Tom Satterly - Delta Force Operator | SRS #77 Part 1

this next episode documents a. very tragic and horrific yet very. important piece of American. History it's known as the Battle of mogu. a lot of you know this from the movie. Blackhawk Down this episode's going to. be broken up into three different. portions the black talk down battle of.

Mogadishu portion will be released. tomorrow October 3rd on the 30th. Anniversary I can't believe it's been 30. years the 30th. anniversary of the battle of Mogadishu. and this is this. individual's last. time that he's going to give his. full testimony on everything he's. witnessed during that event.

and uh it's a real. honor for me to be able to do that and. um like I said this episode's broken up. into three different portions we start. with his career at Delta which you'll. hear today tomorrow it will be all about. the battle of Mogadishu Black Hog. down and the day after that we will wrap. up his career at. Delta meet his beautiful bride and talk.

about his. transition and what helped. him. reintegrate into civilian life ladies. and gentlemen without further Ado please. welcome retired Delta. operator Tom satly to the Shawn Ryan. Show please like comment and subscribe. to the channel head over to Apple and. Spotify podcast leave us a review tell.

us how we're doing and as you already. know there are thousands of. reels for download for free in the. description you can use them get. creative with them make money off of. them put it on all your social media. channels all we. ask just tag the Sha Ryan Show and give. us a little credit we love you all enjoy. the. episode God Bless. [Music]. America.

Tom satly welcome to the show man thanks. really appreciate you having me on it's. an honor to have you yeah quite quite. the honor for us and me yeah thank you. so I think we connected through your. friend Chris VanZant he came out here we. did an interview awesome human being and. he just I mean he had so many good. things to say about what you and Jen are. doing with all secure foundation and he. wanted to meet to make sure that we I.

think we talked about it too on his. episode so so um this has been a long. time coming. and I don't even know how to introduce. you man but um I'm going to attempt to. in a minute but um I just want to talk. about this interview is I mean you have. 25 years in military correct yes 20 of. which is in Delta yeah and it would be.

damn near impossible to cover everything. that you've seen and experienced through. 25 years of war and. um but we're going to do the best we can. so it's hard for me to remember all this. I'll bet it is man but I just want to. say you know I don't want you as we go. through this interview I don't want you. to assume that I know anything about you. uh I want you to be as descriptive as. possible because.

you've just you've seen so much you've. experienced so much and your story I. think is a very important piece of. American history that I want to document. and we're going to obviously discuss. very in-depth uh mental health and so. the way I want to do it is I want to it. sounds weird saying this to you but I. want to I want to. qualify why you're relevant to talk. about post-traumatic stress traumatic. brain injury mental health and we do.

that here by by going and digging into. your past and uh I know it's some of. it's very traumatic but uh I just. appreciate you being here and it it. truly is an honor man no thank you I. appreciate that and um you know this is. going to be released on the 30th. anniversary of. Mogadishu and when you walked in here. today you had said that today.

is the 30th Anniversary I'll let you. finish it yeah of a task force Ranger. occupying Somalia and moving into. Mogadishu probably not a coincidence. yeah you know what I don't believe in. those and I didn't even know today was. the day until I saw it you know on the. US sock page or something it was just I. was like oh wow okay at least I've. forgotten it you know at least I. forgotten that you know a little bit of. that part of my life yeah do you want to. forget it I do I don't want to forget. all of it but there's a lot I don't want.

to remember you know um when you do it's. more traumatic it re re-triggers the. trauma and so there's a limit to how. much and how long you should be. recalling these stories and. regurgitating them whether it's on stage. or in a movie or anything because your. brain doesn't know the difference. between reality or not so as I talk. about those things it it I hate the word. trigger it you know it it re. resensitizes me to those moments and. days and I think about it and I couldn't. tell you what what I think.

about it's just a deep sadness that. comes over me of that time yeah and. everything lost um it's not a specific. moment really CU they were all pretty. horrible and then the ones that weren't. horrible you know are not as. memorable yep I can understand that well. let me give you an introduction here. attempt to so Tom satly you were a. command sergeant major retired at Delta. Force this is going to be your last.

interview on madisha and what happened. in. Somalia you're the founder of the all. secure Foundation you are a husband your. father you're a Christian United States. Army Special Operations Command 25 years. 20 of which was in Delta Force over at. for Fort Brag one Silver Star four. bronze Stars two with Valor four desent. defense meritorious service medals two. joint service accommodation medals. meritorious service medal the list goes.

on I don't want to bore you with your. own medals but um you. know. just like I said at the beginning you've. had a hell of a career both in the. military and outside of the military and. uh I want to cover as much as possible. but um. everybody that comes here starts with a. gift. [Applause]. so got little something there.

so not the traditional vigilance leak. gummy bears I'll give those to you down. sarus but this is we talked a lot last. night about brain health right and so. and we got into talking about mushrooms. and functional mushrooms and stuff and. so this is from layered. superfood and uh that's a creamer. there's also a coffee in there and. there's a functional mushroom blend and. so it's a functional mushroom coffee.

nice it's a functional mush it's called. performance mushrooms you can put that. in with your coffee and then that's a. creamer which also has you guessed a per. performance mushroom blend so no but. it's super good for your brain You Know. It uh helps with cognition Focus energy. balance all that stuff so can I just. take it all at once well what if you. want to but uh test it out see if you. like it yeah that's awesome I appreciate.

this my pleasure this is cool I love. brain health and work man because I I. need it a lot you know. yeah yeah a lot of us do but um I want. to I kind of mentioned at the beginning. we want to we definitely want to hit on. mental health and so I thought it would. be good usually we wait till the very. end for that but with what you're doing. with all secure foundation and and. everything that you stand for post. service you have a chapter in your book.

that is a very good description of. post-traumatic stress and so I was. hoping before we actually start and get. into your story that you could kind of. talk about postraumatic Express like you. did in the chapter of that book yeah. I'll give it my best to do it like I did. in the chapter um to me. now and and I end up telling stories. like from back then until now because. there are two different perspectives in. my life now and I see that.

post-traumatic stress is that thing that. we try to get those who it's a. biological change in your body from a. traumatic. experience and so many War Fighters just. think that I've trained through this. I've been trained for this I I'm good. with this I don't have post-traumatic. stress and and our mission is to teach. them that you've been trained to go to. war you haven't been trained to come. home from war you have no idea how to do. that and the repetition built up over. the years of muscle memory doing the. same thing being rewarded for violence.

and. aggression and then you come home. feeling like a god you move into your. house again and you you take over the. family and if you're retired or done. with your. job you kind of present that to them you. don't just change who you are when you. come home it took you 10 15 20 years to. get that way you're not going to change. back you're going to have to put in a. lot of work and you can't out command it. what I tell people no matter how badass. you are you can't just stop this from. happening it's biological and you can't. tell me it didn't happen to you you just.

can't tell me that you have civilians. that see something on TV they get. post-traumatic stress you know you get. in a car wreck you get post-traumatic. stress and that biological change just. or traumatic brain injury the same thing. you know creates suicidal ideation it. creates the whole I'm nobody and the. depression sets in and then you start. beating yourself up and then you start. feeling like I'm the only one that feels. this way and that's more isolation and. less telling and of of your story story. to people and then you start thinking.

well nobody understands me anymore. nobody gets me no one will ever get me. that takes you down the path of suicide. and suicidal thoughts and ideation which. we found out that um the percentages of. of personnel suicidal ideation is pretty. high the higher levels of units that you. go is daily talking to all the veterans. in active duty we've talked to could be. daily I want to run my car into the. bridge just when you're angry ending it. ending that argument ending that feeling. is what pops up into your.

head and so then we move into secondary. post- trumatic stress a lot of people. don't even know about secondary. postraumatic stress we call the eggshell. syndrome where when I go home or or. somebody goes home and they're behaving. like they behave you know they're giving. directions like they do at work and. they're acting like everything that. happens is going to be life or death. that's because your brain doesn't know. any different your brain knows chaos. something out of order means death. possibly so just because it's the kid. putting the dishes and leaving it in the. sink to you that's chaos to you that's.

wrong that can't be right and the reason. it can't be it's got to be corrected is. because we could die if not and that's. what your brain thinks so it takes years. of of of therapy years of coaching and. starting with the thing that affects you. most I believe when I started getting. help with postmatic stress it was like a. transcendental meditation one of those I. went to anger management first and then. Jen was like you should try. Transcendental. Meditation that again Transcendental. Meditation transal meditation basically. more meditation to me I didn't know any.

difference and I was like sure I'll try. that you know I I was flirting with her. I wanted to marry her and it was one of. those things I'll do anything to not be. a rude. person and so I started transiting. meditation which was a bit at the time. woo woo for me you know it was like no. that doesn't work but I'll do it for her. um and I went in her sitting in front of. this this doctor and he's talking to me. and he's like okay and snaps his fingers. whatever it was and he continued to talk. and I was doing my thing and uh I just. came back to him I'm like what happened.

you know what just happened how long has. it been he was like 20 25. minutes like you're kidding me you know. your guy was like barking like a chicken. or something was like clucking and. flapping around he's like no no no you. were just relaxing and we were talking. so that started it that started my. belief that uh you could do things and. so I just kept going to. change you were talking in. meditation apparently yeah under my. breath he he didn't tell me he goes you. were just venting and I don't know if he.

could hear what I was saying but it was. one of those just I don't even remember. a lot of it you know I just I was like I. woke up from asleep interesting but I. was just staring at him like I'm staring. at you we were closer and then I was. like what happened cuz I knew it was. some time it's like you were just. resting then you find out that that. traumatic response being biological. caused your body to Twitch and shake and. that's your body releasing that trauma. that has stored up over the years so. post- drumatic stress is B logical it's. something everybody gets when they see a.

traumatic event and it takes effort to. get out of that depending on the. repetitive traumatic. events and then and then stacked on top. of each other and then your fight. flatter freeze never turns off so you're. always in fight. mode and you have to work to reset that. you have to work behavioral change to. reset and change how you behave as a. human because you've grown used to that. over so many years and the secondary. postraumatic stress is when I come home. and bring it and throw it over the. family. everyone has to walk around and we call.

it eggshell Str and where there's like. all right I change who I am so you don't. become who you become and so I'm no. longer who I am as a. spouse I've become different just to. cater to this issue that came home and. spouses don't even know they they do. that until you bring it up and then they. they have that Awakening of oh I have. changed who I am I have become somebody. different and maybe I should work on. that and then that can be the cause of. people growing apart you're no longer. who you were when you.

met interesting that's a great. explanation and now the secondary PTSD. I've not heard of until you guys were. talking about it last night so thank you. for enlightening me no one does. everywhere we go you know we're to the. point of we think we've been doing this. for eight years and we think people know. what's going on and every time we go to. speak at military bases or anywhere. postmatic stress sure we've heard that. how about secondary postraumatic stress. two or three hands will go up in a room. of 300 like still where did where did. you where did you first hear about it.

study research probably Jen um just. digging into what we were doing we tell. her we're not the doctors we're not the. psychologist we're the lighthouse come. in we've lived the story we didn't study. the story and so it's one of those we. can talk about it you know what makes. you professional how many years in. college versus how many years of. Hands-On you know so am I professional. in postraumatic stress I'm a. professional in having it and what not. to do and so I share that with people. here's what I went through here's how I. did tried to get help and here's how how. that help worked for me will it work for.

you maybe but why not try it yeah you. know it wasn't negative effects on me so. you should try everything until. something works you know you wouldn't. give up at work so I try to get people. not to give up at home yeah you know you. said another I think it it was either. you or your wife Jen said another. statistic last night that I didn't know. and um I believe it. was. 140,000 veterans have committed suicide.

on the high end yeah on the high end. compared to. 5,653 is that number might be off a bit. I think it was 5,550 and then after the. 13 Marines in the final jumped. up compared to the suicide over the same. amount of time you can be between 60 to. 140,000 depend on who you've listen to. good of course the government wants to. lower that number right um but through. all the research and study we know the. people that actually dig into it it's a.

lot. higher that's a that's a big problem and. it's just it's snowballing yeah you know. and so so well thank you for the brief. and I just I want to paint a picture how. real uh this is before we dive into your. story. but let's dive into your story now. where'd you grow. up yeah I'm a hooer Columbus Indiana I. was born in Seymour Indiana um John c. town and then uh yeah I grew up in.

Columbus Indiana was little small town. cornfields you know it's just one of. those probably smaller than this town. really um back when I lived in it it was. just uh The Good Old Country not even. the country I was in the middle of the. country and the city as you would call. it you know in Columbus but yeah pretty. normal private school life growing up. went to Lutheran School first eight. years and then then moved basically on. where I live lived I had to move I went. to Junior High at one high school and.

then I finished high school at another. High School oh okay so just moved around. um lived in the same place it's just the. way it set up because I went to the. private school for the first eight years. it threw me out of that public school. system so I had to join the public. school system and I didn't had zero. plans in life you know I was like kids I. don't know the kids. do and started moving up to graduation. you know um I was like what am I going. to do in life you know I had no idea I. just started swinging a hammer and. building houses. well let's before we get there what were.

your parents who were they oh yeah Steve. Martha they're both um pass now U my dad. passed I think 18 and my mom passed um. probably of Co before they knew of Co on. January 2nd think. 2020 and uh yeah and that was uh and I. have a brother and a sister as well I'm. the youngest of the family you close. with. them uh try to be you know I spent 20. years 25 years away um from my entire. family so and they pretty much lived in.

the same area um their whole lives so. they grew up visiting each other and. seeing each other and still hanging out. and growing old together really as a. family and I was gone I'm the guy that. came home and visited at Christmas maybe. every two or three years for two or. three days told stories and I'm still. alive you know and then back we. communicated and and we were close we. were always close but via phone letters. yeah you know communication how about. growing up. yeah my mom worked all the time she went.

to school all the time and my well she. went to school all the time and worked. my dad worked all allot the times to to. help fill in that void um for her going. to school and that was just I think a. childhood event for her that created her. to to love the. uh the attention she got for good grades. that she didn't get at home and her. family so that kind of that carried into. her adult life of going to school all. the time for that confirmation of I'm. somebody you know my dad was a guy that.

would just support her they met very. very young 16 maybe or younger I mean. his whole life and both of them were. only with each other their entire lives. wow you don't hear that very often no. and they had us all very young too so I. can imagine the struggles my parents. went through growing up to raise us as. kids you know I look back on that now as. it's an older person it's an older. person and I'm so grateful you know for. what they did and how what they taught. us what did your dad do he was a tool.

and die maker so he you know whatever. that means he'd makees small parts of. machine shops for engines and things for. cumins engine company okay where they. make I think a lot of the cumin diesel. engines in in Columbus Indiana so he. would make the smaller parts for that. that they needed and that's pretty much. what he did his whole life what were you. into as a. kid running around and getting in. trouble and playing army in the woods. shooting each other with BB guns and. botle Rockets through the down spouts of. your of your uh you know your your.

gutters and stuff trying to get more. distance and it went from the little. army guys and blown them up with. firecrackers on the hill to each other. with BB guns and don't pop it up too. much you know and and then shooting. bottle rockets at each other just to. kind of just to have fun you know we we. had an empty lot next to our house and. it was just cover over grown over in. Weeds and and grass and trees and we. mowed like a path through it so you. couldn't see straight in and then we cut. out a circle and midle and put a tent up. and that's where we'd spend all summer. just in that tent and you know in the.

day we run around and at night we' run. around even more you know just parents. would just let us go I was a third like. I said so they had done it by then they. knew I wasn't going to die and they knew. I was going to break it you know I might. break it but I still wasn't going to die. and so they had settled down as the. third kid they're like yeah go off and. have fun you know you you'll come back. one day so that was pretty good sports. yeah yeah I ran track and and uh played. football I started out doing uh the. speed thing like oh you're going to be. fast you know tried to get me to high.

jump I'm 5'10 you know I think 6 foot. was the highest I could high jump I was. like that's the limit you got people. high jumping way higher than that so. they moved me. to the 110 high hurdles and the 330 low. hurdles and so I ran you know I ran the. hurdle race for a while and it was. killing me short legs you know I made it. to Regionals one time but I was the only. 510 guy there running that race you know. there's I'm running with the dudes who. knock every one of them over and still. win I'm just trying to hop up and over. these things as I run like well you're.

kind of stronger long distance so let's. do the one mile the two mile and then I. moved into cross. country and then I played football but. you know I wasn't very good at football. I think I made one touchdown of my life. and it was probably an accident and I. was a guy that was a good defensive guy. right I could block a pun or I could. tackle you know somebody pretty good but. it was one of those you know there comes. the ball as a wide receiver I'm like I. don't know what to do with that thing. when it gets here that whole mindset of. I'm going to drop it you know and uh.

telling yourself you're going to drop. the ball and of course I dro the ball so. still on the sidelines a lot I gave. basketball a try for a bit what kind of. trouble did you get in as a kid you know. things like jumping uh swimming in the. river jumping off the water fall that I. wasn't supposed to do cuz people drown. there every now and then you know. climbing on top of empty houses and. jumping off and then we would run around. and take somebody's Volkswagen in their. driveway and turn it sideway you know. pick it up with a couple of friends and. turn it sideways so they couldn't back. it out without doing a 100 point turn. you know things like that just uh kid.

fun you know Corning cars and putting. little yeah little those little drink. cups off the golf course that look like. cones yeah would take a bunch of paper. ones and line them in the street like. that at night and the cars would come up. and see them and then realize they're. paper not spikes you know like throw. sand at them and take off running did. that to a cop once didn't realize it was. a cop immediately lights on us as we run. up through the golf course trying to get. away terrifying moment but we kept going. back. but nothing serious no no.

arrests no gang activity nothing like. that nothing small town was your dad did. your dad did anyone in their family have. any interest in the. military or my brother my brother joined. as a junior and he went to basic. training in between Junior and senior. year in high school and when he was in. senior year I was a freshman or a. sophomore and I made fun of him. he came back had the haircut he was all.

Army ready to roll and I like I made fun. of him you idiot you're joining the. Miller you join the Army you're so. stupid I'm going to go to college you. know and had no idea and uh his career. went up until uh he got diagnosed with a. disease that he couldn't stay in anymore. so he end up teaching he was going to. teach at West Point for a bit he was a. drill sergeant for a while and. uh yeah and I you know I never thought. that I would join the military so I end. up making fun of him. and but he made it he tried tried to. make a career of he would have you know.

and I could tell by the way he still. talks like he misses it you know when. somebody doesn't complete something that. they wanted to complete yeah and by no. choice of theirs you know you could tell. he's still it was in his heart. still well what got your. interest a friend of mine one of my best. friends in high school had joined the. military and I'm like you're crazy man. you know it's like I'm off the basic. training and then you know I'll be back. in about two or 3 months and so I'm. swinging a hammer you know graduated. high school swinging a hammer building. house I thought this is cool I'll do. this the rest of my life and then he.

came back from basic training and he was. we were on our way to John Cougar. concert driving in the car and he's. telling me all about basic training and. he's going to Germany and he's going to. have a good time and getting out of. Columbus and I thought man I'll never. leave this town if I don't make this. jump right now you know and he kind of. just gave me that boost and that was. like an hour hour and a half drive at. the most that kind of changed my life of. I'm going to do this on a whim I'm going. to go in for four years get some college. money get out and do some college. finished College really parents just.

started covering covering college and I. you know college to me was a party so. they didn't work out and so when he had. that idea if he was going to Germany I. thought man I I get out of the country I. can go visit something for free you know. I just got to go through a couple months. or whatever you know that sounds great. and he's he's alive so it can't be too. bad and so in that hour and a half drive. I I decided I joined up there I went to. the me station and signed up for that. was probably late summer of ' 85 and I. ended up coming in February ' 86 you got. to be kidding me. so you joined just to get the hell out.

of Columbus Indiana yeah that's it to go. maybe to Germany and get get $3500 or. whatever they were going to give me for. college back in the day you know you. give us 1,200 we'll give you 12,000 or. whatever it was which I've never used so. I want my money back but yeah just it. was on a whim it sounded good and I had. no plans to do more than four years and. I probably thought I'd do as little as. possible while I was in you know I had. no idea what I was getting into wow and. that turned into a 25y year career 20 of.

which a Delta yeah I think I blinked and. I was like what happened what happen you. know I wasn't expecting that everybody's. like tell me your background and and how. great and your Civil War grandparents. you know great grandma like no nothing. nothing I grew up thinking my grand my. great grandpa and my grandpa had one of. them was in bed on oxygen all the time. as I grew up the other one was missing a. leg in in bed all the time and I don't. know where the came from he lost that on. a land mine and he got that from mustard.

gas or something you know I was like oh. so I told that story for years until I. think talking to my sister and brother. like no it was never in the military at. all I'm like where did that story come. from somebody told me something you know. so maybe the grandparents were spreading. a little dis I don't know a little. disinformation out there maybe but I. never considered it until that drive up. wow so well what did you join to do in. the military I was going to be a medic. you did you look at all the branches uh. no no I walked into the recruiting.

station whoever jumped up and grabbed me. he was in the Army so I think I was. heading towards the Army like hey we'll. be stationed together I'll put him for. Germany and I got in there and it was. what do you want to do I want to be a. medic my mom was you know studying to be. a doctor she was going to school to do. that and she ended up running hospitals. um administratively as a. nurse and I thought I'll get into. medical Fields you know and this would. be the best way to become a doctor you. know I'll be a medic in the Army and uh. they talked me out of that like do you. like to blow stuff up like that'd be. great you like to build things I go yeah.

he goes about combat engineer I said. that sounds cool right I know now they. needed to fill a quota right steer you. towards what they need the most yeah so. yeah I signed up to be a combat engineer. and uh was my first visit to St Louis or. to Missouri you know Fort lwood Missouri. we like to call it Fort lost in the. woods it was just I remember being a. tick field. environment heat humidity ticks and. drill sergeant that just chewed your ass. every second of the day oh you went.

through basic in Missouri yeah. interesting basic and o one station unit. training so I never left Missouri after. basic some people packed up went to. another another post to learn their. craft what what what year is this this. is ' 86. 86 yeah and I stayed at the same place. with the same drill sergeants who. already knew how to chew your ass and uh. half the group got to pick up and move. out and you know you kept in touch with. them like oh it's like living in college. you know we're we're in the barracks we.

got to do what we want got times and I'm. like I'm still living basic training man. you know these guys are still treating. us like. [ __ ] then packed up moved to Germany I. got I got two years in Germany I was. like yeah my buddy's over here you know. so I went and visited him a couple times. and end up getting married on the way to. Germany it's like one of those things. like I'll never see a girl again I. should get married right away you know I. don't know what I was thinking and then. Jen later's like you didn't think. there'd be girls in Germany Claudia. shiffer for hello and I'm like well you. know I was 18 or 19 I didn't think of.

[ __ ] so one of those quick marriages. that yeah was a girl I just started. seeing for a little bit and we end up. getting married and so that put me in. Germany for three years if you show up. with your spouse you get an extra year. so I stayed in Germany for three years. and it was one of those um you learn a. lot in the regular military you know and. it's it's great it's necessary and you. learn a lot of what you don't want to do. anymore mhm and we had a patoon sergeant. that was a former Hungarian. Soldier and he knew a bunch of different.

places in Europe to go train and he was. pretty cool introduc just uh to French. Commando School German Ranger school. patoon confidence training which is. taught by Green brayes down in bad TOS. Germany and all of those things that I. ended up doing and and getting the taste. of I was like I like this this is more. more than motorpool Monday changing the. oil and you know cuz I was an APC driver. and uh it was fun you know as a kid. driving an armored personnel carrier and. you know doing all that but he gets old. the maintenance the boredom you never go.

anywhere you don't do anything there's. no money then when you get a little. taste of more I was like that's that's. that's what I want you know that seems. more of like I like to do the excitement. the adrenaline and that's when I started. leaning that direction. interesting at the day I figured it out. was a day one of my close friends from. basic training was over there as well. and he had a picture of his dad holding. him as a baby and he's wearing his dad's. Green Beret I thought man I want to do. that that's cool and I want to do that.

and that's what I set out to do um it. just took a bit to get there based on. getting promoted fast in the regular. army and then not having primary. leadership development course which the. greenberries won't take you unless you. have but they the regular army wouldn't. send me because I already made E5 like. we send the e4s to help them make E5. you'll go later and I'm like well I. can't get the bonus I can't get in so I. just had to take my own path so I think. I reenlisted for jump School just so I. can get to Fort Brag somehow which.

worked and then I ended up looking for. the recruitment station on Fort Brag. found it right away and signed up and so. you wanted to be a green bre the command. wouldn't let you in so you just you this. is where they're all at yeah found my. way there and and did it myself the only. thing I lost that that was $20,000 you. know the reinvestment bonus and I was. like kind of devastating back then right. an extra 20 grand when you're making E5. pay but well what was the reenlistment. for it would have been reenlisting for.

the Green Berets they let you so they. knew you were they would have let me but. I didn't have that school so that that. was the one thing holding me back. regular army wouldn't send me there so. so I just reenlisted for jump school. okay I got jump school and then that. sent me to Fort Brag gotcha and that's. where I started humping it and looking. around for for the recruitment station. how'd that go it's pretty good uh went. in there and uh I mean I was kind of. easy and it took a little time and. they're like all right yes I s date you. know right here and then sfas was a was. a nightmare in itself you know it was.

one of those introduction to a selection. process I remember I was being terrified. the night before I went it was one of. those laying in the bathtub with a sick. stomach like what have I done you know. what's going to happen your mind's going. crazy like they're going to kill me. they're going to stomp me I won't be. able to make it you know I'll never do. it and I went and tried it and it was. kind of fun you know it was a nightmare. but it was kind of fun being tested like. that and then passing each hurdle you. know feeling a little bit better about. yourself each. time and uh it just gave me a taste of I.

want more you know I want more of this. and after you still wanted more yeah. yeah it was. uh was addicting well how long how long. were you in service before you went to. selection for the green bar probably. about four years four years about four. years 3 years in Germany so maybe three. and a half years and I was in. selection and then right after that I. went home selection took me up to. Christmas of.

89 or yeah 89 or 90 and then I had a. little break over Christmas and that was. when Panama happened so that year I went. back home on vacation and panal happened. I'm like I'm missing a war you know I'm. missing a war and you feel like oh I. didn't get a test my medal I moved I. came out Airborne unit goes down to. Panama on I'm like I missed it I missed. it and so I started the Q course early. early the next year did the six month.

there then moved into language school. for Persian fary and no I don't speak it. it was one of those four months of. sitting there listening to some guy say. some words I'm like man this is not. happening this is not going to happen. you know trying as hard as I could one. guy in class was doing his homework in. like. cerlic like that's the guy you need you. know I wanted to learn Spanish or. something you know I they were like. Persian farsy I'm like that means fifth. group doesn't it Middle East you know I. was thinking seventh group South America.

something you know back then you have. your ideas of what's cool and what's not. based on no. information and to me seventh group. seemed cool fifth group like oh Middle. East uh little did we know right because. I got the fifth group as they were. deploying to the first golf. war and as soon as I landed a fifth. group they all took off and I stayed. back because I had a selection dat for. the unit and that makes you non-. Deployable I'm like number two right I'm.

freaking out number two I just missed. I'll never go to war I'll never get to. go to war so how long were you in how. long were you a Green Beret before you. went to selection for Delta hm two. months that's it two months I was in. language school and I had a couple there. was two unit guys that were going. through the Q course with me to change. their MOS because when you're in the. unit you still get promoted based off. your job title do you get promoted fast. yeah probably you know you pull your. secret file over here and that that.

makes everybody interested like a secret. file put him on top you know he's secret. mhm so it helps you but they they needed. to change their MOS because they're. competing with the same people of their. job so they went to the Q course to hope. to get promoted quicker and that's when. I met them but I didn't know where they. came from they never told you you know. and uh I was in language school and they. popped over at launch break one day and. like hey uh you need to call this number. you know we think you have what it takes. we watch you in the Q course we work. over here you think that'll be cool you. know we we're both from Delta and I was.

like is it better than this you know is. it cool like yeah yo it's real cool I'm. like well then I want that you know and. he's like call this number I like okay. and I put in my pocket he goes call it. now like what go call it now as. recruiters who just set up a time to. come give me a PT test and psychological. evaluations before they accept you and. so that started that process of uh doing. that I'd only been introduced to the. unit one other time I was in Germany and. they had a recruiting briefing in the.

movie theater in Vil flick in Germany. and it was fre FES and above and I was. in E4 the time so I was probably in a. year and I snuck into the briefing. anyway and I sat down and there was a. guy in a bad suit down in the front you. know with one of those little circular. projectors where the picture pops up and. goes in you I don't even know what they. called anymore and he's got it on a. screen in the movie theater and he he's. just standing there and it's F It's a. Full Arena you know and hits the little. button and it pops up and it's just a. shitty picture of the Earth planet earth.

goes this is our training area and then. clicks it back. off any questions and I was. like I want that right I thought that. back then I go I need that and then. somebody raises her hand like uh do you. get more pay in in Delta he goes if. you're worried about money we don't fing. want you I'm like I got to have that hey. can you grow your hair long in Delta if. that's all you're worried about we don't. [ __ ] want you and I'm like I love. that dude right I love that dude he's. calling people out on their dumb [ __ ]. and you don't do that as much you know.

and the regular and the regular forces. it's just you just don't do that you. don't call anybody out he's calling. people out I'm like man he's saying it. like it is you know he say I don't want. you matter of fact I don't want to be. here he said they make me come do. this and I was like I got to work there. and then I forgot about it you know and. then I saw the greenberry picture I'm. like oh that's what I want and so when. they said yeah we came. from from Delta and we think you have. what it takes to to go to selection not. not to get be in the unit but to go to. selection you know they're very very.

clear about. that it's like all right you know I'm. still young I'm like sure did you ask. them what they saw on you that no they. thought you make didn't think of it. didn't even didn't even consider it you. know I just oh I asked him is it is it. better than this because I I'm just not. even here yet you know I'm still going. to language school and is can I do this. you know do I owe somebody anything no. you can do anything you want we'll do. anything we want you know and so that's. when once they accepted me for selection. I finished language school and I had a. selection date for that.

spring it was non Deployable right so I. didn't know that so when they packed up. went to you know fifth group packed up. went to the first golf War I was like. man I missed another one you know and so. I'm back there with the SAR major one of. the SAR majors and uh he's like I heard. you're going to Delta you're trying. selection I go um yeah I'm going to try. he's like if you don't make it you're. going to group engineers and you're. going to be painting no parking signs. your whole career and I was like oh [ __ ]. he didn't they don't want to lose people.

to Delta and if I don't make it I'm. screwed man I'm screwed I'll never have. a career here now he saw me like a month. and a half later and I was already. painting you know curbs yellow and. whatnot just because there was nothing. else to. do he come up and he's like I told you. you wouldn't make it I told you you'd be. in group engineer the whole time. painting parking signs and whatnot I. said well you did say that sorry major. but you're wrong I did make it and I'm. only doing this until I leave here and I. think I left in like a week and a half.

packed up went to selection and uh they. were coming back and when they landed. they were like hey who are you and I'm. like don't worry about it out the door. man where'd you go I was like in second. B time man I ended up spending all your. you know your funds for the year end by. the way and I bought you a bunch of [ __ ]. but I got to go they're like hey you. know the end of year funds you got to. spend or you lose it they dumped that in. my lap so I just bought a bunch of. computers for those guys I had no idea. what to buy you know yeah that was. nobody there so I just spent all their. money and then left what was selection.

like sfas or unit unit you know I. compare the two the unit was all. individual it was all self-imposed. stress self-induced um they didn't talk. to you you know you get all your. instructions from the chalkboard the. only thing they would talk to you about. was take your instructions from the. chalkboard or do you need to see a medic. it was one of those things like no and. I'll go see the the. chalkboard and you know they treat you. fair they treat you right they feed you.

well they teach you everything you could. need to know you could go to selection. and not know anything not know what the. boots to buy not know how to pack a ruck. sack we literally teach everything you. need to know how to read a map from one. over the world all the way down to you. know a one meter grid Zone you know and. uh now that's a class just a with your. head right it's like a sixh hour class. that you you have to memorize to teach. every class has to be memorized and. taught exactly as. memorized and so whoever gets that class.

the one over the world it's just we know. that's the nightmare guy he's going to. study for two months to give that thing. um verbatim and word for word you have. to practice in front of the the. selection s major before the students. come and that's that's a. nightmare but selection was just an. individual assessment of your stress and. your decision-making while under stress. and L naav is one of those under time is. one of those things that creates stress. on you you know you know that. competition against yourself against the. clock when you don't know the time.

standards it's just your next RV is your. next RV is and you think you got it down. you're like yesterday was two today was. three tomorrow be four and then. tomorrow's five and you're like oh it. throws you off you get to the fourth one. you're like that it's a fifth one oh a. sixth one you're like and they throw you. off you know and they just keep adding. weight they keep adding. distances and you just keep dropping. people and you don't know who you drop. you know when you move into selection. from admin where there's an admin phase. an instructional phase and. then the uh the field phase the stress.

phase and instructional phases. instructors are talking to you they're. taking you around showing you land nav. this is a Hilltop that's a saddle here's. how you do resection. intersection and everything and you're. walking they're giving you tips they're. showing you you drink water while you're. walking so you don't stop you know you. jog down Hills you walk uphill you rest. while walking just everything that you. could ever want to know about how to. walk up a mountain day after day after. day with 100 lb Ruck on your bag and. then when you get the meal with the.

steak and lobster that night you know. it's it's about to change you know and. and you get up the next morning and. issue you that orange rifle with no. sling on it saying if you lose this. rifle you're done you know and a lot of. guys would set it down on a tree plot. their map and take off because you. didn't have the rifle for the first two. and a half weeks as soon as you go to. selection here you go you get you. getting that that orange rifle that. doesn't do anything and so many people. just set it down kind of forgot habit. and take off where's all your equipment. you know what were your instructions.

about reporting into an RV you're like. what here's where I'm at here's where I. came from what were your. instructions pull them out and read them. all right you pull them out read them. report this and that here's how you do. it and report in with all your. equipment cuz where's your weapon your. face just explodes and you turn around. you have to go however many miles back. to go get your weapon before you can. check into that RV which digs into your. time which ends up cutting you out of. the out of the process y so it's just a.

additional weight additional miles each. day up until the long walk in the end. and it's at your heaviest weight at your. least amount of strength remaining and. you know you do the 40 mile. hike and then and then you go through. the process of the shrinks grilling you. and the board process before we get. there how long this is early on how how. long had Delta even been around by the. time you want to selection 70s. 77 I'll get murdered for this only about.

10 years maybe a little bit more. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and they still. do that today from what I understand. they do they haven't changed selection. since it started minus two things that I. know of they move the swim test to the. end of OTC because it's a learn. skill but the or originally put it into. selection because you have to cross. streams and one person had drowned.

Crossing streams so they either I don't. know if they added it then or it had. always been there but they kept it there. and then they realized well it's a. teachable skill so we'll we'll do it at. the end of OTC if you can't swim by the. end OTC then you're out and then they. removed one of the RV points that the. only difference was the elevation is all. the same but there's two different Lanes. sometimes and this Lane went up top of. the hill which I was in that lane when. you get to the top there's a guy in a. tuxed sitting at the table with a candle. opera and a steak dinner from the night. before playing opera.

music and you're like looking at like. okay okay is this the right place you. know am I here come on over you check in. you leave but the other the other lane. didn't see that they just had a regular. RV so they took that out saying it. wasn't fair it might have altered. something but they're always trying to. be fair they're always trying to remove. your excuses of why he didn't make it. you know if I'd have had or if I you. know try to remove all that take away. everybody's excuse and so whenever you. hear somebody not make selection they.

either quit or they were pulled for time. or or. injuries you hear all the stories of. well they took me but then I told them I. didn't want to do it I'm like oh did. they now after all that work you decided. after the fact you wanted to quit you. know yeah after they accepted you you. know chances are they didn't accept you. how many guys did you start selection. with roughly um probably 90 to 100 how. many made it my class I think.

maybe 16 maybe maybe they've had class. with one guy made it they've had classes. with one guy made it yeah they won't. take you unless you make it and one guy. made that class and of course he didn't. start OTC that you know that six-month. period he waited till the next six-month. period so he had to stick around the. unit for six months with nothing to do. but yeah they won't they don't fill a. number they don't fill a quota only if. you make the process and then you make. the board with the psychological. evaluations and then they tell you you.

know 18-month probation after OTC and. then they tell you selection's an. ongoing process yeah you're like oh. every day every day how many I mean 10. years into the roughly a decade it's the. unit's been around how I mean how many. guys had even cycled through or or what. was it what was the H you know I was OTC. 2 seven and they did two a year well. they do two a year did they do two a. year back in the day probably.

not um there's still guys around from. OTC one and uh you know it's talking. about the numbers the other day on a. little chat group it's like hey what. number I forgot my number and it's. always stuck with me just. 27 which means probably what 13 years. into the. organization but. uh yeah what was what was the question. about that what was it oh how many. people um I don't even know how many. operators were out there the command at. that or how many squadrons were at the. command at that specific time three yeah.

uh yeah and I think they just started up. the third one okay I don't know how long. before. that yeah I don't know how long that's. the squad I went to C Squadron but. that's the newest squadron at the. time so at the end of. selection you get this steak and lobster. dinner yeah we right in the middle of it. right before they send you to the woods. cuz you're in the barracks the whole. time yeah I didn't bring that up you're. in the barracks whole time then that. morning when you wake up you get your. new weight and they hand you that rifle.

um and you grab all your new maps they. drop you off that evening and you spend. the rest of the nights in the field and. they have three different base camps and. they mix people up all the time so you. think people were pulled or cut you. don't see your people that you've seen. before that gives you that good feeling. you just see new people every day you're. like oh some some must have quit or got. cut you know and it start it could bring. you down if you let it you know y. thinking oh he didn't make it well how. if he didn't make it I'll never make. make it. so I don't know if they do it to be good. or they do it to kind of mix it up mess.

with your head it's all I'm sure it's. all thought through but there's only a. few people that know those numbers that. know the timelines that know at any one. time there's only one or two people that. know that process and they don't ever. give it up you know I never knew it we. thought we had it you would figure it. out you'd be listening to the radio as. guys roll in and you're waiting to pick. them up in the truck and take them back. and you get to know these guys you know. over the over the month that you're with. them and uh we're all sitting around the. radio like all right Blue 32 is checking. in the RV and they're getting ready to. do the time standard if he's going to go.

to the base camp or to the barracks you. know which trucks he going in the go or. noo truck like this guy's definitely a. go he's been kicking ass the whole time. and he's a Tango Sierra time Stander. move him over to the other truck we're. like how's that possible you know then. guy he's a [ __ ] bag he hasn't made. anything on time Roger he's good to go. move him on so whatever that. accumulative time is or whatever it. works out in the end you know. interesting worked out in the end um. it's done pretty well over the years so. yeah seems like.

it so what what how did they let you. know that you did pass that you're going. to go to OTC you sit in front of a board. of all the s Majors all the commanders. all the shrinks unit Commander units are. major and then whoever else wants to sit. in the room to stare at you and you're. on in one chair in front of them on a. little stage they just go around the. room and Grill you and ask you questions. just you know what like to be Ino or. you're going on a mission and it's it's. a no fail Mission and you got a six-man.

team and you know on the way in one guy. freaks out you know what do you do you. know some guys like kill him and bury. him and continue with the mission other. guys like pull the mission you know. neither of which meet the. criteria so they're looking for that. thought process you know I'm like I. don't know I'd Mark a digit you know. leave a guy with him go continue the. mission if I met minimum force then come. back pick them up on the way out you. know like all you know whatever but not. all the other questions and then in the. end like all right step out the hall and. then they do their little mind melting. of he's a [ __ ] bag or he's good to go.

cuz I I've I've sat on those boards. three times now so I know the other side. then they call you back in you know. after whatever length of time it takes. and you sit back down in the chair and. then they start looking at you and see. what happens and I remember they told me. you know you're young you're very very. young and I remember some of the guys. telling me going through selection had. gone through it before hey don't worry. if they don't take you you know they'll. just tell you to go out and get more. maturity grow up or learn some more. stuff then come back and I'm like I'm. never coming back this I'm never doing. this again this is too hard I don't want.

to do it again so I was terrified I. would have to do it again and if you if. you make it they don't make you do it. all again right you do you know shorter. Road March and an evaluation still but I. didn't know that at the time I thought. I'm not repeating this this is Hell on. Earth he said you know but we think you. have what it takes we think you know. what it's like to be a leader and an. NCO I was like that sounds kind of good. you know but but you're so young you're. one of the one of the youngest we. brought in if we bring you in and I was. like this is it this is that and I.

started dying inside how old were you uh. n no 23 23. yeah and I just sat there and then one. of them like yeah but we think you have. what it takes so welcome to Delta I'm. like huh what I'm just sitting there and. one of the Ser ma us jump up we end up. becoming friends down the road he's like. goes come on man relax now you said you. were 12 brows are 12 Bravo too I'm like. huh it's certain Maj you know it's like. relax you're in you made it you know at. least for now and I was like oh my God.

send me back to the barracks and there's. like five people left maybe in the. barracks to go through cuz I was one of. the in guys and uh Bank of pay phones. you know and I'm like getting dialing. home you know I made it like what I made. it and hang up you know so you don't. give up too much you know I know they're. listening to all these phones right. whether they were or not no so we. ordered pizza we're like hey anybody. remember the maps that are close to us. you know there was like five of us left. in the barracks we got on the pay phone. and we started finding like on the maps. that we navigated with oh it's there's a.

town here yeah let's call that town and. find for pizza and we actually had pizza. deliver to the barracks which no one's. allowed to be down on that end there's. little road barriers that keep you from. driving down there so I just go past the. road barries and keep on coming we're. the last barracks on the end delivered a. couple pizzas to us but I'd already made. it so I didn't care about the other guys. what they thought but they were all in. so yeah and it was just one of. those wow what's in your life you know. and then uh I guess was your first. call my wife your wife yeah did she have.

any idea what Delta even was I don't. think she gave a [ __ ] anyway it was like. uhhuh okay you've been gone a lot you. know are you going to stop going to. schools now cuz I went to jump. school then I had to go to. PDC then sfas then the Q course and then. Advanced non-commission officer course. then language school then selection then. had another 6 months ahead of me yeah. you she's like like. great great are you home now and I'm. like sure for 6 months I'll be in school.

I'll be home every night it's not true. it wasn't true at all yeah and so that. just kept going you know but it was. uh I should have learned then it one of. those fleeting moments of that I did it. man oh my God and the next day it's like. well what now what no big deal right. it's everything passes so. fast what we're going to take a break. here in in a second but um I just have. one question and that is during your.

interview. process what. was what questions stuck out to you the. most if you remember. them it was the one about leaving. someone behind if you had a team and you. had a no film Mission you had to do the. mission it was it was I ragged my brain. I was like there's there's probably no. answer to this one there's no good. answer and so I just took the Middle. Road like I can't die all in here I. certainly didn't think about burying the. body kill him a burying the body you. know like he was had a stress freak out.

is what it was you know he freaks out. he's just mentally unstable all of a. sudden MH it's funny that they I forgot. about that now doing what I do that's. weird and I just thought well I have to. leave them there with one other person. and if the minimum force was four if if. if they didn't give you all that. information I'd go complete the mission. and come back and pick them up on the. way out which is bad tactics to exit the. way you came in anyway but seemed to. work it wasn't it wasn't as harsh as. burying the dude but I mean that's the. one I remember you know that one and um.

tell me your hardest n story cuz a lot. of guys go through there from the. Rangers or SF they haven't been leaders. yet really you know they've been coming. up on a team but it's a while to be a. leader on one of those you know in one. of those organizations I came from the. regular army straight so I'd already. been a a squad leader you know and I and. uh I had to deal with families I had to. deal with issues and so my my story to. him was you know what was your hardest. Ino. moment and the hardest thing to deal. with and I thought about I was like it's.

families cuz they don't get what's going. on if the if the husband doesn't tell. them you know they come in and yell at. me as their leader and I have to deal. with this wife who's angry screaming at. me about her husband I'm like I'm. marriage counselor now I don't even know. what I'm doing you know and then I'd go. talk to the dude like keep your wife. from coming into work man I don't want. to deal with this [ __ ] you know and or. go home and fix this [ __ ] man I don't. want to I don't want to deal with that. ever again you know it was a terrifying. moment for me me and um and she was a. big girl too. and I I told that story and they were.

like all right and I think that's what. gave them that we think you have what it. takes to be an NCO I think you get it. cuz maybe a lot of guys didn't get it. NCO is I'm in charge of all these other. dudes and I'm like yeah the hardest. thing I dealt with was was a spouse and. she was angry you know and I I don't. know what to do with her I can't order. her to shut up you know I was like I. just had to sit there and listen y yeah. so I think that was one of the you know. I remember that one too that they had. asked me that one well thanks for. sharing that let's take a.

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to get your free kit today just remember. performance may vary and always consult. with a financial professional before. making any investment. decisions all right Tom so you made it. through selection you're getting ready. to class up and go to OTC correct yes. what what is the how long does it take. between finishing selection and class up. for OTC be about a month and a half.

maybe maybe two months I think I might. have gotten there. early I think I got there a month and a. half I wanted to get out of fifth group. I had to get out quick. um and I was there a bit early before. they started and I ended up they had the. memorial Court they were changing and. altering that landscape coming in there. so I ended up raking a lot of the. memorial court and building up some of. the BMS out of now so I was I was pretty. good I got to do. that early on but um I just took me back.

to being a Mor Court later. bit yeah early on and it was uh yes so I. think normally two months is that is. that that break CU you do it spring and. fall for selection so the weather's. similar oh okay and what I learned for. all you listeners out there that want to. do this what I learned at least what I. learned cuz I've heard people love the. fall I love the spring more right it's. getting warmer there might be snow on. the ground but you don't go to the field. till the end of selection so the chances.

of it being are less and less and less. there's no leaves on the trees so you. can see the terrain a lot further away. and you can read your map better you. know with terrain Association we in the. fall it might go into snow when you're. in the field or at least crappy cold. weather there still all the leaves on. the. trees and other other than the ones that. are falling you know so you can't see. the train and then all the leaves that. have fell cover up all the logs and. rocks that you twist your ankles on so H. spring is a bit wetter you know but I. just I just used to walk and think H.

time to change the water in the boots. and splash through another trail that. was a creek actually you know that 8. Mile Long Trail that was an 8 Mile Long. Creek just every now the time to change. the water in the boots cuz it just. doesn't matter anymore man you know let. just keep. walking but I determine the spring was. the best time to go just for visual. seeing the terrain really yeah what uh. what was the anticipation like for you. were you confident going into o OTC were.

you I was getting there yeah I had a lot. of self-doubts but I'd made a couple. selections I'd gone through a couple. courses. overseas I was terrified you of the. unknown I didn't know what to expect I. thought I'd be judged harshly um it'd be. too hard I wouldn't make it I'd fail but. I just kept going and they ease into it. pretty well so I mean they do it pretty. pry well and and you're taught by other. operators and there's 16 of you yeah and. we're broken into four teams um and Bob.

was on my team um Bob porus yeah was on. the team no [ __ ] you guys were in. together yeah that's awesome will white. and. uh. God I think Danny Nicholls um was our. foran. team yeah it just starts out pretty. pretty chill um you little briefings on. how to dress and what to wear and you. know not look like an idiot from an old. 1970s book they needed to change so you.

didn't look like an idiot when you put. on those clothes um but you know it's. that generational change guys up there. in the baby blue suit trying to tell you. how to dress and with dress for success. book and stuff you know and then I'm. like but you're in a baby blue suit man. you know I thought that went out in the. 60s or 70s so we go buy our own stuff. but and they ease into brm basic rifle. Marksmanship you know and and just. starts all over like like selection you. might be the best shooter in the world. you know but they start back at the. basics cuz that's how you become a good. shooter right doing the basics well so.

guys you thought they were great they. brought everybody back down too pull the. trigger laying down on the prone in the. bag you know put a penny on your front. sights back in the day and pull the. trigger the penny falls off you suck I'm. like man I did this in basic man you. know so it starts off slow and you feel. confident doing things and then it ramps. up you know you pick up but yeah the. anticipation was pretty cocky in. selection um because I felt. good I didn't get lost I felt good and.

one day I got lost um it terrified me I. took off running the whole time you. luckily I ran in the right direction um. but seriously lucky it was I got. terrified you know you going down a. finger and then you end up down this. finger and you make it fit you make it. fit now you're two miles away from your. RV and I'm like oh my God I'm running. out of time took off running terrified. but made it um so I was pretty conf. I used to go into RVs um once I see the. RV truck I'm like all stop I pull out. comb and I'd comb my hair dry my face.

and I'd go storming in even though I was. a miserable wreck outside the RV and I'd. go storming in here's where I came from. here's where I'm at all right your next. RV is on the hood of the truck plot it. come back here's where I'm at here's. where I'm going have a good one I take. off drink a cup of water out of their. little thing and take off in the middle. you know off into the wood line and fall. down go where the am I and where am I. going man I have no idea half the time I. take off in the wrong direction and then. I was tooo embarrassed to cut back to. the RV because you know when I was an. instructor I'd see someone take off in.

the wrong direction I'd call in on the. radio hey blue 42 went off in the 180. and they're like oh God we're going to. be out here at 8:00 looking for him so I. would run all the way around the RV to. go back in the right direction so I'd. get to the next RV and I'd stop comb my. hair and go back in and then um I didn't. know that that mattered I just didn't. want to look like disheveled and going. in and nasty for some. reason and I got to read my Cadre. comments years later um I didn't even. know they had them you got comments from.

selection in there can I see mine you. know this candidate knows all capital he. will make this course this candidate is. very cocky SLC confident and I like oh. my God I was a dick wasn't I you know. and it was all a fake it was all a show. to look like I knew what I was doing um. and it worked I guess well be damned but. yeah I was I was scared but I was too. cocky at the time. um I made selection again I know. everything and then you realize you. don't know [ __ ] but they teach it to you.

slow enough that it kind of breaks it to. you easily that you don't know anything. how are you treated well um you know. it's a personality thing because you get. people back from squadrons and it used. to be used to. be you know back in the day all people. would send the [ __ ] the people they. didn't really want or that weren't. working out maybe that send them to be. teachers and instructors at. places and then they the unit at least.

realized we're sending people that. people don't want to teach our new. people it's not going to work out so. they changed it to you can't send. anybody to be an instructor unless you. want them back as a leader One Step. higher makes a lot of sense so you know. it's a good guy going to selection but. nobody wanted to go to selection yeah so. that'd send you know here the guys that. aren't really not that they're bad right. just not as good good in that place like. when people don't make it in the unit or. they they end up leaving the unit for. whatever reason they don't they don't.

kick them out like you're horrible we. hate you it's like where else do you. want to go anywhere you're just not for. here but we'll send you anywhere else. that you love you know we'll take care. of. you so you know they ease you into. everything it's kind of professional the. way that they ease you into you don't. know [ __ ] you know and it takes me all. the way to when I finished OTC and I. made that board with the SAR Maus then. they pick the squad and I went in and I. met my team leader for the first time. was on his way out out the door to. Beirut for four. months I like hey here's Tom your new.

guy he looks at me good you got a lot to. learn and he turned left I was like ah. he hates me that's that's great he hates. me you know and I didn't see him for. four months but he was right had a lot. to learn well let's rewind before we get. there so you're you're in selection they. treat you pretty good what I mean the. unit had only been around for what did. we say about 13 years at this time time. so what kind of. experience are you what kind of.

experience do your superiors have your. instructors what have they been involved. in I considered. myself taught in the era. of maybe Vietnam bet vets is on you know. um I considered a little old school mp5s. grease guns. um my introduction to close quarterback. battles was uh okay open the door walk. into this room everybody take your point. after teaching on the chalkboard blah.

blah blah you know left right left right. opposite guy in front of you this is. your point of domination this is yours. you know opposite rooms see that. everything's 3 it's 360 but now here's. downrange now look at all these targets. and I looked at all the targets they all. had guns every one of them had guns in. their hands you guys see these you know. them yeah yeah okay let's go back out. and do it. live like you don't want to run through. this a couple times more you know walk. crowd walk around he's like no we're. going to run. load them up you know loaded up mp5s and. here we are chalk walk 100 miles hour.

you know I'm. like we load up open the door we all go. in crack cra cra cra cra shot every one. of them yeah I'm standing there you know. this is the best easy job ever that was. easy he comes in he goes how are your. shots I'm like two to the head man just. like on the Range you know how about. back here oh two right in the face man. awesome. why. what do you mean why why'd you shoot him. cuz. you're not one Target in the room had a.

pistol in his hand they changed every. Target out he goes That's one next one. you're done to everybody in the. room I almost start crying I was. like we're going to get kicked out of. here if I ever shoot a no shoot again. I'm done and they me it you were gone. and so that slows you down like that. last look you know that last I stopped. looking at faces so I can shoot somebody. in the face and I started looking at. hands so most my shots started going. down to where the hands were you know.

the bullets and you follow up with the. final shot but it's a big lesson to. learn but it was a transitional period. of I don't think the instructors knew. how to instruct as well go do. it okay how just do it you know like we. did because a lot of those guys had made. it up in in the beginning you know and. now they're instructors teaching and so. I called it the transitional period you. you know and then after when I went back. to instruct it was m4s and here's how. you seek QB and I'm going to walk you. through it and we're going to talk and.

the instruction was you know my opinion. so much better uh to teach you know and. I and I learned more about it by. teaching that's for sure but yeah that. transitional period of the old school. guys and the way they thought and me. being one of the newer guys coming in. one of the younger dudes even even in my. own OTC class I was one of the younger. guys and they're older been in the. Rangers for a bit so I'm I'm playing. ketchup I'm playing a lot of catchup on. I didn't spend my year shooting on the. Range because we didn't have money in. the regular army I didn't spend I didn't. know I mean I knew demo cuz I was a.

combat engineer and i' I'd done it in. the Q course as a 18 Charlie as well. which you know that made that easy. because I knew the math and that's when. everybody studying but now I'm in a. place where I'm not better because I. don't have any of that training of of. Marksmanship CQB I had no idea what that. was um all that all that special op. stuff I just didn't have a. clue so that was like drinking from fire. host but I loved it I was young it was. cool we got to go to cool places to. train you know learn how to drive from. professionals like man this is awesome I.

mean you retired out of there as a. command sergeant major correct yes and. so you've seen I mean you've seen a an. evolution of 20 years of development. couple what how does OTC. compare now to when you went through. when it has to be oh night and day my. last two years at the unit I went over. to range 37 which SF organization that.

teaches the Charlie elements it's it's. like a mini. OTC and one of the generals had wanted. to reconnect because we broke the. connections we were at War for a long. time obviously and so we had lost that. connection with range 37 where we draw a. lot of people from the Charlie you know. the Charlie companies of of the SF guys. they're the higher element highly higher. trained element you know that have gone. through range 37 training which is more. CB and more shooting and things like. that um at a smaller. scale we kept failing a lot of people um.

in CQB for safety doing things you know. different than we do it not I don't want. to say properly different than we do it. for safety reasons why we do. it so I went over there my last two. years to try to reconnect teach shooting. and CQB to up that that level of passing. on the other end um so I brought as much. as we knew from CQB I took that element. over to do some hits on the compound you. know like hey I can get us in I know. people you know so we go in we do some. hits on the compound but first there was. a squadron that had to run through the.

PW camp and do their hit first as as. Squadron training so I'm standing in the. P Tower in the middle of this thing you. know looking down and watching like hey. let's watch these dudes do the hit and. it probably been a year I'd been away. from that even though I was still ass. signed there and it's less than a mile. up the street I've been away from all. that for well as a s our major probably. a lot longer than that right and I. watched him go through and I was. terrified literally terrified at how. fast they were going through I had. forgotten how fast it can be going room.

to room to room to room and you're done. you know when you're doing students so. often and and seeing a different element. so it it kind of terrified me as to how. fast it was I'm like whoa everything. looks unsafe you know and so I realized. that Evolution um or I realized how fast. and dangerous it really was and why. those little things really mattered the. most and that that kind of made my job. even more important over there teaching. those little safety things those little. take that pause before you take that.

shot there's no reason you know to be in. a rush to die don't run into the room. you know how to pie things off better. how to do it you know just those little. things to make you think that. differently um I mean do you have a lot. of with the things that you've been. involved in I mean you. have I don't want to say manipulated but. you have molded the unit into what it is. today by all the lessons learned and and. and everything that you've been through. I mean there has to be a tremendous.

sense of. Pride that you had that much input. whether you want to believe that or not. I was I was to say I don't know I don't. know um yeah you know I when I left. there I didn't. feel good you know I didn't feel like. I'd done that much you know and I I. think we look at the unit like the unit. gives you more than you ever give it you. know I I thought that early on and I. looked back I'm like no that unit took. everything I had. literally but then I gave it everything.

I had really that's that's the honest. truth I gave it everything I had so it. wasn't that the unit took it I willingly. handed my life over over and over again. um to be. there I I don't I don't know that I ever. thought that I changed anything other. than by our actions like in Somalia rewr. the book on Urban. Warfare why I don't think we were. designed to do that right we weren't we. got caught and stuck and so we didn't. really. know we hadn't practiced how to dominate.

a corner Urban Warfare we just did took. what we took stopped where we had. wounded. um so big events like that um the. helicopters hovering overhead and. getting shot down and then I saw it. being. repeated 15 years later um in Iraq it's. like you guys are forgetting these. lessons you know bring extra water never. leave your nods behind um don't Circle.

the Target and let everybody in town. know exactly where you're at you know. punch out and do something further out. call them back in only takes you know a. minute to get them back in or three. minutes is could be a long time Under. Fire but at least your helicopter still. flies you know um so learned a lot of. valuable lessons that I've tried to pass. on that I learned individually um but no. I never thought that I I did anything GR. Grand that ever changed the unit you. know. I I don't think I've considered that. well Grand or not Grand you know what I.

mean it's 20 years of evolution is I. mean you're part of it man yeah you know. it's like a career it's like a whole. military career in one and then I had. five extra years added on that but I was. done at 20 I literally was 19 I couldn't. wait to get out well we'll get there I. just I was just curious that question. popped in my head so so you get let's. wrap up selection you finish up. selection or I'm sorry not selection OTC. and what what happens at the end how do.

you know you made it uh you go through. like the uh you know the sear kind of. training that's the last thing you do. stick you in the Box for three or 4 days. you know treat you like [ __ ] and then. you come get you get rescued by a. squadron they bring you in in your rags. and and you know they're handing you. drinks and treating you like they just. rescued you from the enemy and they. bring you back in and repatriate you. with American flag and and. uh and then you're done and it was kind. of like that's it that's the end of it.

huh we're done we made it and then uh. then there's another board with all the. star Majors to decide if they want you. or not you know and they get to chat. with you about. life they get to read all your. evaluations and how well you did and. different things and then they argue. over who's going to get who personality. wise and then they asked me how do they. do it is it a draft Yeah I had a friend. in AO Squadron you know who needs what I. I knew I didn't know then I know later. now it's a draft like C Squadron needs. more people they get more pick um in.

what order who knows they'll fight that. out but when they asked me what Squadron. would you like to go. to I had to pause I'm like well there's. a sar major from every Squadron here. right now if I say one the other two are. going to hate. me my answer was well I don't really. have a particular Squadron I want to go. to but I do have friends in a squadron. so that be the only reason I pick a. squadron okay cool you're going to C. like all right. thanks why'd you ask me you already knew.

where I was going but you want to see. what I would say about it just another. little stressor but they're [ __ ] with. you by then you know you're kind of in. you're kind of part of a family that. they know where you are you know I. looked at them like you guys made it up. as you went through you were like OTC. one let's shoot today yeah you did a. good job you passed you know I'm like. you guys made it up you it's doing great. now that you've built it up but when you. went through it's like yeah we're all. done now we graduate let's go do. missions you know but once it. professionalized right and hey let's add.

this well let's add that you know and. then you know it grows right it always. grows and. so yeah it was one of those I don't want. to say was Squadron and I did and then. went to somewhere else I'm like I'm so. now you know but it was great C. Squadron was a great Squadron I don't. know that I'm glad I went to C Squad you. know they very similar to a of those. personalities what is the when I always. hear that there are different there's. different personalities to every. Squadron over there what can you. describe it yeah easily um a squadron is.

kind of a. chill Surfer Vibe if you will B Squadron. Rangers kill it you know you see. somebody walking from B Squadron down. they'll deny this eye contact half a. mile hallway all the way down till you. get close hey be Squadron go that's the. B Squadron wave I look away you know I. was like really it was just a joke and. then C Squadron was kind of like the. good time party Squadron we work.

hard and then the fourth Squad in which. I stood up was kind of like a mix of all. three which was hell on Earth right. trying to get three different types of. people to three different elements of. people to agree on the same [ __ ] do guys. um transfer back and forth from. squadrons at all or is it you go there. and you're pretty much there not really. by exception okay we've had a couple of. people switch like the fit wasn't right. you know and we're either going to get.

rid of you or I don't know you know. you're a good dude but the fit you know. like another s I'll take him like yeah. okay little transfer over and then they. do great you know um so if it's a. personality thing they might move you to. see because your skills are still there. okay now if you don't have those skills. this might be a good reason to just send. you on your way you know somewhere else. but it did didn't happen that often how. were you received when you went over to. see cautiously very cautiously like.

people look at you like you're going to. make it you know they're friendly like. my team leader you got a lot to learn by. and it was like oh my God you know but. that was him you know move fast forward. to Somaya asked him that question about. are we going to make it I don't know and. he leaves I'm like damn that that was a. perfect time for motivational speech you. know not just I don't know but that was. who he was uh but you know my 2 I and 3. I at the. time and then I I was the fourth guy.

right that was the size of the team four. and one took off so we had three and. that's that's what I spent my first. three or four months working with and. then we you know six months later you. get another dump from OTC and we got two. guys on that dump so we ended up having. six for a little bit but it's never been. really full teams have never really been. all the way. full CU it just uh it's hard to find. those people you know to fill those. teams that meet that Criterion we stick. with it long enough and and then don't.

up when you get in there I. mean do they consider. you when they can't consider you a. seasoned operator because you're not one. no they don't they don't like you they. don't let you do much um for 18 months. you're kind of monitored and trained and. then you come out of OTC thinking you. can kick ass like I'm the man I'm so. good now I'm G to show these new guys. what's up or you know show the Squadron. what's up you get there and they let's. go do some shooting and they're.

destroying this Target and you're like. slowly destroying the target they're. destroying like mirrors and [ __ ] riding. from horses not really but they're. they're very good and you're like oh my. gosh I do have a lot more to go and then. let's go do CQB and you're doing it very. like deliberate and slowly and they're. gone they're literally gone like keep up. man you're like it's a little dangerous. don't you think you know like no no no. it's not dangerous we know what we're. doing you know and and so they teach you. those skills along the way of no no.

longer instructed we're showing you now. and this is the way we do it and it's. got to be fast it's got to be perfect. it's got to be right right on time. so you drink it from a fire hose for. another 18 months and. then then they kind of all right all. right all right let's let's kick it up a. notch now you can probably go to schools. you can do other things like driving or. climbing or whatever your specialty. might be you you know it's a little bit. more you're trusted to go do that stuff. now versus we may end up kicking you out.

of here so we're not going to waste the. money on you you know so it's it's very. thought. through and I don't think that they do. it on purpose to take the pressure off. but the way they kind of ramp it up and. step it up makes it more easy than they. just drinking from that fir hose but it. always feels like you drinking from a. fire hose cuz you never feel good enough. yeah like every day you're like man I'll. never be like that guy you know and you. don't find out till 20 years later that. that guy thought the same thing about. you and you're like man why didn't you. say something on day one we could have.

felt better for 20 years you know so. it's uh it's one of those judgmental. places but you judge yourself you know. you just don't fit in you don't feel. like you're good enough ever cuz it's. always a Non-Stop Improvement because if. you're not improving then you're dying. and you're stagnant and you're. irrelevant so you always have to keep up. and improving so for 20 years you felt. you were behind the power curve always. even as a s major like how did I get. here these guys are stupid you know I.

snuck in somehow and now they're going. to find out I'm a phony and they're. going to kick me out you know it's just. uh every day was a fear swiping that. badge I hear I hear stories all the time. sh green oh my God open the door you. want to leave the Squadron swipe your. card green oh my God want to eat cow. swipe you get in oh my God it's green. you know and every now and then somebody. come to work and their stuff's red and. nothing opens up for them it's. like go see the SAR major you know it's.

it's one of those uh stressful daily. things of swiping your car not knowing. if it's going to turn green or red. that's how they let you know yeah well. that's a good way to let you know in the. morning you know when you show up back. at work and they had a long conversation. the night before about you or something. you swipe it it's red you're like I have. no access to anything at all anymore. and walk around and go in the front door. and see the star. major it's happened a couple times to.

people um throughout the you know. throughout the years going to the front. gate and it's red and they're like what. the you know obviously they probably. could figure it out they've done. something screwed up. recently who did you look up to when you. got to see is there anyone in. particular Matt Ryerson was a real big. influence on me he was a different team. and a different troop but he kind of. took me under his wing like hey you want. to go shooting at shooting competitions. I'm like no man I'm already good he goes.

yeah but shooting competitions adds the. stress the stress of beating somebody. else in the time plus you can win cool. [ __ ] I'm like oh okay so I go to. shooting competitions with him and uh. shoot under stress and everything and. and uh became pretty good friends that. way uh hanging out even though he was on. another team I think he was a team. leader on another team at the. time and he just kind of took me under. his wing team leader was gone for a. while. [Music]. um to be honest I think he was more. motivated you know and it kind of. grabbed me as a young energetic kid and.

just started showing me those things. that he did to improve his shooting and. to make his life at the unit better so. that kind of bonded us early on so I. looked up to him a lot is there any. particular reason before that that Drew. you to him before you guys started. shooting together he had a calm. demeanor a real Pleasant demeanor like a. father figure you know he was just one. of those. kind personalities that when you meet. him you know and you kind of attracted. to that that energy.

level and that was kind of how it felt. and then he started bringing up hey. let's just do some shooting competition. shooting on the weekends I'd bring all. my guys you should come too and I'm like. I don't know you know am I going to get. in trouble over here he's like no screw. those guys come on we're just shooting. you know so I'd go to matches with him. you know shooting a lot of weekends for. for years and I gave that up like too. much work what kind of experience did. cquad C Squadron have before you came.

in not a lot not a lot um you know A and. B had done things up up through the. years and C Squadron came. in I think they had some call outs but. didn't do much I can't tell you if they. were in Panama as C. Squadron cuz there's such a mix of guys. in the photos Su are C Su are a and I. think that they when they built C they. did the same thing when we built D you. pull some from. everywhere but I don't think there was a.

history of of doing much well what were. some of the what were some of the. operations that they may have been. involved in just Delta in. general up to that point any Regional. surveillance stuff um protection details. around the world in high threat areas. for ambassadors or generals um things. like that and then uh the smaller trips. you know down to different parts of the. world that that you take two or three. guys and go you know sort something out.

and figure it out and send back some. information and then kind of make a plan. off that or execute it yourself. but it was one of those times where. everybody's waiting for war you know um. kind of waiting to get it now did they. hunt. scuds yeah I think they started scut. hunt missile hunting in Iraq as well. and that was before my time but I think. that yeah I think that they were part of. that as well.

interesting so you get into SE Squadron. you're getting your 18 months through. you're. in what's the first. mission in. Somalia first team trip was a skiing. trip that was fun and then we started. rehearsing well yeah and then we did. some things early that year and then. and then rolled her into smia what kind. of things. um you know that [ __ ] I didn't want to.

talk about those kind of things yeah. that. year yeah and it was just uh it was. interesting stuff small team interesting. things. um like I think I talk about in the book. where you know down in uh down in Bogota. and went up to trace skus doing Regional. surveillance. stuff and and the only people that go to. Trac skas are drug dealers or da agents. you know and I didn't know that we took. a flight from bogat there three of us. left two back in bogat to do their. thing and when you land you're like oh.

my God this a horrible place to be it's. right on the equator too so I got fried. right cuz the hotel shuts down the air. conditioner about two every day CU it's. too much of a drain you know so I go out. by the pool if you're not doing of. course I got fried in like 10 minutes it. was horrible feeling but learn that. lesson don't lay out on the. equator and then we decided to go out. that night. like let's go out just drive to the. beach right which is not a beach it's a. river and uh there's a military. checkpoint on the way out of town drugs.

man I we I didn't consider it checkpoint. pulls us over I'm in the passenger seat. you know guys's driving one guy's in the. back they start yelling as what's you. know whatever in Spanish and drivers. talking to him he's reaching in for the. get out of jail free card you know and. the dude doesn't like it the guy on my. side doesn't like it starts putting his. his a G3 and shoves it inside of my my. face and just holds it there I'm like. hey you know Jim what you stop moving. man you know and then he sticks it in my. mouth and Jim pulls out this car and.

that's when I grabbed the barrel and. moved it like dude that's enough you. know and I was terrified and he pulls it. out and the guy starts screaming and we. drove. off I I I said let's turn around and go. back right now let's go back to the. hotel I don't want to go to the river. anymore man I I was stred doesn't sound. very fun anymore I was stressed out so. bad I just had a gun in my face in my. mouth and uh we made it back to the. hotel and we went to the bar and we're. talking to some people I like yeah we. tried to go down to the the beach and. they're like beach it's no beach it's a. river and only criminals go down there.

and shoot people every night we're like. I'm glad we didn't go to the beach you. know we didn't even make it out of town. it was just uh one of those terrifying. experiences but uh that was early that. year in 93 and then um yeah then we. started rehearsing for. Somalia and I know that different. different Squadron and a different. Ranger element was rehearsing up to. certain point then they hand it off cuz. their time's up and it didn't happen in. that time so we picked it up and started. rehearsing what was going on in Somali. at that time that they wanted you guys.

over there they were starving millions. of people with the food we'd given them. and they were using it as a weapon um. and taking it out and they had started. attacking convoys um I think some. Marines got attacked and it was like. okay that's enough I know pis had gotten. attacked and so I think it was when the. Marines got attacked um that we pulled. the trigger to go it's like it's time to. go you know early today my God today is. when we. went I remember when we pack I mean we. never knew when we're going to go we.

just kept rehearsing for it um and then. maybe a week out from deploying they're. like hey we're going as Task Force. Ranger what were you rehearsing for was. it was it a particular hit that you guys. were going to do no just general the a6s. would come in and strafe a Target and. then we' come in and land and assault. the Target and this is how we'll do it. we'll have a template so when you know. something comes up we all know we'll go. this corner this corner this you'll know. what helicopter you're going to be on. you'll know where that helicopter's. going to land that's all we need to know. you'll know what direction to run and. then you know what to do after that so.

we developed a template so everything. the planning process wouldn't have to. happen that once they got a Target hit. we could launch right away so if they so. in Somalia when they ended up getting an. Intel hit we would kit up load up. helicopters would fire up and we' sit. there and wait and then team leaders. would come out and scream some [ __ ] and. point and you don't hear them you're. like got it you land you're like what. what now what do we do now you know you. figure it out um but that we templated. we practiced the template we rehearsed.

that flying and then actually had a u ah. crash while we were going in he was. strafing he was went too low and hooked. his skit on a pine tree and. crashed and I remember we were the. closest Blackhawk and we were getting. ready rope and assault the Target and I. remember the crew chiefs like I look up. he smacks me on the back and I look up. you know cuz I'm number one on the door. and I look at at him he's like all I. heard was we're going to. crash like what he said it again we're. going to crash and I lean over hey we're.

going to crash and I laid back on my. side and tried to get dudes out of the. door you know he's like go go go and I'm. like oh we want me a rope before we. crash so I'm the first guy down the rope. and then other guys come down and he's. pointing it's that way and I'm like oh. we've had a crash there's another crash. that makes a lot more sense and we took. off running you know in that direction. of the of the heat and that he was. pointing and I came up and that little. bird was on fire Pilots are trying to. drag themselves out my 2ic used to be a. crew chief on a Blackhawk so immediately.

you know the whole front's broken off. and he immediately ran up and the pilots. are dragging themselves out of the way. we pulled them out of the way he grabs a. fire extinguisher and tries to put out. the engines because it's still running. the Jet's still running it's catching. the pine needles on fire and it's. starting to spread I'm like got to drag. the pilots further and he throws ends up. throwing dirt in the intake and and it. shuts the engine down and uh cuz we. trying to pull the engine cut but it. broken off the whole front had broken. off so we finished the day training and. then took those guys back and got them. out and then uh then we practiced a down.

Hilo one time thank goodness because of. that and just rehearsing different. missions vehicle interdictions and. things like that and then then it came. up to like a week before they notified. us um I think they knew something like. hey if we deploy it's part of Tas force. rangers everybody has to go out and get. haircuts they have to look like. Rangers so when it finally happened you. know everybody finishes up their. haircuts we show up at work we start to. take off and you you can tell the. difference between the Rangers who have. high and tights with tan heads and you. you have guys that used to have hair you.

got White Stripes Pure White Stripes you. know um it's kind of like when you. you're training foreign countries and. they come in and you got all the the. studs with them and then you got three. pasty white dudes that work in a. basement somewhere and you're like oh I. get it you're the guy's collecting you. know you I mean you can tell the. difference between who they are and how. hard they work so when I saw the White. Stripes in her head that's a dead. giveaway anyway it's a brand new. haircut so what was the briefing like. when you guys were going.

over no news is good news tell your. families that no news is good news we. don't know when we're coming. back we don't know if we're going to do. anything but we want to go catch a deed. we want to stop you know and put. somebody else in charge or remove who's. in charge and see what happens and try. to bring them back to the negotiation. table can you tell everybody about a. yeah Muhammad farahan adid he was um you. know his son was a marine I did US. Marine he was over there and then he. went back over to take over yeah his.

so adid his son adid was a warlord smia. his son was a marine or came to the US. became a United States Marine and then. went back yep to Somalia to take his. dad's job correct. yeah he had gone into hiding when they. tried ac130 on his I think his family. compound or something he went into. hiding so when we went over there it was. like one of those I don't know you know.

how do we find the dude send people out. use other agencies try to find them it's. not like you fit in much over there you. know it's kind of particular look of. people and it's hard to fit in so. working that Network whoever was doing. that at the time I was just a young kid. all I want to do is run around and break. stuff and shoot things you know I didn't. pay attention to much at that time of my. life um The Briefing was [ __ ] you know. Muhammad adid was just a warlord that. had power at the time right I mean you. got to hold power over there so he had. his little minions around him and then.

around them and they they kept their. minions in in you know in check but. they're all hungry for power over there. because to them that means I'm on top I. get everything I want so and AED so AED. was the warlord in charge he was holding. all of the food coming from the US to. feed uh there's obviously a starvation. problem over there the good clans so. they're different Clans over there so. it's kind of a clan Warfare you know. deed was one clan um the hab habit gader. Clan was another maybe or he was in the.

Haba I barely remember the clan names. but I remember there was a one. line a road that when you cross that. road it was all bad when you cross the. road coming this way you had to be. careful because all the good people. lived over here you know and it wasn't. always easy to determine when you cross. that road so people always screaming you. know whatever February 24th Road or. whatever I don't I don't remember the. name of the road but it was that. distinct like like a moat in the. middle and uh this side was taking care. of their own people and feeding them and.

this side was starving to death and he. was trying to starve out the other clans. so he could own it. all and we didn't like that you know for. whatever reason we didn't like that when. he started attacking when he attacked. the Marine Convoy kind of Set It Off. well before we get to that I. mean before it all really kicked off. what were you guys doing over there were. you getting out in town were you getting. boots on the ground were you yeah we did. signature flights like twice a day just. to desensitize when we do a hit you know.

because every time we took off at night. headlights would be flashing on the. Hills like to let people know I mean. they were watching us so when we took. off it couldn't be just for hits so we. had to desensitize them so at least. twice a day at different times we pick. up and just fly the city drop in low. come back up pop around like we're doing. hits so when it was a real hit you know. they'd be like well maybe they're just. doing the same thing um we did a lot of. that we did did. five four or five hits up to the main. three October one um which were you know. combat to people on TV to me everybody.

else you know the good guys come in we. make some noise the bad guys lose we. come back high five tell stories it's. all great I mean that was good for four. missions um which were you know boring. boring missions of going after this. going the first one I think was a un. compound that was they were dirty like. was this a confidence Target that we hit. cuz it was former un guys and it was. almost a funny Target like. weird and then it was just dirty un. people that were taking equipment so.

somebody turned them in then the next. one was like I don't know some cop or. something then it moved up they were. they were moving up the ladder trying to. find who knew who and so I think the. fifth hit when we got um his money guy. Ada Muhammad. a that was our VI it turned into a VI. right in town um the sniper shot the. driver shot the the engine out also shot. the driver in the legs didn't really. know at the time they bailed ran into a. house we roped down um they roped down. and chased them in and then they called.

us in cuz we were still on a track and. we roped in um I know our team roped in. right in the middle of an intersection. immediately came under Fire from down. the street so me and another guy took. off running like close Ambush right. assault through was about 100 yards you. know we ended about halfway down that. Alleyway before we realized this is a. bad idea and jumped into a doorway and. uh I turn around the entire team's back. behind us behind a pile of. rocks like man we up now we're up here. so that was a firefight people kept.

feeding you know once we took care of. that that guy with that machine gun um. somebody else ran across the road. unarmed it was. like then they started shooting at us. with a machine gun we took care of that. again and somebody else run across the. road like they're unarmed you know. finally figured out their feeding the. machine gun and they know our Rules of. Engagement you know so we didn't let. that happen again what were the Rules of. Engagement. you can't shoot anybody without a weapon. you know and a threat uh so you know you. can't shoot anything that's not a threat. so if nobody has a weapon in their hand. they're not a threat okay but to me they.

were feeding the weapon right it's like. a cruser weapon so I just had to stop. that it kept happening and sooner or. later it was going to be us so we ended. up not letting people cross the street. anymore I me it was bold and ballsy. people I mean there was a lady and all. decked out in the black you know dress. and covered up in the face and gloves. and should be walking down the street. Street in the middle of firefight like. she's going to the market I'm like. what's this lady doing man I guess they. live in this [ __ ] you know and then she. points us out and they start shooting at.

us again I'm like okay we're going to. have to draw you know I can't let this. go on so I end up pulling out bean bag. rounds and chasing her off you know and. um they get called across the street to. pull guard and I got to pull guard on. Osman AO and then we took fire on that. house and then the the Blackhawk came in. and dropped one wheel on the on the roof. of the helicopter you know the parapet. people climbing up the tire and getting. out and that was my first um engagement. I was on the second floor we were the. last team out so we were pulling guard. for the team going before us climbing in. the helicopter I saw a guy across the.

street pop out with an AK and aim it up. and I'm like whoa okay and I took a. breath and it jammed on him so he was. like messing with it and I remember just. thinking okay you know Red Dot and. boom I either shot him right in the head. or whatever he disappeared in the room. his weapon flew out the window and I was. like I started screaming for my team. leader like hey Pete did you see that. Pete come here I Just sh shot this dude. he's like good job keep doing your job. and took off you know I was just who. Pete was and ended up moving to the roof.

to climb onto the helicopter and it was. one of those underf fire things I'm the. last guy off the roof climbing up the. wheels spinning it shouldn't be spinning. it should be locked you know I'm trying. to get up people are pulling me up by my. by my kit and pull me in and made it out. of that I'm like oh my God that was. crazy was that your first kill the guy. on the roof yeah so that was exciting. for you it was like I got to do my job. right it wasn't in Target I got to do my. job I stopped him from shooting somebody. it's like a perfect thing you know um.

any hesitation at all no no I took a. breath like I don't want to miss was my. hesitation not oh it's a human you know. and he's just doing what I'm doing right. he's fighting for what he thinks is. right it was just training right. training Red Dot pull the trigger I. didn't think about it I was excited when. I hit it like I actually did it and then. I got excited like hey come look at what. I did you know and it was across the. street he didn't see anything he's like. good job keep doing your. job okay I guess that was boring you.

know I don't. know and I you. know I was still high-fiving that [ __ ]. you know I was still still high-fiving. that stuff there was uh more dead people. on that one you know the bad. guys I don't think we even had any. wounded on that one still um maybe a. ranger had gotten hit in a. somewhere else you know pulling pulling. uh outer. security but then I thought oh that's. combat you know that was combat that was.

crazy I didn't know what was happening I. know where I was getting shot from it. was all just you could die in a second. you know you I have no. idea and so that was my vision of combat. you know and then our our next and last. hit was 3 October. well I'd like uh you to. describe I mean a lot of us have not. been over over there I've not been over. there what is it I mean what was it how. many people were starving were they just. starving in the streets I mean I've. heard stories about North Korea 300,000.

maybe 300,000 people starving to death. were there and he kept attacking food uh. dirt Sandy dirt. roads I mean they had the Olympic Hotel. they had the Olympics there before so it. was in Decline cactuses growing around. all of the houses just randomly growing. you know you'd bump into those it was a. nightmare just [ __ ] in the streets you. know it just horrible every every. helicopter landing was a brown.

out every house you know barely had. water in it or no power it was just it. was I I don't know who would want to be. in charge of that place you know the. airport wasn't running obviously um. other than what we fixed. up and I don't remember seeing much. actually working over there this. certainly no government I don't I mean. locals probably knew where to go and. stay I mean the B market was a big black. market of weapons and and things so and. that's actually where we did our last.

hit. but I I it was a shitty existence you. know it was one of. those I'd never seen anything like that. before people that poor still living in. um center block or mud and rock homes. you know which can withstand RPGs by the. way but they uh very. simple very poor living um but some of. them were pretty happy some of them. lined up on the fence tried to sell. their stuff through the fence you know.

to the Americans and whatnot guys go out. there and buy some Trinkets and. whatnot they weren't horrible all. horrible people you know but I didn't. learn that back then to me they were all. horrible even the Porta guy who sucked. out our Porta I'm like watching him. watch that dude you know he's collecting. on. us I just didn't trust anybody you know. because they were the enemy you know. when you're hey we're going to Somalia. they're the enemy okay all Somalians are. the enemy then right I didn't put that. you know away till. later to we later but it was it was a.

filthy nasty unkempt place to. be well before we head into 3 October. let's take another quick break yeah next. on the Shawn Ryan show this is going to. be your last interview on madisha and. what happened in. Somalia. [Music]. what hurts me the.

most about the trash. bags talking to one of his spouses whose. body parts were in that trash. bag and she can't use trash. [Music]. bags this past weekend we all reacted. with anger and horror as an armed Somali. gang desecrated the bodies of our. American soldiers and displayed a. captured American.

pilot remember getting nervous but still. like we're going to be home for dinner. right you know just joking around and. then another RPG and I remember looking. up and seeing it hit the helicopter the. tail of the helicopter you saw it hit. yeah and it just started Auto rotating. I'm like oh man no no no you know these. tragic events raise hard questions about. our effort in. [Music]. Somali hey everybody I'm Shawn Ryan.

click here to subscribe to the Sha Ryan. Show YouTube channel for the hottest and. most compelling interviews that you will. not see anywhere else I've also made a. playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find you can. find that right. here.