overall three star rating. "Essentially what this new information does for me.

"is confirm that she has been a shitty human being. "with shitty morals for quite some time. "There's no way this is the first time. "she has caused undue harm to a client. "Therefore I can say with certainty that I am reporting.". - Yes. - And that's the last update. - No. - Sorry. I hope that led somewhere. As of us recording this, this is a rather recent post, so maybe something will come of it. Maybe by the time this airs there's another update. - I want this to be like a limited series with Nicole Kidman.

and she's the therapist. and you like, you side with her, but then you go, "Wait.". - You're crazy. - The protagonist is a little bit the enemy. - It really sucks that, you know, therapists are also people, so there's a lot of bad ones. - Yeah. That's true. - That's always unfortunately the situation. And what sucks is then, you know, that becomes like a reason people use to go, "Well, I'm not gonna go to therapy.". - I know. - I know someone who had a bad therapist. Like, there are bad therapists. - Yeah. - It is a process of like finding,

but I hate that there's like truly dangerous people. out there taking advantage. - Like, three last name changes? - Yeah. Red flag. - Whew. - All right, let's move on. Our next story comes from Am I The Asshole. "Am I the asshole for walking out. "on a double date my friend set up with him, his girlfriend, "and a girl I had already rejected before?". - Oh no. This is on the friends already. You gotta vet that shit. - No. - You need to do your FBI work.

- Bad friends. - Ooh. "I feel like I need to say this. "for this post not to be removed. "This is not about the date, about relationships, "or something. "I want a judgment on me walking out of there.". Okay. "Cast. "Me, 25 male. "Joe, 26 male. "Jane, 24 female. "To give you a little background to the situation, "I met Jane through Joe's girlfriend. "at her birthday party last year. "At first Jane was fun to talk to, "but not even an hour later, Jane was really into me.

"and tried really badly to hit on me during the party, "which pretty much ruined my time there. "as the feeling was not mutual in the slightest bit. "Also at the time I was already with someone. "So the first impression I got from Jane. "was that she was clingy, annoying, "and just wouldn't stop bothering me.". - Oh my god. - Damn, dude. "Unfortunately for me, "she became part of my larger friend group. "because she is part of Joe's girlfriend's friend group. "That is a mouthful. Sheesh. "And because me and Joe hang out a lot. "and I am also friends with his girlfriend, "I pretty much run into her at least twice a month. "So the first time Jane asked me out.

"was a month after that party. "I informed her I was with someone and not interested. "She tried again two months later. "when I broke up with my then girlfriend. "Again, I declined her advances. "and told her I was not interested. "I got into a new relationship not long after, "but unfortunately she and I broke up about two months ago. "Since then, as you might have anticipated, "Jane has asked me out again. "I said no, again. "Well, that brings us to this week. "Everything has been opening up here.". This was written about 2020. "And Joe has been trying to fix me up. "with a friend of his girlfriend and would not tell me who.

"He is well aware of me having rejected Jane multiple times. "and the fact I am not interested in her. "He knows this in detail. "After a lot of what he calls convincing and I call whining, "I had no interest in dating anytime soon, "I relented and decided to agree. "to this double date idea of his. "We agree on meeting at Joe's apartment, "and lo and behold, Joe, his girlfriend, "and Jane are occupying the dinner table, "obviously intending for my date to be Jane. "I honestly just got so damn angry.

"that I couldn't even get a single word out, "turned around and left. "I have been bombarded with texts and calls. "about how much of a douche I am. "and how terribly I hurt Jane and so on, "and I am just like, "I literally rejected her like three times. "I'm not interested in her. "You knew that. "Your girlfriend knew that. "Our entire friend group has a running joke. "about Jane being obsessive for (beep) sake. "So literally everyone knows it. "So am I the asshole?". - No. - No. I don't think so. Immediately, no. I think this is a good situation,

and I try not to say this too often. If the roles were reversed, it'd be like, oh my god-. - That's creepy. - What the hell? This guy has asked you out three times, you keep rejecting him, and now your friends-. - Yeah. - [Shayne] Set him up without telling you? - You're right. - I think there's that feeling of like unsafeness, whereas with a girl it's like, oh, come on, she's harmless. It's Jane like, don't worry. It's like, hey man, like I've rejected her three times. She's not listening to me. - And you're not owed my time or attention. - Yeah, and it's really more like, I think it's fair he is walking out.

on his friends being so disrespectful of him. - That's what it is mainly. It's just like, listen to me. Just hear me out. - Yeah, they completely... It's that thing of like, well, you don't know what's good for you. We know what's good for you. It's like, come on, man. - There's one part of that where that person. could say that to him, but then to force it in front of him. and put him in an awkward position. Like, I even understand this person being upset. with his friend being like, "Please give Jane another shot.". And being like, "Please stop.".

But then to just like not even do that. and just like literally force it. - Yeah. I've never had this type of situation. - It definitely happens for me in the gay community too, and people just waiting to take advantage. of your boundaries. They'll like stay around you. just so that opportunity might arise. - [Shayne] Yeah. - Maybe if I have enough to drink. or maybe if I'm like out on the right night, then I'll get lucky or some shit.

- Yeah. Or I struggle with like, if I don't have someone I'm seeing. during that, another person... Like, this OP like was seeing somebody and then that was, then they stopped seeing that person, and then Jane went back in again. And sometimes I feel like people use people not being single. as like a way. It's like sometimes you can just be said no to. You don't always need an obstacle of a person. Does that make sense? Like, I feel like a lot of women, their no is more powerful when they have a boyfriend.

rather than their just no is a no. And like I found that a lot. where like sometimes I will be more respected. if I say I'm in a relationship, even if that's not true. - Yeah. - And then I get someone to actually disarm. rather than me just saying like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. No.". - Yeah. - So... - I still cannot comprehend that people hear no. and don't stop. - Yeah. - I've never comprehended it. because for me, any sign of interest, and I know I go overboard where people don't say no,

but I'm like, oh, but I'm inferring. that they're not interested, and so I'm like-. - Yeah. - But as soon as I get like no. or that I feel they're not interested, I'm like, all right. - I'm out. - I'm fully out. - [Chanse] Yeah. - I'm fully out in a way that I'm like, if like the ball's in their court, if they were like, "Hey, you know what, actually I'm interested.". I'd be like, "Okay.". But I'm not gonna pursue in any sort of way, not that I won't try to like be friends with someone. Not that I don't see something. But romantically I'm like, all right, I'm fully out. There's also the aspect, the friends are atrocious.

- Yeah. - Because I do think, I think setting up friends with someone. is a very kind, cool thing that people can do, but not someone that they've rejected multiple times. - And the whole friend group knows. - Yeah. And makes jokes about it, but then does it. - I also don't like when friends set you up. or when friends are setting someone up. because it's convenient for them. 'cause it's like, oh, we're all in a friend group. Why can't you make this work? It's so easy. Jane's our friend 'cause she's friend with my girlfriend.

- This was disrespectful. This was disrespectful to him. It was also disrespectful to Jane. - I feel bad for Jane too. - For them to do this 'cause they know. - She's got these people in her head going like, "Just try it again.". - They're probably... I'm inferring here. They're probably reinforcing her. She's probably going, "Oh, like he rejected me, but I'm really into him.". And they're like, "You know what? "Just like give it some time.". - He's this way. Yeah. - If they're a really good friend, they need to be telling Jane like, "You need to stop.". - Yeah. - He's rejected you three times. Stop. He's not into you. As your friend, that's important.

And it's also as a friend being like respectful. of your friend who's not into her and recognizing that. They were so disrespectful to both of them. And then they hurt both of them in the process. You guys ever been on double dates? - I'm trying to think. Oh yes, I've been on one double date. It was great. (everyone laughs). - I've never been on a blind date. So I've never been set up in a way that's like, oh, it's a blind date. - No, that seems hard. - I've only been set up with friends.

in that it's been fully transparent of like, oh, I have a friend who might be like a thing. - I mean, my double date story that I can think of. that makes me understand this a little bit more. is I had like friends, two best friends that were dating. and then their best friends was the person I was dating. Like, it was kind of like a best friend group a little bit. And there were times. where I think when you're double dating your friends. and everyone's dating in a friend group, you like want each relationship to be calibrated.

with the next. Like, I remember there was like a, oh, we wanna go on a trip. And I in my relationship wasn't ready for a trip. But our best friends in their relationship, they were ready for a trip. And it was kinda like, oh, let's force this. because it would be fun as a group, like kind of like dating as a committee. rather than like just genuinely one-on-one and one-on-one. But it's fun, right? And you're like, oh we're all, this is like really fun. - Yeah. - But I think sometimes it puts pressure on people. Like, it sounds like Jane was pressured by these friends.

'cause they were like, "We can all be this fun group. "and all be partners and all do stuff together, "and it'll be really fun.". Which it is. But then sometimes you lose sight of like, no, but by yourself, do you wanna date Jane? No. - No. - Then don't date Jane. You know? - 'Cause what's worse is if you force a bad relationship. and then you got... That will destroy a friend group. - Yeah. - They're like fighting in front of everybody. - Yeah, it's like, hey, don't make somebody, like you want people to be genuinely happy. Like, you should want your friends.

to be living their best life. So you shouldn't force 'em. to be with somebody they don't want. The verdict is not the asshole. - Yeah, no. - Comments. "Not the asshole, but your friend obviously is. "Setting someone up with someone. "who rejected that person is cruel. "Not the fact that you turned around. "I would honestly have done the same.". Someone said, "You've made your feelings more than clear. "to Jane and your friend as well. "You had every right to leave. "as you had already rejected her three times. "and still she set herself up for rejection number four. "You're not responsible for her hurt feelings at this point. "Your friend should have known better. "than to blindside you with a date with someone.

"who he knows full well you have zero interest in. "Though if I might venture a guess, "I'd say that the double date was 100% Jane's. "and your friend's girlfriend's idea. "and your friend most likely just got pressured. "into convincing you to come.". OP said, "Even so, he's one of my best friends. "He shouldn't be screwing me over like that. "Even if it was 100% their idea, I still blame Joe most.". Lastly, someone said, "Not the asshole. "You definitely made the right call by leaving. "Jane is trying to force you into a relationship with her. "And if you give her even the slightest implication. "that there may be a chance she'll continue pestering you.

"with unwanted attention. "She needed this very clear message. "that you are not interested. "in even entertaining the idea of dating her. "Her feelings towards you do not entitle her. "to a shot with you if you aren't interested. "And you already told her several times that you weren't. "This is honestly really disgusting behavior on Joe. "and his girlfriend's part, "and they should be apologizing to you.". Update. - Yeah! - A lot of 'em today. Updating. - Yes, Shayne! Yes! - Yes, Shayne Topp!

- I float away. "At any rate, like I said, here goes. "It turns out that some of the more pessimistic. "of you were right. "Jane was being obsessive and stalkerish, "and it sort of all came tumbling down on her at that point. "A week or so after I made my post, "she decided to message me. "It came down to her not understanding. "why I was showing interest in her. "and then refused to date her. "I never showed interest in her beyond basic friendliness. "A wall of texts. "dedicated to thrashing my previous relationships. "and calling them all sorts of names, "specifically pointing out how I dated the wrong girls.

"and a weird rant about how everyone agreed me and her. "were meant to be, which just isn't the case. "Like I said in my previous post, "there is a running joke in our friend group. "how weird she is. "Now you might think this is something that can be expected, "something that just happens, an outlet for her of sorts. "Except she sent it from the wrong account. "See, I had become internet friends. "with a person in the past month or two. "Me and her would game together, chat from time to time, "you know, the usual organic internet friend situation.". - No!

- "And the messages concerning our date. "were sent from this account. "Turns out she had literally used this alias. "to infiltrate my internet friend group. "and keep tabs on me of sorts. "Obviously this freaked me the (beep) out. "I took screenshots of what she had sent me. "and afterwards blocked all accounts. "that I knew now she was using. "I followed that up by sharing everything. "in our friend Discord and in our friend WhatsApp group. "so everyone could see, "which resulted in her being kicked from both. "And I later got a call from Joe full unapologetic. "telling me he had no idea.

"and he knew he shouldn't have done it, "but that his girlfriend was being pressured by Jane. "Turned out Jane had literally been bitching at her. "for months to arrange something like this. "and she finally caved. "Again, creepy stuff. "And I told him that I needed some time. "as he really (beep) me over big time. "and I didn't trust him anymore as a result. "While Jane has been shunned by all friends, "she still contacted me twice, "once to apologize, which quickly turned into weird shit. "where she started talking about us. "She seemed convinced there is an us and I am interested. "The second time she contacted me was just to curse at me.

"Both from random accounts. "I'm not sure where to go from here, "and I am still pretty shook up.". - This, okay. I wanted to say that my instincts were right on the money. I didn't say anything. But I was like, it feels, as soon as he said that Jane was obsessive, I was like, it feels like she's masterminding this shit. Like, she's got all the friends in place, like (beep) chess master or some shit. Like, Jafar is what it's giving. It's like I'm gonna-. - It's giving Jafar. - I'm gonna get in charge of this whole kingdom. so I can marry the princess.

- Yeah. - Whoa, dude. The catfish side part. - Yeah. - Update. Side plot. - Catfish side part. - Part update, side plot. - The red flag of someone not taking a hint is really scary. 'cause it's like how far can they not take a hint? - Yeah. - It's literally like I can win. - Yeah. - You can't win love. That's not how it works. - And it's also giving, it's my way or the highway. Like, I want this. I don't care if you don't. I'm going to find a way, even if I have to change my damn name.

That's crazy! And I don't like saying the C word. - It kind of feels like we can finally be together. We did it. - It's me, Jane. - Well, it's dangerous. It's dangerous behavior. And it is really scary. when someone thinks they know what's best for you. - Yeah. - And they go, "Well no, I see us.". But you don't see it. It's like... - No. - You said we don't have chemistry, but we work so well together in "Overwatch.". - Yeah. - We have so many team wins.

- It's like username Jafar. (crew laughs). Not Jane. - Not Jane. Janefar. - Janefar. (laughs). - Hot girl that isn't Jane. (crew laughs). - I have to tell you something. My name's not really Bane. It's Jane. Yeah, I think we've read so many stories. that have to do with like catfishing. - [Angela] Yeah. - Catfishing blows my mind. - Yeah. - It is terrifying, but it's also extremely fascinating.

I don't know if like real time logic can be applied to it. Like, I think it is... I mean, this literally. Like, it's a level of delusion. that I don't think I can understand. - I mean, to me, if I really, really think about it, I think it's like this girl Jane. like wanted this level of connection. with this person so badly. that they didn't even care if they had to change themselves. Like, or they had to like hide behind.

I mean, a lot of people hide behind something else. in order to connect, because she was getting the vibe obviously. that she wasn't a connect, but she was like, "But I know I can connect with this person.". - What's really scary about it too is I feel like. in all these situations where I read about this, I don't believe for a second. that Jane actually knows who he is. - No. - It's, they're in love, they're obsessed with an idea. - Yeah. - [Shayne] That doesn't even exist. - Yeah. - So, I don't know. It's really, really unhealthy. - There's something in my head that's like,

okay, so I'm thinking in the head of someone catfishing, it's like, oh, well they'll get to know me, the real me, so that the physical thing doesn't really matter that much. - Yeah, like I think like, honestly, if you track it all the way back, it's a deep need to connect. - Yeah. - And they will do that at any cost. And they're not really thinking about the last act. where they have to kind of then be the person they are. - It's probably addictive too. It probably gives them a rush. that they feel like they have what they want.

- Yeah. - It's hard to just walk away from that. - Attention. - Yeah. All right. Our next story comes from Relationship Advice. "My girlfriend, who's 21, "and my brother, who's 20, are soulmates.". - Okay. - Okay. - Am I the asshole? - Am I a jerk? - I'm stealing money. Am I the asshole? - And I just killed a man. (Angela laughs). "My girlfriend, who's 21, and I, 21-year-old man, "have been dating for about seven months now.

"We both used to work at the same restaurant, "and I asked her out. "I've always felt like we were very different people, "but that's what I liked about our relationship. "I feel like I'm always learning something. "by being around her. "and trying my best to indulge in her interests. "Three months ago I introduced her to my family, "and they all seem to like her, "especially my brother, who's 20. "I didn't really think much of it. "and was happy to see them get along. "since I'm very close to my brother. "But I've realized over time. "that they just fit way better with each other. "They both have the same interests in movies, books, music,

"sports, foods, you name it. "Although my girlfriend was hesitant at first about it, "I encouraged her to go do things alone with my brother. "if it wasn't something I was really into. "And they both had a great time. "And I know just having the same hobbies sounds trivial, "but it's also their personalities. "They're both very free-spirited and adventurous. "And I can't help but notice that they look so much happier. "with each other than with me. "Sometimes I feel really outta place around them. "as if I'm not supposed to be there. "But I swear this is not out of jealousy. "I just genuinely think they're better for each other.

"I love both of them. "And if this is what makes them happy, "then I'd rather they date each other. "and let me move out of their way. "I'm not exactly sure how to execute this. "or talk about this with either of them though. "How do I go about setting them up?". - Wait, wait, what? - This is like... This is-. - I don't know how to respond to this. - My dad is Philip Schuyler. The man is loaded. That's what it's giving. - "Hamilton"? - Yeah, setting it up with-. - Oh. - Go with this instead.

Here's my... - Yeah, okay. Wow. - You like me? Here's my sibling. What? - Yeah, it's giving "Satisfied.". - This does feel like a Jane Austen situation. It's like, well, actually my sister would be far more suited to you. - Yeah. - Like, what the hell? - But usually in media when we see this, I feel like it's the sister that's like, "I kind of like the brother.". It's weird that the person who's dating is like, "I know I'm not a fit and I know who is.". It's just, you don't see this a lot. - No. - He wanted them to hang out one-on-one?

- There's a lot at play here. I mean, nothing bad has been done here. - Yeah. - So it's like interesting. But one could maybe argue like this feels like self-sabotage. a little bit. - Yeah. - One could maybe argue that of like, oh-. - It could be that. It also could just be like, like maybe he just needs to get out of this relationship. and not set her, like, maybe he just needs to just like step away? - Yeah, it's also like these are two people he cares about. So he loves both of these people. He's like, "Oh, you're both great people. "Oh, you'd be better off together.".

It's like, well, but if she doesn't want that... I don't know. There's a part of me that's like, it's a little disrespectful. in the sense that he's assuming what's best for these people. who are both telling him not the same thing. - Yeah. - I'm fascinated by this. Some comments. "Your brother shaped you as well. "You apparently connect well with people like him. "and like your girlfriend, "so it's no wonder she's very much into you. "and possibly would be less into your brother. "than you think.". Someone said, "Whoa, slow down.

"Your girlfriend probably has zero interest in your brother. "People don't necessarily like being with someone like them. "My husband is my polar opposite, thank God. "And I would be absolutely miserable dating someone like me. "I'm too annoying.". Someone said, "She might not want to date your brother. "If you're not into her, break up. "If she likes your brother, she'll pursue in her own time. "But if my boyfriend came to me suggesting this, "I'd run a mile.". Yeah, I don't think there's any situation. where he's gonna make this happen. that's not gonna just destroy everything.

- Yeah. - You either need to say, "My girlfriend and I aren't right for each other. "and I'm gonna break up.". Or you stay with it. You can't set someone up with your brother, like the person you've been dating for seven months. - Seven months is a long time. - [Shayne] Yeah. - Seven months is a long time. - That's way too long to be setting... Like, if you went on a couple dates with someone-. - Yeah. - And then you're like, "Oh, you know what? "Like...". No. I don't know. There's no situation of this where I'm like,

"Hey, you know what? "This is a logical thing to do.". - I feel like my brother should be here instead of me. - There's billions of people on the planet. Like, it's not just about being exactly the same as someone. - Okay, there have been people, okay, hold on, hold on. Let me, hold on. There have been people where I would go on dates with them. and on like the second or third date, I'd be like, "You need to meet my friend because-". - And this happens. Yeah. - [Shayne] And that's okay. - You need to date my friend, not me. Like, you guys would be such a good match.

And then I'll like not, I will figure out a way to make them be at the same party. and then they end up meeting and then, whatever. - Sure. - But that's not my sibling. And it's not after seven-. - But there's also a little bit of you recognizing. that the connection is maybe not perfect for you as well. - This feels like he just keeps highlighting. and encouraging the brother's relationship. where it's like, it's not about him. Like, I almost wonder if, and this might be too much.

and this might be too me being theatrical, but like is this relationship with his brother, does he always think his brother is more deserving? Is that the household he grew up in? - Yeah. - Like, is this just a pattern? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. - Could be. There's a million possibilities. This... Just never read anything like this. - Update me. - There's no update. - What? - [Shayne] I'm sorry. I'm sorry. - No! - I'm sorry. - It's not fair when lot of 'em have updates. and then some don't!

- We're reading this in July and this was posted in July. This was very recent. So we might get an update eventually, but as of now, no. - This is wild. - They're like happily married. - But also I do believe in a universe, maybe I've watched too many like rom-coms-. - [Chanse] I agree. - Where someone's like, "You're perfect for my brother. "I can't stop thinking this.". - [Chanse] Yep. - And then that's the meet cute. - I agree completely. I feel like I've seen it in a million movies too. - Or just like a weird way of meeting someone. This is like assuming a lot on behalf of her.

- It is really assuming, it's assuming what's best for people. And that is sometimes I think it's very disrespectful. - Yeah, especially if it's on an Excel sheet. - Oh, you don't know what's, you can't figure out what's right for you. You can't see that this is perfect for you. They're also 20 and 21. - That's so true. - Like, you might be perfect for each other now. In five years you're gonna be completely different. - That is so true. - Don't do all this. Like, do not do all this. And if this is really, I think he needs to examine, it's like, are you feeling insecure about your relationship? Because it's also okay to break up for any reason-.

- Yeah. - You so desire. But also, yeah, he needs to, I think he's just thinking how great they are. and he did not give us any details about their own-. - I worry he's just insecure. of how great of a relationship they have. or how much they're laughing or something. And he's in his own way. - I think he seems hung up. that they have like similar interests in movies. and certain activities. And that's like the end all be all. And I'm like, I could see myself. when I was 20 thinking that's the end all be all. - So true. - But I'm like, not my case at 33.

- [Angela] Yeah, like that commenter-. - Very different. - Like, that commenter who was like, "My partner is so opposite to me.". I do think I have fallen into like seeing a person I like. or a person I'm dating really connect with somebody else. in a way that I can't connect with them on. And I go, "Well, that must be superior," right? Like, oh, but sometimes that's not what people choose. Right? Like, sometimes people like opposites. Sometimes they don't want their exact person, so like I think that is a very 20-year-old way of thinking. to be like, "We date who you are.". - Yeah.

I think also it's a danger. I don't... I have to assume this a little bit, but like the internet is constantly telling us. how things should be, right? Like, so many people out there are like, "This is how a relationship works. "This is how this works.". The problem is every relationship. is completely (beep) unique. - Yeah. - And so what might seem wrong to you, if it's working, it's working. - Yeah. - That's kind of sometimes your only barometer. - There's not one way to do this. - No, absolutely not. It's if both people are happy. If they're both like, "Hey, we feel strong about our connection.

"This is working.". Then it's working. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I don't know. It would be so nice if there was very specific boxes. - Yeah. - But there's not. But I don't know. I think this is a very fascinating headspace this guy is in. I think things will be different in a couple years. I don't think this relationship is gonna last. just 'cause I have a hard time believing. relationships when people are in there like just 19, 20, like I'm like, yeah, it's probably gonna be short-lived. It's not gonna be forever. Maybe it'll last forever.

I don't know. Can. - Yeah. - I don't know. - I think he needs some space from his brother too. - I think he needs to do some introspection. - I think he needs to like eat, pray, love. - Yeah. Yeah. - What an old reference. I bet people don't even know anymore. - Who's Julia Roberts? Anyways... It's time for our final story, and this one's a throwback. This is a 10-year-old story. - Whoa. - Feels like a parable now. - I know. 2015.

- Whoa. - That's crazy that that was 10 years ago. - The Iron Age. This comes from Relationships. "I, a 21-year-old woman, suspect. "that I might be my boyfriend of two years' side chick.". - Two years? - Two years. - Two years. - "Some details. "Tim and I have been together for two years. "We are both foreigners living in Europe. "Names have been changed. "Tim is a very private person in general, "and so maybe some of the strangeness stems from that. "In order to explain everything,

"I think I have to start at the very beginning. "Tim and I met at an event for native English speakers. "after each of us having lived here for a year. "We hit it off immediately. "Later that week, we went to a pub crawl. "with other people from the event and hooked up. "Only a few days later we decided to meet up again. "But when trying to decide if it'd be at my place or his, "he told me it has to be mine, and he'll explain why later. "For the record, I do not live in an ideal situation. "to be having people much less men over. "And he was completely aware of the situation. "He came over and told me that he is currently still living.

"with his ex-girlfriend of about three months. "He had his own room and everything, "but because he had prepaid for six months of rent. "to lend her some money, he was staying there. "Okay, so yeah, I know this is weird, but who am I to judge? "He says they are definitely broken up. "and I'm just sleeping with the guy right now, so whatever. "A few weeks go by. "and we decide to start dating exclusively and officially. "He says that he's just living with his ex, "who we'll name Stephanie, "temporarily for another three months, "and then he'll find another place. "All right, so it's a weird situation, but I trust him, "and he'll leave in three months.

"He complains about having to live with her. "and says it's uncomfortable. "He also told me why they broke up, "which was because he caught her cheating on him. "with her ex at a party. "So I'm not worried about them getting back together. "I'm not 100% comfortable with the situation, "but it's manageable. "A few months pass and Tim doesn't move out. "He says he's now got his own little apartment. "in the same house, "but that it's so much better for him to stay there. "because he doesn't have to buy any furniture. "and the rent is cheap. "Remember, we're foreigners, so buying a ton of furniture. "that you're just going to have to sell. "when you leave is annoying.

"He eventually starts saying. "that he's going to bring me over there to show me. "that they're living separately and whatnot. "Long story short, that never happened. "Every time I asked him to ask her about it, "he'd say that she'd get upset and blah, blah, blah. "Apparently she was aware that he had a girlfriend. "but didn't like it and wanted to get back together. "After a year, he finally moved out, not into his own place, "but into the spare room at his buddy's house. "I had been to his buddy's place before, only once though. "And that had been the one and only time. "I've ever met one of his non-mutual friends,

"which is suspicious and strange on its own. "I didn't help with the move, not for lack of trying. "So no, I never saw him move his stuff there. "Again, this was a temporary solution. "until he found a place of his own. "Through various circumstances, "company being bought out, which led to job insecurity, "him being extremely picky about finding an apartment, "he has still yet to move into a place of his own. "It's been about 10 months. "since he moved into his buddy's place, "and I've yet to be there, "even though I've asked many times. "He always says yes, "but then later says that he doesn't want to intrude.

"or be a nuisance, et cetera. "So essentially, I've never seen where he lives. "Those things, along with me never having met his friends. "or Skyped with his family are the underlying basis. "for my suspicion. "But here's where the real stuff comes.". - Oh, this is not even the real stuff? - Now it's time for the real stuff. - Yeah, he need to (indistinct). (everyone laughs). - "Last night when I couldn't sleep, "I went Facebook stalking. "I searched for tagged photos of Tim. "because I know he's weird about his Facebook.". - Let's (beep) go. - "And doesn't let tagged pictures.

"and posts show up on his wall. "While going through the pictures, "I found three pictures of him. "while he was visiting home over the summer. "In each of the three pictures, "there is a girl who is untagged and sitting next to Tim. "In two of the three pictures, his arm is around her.". - No! - "But the pictures are more posed. "and everyone's arms are around each other.". - Oh. - Oh. - "Two of the pictures are with friends, "so I figured she's a friend from home. "No big deal. "In one picture though, "they are with his sister and her husband and daughter. "So a much more intimate picture. "I do not know what Stephanie looks like,

"and she doesn't have Facebook. "I can't find a picture of her through Googling, "but I think this girl might be her.". - 2015. - It's 2015. - "I don't know exactly why I think that, but I do. "I did some more Google research. "and found Stephanie's grandmother's obituary. "She died in January. "So after Tim would have moved out of the house. "and definitely after they should have been broken up. "And yet on the obituary, "his name is listed next to Stephanie's. "as members of the family. "I do know that he was close-". - They do that in obituaries?

Sorry. - [Emily] Yeah, it's like, "So-and-so survived by...". - Yeah. - But her boyfriend? - Her boyfriend's listed, which means he's probably married to her. and that he's literally in the family. I don't think a boyfriend would be listed. - No. - Wait, affair caught via obituary is wild! Sorry. Keep reading. - That's why the grandma died. (laughs). She's like, "I know how to (laughs). "I know how to blow this up.". (everyone laughs) - Make sure he's in the room. - I'm gonna do this. (everyone laughs).

She could just-. - Mine was a... - No, she just could do that. - She goes, "Keep it on the record." (everyone laughs). - "I do know that he was close to the grandmother. "and that she left him stuff in her will. "But still I'm suspicious.". - You're in the will? - My ex-girlfriend's grandmother left me in the will. It's like... Ex-girlfriend? - I think he has somebody else. - "If what I suspect is true, "that means that he was able to hide this from me and her.

"for two years, which is honestly just impressive.". - Wow. - It doesn't seem like he did a good job. I don't think it was that impressive. - But he removed the tags, Shayne. - He removed the tags. - And in 2015, that was pretty hard work. (crew laughs). - "Right now though, I'm stuck. "I don't wanna bring up my relatively weak evidence with him. "until I can be sure because he'll just have an excuse. "and I'll just accept it. "because I want to trust him and be with him. "I don't know how to get any more proof. "that the girl in the pictures is Stephanie. "or how to know for sure one way or the other.

"So that's where I'd like advice. "I'm not going to break up with him. "without knowing 100% because I honestly do love him, "but I don't know how I can know 100%. "Any advice or help is appreciated, "although please be constructive.". - Okay. - Oh, look, she's young. She's young, and I also know like we do this to ourselves. where we convince ourselves of things. - Yeah. - But in a way, she did the right thing.

of like writing this out in an anonymous way. So she's writing it out, which is probably good to just like. see it on the page. - Step one. - And then to like get other people's perspectives. on just like, hey, these things in a vacuum, would you be suspicious? All these comments, I already know-. - You've never seen where he lives. - I don't know how people can go that long. I understand you might not have a great situation. to be like, oh, you can't stay over. It's like, but can I still see your space? Like, can I still see it? - Yeah, I go back to holidays too with these things. Like, I wonder where he was at.

You know, like when people, you know? - Yeah. All of it combined is a lot where it's like two years. and I've not even Skyped with your family. Like, I've not talked to any of your family. Two years and I've not met any of your like friends. besides like just our mutual friends. Two years and it's like all these things. - Yeah. - And yeah, I understand where she's coming from, where she's like, "I'm scared if I just talk to him about it, he's gonna walk. "He's gonna like, somehow find a way around it,".

but like I hope to God she just talks to him. - Yeah. - Does she. or does she do something else and find another obituary? - What do they do all the time? - I don't know. They hang at her place. - No! - Look, not everybody goes to Coldplay concerts. - Sick. - That joke is months old by this point. - It's gonna be really old by then. - This one's pretty obvious though. - Yeah. - But I know very well what it's like. to like see various obvious,

to see obvious writing on the wall and be like, "Oh, well, I don't know what they meant by that.". - Yeah. - Like, it's probably fine. Well, we have comments. - Not an... - "Here, let me help you out. "It's really weird that in two years I have never seen. "where you live. "It's getting to the point. "where I feel like you have something hide. "I need to see your house today. "This is important to me. "If you can't do that, "I don't think I'm comfortable continuing this relationship. "And then if he doesn't take you to his house, "you show up at Stephanie's front door and say, "'Hey, this is really weird,

"'but please hear me out for a minute.'". - Yep. - "How do you and Tim know each other? "And if she says anything other than 'we broke up,'. "like we're dating, why, or uh, he's my husband, "you tell her everything.". Someone said, "It's actually easier to tell. "if a very private person truly cares about you. "because they bring you closer into their life. "than they do others. "This guy hasn't brought you into his life at all.". Someone said, "Even if he wasn't with another woman, "which he probably is, I would not be happy knowing. "that for two years he has not allowed you to see. "where he lives or meet his friends or family.

"That's not normal. "That's what you do when you don't want anyone. "to know about your relationship. "That either means he's cheating with you. "or he is embarrassed by you. "Neither of those is acceptable.". Yeah, I think none of this behavior should be tolerated, even if he's not cheating. - Yeah. - It's like, this is not going anywhere though. Update. (Chanse squeals). - Yes, Shayne! - You looked so sad. - We got, yeah. - I really needed to know. - It's like the worst when you're like so excited. for an update and he goes, "Comments.".

- Yeah. - Comments. Do you have predictions? - He's married. - He's gotta be married. - Oh. God. (crew laughs). - Oof. "As many people suggested I do, "I started with a conversation with Tim. "where I made very, very clear. "how much the whole situation bothered me. "and why it was an issue for me. "I tried to show him things from my perspective. "and tried to make him understand why I was so upset. "He said he understood and apologized profusely.

"He cried and I cried. "He said it was never his intention to hurt me. "and that he hadn't realized this had been. "such a large issue for me. "and that he had been selfish about it. "He said it was all going to change. "and that I would meet his friends. "and see where he's staying. "and get to Skype with his family, et cetera, et cetera.". - Oh. - "He said I was the most important part of his life here. "and that he can't imagine his life without me in it. "He said he wants to find an apartment. "for us to live together, "and that when I'm done with school, "he wants to go back home together for good. "He also told me that the girl in the pictures. "was an old family friend and that he was in the obituary.

"because he still is close with the family. "and they still wish I was part of the family. "I decided to wait. "and see if he actually held up his end of things this time, "and so we made up and all was well. "What I didn't mention is that during my snooping phase. "before this conversation, I found the phone number. "to the landline where Stephanie lives. "and decided to give it a call asking for Tim.". - Landline. 2015. - "Stephanie's dad answered, "and when I asked for Tim, he told me to call his cell phone. "because this was the landline, so not exactly helpful.

"Before you guys freak out about the dad thing, "the house is like a duplex. "where the parents have their own half. "and Stephanie has her own half. "This is not uncommon in small villages here.". - Okay. Okay. - "A couple days after Tim and I talked, "he texted me asking if I had called Stephanie's house. "asking for him. "I decided not to lie and admitted it. "He said that she texted him saying that some girl. "with an accent had called the house asking for him, "and he immediately thought that it must have been me. "I explained that I did it.

"because I felt desperate for answers. "and just wanted to know what was going on. "I also told him that it was inconclusive. "He got very upset and said I had betrayed his trust. "and that I was acting like an insane person. "He isn't exactly wrong about that part. "But I explained that I felt forced to take such actions. "because I felt like I was never going to get any answers. "any other way. "I apologized for the invasion of privacy. "and for bothering Stephanie and her family. "After a few days, he calmed down and forgave me, "saying, however, that this may push back. "meeting his friends because he told them what happened.

"and they were pissed that I would treat him that way.". - No. No. - "I waited a few weeks to see if anything would change, "and unsurprisingly it did not. "So this past weekend, he got very drunk one night. "and I was able to open his phone. "with his fingerprint while he was sleeping.". - No. The home button. The home button. - Let's go! Let's open it! Check his phone! Check his phone! - Check his phone! Check his phone! - Check his phone! - Okay. "I found texts from Stephanie from the day before.

"talking about what they should make for dinner that night. "He told me he was out of town for work that night. "I found lots of hearts and I love yous. "and even him using the same pet names for her. "as he does for me.". - No! Not the pet names, Shayne. - Disgusting. That's disgusting. Everyone needs to take a cold shower. I hate it. - "He told her he was going out of town this weekend. "for work and how much he'd missed her. "I looked through the past few weeks of messages.

"between them and saw that he had sent her quite a few. "of the same pictures that he had sent me. "He had invited her to have a glass of wine. "with his buddy and her girlfriend. "He picked her up from work multiple times, "and there were lots of conversations. "about who was making dinner that night. "and what they should eat. "I went back and looked for dates. "where I knew he had slept over with me, "and he had always told her he was crashing. "at a friend's place or out of town for work. "or something along those lines. "I also found a group text message titled family. "that included Tim, his sister, his mom, and Stephanie.

"I looked at pictures of Stephanie that she had sent him. "and was able to very obviously see. "that it was her in the pictures that I found on Facebook. "So you guys were right. "For the last two years he's been living with her. "and seeing me on the side.". - Oh. - "All the while telling me how much he loves and admires me. "and how we're going to have a future together. "I have been duped and taken advantage of, "and I feel like a complete idiot because of it. "I haven't talked to him yet, "but when he comes over later in the week, "I plan to tell him that I know everything. "I also plan to tell him that he's a complete asshole.

"In my ideal conversation, "he'd explain to me why he did this. "and what the (beep) he was thinking during all this, "but I'm pretty sure those are just things. "that I'll never know or understand. "Obviously, I will break up with him. "I also plan on contacting Stephanie. "with a letter telling my side of the story. "I will give her dates. "that I know he spent the night with me. "so that she can crosscheck them with dates. "that he did not come home. "I also plan to include a USB stick. "with pictures of Tim and me from the last two years. "and screenshots of some of our conversations. "from the last couple months.". - USB stick. 2015. - Yeah. - "I can't make her believe me,

"but I want to at least do my best for her. "I feel like I owe it to her as a fellow human being. "to let her know what kind of man she's been with. "for the last four years. "I am open to absolutely any advice on my plan. "and on how to move forward from this. "I won't lie, I feel so lost and so helpless right now. "By breaking up with Tim, I'm losing a huge part of my life. "in this country, "and I'm definitely going to be feeling this whole. "for a while, so any help is appreciated. "Thank you guys so much for listening. "and sorry, this is long as (beep). "I got carried away.". - No, you didn't, girl. We want more.

- He got carried away, girl. - Yeah. - For two years. - Obituary! - When you get the flip side, 'cause you're like, oh, he's being so disrespectful to you, and then you get the flip side of like, oh, and you're also being so disrespectful to someone else. - Yes. - Like, ah. You like, oh, I now know you're so bad. And then you get the like, oh, and you're even worse than that. - You're double bad. - You're double bad. Update number two. - I need to know what happens. - "So I took your advice.

"and did not try to have a conversation with Tim.". - Oh. - I think that's good. I was like, you need to contact Stephanie first. - No, wait, why is, oh, Stephanie first. - Don't trust him. - Stephanie first 'cause there's no mending this, right? And I don't think you owe him respect. - And you need to get on the same page with Stephanie. - Stephanie first. - [Shayne] Yeah. (crew laughs). - It's Stephanie first. Pack your bag second. Gun later. No. (everyone laughs). - [Crew] How to get away with-. - Murder later. 'Cause you can't trust him at all, right? - No! - So if you tell him first, you don't know what he's gonna do.

- You can pack your bags in the night. - [Shayne] It becomes a race-. - He's well-versed in-. - Manipulation. Yes. He's Loki. - He's untagging every photo. - "I realized that since he was so successfully able. "to manipulate me for two years, "having one last conversation with him was bound to end up. "with me doubting my findings and perhaps my sanity. "I wrote Stephanie a three page letter. "detailing the relationship that Tim and I have had. "over the past two years, "making clear that it was serious and not just a fling. "I mentioned dates and events. "that most people would not have known about,

"and I included the intricate lies. "and backstory that he had told me. "I included a list of dates from the last two months. "that he spent the night with me. "and encouraged her to crosscheck them. "with nights that he wasn't at home. "I printed out a few photos of us as a quick visible proof, "and I included the rest of the photos on a USB stick. "in the letter. "The stick also contains screenshots. "of any particularly incriminating conversations. "that we've had over the last few months. "I scanned postcards. "that he had sent me from various vacations. "and included those as well. "For safe measure, I also included a copy of the letter. "in case the hard copy went somehow mysteriously missing.

"I gave her my email address and phone number. "and asked her to contact me if she wanted to. "On Wednesday night, "I had someone drive me to where she lives. "If Tim was there, I would just have confirmations. "that he actually lives there and we'd leave. "If he wasn't there, I'd ring the doorbell. "and hand her the letter personally.". - Yes. - "We drove the 45 kilometers, "and Tim was sitting there in the living room on his laptop. "It was obvious he lived there. "She was nowhere to be seen. "His and her names were on the mailbox. "I called to see if he'd pick up and he ignored the call.".

- On the mailbox? Why didn't you go before if you were so suspicious? Not to put the blame on the victim, but just go, look. - She trusted him. - That's (beep). - "On Thursday morning, I mailed the letter. "I ensured that it was registered post. "In order to receive the letter, "she'd have to show her ID and sign for it. "On Friday, the letter arrived. "She was not home, so she received a notification. "to go pick the letter up at the post office. "On Saturday morning, "she picked it up and I got an email of the receipt. "with her signature on it. "Throughout all of this, I conversed normally with Tim.

"and made excuses as to why he couldn't come over. "during the week, so as to not tip him off to anything. "He stopped talking to me about 20 minutes. "after she picked up the letter Saturday morning, "and I have not heard from him since. "He has, however, defriended me and my family on Facebook. "I have not heard from Stephanie either. "So now it's really over. "I hope with all my heart that he was not able to lie. "and manipulate his way outta the situation with her, "but I will probably never know. "I do not expect to hear from him again. "I feel very lonely, taken advantage of, and beaten down.". - Yeah. - "I'm going to do my best.

"to try to come out of this situation without trust issues. "and without being cynical and jaded. "I am seeking therapy. "to make sure I don't slip into depression. "For now, I need to find ways to distract myself. "and fill up any free time.". - Rat! - Rat! Rat! - Rat! - Hopefully she's doing well now. It's been 10 years, so she's hopefully in a completely different place in life. and way better. - I'm upset that Stephanie didn't even reach out. - I know.

- I know it's a lot, but like give the girl, give the poor girl some closure. - I know. But OP did everything she could. - The signing of the letter was brilliant. Like, to make sure-. - Yes. - That was sick as hell. - That's a good way to do it. It's a good way to do it, and I guess you can do it in a way. that you don't give too much of your information, like socials or whatever, but she's gonna find that. She can. I mean, she did everything she could. - Yeah. 20 minutes after the letter signing is when he stopped. Like, I'm picturing they were texting all day, and then 20 minutes he just stops responding.

- Just defriended her. - I defriended her on Facebook. - That has to be a really heartbreaking. because she knows he's cheating on her. He knows that he's married. But to just be like, oh, and he just is in a blip. - He can't even own up to it. - He's gone. But it's like, oh, this was never anything for him. - That's the hardest. - Like, you know what I mean? Like, to be fully just ghosted, gone. - Yeah. - It's like, oh, he didn't care about you. - Yeah. - I feel really, really bad for her. But there is also the aspect of like, hey, you're really young. People go through these types of situations.

You're not the only person to be tricked like this, to be manipulated like this. That is a very common experience actually. And to learn so much from it at 21, like I would have a hard time believing someone's. gonna be able to pull something like this on her again. - Yeah. - You know, hopefully she's grown from it. - Yeah. - You know? Hopefully she's now a very strong, powerful, awesome 30-year-old. - Hell yeah.

- But anyways, thank you both for being here. - There's not another update? - Not another update. - Healing is the update. - Healing is the update. (crew laughs). But thank you both for hanging with me. - Thanks for having us. - Yeah. And thank you all for watching. Let us know what other themes and subreddits you want us. to cover on this show, and we will see you next Saturday. Goodbye. - Okay, do it now. - No! (Shayne laughs). It's honestly, take your pancakes out and check his phone. - Check his phone.

I can't condone that. (laughs).