Sarah Adams - CIA Targeter Exposes How Hamza bin Laden is Alive | SRS #81 Part 1

my next guest is a former CIA analyst. and. targeter who now currently works for the. US Department of Defense now originally. my goal with this episode was to expound. on the Benghazi episode with Mark G and. unpack some of the things that went on. behind the scenes where the ball was. dropped and to talk about what the. terrorists behind that attack are doing. now now we actually got a lot more than. that in this episode.

and some questions that are arising. especially very recently with the things. going on in Israel have been answered. one of those questions is are terrorists. coming up through our Southern border. well here's the answer yes I know that's. a shocker to some of you but Sarah my. next guest who's been tracking these. guys for many years is Now tracking them. coming up through our Southern. border.

that's what happens when you leave a. border wide open to a country who has a. lot of. enemies now we're going to have to deal. with this at some point. but if you get anything out of this. episode please like comment and. subscribe head over to Apple podcast and. Spotify please leave us a review ladies. and gentlemen I just want to point. something out. why is mainstream media not talking to.

people like my next. guest think about that nobody is more. relevant on this topic than her she's. tracking these guys coming up through. our border anyways those of you that. have been taking our content thank you. we see the reels you're making if you. want you can download tons of free. content link is in the description post. it everywhere monetize it make money all. we ask is that you tag the Shawn Ryan.

Show anyways patreon I love you ladies. and gentlemen without further Ado please. welcome Sarah Adams former CIA analyst. and targeter to the Shawn Ryan Show love. you all. [Music]. cheers Sarah Adams welcome to the Sha. Ryan show thank you great to be here so. we've. been batting back and forth for I think.

a little over a year now and then uh I. wanted to get Mark in here before I got. your interview we had Mark in last we. released his episode last week about. Benghazi and uh I really wanted to get. into some of the stuff that the Obama. administration had to do uh with the. with the teams that could have gone in. and helped um and you know a lot more. about that than Mark so I think you're.

the perfect person to kind of fill in. the gaps there but um and then on top of. that we got a whole bunch of other stuff. to talk about current Day stuff some of. your career at the agency but let me. give you a quick. introduction so Sarah Adams author of. Benghazi know thy enemy former CIA. officer Libyan crisis before during and. after the 911 attacks counterterrorism. analyst and targeter for the CIA senior. adviser on the select Comm committee on.

Benghazi so just for the audience real. quick can you go over the difference. between an analyst at CIA and a targeter. yeah I mean the most simple thing is an. analyst their day-to-day job is to. answer the questions policy makers give. so maybe a congressman will ask a CIA. what is happening with the oil. facilities in Libya for example and. they'll pull all the info together the. CI collected write it up and answer that.

question obviously they're most known. for answering questions to the president. the targeter was created it's a newer. position it was created around the time. I joined the agency um and it was to. bridge the gap between case officers and. analyst so it was supposed to be like an. operational node that took the best from. analysts took the best from targeters. and helped move operations forward so. the focus of it is to move operations. forward okay okay so I got a couple.

questions we have a subscription Network. on patreon and that's basically what. enables me to do this job and um so this. was a pretty good question from one of. our patrons um what was the moment that. made you realize that the government was. going to lie about what happened in. Benghazi how did this make you. feel was this a revelation to you or had. you seen similar things like this happen. before Benghazi sure there there's kind.

of like two big lies obviously to do. with Benghazi there was the one of the. fake protest narrative and then the one. of the fake that the GRS responded. immediately so the the GRS was our. Global Response staff so that's what Oz. was that was on your show previously and. they're the ones who went to Aid the. Ambassador after the attack happened um. that one I pretty much knew in real time. they were covering it up because um the. team lead um for the GRS and triple like. whispering to me when I arrived back in.

Tripoli after the attacks and I was like. okay this is already a hush hush thing. he told me it outside um I already had. the indication that the CIA was going to. cover that piece up the protest. narrative it was about a week after the. attacks we got the two um consulate. surveillance videos in so it was the. video from the state compound and then. the video from the CIA compound and we. obviously saw there was no protest which. nobody in country thought there's a. protest anyway no one in Libya believed.

there's a protest nobody in town. reported a protest but when we watched. the videos there was no protest so we. call headquarters and they said well. we're not going to change the narrative. until you bring us the videos and so. they said oh you need to curry them back. over we actually found a way to. digitally send them so we sent them. within 24 hours and they never changed. the narrative they didn't no so that's. when I realize okay the narrative is. what they want they don't actually care. if there's facts whether there's a. protest or not.

how did that make you feel oh I was. pretty angry and luckily our chief of. station at the time he agreed there was. no protest cuz there wasn't one it's so. strange in country we didn't argue about. a protest right nobody thought there was. a protest it was a weird DC thing we. didn't sit around arguing about a. protest you know we're doing our jobs. we're trying to find the attackers. trying to figure out who was involved so. he would write desense to like all the. the CIA would write all these reports. about the protest and he would send a. sense you know um chief of station. tripley does does not agree with this.

prce that there was not a protest so. that's really all we could do from the. field as you know cuz the field. sometimes gets overruled by what. headquarters thinks is the truth yeah. yeah you know you've been following you. you still continue to follow a lot of. these guys that were involved in the. attack and we're going to get into some. of that and and what the outcome was. with some of them I mean has there been. any. justice at all there's been a little bit. of Justice there there was some of our.

attackers killed in US drone strikes. only one of them was targeted for who he. was but he wasn't targeted to do with. Benghazi he was targeted to do with Isis. the other ones they targeted the wrong. group or they got lucky and got our guy. um the French did Kill the top three um. like North African Al-Qaeda members of. our attacks so we got a little bit of. Justice from them and then the Libyan. National Army killed um The Mastermind. of the CIA Annex piece of the attack and. the good part is he killed in a mortar. strike so um so we we kind of appreciate.

that nice good I for an eye right hey. take them out that way there's no other. way you could have taken him out. honestly yeah no kidding well hey before. we get too into the weeds and uh dive in. everybody always gets a gift oh thank. you so there you go. okay very nice and good it's all coffee. too cuz I had to confirm with you that. there was nothing with pot in any of. these. Y no PO there's some weird rumors.

everybody thinks wait wait you gave me. performance mushrooms I probably can't. do this oh no this is good stuff okay. this is these are these are legal. mushrooms but you have you heard a lot. of the benefits from mushrooms that have. been going on in the community a lot so. I did I did a psychedelic treatment it. was I got a ton of benefits from it ton. of Blackwater people have been doing. this yeah you know huge it's really. getting out there and so that kind of. got me into looking into the benefits of.

functional mushrooms and all that. stuff's from L superfood they have the. finest ingredients and uh yeah so mix. that with your coffee don't yeah I mean. I'm going to first sure Del I can have. mushrooms and then I'm going to mix it. in my coffee you are good to go with. that I promise thank you but uh it's all. about brain health here so that's why. that's why I give that out but um all. right so let's get into it you ready yep. all right so let's talk about about how.

you got into the agency what year did. you go I joined in 2006 and I have the. most boring route ever into the agency I. applied. online it can it works people yeah I um. it was the night before I defended my. thesis in um college and my thesis was. on the Kashmir region of India and. Pakistan and I was like why did I do a. thesis on this like where am I going to. get a job I had never even thought a CIA. even a day before then but it was the. only place I could think of to apply so.

that night I applied to the CIA and then. the rest is history how did you I. mean did you see him in a recruiting. event or anything nothing I seriously. was like like the next day I had to. defend my thesis so I had all my notes. and like I don't really like to prepare. for things as you probably learned in. the last day here um so I was just kind. of like not wanting to get things ready. for the next day and so my brain was. wandering off and then I was like what. am I going to do for a job job and then.

I was like who works cashmir and the. only thing I could think was the CIA so. I went online and plied that night um. and yeah that's how my life works that's. how I live my whole life so don't be. surprised by this this wasn't just cuz I. was in my 20s how long did it take him. to get back with you uh my first. interview was um the first week of. December it was super quick oh okay yep. so five weeks yeah you know it's funny I. get people asking me all the time online. how do I get in there how do I get into. the CIA and it's. it's like well did you look at the.

employment section on the website that. might be a good start they all think. it's like everybody gets recruited you. got to put an application. in did you did you put the application. in online no they have a website they do. have a website and it's priven it works. you might not work that well over there. if you haven't figured that out yet but. but anyway so we have I would like to. talk about.

2008 mhm in Mumbai so we're talking. about some drone strikes that happened. can you go into some of that stuff at. your first that was your first station. correct no so I was actually at. headquarters when Mumbai happened oh. okay so I had gone overseas at that. point I had been to Pakistan but I was. actually home in the states when Mumbai. happened um and you know this is. mentioned briefly in my book and that's. why it comes up so when Mumbai happened. it was really interesting as you can. imagine imagine um Congress reaches out.

to the CIA and they say what are you. going to do about this big event you. know hold on hold on let's go back y. let's what was the event in Mumbai so. Mumbai there was there was like um a. terrorist attack by lashari TBA that's a. Pakistani based terrorist group um they. did it at a few different locations um. in Mumbai which is you know like the. second largest city in India and they. did at like a hotel and you know it. killed a very large number of people and. so as you can imagine the CIA at the.

time had a lot of stuff going on in. Pakistan since that was the focus of the. global war on terror at the time and so. there was a lot of pressure then going. back on CIA like hey what are you going. to do about these attackers because the. Indians are saying it all emanated from. Pakistan and you know you're in Pakistan. and that's your focus and um you know. what are you going to do going forward. on this so I was on the team that. covered um I think I was the actually. only person on that that terrorist group. at the time I mean the Pakistani.

terrorist groups just don't get a lot of. focus um why is that I don't know I. think it's because they don't all do. things with Al-Qaeda okay so if they. then eventually join up with Al-Qaeda so. there is a really famous one named ilas. Kashmir and he I mean he was a bad guy. equally bad his whole career but then at. one point he said I'm going to start. doing my attacks with Al-Qaeda then he. became a talk Target and then I don't. think even lived a year you know because.

he then moved over to that realm and. Al-Qaeda is was our Focus okay you know. it's like Al-Qaeda Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda you know maybe TTP maybe. talipan and then the Pakistani Terror. groups were not even on the list okay. yeah so they they just weren't. prioritized at all um so what happened. is Congress then came to CIA and said do. something about it and um in my shop my. boss had decided to actually um just.

choose a random terrorist camp and say. it was lash taiba and have his carot a. drone strike on. it so what she did so the one negative. is and this is what I don't like when. stuff gets released like out into the. public and there's redactions and then. they assume it stuff right there's a lot. of garbage that comes in the ca as you. can imagine so we get a lot of reports. on locations and it's not the right. group and then we run it down and we.

find out the right group so there there. was garbage. reporting that they were at at that. place but they never were right we we. ran it down and we weren't but what she. wanted me to do is write up a report. with the garbage reporting to justify. the strike on the location so I refused. to and then I said I'll write up a. report so I wrote a whole report on why. every piece of that information was. wrong that they'd ever use that location. and I submitted it to her. um so I submitted to like on a Friday so.

the next week I went to a week of. training so you know most CA training is. offsite so I was offsite in a different. part of town um and it was the end of. that next week and and and I get I go. out to my phone we don't have phones in. the office and I have a message and it's. like you need to you need to see what's. being sent around and I go and she went. to another person on her team she. actually went to DOD detaily because she. thought she could get the Department of. Defense person to live because the CIA. person pushed back on her unfortunately.

and she wrote it up um for a a a. nomination to do a strike on the. location knowing all the facts were. wrong CU I had already sent out a week. before to the team and so it then I. think I saw it Thursday night so Friday. morning I sent it to all the leaders I. was in the um counter terrorism Center. and so I sent it to all the leaders. across our four branches and then the. two bosses above them and luckily my. senior boss who he's pretty famous he. was like the main analy boss um on Osama.

Bin Laden raid so he's like in the movie. and stuff for um Zero Dark 30 he luckily. said okay I'm going to sign someone to. investigate this and so he luckily. investigated it and then they shot it. down and they didn't do the strike so so. that was really good what was really bad. though is I went I didn't go high enough. and I learned that at that point so I. complained to my bosses they did the. right thing which you want them to do. but I never like gave it to the IG or. anything and like maybe a couple years.

later I found out she was one of our. bosses in our Yemen drone. shop right I mean that's very dangerous. I mean she was willing to lie about a. location in Pakistan to appease like a. congress person asking us to do. something um you know and unfortunately. if if you don't say something about. those people they get promoted up I mean. that's a big problem in the government. anywhere you've seen there was a ton of. drone strikes in Yemen. yeah interesting yeah and you have to. like nominate those you kind of don't.

just come in like let's hit this. location today so so that's what we were. doing at that time right we were giving. the nomination to then approve it so. then the CIA would do it makes you. wonder how many of those drone strikes. were legit oh yeah I have a lot of. questions about Yemen at least under her. watch yeah no kidding how long was she. in Yemen doing that for I mean usually. rotate for two or three years to a job. at CIA so what what is the point of what. does she get out of.

this I mean I me so she makes what. Congress happy what I know what is the. point I I honestly didn't understand the. point of it I mean I guess she did get a. promotion was that the point yeah but. she was in CA long enough to where she. was going to get a promotion anyway I. know this sounds depressing but you know. in the government you you go to a point. they move you to the next level. unfortunately even if you're good or not. um so yeah I I really don't get it um I. feel like every time though I've seen. somebody do the wrong thing there's not.

a logical reason right because a normal. person wouldn't do that right it's like. an irrational actor like how do you how. do you get to the level cuz you wouldn't. have thought of doing it I mean maybe. it's just a thought well they're. terrorists anyway yeah um but you know. there's still there's still laws right I. mean we still need to have some sort of. justification obviously how how many how. many times do you think that was going. on just in luckily I don't think it. happened a lot in Pakistan cuz I right a. lot of things were nominated out of my.

office and there was really good people. there um you know who did the right. thing but you know it did make me. nervous she decided to go to the dod. person because the dod does a lot of. drone strikes and it's like it's odd she. picked we had a big team like 12 14. people I'm like it's odd she picked the. one Department of Defense person that. she thought would put it out um that. made me concerned yeah picking on the uh. well most Junior vulnerable and does. that mean like yeah cuz DOD does it.

yeah man it's uh you know we're kind of. talking about it off camera But as time. goes on I am just with the stuff that. comes out and the stuff that I learned. doing this show. is it's alarming man I. just I don't talk much about money or. the economy let's face it ignoring it. doesn't help either because I believe. the government screws up all the time I. think they let down veterans ship jobs.

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talk.com ran and switch to Pur talk. today it's the right move and it's the. American. way there's so much to dive into and it. doesn't paint a pretty picture for what. what we've been doing but um yeah I mean. the thing is you always have to have. good people that step up and do the. right thing and if you don't have those. people then no one's ever going to do it. you know and that's that's a really big. problem in the government and then those. people get into these awkward situations.

right like I was in a really tough spot. after that like she was going to um. write me up um she actually did a lot of. things against me she canceled like um a. TDY I had to a war zone which made me. look really bad um even the write up she. started the write up for me and then I. ended up getting like a um like a. positive review from the president's. briefer on something I said and she said. oh I can't do it now because you got. this review but yeah it actually. affected my career for a short time.

because she was then using it against me. um you know for the next probably year. or so and then finally I got out from. from her office but um that's the thing. in the CIA a lot of people don't. understand is there's not really a human. resources department you the only person. who can guide your career is your. current boss and that's it so they're. the one who helps you get to another job. so they tell that person yeah take her. she's great and they help promote you or. they say don't take her they help you. get into the training courses you need. or they say don't let her into that.

training course um and so it's all those. personalities can really affect your. career as you can imagine you can get. really held back for things yeah let's. talk about Pakistan when you were. informed of the coast bombing in. December 2009 Kent Chapman attack was a. double a su double agent suicide bomber. seven CIA Personnel killed I had friends. killed in that yeah I know you too do.

you know do you know a lot about what. went on there yeah I mean the crazy part. is is well the day I found out that you. first bringing up I um I was in another. city in Pakistan and I flew in and I. just W came into the office so I knew. nothing right cuz it's not like we share. things as you know over your cell phones. when you're um in the CIA so I go into. the office and my boss calls me in and. um and I was like oh gosh I'm in TR I. was always getting in trouble for going. over his head on something so I'm like. what did I do well I was down for a week.

like so he calls me in and and and I'm. like oh gosh like getting ready to. defend myself and he's like hey just you. know and then he told me it happened so. the thing was is they'd been planning. that for a while and it was actually. supposed to be in P shower it was the. asset who chose to move it to Coast. which obviously already is a warning. sign right so so if you think about it. it was actually people make and Pakistan. planning it the entire time and then the.

last minute it shifted over to. Afghanistan and then the like the. Afghanistan CIA Personnel got involved. so they even ended it they joined at. kind of the end of. the whole planning right so it was going. to be in Pakistan and it moved so yeah. basically what happened it was a. ruse it was um Al-Qaeda and TTP which. you know a lot of people ignore TTP um. even this last year it's been so. powerful it's always been an ally with. Al-Qaeda Al-Qaeda uses them and join.

attacks and people kind of like ignore. that fact so the the two groups got. together and said hey we're going to. make this ruse we're going to do a. double agent um and end up being a. double Jordanian agent who then the. jordanians gave to the CIA so he's kind. of like a triple agent and um you know. we're going to use him we're going to. basically tell them he's a doctor that. is doing something for Ziri and is going. to go KN to see zhi so so Dr Ian aliri. was the head of al-Qaeda at the time so.

as you can imagine well he was a deputy. sorry Deputy so you can imagine this is. the number two most important terrorist. in the CIA and now we got an agent that. basically says oh I'm a doctor that has. to go see him for a medical in you know. thing so it was a huge deal it was. probably the biggest operation of the. time in the CIA and then unfortunately. the whole plan was for him to commit a. suicide attack against the CIA during. his meeting and that's what he did and. that's how we lost the seven.

officers but you know it's something to. keep in mind though a lot of people lose. sight of the fact that. Ziri is an operational planner he gets. sold all the time as like oh he was like. a doctor and he's like a religious. scholar that guy was involved in. planning 911 he was involved in planning. Coast he led Benghazi and he gets. ignored all the time and to be honest. until I see a Ka of eulogize him I'm. having a hard time believing he's dead.

because he does rses he plays games he. knows how to mess with us and he's. dangerous yeah so where is he do you. think so well supposedly last summer we. killed him in a drone strike in Cobble. so. um what what seems to have happened is. and all this really kind of lines up so. he was staying at a house owned by sjin. hak. and sarajen hakani and the hakan have.

long been suspected of probably being. the people who host zarir the whole time. using was zeran as you can imagine. because they had such a power base there. so anyway he he he goes to cble report. Le and he's in this house of hakan and. then yeah the CIA Struck it and he was. killed then but now it's been what 14. months and Al-Qaeda has yet to eulogize. him officially interesting interesting. thing where do you think he might be I.

don't know I think he's still likely. dead I just it's very odd that they. haven't eulogized him and they also. never fake eulogize people so so I so. I'm just kind of like well I don't think. a fake one's going to come out but why. isn't the real one come up well how long. does it usually take for him to eulogize. somebody I mean they usually do it. before they name the next leader I mean. they have not publicly named who the. next leader is even though they've. chosen who the like de facto leader is.

but the weird part is the leader is also. like this strange defacto so it's like. ccial a but they're like Well he kind of. leads like the military side of al-Qaeda. and then Bin Laden's son is still alive. so so the US reported him being killed. in 2019 so Hamza Bin Laden the a to. Osama Bin Laden is alive in Afghanistan. too but he doesn't want to be the leader. of alq so it's unclear what role he's. playing so yeah so Al-Qaeda hasn't.

actually made clear like this is our air. which is interesting so hold on we. reported Bin Laden's son was killed in. 2019 correct when. did we or you find out that he was still. alive um last September his brother came. to um Afghanistan to visit. him how do you know that because his. brother came to Afghanistan to visit him. gotcha all right I'll stop asking. [Laughter].

questions we'll have that conversation. off. camera. um now I got to re hold on now I got to. just readjust my thoughts cuz I would. love to dive into that but let's go. to let's go to January. 2010 led the capture of Mula Abdul gani.

berer did I say that correct. yes so I mean um again um you know if. you've seen my book this is. known um Mula berer as everyone now. knows he basically made the whole peace. deal that turned Afghanistan over to the. Taliban so back in 2009 I started. targeting him um and we captured him in. 2018 the really interesting part is he. had really good Ops SEC um to where like.

I wanted to capture him but I was like I. don't think like even if he got on a. phone he was on it like a minute you. know and I even had a senior boss of the. Deputy Chief of station one time like. stopped me in one of our big meetings. that we had weekly and he said Sarah why. are you still briefing this you're never. going to get muler berer on a phone like. he said that in front of the whole. station right right and it's like it's. like I knew I probably wouldn't and as.

you know how life is so it's funny the. um you know the the people who collect. signals intelligence even the guy that. was supposed to do it for us did not. believe my phones were braiders and he. actually like was refusing to collect on. them and then a Myer of all people from. the bin Laden raid like stepped in and. was like you need to collect I don't. give a damn what you think we're the CIA. she was really funny and she defended me. um but I don't think he actually CL it. so so how it works in the CIA is you.

always do side things so I had someone. in another location collecting the. phones for me so I was in another city. in Pakistan and coming back to Islamabad. and that person calls me and she said. you won't believe it braer phone is up. but it's been up like your whole flight. and I said that doesn't make any sense. she's like yeah it hasn't turned off and. I said how weird and I said keep me in. the loop I'm going to see if we can get. a capture going and so um I went to the. leaders in um Islamabad and um the crazy.

part was is did you ever hear about like. the cosos. conference I didn't okay there's this. time of the year I don't I hopefully the. time changes every year um that they all. get together and have a big meeting so. we had no leaders um our top three were. gone and then the the the leader the the. chief of Base from where he was located. was gone um so I so the only boss there. was our chief of liaison at the time you. know and so I went and said hey I need.

to get a team to go capture braer he's. like let me think about it and I was. like oh my gosh so I didn't even go back. and ask him so I went down to where the. team sit and I said hey I need two guys. to go to Karachi and they said yeah we. got like two in La horor we'll move them. from that and then um and then I booked. a flight and I went straight down there. and then. um so I I'm traveling right and I'm. checking in with this girl and she's. like the phone is still on and I was. like no way well at first we assumed he.

lived in Karachi which he ended up doing. and that's where I capture was but the. phone's in queta so I said okay let's. just capture him in qua if the phone's. up in qua why would we wait till he. comes to karach so I called the boss in. queta and did you ever see like Gone in. 60 Seconds and there he had Eleanor. uhhuh so like it was the car he never. could get and and something always went. wrong with it so our boss in queta had a. had a terrorist like that he was like a. like a deputy Shadow governor for.

helmond he was like the shadow governor. for a really famous Taliban Commander. named Mula Naim B um I think his name. was like tersha and he was in town that. day and this guy tried to get tah. hershaw every time he was in town we. probably should do like see how much. money we've wasted on capturing this guy. because we failed every time so of. course we I call him he's like tar. Shaw's in town and I said dude I'm. saying berater and he's like I don't. think it's berer he's like I'm going to. go for tah sha and then I'll go for.

berer if we don't get sha so they spent. the half first half of the day going for. the guy he's never been able to get and. they didn't get him and then braer moves. so then um you know my friend's like. he's driving he's going home to Karachi. and I'm like yes so at this time I've. already decided I said this is his kid. there's no way berer rode to another. city with his phone and rode back so I. said his kid has a phone now we can only. capture him at home cuz you know you you. don't want to pick some kid up at like a. restaurant or something so we waited.

till the phone went back and then it. went back to the exact neighborhood we. thought he lived in and then we um we we. did the capture operation so we just got. really lucky his kids stole old phone. out of the closet and brought on a trip. with his dad and this is the this is the. co-founder of the Taliban yeah he he was. number two at the time of the Taliban. yeah but he is one of the founders yeah. how old was he maybe 55 it's really hard. to tell yeah um but I he SP about 55 so. how.

long what is the what is the process. like when you want to do a strike or a. capture well luckily because he was. number two of the Taliban we had. approvals to capture him so we'd already. gone to lawyers and got like the top 10. of Taliban so that's who we had at the. time we had a list of 10 Taliban people. we were allowed to capture so I didn't. have to go ask any permissions to. capture him so then usually you go to. your cosos. and um get approval when my cosos was.

gone cosos is Chief station that will be. the head agency officer in charge of the. entire country oh yeah so I would you. would I would go to him especially at a. that that high of a capture and ask his. permission but he wasn't there and the. number two wasn't there and number three. wasn't there and number four wasn't. going to give me an answer so then I. just went straight to where berer lived. and then that Co was gone and she was. replaced by like a friend of mine and so. he's like let's do it um so yeah so we.

really got no approvals because nobody. was in country um so yeah that's how we. got Brier how how long does it normally. take let's say they're not on the top 10. list oh if they're not on the top 10. list you actually have to go to the CIA. lawyers and get approvals and that could. take months months if you know if you've. never got approval to go after a guy. yeah what are the. most what are your Str. usually are they captures are they drone. strikes are they send it in teams what.

depends on what you're working so I was. working Taliban so we didn't really have. lethal approvals on Taliban maybe we had. amula Omar so we had to capture Taliban. because remember the government still. called them a political group they. weren't a terrorist organization so we. weren't really allowed to put Taliban. like under drone strike but we really. couldn't anyway they were in qua Karachi. Pasha you know it wasn't like they in. weran yeah Al-Qaeda most of those.

targets obviously the the the attempt. was drone strikes because of the. locations of the country they were in. but if they're in the settle areas. obviously like a wh or something you'd. have to capture. them okay so when you're so as a. targeter you're attached to a certain. group correct okay or it can independ so. you can be attached to a group you can. be attached to a region you can be. attached to a city so at that time I was. my job was the top three of the Taliban.

and then anything in karach so it could. be Al-Qaeda could be Shia groups it. didn't matter it could be organized. crime so I did any targeting karach okay. what's it feel like when you get these. guys it was pretty exciting the. interesting part was though no one. believed I really got him so so we got. his photo and of course they sent it. first to a CIA asset that I always said. was correct CP um over in Afghanistan he. didn't ID the photo so everyone's like.

it's not him I said no it's him that. source is crap and you need to finally. fire him and then we finally got it into. sources that did actually know him and. weren't feeding us garbage CU as you. know a lot of sources in Afghan Dan fet. is a bunch of garbage got paid for it. and then they worked for three other. intelligence agencies so so yeah I mean. it it was good to get him um in. retrospect though I realized right away. that they wanted him for I wanted to get.

him cuz he was number two the Taliban. and he was the lead operational. commander of the Taliban so in my head. he's the lead Ops guy so every US. soldier dying in Afghanistan it's on his. shoulders right that's the way I viewed. him as a Target when we got him in a. room and we started getting questions. from what the CIA wanted from him that's. when I actually learned that the. president at the time President Obama um. had appointed like the special Envoy and. his name is Richard Holbrook and his.

goal was to do Taliban. reconciliation um and their main focus. and they had made some assessment that. the only way they could reconcile with. with the Taliban was to use Mula berer. so so we sit down with him and want to. collect info to go Target other Taliban. members right because that's what I do I. go after the bad guys and I find out all. my questions are who would you be okay. with coming to meet with you about peace. like I mean we would list off names of.

countries would you be okay if Japan. came the Brits came with all this. strange stuff and I was like oh my gosh. they only want this guy for. reconciliation and that kind of. became that's when I saw we're going to. make a deal with the Taliban and we're. going to give part of the government. back to the Taliban I didn't think it. was going to be what today was so if I. went back in time I never would have. captured him because he is the. reason the whole country fell are you.

serious swear to God so this plan this. goes way back oh yeah and they had the. plan before I captured him like the day. we captured him um like our chief. brought us in the office in Islam B well. we flew back up from Karachi and he. brought me and then the other guy who. are going to be the lead de briefers and. he he gave us a heads up he said FYI he. said this is the number one focus in the. White House they want to bring out this. whole Brook guy um they want to take it.

over from Islamabad station they don't. even want you guys to briefing him um so. he fought for us to debrief him but they. pulled everything they sent a. psychiatrist out to watch our sessions. to make sure we had rapport with him I. kid you not they made sure his detain. debriefers had rapport with him like. they were already kissing his butt right. after we caught. him so yeah and so he ended up um. getting released and then he was the key.

us. um intermediary with the Taliban to make. the peace deal and I tell you this. guy I mean I really liked most terorists. I met I know that sounds really bad cuz. you know when you're on a human to human. level and you're just talking to him. this guy was smart he was charismatic I. mean he was probably a genius cuz he was. locked up but he could remember he told. you something like five days ago like he.

knew exactly when he told you stuff he. could defend anything so if you said hey. the Taliban did X he would give you a. really good justification why and you'd. be like oh yeah that actually makes. sense or I see the logic um like one of. the things is um right after the fall so. the US went in after 911 and they beat. the Taliban in like 5 weeks I mean it. was amazing amazing like raw raw USA I. mean they really kicked ass they toppled.

the Taliban so Taliban basically all. went home so um Mula braer in my theory. first took Mula Omar and he hit him so. he hit him in a ruse gun and mul om I. don't think ever left there braer went. home to like the home is Dad owns and. and they were like we lost we're done. well as you know Bin Laden crossed. Tora into Pakistan. so our war now on Al-Qaeda was kind of. over and it was like oh gosh we moved.

this whole war machine to Afghanistan we. beat the Taliban and baden's gone what. are we going to do so they decided we're. going to go Target the old Taliban. leaders even though that we just beat. the Taliban so they made a hit list of. the senior Taliban leaders and then they. came and bomb ber Raider's house so at. that point he said screw this I'm going. on offense like you beat us and then you. come back here months later and you bom. my house and they actually injured his. dad so that didn't help um and then.

that's when he triggered over and said. okay game's on tal Ban's back like you. didn't win and that's when he went full. back in no kidding right so when you. tell he tells you that story I'm like. heck yeah you come and bom my dad I'm in. um so so yeah he he would always have. like a good story like that so I can see. how he would meet with us policy makers. and be very. persuasive um especially remember they. didn't view the Taliban as terrorist. group they still view them as a.

political group even though they like. kidnap people murder people torture. people they rape women they rape. children like they still call them a. political organization blow I mean we're. funding them again now right I think we. send like $40 million a week $40 million. a week goes to Taliban yes who are. taking our. allies lining them up like dogs yep and. shooting them in the back of the head. and we're funding that and that's kind. of what you hope they do I mean I've got.

videos that are very very painful deaths. what kind of deaths torture deaths some. really bad um beheading deaths of our. allies you know these are all the guys. we used to work with over there yeah a. lot of a lot of the people who worked. with them get the video sent to them a. during or. after it's a. taunt they were taunting when the. airport was still open like um you know. when people were trying to get in the. airport as refugees remember the US.

military they were there but they. couldn't respond in any way to the. situation going on so to taunt them the. Taliban would grab a woman and shoot her. in the head they would burn a a Child. Alive in front of the military because. they knew they couldn't act yeah you. know I I uh interviewed do you know. Tyler Vargas Andrews by chance we. haven't met in person but I'm in the. moral compass Federation and he's in the. Federation with us oh man what a what an. amazing human being he is but um yeah he.

was describing some of the stuff that he. saw and then you know I had I worked. over there for a long time too and uh we. probably ran into each other without. knowing it but I had people sended me. videos and and cell phone clips of what. they were doing. and I wish I could post it on here you. know and I wish I could embed it into. this interview just to show people. what's happening over there what is it. what does it look like to see a infant.

burned alive to taunt what does it look. like to see the people that you used to. work with lined up in the mud and just. shot in the back of the head just going. down the line you know they don't put. that on the news these people need to. see that yeah they don't put on the news. and they also didn't give any help to. these poor people who had to stand there. and watch that you know our servicemen. like the trauma they had to stand there. and watch and endure they actually came.

back here and you know a lot of them. were told we don't want to hear you talk. about Afghanistan. yep. yep yeah it's well you know it's funny. you bring it up because we were just. talking we're were talking about India. and you know that the bomber that Tyler. had his eyes on was captured in India. did he I did not know that yeah so so in. 2017 um Isis deployed him to do attack. in New Deli India and he went over there. with the ruse of being like an engineer. student and like started college and.

then he was casing a few locations like. the New Delhi airport like the mall and. um the Indians or the CIA I was CIA at. the time one of them infiltrated the. network of Isis he was in and found out. who he was and they did a capture of him. in India um and then they sent him to. Bam so he was in Bam from 2017 until. July 1st When We snuck out in the middle. of the night July 1st um 2021 we left in.

the middle of the night didn't tell the. commander of BM we were leaving he comes. in the morning and the Taliban and. terrorists are breaking all the. prisoners out that's when he got to. prison so we had him in custody for all. those years um and the crazy part is is. I found out who the bomber was even. before it was in the Press because my. guy who gives me Isis stuff for Libya. sent me the photo in like the middle of. the night and I get a photo from him and.

it's got a little bit of Eric I mean. Arab um text and then he wrote in Arabic. something so I get up and I translate it. and I've honestly had not slept in a. week at that point cuz I just got people. into the Cobble airport and I was like. oh gosh but it's Libya you know like I. thought it was a Libyan terrorist and so. I was all getting up for it and it said. you know this man's important you need. to look into him and so I transer. translate the name on the picture and it. says lari and so I write back back why. are you sending me an Afghan it's like. it's still not even Dawning on me that. he's sending me somebody to do with the.

attacks right and so he he writes back. again look at him and I was like I have. no idea what you're talking about and so. I try searching the name and I'm not. getting anything on the name and it. Dawns on me and I said was he involved. in the Cobble airport attack and he said. yeah I didn't know he was a suicide. bomber at that second I thought maybe he. was the planner um cuz usually you don't. know the bomber they just take some. low-level guy and you know know and so. yeah but that's how I found out and then. maybe within the next day it hit the.

Press um who he was but yeah. so damn it's crazy damn. well what do you want to talk about. first do you want to talk about I I want. to go into the Afghan withdrawal go. anything you want to I want to go into. Benghazi I'll drink some water Let's uh. let's take a quick break okay when we. come back I think we'll pick up since. we're on the subject let's go into the. withdrawal. ladies and gentlemen it has been a.

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all right Sarah we're back from the. break we're getting ready to dive into. the Afghan withdraw I've covered this. with Scott man before who I know you. know Scott covered it with Tyler Andrew. Vargas uh or I'm sorry Tyler Vargas. Andrews but um. I'd love to hear. I'm really interested in getting all the.

dirt on this so anything you have to add. uh on top of everything we've already. covered I want to hear it the chaotic. and deadly us evacuation from. Afghanistan stunned Americans and the. world and cost the lives of 13 US. soldiers now a damning new report blames. the Biden Administration for being slow. to evacuate US citizens and Afghan. allies you know I think one of the. things I could add on top of what. they've covered um is the fact that it.

always gets lost that this was State. Department run right the really. interesting part is right do you hear. anybody ever say we need to hold State. Department accountable for the horrible. Neo right or even military is like hey. we were just following the state Neo. rules um and then you know being CIA and. all you know even towards the end of the. withdrawal they took over the cia's gate. so the CIA was probably the only real. government organization moving people.

out taking our allies out making it. happen and doing the right thing and. state department took over their gate. because they didn't like what they were. doing and that they were bringing people. in and so even when I finally got a. family to that gate after the um the. suicide bombing it was a state. department person running the CIA gate. no kidding yeah so they were like. basically preventing the CIA from. bringing their own people in why do you. think we didn't want to save our own.

people I think we as CIA wanted to save. our own people I think the government. just wanted to get out of Afghanistan. and actually thought they were going to. get away with it I think they just. wanted to leave and be done they never. expected 20 years of veterans or or. Intel officers that worked in the. country or even just NOS who had. supported the country were going to go. back in and save their allies like we. got in their way like in a bad way um.

and that's kind of what ruined their. narrative right because they were going. to say hey we left 100 Americans behind. but now you had all these volunteer. groups with large lists of people able. to tally up their Americans and say hey. we went across all the groups and it. looks like 8,000 Americans are left. behind US Government how are you getting. away with saying we only left 100. Americans behind so it was actually the. volunteers who at least told the truth. and held the government to account but.

of course the government's not dumb you. know what they did they made like a. coalition to kind of get the other. people to be quiet you know so task. force pineapple that Scott was from was. one of the louder ones obviously talking. about the issues and so they wanted to. diffuse that and they created this thing. called Afghan Evac I don't know if. you've ever heard of it I haven't so it. was basically going to be it is uh. partnership between the government and. all these NOS of course not all of us. are a part of it and um moral compass.

Federation is kind of like the Rogue. entity to the side if I'm in something. it's like the Rogue entity to the side. just FYI because it's like hey we don't. want to play with this game like Afghan. Evas kind of just talks what state. department wants on the talk and it. keeps people quiet you have to sign tons. of ndas when I first joined in I think. after the third NDA I was like what the. f I'm out of this group. um but yeah it is to keep the volunteer. groups in line to to to make them.

mentally happy so it's a cover yeah as. they drag out the Evac it is a cover to. drag out the Evac 100% and all these. groups just fall in line with it and. even two years later at first I thought. oh I hope they they know that they're. being played but yeah two years later. they they still do their monthly. meetings and um people still talk about. it like it's really saving people can. you go over some of the like what's. happening there now you still have a. really good footprint in in Afghanistan.

as far as what what's happening yeah and. so you know I've talked. to some of the Northern Alliance guys um. and they're talking you know I had. always. had a feeling that China played a role. in this a lot of people think I'm crazy. but we have the green energy thing right. everybody's moving this Administration. is really. pushing green energy well green energy.

comes from China it's not energy. Independence China was there in. Afghanistan the minute we pulled out I. know you know a little bit about. this very rich lithium mines in. Afghanistan lithium is what we need to. make the batteries that power the green. energy China's taking in I mean I mean. anybody can kind of piece this together. and they go oh well maybe there's. something to that do you think there's. anything to that well yeah I mean I.

really hope people have known this the. entire time because it would blow my. mind if people negotiated with the. Taliban didn't know this but in 2009. Mula berer who again is the person who. um negotiated the peace deal his job for. the Taliban was he was the liaison from. the Taliban to the government of China. and he would go to China and meet with. the Chinese government um you know at. the time it was obviously as you can.

imagine just keeping a relationship. going um the Chinese really wanted hey. Taliban if you collect any info on the. yugar you know on the weers um pass it. to us so it's really interesting people. don't realize that the Taliban are. reporting on other Muslims to China you. know um so so everyone acting like oh. yeah they're going to be some Big C. terrorism Force um the people of China. are doing abuses against the talian have.

been supporting that for a very very. long time besides what they're doing in. their own country um and then Taliban of. course would ask for stuff like help us. um get weapons or or funds for weapons. so it was that kind of relationship but. the the Taliban China. relationship has been stronger than the. US Taliban relationship at least since. 2009 for sure so of course the China. would be the main um party they link up. with when they go to and China now I. think is the first and only country that.

has um assigned an official ambassador. to the Taliban government they're the. first ones I think they're the first. ones yeah are they the only ones th far. yeah everyone else has these weird. envoys but I believe that's the first. designated ambassadorial position I was. talking to these Northern Alliance guys. and they were saying there are Chinese. officials everywhere over there building. massive hotels right outside of these. lithium deposits I mean. like.

huge multi-million dollar structures. which you don't see those very often. over there in the middle of nowhere in. Afghanistan yeah I mean and it's smart. of them I mean obviously it goes along. with their Belt Road initiative like I. said they already had they don't have to. go make a relationship right the guy. they brokered with now I don't know what. he is now like number three in the. government but he also plays a huge part. in the economics piece of this current. government anyway so he's already. positioned anyway to um hook China up. which was his closest Ally before he was.

captured can you talk a little bit about. the Northern Alliance and what's going. on with them right now yeah I mean I can. talk a little bit about the Northern. Alliance the the thing is obviously as. you know there's pockets of resistance. right the Northern Alliance is the most. famous because obviously that goes back. to akmad Sham mud um and he was the key. us Ally before 9/11 the really. interesting thing is and we talk about. in our book is you know he was. assassinated of course well the.

individual Who provided the two Tunisian. suicide bombers to him provided. attackers to zahiri for the magazi. attacks too right the guy still in play. and I like to try to tell people this is. still all connected right I mean I know. massud son comes up as a connection it's. like no even the same terrorists are. still in the circle as when akan sha. massud was in power and I feel the nor. the the northern resistance is trying to. tell that to people right like these are. still the same attack attackers we're.

here fighting International terrorists. there's a lot of misinformation in the. US that what's happening in Afghanistan. is like a um domestic war or tribal war. and it's like no those are foreign. terrorists they're they're fighting. Al-Qaeda at this point so many. terrorists are pouring in to Afghanistan. as well and the really interesting part. is alqaeda has adopted uh like adapted I. mean so they learned something I think. from Benghazi so when alaa went into.

Libya after Gaddafi they decided hey. it's better for us to take the local. commanders and make them the al-Qaeda. leaders instead of bringing in a. foreigner cuz you know like you bring in. an Egyptian into Benghazi it doesn't. always go well right cuz locals like oh. Egyptians so they decided we're going to. appoint the local so that now Al-Qaeda. is doing that in Afghanistan so for each.

province that Al-Qaeda is making. commanders for the lot of them they're. taking Taliban members and making them. the al-Qaeda Commander so the two things. that works for the um Al-Qaeda right the. US will just say they're Taliban when. they're Al-Qaeda and they already have. the support because they're the Taliban. right so you're not bringing in some. outside force and being like follow me. I'm Al-Qaeda you're saying hey you're. already following the Taliban guy he now.

works for Al-Qaeda and that's what they. did in Benghazi and the two that they. chose in Benghazi they were involved in. our attacks and like I said they're. doing it in Afghanistan now but like for. every Province right so it's like aund. bazis it almost feels like man they're. smart they are it's it's it's genius. because there's always been a little. ruffling especially you bring in. Egyptians is always the best example. and then you know there's a. little head. butting man can you can you talk a.

little bit about what the resistance is. who it is who they're fighting I mean. just more of a snapshot of what's going. on over there yeah I mean I'm not an. expert on the resistance there's there's. different Pockets so there's the tajiks. right and that's kind of the ones we all. know the the Northern Alliance and then. there's kind of like the sedat you know. Sami Sadat there's the ones who were. basically kind of maybe their special. forces in their military or in like the.

ministry of defense of the real Afghan. government and they have like a. resistance and pockets of resistance and. different leaders right and a lot of. them are a pume but they don't have to. be right but um so so there's so as we. go along right all these different. pockets are going to need to go under an. umbrella they're going to need to unite. exactly and um because that's what the. terrorists do right I mean even if you.

look over in Afghan um Pakistan I don't. know if you remember when TTP was formed. but the only purpose of forming TTP was. to make the terrorist Stronger by. putting them all together so they took. like by Tula mud's group abdulla massud. gahad and fure muhammads and they said. okay you all go under this structure so. they did it so al-qaeda's like that's. genius and Bin Laden said I want to. start doing that I want to do it in.

Libya um he didn't do it when he wanted. to do but anal asaria Benghazi started. doing it and then later on they followed. Bin Laden's plan and they actually made. another organization that did follow Bin. Laden's plan and reped to Al-Qaeda but. when anelar Shar Benghazi was set up and. that was when the attackers in our group. they said any group you can join us and. so I think this confuses a lot of people. so like there'll be a guy at our attacks. he's anel Shari Benghazi and he's aqim. cuz it's an umbrella organization you. can beat any terrorist group under the.

ansaria banner and um AA is getting. really smart about that they're actually. having meetings with International. terrorists to discuss how can we make. more of these umbrella organizations and. wrap us under it um even the hakan are. involved in those discussions one of our. terrorists that we found recently that. that had been in gitmo he's still in. Libya he's having those discussions with. the hakan about hey how do we view all.

of this together right don't make it. Afghanistan don't make it Libya make. this a global terrorism front like those. conversations are happening wow and the. thing is they wanted to do this in Libya. and they failed so Libya was supposed to. become where all the training camps were. and then they would deploy all the. terrorist out from those training camps. to all the future jihads first it was. Syria but then wherever it would become.

so they've now shifted that to. Afghanistan so Afghanistan now they're. going to put I I don't know what the. exact thing is but basically at least. one training camp in each province and. so they're going to train all the. foreign terrorists in Afghanistan and. then they're going to deploy them from. Afghanistan to the different groups and. the really interesting part is the. terrorist who moved all of our attackers. that left our attacks out of Libya after. the attacks he's sitting in.

Cobble so basically al-qaeda's best. terrorist facilitator is in Cobble. because that's their. plan wow why why do you think so many. foreign terrorists are are converging in. on Afghanistan because it's safe because. we're not there yeah so even one of our. most recent ones I'm assuming he's he's. a hive value Target in Libya he was a. very high Target value when we're in. Pakistan he now goes to Afghanistan. there's no more drone strikes um he can.

live a lot safer so so of course they're. going to move there and remember that's. now where the training camp. infrastructure is going to be and they. want to support. that do you think China is going to Aid. them. in future attacks on. us I think they're for sure going to. going to turn a blind eye I think. they're going to ride this for as long. as they can I don't think China's stupid.

I'm not sure China thinks taliban's. going to be ruling 10 years from now but. I think China's like let's position. ourselves for whatever that fallout's. going to look like I think that's more. what China's thinking do you think. China's going to be rolling over there. in 10 years I'm not entirely sure they. already are it sounds like you know but. so man it's. so what is what is taliban's. relationship with the US now are. we according to an oped in the.

Washington Post today the CIA shares. intelligence with the Taliban so we have. an official intelligence sharing. relationship with the Taliban I I just I. just I can't. believe it doesn't even seem. real does it I I I can barely take it. every single. day especially with just how many.

al-qaida members are currently in. Afghanistan the thing is we know. Benghazi was covered up that Al-Qaeda. led the attack. right people shouldn't have allowed it. to happen they did now should we have. learned our lesson like we cannot let. the US government cover up Al-Qaeda and. Afghanistan I'm I'm sorry I feel like. people are like we've done this for 20. years no like we're going to say. something we're going to report it if. you don't or if the Press doesn't like I.

do think people need to step up now that. we have so many experts on. Afghanistan we have so many allies in. Afghanistan we can pull out all the. information ourselves if the. government's not going to do the right. thing then everybody who has contacts in. Afghanistan needs to be putting the. information out where do you think so. they they're doing all this training and. stuff in Afghanistan Al-Qaeda and all. these International terrorists you think. they're going to start coming up through. our Southern borders oh they've already. started do you know that for a fact yes. how do you know that I know that because.

I was told several different times about. group pockets of Terrace so like six. eight um there was one larger one maybe. 25 to 50 I think it was 50 um that. procured v um passports from the Afghan. government with the sole purpose of. coming to our Southern border um one was. Isis it was only a group of eight the. Isis terrorists got the passports they. went to Iran their goal was Iran turkey.

turkey Brazilian visa and then come up. through the Darian pass um the I forget. it was 25 or 50 sorry that was hakani. Network their goal was they obviously. the hakani network they run the minist. of interior so they all got the. passports um their goal was Turkey to. Brazil I mean the key is Brazil um and. then Al-Qaeda has also sent um.

attackers on the same. routes and why is brazila key because. it's easy to get a humanitarian Brazil. visa and then there's no real security. to stop you from leaving so then you. just now go illegally up through the. Darion pass okay the Darion pass is the. focus the Darion pass is where they're. all going through the Darian pass is. your choke point where is that it's kind. of like in Panama okay and um it's super.

dangerous like if 10 Afghans go in maybe. six come out really why is that um there. is. murders rapes robberies animal attacks. like I seriously know someone who told. me that the Afghan died by like a a. large wild cat you know like a cougar or. whatever is the local one there. um so yeah. diseases um even if they get through and. then get picked up by the panamanians.

there's a lot of torture and abuse so. what hold on what is why is it so. dangerous there this is a section of. Panama I think cuz so many criminals. maybe are going through it it's just of. it's just extreme poverty I think it's. just like it's the. jungle right it's like kind of a real. wild wild. west um. and and that's so that's where. everybody's targeting to travel through. so it's not exactly Brazil Brazil is. just the easiest part to get through.

this pipeline up gotcha yeah it's it's. the easiest country to infiltrate Brazil. is for for the beginning of their. Journey how many terrorists do you know. how approximately how many terrorists. we've caught trying to cross the. southern border I wouldn't imagine it's. very many it seems like the southern. border is pretty wide open I don't know. cuz like last year I thought there was. like 20 in a month or something I feel. like maybe in this year it was like 100. or so I don't know the exact number I. know we're missing a lot yeah I mean.

that these are only who we've caught and. I mean and who we have biometric for. right because if we don't have their. Biometrics in our system how do we know. who they're ter we don't even know who. they are and remember if they're coming. as an Afghan on a fake Taliban passport. it it doesn't have the Biometrics we had. anyway it doesn't have the name we have. watch listed it doesn't even probably of. the ethnicity if you're Pakistani and. you went and got a passport from the. Taliban you're now they think assume.

you're an. Afghan that's a good point have they. have we interrogated anybody that they. have caught crossing the border I mean. I'm assuming I just don't have access to. that but they are in detention. facilities if that's what you're asking. are you aware of any of the. motivations I I just have not seen any. debriefings and luckily I have not known. an terrorist that's come over thank. heavens okay all right all.

right well is there anything else that. uh we want to cover when it comes to the. Afghan withdrawal I think we're good. unless you had something all right let's. move into let's move into some more of. your career you were involved in the. first operational acts after the ubl. raid capture of yonas Al. morani yeah so so that was an. interesting time cuz as you remember. obviously they got Bin Laden and then. they're like oh no the pakistanis might. arrest all these Americans who are.

involved and they sent a ton of people. home right and then Pakistan's like oh. good we're going to stop issuing visas. like I don't know why anyone nobody. factored that in and then like oh shoot. we don't have enough staff in Pakistan. because now we can't get visas cuz. Pakistan you know in retaliation sto. issuing Visas so they went to the. targeting community and said who still. has visas and a long long time ago the. pakistanis issued 10 year and then it. went to 5ye and then it went just your. trip so I had a fiveyear um there was.

one girl that was now like kind of. part-time CA she married like a jck. officer so she wasn't at headquarters. anymore she had a ten year and then Maya. who caught Bin Laden had a ten year the. funny part is the three of us. volunteered so they sent all those staff. officers home from his llad and Maya who. all of isi knew got Bin Laden she. volunteered to go back to Pakistan so. they're all whms right cuz she was like. I'll go.

back so they didn't take her it was. there unfortunately um she's a little. bit of a tough character I like her but. the boss the female boss didn't want to. um have her come back so so me and the. other two girl me and the other girl. went so so I go out there and it is like. a ghost town and they're doing nothing. there's no work going on um and we get. information that Unis morani so he was. the alqaeda external operations. Commander so he's now like KSM but like.

you know 10 guys died since right so. he's not as smart as College Shake. muhamad who did 911 he's kind of like. the C team you know um so it's kind of. like this is now who we got um so he was. in charge of any external plotting for. core alqaeda out of Pakistan. and we got information that he was going. to leave Pakistan to go to Africa and my. assumptions maybe like Libya at the time.

just because of the year was 2011 um and. then he was going to plan attacks in. Europe from Africa it was him and his. cell they were going to move out of. Pakistan so we got this and I said oh. good let's go ask Pakistan to detain. them and everyone laughed at me you know. they're like we don't do operations with. Pakistan anymore I said well are we. going to ask and they're like we don't. we don't even talk so I go over to our. chief of liaison at the time which every. chief of liaison in my story is bad but. they're not all bad but this is sorry.

sorry CIA so I go to chaison and I say. hey can you call isi and see if we can. go capture Unice real quick isi is the. pakistani's version of CIA yeah inter. Services. intelligence um they have a bunch of. different directorates the CIA works. with like their counterterrorism. directorates so that's who we're talking. to when we talk to to them as a partner. if that makes sense good um so I go over. I said call. isi so we can go capture Unice and he.

goes I don't talk to isi and I said but. you're the chief of liaison your only. job is liaison with isi and he goes yeah. and I said can I have their number he's. like I don't have their phone number. he's like he goes I'm only here to play. tennis and I thought I misheard that I. seriously thought I misheard that so I. said you don't have a number like you. can't call them and he's like no and he. honestly grabs a tennis racket and. leaves the meeting the discussion with. me with a tennis racket like he. seriously went in the middle of the day.

to play tennis racket when I was asking. him if we could go capture the external. operations planner for. alqaeda so anyway this is our US. Government I could I couldn't I honestly. this is how it is everybody needs to. hear this yeah I everybody needs to hear. play tennis um so I go back into the. targeting shop and everyone's like how'd. it go like kind of making fun of me and. I said yeah the jerk doesn't even have.

ize number so I said but we do and we. had this like old notebook in front of. the phone and it never got changed like. you probably need to go throw that. notebook away and so I was like the. phone number is in this notebook I know. it because I've called from it and I. went through the notebook and I found. isi's phone number it's it's the isi the. targeters talk to not like the isi the. chief of station talks to but I don't. care so I called it and the guy knew me. and I'm like hey it's Sarah Adams I'm. back in country we want to meet he's. like come on over so so we we went over.

it was me and like another like a one of. the permanent like targeters in the. station cuz you know I was just a TD. wire and we go over and um they have us. go meet I guess in the room the chief of. station goes to cuz it's never where I. met before and it's like this big room. with maps all over and it's really funny. because we always printed maps for isi. and I never know what we did with them. and I go to them this is where all our. Maps went I thought you were doing. operations with them um so yeah so the. room was all these maps and it was a a.

very senior isi guy who I assume was. probably the head of the CT directorate. again I never met at that director so I. didn't know who he was and we we start. the conversation and um I tell them. about Unice and at the time he had like. four or five terrorist traveling with. him and then the guy you know he he. listens and he's like you know we'd be. interest interested but we're really. upset about Bin Laden and he kind of. goes through the Spiel and then he. goes like hey if you handshake with me.

that you'll tell us if you're going to. go get I an. alari in Pakistan we'll do it and and so. so yeah like cuz I just thought he would. say you did this with him and lad and. we're not going to do work with you. that's what I think the whole. conversation is going he asked for a. handshake well luckily I'm not going to. just handshake people like I'm not I'm. just I'm not a liar right so luckily I. knew we were nowhere near getting zahiri. so I said hey I know we're not about to.

capture Z herei in Pakistan and said and. I shook his hand which is so funny. because I had no authority to shake his. hand and he said okay and then we start. planning for the operation it was one. meeting with isi to get them to restart. capture operations that was it man and. you triggered it yeah and the in the US. didn't even try. it cuz all boys over there they're. playing tennis yeah oh boy yeah that's a. whole another issue but yeah so yeah we. got Unice and then the funny part is we. um it actually became a big thing.

because we we went over to start meeting. to plan for Unice and then like press. came out that like the head of al-qaed. and karach who I knew really well cuz I. used to be the Karachi targeter was. captured so I go over I said hey this. guy was captured he's like oh yeah he's. here I said can we meet him he's like of. course so we started debriefing. al-qaeda's head of karach. just because we luckily were meeting. with isi again and he was in their. building and then um so Unice and team.

go to Southern Pakistan and I kid you. not their plan is to get on a boat I'm. not saying a ship a boat to Africa so a. couple of the guys are like you got to. be kidding me like this plan is crazy. and they Jet and they go back to where. stand like they like ditch Unice and so. all we have is that um some guy named. Dow is going to move him around um this. is this is a part I want to kind of. explain why you always collect.

information so a guy named Dow is going. to move him and so I said let's just. pick a dow like we need a starting point. in queta we we had no capture team. because they stopped captured so we talk. Cobble in descending like a person in. their their tool and they came over like. okay I'll be I'll be your capture team. so we had a capture team from cell and. um so we I said let's pick daba Denny so. he was basically ksm's brother-in-law. and he would just been released a few. months ago I said hey we know he's in.

queta he's important enough to where he. would facilitate him and I said I know I. saw in the past during cia's debriefing. program people mapped out his house so. we dug it all up and found the house and. then we went and asked the AQ guy that. we're now randomly meeting hey did you. know D did you ever go to his house he's. like yeah I've been to his house we like. does his family still live there because. you know that was so old right the US. probably mapped it out in 20 2002 and he. said yeah he still lives there and then.

we acted like we didn't know where it. was and we made a map it and it was the. exact same location and then we went and. got imagery and set it in front of him. and his eyes got all big cuz his. description wasn't good at all but he. was like how did they find this house. for my description right cuz he was like. it was down a street and there was a. school bus anyway so we Stag and start. at that location Unice was three blocks. from there he he was I doubt that D was. involved we took a guess and he was that. close to the location that we were able. to capture him wow is that crazy and.

it's all because long time ago cia's. amazing debriefing program that people. always give a hard time about when it. was the greatest collection of. counterterrorism information ever an old. piece of info from like 2002 or 2003. like helped us like do a a starting. point man that is amazing yeah and then. I do have a funny story so. I dated a cashmir for 5 years and it was. like getting a 101 into isi so by the.

time I got to Pakistan and I worked with. isi they were the exact same so. everything they did I knew like I always. knew all their games like I could. communicate with them perfectly because. I dated someone difficult just like them. for five years and so we get Unice and. we capture him in the South as you know. and we're all in is lamad so so they say. oh it's going to take us a week to get. them up there it's Eid this week you can. come the week after and start detaining.

the briefing so we go back up and of. course our station's like we got to. confirm they really have Unice. headquarters wants a confirmation so I. said I'm just going to show up and be. dumb and they're like what so on the. first day of Eid it was a Monday I talk. one of the other um station um targeters. in with me and I say yeah we're going to. drive over there we're going to pretend. we have a meeting and we're going to see. if Unice is there and he's like this is. never going to work we're going to get. in so much trouble and we went we went. and pulled up to the building and like. no one was working there was one guy in. the GU Tower and he goes like this I'm.

like let us in and so we get in the isi. compound we park no one's anywhere cuz. everyone's off we walk in the main doors. and there's a reception area no one's. working in the reception area and I look. at him and I I knew he was like dreading. what I was going to say I said we're. going down the det the detaining room so. we go down when they do the detaining. the briefings and we walk in the room. where the CCT video cameras and I turn. on all the TVs Unice is on the. TV a minder walks in the room and shuts. the TV off and then a couple minutes.

later an isi officer that notic us comes. out he's like what are you guys doing. here and I was like oh didn't we have a. meeting today and he's like no we told. you it's next week and I was like oh my. gosh I always get stuff confused and so. um we left and we went back we said hey. we saw Unice on camera he's in Islamabad. and the funny part is the next week when. we went there I asked that Colonel I. said what was Unice like like um and. he's like oh I haven't spoke to him yet. so the the minder never told him that we.

even saw Unice on. camera. so wow yeah so they spent that whole. week debriefing him and pretend he. wasn't even in um the city yet damn mhm. damn. well what was that like when you got. back to station you told them everyone. was so excited that it was really Unice. he's really unique looking so when we. saw on the camera it was 100% him so I. think everyone was really excited that. yes we got the right guy cuz there was.

still a lot of nervousness is isai. really going to do with this are they. going to let the guy go are they really. going to do this operation with us but. yeah it was all three of who we wanted. to get we got all three man that's. amazing yeah great work yeah well I mean. wasn't me all you had you was ask him a. question yeah well it was you but um. let's move into. Tripoli next on the Sha Ryan. show people are so lost that it is this.

big thing and it's all connected right. they want to ignore that and they want. to make Bazi this little thing on the. side that randomly happened when it's a. piece of the whole pie they want to. compartmentalize everything exactly what. was the narrative about this was there. was some kind of a cartoon that was made. the Los Angeles Times says they're. produced from an anti-islam movie that. sparked violent protest across the. Middle East is behind bars nakula nakula. was arrested Thursday Jake Sullivan made.

the video narrative right and then they. all jumped on board right so Obama did a. statement Hillary Clinton did a. statement Obama as everybody knows got. on a plane to Vegas to go see Beyonce. and Jay-Z it's like why did he not. cancel that trip and stay and make sure. his orders are followed up on right um. so Obama this is while The attack's. Happening. mhm yeah he flew to Vegas while the.

attacks were happening so we have a. depart we have an embassy in a CIA annx. under attack and the president of the. United States is flying to Vegas to meet. with Beyonce. yep you hear that. everybody. hey everybody I'm Shawn Ryan click here. to subscribe to the Sha Ryan Show.

YouTube channel for the hottest and most. compelling interviews that you will not. see anywhere else I've also made a. playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find you can. find that right. here.