Yeonmi Park - Escaping the Horrors of North Korea & the Kim Dynasty | SRS #54

hey everybody my next guest has one of. the most horrific stories from one of. the most horrific places on the planet. that's North Korea. she escaped North Korea she was sold. into the Chinese sex trade. Escape that then came to America. now. she's spreading the word on what it's. like living in communism. and showing us the signs that we need to.

be aware of in case it winds up on our. doorstep. so pay attention. please like. subscribe. comment below. head over to Apple podcast and Spotify. leave us a review. ladies and gentlemen without further ado. please welcome yonmi Park to the Sean. Ryan Show. thank you. [Music].

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Park welcome to the Sean Ryan Show I'm. happy to be here it is an honor to have. you here I've spent. a lot of time listening to a lot of your. different interviews and man you have so. many. phenomenal interviews I think the one. that sticks out the most with for me is. Megan Kelly's I listen to Megan Kelly's. recently okay and um man you guys had a. a very good in-depth conversation and um.

I can't wait to have that conversation. here so just a little bit about you. um you fled the most oppressive isolated. controlled country in the in the entire. world in 2007 that country being North. Korea you've offered two books in order. to live in the latest one while time. remains which while time remains seems. like it's maybe a warning to the. Americans on what might be coming. [Music].

and now you bring awareness and educate. people uh all over the world about. the oppression that happens in North. Korea in your journey to the United. States and you're also a YouTuber who. just did one million subscribers. congratulations I know that's no easy. task and um and um yeah so every guest. starts out with a gift so oh wow. thank you so much oh gummy bears a.

little something for the ride home oh. thank you I love those you're welcome. you're welcome thank you but. um your story there's just there are so. many different parts to it um from your. upgrade upbringing and how you grew up. in North Korea it sounds like you grew. up in a wealthy family in North Korea. which I can't wait to dive into what a. wealthy family looks like compared to. her in the U.S but I'd kind of like to. start with your upbringing and obviously.

talk about the oppression and how the. regime in North Korea controls the. people. um and then I would really like to get. in detail uh in the trafficking portion. and what you dealt with in China. um and then kind of wrap it up with. with the similarities that you see here. in the United States maybe they're. starting to happen or maybe they've been. happening for a while. um compared to some of the stuff that.

you saw in North Korea does that sound. good yeah all right so let's just start. with your upbringing what what is a. wealthy family in North Korea what is. daily life for a wealthy family. yeah I'd say. how do we begin so even though North. Korea started in the idea of complete. equality of outcomes right nobody will. be poor nobody will be rich but regime.

based on that idea initially and. eventually divided people into 51. different classes. and a lot of times we kind of assume. like are we in the middle or in the. bottom or in the top but I was maybe. going to some like summer upper middle. class okay because my father was a party. member but the thing is there are like. six million party members in North Korea. and in the population of 21 22 million. at the time so it wasn't the most.

special thing. but still like better than other people. and this is where I think sorry I don't. know. um. so lifestyle right it's a. I never snow shower in my life. wow because we don't even have the word. for shower. we don't have a technology to heat up.

the water we don't have running water so. we still had to go in the river brindle. all in the wall or you know stream water. home and we don't have indoor bathroom. we have to go outside to do the business. we don't have you know a machine to wash. our clothes so it was my job to go to. the river and my sister to wash our. clothes. and but you know the fact that we are. not dying from starvation in the 90s. that means worthy because that means.

wealthy yeah though all the actual poor. ones died in the 90s it was wow so. what so what is the. let's go back to the 51 classes yeah how. are those 51 classes broken up is it. poor to rich or is it. is it is it race how what is it so. Norwich score is a homogeneous country. we are like same genetics same people. same culture same language there's not.

no diversity in that the only tribes. know different areas everybody's just. Korean okay yeah we were the same Korea. with the South Korea we had a 5 000. years of shared history same country as. the same country so that's uni uh what. was based upon from that division was I. think something similar to right now. America is why your ancestors did. that their royalty towards the party's. ideology. so it's not about individuals choice you.

cannot join another class uh basically. when kimerson came into power in the. middle 40s and the 1950s that's when he. came and then realized okay who was a. landowner who was a capitalist who was. an intellectual you know who would say a. farmer and based on their status their. children status get determined forever. and that's how they say when I was born.

the country my great great grandfather. handled some land in his yard and they. said I had the oppressor genes. and my blood was tainted because of his. actions. wow so that's how your status determines. in a way that America will divide People. based on race in North Korea they do. that based on the I think ideology what. people back then believed in okay. so you're so your grandpa owned land did. they just take the land from them yeah.

so that was my mother's side okay and my. father's side was better so that's why. my father was becoming a part it became. a party member and my mother said I. think they weren't. wow yeah how do they how do they. confiscate. do you know how they confiscate the land. do you remember or were you too young or. so it was just stories we hear right. it's a in the 50s they had a land reform. and that was when the regime was.

promising to North Korean people that we. are going to abolish poverty and. inequality in any forms we are going to. be all equally doing what everything is. going to be taken care of by the. government everything will be free. health care is going to be free housing. is going to be free the food is going to. be free everything is going to be free. nobody can ever trade anything but. nobody can ever own anything. they abolish the private property so. nobody can own a home they can own a cow.

they can own a car they can own a house. they cannot own anything. so but the thing is at the time North. Koreans actually believes that that was. a paradise such as Paradise right is we. are equally doing all that so for that. little people gave everything to the. regime at the time and there was not. much of a battle between the people. giving that to the regime and the people. some people who did not disagree they. get executed obviously there are three.

generations get executed along with the. people who rebound against us I read. this I saw this in a so also in my. research I watched some documentaries on. North Korea that way some of your story. was still surprising to me so one of the. things that I saw was. that. if you go against the state or if you. commit a crime or if you vote the wrong. way then you'll be imprisoned what I. what I then what came was that there are.

the three generation punishment so if I. voted against the state. I would go to prison my son would go to. prison. and if he had a son or a daughter then. they would be born in prison and spend. the life the rest of their life in. prison because their blood is guilty. blood is that is that. is that across the board over there no. matter what the crime is or is there a. severity or yeah so you know wait. there's no way you can vote wrong way.

because North Korea election only has. one person on the ballot. and it's a open like girls standing. there watching you and there's only one. choice on the ballot so it's you cannot. wrong with this like you cannot vote for. a different person okay it's a joke. right it's always a show but if you. start something against the party like. okay I don't believe in communism then. you of course get cared you get executed. obviously for that but then your parents.

your sister's Brothers your children. your grandchildren and up to sometimes. eight Generations eight Generations so. even the in-laws gets arrested. so your wives their family the in-laws. get go together with you. just for disagreeing with the with the. with the state yeah so uh one person. that I know in South Korea he was born. he went to program prison camp when he.

was eight years old. and the very first thing when you're. arresting go to political prison camp is. that you can ask why you're there. cannot ask why you're there that's you. get executed. so nobody knows why they end up in the. prison and then for him he learned it. many years later that his grandfather a. long time before one day he was drink. getting drinks with his friend and then.

under the article influence he somehow. showed a disagreement to the party's. line. but later that friend remembered that. saying and then reported the police. that's why he said during while they're. getting a drink. so he ended in prison camp but he could. not ask the regime why did I get here. so most people don't know why they enter. in the prison camp is there any way to. get out of it. no you're in there for life there's one.

sentence and that's a life sentence and. most of them don't last more than three. months usually you die from the. exhaustion and torture so because the. nursing meets these people they do a lot. of chemical tests on them because they. are developing bio weapons and then. they're doing so much nuclear tests they. need to help people need people to clean. those debris. oh so they need this labor. so they use the they use the prison life.

yeah so they're doing so they're. torturing. they're doing experiments and they're. using them to clean up nuclear degrees. which is. huge exposure to radiation which will. obviously kill you yeah what kind of. experiments are they. are they. many different experiments a like even. during the nuts Germany they test on. different gas. uh they test on different like.

injections because they develop a lot of. poisons because that they commit a lot. of uh assassin attempts right they. killed their brother in Malaysia with. those poisons so they test on different. poison how it cares or not. and they even just cut off their organs. and like body tissues to check you know. how to study some medicine so they can. make the dictator do literally forever. so there's more than ten thousand. doctors and dedicated North Korea to.

find a way to make Kim sleep forever. so in this study they need a lot of. inmates. so they they take them and play with. their organs and see what helps to make. the decorative forever. he wants to live forever yeah so that's. the that's the big experiment yeah it's. a chord like the. eternal life uh Research Institute that. has like 10 000 doctors just all day.

long they are studying that how they can. make the dictator live forever. what are the doctors. what do the doctors think about the. dictator. you can't think about it North Korea if. even your doctors don't get paid the one. dollar salary each month you're a slave. you don't choose to become a doctor they. tell you to become a doctor yeah so it's. it's there's no way you can have an. opinion for anything there what so so. back to the prison camps they have a. three-month life expectancy on average.

yeah if they're going to let's say you. get a sentence where they're going to. execute you and you you don't even know. what you're being executed for yeah how. long are you is it like America where. you're on death row or do they just. get it done immediately. it's it depends when they want to make a. case out of you like I want to create a. fear to the people so when Kim Jong-un. killed his own uncle. remember when he came into power and. then he won the arrest his uncle.

publicly. basically what he did was a. he made sure all the officials in. Pyongyang come. and put him in the center and then you. use aircraft gun to shoot him Not Just. Guns so when you shoot somebody like. that you become little like pieces of. meat your body just gets exploded and. then he would let the dogs to eat his. body and officials would like faint and. pee in their pants.

and that's how he touched them this is. what happens if you. do not be royal to you to me. so some executions are just throwing. stones so they put their family members. put them in the first row and then like. throw the Rock at your family your wife. your child. so the last thing you see leaving this. world is seeing your child your husband. throwing rocket in to kill you. oh man they they make sure the families.

denounce the person first. wow are these public. because. I never seen the throwing the rock but I. heard that's what they did inside the. Concentration Camp so they inside the. concentration they make sure the Sun and. mother like they stand in the front Road. and do that and other people should. throw the rock because Kim Jong-un. even the bullets are too precious to. kill these people so you should just use. rocks to cure them.

wow yeah and then but shooting is. usually the public execution that. general public goes to watch okay does. the general public enjoy this no it's. mandatory it's mandatory children needs. to go watch it like even you're two. years old if you are when you go see the. public execution the sitting is based. upon how young you are as in if you're. the youngest you sit in the front law. because you're the shortest so adults. goes to back row but those adults have.

seen this in their kit so they put the. children in the front and then bigger. children the behind and Outdoors in the. back. and then they see people getting. executed how often does this happen. it's there's some seasonal it's like uh. several times a year I'm sure minimum. but sometimes like very often because. those are times where they say showcase. time where they it's like tightening the. bear like really trying to raise the.

field level as much as they can. so those times are constantly shooting. and then sometimes like off and then. regime think okay we need to do this. again and comment you more. how many executions per session. so eight depending on the case Okay so. sometimes like the cases were like these. people were hung so one of the execution.

my mom saw was a this young man in a. collective Farm was dying from TV turbo. Turbo courses tuberculosis and then he. uh butchered the collective forms cow. and then he ate the car because she was. dying from the malnutrition anyway so. they were executing him in the. marketplace just him. and well the executions I saw was a my. friend actually mother she she. distributed the Hollywood movie.

so she watched the Hollywood movie and. then gave it to her friends. and in North Korea that's a crime you. cannot watch Hollywood movies. you cannot watch a Hollywood that's an. executable offense if you ever read a. Bible That's execution you if you ever. watch a porn that's execution if you. ever watched a Hollywood movie and. distributed that's execution. and I mean the executions are like this. there's a every front page of North.

Korean paper has a Kim's portraits and. then you didn't see the page it's a. backwards they ripped it that's how you. go to Portugal prison camp. wow those are the crimes that we talk. about in North Korea as a crime. even if you I saw even if you fold a. paper and you fold yeah you fold the. photo of you cannot you cannot put other. things on top of it either you need to. you need to pretend this photo is the. actual the leader right and every home.

in North Korea we have the portraits of. dictators. so when the if the fire caught in the. house the father's first thing they have. to protect is the portraits not their. children not their for life because if. the portrait gets damaged then the three. generation is going to be punished in. that family. so there are so many Heroes that we. learn like who somebody was like die. with his own body protecting the. portrait. and that is the most honorable death you.

can do in North Korea is dying for the. leader is The Honorable death. they teach you to do that. speaking of religion since we're on the. on the topic of. the concentration camps what you can go. to prison for your religion there as. well correct so they Round Up Christians. because Christianity. is that. a common underground religion there you. don't know if it's the most persecutive.

religion in the world I mean in North. Korea list so I did not even know it. didn't know the word she just saw like I. did not know what that was until I got. out are you religious now I am no you. are but in I think I later met no other. fellow North Korean defectors who were. Christians who are in the underground so. I was. really uh surprising to me because none. of these people can own a Bible right so.

if there are two are people in a team. then they say okay you remember sums you. remember this part of Bible. and his grandma taught him all the. entire one part of Bible to him verbally. so that knowledge wouldn't get lost. because that is the only way you can. maintain the Bible in North Korea so she. was reciting an entire thing word by. word. and I was like how is that possible. because this is my grandma told me so I.

that's how Christians are believing. their faith by just memorizing because. there's no way you can have the Bible. and if you get caught death it's a death. penalty yeah is every death if you get. caught doing anything is it. automatically three generations that are. going to be punished it's a political. crime so my father's crime was economic. crime because he was selling medals he. was Trading. he was not committing anything political.

he was not saying the party is bad right. he was not doing anything like that so. that's why I didn't go to prison with my. father okay he was only sentence by. himself for like 10 years but still my. not cast went lower I could not marry. somebody who is in a better class I. could not imagine going to University. like I couldn't do that but political. crimes then your family do go with you. for sure oh God man that is horrible.

what about let's talk about some of the. child labor that's happening over there. what age. our kids our kids forced to work. any age. like as. as preschool. that they they teach you that you're a. revolutionaries you are not charged. so. when we go to school that we pack our.

work clothes with us. so I was even five years old we packed. our work clothes and then we go to. school we learn about okay we need to do. 500 hours of each dictator about their. how great they are the propaganda right. how amazing the leaders are how great. our party is and those lessons are in. the morning. and then lunchtime didn't feed you of. course if if the family couldn't afford. to make your bento box then the child.

gonna just not eating lunch that day and. then their lunch period is over then. that's when you have to work so they say. depending on the season they send you a. collective form to plant the seed in the. spring the summer time we don't have. machines like if it's in the farm. there's like a lot of other plants grow. that takes the crap away right so we. have to ourselves take those like other. plants away. and then in the fall we need to help the.

farmers to harvest. that's what we need to do and then in. the winter we need to have the farmers. collect fishes as a fertilizer. so entire winter time my job was looking. for like literally poopoo everywhere. because we have a quora to submit. otherwise we get punished. I read that the the. food shortage the starvation that's. happening over there it's so bad that it.

that they are now using now they're. using human feces. to fertilize the soil for. but it was always having that's always. that way that's why North Koreans always. have tons of a like worms inside them. so one of the de facto Soldier was. crossing bnz and then the South Korean. doctors opened him up I mean they could. not believe like meters you can see on. the CNN meters of meters of worms in. North Korean people's body it's very.

common I mean I had tons of worms there. because the food grows from this. so that's our children's job and other. job what are you eating over there we. eat. depends right like uh in the summer time. we do eat more plants but the thing is. after. June 1st like the end of May a lot of. plants become poisonous so until then. poison is not as high so you can pretty.

much eat any plants if we want even. three leaves are fine but after June 1st. you have to be a lot careful one. mushroom that we pick up you know what. plants we eat. uh we eat a lot of in the fall we eat a. lot of grasshoppers. and a lot of bugs and then. in the winter is the time when we a lot. of it frozen you know potatoes. or a dried cabbage like that. and spring is where we die it's okay we.

call Spring is a season of death it is. because right before the Anything Grows. in nature and winter time all our stocks. gone. and it's hard to find even any one. single rat to eat in the spring. does any it sounds like all of the food. comes from what you grow or what you. catch talk about eating eating insects. does the state provide any food right.

you cannot grow them because we cannot. own a Land. the land is a countries right the. regimes it's a collective form so we are. forced to work in a collective Farm all. year like like 10 hours a day minimum. then when the Harvest comes what they do. they come and take all the Harvest away. they don't give it to the farmers. they give you maybe a little bit of like. potatoes and then what they do is like. this is a royalty grain so you need to.

submit. this grain to the government to show you. roll your calories you get punished. so this is thing called the royalty. grain that we always have to give it to. the regime despite we don't have. anything. and the regime determines that they. decided somehow it's easy to do. socialism and there are less people. and it's easy to control the population. when they're starving because as a North. Korean all that you are thinking about. this how I'm gonna find the next meal.

if you make one day you're gonna even. not knowing if you're gonna make it. tomorrow right so you're constantly just. thinking about only finding food and. surviving then regime knows that they. don't need to worry about us because we. are not gonna think about starting. Revolution. I mean it makes a lot of sense moving. into we'll get back to the ways of life. um but. moving into how they control the people. since you brought it up you know. starvation was number one on my list I.

thought that was very obvious I I read. that the population of North Korea is so. malnourished that they. have basically changed their genetic. code and they are now five inches on. average shorter than South Koreans is. that is that true yeah it's like North. Koreans if now I come to America like I. cannot gain weight. because just our systems didn't fully. develop right when you need to eat the.

proper nutrients to develop and develop. your organs to process things we didn't. get to do that so. it's interesting in South Korea like the. grandchildren are much taller than their. grandparents North Korea is a complete. opposite each generation will get. shorter and shorter oh wow and it's a. that's why you carry the mark of. starvation for the rest of your life it. doesn't just like oh now you're not. starting you can become normal person it.

doesn't happen that way most of North. Koreans carry that scar. foreign. let's talk about we talked about. starvation we've talked about the prison. camps the three generations these are. all ways to control the population and. oppress them let's talk about the. propaganda portion right how many what's. your internet like what is your TV. stations like let's start with internet. we don't know what internet is. and we don't have electricity.

so even I'm sure the interview cannot. use it right without electricity we have. a one channel on TV. and even that channel is not free. broadcasting it's all government. propaganda but even if there's a one. channel we cannot watch you the. electricity anyway. so there's no other information people. are not even free to move to next town. you cannot do a sleepover in North Korea. you need to go tell the authority and. get authorization to sleep in your. friend's house.

in the middle of night the regime in the. guard and just like open your door and. come in see if somebody outside your. family is sleeping in there. if there is then that's a crime you get. punished for that now freedom of. movement no freedom of speech no freedom. of religion or anything. so we are completely isolated and that's. what I was saying when I was in North. Korea I did not know that I was. oppressed. you know I did not know I was living in. a Hermit Kingdom.

because not knowing is actually to. oppression. and I wrote about this in my new book. it's like there are two types of. dictatorships. one is physical dictatorship as I said. you know physically you are not like. allowed to your jeans allowed to have. certain haircuts or listen to music. watch TV but second one is about North. Korea not Germany it's like dictatorship. of the Mind. you could they control what you think. and I think that's what North Korea did. such a perfect job than any other.

countries ever have ever done in human. history. that they brainwashed me to the point. where I thought that my dear leader. could read my mind. I was afraid to think. I could not think that even in my mind. that he was make he was not a god. and how they did that was that they. copied the Bible. so they said you know God would give. give me your son loved us so much he.

gave us his son Kim Jong his body dies. but he's busy with us forever. that's how he can read my thoughts knows. how much hair on my head and when we die. We join him in this paradise for the. rest of our lives. so North Korea is one of the 10. religions in the world it's a religious. court it's not just a normal. dictatorship. it's another thing in order so you.

cannot do a public survey you cannot go. do you believe the propaganda I mean if. nobody gonna say that so it's like. living in North Korea it's like living a. tremendous show nobody is telling you. what's happening the only truth you know. is who you are because nobody even I. mean the first thing my mom's told me. young as a young girl was I don't even. whisper because the birds and mice could. hear me. they said do not even trust your own. back because we never knew who who was a.

spy was. There Was Always by listening somewhere. so it was just better not to even say. anything and even better not to think. that's how you survive North Korea. how do you control your thoughts how do. you keep. how do you keep the. the thoughts that you think you're going. to be punished for out of your head. that's the interesting thing is like you. think somehow humans are capable of. thinking by themselves. but we don't learn how to think in North.

Korea like thinking was exhausting I. remember going to South Korea for the. first time that I had to think for. myself like even what I'm gonna wear. that day it gave me so much headache. because in North Korea that was excited. for me what what clothes I can wear what. haircut I can get it was decided. so in Nursery we don't know what. critical thinking is nobody learned the. concept that you can think other way. so in some sense we are.

just all none. I think I just remember being in North. Korea just being known it wasn't. it wasn't hard I think for the first. time thinking was very exhausting for me. at least. interesting so in this. it's it's it's. I've been a lot of places throughout my. career and I've never seen anything. like what you're describing. and it's if it's hard for me to. understand I think it's extremely hard. for anybody who's who's not.

well traveled or or you know what I'm. getting at but just. so what you're describing is a country. that's encompassed with. everybody nobody has any idea what is. outside of that border so they. I mean there's no clues there's no. nothing like. about how Americans live or how.

Europeans live or Canadians or in or. Australians are anywhere in the Free. World there's no sign like people have. no idea that that even exists right so. it's like a again North Korea for. instance I never knew the map I did not. see the map of the world. they did not even teach me that I'm. Asian. they said that I'm a kimerson race my. dear leaders race. the North Korean calendar begins when. kimerson was born. we have our own time zone.

and it's like a I keep saying that like. I come from different planets. we actually know more about Mars. and the other planets but we cannot even. imagine what in the far away Galaxy land. is there some Planet you cannot even. fathom where life would be like there. It's like because we don't know the name. we've never seen it we never heard about. it like for North Koreans I mean what is. Tennessee I mean right what's white you.

know what is a Internet it's a they. don't have the vocabulary they've never. seen it the only pictures that I saw. about Americans or the school posters. that preparing the department Drew about. Americans who are. called the bloody laptop wrap tires who. have horns who are monsters eating all. children torturing our women. that is the only my image of American. because I cannot go into and look up. what American looks like.

so. in North Korea could do that because. they completely isolated the con I mean. you can go to I think we might be able. to go to Moon before we be able to go to. North Korea nobody is allowed to go. there and explore right nobody knows can. come out. it is the most I solo the country. in the world right now so. I think that's why they were able to do. that. what kind of stuff did they display on. the TV.

TV's uh the good thing is the regime is. very poor they cannot make the new. propaganda materials so the same. revolutionary TV so under Japanese under. like American imperialism how our great. soldiers on the leadership of kimira. song that we are fighting our enemies. and bringing the Liberation to our. people. that kind of things every day we watch. you know and keep reminding it what an. amazing thing that Social Service.

Revolution was when there were times of. greedy-gritty capitalists they would. like torture our children not look at us. anybody who can go to school. even though we when you go to school. with your brainwashing we get like. forced labor you know forced to work. they still say that's better than living. under the capitalism landlords. oh my gosh. um.

when it comes to controlling the people. there's also. you kind of you touched on it where they. control. emotions. how do they control your emotions you're. not allowed to smile you're not allowed. to laugh what else are you not allowed. to do. star was a thing I used to like try to. understand. um. whenever I even my Escape even the. beginning of my time when I came to.

America even though in my head is so. fully logically understood that kimira. song was a bad dictator he was merciless. man who was killing people but whenever. there's a beautiful propaganda portrait. of him in a gigantic smile where his. most beloved leader the only thing he. does is are loving his people. and our father Our God right then just. automatically your heart just warms up. then the eulogy has kicking afterwards.

like oh my God like what am I even. thinking this is like or fake drawing. obviously he doesn't smile like that. it's a try to make you feel that way and. then whenever we see this portrait there. was always music somebody was most. dramatic way of you know saying how dear. leader is so selfless being that all he. does is trying to fight for the good of. the people. and so.

it really happens first thing and we do. is like do we need to say how to thank. the dictator before we eat we need to go. buy in front of our portrait dear leader. thank you so much for the food you know. and the school teachers say at school. the most important thing to you is not. your parents not your biological parents. it's your Our Father who is Kim your son. and Kim Jong. so as a child you learn like the first. thing teachers teach you that that's the. most important thing in the world.

and like dying for the regime is the. best thing you can ever do and they keep. showing these hero movies how they give. all their own body and take the bullets. for the revolution of our country and. then making us to recite those poems and. the six songs like songs like nothing to. Envy because we live in the social. Paradise we have nothing to Envy right. then eventually you somehow believe it. even though your real life is seeing.

people dead on the streets you know. every day that's what you see North. Korea but you still somehow have this. pride and gratitude for the dictator. it is mind control to the fullest. capacity yeah what kind of so. dead bodies just. it's not just the bodies it's a. I mean when people die from starvation. and they go through many phases they. don't you just don't die it's like I'm.

gonna stop I'm gonna die you know. there's a phase of hallucination there. is a phases of crazy they just lost. their mind they started laughing you. know it's just. [Music]. they just like just lost everything. and then the last face you say. everything opens up your body like here.

just everything opens up. and your organs comes off because. nothing can hold it together. and then just you make this. sounds that like. to make and but till that moment you. used to beg for food. and these are the signs you hear every. day. but when you live in the country don't. feel anything for that because. it's every day you know every corner. there's children who does that a father.

who does that and your family who does. that so. this is like daily life but at school we. still have to sing songs like we have. nothing to envy. because we live in the best country. a lot of that Avenue yeah I'd say it's. just face and you just all casually say. oh no he's in the face too. okay you're a sister far away you're. just sit in the face one you know like.

we we've seen the face of a lot of death. from starvation that I could just. can't tell and it's not like we say it. out of any sympathy it's just you become. just numb. you know do you did you ever reach any. of those phases. I think for me. among all these things. he thinks that I remember was about the. young boy your man's all the organs just.

come out of his back and. the dog was waiting for him to die and. eat his organ right and all the Flies. all over him. but he understood making his noise and I. was wondering how can he make any sounds. and the last person I remember saying. was right before my Escape was a in the. hospital. there's like tires of human bodies and. the hospital just like put them there. and there's a bathroom right next to it. I had to go through that just go to.

bathroom every day. and there's on top of all these human. bodies as a woman was laying there. in some flower pattern pants. but when you're dead you're not a human. you just you're empty beyond anything I. just empty. but she looked way more empty because. her eyes out her mouth was open because. the rats. ate her eyes first.

and. I was looking at this like you know it's. like what it means even even human it. just means nothing it. I think somehow that scene comes back to. my dream maybe that's the last thing I. saw in North Korea maybe that's why I. cannot forget. but it's a. yeah there's a lot of those say the. human life means nothing there. the family.

I'll get to that in a minute. so as far as controlling the people we. have starvation propaganda punishment. which is the prisons controlling. emotions executions. have we missed anything. uh any strategies to control the people. as I said about making people criticize. each other so it's like a. making people distrust each other. breaking the the bond of trust between.

your family between your children so. first thing that they read the regime. did they got rid of the word love. or Romans that we cannot live for love. we have to live for the revolutional. party. so the parents cannot tell their. children that they love their children. we don't tell our parents that we love. them spouses don't tell each other they. love each other it's not a concept we. don't have the word for a friend. I call my classmate comrade.

commership and friendship is a very. different thing because when you're. comrade you fight for the revolution. you're not being off to individual. friends. and then even at nine years old every. Saturday if you're artist or somebody. Authority you have to do it every two. days. we have to come entire class come. together and then we have to repent our. sin for that week say you know I was not. better revolutionary I was being selfish.

I was being individualistic I did not. fight better. and I will do better thank you you know. dear leader for for giving me. information. and at the end we have to do something. called criticizing another person this. is a must. you cannot skip that part so every class. mates have to stand up and deny somebody. for their fault. imagine you do that every week to human. psychology. then you have to watch out for everybody.

because you don't know who's gonna. criticize you at the end of Saturday and. if that criticism is bad then your. family gets punished together with you. it's live life and death situation. so that makes sure that you're never. going to trust anybody. and of course you cannot start Evolution. if you don't trust anybody and then also. you completely isolate it. and it that's how you watch out even you. know my son person afraid nobody knows.

who's gonna watch you and it happens. with your parents there are many cases. that children will report on their. parents. really because. um the region promises that's how you. become a good revolutionary but not only. that sometimes they tell children I'm. gonna give you food. if you report on anybody who's betraying. our party I'm gonna give you food. so some children are so starving. they they call tell Authority like I.

heard my mom was saying this and then. the mom get executed. how many people do you think it executed. a year there. it's nobody knows because now that the. nursing regime knows that we can watch. it from satellites and there's a lot of. execution videos from satellite Villages. so they do on inside the stadiums. so that's the height but at least there. are several hundred thousand of them in. the concentration camps that the UN.

calculated based on those Camp numbers. and the cancer even human body Images. now and very sites. so these are all visible now with those. satellites. what is a. what is something that. you're talking about at school they. would force you to denounce. a comrade what is what is an example of. something you would denounce somebody. for or criticize somebody for it can be.

anything you said you can be oh that. person uh you know sad that maybe that. what you know the school material was. not good or maybe like silly you know. because there are so many propeller. materials or uh he I spent his house one. day I saw his parents were watching for. on TV TV or I heard him one day that he. was singing some Fallen song.

or I saw him someday in a wrong outfit. like it can be anything. so is is everybody punished when if you. denounce somebody are they. their family get punished along with. that person so everybody gets punished. yeah all the time yeah. so you have to be paranoid you have to. be you have to be so paranoid. so what if somebody didn't see anything. do you have to make something up.

you have to see something that's a thing. so that's why entirely week you watch. your behavior but you have to find the. fault at others because you are forced. to denounce. and imagine if you just lied I mean that. person gonna say it's live right so you. have to find something. all the time who does wrong have you. been denounced I have to be I had to be. everybody had to be announced and. everybody had to be a. so things that I was denounced it was.

like I was so little so they give you. quoras like if we work in the farm we. have to sit in right and they say in one. hour you have to finish this much so if. one person fails to finish their quora. on time the teachers will beat entire. children in the class because it's. something called the collective gift. they teach you that you're not an. individual. they the first thing North Korea does to. you is that you're not an individual we.

don't have the word I. what matters is we the collective. so if one person does wrong it's not. that person before it is your fault all. of you. so that's how it's all about the. collective gift because you are not one. single unit ever. and so I will still times that I. couldn't finish the all my Quran time. then of course that was the subject of. criticism what was the punishment.

beating beating and then uh make us to. run and crawl on our school ground as. much as we can and into midnight and. give us extra work until like 2 A.M in. the morning. so a lot of beatings a lot of punishing. how would they beat you. anything because there is no human. rights so teachers some of them are even. sometimes like drunk they get they are. so starving right so they have this. anger then.

they are some Psychopaths that I. literally bring these leather belts or. like metals and there's very common they. break your bones and take your eyesight. away like they throw anything they have. this metal uh like where you put those. cigarettes in. that's true yeah Astros they can throw. that at you rock said too they can they. can kill you and there's no. accountability on anybody. so it's a. they do that children like constant.

beating everyday beating and. that's the thing they think somehow you. need to. train your children and your wife. through beating that's the same. so if you're a trans children and women. you have to beat them. when what age does this start been. denouncing. around eight eight years old yeah. it starts around eight and uh beating. starts as soon as one or two even few. months old.

because they never learn how to respect. life yeah so. throwing it's literally a thin infant. away like when North Korean gets I mean. we are gonna call back later but okay. raped in North Chris and back they they. kill the baby right so. is killing a baby is not a big deal. there it's not no killing in life is not. doesn't mean anything in the society. damn let's. um. that's some heavy stuff let's take a.

quick break and uh when we come back. let's talk about your journey on how you. got out of there. perfect. this episode is sponsored by hvmn you've. heard the buzz about Ketone supplements. and how they can boost your workouts by. helping your body use fatty acids for. fuel I take a shot of hvm and Ketone. supplement before my morning workout. it's focused energy it's not an energy. drink though it's like a feeling of. being in the zone I don't feel hyper.

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how you got out of North Korea I know. you got trafficked into China. um how did that happen. yeah a day. so it's like escaping from North Korea. is very different than how other. immigrants Escape you know we don't have. a phone we don't have a map we don't. have any idea and the only clue I had.

about the outside world was. seeing these lights like coming out of. China at night time because I was living. in the Border Town of North Korea and. that's my family and I have some clue. that maybe they are better off over. there and if we go where the lights are. then we might find some bowl of rice. so you actually had no idea that it. might be better there you were just you. saw electricity you just guessed it and. you thought well if they have.

electricity over there then it must be. better yeah I saw on a documentary that. one of the the satellites if you look at. North Korea over satellite it's a big. black. spot at night time yeah where you see. South Korea has energy China has energy. and then North Korea is just a black. it's just darkness it's it's always no. electricity at night yeah it's a darkest. place in the world right now so you you. saw electricity on the other side of the. river and and that's all you had to go.

off of yeah. yeah go let's go where the lights are. let's go maybe if David go there we can. find something to eat. and I was 13 years old I was something. around 50 pounds like very tiny. literally you know about to die from. starvation and my sister escaped first. and she left me a note saying that go. find this lady she will help you to. escape.

and I went to the. to her and she said she could help me to. go to China and she said once you go to. China you will find your sister and. everything will be okay. but we didn't really ask follow-up. questions. and also at the time it really didn't. matter because if we didn't Escape. you're not you're going to die anyway so. there was no point of even asking you. know why are you helping me for free so. was there any fear at all knowing. knowing now that the complete mind.

control you had mentioned earlier that. you thought that the state could. actually read your mind yeah that's how. brainwashed you were so. was there any fear knowing that or was. it I'm gonna die so this I'm either. gonna die here. and I'll chance it there so this is a. thing about like you people having hard. time to understand North Koreans right. in some way we are the most bizarrely. innocent people.

because it in North Korea like uh we are. never seen the bad news. our news is all about Victorious better. that our army is doing and how our. mother nation is thriving under the. communism and everything is wonderful. there's no news about rape I did not. even know the word rape there's no word. like news about you know escaping or. anything bad right so I was completely.

not understanding the bad things. happening in the world that if I were. born here I will understand. so. just not knowing that how bad things can. go wrong that was not a concept for us. because we just did not I mean even. though we were seeing executions those. things was not on the news right so we. just did not understand that selling. another human being was a thing. it was not a concept for me and we.

didn't have the vocabulary for like. human trafficking or even Freedom was. there right so. I think that was the thing just really. now understand. anything at the time. how fast did the situation develop. that morning I found a lady and she said. I could go that night it was that quick. yeah 12 hours and then my mother wanted. to go home to tell my father. that we are escaping.

and that time we didn't even the world. escaping it was not we were just like. going somewhere to find sister and. we knew that it was dangerous get caught. but I did not even know the word Escape. was there we were like okay we cannot. get caught because the car is going to. shoot us if they see us. then I told my mom we're gonna come back. I thought I said oh somehow going back. there. I thought it was like temporarily we go. to China we find the sister we find food. and come back home so I told my mom like.

if you tell him he's not gonna let us go. like you cannot tell him that. and my mom was like then I cannot go I. cannot leave him alone that's like. I just had a feeling if I left my mom. there that she doesn't die from. starvation it's like no you have to come. with me. so she so much trusts me who's 13 years. old like younger. and she came with me. so we. found the she introduced us to another. guy who was going to actually take us.

through that journey of crossing the. river because that journey is very. dangerous and she couldn't do it herself. and we had to climb a lot of different. like Paths of Rocky Mountains and then. found a spot that was at least seen by. the people and I think they bribed the. guard on that post of the guard and we. crossed the river through there it's the. woman that helped you escape is she. North Korean yeah she was North Korean. do you have any idea how she made the.

connections to stripping people out. I heard that she initially sold her own. daughters. and. you think it's a crazy thing to do as a. mother and. if I were in North Korea I would have. done the same thing because that was the. only way that I wouldn't share my child. not dying from starvation like. she I heard that she sort of two of her.

daughters to China. and then at the time she was pregnant. and I think at this point. she was she rescued me if she didn't. tell me that they'll be dead. and she I heard she got executed after. we left and she got called an authority. executed her for that. so. of course the regime executes anybody. let them Escape but.

how she got into the job because she. couldn't feed her children anymore she. had to find a way to make sure that her. daughter lives. and that was the way she found that they. she had to send her daughter to China. how did she make how did she make the. connections in China to sell her. children that I'm not sure quite sure. but a lot of them now is impossible but. back then the regime did not crack down. on escaping as much in the 90s there's.

so many people dying from starvation. even authorities could now track down. who is dead where like in North Korea. when we say goodbye to my mom when I was. younger like there's no guarantee I'm. gonna see her again because there's no. car there's no letter you can write. there's no email if she goes out and she. didn't find food that then dies that was. it nobody I will never ever see her. again. so so many people were lost like that. that regime just didn't care at the time.

and Kim Junior thought he did not think. The Defector is going to escape and go. to South Korea and then speaking out and. exposing the regime that way so he was. like yeah if they want to go let them go. that's fine. and then they realized by the only two. thousand all the defectors go and then. become spokesperson then they expose. what's happening inside us that's when. they realized we need to crack down on. the escaping okay so that's why it. became harder by 2019 3 and I escaped.

2007. what um what are the what measures. did they take to make it harder to. escape. ichio is different like in the beginning. they would appear these fences and then. they add a high electrified wire fence. right like political prison camps. there's Electrify the wire fences okay. and then they would give the shoot to. kill order for the cars with the machine. guns like if you see anybody just shoot. them don't like like you know bother to.

catch them. and then they were asking China to help. China would install the facial. recognition cameras with electrified. wire fences again everywhere the cameras. and the Chinese cars on the other side. and then that was not enough so bearing. the landmines entirely through the. Border. and then they evacuated the citizens out. of all the Border towns inside now. so they are bringing Kim new measures. now there's completely facial. recognition cameras landmines.

electrified offenses both China both. North Korean side. that it just became impossible to escape. now so it's it's it's damn near. impossible to get out of there yeah now. nobody can escape. nobody can get out of North Korea right. now what is the border to South Korea. look like that's DMZ that's mostly. heavily militarized Zone in the world. okay they buried I mean tons of. landmines I mean there is any single.

thing gonna cause a war between I mean. the world never ended right if they are. taking a break. so anything is a me Invasion so that. unless you're the guard that knows the. path of invading the electrified wire. fences and what time the physics goes. down what time the post changing and. where the landmines are unless you. worked there for like years you not know. that path. so the one soldier who was the border.

guarder at the MZ and escaping he got. shot like something six times. so almost nobody can escape through that. border. damn. so back to you back to your story so. you're 13 years old correct yeah and you. get sold into. sex slave sex slavery yeah. is it only women that escape. most of them are women because a women.

are more in demand. there are men men are sold for as a. forced labor so they are like livestocks. they let them sleep with their pigs and. cows and horses in the bar and give them. bare minimum food and then they make. them to. do the most dangerous labor like you. know cutting the Big Woods like the. mining and those kind of wood and then. they use the men's labor like that but.

women's is more lucrative because they. can sell us more higher price. and a lot of organ harvesting they buy. us for our organs China buys you for. organ harvesting and they buy us as a. prostitute so they put us in the. brothels in a room. there's no rights and they just put you. in the room and get you raped like. sometimes when I heard like 500 times. and they eventually eventually die after.

six months they cannot take it anymore. and died and they buy a new girl. and let her be raped and die. and some of them like me are being sold. to. another trafficker and my mom was sort. for a man in a farming Town who was like. mentally not stable. and they buy them as fake wives as the. sex slaves and if you are lucky you get. only raped by your supposedly husband. but a lot of times your the cousins.

fathers father-in-laws and the whole. town man rape you around or the entire. town a whole time they raise money and. buy one girl and then Vape around and if. she dies they bring another girl or like. an entire family Brothers by the garden. and share. it's a sex toy they buy. wow that is heavy. um.

how did you get trafficked. in some sense. uh. they sold my mother first and she they. charge her for 65 dollars. another for 65 yeah in the 21st century. and. I mean they were negotiating our like. price right in front of us like they. make us two turn around and check our.

bodies and and they realized I was a. virgin so that was valuable because I. was some perverted men love child. virginity so they sold me over like 20. dollars separate from my mom. and then uh there's a human trafficker. Wings right each trafficker makes more. money on top of you make the margins on. you so North Korean traffic Resort me. and this Chinese first traffickers are. selling me to the second trafficker. and that tropical was a Han Chinese who.

bought me his name is hongway. he decided to kill me he wanted me for. himself for his mistress and these. traffickers are like. in some sense like kings right they have. a lot of Mistresses because they can. afford it I mean if you can afford money. to buy these girls you can have like. literally theoretically even 10 000 of. them if you want to so. he had a lot of mysteries before me and. he.

have sex with them and he get bored and. he stole them to a guy. right like that was a thing it's like. okay he buys a girl he gets sick then he. sends her to another farmer. or another buzzer whoever give them the. most money and then he won't do that. with me so initially he wanted to play. Within me and keep me as his mistress. and and he somehow. thought was very. very knew that by the time of this is by.

the time the North Korean uh trafficked. that guy and Chinese trafficker then by. the time is the third line of. trafficking so a lot of them do not keep. virginity. by then they'll get raped and they do. not keep the opportunity so he was. amused like this is actually for the. first time I got somebody who kept their. virginity to this line like how did you. do that. and luckily I was with my mom with a. Chinese broker and when he was trying to.

write me my mother offered her. and then after that the guy trying to. rape me I I felt like hell I don't know. what strength came out of me I felt like. hell because I was ready to die I was. gonna kill myself if he raped me and he. thought okay if she kills herself and. literally she's crazy right now then I. cannot make any money out of her. so for him okay then like I need to make. money out of her. this is this this is the third iteration. the first iteration this is a Chinese.

broker okay yeah so you want to so you. were sold to one trafficker so from. North Korea to the next yeah we decided. to keep you as a mistress so there's a. North Korean trafficker there's a woman. and then the guy who crossed in the. River Falls that's North Korean too and. then from there the first traffic was. Chinese Korean ethnic Chinese and then. he sold us to another broker we do my. mother at the time and he sold my mom.

separately and he kept me to write me. okay and there I was I lost my mind I. was so fighting hard and then he started. me to another traffic that was the third. guy that was a Han Chinese. that's when uh. he he decided to kill me and then I. would kill myself I was gonna try to. kill myself and he said if you become my. mistress I'm gonna help you to find your. family because he was also to my mother. to a Chinese farmer. so he knew where my mom was like this is.

one day. it's a miracle like he bought me and. then he showed me like this thing called. the phone like I've never seen a servant. in my life and he was like do you have. ever seen a phone I was like of course. I've never seen a phone but he was. saying things in Chinese. and then like he's like this thing can. take pictures so he was taking pictures. and then show me on the album like you. see this thing can do a lot of things. more than like speaking and in the.

pictures I see my mom's photo. and then I was like this is Mama Mama is. Like My Mother My Mama. and then that's when he knew the woman. that he just saw was my mother. and. uh. yeah so it's it and obviously he wrote. to my mom too and then he wants himina. so he said if I become his mistress he. was going to buy my mom back from the.

farmer that he just sold. and then he was going to help me find my. sister and help me get my sick father. out of North Korea. so I made a deal with this devil. and we do some miracle he kept his. promise he did bring my mom back to me. and then he brought my sick father to me. to China. do you think he fell in love with you. yeah I think he did I think he did yeah.

put spirit for just a second so when you. get. traffic or when you get sold to the the. Chinese farmer or the next trafficker. yeah how many. what is that setting look like it's a. uh from the. when we get to the Chinese side of the. riverbank. this guy brought the blankets. and then. asking me to take off your clothes. because I'm gonna like have sex with you.

and like I've never knew what the word. sex and this is a dark in the river bank. and there might be cars going around and. this guy is like animals right. and my mom was like what are you talking. about she just had a surgery like. and so you know I have to have her like. then so it didn't take me so that's when. she got raped. and then. there was a car I was waiting on the. this is a riverbank and the up is a road. somewhere so he I think called somebody.

and then some car came so we went up. that Riverbank up and we got into this a. car truck. so and then in Trump I was I was night I. never been in a car had a seat car like. that I've been in a car a few times that. was a rare like there's no roof where. like all the the core like coming out. you know not like modern car so I was. having this massive car seat.

but my mother was asking me to look at. North Korea because North Korea is. completely dark and I could see the. apartment that my father was in that. night and she told me. look at look at it it might be the last. time you see your hometown again. and it was not my last time seeing my. homeland. and then. that car would take too. the apartment that he was in. and then we go inside this apartment.

I remember a floor. but in North Korea it's all cement floor. that broken but his home eyeshadow. wooden floor I've never seen that in my. life like that like it's a wooden floor. and had it electricity then nighttime is. home at electricity. and then there was a lady in the bed and. she was telling us that in China we had. to be sold as six slaves.

and if you don't want you can go back to. North Korea. but like how do we go back to North. Korea I mean even the guard don't catch. us that means if you're still dying from. starvation there's no way coming back. right we still have to stay in China. then they called somebody and the second. trafficker came with his mistress. and she was at another North Korean. woman like me. so she was came like me but that man. kept her to become his mistress and then.

uh that was a guy was checking our. bodies and to negotiating the price with. this guy you know how much he would be. willing to give for my mom and myself. and then from that house uh we cannot. stay in the Border time long because the. authorities keep going by. around it was a lot of snow it was uh. March 26th. no March 30th that's the My Day My.

Easter sister escaped March 26th and. March 30th we are escaping and. uh. that day it was a lot of snow and then. around 5 a.m he wanted to take us to the. second Brooklyn to take us his car so he. was asking us to come down from the. building and meet him in the car. and then when we go down from the stairs. this travel trafficker will stop my mom. in the hallway.

and he took her pants off and he just. raping her there okay and. and I think. I was like mixed up I think somebody. blocked that up and later my mom when I. was writing my first book she was saying. that was like two separate events and. that's actually when I really saw it. because in the riverbank I couldn't see. much and I just heard it and that's when. my mom was asking me to turn around and. cover my ears.

and. and then well after that rape. we do the person the car again another. cotton. there. uh another lady joined three of us in. the back and then. the car was going all the way to town. soon like inside China. so it's a lot of hiding in car and just. moving as fast as you can because we can. get caught.

man that is. how are you dealing with all this now. oh. well I feel like. I had many different lives you know at. this point lived through a lot of lives. but. I think I'm just grateful you know. none of that killed me and I was able to. see the words that. was a lot more than this so I think. because I've I saw it I can be a lot be.

more grateful now that I can be a lot. happier with the little things these. days. so it's in some ways it's I guess it's a. blessing. I mean how I look at is a blessing at. least for me that's how I decided to. look at it. let's go back to. when you became this traffickers. mistress the guy who how were you. treated at that point.

um a lot of beating because I was. fighting to be. even after initial rape it was. very painful it was really painful and I. thought my body was getting split out of. it. and then I fear the shame I felt so. dirty I was like. like you know Rob myself till I was. really like. go also in the shower afterwards it was. so shameful.

so. he he would have been me too. get out of that and. I was constantly like how can I just die. you know I cannot end this but the only. thing was he was saying I'm gonna bring. your mom but like bring my mom was not. gonna happen in one day even after the. first rape he had to go back and. negotiate the price with my mom because. he sold my mom and this Farmer's not. gonna send my mom for the same price.

they want to try make more money out of. it. so they had to negotiate the price and. it took several months. and. I think during that time was very hard. because. and then during that time he had to go. buy other girls to serve them so during. that time he would love me in the. apartment. and I cannot go outside the door is. locked from the outside many doors and. even the windows has a gate scene and.

I was in apartment for I don't know 15. days by myself like I don't even know. how many days because there's no clock. and only thing I see is like sunrises. and goes down but I cannot even turn the. lights on because other people can see. and police can come in so. I I don't know how many days I was in. the apartments alone a lot of times he. would lock the door and go and come back. but he would buy.

me some food and he go and. and sometimes the Trevor gets delayed. then he did not buy enough food for me. to eat. so I always have some days I think he he. only thought he was gonna be gone for. like a week. but that time it was gone for many many. days because he had a steady score to. sandong is a difference different. um. state. is a very poor town so a lot of farmers.

cannot find wife they buy North Korea so. he had to take these girls takes almost. like several days to get there and then. negotiating the price looking for the. man and it takes many days so. I ate the food quickly because I thought. it was only seven days and I had to be. hungry many many days afterwards. so afterwards I was always like still be. very conservative of how I split the. food until it comes.

I forgot a lot about this. but eventually my mom came and. I think that was like hope for me like I. listened to have one percent out of it. and I had my father to say and my kids. were safe so. after my mom came that was much better I. think. how's that when you're.

well describe that that exact moment. when you see my mom were reunited with. your mother. um which I saw in a cornfield by then it. was I was created with her by April 1st. right. this is now in almost the Harvest Time. or made it hot hot summer day. I met her in the middle of the cornfield. because we couldn't still Authority and. she was sort of this farmer so I had to. go there.

and. shift so away from she saw me far away. but she did not think that was me. because. I became a different person she thought. like I just became adult. so until you came close she didn't say. my name she just thought like someone. was strange woman standing there. and. she saw me like few meters and then she. just spoke in tears and the first thing.

she did was give me a pizza because. until that moment I was her baby. so. she was like how much my baby has grown. and she was give me piggyback I was like. I'm not a baby anymore I've been raped. you know I'm not a kid. and I feel so awkward that she was. treating me like a kid out of nowhere. and for her like on 15 months ago I was. a little kid in North Korea sitting on.

that and in North Korea we don't have. separate rooms I was always sleeping. next to her. at night time. and. she was just she couldn't believe you. how much changed in a few months of time. for both of us. wow. and. I think from that point I became her. husband. because I was speaking Chinese and she. didn't. so she had to rely on literally.

everything on me because she could not. even say I will murder I want to go to. bathroom so I had to translate. everything for her. and to this day I'm like almost like her. husband that she lost it's a hour. Dynamic forever changed from that point. on. how did the what was the. what was the man's name who purchased. you the traffic on me. how did he treat your mother.

when he when he purchased her again. I think it was awkward because. he raped her a lot. and. um. I mean how do you deal with that yeah. but. she did he allow you and your mother to. communicate on a regular basis were you.

guys together a lot or did he have keep. you separated I mean did they he went to. Ray me would take me away. and he was sleeping with all these girls. that he was buying so he was like in a. way I was lucky he didn't need me every. day you know and he was going on these. trips for a month that he had to go. serious girls but that's when he also. raped all these girls like every one of. them like literally that's a ceremony. you know whenever you get a new girl. that's what they you you rape this curse.

and you on the other Walker buys you. that's the day you get raped it's like. every single person buys you that's when. you get raped many many times and they. just rape in the car they rape you. on the street it means the Farmland they. take in the cornfield and they rape you. there. it's I never knew. it was that many ways you could rape. somebody like. there's nothing there's no like privacy.

like if they. at least I was this low bands like he's. called Loma is a boss's wife but these. girls who come and there's no dignity if. this guy's on a rape you they just rape. you involve everybody like there's. nothing. they do to protect you in any way. and. so. at least he becoming more respectful. towards me initially he was hitting me.

and he was treating me like all other. girls that he's been treating. and. somehow by some miracle he was falling. more in love with me every day and he. was looking for ways to divorce his. Chinese wife who he had two children. with his just daughter was one year. younger than me and he wanted to. actually marry me and want to have a. child with me. so.

he became more protective of me in that. way so he became more uh becoming nice. to my mother. but then. after one year passes he becoming. addicted to gambling. and and then when he brought my father. that's when my father was very sick. and by then he had enough of me right. like so the beating starts again and.

threatening starts again. and my father passed away and one less. burden for him and then. he would not even giving enough money to. buy any food from my mom anymore like in. China. I couldn't buy her like water because in. the apartment if you don't pay the like. money the water stops so before the. water cut off I learned the way to. turn the top just a little bit so one. tap tap tap drops entire night and we.

get the one what kind of water for that. week and the meter stops before we stop. because he stopped paying for the money. and eventually I had to sell my mom. because I could find her anymore I need. food in China. so I sold her to another Farm. and then with that money he spent just. one evening for gambling he spent all. that money. and I had to run away from him because.

he also couldn't feed me and then I got. kidnapped by another gangster. and this gangster was a lot darker than. homie he this canister actually kills. people. he that's his job like killing people. and. uh. I eventually got like run away from him. too let's go back for just a minute your. dad passed away. um. 2008 he passed away in February.

let's talk about that. how did he pass he got to China on my. birthday October 10th of 2007. and then he was already very very sick. because he was tortured so much in the. prison camp he had a colon cancer. because he was eating rocks I mean he. was eating soap I mean he was eating the. things that human beings should never. eat. and that was the only way he could.

survive so. he uh he passed away a few months later. in China. so. how did you get to have a funeral. no I think. the way I. keep trying to push this thing is that. because even though he's my hero to this. day but. it was so hard to take care of him in. China that.

we were in some sense waiting for him to. die. he was becoming becoming more Delirious. as the time goes by and the pain is so. much. and he sometimes forgets that even in. China and he wants to keep going to. staff North Korea. he will skip I mean he buried in North. Korea next to my father and my homeland. and I couldn't do that for him. I could not take him to North Korea.

there's no way I could do that. and then uh Hong Mei was very frustrated. because my father he thought if we bring. him he could make my father as a forced. labor and make money out of him. but he was too sick to do any work. so. um he was he was tired feeding him and. taking care of him. so. a lot of just beating on me just getting. it out of me he was frustrated with him.

so he would take it out yeah so. I couldn't mourn his death I couldn't. even feel anything for him I would just. I was barely surviving so he when he. passed away doctor said he was going to. leave six months I'm like oh my God. thank you me for six months you know I. cannot even do one day at a day. and he passed away just four months. afterwards.

and in some sense I heard when I was not. there. my mom had to give him a lot of pears. to accelerate the process. and. my mom's my dad someone didn't want to. die unlike me he did not want to die he. thought life was a gift that you have to. keep fighting for it and I could. understand like how do you fight for. life when your life is means this little. you know. time was so much easier that time so I.

couldn't get it but somehow he still. thought life was gift. and he passed away and. there is ashes in the middle of now when. everybody was sleeping. and that was the end of his life. we had it you had to hide the the. funerals the ceremony yeah there's no no. such a thing it's a we are fugitives we. cannot.

we cannot even cry because we cannot. other people see us hearing us. so we had to be as discreet as possible. so moving forward. you're with the new trafficker who. murders people yeah. yeah what happened there. a lot of beating. a lot of threatening he had like nine. harems sweetie. and.

nine what nine girl harems they were. Chinese actually and. this guy was so it was in the 50s or 60s. guy I'm like 14 years old. he somehow has so much money and that's. why he was having his nine Chinese. Mistresses right that means he's really. worth I mean most of Chinese guy cannot. even find one girl for them he got nine. of them or these teenage girls.

and these girls were so happy to be with. him even. uh he somehow none of them could give. him a song. and he took me to this fortune teller. who was blind old man in a man like some. elderly home he took me there and then. like do you see a future like a son in. her future. and he says yes. apparently I have my son now in America. but maybe that's the song He Saw right.

life is so crazy so he sees my son in. his future I was like yeah I totally see. her very healthy young boy in her life. and he says. you should definitely keep her she's. gonna give you a song. and then describe it comes off so. obsessed he demands that I give I give. him a song. and. it's it's scary it's it every day he.

says you you are less valuable than a. pig you know I can kill you in this spot. and nobody gonna do anything to me so. you better do whatever I say tell you. and I was I started from my mom again. she was now the farmer that I sold her. to I want to see my mom and he would not. let me. so. at the time hongway was fighting to get. me back and then hongi was said.

I'm gonna give my life for this like are. you willing to die for yeah me and he's. like you know why are you talking about. why would you die for a girl you know. they are so you can just buy them they. are so replaceable and. these gangster eventually realize I'm. just not it's just not worth of me to. fight this much to keep her. so he's he's so much and then I told him. if you just let me go see my mom I'm. gonna come back to you like just let me. go see my mom once.

and he got convinced so he had enough. trust with me at the time that I was. faking it like just trust me I'm gonna. see come back just to see my mom and. come back to you why would I not want to. be with you or is this powerful man like. every woman want to be with you you know. and he said okay that logically makes. sense because all these girls want to. give a child to him because he was gonna. buy them the most expensive apartment. and life secured for them. so when he let me go I took that person.

called see my mom I threw the phone away. because I knew that he planted you know. he was working with the police to track. all these girls the police is corrupt. so I threw the phone and I ran away with. my mom. and I found the home way back. and then there we found a lady told us. that there's a way we can get a shelter. which means we had to join a sex chat.

room. where is it's not actual prostitutional. man comes there a rape you but you are. in front of a camp and computer and you. show your body but if you do that then. they are going to give you a place to. sleep and eat. and we I was begging to go like washing. dishes in the restaurants during that. time I was like just let me work like I. can wash dishes I can do anything just. give me a job like I don't even need to.

get paid just give us some place to. sleep and eat and they wouldn't give us. any of the job in China. so only place we can go for is another. it's kind of dark word. wow and that's how we join the chat room. how did you how did you get out of that. uh in this chat room. the clients or South Koreans.

because South Koreans were worthier than. Chinese so they would for them to spend. like five dollar membership to see a. live person performing any sex sex acts. day one is much more thrilling than. watching it just boring porn. saw a lot of South Korean men would just. pay money. come and chat with this person. ask them to show their body and and. because the economic power is very.

different so for them this was not a lot. of money for them. and then in this chat room we met all. the North Korean women and she somehow. got in touch with some missionaries from. South Korea who are rescuing North. Koreans. and she said she was too afraid to go. herself because the. chance of making was one percent because. the path was walking across Gobi Desert. into Mongolia.

and most of people die there you don't. make it so she was just too afraid to. make that decision by herself she was. asking would you come with us. because it was my mom and myself and her. three of us now because better than. going alone. and we. spoke with our missionaries over the. phone and. that was it for the first time. somebody felt bad for us. we told them about like how we lost our. sister. and they said I'm sorry to hear that I'm.

gonna pray for her. and we thought maybe we can trust these. people like you know like there was. never nobody ever prayed for us nobody. ever saw that kids I'm so sorry you're. going through this. and this missionary who never met us who. does not even know know our name said. I'm so sorry that you are going through. it. and if you believe in God he will take. care of it and you can come out of this. so we decided to join the missionaries.

from there. did you know what God was no I did not. know I did not I actually. I was I just laughed because. as a North Korean who believed that. having no problem that kimerson was my. God it was bizarre to me that they were. believing exact same thing that I. believe just the names were different. you know just they switched The Gamers. on to God and came down to Jesus. literally same content Commandments.

there like I just thought it's another. weird word that I was in. the only difference was that these. people were not rapist we're not trying. to make money out of us they were just. doing it to. glorifying their gut they thought that. God wanted to know screen people to know. who he was. and that's what they were giving their. life to so. I thought what's weird people you know.

you believe something you don't see and. come to this dangerous land and rescuing. People Like Us for in the name of God. and. and then at the time it's honestly. it didn't matter if they asked me to. believe in a rock I would have believed. in because I was that desperate you know. you know it was it wasn't even me trying. to pretend when you desperate you can. believe in an air you can't believe in a. hair like if somebody tells you if you. believe in this thing gonna be safe.

you're gonna believe that as as hard as. you can. so I became a believer that my mom. became a Believer and we studied the. Bible for several months there. immediately. yeah the first day they asked us to. repeating the prayer that to be saved by. Jesus his his sacrifice and they said. now you're Christians that now you are. God's people and you are saved and now.

your life is on him and he's gonna take. care of you. that's interesting that you found faith. that quickly especially considering. everything that you had been through in. North Korea and in China and I lost it. in South Korea I think in China was just. out of desperation yeah it's you know. at the time that was the only option for. me to be saved how many. if you had an estimation. how many times do you think you were.

raped. hundreds. [Music]. definitely a lot definitely it's not. something. that I can count but. a lot. but. I don't know it's just. as already victim you keep sort of. saying I'm not dirty you know it's like.

I'm not 30. but. you always feel that you feel like dirty. and. I think it's still a lot of times nor. screaming can I come out with their. stories because of this. because this project somehow that you. are the force that you can't. I'd never be like somebody else that was. pure and clean and. I just didn't even say thinking about it. if my son's sister someday he's gonna.

think of me 30s just makes me afraid. I think he would be very proud of you. yeah. yeah I think he would be extremely proud. of his mom yeah. for everything that you've been through. and what you're doing now and and. it's you are a walking miracle. am. you realize that I do. I'm very lucky the only reason I ask. that question is I wanted to show the. severity of what you'd been through and. and in the Miracle on how fast you were.

able to. find. some sort of faith and in a higher power. of God. yeah it's a. it's a lot you it's not. they just treat you like a toy so it's. they need to go through a lot and. one thing I am grateful is that.

I was bought by the boss so I didn't get. thrown around like most of people do. yeah that you if you get just bought by. even a normal farmer you you it's not. just one person out of that to you. everybody can do that too. how did. I mean it sounds like so when you went. to South Korea you felt compassion and. love and a lot of good emotions that. probably have never felt yeah ever in.

your entire life what. I mean what did that. how did that feel to you. it's it it being able to express your. emotions and and. I don't know if you felt happiness yet. or I don't know if you fell in love yet. but yeah what did it feel like to. I mean. to have compassion towards you did it. did it I mean you'd never experienced. any compassion towards you whatsoever up.

until this point I think I don't infer. that in America. you didn't feel it in South Korea no. because I was Korea was very not. forgiving country. I could not talk about my. human trafficking experience there. because no same man would marry me and. who would have a child with me. and no no more mother-in-law Isa accept. me as their you know South Korea is very. traditional conservative Society.

and my dream was always being a mother I. always as a child no I always want to be. a mother. and I. I couldn't in South Korea there's no. chance of me ever being married to some. normal respectable man. if I had a past. so I couldn't talk about that and also. life in South Korea wasn't that easy. because. when we get there they say like we are. very competitive country and North can.

still have a scarce side we don't speak. English we don't know what computer is. like we don't know we don't have any. education. and we cannot even work as the waitress. because our accent is from North. so they don't even give you a job at the. bakery you cannot even serve dishes at. the restaurant it's hard to find a job. like in my North Korean girlfriends they. come to America they find job easily. they work in the elder care they work in.

the nail salon they don't care you speak. the spoken English as long as you want. to work hard they give you a job not in. South Korea. they they don't rape you because police. is gonna come after you but because we. have accents and we are as you can see a. lot smaller than them and so they don't. give us jobs easily and it's very hard. to find any job there. who's teaching religion then.

the Bible. in South Korea they a lot of them are. Christians but. the country are not like American. Multicultural they are not used to. Outsiders and the only people they. respect are the wealthy white people you. know it's like French Americans who are. calm then they're fine but if you come. from Vietnam. Laos or North Korea countries are polar. than them they definitely discriminate. okay so it's definitely based on.

economic power they do. well when you got there. so the missionary saved you from South. Korea. so what what where did they put you when. you got to South Korea no so they don't. put us and it's a missionaries would put. us in the shelter in uh qingdao region. in China and then after we study Bible. for several months. then they sent us to walk across the. desert okay.

so we crossed the desert ourselves they. don't come with us it's too dangerous. the chance of making so low so they. would say. gave us a compass like you go and cross. like eight by your fitted fences you. might reach China I mean North uh. Mongolia then if you get discovered by a. Mongolian guards tell them that you or. North Korea and want to go to South. Korea okay but chance of you get. discovered by Chinese soldiers is. very high they're wire fences are.

electrified fences and wild animals and. it's minus 40 degrees cold. it's most of them don't make it that's. why they don't cross the Mongolia path. usually they all go through Thailand. how did you make it across. we walked how long. oh just one day because it some summer. months they walk even months or days but. usually we pick the most coldest time so.

guards wouldn't think that somebody. would be this crazy enough to cross the. border right now oh my God so it was. like minus 40 degrees and like even. you really becomes ice cream so cold so. you wait for the worst weather. conditions because that's the least Thai. security. otherwise if it's a summer time this. board is hanging out everywhere they'll. shoot you they're not gonna let you. cross the border so we chose a time and. we crossed that distance with the.

shortest distance between the Gobi. Desert. wow. well let's take a let's take another. short break and then when we come back. we'll talk about your journey to the. United States great perfect. you've probably heard me talk about my. psychedelic Journey last year and all. the benefits that came from doing it one. being that I haven't drank in almost a. year I have not had any caffeine in. almost a year my anxiety has gone my. anger is gone a whole list of benefits.

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seen. probably more trauma than anybody that. sat in that chair and I don't know how. much you know about this show but it's a. lot of combat veterans and a lot of. Special Operations guys and we talk. about we talk a lot about healing after. the traumas of war I've not heard. anything. that comes close to what you've. experienced. so before we get into coming to the.

United States how how. I'm curious because I don't want to run. out of time on this portion how are you. how are you processing all this how are. you are you going to therapy have you. looked at. psychedelics if you looked at. I mean how do you get through it all. I think. mental. strength is a. it can be exercised so.

and even like just not talking about it. was very hard because I know I'm. traumatized right because like it's. irrational that I'm not gonna worry. about my son so I'm going to not think. of me as well good person but. I think. my strength is always coming from. I'm in a position can talk about this. but there are people actually living. through what I've been through. and sometimes you unlock worse.

and I think. that knowledge give me strength to keep. speaking up so you're finding your. strength. for speaking for the oppressed yeah for. those speakers I know what I first go. through that Terror like. I'm in a place that people are so good. they talk about trauma you know. like he knows here we don't even have. that as a concept. and. I'm in a pleasure therapy but. actual people who go through this.

Darkness they don't even know what that. is they just every day is a torture and. Terror so. yeah if I can't even talk about it I. mean what can I do in the world and I. also believe like you said I'm lucky. that there is a reason why I got saved. there is only. 209 defectors made it to America over. the last 80 years there's only 209 yeah. in the past did you say 80 yeah years. so of course I'm lucky despite.

everything I've gone through I'm the. luckiest person that I know of so I. think keeping that perspective it's very. important and I don't go to therapy I. don't do any drugs I'm not on any. anxiety periods I never took one I have. done one like psychedelic therapy but. I did once what was it. I think. it was.

pretty that way it was helpful but I. don't think I thought I needed one again. it wasn't a something. that I had to do it again. to me was. it's more important for me to make a. decision on why I survived like. I survived to tell this story I survived. that. to shine the light in the darkness and. it's bigger than me all right my story.

is a lot bigger than me like there are. 300 000 of North Korean girls. their organs are Harvest out of them I. didn't get that I'm so so lucky so. I just sometimes worry though like. American culture is. sometimes overly com like compassionate. they almost expect you to become a. victim. they almost expect you to not to. function very well a lot of people keep. asking me like how are you so high. functional how are you so positive like.

why are you so normal. and there's kind of some expectation. that if you've gone through. certain trauma. you're almost like obligated to fear. not as good. and I don't know it's it's weird like. even. being a mother the most honorable. beautiful thing that I've ever done. doctors keep asking you know the like. the postpartum depression is a normal.

thing do you feel depressed every. doctor's visit there keep asking you are. you depressed I'm going you are making. me depressed now by asking that right so. I try not to get into this cultural. mindset where. become less resilient that I know that. we are a lot stronger than we are. and I try not like to become that strong. you know it's I'm I'm not in a survivor. mode in any way but strength is a good.

thing resilience is a great thing if you. can keep that so. I just decided that I can manage I mean. if I survive that in real life of course. I can survive the memory of it wow I I. was not expecting you to say that and I. think that it is amazing that you're. saying that you refuse to victimize. yourself after everything you've been. through. and. I think that that is a enormous problem.

that we're facing in the United States. with people victimizing themselves in. into to listen to somebody like you with. your story. who's not victimizing themselves. and to watch. the people in the United States who. have all these opportunities. you know to to to improve whatever. portion of their life they think needs. to be improved. and they just they they.

victimize themselves it's it's it's the. common theme now and it's becoming more. and more common yeah. it's really sad it's to see that people. are. I mean. it's even today I was driving here like. even trees are shinier here and the. roads I mean every little house the. peace and this is the most beautiful. thing I've ever seen in my life and if. you cannot have a pride to be a member.

of this country. I mean what can you ever be proud of in. the world like we built this country we. have this country and it's a miracle. yeah of course it has problems to fix. but every everything is but losing that. perspective and losing that gratitude. I think that's very hard and if you lose. gratitude you're never gonna be ever. happy. you know when you're only grateful you. can be happy yeah. well let's talk about your your journey. to the United States and how that.

happened where did that start so 2014 I. was a junior year in University in South. Korea studying criminal justice. and I had opportunity to speak at a. conference in Dublin Ireland and that. was my really first public speech and I. don't have ever seen me in the handbook. where Korean traditional pink dress and. giving a speech that was an amazing. speech that was my very very first. speech and that was the first speech you.

ever gave yeah. wow. I was just turned 21 on that that like a. few days before that podium. and I had no idea I was gonna come to. America because I don't have money I. have connections I cannot buy the plane. I mean I don't have Visa money to come. here but I did a visit America in 2013. as a mission group in Tyler Texas to. study Bible and dual outreach program. for a disciplinary program I came here.

12 weeks and went back to Korea and. started in the University again. but this time after my speech I had a. book offer from penguin randomize to. write my first book and then my agent. was in New York City. so I went to meet my agent in New York. and then the circulus write a book but. while I was writing the book I wanted to. continue my University education because. I didn't finish it and they said oh.

there's a great School in New York which. called Colombian University. [Music]. so just like that though. great I mean I I I love learning it's. just what I live for like understanding. how the world works and how the human. history formed it's just Most. Fascinating thing right so. I applied to Colombia and I got in so. how that's how I moved to America in. 2015 to publish my first book and.

starting at Columbia University in 2016. January. so I came here eight years ago. yeah what is the first thing I mean what. is the first thing that you notice when. when you settled in here to New York. City mm-hmm. I mean that's that's a lot. that is a lot of freedom to take in at. once yeah I think it was a lot I mean I.

I first press I got towards Times Square. because they from DC they the cheapest. ticket they could have got in Chinese. but they they booked me and they sent me. the bus from DC to New York and it gets. off some Airport Authority near Times. Square thing. and then I got in taxi and got out was a. Time Square and I was literally first. thing I remember was it was brighter. than daytime it's night time. and then in North Korea as a child you.

always remember because the north can. propaganda television says we are going. to make America sea of Lights by bombing. them with a nuclear weapon I was like. yeah they don't need our help it's. already still flights here so you're. literally provider than daytime. and then. you know it's. what made me of New York City was. if you give freedom to individuals. like what they are capable of building. with it what is the potential of.

humanity was just first scary University. that looking at this Empire State. Building you know Rockefellers and. they're like all these buildings through. the competed each other and try to live. a mark in the world. and I think that one thing my ma my. father told me as a younger was. when tigers die they leave their skin. but when people die they leave their. names. that's why he told me to make my name.

Long and Lasting and in America you can. do that not only dictator can do that in. North Korea everything is about dictator. every statue we don't have ads because. you cannot compete with the dictator we. don't have advertisement. but in America I mean these people. trying to make their name lasting and. building them buildings out of their. name libraries the symphony horse. everything. and I was just amazed that this is the. land of individuals that the individual.

matters in this land and they celebrate. being an individual. and you are no longer about this. Collective thing you get judged for who. you are what you are what you are trying. to do. and. I just felt that was so empowering. because you know you cannot choose your. ancestor I mean can you choose your. ancestor no you cannot choose your. birthplace. I think that was the greatest of I mean. Injustice I've ever seen that people get. punished for something they didn't.

choose. that is why racism is wrong that's why. punishing people for their birthplace is. wrong right but in America they only. judge you for who you are right now. and that was America that I thought I. was getting into for sure in English. that's what my impression was yeah. that's a. man that's got to be a lot to I'm just. trying to wrap my head around all the. oppression you know how old were you.

when you got to the U.S 21 21 years of. oppression yeah and then you get here. and literally any door you want to walk. through. is open yeah. it was and. I mean there's so many funny things like. in I heard like New York City people are. busy and I go to Central Park if. everybody just keep running and I. thought like they're running for work. but they were trying to burn off their. calories so in North Korea we had to. conserve our energies to survive we.

don't know what Jimmy is we don't know. what exercise is every day is a hard. labor and you come to America their. problem is burning off calorie they pay. money to burn off their calories right. my girlfriends would go like Equinox Gym. and they have membership they go to. group classes to burn like all showing. off I burn like 500 calories today I'm. like you pay money for that. like you just it's crazy to me like why.

would you pay money off to kill your own. calorie right yeah. oh my gosh and like my girlfriends will. show me their like dating apps you know. that kind of like it left the right. thing and there's any guy you will date. or any woman that you want to date. there's nothing about your class your. song Gunner cast. anybody who is a total freedom like who. you marry who you wanna be with is free. and.

I mean literally you get any food at. night time you overeats right just every. food is available anywhere and in North. Korea I've never seen a cookbook because. how can we afford you know five kilogram. of like pork and garlic like butter we. don't have those ingredients. there's no cookbook there's no recipe we. just find whatever we can gather that. day. and I never heard like cook was a job. and I mean there are so many jobs that I.

never knew there were people like. wedding planners like in North Korea. there's nobody plans already you know. yeah it's like party approval that's it. and so many jobs different jobs and of. course understanding hedge fund for the. first time. it was this completely new new planet. man it's. um so what's your favorite food what was. your favorite food coming to the U.S. steak steak because I mean is it in.

North Korea I think I had a thing. because the cows had more rights than us. so Coming to America eating beef and not. getting executed it was like giving a. middle finger to Kim Jong-un every day. you know. I was like I'm like determined to as. much stick as I can. yeah what about so the dating scene. that's something that I didn't I didn't. even. I never even thought about it until you. just brought it up so I mean in North. Korea you're not allowed to date you're. not allowed you're not allowed to think.

how did you. what. how did you start dating. that was hot I didn't date anybody in. South Korea because they. maybe this is the trauma comes with it I. never want to date Asian man. I was never attracted to it. and I never kissed the Asian man like. it's a. I think because of all my rapists Asian. man I was I guess maybe associating that. with it yeah.

so in some sense coming to be completely. on I have nothing to against Asia my son. is Asian people believe me like I'm not. that but. maybe it was easier to come into America. people did not speak. any Korean or Chinese it was they were. speaking English they looked different. and. I was able to start that dating at 21. again and I dated the Russian Jew who. escaped from Soviet Union as a child as.

a Jew they were also persecuted. so there was a lot of connection to. understand the oppression okay and then. and then it was weird because in New. York City I was at 21 in a very. conservative Community relationship and. all my friends were like what are you. doing you're 21 you need to supposed to. pass the water like you need to have fun. you need to you know self-actualize by. doing a lot of people see what you like. so they were like keep saying I'm doing.

wrong by being in a committed. relationship that is my first. relationship. so there's a lot of social pressure. being in college and telling me that. it's not okay to be that serious at 21. yeah that's a lot of influence yeah and. everybody literally the people that I. really admire they were telling me that. you know you you are a woman you need to. enjoy your sexuality. and it's it was shocking. did you find it.

did you get enjoyment out of dating and. getting to know different men or I did. not date casually ever so first person I. was dating for a year very seriously the. very first date wound up being a. year-long relationship and second man. that I met was my husband okay so I. don't think I ever got into American. dating scene like that and also it was. interesting because. uh they're all lovely people but from. North Korea I thought.

big fat bald men were attractive because. you were very starving North Korea and. in America like I was just attracted a. lot of people that my my friends did not. find a truck. so my girlfriends were just so amazed. like you have very old taste. well when you articulate it it. definitely makes a lot of sense yeah. because I did not know the conventional. American beauty standards. and so I did not know what it was for a.

very confused a long time and. so yeah dating was very but Americans. were not just mental at all they knew my. story. none of them ever judged me for my what. I had to do to survive I'm very grateful. for that and. yeah they made me feel like a woman. who's worthy of desire and I'm very. grateful for that. interesting very interesting let's let's.

move into. some of the similarities that you see. today which. your book yeah is what you know the. message that you're sending out what are. what are some of the first similarities. what comes your your mind first what. what are you seeing that resembles maybe. the beginning of what happened in North. Korea here in the United States there. are too many but let's begin with a few. uh one is. attacking individuality.

it's now America becoming more of. attacking that you know it's all about. Collective guilt in America as I said my. son is half white they say he's. privileged and he's guilty. he did not choose to be a white. nobody in America today a live on a. Slave nobody ever should feel guilty and. nobody is privileged because of their. ancestors. America using race to divide people and.

making each other hate each other. and I think that's very heartbreaking. they are using exact same tactic to. divide our skin people they're using the. same tactic here. second is meritocracy. in North Korea it doesn't matter how. good you are it doesn't matter how hard. you want to work it's all about an. Americanized here Equity right are you a. person of color are you a sexual. minority and the companies have quotas. universities have quotas.

literally universally is the place where. you try to train you to be competent. giving you the best skill you can it's. not about that it's your skin color they. have different skin colors on Harvard. Colombia. based on just based on test scores more. than 70 people at Harvard should be. Asians but no they only accepted over 11. of them Asians each year because of skin.

color. so. that's heartbreaking because how we get. better as a society promoting. competition and competence yeah we do. not we need to appreciate that people's. hard work when somebody told me about. Justice in South Korea I never heard. about Justice once I asked them like. what is Justice and this person said to. me in South Korea. if you work hard you're going to get. rewarded for that in South Korea because.

that is Justice that's why I work so. hard now in America hard work becomes. that means less and less because it's. all about the diversity of. inclusion Dakota equity and that. destroys civilization we have tried that. and nobody knows how to build anything. in North Korea if your father is a king. like Kim Jong-un he becomes a leader if. your father was a farmer you become a. farmer right.

and you cannot rise and I don't think. discriminating marriage is any good. thing it's a very dangerous path that we. are digging into. and people do that like. and not only that like at Colombia they. attack science. they said that math is racist. and this is the very first lesson that I. learned in nursing classroom My teacher. asked me one day what is one plus one I. said two and she said wrong because my.

dear literally discovered at a young age. adding one drop of water to another drop. of water it becomes bigger one. it doesn't become too. that's how he proved that math was made. up by white men. interesting Now in America they say the. same thing the math is made up gender is. made up this is a gender is a social. construct that with my environmental. control the minority. and I'm a woman like I'm never I can. never be a man.

like woman is a woman you have uterus. you have like you make eggs you have. different genetics. and now me saying this that I argued. with my professor one day I can never be. a man and she said you are brainwashed. and if it's a science even you gotta. debate that if you cannot question the. science in Korean America right now then. that's end of progress. if you cannot. challenge your science then there's no.

progress and if no progress means you. are getting destroyed that's a very. scary path that we're getting into yeah. so all these attacks and also about the. same thing that I was my teachers were. telling me how the most important thing. is my dear leader not my parents. now our children at school learning that. our parents are not safe because they. are bigots they're never gonna. understand you right they tell you that. your parents are not safe space if they.

don't accept who you are. legitimize everything that you feel you. gotta run away from them. we try to. destroy families get that high away. and destroy the state destroy the. institutions that does not have your. best interest. and sing those family bond is getting. destroyed in America every day and your. child is not yours anymore right they go. to school they learn that the all the. problems in the world right now we have.

is because of white men because of. greedy capitalism and I asked them like. without capitalism. these kids are Colombia wearing like 300. yoga pants on the green juice detox. because they are eating too much good. food. in their hand MacBook and internet on. the MacBook telling me how horrible. capitalism is I mean the characters they. would not have any of that they would. not be able to sit in the room where. there's air conditioning in there's.

electricity there's an internet to learn. the material. and they learn to hate capitalism. and the professor said that the only. solution to all these problems that we. have is a Communist Revolution. I'd like for you to sit there and listen. to that. I was I would never thought I did I go. back in North Korean classroom because. it was identical. how on Earth. after all that my journey to be free I.

come to sit in the classroom and learn. the same thing that I learned in North. Korean classroom. how it is possible. and how I'll be okay with that. because we know what happens if we. follow those ideologies we're going to. become like North Korea. that ideology drove North Korea China I. mean Soviet Union every country tried to. work with the ideology it brought death. to millions of human beings nothing has.

been more dangerous than this ideology. of collectivism and communism equity. and our politicians I mean our vice. president our presence. talk about how important fight for. Equity every day. and no equity is evil ideology this is a. complete evil. and if you say that now you're a. right-wing like a bigot I'm a CIA agent. they tell me I am trained by CIA to take.

this I'm like where is the CIA why are. they not calling me right like. and they say oh you are brainwashed by. Fox News so I'm like I came here in. America to not knowing what Fox news is. I did not know what conservative or or. like the liberal was when I was escaping. I Had No Agenda I had no idea what the. word was just I come here I recognize. the patterns that I see now. and pointing that out now that I'm on.

the Spy you know that's how they show. you down and kill your character it's. very interesting. how many different nationalities or. different immigrants are coming here and. they're starting to see the writing on. the role you hear it from Venezuelans. you hear from Cubans you hear from. Chinese Iranians you hear it from. Iranians you hear it from North Koreans. and. it's I mean it's do you feel like you're.

making Headway. in your mission. statement by bringing this stuff to. light. do you think people are paying attention. to me is when I do this work. um I was very shocked during the. pandemic. um. I thought I brought my son. the best thing I have done too was. giving the American passport giving him. this free country. unfortunately pandemic just began as. soon as he became he becomes a toddler.

learning how to walk. pandemic sets in in Chicago. I cannot like afford I have to send him. to daycare to work. at daycare he was forced to wear a mask. eight hours day up here. and they let the street clubs open next. door. others can gain go get drugs and high in. do whatever thing they want in the. street clubs. toddler who just barely had to walk at. two have to wear a mask up here eight. hours a day. there's nothing I could do about them.

and then. people saw me some mothers in the play. group in his playgroup saw me that I was. I guess classical liberal. talk to their Nanny that don't play with. my son because of me. and to me it's not about people are. making alone now I have no option. because this country is not that truly. free anymore. during the pandemic. it was not a science it was a Madness.

I was uh I was robbed on the street in. Chicago informed my son by black women. and they like broad life people this. girl was punching me and took my wallet. out and I was trying to call the cop on. these steps and people surrounding me. looking at me screaming at me why are. you doing this you're racist why are you. doing this why are you like because I'm. trying to call the cops on these tips.

they're on the problem because they can. never be oppressed right because of. their skin color. I don't deserve justice I don't deserve. compassion because of my skin color in. America. I mean this is another side of Madness. there's another side of Injustice. because I'm not a black I don't deserve. to be protected by the public I don't. deserve to call the cops and get help. from them. and I think this is a thing like people.

don't understand what the word would be. like without America. when I was escaping from North Korea. even the darkness I had a place to run. to I had hope I can escape to Freedom. I mean if America falls down where do we. escape. no place to go we don't this is the last. hope for Humanity this is the last hope. for me. and this is the only hope for my son. no matter people don't let go but it. doesn't matter have to fight because I.

know if we keep going this path of this. Equity version we are going to end up. like North Korea and and already like it. was so shocking to me Americans were. asking me and North Koreans are stupid. or something why don't they just start. Revolution. right and I'm like. so let me ask you like currently Now in. America you stand up is causing your job. your livelihood. and your reputation but in North Korea.

it costs three generations of your. children's your family's life. through life your kid's life yeah. and then in America even the price is. not that much people are cowards. they go to Corporation they follow the. diversity training they follow all this. nonsense they don't even know what that. means they do as they're told they do as. they're the following shiraki all these. people if I was alive the time of the. Holocaust I would have saved Anna Frank.

I would be the hero of saving all these. people I'm telling them yeah there are. 300 000 of North Korean women are going. through modern day Holocaust what are. you doing about it nothing. watching their Netflix. so the hypocrisy of these people. and but you should I mean that's the. thing. there's no alternative other than keep. fighting to me. so I think that's what I'm trying to. convey to American people it's not an. option to fight or not we have to do.

this if we don't do this if we don't. protect our freedom who's gonna do it. for us you know I was always saying. it's important to fight for Animals. rights there are so many of my friends. in New York City fight for climate. change five four little ducks you know. fight against Canada goose. you know fighting for dolphins and to me. they always ask me like why are you. fighting for human rights. and people ask like why do I have to. care about human rights.

we don't ever ask why do you have to. care about puppies right somehow when. you fight for human rights you always. have to tell them why you fight for it. because we are the only ones can fight. for human rights. dogs will not fight for us motions were. enough fight for us we are the one only. ones can fight for our rights as a human. beings yeah. yeah and somehow that is not someone. automatically understandable thing to. them. that is somehow is it a luxury that we.

should do you know we can only afford it. when we can. I think what you're saying is a mass. population of people who have had it. very easy. for a very long time yeah. they don't understand they don't it's. like. similar but completely different it's. similar to the mindset North Korea they. can't imagine yeah what freedom is like.

they have no they have no idea what. they're missing out on you know in life. and. then you know turn the tables and come. to America and they Americans most of. them cannot fathom what a life in North. Korea would be like or what a life in. Venezuela or Cuba or Russia or. Iran you know they cannot it doesn't it. doesn't even compute.

you know because if it did. then we wouldn't be seeing the that. we're seeing right now you know and. I don't know. The Divide has become so strong that I. don't know I don't know how to. I don't know how to bring this stuff to. light you know it's people like you they. have to bring it to light and and I. think the hardest part of what you have. to do is you have to bring the story to.

two different to two different sides of. this country yeah you have to bring it. to the right. to the conservative side you have to. bring it to the liberal side and in hope. to God that people are listening do you. do you feel. like people are listening I. it's interesting when I was. with my first book. um. had the media training by. the publisher and they gave me training.

not to talk about anything like you. remember I came to America first time. and somebody asked me like what do you. think about gone on even gone I said. that is the most important thing I've. ever heard imagine if North Korean. people had the guns. they're not gonna let them come ask your. mom or their children they're gonna. shoot them back even if I mean it. doesn't matter you're gonna get killed. anyway if we had guns governments what I. didn't kill all of us then who are they. gonna rule over right it makes no sense.

for them to kill all of their people. so there's no country ever can do that. to their citizens if the students have a. right to defend themselves. it was about that I was like of course. we should defend that right it's it's. the most important right I can ever see. as a free individual keep that live. routine they were like. okay what do you like to read it's like. I like to read John Stewart like mirrors. like on Liberty and basti as the law and. they were like. okay but just don't talk about that in.

public. because before even you start your fight. for an awesome people. they're gonna brand you as a. conservative writing. uh conspiracy theorists. so I had to avoid that for a long time I. did not talk about that I only talked. about it in the day. when I'm seeing the pandemic. how I was powerless raising my son in. Chicago there's nothing I do to make no.

sense it's mask-minded on my kid there's. nothing I could do you know they were. forcing him to do and what can I do. there's nothing I could do even though. children are safe. and they would open the dog parks. and then my son the children's. playground is closed in the hot summer. day in Chicago where the Sun hits the. playground it's an entire zero. and I was like dogs have more rice than. my child right now dogs can go dog parks. and play and run around my chart because.

he cannot go to playground and play. together. and I would feel so powerless at the. time and I was like. I'm not gonna repeat the history. I'm not gonna be like my grandmother. gonna be complete you know complying. with this control and when it comes to. me I did not know even that I was. oppressed. and I'm gonna fight everything I have. good for you good for you I love hearing.

that. well you know me I think that is a. perfect way to end this and um. I just want to say I I know how. I know how hard it can be to share. story I've not experienced anything even. close to that but. um I do know a little something about. internal trauma and I just I just want. to thank you for for being that. vulnerable and and sharing your.

experiences with my audience and and I. know it's going to have. a tremendous impact and I just thank you. and for everybody listening go by while. time remains Link's in the description. and uh and I. seriously it's been a real honor you. know hearing your story and getting to. know you and and thank you and I wish. you the best of luck thank you so much. you're welcome cheers. [Music].

hey everybody I'm Sean Ryan click here. to subscribe to the Sean Ryan Show. YouTube channel for the hottest and most. compelling interviews that you will not. see anywhere else I've also made a. playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find you can. find that. right here.