Roger Reaves - Pablo Escobar and The Medellín Cartel's #1 Drug Smuggler | SRS #038

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the first night I got them they taste. amazing. and man I got a lot of energy now. anyways go to bubsnaturals.com use promo. code Sean. to take 20 off your order. thank you bubs Naturals for being a. sponsor of the Sean Ryan Show. hey everybody welcome back to the show. this week we have a very special guest. for you guys something completely.

different way out of the norm of what we. usually do. this guy spent over 30 years behind bars. and is still married to the same woman I. had the pleasure of meeting his. beautiful bride Mari. ladies and gentlemen Roger Reeves the. most prolific International drug. Smuggler in the world. is on the Sean Ryan Show he used to run. cocaine out of Columbia. for Pablo Escobar.

Ochoa and the Medellin cartel he ran. hashish out of Pakistan. he's run just about every kind of drug. you can think of from every nook and. cranny corner of the world. Roger Reeves it's a hell of a story if. you like this video please like. subscribe and leave a comment to the. channel and. you guys remember these. vigilance leap gummy bears they're.

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[Music]. Roger Reeves welcome to the show. Mighty Cloud to be here thanks for. thanks for making the trip I really. appreciate it so you're one of the most. prolific drug smugglers in the world. you broke out of prison five times. Moonshiner smuggled cocaine marijuana.

worked for Pablo Escobar the Medellin. cartel the Ochoa Brothers. is there anything you haven't done. I hope but. um man what a store I've been listening. to a lot of your podcasts lately uh. doing some research on you skim through. your book didn't have time to read it it. got a little late but um. but I cannot wait to dive in on this so.

once again I just really appreciate you. coming down you just asked the questions. and I'll try to answer them perfect well. everybody starts off with a gift here. and uh so here's the first part. those are uh vigilance Elite gummy bears. oh my goodness and. just regular gummy bears nothing funny. going on oh why we'll save that for. after the show okay good perfect okay. thank you thank you very much for that.

and then. because you spent so much time in. Colombia I got you. oh. what in the world is that that is. aguardiente. oh my God yeah I have had to drink that. a few times. [Laughter]. I tried to find the original. aguardiente but uh. after I drank that first I thought about.

going down to South America and opening. a a bourbon place and make him whiskey. because they need it back they. definitely need it but uh yeah it will. do the job it's hard to find guaro in. the middle of Tennessee very much you're. welcome we can crack into that at the. end but um but I just want to start I. want to get a little bit of your. childhood that's one thing I didn't hear. anything about in uh the stuff that I. read or listened to and so.

we'll start with childhood go through. your whole career into prison when you. got out and um that'll be it but all. right I'd born in Saint Augustine. hospital in the uh East Coast railroad. Hospital. back January 26 1943. my father worked. in a veneer meal my mother and uh. that was during the war effort they was. making boxes for shells to ship overseas.

and uh my great-grandparents had a big. farm up in Georgia in 1945 after the war. was over we moved up there that's. earliest memories I have was is going up. there on the train and all that uh. dining car and ride with my grandma and. I slept with my grandma from the time I. was just a little fella until I was 14. years old when she died so uh big old. feather bed so we moved up to Georgia to. a three mule Farm.

and uh things were things were wonderful. that moved I mean I'd I'd ride those. moves to the field and cry if I couldn't. go and I'd ride the plow with my daddy. plowing and he'd say it's hard right now. sit hard he made a little board on front. of the plow for me to hold and I put my. little butt down real hard I had to help. him put the plow in the ground and uh. life was great. and then my father started drinking. and he become an absolute hopeless. alcoholic but he's a wonderful man he's.

intelligent he was just but he just. loved that bottle better than he did. life how old were you when he became an. alcoholic I guess about eight or ten. years old and he's come come right only. he died by the time I was 17 years old. and uh so I had seven little brothers. and sisters. and uh. so my mother worked hard she worked hard. she hated his drinking and we lived in. the house with his mother my grandmother. I slept with and my grandma for some. reason got crossed with my mother and. they didn't speak all my life.

so uh. I uh I I kept I wanted a horse. and so. uh my grandma I'm gonna buy you a horse. Roger we gonna go to town we gonna buy. you a horse she just was sweet and. talking this so I kept telling my mother. about it and she said Roger your. Grandma's not gonna buy you horses hush. about it. Grandma mother said you ain't never. gonna buy me a horse. hey go get your Uncle G and we went to.

Fitzgerald Georgia and went to the mule. and horse lot and there he was a. beautiful Pinto back in the back they. said a little boy can't handle that boy. I didn't want nothing else. and they broke that horse. if 145 dollars. and man he was just way too mean for me. to handle so my daddy came out there and. tied him to a corner post he gave me a. switch said write him forever. to me in that Horse Road for a long time. with a three foot lead.

finally I got work a horse and I think. that toughened me up to life for that. little little horse really yeah I do I. really do that thing about me and I'd. bite him he bit me and I bit his ear and. he nearly jerked my head off. so that was life on the farm and uh. I cropped tobacco and hold and worked in. the field hard I mean I I would and we. had three mules and then later on we got. a John Deere tractor pop pop you could. hear it a mile if anybody quit flowering.

you could know he quit. so my daddy died when I was 17 years old. and he died from an aneurysm and one day. in this terrible sad thing for a man 54. years old with seven little brothers. children and seven they called us in one. by one he just came in the morning he. came in and sat down and it was in his. stomach it it had blown out and uh so I. don't want to delge into the sadness but. anyway it was really sad and he they. come in uh they said he can't live. so he said goodbye to all of us he told.

me uh I don't mind son died that you can. help your mom in these little little. sisters and brothers you have. so uh I tell that story to say that uh. a most unusual thing happened there. shortly thereafter that I had a sister a. year younger now when she was 16. there's a fellow from across the river. big fella he uh asked her out on a date. there's two of the guys we knew him. so they took her out and her cousin. Barbara and they went to the Picture. Show and it was all nice and.

afterwards. she came in all clothed up her clothes. up bloody on around her neck and her. Fitness so wow she said they took her. out and tried to rape her one of them. said on her head and the other one tried. to tear her clothes and. wow well what in the world to do. I didn't have a car or any way to go but. I knew I was had to do something. so the next day I walked down to a. little village of Jacksonville Georgia. and there was Stanley Wells.

and uh. hit Daddy on him owned a little store. and he had an old Chrysler and he said. you want to ride across the river to the. skating rink. not sure Stanley just right across there. we went across and there was that man. roller skating with a woman in a long. white dress they was going around around. the corners. so I just went up and paid my dime for. one of them large coca-colas and I dried. it off. I didn't say nothing to nobody and I. walked out and when he came by I hit him. in between the eyes with the bottom of.

that Coca-Cola bottle and it ranged his. head. and I run along beside him and kind of. rearranged his face the only guy that. owned the uh. skating rink Bill Newman he came along. grabbed my arm and fell down in all the. blood and broke his glasses and. everybody's the whole world just stopped. they must have been 100 skaters and that. it's a cotton candy world just kept. playing. oh man and they come with a knife and I. thought oh I grabbed that bottle and. somebody cut his skates off to drag him. out of all that mess.

and so I walked out and they said why. did you do it Roger and I said April. Fool it was the first day of April no. [ __ ] my sisters couldn't get a date. after that well that's probably a good. thing so that was my first brush with. the law wow yeah. so when did you when did you. start studying to become a pilot. uh a backup there I went on um tell you. about how I met Mari over there okay I.

uh. uh it was like in The Grapes of Wrath. and John Steinbeck they was advertising. for tobacco Harvesters we called it crop. in tobacco yet you crop it take the. leaves off three or four at the time is. it ripened you have to look at the stalk. and tell what it is. and uh I was raised on the tobacco farm. so I knew how so they was paying 20 a. day room and board in Canada okay that. was after our season finish down in. Georgia. a lot of the boys here from South North. Carolina went up there also and during.

those years. and so uh it was 20 a day and so it was. like you could make six or seven hundred. dollars a year in six weeks in Canada in. Canada after hours finished that was a. that was a huge amount of money why was. everybody going to Canada to grow. tobacco. Dutch and the belgiums they found out. that it would grow just north of uh Lake. Erie it's kind of the banana belt of. Canada okay and it was just like 200. miles of solid tobacco and huge tobacco. Barns and beautiful and it was beautiful.

farms and so but they had so much. tobacco they didn't have people to. harvest it so they advertised all far. and wide. so I hitchhiked up there and uh I uh. after after a few a week or so you get. rid of the sand lugs and you go really. fast and so we could we'd finish by 22. o'clock in the afternoon and then I. would pull suckers and so I make thirty. dollars a day they pay you by the road. so some of the boys came from an air. neighboring farm and said Raj you want.

to go to the fair is a fair in. Tillsonburg and I said sure I took a. shower every evening after I came in in. the greenhouse anyway and I put on a. pair of black snakes and a shirt and off. to the carnival we went. well what a place it was first we went. to the hoochie coochie show for 50 cents. and I'd never seen anything like that it. was just delightful so then we're going. down the road and there's a man a great. big fella with a long flowing beard he. must have weighed 350 400 pounds five.

brand new one hundred dollar bills. anybody to wrestle my bear and get all. four feet off the ground. ten dollars to anybody that's got guts. enough to give it a try. what's your name young man Roger Reeve. how much you weigh Roger. 145 pounds. 145 pound man against 600 pound Beast. and the crowds flocking in. the opened that circus door that little. circus wagon and threw me in with that.

little black bear. and when that Blackberry y'all are. getting up he wasn't little at all. so I ran into that bear and uh we we had. a round of two but the pair one and I. lost most of my clothes and I asked the. man for my money and he told me to go to. hell I'd hurt that bear. I couldn't work for two days. so I went down out Sunday and I went. down to the uh Turkey Point on the beach. at Lake Erie and I walked out on the.

pier and uh. there was three girls sitting on a. on a towel I tipped my hat to one of. them and. it was Mari and it was 60 years ago a. little over 60 years ever since yes you. guys have been together for 60 years. congratulations that's amazing so I took. Murray Back Down to Georgia. and she'd come from Holland and lived in. Canada and to bring her down to that. heat and then flies and ticks and. rattlesnakes.

that would read in a swamp area where. I'm from. back or feel that that was something. else. so uh. Purina company had. really promoted chicken business down. there and so I got my mom at a Mortgage. Firm and we put in 36 000 laying hens. and that was just about the time that uh. the curve was over it was going down the. other side so every time we picked up a. dozen eggs we lost a nickel oh so it.

wasn't long before we seventy eight. thousand dollars in debt feed to Purina. company and looked like the farm might. be go to the bank yeah. so I decided to turn some of that. chicken feet into moonshine. so I started making moonshine whiskey. and I got up to a thousand gallons a. week you were making a how old are you. at this point. 24 25 years old 24 25 years old making a. thousand gallons of moonshine wake up. sell it for three dollars a gallon cost. me maybe about a gallon to make a dollar.

a gallon makes I'm making two thousand. dollars every week ten days going to the. temperature of the weather what year is. this. 1966 67. so but they were it was legal over in. Florida. but they'd shooting Kitty over in. Georgia if they caught you so anyway. they're still we one of the bottles got. too close to the steel they called it. puking when it gets a little bit hot. it'll Boom the sides come out in one of. those big uh butane bottles. got knocked over and there's 200 of them.

and it looked like World War II with. flamethrowers done oh man they going off. and I went back after I got the fire out. I went back to the house and I was. eating it was behind our house and uh. after after all of them blowing up my. death I thought for him he was blowing. it up and I ran back to him but it. wasn't so I drew took a hole and pulled. those tanks all into a creek it was cold. so uh. we heard.

Mario run to the back window there well. I was eating a second breakfast. and I let me look she said just waiting. on the favor he's he's chasing lies he's. chasing lice he fell down his his hat. fell off we knew the deputy share. she's getting away. anyway they brought The Bloodhounds out. and oh boy uh. so uh that was over but then I started. up again and then and then uh Feller.

turned me in and I I had to I had to run. from him too and The Bloodhounds after. me and they blew my still up again had. to swim across the creek and oh. everybody knew it was me how long how. long were you making moonshine before. you got caught about a year a year. so then we was ashamed to go to church. we ashamed to go to town everybody. pointed their finger it was all in the. news it covered Dixie like to do the. front page of the Atlanta Journal well. so and uh.

so the the long chain men came and took. my tractor they took my truck I had a. big old 10-wheeler they took that they. just I mean I'd have nothing I was. paralyzed broke yeah and I what in the. world can we do my sister was out there. from California Roger they they need. laborers out there they making seven. dollars an hour so we went out to. California so I said when I quit running. I was in I was in Redondo Beach. California and I went to work uh doing. construction. Framing and so.

I I mean it was killing me doing that. frame and there was a electrician there. an Italian man he said Roger why don't. you be electrician I said I don't know. much about it he said I'll teach you so. every day at lunch he would say this is. flex here's how you cut it and here's a. handy box this is a 4S box and this is. that and he so he taught me whatever he. said no go get some used tools and go. down to Wilmington and sign the right to. workbook. so I died went down signed it they sent. me out on the job and they never knew I.

wasn't a real electrician I worked there. two years and then I got on the Redondo. Beach Fire Department and uh I was real. happy with that job so I continued to do. the electrical work and then I'm buying. I was one of the first Pickers I'd go. down into the Los Angeles area where. that uh the people were moving out and. getting rather slummy and I'd park my. truck and I'd walk a block or two just. on the corner and I mean within an hour. or two I'd have it completely loaded.

with junk and antique not junk but and I. take it down to Antique Road and make me. 200 and I'd be home and that was my days. off from the fire department. so I made a. made quite a bit of money then I came. back here just across the river and you. might not know but uh. the settlers when they came from New. York and Atlanta wherever they came on a. train you're to to the river and then. they had to take a ferry across and then. they they put it into wagons on the.

other side and those wagons were. Studebakers the ones that went across. the Schooners and later on they made the. cars but anyhow that's what their wagons. are good wagons they took well they. couldn't get half of the stuff that they. brought on the train into those little. wagons. so they left pieces here by the millions. really so I started holding it back I. had other firemen here. buying it for me and putting it in a big. barn and I'd fly once a month and rent a. truck and take it back. and I was bouncing like along the. highway there with a load of those.

Antiques and I was reading the National. Geographic paper and magazine and it. said that mercury was 13 times higher in. the more expensive in the United States. it was Mexico and I told my friend Mike. they were driving I said I believe I'll. go down and get me some of that mercury. and he said man that'll that's too heavy. to knock a hole in the bottom of your. airplane I had a little airplane then. and so uh you were flying I I by that. time I'd backed up I forgot to tell you. so I'll back up and tell you I started. flying in Georgia I had read a book.

called jungle pilot. and that is about Nate Saint and how he. had a a bad knee and he couldn't fly in. World War II but he was a Christian so. he wanted to he saw about the. missionaries and how that they took. sometimes they'd take two or three weeks. to walk out to get their mail and to get. their medicine and so he wanted to help. those people so he got a little little. cub. and he started flying him and he would. he would I don't know where he's in. Borneo or South America but he put a.

rope out and he'd put a bucket with a. lid on it and like a cowboy can take a. rope and do that he'd put the bucket. right at their feet as he circled. and they'd say I need penicillin and. he'd give them their their little mail. and they'd put the mail back in he'd. wind it back up and I thought oh boy I. would just love to do something like. that I'm not worthy to be a preacher but. I could certainly help those people and. do it so I learned to fly in a little. airplane called death trap wrote down. the trap a 700 airplane holy cow so.

uh uh but that's how I learned so now. then I things didn't work out like I was. planning. and so now I go out and I'm on fire. department and I do the Antiques and I. and I bought an airplane I bought two or. three of them and traded them off until. now I got assessment 182 pretty nice. little twin engine airplane still my. favorite for a family plane it just it's. just the Volkswagen of the sky just does. it yeah so uh.

I said what does it pay he said I don't. know I'll introduce you to someone say. we met a fella he was so nice he was. paralyzed I didn't realize start with a. beautiful boy he spoke Spanish said you. got an airplane. they said you would fly some pot I said. I don't know what do you pay I see what. the deal is let me introduce you to. somebody so introduce me to this guy. Wild Bill they're a nice looking young. man he said I'll give you ten thousand. dollars to fly down there and bring some. pot back I said let's go did you ask how. much pot. well you can't put much in there but as.

big as there's two chairs in the back. seat you know so okay it wasn't a very. big airplane were you were you nervous. at all not a bit not a bet not a bid. I've been going down there flying we're. getting fishing in Baja and stuff you. fly back sometime it'd be dark I decided. not even stop for the Border ain't. nobody bother you there's nothing. separating Mexico and California or the. United States but a barbed wire fence it. was nothing okay so I went down there. and flew a load and come back.

guy gave me ten thousand dollars and I. took it home and I didn't need that. money I had two houses a nice car an. airplane what in the world beautiful. wife two little girls. just just something to do it sort of. thing and so but that was a lot of money. ten thousand dollars just to fall in. your pocket at that time. so I shook it on the bed and my wife put. her hand over her mouth like oh my. goodness the baby grabbed some hundred. dollar bills and was crawling around. with them and we just laughed. until my wife let's go out to dinner. well we go out here if we wanted to we.

just didn't we just you know working. people. so we went I said don't you dare look at. the right hand side just look at the. just look at whatever whatever you got. on the list so we put that money in the. lock box and I went to see a lawyer and. I put a hundred dollar bill on his desk. and I said Mr lawyer I got one question. if I got caught bringing marijuana back. from Mexico and my airplane what would. they do what would the penalty be. he said what's your criminal history I. said I don't have one he said nothing I. said I've never even had a speeding.

ticket I didn't even had a parking. ticket my whole life. he said you work on a fire department. right yes sir he said well. for sure you'd get probation. but the worst if it the worst happened. to worse you'd get one year and you'd. spend four months raking leaves on some. military camp. I said not any that's that's pretty good. odds so I went and bought me a Cessna. 207 a really big session the biggest. thing made back then so I could only. make forty thousand dollars a day so I.

told Marty I said we're gonna make four. hundred three hundred thousand dollars. and we're going back to the farm and. we're going to farm. and it was like a thermometer with a. match under it I made 300 000 a quick. time. you turn your head no Don I'm a couple. of months I had it how much was this new. Cessna you remember uh yeah I paid 55. 000 for a used one you could get it it. was 207 with the wing off had to put the. wing back on you can't fly damn so uh.

I uh I bought me a new Cadillac like an. idiot. [Music]. it was pretty so I called my mother my. baby sister I said come at you I got. something to show you so they flew out. and I flew him out and I took him to. Disneyland. and so my mother looked at me kind of. funny and she was a sport now. and she said what you doing boy I said. I'm hauling pot ma she said how much you. making I stopped making forty thousand.

dollars any day I want to go down there. my goodness what would they do if they. catch you and I told her what the lawyer. said. I said what do you think Ma she said do. you need a co-pilot son. oh man. so that's how my marijuana Day started. wow it was just so I was just. the maximum sentence would have been. five years. and and it was just like they were. nothing DEA wasn't even started they.

were just nothing to stop you if you. went across the border with your. airplane and cleared Customs at the. first place and got the permit for the. airplane you could fly in Mexico just. like it was a Mexican plane for six. months fly back and forth with that if. you run out of gas now to go into town. just show that and you just welcomes as. any tourist wow how many. how many ten thousand dollars did you. only do one ten thousand dollars I did. two Thin thousand dollars and I went to.

forty thousand dollars and then I went. to uh I bought a twin Beach airplane. and I I guess I must have made sixty or. seventy thousand dollars a trip on that. I always just flew it for somebody else. I didn't like to buy it I didn't like to. sell it I did a little bit but I just. was absolutely a trucking company and so. I must I did it over 100 times you did. it over a hundred times three times were. you ever. you were never nervous it was so relaxed. back then well it was LAX but I got shot. down twice and so I'll get to that a.

little bit later but I'd like to tell. you how I how I. come about being able to do it and not. get caught. uh. they formed the DEA and and they they. put up trucks. across the southern border between. Mexico and the United States probably on. every little Hill or a lot of them and. they had a little radar on those trucks. and they called it operation Star Trek. and they caught lots and lots of planes.

coming across. really so I said oops I can't go across. there. so I thought where don't they come. across and they don't come across. between San Diego and Hawaii. they don't have them out there. so I started I started flying and uh way. out through I'd come up and um. there was a place in Central Baja that I. have to tell you about and I call it.

one's goat Ranch. 22 22 minutes south. west of amulah hay. and it was over 20 miles to the nearest. road and it was a goat Ranch where they. made cheese. and 20 miles to the nearest road to the. nearest Road yes. and it was a beautiful Runway many many. years ago they used to hold meat out of. there when somebody had a huge Ranch. there. and and muskies treats just sick all. over the place it's just beautiful and I.

would land there and the doves would. just fly out just like it was in in a. movie it was so pretty and I would land. there and and this guy won would come up. on his mule riding fast and I'd unload. the load we put it under the muskete. trees and he'd he would uh look after it. all day and I'd fly into mulay they'd. wash my plane and clean the windshield. and fill it up with gas and I'd eat and. barbecue or whatever was there and I'd. get a room and take a nap for a few. hours then I'd fly back out to the goat. Ranch and we'd load the plane back up.

and I'd take off heavy and go out and. there's some islands 200 miles off the. coast of Baja called Guadalupe. and uh. I would go over Guadalupe Island and. then I would go Northwest out of there. and so when I came to the board of the. United States I was 300 miles off the. coast of San Diego okay and I put it. right down on the deck. so when I came in there was. a quarter inch of salt on my windshields. wow so and I would uh then I would fly.

all the way up to the behind the Santa. Barbara Islands uh Santa Rosa and I. would come in late in the afternoon just. about dark and I'd come up from a Runway. there and I'd pull it right up and just. fly like I'd just taken off from there. and I'd go out to the desert and unload. and never ever had a one ounce of. problems except with airplanes sometimes. nothing nothing how many. how many pounds of power do you care.

from 22 to 2500 pounds at a time 2500. pounds yeah and then I got a DC3 and I'd. carry three tons three tons yeah. how many pounds is three times. how long does it take to unload six. thousand pounds of pot not long I'm. feeling like what you can throw it out. of there real quick must be one hell of. a two-wheeler he back truck back up then. we had rollers just put it on there and. just put those rollers up at 20 minutes.

it was done. how how did you know did you always know. who you were picking up from yeah I was. partners with okay and uh College. Partners except he was stealing more. than his share but. and he it was his responsibility to load. it and to sell it and I didn't have. anything to do with it who was who was. paying the bills was it Mexican cartel. airplane was about fifty thousand.

dollars well I meant who was paying your. paycheck was it a Mexican cartel here it. was real simple I. now he would load it and bring it up and. he had a fellow that unloaded it that. drove the truck and they took it to town. they had a guy sell it and it was some. oh it would just go disappear just like. Zip people be mad with you if you didn't. save them some more like they come right. next week why didn't you bring me up man. I wanted to you know this is not another. it was that's how it sold and it was no.

problem at all wow. so you and uh so I I he was always he. was trying to uh build a big restaurant. down in Mazatlan he didn't want to pay. me I'd go and had to go and run him down. to get my share of it I just give you. fifty thousand dollars last week I said. you didn't give me nothing you just paid. me what you owe me man my part of. and I'll tell you about that fella. that's the most unusual thing in the. world.

uh I hired a pilot to fly for me. and him and that pilot got together and. decided to cut me out. um. so. he had a fellow work for him named Peter. and I've never been talked to so ugly in. my life you said on your Powerpuff ass. in Santa Barbara you out of the deal. well you owe me about three hundred. thousand dollars and they had my DC3. and. and no no you you are the deal we got.

your pilot we got your plane and we got. you contacting bye bye don't come down. here we'll dust you for a nickel. oh really well I hate to see this. because I'm not a violent man I never. went to shoot nobody in my life but that. was just a little bit too much to. swallow. so I had an old leather suitcase and I. had a nine. nine millimeter Brown and high power and. a 38 bits fifth weapon I put them both. in there and I took off to the airport. in Los Angeles well I got to the airport.

there were no flights to Mazatlan that. night. so I had to go to Houston I believe it. wasn't change planes. and when I got there there was a. terrible thunderstorm that plane I mean. the wings almost touched the ground. straight to run away and bounced down. that Runway and finally got stopped and. just flooded all night long. and I went down and my suitcase didn't. come. so I went down there two or three times. and night see if it had come in it. didn't come in so the next morning I.

knew I was gonna have to go buy a new. suitcase and new guns and start over. again so I called down there to tell. them just hold your horses I'm on my way. so I call down in that Peter and said oh. no Roger All Roger somebody shot and. killed Mark last night. God had somebody kill him in my place no. way surely did. interesting the only time I ever picked. up armed from anybody.

damn interesting any idea who did it. yeah we know exactly who did it the guy. that we uh bought marijuana from was a. guy named Roberta he was a nicest man. you could imagine he just was just a. farmer that put it together him and his. brothers and we could get it from them. and he'd give a lot of credit he didn't. care and he had a bunch of ranches out. and so this Mark was building a Elephant. Bar and Grill he needed a couple of. million dollars so he was slow on paying. him he's slow on paying me and he was.

doing what his thing was I I kind of. understood it I wasn't mad with Mark. but uh. so I guess Roberta was drinking that. Saturday night and he's since uh three. of his Cowboys and when Mark closed up. his place he went across the street. there well I understand it and the. cowboy says Hey the boss wants to see. you now I'm a boss. so one of them pulled a pistol out says. the boss wants to see you and Mark was a. tough guy he just reached and took the.

guys pistol away from him and shot him. and the other boys jumped on me took the. pistol and shot and killed mark. you're right right there in the street. so that's how that happened it was just. so. nobody wanted to hurt anybody I mean it. was just like Roberta still didn't want. to kill nobody I was taken off of my. airplane one time and and the. Federalists came and they shot Roberta. down and he spent five years in kuya. Khan kept his mouth shut wow I just I.

was just taking off. let's hear about that. that was all it was to it that's it. that's it. loaded up I was there and they just. swarmed in on them while he was leaving. is that when you got shot down no I got. shot down another time I'll tell you. about that that was that was Lively that. was in Mexico yes same time period uh a. little bit before this is back when I. had the 207 the the long the bigger. signal engine plane.

uh. there was a a little village a starving. Village starving donkeys where I'd got a. contract to buy the marijuana. and uh had an ugly little hair Man Came. walking. that said he had the Federalist paid off. you know but you know so. I uh I'd land down that little village I. had about an eight or nine hundred foot. runway in a Oxbow of a river in the. river wasn't as deep as knee-deep but it.

was just beautiful Cactus out there and. even all the fences were made with. cactus so goat couldn't even get through. and uh I'd land there on that little. sand bed on the bend of the river and. just up there was a waterfall it was. pretty it was not hybridized this. ceiling here just enough to just be. picturesque and I but I couldn't take. off of the load and Mari would uh. get all kind of toys and and. goodies and candies and red apples what.

the children like I saw how starving. there was hey they had nothing I mean. they were just poverty and I'd bring. that airplane down loaded with this. goodies of these candies and little toys. and give it to those children and I. noticed every week there was more and. more children they was hearing about. that American Santa Claus coming. so I think that might have been my. undoing so I remember I did 12 loads in. a row. and uh on that 13 I had that little.

thing going off in the thing of your. stomach ding ding ding ding don't do it. don't do it. and I landed it so I I uh the children. were there by by the gobs so I landed. about halfway down the strip. and I went by the starving donkeys and. up the road to their place. and I asked this small King. do you have the Federalist paid off oh. yes they're completely paid off. so I spent the night in a hammock in. this barn-like structure and the donkeys.

praying and the roosters growing and the. next morning it just did daylight dream. before daylight they'd wake me up and. we'd walk down to my airplane which was. a quarter of a mile I reckon. and uh I'd brushed my teeth in that. River and and they had a young fella uh. Pedro that he didn't probably weigh 120. pounds and he'd get into playing with me. we'd we'd fuel up the night before I'd. take fuel with me. and uh then he would show me where they. had a roadblock so he'd take off and I'd. take off of that empty airplane I'd go.

20 30 miles or maybe and they would. block a road when he had a two-ton truck. and he'd come out with all the guns on. it and they'd blocked the road and then. you'd see about a mile up there another. big truck could come across and block it. and the road would be clear and I'd land. between them and they'd come up with a. truck and put the marijuana in the. airplane and I'd shake hands with all. and I'd get in the truck and take over. off over the other one okay so you were. landed in the highway I landed in the. highway because that was the only place. down there that was on the runway long. enough to take over the loot like that. yeah we didn't have any place that you.

could take off so I'm always on the. highway and sometimes they wouldn't be. six inches from the wheels on that side. to the to the little berms I had to keep. it right dead center. and uh. so that morning when we got into plain. deal I was going to taxi back to the end. to start. I thought a wheel blew out they kind of. stick out there and I'm looking and. Pedro was yelling police see him police. see you Roger Felicia and it dawned on. me oh but I don't want none of this so I.

just pushed it to the Fireball and I. only had a full 500 feet in front of me. and I went tearing off down that Dusty. Sandy place and uh. when I got to the end of it I pulled up. real strong. and just hoping it would fly off I had. to and it took off and it was just. hanging on a stall on its nose. and they riddled that airplane with. machine guns I mean it was 80 bullet. holes in there one took the top of my. head creased it took my kneecap off took.

the end of my toe off oh you got shot I. got shot three times three times yeah. and uh Pedro I didn't see it at the time. I told you but anyway. uh the airspeed indicator just went away. that's what I was looking at to see. where I was and it's what I was watching. at the time it just disappeared. and the bullets went up above me of my. head they was all over I don't know how. I didn't die and they shredded up the. top and the wings are high and the. gasoline from that left wing was just. pouring in on me like just pouring it.

out of a bucket it was all over me and. somehow another it scared me so bad. until times almost stopped things turned. yellow the only time in my life I was. that's crisis I thought I was fixing to. burst into flames any second yeah those. bullets was hitting so hard it was like. a hail storm and it was over just like. that could you see him down there. shooting I didn't see them see them. shooting them because it was I went. through them now I'm I'm up and end and. I looked ahead of me and the river is.

maybe 18 inches deep or so and it looks. like it's huge turtles. on the river those rocks had made shapes. you know how diamonds and other stuff. make they're just laying there in that. River like that and I pull that power. and I cut the electricity off so that. there wouldn't be any Sparks hopefully. until I could get down there I knew I. was fixing to die. and I hit bam I hit hard and the wings. came off and then it bounced again and. when it bounced the next time the whole.

firewall under came under the airplane. and I'm sitting in the middle of the. river and I'm not I guess unconscious. because Pedro's hitting me in the ribs. come on Roger come on Roger. well I'm doing my seat belts and stepped. out. and now there's four Federalists running. down the runway and they're quite a ways. from me and they're still shooting they. [ __ ] the plane twice while we start. well it just happened so that I had that. nine millimeter tape to the top of the. radio so I'd have it in case of crashing. in a jungle or whatever.

well I just reached now it's just there. in the holster in the most conspicuous. place and I popped a few black down to. run away and they ran into. they ran into rocks I didn't see defense. rallies no more. when the rabbit got the gun the farmer. he run oh my gosh so we took off down. the singing and I looked in Pedro's. footage ruined it came under his it went. in AK-47s came in his ankle and blew it. out the other side it wasn't even.

bleeding it was just White. so my goodness gracious so I want to go. he said no no we got to go up the hill. Federal is to go down here the easy. place let's go up so we went up and got. into a path of cactus there's a big old. Cactus area everywhere and there was a. donkey she must have been 30 years old. with long hair and Pedro just runs up to. her Charlotte and starts spitting her. and we jump on the back of that donkey. and we go for several hours a couple.

hours and we come to a place um. a little a little farm a white house and. a clearing it's just like where the. indigenous people you will just make a. place for themselves and the trees was. down and it had been burned and a man. was plowing there and he had a uh he had. a cow and a little Mew in the uh and the. thing over the neck was sideways like. this and he had a little plow and he was. plowing with him trying to make him a. living and Pedro knew him so then he put.

us in his house and his wife and his. daughter went there and and he went for. help. so uh we were there all day long and and. the woman got some cloth and put over. our wounds I remember on my head and. then she poured diesel over all over it. she stopped it but it didn't keep the. flies on anyhow we sat there all day. long I mean just in a straight chair all. day long I guess I was in some kind of. shock. and about dark. are you worried about anything. I wasn't worried I did you weren't.

worried about going well there was a. hunting rifle on that wall and I wanted. to go back up with it and take care of. business tell you the truth but I must. have been out of my mind but somebody. shooting me I hate particularly in favor. of them but uh. so late in the afternoon a bunch of. horses and mules come walking fast up. into that yard. might have been 20 of them they was help. come and they was a young man there he. spoke English Dr Benjamin so-so here's a.

Red Cross doctor from 20 30 miles away. and he came in there and boy he gave his. tetanus shots and gave me a big shot of. morphine and same thing for Pedro and. that that these things up right quick. and uh he worked as a slug into my foot. back in the ankle bone he looked for. that for a while I think he did more. damage looking than the slug did but uh. he says you've got to get to you got to. get to hospital and Pedro you'll die if. you don't get to hospital quick. and he said they got the roads blocked.

all the way North they're looking for an. American pilot that they think's dead. there was so much blood blood in that. airplane. so he said you've got to go south. he knew you were a pilot oh he knew I. was going to see me come for the help. he's got the story so when he said it's. all over he said there's roadblocks. everywhere. so these three these are platoon of. soldiers in here looking for you. so we I got on a horse a mule I don't. know and we rode a long way and we came. to a road a dirt road and there was a.

big 10-wheeler truck and it was loaded. full of corn corn in the shuck. and they dug holes on one side for me. and that corn I got down in it and then. on the other side they dug one for Pedro. and these people sitting all over the. truck Nursery big sombreros and uh that. truck that that. Road was rough and every time that truck. would roll that corner rolled over my. face and they'd dig me back out we must. have rode 20 miles and we came to the. highway and we run through three. roadblocks soldiers all over it nobody.

said a word. so he came to the road. they took me in a house. and stripped me off and got me some I. remember the pan had a little chip in it. I went to change the water 20 times to. get the blood and just screw it off of. me from all day and all that stuff. I finally it got clean they put got me. some clothes and put on me and uh so. they needed a. taxi to take me to Guadalajara I don't. know how much how long is but it took. all night so the long way.

so they had to go to Mazatlan to find a. taxi and so finally they had to find. hard to find one that would go that far. with somebody they said finally they. come up with a brand new car. and they made a bed in the back seat for. me and laid me up there and that dog to. give me and they'd give me those pills. and I was I was buzzing so uh the the. man was a dwarf what kind of pills what. do they do I get something morphine or. something to keep something. I was shot that was I was hurting and. one was in in the in the middle of my.

foot were lodged in there it was it was. it was rough running right in the joint. of the ankle boom so uh I uh I got in. the back seat and I lay down in there. and he started off to Guadalajara and he. was a small man dwarf and he talked all. night and I'd like to tell you what he. said. I said uh I said do you have a family. he's oh I have a lovely family let me. tell you about my beautiful wife Doran. how I got her.

he said I was in the village and you. know look at me no girl would even look. at me but I had my eye on this girl. across the way. and one day she's playing the flute in. the back of the band and she comes by. and I go out and I grab her and I pull. her in the gate and my mother helps me. pull her in the house. and I tell her I love her. but she sat straight in that chair all. night and won't even look at us. it's a Senor the next morning what could. I do I have to send her home.

so I sent her home and I follow her at a. distance and she knocks on her father's. door her door and her father get away. from here you prostitute you spent the. night with some man you know daughter of. mine get away from that door. so Dora left with her hair head hanging. low. and I went up and said Dora let's go. talk to the Padre. in Senor that's how I got my beautiful. wife Dora. he said and you won't believe it but one.

year later we have a beautiful boy. and I would die driving a new Ford. so we named him Ford. hey senior the next year we have another. boy. in that year I just bought me a new. Dodge so we named him Dodge. [Music]. and Seno I know you're not going to. believe it but the third year. we had another boy and I had just bought. a new Chevrolet and that priest wouldn't.

name him chivalry I had to teach that. son of a [ __ ] to drive before he'd name. him Chevrolet and that's how I got my. three boys four dodging Chevrolets oh my. gosh so you see some of the Tails out. there in there all true yeah they just. unbelievable. you also went to prison in Mexico. yes is that around this time yes it's. right during that time right after that.

time I uh I'd paid 17 000 to walk walk. in for that load that I didn't get. so I went back down to get my load and I. had a fella an older guy that I said. bring me an airplane and we'll go. partners he had he had he had an. airplane. I said now here's five thousand dollars. you landed the Le the. the strip just south of uh Hermosillo is. a huge cattle feedlot and you give them. five thousand dollars both ways and. they'll give you all the gasoline you.

want. so he wasn't paying attention. he landed the international and tried to. give him five thousand dollars. he did what. can you repeat that so I'm I'm at a real. nice five-star hotel and uh. a gentleman I was I had a phony name. Ardell and he really nice looking. gentleman you never dreamed it and he. said are you Mr hard Dale sir I was in. the swimming pool.

I said yes sir he shook at me and put. handcuffs so. and he took me to jail. they all came over and took me to jail I. went one of them got some clothes and. they took me in there of course they. took my clothes in my suitcase at 300 in. my wallet and the guy took a blackjack. and took that from him when I went so I. didn't have nothing. so I stayed there about about three days. in a cage and sometimes 18 people in. that little room and no it's filthy. and uh then they took me back to the.

back and started to torture the deal. if they want you to confess. they they don't wait around for the. court they make you confess. so and then then when you confess you. get to go before the judge and he'll. give you two three four five six years. if you don't they can keep you up for. four years. for a while Major Crimes they call it. you know so uh. I uh first off I went back there and. they just put me in a Cell about six.

foot square and 14 feet high and it was. really hot I mean hot over 100 degrees. there at that time. so I heard a torture and carrying on the. begging and the crying and stuff out. right in front of me they do that to. soften you up so they don't have to work. so hard on you. so then then they come got me and uh. they they keep you naked they put you in. there naked and that supposed to take. take away your. [Music]. so they took me out and wanted me to. sign it and they they started off on the.

bottom of my feet with blackjacks and. rubber holes and they beat me yellow and. so I was I wasn't about to sign that. thing with a beatnut so uh. they got a a tub of water and they had. some kind of I guess that was the first. water board that they ever did and they. had some kind of Seltzer in that order I. mean if you go whiff of it it took the. top of your head off your eyes stung in. your nose and ears I guarantee you. three of them couldn't hold you down. so I found out just before that happened.

you you scream you carry on just like. that and get a good whiff of air that. didn't work. so uh. they they came after a while and and uh. took me out naked and they changed them. a little click click click then they. pulled me apart and they put butter or. something on my backside and they just. packed me full of Hot Chili Pepper. ground up and they just they showed it. to you and just with that thumb just. poked poked my colon full of it I mean. that was some kind of terrible now just.

it's common they do it yeah so anyway I. begged and cussed and carried on to them. finally they washed it out but I didn't. do it and then they came and uh I don't. know if it's that day or the next but. they hung a dead man in the cell with me. and he was frozen. and he was wrapped in uh. wrapped in newspaper strips of it like a. mummy from his feet all the way to his. head. and they put him on a meat hook into a. boat on the side of the wall and hung. him there so you next son of a [ __ ] you.

next. and and all right dead man to sail with. me okay but. so but then he started to throw out. it was so hot the first thing to throw. out was looked like his eyes and the. paper rush started unrun he was a black. man and he started running down his face. the tears looked like for the. formaldehyde running out of him oh man. then stuff started unwrapping off of his. private parts and it looked like he was. peeing on the floor.

and it puddled down there oh what an. awful smell and then as he opened up you. could see the the hook was on his ribs. here and it pulled it apart you could. see his liver good and clear. yeah. so how long is all this pardon how many. hours is this days no just one day one. day yes okay but I there was a little. hole it wasn't even maybe a quarter inch. under the door and thing was filthy they. were blood spatters crap all over the. floor it was a filthy place I lay down. in there naked on under there and I put.

my lip just as far as I could on that. door trying to breathe. and I had the the darnish dreams you've. ever seen or hallucinations I was. sleeping completely and I had I remember. the pink flying pigs they were really. pink with big wings they were just. flying around and whenever I came to. I didn't know which was real and which. was the uh which was a hallucination or. the because and so but I didn't really. come to they took me to the hospital and. I woke up then I had an oxygen mask over.

me and you woke up in the hospital yeah. and from infirmary and there was a a. doctor there and he was concerned that. they had gone too far that I was going. to die from that formaldehyde fixture. so they put me then and put me into. general population and I stayed out. there for a while until my wife came. down and paid to bribe and I got out. went out the back door. what did your wife think about all this. I don't know did you ever ask her she. was glad she's glad I got home all that.

was she upset not particularly she just. I did it so many times and I think that. she just had such faith in me that she. just thought surely he can do it. I I think it was and she just never took. it so and it was marijuana at that time. and it wasn't wasn't any big deal in the. United States and I was everywhere we. went I was a hero did you tell her. everything that happened to you when. they were torture she she made. sandwiches for me and I get love notes. you know I'd be eating one of them and.

there was a little dog note in that. thing so see what's going on I didn't. tell her exactly what I'm doing I mean. yeah she knew what I was doing but yeah. I didn't have I didn't let her get close. to it nothing not even know so she can. not guilty in any way okay but uh there. was there was about half of the people. in California voted for the referendum. to legalize that stuff way back there in. early 70s so there was there's nobody. mad at me not not in my side of the. fence anyway yeah. did.

your wife want you to keep. making these trips no she she didn't. want to she want me to quit but I had. such a real estate deals going I just. had to keep supporting. he's going to make a billion dollars. gotcha I went and went and bought Moreno. Valley the whole every foot of that land. out there got an option on 6 000 Acres. now I want to see this I could help that. wow yeah. so. you said you did hundreds of loads right.

about 100 loads of marijuana 100 loads. of marijuana. was it always for the same. entities was always for the story for me. but I mean I had different people load. me and and sell it so how does that how. does it work. okay I figured that I had an airplane. worth fifty or sixty thousand dollars at. the time that was what the load cost. down there and I'd say all right bill of. Bob you load me we we I got we we both.

were risking the same amount okay you. load me and then we'll sell it we'll. take the price of the pot out of it and. we'll split what's left over but I do. not want to sell it. I don't want to come down here and I. don't mind being in the jungle and. looting it but I if you come and you get. a load and you come back for it it's not. the same stuff you need to stay there. okay so it's better to have a partner in. this okay so that that's what I did and. it didn't matter and so that's how I got. away with a long time because I I didn't. touch it I come back on a dry lake in.

the desert throw that stuff out real. quick and I'd wait till the truck leaves. and it gets he gets away then I take off. and go back to town. did your name get spread around. everywhere and I mean what really this. was a DEA agent that followed me for. years they had really nice things to say. about me never told Any Lies he just he. had a stack of papers 16 feet high when. when I went to court it was 16 bucks so. he had me all over the world in.

different airplanes. wow. what would what would a phone call be. was it a phone call was it a what was it. back then how did you know all right. load's ready to be picked up. I don't even remember we didn't talk. much on the telephone I know that how. are you communicating. we come see each other and talk and you. should go down there and it must have. been a phone call or somewhere another. it was all it was funny you know we say. something now I know it's ready okay but.

I knew it'd be ready anyhow but and uh. sometimes the weather would stop me I. didn't want to go through bad weather I. didn't want to fly through thunderstorms. did they know when you're arriving or. they just yeah you could set my clock by. me if I said I can be there six o'clock. I'll be with there within 10 seconds I'd. put my wheels down. I'd adjust it just out there just I I. enjoyed being on time. Roger that so then what happened. I I got in trouble in Mexico I uh.

uh I was in a. woke up knocked on the door one morning. and big red face water oh I I ordered. breakfast down wave was Ranchero and. some coffee and. the Bam Bam Bam on the door and I went. there in my blue jeans and big red-faced. waiter buenos dias and he put that thing. down and put a 45 wrap between my eyes. and says federal police to Mexico you're.

under arrest. then he went to looking through my stuff. and I got me a cocoa out of the bar I. started knocking him in the head and. then run but I was on the sixth floor. and I didn't know how many was out that. door so I said oops I better go. so they took he put her gun in my ribs. and went down the elevator and put me in. a car and there's one behind one in. front. and they went through town I thought. he's going to put me into prison where. I'd been sometime earlier a year or two. earlier. so he went on out and uh went across the. railroad track and went down a rough.

road and they stopped right in the. middle of about an acre of dead animals. and all kind of decomposition. and that's where these trucks that pick. up the dead Burrows and cows on the. highway and bring them there and it's. just a stinking place I mean blue flies. everywhere but this is just a daylight. well. he got out and says uh. done just to avions wear your airplanes. and I said I don't speak Spanish and boy.

he's a great big red face fella he hit. me upside down. knocked me Plum off my feet. my Spanish rather improved so. he grabbed me by my hair and slapped me. around busted my nose and uh they want. me to sign this confession they say. they're there with her uh. a joint group from Mexico City of. American DEA and they have orders to. stop me that I have two airplanes in a.

yacht that I'm on. marijuana with of course I tell them I. don't know what they're talking about. and they continue I mean they uh. put me down in Iraq just in that killer. and I don't know how he stood it I. remember he had a white shirt and he had. a big old gold chain and he had a. a sailfish with a big red eye on it it. just dangled in front of my eyes as he's. doing his work on me. so then they they bring out a cattle.

prod. and they burn me up with that thing I. mean they eat me alive and they start. just about my knees and they stop about. my waist and they come and put a cigar. out on my my neck well I'm not too happy. with those fillers. I can imagine. soda the uh the cattle prod just runs. out of electricians and got about that. many batteries in it some more bull. product I mean it burns it just. and there's Red Rocks everywhere I mean.

these big old boxers and then clay. around and I guess once a year the. bulldozer just comes and pushes all that. Karen off into a big pile and you can. see it's about that high dirt and all. bones sticking out of it and cowhides. and uh gourds were growing thick and. then beyond that with the jungle and. those three cars was parked up there a. little bit. so uh he keeps every once in a while. grabbing by my hair until it puts that. paper under me to sign it'll all be over.

what I've done been through that in that. other deal. so uh I fooled around there and he had. my hands tied with my belt. and now I'm all sweating slobbing sticky. and bloody and. and I get my hand loose it pulls some. skin off of one hand now I got a hand. move but I can't let them see it and I. fooled around there and I got a rock. loose under my I'm down with my feet. this way and this way the whole way they. got me and got my shirt pulled up and. it's all bloody. and uh I get that rock in my hand.

and so the other ones go back to get to. some batteries and I said I'll sign I'll. sign and he'd been a what and I came up. with that rock load and I hit him in the. head with it. and I ran out of my shoes trying to get. get away and they started shooting at me. it was about eight of them. and they emptied their guns at me I. wasn't 100. 150 feet away and it was dry ground it.

was just coming in they opened up with a. and just as I went across that. those Dove across that pile of dirt. a little machine gun pistol or a Mac 10. or something opened up here we're just. tearing it up all over me and a Vine. caught me across that nose and it's. still a cave it crushed my nose in right. there and I caught that nothing right. and when I went my feet kept going and I. went and hit the ground hard whoop. and I went oh.

oh I went to screaming like a dog that'd. been shot. and oh shoot and stopped and. run through that gentleman got away you. got away I got away so uh there was. something about I killed that man in. Mexico but I know I didn't I didn't kill. any much of course she did the extra. died me back down there all sort of. stuff but the DEA said that and just. make make things work for me so I. thought it's best I not to go back to. Mexico. probably a good idea so I I didn't go. back.

well you had mentioned you also had a. yacht yes I didn't know I thought the. yacht didn't come into play until later. on so you were doing you were smuggling. marijuana. in both planes and Yachts get this time. let's let's talk about the yacht oh it. was just too slow and too dangerous I. get away with an airplane I didn't like. that yacht stuff so I uh. um. probably after that time I went to. Pakistan.

and I I I bought a. 80-foot shrimper I didn't know the. difference you went all the way to. Pakistan to buy around the world. and uh it's like a bulldozer going. around the world I should have bought a. fishing boat like some tuna boat it'd. burn about one tenth of the fuel I. didn't know here's a brand new beautiful. boat that's been seized by the uh bank. and I can get it just for a little bit. of payments it took more fuel I could oh. my goodness if I'd have just known how.

did you find a boat in Pakistan I mean. there was no internet back then but I. was I uh I went to New Orleans I decided. to quit the uh probably after the. Mexican deal I went down there started. one of the first Hydro blasting business. in the world I uh went to Shell went. down there bought a Wheatley pump that. pumps up uh Pipelines. and I put the got the right hoses and. stuff and I would go in those ships and. spray them down and clean the inside of.

them. and uh so I got a contract to clean the. Russian grain ships that was coming into. America they had been they had been. loading ships with dirty grain that had. oil and fertilizer in it and the United. States had to pay the Eastern block. seven billion dollars they just stopped. I think they was ships backed up from. here to the mouth of the Mississippi wow. not through my hat and had bought and I. went to clean the ships so anyway I. didn't like that business it just it was.

all right it was a million dollars per. ship to clean them but you couldn't make. much money by the people just wouldn't. work just they just wouldn't it was. Union and they know him crawled off the. ship then got them. uh I uh there was a fella there and he. had a boat that had been seized by the. uh the back like a mobile a brand new. beautiful shrimper needed 60 000 to get. it out of hawk I got it out of Hawkman I. went to Pakistan. and I got uh three and a half tons of.

hashish and went on around through. Singapore and through the Straits every. Japan and uh anyhow hold on hold on hold. on. how did you make a connection that did. you just say three and a half tons yes. how did you make a connection in. Pakistan. from the US that had three and a half. tons I flew over there we rode camels. around. and met a guy named Diesel that was a. taxi driver that knew the guy to meet. the guy and and so I went over there and.

did that what a terrible place that's. the only place in the world I never. didn't like. well I didn't like Pakistan I don't. blame you so I'm not a big fan either no. I didn't like that place so anyway we. came back there and got got the hashish. and then went on around through by. Singapore and went on through the. Straits of Magellan it ran on through. and came came back and unloaded in. British Columbia. and I bought a float plane out of who in. Alaska uh out of Anchorage and cut it. out of the ice with some blue torches. and took off across the ice and went.

down there and I flew that into. Washington State it took me load after. load and that snotty weather in the. Cessna 206 holding 700 pounds at the. time. how many. okay where else did you smoke all. marijuana into other than the US and. well I did a 20-ton load out of Thailand. twice a 10 and then I went back. backstand did a 10 ton load and then I. went after I was later on you're going.

to see that I was in some trouble and I. was on the on the lamb and on the dea's. 10 most wanted list and I hold a. hashisha and out of Morocco uh into. England. how are you making that this is how are. you making all these connections I met. this gentleman the worst contact ever. met my life was the famous Howard marks. that wrote the book Mr Nice do you ever. hear of him I have. well he hired me to do all these things.

and he turned me in so he wouldn't have. to pay me. he was the biggest mistake of my life. really really for sure. just one thing after the other so he was. the gatekeeper he's the one that had all. these connections and all these. different countries and put it all. together yes. how much do they owe you I don't know. just everything that you did uh oh on. that last one was two million dollars. but on another load he put another load.

with a DEA agent behind us and uh when. the unloaders was supposed to pay us 30. million dollars and they never paid us. because they said you broke the heat on. us well we didn't bring the heat on he. brought heat on us by putting somebody. else behind us with the same unloaders. damn so he would he was just bad news. just everything you touched. did you did you like him before you. figured out what was happening. I uh I liked Howard I I coach he just.

knew a lot he was a educated person. but he wouldn't I don't know it I liked. him it was just like okay here's. somebody hey this is somebody that knows. he can he can work with. and uh. on the of the two million dollars that. he owed me uh I had carried the uh the. load from three and a half three and a. half tons from Morocco to England and it. sold. and everything was and I I went to.

England to pick up the money. and uh. Howard gave me the passport. a British passport because I have only. one because I've been had a Brazilian. when I kind of a little strange would. have received anyone so uh he gave me a. good English one so when I got to. England. and I got to Holland to pick up my money. a Dutchman a tall man young fella he. just is this your passport sir yes and. he just put get clothes and and came. around and grabbed me by my arm really.

hard. commonly. well my new the game was up because I'm. wanted in the United States doing where. else I didn't know what he's after but. Bam Bam Bam Bam so he put me in a little. room and they uh three or four more. agents and he stuck you and stuck my. passport under him please sir guys in. there with the turbans and I opened that. door when I ran through that crowd like. crazy I knocked people sideways and. stuff and I went into a room and I. looked and I bought some books I still.

had the books I threw them on the floor. and there was a little window and I. crawled through that and there was a. wide card a long way and I ran like. crazy down the cars and nobody in at the. end there was a big elevator door and it. said you know forbidden dinner and I. pushed it it opened up. and I pushed it down and went down. and there was. hanging there a KLM cap and jacket from. a captain I put that on right quick and. I walked out on the time Racket and.

there was a crew coming by about 20. people from a 747 all of them they. walking along and I all right I got. right in behind them and we got way down. there to the gate and all of them are. holding up their Badges and there's two. police or two guards saying oops that. won't work. and I turned around and went back. and I got back I said they are going to. be looking they got my passport picture. right there they know who I am I got to. do something quick. so right before I got back to that. terminal part there was a four-lane. highway that goes under the runway that.

under the airport there skip a one in. Holland. so I just it was a high high chain link. fence there with a big Barbed wires on. the top of it so I just. I just crawled up that thing and grabbed. that Bob wire and pull up and get over. on it and I jumped down into the Roses. on the other side. I scream bloody murder I mean they were. there for something they weren't roses. they was a hedge that high which spines. that long they just eat my legs alive.

just that I mean just tore my clothes up. it was you couldn't move. so I took that KLM jacket off and I I. started stomping and here comes the blue. van with the Dutch police and they was. right there when the young fellas with. their pistols in the air all. and I'm stomping it out to get 10 or 12. feet through that scrub and that made. the big stop thing and it was hard I. mean you just I don't care who you are. you couldn't go through it and. so when I came to the to the highway it.

cars just zipping in like a freeway in. and out so I ran between those cars and. I had to slow down on the other side. because there's four policemen there and. I remember the one woman had a lot of. cleavage and a cross between her she had. to twist you just see things like that. when you just. and I just walked calmly by them and. went back into the terminal where folks. looked like 500 people waiting for their. loved one to get a mingle with that. crowd and then I got on the a little. escalator that went down it says Nardi. trains to the trains and I said there's.

one to Amsterdam and there's one to. Rotterdam they looking for me I'm going. to get on one to Rotterdam. so when I went back several cars there. was nobody there was waiting and I went. into a bathroom and. took that coat off oh I took that coat. of where I probably had it might not. shoved it into the thing and I mean I. went to pulling thorns out of me and I. sat down on the toilet and I just closed. that door and went. and I said my feelings exactly. oh man so I went to where I was supposed. to go to the train station of course.

nobody showed up. so Howard comes tomorrow he says oh my. mom what happened that passport oh it. was nothing to do with that I got the. two million dollars for Roger tell him. to come see me. so I went back to I'll disguise myself. and went on the ferry back to Mayor to. Spain and to meet him and I go to one. place and uh we go to breakfast and he. said do you have the pla still have the. indoor plates on your car and I said yes. he said well they're looking for him.

really hard in Holland here in Spain. gear so he said but I'll get you the. money later today. so I went back to my car and there's. four policemen there with the gun boom. take your keys out of the car when I. went to open and put your hands on the. car. and I turned around Luke [ __ ] old men. one of them was big and fat and the. other two just looked like they wouldn't. be well the one that looked like might. be something I got him right on the nose. and went over him.

and through the crowd I went and it was. tourist everywhere and they didn't last. long. so I went into a hotel jumped out the. window on the other side and went across. a little creek went back into another. hotel and I stayed hitting there for an. hour or so behind a stage in the curtain. so I went out and there was a fella. there with kind of glassy eyes and he. said hello hello and I look at that fat. policeman. from the first and I had to go back. through the hotel back across the place. and I went into a place that had a a.

little a workshop for wood and they had. a little three wheel. pickup truck we did the little front one. on the front that they have in Spain. France and I said I'd give you a hundred. dollars to take me magaloof and so we. jumped in just right in back out and go. and police cars were sliding in from. everywhere so I wonder what's going on I. don't know. [Applause]. so I got away from Howard that time. so he cried and begged Mario sorry I. don't know what's happened to those.

Andorra plates there's nothing to do. with it they got a lawyer to tell Mario. tell Roger I pay him I do this and so we. had lunch with him and Murray told him. we got my son was having a little play. and I'm kind of believing. I know better but still it's. intend to unload 20 ton loads with him. yeah. so we go to the school and of course I'm. the only father there and here they come. with their machine guns and all those. children there I just put my hands up to. my watch off and took everything at it.

tomorrow and they still knocked me down. in front of all the people and my. children couldn't go to school anymore. and uh they put me in prison. how long did you go to prison well I. didn't stay there very long because. they took me to court in Mallorca. and for the extradition I found I was to. be extradited moved to Germany and to. United States. double extradition so they they. handcuffing me now this way everywhere I. go with my hands over my back like that.

so I can't get handcuffs. so that's rather painful when they leave. you that way overnight somewhere. anyway the they took me to court and. they had to take and put the handcuffs. in front of me they can't have me that. way so they had four policemen Naomi. after I've escaped from that many times. so we're waiting on the judge. and it's high it's the third floor I. heard later on it was 31 feet from the. bottom of that window to the to the. ground. so I asked that lawyer how high is it.

and he said you'll kill yourself I said. I'm dead anyway. so I should win two of those. foreign. policemen go to smoke I'm going out of. here he said you want to kill yourself. and I said is it higher than the. palm trees and I could see the top of a. palm tree from out the window. so when two I went to smoke I bound. across that that courtroom and jumped up. on the stenographer's desk it was like a. grand piano. and she was nine months pregnant said.

she almost had that baby and I kicked. that window out here's a big window and. you could hear that courtroom going. and I looked down and there was a. station wagon on the street down there. and it was parked kind of up on the curb. and I bailed out on that and I I hit the. top of it kind of like you do when your. firemen hit the bang. and it went all the way to the. floorboard all the way to the drive. shaft Marty had to pay four thousand. dollars for that car. and I I got up and got away but they. caught me down the road.

holy [ __ ] and they beat the crap out. you're the master of Escape Innovation. and they beat me up so bad and cut my. chin and ain't blood all over me and I. wouldn't clean up. so then the man from the German Embassy. came and said when they I stayed there a. year and a half in prison they sent me. to Madrid to the big prison. and now they extradited me to Germany. with my hands over my back like this and. I got up there and uh. because of the the brutality of the. Spanish police where they solved that.

blood on me I got three days jail time. for every day I was in Spain so I didn't. have to then I escaped from the German. prison too after you put me in there why. were you going to German prison. I'd never been to Germany never made a. phone call to Germany never thought. about Germany but I bought a ship in. Holland. that they it was under back seizure that. was usually the cheapest ship she could. get and there was a really Jolly fella. on there and uh he was from he was a. German and I asked him would you like to. would you hold some hashish.

and where I said from Morocco or or. anyhow Middle East somewhere oh yeah how. much you're paying I said I'll give you. four hundred thousand dollars yeah I'll. do it. so he hauled a load. and I paid him the four hundred thousand. dollars and he bought him a long BMW and. a cigar and was bragging and they found. him and arrested him for having the. money. and they said if you tell us who give. you the money you'll be home by. Christmas. but they forgot to tell him which.

Christmas. he got seven years and no evidence. whatsoever. so they extradited me out of Germany and. I got nine years in Germany for using a. German citizen in an international crime. no evidence whatsoever didn't ever do. anything to the statues went to Germany. and went to England. so. after one year at the Maximum Security. Prison in Lubeck Germany I uh I I. escaped went Between the Bars and almost.

got killed and skinned off my chest and. I went through we got him climbing on. the roof where they was doing uh some. windows changing up for scaffolding and. got above the guard Tower there was. towers ever everywhere ever ever 100. feet that would machine guns in it and I. got right up on the fourth floor and. there was a Machine Gun Nest on the. second floor sticking out and I waited. until a guard was coming with his wife. and a little boy and it's pouring down. rain there I am mole bloody with my. chest skin up and I jumped right on top.

of that. that Tower with a machine gun and to go. hey and I bailed over the wall and they. was doing some digging on the other side. there was a pile of sand I'd seen it and. I jumped on the side of that sand like. you would at skiing and and broke my. fall uh it was fourth floor up. and so uh uh fourth floor and then down. to the Tower and then across and I got. away and got to Holland and Murray had. buried a hundred thousand dollars for me. there and give me 200 and it was in my.

shoe and when I when I was going when. after I got away and went to the man and. his wife he went in hold on so your wife. buried a hundred thousand dollars. somewhere where at in Holland yeah she's. from Holland she buried it on her. cousin's farm when oh before I escaped. because I told her I was getting out of. there no [ __ ] and she'd give me 200 in. the in the prison and he had that in my. socks and when when that woman got after. me the one that took her home I learned. flam blam blam behind me I was going. down a real Steep Hill I got I'm just.

laughing wide open it's a Maximum. Security Prison you'd only escape from. there so I hear blam blam blaming that. food woman's up on the sidewalk knocking. parking meters over trying to kill me. and I jumped behind the car and she. tears the fender off of her car and the. fender off from another car and she has. like a devil face screaming at me with a. little boy standing in the seats so I. jump over a fence a wall and it's got. cut it's got glass sticking up I cut. myself all up on my hands and I jump. over and it's plowed dirt on the other.

side and I bog up halfway to my knees. and it's raining and I lose my shoes and. my two hundred dollars. in that. anyway I get away and I get to Holland. and then my Digger and Marty told me. says you go to the haystack and then you. turn right and you go to the linden tree. and extend feet from that linden tree. she didn't tell me that there's 20. Linden trees in that pasture. we had to get rods and poke into dirt.

until we found it found it pretty quick. but it was kind of funny. so you got the money got the money and. then what got me some clothes and then I. I stayed there till I could get a. passport. and uh then I went back to uh South. America to see the Columbus they owe me. three and a half million dollars and I. thought they might pay me hold on. how did you get a passport. are these look my daughter lived in. England and she went to a graveyard and. she found a kid a baby that would die at.

about 1943 it wasn't registered or it. was wretched with no death so she went. in and got them. the birth certificate and with the birth. certificate you go and you apply for a. passport and you get the doctor and you. get the dentist and you get the Baker. and they sign that they've known you and. you're a good a good character for those. many years and the passport comes that's. the way it used to be it's not that way. anymore. again beautiful British passport. incredible.

so then you flew back to I flew to I. flew I took my train I disguised myself. and went to Portugal and I flew out of. Portugal to Venezuelan from Venezuela I. went across the border and went on to. Medellin Colombia to see the Colombians. how did you disguise yourself. do you remember. really I did the clothes and the hat and. the clothes in the high maybe a phony. beer or something that I got you you can. buy all kinds of little stuff that you. get and sun visors and shorts and you.

look like tourist so you go to Columbia. and you're starting to get into. cocaine I backed up some of those years. I've skipped some years way in the. middle of it okay. after the uh after the policeman I hit. him in the head with a rock. um I started flying a few loads out of. Columbia okay well before we go into. Columbia let's take a little break all. right let's do that perfect.

a lot of you have heard me talk about my. psychedelic Journey this year and all. the benefits that came from doing it one. being I haven't drank in seven months I. haven't had any caffeine in seven months. my anxiety is gone my anger's gone a. whole list of benefits came from that. and that led me down this journey of. researching benefits of mushrooms and. fungi in general and in my research I. found this company called Mud water mud. water is a coffee alternative with four.

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break we're getting ready to hit. Columbia. but in the break you told me he had a. couple more stories of marijuana. smuggling. yes. rid of the Lively ones well we like. hearing the Lively yeah. oh my goodness I got to tell about my. sister going down with me I uh DC3 you. must have two pilots I didn't have a. pilot. why don't you go with me and I didn't. have one I wanted to go with me so. but I gotta I got a wild sister.

and so she'd put her hair up and she'd. fly down with me and then I'd put her. out on the loads and she didn't fly back. so but she's an alcoholic she was then. so we landed in uh. Houston I believe it wasn't big old DC3. and I had two tanks inside that I don't. know a thousand gallons I guess that. they held and so. the guy's pumping it with little hoes. like you have a look at the gas station. there from a truck and I'm pumping it. from the main tank back into those in.

the. tanks inside and he's just like wow how. much is this thing oh. any Ikea says I'm gonna go get some. sandwiches well. you stay sober okay. so after a few hours we're all filled up. and it's raining and I go over and. there's Kay at the bar she's got the. sandwiches but she's got her foot up. there entertaining the Cowboys. okay it's time to go so anyhow we go get.

in the plane and she's sitting to bed. just fine they get up about 11 000 feet. uh and she's I'm cold I'm cold I said. well go back and Open my suitcasing. put some clothes on. so anyhow there's there's two big tanks. I think there's 500 gallons strapped on. this side and 500 and these big hoses it. goes in the middle and there's a lever. that I can turn into either side of them. well we're out there about half about. 400 miles south of New Orleans over the.

Gulf of Mexico at 11 000 feet and. pretty good rain bouncing along. and both engines stop bam. whoops got my attention I looked. everything looked right and I think what. in the world are we plummeting towards. our death ain't no way we can live. through a crash in the middle of the. Gulf of Mexico at night in a storm. and I think that fool has turned that. gas off. as I shine my light back there and there.

she is wrapped up all in my clothes all. wrapped all around her and she got her. foot on that lever are you kidding me. both edges well I jump out of my seat. and run back there and I forgot to pull. the throttles back as I run back it's. like they still wide open at that. altitude. and I pushed her out of the way and. turned that thing on and it goes bad. it was in just take off and throw me all. the way to the back. and hear that thing's turning up they.

just they know they just turn it up. going up on his side and I run up the. side trying to scramble back in there to. get that thing level anyway that's that. was one of just just the funny that I. tell about Kay and and my trip going. down there are you and your sister is. she still alive oh she's just wonderful. yes we we you guys are still close did. she go down there with it a lot no few. times yeah yeah I remember on that trip. I was so upset that I I forgot to give. the people the money for the load. foreign.

they put her on plane flew her back. uh so I uh. was flying out of Columbia. and uh. I went down and uh had a fella that. wasn't telling me the truth he told me. that he had three tons waiting at. certain certain place so we left San. Jose and he was just adamant if we go. further now we got to go now I said.

listen Foo. this plane flies 150 miles an hour and. it's 900 miles it's going to take us six. hours to get there what can't you figure. out. we need to get that. I'm not going to sit there with my plane. all day long all afternoon in the play. but what it was this was a staging place. and he had planned. to. go me go 400 miles further and he got. all kind of pipes so anyhow we landed. there just about darting the rain filled. it up we said well this is not where. you're gonna get into marijuana it's got. to be 400 miles further.

sweet you were flying cocaine out of. Columbus I'm sorry marijuana out of. Columbia yes I followed quite a lot of. Columbia out of Columbia. so uh he uh. we uh I said all right he said we'll. just lighten the load by and bring out. two tons you know that's a lot of money. because that stuff was let's see it's. 300 a pound so six six uh. a million what is it four times uh 1.2. million would it would have broke so it.

was worthwhile doing but he was. deception that made me go that far so I. wasn't on time. so the next morning about daylight we. were three or four o'clock in the. morning we took off the going to go and. we had to find some Forks in the river. and finally found the place and we. landed there. and out of the bushes it was termite. Hills all along it didn't even look like. a Runway just a little bit of thing in. the grass here's these white irate. Colombians come out of there man they. have shotguns with banana clips and they. pointed out to get the hell out of here.

get out of here get out of here. this is where they live and it's a. gorilla group farsk and they didn't want. an airplane there this they they've been. patrolled every day by Colombian Jets. they want us out of there we had the. marijuana here last night you should. have been here. damn come back tonight. so we went back 400 miles to the same. place for a staging place. and that's where I'd give the the old. man would that was hurting the load.

together they give him eighty thousand. dollars. and uh he was surprised to see us and. like well what could he do what could we. do either go back and leave it or. but I'm done down there done all all. this so. I uh. uh there's a woman killed old rooster. and she bought it a while but not long. enough and we got a little bit of. something to eat it was bad oh and I. went behind the house and I was in a. hammock and I went to sleep in a hammock. and.

I looked up in the ass and the two. military jets going straight up another. one just peeled off and he came back in. front of my airplane with 50 caliber. machine gun just tore that Runway up. just. dirt flying everywhere and come right up. by the house like damn. so it looked like every Colombian in. town runny got on a flatbed truck took. off my age thousand dollars. and I thought well they won't really. shoot me oh. so I took off and ran to the airplane. and I got that DC3 and I fired her up to.

a golf without even warm it up a bit and. the two Jets swarmed right on me one on. each side they just come right down I. think their wings was on top of my wings. nearly and they were just telling me. going I knew where the air base was via. vincencia go there and I said oh give. them the old peace signs and uh. I keep slowing floor and slower and they. just slowed down so they couldn't go no. further now my gear is hanging down and. those tires are bigger than a truck tire. so I wasn't going nowhere. so I said I got to I got to stop that uh.

there's a pen that you put in them with. a big red flag so you won't forget when. you take off because if your Hydraulics. was too it goes it won't let it won't. let it go down to the ground so there's. a big pasture ahead and I put it down. that thing was rough oh it was way. rougher and it looked it looked smooth. when I looked and those 105 foot wings. were just flopping up and down like this. as I landed in the gas cap popped off. and gone. oh I jumped out and took the pins out of.

the struts and run back jumped in the. airplane and I guess one one plane was. low on fuel and another one stayed with. me. and anyhow he got under me. and he's shooting those tracers and he. must have been just under the airplane. because they looked like they were. coming up like an arc right under the. windshield just red streaks up and of. course someone was live you know. so I and then then the 50 caliber Cannon. boom boom boom boom boom I thought hey. you know shoot me down and then he'd. come around and he just tore the tail of.

it up with a 50 calories. and I got like 10 or 15 barrels of high. test gasoline in there. it got me on my attention then he. started off on the wing and just eated. up with a machine gun. oh. so there was a thunderstorm straight. ahead. and they hang close to the mountains. down there in the tropics. and I thought well I get in there I'll. get I'll lose him he he ain't going in. there but I'll go in a little ways well. I must I climb up I must have been 12 15.

000 feet when I went in and I got an. updraft and it just popped my ears like. crazy you know it's not about a. thunderstorm pilot it took me up and I. don't know how high it was but I had ice. on the windshield and I think on some of. the Leading Edge. and I went back out it was thundering. and lightning that boom boom boom and I. went back out and there he was boom boom. boom again I said all right so I went. back in and I got just as soon as I got. in and I put it in a spin I put that. thing up on his wing and put it on a. spin went all the way down I got down.

about 2 000 feet and broke out it was so. pretty down there I blew it I lost him. so by now I'm bulletproof my adrenaline. is done going up he done shot my. airplane up I got 80 thousand dollars. going off through the jungle I'm going. to get that load. holy cow so I'm falling to guaviera. River. and uh down there it's way down and uh. close to Ecuador Brazil and Venezuela. anyway. and uh I saw.

a a spot it looked like it was miles. longer just grass high up on the bluff. above the river and I'd seen it had been. uh smoothed out by the freshest in the. river when it comes up that high and I. put the wheels down and I must have went. a mile and the propellers are just. cutting the grass like like lawn mowers. and I go around I must went five or six. times had a co-pilot in their name Dan I. said I know Al and I said Al we'll put. it down this time so it was just smooth. as glass went to put and then.

is it what this. slow when I say get your get your feet. off the brakes he said my feet not on. the brakes and they've played airplanes. where 30 000 pounds and they just own. two tires and that was breaking through. the crust. and that claimed that 30 000 pounds. broke through that crust and that plane. started coming to us up on his nose and. it came right up right up right up. slowly right up and crushed the nose. right in on us and I felt between the. seat and it stopped right at me.

you're not you're kidding pardon you're. kidding me no right there right I mean. the whole nose the the uh the engine. stopped it the propellers and the engine. are in the mud now they're sliding along. and it stopped absolutely 90 degrees. just like that with that big tail 100. foot in the air. beautiful airplane stuck up in the nose. now then the hatch is is over your head. now it's right in front of me so I just. undo the boat step out get my little. satchel.

and uh the co-pilot gets out with me and. they've had two guys in the back the. ones arranging that and it was all that. fuel and they got some hoses and they. opened that back door up there and they. was all right I knew they would be when. I broke his finger I think and I I'll. drum turning around and they skimmed. down. and that big fella had to load he was. nearly seven foot he was too so big he. couldn't get in the cockpit and had. stretch marks on him all over and he was. crying so he couldn't even towed his. suitcase shows you what sometimes.

we took the suitcase down the down the. uh Pathways oh man it was hot and they. would bug just all over us and the grass. was about that high. and uh. so we had the suitcases and meta a. little boy and girl he might have been. 12 years old and one of them was riding. a little ox and the other one a little. mu and we asked him uh can you take. these suitcases to the village for us I. knew there's a village about 10 miles a. day yes yes they can take it so we put.

tied them on and they run alongside us. and we chatted along going down the. little Trail through this uh Savannah. type thing he wasn't much trees. and so I when you was going to the. village and uh I said are there any. police there no no senior no police. there oh good. so when we got close to the Village I. gave them the money and told them go. home go home no no we don't want you to. go with us I didn't want him to tell. about the airplane sticking up.

so they went back and we went to a. village and wow. we pulled around when we got to the. Villages like a thatched roof place in a. little store and we ordered some. Coca-Cola and we're standing there the. four of us having coca-colas when a. bunch of soldiers surrounded us would. with guns. there's no police there this was a. military base. oh boy San Jose to gravieri up the river. from it. so oh what are you doing here we had. passports but they didn't have the stamp.

in them but they didn't notice that and. they said what are you doing I said well. I'm a doctor of uh and we're looking for. cures for medicine and when we were. studying the plants of the Amazon and. our boat broke down 20 kilometers down. there we walked here. okay that sort of satisfied them but. they weren't too satisfied with it. so I looked and there was a big Dugout. that thing must have been 40 feet long. the yamaho engine looked like it had a. shaft 12 feet long it was that thing was. big so I noticed that and found out.

where the man lived so they put us in a. house after we ate supper there with. them and they put a guard on the door. and before daylight I got on the Big. Fellas shoulders and I removed one tile. at the time from the roof and we crawled. out of that roof and got dropped down on. the ground on the outside and I went to. the house of the man that had on the. boat. and I don't know what we promised him. with a lot of money to take us down the. river to our boat let's go but we've got. to go now let's go now so boy with the. money I handed it to him I think a.

thousand one hundred dollar bills or a. thousand dollars and so we jumped to. that boat and took off down the river. and I guess after about an hour how much. further just just he just put it up on a. sandbar said I'm not going any further. we said mister you gotta go. we got to get down the river he said. this this is a official boat like the. for the village we I've carried the mail. I'm I'm it. I said hi I don't know how much we.

promised him but give him a lot of money. and he taken someone down there all day. long and before we got to Santa we had. to run empty the boat because there was. some Rapids some really good stuff like. yeah 10 feet high I stayed in the boat. while a young boy that lived there ran. it then he wouldn't even ride in it I. don't know how he got back up over those. Rapids. but we went on down and we got out and. uh we went to a poor place and that was. where a little Trail went in and uh we. spent the night in oh I got eat up so.

bad with bugs it was just terrible I. noticed that the man and woman had two. little children they got in a wooden box. and spent the night the next morning. they got out they were just wet with. sweat stuck to them they stand out the. bugs. and uh I remember the man were the. chickens and the pigs rooting on the. floor and he knew three words in English. I want to mower. and I thought uh he knew that I want. more. so uh. we got something to eat and I walked. about I guess close to 50 miles that day.

I had to put me in with a young man and. he threw his hips back and he could walk. oh I almost had to jog step with him. like 12 hours I believe I would do at. least four miles an hour. so we got to a sawmill and I rented a. Jeep and came back and got. got the other uh guys that was there and. uh. we started out that night uh about. midnight and we was going out on the. road to get out of there. and the road would be out and we'd had.

to go off and around it and no all those. people they would just sit in the Jeep. they wouldn't get out I'd have to get. out and jack it up hook a winch to it I. was I was as muddy as a hog got me. laying in the water. I was mad with them too. and they sitting right there so just. just as it would just get in daylight. the guy that was driving it was the uh. he says get all your passports in order. and everything don't have anything on. you because we're going through a big. roadblock up here this is fart gorilla.

territory and everything comes out of. here is scrutinized big and I said boys. we can't go through a roadblock here. after what we did yesterday. oh yeah we got 800 and you got a credit. card we can get through these people. only make fifty dollars a month and this. guy Dan and I said I'm not going through. I'll I'll crawled on my belly a month or. a year and eat snakes before I'm going. through a roadblock I'm sticking your. head on a news man well uh we tired. we're gonna go on through and uh.

I get out of there I'll come on with me. man you work for me I know I'm going. with Dan and I had big muscles. so I got out and I watched the tail. lights of that Jeep going down the road. they spent five years in prison in. Bogota. and I went on down the trail. and I come to a yard and there was an. old woman there a real old woman she was. peeling peeling oranges. and I said it was a will there was a.

curve of. breaks around and I said can I usually. use your well to wash this mud off of me. the water belongs to God use all you. want. so I drew bucket fulls and bucket fools. and I put my clothes over a bush and I. scrubbed and I shaved and I cleaned up. and put on clean clothes out of my. satchel and I had brute After Shave. lotion I put that all over them bug. bites I must add a thousand of them on.

me that felt so good. I think the the old woman and I went on. down the road and I found me a multi. spot under a tree and I slept for most. of that day and then I went on down the. trail and I came to a little house. on the back high banks of the river. and they were so nice to me a man the. woman didn't have any children. and she I don't know where he called he. must have a net because he had a tub. full of little fish fried up and she had. mounds of them those things were.

delicious and so I slept in a hammock. that night with a mosquito net over me. the next morning a beautiful breakfast. and wish me luck and I went on down the. road with my suitcase and got in a canoe. and went down the river I was 11 days. going through the jungle and I kept. asking the Indians Don just stop avions. where's airplanes Loma Linda Loma Linda. so I kept going to Loma Linda and and. one of the dugouts I was standing in I. think I was just just trying to. communicate with Mari and I said I'm all.

right I'm all right because they thought. I would dead yeah and Murray said she. was taking a shower and she heard me say. it clearly and she had less worries. about it so after the 11 days I finally. came in all kinds of ways getting. getting across that country I came to a. place that is pretty as Hawaii and World. War II shiplap buildings low a Runway. there and a tower for a radio antenna a. bunch of little airplanes Cessnas and. what in the world is this place and I.

went up hello how did you get here I. just my name is Katie Sue welcome you. don't know what this is this is Loma. Linda headquarters for missionary. Aviation Fellowship for the Amazon. wow and uh. I stayed in a cabin that night and there. was a redheaded electrician that worked. for the same electrical outfit I did it. come down there to do work and what a. what a witness for the Lord he was to me. I mean he's he was on fire and uh so the.

next day I got an attack I got in the. airplane with a old missionary from. Canada that had retired and they flew. him out and I flew with them and they. flew to Via vincencia military base. where the planes are trying to get me to. go and a military policeman reached in. an airplane and took my bag out and put. it in a taxi. you said God did tap me on the shoulder. so I was a I was the first plane that. was shot or shot up and shot down in in. Columbia and they they uh interrupted.

the World Series baseball game in 1981. American DC3 has just been shot by. Colombian Jets mizap is Up and Away. Ladies and Gentlemen that's when I. stopped to take. oh my gosh and we'll keep you posted so. that was my some of my marijuana smoking. article they interrupted the World. Series they interrupted to tell about. that. wow. so then I hooked up with some big boys. and uh we went to uh I met up with the.

dabblers out of uh Santa Marta and they. just had endless supplies of marijuana. at 300 a pound and they would give it to. you on a credit and you give them fifty. dollars a pound after it was over. so we went and bought a dc-7 I went and. bought it at Hollywood Burbank. of course I never flown anything that. big but that guy says I'll have you. flying in a little week she's our. sweetheart come on here I just flew it. out of Mozambique the bullet holes was.

in that thing and they had one engine. missing and he had a great big uh dagger. on his desk paperweight and it says. either I walked through the valley of. the shadow of death I fear no evil. because I'm the meanest son of a [ __ ]. in the valley. so I thought what a blasphemy is find. that one but anyway I remember the. Phillies Big South African and I bought. the plane. and uh there's four of us gonna you know. I was gonna fly it and get a health.

pilot so. the next morning. I. start to go down the stairs and my. daughter Mario she's about 12 years old. at the time and she's there a night down. and she's just crying her eyes out. Mario what in the world is the matter. baby and uh. he said Daddy. it's just that it's the worst dream but. it wasn't it wasn't a dream I I saw it. it was just you were there uh you were. driving your train into bad people had.

taken the rail out and it was on fire. and Aunt Kay were drunk and we couldn't. get you out and so I just shook I hadn't. drove a train in 10 years I used to work. on the railroad so uh. she said yes but before that it looked. like your DC3 it had it had the same. smiley face but it had four engines and. one of them was off and it was all. greasy inside and the inside looked like. a tube and it was on fire on my blood. run cold that's exactly what that. airplane that I just bought.

no glutton so I said oh I'm not about to. fly that thing so I went and told the. other guys and they said that's all. right we get somebody else and so I got. my money back. and then no problem anyhow they hired. some guy to flight and he landed in uh. oh a real. I think oh oh anyhow. in in Santa Marta he landed on the Salt. Flats and I think it was only four. thousand feet and those big big. propellers have to be put in Reverse at.

70 knots to blow them back in position. so he held it in too long and they. stayed in reverse. so they they had to hire a mechanic to. come from Miami to fix it. and that plane set there for two days. for all the world to see I wonder how. much that cost that thing's huge it's. stuff like 747 sitting there. so uh. when when they got it loaded with 30. tons and uh. they started left one engine one fired. right up engine two fired right up.

engine three engine four yeah yeah yeah. and then it caught on fire. uh they turned the fire extinguisher to. that engine and pulled it goes to the. canister that holds the chemicals is. under the pilot seat and the cope on it. and it the hoses blew out in the cockpit. and asphyxiated the pilot the co-pilot. and the flight engineer. and that plane sat there and burned and. they had to go in and break in and pull. those men out of there and they were. hurt really bad broke their arms and. legs they had to throw them down down.

the ladders 20 feet to get them out of. there on that Burning Plane and it. burned right there on their on the Salt. Flats wow so I know my daughter saw that. well that's interesting because we'd. spoken a little bit about. things yes before and uh during the. break. what do you attribute that to I don't. know but people's Adam the Bible's full. of them yeah you look at them they're. just there you look at uh I I just think.

I'd like people to look at the Ezekiel. like 38 39 we fashioned a war we're. gonna have a war Russia Israel don't. believe it just read it. where people have to go out and mark. them bones and clean them clean the land. yeah and we'll burn the fuel of the this. invading Army what could it be that were. written nearly 2700 years ago. you see people have them and I certainly. have them. do you have any other ones.

yes I uh. I was arrested and. um. Australia and I remember I had the. vision two weeks before it happened it. happened exactly like I saw it. and then I was up in Lompoc Penitentiary. and uh. Mari was visiting she visited me every. every Monday she broke broke color to. that place and uh there's a Maximum. Security Prison somebody killed there. every month. or one 12 years so it was a bad place.

just bad place I saw guards get killed I. slipped around in the blood people got. killed in front of me men cut another. man's heart out and ate his heart and. they moved me in that cell. it was it was it was vicious wow but uh. I saw a. I saw my friends laying in glass and. blood and all the windows blown out. and I told all of them it's coming I. told them they had a chaplain I told him. I said it's coming I have seen it.

and so I saw him the guards on the back. putting the handcuffs on people and we. was in the visiting room and uh. uh the blacks had a a rapper to come in. and she had a slid all the way up the. side of her skirt and she was black. wrapping black bondage black bondage. and those boys tried to get on the stage. to touch her and her bodyguards was. getting them and they coming to melee. and a white guard came up to stop it. there was only one in there and they put. a microphone in his head down he went. and it was it was on.

so we was in division room and here they. are helicopters over here they coming. through they must have Highway Patrol. ones and police from all over the state. coming in 1400 men fighting. it was a. uh some of the the guys that had grown. up uh tragic blew up the Trade Center. there back in 91. they were five or six. of them in there and they grabbed a. little guard and drove her in their cell.

and they said she broke those windows. screen. they dropped cans of boiling water on. the guards and there was a uh. um. table a pool table and they'd take those. and poo families and throw them their. bounce off the wall and they get them. again it was going on so anyway they. came in with concussion grenades and all. kinds of stuff they blew 10 000 windows. out of that place. so I guess nine or ten o'clock they uh. they let me go to escort and Mario as.

long as we had a vision I guess 14 hours. I don't know how long we couldn't leave. the visiting room those guards would. come in there to resuit up and there's. all bloody go back oh my God so we uh. and so they put two guards on me and. handcuffed me and took me back to Munich. maximum unit or in in the Mexican Union. there they're laying in the glass in the. blood was exactly the same people my. friend Bill Big Jim no kidding just. exactly God seated in the division where.

when would you have these Visions. usually about two weeks before it. happens. what would you be doing middle of the. day night time yeah I'll be sleeping. dreams dreams what dreams though for. sure I have dreamed but what dreams. but uh. what would you. what would it be like when you would. come out of the vision you just wake up. and you know you've just been somewhere. you've seen it definitely you've been. through a scientist called a wormhole. but it's not as prophetic prophetic. visions.

well sure we can. I'm sure that there's people that. meditate do that yeah and uh. the strangest thing that ever happened. to me in my life and that sort of thing. I landed at uh Orange County airport. and I had a business area of land. development but I wanted to see somebody. at the airport arrange a five star hotel. across the street from the airport. and uh I walked across there was a.

rather cold Wednesday morning let's say. and I went up to the uh to the desk and. there was a nice looking woman about 30. years old blonde hair and Page boy cut. and she had kind of powdery skin and I. thought I think that book was out Women. Are from Venus and Men Are from Mars and. I thought boy she looked like she's from. Venus and I went on and uh spoke to the. lady behind the desk and he was a cut. glass bowl of apples and I wanted one. but I wasn't a guess and I was ashamed. to get one but when I turned around I. spoke to the pretty lady and I said I.

said hello and she said hello excuse me. sir and I stopped She said I know you. and I laughed like I do and I said I. don't believe I've ever met you do I. know I'd remember. and so she said no and tears come out of. her eyes and he said no I know you. and I should perhaps if it if so I I. forgotten I'm sorry but my name is Roger. Reeves and we shook hands so she's flesh. and blood.

and she said well you come across the. lobby here with me. and I thought this is strange. and we walked across together in a large. Lobby nobody there and there was a a. little Ensemble with leather sofas and a. green hood and a little fire and she sat. down and she says she said on the little. thing and she said will you take both my. hand and close your eyes and tell me. what you see oh I get cold chills all. over me when I tell this story well I'm.

in war. I'm in another dimension I'm a I'm an. officer and I'm in a cage as big as this. room and it's all been from mining it's. it's a cave with rocks and these rough. tables these lanterns so it was maybe. World War one I don't know World War II. and there I am with a with a uh hat on. like the cap and I can't see my eyes but. I have a grease coat on and I can see. where the epileps were any in Sigma had.

I was certainly an officer had been. taken off because those were snipers. targets and I remember had boots and the. thing came down. and. yeah I had a good look at it and there. was sandbags out in front of it and it. was a long room and some kind of metal. across the top and it was like eight. feet tall and just outside the door of. it there a shell hit and it was hit so. hard to the sand almost looked like got. in my eyes and the Corvette cordite flew. I could smell it it's all in my nose and.

I walked there as it clears up and. there's a young soldier in that rubble. and I pick him up and I'm Walking on Air. and I'm just taking one step at a time. and I'm saying medic medic. and I look at the Young soldier's face. he's dead. and it's the face of the woman that I'm. holding hands with. and I have no memory of that day from. that it was erased. otherwise I'd ask her what is your name. who are you.

wow. how did that happen that. I'm 80 years old and never before or. after anything so. on unbelievable happened to me. that's incredible. and it wasn't long ago I had another. thing that happened to me and I would. like to if anybody knows to tell me that. how to do it if it's possible. I had a daytime vision. and it was a vision of a physics formula.

and it was on a grid and it kept sliding. down to the left bottom quadrant and I. kept pushing it up and whatever it was. told me to remember Isaacs because it's. extremely important it's what physicists. are looking for all over the world. and I turned to get a pen to write it. after I memorized it and it vanished. like a dream. so I've been to two. supposedly well I certainly good.

hypnotist and neither one I want to know. is it possible to take me back to look. at that again. and uh. neither one of them could hypnotize me. so that's. that's the strangeness other than my. Endeavors of life that I've this. happened to me. wow I've had Visions well I wouldn't say. Visions I would say intuitions. before you go to kind of if you're there. and you see it and it's bright and.

you're there. yeah it's a vision. the intuition is I think I've been there. I see something oh I've seen that before. that's that's that but when you're there. yeah it's bright and you're there you. can smell it and see it and taste it and. feel it. yeah I haven't had anything that Vivid. yeah but I've had. I I can't make sense out of any of it. I've had it where. I'll mention somebody's name. and then they call.

like. right away several times people and when. I say mentioned somebody's name it's not. like I mentioned my wife's name and then. she calls me because she calls me 50. times a day you know it's I'll mention. somebody's name that I haven't thought. about haven't talked to don't even have. their number maybe I haven't seen them. in 10 years and then bam we'll get an. email in through the website or. a text a phone call from a mutual friend. happens all the time you know there's.

something to it we are spirits in flesh. I know that yeah and we we may be. eternal. and uh Mary wheeler Wilcox. I believe it. many years ago she had the same thing. and just one one line of her scene she. said and you never can tell what your. thoughts will do and bringing you love. or hate for thoughts or things with Airy. Wings they're speedier than carrier. doves so they they speed over the track. to bring you back whatever went out of.

your mind. how very true interesting. you you had mentioned something about. have you ever looked into psychedelics. no I never have I never taken any drugs. I don't do drugs at all you've never. done any drugs no I've tried a little. bit but I'm like Clinton I didn't inhale. [Laughter]. no I don't like them I like myself like. I am. I smoked a little pot one time I did did.

cocaine just to see what it's like it's. a nice feeling but I don't want to be. that way well they say psychedelics you. know you really tap into your inner self. they tell me that and I read those books. of a really good one a chemical love. affair I believe is like those boys up. there and yeah it's good in the Peyote I. know people see things. yeah certainly they do maybe. you could get that Vision again if you.

Ultra I would try it with that somebody. chained me to a cactus and. so I can't do no harm for myself. whatever I'm scared of that stuff yeah I. am too I did it but um I did it for some. healing stuff but um. uh about six months ago changed changed. a lot of aspects of my life for the. better did it really okay I've heard. that too really and Washington State I. believe has opened it up and people said. Roger go up there and grow that stuff. and yeah well. yeah I cleaned me out I haven't had a.

drink in six months since that and uh. and uh a lot of. self-healing stuff a lot of learned a. lot about myself and and. you will have visions on that. but um but anyways moving on you kind of. had mentioned some reincarnation type. stuff too. but that was the one where the I met the. woman that's the only thing I ever had. that was just Quadra that was so. profound until how can you just you.

can't dismiss it no it just was it just. something happened to a person they. never even thought about such a thing. yeah yeah it's just I've had two out of. the body experiences completely out of. the body well it's like I'm just come up. and walk over here and go over there and. come up and look in your ear if I wanted. to do you see yourself yes I watched. myself breathing all right I gotta hear. this too. I've done it twice and uh and uh Bill. Monroe writes a book about it called uh. um out of the body I believe I don't.

know what it is but yeah it's a real. good book and if you face if you're. asleep with your head turned due north. he says you're five times more likely to. have one. so uh I had uh hold on. if you sleep with your face when he had. due north you're five times more likely. to have an out of the body experience. and they they do it now with it with a. sound in your in in water and they got. sound for you to help you do this mine. mine happened naturally.

the most very one that lasted a long. time I guess last so long as I wanted it. to I was working on the railroad I was a. fireman on a diesel electric it's just. me and the engineer up in there and I. think we had 217 loads of stumps other. than gondolas going from Waycross. Georgia to to Brunswick to the big. Hercules powder company they made. gunpowder out of those things the latter. stuff was with the pine stock left Pine. stumps you left there from a thousand.

years ago so uh. I had uh taken a car out to a cousin of. mine in Oklahoma. and I drove it out there and then I had. to get back and I get to work so I'd. been been asleep for been awake except. for a nap here and there but I had to go. to work. so I mean I had that job was a good job. on the Railroad and when the trains run. you men got to be there so I showed up. and I remember my engineer with Mr. Wendell Davis he was a sport the nicest. fella anyhow we hooked seven of those.

great big diesel engines together and. started off with that load of stumps. across the okaganokee swamp and it was. raining. and uh. I believe there's a million candle power. on the front of those engines and they. go into figure eight. to warn you possums or deer or people or. cars and they go like that just in. almost. enchant chanting you know just and the. rain was coming down at an angle and it. was just hitting the windshield like. diamonds and the windshield wipers is.

going. and then when that thing was going like. that and I just came out of my body I. mean completely out of it. and I thought wow and I went up to look. at myself and I look at myself I had my. eyes open and I'm still looking and I. looked at myself I was breathing and I. floated across the. engines or 10 12 feet wide went up there. Mr Davis I look ready I could see the. pimples where he dug him out of his face. when he was a kid could see all that I. went up and I looked outside I looked at.

all the gauges kind of red and and I. knew that I could just go wherever I. wanted to and I went up and said on the. radio and I thought I'll watch this. scene for a while I'm out of my body. and then I after a while I mean uh I. thought I wonder if I'm dead. and when I did I bam I was right back in. my body. so that's that's happened twice to me. and that you can do you can have out of. the body you can work at it and have. that for sure. don't and you can learn to travel I. understand what was it what was the.

other one another time that I was uh uh. me and another boy was had a log truck. and uh the fuel pump broke on it and so. I laid across the chassis. and I'm blowing into that 55 gallon drum. and I'm breathing that gasoline fumes. and he's and if my I had to keep a. pressure on it to keep the brother and. make that thing into 18 wheeler without.

any Wheels behind me and I'm laying. across it things going 80 miles an hour. down the down the highway. and the back window was out of that. thing must have been. 1938 or something it was old. let it slow down blow Roger blow blow. and the wind blowing and I I became I. came out of my body. I and I just get to just come right up. there in the cockpit this thing out I. read the signs as we came by. and then he stopped I was unconscious. and he pulled me off of that I could see.

him doing it wow. you got to look into psychedelics all. right you gotta look into it I'm going. to send you some information a lot of. people have those type of experiences on. psychedelics and. I swear it's like a veil there's just. lift it up and you just see. so much more than than what you normally. do and everything makes sense it's.

really. it's it's. my. psychedelic experience is one of the. most profound experiences of my life all. right that's strong yeah and uh I don't. I don't say that lightly no and I in in. my these Visions I have I certainly. I I certainly just like honor them it's. just like all right I'm blessed sacred. yes. wow wasn't expecting to have that. conversation.

I wouldn't either but um. yeah I gotta I gotta send you some stuff. on psychedelics no good it's uh the. stuff that. yeah it's not the it's not the party. drug that that that was going on in the. 60s and 70s it's it's it's. there's some real benefits to that stuff. but uh but anyways let's let's move back. into uh Colombia. all right. I have a.

I was at my house and there's a. wonderful old airplane sealed and sell. me named Cameron and he came to my house. with a really nice looking. lawyer from Bogota Colombia and they. wanted to know that if they sent a ship. up if somebody wanted to ship without. unload it and how much was 65 tons what. how much are you paying I don't know we. made and so they said yes but so I made. an agreement of course I unloaded to be. happy to unload it you have to go out. with smaller boats and get that thing 20.

miles over the horizon wherever you so. uh. they said but now he came up once before. and the people didn't unload him so he's. shy he wants the gasoline money for the. diesel to come up and so you have to put. up sixty five thousand dollars for. guarantee that you'll be there and I. thought that's strange. but my airplanes cost more than that now. on every trip and I said well I won't be. risking anymore. I gave those to shyster's 65 000 and.

they left. of course I didn't hear from him anymore. so I had the card for the lawyer's. address in Bogota so I got on a flight. on 65 000 enough to go look about at. that time it still is today but uh so I. went he was the nicest oh I give it to. the Man and some big tail. so uh. he says but I'll tell you what I have.

them that you can make so much more. money with the cocaine I said I don't. want food with cocaine man there's so. much money how much money he said oh a. million or two dollars or two million. dollars a trip they'll pay you what. let's go talk to these folks so we his. wife was a work with Avianca and so we. got on a flight and went to Medellin. Colombia and at that time that airplane. landed right downtown I mean the wings. almost touched the apartment buildings. on both sides whoo cell move seven it. just shook terribly what year is this.

19 1980 1980. so uh. we go uh to a beautiful condominium and. we go to the top and it just looks out. on verdict jungle and just across the. whole city and then I you never could. see a scenery so pretty. and there was a man in there. I'd say that he was a modern day Western. Churchill just a pure genius. sloppy drunk. and he could talk any language he wanted.

to speak with him and he slur yeah and. he said yes I got I got old cocaine you. want to haul any anything I pay five. thousand dollars a kilo go see Marta. that was his wife go see Martha but. anyway while he was in there the most. strange thing happened there was a woman. came in with her two bodyguards muscled. up little fellas and she was wearing a. rabbit for a hat and rabbit for a jacket. in the tropics and Boots rabbit fur and.

a mini skirt. she she kissed him on both cheeks she. ain't paying us no attention and uh. she's Sonia de Attila from Santa Cruz. Bolivia high cheekbones of his Indian. look kind of a pretty woman. and uh. so. she's Fernando asked her what she's. doing I'm on my way to Miami to buy an. airplane. well that lawyer Roberta Davila he was. rather smart and he said Roger has an. airplane for sale. oh now she sees me what kind of airplane.

do you have and I told him I had several. airplanes I said I have a queen air. queen air oh Queen there she like the. idea of having a queen. [Music]. she said how much you want for the. airplane and real birth is going like. this so. [Music]. so I uh Queen Ayers was a really pretty. nice airplane Beechcraft but uh two or. three of them the Wings burned off all. at one time within a few months or a. year so when they just grounded them so.

I bought several of fifty thousand. dollars a piece and there's three. hundred thousand dollar airplane and I. had a mechanic they were just one hose. that was given trouble and uh so it had. tanks in the inside she said okay uh. if I like it I'll buy it bring it to me. I said listen you give me five thousand. dollars I have somebody bring it down. today. see give the man five thousand dollars. so her little bodyguard came up give me. five thousand dollars and I called my. friend David and he flew it down to. Panama so we went to Panama to see it.

and there it there it came oh it looked. good it could see it looked like an. airliner coming in and oh she got in she. just played pretend driving her Queen. Aaron so she's okay I'll buy it foreign. to Santa Cruz to get your money oh boy. so we loaded up with a whole bunch of. her people and we take off way too many. for the plan and we take off and go to. Santa Cruz believe me across the jungle. it would land in Santa Cruz and the.

policemen were there and they put the. flags on their old cars and they are. through the streets she is she's a black. widow of Bolivia wow she's a cocaine. Queen so we go out under the water tank. I remember and she had a house made of. marble a big old marble slabs and it was. new and so she recently made her money. and there was a chain link fenced around. the place with a. kind of a homemade gate and all the. guard all her she had about 10 or 12.

servants and they were all out at that. gate crying and ringing their hand and. just going on. and she what matter with you food what's. the correct your lion is eating the baby. what so she runs in the house and I go. in with her and she's got this mountain. lion. and he's eating a baby on the floor and. he's only left just like a diaper and. some [ __ ] in the head. and she grabbed that that line with his. blood all over his mouth oh like Tommy. yeah yeah yeah she puts him in another.

room and she goes out there out of here. you idiot to everyone I want to see your. face again leave a baby on floor in. front of a line. he had no sympathy whatsoever. was it her baby no it was one of the. maids babies she didn't have any babies. so much so but yeah the mountain lion at. eight uh the mate's baby. holy [ __ ] so I stole that right in front. of me that messed what she saw there so. that she was just a terrible person I.

got my money and got out of their own. everyone go back I'll bet they offered. me to fly a uh ether from. uh Colombia I'm from Panama down there. to where they make it and ether was. extremely dangerous but he was paying a. huge amount of money a million dollars a. load just and that was just legal but. that stuff gets to leak and then it. blows up and it burned a lot of people. to death damn but I'd like to tell you. another lion story but I would love to. hear it we're going to back up to. marijuana days all right I uh Mexico and.

it's Mexico to one one's Ranch all right. with the goat Ranch. uh anyway I uh a lion on a goat Ranch. I landed there and I said one is. anywhere that we could grow marijuana. here in the middle of Baja that I. wouldn't have to go over Oaxaca and. Guatemala and wherever and buy it he. said there's a place maybe. we can go but you need to spend the. night here so I spent the night in the. hammock then we got the next morning on.

some fast news I mean them music walk. fast you know fast talking to me and we. went to walking and uh we went by Mesa. and he says I killed two two big lions. here last week what he said yes I was. hunting deer and I rolled the Rocks off. down in the bushes and the deer run out. and I shoot them and that's what we eat. but he said this day two big mountain. lions ran out. and she killed him both years I killed. them both I said what'd you do with them.

like I was saving the high oh we ate. them you ate them yeah she's very good. oh what yeah so we rode the Muse on and. we stopped for lunch we stopped an. amazing and it had rained sometime. before and it was just a paradise of. flowers everywhere you look it was just. like a riding through Heaven it was so. beautiful on those mules and there's dry. Cactus stops and we stopped and he had a. stack of tortillas and a package of. sausage and uh he uh took them tortillas.

out in a great big fly just made him one. of them he just took him threw it away. and he broke his Cactus up and made a. little white flame you couldn't even see. it with a dried Cactus burn he put them. tortillas on it and eating them up and. took that sausage and put in there and. rolled it up man we ate them I almost. ate a dozen of them I said that's good. meat right uh one what is it Leon. thank you. so I I had line for lunch nice that.

two-line story so I guess it is good. to me I guess he put all them peppers in. there whatever just you couldn't tell. the difference couldn't tell the. difference in the house cat. wow you got. you've got all kinds of stories so uh. I'll get back to how I got in the. cocaine business I uh so this this uh. Fernando Fernando. Fernando yeah I can't remember his name.

and I went to see his wife Martha and. she said he'll sober up one day and he's. gone oh you can do he's got tons of. marijuana. so I was in Belize. and uh I called down there and I said uh. Fernando's having a birthday party over. on the Pacific so come avianka is flying. to people over to it. so uh I flew down and uh. I think I flew commercially I know it. did and so I got there and they flew me. over in one of those uh Island shorts.

here about 40 people that used to be. around you don't see them anymore and. they flew over a verdict landscape out. of a med out of yeah Medellin and down. and between somewhere between. Panama and Colombia it just said there's. no roads over there wasn't any and they. they landed uphill and that must have. been a mile long Runway they must have. been loading stuff like crazy and I met. a a couple on the plane and the. Beautiful couple and she she spoke.

English. and uh. so they we become friends on the plane. going over and we got out. and there was a river running in and. there was a log house there and uh a. woman they would barbecuing Hogs and. goats and cows and all kinds of stuff. and they had little houses on stilts 10. feet up to get out of the waves but I. didn't get one of them I got the uh I I. got to. where the workers stayed [ __ ] that.

but anyway I. I. um I'm walking on the beach with a a. woman just come up to me and she's was. in poor clothes like she was from the. from the slums but she was very nice and. very quiet and she said I have no idea. I've never been in a helicopter for the. man invited me to come and I None don't. know how I know. so uh. uh so then the couple are coming in this.

Matilda she said Roger Mario says that. you're walking with the girlfriend of. the most vicious killer in Colombia. He suggests that you get away from him. oh [ __ ] so we kind of come to the end of. the beach and I excuse myself and she. went on her way. anyhow that night uh the people came. there from all over that was where the. Medellin cartel started they decided. that so many people were killed until. they all got together they had a huge.

party and so they'll stop killing each. other ten thousand people were killed. there a month if you had 10 kilos and. you gave it to one and he's got some. pilot going to take it to New York and. well 10 kilos or 40 kilos got busted in. New Jersey so sorry bang Bang Yeah that. was what was happening by wholesale so. they said all right uh particularly. ochos and Escobar and gacho uh Carlos. later they said we're going to make a. insurance policy.

and transportation. the price of cocaine at that time was. fifty thousand dollars in New York it. was ten thousand dollars in Colombia. for what a kilo of cocaine per kilo okay. 2.2 pounds so you give it to us here we. would deliver it to your man in Miami. for ten thousand dollars. if it gets busted anywhere or any any. for any reason it's lost we will replace. it here in Columbia you can't lose. so they got 100 tons put on them real.

quick. so that was a beginning of it so I was. there anyhow the. the the the pretty girl got shoved in on. me bam that night about midnight no oh. here come this guy and he's angry. I guess she won't sleep with him and he. stole her sleep with me. [Music]. so anyway that was uh that was the. beginning of that and uh some his. friends got around him like oh man.

so. but anyway that's when I met the people. with the uh Mario that knew all the. people so we went back and I think that. kind of seemed as old so all the. important people with their planes and. helicopters left there's about two days. and we had stand-up comedians police. Chiefs from all over the city and I mean. they they were skits and it was it was. big.

so they left and I think there's only. four men there and uh. uh I was I was laying behind the house. again just like the other and I was. reading a book The mmk said I was in a. hammock having some barbecued goat Bow. Wow and blood spattered on me and all on. that book page I rolled out of that. hammock my throat 20 feet because it was. real close and it was a big pistol. and I looked up.

and there's a young black man who got. about 25 years old handsome fella and. there's a white Columbia they're about. 55 or 60 years old and he's got a big 38. and that black young man tears that. pistol out of the van's hand and just. just tears it out of his hand and puts. that gun between his sides he goes click. click click click there was no more. bullets in it too and I looked and there. was a dog that had been shot in the head. and I guess he was turning and the blood. was flying and that's what got on the. book. but then I looked at the the young black.

man and he's done Ash and he'd been shot. right in his femorial arteries being cut. and the blood was just gushing down he's. holding it yeah and I said and I I have. some training in First Aid on the fire. department and I said I'm a doctor I can. help you and he put that gun at me. so anyhow he went hobbing them back I. had my friend Mario we went tried to. talk to him and he went on back down. there and died. and uh so then oh you could hear those. people back there under those trees.

screaming and crying and so the night. got there and there was only four of us. men and uh one of them was a tall. airline pilot he just went to cry I've. seen some cowards in my life so he he. was one of them and I and Matilda had a. pistol so I stayed kind of close to her. and so we was at that old log house and. just just four men and those women and. the Lights Went Out. and uh I went back into a flashlight and. the the generator the gas tank had been.

filled up with water and sand they had. those black people had come and and they. said there's going to be they're going. to be some killing before daylight. well we got little cans and put kerosene. in them and put Twisted little Wicks put. around there in the bugs what a boogie. night we spent. anyway they uh uh soldiers came and. round us all up and got got the guy that. did the shooting and he would take us. take a shower and he took Escape not the.

back and the runway's covered with logs. and drums and airplanes flying anyhow. they finally get it worked out and we. get out of there but uh I get back to. Medellin and I I meet up with Mario. Matilda and he said listen I want to. introduce you to some people. so he took me uh up uh to a little town. called invigata that's where he lived. too. and we went up a mount a winding. Mountain Road real pretty oh.

bromeliads into trees and a gate opened. and he was allowed in and we went up for. Stoney road to a little they called him. finkers a little farm. and uh. there there was people out there in the. over door hats it was like you know. Hitching Rail in the old house I mean. it's two or three hundred years old. Hacienda and it was sagging but it was. beautiful like Museum and we were. ushered right in amongst all those. people and there's a really pretty woman. and they asked us for wanted coffee or.

tea and she made us a cup of coffee and. a pretty little cup and there's a hole. in the floor we had to walk around that. and it was just shiny and went in to see. Jorge Ochoa. and her mighty nice fellow spoke English. and uh he had 12 telephones on the big. desk and he was proud to show him he. said this is New York this is Seattle. and this is Chicago when they ring I. know what's happening and so then after. he asked me what kind of airplanes I had. and I told him and what kind of. experience and he was happy he said well.

I got all the work you can do and we pay. five thousand dollars a kilo. and uh first load we'll put 300 in. that's one and a half million dollars. for an eight-hour flight so uh he said. let me call my partner over so he sent. the Pretty Woman next door and that old. house and income Pablo Escobar and he. asked the same things and he and did the. same thing and shook hands and said got. all the work you want. don't you have any idea who these guys. were at the time no they they were just.

regular people and uh Jorge I mean still. is he's a gentleman. he owes me three and a half million. dollars he don't want to talk to me but. he's still all right. he goes his people in Miami said I was. paid so he's saying I'm clear but it's. not he owes it wasn't him I went to. prison and he owed him he should pay me. well before we get into uh recovering. your three and a half million dollars. let's take a quick break all right real. good.

foreign.

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all right Roger we're back from the. break you had just. met Ochoa and he's bringing in his. business partner. El Jefe yeah or he was a I spoke English. as he called the Pretty Woman I mean she. was pretty. and uh called her in and uh spoke in. Spanish and so she went next door and uh. come back with a gentleman and plaid.

shirt and khaki pants all ironed very. nice and Jorge introduced me to Pablo. Escobar. and uh Pablo Escobar is a guy five foot. eight and 180 pounds. and uh. so he asked me about what kind of. airplanes I had and my experience flying. across the border and I told him that I. had a DC-3 of beach 18 a turbo prop. Arrow commander and that I'd done over. 100 loads of marijuana and. so he seemed pleased with it and said it.

uh they paid five thousand dollars a. kilo and that and I haul all I wanted to. so we just had a nice little chat there. and just. he didn't seem anything unusual except a. businessman it was next door who who was. Pablo at the time it was just. nobody ever heard of him so this is very. very beginning days yes he hadn't made a. name he wasn't the richest man in the. world but I'd never heard of it were you. nervous not a bit why why would it be I.

mean not just uh people asked that but. it was just like if I was a owned a. truck and I went into a trucking company. and asked let's get a contract me to. hold some stuff across country it wasn't. it wasn't anything and uh I wasn't. looking for cargo before I'd been. looking for marijuana and it got hard to. find in Mexico with all the heat that. was there so I had to move further. afield. did it bother you that you were getting. into stronger narcotics. than marijuana not so much at that time. uh back in 1980 uh the cocaine was um.

pure it was made with ether and uh. rather fluffy big like big football. Twisted on the end. and only the rich people were doing it. and uh I don't know if you know of it uh. up until not long ago it was considered. a. non-narcotic control substance so they. can didn't consider cocaine a narcotic a.

narcotic it has to be something like. cigarettes or heroin that you won't your. body craves okay if it's mentally. addictive like a lot of things. gambling sex all these things uh but. they're not they're not narcotics. so I understand that uh the CIA invented. crack I don't know that they did but in. the book The Big White Lie by clavel. James clavel he was a top DEA agent he.

he accuses him of it and said they put. it in every every city in the United. States in the black communities. to sell their cocaine because they're. bringing in 10 ton loads. and uh so at that time it become the. most. narcotic. substance in the world they said did you. take a few few hits of that and you were. addicted it put Sophie endorphins in. your brain into it you want it again why. does he say that they.

what does he say they say I got involved. with that what's his reasoning to uh. there was a group of people in CIA I. don't believe it's a whole group of them. but they they wanted to sell cocaine. and that boy I mean it just went rapid. and now then now it is a narcotic. and uh I don't know until that time if. anybody had ever died of cocaine. and uh even today with all the people. that are in prison I'd like to just say. that for cocaine. compared.

to. cigarettes or alcohol it doesn't even. register. if you looked at a chart it might yeah. there's some people and anybody one. person dies I don't want any person to. hurt anybody but if you talk about doing. the uh the greatest evil things on on. Earth it just like. look what's doing the evil. man look at the sugar and all the people. in the the trouble we have in the. billions and trillions of dollars in.

health care that we have just from the. sugar industry and the things that's. mislabeled. do you realize that up to 400 000 people. die each year in the hospital. from misdiagnosed. drugs oh yeah mistakes. that might be somewhere between 250 and. 400 000. now that's a lot of people you. look at a half million people from from. cigarettes and hear this the governments. get their their money and look at the. devastation that alcohol does I don't.

want to take away alcohol but if alcohol. kills 100 people. and and something else kills One in a. Million. why in the world don't you go after the. after the calls and it's just educate. people it's what's happening yeah it's. business you know I saw in the news that. uh. cocaine Colombia is trying to legalize. cocaine right now or at least it's it's. it's it's devastated their country. ten thousand a year being murdered over.

back in nineteen eighty yeah. I was surprised to see it but yeah I've. seen it I've seen it in a couple. different headlines now and uh over the. over the past week they've been saying. that they're trying to legalize cocaine. down there they did in Bolivia and they. made did they really making lipstick and. face cream and all kinds of stuff. yeah. so uh I went uh I'd like to tell you how. the uh. uh. I think I might have already told you. about the insurance company that they.

formed down there and those fellows did. and started so they had just so I uh I. went got my airplane and flew down and. um they uh I landed at a. uh. banana plantation and it was a long clay. strip and it was raining. and they put 300 kilos in there. and then they put the ugliest man you've. ever seen name Ronaldo and he got in the. backseat of that airplane with a Mach 10. pistol.

he gonna make sure I went to Louisiana. well I took off. that fool didn't know I could have went. to Argentina he didn't know which way. was North and South there was no doubt. in my mind but anyway we took off in the. little wheels on that airplane kicked up. the mud and the wheel wells are large. and it could feel completely up with mud. I mean I was waited down with a load of. mud and the wheels wouldn't come up so. here I'm dragging along 100 miles an. hour slower than I supposed to go.

we are not going to maintenance. so we got it about a thousand miles with. the wheels hanging down and I said I. told him I said we've got to land I got. a strip in Belize. that I can stop and clean this out and. get some fuel. and boy he put that Mac 10 pistol to my. head no no I'll kill you you're going to. Louisiana going to Louisiana I said go. ahead and shoot Foo you're gonna die too. right now. so we landed he was all upset and there. was a farm that had a nice long Runway.

car to Ranch up in your uh orange won't. and oh Mr Carter there he was a friend. of mine and he sent the boy out to wash. the plane and we went in with this guy. Ronaldo and I remember we had a nice big. meal and uh they cleaned the plane. filled it up fuel we took him on off and. went to uh. went on in New Orleans and uh went on. into Louisiana and landed. I landed on interstate 10. that was the best branding strip ever. ever made they were making that thing.

all the way across country and it took. them 10 years going across Louisiana and. Texas and at the Mississippi River there. was a cantilever bridge and about five. miles from it they had a detour big red. flashing lights just like at the end of. the runway I'd come over those and land. on that on that on that Runway it was. five miles long holy cow and how the guy. there with a truck to unload me how fast. would it take to unload. five minutes something that's it oh yeah. so from wheels down to wheels back up I.

would come in like a Hulk I mean just. silent and touchdown and then the truck. would come out the bushes and we'd throw. it in. and uh the truck would leave and I'd. give him plenty of time before I took. off because I want to make a lot of. Racket when I leave. and then I would go over and uh across. the Lake Pontchartrain land and then I'd. get in the car and go back over there. and scrub the tire marks out where that. I had landed. because you do it over and over again I.

didn't want nobody sitting there waiting. on me. so so you would be wheels down for a. little bit yes maybe 15 minutes if he. got out of there 15 minutes till he got. out then then I'd take off. and as soon as he got back on the. freeway I knew he'd be back on the. freeway 5-10 minutes okay so as soon as. he got back into traffic I'd be all. right I'd take off and make a lot of. racket. and I did that all the way across Texas. I just landed that Interstate 10 as they. built it I had a big old truck was doing.

marijuana and it's because uh antiques. unlimited down the side and halfway down. the truck was it was packed with nice. antiques he opened that back door slid. it up the chairs are still for just try. to fall out on you we had bungee cords. on them to hold them in. and then we had a a wall built across. there I did it and uh and it was. smell proof it was sealed right up to. the top and then underneath by the. driveway I had cut four Boards out and.

made a plate on the floor and then I had. a a rack over the top of it so the. marijuana couldn't fall on it and we'd. get under there by that driveway and. shove that stuff up in the truck I could. put three tons in the front front part. of that truck holding all over the. country didn't matter if you never even. got stopped but if you did get stopped. they're not gonna. take all that unload all that furniture. not unless they already know they're not. just going to do it just as a normal top. when would the payment happen. when you land okay on the cocaine yes.

marijuana was a week or two cocaine was. usually about two weeks. so after I did the uh. the first 300 load I went back and I. said it'll hold 500. no no senior your good luck is 300 so. they'd only put 300 on my meat and so I. was making it was eight hour trip in a. turbo prop error Commander I was making. a one and a half million dollars for an. eight-hour trip oh man and I said when. you want me to come back we waiting on. you Senor just anytime I wanted to land. there it was just I could have gone.

every day. but they get up about seven million. dollars you owe me and I'd stop I ain't. gonna go no more until you pay me seven. million dollars that's all that credit. I'd give them okay so how many. how many loads would you do in a month. later on I did about one week one a week. should make it about six million dollars. six million dollars a month yeah what. are you what are you doing with that. money piling it up where do you put it I.

buried it and I bought Farms with it and. I bought corn I like buying Rare Coins I. bought the the. pressure to bloom and I. right now that thing's worth over 10. million dollars about the size of a. quarter wow is made for George. Washington by a guy named Brasher he. would did he was an architect for. Washington DC. so there was a valuable little coins. that was the best I did and I bought. land I bought I got into real estate. investment I had 21 oil wells I bought.

airplanes and houses and mansions and. anything else but I always had to put. them in other people's name and guess. what. that money just doesn't come back to you. you give you give suitcases or suitable. to some good investor. and it's just like it's got Wings on it. flying away. I never saw one come back how much money. if if you don't mind me asking at the. height of your career of how much money. what were you worth what was your net.

worth I remember 60 million dollars 60. million dollars what year. 1982 I wonder what that's what the. equivalent of 60 million dollars today. would be. probably I don't know probably at least. two times double that so probably a. hundred 150 million something like that. 200 million I don't know well. I mean a lot of things triple with this. new guy in office so. but but it don't buy anything yeah right.

but uh but yeah that would be. interesting to know 60 million dollars. did you trust anybody to manage it I. trusted everybody you did that was the. mistake huh you can't uh. when Murray and I first went out to. California we we got a job we didn't. leave with my sister for a few months. and so we got a job managing the 40 unit. Department building. this guy Jack Tripp was a nicest man and. he said no Roger Murray I got something.

to tell you now when you got this job. just remember that people are no damn. good and give them a chance and they'll. prove it. we thought how awful. after a lifetime in this business I I. kind of think Jack I believe you knew. something up you give somebody a million. dollars and he's going to figure out. every which way in the world not to ever. give it back to you yeah I think if you. go to jail bye-bye what was the what was. the what was your most prized other than.

the coin what was your most prized. investment. wow we had we had a couple of different. homes in Santa Barbara about a place up. on Mission Ridge that was uh. 16. 000 square feet counting the basement. and all and it was something I mean it. was so pretty until it just like it was. almost signing it was so pretty and it. had been uh. owned by the Catholic church after a. while it made back in early 1900s 1900.

to 1907. and that thing was something. else but it had been run down it was. really run down I went in and uh the. Catholic church had had it and they had. little cubicles in there for the nuns to. live in little cells but they weren't. even. to the floor they didn't even nail them. down and so I took those out and cleaned. that floor and painted that place up and. made it and frankly in Dublin Roosevelt. had looked at it for the Western White. House at one time what yes and so we. lived there and I just went up to the.

place the other day to knock on the door. and I took some pictures of it I'll show. them to you but uh that was that was a. prized possession I had to run off and. leave that. and uh I walked out with the uh I'm. getting ahead of myself but just on that. one little story I just having the floor. redone and we had to go get something. and I got I just had work clothes on I. was working right with the rest of them. and I went out with the the floor. cleaners and got in a blue van and drove.

out and about that time 50 ages stormed. through the place kicking windows and. doors in it was already open. and my wife was in in the bedroom with a. with a baby and they kept her at. gunpoint all day long. as they tore that house apart we had. beautiful stuff that was over 100 years. old in there they just took access to. the uh. went to Cherry Wood interior just cut it. up just and uh.

she said like they just scrubbed a bit a. bed across the floor and just made couch. oh don't you it ain't yours no more lady. you know all that sort of stuff it was. just awful he was a sacrilege what they. did to that place yeah so that was that. was probably the nicest property I ever. had and then I uh. took an option to own every foot of land. there was now the city called Moreno. Valley California. and of course I'd have been a billion. there if I could have held on to that.

well I had to run off and leave all that. did you sell it or did it no I just get. it and uh the man I had in his name he. run into the side of a mountain and got. killed and. they're just like. went out of Harry hand to fate turns. against you it turns all the way against. you yeah every which way you turn. damn. well back to. transport cocaine okay so uh. I uh.

I got above the fog one night I was. coming out of Columbia with that uh. playing 300 miles an hour and I got out. there and I couldn't get down. like everywhere I only had maybe an hour. or so fuel left when I got back. and uh there's fogged from. New York to Dallas. I mean it was white all the way up to. Chicago. closed closed closed everything's closed. when the temperature in dew point come. together you will have visible moisture.

so ain't no way to get around it and it. was exactly the same so it looked like. it was about 500 feet thick and full. moon on top of it and I'm sitting up. there thinking I'm going to die I can't. get down. so my only thing was and I I'm not much. of an instrument flyer I'm just more of. a crop duster type out in the jungle. flight anyhow I had to go out the only. choice I had to save my life was to go. out and come down to Glide slope to New. Orleans International Airport and land.

on the airport plane at night. while the airport is closed oh. [ __ ] I set you on that Runway. all night long. got out I bounced down when I got down. there was enough visible to see a little. bit so anyhow I got it down. but to have that nervous to sit there. all night I said that must have been. about 12 hours and the next morning the. sun came out and I could see the sun. through the fog but you couldn't see. 100 feet 200 feet in front of you if.

that. so anyway I just I thought that in. security or anything might come around. check these runways out. now I'm sitting right in the middle. that's kind of off to one side. so I uh I couldn't stand it any longer. it looked like it was breaking up a. little bit and I took off and and uh I. went across to cross uh Lake. Pontchartrain it's 30 miles away and I. had a Runway over there Saint tamathy. Aviation.

and I could see it through the broken. fog. but it was still I knew when I got in it. was going to be blind so I just got off. the end of it wasn't that long of a. Runway and I pulled the power and turned. push the nose down and when I got that. thing stopped I knew I was finished I. had enough money and I said all right so. uh the fellow I gave the cocaine to in. Miami lito the nicest fella and uh I. just says I'm it. yo pay me up I'm through oh no Roger no.

because they they would make him live. money bite when I give it to them. there's probably getting a thousand. dollars a kilo something from. uh Escobar and him so they they had. their old. um. organizations would just let me through. I'll back up a little bit and just tell. you that uh how I got it from Louisiana. to Miami I had to deliver it to Miami. so I had two people going to uh.

automobile auctions they're in Florida. around Orlando and Tampa. and they was buying. uh three big LTD Fords or Marquis. Mercury because he had big trunks and. they put the air shocks on them and they. put these tires it wouldn't couldn't go. flat and new hoses and fan belts I said. I don't care if they look and you put. new ones on there we do not want this. car to stop. so then you could only get 100 kilos in.

the trunk of those cars because it was. so fluffy. and so had drivers to drive it and then. the Colombians. I would give them the car I'd sell it to. them for five thousand dollars they. complained I said listen man you ain't. gonna get anybody else in the world it's. going to get you cars with no they can't. be traced with the. all the paperwork on it it's in great. shape so then they really liked it I. said I don't want that card going to. your stash house and coming back to me I.

don't know I don't know who's looking at. you. Circle I suppose we bought hundreds of. cars. so over the over the time that I worked. with them so anyhow they really like the. car deal so that was something that I. uh. so they says don't you know anybody. anyway so uh I hadn't met. Barry seal. and I'll tell you how I met Barry. I was looking for a place for my own.

about halfway between Colombia and the. United States and so I went to Honduras. and I went to San Pedro Summa. and took my wife and the children down. there and we went up into the mountains. there's a lake up there called Lake Azul. and it's really pretty really really. wonderface and they have largemouth bass. and uh. the largest largemouth bass was Colton. and uh Montgomery Lake right close to my. house about five miles away.

and they were some bigger than that. washed up when they had an earthquake. on that Lake and I like to fish so I. thought no that's pretty so we went up. and did look at a ranch and it was yes. it was just beautiful it's anyhow my. wife didn't want to live there so we. decided we came on back and our clothes. was all of our muddy and dirty from. being up on that ranch for a few days. and we put them into cleaners and we had. a. reservations to fly back to New Orleans.

uh. so we went to the cleaners to get to. close and they said oh they're not ready. we'll have them in the morning. so our planes like at nine o'clock. so I feel my wife you go to the airport. and get on the plane because it'd be. easier for me to get out standby all the. planes are full. than it will be for. all four of us. so I went to the cleaners and got the. clothes and it was a big stack of them. all in there plastic. and I got a taxi driver and I said go. faster go faster and I gave him a.

hundred dollars to go all the way faster. and he just blew the horn faster it. didn't go a bit faster. and we got to the airport and I jumped. out of the taxi and went around the. building and here's the brand new 727. taxiing out. and I waved to the top with all the. clothes on my back and I waved to the. to the pilot and he weighs back and then. I see Murray's face in the cockpit. and so I see the front tire he puts on. the brake and it goes down and he's. laughing and he puts the air stair out.

for me to get on and then I come running. for it and he takes off like it's a. hitchhiker. it's up there a few feet and he stops. again and laughs anyhow he puts it all. the way down and I get on the airplane. with all those clothes on my back well. all the people just clap real big for me. when I got on and I went on back about. halfway back. and my daughter Miriam she was about. that's nine years old eight or nine. years old when she was sitting in the. middle and I sat on the seat and after I. got those clothes taken away.

and uh there was a man sitting there by. the window nice looking fellow clear. blue eyes and I thought oh I wonder what. he is down here so uh. uh the plane took off and the wheels. came up with a thud and went a little. bit further and got up about 5 000 feet. and they were just a little click click. and Miriam said what was that Dad I said. he just turned his autopilot on. fella reaches over and he says you fly. these things huh I got a few hours Mr my.

name Barry seal how you doing. no Kevin so I got talking to him he said. he just got out of jail that morning I. said uh-huh I bet you did. trying to get me to talk I ain't saying. nothing. so we went on and we got to be big. buddies he said he just got out of jail. that that morning what was your initial. impression did you think it was I. thought for sure is there some kind of a. government agent person he just looked. like he he was princely he looked well.

it was he wound up being one kind of. well I know he wasn't he probably was. before that too but he just had he just. had a princely look he just he he had a. demanding uh presence nice looking. fellow and uh I didn't believe him a bit. but I don't we talked flying and. whatever and he said he just gotten out. of prison this morning that morning he. got caught with 100 kilos of cocaine and. Honduras and they'd taken his airplane. and. he just volunteered all that right well. we just okay I just yeah I reckon he did.

he just throwing the flight over there. like a conversation on the way home to a. couple hours we had a nice shadow across. Miriam so when he got out I I didn't I. certainly didn't believe him I thought. he was just fishing for the information. from me. well they was 15 people or more maybe 20. meeting him when he got down there was. old mother there and there's a pretty. wife and little children hanging on him. and crying and grabbing it by the leg. daddy daddy and this and that night man. he had tears in his eyes and it's like.

that sucker's telling the truth. say uh. wrote my name on a little piece of paper. I said Barry I may have some work for. you. and uh come up see me in Santa Barbara. so I want to watch Santa Barbara and he. called and he came out and. so uh. I told him what I had I said I might. have some work playing cocaine yes sir. would he'd be interested in it I said. let me see if you can fly or not. so I took him out and I had a 690 Arrow.

Commander beat it rather new. one three Tango Victors 13 TV I bought. it from channel 13 in Los Angeles. and uh. Barry took over that thing and I mean he. was an ace I'm just I can get him from. one place to another but I'm the waste I. mean he was like a aerobatic Blue Angel. flyer oh wow. so uh. he just wrung that thing out not to him. that's enough he was upside down. backwards sideways.

that's enough he about me I mean sick so. anyhow he said let me show you something. so he cut both engines over the end. Runway and he came in in the caught a. flying Leaf Bob Hoover did him. shows and come and just work. so I knew he could fly anything he. wanted to so I gave him a job and he. took off of my plane he said he had it. uh that he had somebody in Mena Arkansas. that could tank it see so I came after a. week or something he called me and said.

come to Baton Rouge so I flew down there. and stayed in his house in Baton Rouge. and went out to the hangar and that. plane was. professionally. tanked and uh all the way from the uh. cabin back back into the where the. luggage and that thing would I guess. would have probably went from Bolivia to. Canada if we wanted to wow. so I I hired him to fly and I gave him a. thousand dollars a kilo. so then he put now so then I said hey I.

got I got a guy but let's put 500 kilos. on there. so now then that's two and a half. million dollars a load that we're. getting but I paid Barry the million. dollars a load. so I was still making the same amount. that I was before. but I said no I got this place in uh in. Louisiana and I got the place on her he. said no no man he said I'm not going to. land anywhere. except in Mena Arkansas before we go. into that I just want to rewind yes.

you meet this guy and San Pedro Sula yes. Honduras. you land and what a couple weeks later. he's in Santa Barbara. you're verifying that he can fly. he's doing somersaults flying upside. down doing all the tricks did you ask. him hey what where'd you learn how to do. this [ __ ]. no you didn't I don't think no I knew I. didn't he could do it so I didn't care. where he learned you didn't care no he.

could do it I can do most all that stuff. but I ain't no aerobatic pilot like that. all right so it was just it just. normally but he was exceptional he was. as good as any Blue Angel pilot out. there did you ask if it was military or. he flew for anybody before no he told me. that he had been a 747 Captain with. Transworld Airlines. and that he had gotten trouble over a. load to I believe a dc6 and dc7 taking. the explosive to the Cuban Contours and.

they lost their job over that. so uh he was a sport. all right so you're already my friend. now with what you've done yeah. so uh yeah so anyhow uh where were we I. went to his house and uh stayed he's not. going to land anywhere but Arkansas. that's right because he said it's paid. off all the way to the top which can. cost you fifty thousand dollars every. time my wheels land. yeah what are you talking about he says.

can't get caught in Mena Arkansas. and later on whenever I would uh. so the the he was working with he had. CIA connections I don't know where he'd. flung with and also Bill Clinton was. the young man or the governor there so I. understand nothing more about that I. hear that they call it Arkansas up there. instead of homicide. and plus I don't know anything I never.

met those gentlemen I didn't fool with. it that was Barry's end of the story. but anybody wants to look just read. about what happened in Mena Arkansas and. that movie that they made that they. called America made was written as Mina. and when Hillary was running for. president the Democratic party stopped. it. and even the director quit. and they changed part of the script and. they changed the name to America made.

the whole thing's about Mena Arkansas. and Bill Clinton and. a couple of boys that got killed on a. railroad track and put up there by the. shift to get chopped up and ate some. some stories there they got clintoned. they claim it is him I'm glad I didn't. meet him. looked like he was uh. on a plane somewhere that he shouldn't. have been here recently too. yep. he's got a couple paintings down there.

too from what I hear yeah and uh his. brother his brother Roger got caught was. in cocaine and he pardoned him but he. didn't pardon me and uh Roger Roger. Clinton says it Bill's nose was like a. vacuum cleaner in that cocaine pile. [Applause]. but he didn't inhale that's just a good. thing that's Chef hey you know our. presidents are just such fine people. sometimes there are some very. trustworthy individuals aren't there. they'll put you in prison he went in and. he raised the uh the penalty for crack.

cocaine 100 times. they just saying just political. prostitutes is all they are yeah that's. that's the word form I'm on I like that. I'm gonna use that. so Barry was tied in with the clintons. the CIA. and he had free reign to land wherever. he wants. he's not going to get caught in Arkansas. absolutely so I the it was a little far. to go up to mina so I talked to uh. Escobar and him and they said well.

that's no problem so I landed there. myself. to do a loading they put in filler named. Benjamin Ben in the plane with me we. went up to a a landing strip there in in. Nicaragua and I met the generals and all. that and they should land right here. just come in don't say a thing on the. radio just land anytime you want to and. uh we'll refuel you and you get food. whatever you want we'll wash your wind. chill you'd be on your way so how do you.

make these connections I didn't make. them Ocho and Escobar they're just. giving you Direction hey you need to go. to this spot so that that man flew with. me up there to introduce me and he went. back and got killed in a helicopter. crash real nice fellow down in Columbia. a lot of people died in this business. I'm telling you I'm one of the only. people I know still alive. so I'm blessed a lot of a lot of. accidents happen huh and some of them. really were accidents yeah a lot of them. got killed violent and uh and bad people.

in that business and I told my friend I. had a friend later on I hired a feller. in California and I'll just say his name. Jerry he's still alive same age I am and. he flew and uh so he was flying about. once a week and then Barry was flying. once a week and the Colombians would. tell them that your Californian. connections has got more than you are so. they was a little bit competition with. each other so I had two Airlines going. and both of them I bought these Panther. conversions they was at Coke Panthers. there's oh they was wonderful to small.

twin engine planes but you could put 500. kilos in there and two polish and way. overloaded and they'd fly from Columbia. to Arkansas. so uh they were both going but anyhow. how did you find out about those those. conversions I think uh Barry come up. with that Barry I think they had used. him over in Southeast Asia it was a CIA. conversion of a of some kind of a piper. plane it was a CIA conversion right yeah. they had made it and that's what they. was flying over in uh out of Burma and.

Vietnam behind the lines over there. they're real quiet they put big heavy. wide blade propellers on them and put. Q-tips and you couldn't hear the. propeller noise no kidness so uh they. were they were so I bought I think seven. of them 400 000 a piece so were these up. were they open market yeah you could buy. them and they still used to stay out. there now what do they say what do you I. mean like they look like any little. executive airplane they don't look like.

there was no big twin beaches and dc-3s. they look they fit right in just the. only thing you can tell is that large. prop and with the Q-tip on it nobody. would notice that it's somebody knows so. the people you're buying it from are. they do they know what you're doing I. don't think anybody cares there's all. sack full of money and they want they. don't want to report it either okay I'm. sure it was buying airplanes is that you. could just put them in anybody's name. there was nothing to it back then okay. now they've closed that but back then it.

was just easy to get an airplane. so I had Jerry flying and Barry flying. and I mean I was. putting at least. eight eight car loads a week into. the. to the Columbus area in Miami. uh and the money stacked up so I didn't. hardly know what to do with it. so it was uh that was. how close did you get with Barry. we were buddies yes sir best friend yes.

sir uh we're such good friends we've. done staying at domini hotel tomorrow. night and my little boy Rhett was a baby. and uh. uh so Barry we went out to dinner and. come back and there's no rooms I was so. Barry come up stay in our room we had. big two queen-sized beds up there and so. Barry come in there and strip down to. his polka dot under shorts and his. t-shirts he put the baby up on his belly. and gave him the bottle they ate that. good right. so we could spend the Sunday night in.

the same room did each other so that's. what kind of friends we were so he built. a lot of trust a hundred percent no way. I didn't trust that man with my life how. long was your guys's relationship about. two years. so um yeah very did exactly what he said. he would do I mean just right on but he. was a sticker for his money he wouldn't. fly again until he got paid. so and he would belly ache in a kind of. joking way but he he wanted money I.

don't blame him and he no way he. wouldn't do another load until he got. paid so. I owed him a million dollars so I got it. in a nice big box. and I got uh I went to there's a store I. saw these stay free mini pads ladies. feminine napkin. and I put them inside of it. and put a big big bow on it and tied it. up for him he opened that up he thought. it's so funny he put it we put those. things on his mantel piece they stayed. up very long.

yes I love Barry oh he was he was a. friend of mine I don't have many friends. in life that was real good friends but. Barry was a good friend of mine. so uh. I uh. were you guys ever flying together no. always separate just separate uh well. yeah I flew it a few times we just go in. somewhere but nothing to do not working. no working no is there a reason for that. or just too busy I didn't need anybody. to fly with me if anybody ever I get Fly.

With Me get scared and it's con it's. contagious. I'm not scared by myself I've had some. people really scare me on airplanes. crying we're gonna die it's been a. particular up in Alaska up in an ice. storm I got into one time. so I I on something like that no I don't. need anybody at all okay. uh. how does it. how does it develop with Barry. you just developed into a friendship and. he'd get his money and go about his.

business and you know I moved down to. Key Biscayne Florida where I was closer. to the uh to the people and. um. I was the only one. to meet those people and the guy was. leito was his name and I would stay at. some Cuban shop and sandwich shop in. line and we'd meet and I tell him where. to meet me and I'd point out the cars. where they where they were parked and so. that was that was how we did it no no. talking no phone calls nothing just. straight up here's the keys.

and uh yeah so anyway I was I'll regress. you a little bit in that whenever uh. Barry wanted the Panthers then I had. that Arrow Commander that I thought it. might be kind of hot so I had parked it. it uh in a place in toucan airport down. in Jamaica. so I don't know why I wanted to sell. that thing for half a million dollars. making more than that a day almost but I.

took a I want to get rid of something to. do so I flew down with a uh a broker. from San Antonio Texas. and uh so we went out and washed the. airplane and took the tanks out and put. the seats back in it. and uh. we took off and just the time we got the. end of the runway before that airplane. went to turn it in a circle. it's scared to live in Daylights out of. me what in the world I thought that. planet got bent. the trucks hit this thing we ain't gonna.

be able to land it we spiraling up going. up that thing's got a lot of power. spiraling up in circles well anyway. he's up here. fooling with the trim tap and somebody. had sit in that airplane and just flew. the trim tab for the trim and one of. them little things is just benign on. your checklist and neither one of us. noticed it and it had trimmed over and. it's got that plane flying in circles. got that thing straightened out but my. knees was knocking.

so we landed and uh went back to the. Pegasus Hotel after our. brush with death and uh. we had ordered drinks out on the patio. and there was a table there over away. and there was a grandma and there was. Mom and Dad and two pretty girls and. kind of like evening party dresses. pretty girls and so they was having a. hard time they they was speaking Spanish. and they couldn't make the black waiter. from Jamaica understand what they wanted.

so I went over to the table and I said I. speak a little Spanish could I help you. oh please and so I told the waiter what. they wanted and then they asked us come. come sit with us. so we we moved over and set this table. on the balcony with them. and they told me that uh. they was. there that Grandma had come from the. United States and brought presents. because it was a Twin's 17th birthday. and that's the reason they had the party. dresses on out on the balcony of that.

hotel they said that their whole family. had gone to Miami or going to Florida on. the Muriel Boat Lift when Carter said. that the Cubans could could come and he. wanted to and then Castro did a dirty he. emptied the insane asylums and all the. prisons in Cuba and put them on the. boats but they just went with everybody. else and every all their family went but. Papa Was a professor and he was holding. back let's see what happens on this and. then Carter saw what happened and it. closed that that terrible mistake they.

made. so this family had gone to Jamaica. hoping to get to uh. to the United States but they were stuck. there and Papa was working in a machine. shop for fifty dollars a month and. Grandma had come down with gifts they. couldn't wasn't he making enough to live. so I said I see ya. Philip was gonna buy the airplane I said. would you in for a little a little. adventure and he said yeah. so I said I'll take you to. to.

United States tomorrow how what what I. said don't worry about it I can get you. there well they didn't believe me so. anyway they called all night and had the. boss call and somebody else called up to. my room and uh I said go to air Jamaican. tomorrow morning and each one of you. just bring one bag one suitcase don't. don't bring any more than one. and uh so when I cranked up and found my. flight plan I filed it to Mary to Mexico. because I didn't know I certainly had to. stop somewhere. so I.

I went into Air Jamaica said I need some. hydraulic fluid and I went in and they. jumped in but they had one little travel. case they had misunderstood me. so they got in the airplane and shut the. windows and I reversed it and backed out. I'm going down the taxiway and somebody. told that these people had gotten a. plane and uh the Kingston Tower says one. three Tango Victor holds your position. rather hard. and then oh oh and I nodded to the.

co-pilot and I said. I said Kingston Tower your transmission. is broken and unreadable good day. from down to tax the way I went and took. off nice I got about 30 000 feet and the. landing gear came down and the wheel and. the flaps came into the I was out of. hydraulic fluid the line had been set up. and been sitting there maybe a year and. it just got loose. so wow I had to land straight ahead and. I landed it uh.

where I took all the money. anyway we can't think of it right now. what's the island right between Mexico. uh the British island where all the. people go for the money I just can't. figure anyway. [Music]. pardon what did you say the Virgin. Islands no. I can't think I even know his name is I. know my own um. where was it that money place that. uh came in.

Grand Cayman Grand Cayman Island. Grand game thank you my pleasure I've. been in there 40 times I can't think of. it yes and uh anyway I told him get out. get out and go around behind and and get. get some coffee and hamburgers they went. around and here come the the British. police with their guns and their little. pistol which is unusual and they. searched the airplane and my. contraband's at the table. so anyway we get the hydraulic fluid.

fixed and I get back in and we file a. flight plan to Merida now then. I can't go into Merida I don't know what. they're going to do with the Cuban. people with Cuban passports so we. stopped at uh chicken Itza. and uh we get out and we just walk into. a wall of rain halfway down the runway. and the other pilot from San Antonio. takes off and we leave I'll leave there. when Mom and Dad and the two girls. so we walk out we get soaked and we walk. back about a mile to the highway it's a.

small highway coming across Mexico there. and we wave and wave all afternoon and I. was so close. the car is way back and I pull out a. hundred dollar bill and I wave it and. they way back and late in the afternoon. an old school bus made in Fort Valley. Georgia stopped and they got pigs and. chickens and we almost sitting there. steaming it and that and we get to. Meredith that night about Mexico and and. they've that politics stayed up they got. a cook for us and somebody washed and.

iron our clothes and they kept I. remember we had pepper steaks and we. went to bed the next morning. we went out and uh. he filed a flight plant in New Orleans. and we had the big truck come between. the flight planning office and the. airplane and we slipped in so he filed. it for one. so we fly across we go from Mexico. and we land in a cane field there in. Southern Louisiana. and we jump out real quick and the pilot. takes off and goes on in and clears. customs and you only so he won't get in. trouble.

well we look down. and it looked like it's a mile both ways. of canal would scum on it and I thought. it might be about Knee Deep that's don't. walk all the way around there was a. junkyard across across the way there and. so we get down in that water and pretty. soon it's nearly up to them girl's chin. it's green scum all over them. that little suitcase up over the head. he's waiting across the water running. away across this thing way deeper than. it looked like anyhow that's twice we've. been soaked wet and coming so I'm.

bringing my charge on so we come out to. the uh. junkyard on the other side. and there's a man uh. would uh. oh Buick with the fender all front. fender off and it's got rustole all over. the place right and I said mister I'll. give you a hundred dollars to take me to. Bourbon Street in New Orleans you got a. deal he opens the door and one minute. later we're doing 80 miles an hour. through the cane fields of Louisiana. with these girls anyhow we come down. here and we needed some clothes and uh.

we went shopping went stayed in the. Queen Anne Hotel one of my favorites. here in New Orleans and I took them. shopping and they were so meager and. they just bring me back the little. change no no just go. go shopping. so uh that night they called everybody. in Miami and that we're going to come. down on a on a Delta the next day. and so uh we we got in there and we. landed it in Miami the next next. afternoon.

and they were so many Cuban people. standing there I mean with cameras. flashing and we got off and they they. had so many cherish Regals till I. couldn't tow them the girls was covered. in flowers and they took me to Opa-locka. out there and they had a street. barricaded off and they was barbecuing. Hogs and goats out there what a party. they would have put me on my shoulders. and and take them. so anyway I had somebody in my pocket. and I took it took in the front room and. they gave gave it to Mom and Dad and. they just stood there and cried.

so uh. some years later I uh I jump ahead in 40. years and I uh I went to prison after. pretty close after that I'll tell you. and I lost contact with them and so. somebody read my book here a few months. ago and or they did and I was in Miami. and I went to see them. and what a joyous reunion they hugged my. neck they lived in a gated community. their children with phds and blood. spatter stuff for this for the city of.

whatever that business is and uh we just. had a wonderful Fiesta there with them. here this is the video you just showed. me I'll show you that video that's. amazing yes so anyway they said you have. a house here as long as you live that. was that was 20 years 40 years ago 40. years 40 years ago almost exactly to the. day. man so that was it well let's take a. little break let's take a break.

I promise to uh solemnly swear that the. testimony amid fresh reports of Reckless. Behavior by Blackwater in Iraq. blackwater's CEO Eric Prince made no. apologies to a congressional. investigating committee I disagree with. the assertion that they acted like. cowboys. and it says three Senators Joe Biden. Chuck Cagle and John Kerry the future. vice president secretary of defense and. Secretary of State respectively pose.

while waiting for Blackwater rescue. their U.S army helicopter got lost in a. blinding snowstorm and set down in. Taliban territory on the side of a. mountain. ever. discount. on the Biden Obama administration then. as there is now. [Music]. he said Mr President give us the.

authorities and a billion dollars and in. three weeks the Flies will be walking in. the eyeballs of enemies. Prince said his employees act with. restraint and professionalism he boasted. that none of the U.S diplomats he has. paid to protect have been killed or. wounded it was a great honor that they. turned to us because it was a very. important mission right because the CIA. is the ones who made that Victory. possible for the United States. we've had a better response from. Blackwater than we have from the state. department we fought back on all fronts.

the one place. that they had us over a barrel was in. the state department Witnesses say the. two SUVs were ambushed as they drove. through town another Convoy of guys that. got ambushed and shot up on the Baghdad. Highway the contractors worked for. Blackwater security a company that. protects Coalition Personnel knowing. that the clowns at the state department. and the Obama Administration did. everything they could to block a program. like that because it's not something. they directly controlled it is such a.

mess it is such a fetid swamp Trump was. right to call it a swamp it is. [Music]. foreign. Roger before we get into dropping the. money in the Grand Caymans. I wanna we are we're always going to. Louisiana. yeah you're always dropping loads in.

Louisiana I'm just curious why is it. always Louisiana. okay. you know I told you that I I've figured. out how to get to marijuana into the. United States by going way out 300 miles. off the coast of San Diego and coming. around behind the Santa Barbara Islands. well I went down to New Orleans in Iowa. excuse me. I uh cleaned the Russian Green Ships and. I'd go fishing out there and I saw all.

those helicopters coming in from those. oil wells these hundreds of oil wells. off the coast of Louisiana they go out. for 100 miles or so. that Mississippi River. flooded that out and I believe it's 6. 000 feet deep of Muk under that Gulf Air. that's where all those shrimp and they. go out shrimping and those oil wells are. there and they just punch it right. through that Mulk nothing and then right. down into the the oil and the gas. and every afternoon there's there's a.

dozen or 20 helicopters going back forth. changing Crews. they just like the fireflies everywhere. out there about dark coming in and I. said no that's all right you get in. amongst them you won't be seen. so when I started flying out coming up. from the other way in landing. out of Colombia or oh good I said hey. I'm not going back across that that. border into Texas or California of. course it's further so I'm going.

straight into Louisiana because it's. exactly North just put your compass. North and that's it's no more and uh. so I would come over Merida Mexico I'd. stay I'd stay out in the Caribbean awful. land off of uh Nicaragua particularly. you know for Cuba I fly up with the um. in the channel between Mexico and Cuba. and uh cut across part of Merit of. Yucatan and then when I got about 200. 300 miles out from. the United States Coast.

the ADI Zig Zone where they do have. defense I'd put that baby on the ground. on the water and uh slow it down and. come in without way just after Dark. and I'd come in slow with those. helicopters. and I know they couldn't see me and and. those oil wells some of them are several. hundred feet high and uh I'd come in. somehow they'd be higher than I was. wow weave in and come on out there and. land so I knew I wasn't on anybody to.

read are they I guess they could have. there's too much going on but they they. would broke my airplane sometime but I'd. always find the bugs they was mad that. was into court records those things cost. 17 000 a piece and I had a collection of. them foreign. metal and there's only a few places on. the airplane that's got not metal like. glass or Rubber and that's where they'd. put them and you can see right right. where they had taken the screws out put. it back in tried to cover it up.

I'll be damned so that's why I went to. Louisiana. makes a hell of a lot of sense yeah so. Grand Cayman Ramsay came with Island. money's piling up I mean money's piling. up by the Millions. and uh. where are you putting all this. I'm telling you just I'm buried it in. the ground a lot of time just buried in. the sand and paint cans without without. oops on it. and uh so at this particular time I got.

up I had about 15 million dollars and uh. I uh. it was too too big for me to carry so I. hired a I believe it was a falcon jet. out of San Antonio. and went out to California picked up. some and come back to uh San Antonio and. got some more and then and then we went. to I had to lay on top of the money. uh I'll tell you that uh a a bill a. United States bill from one or a hundred.

dollars they weigh one gram. so uh you got a thousand bills. is one kilogram. so. uh. so anyhow a. a million dollars and hundred dollar. bills is is 10 kilograms so that's. that's a hundred thousand that's that's. only 22.2 pounds but if you put them in. 100 in one dollar bills it's one ton 2. 200 pounds.

I think it's funny that you know this so. yeah you weigh your money you don't have. a gallon you just weigh it and you you. just about dead on if you just clip. through it and see if it's all 20s or 50. and put it on the scale it's right there. what you got okay and it's right it's. just about as right as you can count it. okay. so uh got where you didn't even have to. it those people their money was correct. anyway right to it so uh anyhow weigh. the money. so I uh. I had a I must have had a lot of 20s.

yeah we packed that plane so full the. pilots had to get in first and then. finish packing it up then I called and. laid up on top of the money. and we went to Grand Cayman Island. and uh they. uh van would back up unload the money in. it and then the pilots could get out and. we'd go to the bank and uh and and they. pretend to count it and there's about 20. people behind it 20 men and women all in. the starts iron shirts and ties and if I.

wrapped my twenty hundred dollar bills. to hit yes the ground on the other side. you know they stole I I mean most every. load did steal at least forty thousand. dollars out of it there was nothing I. could do yeah. later on they stole it all. Banker just took it and went out of. business now he's over in Bakersfield. California accounting and says the. Reverend Stephen McTaggart he got a. house over there with a motor around it. made made look like the English style.

feeding the deer and the turkeys on my. money wow I went over to see him and. they said we don't know you we don't. want to talk to you he had to put me. back in prison in a Flash if I'd said. something. damn. I wonder how many people. that happened to. I don't know most people would have done. something to him right that's that's why. I'm asking yeah you know most just knew. I would he knew I wanted to kill her so. just did it yeah. how long was it there for for all one.

went away uh about three years and I was. making 14 interest. so. I bought. bought gold coins cougar Ends by the. time. with that he just. that was how I got the money down to. Grand Cayman Island. how did your relationship with Ochoa and. Escobar develop through the years.

uh. my uh. Ocho invited my family myself and we. went to his his Ranch it was just north. of Barranquilla that thing was a. paradise it looked like Africa and he. had all the out you know these what I. was most impressed with was a big Avery. with the all the birds in it he had. birds from all over the world in there I. like birds and then we went out there. and there were the giraffes and the. zebras and all the stuff in it he had a.

little little Ultra Lights On floats I. flew that around he had both take his. water ski in and it was just fun we. spent the weekend with them he had big. old his great old big 400 found father. and his mother and his brothers and. sisters his brother put on a bull fight. and a real bull fight too I mean there's. that guy could. laugh Fabio so that guy got with him and. uh Escobar I never had any uh real.

social meeting like that with the family. uh. I remember we've gotten his plane and we. flew to uh I must have had a lot of farm. but he had bought some place to come. across it and uh it was just a regular. place and a house we had some coffee. there and he asked me uh uh you ride a. motorcycle yeah I ride motorcycles so. they had these dirt bikes out there. I think. so. there's four or five of them ready to go. and I just took over yum and there's a.

little ditch out there about Knee Deep. and about that wide and my front field. failed in there and I went skidding. across. oh. they knew I was going to do it it was. like a trap. it was a setup there's a setup of course. it was I said we rode around the. motorcycles a while and then we got on. horses and he wanted to know if he had a. machine gun pistol you know how to use. this yeah never seen one before.

and so we rounded up some cows with. bunks of stumps and stuff and pretend. like we Cowboys and I went on back and. and flew on back to Medellin and so that. was one time with him in. um when you're around these guys. what's their Entourage look like is it. is it you and them alone is no 50 guards. around them uh Ochoa had one pistol. Arrow. I bet he was a crack shot though and uh.

that was only one when he was driving. whatever I went with him sometime and I. went to a funeral with him and uh. uh but Escobar had several bodyguards. did he yeah he was whoever went with him. there was about three or four fellas. there that was you know it was well. armed. and so but you didn't see it you just. just like a bunch of them you just knew. they were around well they were there. for sure they was there when they were. they protect him because he I suppose.

he'd killed a bunch of people he's. murderer yeah and uh. so I I uh I only met him I guess four. times but I went down to one time and. saw him and I said listen man that. Runway is just too short in the jungle. and we we're having trouble getting off. there. next time the boys went down there they. said it looked like LA International he. cleaned the jungle down he had. bulldozers down in Old Clay and it was. smooth five thousand feet so he he got. he got it done if you ask him to do. something.

okay because it was it was a lot don't. know that was like 15 million dollar. worth of coke there coming out twice a. week yeah so they was interested in. keeping me happy I mean it's kind of a. mystery on who was in charge of the. Medellin cartel. they were no leader there was I suppose. that uh the only ones that I ever knew. was Pablo and Jorge okay and uh Jorge. was one that was my Handler let's say. and I know I mean because it was right.

there next door and I I knew the uh the. cocaine coming there would be a I. believe 25 kilos in a duffel bag and the. duffel bag would have a lock on it. and they would be. um. what the people used to Brand their. steers to their animals with they would. look like brands on those duffel bags. okay three rattlesnakes or three X's or. whatever that they had. and I kind of learned so I know that. ocho was shipping a lot more than than.

Escobar was was it yes there was three. of them they were three brothers and old. men and and I don't know but these. certainly they were for my opinion they. were a lot bigger but each one of them. was individual. and I told you about how it was an. insurance company with the ten thousand. dollars guaranteed yes so that was why. they had so much of it did they just. whoever they wanted to coming out of the. Jungle so I'm just I'm curious about the. structure of the Medellin cartel is it.

is the Medellin cartel like an umbrella. company and then you have. Jorge Ochoa and Pablo Escobar is. subsidiary companies they're no they. were not in apartments it was just. individual people just like you and I. Tim over there and we've come and says. all right we got enough money we big. enough that's just let's make this if. you've we got this organization they. call it a cartel we got a roof agreement. that we will you the people of Colombia.

you give us your cocaine. and we will ship it for you for ten. thousand dollars a kilo now they become. just a shipping agent. now they paid me five thousand dollars. to carry it so they made five thousand. dollars just receiving it from the. little people 10 kilos 100 kilos. putting it in my airplane and then there. are people in Miami they had a couple of. a lot of safe houses and no kidding so. this is so essentially.

at this time the Medellin cartel is. essentially just a. illegal logistics company shipping a. shipping outfit they just just five guys. got together and said listen we got. enough money let's stop this killing ten. thousand people a year are killed right. here in Medellin over this cocaine let's. stop that. we have no no reason to anybody killed. anybody else ever again. so they did that to stop the violence to.

stop the violence and plus they got a. mega million dollars out after yeah. listen we're making five thousand. dollars every time you you bring us one. and all we got to do is put it in Rogers. airplane and he gets it to my man Leto. in Miami yeah veto gives it to whoever. they tell him to give it to that's it. well I mean then it developed into more. than that because they started killing. everybody. well. Ocho I don't believe ever got into it I. think they might have had bare seal.

killed but other than that Escobar was a. killer nobody else the rest of the. fellas didn't. the they had. okay the best I'll understand it was. that they were three organizations in. Colombia that was in the cocaine. business the military was one they won. his biggest and then they had the fart. gorillas that owned a third or maybe. almost half of the country particularly. all the Amazon area and they were the.

Growers and plus the people from Bolivia. and Peru were shipping their base up. because they could get to Ether up there. to manufacture it. so they the farc was big time in it and. that's where they got their money to try. to take over the government and they. were communist. so uh but then you had to I'll call them. the white Colombians the landowners then. on the ranchers up in the highlands all. all throughout Colombia well they were.

dead against the farc because farts was. wanting to take their land yeah so they. was they was at War. to some scale with the farts now the. military definitely is wanting the farts. out of the way because they they're. going to take over the country and get. rid of the military now the military was. in the cocaine business too that's for. sure you can't say they weren't they was. I don't know how big they were but they. was. they were shipping it. so but the uh the the white Colombians.

landowners was was big too so there was. kind of a three-way war going on there. okay. and uh. and what are the cartels fall under this. well they were there with a white. landowner they were the white landowners. yes so what about the what about the. Cali cartel versus the Medellin cartel. okay now the Cal the after the Cali. cartel uh I mean the Medellin cartel got. in trouble. then Cali sprung up and I um I spent.

four days in the house with the. McGill. I can't say it Aurelio the one that was. the uh the the big um. they owned drugstores down there okay. and uh I'm not familiar no anyhow I. don't I'm not either but I never did any. business but I went went to Canada to. unload a load for 20 tons for them. takali or to for the Cali cartel later. on okay and uh that uh I was up in.

Canada and um. Reddit. 2000 and uh the millennium. and so I was waiting on the boat to come. I had a big boat to go out and meet it. and two big dump trucks to put it in and. all that and they just gonna pay for 20. I was gonna make 40 million dollars for. one knife work. so 40 million dollars two thousand. dollars kilo to unload this ship it was. a big boat coming out of Lima a big. container ship and one of the containers.

was going to be on the back and they had. a big rope and every six feet or so was. a hook with it with 20 kilos of. marijuana of cocaine to it all in. waterproof bags and it was gonna it. would be string out a mile and then I. had a salmon uh salmon book with a reel. on it to reel that in and put it into. the official oh wow so anyway I got all. that nice and I like an idiot they. wanted to give me some money I know man. I'll I'll take care of that well I.

called my friend down there Mario. where's the boat we ready you know we're. waiting he said Layla Leticia. read the newspaper. so I got went got her a newspaper. 700 arrested worldwide. and there's the people I'm working for. number one two three four five oh man. I got rid of that stuff I had I sold it. a fire sale on the same morning.

we're having a liquidation. and we hit it I didn't want to come. across the border or nothing we went. East all the way to Montreal oh before I. got stopped holy [ __ ] that's how close I. came to it wow. damn I had stitches in that thing from. all the way back that was a Cali cartel. that's that was my only uh dealings with. them okay. did you go down to Kali at all oh I.

stayed in Cali for months I just stayed. down there and I enjoyed it very much. yes you know I lived in Columbia for. five years roughly in and out of there. and uh well I'm just curious what was. your favorite part. of Columbia to go to was it Medellin I. think so yes and then we gotta Medellin. and not in that area there yes I like. the mountains behind uh. Santa Marta you go up to the mountains. it's got snow wanted you to go up there. and the Indian people it's so nice in. the little coffee farms and you look.

down on the sailboats in the ocean and. we take mules and go back into the back. country and I mean it was just oh they'd. be mule trains 50 mules some guy on the. front of it and in the night it they'd. pass each other and I remember those two. guys and one of them they both have. cigarettes you can see a cigarette glue. and those guys with a deep voice adios. adiosa the world saying goodbye and I. found out the adiosa means to God to God. adiosis yeah and so I said all right and.

then you see some little boy with a. switch bringing up that last donkey in. the back them huge bales of marijuana. all on it that was just so romantic it. was just beautiful. you go into a place that they must have. like four or 500 mules donkeys yeah and. they'd have a tack room there that you. just couldn't believe with the Saddles. and and work settled and just go out and. lasso what you want and go did you ever. buy any property in Columbia no I didn't. did you ever want to no okay it was.

lawless when I was down there I think. it's I knew it's better off now but it's. not back then it was just like good. gracious you don't know yeah I actually. had my best friend bought a condo and. Carter had. got ripped out right from under him and. that was about two thousand. fifteen yeah maybe but. um if I wanted to buy some stuff did you. ever go down and look at. when I was going down to Medellin.

um I dabbled in a lot of cocaine and uh. I would go did you ever go to look at. Pablo Escobar's grave no I didn't I've. never been there since then oh I did I. went. yeah when I got out of prison in Germany. well I'm getting ahead of myself. I went to Columbia again did you yeah. it's interesting I I went to his grave. and uh. it's really I was expecting something. like this huge.

Shrine or something. it's just a little I'll put a picture up. on it right now but it's just a little. a little Tombstone just a little. headstone doesn't even come out of the. ground and. um his family's buried next to him and. on one side of this cemetery is all the. mafiosos. and on the other side is all the. politicians the police officers. yeah it's really it's really weird and.

uh. yeah we'll go over there and um I just. wanted to see all this stuff you know so. it's history throw a little cocaine on. his Tombstone and blast a line off of it. I wonder if he even did any cocaine I do. too I don't think he did he didn't seem. like to tell her to do it well you know. him better than I did yeah but. um. but yeah there's some wild times down. there I don't think the Ocho was ever. ever I went there I stayed there several.

days of their house with my family. there's no not even a cigarette was. smoked just gentle people really that's. really nice people just you just. wouldn't think. it's like I am I'm not I'm not a bad. person because I did that stuff so I. mean they weren't either. okay that's just people that fell into. it they was resting tears they had money. there was good good people and they you. give me a million dollars to move that. chair from one side room to the other. well.

I'll see if I can't get it across there. yeah. why do you think. I mean escobarga labeled the richest man. in the world the most wealthy man in the. world of on time. but then I'm sitting here talking to you. and you're saying that the old that uh. Jorge Ochoa was shipping out way more. than Escobar. do you think that Jorge's didn't give a. [ __ ] about being in the Limelight and. maybe that's going at all and when they. built that prison he stayed in the.

prison I lay down Escobar lay down he. was. he wanted in the Limelight he was going. to be in it I reckon he but when I met. him he didn't seem like but later on I. mean I'm sorry I ever knew him I'm sorry. I ever shook his hand it's an evil man I. mean somebody blew in an airline yeah. and bring kill all those people I mean I. understand him more you're fighting. somebody kill him but just to kill. babies and women and children just just.

airplane full of people flying along and. just get blown out of the sky yeah they. ain't no place in Hell hot enough for. him they have tours now in Medellin. where you can go and they give you the. tour on all the government buildings. that he's blown up and all the church. all the stuff you know it was awful went. to the uh. but there's a church where all the the. sicarios or the Assassins go to pray. before they do their hits It's.

it's still a very interesting culture. down there if you could yeah. satanic diabolical same thing with Putin. right now doing over what he's doing. what are these people what really what. in the world gets in their mind to do. something like that to kill all these. all these wonderful innocent people yeah. or kill them anybody were they innocent. or not that just take lives it's just. precious it's just no way yeah. so.

when you were involved with the with the. Medellin cartel and doing trans. transportation for them. um. did you see the violence start to. develop I didn't ever see any violence. any violence I hear about it I mean well. I told you about the blood spattering on. me when somebody shot the dog and shot. yeah the man but I mean even in Miami. Miami became I mean yeah but Miami was a. war zone in the 80s I was living there. when they shot up that liquor store down. there but you had to know that all this.

was I knew centered around cocaine of. course it was and Miami was just driving. on it it was just but it just. it just seemed like. like if when we was in Vietnam you're in. a war out there but you don't you're not. Vietnam you don't see it. did it bother you at all. that. because I mean from from the time you. met Escobar to. I mean things have developed and changed.

so much you know did you were you glad. you weren't dealing with Escobar were. you glad you were dealing with Ochoa did. it bother you how much violence was. starting to pop up about you know. because of. I didn't I didn't know much about any. violence and I didn't feel it or I. didn't see anything with me Landing an. airplane and getting the windshield. wiped and putting the gas in it throw. that stuff in there and taking off and. flying back and. getting it out of the airplane it would.

just like I was worried more about. getting caught with a DEA and those. planes that was out there with me and I. wasn't even thinking about those people. down there well they had that covered. okay so he was just he landed in. Nicaragua or the generals there and. everybody there and just like it was all. you know we've been hauling corn. nobody cared. they were just like this is this is. money. and I didn't I didn't see any violence. and I I mean as far as cocaine at that.

time it was not killing anybody not that. I've ever heard of now people say that. it didn't people may have a heart attack. from me making you go. uh the heart go too fast but uh I I. don't now I understand with the with the. crack and stuff they put it with it. didn't kill you but pure cocaine is from. what I understand is. not all that bad for you and plus it was. just rich people doing it. and I was a hero for bringing it to him.

so we were just and then then later on. it did change completely changed but I. was in prison during those years at some. point and I'm not sure where this fits. in with this story. you moved to 130 foot. yacht I believe. yes. which one you're talking about well. there we go you moved 100 tons of. cocaine.

oh no that was way way later let's don't. skip that that's going 20 more okay get. some years in front I did um I took 2K. um an 80-foot sailboat went around the. world got three and a half tons of. hashish did I tell you about that and. took it into Canada went around through. from Pakistan. and uh then I think I mentioned that and. then I I bought a. 125 foot Coast Guard Cutter. and was going to take it to uh Thailand.

to get a load and bring it back. and the crew abandoned it in quiet High. Harbor they got scared. and I found out from the newspaper that. a mystery ship abound in Kauai Harbor. folks and dragon and hippers had gone. over there and claimed it for a salvage. and we went over there and it took a. month or two to get that thing straight. now they had stole every piece of brass. off of it oh the instrument side of it. and sold it that was a crew thank you.

did that to me so I've had some so. anyhow that was that one uh that was a. two that I hold but you were on the boat. from uh Pakistan correct yes how long. did that take. it takes several months we didn't I mean. what what are you doing on there for so. how did you stay awake at least four of. us I'm just kidding they wonder if. you're shipping a thing of cocaine man.

I like country music and the other three. was uh was rockers so anyhow I think I. had. you know some of my stuff Hank Williams. and I'm missing a Hank William tape. they've thrown it overboard so I throw. two of those. and by the time we got to Gibraltar they. wanted to tape on that book. there was four of it yes uh-huh. we didn't know what we were doing I I. went and took a.

eight tracks and plug it in and and. learn to navigate Celestial so I'm a. Celestial Navigator incredible. incredible I got this around the world. well let's um let's fill in the blanks. then before we hit the 130 foot yacht. all right yes there's a lot of them. I came oh yes. all right I took a load of money down. another load of money down to Grand. Cayman Island and I decided I'd just fly.

back commercially. and I had the little receipt for how. many millions of dollars I had in my. pocket. and I got to Miami and there was a. warrant for my arrest and they took me. into the office and said you're you've. been arrested in this from. LA and I thought was that Los Angeles or. Louisiana. and I didn't think too much about it I. hadn't done anything I hadn't been. caught doing nothing I hadn't done. nothing in a while. so anyway they took me.

took me in back into Customs fling and. it says yes and so I went into the. bathroom and. I got rid of that receipt for that 15. million dollars or whatever it was. flushed it. and they took me to jail and I found out. it was I was charged with continuing. criminal Enterprise. which carries up to life without parole. for marijuana. importation. and I was number 41 person in the United. States that would be charged with that. terrible crime.

John Gotti was number 42. and he died in there most of them do die. just get charged with that I said what. do you mean what's 848 title 21 well you. have to uh. be organized three different. organizations with five people or more. because I've never done that. action. who who was a mechanic on your airplanes. who gassed it up. who put the marijuana in there who.

unloaded it who sold it. we can think of a dozen it's in that. chain yeah you were responsible for. wow saying hired Albert Krieger I guess. the smartest and best lawyer I've ever. heard of. and uh. my bill was five million dollars. five million dollars I had it nearby. back pocket money but it called nebby to. hearing and you had to prove where it. come from. well I'm not getting out of jail no time.

soon so anyway I I go I uh. I give up my property I give up millions. and millions of dollars to the to the. government and. um pay the cost of prosecution whatever. else they wanted so I wound up with uh. 35 years. with a five-year sentence and 30-year. special parole probation. Mr Reeves oh and the prosecutor got up. there Lane Phillips and had a hole in. his shoe and he's.

he's preaching. your honor. Mr Reeves is not a drug dealer oh he was. like he was a movie star and I know he. practices in the mirror your honor Mr. Reeves is not a drug Smuggler. your honor Mr Reeves is a drug. industrialist with a fleet of planes and. a Navy of ships at his disposal he. spanned the globe for three decades with. his death and destruction we asked for. nothing but a life sentence.

the little judge gave me 35 years. and I think he was on my side but he had. to go along with what the prosecution so. anyhow and then he gave me 30 years of. parole probation and uh pay the cost of. prosecution and. so I wound up and I had to do two years. a little over two years on that five. years. so I went to prison and. oh boy I was down at Terminal Island and. I was into.

rather interesting that John DeLorean. came in. I'm gonna go gain charges and he was in. the sale next to me. and uh Mario. Pretty Woman 39 years old with a baby. and she came and we had a new Mercedes. and John delorean's wife uh. what was her name Christine Ferrari she. looked they had similar features and she. had a Mercedes just like we had so when. my wife would come to the jail the. Helicopter Flop on all the news people.

get out anyhow they got the wrong Beauty. anyway I got to be friends with John. DeLorean and so I saw him with those. lawyers coming from New York with a. shark skinned suits on and he didn't. know what to do and neither did I so I. said John I don't know what I wouldn't. advise nobody on the lawyer but when we. go to try when we go to court that judge. I I got um. my lawyers from Florida. pay any big money but we got a little. lawyer named Howard Weitzman.

that for ten thousand dollars he's the. lawyer for local attorney that would. have to use to go and the judge says how. you doing Howard how's the wife and the. youngins and that dog how puppies yet. and I said man they get along fine I. said if I had anything I'd get a lot of. rid of that big lawyer and get that. little lawyer he said well you. introduced me to him and I said yes so I. called Howard up and he got John. DeLorean as his lawyer and uh and they. won that case the biggest entrapment. case ever in history or the the DEA had.

tried to trap DeLorean they didn't know. anything about it he's. put him in a room with a lot of cameras. all hidden this stuff is more valuable. than gold isn't it how many kilos can I. have to have I'm 100 only white you. could get 100. he won anyhow John DeLorean sent me a a. Christmas card every year for as long as. he lived okay so uh I made friends in. there with that and uh.

then uh after I got sentenced. I uh they put me on a bush. going north to Pleasington Pleasanton. prison I never heard of it. well I was in there and they had like 40. little cages they had a guy in the front. with a driver and then he had another. one with a shotgun with a banana clip. and then he had another one behind us. with a banana clip and we took off and. went to. Lompoc Penitentiary night wow well they. put off a couple of guys and picked up a. couple they went across the street to.

the farm and picked up a couple then. they went on up to Pleasanton I had no. idea. and went in that gate and man there's. pretty blonde women in the clothes and. long dress and they waved to us. this is a co-ed prison they put me in. these. 400 women in there. young good-looking the old Federal. robbers are not really robbers they were. in there. that they worked in Banks across the. United States and uh they were.

secretaries to the president of the bank. well they had boyfriends or husbands. that needed the loan to build a house. for four hundred thousand dollars so. they signed the president's name. and the boyfriend got the loan he didn't. pay it back. and they got about five years apiece and. they were just coming in there regularly. anyhow they let us wear our own clothes. and we could walk with the girls the. girls had two chalets and the men had.

one there's 200 men in here and 400. women. and those women was. that's a good ratio rather frisky. but I'm telling you what so uh. I went in and I. went into our Chalet and it just showed. me my cell and so the nice Garden lady. tall woman Finn and about 30 years old. and she gave us an induction. oh she just come from where we started.

and she opened the first door I mean. I've never been there for an hour. and I'm having induction. and when she opens that door there's two. guys in the compromise position with. their pants around their legs. and they look like George Bush when they. told him. the Trade Center blew up their eyes. looked like two owls turned that way. and she said send your send your Flacco. would you please uninsert your penis.

from senior Gordo direct oh my and come. to my office but uh clean up first. please and she shut the door and I. thought damn I mean is this what prison. gonna be like but after 33 years in. prison is the only time I ever saw. something like that. well that's good so anyway that's a. homosexuality that I saw in prison so he. went on down anyway uh that was that was. a delightful time that I spent in that.

prison up there those women I mean we. had uh I guess there was a woman there. every month they give you a have a dance. and the band would come in you can dance. with the girls on the big store this is. prison this is prison we wore our own. clothes I had a trench coat with a scarf. around my neck. [Laughter]. so and uh they had guards it would slip. up in the wheat and they'd binoculars on. their days off trying to catch people. having sex. [Music].

and if they did they'd caught you they'd. put you on a bus and they send you they. called it diesel therapy and they put. you on a bus non-stop for them for six. months. they go back to Phoenix and then it'd go. to Portland and it'll go to Chicago and. then they go to Miami and you come in at. a jail somewhere out in the country and. they'd hold you down with a hose. and give you a jumpsuit a few hours. later you was up with a sandwich and. some tepid coffee and on the road again. you didn't have a chance to write.

letters you didn't have a chance to. write court documents they called it. diesel therapy and those big bad men was. broke after six months they cried to get. off that bus damn so uh uh and also if. you got caught with having sex with. those women they'd send you a letter to. your family to my wife and say your. husband has been caught having sex with. another inmate they didn't say which oh. man or woman oh man so I I hate myself. anyhow my wife come to see me with the.

children we had to know it was a really. beautiful place. but it was sad some of those women have. babies and the government would take the. prison take it from me never know what. happened to them they give them up for. adoption so yeah that didn't last long. and and they took the men out of there. but that was that was the first prison I. went to. for two how many years I stayed there. about a year and then I I begged to go. to a Lompoc Camp because it was near. home. what a mistake I came out of a oh let me.

just tell you I got another story I had. a I had my roommate named Mike Nix. here's a strong young fella maybe 25. years old and he could take a big. telephone books that thick even with the. plastic on them and rip it down just. tear it apart like any of them. and you know what he didn't do much but. he was he was a little he was a soldier. in Germany. and he got some trouble and his. paperwork was all in a little Courthouse.

they're like like a little Shack and he. set it on fire so he got 25 years for. burning down Courthouse oh. oh but anyway the girls loved him and he. talked he wrote the Douglas letters back. and forth to him and he's slipping the. woman's women's dorm and service two or. three of them at the time. so one time he come in he'd come back. into selling his nostrils was blaming. and I mean he was wild they had locked. the the women's dorm while he was in. there and he knew somebody had told.

so there was Big Picture wonders there. there was like six feet by four and he. had kicked out out with a with a brick. working all and got out of there and. came back around and got an hour you. damn and uh is there one more story. about Mike. the last time I ever seen Mike I guess. we have breakfast together and he went. over slipping into the woman's dot I. knew he wasn't he worked in the kitchen. and a lot of girls worked in the kitchen. so they went into the freezer unit. and there was a table in there and they.

was. they was having fun. and so the woman guard I remember her. name was a really nice old lady she came. in and said get out Mike. in him and the girl just laughed and. shook their head they knew it was over. so he just get just getting on and so. she had to call back up and then guard. said that they took six of them to pull. that stallion off and said when he did. his pecker was just steaming that in. that cold out.

they put Mike on the bus and I never saw. him again what a wonderful guy. so that's the way my prison life started. off with John DeLorean and a bunch of. women. and then I came to the camp and what a. letdown oh my goodness gracious. so uh sagging bunks and guys farting and. jacking off and all night long all. around you it was a hundred people in a.

dorm and it was old. anyway they put me I got a job as a. cowboy well not Cowboy fixing fence out. on the Vandenberg Air Force Base. and uh it was just rifle rattlesnakes. and they would Doss the rattlesnakes and. I don't mind rattlesnakes at all and I'd. catch one in each hand make his mouth. open I'd run the guard with him. guess what I'm in the kitchen the next. day washing dishes. so I had fun there and I I.

uh after when you're one year short of. your release date you can get a furlough. from a federal prison camp. so if you go over a thousand miles or. over 500 miles I believe 500 miles you. get seven days and if you're local you. only get five days they give you travel. time both ways so I went to Georgia. and uh my wife and children was only on. the airplane on Delta and they held over. me and hugging me in the stewardess says.

what is going on here. and my wife said he just got out of. prison this morning and we're on. furlough and she went back and brought. us two big bottles of champagne. so when I was uh when I went back the. guys wanted a little Sunny televisions. those little things with a little one. inch square well you don't even remember. them but that was back in 1983. so I. brought back a sack of those and I got. caught coming back in with them bam I'm. shipped back to the prison in terminal. Island what a mess.

so I found up that time with that and I. got out of prison. after a little over two years. and I'm so happy to be home. in front of the television and I got it. in the kitchen in the morning and. there's Ronald Reagan's blue eyes. and he says we have absolute proof that. the Communist standing Easter government. of nicaraguas and the cocaine running. business. cocaine trafficking. and there's.

bearish plane the fat lady belly down on. the runway. and that oh [ __ ] Barry has done it again. I'd heard he'd switched over and gone. going with the police. you've heard that I'd heard somebody. told me that Barry may be working with. him I don't know who told me but. somewhere but I think so before we get. into that then because how did you guys. just did Communications just fall off. because he was working for you yes well. whenever I got arrested.

Barry went and got the lawyers and since. he sent a lawyer there from Baton Rouge. in and it robbed me and and then he got. uh Albert Krieger the best lawyer the. octane I've ever seen and and the whole. he did a whole crew and he had I believe. three of my airplanes and he he gave. Mario the money for him. 100 helped her whatever he could. and uh but then he I wasn't there and I. was just good out of the deal okay so he. just kept on flying. so he of course he knew the People by. then but it was too much together I.

couldn't keep it apart didn't even try. to but uh so but now he's he's crashed. his plane on the Nicaragua one Runway. there where we refuel. and the phone rang. and he said Roger I'm a I'm almost I got. to see you I'll come out tonight into. the French restaurant and I've forgotten. the name of it says I'll be there at. nine o'clock. all right Barry. so I went in at nine o'clock in the room.

not a very big restaurant and maybe. 10 or 15 tables all of them looked like. 30 40 years old leather skirts and. sports coats and blue jeans. berries leaned upside the wall at the. back he's gained weight and I woke up to. him and I say Barry. are you wired they said no I'm not Roger. I said well you just talk I'm gonna. listen and he said all right so I sat. down with him and he went to talk and he. said Roger I was uh. I was protected there and Mina you know.

about that. he said they all. when the [ __ ] hit the fan they all ran. left me old in the bag. and I was indicted in three. in Miami in in Florida Louisiana. and Arkansas facing three life sentences. and uh so I've told everything I've been. full Congress I've testified to. everything that was going on. but you're under my umbrella I told him.

I would not testify unless they. protected you so you're. you and I partners. he said you've got to come to Miami and. testify before grand jury. I said the old DEA agents he said every. one of them I said well bring your head. honcho over he put his hands between his. eyes over his eyes and the tears run. down between his hands he said I just. couldn't do it Roger I just couldn't do. it I'm so sorry I just couldn't do it I.

couldn't do life in prison. so that's what I do and bring you filler. over I felt sorry for him I mean I. really did so the guy came over lanky. fellow crop dust from Alabama I believe. Jake Jacobson he's the one that was in. that crashed airplane in Nicaragua. and uh he told me the same thing he said. well you can come tomorrow we had some. chavish Regal and got a little pie eyed. and I liked him said we was on different. sides. he said you can come tomorrow to Miami.

and. first class with with Mari or. I'll take you down and change. and the only place you're going to ever. see your family again as long as you. live is in a federal prison visiting. room I promise you. that's all I'll make sure to come first. class. so I did I marry and I went down to. Miami the next day and I went in to see. a lawyer I went to see Gould is his name. I didn't realize his partner had been. blown up and killed because he's. representing a snitch so but he's.

supposed to been the best at the time. and I went to see him and uh he just. says you know he says I'll represent you. for six hundred thousand dollars but I. don't talk to snitches. so I'm gonna snitch he said well that's. what you're talking about. I said no I'm not I'm just trying to get. watches he said listen man. being a station like being pregnant you. either are or are you not he was nasty. once you start talking if you don't tell. them everything you will receive a life. sentence because everything you've ever. done to everybody anything else they.

said about you will be used against you. he said you've got to go you've got to. tell everything day one to now. and so I left his office and I thought. damn that guy I went to see another and. he told me the same thing I said listen. man I've got to say something I've got. to he said you can't. if you're going to do it you've got to. do it all or you will be convicted and. get life. so I went to the uh. that afternoon I went to the courthouse.

and I can tell him I'd and so I spoke to. meet him like at three o'clock and I was. standing it was hot and I was standing. behind a pillar a big big marble pillars. at Miami Federal court and I was up the. stairs and here come the the three cars. they had about four of them would uh. machine gun pistols in the front and I. think two in the front and two on each. side of berry in the back they was. looking out this way and that way with. Barry as they come to the court. and bearish carpool right up stopped. beside me and I just stepped down that.

step to hit the top of that car wow. you should have said. they tore that car up contra. I should see how easy it would be. they didn't appreciate my humor. so I said listen I'm having trouble with. lawyers I'll get one tomorrow and Barry. said use mine use mine I said all right. give me your card so you give me the. card. and I had no intention of it so anyway I. just try and put it off so I think I. rested that night so anyway I uh I went.

on a festival restaurant there and coral. Gabe was my favorite restaurant at that. time still is I think it's closed now. and I was having dinner and of course. Barry knew it wasn't he came in with. Debbie and we had dessert together. and I said barely going to kill you. friend oh no missing another five years. in jail no chosen into them but there's. another I said Barry they gonna kill you. there's no way on Earth you're not going. to get killed. and I hug his neck I might have kissed.

him I'd barely gonna kill you and I took. Maureen the children we fled to Brazil. and we was down here about six months. and uh I got worried that Barry was dead. killed and uh I I I she had some tears. told Maureen Miriam and they cried and. we've I mean the biggest niche in the. world did and I'm facing a life sentence. but I'm still sorry they killed him. but he should have known you killed him. uh the guy that was in the that uh the.

guy that went flew up on the first load. with me with a machine gun pistol he's. the one killed him he's still in Angola. there was four of them one of them died. and three of them still left up there. they're doing life never gonna get out. Ronaldo was your name that ugly man I. mean he was ugly. I'm sure he still is ugly yeah. yeah I should kill Barry. one how long were you down in Brazil six. months you said that was a little over a. year over a year yeah.

and we had nice Brazilian passports and. and I left there and uh. went down to Argentina all the way to. the Box all the way to use why I was. looking looking for a home. use why Brazil would have been good but. then I had Brazilian passports I didn't. speak Portuguese I was afraid if I made. investments in soybeans and all that. somebody come take it away from me yeah. so you still have all your money and. yeah so pardon she said I moved some of. it out by then but that guy done stole. it almost everything most a lot of the.

stuff is gone how much money did you. have left at this point. about four million dollars four million. yeah so you want from. were you at the height already did you. go from 60 million to four million to. four yeah [ __ ] are we talking about 60. million because I had invested all kind. of money in real estate deals and. hydroelectric plant and oh well all that. just got wiped away when that guy got. killed. and so and it just got taken by the.

government and bankers and lawyers. everybody touched me stole it they just. just wholesale you go to prison and your. money's out there it ain't that when you. get out yeah not not unless you bad. felon won't kill somebody. so it was just like all right you catch. 22 there I was. how is Maury doing down there Mark did. fine she just kind of let it she didn't. get involved and she stayed away from it.

I didn't I didn't tell her much and just. she just thought I was bulletproof and I. said I'm gonna go do it I'd go and come. back that night or the next day and did. she ever get frustrated with all the. moving around and well we didn't move so. much you see until then now now when we. on the Cena the government's done kicked. in our door and held her hostage all day. long and took her home from us twice so. she's not too happy with him either yeah. and so now see I've never been caught. with a with a with a dollar an or not.

one gram of marijuana. and I get 35 years. just because everybody got caught. sometimes five six seven years later. pointing their finger at me. Roger did it Roger did it until they. built a case against you well you don't. have to and I like I told they had me. for bringing that money to the Grand. Cayman Island I said some of that money. I never even touched it the lawyer said. you don't have to fondle it to be guilty. so. it's like anything else they don't have.

to catch you shooting somebody for. murder two people say you they saw you. do it you gone yeah so it's the same. thing with marijuana they say you say. you did it and and I plead guilty to a. liar there's a guy that not only why he. told him he said he drove by my house. and so 400 pounds of marijuana in my. garage you can't even see the garage. from my house from the highway and I've. never had anything in my house and never. not even an ounce. of marijuana at my house from property. uh no I don't use it and don't.

I just don't have anything to do with. except flies yeah so that's where she. was uh I will tell you a little Murray. Murray did get involved in the marijuana. business one time. didn't you tell that. uh. I flew into a. little airport over there over the. mountain Santa Anais and I landed in the. unloader was supposed to be there to to. uh to unload me and it was about.

Christmas time. and uh I I had a tone of marijuana in. the airplane and. so I got out and there's nobody there. nobody the little Runway out way out in. the country and I was so angry with him. what in the world. what am I going to do with this load to. go with the truck supposed to be here. so I think I had twenty one hundred. dollar bills in my pocket but I didn't. have a dime to use that phone. so I had to walk to Solvang it's about. five miles away and I took off walking.

and I got to got to solving and I I. called Mario I said Murray come over. here just as quick as you can pick me up. and come come sign some kind of little. truck or something so we moved this. stuff. so she bought a little El Camino truck. with a little low body from a friend of. mine and she came over and we went back. out. and the the plane was empty. oh man this unloader Wild Bill don't.

stole that load. so we moved back home I didn't know what. had happened I thought they might have. gotten it but it's about two o'clock hey. I got a nice Christmas present Roger. Dunn I thought you rascal you and uh he. said we saw we saw you landed eight. o'clock we thought it was an airliner. had that big lights on that plane we. didn't know your plane was so big so we. went to McDonald's to get something to. eat we come back man the president was. there and we left me hanging for about. six hours. so anyway the next morning we took that.

little truck and went back over there. just at daylight. and uh I got in there I said well make. just a minute Marty let me see let me. sweep this thing out because I know they. didn't so I got in there with sweeping. playing I had linoleum all in the planes. right up to the windows so the seeds. couldn't get in there they convicted you. on a seat or two so mine was I had a. professionally linoleum from one end to. the other. I get up in there there was a little. spot there where the stewardess make. coffee and stuff and under that was a. big bag of Sticky Buds maybe 60 or 70.

pounds oh the idiots oh my goodness. gracious I'd be convicted like this. though with the same load. so I drugged that thing up and I tried. to put it in that truck and it wouldn't. go in so I throwed it up in the back I. got to get out of here. and I said Mario just go get rid of she. said I can't live it I said just let the. tailgate down and and back up and slam. on breaks I don't care get rid of it. so she took off with it and I took off. and I flew across and I landed at the.

airport and I had a hanger and I I went. in the hangar so she came up and I said. you get rid of it all right she said yes. but you're not gonna like this I said. what she said. heard it it went in water. I said honey there's nothing but a. desert between here and Satan is how did. you get it in water she said I don't. know I did what you said I backed up to. a cliff and I put on the brakes and it. went a long way down and I heard it hit. water.

[Laughter]. [Music]. go see what you're talking about. she had backed up to a cliff six or. seven hundred feet high and slammed on. brakes and that thing went down through. the poison oak and poison ivy they hit a. little stream down and bounced out. I had to get roped and everything else. because I always laughed about her and. her one marijuana trip so she did do it. once I'll be damned yeah. well back to Brazil all right so you're.

down there for about a year. yes and then we went on down to. Argentina and I didn't find it there and. Mari said if I if I die in this place. Roger please don't leave my bones here. I was out there looking at a place to. grow soybeans so I said all right so we. bought a ticket and went to Amsterdam. and we stayed in Amsterdam for a while. and then uh then went to the south of. France and we lived there for a year. and had a nice time and then my friend.

Jerry the one that used to fly for me he. came over and uh. he said let's go to I want you to. introduce you to somebody I want you to. introduce you to Howard marks. so we went to Mallorca Spain. and I met Howard marks which was my. Waterloo. biggest mistake I ever did in my life. was meeting that man. well he knew everybody he'd been. traveled around the world and he had a. guy named John Denby that had walked.

across India and China and that guy knew. a lot of people and Howard was using him. and so he hooked us up to. uh uh I went to Pakistan and again. hooked us up with a 10-ton load out of. there and I think I put a million. dollars or so up and we hauled the load. and it was so bad stuff it was too much. Yak fat in it it wouldn't stay lit. couldn't hardly sell it. so just one one Buckle after another.

with him. so I. I don't know how. well let's take a quick break before. hey guys let me tell you about this. subscription service that I've been. working real hard on called vigilance. Elite. patreon basically on patreon we have it. broken up into three different tiers. we've got tier one tier two and tier.

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interactive no matter what tier you. choose the support is greatly. appreciated and it is the only thing. that makes this show drive on so thank. you for all the support. see you on patreon. all right Roger we're back from the. break. you're starting to get involved with. Howard. oh boy.

Howard my Waterloo that's right. so uh I was living in the south of. France there uh in biot. and uh. my friend Jerry come over and bet me we. had a nice time reunion he's been the. one that had been flying the same as. Berry and he came over with his. Entourage and uh. so my daughter Mario was there and she. wanted to fly over they had chartered a. private jet was flying around the world. and she flew with them to my orcas I.

know yeah to Mallorca Spain well it was. M Reeves. so the DEA thought they had a lead on me. and that I was living in France because. the Emery's Maury Reeves got on the. plane with Jerry Wills to fly to. Mallorca. it caused me to leave France. anyway we went over and met Howard and I. liked Howard all right he had a lot of. contacts and so uh. he uh.

said that he could get all kinds of. stuff out of. Pakistan so anyhow I was the one wound. up buying uh paying for I gave him a. million dollars to pay. for uh. a load of. yeah it was a million or two million I. yeah a million a million dollars I gave. him to put down on another load of. hashish. so. uh. they pulled a big scam on us we had to.

boot over into Maldives it was a hundred. and I believe 108 foot Alaska King Crab. crabber almost knew that thing was nice. and uh so they went over there Howard. and his guys Dobie and Hobie and they. put a bug on it. and he says all right we have. information there with the CIA with a. DEA and wears a bug on that boat and for. 250 000 we'll tell you where it is. I said [ __ ] I ain't paying you.

nothing to find out when I can find a. bug in a few minutes if it's on there oh. sorry we've already took it off here it. is. and I've given them 250 000 a year. dollars. and that's when I about Come Undone with. Jerry I said yeah I ain't putting up. that's just a scam so he took me out in. the hall said Roger this deal is worth. 20 30 million dollars don't mess it up. for 250 000 they already got the money. anyway. so anyway we we did the uh food around. there and it says oh.

malix can't get the hash and this and. the other so but I got a deal for you in. Thailand. Thailand Thailand we can get the. military allowed to 200 miles off the. coast but we need two two million. dollars the military is going to load. you yeah with what marijuana so I went. over to Thailand and I gave the other. million dollars now he's already got one. but we can't transfer it and it's. another. so uh. he uh.

the boat came and they literally just. went I went and looked at marijuana it. was good stuff it was uh half of it was. in nitrogen seals. uh so it stays fresh but I understand it. deteriorates pretty quick after you open. it but when you open it's just like it. come out of the field. anyway we put the uh 17 tons on the on. the boat and Military went out and. loaded it with a military Cruiser and uh. the boys took it on across the Pacific. right quick so Howard wanted me to stay. says Roger I got a guy named rummy here.

and he's got a. 85-foot wooden sailboat and he wants to. get loaded and when you put some money. on it that's an hour if I put any more. money. I would uh. I would uh put in a Long Boat. oh just another but anyhow I flew him. back to Mallorca we'd done moved there. near hour to a few miles 20 30 miles. away but uh Howard was 10 days later and. he stayed over and loaded that old boat. with a wooden boat got got it somehow.

and the unloaders unloaded our boat and. was selling it they said don't take it. to United States just sell it up here we. can get 1400 a pound. well that's about 50 million dollars for. that load so my friend Jerry and said. Ryan says okay let's do it so they're. staying in a. they're standing a nice. condo or hotel a hotel and uh. money's coming in two or three million. dollars a day every two or three days. they've really just uh.

storage place and they got. six seven eight million dollars in there. and it's got this little tag in Ron's. pocket and they got three million. dollars in the hotel room and two or. three million dollars downstairs in his. car. and. uh Howard sins John Denby his old friend. that's hooked up with the Kray Brothers. out of out of England and he lands in my. in in Vancouver and of course with him. comes a Telex to the mountie police this. is a notorious criminals entering your.

country so they followed him and he. happened just out of chance to go to the. same. hotel that Ron and Jerry are staying in. no way. and they hug in the library click click. click click all the pictures on it now. then they're watching Jerry and Ron. so they all eat and drink and have a. good time and they got people with. pointy shoes and plaid pants falling. around holding hands and taking pictures. of them so now the old wooden sailboat.

comes in and the same unloaders that. have unloaded us and selling are. unloading. and. they swarm on them there's a DEA agent. on that old wooden sailboat. I don't know if Romney's a de Ager there. is one of his crew is but uh they arrest. him all so they and then. put them all in jail and everybody's out. the next day all the Canadians for a. hundred thousand dollar bond for. marijuana. but Ron Jerry and Denby can't get out.

so they keep them in jail six months and. the lawyer comes in for the unloader. said everything's going fine we're. selling it we're doing good. so when after six months Jerry and Ron. get deported to the United States and. Denby gets sent back to England. well they my boys wanted to see about. the money and they says [ __ ] you we. don't owe you nothing you brought the. heat on us. 50 million dollars zip gone. wow so Jerry hires a guy from this Assad.

to go and collect it. so the Guy meets him into Belvedere. Wilshire Hotel. he said yeah I'll get it for 250 000 how. do you get in contact with that I don't. know so anyhow they got in touch with. somebody they're going to collect that. money that guy didn't stay there he. stayed there with the girls for four. days called Jerry come in get your money. I got it. so Jerry goes down there and he comes. and sits down he puts a Glock to his. head he said they don't owe you anything. if you don't give me 250 000 I'm fixing.

to blow your rings all over this hotel. room Jerry cold front. bring me 250 000 quick. now he's lost fifty thousand he's lost. 250 000 on top of it he said I don't. want nothing to do with it goodbye. damn so. anyway that's gone but anyhow in the. meantime I've been arrested uh they're. you know in Spain I've been extraded up. to Germany and I'm serving time in the. German prison.

yes that was that was another load I get. them mixed up with Howard but anyhow. Howard owed me the 2 million for the. to hold that load out of Morocco and he. wouldn't pay me and he turned me in so. that was my my time with Howard he. turned you in he turned me in complete. after all that he didn't want to pay he. knew he was fixing to go down. so he didn't want to pay. and uh turn me. so where did the yacht come in the 130.

foot yacht with one. thousand okay I'm up in uh Germany and. in 1990 I I'd Escape I tell you I did I. tell you to tell you about getting out. the German the Spanish Court jumping on. the car I told you that you did and then. I went up to Germany did I tell you. about escaping from that prison. you didn't all right. so I believe it was 1990 that I'm in. Lubeck Penitentiary a blue back prison.

Fortress with gun Towers all around it. they had the red Brigade and the people. in there from old kind of bad folks. and they put me in there with that. and after one year I escaped from that. prison I went Between the Bars. you did mention this got all of it that. woman tried to run that over me okay uh. I think you had mentioned you went to. prison in Spain too. yes I spent 17 months there we did not. talk about Spain.

what must you talk about yeah I did some. stories to talk about uh since I I. jumped on the car and got away they they. had me naked in Mallorca in the in the. cell day and night they wouldn't let me. have any clothes they thought if I. didn't have any clothes I could Escape. that's when they put everywhere I went. they put my handcuffed over my shoulder. anyway I got up to German and. um they sent me to Madrid. and a rather picturesque.

they put me in there was a a modern. prison there I mean it was Modern and. they had modulus and each module had 50. prisoners in it and it was nothing much. to do there was a thing about small. tennis court and uh a spot there where. you could buy coffee and cupcakes and. you could buy three kilos of food a week. and they'd bring it in and you had. prison money and they was about five or. six of us had a lot of money and we'd. give the other poor people the money to. buy theirs and we just had copious.

amounts of food salmon and jams and. salads and stuff come in yeah I know I. guess they brought it in two or three. times I forgot but we had a big table. out there where everybody could just eat. all they wanted to and one of us to pay. for the coffee one day and the little. cakes that there was a cake fighter. there from turkey and he could keep. ordering that which little store. and they thought that the the Domino. chips down and they just made a lot of. rackets and if they played uh back yam. enough which I played backgammon they.

wanted a wooden box so it could make a. lot of noise with a dice roll they. wouldn't they wouldn't roll it on felt. so that was a church I was in with. anyhow wonderful people. assessment 17 months there in that place. but I was bored and at the end of it uh. at the end of that place was a little. little wall about knee-high and on top. of it had a chain link fence just to. keep you in that beyond that was a big. wall with catwalks on it and towers and. guards up there with guns.

but uh and then they had like a moat. with all electronic wires they I don't. think no way in the world get out of. that thing so it was it was impenetrable. so but anyway there was a little place. there maybe 10 feet across they were. dirt. and the boys are they got little cups. for your coffee and they'd poke them. through that chain link fence and I. guess they were thousands of them there. and I decided I wanted a garden. I don't have nothing else to do let me. make a garden I'm a country boy so I. took a mop panel and I made it sharp and. I stuck it through those cups one at a.

time and brought it back up and squashed. it through the fence and brought it back. until I cleaned the spot about four feet. wide. and then it was hard hard Red Dirt. rather hard and I guess it was all wet. but the other end of the place was a. spigot and I got a five gallon bucket. and I couldn't and I poured. for a week I poured water on it till I. got that thirsty soil. softened up and then I made like a spade. on the end of a big heavy mop panel and.

stuck it through there and I pushed it. down in the soil about six or eight. inches and turned it like a turning plow. until I did it all the way across I. guess I get maybe not less 60 or 70 feet. across there. and then out of the vegetables that we. bought from the grocery store I put. little jar lids and put dirt in them in. my windowsill and I got plants started. and then I would take the I would dig a. little hole on the over there and I'd. put that little plant on top of the end. of the stick with some dirt on it with a.

little bit of mud and I'd put it in that. hole and break the dirt back around with. the stick I'm working through a fence. like trying to build a ship in the. bottle yeah and then the the mob panels. come with a plastic tube on them and I. take that and take the cup and pour the. water around my plant. and so I got all kinds of plants growing. on the other side of the fence water. metals and cantaloupes and zucchinis and. just about anything that you can imagine. that we could order in the grocery store. I got the seed and planted it.

well those plants grew and I would bring. the cut all the vines off but one and. bring it to the fence and weave it in. that chain link fence until I had big. watermelons hanging in cantaloupes and. eggplants and gouache and zucchinis and. just tomatoes and all kind of bell. peppers I just had a garden that was. just unbelievably beautiful hanging in. that whole fence was covered with it. like a mosaic of of fruit and the warden. came and stood in front of it it was a. newspaper article about it there was a.

newspaper article about that Garden into. prison so of course they didn't let me. stand in front of it but. I had to almost fight to keep the other. prisoners from they laughed at me for a. while and then they wanted to pour water. on it and I think who drowned it get out. of here this is my God. so that was in Spain and it's pretty. nice there it really was. you want to get into the fishing out.

into which one the 130 footer with a. thousand times I got out of I got out of. so I after I escaped from the German. prison. I uh I went back to South America. to um to see about collecting that three. and a half million dollars that Joe owes. me. well he wouldn't see me. and uh. my friend. help keep me from getting there I. believe so anyway I left that so but. anyhow uh help keep keeping it from.

getting wet don't chill we're getting to. the money he knows something they all. know something but they're not telling. me what's happening they don't. divided that money up. so uh I uh Hebrew said let me introduce. you to somebody so introduce me to. somebody and the guy said that he had. paid me 20 million dollars to take a. ship load of. cocaine to Australia. I said well sign me up here I am a. fugitive. so I.

I. where do you put 20 million dollars when. you're a fugitive. I don't know I was going to get it in. Australia I figured it out after I got. it but it better not having it I'd have. got I would have got it probably and put. it on a boat or sailboat and probably. went to Dubai right up the Indian Ocean. Why Dubai I think that they have uh less. DEA U.S influence than some other place. I've been afraid to go into India they. would probably just taken it yeah but I.

think Dubai would have probably you. could have hid the money on a boat and. taken it off and put it in the bank I. think that's what I was thinking about. what's another. safe haven for. when they're they're well known for the. their Banks not being influenced I think. all the heroin went out of Afghanistan. and all that Pakistan goes Aaron's. laundered yeah that's uh Miss Haven. but that that wasn't that when the. problem was getting it so anyway they uh.

uh they they bought a. um. uh offshore supply vessel I found it. there in Louisiana and uh those things. are worth 12 million dollars. but when they get 40 years old about 39. years old at 40 years old to the day. they can't get insurance to go anymore. so these these Exxon and all these. different places own these oil wells and. these ships have to be insured to go out. there these they're all offshore Supply. vessels and I think this one had been in.

the North Sea and it had it was like. five or six stories high and had all the. uh oil firefighting equipment on it and. I mean that things that fear was. palatial it was nice you could eat. dinner off the off the floor in the uh. engine room it was sparkling. and uh so I bought that thing for three. hundred thousand dollars it's crisis. kept crap wow at that time. and I took that thing and I went and uh. went to uh.

Cape Verde Islands and uh put some more. fuel on and I'm supposed to load up the. cocaine there and I went back out then I. had to go. back A Thousand Miles towards Columbia. and to meet the boat and finally they. didn't show up have me going around. under the satellite for four or five. days three days and then finally it came. they put a a thousand kilos a ton of. cocaine on it just threw it overboard. now he had doubt on it and uh there was. one Colombian got on there with us and. then had me and another fella from.

Georgia then uh and so we took it and I. went around uh what what is a thousand. tons of cocaine look like a thousand. kilos 2 200 pounds okay okay now kilo. used to you'd be real fluffy and big but. now it's made with um. uh they do something with. uh microwave ovens in those places. you'll see two or three hundred. microwave ovens and they cook it in. there so it's oily and dense so it's. almost as dense as water it'll almost.

sink so one cubic meter. 39.4 inches cubed is one ton. so this much and this much is a ton okay. and so this stuff will just float just. above the water so it's a little less so. you might say 50 inches cubed okay. that's how that's how big it is yeah I. eat it on the boat made it in a fuel. tank and I took it and went around went. way down we went down uh. on the Brazilian side of the Atlantic. Ocean because in the southern hemisphere.

the oceans like in your toilet they. turned counterclockwise and in the. northern hemisphere it clearance. clockwise so the oceans run that way. and that on the equator is zero you got. a little boy over on the Equatorial. Hotel in Kenya it burned down but he's. there and he'll put a he got a five. gallon bucket with a funnel and he said. come over here and he pours in jug of. water and he goes and he goes over here. and he goes it and it goes straight down. he said no that's the Equator so that's. a sensitive that that force is.

that's interesting any way I've followed. in the current down and then we went way. south of Cape Town. of the Cape of Good Hope and went down. and I kept going south I wanted to stay. out of any traffic and so no boats or. ships ever saw me after I left the. traffic off of the uh coming out of. South America. there's a lot of traffic that I crossed. got down there we didn't see anything. and uh uh.

one morning I woke up and uh. the swells was just monstrous I can't. tell you how big they were I fished in. Alaska they were babies compared to this. they were coming off of that Antarctica. swirls around there. I don't think Oswell gets 100 feet but. they look taller than that it looked. like they were just falling down on the. back of the boat and I remember the on. the old sailing ships that they had to. put a blind up there so that the man on. the wheel wouldn't run and they put two. men on there it's it's phenomenal look.

see that much water. standing up behind you and the boat. would come up and when it comes to the. top the two big propellers. would come out of the water and that. boat would surf down that wave wow and. it'd go like 25 knots on the GPS. and the nose would stick under about a. third of the boat and it would just stay. under there for a while and then flew it. slowly come up and that water would rush. off the back of it and I thought I. thought that was nerve-wracking all.

right this boat might not be made for. that it was made for the Caribbean so I. turned and and uh and went North out of. there I was going to go under Melbourne. but then I saw the guys place it to. Columbia and said chosen from had a lot. of shows and he just looked at it from. the up from the sea without and I said. it will never do if it's if it's any. wind or any southern wind which it may. be we could never get a shower there so. I uh I chose a plot spot up uh. oh near sharks Bay in Western Australia.

about halfway up or up the side of it. and uh. I I went and uh. we came in in two o'clock at night and I. saw an airplane up there blinking's too. slow no. I said all right we've been watched. and uh. so I um I want to show what put the put. the cocaine I had two 20-foot rubber. Zodiacs and I left the big boat out. there with my friend Joel on it and me.

and the Colombian went to show her. and uh that guy talked to Big talk but. uh. I put it in and so I told him to get in. the other one no no no minor I can't. drive. so I had to hook them together one. behind the other track them and we went. in and there was a surf and it was Pitch. Black and went over that Surf and went. inside like a lagoon and then no you. couldn't see it I tried to come back. over that Surf and finally got over to. the side and uh one of the. zodiac busted we got out and I got to.

carrying the cocaine up up a cliff up. the high so we could see it and it was. dark it was raining couldn't see. anything what we were doing. so finally I got it up there and my. sandal got tore off and the whole bottom. of my foot got torn off I had a new new. skin wrapped in the bottom of my foot. so uh. got that stuff in a hole and then I uh I. went to go back to get the boat. and to tell you'll get Joel. so one of the zodiacs had busted and.

we're tied up there. and the other one had drifted away. and it had the motor on it how what in. the world am I going to do so I jumped. in to swim now this place is called. Shark space got thousands and thousands. of sharks out there it's just a a. bayonet where they come in the hole so. as I'm swimming. the boat just drifting just a little bit. faster than I can swim. oh boy. this never turns out well no it knocks.

that thing going away from me and a fin. cuts of water sticking out about that. high get the hell out of here are you. serious good around me well I draw my. feet up and I pray Lord don't let it. happen now. I don't but oh I don't even hardly. breathe I'm trying to stay up like this. and he cuts his fan around closer. then that sucker comes up. and he blows I like to laugh my head off. there's a dolphin look at that.

I didn't have any problem catching that. boot I don't know. give you a little uh extra money. so we took it out there and I I went in. and uh. got me a hot shower. and they always had some Cups Coffee on. the cup and I took a cup then I'd cut a. big hole down the side of the ship and. reversed all the pumps and then I got in. the uh.

and going 12 knots I couldn't even untie. it I had to had to cut the uh Cut the. Rope and then I nearly Dove over when it. stopped. and I went back in. and uh. uh we covered up the cocaine real good. with blankets and and rocks and brush. and it rained and we got under kind of a. rock some fishermen at daylight came and. they would they had a cable that they. must have put out and they were catching. these great big red snappers about 20. pounds and he was pulling them up the.

cable they put something to go over. their mouth once they catch them and. that that brings them up and they was. taking them off one after the other dang. what fishing and then it was down down. down you sons and [ __ ] they dumped me. in the head picked me up by my groin. treated me real bad and there were three. of them they were called the TRG and. they were stealing that cocaine like. crazy they was throwing it back in the. surf where it was rushing back around I. said I hope they get it all had a gun to. my head don't you look don't you look. damn I did after a while I saw the.

federal police coming. so uh. they arrested US and. took us took us down to Geraldton and. stayed there for a day and then they put. us on a Brink stroke and and took us to. a prison in in Perth and uh I got 25. years. and uh then I testified that Joel who I. put the boat in his name didn't know. that it was cocaine and he he thought. was going to sell the boat in Indonesia.

and when the cocaine come he couldn't. swim a thousand miles. so he after three trials he won his. trial and he went home and they appealed. my sentence and Raised Me to Life. so instead I was going to do it if I. testified so anyway I uh I got a life. sentence for testifying and. um but they put it 18 years as a minimum. before I could apply for parole. so that whenever they found out that I'd. escaped from all those prisons before. and police.

they come and arrested me into prison. and put me in what they call the shoe. and I was in the shoe there and there. was a there was only three other ones. when I went in there. and uh that was the worst of the worst I. mean it was like the Silence of the. Lambs really just exactly like that. and they had to one-way mirrors that. they looked at you five or six cars and. we cooked our own food. the camera shelter came at six o'clock. in the morning open the sale with about. six of them with trunches they was ready.

to beat you to death he moved and uh. and it was quite boring in that place I. stayed in there just a little over a. year. but there was a computer in there. and after I got life. I thought you know my my children. grandchildren great grand they never. gonna know who I am and some of these. stories I believe I'll tell them about. when grandma bought me a little pony. and I started I didn't know how to how. to turn that computer on but I could. type and it didn't have a program on it.

it just had a thing called paint brush. and so I I got to typing and I painted. over a print over a million words before. I quit and so then when I got out of. there I got a computer and got it got to. a computer and it took me I reckon a. year to figure out what I'd wrote it was. all red yellow and green because I. didn't worry about spelling her. punctuation I just wanted to tell the. story so I wrote the book there called. Smuggler while I was in prison do you. have any idea how long it took you to. type a million words about three or four.

months. that's the whole idea didn't have. nothing to do did you like doing it yeah. because some of the times and it's a lot. of the stuff that I put I just cried and. the tears come out I think it did me. like something good to remember my. Grandpa Grandma and my daddy and the. stuff the ghost stories that told around. the fire and all that sort of stuff as a. youth it's like therapy yes it did good. and that took all that out because. nobody wants to read about my grandpa. but this digestive stuff was stuff that. I did in it yeah in the truth so that's.

what I did and it was it was enjoyable. and then of course I couldn't send the. book out after I got it all typed. together and uh they allowed me to buy a. computer for myself and Australia was. prison was was more Progressive than. here much more so. I had the computer and there was a. skydiver in there and he had a illegal. telephone so he said oh you want to get. that to your wife what's her email. number. click and in one second Mari had that.

book in the United States that she. published it for me while I was in. prison that's amazing yeah. when did you get out of prison I got it. two years ago two years ago I came back. from Australia. uh I was coming up on the 18th year and. nobody hard to get. uh parole on their first. uh you're eligible they ain't anybody no. matter what they say okay you got life. you got 50 years or 30 years before you. can apply for parole and most everybody. come back in five years you're not.

rehabilitated. so I wrote my neighbor Mr Jimmy Carter. a litter and I asked him uh Mr Carter I. mean I was your neighbor remember. backyard. and uh with Jimmy Carter was your. neighbor was your neighbor was a. neighbor yes so I had a farm there right. right close to close to his so uh he. wrote a letter to the Attorney General. of Australia and said if appropriate I. would ask that you will uh hope that you.

will consider for parole my neighbor and. friend Roger Reeves. and so things started rolling and I got. paroled. so they put me on a plane. and on the day 18 years I got out of. course I hadn't gotten any trouble. and I I got uh flew back laughing across. the Pacific and with three Marshals from. Australia and I think they knew what was. going on but anyhow the plane emptied. and I stepped out.

and five little Mexican-American. border patrol guys grabbed me hard slam. me into the wire bruised my face kicked. my feet apart. handcuff me. two leg irons on me put the handcuffs on. me so hard there's one ugly woman there. saying eyes. eyes ahead. I said if I had a Bulldog look like you. I'd shave his ass and teach him to walk. backwards. [Laughter].

in the Chucky there in Los Angeles. and I couldn't get out of there I said. I've been in an open prison for. 16 of the last years I said what in the. world and the lieutenant says I can't. move you man. so one day the little window slid open a. nice looking man standing there said my. name is uh assistant Warden short. it says we saw your National Geographic.

documentary and it does me pleasure to. keep you in isolation click I never. could get out of there I stayed in. isolation for months. just a National Geographic did a did a. thing and I was part of it down in. Australia Australia's hardest prison. and I kind of bragged about cutting a. hole in that place when it ran you. said that that cost me yeah so they the. pro board supposed to give you it was.

for parole for marijuana third 43 years. ago and by law they're supposed to give. you a hearing within 90 days they never. gave me one. I went to Oklahoma City to get a hearing. and I got there about 3 30 4 o'clock and. a nice lady says oh you're Reeves there. was a man from Washington here and uh he. waited and he said that he'd come back. next year. so there I got out on the floor but I. had to count I had to register every two. hours did I'd go back into shoot when I.

was in Oklahoma. and so I had to come in and sign a thing. on the floor right where I was I was on. like the 18th floor or whatever. uh. so I guess they thought I was gonna. escape again after though but anyway she. said would you like to have me to ask. for parole on the record I said I never. asked for it I said please do. so it's the next day she's come said yes. I have your parole here you get out in. 90 days from today and they're sending. you to terminal Island California for. the rest of your time.

so they took me back and took me a week. or two to get back there with a mess. getting back. uh when I was in. there's so much corruption let me just. tell you how much corruption is in our. government it will make you sick. from everybody and it is when I was in. Long Park Penitentiary I watched them. move dirt. about the 10th of April they got big. bulldozers and stuff they move in dirt. from one place to the other.

back and forth. somebody because they want to use up all. the money that they have yeah so we can. ask for more next year I sold out my own. eyes. then on this I would be I saw a nice. young fellow from down in south Georgia. where I'm from I said where are you. going so I got caught with two grams of. methamphetamine I got to go to Los. Angeles for psychiatric evaluation I've. been here three months waiting for a. plane. then I meet another fella he said well. I'm from Long Beach and what about you.

he said I got caught with two grams of. methamphetamine I got to go to Atlanta. Georgia for psychiatric evaluation. I believe that fed air has 23 planes. flying prisoners around the United. States. it's Canadian company. you better not ask anything about that. that's interesting. it's like we had uh. it's a Canadian company I heard it was I. don't know I never looked into it really. but I believe it is but anyhow you know.

who it's owned by it's owned by all. politicians for sure in the morning for. the prisons it's their retirement it's. the same thing with these uh you know. these places that make things in prison. you better not ask about them you'll be. putting shootings transferred. so. they make office Furnitures for our. cables for space stuff all kind of stuff. in prisons are made by prison labor. dollar an hour yeah. so that was uh I don't where was I now.

in fact I regressed it to the you were. getting transferred from Oklahoma yes I. got back there and and after a year. after uh three months they let me out. right and oh they put me in there they I. gotta come out of the Chow hole and the. guy said he had done uh. cut my hair he said when you come out. the chow hall turn to the right well I. did and the guy said walk between us and. he went up like boof and I said I bet I. could outrun you and they tackled me to.

the ground. [Music]. put me into choke in the shoe it. wouldn't let me out because I'd. threatened to assault an officer. so I'm in there and I don't particularly. want to get out they got covered coming. out there. and uh. I'll tell you one one little story just. about uh. they come re got somebody for you so. they put somebody in there with me and.

he was a young fella from El Salvador. and uh. his name he wouldn't be called Pablo. I think he's old Pablo Escobar anyway he. had he was a transient Farm worker that. had been five times caught. and uh he told me that he was from a. pineapple had a home in a pineapple. plantation down there. and they had a wife and children but he. was a delish knife in the drawer but uh. he had some kind of a lot of them have.

psychiatric problems. and he I guess sleeping on the ground in. the fields here in Washington the United. States said he made 200 a day and. shipped it all home. and he laid down in a bug got in his ear. and they had to cut his whole ear out to. take that to get that bug or whatever. infection that was out of there and they. put that in so he was still sick from. the Stitches. and they gave him medicine and sometimes. he would just turn completely red just. bright red and he just ring his hands. and walked back and forth.

I said Pablo sit down here how long has. it been since anybody touched you. he didn't know and I should just sit. down there and I just sat down and went. to massage his shoulders and he was oh. oh oh just pitiful what people in there. without love without touching without no. nobody nobody for years yeah and tell me. you see the color just come back to him. oh thank you Senor thank you and it just. it's the old mental coming to him and uh.

so I had a lock for my. little little container there and it had. a three ways like 8 12 14. and so he. wanted to play with it and so I said. okay now come on do it do it back eight. and I'd tell him don't pop open he'd be. so smart. and but then he wanted to write it down. I said no you can remember three things. so he worked at that thing and worked at. it with him and helped him when that. thing popped open you should have seen.

the smile on his face. for the rest of time I was in there. that's what he did open and close that. lock. so uh. we wouldn't go out uh he was very shy we. had to hang towels up for him to go to. the bathroom or to take a bath but. neither one of us wanted to go out with. those guards was all covered up in cloth. Every Which Way and it was just like. dead men walking out there there was. eight people died in there with us. really yeah the most of any place in in.

the United States was right there in. terminal Island and that we was in a in. a sick Ward and in the clock down. so there was a little. a little sink there with a a bow she had. to push water hard real hard to get a. little stream of water well we put a. straw in it. and now you can put a sock under it. when we watch our show don't come in. here just put the food through the. through the slot so we stayed in there.

for the last six weeks and then they. they came and bottomed me all up. put me out on the street and I got a. ride home. I go right home I come home and uh how. long. all at once were in prison eight uh 19. years that time when I got out that day. so I I got home. and uh. Mari was there waiting. and I had on the prison clothes. and of course uh.

I just first thing I wanted to do was. just throw those things in the trash and. uh. I uh I went in and just showered and. scrubbed myself and shampooed. shaved and cleaned up and I went to the. closet and all my clothes from 40 years. ago and older once I got around there 50. years old. was hanging in the closet she had washed. and ironed and so starts just each one. of them was hanging there so pretty it. might made me cry and my shoe she had. shined them shiny and I put those.

clothes on and I put those shoes on and. I took a step in the soles of the shoes. stayed on the floor all the strings had. rotted. wow so I got the shoes with no shoes. oh man and I went to the table and I sit. down there's an oak table that over 50. years ago that I with a carving knife I. cleaned all the clothes and took the. paint off of and stripped it there was a. I was I shouldn't made a meal for me and. the placemats and the plates same plates.

that I'd left 40 years ago. same pictures on the wall there's a. small apartment now but we used to have. a mansion to live in but it was still. the same she had saved it for me just. like that. and I just sit there and cry I cry to. tell about it right now. he just like it took me three days I. wouldn't I still won't look at. photographs of her and her children. growing up you will not I won't I don't. do it makes me cry. there she was 40 50 60 and 70. I wasn't. there for none of those birthdays.

sometimes I was out on the skate for a. few years and she had joined me but it. was like I wasn't home. damn she raised those children and they. did well. so. whatever she wants I do now. yeah good for you yeah. that's that's. one hell of a woman yep that's amazing. so only three other play people in all. the years I was in prison that their.

wife stayed with them when they got life. sentences. you know it stayed a long time. I said what'd you tell him she said I. just told them I'm not available. a joke and said I thought for sure I was. going to have to shoot a husband-in-law. when I got home. but he wasn't one there thank goodness. do you regret anything of course I. regret it yeah terribly yes I wasted. half of my life in a cage yeah couldn't.

you I mean yeah I had. 10 years of fun and. 33 years of prison my goodness just not. working and I looked back on my life I. was I was uh immature. I had good sense but I was just immature. and I trusted people. and I went through school with a lark I. didn't High School I didn't study I. didn't have to study and went off to. college and it was like irk I don't want. to do this but if I had to train myself.

from Young to studied. my my middle daughter's a doctor she. just went through it skipped right. through medical school and I could have. done the same thing I kind of wanted to. I signed up for it but I didn't have the. stick ability to sit down and study that. stuff. and uh I wish I had I'd love to help. people all over the world and just yes I. would I would have loved to done. something like that what in the world I. want to do this for yeah Farm I want to. a farm in the group I couldn't cotton.

corn that's what I had in mind to do. that's what I wanted to do. you think you would a guy you could have. got away with it if you would have just. if I just quit way back younger of. course I would have got away with it. yeah and like when they said to make. three hundred thousand dollars. and you could buy in the United States. you could buy most any house you wanted. for three thousand dollars down back. then. 100 houses yeah that could have done. that in California that's been one or. two hundred million dollars now and.

somebody else paid for itself from. nothing it was just there. I just stuck my head in deeper and. deeper into the news until it got pulled. around it that was it. damn. what went through your head when you. found out that Pablo Escobar. was dead or nothing just I thought got. what he deserved were you happy no one. happy or sad. I think you should have been killed I. think she had been executed anybody does.

what he does. but gives gives people like me a bad. name had nothing to do with stuff like. that yeah and the ochos and a lot of. other people that give a Bad Name the. man is a was a megalomaniac. you know different than Putin no. different than Hitler he just. made some money and puffed his chest up. and think I'm going to rule the world. and uh. everybody gets broke down all of them. yeah. yeah he was a bad fertile I'm I'm sorry.

I ever knew I'm not sorry he was ever. involved in something like that. do you have anything else you want to. talk about. yes we should talk about. the prison system. it's going to talk about the prison. system yes. it's so. diabolically. evil and unfair. unjust.

it's full of poor people poor uneducated. people. it's full of people with mentally. illnesses. Ronald Reagan. stopped the mental health program in the. United States when he came in bam Jimmy. Carter had it. all for for all people for mental health. Reagan thought we don't need it let's. put that money somewhere else. and now tens of thousands of people are. on the Street Homeless.

you don't have any insane asylums you. have to be absolutely a babbling idiot. to get into one of those places. so you got all these people that are. just everywhere you go. they're in the Parks and in the freeways. asking for money. and I don't mind I'm asking for money. but those people they need help just. like a person that's got cancer. their mind is cancer something's wrong. with them. and some of them look look pretty nice. but they're not and they come into.

prison they'd be sleeping under a bridge. and a policeman or DEH and I'm. saying they'll go into that bridge and. they'll. they'll do drugs with them and got a big. tattoo and Tattoos all over them big. mustache and they'll get one of them to. sell the other one two or three grams of. methamphetamine it's real cheap. and they'll arrest both of them. now he's got two arrests. then he does that every month or two.

guess who makes captain. yes who makes Chief. the guy that does that kind of crap so. it's kind of terrible stuff just in. traps he's ignorant people I'm an. ignorant of mentally ill people. Alan you've got a young lawyer and he. gets the job as a prosecutor. he wants to make judge and the judge. wants to make Governor the governor. wants to make president and they working. their way up. so he lied she ain't stealed anything I. want a conviction. so he gets that pool filler that's got.

two grounds and he says you plead guilty. to this today. and we'll give you five years if you. don't I'll guarantee you I'm Gonna Get. You 10 years. and that happens from. two grams of methamphetamine right up to. murder. and a fellow that didn't murder somebody. they said we let you we if you plead. guilty to manslaughter we'll give you 10. years but if you don't you're going to. get the needle you're going to get the. electric chair. and it scares these people that are. mentally ill they don't have a lawyer. they don't know anything about how a.

court system works. they don't know anything about their. rights they get a public defender they. don't know much more than they do so and. they plead guilty to these things and. the prison system fills up and the. prosecutor says I have a 98 win ratio. yeah he scared people into signing. confessions. he know better than the Mexican do when. they beat me and stuck chili up my butt. that's that's the way it works it. shouldn't be that way we should be.

Humane we have a wonderful country here. in America we have it and the people. just don't know. and you look at these people and you. think. I don't like those people they they. stink we don't want them. put them in jail lock them up. and that's what. Mr Mrs nice out there think. they should look at them what they. really are. so that that's our prison system today. in our judicial system.

and it needs to change. those people need to come out of prison. and they need to go to mental health the. people there for drug offenses all of. them should be out of there. if two people sell each other something. yes we can't have that but it shouldn't. be life in prison 10 years five years. there's punishment and you got your laws. to do it but it's the crime should the.

time should fit to crime. I agree with that and stay and take away. from this. uh. Penitentiary nobody's doing Pinterest. anymore. that was Quakers they say not it's just. like it's just evil I will shut you in a. cage and treat you bad. and in Australia they tell you a. straight up an award and says you when. the judge sentenced you that's your. punishment to be away from your loved. ones and away from your Society for this. number of years we are not here to. punish you.

not so America. and. the discontent between the blacks and. the Browns and the whites is just awful. in there now. when I first went in there 40 years ago. we all got along and they do to some. degree. but I got sent down there when I got. sent to terminal Island I got into. misplaced a lot of people in their. Wheelchairs and limping around and dying. and bags on them. and I went into the.

TV room and no no seniors no senor. you white you don't come here this is. this is for the Latinos I said I speak. Spanish no senior por favor no. really I said no this this is only for. the Latinos. and I go across and then one across the. way what you doing here. this is black tell them get the [ __ ] out. of you man.

watch here yeah that's out there. you know I didn't don't come across that. door. what. so I have to go from to the other side. in another TV there's old white men in. there with a long hair and. yellow mustaches from smoking they in. their Wheelchairs and sitting around in. there and I come in and says show us. your paperwork don't come in here till. you show your paperwork. what are you talking about I ain't. showing you [ __ ] man.

well we'll take you out well you're. gonna take me out in that wheelchair. no man don't don't come in here you. gotta see you have you might be a. pedophile you might be a snitch you. might be a homosexual I said what they. can't come in here no. they got their place down at the gym. like what in the world's matter with you. people that's so that's what it's got to. just hatred between people yeah the. races of what they did and in the chow. hall you don't dare sit at that table.

over there boy that's the important boys. and these over here they. they are informers and he's over here. pedophiles and he's over here or these. and they're all separated there in the. chow hall. they're all in prison. of course I can understand some of it. but it's going way too far. wow. that's the U.S prison system that's the. U.S how they got there do you think you. will become an advocate for a prison.

reform oh absolutely if anything that. got all kind of stuff that's going on. and just it's. people worried about where a little boy. is going to go pee pee I mean they ought. to be worried about something worthwhile. and prisons is a good spot to start and. mental health is even right up there. with it. those two things and it's so simple to. straighten out. absolutely. what do you think the solution is.

mental health programs money a lot of. money and trickle down to the right. people that's plenty of money yeah. billions and trillions of dollars these. corporations. I I'm I'm completely against all this. big corporations on everything whatever. in the world happened to the store the. little donut shop the little whatever. they all owned by Walmarts and. all these big ones how did we let them. just take over nobody can make a living. anymore with a business out there what.

happened that just I don't know if. that'll ever change but it's wrong. I should be able to open a store on the. corner and make a living you can you can. can't compete with those people they buy. out of China get it shipped over here. and have Labor that's. five dollars a day made it you can't you. can't work with it. I uh I had bees I was a beekeeper I had. 500 hives of bees and I was getting 42. cents pounds of honey and using. pollination and the government says okay. we're gonna free trade we're gonna let.

Brazil and every other country ship. honey went to seven cents a pound. I couldn't even look after the bees. had to get had to give them away and. nobody wanted to buy them. so that stuff is happening to all kind. of. human being not little people people. that move to work yeah so do you get a. job driving a truck for UPS or whatever. for 25 bucks an hour you oh. man my wife's got one too.

and and try to make a living that way. but it shouldn't be that way but I'm not. talking about big business I'm just. talking about the. the government should take some of these. trillions and billions of dollars that. they spending and put it in the right. position right place. that uh we talk about how much money was. wasted in uh. Afghanistan and the Middle East in that. War I don't say that it wasn't necessary. but they said when you talk about how. much it was I read you can't you can't.

have any number of when you get numbers. with 10 and or nine and and zero from. here to the wall it doesn't make any. difference yeah but I understand it cost. in goods and services and it cost. every human being from a little tiny. baby to the oldest person in the United. States a brand new three-bedroom home. now you put into that perspective. and you say wow. well there's a lot of money being listed. on a lot of things of course it is.

and uh putting everybody into you. complaining about school shootings right. now which they should be great and then. they hired 89 000 IRS agents. yes 89. 000. I don't know people to protect schools. yes but but they hired 89. 000 is it 87 or 89 000 just try to make. sure new ones new ones I saw that where. in the world what did they come for you. know we sent 54 billion.

to Ukraine you know instead of spending. it on our own infrastructure but I think. it all just comes back around in these. guys Pockets you know. a little goes Ukraine funnels back in. you know obviously the IRS so yeah but. anyway if they would put up the money. first off for mental health. that would that would and I mean for. sure you take treat those people right.

they don't have to pamper them just get. them off the street and give them. something to eat and clean their clothes. up and give them a haircut in a shaving. oh I mean you know yeah absolutely give. them they got a prison sale for them why. in the world can't they make a little. room for them somewhere. outside of the town where they got a. where they got A Streetcar or a bus. service right back and forth and and if. they. the ones that need mental health. medicine the one that need mental health.

nurses doctors. get that make it go now then you're. gonna stop the influx to the prisons if. those people have somewhere else to go. and then next go into prison it's see. about those people. if they are deemed possible and not. dangerous. and they got mental health you put them. in a facility out there that was made. for that problem not a not a. penitentiary. let them go let them get a little little. Humanity let's just show some love in.

this country take care of our own. I mean it needs to be done it needs to. be stomped hard down done and. we need to teach in schools. Family Family Values. about how many children you can afford. how old you have to be to have a child. my daughter is a doctor and she. delivered a baby to a 10 year old girl. oh man.

four generations in the vision room all. of them on welfare. and all of them with a bunch of children. in each generation. and I see that little boy is like Elvis. Presley's song In the Ghetto he doesn't. have much of a chance. poor poor little things I said it. shouldn't be. you have to have a permit to ride a. moped in the United States the most. anywhere else. how much more important. to bring a child into this world.

I say that a little Sparrow. built her nest before she lays an egg. we don't have that much sense. it's very true. what was it like when you got out of. prison you made a video about this got. what six million views in 12 hours or. something yes and then they took it down. but. I'll play the video right now hello. folks.

for 33 years. marijuana. the first sign I saw when I come down. the road. relax we deliver your marijuana to you. what was it like for you. to come out of prison. and you'd spent many years in prison for. marijuana I'm not counting the cocaine. stuff but for marijuana and then you saw. that sign will deliver it right to your. front door it just made me smile all. over and I say how ironic how stupid the.

world is I mean it's just absolutely. that it was it's just ridiculous and how. many people they were shot and killed. and put life in prison for marijuana. yes and now it's now it's okay now they. deliver it to your front door that's. right it was the same thing when I was. making whiskey in Georgia you go across. the river in Florida my wife couldn't. understand it well it's you can go down. there and buy all you want and up here.

they'll shoot and kill you yeah. just one state to another. so I made your moonshine. no in every town everywhere same place. liquor stores you go in the little store. and a little gal behind the counter can. hand you a jug of whiskey just like. nothing take the. take the cigarettes off of the counter. and just get them out I mean it's just. so much stuff it's just just ridiculous.

well Roger I want to wrap this thing up. but um. you have got one hell. of a story behind you and um. for anybody listening I just want to say. all the links if you're looking to get. in touch with Roger or follow them on. social media all the links are below the. book. is linked below. I hope your book sales go up yeah don't. forget that book folks and what um.

what do you got coming up I know you got. some stuff maybe in the works do you. want to talk about that or no yeah I'll. just say that uh I I want to make a. series about this and and these uh. people looking into it. but uh I hope they do and uh had a. couple of writers and they they say they. have a deck laid out for 30. but we'll. see if it goes if it is it there's a. chance of it and uh. so I'd like to get the story out there. well it'll be a whole story to watch.

we'll be watching and uh I just want to. say it was real pleasure to meet you and. your wife and hang out with you guys and. and it was a real pleasure to get your. story out and I thank you I just wish. you the best of luck the likewise for us. was a really good dude. cheers. thank you. foreign. [Music].

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