Thomas "Drago" Dzieran - Navy SEAL / The Terrorist Terrorizer | SRS #189

when our fifths open on the ambies. Hol. that was like whole hell broke loose. I. could shoot the guy but he was not. armed. As I'm working with the guy the. cal comes in. Hey Drago to stop the. grown guy element is moving on the. backyard and there are three guys in. ambush lanes. I'm going to knock his. front teeth out and I'm going to make a. necklace out of it. So actually I woke. up to him. I like very carefully lift. his upper lip and just drove his two. front teeth in. just pulled them out. And did that affect you at all? Uh, no.

No. Killing never affected you. [Music]. Drago, welcome to the show. Thank you. for the invitation. It's honor to be. here, brother. It's an honor to have. you. So, we have a ton of mutual friends. and I've I have heard about you since I. was in the SE teams and uh you just have. a phenomenal reputation and I can't. believe we haven't not crossed paths.

until today. Well, you know, I was. watching you and I watch your channel. I'm subscribed to your channel. But um I. never thought uh you know some small guy. a little guy like me will show up over. here because you know the guests that. you have there's like world class. leaders, world class people. So I never. even thought about it and here I here I. am. So uh I guess miracles happen. Thank. you brother for invitation. I would uh. disagree with you. You're definitely not. a small guy. So, he's a quick bank and.

you're still 65 years old but still. holding my 65. Yeah, I'm 65. Wow. Well, you know, I mean, this is how the show. started, you know what I mean? Was was I. don't Nobody's a small guy, you know, that we have on it. True. Some people. don't have the exposure that that that I. think that they should have. And um you. know, when I started this, that's that's. how I that's how I wanted it to be. I. wanted to get guys that have and women,

you know, that have had phenomenal. careers and and in in very interesting. life stories and have been through a lot. of just a lot of everything, operated at. the highest level, traumatic. experiences and and how they got out of. those because I think, you know, somebody like yourself that brings a lot. of hope and and and I mean, we're both. very aware of what's going on in the. veteran community right now. You know, I. think we're up to what 40 40 veterans a.

day commit suicide. And uh I think that. you know this show and and getting. stories out like yours, it it it puts it. on display and it brings it brings. veterans from all. walks an example and and it it just. proves that there's a way out of that. out of that rut, you know, in that gap. from service and to finding success in. the civilian world and and that they're. not the only ones that are going through.

that kind of experience. There's a lot. of us and um and I'm one of them and I. know you're one of them and pretty much. everybody we've ever had on this show uh. from a military standpoint is also one. of them. And so I've been you know I saw. when your book came out and I've been. kind of watching you from from afar on. social media and uh I just I think. you're a great person and so it's an. honor for me to have you here as well. Thank you very much. It's it's great to hear it. Uh, I.

appreciate your kind words. I'm just. regular person. I'm American. So, I want. to be like you guys and uh that's what. drives me. You are like us. Cuz you are one of us. I am right. I'm American. Yes. Yeah. When I'm before we get When did you come. over? I came in 1984. So, how old were. you? I was 24 years old. Uh, so I was. leaving Poland. Uh I left prison when I. was 23 years old and uh then I came to.

US embassy. I asked for help and I was. given status of political refugee and. flown to the United States when I. started my life. The funny thing is I. came to America not knowing English. having no money. I had a 10 phoenix. German uh coin in my pocket and bag of. clothes. Wow. Well, we'll get super. indepth on that. But to start off, everybody gets an introduction here and. a gift. You know you got a gift coming.

if you watch the show. But Thomas Drago. Giran, you're a Polishborn warrior who. grew up under communist rule. You spent. two years in jail as a political. prisoner for standing up to regime that. tried to silence you with censorship and. oppression. You came to America in 1984. and became a US citizen in 1991. You're. a retired US Navy Seal who served with. Seal Team 2 and Seal Team 4, running.

over a 100 direct action missions and. Iraq is a lead breacher. You are a. recipient of the Bronze Star with V for. Balor. You are the founder of the Navy. Seal Fund Giving back to the Brotherhood. and Connect Zing, a platform fighting. for free speech. You're the author of. the book The Pledge to America. You're a. husband to Rachel, who is an Air Force. Academy graduate, father of four, and. most importantly, a Christian and devout.

Catholic and American and American and. American. So, everybody kicks it off. with a gift. So, those are Vigilance Elite Gummy. Bears. Thank you, brother. Made here in. the USA by Americans. You mind if I just. open it now? Adam, let me know what all. about sweets, you know, like my I have. embargo on sugar and sweet things at. home. Uh but since my wife is not here,

then. what do you think? Oh, I love it. Perfect. And then. um since I found out you're a Catholic, I wanted to give you. this. So that uh do you know Dom. Razo? He was a he was a two. He's my. generation. I know the name. I cannot. connect with the face yet. Yeah, he's I. know what it is, brother. Thank you. I'm.

Yes. He's a seal and he he uh has these. warriors rosaries made and and uh he. gave me one a long time ago and um I. carried her everywhere with me for. protection. I have mine right here is. beautiful but thank you my but is also. very important uh important for me for. me has extra meaning too. So I really. appreciate it. Yeah, you know, I think. that just, you.

know, I grew up Catholic, then I kind of. fell out of it, you know, in the SEAL. teams. I think most people did, and then. um kind of found faith again a couple. years ago. And uh I'll tell you one. thing, I just think the Catholic. religion has it right when it comes to. protection and uh and talking about. demonic entities and and all of that. kind of stuff. So, I carry mine. everywhere I go. But yes, but um so I. wanted you to have one. Thank you. I.

really appreciate it, brother. Dom's. been. uh Dom's been a mentor of mine when it. comes to Dom. Yeah, Dom. I know we. talking. Okay. Okay. I got it now. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Dom. Hi, Dom. I mean, I Yeah. I just like if. you hear it. Yes. I know. I know who he. is. Yes. Cool. Uh, and so before we get. too in the weeds on the interview, which. I can't wait. I have an a subscription. account on Patreon and we've built it.

into one hell of a community. I think. we're at about 60s something thousand. members now. But, you know, when I I was. telling you and your wife downstairs, I. started this in my attic, and it was to. it was to basically shine a light on on. veterans who who've just who have done. amazing things and are doing amazing. things now. And back then when I was in. my attic, nobody wanted to touch me. Uh, nobody wanted to fund anything, advertise with me. And so,

um, and I needed some income, you know, to grow this. And uh so I started a. community on Patreon and. uh that community has just carried me. all the way from the attic of my house. to the amazing team that I have today to. this to this studio that we're in now. And now we're we're building a 7,000 ft. studio out in the woods. And and uh. those that community has just always. supported me and always supported our.

guests as well. And so one of the things. that we do is uh we offer our tier three. members the opportunity to ask each and. every guest a question. And you had. quite a few questions. Okay. So this is. from Eric. Alger. Do you see any parallels between. the tactics used by the communist regime. in Poland and what's happening in the US. today? And then there's a follow on and more.

importantly, how can the average. American recognize and push back before. it's too late? Thank you. That's very. important question. I'm glad you. somebody asked it. So yes, uh not right. now at this point, but in previous. administration, there was a lot of. things that to me seems like deja vu. from socialist state run by communists. I'm saying socialist state. Poland was. never communist country. People need to.

understand it. Neither was Soviet Union. communist country nor any country behind. iron curtain was ever communist country. They were socialist state very dangerous. totalitarian socialist states but they. were run by communists. It is we used we. say there's communist state communist. communist country but in reality they. were socialist state. That's why that. distinction now that is being made that. communism was bad but socialism is good. is very dangerous distinction and yes.

there many things that happened in uh in. the last I would say four years were. very very disturbing for me and I talked. to my wife about it quite often. Uh uh. so we agree that something needs to. change because we going to foul fail. like Europe felt uh uh uh with the. western Europe right now into deprivity. and perversion. What are what are some. of the things that stick out to you that. you Yeah, censorship is the first one is.

is the big one. It is easy to explain. for um people who censor that the. government doesn't censor you. It's just. private organization like Facebook that. was heavily censored like LinkedIn. I'm. still being heavily censored. U but the. the the problem with it is that they are. being coerced by the government and this. is the very disturbing stuff you know. like I'm running my own social media. platform and definitely I censor people. posting anti-American posts. I don't.

want them here and they are faster than. lightning gone from my platform. But I. think that uh that censorship is very. dangerous. Branding political opponents. as a criminals as a terrorists is very. dangerous. This is the same thing. exactly what I experience in a socialist. Poland run by communism by communists. like my father. Uh um so the the. censorship.

also denigrating moral values, denigrating. patriotism, denigrating the family. values. It is important for socialist. state to take control of people. But it. reminds me the same thing uh that. happened uh in Poland when I was growing. up. There is another thing too I would. like to mention. In America people do. not understand very well concept of uh. desensitization desensit.

desensit desensitiz desensit. desensitation. desensitization. Yeah. Oh I could be a. president president Biden. So I'm. getting better. But anyway, so uh they. do not understand the concept of. desensitization and normalization of. evil and that's what it is. So first you. talk about it, you give the different. names whether which is benign and then. you enforce the and normaliz normal.

normalize the evil and and the entire. process. I give you example with walk. What is walk? Yes. What is walk? Well, if you talk to somebody and tell that. the teacher is walk a little bit walk, it's not really. alarming. Um, it's just like, look, maybe a little bit strange guy or woman. But if you look behind that word, what. it represents, what is what is it, what. this word work is hiding, the dep the. private and perversion, that whole uh uh.

process takes different meaning for most. of the people. is different when you. hear my oh the teacher is a little bit. of work but the teacher is pervert that. definitely perks your attention and and. say maybe I don't want to send my. children to this class. Mhm. But so this. type of techniques is not well known and. described here in the United States. because people were never exposed to. evil of socialism and communism on mass. scales and uh let's hope it will never.

happen but so those are the the things. where I talked the censorship branding. political opponents as a criminals and. terrorists attack on moral values family. values and most important faith. this. these these things that happened the. last four years uh were very disturbing. for me because I knew where it leads. I. I knew what can happen if it if it. continues. So yeah, you know, I think. the I think the the other question.

that Eric had was, you know, how can the. average American push back before it's. too late? There's many ways to do it. One of them uh we are the for for. socialists for the for the evil we me. you we are lost generation we are all we. don't change they attack our children. and this is what they are after it so. today nowadays uh after seeing what is. happening in our schools it is no longer. enough for parents to ask child hey no.

how was your school today oh mom dad it. was really good okay go play you need to. be inquisitive. You need to find out. what is the child is being taught, what. is being done to him. And you know there. are great schools in America but also. they are perverted schools. You need to. intervene. And this is why there is such. a big push from the evil side to get. control of our children. So we need to. take this control back. And if school. doesn't let you change the curriculum,

more perverted teacher, you need to do. it on your own. You need to teach your. own children. I'm homeschooling my. children after I found out that school. was teaching 73 genders and other. perversion of perverted way of thinking. uh to my kids. So we pulled the kids out. of the school. Not everybody has uh that. um has meaning have meanings not. everybody has meanings to homeschool. their kids. People have to make a. living. They have to work and they work. hard. At least you can come back home.

instead of spending time drinking beer. Maybe you should spend time with your. child, ask him what he's doing and. correct what what school did wrong to. your child. This is important. We cannot. go we don't need to concentrate on. ourselves. We know our val moral values. are pretty much at this age immutable. But our kids are very vulnerable and we. need to be that example for our kids and. stand up to to to to the depravity and. perversion throw on our kids in our some.

of our schools. Interesting. Excellent. answer. And uh you know it's it seems I. moved up here from South Florida uh. where there's a a massive American Cuban. population and they're all saying the. same things. It it seems like anybody. that you talk to that moved here from a. communist country or a socialist, uh. maybe not all socialist, but Venezuela, Cuba, Poland, um they're all saying the same stuff and. um it's really it's just really.

interesting to hear and I think it's an. important conversation. So, we live that. we we live through it. Those people live. through it. They've seen the dangers. they seen the results of the such. depravity act like communism and. socialism. So they they do shine. warnings but again the censorship with. today's technology and government. coercion takes its toll so people don't. hear about it and don't know about it. Uh so yes we need to be more proactive. and especially with our children. Thank.

you for that. So uh Eric's a huge fan, the guy that asked the question, Eric. Alger. So, if it's okay with you, I'm. going to have you sign this at the end. of the interview. We're going to send it. to him. Uh, I'm sure he would love that. Part of the reason I do what I do is for. my family. I want to leave them a better. country than the one I was born into. I. also want to make sure they are taken. care of financially. And that's why I. make it a priority to help protect the. money I've worked so hard to earn and.

save. And one of the ways I do that is. by diversifying into gold and silver. Precious metals have been a store of. value for thousands of years and they. are known as a hedge against market risk. and inflation. If you're interested in. learning about how precious metals can. help you, you should reach out to my. partners at Goldco. They're an amazing. company. They support this show and I. trust them. Right now, they're offering. a free gold and silver kit. All you have. to do is go to shanlikesgold.com.

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and information are not a substitute for. or alternative to seeking care from your. healthcare providers. All right, let's get into the interview. So, born in. 1960, growing up in communist or. socialist at that time. Well, we call it. communist. It's commonly non-communist. I just there's a technicality here and. people need to understand what we call. communist states behind iron curtain. those are socialist states run by mostly.

by. communists we can call it communist. state I call it do sometimes what was it. like growing up in in Poland. well first thing uh to realize is that. in 1960s when I was born it was only 15. years from the second world war. So the. entire generation of people who went. through the brutality to the through.

holocaust to experience war personally. live in that societies in Europe in po. I'm talking in Poland even more so. because uh Poland lost around 6 million. people there's 1/5if of population. during second world war murdered by. Germans uh. and that was. very I would say they were dangerous. time. I don't have a bad me I have more.

nostalgia nostalgic feelings to this. time when I grew up but I remember now. when I from the perspective of being. American living here in peaceful society. uh I remember. how and I realize how sometimes. depravity was taking over the brutality. was taking over people were ready to. fight uh on the on the moment notice I. here you look somebody in in the eyes. and say hey hello say hello in Poland.

they would say what the [ __ ] are you. looking at that was the times that the. typical reaction would be and uh so. fightings be beating people on the. streets was nothing unusual unusual it. was frowned upon nobody were like brutal. vulgar people but it was very common to. the point that when there was a fight on. the street and usually you go on town. and you can see two three fights if RG. go through the town. Um people learn to.

just across the street that they didn't. even bother to call police. So it will. later play role in my upbringing when I. get a little bit older. But 1960s was. very um very brutal time for Poland. It. was the big transition from the wartime. uh uh brutality experience society to. peaceful more peaceful society. And it. was also hindered by the socialist and. communist ideology that uh the. transition was not very smooth in.

Poland. So and also talking about it uh. I. experience both the both worlds the. living as a privileged kid when my. father who was a highranking communist. and government official. So up to seven. years old when I was growing up with him. being in at home in home. Then when he. left and the poverty the the. the lifestyle that I experienced for the.

next decade is is nothing unusual in. Poland but it for me was a stark. difference. And then I was sent to my. father when I was I believe 16 years old. to Why did your father leave? Uh well my. father was communist he was entrenched. into their idolatry and my mom going to. church with us was not acceptable to. him. There was two things. One was a. fear that he can lose his career as a.

communist and as a member of Polish. government at the time it was frowned. upon going to church especially having. family and kids going to church. Why was. it frowned upon to go to church? Because. church is very dangerous. The faith is. very dangerous for socialist state. Faith gives you a a roots a a moral. basis that are basically immutable that. you have that morals that communists. can't most likely can't change. So this.

is something that uh they that the first. attacks in the communist state was on. faith usually and children and uh this. is why they try to eliminate this and. the faith is dangerous concept for. communist and socialist and you will see. that um if you read the history of. socialist states the first attack. usually happened on people's fate and. and and their families. I think we saw some of that here. Yes,

we did. In the last four years. especially, there was something very. disturbing for me and we need to be. aware of it. How did your father leave? Well, he decided as very dangerous uh. for him for his career to stay at home. with mom who was devoted Catholic. My. entire family, even his own mother, they. were Catholics and they didn't approve. what he was doing. I'll tell you later. when we get to it. But um so he was uh. decided is that's not his way of living. He wants to make career as a politician.

He wants to make career as a communist. And when I was 7 years old, he decided. to leave and he just took off leaving. us. Me and my three the two siblings. So. it was three of us and my mom. So he. abandoned his three kids and his wife. Yes. Yes, he did. And now as a. communist, he died as a communist 2021. when I went to visit. His his views did. not change. He would be ready to murder. people on the spot if if they were. opposed socialism and communism. Wow.

But I will talk about it. We get to it. His view was very extreme when you get. to know him. But when you didn't know. him, you would think there's a great. older man is somebody you would like to. have for the neighbor. very well uh uh. spoken, very uh commanding Polish. language extremely well because he was. the that was his major and uh in in. in university. So very nice man until we. start probing his views and his.

internals. uh internal uh thinking that become very. disturbing. That's somebody you would. not want to have as a neighbor. So, so. growing up, if he grew up as. a peasant, as a Catholic, Yes. or a. believer. Yes. I mean, what what was it. that got into him that changed his. entire view? Do you know? You know, it's. it's hard to guess, but this is my uh. understanding of it. So, he grew up in. peasant family, very uh very poor. And.

uh what he was offered by the communist. state is hey we make you somebody we. make you somebody big and you can. progress with us but you need to discard. the fate and to discard the all the. attachments that are super they call it. superstition. So you need to be free man. they call it free man. So to accept. socialism and communist ideology and. they were like helping him along the. way. He was uh very smart. So uh he he's.

doing very well. He was doing very well. at school and eventually. they grab hold of him and uh he like. many other polls uh gave in. He gave up. his faith, his moral under his moral. views uh and accepted. so-called relative morality. There's. another term that is not very well uh. not very popular here and not very well. understood yet. uh so he subscribed to.

so-cal relative morality and uh that's. where things start changing that's where. um. people that when he become uh the person. he was later in his life what was it. like for you when he left so there was. dramatic change right the way in the. first place uh what did he say to you he. didn't say nothing he just didn't show. up wow So yeah, we didn't know where he.

was. Mom tried to hide it from us. And. at that time in Poland, there was also a. stigma of for people who were divorced, especially for the kids. They had a. special name for divorcees. So I. remember parents saying, "Hi, this these. kids are divorcy. You don't want to play. with them. They they got the parents got. divorced. Stay away from them." So I. remember that and uh that was uh. very for me I learned to cope with it. but at the time I I see the kids didn't.

want to play with us so that was kind. of way the way it was you know that we. just that was the reality and I didn't. know any other so and so I mean but also. life was different too because from. abundance of everything from the legal. protection because you know when I was. kid I burned the wheatfield. by accident. Uh we were playing with. fire, baking something in the fire in. the middle of the witfield. So we burned.

the entire witfield. So of course the. neighbor comes in and uh cuz I will I. was living in the outskirts of little. town Nagura that was established in 1200. year 1200. So it was beautiful town. So. I burned the witfield. So when a. neighbor came to complain about it, my. father said just face him out and say. look you you've caused problems. you. you'll have a secret police coming and. talking to you. And actually they did. send uh the goons from the secret police. to explain this guy that we are pretty. much untouchable so just leave it and.

plow the field again. Wow. This is how. bad it was. But I didn't know anything. about it. It was just my father was uh. trying to I guess protect his family the. way uh it is it is happening in. socialist totalitarian states. you know. you don't agree with I'm have more power. if you don't agree with me I will send. the police on you and you get either. arrested killed or disappear so that was. nothing uncommon. interesting but then it changed when he.

left so I had no protection if we did. something wrong we should get punished. for it and my mom would never agree with. it my mom was always and that was the. biggest fights that with between the uh. the the my mom who was devout Catholic. and my father who was totally opposed to. any type of faith. He only believed in. the party and communist ideology that. was his that was his god. So they were. there was always fights and I remember. the time that was before my sister was.

born. So I had to be at least 3 years. maybe around four years old but I. vividly remember that my grandmother uh. from my maternal side came to visit us. and of course she was even more devout. She was like I would say total fanatic. uh and uh total zealot but you know. those this is how they survived the. second world war. This is what helped my. grandmother and her children my mom. survived the second world war. So when. she came in she chas us all of us to.

church. We are going to church Sunday. So my father I still remember standing. in front of the door with hand. outstretched and say no kids not going. to church. Uh, and you are not going to. church because if somebody sees you or. kids, I'm going to lose my career. I'm. going to lose my job. You are not going. to church. So, my grandmother went. outside. We were living on the first. floor. My mom passed me like a football. through the window. So, um, I thought it.

was fun. Like, wow, you know, let's. play. And, uh, then my mom left. We did. went to church but my father eventually. learned to tolerate it but he was always. on the edge was always nervous always. wanted us to stop going to church. He. called the uh um the the religion a. superstition and also he used a. technique that I see being deployed here. very often. Basically he was trying to. find some articles some quasi scientific. articles like okay we just find out new.

things about Jesus. Let's see what's the. we believe Jesus was real and I can pig. your curiosity especially if you start. reading and it's like totally antifaith. article or book. So my father was. bringing it up and just try to either. shove it for us to read or read it try. to read it to us which against protests. of my mother. But this is the technique. they used to Wow. to to actually. uh remove people from faith and uh. change their beliefs. How many you So.

you had two siblings. Two siblings. My. younger brother and younger sister. Um. my sister still lives in Poland. actually. I visited her uh not too long. time ago when I went to uh uh as I was. testifying, but we're going to come back. to it in in in the criminal case uh in. Poland against a judge who actually. sentenced me to prison time. Where's your brother? My brother lives.

here. He's here in the States. He's owns. his business. He runs his uh great. business. He's doing well and u he's. doing good. I don't really have much. contact with him. Were you are so you're. not close with your brother? No, no, I'm. close with I'm closer with you guys with. people like you with fellow teammates. They the they are my brothers as just a. person living in the states. Were you. close with your siblings growing up? Yes. Yes. What would you guys do? Did. you guys have any fun or was it Yes, I've had a lot of fun. You know the the.

nice thing about it at that time we did. not have we did not uh have that direct. strict supervision of our parents. Kids. used to play like I was what 6 years old. and I was going to uh kindergarten by. myself. I was working like the around. the school going over the. um the major street. Actually one of my. little friends was killed on that street. uh by the by the motorcycle. But we are.

we're doing ourselves. So we had the. like house shoes in one hand holding. hands with my brother and just walking. to the kindergarten. There was maybe. like quarter mile and uh through the. woods to the not to the woods but. through the like different small. streets. Mom taught us how to across the. street. You look left, you look right. There's nothing happened. You just go. fairly fast to the street but don't run. And u and then we did 6 years old play. Yeah. As long as we were back at home. before dark, we were fine. So we were. roaming the city. We were just sometimes.

we find ourselves like a mile, two miles. away from the home, god knows where, running some streets and just exploring. So that that was that was cool. Uh. playing with fires now. We like we like. to uh bake things in fire, potatoes and. stuff. This is how I burn the wheatfield. in by accident. But that time his father. was still with us. After he left, I. wouldn't get away with it. So that was. the I have a fond memory. I was poor but. I didn't know they was poor. I thought.

they was just normal. This is how. everybody lived. And I didn't see at. that time they noticed the richer kids. or kids uh of party communist party. members that I noticed later in the in. the elementary school. That's what How. did your family make money after your. father left? My mom was a teacher. So. she had a little salary. It was not much. and there was not enough to was enough. to buy food if she was quick enough in. the morning to stay in line to buy. bread. If she was a little bit late, by.

the time she made to the end of the. line, there was no bread. So, we didn't. eat. But again, it was really not a big. deal. It was just, well, we don't have a. bread today. Okay. Do we have bread from. yesterday or something? No, we don't. All right. So, maybe some potatoes. So. my mom always tried to make something. out but sometimes went hungry to hungry. to school and there was really nothing. there. When I was in elementary school I. learned how to help myself and actually. feed myself but it's like I'm not very. proud of it now but at the time is I was.

sick I was extorting extorting. sandwiches from the kids of the. communist party members. So how would. you do that? Well I just beat them up. and I told them you you give me the. sandwich. Um but I remember you know in. Poland the time like people don't want. to be seen as poor right so a lot of us. like including me like my my sandwich if. mom got the bread very often was a. little bit water sprinkle on it and. sprinkle sugar if it was good we have a. butter of those butter a little bit.

sugar if the sugar was put together and. so like I don't want people to see it. because I see some of the kids eating. these big buns you know with ham with. tomatoes was my sh I mean there was like. today I'm just looking at this like I. would eat one too. So this is something. that um I've seen it I didn't want them. to see that having like bread and and. little bit sugar on it. So or it is. another technique too like take a tea. and like put the tea on the bread put.

some sugar on it. I still like. that. And and so we were eating in the. corners like I don't want nobody to see. that I have like the nothing sand. sandwich, nothing. And most of the kids. did too. I didn't notice that, but then. I was when I start feeding myself of the. communist party towards uh uh little. kids then uh then uh yeah, I notice. other kids doing the same things that I. did. And there's a story like this still. touches my heart, you know, when I when.

I talk about it. Uh. because the first one I remember I seen. the kid like little fat kid with a big. bun, you know, with this like with. everything on it. If you had the. sandwich today, you would say, "Damn, that was really good." So, um I say I. walk up to him and just like took it. from his hand just rip it half and just. eat it like wow this is good. He was. about to cry up there. But like, hey, listen a little [ __ ] Tomorrow you bring. two sandwiches like this because how how.

old? So you grew up I was 7 years old at. the time. You grew up You grew up. fighting for food. I grew up fighting. Well, I didn't have to. If my mom find. out what I did, I would be I would be. spank. I I would I would be spang so. hard I would be able to sit on my ass. But uh that's why I was I had to hide it. from her. She would not tolerate it. Mhm. But yeah, but you know I I was. hungry. So I figure out these people the. the the party member members kids they.

have everything they have that you can. tell them the way they dress the way. they carry themselves the way what they. and what they eat the most important. So. I figured I will just help myself. He. has so much. He has abundance of that. bread. So I'm sure he won't he won't. mind money if I eat half of it. So, so. yes sir. Yeah. I woke up to him and he. says I told him that if you don't bring. tomorrow two sandwiches you won't have a. sandwich because I will eat entire. sandwich. Today I just ate half. Well he.

brought the two sandwiches. He he found. me himself and just gave it to me. So so. as from then on it came to the point. that I had to dad ate that started at. seven years old. Seven years old. Yes. Well, and then. so I started noticing other kids doing. the same thing and there was a kid in my. class in the first grade who we call him. all kinds of names. This guy was smaller. than rest. We we torment this guy. We're.

talking about bullying and um so and. it's brutal like you have no empathy. At. least I did not have any empathy for. bullying uh to to the kids that were. bullied had changed. So one day um so he. was like the the the black sheep in the. class. Nobody want to talk to him. Even. those poor kids, other poor kids, they. call him all kinds of names. So one day.

I was just coming back from uh uh from. from school and I had to travel across. town. had to take a bus then another bus. and travel to to travel to travel home. and. um I don't know that was I think second. grade when I noticed that and my boss. took off. I was too I was late. So I. start walking home and this kid is. walking and he's already scared because. now I'm walking behind him and uh and. you know we we determined him but I said.

like well you know what hey what's up. where are do you live somewhere here? You don't wait on the bus. I say no I'm. living like uh maybe like quarter mile. from here on the say well cool. So let's. let's go and start talking to him and um. find out that he you know he's just. trying to survive with his mom. He. doesn't have a father and my curiosity. pig. I said, "Hey, can I just where do. you live? This building once we made to. his place, he say I'm going right here.". So, let me see how you live. I was. curious. So, okay. So, walk walk in like.

one room like half the size of this room. here. Um there's a table, there is one. chair and one bed. That's it. And the. sink. sink like the you see in the. janitorial closes there deep sink when. you keep them up and stuff and uh and on. the table dirty table there was a full. can of cigarette but bats. So I say oh.

okay well. uh I see one bed where do you sleep? I. say I sleep with my mom because we. cannot afford another bed. So. um you know this is something that still. touches me because this guy was uh we. gave him so much hell. And then I say. okay so where where do you eat? I see. one chair. I say I eat on my mom's lap. So then he says I say okay well where's. your toilet? We have a toilet outside. So where do you keep your food? There's.

I don't see any food. Well we eat every. day the food. So we don't have any we. don't have any reserves. We don't have. any leftovers. So I say hm okay. So this. is actually when uh so then I think I. was in the second grade or something. changed and I say okay well I hook you. up. So uh so then I went to another kid. who I knew has like the same type of. sandwiches. You can tell these kids that. dress better they they have better food. So I got say hey look tomorrow you bring. two sandwiches one for yourself one for.

this kid. So he mouth off to to me and I. just beat him up and uh drag him in the. toilet up there because and because in. Poland during the breaks all the kids. walk on the hallway just they have to. walk. So I drag him in the toilet and. just beat the [ __ ] out of him and say. tomorrow we'll bring the two sandwiches. and he did. So I say wow that worked. So. I gave him the sandwich. I said look. from now on he will bring you the. sandwich. if he does not, you let me. know because I'm going to give you half.

of his sandwich or just entire sandwich. to you. He was very grateful say I don't. know what you do it and then you know I. didn't let uh other kids to touch him. I. didn't let other kids to bully him. anymore and it changed. So from then on. um I think I look at the kids a little. bit differently than uh than until this. time. And that was in second grade. There was a second grade. Yeah. But I. was pretty violent too from the. beginning as well. I remember in the. first grade when we first class up our.

class become uh like when you go to your. first grade. So they they divide you. Okay. You class A, you'll be with this. group, you'll be with this group, class. B and C. So one of my friends from. kindergarten, I say, "Oh, this girl has. a crush on you. She I think she's your. girlfriend." I got so mad, but not at. the kid, but at the girl. I went to the. girl, just kick her as hard as I could. She fell down. They took her to the uh. the nurse room. And uh and this is.

another lesson that I learned very. quick. So she came back all crying to. class. This first time in the class, in. our lives, her name was Busha and she's. crying at the bench. And I was like. somewhat cows until my mom walked in. She was a teacher at that school. So she just look around the class say. look at me and say who did you hurt an. entire class like I said that girl right. there. So I I was pulled by from the from the.

bench by the ear that method in in. Poland at the time walk in the middle of. the class my pants were dropped and I. was being spunked so hard for so long. time until I broke down start crying. when I start crying, she said, "Okay, now put your pants up and go out there, apologize." So, I did when I apologize. and then I got spang again when I get. home. So, I more explanation why don't. do that. I never did again. And um that. worked. Uh but yeah, so that was things.

that uh that the the times that I still. remember that still affect me sometimes. And the second grade later we moved when. I when I was living on those away from. that school. So I had to take the bus to. school. Uh this is where uh my father. was already gone. So the kids start. picking on me. So on the way to school, usually not because it was early in the. morning, on the way back from school, I.

get my ass kicked sometimes by the older. kids. They just thought this funny to to. beat up on me. So I feel like, okay, I. don't have a father, so I don't have an. older brother to go and stand up for me. I just have to handle my own. So what I. did, I went and find like a rebar. Maybe. there's a that big rebar and I start. carrying it with me. I was carrying the. in the in my book uh case when they uh. on the way back I I could expect they. they will harass me. They will try to. kick my ass. So um I had this thing with.

me in my bice and I knew they already. walking this group of kids is walking. behind me. So I walk into in Poland. those buildings they were like fairly. new buildings at the time. You have a. stairways. You walk into the stairways, you go up and then you walk to your. apartments. So I just walk into the. stairways and just wait with this thing. in the first kid walked in. I hope he's. alive today. But anyway, so that was it. And uh. so I knocked him out. Yeah. The blood.

was everywhere. I remember that. And. then uh the other kids ran away. And the. next day the repeats itself. The guy was. okay I guess because he show up with the. head band-aid. Um so same thing happens. again. So I just walk into the I see. these kids walking and already making. those war warrior grunts. like so um I walk into the stairways. just wait until they walk in. I got two. of them this time. So they left me.

alone. After that they decide well we're. going to find another victim. But what. it taught me is that violence works. Violence always works. And if it didn't. work for you means you didn't apply. enough of it. So that's the that was my. lessons that I think the first lessons. from my childhood that you just have to. be violent to to accomplish things and. that if you can that violence works and. you just need to apply it in the right.

place. Wow. So, but I was what 8 years. old, 9 years old. Those are the first. lessons in my life. But society was. brutal at the time. It's not excuse. I. get a lot of flack now in today's. society when I talk about it in Poland. There were podcasts in Poland that I. went to and people are very disturbed. that uh that that how kid like this 8. years old almost killed somebody that is. so violent. Well, they don't understand. that there were different times. Uh I'm.

not but the way I look at it today is. this is good. The police society is. different. They don't tolerate violence. You know my mom wouldn't tolerate either. but there were things that she did and. um that was that was my upbringing. And. when I see today people complaining. about this and pointing out how bad evil. it is, I agree with them. And but I'm. also kind of happy that they can speak.

to it that they can verbalize this and. there's they don't afraid to speak that. there's a government goon government. goon somewhere behind them looking to. how to put them to jail or how to uh. persecute them. They can speak their. mind their minds they don't have to. agree with me and very often they don't. And um I'm kind of happy about it. because that polish society is slowly. changing more like in America where we. can speak we don't have to look over our.

shoulder. Uh well maybe not the last. administration but we don't have to look. on our shoulder. I tell you know you. know what even the last administration I. never felt that I'm saying something can. put me to prison to jail. You know, I. can say something I can lose my job, but. I'm not uh uh because being the I never. put myself in that situation, but uh I. never worry. about being What would get you thrown in. jail in Poland for Well, you could stay.

in the line for bread like my mom and. you complain that let's say there's. never food. There's never enough food. for people here. What this government is. doing? Well, if there was a neighbor who. next to you or somebody who knew who you. were and overheard it and he was working. for secret police or he was a snitch, you could get arrested. It it there was. nothing unusual that police show up on. your doorstep. They took you on the.

police station say hey tell us about. your comments here in the bread line or. tell about your comments in you made at. your work uh about the disparaging. communist party members. So in my book. actually I I describe that the the case. when one of my uh fellow political. prisoners was testifying in his defense. His defense was not defense, it was. offense. It was actually uh laying. straight truth to the judge and judge.

event I remember judge asked him well. but this is offending the party member. Do you think it is right? So you can see. that the the way the the socialist state. work up there. So you go put you to. jail. Um, you know that that was like. people were afraid the most to get on. the political list in Poland because. once you find yourself there, you had. always uh you were always that. troublemaker, the anti- socialist, anti-communist. Wow. Take it. You know,

you had mentioned. people disappearing, being murdered by. the sounds like the state. Did you. witness any of that growing up? Even. today, even today they are still looking. for the mass graves of some of Polish. heroes who were executed by socialist. state. Just I think recently they found. the grave of. uh big Polish hero Rotis Pilki, Captain. Pilki uh the man who volunteer uh to go.

to uh be locked up in ours so he can. write reports what's going on up there. and then he escaped after a while and. but those reports went to the west on. Churchill desk so they knew what was. going on present camp. So this guy later. fought in Warso uprising in. 1944. Uh uh he became a hero in in in. Poland. So after communist took over, he. was promptly arrested and uh executed uh.

sentenced to death and executed like. many many people. And his grave was. never found I believe until recently. But there are still people that are. missing and their graves are being found. in the prison yards digged in somewhere. in some uh unspicuous forests in places. So people are still looking and there's. a IPN uh organization in Poland the. government organization institute of uh. uh Polish remembrance where they uh.

pursue still the the the searching for. Polish heroes who disappeared under. communist regime. So there was nothing. uncommon to disappear. And also please. remember that comm every communist. system whether in Poland socialist. system whether in Poland whether in uh. whether in East Germany, Romania, Czechoslovakia they had their those. almost given every four or five years.

the upheavalss. So in Poland was 1956, 1960, 1968, 1970, 1976. The people were went on the. streets and they were more the. protesters. They were brand. insurrectionists, bandits, terrorists. and shot at. So every so many years this. upheavalss happens and every time that. happens the new crew comes in and say.

okay socialism is great these people. just didn't know how to social how to. work in socialism system so we're going. to replace and sometimes that government. before was either killed or in prison as. well and the new crew come in to build. the better the the real socialism and. repeat itself every so many years and. every time the new crew, the new gang. came in, the socialist gang came in and. they were telling people that we will do.

it the right the socialism the right. way. We will build socialism the right. way. You know there you never hear in. and this is another thing people need to. know they were not communist states. never they didn't even pretend to to. build communist states even in Soviet. Union you can see if you read the. literature from that time they all were. building socialism not communism. communism. is the way my father explained to me is.

just a stepping stone to further. societal development ment into communism. but you cannot omit socialism the. socialism is very necessary step so. that's that's how it happened and you. mentioned about the ask me about the. parallels I've seen a lot of parallels. in the last administration that were. very dangerous and I was I was. afraid spring is here and while. everybody else was hibernating you were.

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Food and Drug Administration. These. products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or. condition. Are you familiar I'm just. curious side tracker. Are you familiar. what's going on in Romania? Have you. been following that at all? Yes, this. the USAD with European Union this banned. the election they they uh they removed. the candidate. This I'm saying the. European Union reminds me more the. Soviet Union right now than than uh uh.

with totalitarian control than the. European Union that at its inception. I. mean look at it. people are getting. arrested in European Union for Facebook. posts and it's not like well maybe. somewhere you heard about it's. documented you can see on the even on. the on the videos there's video when. police coming in arrest people for. Facebook posts let's say in great. Britain um the decay of that society is.

immense and I don't know how long they. will last but seems like the days of. European Union are number I think uh. that's maybe not that good. But you see. there what happened in Romania, you see. what happened in Georgia, you you see. what the assassination attempt in. Slovakia uh when the president fits, Prime Minister Fitz barely survived and. uh same thing in uh 2014 Ukraine. So the. US us and uh there's another. organization to working hand to hand.

with. it I think. END that did a lot of harm to people. trying to subdue them and convert them. into the uh compliant masses. Yeah. So. yeah sounds sounds like it's on the. cusp. I mean, we went I went over to. Romania to interview Colleen Joescu. He. had a commanding lead in the in the. election. Then they froze the election.

Yes. And then I guess they unfroze it. and they just pulled him. Yeah. He's not. running anymore. They just completely. pulled him. This is what I called like. here people don't don't hear this term. We call it socialist elections. Socialist elections are elections where. communists and socialists always win. So. there's a socialist intellectual and all. the mechanism behind it was uh you know. if you would accuse let's say in Poland. was the same mechanism you you cannot.

vote somebody who you really thought. could be good person or politician you. have you were voting for people that. they told you to vote and uh there were. the mechanism was set up this way that. no matter. what that person would win elections if. you notice in Eastern Europe first thing. they did when socialist grab the power. will start changing the rules and laws. to give them the advantage and give them. the opportunity to falsify election even. if they have to to to stay at power.

because they know after four five years. of their that socialist communist. ideology people have had enough. They. did not want any of of of that and any. of these Marxist goons. And in Poland. when I was growing growing up, I. remember people would hang those. Marxists from the Latin posts if they. could get away with it. This is how much. hate it was. But there's always segment.

of the society like my father that go. get along to go along and try to uh stay. afloat and uh they will uh they will do. whatever it needs to take to stay in the. control and control the society because. we need to notice. that most of the atrocities committed in. Poland were not committed by Russians. were committed by Poles. They were. trained in Soviet Union by and not.

necessarily Russians. There were. different nationalities, Ukrainians, there were Bellar Russians uh who were. in Soviet part of the Soviet Union at. the time who trained and who uh in uh uh. installed that type of the government in. Poland at the time. So in Poland that. the the most atrocities that happened. were committed by Polish communists and. polls. The Soviet Union uh the most I.

think no other nation experienced the. atrocities and danger of. communism, socialism more than. Russians. They were the biggest victims. of that system. So there was no uh Poles. murdering Russians. There were no. Ukrainians murdering Russians. There. were Russians killing Russians because. evil ideology will do it to you. This is. when you subscribe to so-called relative. morality. And this is what uh you become.

part of the system that will actually. twist you into this type of behavior, this type of morality. So that's very. dangerous. When did you So when did you. get sent back to your father? I was uh I. think I was 16 years old at the time. Uh. I was still at the eighth grade of. elementary school but my mama just could. not afford to feed three kids. So she. say you are the oldest one so we can go. We sent you there and I didn't want to.

go but you know I had no choice. The funny thing is so father came picked. me up and we we travel from my city lots. to after the all the court proceedings. were done to his apartment in Warso and. I remember his wife opened the door he. said okay so he's uh uh he'll be living. with us from now on I can remember the. screams like what what are you talking. about nobody's going to live here with.

us so so you know the tension already. started that was not very pleasant and. they don't walk into the house and. there's you see this this weird woman. screaming and yelling. Uh but I had no. choice so I stayed there and um she had. a son so she was you know giving me a. hard time so I was beating up his her. son and it was kind of like equalizing. The more I get punishment from her the. the more I beat up that other kid. And.

uh eventually I I had had enough and uh. and they had enough too. So they kic me. back to my mothers and those one year. Also I could see at the time my father's. uh mental uh mental state and his his. values system he value. system like I say mentioned earlier here. when you seen him you would think well. this was a nice clean man well spoken.

and uh educated man somebody like would. be great to have as a neighbor but when. I start talking to him. I remember I had. a conversation at the time. that he says uh I asked him you know. what if people were resisting socialism. and communism what. how there are some people who will not. buy into it I don't buy into it well he. says well we have a methods to convince. people. we we will make them do that but if that.

doesn't work uh we have prisons so well. if the prison doesn't work if you still. don't change him. The social is such a great system that. is worth the sacrifice. So we just. eliminate physically these people. That. way they don't interfere with us. implementing such a great system for. everybody. And once people get into the. socialist system, they will love it. We. just need to eliminate people who oppose. it because they derail our efforts. So.

he wouldn't mind to these people being. killed. And also what I didn't know at. the time, my father was responsible for. censorship in Poland. At the time he was. a minister of art, culture, art and. culture in Poland. He was a director of. the department for theaters, movies and. libraries. So um if you wrote the book. that my father did not like, your book. never showed up. Not only that, if if.

that book was uh skeptical of socialism. and communism, none of your books were. ever showed up. And if you argue about. it, you could end up in prison. So, uh. movies, somebody pointed out not too. long time ago, older person, that do you. know that your father was responsible. for censoring the very popular comedy. that was in Poland at the time, Samis. Foy. It was named like. All Translation. uh he was responsible for removing parts.

of that movie and he was arguing with. the director that this this does not. support the socialist point of view. doesn't it opposes uh what we would say. uh the nice transition to socialist and. communist society. So we need to cut. this this and just all the people where. to cut that movie and they had to. comply. I didn't know about that movie. I knew that he was censoring things, censoring books, censoring artists. So.

lot of h the things that happened in. Poland at the time in postwar era was. you either could adopt the art and. people to socialism or you eliminate it. So there were statues that socialists, the communists like my father decided. they do not support the communist. narrative, the. ideology why just destroy it and remove. it so people don't know about it or. change the meaning of it knowing that. out. had creating the let's say that painting.

had this on his mind. Well kill the kill. the outer and explain people what really. we think that picture means. So that was. just normal methods and if you were not. in line with the socialist state, the. terror state, you were cancelled. So not much different that could happen. today that happened today under last. administration. So I'm talking about. last administration. I know we're going.

to get a lot of flack for it and I think. f the YouTube may flag this interview, but I don't know. It's a bottom line is. that a lot of that things that happen in. Poland like you asked me earlier is like. de was like deja vu from uh was like I. could extrapolate on what is happening. in the United States under last. administration. The difference is this. that America was built by free strong. people. the the the culture of freedom,

the understanding of freedom and the. yearning for freedom is so strong that. it's not as easy to subdue and change. and and derail it. So people survive. that four years and now you can see you. see what is happening. people are. raising up of their uh I would say. standing up again against some of the. methods used by the uh by the previous. administration and they have to because. if we fail we have no place to go.

wow how how often would your dad and you. have these conversations quite often. because how I I wasn't a good student so. uh always to get him off my back whether. I didn't do the homework work or the. homework was bad. I asked these. questions and we start arguing about it. and I just roll him up and uh and but it. also allowed me to understand a little. bit uh more the way he thinks and it was.

scary thoughts at the end. The guy has. no scruples. uh in implementing the ideology that he. was subscribing to and he want everybody. to subscribe. If you didn't, he will. force you to do it or he will eliminate. you so you don't derail other people. from it. It's very dangerous. But this. is how they operated at the time. They. you could lose your job. Uh you could. and you will not be able to find your. job. You couldn't open your you could.

not open your business. You couldn't. attend the college. Matter of fact, the. education was very big thing for. communists and control of the students. So to get to college, uh if you were not. a a member of youth socialist. organization, your chances were smaller. to get into university than somebody who. was activists and and uh. uh uh uh openly.

uh how to say it virtue signaling that. he's a communist and procommunist. So. these people were sought after and they. were given priority to join the. universities. There were also people who. did get into. universities being opposed to communist. system but they were very rare and few. in between. So they control everything. and they controlled the from the. schools. It happened to me uh you know. when I was in fifth grade I remember. this was the time fifth grade is a time.

when kids in Poland had to start. learning Russian language. it become. part like math, polish, physics, uh. mathematics, you had to learn also. Russian. So me not being the greatest. student, I got pissed off because I'm. hardly have a time and the ability to do. homework from this math, physics, the. the the Polish language and now it's. Russian. So I just don't don't like it.

And I piped up at the school. I say, "Why do they teach us? that the Russian. language we don't speak Polish very well. yet and on the top of it is a language. of occupiers. My grandmother always. called the Russians occupiers at the. time. Um so I didn't think much of it. It was nothing political at the time. about it. But the repercussions were. because the teacher walked right away to. my bench and grabbed me by my ear and. holding my ear through the whole hallway. took me to principal's office explained.

what happened. And the principal got on. the phone and called police. So the. police came but on the way to school. they stopped by mom. This is fifth. grade. Fifth grade. Yes. So what was it? Fifth grade is like 12 I. guess. Something like that. Yeah. So. they they they detained my mother. They. brought her with them. So there was two. secret police. There was two police in. uniform. There was four of them. My mom. was sitting in the mail I guess uh in. this small car they were driving. So.

they came they started yelling at us you. know and they told my mom very straight. if you don't instill more law more love. to socialism in your kids we're going to. take them away we will educate them the. right way and uh you know don't do it. and there won't be any warning you if we. run across that similar situ similar. situation like this uh your as a parent. you your parenting will be done my mom. cried I cried because I didn't know My.

mom was crying. I I was a little scared. But uh you know being kid I really. didn't still. conceptualize what was really happening. until later my mom explained to me. But. this is something that from then on my. mom was always before I was going to. school say do not talk politics at. school. Do not because they want to harm. our family. Do not talk politics. And. that was before we were leaving the. school in the morning to school in the. morning. Every time I heard this just.

that reminder uh that tells you the fear. people were living in of the. totalitarian socialist state and I was. not the exception. I mean now my friends. were giving the same advices because. when I talked to them they said were. like my mom told me not to talk about. politics because it's dangerous. So yeah. that's happened. Wow. Well, you know, you see a lot of. that going on on the West Coast right. now, you know, with with that. And I. mean, Washington, you know, if if you. don't subscribe to the to the gender.

confusion stuff that's going on right. now, then the state will come in, take. your kids, take your kids. Yes. And also. the cases where actually kids were being. converted in their gender. That's what. I'm talking about. Yeah. behind parents. back. The parents even didn't know about. it. So, and I'm aware of the case where. girl uh where the boy was transitioned. behind parents back and eventually.

committed suicide because of the all the. things you know this is something that. is very tragic. and but I think we need to stand up to. it. We need to understand what is going. on. We need to understand that. normalization of depravity. um especially if you have a therapist. that they are not allowed to treat. mental illness because it's politically. incorrect and you can lose your license. It tells you how far some of the groups. in our society have fallen and that's. pure evil. This is what I'm talking.

about that this is not the struggle. between the Republicans and Democrats. Really, there are good people on both. sides. This is struggle evil against. good, good against evil. And evil is. not a intellectual concept. It's not. something you just think about. Evil is. real and we face real dangerous times. right now because seem like sometimes. the the evil side, the evil has upper.

hand. But you know I'm looking with hope. and I understand that this is not going. to take roots in America. America. American psych is much stronger than. that. You can throw these things on some. people. Some weaker people will cave in. but America's and American people will. not. that that. uh uh freedom on which America was born.

from which was born the the quest for. freedom quest for the being strong. independent is much stronger than evil. we will win America will win. and so so when you moved in with your. father and his was it his wife yeah was. more I already learned my techniques too. uh uh how to extort sandwiches. I was by. this time I was extorting wines wine and.

drinks from from from from other kids at. school. Well, it didn't started this. way. I just didn't know much better. I. was doing boxing at the time. I was. training box and uh I decided to uh I. remember one time on the uh football. field um soccer field. There was some. little kid making a little kid, not a. really little kid, but he was like at my. age making fun of girls. So I was trying. to be like a tough guy, a whole guy, but. just knock him out. But well, I didn't.

know the guy was part of the gang at. school. And they said, "See, they in. war, so they had those gangs." So I then. they they surrounded me. I say, "Okay, well, we just hit our guy. So we're. going to go and uh we we need to talk.". Or I didn't wait. I just knock another. one. So that just put them on on on the. back foot. But then uh they say, "Okay, now to mend our case, we'll cause you. any problems. You just bring us a bottle.

of wine." So I say, "A bottle of wine? I. just knock on the next one of you. I'm. not going you're not going to get [ __ ]. from me." But then I was thinking like, hm, they kind of work like I used to do. with sandwiches. So maybe I should talk. to them. So I did get them wine. I did. get them wine. And then we start. extorting wine from other kids. So. that's that was the again violence. works. It didn't work for you means you. didn't apply enough of it. It has no. place in American society. I have to be.

open about it and I have to state it. openly. It wouldn't work here. America. is different. And uh but at that time it. worked for me. So. So it lasted with your dad for about a. year. Yeah. And then you got sent back. at what age? 17 now. Yeah. No, that was. like 17 going uh Yeah. 17 years old. Yes. So, but before I I get so before I. get back to my mom, uh I finished my. high my regular elementary school and uh.

the high school that I went to was very. sought after. Only kids with with the. best grades could get to it. My grades. was like the the worst of the worst. But. I had a father communist father. So just. take one visit at school and I was. greeting like a hero at school. Just. come on in, pick your class, you know, what do you like to do and so so I was. treated like very well and but again.

didn't last long because uh uh. eventually they his wife got tired of. me. His kids got a lot of bumps and. black eyes many times. So they just sent. me home and then I started my uh life. back again with my mom. How was it. starting your life back again with your. mom? Well, there was uh again I have. found found the memories of my. childhood. So today when I when I look.

at it back yeah it was poor it was. violent but when I also I have the. nostalgia for it. So when I came back. home, I didn't go back to do boxing. My. home at the time was in Galonagura, small town. So I didn't go back to the. boxing because the first karate kukushin. kukushim kai was born in in in. in Nagura in the town. So I said I need. to get to it. But because you have to be. 18 to join, I took my uh school ID and I.

scraped the date and I changed my date. one year earlier. So I was actually 18. So I didn't tell my mom about it because. my mom was very strict about these these. things and I said I told my mom that I. want to go there but we couldn't afford. it. So she but she said this if you stop. drinking and stop smoking as I was. drinking and smoker if you stop drinking. and smoking and you I see your try to. pay for your uh uh training I will help.

you. So then I was selling the uh what. do you call it like papers? You get the. papers you like recycling. I was doing. the recycling and I was just getting. money for it. You could do it in Poland. It took a lot of stuff to carry heavy. stuff to make meaningful money. But I. learned I can steal the newspapers, the. stag of newspapers because in the. morning it was like 6 5:00 in the. morning there were there was no. electronics at the time. There was no.

internet. So they just throw those. newspapers by the places where they are. being sold. So I just wait until the guy. left and just grab a couple of these. bags. Is one maybe like five, six. kilograms. That's a lot of heavy weight. And just run away with it. I hid in my. basement. And uh and after uh 2 three. days, I just run up to the um place. where they were buying their recycling. and just start making money just to. supplement my uh. uh uh my.

uh karate training and it worked. My mom. seen it and she seen that I tried. I. stopped drinking. I stopped smoking and. just like this just one day I stopped. and uh started doing katukai it was it. was fun I mean that was uh something. that uh I very found memories of it and. that's how my life uh moved and. then you found yourself in prison I.

found myself in prison after uh that was. 1978 and uh that was when John Paul The. second pope came to. Poland and uh at that time when you were. watching on official TV his uh. interaction with people, you would think. yeah just the way that was explained by. communist was one the crazy guy in a. funny dress showed up and few people. show up to talk to him and when the TV.

shows yeah a few people here a few. people there but even more protesters. like yeah the pope is. And that was the communist. propaganda. If you look today and some. of the pictures on internet, there were. masses. There were if not millions, there were hundreds of thousands people. coming to meet the pope, but you. wouldn't know it from official press, from fake news media in Poland at the. time. They were the impression was.

there's nobody interested in just funny. dude in this in the white skirt. That. that's the way how it was explained. And uh but that was very meaningful for. Polish nation because no matter by this. time no matter what the famous media say. people do not believe that if they say. this is white people usually comment. that it's got to be black because the. the communist say is white. But people. had a chance to gather together in those. meet meetings where thousands of us show.

up for to meet the pope and they had a. chance to see that there's not only few. of them there's most of them there's. entire society you know there that that. opposing that depravity and that. socialist terror and they start talking. they start they start dreaming again and. the words that I still remember the pop. said was you know don't be afraid. Stand up. Get up your knees. Fight for. your rights. Don't be afraid. This is.

why what the vice president Jay Dance. when he say the same thing to European. Marxist goons in that room. uh during that visit. He was not. speaking to those turds and baboons. sitting there. He was speaking to people. in European Union. Stand up. Fight for. your rights. Don't be don't let these. goons and baboons bully you. So that's. uh that that's that's those words what.

the JD vice president JD Vance said. resonated with me and still resonate. What was it that got you in prison? So. uh after John Paul II visit in. 1978, people start actually organizing. They say, "You know what? He's right. we. don't need to live on our knees. It's. time to get up. It's time to fight for. our rights. We don't need to be afraid. And they and they start organizing. groups in in work work in in the.

different places. And eventually they. they decide well you know why don't we. just legalize our organization as a. trade union because mostly there were. workplaces, factories. Uh so let's. organize and let's legalize. Let's just. say [ __ ] the communism. let's make the. organization independent from communist. party and they did so there they start. building slowly and of of course that it. was a price to pay too the the the. persecution the prison times sometimes.

people were beaten to death or suicided. so that's uh but that was the price. worth to pay and what do you mean. suicided well for example I'll give you. a student I think it was. 1978 his name was Pas so he was he was. active in opposition. working trying to he was a student so he. was found dead and official. uh because of that he followed the. stairs. So there there was many cases. like this. So they were they were not.

afraid to go and. uh kill people just like my my father. would do it if he had opportunity or he. was required to do it. I have no doubt. that he would if he wouldn't do it. himself, he would find somebody to do. it. So that that was normal. So but. people start organizing and in 1980. finally the the people had so much so. enough of the socialist state they start. doing strikes they went on strikes here.

there in Gdines Gina and eventually the. entire economy start collapsing. So. communist government at the time in. socialist Poland say okay let's go get. some agreement let's just do something. let's try to work it out so you guys can. go to work we try to change the. socialist on being more humane we we now. know how to fix the socialism we make. socialism better now like every six. years so people say well no not really. now we need to be recognized as a trade.

unions solidarity they call themselves. solidarity. So that trade union was born. Eventually. the government had to give in and. approve. It was the first organization. in entire wars so packed that was. totally independent from communist. party. That was the first one. It was. the first break that was kicked out from. the communist terror wall and Poland did. it and eventually the uh entire wall. crumbled. So yeah. So this is how the uh.

how it started. But they never gave up. They they start making lists of people. inconvenient to socialist state and on. eventually in December 13, 1980 they. impose martial law. So at at midnight. the star mass arrests people from the. Middle East. There were secret police. army involved the regular police. They. were raiding apartments across entire.

Poland, arresting people and detaining. them. Uh there was at midnight. I. remember I was in the Solidarity. headquarters at the time, the trade. union movement which turned into the. social movement. Uh that uh I was on the. phone with friend with Austria and. midnight just click everything is. gone. I didn't think much of it because. communist socialist equipment didn't. work well anyway. So was like well. another I call him he may be later and.

then uh people start coming into our uh. organ building headquarters say hey uh. my uh son was arrested or my father and. my mother were arrested. Uh sometimes. they were arresting people leaving kids. in the apartments while with no. supervision. So that that was. very really bad because all the. telephones, radio, everything was cut at. midnight. Sort of people died. People. have a heart attack or emergency. They.

had no means to get help. And uh people. were shoved into the back in their. apartments. There was uh you could not. be on the street past certain uh time. Uh if you were, you could be arrested. and you were most likely arrested. And. uh this is where I got even more. involved. This is where I started. getting involved in underground. structures and building the resistance. to communist uh. uh uh takeover uh through martial law of.

entire Poland. And yeah, there was a lot. of people arrested some a lot of people. were shot and killed. uh but uh they. they they were able to uh subdue the. society yet for some time and this is. where I got involved and I started. building the structures eventually we. got caught we start printing a duelin. a bulletin a bulletin yes it was be. behind be behind the censorship of.

official uh fake news media so they was. basically challenged them they were. saying one things but what we doing. basically collecting the names of people. who were arrested, detained, sent to. internment camps and u and what happened. to them the the court. cases. So they. um the this is what we're printing. It. was very dangerous for communist state. Anything beyond what they can't censor. as perceived by socialist as very.

dangerous uh to their uh detrimental to. their power. So, of course, they track. us down and I got arrested. Uh, and you. I call it bulletin, they call it. newspaper, but it was just a. leaflet. It was a leaflet with two uh I. think two pages maybe, but it was. dangerous enough to uh uh to give me. three years prison sentence. How did. they arrest you? They arrested me when I. came on the point because you know, we.

didn't know much about the how. underground works and how to protect. ourselves. So we printed out and just. went on the street and giving we're. giving to the people. Uh so they uh they. they track us down say okay these guys. are passing the those illegal. newspapers. So I guess they follow us. and I walked to the point because we're. supposed to print the next uh batch of. the newspaper. Then uh and as I soon as. I knock on the door I was just like.

people are I hear people running from. upstairs from downstairs. the doors open. with the gun in my face. I was like, "Whoa." Okay. So, okay. They they throw. me on the ground and after a few kicks, they handcuff me and they drag me by my. feet to the apartment. They shut the. door and they were waiting. They were. hoping that somebody else will show up. And uh so one of those secret service uh. goons, he was sitting in the chair like. I sit right here, but he put me in front. of it and put his feet on my on me and.

just I I was working as a foot foot. stool uh for his feet for quite a few. hours and then nobody showed up uh. because it was only us. So they took me. back to uh they took me to political not. political they took me to secret police. headquarters in my city. That was my. first really stand with uh the communism. uh uh prison and it was you were there.

for 3 years. No, I was there for less. than that because there was amnesty. So. after around a year and a half uh they. they kind of uh start releasing us uh. right before the second visit of pope to. Poland. He demanded that uh before he. visits Poland they need to instill uh. amnesty for political prisoners. So they. slowly start releasing them. What was it. what what was it like in prison? Well. there was like I didn't have problems. I. just if I had to beat somebody up I did.

I didn't have a scrupulose about it but. I remember the first one even when I was. arrested they put me into this holding. tank with other prisoners and this is. normal technique of uh uh uh secret. police. They will keep you not freezing. but they keep you cold. They will keep. not keep you starving but they will keep. you hungry. So they slowly they will. break down your uh resistance that way. uh is you are easier uh to fall down and.

they uh so I remember they throw me like. two o'clock in the morning was dark no. windows so I just like didn't know even. where to go somebody say just go along. the wall find an empty spot sit down. sleep you we're going to figure it out. tomorrow I say okay so we wake up. tomorrow in the morning and this big. dude comes up and say hey uh I didn't. eat quite enough so I'm going to eat. your breakfast today. You are wellfed. I. guess you just came back from outside.

I'm going to eat your breakfast today. So like I didn't have much experience. with prison time. So I figured out I. just knock him out and uh and just. assert myself that nobody's going to eat. my breakfast. So I knock him out. But I. So he was laying there and I was like. thinking like said, well, I'm going to. knock his front teeth out and I'm going. to make a necklace out of it. So. actually I woke up to him. like very. carefully lift his upper lip and just. drove his two front teeth in just pulled.

them out and and uh well I got caught. with them I think in in the next prison. time because they when they transfer me. to a real prison this were those uh they. start like searching us much better and. they found my teeth so I'm sorry I don't. have my. necklace but that was the that was the. but you know like it never bothered. nobody never bothered me uh with taking. my breakfast. It would be very unlikely. in prison that somebody like real.

prisoner would just go and try to take. your breakfast. There was some punk who. think he's somebody. But he was. threatening me. When you go to real. prison, I'm going to pass to these guys. and and they're going to [ __ ] you up. I. was like, "All right, I'm You say it. again. I'm going to knock your bottom. teeth out. You want that?" Uh he let me. along. Um so then I was transferred to. eventually when they uh when they. finished with me they transferred me to. intermediate prison where I was waiting. for my sentence sentencing and then.

after that they took me to political. prisoner prison political prison on. Russian border in city Kubishu that's. where the pictures in my book and on my. websites are from because when I visit. that prison uh in 2022 I had the chance. actually to go inside and tour the place. where I spend my time as a prisoner. Wow. Yeah. What was it like in that. prison? Was there was there like a. re-education program or anything? That.

was but it was not official reeducation. program. So from intermediate prison I. was transferred to that after sentencing. to that political prisoner. But then. they kept there was known I one of the. harshest prisons in Poland. This is. where they keep political prisoners. They were kept them all over the Poland. but it was like most known harsh prison. and then they uh so this is where I met. people. professors.

engineers people with a statue with that. accomplish something in their life and. uh and even politicians. Uh so that was. very educational for me. It stopped. being I didn't think about it as a. punishment. It was more like education. for me. I learned about the real history. of Poland. That was that and I I was I. learned how twisted the official history. of Poland was. So that was how that that.

helped me and this the way this is what. shaped me in the big part uh. uh to who I am today. So yeah, there was. uh I met a lot of brave people. Uh you. know like when I was sitting in prison, I didn't have a family. I didn't have a. wife or kids. And now we have kids. So. we know how it how it is. I understood. how was difficult for all those. engineers, all those professors who.

never had a contact with prison and law. enforcement suddenly being the on the. receiving end sitting in prison and. worrying about their wives, their kids. and still not giving up, still fighting. the system even from prison. For me, that was inspiration. So yeah, uh I was. so inspired that eventually the present. administration sent a letter to my. mother that uh uh basically come and. help out because he's uh I'm not. following the rules and my my behavior.

is highly negative and uh not up to. standard to. socialist regulations and stuff. So I. still have it. and I need to find it. because uh we just found it maybe like a. year ago and I say okay I'm going to. keep it and uh and put I put it. somewhere in the safe place but I don't. know where the safe place is now. So but. I have that letter from uh prison. administration to my mom uh calling her. and asking to influence me come here and.

talk to me. So it was funny because they. got extra visit from my mom. I didn't. expect that we get a visit once a month. and suddenly my mom show us hey you need. to go and visit mom. So my mom sees them. crying and say, "Wow, I'm very proud of. you." I said, "Well, I'm sure you are, but what's up?" She say, "Wow, this" and. she just pulled this letter up. So I'm. very proud, twice as proud now. So keep. doing what you're doing. Don't don't. give in. So yeah. And then uh we were. actually start fighting back. I remember.

uh we went on the hunger strike. So. we're like for I don't remember was 3. weeks or month where we didn't refuse to. eat. We were trying to it started from. beatings that so one of the uh political. some of the political prisoners got beat. up by guards. So we're on hunger strike. but then we say okay well we are ready. for like 8 n days. So why don't we just. attach the request for for status of.

political prisoner. we are political. prisoners. So let's fight for that. So. now so we wrote the letter to the. administration that the strike will. continue until we receive that until we. receive the status of political prisoner. and um they start breaking our. strike starting with the older more sick. prisoners. some professors were taken to. the room and say like the way uh they by. the Polish regulation at the time they. have to feed you forcefully uh feed you.

uh after I think 2 weeks. So they start. that and the way they do it is that the. big pipe looks like the vacuum pipe but. a little bit smaller corrugated pip pipe. and the funnel on the end. So they. handcuffed you to the chair. They took. this pipe and they shove you shove this. thing up your up to your stomach and. then they have a big what we call it. like big thing where they cook stuff. like a yellow glue goo glue and they.

just put it into your stomach. So what. they did is like with older people they. say look there's nobody here it's just. you and us. So instead of us shoving. this thick big pipe in your stomach, why. don't you just take take this little cup. so I won't have to put it in? Just drink. it. People. who were some of the older people say, "Well, this is very painful." So I just.

drink it here. I'm still on strike. So. usually they don't even let them finish. that drink because as soon as he grabbed. that cap, put in his mouth and make a. two three sips of it say okay now you. are not on hunger strike you feed. yourself your hunger strike is over and. in transport to different prison or. different uh pavon whatever they just. start separating these people. Uh so a. lot of people went this way. They they. were like tricked this way. But uh.

eventually the letter from the from. church from Catholic church in Poland. came in guys you you you will not you. will not get status of political. prisoner. You can accomplish other. things but that's not you need to stop. that because you are wasting yourself. because there are people taken to. hospitals to emergency rooms because of. that. And uh that's how we uh uh. eventually the strike is over. We we. will stop uh the hunger strike. What. were you guys How would the counter How.

would the hunger strike have worked if. they were censor if they were censoring. all the media? How would anybody know. you guys were on? Well, we have a the. priest that was coming to they were. allowed once a week on Sundays the. priest to come in and the friend who was. passing him the information was his. friend of mine who I'm still we are. still friends and uh that's how the. information was getting out to. So they. would leak it to a priest and then the. priest would disseminate it through. church to the church and to the pass it. to the pass to underground because.

Poland at the time already had pretty. strong underground structures. They were. eventually infiltrated by the uh secret. police but they were working and they. were still effective. So there was being. spread out through alternate media. So. basically the fake news media of course. we know what to expect but they were. still there bulletins like mine. They. were being printed and disseminated to. people or being just left thrown in the. street here so people could pick it up. and read it and that's things spread.

like wild wildfire but also you know. there's another what would the. consequences be if if they caught you. with hey you no no no no what would the. consequences be for the government if. people knew that I mean they're already. arresting they shut down communications. at midnight that day right and did mass. arrests Right. And so what I guess what. I'm asking is what would the what would. the consequences have been for the. government had the when the church would.

leak out that there was a hunger strike. that would just a bunch of test not so. much within the country but outside the. western media. Yes. The radio free. Europe radio voice of America. Your. voice of America is. a in my life plays a very instrumental. role. uh because uh the the the things I. started learning about the communist. regime about the real history of Poland. was start started with the voice of.

America where it was transmitted to. Poland uh with real true information. what was happening in Poland what was. the real Polish history was very. interesting but it was illegal to listen. to it so they they did not want this. information governor to leak outside. beside the sanction uh against communist. his government by President Reagan was. playing big role and eventually collapse. of the communism uh and socialism in. Poland. But yeah, there was there were a.

repercussion they were afraid and they. were they had enough people were. fighting them on every steps they could. maybe not physically but intellectually. they call it in Poland was coined the. name internal immigration. So basically. people were uh shutting themselves down. away from the government not cooperating. with them and the entire economy was. going to [ __ ] and uh so they did not. want that they eventually they realized. that they cannot this minority you.

wouldn't know listening to the fake news. media but that minority cannot rule over. the majority that people are real were. realiz I think there's more and more of. them versus the small. group of elites, socialist elites in. Poland. So yeah, they were afraid. They. didn't want that and then eventually. that thing collapsed. Wow. So you were. part of the collapse. I was part of the. coll well by this time I was already in. Poland. But it it totally collapsed in.

19 uh I believe 1987. This where that. was the transition from communist total. from the totalitarian system happened to. towards democracy. By this time I was. already living my American dream in. America. And how did you get out of. prison? So was the pope amnesty was the. the pope was coming in and they start. releasing political prisoners. So after. coming out that's actually funny story. because uh I was arrested in winter. time. So all the clothes I had was just.

winter and a big old coat, you know, big. boots that the the strings were already. broken. hat, the bowl, then I mean the. cap and uh I remember they let me out. and they say, "Okay, this is your. clothes now. This is a ticket for to. your city and bye, you know, get out.". So when I left, I was I look like a. bomb, you know. So I remember I was. walking like showing my shoes because. they were falling there and have a. strings in it. So until I get to the.

town, I had to walk from prison maybe. like three miles to town to get the. train and they change the train. So. yeah, I do look like a bomb. And people. like, "Look at this guy." No, there's a. bomb. Uh, in Poland, it was normal for. people. Even if they went to take trash. out, they wanted to look good. They. wanted to dress them. They just dress. themselves so they look decent. There. was not like sweatpants or something. You just go I do it now, right? But at. that time, you always put something some. nice clothes whenever you were outside. Like for me, I remember I have a special.

clothes for the Sundays to go to church. or like a church clothes that I was not. allowed to wear at home or anywhere else. except going to church because it was. special occasion. So people are there. So was seeing me as a bomb walking this. shoes, anti shoes, you know, big jacket. in the in in the summertime is was I. think outside for a lot of Polish people. there. So yeah. Where did you go? Do you. want do you want back? I walked to the. train station, then I took the train to.

my city and there was no cell phones at. the time. So like my mom didn't even. know anything and um yeah, I just uh. took the I didn't have a money to pay. for the bus ticket. So from the train. station, I just. uh took part of it, started walking, but. it was so unpleasant that eventually I. illegally jump on the bus and say like. two, three stops. I just went and then I. walked back home and uh that was it. So. my mom was very happy. She couldn't.

believe you know my siblings too and uh. but yeah that was it. Um and I now I. thought okay so now I'm done with. prison. What's next? So try to find a. job to do something try to set my life. again. And uh so of course I resume my. training the tawondo and kickboxing. I. switch Kyokushinkai to take one though. because I like it better. Those are I. like the people there. They have a. similar mentality to mine. They didn't. mind to fight. They like to fight. They. like to fight on the streets. So there.

was just like a more like. a good group of people you know there. less sport more fights and uh so when I. went try try to resume my life but then. coming out from the trainings very often. I I had the police car or sometimes. civilian cars pulled in get handcuffed. thrown the car drove around the town for. a few hours sometimes drove outside the. town and drop usually they drop me off. outside of town and then I had to walk.

back home. But it was not so much to. terrorize me. They knew they cannot. terrorize me, but they was to terrorize. people around me. I say, "Yeah, you know. what? Don't do that. Don't be don't hang. out with this guy." And uh eventually uh. at daytime was okay. I can take a bus or. something and go back home. But at night. where the buses are working, sometimes I. had to work four or five miles uh to. home. So eventually I decided one day I. may not come back from those excursions. it's time time to go time to leave and.

um I went to US embassy asked for help. I went to US embassy because at that. time America. was as it always is but it's that beacon. of freedom. This is where people look up. to. I remember dreaming like why Poland. cannot be like America, you know. And. what happened to when I was going to. this very exclusive school in Warso that. my father uh set up set it up for me. My.

I had to travel change the buses and the. change the bus was change the stop was. by the US embassy. So I remember I love. just to go up there because at that time. they have those glass this place where. they have a pictures from America. They. were information America. So I remember. even before the martial even before I. got political I just love to look at it. and see wow you know I love to dream. So. sometimes it was so nice that I remember. missing the bus you know I said [ __ ].

this bus you know I just I want to read. this. So I was I did read that and uh. and I was always fascinated. I like to. picked up the fence and they see the big. powerful beautiful cars. I was like my. this this is a this is the country. Those are the free people. Why why. aren't we that today those uh glass. displays are taken down for security. reason I guess and uh I I still when I. went last time I've seen it I went up.

there uh because for me is very. nostalgic but uh yeah that was gone. Wow. And so you got you put in and yeah. I asked for I told them what happened. and I say I would like to just uh I. would like to escape Poland. I would. like I need help. They uh you know I. didn't even the wildest dream I would. think they will allow me to come live in. America. It was just like well but I. have to try. So so I went to ask you. know I find out like I asked for the.

they asked for documents and all that. stuff. did and so I got like within I. think very short time uh uh like a uh. documents stating that yes the visa will. be granted to me when I get Polish. passport. So I basically that was normal. procedure at the time and a lot of. political refugees came to this way to. either to America or different. countries. My choice was always America. and and uh so once I got that promise I.

could apply with that I could apply for. passport otherwise you cannot get the. passport in Poland. So with this I. applied for passport. It was the. passport was given to me and uh I got a. visa got a green card and uh actually. I94 that was the f I think first. document which was a later exchange for. green card eventually I became US. citizen but yeah so I this this is my uh. uh that's my where my journey became. became there's one thing I would like to. mention too during martial law you know.

um when everything was banned like the. solidarity insignia Yeah, solidarity like lapel pants. They were. just forbidden. You could not wear it. So people start wearing American flag as. a as as a resistance as a show. Yeah, we. are free. You know, we want to be free. So I remember that. So that we had we. all had the American flags. Communist. got tired of it. I remember my city. because the martial art they had the. roadblocks. So they once every while.

they stop bus or something. Everybody. has to disembark. they were checking. documents and uh so if they found the. Solidarity trade union pen you could get. beat up on and hold up your ass to jail. but with American flag they just could. not really uh do that much you know they. at least didn't they did not to the. point because I remember with uh the the. time that I got stopped in on the. checkpoint when they pull us out they.

rip our uh flags American flags off and. they stomp um uh in the ground. So the. funny thing, it's not funny, but so. we're back on the bus and then um the. guy as the bus was moving, the guy say, "Yeah, [ __ ] you. We're going to get. more. We're going to buy more American. flags and and when they stop the bus, they pull everybody out and they grab. the I think I don't think it was the guy. who who mouth off to them. There was. they just picked the first guy they.

could easier grab. They grabbed him. They drag him and and they drag him to. the police van while beating him with. the with those rubber g rubber sticks. all the way on the way to it. So now you. can leave. So like okay well maybe we. don't say anything we just buy new. American flags. So yeah that that uh. that's that American flag was always for. us for many of us that kind of freedom. that that drive and then I came to live. here. Did your did any of your siblings.

or your mother come with you? No, no, they stay. They that time they stay they. stay there. And my sister is still. there. She's still um uh uh she's living. her own life. She has her own business. now. And uh they have peaceful nice. life. So they enjoy it and and I'm I'm. here. I when I was leaving Poland, I was. saying goodbye to Poland forever. I. didn't I had my passport. I I'm going to. post on my website. Uh my passport is. only one way. So it's a stamina. you can. cross can cross Polish border one time.

only. So I say well that's it. Wow. And. uh yeah. Was it hard to say goodbye? Well it was I was anxious not not really. that much but it was more difficult for. my family my mom because they the way we. understood we're never going to see uh. each other. So for me it was like well. you know I have to go because if I don't. then I I may not last long and uh yeah I.

remember I just like know had a bag of. my clothes and u I had the $20 because. you had to have a $20 and I woke up to. the plane and uh left. That was it. Wow. So yeah that that's how my uh. journey started. The funny thing is that. I always was dreaming about having a. tape recorder, like a little tiny tape. recorder. Never had one. So I said, "Well, you know what? I have $20 in. Germany because I flew to Germany, stay. in Germany for like 3 weeks." And uh so.

I go and buy me one. So the all $20 I. spent on tape recorder. So when I land. in New York, I had only 10 the the. change that I got for the tape recorder. was 10 10 Fenix. So this like I think 5. cents. It was German uh uh coin. So. that's. uh that's how I landed in New York bag. of clothes. And I didn't speak English. Well, let's take a quick break and when.

we come back, we'll get into the US. Yeah, that's that's the No, you can cut. out from it. Whatever you want to cut. out, but uh we're not cutting anything. Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's uh wow. Well, you know what? Like my story, whether in the book or told here, I. don't want people see as a well, the guy. just came and [ __ ] about the socialism. and communism. We all know the communist. bad. I want them to to this to be a.

prism, a. lens so they can see America maybe from. different vantage point because I see. very often people especially the young. younger generation educated with this. anti-American universities they hate. outright hate America you know and uh so. I want them to see the. America through I would say different. eyes you different different vantage. point. So maybe they can change their.

mind because you know that's uh I tell. you I've some of the hate towards. America I've seen from our own citizens. I didn't seen that the terrorists we. were hunting in the Middle. East. So that's that's what is. disturbing for me. Not all but I did run. across people with so much hate towards. America, our own citizens. And this is a. product of these universities, these. anti-American universities, this Marxist. with Marxist communist bent and.

communist professors and teachers. So. jeez. Yeah. Well, you did a damn good. job painting that picture. What's that? You did a damn good job painting that. picture. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Traditional in-person therapy can cost. anywhere from a hundred to. $250 per session. But with BetterHelp. online therapy, you can save on average. up to 50% per session. Seriously, it's.

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mefabric.com/shan. Policies issued by. Western Southern Life Insurance Company. not available in certain states. Prices. subject to underwriting and health. questions. All right, Drago, we're back. from the break and uh so a couple of. interesting conversations we got to. revisit that happened off camera. One, you said you're a bad student. Now. you're a software engineer. Engineer. Yes. uh well you know this I was a bad.

student because I think that's uh I. didn't like to learn and that was my I. think. maybe my personal challenge to stay. focused on something and uh especially. something that I didn't like to do it. I. like to play soccer. I like to kickbox. I like to fight. So I didn't have uh I. was not the best student. But yeah this. like software engineering is. fascinating. It's like having a puzzle. and you solve the puzzle and and it.

trains your brain to to memorize things. to remember things and using the tools. It is fascinating. It's a and you build. things you know just like you are. designer and software engineering is. more like an art than it's a science but. it's also big art involved in it because. you can solve the problem. This is about. solving the problems and you can solve. the problems in so many ways. So many. different things you can do to. accomplish your task is is fantastic. I. love it. I mean this is something that.

is was very fascinating to me. Matter of. fact, the way I started it was in the. SEAL teams. So I was the only SEAL who. having a cruise box cruise box with guns. have another cruise box with books and. another one with full computer. There. were no laptops at the time. Well maybe. there were but I couldn't afford one. So. I had a big monitor, big computer, keyboard, mouse and I travel with it. If. we deploy to like when we deploy to. Germany uh or and or to Bosnia, I had. that all sheang with me. Matter of fact,

when we came back from deployment, we're. carrying guns back into the SEAL teams. So we picked the case with the guns with. the guys just carry it in then pick my. case to my cage and say, "What the [ __ ]. is in this box? How do we get a guns in. it or something?" I say, "No, it's just. my laptop and my boots." because there. was no internet at the time. So I had to. have a book so I carry books with me. Damn. But I love it. This is it's. fascinating world. And then we had uh we. had a conversation too. We have to get. this about taekwond do and I was talking.

about pome's cameras and then somehow. that morphed or helmet and then somehow. that morphed into Oh yeah. morphed into. cameras and then basically you guys. critiquing yourself on the street, right? Yes. When I was growing up, there was no. cameras. You can have a camera, maybe. like the one with this little uh crank. on it, and it was hard to get like I. never had one, and I didn't didn't know. even anybody who had one. So, for us to.

progress in that in fighting, in the. kickboxing, in Tekwondo, we just need to. critique each other. So, um a matter of. fact, this is why I switch from Karate. Kyoko Shinkai to Tewo. at the time is. not like this today. I need I know I. don't want to offend anybody who is. practicing tawondo today in Poland to to. tondo is very inclusive to all kinds of. people and is very very uh I would say.

civilized is very is very not only. educational but also very healthy. But. at that time you know we just decide. to especially when our teacher from. Laos claim and was telling us that you. know fight on the ring is one thing it's. fairly safe but you need to be good you. want to be good fighter you need to. fight on the street well he didn't have. to say twice to us that right we just. like okay right on let's let's do it so.

the way we did it it was just pick the. people on the street who look more rough. or like trying to somebody who was. willing to fight and it was not. difficult to find people like this in. Poland at the time. So we go and. um the way we did it is like okay so I. I'm going to first I'm going to beat up. this guy and you guys will watch this is. what I'm going to do. I'm going to use. this technique, this technique, this. technique, and you grade me basically. They were they were the cameras of our.

the eyes of my uh fellow buddies uh from. Techwendo. They were the cameras of our. times. So, you know, you got there, you. use your technique, you beat the guy up. and uh again, I'm not proud of it today, but I have to say say clearly, but that. was the way I lived the life at the. time. So, and you critique me and and so. after the fight was over, the guy was. laying unconscious. The guys come in and. say, "Okay, well, you you miss your. technique right there. You could. emphasize a little bit more that kick.

was not very strong or you miss the guy. here where you could actually do more. damage or do this this." So, that was. our techniques. and that's that's how we uh we got. really good at it. We got really good at. it to the point that uh we didn't look. for single people anymore. or we just. wanted like how let's challenge. ourselves. Let's just beat two people at. the time. So it was sometimes was. difficult to find like a group of people. to beat up. So if we found one usually.

it was like whoever call first was able. to beat them up. Sometimes it was so. hard to tell because we were like a. mine. Uh we had to draw the straws who. would be beating them up and this is how. we practice. So we just woke up to the. guy who start the fight and in Poland. again it was not very difficult to do it. because almost everybody was fighting. everywhere and uh then we practice our. technique or two three guys and it was. become more actually in interesting than. beating just one guy. It was very simple. thing but now we have two or three guys.

and now now you can show your art I. would say you can show your way of how. you master your techniques your reaction. time and all that stuff. So that was. very interesting. Uh, and some of them, you know, like we didn't know, we didn't. pick people who, cuz you couldn't know. if that the the guy the guys to be dab. were martial artists too or not. But we. did um we we we just, you know, like. taking a chances and uh sometimes the.

guy had actually martial art training. was or boxer or wrestler. So they were. hard to beat up sometimes, you know. Sometimes like uh you have two three. guys and one of them is like you know is. not really reacting to your punches. You. have to actually strain yourself to. knock the guy out. But that was our. training. That was our the cameras were. our eyes and the the review was by our. critique how the fight went. Wow. And um. that was uh you know what again who who. whose idea was the safety pin? Oh, I.

don't know where it came from, but Oh, yeah. That was came from uh you know. when you fight when you were fighting in. Poland. When I was fighting in Poland, I. you know I I learned very quickly that. and I'm sure you experienced that when. you start a fight, the guy gets beat up. a little bit and say, "Okay, I had. enough. Thank you. You better let me. walk away. I'm fine." That's very. dangerous thing to do. What I learned. very quickly because usually the guy. recover and attack you again or come.

back with his friends. So then you have. a fight on your hands or even more. people to beat up. So with with uh when. when when we f fight when you used to. fight there we used to fight until the. guy stopped moving. So it's not that I. had enough enough. No, no, no. You you. don't tell. me that to end when I end the fight. I. will tell you when I end the fight. Most. likely I you will just be moving again. So you just beat the guy until he.

doesn't move right now or he falls down, doesn't move. But then we find out and. it happened to me actually that the one. of the guys I think at the thong fell in. and he was already getting turning blue. and I panic. I didn't know what to do. I. didn't know what happened and thanks God. there was a nurse and say give me a. safety pen give me a safety somebody. safety pen so somebody p her safety pen. and she kind of like hook his tongue and. pull it out rolling to the side was good. and say if something like this happen.

you know you need to make sure that his. tongue doesn't that person tongues. doesn't fall in so I u I say well that's. pretty cool but you know like if if you. need to run and what do you do well I. guess you take the safety pen and pen. his tongue to his lower lip and I will. he will leave too. So this is how we. start doing it. And uh. sometimes police in Poland at that time. seldom intervene. People were so used to. violence there that if there was a fight.

on the street and you could see two. three fights when you walk through town. usually people just cross the street go. around you and keep walking down like. it's not my business you know two people. three people are fighting let them fight. it out let them duke it out and just. move on. Uh but sometimes when police. was coming then you have to leave. unconscious guy on the street. So we. learn very quickly that the best way is. just to use the safety pen pull his. tongue out pin it to the lower lip. rocking to the side and just leave him. there and he he will leave. He's not.

going to die. So uh so that was kind of. like a technique that we learned very. quickly and it's effective. It's. life-saving technique. I think last one. I applied in Horton Plaza in San Diego. already being a seal. I have to say I've. never uh it never occurred to beat a. pinup guy's tongue to his lip after I. beat him up so he doesn't choke to. death. I I didn't think either until. this guy almost died in my on my eyes. Well, so that's I learned there's a. safer way this I treat the safety pen as.

a safety device. You know, you just. ensure the guy doesn't die that he's. fairly safe that. um he strung pain to them to his lower. lip. It's not going to hurt him. You. know, he wake up. and I I never had a never had anybody. complain about Well, maybe they never. they never saw me after, but it was. effective 100%, I. guess. So, that worked. Yeah. So, let's.

get to So, you came to America, you had. $20. Uh, in Germany, I spent on the. tape, tiny tape recorder. You bought the. tape recorder. So, you had like I think. you said five cents. What do you five. Phoenix? So, Phoenix is like German mark. has 100 Fenix. So I had the five. fennings in my pocket bag of clothes. from like old clothes from 1970s or. whatever my mom could uh you know. prepare for me. So I had a sweater I. think I still have it till today. somewhere in the closet because I didn't.

want to throw it away uh with my mom. made by his hand by her hands. So that's. uh yeah that's how I came to America. Uh. knowing nothing, knowing no English, only knowing that America is a free. country. The people are living free here. and I can live as a free man uh here on. this land and hopefully one day become. American citizen if I'm good enough. Where do you go? No family, no money, no. English, nowhere to live.

People were waiting for me actually. So. when I came in cuz I came. legally, they organized like apartment. for me. They organized the first help me. find the first job, you know. I didn't. complain or or how could I complain? I. got a job as a janitor and I was happy. as I can be. Uh Sean, I could pay for my. own apartment, my own money. I didn't. have to uh uh borrow the money. I could.

buy my food, you know, and I was living. in the apartment with air conditioning, with uh uh, you know, telephone. There. was something unusual in Poland. And air. conditioning, I only I didn't even know. how it works. I never I never seen air. conditioning. I heard about this. climatization in apartments, but having. apartment with air conditioning, good. god, I felt like a king, you know. There. was a project. There was that like. apartment was like $180 a month and.

there was bunch of lot of crimes, drugs. and prostitution but who cares you know. I had my own apartment and I could. afford it. I could live in it and uh and. then you know so my goal become now to. learn English and to get different job. get better job and um to start English. because I was working as a janitor so. really you know physical work so I had a. cartoons in my back pocket so I had a. map in one hand it's like Jane loves Joe.

loves Jane you know I was just mapping. the floors and and that's like okay So I. need to memorize that. So this is how I. learn basically how I learn English at. the time. And uh this is. why my grammar sometimes is still like. the fans of Rachel, my wife. She's like, "Hey, you don't say it this way. You. have to say it certain way." Uh and and. uh but yeah, this this how I started.

This is how I learned English. But. eventually you know I I improve and uh. uh uh I went to school and uh but that. was my that were my first beginning and. I tell you the patience of American. friends who helped me who sent me my. life here uh I mean is so incredible. Sean I I offended so many people. unintentionally not even knowing about. it. I remember I was invited by the. church uh after the mass on Sunday in.

the room so I can the parishioners can. meet this new Polish immigrant and stuff. and I can mingle with those great. people, great American friends. So I. walk into that room and the uh pastor. came with a big plate of cookies and. just like so happy know everybody is. like smiling and happy. So I took this. cookie. and in Polish language there's not such. sound like th. So somebody advised me to.

use f like thank you. That came out like. a [ __ ] you. And that's so when I took. this cookie and I could I knew that I. say something wrong because right there. I could hear the. gasps like everybody. So I'm holding. this cookie and like what the hell did I. say wrong? I say thank you. My [ __ ] you. So, but this like older gentleman came. out and say look. uh what he's trying to say is he looks.

at me and say thank you. So like yes. that's what I'm trying to. say. So so you know like there were. things like this the bored moments I was. invited to party like swimming swimming. pool family party from the parishioners. and they have a grill set up and. everything. So, of course, I want to. represent myself the best I could and, you know, be that good American. Uh, I.

want to be I just want to look good. there. So, I went and I found the. skimpest, the shortest shorts I could. find. Uh, I you would call it banana. hammock, I guess, today. And I thought. this is really cool. I will look really. good. I think these people admire me. You know that's like that I really. represent myself well. So as soon as I. walk into that pool I can see a whistle. and people being ushered out of the. swimming pool in the behind the building. somewhere and somebody calls me say hey.

come on here we have a shorts for you. So they took me to the room they give me. big shorts. Oh I didn't I didn't argue. I just like yes sir yes sir. You know in. Poland at the time in 1980s this the. shorts like we wear today only fat. people and old people wear. So there was. no um if somebody's seen you in those. shorts, they would think that you are. just like weird guy. So everybody was. there, the skimpiest, the shortest, the.

smallest, the the the the swimming. tunes, the better. So I was I just. didn't know. And and and another thing. too like I remember first few days I was. staying with older family parishioners. in the church. So they sometimes they. give me a ride around the uh Memphis and. uh I was trying and they give me a. dictionary, a first dictionary. I have. it today with their corrections on it. I. have it in my home actually. I'm going. to post on on my website. So I was.

trying to tell them impress them that. I'm learning English. I'm using this. dictionary. So as we drive I'm looking. say this is house. It's like yeah good. you know, this is man, this is woman, you know, and just like reading and. trying to find out what it means. And. they were pretty happy until we came and. I see the black guy walking on the. street and find out what is the black. guy. Okay, this isn't the ugly word. It. was not the ugly, it was the ugly word.

You know, there something very offensive. to to to to I guess anybody to me too. But at the time, I didn't know and uh. they almost ragged the car. This woman. jumped out say where did you she's. yelling me I don't understand what she. takes this dictionary from me and slowly. this is bad no. wow and she scratched that word and. wrote black man I say I say black man.

this is black man and uh you know it. was at the last thing on my mind or in a. hard way to offend an American or. anybody, especially American, especially. friends. So, I just didn't know any. better. So, yeah, as you can see, my uh. progressing through my uh uh learning. how to live in American society, it took. its toll on me, too, because I was. trying to be so good and sometimes it.

just backfired at me. But there was. never intentional mistake. maybe maybe. one when uh eventually I got the job as. a sub mechanic that's a story just in. itself how I got the. job and then uh so that mechanic the. shop foreman invite me to say hey let's. have a stakes today there'll be couple. other uh uh mechanics come in so let's. go have a party say party so we show up. and we he gave me a.

steak that was the. First time in my life I seen that one. big piece of meat in one in one piece. So I'm looking at it. It's like I think. five or six of them. But I'm so like Jim. by this time I spoke a little bit. English. So it's like a entire town is. coming here to the party or what? Uh he. said no no it's just so are you telling. me I can eat the whole steak? In Poland, when you had a meat, you slice it like.

like a razor blade and you use the meat, at least in my home, not to to fill. yourself. Use the meat for the taste, but you fill yourself with the potatoes. or or or or bread. So, I'm like, how be. eating entire It was the first time I. ate entire big chewing like a brick of. meat in my life. So, I was so grateful. to him. So they knew I was doing. kickboxing earlier and they say, "Oh, show us something, you know, something. Show us something. You know, we have a.

few beers." I say, "Okay, uh, I show. you. I show you the basic punch. Would I. like to punch people with?" And uh, can. I punch this wall? He say, "Yeah, sure.". I thought this a concrete wall in. Poland. The walls are concrete, all. those concrete plates. So I'm loud on. this wall. Boom. But there was a. freaking uh, dry sheet wall. So my fist. went through one wall and went out in. his bedroom on the other side. That was. embarrassing. I was say, "Dude, I am so.

Jim, I am so so sorry. I didn't mean to. destroy your house. I just wanted to. show you now that the punch I didn't. think there I thought there was a. concrete wall." And he they thought that. was funny. So I said, "I'm I'm going to. go and fix it." But I say, "No, no, no. That was fine. I will keep it for a. while." So I have a story to tell. So yeah, so the the things like that. were were a bit different. How how old. were you when you came to the US? 24. 24. going 24. How long did it take you to learn.

English? I'm still learning English. enough to be able to communicate. Yeah, but I communicate I think it took me. maybe to be fairly efficient to convey. my thoughts. I think maybe 6 months, 7. months. But please remember I had to do. it on my own. Mhm. So the bad it's. easier to learn the right. way than learn the bad way and then. correct this. So I still make a lot of. mistakes when I speak and which is. obvious to people around. Maybe not for.

me so much. But my wife always says like. well you know you just you're just funny. so I'm not going to correct you because. sounds good sounds sounds funny. So keep. going. So yeah she's uh she she. domesticated me. So I'm like fully I. well I consider myself now fully. domesticated. She always when you ask. her she will tell you that I'm still. project under construction. So I'm I'm. still I still have edges to to to to. polish but I'm I'm working on it.

So where did you go? Where did you go. from New York? Uh from New York I went. to Memphis. So Memphis, Tennessee. This. is where I started my American dream. And again, this is something that uh I I. always say it. I would never succeed. Maybe not the way I succeeded if not. American people, if not American. culture, if not the help I got from. people who didn't know me from Adam. There were people coming to my. apartment. I had no furniture. So I was.

thinking, wow, this is my apartment is. great. Uh I can sleep on the floor. No, they brought me a bed. They brought me a. shelves. They everything that I had this. apartment I got from my American. friends. They were coming to me bringing. me clothes because the clothes that I. had from like from ' 70s and really. wasn't didn't fit in I wouldn't fit. between people. So they were bringing me. clothes. They were bringing me food if I. was because you know my I think I had. like $20 a week left after I pay my. bills to my food. So they were just.

checking my freezers coming in say hey. you know what I think you need this. Let. me bring you some hamburger meat. let me. bring you a cereal. Well, with cereal. itself, this is something that I I I. never seen it before in my life. And. then when I was taken first time to. shopping to grocery shopping, uh for me. it was like. a going from the normal world into sci. fiction um into science fiction movie.

right inside it. I've seen so many. things I never seen in my life and. happened. And I was on the aisle with. the cereal box. I didn't know what it. was, but it looks this boxes looks so. nice, so good that I loaded up my whole. cart with the boxes. My American friends. who help me with the shopping, they were. just laughing, dude. You see like, okay, if you want it, yeah, you got it. So, I. just load my whole shopping cart with. the cereal. I was eating the cereal for. a year later, but I learned to like it. So, my favorite was the crispies. There.

crispies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And then the one that one and the. chocolate one. So there was like milk. with it. I love that. How did you wind. up at Memphis? Um well when I came to uh. my uh uh journey started in Warso. through Germany. In Germany the. political refugees they had a center. there. They're just only for political. refugees. um where we spend time waiting.

for sponsor or somebody to help us. assimilate in American society. So we. had a people from state department. coming in through this three weeks. telling us America you know what to. expect in America how to leave what's. the best way to go about things what we. need to do when we arrive to America. So. there was a great help. I was like. sponge trying to soak all the. information and uh and then I remember I.

was calling the office and say do I have. any preferences where I would like to. settle down in America? I say my. preferences is to settle down in. America. I don't care when but if you. ask I was speaking Polish. If you ask, uh, I would like to go somewhere where. is hot, like hot hot. Uh, I'm tired of. being cold. In Poland, we didn't have a. good clothes. I was always freezing. So, I'm like, I'm so sick and tired of being. cold. Put me somewhere where it's hot.

So, it's like, well, what do you think. about Memphis, Tennessee? So, they took. me to the map, showed me the map. Do you. know anything about Memphis, Tennessee? Well, I know uh I knew that Elvis. Presley was from Memphis, Tennessee. So. I told him, "Ah, I know all this press. is from Tennessee." "Yeah, great. You. know it." Uh, but is it hot up there? I. said, "Yeah, it's very hot." I said, "Sign me up. I'm in." And they ship me. up to to New York, back to Memphis. This. is where I started my life. Um, got my. first job as an janitor, then as a.

partsman, then as a mechanic. You know, this funny things like I I didn't have a. I never had a car. I didn't even know in. Poland anybody any I didn't I did not. have a friend in Poland who owned the. car. So but those are European cars. Would you like to can you work on. European cars? Absolutely. Yes. So they. they they got me on the interview. There. was shilling. uh company the Porsche sub and Audi. So.

the Porsche guy come in and say like. well it's kind of expensive car. The guy. doesn't speak English know nothing about. cars. So maybe we just uh set it. Maybe. not today. So then the Audi mechanic. came in the same thing. No. And and then. we're waiting for the sub mechanic to. come in and I hear this big sound roar. of the. Harley-Davidson motorcycle just running. next to the in the garage up there. The. guy looking like a Sasquatch tax maybe. looks like 7t tall walks in. I say,

"Hey, so that. guy, yeah, Sab," I say, "Yeah." He. looked at the the Tim Presley was a a. service manager at the time. I still. remember his name. He looks at at Tim. and the manager said, "I need a slave. Sign him up." And uh here we are. So, we. we become the really good friends. Uh if. not the best friends. Uh he told me.

everything about cars. I need to know. I. was clueless. I didn't know I had no. idea. So he told me everything about SA. I became really good mechanic to the. point even Mercedes came later and asked. me if I want to work for them. So this. guy there's the guy who invited me for. the steak party when I broke his house. with my fist. But um uh so he I remember. trying to learn English. My English was. still very difficult. I said, "Jim, I. have idea. You're going to read me the.

manuals and I will record you. I can. listen to it." I thought he will kill. me. It's like, "What did you just say?". I'm going to read you like a mama story. to children, I read you the m and on the. top of the. sub manual. I say, "Yeah." He say, "Yeah, I was thinking for Okay, but if. you tell somebody, I [ __ ] kill you.". So, so I still have I still have a James. recording somewhere there because what. helped me I was explaining to him that.

if I read the words and I'm listening at. the same time it's easier for me to. understand what it is and also I'm. learning English at the same time. So. this is the guy half gangster and the. guy who just wouldn't mind to go and. just kill you if he had to and become. like my bigger brother, you know, helping me out. So there's many things. that happened later in my life that. would not happen if not this guy. You.

know, I owe this guy so much. We lost. contact after I I left for the Navy. But. uh if he is there, if he's listening up. there, you know, Jimbo, I remember. Wow. Yeah, that's. cool, man. It wouldn't surprise me if. he's listening. What's that? It would. not surprise me if he's listening. Yeah. Hopefully, maybe he I know he had a son, too. So, they just great people. I I owe. them so much. I owe Jimbo. My I think.

the way my career moved on in America is. because this guy. So yeah, where did you go from. uh mechanics? From from straight to the. Navy. How did the how did the Navy pop. on your radar? Well, you see, by this. time I already became US citizen and I. was living my American dream. I had. everything I wanted. I was skydiving. even. I was teaching skydiving. I was. teaching AFF. I was AFF jump master. So.

I was living my life out and and then. the war broke out. the first Persian. war. So I say I am American and uh I. have such a great life. So what can I do. for my American friends and for for. America? I think I can serve in the war. I remember this funny thing because um I. decide to join the military. I didn't. know navy from army. For me was military. was military. Army was everything.

So I was just one day in the post office. and I see this uh uh what do you the. draft cards where everybody needs to. fill up the high school kids. So I say. oh wow I mean they they are recruiting. people even from post offices. I fill it. up. I sign up for the army. The war is. on. They're going to get me soon. So I. fill it up. Mailed it off. Came back to. my apartment. I was living with some. other sky divers. And I start packing. myself. I like what are you doing? I you.

cannot just move out. You know, we have. a contract here that we had to pay the. rent and stuff. No, no, no. I say, I'm. not moving out yet, but I'm packing. myself because I'm going to war. I'm. going to war to fight for. America. And he was like, wait a minute. How we didn't know anything. How did you. sign it up? I say, I went to the post. office. I filled it up. I sent it off. and I'm just waiting for them to just. come and get me. Well, like no, it. doesn't work like that. you need to go. actually assign to recruiting office and.

uh the actually the letter came in that. well thank you but no thank you you are. not required to fill this card you are. already too old for that so I was like. 32 at the time so I say okay well the. war is going on and uh I want to pay my. freedom back so I want to help and. support my country my America so uh I I. I went to the army recruiting office and. I said, "Hey, this is who I am. This is.

what happened to me. This is why I'm. here and I want to join military. I want. to go to war." So, it's like, "Where. would you Okay. Well, sure. There's an. unique preference preferences. Where. would you like to serve? I said, "Well, whoever goes first to to in combat, sign. me up." I had no idea, but like sign me. up. forever go uh go go I want to go to. war fight on behalf of America and. American people. So they uh they're like. okay infantry. I said I don't I don't.

know what infantry is but if you say so. I'm sign me up. So they proceeded with. the paperwork and everything and that. was pretty close to everything being. completed. And then Navy Seals showed up. in Memphis, Leap Frogs. They were doing. some demo jumps. So they came to our. drop zone to do some jumps. I started. talking to them and I still remember a. guy who I know him as Tim O'Hara. He he. was a firefighter in San Diego. So he's. the guy I talked to and he was just I. was like fascinated. He was really good.

skydiver. So we did many jumps together. with also with his. guys and uh and he just talked me and. say like look you want to go on seals. because you want to skydive right in. army you want to be skydiving but you. like skydiving to combat parachute jams. and stuff why don't you go join Navy. Seals like I didn't know what the seals. were for me it was not important to be a. SEAL was important to serve America so. um I say okay. so but I had to go to army guys and tell.

them like all this work you did for me. I'm sorry but I'm going next door. So. they uh it was awkward because I made. friends with them but I said well okay. I'll do it. I want I want to join the. Navy. So I went I grabbed the paper went. up there and uh they finish it up and. they were fair with me because they say. okay you are 32 going 33 so you are not. eligible for SEAL program because you. are too old. The cut of age is 28. But.

if you sign this paper, you go to boot. camp, they make a seal out of you. You. know, you look strong guys, so they're. going to make a seal out of you. I said, okay. Well, this again, my goal was not. to join Navy Seals. My goal goal was to. go join America in the war and support. So I say, "Yeah, that's fine. If not, just I will serve wherever America needs. me." Because that was my idea. I didn't. know where to go. So, so I signed it.

up and uh they told me, "Okay, we'll be. fair with you. If you go as a undesated, the Navy will put you scraping decks or. we do something that you may not like, why don't you go pick the job in the. Navy. So after boot camp, you go to your. A school and then you go in SEAL. training. If you fell out, I couldn't go. in SE training at the time, but they. didn't tell me that." So you go to SEAL. training, you fall out, you will fall. back on your job. So you don't go. scraping decks. You'll be doing whatever. the Navy train you to do. So I say,

"Okay, so what's the best job?" I say, "Well, you like skydiving, right?" I. say, "Yes, parachute rigger." Say, "Okay, sign me up." Parachute rigger. And. um so but they say, "Okay, if you want. to go parachute rigger, you will have to. leave." Uh so we we're pro doing the. paperwork. Maybe like 3 weeks later they. call me or a month later say okay to be. a parachute rigger there's two options.

now you can go to boot camp like next. week and try right after the boot camp. your a school starts the parachuting. school or you have to wait like four or. five months and then wherever the next. parachuting school is to coordinate it. with you going to boot camp and to. school. So, I was thinking like, [ __ ]. the war may end by this time. So, sign. me up for the closest one. I call my. girlfriend that say, "Hey, look, I'm. leaving next next week. I'm I'm joining.

the Navy. I'm leaving next week." She's. like, "What?" I said, "Yeah, let's get. married." So, so we just got we we ran. that was a Monday, I think. Tuesday, we. ran like in the afternoon after her work. to the uh to the office in my office. We. found the judge who was already leaving. but I think we look so desperate. He say. okay let me go sign you up. So he. married us and then I went on I think on. Friday I went to DEP uh uh into DEP.

Then I was sworn in and I think Saturday. or Sunday I flew they flew me uh and few. other guys from Memphis to Great Lakes. uh to to to Illinois. That's how my. adventure started. So that's that's my. beginning of my Navy time. And again, um I just wanted to serve. It really. didn't matter where I serve. I say my. idea was to serve where America needs.

me. That's whatever they I can be. useful. And. uh but I passed the the the test, the. SEAL test. So they did let you try out. They they let me try. Yes. Yes. But uh. so but they say that I will have to ask. for the waiver for my age and this is. where I met uh so in boot camp but then. I had a kidney stone. So they say okay. now and I still have this document today. that does not disqualify me from SEAL.

training from the program but uh I have. to wait for at least a year or two. before I can reapply again because the. kidney start my recure. I have the. document at home and then. um so I say okay what is that it's not a. big deal it I just want to serve and uh. so I graduated from boot camp as a. number one recruit I'm very proud of it. because you know like my English was. still not perfect and uh but I always I.

excel in the like academics I excel in. the uh PT I excel in everything I did so. I was selected to be the number number. one graduating recruit from the entire. batch. So I got a military excellence. award from boot camp. I'm very proud of. it. And then uh I had a good instructors. too. So then uh I went to a school and. this is where I met Jason Cabel, my. friend of mine, really good friend of. mine. We later met in Iraq in Baghdad. doing combat together.

So like I couldn't swim very well uh. because I never seen the ocean. I never. seen the sea. He says, but he was so. sure he's going to make and he couldn't. swim. He swim even worse than I do. So. he was like very for me it was. inspirational because he look this guy. is struggle struggling to just stay on. the surface and he's going to be a seal. So I'm going to make it too. So so we. were having we tried to swim and and all.

that stuff. We got better of course. He. went to bats. Uh I had to wait for my uh. uh for my orders uh first. But even. before I wait for my orders, I went on. in Millington in the A school. Uh I I. found the SEAL motivator was less. barriers. Rest in peace, brother. And um. I went to him. I say, "Look, I have a. document. I would like to be a CL if. possible but my documents in my medical. record says I had a kidney stone so I.

cannot apply for the program for like. year or two years and he like me and say. okay well can you pass the test I say. yeah I passed the test bring me your. documents at that time there was no. electronic documents so he wrote me the. check I run with it uh to medical got my. medical record came to him and say okay. here it is said okay step. outside. As I step outside, I'm just. listening. They're. like, "All right, come on in." So, look,

he he's sitting at his desk. It's like, "Look, I look through your medical. record. I really can't find anything. about a kidney stone. Can you help me. find it?" I say, "Yeah, it's right. here." So, we look and say, "No, it's. not here." He looks at me and say, "Are. you sure you had a kidney. stone?" And by this time, I'm like, "I'm. sure I didn't." Okay, that's good. enough. So, so, so yeah, they put me on. hold after the graduate from I also. graduate I think one of the top on the. class. So then I was waiting for the.

waiverss and I think the waiver was. granted to me because I excel in. everything I did. I did so well and uh. they I think they seen that maybe maybe. this guy because of his age maybe his. age will not uh inhibit him a lot but we. we give him a chance. So eventually. after like maybe 2 months being on hold. in the uh in the a school I got my. orders to B. I called Jason Cabal. I. said, "Brother, I'm coming after you.".

He gave me a tape. I still remember the. tape. I still have it at home, the tape. that he gave me. It was the little. cassette we used to play. So I was just. playing it on the on the on the road. because I was driving to uh uh. California to San Diego. So that's how. my Navy career started and how my SEAL. career started. Did you have any idea what a seal was at. that time? No. Other than skydivers? No, except them. Um, well, they show me the. uh the the the video in the recruiting.

station. I say, "Wow, this is really. cool, but what's the difference between. army?" You know, it's like looked like. an army to me. But, you know, it was was. a uni that this guy recommended to me. and if I could get up there is fine. But. uh again that was not the driving that's. what motivate me to join the navy. So. for me it was not really that important. but my imag the way I imagine uh serial. training was they will be like prison. So I I couldn't think of any other way.

those are special forces. So they will. lock you up there in some camp and you. will be just going through all these. evolutions. You'll be going through all. the training totally isolated from. people. those my imagination and I was. thinking like well you know I'm married. now so be kind of sad for my wife but. well I survived communist prison that. that at least here they don't try to. kill you right they just try to make you. better unlike in communist prison so so. I say I'll be fine well those as you.

know is is not dead there is no prison. actually you have enough freedom they. give you enough rope so you can hang. yourself if you are not careful with. what you do in bats. They they you just. have to manage not only the training but. you need to manage yourself as well. So. um I remember a lot of guys going out. and partying and uh drinking and I would. love to do it too and I did sometimes. too but for me it was more often was Ben.

gay you know robbing on my muscles and. like oh god I need to survive tomorrow. will be maybe better tomorrow I feel. better. Let's hope so. So like as they. were drinking I was rubbing the Ben Gay. and myself trying to bring myself better. in the bed and trying to go to bed early. but it helped you know um I did I did. fair well you know it's like never um I. was rolled back only in the at the. beginning of the first phase because I. get infection in my leg uh they got the.

I got merca on the back of my thigh so. swollen so bad that I I couldn't put my. pants on. So actually I had to cut my. pants to go to medical. But I figure out. this. So okay, I'm not going to tell. them anything. I just go through the. rest of this week. It was like two more. days with the leg like this on Friday. right after the they shut down the. evolutions. I run up to Baloa to. hospital. Let them fix it. So I will. have a three days basically to heal and.

I should be okay. Well, didn't work that. way. I went up there. They did cut this. big piece, the big white piece out of it. and it was thick like my pinky and uh. and my leg was coming down a little bit. I could put my pants on. So uh but then. when in the morning, Monday morning when. I was driving to B is swoll again. So I. had no choice but I had to go to our. medical in BS and tell them what. happened. So what I find out is Baloa. just they cut this out and just let me.

go instead of irrigating it for maybe. like an hour and that's what they did. They actually gave me antibiotics. They. put me on the on the gurnie and they put. the IV into my in that big hole in my. leg and they keep irrigating for me like. 2 three hours and like my legs the the. the swelling came out and everything was. good. So they banding my legs and I came. back say we have to roll you. I say you. can roll me. I said no we have to we. have a mat flats where we are going to.

you cannot go with leg like this and the. hell necks you cannot go to hell with a. leg like this. So I was really like. broken you know I was like holy [ __ ] you. I don't want to be rolled. I say please. let me stay in the class. So I think it. was instructor Graves. No, it's. instructor Fitz Henry. Um he says like. um okay if you can run here five sprint. around five times around this thing I. might keep you in the class. So I say.

right on you know so but I had to still. get a cat on my pants because you know I. had to I couldn't put them on. Uh and I. ran I ran to all these fives and stuff. I said can I stay? It's like nope. 185. So there was from 184 right the. beginning before the mud flats I got ro. 185 I had to start again but it allow me. to heal my leg I don't think I would be. able to I would make through hell with. this big open wound on my leg with. infection in my leg and like swollen. like the elephant leg. Wow. So yeah so.

that was that was my uh my first phase. and uh what did you think what did you. think of butts? Did you find it. difficult being from your I found it. physically very difficult but I didn't. find it mentally uh difficult because. maybe um when. I when I came to. B I I was thinking that this going to be. hell that in is in in the hell that this.

going to be extremely and it was. physically but mentally like for some. reason the instructors yelling calling. names and all that stuff didn't phase. me. I kind of expected it. I thought. that this is actually I thought it was. funny because like I didn't do anything. I yelled it for nothing. So I didn't. show it to instructors that I think it's. funny. I took everything seriously. When. they say drop down, I didn't question. I. said I drop down and push it out. whatever I was told to do. And um I did. I think very well actually one of the. instructor instructor turn just looked.

me I said drop down 50. So I just 50. I. think it was a first phase. So the first. phase, you don't do 50. But uh so I did. it. I sent out the crowner. Just look me. said, well, you know what? I think I. like you. Get the [ __ ] out of here. Go. back in the c in in in the class. So and. then in the hell week, you remember that. there's a time after maybe two, three. days when they get you together and they. ask you, okay, tell me why you come you. come here to Bats and I just have to. tell them what's so here guys. Well, I.

came here to try to be the best. I'm. here to and I will try to finish this. training give my best and say so and so. when they ask me I say [ __ ] I didn't. come here to try I came here to become a. seal and either I will my body will. break down or you kick me out but I I. will come out of of this as a as a I. will graduate from this program. I. didn't came here to try. I mean I didn't. come here to try. They got mad but they. I know they liked it because I I I can.

see they were like right on and then you. know there's a lot of things like this. with the knives you know we had this. knife inspections so they always called. me because my knife you know there was. like cheesy knife but fairly cheap and. they got we have to maintain them very. well. I could put my knife just the edge. like on my hand on my arm and just let. it slide it would shave your hand. They. were that sharp. So they are the they. were calling me sometimes to demonstrate. to other classes how um how you know how.

to maintain the equipment also on the. swim remember I couldn't swim very well. neither was Jason Cabel and uh not only. that I couldn't swim very well I could. swim only on one side the side stroke so. then on the top of it they put the mask. on me I had never swim with mask in my. life this is the really thing I I. thought I would drown Because I remember. I was swimming. I couldn't breathe. because my the mask closed my nose and I. was I was breathing as much water I.

think as much air and I when I came out. of that pool after the first few swims. my belly was so big that just uh I could. feel water slushing in it. And there. were times I remember I was swimming I. was like I'm about to pass out. I I I. have so much water in my lungs and I. have black spots uh in my eyes but. that's like if I stop they will kick me. out. So I know they are watching there.

are instructors there if I pass out I'm. not going to die. So I just like you. have to trust them and slowly become. easier and easier. By the end of my uh. uh there was in the fourth phase was a. preace when they when we finished uh I. was asked actually to demonstrate the. new guys coming into that training how. to do the side stroke. So I was very. proud of it. Wow. Wow. So yeah and Jason. Kamar too he become a really good. swimmer. We we are still friends. So we.

talked to each other and uh great guy. was very inspir inspirational in. inspirational for me. So yeah. So you. you graduated Buds at age 33. Yes. Is. that correct? 33. Yes. And when I check. into team in uh March 2000 uh uh March. 1993 SE team 2. Well, not very many. people get their buds in their 30s. No,

it's uh I think. there's there's very few people that. made it. I think I'm one of that few. that not only made through buds and made. through the SE teams into the SE teams. because as you know very often people. who made through BS they still don't cut. and they they are either removed from. SQT or today before was STD or they were. being removed while in the platoon. either pre-workup or during the event. after the deployments like well no you.

are you are not the guy so you need to. leave and I have friends that came with. me or after me. who made two bots to that selection. check into the teams and they were sent. to the fleet. So that was not. easy not easy for for me being old. because uh especially with my English. too. I I need to say that but at that. time I was still at the stage that when.

you talk to me I had to translate myself. in Polish before I speak to you I had to. translate on on English but I I guess I. did it so fast I was able to do it so. fast that people seldom notice that. that's the issues show up in the uh in. uh CQB where you have to be on your feet. you have to be very fast and uh that's. when I really start uh. uh start occurring to me that I need to.

improve my English. I need to get better. with my English. Matter of fact, when I. came back from the first deployment, you. know, when we come back from deployment, you pick the schools. I want to be a. sniper. I want to go to diving schools, sking school, I want to be instructor. here, there. Well, for me, I didn't have. a choice. I was sent to English 101. school right away. So, it's like the. guys were leaving. Hey, we are going to. the sniper school. you were going drag. So with my I was walking to to the. center up there. It's like English.

101. But you know it helped me. It it. did make the big difference and and. allow me actually to be successful in my. career. How were you greeted at SE team. 2 when you showed up? Uh I think like. most of the guys I was beat up pretty. much you know not the like beat up but I. remember I didn't even make out of the. building. So we checked the quarter. deck. I check in the uh with Master. Chief I think with XO and I was told to.

uh later go to the supply get my gear. So as soon as I walk out in the building. the big courtyard in the SE team too. Uh. that was the guys waiting you over. there. I say okay yeah new new. FNG hop on the bars. I already knew you. know that's like you don't argue with. these old seals. You just do what they. say. So, I jump on the bars, the. pull-ups, situps. Basically, I did the. whole whole PT uh the the the the PT. test that we do every year. And then.

they they didn't want to cuz my my. uniform was the nicest uniform I could. have chain sealed into. I just I press I. just pick every little things make sure. that it's so perfect. So, after this for. PT on the concrete that looked like a. like like like [ __ ] It was really bad. you know, the store lab, sweaty, dirty, dust everywhere, and you know, my my my. nice shoes scuffed. And so of they. didn't want to walk me through quarter.

deck because that was frowned upon. So. they took me to the back gate. They woke. me up when we started three miles run. I. said, "Okay, now you run. You have we'll. see your time what you have." So now you. see that dude with the torn up uniform. holding his hat to his head running like. crazy on the on base because it was on. on on the was not in the team. It was in. the base outside the seal teams. So I'm. I'm sure people were thinking what is. this crazy guy? What happened to this. guy here? So I did that three miles. around came back they say okay go.

continue with your uh stuff now. So I. went to supply, got my gun and the guns, got my all my weapons and everything the. that's the the uh the all the gear that. I needed. I was assigned the cage uh in. SE team 2 and I moved my stuff there and. as my career my my adventure with SE. team started. So that was my welcome to. SEAL teams and you know very often I was. other new guys too a lot of other new. guys and one day they say okay guys you. are invited for Friday kegger at that.

time in SEAL team 2 and all the SEAL. teams I think Friday and end ended at. noon so by the after PT you just clean. your gear clean yourself and you can go. home except in Selin 2 you're required. to attend the kegger so keg of beer was. waiting the Ibe so they say are you guys. guys invited for the kegger today. Friday. So me and other new guys like. dude those are so I think they like us.

you know they invite us to to uh have a. part to party with them to mingle with. these old guys this old experienced. sales. So I was so excited like I think. we all were. But as soon as we walk in, you know, we got just jumped taped, a. little bit kicked and beat up, hang on. the chains and just like bats upside. down, pull up on the to the roof of the. highway while these guys were drinking. No. So they were drinking, laughing. We. just were hanging like a bats all taped. up. Uh once every while they roll us. down the on the chains, some chains they.

they had the dragger bag, you know, the. bag from the diving rig with the pipe. So here new guy will stick in your mouth. your mouth they put the beer in it and. just squeeze and so goes everywhere. All. right drink enough let's go back to. rest. So that was our first days in the. in the teams. Today it doesn't happen or. at least we're not to that extent. because of this frown upon but at that. time there was like regular welcome to. seal teams and I didn't mind it. I mean. it was okay.

I've seen wars. Where? So where was your where was your. first deployment? First deployment we. deployed to um there was in the when the. Bosnia happened we deployed to Italy and. there was the same time when our pilot. got shut down. So my platoon was one of. the platoon that we were flying over the. Adriatic close to the uh if we could. locate him we could pick him up. So. we're searching for him. Uh the other. unit actually uh was tasked with.

recovering him but we were on standby. ready to recover him. That was my first. deployment. Uh so we were normally we. deploy to Micah to in England in Great. Britain but this deployment was to um. they put us in Italy. Uh so this where. we stay there stay throughout the first. deployment. We again we didn't find the. guide or somebody else pull uh our pilot. out. But I'm proud of participating in. these efforts. Mhm. Mhm. Were.

you were you upset that you missed the. war? Uh well, at this time my my concern was. that I'm I'm serving America. I'm I'm. I'm doing good things for America. And. the war, yeah, I wish I could get on it. Uh it was kind of too late. So. um you. know what I learned later too if you. chase the war you will never find the.

war will find you just like happened to. me later but um I was happy where I. where I was you know my idea was to join. the military for the time of war and I. had such a great life that after the war. I will come back and I will resume my. life but then the life that I started in. the Navy was even was so fascinating. that I never left. I left 20 years. later. So, I was not upset, but I I I.

wish I'm I met the uh that war. I I wish. I I went to that war, but I missed it. And how was your wife? Did she follow. you through all this? Was that your. wife? My wife got married to Yeah. So then that marriage didn't last long. Um you see the way as you know our. schedule is constantly on the road. You're constantly somewhere. The thing.

is is in what I learned to understand is. as we do not have that routine because. our life change every month, every two. months you go do something else. Uh our. spouses usually stay in the same place. They have the same routine. they go to. the same places and eventually they meet. somebody they are interested in and very. often that marriage ends this way. So I. didn't understand at that time I was. really upset but uh that's what. eventually happened. So we did get. eventually divorce and um that's. actually what um it was later in the in.

the SEAL teams when I came back from my. deployment and the thing fell apart but. um well we'll get there. Yeah. When was. where were you when September 11th. happened? When September 11 happened, I. was on the in the gym in SEAL team to. were working out. I still vividly. remember that um somebody came in and. say, "Hey guys, I just I just came back. from quarter deck. The airplane hit one.

of the twin towers.". Uh so like most of us right well some. pilot of small airplane got lost and. killed himself so sad but let's go to. work out and then the other guy no guys. there's a. uh those big jetliner that hit the. towers and something is going on. So we. left the gym, went to quarter deck and. seal team 2 were watching. I was.

actually watching when these [ __ ]. bastards around the uh the second. airplane from the second airplane to. another the second tower. I was watching. it. I knew we're going to be hunting. these scumbags. I knew that their time. is up and we'll be killing them. hopefully soon. Mhm. I was watching that and it's still very. vivid in my. memory. Yeah.

What were the prelim conversations that. were happening after that at the SEAL. team? Time to start killing these bastards. You know, um the SEAL teams I think is. the attitude is a bit different. uh like. you know when I went to. Iraq especially after what I've. witnessed what I seen on September 11 I. did not go there to win heart heart.

heart heart heart heart heart heart. heart heart heart heart heart heart. heart heart heart heart heart heart. hearts and minds [ __ ] their hearts and. their minds I want them to kill them. kill them to kill the terrorists I. didn't that that that's that's that's. all I was thinking that kill as many as. many you can the only regret I have from. Iraq we didn't kill enough of them. because and I'm taking ser taking it. very seriously because even today. decades after what the war uh what. happened there I still question myself. what if we get that son of the if we.

kill this bastards if we didn't get him. let him get away if we kill the son of. the [ __ ] maybe one of my brothers our. brothers would come back home whether it. was army marines or or or the navy you. know that's for us they're all brothers. and they we all in the fight together. So sometimes I dwell on it, you know, maybe we if we could kill the bastards, get rid of them, then uh there would be. some of our brothers would come back,

you know, because I believe that, you. know, the best way to win war on terror. is to terrorize the terrorists. I am. terrorist. terrorizer. I I have no qus dealing with. these scumbags. they they you cannot. reason with terrorists. You just have to. kill them and get rid of them. And. that's was my attitude when I went to. Iraq to fight on behalf of America and.

American. people. And so how how long was it how. long was it after September 11th that. that you Well, so the West Coast was. already in the war, right? They were. fighting that there was I think I don't. know when the invasion happened like. March or something 2003 on in Iraq. Mhm. Something at the beginning of the year. we deploy my platoon seal platoon.

deployed to Central South America at the. time. So we're working there in the. middle of deployment. I get a call say. hey Drago this is a there is a a Polish. unit SF unit operating with sales in. Baghdad and uh I think we need you. there. We want you to go and help us out. coordinate that stuff with them. So you. pack your stuff you are 3 months into. deployment I think. So uh you're going. to there for 3 months. to keep up the.

six month. cycle and then you can come you come. back and start your regular work up with. your new platoon and stuff. So in the. middle of the platoon in middle of. deployment you know you can imagine the. guys being pissed off because we are. aggressive guys. We're like type A. personalities. So everybody wants to get. into the war. Everybody wants to fight. the war. So when they find out that I'm. just only I'm leaving to Baghdad. They. were Greg I want to go there too. What. the hell you are? How did you pull this. off? You know, well, I didn't. I was.

just asked I was ordered to go there, but they all wanted to go. They they I. don't know a SEAL who would not want to. go to war. Me neither. So, so they I. know they they were kind of like pissed. off, but the good way, you know, they. were very supportive. And then um so I. left after the like 3 months in. deployment for the 3 months and that was. we were very busy. you were busy every. single night pretty much and then when.

uh the three months came in like I don't. hear anything from my command and I was. calling sometimes Rob O'Neal we're were. really good friends and uh we did entire. platoon with Jacko together that was the. second platoon uh and then the platoon. I'm talking right now is my third. platoon um so uh we. uh I call him. I say, "Hey, Rob, just. tell the command. I'm here. I'm doing. fine. I don't need anything." He say,

"Yeah, I got you, Drago." But there. three months pass. I don't hear from my. command anything. They ask me if uh if. uh I would extend my stay in in Baghdad, the the West Coast guys. I say, "Absolutely yes. Sign me up. I'm not I. don't want to go back." So then I call. Robin. I say, "Hey, Rob, I'm still here. Just don't tell them anything. Just keep. it quiet. I'm still here in Baghdad." So. he ride on drag. So once every while I. call Rob O'Neal uh and I write him. notes, hey, I'm still here. I'm doing.

good. Don't tell them anything. Don't. tell them I'm here. And uh so there's. like this from this three months down to. five, six, seven, eight, nine months. And uh I think I would stay there. longer, but my NVGs broke. So I had to. count the command for new NVGs. And they. got me uh they say, "Hey, where are you. at?" I said, "Bar, how long?" Or like. almost a year on deployment. Well, hold. on. So you so you went. to you deployed to Iraq in 2003. Yes. With who? With I deployed by myself. They sent me.

there to to work with the CL team 5 and. to help coordinate CL 5 uh the the. missions between CL 5 and GR. But we. skipped the one platoon because there. was a platoon with Jako that I did. before right before that. Mhm. So there. was the platoon to Middle East too. There was a first seal into strike. platoon and we uh this is the time when. we hijacked the Russian tank of the. Vulgan uh in year 2000. So there was a.

there was a very good platoon. So was. Jack. uh and uh one second. So that was my. first that was my fourth platoon. I. think is getting mixed up. So first was. the to first was to Italy when Grady got. shut down. The second one was to Bosnia. Third one was with Jaco. Okay. So the. the third one was with Jako. So um so. with the the after the first platoon I. deployed to you we deployed to to.

Yugoslavia to Bosnia. This is where I. met the strongest guy I think I ever met. in serial teams. There was a guy. who when we went to Frenchies to Laurian. to train with the Frenchies. This what a. ugly guys. Uh so uh Chris uh he put like. so many plates on the on their bar to do. the bench press. He bend that bar. The. the plates start falling off. So the.

Frenches got all pissed off that we. intentionally are destroying their. equipment. another Rob uh just was doing. the military presses like 225 pounds or. something. I mean who are strong, we. were big and these little Frenchy guys, they look like the ballerinas. They have. those spandex little pants. Well, yeah. I mean and you know the the nasty part. of it is that when the the on the pepled. we had a French officer with us and and. team too and we just tried to help him.

and cater to him the best we could get. him the best trips best perime and all. that stuff. So when we he left to France. and then maybe like uh 6 months later. when we deploy to Bosnia, we actually. had they decide to have some exercise. with the French guys with this where. this guy was stationed. So we called. this guys hey we're coming you know are. you excited you know we're going to see. your old friends. It's like, "Okay, yeah, just come on in and click." We. show up in the lur end the gate of their.

things. It was a winter time. It's. sleeping, raining. We sit on our bags. and of our uh um on our uh uh you know. gear for like 3 hours before the bastard. showed up. And he showed up not to. welcome us. He showed up and say, "All. right, I know you guys. I know you sees. if you [ __ ] up any of our equipment, you're not going to leave this base. until you pay for all the broken. equipment that you break. Was like. that's a nice welcome. And then they.

didn't want to work with us, you know. They uh they uh like but you know, work. with us. I mean, look at these guys. They were like 110 lbs ballerinas and. they did actually wear the spandex like. really tight pants. So I say just give. them the tutu and you have a perfect. ballerina. So, uh, and and yeah, and. then we walk into their gym and they. have those like jumping jacks, you know, the their the their weights like what. they were using was like 5 pounders, six. pounders. And we have the one of the.

strongest guy in the SE teams, Chris, and he walks in, he breaks their. freaking equipment. They get even more. pissed off. They didn't want to jump. with us. We didn't do anything with. these guys. And um, so they they didn't. really like I guess they didn't like us. And we stopped liking them too because I. say I remember one of the guys asked. Chris Chris Troop I can say his name. because I asked him for permission for. for so again that was one of the.

strongest team guy I met I have met and. also he cut create the programs for us. how to get big and strong by the time we. finished that that uh deployment where. entire platoon was over 200 lb each so. that was a Chris's uh big contribution. to make us stronger and better. So they. they they. just we just couldn't get along I guess. very well. And uh one of these guys. asked Chris, "Well, you are so big. Can.

you run?" He's like, "Unlike you, we don't run away from the. battlefield. So we no I don't have to. run that fast, but I can beat you up.". So like, okay, okay, okay. And then you. know we had a international. incident two of them actually. So first. one we're uh going to San Moritz to do. some exercises there in Switzerland. So. we decided we fly once C130 and we jump.

on the lake in San Moritz. Uh this big. frozen lake and it was pretty beautiful. because the C130 was flying below the. top of the two mountains on both sides. and right in the middle of it. So when. we jump out of it, we like maybe five. six second delay. We could see the uh. the mountains just going on both sides. in freef fall. Then we open parachutes. Well, what did we know and we decide to. get a shortcut instead of fing our. ammunition through the convoy through.

the the roads from Germany to. Switzerland. We say, "Well, the hell we. just loaded up our guns. We put the the. ammo in the in the brook sacks and we. jump in." So we did and there was a. bunch of civilians on this lake walking, you know, doing that. There was like a. trails made up on this lake on the ice. So we basically jump right into the. civilian population and they look at us. unload the gun, you pull the uh you. know, unload the guns, make safe and uh.

they seen it. Well, it turned out to be. that you are not allowed to bring in. Switzerland guns and ammo in the same. place, especially loaded guns. So um I. think we're the first troops signed. second world war that landed in. Switzerland with loaded guns. So this. was like all right I know my platinum it. will do a lot of explanation to do but. then we go to we are invited to and. there was the time when the Switzerland. was accused of stealing.

uh a gold from Holocaust victims and uh. and there was even lawsuit going filed. because of that uh try to recover the. gold that supposedly Swiss Swiss stole. from Jewish people and Holocaust victim. But we were invited to dinner up there. There we already got over the jumping. into the San Moritz into San Mor with. loaded guns. Uh so we got over we barely.

got over with that. We are invited to. dinner now. So they they d they going. like a top of the mountain. So we go on. this little tra train like a choo choo. thing and go straight up. So we go up. there. We are the best restaurant. supposedly in San Moritz and the guy who. was guiding us say hey. um so this is chef Sanso he's such a. great chef known in the entire world and. he has like five golden spoons here chef. can you go run up bring the spoon like I.

never held the gold thing maybe ring but. entire spoon of gold and I never hold my. life so I was like holy [ __ ] this heavy. solid wow you I can brag about it. I was. holding the gold spoon in my hand. So. when the the spoon went around everybody. until went to. Chris, the strongest guy, he look at. this say like warship. So how. many you. think that God of yours, how many Jewish.

teeth went into that. spoon? That was like I got quiet. The. guy woke up, took the spoon, he left. We. never seen the guy again. We'll just. usher it up very quickly out of the. restaurant, go down, and we never were. allowed to go to the restaurant again. Holy [ __ ] But you know what? That's. there was legitimate I guess legitimate. questions. They I I believe in my. opinion the gold the Swiss were stealing. that Holocaust victim's gold and they. were benefiting over the Second World. War. So the guy had the balls to ask.

about it. But you can cut it out if you. think it's too controversial. But that. really happened. So there was like well. we were all sterned but uh like well you. know he's right there a legitimate. question. Yeah because that basically. that that gold that in my opinion was. stolen by Switzerland from Holocaust. vacant. That's interesting. I didn't um. I don't know much about that. Well. there's a actually there was a lawsuit.

filed by I think by people trying to. recover the gold. I don't know. I think. there was came to some agreement but uh. you can Google it up. I I read about it. just not too long time ago as well. There was a time that I remember it was. very common to hear this accusation in. 19 uh uh 79 uh 1978 19 I'm sorry 1998. uh time frame. So yeah that's. Wow. I had no idea. I don't know.

anything about that. That's Yeah. But. yeah, you know, it's just asking a. question. They Yeah, they he was just. asking the question. because these people, they suffered so. much. The Holocaust we we we it's hard. to imagine for people, but there's. millions of people. They were murdered. just for being who they were. Mhm. This. is this is something that could only. happen in socialist state. Please.

remember that Germany was socialist. state. Adolf Hitler was socialist. So. we're talking about national socialism. But you know whatever flavor of. socialism it is this is they all have. many things in common as we talked. earlier. The censorship, persecution of. political opponents, jailing political. opponents. Uh and those are the. hallmarks of uh of socialist state. So, was was your was your Iraq. deployment the first time you saw actual.

combat? Uh, yeah. That was the first. time I seen the combat. Uh, and so let's. let's let's talk about that. So, you've. done four Mhm. four deployments. Mhm. And then you finally go to Iraq to see. actual combats. Yes. You know, we've. seen a little bit of in in Bosnia, not. so much combat, but we've seen the the. war scene. We've seen the the the some. of the atrocities committed there in. Bosnia. You know, we hijacked the Russian tanker and that.

time there was like a holy [ __ ] the. super mission, you know, like today is. really not the big deal. But at the. time, you know, to go. and do VBSS on Russian tanker was really. something. Let's talk about that then. cuz Oh, that's that's the Russian. tanker. Yeah, that that was actually. funny. So, there was a Jackos platoon. Jacko and Mr. Uh, Queen F. Uh, this was. Field Team 2. Field Team. I didn't. realize Jaco was ever on the East Coast. Oh, yeah. He was my AOIC. I've never met.

him. Splatoon. Yeah. Oh, I told you. It. is great guy. Is a great leader. That's. what I hear. Yes. Yes. I was honored to. serve under his command. Very aggressive. guy. We love that. Um so we decid when. we when we got the permission to take. down the. tanker you know there's always. competition between the team guys right. and there one squad another squad was. like oh yeah we are better no we are. better so uh my squad was was taking it.

down because we had like three Russian. speakers I speak Russian I speak Russian. Polish and Japanese but so Japanese yes. Where did you learn Japanese? Oh, when I. was doing kickboxing and I figured out. then some of those commands. I said, "Well, I I can understand the commands, but why don't just learn the Japanese?". And it happened that my mom, she was a. teacher. She had a PhD professor from. Hokkaido University working with her uh.

doing some uh study on Polish. educational system. So uh I connected. with him and he was teaching me. Japanese. I was very proficient with. Japanese actually. I was guiding. Japanese students around my city a lot. especially those new who came and did. not speak uh Polish. So I was able to. help um you know I forgot now it's like. 40 years now but I forgot a lot not. everything but so I was Russian speaker. we had Rob who was Russian speaker and.

our OIC Mr. Queen F great officer he was. the Russian speaker. So we had the. Russian speakers on the initial. assault and the problem was is that they. already knew they were looking at them. What was Well, hold on. What was the. tanker? Vulgft, I think. Vulg 142. You can you can Google it up. It's. online. A matter of fact, there's we are. in Balaclavas, but there's picture of me. standing on the bridge in the in in in. on the vulgar lift. What What were you.

taking the tanker down for? They were. smuggling oil from Iraq illegally. There. was a Russian tanker who smuggled oil. Um, so we're tasked to take it down, but. they knew it already. We're on a. Monterey uh. uh I think for forget forget frigot. frigot. And uh the I like the captain. He he is like okay I was told by command. that we cannot come closer to the ship.

than like a maybe mile. So but but if. you want if you if you want to get. closer to it I come close uh because. they told me mile but I can measure that. mile with my own stick. So he just pull. almost next to them. So we look at them. and say, "Yeah, there's a bunch of like. younger guys and and there were some. women, but the concern was because this. is Russian tanker uh and the Russian. flag and young people who might try to. resist. So you know, Navy has their own.

uh uh boarding teams, they could do. really easy, but because they're. concerned that maybe a firefight can. ensue, uh we're going to take it down.". And another thing too is they they. already knew that we were looking at. them. So they were skirting uh the. territorial waters of other countries. Basically they could just turn left or. right whatever get into territorial. waters. We couldn't get them. We would. have to jump off the.

ship not to cause the international. incidents. No foreign fighter foreign. foreign uh forces invading or getting. into another country. So we had to be. quick. And I remember 2:00 in the night. was Robo Neil came waking me up say, "Dude, let's go. We need to go get. dressed." So, uh, it's like I think it. was nine of us was. Jacko was one of them. Mr. Fiona was we. just got like a 18 and uh it's not like.

the other guys were not team. Everybody. was 18, but they just pick us up on the. like what we can do and stuff. So, we. flew over it. We fast on the tanker. We. got the tanker down under I think 2. minutes if not the minute and they were. yeah they were already turning into the. territorial waters. So we just had to go. and learn how to turn it over. I have a. cool picture with me at the actually at. the helm steering that tanker and um we. did we turn it over and uh then we.

search the ship of course make sure. there's no weapons left or anything. And. this is where the the competition. between the team guys and the the squads. come in. So we took down the target the. target. We now we need a change because after we. were changing like every 6 hours or. every 8 hours whatever the shift was. So. we said okay let's go bring the other. squad. The other guys came in. We pack. we left. The other guys came in. We are. going to change them. So we are going.

there. And it's like dude you just leave. all the guns all the weapons there. really inserts the ship very well and we. can hear this they have a big bag and. clink clunking [ __ ] in it. So like well. what did we miss? You know that not. really good. Doesn't look good. And uh. so we look into the bag and it's like. freaking spoons, forks and butter. knives. I was like dude that's not the. weapon. Well it can be used as a weapon. Your squad didn't do that well because. that could be used as a weapon even the. butter knife. It's like come on. All.

right. So, so just whatever. But Jacko. standing on the on the bridge, the guy. is still clunking that that weapon. He. takes the. binoculars. Oh, cool guys. You like. stole the butter knives, but what about. those axes hanging on the doors up. there? Did you mind to take them? It's. like, so we go and change and the first. thing Russians are pissed. You know, they they were very they were good. people. I think they were just well good.

people. They were thieves. They were. smoking oil, but they were um so they. they are pissed. They were complaining, but when we come back, they're pissed. So like, what's going on? We want our. forks and knives and spoons back. I was. like, why? Why? Why do you need We need. to eat. Well, eat with your hands. Can. you eat with your hands? We speak in. Russia. They didn't speak English. And. they say, well, we would, but we don't. have teeth. and just like pull out. It's.

like there they had no teeth. There was. like uh if you put all the teeth. together from the crew, I don't think. you will have a one full set. So So I. talked to Jack. I explained to you what. happened. He say, "I was getting the. knives back and their forks and their. spurs." So we called back the the boat. came in and just we called the the big. bag with their spoons and they were. happy like they can be like there were. no issues with them whatsoever. How many. of them were there? Uh I think maybe. like 15 or 16 something like that. It.

was not that not that many there just. and then I had the argument with the How. did you board the ship? He we we we fast. rope on it. So and I thought it was. planned already because I was I was the. aopes guy. So I was told to rehearse. guys on the very tall fast roping. So. we're using the 120 foot rope in uh in. uh in Bahrain. I think we're in Bin at. the time. Uh we're using 120 foot rope.

just to practice the the fast roping. right on the mark and the heels were. practicing it too. So that was already. planned I think ahead. They knew this. ship would come out of Iraq with the. Iraqi oil and we're going to we'll try. to intercept it. So we practiced that. and then that was easy. We just uh at. 2:00 in the morning rolled in over the. ship, throw the ropes and just slide. down it. That was pretty cool at the. time. Yeah. Right on. That was pretty cool. Yeah. You know,

and I never did any VBSS in the SEAL. teams. Just one training op. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. So that's uh for us it was. at that time it was a big deal because. we did like small one. We did got couple. of Dows with their smuggling maybe. something. We didn't bother with that. take down the big tanker and the Russian. flag was something. So we we did that. We didn't torment the crew and the crew. was not really um you know they did what.

they what what they had to do but they. were not. uh not cowering or anything. They were. just like normal people you know. Mhm. So let's take another quick break. When. we come back we'll pick back up in Iraq. Join me and my special guest for the. next behindthecenes experience. exclusively available on Vigilance Elite. Patreon. The behind-the-scenes footage. is raw and uncut. This is as close to.

the set as you can possibly get. You can. expect anything from off-topic. conversations, studio tours, the final. moments before the interview starts, and. everything in between. The. behind-the-scenes content is constantly. evolving and we'll continue to bring you. more as we grow. You can gain access for. just $15 a month exclusively at. Vigilance Elite Patreon.

All right, Drago, we're back from the. break. Let's pick up to your first.

deployment to. Iraq where you saw a lot of combat, it. sounds like. So, you went from South. America to Iraq to be a liaison with Sil. Team Five for the Polish Grom, correct? Mhm. And so what a lot of questions, but. I just let's start with what was it like. for. you to go to combat and to be a liaison.

with the Polish Grom? Well, being Polish. Yeah. Well, for me, first first thing I didn't know what the. GR was. Uh I was told there was Polish. special forces. So, and when I checked. in uh Baghdad, I had a brief from my. commanders and they were kind of. standoffish say we don't know who these. guys are and uh and they brief me on. what's expected, what do we need to do, but then I was thinking like the best.

way to find out is just to go on the. with them and do it work with them. But. I was like, well, we don't know these. guys that well. You know, we cannot risk. your life. Because you know how it is. It get dicey, you know, in those. missions sometimes, especially the the. assaults and direct action mission. And. I understand that because if something. was to happen to me while I'm working. with GR, there could be some. repercussions to my commanders too that. they allow these things to happen. But I. was able to convince them. I say like no.

if uh if we want to be effective I mean. I we need to cooperate closely but I. need to be with them too as well. So. they allow me to for maybe like first. three missions and then it was like all. out say yeah these guys are great you. know go ahead yeah do it you know that's. fine let's coordinate let's do we did. start doing assaults together so very. often we if we need more if we needed. more people we bring the Grom guys if. Gro need more people he use us on. assault and then one night we did the.

set up the perimeter and Grom was doing. assault I was doing it and then next day. was the vice versa that the ground was. doing parameter and we were doing. assaults. So for me it was pretty great. I was like double dipping on the. missions and I was I loved it. So uh how. were they did they did they operate the. same as we did? They operate pretty much. the same way. We find out that their. tactics are good. Their weapons are. pretty much the same. Their manufacturer. of their M4 was different at the time. and they had some issues in the desert.

environment with it but there was just I. think something minor. It was noticeable. to them. We didn't we didn't really. register it and uh they were quick too. Their assault techniques were very fast. and uh uh I would say I don't say brutal. but these guys are pro consumed. professionals. they don't tolerate any. deviation from their SOPs you know. unless this some flexibility is needed. to save lives or to accomplish the.

mission but otherwise they are they are. well trained and again like I say they. are fast the funny thing is when we. sometimes when we snatch the bandits. terrorists we had to get them with us so. if we got the car and it happened that. hey we have bad guys moving on the. location you need to bail out you need. to stop what you doing? Get out. Um, so. to evacuate sometimes they just once. they handcuff the guy, we handcuff the. guys. So when we walk them down the. stairs, grown them just toss them to the.

window. The other guys were waiting. They cut them, throw them on the HVY and. here we go. So the our guys were asking. sometimes why it's so fast. I say. because they don't [ __ ] around. They. just like when they when they have a. terrorist in their hands, they just the. guy is just flying out of the window to. into a Gro's carrying hands and they put. him on the HVY and they are ready to go. So that that was a kind of surprise for. me too because I didn't expect them to. be so well trained and so well. coordinated. Their assaults were working.

just like ours, you know, very similar. if not the same tactics because they. learn from the same people. So they uh. they had the exposure also more exposure. to SAS and German special forces. But. this was not. um that was uh uh that was good because. we can actually benefit from their. experience as they were benefiting from. our experience. It was a mutual uh I. think cooperation and and work on uh.

accomplishing the mission. So our. missions were together. Interesting. Yeah. I never I never got to work with. them. But uh I remember when I was. contracting for uh CIA, I saw them. They. were colllocated. uh to an. adjacent forward operating base and. those guys were busy. They were going. out several times a night. They had. these dune buggy looking things and they. were just tearing it up. Yeah. But and. uh made me extremely jealous to watch.

But uh I was like, "Oh man.". Um yeah, so they what about their like. team dynamic? Do they have a good. camaraderie? And same like ours. It's. like much different. Yeah, they they are. very close with each other. I would say. uh because they are way smaller than us. They are very close. They these guys. know each other better than they know. their family members just like us too, you know. Um so yeah that's that that. was very not only uh educational for me.

for I think for all of us to work with. them it was also very pleasant very nice. to work with them doing the assaults. take down the targets we we we really. enjoy working together and it was. getting to the point even that some of. our guys were coming in and so hey Drago. can you help me can you talk to Gro guys. so I can do assault with them and uh. just so I can put my record that I I I.

did war with Gro I did the the direct. action missions with them. So yeah, we I. think they they had they didn't have a. problem with them because they trusted. us. So we have quite few guys uh going. on targets with them uh if they wanted. to and I have quite a few pictures of it. as well from our guys working together. with Grow. Did they did they speak. English at that time? they did not today. there's a requirement you cannot be in. the grom uh without speaking English so.

they are very proficient I would say. some of them speak better English than I. do because there's a requirement as they. go to regular schools and uh besides the. training they everybody had to learn. English besides in Poland now English is. very popular uh like before everybody. had to know Russian like in my case we. had to learn Russian uh today nobody. force people to learn English but people. want to learn English because it's so. productive because it is so uh. empowering. What were the I mean I'm. just curious what were your.

conversations with them? I mean have. conversations there was very technical. ones because you know doing the the. assault mission with the direct action. mission in within the foreign unit is. could be very dangerous. So we did. rehearse things, you know, I had to. learn their way of communication, their. tactics because I speak Polish. Uh then. there was no issue to learn that stuff. But the first conversation was of just.

yeah incorporate me into their. structures and that was uh yeah that was. a little bit intense. But uh they were. great guys. So they they were very. helpful. A lot of fun too, a lot of. laugh you know because my polish was. very rusty at the time. things that I I. still do say things that means totally. different things that I intend to say. but at that time yeah so that they were. very helpful but then we started. drinking together we started having uh. party together too whenever there was a. chance it was a bit uh if we could and.

uh that that was like this is how we. created bonds that persist even today. between those team guys who worked with. Gro or even those who didn't but heard. about our missions with GR. that uh that big friendship continue. too. You know they still come here. sometimes to states when we go up there. they are always helpful try to you know. help you and accommodate uh our guys. So. the friendship that we create on the. battlefield continues and still is uh we.

are very close. What I mean you had not. been back to Poland since you left. correct? Yes. So did you have a lot of. questions about I did. Uh yes I did. I. was asking them about stuff. Well, I did. when I went to with my SEAL platoon in. 1995 for brief couple days, three days. visit in Dansk. We didn't work with GR. We don't we work with their commandos. from formosa uh unit and uh so I kind of.

like a little bit seen for me it was. surreal because I left as a felon a. criminal and then I was greeted as a. hero in Poland when I came back you know. not maybe as a hero but I was greeted as. a valuable. uh respectable person that's was very. kind of different for me uh that first. visit and And um but yeah, there was a. very short visit. So the first longer. visit that was later on when I retired.

from the Navy. So what I mean did they. have questions for you about what it was. what your Yeah, they did. Childhood was. like prison and you know for them the. more significant thing was that I was. part of the solidarity trade union. movement in Poland 1980s. For them big. deal was that I participate in. underground structures and I resist. communism. for them was very fascinating. that I was uh that I spent time in. prison fighting for Polish freedom. So. they were very uh respectful of that and.

uh but otherwise there was a lot of. questions about America you know like. how how is the life how are the people. how is the uh how did it happen that I. succeed they became who I am and where. some people were not that successful and. uh so there was a lot of questions that. I had to answer about America about my. life in America and about my America. did they have I.

mean but I bet there was a lot of. chatter back and forth about did you. were you very curious about what Poland. was like now or did you at that time I. was curious because uh again remember. they were part of the warso pact they. were opposing us NATO so they were. trained to fight us and suddenly here we. are working very close I think Yeah, I I. think we work so close with them. I.

don't remember in combat working uh any. other forces from different countries. working that close with us with SEALs as. Polish Grom did. So that's they earn a. lot of respect uh in in our community. but also I believe we earn a lot of. respect uh for them. for them was. curious you know how the foreigner like. me can come somebody like me can come to. America and join the more secret uh. forces the tip of the spear the America.

has so the they were yeah they were a. little bit fascinated by this how is it. possible we we know in our unions the. foreigners cannot serve you have to be. US citizen you have to have access to. secret clearance you have to have a. secret clearance to serve in SE teams So. that's something that um for them was. very fascinating. How did I pull it off? I said, "Dude, this is America. You can. be whatever you are able to be. There's. nothing holding you back. And if you. can't do this or that, there's there's.

no politicians there saying that you. can't. There's in America there is. nobody there saying holding you back and. say you can't do that. As long as it is. legal, as long this is something that is. beneficial, hopefully it's beneficial. for the country, for America and for. other people, you are encouraged to. succeed and people will help you to. succeed. This is the big difference. between other countries. This is what I. want to uh they want people to use this.

book as that vantage point to see it how. different we are that the America that. was built on goodness on personal. freedom on on on on being strong and. independent and on the faith uh uh that. make America so great. And this also. rolls into the the way people in America. treat other people with with compassion. with help. And I experience uh every.

single one of this. So yeah. Do you. think they were fascinated by this? Did. did any of them want to come over? Yeah, some of them did. No kidding. Asking. about can I be a SEAL? I said well why. would you want to be a SEAL? you are on. the one the top tier of the uh special. forces and uh but you know somebody was. asking that say is it possible because. this is something what did they say when. you asked why was that what did you what.

did they tell you they say because sales. have the reputation they have because we. are the best I didn't inquire too much. into it but some of them were like hey. if I could do it again I would just do. what you just did I say well you know I. didn't do it because uh I I did it. because I left Poland because I had to. leave Poland. But uh you don't have to. leave Poland. There's no reason for you. to do it. I joined then military because. I had to my depth of freedom that I had.

to pay back. But you don't have to do. it. You're living in the free country. Wow. Wow. So that's what I told myself. when I came to America and that's what I. follow with today. That's That's my. pledge to America and American people. So, let's talk to let's talk about So, you got to Iraq, you start seeing real. combat. Mhm. What was your first.

engagement in Iraq? I think first we did. snatch couple of the guys in the. highriser. So, we did breach. We get the. guys out of the we are so quick that. they they had no chance to to to to do. anything. So we are we got them and this. is where I learned that not everything. that we learned in the breaching school. actually works like that. Some of the. breaching charters for example I don't. want to go into details here were not.

very effective were not uh or were. outright dangerous to uh to to not so. much to us but to people on target. We. find out we found out that most of these. targets were hitting. They were. terrorists hiding behind women and. children and they tend to put them in. the front next to front door or. somewhere close so they can have a route. of escape while we stumble over their. family members and u breaching the way. we used to do was very could be.

potentially life-threatening to people. there and we had to change. As a matter. of fact, we had the army guys uh the the. the in charge of the theater. I think. they they they they call us to uh scale. down with the breaching because they. don't want civilians to get hurt. So we. had to actually change some of the. methods we were doing, make it safer for. them but also for us but also the. breaching charges that actually I was.

instrumental in developing it and make. that charge uh uh available to all of us. and that was widely used later by SE. teams in Baghdad and in Iraq. So that. was that was pretty good stuff. Uh I. remember I was breaching the steel door. with the woman. We didn't know at that. time yet, but she was maybe like 3 ft 2. feet away from the steel door and uh we. bridge the we bridge I bridge the steel. door went inside. She was uninjured.

Well, we trample over her because she. got scared and fall down on the floor as. we rush into the apartment to that. house. Uh we trample her a little bit. but otherwise she was untouched. If I. use any of the other chargers that we. used to train with, uh, I would kill. that. woman. So for me, this it means a lot to. that. Um, I contribute not only. to killing these people, but bad guys, but also to saving those lives that were.

innocent on target. What was. the what was the daily life routine. there? Were you guys going out all the. time? We. became. vampires. But also the way I look at it. is like a customer service like a. government customer service. But you. know my customers, our customers were. always wrong and we got to kill them. So. that's kind of good things. But the life.

was um we wake up in the maybe 3:00. sometimes 4:00 in the afternoon. uh get. ready, rehearse what we need to. rehearse, plan for the mission uh in the. at 2 o'clock in the morning, 3:00 in the. morning, we start at the time. We didn't. use the same time. We um uh got in the. Humvee to the target or close to the. target. We move on it and we either. snatch or kill the bad guys and then.

move out before they could catch us. The. the thing is that at that time we didn't. have armored vehicles. So we were. exposed to the IEDs very much and also. to the enemy. So we actually had to. remove the doors from the our HV. So we. had a couple guy few guys on the p on. the back and our seats were facing. outwards. We put the installed the skis. on the side of the car outside. So we. were sitting facing outside with the.

guns. We actually look like a porcupine. HV was looking like a porcupine. I have. like 17 17 hours video from my helmet. camera from those DAs. So, this is. something that um and when I'm looking. now, it's just uh it's incredible how we. could get away with stuff that you know. today as the battlefield requirements. and the tactics change may not be able. to do so, but at the time we are we were. sometimes we were just lucky to do it.

What was the first up? where you killed. an enemy combatant. Uh that was we. breached the. uh we breached the. uh those two apartments next to each. other and we breached one the other guy. there two doors were breached. The one. guy was. uh kind of jumped away to the dirt the. holes pre-made in the opposite wall in.

the long hallway and when we went in uh. just like it just happened. The guy was. just standing next to me. So the other one was in the Humvey. We. were uh driving I think we were riding. back to base and there was a vehicle. came in and just like trying to pull. next to us. pool next to us and uh he. just didn't want to stop, didn't want to. back out and that was kind of suspicious. at the time. It was I think like 3:00. 4:00 in the morning on the way back. No,

I'm sorry. We're just driving on another. mission to cuz we were hitting up. multiple targets at the time. So, I just. have to stop him and I stopped the guy. So, did that affect you at all? Uh, no. No, killing never affected you. Uh, not. really because uh I did what was right. for America and I there was just we were. all prepared. I never seen in Iraq. anything that I was not prepared to see. I never did any in Iraq anything I was.

not prepared to do by US Navy. So I it. really not. [Music]. really that didn't bother me at all. I. wish I could kill more of them. Because like I say earlier, if. we if they if that one that got away, maybe we were able to kill him, some of. our brothers would come back to uh come. back home. Maybe that was that guy who.

got one of us. So that that ways in me. sometimes at night I think about those. who get away and I would like to kill. So you guys were doing multiple targets. a night. Yes. Sometimes. Sometimes at. night, sometimes daytime, hitting. daytime targets, too. It depends, you. know, like we our missions were were dictated. by the circumstances. So if we need to.

get somebody, it was only chance to get. him at daytime. We did that daytime. He. didn't get the guy. Uh we prefer nights, of course. Most of our missions were at. night, but it was nothing unusual to do. something in daytime. If we had to do. it, we were prepared for either way. You guys did over a hundred direct. actions. Mhm. In what amount of time? Was it? What amount of time?

The time. Yeah. Well, that was within. the first year in Iraq. Wow. most of it. What was your bronze star. for? Uh on target hand. It was a. handto-h hand combat uh with with the. insurgent and we needed this guy. We. needed this guy alive. So uh I was able. to go and basically kick his ass back. and tag him and take him out. Could you. be a little more descriptive?

Um yeah with uh I don't want to go into. too much details because you know the. the today's environment but basically he. uh tried to first try to move away we. need to go stop him and I was on the way. so when he rushed through me he didn't. he didn't make it and uh he end up uh. actually. uh try to do it again and. uh he was uh pretty aggressive. So the.

easiest way was to kill the guy, but we. needed this guy. So I was able to go. take him down and. eventually Oh, yeah. Pumar him a little. bit, handcuff him and bring him down. So. yeah, that was the guy. What Who was it? Um that was I don't remember who he who. he was but we have the list of the. guys that.

was there was so many of them I just. don't I don't remember that this. particular guy who who he was I remember. I see his face I see his uh you know I. still vividly remember that but uh yeah. how did you get him down. with my fists with. my legs and my gun. So, I didn't have to. I didn't want to shoot him because again. that was not the guy I wanted to shoot. But it came to the to the yeah to the.

handto-h hand combat. So, this is what. my bronze star actually says that that. that what happened that describes. that. Drago, welcome back. Nice to be. back. But, um, man, I was hoping you. would come back. I mean, one of the. hardest parts about. interviewing special ops guys that have. done just. phenomenal stuff is is trying to break. through the humility. Nobody wants to.

talk about the veracity of what they've. done in combat. And uh we very lightly. breezed over your bronze star and then I. was I was hoping I would get a call from. you saying, "Hey, we should probably go. into a little bit more detail on that.". And I know it's hard to break through. the humility and um but at the same. time, I mean, it's important. It's. important that people understand what. what the sacrifices that were made over.

there are and and what it's like. And. so, I just I just want to say I really. appreciate you coming back to to give us. the full scoop on on what happened that. day with your bronze star. Yeah. Thank. you. You know, this is something that. uh is is The the way I see it is the. stories are being said some of the. stories are being said quite often and. that makes almost desensitize people to. uh what we go through. We are just human.

beings just like like anybody else but. people listening to these stories. listening watching these movies they. don't see us as human beings often not. everybody they see often see us as just. a little part of the machine. If you. fall out, you f you fall that just well. just expect it. Let's get another guy. And uh that's what I think is important. that our society doesn't see us that.

way. We are all individual people. We. are all human beings and everybody that. falls is uh those hero. They shouldn't. be seen as just little pieces of the. machine that can be easily replaced. So. I was never uh yeah I try not to talk a. lot about these stuffs and nobody ever. asked me about it that it's important. you know it's it's documenting history. you know and and um and I don't think. anybody sees any of the the guys that I.

bring in here is just part of the. machine or. or invincible because we do you know we. start at childhood and go all the way. through the career and then the pitfalls. afterwards and and we did that with you. and and I do it with everybody too and. the reason I do that is to humanize you. know to humanize yeah this is very. important who I'm speaking to and to. humanize them in front of the audience. and so but let's let's go in so let's. just start at the very beginning yeah.

that I remember that you know I did so. many of these DAs that they got 20 years. later all get blurred up this one kind. of sticks out because as we so we move. out like we always work. We try to work. there. We did some daytime missions too. But we try to avoid. So at night the cal. came in. We had to get the guy. He was. like one of the leaders in finance I. believe who u we don't want to kill him. Just need this guy. So uh we came to the.

set. point and then was this a capture kill? It was capture of kill. Yes. Yes. Yes. preferably. capture but you know like we never had. this uh type of priorities like you. cannot kill the guy you have to cap you. have to capture him that's very. dangerous concept u but uh so for us was. like you know like if we can we try to. capture the guy but we really try it so.

we came to the set point we disembark. and uh patrol towards the target and as. we patrol we made like maybe. 20, 30 yards from that where we supposed. to cross over the fence. Then the whole. hell broke loose and that was just like. the bullets were flying everywhere. And. you know how it is that you don't in. urban environment is kind of sometimes. difficult pinpoint where the when the. shots are coming from especially here. from behind you in front the sides and.

then u you don't see mazl. If you see. maslers, yeah, you you know. where where this coming from. But so we. just hang for a second on the side of. the fence. And like we're not going to. be waiting here forever. It's time to. go. So we just move along that fence. This a few yards back. We we we put the. ladders while we while this all the [ __ ]. is going on. We cross that thing. We. approached the doors. I breached the.

door. We blew the door up. What' you. breach it with? What's that? What did. you breach it with? Explosive. Explosives. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We bridge. with explosives. At the time, most of. our breaches were with explosives. You. know, it gives us that extra couple. seconds uh when the enemy is. disoriented, where the terrorists are. disoriented. So, we can take the. advantage of it. So, it was preferable. entry method for us. And then I uh so as. we breach, we enter the house. It was. pretty big.

house. And we kind of knew the uh how it. is set up because we have the the intel. know what to expect inside even inside. And there was like as we enter was like. short hallway then it was like a maybe 2. ft to the right and there was a wall up. so you can see the wall. The guy was. standing behind the door when I blew the. door. So he just backed out basically to. throw him off a little bit but he was. still on his feet. So there I was coming. into the house as a second guy. So the. guy went left, I went right and up this. guy. So he's doing nothing just standing.

there. He's he's he's blind from the. flush. And uh so I throw him on the. ground. I bag him and tag him. And then. I move on to the What do you mean bag. him and tag him? Well, just basically. make him ready to be move out. And what. does that entail for the audience? I. know what that means, but what does Oh, okay. So basically subdue the guy, handcuff the guy. You know, you can say. bag and tag. Basically kill the guy, put. in the body bag and move him away. But. that that's not what I mean of I guess.

just you know throw him on the ground. get handcap him get the guy ready to be. moved out. So we did that and I joined. the guys and clearing the house and the. the shed is still going on. outside. So when I uh we walked to the. second floor I don't remember it was two. or three floors. I think it was two. floors but was a big house. So as we. clear the rooms on one of the room as we. enter it there was a crazy I think the.

craziest thing I've one of the craziest. the crazier thing that I remember the. guy just charges the full speed and I. don't know if he's trying to charge me. or he's just tried to run away from that. room. Anyway, he just bumps into me. So. throws him on the ground. He drops the. gun. So now I look at this guy. He has. no he has no gun. The room is pretty. much clear. So, as I'm getting this guy. now, he jumps back again, kicking, screaming, and punching. So, as the the.

fight is going on, I'm getting the cal. Well, I I could shoot the guy, but he. was not armed. So, really, that's there. was no no need to shoot the guy. And uh. as the cow as I'm working with the guy, the cow comes in. Hey Drago, you need to. stop the Gro guy element is moving on. the backyard and there are three guys in. ambush laying. So tell them stop them. Tell them to wait. The hill is coming to. las them. Put the laser beam on them so. the guys know where they are. So I'm.

here trying to get this guy compliant. and the same time speaking on the radio. So I I'm I put my gun at the time kind. of to the side. I had another guy in the. room too, but he was busy still doing. his stuff. So. u and uh at the same time I I'm I'm. talking to on the radio to Polish guys. in Polish that don't move on that bar. Just hold on the hill is coming and I.

will get you there to. um uh uh they will let you know where. the guys are. So they stop and at the. same time and the bullets are flying. into the room through the windows too. So I remember I heard like a two of them. came and uh you don't hear the the the. the there's not a whistling like you can. see on the movies there just a crack and. there's just the the impact on the wall. So and then the grown guys is calling me. too telling me that hey we are moving on.

this on we see these guys now we know. where they are there's element. maneuvering to the side so taking the. crossfires from the side and then uh uh. so then I relay this to our guys while. I'm bagging the guy. So eventually uh. yeah I I I bike him tank him. That was. the guy. Uh but I don't know which guy. it was the one that we were after but I. think we're after all of them. So I. think we hold like from this target. maybe like four guys or five guys. We.

left I think some guys there. They were. like not important. But anyway the call. came in high. We need to move out. because I think there's a group of guys. coming on us. You know, we have a. limited uh number of people. So, we we. are not set up. to run and gun for like an hours. It's. very surgical. Yeah. Very surgical. So, we just grabbed the guys that whoever we. had and uh bailed out and uh left the.

whole the whole neighborhood. The whole. neighborhood. Yeah. Because the guy was. very important. So, they had. the he had a setup. Okay. Like security. is set up inside the house and outside. the house in the parimeter. The. perimeter was the one that that open up. on us and uh our external security. actually was duking it out with them. took care of them uh at the same time. while we were clearing the house and. banging tagging the bad guys in the. house. So yeah, we got them and uh I say. nobody got hurt. Those Iraqis in the.

house, they pretty quickly realized that. that's not good idea. They so we got. them too. And uh that was uh you know. that was memorable that was like one of. many those missions that they you do it. for so long time that uh it is uh it. became like almost like a normal thing. but it's not the most memorable mission. like that that the most like impactful. on me mission that I did. So uh when did.

you find out well what was it like. leaving before we get there? What was it. like leaving with the whole neighborhood. shooting at you guys? Well, that was. pretty pretty dicey because uh at the. time like when we were leaving the. house, there was still [ __ ] going on. But as we were leaving by the time it. was everything was suppressed. So there. there was not so much. There was pot. shots here and there. You can see you. can hear the bullets cracks. You can. hear bullets cracking here and there. But there was no the intensity that was. at the beginning was at the beginning.

was especially when our 50s open on the. amies. Holy [ __ ] That was like whole. hell broke loose. Uh this where we were. breaching the door at the same time. So. yeah, that was uh that was uh yeah, I. remember that. I just never pay uh. attention to like each particular. mission for me. Uh you ask me into one. What's that? It all blends into one. All. all blends into one. Especially if you.

do it for so long. And uh another thing. like I say the thing more impactful for. me was the one time we were in the. house clear doing the clearing the. house and I was on the left side of the. hallway. There was a guy on my right on. the other side of the hallway and you. can see commotion in the end of the. hallway is a hallway. It's like. maybe. 30 40 30 feet maybe. It's pretty long.

hallway in the dark and you can see the. commotion. You can see like feet coming. out and then coming out. You can see. like a half. dresses and then you see the. gun and then the people come out and you. can hear the guys just like hey drop the. gun drop the gun. Uh those Iraqis, I. don't think they understood what he's. what he was what they were what we were. saying. Besides, he was so stressed out.

When I look at this, this is like old. man and old woman. He's holding her. hand. He's walking with this gun and. pissing himself at the same time. I was. He looked like to me 80 years old guy. So, and I can hear that. So I had a guy. on the top had a guy low on the on the. opposite corner and the guy who came low. later can I could almost hear the click. I say that I I just didn't want the guy.

to get killed. Mhm. So I just say I got. it. I got it. And I step in front of. these guys barrels. Uh I could walk on. my side. I just didn't want them to. shoot this old man. So I walk up there. I walked this guy. Yeah. I had my. usually that's very short and force. So. as I was walking up to this guy, you. know, I am in his heart. I mean, I would. just pull like if he would just try to. do something because he was holding the. guns. He didn't aim at me. He was like.

for maybe like little bit a little bit. down. So I woke up to him. I took this. gun away from him. And uh and then um so. when we we we we took the guy with with. us. It was one of the guys we needed. uh. went after. So when we uh when we were. leaving, his old wife came up to me and. say like, "Thank you very much for not. killing us." Because I told him to put. the gun away, but he was he thought that.

this maybe some insurgents or some. people got to kill him. So thank you for. not killing him. Wow. And I got a lot of. flack from our guys, too, because you. know, think about it for a second. Uh. that was kind of selfish on me, but I. just did not want this guy to get. killed. Um because there was very. quickly point out to me on the debrief. What if that this guy were just there. and there was other guys just waiting in. the dark hallway when you can't see it? We had a we had a flashlight too. So we.

hear the commotion, put the flash, we. see the gun, right? So and and that you. were right in front of our guns. We. wouldn't be able to do anything. you. can't do it. I understand. I agree with. them. It It was not tactically the was. wrong thing to do. I don't know. You. felt it. I just felt it. I just felt I I. don't want this guy to get shot. His old. wife, you know, they holding hands each. other. This guy is just barely walking. They have still those house shoes, those.

flip-flops on. And then Yeah. And he's. holding this gun is shaking like this. And I. remember you can see the dark spot on. his this pajamas. And I I think he still. had this funny hat with his like this. little funny ball, you know, just like a. uh you see in the cartoons. Mhm. So. yeah, that that's that sticks out to me. for two reasons. One's that Yeah, maybe. what I did was wrong because it could.

endanger me and maybe other guys in the. house. I just did not want this guy to. get shot and I think I I I was afraid or. he was about to be shot and and you know. this woman standing by him. So wow. So. yeah that's that was very that was very. impactful on me. I don't know was brave. say it was stupid but it was just I I I. just felt it was the right thing to do. You know if I I could get shot because. you know that these guys are not. worrying about this stuff. if there was.

somebody there, there was many times. they just shoot their own people just to. get to you. So there there wouldn't be. any hesitation. Uh and yeah, I agreed. with the guys that yeah, I was on wrong, but it was I mean I think it was brave. I mean, you know, maybe you weren't. thinking about it at the time, but I. mean, not only getting shot by your own. guys because everybody's hyped up. I I. know I wouldn't. Maybe when the. firefights start they they maybe they. will have to fire above me but I trusted.

these guys. There's also the possibility. that the that the man would have had a. suicide vest on. True. You know and but. you know I didn't think about it. I just. see this lost old grandma grandpa. walking with the gun scare shitless. So. and and you know he didn't drop the gun. It was the cows being made. I don't know. if he understood the English. No, he. didn't actually because we we talked to. him later before we took him and he. could barely speak English, but his wife. spoke English. So, wow. But the wife.

they were so scared they wouldn't be. able to utter a word up there and they. were working on our guns. So, so when. you got back from the from the mission, when did you find out who it was that. you had pucked? Um, we already knew who this guy was. I. just don't remember. He was the guy who. uh he was one of the like big financiers. of those IEDs and and those terror. groups in Baghdad. So he knew a lot. Uh. so in the house like we didn't know who.

is who at the time. So we tried to bag. everybody and uh and bring in whoever we. we had there. Uh he was identified. later. So but you know like with the. names I knew their names because we had. to learn for the mission. So you can. call you you. It was just like normal. for me. But now 20 years later, there. was so many of these Muhammads that I. really don't remember. Yeah. What did the I'm just curious. Do you. know what? Do you remember what the.

write up says? Uh not really. I never I know what it. says, but uh it's uh like I don't dwell. on it, you know. So, uh, it says nice. I. like some I'm sure nice. I read it. It's. just like, yeah, you know, I'm sure somebody else. could say it with much. better eloquent in much better eloquent.

way. I'm still better with bullets than. words. So, for me to come and speak. about anything is pretty scary. I think. one of the bravest thing I have done. being just be able to go and face the. camera and microphones and speak but I'm. better with bullets so you know maybe. somebody else can tell the story better. but uh it is what it is you know we were. we are human beings we are not robots we.

are just just the people. and how long how many times did you go. to Iraq. I went there three times uh back to. back. So I spent the year first on first. deployment. Uh came back. It was another. SEAL team coming out and they were. slated to work with Gro as well. So I I. asked them if they can just take can. take me for I just wanted to go back and. if they can take me with with them they. say yeah sure absolutely. So that's.

supposed to be like two weeks just the f. the fam let them have help them settle. down with Grom but then like four months. later it's like my team is calling us. say hey Drago you need to come back. because we are about to deploy after. these guys was then there was the time. when entire team was deploying so they. uh they say you can uh you need to come. back and then one back with my platoon. again the missions changed the tactics. changed at the time so we were tasked. with protecting uh Iraqi uh politicians.

So my platoon had one of those big wigs. Iraqi that uh we were protecting those. PSD mission mostly. Although wherever I. could I was just trying to get away from. babysitting the old grown man, old grown. fat man and try to get on the DA. mission. So I was still able to to do. that. And some people accuse me that. even now that I was just doing my own DA. missions on my own, but it was not. really that much on my own. But I was. trying to to get us as much into the.

those missions as possible. But uh you. know I paid the price for it too with uh. being a breacher you know the the. injuries that we sustained that we. didn't know at the time of how dangerous. it can be. So that was when on the on. the first deployment I think I start. feeling first symptoms first things but. like I say I was afraid to say anything. because I didn't want to be pulled out. of the uh missions. So what were the.

symptoms? What were you feeling? At. first was I was I was not able to read. So what I find out that uh I was trying. to read but I couldn't concentrate on. the text. seems like that thing was. jumping. And uh so I I figured it out. that maybe this is because uh the the. the the lightning cuz we were living in. the tents. Uh outside was very hard and. bright. Very hot and bright. So most of. our activities during the where we sleep.

or like eat was in the tents or inside. So I said, "Well, maybe I just my vision. is bad because the dark environment.". But then I noticed that I cannot read. even if I can follow the letters because. I forget if I read the. paragraph I forget what it was paragraph. about by the time I finished it. So that. was kind of weird and so I sometimes it. took me a hour to get to the page. So. that's was odd but I didn't make much of.

it. I kind of uh brushed it off. I still. was strong. I was thinking for a clear I. just couldn't read. So that's no big. deal. It's not like I have to read some. manuals to. terrorists, right? So so I was fine and. um then the balance issues start issues. start showing up that that much later. and the sleep disturbance. So that's was. u and irritability too as well. So.

that's when uh when I start thinking. that something is uh not quite right. then. Yeah. But you know we were like sometimes five. feet six feet from the breaching charge. and. uh besides me as a bridgeer I learned. very quick in Iraq to calculate the. charge and stand of distance for my team. uh for my guys by the manual by the. book. But I also did another calculation.

just for me if I can't get in the cover. What's the minimum there is that I can. still breach the door without injuring. myself? It happened to me not once but. there's one very dramatic time where we. actually were assaulting the the target. We was we look you know we get the intel. photo in pictures. So we look at it we. just from the our best ability this what. we make. We're going to go solve these. doors. This is how it's going to go. And.

uh this is where we stag our guys. This. as a breach, right to brief it before. the mission to our guys. And we did, you. know, we had a secondary entry point. We. had all that stuff pretty much ready to. go. And the the picture shows just empty. space maybe like that wide between the. concrete wall and the building itself. And then it has a corner here where they. just walk straight to the door. So I. say, well, I'm going to stack the guys. right there. the way I breathed. I'm. going to go to the door and blast the. door, go inside. It's just standard. mission. We did tens, hundreds of them.

And. um that one. time we didn't know that from the. pictures, but that space was filled with. the robots. There was just enough space. to stack the guys and there was no space. for me. So um so we go I kind of see. something is not right here. So I go. with my with the security to the door, you know, place the church. going back. The guys go in but like there's no place. to me. So I like climb the wall is maybe.

like 6 7 ft tall. Uh we found a way. later to do something similar. I can. talk about it. But that that point was. like invisible. We can if we linger the. longer we linger the bigger chance that. they will be alert and you know somebody. gets killed. So yeah. So I just it's no. big deal. I mean, I knew the distance. was still safe for me. So, I got on my. knees, I put the gun in front of my. face, I cooled up and blast the charge. and uh so yeah, it stirred me a little.

bit, but uh you know uh like I described. it in the book, but it's not maybe as. dramatic as it is in the book. I did. have my nose a little bit bleed, my ear. did, but uh was not like I was gushing. blood or anything. It was just I was a. little bit stoned, but not enough not to. uh participate in the assault. So I. still catch up on the on the train uh on. the back of the train and uh we did. assault we got we took the target down. we got the guy. So yeah that was uh but. these things repeating over and over and.

over when you stay in cross close. proximity to the bridge it will affect. you eventually and at that time there. was very little known about this. Matter. of fact, when the eventually I became. instru CEL instructor in Bats, but I. still have this issue with reading, with. sleeping. So, I talked to our what what. do you do? You just go to your family. My family at that time was seals. I. didn't have another family. So, um we. say, "Hey, what happened? Do I have.

this? I wake up every two o'clock in the. morning and stuff." So, we're like, "Well, maybe you were drinking too. much." No, I was not drinking. And this. happens every day. 2:00 in the morning, I'm wide wide awake or maybe maybe this. So finally we agreed there was a ghost. that the apartment was haunted and. there's a ghost up there and the ghost. is waking me up. So that was a. conclusion. So then I realized that [ __ ]. I'm scared of ghosts. I need to find. different apartment because I don't want. to be scared sleeping at night that some. ghost comes here to scare the hell out. of me. So I didn't find an apartment. So.

finally I resigned myself to living with. the ghost which eventually turned out to. be a TBI the traumatic brain injury that. caused me react that way. So that tells. you how little we knew at the time. It's. not the case today. we know we are. acutely aware the danger and the the. damage that can those explosions cause. but at the time it's not was not that uh. the funny thing is that uh I think the. NSW came out to conclusion the biggest. damage occurs during the breaching.

course because people are exposed to. those breaching trans charges constantly. day in day out well that is just ba baby. walk next to what we did in Iraq where. you just have these things going. multiple times every night and it's not. just for like two weeks, three weeks or. for the month. You spend a year doing. it, eventually you start feeling it. So. that's what that's what happened to me. Now I don't complain. I would do it. again if I if I had to do it. But um at. least now we know what it is and we can. actually do something about.

it. I'm not the only one who suffer from. this. You talk to any breacher. I think. they even come with a term breacher. brain right now. That's something like. this. That's what they call it. But. again, um I don't complain. Uh this is. not complaint. It's just the fact maybe. somebody who suffers it can recognize. the symptoms and things and get himself. a help. That's uh that's what I'm. saying.

So after all your Iraq tours, you went. to Buds to be an instructor. Yes. Well, I had a slight my orders were to. breaching school to be instructor, but I. already knew that something was wrong. with me like any even shot shooting guns. next to my head cause like the headache. for a day. So, uh I asked if I could. change my orders, go somewhere where I. uh are not exposed and and the break. from the uh from the noise from.

explosions from the shock waves and uh. they said, "Well, why won't you try this. as BCL instructor?" I said, "Sure." But. then the problem was I already had my. orders cut. So I had to actually call I. went I went behind the back a little bit. and the the chief one of the chiefs he. passed away today. He was in Millington. He was became the detailer in. Millington. So I called him. I say look. this is what happened to me. This is. what I want to do. This one change and I. need your help. So within like a month I. got the change of orders and he called.

me say dude I got you. You're going to. bat. So that's how I end up in SE. training. How did you like your buds tour? Uh it was relaxing, you know. It was fun. to uh I kind of I miss the combat. I. miss the the that engagements in Iraq. that you don't have it here. But what. helped me get through this assignment.

was uh understanding that I might be. saving lives. I might be getting making. these people as good as possible. So. when they go to combat they they they. will be extremely effective. They will. be mentally prepared and those who could. not achieve that type of uh uh readiness. they will be removed from the serial. training. So I was pretty harsh but I. was very fair instructors uh from what I. was told by fellow students who today.

are very successful SEALs. Some of them. already retired from SEAL teams. But I. have a fond memory of the young guys uh. going through Bats. Matter of fact, it's. very I tell you this is very humbling. experience because the way when we go. through BS is most of at least for me it. was a blur. You just go do every day you. do something. You just try to survive a. day just to the next day from meal to. meal from hour to hour and it just goes. quick. You just it's like almost you.

walk in the room, you get a kick in the. balls few times then kicking the ass out. of the door and you don't. Well, now you. are the one who is. actually doing this to these kids, who. is demanding from these kids that. sacrifice, that pain. And uh it is very. um again very humbling because you see. these young kids and they don't quit. They just keep going. No matter what you. throw at them, some of them falter, some.

of them quit, some of them get injured. and being removed. Most of the people I. noticed in bars, they don't resign. They. don't quit. They get injured. They get. removed from the training. But uh seeing. these guys and you could not make them. quit no matter what. Some of them it. makes you think that yeah um America is. safe. When did you what year did you retire? I. retired 2011. So by this time I met my.

wife and uh how did you meet her? Well, that was a story too itself because uh. so I was in BS I didn't have a family at. the time and uh finally I came to. realizations like in the year and a half. I'm retiring I have no family so I have. to find me a wife so it was not that. easy because like you know with my. English my uh my uh the way I was I. guess I was not very attractive guy so I.

asked to my for my friends and uh Oh my. teammates and they say, "Okay, Dragon, the best way to do it is go online, you. find yourself a chick and if if you like. her, you're going to marry her." I said, "Sounds good. So, let's do it." And. so, I had incidents. I I mean, I had. those misfires what I would say. So. there was a girl I was courting for a. long time and eventually we agreed to. meet and then uh and we scheduled then.

like to meet first time in the coffee. shop like say for her place and it was a. lunchtime good god it was a place where. there was bunch of like. executive chicks were coming in like. very super nice place bunch of offices. around I didn't think much of it but. this girls who are look at the picture. was so beautiful I say I'm going to go. and pretend I'm smarter than I am. So I. took the book. I couldn't still read it, but I just pretend I was reading so I.

look smart. And then and she's coming. and and so the every girl those girls. are coming. I said this is end. So I. just try to get myself bigger, look. better. And then uh there's none of. these girls. Uh so I find like well it's. almost like 10 minutes late. Maybe she. won't show up. And then I I see the girl. walking, but she had to like walk. sideways through the door. So I said, "That's not that's not cannot be her.". So I just like sitting up there and just.

look at the book that I brought to make. myself look smarter. And all these nice. good-looking chicks are lined up next to. my table and she's coming and coming. I. see the big shadow comes up. It's like, "Are you. Thomas Drago?" It's like, "Yeah, how do. you know me?" I was like, "Who are you?". "I'm Wendy." Whatever the name was. We. talk about it. I was like, "Damn." And. all these chicks, I can see already the. smirk on their face. It's like, "Dude,

would you get yourself into it?" And and. then so I said, "Well, when you just. have have a seat, sit down." And I'm. thinking like, "Fuck." I mean, how do I. make it look like a business meeting so. these chicks are not laughing at me? And. so I say, "So Wendy, tell me, so talking. about your company, how many employees. do you have?" You know, "How many people. do you manage?" She says, "Look at me. like an idiot." It's like, "We're. supposed to have a date, not talk about.

my job." And so this guy just laughing. out loud. It's like, "Dude, do you just. So like, okay, all right, date. Okay, let's make it a date." And um so we. talked for a while and I I just wanted. to end this thing. It was so. humiliating. And then uh and she was so. loud, you know, and she was like, "Oh, it's so beautiful." I was like, "Damn, just just go.". And and and she so we we go back. I say,

"Can you give me a ride? I have a car on. the other side of the mall." And that. was in San Diego. I was like, "Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'll give you a ride." So we. go to my Jeep. My Jeep is not even the. lift. It's just like has big bit bigger. tires at the time and she cannot get. into the jeep. She's like trying to push. herself back but the doors are too. narrow for her. She tries to pull the. leg with her hands put in the jeep and. hopefully I can push her in it but that. didn't work. She almost fell down and I. was like I'm getting ready like what the.

hell I got myself into it. And then she. said well I just walk. I say yeah thank. you just go. and she left. She called me. and hey, it was a great date. You know, you do you want to meet again? Let's. have a date again. I was like, listen, Wendy, first of all, you misrepresent. yourself. We could be friends if you. didn't lie. You know, I I I don't mind. be friend with you if you were honest, but you send me all these pictures of. some other chicks pretending that this. is you and then you show up and look.

like a jab of the hat and that's not. you. who there and so and I don't want. to be rude to her but I had to tell her. I'm not interested in any dates with. her. So I told her that and. then you know as an instructors in. poolcom you remember we spend like. almost all day in the water testing. students. So we have students who are. broke dicks the the guys who have some. injuries. So they cater to us. So they. like if you have a phone call they say. instructor Drago you have a phone call.

here give me the phone. So you're still. in the pool. You eat in the pool. It's. like all day for these two days of pool. comp. And one of the guys say instead of. rag, we have a call a message here. I. say, "Okay, bring me the phone." So he. brings the phone. Look, I can see his. face like by this time I was dating. Rachel. already. So uh I will come back to it. how we met. And this So I'm looking I. see the. tit. So I was like, "What the hell is.

this?" So I call Rachel. I say Rachel, don't send your naked breast here. The. students are looking every time they. pick the phone. They see this. It's. like, whose sts are you having receiving. the messages from? Then I look and say, "Oh [ __ ] that's not the Rachel. That's. was. the So that was that fat chick uh. calling me about the uh trying to send. me the message." So I I uh I should say, "Call her, tell her don't delete her.". They told her not to call you again. So.

I call her, say, "Don't call me anymore. and don't don't send those naked. pictures of you." I say, "Oh yeah, I'm. so sorry. My boyfriend is right above. your name and I just by accident send. you my naked picture." I was like, "Yeah, right on, you know, just stop. lying. Just don't call me. anymore." So you I I had a problem like. this. So then when I met Rachel online, so I see this chick, I was like, "Holy. [ __ ] I'm in love with that one." So you. know I tried to wing to her she nothing.

w to her again nothing. So I told to the. guys who do I talk to I talk to my. family team guys sales what do I do what. how can I get her interested in me? So. one of the guys look at the profile. So. first of thing first of first thing get. yourself some few years off. So make. yourself like maybe 8 years younger. I. say okay 8 years younger. then uh write. her some nice letter. Well, I really. really can't can you help me? So this is.

how it started. So then I had the team. guys writing the love letters for me so. I can send it to her. She was writing. back to me and actually she like. actually the letters. So we continue. this way because with my English I am. proficient with it. I'm proficient in. combat but I'm not really proficient in. those loveydovey things that you know. like. um robots. Yeah. we are romancing. especially romancing online you know so. that's something that I had I turned to. my fellow teammates and uh and uh and so.

like she so wrote me a letter whoever I. could find say hey write me the response. write me some nice love letter so just. like type very quick something in and I. send it back and it continue it worked. so then uh eventually the guys got tired. so drag we don't use so many of these. love letters now you have you can make. any letter out of it just copy and. paste. So I say, "Okay, I'll try." I was. nervous. So I did that and uh her. profile disappeared from those American.

singles website. I remember still. So. her profile disappeared. It's like, "Oh, damn. I was already I was I was, you. know, writing the the emails. I well. team guys were writing the emails. I was. reading her emails." So there was kind. of like I was falling in love and then. um her profile disappeared. So I was. like uh car one of the guys and say hey. you know help me out with this. This is. the email I sent to her and I think. maybe she doesn't want to communicate. with me anymore. He just look at look at.

this. like yeah dude that's that that's [ __ ]. up. You can that I think this is why. So, you know, I was mopping for a few. days and uh I was still checking online. and she showed up again and I was like, "Shit, I just need to I need to I need. to talk to her. I need to tell her maybe. what that letter that I wrote because uh. uh because of my English." So, so she. needs to just I need to talk to her. So,

eventually. uh I coers her to call me and she called. me on the private lines. So, she. answered. So, we talked for a while and. say, "Hey, wait a minute. Oh, let me get. it straight. You are not on drugs. You're not drunk when you write to me. You just don't speak English. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. You know, that's it. So, we start talking on the. phone and that's eventually I asked her. to come and visit me in San Diego. She. did come and this is where I find out. Where was she? Was that where was she? She was living in Ohio in in Dayton.

where I was living. So I flew her to San. Diego and it was funny story actually. because after the bad experience with. these chicks that they were not who they. tell told tell me they are. I uh I asked. one a team guys said hey can you go with. me if this is another job they had if. this is another person that I'm not. really lied to me I need you to bail me. out. I will run and you tell her that I. was called for just some combat mission. in Iraq. Whatever. Just tell her.

something. So, so, so we both are. waiting and here she is going down the. escalator. He recognized actually her. first and dude is that chick. I said, "Yeah, did you just rob the cradle, dude? She's she's decades younger than. you are. How did you pull it off?" I. said, "Well, you wrote the love letters. and now you lie about my age at the. work." So, this here we go. say, "Okay, Drago, you got it. You're on your own.

She's hot." And and he just left. And I. was I remember so nervous because, you. know, I had all this with my emails. When I just wrote the email, I was. really like not up to speed, up to her. standards. Now, I was supposed to go and. talk to her in person. I was very. nervous. So, when she came out, I was. like to be like super gentleman. I just. like very stiff and say, "Hi, Rachel. I. am Drago." And uh uh she just look at me.

say, "Yeah, cool. But you know, I didn't. fly 2,000 miles to shake your hand. Give. me a hug." I was like, "Holy shit." So I. give her the big drago hug. And then I. remember so we start talking, you know, but she like step back say, "Wait a. minute. I think I know you." It's like, you know, for team guys to meet the girl. who you don't recognize and she says you. she knows you. The my first thing. through my mind was what did I do to her. when but they say yeah you know what.

when you were in the habs training you. are the new guy in your platoon with. your group of guys uh you and the haps. training and uh this is where I met you. first time I remember you for your. accent and the belligerance I say. belligerance yeah because you know like. in the habs training we we haps training. is the high uh you know what it is right. there the chamber ride when they ride to. like 20,000 ft uh the the air pressure. and then so you can recognize if uh uh.

if you have a problem let's say if your. if equipment malfunctions in the real. life in airplane you can recognize. because you learn in the chamber what. your symptoms are how you will react. then you have few seconds actually to. remedy the the situation or step away. from the ramp in the airplane and um so. that's we're sitting there. and they took us Rachel was in the. chamber actually and uh when they asked. who wants to be volunteer to demonstrate. the hypoxia I mean the the lack of.

oxygen so like every other I was a new. guy like that guy right there it's like. okay so they told me they drove us like. to 25,000 ft I took my mask and then I. had to do those toys you know like throw. the square peg into square Mhm. uh in. the ball square I get things they sign. my name and stuff and these guys start. egging me say yeah we can blah blah blah. and I got mad and I was like I was. threatening to kill everybody of them in.

the chamber but I'm going to kill you. I'm going to do this and this and this. and and then uh you know I passed out so. they just put the oxygen mask on me very. quick and and other guys were on the. mask so I don't know who was saying this. but they just saying you know Drago you. know you're going to pass out you're. going to do this you know I was getting. mad. And uh so when I came. to that crew in that center, they were. they were excited. They were like, "Dude, this is awesome." Well, we have. example of almost every symptom of the.

of that uh hypoxia, right? Hipp hypoxia. Hypoxia. Yeah. But we never had the. belligerance. Now we just recorded your. belligerance. So this is a great. educational video. So I'm floating. somewhere there being the in the as the. educ. educational aid to show people what the. belligerance look like. So she remember. me from that. She reminded it. And then. we walked to the car. I was very. nervous. I couldn't talk to hardly could.

talk to her from the being scared. And. uh so but I had a flower I had a flower. in my jeep because I say if the jaba the. hat shows up I will run and I'll just. give the flower throw it away. But uh in. this case, I was so nervous. So I. grabbed this flower. I say, "Hey, and. this is for you." It was like a gray. paper wrapped up. And I just I was so. nervous. I I did not wrap it. I still. have it upside down. Just give it to. her. Say here. She just looked at me. What's this? I was like, "Flower." So.

she took this like, "Okay, hold on a. second. Hold on a. second." She told me to wait. She. unwrapped it, throw the paper thing, flip it upside down. He grabbed she. grabbed my hand. She said, "Okay, try it. again." I was like, "Okay, here." So, that was my my first I tell you know, I. was more scared at the time that I was. before the assault, before the entering. on on target because that was so unusual. for me. That was so foreign and scary.

Uh but so yeah, that was that was like. pretty scary experience. But that's how. I met my wife and then uh we started. dating uh each other. She was coming to. visit me. I was coming to visit uh uh to. visit her and u eventually yeah we got. married and uh we have um I I consider. myself fully domesticated. Now that is. what she but if you ask her she say well.

yeah but I'm still the project under. construction. and I'm still being. domesticated and make so she's making me. better person uh every time. So yeah, that's that's how it work. But I still. have my pitfalls with uh with English, you know, it seems like, you know, so 40. years, but things that I sometimes say. or the way I pronounce things still get. me in trouble sometimes. So I remember I. asked her sometimes one time that to. feed me a. dessert. I said, "Well, what would you.

like for dessert?" I said, "No, I want. to eat. Kimberly." I was like, I see the like. terror in her eyes. Like, who is. Kimberly? I say, "Who is Kimberly?" You. know the desert we had like in the. restaurant two days ago or so? Like, you. mean Kimberly? It's like, "Yeah, that's. what I said." No, you say Kimberly. You. don't eat Kimberly. So, so you know, I. still get that [ __ ] Um I'm better now. but uh she's still working on me. She.

still I'm the project under. construction. So now we have you know. two kids together 15 years 16 years old. or beautiful girl very smart and I I. cannot be she I could not beat her in. chess game since she was I think 8 years. old. I still can't I think she's the. only person who checkmate me in like. maybe five or six moves. So I I'm not. bad player but I cannot beat this girl. And I have a son. He's doing gymnastics.

He's 15 years old. So and we have uh. also from our previous marriages the. oldest son Adam my oldest son he lives. in Tennessee. He's running his own. detailing business. My other son Blake. is uh actually a student. He was Marine. He spent one year in. Afghanistan. He's working now. He's. studying electrical engineering in Ohio. University and I have a younger son too. who is still active duty uh coast guard.

So I'm very proud of my kids. How long. have you been married? Oh that's dangerous question. Now you. got me in trouble because now uh she's. down there listening. Yeah, she's down. there listen and she she listen the. podcast then I get myself in trouble. Those are the the most that kind of. dangerous questions for me. But I think. since 20 since 2007. So we got married. in August 18. A kind of funny story. because August 18 is the presumed date. when battle of Thermopil thermopula.

started when 300 Spartans with 5,000. other Greeks defend the the Greece. against 250,000 Persians. So that's the. this presumed date when the battle. started. And there's my date of when we. got married. And then the place we got. married is loan. That's like the name of. the Spartan king. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. Oh, also the when uh when we got engaged. was another story too. because I'm I'm kind of troubled. I'm.

kind of like a I'm not very big into. this nice nice things because I don't. know how to do these things. So I ask. the guys, what would you do? How can I. how where the best engagement? Dude, you. need to go to Cancun. you need to go. there, get the restaurant, get make it. big. I said, "Dude, I don't have the. money for that. I just have barely money. to buy the ring." So, I was thinking, I. say, "What I'm going to do is I'm going. to invite her on the range to Ni Island. and let her shoot every gun that we. have." And the last gun,

M48 will be uh Mark 48 will be when she. opened the tray, there's going to be a. ring hanging down and there's going to. be a piece of paper like marry me. So. there I. myself see way to get getting girl for. to marry. So I brought her to Ireland. She had no idea. And then we had to. prepare the range. So with the guys, we. I put her in the room. I'm I'm still.

amazed that she didn't complain or. anything. There was one old shooting. magazine. There was nothing there, you. know, like an island up there. There's. really no place to leave. And she's. sitting in this room while we are. setting up the guns like M4, you know, and this and this and this. Almost every. gun that we had, every type of gun we. had inventory, we sign up line up. online. Then I brought her in, you know, just I have actually video of it. I'm. going to post it on my website one day. So, she goes from to gun to gun and. shoots and actually she should she the.

M4 she pretty good, you know. There was. like all on target. My heart skipped a. bit skipped the beat. And uh so we go. from gun to gun and the last gun when. she opened the tray I'm like next to her. and she sees the ring and then uh this. piece of paper say you marry me and I. was right there. I said would you marry. me? And she say. yes. Beautiful. Yep. So there was the. seal way to get married. and I got away know like I didn't have.

the money so it turned out to be not. very expensive way but was very. memorable way was very memorable for. her. So yeah. So you remember 2007. So. that's what 2007 2017 and 18 years. Yeah. 18 years. Yeah. Congratulations. It went so fast. It went so so fast, you. know. It's just the time goes by and. here I'm running and gunning kicking. doors in and suddenly here I'm I'm being.

married, taking care of the kids and uh. enjoying my American dream. So what's. your su what's your secret to a. successful marriage? to successful. marriage. I think uh understanding and. being uh reasonable and being loving and. being uh uh accept that she's another. human being that needs respect as well. and uh we just enjoy our lives together.

You know, this is something that the. longer it takes, the the better it is. seems like we are we fought tooth to the. nail at the beginning and now we just we. really don't we have a we mesh so well. together that um you know I think that's. a. love so yeah that's that's that's pretty. much my story again I'm telling. it I'm telling this because I want. people to see the beautiful America the.

the America greatness, how unique. country it is, how powerful it is. And. sometimes it is hard to see if you sit. in the trenches, if you are part of it. But when you have a chance to step. aside, take a different vantage point, you can see how beautiful country we. have. Yeah, that's some positivity we don't. hear very often here. Yes. You know there's another practice. that u I I I live as a free man I can.

live as a free man only. because the founding fathers because the. ideals the founding fathers were. fighting for and the ideals that were. have been carried to this day by. American people by Americans like you. like other Americans. Thank you. I. saw that. Did you do an Ibegan. treatment? Yes, I did. Uh I've done it.

But you know like some people say how. great experience they had. For me it was. not it was really nightmare. I didn't. meet like some people I didn't meet. Jesus. I met I met demons and it really. scared the hell out of me. But yeah that. but also changed me. I remember after. this treatment I call my wife and I say. well because she always say like she. doesn't like when I'm being called Drago.

said Drago is gone you know that's you. are Thomas and uh she did say like that. we're going to like Drago in the cage. and you are Thomas from now on sure my. wife you know she's the boss whatever. you say and but then I called her from. the after the abain treatment I was. coming back I say look I buried Drago in. the desert you know in the apple gain. there Thomas is coming back did you get. any benefits out of that with the I stop. drinking immediately and there's another. thing too it's it's difficult sometimes.

to admit I think even more difficult is. to notice that uh that you are you can. be alcoholic and for me it was like I. had to drink but I didn't feel like I. had to I like this such a cool things. have a few shots here you know few shots. there and I can stop anytime I Don't. stop it today. I'll stop it tomorrow. But tomorrow say, "Well, you know what? Just I a couple more shots and I'll be. fine. I'll just stop it tomorrow." I can. stop it. It's very easy. I just told. myself, "I'm not drinking." And it.

continues. And I couldn't stop. So, I. came back without drinking. I don't. drink. I don't have to drink. Now, I can. have a glass of wine with my wife if I. need to. But there's nothing that. compels me to drink. I start sleeping. better. and also the peace that came in. with uh um I would say the acceptance of. who you are where where you are and uh. also but that's not just the abain I. think that faith and god plays big role.

in the in my life right now and this. only thanks to Rachel to my. wife so yeah. did your faith strengthen after the. ivagain Yes, definitely. Yes. And you. know this maybe I don't know I don't. think she gets mad if I tell but we we. read books like on faith every night. before we go to sleep. So sometimes most. of the time she's reading and uh.

sometimes I because of my English let me. try to read this but mostly she's. reading and you know it's so peaceful. that she's like why are you not. listening? You are falling asleep. because you know when I snuggle up she. start reading. It's like hey you know. what I'm I'm just like fading away but. yeah so yes definitely yes and the faith. plays big role in our life and I think. this is also another reason why my. marriage is so successful uh there are. two things actually the faith that we.

both share and her emotional. intelligence that's something that. um how to say the right way she knows. like if I am angry obvious there's. some emotions online she can uh disarm. me. So this is something uh that uh you. know is is great. I mean I love the life. but uh I think we together work as a. team greatly and that's there I credit.

the abain treatment with uh in big part. for what happened there and uh I think. it's important that we pursue it because. as a veteran I know that different. people react to different things that. the the the different things will help. me may not help you or may not help. somebody else. This is why we cannot. restrict people to only one cookie. cutter treatment if you have let's say.

TBI or PTSD or whatever that this is. what we're going to do to you and my it. might turn out when I witness that that. things didn't work for some guys but. they found relief and and help doing. different things. So we the abogane I. think is important that we uh we. continue with it and try to allow or. bring. it allow people. to to get this treatment in the United. States so they don't have to travel to.

Mexico like I did to or to other places. Yeah. Yeah. I hope that happens. We. um we have the secretary of the VA. coming on soon and that's a big. discussion I'm gonna have with him. Nice. We need that I think because it is. it is very powerful. and I was very skeptical initially from. it. Friend of mine another team guy. called me say Drago I need to tell you. something and the guy is just as a.

knuckle dragger as somebody can be that. you don't want to fight this guy. You. don't want to this this guy is just a. badass dude. He calls me and say. Drago I need to tell you I met Jesus. I. was like, "What?" I I I talked to Jesus, man. I was like, "Rachel, get Navy Seals. fund ready. I think we have another. going out of rails, you know, we I think. that we have a guy and we need he will. need help." And then I talked to him and.

that changed my life too. So, um, he he. we talked for quite some time and, uh, he explained me what it was. I didn't. know anything about Abuane at the time. and or Aayawaska and um. eventually another friend of my rest in. the piece Dan Cerillo taco he called me. and said uh like how did he say it he. said like Drago you need to go I mean if. you don't go I'm going to kidnap you you.

need to go to this treatment and you are. coming with me so he took his time from. his work from his family just to help me. get to Mexico and get this treatment. So, yeah, I owe him a lot too, man. He. was a good friend of mine. H He was a. good friend of mine. Yes, he was. uh for a while there he was my only. friend here and then. uh and then he died of a heart attack on. the range. Very young age with his son.

Yeah. But um on a hunting trip. On a. hunting trip. Yeah. He was doing things. for other people. Yeah. When he died. a. awesome human. Yes. And uh I just I. never served with him but uh I did and. it was that was a warrior as true. warrior. Yeah. Yeah. I miss him. Yeah. Me too. I miss. him too. Miss many guys, you know. There's something that.

um I think we we ask. for you know it's almost like a survival. guilt you know like why why why I. survive why why me not him why why he he. got why he was killed not me we ask. those questions and I think we always. ask until we die you know but uh that's. the faith you know that's how the life. goes. He was a big part of me finding my.

faith. Yes, he was. I had a uh he helped. many guys. Yeah, he's a great guy, man. And uh but this is about the teams. you. know what people don't understand and. and I I watch some of the programs some. podcasts do with fellow team guys and. this always ends up pretty heavy you. know but people so people tend to forget. that. u we are normal people you know we just.

do our job sometimes you know that's the. way I look at ourselves is like we we. are not sheep dogs that other people had. capable of doing it. We are wolves and. we hunt wolves. Sometimes. nations need monsters to fight other. monsters because this is the only way we. can fight those monsters. So I think. sometimes we have to become those. monsters to protect our society, right?

So that's that's the way I look at it. And. um yeah. that's. sometimes that's life you know and uh we. all knew what we are getting into. getting in SEAL teams with those uh we. we and we all were ready to do what. needs to be done to protect our citizens. to protect. America and I'm proud of it. Well I'm. proud to know you man. I think that's um.

I think that's the perfect way to end. this. And I just want to say Thomas, it. was a honor to interview you and just. get to know you and uh like I said, I've. I've just heard so much about you and. and um your reputation speaks for itself. and so I just it's it's um I'm really. thankful we met. So, thank you so much. But I'm just a product of Seal Teams. I. always wanted to be like you guys. I. wanted us to keep up with you guys. So.

I'm nothing special. I'm not different. than you. I'm not different than anybody. else. So I'm just one of the com the. community members. I'm one of the SEALs, former retired SEALs now. But we are all. the same. We are from the same cloth and. we did the same job. So uh it was honor. to be here. I thank you for the. invitation. But it gave me also the. opportunity to uh uh uh. maybe make people pause and look at. America from different vantage point.

Look at how great America is. and is worth protecting. All right, Drago, you got an update on. the judge that prosecuted you in Poland. Yeah, I was sentenced to three years of. prison time. And what happened at the time there was. nothing unusual because th those so-cal. activist judges they work for the party.

They didn't openly work for the party. but they were uh uh they did what the. political party told them to do. They. were just doing their bidding in the. society. And um so I was not the only. one. There was like thousands of people. sentenced by these activists judges to. prison time. Some of them were sentenced. to death especially uh people coming. back from the second world war who were. who experienced the western freedom who. exper experienced the western way of.

life the communists in Poland didn't. like my father they did not want these. people there so from the from the very. beginning they were finding cases to. murder them to kill them to put them in. prison the. the for example the the the top scoring. ace of Polish air force fighting in. battle of Britain. He was arrested very. quickly after he returned to Poland and. sentenced to death. The his death.

sentence was committed to life in. prison. Then I think he was let go after. 10 years in prison time of prison 10 or. 15 years in prison. No, I don't remember how many years but. he spent few years in prison and on the. death row too. He was lucky because many. of those people were executed very often. just outside the prison cell with the. shot in the back of his neck. So that's. what happened and those are so these. activist judges you would never think.

you would never think that something. will ever happen to them. They were the. masters of life and death for so many. polls. But the 2024 I got a call to if I. could come to Warso and testify in the. case of one of such judges. It happened. to be the same judge who sentenced also. me to present time. So yes, I did. Absolutely. Yeah. So me and Rachel flew. to. Warso and uh the guy uh the judge was.

charged with communist crimes, crimes. against humanity, crimes against Polish. nation and uh uh judicial terror, judicial terrorism. That's what they. did. Those activist judges. So you it. was surreal but also like bittersweet. because u when I walk in with my wife in. this courtroom you know I I had my. American flag and there was like you.

can't do anything to me anymore but it's. not Poland is different now. Poland is. very. um how to say law. They're law abiding. citizens. They go by the law, but they. want to protect themselves from. totalitarian systems like communism, socialism, Nazism. They don't polls. don't want it there. They experience it. already. So uh there is actually in. constitution Polish constitution I.

believe I forgot which point it is that. prohibits. uh promotion of. totalitarian ideologies in Poland you. can't do it. So yeah, so I went to Warso. and I testify against this judge. although you know this guy I don't know. what age he's now maybe like 80 years. old and it is it was 40 years ago. So I. would never cross it would never cross. my mind that judge who was sentencing me. to prison time he will be prosecuted for.

judicial terror and he will be I will be. testifying in his case. uh that also I. learned that I was tortured like you. know the beatings in prison and beatings. from the police. I never considered a. torture. I thought it just normal. This. is this is how things works. You know. you get caught that would be beating you. up but never but now when testifying. that that was classified actually as a. torture. So that's something else that I. I down on me when I went like year ago.

when I went year ago to Warso. So I. asked uh also uh I testified uh in the. court. My wife was there too, Rachel. And u she was very proud of me. We both. had the American flags, you know, sitting in this corner co court. courtroom. Uh but I asked for uh not. putting this guy in prison. Uh I appear. I I um I I. I asked the judge to you know no matter.

what they going to do there's no need to. put 80 years man in prison. He asked me. if I have some against this guy still if. I have some uh some feelings and some uh. some uh anger against this guy. Uh and I. say no you know we we I 40 years in. America changed me. You know I am. different person than I used to be when. I was when I came to America. So you. know forgiving I think I learned too uh.

in America you know if you can't forgive. somebody you leave that hate or you. leave that uh that part it become part. of your life destroying your life. We. just uh you know like following the god. uh Jesus teachings you know you need to. forget you may disagree you may not you. with with the sinner uh with you but you. don't condemn the sinner you condemn the. sin and that's what I ask you know.

condemn his uh uh what he did but as a. human being you know in his age really. there is no uh I think there will be. there is no affforation him. So we. there's no need to put him in prison. So. I don't know what what happened and I. didn't follow up on it. I'm just like. for me it's just. like I I learned how to forgive and. that's America changed me. A lot of. people need to learn how to forgive.

We know if you don't you you that that. that things goes with you wherever you. go. You don't leave as a free good man. Good man being free. You have this thing. on the on your shoulder. So if we can. learn how to forget, how to forgive, not. forget, but how to forgive. I think we. are better people. America made me a. better person. When you forgive, you. free yourself. Yeah. You know, you also.

you asked me about the what I feel when. I kill the guy. Oh, by the way, I was. thinking about it, too. This I get so. mixed up. The first guy that I killed. was the guy in the car who following us. He was just he just pulled from behind. the corner. I was in the last car. It. was so fast. Then as he was coming at. the, you know, like car 50. I was on I. think I was on 50. So I was on the last. car. He pulled out next to me. He was. coming to our right. And I see with the.

under the with the flashlight, I mean. with the lights that we have, but also. the street lights. There's a guy on the. right seat with the AK sitting with AK. So it was like surreal. It's like what. is he thinking? I mean we we just we we. can just obliterate these guys. But. anyway, so he started pulling in. Um the. my concern was that if he has uh if this. ID VB ID, we could all get hurt. So I.

didn't think much. She was it was almost. so close. I just pulled the pistol. I. killed the guy in the on the right seat. with the gun and I shot the driver. So. they went to uh they hit the the the. light pole. Uh the kind of funny things. is like so we're driver didn't think. much of it. I said, "Okay, guy's gone.". And um I got a call from the front from. the OIC say, "Hey, do I hear some shots. being fired? What's going on guys? Everything is okay?" I say, "Yeah, I. just stopped the guy. He was just coming. uh he was he was coming on us." So I.

stopped the car. He say, "Oh, okay. No. problem. No question asked because we. are actually driving I think from No, we. were driving to the mission. So yeah, we. didn't want any interruption. Say, oh. yeah, let's see what happened to this. guy. There's no time for it. You just. take care of the business and move on. So yeah, but uh the thing is what you. asked me earlier too. I was thinking. about it about that the feelings of it. I was never like a feely guy. For me. there was no I say like I didn't feel. anything. I I didn't because I I was.

thinking about it. I I see myself more. as a like a technical person. So for me. the the dwelling on it was more like. what could I do better? How could I kill. him better, more efficient way? Not. like, oh my god, he's dead now. That, you know, I I I was my priority was. always life of American citizens. Uh the. well-being of America, any foreign. entity has no value to me in in in has.

say no value. Um. I understand it comes second you know. like I'm not so eloquent but but yeah. the the the American life will come. before any foreign life number one. priority is number one priority America. and American citizens. Well, Drago, thank you again for coming back and and. setting that record straight and being. open and vulnerable and. and you know, at a lack for a better.

words or better at a lack for better. words, you know, setting humility aside. for the for the full story. I just I. really appreciate it. Yeah, it was kind. of difficult. Again, like I said, we're. talking about this often and people. watch all these movies. They stop seeing. us as human beings. They see us more. like the just part of that machine that. if you just broke and something happens, just bring another one. You you people. some people almost expect you to be hurt.

and replace with somebody else. So. that's something that maybe I don't like. people to see. This is why like I don't. wear the trident. I was mentioned about. it earlier. I wear American flag because. American flag encompasses the trident. and everything that is good. And I want. when people see me to think about me as. American, not the Navy Seals. I'm no. longer Navy Seal. Now, of course, uh you. know, I lived that life for 20 years. I. loved it. But now I am just American.

There's no hyphen in front of this. American. Thank you. Thank you. [Music]. No matter where you're watching Shawn. Ryan Show from, if you get anything out. of this, please like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share. this everywhere you possibly can. And if. you're feeling extra generous, please.

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