Trevor Millar - Psychedelic Provider | SRS #030

hey everybody the last couple of weeks. we hit number 79. on the overall itunes podcast charts. that's out of millions of podcasts we. had. 79 so i want to say thank you to that. my next guest. it's about psychedelics everybody. this is the guy that was with me. by my side during my journey. and will continue to be the provider. that i go to.

when i want a psychedelic treatment. there's no better guy in the world. please welcome trevor miller to the show. it's an awesome episode you guys are. really gonna like it and if you don't. mind. give the video a like leave a comment. subscribe to the channel. enjoy the show everybody love you all. head over to itunes leave us a review. one last thing everybody there's a big.

movement in dc right now. trying to get psychedelics more. available to the thousands and thousands. of people that it's helping. if you're for that. i've linked how to get in contact with. your congressman with your senators. below. shoot them an email. tell them how many thousands of people. this is helping and give them a little. push. sometimes. politicians just need a little push all. right love you guys appreciate all the. support you're gonna love this episode. cheers.

it took me to my most vulnerable. point in my entire life. for context of where the substance comes. from it comes from the the back of a. sonoran desert toad. these are the two. toxic glands right here behind the eyes. the sonoran desert toad native to. arizona and it holds a reputation this. toad is the second most toxic toad in. the world that was so powerful i can't.

imagine. people not having a. breakthrough this substance does bring. you to almost like a heavenly state the. price to pay is in order to get there. you have to die like a part of you needs. to go away for you to experience that. thing that might always be there but. there's a barrier between them. you have to trust that it's going to be. okay. [Music].

you know i think 5meo is really. really like the red pill from the matrix. [Music]. the first thing. after all the anxiety and all of that. got sucked out of me the first thing. that i. heard. was. i swear it was the earth's vibration. i journaled the entire thing and i'm. putting it in an envelope and when. my son.

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go to bubbsnaturals.com use promo code. sean. to take 20 off your order. thank you bubs naturals for being a. sponsor of the sean ryan show. trevor miller. dude i'm so stoked to have you on the. show man. welcome to tennessee thank you it's so. wonderful to be here such a great setup. you've got here and.

thanks for the incredible hospitality so. far oh my pleasure fun to be here. but um just a little background on you. so you're a psychedelic healer ibogaine. and 5meo dmt provider correct. as of today. as of today. and. you've been doing this for a pretty long. time now and you've healed how many. people have you healed do you think well. i've worked with uh. probably about 300. 350 people total yeah and.

um. you know. healing is a questionable term you know. there's a there's probably a continuum. of healing so i've given medicine to. about 350 people and whether or not they. feel as though they're healed that's. kind of up to them. well i feel healed and uh i went to your. to your spot and it changed it literally. changed my life. overnight. my wife noticed it even my.

six-month-old son noticed it and uh and. i actually did a two and a half hour. episode on it. um just a couple weeks ago talking about. the entire experience and. just. giving me. more than just a breath of fresh air. it's changed my life in so many ways wow. so thank you thank you you did all the. work though but i uh i'm glad i was able. to hold a space where you were able to. do that work but you did all the heavy.

lifting during that week dude. well thank you. but so how i want to do the interview is. we want to talk about kind of where how. you started with this. and move into some of the science and. some of your own journeys that you've. experienced with the medicine. and um but before we get into all that. which i'm sure there'll be a plenty of. rabbit holes that we go in and out of i. got you a present oh yeah yeah. everybody gets a gift oh cool especially.

you. oh. wicked i was hoping i was gonna get some. swag then good. and uh. i heard something about your famous. gummy bears dude you gotta try them. really it's so funny if you were to ask. me. what my favorite candy is 100 it's gummy. bears really yeah and so i can't wait to. hear what you think about those oh right. on thank you yeah man and i want to send.

i want to send you and your whole staff. like a whole all of them oh perfect so. they will appreciate that as you know. but um but yeah let's get right into it. so one thing that you had mentioned when. when i was down there you know going. through the speed treatment slash. experience. is we were kind of talking about. your goals and and what you were wanting. to get into and you brought up. the tibetan culture which i found. was fascinating what you were saying.

let's start right there. well i'm no expert and since we had that. conversation i've dug a little deeper to. make sure i was at least sort of correct. in what i said because i heard it from. somebody else but what i said to you is. i had heard that the reason why tibet. became so spiritual and became known as. the spiritual epicenter was because. the warrior class. within that culture got turned on to.

seeking enlightenment through buddhism. so it was once. the kind of king who was in charge of. all the soldiers. many centuries ago now. there was one king in particular that. had kind of conquered everything and. once everything was conquered they. turned towards a more peaceful. enlightened. culture. and. and yeah it took a couple centuries from.

the time that he had this vision but. future rulers kept at it and it was. through kind of that. those warriors turning towards. enlightenment turning towards meditation. turning towards buddhism that once that. particular class had been converted then. everybody else got on board. and i've. in in working with veterans recently. that just kind of popped in mind because. i'm seeing it working with you guys it's. like wow these guys have seen everything.

these guys have been through everything. these guys have had. amazing experiences and a lot of those. experiences weigh very heavy. and to be able to. turn. turn you guys inward as it were to do. your own healing and come out the other. end and have a sense of peace and have a. sense of realization and understanding. it's like wow if we could. you know if we can take the warrior. class in our society and turn them.

towards. these more kind of. awakened ways of being then i think we. could change the world that way i think. you're right man i mean. i've had. i can't name how many people off the top. of my head that have sat across me that. have been through this. and. everybody has. damn near the same consensus after they. after they finish the treatment and. and i think the word is spreading like.

wildfire uh through. through that particular community and. maybe even into the civilian population. so. right it's cool man well yeah i can't. take credit for all those guys that you. mentioned there are other great. providers out there. but yeah. i think as far as i know everybody you. mentioned went through the same protocol. that you went through which just seems. to be this. incredible combination especially for. you guys who. suffer.

tremendous trauma in general but then. specific traumatic brain injury like. firing 50 caliber weapons for. for decades or. being a breacher and getting you know in. the blast radius of explosives all the. time. it does. there's some wear and tear on the body. and it seems like this combination of. ibogaine and 5meo dmt. really seemed to. help somehow. yeah. well let's start let's talk about how.

you got into this so. you're from canada. and you started it. in canada correct. and. from. you you go ahead you actually take it. there was a there's a gentleman by the. name of nicholas sand who moved to. canada. from the states he made a lot of acid in. san francisco area. in the 60s and then he was actually on. the run and he moved to canada to escape. the law and while he was in canada they.

produced a lot of lsd like millions of. hits of lsd so it really spread across. canada in the mid 90s and showed up in. my high school and. yeah it didn't even it wasn't even a. decision to try it it seems like it was. just a natural thing i remember doing it. one day all by myself half a hit acid on. a way to a movie. and uh. i had no idea about the therapeutic. potential of these substances at that.

time. but i do remember saying to. my friends at the time as we're in the. middle of one of these experiences. saying this is what the world has or. this is what adults have forgotten that. has made the world so screwed up. so there was some kind of therapeutic. intuition coming through and there was. you know i experimented a bit as a. teenager and then really set it all on. the back burner for many years. and then when i moved to british. columbia from ontario and i started.

living in vancouver there was a shop. there called the urban shaman which sold. some legal and theogenic plants and i. started hanging out there a little bit. at that time and that's when i first. heard of a boga. and de boga is a plant that has been. used ceremonially for centuries in. countries like gabon in africa a. beautiful tradition called the building. tradition has grown out of the use of. this medicine. and in the early 1960s it was discovered.

that iboga and ibogaine a particular. alkaloid in the ebola plant is very good. for treating opiate use disorder or. heroin addiction so in the early 60s. that discovery was made so. i heard about a boga at that time but um. more directly to the story of how i came. to be here and work in this field. post 9 11 i was new to vancouver after 9.

11 i was kind of very distraught with. the state of the world and was looking. at ways that i might be able to. make it a better place and vancouver has. a neighborhood called the downtown east. side which is uh basically a four block. radius of. it's it's known as the poorest postal. code in canada because it is there's. just a high rate of poverty there and a. high rate of a lot of the stuff that. comes along with poverty like drug use. and. i.

was new to vancouver i 9 11 happened i. was looking at ways to give back this. neighborhood looked like. maybe. it could use some help so i just kind of. very naively started looking at ways. that i might be able to help this. neighborhood i knew i had no training. in how to do that but i thought maybe. my fresh perspective might lead to some. discovery nobody else is looking at and. essentially that turned into about a. 10-year networking and research project.

in 2005. i really dug into it i spent about six. months going down there almost every day. i even moved. into uh an apartment at the corner of. hastings in maine which is kind of the. notorious corner there. and uh. yeah it really couldn't couldn't really. find any solutions for a long time but i. kept at it and just had this intent that. you know maybe i'll find something that. can help one day and then. in 2009.

i. was in a meeting with a woman who worked. down there and i. i had been working on cruise ships for a. few years before that so i was just. freshly back in vancouver and wanted to. start up my little pet project again. and through a conversation with a woman. who works down there who's a bit of a. legend. i was looking at ways that i might be. able to help speaking to her about it. and the whole time i was speaking to her. there was a binder on the wall behind.

her that said ibogaine on it and just. near the end of that. conversation i said what about ibogaine. and she said actually i have people. calling me for that all the time. there was a. an ibogaine clinic in vancouver that had. closed down a couple years before but. their website was still up and her name. was on the website is somebody you might. be able to get in touch with to find out. more information so she was getting this. constant stream of phone calls and i. said well let me follow that thread. because i was familiar with the plant.

medicine world and. it was of interest to me so let me see. what i can do with that. so she uh basically started forwarding. all those phone calls to me whenever she. got a call about ibogaine and i i gave. it to a couple of people right out of. the gate and i'm really lucky. that they didn't die because i didn't. know what i was doing ibogaine is a. potentially dangerous. substance and. thankfully nobody was hurt but i saw.

pretty quickly that i didn't know what i. was doing and i stopped that so the. phone kept ringing and i would. essentially tell people to to go to. mexico if you are planning on doing. doing it on your own you probably. shouldn't but if you if you are here's a. few things that i know. um. and then in 2012 this woman who kind of. had this idea with me she called me one. morning and she said did you know that. there's an ibogaine providers conference.

in town. and i didn't and she said well i put. your name on the list as a provider you. should go down there. so it was a global ibogaine therapy. alliance conference and jonathan. dickinson who is a current business. partner he was actually running that. and. we met became kind of fast friends. and. at that conference i met a lot of people. from the iba game community really. incredible people that have been kind of. carrying the torch in this realm when.

you know before it was cool that's for. sure. and uh. they i met my business partner. the guy who became my business partner. at the time he had been to mexico he had. learned how to work with ibogaine there. really wanted to work with it in canada. so we put together a business uh called. it liberty root therapy limited that's. still a corporation that i own in canada. and we worked with ibogaine and i was. able to legally do that in canada from.

2012 when we started through until 2017. ibogaine was listed as a natural health. product in canada so that's. that's a supplement would be a natural. health product or rhodiola or ginkgo. biloba or something like that. so ibogaine. got kind of mis. categorized into a natural health. product which gave this window of. opportunity to work with it legally in. 2017 health canada rescheduled ibogaine. because a natural health product.

shouldn't be potentially dangerous and. ibogaine is potentially dangerous. so. it. was listed as a prescription drug from. that point on so it's on the. prescription drug list but because it. hasn't gone through phase one two and. three clinical trials it's not available. as a prescription in canada so it's kind. of in this no-go zone. so within. within the five years i was legally work. working with it we. started with a. three-bedroom town home that we would.

provide the medicine out of we brought. in one person at a time how did you find. those people. um. for one that woman was still forwarding. phone calls to me. so as soon as we. opened business. for the first three months we just had a. really continuous stream of referrals. and then those referrals dried up and. then i just started putting a bit more. energy into the website and. yeah people found us so. what what was your did you have like a.

specific criteria that you were looking. for to treat people. uh well ibogaine is really good at. helping people overcome opioid use. disorder so addiction to heroin or. fentanyl or that kind of thing so. that it's good at helping people. overcome other addictions as well but it. works better than anything else to get. people off opiates so. and being addicted to opiates is is. an expensive habit so it would cost i.

think when we started probably about 6. 500 to come in for the week but there's. there's an advantage to spending that. money to come off your expensive heroin. habits so when we first started it. really was people that were hooked on. opiates that we treated for the most. part. so that's how ibogaine really became. known in the western world is this this. can get people off heroin so. you know like you went through the. 24-hour long ibogaine experience.

you can give somebody ibogaine and. within. within an hour or so their withdrawals. are gone and then they go through that. incredible journey like you experienced. but then they come out of the at the. other end and you know credit to howard. lotzoff was the gentleman in the early. 60s in new york city his chemist friends. said you might be interested in trying. this ibogaine stuff and he did. and he was. hooked on heroin at the time and he went. through this incredible journey he came.

out the other end he said wow i'm never. going to do that again but then he's. like wait a second i haven't wanted. heroin the whole time i've been on this. nor do i want it now. so that's when it's anti-addictive. properties were discovered and. thankfully he was a real champion. for the medicine and started talking to. people and trying to get people to pay. attention about what ibogaine's. potential was and he was successful at. that. and. yeah that's those are primarily. the people that we treated we did do. some some for depression and different.

psycho-spiritual reasons and helping. people overcome uh. you know alcohol use disorder and. cocaine. addiction. and uh but mostly people for opioid use. disorder and we treated about. 75 people through that first place one. person at a time and then we graduated. to a larger house and we could treat. three people at a time at the larger. house and it was under a. semi-medicalized context we had a doctor. that would work with us to.

prescribe anything that we needed. we had a nurse that would come in during. the actual ibogaine experience itself. and that was good but compared to what. we're doing now it almost. feels underground because as you've seen. what we're doing now is fully. medicalized we have a paramedic on duty. 24 hours a day while you're there we. have a doctor present when we're giving. the ibogaine itself as well as three. other nurses or paramedics so. we're really kind of over the top with.

safety now where i've always wanted to. be but in. just trying to. kind of put things together in a gray. market within canada i wasn't able to. bring it up to the level that i've got. it now and thankfully. we're there now yeah what what was your. success rate starting out well. anecdotally ibogaine has a success rate. in helping people overcome opiate use. disorder that's anywhere from kind of 40. to 60 percent.

um i think with all with proper pre-care. and proper aftercare you can get the. number up quite a bit higher than that. but. 40 to 60 percent like if you look at. that compared to addiction treatment. statistics in other realms like you know. whether it's checking yourself into a. 30-day facility or. going to meetings or whatever it is i. think if you look at a meta-analysis of. how successful aa is or n a is it's it's.

not more than ten percent successful. um. so yeah there's there's a psychedelic. connection to aaa we could talk about. later too perfect yeah yeah i mean. i haven't had a drink. since i've been down there since before. i went down there because i think it was. four days prior yeah no no boozing yeah. which was kind of tough for me. and uh i still haven't it's been almost.

two months to the day that's amazing. yeah if it's okay to share a few details. of your journey from my perspective when. we first started talking. one of the the questions on our. application is do you drink yes. how much. however much and then do you think. you can or are you able to stop drinking. for seven days prior to coming in and i. think your answer was i'm not sure. remember speaking to you about that and. just saying look you're definitely we.

can't have you in any kind of a detox. situation for alcohol with with opiates. we can have somebody use opiates right. until the day we're going to give them. ibogaine but alcohol detoxification. can kill you so we need to make sure. that you're you're detoxed off alcohol. before giving somebody ibogaine. that's not even why i went down there. and uh. i literally have. i just don't have any cravings at all. none for. coffee for sugar for.

booze for i mean it's really. that was unexpected. it was it was yeah that really speaks to. the power of the substance like without. any uh. in working with. medicines like this the word intent. comes up a lot like what's your intent. going into this and a lot of people come. in with the intent that obviously they. want to stop heroin or whatever but to.

to see and i went through the same thing. i stopped drinking for four years after. in a boga journey and i too had zero. intent to stop drinking but to to know. that you can go into this even with no. intent and the ibogaine kind of just. says. out of the way yeah i've got some plans. for you. have you been to where. this originates from by chance no i it's. i'm sad to say i haven't there was a a. trip that i was supposed to take to. gabon and i took uh i paid a 3 000.

deposit even but then um ibogaine was. outlawed in canada so i didn't see. any income for a couple of years after. that or. from where i was sitting i didn't see. where any was going to come so i had to. cancel that trip i'm afraid but i. definitely want to go. my business partner just got back from. about a month and a half there so. we do the company does have some pretty. strong connections to gabon and and.

really want to make sure that as this. moves forward that uh those. those people in the country that have. really been the torchbearer for this. medicine get the the reciprocity it. deserves yeah. how many times have you done. ibogaine i've taken seven large doses. flood doses we call them. and how many years. this is i've been working with it about. 10 years so.

you know i try and do it about once a. year. i did the the most recent time was just. before christmas my partner brianna and. i. did a journey together. um i wish i could say it gets easier. it's. it doesn't get easier i've had some i've. had some beautiful. experiences through. ibogaine and then i've just had some. very challenging experiences through. ibogaine as well this last time was as. challenging as anyone i've ever had so.

maybe it does get easier for some people. but. do you want to share anything in. particular. through those seven times that was. just more profound. i think that uh. that time when i i stopped drinking. alcohol it was. that was i did the medicine with my. friend. mark howard who. i was featured in this documentary dosed. with as well. but mark howard has been to. gabon he has apprenticed under a shaman.

from that culture. from a particular lineage and in that. lineage. they take. medicine. and then they'll do something called a. soul journey so almost taking people. high on the medicine through. almost like a visualization exercise but. i think to call it a soul journey would. be a more accurate depiction of what's. going on. but he had me write out 10 questions. that he wanted me to ask the medicine.

10 questions i wanted to ask the. medicine and then through this soul. journey he essentially took me through. those questions so he waits until the. medicine is kind of at its peak and he. does a nice thing to to see if you're. ready for it. i had a blindfold on. and he starts tapping me here in this. third eye region and he goes tell me. when you can see my finger. and sure enough even with this blindfold.

on i'm like oh i see the finger. and then he knows you're ready and then. he took me through this. this exercise where. he kind of takes you to your inner child. and giving your inner child a hug and. one of the questions on the. on my list was i would like to see my. grandma and grandpa who had passed on. it's known as an ancestor medicine. people often see people who have who are. deceased. through the ibogaine journey.

so. mark brought me to. he said now go now find your grandma and. grandpa and my grandma and grandpa. showed up and. my grandmother was kind of the the. unconditional loving energy that she. always was and. my grandfather stepped forth and he died. when i was in grade four. and. he had. he was a world war ii veteran and he saw. a lot of action and he drove a.

motorcycle back and forth from the front. lines. and he spent most of his life after the. war trying to figure out what the hell. happened through the war he wouldn't. speak about his experiences with anybody. but fellow veterans he spent a lot of. time in legions the royal canadian. legion and when he traveled across. canada and through the states he would. meet with other veterans there. and he self-medicated with alcohol with. beer he would drink a a case of beer and.

night kind of thing and he was a lovely. man he wasn't an angry drunk or anything. like that but it really. kind of affected my mother and in some. way made me interested in addiction. because my mother growing up would say. don't do that you'll get addicted don't. do that you'll get addicted and in a. certain way addiction became the. forbidden fruit i wanted to understand. better but it also allowed me to kind of. as i did explore it something.

kept the distance between me and any. really bad. addictions but. my grandfather stepped forth in this as. i'm as i'm on the medicine and he said. trevor you need to stop drinking for my. lineage. it was just very clear that's what he. came forward with nothing else yeah. so later on in that journey mark had me. he said he had me flying and he said now. fly to your house and the house that i.

was living in at the time was this. beautiful. 6 500 square foot mansion on a couple of. acres where we treated people with. ibogaine and he said go to your front. yard. and he said is there any tree there. and i said yes and it was. this beautiful we had two beautiful. cherry trees in the front yard and it. was the time of year that they were. flowering so these two. giant pink flowery trees and he said go.

up to one of those trees. and i did and he said give the tree a. hug so i gave the tree a hug in my. vision. and he said ask that tree what the. meaning of life is or what the purpose. of life is. and i asked the tree what's the purpose. of life and the tree came back with the. answer. to flower. which to me was just a perfect answer. from a pink flowery tree which i think. speaks. volumes of what the true purpose of life. is i think that is what we're here to do.

is you know grow a solid base so that. you can finally flower. and then. he asked me another question he said uh. he said ask that tree. it was something about negative. tendencies like how to get rid of. negativity in your life and i asked the. tree whatever this question was however. i worded it and the tree said stop. watering your weeds. and to me that spoke about alcohol. and.

alcohol my relationship with alcohol. like i said i did my best to keep it at. a distance because i'd been forewarned. about the the addictive tendencies in in. our family. and uh but that didn't stop me from. drinking and. i've had some. i've i've been on some benders that's. for sure but at that point in my life. um. i. i i i wasn't drinking that much but i. was having a bottle of wine every now.

and then and it's not like the bottle of. wine created a tremendous hangover the. next day but it was watering my weeds it. was watering my depression it was. watering my procrastination it was. watering my lethargy. so. after this journey. i. kind of got up the next day and i was. speaking to mark about. i said yeah a whole bunch of stuff came. up about. alcohol and he said well and he had. stopped drinking a few years before.

because he really needed to and that's. the reason why he came into the the. iboga world is he needed help overcoming. some of those negative patterns in his. life. and. he uh he said well there's an argument. to be made because of the nature of the. work that we've chosen treating people. with addiction that maybe we need to. hold ourselves to a higher standard. and i said yeah you know that just makes. a little too much sense for me so maybe. i'll try and stop drinking. the next day.

i was uh driving home and had an urge to. go to the pub i always went to and flirt. with the pretty girls that worked there. and have a few beers. and i thankfully called mark and said. yeah i have an incredible urge to go for. a drink he said well. you don't have to stop forever but at. least while all this good medicine's in. your system and ibogaine does stay in. your system for a while after. you know maybe just skip it tonight so i. went home i went to bed i woke up the. next day and my relationship to alcohol.

totally changed like just any desire to. drink like you're talking about just. was gone. and i went three and a half years at. that point without a single drink um it. it. really kind of just fell away joyously. in the past had i. been the designated driver or something. like that and i was out with a bunch of. people who were drinking and i wasn't. drinking i would be bitter i would be. upset that i wasn't joining in on the. party but after this it was fine i was i.

would hang out with people who were. drinking it and it was okay yeah and. yeah just it just fell away beautifully. and then. i have. there was there was one very. interesting. special occasion that came up which was. my first glass of wine that i had after. about three years and i've allowed a. little alcohol in here and there but uh. you know. never been drunk and have really. yeah keep it at a distance and respect. its power and sure i'll have an.

occasional glass of wine on a special. occasion but. other than that my relationship to. alcohol really has completely changed. it sounds like you had like a lot of. visuals during that particular journey. i've i personally felt a lot more. i don't know really how to describe was. a lot more like into intuitive type. thoughts. or uh intuition. that's i'd say primarily that's the way. i experience the medicine as well with.

mark actually guiding me through a. visualization exercise and i'll kind of. picture this and go here. i. i. like when i. when i went to the front yard of my. house and hugged that tree i really did. feel like i saw the tree but i was. thinking even as i was explaining this. to you about my grandparents it's i. didn't feel like i actually saw my. grandparents it was like an intuitive. hit that they were there. and.

the very first time i did a large dose. of ibogaine i. i know that i did have incredible. visuals and it i i remember saying to. the people in the room that were sitting. for me i said oh i wish everybody could. see this. but. the next day and moving forward i can't. remember what i was seeing when i said. that. so. the. and then i'd say most of the journeys. i've had with ibogas it's more like. it's more like feelings that come across.

me that are delivering the messages. and. i think i think as i like to tell people. who are. going to be taking the medicine is not. everybody does have visuals. and that's okay everybody still seems to. get what they need from the medicine. and. it's. when you even if you do have incredible. visuals a month or two later when you're. thinking about the benefits you got from. that experience you're not going to be.

sitting there thinking about all the. things you saw it's more like what. changed in your life afterwards that's. what's exciting about this medicine is. what kind of how many degrees did your. course change after that experience. yeah definitely but i mean i've only. done it once. and i don't i want to do it again but i. don't think it's time yet. but it does uh definitely. it changed things continued to change.

for the better up to. kind of a certain point i think i may. have plateaued but it was. i don't say that lightly as i plateaued. like i don't know what else could have. gotten better um. but. let's take a quick break and then i want. to kind of get into a little bit of the. science and and and maybe some higher. consciousness type stuff if you're if. you're down to talk about that but yeah. let's take a quick break. [Music].

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the science behind ibogaine and why it's. doing. why it's curing all these addictive. uh addictive traits and and. it's just doing so much it's killing. anxiety. for a lot of people depression. addiction. it helped me be in the moment it helped. me with all of that stuff uh anger. issues what are some of the other things. yeah who knows it's so hard to put your. finger on all the all the things that it. does for people but.

yeah. so especially in working with veterans. you see so many guys coming in say that. they want to work with work on their. anger issues and. anger just falls away for a lot of guys. but yeah it helps people overcome. addiction i it helps people. um. i've seen these these substances help. people with. obsessive-compulsive disorder i've seen. overall these substances are generally. contraindicated to bipolar but i have.

seen so you wouldn't necessarily treat. somebody automatically with bipolar you. would need to really dig into the case. and and make sure that they're going to. be able to. to go through the experience safely but. i've seen it. there's there's one incredible case. study where a woman accidentally. overdosed on lxd took way more lsd than. she should have she was a young woman. she ended up in the hospital it was a. really rough night but when her father. walked in the next day she said it's.

gone. meaning the bipolar was gone and. years later. it's still gone. so i've seen ibogaine work for that as. well. just that's like an n of one just one. guy. so. who knows all the things that can help. with i've seen it help with neurological. disorders like fibromyalgia i've seen. it's really good at treating parkinson's. disease in. low doses you just microdose a bit of. ibogaine every day and it seems to.

better the the dozen or so parkinson's. symptoms so. but way more research needs to be done. these are. outlawed in the united states so it's. hard to do research it's uh. molecules that are. no longer patentable so it's not like. big pharma's rushing to to study. ibogaine. i've also. read that this is. supposedly might be able to help with. alzheimer's.

yeah who knows i've heard that as well. just you know the name of my business is. nouvelle v neurogenesis like it is doing. some kind of neurogenesis and. i don't know if that's going to work for. all cases. um we did work with somebody recently. who. was a. a former professional athlete he had. suffered a lot of concussions early in. his career. and. at uh at 65 or so he's starting to see.

some cognitive decline. and. we gave. him. put him through the protocol. um and he's going to continue with micro. dosing and he hasn't seen dramatic. changes. so. you know it's not a magic bullet for. everything it's i wonder if we if he had. ibogaine 20 years ago. or 30 years ago. what that might do for where he's at now. and that's kind of my intuition around.

alzheimer's and dementia i'm not sure. we're going to be able to treat the. worst soft cases with this medicine but. if you can catch somebody in the early. stages of those diseases i wonder what. would happen. is this is it just ibogaine that's doing. all this or is this. psychedelics in general no i i think. it's important to recognize that. psychedelics in general are incredibly. promising. and. there's a lot more science on some of. the other substances over the years.

because lsd was invented by albert. huffman in the. late 40s early 50s then. it was kind of shipped out to sandoz. pharmaceuticals. sent out to. psychiatrists and medical practitioners. around the world saying we found this. interesting molecule give it a go and. and let us know what you think about it. so. before it was outlawed there was massive. research on lsd in.

you know there's a proud canadian. history to. um researching psychedelics as well. albert. humphrey osmond was a british doctor who. worked in weyburn saskatchewan in canada. and there was a mental hospital there. where they did a lot of research on lsd. humphrey osmond actually coined the term. psychedelic. which comes from psycho psyche which is. the mind or soul even so psyche and then.

delic comes from delos which means to to. make manifest so these are mined or soul. manifesting substances and humphrey. osmond coined that term while he was. working in canada but at that hospital. they did. they did studies on alcoholism they. treated over 750 people for alcoholism. with a more than 50 success rate. um. psilocybin mushrooms or psilocybin is.

the active ingredient in magic mushrooms. it's kind of the the drug that i think. has been studied the most in this new. psychedelic renaissance that has started. within the last 10 or 15 years. psilocybin is very good at helping. people overcome end of life anxiety. so people who are. been diagnosed with terminal illness and. they take a single. psilocybin session and by that i mean. taking the medicine in a controlled.

setting with somebody sitting for you. with a blindfold on with headphones on. and a playlist and just going deep into. yourself for the six or so hours that. the medicine affects you and. people come out after that and. aren't scared of death anymore and are. kind of at peace with where their their. lives are headed. um. yeah so there's just incredible promise. mdma is the other substance. uh that. so mdma and psilocybin are both in.

clinical trials to become prescription. medicines. mdma has been brought through the. clinical trial process by an. organization called maps the. multi-disciplinary association of. psychedelic studies. and rick doblin is the founder of that. organization and he's basically been. working since about 1983 to. turn mdma into a prescription so mdma. has been used. it's being used to treat post-traumatic.

stress disorder and in order to get in. the clinical trial you need to have. post-traumatic stress disorder that. nothing else has worked for. and they're in phase three clinical. trials right now with breakthrough. therapy status meaning the fda. is excited about what they see so. they're they're pushing things through a. little quicker. because there's a great need for the. substance as well. and in the phase two clinical trials. um.

like i say you needed to have treatment. resistant ptsd and. 78 of the people after that protocol. which is three mdma sessions. split apart by a month each with. with support with therapy before during. and after. 78 of those people no longer qualify as. having post post-traumatic stress. disorder wow so it's just a real game. changer how long does that experience. last that's about six hours as well six.

hours yeah. yeah so the mdma is uh you know the. street drug ecstasy. and. yeah it's it's interesting what it seems. to be doing we call it the heart. medicine it really opens up the heart so. a way to treat trauma is you get people. to go back to the traumatic event and. relive it and kind of. it takes away the sting a little bit but. sometimes it's hard to get people to go. back to those traumatic events and with. the mdma in the system opening the heart.

it makes it easier to have compassion. for the situation yourself anybody else. involved and it just changes the the. context around the whole event so that. it doesn't. sting and trigger you the same way that. it used to. are. are different. psychedelics used for different. things. other than. because ibogaine helped me with. all of that. is. is it like dosing that's different or is.

it the actual ingredient or. am i making yeah i think you know. if. if somebody came to me. and. said. um. [Music]. like came with a specific thing they. were trying to overcome like if if. somebody was over trying to overcome. depression and psilocybin was available. and legal i would say start work start. first with psilocybin it might take care.

of you. it's kind of low hanging fruit rather. than having to. to commit to a 24 to 36 hour long. ibogaine journey you might be able to. accomplish the same thing with a. psilocybin journey i had. once i had stopped working with ibogaine. in canada. i. had a friend who reached out who had a. friend in. really she had just kind of come clean. with her friends and family that she had. a really big issue with cocaine and. alcohol.

and wanted to know if i could give. ibogaine treatment and i said well. ibogaine's a big investment it's it's. gonna cost for it for a detox it might. cost you you know ten thousand dollars. and take ten days and i wasn't operating. at that level at the time. i said but as long as you're able to. stop. stop the alcohol and the cocaine for at. least a week before so that you're not. in any kind of detox situation. then to do something like a psilocybin. journey. um that might take care of.

take care of what's going on so that's. that's what happened with this woman she. she was able to she was able to put up a. support mechanism whereby she wasn't. drinking for a week or using cocaine. stayed with her father i think and kind. of just detoxed that way and then came. in. with somebody and did a psilocybin. session and. i know she hasn't used cocaine or. alcohol ever since i think it's been. about three years now. wow so it's it's like a potency yeah.

it's it's just you know it's kind of. yeah who knows it heals it heals at that. deep level i think the level we're going. to talk about now just something within. the the deeper realms of consciousness. gets. gets fixed or. more insight is brought to help people. move forward without the need for those. substances they know are destroying. their lives. what about just. while we're on the topic of all these.

different uh psychedelics what about. ayahuasca. yeah ayahuasca has a plant medicine from. the amazon peru generally. um it's it's two plants brought together. one of the plants contains uh dmt which. is the psychedelic and then another. can the other plant contains an mao. inhibitor so when you take dmt orally. into your mouth it immediately gets. destroyed. in your stomach but when you have this.

inhibitor. mixed with it then the dmt becomes. orally active so then it stays in your. system. and. ayahuasca is kind of anywhere like a. four to six hour long. journey. and then you can also. you can also vape or smoke dmt itself. which is is. shorter and more potent i've heard it. described that. taking ayahuasca you you climb a. mountain.

for a couple of hours and then you go. down the mountain on the other end. whereas with smoking it you kind of just. teleport to the top of the mountain for. a few minutes and then drop back down. and that's that's nndmt which is. different than the 5meo dmt that you did. and that i work with. is that the most potent the 5mao. i think it's pretty potent i think as. you know you use less substance and it. takes you. further. or i don't know if it takes you further.

but it takes you kind of beyond. everything else what was your. what was your five meow journey like. oh man it was uh. well let me i had. it was. it's so hard to describe this stuff but. once again for me. it wasn't very. it was all ever all almost all my. journey. uh that i did with you ivagain and the. 5meo was more more intuitive in tuition.

type things there wasn't a whole lot of. visuals the the one visual. um well it started from the beginning. you know. i remember sitting there with you and. the other guy. getting ready to do it and you're like. look you might scream. it's a death experience. and. that was on one of the. things that we watched. prior to doing it and man i'm. i had not been.

i struggled with anxiety. that was a whole new level i haven't. felt that kind of anxiety in a while and. and i remember saying i was like. am i the only one that's scared shitless. to do this right now i was like is this. normal because. i feel like i should have been more. nervous about the ibogaine than the 5meo. and um and you guys both said yeah no. that's totally normal. and i did. then when we.

when i did it. when he gave it to me. it took me to. definitely took me to my most vulnerable. point that in my entire life. and uh. i felt like. everything bad. all the negativity. all the. anger. suffering.

all of that resentment. i feel like it got sucked out of me and. about. how like. 30 seconds 45 seconds maybe a minute you. know. and um. and i just felt like. all these. areas in my body just. we're all shaking i did i didn't feel. like my whole body was shaking i felt. like it was like. maybe like half dollar size.

knots yeah in my. in my body getting worked out that's. kind of what it felt like and then once. they were worked out it felt like. everything just got. like sucked right out of me wow. and then. um. and then it was all then i opened my. eyes and and. i was looking at the exact same thing. that i looked at before but it was.

totally different you know and. uh like people talk about the energy and. and all of that and that higher. consciousness and. i gotta be honest like i went down there. with an open mind. but i always thought that kind of stuff. was kind of hokey you know i was like. yeah yeah okay whatever now. i'm like. all in. so i. i saw.

it's weird like i said i saw the exact. same thing but it was. with new eyes yep it was like. just something switched and my brain. that's why i was asking about higher. level consciousness because i could feel. i could feel this energy. you know and i give a great description. on this uh. on that previous video that i released. but. i could see. all the. energy being transferred from thing to. thing to thing and it was all.

one. energy it wasn't like. your energy is different than my energy. and. different than. the tree and the gras you could for the. first time in my life i realized i was. that everything. had the exact same energy within it and. it was all being transferred. in every direction. being received being. sent out like it was all just one flow.

kind of i guess is. kind of the way i would describe it i. guess amazing and uh. and i didn't all the things that i've. been holding on to i mean i. i'd known you for what. four days at that point and i admitted. something to you that. i've never met to anybody. [Music]. not even my wife. right and one other person one other. person i admitted that to and uh and i. felt. it felt like.

great. you know and um. the only like visual visual that i got. was right when i first took it and you. did the countdown. and it was like this explosion of. like red yellow. pink. uh like kaleidoscope but that lasted. for. a second. yeah i mean it was like in and out. so. so. nndmt which is the ayahuasca dmt.

it's. especially when you smoke it or not. especially when you smoke it it overall. really does have the colors and the. kaleidoscopes and the visuals it's. um. people talk about. you know going to different dimensions. and meeting entities and machine elves. is a term that comes up there's some. some kind of machine l elve out there in. the cosmos that people bump into. and ayahuasca is uh a.

kind of more extended version of that. and incredibly healing incredibly. powerful. i have i've heard amazing healing. stories from ayahuasca which is quite. popular right now and i think for good. reason it's it's incredibly good for. people but yeah what you're describing. about. the. kind of seeing the energy and the. connection between everything after your. your journey for me i i often say to. people that. these substances they don't seem to add.

anything to anyone it's not like you. take ibogaine and this missing piece is. finally put in place and and you can. live life. better from then on it's more like. as we see life we're seeing life through. a filter it's like we see life through a. pane of glass. and as we live that filter gets dirty. our heart gets broken we're betrayed. things don't turn out the way we would. have hoped and that glass gets dirty and.

it gets so dirty that we don't even. notice it's dirty anymore. and like just imagine driving on the. highway and your windshield gets gets. super dirty you turn on the windshield. wiper and then all of a sudden you can. see clearly again and. and and light and it's beautiful outside. again but while all that gunk is on you. you can't tell how great life is and i. think that's what these substances do. it's not that they add anything to you. they're just really good at cleaning.

that glass from the inside out and then. once that glass is clean you're like oh. wow. i'm seeing things an entirely different. way because this glass hasn't been clean. in a very long time. but when you speak of. when i when i prepare people for the. 5meo journey. me and my team. um. [Music]. with when you take a boga it's. there's still very much a sense of you i. i wouldn't necessarily call iboga an ego.

destroyer a lot of these substances get. that label gets put on them i wouldn't. necessarily call it boga an ego. destroyer when you take a boga there's. very much a sense of you like did you. ever not know you weren't you were in. that room like you knew you were in that. room the whole time. yeah no i didn't you were doing yeah you. never lose a sense of self. exactly like i feel like we could have. this conversation that we're having. right now and be just as sharp yeah on.

that yeah and you might close your eyes. and have visuals but it's it's you. having the visuals it is you witnessing. something all that all there is. maybe you interact with the boga itself. and or a higher power but it is you. interacting with the higher power. and with the five meow dmt. which is. you know for. for context of where the substance comes. from it comes from the the back of a. sonoran desert toad it's an extreme.

excretion from the back of a toad that. you would take that excretion and put it. on glass and dry that out and then. vaporize that but there is also a. synthetic version of 5meodmt. which is what we use because. you know in order to get that. that. stuff from the toad you need to catch a. toad and scare it and kind of that's. where how the excretion gets harvested. so not entirely ethical especially don't. know if you don't know where it's coming.

from some people have toads for pets and. with them you can kind of play with them. like they're a dog and get them riled up. and that might be a more ethical way of. getting the natural source but we're. able to use a synthetic version which is. just as powerful in my perspective. and. that's what we use but when you do. 5meodmt it it. it does have the potential to be kind of. an ego destroyer. and what that means to me is.

we are completely interconnected to. everything else like. that sun above us you know it's it's the. source of life on the planet none of us. can do without that sun there is no. disconnection between us and the light. that that sun throws onto earth. and then that light gets transformed. into the plants that we eat that grow. out of the soil. that we walk upon. that then get turned into our bodies.

when we consume them. we. breathe air we can't go much more than a. couple of minutes without a breath of. air so we are. incredibly connected we are at one with. this thing that is our environment but. we have a psychological barrier that. says this is me and this is you and. that's the sun over there and that's the. plant over there and that's the water. over there in reality you know we are. those plants we are that water.

we are that earth we are that sun. so. for me what it seems that 5meodmt is. doing is breaking down that. psychological barrier between you and. the unity you are actually a part of. so it's uh. that can be. that can be fearful to a certain degree. i think what i what i probably said to. you before we we gave the medicine as i. was working with one. 5-meo practitioner at one point he said.

you might feel like you're going to. explode. just explode. you might feel like you're going to die. just die. and and that's the the preparation i. like to give. now is when you you inhale this i'll. count down from 10 and when you hit zero. just let go. and what does let go mean. let go means imagine you were just out. on the most. harrowing.

mission of your life. maybe you were out for four days on a. mission you didn't sleep at all but. everything with that mission went. perfectly you are absolutely successful. there's nothing to worry about there's. nothing to think over all you have to do. now is lay back into a feather bed and. let go. so that's what i tell people to practice. doing that because i think if you can. just let go on that level when you take. 5mu and just be like ah.

then that'll get you smoothly through. that. feeling of dying because you because. there is a psychological barrier it's. real and when you're about to melt that. psychological barrier away if you're. hanging on too tightly it could be a bit. bumpy. i. that was so powerful i i can't imagine. people not having a breakthrough but i i. mean i know that they don't. but it's i mean so the importance of.

actually letting go like you actually. what you're saying is you really do have. to. you have to trust. that. it's gonna be okay and um and i remember. saying that to myself after i was. screaming at the top of my lungs. um. i remember saying that to myself like. kind of coaching myself through until. i broke through. and um. and.

man like now that i'm thinking about i'm. just going back and i. i remember the first the first thing. after all the anxiety and all of that. got sucked out of me the first thing. that i've. heard. was. i swear it was the earth's vibration. have have you experienced anything. similar to that no but. no it makes sense. but um i felt that. i could feel it and i.

i could hear it and um. and then i felt like my breath turned. into the. earth breathing wow um that's kind of. what i felt but. and then you know and then and like i. said it was all like. intuitive type feelings the second time. that i did it um. i felt the presence of. my best friend. no visual no communication.

i just felt them. and um. and i started crawling into a certain. direction uh trying to. actually i don't know. it was just intuition you know it was. like i know he's right there. but um. if you had let's hear some of your. experiences those well. i'll say my experience next but. people i had uh i had a woman come.

through recently who had very suddenly. and horrifically lost her husband and. she went through the same protocol you. did and. after the. ibogaine experience it was it was good. for her but it it didn't give her the. closure on her husband like that. and it was after the 5meo journey where. she's like. he's with me he's with me like it just. totally all of a sudden it just.

completely made sense once you. i feel like. 5meo has 5meo is often called the god. molecule or the bliss molecule. for one nobody ever called ibogaine the. bliss molecule. but uh. but. i really feel like this. this substance does bring you to almost. like a heavenly state like like that's. what heaven's gonna be like and. the. the price to pay is in order to get.

there you have to die like a part of you. needs to go away for you to experience. that thing that might always be there. but there's a barrier between it and. 5meo seems to be very good at helping. you overcome that barrier i once did. 5meo. you can snort it. there's a there's a freebase version of. it and there's a salt version of it and. the salt version of it you can take into. your nose and it kind of extends the. journey a little bit. so i was working with a therapist who.

does psychedelic therapy and he's a. friend of mine and he just wanted me to. really try his protocol that he uses. which is with a substance called 3mmc. which is an obscure. molecule very similar to mdma. but what he'll do is the kind of a. guided session with the 3mc. and then about three hours into that. he'll offer up the 5 meo. so i. took the 5meo.

and. normally between before 5 meo you're. like you you're nervous as heck before. going into it. but um. because my heart was blasted open and i. was feeling great because of this other. substance 3mmc when he said do you want. 5meo i'm like yeah let's go i wasn't. nervous at all so that barrier wasn't. there to overcome and then. for me it was um. the way i describe it is this this.

journey it was like all of a sudden i. came to be. the period at the end of the last. sentence of the story of biological life. itself. so it was like i from this perspective. could properly see everything that had. happened in all of creation. and. it. the intuition that is that it is only. from this perspective that you can cast. a proper judgment on life itself.

so then the question came well. how was it and the answer came back it. was good. that was awesome the action the. adventure the heartache the romance the. wow life is amazing. and then it felt as though. um from that perspective it was like a. god-like perspective and then even god. died and it got even better from that. point forward really so yeah it was.

i've a couple of times. that i've done 5meo i'm really surprised. to come back to earth i'm like oh [ __ ]. this is still here we're still like i'm. at a point where i feel as though it's. gone it's over i'm way beyond even. thinking about it and then consciousness. returns to the body and like oh. there's still life to live here great we. can do that too wow and it's good to. know. you know i i think 5meo is really.

really like the red pill from the matrix. it's. you know it it lifts the veil on the. matrix and you see. thankfully rather than. like neo woke up in a dystopian robot. controlled future i think our. our actual beyond the matrix that we're. in on this earth is. creation is incredible yeah there's. nothing but good news. on the other side of that veil.

was that. visual for you or was that intuitive. that was more intuitive. yeah do you always wear the. the mask. um. [Music]. not always i don't think i had i think i. did have a blindfold on for that journey. that i just described. um i almost ibogaine i find it's very. helpful to have a mask on i feel as. though ibogaine really likes a blank. canvas my partner brianna the last time.

she did ibogaine she had a blindfold. that wasn't quite. light proof and [ __ ] even flickers from. the candle were coming through and she. realized afterwards that she wasn't. getting a. clear view in her visions because of. that. so i think ibogaine really does like a. blank canvas although i know lots of. people that haven't used it and still. seen the benefits whereas 5meo. i think it's just so powerful that i. don't know does it really matter if. you're wearing a blindfold or not it's.

kind of there's a chance it's just going. to shoot you out of your body anyway man. that's a that's like. that was a death experience yeah that. was. you know and. i. i know i have more to go. um but without. you know um just come i always feel like. kind of guilty saying this now but. when it when it first hit you know then. i i was. letting go and i had that breakthrough.

i was i was really worried before that i. didn't do. any research on 5mu i did research on. ibogaine because that was. that's the big yeah you know that's the. big that's the commitment and this. almost sounds like hey we're just gonna. give you a little icing on the cake to. go home with and i was so i didn't. really think much of it until we started. watching. uh the little documentary and then. hearing. you talk about it.

and i was like oh [ __ ] i think i should. have prepared for this portion a little. bit more than i did. and um. but i was worried. going into it i was like [ __ ] can you. die from this like can you od yeah you. know and that was in the back of my head. and i was like i'm not gonna google it. because i don't wanna. i don't wanna get paranoid uh before. but once i had that breakthrough. um i know i was saying my wife and my. son's name uh during my journey.

and for the first time. uh. like i said i feel guilty saying this. now but it was okay to leave them it was. okay. if i wasn't coming back. if that makes. any sense at all it was they're going to. be fine. this is where we're all going yeah and. this is. this is where we want to be yeah i can't. wait to be here yeah i can't wait till. they get to experience this and um.

and um. but. you know the entire experience i had. with you that entire week was so. profound. i journaled the entire thing. and i'm putting it in an envelope and. when. my son and any other kids that i may. have uh in the future when things get. too spun out of control for him i want. them to. read what i wrote. and. find a way to do that. and it's beautiful yeah but.

yeah i don't know if you need to feel. guilty about that i think that's i think. that's the truth i think life has our. back and. [Music]. and. to me in working with five. so many people now who. who go through an experience of. psychological death and see what's on. the other side it's it's to me it's the. greatest punch line ever the thing we're. all so scared of death. has. more life on the other side of it than.

we've ever imagined yeah in this 3d. world. yeah it's. what are some of the other experiences. that you've had. um well my very first. five meow dmt experience i i think. that's the most. uh. transformative. psychedelic experience in my life and it. was an interesting way that it happened. so i mentioned before that i used to. hang out at a shop called the urban. shaman in vancouver and they used to.

sell cannabis under the counter. in the the wild west of weed vancouver. bc. uh before it was legalized in canada. and. i was sitting at work one day i was i. had a sales job i was selling software. and the guy i was sharing the office. with. he. he said uh. i'm bored does that shop on commercial. drive still sell weed let's go get some. i said yeah let's do it so what i had.

been doing right before then is that i. was on a website called airwood. arrowwood.org and there's a whole bunch. of different trip reports of people. taking different substances and what. it's like for them. and i was on this website like i say we. were bored. and. i clicked on dmt for the first time. and. i had heard of dmt the active ingredient. in ayahuasca but i had never heard that. you can partake of it on its own.

and i was reading. these incredible trip reports of dmt. but had never heard of it before this. moment. and. i just said internally wow i really want. to try that one day then my buddy says. let's go grab some weed i said great. let's go we walked into this shop and it. was a strange vibe it was somebody that. i didn't know working behind the counter. and a whole bunch of. people and i did have a buddy that was.

in there they had a lounge with some. bead bag chairs where you could chill. out and i had a buddy that was there. and i said hey can we still get weed. from this guy and he said yeah but don't. bother. this guy is selling twenty dollar eights. and it was some hippie guy and uh i'm. like great so we went outside to do that. deal. and. i. i happen to mention another substance. that i had on me and he goes oh wow i'll. trade you that for some dmt.

so four hours ago i had never even heard. of dmt. now it's getting handed to me and it. turns out it was 5m eodmt. but um. i went back into the shop and i said hey. can we come back when this when the shop. closes in order to partake in this and a. buddy that i didn't know was was had. returned behind the counter and he said. yeah no problem so another strange part. of the story is as i'm walking out of. the shop then to go kill a couple hours.

before i come back a guy stops me in the. door of the shop and he says hey it's my. birthday i always do dmt on my birthday. do you know where i can get any. yeah dude actually i just came across. some so come back at seven o'clock so. me and him and another guy. sat down and and did dmt and the first. two guys went first and i get goosebumps. as soon as i start talking about this. one. but i went last. and it's you use so little of it like it.

was a few salt granules that we put on a. bed of weed in a pipe and i took the hit. and as it. as it came into me i could all of a. sudden feel complete awareness of every. cell in my body. and i could feel every cell in my body. aware of me being aware of it and there. was this interchange of awareness then. all of a sudden that awareness exploded.

to the whole universe like all of a. sudden i was aware of every atom in the. universe and same thing i could feel. every atom in the universe aware of me. being aware of it. and. kind of the. the ego seemed to disappear right away i. kind of felt a big spiraling at my third. eye area and. then i was it was as if i was just going. through this process i was witnessing. this process but it wasn't the same me i. always.

and. the there was a presence that seemed to. be guiding. what was happening and as i was there i. could hear. sounds coming from the street. outside and this presence indicating. that all of those sounds and every sight. i'd ever seen and every sound i had ever. heard had been sent to me with intent. like the present was literally pre-sent.

it was all very thought out every. smallest minutia and detail there was a. larger intelligence that had planned it. all out. and. i. it seemed to show me that. i am the one child of the universe. i am the christ i am the buddha. and. paradoxically so is everyone else we are. all that one child of the universe.

experiencing. the multiplicity that is the universe. and then. it. it i could just sense. just something and my ego started coming. back and i said what what does it all. mean. and this presence just indicated. non-verbally to me that it's perfect. that's what i was experiencing i was. experiencing perfection and i was trying. to put words to it i'm like what is it.

and this present said it's perfect. you can't mess it up. even your ideas of imperfection. need this bed of perfection before it or. else you wouldn't experience anything. perfection is. and that's. the lowest common denominator and the. highest common denominator is existence. is perfect like. and you can see it right here like. i don't know what's going on here but.

from what i'm told trillions of cells. are working together to create this. thing called my body which i have. do not have the intellectual capacity to. orchestrate yet it's happening. so there is some kind of a perfection. that needs to be there in order for this. experience to happen. so. this was all very short like maybe five. or ten minutes and then i could feel. kind of consciousness returning to my.

body. i was on this beanbag chair and there. was a chest table on the table in front. of me and i remember thinking that if. if i was oh yeah but before that i said. i was kind of shown that it was perfect. and i'm like okay. great can i go back to normal now. and the presence seemed to indicate that. yes. but this is what you're seeking. this is your heritage. this is what you're after in your i had.

just recently become kind of spiritually. oriented person at this the time that. said this is what your. this is what you're after without the. use of this substance is you're trying. to come back to this consciousness. that's that's the point of your striving. is to come back to this consciousness of. perfection but without the use of the. substance. so i said great and kind of returned to. my body and. yeah i felt as though that with my mind. i could move the chess pieces on the.

table in front of me which didn't happen. but consciousness returned to my body. and i got up and i literally started. jumping for joy. and. in some ways i haven't stopped jumping. for joy ever since and i think that i. think that's the real gift of. five meows it shows you beyond the veil. in a certain way and then. from then on you just no matter what. happens life's gonna still. throw you [ __ ] but you just can't. buy the [ __ ] in the same way anymore.

you know you've kind of seen beyond it. you've taken the red pill and you're. like. i used to get super pissed off at this. but i know it's not worth it anymore. yeah. have you ever been able to reach. anywhere near that level of. consciousness through like meditation. um. i think so. yeah i think i've gotten pretty close it. looks different maybe it's not quite as. dramatic as as that but. i think there's a quiet piece that i've. achieved where.

where i'm there and it doesn't. you know i i have a fairly consistent. meditation practice. it hasn't been as consistent lately but. yeah i think there's just a certain. degree of of peace that it. i wouldn't be able to function in. where i was before but there's a certain. degree of that which is still bridgeable. to hear which i i feel as though i. largely operate from i'd still.

get a little more caught up in the. [ __ ] than i'd like to sometimes but. yeah then you can always kind of fall. back into that meditation practice and. remind yourself oh yeah it is just. it's crap don't buy it how long do you. meditate for on on average. i have a uh. 21 minute meditation that i do it's it. was taught to me through. sad guru's inner engineering. sadhguru is an indian mystic he was. actually just on joe rogan i was very.

stoked to see him on rogan to get his. teaching out there. um. i. so i was raised into. a christian church i was born into the. united church of canada which is. of the. major. religious organizations in canada it is. kind of the most liberal like it was the. first to have to allow gay ministers and. it was the first to officiate gay. weddings so. it's a very uh. very liberal church.

and kind of doesn't doesn't rake you. over the coals of guilt too much it's. it was fun. fun religion to grow up in but at a. certain point in my. late teens. i just stopped buying it i'm like why. are these adults believing in this fairy. tale like this just doesn't make sense. to me at all. so i kind of threw the baby out with the. bath water and became largely atheistic. for. many years.

and then it was actually. in my. early 20s i. i realized then that books could. actually teach you something there was a. book my uncle recommended that kind of. took the weight of the world off my. shoulders at the time and i discovered. wow books can actually teach you. something so. that was when i really started a. self-education process and started. reading like crazy about how to be. successful how to make money how to be. happy. and one of those books was. the science of getting rich and in the.

science of getting rich it's an old book. it was written in 1918 or something like. that but there's a. the the bottom line is there is a. thinking substance that permeates the. interspaces of the universe and a. thought impressed upon this substance. brings about the thing thought about. so just in reading that paragraph at the. time. it just hit me i'm like wait a second. that sounds like god. did i throw. maybe i threw this religion thing out.

too soon so. i started digging into all spiritual. texts at the time and started to look. for. it seemed to me that everybody was very. good at seeing what. in religion was different from one. religion to the other but i started. digging in to see what's what do these. religions have in common. and i started seeing very clearly that. all these religions have something in. common they're all basically teaching. you how to be a good human being and. how to live happily and how to forgive.

and how to make the most out of life. and. i really kind of went on a. a very. you know clear. religious uh spiritual. seeking i started reading. any spiritual teacher i could get my. hands on and was really looking for. something and and read a lot over the. years and really had a great. intellectual understanding of so many. different teachings. and i didn't. but i didn't like the concept of a guru.

that didn't sit well with me. something about that word and something. about the implications i think there's. just been a lot of fallen gurus and. you know with multiple rolls royces and. things like that so i think that was the. impression i had. and then. i read a book called autobiography of a. yogi by paramahansa yogananda which is. actually. the. book that steve jobs when he died he had.

that book handed out to everybody who. went to his funeral. really and then an interesting. connection there is when i read this. book it's the first and only book i ever. read in its entirety on my iphone i got. a free download of it it was actually. the only book steve jobs had on his ipad. apparently as well so autobiography of a. yogi is. uh is yogananda's autobiography which. starts with him as i think the the.

fourth born child of an indian family. he knew right away that he was. spiritually oriented. his mother had been praying for a son. that might become a priest or a brahma. or something like that. and. he so his family kind of supported him. he was spiritually oriented supported. him on a quest to become a yogi. and. when he was 14 years old as is described. in the book the audiobook's awesome. there's a. audiobook of autobiography of yogi.

that's read by oscar winner ben kingsley. so you have gandhi reading he played. gandhi wow and so you have him reading. you the book and he's just got an. amazing voice. but. when yogananda was 14 years old. he. went on a mission to find his guru and. he had had dreams of this guru and he. was he was he was going to go find him. so he went all over india and saw many.

people who were. who could accomplish great things like. you know tame tigers and. you know. all kinds of spiritual things levitate. things like that like really incredible. things but none of them were his guru. and he knew that. until one day across a crowded. marketplace he saw his guru his guru saw. him they both instantly knew. they ran over and embraced each other. they're like finally finally.

so and the guru said you're gonna come. to my ashram in a year here's where it. is so. that starts his formal training to. become a yogi. and i read that i'm like all right i'd. be open for a guru if it happens like. that you know give me an across the. marketplace moment where i know on every. level of my being that i have found my. guru i'll take that. so for about three years afterwards.

i. anytime i. saw a spiritual teacher or even some of. the ones that i had bumped into in the. past i just did this inner check whether. i saw their book or saw them on tv or. whatever. i just did this inner check i'm like is. this my guy. is this my girl. and nothing until one day. i'm uh. i i had started the first ibogaine house. by then and i was just surfing facebook. which i'm not on anymore but was at the.

time. and a guy who. who used to be a yoga teacher at a yoga. studio that i went to shared this video. and i press play on this video and it. was this guy sad guru talking about fear. i think was the video. within 10 seconds i think it was more. like three. every. cell of my body lit up and i knew this. was my guy like i just instantly like. holy [ __ ] this is my guy and. i and he really hasn't disappointed.

since i feel as though. for the 20 years that i was. kind of investigating spiritual matters. before that. i developed a really good [ __ ]. detector like i could just tell if. something was off and what something. somebody was teaching me but with. sadhguru he's just been this peerless. teacher who. has helped. help me a lot and. what i did shortly thereafter is i drove. down from vancouver to san san francisco.

where he was teaching his inner. engineering which is. essentially the outcome as you learn a. 21-minute meditation that you then do. every day or a couple times a day. so i've been doing that the inner. engineering the the shambhavi meditation. for. about five or six years ever since and i. realized. once i started that meditation. practice that. intellectually i understood a lot about.

different aspects of religion and. spirituality and can kind of put them. together but until you have that daily. practice where you are just sitting. still and trying to get in touch with. something. bigger within yourself that you're. really just paying it lip service it was. it was once i finally started doing that. practice that i actually. started feeling a degree of spiritual. peace within me interesting. i've i finally started. meditating i've heard about it for years. i just never thought.

i would ever be capable you know of. sitting. by myself and that's another thing that. i vocalized to you guys after after the. ibogaine actually. and then i came home and and. started it right away and now i do it. every single morning i think i've missed. maybe two in the past two months nice. that's huge and um. sometimes twice a day sometimes up to 50. something minutes. i couldn't even sit with myself for. probably two minutes you know without.

without doing something without working. without. that's beautiful because i know that was. your primary. uh intent when you came down is you just. wanted to find presents in order to find. a way to just be here present. but man that's um let's take a quick. break all right. 75 of the human population struggles.

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sean. so we're back from the break we've been. really diving into spirituality you know.

and and and finding all that after you. take the medicine and some of your. personal experiences how many how many. people do you talk to after they go. through. the treatment. that. are more connected and and and stay. connected yeah that's a good question. i've had. one guy in particular but i've had a few. people kind of. reflect back to me this same thing but. basically he said i was an atheist. before this started now i know there's a.

god. and. in the movie i'm featured in dost which. is an excellent film it features it's a. documentary that features one woman's. journey using. ibogaine and magic mushrooms to overcome. her heroin addiction and suicidal. depression and at the end of that movie. i give her a psilocybin journey. and. she. she had really. she'd really tried to make.

the the 12 steps and aaa work for her. before that the one hump she couldn't. get over was the step one of the of aa. has something to do with a higher power. and trusting the higher power to help. you overcome your. dependence. and she just had as a lot of people do. they have a hard time with that higher. power thing either church hasn't treated. them all that well or they're just. kind of more naturally atheistic or.

agnostic and can't quite figure it out. but. after that. psilocybin journey that i gave her she. had zero problem comprehending that. higher power like she just really felt. in touch and that one with that thing. there was there was a part of uh. that journey. there were no cameras in the room when i. gave her that psilocybin journey but she. started she started making some noise it. was entertaining and i pulled out my.

iphone and just started filming and i. handed the phone to the guys at the end. and said i want a photography credit so. i got a photography credit in the end. and. uh but she one of the parts that didn't. make the cut. is she goes that wasn't an orgasm that. was a lifegasm i just felt every human. emotion ever. and it was through. that experience that she. you know she still wouldn't be able to.

describe god to you but she knows she's. touched on a higher something. and i think that's. when we were talking about psilocybin. for end-of-life anxiety i think it kind. of does the same thing and and 5-meo dmt. it really does have the ability of kind. of connecting you to a higher power. and i understand that not everybody's. comfortable with concepts like. spirituality or religion or higher power. even so.

when i'm. setting the intent of the week with. people that are there i'll explain to. them that look these medicines are going. to meet you wherever you are spiritually. i had one guy. he was describing his ibogaine. experience and he he said and then he. took me here and then he took me here. and then i was above the whole galaxy. with him and it was amazing and just at. the end of all of that i'm like who's he. and he goes oh jesus. you know so. there's. there's a chance of that guy was. buddhist that buddha would have done.

that for him so. there is. and then what uh well how i i'll i'll. set all that up and say that there is. something mystical about what we're. doing with these substances. and if you have a hard time with a. concept like mystical how about when you. cut your arm. you don't have to tell those billions of. cells how to come together to heal your. arm there is some kind of a higher. intelligence way smarter than the.

english-speaking voice in your mind that. leaps into action. and tells all those cells what to do. there is some kind of higher. intelligence coordinating it so i say. with these medicines we're at least. calling upon that there's some kind of. intelligence beyond what we know that. has the capacity to help us. let's call upon it let's bring it into. our lives. you you actually said that when we were. down there about the cells and that that.

really resonated with me and. it's it's just it's. i mean i really honestly believe that. it's you know i'd always heard this this. stuff unlocks your mind and and i never. like. really it didn't click. until. i did it and. it literally. unlocks. unlocks your mind yeah and i. i do feel that you're able to tap into.

i mean i don't feel i know you're able. to tap into a higher level of. consciousness which which it's. maybe it's. more intelligence. um. it seems like it. well back to the. the. i i mentioned this at the start that. there's a psychedelic component to where. aa came from. so bill wilson bill w the founder of. alcoholics anonymous.

his. his conversion as it were after years of. trying to overcome his own alcoholism. came from a belladonna experience and. belladonna is another psychoactive plant. so it was actually through a. psychoactive plant that he got sober and. then he created a a out of that. but then in his later years. he. there's a book called distilled spirits. which. you can look on youtube for the. distilled spirits book trailer it's a.

kind of a five-minute video that outlies. the book but it's the story of how. aldous huxley the famous writer who. wrote brave new world and. a book called island which is actually. his utopian. vision the last book that he wrote which. i highly recommend we've all read his. dystopian vision but his utopian vision. is much more compelling um. and. uh him as well as bill w.

were. the story of how they all came together. but bill w in his later life he really. wanted lsd to become a part of the 12. steps maybe step zero. because he saw that people did have a. hard time with that higher power concept. which is critical to. sobriety in those 12 steps so he saw. that by if we could include lsd as step. zero to have that spiritual awakening. that so often comes from these.

substances then that would make the rest. of the steps all the easier. because it is almost when people do find. sobriety in the end it is almost like a. spiritual conversion process that. happens for them. something shifts and even in your life. like without intent you had this. spiritual experience with these. substances. at our center and. all of a sudden alcohol is not as. attractive anymore yeah not attractive. at all.

how many. how many people do you keep in touch. with that you treat. quite a bit like i set up signal groups. for everybody to stay in touch before. and after and uh yeah the messages will. pop up in those. and some peop the door is open for. everybody to stay in touch with me and. some people do more than others but uh. yeah it's a treat to stay in touch with. people and even back in when i was. primarily doing detoxes to see some of. those people. still thriving and flourishing.

from that uh i feel as though we bring. people in for hive again and it's like. we bring them in and bring them get put. them through one of the hardest weeks of. their lives and it's like you're just. shaking them up like this and then you. set them down but they're on a slightly. different angle. and i feel as though with with i feel as. though we're successful. when people leave they might feel as. though they've made a 90 degree course. change or 180 degree course change or 45. degree course change but then when they. get home not everybody did ibogaine with.

them so you know life happens and and. things hope drag you down again but i. feel as though we're super successful. even if we just get a five degree course. change because a five degree course. change played out over ten thousand. miles you're in a completely different. state than you would have been if you. didn't get that small course change and. i think that's what we're really. effective at is and and and i think. that's all it takes is just giving. people that subtle course change that. five degree course change yeah that's a.

good uh. i like that i like the way you just. describe that. when people so i know. the addiction. versus kind of the tbi. anxiety ptsd. you know whatever you want to call it. that's it's two separate. treatments correct uh it's two different. protocols um but there's definitely. there's there's things that are related.

like for example when i. worked in vancouver. i. treated a special forces veteran who was. hooked on heroin you know so so there's. that. um. and the protocol is generally longer for. a detox so when when we bring you guys. in it's a five-day program we bring. people in on a monday send them home on. a friday with a detox it's generally 10. days at least so we'll bring them in for. a few days.

stabilize them. if they've been using street drugs for. some time we'll switch them to morphine. so that they're on a safe clean version. of an opiate for a few days we'll. hydrate them like you saw we do ivs. before and after. and get people ready so two or three. days after they arrive for a detox we'll. start the actual detox with ibogaine and. then they might require a couple booster. doses out the other end in case some. withdrawals come back and a minor form. will give them.

a boost that way but it's interesting. when you talk about. traumatic brain injury i mentioned. vancouver's downtown eastside which was. kind of the source of the inspiration. for me doing this work. and there is a longitudinal study. there's a group of i think around 400. residents of the downtown east side that. a group has been studying for a good. number of years. and in one of the papers that was. published a couple of years ago.

dr will panenka published this with some. other authors but. he found that of the people that he. studied down there they did a. study of traumatic brain injury and. every single person to the person that. he studied has a traumatic brain injury. so it just makes you wonder growing up. in. a traumatic. life with in abject poverty. with. things happening to you that causes a.

traumatic brain injury. it's a chicken in the egg thing you know. what what came first the traumatic brain. injury or the drug addiction. you know is are are they just. self-medicating traumatic. brain injuries using those substances. so. it's just interesting to me that now i'm. working specifically. with veterans. mostly specifically for traumatic brain. injury but back when i was working. primarily with addiction and i still do.

a lot of that down here we have another. house that we'll do that we we treat. addiction out of. um. but you know how many of those people. that i treated for addiction over the. years had traumatic brain injury and. that's what led them into addiction so. interesting questions yeah. how much of a role. does big pharma play. in keeping this stuff illegal do you. think. um i don't know that there is a specific.

agenda to keep these things illegal i. think. i think just the momentum of a system. that basically outlawed everything in. the early 1970s. it does just fine at keeping everything. illegal. everything being illegal does prevent a. lot of research or puts up a lot more. hoops in front of research it's only i. think in the early 2000s maybe late 90s. that. psychedelic research started legally in. the states again.

um. i i wonder if big pharma i think i think. there's probably people around that have. sat around board rooms. at big pharma meetings. hearing about the benefits of. psychedelics but then when they look at. it. from. their perspective i just don't think. it. seems feasible for them to develop a lot. of these substances. as pharmaceutical drugs and i think.

that's for a number of reasons you can't. patent a lot of these molecules they've. been around for a long time if not. forever in nature but even once they. were discovered in nature a lot of those. patents have long since expired. so i don't think there's just not big. pharma money to be made. on. these substances like there's no. there's no. you know there's no pfizer vaccine money. to be made.

on these substances so i think that. prevents these companies that are. normally the entities that develop drugs. it's just preventing them from. developing them as drugs because it's. it's not you know it's not going to look. fiduciarily responsible. for them to to go down these rabbit. holes so i don't know that it's actually. a nefarious trying to keep these things. from being developed more than it is.

if they don't develop them nobody else. can afford to develop them and they're. just not interested in developing them. to a large degree so the. the groups that are developing. psychedelics as medicines. maps as i mentioned uh rick doblin runs. maps as a non-profit. so. he should be successful in developing. this he'll only be the second non-profit. in history to develop a drug through the. entire drug development process.

otherwise it's these billion dollar. companies. that develop these substances only if. they think they can make billions of. dollars so rick has raised almost 100. million dollars in order to take this. through the drug development process and. it's taken him since 1983. wow so that's. not a very. walkable path for most people. there's a couple other. organizations that are developing. psilocybin one happens to have a. benevolent billionaire behind it that.

really wants to see these developed no. matter what one is a publicly traded. company. that. has raised a whole bunch of money to. make this happen but then. they're trying to develop intellectual. property around these. you know because they are dumping so. much money into them where's the ip so. that i can kind of. keep my piece of the pie here so there. there's been a lot of weird patent land. grabs to. to try and secure ip on.

weird things that like even touching. somebody somebody's arm. during. a therapeutic session like they've tried. to grab a patent on something like that. so there's just a weird a lot of weird. things that are happening as these. substances try and get developed into. pharmaceuticals. another angle to consider is. the opiate racket which i call it so you. know purdue pharma really created our.

opioid crisis that. north america is facing right now they. launched oxycontin. they said it was a non-addictive. painkiller even though it's chemically. nearly identical to heroin they just put. a special coating on it and sold it as a. non-addictive opiate which it definitely. wasn't. that created the opioid crisis that. we're in right now. so. there.

once you're physically addicted to. opiates it's not a moral failing it is a. physical addiction like once you're. your body has endorphins which are. basically the natural painkillers within. your body and when you take an opiate. which is an external endorphin basically. when you take that external opiate. eventually your own pain killing system. shuts down. so there's a certain pain that just. comes from living like your body is. producing painkillers right now that.

prevent you from feeling the pressure of. gravity upon you. even so when you take away that external. opiate and your body no longer creates. that internal opiate you go into serious. pain and that's what withdrawal pains. are it's like that opiate is no longer. in there so if you know that all you. need to do in order to get rid of that. pain is to take another opiate. you take another opiate so that's what. creates the. cycle of addiction and dependence with. opiates.

so. if you just ask you say well why don't. you just quit it's not quite so simple. it's not a matter of just quitting it's. a matter of going through weeks and. months of abject pain. if you're going to quit a substance like. that so. what. has been. created as a solution are opiate. replacement drugs so the popular ones. are methadone. and suboxone. so. those don't get you off opiates what. they do is they replace the illegal.

street opiates with a legal opiate that. you can go to the pharmacy and get some. people need to go every day in order to. take that. so there's a lot of money being made. in giving people an opiate every day so. there's a massive market. and there's a lot of people involved in. that market. a lot of companies involved in that. market i know in canada. for. if if somebody who is opiate dependent.

goes into a pharmacy and receives their. methadone every single day that pharmacy. makes six thousand dollars a year off. that person so they don't necessarily. want that person to get get free of. opiates. so. not to mention the doctors that. prescribe those and when you're on those. you you might need to go to the doctor. every couple of weeks at least at first. to make sure the program's working for. you maybe at least once a month so. there's a lot of money being made in.

order in keeping people on those so. if i were one of those companies making. all those that money and. and. somebody came along and said but wait we. could give these people ibogaine and. they could be off opiates. in a couple of days. it it might cost a few thousand dollars. to do that but it's not this ongoing. perpetual profit yeah it's not you know. it's not an opiate racket so. it's um. people. people.

it's it's not a conspiracy theory to. think that there's a bunch of people. sitting in boardrooms saying how can we. be more profitable yeah like that's what. people people seem to forget that and. they think that every that um i don't. know certain people think oh no they're. they're well intended. they would never do anything that would. hurt people well they've got those. organizations have a fiduciary duty to. keep those companies profitable as long. as it is within the realms of the law.

and then these companies get so. profitable that if they don't like the. law the way it is they can lobby the. government to change the law into one. that better suits them so. so yeah i'm not sure that big pharma. is. you know is. evilly plotting against psychedelics i. think there are just market forces that. are against the development of. psychedelics how much is how much has.

this industry grown in the psychedelic. world grown in the past. 10 years. it's really from. as me somebody who's been professionally. involved for 10 years and kind of been. watching as things. grow. i think we're way farther ahead now. than i would have thought we would have. been by now. in. in canada there was the big kind of. cannabis gold rush a lot of cannabis. companies went were allowed to trade on.

the the public markets in canada. a lot of those. companies. were crap and nothing happened but there. was a lot of speculation so a lot of a. lot of money was made playing the stock. market with those so a lot of. psychedelic companies have came on the. market especially kind of as of two. years ago you saw a whole bunch of. publicly traded companies pop up with. psychedelics on their mind i don't think. uh i wrote a piece that's i think the.

psychedelics time the psychedelic times. published on their website called. why psychedelics are not the next. cannabis because i think a lot of people. rushed in and said oh this is the next. cannabis we can all get rich off this. like we did off cannabis and it's just. not the same thing cannabis is something. that. you know a lot of people do use every. day it is something that people use. chronically so there's that market. psychedelics if you're doing it right. nobody's using them every day.

there is something called micro dosing. and micro dosing. you might take much more frequently but. that's a small amount of a very. inexpensive substance generally that. people are. micro dosing. so. you know i've so a lot of companies have. popped up to to. with the aim of doing something within. the psychedelic world and i know already. a handful of those companies have folded. because it's not quite as easy a. business model as let's just provide.

this addictive substance to people that. want it. people might say cannabis isn't. addictive that's not my experience i've. i've had a tenuous relationship with. cannabis my whole life. but uh but yeah but then there are some. really cool companies and i know some. people involved in some of those cool. companies i helped co-found the canadian. psychedelic association i was on the. board of directors for. maps in canada i was chair of the board.

there for a few years and through. through that i i actually helped kick. off the psychedelic business association. so one of the first trade associations. dedicated to psychedelic business and. there's some really good people in there. i just. think the business model is. we're still in early days as far as. regulation is concerned and there's. going to be need to be a lot of. regulatory changes that that happen. before i think a lot of these businesses.

are viable. and a lot of these businesses are trying. to take a top-down approach to. to. you know whatever their business is. going to be where. i don't know i just feel really blessed. for where i'm at which has really been. from a bottom-up approach i had a unique. window of opportunity where i was able. to legally do this in my home country. i'm now working in another country where. it's legal to work with it and. i'm able to serve a whole bunch of. people and i think.

we will we will expand but i'm happy. that we're not expanding. i'm happy we're doing this kind of. grassroots bottom row bottom up. growth. yeah rather than just trying to all. right i want to get in the psychedelic. business what are we going to do. yeah i didn't have to do that. you brought up micro dosing can. i'm interested in the micro dosing topic. mm-hmm um what can you kind of go under. that why people are writing yeah so. microdosing is uh.

is a sub-perceptual amount of. psychedelic that you would take on a. relatively frequent basis or you know. even just one day you can microdose but. let's say. it's generally about one-tenth of a dose. so if if a gram of mushrooms is a dose. then you might take 100 milligrams of. mushrooms to microdose or if a hit of. acid which is generally about 100. micrograms of lsd then you might just. take 10 micrograms of lsd ls or pardon.

me ibogaine to microdose it. a full flood dose might be a gram of. ibogaine you would just take kind of 10. to 20 milligrams of iowa gain to micro. dose so a really low amount you don't. necessarily notice that you've taken it. if you do notice it's just like a book. was written. you can look up called a really good day. which is one woman's journey using micro. dosing and that's just what she. described it when you microdose you just.

seem to have a really good day you're. not even sure why things just start to. flow. there it does seem to have an. antidepressant effect for some people. it's a bit of an. anti-anxiety although some. some studies are showing that. microdosing in some people can cause a. little bit of anxiety. microdosing with ibogaine. as i mentioned earlier seems to be very. good at treating parkinson's disease. i've seen that firsthand from numerous.

people now. that's i think a really. rich avenue of study yeah i look forward. to that getting more out there because. there's not a lot of good treatments for. parkinson's. um. and. it. the way i would do it ideally is you you. start with a big dose you start with. what you did you start with. a a flood dose of ioba gain or or a. therapeutic session with psilocybin. and i think with the larger dose it kind.

of clears out the cobwebs and then you. live a couple months and then you might. just say you know what i need a little. touch up and then that's where. microdosing can come in there's. different protocols like with mushrooms. you could take. three days on two days off or five days. on two days off you want to give your. body a little bit of a break. from psilocybin or it might not be as. effective like if you take two big. mushroom journeys two days in a row you. won't really feel the mushrooms on the. second day because your receptors are. already flooded and.

with uh microdosing psilocybin there. there's an argument to be made that you. want to put some day's break in there. ibogaine's really hard to come by and. there are sustainability issues with. ibogaine so you just really if you do. get your hands on. some of boga you need to know that it. comes from a. ethical source. um what so you don't really feel like. you don't you don't have. any visualization it's not near as. strong you might not even realize yeah.

anything yeah i think if you're doing it. right you don't even notice that you've. taken anything except by the end of the. day you look back and you're like wow. that was a really good day. um and then. be careful because you're dealing with. sacred plant medicines that have a mind. of their own sometimes. i've uh. i gave my father a micro dose of a boga. once and he went on a full-on journey it. was very unexpected. and uh. yeah that's a heck of a story but it.

sadly i don't think he'll ever try a. psychedelic again because that microdose. didn't go as planned. but um i've had that with other people. too like sometimes a micro dose of. mushrooms lays you out. and. i think you really need to be cautious. of that if this medicine. feels it's time for you to learn a. lesson you might you know you might need. to spend a few hours laying down so i. think especially when you're first. starting with micro dosing make sure you.

don't have too many plans that day just. to to see if it resonates all right with. you. how long do people microdose force it. like a specific period or is it like an. ongoing. i'm doing this. starting today until. i die. my advice is just to do it organically. is uh. the these substances seem to have an. innate intelligence within themselves so. the medicine might tell you you've had. enough you know you don't need to.

microdose for a little while and then. there's. there's. probably not much. danger in doing it. quite frequently. the parkinson's patients i've worked. with they will microdose ibogaine every. single day and they don't notice at all. that they've taken. a psychedelic substance what they notice. is that they've got smoother movement. and their parkinson's is better and they. can smile more. um.

with lsd and with mushrooms. there is a. it triggers a receptor that. there is a theory that micro dosing. lsd and perhaps mushrooms too frequently. could be hard on the heart. so. people should investigate that but i. think as long as you're. you're you're just doing it every now. and then. and i think that's how it should be is. every now and then oh. an amazing story from microdosing was um.

and again just because of the age of the. person you know. tread with caution on taking this as. advice but. my partner has a friend who. was. her family was very much suffering. because their. 12 year old daughter had massive amounts. of depression couldn't function couldn't. go to school. was really bringing down the whole.

family and. my. my love briana she said to her friend. you know you might want to try micro. dosing mushrooms and she's like we will. try anything right now. so. this person got a hold on of some. mushrooms and they were ground up and. put into capsules for microdoses so 100. milligram per cap. and she started putting like half of. that cap into the daughter's smoothie in.

the morning and she said. she was well aware that she was taking. some kind of a medicine. and it dramatically changed her she. she. within. months she was going to school all the. time no problem. um this woman credits brianna for saving. her family. and the amazing thing is. that girl no longer requires the. medicine. she for a while there. she would be like yeah mom i need my.

medicine today or yeah i feel like i. might need my medicine today or even the. other kids were like she needs her. medicine today. but after a few months of this she is. completely healed as it were and and. doesn't hasn't required microdoses for i. think it's probably more than a year at. this point wow yeah that's amazing yeah. just so is it is it actually. regenerating. like brain cells. more studies are needed but a really.

cool study i can reference is uh there. was a study with rats and. the. the rats heard a buzzer and the floor. that they were standing on was. electrocuted hear the buzzer electric. shock here the buzzer electric shock. pretty soon all they needed to do was. hear the buzzer and they would. jump like they're about to get an. electric shock. so they gave there were two groups of. rats they gave one group. a large the equivalent of a large dose.

of psilocybin. and they gave the other group the. equivalent of a micro dose of psilocybin. the group that was given the large dose. of psilocybin. the. end of the experiment was how many times. will it take them to hear the buzzer. with no electrocution so that they don't. jump when they hear the buzzer anymore. how long does it take to condition that. fear response out of them again. so with the large dose of psilocybin it.

took 10 times after 10 times the rats. didn't jump anymore with the micro dose. it only took two times no kidding. so. paul stamets was the one he's a there's. a movie on netflix called fantastic. fungi. paul is an acquaintance of mine i'm i'm. pretty good friends with his partner pam. crisco who's a physician that started. the canadian psychedelic association. with me. but um. i i heard paul describe that study and.

then the theory is that maybe when you. take the larger flood dose of the. substance you're dealing with these. neurons that are super delicate so it. might clean everything out it might be. overall beneficial but in order to. rebuild these very sensitive small. neurons. maybe that's what the microdose is there. for without completely bombarding the. system with psilocybin the microdose. just allows those really small. cells to regrow in the gentle way that.

they need. so i think. yeah i think microdosing. psilocybin again. it's it's sad that these these. substances are 50 years behind on the. research because all research was. outlawed. in the. you know. from the next scenario yeah yeah. yeah this stuff is just it fast it's. fascinating yeah to me. so paul stamets he he has something.

called the stamet stack that he. recommends which is to take psilocybin. mushrooms micro dose those along with. lion's mane mushrooms which are also. known to be very good at neuro. regeneration lion's mane are awesome to. take i love taking that and then to add. a little niacin in there because niacin. gives you that niacin flush which means. kind of the the ends of your nerves are. getting activated so his theory is that.

the niacin kind of activates those areas. then the mushrooms go in. to those activated areas and help. help some regrowth wow. well let's take a quick break and uh. when we come back let's talk about. you know what you're doing. preparation to go through the journey to. get the treatment what it what what the. experience is like. during the treatment and what they can. expect afterwards. and uh and where to find you right done.

all right man thanks bud. what's going on patreon. [Music]. join me on vigilance elite patreon. for a live video teleconference. all right trevor we're back let's talk. about. what the experience is like if i'm gonna.

go through your treatment but but from. your standpoint so. i would like to kind of start with. intentions because. that was the one thing that just kept. getting hammered into me. before i got there. while i was there. and even even the like the follow-up. stuff after i left was all you know. remember your intent remember your. intentions and and and. come to find out i do think that was one. of the most important probably the most.

important thing for me to prepare for. was. intentions yeah i think that's it is so. important intentions and expectations. and we work with uh. vets of course and. vets. when they sponsor. special forces veterans to come down. they. insist upon coaching before and after as. well so there's a great. coach and then team of coaches behind.

her that. are. just exceptional at getting everybody. ready so they would have worked with you. on trying to figure out what your. intention is and i think intention. intention is almost the direction that. you're going to try and point the entire. experience like what are you really. trying to overcome. you know you could just go into it and. say you know let whatever happens happen. and that works sometimes for some people.

but. if you're going in you might as well. have some kind of a compass point some. kind of a north star that you want to. keep coming back to. to frame your experience so if you want. to maybe your intention is to overcome. anger. if you're in the middle of. a part of the journey where everything. just seems chaotic you can kind of steer. back to well what does this have to do. with anger you know or. if it's to. have more love for your family or more. presence for your family.

as just through the middle you can kind. of bring it back to that like what am i. here for well i know what i'm here for. i've spent plenty of time. focusing on what i'm here for prior to. this with the coaches with the team on. the ground with us. so. yeah intention is just. it's just that what do you intend to. accomplish through the journey which is. super important otherwise. you might not get what you're after. do you think.

have you had anybody come down with the. are there wrong intentions. are there intentions that. um i think there is i think the medicine. can often be very literal so. you want to be careful in your intention. setting and one. experience that i described and i might. have described it to you while you were. there is i had one guy. who came in really relaxed. former teams guy but you know pretty.

chill guy and he came in and didn't have. a lot of anxiety he was looking forward. to the journey but then once the journey. kicked in he raised his hand. i went over to him he's like man i'm. super paranoid i'm super super paranoid. right now i'm like okay well that can. happen just recognize you're in a safe. place we're taking good care of you here. and i'll check back in about 15 minutes. check back and he's like oh. i'm so anxious my anxiety is through the. roof.

and i said well let me check with the. doctor if you'd like we can give you an. anti-anxiety if it's if it's over the. top but let me check with her and i'll. get back to you so i came back 15. minutes or so later and said the doctor. is willing to give you an anti-anxiety. if you'd like and he's like yeah maybe. then he goes you know my main intent was. to try and understand my wife's anxiety. better. so i laughed about that loud in the room. and said well man do you maybe you want.

to tell the medicine that you've got the. message so you can move on from this. so. that's just a perfect example of uh you. know intent that could have perhaps been. how can i have more compassion for my. wife's anxiety. or how can i better support my wife. instead he got a lesson in anxiety which. i think served him in the end and i'm. glad we got that through him because i. said you know how about you tell the. medicine you've gotten the message and. when i checked on him 15 minutes later.

he was fine. laughing about it already. but uh the. the medicine kind of force fed him some. some anxiety because that's what he. wanted to better understand and i've. seen that with fear as well people that. say they want to better understand their. fear rather than how do i overcome my. fear i had one guy who. was stuck in a fear-based situation the. whole time and and you know thought we. were. he thought he was having a heart attack.

basically. because the the heart monitor beeps a. couple times i now warn everybody that. no matter what we do sometimes the heart. monitor beeps it doesn't mean you're. dying. so he uh yeah he was just in a. completely. enmeshed in believing that. you know it was the end for him so he. got he got a hard hard lesson in fear. and eventually he popped out and. he he gleaned some really good lessons. from that but i think uh.

yeah being mindful in how you set your. intent he can make things a lot easier. or harder on yourself. depending real quick i just want to. interject. this question just came to me um you. know i've we obviously have a lot of. civilians. watching as well and you do treat. civilians it's not only special. operations veterans. and. a lot of civilians. have asked me. they.

they don't want to go because they don't. feel that their. whatever they've experienced their. traumatic event doesn't. it's not it's. it doesn't measure up to. to what mine was or what some of the. other guys was and and. i'd tell them all look that's all. relative. and what what what do you say about that. um i have a. uh. a good friend uh and a. a fairly famous doctor he's uh dr gabor.

mate i highly suggest your. audience check him out he wrote a book. called in the realm of the hungry ghosts. which. talks about his 12 years working on. vancouver's downtown east side as a. physician down there. and he essentially discovered that every. person to the person that he was working. with down there had an incredibly. traumatic childhood and and their. addiction largely grew out of them. trying to self-medicate that pain from.

that traumatic childhood that they. didn't properly know how to process. but that. dr mate's next book is called the myth. of normal. and what this book. touches upon it should be released in. september i believe but having speaking. to gabor. but it touches upon is that. the whole world is sick. like none of us is growing up in a. a world that is not traumatic. every aspect of life on earth right now.

carries some degree of trauma with it i. won't say every aspect of course not. every aspect but life in general people. are growing up in a traumatic world so. normal is a myth because i think normal. would mean we all grow up in in happy. loving families with a happy loving. community happy loving nation. if we have nation states in a normal you. know so. i think.

to answer your question more directly. these substances are very good. at getting people from -10 to zero. but they're also really good at getting. people from zero to plus ten. so i i often say to people that. ibogaine's so powerful it can get. somebody off of heroin almost overnight. what can it do for you. yeah that's a good point yeah. so you it doesn't matter you don't have.

to have. i don't think so if you feel the call. answer that call if you don't feel the. call you don't have to force yourself. but if you're feeling a call to. to experience. some of the enlightening aspects of. these substances i think you should. track that down. if if you feel that call towards. ibogaine specifically i'd say you're. you're hooked in what i call the boga. vortex once once you hear about a boga. and it interests you you're eventually.

gonna do it yeah yeah that's what. happened to me yeah exactly and i'm glad. i did it. but um managing expectations uh for me. was another thing that i was. really trying to get a grasp on. and and so can you talk about. managing expectations before you get. there and while you're there. yeah so. i do what i can to prepare people for. the boga journey in.

a myriad of different ways there's. different advice that i can give that. will help people navigate the experience. like. ebola is like stepping on a roller. coaster. when you get on that roller coaster when. it comes on. when you're going up the hill it's it. can be freaky then you have lots of ups. you have lots of downs you have some. loopty loops. you have some tunnels of terror you. might have some water features with some. purging. but the only rule of roller coasters is.

don't try and get off in the middle of. the roller coaster. and if i ever see anybody struggling. through an experience like the ones. we've been talking about today it's when. they're trying to get off the roller. coaster it's like no i don't want this. but you know you've already taken the. red pill. you're kind of you're in for the ride. the beautiful thing about roller. coasters is they do finish so even if. you're terrified the whole time. eventually it's going to end but some. people love roller coasters some people.

hate roller coasters either way the. roller coaster does finish and. you can. do things to prepare so that it is more. enjoyable for you. so. i do all i can to help people prepare. and i also say. i'll give you a bunch of tools to. hopefully help you navigate through this. experience but at the end of the day get. rid of your expectations because the. expectations are going to get in the way. if you think ibogaine is going to be one. way you're going to be so sorely.

disappointed. especially if you've never done it. before even. for me who's who's done it multiple. times now you think it's going to be the. way it was last time it's not at all. it's still got a certain signature. that's the same but. it's not at all the same so. it's it's great to set an intent which. is kind of like your north star which is. i'm going to do all i can to to discover. this about myself while i'm on the. roller coaster while i enjoy the process. but other than that you kind of just you.

need to let go of any expectations. because like i say some people get. visions some people don't if somebody. goes in expecting wild visions they. might not get them and then they might. be disappointed when there was no need. for that disappointment if they just let. go of the expectation in the first place. interesting. let's talk about. we're down there now. we're at. the facility. with the house whatever you call it yeah. so we have a big beautiful.

house that we operate out of we can. bring in up to five people at a time. at this current house like i say we do. have another house that we'll do detoxes. out of but currently we're bringing. people in primarily for this psycho. spiritual protocol we'll bring everybody. in together on a monday. monday is. we'll do some medical tests upon arrival. we'll do we'll have some blood drawn. even prior to arrival we're having. people send us ekgs so we want to take a.

look at an ekg prior to arrival. there's some other things we do to help. prepare like making sure people go. through coaching sessions. upon arrival some more medical tests we. do another ekg upon arrival. are you guys still doing the sweat lodge. too on the first day. so monday they arrive we'll do medical. tests we'll do blood work we'll do an. ekg. we've included. a sweat lodge we go to. an indigenous elder and do a sweat lodge.

which is an incredible way of. kicking off the week it's a great way. for team building it's also a great way. to. take the first step in kind of. overcoming something that seems very. intense that you can't get through did. you like the sweat lodge. i liked it until the very end. no i i did like it yeah i thought it was. i thought it was really good yeah i've. never done one before i've always heard. about it and. first like i said first i was like all.

right this is a this is kind of weird. and then. and then. that last portion i was like oh man this. is definitely. doing something yeah and i just want to. get the hell out of this thing that's. right but um. yeah yeah it's a great it's a great way. to kick off the week so. amazing house that we work out of. amazing food we have uh. incredible chefs who cook for people all. week long. monday we also do a couple of circles to.

heart to again start helping people. prepare for the boga we run them through. a few exercises. tuesday. some more good food. we'll do some breath work we've been. bringing in a breathwork practitioner. which is another nice thing to do prior. to going into the ibogaine journey we. bring in a massage therapist. from a. will serve lunch around 1pm and then. from then on they'll fast because it's. best to go into ibogaine on an empty.

stomach and we'll start the ibogaine. process on tuesday night. um we'll start with a fire circle and do. a little bit of a ceremony again to. really get the intent and the vehicle. secure. and then. we'll administer the first dose of. ibogaine. and. then within about an hour we'll have. everybody move up into the treatment. room we hook them up to heart monitors. as i've said we have a doctor and. paramedics on duty all night plus.

me. or another ibogaine provider. specifically. and then the ibogaine journey goes. through the night into the next morning. we'll do some ivs first thing in the. next morning and then from that point. you're kind of able to to go to your. room or into the rest of the house as. you would like you probably won't sleep. much that next day. that next day is often returned referred. to as the gray day. where you you're just super tired.

you've been through a lot you don't feel. the benefits yet. you're kind of like why the hell did i. just put myself through that yeah yeah. i seem to remember you looking at me. in a similar fashion on that day. and uh. yeah but then eventually start feeling a. bit better and then come kind of dinner. time. on that night you might be ready for a. meal. and then you get some. sleep and then it's once you get that. first night good sleep after iba game.

that you wake up the next day and you're. like actually. i feel pretty good. so that next day we'll do. some yoga and meditation we bring in a. great yoga practitioner. and. then we work with 5m eodmt. on. that afternoon so that's i set aside. about an hour per person. and uh. yeah that that might not take that long. maybe they need half an hour or 45.

minutes per person but then uh thursday. night's taco thursday. and. we'll uh we'll let you let you go again. on friday morning. you guys just run a top notch. everything from the food the medical. staff. the the actual house that you're staying. in. you take civilians where do they find. you how do they get in touch yeah our. website is. nv which stands for nouvelle v.

neurogenesis n-e-u-r-o-g-e-n-e-s-i-s. dot com so nv neurogenesis dot com. and um. yeah i've got to say that it's it's a. very basic website we haven't really. needed to market at all cool and it'll. just it'll be linked below like i said. man i'm just really happy that you came. out here for the interview and and it's. just. an honor to be able to give you the. interview and and uh i just wish you the.

best of luck beautiful thanks so much. sean for uh number one for coming down. and and doing the work because. you're definitely making the world a. better place by. by sharing your new self one of my. favorite quotes is who you are speaks so. loudly i don't hear what you're saying. and i think that's uh that's what. happens to people on. that when they go through these. transformational journeys they don't. have to say anything they become some.

kind of a walking billboard for the new. thing that has grown out of. all of that hardship and then the. transformation that comes after it so. thank you for doing the work brother and. thanks for having me. one last thing. if you had three people to recommend for. this podcast. who would it be. um. rick doblin. the founder of maps. he's an amazing man to talk to.

and a real pioneer in getting these. substances. more widely available. um gabor mate. who i mentioned the doctor who. focuses on trauma. and there's a movie that you can watch. on youtube that features him called the. wisdom of trauma. an amazing guy. and.

the pressure the pressure. i don't know i'm i'm thinking of another. kind of psychedelic oh gee. a man by the name of phil wolfson. he. is uh. a doctor that operates out of the bay. area who is a pioneer in ketamine. assisted psychotherapy. another uh really interesting. conversation with that guy perfect great.

we'll reach out okay cool all right. cheers. you.