Tim Parlatore - Unpacking the Trump Indictments | SRS #89

previously on the Shawn Ryan. [Music]. Show and you know you can't let that. happen that's that's a big risk to you. and to Ryan your lawyer that's a big. risk but they are shredding ballot in my. opinion based on what I've heard and. they are removing. Machinery uh and they're moving it as. fast as they can so look all I want to. do is this I just want to find.

11,780 votes which is one more than we. have you can't just listen to excerpts. from the call you have to listen to the. entirety of the call the entire theory. of the case comes down. to did he. knowingly push false claims of election. fraud to try to overturn you know the. will of the people and install himself. wrong y as president for a second.

[Music]. [Music]. time get away from the Trump Biden you. know Division I think that a lot of. people who who who who.

who who can see past you know the the. the the candidates I mean this is this. is this is the future of our country. yeah you know and that is what I most me. personally that's what I'm most. concerned about is is this going to set. the. president from here on out to to B you. know to polit politically persecute your. opponent and and that's a big fear that.

I have you know and and and then I think. a lot of people share this fear yeah. it's real I mean it's something that um. that I saw in in my own career um not. just this case but you know I started my. career in New York City uh doing. criminal defense doing in the beginning. mostly State work uh but then. transitioning to primarily. Federal and um Believe It or Not the. Only camp aign that I've ever been.

involved in was when uh Morgan thaw was. going to retire as the Manhattan. district attorney uh after you know 40. some years in the. position and I actively participated in. s Vance's. campaign and I thought that he was. really going to fix the system because. he came in with all these wonderful. campaign promises about how he was going. to do Discovery differently how he was. going to evaluate you know plea deals. differently how he was going to do all.

these things that were actually going to. improve the fairness of the. system and it and he won and I and I. went to the party yeah the victory. party. where you his his victory was only a few. hours old before he. said I'm not going to do that Discovery. policy.

and I have tried cases against that. office that. were based not upon what is going to. keep New Yorkers safe but based upon you. know what is going to be the best. headlines and the best campaign things. for C Vance's. reelection. so I personally am not a big fan.

of elected laww enforcement officials. period I have the same problem with a. lot of. sheriffs and don't get me wrong there. are some phenomenal sheriffs out there. I'm not saying this as a general rule. but being an elected law enforcement. official is an invitation to. abuse it's an invitation to asking for. political donations and if you don't.

give the right donations you know what. what's you know are you going to get. extra parking tickets and things like. that you know judges in New York are. elected I had a case in a different. County from where I was normally it was. one of the upstate counties. Westchester and even though I was not. involved in any of this politics stuff. at. all had this case before this judge who. is in my opinion not giving the best.

rulings and then all of a sudden I got a. campaign solicitation from the. judge from from somebody on the judge's. behalf asking me to donate money to the. judge that I'm appearing in front. of and I sat there as I'm reading this. you know my my blood went cold of like. am I actually being asked to give money.

to the judge in order for her to start. giving good rulings in this case wow. wow that is. scary I mean I. didn't I didn't donate to. her but you a big part of me sat there. and read that and said you know what if. this was all Anonymous like if there. wasn't this whole you know campaign. donor list I wouldn't donate to her. anyway because she doesn't understand.

the rules she's making rulings that are. not correct. wow how often do you think this happens. in the country every. day bad every day and that's. why putting. money money in. politics causes. abuse politics and law enforcement. causes abuse money in politics and law. enforcement is a.

disaster that's where you have people. like Fanny Willis Leticia James. fundraising asking for. money on the idea that if you elect me I. will get Donald. Trump I am going to use your taxpayer. dollars to take out our political. rival as opposed to spending those. taxpayer dollars on stopping rape and.

murder in our. streets and they get. elected yeah can we talk about um before. we leave the Georgia case can we talk. about why is Rudy Giuliani elected or. I'm I'm sorry. indicted that to me is the biggest. tragedy of this whole. thing um you know Rudy Giuliani.

Ru is America's mayor he was well-loved. I don't like what they're doing to him. now you know was everything. done right in the election uh you know. investigation and litigation no do I. agree with everything that they did not. NE necessarily did some did they make.

some mistakes yes they. did should he be losing his law license. should he be losing all of his life. savings should he be now potentially. going to. jail she wants a life she wants a jail. sentence out of Rudy Giuliani that. exceeds his life. expectancy.

she wants him to die in a Georgia jail. cell that's not right that's not. Justice why is he in that. case to me people are angry at him. because he was the face of the team that. was pushing these election frog. claims and because they don't like that. and what it led to they they want to. punish people that they're angry.

with and so that's why in my opinion rud. is in that. situation last night at. dinner you had brought up that he has. past his. prime can you dig into that you know. I I'm. concerned.

[Music]. um I I like Rudy gilani a lot um. and I think. that um it is obvious that. anybody um you as they continue on in. their career eventually they you know. lose a few steps mhm um is that the. cause of what happened here. I don't know um not necessarily I think.

that quite frankly the cause of a lot of. this stuff is um lack of. resources I'll give you an example in a. minute. but lack of. resources. leads to an inability to fully. investigate. claims which increases the risk that you. present. claims that are not fully vetted.

I my personal opinion I would have much. preferred for Rudy Giuliani be to be. America's mayor. retired I would much prefer for him to. be writing books giving. speeches being comfortable in the Legacy. that he built through what he did in New. York New York.

City. um and it's kind of an extreme example. but it somewhat reminds me of Jim. Stockdale you. know I I was a big fan of Ross perau I. thought he did a lot of uh very good. things certainly did a lot of great. things in his you know in his business. uh and taking care of his. people uh I thought that he brought a. lot of interesting ideas to the election.

when he ran as a third party candidate. the one thing that I completely disagree. with Ros perau on was naming Jim. Stockdale as his running. mate. because Stockdale is a. hero you know he was Medal of Honor. recipient senior prisoner of war in. Vietnam and by the time that they got to. the debates he was unfortunately Ely.

passed his. Prime and now if I walk down the street. and I ask people you know just grab some. random. person do you know who Jim Stockdale is. yeah I remember him he was the guy in. the vice presidential debate that got. all disoriented and started saying who. am I why am I. here you know there's there's an element. of where you want to. take your Heroes and allow them to be.

retired you had mentioned something that. he had done when he was in the the hanoy. Hilton. and I didn't know who this man was. before you spoke of him last night can. you can you elaborate on on that I want. to show you know the audience what this. man. did for this country mhm and how he will.

be. remembered so Admiral Stockdale uh then. I think he was a captain he was either. captain or Commander then um he was a. senior US service member in the Hanoi. Hilton he he was the leader he took care. of the other. prisoners um he kept them all together. and when the Vietnamese wanted to do a.

uh a propaganda. video and they wanted to present him in. this propaganda. video he beat his own face. in he he disfigured. himself to Rob them of the propaganda. [Music]. opportunity.

and he set the standard so that. everybody else would also stay. true as a. result the treatment. improved because they couldn't. allow their propaganda to be showing the. brutality and so what he did to himself. actually resulted in them throttling. back and it improved the conditions for. the American people.

ws and he was used past his prime yeah. and now he will be. remembered exactly for what you said. exactly so you know for for anybody. listening to this you know if you think. of Jim Stockdale as a VP candidate think. of him as as the admiral of the. p. and that's how Giuliani will be.

remembered. Giuliani I. fear runs a risk of potentially you know. dying in a jail. cell you know I I don't think that the. case against. him if fairly. heard in the appeals process I don't. think that it would be upheld so I do. think that he would you know be released. but the reality is I wouldn't want him.

you know being subjected to. that I mean the stress of going through. a a major criminal case like this is. something that will itself take years. off of your. life so now I feel very. strongly um about you know about the. inclusion of him. as a as a codefendant in this case what.

would the worst case scenario be in the. Georgia indictments for both Trump and. for. Giuliani jail sentences that exceed. their life expectancy for both of them. yeah yeah you got to remember. racketeering has major time associated. with it life sentences because. racketeering is. intended for the bosses of mafia.

families you a lot of the other lawyers. that are doing these cases you know. they've most of the lawyers that are in. these cases a lot of them are former. Federal prosecutors who've then gone out. on on the defense side and they become. uh defense attorneys although you know. they call themselves White Collar you. know defense attorneys um I think I told. you I I hate the term White Collar. because you know to me somebody said.

this years ago and it really stuck with. me white collar doesn't. exist white collar crime is a term that. was invented by former prosecutors that. would allow them to make money being. criminal defense attorneys without. somehow feeling. dirty but the reality is you know a lot. of white collar crime Bernie maid off. things like that you know they heard. just as many people. and you know whenever I'm around these.

people and they're like oh you know are. you a white collar lawyer I just look at. him and say I'm a red collar lawyer red. collar yeah white collar with a splash. of. blood you get these former Federal. prosecutors who have never really dealt. with defending a RICO. case you get these political lawyers. that are all about you know being party. insiders and all that kind of. stuffff. and really what this case.

requires. is the people that I started practicing. with the people that I learned how to. practice law. from which is the core group of New York. City criminal lawyers who were you know. the backbone of the John Gotti. defenses all of the big mob cases. ironically all of Rudy juliani's enemies. back when he was at the US attorney's.

office. and because the way that you look at an. organized crime case and the way that. you deconstruct a federal RICO case in. that scenario is exactly what they need. to be doing here you because I look at. it and I say you know one of the things. that Rico. requires is. continuity continuity means that it is. an organiz organization that is not for.

a very distinct purpose not for a single. event it's something that's going to. continue over the course of period of. time you know a drug cartel is going to. continue to sell drugs to kill people. commit murder Mayhem and all those. things a mafia family is going to. continue to have all of these you know. lone sharking gambling all of these. things a campaign that is trying to.

challenge the results of one. election has no continuity to it. whatsoever and the precedent that. they're trying to set in this case By. ignoring that continuity. requirement means that anytime that two. or more people get together and commit. two or more crimes to. together Fanny Willis says that's a RICO.

so if you and I decide you we're going. to go rob a bank okay we're going to. steal a gum we're going to steal a car. we're going to rob a. bank we're going to have three hours of. absolute Mayhem right. MH under Fanny Willis that's. racketeering it stretches the. definitions far beyond. what the legislature intended are you.

saying just the conversation alone is. rocketeering in theory in theory to well. more than the conversation you can't. just have a conversation you have to. have an overact INF furtherance of it so. you have to actually start the planning. you have to you know actually go do. something you know we need we need at. least need to steal the car um we. haven't committed racketeering on camera. yet um but but under her.

theory that. 3-hour episode is. racketeering and that's the reason why I. believe that this case should be. considered by a. federal appell court or District Court. to. say you are not in accordance with the. Supreme Court case law on the continuity. requirement of Rico. and once you rip out the.

continuity then this whole building that. she's built here you rip out continuity. now Rico goes. away now her ability to touch what's. happened in Coffee County goes away what. happened in the State House goes away. what happened in Pennsylvania goes away. and all she's left with is a very tiny. case because hardly anything happened. in fton.

County. interesting how do you think George is. going to play. out I think that they're going to keep. trying to push for the speedy trial I. think the Judge is smart enough to. realize that's not going to happen I. think that people are going to start to. file motions to dismiss on some of the. things that I've I've mentioned here I. think he's going to get bogged down in. motion practice I think think. that ultimately especially when you're.

talking about a 4 to 8 month long trial. and potentially a few extra months for. jury selection I think it's going to get. pushed down past the election and I. think it's one of those things where. it's a big bang in the. beginning and my prediction it's going. to end in more of a. fizzle am I missing anything when it. comes to the Georgia. case no I mean that's the big thing. there is is that it.

is like the DC. case but structurally less. sound and that's that's one of the. problems with you know as lawyers you. always try not to. overstep and you know because if you if. you have a legitimate claim and you try. to inflate it into. something that it's not. you risk losing the whole thing whereas.

you would have maintained your. credibility by just coming in with. whatever that legitimate claim. was you know if they have issues with. how certain things were done in fton. County go with. that but I think that really what you're. going to see here is that Fanny Willis. because she is focused. on her own. election and. I. suspect the presidential election.

because she's focused on political. factors as opposed to Legal. factors I think that that's where this. is going to. fail well thank you for diving into. Georgia let's take a break when we get. back we'll get into the classified. document indictments at uh down in. Florida all. right when I first started this whole. podcasting thing an online store was.

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Shan this show is sponsored by better. help how many of you out there are. looking forward to the upcoming holiday. season it's right around the corner or. are some of you dreading the upcoming. holiday season maybe a struggle to be. upbeat maybe a struggle to be cheerful. look a lot of us let the holiday stress. get to us around this time of year and. believe it or not it is not that. uncommon this time of year can be a lot. and it's natural to feel some type of.

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investigation into Trump's retention of. classified documents after his. presidency June 2022 a. lawyer avowed that Trump had turned over. all classified records but 2 months. later the FBI searched Mar Lago and. seized 102 documents with classified. markings Trump pleaded not guilty on. June 13th. 2023 27th of July 2023 three superseding. indictment adding three new felony.

charges new indictments include. allegations that. Trump NAA and day olivaria sought to. destroy security camera footage of. marago after investigations tried to. obtain the. footage trial scheduled for May 20th. 2024 in Florida charges 40 felony. charges 32 felony counts of willful. retention of National Defense. information and violation of the. Espionage Act six felony accounts of.

obstruction related crimes two felony. accounts of false statements the. Espionage Act makes it a crime to retain. records containing sensitive National. Security. information first question mhm why would. they have deleted the security footage. they didn't they didn't they. didn't that that's that was one of those. kind of surpris ing uh charges there.

because doj subpoenaed the. footage and they turned it all. over are you serious I am how was how. was he. being they're. claiming their claim is that some people. had a. discussion about deleting footage and. some of the employees said you know can. we delete the.

footage and the answer was no you can't. delete delete the. footage and that's the. charge so no no footage was. deleted so the Char I'm sorry let's yeah. the charge is that they had a discussion. about deleting the footage it's not that. they actually deleted the footage. correct there was a discussion correct. and if you read the indictment even. though it charges president Trump as. being part of it they're actually.

claiming that there was a conversation. between two other people and one of them. said the boss would like the footage. deleted but but nobody' actually say. well that he actually said that and. here's one of the things that I learned. in representing. him when I'm told the boss would. like it doesn't always mean that the. boss would like yeah often times it.

means I'm just using his. name to make you do what I want you to. do I I don't understand how this is a. crime I mean some of this stuff just. seems like an initial reaction yeah you. know I mean so yeah the the Florida case. is is weird it's it's different from all. the. others. um so the Florida case was investigated. by the National Security division which.

is not where you get your top criminal. lawyers at all uh in fact most of the. people on this case have no clue what. they're doing in a courtroom okay the. guy in charge uh guy by the name of Jay. brat in my opinion based on my. observations of him I think that he is a. completely. unethical person who should not be.

anywhere near government. service if you look at the way that this. case was investigated he wanted to do a. search warrant from the beginning before. having any information about there being. any potential improper. conduct he has. throughout. lied to federal. judges in my. presence he has tried to do everything. he could to turn this into a criminal.

case when it didn't need to be and based. on my. experience this is the type of case that. was handled differently from the. beginning in order to create a criminal. case than how it is handled with anybody. else in a similar circumstance because. ultimately if you have have a a spillage.

of classified. material what you should be doing is you. should be having the intelligence. Community working in administrative. investigation to locate and. contain all that classified information. then do an assessment of whether there's. been any. damage you don't turn that over to some. rabid doj attorney who thinks oh I can. use this to get Donald Trump and then.

let him go Hog Wild without any respect. to his own. ethics and so the manner in which this. case was approached from the beginning. was overly. antagonistic and designed to cause him. to dig in his heels and in the absence. of evidence create an appearance of. non-compliance. now everything that from the time period.

that I was involved in fits exactly what. I just. described yes there was a. subpoena yes there was a certification. didn't say that he turned over all. classified records what it said is we've. conducted a diligence search and all. responsive records are. enclosed let me say that again we. conducted a diligent search and all. responsive records are are enclosed it. doesn't say everything's been turned.

over it says we searched everything we. found here it. is they wanted more time to do the. search and doj refused to give them more. time to do the search they wanted you. know in later. searches we invited doj to come with. us really yes. did they no no when they wanted us to.

search Trump Tower. Bedminster we invited them send your FBI. agents with us to do the search they. refused it is and I believe that the. reason that they refused is because we. were trying to show them that we had. nothing to. hide and if they had sent the FBI along. with us it would have given the. appearance of.

cooperation contrast this to the search. they did in. Delaware I I I don't. look I'm trying to collect my thoughts. here I mean from from the research I. done it seems like they are claiming. that there were nuclear codes in these. classified documents and and secrets to.

military weapons inside these documents. and. so we kind of already covered it but. what if if if there are nuclear codes in. in in information that is. compromising some of the top weapons. that the US military has in their. inventory then then why wouldn't the FBI. CIA whoever why would they not want to.

accompany you to recover those codes or. the information on those weapons they. they just left it up. to the legal team to rumage around. marago for for nuclear codes correct in. any other circumstance so first of all I. mean if you lose a weapon right a pistol. yeah in the military everything shuts. down until that is recovered correct. everything all operations all everything.

shuts down to find a pistol M and we. have nuclear codes supposedly that are. out there where are they coming up with. this if it's so nuclear codes I never. saw any evidence of that you know that. that to me is something that was just. told to the media to make it sound worse. MH um but you know here's what I did. see let's talk about how they got out. first because that that's that's.

important there's a big difference. between somebody. stealing classified information so that. they could put it on Wikileaks and they. can give it to Russia and they can you. know do all these other things with it. and what happened here because what. happened here. is the White. House has horrible document management. procedures now I didn't say the Trump.

White House I said the White. House in. general every. Administration they do not follow the. same standards that we followed in the. military they do not follow the same. standards that the intelligence. Community. follows they have documents outside of a. skiff on. desks moving. around you have you know there was that. picture of uh you know during the Obama. Administration where you have a room. full of reporters and Joe Biden is.

standing in the back with a classified. folder in his. hand they don't treat documents the same. way in the White House that they do in. the rest of the government and what that. results in is an. intermingling of classified and. unclassified. documents and at the end of every. Administration when they pack up. all of the documents the National.

Archives picks up straight from the. White. House and what the National Archives. does is it rents a facility in the city. where the future Presidential Library is. expected to be. built which also happens to be wherever. the president has decided to go move to. so you know Ronald Reagan leaves he. moves to. California National Archives gets a. facility in California near his house.

they put all of his documents. there they've done this presidential. records Act was signed into law by Jimmy. Carter it didn't apply to Jimmy Carter. it applied from to everybody from Ragan. forward so starting with Reagan every. single president they got a facility. where that President moved to and put. all the documents. there except for Obama they got a fac. fac in Chicago for him and then he. decided to stay in DC.

anyway um president Trump is the first. person that they said no we're not. getting any facility for him at. all and so what happened is when he left. office was it more chaotic than any. other turnover yeah it was a lot more. because of a whole bunch bunch of things. not the least of which being the. election.

contest also when you look from Reagan. forward how many one-term presidents do. you. have is that it George HW Bush was the. only person other than Trump subject to. the presidential records act who did not. have four years notice of the exact date. that he was going to be.

departing that's an interesting take so. really up until January 6th he believed. there's likelihood that he was going to. stay there so January 7th is when the. transition really. happens National Archives is not going. to get a facility down in Florida and so. all the documents get boxed up and they. all go to.

Florida there were you know the the. famous pictures of the boxes all you. know on the driveway outside the White. House being you know put into trucks. being moved by GSA General Services. administration US. government and the archivist is sitting. there saying yes that picture was very. disturbing because you know I realized. that those were you know National. Archives uh or Nara um which is National. Archives and Records Administration.

those are narrow records that are going. down to. Florida he didn't say anything at the. time had anybody asked president Trump. hey would you like us to you know hold. on to these and you know we'll put them. in a facility there he'd have been fine. with it but the reality is everything. got boxed up everything got moved down. there the first time since President. Carter. that a president has all the boxes moved. to his.

house and Nara. knew because they have essentially four. Decades of data on this that every. single. Administration the boxes are co-mingled. with classified. documents every single one we had had a. conversation also about what those class. classified documents actually look like. and I think it would.

be important for you to explain what. kind of classified documents were in. those boxes we're not talking about. nuclear codes we're talking about. briefings we're talking about I've gone. through the boxes I went to the I spent. a few days at the National Archives and. I went through all those boxes. myself which are a fascinating. archaological iCal dig into the. presidency by date and so you see on.

each date here are the DAT the. newspapers that he read that day um here. are you know his daily schedules here's. all the the phone messages that he. got here's the classified document and a. lot of those classified documents fit. with the schedule because you see on the. schedule you have a phone call this. afternoon with President you know. whoever of foreign. country and then right after that is you.

here's the briefing sheet classified. briefing sheet on all the questions we. would like you to ask this foreign. leader and I'll give you I'll give you. an example that everybody's. seen okay from the impeachment. proceeding when he had the phone call. with President zalinski of. Ukraine and Alexander vinman prepared. prepared for him the script of these are. the questions we'd like you to ask uh.

zalinski that script is. classified but the moment that you read. it on the phone to the president of the. Ukraine it's not a secret. anymore and you know in the impeachment. proceedings we went through all this. stuff because you know obviously vinman. was upset that he had gone off of his. script and you know asked other. questions but that document that's.

really what we're talking about here. that's the majority of what these you. know so-called classified documents are. it. schedules things that are um highly. classified at the. time tomorrow we're going to fly to. Afghanistan to have a surprise. Thanksgiving dinner with the. troops very classified really don't want. the Taliban and the al-Qaeda and. everybody to know that tomorrow the.

biggest juiciest Target in the world is. going to be flying right over there. airspace mhm but the moment that he. walks out into the mess hall with. hundreds of troops and a bunch of TV. cameras it ain't secret anymore yeah and. so that but but the the schedule is. still. marked classified correct and so these. are the type of classified documents. that they're recovering where did they. come up with the where did they come up.

with the nuclear codes is that just a. Flatout conspiracy as far as I can tell. that is a Flatout lie that was told to. the media to try and make things seem. much worse than they were so I have. another question you see all of these. counts. of. conspiracy charges of conspiracy uh for. the for for for for Trump and and his uh. and the other people that got indicted.

so couldn't they couldn't they flip the. script and Sue whoever leaked that with. conspiracy if it's not. true you don't know who did it though. that's the. problem well I mean if you would have to. make an investigation just like they're. making on right but ultimately. ultimately you have to convince a. journalist to give up his. Source I have a couple of strategies.

don't but. so that wouldn't work but you know one. of the things to remember here you talk. about how there's you know 40 counts or. something down there one one other. question I'm sorry I mean we're joking. around you would have to get a. journalist to give up his Source well if. he doesn't give up his Source then I C. then then couldn't you say it just came. from him. I mean because that's just passing the. buck because then that then then the.

source could say oh well I got it from. another source I mean it's either who. did you get the information from or it's. you I mean well what we're talking about. here is a defamation claim MH um civil. defamation claim and you know journalist. is not going to be liable for that if. that's what A source told them so you're. not going to be able to really get the. journalist unless you can show that they. acted with Rec. disregard for the. truth um so that you're not really going.

to have any leverage okay in that way um. and ultimately trying to get a. journalist to reveal their source as. part of a civil defamation. claim um it's just not going to happen. it's not going to happen so it's it it. is unfortunately one of the features of. these leak investigations that it just. you're never going to get there and even. there you know president. Trump has a major problem with filing.

any type of defamation claim to begin. with. because yes when you put out nuclear. codes that sounds really bad uhuh did it. change anybody's. mind did any Trump. supporters. say yeah it's okay he had classified. that whoa one of them is nuclear codes. okay well now I don't like anymore now. I'm going to vote for. Biden.

no it the country is so polarized. already at this point that I don't think. that President Trump could ever have a. viable defamation claim because anybody. who puts out knowingly false information. about him is just going to have the. people that hate. [Music]. him have you know more ammunition for or. why they hate him and the people that. like him are just going to say that's.

fake anyway so it's not going to change. anybody's opinion and that that is a. requirement really in a defamation. claims you have to it has to be. something that is damaging to your. reputation in a way that it changes. people's opinion of. you so I don't think that's going to get. anywhere okay but one interesting point. you know when you bring up the 40 counts. each each one of those counts is an. individual.

document so now go back and take a look. at it where they say that they found. hundreds of. documents the vast majority of them they. didn't. charge why is that because the vast. majority of them were over classified in. my opinion it's not about willful. retention of classified information is. about willful retention of National. Defense information meaning that the uh. this information if divulged would be. damaging to National Security and having.

a daily schedule in your house in. 2022 that says in 2019 we're going to. fly to. Afghanistan is not National Defense. information it may not have been. properly. Declassified but at present it shouldn't. be classified it should be Declassified. and so. classification has no bearing on this. case whatsoever classification is.

somebody's opinion as to whether. something constitutes National Defense. information MH and so if it's people. have been. acquitted for possessing top secret. documents that were over classified. people have been convicted for. possessing unclassified documents that. should have been. classified so classification doesn't. really matter but the vast majority of. those. documents they didn't. charge and I believe because the vast.

majority of those. documents didn't constitute National. Defense. information what do you think the. outcome of this is going to be I'll tell. you this is the one that probably. um I think poses the greatest threat to. him and specifically because of the. whole story of um of obstruction not the. leading of the video that's um that's. kind of silly but the the story about.

having Walt NADA move the boxes the. night before um Evan goes in to do the. search um that story when I read that in. the indictment that was not something. I'd ever heard before that was not. something that was consistent with. anything that I knew about during my. year of representing. him um if. true if backed by. evidence that's the.

count that I think he would have. difficulty overturning on an. appeal if. true the flip side of that is they're. claiming that they have video of Walt. moving all these. boxes they've put screenshots of. everything in there they have pictures. of the boxes sitting on the stage the. boxes sitting in the bathroom the boxes. sitting on the truck the box is sitting. in the. basement the single most damning photo.

that you could possibly have is pictures. of Walt moving 60 boxes the night before. you know time stamped you know late the. night before Evan corkin shows up to do. a. search that screenshots not in. there when they did their press. conference they didn't play that video. for anybody think about anytime you've. seen a prosecutor do a press conference. of we just arrested this bankrupt and. they're going to show you the video of. the bank robber you running out of the. bank and.

everything that. video would be the single most damning. piece of evidence they claim that they. have why haven't we seen. it do you think they're withholding or. do you think it's a flat out lie I don't. know that's the problem why would they. withhold I don't know this team the the. mara Lago. team of prosecutors they don't act like.

normal. prosecutors they don't act like normal. ethical strategic. prosecutors they did a whole bunch of. stuff throughout that whole case that we. would just sit there and scratch our. heads at and say are these people really. working for. doj like what how how do they not. understand basic. principles so I really don't.

know I really don't. know but that piece of the indictment to. me is is going to be the most damning. because ultimately the will for. retention they're going to have. difficulty showing whether it is. National Defense information they're. going to have difficulty showing that he. did willfully retain it um and. ultimately. it was brought there.

legally it. was this is an issue of document. management. procedures and had in in the first. instance If instead of somebody from doj. instead of sending you know J brat and. the Keystone Cops they had sent somebody. from the office of the Director of. National Intelligence to say say nar has. informed us that there may be a spillage. of classified documents we'd like to. work together to make sure that we you.

know protect you know our nation's. secrets and. everything if they had done that you. know what president Trump would have. done he was go ahead. please please he well help him. out but they didn't do that so that's. that's the problem. what is he facing.

there again that's you know worst case. scenario it's that one I think um I. didn't look up the time on those. um several. years from my understanding you had a. role in searching Trump Tower do would. you like to go into that sure. sure we did. um a lot of sub subsequent. searches and these were done at the.

request of doj uh they thought that. there were more documents out there and. that you know they had this theory that. you know he was you know playing a shell. game of moving documents back and forth. between Bedminster marago Trump Tower um. and so we searched you know I hired a. team of um of contractors to do the. search you know we invited the FBI to. tag along the FBI. refused um you know one of my colleagues.

had overseen the search at Bedminster. where they found. nothing um and ultimately I personally. oversaw the search at Trump Tower uh. which was definitely one of those you. know things that I never expected to. ever be doing in my life you know. growing up you know in you know right. outside of New York City and then. starting my legal career career as a New. York City criminal defense attorney go. search Trump Tower for classified.

documents was not one of those tasks. that I ever envisioned being on my to-do. list um but we did we did and yeah. really interesting experience you know. beautiful. building um you know very you know. beautiful spaces you know we started in. the office area uh. um and he's got this. phenomenal office you know corner office.

with the panoramic views of Central Park. and. everything um and you then we you know. when we finished searching. there we we went through all of his. records that had you know real estate. deals going back to the. 70s. um and it was we were sitting there. laughing like this is silly that were. searching this place because there's. nothing. here post.

2016 cuz when he was elected he. moved and everything is like almost. Frozen in time there you know went up to. the apartment which was stunning. apartment um you searched all around. um we were in the dining room and the. guy who was taking us around he pointed. up and he said how you like that. chandelier beautiful chandelier he's.

like do you see it. moving and you could the chandelier was. just ever so slightly swaying back and. forth like yeah why is that he says. Chandelier's not moving the building is. moving the. chandelier swinging because of. that because those big buildings they. Flex. wow so you know we went through the. whole place place and quite frankly. halfway through I started to.

feel um very. uncomfortable because like especially. when we got to the bedroom and stuff. like that it's a very personal. space. and the fact that I'm having to Search. Donald. Trump's. closet for classified documents was just. if felt. very wrong to me it felt like it was.

very. invasive uh and. [Music]. um obviously I I appreciate that he. trusted you know me and my team you know. to do that and it's obviously better for. us to do that than for the FBI to do it. um. but. um going through that place it was it. was totally Frozen in time in 2016 wow. you know found nothing no.

nothing nothing at. all is there. anything that we're not covering when it. comes to the classified documents. case I mean those are the big things. yeah it's it's. just the obstruction. allegation if proven is the biggest. danger to him. not the documents themselves. okay let's take a quick break when we.

come back we will get to the last one. New York New York stormmy Daniels oh. yeah which I thought was done but uh I. guess not didn't we. all at Grand Canyon University they. believe that the military men and women. are the unique Among The Uncommon you. fought for our freedom your bravery and. leadership are celebrated by all. Americans GCU matches your commitment to.

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superfoods.com promo code SRS 20%. off Tim we're back from the break this. is the last one so we got the hush money. case Stormy Daniels I thought this was. done a long time ago to be honest with. it when I started doing the research and. I saw this come up I I was uh yeah I. thought it was I thought this was. settled it was no didn't the attorney go. down yeah that's what I thought.

so it's such a bizarre thing and just I. think they called it the zombie case. even because it just came back from the. dead you know it shouldn't have ever. been a criminal case to begin with um. you know Michael Cohen is a for. how he wrote up that settlement. agreement and you know it should have. never come back to life let alone come. back to life is a criminal case and it.

was. closed the pro the prosecutor who was. brought in to do the case was upset he. wrote a book about it about you know why. he was upset that they didn't do it. and it was all in history and then all. of a sudden surprise here's here it is. back again and and and in the most. legally incompetent form. possible it so March 2023 I Manhattan.

grand jury voted to indict Trump 34. accounts of violating a New York law on. corporate recordkeeping Trump turned. himself into authorities was processed. as a criminal defendant pleaded not. guilty and was released without having. to post bail trial is scheduled for. March 25th. 2024 34 counts on new New York penal law. falsifying business records in the first. degree Char Trump charged with crimes in.

the investigation prosecutors would. likely argue that Daniel's payoff. constituted an illegal contribution to. Trump's campaign a violation of either. state or federal election law that Trump. furthered by falsifying his company's. records the way I understand this is. is actually I don't understand this but. um falsifying business.

records labeling the payoff is a legal. expense from the campaign is that am I. correct so what they did here was. Michael Cohen decided to pay her. personally and then he was to be. reimbursed. by. Trump and so these are checks to Michael. Cohen that are then booked as you know.

legal expenses. M um did he write the checks him himself. I don't think so but one of the. interesting things here is that New York. State loves. to take you know a single count and turn. it into many counts so when you say. about how there's 30 some accounts. really what that is every check is a. separate count and then every you know.

memo entry in the checkbook is a. separate count so for each check there's. two. counts yeah and they do this with a lot. of things I mean I remember years ago I. had a um the New York State version of. RICO case it was a a more traditional. you know Tian organized crime you know. gambling and lone shark in case and I go. in and they hand me the indictment it's. this.

thick and I start to look into I'm like. my God this is the biggest indictment. I've ever. seen and it turns out they took every. bet and charge them all of separate. counts you know over the course of you. know a couple of years that they were. running a sports book it's like every. bet on football games was a separate. count it was the most incomprehensibly. you know stupid waste of trees. ever and but that's what they do and.

that's what they did here is they're. taking really it's just one. transaction that was paid out in a. couple in a few different checks and. they you expand it out like that okay so. the feds don't do that the feds would. have charged this as a one count. indictment probably okay uh maybe two or. three but wouldn't it be this you know. 30 some odd is the federal government. Behind These State ones I mean are they.

coaching them like the. Geor I don't know I've heard that. rumored um I haven't seen it so I'm not. going. to give it oxygen one way or the other I. I don't. know yeah I I have heard that though but. yes so ultimately what we're talking. about here. is there is this. you know she made an. allegation um Michael Cohen worked out a. deal to pay her off he wrote it up.

stupidly and yeah and she got paid there. was an NDA she wasn't allowed to talk. about it and she violated it um and now. they're trying to say that the payment. was you know some kind of campaign. contribution the campaign argument I. think Falls because that's already been. tried in other circumstances John. Edwards for example and paying off.

somebody to keep a um an extra maral. Affair. silent um is not a campaign thing you. know campaign expenses have to be. something that's purely for the campaign. the can't beign any you know personal. you know piece to it and so if he's also. interested in having her not tell the. world because it would hurt business. marriage. Etc then it's not really a campaign.

Finance issue MH which is exactly what. happened with John. Edwards. so I don't think that they're going to. get there with. that um I think that they have statute. limitations problems because this thing. happened so many years ago and they're. they're trying to extend the statute of. limitations based on the idea that. well we can extend it. because he spent all that time in dayc. so he was outside of New York so I think.

that they could potentially have. problems with that um but just the. Baseline of this thing just doesn't. doesn't doesn't make. sense I of all the indictments this is. far and above the weakest really oh. yeah how do you you think all these I. mean they all came in 4 and 1/2 months. obviously there was some kind of I mean.

this was when did this. happen no that was that was that was May. I think that I mean what what. initially this was before he was. president yeah back in like 2015 201 so. it I mean somebody's definitely. convoluting all of this and and. coordinating. correct you don't get a 91 felony counts. in four different states. in 4 and a half months I don't know I. mean obviously the the Florida and DC.

cases are connected because it's the. same you know the same boss at doj on. both of those cases so th those two are. obviously connected the other two quite. frankly strike me as more of um you know. local prosecutors that are trying to W. ride the wave okay um you. know they're trying to jump on the bandw. maybe there's some coordination but I. doubt it because my personal opinion is. that there's not the coordination.

because first of all I don't think the. federal government has any legitimate. interest in Alvin brag bringing a weak. case that is almost certainly going to. get thrown out okay I don't think the. federal government has any interest in. Fanny Willis bringing a case that. directly contradicts the federal. prosecutors Theory their case and you. know and Sidelines a whole bunch of. their Witnesses so I don't really see.

that coordination going on at least with. the government okay um you know are. there possible coordination with you. know fundraisers and things like that U. because of these two you know elected. District Attorneys maybe I don't know. but it definitely struck me as more of a. you know want to jump on the B wagon oh. wait we we indicted him too yeah I mean. they definitely if anything they're. definitely getting a ton of publicity.

out of it sure you know but. um. okay where do you think this is heading. dismissal dismissal relatively soon I I. would think it should be heading for. dismissal um same with the others I mean. this one is a pretty legally incompetent. Theory so if this one doesn't get. dismissed. um yeah I think it would get overturned. by on appeal oh good is there anything. we're missing that with the storman.

Daniels case no that's I mean that's the. outline of it it's just it's it's a weak. case weak case being brought for nakedly. political. purposes so with you wrapping up the. interview you're one of the four lead. attorneys on this at the beginning you. have more insight into all of this. than anybody. else in your.

opinion is this political prosecution. that we're. seeing is this going to become the. norm I believe that it is politically. motivated I think certainly the two. state prosecutions are are without a. doubt politically motivated I think that. the federal. prosecutions um are. because of the disparate treatment of. him to other you know similarly situated.

defendants uh I do see politics involved. there and and I think that you know I. don't like to be the guy saying oh it's. a it's a political Witch Hunt you I I. hate I don't like using the word Witch. Hunt at. all but here's the. thing when they go in and they try to. demand a ludic iously speedy. trial nakedly for the purpose of getting. it done before the.

election you feed that. narrative you. know if you are engaging in litigation. strategies that are so obviously. intended to be timed related to the. election you feed The credibility of. those that say that it's a political WI. hunt that it's election. interference if and I look at this you I.

have a different perspective on these. things not only because of my personal. prior personal involvement but also. because I spend a career working in the. Federal Criminal Justice world and so. when I look at the manner in which these. prosecutors are acting as compared to. every other. case that it's it's that you know Delta. of the. treatment that supports you know the.

conclusion that is being done for. political. purposes are there any charges that you. believe may be. valid a legitimate concern I think that. the most legitimate concern is the. obstruction counts in. Florida if. everything that's in the indictment is. true if big. if I've obviously had a lot of success.

in my career going in and winning cases. where the things that they put in the. indictment turn out not to be true so I. don't. believe everything that doj writes into. an indictment okay but. if if all of the allegations if all if. everything in all of these. indictments were true. I think that the obstruction in Florida. is his single greatest.

threat my next concern is fair. trial the. jury good luck youve exactly you I mean. I remember when I interviewed Eddie. Gallagher he talked extensively about. how they tried to well they didn't try. they did pack the jury. is there. any is there even any hope that they.

will have a a a fair trial with a. legitimate. jury and how would you even I mean with. the I'll ask that question. later you. know here's the problem with. that that is an issue for any. defendant in a high-profile. case um and certainly any politically. charged.

case can you find. jurors who will be fair. sure sure I mean the Georgia grand jury. was not unanimous there were people in. there that thought he should not be. indicted um I'm sure that the grand jury. in in DC also was not. unanimous um the Florida Cas obviously. he's going to be tried in the. jurisdiction where the jury pool has a. lot more people that voted for him than. against.

him ultimately as a trial lawyer what I. want are jurors who are going to keep an. open mind that haven't prejudged the. case given the amount of publicity in. these cases I think that's going to be. very difficult to. find and that's not just the Trump thing. you know I think that Hunter Biden's. going to have the same. problem uh Bob Menendez to a certain. extent is going to have the same.

problem it's the reason why back in 2016. when Jim Comey came out and said you. know no reasonable prosecutor would. bring the case against Hillary Clinton I. agreed with. him different reasons but I agree with. his. conclusion because I believed there's no. way you're going to be able to pick a. fair and impartial. jury to try you know USV.

Clinton because everybody has already. been so saturated with the stuff that. they're going to have their opinions. already made up that's what I was that. was actually my next question you know. that's about Hillary Clinton about Trump. yeah it's you can't find the. jury I don't think that's not going to. bring their own you know baggage yeah I. mean look I I tried a case years ago. very different circumstances I tried the.

case of the uh the three guys who uh. base jumped off of the top of one World. Trade Center and it was big news in New. York at the time uh the GoPro video. footage was you know amazing it got. millions of views on on. YouTube and when the jury came. in and the judge you know said hey has. anybody heard of this case before we. lost half the panel right. there because half the panel stood up.

and they got in line and they said yes. I've I've heard of this case um have you. formed an opinion of this case oh yeah. what they did was freaking. awesome and I'm sitting there watching. all my best jurors. leave but. um that's the point is that I lost half. the juror. in that. case if you apply the same standard to. Donald. Trump by the way same same judge tried.

that case that has the uh the Manhattan. case for Trump if you apply that same. standard of hey jurs how many of you. have heard of this. case everybody's out. yeah I don't it's to to me it seems. impossible I mean every everything is. politically charged in this country at. this point you're. either prot Trump or anti-trump right.

you know there doesn't seem to be any. middle ground and so you know when I'm. talking about a fair trial I'm I'm not. just talking about a panel of. anti-trump jurors I'm talking about prot. Trump as well and and I mean where where. would you even begin to find neutral. jurors. with these with this defendant I don't. think you can yeah do you think they'll. try to pack the.

jury well look I mean the way the juries. get selected there's not that much you. can really do about it you know people. are randomly selected based on their. driver's license registration. and um there's a process so it's. different in a military jury because is. there The convening Authority picks the. panel that you start from but in a. civilian system.

um the jury is already packed based on. bringing the case in a. jurisdiction that is you know so uh. polarized you know if the Georgia case. gets removed to Federal Court then you. have a much wider jury pool and so you. would have a jury pool that goes into. other counties that did vote for Trump. for. example uh but you have to start with. the idea that you if you have a fton.

County jury then you know how many votes. did he get in that county that's. probably the percentage you got um which. doesn't mean. 100% you know I don't know what the. numbers were there but even if even if. uh Biden won by. 70% that means 30% of your potential. jurors V for. Trump and. ultimately you need a unanimous verdict. to convict.

somebody and so if you have a third of. your you know of your jurors so out of. 12. four you 8 to four assume that the. jurors ignore all the evidence and they. just vote based on who they voted for in. the election. mhm even there you go going have. difficulty cuz you're going to have an 8. to4. verdict.

interesting it's going to be really. interesting to see how this all plays. out are you worried for the. country I. am and yet I'm I'm not. um you know all I think that all of the. calls for oh this is the greatest threat. to democracy and you know we've never. had a situation like this before I think. those are somewhat. overblown um and I think that those are.

primarily being pushed by people that. have not studied our own history because. we have had plenty of strife in this. country and. survived is this next couple of years. going to be utter chaos. yes could it you know devolve into into. something worse yes is it going to be. the end of our country I don't believe.

so you know I I study history and I look. at um yeah I love reading books about. you know historical figures and when you. read them especially if you read them. today you're going to pick out. interesting things in those books um the. parallel what you see. today and so you see that the the. Discord here is really that much. different from a lot of the Discord that.

happened you know in the late 1700s. early. 1800s not. really is it really that much worse than. when half the country decided to. seced and we started shooting each. other. no I don't think it's that. bad I think the difference is I think. the biggest risk is back.

then as bad as it was people didn't know. about it because we didn't have Twitter. and Fox News and CNN and all these other. things news traveled at the speed of a. horse we had a very interesting. conversation in dinner last night on. overcorrection yeah and how the pendulum. is swinging and.

how you kind of had mentioned that this. had started with. Obama I think that there's an element of. that I. mean you know each time you have the. pendulum. swing. um you know Obama you know kind of swung. the pendulum to one side which which you. know brought the conditions that would. bring Trump to. office as it swings over to the other. side and then it goes way over in the.

reaction to. Trump and I think one of the interesting. things is. Trump one of his. um strengths or weaknesses depending how. you look at it is he brings. out extreme positions from his opponents. and so if you look at for example um. immigration historically there's been a.

debate about. immigration. and if you go back and watch um in fact. I I invite you go back and watch the. 1995 State of the Union Address by Bill. Clinton and watch the part where he's. talking about immigration. and when you watch that you're going to. sit there and shake your head and say my. God I forgot that Bill Clinton was a. republican because his talking points. aren't that much substantively different.

than. Trump's on reducing illegal immigration. building a. wall you know we're a nation of. immigrants but we're a nation of laws. things like. that and yet then when Trump you know. pushes this whole you know build the. wall you then get you know the back. swing of well if Trump wants to build. the wall then we want open.

borders and then you have a situation. like you have. now this country and in fact I think the. world um you know politics suffers from. you. know abuse corruption. overcorrection and all ultimately. getting back. to um you know kind of an. equilibrium you the same is true of you.

know bail. reform I think I told you about this. last night bail. reform everybody's talking about how you. know New York has gone and a lot of. these states have gone with the Noh bail. reform where you know nobody gets held. in pre-trial confinement and all these. people are out on the street and they're. killing cops and and all the. everything's terrible and yet I look at. it and I. say that is an overcorrection of a. legitimate. problem because when I started out my.

career in New York City they were. jailing people prec. conviction for things that they did not. need to be jailed for they weren't. dangerous to the community they weren't. risk of flight they were putting them in. jail to make it more difficult to defend. themselves and so like I had a guy once. he was in Riker's. Island his case primarily consisted of. audio recordings you know we had.

hundreds of hours of audio. recordings he wasn't allowed to have a. computer so under the way that the. system was set up the first time he's. allowed to hear any of the evidence. against him is when it's played for the. jury. and this is a guy that we knew for two. years he was under investigation we knew. it and about once a week I call up the.

prosecutor and say Hey you want my guy. to surrender you know where we at are. you you ready to charge him you want me. to bring him in no no not this week come. again next. week they finally get to the point where. they want to charge him and they show up. at his house 5:30 in the. morning he always woke up at 4:00 in the. morning cuz he knew that they would do. this and so he would go out for a walk. and so when they showed up he's sitting. on his porch drinking coffee they show. up with the SWAT team and he's sitting.

there oh hi guys hold on a second I'll. be right down he finishes his coffee. walks down holds his hands out 5 hours. later we're in front of a judge he must. be held in pre-ra confinement he is a. risk of flight if we don't hold him he's. going to disappear he look wait a minute. we've been talking for 2. years and sure enough the judge put him. on marker's island where he couldn't. review any of the discovery against.

him that's just one example of. many where Bale was an abusive system. that was robbing people of their. constitutional rights it was undermining. their fundamental right to be able to. defend. themselves and it needed to be. corrected but no cash bail is a massive. overcorrection and so now they're going. to have to swing the pendulum back and.

eventually we're going to get to an. equilibrium and once you reach the. equilibrium everything's going to be. fine for a. while until the institutional memory. Fades and then it will fall off again. and then you'll be back in the. pendulum he got a great way of relating. things back to his to them that's right. you do a phenomenal job at it. well I just want to say thank you for.

coming and um unpacking all of. these indictments and um I just you know. I think people don't understand what. this is all about I didn't and um you. really you did you just did a great job. of explaining everything and thank you. for coming down to do that well than. thank you thank you for giving me the. opportunity you're welcome one last. question. sure if they wanted you back on that.

legal. team would you. go I would have some conditions um the. answer is yes I would consider going. back but there would be certain. conditions based on my past experience. that I would want to make sure that. um certain barri and personalities are. removed fair. enough but other other than that I.

mean the reason why I took the case on. in the first place is. unchanged it's an important. case it's it's you know very you know. consequential issues to this. country and you know let's be honest I. didn't become a trial lawyer because I. wanted to just do a volume DWI practice. you I like getting into the biggest. loudest fights and this is one of. them but I would just need to be have.

the conditions right to where I could. actually fight it definitely. understandable I need three. recommendations from you on who do you. think would be good on the show who. would you like to see. here so the first one uh we talked about. before and I've I've I think I've. already connected you with them is the. former Governor of Missouri Eric. Rens um I think that he'd be a really.

interesting guest relevant to a lot of. the things we're talking about here. because uh he as sitting. Governor uh was indicted for a crime he. did not commit by a you know politically. um you know elected district attorney he. was forced to resign as governor and. then after he resigned it came out that. the lead investigator ended up pleading.

guilty to tampering with evidence and. the. prosecutor also pleaded guilty to an. ethics violation for presenting false. evidence and. ultimately she had to step. down but none of that puts him back in. office you know the political aim of. that Pro prosecution have been. fulfilled um and he's also just a really. interesting and Brilliant guy you know. former seal as well so I think you would.

enjoy uh and your audience would enjoy. talking to him perfect uh the second one. is um a good friend of mine and and a. good client uh Tommy. Vex so Tommy is a um he's a heavy metal. musician um he doesn't fit the graphic. uh demographic for most heavy metal. musicians he's black he grew up in the. streets of Brooklyn he has a twin. brother and his life story is the.

perfect illustration of how personal. choices uh affect where we end up cuz he. and his twin brother you know both grew. up on the streets both got into a lot of. trouble Tommy went straight and he went. sober his brother did not. his brother is serving time in prison. right now for attempted murder of Tommy. wow the sounds really interesting.

Tommy because of his decision to go. straight is a world touring rock star. and an incredible human. being I think you would like him a lot. perfect and the third one is actually. somebody that I I don't know the first. two are admittedly clients of mine uh. the third one somebody I've never met. before I'd like to meet um Mike Simpson. um I I recently read his book and have.

been listening to his podcast uh really. fascinating guy he started off as a. ranger uh then became a Green Beret. enlisted uh and then went to medical. school you went from being an 18 Del to. Special Forces medic to going to medical. school and then went back um. to Special Operations as a physician uh. to support the Special Operations troops. and now he's retired from that and he's.

um really focused on. longevity um he just published a book uh. not too long ago called hon uh finding. your Edge as a man over 40 um it's. something I've been reading about how to. you know find to my um diet and exercise. and and. lifestyle um and he's a fascinating. podcast where he talks about a lot of. these things um so I think that he's. somebody else that you'd find very. interesting so those are my three.

recommendations thank you we'll. definitely look into them and uh and yes. you did connect me with Eric and I do I. have had conversations with Mike so I. will uh and I know you'll connect me. with um Tommy absolutely perfect I never. would have pictured you as a heavy metal. guy Tim you know one thing about Tommy. um he used to be the frontman of a band. called the bad wolves um he uh he took. over his temporarily frontman for Five.

Finger Death Punch when their lead. singer went into rehab he's done so much. to help so many you know musicians and. celebrities with substance abuse. issues um and you know one of the. interesting stories about him is he was. going to be doing a uh a duet with. Dolores aeren of The Cranberries of a. redo of. their famous song um. zombie and the night before they were. supposed to record the. duet she uh she died wow as a result of.

I think she actually drowned but it was. a it was an alcohol induced uh. death and so he went forward with the. song which got millions of views it was. very very popular song. but he donated 100% of the revenue or. the profits to her. children that's a hell of a guy so he is.

he's a guy he's he's a heavy metal. musician with a deep. story perfect perfect well hopefully. we'll get him on yeah thank you for the. recommendations thank you brother I. appreciate it thank. you. [Music]. hey everybody I'm sha Ryan click here to. subscribe to the Sha Ryan Show YouTube.

channel for the hottest and most. compelling interviews that you will not. see anywhere else I've also made a. playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find you can. find that right. here.