Peter Berg - Exposing Big Pharma, Lone Survivor, and Hollywood’s Dark Side | SRS #157

[Music]. Peter BG welcome to the show pleasure. man thank you man I can't even believe. you're sitting here I've watched so many. of your movies and series and and uh to. have to have you sitting here is uh. pretty surreal well I feel the same way. I've watched a lot of your shows and I. figure it's good it's good for you to. expand your uh your reach and and get a. a direct to come on here because uh you.

know I think I asked you if you'd had. any other directors and you said not yet. so I'm glad to be here uh I'm a big fan. of yours and um good job man man thank. you thank you I am curious I have to. know this how the hell did like you got. to be super busy guy and with with with. who you appear to be surrounded by I. mean how did my how did this pop up on. your radar are I was trying to think.

about when I first came to know of you I. you know I know a lot of seals um and it. might have. been uh Marcus or Morgan Latrell that. somehow got you on my radar um and uh a. couple of other guys that are living in. California that I know but just your. name came up um you know I'm always. interested in uh anything a seal is. doing particularly in exal um I know how.

challenging it can be for for so many. Team guys to kind of figure out the next. chapter of their life um and we get a. lot of guys in La who are trying to. figure it out and kind of trying to get. into writing or directing or stunts and. I pay attention to that try and help and. I heard about you and how you had kind. of found this whole new career for. yourself and having gone through you. know the military experiences you have I. found that really [ __ ] impressive wow.

and and that caught my my eye also so. you know I don't I don't think people. understand um how hard that transition. is you know I mean obviously military. guys do but civilians don't they don't. think about it if they do they you know. kind of think about it but to go. from the job that you've had and you. know I've been fortunate to have a. pretty decent look at you know for a.

civilian to understand how difficult it. is to let go of that world and and move. into civilian life. um I think it's important that people do. make an effort I do and and I just a lot. of respect for what you've done man. thank you a lot that means a hell of a. lot coming from you so I really. appreciate it um well let's I got all. kinds of stuff that we're going to talk. about when it comes to that but uh. everybody starts off with an. introduction here so.

Peter BD you're born in the heart of New. York City in the 1960s you moved to Los. Angeles in your early 20s and have. realized your dreams of becoming a a. celebrated film actor writer director. and producy producer earning alkalides. across multiple platforms your approach. to film making is deeply personal often. focusing on real stories that highlight. human endurance teamwork and the fight. against adversity your films are known.

for their gritty realism emotional depth. and action that feels both authentic and. exhilarating among your many creative. Endeavors Friday Night Lights Lone. Survivor and deep water Horizon stand. out as highlights in your career more. recently you tackled the opioid. epidemic that's like super close to me. and uh and uh I'm sure you know why. which we'll get into the opioid emic. epidemic. headon with your Epic show painkiller.

just one week after its release. painkiller ranked number one in the top. 10 English language series genre and. currently has over 54 million hours. viewed and on January 9th you're about. to introduce your latest project. American primeval into the world on. Netflix I look forward to discussing. that today thank you for giving us a. sneak peek that uh. like it looks so awesome and uh so.

realistic and and uh like the sounds in. it are it's amazing it's amazing I think. you like it I can't wait I can't wait. for that to come out and uh Clear Eyes. Full Hearts can't lose can't lose let's. dig in. so so also everybody gets a. gift just a little something for the uh. flight home open it now right yeah go.

ahead open it. up S V the gummy bears bears yeah okay. they're not going to get me high I'm not. going to give me R or anything no you'll. have to go back home to California to. get those okay I can get them but uh I. love gummy bear yeah those are good. little something for the FL oh well. here's here's yours I got you I got you. this because I said I might need it oh. I'm not good with 3 hours that's from. what I understand some ATT he's finest.

uh from right here right in Franklin oh. man this is awesome yeah FR Distillery. yes sir perfect um thank you and then I. got you this is this is a limited. edition this is an American primeval. crew hat which generally we had to earn. up on the mountain um but I figure you. you've definitely done your fair share. of earning so that's a gift for me and. the entire crew of American from. Primeval man thank you I'm going to have.

you sign this this is going to be a. relic in the in the studio I'd be. honored thank you this is very cool yeah. that's that's rare that's a collector's. pie perfect cool man I'll get it I'll. get it yeah we'll have you sign it after. the uh okay after the uh after the. interview here and then um one last. thing I got a patreon account they. they're my top subscribers top. supporters okay they're the reason I get. to be here and you get to be here. they've been with us since the beginning.

and so one of the things I do is I offer. them the opportunity to ask every guest. a question and uh you had a ton so this. is from Tory Miller with so many great. movies that you've directed and several. based on true events which movie was the. most stressful to film it made you feel. that you got that you got it right when. it finally released right so I've been. asked this question before and I I'll. give the real answer like you know I. could just say say oh well L Survivor is.

my favorite or friend night life is my. favorite but the the truth is they're. all incredibly [ __ ] hard to make. every single movie that any director. makes any TV show is really really hard. um you go into it believing you're going. to touch God and Achieve real greatness. and you're going to change lives and. you're going to tap into the Divine. creative forces of the universe uh and. you just don't always do it some. sometimes you fail miserably sometimes.

you succeed but the reality is they're. all really really challenging and you. end up kind of looking back at least I. do uh and loving certain things about. every one of them um even the ones that. suck uh you you know because you don't. go into it thinking hey man I'm gonna. make a really shitty movie and I don't. care no you go into it like you know I. would imagine you know an athlete goes. into into a game uh um a team guy goes.

into a building um you know a dentist. goes into a mouth with a drill you go in. expecting to have a good result you know. if you're like a competitive ambitious. human being and so I try for them all to. to work every single movie and know I I. love all of them they're all really. stressful um if you really pushed me.

I'll probably say like Lone Survivor is. my favorite and that was the most. emotional yeah um but I love them all. yeah it's uh you've made some just. amazing amazing stuff and uh but yeah I. would. say I mean that had to be a lot of. pressure you know considering the events. uh that happened that that that that the. movie's about and then and just our. conversation before we you know actually. officially started the interview.

about showing the families. um I. mean that's that's tough I mean that is. yeah I we're talking a little bit about. it and for some reason you know I always. say like I want to make a love story. just film a love story with a girl and a. boy on a beach drinking wine kissing and. crying and doing all the things that. people do Falling in Love on a beach and.

then I I always end up on top of a. mountain with a bunch of stunt guys. fighting for their lives and you know. pyot Technics bombs going off and. weather and animals and I I can't seem. to just make the love story so I I tend. to be drawn towards more challenging. projects and in the case of Lone. Survivor um like right from the get-go. and I met Marcus. Latrell uh and you know first looked.

into his eyes I knew I read the book uh. quickly and he was in town uh. interviewing directors and a lot of. directors wanted that. story so I met with them and literally. from the moment I met sat down with him. and looked into his eyes I was kind of. caught up in this spell of of emotion. and pain and and sacrifice and this. energy that Marcus had kind of got me. and.

and still to this day it still gets me. just FaceTiming him I have such a. connection to him but making Loan. Survivor uh and you know started with. going to the deet family the Axel and. the Murphy family and asking for their. blessing and telling the story um and it. all all three of those meetings were. very emotional um I remember going to uh. Danny's parents house in Colorado.

and his father taking me into his. bedroom uh which they left kind of as it. was almost from from a young age or you. know Hot Wheels and posters of girls and. you know toys and all kinds of things. and there was also his uniform that had. been recovered and his father that they. recovered holy. [ __ ] his father sat me down on Danny's. bed which is his bed from childhood and. he he had a piece of paper and he.

started reading from the paper and he. started talking about an a I remember. hearing after Action Report autopsy and. he started uh reading and he said left. knee bullet left thigh bullet groin. bullet and I realized he was reading his. son's autopsy report and he started. shaking and he said abdomen bullet and I. could see the tears falling out of his.

eyes and hitting that paper and he. finished I can't remember how many times. Danny dutes was shot but a lot and he. put the paper on my lap and the autopsy. report was his father's tears in it and. he said that's who my son was that's how. tough my son was you make sure you get. that. right and I thought to myself okay what. the [ __ ] have I gotten myself into with. this um not a joke very very real to.

some very good decent human beings. parents and wives and siblings and it. was a tremendous amount of pressure to. make sure that when I was done and I. showed that film to not just the. families but the entire seal Community I. think uh Admiral mccraven was was. running either Socom or the seals I'm.

not sure what he he was running when we. finished but I had to show it to him and. all of those folks um and and the. families and everyone in between and. every day I was making that film I was. thinking about the Murphy's the detas. the aisin Marcus um and so was the whole. crew so was Mark Wahlberg um it became. something much more than a than a a. movie for us um we didn't quite realize.

the power of the. Brotherhood of the seal community of. your community you know at first maybe. certainly some of the actors didn't but. very quickly everyone did and that that. movie had a special gear that um is very. hard to find and I think if you ask Mark. wallberg or Taylor kitch Ben Foster any. anyone that was involved in that film we. see each other you know text each other. and like no no that was it that that was.

one that would be hard uh to replicate. and a feeling it's very hard to get and. the pressure um to get it right was. there every day including the tra on set. every day reminded me that if I didn't. get it right he was going to kill me so. that every day I Would by the end at. first I was really scared and then sort. of halfway through I would see Marcus in. the morning I'd be like I know I have to. do a really good job say or you're going. to kill me anything else she'd be like.

nope that's it I like got it and then I. go about. it man and then he had Morgan kind of. like lurk in his backup yeah cuz you. know for me Marcus was a scary one but. Morgan was a really scary one um who. really didn't have to say much um but. was have you met Morgan do you know him. at all I've never met him and he's such. a great guy and you. know in Washington now doing really well.

I just spoke to. him last week and um you know having. those two guys suddenly in your life and. and then just the general sealed. Community um was a gut check and it. definitely focused a little bit harder. every second than I uh have in some. other. films if you're like me getting a good. night's sleep is a struggle between a. and pains trouble falling asleep and.

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visit. amac.us SRS today to take advantage of. this special offer that's. amac.us SRS join AMAC and be part of a. movement that stands for you your family. and your. future yeah wow now that is uh that's. heavy I mean that's you know. we it's interesting you know. the kind of some things we can relate to.

that being one of them I mean we my. platoon was the guys that went in and. relieve them uh after that and I I told. you about the rounds up there and that. just gave me goosebumps when I walked in. here and saw the rounds from the chinu. that crash that I was not expecting to. see that yeah yeah it's. uh pretty heavy there's some heavy stuff. in this room uh it's very historic but. but um yeah I remember you know when we.

we got the after actions report when we. got into country and uh they showed us. uh it was I think it was uh it was some. kind of recruiting video that um kind. put up yeah I saw it and uh you could I. remember seeing I was new you know. fairly new and I remember seeing Danny. Deets. uh upside down on the Mountaintop and. his Cammy blouse was pulled up and uh a.

lot of the guys in my platoon had were. in a were in a team with Danny and they. were like holy [ __ ] like he just got. that tattoo and I was with him when it. when he got it on his rib cage and it. was just like that's when it became very. real for me I can't imagine how how. personal and how much emotion you guys. must have felt seen that those videos I. saw those videos it's rage I mean yeah I. would watch him every time we went out.

on an OP that was my that was. my my warm up yeah man you know I would. this is why the [ __ ] we're doing this. because of this and um but uh and then. you know uh I can't wait to get into. some of the opiate stuff too I and um. with you that's something we can relate. on I lost my best friend to opiates and. uh who was struggling you know you were. just talking about you know the. transition from military forign military.

guys getting back into civilian and. everybody goes down the down the spiral. and and he didn't make it out and it was. it was because opats I mean actually it. was because of that operation so that. was my best friend's team he was part of. the recovery operation he was part of. the the recovery operation he. was I'll tell you this this was this. I've never talked about this but.

he was that was his sister B tune he was. in Iraq they were doing having a great. deployment which means they were going. after a lot of bad guys he had his. name's Gabe. uh I don't know if I should be doing. this but [ __ ] it I'm going to do it and. uh CU this he had one of the worst runs. I've ever heard and. uh he was engaged and.

um had a mess up at a strip club and got. a stripper pregnant broke off the. engagement uh was going to do the right. thing um he he was going to do the right. thing in in his mind which was to marry. her marry the stripper have the baby and. uh and he deployed to Iraq well uh they. were getting after it and she went into. labor there were some complications so.

he left Iraq to come. home and to be with her while the while. the baby was born gets home goes to the. hospital the baby's dead the mom is dead. he doesn't tell anybody he goes back to. Seal Team 10 and says hey uh I want to. go back with the guys over in Iraq they. say oh you didn't hear the guys are. coming home early he' screamed to go to. Development Group uh and they said hey.

you need to. reinlist so how about you jump in with. the your sister platoon who's in. Afghanistan right. now he's like well I don't have any of. my gear it's all in Iraq still and they. said don't worry you don't need year. you're not going on operations you're. just going to go over there reinlist get. it done jump back on the bird come home. so he wears his dress cammies gets on. the bird they land uh in Germany for a. layover find out that Marcus is on the.

run then they he lands in bam you know. so they know there's they know that. three guys have died and that Marcus is. on the Run they land in bam and he finds. out that the Hilo went down which was. all his you know the rest of his. friends once to go on the recover on the. recovery Op with with with Dev they. would let him on at first and he was.

like basically he's like I don't they're. like you don't have any kid you can't go. he's like I don't give a [ __ ] I'll I'll. scr up some. [ __ ] so in his dress. cammies goes and takes like piece Mills. some [ __ ] together from the text gets. like a a Helm like a helmet that doesn't. fit with a with a monocle piece of night. uh night vision like a shitty rifle you. know without any Optics on it and he's. in this like a old flak jacket that you.

know I mean you knew the gear we were. using back then cuz you made the movie. but it was like the old [ __ ] that didn't. even have any magazines on it found a. couple of magazine pouches put it on. goes on the [ __ ]. op the dev guys are all like who the. [ __ ] is. this why is a tech coming on this and uh. goes on the op and uh but I mean. that's goes on on the op to recover the. guy the bodies you know they get in a.

firefight out there and um and um and. and he also had a role in Benghazi he. also had a role in the coast bombing at. the. agency um but never [ __ ] told anybody. you know and and he told me when he was. in. buds he was in buds I uh with uh I. believe I know James S was one I think. axelon was the other and this was he was. in buds when 911 happened and through.

hell week and he told me he was sitting. on the grinder or standing on the. grinder so was on one side aon's on the. other and this is. like 30 minutes after the towers go down. W what a time to be on the grinder yeah. and so they give a speech and they're. basically saying hey Blake it's been. peace time for a long time and uh your. guys's generation is going to war and.

look to your right and look to your left. there's a good chance that one of these. guys are going to be dead you know in. the near future James uh Matt axelon and. when he [ __ ] landed when he landed in. bam it was that Master Chief that gave. that speech that greeted him coming off. the [ __ ] bird wow and uh wow yeah. yeah then he later died of uh. of addiction with opiates and so I've.

never told anybody that I've never told. I appreciate yeah yeah and. and I mean it just kind of goes back for. me to what we were talking about the the. complexity for of you know the. difficulty of surviving for anyone that. went through budge during 911 okay yeah. you're going to be busy and good luck. surviving that just literally coming. back alive like s and. axelon couldn't uh and then if you do.

come back the complexities of having to. carry forget about the the woman and the. baby I mean that's horrific and that. that would do most people in then. whatever you saw in theater and people. these these guys are coming back and. having to try and move move on and I you. know know some professional athletes and. I've seen the complex ities of an. athlete retiring um you know I own a.

boxing gym in LA and we get a lot of. military um and and pro athletes that. come in there and and train and just. especially when they're when they've. gotten out uh and and I see firsthand. how hard it is uh for pro football. players we have a couple in there now. we've had a lot of uh Team guys come in. and they're trying to just stand on. their feet like like like children again. like babies in a new world and and uh I.

can't imagine how hard it was for for. your friend to come back with with the. weight of th those experiences in a. world that's not necessarily receptive. and we can't see the injuries right so I. could be talking to you and you look. pretty good and you know you're handsome. and you're ex [ __ ] Navy SEAL and. everybody loves a Navy SEAL and so. you're cool inside it can be you know a. different story uh and I and I I. remember when I someone gave me this.

statistic about how much money the. government spends making the seal right. all the training everything you know. three phases and then all the. specialized training and then I don't. know I heard pretty high numbers for how. what what a it cost to make a seal. versus how much money they put into kind. of keeping an eye on a seal when he when. he's. done They Don't Care About Us while. we're done I tend to agree I mean. certainly they don't act like they care. they might say they care but if you just.

look for actions that that's where it. kind of gets hard to to for me to to. sort out yeah um they they try to hide. it you know they try to hide it they. don't like talking about it because it. [ __ ] up recruiting numbers the upper. echelon of the SEAL Teams [ __ ] hate. this show because because we dive into. it we expose it and it it it you know. and and um you know I don't care if it. hurts the recruiting numers they they I.

believe they have a responsibility I. understand that you know what I went um. I got to go when I was writing Lone. Survivor I got to go to Iraq with Team. five to a place called rawa I don't know. if you ever out there it was a Marine. Corps Base kind up by the Syrian border. and I got to spend a month you know as a. civilian embedded with with a bunch of. guys from Team five and that was without. a doubt one of the greatest experiences. of my life on on many levels and I a. couple of I took a lot from it I have a.

lot of memories but to this point one. memory that really stuck with me when I. tried to when I look now back and I try. to understand the transition for seals. but not just seals it could be any. anyone that was in the military but. certainly could be for Rangers or um. Delta or you know marso or any. particularly special operators that have. to kind of get. out something I remember from my time in. Iraq was I got to go with uh the seals.

and they were going to go into a house. and you know kick in a door and get a. guy and so they all went in and they. wouldn't let me go in until it was. Secure uh and so I was sort of out on. the street and I was on a corner with. this one young seal I think it wasn't. quite a new guy but he was young little. guy and he he was doing Security on his. corner and I was kind of with him and. and he wasn't really talking to me he. was kind of looking down the street and. there were three three Iraqi young men. that had sort of come were staring at us.

and he knew enough Arabic to say you. know go get out of here and he yelled it. at him and they stared at him and he. yelled it again and and they sort of. walked away and afterwards after the. whole lap we were back at the base I. said well what would you have done if if. they didn't. leave and he said I would have killed. him I said what he said well you know. the way I look at it is if I'm working. and I see them I own them I own their.

shoes I own their pants I own their. shirt and I own their organs I own their. heart their heart is mine so I do. whatever the [ __ ] I want with. that I own. them and I remember. thinking well this guy's going to have. trouble getting out of the. military like how do you take and I. totally understood that mindset of like. [ __ ] it I Will Survive my job is to. protect. this. corner my guys are in that house I will.

[ __ ] protect this corner I I. understood. that but then thinking well this guy's. going to have to get out one day and. he's going to be in traffic and. someone's going to cut him off or he's. going to be in Starbucks and someone's. going to say some [ __ ] and like the. complexity of that kind of. mindset to have to adjust to being able. to be like I remember uh someone once. talked about Mick Jagger right the.

Rolling Stones guy and you met in the. how in like 1975 when the Rolling Stones. were the biggest band in the world and. MC Jagger told the story about how he to. come home from a world tour where they. were selling out stadiums all around the. world and he's Mick [ __ ] Jagger and. he comes home and his wife Jerry Hall. this woman and he has a has has a baby. she hands him the baby she says clean up. the baby and there's dog [ __ ] in the. yard and MC Jagger's like but I'm Nick. [ __ ] Jagger I just came back from you.

know. the and I got and I always thought that. moment just a little moment where I I. felt what it means to have that kind of. power in a place like Iraq well now you. got to come home and you have to turn it. in you have to retire and you have to. move. forward I don't I don't think civilians. understand that yeah they.

don't they don't you know but I think. that uh that's that's a that's I think. that that's a big reason why opiates. become such such. a such a problem you know in in the. community I mean and they're right there. and so then yeah it numbs that out turn. it offs it out and uh and. then it's just just it's the only thing. that seems to turn the switch off you.

know for a lot of people and um the. immediate easy fix you just it numbs you. out to where you don't give a [ __ ] you. know anymore yeah and um and then you. know down the spiral we go well that was. what painkiller you know was for me the. the show I did about Purdue Pharma you. know and the Sackler family um it's. interesting just today what's the date. today what is is it the 16th the 16th so.

today on the way over here someone sent. me New York Times article about a new. twist in the opioid epidemic these. companies that serve as the middlemen. between the doctors and the um the uh uh. I'm sorry between the prescribers and. the insurance companies they're these. companies that control what the. insurance companies will allow to be. prescribed so if the doctor says you. should have. 250 you should be able to take 250.

milligrams of oxycotton a day these. companies are in charge of regulating. whether the insurance companies will pay. for that so they've got this incredible. power and there's three main companies. can't remember the names of them but. just today in the paper and now it came. out in the times today that the sackers. and other drug companies were bribing. these guys to restrict the the amount of. pills that were allowed to be prescribed. so they would. they would get paid off and they would.

allow these these incredible. prescriptions to be put through and the. insurance companies to pay for them so. it's just more of a game within a game. within a game damn did when you made. that I mean I mean that that that. exposed a lot of [ __ ] to the public that. that that people weren't really thinking. about I mean when you make something. like that do you have any. fear a little bit for a minute I I did.

uh you're [ __ ] with some really. powerful people so at first I didn't. right it's like like people said well. when when you went to wct were you. scared and I said well not really cuz. there were 20 Navy Seals around me all. the time and I felt pretty safe when I. got back and I kind of really looked at. the map and figured out I felt a little. more nervous but in the moment I didn't. feel nervous probably should have felt a. little more nervous but I felt very safe. for the guys um the sackers at first I'm. like well yeah well these guys are.

[ __ ] scumbags [ __ ] them let's make a. movie and let's let's tell the truth you. know I have friends that have died from. drug addiction and I don't give a [ __ ]. and let's go I'm not scared the more. research I did the more nervous I got. because they're just like these are like. real Mobsters um these are the real. Pablo escobars the the real drug dealers. that are you know putting up numbers. much larger than the median cocaine. cartels the the the companies like um.

Purdue and and the Sackler families so. the more I learned about just how. powerful and quiet they were and what. kind of masterminds at secrecy like you. still if if you try and you know search. Richard Sackler they're so [ __ ]. scrubbed that you'll get virtually. nothing on them and they just constantly. cycle that and I don't still I I've yet. to find anyone who's better scrub as far. as you know internet than Richard. Sackler the you know the Kingpin of the.

Sackler family um but so the more I. learned the more nervous I got and there. was a moment where I was literally. paranoid and I'm like checking my back. and like like making sure doors are. locked and you know having access to. security if I felt threatened and I. realiz like if they want to get me. they're going to get me um and kind of. by the. time we really got going there the wave. was really getting big people were. finally starting to say the name Sackler.

and realize just how dirty and corrupt. this family was and I felt a little I. think all of us involved felt at least. secure and that like if there it was so. public at this point that if they did. come after us everyone was going to know. it's like I didn't have to leave a note. like hey man if something happens to me. it was Richard Sackler people kind of. already would get that yeah and. everyone's like dude I don't know if I. want to stand so close to you I I I'd. invite my friends out to dinner and.

they're like yeah no we're good I'm busy. for a while let's see how the the show. plays out people kind of distance. themselves joking me for a minute. but I mean I I I'm not necessarily like. the biggest conspiracy guy like I'm. always up to entertain a good conspiracy. story like I'll talk about Lee Harvey. Oswalt for a long time and the magic. bullet theory and all that but I and I. don't even know whether it's a. conspiracy or it's just like the.

realization of how the world does. business and this if you really want to. understand what the [ __ ] going on not. just in Pharmaceuticals but I have think. on almost any business certainly the. business of War right the amount of guys. that are making money off of War right. that's a different story but the way the. money rules the world it's all about. money and the sackers knew it and the. sackers knew that they had this.

incredible product that could do this. incredible thing take away your [ __ ]. pain like for anyone that's dealt with. pain whether it's like the emotional. pain that your buddy went through after. losing his child and girlfriend and. seeing what he saw in that helicopter. he's in pain give me that pill give me. 40 milligrams of that yeah liquid honey. you know that happens to have a little.

battery acid in the middle of it I'll. take it and the sackers knew it and they. knew how to monetize it and they knew. how to game the. system and I think like the worst thing. that I found the thing that really. floored me was this guy Curtis Wright do. you know who Curtis Wright is Curtis. Wright no so the the one of the. challenges the sackers had in in with. oxycotton and Purdue had they needed to. get the FDA to approve it right they had.

spent so much money developing this drug. and they were having financial problems. prior to oxycotton being um uh you know. approved by the FDA that they were all. in on on oxycotton and they needed the. FDA to approve it like you think about. the FDA and big government organization. and it you know is probably a big. organization that probably does need a. haircut I bet they're going to get one. now with the new Administration which is.

probably a good thing I think um but you. think oh wow the FDA has to approve. oxycotton that's probably a team of 50. scientists and they're going to have to. go it was really just one guy and it was. this kind of nerdy dude named Curtis. Wright and he was the obstacle he kept. saying to the sackers and to Purdue. Pharma I can't improve this drug this is. heroin in a little Eminem rapper like. what do you [ __ ] crazy no and they. kept trying he went through multiple.

applications and this one guy was saying. no and that was putting the entire. Sackler family and puru Pharma in real. risk of of financial ruin and so at some. point prior to getting the approval some. members of Purdue Pharma took Curtis. right to a hotel room in the Virginia. area somewhere near DC and they spent a. couple of days in a hotel room room and. no one knows what happened in that hotel.

room when they came out Curtis Wright. had signed the approval with the words. that oxycotton is believed to be. non-addictive is believed is believed. which is weird language it's not. oxycoton is not addictive it is oxycoton. is believed to not be addictive but no. one ever used that language doesn't make. any sense Curtis he approved it I the. drug gets you know going and it becomes.

a grand slam home run and the money's. off the chart about a year and a half. later Curtis Wright leaves the. FDA and goes and works for Purdue Pharma. for he was making they say 70,000 at the. FDA hundreds of thousands at Purdue they. bought them and and when I heard that. I'm like okay that is how the [ __ ]. world operates um and to it's not a. conspiracy it's a fact and you know it's.

public people know about it um human. beings like your friends and friends. that I have are dying and are still. dying people are getting addicted. families are being thoroughly [ __ ] up. and derailed and this is how it goes and. so it was making. painkiller was a you know just. emotionally powerful experience I don't. think there was a Day filming it when.

someone on the crew didn't come up to me. and say hey can I talk to you for a. second my best friend died my cousin. died my mother died just in your studio. today someone that works for you came up. to me and started sharing me a story. about their relationship uh to a family. member and and the drug and it it's it's. omnipresent and. it's horrible and it's you know what get. from it is like let's open up our eyes. and be real honest about how this world.

operates yeah and usually it's money. what were what were some of the things. what was the initial thing that kind of. got you paranoid about Sackler. family I I remember we I was trying to. interview members of Purdue Pharma um to. kind CU like I said you can't get the. information on the sackers so I was. trying to interview members. people who had worked for the company. and we couldn't get anyone to talk and.

then a. journalist uh from The New York Times. who written a book that we was one of. our source pieces of source material for. the book book called Empire of pain that. the author of that book call me said. there's a woman who will talk to you and. she used to work for Richard Sackler as. one of his like five. secretaries and I'm like great he's like. she's going to call you at whatever time. on you know in two days be ready she. going to call you so I was I was in.

pre-production on the film my phone goes. off it's FaceTime and I answer the phone. and it's this woman and she's in a car. and she's pulled over on the side of the. road and she starts talking to me about. working for Richard Sackler but she's. getting real close to the phone and. she's whispering and she keeps looking. around and she told me she'd left work. and driven to the parking lot of a. little strip mall and she was you know. willing to tell me enough about him she. told me some things about him but I.

could feel her legitimate paranoia and. fear of talking about him and after that. call I came back and I said guys we we. we just got to. like you know watch our backs yeah and. be smart because we are poking a bear. yeah and that I don't know man they. still could get me and if they do if I. go quick or I go weird. check out the sackers I will I do feel.

pretty safe here with you though I gotta. say we're in good company yeah I feel. safe but uh did you did you struggle. with addiction at all. or I was lucky I I never I never had. addiction um I have family members that. have they've used um 12 step to to their. to their you know I have one sibling and. you know she done an incredible job. she's 30 years sober and a has been a.

godsend to her and we've talked about. addiction and um and I've asked her I'm. like what what do you think it is like. you know I've asked her do you think I'm. an addict because I do drink um there's. not a drug I haven't. tried pretty much I don't think I've. done bath salts or angel dust okay take. those too maybe a few others but I've. tried. them and I I don't know man I always had. that ability to sort of see see through.

the shot see through the line you know. if someone put a line of coke in front. of me back in the day I might do one but. then I think about the other and I kind. of have that that it's not that I didn't. want to do it and that I didn't see kind. of what was good and what felt good. about it but I was able to sort of see. well let's let's jump ahead 24 hours uh. 48 hours and think about the cost The.

Hangover the self-loathing the. self-disgust the bad choices that start. to accumulate and the feel and I was. able to kind of I'm good um and my. sister said to me that that ability to. to have that. pause is something that can separate you. know an addict a true addict from. someone that's not and and I think about.

that because I it's not any superum. quality it's nothing that I take credit. for be like oh I can do this uh any more. than I think most of the addicts that I. know suffer not for it's not it's not. about weakness it's not mental weakness. or physical weakness that's causing. someone to go back to that drug or back. to that behavior whatever it is that's. so [ __ ]. self-destructive um it's a it's a.

disease I believe um and I'm fortunate. that I don't think I have it yeah you. know and do you have you have you. experienced it oh yeah oh yeah is that. common knowledge I forgive me for not. knowing yeah it is it's uh I had a hell. of a run in Colombia with cocaine yeah. uh I appreciate the bottle but I've been. I've been uh I've been sober for three. years good for you man and uh well I've. been off booze for 3 years but uh yeah.

really I was really right in the line. there opiates Coke benzo. booze sleeping pill all of it combined. together and then uh and then um I did a. a. psychedelics. um treatment you had a little journey. you went on j a little journey went down. went down to Mexico to do uh do some. drugs that got me off the drugs what.

were some of the the drugs I'm sure. everyone knows this and you talked about. forgive me f it was uh so I I had really. cleaned it up I had a I had uh so I. moved down to medine yeah that's a. tricky spot for anyone that's even. tempted to flirt with the devil you're. going to find it down there well that's. kind of why I went and uh you found what. you were looking for it I definitely. found it and uh overdosed a couple times. almost died uh I remember calling my mom.

on Mother's Day uh you. know I've always. heard you don't have to worry about you. don't have to worry about how much coke. you've had until things starts slowing. down and they said uh they said when. you're on. speed and things start slowing down. that's that's. when you're riding the line and uh that.

happened to me a couple times down there. where it all it was. like it was like that [ __ ] scene in. Old School where like you know the the. voice is. like I started hearing that how how much. coke had you done do you thinking how. long was the. binge about 5 years and uh a lot I mean. I just it's just I mean it's you know at. that time. like really good Coke in Miami was like. 150 bucks a gram yeah and uh down there.

I was getting it for five bucks a gram. it's just and it was so much stronger. right yeah I mean it's fresh from the. it's just right right I mean it's. Columbia you know but would you do like. because I I never. did I I but I heard about like 3 Day 4. day binges that people would go on and. you're not sleeping you're just doing. more did you ever experience anything.

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the time and uh I would go you know I. don't know I never really kept track but. I mean I never stopped like I would I. would go hard in the paint. for a week oh my goodness and then I I. would go all the way up until the point. where like I would get like this really. bad heartburn and I would just drown. Tums and. pepto and anything like I just wanted to. keep how did you get yourself out of.

that well I actually got run out by the. federal police and uh I I so I like. really. uh I. always take care of everybody around me. and um I do with my team now I I've I've. just always done it I've always been and. so when I went down there I had a a kind. of a I I had a penthouse in uh in a. neighborhood called el.

pabl and um so anybody that was around. me I would take care of so like number. one guy door doorman who has access into. the building that I'm. in the door guide and so all the door. guys like if I went to go get booze they. got booze if I went to go get Coke they. got Coke when I would leave uh Colombia. come back the states I would give them. all my clothes my shoes my sung. everything like a computer it done.

anything if I went to go get a phone I'd. got them a phone so I really took care. of those guys because I knew that they. controlled access into the building and. and up to my apartment and so uh they. had kind of tipped me off and uh one of. them in particular tipped me off and uh. and uh had told me that that they had. set up. a they had set up a observation point in. a building across the mine and um and.

that they may have bugged. the uh recess Lighting in the hallway. outside of my uh where I was at but this. is real or was this like Coke paranoia. no this is real. okay yeah and so when I got one to that. I uh I high tailed it out of there and. never went back cleaned it up cleaned up. the coke tried to clean it up then I. started going to Costa Rica but Costa. Rica was like [ __ ] Disneyland.

compared to what I was doing Pita you. weren't about the P joke it was just a. bunch of greenos down there wanted to. wanted to have sex with with Latin Costa. Rican girls and I was I was just like. this is [ __ ] stupid TV I need I need. to be cuz the real issue was adrenal. indiction from from all my time in and. um right but that goes back to what we. were talking about earlier like you get. to play God yeah talk about adrenaline.

what are you going to do with that. energy when you get out you're going to. go to medine and shack up yeah right. people would come down to visit me and. uh to think it would be a good time. which I thought you know I'm not. condoning this it was a [ __ ] it was. horrible and I speak against it all the. time now but but um they couldn't you. know they'd last maybe two days and. they'd be they' come down to visit me. for a month and then I'd get a note you. know on my table that's like dude I'm. out of here like this is [ __ ] crazy.

and um and uh cuz it it wasn't uh I mean. it's just different it's just crazy down. there I mean I used to go to this um. Club it was called Fahrenheit and in the. club they had like these tables where. they would they would line like put. lines and mounds like little mounds and. key bumps and [ __ ] on the table. of coke and then lacer over the top you. know right now some of your viewers are.

like just Googling Fahrenheit and. booking play tickets right now well that. was a long time ago I'm sure they're. looking but uh don't do it yeah but. don't do it that doesn't lead anywhere. good right so okay so what would happen. they you go to Fahrenheit How would how. would that play out I mean it was just. that was I mean that was just one. hangout but what I really like doing was. I mean what I really liked was the. adrenaline you know and and I it just. you know the adrenaline from from the.

teams and then my time at the agency. like it just I mean it was just always. like [ __ ] was happening and then when I. left I I couldn't [ __ ] feed that. anymore and um and uh I had no nowhere. to get it you know and so that's I was. like I'm going to go down here I'm like. but what what do you think the how would. did you go get into 12 step did what. what saved you what got you to to walk. away from the drugs and the alcohol and.

that Mother's Day thing like really got. to me because I was like man I'm going. to I'm going to [ __ ] OD down here and. uh my body will just decompose cuz. nobody really gives a [ __ ] about me down. here nobody knows I'm here other than my. parents and they'll just eventually get. a call like hey your son's body's. [ __ ] decomposing in this penthouse. heod on coke you know and like the. career that I've had before that it was. just like oh there's my son the former. seal former CIA contractor who's [ __ ].

died of a cocaine overdose I was ashamed. and and so I went home and I I mean I. still struggled with the benzos and cuz. down there would I would just you know. you can get whatever you want so if I. was getting you know eventually if I was. getting. too going too hard down the coke train I. would just pop a volume and then yeah. but whatever but uh but uh then I had a. suicide attempt and uh that was really. like the breaking point for me when I.

got when I got back home just nothing. was I couldn't get anything going and. and uh and uh pulled the car in the. garage and reclined the seat back. and. uh I woke up wouldn't I I should have. never woken up but anyways that's what. you call it positive fail my friend yeah. I'm glad you [ __ ] failed me too I. really am I really am. me too but um so so yeah so then you.

know then I then uh but then but then I. found you know psychedelics through this. show and uh went down there and haven't. had kicked everything I mean so the. psychedelics help you are you are you in. 12st Step do you do you use 12st. step Peter it was like a light switch. man what psychedelics did you do I did. uh Iain and 5 m. DNT and you smoked the toad I smoked the. toad I smoked it four times my friend.

really yes. sir I want to hear about. this I love that toad did you die yes. sir tell me about. it I was going to recommend that you. smoked the toad before you told me that. you did how many times have you smoked. the. toad well one day I did it 13 times oh. my good goodness yeah. yeah yeah you had to really get you had.

to get some get to it deep you know but. um but but four times I think I've done. it pip at one like staying under or all. day event I started at come go back you. had a good Shaman that was guiding you. yeah amazing amazing and uh like I just. the first time was the scariest and. probably the one that I got the most out. of I mean like I said you know between. that and the iig again I hav this.

February it'll be three years since. those are the two most powerful I mean. abigan I've never done but I know what. it is I'm scared of it actually yeah and. I've I've met the toad. um wow you really I I couldn't see how. that would have taken care of a problem. cleaned me out still clean how how many. times did you do the abigan one that's. enough right y different experience than. the 5mo totally different how would you.

how would you explain the differences. well I mean I I mean the ibigan is like. a 12-h hour experience they say the. ibigan is is the god The Godfather yes. it's like that's the most powerful yeah. I always heard that 5mo is the god. molecule but abigan is a Goda yeah is. that accurate yeah I think I think I. think so was the iig again like man it. was. uh it was I mean it was about 12 hours.

long I couldn't walk afterwards and then. it was you know in a. nutshell it's like a Life. review it's like a Life. review. of looking at your life. through from an outside perspective like. a non-bias MH. non for me like a non-emotional uh. perspective and so a lot of the.

things uh that kind of happened I guess. you just you process them in like from. way back from when you were a little kid. like and it wasn't all tramatic [ __ ] you. know it was. um like to to be honest it was like this. it was like. the it was like these TV screens like. thousands of them kind of like going off. into a distance and just disappearing. and if I and if every screen was a. different portion like like like segment.

of my life and I could see them through. my peripherals and like see him you know. kind of moving through and I I could. think like oh yeah that's you know when. me and my dad did this thing and that is. in Iraq and that's when I was a teenager. wrestling and this is there was no like. chronological order there was no nothing. and if I tried to pay too much attention. into one screen then they would all. disappear. um and so it wasn't even like I was. reliving experiences but that's kind of.

you know how it went for me I didn't I. didn't. like it wasn't it wasn't a scary. experience other than at the very first. I saw like my head split open and. another one mushroomed out that's a. little scary yeah but but I wasn't it. wasn't you know like you hear some of. the horror stories about people reliving. things or meeting demons I didn't on. abigan is that yeah I didn't didn't meet. any demons I didn't it was just a live. review kind of and and um and then when.

I came out of it it's like I had this uh. new sixth sense that said hey all the. [ __ ] you're doing it's [ __ ] poison. like knock this [ __ ] off quit drinking. quit you know I quit caffeine for a long. time I quit smoking marijuana for a long. time I uh I was still taking Aderall uh. to concentrate right right and uh hadn't. had any of that and and uh like the the. the fruit that came from that experience.

just I mean it totally like. revolutionized this show in my business. I I was kind of scared to leave the. military uh genre not leave it but. explore new territories and like that. somehow that just like do do you credit. the Ia game more than the 5. Meo with with your sobriety yes cuz I've. heard that I've heard that from. ex-military guys ex- Team guys who've. taken iig again and they physically look.

different I've seen them since and the. look in their eye their it's almost like. their facial construction is different. their cheekbones feel different their. eyes feel different their posture um and. they're sober yeah it seems to be the. one of the more. effective medicines yeah I mean they've. done studies on it now it's it's it's. it's uh. I mean it's really changing a lot of. lives you know and it is the cure for.

for opiate addiction for alcoholism and. so if you're out there riding the. [ __ ] line you know like we were just. talking about and uh you're looking for. a way out I'd highly recommend it yeah. man same here and and I do hope that. what whatever. happens with Kennedy and and you know. the new Administration that people start. looking at this and. that any of it whether it's ketamine. suicid and 5mo I began that people start.

at least being educated on what it it. can and cannot do and that the. government starts making these these. medicines available I'm all for it my my. experience on um 5mo I never did iig. again I don't know if I have the guts. for it I was scared to do to smoke the. toad I remember um my friend took me and. my friend's pretty high functioning. business guy successful and you know and. the fact that he had done it and a.

couple other people I know that are. pretty high functioning have done it. made me you know willing to take the. chance that I didn't I was a little. concerned I was going to break my brain. on something that powerful but because. they had done it I felt confident and I. got to the place in California where I. was going to do it the first time and. they were already doing it I was looking. at them and it's a little if you watch. somebody that's going through it you. know they're making some noises and. moving around a little bit and I was. like not quite sure what kind of.

experience they were having and and and. the the guy who who's actually a a. psychiatrist who is now the administer. of administer of this and he used to do. um anti-depressants and anti-anxiety. medication and you know he would write. scripts for it and he started learning. about some of these psychedelics and he. completely changed his practice and only. does 5mo and Iain and I thought that was. interesting but he took me aside he sat. me down he said okay Pete you know.

you're you're about to uh ingest 5 Meo. DMT uh it's the most powerful. psychedelic you know certainly one of. them in the world um it's going to last. 30 minutes or so and you're going to. have this very powerful experience and. you might feel as though you're dying. but you won't and it's telling me all. this stuff and I'm kind of looking at. him he's like do you have any questions. I said well you know I'd heard this. about other Psych Al you know should I. set an intention right like I want to.

make peace with my father or I want to. remember my grandfather or I want to. spend time with my dog Schlemmer who. died when I was eight like you know. what's my goal what should I and he I. remember he looked at me and he put his. hand on my shoulder he said good luck. with that Pete good luck you try and set. all the intentions you. want and that kind of freaked me out a. little bit because I could tell like you. know what I mean he was like okay you. you good luck with your little. intentions. um and I.

remember smoking it and the feeling of. uh for me what what they say they call. ego death right and I've heard I've. talked to other people about it Mike. Tyson's talked about it um you know. something certainly nothing that I'm the. only one that's experienced but when you. experience it you really know you've. experienced it and it's it's interesting. because you try and explain it to people. and you find that words fail you because. we don't literally have the words in the.

English language to explain this kind of. experience because people just haven't. experienced it so they don't have words. for it um and but it is death right of. some sort that that's a word that people. can relate to and and for me the way I. explain what I first experienced was as. the medicine was taking over my mind. I felt myself trying to hold on to. thoughts like okay I'm.

in Malibu California I'm in California. I'm on the west coast of America I'm in. America I'm on the Western Hemisphere. I'm on the planet Earth I was trying to. hold on to and it suddenly the the my. ability to think was just turned off. about that thought and then I went to. well I'm Pete my dad's Larry my. grandfather's Harry my great that's off. um I'm wearing shoes I'm wearing socks. I'm wearing that and every thought I.

could have would suddenly be slammed off. almost like a a Steel Curtain was. shutting down and I could feel myself. trying to hold on to any kind of. thinking any kind of rational. thinking and every thought was. just and then this giant wall of. Darkness came over me and it was a sound. and it was like. over and I remember thinking very. clearly I'm dead and my first thought.

was it's all. over it's all nothing everything is. nothing I thought that wow everything is. nothing. and all of this sort of sudden because I. these word these are just words now I. became aware sort of that something was. still going on I was still functioning. there was brain.

function but it wasn't any brain. function I've ever encountered before. and then I just started going into. something that. felt so expansive and such an energetic. experience that was kind of moving and. unfolding in multiple directions all the. everywhere everything at at once kind of. energy. and that energy overtook me and I. remember I.

sobbed and I laughed and I screamed and. when I came out of it um the people who. had had uh were organizing this the. doctor and his assistants one of the. women had a pet wolf and I didn't know. there was a wolf in the house and I came. to and I was on my hands and knees and I. had snot and tears all over me and I. really had this cathartic release of. feelings that I just don't have the.

ability to access on a regular basis and. I looked up and there's this white wolf. staring at me like little about as close. as you are a little further away locked. into my eyes damn and I'm I'm staring at. this wolf and I start pointing and I'm. I'm trying to determine whether it's. real which it was and I look up at John. the guy and I'm trying to ask him if. this is real and I remember he put his. hand on my shoulder he said Pete try not. to make sense of anything right.

now just stay in. it um and it it was um an incredibly. life-changing experience for me sounds. like a David yoro. photo wow it was it was it was so. powerful and for me because I'm not. religious I I I'm was raised a bit a. atheist I I'm a Catholic Jew and my. parents didn't believe in organized.

religion so I never I just never really. had access to it this this felt um like. an in incredible religious experience to. me and for me and and I people like Pete. stop [ __ ] talking about 5 Meo but I. love talking about 5 Meo and if. someone's done it I'll talk to them. about for. hours because for me the big secret that. we all keep that we all walk around as. humans on this planet and we never. acknowledge well there's a lot of them.

but the real big one for me is a concept. of infinity right concept that if you. look out into the sky at night that in. theory it goes on forever in all. directions it never stops it has no. barriers it has no ending right very. hard to get our mind around I I shared a. car in Greece with Elon Musk alone for. 35 minutes. in traffic and I was like it's a long. story I ended up in a car alone with. Elon Musk and his driver and his.

security guy and I this is after I done. it and I'm like I'm [ __ ] I got Elon. Musk for 35 minutes what do I want to. ask him and I said. Elon what what are your thoughts can you. explain to me like like in a way that I. could understand your concept of. infinity like cuz I can't understand it. how do you process the concept of an. infinite universe and he looked at me. said Pete I don't have a clue I don't. think I ever will and I don't think we. ever will and I.

remember wow okay he he doesn't get it. I'm I'm not so you know I don't get it. either that that tracks but when I was. under it the 5mo I felt as though I was. beginning to experience the maybe very. beginning of a of a look at a glimpse of. what an infinite energy might feel like. and that felt religious to me it felt. like and it sounds so stupid for anyone.

and I get it don't judge don't. judge try it maybe. um th that that's where I went and it. really has helped me so much in every. aspect of my life as a father as a. filmmaker as a friend in business. negotiations it's it's given me access. to to a different perspective um and and. I I would imagine for you it it doesn't.

feel like people like well could I get. addicted to it and I don't know of. anyone that gets addicted to things like. ioan or fiveo it's like no I'm good it. takes balls it's like I I parachuted. I've done you know some jumps and every. time I've jumped it takes it's like you. don't really want to right that last. second you're like and how many jumps. have you had with would you say not very. many okay not very many I had 13 on my. 13th I had a malfunction so I haven't.

gone since but every jump no matter who. and I've been playing you know with some. down in h San Diego or you know that uh. Skydive San Diego which is a great place. Jeff. bramston that's where all the seals tra. and civilians I go as civilian but a. bunch of tough people jumping out of. planes and I know every one of them that. second right before they jump they feel. that maybe not to. at least most people do I'm sure there a. few psychos that don't but that's how I. feel about like 5mo is like I'm glad I.

did it but man if I'm going to do it. again. it's you know I'm hesitant to do it. every time have you done it once or you. have no I've done it I think four times. right it takes and four different. sessions it takes a certain type of. curage yeah take that hit you don't know. where you're going you know and uh. so so you went in so are you saying. you're not an atheist. now no I'm not an atheist but my my.

belief. okay don't judge I'm not here to judge. all right so the second time I did. it I went into this again I went this. time I skipped the crying and what one. thing's interesting is doing it a couple. times you I think you go a little bit. further does this sound utterly insane. you think people are going like oh he's. just [ __ ] drug wacky dude n we talk. about this all the time on this show cuz.

I really believe in this and by the way. I don't believe in cocaine I don't. believe in recreational LSD I think weed. is problematic I put certainly. don't opioids [ __ ] no this is a totally. different animal to me including alcohol. that's all over there this this we're. talking my son completely this is a. medicine I so like all the and all that. [ __ ] like we I I think we kind of. covered it like it's not good I mean I'm.

I it love suicide dark suicidal energies. no this is a whole another experience so. the second time I very quickly went into. this energy that feels like I'm deep in. the universe and I'm experiencing. something that feels like this. multi-directional energy that's just. expanding that I feel maybe part of the. energy that built the universe something. had to build it right got all these uh. planets floating around and you know you.

start getting into like the sun and what. the [ __ ] the sun is and how that thing's. still burning and how we're in this you. know. something right and and so there was. some energetic even if a god caused an. explosion and that created the the. massive Universe not just our little. solar system but the infinite Universe. which we are such a small part of right. so so they say there's more planets than. grains of sand in in the world so it's a.

God would have to be really busy and. he's probably not just our God the way I. look at it but I feeling something and. we don't have words for this but it's a. real energy that word words do it won't. do it justice and as I'm coming out of. this. energy I start to see images of. religious I iconic religious structures. being built the. pyramids the um the Vatican the um the.

notredam cathedral um Mecca in Saudi. Arabia literally I'm seeing man building. these temples and it's coming so I'm. coming out of the energy into man's. building of. religious you know artifacts and temples. and structures and I'm seeing men. building these temples. acknowledging their religion their. gods but to me it felt very reductive.

after being in a much larger energy this. actually felt smaller to me if that. makes sense and then I saw these. religious the. pyramids. Mecca notredam Cathedral I remember very. clearly and I came out of it and there. was a guy with me who was sort of my. attendant I don't know if you had. someone watching you to make sure you. don't take up all your clothes and run. down the street which I didn't but I. looked at him his name was Connor and I. remember coming out of it and I looked.

at him and I said to him Connor. organized religion is somewhat [ __ ]. absurd and he looked at me and he kned. just like you did and I and I. couldn't. understand in that moment having felt. something that to me felt Beyond. organized religion. these structures and I've been to the. mall I've been to notredam I've been to. the Vatican I haven't been I've been.

into Saudi Arabia but I couldn't go to. Mecca I wanted to. um uh I've been to Japan and to India. and seeing Buddhist and Hindu temples. and I appreciate that and I certainly. respect it but in that moment I felt. that if that type of organized religion. wasn't speaking to me but I did believe. that there're definitely a force greater. than anything we can see or feel or.

touch uh out there and that to me was. the most honest religious experience. I've ever had interesting um so that's. kind of where I am that's I mean it it. uh it sent me down a path cuz I was. first time I did it it was I didn't. really believe believe in anything. either I grew up Catholic and uh and. that you know went out the window pretty.

much as soon as I joined the SEAL Teams. with that culture and what we were doing. and and uh but that but but I just I did. you have your eyes closed or or a. blindfold on I I did they were closed so. I did a I did it I wanted to see but I I. didn't they just closed I they didn't. cover them up I couldn't see anything oh. were your eyes open yeah I came back. when I after I died you know after the. what did your death feel. like so it's a new year 2025 and you're.

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and like I it felt like all the negative. like toxicity like [ __ ] that I've. experienced you know rage like it felt. like it was just rushing through my. veins out of my fingers and my toes and. um and it felt like uh it I I had like. this it wasn't really a visualization it. was more like it felt more like an. intuition but it it felt like uh it felt.

like there was this black tar like. dripping off of my heart wow and uh and. I had had my wow that must have been. terrifying it was and uh and I just like. you I had all these thoughts and [ __ ]. about things because that's your ego. trying to hold on to logic and the last. thing the last thing that I was grasping. on to was my wife and my son and uh I. was just like I knew I was 100% certain.

like you're [ __ ] dying Sean like this. there's no coming back you're done and I. was just fighting like hell cuz I. just I didn't want to leave my wife and. my six-month-old son in this [ __ ] up. place and uh so that was like the last. thing that I was holding on to and then. when I when I let that go that's when. the crossover happened and uh when the. crossover happened I like sat back up.

and uh we're on the beach or close to. the beach we're up on like a mount like. a hill and you could see like see how. you know into the. Pacific and there were some islands out. there and I remember everything looked. exactly the same it was just more. vibrant but like every time I do. psychedelics I'm like it's very it's a. lot of intuition. going on and and you know and I was. really reluctant to do this cuz I was.

like this shit's for the hippies I'm not. a hippie yeah and I've heard hippies. talk about energy and all this stuff and. um but what when I open my eyes I saw I. I just you could intuitively feel and. see. this flow of energy from the ocean into. the beach up the trees like into the. your ass through me and it was I could. just you could see it in intuitively and.

you just knew that it was. there and and and you know if I felt. like if there would have been some. negative energy out. there it would have been like a. spotlight in the darkness like you just. would have been able to identify it. immediately uh cuz everything was just. so positive and uh and then I felt the. presence of uh Gabe you know who who we. talked about and um and I I felt that.

uh I just it was the feeling that. everything that all the trauma. everything that had happened. uh throughout my life was supposed to. happen and that it was uh it was. okay and uh that none of it even [ __ ]. mattered because this is such a. minuscule sliver and time that we're. experiencing right now and.

that and so it's it's so it made me. believe again in a higher power yeah and. then um and then it's honestly it set me. on a journey and uh I mean now I'm a. Christian and I've I've had another. experience after that that that that. turned me into uh a Christian that like. [ __ ] slapped me in the face like hey. pay attention and um and. uh it's amazing I mean the stuff that. that it's.

it's and you also realize how minuscule. like you are we are and you're okay with. it you know which is the ego death right. but right well and that's where I say. like it's changed me in all aspects like. I don't get upset about things that I. used to get upset about I'm not quick to. like get to conflict um I found my work. has just gotten better I'm a deeper. Movie Maker um.

I when I was editing um painkiller the. opioid film uh I had two editors and one. I had never worked with and they they. were they were editing while I was still. in Canada filming and I came back and. then I had to come in work with them you. know every day and I was just getting to. know them and one of them had an energy. I just the toad and and they were both. really good guys but I could tell one of. them had a had an energy of heaviness.

Darkness um and I found out that his he. and his wife had taken their son I think. um three-year-old son into the doctor. the ear doctor for a procedure this was. like 3 months prior to us starting to. work and this they put this son under. local some sort of local uh. anesthesia uh and the son died their kid. died uh and I found out that that was my.

editor and that that had happened to him. and uh was came in after I found that. and we're working and I then I realized. he had a picture of his son little. picture kind of under his computer that. I noticed for the first time and we're. you know I don't know him that well. um and I started asking him about his. son and we and I know I heard about this. and I'm you really sorry and I just you. know want you to know that I'm I'm I'm.

aware and if there's anything we can. talk about or you want to talk about or. not I just want I I want that to I want. to be available to you for that and we. started talking I started asking him. questions about his son and what kind of. Life his son had had and what kind of. you know young man he was at that age. and what he had experienc and we started. talking we started talking for a while. and he stopped he said you know I. haven't talked about my son like. this and and I uh realized I don't know.

that I would have had this. conversation prior to experiencing that. medicine we started talking about it and. I said well you know how are you and. your wife coping he said horribly. horribly you said we're going to grief. counseling um uh but it's not working. they gone to some like chainsaw. counseling where they go into the woods. with chainsaws and just start cutting.

trees as a way of trying to release. anger and energy I mean and axes and I. mean and group therapy and and I asked. him if he had thought about exploring. psychedelics and he said his wife is. talking about that and I said have you. heard about 5 Amo he sat up he said my. wife has been asking me about this and I. said. uh he said what's it like what do you. think and I thought about it and I said. you know um here's what I think and I.

was like you know forgive me if I'm if. I'm. overstepping he's said no I want you to. say it I said okay cuz I really didn't. know him that well I said in in my my. mind the way I'm thinking about you and. and your family if if if this is your. son right now in your mind and he's. right here and wherever you look your. son your dead son is right there and you. can't right wherever you look I said I. believe that that this medicine could.

maybe take your son and put him here for. a. minute and give you never going to it's. never going to go away but give you a. little bit of. space to maybe process something like. that in a way that you're not able to. and I stand by that um and it's advice I. would give to myself to you to anyone. that um the the only thing I think is.

that young people might I don't think. it's good to do for someone you know. much in their 20s still I would I would. encourage people to wait till their 30s. yeah just cuz I I I don't I'm not I. can't back that up scientifically it's. more of a. hunch but if someone came to me and they. were like you know 19 or 20 you know my. son I've talk talked to my son about. this and he's in his early 20s and I I. I'm very honest with him about you know.

all of this everything I try to be. honest with them about but I said I. don't think you should do this until. you're 30 yeah what do you think what do. you think I think it all I think it uh I. think it depends on life experiences so. because it is so healing so you know um. I I think if you have a kid who is I'm. not like I can't back this up either so. whatever with a grain of salt I think I. know yeah but you know I mean there's.

kids that have been through lots and. lots of sexual trauma rape and and um. and I was just had a guy in here and I'm. not going to mention his name because. this kind of conversation was offline. but. um his son you know was in an in an. accident and and uh somebody was killed. and. um and his son did this and it's it.

sounds like it healed him you know and. and so cuz he carried a lot of [ __ ]. guilt how old was his son 17 or 18 I. think and um and uh you know kind of got. him through. so you know. because you do real I mean for me just. you just you man I'll tell you like it. it changed changes your perspective so. much that you know it's like oh [ __ ]. like so and so died you know what I mean. that sucks that a short life could have.

had you know had a lot more Life to Live. died in his 20s died at 25 lot of seals. you whatever death sucks right that's. how Humanity perceives it's [ __ ]. horrible like you only get to live. once after doing the 5 Meo. DMT this [ __ ] is what sucks they're in a. better [ __ ] spot you know they're. like and you get it's almost like you. get a window or a veil's lifted and you. you see like what it's actually all.

about yeah even though you can't like. you said there's no words in the English. language to to describe it but it's a. hell of a lot better than here for yeah. I I I would agree with you like for for. someone like your friend's son I think. it could be really helpful if someone. has gone through that kind of really. [ __ ] up trauma that's sort of out of. the realm of just talk therapy is not. going to you know fix that I think what. would be important is that whoever. administers the medicine the.

toad I mean iig again for 17 year-old I. don't know but maybe um did that did he. do iigame I believe it was the I believe. it. was but that that whoever you know is. the administer the the the guide stays. on board with that person for days weeks. months helps process that so it's not. like you know at least keeps an eye on.

that on that younger mind yeah just to. make sure that like he's able to talk. about things um you know cuz I I. remember I was trying you can relate to. the idea that we don't have words in our. the in the English language right for. some of these feelings and so it's hard. to explain what you experienced and I. was talking to some about. it uh and he told me about this tribe in.

Brazil that does a lot of uh you know. iasa type psychedelics I think it's. slightly different than iasa some like. the Yamato tribes you some of these wild. tribes that have been doing psychedelics. for generations and how they have. different words words that we don't have. in our language and he and he was trying. to get me to understand how we don't. have words for so much he talked about. this word that this tribe had for the. feeling you get in your stomach when you.

hear a cliff diver jump like 100 feet or. 200 feet into the water that concussive. sound you know. that it gives you a feeling it's hard to. explain but like if you've ever heard. somebody really get punched in the face. you know with a bare fist that's a sound. that different not like a movie right. like a would a and that sound of a body. hit in the water is a stirring sound and.

there's a there's a term for that in. this language because that's important. to them let's let's remember that. feeling that you get from and and I when. I and I think it's interesting that. we're so new to this world and it's. become sort of Vogue and I know a lot of. people are doing it and they think it's. cool or you know rich people and. you know the Hamptons of New York or in. Beverly Hills are having like. psychedelic parties and all that and.

expanding their Consciousness and micro. do and. mushrooms great I don't I don't judge. that but it there is something very real. to it and particularly for people who. are going. harder and have I don't know. man that kind of trauma to dig to dig up. and to look at this [ __ ] is. it's real I think the world would be a. better place you I wish [ __ ]. politicians would use it but um but uh.

have you ever heard anything have you. ever heard anything bad coming from. it no no and I looked it up. um I think I think I heard somebody. died there was a do no I remember there. was a doctor or a shaman who I think in. Mex Meo this is all you know. searchable was putting people under and. like.

molesting right and but that was you. know one person he was busted that cuz I. you know searched it all like dark side. downside uh addiction deaths and ve very. very little uh I couldn't find anything. directly related but I remember this one. story of some some you know Shaman who. was um putting people under and like you. know doing that but I don't know I don't.

I haven't heard much I just have you. yeah I just heard this last week I had. uh actually it was the guys that got me. that got me into this that like they. didn't like talk me into they shared. their experience on how the how it. helped them and I it it it I was like I. got to do this but they came up uh we. went to an event uh together. we were all talking about psychedelics. and um they I guess there's somebody.

that I haven't looked into this yet but. apparently it's there's there's. something out there on it this guy did. it and seems to have experienced a. 10-year time period in within 30 minutes. hian or Meo Meo okay and. had I don't know I like I said I didn't. get any I didn't have like a storyline. or anything when I did it we just it. doesn't sound like you did either but.

but he he had built a relationship had a. kid like all this [ __ ] happened in his. mind in 30 minutes that was 10 years. worth of time and then when he came out. of the of the of the experience only 30. minutes had passed and he had like he. still miss is like whoever he met that. was in that experience because he had. built a 10-year relationship with those.

with those people and so all he wants to. do wow is that [ __ ] wild crazy I I. know never heard that that's a that's a. movie man that's like cuz there's like a. Eternal Sunshine of the spot Spotless. Mind on if you ever saw that film Jim. car it's a good movie where he wants to. erase part of his brain to get a girl. out of his mind that's like just you. know bad. relationship but see that's fascinating. to me and.

and I can totally see how that could. happen I think that um one of the things. like that five Meo did for me was just. that kind of what's the adage that like. we use 2% of our brain or you know and I. I it's like to me I've I've made the. analogy to people like do you want to. understand a little bit about what it's. like think about your dreams and when. you wake up from a dream and you've had. some insane dream that you're speaking. languages and your mother is there but.

her head is an ostrich head and your you. know son is like a stock broker and he's. making deals but he's only two and. you're like where the [ __ ] did that come. from what how did my brain what you know. I I shut down part of my brain to sleep. and something else woke up right and and. as a writer I can relate um to that. feeling of accessing parts of your your.

brain right that you just can't get to. you know sitting here talking and I've. had that experience many times I don't. know if you've had it writing but where. you serly sit down and things start. coming out of you and you you look you. think that you know uh um 15 minutes. have gone by and you look up in 3 hours. have gone by and you don't remember it. and you look down you've written 10. pages but you've accessed something that. you can't get to normally and they call.

you know Flow State or you know some. sort of optimal. creative like Rogan thinks that that. this state is an actual entity like an. external like Goblin that comes in and. enters you right which then there's this. guy Steve pressfield who I like who's. like a guru for writers and and and he. talks about this too like that the being. able to. access truly access aspects of your mind. that you normally just can't get to.

right so that 5 Meo can put you in this. state where it just shuts down your. default Network so everything that we. normally think of like oh I'm wearing a. sweater you're wearing a sweater I'm. wearing pants you're wearing pants. carpet here all your things that are up. on the wall That's all our rational bre. turn all that [ __ ] off and the next. thing you know you've created 10 years. of a life and you you really think. you've got a son and a wife it's crazy.

and apparently still has feelings but. I'll tell you like he's mourning his. child that never existed yeah yep. wow yep maybe tapped into another life. who the hell knows but uh you know it. did it also another thing that like it. did is it set me down it this stuff just. sent me down a rabbit hole have you ever. read the four agreements by Don Miguel. Ruiz no I've heard of it you got tell me. give me like the basically I'm going to.

butcher it so but um I mean lots of. people read this some people read it. every I think Tom Brady reads it every. year but it it talks a lot about like. it's it's Four Agreements that you make. with yourself and I can't even I haven't. read it in years so I don't know them. all off top my head but it kind of talks. about like. I don't want to make this book sound. like something it's not but one thing. that it does do is it talks about how. we've all been.

indoctrinated but it doesn't do it in. like a conspiracy is [ __ ] way it's. just the way it is and um and a lot of. people read this after psychedelics and. it's it's when you read it you're like. oh yeah like okay like yeah this is this. is true and in between that and and kind. of and and what I experienced through. psychedelics and how how healing it is. and how it's [ __ ] illegal here why I. don't know it's helping so many people.

with addiction and Trauma FDA baby yeah. and it sent me down this Rabbit Hole to. think that ev Everything we know and. have been told is a [ __ ] lie and I do. believe that um I do want to ask you. about something did we go to the Moon. pardon me did we go to the Moon I don't. know man I wasn't there I wasn't there I. I I know about the. picture Capricorn 1 was a movie when I.

was a kid that was you know about fact. that you know the the theory that we. never did I don't know man I I like to. think that we did because that's how I. was raised and if that didn't happen. then I got to really unpack a whole. bunch of other [ __ ] but I don't know I. can tell you I never went to the moon. what about the Stanley kubric stuff if. you looked in into that which stuff he. did he did he staged it he filmed it. yeah that's Capricorn one that's the. movie that's what it is yeah I.

mean I don't know man damn I don't know. I love this subject I know I don't. I I'm going to assume we did yeah but I. wasn't there yeah I just want to believe. we did me too. um I don't know though there's some. pretty compelling evidence yeah people. are full of [ __ ] and and there's there's.

a lot of reasons that we would have lied. and governments are horrific and. governments will do things that we can't. believe to advance agendas and I've seen. all of this and uh I've gotten a front. row seat to some really [ __ ] up [ __ ]. um that that our governments do and and. when I was young I didn't know about it. and I didn't think about it and I. thought there were good guys and bad. guys and I believed our leaders when.

they said that we were the good guys and. they're the bad guys and not always the. case yeah yeah um you know I did just. come back from Israel uh last week how. was it dude it's [ __ ] up you know. I I I I. was I it's I was 2 weeks before I went. to Israel I was in New York and I was.

going to have lunch with a friend of. mine and she brought a friend of hers. and who I didn't know and during the. course of the. meal Israel came up and she started. ripping into the Israelis and [ __ ] the. Israelis and [ __ ] Zionism and she's. looking at me she's really getting mad. and I'm like I'm curious are are you are. you Arab are you Muslim she said I'm. Palestinian. and I said okay. um I could imagine this is a really. [ __ ] hard time she goes yeah it is.

and I said I get it and she starts. ripping as you they all need to [ __ ]. go and [ __ ] okay okay I hear you you I'm. curious how do you. process the Nova music festival and what. happened you know 300 Israelis were. killed at the music festival and she. looked at me and she had this look in. her eye I haven't seen I don't know ever. and she said I thought it was [ __ ]. hilarious I loved. it and the feeling I had was like.

sickness anger confusion like I'm. looking into the eyes of this. 30-year-old. girl and I said I got to go I said I'm. going to leave I said look said I just. want you to know I don't agree with. anything youve said but my pulse was. going like I was I didn't even know what. I felt other than I had to get out of. there walk. away and then I decided to go the next. week to Israel I wanted to see it. and I wanted to just see it for myself.

and and I went to that side of that. festival and I went to one of the. kutes um that was attacked and I wanted. to go into Gaza asked if we could go in. it was told couldn't go in it wasn't. safe um we got close and could see in to. that world the Gaza Strip you know. behind the. wall and I just spent I was there for 5. days and I really just tried. to to see it you know cuz we read about.

it we see it on our computers we. certainly get into our you know whatever. social media feeds were had all this I. wanted to see it and I think my my. biggest takeaway is. um as like simple as this sounds is that. these people [ __ ] hate each. other I mean hate each other I've never. seen that kind of hatred um I remember.

when I was in Iraq with Team five and we. were driving through towns people would. look at us we'd be in those RG trucks MH. can't remember what they were called. like not the H and those trucks looking. out and they'd be looking in with this. look that felt I hadn't seen that look a. lot you know what I'm talking about like. die but in when I was in isra. the anger and fear was so. palpable and I know it's on the other.

side. and I don't know man like I just think. like what when my mind starts going this. okay Israel did this [ __ ] Palestinians. did this [ __ ] it's been going back and. forth since 1941 or whenever the you. know 1907 depending on how far whatever. however far back you want to go cuz I've. tried to go back and well okay it was. their fault no it was their fault and. the English gave it to the Israelis and. that [ __ ] everything up and then World.

War and it's this Rubik's Cube that you. never solve bottom line is like they. [ __ ] hate each other they cannot work. it out like it's like you know two PE. kids that are fighting they just can't. stop and they're never going to stop and. and I came out of there with the sense. of and and and looking into so many. Israelis I met the the energy you get is. please we need help right and yes.

they're they're horrific what what's. happening over there right these kids. dying and and in Gaza and these innocent. people dying and the horrific what. happen it's it's horrific and I'm not. like at this point I don't know what to. justify and who's right and who's wrong. at this point it's just if it's going to. stop they need help that was my take. they need someone to come in and say you. go over the [ __ ] here you go over the. [ __ ] here stop yeah and and I hope that.

can happen it's a very complicated. situation yeah it's super complicated. but at the end of the day if you just. look at it just just. practically they they can't they can't. fix it without other people in in my. opinion getting involved it's like there. there has to be help from us there has. to be help from Saudi Arabia from UAE. from catar from Egypt from Jordan like.

they got to help Europe's got to. help cuz they can't [ __ ] figure it. out yeah that was what I got and it's. it's really [ __ ] sad to me and how. much time did you spend over there was. there for 5 days 5 days yeah. and. and you know it I recommend for people. to go there if they want to.

understand what it really feels like and. get a better sense maybe a deeper. sense of just how dark and complex the. problem is um. so I recommend going over there damn. damn how long ago was that I got back. like 10 days ago oh man so this is fresh. yeah and you know brutal absolutely. brutal to go tour um the kutes you know.

and the tour that I had was a um you. know young 28-year-old guy whose brother. was killed mother was kidnapped um they. they've kept the kabot exactly as it was. October 7th so the blood's all over the. place and the glass and the kids shoes. and you know baby shoes and you know. babies were taken and you know. absolutely horrific um and and you know. like you seeing that video of Murphy and.

Deets uh and you know using that I mean. you can't go there without getting. activated and then you go to the music. festival and um you know it's [ __ ] it. man [ __ ] it game on yeah okay you want. you're going to do this game on you. support that. right and I do but then you start you. know understanding the pain on the other. side and you just your head starts to. explode yeah and and that's why I've.

come to the conclusion like they can't. they. need referees yeah it's like the. nastiest hockey fight you've ever seen. in your [ __ ] life with no refs yeah. you know and people are bringing guns. onto the ice and knives onto the ice and. and no one's there to stop it. yeah it's I've been hesitant to to to. cover the subject cuz it's so [ __ ]. complicated it's just.

it's well if you if you look backwards. it's really complicated well you did. that well you did that well you did that. well you did that okay that's never. going to get unpacked in my opinion. looking. forward big big brother issue like you. know from 40,000 fet someone has to step. in and organize a large group effort to. stop this. [ __ ] so that's what I hope happens yeah.

me too having cuz it sucks me too it. sucks for everyone the world is a [ __ ]. up Place yeah but there's some good some. good stories. too well let's move into what you're. doing now American Prime Evil yeah how. did that how did uh that come across. right primeval that's the new show um. did you ever see Jeremiah Johnson when. you were a kid yeah so when I was a kid. that Robert Redford played this.

Wilderness guy who went out into the C. to the went out west from the city and. like had to learn how to survive and you. know ended up marrying an Indian woman. and a kid and he was ended up first he. was totally inapt and couldn't function. and Indians wouldn't even waste an arrow. on him cuz he was so. um he was you know so. useless in such a non-threat and by the. end he was a great warrior and he had. the respect of multiple trib and that. was one of my favorite movies as a kid.

and that was like something like that. got me going and wanting to to make. movies and tell stories and stuff and I. always kind of wanted to do something. like that you know an adventure story. not like a a Western in the traditional. sense and I like westerns like what. casting the San's kid was one of my. favorite or The Unforgiven um I loved uh. the Cowboys some of John Wayne's earlier. I loved all those movies but I kind of. wanted to do something that was a little.

more like raw and just pure survival and. didn't have like towns with saloons and. whouses and you know sheriffs and people. D I wanted like to be up in the. mountains with the. Savages and um so I got a friend this. guy Mark L Smith who wrote the Revenant. did you see the Revenant yeah and and I. love that and I'm like hey man let's. let's go back into this world and he. also came to my office and I have a a. collection of axes in my office I think.

you'd let you'd approve of it and I. pulled out this ice axe and I walked up. to him and I go I just put the axe in. his lap I said let's do a show that's. this and I said let's just Channel this. this is a and he smiled he said okay and. he wrote it and it's this kind of Epic. Saga setting 18 19. 57 in this corner of America it's um. South Western Wyoming and Southeastern.

Utah it's that intersection we in 1857. it was [ __ ] wild there was no. civilization but it was kind of the last. one of the last areas that were really. wild in America and you know there were. multiple Native American tribes there. were the Mormons who were setting up in. Salt Lake City and they were violent has. had a real violent side to him cuz. they'd been [ __ ] over from New York to. Georgia to Illinois where their Leader.

Joseph Smith was killed so this dude. Brigham Young flees West with 2,000. Mormons and sets up his last stand in. Salt Lake City thinking no one's ever. going to come and he starts growing the. Mormon church and he builds his army to. defend so he's out there the go US. Government sending the Army to [ __ ] with. the Mormons and get them out cuz briam. Young's trying to turn Utah true this is. true into a Utah State Utah wasn't a. state it was a territory and Bri's like.

all right we'll take it this will be a. Mormon State Utah and it was um. President Buchanan who preceded Lincoln. who's like yeah no you're not doing that. bro you're not doing that so he's. sending the Army out there to get the. Mormons out so they're fighting all the. Indians are fighting and you've got all. these trappers who are just you know. hunting TR trapping bear and other pelts. so it's just a [ __ ] Savage. place and our show follows a woman who's.

got a a handicapped son who's just. trying to get through that land to. California to find the kids dad so you. think she's got a secret and the story. is her journey through that part of. America damn and it gets nasty it looks. like it it looks nasty I started is. it's it's it's did we send you the shows. you sent them to me all right good we'll. sit down and take a peek CU they get and.

it's the organizing uh event is is worth. anybody checking out that it's an very. underreported mass murder arguably the. first mass killing in American history. that it's called the Morman Meadows. Massacre and it happened in. 1857 and a group of Pioneers um called. the fenter party that were going from. Arkansas to California had to move. through um Mormon land Utah land to get.

to California but in 1857 the Mormons. had basically issued a proclamation. saying that no one can come through our. land without a permit from Governor. bringham young young they done this. because they were getting so. disrespected by the Pioneers who would. come through and be like hey bro can I. have some some of your wives or maybe. I'll just take one of your wives and. they'd steal women Mormons were. polygamist and they all had 10 or 15. wives which was problematic but they.

these Pioneers would come through and. harass the Mormons rape women kill. cattle they'd let their cattle graze on. the Mormon's crops so there's all this. Mutual. disrespect so by the time this party. came through without a permit the. Mormons warned them off and said you got. to go back you got to go around which. would add like two weeks to the journey. and these Pioneers were like [ __ ] you. we're not going around so the Mormons. came back and killed all of them so a.

group of Mormons and what was kind of. [ __ ] up is they dressed up as pyute. which was a tribe out there Indians they. dressed up as the Indians and actually. brought a couple of Indians with them so. that any Witnesses would think it was an. Indian murder and it was really a Mormon. murder uh it was a killing done by. Mormons and they killed about. 165 of these Pioneers men women and. children and really horrific moment in. the history of the Mormon Church um and.

just a horrible moment in general and. that's kind of what we use is like the. inciting incident what we call it where. you know the moment that kicks something. off so the show's kind of going along. and you don't realize it's going to hit. you and then the Mormons mental Massacre. kind of comes at you hard um and that. that's the event and so I was intered. like going to Utah meeting the different. Mormons that were historians of this.

moment in time and getting them to talk. about because it's a dark moment in. Mormon history which I never knew about. until you got him to talk about it yeah. and there was one. guy uh one one Mormon wrote a book. called The Meadows Massacre and he took. me to the site and he wrote it because. there's a monument in Utah now where the. massacre took place and the the Mormons. built the monument to all the folks who. were. killed and he his book it's really.

interesting because it it it's about. this crime this horrible moment Mormon. history and and and what he does in the. book and what he said to me was. okay as a Mormon if you if you want to. show this moment in our history you have. every right to do it it happened but I. would ask going to read my book and do. your research and at least understand. how it got to that point right cuz you. know like any moment of of violence if.

you if you backtrack it and think well. which kind of what's so tricky about the. Israel situation well you try to unpack. it it just you know and get to the roots. very hard and the case of Meadows masaco. what this guy what the book did well is. it sort of let you understand how things. got so tense that this 145 person. Massacre could occur and I thought that. was really kind of interesting in in.

learning about that and learning about. American history and the the continual. line of violence that's you know plagued. our planet but certainly played our. plagued our country you start to. understand man and you know our human. nature and why we're so inclined to. violence and and that's sort of a theme. of the show and then one thing so. interesting that saved the Mormon Church.

arguably is that in 1857 the Army was. ready to come in big numbers and just. [ __ ] kill the Mormons and that would. have been no Mormon church there'd be no. BYU there'd be no Salt Lake City as we. know it would have been over and that. would have been a great act of violence. but the Civil War was just po been off. at that moment in 1857 1858 so Buchanan. and then Lincoln had to pull all the. troops away from Brigham Young and they.

were about to [ __ ] get him. right civil war ah we need these troops. back east no [ __ ] and that saved Bram. young the Civil War saved the Mormon. Church wow I had no idea interesting. that is where didd you film it uh in uh. Santa Fe. in Santa Fe uh on location I wanted to. do a film with no sound stages I was. like let's go out there let's go up on.

the mountain let's shoot in the weather. let's let's [ __ ] sh let's make a. survival show that's what I asked for. and that was maybe one of the stupider. things I've ever asked for CU we're up. there for 135 days on the mountain. through the winter through the summer. you know uh snowstorm rainstorms. lightning strikes [ __ ] rattlesnakes. we' to have rattlesnake Wranglers. cruising through the set you know.

constantly with and they'd find the. little ones which I didn't understand. those are the real Dangerous Ones did. you know this the little rattlesnakes. the younger and smaller the rattlesnake. the bigger the Venom load so you see a. big rattlesnake you don't want to mess. with it you see a little Ratt of snake. everybody clears out no [ __ ] I didn't. know that snakes our actor broke his leg. we had to film around that stuntman got. all [ __ ] up um it was it was a wild.

shoot and I'm like you asked for it you. got it but um a good challenge a really. good challenge man it looks the preview. is awesome and uh like it's it looks. super realistic and uh I'm sure it's. going to crush it on Netflix it's on. Netflix on Netflix on uh I think January. 9th yeah January. 9th yeah well Peter we're wrapping up. the interview but um you're a good dude.

man so are you appreciate it thank you. for opening up about your uh about. everything same to you thanks for. sharing the story of your buddy oh. it's he lives on so he was an amazing. dude but um but uh man we covered a lot. of ground there. and you thought you didn't have it in. you here we are I wasn't sure but uh hey. it was glad to see you again and uh best.

of luck with the film appreciate. [Music]. it no matter where you're watching sha. Ryan Show from if you get anything out. of this please like com comment. subscribe and most importantly share. this everywhere you possibly can and if. you're feeling extra generous please.

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