Shawn Ryan Show #002 Former Navy SEAL/BUDS Instructor Travis Kennedy

so you're going out every day beginning a gun fight outside of your fob then you. come home and then you got a deal with the base getting hit how many. engagements would you say you were part of in that eight months do you have any.

idea I lost count who's that many just put that in perspective for it because. most guys don't think about this that's a hundred and eighty fucking engagements. their very first up the helo crashed oh shit killed everybody. one guy survived I want to take a call I have your dad on the line Jim hey Jim. how's it going this is John Ryan I kind of just in the background my on hope. that you understood or at least somewhat understood when I was out to do every.

night right would sundown these dudes are just smash us with small arms and. they would be effective a lot of times when you lose guys in a combat zone and. you know them it'll create a type of ritual did I do anything I'm gonna take. another call we got a mutual friend on the line that was there or that whole.

second deployment with you Jeffrey and there's a picture of you and Jeff and. another guy's face it's blurred out hell yeah I do. welcome back to the Shawn Ryan show I hope everybody had a good Christmas good.

holiday a good New Year we released our first episode on midnight on Christmas. Eve out of 800,000 podcasts and an estimated 30 million episodes we ranked. number 73 on the top charts overall right off the bat thanks to you guys for. heading over to iTunes listening subscribing and most importantly leaving.

us a review if you get a chance and you haven't done it yet please go over to. iTunes leave us a review even if it's only one word that's all I'm asking for. doin ease with that being said I'm ready to kick off episode zero zero two we. have a thirteen year combat veteran Navy SEAL with multiple combat deployments he. was a buds instructor this one really strums the heartstrings we get deep it.

gets emotional guys this is better than entertainment this is the real thing. please welcome mr. Travis Kennedy.

all right Travis I've been dying to meet you. finally here in Tennessee or in my studio I can't fucking wait to get. started Jeffery to introduced us what a couple months back over the phone and. anybody that's a friend of that guy is a friend of mine and I just want to say. it's a real pleasure to finally meet you and and to have you on the show. Thank You Man yeah it's been a long time coming for sure true pleasure to even be.

sitting right here and spending the weekend with you yeah yeah that's this. is awesome I want to dive right in here and I'm gonna give you a tough question. right now the hot topic on the news is Iran we just killed soleimani and. without going too far in depth into your background yet you're a team guy you're. a seal you're an operator you've been on multiple bases maybe embassies fobs but.

you've been on government facilities in combat zones that have been hit numerous. times I want to hear your take on our president's decision to fire up that. drone strike and take out sulemani yeah it's been a definitely controversial. topic at least from what I've seen lately however my opinion is that these.

decisions aren't made rationally they're not made hasty they're very strategic. and thought-out especially with a guy like from soleimani this is someone. that's been on our list for a very long time so the president had to make a. difficult decision but a decision that in my opinion needed to be done and at. the end of the day we're getting rid of a terrorist that has been responsible. for hundreds of thousands of deaths you know Iraqis in American lives so.

we're doing the world a favor by getting rid of this guy yeah we may be there is. always risk on the tape and these decisions are made every. single day some don't even come to the spotlight but all these risks are. weighed that are not just made blindly so yeah I mean as a guy that's 13-year. Navy SEAL multiple combat deployments well over a hundred engagements fighting.

off terrorists that are trying to kill you. I mean what what does it like to hear people say that they're upset that we. killed a guy who's responsible for thousands of US lives and you know and. and they don't support it they don't they don't think that we should have. retaliated and me personally I had friends that died in Benghazi and we saw.

what the fuck happened when we don't do anything when we don't send help and. when we don't you know stand up for our guys that are over there fighting for. the fucking freedom that these Americans have at home that's really honestly. truly mind-blowing I try to ignore stuff like that I'm all these people online. but it's hard to miss especially with this it's the reaction of people getting.

mad because he may stoke another war another conflict with a trip with Iran. we've already been in conflict with Iran for a very long time we'll still. continue to be we have no good relations with them they're not a friendly country. whatsoever but so but just one instant because it's been blowing up so much and. almost like him because he's such a high-level guy that people want to go. high and right knee-jerk reaction and think you know this was so horrible that.

he was gonna cause a war possibly but I think people just need to understand to. educate themselves and why these decisions are made because this isn't. like these are made all the time yeah and they just don't people don't know. about it yeah but I just hate I hate seeing online I hate seeing people going. uproar or stuff like this yeah I think you know. it seems like you know you'd never hear anybody who actually did anything for.

the country speaking out against things like this it's always the people that. are sitting on their fucking ass back in the rear enjoying the freedom that we. fucking give them and you know maybe those people should just shut the fuck. up and enjoy what they have exactly oh but all right enough about politics I. hate them I get past every time I talk about them but I want to dive right into. your childhood and you know kind of where you grew up and and how you grew.

up and and eventually what led you to become one of the world's most elite. operators as a Navy SEAL so where did you grow up so growing up Southern. California grew up with city called Huntington Beach it's a beach town. living in California I mean I was just a punk kid growing up a skateboarder just. doing shenanigans at a younger age bouncing back and forth between mom and.

dad they were divorce typical you know broken home sharing time when did they. get divorced I don't remember I was an infant I mean I was so young I can't. remember when they were divorced I can't remember when they're married it was. that long ago okay so you never I've never I've never experienced living at. least from what I did but at one point when I was a baby but even remembering. living with them in the same household married so I grew up like that it was a.

normal that wasn't normal for me but so going back and forth between mom and dad. growing up was normal there's a pain in the ass I actually like spending more. time with my mom that I did my dad when I was younger. really and I have no idea why even looking back I was just I like to call. myself an idiot because now my dad had like we're mom and dad are super close. with me my dad is super tight but I think it was because at the time my mom.

was dating someone who had a son who's a little bit older than me and we're like. brothers okay did everything together always hung. out were skateboarding always fucking off so naturally I was inclined just to. want him to be there all the time so. never wanted to go to my dad's I did but not often without bitching that's. surprising me because I'd research in you on social media and listening to.

your previous podcast I can tell that your guru and your father are extremely. tight my question is if you were so tight with your mom what is the thing. that kind of drew you closer to your father as I got older yeah I think as I. matured more I just kind of realized that he was my father you know as a. father figure and I just wanted to be around him more you know I was like.

probably around 14 13 14 I wanted to spend more time with him and we became. closer because my mom was just dating this guy they end up separating so that. older his son we all like parted ways so that kind of got broken up so then I was. kind of left with without him and then I just kind of leaned towards can.

naturally just went towards my dad okay and we became tight lot tighter I spent. a lot more time with them especially when I was in MIT once I hit middle. school and then going into high school but still the same things still sharing. time throughout the whole process what were you like as a kid were you we like. a nerd we're studying making good grades or were you a Hellion out yeah. terrorizing the town growing up always like a punk kid younger like middle.

school just a punk skateboarder just doing shenanigans fucking around I was I. was a mediocre student and elementary mid school middle school junior high. probably just mediocre I didn't really try that part in school. I was more focused on fishing when I was younger just fucking off and then. towards the end of I would say middle school zone in high school and then I. started I started tightening up I was never really a overachiever in school as.

far as grades are concerned but I got into sports and that kind of changed my. mentality and it wasn't really until I got in high school and started playing. like lacrosse and started and a couple of sports that I really started maturing. okay seeing what the next move was in life you know I heard on some of your. other podcasts as well they assumed that you were from a great family it sounded.

like and I think I heard one say like you know oh you know a lot of guys that. go into Special Operations or even the military from broken families and you. didn't say a fucking word they just breezed right over it and my. wife actually picked up on that first and so you're not from a picture-perfect. family and Huntington Beach California everybody thinks you had some shit yeah.

most people think and it's fine that people from SoCal or especially those. beach cities because they are wealthy cities you know born with the silver. spoon in my mouth yeah got everything I had perfect family everything all shit. together far from it we were good but definitely. not normal family broken home that but that was normal for me so I was used to. it mm-hmm maybe if it happened later in life it. probably had more of a profound effect on me but being that it was and I was.

such a young age but not even realize that was just normal. yeah I was just so used to it that didn't really have a net really too much. of a negative effect I mean my parents being separated but yeah definitely we. were just lower middle class family I can just struggles my dad was struggling. and starting his own business poor but still providing you know my mom same. thing so definitely definitely not the tip.

what you think of a Southern California house for sure at what point did you. start to realize you wanted to become a Navy SEAL or join the military how old. were you I was about sixteen fifteen going on sixteen that I knew I wanted to. be in the military because in the beginning when I started weighing all. these options I knew I wanted to be military then I was really sat down like.

what I want to do I want to do something above the norm like I didn't want to. just join it be a grunt or just the regular sailor I was more focused on. Navy and I just wanted to join it just be on the ship and just do whatever job. I wanted to do something great I did at the time think about Naval Academy so I. was talking this time I was discussing my father what I should do at first he. wanted me to do college he knew it then he's like Navy you think about Naval. Academy I thought about fighter pilot that thought came in and out of my head.

pretty quickly I think it was more of this like the stigma it was like oh that. sounds great it sounds fun you know it sounds like a cool job but the whole. Naval Academy that just wasn't for me and I'll say now being officer was that. my personality so I'm glad I didn't do that but fucking cake eaters yeah that. would not that's not me then I've you know going on with seals.

my father was a big influence or major influencer for the seals you know he's. one and I heard this another podcast say he he's the one that brought the. information home for me because at the time there was minimal minimal. information online or whatsoever you know he brought home a pamphlet like. those little trifold pamphlets that had seals all little blips of information. not much but just like this is Navy SEALs and I was like holy shit you know.

like that was it especially him giving it to me that was more of a subconscious. thing for me like at the time I look back and like maybe that was you know. seeing him give me this like hey you need to be do something great yeah like. that set the tone that's pretty surprising. you don't hear that very often about their parents push their kid into. Special Operations I think that's cool but you just you don't hear that ever. yeah it's very surprising what did you know I mean when he gave me the pamphlet.

what that was or what that would entail I knew what they were but I didn't know. what it entail I mean I've heard of him but does vaguely I didn't know all that. it's like just a glimpse into that kind of pamphlet thing of what they're about. because at the time before that in research I mean I've heard of it I'm. like a little bit but that once I got that my hands that dope do you know a. deep dived into it you know I just became obsessed because even just.

looking at that getting it from him just and then reading it I knew that was in. me a good fit that was more my style who I was my personality where I would see I. would fit and do good and be successful and after that I was like that's it like. that's what I'm gonna do and the merit especially with the the water aspect to. that because I really that's why it drove me kind of Navy the maritime. aspect and that was like perfect it's like seals me perfect fit for me you.

like the water growing up I agree yeah I did do you like it now I. have a different relationship with it now I think a lot of guys have a. different relationship with that after takes me about ten minutes again you. signed up at 17 years old I mean you can't even legally do that by yourself. what was that like and and why didn't you just wait to race me yeah I mean for.

me yeah I knew my core that I want to do this so bad I was like I need to sign it. make this happen because that when I did that that even stoked the fire even more. because now I had that goal I already made that commitment and there was no. turning back in my mind you know but I was so set in that time because I lit I. enlisted this summer going into my senior year because I wanted to graduate. and go so you enlisted before your fucking.

senior year of high school yeah so I was already in in the Navy the. debt program throughout my senior year so I knew for a fact I was going I. didn't knew when I was leaving for boot camp like halfway through senior year. holy shit I left literally a month later after I graduate high school one month. later Wow so looking back now after all you've. been through did you do you think you had any idea of how big of a fucking. decision that was that you made it 17 years old to go and then this is post.

9/11 what yours is oh six oh six say hey post 9/11 so no I definitely I I knew I. was making a major commitment because I knew SEAL Special Forces like this is. big time this is but being at a young age like just knowing that it's a. minimal knowledge I knew about it I didn't know the magnitude I mean that. was way bigger I didn't really it didn't really come to life till actually got.

there well but I definitely knew I was making a life-changing decision a. difficult one hell of a childhood challenging one too but the magnitude. didn't really hit me until I actually got to buds and that's when reality. struck but I knew what I wanted to do that's why I joined so early because I. wanted to leave right away yeah I wanted I don't want buffer time. because I knew myself was like if I drag this out then this I'm gonna critic.

excuses or something yeah because my LOC typed my training like over a year out. when I enlisted I was like so 100% frontside focused you were locked on. logged on like one person trained you know that was my life and I gave a shit. about anything else like I played a little bit sports that helped me and. then trained and then was I think everybody I finished school passed. I wasn't exceptional because I was so all I care about what seals A's B's C's.

or below and your grades no ways I got like a beat couple B's C's and D Matt. wasn't a math student not a math guy now actually for they're. not decent math now but at the time I think because I I think I just didn't. put effort into it I don't know why what I the interest wasn't there was so. focused on something else yeah so how long after graduation did. you go to boot camp graduated in June of Oh sakes what the buds are excuse me.

boot camp in July month later camp went to boot camp in July graduated high. school in June so a month later I left for boot camp in July bo 6 and then. bootcamp is boot camp and then I went to core school at the boot camp oh shit. I joined July of o1 that's weird yeah 18th was the day I went there Wow. when you join you so you joined you had the seal contract or whatever they were.

calling it at that time and at that time did they have did they make you go. through in a school to fill the job of the Navy if you quit or did you go. straight to buds yeah they did I had to pick a rate out of passed the seal PSD. before I got to try out for buds probably even boot camp and then I had. to pick a rate and I pick him core school because at the time there was.

only an approved list it wasn't any job in the Navy they gave me a list like a 5. jobs like ordnance radar Corps school what I looked at it was like maybe I'll. just pick something that's practical you know that's gonna be useful in my life. medicine so you did that yeah I know it I had no idea like I would be interested. in it I just sound it's like ok medicine that sounds more useful than an AO or. something low is just ordnance on ships yeah so I picked that and that kind of.

paved the way. I will worry when he got the buds 19 19 19 so you did all this preparation from. age 16 you made that decision 17 Loctite yeah you get two buds did you think you. were prepared when he showed up I did were you prepared when you showed up I. thought it was I mean I'd everything up until that point I really thought I was.

did everything I can I had all the tools thought I knew everything I needed to. know about training and to be it physically mentally ready but once I. actually started buds I knew there was things that I wasn't ready for I mean it. wasn't gonna be a surprise yeah things you just can't train for. what was that like for you I mean you'd seen I'm I'm assuming you watched every.

damn piece of content you could get your hands on Discovery Channel History. Channel books whatever you could get your hands on and so you thought you. knew the whole process you saw it all on you know or what you thought you saw it. all and then you're there and you see the Bell and you see the grinder and you. see the instructors and you see the classes they're already classed up going. through hell week second phase third phase well what was that like when you.

showed up and you saw all that shit for real for the first time definitely. nerve-wracking it was a surreal experience. so I remember checking in I checked him in like handful other guys we walked in. the quarterdeck checked in and then they marched us through the grinder and there. was a class going on the grinder getting beat they're doing a PT and that was. definitely a surreal experience for me nervous as hell scared also very excited. too like I had all kinds of emotions in me.

yeah oh how to act just stoic face but internally I was because I was just like. this frail skinny 19 year old out of boot camp lost so much weight so I was. just like I looked probably so I look so damn young yeah and then. like I said prior to that point I thought I knew I was gonna get myself. into until I saw it I was like holy shit you know here it is yeah you see yeah. you see guys that are mid 20s early 30s yeah because I saw a first phase guys.

see like second third phase guys running around he's like browsers these dudes. got a long-haired look like you know more mature older like fuck you know. this is taken back yeah I should some of them have already been to combat and. back from other branches and decided they want to try out for a still yep and. you're a 19 year old pump kid from Huntington Beach California I mean did. you did that intimidating you seeing guys like that quit it didn't.

intimidating me I didn't really notice it at first I mean I didn't really pay. attention to people who quit I was just especially in the beginning there was. just so many of us that you wake up and there's the lost like 10 guys how many. did you start with we started around 140 I will you something like that and then. I and I'm graduating buds with 31 32 shit so that's they say it's like 85%.

attrition rate yeah and that's I mean well above that so that's a little. tougher glass glass hardest class yeah I hear that all the time too when you. showed up whether its selection or buds a lot of a lot of guys showing up to. those kind of training curriculums they have one evolution one famous evolution. in mind that they're scared shitless of like a lot of guys go to buds it's the.

you know the 50 meter underwater swim or selection is the land nav did you have. anything that you were really worried about me was the boats on heads I saw I. didn't know how I would until I point like I knew I had to do four mile run I. knew we had to do the swim I wasn't really sweating that I heard about the. 50 meter wasn't really sweating that but seeing watching the videos and somebody.

that I seen like the log tea and the guys sprinting with his boat. on their head and they're being right because that's in my opinion is still. the worst evolution in buds I mean it's definitely mentally and physically the. most taxing I'm running with that thing on your head especially when people. around you aren't holding their weight in the beginning when you're all. collectively holding holding your weight and it's manageable but when people. start slipping and it's brutal for me that was one of the most challenge in.

the beginning probably one of the most challenging things was was that as bad. as you thought it was gonna be the boats on heads was worse they're the worst. I don't even know I just saw it I didn't know how bad it was gonna be those are. things you can't prepare for like boats on heads rock climbing log Pte you know. those watching guys on the video it just doesn't really do it justice. yeah it's a little bit different watching somebody with a rubber boat on. their head you're like yeah you know how bad can it be.

and then your head's under that boat with a bunch of sand in between your. scalp and that boat with ways I don't know a couple hundred pounds full of. sand and water and then you know it takes your scalp with it and flushes. your neck yeah that's an eye-opener for sure the. thought of quitting ever crossed your mind don't never never once no and I can. honestly say that no never thought about it one time no shit definitely struggled.

through their buds on certain physical evolutions and challenged definitely a. lot but the thought of giving up now what did you struggle with running. running yeah running was my kryptonite as it progressed me getting it was okay. and then they got progressively a little worse and worse and then kind of set me. back did it did you get rolled back or second phase I got rolled back for runs.

oh shit how was that did that just crush your. mind yeah I was embarrassed for sure especially over runs. I just felt like what the fuck try was like over fucking runs this is what we. do you know I maybe I want to take taking a better if I like failed to pull. competency or something like that or dive because that's a difficult task but. a four-mile time run that I've been doing for the past eight weeks longer I.

thought I would I never would have saw myself failing runs because I failed one. before pool can't pass pool can't failed another one after pool con which is a. major milestone in the second phase and then and I'm getting rolled back into. another class but post pool comps I don't have to do that all over again for. you civilian type spool comp is a major hurdle in buds which is still training.

and basically long story short it's scuba diving you're with open-circuit. tanks and you have to go under and basically what happens is you get the. shit beat out of you and you can't breathe then you have to go through all. these procedures before you can resurface and get air did you have to do. that over again No thank God now that's thanks God that. was a that was a tough evolution yeah - I was probably one of the toughest I.

dated muds not the toughest but I've luckily got to be able to roll back post. that so I classed up with another class and then finished buds with that class. no more hang-ups no more hangups actually came back stronger and. healthier and I wasn't even roll back that long month month and a half ok so. not very long but I came back stronger healthier so I'm just focused on I.

trained I rehabbed my body because I just I still felt a little broken down -. after hell week first phase but so maybe that was a blessing disguise I don't. know but I was I was still ashamed to myself like I didn't want to fail and. then see my first my class passed me up which is a shitty feeling - so you. graduate buds you go to stt and then just doing the.

research I already know you became a medic you went to 18 Delta course. correct yeah and Fort Bragg that's a hard thing to do. because that's a long course and so the guys that you are in buzz with her. already at the team some of them are already going off to war and you're. still in the schoolhouse you know how was that that was definitely being a.

corpsman already right when I got my bird they just immediately pointed at me. like hey you're going to 18 Delta or Sock'em which is the Special Operations. combat medic the short course of the 18 Delta it's six months still very long. course and yeah I was kind of like taking back I was like okay you know not. really knowing what the hell that was really and so I was a little irritated. because I was eager to go to the team and start working and get out of the.

student kind of mindset and actually show up to the team started doing the. job and training with the other other team guys but I took it on the chin you. know so let's go and I went but we'll get into it but it was the best course. I've ever attended my entire career we really backtrack in just a second get.

through buds I mean I know how influential your dad was in your life. and he originally gave you that pamphlet which was the initial idea of you. becoming a Navy SEAL at the end of sq2 which is still qualification training. when you got your Trident how good did that feel knowing that your dad I mean. he must have been yeah incredible feeling I mean not only for me I know.

for him he was there so was the rest of my family he got to see he did yeah and. get pinned did yeah he was there it was really cool. to have him there and the rest of my family as well mom's sister. so that was unbelievable best feeling I ever had best feeling in my life. number one moment my life up to this point so and everything coming to.

fruition after all those kind of steps leading up to this point and now it's. actually coming true was great yeah I knew it was great for him too because. you know he'd just see the result that must have been really cool yeah so. you're at 18 Delta school you're a little bit pissed off because the boys. are at the team already you're in the school house an army schoolhouse. nonetheless which is always kind of a pain in the ass for to do the Cross.

thing with the with other branches and I know how frustrating that most of them. but looking back now now that you know the medic is probably the most important. job on the team would you have changed anything no no like I said it's I became. passionate about medicine like that's where I fell in love with it there at. the squad and even after chorus school I didn't know shit about it I mean they. just teach you bare bones and then actually deep dive into this course I.

developed a love for and a passion for it and I enjoyed every minute of it yeah. definitely do not regret it because it paid dividends throughout my entire. career everywhere you go need a medic every op you need a medic and there I. was a guy that's medic because there's not many medics and far a few between. the platoons because no one wants to go because it's too long too hard but being.

at Bragg where the schoolhouse has located an army base massive and it's. Joint Command so a bunch of different units majority army but there's a bunch. Navy guys definitely stood out and we're under the microscope for sure mm-hmm. and it was really important to me to perform because I didn't want to be I've. heard horror stories at that point like I don't want to be the team guy showing. up to the platoon saying he failed 18 Delta. there's been a straight-up turd that's the first impression I don't want to be. that guy they were expecting you to be a medic and show up here and as soon as.

you do that you're screwing over the platoon yeah absolutely. and you know you just look bad as a seal it has a man so I definitely didn't want. that I wanted to crush it how did you do in that course I mean that's a probably. that's got to be one of the most academically challenging courses in the.

military going through 18 Delta I mean it's I mean it's so much information. condensed into what six seven months yeah yeah it was the most challenging. course academically end up surprising myself I'm graduating that course is an. honor man in my class oh shit which I kind of blew my owns myself away. doing that because I never graduated honor man anything for that yeah but.

after graduating that class finished honor man because leading up to that. point like I said I was passionate about it I love doing I wanted to be a good. medic because it was important to me it's damn near like being in college. even never had college experience at that point but it was like being in. college I was in the books 24/7 seven days a week. learning the shit in and out especially in the first three months first half the. course second half is when you actually get to do the real stuff the live tissue.

training surgical skills T Triple C so it was a gut check for sure for me but. again I and part of the motivation was to I wanted to outdo the army yeah. because before that it's always like some army guy getting on her man or. outdoing the Navy guys because there was only like six of us so I took it upon. myself I was like you know what i'ma show them what seals are all about we're.

fuckin we need we need to dominate here because we're such on the microscope all. the time that's always a pain in the. any type of school with a different branch because of that competitiveness. or come what's the word I'm looking for you're under the microscope as other. units and there's a the pissing contest for doing the - yeah pissing match. pissing match with all the branches you know and they see you especially there's.

only a few of you you know we always hung out together and then when we're in. ranks every morning there we're oh segregated there's only a little you. small unit of us and I mean all this staff they're hated the Navy guys it. never goes smoothly that's for fucking sure but but you graduated honor man. which is kind of funny considering you're a subpar student in high school. you're still I mean you're only a couple years older now and and 18 Delta school. correct and you graduate honor man that's I mean that's fucking impressive.

now I was 21 when it finished yeah I turned 21 well is there at the end so. you graduate 18 Delta you're a combat medic you've shown up to SEAL Team four. you show up to SEAL Team four I mean that's a lot of schooling in preparation. for a kid to go through you're finally at SEAL Team four twenty one years old. what was that like yeah that was a long time coming I mean towards the end of.

that once I graduated the school house even asked me like you got her man it. says you got her man we won't offer you to stay longer like hey you want to stay. for additional seven months and be up be here for over a year to do the long. course they called the long course and at the time I was like no I was like I. want to go to the team mm-hmm so that's how hungry I was at that point I was. ready yeah ready to finally be there and do the job as finally I was prepared I.

knew medicine to be a good medic and I was ready to just to actually do the to. be a seal because when you're in Sock'em the med school you're just all you are. is inundated with medicine you're not learning anything seals operators at all. it's just 100% medicine okay which it has to be that way to make. you good medic so you get removed a little bit yeah. so I was so eager to go to a team and just start operating like I wanted to be.

a seal so I was ready I was ready to get after it what was it like walking in the. platoon Hut that first time I mean I know you showed up the SEAL Team four I. know you jumped in a platoon that was coming back from war and here you are. green probably overly motivated as most new guys are and these guys are coming. home from was it Iraq yeah I was going to one troop these dudes around Iraq and. they were just on like the last month of being there about to be coming home and.

they were getting it over there yeah and majority of those guys have already been. there two times some three so was that intimidating for you and very. intimidating because I was only at the time was going only me and a couple of. the new guys were the ones going into one troop which was the scent complet. troop and what the guys that were getting out going to war. so you knew as soon as you showed up you were going to war I was going to one. troop Iraq which is responsible for the AO CENTCOM so I knew inevitably I was.

going to go to Iraq that was kinda in the back of our mind they didn't say for. sure at that time when I first checked in but I knew I was going to one troop. it's happening it's happening that's where I'll be going in the future and. definitely nerve-wracking I was a super intimidated even go and be going to SEAL. Team four and then let alone like going to the platoon space which is like. sacred territory for the old guys yeah so definitely nervous especially when.

they got there and they started trickling in and then because that's. when I first showed up it was like we got our gear we just got a locker. quarter-deck watched new guy duties you know just new guys stuff all the time so. not really much of anything until they actually showed up and then they start. showing up and then we actually get to see him you know these dudes are that. War veterans man these guys have been there done that and I'm just we're just.

over here just new and green knowing shit you know just keep my mouth. shut I imagine them they probably weren't the most welcoming bunch of yes. definitely not not at first no there they they didn't all show up at once. they kind of just all half came in and a half knelt rail then they all went on. leave pretty much almost immediately when they got back but yeah when once. they saw us it was just like blood in the water so did you get to do a full.

train up before you went out the door or yeah I did full workup a full workup. it's work ups about a workup as a year and a half about a year and a half yeah. so you did a year and a half train up on top of all the training you just did to. get out the door how long do you think it took to gain the respect of your. peers your your your new teammates that you're getting ready to go to war with.

they've already been to war I mean that's. I took a while you got a man the fuck up and prove yourself to these guys to. blend you know to to get accepted it was like chunk buds you know bum shot now. show them to the team as a new guy everyone's done what you've done and. more mm-hmm now it's like prove yourself all over. again so it was that whole stress was like again happening and it was just. every single day just putting out putting out put now make sure I'm right. place right time right kit I'm always performing trying to outdo even the new.

guys you know trying to stand out you know just prove myself I'm worthy and I. don't think it was until damn near deployment that we got some we're pretty. much a respect like a okay full workup I like hey he just said that you showed up. and and at the same time you're feeling on top of the world because you just got. your Trident you're a seal medic you're checked into SEAL Team four the fact.

that you just said everybody's already done what I've done plus more I mean. that just just what you've done already by age 21 is fucking impressive. and to have that attitude going in I mean that's kudos to you because it is. that's very real yeah you show up you think you're the shit and then every. single person at that team has already done every fucking thing you've done.

tenfold exactly and I first my first show up there yeah else knew you guys. were like on top of the world I didn't really hit home until we saw our these. seasoned fucking war fighters coming in the doors like okay yeah maybe we needed. to step the fuck back yeah humble ourselves a little bit and it did we. sound like we're really arrogant but we just got to see it and feel like okay we. know our place we need to prove ourselves now were you glad you were you.

knew you were going to combat yeah right off the bat yeah I was glad because. that's what we did that's what we trained to do I mean I've I think I'm. lucky and I'm grateful that I had to be able to have that opportunity even as my. first pump bill go to war I mean not many seals even some of the older seals. I read my platoon could even say that yeah so that was even rare at that time. yeah most guys up my LPO at the time has never even been in combat.

oh sure his old crew you know so guys gonna combat was farthing between you. know it's kind of luck of the draw so I was very grateful and lucky to be a part. of that platoon I mean that was a very interesting time and the teams I feel. like post 9/11 up to about that point because there really wasn't a whole hell. of a lot going on between Vietnam and 9/11 a couple things here and there and.

it created a lot of animosity in the community with it between the older guys. and the newer guys who were coming in and going straight to fucking combat and. other guys I mean some guys have retired out of there you know and right never. got a chance to do that but you went right there do you feel like you were. ready I feel like I have to work up everything up to the point I was. definitely my mind was right I wanted to go I felt confident.

I felt comfortable with being a part of the platoon and I felt solid at first I. thought I was going Iraq and was all geared up for that and then ice ended up. switching troops okay I needed a medic and let him go in. Afghanistan you switch troops or foot splatoon's they needed a medic which. means you're the fucking primary medic as a new guy going to Afghanistan.

correct yeah that's a shit ton of responsibility how do you think you. handled that I thought they had it pretty good I mean I was mentored up by. solid individuals in my troop my original platoon solid medics the senior. medics and older guys because there was only like five of us new guys majority. of Batum is all senior guys at you know multiple combat or if not just one so. seasoned and they they brought us up right and definitely gave me the.

confidence to I can succeed and do my job well and that's how I felt I mean I. was more excited to know how to leave my platoon but then at the same time I was. like really excited to go to Afghanistan because that was a spot what at what. point in the Train and the workup did you switchable tones at the very end I. was in uh I was done with work out so you just spent a year and a half proven.

yourself to a new team only to get removed put in another new team where. you have to prove yourself as a new guy again and you're the fucking primary. medic I mean yeah me and two other guys those are some big shoes to fill it was. it was intimidating cuz I didn't know anybody besides there's two of the guys. that came with me the snipers one was a sniper so they kind of were a buffer a. little conduit they were a little more protective yeah I knew some of the new.

guys they had but yeah the same thing I had to prove myself because they didn't. know who I was they had some other guys kind of ouch him for me but. same token and I still got to prove myself how do you think your dad felt. when he found out I mean he gave you the pamphlet to become a seal you become a. seal now you're getting ready to go out the door and do the shit for real yeah I.

don't it's honestly hard to say cuz I never asked him how he really truly felt. but I'm sure he was nervous cuz I did tell him up front I I thought about just. like lying and just bullshitting my parents and telling where I was just in. the makeups just say I was going to Europe or something just to be fine I'll. be good no builder could call you whenever I crossed my mind but at the.

other day I was like no I'm just going to tell him where I'm actually going. because this is what I signed up to do I thought it was right. what do you expect or Navy SEALs what we do yeah we go to war and handle it but. I'm sure he was nervous and he was excited because I actually doing what I. wanted to do what I love to do but I'm also certain that he was probably scared. shitless I know my mom was yeah did you try to shelter him from what was. actually happening yeah I never I kept it vague yeah I didn't go to.

nitty-gritty and I kept it very vague I said I was going Afghanistan that was it. I didn't say like we're you know obviously didn't tell me what I was. doing even when I was there and I reached I call them email them or even I. try to calm once in a while on the satphone we got to call him I just. didn't even talk about what the hell I was doing is more of this you know how's. it going I'm good you hear my voice like I'm doing well type of conversation yeah.

it's funny lose almost all emotional communication yeah somewhere along that. pipeline it seems like almost all guys do there's no more sense of emotion yeah. you put up the shield like not really realizing it it just happens you know. innately because it's work you know you got. business you know you can't bring motion into it and you can't and I did I didn't.

want to do that to my family like they're gonna be worried sick yeah like. putting undue stress on themselves because I'm over there you know I didn't. want that to happen so I'm sure it still did anyway but I didn't want to feel. that far you're getting ready to leave for combat as a brand new medic to. Afghanistan with your new platoon as a new guy going back to your dad who.

you're extremely extremely close with do you think his you think his mindset. changed at all did he get worried that you were now that it became very real. like hey Dad I'm going to Afghanistan for six to nine months I would say so. yeah I mean at the time he didn't they didn't really express their worries to. me that much because they wanted me to remain focused but I knew because after.

the fact I spoke to but I knew their distress was high. they're definitely worried I saved more fear of the unknown for them at least. because I was the first one in the immediate family going in the military. and they had no experience of any one of their family going in the military so. this is all new to everybody so on your family you're the first one yes that's. going in the military and you're going to war at the highest level exactly and.

they'd so they knew I want to be doing some things I want to take a call and I. have your dad on the line Jim hey Jim how's it going this is John Ryan I've. got your son sitting here and we're talking about right before he leaves on. his first combat deployment at SEAL team fours a new guy and I was wondering if.

you have any questions you'd like to ask him hey. I do actually I love the date he called me to kind of say goodbye to me whether. you still ready head out for that the point at the appointment now what I just. helped you felt when he landed in Afghanistan after all the years of. training for that okay led up to that moment but it was a big deal for him to. even think about it ever since high school woman I was his only treats how. easily he felt when he actually landed in Afghanistan for the first appointment.

how I felt about it I mean I was scared I was talking to Sean about this I was. definitely nervous as hell I think those nerves turned into more with the. excitement and the motivation but definitely scared of shit because I knew. knew exactly I was doing it for real I mean I wasn't going to Europe or South. America I was actually going to war all that training and hard work coming to. fruition finally it was I couldn't even figure I could it's hard for me to even.

explain in the words to obviously you guys what I was gonna be doing but I. kind of just in the back of our mind hope that you understood or at least. somewhat understood what I was actually going to do Jim I got a question for you. so you were really supportive of Travis going into the end of the SEAL Teams and. and doing that job how did it feel for you when he checked into SEAL Team four.

and you realized holy shit my son's going straight - straight to combat. after we've already been at war for seven years work hard towards oh I was.

so proud of him at the same time I was nervous - yeah he was going out Dennis. Tanner didn't we know how to look out there actually we didn't know when I'd. actually talked to the gangs let me read be going on this champion because we. check in when you could never know what that would be. how was that how was that six-month deployment for you as a father was that. compared to all the other time in your life was that would you say that was.

probably one of the most stressful moments of your dad no I mean I'm glad.

that you I guess after you saying that yeah the good mind said about it because. at the time I was given vague information cuz I didn't know either I. mean I didn't know when the hell I was about even call or what type of. connectivity I was gonna have there etc or I kind of had idea what I do what we.

were doing but I didn't know the how you know important much we were gonna be. doing so it was even hard and difficult to me explain to my family what exactly. what I was beginning to and I purposely didn't I've ever seen I kept it vague I. did I said hey this is where I'm going I almost thought about lying and be like. I'm going somewhere else yeah like I'm just gonna go to Europe I'm going to. Europe for six months I'll bail I'll call you when I get there.

or something just keep it really vague we could keep it comfortable but at the. end of day I felt like that would be doing a disservice I'll be like. snowstorm going yeah so this is this is what I do.

Jim I got one last question for you before we jump off the line here. what made you hand Travis the brochure on being a Navy SEAL remember that he.

would talk about what do you wanted to do in life I'm just never seen a person. or driven at such a young age I thought well this could be perfect for him with. the driver he has Coleen Wow that's so you knew he was gonna make it right off. the bat training like training for buzz going.

just hold the driving call where do you think he got is born you know carried.

over to your left that's incredible definitely and. businessman having run his own business yeah and so definitely well Jim I really. appreciate your time and for the call and and uh we'll be home soon all right. dad Thanks all right no but how did that feel was a.

pleasant surprise expected was it did you know when all. that stuff before how he felt and know because I don't see never really asked. no but I knew they probably did feel that way like I said but I just I mean. even to this day I haven't asked him yeah I know but it's good I mean he had. the right mindset well you guys are obviously very close and that's really.

cool to see but enough of the mushy stuff let's move on to combat so your. boots on the ground Afghanistan what year 2010 2010 a lot of shit happened. right around then like bin Laden got killed. you know where'd you land did you land in Bagram wounded in calf killed yet you. went straight to Kandahar yeah went to Kandahar and then from there we loaded.

up and shipped out to a place called fob Lane with the time still team 3 was. there well it's a little little tiny fob and back in the day was owned by an SF. unit and team guys took it over it was in Southeast Afghanistan a province. called Zabul and the area called Arghandab so there's definitely the. hotspot of the time in the area but we ended up getting arriving there and then.

till team 3 was there like I said and we end up doing you know once we hit boots. on the ground you do so fired up motivated getting checked in we kind of. pretty quickly I'd say within the first week we started planning and for our. first turnover up so fairly fast just for reference southern Afghanistan down. in Kandahar is one of the hottest zones on always has been throughout the what.

almost two decades yeah that's going on or war time in Afghanistan and how long. were you there before how long I mean did you guys even have time to settle in. because I in Kath did a lot of research and I talked to some of your friends and. I mean you guys were getting it so in once we arrived to our fob yeah yeah. like I said it was pretty quick we got half I would say half a SEAL team.

three platoon kind of left as we arrived and then the the kind of leadership more. senior guys stayed on board to do turnover with us but it was fairly. quickly before we started turning and burning and how that nice that good. battle rhythm and just started knowing because our art art honestly the. leadership that I had was eager and hungry. what black track real quick before we get into the details. what were your living conditions like how many people a lot of people don't.

understand what a fob is a fob is not like a big base it's a small fortified a. lot of times using sandbags as cover can you kind of describe your living. conditions how many guys who are worth were there locals we had so we had our. entire platoon so about we actually went there with I would say 18 seals 18 I. think was nine to 18 or 19 seals and we had another handful of enablers plus.

SEAL team 3 there so we had almost 60 guys I would say on this fob we only had. one we had no locals that slept on our thought with this no nun or partner. force okay so they had their own own little fob I was sleeping and we had. like little B Hut's little wooden rooms so this fob honestly was pretty well it. was decently built up because it's been it would had been there for a while like. I said in the army SF unit Oda unit ran it and established this thing so it.

pretty well built up it wasn't very big but it was decently built up so living. conditions honestly my first point weren't bad so I was we're all pretty. decently comfortable okay as far as sleeping is concerned but we. we would get attacked on nightly basis of that comfort wasn't went out the. window every night you're getting it pretty. much what are you getting attacked with small arms indirect okay yeah any bar.

any close calls a few somebody it get into the base but not near that where we. slept but it was mainly just kind of sporadic. fire they were definitely aiming at us and getting close but nothing I wouldn't. say effective at least on their fob well were you having to defend the base at. all or was it all pretty much in know we got weed every time we based offense way. to good we use our our G's we had some rg-31.

with the 50 cals on it and we also had a which is the up armored all-terrain. vehicle oh good so it's big beefed up like an all-terrain and we had our 50k. they had 50 Cal weapon system a remote weapons system they call hard ws is on. top of those things so we placed those in position we also had a huge tower. with the 50 on it that we used as well and then we also had a mortar pit - oh. good so we would send our own indirect fire what point so how long were you.

there before you started leaving the wire and going out on on your own ops. and look what was your mission there so our mission was a strike force we ended. up just doing the straight village clearance and direct action but our very. first op that some we did turn our turnover up was one that was pretty. impactful for everybody that was there we did a turnover out with SIL team.

three only few very few guys in my platoon actually went went on it because. it was mostly SEAL Team 3 doing or turnover I'm just kind of see how they. did business kind of SOPs and they left late that night and before you know the. Sun even rose we I got woken up the middle of the night load of the helo. because the helo crashed oh she killed everybody so we lost team.

four guys three guys all the whole crew everybody in the bird went down we lost. a one guy survived and your Dow he survives welcome in a miracle but so the. bird ended up crashing on the hillside going down it didn't it didn't get shot. down anything but it was going because we did a lot of overwatch positions we.

call them SC positions and then we had the main element down the ground in the. village and we had the overwatch positions which we call supporting. element up in the mountains so we did a lot of that at night so the helos would. land at these peaks and sometimes they wouldn't even touch ground they would. just hover over the cuz they couldn't land on these mountaintops or so this. train was rugged yeah so this burden I'm just clipping the. side of the mountain and lost everybody except one so so that I go woken up in.

that load of the bird went over hover over it because they there was nobody. there there was only because the other bird was getting dropped off somewhere. else on another peak so I got woken up loaded the bird grabbed all my med kit I. mean that was like something up hey hello like fuckin reality check bird. just went down let's expect everyone to be dead get your fucking med kit get. your litters now so I can grab all my shit I had it all staged thank God all.

ready to fucking go but I'd load up as quickly as I can. jumped in the bird and then we took off by the time we get there we hovered over. it by the time we got there the PJs were there they started the recovery so that. was our very first opposite attune Jesus Christ. lost ears are off the bat that's that's fucking tough yeah that was a definitely.

a huge kind of wake-up call for the boys yeah that was tough too that was because. we had me like I said up at that point we haven't done anything yeah I mean go. on an OP we're still fucking trying to get our feet wet figure shit out next. thing you know we lose fucking five guys so it's it's it's real fucking real yeah. that's real this fucking this is reality now so it was definitely that put it.

damper on things I wouldn't say not for a long time I should believe I don't. know probably I would say for a few days you know it was tough but the Turner we. had a really good leadership that they understood that it was important to. fucking keep the guys moving yeah keep the mind focused a lot of times when you.

lose guys in a combat zone and you know them it'll create a type of ritual or. maybe not a ritual but something that you'll do to prepare yourself before. every session yeah yeah I would say like a ritual. did I do anything yeah did that specific incident because it happened so fast. when she got in country to dad did that create any kind of routine before you.

would go on on a mission like some kind of superstition or I didn't develop we. all as a platoon we all like took a knee and prayed before we went out that was. kind of a mutual agreement and I've never done anything like that at that. point but I did it with him just just to fucking keep the mind right yeah every. time we stepped out the door and I I think it helped you stay focused but.

after that event you know that the boys were everyone was locked tight because. they knew that's I mean that doesn't get more real than that no most guys go to. combat you know they may not experience it you know some a lot do but you going. in expecting not to experience it you don't want your boys to fucking die yeah. I want you to lose teammates yeah that's the worst possible scenario but you. still you hope for the best you know what that should happen in your own.

teammates but I think after that event everybody just fucking locked the fuck. on you know everyone was already a long time but that just a whole nother level. send it over the top yeah now you're chomping at the bit yeah now that. motions a little angry you know you know we're. in bad guy country so now like the motivation is even more to fucking just. get after and take it to them yeah a lot of myself included used tragic events or.

the loss of friends to kind of build that anger and fuel your mindset before. going on ops which is and that's why I asked that question yeah who was your. guys top tempo like a few times a week I say three or four times a week we'd be. out the door we Louie all we did was fly away ops leaving the middle of night. helos going to villages majority of them were 24 hours to 48 hours we did long.

172 so we didn't do the only time we did local we would just walk to our little. local village or something like that but 95% of them we're all flyaways like I. said three or four times a week village clearance were you guys looking for. something specific were you stirring up the hornet's nest what was the we would.

be able to talk about a little bit of both. targeting a lot of a presence and establishing more of a green zone for us. and just showing face we would clear the village but at the end of the day the. mission was hey clear the village let's get the elders together let's establish. rapport and build relationships but we're all at the same time we're. filtering out the bad guys that's kind of the under arching it was but the.

overarching mission was say we need to build make sure it's increase our green. zone build relations and show more presence that was our main focus and I. spent majority of that deployment if not all that appointment on top of mountains. yeah where you guys getting after it were you. engaging yeah third time you left the wire was a hit-or-miss. i wouldn't say it not every time definitely a hitter mitt would I say.

about 50% of the time we were getting ticks okay get in contact with the enemy. and you're doing flyaways so you're getting in a tick on foot I don't have. any you guys aren't bringing any vehicles maybe snow they're all except. them let me get small arms and indirect and how many guys are going on ops with. you roughly the entire platoon so we're almost 30 guys with enablers okay and.

partner force so we brought the door with partner for us as well and platoon. you know that's 18 guys 19 guys plus our neighbor is another five so we're up. there we get a decent force but we end up having to supporting helmets with at. least four guys and then the main Allen was the big element the ground which was. doing the clearance we had to overwatch position so and where were you I would. end up always been on the overwatch okay a few times I'd go down there on the.

main element but marked or not I would just volunteer to go on overwatch. position put me on there my leadership would put me up there too so I got very. familiar with the mountains of Afghanistan you know were you watching. your guys get into engagements yeah but actually Martin thought we would get the. tix okay they would see us up there because these this is where these dudes. are hanging out yeah they're not hanging out on the ground we talked tonight.

we're talking day we go in a night insert at night and then execute during. the day just a sunrise okay so the helos when you guys would take off for an OP. they weren't you weren't landing right in the village it would land we would. offset from the village the main element not far baby I could click okay and then. they were patrolling and then right at first light they would you know break. that last line to cover and start making start conducting clearance and then we.

would they would insert us at some peak we would do some false inserts and then. it sort of set a certain peak and then we'd control up to the top of the. mountain where ever we needed to go but believe it or not been a lot of. times where we ended up being very close to where the enemy's hanging out yeah. these guys are on the ground they don't then from my first deployment my. experience then and had the balls to go face to face on the ground with with.

seals with us at least they would occasionally but it would be more. sporadic and there would be at a distance wouldn't be super effective I. would be I got more effective fire when I was up in the supporting element the. never did and I was on the ground no shit that's an interesting did you. utilize your your training is an 18 Delta on that deployment I did only.

medical treatment I didn't after that the point we didn't Guinea no serious. injuries yeah I did a local minimal stuff for partner force we end up doing. med caps every weekend for the villagers so I would do a lot of treatment for. that but as far as combat care no because we didn't have any serious. injuries at post the helo crash you know so let's wrap that deployment up you. coming home as a new guy or I guess you're not a new guy anymore.

but I'm in shit that's I mean that's pretty fucking real right off the bat to. cut your teeth into what was it like for you coming back going back to the team. and seeing the next batch of new guys enter into your platoon and you're going. straight back to combat again mm-hmm for the next one yeah I was going right back. into one troop again staying there and I knew dandy right away we knew we were.

gonna go to Afghanistan because Iraq kind of stopped now they had they needed. to actually at the time all the troops were going Afghanistan this next. go-around it was that much of a demand so all of them were going so everyone. yeah the Sal even the three troop with South competence some of the guys are. even getting filtered out and going to so that's how much the. was so we I knew it was going coming back home from deployment you know was I.

mean I was describe it but it was if I was relieved I was kind of ready to come. home at that point nervous - because I've been gone kind of for so long I. seemed like yeah being my first deployment so I really didn't know how. to act or you know behave once I got back I mean I wasn't married or had kids. or anything so I came back and they're just me so I just pretty much just.

continue doing work again yeah I mean I did go home like a month later took some. leave took like two weeks came back here at California hang out with the family. was it hard but I mean interact a little bit because I felt like they wanted to. ask stuff didn't they didn't know how to ask it and they didn't ask it and they. really didn't know I like because I know I noticed this now more than in the past.

when I was a new guy like soon as you're around people that are very unfamiliar. with military in general let alone seals and like deployment they just they think. the things that you've done may have messed you up or something or may have. they put this stigma on you may be no fault of their own because that's just. like kind of the mentality but I felt that way like you all right you know. you're everything good you know how was how was deployment you know you're doing. good etc but over time it was fine like I kind of just got back on the grind of.

being on the back of the team again and it was a good thing it's actually a good. feeling once I kind of platooned up again and that was an older guy if you. want to say that and then now I got to work with my new you know mentor new. guys and you know watch them prove themselves to me and the rest of the. fucking guys that you know been there and done that yeah as well did you find.

out you're going back to Afghanistan how fast after you got back from your first. pump in Afghanistan I would say we found out officially probably halfway. through but at the beginning we always knew that we were gonna go back so maybe. a good maybe good six months so you were kind of like iffy and then six months. later so yes I was like hey no you're no shit going to Afghanistan now it's where. where are we going Afghanistan oh okay so you did know that you knew like right.

away yeah so it's like okay we knew it because like I said everyone was gonna. go there but it was more of a question of where exactly in that ganna start me. going because the other puts troops and I'm going like calf mmm major bases yeah. so this was kind of again as of that competition we need to be the best. performing fuckable attuned to get the best mission because at the time via so. what's coming about village stability ops what we called it and that was the.

mindset of we needed to win the hearts and minds kind of went over the people. and that was the mission to be on because that was we were getting you. wanted to be sent in the most remote areas yeah more chance to get you wanted. to be a lot of that yeah more chance to get into firefights get after it. less stress of the flagpole and we're on our own you know we're doing we could do. our own thing and be effective you know we're not we don't have our hands tied. if we're like the units at the CAF we're all like that's like a major hub which.

the other two troops and so we ended up getting the VSO mission at the end of. the day and work up we had a solid head shed a lot of experienced dev group guys. and they really groomed the troop well and we had strong chiefs and you know. all that leadership was really tight so your immediate reaction when you found.

out you're going right back to Afghanistan in a year year and a half. depending on how long your workup is were you did you want to go back were. you excited to go back did that become home for you I was excited to go back. you were yeah I was hungry to go again I was especially after my first. experience I felt I was way more experienced and more prepared and I.

could knew what I was getting myself into so I was ready to go back and at. that time they're like hey guess what you're also gonna be staying 8 months. maybe you could speed up to 10 months 10 months yeah so it was like eight to ten. because before that still team ten went out there they ended up staying there. for ten months yeah right before us so that wasn't a. change as well because with this new mitt new VSO mission they required us to.

be on the ground longer okay build relationships I was kind of the mindset. strategy behind it so we knew we're gonna be there longer okay so as to be. the rougher and being that VSO mission we knew we're gonna be this this. deployment was gonna be rough it was - it was unlike you nothing like my first. one the second one was worse second one was yeah were you and Jeff together on. this one we're together okay did you guys know each other before them yeah we.

did a little bit we're in different troops where do you fly into for your. second deployment let's skip the workup and let's just go straight back over. there what where did you fly into this the. same place calf right back to an outer base right back to calf and then we had. to fly - I ended up going in the same area southeast Afghanistan again. Arghandab River Valley where my first deployment was but I was just a little. further north where my first fog was could that father going away so we. established SEAL team 2 was here they established this via so sight when we.

got there was nothing it was like three two tents Alaskan tents a couple hess. COEs i mean this thing wasn't even a base it wasn't even fully said little I. could throw a football to one end it was less than hundred yards no shit I was. small so you're this base is less than a football field yeah it's like smaller. than football small that's a ball field with two tents yeah when we got there.

was two tents we didn't have no running water no shitters they right. next to a village and then their partner force owned a compound that they took. over right next to the the team guys little site and these guys are rough I. mean we got the really holy shit you know like these guys were fucking. roughing it this was like real deal so that was unexpected we got we had a.

little kind of they told us a little bit but we had no idea was like like that. magnitude that level but yeah these guys were roughing it I didn't have anything. because you couldn't drive there nope no heels would hardly ever come because. every time they would come in here they would get shot at every single time so. like you know upper lovers like now we can't bring any lows in there so it was.

like very rare that would David even for us even getting there was a pain you. know even to change out crews there's a pain in the ass just can you walk us. through a little bit more about how many people are on this table what was it. just your troop where you know was just two platoon ok so there's like 16 yes. with enablers by pushing 20 little over to like 21 22 with enablers and then.

steel team - was there a platoon they had minimal guys with short oh because. they already shipped some guys off so I think they had like 12 guys so it was. tight we were sleeping on top of each other we ended up making another tent so. we could all pack in we're sleeping on cots literally right next to each other. just racked up jam as many as you can in there until we got more more gear more. equipment cuz we even have any more tents there's nowhere to sleep we got to. sleep on top of each other until still team to finally get out of there but we.

did a couple turnover ops which I'm going pretty smooth mm-hmm so that went. well and then they end up leaving and then from there the whole time was like. literally build up shop we needed to establish some sort of living but we. the whole time I was there we had no running water we always slept on cots we. didn't have a kitchen it was in like a dirt hut they would drop us food the via.

airdrop because no kilos would come in hardly ever relive him with locals yeah. we lived we had locals a partner for us living on our fob how many there is. about six of them what was that relationship like did you guys have any. confidence in them some a lot of units have different I had confidence so I ran. actually these guys I the role I was in I ended up being like their handler. paying them make sure their their gear you know those guys actually were good.

there are counter iad kind of partner force they were solid so we didn't. really mind their trustworthy we felt comfortable with them walking around on. her fob and they had weapons the partner force our real partner for us the AAA SF. guys are with us that lived in the compound probably 50 yards away we're. decent at first and like towards the middle of the point we had some hiccups.

way to get rid of them because we lost confidence oh that because they were we. I think we ended up doing something that didn't like and then mmm we had to call. in counterintelligence guys to interview them and there was some red flags with. kind of attitudes towards us maybe possible like in signs of attack or. aggression this happens a lot in a lot of different units and a lot of.

different agencies when you guys got rid of them where did they go. did you guys just cut him loose and send them back to their town because that can. create an entire new enemy no toward you the ASF was kind of somewhat of. established for us somewhat so but they just got him Heatley got out of there so. we they didn't we didn't say hey walk away from the fob and just go find your. own path they got in a bird and we shipped him out of there got a whole. nother unit okay so it was it's fairly easy.

but at up to that point too late left it was like we didn't trust them like hey. don't you can't come over here with UK man approached our fob or a little via. so sight with a gun yeah do not you can come over here no. weapons though we searched them just a lot of animosity was building up so. you're dealing with that and then you said it was hotter you're stuck in. deployment so were you guys getting hit on the fob - oh yeah all the time.

once we got there he was damn near every night every night I call it take 30. fucking every night right with sundown these dudes are just smash us with small. arms and they would it would be effective and indirect it would man be. in our coming through our tents small armed with P cam rounds and then. indirect fire as well you know landing in our fob and just right out of it like. in one fucking blew up our kitchen damn near kill the dude he was in and lucky.

he dove into our little our little med center was attached for a kitchen so he. ain't luckily diving into that got some fragments back but he came out and. scathed but but they were that what happened a nightly basis I mean I first. do is we're not expecting that I mean tensions were high we're like at night. going to bed you know we're relaxed our shits ready to go but you know we didn't. we weren't expecting that and it took some time to fucking get used to and.

then before you know it dudes were in their racks with like full. Cammy full kit just ready to go because we knew is coming yeah this every night. would just be the same fucking thing should man so what I mean what was your. washer op tempo like this deployment compared to little more we were going on. a daily basis on this one daily but every day you're going out and are we. doing foot patrols we're doing foot yeah we're doing foot patrols to local.

villages maybe further north a little bit south presence and create again. increasing that green zone because we only go so far because we we didn't do. any type of flyways it was all because of you so we needed to stay local did a. lot of ones in the village near us but every time it seemed like every time. we went out we're getting new a tick Wow every single time so they're going out. every day you're getting in a gunfight outside of your fob then you come home.

or maybe maybe this had already happened but and then you got a deal with the. base getting hit so I mean this yeah it honestly was like that I would say all. the way up until December it kind of died down a little bit because I got. cold so we were kind of expecting that but it's even still like they still. would fucking every time we would the base attacks were lighting up but every. time we went out the door those would be the same wow they just knew what where.

the fuck we were going they could see us before we were coming that was hard for. us because we were just we didn't do any night ops who's all bright middle a day. they knew we were going there to fucking meet just meet key leaders shake hands. and establish rapport and his hold of security we weren't necessarily. targeting individuals we did a few times we ended up Iran Intel so we ended up.

going on missions purely driven off the Intel that was found being myself. sources and my other teammate that was we were partners together in it so we. would gather on until then target that way. Wow and then other missions we would get from hire as well but and we got. creative with it that deployment we said was roughly ten months nine to ten. months it was that yeah almost it was I ate how many engagements would you say.

you and/or your team were part of in that eight months do you have any idea I. don't I mean it sighs I lost count who's that many yeah I don't know a hard. number yeah it was a lot and I would say pushing 100 yeah I mean with all the ops. fob attacks and even just going out the door like damn near right around the.

corner next Jeff Raymond our own village I mean just. a six-month deployment alone is a hundred and eighty days and if you guys. were taken if you guys were taking fire and getting into ticks almost every day. and you did longer than six months just to put that in perspective for it. because most guys don't think about this that's a hundred and eighty fucking. engagements yeah there's a lot of engagements at the time I might even. look it like that because you just you don't pay attention to it yeah you know. you're just you're ready for the next yeah ready for the next one and then.

before you know it you know I think they'd the leadership to keep track of. it but guys didn't really focus on it but it was a lot I mean it felt like. that like he said it felt like every damn night and almost what the beginning. it was they wanted to fucking try something you've never thought about. that until just now so what's that sound like to you when I put that in. perspective and I say you took part in over a hundred and eighty fucking. engagements in less than a and in eight months. oh yeah that's a lot of fucking yeah that I've never really thought of it.

like that you know is that the time you're just doing the job you're doing a. job and you know thinking of it as a tick like a like a check in the box like. oh I got one two three that's why when he takes I got you know you know what. Ranger you guys fighting at is always different is it up close and personal or. is it are they throughout that is one was. everything everything and in between you guys have air support we had some air.

support occasionally with little birds and we had sometimes we had some f-18s. fast movers we would come in nice but mainly just the Hilo support I'd only. that was like the only platform that really be available even to come in to. help us out so but not often not every time you're really out there hanging out. there yeah we're just us you know it was really just us we had some army guys.

attached to us a little army unit that we utilize for fob security and some. other support so it's really just us doing our thing out there. there's a blood you know blessing in disguise I think I mean it was we got so. much out of it and I don't think we would have the experience we had if we. were wearing an analyst I wouldn't have that deployment if I would say went to. CAF or anything like that I mean really truly was just us. that was our deployment we were fully control over it and definitely learned a.

lot and had shit-ton of experiences I mean for God's sake. helo we had another helo crash at this fob thank God it wasn't as horrific as. the first one I experienced helo coming in at 47 came in crashed on our fob shit. came in nose down and because our hlz was kind of a slope came in nose down.

dusted himself out slow rolled into the corner of our Hesco barriers which Hesco. barriers are filled with dirt on the border of the the site hit that. completely destroyed that 47 split the front end in half destroyed every blade. there was a mark 19 in that corner so grenades are going off shit like it. sounded like we just like everyone was inside at this time it was midday only. two people were out there so you're getting head oh yeah I could run out.

there I was like in my tent I remember and I heard this huge explosion grab my. med bag fucking ran out there looked and I see if 47 just blowing up I mean this. thing was shreds believe it or not the to the crew survived I was like this. yeah these guys were crushed up into the the. front end that the two side door Gunners were smashed up into it into because the.

whole front and nose crunched and these dudes there was there be two shit but. they survived shit yeah it was crit was unbelievable. did you guys lose anybody on that deployment only we didn't know no team. guys no American forces we lost our one of our close partner force the one of. the guys that lived on the base with us our counter IUD guys their head do their. leader was a shot in the head killed during an OP during a tick lucky.

shot I mean it was it was actually kind of it was a hard loss even for us. because he he we became close with him because there was only six of them these. guys were northern Afghani and these dudes fucking hate Taliban. yeah the Pashtun people that live in the south. so these dudes were really truly there for the right cause right reason fight. for their country and their fucking good at what they did different a motivator. yeah they're fucking it was good to see that and motivated us you know if we.

could just work with them we were like we're just taking you guys fuck everyone. everyone else that's one thing I've noticed about the Afghans versus Mike's. personal experience with the Iraqis is the Iraqis most of them we had those. guys attached to us most of them were fucking lazy and they didn't really want. to be there but on the other hand the Afghans I mean those are some fucking. dedicated fighters yeah and they want to make shit happen and they want to.

fucking be there and which is really cool to see you know that to see a host. nation you know one to you know do the right thing but yeah it was it was. humbling for to see that shit because it makes you want to do your job harder. like cuz you're there of helping them out fighting for their country in your. country you see that it's good shit was hard for their team and the loss they. actually quit they all left because they didn't want to work anymore because they.

lost her commander but it eventually talked him back into coming back to us. yeah I'm so it was a difficult time but overall experience for the books man you. know sounds like it I'm going to take another call we got a. mutual friend on the line who was there or that whole second employment with you.

Jeff read time Jeff read from frozen tried and how the hell are you pretty. good man so I got a buddy of yours that I think you might know on my show right. now Travis Kennedy oh yeah it's good to hear. your voice man I'm doing good man glad you get to call in so I got a.

question for you guys there's like I was scouring through both your instagrams. before you got here and there's a picture of you and Jeff and another. guy's face that's blurred out and you're sitting against a mud wall with a big. shit-eating grin on both of your faces and you're talking about a big. engagement that just happened the whole night before and I was wondering if I.

could get both your guys's perspective on what happened that night. kick it off.

yeah I do man it's that one that picture was on the very end of the OP I mean. this the insert exfil he was over it was damn near 15k in throughout the night.

and I was yeah we did on the way there and then we clear to did a village. clearance we ended up just laughing because that's where we did a video. we're waiting for our Vic's to come in and it was just so damn long that was.

one of our biggest one of the biggest hops I think we did that deployment. because it was just so long and we had a lot of people with us and again yeah. Jeff said every time we went out literally we were wet and then we I. think it then we were just everyone was just at such exhaustion like so fucking. tired we're leaning it post up against this wall me and Jeff and then two of. our buddies actually two guys next to us where the are you guys I know you. remember him but uh we were just fucking bullshit in the shit just fucking. suffering and laughing at the same time because we're so fucking beat to shit.

we just patrolled in fill all nighter cleared this big-ass village gotten some. ticks cleared IEDs we had a lot of overhead Jeff was dealing all the. overhead and then we xfield back humped it back and that took us all damn day to. hump that back that far and then we were just posted up waiting sitting there for. hours is for Vic's to come get us it was his almost it was pretty funny. you have something dealing with voices and it said ever since I've known I'm.

but Jeff when I talked to you and asked you to give a call in you had a question. for Travis about some Carl Gustav rounds and for you civilian types out there. Carl Gustav is basically a big-ass rocket launcher. it's shoulder-fired so why don't you go ahead and fire that question off Jeff.

hell yeah I do because everyone thought I fucked a mortar hit me yeah I do die.

bury that cuz our LPO thought a fucking mortar hit me me and Blake were shooting. it I shot it he loaded it for me I staged it right outside in the try. wall little cardboard box outside of my tent because I couldn't there wasn't any. room so I ran out I knew our stage it grabbed the Gustav he grabbed the rounds. and we fucking ran to the corner of the fob and fucking launched that thing. we're at the mountain the same mount we always got hit at literally same exact. mountain that every time did you get hit from there again I think so that was.

right I got hit there again it's get a kid on boots on how many rounds did you. fire I think I'm just a couple just couple yeah but I use that more than. once with just a couple Carl Gustav rounds yeah shopping mall but because. our LPO was up on top of that little deck above the kitchen he looked down.

and saw like this massive explosion he told me after as he said my fucking. heart set. yeah yeah that was a big one dude I was they thought they had had upon us cuz we. refresh it well Jeff Travis tells me this was probably the most the most.

eventful deployment of the three that uh he did what uh what would you say about. that what'd you guys do flip a coin yeah and we were debating whether we wanted.

to get our boots wet that's the toughest decision right there.

if it was worth it no better was worth it to dish out some love to the you know. local haters yeah well Jeff thanks for calling in man you. got any words for Travis for we up and the call thanks Jeff to get your voice. brother hope you're well all right Jeff you too man.

tell the wife tell the kid I said hello and especially a dance or two that's my. favorite one so alright be safe Jeff the light was good hearing his voice that's. the last call I promise but how's that did that take you back I mean it did. yeah did it make him miss it a little bit maybe yeah maybe miss being around. guys like Jeff yeah honestly it's been a while since I even talked to him so it.

was good to hear his voice and reminisce yeah I get to do it often. yeah and none of us are as good as we'd like to be at keeping in touch and. sometimes the best thing for us and my opinion is to you know separate yourself. at least for a little while from you know the majority of the community to. get up find a new way but so we've already established that your second. deployment was a really eventful one you come back home again for the second time.

did you know you were going back to combat again for a third time or no I. wasn't gonna I was at that time was going to buzz instructor oh okay you. want to become a buds instructor yeah did you want to do that yeah you're. ready for a for a break yeah I was ready they asked me if I wanted to do. something different and that was the only way I was I'm going to leave they.

were trying to force too out to go to trade it yeah I'm and I was. like no it was like I'm not going there if I'm gonna do something I want to do I. want to be a buds instructor yeah yeah at the forefront of the training and I. knew I wanted a budget structure at first phase I was like oh you were first. phase I was first phase and that was my goal you were a total fucking dickhead. yeah all right I was like the quiet why I fuckin dickhead out that landish.

instructor yelling and screaming but that's like the worst kind you never and. I knew what I wanted thinkin yeah so I said I'd the opportunity it was hard to. get because the guys going from east to west it was it's a fate you know it's. not hard to do leadership is not really prone to like guys do that but I guess. they were said screw it let me do it you went to so you come home from deployment. it was a rough one you guys did a lot of good shit got a lot of combat and you go.

did you go straight to buds as a first phase instructor when you got back got. back to it obviously did turn to some break some leave cool down. Lauren R and then as soon as I was done with that it was later I got orders to. go to buds I called him ahead of time I was like. look I'm coming there I want to go first phase and they're like alright you got. it yeah yeah and I just checked in simple as out well this is interesting.

that because you were so motivated to become a seal and and talking to your. dad that I mean he had no doubt you were gonna make it and then you go to combat. you make it through you go to combat you do two pumps you had some you took some. heavy you got a lot of combat time how did your mentality change towards I mean. you show up and you got 200 men you know some of them are still fucking kids.

others are you know little older trying to you know prove with themselves they. can make it what I'm always curious like what do you think of the what do you. when you see 200 people that all want to be exactly what. you are and none of them almost none of them have any fucking idea of what. they're about to go through if in the unlikely event that they make it well.

what do you think of the what do you think of the class are you right away I. know you know 80% of them are not gonna be there and I don't say that overtly. but I just know yeah but I take it what I've learned when I was instructor I was. able to it was definitely a growing experience for me I would say. professionally and maturity for sure just being once you walk into that it's.

just like a bubble its own world like as an instructor even as students like even. but as an instructor you're held you're like you're on a pedestal whether you. think so or not you know you're a god to these students you know in their mind. they want to be you so it's definitely upholding the standard and exceeding the. standard but when I look at students I just whenever I saw a fresh class I've. always took it as a fresh start I mean they needed to prove themselves to me I.

get a blank slate for them until proven otherwise. okay we had some times we classed up looking at him sometimes I as classes. went on I became inherently just I could look at a guy and be like no no shit not. happening were you ever wrong a couple times yeah yeah the nerdiest looking. fucking dweeb oh yeah makes it huh I mean nine times out of ten but makes it.

that's people think you know so concerned about size weight strength etc. it's those guys are put out more than I've seen d1 athletes guys with. everything like supposed to be athletic studs just quit day one yeah so it's. just there's no you can't pinpoint it what I've learned you can't pinpoint. like he's me good he's not he's solid he's not you know it's. so broad you know you just never could tell who wants it more as time goes it's.

all proven in action it's like someone could say they want it but that doesn't. mean shit until you're out there I mean you've been through a lot at this point. and I mean did you have any animosity towards the students did you want them. to quit our did you did you like talk to us about when you look at a class and. you have just come from what you've come through and you're still at a young age.

I mean what are you are you thinking I'm gonna fucking crush you you're going to. quit or are you thinking no I definitely had that mindset with certain. individuals not everybody I could tell I would get really fucking pissed and. angry at certain students just based off their performance and just lack of. mental strength and just the want to be there because you hear everything in the.

wind of why they're there you know why they're not performing etc or quitting. so it was just frustrating to me as well as the other instructors and I worked as. I got to work with some seasoned instructors to have been majority of him. if not all of them a couple all combat really and all the leadership were. damned Nick okay so seasoned guys so the tolerance for not putting out or. not wanting to be there was ill CH for everybody the patients were so I got I.

it was so easy what I learned as an instructor was so easy to see the. negative and somebody to like we are so quick to say we spoke about it like. eating your own so fast yeah we were so fast I found it because I did it just to. find so negative performance in somebody and they maybe were doing okay but as. soon as they slip up just a little bit we're on it. he may be okay he may be like overall a decent like up to that point but maybe. just having a bad fucking day or something but as soon as he has a bad.

fucking day we're on him trying to get him out of there. you know we're just very it's I found myself jumping to the negativity so fast. mm-hmm vice looking at everything like is this guy. performing and see what is he doing after this point what's his reputation. in class etc looking at the bigger picture you know I was always front. sight focus on making dudes quit yeah at first which I found out that it was kind. of like that was the wrong approach I shouldn't I shouldn't have done that.

like right out the gate you know our goal our goal isn't just to fucking make. dudes quit we want to get rid of the guys and want to be there and the. program gets rid of the guys you know itself this hasn't been changed a proven. system the guys are gonna leave because the curriculum it is what it is. structures are they're just there to help hold the standards did you did your. mindset start to change while you were current while you were at first phase as. an instructor or de jure mindset change like after you left thinking back on how.

everything went it changed while I was there I would say it changed when I. became a proctor of a class and I was like the lead instructor of class 3:05. and I really got to get to know the class how was their guy was their. conduit between the rest and instructors I would meet with them talk with them. make sure they have all their shit squared away for the next day meet with.

them on the weekends you know I became close and built a relationship with the. guys at first I'm just I'm there to help with scheduling and just help the class. and weed out the people I don't want to be there but as time goes on you build. relationship because you you're with them the entire seven weeks you know. first phase so I grew that's where I think I definitely grew as an instructor. and as a seal as far as maturity is concerned no shook is that. responsibility too cuz you're the go-to guy you're not just another instructor.

out there yelling and screaming yeah you know I had another student there looking. up to you like hey they're meeting with you every night they can go to you to. talk to you and I would meet with them at night and tell them hey you're this. is what you're fuckin up this is what you're doing good this is what you need. to be squared away or remediate them to let them know that hey you've been. fucking up this whole this whole day so I definitely definitely grew during. that that one class and then after that point the rest of the class I was there.

I was there for another six seven classes it definitely carried with me. throughout would you say I mean out right off the bat maybe this came later. maybe I didn't come at all but would you say there is uh is there any specific. common denominator that you're looking for and the guys that are coming through. the training I'm looking for that strong why that's strong why why they want to.

do it yeah and everyone has their own and there's not some blanket statement. that's gonna be good enough but everyone has their own reasons why but it has to. be for me what I saw a lot of it wasn't about the job it was more about I just. want to do buds or I just want to try challenge yeah that was it I was like. the sole focus in the INA in itself it is a challenge. yeah you should want to complete buds that but that's just a stepping stone to.

becoming a Navy SEAL that's just not that's not the end-all be-all and I. found a lot of the students didn't really know why the hell they were there. vice just being there just because they saw it online or you know they woke up. one day and started to prepare six months or less than that for buds yeah. and yeah they met the standards to get there but that's it you know just. because you can pass a CO PSD doesn't mean you're gonna make it through and it. does it and honestly when you have a week I tell these guys people all the.

time if you have a week Y or that trickles down in your motivation. everything you're gonna get weeded out quick that Y is not gonna hold up. against all the demands that especially first phase requires of you yeah that's. that's going to get in and out of your mind quick so if you're if you don't. want to be a seal and do the fucking job downrange but you know when I was there. too many people still going overseas you know it kind of died down there yeah. died down right when I got back because our last point I finished in 2013 and.

then we're slowly kind of removing guys from Afghanistan. especially the team guys you know so barely anyone was going there when I was. instructor so I don't think they maybe just didn't have a clue or didn't really. think about it but again this is not a blanket statement for every student but. for the people that quit or I saw lack of performance and when I specially when. I was a proctor and spoke to him it was that it kind of all boiled down to that.

it wasn't like all my legs hurt I'm tired it was like I always out there why. the hell are you even here makes sense is there as much as we eat our own and. we do eat our own we're probably the best out of it out of all the all the. other branches which I don't necessarily think is a fucking good thing but at the. same token we're also extremely fucking tight net and we have each other's back.

on deployment we might not I might not like you I might not want to be around. you but when you're on deployment things change and you have to have that fucking. teamwork so as an instructor do you teach that or is that something that you. think that guys come to the table with it's just like in their heart it comes. that I think guys show up with that they come to the table with that kind of.

mentality already that's why they're there that's what kind of drop part of. the reason why I probably drove them to the program mm-hmm there's we don't give. them no PowerPoint on being a team player teamwork it's just it's driven. into them like right away even before they even phase up to first phase it's. like you're in Bo crews you're in a class you're part of a team your part of. it you need to work together otherwise you're gonna fail you know so that the. program doesn't inherently and then we're there to reinforce it and make.

sure that that standard is held when you have guys that show up that aren't team. players and a lot of times these are your division one types. Division one athletes Olympic athletes sometimes it's guys from other branches. that are just cry and the fucking runs crushing the swims. they're the top performers but and then they want to gloat and they want to be.

fucking praised for how well they're performing but they're not a team player. how do you is it hard to get those guys to quit do you try to get him to quit. I've always seen it kind of just like you said the program kind of takes care. of its takes yeah you know takes care of itself how did how do those guys wind up. washing out I think the majority they do wash out the program will expose them.

and then so will the class to be honest with you because they see right through. that shit and they're not even the class leaders and the bokor leaders they may. be in charge may not be you know even they may be just the lower ranking but a. d1 athlete or something or maybe an officer but even still they're gonna get. exposed and they'll be oust by the by the class pretty quickly when I see when. I was instructor we touched on it that social pressure and if you're not a part.

of the team you're gonna be quickly cut out of the team yeah cuz it and that. happens quick too and then instructors will kind of help reinforce out as well. we hope they we help hey what's up with this guy you know what you use and do. something about it talk to the class leader maybe his bow crew leader or. maybe he's an officer we talked to the class oh I see to talk to him so there's. ways to expose that if we see because maybe he'd be crushed and passing every.

test but again he's standing up because he's not being a part of the team he. thinks he's above the rest those things you could see quickly and buds little. discrepancies and people even as an instructor yeah do you think you see it. faster as an instructor as you do as a student out this class would see it. before us okay yeah the the his own boat crew would definitely see it before us.

because in those those occasions that the. arrogance that entitlement you know may not show because he could be passing. tests he could be passing all the runs a swim so he could kind of slip by a. little bit because he's performing just on a performance standard but as soon as. we start doing team evolutions the boats the logs Rockport and surf passes etc. that's when people like that start showing okay he's not putting out he's.

just in the same position all the time he's not moving holding his weight he's. not shifting like for the boats boats on heads like number two spot which is. directly in the middle of the boat the heaviest spot where all the water goes. kind of rest in the center and it bows too so all the weight kind of centers in. the boat he'll never go to that position or if he's on the log he'll never go to. the end of the log where all the weight lies everyone tries all the turns or.

people who don't want to put out don't want to be part of the team go to the. center where they could pretend like they're carrying something yeah because. everyone else in the end is carrying the weight so there's they know they find. out these little tricks that we know of the instructors see this we see it all. the time and we pick up on it because this we see. the same faces in the class we'll see it too but we notice the same exact faces. the same spot every time yeah how do you deal with that as an instructor do you. do you give them like a little extra game extra tension extra benefit oh yeah.

to entice them to ring the bell we're getting some extra motivation yeah. definitely that if we notice something during the evolution will shift them to. the spot where we think it's the toughest we log them in front of the. entire class humiliate him no no not humiliate okay we would tell him if he. was doing what I was just described we would tell him to go back to the. position to the two spot at the end of the lock and stay there okay and you're.

gonna stay there until you either quit or you start putting out for your boat. crew more often than not they tend to fall out yeah or start collapsing. they're all tired boat crew because they're holding their weight and. everyone else starts caring more more tired just like a snowball effect. everyone starts dying off so I I've always been like really curious about. like you get these guys sometimes ice and I never was you know an instructor.

so this is why I'm so curious is you get these guys that they just can't fucking. hang they don't put out the bow crew is basically you know carrying them through. hell week especially and nobody seems to be able to force these fuckers to quit. and but they do wind up disappearing so if you got a guy and you're an. instructor who he's not cutting it his boat crews suffering he's not a team.

player he's hanging on by a thread because he just won't ring the fucking. bell like how does he like disappear we is pretty easily actually for we just. won't write him up performance wise you just performance drop him right drop him. oh shit he's over a series of evolutions not just one time yeah but over a series.

of evolutions over a couple of days maybe a week of just not performing or. hacking it after being warned done and we just pulled from the class okay. sometimes people do squeak by though that being said you know but yeah. performance drop okay it would be the way to get we get rid of these guys I. have another question - I've never actually met a buds quitter I don't know.

if you have this - but everybody seems to get oh yeah medical dropped you know. I mean I've met a ton of buds quarters but nobody ever admits that they only. say oh I've been med dropped and I know when I was going through buds they would. actually give they would give him a choice like well you know would you like. to be med dropped and is that is that how that goes you just tell them huh. yeah you don't have to bring it just no okay nope if.

a student clearly just wants to do our or drop drop on request he has to ring. the bell okay cut and dry but if it's for a medical it's the only reason he's. gonna get med dropped if it's for a severe medical issue I'm talking severe. because right now they at least when I was there my experience has a very good. medical system there and they'll rehab you up you know that will rehab the. student back to full health and put them back in the class if he injured stress. fractures or whatever that was like kind of induced because of the training.

they'll rehab you up and get you back in the class if your performance dropped. your performance dropped it's not like hey do you want just to write down a mid. drop you know you really got performance dropped or you do hard and we just wrote. down you got med dropped no way yeah you quit you quit I think it and I've. come across that to myself they're lying they're just just straight up just they. don't want to admit to themselves or others that they just quit just a. flat-out liar it's flat-out liar and I have met a couple guys where they.

approached me like it no I quit or they just straight up and those are far for. you in between but I respect that more than yeah you know I don't hold it. against them I don't give a shit but it's not for everyone yeah it's not for. everyone but if you have your straight up that those people who do that just. straight liars so they're lying to themselves but because we don't give a. shit yeah I'm not a ton of meds ops I've never met a quitter that's kind of funny. let's dive into the infamous hell week you went through it I went through it.

when you go back as an instructor and you see what these guys are going. through in hell week and and you've already done it I mean does it does it. look as bad as when you're going through it does it look worse does it look the. same it allows an instructor it's like that behind the curtain look yeah but it. definitely looks worse as a student yeah as an instructor it's not that bad but.

it's by no means has a change it's tough as hell but. I don't know when I look I could hardly remember when I looked back think back. at my hell week they did how they remember some of evolutions. yeah destructor Ivan I can remember because I just work at tons of them but. working him as an instructor so I remember everything would you say that. was your favorite evolution to work as an instructor camp surf camp surf I came.

surfing we call the camp surf is like Wednesday night so midweek kind of. Wednesday night dudes made it because that following day is like messing. around and doing around the world who you're done but camp surfs like middle. night by the old course build this huge fire pit and then huge pit right next to. it where all the students lie and it's like we make a little stage and they. tell us jokes and their jokes shit we send with the surf zone laugh at him and.

if they're good let him go stand by the fire for a couple minutes warm him up. and kind of the whole class will go through and then we'll punish him. occasionally we had a tradition where he brought him food punished him how if. they'd fallen asleep mm-hmm if I could wake him all upset him to surf nil and I. surf hit after surf it up just sort of hit that's the worst thing in hell week. yeah we would just do hundreds of hit the surf hit the surface or I mean these. guys are just back and forth back and forth back and forth and that water's.

freezing asks how freezing ask them it's a tiny 50s yeah. mid 50s at night summertime it's a little bit warmer I would say six little. like low 60s to mid sixties even then whether it's summer winter doesn't. matter because we just keep you in the water longer and trust me you're gonna. freeze just as much if you frozen no wonder time even in the summer yeah. you know like you watch discovery watch you know all the Hollywood class and the.

documentaries and you read the books and now they see all the pictures on social. media and stuff but these guys watching Discovery Channel they they see they see. guys rolling around in the surf and carrying logs and carryin boats but what. they don't what they don't see is is the shit that you can't see they. you know as an instructor and and you find out real fast as a student like the.

chafing from the sand and in your armpits on your groin and your junk and. you know from the sand rubbing back and forth and that dries and I feel like the. instructors know it dries and that's camis are like stuck to the side of your. sack and as soon as the class is dry it's like hey we're gonna go for a run. as soon as you run those pants are crusted to that chafing and it rips the. skin right off everything and then so that burns like hell and then it's hey.

get your ass back in the water and then you're thrown an open wound into the. water and Ardie guys I mean do you guys take do you realize you remember that. shit when you were going through do you know that's going on what the class oh. yeah I know we know what's going on because it's happening when I was a. student I knew was going on because I was living it so it was the class some. got it worse than others and like I said when we every morning they get mad.

checks so we they get seen by doctoring if it's horrible they'll get it treated. although get it bandaged but again as instructors we're not holding them. training because we know some students have chafing somebody have it way worse. than others I mean I haven't seen students there were literally covered in. chafed arms armpits chest waist groin legs. I mean look like they just fell off a motorcycle in the street I mean it's. horrible how bad some people get affected some people get affected more. than others I don't know why but it doesn't we don't want to alter training.

because students are experienced and burn pains if anything that's just part. of the process and hey man you can't handle that and get out of here yeah I. got a burning sensation on my groin yeah well yeah welcome to the SEAL team. welcome I think it's just it's part of the process and welcome to this yeah. inhale week is there a specific evolution where guys start dropping off.

immediately is or is it always random like is it is it break out when you're. breaking them out of the time as a law BTW is it or or it's not. breakout to be honest we don't lose a lot of guys if we're gonna lose a lot. only time we ever lose right when how week starts is before it even kicks off. because we lock them down into a a tent or a room before hell we kicks off like. three hours prior then we'll get some stragglers that would just walk up a.

ring out before how we keep it because they can't handle the stress and not. even do anything they're just watching a movie laid up eating so we'll get some. stragglers but it's not until maybe that night and we're doing based or boats on. heads running all over buds compound and then across the street to the dry side. running all over there and then maybe doing also another one's steel pier oh. you call it which we just the whole evolution is this all about freezing the.

students yeah just a mental methyl gut checked what. happens when a student gets hypothermia is that end to the evolution or is that. end of the evolution for that specific student depends on the severity but it's. just that this the evolution continues on we just pull him out okay rewarm him. if we can if it's something we can deal with if it's severe then we'll with. their hand me let's driving back to the clinic but uh nine times out of ten we. could just handle it on the spot get a quick temp warm him up put a.

blanket around him dry them off beanie code etc for a little while which I feel. is like the worst thing because we warm him up and then as soon as he's good to. go like he's coherent he's back to normal he's like all cozy and falling. asleep or like hey wake the fuck up go ahead to surf get your ass back out. there start training if you want to be here yeah would you say the majority of. the quarters come from the first night see the first yeah first 24 hours yeah.

first 24 hours 24 to 32 hours say you get the majority by the middle end of. the middle of week and then Wednesday night you have you pretty much have what. you're gonna have at the end of hell week yeah whether someone gets hurt then. you get some but as far as quitters are concerned pretty much stop Wednesday. night going to Thursday morning when hell weed is secure it as an instructor. do you and you're looking at 20 guys out of 150 who just made it through what's.

only what three or four fucking weeks in do you feel any sense of pride for those. individuals that have gutted that out as an instructor looking looking at them. and knowing what they're getting ready to go to now oh yeah definitely a huge. accomplishment on their end and they've earned a level of respect at least how I. viewed it and then other structures did too when I was there and it kind of. proved to me that there that for one they want to be there for two they're.

ready to get trained up until that point now we could start we had the core guys. that want in this class I want to be here because that we just they just. passed the most grueling part of selection now it's time to kind of put. them to the test other ways but we have a solid foundation of the guys that I. want to be here he's not gonna give me quarters after that very very rare yeah. it's mostly just performance or medical issues but that it's definitely a level.

respect and they've proved to us that they're ready to be trained after a. whole week it becomes and I don't wanna word this wrong but it's a little bit of. pressures off you just made it through you know the harder it is the hardest. evolution and buds in my opinion and it is a night and day difference coming. from hell week and two into post hell week you know one day you're wearing a.

white shirt you graduate whole week you're a brown shirt and then you get a. little bit more respect at least when I was going through you get a little bit. more respect is it hard to like switch that mindset as an instructor or is it. still like that no it's still like that you do get a. little more of a level of respect from the instructors because like I said. after that we the training kind of shifts they break up into squat their. own squads and we start kind of building that platoon mindset and I actually try.

and start teaching them kind of some core skills and being the seal. but that's a real fine line though because sometimes students take it a. little too far like they've been made it they're fucking they're good to go but. then we quickly crush that if they're getting a little too arrogant yeah so. I've seen that happen a lot with classes you know they finish Hellwig they think. they're looking good to go they made it at the brown shirt or fucking on cloud.

nine but we squash it they never happen again it's usually the Proctor's that. sniff through that shit nice and they hammer it you're looking at one I got. squashed but you know and looking at these guys as they're going through I. mean you always have in the in the back of your mind you might be you might be. with that guy that you're instructing in I mean fucking what you're in combat.

taking fire engaging the enemy and that's always in the back of your mind. have you ever worked with any of the guys you put through buds when you went. back to the team yeah I worked as a couple how was that relationship it was. good I mean it was definitely knowing them when an instructor it was different. dynamic but I don't be in some of them out there LP oh yeah so it was actually. a good relationship it wasn't uncomfortable alright because but at.

first they saw me as like an instructor when they got to the team and in my. platoon so they already had that mindset like holy shit you know that's. instructor Kennedy but that quickly faded when I just set the tone of hey. your new game your teammate you know I'm your LP oh but but it didn't it wasn't a. negative thing at all I should kind of liked it was kind of it. was kind of really cool to see them there and buds progression their.

progression now they're actually with me and actually the team doing the job so. it was cool to see that process that's why I liked first Faisel that's why I. wanted to go to first faced with a growth yeah through all that this that. the meat of the selection and then the outcome at the end so. that's what that's what the reason why I like that phase long I mean shit it's. pretty fucking cool I mean you're I mean you're basically like the gatekeeper of.

the community in a first phase instructor or the you know the biggest I. mean that's the biggest hurdle yeah being an instructor and going back when. these guys graduate buds and s qtd I mean because you're part of that entire. pipeline in at least a little bit do you feel like these guys are ready once they. finish buds or sqt yeah yeah I did ago yeah I feel like. they're ready the end product is solid well even while I was instructor I know.

today it is - so the program is what it is for a reason and it produces really. good team guys that's my opinion and that's what I've seen and that's what I. know is true but the outcomes great here and there you know get some stragglers. that get to the team and don't perform and they kind of look back and like what. the fuck what buds why'd you let this guy slip through but that's small you.

know that happens sometimes we can't really we do our best to mitigate it but. you can only do so much is there anything you would like to see. implemented in buds that you think will prepare guys more for showing up to the. team or prepare them more for like the mindset they make a better seal is there.

anything you would like to see implemented in the bud program as an. instructor that would make a better team guy and end result yeah I would say for. the leadership let the the instructors do their job which will produce a better. result as for a student because you give them restrictions they're not going to. build an enforce the standards which then trickles down to they're not going. to have the right mindset going forward they're not they're not doing well.

with the teamwork you know that meant team mentality etc mental toughness so. when your hands are tied from the top that's going to trickle. down into the class because that you're the class is a direct reflection of the. instructing staff mm-hmm and how much they uphold the standards and all the. the physical aspect and everything else so what I do like at the very what I was.

there at the very end they did implement the mentors I think they need to hammer. that a little bit home more they assigned instructors they split the. class up into squads and they assign an instructor to squad as like a mentor oh. really so they kind of hammer down go full force on that that way you build. relationships with these guys and I got to do it one time because they start it. was a fairly new thing but those guys that I mentored were later on in my.

platoon working for me oh sure so I thought it was a really cool tool you. really get to like get in the mindset they could ask you questions and you're. actually out there teaching them kind of the fundamentals of being a seal and. building out relationship you know it paid dividends which I saw throughout. the rest of the phases because like you said you know you're gonna be working. with majority of these guys yeah most instructors that they leave buds and go. on to the team or something gonna be working with these guys so you need to.

have and and you get to understand where they're at to mentally you know are they. in the right mindset do they have the right characteristics you know whether. we that's how we get to know these people you know some psych exam they. took before is not like a good very good marker whether they're gonna be a good. team guy or not they're still trying to figure out how to find the best. candidates today yeah I still can't and I don't think there ever will but being. more intimately involved and like knowing the guys that's gonna help.

getting to know actually who they are as a person what's inside their who they. are then you understand like why they're here yeah that makes it or they come. with you know what they used to do what do they in do why do you want to be a. seal you know what are you interested in doing. yeah and I think is a seal which I like the seal community like we're from. everywhere you know so many different backgrounds so many different. professions yeah that's what you come together is for just one purpose that's.

what I like this team's a lot one of the great aspects of it but they just hammer. home on that a lot more now I think they still are but just really focus on that. post I wake and the first phase I mean that's you know that's actually very. refreshing to hear that you're you as an instructor as a combat that are. comfortable with the product that's coming out of the training center and. showing up to the teams I mean that's like that's I mean shit that's all you.

can ask for you know there's a solid individual coming out of that pipeline. ready to fucking and go to work yeah 99% of them are freakin solid it's. the one percenters that mess up and then they make everybody look bad and that's. just how it's always been it's how it's always will be. yeah as soon as someone messes up then everybody looks bad then they start. spotlights like what kind of product you've given us when one turd shows up.

into the team not performing when the 15 other team new guys are that showed up. we're doing solid and all sudden we're producing bad people yeah it's just a. numbers game and probability at that point but like I said we going back. again we always so quick to talk about the negative or bring that about. you know advice you know hey let's handle it internally so that's going. back again that's what I've learned as an instructor like just take a bigger. picture like let's get to know these dudes and I'll leave you a lot of.

problems in the future a lot of issues when they get to the team I don't leave. liberty etc like their personal time get in trouble with the law etc like all. these little things probably could have gotten caught going through the program. knowing where this guy is what he's been doing maybe has all these fucking red. flags throughout buds like drinking etc which there has been mmm. so that could have been found a lot earlier for the show to the team causing. a scene yeah so I'm still moving along you finish up.

your time at Budds and then you go back to the teams what team did you go back. to for again it went back to four and where were you going this time this time. I got assigned a three troop so I knew it was SOUTHCOM at the time it was one. troop was going to Africa - as you come and three tree with SOUTHCOM so it's. fourth team falling back to its roots SOUTHCOM was this AO because all CENTCOM.

kind of died off East Coast teams are not going there at all the most kinetic. place was Africa and even that wasn't nearly as kinetic as Afghanistan when I. went there so I end up going to Colombia did my LP Oh tour and what's this. outcome how was that deployment I liked Alice it was a really good deployment I. enjoyed it it was very very different than the first two I experienced I mean.

it was a little night and day difference yeah working with the embassy other you. know host nation partner forces a lot of FID those you know no foreign internal. defense we're just training the local Special Forces a lot that was the main. kind of main gig there we're looking working with a lot of interagency there. was DEA mmm CIA there so we worked alongside of them we help train their.

forces so a lot of joint the joint advise and assist ops. what kind of ops where they encountered route or not counter drive count all of. them were counter narcotic and local within like their city they utilize. their military Special Forces to do basically police work okay in the city. so it's a little different dynamic than what investigation - I've work or under. work or as DA's I would go in and I'll have a target and like hey we're gonna.

go and arrest this guy okay so they're hidden houses they're hidden houses yeah. yeah with them yeah we're part a block over in the street okay your. command and control your yeah we did a advising and assisting them we're not up. there on the train or anything we're just sitting in our up armored Vic a. block over doing overwatch okay make sure everything goes smooth are you.

proud of these guys you get attached to them towards the end I did yeah we. helped also help develop their whole selection process as well for their. special forces unit so I myself being like the lead lead guy down there in. that part of Colombia had a lot invested in this and I was proud of the the. product cuz we helped stand up their course which produce their quote unquote. operators yeah so and I was pretty pleased on how motivated and effective.

it was and how much time and effort they can they put into it they took it. seriously so this is like a whole new this is a completely different mission. than what you're used to being overseeing foreign nationals operate in. their own country and training them what to do and how to do everything and it. sounds like you really enjoyed that and it was a nice change from yeah was Elise. it was definitely an a complete 180 I did a little bit of fid when I was in.

the Middle East just a little bit but this one was that was kind of the main. focus to give us access and placement in that country regardless and that's. that's what seals do I mean that's what we do majority of the job weren't out. war that's what team guys do so we got to have it as important part of the. mission guys don't like it but um it needs to be done we did a lot of that. but I enjoyed my time there I mean it was being that a Oh was pretty.

comfortable Columbia so and that was your last deployment I was my last one. and how long after your last deployment did you leave decide to separate out of. the community so I finished that deployment and then went to trade at the. Training Command for two years Oh. I end up being I made chief and I being the chief of Salle Special Operations.

during combat just another it's just a training division in the big umbrella of. all the divisions just I just taught was in charge of one of them and I did that. for two years spent a lot of time in Kentucky that's where our training was. out there so so mount for you civilian types is basically urban warfare it's. moving as a team small unit tactics in and out of urban environments downtown.

cities stuff like that mm-hmm heavily focus on that leadership skills. communication we did a lot of shooting CQC yeah both quarters combat that was. kind of the culmination of the work up for guys the assaults block now whatever. all the team guys look forward to is the best blog I'll get all the team guys. want to do assaults you know I want to do CQC oh no shoot on do DA's so that's.

what that block is but so I learned a lot I learned to have a lot of you know. things about being a seal and new skills sharpen my skills learn a lot more. leadership stuff just big kind of bigger pictures kind of staff stuff being in. that role being like a chief of a cell you know but it was two years I mean for. our generation that block of training CQC hitting houses urban movement all.

that kind of stuff I mean that is the I think without a doubt the single most. important training block that we have with what's going on in the world today. and I'd love to hear your take on I mean you've been out you've done it three. times now you were a buds instructor now your teaching and your sin you're seeing. the final product do what they want to do and what they do best what does that.

look like from the outside kind of looking in I mean are you like holy shit. like these guys are fucking good or we've got a lot of work to do I think. it's the majority are pretty solid but again we need more time needs to be. spent on it we don't spend enough time they they took away a week from the. training the trainings three weeks long sock was salt blocks is two weeks long.

so a total of five weeks total assault block but more time is needed because. that is like the meat of the skill set yeah and if we're focusing more of. attention on diving or mobility or we're taken away if they people higher up see.

that may be more of a priority and they're gonna take away they took. they've taken away time from an assault block because they don't see that it's. necessary we need to focus our efforts may be on more their time were you. impressed with the product coming out of that the teams I had mix I had a mixed. feelings sometimes no shit yeah I think it was I could name the. teams I'm not going to be named the teams that I liked that really impressed. me but I can the teams that were like like they need more work they just need. more time yeah they just didn't do it enough they didn't know if what happens.

is that they just don't do enough prep work prior to the assault block on their. own time okay so they don't take it upon themselves to go rent out the kill house. to do runs with older guys teaching new guys and just doing those reps before. they get there to set themselves up for success and it shows you know let's move. on towards transition and I mean there's all this preparation that goes into. going to combat doing the job right making sure you're a team player all.

that stuff and when I was in there was no preparation for guys that are leaving. that kind of a job that kind of you know the things that you see and the things. that you do or zero preparation for it and. what do you think about that and how was your separation were you nervous yeah I.

was nervous I knew about a year out that was I was gonna make the decision so I. I've already have stuck to what I felt was right for me so I knew I was gonna. get out but as far as like knowing what to do are people helping me none I mean. very limited other than I really had to seek out and more finatus there's people. outside the community not inside yeah because if I told the first time ever I. told my leadership I mean job out drop to the floor like.

what the hell are you doing you know it's more like and then afterwards I. felt more like hey they're like hey fuck you like you leaving yeah so that stigma. is still floating around there it's just kind of it what I've noticed is based on. person person it's not in general but but about a year out I prepped try to. line everything up myself get as much information as I can at the time I was. thinking I was like really going back and forth what I wanted to do with my.

life after the teams and before we get into that before we get into after. you're gone I heard you saying in another podcast about you talked about. going and seeing psychiatrists and Doc's on your way home from deployment we. didn't have that when I was in and even if we did I don't know that any of us.

would have opened up maybe it would have helped us maybe it wouldn't have do you. what kind of questions were they asking did they seem genuine were they there to. help did you open up to them the ones post every deployment I didn't really. feel they were genuine is more of a check in the block okay because we after. the Afghan deployments both of them we stopped in a town to take a weekend. break before it was in the States we just took a weekend break and then we.

had him every morning we wake up me like a certain type of doctor and it was more. of a check in the block for them like hey you feelin good check. oh he's alright get out of here mm-hmm it wasn't until like I was. actually getting out now they have programs set in place they were a. concussion clinic yeah so they have like these clinics set up for guys especially. special operators that they really dive deep and get full-body like what's going. on with you open it up they've you know everything from head to toe they do and.

honestly it's a really good program and if they take it seriously now because in. the past anything have two shits about this stuff. yeah it's they don't even think about it nor pay attention to it so nowadays it's. more prevalent so they did I went through that saw the psych a handful of. times at first I was I don't think I ever really opened up I mean I talked a. little bit the beginning the first couple times I went no I didn't at all I.

only went five times but the last three times I talked a little bit I opened up. some I progressively opened up a little bit more but by the time I was already. out you know I was always like front sight focus on I wanted to get this done. it was part of the transition to go through this medical exam it was like a. month-long yeah so I needed to get that done before I got out but that being. said I felt that did help me though because part of that program to see all.

these different doctors and talk to them it did help me and there was a whole. other I do got to do a physical thing for physical rehab plan got to see. chiropractors massage therapy float tank therapy should they really stepped it up. yeah so that's a whole nother month long too so there are these programs to. really kind of before you get out to kind of just get your head right yeah I.

felt like it did for me and help it got my head right a little bit can we back. on level ground and kind of kept me focused on my next move because before. that I was like I thought I knew what I was going to do but we'll get to that. but it's like I'm really grateful that they have that now you got out. I know you tried out for a law enforcement agency I'm not sure which. one you didn't make it and I want you to tell us a little bit about who you were.

trying out with him why you think maybe you didn't make it so I applied for the. FBI I would say damn near a year before I got out me and a couple other guys did. about I would say about the last 10 months I went through the entire not the. entire cuz I didn't make it but three-quarters of the process and I. thought this is it this is what I want to do great job do.

good things sir my country still just at a different capacity so I was really. stoked about this I thought I was gonna be the exception to the rule I've told. you this about having issues transitioning I thought was a big boom. just transferred right over like get out get right back into a federal job simple. I try to time it just right so when there's no lag time whatsoever I went. through all the process and it was after the background check all the background. stuff I got a letter saying no so I I it had something to do with the background.

for me probably the polygraph don't know why they don't tell me yeah they don't. tell you there is more I just took it did all the background check paperwork. everything and simply I didn't know until about a month after actually got. out and moved to California actually why I drove to California just to visit mmm.

no intentions on staying because I still had the foresight if I made it like I'm. good I'm gonna get this job cuz I thought at that point cuz I crushed. everything up to that point and I thought my polygraphing background was. pretty solid it was solid but then I got a email saying nope okay it was a formal. thing I came in with a set but it was very vague was like hey you didn't meet. the requirements etc you know so it's always interesting to me because so many.

guys from Special Operations community I mean there just aren't there finished. jobs that translate director I mean there's barely any to what our. experiences and what we can offer and a lot of guys seem to flock to the federal. side of law enforcement or other government agencies and you know state. and local law enforcement agencies and it seems like it's the same story over. and over these guys get out just like yourself they apply for some type of law.

enforcement organization and then they get the letter that says they're not. they don't have what they're looking for yeah some bullshit which I find really. odd you know you're you're a shooting instructor now you teach tactics and you. teach law enforcement don't you find that kind of odd that so many guys come.

out they apply to law enforcement agencies the law enforcement agency. tells them hey thanks but you're not good enough and then six months later. they're fucking calling you up wanting you to come and train their top bucking. tier guys at that agency to do their job don't you find that a little odd yeah. it's mind blowing actually yeah and I didn't really think about it so I.

trained my first group of law enforcement but you're right it's like. it's unreal to me that they would pass up such my mind solid individuals that. would do good things for their community yeah so I don't know their agenda on. that one but again yeah fast forward today. I train cops all the time yeah but yet these even State Department say no. actually after that after I got that letter and I was like internally.

humiliated and shamed mmm cuz I was like a huge blow to my ego I didn't tell. anybody and at first I was out my dad's and he was standing right there and I. was like I didn't want to tell him I just and I was like. well here we go no go on this and I was like kind of like damn you know what. because I didn't have any plan at that time you put all your eggs in one basket.

yeah we're going to work for after the I thought you're a shoo-in only to find. out according to them you're not good enough and I heard you on a podcast also. I think it was right before that happened maybe you they asked you about. transition and your you were like oh yeah it's a fucking breeze and now. you've got nothing no plan nothing going on you've been denied I mean you're.

living with your dad yeah it was horrible. in your fucking 13-year veteran Navy SEAL that was embarrassed I mean I cuz I. didn't have anywhere to go I moved out of my place in Virginia I. left some things there but I brought the majority of my you know I had some stuff. here I just drove across country to spend some time with him I was my. intention and I got the letter say no go then I was there my dad's living there I.

was living my dad's like an 31 years old just did almost 13 years service seal. had everything going for me and now I'm like now what so as it's pretty tough. like mentally for me mm-hmm so I was like scrambling how tough on a. scale of 1 to 10 probably one of the hardest things I probably 10/10 way up. there as far as mentally yeah but just like ego just because I thought I had my.

shit together yeah I like to think I still do but at the time I was like damn. like I'm I never would have thought in a million years I'd be like a 31 living in. my dad's yeah I didn't live there very long but I had to live there because I. know where to go yeah and I had no job so and I had no. idea what the hell I was gonna do so I was living off savings I.

money but I was living off my savings just from working some I doubt I was in. the service but again me being Who I am I was stressing yeah and again I applied. for another local law enforcement I don't know why I did that what I did. because I was like what's the quickest thing I could do here applied for the. Orange County Sheriff's didn't I didn't go through the process I just didn't.

even show up I got invited to do an interview and all that I just didn't. even show up like fuck that I just in my gut I did gut feeling just wasn't for me. so I just didn't go but now I am now but that that little I. would say two-month window from April May and a March April into May was tough. because that's when I was stay with my dad yeah and I didn't have my shit I. don't even know what the hell I was in you so what did that lead to that led to.

fast forward in my business now but one reason being is I was just there you. know one day it was like hey my dad had some friends there were some gun gun. owners he's doing forever one's a firefighter Dylan just works alongside. him and they wanted to go shoot they knew I was in town I'd know him too but. so the arts go take me to your range went out there with him had a blast shot.

all their guns and I end up just teaching him just a couple things here. and there like how'd it hold it properly because they were all asked up just the. basics so we had fun I think literally that night I came back because before. this I interviewed a couple jobs what other jobs in an interview with I. interviewed for another instructor job no I worked a security job for like a. week and I fucking quit that and this other instructor job for firearms.

training that was another that end of the day I just didn't like it mhm and. after that range day I went with my friend my dad his friends. I was like I could do this I kind of like I don't know I just had like this. epiphany like slapped my face like I always love to enjoy shooting I mean. know if you ask me a team guy who doesn't fucking enjoy shooting because. that's what we do you know we shoot all the damn time but I really enjoy it you.

know it's a really good stress reliever for me but and also like being a buzz. instructor that being a teacher to mentor I that gourami - I like teaching. people do things and watch them grow and a better person etc new skill set so. that on top of that experience it kind of like hey I could do that I wouldn't. make a business of this you know I can do this on my own I don't need to go. work for someone else who's already doing it my time and effort into that or.

some other company I could focus my hundred percent of my attention energy. onto something of my own which I felt way more comfortable about yeah I just. wait I don't know I just because I also wanted that freedom to that's part of. right what are the reason I got out to Friedman oeuvre you know building to do. what I want set my own schedule just have a regular life I have a family have. a family yeah a good relationship so working for someone else for eight to.

ten hours a day in an office or wherever or standing doing security I was like no. yeah yeah it was no way I tried it yeah I tried it for one of those jobs for a. week and I said I'm out because I just it was actually a pretty good job but as. at the end of the day I was like hell no I couldn't do it so the business idea. dawned on me and I just went full force into it 100% that night literally just.

me my dad brainstorm because he he started his own business too and he has. a successful one so he on top of that meant again that's worded today now he's. sitting there mentor me on business - yeah so it was kind of cool kind of. funny to see how all the things worked out like that but then I've ended this. company coming to have now so I've been full force with this so Kennedy. defensive shooting is born and it's a brand-new company just a baby.

right now I mean I think that's what pulls a lot. of guys out of the the darkest part of the transition which a lot of times and. you know leads to suicide addiction all that kind of stuff did actually before. did you deal with any of that before living the last year like when I.

was that trade it part of the reason why I got out because I mean I was single no. intention I was like hunter percent focus on work and every time I was out. drinking all the time when I was home even on trips I would be out fucking. drinking every weekend I just saw where I was going while I was still only like. the last year and a half or so in my personal life I didn't want that to. continue so I knew I didn't just separate myself because I was all I. cared about was work and then when I didn't work I just was home partied all.

the time I drank I didn't yeah rarely occasionally I wasn't like a. fighter but I would just go out and booze all the time you know and then. just fucking wake up with hangovers every fucking day three or four days a. week and I was like the fuck am i doing yeah no knocking anywhere just just. repetitive and then rinse repeat rinse repeat rinse repeat every trip yeah and. it just it took a toll too for sure and I saw where I was going and where I.

would go to because if I stayed in I would just probably continue to do that. yeah and just push kind of I had some friends. by just relationships if I wanted a family probably would have happened. because I would just cared about work because I was always so fucking nervous. to like be gone yeah I always wanted to be there and be that guy like I would. let everyone else go I won't even come home for like holidays. cuz I was like I didn't want to leave holy shit that was like I just want to.

stay so do you think that your business kind of jury out of that cycle it did it. gave me say they give me a purpose because once. I got that that bug you know Donna me I was like all in front sight focus on it. pulled me out of that rut you know I was still at the time still living my dad. you know but I was like all right run it got the name started doing all the.

backend stuff stablish the website and just kind of just building somewhat of a. business foundation so I actually get out there and get clients it's a new. addiction yeah it doesn't being a new addiction. for me and now it is still addiction you know but I mean a lot of guys sorry go. ahead it did bring me out of that hole like you said yeah that's before that I. was literally just sitting there my dad's house like totally my my fucking. thumbs like no purpose no no reason even be there just like I'm just sitting here.

cuz I'm a bum yeah it's it's almost you know I see a cycle and this is my own. theory it could be just a bunch of shit but you know what I see what draws a lot. of guys out of that downward spiral which a lot of times doesn't end well. you know you get the addiction to adrenaline being a seal. you can't like just like we talked about you had over a hundred and eighty. fucking engagements you know in less than a year and you become addicted to.

that and then that addiction a lot of times I believe gets replaced with drug. addiction and alcohol which are also coping mechanisms and then just from my. own personal experience and watching guys like you and other close friends of. mine the business becomes the new addiction which pulls you out of the the.

drugs and alcohol a lot of in or adrenaline and I mean and you're fucking. crushing it now you're already trained in Huntington Beach SWAT team which is. incredible yeah that was a certain that was kind of a surreal experience for me. the city I grew up in now I'm training their SWAT team. so and those things season season officers to not young all them probably.

had six seven years on me yeah what do you what would you say your. most challenging thing is in business right now it's client acquisition yeah. getting new clients and just in content creation just constantly just and. growing developing new ideas for growth and I always I don't want to be stagnant. I don't want my sole purpose is to do in my business just to do private lessons.

yeah I want to be a little bit I want to be bigger than that and it can be I just. you have any idea what you'd like it to grow into I'd like to grow into more. we're in the works of developing some courses to expand outside of just. privates possibly doing group classes ten to fifteen people I had multi day. courses which I'm developing now with one of my close friends of mine and then. work more with law enforcement to I'd like to work with a lot more law.

enforcement maybe a little bit more heavy on law enforcement little less on. the civilian I got more fulfillment out of training the HP SWAT than I did you. know not it's just those in my mind people like that they need to learn the. skills mm-hmm that I had to offer because they don't get it enough you. know hands down any Department SWAT or not like they don't get to beyond the.

gun enough your other SWAT are you not or not but that's in my that's true you. know like I trained cops on their own dime they you know they come to see me. and pay a private lesson from with me not they're not getting the department. paying for it they're paying for out of pocket so focusing more on maybe I could. work with more departments and work with them yeah I mean that's definitely. understandable because turning and a law enforcement guy I mean he might I mean. shit he might put what you just taught them into or at least has a higher.

chance of putting what you just taught them into a real-world situation like. within a couple hours exactly and and I'm sure a lot of them probably do but. Walter Otis I know you got a flight to catch. is there anything else you would like to cover before we wrap this thing up I. think we touched it all again thank you and for your mentorship and I test your.

mentorship and advice to the majority of my success of my business in the. beginning and even to this day rather seriously so thank you oh you're welcome. thank you for coming and I don't think after the experience you just shared. with us I don't think you're gonna have any fuckin problem filling an open. enrollment course or finding private lessons or trying in law enforcement in.

any part of the country so guys check Travis out on Instagram what's your. handle you find me at Travis Kennedy 267 or Kennedy defensive shooting as well. and we're starting a YouTube channel up as well yeah YouTube channels like. Kennedy defensive shooting Facebook and then website as well as Kennedy. defensive shooting comm for all the information well I'll be sending. everybody I know over there so I just want to wish you the best of luck and I.

want to thank you for coming out and I know some of that stuff that you shared. is not fuckin easy to do and I just want you to know that me and the audience. really appreciates it and thank you for your service thank you brother. appreciate you inviting this it's been a true pleasure meeting you Jared.