Tim Kennedy - Under Investigation for False Bronze Star with Valor Claim | SRS #100

We are at episode. 100. I can't believe it. Took about 4 and 1/2 years to get here. And truth be told, we're still in our infancy. A lot more to come. And um but you know, as I reflect through. the past 100 episodes, I've thought a. lot about, you know, what does this show. mean to me? What is the what is the.

reoccurring message, the reoccurring. theme? And and and. for me, you know, what I get out of this and. what I hope you all get out of this is. no matter how dark of a place you're in, no matter how bad it is, no matter how. much you've messed up in life, there is. always a way out. There is. there is always.

a way to put that behind you and. find redemption to become a better human. being, a better dad, a better husband, a better. countryman, just a better person all around. And the. guests that have been on here have. proven that time and time again. Thank you for sticking around. Man, that. that chokes me up to to say that. But,

um, our 100th guest. really needs no introduction, but I just. want to say that I found him to be an. incredible human being. I'm proud to. know him. He's done a hell of a lot for the. country in service and continues to. out of service. beyond what anybody's ever asked him. And um. he just still does it today. He's a.

former UFC fighter. He's a former he. still is green beret actually. And and. uh. I can't believe I hadn't met him until. dinner before we actually recorded this. show. But. perfect guest for 100 and a new friend. of mine. Ladies and gents, if you get anything. out of this, please comment, like, and. subscribe to the YouTube channel. And if. you're feeling extra generous, head over. to Apple and Spotify. Leave us a review.

Even if it's just one word, that really. helps the show out. And um and I want you to know that no. matter how you've supported us, whether. you've been here from the beginning in. the gun review days or you're just. coming and this is your first episode, you're a patron, however it is, I appreciate it. My team. appreciates it and we love you. And. without further ado, I'd like to welcome.

Mr. Tim Kennedy to the Shawn Ryan Show. Here's to the next 100 and. God bless America. Tim Kennedy, welcome to the show, man. Hello, Sean. Thanks for having me, dude. Long time coming. How have we not. crossed paths before? I have no idea. I was um as I was. throwing out names of good friends,

former teammates, and you like you're. doing this with them and I'm doing this. with them and we just there was overlap, but I don't think any ever connection. Y. in our like circles, we probably have. two 300 people that we both know, but. this is the first opportunity I've had. to sit down with you. Well, it's an honor to have you here, man. Real honor. I'm uh I've been real. excited to meet you, so thank you for. making the trip. But um so we're going. to do a life story on you. It's going to. be super interesting.

I know. I know you think it might be. boring. That's what you said in the. text, but I guarantee you. it's not. Uh I can't I can't wait to get. this out. And no pressure. I didn't tell. you last night at dinner, but uh you're. going to be episode 100. What? Hell yeah. Nice. So pretty cool. Pretty cool. That's awesome. But uh let me kick this off with an. introduction here. Okay. It's a long one. Tim Kennedy, husband, father of three,

three daughters, one son. You're a. Special Forces Green Beret, Special. Forces Sniper, Ranger Qualified, Infantrymen, and Airborne. former. professional mixed martial arts fighter. and two-time title challenger, having. fought in the largest organizations in. the world to include the UFC, Strike. Force,FL, and WEC. Black Belts in. Brazil, Brazilian jiu-jitsu and US Army. combives. You're an author, New York. Times bestseller of Scars and Stripes, an unapologetically American story of.

the fighting the Taliban, UFC Warriors. and Myself. number one audio book in the. world for more than 13 weeks. It's very. impressive. I know. It's wild. It's a mouthful. Chapstick connoisseur. coowner. co-owner of Ranger Up, CEO of Sheep Dog Response, which is a. tactical training and self-defense. company, co-founder and board member of. Save Our Allies. Can't wait to get into.

that. Uh, opened in Apogi Academy. That's K through 12 charter school in. 2020. And now you have more than how. many. schools? We're gonna open 50 new schools. in 2024. And we launched online. mentorship this year. And we have. thousands of um mentories. What's the. plural of? Yeah. that are all on this. like sovereignty, freedomloving. uh American element that I think I wish.

every single American embraced, which is. what it means to be a good contributing. citizen. Man, I love the motto or your maybe it's. not the motto of this. I don't know what. it is, but it's your personal goal, which is to preserve and protect human. life, empower people to provide for. their families, and expand freedom. and take down the Department of. Education. Oh yeah. The end the end state for. apogee is to abolish every use useless. form of education or whatever that word. means. Um to to truly give back.

sovereignty to the to the family so that. children can be what they're they're. destined to be which is amazing. individuals and critical thinkers and. contributing members of society. Not not. slaves, not lemmings, not um consumers, you know, not labor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that I can't wait to dive into. that too. That is, you know, I didn't. realize I knew you had started a school. I did not realize how much traction uh. and how fast that took off until I.

started doing a little research on you. So, man, that's just you got some super. honorable things you're doing. And um. yeah, that's not me, though. I mean, that's that Matt Budro, my partner. um. you know Michelle Myers and Lauren that. run the school like they're 100% all. credit goes to them and to God cuz um if. I was in charge of any of it, you know, there'd be like uh there'd be swords on. the walls and there'd be axes. You see. little kids running around with. tomahawks like let's go, you know. So. unfortunately they they they put me in a.

corner and limit my my influence. and one of the few fighters to serve in. the military and fight professionally at. the same time. Yeah. I don't know if that was the best. idea, but well part of your story now. Yeah. So um but yeah, man, I'm I am really. excited to have you here. Everybody's. pumped about this. We got a Patreon. community. They're the reason I'm here. They're the reason you're here. and that. I'm able to do this. And so I give them.

an opportunity to ask questions. Okay. And so this one is from Steven Casey. In. reference to the Hunting Hitler TV. series that you did on the History. Channel, are there any things that. didn't make it into the episodes that. are worth knowing? What got cut, if. anything, from the series that would. help us understand better? Yeah, it's a it's a great question. It's. a hard question. Um, about half of what we investigated ended. up on the edit room floor. So, I'd say.

we overshot 200%. of the investigation that never went. into. yes, it was real truthful storytelling. Um, but they're also f following like. this narrative that of a story that they. wanted to tell and the arc of that story. was did Hitler get out? Um, the things. that I cared about were are around the. idea of how did these Nazis get out and. more importantly, how did their ideas.

get ground and um, you know, have legs. into history moving forward. One of the. one of the hardest things that didn't. make it into the show was us following. some of the Nazis in the Middle East and. North Africa. Um, what are they doing in North Africa? Yeah. Uh, well, they were aligning with. radical Muslim groups and what did the. Nazis and the Muslims have in common?

Jews. That's right. So uh you know the. founding of the mujaheden to um the. grand mufti when Israel was first going. to become a nation in 1944. They uh. you know when it finally happened in. 1946 the Grand Muy was organizing every. single neighboring country to attack. The Grand Muy was being advised by. Nazis. Um, and every one of those.

Muslimbased countries, the Grand Muy, who was like the religious leader at the. time over all of them, he was. orchestrating and and organizing. strategically the connective advisors, which were Nazis that had been smuggled. out of Germany and into North Africa. Uh, like anywhere that they could go. that they were welcomed. So like in. Argentina for example, gigantic Nazi. population, huge German settlements that. were there. Did you still see that down there?

Oh yeah. Yeah. I went this got cut. This. is we went to this fight club as I was. trying to find out about um these legacy. heritage family owners, the land owners. down in Argentina. Like we'd go to these. r rural remote areas and you'd walk into. a a coffee shop and you like Buenos and. they're like gluten Morgan. I'm like, "All right." I mean, you're in the. middle of nowhere and there's this. blonde six-year-old dude with blue eyes. and he's correcting you speaking Spanish.

in Argentina cuz he wants to speak. German in his coffee shop. And I mean, it's rooted in there. I going to this. fight club as I was trying to find out. who owns some of these pieces of. property that we're getting on. There. were dudes with SS tattoos on their. necks, swastikas on their arms, palm. leaves on their sides, you know, and um. all the way back to the. What does the palm leaf mean? the uh the. the German campaign of North Africa. Okay. The uh you know it's it's like a palm. tree with a swastika at the base of it.

[ __ ] I've not seen that. Yeah. Wow. And I I literally like see and. these are grandsons of you know men that. escaped. war criminal hearings to settle in. Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, North Africa, and the Middle East. Wow. Yeah, they got out. That's That didn't. make it into the show. Go figure. Um, one more question. This. is actually from another patron, but I'm.

personally interested in this, too. Uh, her name's Amy Weaver. She wants to. know, did we get Hitler or did he escape? Well, he died for sure. Um, now, did he. die in April in 1945 in the bunker? Uh, or did he live a few more years? We we. know his health was deteriorating. rapidly um at the end of the war. Regardless of if of if he got out, we. know his ideas got out. And the the way.

that we did this investigation was we. looked as we're looking at patterns of. life as as as you know, like as as you. hunt people, you first every person has. a fingerprint. And um no matter where. they go in the world, that figure. fingerprint is how they live. Like if. you want to find me, you're going to. find me in jiu-jitsu gyms. You're going. to find me in good coffee shops. You're. going to find me in cold water. or. you're going to find me um at shooting. ranges like the no matter where I go I I. end up having this very similar pattern. where I stay, the floor that I stand, the room that I stand. So as we figured. out the pattern of life of these Nazis,

um we looked, you know, two through 10. escaped, you know, the Joseph. Mangallays, the Scorzenskis, the Adolf. Ikeman's, th those guys got out. So if. number 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 if all Martin. Borman if all these guys got out but. Hitler then didn't and was left there to. die was he such a fanatic radical that. he wanted to go down with the sinking. ship? Um or we know for a fact that the.

all of the things they rehearsed and all. of the escape routes that they had. practiced were ultimately used by. highranking Nazis. Could it have been. Hitler? Absolutely. Um, did we find the smoking gun of here is. his body, here's his skull, here's the. DNA proof. No, we did not. Interesting. Yeah. Frustrating. Yeah. It's uh, man, that had to be a. fascinating project to be on. It was a ton of fun getting a call when.

you're in a. a weird moment in your life being like, "Oh, you can fly drones. You know how to. use ground penetrating radar. You can. speak Spanish. She got deployments in. South America. Do you want to hunt. Nazis? And I was like, "Yes, yes, I do. First, I'm going to hide this erection. Second, book me a flight. Tell me where. to go. I cannot wait." You know, I've. been hunting people my whole entire. adult life, and now you're going to tell. me to hunt Nazis. The only thing better. would be like zombies. Like, this this. is like a a moral free um no guilt.

opportunity to hunt people. I'm in. Very. cool. Very cool. Well, we're getting. ready to get into your life story. But. first, everybody always gets a gift. All right. Any guesses? Um, I already have it. No. Um, how many times? Gummy bears. Those are legal in all 50 states. Okay. Yeah. So, feel free to dive in at any. moment. They're These are very nice packaging,

too. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And uh yeah, I don't know if you've. heard of that book. It's a fascinating book. It'll be linked. in the description if you want to pick. up a copy. There's a then a really ugly dude on the. front that needs to get a haircut and uh. that obviously is a range body armor. I mean, yeah. Stars and Stripes, ladies. and gents. New York Times bestseller for. 13 weeks on audio book and I don't know.

how long for the book, but it's crazy. But um yeah, so. you don't have to read that all now. Okay. Little light reading material for the. ride home. When I read the audio book, um you know, you're in a studio like. this, it's completely silent. It's like. sensory deprivation and. you're reliving as you're reading your. own book like the worst moments of your. life. Like this is not a a war story of. like here's all the awesome things I.

did. It's literally all the things that. I failed at in my whole entire life. Failed title fights, failed as a. teammate, failed as a Green Beret, like. failed fail fail fail. And um and you're. like sitting there in shame and. embarrassment and humiliation by. yourself in a sound studio. And uh dude, it took me it was so hard to read this. book. I'll bet it was hard. How long did it take you to do that. audio book? Well, they said like you you you. probably knocked this out in like 5 days.

if you just like sat there. It took me a. month. A month? A month. Wow. Yeah. Like the I'm 15. years old. my best friend dies in a car. crash and uh you like the the youth the. the my childhood ends. and you know when you're sitting there. reading. walking up to see my best friend's mom. who there's she's not the same woman. that she was 2 days ago. There's no life.

behind her eyes. It's literally like a. shark's eyes. There's just deadness. behind there. And my best friend's older. brother Jordan um he couldn't even see. me. like he couldn't look at me because. I was his brother's friend. And so like. now I'm isolated and I'm living all of. that stuff as I'm reading this book, but. I'm remembering back to things that. aren't even in this book. You know, your. mind just travels so fast, especially. with with emotions and memories. It was. so hard to read this. You know, when you. got blown up, when I lost teammates, when I you know, like that brings you.

back to. some some hard hard moments. Well, I hope to cover a lot of that. today. So, um. Well, thank you. Yeah. You're welcome. The paperback just came out. Did it really? Yeah. This is uh this is like two weeks. two three weeks uh release here. It's cool. Well, let's get into the interview now. So, where did you grow up? I was born in St. Louis Bispo, California. Um and uh my dad was a.

narcotics officer and my mom was they. were like the the opposites. She was a. counselor at the church. She is a piano. teacher. You know, she ultimately. homeschooled us. And uh you know, this. is as a child that was born in the 80s. and raised in the or born in the 70s and. raised in the '8s. You know, she'd walk. around with a wooden. spoon in her back pocket. You know, I. think my my little sister's first. memories were like in the movie Twister. where like chunks of wood were flying.

past her head which were which were. these spoons that my mom would just kept. breaking. And um so I was born in St. Louis Bispo and raised in the central. coast of California. Pastoral Wolves at. Tascadero Cambria. That was like my our. hood. Yeah. Cool. Middle class. Yeah. single income. father of uh my mom. So your mom was all volunteer? Yeah. Oh wow. Okay.

Off a cop salary off a single income of. a police officer in California in the. 80s. We were poor. Um you know we did we had. one bathroom in the house. Um we always. had somebody living in our house with us. as well. uh you know, somebody from the. church on hard times or like I can't. remember a single moment growing up. where my brother and I and my sister. were sharing a room or that there was. somebody else sleeping, you know, if if.

there's a girl that she was sleeping in. the room with my sister, you know, she. was struggling with an eating disorder. or whatever. Um or like abuse at the. house, they come and live with us cuz. like the Kennedys were the safest place. you could possibly be. you know, if. you're in Mike Kennedy's house with. Paula Kennedy, my parents like you're. safe. Um, and that projection of my. parents and that essence of being a. protector and a provider like obviously. heavily influenced me and how we grew. up, you know, by the time, you know, my.

sister's in elementary school and my. brother and I are, you know, 8 10 years. old, I'm I'm already ready to throw down. with somebody that sends a weird look. towards my six-year-old sister. Like it. was just this is who we are as as men is. we're protectors first and foremost of. our of our family. Man, that's great. You don't hear that a. lot these days. No. You know, there are some I wish it was a little. bit more common. Yeah, me too. So, you guys you had a. tight-knit family. Very tight. Still close with your dad.

Incredibly close. And your mom? Yep. And your siblings? Yep. I'm uh flying. My brother's getting. an award next week in um. his partner was in a really really bad. shooting and uh my brother's just an. epic hero. Uh as my sister is brilliant. She's incredible. Uh there there's a a. photograph of my my my brother running. So like covering fire as he's moving his. partner off the X from the shooting, man. And uh it's an incredible photo,

but more importantly like in that. moment, my brother is the ground force. commander of this shooting where you. know a great. community hero gets shot up by a. criminal and um and my brother's taking. this dude getting him to safety to. medevac him out to save his life. So. I'll fly to California so my brother can. get his award next Friday. Oh man. Yeah. Well, congratulations to him. That's. he's amazing. Incredible. Um, so what were you into growing up?

Fixing fences, fighting Mexicans. Um, like this is this is uh rural. California. When people hear California, like yeah, I surfed. I was not a surfer. Um, Hollywood was 4 hours south. San. Francisco is 4 hours north. You know, we. uh there was avocado trees. There were. the beginning of wineries. Not a lot of. wineries. So, there's garlic, there's. onions, there's strawberries. The the. orange trees are further south and.

inland. You know, we um I'm working on. the Scary Ranch. Um. I did martial arts. I shot, I hunted, and I worked. Um we started working. young. What did you really I mean, what. do you think you really excelled at? Getting into trouble. I uh I. man I I started like throwing down. early. Um you know somebody would say. something slick to my sister and I was.

like a pitbull that had been starved and. locked in a cage for too long and I. would just go. I just needed an excuse. Um the first time I heard. my brother-in-law who married my sister, he's Asian and his brother also adopted. Um, he was black and we're at the. California Midstate Fair in Pastor. Robels, California. I hear two words. that I'd never heard before. Did you just say your brother's adopted? U, my brother-in-law is Korean and then.

adopted. And his other brother is also. adopted. There were six. um, like white German kids, Koig, and. then there were six adopted kids, a. family of 12. And the races of the. adopted kids were were varying if you. know, black and Asian. Um, and the. California Midstate Fair, which is like. again really rural. And uh, you know, I. hear two nasty racist words. I didn't. even know what they meant, but I knew. what they were intended to mean.

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Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Here we go. Like, that's all I need, you. know? So, I'm like over here fighting. three, four dudes. Men. Men. Yeah. Like, I'm a teenager with uh cowboy hats on. and Levis's that are nice and pressed. with good boots and like I don't care. I'm just I'm just going for it. So, it. was really early when my dad recognized. that I have to do something with that. middleborn secondborn child cuz he's. going to go to prison forever if I don't.

figure out what to do with him. So, he. put me to martial arts, boxing, kickboxing, jiu-jitsu. Um, and uh, and I. really really liked that. What age did. you start that? I. mean I I I was in probably six, seven, eight when I started the shakon karate, then taekwond do then taekwond do to. Japanese jiu-jitsu, Japanese jiu-jitsu. to Hawaiian kempo, Hawaiian kempo to. like I just kept on playing with. different styles. It wasn't until like.

Chuckelle and um Jake Shields came into. my gym and I was like the, you know, I. was 16 years old, big fish in a little pond where I could. do really well against everybody in all. styles of fighting, stand up, and I was. competing. I was traveling around. So, I. thought I was a big deal until. Chocolateell and Jake Shields came in. and uh they mopped the match with me. like I was a petulant, useless child. And I was like, I don't know what just. happened, but wherever they train at, I.

need to go train with them. So, it was I. started training at the the pit with. John Hackleman and Chuck and Gan and. Scott Adams and and that was uh. Glover Terra, you know, guys that became. UFC champions. So, you were you were a. protector. I mean, it's carried on. throughout your entire lifespan. obviously, you know, but it started. protecting your sister. Yeah. and your family and your friends. and then. special forces save our allies sheep dog.

response. I mean there's a ongoing trend. here but um what. you had mentioned earlier in the. interview about a your best friend died. in a car accident. Yeah. And that was the end of your childhood. Yeah. the um. I don't know you know I would I had an. amazing childhood but it was also. wrought with um. disaster there was death in my life.

always you know like Christmas day my. grandma dying um watching my grandpa die. slowly of emphyma you he's a World War. II greatest generation guy so watching. him slowly shrink and and pass um our my. my mom played the piano at church. Caroli Stewart was the worship leader at. that church and um she died in a scuba. diving accident. Her son Nathan was like. my best friend through grade school and. um. her other daughter was my sister's best.

friend. though Nathan and I and um so. when she died, you know, I think I was. maybe 9 10 years old and having somebody. that was such a staple in your life just. gone. You know, she was she was there. every Sunday. I'd see her three or four. days a week as she's dropping Nathan off. to our house as she'd go run the errands. in town cuz they kind of lived out a. little bit. And um and then I don't see. Nathan anymore. And then you know that. these are formative memories of like.

okay how do how do you death is so. prevalent and life is so finite. Um and. then when I was 15. we were uh these are great kids. When I. say they're going to parties they're. like going to Christian after Bible. study parties. Like there was no. drinking. There is no there are young. men behind a steering wheel which is a. very dangerous thing and uh trying to. pass one of their friends on uh on a. turn and somebody came around the turn.

and they had a a head-to-head collision. with another car. You know Jordan was. giving his little brother Jared CPR and. um that was the last night I saw Jared. obviously and I didn't see Jordan for a. decade. Like we couldn't see each other. I couldn't I didn't want to see him. He. didn't want to see me. Like it was. literally just the end. And walking up, you know, carrying that casket as a pole. bearer and knowing that like my. childhood friend is here and you know,

push it in the back of that. go take it. up to the top of the Atascadero cemetery. and um you know the that dirt going on. the top of that coffin not just. literally sealed him but like sealed. childhood like the age of innocence is. over. Yeah. And um from that moment for the. next 15 years I was a uh a force. uh a thing without purpose and a thing.

without direction which is a really. dangerous thing. Yeah. A young man without purpose man. Yeah. We say that a lot today too now. Yeah. In all aspects. But um what got. you what got you interested? I mean your. dad was a Sounds like he was a very good. narcotics cop. Yeah. Well, a peak war on drugs. Mhm. You know, this is a Pablo Escobar and. the cartels, the syndicated criminal. organizations have finally like.

legitimacy in a way that we are just now. understanding where, you know, they're. bribing people as lobbyists have. influence over people. The cartels had. influence over governments, you know. So. they controlled Colombia up to Mexico, all through Central America, North, South America. And um. in uh an operation very similar to like. Fast and Furious, my dad and his team, this narcotics task force, steal an.

entire plane of cocaine from Pablo. Escobar in Costa Rica. They bring it to. the United States. They distribute the. cocaine pallets. These are pallets of. cocaine. And uh I remember walking into. St. Louis Bispo. My mom, my brother, sister, and I went to Madonna Inn and. grabbed some pies. And we walk into this. storage area and there's two pallets of. cocaine. And my dad, who's a giant, and. all of his colleagues are giants. They're all like 6'5, 66, 300 lb dudes.

They're sitting there with MP5. suppressed. You know, there's a Porsche. and a Lamborghini sitting in this. storage facility. And there's two. pallets of cocaine. And I just hand off. these pies and then we go back home. This this is like all of my memories are. are like this growing up. They took that. cocaine and they gave it to regional. distributors. Those distributors then. gave it to like street dealers and then. in one week they went and arrested all. of the distributors and all of the.

dealers. Like they arrested hundreds of. these people on the whole entire West. Coast. They didn't lose a single gram of. cocaine. Wow. You know, this is um they're good. Wow. And uh this is also when meth was. starting to really explode on the West. Coast and uh my my dad had a background. in chemistry and he started recreating. different ways to cook meth. Like we had. like big huge glass beers like a huge. chemistry sets in my house. I'm like if. only people understood that my dad was.

cooking meth. Um, and the laws that we. know now about how much um, Nyquil you. can buy all came from that era of law. enforcement guys figuring out, well, if. you have this much Nyquil and you have. this much um, like if you're using. Smurfs to go and buy all these different. ingredients. So, they they added. limitations as to how much you could buy. of what type of chemicals to be able to. produce or massproduce meth. I was like, my dad, wow, it's sick. Did. you realize the significance of all.

that? Not at the time. No. No. I was I am dumb. and I was even more dumb back then. Man, that's really that's interesting. I'll bet he's I bet your dad's got some. really good stories on. you. Did you wild man? Like we're just. at Shot Show. You know, he's he's like. the most gregarious. This is not the the. dad that I grew up in the 80s, right? like the the grandpa that he is to my. son where you know he's teaching my son. how to shoot his precision rifle and. he's my son puts his finger on the.

trigger a little bit early doesn't have. a sight pitcher yet and he's like hey. hold on there Rolo um you know your. middle name's Michael you're my namesake. u we never put our finger on the trigger. unless we're actively engaged in a. target I was like wait a second you. kicked me in the head at this moment. right here I remember you kicking me and. he's like well it's different out. He. was like, "I got it, Dad." But knock it. off. Uh now he's just like the most He. and my mom are the sweetest. Uh like. spending time with Mike and Paula is.

nobody comes away with that. Like if you. go to their house, they're cooking for. you a gigantic huge meal. You know, as. you watch Tulie come onto the property. Um you're going to the back patio and. shooting out precision rifle a few. hundred meters. You like that is just. the most inclusive family environment. And uh now they're just the sweetest. people. You know, you you had mentioned also. that uh you became pretty crafty because. of your dad. Yeah. As a kid. Yeah. Breaking into cars, using slim gyms.

Yeah. What age did that start? I mean, I had slim gyms like in my room. Uh, I was. I was probably 10 or 11 when I went into. the church parking lot. during a week Bible study and I opened. up every single car in the parking lot. I just for the act of knowing that I. could break into every car in there and. I took things out of their glove box and. I set it on the seat. So, the pastor,

Tom Gatis, he uh and Woody Shoemaker, who is the youth pastor, um they're. like, everybody comes out. They see that. all their cars are broken into. And uh. you know, I'm just sitting here like, you know, like I don't I don't know what. happened. Like I don't know what. happened to these cars. Like a ghost. broke in there. And Woody Shoemaker, who. is a former Navy Seal, he's like my. youth pastor, he's like, "Tim, come over. here." I was like, "Yes, sir." He's. like, "Uh, you breaking these cars?". Like, "Yeah." He's like, "What'd you do. that for?" Like I just needed to know. that I could. Um like my dad taught me.

how to do it. Like this is 10. Um me and. my friend Auggie Gaw would take. our repelling gear. Like we're. teenagers. We would cut holes into roofs. of commercial buildings and repel in. there to figure out that we could steal. stuff out of there. The statute of. limitations I'm fairly certain is. expired. So like I'm not breaking your. laws now just for the act of doing it. And you know, my my dad teaching us how. to go up and talk to anybody about.

anything and be able to like break down. barriers of like how soon you can like, you know, make contact with somebody to. actually touch them to to break down. another barrier like to find out things. about them and to build rapport. Like he. could walk up to a stranger and as an. undercover police officer convince that. stranger to sell him drugs that would. send him to jail for forever. That's a. skill. that he taught all of us. And the skills of breaking into vehicles. or breaking into houses or like how to.

get a warrant or how to like change a. narrative to tell a certain story. Like. these were things that we grew up. We're. also a very Socratic household. My mom. called us living room lawyers. We would. sit down. My dad would pick a topic and. we'd argue. You'd force you to pick a. side and then you'd have to defend and. argue that side um whether you agreed. with it or not. hidden and this is us at. like 6 7 8 9 10 years old. Wow. So critical thinking was. was uh definitely celebrated in your.

house. very much so. And uh. you know by the time. you start figuring out kind of who you. are at 18 I became I went to EMT school. and and the fire academy to become a. firefighter. Uh, and dad is still. shaping, you know, my my brother now is. a police officer. He's 21. I'm 18. I'm. uh working at the Tasker Fire. Department. My brother's working, I.

think, for his first one was St. Louis. Bismo PD. And um. still being shaped like we're not men. yet. Like frontal lobe is not developed. And my dad is that first time that I. came home from a a mass casualty. incident. You know, I'm covered in dirt. and blood. I'm I'm I'm shaking. And uh. you know, he's like, "Hey, go hop in the. shower before you talk to your mom." I'm. like, "I'm fine. I'm just going to go to. bed." He's like, "Go take a shower." I. didn't realize that I was covered in. blood and shaking and crying and.

couldn't even talk. I didn't remember. any of this. I remember just walking. through the door and my dad go telling. me to go take a shower. And um you know, he had already seen everything. He. already knew what what hell was like and. he was preparing his family for a real. world that uh that he knew would. ultimately have to experience. You know, he didn't know that 911 was going to. happen. You know what? So, you became a. firefighter at age 18. That's right. How long were you a firefighter for?

Three years until I could go to the. police academy. No kidding. Yeah. So, so you knew Did you know when you. became a firefighter it was going to be. temporary? Yeah. Did you enjoy it? I I did. It was. um It was really hard work. Uh not in. the way that physically hard. I love. that part of it. I loved being um. on a vehicle rescue and you know, cutting doors open and uh I building. fires. I loved the the violence of fire.

Um. made a lot of mistakes cuz I was young. and dumb, you know. got some people hurt. because I wanted to push push more than. I should have. Um like melted literally. melted my helmet. Um my helmet if you go. to the task or fire firefighter 42 that. was me. Um you see like I heard these. pops and bubbles and that was my my. helmet that was melting and popping the. plastic on the top. Um, the thing that was hard was, you know,

going to. a domestic violence call and finding, you know, a kid in an oven and not being. able to like that guy did it. Like I. know that guy did it and like my job is. not to be a witness to what's happening. My job is to provide medical aid to. what's there. It's the police officer's. job. So I always felt constrained and my. hands tied as to what should I should. have been doing. But similarly, had I. been a police officer, I my.

view of justice would be for me to beat. that dude to death. So that probably. wasn't in alignment either. I don't. know. I still figuring it out. Yeah. There's a serial killer in St. Louis. Bispo, California named Rex Krebs. And I. was growing up when he was kidnapping. women and they were just disappearing. And I was working at a bar called the. library in St. and Louis Bispo like. Chuck and and uh and Scott, they were. running it. So, you literally had the. best fighters on the planet as bouncers.

and then. um and this then this idiot like uh bar. backing and carrying out trash. But I. remember at the end of the night, these. girls like I could smell fear from them. They were so terrified to walk to make. that walk home from the bar back to. their homes, not knowing if they were. going to be the next girl that would. just disappear. And I thought that that. was the, you know, there's an era of. Silence of the Lambs where Jodie Foster. is hunting this this unknown murderer.

That was the embodiment of evil. Like. that is what evil really was. And it. wasn't until 911 that I saw what evil. could be at scale. And so I wanted to. hunt these type of serial killers. I. wanted to hunt this type of evil because. I thought it was the most evil thing. that I could see that could exist. And. then then I saw a girl in a polka dot. dress look out a window of a building. that's on fire that she went into early.

because she was a single mother and she. wanted to get off early so she could. pick up her kids from school. and she's. trying to make this decision about if. she's going to jump to her death or burn. alive. And her last act of of conscious. thought is to hold her dress down as she. jumps to her death. Um, and I. wanted to kill everyone that had. anything to do with that. That changed everything, man. Man,

remember that? Remember that falling. man? that guy that just jumped out head. first like he was a professional. skydiver in a Delta position just uh. tracking down towards the ground. Yeah, I do. So, how old were you when. 9/11 happened? I was uh 21. 21. So, you're just about to go into the. police academy? I was uh in grad school and um Yep. going to the police academy.

You were in it? Mhm. What? So what happened then? Finished school and uh. and over the course of 18 months I went. to the recruiter's office on 911. Mhm. There were a thousand people in line. Thousand people standing there trying to. talk to a recruiter. And um nobody was. there, you know. It was like So I came. back a few times. It took it took 18. months for me to ultimately get a.

18 x-ray contract to go and try to it. was a it was a fast track to become a. special forces guy and um looked at. every branch you know was trying to. figure out how to get to Marsok how do I. get buds how do I get to green berets it. was what is the fastest route to get me. on a plane to the desert. so you picked you picked special forces. right yep. How how long did it take for you to ship. out. the uh to training?

Yeah, that 18-month. timeline to finally get the 18 x-ray. contract. So 2003 is uh. when I left. Um and then that pipeline, you know, that year and a half pipeline. of uh. basic training to infantry school to. airborne school to um this big huge. traitter called SOPC and then to. selection and then post selection to um.

small unit tactics, another tritter. called SOPs 2, then to small unit. tactics, then to phase 2 3 4 5 6 uh to. Seir School to the dawning of the Green. Beret, then the day I graded graduated. I walked and uh another weird. rare anomaly I had been they had been. tracking. I'd performed really well. through training and uh I also was a. top 10 fighter on the planet when I.

enlisted. You were already top 10 on the planet. Yeah. [ __ ]. I just won like the largest middleweight. tournament on the planet, the extreme. cage fighting championship. uh that Dennis King, Mayhem Miller, uh. Ryan Nart, me. It was like eight of the. best fighters on the time. I was the. lowest ranked guy in that whole entire. tournament I won. U that was just a few. months before I enlisted and um so they. had. been following me and when I graduated I.

went to the directly to the CRF which is. something that should never happen. What's supposed to happen is you go to. an ODA, you spend two, three years at an. ODA, you get a bunch of experience, um. you go to some schools, then um you go. to this selection course um and a must. requirement to go to the CIF and CRF. which is Safar and then from there. you're. you go to a selection to go to this.

unit. Okay, that's what should always happen. That's. not what happened with me. So, I was. this young child that uh knew nothing. about the military, that knew nothing. about war, knew nothing about the army. that was then going to a special. missions unit. Damn, bad plan. Well, let's let's. rewind. Let's rewind. So, let's let's. let's. skip basic training. Let's skip. everything up to selection. That's how. was that was that a challenge for you? No, it wasn't. No, b you just breeze right through it.

Yeah, that I mean that post 911, you would have had to walk into. the barracks. in the middle of night like a ninja with. a lead pipe and smashed dudes knees in. to have them quit. Mhm. We in our selection class, there was not. a single quit. There's not one voluntary. withdrawal. So now if there's 4 or 500.

people that go to selection. 3 400 of them quit and then of the. remaining one to 200 you know maybe 20. or 30 end up getting selected. Mhm. Um four to eight out of a 100red and. then post 911. not one quitter. Not one dude was like ringing a bell. Not one dude is is saying uh that he. wants out. Like you'd literally have to.

kill him to have them. Dude dude's feet. were falling off and they were taking. super glue and gluing the bottom of. their feet back on to to pass team week. Where were the majority of these guys. from? Where are they coming from? That class there were a ton of collegiic. athletes. They from all over the world. Ton from Florida, ton from Texas, and. ton from California. Um like of the 90. like there's 6 600 something dudes.

that went through the. SOPs and ultimately the 88 that were. selected in our class to go forward. Once you pass special forces assessment. and selection which is a 23. 28 day. hard at um then you get selected to go. to the Q course. The Q course is a year. to a year and a half long pipeline of. training you how to be a green beret. and then when you finish that pipeline.

then you get to dawn your green beret. and go to a team and then when you get. to your team they tell you that you know. nothing you start all over again. But that um. you know from that gigantic population. of. people that first were at SOP C to the. 88 guys that ultimately got selected. The 88 came from. like the they were high level athletes. from all over the the nation, but most. of them. Florida, Texas, and California.

88 people got selected. Yeah. That round. Yep. That's a lot. It's a ton. That's a lot. That's. highest percentage that they've ever. had. Is it really? Is it still to this day, man? That's. It wasn't that it was easy for me. It. was easy for us. There's nothing that it. it was the environment and we'd also. been together from like this group of 18. x-rays had been together from basic. training to infantry school to airborne. school. um to through SOPC and we had learned.

none of us had ever been in the military. before. So we didn't know how to do. army. We just knew how to cheat. Mhm. And we cheated everything. And we. we figured out communication systems and. how to, you know, tap codes and symbols. and we had watches for when the the. cadray were going to be coming in to. check you. So like the whole entire. barracks asleep. You're not allowed to. be sleeping, but everybody's sleeping. but two people on either end at the the. two edges of the windows where the or. the doors where the doors are cracked. out a little bit and they're looking. out. They had like set up things that we. could hear the guys walking. So the.

moment that we heard that sound, the. whole entire barracks would get up and. guys would start like fixing their rucks. sacks. like we're breaking every single. rule. You weren't allowed to run on the. roads. We ran every road. Um so with the 88, it's biggest class to. ever graduate selection or to get. selected. Highest percentage of graduates, highest percentage with that amount of. motivated men to go and protect the. country. What What do you think I mean. the criteria had to be had to be upped?

They had to level it up, right? the from. from what it usually is with that with. that. no the the standard never changes. the the the the mustpass gates. Mhm. uh which which are very close-held. um. not secrets but like the things that you. have to do to be selected. Uh those. don't change like you you have to run. this far for this fast. You have to run. this sprint for this fast. You have to. be able to carry this much weight for.

this long. You here's the grading. criteria during team week. here's like. so like of these these variety of ma. mustpass events when you get through. those gates and you're like checking as. you go that doesn't change. So like then. like you might have five people that. graduate 10 people that graduate or 100. people that graduate but everybody has. to pass that those gates but if you pass. I guess what I'm asking is if you pass. does that necessarily guarantee you a. slot that you're going to be selected? No. So that's what kind of what I'm.

asking is usually there's. but this is this is peak war. Yeah. So there was what year is this? 2004. Okay. So there's definitely So they're. expanding at this point. They're expanding and diet guys are. dying. Okay. And um and they're dying a lot. Okay. So they were they were needed. Yeah. That's what I was getting at. I was. wondering if they if they had if they. had the slots to fill 88. They knew. they're going to.

Yeah, that's that's dark. But um this is war. and you know in 2004 when you're looking. at Fallujah and Romani and Solder City. um this is uh. the first 10 years of GWAT from you know. 2002 to 2012 like it was very dissimilar. to the second 10 years of GWAT. Those. first 10 years that that was war like. those were battles block by block door. by door. um lots of killing and um on.

both sides and Green Beretss were. carrying a big burden of that because. they were the first ones in Afghanistan. They were the first ones that were in. the big gunfights. They were also the. ones that were, you know, by with and. through advice, assisting and. accompanying these militant fighters. because that that's the special forces. way was to to work with your your. aligned. fighting force. So those guys were. getting hemmed up and they needed help.

Problem was 18 x-rays. We died way more than everyone else. Can you describe what an X-ray is? Uh, normally to go to the Green Beretss, you. are in whatever you're in the 82nd, you're in the 101st, you're in Ranger. Regiment, and you have are an E4, an E5, and you put in your packet to go to. selection. That has always been the way. They've only done the 18 X-ray program.

one other time, which was during. Vietnam, where you take a a guy. qualified off the street. So, he has a. high ASVAB score, he has a high GT. score, he has a high PT score, and um. you put him into a special forces. selection pipeline. And so, they're SF. babies. They've never spent a day in the. army, but they have on paper all the. qualifications that they could. potentially later be a Green. Beret.

All of the guys coming from the regular. army from Combat Arms, they they have to. have that same GT score. They have to. have that same ASVAB score. They have to. have the same PT score, but the most. important thing is they have experience. and that had always been the. requirement. You had to spend 3, four, 5. years in the army. Then you could go to. selection. The 18 x-ray program uh. bypassed that. So, you know, a college. athlete and that's why there are so many. collegiic athletes in that class cuz you. had to, you know, you had to be smart. You had to have a high GT score and a. high ASVAB score and you had to have a.

very high PT score. You uh then got this. contract that promised you if you pass. passed basic training, infantry school, airborne school, and SOP C, which was. the bigotritter, then you could go to. directly to selection. And uh but we. died I think at twice the rate of. regular army green berets. No kidding. Yeah. Damn, man. Young and dumb. Yeah. What? not invincible, you know, with going through the SF uh.

baby program, you get to you get through selection, you get to the Q course, correct? What. how are you. how are you received there as a guy off. the street who was pipelined right in? Yeah, they hated us, did they? Yeah. Um they. How do you know they hated you? Well, they tell they told us they hated us. Um,

that was pretty direct. Like, I hate. you. You don't deserve to be here. Um, and to their to their credit, they're. doing a tour as instructors, like the the NCO development. You would. go to a team for 3 to 5 years and then. you would go to swick to um the special. warfare training group and you would. become an instructor teaching at one of. the different phases, one of the. different schools, Halo school, sniper. school, scuba school and you do, you.

know, your your two three-year tour as. an instructor and then you go back as a. senior NCO back to the ODA. So now you. have ODA time, you have instructor time. So you've really mastered a craft and it. made a lot of sense during peace time. But these guys that are coming off these. teams, um, you don't have a choice of. when the timeline is for you to go to. Swick to teach. Maybe they just got. back. Maybe they're going to miss a. deployment because they got orders to go. and teach. And now they're furious.

because they're missing the war. Now. they're furious because their brothers. are over there fighting and dying. And. they're sitting here looking at a. 22-year-old kid that just came out of. college that thinks he knows everything. and uh and wants to go and be a warrior. and that guy's been in on an ODA for. five, six years and has during peace. time and has done everything perfect so. he can go and be a war fighter and now. he's sitting there talking to a. snot-nosed brat, you know, like I get. it, man.

Yep. Yep. I think that was my. generation, too. I was I was uh right. there with you and and. yeah, that had to be I didn't really. agree with it, you know. Uh we're all. here to protect the country, right? But uh I do understand it. And you know, the the period between Vietnam. and 9/11, there were very few. Panama, Grenada, you know, Desert Storm. 1, which we didn't even have a part. There wasn't there wasn't much there. wasn't much uh to spread around. Y.

and so so I get it. But what did you. think of of the Q course? Was that a. challenge for you? No. No [ __ ]. I loved it. I loved every second of it. I love Sears School. Um we. were chomping at the bit to get done. Um I took accelerated language school. I. tested out early. I just wanted to how. fast can I get that green bray on, get. to a team, get on a plane. That was the.

only thing all of us wanted to do. All. of us were fighting and positioning or. going down to um the companies and. asking, "Hey, do do you guys have like. your deployment orders? Do you know. which day you guys are leaving?" Because. all of us the day that we graduate, all. of us would be requesting to go directly. to that company because they're the next. one that are going to be bouncing. And um so like all of us are like. positioning and fighting for a chance to. get into the fight. Yeah. So did you have any hang-ups? Did you. fail anything? No, nothing. No, just no. Clean first.

first through everything. Um, funny sheer story. Um, one of the guys that had been. medically recycled was Could you could. you please describe what SEIR school is, what the purpose of it is? Every special. operation and aviation unit sends their. guys to this sear school and there's. different phases and levels of it but. the one that special operations goes to. it's a survival evasion resistance and.

escape. Um and uh during this we also. included peace time government detention. which is if you're captured by a. non-state or state actor and and you're. being held how do you navigate the diff. which is different than like if you're a. P being held by a combatant. So during the school they teach you. survival like how do I forge for food? How do I purify water? How do I set. traps? Um, and then on the evasion side,

if somebody's chasing you, whether it's. in a rural area or an urban area, how do. you escape? Um, the resistance portion. is during interrogations and torture, how do you stay um in the the technique. is inside of your circle. So, they they. tell you these are the things that. you're supposed to know and these are. the things you're supposed to say and. these are the things that you're. supposed to do. And how do you stay. inside of that during, you know, really. uncomfortable physical treatment? Um,

which I think now they call torture, but. you know, you're training people. I hate. that people throw stones at training. That is hard. Like how do you prepare. people for war without it being like. war? And the last portion is escape. When uh so that's SE school and uh it's, you know, it's a couple of months. the guy that had been recycled, which. was one of my friends and teammates that. had gone through all these phases to, he. was working with the Cadray and was. learning like all the different escape.

and evasion routes. So, there were lanes. that were designated designated to each. of the teams. He told us which lane we. were going to be on, and I went and I. stole M boxes and I went out and I. plotted a 10-digit grid coordinates and. I buried boxes of MREs during my. evasion. Totally cheating. like this is. not allowed and I'm not recommending. anybody do this but this is what we did. because we knew like we see the guys. that were that were coming out of Sears. school you know they'd lose 30 40 50 lbs.

during seir school their cheeks are sunk. in their eyes are sunk in the like and. they're about to go to a team it's one. of the very last things that you do and. their bodies are broken we want to go to. war so not only did I want to graduate. but I wanted to graduate physically. capable of going to a team to. immediately hop on a plane to go. overseas so the motivation was kind of. pure but the route was very unethical. Mhm. So, we borrow we borrow these MREs. There's 11 guys that are all 18 X-rays. that I'm all friends with and we have. one Air Force crew guy that's on our.

team. And um the we finish the survival. portion. We get into the evasion and the. you're very motivated to not get caught. during evasion because the sooner you. get caught, the sooner you go into the. concentration camp. So if you survive a. week, that is an extra week that you are. not in the concentration camp. If you're. caught on day one, you spend 6 days and. however many hours that you were. captured early in the concentration camp. getting beaten, getting waterboarded,

getting put in torture positions and, you know, paying isometric positions, getting starved. Um, so but if you stay. out, how long can you survive during. that week with the limited food that. you're going to have while you're. running? um and you know they're hunting. you with thermals and dogs and all the. things and they're trying to you know. manipulate in this lane that you're. training. So we buried MREs. We go to these 10 digit grid. coordinates. We dig them up and uh I s I. hand out these MREs and the other guys.

like sick this is so awesome you know. way to go. Uh me and my friend Brian are. the ones that went out and buried them. And this Air Force guy's like where did. you get these? Like I buried them. How'. they get like how do you know that this. was where we're going to be? Like I was. told by, you know, somebody that's. working as support right now that this. is was going to be our lane. So we went. and buried our food here. And they're. like, "That's cheating." I was like, "Is. it?" Like, "I don't I don't think it. is." And uh to his credit, he stuck to.

what he thought was right and he. wouldn't eat any of them. And uh and we. helped even though we were fed, we. helped him forge for food. We're getting. deer corn, you know, we were like. finding turtles and snakes. That's why. they call us snake eaters. Uh this the. training area, it's like very swampy and. marshy, so there's not there's not a lot. of great food. We're eating pine nuts, you know, we're making pine needle tea. for vitamin C. Like, we're doing. everything we can to help this dude, even though there's plenty of calories. over there that he wants nothing to do, right?

Hold on, let me finish my Snackers bar. real quick. Yep. And uh but again, to his credit, he does. that whole week and there's I mean, there's food for us all the time. And. they bring us uh a roadkill. It was like. a dead raccoon or a dead deer. And most. people after not eating for five days, they would just skin this thing, gut. this thing, throw it, stew it, and. they'd be so pumped to have a little bit. of protein. And we're like, that's kind. of icky. So, you know, the cader were. like, "What's that?

What's going on here, man?" Like, "What. are you guys doing?". Well, during indo, which is the most. dangerous portion, like when you're. initially captured, Mhm. it's it's where most casualties occur. Uh, you know, if you look like Shugart. and Gordon during Blackhawk Down, the. thing that they were trying to save the. crew from was that initial capture that. that wave of emotion that happens. happens on a battlefield. That's when. people get killed and don't get moved. into captivity. So like the longer and. more peaceful that that transition can.

be, the the higher the chance of. survival. So they make that that that. indo when they're taking you in to be. very intense. During SER school, there's. lots of beatings happen. There's, you. know, people are getting knocked out and. teeth and blood and all the things. And. when we finally at the end of that week, we go to make our link up to get. evacuated, which we're. uh betrayed and we get captured by the. adversary force. It's at the end of the. week. They force you to go to this. linkup and we all get blackged, all 12.

of us. And you know, they're pulling. your hood off. They're smacking you. like, "What's your name? Where are you. from? What unit are you? What are you. doing here?" And they're going down the. line. And the moment they pull up that. Air Force's that guy's hood, he get I. all of us, we hear him start screaming. They had food buried. They had food. buried. They had food. This whole entire. time, this whole week they've been. eating. And the crazy intense indo phase. where like this whole camp is just beats.

and screams and slaps. You could hear a. pin drop. Everything stops. The guy goes, "What' you say?" He says, "My team had food buried on their lane.". And immediately they separate all 12 of. us. They pull us from everybody. And for. a week during resistance, um, their interrogations were trying to. find legitimate real information,

which was where was the food, who had. the food, how did you get the food, and. they had one guy telling all of the. information that he knew, and they had. 11 guys that stayed in their circle. Damn. At the end of this, 11 dudes. graduated and one guy failed for an. integrity violation. He got recycled. All 11 of us stayed in our circle and. didn't break for 11 for the whole entire. time. And at the very final moment, um,

I'm not going to give away the the the. final day of SER school. It's like a big. emotional event. ID cards come out from the instructor's. necks and uh you see like that military. DoD CAC card and they're no longer. they're not sitting there like. evil torturing pricks. They're now. Sergeant so and so and you have. graduated and they the whole entire. cadre comes and gets the 11 of us and. they're like hey we need to talk to you. guys. The ID cards are hanging around.

their neck and the and we're like, "Yeah, okay. Seriously, what happened? You need. to tell us what occurred during evasion. week and now during a resistance week. where you guys one all had the same. story the whole entire time." And uh. like it was fascinating because it. proved the tech the things that they. were teaching actually worked in real. interrogations. And they had real. interrogators coming in to interrogate.

this class, the 11 of us, to get out. real information. And all of us knew. that if we me if we messed up, all of us. are going to get recycled at best. Worst. kicked out of the Q course. And uh and all 11 of us, like we look at. each other and we look back at them, we're like, Donnie the Green Beret is. going to be in 5 weeks. When I put on my. Green Beret, you can be there. And the. moment I get my Green Beret, I will talk. to you about what l what what this. looked like. Good call. And all of them were there in. every single it proved that like their.

TTPs, their POIs, their points of. instruction, their tactical training. points were legitimate and truly worked. in interrogation and they this was. turned into a case study. A perfect case. study. Yep. Nice. Well, you know, don't ratch. your team out. Was a good lesson. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. You. know, that might be the biggest. integrity violation of all. Yeah. But. wow, no [ __ ]. Yeah.

Well, what did they say when you told. them? They uh they changed rules where any. student that was in a support role for. the cadray was never they they like. siloed information that was relevant to. the training. So that the the students. that the trainees that were going. through the course never had access to. the cadray information. So like, you. know, they'd hang outside of the cadre. rooms. So they they changed a bunch of. rules to to limit and silo information,

but uh they were they were thrilled that. this that this stuff worked. That's amazing. That's amazing. So So you get done with. Sierra School. Where are you going next? So I went to Charlie Company um for. Third Battalion, Seven Special Forces. Group. It was the. at the time it was the Sith, the. commander in extremist force and every. How did you wind up? Can you explain. what the SIF is? Yeah.

First, cuz not a lot of people know. about that. No. Uh the CIF, every special forces. group takes an area, a region of the. globe. Uh so seventh group handles South. America. Third and fifth group balance. between Africa and the Middle East. um. first and 10th group between Europe and. the Asian Pacific. So regionally, we. always have four deployed companies that. are in that region. So you have a.

special forces company that's in South. America. You have a special forces. company that's in Africa. You have a. special forces company that's in the. Philippines or on in Japan or in Europe. And so that's that is a crazy. concentration of talent and firepower. That's for deployed all of the time. Um they were tasked with hostage rescue. and counterterrorism. So you would go to special schools and.

special selection to be selected to go. to the kiff. Um at the time the. commander in extremist force. So you had. the combatant commander, which was, you. know, the four-star guy that was in. charge of that region of the planet. He. had his own special operations company. that was his. So that was. if. the cartels ran into Bogota, Colombia,

and took over the embassy, you had a. company of special forces guys that were. standing by. This is why like uh. Benghazi was so infuriating to so many. Green Berets is because when that was. happening, there was a company of. special forces guys that were sitting on. a plane. Like just imagine, you know, there was what 12 GRS dudes that were. saving. two different compounds, the the. Department of State compound and the.

agency compound. uh what would have. happened if you dropped 60 Green Berets. into this fight? You're like, "The whole. thing's over.". Y. you take one ODA, the whole thing's. over. But uh it's like there's a lot of. survival guilt in that. But that that. was the CIF. They were a hostage rescue. for. Where were those guys sitting? Um they they were a two-hour flight. I think Glover was one of those guys. That's right. You know,

you take Mike Glover and a company of. Mike Glovers and drop them into that. firefight, dude. Completely different outcome. Yeah. Infuriating. Yeah. Phone gets ultimately somebody. picks up a phone and says, "No, those. guys can't go.". Yep. Hope that person burns in hell. I'm. sure they will. Yeah. Me, too. Yeah. So, that's the CIF. Um, and. so how did Hold on, hold on. Let's.

backtrack cuz the CIF So the CIF is. basically it's a it's a hostage rescue. team. Yep. Um, very advanced tactics. Very I mean just to get in the door over. there. How did you get in the door of. the CIF? Yeah. As a new guy. Yeah, I should have been there. An SF baby new guy nonetheless. John McY, uh, former Delta Force operator, um, amazing war fighter, storied career at.

the unit. Um, he was my boss. He was my. first team sergeant, and he had been. kind of paying attention to some guys. going through the Q course cuz he knew. we're about to go to war, and he, this was also the CIF's first. deployment to combat. uh they had missed. all the other rotations because the the. combatant commander hadn't released them. to go into non-theater conflict. So, he.

had kept them kind of. unfairly saying like, "No, no, I need my. CIF. You you guys are my under my. control." Like, you you had this um. competition about who could control. which units were going to be in what. battle space. And he didn't want to. release his elite fighting force to go, you know, from South America and go. fight. So, they missed the first few. rotations. Gotcha. And they were just like they were. ravenous to get into the fight. And um.

you can train. tactics. into young men preparing for war. Um but. putting the will to fight. and. that dog in somebody, some people have. that and it's really hard to. artificially train that into somebody. I. think the Marines do a really great job. of of planting that that dog in.

somebody. Uh. this the special forces regiment. It's an it's a group of intellectuals. Like yes, they're war fighters, but they. also are kind of ambassadors and they. they they work a lot with different. governments and the embassy and um you. know it's a joint inter agency multi-ep. department. It's it's kind of a complex. world that special forces works in. And.

John knew that we're going to go to war. and he wanted he wanted a guy that had. the dog on him. I can think of hundreds of teammates. that have it and they were the guys that. you wanted to be the first guy through. the door. you know, the Brian Hall, the. Jeremy Haskell, the Ben Rios, like those. guys kicking a door, anything on the. other side of that door is going to be. melt with with speed, surprise, and. violence faction, Helen Fury. And that's.

a hard thing like to put into somebody. So, John had. knew my fighting background, knew my. hunting background, knew my shooting. background, and then had followed me. through the Q course. And um I was also. moonlighting as a as a bouncer in bars. in Fateville, North Carolina where I was. going to school and I was also fighting. um moonlighting fighting like while I. was going through the Q course. I was. still training and fighting as a. professional fighter. No [ __ ]. Yeah. Why were you doing that? I'm.

sorry. We're got to go down this rabbit. hole. Why would you put yourself. I'm just curious. The dog. Why would you put yourself into. a situation that could potentially take. you out of your ultimate goal, which is. fighting for the country? Because it would have been relatively. easy for that to happen. the the. young men think that they are invincible. and um. and the balance of me wanting to keep my.

my sword sharp. and keep that like ability to fight, you. know, fighting, gunfighting, knife. fighting, brick fighting, um fist. fighting, it's all fighting, you know, like you you you take some. person that's good fighting at fighting. and you you you give them a battle axe. or you give him a club. Like that dude. is still like really dangerous. Well, it's because he's a fighter first. So. like the heart of that warrior is a is a. very powerful thing regardless of what. tool he has. Like I I am, you know, in.

this room no more or less dangerous. because I have a gun or I don't have a. gun. Like I, you know, kill him w. without anything. And I wanted. one that don't show my camera. No, I. like him. That illusion that you are invincible as. a young man. Uh but you feel invincible. Like I remember feeling invincible like. you can't you can't hurt me. You can't.

kill me. You can't stop me from. graduating. You can't stop me from. making it to war. You can't stop me from. going to this unit. And you definitely. can't stop me in a fight. Like to me fighting was just playing. um. you know was I was making money on the. side and I was keeping my sword sharp. and I was keeping you know the the. ability to do violence at at an acute. point so I wanted to keep doing it and I. did it all the way through my whole. entire career. Makes sense. I figured that's what you were going to.

say you know. Yeah. Would you do that again if you were if. you had the wisdom you had now? No. So John John McY. Yeah. He hand selected you to come into. the SIF. Yep. And uh Sergeant Major Aquendo, who is the company Sergeant Major, when. he brought me in, um. he he pushed back real hard and uh and. he was right. But man, John was a force.

He's one of those guys in garrison. He. is not a fun human to work for. Um, he. is not a fun guy to to be a subordinate. to. Um, he is definitely not one that. like you want as your personal mentor. about how to be a good human, but you put John McY in a case in glass. that says break in case of war violence. and you break that, he is one of the. greatest war fighters to like walk. during GWAT. And um the.

we were a hammer in that first. deployment. I'll bet. I don't want to get into that. yet, but what year? What year is this? 2005. This Oh [ __ ] So this is like the. height. This is peak. This is the height. So he So John, this is Americans hanging from bridges. burnt alive. This is. like this is peak war. Yeah. This is this is the height. So you. get into the SIF. What? How are you. received?

Not well. Um. the uh. you have to go to the school, this uh this multi-month. hostage rescue school that is a high. tredder. And um so I go to this school, graduate, come back to the team. you know, I. thought I'd be accepted. Um, and we're. weeks PDSS is the pre-eployment site.

survey team has already launched. They've already set up where we're going. to be landing at, where we're going to. be working out of. They're starting to. set up target packages, you know, they're getting we're getting our TS. briefs about what it's going to look. like when we get into the operational. environment. This is before we even. wheels up, you know, and then. I knew nothing, Sean. I like. I had no idea how to order ammo. I had. no idea how to do a forecast. I had no. idea how to pack a pallet. I had all the. things that like while the Q course. taught you this the skills to be a Green.

Beret, they didn't teach you how to be a. good teammate of doing the things of. your job. you know, like um. how to do an inventory of our night. vision, how to like I know how to zero a. gun because I'm an 18 Bravo, but like as. I'm packing out the guns for this. deployment, how many guns am I am I. supposed to take all of our guns? Like. every single dude has 10 different guns, you know? Am I taking 120 guns? Like I.

had no idea what to do. And um. and I had no idea how to ask. I had I. was too um conceited or egotistical to. um. to ask in the right way, which is like, "Hey, can you teach me? I don't know how. to do this." Or find a peer in the. company that could explain how to do it. Because my senior, God bless his heart, Ben was uh he had to do everything.

because he had an idiot for a junior, me, that had no idea how to do anything. So, and he didn't have the time as he's. prepping to go to war to teach me how to. do things cuz he had to do them. He had. to palletize everything cuz I didn't. know how to do it. He had to do and he. didn't have the time pre in peak war. pre-eployment to teach the subordinate. So it just. and uh made it hard. Were you the only new guy? Yeah. That wound up on the stuff.

Y there's another guy Dave. that was that was same age and uh but a. little bit, you know, maybe six months. more experience than me. He and I were. the kind of the only two guys there and. the last two. They never did it again. Yeah. That's a I mean that's a steep. learning curve. I'm Wow. Yeah. When did How when did you figure out, you know, what the significance of being. on a SIFT team was?

I was pulling outside security in Iraq. when. uh. a squadron Delta Force leadership. Dtomaso comes and takes a knee next to. me. He goes, "What are you doing?". And I'm wearing DCUS, like cool, fancy. desert camo that we had altered, you. know. So, like we took our pockets and. moved them up to our sleeves and we put. like spandex shirts underneath our body. armor. Um, complete like unauthorized.

but functional. And I look over this. dude, he's wearing multicam. And none of. us had multicam. And I was like, who the. [ __ ] are you? He's like, I'm Damaso. And I was like, I don't know. who the [ __ ] that is. He's like, "You. didn't answer my question." Like, "I'm. pulling security." He's like, "Where's. your intersecting sector of fire?" I. turn on my laser and like 2 seconds. later, the guy on the right corner of. the building turns on his lasers and our. lasers goes like that. He's like, "All. right, great. Have a great night." And. just gets up and walks away. And I was. like, "Who the [ __ ] was this guy?" You.

know, and we're at a bomb maker's house. for one of Zorqawi's lead henchmen. Like. this the VB IDs that were kind of. plaguing um Baghdad at the time. Like. this was one of those houses. And this. dude just like shows up on target and. like walks up and starts talking to me. And it wasn't until afterwards when I. was like, "Who is this dude?" And they. tell me who this is. And I start. understanding who the units are that are. part of this task force. And then it. like clicks. I was like, "Holy [ __ ] we're the this is the A.

team.". Like this is like the most elite. fighting force on the planet. All 100%. focus focused on one kill capture thing. of one person. the sharpest tool in the. entire arsenal of the American military. was being wielded towards one person. And it was at it was that night that I. was like, "Holy crap." Like, "This is. frightening.". Damn, man. That's when it started to make sense. Very cool. Wow. I still couldn't grasp.

it cuz I'm down. But that that was the. first time where I was like, "Whoa.". Yeah. Yeah. Lucky to be here. Yeah. Didn't deserve to be there. How long were you at the SIF before you. got kicked out the door on deployment? Uh, 3 months. That's it. That's it. Three months. Yep. I got I missed one month of our. premission train up because I was still. in Sphartic.

So I like I missed a portion of so pre. before a special operation unit goes. they they they they look at their metal. task their mission mission essential. task list. These are all the skills that. they're supposed to be able to have to. go and do this mission. So they go and. they rehearse and execute and they're. graded on all of their core tasks before. they go overseas. And that's called your. PMT or premission trainup. And uh. I missed a month of that because I was. in school. So then I get there I finish. the last two months. We have two weeks. off before we ultimately have to show.

back up. They give us, you know, they. gave us like a uh eight days permissive. leave where we got to hang out with our. our families before we went overseas. Are you married at this time? Uh-uh. Were you together? Yeah. How's she taking all this? Um, she's she's such an amazing woman. And uh everybody that comes to her now.

worries like uh how are you dealing with. Tim and Afghanistan right now or in. Israel or Ukraine? And uh she knew what. she signed up for. You know, she she was. at Fort Bragg, North Carolina in 2004, 5. and 6. And she saw her friends coming. back without limbs. She saw her friends. coming back without eyes. She had. friends that deployed and never came. back. You know, she was there on the. green ramp receiving her friends. She's.

such a good good human. When I say. friends, like these weren't boyfriends. They they were just her friends that she. was there to support. And she was so. young. Um and uh. so she she knew. what she actually probably knew better. than I did what it what the cost of war. was because she got there before I did. Yeah. Yeah. So, you guys Okay, so how. did you guys meet? Super creepy.

She uh she was working a government. contract and she was keeping inventory. of. these. secret um devices and every single one. of them has a serial number. And she was. working for a government contracting. company that kept the inventory of all. those things and then reported it back. to the army. and she shows up and I saw. her and I was like, "That's a Russian spy. There's no.

there's no way that that supermodel of a. human exists in this world which is like. you know butt sweat and um ect charges. and pet and no nail lines and you know. like there's guns everywhere and grease. and we're covered in in. carbon from shooting all day and there's. just no possible way. So I I figure out. who she is. Um I kind of like make. friends with some of her friends. I go. up and try to talk to her. As I'm. standing in front of her like this, she.

just like starts turning without. acknowledging that I'm talking to her. So like I kept like adjusting to try to. stay in front of her. As she kept. turning, I was like, "Are you do you not. see me right here?" I'm like, "What's. wrong with you?" And then she just turns. and walks away. Doesn't say anything to. me. And I see her stab a dude that grabs. her leg uh with her stiletto. She. balances on one foot and she's walking. up this ramp. She stabs this guy uh that. that's trying to get her attention and. uh.

I was in love. I was like that's that's. uh that's the woman for me. So I I um I. spend a I have to manipulate a date out. of her. I tell all of her friends that. we're going to be like meeting up at. this time and I tell her a different. time. She shows up early, although a. little bit late. It's fine. But I had. enough of a window that the nobody else. had arrived yet. And as soon as she got. there, this is like the flip phone razor. time. So I preset text messages with all. the recipients. So I hit send and it.

goes out to all of them that dinner's. canceled. And I take her out to dinner. And I go out to dinner with her every. single day. I go on a date with her. every single night all the way up until. I leave. And that was uh my first trip. with her. And then when I was gone, I. had some. ASOC guys, some advanced special. operations spy guys that literally. followed her around Fort Bragg to make. sure that she was a good girl. And she.

was. She was. Yeah. And you guys have been married for 17. years now. Yeah. Congratulations. Wild. What in your opinion is the secret. to a successful marriage? you have to fight. Um, complacency kills. We know that in. combat. And complacency kills a marriage. where you take things for granted about.

the person that you're with. You know, this this person that you you chose to. spend the rest of your life with, but. now you. you know, you let yourself go. you you. get a little bit the dad bod, you know, you um you stop buying flowers, you stop. lighting candles, you stop buying. lingerie, you stop fighting for that. person that you fought for, uh that you. dated, that you courted, that you tried. to sweep off their feet. And um you.

know, now 10 years down the road, you're. you're fat and you know, you're not. sleeping, you're drinking a little bit, you care more about football game than. you do her, you know, like shame on you. you don't deserve her. So like you set. down the sword and when you set down. that sword, that sword's hard to pick up. sometimes. You know, you don't have the. calluses anymore. You don't have the. strength anymore. You don't have the. condition anymore. And it's the same. same way with a marriage where it's like. constant vigilance and intentionality. into your marriage. And um the heart of.

a man is is a is a hard thing. You know, we we can fall in love easy. We can um. you know we have these aspirations and. these dreams. You know I I have to. choose between going overseas and doing. something that I know I was put on this. planet to do or to be present. And I. know I can't be present and look at that. person look at her or my kids in in the. face in the eyes without the things that. I know that I that God put me on this. planet to do. And trying to reconcile.

those two things. The only way that can. happen is with intentionality and um and. discipline. Well, I think that's great advice, man. Thank you. I don't know. I'm still figuring out, though. Hey, well, you're doing a hell of a good. job. There's not too many people running. around out there that can say they've. been married for 17 years. and through all the combat deployments. and the time apart. Yeah, it's all her. Yeah. But, um, last question, then we'll. take a break.

So, you're at the CIF and you find out. you're going to Iraq. Did that hone in your mindset at all? I. mean, that you're you're you're getting. exactly what you asked for. You're going. to war. It it did, but I didn't. appreciate it. Okay. And I didn't. understand what that meant, you know, like I still had John Wayne movies in my. head, you know? I still had Mel Gibson. and Bruce Willis. Like, this is what I.

thought war was going to look like. you. know, as like this barrel-chested. freedom fighter as I'm like covered in. the enemy's blood as I'm standing there. with an American flag behind me, you. know, like that this is I don't know. the the the mind of a young man that. knew nothing. Um what I thought war was. going to be like and. what war was like was very different. And those were the delta between those. two things are indescribable. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, on that. note, let's take a break. When we come.

back, we'll pick up in Baghdad. All right. When I first started this whole. podcasting thing, an online store was. about as far from my mind as you can. get. And now, most of you already know. this, but I'm selling Vigilance Elite. gummy bears online. We actually have an. entire merch collection that's coming. soon. And let me tell you, it is so easy. because I'm using a platform that is. extremely userfriendly, and that's.

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That's all lowercase. Go to. shopify.com/shan. now to grow your business no matter what. stage you're in. That's. shopify.com/shan. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. A lot of us wish we had more time, but. time for what? If time was unlimited, how would you use it? The best way to. squeeze that special thing into your. schedule is to know what's important to. you and make it a priority. Therapy can.

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charge. Learn to make time for what. makes you happy with BetterHelp. Visit. betterhelp.com/shan. today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp hp.com/shan. All right, Tim, we're back from the. break. We're getting ready to go into. your first deployment with the SIF team. under Shrek McI. Yeah. In Baghdad. That's right. Yep. We first.

went to Al-Assad and um we're we're. there with uh the SEALs and um. we were logistically constrained with. the amount of air that we had. Mhm. Um number of targets in this time period. were plentiful and uh everybody fighting. doing a mobile a vehicle assault was. very difficult from that spot. Um, so we. re relocated a few weeks later from.

al-Assad into Baghdad and uh we're in. the international the green zone kind of. on the row of of the the joint special. operation command houses and uh once we. tied in with them it went from you know. two three targets a week to like 10. targets a night. So let's what year is this? This is uh 2005 2006. Oh, I was there. then. So, we're there at the same time. So,

everybody's there. Yeah. So, what I'm what I want to get at. is. Baghdad at that time was like the Wild. West. You're hearing car bombs all the time. You're hearing gunshots all throughout. the day. It becomes very real. The smell, everything. You know it's there. You'd. hear at night when it's quiet, you could. hear five or six different units in. gunfights. and like is that us? No, that's not us.

Who is that? Do they need are they good? And like we're sharing QRFs and QRFs is. running to to you guys to provide. support and then another QRF is coming. to us. It's madness. The whole entire. city, you know, Zarqawi is peak power. right now. All of his lieutenants are in. hammer mode. Al-Qaeda is for the sole. purpose of destroying and killing as. many Americans that are on their soil as. they as they can and to destabilize the. new Iraqi government that we are trying. to put into place. So like this was a. very volatile peak war. This is this is.

war. Yeah. Yeah. Did it start to set in. at all hearing that, seeing it? It was um. we never got. this deployment in comparison to my next. deployment to to Afghanistan could not. have been more dissimilar. This I'm part of an elite unit that's. part of an elite joint special. operations task force that is part of an.

elite coordinated strategic mission. That is a very different thing than you. being in Afghanistan as a special forces. sniper adviser to NATO allies. Like. could not be further apart. We were the hammer every night. You. know, if if. somebody from this task force is showing. up at a door, um if you shot from that. house, everybody dies. You know, if you.

were on target, um you're going to get. bit. You're you're going to get this. battlefield interrogation that's pretty. intense. The tactical questioning as. we're find finding fall on targets as. we're continuing to build out this. target set. Americans are hanging from. bridges after they burn been burnt alive. and dragged through the street. That's. this era of war. This is, you know, black blackwater dudes being tortured. Um football players being kidnapped and. tortured. you know, having um anybody. that was working for the American.

government, Zarawis, having his henchmen. like they'd drill their hands to the. wall, they' cut off their eyelids and. then they'd rape their family in front. of them before they killed them. And. you'd walk in, you'd find this raped and. murdered family with this dude's hands. drilled to the wall. Like, this is. [ __ ] peak war. Did you see that? Yeah. You walked in on that? We we we. found um. every kind of imaginable horror that. terrorists do to to civilians. We we we.

found Let's rewind. Let's re Let's I. want to go right into that. First time. you saw that. What is the OP? Just. everything from the from the. from the insertion to walking in that. room. Yeah. Um, it's funny, full full circle, I was in. Israel just this recent October and. we're in some of the kabutzas adjacent. to Gaza and seeing the same things that. I saw back 18 17 years earlier in Iraq.

Um, the inhumane, barbaric. things that these radical extremists do. are just inhuman. And I think that's the. point is they want to show that anybody. that does anything to support not Sharia. law, not these radical ideas isn't. human, right? They're infidels, so they. can do anything they want to them. Um. on.

this is God, what month is this? This is. early 2006. We um. are going to what we thought was a VBID. target and um Al Aloe Vera was like the. point guy and we do a call out. initially. So you set up like an Lshaped. ambush on the outside of the house. And. this is this was early tactics of like. for 2006, 2005, 2006. Not a lot of.

only special operations units were still. um combat arms were still doing hard. knocks and there was no. immediate dynamic entries. We're doing. as deliberate as we possibly can after. some houses get blown up and there's. booby traps, bombs. So, we're trying to. do call outs and um we're doing a call. out of a target. And when we finally go. to assault and clear the building, um as. we come in through the front door and.

you find a couple of kids that had been. raped and murdered, your brain doesn't. process it. you know, you can't um. not that you're you're planning what. you're going to see, but the last thing. you plan on seeing is, you know, dead. kids in a corner. Um. and uh. I have a really good memory and I. journaled the whole entire time that I.

was deployed and all my deployments. Um, and I'll go back and I'll read some of. these journals. and there's things I literally don't. remember, but it's written down, you. know, like I came back and I sat there. with a pencil in one of my green. notebooks and I wrote for hours. everything that I experienced. My my GRG. is in there. Like the target package is. in there, everything's in there. And I'm. like, "No way this happened. I don't remember.

this." And I'll go and I'll like I'll. ask teammates that that were there at. that same time and they're like, "Dude, I barely remember that." The way. the brain works, like the fog of war and. then. compartmentalization. Yep. The trauma like I I I deny myself that. like I saw some of the things that I. saw, you know, but we saw them and it's. Do you remember it now? Do you remember seeing them now? Some of them. Some of them. No. Some of. them. Yeah. But a lot of them know the.

first time. No. And then confusing. Afghanistan to Ukraine to, you know, Israel. Um. the rooms look the same, the trauma. looks the same, the date is different. Yeah. But the journal is accurate. Yeah, it is. I'm sure it is. Why did you. start journaling?

I uh. was we we had a one of the very first. kill capture missions. We. do a a dynamic entry of a house and as. we're approached in the front door, the. front door is open opened and. a a man is standing military age man is. standing there. There is an AK. on the other side of so there's a T. intersection of a hallway that is from.

the main entry of the room. I'm stacked. on the right hand side behind the owl. and uh he and I are on the right hand. side the stack the other side of the. stack is on the left and we're kind of. like have cross coverage inside of this. door. So like once the number man goes, number one man goes, you you you kind of. just follow taking opposing directions. And um from the right hand side of the. door, we could see the gun and we could. see the guy. From the left hand side of. the door, you could only see the guy, but you couldn't see the gun. So Al and.

the translator, they're yelling to this. guy to get on the ground, get on the. ground, get on the ground. And the guy. goes to grab the gun, and the right. stack shoots him. and uh military age. man on target as he's trying to grab a. weapon and he literally falls on top of. the gun. You know, he has a stack of of. um green tip rounds. He's wearing one of. those bead prayer necklaces. It was. really weird cuz it looked like a. rosary, but it's not cuz they're Muslim. prayer beads. And I remember looking at those beads.

and being like, is this dude Catholic? Like, what is this guy doing here? Obviously, you know, like but these are. the things that go through your mind in. real time in a million thoughts per. millisecond and um you know, the guy falls over on top of this weapon. and we flow through the house. You know, whether it's going to be a flashbang or. it's going to be a dynamic breach, an. explosive breach of the door. The moment. that goes off, just like a bullet, those. bullets going, the over pressure from. the barrels and those bullets impacting.

create a in the udaloop, the the it. resets everybody on the inside. So you. always follow your rounds in. So pa pow, we shoot and we flow into the target. after. we. secure the building and um we're trying. to find where the follow on target is. like move off to the next one and I. don't know who made the calls. So a 156. investigation is where the the army goes.

into factf finding about information. that of possible criminal activity for. UCMJ action. Um, and uh, I've had a few. 156s of these military investigations, and this was the first one where. it should have been military age man on. target. Um, cooporated statements from. teammates that he was trying to grab a. gun, was shot on target,

died on top of a gun. Case closed. No. investigation. totally fine. And this is. peak war when you say wild wild west. like you're shooting dudes squirting off. targets when they're trying to move. Like if if you do a deliberate. um assault on a house, so like a call. out and you see guys start squirting out. the back of the houses, we are set up to. engage those guys that are leaving the. target. Um but then we have a guy on a. target that dies on a gun. And this. initiated an investigation. And it was. at this moment where I was like, we're.

hunting the highest level dude in all of. Iraq and the scrutiny of this task force. post Blackwater. You like as now the. press is looking for excuses and. opportunities to hang um figuratively. and literally and metaphorically. special operations and contractors. uh that in response to that scrutiny, we. we were.

I don't know like putting ourselves. unnecessarily at risk. Mhm. So I started journaling from that night. forward. every single target. This is why I was. able to write that book with such. clarity um with with Nick was because I. I had 15 years of journals from me in a. variety of conflict zones. So starting. that night after that investigation, Al. was actually pulled off of the the.

assault team because of that shooting. Who initiated the investigation? Do you. know? No. You know, and this is I mean I do, but. uh I'm. Was it a US service member? Yep. I uh I'm never going to disparage. There's a guy that was at war. Um I am. an E5 at the time that just wants to get. in gunfights. I did I was not in his. shoes. I was not in his position. I was. not in his position of authority or.

responsibility. That is his name on. documents. Those are his men that work. for him. So like if I were in his. position, I'm gonna say I'm of course. going to do something totally different. But I'm where I'm at now. I'm never. gonna throw a stone at I didn't know. what he knew at the time. Do I think it. was wrong? Of course. Um, dude, I would. do anything to have Al in every single. to be the number one guy in every single. room that I ever went into cuz he was. fast. He was dynamic and and he was. uh violent. I mean, this happened a lot. We did a.

lot. And it just got worse and worse and. worse. And I don't I really don't want. to steer the interview this way, but I. think it's important that people hear. this type of stuff, you know, and and um. how early in the the deployment. I mean, that's your first deployment. Welcome. That was my that was my first weapon. from select to fire and press the. trigger. Really? First time right there and initiated a. 156 investigation. So you pulled the trigger. that whole. right side of the stack did like and.

everybody stepped over. There's three people that shot that dude. and there was a stack of rounds like. this right here. It's crazy. Right at. the intersection of that necklace. Um. maybe 15 bullets all touching each other. like. how did that investigation. um affect your your mental state? Negatively. It uh it made me secondguess. everything that I was doing. It made me.

you know in that in that observe orient. decide act what should be the gunfighter. loop of how fast I can recognize that. there's a problem direct my attention. towards that problem decide what the. appropriate action is to take on that. and then and then act on that you know. that that's milliseconds and that's live. or die and then confusing all of that is. well what should be the action might. cause me to be investigated for a not. righteous shooting that's going to get. give be kicked out of country or like.

even worse, you know, be arrested and. sent to jail. um or kicked off the team. You know, that that was the worst fear for me was. to do something that would get me kicked. off the team. Um and you should not have. fear of fighting when you're in the. middle of war. And there was all of the. just like in the the same moment that we. started losing momentum in the Vietnam. War when cameras started coming in there. and and you're supposed to be fighting. and winning winning. Our job is to go.

and kill the enemy. We're supposed to be. the most lethal fighting force on the. planet. And I should not have to think. about what some politician is going to. be leveraging and positioning and some. argument on the floor to try to demonize. what the fight the men and women that. are wearing the flag on their shoulder. forward are doing in combat. Like you. sent us there, so let us do our job. And. right now we we've been seeing it for. the past 10 years where every single. opportunity is just a talking point for. some politician. Well, you go all the.

way back to 2005 and 2006, it was a it. was very similar, you know, you had uh journalists looking. for opportunities, you had politicians. looking for opportunities. It was just. it was infuriating. Yeah. Yeah. What did So, that was the. first time you pressed the trigger. Yeah. What did that feel like for you? Um minimal recoil. you know, the grain tip. It's a high. energy, fast bullet that uh is.

very light in grains, you know, uh. and stepping over a body that is shot. Afterwards, John again, we get back to. the hooch and uh it slaps on backs and. popping a bottle of whiskey. Mhm. you know, like I didn't know. what to think. I didn't know what to. feel. Um, you know, he'd already been in. a thousand gunfights. I have no idea how.

many, you know, deployments you've been in, but it was. normalized in this is this is the way. like that you are a warrior. You are on. a warrior team and you just had your. first welcome. And uh for a man for a. young man searching for purpose and for. searching for a place not knowing if he. deserved or belonged to be like deserved. and belonged on that ODA. Uh there was.

maybe. for the first time a feeling of I des I. deserve to be here. I wanted to be there. but I didn't know if I deserve to be. there. Did you feel in a a. tremendous sense of accomplishment? Yes. Um I did the thing that I was m. like trained to do. that night. Um in my journal.

uh I wrote because there were two young. boys in that house and uh alive or dead. alive. And I. posed this question to myself that I. couldn't answer at the time cuz I just. remember the wife screaming and the boys. screaming for their dead dad and I did I. just create a new revolution in this. wheel. Was I a spoke that just continued.

to I just killed one bad guy but just. made two more? like these are going to. be forever men, future men that hate. everything about me and us. And yes, I. took out one, but it created two more. Have I just perpetuated this this. endless saga that is good versus evil, and I just created two more versions of. evil? You know, I cut off the snake, the. the head of the snake, and two more. sprouted up in its place because of my. actions. Well, there's another way to.

look at that, too. I mean, look at the. example they had to follow for sure. You know, so that's that's interesting. that you were already thinking that. Yeah. Did it bother you at all? A little bit. You know, the uh man, it would be so. nice if war was against. 30-year-old men with beards that are. doing evil.

You know, if you took the kids off the. battlefield, if you took the women off. the battlefield, if you took um the. confusing smells of the kitchen mixed. with the smell of um all the dust that's. kicked up from the over pressure of a. door charge, you know, where you're. like, I remember the smell of that dust, that fine moonlike dust that gets kicked. up from our charges or from our. flashbangs. And you walk through the. kitchen, you're smelling curries and. spices and herbs that are hanging on the. wall, but then you also smell the lead. smell of the blood from that's pooling.

on the floor for you. Like all of that. is not what the brain's built to do. Mhm. Um all the while there's a 28-year-old. girl with two sons. All three of them. are screaming for their dead dad. Um. and this is as good as it's going to. get. You know, it just gets worse after. that. Yeah, like that's on the best case. scenario. Bad dude with a gun on target. Um, you know, with legitimate intel,

you took out a top terrorist on your. first deployment. Well, that you guys. Yeah. took it. But. that would have been really cool. Yeah, let me uh let me correct myself. there. But let's let's let's get into. that. I mean that is a that's a huge. piece of American history. Yeah. That not a lot of people have insight. into. So can you walk us through. the Zarqawi operation?

Yeah. So there were actually let's start. here. Let's Who was Zarqawi? Yeah. One of the embodiment of evil like. the personification of inhumane radical. Islam. Um Zarqawi was the leader of. al-Qaeda in Iraq. uh you had bin Laden if if like you. think kind of two separate but connected. elements. You had bin Laden that was. still on the run but unknown since Toro, right? He's he's kind of disappeared but.

he is the figure head of this larger. radical terrorist wing. But the man that. is the ground force commander that is in. charge of everything that's happening in. Iraq is Zarqawi. Zarqawi and his lieutenants. Uh, you. know, he was inf famous for posing with. dead American soldiers. Um, battlefield. recovery of their weapons. And if you. saw him, he's sitting there with a 249. or a 240 or an M4 that he took off dead.

soldiers, dragging through them through. the streets. Heaven forbid uh somebody. gets captured. The he was infamous and. notorious for torturing. So he would. torture any American informant. So. anybody that was giving information to. the Americans, he would torture them. Um. you know, Chris Kyle, American Sniper, his his book is following some of the. enforcers from the Zarqawi network. And. um there were a few different special.

operations task forces that were tasked. with. eliminating. support and uh strategic. ground that he controlled while all the. while we're on this kill capture mission. to find him specifically. And um that. the the climax the the crescendo of that. led to a single night where we had taken. down targets leading up to it week after.

week after week. When did you find out you were going. after him? Um. this would be. March of till a month before we finally. found him and killed him. Damn. I mean, that's got to be that's. got to be motivating as hell. Yeah. To be out there after that guy. Let's. revisit that. I am an E6 now.

Mhm. Um and brand new to the team. So the the. task force 100% knew who they're going. after and my team's leadership knew who. they were going after, but the 18 the. junior 18 Bravo uh that gets a GRG and. is told where I'm going to go and where. I'm going to uh attack and where my. position is going to be and where I am. in the stack and where my load plan is. on the helicopter, where my position is. on the on the vehicle that night. my my.

level of understanding of what was. happening in the battle space was you. know like uh pre prepubescent at best. Gotcha. So like uh everybody maybe besides me. knew what was happening. cuz uh you know it's it's difficult when. you're stupid. So and that's where I. was. Right on, man. At least you're honest. Yep. But um well yeah walk let's walk. through the just walk through everything.

dude so much you know this is uh. this is good. nobody's done this yet. Yeah, we didn't. lose. We didn't lose anything. That task. force. had the unit Ranger Regiment, the CRIF, the CIF had our QRF were Abrams and. Bradley's loaded with infantrymen. You. know, like if we start getting scuffed. up, Abram tanks and Bradley tanks came.

and just leveled blocks. You know, this. is um when we say we didn't lose. We're hitting a target that has. maybe, you know, a bomb maker, an. assistant, and a couple of security. guys. So, four guys on target. We're. hitting them with a company. You know, you're you're hitting them with six like. an entire troop of an assault force. And. uh. h how victors and winners approach a.

gunfight is every single thing is in. your favor. You know, you're in the. dominant position. You have the dominant. technology. You have the dominant men. You have every dominant speed surprise. violence action that you can execute on. target is being done in real time. That's what this entire deployment was. you know, the uh purple hearts that were. given out to the guys in the task force. were from, you know, shrapnel. Like.

nobody got shot, nobody got killed. This. was. this was murder time. This is we are. going to find this guy and we're going. to kill him. So. the the target board or the murder. board, right? You have the guy at the. top and then you have strings connecting. to every single one of his lieutenants. And then from his lieutenants, every. some every single one of their enablers. And then from their enablers, every. single one of their adviserss. And you. create this big huge target list. And.

then you attach physical locations to. where these people could be or will be. in real time. And uh you you've seen. hundreds of these boards. You have the. people and then you have the targets. that those targets aren't always exactly. like even though this is, you know, number three guy's house, he's not he's. only going to be at this house at this. specific time. So, you have to figure. out the pattern of life and where that.

person is going to be for you to not. just take down that target, but also. take out that person because what we're. trying to do is limit the options. available for where this where Zarqawi. can squirt to. and um. the targeters, the the army and joint. military intel team. They're amazing. They're just so good.

They're they're they are the best that. have ever been in the the existence of. this species. watching what you know. Jacock can do is and I'm watching you. know like by no stretch of the. imagination do I deserve to be there. Um. I am at best a gun that is barely. competent in how to use it. You know, I'm just doing what I'm told. and. getting to see.

the effectiveness of all of America's. might, power, technology, and military. prowess directed at an acute single. thing is just the most impressive. display maybe in history. Like, I got. it. We went to the moon. We found one. dude that owned an entire country and we. took out every single bit of ground and. person that that man knew until he we. ultimately drop two bombs on top of him. and he dies looking up at an American.

operator. That's freaking epic. It is. So, we hit target target weeks. leading up to this final night. And um. this is my understanding of it is that. we had hit enough targets and taken. enough literal ground enough of his safe. houses where there there were a few. there were few enough for him to run to. in one night. You know, some nights we'd. have 5 6 7 8 9 10 follow on targets as. we're doing a battlefield interrogation. And during tactical questioning, the guy.

says, "Yeah, this is the other place. that we go to." and um. limiting as you look at like the. physical places on the board, there's. lines through them. Now there's like 10. or 15 left. We can do 10 or 15 in a night and they. get prioritized. And of course the. highest priority targets, the ones that. have the highest likelihood of finding, you know, numero uno dude get, you know, one through four. The unit takes this one. um these guys.

take this one down to us and then he. goes back through the list and uh that. night we just hit them house after house. after house after house. and uh for those listening right now. that are wondering what the unit is that. is Delta. Yeah. And they're, you know, they're. they're the leaders of the task force. They are the best most capable fighting. force on the planet. and um they're. hitting all the houses, you know, the.

the first time in in seventh group. history and. and to my to my knowledge, the first. time in. uh special forces history was during. this deployment where the CRF and the U. and Delta Force were on targets for the. first time on for gunfighting. It's kind. of cool. aware that. I was uh outside security just just a. real.

that was not in the house really wanted. to be but uh I will be wherever John. told me to be at this moment of my. career and uh. when. it was wild. leading up to these final nights where. 160th sore uh the the army special. operations aviation group. They're.

flying guys to targets. We have panders. um like armored personnel carriers that. are really really fast zipping all over. the town. The the Iraqi counterterrorism. force is is colllocated with uh another. element of the CIF and they're going and. hitting all of these different targets. and they're the ones that are like. really driving a ton of the information. You know, you get you hit a target. Sometimes the guys from that target try. to squirt and that's the end of it. Sometimes they call for QRF because they. don't realize who they're in a gunfight.

with. And the QRF that shows up is the. Iraqi police that are supplied and. trained by American military. And. they're pulling out guns that were given. to them by the United States government. And you're you're picking up a Glock off. target and being like, we gave we gave. you this. you you're dead, but I I want. to lecture you that like you do not. deserve to have this and like trying to. figure out who the enemy was at this. time is is cuz we're training some of.

the Iraqi military. We're training some. of the Iraqi police. Um but then some of. them are being controlled by Zarqawi. You know, he has some pretty long levers. and he's able to manipulate uh via force. and fear and power for them to do what. he wants that. And we get some nights. we're we're in a gunfight and 160th got. got shot up so bad they couldn't even. come and pick us up. So our Xville were. we're like at our Xville spot after a. full night of gunfighting and we don't. have a ride out to get back to Baghdad.

to into the city proper into the. international into the green zone. And. uh we're like well where's the closest. friendly force? and we find this little. tiny marine fob and uh we try to get. them up on comms. You talk about one of. the scariest moments of my my life is. walking up to a Marine base. uh as a bunch of dudes blacked out in. body armor and guns with dudes in drag. bags and uh a couple of dudes that are. zip tied as we're walking up being like,

"Don't shoot us." you know, like front. link up of friendly forces in a battle. space and like lasers start popping at. us, you know, and we're like we're doing. the whirly bird up in the sky with our. lasers be like, "No, no, no, don't don't. murder us, please." We walk into this. firebase, these guys have nothing. They. have, you know, they're using M16s with. ACOGs. Um, they're getting mortared. every single day. They're eating T-Rats. the their gym are buckets filled with. sand and uh milk jugs filled with.

cement. That's what they're doing for. like shoulder press and bench press and. they're training every single day. They're going outside the wire every. single day. And I'm coming from a base. where I have all the protein powder. We. have like stacks of energy drinks. Like. we have this big huge nice gym with like. a jiu-jitsu mat. We have our own. shooting range. You know, I get to go. and I walk into this and remember I've. never spent a day in the military. I've. only been in special operations and my. whole entire time on a team I've only. been at the SIF. So I walk into this I'm.

like. what? Like you guys live here and. they're on a they're on a 12-month. deployment. Yeah. Yeah. And they're getting hit every single. day. It's wild. It is. And that led up to, you know, two. weeks later us being able to in one. night hit every target, driving Zarqawi to his final last safe. safe house where they drop two guided. bombs, two munitions on top of him. Did you guys know he was on the run.

while you were hitting these targets? Yep. Well, during the interrogation of people on. target, the you were starting to get. this picture of the spiderweb and things. were being cooperated from multiple. targets where people were saying the. same things like, "Yeah, this guy's. going here, this guy's going there. Everybody's like, this address, this. house, this location are all like. driving back to these limited you like. on the location killboard. There's only.

a few left." And we now seen that. they're all going back to those same. places. And it wasn't, you know, I wasn't on. target when he died. U but when we get. back, you know, we're unloading, we're. pulling belts, we're, you know, open. bolt machine guns from 240s and 249, start stripping gear, start repacking. speed bags, you know, starting to change. batteries, and everything goes black. like all comms get shut down, all.

jammers get turned on, so satones aren't. working. Like nothing's working. And um. and uh all cell phones, all internet, all uh landlines, everything gets cut. for the whole entire compound. And. that's when I was like, did this just happen? You know, only a. couple of that only happens for a couple. of reasons. One, somebody messed up. really bad and they have to shut out. shut down all calms out. Two is.

something really good happened and you. have to shut down all calms out. I was. really hoping it was the latter and it. ultimately ended up being the latter. When did you get the news? When uh almost the same time I heard. that George Bush is going to fly in to. shake everybody's hand. No [ __ ]. dude. Yeah. I don't think like I mean I know. it's been leaked and there's photos that. have been leaked but you know that was. regiment Delta Force and seventh group.

CIF all standing there shaking hands as. and George Bush walked down and like he. didn't do that for publicity. Nobody. knew. He just hopped on a plane and flew. over there to shake the hands of the men. that killed the guy that had been doing. so many unspeakable acts to so many. innocent people. Did it register at that point? No. Still didn't register. Still doesn't. It still doesn't.

Damn, Tim. I mean, there's a moment in history and like how. do you know that you're there? um I. didn't deserve to be there. I was still. an immature teammate not supporting in. any way. So like there's there's a lot. of like emotions of of shame and regret. Like I would have wished so desperately. to. be the 2010 operator back in 2006. Just. four years, man. Just give me four.

years. couple of combat deployments, a. couple more schools, a little bit more. understanding of act how to actually. contribute instead, you know, like. um I'm just looking at a door in front. of me and if the guy number one guy goes. right, I'm going to go left. Like that's. where I was and uh that sucks. Well, you were hand selected by a very. seasoned operator for I'm sure a very. good reason. Yeah, I bet if you asked John if he. could go back and make that same same.

decision, he'd make a different. decision. Well, that doesn't matter. Yeah, but it was pretty epic. It sounds like it. That is uh Did you know the guy that. found him? Yeah. And one one of uh Matt Smith, who's the director of training for sheep. dog response, retired special forces sergeant major. He's worked for a bunch of incredible. units, special missions units. uh you. know he he was longtime friends and and.

so getting to like hear the stories and. and firsthand and you know being there. getting to tie what happened at that. target with where we were at the exact. same time you know is uh. you know going back to my journals too. and like reooking at that night which. target we're at and which people we were. questioning when that happened and we. roll back in to the compound when They. finally dropped those bombs and uh you.

know we just been in another fight with. a different QRF. It's like the elevation. adrenaline you know is is freaking out. and then like wait what just happened? Like it's over like we got him. Damn. Do you want to talk about what happened. when they found him or should we keep. that offline? Totally up to you. I want. everybody. to know that this dude that Zurkawi.

radical murderous raping torturing. fanatic burnt people alive you know. dragged them through the street tortured. I I don't know if you're trying to How. many do you think Sean do you under his. lieutenants did he how many people did. he torture and murder. specifically Iraqis. that tension. I can't answer that, you know. I don't. know. I thousands tens of thousands.

It's got to be. It's I mean, I remember. rolling up to locations where. they would put people's heads on cinder. blocks. on huge blocks and then just launch. cinder blocks straight down and pop pop. people's heads like a grape. I've seen. pregnant women, you know, get hung on hooks just to bleed out.

with the fetus inside. And. he was part of all that. Yeah. He's orchestrating all. the headings, all the all of the. [ __ ] that you saw over there. He was he. had a hand in. Yeah. So his last his last breaths as he was. dying from shrapnel and over pressure. was an American commando with his foot. on his chest. You know that's um.

I'm not sure Americans have the appetite. or the tolerance for what it means to. win a war. You know in 1941 a day out of. infamy and we were attacked at Pearl. Harbor. It finished with us dropping two. nuclear bombs on a people that wouldn't. submit. You know, they behind every. blade of grass when you come onto the. the motherland of Japan, you'll find. somebody fighting to protect Japan. Like. fine, Hiroshima, you know, like do you.

are you done? No. Fine. Here's Nakasaki, you know. Are you done? Um then we won. that war right in Europe in the in as we. pushed into Berlin. It was absolute. destruction and carnage of everything. If you look at photographs from early. 1945, late 1944, it is destruction in. epic in epic proportions. Um there. there's no moral equivalency when you're. trying to win a war. There's winning and.

there's losing. That's it. And we're. we're looking for like some moral. justification about how we're going to. be fighting these wars these days. And. there's winning and there's losing. And. um so I realize that now people may not. have the appetite of what it looks like. to have an American standing with his. boot on the chest of one of the evilst. men to walk the face of the planet in my. lifetime. But that is a beautiful, glorious thing. And I hope they can. understand why that's important.

I think most people listening here are. going to understand why that's. important. But thank you for sharing. that. America. That's right. Greatest country in. history. That's right. So, what do you do? So, you take out. Zarqawi. You guys take out Zarqawi. How much longer do you have on this. deployment? I mean, that that was the point of the. deployment. So, we come back um keeping.

the momentum and hitting making sure. that none of his lieutenants are. promoted. So, keeping that initiative. where we continue to hit targets rapidly. over the next few nights. Um, we maybe had a 48 hour standown as the. president came. Um, which is another one. of the reasons why all the comms were. shut down. And once you're told that, you know, President Bush is coming in, uh, everybody.

goes from the task force and is there. and, you know, they shake hands and a. few pictures are taken and he bounces. and then it was like, "Let's go back to. work." Every single bit of information. that was taken off of every single one. of those targets on that night is then. rep prioritized into a new target list. as we, you know, taking this guy off but. moving elevating these two guys that we. haven't yet found and uh and trying to. keep that momentum to secure and. stabilize that battle space.

and then you go home. How many top. terrorists do you think were. neutralized. that deployment? 50. 50 top. You know, like I mean there. there's a lot. It's a whole deck of cards. That's right. Yeah. I mean, in that deck of cards, I. think there's three or four just in that. specific 2004,567. deck of cards. I think there's like five. or six dudes that were in that deck.

Nice. in that one deployment, but then. you know the lieutenants for every. single one of them respectively like. those guys went to the dirt as well. So. there was a there was a 48 hour window. of. I times you got to meet the president. I'm sorry but we got to slow down the. ops cuz you got to meet the president. and then it's right back at it. Right. back to work. as it should be. Yep. No time for celebration. Let's go. get the rest of them. I I think um there.

in that tactical pause and that. battlefield patience which is so. important and often um misunderstood, they were also processing all of the. information taken off of all of those. targets that night and then they had to. rep prioritize. all new targets going forward. that I. mean that's hard like even now if I. would if I were tasked with that how do. you reorganize your whole entire target.

list um with all information that's. taken off of 25 targets in one night and. then you move all you know number two. number one to five and seven. like. and then all of the new ones that we. didn't even know about. Yep, man. That's a That's a hell of a first. deployment, too. Holy [ __ ]. dude.

I still get like heart racing thinking. back. That's That's deployment number. one. My first combat deployment, man. Amazing. Yeah. And things changed. Afghanistan. Yeah. So, let's go home. Let's Let's So, you get home. Do you get. married on this trip home? Yep. Come back. You find out you talk to. spies. She's good. Yeah. And uh I know I'm going to be going to.

Ranger School to Special Forces Sniper. School and um and I'm already starting. to position. I'm trying to find out. which unit is the next unit going back. to Afghanistan. And I start trying to uh. manipulate position myself to get on. that hitch. So I'd like knock out two schools and. then go on the next rotation. So you're not on the CIF? No, I'm still on the CIF. Then what are you looking at other units. for? So the uh.

you once you spend a couple of. deployments or a couple of years on the. assault force, you can move to the recon. Halo sniper team. So I go to Ranger. school. My team sergeant John says, "Hey, if you're going to go to Ranger. school, you can't come back to this team. unless you're under honor." And uh so. you have no choice but to go to Ranger. school because you're immature. You. don't understand leadership. You don't. understand the army. So go to Ranger. school and if you're not honor, you.

can't come back to this team. So I go, I'm honor graduate. I come back. to this team. But then like I still have. a chip on my shoulder because I'm a. prick and uh I still haven't learned. humility evidently. So, I'm like, "Fuck. this team, then. I'm going to, you know, I'll go to the Hello Sniper team." So, then I uh Alex Ortiz is the team. sergeant for 796. And uh he offers me a spot to come to. 796. So, I go to sniper school after. Ranger School, and I'm looking for when.

is the next combat deployment for anyone. in. the greater special forces regiment cuz. now I wanted to deploy as a sniper. Mhm. And um. so I'm still in the CIF, but I'm looking. for jobs for USIs, JC um for coalition. soft forces that need a sniper cuz I. wanted to be an experienced sniper, not.

just a paper sniper. Mhm. And that was uh and especially as a. special forces sniper, in addition to. being able to shoot far, you know, far. far away, you come with the the. understanding of a battle space and how. to, you know, call in nine lines and how. to be the connective tissue between. other special operations units and. combat units in the theater with like as. a softly like a a special operations. leazison. Um,

so a a sniper is really useful in those. roles because he can speak the languages. of lots of different different types of. units. So I was trying to find a way to get to. war as a sniper and the Sith had just. having just returned, they weren't on. the playbook to go back for like two. more years. Okay. And I did not want to wait two more. years. Gotcha. Gotcha. How did you how did you. propose to the to your wife?

Yeah. So, uh. I had first we were going to be going to. a baseball game in Southern California. and I was going to do that cringy. seventh inning thing. I had that set. Um, and. it for a variety of reasons, uh, a. nephew that was sick, we ended up not. going to the game, so I canceled that. Then I was going to do it at Disneyland. during the fireworks. Um, and, uh, but.

fog and weather came in and they canled. the fireworks that night. So then I was. going to do it, um, at the beach house. in California in Cambria. And we're. driving on the coast road over and as. soon as you crest the hill and you see. the ocean, I saw this gigantic. layer of marine clouds. So, I knew that. once we got it was going to be a full. moon that night that once we got to the.

beach, you wouldn't be able to see. anything besides the black murkiness. that is fog. Um, and I have a bad. relationship with fog. So, I was like, I. don't really want to propose to my wife. on a dark beach in the middle of the. fog. So, as we're on top of this hill. looking, this mountain looking out on. the Pacific and the the the Pacific. Ocean is like it's my my home. It's my I. love that water. Um. I right there on the side of the road. like got down on a knee and was uh like.

you're made for me. I don't deserve you. Uh, and I I and I I know that you fight. for me. I'm not going to tell you how I. know, but uh and she she said, "Yeah.". Oh, that was it. And I drove to my. grandma's house in Cambria and told her. she was the first to hear that uh I was. getting married. Oh man, it's cool. Very. cool. Very cool. Now, marriage is tough.

So, you get married, you get engaged, and you get married on the same trip. home. Yep. And find your new unit. Well, I stay in the CIF. Um, I find my. new deployment. Okay. Um, so I still at C37. I was still in. seventh group CIF. And, um, I. Okay. So, hold on. Let me So, there's. multiple teams in within the CI in each. group. There are two troops and each.

troop is comprised of an assault force. of two ODAs and a a wrecky team. Okay. And that wrecky team is broken into like. the Halo sniper and then like the tech. human human side of the wrecky team. Got it. So each of those troops could kind of. work independently, but as a squadron. they can like work as a four team. assault team with two wrecky teams. You. know, that's how we're organized. Got it. And this deployment,

a new battalion was going into. Afghanistan and the. soft coalition. So the the all of our. NATO allies with all of their special. operations. teams that are for deployed, the. British, the Canadian, um Czech, the. French, uh all of those teams are under. the battle space commander of the. American military. So the American kind.

of combatant commander of Afghanistan. has all of these different countries. that are all allies that are all working. under this kind of coordinated um. combatant wing. as a you as a special forces sniper. I. myself and my sniper partner volunteered. to be USA snipers for the coalition. soft. So, anytime that any one of our. allied tier one.

um units were going to be going to a. target, one of us would well the plan. for both of us was to go, but as soon as. we landed in Afghanistan, uh my sniper. partner gets the dear John letter that. his bank account had been dumped that. his wife had a dude on the side and she. was just waiting for him to fly. overseas. She's like selling his guns, selling his. motorcycle, dumping his bank account. So, uh, he was going to be combat.

ineffective. So, they flew him home, which left me there by myself. So, now. I'm a USSOC special forces sniper. assigned to the coalition, and I'm like, I got nobody. So this whole entire. deployment I am just hopping from TST to. TST time sensitive target or trip or. mission which e with each of these. different coalition units. Before we get into the actual. deployment, you did another thing on.

your off time. You started your first. company, correct? That's right. Ranger up. How did that come about? I uh there there's this fighting. tournament. called the Army Combives Tournament and. all military branches could send their. best fighters to this 4-day long just. violent tournament. You you'd weigh in, you'd the first phase was fighting and.

grappling. The second phase was fighting. in pancra limited striking rules. And. the third phase was you fighting in real. MMA fights um for who is going to be the. army combatives champion. Ranger up was like uh this apparel line. that would. make fun of all of the things about the. military that you couldn't make fun of. being in the military.

And it was awesome. and uh Nick Palmiano and Tom Momena and. and Dave were like, "Hey, we want to. sponsor you." So, I went and fought in. the in those army combatives tournaments. as a former professional fighter. So, I'm the only guy in history to to win. them three times. And you'd fight. anywhere from 10 to 20 times over the. weekend. Um, you know, obviously submission fights, pancra fights, and then finally MMA. fights.

What's a pancra fight? It's uh so you're. bare knuckle, but it's closed fist to. the body, kicks to the head, but you. can't close fist punch somebody to the. face. So, it's grappling and kickboxing. heavy. Gotcha. Um and then the it kind of like limits. face damage so that you are able to. fight, which would be your your third. phase and final phase, which is the. championships fights uh in MMA rules. Um, when I won that, Nick and Tom and.

Dave were like, "Hey, man, we also heard that you're like fighting. on the side." So, they started. sponsoring me and I said, "Well, why. don't instead of you sponsoring and. paying me like I would like some equity. and I would like to help build Ranger. Up." So that was my first like business. entrepreneurial. step was getting equity of Ranger up and. then starting to help build that brand. Man, you guys had some great branding. for the time. I remember I remember this.

one video specifically. and it was I've never met Nick, but I. think it was Nick and he was. he had this old. special forces medic on there. Dude, that was hilarious. We were like so far ahead. now. Now there's tons of great military. apparel lines. Yeah. you know, you had like 762, you.

have Nin Line, you have uh Grunt Style, and they're all great companies owned by. great guys. Um, we were the first, you. know, we were the first ones to do it. Uh, you know, Matt Best and Jared that. went on to own Black Rifle Coffee. They. had Article 15, you know, with Rocco. So, like, but we were the first. And, um, you know, we were the first. ones in PXs. We were the first ones like. saying things that you couldn't say and. putting them on shirts and having. soldiers like wear those things around. It was freaking awesome. Yeah. Yeah, that stuff really I mean. that got legs fast.

Yeah, it took off. It seemed like it. Yeah, it it blew up. It it was crazy to. go from, you know, Nick and Tom and and. Dave like printing shirts in a garage to. them, you know, selling 5 million in. shirts. Wow. You know, yeah. An infantry officer, an SF officer, a. Ranger battalion kid, and uh and a green. beret. Damn. Damn. That is uh very cool. This. fun. Did you guys get a lot of [ __ ] for. that? Did you?

Yeah. We got like, "Oh, you're you're. those guys, you know, like and some some. people didn't get the jokes and and uh. and. military humor is not humor that is. appreciated sometimes out of the. military." So, non. service members would see some things. and they'd be like, "Dude, that's not. funny at all." You're like, "No, it's. it's that's it's absolutely hilarious.". You're like, "I'm sorry that you don't. get it, and I'm sorry that you're. offended," or whatever triggered word is. now, but uh this is funny. You just. don't get it. And that's a you problem.

Yeah. How long did that run, uh go on for? I. mean, 10 years. 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that carried me into, you know, I fought for IFL and Strike. Force, um UFC. I was I was wearing. Ranger up on fight shorts and um and. that the success of that company and how. to do it and how to market really led. into me opening new business ventures. and how to organize business. Um, there.

were a lot of mistakes that we made at. Ranger Up, but. like with all mistakes, ideally you. learn from them. And I was just surrounded by really. smart people that once we made a mistake. and they learned from them, they would. then tell me what to do so I didn't make. them again cuz I would make them again. cuz I'm dumb. But they would be like, "Ah, maybe if you learned from this, we'd do this differently." And they it. just kept kind of getting better. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. that uh.

I mean it essentially created an entire. subculture out of the military that that. brands have. taken ideas from, learned from, develop. new ideas. I mean, that was that was. kind of the start, you know, and it's uh. very cool. Yeah, we're def definitely proud of it. uh you know, we didn't we didn't exit. like the way that you would want, you. know, as you position yourself to sell a. company at the right time. Um we we did.

it in all the wrong ways. Uh which is. another hard lesson to learn where you. you know, you've been part of a brand. for 10 years and then you kind of watch. that brand die on the vine. You like. Rindrop still exists. you know, I still. own a percentage of it, you know, but. the c the that company, which I don't. control anymore, and neither does Nick, is like a shell of what it once was. Um, you know, that that stings. Yeah. Uh we're like, man, why didn't we sell. at this moment or why didn't we position. to exit at this moment? And we just. didn't know any better.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Well, plus was a uh it wasn't your. primary focus. Nah. you know. So, all right, let's move. into Afghanistan. So, you're a sniper. for use sock. Yeah. So going from. being on a J-C task force hunting the. number one dude on the planet to being a. single sniper in support of coalition.

units that do not get tier level. targets. You get whatever is there in. their battle space. Um there's no QRF. There's no support. There's not even. another person on Target that speaks. English. And sometimes in some instances. like like I knew they some of the guys. on the on target spoke English. They. just wouldn't talk to me in English, you. know, like I don't speak French. I don't. speak German, you know, like I fight to.

go with the Canadians or the British, but um they weren't trying to get in the. fights like the checks were. Like the. checks wanted to get into fights. So. like me traveling and and deploying and. going with the checks off for example. into Firebase Anaconda like they wanted. to get into gunfights. No [ __ ] I never even I never worked. with the checks. dude. They're bad. Are they? Yeah. A bunch of Viking bloodooded. dudes. I never got the opportunity. I've seen. the I've seen the pocks. Seen the.

pullers. and uh those boys were hungry. Yeah. But I never Yeah. Never saw the checks. kind kind of same vibe between the two. of them, you know? They're like. the like the the guru and and checks off. both have that like something to prove. Eastern block anxiety of post USSR where. like they got a they have a chip on. their shoulder. They want to know how to. fight. They want to bring lessons. learned from combat back to their homes.

you have to be in Eastern Europe when. you have Russia knocking on your door. often um and then making incursions into. Crimea into Ukraine and and um. for you to understand the the permanent. anxiety that these special operations. guys have because it's on them, right? Like you can say NATO all you want, but. if. Russia came to the Polish border, which. they were trying to push through, you. know, like when they got all the way to.

Kev and they're looking at moving all. the way up into Poland, um Poland was. positioned to find a line in the sand. and stand there and die on it. Like. you'd have to step over the bodies of. every single Polish special operations. guy if you were a Russian soldier trying. to invade Poland. And they have had that for 20 years. Yeah. So then they get to go to war, but they. haven't been in war, like real war. And.

now they want to. prove their tactics, their procedures, they want to make sure that their. equipment is right, they're using the. right ammo. All the things that you. learn from war, they're trying to. perfect there. The check in the polls. Um or maybe the. the most hungry. Yeah. Yeah. Did you So, what's it like. going out with those guys? They uh don't shoot at them.

They uh they also don't have the same. scrutiny. You know, this is 2008 now. Now we're peak Afghanistan war. I went. from like peak af Iraq war to you know. 2007. 89 is peak Afghanistan war. And um. if you're on, you know, if we're moving, we're we're we're on um a gaff, a ground. assault force, we're in vehicles moving. towards a target and that target starts.

shooting at the ground assault force, they're just going to level the target, you know, like this is the. war that we're at now. It's not like, hey, let's continue to roll up and hit. them in a dynamic entry. It's like, cool, let's stop and we're just going to. drop bombs and mortars on top of these. guys and then we're going to cruise down. as maneuver elements and pick up the. bodies. You know, this is uh. um we got blown up as Valley and is gone.

with the checks and uh it was a. IED initiated ambush and they had. positioned a few hundred foreign. fighters and Taliban in this valley with. this intent of taking out the entire. Czech Special Operations, the special. forces ODA that was es escorting them to. Firebase Anaconda. um and all of the. resupply that was going to keep them at. this fire base throughout the winter. So. there's this gigantic.

caravan of Jingo trucks and then the. Czech special operations forces and the. American escorts to there and I was the. leazison to the Czech special forces. Okay, this is just an example of like. the different types of missions that I. went on as that uses. sniper leazison. From the time that initiated. um that ID initiated ambush kicks off, PKM machine guns start going off. RPGs.

are skipping off hoods and slamming into. vehicles. Like that was the beginning of. a three-day gunfight. Um, and if if you're doing your your. battlefield damage assessment, you know, you're you're looking at a few hundred. dead foreign fighters. Damn. Um, you know, the vehicle in front of me. gets disintegrated. Everybody inside of. it dies, you know, like purple hands. hearts were handed out to like not. handed out, that's not the right word.

Um, everybody gets purple hearts from this. mission. um you know shrapnel in the. back and the necks. We're in villages as. we're moving from there all the way to. Firebase Anaconda. Every time that we. moved to the next village, we're having. to fight doortodoor, building to. building to get through this village and. you couldn't go around this village. because around the outsides of these. villages, they had put IEDs. Damn. Uh so it was just like. And you're with the checks. Yeah. How are you communicating with them? How. are you integrating with their tactics?

I would mostly talk to the Americans. about where we were and where we were. going and I would just observe what the. checks were doing or how they were. maneuvering and then I would communicate. to the team sergeant of the special. forces ODA about hey we're going to be. heading you like we're going north with. rest our is this right now um we're. going to be moving to this position and. the company commander spoke broken. English but English enough where he. would relay to his unit that would be. maneuvering to a a position and then.

he'd give me like the bluff. He'd give. me the wave tops like this is the bottom. line up front. We're moving to this hill. and we're going to be providing. suppressive fire uh as the ODA is going. to be moving to the south. So I call the. ODA be like hey we're moving up to this. hill. This is going to be the grid. coordinates. Um and uh and I'll give you. intel from this position as we go. And. that would be rapidly changing and I. would always be struggling into find. figuring out like what the heck is going. on right now. Yeah. And so.

I mean I got to be honest, this sounds. like a pretty good mission set to me. I. mean so you're you're basically a strap. hanger for anybody that's doing [ __ ]. That's right. I got to. Was it hard to. integrate in with these units and and. get them to say, "Yeah, we want them on the op." No, you. I mean um you know you the you pass the. sniff test, you go into the pre-mission. briefing and um you ask a few of the. right questions and you know how am I.

going to be an asset? Where would you. like me? How would you like me to. communicate? What kind of information do. you want me to relay to the Americans? Um like here are some capabilities that. I have in calling for fire. This is um. the equipment that I'm bringing with me. Um is this appropriate where I would be. useful if I have the stuff? Is there. other stuff that you would like me to. have that I do have that I can bring if. you'd like? You know, th those type of. things really um build immediate rapport. when you're having kind of an outsider.

come into your unit. Um they they also. recognized the value of having that. American special operations less. You. know they if you want air support and. you are a French special operations and. you're trying to call for American call. for fire. That's hard, right? But then you have a me there. where I can just pick up my phone and be. like my figurative phone and be like,

"Hey, this is where we're at. This is. what we need. This is where I need it. Send it." And it's done. So like they. they recognize the the value in that. So. with the right questions and the right. kind of immediate rapport building and I. would also bounce each one of the. different nationalities had their own. bases when you got to like Bram or. Kandahar they were all segregated into. like the Italians were here you know the. French were here the British were here. do you remember like uh. I remember.

so I was I would I would go and spent I. would go have dinners with them I would. uh you know like if there's a soccer. game happening I would go and hang out. with them and uh I was able to go. outside of the wire and acquire things. that help build rapport with foreign. units. Um, so, you know, I'd bring a. bottle of wine or, you know, like things. that are hard to come by in Afghanistan. I'd bring and show up with, you know, some salted meats and uh for a soccer. game and and then, you know, you're.

I was E6 with, you know, combat patch. recently came from Afghanistan. and I. got a Ranger tab. Like they know that. I'm the special forces sniper. So there. there were it wasn't as hard to build. that initial rapport, you know, thinking. back to my dad about like how to break. down barriers. Um I came bearing gifts. Um I kept my mouth shut, asked questions. when appropriate, and uh looked for. opportunities to contribute.

How many different units did you operate. with? About a dozen. Wow. over the course of uh eight months. Damn. Did you So now you're you're a. you're a special forces sniper. You've. got a whole new set of capabilities and. skills. Did you engage anybody as a sniper? Yeah, a lot. Did you kill anybody as a. sniper? Yeah, a lot. Can we talk about the first. one? Yeah, it's a bad one. It was sad like.

all war is. Um, I wish it was like, dude, I saw this dude squaring out of. the back of the target, you know, he had. like his head holding the head of a of a. baby on his shoulder, you know, and um, he's carrying an AK and I see that he's. wearing a VBID vest and he's running. towards an American unit and I shot him, you know. Uh yeah, it was a child. carrying a 1875 lever action British. rifle and he was moving in resupply. points between uh.

this Taliban machine gun position and I. saw him move a couple of times. I didn't. know how old he was. He's about 5600. meters. There's like hours of li limited. visibility. So, like I see a guy with a. gun moving from like the far side of a. hill to a machine gun position. He does. it a couple of times. So, the next time. that I see him moving, I shot him. Very. rarely do you get to go and see the. people you shoot as a sniper. And uh.

this was in our direction of travel. So, as the caravan starts to move in that. direction and I come and I see this 11, 12year-old kid with a rifle, um, I actually, if you ever come to my. office in Texas in Austin, I have this. gun hanging on my wall. Right underneath. it is the scentcom permission from the. Jag for me to bring. It's not a war.

trophy. They said it's not even. functional. Um, and I also have US. Special Operations Command JAG. authorizing me. And I have both of them. like the stamped approved. uh what were those like little squeeze. things that put a permanent mark on the. paper. Yeah. You know, with the Jag signature. Yeah. With their little pressure seal. Both of those things sitting right. underneath there. And I it reminds me of. two things. One is every time I hear a. politician say like, "Why do you need a. gun?" Like, "What is the importance of.

the Second Amendment? We have F-16s and. F-18s and M1 Abrams. And I think back to. a little boy, a peasant, a nomad that. had been kicking. the American special operations ass in. this valley for 3 days. And he's running. around with an 1875 musket. One man with. a rifle protecting his own land. How. powerful he is and the power of the. Second Amendment and how this. insurmountable force of one one good guy. with a gun. How powerful that is. So. that's one reason. And the second is to.

remind me of the cost of war. It's never. the way that you want it to be. It's. never the way that it is in the movies. It is horrible. It is young. It is pain. And uh you know, I. I don't want my son to ever have to. shoot an 11-year-old kid carrying a gun. that doesn't even work. That's war. Um, everything else is for the movies. Does that still haunt you?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. It's war. Yeah. Someday we'll have peace. We'll. all live together. But until then, this. is what war looks like. Uh, you can have these. ideals and dreams of grandeur, but. it's. eviscerated bodies and burnt smell of. hair and flesh and children that are.

raped and tortured and die of from over. pressure wounds and bad guys. on the same not but two days later from. me shooting that kid. I throw a grenade. through a window with a Pam machine gun. Mike Gobble, hero, one of the greatest Green Brays to. walk the face of the planet. Roy. Benvita's level Green Bray. I walk up to. a door and I don't know how he knew. this. I don't know if uh he was precog. like maybe he came from the future and.

came back in time. And I walk up to this. door. Divine intervention. It's happened. multiple times in my life. I walk up to. this door. We see bad guys move into. this building. And uh as soon as I go to reach for the. handle of the door, Mike and I, we. always had like some friction. We had. been in a couple of fights over some. dumb stuff. He was in a machine gun. position. He had a pistol out. I was. like, "Why aren't you on your machine. gun?" He's like, "Well, I want a pistol. kill." Like, "You're you're a stupid. idiot." And then we'd fist fight. Um so.

like. fast forward to this. typical Neanderthal conversation. 100%. I put my hand on this door and he hits. me so hard and shoves me and I stumble. back and fall over as this door got gets. shredded with machine gun fire. And I. don't know if he like heard a bolt drop. or if he heard a selector switch. There's no way cuz I was at this door, right? Like I didn't hear anything. All. I know is like I just start falling back. and I'm like trying to get my feet cuz.

I'm going to come at him and knock his. teeth through his face cuz he just. shoved me cuz I thought he wanted to be. the number one guy through the door and. as soon as he shoves me it pushes him. back and this door just gets shredded. with machine gun fire and uh saves my. life. No, no question. Had I been there. like a half a second later and Mike Gold. not been there, I'd be dead. And uh I. see as this door like kind of starts. swinging that there's a machine gun.

sticking out of this window. And I take. a grenade. I throw this frag grenade. through this window. Again, it's not. like the movies, right? There's not like. this flame. Like there's not this like. it's just this thud. And uh what you. want to hear is silence. You know, all I hear is women and. children start screaming. This guy had barricaded himself and. surrounded himself with a bunch of women. and children in this room. And uh you know this is two days after. coming off this kid.

You got a lot of Spartan stuff in here. Do you remember the plungers behind the. line of the 300? So you'd have the guys in the front, the. fall, right? The short stores and the. spears. And they would move that line. forward. and then step over the bodies of the. people that were fighting that would die. against the shields. The next row behind them were long. spears. So they were guys that were. stabbing through the shoulders and over. the shoulders of the forces that were. coming. So the the wall would come, they'd attack, they'd close the wall, spears would come, and as you'd step. over these bodies, the third row would.

be a plunger. And he would have this. metal spike, and he'd just stab these. guys as the Spartans would move forward. Every night as we moved forward, I would. sit there all night long with a thermal. imager and I would splash rounds into. every heated body on the battlefield. Holy [ __ ] dude. And I did it every night for eight. hours. Couple hundred rounds a night. [ __ ].

The only one that could shoot out. So. the with these RG33s. with the Crows um amazing targeting. system, what we didn't have was a lot of. ammo. So the Crows has thermal. They'd. be able to spot a target. I would lay. and they'd give me an azmouth and a. distance and a direction, right? And. with distance and direction, I'd kind of. P the body and then I would dump a. couple of rounds in it. And then they'd. move it five degrees and they'd give me.

a new distance and direction. I would. adjust and I'd splash a couple of. rounds. Repeat every night. And that uh. exhausting. Yeah, it's heavy. And then. you drive out and you just see these. bodies that have, you know, your holes. in them to uh to go into the next. village that a dude is fighting from a. room that he's surrounded with women and.

children. This is war. [ __ ] war, man. How did that deployment end? with no elation or grandeur, with no. celebration, with no um. time, you know, a uh a redeployment date for. me to go to another school.

That was uh. I had that rifle which id kept in my my. little tiny crappy plywood sleeping. area. Um, and I remember like getting in. fight after fight after with an Air. Force Jag guy with like uh the. redeployment. security clerk. He's like, "You can't.". I'm like, "I can. I literally can't.". Like, "This is paperwork with a stamp. that outranks you saying that I can.". Like, "You can't." I'm like, "This gun's. coming with me." Um, it's like that.

fight to bring that gun back home was. crazy. But ultimately, you know, the. that deployment date ended and I'm by. myself. Like I didn't fly home with the. team. I didn't like high five like let's. go back. My wife met me at the green. ramp when I landed. There was nobody. there. Damn. Yeah. How was it coming home, dear wife? Broken. Yeah, I was a.

broken dude. How was she? I didn't know her. It was eight months. since I saw her. And in eight months, you know, I. did the worst things that a person can. do to another person. And uh she didn't, right? She's at home. Uh she's working. every day. She's taking care of her. shepherd. You know, she's running. marathons. And you know, she's finishing. her MBA. And um so she's developing as a. human. And I'm.

developing in a totally different way. You know, not better or worse, just. different. So, I was at a Best Buy. This guy in this BMW starts cruising by. and uh he's smoking clothes. There was. an Indian restaurant that was like just. a couple buildings away, but I clearly. was like downwind from it because I. could smell like the curry from the. Indian restaurant and I could smell his.

clove and he was listening to some. Arabic music and then he's like in a bad. guy's car cuz like that's what all of. them drew. And like I mean I was. thinking about just like smoking this. dude in Fville, North Carolina. I've. been home like three days and I was. like, man, I gotta I'm gonna I'm gonna. go back to my house for a few days. Um, they had just had the UFC fight for the. troops the same weekend that I got home. and I got home the day after it.

happened. So, like Brock Lesnar's in. town, Randy Couture is in town, like. these are all dudes that I knew. and um. and my. and I love the Brotherhood. of Combat Arms, specifically Special. Operations. Uh Alex Ortiz. and uh. well, this sucks as I can't remember a. couple of their names cuz they're dead. now. Some of my teammates, that sucks. um.

they knew and had heard what that. deployment was like for me. Um and uh. you know when I'd call back to give them. updates to my team sergeant, I'd call. Alex. I'd be like, "Uh, hey, hey boss, just want to give an update. I'm back. I. just got back from this hitch that I was. with the British or the Canadians or. whatever." Um he's like, "Hey man, I I I. heard like I'm getting updates every. single day uh on the red side." So, first of all, I just want you to know.

that I'm super proud of you. Um, I want. you to not feel any pressure to do. anything. Like, you know, be the best that you can be, but you're. not proving anything to anybody. Like, we're we're proud to have you. And like. that really that was the first time that. I was like I felt like I belonged there. uh was because of Alex. And um even even. like my team leader was. supportive.

which we're not highly developed on the. emotional IQ scale I would say. So having you know a a superior give you. that affirmation was rare. And uh so when I came home they were. they were there. physically. You know my wife was there. like emotionally like I I don't know. what you need right now but I'm like. here. And then the team was like, you. know, take whatever time um you need, but we're not gonna let you get out of. the saddle. So like, we're gonna be.

sending you to another school. immediately. So like, take a week, figure things out, and let's get you. back on the horse. You had kids, too? Yep. You had two two. daughters from uh pre-military. They were uh. they were born. 10 months after 911. So I tried to recruit on 911 and and. this kind of period of debauchery of uh.

me living as a broken man without. purpose trying to cuz I was trying to. get in the military like it took me 18. months trying to figure out what branch. I'm going to. They had de delayed. enlistment things. They're trying to put. me in like this IR thing and I had no. idea how any of it worked. So I I knew. where I wanted to go but I had like no. purpose or direction. Um, and uh, you. know, young man without purpose is a. very dangerous thing. So, uh, yeah, I. was got a few girls pregnant, thought I.

got AIDS. Um, you went for a swim in the Pacific. Ocean, butt ass naked out into the fog. with no plan about how to get back. Just, uh, trying to figure things out. Were you hoping to die out there? Not. consciously, you know, there was no I. was trying to get baptized, you know. I was trying to like wash. away. I mean, at that moment, I.

literally thought I had AIDS. I had a I. had a girl that I had partied with after. a cage fight and she was a ring girl. She comes and she is trying to find all. of her partners cuz she tested positive. for HIV. And um so one kudos to her as. she's trying to track everybody down and. be like, "Hey, you know, so she walks into the gym. I have a few. girls pregnant at this moment of my. life. My grandpa's dying of emphyma and. I can't do the thing that I want to do, which is going to the military." And uh.

you know, post 911. It's just chaos. Like this this is you're in basic. training, which just blows my mind. and. going to Buds like the same year that. I'm walking into the ocean butt ass. naked and swimming into the fog. Like I. just want I would have done anything to. be where you were. Yeah, that is some heavy [ __ ] man. But you find purpose. Well, let's talk. about divine intervention. So, you're a. Christian.

Yeah. You're a man of faith. Very much so. We've talked we just. talked about something that happened and. now we're getting into this which we had. discussed either last night or this. morning. Yeah. I mean, even getting plucked out. of this water, like I get naked, I swim. a mile or two miles out into the fog. If. you've ever tried to recover somebody. from the fog, it's it's nearly. impossible. Just trying to recover somebody in the. water at night. We just lost two seals. at night that went into the drink as.

they're trying to board. Like we knew. where they fell in. Like we're talking about an entire body. of water where nobody saw me walk into. this water. Supposedly some some old. woman uh had a witness of me getting. into the water. It's impossible. This is. like pre- cell phone. Like there's p. there's a pager on on the sand next to. my wallet. Um. there's no vantage point that any house. with a phone can see me. So that doesn't. make any sense. But ultimately a Coast. Guard boat and I hate that I got rescued.

by the Coast Guard. I don't know about that. Ultimately, a. Coast Guard boat with this dude with his. feet hanging off the front of this boat. cruises up and he's like, "Hey, what are. you doing?" Tell him I'm swimming. And. he makes fun of me. Uh I give him a. brief update of like what's happening in. my life and he's like, "Man, I was going. to offer you a ride back in, but. maybe you just want to stay in the. water." And I was like, "Nah, it's. cold." And he leans forward. He like. looks at my dick and he goes, "I see.

it's cold." Like, but it like lit a. fire, you know? I was like, "All right.". He's like, "Well, I'll give you an. option. You can clamber. You can climb. up onto the boat, but from this point. forward, you're going to treat your life. with a little bit more respect than you. do at this moment or did at this. moment." I. I said, "All right." And he threw that. ladder down. Ah, man. And it was so hard. to climb up. I've been in that water. maybe an hour, hour and a half to climb. up that rope net with my hands that.

weren't even working right here in the. Pacific Ocean Bay. I'm going to guess. it's 52, 53°. I've been out there hour, hour and. a half. Um, you know, long enough to to. be in bad shape. And he put one of those. wool navy blankets on me and it felt. like a million needles were burning. Steel needles were like burning in my. back. It was like the best feeling I've. ever felt. I was alive. There's no way that Mike Gold heard that.

bolt drop and saved my life. There's no. way that some woman saw me walk into the. ocean and was able to give a specific. distance and direction as to where I was. in the water. It's impossible. And. there's no way that in the fog, in the. darkness, a boat would be able to come. up and find somebody in the water. There's no way. Go forward to. my wife and I have been married about 10. years and uh coming back from 20th.

something trip. burnt emotionally you know raw all the. wires are exposed. um and uh. just going to call it quits you know or. I'm I'm done and uh. we're together and I I don't know. We. hadn't been to church. I hadn't been to. church in 10 years. I uh I I couldn't reconcile like what.

was happening in war and the things that. we're seeing with uh that there's the. exist there's an existence of a loving. God. And um so. we walk into this church and the pastor. is giving a sermon on the importance of. marriage and why it is one of the most. important things that you can do in your. whole entire life. And I was like, well, that's kind of awkward cuz we we're kind. of already in this let's be done moment.

And she's not really looking at me. I'm. not looking at her. and uh he's like, you know, and and starting today, we. have this new small group called. Marriage Matters, and there is room for. everybody that wants to go. If there's a. thousand people in here that want to. start Marriage Matters, we will find a a. thousand slots. And um and come as you. are. We don't care what you have going. on in your life. Just come. And like she.

won't look at me, I won't look at her, you know? And I was like, "Oh, this is. awkward." And she's like, "Yeah." like, "What do you want to do?" And the girl. next to my wife that I've never met. before. Her name is Jen Ferguson. Jen. Ferguson, she leans forward. She goes, "Well, I'll tell you guys what you want. to do." So, I'm the small group leader. for this marriage matters thing. I was. like, "Do you know what, Jen? I need you. to not talk for a little while. I don't. know you and I just want you to pump the. brakes." And like your awesome energy. just he's like, "You're an 11. I need. you at like a two and I knew you at a. two over there." So,

you know, on that day, uh, my wife and I. walk into a marriage matters class and. saves our marriage. Um, it's going to get even more weird and. you're this exact same time, one of my. older daughters, Sabrina, there's a. there's a well, there's a a hole. It's. called the deep blue well in Texas. It's. called Jacob's Well. It's about a 80. foot straight down dive, but an entire. river comes up from this um spring. So,

you're swim swimming against this. current uh and it's about 20x 20 wide. hole that goes deep into the water. You're not allowed to scuba dive in it. because a p bunch of people have been. lost and they died down there. Um it's a. very difficult free dive. Mhm. And um in the same time that I am. trying to figure out what I'm supposed. to do in this marriage, Sabrina and I go there and um she's a. great swimmer and she's hanging out on. the top. I do a free dive down to the.

bottom, grab a rock, fight my way back up, set the rock. there, go back through my my free dive, pre-dive breath protocols, take the rock, slip off, and go all the. way down to the bottom. I'm sitting down. there maybe about 2 minutes, and I'm. just like, it's cold. This is like Texas. spring aquafer water. and um just in the. darkness and it's very eerie. A lot of. people can't even like swim over it.

because it's literally just this. straight down blue hole. And uh I see this glimmer of this ring. or of this metal and I swim over there. and I fan it and I find a size 14 Irish. Ba band band titanium wedding ring. and uh I grab it and I swim back up to. the top and I'm like. Sabrina look what I just found. She's. like where did you find that? I was like. at the bottom. Are you kidding me?

Clearly like somebody had jumped off and. it had fallen off their finger. And uh I have giant a pans. It's my ring. size. You can't resize titanium. And. it's an Irish band. I'm Kennedy. I'm ob. obviously Irish. And I I had taken my. ring off, my original ring. And I hadn't. been wearing it. Um and then sitting. here at the bottom of. this deep blue hole is my new wedding. band at this exact same time of my life.

Yeah. Wow. I'm not saying confirmation bias that I. could project that these things I wanted. to happen, but they did happen and. they're so. statistically impossible. that I can't sit back objectively and be. like, "These were coincidences.". You know, there's no way I didn't die in. that valley.

There's no way I didn't die at that. door. There's no way I didn't die in the. water. There's no way that that ring. wasn't put there for me. You still have it? Yeah, man. Wear it every day at home. Yeah. I don't shoot, train, or travel. with rings. They cause extra problems. Does your faith continue to develop? Do.

you practice it? I definitely practice it. Um, you know, I read the Bible. I do devotionals. Um, I am, uh, I know God exists. I know a loving God. exists. I know that there's divine. purpose. I know that every single person. was made for a purpose and finding that. purpose. And I I found my purpose and I. know why I'm here. um. what is your purpose?

It's uh it's literally the mission. statement of our company and everything. that I do is tied back to preserving and. protecting human life and enabling and. empowering people to provide for their. families and be able to expand freedom. Like that is why I'm here. It's a damn. good purpose. Yeah. I think on that note, let's take a. quick break. How many you guys out there are worried. about brain health? You know, all we.

hear about is fitness. Everybody's. getting ready for bikini season cuz. spring's right around the corner. I'm. personally more concerned about my. brain. You look around, you see all. these brain diseases that are getting. out of control. I'm going to take. everything I can to improve the health. of my brain. And I'm going to tell you. about my five favorite supplements from. Layered Superfoods that help with brain. health. All right, the first thing I do. every morning is I have Layard Superfood. Creamer. It's got adaptogens and.

functional mushrooms, which are great. for brain health. I put this in my tea. Tastes amazing. Who likes vegetables? Cool. Me neither. That's why I take Lar's daily greens. Just pour it in a cup, shoot it real. quick. You got your daily vegetable. intake. Plus, guess what? Yep, that's. right. Functional mushroom extract. There's six different kinds in here. Once again, great for brain health. After greens, we got daily reds. This.

one doesn't actually have any functional. mushrooms in it, but I can't stand. beets. I think they taste like [ __ ] And. so, I take one scoop of this, put it in. my water, and I don't have to eat beets. anymore. All right, we're winding down. the day now. This is the next supplement. I take every single night. layered sleep. and recovery. Helps me sleep, helps me. recover from my daily workout. And guess. what? Yep, you're right. It has mushroom. extract. Guess what? It's good for your. brain. And I saved the best for last. Most of you know this. My favorite.

supplement at Layards is performance. mushrooms. Has a ton of mushroom. extract. Super super good for your. brain. Take it every single day, sometimes multiple times a day. These. are my five favorite supplements from. Lared Superfoods. You can go over to. layardsupfoods.com, use the promo code SRS, save 20%. Ladies. and gents, I would not have partnered. with this company if I didn't believe in. them. They take the cleanest. ingredients. They try to source.

everything in America. unless they find a better ingredient. that's more quality somewhere else. I. think we can all appreciate that. Once. again, larsupfoods.com. Use the promo. code SRS. That'll save you 20%. I want to give a big thank you out right. now to all the Vigilance Elite patrons. out there that are watching the show. right now. Just want to say thank you. guys. You are our top supporters and.

you're what makes this show actually. happen. If you're not on Vigilance Lead. Patreon, I want to tell you a little bit. about what's going on in there. So, we. do a little bit of everything. There's. plenty of behind the scenes content from. the actual Shawn Ryan show. On top of. that, basically what I do is I take a. lot of the questions that I get from you. guys or the patrons and then I turn them. into videos. So, we get right now. there's a lot of concern about. self-defense, home defense, crimes on.

the rise all throughout the country, actually all throughout the world. And. so we talk about everything from how to. prep your home, how to clear your home, how to get familiar with a firearm, both. rifle and pistol. For beginners and. advanced, we talk about mindset. We talk. about defensive driving. We have an end. of the month live chat that I'm on at. the end of every month where we can talk. about whatever topics you guys have. It's actually done on Zoom. You might.

enjoy it. Check it out. And if Zoom's. not your thing or you don't like live. chats, like I said, there's a library of. well over a hundred videos on where to. start with prepping, all the firearm. stuff, pretty much anything you can. think of, it's on there. So anyways, go. to www.patreon.com/vigilance. elite or just go in the link in the. description. It'll take you right there. And if you don't want to and you just.

want to continue to watch the show, that's fine, too. I appreciate it either. way. Love you all. Let's get back to the. show. Thank you. All right, Tim, back from the break. I needed that break. Yeah, that was getting pretty heavy. there. And uh I appreciate you diving. deep for that last segment there. But so. now it's you're leaving the CIF and UFC. is about to pick you up. That's right.

How does that how does that even happen? So I I was fighting the whole time that. when I'd come back from deployments or. I'd get back from a school, I I fought. 5 days after graduating from Ranger. School. Most people don't walk for months. Like you don't have to take a PT test. for a year after graduating from Ranger. School. I graduated from Ranger School. and I get a call from Leo Coralinsky who. is um one of the owners of the team one. of the teams in the International Fight. League, the IFL on Fox and uh he said,

"Hey, I have a I have a fight this. weekend. I lost my light heavyweight. Can you come in? I heard that you're a. fighter and the you're on some shows. that you were just in. Uh can you come. this weekend?" I was like, "Well, it's. it's Monday. Like weigh-ins are Friday, fights Saturday." I was like, "All. right." All right. So, 5 days later, I. weigh in on Friday and I go and I fight. um Dante Rivera, incredible black belt, professional. fighter, and um. beat the brakes off of him. And Leo.

Corinsky is like, "Who who are like what. what is going on here?" And I'm trying. to explain to him like everybody. on Fort Bragg or on Coronado, all of us. trained, all of us fought, all of us. like it is just part of the in every. course that you would go to, whether. it's Sphartic or Safic or CISC. Every. single morning, you're fighting, you're. grappling, you're, you know, on the CMMS. range, you're like, it's just fighting. And they wanted to keep that warrior. spirit healthy. And I was like, I hate.

to break this to you, but I literally. know about a thousand guys that fight as. well as I do. and they're at Fort Bragg. currently, but uh but I'm here if you. want me to fight. So, I kept on fighting. and that went well and it went unnoticed. for a while until one night live on Fox, a couple of Sergeant- Majors. We're at a. famous bar in Fort Bragg, North. Carolina. And they see this kid with a. shaved head walk out to the ring and it. says a ranger from Fort Bragg, North.

Carolina. There are no rangers at Fort. Bragg, North Carolina. And they're like, "Well, that's probably one of our guys, isn't it?" And they see me go and knock. this guy out in a main event fight. And. um so they go, "Tim Kennedy, they get on. the Global and they search a staff. sergeant Tim Kennedy. It's signed a C37. and I get back. I'm on leave. I haven't. broken any rules. Uh so I took. permissive leave to to travel. Um. weighed in on Friday. So, I took leave.

on Thursday and Friday, traveled Friday, weighed in, fought on Saturday, flew. home on Sunday, and I get home Monday. morning at 6. I show up for PT and my. team sergeant goes, "Hey, uh, we have to. go down to. group headquarters." I was like, like. our group? They're like, "No, no, no. Special Forces Command." I was like, "Okay." Like, "You got a good uniform?". I'm like, "Aarginally, you know." So, we. I go in there. The only thing that was.

good was my beret. It looked like a. dumpster fire. We walk in and the command sergeant. major of special forces command of US. Special Operations Command and of group. are sitting there and they're like, "Uh, so hey, how was your weekend?" I was. like, "It's fantastic." You know, uh, we. saw that you're fighting. And I was. like, Roger, you know, did I do. something wrong? And they're like, well, you can't do both. I like I've been. doing both. I've literally done both for. the past eight years. You know, you just.

saw it as a main event fight. Um, but. like I've been I've been fighting for. the past eight years. I've I've you. know, a couple dozen fights in my. duration of here at Special Forces. They. they said, "You have to choose. You have. to pick between the two." And um I don't. want to. I was like, "No, like. make me like we will make you. This is. the army. That's how this works. You. literally have a choice. So, you can do. one or the other.

Uh, so. what was the rationale behind that? I don't know. Digital footprint, facial. recogition. I don't know. It's it's I've. always fought this like misconception. about what I'm I was 100% a company guy. They could have told me to do anything. I would have worn anything. I have. always just wanted to support the. regiment in the best way that I possibly. could. Most people couldn't understand. They they couldn't control me and that. scared them. even though they didn't need to control.

me because I would have done anything. that they asked. You're already loyal to. to the death. But they they they couldn't understand. that because they couldn't control me. doesn't mean that they can't control me. because I voluntarily would have done. anything that they needed to do for the. regiment. You want me to go on suicide. prevention, you like recruiting, retention, I would done any of that. You. know, just let me fight. you know, if. you leave me alone and let me stay on my. team and continue to deploy and go to. specialty schools and develop as an NCO.

and also win every single of the most. prestigious fighting tournaments within. the military and bring that recognition. and honor back to the regiment, which I. was doing. Like that. gigantic trophy on your wall, I brought. that to you. Like all of those ribbons, those are mine. Like I got awards for. those. Like, oh, you don't care. Okay, got it. Um, the Green Beretss have two National. Guard special forces. uh groups, 19th group and 20th group. So, as leaving active duty, the National.

Guard, they're they're part-time. soldiers and full-time civilians. So, you as an MD soldier, you work some. weekends a month, a couple of weeks a. year, and then deploy when called upon. And um so when I was trying to figure. out like well how do I how do I do both. cuz I'm going to do both. get a call from the Texas National Guard. 19 special forces group and they're like. hey come to us you can fight we'll use.

use you as recruiting and um. you get to go to an ODA. I uh the day I. got out they would if they just left me. alone pay me as an E7. salary. nice. pennies right like I would have done. anything that the army wanted. they didn't so then I go to the national. guard and the national guard pays a. contract to me as a marketing recruiting. retention tool and they're paying me. hundreds of thousands of dollars to put.

go army on my butt. no way. I would have done it for free. you know like that I would just let me. fight, man. Good for you, man. But, uh, so that was like the beginning. of then the marketing and media was a. forced position from the army saying you. can't do both. Damn. I mean, it turned out, you know, I. I How do you feel about it? I don't know. Teammates got in fights when I wasn't. there, you know, deployments that didn't.

go perfect. Um, and the the whatifs, right? like never go down that road. because that is that is just one that. leaves to despair. But like had I been. there, would this have gone different? Um could I have been part of this. operation and it you know could I have. been with Mike Gobble when he died um in. one of his many deployments later into. Afghanistan. Uh he saved my life. I. wasn't there when he died. Like would. that be different? I don't know. Um,

Andrew McKenna like. I don't know. Got it. I understand that. But UFC, yeah, I go for the title runs. So, I uh commit to fighting. I'm a. part-time soldier, full-time fighter, and uh while I'm doing that, I'm. contracting for a bunch of different um. for-profit government contractors. And um you know because I still got to.

put food on the table. So I'm I have a. skill set and my so my full-time job is. like fighting and contracting and then. I'm like a part-time soldier. [ __ ] I mean food on the table. You're. making hundreds of thousands for wearing. army on your on your fight shorts. You're contracting. Y. you got to be making at least. two 300,000 a year off that. Y. 1,500 bucks a day at the time. And uh. and you're you're in the National Guard.

Yeah. So, and then the fight purses. What? Yeah. So, what is how does it. work? How does it work in there? So, pre we'll say the Reebok deal. So, the UFC controls all apparel now. So, you wear what they want you to wear and. you get a you get depending on how many. fights you have, you get a a purse, an. apparel salary purse. But back then you. could sell every inch of your shorts and. your fight banner. So I could take on,

you know, like Trigicon or um a firearm, a knife, a I I would never do it, but. like Condom Depot or like you could have. any sponsor that you want and they would. pay you to have their name on your. banner and on your fight shorts. Then you would have your fight purse and. then you had kind of like the commercial. marketing. So, you know, as a. professional athlete and with the. military background, there were a bunch. of different commercial entities that. were like, "Hey, will you film this. commercial for us?" Like, this is the.

very beginning of social media, like. Facebook and MySpace. Um, and uh, so. like social media influencing wasn't a. thing, but. television and radio and serious XM. were. So, you could like go on there, you could record like a 30 second, hey, I'm Tim Kennedy. I'm a UFC fighter. You. know, I'm also like a green beret blah. blah blah, insert like all the cringey. things and you get paid for those. things. Mhm. So, I'd take my fight purse. I would. take my banner fight shorts marketing.

purse and then I take like my commercial. purse and break those down into these. quarters where my wife and I would then. like reinvest those monies into. businesses. Okay. Cuz we're still just living off of one. of our respective um solid incomes. Okay. And uh and she was a W2 still as a. government contractor. And as we were. trying to like buy a house and continue. to like grow our position, it was hard. to go to a bank as a professional. fighter and overseas contractor. Yeah. It's like uh no. I promise they're going.

to pay me. Like I just got to find some. more poachers or some pirates. I'm going to win. Yeah. Leave me alone. Give me the loan. But um. I mean how are you how are you managing? So you're fighting at the number one. I. mean, what did that mean to you to be. fighting in the UFC at the I mean, you. just came from the apex of military. special operations. You went to the CIF, then you had an extremely eventful. deployment in Afghanistan. Now you're you're you're fighting at the.

apex of the US military. Now you're. fighting at the apex in mixed martial. arts. Yeah. I mean, what's the sense of. accomplishment. there? There's no. like I haven't arrived. There's no. feeling of like I've accomplished. anything. Um I wanted I wanted to be the. world champion. That's what I wanted. I. wanted that Tim Kennedy is the world. champion of the world and um you know. fighting for the world title a couple of.

times. Fought for the strike force. middleweight title against Shakare and. Luke Rockold. You know, when I go into. my first fight in the UFC, I'm fighting. Hodra Gracie, like the most. accomplished, the one of the greatest. grapplers in the history of pugilistic. sports. My first fight in the UFC, a. stay or go, winner stays, loser goes. Uh, you know, to go to fight main events. against like Michael Bisbing and I I was. the last person to fight in a UFC fight. for the troops. I fought Henal. supposed. to fight Lero Machita but fought at Fort.

Carson. in an aircraft hanger as the main event. Damn, that's cool, man. For the UFC surrounded by service. members. Oh man, that's awesome, dude. I mean, the. talk about full circle. Whoa. That's got. to be. I mean that's got to be a just an. awesome experience and adrenaline just. pumping and I mean. again like I I I hadn't felt like I.

arrived and I didn't feel like I. deserved to be there and I had so much. guilt like I had abandoned all these men. and women in uniform and now I'm in. there as a prize fighter making you know. hundreds of thousands of dollars and all. these men and women are in their uniform. in an aircraft hanger for their first. opportunity to see a live UFC event and. you know it like it kind of stung a. little bit and Joe uh Rogan walks in to. talk to me after and I could barely. formulate words you know it was I I'm. sorry I love you I wish I was with you.

like that's what I. was able to get out. so you really felt a lot of guilt. yeah. damn man. yeah. fighting how how were you able to I. mean, how are you able to compete at. that level? I mean, I I I don't know a. lot about mixed martial arts and I don't. know a lot about the UFC, but I do uh. can appreciate the dedication that it. must take to get to that level. And, you.

know, I hear about these guys fight. camps and and how much time, blood, sweat, and tears goes into training for. for especially a title fight. But you don't have that kind of time. because. you're still deploying. You're still in. the National Guard and on top of that, you're doing I'm I guess I shouldn't. assume anything, but probably combat. deployments with US military contracting. companies. That's right. So, you're going to war, coming home,

what? Doing a quick fight camp and then. going right into the ring. I You could stay in shape when you're. overseas. Uh I I wrote this online uh. they were called letters from a foreign. land and it was talking about like me. doing snatches with 50 cows and running. up hills with transmissions and filling. them up ano ammo cans like all of the. unconventional training that I was doing. while I was overseas to stay in shape. and then I would come back and I would. immediately go into fight camp. So I'd. fly to Albuquerque, New Mexico with.

Jackson Winkl John, best fight team on. the planet at the time and we have Jon. Jones, Rashad Evans, George St. Pierre, Carlos, Deisio Page, um Holly Holm, like. the list just goes on and on of all of. these incredible world champions and I'm. Brian Stan and I'm one of those guys. there. Um so I could immediately walk. into this room and the best in the world. are all consolidated into this one. place. There's only like three or four. super camps on the planet at the time.

and Jackson Winkle John was one of them. And uh so I start doing my fight camps. there. I'm at altitude and I'm train. training with the best in the world. So. I come back in shape. Arguably had I taken a different. approach. It would uh that little bio. would not say twotime title challenger, you know, that stings quite a bit. Mhm. Cuz I never won the world title. I was a. perennial contender that was uh you know. on three different title runs. Fought.

for the title twice. was positioned to. fight for the third time and and um. never won. What could you have done differently? I I was always torn. I don't think I could ever have done. anything differently. Uh because like my. heart was always in two different. places. I wanted to be in Africa. I. wanted to be in the Middle East. I mean, desperately like I couldn't not be. there. And um.

then I wanted to be a world champion. You know, my this is the worst thing. about the ego. There's my ego that. wanted those two things. And um I probably didn't need either of. them. You know, how how about like being. like the best teammate or the best. employee or the best husband or the best. father? Uh I I argue that those are far. superior to these other two wants, but. those were the things that were driving. me was to be in war and to uh.

be a world champion. Are there any similarities between being. on the battlefield in the thick of it. and being in the ring in the thick of. it? Physiologically, there's a ton of. similarities, you know, like the the. exhaustion physically uh and putting all. of the all of who you are and everything. that you have into this moment, you. know, to not get knocked out or choked. out. Um, similarly, like putting. everything that you are and everything.

that you have into this moment to not. die. So, like physically, it's very. similar. Um, you know, when a. commentator is talking about like, man, these guys are going to battle. Look at. this war. man, it feels like it when. you're in there. And uh like I would I'm. never would never castigate or. disparage, you know, one of the. commentators or one of the athletes that. are out there to describe what they're. going through as you like as a war or a. battle cuz that I mean it's it's you're. out there completely raw and exposed.

You know, you're wearing shorts, a cup, tape, gloves, and a mouthpiece and. you're going to go try to knock out. another dude in a cage. It's um it's. pretty. it's pretty gladiator. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's that's as. close as it gets, right? But um I mean what were how would you. prepare yourself mentally for. you? I never similarities between. preparing yourself for going on an.

operation. and going into the ring. They're they're really really similar. you um you know that that preparation. and that training and that skill. development you know on the military. side those core metal tasks making sure. that you know how to shoot move. communicate medicate you know when you. look at the the fighter making sure that. I'm able to grapple both offensively and. defensively making sure I'm have good. offense and defense as as a striker. being able to dictate range and execute. my game plan over the their game plan. those are the same things that I'm.

trying to do in combat. um and then a big advantage that I had. was like the milit military discipline. and this very. clear approach to both business and. being an athlete. You know, I took it. like I treated it like a business. I was. 10 minutes early to every single. training session. You know, I had all of. my gear. I was at the right place at the. right time with the right equipment to. do to the right training. you know, when. when um Greg Jackson walked in for our.

first private and uh I was sitting. there, I was already wrapped up and um. 10 minutes before our session was. supposed to start and he's like, "What?". I I was about to go and like watch some. tape for a little bit. I didn't even. know that you were here. I was like, "Well, we start in 10 minutes, don't. we?" He's like, "Yeah, I mean, I I. wouldn't have expected to see here for. like 30 more minutes." I'm like, "All. right, well, moving forward, I'll be. here 10 minutes early. you let me know. if you want me to arrive later and then. set that time accordingly. And same with.

Winkl John, you know, I'm a striking. coach. And uh it was hilarious cuz I'm. in the in the gym with Jon Jones who's. on the opposite end of that spectrum, right? Like he's out partying late and. and burning it down and showing up like. hung over. Talk about the most talented. athlete on the planet, man. That guy is. the best who ever done it. And uh he. could show up 2 hours late to practice, be there for 5 minutes, and get more out. of that practice than I would have been. there been having been there the whole.

time. Damn. He's just such so superior. Is it surreal training with people like. that? Mhm. For the first time. Yeah. I mean like. like what the hell am I doing here? Rashad Evans was the champ at the time. and to like walk in like the champs. there, you know, Brian Stan who is like. one of my favorite fighters. He's a. Marine officer that uh we were in Iraq. at the same time. Kind of cool. But. watching him just knock people out with.

his right hand and then being like to. walk in and see him. George St. Pierre, you know, like one of the greatest. welterweight champions in the history of. the sport and like there's George, you. know, damn it's rad. Cowboy Cerrone. think, you know, he's in the Hall of Fame now, but and he'll probably be inducted for a. few things to include, you know, his. fight with Roy McDonald, one of the best. fights in UFC history. And uh like. that's one of my teammates. I'm training. at his house. I'm going to his ranch, you know, and uh yeah, it's weird. It's. surreal as like not even the right.

weird. Like it's indescribably weird. Again, like do I belong here? But I'm. like thumping you up. I'm like mauling. you in the corner. I hit harder than. you. You can't hit I guess I deserve to. be here. Like when's my fight date? Damn. Damn. How long would you How long. would it take you to prepare for any. particular fight? 6 weeks. 6 weeks. Mhm. Would you time your deployments to where. you had six weeks straight with them? Yep. I try to set it where I'd come back.

from a hitch and I'd, you know, wife and. I would pack up the car, drive to. Albuquerque and uh do the fight camp, go. to the fight, come back, pump, do. another pump. Had you experienced a lot. of. losses or failures up to this point? I. mean, you blew through SF Selection, you. blew through the QC course. You said. there was no challenge there, blew. through Sears School, pumped out two. crazy deployments.

Sounds like you were crushing it as a. kid, you know, and then now you're. fighting at the at the apex of, like I. said, mixed martial arts. And I mean, is that the first time you've really. experienced. failure? Yeah. That that's not like self-induced. from choices. Mhm. You know, um standing there as a. 21-year-old with a couple of girls. pregnant and no like source of income. Uh you know, that's failure. It's a. different kind of failure.

But th this this one is like in your. face. You're standing there. You're. covered in your own blood, mostly naked, and the dude next to you gets his hand. raised and he's called the champion. And. you're just standing there. You have to. go to your afterparty because like. sponsors paid for you to go there. Your. eyes swollen shut you and your hands are. swollen. You can barely hold a glass. with them. And uh you got to walk into. this room of your fans that you just. failed and let down. Um but I'm not. going to not show up, you know, cuz like.

they're there to see me. They they love. me like win or lose. Um, and it, yeah, it's it's it sucks. How do you learn from it? What did you. take from it in the long term? After the fight, you had a a fun account to follow is the. UFC fight doc. He's the guy that. stitches most fighters up. He's um he's. a cosmetic guy and you know, he'd put. the little local painkillers on these. He's in inject um some lidocaine and. he'd come up to sew my face closed and.

um he lay down on the table. He'd walk. up with the the painkiller. I like I. don't want that. So, I got this. I can. see your skull, Tim. I need to like this. is from Robbie Lawler. This is from. Jacare Souza, you know, like this was uh. I think from Luke Rockhold. And um I. like, nah, just sew me closed. And he. would sit there and he'd pull out and. he's talked about it a bunch of times on. his uh on his pages. He'd sit there and he'd sew my face.

closed. And I wanted to feel every bit. of that pain because every single one of. those things was like a mistake that I. had made. And I would carry that. I. would like breathe in this failure and I. would bring in this I would breathe in. this pain and I would ex and I would. like exhale purpose and. and this. embracing the suck, embracing failure as. we kind of move into some of the darkest. most horrific moments of my life to.

include the Mexico border, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Israel. Um, same thing, man. I would like suck in all of this. failure, my failure, the failure of the. situation, the pain that I see, and then. I would like exhale purpose. Dan. Holloway kind of coined that phrase, and. I it doesn't more aptly describe the. what I would feel and weaponize all of. that failure into purpose.

Makes a hell of a lot of sense. I makes. sense. It's hard to do. Yeah. Because there's embarrassment and and. shame and ego and. you know like and then the physical. portion of it like okay well how do I. then take this purpose and direct it. into something meaningful and. constructive like motivation is failing. Discipline and intentionality is. permanent. So I have to take that. purpose and turn it into what I'm doing. in the gym, what I'm doing in my. technique, what I'm doing in my. businesses, u what I'm doing overseas, how I'm planning in these ARs when we.

fail or do something unsuccessfully, like how do I turn that to good? Yeah. Do you did you ever. I'm trying to think how to word this. Did your coaches or your team or your. your your your opponents, anybody, you. know, the the UFC commentators, did they. see anything different in you. coming from the background? I mean, this. is a sport, extremely grueling, as close.

to being a GR gladiator as you get. Couple months earlier, you're putting hundreds of rounds into. bodies in the middle of the night. Yeah. Do they see? Yeah. a difference in the way you carry. yourself, the way you fight, the way you. train, your discipline, your motivation, your dedication. Like, is there a. difference between. what you brought to the table? Yeah. With all that other life experience that.

nobody else in the UFC has compared to. Leo Corinsky first was like, "What is. wrong with you?" As we're about to walk. out to the fight, everybody's yelling. Come on, let's go. Let's go. Let's do. this. You know, like getting ready to go. out and I'm sitting there. Are we having sushi after this fight? Cuz that sounds great. You know, having. some real wasabi, you know, not not the. fake pace stuff. And he's like, "You're.

about to fight. Can you focus on your. fight?" And I was like, "Yeah, I got it, man. Just relax." And I went out there, picked this dude up, put him on his ear, knocked him out. And um I come in the. back after my fight with Robbie Lawler, barn burner, like bathed in blood. And. uh they come and stick a microphone like. what man. How was that? That was one of. the craziest, most brutal fights we've. ever seen. You know, Robbie comes on to. like to become one of the greatest like. like George St. Pierre, one of the. greatest welterweight champions. Um.

knocking everybody out. He has the. Cinderella story of an exit. He's in. he's going to the he is in the Hall of. Fame and he'll go in as one of the. permanent halls of fame. And um. hey, how do you feel? I'm like, I feel. good. You know, they're like doctor's. taking my pulse and I'm already back. down to like a 55 heart rate and like. what is what is wrong with you? You're. like like well there's nothing wrong. with me. Just my experiences leading up. to this have been vastly different. Like. this is not the pinnacle of my life.

This is a fight and this is a sport and. I want to be world champion. This is not. the the wildest thing that's happened to. me in this in this past couple of. months. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that scared. your opponents? Yeah. I don't know if it's a good thing. either. Why is that? You remember the first time walking into. a shoot house and like it felt like. you're looking through a straw? Mhm. And then the 500th time that you went in. there and you could see everything. You.

could see that they glued a uh a. flashlight over the hand of the guy that. originally held a gun because they're. trying to have you shoot a no-shoot. target when which which was a shoot. target, you know, but you saw it and you. also saw like that was crappy glue and. it was a bad paint job. And um you. realize that the the door that you guys. breached last time, they didn't change. that door out. Now you can just swing it. open. You don't even need need to put. ECT charger. You see it all. Yeah. compared to like number one where. like all you could see was like walk. through the house like this. When I was.

walking out of the cage, I'd have to. hide my wife in the audience cuz I could. see everything. I could describe where. every judge was. I could tell you um. where my what my corner was wearing. Like I was I was seeing too much or like. I should have just seen what was in. front of me. So I think there was like. there was some value to that. Like I. never had the pre-fight butterflies, you. know, like guys were throwing up before. they're walking out, you know, like I'm. playing on my phone and um figuring out. what I'm going to have for dinner.

I mean, it's got to be. there has to be a certain amount of fear. for somebody to walk into the ring with. another man who is taken life. Yeah. Legitimately killed. for survival. And this is a [ __ ]. sport. Yeah. I mean, I can't think of anything that. would be more intimidating for an. athlete. Well, kudos to the dudes cuz I got beat. You know, Luke Rockold beat me. Jacquare.

squeaked out a decision. Y Romero, although he cheated, he beat me, you. know. So, there's uh there's a couple of. losses on there that those badasses in. light of standing across from a dude. that's been to war a bunch of times and. is like, have you ever had that conversation with. anybody? I'm I'm friends with most of. like most of the athletes that I. competed against with in my era and um. you know we we joke a lot about. those some of those things um you know. like Luke Rockold to you know his credit.

he's like man I I had no idea what I was. supposed to do with you I just wanted to. keep on the outside and and pepper you. because I didn't want to let you near me. that's what he did and that's how he. beat me you know literally that was his. game plan and um. so you. It's just interesting. It's a I mean, it's a. It's just interesting psychology to tap. into, you know. It's It's uh. I've always thought about that ever. since I've I've heard about you. So,

yeah, it's fun. Yeah, I'll bet it was. I'll bet that was. a hell of a ride. But, so what was um. what was it that why'd you leave UFC? when uh my you know my heart got broken. in the fight with Yor Romero. I knock. him out at the end of the second round. Michael Bisping is the champion. Michael. Bisping's last loss was to me. I beat. the brakes off of him for 25 minutes. And um so like this is my third title. run. You know, I beat you all Romero.

This is a title eliminator fight. The. winner of us is going to go on to fight. for the title. And um. he through a variety of of mischievous. and uh cheating mechanisms is able to. after I he gets saved by the bell at the. end of the second round um blow. some big punches into him up against the. cage. John McCarthy pulls me off him and.

um you know like I'm like did I did he. get saved by the bell or is that the end. of the fight? Like, did John touch me. after the because if John touches me. before the the bell, then I won. If he. touched me after the bell, then and I'm. I'm blasting him and he's just like he's. out. He crumbles to the ground and I was. like, "Okay, that was the round." So, I. go back to my corner and I'm sitting. there. I'm pacing back and forth just. looking at Yuell Romero as he's uh. just messed up and uh his corner's in.

there. They're they're fixing his face. The bell sounds ding. And I take a. couple of steps forward and John. McCarthy grabs me. He's like, "No, Tim, go back to your corner." So, the. Athletic Commission rules are very. matter of fact. You have 10 seconds to. answer the bell. If you don't answer the. bell, it's disqualification. And uh, as. you can imagine, I'm a man that would. know the rules. So, 10 seconds passes. and that's the end of the fight. I'm. screaming. I'm still I take my. mouthpiece out. I chuck across the. floor. I point at Dana White. I like,

"You're [ __ ] going to pay me for that. fight." You know, I'm looking for my. wife. Put your red panties on. I'm. coming. You know, and uh figure out the. after party. I also know I'm going. straight to the title. I'm going to be. fighting Michael Bisbing. I'm going to. destroy him. This is all happening in a. matter of seconds, right? 10 seconds. happens, 15 seconds happens, 20 seconds. happen. You know, like I'm talking with. my corner like, "All right, hey, um. let's get these gloves off. Let's start. getting things going." And John McCarthy. is like, "Hey, come back in. We're. fighting. I mean, we're fighting." They call it.

stoolgate. It was a a pretty um there. was a calamity of errors that John. messed up big time. He got played by his. corner. The corner spilled some ice. They put on too much Vaseline. They're. pretending like they couldn't speak. English. Um there's confusion about like. when he had to get off the school stool. Ultimately, they were able to buy him an. an extra 40 something seconds. And uh so. he he sat there for almost 2 minutes. while I'm leaving the cage mentally, he's with the sole focus of getting back. into the fight and uh a huge adrenaline.

dump, you know, like that endocrine. system's wild and I get knocked out a. few seconds later. That's the uh that's the end. That's the. That was I was like, man, I don't want to do this all over again. What the Hey, if you can't get off the. stool, if you can't get off the stool, that's the end of the fight. You don't. stand there in front of the fight. How do you recover from that?

the that was um I actually fought one. more time against Kel Kelvin Gestlam and. uh I didn't I shouldn't have I was. already done at the end of the Yo fight. but all of that. propelled me into everything that I've. done post fighting. um into starting these companies into.

you know going overseas on rescue. operations. you know, nonprofits, forprofits, like. they were like like filling gaps. It. gave me purpose. Um, got. and also ended the most selfish portion. of my life. The um being a professional fighter, everything has to be about you. your. diet, your travel schedule, your sleep. schedule, um your training, like all of. these things you're trying to line up.

from this periodization so that you're. peing at the right moment. So everything. is a and it's terrible. It's like the. most selfish thing that you could. It's. and I I wanted so to be done with it. because I wanted to do something to. contribute in a meaningful way back to. the things that I care about. I couldn't. when I was fighting. I could like. amplify because I had a big platform, you know, to to talk about things, but I. couldn't. specifically contribute.

Gotcha. So, this propels you into what. you just said, the darkest portion of. your life, which. Tim, we got about an hour left before. you got to get to the airport. So, I'm going to leave this up to you. We got a lot to cover. We could talk. about the school. We could talk about Sheep Dog. We could. talk about Ukraine, Israel, the border. Where do you want to go? Well, the I think they're all We'll kind. of I think maybe cover wave tops of them.

because they're all very connected. When. you take a step back, you know, like you know, what I was. doing in Ukraine was different than what. I was doing in Israel, which was. different than I was doing in. Afghanistan. What I was doing in those. were vastly different than what I was. doing in the military at part of. operation lonear in the Mexican border. You know, fighting cartels and human. traffickers and drug smugglers. um sheep. dog response where we're training under. the soft model of like empowering people. to force multiplication. It's the. special operations, the green bray soft. model. Like we don't want to do all the.

fighting. I want to go and find a. populace that supports our ideas, equip. and train them to do the fighting with. and and and for us. Sheep Dog Response is fully embracing. the soft approach where I'm trying to. train as many Americans as I possibly. can in really basic good citizen skills. of like being able to provide for your. family, being able to preserve and. protect human life. Like that that's. what we're all the shoot, move, communicate, medicate like we're trying.

to give those skills to civilians. And. after, you know, nearly 20 years from, well, 25 years as a EMT, a firefighter, a police officer, and then a special. operations guy, and then a government. contractor. when I saw. globally. the frail edges of the canvas and how. weak we were strategically, I knew that. big problems were going to be on the.

horizon. Mhm. So, in um. August of 2021, which is when we founded. Save Our Allies, I was on the phone. I. was I was actually writing Scars and. Stripes. Uh I was sitting on the couch. with Nick Palmo and uh my phone rings. and it was Chad Robo and Chad, "Hey man, I have a my translator is in. Afghanistan. He's currently being hunted. by the by the Taliban. They're going to. rape and murder his family and they're. going to kill him. I've been on multiple. deployments with this guy. can you get.

in there? And I my phone had been. burning down since Afghanistan started. crumbling for contract jobs like. personal recovery evacuations. And I. didn't want to be the that I wanted that. chapter of my life to end of like this. propheteer. And um I was like, "Yeah, I'll be on a. plane tomorrow." And I look over at Nick. and Nick's on the phone. Nick's talking. to Sarah Verardo. Sarah Verardo was is.

this incredible woman whose husband was. horrifically wounded in Afghanistan and. she's carried all that purpose and pain. or all that pain and all that suffering. and directed it into purpose. So she. started the Independence Fund, the First. Responders Action Group, a whole bunch. of different military nonprofits and she. has a ton of connectivity at the. Pentagon. So as I start trying to figure out how. am I going to get get into Afghanistan, Nick turns to me. is like, "You not. believe who I'm on the phone with right. now." And she is saying that we got our.

way into Afghanistan. So like divine intervention yet again. Like I'm on the phone like we're doing. that Spider-Man thing where it's like, "Wait, you got you got you got let's. go." So I booked a flight that same day. We had to fly into uh UAE and figure out. other routes to smuggle us into. Afghanistan. And um and that was literally the four. of us on the phone was the beginning of. Save Our Allies. Damn. um and it was identifying these. gaps that the US military wasn't able to.

go outside the wire at Haya to go and. recover people that had been isolated. and were unable to make it onto Haya. So. um Hamemed Karai airport which was the. final NEO the non-combatant evacuation. operation which was being run by. department of state which is a bad idea. but they're doing the best with what. they had. Um, everybody that was flooding to H Kaya. was getting stuck at these choke points.

and the people that controlled the outer. perimeter was the Taliban. So they. nobody could make it past the Taliban to. even make it to the base to get onto a. plane to be flown out. So all these. people that fought with us for 20 years, you know, these were special forces. commandos with a dozen deployments. You. know, they have TS clearances and they, you know, they fly. helicopters that we gave them. Um, they. stay, they're either going to be working. for the Taliban or they're going to be. killed by the Taliban. It's going to be.

one or the other. And then we have all of our legitimate. allies to include Americans that were. contractors that were plumbers and. electricians, you know, for KBR, Hallebertton, Rathon, all those. contractors were stuck in Afghanistan. So like they had to be brought out and. for them to be brought out, they had to. be escorted in. Well, this was the first. identified gap, which was the American. military can move logistics-wise, we. could do anything. But how do you go and. find three people, five people, seven.

people that are hiding in a warehouse. out in the city and then be escort them. past the Taliban and bring them onto the. base past uh past American lines and. then put them on a plane? That's the. gap. And that's we had four guys on the. ground and that's what we immediately. went to work doing. How did you do it? Um. I have a I have a picture of a target. On the back of the target are three. different conups.

So there's four of us. Dave was going to be staying back as. like comms for the three of us that went. to do solo singleton missions. And on. the back of a target is in permanent. marker. the concept of the operation number one. This guy is going to Eagle Gate. He's. linking up with this the agency to go. find this group of people and they're. going to be bringing him through this. guy. Number two, Tim is going to be going out. this Abbey gate. He's going to be.

picking up so and so. Number three, we're going to be going and we would do. this every 60 minutes for the entire. time that we had left. till ultimately the bombing at Abigate. happened on the 26th and they like. locked down the base. Were you there for. that? I was. What a mess. It was so bad. you know, we uh we we we. did really those men and the team back.

in DC, they're so brilliant. They didn't. sleep for for weeks doing everything. Um. again, like I was I was barely deserving. to be there being surrounded by so many. capable operators that knew how to do so. much so fast, so effectively, and so. efficiently. I'm just like trying to. like contribute in the best way that I. can. Not every mission went well. You. know, we had we were bringing in some. buses through Blackgate and there was a. miscommunication and a a commander at.

that gate wouldn't let those buses in. and everybody thought that it was me. Like that Tim Kennedy was the one that. had set all of these buses up. This was. absolutely our our operation. But guess. who are the people that were making the. calls to link up? This is at the highest. level of of government, right? like. the most elite. commanders on the planet are saying. who's getting on these things and trying. to communicate that down to a ground. captain or a ground light colonel that's.

coming from like a fourstar joint level. is uh where wires get crossed right and. uh so these buses get kicked back out. into the city and you know all those. people got. tortured and killed by the Taliban. Um, but you didn't have time to. think about it because the moment that. that gate gets closed, I had nine other. I had to run over to the UN gate to. clamber over that wall through.

Constantina wire to run out to do. another linkup with a commando that was. bringing him and another aviator on and. their entire families, you know, like. had minutes to like take a breath. Yeah. Yeah. Damn. How long were you guys there? Um. I mean S save our allies started working. from the moment Taliban crossed the the. border and started taking Kandahar and. Bram.

uh you know as. Kabool like all the way until they're. stuck at Kandahar. We were we had teams in DC that were. doing logistics and building lists and. deconlicting lists to get rid of dup. duplicate names and also verifying you. know if we brought in one wrong person. the whole thing's for not you know like. the whole thing's a failure I I could. have you know saved a thousand people.

but we bring in one terrorist done. Yeah. right. So like we had to be perfect. Um. and so 10 days total on the ground all. the way up to. where outside the wire operations were. can like I would have had to fight my. way against 82nd Airborne and Marines to. go outside of um H Kaya. So that was the. uh. you guys evacuated how many people? Oh.

man. If uh if you went into the talk that. night, they they have we we moved. privately, 12% of everybody that left, anywhere. from 6,000 to 15,000 people were moved. by private. NOS's and private contractors. you know, Pineapple Express, um the uh Glenn Beck. and Mercury 1, um obviously Save Our.

Allies, Mighty Oaks, like the dozens of. veteran organizations all mobilized. And. I and I'm never going to take credit for. us moving one because there's not one. person that moved off that air base that. was not coordinated, facilitated by 10. other groups. Mhm. you know, so like total. 15 to 20,000. man. You know, is tragic as that story is and is.

what a [ __ ] complete disgrace our. government is. Yeah. Like a complete. incompetent. [ __ ] nightmare. The fact that a few veteran. organizations were be able to would have. been able to come together and get six. to 15 save 6 to 15,000 lives against. you're more effective than the US.

government. Yeah. I don't think people [ __ ] are hearing. that you're more effective than the US. government. Yeah. That's how. that I mean that's insane to me, you. know, and. man, you guys did amazing work there, man. Yeah, we did. I can't even say their. names, you know, but like Kevin, Sean,

Sean, Dave, Nick, Sarah, like the this. group of people again, divine. There's. no way that you could. The connections. that each of us brought and the. experiences that each of us brought from. all of the different things that we've. been doing for the past 10 years made. for the perfect recipe for success. Like. had it not been us, it wouldn't have happened. you know, the. um from.

you know, Eric Prince and Glenn Beck and. like the connections that they have, you. know, Mark the these these people were. able to just move little tiny nidgets. and knobs to make this a possibility. Mhm. And um. yeah, what hell what a what a hell hole. though. You know, those. babies stuck in Constantina wire, you. know, executed women on the side of the.

road by the Taliban right in the face of. the Marines in the 82nd. Um. and we funded it. Yeah, we did. And we're we're continuing to fund them. Yep. It's um Yeah. when when Iran are we. are we a failed state. we're close. We're we're knocking on the door to. complete disaster. We we still have the best and brightest. on the planet. We're the most prosperous. nation on the in in the world with the.

most elite fighting force to ever walk. the face of this planet. So, no, but uh man, we're close. Yeah, we're definitely riding the line. Yeah. Yeah. Um, let's get into what you were. doing in Ukraine. So, we recognized at Afghan in Afghanistan. that. there is never going to be a single.

solution to a problem when you have a. gigantic gorilla that is the American. government and the bureaucratic approach. to problem solving. They're always going. to be constrained by rules, authorities, and authorizations, funding, uh, permission. Like the list of their. constraints are seemingly endless, right? But if you're small, if you're. like this small expeditionary ability, um, small digital footprint, small. financial footprint, small risk, um, we.

provide incredible asset to the large. behemoth, right? where cool, you have a. problem. We too care about that problem, but we have a bunch of different. opportunities or different approaches to. solve this problem. You got all these. constraints. We don't have any of these. constraints. Whether I'm going to go as. a for-profit contracting company, and. not once ever has anyone ever profited. in any way, shape, or form off of. anything that we've ever done in the.

humanitarian evacuation neoense. everything that we've ever done always. stays within the organization to. advance abilities and capabilities so. that then when the next crisis happens. and [ __ ] there have been so many in the. past 3 years. where I can pick up the phone and be. like. hey sir uh just want to give you an. update uh here's some current. capabilities that we have in the region. uh I have a team that's on the ground or. they're at the border or they've. positioned themselves they have this.

ground evacuation route we've set up. these routs lines. We have these. evacuation. um and evasion lanes set. We have these. boats. We have these planes, right? Like. all I do is come with assets. Tell me. how you want me to to to to skin this. for you. Like cuz I can do it as an NGO. I can I can come in humanitarian aid and. evacuate personal recovery. Um but. ultimately like with our mer with our. mission, with our purpose, everything. else is for the sole reason of being. able to accomplish that mission first.

always. no paid salaries, you know, I've. never never taken a scent. Um, neither. has anyone else that that is part of. that organization. All 100% program. funded. Damn. You were talking last night how much you. you hate NOS's and you're not wrong. When they get so big and they lose that, but when you look at a problem and you. go like, how do I how do I get Americans. out of Sudan? How do I get Americans out. of Israel after the worst terrorist. attack in their history and per capita. in American in in any history? You know,

10 times worse than Pearl Harbor. Um uh. eight times worse than 9/11 in per. capita. And but the difference was that. everybody there was raped and murdered. and tortured. Big significant difference. All the Americans, 40,000 of them that. are in Israel now have no flights to get. out. They're also, some of them are old. and they went to see where Jesus was. baptized, but they can't make it back to. the airport or they're in Jerusalem.

They have to get back to Tel Aviv. Um, every like Delta, United, American, all. those flights are canceled even though. you've booked, you've tried to book. three, four, five, six different times. and now your your card has been charged. every time. Now you have no money to. book another flight cuz your credit. card's frozen and there's no airline. that'll take you. So, how do you get. out? So, then Department of State says, "Hey, we're setting up these corridors. and these timelines for us to fly these. people out. We're going to bring them. back to, you know, back to Europe into a. safe area to get them out, but we can't. go actually out and pick them up." Boom.

New gap identified. Let's build rosters. Let's start building manifests. Let's. start moving building movement sheets. and start escorting these people in. Insert the next conflict, you know. Man, you guys are effective, you know. And yes, I do hate a lot of nonprofits. I think a lot of nonprofits start off. with a very good mission statement and. they want to do good and then they. explode.

and then greed kicks in and the next. thing you know, nobody gives a [ __ ]. about what they were doing. And. originally it's all about [ __ ] money. and taking out the competing nonprofit. out rather than. and you know in in in the way the. conversation went is when we started. talking about keeping it small, keeping. it grassroots, having you specific. investors that don't need name. recognition and aren't trying to build a. massive business. They want to. affect the world in a positive manner.

And um. and so that's that's what I was getting. at. Yeah. The the other side of that coin. that you're totally right about the. NOS's like how many times have you in. your professional career a missionary. group um you know a nonprofit Doctors. Without Borders that gets hemmed up and. they're stuck now they're captives and. and they're being used as hostages or. leverage for not just money but also. like positioning within their. government. Like it happens time and. time and time and time again. So like. they they they.

are and have been historic historically. big problems. um we are organized in a. way that we are small, we are. maneuverable and most of all that the. talent you know if you look at um the. group that was in Israel. um. JP Ryan um Nate these people are coming. from tier one the most elite special. operations backgrounds in the world and. then moved on to work for other groups.

that gave them even more skills and like. these are the guys that are that are. effectively doing the evacuations and. the rescuing. Like there's nobody more. capable or competent on the planet and. uh they want to be there. Their heart is. there to do the right thing. They've. always wanted to be able to help in a. meaningful way, but they've always had. their hands tied and and and sometimes. by by the government, sometimes by by. bureau chiefs, sometimes by be like case.

officer, sometimes the list goes on of. all of the ways that they've been. constrained. Now they just get to do. good. Yeah. And they have all the well, not all the. resources because we're small, but we. have enough resources to do the job at. the highest level. It's freaking rad. Yeah, it is, man. You know, the uh do you Dave um Benjamin. Hall? He was the Fox News correspondent. that got blown up in Ukraine. Oh, okay. I'm not familiar with him.

Um kind of peak evasion. Fox News correspondent is doing um a. segment and his car gets attacked, his. cameraman dies, he gets horrifically. wounded. Um RAD right now Ben Hall is in. you in Israel covering the conflict. there. Full circle save our allies was. mobilized by Fox to go and rescue him. out of Ukraine. So we had to first find him in the mid.

middle of this invasion in the entire. conflict. Like where is this one dude. that got blown up? He's in some hospital. somewhere and uh and he's dying and we. had to evacuate him out of the country, get him into Poland and then get. permission from the Secretary of Defense. to fly him into the military. combatant recovery. Like we brought him. to Lance to Rammstein and then he moved. as if he was a combatant into the. military hospital system and had that. not happened, he'd be dead. Um damn.

Yeah. So, like when people are throwing. stones, like the Secretary of Defense. put his name on the bottom line that we. can move this dude out of here. So, like. if you think that I'm out there doing. like some John Wayne [ __ ] like it could. not be furthest from the truth. Like, I'm doing in whatever way we can. contribute the best that we can with the. assets and and support that we have. We'll do that. But by no mean is anyone. out there being like, "Hey, look where. my name is. Like, look what I did.". Well, thank you for set setting the. record straight. I want to fight some.

people sometimes. Like throwing you and. me both, man. Throwing darts at my forehead like. trying to take a selfie. Hey, you know, everybody's tough on the. internet, right? Yeah. But um. the border. might take you down there. I would love. to go down there. Let's go. It is insanity. Yeah, that's what I keep hearing. It's. hard to believe. It's very hard to.

believe. when you see numbers when you see like. 300,000 people a month. The Super Bowl. had 60,000 people in it, right? This last couple of days ago. Yeah. 60,000 people. Then you multiply that to. 300,000 come across in a month. One month. five times the Super Bowl,

crossing our border, military age men. from every single one of our enemies, state actors moving their people across. our open border, Chinese, Russian, terrorists. See, this is multi-time. felons. This is where I get into this is what. really I mean, everything else that's. gone on, all of it. The Afghan. withdrawal, Ukraine, Russia is like it.

Epstein, like all of it, dude. All of. it. This [ __ ] when I just asked you, do you. think we're in a failed state? I don't. know how you can answer that question. and say no because. we have become so [ __ ] incompetent. in this country. I don't I don't understand how we could. not be defeated. It it would have to be. a nation that is more incompetent than.

we are. And that's [ __ ] hard to find. right now. That is really hard to find. We don't have a [ __ ] border. We are the only free country left in the. world supposedly free. Right. Yeah. And we have a wide open border. that. roughly what last thing I read six. million plus people have crossed. We are broke. We are printing our money. We have weaponized our dollar.

We have a we have destroyed the first. amendment by tax corporations. It's fake money. It's I mean in. how could we possibly not already be. defeated? That's a real [ __ ] question. Yeah. Um, what would you do if you were. Russia? What would you do if you were. China? What would you do if you were.

one of these many terrorist. organizations who, by the way, are all. joining forces against a common enemy. You know who that common enemy is? For. those listening, we're the [ __ ] common enemy. Good job. Yeah, good [ __ ] job letting this [ __ ]. happen. I wouldn't have to do anything. I would continue to.

stoke and stalk the flames and fires of. dissent, um, of racism, of every form. and fashion, of divisive issue that. Americans have right now to con to. confuse and divide us further. Mhm. Um, I would throw all of my money into. Tik Tok, Instagram, Snapchat to make. these kids sit there on those phones for. as long as I could, which they are. I. would show them that the nuclear family. is not necessary. That freedom isn't.

really a thing that's given by God. It's. something that's given to us by the. family, the or by the government, which. is another thing that they're paying for. us to see on our phones often. I would. uh I would finance and support uh. political opponents that would um. want to fight American values and put in. other forms of governance that are. wholly against the American ideals and. the founding fathers would have. imagined. I would uh try to support the.

expansion of the federal government. These are all the things that I would do. if I was the adversary. And that's what they're doing. They. don't have to do anything. They just sit. back and hang out and watch us just eat. ourselves. That's that's what I'm getting at. You. know, we we I just. I don't know how we pull out of this. I. don't know. I mean, we talked about we. talked about at the beginning before the. cameras got turned on. You know, people. people think something people thought.

something was going to happen at the. Super Bowl. People think, you know, how. how come nothing's happened yet? You. hear one side of the aisle mocking. people that are concerned that our. border is wide open and and and mocking. them because nothing's happened yet. We've had we've had three years where. there has not been any terrorist attack. Well, let me tell you about war games. and simulations. They inject they put they put these. things through a simulation. It shows.

the probability and the percentage that. they're going to have to come out on. top. What's you know maybe today they. have a 65% this is hypothetical maybe. maybe today in the simulation they they. they they feed it all the information. and the simulation says hey you got a. 65% chance you're going to come out on. top against the US. Yeah. But right now we are a failed state. We. are completely incompetent. And so why would they take that time to.

attack us right now? Why wouldn't they. up the percentage? Okay. Well, let's. let's let's put a little bit more people. in this way. Put them up in this region. Let's get let's let's infiltrate the. power grid over here. It's weak. There's. no there. you can't even arrest. an immigrant right now. Even in this state. Yeah. Exactly. And so it's all they're. doing right right now is strategy.

They're just infiltrating, doing. whatever they need to do to get that. percentage up. And then when somebody. strong comes in and the [ __ ] starts to. get cleaned up, that's when it's going. to happen. Yeah. So, how do you fight that? Um, I I argue, you know, for the Titanic, which was headed towards that iceberg, had they known and they just made a. slight adjustment, just a couple of.

degrees, they would have avoided that. whole entire iceberg, right? No, none of. those people. Is that is that what we. need to do? Just the the slightest of. adjustments? Does that pendulum need to. swing back once again towards. sovereignty and freedom? You know, the um the the founding of. Apogee, our school, was in that same. vein. the founding of Save Our Allies, the founding of Sheep Dog Response, like. all of these things. All it takes is. this entrepreneurial American spirit for. we as a collective to be like, man, we. acknowledge that this is not right and. this is dangerous and for us to combat,

for us to have a strong America again is. for the individual to be a strong, competent, capable individual, right? not to be fat, not to be this gelatinous. mass that can barely read, that just. sits there and swipes on their phone and. looks at porn all day long, doesn't know. how to use a rifle, doesn't know how to. purify water, doesn't know how to be a. an intentional, disciplined parent to. their to their children or a a loyal. entrepreneur that's going to be. dedicated to his employees and his.

colleagues and his partners and the. companies. Like this is when you look at. the founding fathers. When you read that. beautiful decoration de declaration of. independence and the bill of rights like. these these were written by Americans. that stood on the core values of what it. meant to be an American. They were not. educated at some Ivy League university. but they wrote a document that will. stand the test of time. And God I need. Americans to recognize how vulnerable we. are. Everything that you just said right. now can be fixed. we adjust just a.

couple of degrees and people take back. their sovereignty. They start growing. their own food. They start having their. own chickens. They start getting strong. in body and in mind, they're they are an. ungovernable force. The Americans, the. essence of being an American is. ungovernable. We are rebel. We are. rebellious. uh traitors from our origin. Let's. remember what that looked like. They told us to do something. We said no. and we put their tea in the harbor. Then. then they went to Boston and that shot. that was heard around the world kicked.

off us killing every single one of them. and kicking them off of this continent. That is what Americans can do. You mess with our boats in Pearl Harbor, we dropped two atomic bombs. Yeah. There's only so many Americans left. Yeah. Unfortunately, but you know, I think. that uh. kind of where I'm going with this, how. do you fix it? I think you're you're doing it trying. the youth the school. That's right. Let's get into the school that you.

started and how that's developed. Yeah. Um so Apogee uh the first school. was Apogee Cedar Park and it was. literally a brickandmortar Socratic. school and um man year one was hard. Did. uh I did everything wrong. I thought I. knew how to run a business having run. ran a bunch of businesses and running a. school is pretty different. Then year two kind of like learn from. our mistakes like a phoenix rising from. the ashes. We we adjusted. We also. realized that we have to expand the.

the influence. So we went from just. being a brick and mortar to online. mentorship. I partnered with Matt Budro. and we started Apogee Strong and we. brought in thousands of people in the. online mentorship program like how to be. leaders in your community, what. sovereignty, financial sovereignty, physical sovereignty looks like. Um, and. then from that mentorship program, we. said, "Hey, we want to expand this. Apogee school idea. Who wants to open a. school?" And all of these owners stepped.

up and and ro raised their hand like I. want this in my community. So, we have. been training and mentoring all of these. school owners about in 2024 we'll open. another 50 schools and um and then all. of again back to doing the right thing. with money and and being small enough to. to make sure that you're aligning with. your purpose and and direction. motivation. um taking all of those funds. and putting them back in to then help.

other schools launch and to build a. larger campus to be able to mentor more. people. So until we until we bring the. Department of Education to its knees or. completely abolish them, you we haven't. produced something from public school, I. I yes, there's outliers and there's. anomalies where like extraordinary kids. are going to always rise, you know, but. you take that same kid and put them. anywhere, they're going to they're also. going to be. wildly successful. It's the the the mass it's the 95%.

and they have just been turned to. useless masses. the consumers, laborers, um tax meals. That's it. I don't need those. We're a bunch of tax meals. But, um I'm really interested in this. school. And so, one question I have is I mean this this. how when did you start that? Three years ago. Three years ago. And how many schools. are there now? We have 50 launching in 24.

And how many are there right now? One. One. Yeah. Okay. So, we went one year 1. mentorship launched year two and. expansion happens year three. Year five. we'll be at 300 schools. Wow. So, how do you how do you fil. how do you filter who's coming in to the. school without. getting sued? Yeah. You know, because this [ __ ] seems to. just bleed in everywhere.

Yeah. Um we we have one the people. opening the schools. they are part of the mentorship program. So we've spent months and months and. months the going to live events with. them training with them talking to them. learning about their values making sure. that their vision aligns with the vision. of the school. So we we have you know. Matt has. hundreds of hours with these new school. owners. um on the and then on the. mentorship side when we are advising. about how they're going to be accepting.

families, you know, we have this. gigantic waiting list. We're we're. accepting applications for 24 school. year for Apogee Cedar Park. So, you can. go to apogeecedpark.org. and put an application right now. And. when you put in an application, you're. going to be entered into a this big huge. funnel and and there's these gates that. you have to go through. Here's a reading. list of books. Here is you coming in to. tour the academy where we get to do a. face to face with you. Um, here is you, the your hero, your kid, getting to go. into one of the studios and spend time. with the teachers and the other heroes.

Um, I love kids. Um, and they're also. innocent. They're not great liars. So, when they're in there for a week, they're interviewing with the whole. entire studio. That kid goes home. We. get to ask all of the kids. And these. these Socratic minds, these critical. thinking minds, they know like they're. amazing, brilliant, truly brilliant, genius little kids. And when we go like, "Hey man, what what do you what were. your impressions? What do you think?". Like, and we we have a bunch of series.

of questions. We have Socratic. conversations of like um you know, you. would he be of value added to the. studio? What does he bring that would be. useful and that you would benefit from. that you would learn from him? what are. some things that you think would be kind. of a detriment? And listening to an. 8-year-old in a very clear way. articulate why that kid is good or bad. for the studio, man. Like, wow. W That's good. It's a learner-driven. environment. That means the leaders of.

that studio are the kids. You're also giving these kids freedom of. thought. Yeah. Without any. repercussions. There there's. What do you think about this? All questions are open-ended. So, they're guides, not teachers. In every. single one of the studios, not. classrooms. In the studios, like. Socrates, he wasn't telling somebody how. to do something. He was asking. questions, open-ended questions for that. person to think through their answers. and critically devise the solution to. the the question that was being posed by.

the leader, by the guide. So, I'm not. going to say, "Hey, we're going to add. mulch to the playground. This is how. much mulch we're going to add." I'm. going to go to the kids and I'm going to. say, "Hey, what mulch do you want? How. much volume of mulch will you need to. make this 3 in deep?" Okay. If the. thickness of the mulch, like, you know, a sand compared to a gravel compared to. a rock, is that going to change the. amount of volume that we're going to. have to order? Like, we have so we have.

just done these kids so dirty cuz we. they're so capable. They're so much more. capable and they're so uh there's. fascinating study done by NASA and MIT. They took a bunch of kids preschool. They started tracking them saying which. ones could problem solve at a genius. level. So take something, give them a. problem and you provide them with. existing solutions. Which ones could use. the non-existing solutions to solve the. same problem. And the longer, long story. short, the longer that these kids were.

in school, the less capable and less. genius they ever were in problem. solving. Are you kidding me? No. 100%. Google this right now. It is. the most mind-blowing study. The final. conclusion was the the longer these kids. were in public school, the dumber they. got, the less critical thinking and. problem solving were they capable of. Um, and MIT and NASA were like, "All right, man. Let's just let's just kill the. study. Yeah, let's sweep this one under the. rug. You go back to the origin of public.

education with Rockefeller saying, "Man, I don't need anything. I don't need I. don't need a critical thinker. I don't. need a collaborator. I don't need an. innovator. Um I don't need somebody that. that that can create. I just need. somebody that can work. I just need a. laborer. I just need somebody smart. enough to show up to my factory and do. the work to make me money." That is the. origin of public education. Yeah. And. every day since then, it's just gotten. worse. So, you have two options right. now. You open your own school or you. homeschool your kids. That's it. How do.

you I'm really interested in this. I. mean, I told you my idea last night and. I I don't I don't want to take any time. up explaining my idea, but um how do you. vet. the I'm sorry, I know that what what do. you how do you the teachers? What do you. call them? Guides. How do you vet the guides? Yeah. in in a really similar way. Uh, of course, like the background check and. the social media scrape scrub, um, the. the drug test, all of those things. But. most importantly, the people that are.

applying are when that first email comes. across, hey, I'd really love to come. work for your school. I am leaving. insert this place that I currently have. been a guide or a teacher at for this. amount of time for these reasons. Now, I'm going to ask five very basic. open-ended questions. and these. open-ended questions about like very. similar to that kid showing up to the. studio and saying, you know, as he's. auditioning and interviewing against all. of his peers, uh we the last thing that. we need is a teacher in there, you know,

how are you going to be at a peer-by-er. level be be able to guide these kids. through here's a problem? And uh and. they're they're open-ended narrative. questions. And when we interview these. guides, it it's very evident which ones. get it and which ones don't. Um my first year, major mistake, I hired. teachers. I went and I bought I bought. the highest fanciest.

um you know, with the best resumes and. like awards for this and this, but they. weren't aligned with this vision. And uh. catastrophic failure. really. Yeah. And. what are some of the things that you. saw? Um, when. a critical thinker that can't sit at a. desk, that needs to move to problem. solve and is going to think in a in a in. an atypical way. That teacher who can only do something. linear, but then something that's kind.

of chaos and. anarchy in an approach to a solution, they literally can't process. So they'd. combat it and they'd stifle and they'd. stuff and they'd stomp and they'd stop. where instead we're supposed to inspire. and supposed to to to to give um. resources and if they fail it's fine. like if the kid fails. you will learn from that failure and I. don't need to have every kid passing in.

a session. I just need that kid to grow. I just. need that child to evolve and to um. continue down this road of becoming a. critical thinker. They can do anything. Like if you can program manage and you. can critical think, you can do anything. Mhm. So like why don't why aren't we and we. haven't been in education doing anything. besides teaching kids how to take a. test? I'm not I'm fairly certain I've.

never been I've never been to war and. I've never walked into a ring and I've. never started a business that I was like. given anything that was useful that. resembled a test that I ever took in. school. Why don't we prepare them for what real. life looks like? You know, you were talking to me about. some of the. some of the curriculum and you were. talking about some type of an exercise. that you had these kids doing where they. were building their own business.

Y. what age group was that? First, second, third, fourth grade. Can you go through that exercise? Super simple. We had a business fair, a. date set. So, in 2 months from now, we're going to go to this business fair. or we're going to go to a farmers. market. Everyone in the studio, you have. to create a product. You have to create. this product. You have to market this. product and you have to bring this. product to market. Then at the end, you're going to come back to the studio.

and you're going to give a brief about. the performance of your product. So, one. one little girl got took a loan from her. parents, bought mason jars, got kinetic. sand, and then built themed uh. environments in every single one of. these kinetic sands. So, like one of. them was like green and brown kinetic. sand. She put all these little dinosaurs. in there, and she sold them for $25 a. piece. The cost of her product, like her. out of pock pocket cost, was like $3, you know? So, she's making $22 for every.

single one of these sales. and she sold. a whole bunch of them at the farmers. market and she paid her parents back. Then she took her profit and gave her. presentation. Here was what I spent. Here's how much my booth cost. Here's. how much the the cost of goods were. This is um the loan that I took. This is. the interest that I paid back. And. here's my profit. Right? And then we had. another one that took um he went and. collected all the sheds off his parents'. ranch. And he trimmed them and cut them. with a skill saw, which is kind of cool. How many kids know how to use a skill. saw? put screws through them with like.

nice little fancy washers with this big. huge industrial screw and turned them. into hardware. So, it's like a bolt that. went through it on the back you could. screw in the nut uh with another washer. and you would have like this axis uh. handles for your cabinry. He took those and built them and sold. them as sets like six and eight and 12. depending on how many drawers you had. for within your bedroom and uh sold. dozens of sets and made a ton of money.

He had almost no overhead besides some. bolts and some nuts and some washers. So, he was almost pure profit besides. the the the cost of him renting one. table to put at the farmers market. And. uh so success, massive success. And then. this other kid went and like took some. sticks, some branches that he thought. looked like guns and tried to sell them. at the farmers market and made no money. cuz nobody bought them. Like I think his. his uncle bought one and you know out of.

charity. And he went back and he had to. brief everybody in his class and he was. embarrassed. And I remember being. embarrassed. I remember failing. I. remember not doing well on a stelling. spelling test. I remember all the times. that I failed were the moments that I. learned the most. And I will argue even. though the two success stories, sure they made some money and they. learned a ton about how to do business, their their parents were super involved, but that kid that sat there with shame. and embarrassment learned the best.

lesson of them all. And uh everybody's. walking out of the studio. Parents are. mad because you know Tommy didn't do. great in his presentation where he lost. time, lost a little bit of money and but. most of all was embarrassed cuz all of. his friends were successful and instead. being able to you know just position. switch the perspective and be like but. look at what he learned. you know and are you excited to see what. he's going to do in this next one?

Yeah, but it's on you parent. Like. there's no teacher that's going to sit. here and hold their hand and do this. work for them. And it is not your job. parent to do all the work for them. It. is your job to help them be able to. learn how to do this. It's your. responsibility. It's nobody else's. responsibility. Government's not going. to teach your kids ethics, grit, integrity, and hard work. That is your. job. So rise. How many how many kids are in.

the school roughly? Apogee. So 24 I think will probably be around. 3,000. 3,000. Yeah. Between mentorship, um, physical. locations, brick and mortar schools. That's incredible. So if I wanted to. We're not We are like just getting. started. I know. I know. That's what that's. what's so exciting about it. I I. I mean, Literally like the second first. year was a real rough start. We're in.

our we're in our our second year right. now. You know, we're three years into. this, two years of actually doing it, right? Yeah. And um we're going. it's I mean it's obviously spreading. like wildfire. Yeah. So, you know, I want to know if I want. to bring this to Franklin, Tennessee. Yeah. What do I do? You go to apstrong.com. We launched a a documentary yesterday, like an hourong documentary talking.

about public education, talking about. our purpose, talking about our vision, how, you know, Matt and I are. approaching not education, not. schooling, about creating critical. thinkers. And um so you're going to go. to apogee.com. Uh all the people that. are going to be opening schools are. going to come from within the mentorship. program. Um they there will be very rare. exceptions cuz we have to know. everybody. Like if we don't know them. personally and we haven't spent time. with them, you're not going to open a. school. So like we have to have the rapport and.

relationship and trust and faith that. you're going to be doing the right thing. um to continue to spread this vision. So. if you go to Apogee, you get on the. mentorship program. Um and there's a lot. we demand your big reading list. You. like you're journaling, you're working. out every single day. Um, we're asking. questions about intentionality as you as. a parent and you as a as a as a husband. or wife in your family. Um, and it's a. full family approach. Like this isn't. hey you leader of the household. It is. you as a complete family nuclear family.

as a family unit. How are you. approaching raising the most powerful. influ influential children that you. possibly can? Man, you are doing a lot of good stuff. Hope so. I'm trying. And if not, I'm. going to go crazy. No, man. I'm um we covered a lot of. ground there. Yeah. And um I wish we had another 6 hours to. uh dive into some of this stuff, but.

as we're walking across Big Bend in uh. southwest Texas towards the Mexican. border, we'll we can talk more. Right on. Well, I'll meet you down. there. But Tim, I just want to say, man, um. I'm really happy that our paths have. crossed and and uh it's an honor to know. you. It's an honor to be able to get. your story out and um man, I'm just uh. I'm blown away at all of the good that. you're injecting into this world because.

we sure as hell need it, man. So, thank. you. Thank you, man. Thanks. Thanks for. having a voice, dude. I'm I'm I'm proud. to know you. So, thank you. Keep on killing it. All. right, brother. Thank you. [Music]. How many of you have logged into your. Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, whatever your. streaming platform is, only to find the.

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