Vivek Ramaswamy - Making Ohio Tax Free, DeepSeek, DOGE and the Education Crisis | SRS #169

[Music]. V welcome back for the third time it's. good to see you man good to see you A. lot's happened since last time I like. this studio because I I do a lot of. these meetings or podcasts or whatever. and it's super hot and you're sweaty not. with Sean Ryan you have a similar belief. and conviction in air conditioning as I.

do yeah yeah so thank you for that like. a nice chill like a nice chill but same. thing yeah but uh yeah saw you at the. inaugurations yep yeah we saw you there. Army Navy game we've SE seen a couple. times yep yep thanks for getting me in. there yeah that was it was fun and uh. but yeah so A lot's happened you know. since since I saw you last especially. since we interviewed and so you know lot. of good a lot of good stuff to cover. today but I got to ask yeah come on are.

you running for a governor in Ohio or. what's going on here I mean I got to. wait to formally announce it but that is. the direction I'm headed so late. February man we'll have a big. announcement coming I love it I love it. um what what moved you from you know the. I mean you ran for president you're. going to run for governor likely and so. what what was the shift why did you. decide to concentrate more on state well. look it's a couple reasons I mean one is. if we get the job done I say we as a.

movement but Donald Trump gets the job. done over the next couple of years at. the federal level the action shifts to. the states in two to three years take. the Department of Education dismantle. the Department of Education dismantle a. lot of these Regulatory Agencies when in. doubt my advice has always been kick it. to the states what our founding fathers. envisioned we live in a system of. federalism so I'm just looking at where. I can have the biggest possible impact. and a lot of the issues that I've been. most focused on on in substance not just.

tearing down the administrative state. but education for example that can't be. led by the federal government it has to. be led by the states and I had a good. time you know over the last year helping. president Trump in whatever way I could. bringing young people along in the. Coalition help him get elected started. off with Doge help get that off the. ground but where I Look to where the. puck is going if we get that job done at. the federal level tear down the. bureaucracy downsize the federal. government it's going to require real. leaders at the state level to catch the.

pieces and I realized when I'm looking. at that that's a couple years down the. road I wanted to skate to where I. thought the puck was going why do you. say why do you say it's all moving to. the state I mean I I had a very. interesting conversation with Eric. Prince quite a while ago on here and. this is smart guy yeah interesting dude. um love talking to Eric but but he he. kind of changed my mind said you know a. lot of people were worried how this. election was going to go MH and and Eric.

kind of put it in my head you know that. hey the states might be even more. important than the federal government. and we should be focusing maybe more on. on local municipalities and and and and. state government rather than fed federal. government because that's what affects. your immediate area that you live in and. you know and it it just it really. resonated with me and so how would it's. I mean you're saying it starts with the. federal government by basically yeah.

what what happen right now is the. federal government is doing all the. things that it shouldn't be doing while. failing to do the few things that it. should be doing what are the few things. the federal government should be doing. one key responsibility is protecting the. homeland of its Nation the United States. of America the sovereignty of the US. starts even with the physical. sovereignty of the US basic borders we. have not done basic border control. control in this country we've had more. illegal entry at the southern border. than we've ever had in our national. history that is a failure of theed. federal government we could go on the.

other failures too we are lacking. defense systems we're lacking cyber. defense systems super EMP defense. systems so the National Defense function. of actually defending our own Homeland. forget in meddling around in other. countries our own Homeland we've already. failed to do that but that's because the. federal government is in part focused on. doing a bunch of things that it. shouldn't have been doing in the first. place regulating Industries you got a. Department of Education that's meddling. in the way that we educate our kids. thinking about impediments to nuclear. energy in the United States starts with.

the nuclear Regulatory Commission at the. federal level it's doing a bunch of. things that fall outside of what our. founding fathers envisioned in the. Constitution the Constitution says. article one here's what's actually the. powers of congress to legislate and if. it's not in article one Congress doesn't. have the power to do it the 10th. Amendment says that which is not. reserved to the federal government is. reserved respectively to the states and. to the people so if you can't find the. reservation of authority in the. Constitution there's very specific.

categories of what Congress is able to. do if it's not one of those categories. that means by definition the rest is. left to the states a big Frontier that's. on a lot of people's minds for example. is education the federal government. should basically have no role in shaping. K through 12 or frankly even higher. education that is left to the states and. part of our model was we want States. competing with one another right the. same principle of in capitalism that. causes us to create value or businesses. compete with one another competition.

breeds Innovation that's what our. founding fathers envisioned if you read. The Federalist Papers with respect to. our model of federalism anyway and so. when I looked at and obviously ran for. president I think that's the highest. impact position you could possibly have. and I think Donald Trump is the man for. our hour and the man for this moment but. when you look at the other way the next. most impactful way at least for me where. I could say here are things I could do. through Public Service as a leader where. you see tangibly the impact of actually. the decisions you make.

it wasn't even close where you would. have that large impact it was his. governor and among elected office that's. that was the that was the place that was. drawn to look next and that's that's the. way our country is supposed to actually. work where you got people leaving. California and New York and droves where. are they headed right now they're going. to Florida and Texas you know Tennessee. since it's gone to effectively zero tax. has been more successful you got States. other states that are largely blue. states that they're leaving but Ohio is.

kind of interesting in this regard it's. a red State it's a conservative. state but at least as of last year it. was still number 38 in terms of people. leaving versus netting coming to the. country coming to the state yeah and I. think that leaves a lot of room for. improvement it's a state that in a lot. of ways have been headed in the right. direction but I think right now we need. a governor not only in that state but. across the country Governors who were. willing to step on the gas and actually. govern conservative populations with. conservative principles to do it.

unapologetically and to take on the. problems that the federal government. can't actually solve in its own right. you know um I want to dig more into that. but when it comes to these droves of. people that are leaving the blue States. and coming to Red States yeah and you. know I think a lot of people are really. upset with policies in the in in the. blue States especially California sure. you know I'm sure there's getting ready. to be another big influx as soon as. these insurance companies started paying. out for all these fires because of the. mishaps and what on there but you know.

something that I hear Tennessee is. getting overrun with with with people. fleeing their states and you know while. it's great to have all these new people. coming in it's it's it's it's pricing. all of the locals that that made this. state what it is today it's driving them. out with with with the with the home. prices with with you know with inflation. it's just driving everything up. especially especially in this County and. so is there I mean is there any way to I.

mean what are your thoughts on that do. you want Ohio to become that so I don't. want Ohio to become Silicon Valley and. frankly I don't even want Ohio to become. Texas or Florida even though those are. well-run states I want Ohio to be the. best version of itself actually I mean. what Silicon Valley was to the American. economy for the last 20 years I think. Ohio the Ohio River Valley can be for. the next 20 it's not going to be through. bits that silicon Valley's model but. what I call through atoms through. production of stuff of actual tangible.

things that we require in the defense. industry and you look at building up our. defense industrial base Aerospace. Innovation Ohio is actually a great. state for that wide open planes you have. no spaceports in the state right now a. great history with John Glenn first. American to orbit the earth you got Neil. Armstrong first person in the world to. walk the moon those are Ohio ones right. so you have a great tradition there of. production even in BIO in biotech and. medical production whole opportunities I. think it' be a crypto state that leads. the way in crypto and Bitcoin Innovation.

you go the distance I want Ohio to be at. the Leading Edge of also using AI not. just to take jobs which is what people. worry about but actually to make jobs if. you train workforces to use AI you. increase productivity so Silicon Valley. is focused on training algorithms I. think if you're focused on training. people to use AI you can actually. increase their productivity probably. tenfold in a way that doesn't take those. jobs so I don't want Ohio to imitate. Silicon Valley or try to be something. that not or try to be Texas or Florida.

we got four seasons up there it's a real. State there's a reality to it if you go. 100 mile radius of Columbus draw a. little circle around that that's a. cross-section of the country I grew up. in Cincinnati built my first business in. New York before we had kids I wanted to. go back to Ohio because we don't want to. raise our kids in Manhattan and so I. don't want to pretend to be something. else I want it to be the best version of. ourselves but yeah I want to open arms. to people from Patriots from across the. country to say that if you want to live. in a state where you're able to pursue.

economic Excellence you know turn a. state into a a kind of special. regulatory economic zone from any of. these industries to say that you don't. want regulatory overreach to get in your. way great come to Ohio if you want to. come to a state where your kids are able. to actually get a good education on. reading and writing and math which is a. major problem in our country I want. those people coming in but without. creating some of the issues you've seen. in housing markets and other in in. places like like you know Tennessee even.

look at what's happened in markets like. Austin how do you do that well first go. back to the philosophy of what causes a. lot of those inflationary spikes are. Supply constraints so part of the reason. housing costs have gone up so much is. that we don't actually permit new house. construction or new home construction at. the rate that we should because there. are barriers especially even in single. family home type communities to say that. if there a family home of a certain size. and the lot size is less than a certain.

amount a half acre or whatever you can't. build a new home that actually prices. especially young families out of the. market because you have a constraint on. Supply so my general philosophy is we. want to increase the supply of. everything that includes the supply of. housing it includes the supply of energy. it also includes the supply of people. because that is actually something that. allows a business to grow is if you have. talented people in your state American. Patriots to hire that's great but if you. increase the supply of both energy and. housing and everything else required for.

those people to live affordable lives. that's how you match the demand going up. you got to also match the supply going. up of those things too and I don't think. those things have been done as well in. some of these states that you know were. attractive places to live MH but you. have the influx you got to be prepared. to really increase for example the. supply of housing really increase the. supply of energy in a way that keeps. those costs down what about what about. stuff. like the more.

traditional generational occupations. like farming like I mean I don't know. how I mean like farmer here you know. here in this County I mean they you sell. a thousand acres here I mean you're. looking. at probably a couple hundred million you. know and so you have these Farms these. cattle farms and all these people that. are mean I know it's it's probably for. the greater good I don't I mean I don't. know you know I I know it it definitely. boosts the economy but I mean farmers.

are just getting run out of here I mean. it's totally they can't they can't. sustain you know a thousand acre cattle. ranch when they can sell it for a couple. hundred million and then the other thing. well I'll let you go I'll let you riff. off that no no go ahead yeah but but. then the other thing is you know and. this isn't just my opinion I mean you. can look at any Facebook group you can. hear the local gossip around town and. you know the big worry is is this in. flux of people from California New York.

New Jersey. Michigan um. Minnesota uh Wisconsin I mean is is are. they going to flip the state you know. everybody's worried you know are we. going to start seeing the things in the. schools here that you saw where you came. from. and it's I mean it's it's a huge worry. and so I don't know it seems like here. it might I don't I was would like to see. the growth slow a little bit and and so.

is is there a way to do that yeah I mean. I think all us depends on where you are. in the state's Journey as well right if. you look at where Nashville was 15 years. ago it's not exactly where Nashville is. today so if you're not prepared for that. influx it could have a detrimental. impact all else equal do you want to be. a state that people want to move into. versus one that people want to move out. of you probably want to be in the state. that people want to move into because. they want to move into there for good. reasons same thing as the country do we. want to be in a country where the you.

know you open the border under Biden. what did you see people wanted to go one. way and not the other well you'd rather. live in the country that people want to. come to but you got to protect yourself. at the level of a nation that means the. hard border at the level of a state what. it means is actually anchoring who you. are and staying true to that North Star. in a way that says great we're happy if. more people want to flock here but it's. part of the mission of who we actually. are rather than changing who we are. because eventually you're then going to. be a state that people eventually want. to get out of anyway so in the long run.

I think it's a pretty good metric if. people want to move in rather than out. the the way I want to I would love to. lead Ohio is as a state of Excellence. economic excellence and educational. Excellence all right if people you have. nine states that are zero tax states if. you want to be a state that people are. actually flocking to it's table Stakes. at this point I think that people should. be able to keep what they make property. taxes I mean this is actually true in. probably multiple of our states. are getting increasingly insane where if.

you have a high enough property tax what. it does is it effectively says you don't. own your property your property becomes. a permanent lease from the government. and you have a bunch of shackles that. stop people from actually starting new. businesses what most of them moving to. Texas is because probably the most. favorable environment for an. entrepreneur right now to build a new. business is in the state of Texas I want. that to be in the state of. Ohio did you know that studies show that. 80% of resolutions fail by February you.

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intended to diagnose treat cure or. prevent any disease or. condition even though I'm excited for. the new Administration there's a lot of. tension in the world Russia Ukraine the. Border inflation who knows what could. happen next me I'm not waiting around to. find out and I don't think you should. either look it's simple I want you to go. to shaikes gold.com you'll learn about. my partners over at goldco they're a. great precious Metals company that I.

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do everything in your power to help. protect what's yours performance may. vary consult with your tax attorney or. financial professional before making an. investment. decision so you think about education. economic Excellence that's great I think. where we haven't really had a model in. the country yet what I would like to. create as a model is what does. educational Excellence actually look. like and I think this is the one where. as a parent you have kids I do you do.

yeah how old are yours one and three all. right pretty similar zip code to us as a. fun age I've got soon to be 5-year-old. and a 2-year-old who's going to turn. three in. July this is the problem that at the. level of our nation nobody is actually. seriously talking about both on the left. or on the right I think Republicans have. been better than Democrats we have a. massive achievement crisis in the United. States of America America he got 75% of.

eighth graders they are not proficient. in math compared to International. standards 70% of them aren't proficient. in reading and the worst part is now. you're starting to see there's other. countries where English isn't even their. first. language where kids in those countries. are more proficient in English better. performing in English than our own kids. right here at home where English is our. only language that's insane it's. unacceptable and the thing about this I. mean it goes to the first con ation we. had about where the action is in terms.

of government and our impact is it at. the federal level or the state level. right now this year definitely Federal. level because Biden and the past had. done so much damage that Trump has to. undo a lot of that at a fast and furious. Pace but if he's successful as I expect. he's going to be you roll the tape a few. years. forward fixing education is not. something that's done by the federal. government so who's going to fix that. educational. crisis yes we have a lot of woke Dei. issues I mean I was the chief Dei.

Crusader anti- Dei Crusader what four or. five years ago when I wrote woke Inc and. criticized the spread of wokeism through. Corporate America and other parts of our. culture but now that we're about to. enter not quite there but we're about to. enter the post Dei era the post woke era. we got to still admit to ourselves that. that was part of the problem but it. wasn't the entire problem accounting for. this achievement crisis as well and so. how do we prepare ourselves to say okay. well there's more people moving in and. tough you know we have tough times let's.

talk about the next 20 years I think. what we want is a generation of. Americans who's actually equipped to. compete because at the end of the day. China isn't looking the other way and. giving us some sort of participation. trophy at the end of it for complaining. we can't be victims we got to be. Victorious and I do think that lighting. a fire under the feet of our educational. system to prioritize achievement in math. Reading Writing. critical thinking physical fitness by.

the way I think that we've gone soft on. this bring back early physical education. bring back the Presidential Fitness Test. we used to do that you know I don't know. I mean most kids are not probably able. to do the level of pull-ups the kids. were able to do what 30 40 years ago I. think it goes to implications for mental. health I think it goes to implications. for military preparedness I think we. have to have an education system that. demands more of ourselves and that has. to be driven by the states actually you.

think about knowing about the United. States I love how many American flags. you have in this room you know imbus a. good sense of patriotism that we. sometimes you know leave behind for our. kids most kids today who graduate from. high school can't even pass the same. Civics exam that we require of a legal. immigrant before they become a citizen I. think every High School senior who. graduates from high school as a. requirement should have to pass that. test I it's a basic. condition of citizenship in a nation is.

that you know something about your. nation in order to be a fully informed. citizen of that Nation so I we got to. got to you know get tough a little bit. when it comes to some of these issues. relating to the revitalization of of our. Young Generation Well I think a lot of I. think a lot of people are ready for that. I mean homeschool is on a massive rise. right now do you homeschool so we. started that way yeah I mean I think. that this year we were on that track and. then we you know for our son felt our.

older guy we felt that he might have bit. benefit with the socialization but we're. big fans of. homeschooling I think the school choice. in Most states so Tennessee is in this. category has school choice Ohio has. school choice it doesn't cover. homeschooling that needs to change I. mean educational Choice means full. models of choice and you got a lot of. people coming through homeschooling. backgrounds where those kids are doing. better even than kids who are educated. even in expensive private schools or. public charter schools but I'm not like. a one-size fits all Guy saying.

homeschooling for everybody and we get. into this debate as well in higher. education sometimes both sides will fall. into this trap that it's all about. fouryear college degrees only and that's. the only path to the American dream or. you got the reactionary backlash that'll. say oh no colleg is college is not for. you know college is a scam nobody should. go there it's only for two-year and. Vocational degrees and apprenticeships. that's the way to go whether Tire. education or k through2. education I don't want a one siiz fits. all approach I want everybody to be able.

to choose what the actual best path is. for them that's not a system we have. right now and I do think that Universal. school choice should actually you're. going to call it that should be. Universal in including homeschooling as. the right option I think some parents. would tell you this too I mean you we've. got kids young kids each ourselves years. are a little younger but you'll probably. notice this even more over time they're. different even in the same household. right you're raising them in the same.

household under the same circumstances. you know one of them is a younger. sibling and one of them is older so it's. different for each of them that way but. private school or public school might be. the right option for one of them and. homeschooling might be the right option. for the other one it might change over. different parts of their upbringing and. the people to know what's best for their. kid all else equal is a parent and I. think that right now people in wealthy. families at least have the opportunity. to hire home help or Nannies or Tutors. or private school tuition or whatever it. is that's not where I'm worried it's the.

Civil Rights issue of our time that. actually the very people that so-called. bleeding heart liberals have been. bleeding their hearts over people in. inner cities people struggling with. making ends meet single parent. households they're the ones who actually. left hold in the bag where their kids. don't have that level of choice and so I. do think this is I think I don't think. it's an exaggeration to call this the. Civil Rights issue of our time I would. call it that and I hope that that's. going to bring along not just you know. additional Republican support but you.

think about anybody who's a parent wants. to be able to choose their choose to be. able to send their kid to the best. school they can and even in the public. schools one of the things we don't have. in this country right now is merit-based. pay for teachers I mean you run a. business of sorts right I've run. businesses generally the way it works is. the people who do the best job in. creating value for the business are. compensated more than those who don't do. as good of a job in creating value for. that business or that fund or that. investment firm or. whatever why should it work any.

differently in public schools I mean no. it shouldn't I mean we got metri sense. you've got clear metrics and so there. isn't a state in the country right now. that does this there is no merit-based. pay for teachers and principls and. administrators so I want Ohio to be the. first state that implements not just. Universal school choice Universal. including homeschooling but also for the. public schools to compete implements. merit-based pay for teachers. administrators principles where where. your pay you should be paid a lot more.

than you are now I think the best. teachers are vastly underpaid should be. paid far more when tied to the actual. outcomes they deliver and conversely. those who aren't delivering outcomes. shouldn't be paid at that same level and. in some cases should actually not be on. that job at all and and I do think that. that's got to be done with leaders who. have a spine to that's I mean that's a. big fight to pick I'm not looking to. pick fights for the sake of picking. fights but that's one there's a reason. why that doesn't exist in any of the 50. states I think that is our path out of.

this educational achievement crisis how. in the weeds have you gotten in into. that subject I mean how how would it be. done yeah I mean it's not overly. complicated right it could be done with. the one one model is to collaborate with. the. unions I'm not going to and I don't I. don't believe in just picking fights for. the sake of picking fights being. conservative without being combative is. is a fine approach if that works so you. could talk to the people who were. members of a public teachers union and. say that you know what here's how we're. going to do this but if there are union.

objections it is my view that if a. public sector Union particularly I'm. going to put fire and police in. different category where where this. doesn't apply to them but if public. teachers unions are unionizing you got. to ask yourself who are they actually. unionizing. against in many cases it ends up being. the best interests of the kids they're. actually serving and I say this to. somebody who. believes that the best teachers in the. country right now are vastly underpaid.

and underr for the work they do I want. to see the best ones actually paid more. so either you do it in collaboration. with the teachers unions or you have to. be willing to say that that's not a. sacred cow anymore that somehow we can't. touch to the contrary if teachers unions. and the existence of public teachers. unions are in the way of getting that. job done then we need to fix that system. okay I guess I guess what comes to my. mind is where I think you might run into. problems and maybe you've thought. through this is you know just looking.

back what were. EAS physical education sure art home. economics you know stuff like that that. was pretty much a wash and so how do you. how do you put them on the pay on the. same pay scale as somebody that's. teaching calculus at a at a at a junior. in high school level you know more. challenging course that people are going. to struggle with more or do you see what. I'm saying no absolutely I think I think.

you got to it's a great point I think. you got to have market-based approaches. for pricing each one so I don't think. they're going to be paid at the same. level but my point is more not who's. paid more between somebody who's got you. got very few of those calculus teachers. available where you might have a greater. supply of other teachers in earlier. education that's one question the. question I'm stating is all of the. people who are teaching calculus and all. of the people who are teaching PE and. all of the people who are teaching. social studies are in public schools. paid flat at the same same level and I'm. saying within each of those categories.

right whatever the market rate is for. each of those that's a separate question. and that should be you know a little bit. of a little bit of supply and demand. right if you got very few people in an. essential category where we need to. educate our kids those people are going. to have to be paid more than somebody. who's in a category where you could find. you know 10 other people to do the job. but within each category the way the. public teachers work right now public. school teachers work is that no matter. whether they're really good no matter. whether they're really bad they are paid.

flat the same way with exceptions only. for seniority which is how long you've. been there or whether or not you have a. degree in an advanced degree the. evidence actually shows that there's no. correlation between having the advanced. degree and being a better teacher in. most subject areas and there's. definitely no argument that seniority. makes that difference either so my point. is within each of those categories tie. it to actual outcomes and Merit and the. biggest OB you get is well who picks the.

outcome right and if you have just a. testing based outcome are they just. going to teach to the test my first. response to that is you can't let the. you know whatever the old expression is. you can't let the perfect be the enemy. of the good and I agree with that the. perfect should not the enemy of the good. the status quo of the bad is the enemy. of the good which is the fact that. you've got a massive underachievement. crisis in the United States the facts I. mentioned earlier where I'll tell you. what bad is is 75% of eighth graders not. knowing how to be proficient in math but. the other thing is it doesn't have to. just be the test I think it should be a.

composite of a number of different. factors on the table could be parents. assessments of the teachers which I. don't think is a bad starting point. either ultimately not to say that. parents or catering to the parent is the. only model or the right answer for the. teacher but that's probably a good first. best place to start you could have. independent peer reviewed analysis you. could also then tie that to tests and. objective metrics being an important. part of that outcome is that going to be. a perfect system maybe there's no such. thing as aect perfect. system but I'll tell you what's far.

worse is having a system where. compensation and promotions are totally. agnostic to the actual performance of. kids coming out of that system and the. reason why is in some ways the people. who make the decisions aren't the ones. who are actually have skin in the game. it's not it's not their kids or it's not. really their outcome that matters their. pay isn't tied to it half of public. school pay half of public school dollars. right now I think it's over half it's. like 52% of public school dollars right.

now aren't even spent on instruction. it's on a bunch of other stuff. Administration bureaucracy you have you. know building construction or building. amenities you need some level of. infrastructure for sure but I think it. is insane that a majority of dollars. flowing into public schools nationally. don't even go towards instruction or. towards those teachers and so my view is. those teachers do need to be the best of. the teachers absolutely need to be paid. a lot more than they are right now and. the union the equalizing effect that's.

actually the obstacle that gets in the. way and do it by category right another. example would be the inner cities well. how are you going to penalize people in. like a poor neighborhood versus a better. neighborhood to the contrary it might. actually be the opposite because you're. looking at the rate of improvement right. so if you're starting from a low. Baseline and you have a force of nature. of a teacher who comes in and is able to. demonstrate a scale of improvement that. school hasn't seen that's what you're. indexing the actual Merit base pay to is. the actual rate of improvement there's. all kinds of questions on implementation.

and it could get pretty technical pretty. quickly but the base principle is do we. actually believe in am meritocracy in. education in America do we actually. believe in am meritocracy in amongst. Educators in America and I think if we. do that will be the most important thing. we can take up the most important tool. in our toolkit to solve the problem in. our educational achievement crisis that. frankly too few people are talking about. right now makes a hell of a lot of sense. to me and what I what I meant by The.

Homeschool thing is I think that that. people people realize that the education. system is is failing in in a multitude. of ways and they're they're they're just. taking matters into their own hands cuz. what else can you do and so yeah I think. that makes a hell of a lot of sense when. it back to Ohio and you had. mentioned Ai and training people how to. use AI there's a there's a lot of fear. that AI is going to take over editors.

they're going to take over attorneys. they're going to take over doctors. they're going all these all these. occupations uh have a lot of fear you. know that AI is going to take over and. so how is AI actually going to create. jobs I mean the first thing to say is. that you got to believe if you got to. believe that you're going to stop. something from happening before you turn. that into a decision and at a certain. point in time you got other countries. that are going to leverage AI to beat. out the United States regardless that I. think the better question to ask is how.

are we going to best use AI not only to. make the United States competitive and. at the Leading Edge of all other. countries but also in a way that. actually makes people's lives better. including those of workers I think part. of what you're seeing is that can. actually enhance the productivity of a. lot of workers what I see right now. though is a massive imbalance Sean. between the quantity of investment and. we're talking trillions of dollars of. investment going into training new AI. models algorithms.

code versus the amount actually going. into training human beings on how to use. AI in each of those fields I think fast. forward 10 years from now you're not. going to eliminate the existence of. lawyers or doctors or nurses nor should. we want that I mean there are certain. areas we're going to need human to human. contact it's Irreplaceable but it's not. just even the human- to human contact at. a emotional touchy feely level it's at. the level of people who are operating. and using and asking the right question. questions of an AI that's actually giv. you the right answers and we're not.

train right now nobody has really given. thought to what that training modality. looks like right and and I I hate using. the term the trades versus other. professions because it sort of looks. down on the trades I think it was. probably I think it was Mike Row might. have been somebody who came up with the. artisanal professions I love that term. that's great I think we need more people. trained in artisanal professions and. that's a separate conversation for. carpenters and welders and mechanics and. plumbers and builders. but I think we need to think about a a. separate category which is not just the.

so-called you know genius model of the. person who's creating a new AI model we. need that too but what we're missing out. on right now is training a generation to. leverage that to change the way they. already practice their profession from. engineering to medicine to law to even. day-to-day management of you know I. think I think it's probably a m massive. business opportunity for somebody to. take up a serious enter R busino. business training Enterprise that.

actually makes sure those workforces. aren't replaced by AI but are actually. enhanced in their productivity by Ai and. I think that that's a opportunity that. we would miss if we just sort of stayed. in the clouds and worried about it and. tried to all play ourselves the victim. card other countries aren't going to be. doing that anyway we might as well all. pull up our pants and actually figure. out how we're going to train ourselves. to make the most of it and I think we'll. actually be better off and you know. talked earli about inflation bringing. down cost well if the cost of providing.

a good or service it's pretty expensive. to get medical care it's pretty. expensive to get a lawyer to defend. yourself or to or to pursue some sort of. legal claim you need to pursue it's Out. Of Reach for many people to be able to. even make ends meet on getting a basic. physical exam or a medical test that. follows from it without adequate. insurance if the cost of providing those. things come down to say that you don't. necessarily need somebody who has been. through four years of college then four. years of medical school and then 7 years. of a surgical training or residency.

before they can have the license to then. still have to be a human being to have. to search the Encyclopedia of their. brain to give you an answer but instead. have somebody who was trained as a. physician's assistant or a nurse. practitioner who with the aid and. experience of day-to-day human contact. can have ai whose encyclopedia and. ability to access it as far in excess of. that trained physician who you still. need to do a lot of things but in the. meantime you're serving a lot more. people at a lower cost that opens up.

more jobs for those nurses that opens. more jobs for those Physicians. assistants even though it might mean. fewer Physicians who have gone through. the full rigor of what it currently. meant to be a physician 10 years ago and. that doesn't mean we don't need those. people either we need those people too. it's just going to change the. composition of a Workforce that I think. the worst of all. worlds is one where AI is here whether. we like it or not we sit here with an. armchair concern about oh no what are we. going to do about it when it takes our. job jobs that's actually going to be a. situation where it's more likely to.

erode and take jobs and disrupt. communities than one in which we say. here's what we actually value what are. our actual values as a state or as a. country we want good people who work. hard to be able to live the American. dream that includes the ability to not. only amass great wealth for themselves. but to live affordable lives as you're. pursuing your passion whatever that may. be then you ask the question of okay got. this new toolkit coming along how do we. best leverage that to achieve that. American dream and I do think one of the. areas where we're underinvested today is.

in Workforce training to use AI which I. think is an opportunity interesting. interesting any aspirations to take Ohio. taxfree yes really I think it's I mean I. do think it's table Stakes right you got. seven eight nine states that are doing. it not saying that can happen with the. flip of a switch but is an aspirational. goal right is is it a goal a destination. to be table Stakes that you're competing. to be if you want to be the if you want. to be a state that people are flocking. into rather than out of I do think that.

eventually it's going to be table Stakes. to be zero income tax states to have. states with the low property tax burden. in states that like Texas today are. closer to being regulatory sandboxes for. many industries by which I mean you know. it's kind of low burden regulation to be. able to draw industry into that state I. think that's that's almost table stake. stuff for economic Excellence I think. the harder stuff to deliver and in the. long run equally important is the. educational Excellence but when you.

think about you know Tennessee why is it. doing well why are people moving to. North Carolina it's not quite down to. zero but it's on its way on its way. stair stepping down to it I just think. people have a basic. hunger Justified demand to keep what. they actually earn and if they could. pack their bags and move somewhere. else unfortunately that's what you see. them doing and many people in Ohio will. go sit in Florida for six months in a. day and pretend like it's about the. weather when it wasn't about the weather.

it was about 6 months in a day for a. reason many of them I mean I've got. people friends I know in the Ohio and. Greater Columbus Community who do this. all the time they would rather be in. Columbus the whole time and so I don't. think that it's a great service to a. state but the beauty is that's why. people Le in California and New York. despite one of the most naturally. beautiful regions and states on the. planet it's California people still. packing their bags and moving I think if. you have a. confiscatory environment as they I think. they do in California eventually people. going to pack their bags and go.

especially if they're not even getting. the value out of the taxes they're. paying this episode is sponsored by Roa. Roa is a performance eyewear brand for. people who want to invest in themselves. Roa manufactures premium sunglasses. prescription eyeglasses and readers and. cuts all of their lenses here in the US. at their Headquarters in Austin Texas. Roa recently partnered with one of my. favorite guests Dr Andrew huberman to.

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caveat to that is you know through Co we. saw this big you know Uprising in in. remote work yeah and so how do. you how would a. state so basically what I'm getting at. is how do you keep people from these. states coming in and remote working from. let's say Ohio Ohio's ATT it turns into. a taxfree state. how do you keep these influx of of.

people from the from from astronomical. taxes you know like California you know. how do you keep them they moved to Ohio. they're still working in California. technically because they're remote. workers I want their companies moving. Ohio I mean I think that's a big part of. that's a big part of even what you're. seeing with other companies. reincorporating from places like. California to Texas I want Ohio to be. the place where they're actually. reincorporated and moving so if you have. enough of the workers moving I want the. company itself come in wholesale the. divisions of the company to the place. where the next economic boom is actually.

happening and a lot of the ways in which. I think we're going to lead is in. Silicon Valley on one hand you. have bits right leadership in bits. computer programming maybe that's remote. work stuff a lot of the areas of the. future I think are going to have to be. in the form of production once again in. the second Second Industrial Revolution. of our country oh high was at the. Leading Edge for the first Industrial. Revolution even all the way through the. 50s a lot of people don't know this in. the 1950s Toledo was the glass capital.

of the world many people may not even. know Toledo he say you know his city. city with a rich history in northwest. Ohio glass capital of the world akan the. rubber Capital you have Youngstown in. Cleveland that were steel capitals of. the United States Dayton was a computing. power capital for the Industrial. Revolution it's where the rght Patterson. Air Force Base is today but it was a. computing power Capital back then. Cincinnati is my hometown was the queen. city was known as the Queen City it was. a consumer products Capital they called. it poropos it was a meat leading meat.

producer these are some of the. wealthiest states in the union dialed. back about a century I think even in the. 50s by 1950 it was six of the top 15. wealthiest cities in America like the. equivalent of San Francisco and Miami. and Los Angeles and New York that was. actually that was actually Ohio six of. the top 15 so I think if you skate to. where the puck is going not try to. imitate you know what Silicon Valley was. and also by the way they've got great.

competitive Talent there that I don't. think it's realistic to say that we're. going to recreate Silicon Valley in Ohio. neither is it realistic nor is it. desirable but looking at areas where. you're going to have to actually produce. in order to lead think about Aerospace. production and Innovation think about. defense industrial based production you. know andural actually just recently. built out a major facility in Ohio. announced the building of a major one. you know very recently yeah. semiconductor production so we're. beginning to see the demand for natural.

attributes of people to leave to parts. of the country where they're able to. find different kinds of workforces than. just in the you know in the in the. insular nature of Silicon Valley. wherever they may live that's a real. opportunity but there need to be policy. changes to make that possible and I do. think that being zero tax being. effectively a regulatory economic safe. Zone to be able to say that if you want. to grow a business here without really. worrying about the red tape associated. with doing so this is the state to do it.

that's the part that policy it's up to. policy makers to deliver but if we do. yeah I do think that Ohio was a frontier. State before there was a frontier and I. think it can be a frontier State again. it just requires actually acting like. one interesting interesting love it I. love talk to you you always know your. stuff it's great especially you know the. history of Ohio and all those cities. it's actually really I mean the history. I mean some of this is yeah got the you. know GL and next time it won't be the. glass in the rubber Capital that's not.

what I'm promising it's not going to be. glass and rubber next time around it'll. be chips AI crypto Aerospace biotech. Innovation drug Discovery you go. straight down the sectors AI training. for workforces you can't look and drive. with the your eye in the rear of your. mirror but take the spirit of that to go. to the Future itself I told you about. Aerospace the legacy of John Glenn and. Neil Armstrong half of this is Reviving. self-confidence man. I think. that you may be aware of this as like an.

internet meme and it it it obviously GRS. on me when I see it but when somebody. says on Tik Tock oh that's so. Ohio what they mean is it's it's like. denigrating that it's old it's out of. fashion it's. boring I'd love to lead Ohio to a place. where what 20 years from now 10 years. from now 5 years from now when we're. sending new rockets to outer space when. we're actually having exploration parts. of the moon or even Mars that we haven't. previously touched when we're curing a.

form of a disease a rare disease that. was previously incurable I want people. to say that's so Ohio at that point in. time that I think is the self-confidence. right when Neil Armstrong and John Glenn. grew up in Ohio it was at a time when. six of the 15 wealthiest cities were in. Ohio it was at a time where Toledo was. the glass capital and akan was the. rubber Capital to say that I'm proud as. a citizen of the United States of. America and I'm proud of the place where. I live without having to apologize for. it or feeling like I'm a second tier. kind of Citizen or second tier kind of. economic region in my own Nation that's.

what builds the self-confidence to say. I'm going to go to outter space and it's. not an accident that a bunch of those. happen in the same state at the same. time I mean Ard had Ohio Roots the wri. brothers were right there in Dayton it's. about creating a virtuous cycle of. self-confidence and you see this in. sports sometimes it's sort of a weird. analogy but I think it I think there's. something there where like I'm a tennis. fanatic right you see Roger Federer. Rafael Nadal Novak jokovic all at the.

exact same time it's it's mathematically. arithmetically you wouldn't predict this. but the three guys who won the most. grand slams in history so in a sport. that's been around for a really long. time the ultimate metric is there's four. grand slams a year who won the most. grand slams number one two and. three were playing at the same time as. each each other and like that doesn't. make any sense cuz there's only four a.

year so if one of the three wins that. means the other two aren't and yet the. three greatest of all time we're playing. at the exact same time it's because it. creates a culture that has a feedback. loop on itself and so every one of these. successes isn't just an isolated success. it's about part of creating a culture of. success and I do think that right now. you. know it happens at the level of America. America as a nation and I think in a. microcosm I think it's happened at the. level of Ohio as a state where people.

have lost their conviction in their. citizenship in their country and in this. case in their state too so Donald Trump. is Reviving our conviction in America I. think he's got that covered we're only a. few weeks into the presidency and I just. think the number one thing he is going. to have delivered a year in isn't even. the important stuff of sealing the. Border he's going to do all these things. seal the Border grow the economy stop. the Foreign Wars negotiate settlements.

where needed to keep us out of funding. foreign interests that don't Advance our. own objectives at home ending government. waste ending backdoor censorship all of. it he's on top of it he's on the case. he's going to do it but I think the. number one thing he's actually going to. have tangibly delivered come a year from. now is a Revival of conviction in. America and I think that's great he's. got that. covered I'm interested in Reviving our. conviction in Ohio and I do think that.

there is there's a deficit there I do. think the Revival of that. self-confidence is half the job of a. good leader and economic excellence and. educational Excellence automatically. follow from. there excellent excellent I can't wait. till uh I can't wait till you're in the. thick of it have like what a. 31% it's it's h we're doing well I think. I was 57% in the most recent poll and. that came out at the start of this week. and then uh the guy who was number three.

in that poll great guy um yesterday. dropped out and endorsed me so we're. winning is not the ultimate goal winning. is a means to the end of actually. turning this state into the Leading Edge. of innovation around the world what. Javier Malay has done in Argentina in a. short amount of time in the United. States compared to Argentina we have. more of a system of federalism than they. do in Argentina argena is a small. country in the United States as well but.

what he has done in Argentina I think we. have an opportunity at the state level. to demonstrate was possible in the. United States of America so I think you. know bring in a Malay style Outlook of. economic stimulus to a state like Ohio. to the Ohio River Valley to what people. will call I don't like this term but. what people have historically called the. Rust Belt will instead be I think the. new Platinum belt the new the new. Excellence belt Bel of America and I do. think that that works if you're willing.

to actually do the things required to. get there that works in the short run I. mean get to zero tax slash and burn the. regulatory State president Trump talked. about Freedom cities remember this I. think it's a great idea the idea of. creating cities that are Fountain heads. of innovation where you just have. special economic zones in those cities. to spawn innovation in the areas of the. future right future cities that's great. I would love to not only revive that. concept for federal cities Federal.

Freedom cities but to have Ohio be the. state where many of them are are. actually housed and show what's possible. that's great and that revives the. self-confidence you fix an education. system that serves our kids with. merit-based pay school choice civic. education physical education at that. young age I I do think physical fitness. is a virtue that we've lost at least. amongst cultivating in our kids I think. you got a whole Lab for what's again. possible in the United States of America.

and so Donald Trump's doing at the. federal level he's got that covered the. only thing we need left is Leaders with. that kind of spine at the state level to. do the same thing and and I do think. that that's where the puck is going over. the next couple of years speaking of. trump it's only been a couple of weeks. things really seem to be turning around. I think way faster than anybody ever. imagined yeah how do you think it's. going I think it's going well I do think. that he is far more seasoned for this.

second term than the first right I do. think the first term was the most. successful that we've had of any 21st. century president in some sense that's. too low of a bar right who do you you. have you had Bush Biden Obama Trump. wasn't even close but I do think this. second term is in a different category. he's coming in with a level of. preparedness he is he's no deer in the. headlights with the Deep State I think. that the deer in the headlights is the.

other way around right when he's come in. they are completely Paralyzed by a US. president who radical as this idea might. be is actually running the executive. branch of the United States of America. right the way it is historically worked. is that the president and other elected. leaders are these cute little puppets. that come and go you know I mean. obviously nobody thinks Biden was. running the country right M but he was a. cog in a system but the system would.

still do fine once the next Cog came. along Trump's not a cog he's bringing a. jackhammer to that system I think that. the administrative state is stunned and. I think that is what's going to be. required to save the country he's also. just moving fast on the things he said. he was going to do I think that one of. the things that people are really used. to is wait he said he was going to do. all these things sealing the Border. using all resources including from the. defense department required to be able. to to do it ending the ability for men. to compete in women's sports like that.

was pretty early that came out in recent. days he's actually doing the things that. he said he was going to do but he's. doing them too fast is that like the. only objection and best objection that. people. have not sleeping well can negatively. impact your quality of life and it's. really no secret that getting a good. night's sleep makes a huge difference. ever since Helix sent me a mattress to. try I've been getting the best sleep of. my life I used to sleep too hot on my. old mattress but with helix's.

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think generally if somebody was elected. with a mandate and told you they were. going to do certain things and then he. goes in there and does them and he does. them quickly I don't think that the fact. doing them quickly is a bad thing I. think it's a good thing and you know the. fact that I think the best allegation. they're coming up with is that the pace. is just too crazy well when you had open. borders and the largest influx of. illegals in American history and a. flailing economy and inflation we. haven't seen in 50 years and foreign. conflicts that didn't exist When Donald. Trump left office that do now exist that. need to be extinguished yeah I do think.

that fast and furious is exactly what we. need and I am so. far as impressed as I possibly could be. and I'm also somebody who you know as. you know in my experience of running for. president course of our own. conversations even predating that I'm. not going to just read from the chapter. and verse of Republican talking points. but I think we're just speaking a hard. truth right now he's come out with a. bang and I want to see that continue for. the next four years do you are do you.

have any fear that it's just going to. get. unraveled of course I mean that's is he. doing it in a way that it can't be. unraveled well I mean I think again. let's just say that that's step one. right step one is you got to do it I. mean that the idea of the fear of it. being unraveled being a basis for saying. therefore we're going to take some other. slower approach is is a wrong. alternative but the idea of just saying. we did it and there we're going to be. complacent that's not that's not an. answer either so the way I look at it is.

you do everything you possibly can. legally through executive action go far. reset the cultural. Baseline in government and the cultural. Baseline to some sense in the country to. expect more of our government in the. consequence after that you shut the door. and really shut the door through. legislation that legislation takes a. long time some of it will happen some of. it won't happen just the nature of how. Congress works but I don't think that. that concern should stop you from doing. something through executive action that.

you otherwise could have done give just. an example from the week right if you. have the opportunity to pass a new law. that says that men can't compete in. women's sports and receive federal. funding at the same. time you could say that that is arguably. more solid without a legal challenge in. courts than an executive action but that. would take forever to do and you don't. need to actually wait for that law to be. passed because the existing laws already. say that federal funds should not allow. for local institutions who are receiving. those federal funds to discriminate in.

that way now let's go to the next. level many of these local institutions. should not be receiving those federal. funds because that money is just making. a wrong round trip from those localities. to the federal government there's a. bureaucratic rake and then less of it. comes back to the people that doesn't. make any sense so the right answer the. next step will be shut down the. Department of Education and return that. money to the states and so the way I see. President Trump moving is fiercely. rational just go quickly using the leers. levers of executive power to do what. needs to be done quickly within the.

bounds of law next is then dismantle the. bureaucracy that sort of messed up those. AC those actions in the first place. actually just you can't reform that. bureaucracy but tear down the parts of. the bureaucracy that just need to be. torn down and never rebuilt then the. next step is when in doubt about the. rest kick it to the states except for. the essentials of what we actually need. to preserve in the federal government. and I think that that's going to be that. you know three three step sequence is. going to look like the first 18 months. which brings us back to earlier.

discussion which is then it goes to the. the center of gravity for what's left. you know shifts and kicks to the states. and if we get each of those each of the. steps of that Cascade done that's what. the stuff of saving a country in a. lasting way actually looks like and so. do we have to be vigilant to make sure. this doesn't just all get sort of. reversed either through the Myriad legal. challenges that are coming or you know. by a future president that through a. stroke of a pen can reverse everything. to the prior status quo yeah we got to. be vigilant for that but I don't think.

that should stop us should not stop. president Trump from moving swiftly in a. fast and furious kind of way and I say. that in the best of ways did you see was. it yesterday maybe it was the day before. first foreign dignitary to be in the. White House Netanyahu yes I think. there's more coming as well I'm sure. there are I'm sure there's a lot more. coming but I mean what did you what did. you make of when he said he really threw. him there he said we would basically.

control Gaza and occupy it it caught. caught some folks by surprise there I. would say that first of all just on the. paws of foreign dignitaries coming in. the way that they are I think that he's. commanding respect again I mean I don't. I do not think the rest of these world. leaders had an iota of respect for Biden. as the president they had a respect for. the office of the president but I don't. think they fundamentally respected the. man who occupied it largely because. people have been in rooms with him even. Business Leaders who have gone to the.

White House in late Biden's tenure have. told me the same thing he's just not. there right you and I are having a. conversation as two thinking human. beings examining one another's thoughts. that wasn't something that happened for. people who met with Biden in the white. house and I don't mean to rag on the guy. in some ways feel bad for any person of. older age who's passed their peak of. mental acuity and is suffering from it. but that was the State of Affairs now. you got guy who is with it who brings. the energy who has the spine and the.

resolve and the force of muscle to be. able to actually engage with independent. ideas and negotia in the backdrop of. those ideas so you know Donald Trump is. a master conversation starter he is a. master negotiator and he's a master. using a start of a conversation to enter. a negotiation look at what happened even. in the discussions in recent days with. Mexico Canada and China well he brought. and Canada to the table and now the real. Focus shifts to what the heck we're.

going to do in our relationship with. China which is in a different category. from Mexico and Canada China's in a. different category because we can't. depend on China for our modern way of. life you got most of the def most of the. semiconductors in the US Department of. Defense being supplied by China our. defense industrial base depends on China. our pharmaceutical supply chain depends. on China so it's not just a trade. question it's a question of actual. National Security actually in a true. sense you can't depend on an adversary. for things that are essential to your.

existence but look at the masterful way. he backed into that right he started. with want to talk about Canada talk. about Mexico get him to the table. conversation starters that were you call. them aggressive openers of. conversation but he's a guy who is able. to start a conversation that otherwise. would not be had I love that he met in. person with Gavin newom great you can. trade barbs with the guy but push comes. to shove on issues that relate to. America if Gavin's going to be talking. to him in good faith about it Donald. Trump will have that conversation then. BB comes here he has a conversation and.

he akin to a lot of his other. conversation openers had a started a. conversation by lighting a fire that. otherwise Sparks a conversation okay. what what does the future actually look. like like let's talk about amongst. serious ideas of how we're going to make. sure the United States's interests are. protected in ways that don't Pro drag us. into protracted conflicts in the Middle. East I me Donald Trump was the OG in the. Republican party for that he was an. opponent to the Iraq War before that was.

a cool thing to say for a republican. politician I think he's a guy who knows. what he's doing I think he's a. pragmatist who understands America's. interests deeply and I think that you. got to let him work it in his method in. order to get there even if every one of. the you know initial conversation. starters isn't necessarily the literal. way that he's actually going to. ultimately do it do you think we should. control Gaza well look I think that. let's just take a broader question about. us Middle East.

policy I don't think our track record I. think I'm going to say is is super. controversial here I think it's kind of. obvious I don't think our track record. of being a nation building operator in. the Middle East has been very good or we. wouldn't be where we are in Iraq and. Afghanistan right now MH I mean for. God's sake the Taliban is still in. charge $80 billion and two decades later.

it wasn't a nation building project that. worked I don't think that Iraq was. compared to the amount of money and even. more importantly than money the lives. that were sacrificed I don't think. achieved our objectives there and by the. way I fully being in the room with with. one of them fully respect the patriots. who served our country when our country. called for their service and I think. there were valuable objectives to have. been achieved in a narrow away certainly. in Afghanistan and you could talk about. other missions elsewhere but I think by. and large our track record of engaging.

in you know straightup nation building. has historically in the Middle East not. been all that successful what I'm going. to say here is I'm going to give. president Trump the space to know that. he's a man who has a strategy when he. says something in the long run he has an. idea of where he's going and he is. somebody who has proven time and again. that he's able to use the Contours of. conversation in negotiation to achieve. what others would have previously deemed.

impossible I think what he did even in. the Middle East last time around with. the Abraham Accords was. Unthinkable it was Unthinkable at the. time he took office and you're not just. going to get there by some linear path. with you know bushy tail showing up and. saying okay well here's what I want to. do and I'm going to tell you exactly. what that is and somehow ever's going to. magically agree with me no it doesn't. work that way you got to have some level. of coones to say the things that others. aren't willing to say to bring people to. the table in complex ways and so I'm.

going to let him do his job as the. commanderin-chief to lead us effectively. he's demonstrated time and again that he. knows what he's doing obviously he knows. as well as anybody what our historical. track record in you know occupation and. nation building in the Middle East has. been in the past because he was the guy. who called that to the Forefront of the. Republican party and I think he knows. what he's doing when it comes to mapping. out how we're going to secure America in. the future which is his top objective.

let's talk about Doge sure Department of. government efficiency so love it you're. a big part of that and then what. happened yeah I mean look I've been. talking about this for years I mean. tackling the administrative state has. been my longtime passion and Elon and I. actually met first when I ran for. president at a dinner where this is. exactly the topic we spent hours into 1: a.m. talking about was the basis of our. friendship at ever since first objective. is get Donald Trump elected after he got. elected you the question is how are we.

going to have how for me personally how. am I going to have my impact on the. country that was the issue that I had. been so focused on wrote a book even. recently laying out the road map of one. way I thought a lot of this could get. done taking a legal and constitutional. law first approach and legislation to be. able to cut budgets in a lasting way to. be able to do it in a way that Ed the. law and the lawmaking process and recent. Supreme Court idence and so that was a. vision I've been articulating for for a. long time you know even even spoke about.

that shortly after Doge was announced in. the oped in the Wall Street Journal that. Elon and I co-published there you know. lay that out now something like Doge has. never happened before and it's like a. new startup it takes different. directions and I think that as the plan. evolved to take more of a technology. Centric approach right Doge was supposed. to be an outside body to the government. that was taking a look at a lot of these. other constitutional and legal. Dimensions I think it became clear that. to drive rapid change and some of the.

ways that we could score quick wins Doge. came to reside in the government taking. a technology first approach taking over. what was formerly known as the US. Digital Services at that point Elon and. president Trump and I we all you know. came to the same conclusion that for me. to drive the vision I had in mind the. best way to do that the best perch from. which to do it is elected office and so. we all landed at the same place place. and I think it was what this past Monday. that Elon and I did our first Doge.

cast Twitter spaces X spaces I think we. started at midnight it went to 1:30 a.m. laying out a lot of what this Vision was. and if you look at how much he's been. able to do in just the first two weeks. it's massive and when you think about a. technology-driven approach nobody better. to do it than Elon and I think he is. doing it not in a small way but in a big. way and I'm going to be as helpful on my. front of leading at the state level as. is going to be required to pick up the. pieces from you know tearing up the.

Federal bureaucracy how many people are. involved with thatan you know I think. that it's not success ought not be. measured in terms of numbers of people. in some ways you want to fewer people. doing doing a lot so I'm going to stick. to what's you know I mean I'm not on the. inside I want to be respectful of of it. so you know but you're not talking about. five people but you're not talking about. an army of thousands of people that are. randomly just looking for to do either. that's the rest of the federal. bureaucracy but a lean mean team I think. has accomplished a lot in a short amount.

of time I mean if any surprises for you. yet I mean a lot of there's a lot of. chatter about usaid right now and all. the funding of different things looks. like they're involved in the Romania. stuff that we kind of insane I mean even. domestic political press it's it's. insane you know and so that caught a lot. of people's ey were doing an interview. here in a couple days about it but but I. was surprised at the usaid stuff I mean. that really but I think it's great that. that Elon and the team are focused there.

I give really good credit here on to. president Trump for usid I mean he. understands that even in some of the. conversations I had with President Trump. even at the at the Army Navy game where. you and I were I mean he mentioned that. to me then he mentioned it several times. over that this was one of the areas. where he knows there's massive amount of. waste of us tax paay dollars and also. kind of a cultural issue people have. been worked in the state department or. good people even who worked in around. the usaid will tell you it almost. developed a culture of just believing.

that it wasn't accountable to anybody. not even the department with in which. it's sat let alone the American people. and at a certain point you cannot. incrementally reform that type of Beast. if you want tame that Beast you got to. look at it wholesale and so look I love. the the expansive Vision with which you. know Elon is is moving quickly but it. starts with a president who is really. has the spine to do what usually you. might have a president that talks on the. campaign Trail and when it comes to you.

know making the leap when they're in. office gets a little gunshot when they. look off the cliff now you got a guy. who's been in there before he's had four. years to think about it it's a rare. situation in American history he looks. at this as how do I actually from a. legacy of the United States of America. make the changes that need to be made. and you take a look at an organization. like usaid which is supposedly. historically a sacred cow that couldn't. be touched lift the hood and see just. the level of I guess I could call it. lowercase SE corruption in the way a lot.

of those dollars are spent yeah I think. the American people are on the side of. saying give me back that money instead. of using it to achieve influence. operations domestically or abroad so how. does it work how how does it work I mean. we've seen all these just in the two. weeks we've seen all these things. identified where you know it's just cash. just going out the door for various. reasons and so is it when they unveil it. and they unveil. hey usaid you know funded whatever.

insert any of the last 10 things that. they unveiled does that when the funding. stops is it is it an exposure game Doge. Doge ex exposes it to the US government. the US government so start with my. opinion right I'll sh with you my. opinion and I think that again we're. going to give president Trump the. latitude he needs to lead in the way. that he knows the country needs to go.

without you know from the peanut. gallery microman micro guessing what. each of these what what these decisions. are he knows what he's doing but at a. high level give you the general. principle the US president runs the. executive branch of government just. because something has budgeted does not. mean that he has an obligation to spend. it on a wasteful fraudulent or abusive. application of that budget. so this gets into um I mean I don't know. uh if this if this is too technical or.

whatnot but the impoundment Control Act. okay that's a Act passed in the 70s that. said the US president has to spend. certain money if it's. been appropriated by Congress otherwise. it's called impoundment where he's not. spending the money and so the. impoundment Control Act stops him from. doing that if you read the statute. carefully like read the actual existing. law carefully it's pretty clear that. waste fraud or abuse is not in that. category like the idea that just because. you've allocated the budget doesn't mean.

that that agency has to spend that money. if it's going to a wasteful or. fraudulent or an abusive expenditure no. that's already a car out so that already. is a great place to start waste fraud. abuse the president has the authority to. do it and the president has the. authority to delegate the exercise of. that Authority which is what he's done. here through the creation of do and I. think it's a brilliant move within the. bounds of Law and that's not even. touching the separate view that I think. lot of thoughtful legal Minds have that. the impoundment control act itself might. be unconstitutional without even going.

there right which I think there are. strong Arguments for that waste fraud. abuse is something that no president has. already authorized to to spend now let's. go to a separate point a lot of people. don't know this is that a good portion. of the money that's spent every year I. think it's to the tune of about $500. billion was never actually authorized by. Congress in the first place which is. actually insane so if Congress never. authorized it the idea that you have to. continue to spend it is also insane so I. think those two things waste fraud abuse.

far more massive far more pervasive than. most Americans Envision but I'm I'm glad. the flashlights brought to where the sun. don't shine in the bureaucracy and. that's how you actually get. accountability and change but combine. that with executive action to say that. we don't have to spend that money if. it's there's an argument for Waste fraud. or abuse by the way the statute saying. all this stuff might be itself be. unconstitutional anyway but more. importantly that you have US president. that's actually running the show and. calling those shots the elected leader. by the people of this country rather.

than some unelected bureaucrat man. managing his fom without accountability. that's not a. democracy right I mean the basic premise. of a democracy and you know you always. have the people you know who are. technical about this we're. constitutional republic yes okay I love. that but I'm just talking in a. colloquial sense lowercase D democracy. the basic premise of a democracy. is that when somebody in a government. makes a decision that binds you okay.

that stops you from doing something or. when somebody in a government makes a. decision that spends your money that. they effectively with the force of. government extracted from you that if. they don't do a good job or you disagree. with that you get to vote them out of. that position that's just table Stakes. for democracy when somebody makes laws. that bind you or spends your money by. taxing you you get to vote them. out if that doesn't exist then we don't. live in a democracy we live it's.

something else altogether so the United. States was founded on this idea that the. people we elect to run the government. should be the ones actually running the. government that's not the case today. that is bluntly not the case today the. people who make most of the laws they. call them rules but they function with. the effect of law people can have their. lives ruined over them the people who. make those rules were never elected to. their position in the first place. they're unelected bureaucrats and so the. idea that those decisions made by those. bureaucrats are somehow Untouchable I.

think is something that says we don't. actually live in a democracy we live in. some sort of technocratic. bureaucratic monarchy and and I think we. fought an American Revolution to reject. that and I do think we live in a 1776. kind of moment right now where we're. rejecting that monarchy all over again I. guess what I'm asking is the thank you. for explaining all that but is the what. I'm asking is how how does it work does.

Doge Shine the Light on the wasteful. spending get that. information to the president to the. president and then the president makes. the decision whether to stop it or not. to stop it eminently sensible that's. exactly the I mean you see the way. things have worked even the last two. weeks yeah Spotlight president Trump. makes the decisions president Trump. makes the decisions with executive. Authority going as far as he can waste. fraud abuse that's the categories and. then any spending cuts beyond that have.

to come from Congress okay and then what. is the what is the strategy are they are. they I mean you can't go least I don't. think you. can you can't oversee all of. the wasteful spending all at once are. they starting in categories are they. going to go through you know USA ID FBI. CIA is that how it's uh I'll let. president Trump you know lead the way I. think some of this has being done. through a positive kind of shock and awe.

right I mean I think that that's I think. it's a positive term I mean that in in. the best of ways but you coming in some. ways you have to how let the actions. speak louder than the words and so what. I can say is in the several months that. I spent you know helping lay the. groundwork for this thinking about. there's a lot of different dimensions. there's the technology elements there's. the pending elements there's a legal. constitutional regulatory elements each. had our areas of focus for my areas of.

focus as we said I think elected office. is the right best next way to realize it. but for a lot of these other you know. turning off agencies deleting their. actions I think a lot of that is uh well. thought out but I think it's best done. through actions rather than words and so. I I predict that there will be continued. additional successes bold moves moves. that will will not always be um. applauded by the Legacy press that.

covers Washington DC but I think will be. applauded by the majority of people in. this country yeah I think that too I how. long do you anticipate the initial. sweep how how long do you anticipate the. initial sweep to go for I mean let's. just take that the category of what what. do you think of the initial phase of the. presidency is undoing damage of the last. administration because there's there's a. category of just what did Biden do that. needs to be undone and I always say. Biden it's not really Biden but the. machine that manages Biden what did the.

Biden Administration do that needs to be. undone I mean that's the first 3 to six. months of work of this presidency right. I mean this is the the the. electorate gave president Trump a. mandate and it was a mandate to reverse. the damage of the last four years I'm. not saying that's going to be easy but. that in some ways is the easiest part. right so I think there's two phases to. this National Revival the first phase is. undo the damage of the last four years.

that is the phase of running from. something as fast as we. can I think there'll be the second phase. of this that then becomes harder which. is we're not just running from something. but we're running to something right. what does the alternative vision of what. the country actually looks like you know. what comes after a lot of the successful. executive orders in you I think the. first couple of weeks there was a lot. but one of the one of the areas that was. particularly notable was effectively the. ending of Dei and affirmative action and.

race-based quota systems in the. government which is having a trickle. down effect of the private sector. because then it applies to government. contractors who are no longer bound by. the same thing that's not some small. segment of the economy 20% of the US. Workforce works for a company that's. covered by those Government Contracting. regulations now free of these you know. Dei regime stuff so a lot of this is. like for example undoing what happened. under Biden and and just Fast and. Furious undo that as quickly as possible. a lot of what Biden did was regulation. by Fiat spending through the executive.

branch you know even you're asking about. Doge one of the areas to look at is even. all the money that Biden pushed out at. the 11th hour after the election jeez. it's an insane amount of money that was. pushed out because they knew Donald. Trump's coming in on January 20th they. pushed that money out to rivan I mean. you got a bunch of other people who just. received billions of dollars that they. shouldn't have otherwise received so so. phase one of the. we're talking at I would have said six. months at the pace president Trump's. movement maybe it'll be three months.

okay you're looking at just Fast and. Furious of reversing the damage damage. control from Biden is done we have set. the nation back to resetting it to year. three of the Trump presidency 2019 I. think of that as actually a really. worthy goal just baselining the country. back to 2019 on so many metrics right as. the final year of the Trump presidency. pre pandemic think about the number of. border crossings hit an all-time low in. 2019 think about even our federal budget. by the.

way people don't stop to ask this. sometimes and even if you go to. Washington DC they use a lot of. willy-nilly wonky language of. non-discretionary budget this or that. just a basic question like just forget. the. verbiage how much money like how much. taxpayer cash did the government spend. last year answer about $7 trillion just. to hear. less next question how much money just. like cash forget non-discretionary and.

discretionary this and mandatory. spending this no just forget just like. overall dollars how much money did the. federal government spend in the year. 2019 the answer was less than four and a. half. trillion so to those who say right to. the project of cutting $2 trillion in. federal expenditures oh it's just not. possible 2019 was not some ancient. period of History like it wasn't that. long ago we all remember it it was the. third year of Trump's term the final. year of his first presidency before the. pandemic if we just view the first three.

months the first six months of this but. I think president Trump's going even. faster of baselining the country back to. 2019 for border crossings for how we. felt for what people felt like. affordability was what inflation was in. the country think about even at least as. a mental model of what federal spending. looked like without all the level of. waste that Biden introduced that wasn't. that long ago so I think that phase one. of this is just undo the damage of the. last four years I'm not saying that's. easy of course it's not Trump's a man. for the job he's going to do.

it but then the question is okay what. does the second phase look like when we. actually are post Dei let's just start I. mean just use as an. example what does the Post Dei America. look like and that's just one of like 50. changes that President Trump is making. but just as an. example I think that causes us to have. to level up to answer that question. right we gota we got to man up to say. that for the last four years we've had.

it's almost an easy talking point right. we're against Dei yeah I mean I was the. Crusader against this before it was cool. but now we're post Dei now we got. nothing left to. blame right so 70% of our kids aren't. doing well in math but we've actually. eliminated the subsidization of De in. our schools okay now what are we going. to do actually solve the remaining. problem that's actually left what is. equal opport. actually look like we're against the. equal results BS but what is actual. restoration of equal opportunity for all.

actually look like okay we've cut a lot. of the executive order based spending of. waste fraud abuse and all that but if. we're serious about really permanently. ending the precipice that we're all. otherwise on our way of on our way to. with the national debt what does that. mean for work requirements attached to. welfare or other form forms of federal. payments right that's those are. different conversations so I think that. there's two phases to this I think. there's phase one shock and awe moving.

so quickly that they won't even know. what hit him you can see it from the. other side's response like they have no. idea what hit him is just restoring the. company back country back to 2019. greatness okay in in in a in a manner of. I use the word company Donald Trump is a. CEO of the executive branch he's running. it running the executive branch with the. principles that a great CEO of a company. would and I don't think that's a bad. thing but we're so much more than a. company as a country we are a nation and.

so having done that what does rebuilding. this nation look like for that we have. to say not what what are we running from. but what are we actually running to as a. nation what were those Civic ideals that. we want to revive in the country and I. think that's a longer term project I. think it's a longer term project not. just at the presidential or federal. level but to our earlier. conversation I I think it will be. Governors and even local leaders that. have to lead the way on that project and.

I think that that's where the the next. chapter of work actually begins do you. think that so you think that Doge will. actually expand into. States it has to it has to I think it's. a necessity interesting I think it's I. think it has to and must expand to each. of the 50 states and that doesn't mean. the methods in each of the 50 states are. the same as the methods of the federal. government because it's a different. problem to solve but I do think that. each of the 50 states taking a long hard. look at waste fraud abuse of how those.

State dollars are spent in some ways the. capture of state governments is even. worse than the capture of the federal. government I didn't think about cronyism. in in the state government. Administration some cases even worse. than you'd imagine at the federal level. and so I do think that bringing the. essence of restoring three branches of. government rather than four the of. reducing waste fraud abuse the mission. of cutting red tape and overregulation. that project is not done when it's done.

at the federal level that's just the. beginning that's the end of the. beginning and I think you when I get to. the beginning of the end that's when you. actually start doing it at the state. level if you just pull most people in. this country you could just ask most. people you know do you think there is. too much red tape in America or too. little red tape in America I think you. will find a lot of people who would tell. you there's too much red tape small. business owner or a hairdresser who has. to get a license to be able to practice. her profession the ability to be able to. start a new business in nuclear energy.

production in the United States hasn't. happened in 30 years is there too much. red tape or too little red tape I think. you'll have a lot of people will tell. you that there's too much red tape in. America try bringing a new medicine to. market the 10 years and billion plus. dollars that that takes it was the. industry that I was in and I've overseen. the development of five medicines that. went on to become FDA approved I can. tell you from experience every one of. those could and should have been. developed at a fraction of the cost if. the regulatory regime worked the way it. actually. should I don't think you'll find anybody.

who would tell you that there's H I. think there's too little red tape in. America I think we need more red tape in. America I think we actually need a. little bit more regulatory obstacles. before we're able to do certain things I. don't think you're going to find many. people in that category what do you. think about this deep seek stuff I mean. they China basically they did that for. what six was it $6 million we'll see. what the actual facts are so so I'm not. sure if I believe the exact numbers but. broadly speaking. did they create what appears to be a. competitive in some ways potentially.

even Superior level of AI to that which. it took tens of billions of dollars. maybe even hundreds of billions of. dollars of investment from us companies. with computing power that was a fraction. of what the US companies had access to. it appears to be that way yes not some. of the details maybe that access to a. little more computing power maybe. there's a little bit more money spent. but don't let that deflect from the main. point this goes to the earlier question. about us education and preparedness for.

the Next Generation it's an example of. it I'm not saying that deep seek colone. is the is the wakeup call we should have. the wakeup call we could have the wakeup. call every day just from the fact that. 70% of our eighth graders aren't. proficient in math but they're deeply. related so just on the facts of what. happened right because people hear this. and we're like in a modern social media. culture where people read something for. two seconds on their social media feed. and then that's what they remember of it. like let's just sort of ground ourselves. in what happened there were export. controls of chips from the US to China.

and you have apparently if the facts are. to be believed they had access to. something like 10 to 10,000 to 50,000 or. so and maybe it was a little more than. that based on new new reporting but call. it 50,000 plus. a100 GPU computing power chips from. Nvidia where us companies like meta I. think it's like something like had. 350,000 plus. h100 GPU computing power chips from.

Nvidia so it's like 60 plus 63x plus. computing power for us companies might. have access to versus this relatively. modestly funded startup in China and. what they did was with that Capital. constraint and with that computing power. constraint even if you're skeptical of. the exact. numbers they were able to use that to in. a scrappy way get to a similar place by. doing some clever things right examples. of what it seems like they did instead.

of using 32 decimal places afterwards. for a number for numerically training AI. they used eight decimal places instead. well they they're not maybe not quite as. precise as using 32 but for any. near-term human use maybe they felt like. eight decimal places after was good. enough or they use different areas of. specialization where they didn't require. everyone to be an expert in everything. at the same time but used these. so-called you know centers of excellence. or there's different ways you could. phrase what that is where you'd have the. relevant experts train on their relevant.

area of subject matter expertise but if. you had something in you know in the. field of building a bridge you don't. need the Advent of the best medical. expert necessarily stepping up to answer. that question because that's otherwise a. waste in computing power so you had. different Scrappy things that they did. along the way training it on phrases at. a time rather than just individual. letters or words to be able to use. Capital constraint and resource. constraint to still get to the same.

place I that that's. a I think about that kind of scrappiness. as an American Quality actually we're. the we're the pioneers and the explorers. and the Scrappy and the unafraid and yet. what we see is that this is a wakeup. call for us and you know I saw this the. telegram founder pav durov was had an. interesting comment about this which I. think was I don't agree with everything. he he wrote in there but. he had an interesting comment. tying this success this apparent success. for this Chinese startup to even deeper.

differences in the Chinese educational. system versus the current US educational. system and I think that if we don't use. that at a wakeup call for us to at least. light a fire under the feet of our stem. education in this country then we would. be making a a grave. mistake. well now you got a dinner you got to get. to is is there anything else you want to. discuss no it's gone right by man I um. you know I think. um I think overcoming.

this victimhood culture in the United. States is something. that I think I'm pretty keen on right. now I think that that's for everything. we've talked about from education to AI. to economic leadership to success right. even in overcoming the federal. bureaucracy and downsizing the federal. government it's easy to point the finger. at the government and we I do it because. I think we should expect more of our. bureaucrats and our. politicians and expect a lesser size of. our bureaucracy but part of the reason.

that exists is that you have a culture. that demands it right you have an. electorate that demands greater. dependence on the government now rather. than independence from it and then a. victimhood narrative to justify that. dependence and it's mostly come from the. left. right but I'm going to talk about it in. terms that aren't partisan at this point. we won right so what's the point of just. repeatedly pointing the other this is. mostly a leftwing. problem I'm also worried that it's 10%. likely to be a problem on the right as.

well but I don't care whether it's. left-wing victimhood or victimhood. culture that goes beyond the. left we are not victims we're not a. nation of victims I wrote a book a. couple years ago called nation of. victims we should not at our best be a. nation of victims we are a nation of. Victors and I do think that you one of. things president Trump's doing an. outstanding job of is rest restoring. respect for us on the global stage I. love the conversations he's opened up. from Greenland to the Panama Canal great.

conversations for us to have but to Puff. our chests abroad we got to all pull up. our pants at home I believe that you. know that's an expression that has. historically been used to preach to. certain wings of the American left or. whatever I think I'm talking to all of. us here we all got to pull up our pants. at home enough whining start winning the. pursuit of excellent is what I want to. see in America and especially since. we've now defeated the left at The. Ballot Box I'm Keen to make sure that we.

restore that pursuit of excellence in. America and wherever it comes from. victimhood culture I think we got to get. over it and see ourselves as actually. Victorious we're the unafraid we're the. people who nobody could be could stop. we're a country built on the idea of. Merit and meritocracy that's America. that's what Donald Trump is standing for. right. now and we can't forget that and I hope. that. um I hope that somebody doesn't have to. pick up this you know.

exchange three or four years from now. and say oh gee you know I wish we had. heated that earlier I hope that's not. where we're headed and the leftwing. victimhood narratives have ruined this. country I don't want to see. those. reemerge from where do the victim upub. stem from from government handouts you. know I think it's stemmed in part from. the Great Society in the 1960s which was. built on the idea of a victimhood. narrative and the thing about victimhood. narratives that make them alluring is.

that there's always some truth at the. kernel of it to justify it right and in. the case of the Great. Society it's patently true that black. Americans did not have not only the same. opportunities that white Americans did. Black Americans were a century before. then slaves in the United States of. America right so there there's there's a. there's a justification for it but at a. certain point time it actually becomes. counterproductive to drive with your. eyes on the rearview mirror as I said. earlier and to wallow in that victimhood.

versus saying how are we going to. actually lift everybody up so what the. Great Society did the so-called Great. Society under Lyn and Johnson it's. biggest misnomer of policy agenda in. American history was it created a new. culture of dependence on the government. that was justified by this victimhood. narrative but it didn't just start with. It Started Black America but eventually. pervaded basically all swaths of America. to expand the permanent existence of the. state that created a new culture of an. expectation of what the citizens. relationship with the state really was.

when you go back to this Lyon Johnson. who pushed this his predecessor of. course was JFK who famously said you ask. not what your country can do for you but. what you can do for your country. beautiful sentiment I think what the. Great Society created was the need for a. new kind of Declaration of Independence. in the. country for us to be able to say ask not. what your country can do for you but. what you can do for yourself and for. your family that in many cases would be. the best way an America could serve.

their country is by not having to be. dependent on that government especially. relevant today when you've got a $36. trillion national debt and growing where. the interest payments on that national. debt are about to be the largest line. item in our federal. budget I do think that the independence. from the government is an important part. of that victimhood culture part of it. has just became popular I mean I do. think that victimhood became a current. right became more popular for a young. person or whatever to claim to be a. victim in the totem pole of victimhood.

you get more stuff right apply I had a. friend who was a interviewer for. Harvard's application essays and she's. just comes back and says oh my God all I. hear is the first thing they introduce. themselves is what type of adversity or. struggle they have faced in some sort of. discrimination or some type of family. soab story not to say that that some of. them aren't real but that's what became. rewarded more so than the actual. achievement itself apparently even in. Harvard admissions interviews so if you. reward victimhood you get more of it and. the more you describe yourself as a.

victim the more likely you are to see. yourself as one so it became a. self-reinforcing culture where that was. what was rewarded instead of excellence. and I think the way we turn this around. is just as a country yes from the. government but also just as a. culture we revive a culture that once. again rewards Excellence over victimhood. in all domains academics math reading. science sports physical Excellence. excellence in music the Arts all of it. that's America that's who we are at our.

best and I do think our participation. trophy culture over our championship. trophy culture that has emerged in the. last you know 20 years or so I think I. think we need to shift back to that. culture of. excellence and uh wherever it comes from. left to right that's what I want to. that's competition competition to. meritocracy let's revive that excellent. excellent Bo I appreciate you coming and. uh know we'll see you again continue my.

man all right be back thank. [Music]. you no matter where you're watching Shan. Ryan Show from if you get anything out. of this please like comment subscribe. and most importantly share this. everywhere you possibly can and if. you're feeling extra generous please. leave us review on Apple and Spotify.

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