MrBallen - Navy SEAL Turned Content Creator | SRS #104

[Music]. Mr Ballin AKA John allenn Allen welcome. to the show man thank you for having me. man I I love your show I've been. watching this for years you're you're. killing it this is amazing I appreciate. it I appreciate it um man it's been I've. been watching you we connected in what. 2020 it was 2020 and you were heading up. a nonprofit Elite meet then. communication fell off somehow obviously.

you were busy cuz I checked about 6. months later and it and you have 2. million plus whatever it was YouTube. Subs completely different than anything. anybody else has done coming out of the. SEAL Teams and uh it was just it's it. was really cool to see and so it's it's. almost like a new version of you now you. know is is is is what I feel like this. is and it's it's I'm excited man it's. been a long time coming and uh I'm. really happy to have you in the chair.

and honored and um let's get into your. backstory yeah dude I I uh I am. genuinely honored to be here because. there are some Legends you've had on the. show that like certainly in my time in. the military like you know referencing. some of your guests like DJ Shipley like. that was a guy when I was in the SEAL. Teams you're like oh wow like that guy's. the guy he's like been on all the cool. missions and so to hear his backstory on. your show was like amazing and uh yeah. no I've been watching your show closely. and yeah we connected in 2020 and that.

was like really right before I started. like being Mr Ballin and my God it's. just been a whirlwind of things that we. talked about over breakfast this morning. and I'm sure we'll get into today but. absolutely wild to be here man well. thank you thank you so let me uh start. off with an introduction. here so John Allen aka Mr Balin Mr. Ballin excuse me American internet. personality former United States Navy. SEAL host of Mr Ballin podcast strange. dark in mysterious stories 2023 released.

Mr ballin's medical Mysteries founder of. Mr Ballin Foundation Mr volum Foundation. was nominated for the Creator for social. good award congratulations that's. amazing co-founder of Ballin Studios. with Nick. witters awesome dude Nick's the man um. happy to be connected with him what a. what a cool guy super cool and uh I love. your guys's backstory as well yeah.

husband to your high school sweetheart. Amanda Allen married almost 11 years and. father to three. kids congratulations that's amazing over. 8 million subscribers on the platform. nominated for YouTube streaming Awards. and the creator of the Year breakout. Creator and podcast categories received. the most nominations for first time. nominee incredible it's crazy to hear. all this but yeah that's that's all true. and all good.

yeah that's all true and all good but uh. quite the career and wow dude you're. your storytelling career is just I've. never seen a rocket ship like that. before that is very cool so yeah it's. been wild man can't wait to dive into. all aspects of your backstory but before. we do that couple of things one of them. is I got a patreon account they are. obviously our top supporters and have.

helped me turn this into what it is. today they're the reason I get to sit. here and interview you so I give them a. question every every episode and this is. from Dar swey was there ever a story. that you were telling that actually made. your skin crawl oh. man there was one about and I can't. remember the names because there's been. so many stories but this is a very. famous story.

uh there was this guy who was this he's. a teenager who kind of lost his mind and. he wound up killing somebody which is. bad that's obviously very bad but the. story is that when he was on the Run he. wound up finding his way into this. family's house and he burrowed his way. into their walls and lived in their. walls for like I think a year or two. before he was finally found and when he. was found get this we have the the. father who's got three young girls I. think in the house he opens up one of. their closets cuz he keeps hearing. strange sounds in the closet cuz of. where this guy was behind the wall and.

he opens it up and standing in the. closet was this teenager who was wearing. I think his wife's dress or something. and he was carrying a hatchet and he's. like in the man's house and he discovers. this burrow hole into his walls that had. been there for like a year and so the. father escapes with his kids and this. guy ends up getting arrested or whatever. I think his name is like Robert. something or other I can find it and we. can link it somewhere but basically the. psychopath like Hatchet wielding Maniac. was living in this family's walls for. like three years.

whoa might have been a year but it was a. long enough time to you're like whoa so. wow so there's another question it's a. really long question so I'm not going to. read the whole thing but basically it's. asking is this is everything 100% real I. mean some of your stories are really. they're outlandish they're hard to. believe are they and and I believe I've. heard you say they're fact checked and. you have researchers and it's all legit. so the stories we find are they're. rooted in reality I think that the the.

parts that are I guess the gray area are. like people will come up with they'll. have some experience like it's their own. personal experience about what they what. what happened to them take for example. um famously there's the uh the. Skinwalker Ranch it's a place out in in. Utah now I'm forgetting where it is but. it's a very famous paranormal hot spot. and there are loads of stories that are. like fact checked in the sense that you. know multiple PE multiple people. witnessed something happen happening on. this property property but like there.

isn't actually a way to fact check if it. really happened you have someone's. perspective about what they experienced. and so we'll get people's perspectives. and we'll present the story through. their perspective but we're not trying. to convince you that what they did was. Absolut like that happened it's more. like this is really what somebody. experienced and here's what they said. here's what they saw so it's more like. it's up to you to interpret for those. types of stories but the bulk of the. stories are like this is what happened. yeah however they are those povs where.

we're kind of relying on someone's. perspective which we have no way of. knowing if it's true it feels credible. yeah but we don't know I get it I get it. interesting I get to interview the owner. of Skinwalker yeah that's actually why I. brought it up I thought that you had. interviewed somebody a Skinwalker Ranch. really cool guy Brandon Fugal but um but. moving on before we dive in everybody. gets a gift even you John and thank you. man probably the only reason you're here. that is it's all good I don't.

things actually really wanted so I. actually we came with a gift for you as. well so we have this is from original. line of merch we did it's it's our most. popular item it's a crew neck that we. don't really make anymore at least not. that version so this is like the best. item we actually sold it's just a simple. crew neck good material hope you like it. dude so this is in the vault this in the. vault this is the OG perfect it's it's a. nice material it's real nice it's. getting framed there you go.

I'm going to have you sign it it's going. in the SRS Museum nice thank you yeah. hell yeah but um all right let's dig in. so we're going to go through everything. we're going to go through your childhood. your military career your transition out. a big thing I like to cover is um you. know there's a lot of vets struggling. these days always has been especially. when it comes to reintegrating into. society yeah and uh into civilian. society and so uh I love talking about. the transition piece I think it brings a.

lot of Hope and then and then something. that I'm really excited about and I'm. sure you are too is to dive into the. Journey of what you're doing now and how. you reinvented yourself yeah into Mr. Ballin so let's just start at childhood. where did you grow. up uh so I grew up in quiny. Massachusetts it's this bluecar town. that's just south of Boston maybe 10. minutes. south um fiercely Irish fiercely. Catholic.

um very I said blue collar very blue. collar like people are proud you know to. be kind of salt of the earth people. Fierce Red Sox following like New. England Sports were so important to my. upbringing I mean baseball games. football games basketball games that was. so. important um but you know it's funny I. uh my family my my two sisters and my. mother and father they're like super. gifted writers and storytellers like my. my mother was a she was a radio host in.

Maine um and where at Maine like. um it's it's some random part of Maine. that I'm now forgetting it's near South. Paris Maine and then now I'm forgetting. the name of the town but it's a small. local radio station and she was a. journalist in Maine and then she met my. dad who was a journalist in. Boston and like my dad you know he's. he's won a Pitzer prize which is like. the top prize in journalism and my my. older sister has won two Pulitzer prizes. as well in journalism and my younger. sister is a like she's about to get her.

PhD she's defending it in uh in April. she works out of a Harvard lab she's a. scientist you know I have these. brilliant people in my family but in my. upbringing I was like the idiot because. I just not not they didn't treat me that. way but I just I didn't I didn't want to. be like my family I didn't want to be. like a nerd I guess it very lame of me. as a young kid to feel this way but I I. think I I rebelled essentially against. my family growing up I didn't want to. follow the get good grades go you know.

go to college and do all that I kind of. just wanted to like have fun with my. friends um but ironically it turned out. later in my life I would end up becoming. a Storyteller as well just like my. family so I guess it comes full circle. in that way but interesting but yeah no. I is just a good happy upbringing in. quiny and sports were a big deal I. played baseball growing up and I ended. up uh graduating high school barely I. just didn't go to school I didn't really. apply myself um what were you into Why. didn't why why were you not into school.

at all you know there's a there's a. culture of like I don't know how to put. it so so street fighting is a big thing. in quinsey to give you a sense of what. it's like living in Quincy so when I was. growing up I mean there were scheduled. fights between like teenagers like to. prove you know who was tougher or. whatever and so there was always this. feeling of like everyone's trying to. best the other person and like. everyone's trying to get the one up on. somebody else like really physical.

violence was a big part of my upbringing. I mean fighting was a part of it like. street fighting whoa so hold on so. you're are we talking like UFC type like. like. yeah who would who would do the. scheduling scheduled as in like dude. 3:00 behind the dumpster we're going to. fight like that kind I mean was it like. a beef or was it you know a lot of times. it was perceived beef it was not real. stuff I think that a lot of the guys I. grew up around they wanted to prove them. M themselves and a way you did that was.

beating somebody up or getting beat up. and like you know sucking it up and. taking it on the chin kind of thing but. so I was I was around people and I was a. part of the scene of people that were. like much more invested in you know fist. to cuffs than uh than school workor and. I think it honestly really kind of. derailed my my you know it's a large. reason why I didn't do well in school is. I was much more focused on being tough. and like fitting with my friends and.

being popular and like that's What. mattered to me what age did that. start like 12 12 like 12 years old is. when you're introduced to like the. roughness of quiny what what is your. most memorable street fight oh I got the. one I have one that I I told this story. uh several times and it gets it gets a. couple of laughs it's pretty funny cuz I. get my anyway I'll tell you the story so. uh my sophomore year of high school I. had this study period in my schedule.

that I just was in this classroom with. random students through you know from. every grade and we just like sat there. and did our homework or whatever for 45. minutes and uh there was this girl who. sat next to me who was just some girl I. mean she was friends with my sister who. was older than me you know who was at. school with me she was a senior I'm a. sophomore so she's friends with my. sister but I didn't really I didn't know. her too well but I I knew she was my. sister's friend and so I just sat next. to her and you know there was nothing. going on between us whatsoever we're not. dating we're not flirting it's it's.

nothing it's just we're sitting next to. each other because we have this Mutual. Connection in my sister well somehow or. another it got out that I was sitting. next to this girl in my study period and. it got back to her boyfriend who was. very upset about this and instead of. like coming to me and being like why. were you doing that or were you doing. that I just got a phone call from like. three other people saying Paul wants to. fight you but what you're doing with. with his girlfriend and instead of me. being like why I was like all right. let's do this thing and so it got.

scheduled for uh so we we did this thing. in quinsey called the the Powderpuff. game and it's like girls play flag. football on the day before Thanksgiving. and so our high school was North quinsey. High School and our rival high school. was quiny high school equal size schools. similar cultures and the Powderpuff game. which is again the day before. Thanksgiving was when kids from quinsey. high school and North quinsey High. School also met up to fight each other. so you have this Powderpuff game and. it's a known day for all these big. fights between the two rival schools and.

even though Paul and I were not from. rival schools it became like the main. card of of this particular Powderpuff. day of fights was like John and Paul are. going to have this big fight over over. what's happening with his girlfriend and. uh so anyways in the leadup to this this. is weeks out this has been scheduled in. like October for a Thanksgiving Day. fight and you know in the leadup to it I. was so cocky about how this fight was. going to go Paul mind you is. significantly bigger than me he's older.

than me he's the captain of the hockey. team the dude's a beast okay and I'm. like a twig and I and I'm around other. guys my friends who are genuinely tough. who can hold their own and are like. scary dudes I was around them but I. wasn't one of them I was kind of like. The Fringe guy that was like kind of. part of the group but I just I I adopted. this mentality of I'm G to beat Paul I'm. going to beat the out of Paul like. that's what's going to happen you know. and so that attitude I had began to get. noticed in school and people bought it.

they're like oh John's like hanging out. with these guys he's got to be pretty. tough like he's going to beat Paul up. and people began coming up to me being. like hey dude like be easy on Paul like. we need him for the hockey team like. he's he's he's the star player don't. hurt him and I'm like I'll try not to. hurt. him so so the day finally actually it's. funny like in the in the week leading up. to it I started getting real nervous. about this fight no one knew that I was. nervous but I'm real nervous and I. remember going into my basement at my. mom's house and Shadow Boxing like a. foldup chair getting ready for this.

fight it was so dumb so I I end up on. the day I I I go to the field after. school where this fight's going to. happen and also where the Powder Puff. Games going on there's hundreds of kids. here and it's in the middle of the. forest this is an unsanctioned sporting. event so it's like this hidden place in. the middle of the woods where the kids. hang out and everybody knew like John. and Paul are going to fight and so I get. there and I roll to this place with at. least 50 people in my posi just yeah. you're going to kill him John like let's. go and so I'm I'm at the field with with. with my buddies waiting for this fight.

to start and it was scheduled for like. 3:30 or something 3:30 comes around and. Paul hasn't shown up and I begin just. talking Paul to anyone who will listen. like this guy's pathetic he's scared of. me he's not even going to show up this. guy's a joke and then like 30 minutes. later Paul shows up with one person with. him no posy hops out of his car and. begins walking up the hill to me and. everyone's like oh he's here he's here. and I'm like getting ready you know and. I'm standing up on this hill looking at. him he's as he's coming up to me and I. have this F line that I say he's like.

right he's he's like maybe 10 ft away. and I'm like while we're young mother. like as if it had taken him so long to. get here and then he beats the sh out of. me didn't get a swing in he had me on. the ground knocked out in like 5 seconds. and I like come too and I'm looking. around and everyone's surrounding me. like you got knocked the out so it. didn't go well and I would say that that. fight so many people were there and saw. it that it became like a meme about. me young John like it was this whole.

horrible thing uh but it humbled me in a. pretty huge way and I would say that. that's when I began to think that street. fighting might not be my thing maybe I. should do something else with my life so. I'll become a Navy SEAL yeah yeah wow. how old were you 16 16 yeah that was a. humbling experience I'll bet that was a. humbling experience did you get in any. more fights after that one nothing. scheduled nothing scheduled yeah know I. think at that point I realized that. maybe my fistu game was not as good as I. thought it was I'll just defend myself. from now on exactly but uh wow what so I.

mean your parents. are renowned journalists yep and they're. probably not used to to this I was like. such an anomaly within my family I mean. like my family are so you know by the. books if you will like get good grades. got good jobs respected in their careers. and there was no reason that I wouldn't. have learned to be that way as well and. but instead they have this kid who's.

just like gone off the rails and is. getting in fights and getting his kicked. and just you know you know breaking. curfew every night and just kind of. being like that trouble teenager yeah um. and I'm sure that I pissed my family off. like Matt I was like the most. insufferable teenager ever um mostly. because I just believed that I was just. better than everybody and that I I don't. need school I don't need any of this. like I'm just so cool I can do whatever. I want um it really wasn't until I. actually went to College believe it or. not even though I barely graduated I you.

know my mom who's an amazing writer uh. wrote my college essay because I wasn't. doing the application I wasn't doing. anything and just being a good mom she's. like okay fine I'll write your essay. because you're not going to do it and. she wrote this beautiful essay that I. actually just read the other day it's. about my childhood best friend who. passed away but it's an amazing story. and so I sent it off to the school UMass. Amherst and my grades were abysmal I. should not have gotten into the school. and the school contacted me to say your. grades are not really what we're looking.

for but that essay was something else. you're in and so I got accepted to the. school on the strength of my mother's. essay and immediately failed out of the. school like immediately I got in trouble. so quickly I was I was in a riot at this. in one semester there was a riot that I. was a part of a riot about so it was. just so dumb so here here are the things. I did in college in one semester I've. only been in college for a few months I. just didn't go to class and when people. say that you think oh they probably. missed a couple couple classes I mean I. didn't go to class I don't know how I.

thought I would ever pass a course by. never attending one but I I didn't go to. class I I got in trouble constantly in. the dorm but it was always like little. things like noise violations or you know. being slightly disrespectful to somebody. who then reported it little things that. were made me look like a jerk but I had. so many that at some point it has to get. reported to the dean when someone has 30. plus violations and I had 30 plus. violations and so on the day that my.

grades came out and I've been lying to. my family saying oh getting all A's. killing it A's and B's doing so good the. grades came out and it was like your son. has a 1.016 GPA which is a series of fs. and I think 2DS and the 2DS should have. been FS it was the teacher saying I'm. not giving you an F so you don't have to. repeat the course um I also was kicked. out of the dorm and was told if you're. going to stay at the school which seems. questionable to begin with you can't be. in the dorms anymore because you have 30. plus violations you have to live off.

campus and my family couldn't afford to. just pay for me to go live off campus. not to mention I clearly am not capable. of being an adult and then on top of all. that at the same time what I was. beginning to learn at this exact moment. when we're meeting with the dean was. there was this riot at um Amherst that. happened a couple days earlier that I. thought was you know no big deal I was. just part of just part of it whatever uh. our football team so UMass amorist has a. division one football team but it's. division one daa which means it's kind. of like in a tear down from like the big.

time schools and so as a result people. are very invested in the um football. team but it's more it's it's a smaller. audience I suppose like no one's going. to UMass Amherst because they're like I. just want to support the football team. that doesn't really happen but you have. people going to the University of Texas. to do that because that's a big time. program but UMass ammer is not that. however in my freshman year our football. team just dominated they outperformed. better than anyone thought they would. and they made made it into like a big. bow game or something I forget what it.

was but no one really knew but. apparently our football team was really. good and they got into this bowl game. and it wasn't even at ums it was in New. York where this game was happening and. it was a good game and the team lost our. team lost ums lost this bowl game and it. was aired on the UMass Amherst like. local TV so all the students could watch. it and again no one really cares about. the football team but for some reason it. was like I think we should Riot now that. our team lost.

and so there's this part of UMass. Amherst uh it's an area on campus called. Southwest there's I think there's five. parts of the campus it's a huge school. and if you look it up the most the most. densely populated place in the entire. country in the United States is the. Southwest area of UMass Amherst because. they have these high-rise dorms that are. 25 stories tall and they pack students. into these dorms I mean you are on top. of each other there's so many people in. this area and there's all these rise. apartments I mean it's a mini little.

city in the middle of Western. Massachusetts and uh everybody in. Southwest has this reputation for being. like it's the party spot of you Matt. Amhurst and so people that want to go. live in Southwest they want to go party. and so you have all these kids who are. all riled up they have no parental. supervision our football team has lost. it's 8:00 at night and it was just like. everybody just began going outside for. no reason we're all just standing around. in the lot like we should do something. and the thousands of people are out here. and suddenly this kid he climbs up on.

the cafeteria where there's this awning. that kind of looked out into the. courtyard in front of all these. high-rise buildings so the the the. dining hall he climbs up and everyone's. like oh what's he going to do and he. goes put this on YouTube and he runs and. jumps off of the awning it's like 20 ft. up and he's expecting the crowd to catch. him and they don't and he just shatters. his legs just hits the ground and you. see him just crumple and we all just. began cheering like yeah and then the. riot ensued and it was just like chaos. people just be like breaking stuff and. running around and in like an hour they.

had riot police on Horseback hundreds of. them surrounding Southwest firing tear. gas and rubber bullets inside all the. all the normal kids went inside their. dorms they're like this is not a good. time to be out here I'm like put my. shirt around my face to protect against. tear gas I'm completely sober by the way. completely sober I'm like I'm staying. I'm not missing this I'm staying out but. they had cameras recording everything. and so on the on the day that I the. grades have come out I'm getting booted.

from the dorm people began getting. expelled in my dorm for the riot and the. way it worked is they had this Anonymous. web page set up the UMass police did. where anybody at the school could look. at all these pictures from the riot just. random still shots from the riot and if. you knew someone you could anonymously. name them and they would get in trouble. and so it was like anybody who had an. enemy began getting named and I found. three pictures of myself clear as day on. this website and I definitely did not. have friends at the school I had pissed.

off a lot of people and I'm like. someone's going to name me it's going to. happen like it's going to happen I'm. going to get expelled on top of. everything else and so I had to turn to. my dad who's come up to to talk to the. dean about my grades and about getting. kicked out and afterwards after he's. heard all these horrible things about. his son I had to pull him aside and be. like and also I was in a riot and I'm. probably going to get expelled if I. don't withdraw immediately oh man so I. left school uh I withdrew and I I went. and lived in my mom's basement and.

that's where I ultimately discovered I. was being a big idiot and I turned my. life around so you mentioned that your. mom in her in her essay that she wrote. for you to get into school you lost your. childhood friend I did which if she. wrote about that it must have been. pretty traumatic can we can visit that. yeah we can yeah um so I my best friend. growing up was this kid. named um we met when we were three you. know I moved to this house in quiny he. lived in the the same street as me and. we were you know brothers for life I.

have a a cross I carved into my arm with. him we were like Blood Brothers you know. and he tried to cauterize it cuz it. would stop bleeding and he ended up just. burning it so it's just a big burn that. I call across on my on my. arm uh but he and I were you know like. brothers and he came from a household. that was totally broken I mean as. dysfunctional and abusive as you could. possibly come from and so in many ways. he was kind of adopted into our family I. mean every vacation we went on was with. us anytime we did any. was with us uh and my parents treated.

him definitely like a son but when he. got older like 18 he fell into you know. drugs I mean his whole family is I mean. not his whole there was plenty of people. that were very like heroin addicts and. all that um and so he got addicted to at. least heroin if not something else I. mean he was really out there he ended up. robbing my house um which I honestly. forgive him for it's just one of those I. mean if you've been around people with. serious addictions they are not the. person that they they used to.

be um and then he overdosed but he. overdosed he overdosed when he was. 21 um and at the time I think he had. like a 12-year-old son I mean to give. you do the do the math on. that so yeah just really sad and the the. the essay that my mom wrote was you know. and I were we looked the same we very. similarl looking we had such similar. attitudes and out outlooks on life but. it it's what happened Happ s when you. grow up in a household that's totally.

broken and dysfunctional and abusive and. you know what happens when you're raised. in a healthy household by and large I. mean that's basically what she was. writing about without saying it is you. know two kids you know they have. everything in front of them one kid. who's his environment is healthy and. happy winds up you know succeeding so to. speak and the other winds up dying yeah. you know and actually that the essay she. wrote was before he ODed but it was it. was right when he had he was going in. and out of jail for uh there was this.

horrible article that came out that you. know he robbed a gas station with a. syringe that he told the guy was. infected with HIV you know I mean this. guy has fallen to a very low level and. then when he passed away it. was in a weird way kind of a relief as. horrible as that sounds you just knew. this guy's life was horrible so yeah. it's just it's just a huge contrast and. and how our lives played out a lot of. people are dealing with with a loved one. who has an addiction today I mean see it. all over the news the fentanyl.

crisis heroin you know when did. you and it creates a lot of codependency. you know and. so how many years were you guys I mean. it sound like he was basically part of. your family Dynamic when did that start. when did the addiction start what age. well I mean at a pretty young age he. began getting into smoking cigarettes. but as like a 10-year-old you know um.

you know he definitely was taking some. of his you know mother's pills I don't. know what they were when we were young. and it was kind of almost like a joke. like I just grabbed something from my. mom I don't know what it is you know. that kind of thing so at an early age he. was experimenting with things that you. would expect older teenagers to begin. with and so by the time he was you know. 15 16 he and I were definitely going. very different directions I wasn't doing. great it isn't like I was having this. really successful ful and you know. wholesome upbringing I was getting.

street fights getting my butt kicked and. all that but I was going to school and I. wasn't addicted to drugs and I had. loving parents and people around me and. so he I don't know exactly when he. became addicted to heroin but I would I. would guess it was sometime between 15. to 17 so did is that when you saw I mean. did you did you separate yourself from. that or or we I felt really bad about it. because I love I still do you know it's. this is a guy that's I was so close with.

but it just felt the more I hung out. with him the older I got the more. frankly uncomfortable I felt being. around him I mean we were going to. dealers houses so he could get his fix. you know and it's and I'm not doing that. stuff I'm just here and it just felt so. uncomfortable and dangerous frankly um. and so I I began pulling away from him. probably 15 years old 16 years old. probably around the time he became. pretty addicted to. drugs and then I think he was 18 when he. finally robbed my house and that was.

actually the essay that my mom wrote was. the end of the essay was him robbing the. house that kind of signal the end of the. relationship officially even though he. wound up calling a couple days later to. apologize for it it's like dude you. broke into my house and robbed my house. yeah so but by that point it was we kind. of knew it was over and then when he. passed away a few years later I mean not. one person was like I can't believe it. it's like yeah that makes sense yeah. yeah that's sad let's move forward yeah. let's move back to so you failed out of.

school you're a you're a rioter a big. piece of crap basically yeah and so when. did the when did the military kind of. show up on the radar were you into that. as a child at all I was I mean I had GI. Jo's and I played with them so you know. on on that level I was but I don't think. I thought about it all that seriously. until you know po I mean I was in. seventh grade when 9911 happened and so. I was definitely old enough to be very. aware of the impact that had on our.

society and then after high school I saw. a lot of my friends enlist in the. Marines and go to Iraq and and go to the. Middle East and so I think that. somewhere in me I felt I had like a. responsibility to serve at some point I. think I I did feel that way just seeing. my friends do. it but I don't think I had a plan. necessarily it was just this thought I. had that maybe I should volunteer at. some point but when I came back home. after my pathetic first semester in.

college I I mov back home and I'm living. in my mom's basement my parents are. separated by this point they got. divorced when I was 13 um but so I'm. living in my mom's basement and I have. just ruined this opportunity that was. handed to me I mean my mom got me into. college I'm not even paying for it my. parents are and to show you how immature. I was I mean I came home and I resented. my parents for making me leave school. cuz I had my friends at UMass like what. are you doing you're taking me away from. my friends you know it's you're you're.

so blind to the reality of the situation. like I screwed it up that's why I'm home. but it took me a little while of being. home and being resentful to come around. to the idea that dude if you don't do. something now like there aren't going to. be more great opportunities my parents. clearly had reached a point where it's. like dude get a job or go to school but. that's all you're doing like you're on. your own you're 19 you're an adult like. you figure it out and um it was when I. was at home in this formative time that.

I I did end up getting a job at the. local YMCA I I biked to work in the. morning at like 4: a.m. to sit behind. the desk and scan people's Cards into. the gym and then I would go into Boston. where I actually was going to UMass. UMass Boston so it's a satellite campus. of UMass Amherst actually but it's it's. a great school but it's very easy to get. into and that's why I got into it um and. so it's kind of like Community College. if you will I'm just commuting in and. out during the day but so I'm you know I. got the job job my hourly wage job I.

began going to classes and I noticed. that my parents were just like happy. that I was kind of being an adult for. once and it was probably the first time. in my life that I felt like I was. getting respect for something that I was. doing that was mature you know most of. the time I was clamoring for respect out. on the streets by trying to get to. fights or something but to have you know. said I'm going to get a job and go to. school and then do it and then have your. parents be like hey good job keep it up. I was like oh actually that's pretty. cool like I I like being an adult this.

feels good it feels good being. responsible and so I really leaned into. school frankly at ums Boston I spent uh. three semesters there where every day I. got up at three and biked you know to my. job and then took the Train the MBTA the. red the red line if you're familiar it's. a famous Subway into Boston I would go. to class and I got great grades I really. applied myself and got you know A's and. B's and it was like great I didn't know. what I was going to do with my college. degree I was. I was in uh philosophy and English for.

my two majors which you know to a degree. I thought about maybe pursuing law. school and there was no pre-law degree. and so those were kind of like the two. things you could do to position yourself. for law school but um I just realized I. didn't really want to go to law school. like I enjoyed applying myself in. college and I enjoyed you know being. mature but I was like well when College. ends I don't think I want to be a lawyer. and that was when I I went back to the. military just and I was like you know I. I've kind of always felt this this want.

to volunteer and and serve I wonder what. I could do in the military and it was at. this time that my my mother who at the. time was a librarian she's like the. super sweet lady she's like yeah you. should talk to to Susan's Brothers Susan. is a very dear friend of my mom's family. friend she's like an aunt of mine if you. will so Susan and I knew she had two. brothers who you know these guys are. much older than me and I as just Pete. and Dave were her brothers I didn't. anything about them I I thought they. were in the military but I didn't really.

know they're they're not part of my life. I just knew they existed right and my. mom's like yeah you you should talk to. to Susan's Brothers if you're interested. in the military and I'm like why like. why should I talk to them like oh. they're retiring they were they were. Navy Seals and I'm like what like Dave. and Pete were Navy Seals like what how I. didn't even know that and so I wound up. meeting them out of Interest frankly I'm. like dude I didn't know you were seal I. thought you were just some random dude. in the army or something and they're. like whatever dude like I was in the. seals like devre guys like big time.

dudes and it was just the most. incredible experience I went up to see. them in New Hampshire at the shooting. range they were at actually there's a. bigger story to this I I went up to this. this camp that Susan owned it was like a. an art camp for kids like on on this. Lake in beautiful New Hampshire and. there's all these kids running around. like painting and playing their M their. instruments and it's like a summer camp. but up the road literally up this little. dirt road is this like plywood Shack. that Dave and Pete built and it's just a. hangout spot for them in New Hampshire.

with like them and their team guy. buddies and and I think a couple of them. were from the CIA as well but they would. just go up there and hang out in the. shack and like go shooting at this range. like right near this art camp and so. that was where I was meeting them and so. I'm I drive up to this camp and I find. Susan and you know I see this this cute. art camp and I'm oh this is great she's. like oh yeah Dave and Peter are right up. the road they're waiting for you and I'm. like oh great and like I've spent almost. no time with Dave and Pete to this point. again they're they're just people I knew. existed that was it and so I know they. seals and I'm driving up the road and.

I'm like very intimidated I'm 19 years. old and I I get to the top of this road. and I see this just terrible looking. plywood Shack something you'd see on. like deployment some janky thing like an. ouse somebody built and it's big enough. you know it's prob as big as this space. and I get out of the car and I walk over. to the door and I I didn't have DAV. Pete's number they emailed me and said. come to this address on this day and so. I'm just going and as I get close to the. door I can hear through the plywood the. sound of Gro men like inside and there's. more than just two people in there it's.

a sea of people are clearly inside of. this Hut and I'm this totally like green. 19-year-old kid who's like I want to be. in the military like I've you have to. nothing I want to be a seal yeah it's. like I knock on the plywood and there's. just. silence and I'm like hey it's it's John. Jesse son and they're like come in and I. open the door and I look in and it's. there's no floor it's just dirt and. there's all these upturn buckets that. these dudes are sitting on covered in t. tattoos they're all just yoked just. jacked and they're all looking at me and.

they're still silence and they're. definitely with me but they were like. who the are you and it's just. like I'm Jesse's son and I'm interested. in being a seal uh but uh meeting those. guys and they quickly brought me in like. we'll tell you about buds we'll tell you. about training we'll tell you about this. um but the big thing that stuck with me. is they're like you know what a lot of. people go to the SEAL Teams to kind of. reinvent themselves. because just about anybody can try out.

for the sealed teams I mean that's. that's really generous but a lot of. people can try out for the teams and. it's just who can make it to the end you. know it's a meritocracy can you can you. suck it up and make it to the end and if. you do you come out like born again like. the Navy SEAL version of. yourself and I felt like I had a lot of. things I had screwed up in my time in. high school and early college and I was. really starting to get in the flow of. being an adult these three sem masters. of doing well at um Boston that this.

idea of Reinventing myself of going. through this trial and being able to. come out the other side not the guy that. off in high school and college but the. Navy SEAL John like that's what they'll. know me for and I wanted to serve. already so it kind of checked both boxes. for me can be the best version of myself. and can do what my friends did when they. got out of high school at 18 I can go. serve and uh I became obsessed with the. SEAL Teams like obsessed with the SEAL. Teams I mean I read every book that.

existed I watched every documentary I I. mean I was fully committed to it and uh. I wound up after doing three semesters. at UMass Boston so at this point I'm now. two years into my college career they. have this automatic re acceptance. program at UMass Amherst the school I. screwed up in the first semester and. almost like a like a point of Pride I I. wanted to graduate from UMass Amherst. just to kind of rewrite what had. happened M and so I reapplied to um. Amhurst I got in and they gave me a.

whole list of rules that I had to follow. because of my history which basically. was stay stay in the dorms ironically. enough you can't live off campus because. you're going to cause too many problems. you're going to live in the dorms you're. going to do your classes and you're not. going to get in any trouble and you can. come back and I did I showed up and I. was totally buttoned up I'm not screwing. around and actually that's that's when I. met my wife so I met her she's my. college sweetheart but I met her when I. went back to UMass Amherst uh and that's. I told you the story before but I when I. met my wife like the first night I met. her this is right around the time I've.

just come back from New Hampshire and. I'm I'm freshly motivated to become a. Navy SEAL that's my life's calling and I. met Amanda and we're just sitting in my. buddy's apartment just like getting to. know each other and she asked like what. do you what do you what are you going to. do after college and I was like oh I'm. going to I'm going to try out for the. SEAL Teams I want to be a Navy SEAL and. she looks at me she just reaches under. my arm and squeezes my bicep and goes I. don't. know and. it's funny my wife has been Amanda.

became my wife but she she's totally. like looks at me as John the person and. not remotely the things that I've done. with my life which has been incredibly. grounding so she's she's been huge and. just keeping me very Baseline very very. normal um but yeah no I went back to um. Amherst met Amanda we hit it off right. away it was like really was like love at. first sight I I was with her 247. basically when I got back to school but. I began in tandem training for the SEAL. Teams. what was it about her that Drew you to.

her so much I actually don't even. necessarily know um I think that she was. unimpressed by me and I'm not saying. that other people were cuz I hadn't done. anything to that point it was more like. Amanda was able to view me really as the. person I am not the person I'm. presenting like I'm she saw the real me. and liked the real me and didn't expect. me to be anything else she was just like. real with me and I felt like I felt like. I was talking to a real person that was. not putting on an act she also just was.

so nurturing and motherly which I really. liked um not that I'm some needy guy but. I just felt like I was taken care of. with her and that I could take care of. her it was like very symbiotic you know. we kind of looked after each other and. so you could be yourself without letting. your ego take control yeah I I think. especially with like young men not to. make a broad sweeping generalization but. young men are trying trying to kind of. position themselves as whoever they.

think they're going to be they they want. the world to see them for who they want. to be at some point and so there's a. little bit of bravado that comes in and. with Amanda she just was unimpressed by. that she didn't want to see that she. wanted to know me and I I was able to. just let my guard down really quickly. with her and be vulnerable with her and. she wasn't judgmental and she was the. first person I was ever around that made. me feel that way and it was like she's. it I want to be with her and actually I. saw within a month of seeing her in.

college I was just looking at pictures. of her on her Facebook or whatever and. there was a picture of her she had just. gone to South Africa for just like a. semester or a month or something of. studying and it was clear from the. pictures that Amanda didn't really do. what the rest of her peers that had gone. did they went out to clubs and partied. and stuff Amanda spent her time in South. Africa finding stray dogs and cats and. like bringing them into the Ved and. getting them de like liced and de ticked. and looking after neighborhood kids. there's like pictures of her with like. children playing games with kids and.

playing with animals and just it. reminded me so much of Snow White this. like woman who's just so wonderful who. just loves animals and people and just. so loving and I was like that's the. mother of my my kids that's why I want. to be the mother of my my children and. here we are you know we got married in. 2011 right before I was actually in I. was I just finished boot camp and I was. getting ready to go to Bud's prep in. Chicago to get ready for Seal training. and we got married in a courthouse in. Wan Illinois in 2011 uh and so we're. still married today so 13 years is she.

from Illinois no that's where I was for. boot camp graduation boot camp and she. came yeah okay conven married there. convenient yeah we we we basically. eloped so let's rewind for just a second. well. first you've been married for almost 11. years 2011 to now so it'll be 13 years. in April 13 years y we have three kids. 13 years in April. that's impressive especially you know.

considering the fact that she's gone. through your seal career not a lot of. people make it out of there you know. still married I don't know how either. and um so now you have three kids what. would you say the secret is to a. successful marriage I don't know I mean. I I can speak to my time in the SEAL. Teams which to your point uh for those. that are not aware of this I mean the. divorce rate is Sky High in the teams. it's I mean the the s are gone so. frequently for training and deployments.

that alone is a huge a huge hurdle for a. marriage if you're gone half the year. that's a big deal um not to mention your. job is dangerous and people die doing it. and it's stressful and you carry it home. with you and you know it's it's a whole. thing and the culture the culture is not. good dring Rel to marriage yeah it's not. good and so I think you. know I I I just feel like I actually. genuinely loved my wife when I went into. the teams and I felt like a lot of the.

guys that I knew who were married it it. just seemed like they didn't know if. they love their wife yet that they had. just gotten married kind of recently and. it just seemed like they hadn't kind of. figured it out yet um granted I had only. known my wife for she wasn't even my. wife when I went in but I had only known. her for a year but I just I felt so. solid with her I I was so sure she was. going to be my forever. partner that you know the distance when. you get to the team and training. definitely took a toll on our marriage.

for sure but her and I were both so. secure I think in our relationship I I I. was so confident she was never going to. cheat on me and loved me and it was. reversed even though I was in an. environment where that kind of runs. rampant and I think that because we. shared that trust for each other and we. genuinely loved each other that you know. I she's my number one and even though. there's Temptations and all these things. all around you all the time in the team. I just I always felt like I wanted. Amanda and I still do now and um so I.

think ultimately it's just cuz I I. prefer Amanda over everything else you. picked the right one yeah I think that's. right when then how do you how do you. tell someone who the right one is I. don't know I just got. lucky the connection yeah it's the. connection not the looks not anything. else it's the connection exactly but um. rewinding real quick You' said that your. parents split at age 13 yes a lot of. kids I mean I don't even I don't know. what the divorce rate is nowadays but I.

would I feel confident in saying that. it's probably higher than people that. make it yes and so how did. you how did you deal with that as a. 13-year-old seeing your parents split it. was tough it was definitely hard um. mostly because in kind of that cliche. way leading up to it me and my sisters. my younger sister was probably too young. I was 133 my younger sister was seven or.

six and my older sister was 15 so me and. my older sister Evan um we were. definitely seeing cracks in the marriage. and we talked about it as young. teenagers as the years kind of led up to. the. divorce um and then I remember I came. home from um I I was teaching. snowboarding on the weekends at the time. at this little it's called Blue Hills in. Massachusetts it's literally a little. Hill in Boston that I caught. snowboarding and it had been such a fun. day just a good day at the mountain you.

know I I'd love snowboarding um and I. came home and I remember I was taking. off my my gear in the base of my. house and my mom came downstairs and. said your dad left um and I was like. well what do you mean he left and she's. like he's gone he left and it was like. well what happens now I don't really. understand and it it took a couple of. days for it to sink in that no he's not. coming back he's gone. like the marriage is over we don't know. what's going to happen next but it's.

over and even though I was aware things. were going poorly in the marriage when. that happened um I know that just that. that that hurt a lot that hurt a lot and. you know over the coming years as that. kind of played out because basically you. know both of them had done things to the. other that resulted in the divorce it. was not a one-way thing it was kind of a. two-way. street um just watching them fight and. be bitter with each other over the years.

and feeling like you almost had to pick. sides was really difficult um and I. think that at the time I would have said. oh this isn't affecting me but I think. that I was in an environment already. that was pretty volatile my friends are. getting in street fights left and right. there's loads of underage drinking and. so my outlet became something I was. already turning to it isn't like they. drove me to these people but I more and. more and more was spending as much time. as I could with people that were not. necessarily the best influences on my.

life so I think that I don't know if I. would have been a goody two shoes and. been great come the end of high school. had my parents stuck together but I. think it accelerated some pretty bad. behavior however I think it led to what. I'm doing now because I needed to. everything up to get myself back. together again he left he how long would. it how long did it how much time had. passed before you'd see him again did. you uh I think I saw or spoke to him. relatively soon he went to see his. family up in Maine okay it was he didn't.

disappear he wasn't an AB no he no I I. what I meant is he had moved out he's. gone he's moved out of the house he's. not coming back and my mom I don't think. she even knew where he went but there. was an understanding that I'm going to. have a dad it's just going to be so much. different now and uh it was you know I. candidly you know my relationship with. my dad obviously suffered over the. course of the time that I wasn't around. him you know he he made an effort to to. be in my life as much as he could be but.

you know my mom and dad did not get. along and it made it and I lived with my. mom so of my. siblings and so it's just kind of a a. stressful you know part of my life I. think I I will say though that because. of. how difficult the divorce was and really. seeing the effects it had on my younger. sibling I mean she began you she was. sick so I don't think she'd be. embarrassed if I said this but you know. she began weding the bed at 6 years old. when she had stopped right when our.

parents are getting divorced and you're. seeing this kid who she can't process. what's happening she's sick she doesn't. know what's going on it's just Mom and. Dad and it was just so heartbreaking. even as a 13-year-old to see a. six-year-old really struggle with. something and it's coming out in wetting. the bed or throwing Tantrums that didn't. make any sense and it's and so now I'm. and maybe that's made me a better. husband in some ways maybe that's what. got me through staying with my wife. through the teams because I I didn't. want I don't want my kids to go through. what I went through with the divorce.

there are far worse things that for kids. to go through but I feel like divorce is. one that the parents have a lot of. control over I mean you need to work on. your relationship that's how you keep a. relationship healthy you work on it if. you just think it's going to be the same. for 50 years you're wrong you. know um so I think that it's made me a. super attentive partner uh and it's made. me Ultra committed to my wife so in a. way I'm thankful for the divorce because. it put that perspective in my head but I. don't think that I'm actually thankful.

for it did you have to did you have to. choose as a 13-year-old or was the who. you're going to stay with or was the. decision made for. you I don't recall explicitly but it. definitely was more on us to make a. decision except my parents weren't like. you better choose make the right choice. they weren't like they understood this. is an impossible thing for their kids I. mean my parents are they they did their. best to navigate a really difficult. situation but invariably it came down to. where do you want to live and and I. think that it was there it was obvious.

we were going to stay with my Mom it. just my dad was gone so much for work as. it was you know he was working at the. globe and doing all this extra work the. Boston Globe the newspaper um so it it. was natural we went to my mom it it. would have been odd if we had chosen my. dad and not for any other reason that it. just didn't seem right you know so two. two questions first being as a. 13-year-old as a kid you know what. advice do you have for a kid that's. going to deal with that for anybody. that's listening whose parents are.

separating getting ready to get divorced. you got to you got to talk about your. feelings you got to talk to somebody I I. I my mom pushed me to see a therapist. when I was. 13 and I remember it being really. helpful as a 13-year-old I mean I didn't. even know what I was supposed to talk. about it still felt so. new but I I wound up stopping therapy. mostly cuz it interfered with my need to. go out and drink and and get in street.

fights but I I wound up going back to. therapy as an adult you know post you. know getting out of the military and. immediately I was like wow you know. therapy for me is is incredibly. effective being able to to put out there. how you're feeling and let somebody else. kind of help you work through it you. don't realize how effective that can be. when you're talking through really. difficult. subjects and I look back at 13-year-old. me and I wish I had stayed in therapy um. not cuz I was such a train wreck but I. think some things would have been curbed.

I think that I would have recognized the. the hazards of the people I was spending. my time with and how the more time I. spent with them the harder it was going. to get for me to kind of navigate my. life I was developing an enormous amount. of bitterness towards my dad um mostly. because I didn't see him I you know he. was I wasn't living with him and so I in. not being around my dad it's easy to to. formulate things in your mind that. aren't necessarily true about that. person but but really all it is is is. sadness over losing what used to be and. it turned into bitterness and I really.

directed it at my. dad um I think as a kid I should have. been speaking to a professional about. that particular feeling because I felt. so bad about it but didn't tell anybody. that I was like secretly hating on my. dad even though in many ways the the. divorce was both parties created the. divorce it wasn't one. person um so yeah therapy I think. ultimately therapy would be my. suggestion and if not Professional. Therapy find someone you can trust and. just be open and honest and I know. that's easy to give that advice but it's.

it's the thing to do in my opinion yeah. second question is for parents who are. getting a divorce and want to make it as. easy as possible on their. kids. what what are some things that maybe. could have made your life easier or. helped you through that a little bit. more you know what advice would you give. your parents don't disparage the other. person in front of your kids don't do it.

it's so harmful hearing negative things. about your other parent it's it doesn't. go away it's left in your mind and you. begin to think those things and not that. either of my parents did a lot of that. um but it happened enough that it it. influenced the way I I felt about my. parents in a negative way and it wasn't. until I was much older and had kids of. my own that I realized just how. devastating it is to implant in your. child's mind something negative about.

the two most important people in their. lives I mean as a child your parents are. your world and that shouldn't be. corrupted especially by the people who. hold the power to be that kid's world so. no matter what they did to you or. whatever you think they did to you do. not talk [ __ ] about your partner in. front of your parents like say nothing. if anything because your kid is just. going to have profound Ripple effects if. they hear negative stuff about their. parents. great advice thank you on that note. let's take a quick break when we come.

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left off with your with the Seal team. stuff going into buds uh You' met with. the guys who retired out of Dev group in. the shack you'd met your. wife she didn't think you were going to. make it and um and uh biceps lacking a. little bit but um so let's let's just. pick up right from there yeah so I. uh when I went back to Mass Amherst so. when I got re accepted to close out my. college Years I um I really went from I.

think I'm going to be a seal or I want. to try out for being a seal to that's. what I'm going to do when I graduate um. and you know as you know you know. there's more slots available to you in. buds if you enlist versus going in as an. officer um for the audience uh you know. there's only so many spots per year that. you can even try out for the SEAL Teams. and there's like you know hundreds of. spots per class for enlisted guys or.

gals who you know you can be 18 years. old and you can raise your hand and you. can enlist in the Navy and you can go. try out there's loads of spots for those. people but for officers for officer. candidates there's only you know a. handful of spots per class and there's. only five classes a year and the. competition for those spots are so high. and to be an officer candidate you need. to have graduated college got a degree. and be commissioned as an officer to. then try out as a seal and so keep in. mind I'm in college I'm getting ready to. graduate college but in my head cuz I.

had done the research my plan was to. enlist once I graduate so do not use my. college degree put it to no use en list. in the Navy and go go try out for the. SEAL Teams that's my big plan and I knew. this around the time I met Amanda like. you know J beginning of my junior year. of college but I wasn't ready to tell my. family about it just because it felt. like such an intense departure from what. I was doing which was currently getting. good grades and like being a good. student and John's going to go to law. school cuz that's what he said he's. going to do and so instead of being.

being you know open about this new. Direction I wanted to take I just stayed. with the LIE law school all the way. that's what I'm going to do no way yeah. dude and so for those two years I I. continued getting good grades and and. then when it was time to do law school. stuff do your lsats and get ready I. initially began to say oh yeah I'm going. to take the LSS next weekend yep oh. that's what I'm doing and I just kind of. sold this lie and then just didn't say. anything about it i' expected and no one. really followed up to be like did you. get your scores like what schools are.

you applying to what are you going to do. in law school they just kind of like oh. I guess John's all over it and then I. graduated and people were like huh he. hasn't really told us anything about law. school and no like within a week of. graduation I was in my recruiter's. office in in quiny enlisted trying to. enlist or get ready to enlist to go to. Buds and I came home from the. recruiter's office and I said all right. guys I got to tell you that I'm not. going to be a lawyer uh I'm enlisting in. the Navy to maybe become a Navy SEAL and. they're like.

what I mean what what did what did what. was the conversation like after that. were they for it were they like. truthfully my mom was very for it in. that way that she understands that you. know her son could be going In Harm's. Way so she's not like boy this is the. best thing ever but very proud you know. she's the one that told me to go talk to. Susan's Brothers I mean she knows she. played a role in this and I think that. ultimately by that point I think my my. mom was happy to see that her son had.

kind of found a purpose you know I was. very aimless and screwing off in high. school and then you know I find I find a. way to be a good student she's starting. to see that but this was probably. probably probably the first time that. she was seeing her son really make an. adult decision and whether or not she. genuinely wanted me to serve I don't. know but she was just proud and happy. for me my dad had a very different. reaction to it um there's no doubt that. he would have been that he is proud now. and was proud to a degree at the time.

but I think from his perspective it felt. like what if you don't make it then what. which is totally sensible yes because. for those that don't know if you enlist. in the Navy to go try out for the SEAL. Teams if you don't make it which. statistically you won't you are now an. undesignated therefore you don't have a. job you're an undesignated sailor in the. Navy who makes the lowest amount. possible and there's really no way to. get promoted you're stuck in your. contract for 4 years yeah and so imagine.

being a college Ed like a college degree. 21-year-old who's doing what an. 18-year-old with no college degree would. be doing in the Navy it's like you're. screwing yourself for those first few. years of your career you know and I. think my dad fixated on not you're going. to fail that's not what he was getting. at it was more he's such a he's very. pragmatic you know he's very sensible. he's rude in let's make good decisions. which is a good thing to do but to. become a seal it's not a good decision.

to try out because everything says it's. a bad decision you're probably not going. to make it and even if you do make it. you're probably going to get killed or. hurt and if you do if you live through. the teams you're probably going to be. divorced you're probably going to be. miserable and you're probably going to. have like chronic injuries so there's. lots of reasons not to do it um but it. draws people that can look past that. stuff and say I'm still going to do it. and that's not who my dad is and it's. exactly who I am and so we were very at. odds with this decision and you know. before I told him about my decision to.

become a or to try out for the SEAL. Teams he and I had really connected. because I was going to UMass Boston for. those few semesters uh granted I went. back to UMass amers but when I was at. UMass Boston his work the Boston Globe. was actually across the street from the. campus and so during my lunch break when. I'm I'm like this model student now. which was you know making my dad so. proud we'd go get lunch together we'd go. see we went to we went to Kansas City. together to go watch the opening day the. Red Sox game together you know it's a.

very close almost like a rekindling of. our relationship from the divorce when I. was 13 to 181 19 we're spending a bunch. of time together and then I go back to. Amhurst and then I graduate and I break. the news about the SEAL Teams and it. kind of screwed up our relationship in a. pretty big way my dad and I I think. again just he didn't want to see his son. get hurt he didn't want to see his son. you know be stuck in the Navy with a. college degree and four years of. enlistment ahead of him and so he was. kind of too focused on the downsides of. the decision or the risks of the.

decision and I was like I know these are. risks I'm aware of these risks I'm the. one taking this chance but I need you to. see that I'm somebody that has the drive. to do this you I I don't have a track. record to prove it but you know me I'm. somebody that can really put my head. down and struggle when I need to and I. think I can do this and what I really. wanted from my dad was just some level. of I think you can do this. I mean again he didn't he didn't have to. do that but that's what I wanted from.

him and I became very upset that he. didn't give it to me and I think that by. the time I shipped out for boot camp it. really had soured our relationship in a. pretty big way um I I think that the. intentions were good from him genuine. concern and worry for his son but I took. it very personally and it actually I. will say that when I was going through. SEAL training there were times where I. actually not was on the verge of. quitting but it was so hard and. miserable and I would think about I can. never face my dad if I quit this.

training that would be the most. embarrassing thing I can think of the. most like I told you so and I couldn't. have it I could not have that happen to. me so in a way and I actually told my. dad this he knows this we got in a big. fight a couple years after this about. the whole thing and I said I was like. you know I in a weird way you have. provided me with the most profound. Motivation by some basically doubting me. in a loving way. with the best of intentions but your. doubts actually definitely fueled me to.

keep going there were other things too. but that was a big one and so in a way. I'm thankful for it wow I can relate to. that that's uh very similar very similar. story but back to you what was I mean it. sounds like the the former seals that. you had met with is a 19-year-old played. a big impact what yeah what was it that. really I mean with all the other plays. you could go you could be infantry you. could be green beret you could be Force.

reconnaissance what year is this by the. way I met them in 2008 okay so the W. been going on for seven years yeah. and why I mean did you explore any other. options or was it just a little bit this. is where I'm going I mean truthfully I. was pretty big on a video game at the. time called Socom US Navy Seals on. PlayStation 2 great game uh and so my. understanding of Special Operations was. the best in the business are the Seals.

and I think that's I think that could. still be true I don't know I'm not going. to say that because your audience is. every Branch um but at the time I I was. very enamored with seals in general and. so to me it was obvious they were the. top position I could get into the top. special ops um and so I also I'm a. person that once I've decided I want. something I actually don't want to go. look at other options I just want to do. the thing I want to do whether I'm right. or wrong and once I've identified my. goal it's like I don't want any outside.

influence I just want to do it and so I. I kind of had tunnel vision with the. SEAL Teams but to to your point I I. think that there's truth in you know I. wanted to serve that's true but I could. have served in any part of the military. I wanted to and I would have. accomplished that goal so that can't be. the reason I went for the SEAL Teams on. some level it's ego like the SEAL Teams. are the rock stars of the military at. least at the time they certainly felt. that way actually this is pre pre- Bin. Laden raid so this is actually they were. super cool but not as cool as they got.

but they were still still very cool at. the time and I think that I really by. the time I was making that decision to. actually go and give this thing a shot I. had my progression was you know screwed. up high school by being an idiot and. getting in trouble and fighting and. drinking screwed up college for really. the same reason but then it's like I've. got my life back on track I'm getting. good grades I got my you know job I've. gotten back into UMass Amherst I've met. Amanda like I'm I'm on a track here. and I just I loved the idea of almost. like the final form I was going to take.

was the Navy SEAL version of me where it. was the complete metamorphosis from. complete up to you know upstanding. citizen who's who's got a purpose in. life and so I knew that if I could. become a seal not a soul was going to. focus on all the sh that I had done. wrong like people in my life they were. going to say that's John the Navy SEAL. so I didn't become a seal to get that. notoriety I joined for many reasons but. that's a part of it if it was deciding. between the branches I would say ego and. vanity and and all that stuff played a.

huge role but it's also like I really. did want I wanted to go to war and if. we're getting since we're getting deep. anyways I had this weird Fascination and. I think this is not as uncommon as I I. think it's not uncommon maybe it is I. wanted to die in combat I wanted it I. wanted to be I wanted to become a seal. go to war and die in a hail of gunfire. that's what I wanted oh before you even. yes before you even signed on the dotted. line you had decided that's where it.

ends not cuz I'm suicidal but because I. viewed it as like the. ultimate what's the word like Recreation. of myself I would I'd become like the. the best possible thing I could ever be. in my mind at the time is like a hero. who that people would miss and. appreciate because I just felt like I I. up so much at such a young age I didn't. really at the time it felt like a lot. but it's like I'm a smart guy I could. have gotten great grades probably could. have gotten into a great school probably. could have gotten a great job you know. if that stuff's good or whatever and it.

just it just felt like the SEAL Teams. and frankly death in war was I even. would tell I told my wife this and she. was like freaked out by it you know when. I became a seal it was even it was even. worse for her because she knew my first. deployment was to Afghan Afghanistan I. only did two deployments so I went to. Afghanistan and I was like giddy about. it and I think that she was like dude. don't die on deployment like don't do. that don't go there with the intent of. dying in combat and truthfully yeah dude.

it was you told her that when when did. you I was a [ __ ] head case still am. oh man but she uh yeah I told her you. know right so I I I go through buds I'm. sure we'll go through the whole story. but I go through buds I go to Seal Team. 2 on the east coast and when we checked. in we didn't know where we we were going. to go it was like we might go to. Afghanistan we might not we don't know. and then when the word came in kind of. last minute which I think is somewhat. par for the course for a lot of these. deployments it was like a celebration I.

mean I'm sure you can relate to this to. yeah to find out we were going to go to. the show we're going to go to war we're. going to actually go to war and I. couldn't help it I told amand I was. excited because of the prospect of being. killed in combat wow wow and I was like. I'm sorry to say that to you but it's. it's real and that's where I'm at and it. definitely upset her all you know but. it's like here we are I'm I'm going I'm. going you know I would say though that. right before I deployed and know I'm. kind of jumping around here but I. actually did admit to her like the night.

before I was supposed to leave for. Germany I was like you know what now I'm. scared now that it's here I'm less. skiddy about it [ __ ] I might actually. [ __ ] combat because it's easy to like. theorize but when you're really going to. do it suddenly it's like oh I don't want. to do that and so maybe maybe before I. left I reassured her that I'm actually a. human being inside and I'll protect. myself you know yeah yeah wow. very interesting that's I mean it's. crossed my mind several times I I always.

wanted. to just wanted to fight you know yeah. but um but going back you check into. buds yeah well actually even before that. what was your you know it's it sounds. like you had educated yourself very much. so on the on the subject and what you. were walking into what were you what did. you imagine your biggest Hang-Ups were. going to be going through training was. it the 50 m underwater swim was it the. was it hell week was it pool comp what.

what were you. most anxious. about feared babbe that you wouldn't. complete I so for sure comfortability in. the water was a concern uh my mom is a. amazing swimmer like amazing she every. day she swims like a mile and has been. for her whole life she's incredible she. trained me for the swimming side really. oh yeah she's a and she's a beast the. workouts I did with her were some of the. worst workouts I've ever done in the. pool and she was like not wind it at all.

she's like come on let's go next next. set next set next set so she's she's. incredible but I could see how good she. was in the water and she could do like. 75 meters underwater like nothing and. could come up like practically not even. out of breath and I couldn't even do 25. um so in in buds you go through you have. to do a 50 meter underwater swim and. anyway so um I was really worried about. the 50 m mostly because I actually. didn't think I could do it I thought I. can't even do 25 so how am I going to do. 50 um but bigger than that was like.

there's there's a whole phase of SEAL. training that is underwater training. it's the entire second phase which is. you know six weeks long or whatever it. is and I was like you know what I don't. know how I'm going to do in that but. that's after I get through the first. phase of training which everybody fails. on which is like the really famously. tough hell week you know get your ass. kicked every day and so I was kind of. thinking like if I can get through that. part of training by the time I'm at the. water stuff I'll be ready ready and so I. just convinced myself that my the things. I was going to be bad at I would just.

figure out when I reached those. points and that was kind of true I would. say that when I got to second phase. you're like well I'm still terrified of. doing underwater stuff so I was still. very stressful um but actually I mean. overall I think that I I am somebody. that I have probably a disproportionate. amount of confidence in my own ability. which has helped and hurt me in my life. there like the fight with PA I was very. confident in my abilities but I did not. have the abilities and so I got my. kicked but with SEAL training truthfully.

I think a lot of people could make it. through SEAL training it really does. come down to just how much can you take. it's not really a skill thing that yes. there are some skill things you have to. do to a degree but a lot of it is just. suffer how much can you suffer and for. how long um and I knew I could do that I. knew that was something I was able to do. and I just went in with that attitude. like I'll make it you know. I'm not going to quit mhm but water. stuff might be a problem but when I get.

there we'll figure it out so even. checking in you had a tremendous amount. of confidence I would say very humble. confidence I did not I was not the guy. that's like oh I'm going to be a seal it. was more like I'm so happy to be here. this is like the coolest thing ever I. really hope I make it that's what I. would say but in inside I'm like I know. I'm not going to quit at least I really. believe I'm not going to. quit what did you think when you saw all. of the green helmets lined up at the at. the bell of all the people that had quit.

you know just one class before yours so. we so before I went to California to go. through SEAL training I really did. consume virtually every piece of content. that was seal related books TV shows. movies you name it and there was a lot. less at the time now there's more but. there was a good amount and I write it. all I've seen all the pictures I've. watched all the. documentaries and so when I arrived in. Coronado California I remember being on. the bus crossing the Coronado Bridge and. just seeing Coronado for the first time. and it's so beautiful it's like the most.

beautiful place but I could see even. from the bridge you're looking way out. like towards the coast and you can see. the beach where buds is happening and it. just seems so surreal to be arriving in. the place where all these books and TV. shows and movies that I've been watching. on repeat for like 2 years they all. happened basically here cuz I mostly was. fixated on reading about Buds and then. when I got to the compound you know the. first thing I did was I after you know. running around with my little white. shirt dudes who I was supposed to be. there with we went over to the grinder.

uh where the famous duck feed are and. all the helmets and everything and I I. just couldn't believe I was actually at. the grinder and I could see real helmets. and then that night actually when we got. to C California the class who was in. first phase started hell week and I got. to go to the beach and watch breakout. for hell week and it was on the one hand. horrifying that I'm like we are the next. class that's doing that like we going to. be doing what they're doing in like a. couple of months and so that was jarring. and and intimidating and also seeing the.

people in your class I mean I'm an. average sized person and there are many. not average sized people that start buds. including professional athletes left and. right and you're like oh my God but it. was so special to just see the helmets. and the grinder to see hell week to see. frankly Navy Seals just everyday Navy. Seals who are not instructors that are. going into the West Coast teams that are. right there just seeing them walking. around it was so like a dream come true. but like mixed with fear and anxiety all.

that stuff so I'd say like excitement. was how I felt were you you know you I'm. glad you brought up that there's always. a lot of pro athletes pro athletes. Golden Glove boxers division one uh. water poolo players football players. people that have even other people that. have already been to war and come back. to become a seal I mean. and you no offense John but you're a. 21-year-old Punk kid right out of.

college and I felt like a 21y old punk. kid how did you did did you spend a lot. of time measuring yourself up. to to the to your peers especially the. guys that are in hell week now I mean it. didn't sound like you had time to meet. any of them but you I remember showing. up and seeing guys grown men quit I was. 18 yeah and thinking holy sh if that guy. quit there's not a chance in hell I'm. going to make this but [ __ ] it I'm going.

to try I mean dude the intimidation was. like so high I mean I don't know when. what class were you 240 okay so I was. 289 to start 291 to graduate and I think. because they changed it recently but I. think we were one of the classes one of. the first classes that went to that dry. side Barracks for basic orientation does. that ring any bells for you okay they. basically moved the whole first phase. and pre first phase group over to this. dormatory on the dry side of the base so. basically for the audience we were kind.

of isolated so the buds compound is on. one side of the road where the SEAL. Teams are and Buds and all the crazy. stuff happens and then on the literal. other side of this road the Silver. Strand Road there's this other side of. this Naval Base which is not spec. Warfare it's just a navy base but. there's a Barracks that they used for. first phase so early early Bud students. and guys that are getting ready to start. the class and so I check in there and. there's much oversight it's just a whole. bunch of kids that have just arrived so. 250 brand new check-ins that don't know.

anything and the guys that have been. hurt in first phase but did not get far. enough into training that they were able. to roll forward into Postell week they. were like they're going to start over on. day one of buds they're just waiting to. class up again and so you check into. this environment where there's there's. no people that have really progressed. you have people that have just checked. in like you who are pro athletes and. these big intimidating people and you. have the dudes that got hurt let's say. on day three of training and they've. been rolled back so you don't know.

anything about how they got here but all. you know is the rollbacks have not. passed hell week they might have gotten. to hell week but they haven't passed. hell week and the rest of the group is. nobody's like we haven't done anything. we just got here and so guess who has. all the influence all the rollbacks who. have like five minutes of experience and. a lot of those guys went on to quit and. that's why they got hurt at the. beginning of training because they. milked an injury to get out of training. because it was so hard and so they're. like Taurus they were never going to. make it but for a brief period of time. when we checked in we were Their.

audience and we were a captive audience. because we want to know what's the first. day like oh you made it to day two tell. me all about day one wow and these kids. were like get ready it's the hardest. thing you're ever going to do you know. and it's it made it way worse cuz I went. in thinking holy like these guys are. amazing and they it's so hard and then I. got to Buds and I'm like oh okay it's. hard but like adults who came here with. a purpose can do this can do this. training if you're a guy that showed up. that's like half invested of course. you're not going to make it and that's.

who those guys were a lot of them were. yeah admittedly though there were a. couple people that I met when I first. checked in who did make it and went on. to go to Dev group and were like. incredible and they were awesome because. they didn't do that they were like oh. dude you'll be fine they were the only. ones that were like it is what it is. you'll be fine so it was a mix of like. people talking it up and people who were. cool let's fast forward to 50 meter. underwater swim. I did it my first try you did I did yeah. so I think that when I think about the.

50 m so I couldn't do more than 25 M so. one length of a pool when I was training. on my own but since you've obviously. done it too I think that what happens is. when you're forced to do it you go in. with a slightly different attitude I. mean you have instructors that are like. do it right now or you're out of the. course it's very simple get in and do it. or you're gone and so you jump in with. like a f it like I have to do it I'm. being told do it I'm not choosing to do. it I have to do it and then when you. make that turn and You Begin the return. 25 it's like you're hypoxic you're.

you're you're totally done and you be. some people become euphoric and I did. too I became very euphoric oh this kind. of great swimming through the water and. then they ended up just like pulling me. to the end and I came up and I was like. actually I feel fine I feel fine you. know but I think I was one of the lucky. ones who became euphoric so I was like I. have to do this and I made the turn and. I was like soed up that it felt good. yeah and I came out of the surface and I. was. good moving into so 50 m the biggest.

that's that's a big Challen it's the. first big hangout you face day one I. think it's like literally day one or day. two it's very early I knew I don't think. it was day one for us but may I can't. remember that was 20 years ago but um. but that's a big hangup it's a big. there's a lot of anticipation for the 50. m. underwater moving into the next big. hangup is the most most feared event. hell week yeah let's talk about your. experience in hell week so I had a.

summer hell week uh which is an. important distinction to make for those. in the know uh so the I had I had hell. week in July or June it was June June of. 2011 um Let me give some context so. there is this big rivalry winter hell. week and summer hell week so the way it. goes is winter hell week they will. utilize the cold to make you quit more. so than a summer hell week even though. the water is still freezing yeah it's.

pretty much the same all year round it's. just the the air is colder summer hell. week you're going to get your kicked. more yeah and they're going to. physically exhaust you knock the [ __ ]. out of youm and uh and so it's there is. a trade-off yeah think attempt to even. it out but I I think it's definitely the. case that winter hell weeks get like the. that's harder I think um so we had a. summer hell week which I was very. grateful for because going into hell. week I was like everybody else very worn.

down from the first three weeks of. training um but yeah I mean honestly. with hell week I it was obviously. extremely challenging I mean it has to. be you're you're awake for you know five. and a half days or whatever it is but at. the same time I think that one of the. things that I had going for me from day. one probably through hell week cuz I. think that my my my Outlook changed. after hell week a little bit I'll tell. you why but I was still very much in. like the the honeymoon phase of being at. buds I mean I've only been here for a.

month and I'm I'm doing something that I. want to do more than anything else and. to have just a chance to be in in hell. week was just really special it felt. like I was doing something that was so. cool and so reputable and so. important that um I was nervous going. into it and worried about it but also I. felt very privileged to have a chance to. just say I was even in hell week I mean. there are plenty of guys that don't even. get to hell week they quit on day five. or. something um and then when hell week.

started I would say it was almost a. relief because obviously you know on the. the way hell week works is they they put. you in like a holding area like 12 hours. or 24 hours before you start and um they. put us in the the the buds classroom. which is right near the beach and we. were just like watching movies and. waiting and waiting and waiting and. waiting and then at some point every. class knows they tell you to head out to. the beach and on the beach these. military style tents with cs in them and. and you go out there and you sit in. these tents and you're just you're. waiting for breakout to start it's how.

all hell week start and um the. instructors just come out of nowhere. with flashbangs and you know fake rounds. they're firing off into the air from. their machine guns and um I remember. when breakout started when our our main. instructor this Beast of a man uh I'll. give him a shout out actually so Jesus. name anybody who is my generation from. 280 to like 295 knows who instructor. is this dude's just an absolute Beast of. a human being he's like his chest is. like this wide looks like a Navy SEAL if.

you said what does a Navy SEAL look like. and you didn't know you'd say that's. what it looks like he's the guy he's. he's so intimidating but the thing about. him is he was like ridiculously like. intense and strict and would be like. really nasty but he was super Fair. everybody appreciated that would be very. fair with you if you did something right. and you got called out for it and it was. like wrong he'd like correct it so he. was like he was for the people but. remember I saw walking past my tent. carrying like an M60 in one hand or both. hands actually two m6s he's walking past.

the the tent flap and I saw a glow and. I'm like this little withered away like. 150 lb dude that's like gotten his ass. kicked for three weeks and I was like I. can't believe it's going to start and. then like all right boys a booming deep. voice he's like let's go and he begins. firing off his gun and we all just. stream out of the tents yelling H yah. running into the ocean it was like crazy. you know and and and because you don't. sleep for you know Sav for a couple of. hours throughout the week I mean it all. bled in it's all Blended in together to. like this weird experience that I.

couldn't tell you when certain things. happen on certain days I remember. breakout and I remember like doing um. when you run around the base with a boat. on your head like Bas tour I think it's. called I remember doing rocking chairs. as the sun came up where you're you're. laying in the in the surf and you're. facing the oceans your head's on the. sand your legs are in the water the. Tide's coming up to your nose and. hitting you and you're like rocking with. your your feet back to the sand and then. you come back down again like over and. over and over again or you might have. you might be oriented the other way but.

either way every time your head goes. back the surf goes up your nose and I. remember like doing that as the sun was. coming up and it's that's day one is now. complete and I'm like oh my God this is. day one of five and a half um but yeah. just you just kind of keep going and and. early on in our hell week we had so many. people quit just I not because it was. hard just because of fear and anxiety. and anticipation all these people quit. and it was like I'm sure you remember. this it it it motivated me to stick. around the more you hear the Bell like.

the more you want to keep going because. you don't want to be a bell guy you want. to be a seal and so it was kind of. empowering in the early parts of hell. week when it's so chaotic and it's so. noisy and hard that me and my buddy. right next to me we're just like. laughing because it's like this is [ __ ]. Insanity like what's even happening. right now everybody's quitting and. getting a fire hose in my face it's just. like chaos so I I think that I I I I. tried to appreciate the moment it was. horrible and miserable and all those. things but it was also like a dream come. true in a way and so it that kept me.

around and then also you know I was. married and I didn't want my wife who. had moved out to San Diego by this point. or she was about to and like reoriented. her life to be a part of this with me I. didn't want to quit and be stuck in the. Navy for four years so I had that as a. very powerful motivator and then also my. dad you know proving my dad wrong that I. could become a seal it allowed me to to. get through hell week and relatively e. easily in the sense that I I I survived. hell week you know I guess looking I.

haven't thought about hell week in a. long time but you know it is. a in a weird way it is. a somewhat of a simulation of combat. because you want to go you want nobody. becomes a seal not wanting to go to war. at least not that I've met and. and and there's all this anticipation to. get a war just like hell week you know. that's the first big step and then you.

get there and you're like oh this does. suck yeah but I'm I'm happy to be here. and I'm glad we're in the I'm glad we're. in the moment in the fight here and then. a couple days goes by and you're like I. just want to go home and get some. [ __ ] hot. chow and and and I'm tired of the and uh. it is it is. a the experience. although how different it is it is it is. a good simulation it's a good test um I.

think that's true you know what did you. have any big Hang-Ups in hell week did. you have a moment where you're like I'm. I don't care anymore I'm. done the only point that I would say and. I again I didn't come close to quitting. and I'm not saying that to be tough M. but I definitely had moments of I don't. know if I can do this like physically I. don't don't know if I'm capable of doing. this and it. was after our first nap so you have I. believe it's two or three naps that are.

broken up into one or two hours um that. you you you don't nap the first 72 hours. you're you're awake for 3 days then you. take a nap and then there's some other. space of time 24 hours or whatever you. take another nap but these naps are. horrible I mean for anybody that's gone. any amount of time with real sleep. deprivation when you get to go to sleep. finally you don't want to get woken up. like when you're in the middle of REM. sleep or your deep sleep you want to. sleep you need to. sleep and the first time I took a nap it.

was so amazing to be told get in the. cotton sleep for two hours you're lucky. you're you're like oh thank God and you. get in the cotton you're asleep within. like a millisecond but then waking up to. the sound of your instructors like a it. felt like a second later telling you to. jump in the ocean and you're like that's. what you do during hell week you're. constantly jumping in the ocean that's. buds basically but you dried off by this. point it's really the first time in 7 2. hours or in the the space of time that. you've been going and going and going. that you're really dry now and so to. have to get in the water when you're dry.

and you're chaed from the salt water it. felt like acid being poured over your. crotch that was the most sensitive area. and it do if you want to see a guy who. just been through hell week for the. audience look at their thighs because. they'll be like four times the size of a. normal thigh because they're so chaed. from rubbing together with all the salt. water and sand and so you develop these. just horrible lesions on the inside of. your leg that's just chafe and then. jumping in salt waterer it really felt. like battery acid being poured on my. crotch and there's actually we had a.

professional photographer I'll send you. the pictures to there you can actually. you'll probably be looking at this as. you're watching this episode um but. there's a picture of us of my class as. we're running out of the surf it's broad. daylight we're not even doing anything. hard we're like lightly jogging up the. beach but what people don't know is. we've just woken up from our nap and you. can see in the picture several people. are are actively crying they're not. screaming in pain they are crying. because it is so painful and I was one. of those guys where I it was so painful.

tears were welling up in my eyes just. from Pain and I'm like and now I have to. do three more days of this so that was. horrible that was the most pain I. experienced in buds was the chafing. saltwater post Snap easily but then like. a minute later you have a freaking boat. on your head and you're like doing the. oor and you've forgotten about it and. you just keep on going yeah yeah would. you say that not letting your old man. down was your primary motivator at the. time it was less not letting him down. and more proving him wrong which is a. distinction it was it was like a pride.

thing um I would say that it was really. an equal it was a lot my wife because at. the time I felt like I had made a. promise to her that I'm going to give. this my best who knows what that is but. it's going to be my best effort because. if I don't and I don't make it through. training our life really becomes a big. question mark you know not only will I. be thrust into the Navy as an. undesignated sailor who makes no money. and has no purpose and we're kind of. screwed but we could get shipped to like. Japan and be stuck there for a few years. and I just felt like my wife had.

committed to me and believed in me and. and even though she made the comment. about my bicep she quickly adapted the. mindset of he's going to do just fine um. and so I felt like I really owed it to. her to not to make it so much but to to. not quit if you can't do something and. that's the issue and you get Dro for. that I'm okay with that but if I quit no. matter how how hard it is I'm letting my. wife down and that's what I wrote her. name in my hat you know going into hell. week and so hers was a I owe it to her. and our future family and my dad was.

like something I couldn't shake like I. can't believe that mother doesn't think. I can do this I'm going to prove him. wrong so it was really my wife that I. actively thought about and then in my. subconscious I think I had you know. years later I was able to see it for. what it was but at the time it was like. a subconscious desire to just be like. see Dad I did become a seal interesting. interesting so let's fast forward to the. did you you have any hallucinations in. hell week by yeah I I on the when you. paddle around Coronado on like I think.

one of the last nights of training. around the world it's called um you know. you've been awake for 4 days barrowing a. couple of naps which don't do enough to. reset you and you know you're by. yourself with your boat crew there's. five of you or six of you how many. people anyway it's a small number of you. you're all delirious and you have to. paddle around like 18 miles of Coronado. or whatever it is and it takes all night. and no one knows what's going going on. because you're like hallucinating and so. we just start veering out into the. middle of the ocean and there's really. no oversight either I'm sure there is.

I'm sure the instructors are are. managing it really really well but it. just kind of feels like how are they. letting students who are basically. insane at this point just go paddle out. in the ocean in the middle of the night. and just go around Coronado but we were. like we were paddled underneath the. Coronado Bridge and I was absolutely. convinced and couldn't be told otherwise. that they were cyclists biking off of. the Coronado Bridge into the water not. committing suicide but somehow magically. biking like an invisible Road into the. water and I was like dude look at this. like when did they put this in like. where where's this.

road and they're like what what there's. a troll over there you know so it's just. there was definitely a lot of. hallucinations for sure and actually. even though this is not a first phase. thing one thing you said did I have any. Hang-Ups in hell week I actually have a. huge thing that happened to me in third. phase that did nearly in my mind like. almost end my career before it started. um so we get through hell week you know. finish first phase and then the second. phase is dive phase I'm maybe we'll.

touch on this afterwards but third phase. of buds training is really at that point. you're going to be a seal barring a. safety violation or making some really. stupid mistake once you've reached third. phase and you got your red helmet you're. they call you basically a team guy. you're going to be a seal so you're. you're in right and so the instructors. in third phase view you differently than. the instructors in first phase face. because now they're looking at you as a. very likely potential teammate and they. even though they're instructors now are.

going to rotate back into a platoon and. they might literally be your teammate. not like your boss but your teammate on. actual operations and so they're viewing. you differently they're sizing you up. differently and so third phase it's more. about proving that you really deserve to. be here and proving that you actually. are learning how to be tactically sound. as a seal whereas first phase is like a. gut check are you tough you know third. phase is can you be a. seal and in third phase a big part of. the training is they send you out to San. Clemente Island off the coast of.

California where there's this compound. just for third phase and it's four weeks. of you know seven days a week training. on uh you know ordinance or on on you. know we did shooting and we did. explosives but there is a week your. confidence week in on San Clemente. Island that I think happens on your. first week and they bring you out to. this field this is your you're out at. San Clemente you know you know you got a. few weeks to go you're going to graduate. it's all going to be good and they bring. you out to this field and they have CS.

gas so tear gas and this is for those. who are not who've never been who've. never experienced tear gas uh there's. different scales to how much tear gas. but generally once you inhale tear gas. it's like your your your Ducks just open. up and liquid begins pouring out of your. face you can't breathe it's like your. body feels like it's on fire that's the. gist of tear gas if you've never been. you've never experienced itad and so in. Navy boot camp and I think in all boot. camps they make you go through the tear. gas you go into a gas chamber and you.

got your mask on and they fire off a. couple of pellets these little baby. pellets of Cs gas and you take off your. mask and you you put your recruit cup. underneath your mouth as your your snot. comes out and you have to say your name. or whatever and you run out of the room. but it's short you're only exposed to CS. gas in boot camp for like 5 seconds it's. super short in buds in third phase. you're going to sit here and take this. entire F canister for like 3 minutes and. the way they do it is they they and I. know you've obviously done this this is. for the benefit of the audience they put. you in this Square where you're all like.

in formation and you take a KN you're. all all tied up against each other and. there's like 30 of us or 50 of us and. the instructors have these pool sticks. that you use to clean the the pool with. but they remove the head and they they. tape on like multiple CS grenades and. they got their they got their their gas. mask on and they're all laughing they. think this is so funny they got their. cameras out and they're like all right. take a knee and so everyone takes a knee. in the field and they're like there's. only one rule don't. run and they hold out their CS gas they.

hold their gas mask on and it's a sea of. white just encompassing the group and I. was on the edge of the square and figh. ORF flight kicked in and I sprinted. without even thinking I'm talking like I. probably experienced he going it was. like .1 seconds into this event and I am. up and running and got absolutely. speared by my instructor like tackled. hard to the ground and then he had to. hold me down cuz I was panicking like I. felt like I was dying from my.

millisecond of Cs gats okay and I had to. lay there and he was like get back in. the group get back in the group and I. was like no I won't like I I was saying. no and he's like are you doing and I was. like no I'm just not getting back in. that group and they were like didn't. know what to do with me and so I'm. laying there mortified cuz my class no. one else ran they're just taking it like. Champs just like d from the Cs guas and. it was this long long long time and at. the end of it it's like the instructors. were so proud of them not me the class.

they're like good job guys you proved it. like you're so tough like go jump in the. water and wash off and everyone's like. yeah we did it and I'm like the guy that. didn't do it and so we and this is this. is like day five of 30 of being out here. full-time seven days a week with your. class and your instructors who again are. looking at you as okay you've made it. past the tough test but can you be a. seal and this is like the biggest of red. flags and so we ran back from this this. you know confidence test to the.

classroom and we go in and everyone sits. down and I'm like hiding in like the. back row you know trying to show my face. and our most hated instructor I still. hate this guy I'm not going to say who. he is I hate this guy he comes in the. room he goes where's. Allan he's like you're a he's like if. you're ever on my team I will knock go. out the door with you and no one here no. one in here should you and I was. like great this is day five and my class.

to their credit they understood I was. now a pariah I was a pariah on third. phase completely and most of the people. who I spent my time with were like I'm. still your boy like they they stuck it. out with me even though it didn't help. them to be around me I had to wear so we. wore our Cami uniform during the day I. had to wear those UD t- shorts over my. pants to signy that I was a and ran from. CS gas and so I am walking around with. effectively a bikini over my my pants.

and so it's a constant reminder of like. you don't want to be like him you don't. want to be around him but what it did. for me is it was so embarrassing like on. a level that few things have ever come. close that it forced me to just own it. to be like yeah I did run from the Cs. gas and I wish I hadn't what do you want. me to do yeah you know like I can't. change what what happened you know and. so instead I really poured my energy. into people are going to think whatever. they think about me I'm just going to. try to do the best I can at the thing.

I'm being told to do and as a result my. ego like fell to the floor and I became. like a really good teammate you know I I. don't I don't even think I was a great. teammate before that happened I needed. to be like aggressively like humbled to. realize like I am playing a role at the. Seal team I am not the seal I'm a guy. I'm going to go do the jobs and help my. team and do whatever I can because it's. all I can do with this this point I. don't my reputation is dog now and then. it was like we come back from the island. so St Clemente Island and and you know.

weeks went by you know we got past the. Cs gas thing and then finally when we we. wrapped up I I had done a good job on. the island from that point forward and. people had kind of gotten around to okay. that's fine but I got back to the the. mainland and no one knew anything about. what happened out on our class's Island. trip and very quickly people from my. class Allen ran from the Cs gas and. everybody knows what that means and so. all over again I came back to San cl to. Coronado and I had people being like. youing [ __ ] like [ __ ] you and it was. like great and now I'm going to go check.

into sqt and go be the best seal I can. be and every think I'm a um that sucked. that sucked hard but it was actually I. think an important part of my journey. into the SEAL Teams because it just. showed like dude doesn't take much to Fu. this up like you need to be a good. teammate and be supportive and like do. the right thing and and that's all you. can do and I think it like forced me to. do that. interesting wow that's uh that's. humbling very humbling remember I was.

out to eat with a guy who I don't like. uh who was in my class with me he was. one of the guys that began telling. others about the Cs gas thing and I. didn't tell my wife about it because I. was embarrassed about it I like hey how'. third face go well let me tell you about. how I ran from the Cs gas and I remember. we're sitting at the table and there was. like 20 of us at the table was a big. like you know post you know butt. graduation dinner and this guy like made. a whole story about what a puss I was in. front of my wife and I wanted to kill.

this kid and to this day I hold a grudge. against this kid for shaming me in front. of my wife wow wow did you have to wear. the the UDT shorts over the cammies the. entire the entirety of third phase the. entire time yeah although it lost its. embarrassment by the end it was just my. uniform oh there's alen he's got two. shorts on man man yeah it was tough it. was tough man I I I actually ran into. and this is this is one thing this is I.

don't know how what what I think of this. but I ran into my instructor uh who I. really didn't like who called me. although In fairness from his. perspective I can understand where he's. coming from but uh I had heard he had. just been demoted I think he had like. lost his bird or something because he. had like some stuff up and we didn't. talk about that but I was able to say. hey what's going on and I know I'm doing. well in my life and I'm looking at him I. know he's not doing so well and I was. like hey good to see you man yeah I'm. out of the teams what are you doing oh. cool man nice nice to see you bud so. made me feel.

good let's um let's go back dive phase. yeah you really you were really worried. about the underwater being comfortable. in there pool comp yep pool comp is I'll. let you describe it yeah so um I started. with class 289 in uh I guess the spring. of 2011 I finished hell week with that. class which is really the it marks. basically the end of first phase there's. I think there's actually a couple of. weeks that follow hell week now but once.

you finish hell week it's kind of like. the end of first phase and you're. getting ready to go to dive phase um but. when I finished hell week I had um cyp. so swimmer induced pulmonary edema it's. a common thing in Buds where if you are. wet all the time uh it can create this. pink frothy sputum in your lungs I guess. basically it's a very buds specific. injury where your your lungs filled with. fluid and it reduces your ability to. breathe in all the way and so you're. like gassed you'd never have any energy.

um and so I had Cy and the reason I. found out is when we were post hell week. just walking from place to place because. it's the only time in in buds you're. allowed to walk is the week following. hell week the rest of the time your. class runs between Evolutions all day. long and usually with a 200lb boat on. your head but during walk week Postell. week I wasn't able to keep up with my. class. who were walking and I didn't know why. I'm like I can't breathe and so I get. rolled I get rolled into the next class. for medical like you got swimmer and de.

pulmonary edema you can't continue you. will start with the next class 290 uh. when they reach Postell week so you'll. start Postell week and so I it was a. huge bummer to lose your class this are. the guys I went through boot camp with. and like these are my guys I went. through hell week with it was it was a. bummer to be rolled but I get into class. 290 and I love the dudes who were in. that class you know I knew a lot of them. and we get into die phase that I. finished out you know first phase with. them and we went into second phase die. phase and second phase is it's a lot of.

easy underwater stuff and a couple of. really hard underwater things and the. two really hard ones are the tread where. you put twin 80 tanks on your backs. those are scuba tanks that are neutral. in the water but when you put them on on. land they feel like they're about 100 lb. um and you get in the pool and you have. to put your hands up out of the water. and you got no fins on and you do have a. weight belt on and you got to tread with. your head and hand or your hands out of. the water for 5 minutes and that's just.

a put out it's a it's a put out. Evolution as they say where there's no. way to train for it it just sucks and. you got to just keep doing it I was able. to do that um barely like head is almost. underwater as I'm finishing but then. when we got to the second hard part. which in my opinion is probably the. hardest part of buds is pool comp I. think it is because it's skill on top of. grit it's like you're combining a couple. things at once so for those who don't. know what pool comp is uh it stands for. pool.

competency and you go through this these. evolutions of movements underwater to. learn how to scuba dive the first one is. they call it uh oc1 is its name and all. you do is then that stands for open. circuit one and the whole class has to. pass it where you jump in the water you. got your scuba tanks on and I think you. basically just sink to the bottom you. breathe for a couple of seconds you like. you give the the okay to your instructor. to show you can do it and you go back to. the surface it's like as routine as it. gets and then it's like okay you did. that now we're going to do oc2 and it's. like now you're going to get in and do a.

front flip on top of breathing and it's. a progression of things that they teach. you how to do and and they're all easy. it's like some of them are a little. complicated where you got to exchange. Gear with a buddy and then you got to do. it with your glasses blacked out but. again it's it's not stressful it's just. just going through the motions of. learning how to do stuff underwater and. then it's like okay now we're just going. to do OC oc8 it's called that's actually. all it's called oc8 pool comp whatever. it is and you're like how how could it. be so hard these these first seven have. been so easy like this is just the the. the next thing we're going to do but no.

oc8 is like a billion times harder than. all of the others put together because. it's basically like a drowning. simulation you have 20 minutes that. you're going to be underwater where. probably about half of that you're going. to be without air where you go in the. water and you have your tanks on you got. your weight belt on and you you crawl to. the middle of the pool where there's a. lane marker in the middle of the pool on. the ground and you're told that you're. going to basically crawl on your hands. and knees from one end of this Lane. marker all the way to the end of the. other lane marker back and forth so it's. like you know a space of 20 ft let's say.

and you're just walking you're crawling. back and forth and you can't really do. anything except crawl around and then at. some point your instructors come down. there's two of them that work together. and they start just with you ripping off. your mouthpiece tying knots in your. hoses and ripping your weight belt off. and and anytime you get attacked by your. instructor you can't do anything. anything you fail the test if you react. to your instructor all you do is fetal. position and wait and you just hope you. got enough air to do it and then when.

the attack stops you have to make sure. it's done and then you follow this. procedure which is the same every single. time you have to show your instructors. that no matter how stressed you are you. can follow this procedure until you. can't anymore and I can even still do it. now it's like the first thing you do is. you know you you secure your air source. you can't now now I can't so I'm it up. but it's like you reach back you turn. your air on the way quarter turn back. Trace to your J valve flip the J valve. up go to your straps trace your straps. make sure there's 2 in here go down. Trace here here here there's all these.

things you check and a lot of it is like. procedural like make sure your straps. not twisted and you know make sure your. hoses are good but you have to follow it. in a very particular order and if. anything is missed even if it's like. your strap was twisted and you didn't. you didn't find that and you didn't fix. it even though it wouldn't have saved. your life that counts as a hit and too. many hits you fail the test and so I air. yeah all without I mean you're going. realistically probably 30 seconds to a. minute without air I would say on. average between each hit and it's a. 20-minute test so but um I was so bad at.

this I was so bad at pool comp and it's. was from panicking that's why the pure. and simple I got underwater I know the. procedures I can do them on land easy as. pie like the easiest thing in the world. it's you memorize it it's the same. procedures no matter how extreme your. problem is even if they've like ripped. your hoses out the the thing you've been. taught to do if you follow it will. eventually reach that point and it will. fix the problem you have it works every. time and I can do it but put me.

underwater when I'm stressed out. underwater and I forget everything and I. miserably failed the first four attempts. Miser like I got rolled for performance. I could not pass pool comp you get now. it's different at the time you were. given four chances to pass pool comp in. your class and so it's like you have two. attempts on one day and that's on a. Friday and then you have the weekend to. practice and then you do two more. attempts on that Monday and if you don't. pass you can't continue with the class.

and so I failed the first two like. instantly I go down I'm crawling they. hit me and I'm to the. surface and they're like the thing is is. you're breathing compressed air and. you're only at 9 ft of seawater or of. water but there's a risk of arterial gas. embolism and AG I think that's what it. is although it remains to be seen if it. can actually happen in 9 ft of water but. basically when you're breathing. compressed air if you move really. quickly to the surface with air in your. lungs I think it can perforate your. lungs and can kill you it's like an.

arterial gas embolism if you look it up. AG it's a big deal and so there's this. rule in second phase that even if you're. panicking there is a real Hazard if you. try to Rocket to the surface in the. middle of doing these tests and I. rocketed to the surface to the point. where they're holding me underwater to. get me from not going too quick to the. surface and I'm fighting to get to the. surface like one second into the test. and they film these tests and so. afterwards I'm sitting in the classroom. reviewing the footage with my classmates. like all right alen Allan your turn oh.

Jesus dude you are not looking good down. there so it went horrible the first two. attempts and it went so badly that that. weekend was horrible I'm thinking to. myself like I wasn't even close I. instantly panicked like I can't do this. I can't do this that's what I felt like. and I think I was just very demoralized. I just I really had convinced myself. that this isn't for me I I I cannot do. this test not the seals but this test in. particular and sure enough Monday rolled. around and I had like the worst attitude. it was like I'm probably going to fail.

and what do you think happened I failed. the test and so after failing those two. attempts they send you to a review board. where basically your instructors and the. people who run the phase decide your. fate or are they going to roll you or. are they going to kick you out of the. course you know there's a bunch of. things they can do and for me I had. already been medically rolled following. hell week from the swimmer induced. pulmonary edema and the way it works in. buds at least at the time is you're only. allowed to be rolled a total of two. times one medically and one for. performance if even if you shatter your.

leg multiple times and it's not your. fault if it falls outside of that one. medical rle you get kicked from the. course it's it's just the rules and so I. had already used my medical role for cyp. and now I've miserably failed pool comp. and I wasn't close and the instructors. who are viewing me who are making this. decision they're the ones that tested me. and they're like you were a panicky sh. show down there and they were very. unsure about even giving me a. performance role cuz they're like dude. you got rolled once medically you're not.

close on pool comp we feel like if we. give you this chance you're not going to. make it like it's not worth it and they. weren't even being jerks about it it was. just kind of like we need to make a. decision here and so I I I don't even. know what I said but I clearly conveyed. to them that I am so serious please give. me another chance like let me try. again and they did they gave me another. chance obviously and what I did is I. went into the next class so I got rolled. a second time and I had to wait it was. embarrassing too being rolled twice is. not something you like to be known for. cuz no matter what the reasons are it.

just sounds like really you shouldn't be. here then you shouldn't have enrolled. twice um but I classed into the next. class at 291 and instead of being scared. of pool comp I kind of embraced the fact. that I sucked at pool comp and and I. went to my new class who've never. experienced pool comp they're just. getting to second phase and instead of. doing that gatekeeping [ __ ] that the. white shirts did when I got the Coronado. and they're like oh boy I've done 5. minutes of buds it's going to be so bad. I was kind of like I'm a panicky mess. I'm telling my new class this I'm a. panicky mess if I wasn't I bet pool comp.

would be very doable so if you're. somebody that's relatively comfortable. in the water you'll be fine and I was. able also because I had done four. attempts to actually show the class how. to do pool comp because I've done it. already terribly but I knew the. procedures and so I wound up being like. a source of help to my class and it. really endeared me to my class they. looked at me not as who the is this dude. who just keeps failing pool comp and why. is he here too oh that's cool like he's. helping us and I like took them out to a. pool and like we did the procedures and.

it it gave me some not even confidence. but it gave me purpose within the class. and it it allowed me to when it came. time to actually do pool comp with this. class I just went in with a very. different attitude although ironically I. go in with this new attitude I'm like. I'm ready for this you know my whole. life has brought me to this moment I'm. ready and I failed my first two attempts. on things that were nothing to do with. Panic it was just stupidity like I I. didn't find a a twisted strap and I. failed the test for that one hit that's. it I did an entire 20 minutes I did the.

whole test and he's like you did a great. job but since this is like your 50th. attempt you can't pass because you. [ __ ] up the strap I'm like okay and so. I go back and again and it was the same. instructor who oh it wasn't the same. instructor it was a different instructor. and it was the same thing I had missed a. small thing and I didn't do the whole 20. minutes I it up bad enough that he. pulled me to the surface but it was kind. of like dude you know how to do the test. but you're screwing up because you're. rushing and so I had another weekend. where I'm like I can't believe I'm. already about I'm gonna fail it again. I'm gonna get kicked out of butts this.

is it and that was like the worst. weekend of my life because I really felt. ready for the test now I I had now done. you know 40 minutes collectively of pool. comp I'm like ready and so I went in. that Monday and I can tell you that it's. the only time in my life where it was a. complete dude if I have to die to pass. this test that's what I'm going to do. and when I got in the water I couldn't. have been more calm I got to the I got. to my lane and it was absolute flow it. was the easiest test it was honest to. God it was like relaxing it was I was so.

focused on doing what I was supposed to. do that all the nerves went and I passed. and the guy that passed me he at the. time had this reputation of being the. hardest test and he even was like dude. you look like a guy who's done this. seven times he's like you did a good. job so I passed that uh and then frankly. with the exception of the Cs gas thing. which happened in the next phase the. rest of buds was frankly about what to. be expected pretty easy hard but doable. right on so graduation you gradu let's.

actually let's go to sqt you know you. get through. sqt you get your Trident yep big deal oh. yeah what did that feel. like who's your first. call so I was as as you know when you're. going through buds so for those that. don't know you know there really are a. couple of moments in the entire like. year and a half twoyear pipeline of boot. camp to actual seal that everybody knows. are like the hardest parts of training. you have the 50 meter you have hell week.

you have pool comp there's a few others. the tread actually is it definitely gets. some people as well and there's some. other things too and as a student you're. very aware of those milestones and so I. was communicating to my family the the. weight of these these milestones and. then when I passed them my family knew. that this is really significant if he. passed hell week like that's a big deal. if if he passes pool comp that's a. really big deal and so by the time I. graduated it was already a foregone. conclusion it was more just ceremony to. get my Trident we knew I was our class.

we all knew we would be seals like by. the end of third third phase and so now. it's just a matter of let's get really. good at this sqt seal qualification. training is really just learning the. actual tactics to a degree um but I. would say that even though I felt like a. seal to to some degree before I got my. rent the weekend of your graduation is. just the most glorious thing I mean you. have struggled and been miserable for so. long and there's so many opportunities.

to fail and have setbacks and not make. it to when you get when you have to go. to the dry cleaners to get the Trident. put on your uniform you can't wear them. yet but you got to be ready for the next. week because you're graduating on a. Friday you're going to be a seal on. Monday I remember I got those those the. dry cleaning back and it had Allen and. the and the Trident and I just put it in. my closet and for like an hour I just. sat on my bed and stared at uniform I. couldn't believe that it was Allen and a. trident like it was Unreal U I think I. took pictures of it and sent it to my. family um but I I I'm pretty sure I.

called my dad and not to be a dick but. to be like yeah I graduate on Friday I'd. love for you guys to come out and be a. part of this thing and he was incredibly. proud obviously um and admittedly you. know by this point I think that he was. seeing that I was kind of I'm a very. different person than he is and these. are things that I want to do and and. like that's just who I am and he's just. very impressed and man walking up to the. to the podium or whatever it was and. they put your little Trident in it's not. blood wings but they you know they put. them on your shirt uh it it was a. crowning achievement and one that it.

goes unrivaled in my life as in terms of. just pure achievement it was just. incredible I I wish I wish everybody. could experience setting that big of a. goal for yourself and then working your. face off and then actually achieving it. but publicly it's like the most glorious. thing in the world yeah you're like I. did it I did it it's so cool how was the. life so happy so proud um I think also. there's an element of you know when when. these wives go with their husbands to to.

training nobody knows who's going to. make it and so it's this weird almost. holding pattern for the partners because. they don't know what's going to happen. and a lot of them will not make it and. they'll have to go some other place and. so by the time you're you're going to be. a seal it's like the wives become more. friendly with each other because now. they know we're really going to be seals. we're going our families are going to be. in the community and so there's a lot. there's stability that comes with it and. there's no more questioning whether. we're going to even be in this community. at all it's just going to be well where. do you want to go Virginia or San Diego.

or you know Hawaii if you want to go to. the SB team and so I think it was the. first time that we felt like okay you. know we're adults and we have our life. now and we have the things we're going. to do and we can begin to build together. and it was exciting it felt like we had. became adults good good for you man on. that note let's take a break let's do it. we're done with training and when we. come back we'll pick up up at I think. you went to Seal Team 2 Seal Team 2 yeah. we'll get into that in combat. sick it's that time of year again where.

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the first day just go to this exclusive. web address to try zi recruiter for free. ziprecruiter.com. SRS once again that's ziprecruiter.com. SRS ZipRecruiter the smartest way to. hire this episode is sponsored by better. help it can be easy to ignore our social. battery and spread ourselves thin. especially with social Gatherings. picking up after the winter maybe you. thrive around people or maybe you need.

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getting ready to check into Seal Team to. so let's CH let's talk about what that. checkin was like for you dude the. checkin was the most intimidating thing. ever uh I so Seal Team 2 is located in. Virginia Beach this is totally public so. it's in Virginia Beach and uh so we. graduated sqt so became SE in September. of 2011. 2012 then we went to language school so. for a few months we did Language School. in San Diego is that a new thing it they.

did it briefly and it was so ineffective. I believe they stopped doing it okay so. I was fary so man forgot far that's. about the extent of my language I can. only speak farsy but I. can't and I think Mandu Lan Mandu. the one thing that I got really good was. I would ask my instructor can I please. go to the bathroom that was the only. thing I. said all the time so I was like back to.

my punk kid ways in language school but. anyways I finished language school and. and honestly it was it was awesome. because it was like three months of. getting to be a seal but without any. seals around you it was just you and. your class so I'm top of the world. feeling really good and you know as you. knew as you know a lot of guys that go. to the east coast teams from getting. their trident in San Diego they they. drive they make it a whole trip they. just drive across country and they check. in at the East Coast team you know a. couple weeks later cuz you're given a. couple of weeks to get there and so.

that's what me and my wife and my three. cats did uh or two cats at the time we. just piled into our truck we didn't even. have a truck cover which is so dumb but. it's we we just put all our stuff like. Tetris in the bed of the truck and just. hoped it didn't fall out and we're. driving the entire way across the. country and at night we would have to. stop at motels and take all the stuff. out because we were scared it would get. stolen into the motel with our two cats. that were like running all around so it. was a great trip uh but we drove to to. Virginia and when we got there we had.

the option to Che I had the option to. check in at Seal Team 2 so basically. just say hey I'm here and I'm ready to. be a part of the team now either on I. think it was like that Friday that we. got there or by no later than you know. that Monday let's say all the all that. all all that mattered is I had an. opportunity because I got to Virginia a. little bit early to check in a little. bit. and I was told that if you did that it's. unlikely that the seals Who currently. are at the team that they would be there. that you'd have this like vacant. building you can go in you can speak to.

the the admin check in get your. paperwork and get the out of there. before anybody sees you because you're. brand new you don't want to like get. into a conversation with people quite. yet and so I remember I was like I'm. going to go in early I'm going to get. this over with and I'm going to go hang. out with my family for a couple of days. and then I'll begin work on Monday and. so I I pull into this parking lot and so. you get a so Seal Team to it it it. doesn't look in any way spectacular it's. just a you know three-story building. with barely any Windows big gray tan. just box but it's surrounded by like all. these fences and there's all these guard.

posts and stuff around it and it's on a. base I mean you've already gone through. levels of security to get here and now. there's more levels of security for this. somewhat you know ambiguous looking. building there is a seal team logo on it. but it doesn't look that important but. it's this really important place that's. full of secret stuff and so I'm parked. outside of this other series of gates. I'm going to have to go through to get. to Seal Team 2 and I'm sitting in my. black F-150 got my dress blue uniforms. on uniform on that I was so proud of but.

now suddenly I'm like I'm such a. impostor I got no ribbons you know it's. like my Trident and like my Marksmanship. from boot camp is all I have on my my. uniform and I I sat in that that car. staring at Seal Team 2 for probably like. an hour or two just too scared to just. go inside but finally I was like all. right you just got to do it because it's. going to be whatever it's going to be. and so I get up to the gate and of. course I can't get it to open because I. don't have the code or anything so I'm. like ringing the doorbell you know. trying to get people's attention and. finally the person on the quarter deck.

came out and they're like who the are. you what are you doing they know I'm a. new check and I'm wearing dress blues. and it's a team guy who's dressed in. civilian clothes I don't know who they. are and and they're like yeah get out of. here dude like they're fighting with me. they just get out of here and I'm like. all right so I like go back to my truck. what do I do like what do I do do I do I. leave I can't get in and so finally I. waited until I saw somebody else going. in and it was a guy dressed in civilian. clothes and I'm like okay it's just some. random D I'll just go with him so I ran. up and I'm like hey dude sorry I'm just. trying to get in here and he turns to. look at me and I realize immediately.

this is not just some normal guy he's. dressed in civilian clothes but he's got. this massive deployment beard and he has. a scar running from this part of his. face to this part of his face like fresh. it looks horrible just like an action. movie Scar across his face clearly this. is a seal who's going back in and he. just came back from deployment and he. looked at me and he's like are you. [ __ ] new and I was like yeah I'm new. he's like all I'll show you around so he. ended up being cool but he brought me. inside and it was like all the seals. that had just got back from Afghanistan. were here today and they're in civilian.

clothes and they're in their like op. cammies and I am the most obviously. brand new Navy SEAL and there was no. other new check-ins I'm the only checkin. nobody else was there and so I got. called into every team room like sing a. song sing a song John go ahead like. singing. songs and I introduce yourself oh my God. and and then I got to my platoon and you. know my platoon had just come back from. this like pretty gnarly deployment I. mean they that I think three or four.

people got shot I don't think anyone got. killed but uh there was several people. that lost legs and limbs I mean it was a. pretty gnarly deployment and the guy who. had the cross the cut on his face and. IED had blown up in front of his face. and he ended up losing his eyes he's. blind now um or he's mostly blind. anyways uh so I I'm like in this room. with these guys that are literally fresh. off the battlefield they're not even in. like a jokey mood either they're just. annoyed that I'm here with them and they. have to like talk to me and it was just.

so intensely uncomfortable being in that. space with them cuz I just felt like I. felt like I had become a seal and I felt. really proud of that but there's a. difference between you went through. training and you've integrated into an. actual Seal Team and they are so far. apart you know what I mean and so uh it. was just like crazy intimidating it was. a it was a long day of being embarrassed. but I also felt like like I had an. advantage come Monday because when. Monday came around and all the new guys. showed up I was a sort of not new guy. cuz I had been hazed all day Friday so I.

got to walk in be like hey what's going. on guys here for day two you. know yeah but it was it was wild I mean. the the check-in day was I remember all. of it it was just so so intimidating but. then I would say that it was so cool to. then eventually integrate and be a part. of the team and to get to go into work. and and be a everybody knows you work. there and you're supposed to be there. and they want to work with you like. that's such a cool feeling to be in this. really exclusive community that you're.

wanted and expected to be there I mean. it just gives you this profound sense of. purpose and accomplishment and getting. to work with some of the most like just. intensely competitive and successful. people that are so good it was awesome. man it was awesome I mean there's huge. downsides to the teams but there's also. huge upsides to being around such high. performers and being a part of the team. not being on the outside but being in. that team it's like. addicting what what part of the so they. were in the they were at the very.

beginning of the cycle so the for those. that don't know maybe it was different I. was out by the time that you were in but. the cycle was prodev which is basically. checking in off time going to specialty. school sniper breacher whatever comms. jtech all kinds of schools yeah then you. do your workup that's what 6 months 6mon. workup where you're actually training. within your platoon getting ready to. kind of go out the door you know it's.

you're working all the Kinks out as a. team you're doing assault you're doing. lamb Warfare a Ops marops all kinds of. that kind of stuff and then you move. into I can't remember what sit sit where. you're basically now you might be. working with an Oda team or a ranger. element or uh Poss possibly doing some. integration work with Dev group um. people that you that are going to be on. deployment in the same areas as you and.

and you're also it's kind of on standby. in case you have to go early and so you. got a full cycle I did I I I got there. when the platoon I was joining was. actually returning from their last. deployment and so I got the nice long. post- deployment break which effectively. was prodev um where I was able to go to. a couple schools nothing major just like. you know dive supervisor school or. something uh and then when prodev. started in Earnest I got to meet my. platoon and we everybody went to their. schools and then by the time you know. the actual workup unit Level Training UL.

started um I mean I was I had known the. team for you know four five six months. and UL was awesome I mean my first UL. with that platoon was it was so cool cuz. now you're basically doing sqt all over. again with all these different blocks of. training from jumping to diving all this. different stuff but you're doing it with. guys that have done it in war and it it. was just fascinating to see the. difference between pure Schoolhouse. stuff where this is how you do CQC do it. this way to nah that's not how we do it.

it's like if you're by yourself you're. going to do a oneman room entry like. it's not allowed but this is how you do. it or like no in this situation you. would do this it's like you're seeing. the the reality of what they do and. seeing it being employed in actual like. training and seeing them defeating you. know the people we were up against the. role players with these like cool guy. tactics it was like so cool like wow. they learn these things on the. battlefield and I was also just so. impressed by the older guys because we. had a really really good group in our.

platoon of senior enlisted guys who were. very experienced but very humble and. kept the platoon completely in lock upep. nobody [ __ ] off people were like. really good they they always cleaned. their weapons they always did the right. thing and so that's why we I think very. likely got tapped ultimately to go to. Afghanistan because our platoon was just. I think we were very dialed in and they. thought we could handle it when did you. find out you were going to. Afghanistan so we so we check in I. checked in in December of 2012 and then.

I didn't deploy to Afghanistan until. October of 13 so it was like you know. basically was that a year no I checked. in December of 2012 and then it was yeah. October 13 what's the time on that was. it UL or like what phase of the cycle. was it it was UL okay so latter half of. so so we we are deep into ul and we. actually were expecting to go to South. America and our platoon would get broken. up into basically different Jets all. over South America so it was looking.

like a you know a non-combat deployment. an important one you know things to do. but not. combat um but there was someone from. Team two from our troop so in our troop. there was three platoon uh I don't want. to get two technical but we knew. somebody was going to get to go to. Afghanistan probably but we didn't know. who and it came down to out of the three. platoon that were in our troop so we. were in one troop there was alpha bravo. charlie I was Charlie platoon it came. down to which two of the three are going.

to get to go and it just came down to. Performance and a couple there was a. couple people that actually got in. trouble that hurt their platoon chances. But ultimately it was maybe around the. CQC phase so like latter half of UL that. word came in I remember I got a text. like we're going to Afghanistan and it's. going to happen and we were only. maybe a few months away from. deployment and I was so excited I mean. that that was just so exciting and I. think that only people that have been in.

the military and got to go to war could. really understand the the mentality of. why you might be excited to do that. because obviously War comes with lots of. bad things even for people that want to. go I mean there's death there's there's. all these different. things but you spend all this time and. energy training for war effectively and. to be given the opportunity to go employ. the skill set that you worked so hard to. train that's pretty cool I mean it's. morbid but it's it's cool and I mean.

that that was the feeling amongst our. platoon as we hit the. jackpot um and when we went to. Afghanistan in October of. 13 I mean we were going to a site that. was relatively kinetic but not not. kinetic in the sense that the guys who. were there before us they did get in. gunfights at least periodically but when. we got there our our our internal. leadership like our senior enlisted guys. and our our chief they were really. really good at writing uh these. basically you need to put together like. a permission slip and run it up the.

chain to say hey we have this thing we. want to go do in this town we want to do. this operation here's how we do it. here's why we do it here are the assets. we need and you send it up the chain and. if it gets approved you get to go and. our leadership was so good at writing. these little I think they're called op. boards um or whatever it is that we get. approved for like everything and to the. point where um like tier one guys would. come not a lot but would come to our. whide you know vanilla Seal Team to. augment with us just to go on operations.

no kidding yeah just because we were. able to get them approved we were not. some specialty unit it was just like. we're getting approved left and right so. you guys were getting it we were at. least going out a lot we were there you. know October and it was winter so like. the fighting season is lulling um but I. mean we we definitely got into some. stuff I mean I ultimately got hurt in a. gunfight that's how I left Afghanistan. so but yeah no it was uh well let's talk. about so you get what you wanted yep now. you're in Afghanistan at War what year.

2013 2013 so a lot has happened yep you. know in both. Wars you're. there let's talk about your first. mission oh man. yeah so I I went to Afghanistan as part. of the first group from our platoon so. the way they send you out on deployment. is you don't go all as a big group it's. too risky I think so you go out and.

waves so you know that it reduces the. chances of guys getting killed all at. once basically and so I went out with my. chief my OIC and maybe two other Junior. seals so it's like five of us and we. were under the impression that we would. get to Afghanistan and we would meet. SEAL Team 8 who was at the the site. where we. were and really not much was going to. happen we don't even have our platoon. here like we can't go out and do. operations there's five of us you know. and so we expected including my senior.

leadership to get to the site and just. basically wait for the rest of our. platoon to gradually come in over the. following you know week or two but we. get to our site and so to put in. perspective where we were we were in. logar province in. Afghanistan and we were in a place near. Kabul uh it was along Route Utah which. which is one of it might be the only. paved Road in Afghanistan or it's. certainly one of the few and so route. Utah gets IED constantly because it's. like the one road um and you got a.

picture Afghanistan where we were I mean. it's it's all mountains so if you've. been to like Nevada that's what. Afghanistan looks like just pure. mountains and snow everywhere and just. open space where you just see just these. Road this road that kind of goes forever. and these little jangly trucks and mud. Huts I mean it's it's a very different. world than the United States. but we when we got there we didn't. expect to do anything and we we arrive. at the the fobs the forward operating.

base where we just landed called fob. shank and we very quickly linked up with. a handful of the guys from team8 that. were going to be at our site so we. didn't stay at a main base we basically. stayed at this like weird outstation. that was pretty far up route Utah very. close to Kabul and my understanding cuz. I was not part of the team that actually. wrote the mission or anything I was just. kind of like a new guy that carried a. gun but the gist was we were there to. try to slow down or stop suicide bombers. making their way into cabul so find them.

before they get there and stop them and. team8 the platoon that was there they. had recently gotten into like all these. skirmishes these gunfights in this. neighboring Village called zargar which. is this very Urban Afghanistan Town. that's pretty big and it was we we could. see it from our site we have these we're. in a little Hesco barriered like madeup. site off the side of the road I mean. we're pretty exposed but we've been here. for the site had been there for a few. years it was pretty well you know. protected but it was kind of like the.

middle of nowhere and right across route. Utah on the other side is zargar and. that was a main place that suicide. bombers would be held before they were. sent up up to to Kabul and so we knew. that was a hot spot and Team 8 had been. going in there and getting in these like. really intense gunfights because the. fighters in. zargar were pretty open about being. Fighters they weren't really trying to. hide the fact that they are they're in. opposition to Nato and so you'd look.

into their town and you'd see dudes. carrying AK-47s in the middle of the. road I mean they're not even trying to. hide from you uh and also this town over. the course of several years had had been. the sight of like really intense battles. between soft elements and these Fighters. and so our team8 guys that were there. they had gotten into this horrible fight. like unintentionally they had driven. past zargar and they hit an IED their. their mrap was like disabled so they had. to stick with it for a while they're. getting shot at they didn't have their. nods so they're out there you know at.

night without nods which is stupid but. it's you know this that's happened and. frankly by the time we were seeing them. the next day they're they're like a week. away from getting to leave Afghanistan. they they want to get turnover. operations done immediately so they can. get the hell out of here and so when we. showed up they were like oh great. there's enough of you we can we can do a. mission tonight because we have to do a. set number of turnover operations before. we can leave and they wanted to get them. done immediately they were just over it. you they had had a rough deployment I I. think they might have lost somebody I'm.

not sure but they were just over it and. we we're looking at them and and we're. fresh you know fresh cammies clean. shaven and these dudes look so ragged. and one guy like he had this horrible. cut on his face same as the guy from. Seal Team 2 and so we're like all right. we'll we'll do turnover Ops with you. guys now and I didn't really know what. that would even entail you know I'm. thinking okay what is was it going to be. like a little patrol around the base no. we hop in one of their their mat TVs or. whatever the Mr wraps or RGS whatever.

they're called Big up armored vehicles. that are like. bombproof and I remember I had bought. all this special equipment for this. deployment like a brand new kid and I. had all this cool stuff and I thought. you I'm going to get there and we'll. have a couple of days I can kind of put. it together the way I want and then I'll. be all ready when my team gets here so. my kit wasn't built and I arrived at fob. shank so I'm in Afghanistan and team8. guys are like they don't want a small. talk they're like get the in the car. let's go to our site and do an OP. tonight and so everybody else I was with.

this is the same day same day and so. it's like midday and so I'm running in. this is a huge fob there's all these is. what are they called isus those big like. you know conx boxes they're everywhere I. don't know where my stuff is and so I. began running around looking for conx. boxes where maybe my stuff was and then. I finally and and teammate's waiting the. RGS are lined up engine's on everybody's. ready my my four guys or the four guys I. was with they're in their vehicles and. I'm running around just looking for my.

stuff and then I finally find it and I. open up my my Pelican case and it's just. random pouches no Molly's been done in. it like it's not ready there's no. there's nothing and so all I could do. was grab my my my plates and slide them. into my kit I have nothing it was a. slick kit and I just grabbed all my and. hopped in the RG putting my pouches on. as we're driving into like out into. Afghanistan out of the safety of this. base and the whole time I'm like dude if. we get hit right now I am completely. worthless I have nothing available to.

use I don't have a radio I don't have a. gun I have nothing on me and we're like. driving through these bizar these these. little like shopping centers that I mean. everyone's dressed head to toe and like. the women are in the burka like head to. toe and it's it looks like the Middle. East and it looks like it's not the. United States this is a foreign country. where you are and you are not welcome. here not welcome and there was a rule. that you couldn't slow down Beyond a. certain speed because of the risk of. IEDs and so you're you're cruising. through these Villages and there are. people that are standing like in.

defiance to you in the road like they're. ready to get hit by you not literally. but it's like no one's getting out of. your way oh here come the NATO forces. let them go through they don't like you. and so it's like everyone's looking at. this vehicle like you're the worst thing. that's happened to us and it was just. scary you're looking out the these. little like 7in thick glass windows and. you're seeing these people and you're. seeing up close and personal that you. are you are the enemy here that's what. it feels like and I I was like I feel so. sloppy I don't know what I'm doing here. and we finally get to the site the.

actual offsite we had to go through like. all these Hesco barriers to finally get. in and I'm looking around at where I'm. going to be staying for this deployment. and it's underwhelming to say the least. I mean I knew it would be Rag and Bone. but it's a couple of tents and like some. structure I mean it's like nothing it's. like this total ramshackle place with. like a couple of Huts around and I'm. like this is it like this is where we're. going to be staying and they're like. yeah this is pretty good you know like. all right and so the leader or the the. guy who was in charge of the team eight. element he's like all right so you know. put your [ __ ] in your rooms we had.

little like rooms we had that were. horrible but we went into our little. little rooms and he was like come into. the The Briefing room and we'll just put. together an opo and we'll go out tonight. and I'm like okay I don't know what this. is going to be like but I'm here so I. went in my room and I did put my kit. together so I was like ready and then. that night me and the rest of the guys I. was with just the other seals from Team. we went into this briefing room and you. know the only briefs I had sat in to. this point were in training you know. where it was like very very professional. you had the instructor brief you had you.

know the the elements that were going to. be in charge they'd brief you what they. were going to do you know no one's. around when you're doing the brief I. mean even in the jokestv vironments when. it comes time for safety and going over. the training Evolution we're going to do. seals are pretty good about like keeping. it very serious and I walk into this. briefing room and it's like dudes are. just off and that's not to say they were. unprofessional it's like they've been. here a while like to them this is. nothing they're like shirts off like. doing competitions with pull-ups and. stuff like they're just goofing around. and all all right let's just let's.

gather up let's let's go over this thing. and I'm like okay what's going on here. and we all come to the middle of the. room and there's this table in a map and. the guy who's got his shirt off who's. got long hair and a huge beard he's like. all right so let's let's just go like. these mountains over here um you know a. lot of times the fighters will sleep up. in the hills up here and so I think that. if we're careful we can maybe Park you. know pretty far off you know and and. walk our way up just carry a knife you. know to keep it quiet if you encounter. these guys and try not to you know. discharge your weapon if you don't have. to and we're just going to go clear the.

mountain and I'm like so we're going to. go to a mountain and we're going to. execute people who are sleeping on the. mountain that are Fighters here that's. what we're going to do and they're like. yeah I'm like okay so that's that's the. first mission I'm on it was like so. surreal it didn't feel like this could. be the thing we're going to do now. admittedly we go out in the soop and. like many Ops nothing happened there. were no Fighters there was no like. secret combat stuff we were doing but I. remember after that brief and it was. literally like that kind of short just.

bring a knife and be ready to act. quietly when you're out there and you. know just be careful you could step on. an IED you know it's like okay and I. went into my room and I remember praying. that the mission didn't happen that that. it wouldn't happen I'm not even. religious and I kneeled and prayed in my. room that we did not go on that. operation because I was completely. convinced I was going to die like even. though I had gone in saying I want to. die in combat by this point I'm. terrified and I don't want to go out the. door I want to stay in my little chew. that's the name of your stupid little. building you live in um and actually it.

did get rolled 24 hours so it was a. relief that night that I got to sleep. but then the next night we went out and. going out going out the door the first. time you know when you leave the safety. of the Hesco barriers and you're like. out in the wild. now it was uh it was like so. exhilarating but also equal parts. terrifying first and then and then it. quickly became over the course of the. deployment just so routine to be risking. your life every time you leave the the. safety of the hescos and it's weird how.

I'm sure you deployed many more times. than I did but I found that that. deployment so quickly I just adapted to. the lifestyle of being in a combat zone. like an unsafe place I slept better than. I ever had before cuz it's kind of like. what else is there to worry about other. than live and protect your teammates. there's nothing else to do eat sleep go. to the gym and live uh so it's like you. you kind of enter into this Zen mode but. it it it only comes when you break from. reality and that when you're there at.

first you're still in like civilian mode. you're in reality mode and it's really. hard to turn into the Savage you need to. be to like carry out a combat deployment. but once it happens and you flip the. switch and become the operator it's like. you just enter this weird piece and. you're just again this is my one. deployment to combat but I I was it was. great after like the first few weeks of. being there all the fear was gone and it. was like this is kind of an amazing. thing we're doing and it felt important. I mean it felt like the things we were. doing the people we were going after.

were genuinely bad people who had done. horrible things and we were doing stuff. about it it felt felt real you know. towards the end of the deployment I. would say that people began this might. be commonplace amongst combat tours it. probably is again I got the one but. towards the end people are now like okay. I don't want to be the guy that gets. killed on like the last day of. deployment like may maybe maybe cool our. Jets towards the end you know what I. mean and so there was definitely an. element of ironically at the end of our. deployment uh which is when I got hurt.

we were beginning to say hey we're going. out a lot and that's great but let's. make sure we're we're doing this for. good reason and not just looking for a. gunfight because I think a lot of times. we would go out really with the intent. of hopefully somebody bad sees us. engages with us and then we can. prosecute the target um you know it. wasn't written up that way but that was. the gist of a lot of the the times we. went out it's like kind of see what. happens and I think that we all reached. a point where or a lot of us did where.

we were just like I don't know if I want. to keep doing that at least as much as. we're doing it it just feels like we're. we're really risking it for little to no. gain that's how we. felt um and then we went out and of. course you know nearly get killed along. with a bunch of other people and that uh. so I mean I don't know if you wanted to. get into that I can yeah let's before. that yeah before we get into that let's. I mean what was so you guys were going. after IED manufacturers suicide bombers.

Fighters up in the hills if they're up. there yeah let's talk about the first. operation where you and your team had an. engagement it was so far away but I. heard a gun sh like I heard gunfire we. were like up on this Ridge. miles away from the target me and the. unit the element that I was the the. element that I was with was up on a. mountain overlooking this Village that. other guys were going in and clearing.

and so we just were at a distance I had. you know a rocket launcher if we needed. it but really we weren't doing anything. but you know gunfire started in the in. the village and we had to take cover. behind our our RG up on the mountain and. it was like wow we're taking cover this. is crazy like it's really happening and. like it's so funny like the first time. it it happens and and again like I know. that your audience includes grizzled. combat veterans that have done a lot. more than I have but again my my frame. of reference is this one deployment and.

at first it was like exhilarating to be. shot at and then it just became like. what's the word for. it you feel like you're just rolling the. dice a little bit and it by by the the. end of the deployment it it was a lot of. resentment that you hear that gunfire. and really it's the first couple rounds. the that are going to be the ones that. are going to kill people because we are. not going to be on the offensive due to. the Rules of Engagement we're basically. like we're here and if you attack us we. can do something about it but only if.

you attack us and so there were these. operations we go on where all you're. doing is like man I hope they miss that. first couple that first volley because. that's the most accurate shot they got. the they got the drop on you and they. can shoot. you um and then it's like a couple times. when the shooting would start I would. immediately be out of breath I had moved. or done anything I'm just I'm in place I. have not moved and I'd have this like. sudden I can't even breathe because the. shooting has started and I like I need. to like almost reset almost in a way. maybe I'm just not cut out for it but it.

was like so intense you know so I I uh. did that ever fade away no it got worse. uh I'd say by the end of the deployment. I was definitely able to you know. quickly get into the zone and and do the. things I was trained to do but the. anxiety when the shooting started that. first few seconds of like oh my God I. hope no one got shot and I'm completely. out of breath and it's like I have to. like get back in the moment cuz someone. could come around the corner and kill me. I got to like get in my game um I. remember at the end of that deployment I.

just was like I don't know if I'm cut. out to do this like are there people. that get better at this cuz I feel like. I'm getting worse I'm I'm I'm accustomed. to this now and I'm able to do my job. but I feel like with every you know time. we got in contact with the Enemy I'm I'm. getting worse at embracing what's. happening it's terrifying you know I'm. able to function and do the things I'm. supposed to do but the idea of like. doing multiple deployments that are like. this or way worse that that takes a. special breed of person you know and I I. candidly I don't know if that's me you.

know what are the how often was this. happening how many guy how many times. are you guys going out so we we had uh. on our platoon there was I think like 25. seals and we went out with a partner. force all the time so there was always. like 30 or 10 to 30 Afghans that were. with us and I actually I was in charge. of the partner fo you know hurting the. cats. really. um and we would go out maybe every third. day over 6 months sometimes every other. day and a lot of times we go out at like.

super early in the morning that. technically was not night time and it. got it approved but it was still night. time you'd have nods but it's the. morning and it wasn't like every time we. went out we got shot at far from it I I. think that we probably went on you know. maybe 90 or so operations you know that. you would call an operation of which. I don't know 10 15 20 times and I could. be wrong cuz a lot of it Blended. together but it was a relatively small. number that were like we got into a. gunfight and some of them were from.

miles and miles away and it didn't. matter but technically we got shot at. and that's why we ended up doing this. thing over here but the ones that were. or I should say there was really only. one gunfight that in my mind because of. how extreme this one was it makes every. other experience I had in combat on this. deployment feel like actually nothing. and it was the night that I got hurt in. Afghanistan it's my last night in. country might as well get into it let's. go into that so but let's let's start. from the beginning what was the.

operation about what was the brief what. were you guys doing so it was in that. town zargar the one that's right across. the street from us which kind of became. the main place we would go um when you. say right across the street are we. talking 100 MERS are we talking a th000. meters are we talking couple clicks uh. you know what it's probably like here's. the here the road and it's maybe like a. click off the road that direction is so. like you know a kilometer off the road. is sarar but you can see it from the. road there's no obstruction from the. road and it's basically a walled I I.

remember it being walled almost like it. was a security around the city but I. don't think it was but it looks like. this big walled in city if that makes. sense and you can see it from the road. and we were much closer to Route Utah on. the other side so we're you know 100. meters off the road on our side and. zargar starts like a you know thousand. you know a click away from from the road. so it's it's not right in front of us. but it's close I mean if there were. engagement because the Army would go in. there sometimes and we'd see you know. Jets coming in and dropping cast outside.

of zargar and it's a front row seat it's. right there um but a lot of times we. would go into zargar mostly because. there was constant reporting that. Fighters were in zargar because they. really were not shy about being out in. public and um we would just kind of go. in and and if there was somebody that. was a known bad actor that had done. these horrible things like we're going. to go find them and a lot of times in an. effort to find this person you know we'. get an engagements with other people or. or you know we didn't find anything and.

nothing happened at all but um it got to. the point where towards the end of the. deployment it was starting to be. fighting season again because it was the. springtime and there was just way more. activity in zargar than anywhere else. and I think that we kind of got sucked. into this idea of just just going there. because that's a place where stuff. happen we're going to get into gunfights. we're going to find bad guys we're going. to find you know suicide bombers we're. going to find all the things that we're. here to find and. do and this ironically on the day before.

the operation that I actually got HT on. you know we had a big platoon wide talk. where we basically were split where half. the platoon me included felt like we. were doing too many let's just go get. into a gunfight routines which again it. wasn't buil that way but anybody who was. doing these operations understood that's. what we're doing and the other half felt. like dude that's why we're here that's. the job we're here to do the job and so. we were kind of not fighting but. definitely not on the same page with. what we were going to do and so word.

came out that we're going to do a stomp. in D argonar and see what happens and. there was lots of reporting that there. actually would be pretty significant. numbers of people in the city um. fighters in the city and frankly I was. pretty annoyed about it uh not that I. wouldn't do it it isn't like I didn't. want to do the job it just was like are. we just going in to get in gunfights for. the sake of gunfights are we going in. because there's a bigger Mission here. and I'm not saying that I wouldn't do. one or the other it's just it's the end. of the deployment like let's be smart. about it and maybe that's just me not.

being a fit for the teams which frankly. I probably was not you know like I'm. sure there's a mentality where it's like. I don't give a [ __ ] what that is we're. going out the door and I'm sure that. that works too but we have this tension. in the platoon about what we're doing. and the next day it's like we're going. to go out and do it and there was a lot. of bitterness I mean from half the. platoon we're kind of like what the are. we doing you know I feel like someone's. going to get killed so far no one has. but someone's going to get killed if we. keep doing this and it's just it just. didn't feel worth it you. know and so we go into zargar midday and.

the whole day is a pretty big blur but. the gist of the story is we end up uh. and by the way I think effectively we. were told to just go in there and do a. presence Patrol there really wasn't any. you're going to find this person and. we're going to bring him in it was do a. presence Patrol in zargar follow this. route see what happens so very very. low-level. unnecessary operation I would that got. pushed through I I would say I would say. that at the time given how kinetic it. was in zargar it made sense for somebody.

maybe to go in there and stem the tide a. little bit but it did feel like we're. like well we know there's going to be. gunfights in there so let's go do it. that's what it felt like to me and I was. not part of the leadership that made the. decision for all I know there could have. been a great reason to go in but I. frankly have never debriefed it with. those people since this deployment. so um we go into zargar and again you. know Afghanistan is full of these towns. that are very spaced out with the. buildings are kind of far apart from. each other they're all mud huts and very. small you it's a farming Community.

mostly it is a farming Community for. sure but zargar is just different it's. it still looks like Afghanistan we're. not talking about a real you know. Western City here but four mud hut. buildings and four the environment we. were in this was very Urban you had. buildings right on top of each other. there was lots of alley ways and places. that you did not want to be if you're. worried about IEDs and getting ambushed. that kind of thing and we we ended up. foot patrolling into zargar this is.

broad daylight we're not getting. contacted we just walk right up to the. outside of the Town actually has a wall. around it at least parts of it does and. so we walked right up to this wall so. we're basically just outside this wall. that's maybe you know 6 feet high it's. not super tall and just over this wall. is the whole city building second floor. second buildings everything when we. walked in we expected to be shot at as. we walked in we're walking through an. open field and our RGS are parked on the. road right there they know we're coming. in and they did but they were very smart.

the fighters were they didn't shoot us. because they knew we couldn't engage. them we were not allowed to do the first. volley so they let us walk into the City. and we stopped behind this wall and then. we were listening to the radio of. combatants radios I don't know how we do. that but we're listening to the radio. and we clearly heard oh the fighters are. they're here and they're they're saying. basically they're saying their final. words to each other like we're going to. fight to the death now because the. Americans are here like they're all. saying their final words and prayers to.

each other we're about to do a suicide. mission and they were in the second a. lot of them were in the second floor of. the buildings right overlooking where we. were they knew where we were we were. basically pinned down without any. gunfire we can't go anywhere and if we. tried to R to retreat over the field. back to our our vehicles like they can. just then they can open up on us and our. backs are turned to you. and so it dawned on us as we're behind. this wall that we've kind of put. ourselves in a tough position about we. didn't know they were in the Second. Story we didn't know they were there and. so we went in expecting to be able to. maneuver between buildings and just kind.

of figure it out but now it's like we. know there are dudes that know where we. are they they know that we have to go. forward at some point and in a sense we. kind of had to walk into a known Ambush. that wasn't the way it was built and it. was not intentional but we sat behind. the wall and our leaders sh is like. walking up and down the line keeping. their heads behind the wall like telling. us just stay here don't move like if you. got to take a piss take a piss like we. don't know what we're going to do yet. just stay here and our leadership were. they were amazing tacticians like when.

it came time for like the shooting. started you wanted those guys around you. but it was clear that we had reached. this impass where there's not really a. good solution here we're going to. probably get shot at if we go this way. and we just have to accept that and so a. decision was made like it's time to go. forward pass the wall into zargar and. see what happens and I definitely. remember thinking like holy like this is. how people die we're walking into un. known choke point like there and also.

that's the the thing the way into the. City from where we were positioned was. an absolute choke point where the. buildings kind of converged into a. series of Alleyways like there wasn't a. there wasn't a good way to walk into the. City and so we at some point just kind. of there wasn't it wasn't like a big. to-do it was just kind of like all right. let's go and we start moving it wasn't. like crazy we didn't like run with our. guns you know it was just like we're. going to patrol we're going to be. checking all our angles and be ready to. to react as soon as we can and we walked. I I remember it being a pretty short.

walk from the wall into the city we kind. of got into this Courtyard and they. opened up on us I don't really know. where they were there was definitely a. machine gunner Straight Ahead behind a. behind a corner there was definitely. people on the second floor and in the. initial volley um I say this with. absolute respect for our counterparts. but thank God the partner Force. unfortunately did get shot not fatally. but it was the partner Force who were. incapacitated a few of them plus our dog. got shot but no seals were shot and we. only brought like half our platoon and.

as you know like the partner for the. partner Force cannot really be relied on. to to to take care of something like. this you need seals to do it you need. guys that are really trained and so. because we had our fighting force that. were well trained all healthy we. immediately took up positions and were. able to kind of stand our ground ground. and fight back this initial volley and. our medic got to work on our dog and the. the Afghan partner Force they again they. all lived but they all got there was I. think two guys who got shot maybe three.

and then a dog got shot as well dog. survived but this kicked off a you know. 6-hour. long sporadic firefight throughout the. city all all day and in a way we kind of. just got our kicked the whole day. because it's like they had these tunnels. under we believed they had these tunnels. that ran out and from under the city. that they could Escape very easily. in some odas had told us that they they. were running into that quite a bit and. so we we'd get into these sudden like uh.

exchanges With the Enemy that you. couldn't even really see where they were. and then they just be gone like over and. over again and we we began our platoon. and our partner for us we broke into. these different elements and just kind. of began I guess you could say clearing. the city but it's way too big to. actually clear it we were just kind of. looking for these people at this point. like you've been shooting at us all day. and we don't know where you are we. haven't seen anybody they just keep. shooting and disappearing and so we were. are you guys engaging at all we're.

trying to but we don't even know to. shoot nobody don't okay there were there. were times where we would see somebody. who literally was like shooting and then. ducking behind a wall and we would. obviously engage that person but a lot. of time it was just you suddenly hear. gunfire and you don't know where it's. coming from and it's so Urban and we're. all so spaced out it was a lot of times. just take cover and wait it was Terri. terrifying to be honest it's the whole. time you're like dude there are Fighters. all over the city it's nighttime and. every time I mean we were going into. buildings like with only one other guy I. went into a I went into a huge Compound.

on my own like because there was nowhere. else to go I'm getting shot off the. street and I'm walking in thinking I. have no idea who's in here but I'm I got. to go I'm doing a oneman entry into this. room and so was everybody else but over. the course of like 6 hours there was I. wouldn't say it was a constant gunfight. cuz it wasn't but it was a constant Pres. the enemy and we knew they were there. but we could not them and finally it's. late as hell it's you know 10 o'clock at. night or whatever. midnight this part I I remember it.

fairly well but you have to keep in mind. I was not on comms with the person who. was talking to us I don't really know. what happened but I know the result of. what happened our fire team so our fire. team was you know a handful of seals uh. there's some partner Force as well we. happened to be physically closest to the. front of zargar where like the entrance. to zargar was and there was a drone or. there was some unmanned aerial vehicle. in the sky that was flying overhead and.

it picked up on what looked like. military military-aged men so Ms Hudd. huddling behind a wall near the front of. zargar and they have you know the person. who's controlling it I think they were. in Las Vegas they had no way of knowing. if they were carrying a weapon and I I. don't think at the time we were able to. use that as positive ID for weapons you. just you could assume they did but you. know you don't know and so it was like. you have these suspicious menlook people. huddling behind the wall on the way that. you would be going to leave so perhaps.

they're waiting to Ambush you or they're. setting up an IED who knows so we happen. to be the closest to these these guys. and so our fire team leader who is he's. he's on dev GRE now he's a legend I'm. not gonna say his name but he's he knows. who he is and if he's listening to this. you're the man um he's like let's just. go over and see what these guys are. doing and so we looked at our little grg. map and we figured out where we're going. to go and based on where we believe. these guys were huddling we thought we.

could come down this Alleyway and arrive. at this other wall the short wall you. know it's like a T intersection you'll. you'll arrive at the short wall right in. front of you and in theory you could. poke your head over this wall and look. out across this this field if if you. will and on the other side at the other. wall that's like you know hundreds of. meters away would be these these guys. that have been spotted by the. camera however somehow or another it did. not get relayed to us that these guys. were not on that wall they were huddling. behind the wall we were walking up to.

like a foot away from us and so we. didn't know that and we were very sneaky. we we made our way you know down this. Alleyway and it's like totally silent. it's dark we're on nods it's a lull in. in all the gunfighting it's like silent. it's eerie and we walk down this. Alleyway and we get to this T. intersection where again all we're going. to do is poke our heads over the wall. and just give it like a sitre on like. who these people are what are they doing. they do they look like a threat what. should we do but instead I didn't see. them because I did not I wasn't the guy. looked over the wall we get to this wall.

and we've been so quiet that no one's. heard us and our team lead and one of. the other new guys they poke their head. over the wall and they just come back. down and they're like they're right. there and they haven't hurt us by this. point so no one's making a word no one's. saying anything and we all just look at. each other and my team lead he just gets. down on one KNE and he looks at the. other new guy not me the other new guy. and he just lightly Taps his leg like. stand on my leg and start engaging the. enemy and so like in in the space of. like two seconds it's like suddenly.

there's gunfire going this way and these. guys on the other side of the wall who. were absolutely Fighters that's the. other thing how many of them were there. I think well when we were there we. thought there were two so so two people. was our assessment when we literally got. there but after the fact I've heard. conflicting reports about they being up. to seven people on the other side of the. wall there is a video of it and it's. grainy enough that there's no way that. you could actually tell but there was at. least two there could have been seven I. honestly don't know because what happens. next is such a blur.

I when they peaked over the wall they. became our our guys immediately knew. like these are they have guns they're. these are combatants and so he signals. him like we we have to engage they're. going to engage us because they haven't. heard us yet and when we began engaging. them they were holding grenades at least. we believe with the pins already pulled. like waiting for this moment if you find. us and you take us out we're going to. let go of these grenades and take you. with us and in the middle of this. initial volley from our end going over. the wall these grenades two grenades at.

least I think it was two came over the. wall and one of them actually hit my. shoulder and then bounced to the ground. next to me and you got to understand. that it's nighttime I'm on night vision. and so for people who have not been on. night vision you know it's like we we. had these they're called ANS pv1 15s or. something where it's like it's actually. grayscale so it's not green and and. yellow or whatever it's it's like gray. and blue it it almost looks HD but uh. with night vision you can pick up. infrared light that you can't with the. naked eye and the Drone overhead that.

was basically providing support for us. had a a a spotlight an IR Spotlight on. the place where we were so we're in a. spotlight but it's a spotlight you can. only see on night vision and they were. flashing the spotlight because we're in. the middle of a of a contact at this. point and they needed to signal to the. other aircraft what was going on and so. they're like flashing the strobe and so. as soon as this gunfire started I'm. standing in this relatively small you. know Spotlight that looks like a. flashlight from God is shining down but. I can only see it on my nods and it's.

flashing and so as the light is flashing. around me I'm standing there I'm not. shooting doing anything I'm behind the. guys that are engaging and I watched. this grenade come over the wall and it. was like in slow motion and every time. the light flashed on my nods I would see. the grenade and then it would flash. again it would disappear and I'd see it. again and it would disappear and I would. see see it again when it hit my shoulder. like it was the slowest thing even. though it happened in like a fraction of. a second because I'm like that's a. grenade and I'm going to die now you. knew it was a grenade 100% could not. have been more clear it was a grenade. this is It's I tell people that in this.

moment which went so badly my brain was. able to function at a level that is it. never has before and I really believe it. was like it was operating out of you're. actually on the brink of dying and so. your brain is doing everything it can to. save you and so it's like hyper. processing what's going on around you. and it makes time slow down it makes. every millisecond feel like 10 minutes. and so I really did have this weird. moment of knowing this grenade was about. to detonate and I didn't know if it.

would detonate here here here here here. who knows but if it detonates here it's. blowing my head off I'm I'm dead and so. I remember as it came over my first. thought was oh my God please detonate. below my head so at least I can have an. open casket funeral and my family can. identify me and so when it hit my. shoulder and it began Falling Towards. the ground I was actually relieved I was. like phew it's going to blow up here and. still totally kill me but my head will. be intact my family can see me and then. it hits the ground and I'm like oh [ __ ]. I might survive this and then all of us.

just kind of like turned and like did. our because it's totally chaotic no one. even knew where the grenade went and. it's like we all kind of like turned and. then it detonates and it just felt like. someone had taken a handful of rocks and. just kind of chucked them at me it. didn't hurt at all but my recollection. of what happens from this point until. medac is not the way that it actually. happened my memory is I fell to the. ground and I couldn't stand up again I'm. in this we were in a uh the alley we. were in is actually where the sewage ran. it was like you know all the sh and piss.

going through the the and so I fell into. a puddle of like sh and I'm unable to. move I'm trying to pull myself forward. and the whole time there was an active. extremely close quarters gunfight. happening because now those dudes are. engaging back even though that's the. thing people don't know is even if. someone's been mortally wounded like. immediately they'll keep fighting. because that's just what happens and so. it we didn't even know how if we even. hit them they were acting like they were. totally fine yeah I mean a lot of times. especially if we're using green tip guys.

wouldn't even realize they were being. shot exactly take 10 15 maybe 20 rounds. before it's over and so I my memory. again is like I know this gun thing is. this fighting is happening like a foot. away from me and I'm also aware of the. fact that from my perspective there was. an opening at the end of this so it's a. te intersection right so we were looking. across the head of the tea thinking. that's who they're going to be and. they're on the other side of the wall I. fall and now I'm looking towards like. the the one side of the te if that makes.

sense I'm looking in that direction and. there was an opening in the wall where. in theory the people that were engaging. on this side of the wall the bad guys. they could come around and come into the. area where we are and so I was I was I. was thinking to myself I'm probably. bleeding to death I can't move and I I. was up like this looking straight ahead. and I'm looking at this opening in the. in the fence in the wall waiting for a. fighter to come around and shoot me like. 100% that's what I'm either going to. bleed to death right now or another. grenade is going to come over the wall.

or someone's going to come in here and. finish me off and I just I accepted that. that was going to happen and when I. really couldn't move myself what began. running through my mind before I thought. I was going to die was like what will my. obituary say and not from a oh oh boy I. wish it was more full it was more just. like factual like I wonder what it'll. say will it say John Allen or Jonathan. Allen will it be in my local paper or. will it be in like a bigger newspaper. will this be a news story or will it be. kind of forgotten about like I was just. thinking about it practically like hm I.

wonder what my funeral will be like and. so it's just like very matter of fact I. just knew for a fact I was going to die. uh but then the our medic uh whose name. is who is a hero like in the truest. sense of the. word there's six guys that have been. affected by these grenades like. concussed I mean I had shrapnel enter my. leg and the backs of my legs and my hip. and I'm bleeding to death and another. guy he had shrapnel enter his lungs and. collapsed his lung and so he can't.

breathe we had a guy who was so concy. like couldn't speak you know he's like. totally out of it I think there was a. couple other shrapnel injuries I mean. everybody's hurt but the one guy who. wasn't badly hurt was our medic and so. instead of engaging the enemy he. basically went into practically a. suicidal mission of just trying to. protect the people that were hurt like. he was just grabbing guys didn't wasn't. even trying to pay attention to what was. going on and dragging them to safety and. he dragged me to safety and he laid over. the top of me as like bullets are coming.

in and it's like also once the gunfire. started the other fighters in the city. they just began arbitrarily shooting. generally in the direction of the. gunfighting it's like you could easily. hit your own dude but they don't care so. it's like RPGs and and it's night time. and no one even knows where the. shooting's coming from and my medic is. just calm as can be he's a seal to he's. laying over me he's like hey it's going. to be fine dude all good he's he's. feeling my legs he put tourniquets on my. legs he's like I think I got you stable. and then afterwards my interpreter who I. was very close with his name.

is um he was like crying CU he thought I. was going to die and he literally laid. on top of me he had no weapon nothing. and laid on top of me until it was time. to move just to protect me even further. um but he kept going back down to to. pull guys out of The Fray and it would. turn out the our J who was also with us. he ended up calling in an air strike and. it basically hit the dudes on the other. side of the walls the threat was more or. less neutralized but there was still. gunfire kind of coming in. sporadically but yeah he just went in.

and pulled everybody out along with. another guy uh who was not a medic but. he was the really badly concuss guy he. wound up going back in and pulled a. bunch of guys out um and then the. helicopter couldn't get in it was such. an urban environment it was too risky. with the gunfighting that even you know. the the PJs the the best you know par. rescu jumpers who could come in and do. these types of extracts they just like. couldn't do it and so we had to run. about a mile through the city to the. only place where they could extract us. and as we did I'm tourniquet and barely.

can walk I'm kind of hanging on to other. guys and just people are shooting at us. arbitrarily like as we're running almost. like a movie like running down the road. not even trying to like take cover just. get the out of here and then we get in. the the helicopter me and the other. really badly hurt guy we hopped in the. helicopter and was like hot extract it. was pretty gnarly and I remember the one. of the guys on the the Hilo he said do. you want morphine cuz I was talking and. Lucid but definitely was in and out a. little bit but I was I was aware of. things and I remember I said no because.

I I actually still believe there was a. pretty good chance that I could still. die from my injuries and I wanted to be. aware of what was happening and I. remember making that choice because I. thought I was still going to die and. that's like so profound to think I did. that but then we get to the to fob shank. the place that I arrived when I first. got to Afghanistan and we went to their. field Hospital which it's like this big. canvas tent and we got wheeled in off. the helicopter and there's all these. doctors and stuff and and literally. white you know scrubs where they're.

ready to do surgery on us and I remember. um when I got there word had been passed. to the other seals that were in country. that two seals have been hurt fairly bad. uh and they're being brought to fob. shank for treatment and it just wasn't. really clear based on this exchange of. information how serious the injuries. were however most of the country at the. time had not been going on operations we. were one of the few that were out and. the live feed of that drone shot of this. whole encounter was basically broadcast.

to numerous you know units across the. country including some that were in fob. shank other seals and so they're like oh. like one of our a couple of our guys are. probably going to die like we're going. to witness someone arrive who's either. dead or about to die and so when we got. wheeled into that tent our teammates. from the other SEAL Teams had put on. their best uniforms which they're still. field cammies but it was like an attempt. to be respectful and they were standing. in the back of the tent like away from. all the doctors just standing there to. receive us to like be there in support.

of us and it dawned on me as I was. wheeled in and I'm again I'm talking I'm. like aware of myself I know I've been. badly hurt but I'm I feel like maybe I. can survive this and I looked over at. those guys and it immediately became. clear to me why they were there they. didn't tell me why but it was like oh. they're here in case we die. like this is actually happening this is. probably the end of my life and so I. laid down on one of their stretchers and. a guy came over to me and he's like okay. I'm going to give you ketamine and then. you know we're going to we're going to. get to work on you uh and so he gave me.

ketamine and I suddenly began screaming. I think I'm in San Diego uh and then I. don't remember and I woke up in Germany. I had been transported to. Germany and I was there for a week uh. and luckily for me you know once the. bleeding had stopped there really was. nothing beyond that I I mean I still. have shrapnel on my legs but it's it's. not not a big deal and I was like home. like a week later I'm pushing a shopping. cart H hobbling with a bleeding wound on. my leg through Home Depot with my wife. like a week after that happened holy. [ __ ] no decompression stop nothing yeah.

you're fine get out of here buddy so you. had said that this is not what actually. happened true sorry that's my. recollection what was missed is four. years it might even more than that I. think it was four years after this this. whole thing happened actually me back up. after I came back I I got home from this. injury about five weeks I think before. my platoon was scheduled to come back. home so I missed the tail end of their. deployment and they got into a whole. bunch of and a bunch of guys did get. hurt we.

had uh I think eight purple hearts out. of 25 guys you know one of which a guy. got two so that kind of reduces it a. little bit but it was a lot of close. calls um and uh actually there's another. story I'll tell you too that's a very. close call uh but um I didn't really see. my platoon for you five weeks I would. FaceTime them in Afghanistan and it was. like I I wanted to be with them so so. badly you know it's like you feel like. oh my God I missed the end of my. deployment but no one really ever talked. about what happened it was almost like.

that night went so sideways and could. have ended with frankly all of us being. killed that we just couldn't even. debrief it it just and it was like. sensitive you know and so we never. talked about it I I didn't talk to the. medic who was one of my very close. friends I I did not talk to him for. years after this we went to the same. team and I didn't talk to him and it. would turn out he also was avoiding me. because he had an enormous amount of. guilt around the fact that on that. deployment and the one before he was the.

medic who worked on people who got hurt. or got killed but he didn't get hurt and. he always felt like you know it's. Survivor guilt if you will but we. finally had this long awaited meeting. that we both knew we needed to have we. went to this like burger joint in. Virginia Beach and this is like four or. five years after the fact and we finally. talked about what happened and it was. very cathartic to talk it through with. him because clearly we both had some. demons from what. happened but the thing that me up um. that now even me up is he remembers.

exactly what happened he he was he was. there he was there for the for the whole. thing and and was not so badly concussed. that he doesn't have like his memory is. clear and he said he's like you know. when the grenade came over with the. grenade or grenades I think there might. have been two when it came over the wall. you know after this speaking he's like. after I realized I was okay I looked. around and it was like everybody was. down everybody like no one's engaging. it's like there's random gunfire and. everybody's down except for me and. you're in this little tight Alleyway.

it's chaos there's like a you know a. foot of sewage that we're standing in. and uh he said I just immediately looked. around and tried to figure out who I. could actually save and he was like I. looked at you and I thought you were. dead I thought you were dead and I. looked at how much you were bleeding you. were face down and I I rolled you you so. that your face was out of the water but. he's like I thought you were dead and I. actually triaged you I basically said I. can't save him I'm going to leave him. where he is and he's like I worked on. the other people uh and it wasn't until. actually I think it was who physically.

came back down he's the guy who was. super concussed he carried me out and I. was unconscious and placed me down not. even really far away from where all this. fighting was happening he just kind of. put me up against a wall and he went. down into the to The Fray to get more. people and that's when saw that I had my. eyes open and I was alive and he was. like oh my God I I I it shocked me that. you were alive just like the pool of. blood you were under was so so. significant I thought you were on a. sheet of ice but then I realized nothing. was. Frozen and uh that's when he went over.

and he felt for the bleed and I had this. a huge chunk out of my basically blown. out and I had a pretty big hole on the. back of my thigh and he was obviously. worried about an arterial bleed uh but. he was able to get in there pni on and. and I I don't even know how I got to the. helicopter holy sh so you had a. near-death experience my so when I was. laying there when was laying on top of. me doing the the check for me I'm sorry. when plac me there and I didn't remember.

I don't remember this happening I just. remember I told you I had that moment of. thinking about my obituary that actually. was probably taking place after had. moved me to this point of safety and it. was right before came over and put. tourniquet on me so when I was having. that moment of oh I'm dying I think I. literally was not being helped I was. actively bleeding no tourniquets on and. I'm not doing anything to save myself. and I'm just like sitting there and so. I'm actively dying and what happened is. first my vision went I couldn't see. anything like utter complete blindness.

and it's weird cuz my eyes are fully. open and it's blind and then my hearing. went from like a helicopter sound like. to silence and I'm left in like a void. it was Blackness and silence and all I. was left with was this very acute. realization that you are probably. seconds away from from dying and I. thought about what will my obituary say. I also I thought about my wife and I. thought about where she physically would. be when invariably that night someone's. going to come to her door and tell her.

that her husband's dead um and I. remember just being kind of sad about. the fact that I didn't have kids yet you. know it felt like my my lineage ends. with me and um it was it was horrible it. was it was it was horrible because it. was kind of like matter of fact I guess. you know I I we all have thought about. our deaths I'm sure um the the thing. that struck me was how easy it was to. die in the sense not not like the. mechanism by which I'm dying but rather. once you've been mortally wounded or you.

have some I don't know if this has. happened to other people but I I had. like this Mortal wound and my my brain. was aware that you're going to die from. this like you're going to die and it. reminded me of when I was I was seven at. in Martha's Vineyard on vacation and I. fell and I broke my collar bone I was. roll roller blading and I fell and I'm a. seven-year-old I don't even think I. recall knowing what a collar bone was. but the first thing I said after I fell. was not I didn't cry I didn't throw fit. I just stood up and I said I broke my. collar bone for sure and that's what. happened I'm a seven-year-old and I knew.

it immediately when I was having those. thoughts about what will my obituary say. and thinking about my wife it was like. not a question of are you dying it's. you're dying and in a weird way it's. like it was very natural the same way. it's natural to be alive and to talk and. to breathe and to do all the things we. do death is just as natural and it was. terrifying like dude your body is ready. to shut down it knows how to do it you. just haven't done it yet and it it put. in me when I came out of that and. survived a sense of urgency that I never.

had. before I felt like death was highly. unceremonious and abrupt and it's going. to happen probably like that down the. road and so you got now and that's all. you got and it's cliche but holy did. that change my life cuz when I came out. of that it really was like I'm not going. to wait to do the things I that I want. to try and if I it up along the way I. really don't care because everybody is. going to have that moment where where. the lights are going out and the. hearing's going and you're going and. that's it and it could happen any minute. and then like for me like d I'm 24 years.

old I'm 24 at the height of my life I'm. in the prime of my life and I'm going to. die and it was just like there it is see. you it was it was it was weird it was. like so matter of fact it became. unbelievably profound to me that like. that's actually how death works it's. very simple your body knows how to do it. you just haven't done it yet so [ __ ]. go do some while you're still alive. great advice do you think there's a. possibility you did die and your. Consciousness was just continuing on I.

don't know I I have thought about it a. lot and I think that because my sense of. time in that moment is so screwed up. because I was laying on the ground. unconscious for some amount of time. after the explosion or after the grenade. detonated and then at some point I'm. like dragged over to this area where I'm. like being held. it's like there was enough time that. passed that I have no memory of. that yes I think that I probably was at. least very very close to death and in. fact the the doctors after the fact the. surgeons in Germany told me that their.

best estimate what was had I not had a. tourniquet put on I probably would have. died in about 30 seconds that's how. close I was to. dying and so that was actually my second. near-death experience but the first one. doesn't really count and I say it's near. death only because I personally was. there and I saw it the first one was. earlier in the deployment uh me and. actually ironically the same guy who had. his lung collapsed who he and I rode the. helicopter together on this on that. second injury he he and I were he was. ahead of me and I was behind him I'm. sorry reversed I was ahead of him he was.

behind me clearing a house in. Afghanistan so like we' made all this. noise because there was like a tin door. that we couldn't open and we're you know. jostling it it's making all this noise. dogs are barking we finally get it open. and we threw some crash bangs into the. into the stru we knew there's a there's. a there's somebody in there for sure we. knew he was in there and finally we made. entry and I I might have been the one. guy or the two guy but I was one of the. first few guys into this dark structure. it's you know it's early morning so it's. still dark out and there's a thing.

called well Parallax which I think I. think is the term for it for where. basically your your eyes see this way. but like your gun sight for example is. actually like an inch lower than your. eyesight and you actually have to. account for the fact I think anyways I'm. making this complicated my nods actually. are not in sync with where I actually am. looking from my eyes they're I think. they're either lower or higher I forget. what it is but it's a little bit. different your actual sight line is here. but your nods which look like you're. looking here are either here or here and. I forget which one it is but the point. is if you're in a low seiling.

environment the opportunity to hit your. head on the ceiling is quite high with. nods on because you can't quite tell how. close you are to the ceiling and when. you first walked into this house it's. like this tall entryway but then stairs. went down to this like low ceiling. hallway if you will and I went in and I. just saw that was the direction to go. there's no lights in the house on one. nods and as I began going down these. like two steps to this narrow hallway. that's all pitch black my nods hit the. the overhang and I didn't know what I. like I hit it and it confused me but.

this is a like real times we're we're. really clearing this house I can't just. hey hold on guys let me fix my nods and. so I just turned and did what you're. trained to do I turned and I went to a. stairwell which was right next to me and. the guy behind me he picked up the spot. right behind me I'm 5'10. uh is at least 6'3 he's he's a really. tall he might even be 6'4 really tall. guy okay he walks down this hallway and. immediately it's like there was a. barricaded shooter with a with a shotgun.

aimed just up the hallway and he was. aiming roughly at where he thought. someone's head would be but so tall it. hit him here it hit his plates and it. was a slug too destroyed his plates he. was able to you know engage and so that. guy was disposed of but like is 6' three. and this was a black hallway you can't. see anything the guy who shot was. shooting blind he did not know what he. was shooting at but he roughly aimed at. where he thought someone's head was. likely going to be if I hadn't hit that. overhang I'm dead slug to the head but.

it's like I can't tell that story really. because ultimately did get shot and and. the dude got hit here for him it was. about an inch away from his throat it. was this horrible bruise he had but he. was like super super cool about it but. he ended up living through that and he. lived through the the second one but. that one actually haunts me in some ways. more than the other because it's like. such an unknown what would have happened. if I had not clipped my knots I would. have gone down that hallway maybe he. would have missed maybe he wouldn't have. shot I don't know but all I know is got. shot here and when I stand next to here.

for is here for me so Prett gnarly. wow and I and I think about dudes who've. done this repeatedly I mean I went to. Afghanistan on the tail end of. Afghanistan the dudes like including you. in your generation I mean you guys were. in the Middle East when it was like in. really intense when the Rules of. Engagement were way wild you know I I. felt like if this is what a relatively. lowkey deployment looks like I can't. imagine doing 20 years of back-to-back. deployments in the thick of fighting in.

the Middle East like I don't know how. those dudes function now because one. deployment with my experiences felt like. a lifetime and that was one deployment. well a lot of them don't function I know. but. um let's move in so you get home. how' your wife receive you so I it's. funny the the process for getting me. home it was like so quick I mean I I'm. literally in a gunfight in. Afghanistan and then I think it was.

actually eight days later I am home with. absolutely no debriefing not that I. think debriefing really does that much. but you so in the military you come back. from deployment so they they they give. you a week of RNR at like some Resort. and they talk to you you talk to a. therapist and then you go home I didn't. have that cuz this is this was not a. planned exit and so I'm just home and I. was so mad at everything I they call it. being in the red I'm sure you're. familiar when you I was saying earlier. you know when you go to a combat.

deployment again I have my one. experience but this is what I had you. you enter into that kind of Primal. mindset of eat sleep go to the gym you. know hang out with your friends and. don't get killed and kill the bad guys. like that's the gist of of a wartime. deployment like it's very simple coming. out of that is very hard and when you go. from actually being on the battlefield. to a couple of days later with no. transition being around civilians and.

your wife and you're just like doing. stuff again the level of resentment for. civilians was so high I hated everybody. I'm like you entitled piece of do you do. you have any idea what I was just doing. that that that's what's going through my. head like you don't know the been. through but I had some I've been through. and felt like justified in thinking that. way but it was like so toxic I couldn't. interact with people without judging. them for not having done the things I. did which is not a good way to live your. life because you just come off like a. total um and and it came out actually.

within a few days of being home uh my. wife we're living in Virginia Beach and. she's like uh Hey so we keep getting. this message from the homeowners. association about our rusted Chimney Cap. they want us to change it and we're like. broke we have no money and we can't. afford right now anyways to drop 500. bucks or whatever it was to go fix the. chimney cap and I was like why does that. evening matter about a rusted Chimney. Cap like who cares but we're in an HOA. and they care about that stuff and so I. remember I'm a few days later I got a. call from the HOA or not even we got. another letter from the HOA with a.

picture of our Rusty cap and it was. worded like hey you know the rule is you. need to have a fixed Chimney Cap here. are some people you can call to get that. done and I'm like no and I pick up the. phone and I call the woman who'd sent. this letter and I'm like do you have any. clue who you just sent this letter to do. you know what I've been through and she. was like sir I don't know who you are. like of course she doesn't know but it. was like in my mind in me I'm like how. dare you ask me to do this like that's. so it was like so stupid but all I was.

doing was fishing for conflict like. that's what I was doing I wanted people. to to to question who I was and what. I've done in order to be like do you. know who I am you know what I mean it. was totally like ego I'm mad at. everybody um but because I was actually. like physically hurt I didn't have I. didn't go out and spew my toxicity as. much as I would have I just stayed home. and my wife when I arrived at the. hospital in Virginia she she met me. there and actually so my my my liaison.

so you get what's called a Care. Coalition liaison basically when you get. shipped off the battlefield because you. got hurt you you get given like a mentor. if you will of another vet who got hurt. at some point and they're like you're. rep and they help you go through the VA. process and everything and you know who. Mike day is I do yeah so he he was my. Care Coalition unfortunately obviously. took his life um but Mike Mike was. awesome I like we got to the hospital. and the doctors and nurses had no time.

for my wife it was like here's your. husband take him home yeah pacas wounds. figure it out but Mike is like what the. are you doing like he was literally. talking to the nurses and doctors being. like get the over here and teach her how. to do it like she's been packing her. husband's wounds like get over here and. do it and they're like oh sorry and like. for for those who don't know Mike day is. like a legend he was shot 27 times in. IRA and lived like every bullet hole he. tattooed where the Bullet Hole was. actually I did a bike ride with him in. uh 2015 across California for charity.

and he's just he was the coolest dude so. sad what happened with him but Mike day. absolute Legend he he made the. transition as smooth as it could be at. the hospital but after he got the. doctors to come over my wife who's. seeing her husband for the first time. who by the way when the news came out. like on the night of the injury which. actually it's coming up it was April. 19th of. 2014 um uh on the night that happened in. 2014 my wife got a call that something.

had happened to your husband but they. they were trying to keep her in the loop. but unfortunately they planted the seed. that your husband could be dead and then. they couldn't get back in touch with her. so there was like this 12-h hour period. where she was told a serious thing has. happened you know I don't know what the. language was but it was clear to her. that something serious has happened with. your husband and we'll be in touch soon. silence and then it was like I was in. surgery I I couldn't talk to anybody I'm. I'm gone and then I got shipped to. Germany and it was like I didn't even.

know how many days I'd been there I. think it was there for at least a day. before I woke up and this whole time my. wife has no idea what's going on with me. she's only been told something serious. has happened and then I I think by like. the 12 hour mark my OIC who's awesome. his name his name is I think he snuck a. call and gave her some information that. was like I think he's going to be okay. but don't quote me on it but her. experience with this injury was like the. worst it could be you're basically told. you know the person you love is. potentially dead and now we'll just wait. you know and she to her credit she's.

living alone you know we don't have kids. our families are nowhere near. Virginia she could have immediately. notified the entire family and been like. holy like Comfort comfort me like what's. going on here but instead she was like I. don't know what happened and I don't. want to scare his family and so for like. 12 hours by herself didn't talk to. anyone and just waited I don't know how. you do that knowing that you could be. told in a any minute that your husband's. dead but she waited and it was the right.

decision because when word came out it. was like he's okay he's in Germany he's. going to be fine and so I give her. enormous amount of credit for just being. composed she she would have passed pool. comp she's very not panicky she's the. opposite uh she should have been the. seal not me and so she uh but when when. Mike called over the surgeon to like no. show her how to do this so I had these. two wounds basically on my on my butt. cheek and on my my thigh that needed to. be packed every day multiple times a day. or they'd get infected and it fell on my.

wife and so this doctor showed her how. to do it and she practically fainted. because it's like so gross and like so. it's so painful for me like I can't help. but be like as you're doing it you know. but you know that was her like all right. I'm going to do it after nearly painting. she's like okay I'm going to do it and. then for like a month I mean my wife was. doing the nasty job of doing wound care. and like you know I go to the bathroom. and I I can't really clean myself I. can't really go to I can't shower it's. like my wife did that my wife looked.

after me and and then then I I had to go. to this wound care appointment uh this. is like a month after being home and so. I go to Portsmith Hospital which is in. Virginia it's like the VA it's the. veteran hospital and I have the. scheduled visit and now at this point in. no way am I like you know on the brink. of death I'm completely stable and now. it's just hey you got these these pretty. nasty wounds on your leg like we just. got to make sure they heal right um and. one of them wasn't really healing right.

so I had to go I had to go in for this. appointment and so my wife and I go to. this appointment and I check in and I'm. like hobbling I'm still in a lot of pain. and the nurse brings me back to the exam. room and I am put on this like gurnie. and because it's my backside they're. like all right you know take off your. clothes put the Scout on and you're. going to lay on this this bench and then. someone's going to come in and and take. a look at you I'm like all right so I. get naked and I get I put my my gown on. and I lay on the thing and I'm like the. the seat is like arched my butt is like. in the air I'm basically nude and all.

the stream of like E1 like brand new. recruit nurses who are great but they. have no experience they come in and they. start like poking and prodding at like. my wound and what happened to you again. like what's going on here and finally. like what the is this like where's the. doctor like why are you guys in here. like I in the most compromised position. I'm in so much pain and no one seems to. know what's going on like what's going. on and so the doctor winds up coming. into the room like a minute later cuz I. like threw a whole fit and he's like Mr.

Alan I hear you've been pretty rude to. my staff and I [ __ ] lost my temper it. was like as far into the red as you. could go and now you've pushed me too. far and I basically like fought so much. with this doctor that I stopped going to. wound care and it fell into entirely on. my. wife care so she was a champ and she she. took care of me for for months until I. was better wow what so when your platoon. came back what what was it like when. you reintegrated with them it was.

awesome to see them again uh we were so. close as a platoon I mean from what I've. been told cuz I only had the two. rotations I did very different I had the. the combat tour and I had the South. America like you know drug interdiction. whatever tour the the first one the. combat tour my first platoon we were. like brothers best friends you know. there was issues here and there but. really really close uh and then my. second rotation we were close but it. just wasn't the same it was not the same.

camaraderie but that first platoon you. know the older guys were saying this is. a special group I mean I've been in. sever these are them talking you know. I've been in several platoon this one's. really special and it felt that way you. know we were we got together immediately. after that Plato came back and people. were so happy to see me I was so happy. to see them and frankly I was so happy. to hear nobody got killed you know. because they at the end there we had. several guys on the platoon get shot and. definitely nearly get killed so it was. great to see them again and a lot of. those guys rolled into the next rotation.

like certainly the new guys we were. basically together for the next rotation. which was. cool but I mean the magic of that. platoon it it dissipated as soon as we. were home because Suddenly It's like. everyone's got new orders we're going. different directions it's it's a new. chapter and it kind of ended you know. you know it's I I I kept in touch with a. lot of those guys candidly a lot of. those guys are no longer in my life uh. and we'll probably get into that as well. but um what what what initiated you and. the medic to revisit that experience.

five which is five or six years later. four years later actually his wife I I. recall reaching out to me and said John. I know this is kind of out of out of the. blue but you need to talk to he's not. doing well and you just got to talk. talked to him and when I actually had um. maybe a year before this had a weird. medical scare which I don't think was. connected to anything I think he just. had this freak liver issue and he. actually nearly died but it was clear.

when he was nearly dying that just he. was just kind of falling apart as a. person in addition to this horrible. thing that that was happening to him and. so I was kind of aware that was maybe. not doing so good even when he got out. of the hospital and so when she messaged. me I was like you know what I I really I. want to talk to him I want to go through. what happened we both were there for it. we're the only ones that can have this. conversation and so I actually told his. wife like you know kind of number and I. called him and and he was immediately. receptive to the idea he like yeah let's. do it let's just go talk and it was very.

important we talked because I think we. both needed to just say it's okay to the. other you know it's in a weird way we. both felt bad about the whole situation. not doing enough you know feels bad it. wasn't him and it's it was just a chance. for us to just kind of be like you know. what dude happens and we're okay and. we're good now so so was it four years. later you actually got the story of what. actually happened so you had thought. that for four years yeah I what was that. like to realize holy it was completely.

different than a totally different. reality yeah I mean it was it was. surprising because I actually really. believed my memory was super clear cuz I. that was my memory you know and and when. he was like that isn't what happened you. know I looked down and I thought you. were on a sheet of ice at first but then. I realized it's this pool of blood and I. have all these other people to work on. and you seemed like the most far gone. and I was like so you so you actively. were like I'm not going to work on John. he's like I literally I was like you're. dead I'm going to work on the people.

that are alive and so that was like wow. yeah at what point did you we're running. a little short on time so I don't want. to cover your second deployment but I do. want to know much to it at what at what. point did you decide this is I'm done. I'm I'm ready to try something new I. went to war yeah you know this is. actually a part of my story that I I. don't often get into because it's just a. little bit complicated but since we're. deep diving I'll try to make it. relatively short so I come back from.

Afghanistan and you know I'm hurt and I. spend several months basically just. rehabbing the team was not asking me to. go to any schools or do anything it was. like go to your medical appointments get. better and I was definitely so I I had. in addition to the the stal injuries to. my leg which actually wound up being the. most minor of all of them only because. it didn't affect my ability to walk the. the explosion from the grenade according. to my orthopedic surgeon uh the blast. very likely briefly dislocated both my.

shoulders and it caused a SLAP tear uh. in the laum of both of my. shoulders and it caused just a lot of. uncomfortability and my my arms just. didn't work as well I couldn't really do. as much and so I opted to get a surgery. on my right shoulder called a biceps. tendon is where they remove a piece of. your bicep and they reattach it to your. your laum or something or your shoulder. it's like a Band-Aid that works but long. term does not provide a solution for the. tear it allows you to be functional but. it's like it comes with pain and not.

full Mobility but I really wanted to get. back into a rotation I wanted to do. another platoon I wanted to be a seal. and so I opted for the surgery because. it was the fastest one to get me back. into the team and so I did the surgery. and it worked now but the recover y was. way longer than they build it they're. like dude you'll get the surgery and. then a month later you'll be fine not. true like I got the surgery and my. shoulder was worse for about a year. where I I could use my arm but you know. just doing a pull-up was impossible with. this one and my left one I never got the.

surgery on it because it was less bad. but it's anyway so I just I have serious. shoulder issues and I also uh despite. that I was allowed to enter into another. rotation because I basically hid my. issues I was having with my shoulder. um but I also noticed that I was having. a really hard time sleeping I. just so I'm a sleepwalker I am. genetically a sleepwalker my my dad. sleepwalked and I didn't grow out of it. I I continued to sleepwalk into my.

adulthood and it's it's sucks because it. affects most nights that I sleep but. after I came back from Afghanistan I. noticed that my sleepwalking took a. really intense turn and it was like just. fear of death I would I would I would if. you have you sleepwalked before like a. serious sleepwalking event no okay in. essence you you wake up and you're aware. you're. awake and there's also something that is. of the utmost importance to you and it's. always bad this is I've read a lot about.

sleepwalking there's always some urgent. item that was plaguing you in your sleep. and it's basically triggered you to wake. up and for me it became someone's trying. to kill me or something's about to kill. me it's right behind me kind of thing. and I began waking up in in absolute. like pandemonium panic and running as. fast as I could and leaping off the. second floor stairs down to the first. floor to escape the upstairs that I. thought someone was trying to kill me. and then I'd like run outside and it was.

only then that I'm all the way outside. and I [ __ ] myself up I had all these. cuts and bruises on my legs from jumping. down my stairs like repeatedly from. sleepwalking to the point where I I. actually now I I I still do this by the. way I have to sleep in certain parts of. my house by myself CU I'm such a in. liability as a sleepwalker but it's like. I wa what hold on what like what does. that mean where can you be so the first. floor I sleep in a room where I'm far. enough away from the stairs like there's. different rooms in my house I'll sleep.

in that are not with my wife because I'm. violent and aggressive when I'm. sleepwalking because I think I'm being. chased or I think a bomb's going to blow. up next to me and so I began to notice. that there were manifestations of I. guess PTSD or depression really coming. from. Afghanistan but I I felt like I was so. self-aware that it's like no way like I. I don't feel like I have PTSD I actually. feel like I'm proud of the deployment I. did I'm proud of what what I'm doing now. I I want to go deploy again but it was.

like I have issues with my shoulders. that are becoming a big enough problem. that's hard to do the job I have pain in. my legs from the shrapnel and I am now. sleepwalking basically living out these. like near death experiences five times a. week at least still to this day by the. way it's an ongoing issue for me um that. in conjunction with just being so. irritable about everything like. everybody made me mad everybody and so.

I'm like this horrible person to be. around during my second deployment which. was to South. America and you know honestly I had like. a breakdown in South America you know I. got there and I think that I really. hadn't processed Afghanistan really at. all uh when I came back cuz it was all. about like get that quick surgery get. back into a rotation like don't worry. about the weird that's happening with. your dreams and pain and this and that. just just keep going keep being a seal. but I arrived in South America and when.

I got there what actually really threw. me off was I weirdly expected to get. there and have it be lots of people who. knew English which was so ignorant of me. because I could have very easily. research this and known but I got to. Peru and it's like all Spanish speaking. they do not speak English in Peru if. they do it's rare and I arrived. separately from the rest of the group. because I was in this uh I was in a. school I was in jtech school and so I. show up to Peru on my own and I don't. speak Spanish or very badly and it was.

like such culture shock of being in and. I I was like it's not combat like what's. this what's this deployment even going. to be I'm like so egotistical like who. cares about this deployment we're going. to go sit in South America and do. nothing but then I get to South America. and I'm like oh I didn't really think. about the fact that I'm going to be in a. foreign country that really is foreign. for months at a time and my wife is. pregnant with our first kid like I. suddenly was like I don't want to be. here like I don't even know if I'm going. to survive just sleepwalking here like I.

had all these weird thoughts of like. what am I doing here like I kind of hate. this job and like what am I what am I. doing and so I just like spiraled into. like an ungodly depression in like the. first few weeks I was there and my my. teammates had to step in and like take. my gun away from me in my room in fear I. would shoot myself man yeah no I mean. like it was and and it was and frankly. dude it's weird I I was so down in Peru. in those first few weeks that I began.

hallucinating I was so [ __ ] miserable. that I would be laying in my bed and. would become convinced I was on a street. corner in Russia like I don't that's. that's the recurring hallucination I. would have of like losing touch with. reality I was so I wanted to and die. candidly I was like I don't even know. why but I don't want to be here um and. so that deployment luckily my teammates. who were there they were with me in. Afghanistan and like understood okay. like it kind of makes sense this this. could be happening and to their credit.

they did not report back like frankly my. horrible Behavior I was like now that. I'm out it doesn't matter but I was like. doing drugs and all sorts of stuff like. I was just being a piece of basically. just like I was drowning myself and like. isolating myself in my room and just. being being miserable and they stepped. in and basically did an intervention. with me and I had someone with me. basically all the time including my my. buddy who like literally stayed in the. room with me to make sure I went to. sleep at night so I wouldn't kill. myself um and so when I came back from.

that deployment uh also my wife has a a. child we have a child now it was like I. don't think I can do this job anymore I. actually don't think I'm cut out for. this job I think I'm mentally and. physically not equipped to do this and I. luckily was at a point where I was. getting transitioned to a teaching role. anyways I was not going to be deploying. again but um really quickly when I got. to the place I was going to be teaching. diving so for. ATC my leadership actually one of the.

guys was one of my buds instructors who. I loved he was he was actually a second. phase instructor who we joked about how. terrible I was at pool comp CU he. remembered he was like you were really. bad but uh he's like bro you got to see. somebody you are [ __ ] up you guys you. got to see the psych like now and he was. in charge of me and he literally was. like you can't work today you have to go. see the psych um and I'll always be. thankful for that because it started me. on a journey of realizing therapy was. actually really useful for me um not so.

much the military stuff I went and saw a. psych and she was like Jesus Christ like. I went through what had happened in. Afghanistan and like kind of all the. things I've said here and so ultimately. I was medically retired I think it was. you know 50% of it was just mentally. unfit cannot do this job and then it was. like you know 20% for shoulders and 30%. for this but it wound up being you know. pretty comprehensive like even if you. told me I want to stay in now that we've. gone through all this you're not fit to. do this job and so I was medically. retired and um you know the there's a.

whole another version of this or there's. a whole thing that happens afterwards. but for the sake of time I I had. originally had been told I would have a. an exit date my medical retirement would. hit let's say I think it was like the. early part of 2018 or something I forget. when it was but there was some date you. know far off in the future that I could. eye you know a year and a half from now. that'll be the day that I'm officially. out and from now until then I'll be. working in this teaching cell teaching. diving which is very low-key I'm not. going to deploy I get to be home all the.

time and it was like great it's like. okay I have all this time I'm going to. be fine I'm getting the help I need and. then I'll get out and I'll figure it out. but then in classic military fashion it. was. like April of 2017 this is this is. February 2017 I'm having this come to. Jesus with my therapist and my wife and. we're like okay we're going to pursue. medical retirement a month later I find. out that actually your thing's going to. run out in I think it was like two. months away it was like you know in May. of 2017 so like a year earlier than.

expected you're going to get your. medical retirement but you're going to. be out the door sooner than you. thought and that ultimately prompted. what would become Elite meat uh the. charity that I ended up forming and then. the the the mentorship program that I. also co-founded called operators. Association and then led to to Mr ball. and stuff so I'm going to pause there. well John let's um let's take a quick. break yeah and then when we come back. we'll get into Elite meet and Mr Ballin.

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of your transition out of the military. actually you are out now medically. retired you're starting Elite meat mhm. what was Elite meat what is it so Elite. meat is a charity so reged 501c3 that's. the denomination for. charity um that helps transitioning we. called them elite elite veterans. basically special operators fighter. pilots and we kind of expanded it beyond. that but people who are transitioning. out of those communities and we we pair.

them up in a kind of networking. conferenc style setup with hiring. managers and CEOs and people from. business who are actually looking for. people like this group of people and the. reason that that charity came into. existence is because is even though I. think that today there maybe people feel. a type of away about this but generally. speaking special operators do or or. special ops people fighter pilots they. don't necessarily do a good job. advertising to the world what they did. and why it's applicable to other things.

it's kind of like the I don't talk about. what I did because I don't want to be. seen as someone who's not humble it's a. big part of the culture but as a result. you have all these businesses that could. really get a lot of value out of having. you know some master chief Navy SEAL on. their team or something but they don't. know how to find them and the master. chief ain't about to come out and be. like hey I I'm ready to be hired here's. all my skills here's all the my Navy. SEAL stuff that makes me so hirable for. you and so what we ended up becoming was. like the broker between the two we are.

able to speak veteran this type of. Veteran and tell you what this job means. and what they do in a way that the. businesses can understand and then vice. versa we can translate the civilian. speak business speak to the veterans and. can I can speak Special Operations. veteran there there's a there's a. culture to it and I can tell you what. this opportunity is and so uh I didn't. do this alone and it kind it came out of. nowhere I when I found out my exit date. was going to be much earlier than. expected from the military my medical.

retirement got pushed up I began like. frantically trying to figure out what I. was going to do for a job and I had no. idea and I just thought well I guess. I'll just go on LinkedIn because I guess. that's where people get jobs at this. point I have no social media I I have an. email address called chubby Chihuahua. something or other at hotmail.com like I. I have been off the internet for like 8. 10 years or whatever it is and I just. was like oh LinkedIn that's where you go. and so I went on LinkedIn and just by. pure happen stance there was this guy. named Jordan celik who is this.

entrepreneur in New York City who was a. he was an investment banker and he had. transitioned into trying to start his. own PE type of business private Equity. business I forget what he was doing but. he was like in finance right and he had. a really good friend who was a fighter. pilot who was struggling with his. transition even though he had like gone. to Harvard and had all these amazing. credentials he just wasn't quite able to. translate his experience to to the. civilian world and Jordan was like. actively trying to help him and one of. the ways he was doing that was Jordan.

who's a very extroverted guy who's like. a master networker he was just hitting. up veterans on LinkedIn and being like. hey how's your experience been. transitioning out of the military and. what are some tips and tricks you can. give me to to pass on to my buddy just. that that was all he was doing and he. messaged me and I'm like oh wow like who. is this guy like this is so great like. oh I'm really struggling I don't know. what I'm going to do and like I could. really use some help and and he's like. oh like well have you tried talking to. people I think that could help and. basically Jordan kind of quickly took me. under his wing a little bit and instead.

of trying to get information from me. because I obviously didn't have any. about how to transition he's like I'll. help you too I don't I don't know you. but I'll help you too uh and so over the. course of like a couple weeks Jordan. just all digitally recognized that my. biggest fail point for my job search is. I didn't know anybody I only knew. military people I didn't know anybody on. the civilian side didn't know who to go. to didn't know what companies did I knew. nothing I'm like completely isolated in. the military world and he's like you. really just need to start meeting people.

I will introduce you to people in New. York come to New York I'll round up all. my my my connections in New York I'll. tell them you're coming here bring a. couple of your buddies who we. transitioning out and we'll just we'll. have a meeting you know we'll see what. happens cuz Jordan is just this guy like. that's what he does he's very good at. say whatever we'll just go do it and. little did he know that I would really. run with this and I would start rounding. up all the people that I knew that were. getting out of the teams or thinking. about it and said come to New York with. me we got to meet some people like come. along uh and Jordan really did the same.

thing with the business side and so we. had this like spectacular first event. the first ever Elite meet event in New. York in March of I think it was like. 2017 or 2018 where Jordan and I who were. meeting for the first time in New York. work for this event at least in person. we had like we had our talks planned and. we're up there on stage like talking to. the different groups and like setting up. these these like breakout rooms and. stuff and we're looking at each other. like this is more than just let's get JN. a job by doing this and bring some.

people along there's like a Marketplace. for whatever this is cuz it was like so. obvious that both sides needed to be. talking to each other and they were. getting a lot out of it and a few people. got hired like out of this event not me. I didn't get a job but other people did. uh and so pretty quickly my job became. being the CEO of this new charity Elite. meet where we take transitioning Elite. vets and pair them up with hiring. businesses that are like really high-end. and for about two years all I did was. just ran a charity and I I was the CEO.

of the charity and I'm like a horrible. CEO I'm good fundraiser I can raise. money but I I I was so bad at managing. people I had like two employees you know. what I mean it was too much like two two. was too many but it was it was good it. was honestly the charity did a lot of. good and it's still running right now. Elite meet is under the control of a. woman named Megan thatford who's a. longtime nonprofit professional and. they're doing great but uh with Elite. meat this is how Elite meat led to.

everything else I'm doing uh it all. started with meeting Jordan on LinkedIn. and then when we had this first event in. the leadup to it this first ever event. in New York we began making posts on. LinkedIn just kind of advertising like. hey if if you are also a business person. in New York and you want to swing by. send us a message and you know we'll see. if you're a fit kind of thing and so I I. began to see what happens when you. Market on social media and it was like. really kind of cool that wow you can you. can kind of announce to the world you're.

doing something and people actually. listen and I it just kind of planted in. my mind that social media is a really. powerful tool and if if it's harnessed. correctly it can do more than anything. else can do for you and Jordan. specifically was like obsessed with. social media he was a big uh Gary. vaynerchuck fan and Gary ve is like all. about posting like 57 million times a. day on every platform and so I was. around that all the time and after that. first event went so well and we're like. dude let's make this a real charity. let's let's put some infrastructure. around this let's host more events.

across the whole country social media is. where we went to raise money we posted. stories on LinkedIn about these veterans. and their experiences and how they they. could translate to the civilian world or. what lessons they learned that are. applicable to the civilian world and. they were really popular and these are. posts that Jordan and I were both. writing like individually but mine were. were really effective and they were. driving donations not big donations but. enough to keep the business going and to. pay a salary and to pay my employees and. I just social media and the internet.

that that was my moment of like that's. the thing I want to really lean into in. my career whatever it's going to be and. so I began experimenting and this is. where we're going to get into a very. tough difficult subject for me I began. experimenting after Elite meat had kind. of steadied we have you know good. payroll we have a good you know a. revenue solid like the company solid I. began experimenting with posting content. on not just LinkedIn but other platforms. that was just my content like just. personal brand not I didn't even know.

what it would be it was more like okay I. have a little bit of experience on how. to use LinkedIn and kind of get it now. now I'm going to try to start my own. thing basically not forget about Elite. meat not at all if anything this brand. might help Elite meat I'm thinking maybe. they can work in tandem I don't know but. I made the mistake of posting stories. about my time in the SEAL Teams in a way. that came off as very braggadocious like. there was this time I was in Afghanistan. and you know what I mean it was like it.

just came off as like total like just a. combat vet over here like look at me and. uh I posted all the time on Instagram. and Linkedin about my experiences and I. thought they were fine I thought what I. was talking about was not sensitive and. it was not intended to make me think I. was I'm not trying to be Mr AB SE all. but behind the scenes every time I. posted these things these like long form. writeups I would do about some random. experience I had in Afghanistan or South. America or buds or whatever and there. was always some like and this is what it.

translates to in business like there was. a reason for it but every post they were. being read voraciously mhm and I. actually have I think it was May of 2018. I forget the. date I was starting to to feel like my. personal brand my Navy SEAL brand was. really starting to pick up I had like. 40,000 Instagram followers and and I. just felt like this could be a thing you. know I'm still doing AAP meet and like. very seriously I haven't in any way. forgotten about it and I got a message.

from a guy that I would have called one. of my very best friends that we deployed. to Afghanistan together we when I say I. have taken fire next to this person I. mean literally I have been crouched. behind a wall right next to him as we're. taking effective incoming fire together. like this is somebody that I would say. is like a brother and I got a message. from him that was like 10 pages long. cutting me to pieces and not bullsh he.

was taking things I was saying in these. posts and rephrasing them so that they. were true now as if I was lying in these. posts and to his credit I definitely did. kind make the story more I don't know. like applicable I kind of warped it. slightly to really fit the narrative I. wanted it to hit but I wasn't going out. there being like and I'm the team leader. and I made this decision and I'm the guy. that did that it was always like. self-deprecating like I was just a new. guy and this is only my experience but.

it was being viewed as you're trying to. make yourself out as bigger than you. really were I was there and you weren't. that guy and it sucked so bad and that. was the beginning of a landslide side of. negativity but as a result actually I. would say that the the the big Silver. Lining of of the the hate I received um. or whatever you want to call it the. criticism or. whatever I still really felt like social.

media has it's just this huge. opportunity you know there's so many. people making it huge on the internet. YouTube or businesses or whatever I was. like man I I still want to do social. media I just I can't handle what's. happening if I post about my own stuff. and so after long talks with my wife it. it became like dude you should just. delete it and try something else and so. I deleted virtually everything that was. kind of like the token seal stuff I left. a couple things on that were super. benign and felt like no big deal but 99%.

of it's gone and then I began posting on. Tik Tok right around the time that Tik. Tok had become a thing in early 2020 and. the reason I was posting there is I'm. like no seals are going to be on this. app this is a bunch of kids dancing so I. was like an opportunity and I tried so. many different types of content on Tik. Tok that did not work ranging from you. know news commentary to like reactions. to SK sketch comedy to all these. different things just anything that. wasn't seal stuff I was trying other.

stuff you know nothing worked and and I. I literally had these two documents in. my computer and it was you know Tik Tok. ideas and Tik Tok ideas too like two. different documents the first document. was all the stuff I had tried You Know. sketch comedy whatever none of it worked. just super cringe didn't work and I had. this other one that just had a deat laav. pass written on it it was just one topic. and it's because personally I really. like strange dark and mysterious content. I find myself going on YouTube and and.

being drawn to kind of like spooky. mysterious True Crime Mysteries that's. the stuff that I like I I personally. that's the stuff I consume and I. remember I had that document I de law of. pass is a very famous story about these. hikers that go missing and then I 1950s. they were hiking into the eural. mountains um to take this thing called. their level three hiking test which. sounds really lame but it's actually. like the highest level of mountaineering. in Russia at the time and so these nine. hikers were the best at mountaineering.

by far they're like celebrities in. mountaineering and if they pass this. test and become level three it's it's a. really big deal but critically these are. people that are are Masters at being out. on the mountain they know what they're. doing and they go out on this trip and. this is the 1950s so there's no cell. phones or anything they just had these. these checkpoints they would have to hit. where there would be campsite set up and. a team waiting for them and if they hit. these campsites on time it meant they. covered the distance they were supposed. to and they'd get a check or whatever. you know they you're progressing exactly. as you should and they I think they hit.

their first checkpoint and then they did. not hit their next checkpoint at the. designated time and then there's a whole. protocol that gets spun up of sending a. team out to go find them to make sure. they're okay and so the team that gets. spun up they end up tracing between the. checkpoint they hit and the one they. missed they go all the way right to like. the middle and they find the campsite of. these hikers and it's up on this wind. swept Mountainside that's all snow and. it's just a couple of small canvas tents. and there's no one in them uh they've. been cut open but it looks like they've.

been cut open From the Inside by a knife. and then inside the tents were stacks of. some of their clothing neatly folded and. placed all around the tent there were a. couple of shoes still in there so that. you know one shoe is gone one shoe is. here and then from the the tent and. there's pictures of this too you can. Google deav pass pictures there was a. trail of footprints from these tents. that went down the snowy mountain to. this little crops of trees and at the. trees there were these I think I forget. how many like two or three of these. missing hikers that were deceased they.

were nude or close to nude and there. were all these scratch marks on this. this tree that looked like an animal had. been clawing at it and I think one of. them had actually gotten into a tree and. passed away up there and they hadd all. died of exposure ultimately um but that. was only like three of the the missing. hikers and they followed the the trail. the foot marks that went maybe a mile. away to this snow cave that was not too. far off and inside was the rest of the. hikers and they were also all deceased. and some of them were missing parts of. their face but it looked like they had. been surgically removed like the nose.

the mouth the lips that kind of thing a. lot of them had exchanged clothing so. the women were wearing men's clothes and. vice versa um some were wearing one shoe. or none and also they were there were. Trace levels of radiation on on on them. or their clothing but there's radiation. in the. cave also at the same time this happened. the uh the Russian military was doing an. exercise roughly in the area that these. hikers were neither knew the other was. there it just it happened to be the same. time frame and one of their senior. leaders in the military uh did a report.

on this particular night where his unit. had spotted all these lights in the sky. hovering over the area where these. hikers had all been found he doesn't. know about the hikers and he's never. made a report like this ever in his. career like this is a unique report and. he wanted to know if there was another. military potentially doing an exercise. in that area because whatever they're. doing it's it's not us like it's. somebody else is over there um and so. that was routed up through the chain and. when they checked they're like oh shoot. like that was the same time as these. missing hikers like what's going on here.

the Russian government launches this. investigation into diatlov and they're. they have this this famous conclusion. that's so lame but only adds more. mystery and I'm I'm probably going to. say it wrong but it's the hikers their. conclusion was the hikers died from some. unknown unnatural cause end closed case. that's it that's it and so all it did is. it just created rampant speculation that. something paranormal happened here or. you know whatever it was and so I always.

thought that story was fascinating. mostly because the pictures associated. with it are very creepy they're pictures. of the people and the campsite and the. tree and it's just this longstanding I. mean technically it's solved uh but it. was unsolved mystery. U and I I I posted about the de love. pass finally on Tik Tok after all my. other ideas had been exhausted and the. only reason I didn't do this one is it. just felt like such a random departure. from traditional like trendy types of. content like humor and sketch comedy and.

this and that or my military stuff that. I had stopped doing this just felt so. random that I wondered if people would. ridicule me for being a grown man. telling a ghost story basically on a. kid's platform I was like you know what. what I have to lose I'm probably going. to stop doing content soon anyways cuz. nothing's working and we were at this. water park in Pennsylvania my wife me my. kids and this is the indoor water park. and I decide to make this de love pass. Tik Tok and so I'm in our little hotel. room and I threw together this crappy. little video just practically off the.

cuff about theat love pass and I post it. but because we're going to be in the. water park where it's going to be wet I. just left my phone in the room something. I never do but went to the water park. and you know several hours later we came. back and I look at my phone and it it. actually wasn't I couldn't get it to. open it was like not working and I. plugged it in let's see if it was. working finally turned it on and I had. notifications enabled on Tik Tok which I. don't now but at the time I did and. there were so many notifications from. this video likes comments posts that my. phone was like unable to handle the flow.

of traffic and like couldn't get into. the app and then when I finally did. there was like 5 million views on this. video you know in a matter of a few. hours and and you know for for reference. before this point I had never had a. video surpass even you know 10 or 20. 20,000 views maybe 100,000 views but it. would have been over years of time so. I've never gone viral and now this is. like the most viral you're going to go. and even though I didn't know what it. would become I felt like I found.

something that could work on the. internet that is not military related. that I love to do I love strange dark. mysterious and I love storytelling and I. was like I'm going to make as many of. these stories on Tik Tok as I can and. see what happens happens and ultimately. what happened is the account blew up and. it became you know a pretty big account. on Tik Tok when everybody's in in the. pandemic and glued to their phones I'm. like the token adult Storyteller on the. kids app so I stood out quite a bit um. and then I transitioned to YouTube. around like mid 2020 just because it was.

a more monetizable platform and it just. took off I mean it was the same. storytelling but instead of 60 seconds I. just told stories that were 20 minutes. long and you know I just it became the. whole Mr ball thing and I can't believe. that's what I do now it's uh you know it. definitely goes to show you do what you. love you know very true do what you love. and it will work but you you know takes. a little work to find what you love but. yeah I remember we had that conversation.

some it fell off then I can't remember. why I looked you up or somebody told me. about something happened and I pulled up. your your YouTube I think it was YouTube. and I was like holy sh like this guy. just started this like I couldn't. believe it like he wanted to come on the. show now he's got two or three million. Subs I've been doing this for a couple. year I was like whoa that's incredible. and then so many things have been born.

out of out of your Tik Tok account. YouTube you're on. tours you got a book coming out from. what I understand you have a foundation. yep you have balling Studios I do have a. question yeah your name's John Allen. yeah how did Mr Ballin come in so uh I. originally started an account on Tik Tok. under the username John B Allen 416 that. was just the random username I had but I. didn't have any punctuation in it and so.

it looked like j o h n b a l l n all. kind of mashed together and if you just. glance at it it looks like John Ballin. it doesn't you wouldn't think oh that's. John B Allen unless you knew me you'd. think that's John Ballin for six that's. who this person is and that's important. because when I was doing my I'm Mr Navy. SEAL stuff and getting a lot of hate I. at the same time kind of ironically was. getting all these Young Bucks that are. trying to be seals like I was back in. the day who are so desperate to talk to. seals and to get information to get.

answers to questions and learn about. buds that I was getting so many incoming. messages from aspiring wnab be Navy. Seals that were very respectful this is. the opposite of hate this is like you're. my idol I want to be like you and so. they'd be very respectful in their. Instagram DMS they'd say excuse me Mr. Ballin uh I have a question about the. Navy SEAL training can you answer and I. got so many messages and I and I stopped. correcting them I'm like my name is. actually John Allen I was like okay so I. just became Mr Ballin and then I.

actually very briefly got shadowbanned. early on in Tik Tok I believe I was. shadowbanned which means you're posting. but for some reason it gets like zero. views there's no real reason for it and. it was going on for like a couple weeks. where I'd post and get one view or two. views when I was used to getting a TH or. 2,000 on this this first account and I. was like all right I'll just make a new. account clearly there's something wrong. with it and the first name that popped. my head was Mr Ballin interesting. interesting so what what do you got. coming out now so we have a graphic.

novel our first official Mr Ballin. publication which is unreal it is unreal. we have the the best in business uh. illustrator and the comic book uh writer. who helps package stories together but. it's a collection of just in some new. some old stories and that's coming out. October 1st of this year and it's an. absolute passion project it's going to. be awesome it's the strange dark. mysterious delivered in book format for. the first time so there's that um.

there's also uh so we did a live event. well we've done a couple digital Live. Events but we did an actual in-person. you know comparable to standup comedy. but standup storytelling last October um. in Austin Texas I did a just a one night. show at the the Paramount Theater in. Austin um and that was awesome you know. doing you know five stories on stage I. was so scared but I've always wanted to. do live something um and so that was. great and so we're thinking about you. know maybe doing some more live live. events for sure so stay tuned for Live.

Events um and then yeah we have gosh we. have the Ballin Studios which is kind of. like the umbrella over everything and uh. within that we have you know Mr Ballin. foundation and we've given over a. million to victims of violent crime and. their families and that's got its own. team and basically proceeds from Mr. Ballin fund the organization and allow. people to donate and 100% of their. donations go out the door like there's. no overhead if you donate five bucks. five bucks goes out the door to victims.

of violent crime in their families um. just because we feel really strongly. that you know we are profiting off of. other people's tragedies there's no two. ways about it and so we have to give. back literally to the people that we're. making money on and frankly it's been. kind of wonderful to to meet these. people that you get to meet them yeah. yeah indirectly because we have an. amazing I do meet some of them not all. of them but I definitely meet some of. them and it's it's crazy cuz I mean I I. there's this there's a guy named so so. you'll tell a story MH and then raise.

the money not necessarily from a store. whatever you'll tell a story a strange. dark and mysterious story about a victim. yep and then raise the money and then. the money actually goes to that victim. and you you meet them. I would say that it's not onetoone like. that but that has definitely happened. it's more like we have a constant. initiative to seek out and fund other. Charities that are helping victims of. violent crime in their families and we. do direct deposits to people families.

from Uvalde like we spent we sent. $50,000 like within an hour of that. happening just to like the the the. bereavement Center in South Texas and. then we sent another $50,000 to one of. the families who just needed help with. funerals and stuff like that. uh but we have definitely had videos. where literally the people in the video. received funds from the foundation um. we've also had instances where kind of. after the fact we've gone back and given. money to some of those people as well um. but it's more of like a constant effort.

by a pretty robust team over at the. foundation led by a woman named Lori. gift who she's been in the nonprofit. space for years and years she's amazing. she's an amazing speaker just awesome. and she she's everywhere she travels. constantly meeting different people. families victims she's been to all these. ribbon cutting ceremonies she's like the. best representation of the foundation uh. and I mean it's a huge part of who we. are I mean we we basically just push. money to these people that's what we. do man that's incredible that's.

incredible yeah so we do that and then. so ball in studios we have our. management business so we have a couple. other creators that so we have Nick. Crowley we have Ryan nexo who are big. YouTubers uh we have bedtime stories. who's actually my favorite YouTube. channel it's a UK Channel they're unreal. uh we're representing them we have. wartime stories as well which is kind of. like not a spin-off of bedtime stories. but it's about war and history it's. really good um we're looking at some. other people as well to bring under. management but I mean our thinking is. Ballin Studios we want it to be the home.

of the best storytellers in the world. and not we we want them we want the best. storytellers in the world to want to. Aspire to go to ball and Studios the. same way if you're an amateur baseball. player you don't aspire to be like some. random independent baseball player you. aspire to play for the Red Sox or you. know you know what I mean like that's. what you want to do we want to show so. much legitimacy in build up so much. premium content and be everywhere. platforms Live Events traditional. digital that it's like no contest that. ball and Studios that's where the best.

storytellers are and that's where they. want to be and everything they do is. premium and it's all premium. storytelling and so far we've attracted. some incredible people and you know what. we're going to hopefully continue that. Trend that's amazing that's what what. aspect do you like the most do you like. the Live Events do you like YouTube do. you like giving back to the victims I. mean what is what really what do you. like what do you get the most enjoyment. out. of um I have this Mantra that I really.

push hard on my kids that I think is a. good one and it's helped me out a couple. times in my life and it's this do things. that scare you you know it's not. something I came up with but I have it. was actually it was a clip from Will. Smith that made me think this he uh so. Will Smith the famous actor who famously. slapped Chris Rock uh he uh he went. skydiving and he filmed himself. skydiving this is years ago and he tells. this amazing story of his skydiving. experience he's an incredible. Storyteller himself and he tells this.

story that's really funny and it's. basically him being terrified of going. skydiving like the day comes and his. buddy wants to go and he doesn't and. he's like kind of giving his buddy a. hard time like we should cancel but. finally they go up in the plane and he's. strapped to his instructor and will is. doing a great job just highlighting how. nervous he was and how horrible this was. and how he didn't want to do it and then. finally his instructor like all right. they go to the door the door opens it's. time to go and he's like we're going to. go on three okay and Will's like all. right and he's like one and he just. jumps you know whatever it is just. immediately goes out the door and uh.

will was like immediately all my fears. were gone and it was like the most. incredible experience sailing through. the air for the first time I me you. Skydive it's it's incredible and uh and. so he lands and his is what he ends up. saying it's it's very poignant he's like. you know I discovered on that day that. the best things in life are on the other. side of fear he's like if you're scared. of something that means you probably. want to do it and it's worth your time. it's the things that you're indifferent. to that you don't want to do fear is a. signal that it's something worth your. time and so I have found that when I.

find myself feeling in terrified of a. particular thing for me it's been like. live speaking it's terrified me I've. always been scared of it and it's made. me realize that I probably need to do it. at some point like true on a stage live. performance I don't know what it is I've. just always had this fear of doing that. um and in order to live up to what my. kids what I tell them to do I made a. point as soon as you know Nick and I. built up ball in studios that I was like. I I have to do live stuff because I'm.

terrified of it and I I think I'd be. good at it but I'm horrified to do it. but I got to do it because that's the. thing that that scares me the most and. um it it was so dude I have you done a. live performance yet I have not not not. like a not an interview I've thought. about it but I've done some I was also. it's one of my biggest fears yeah and uh. it still is I I feel great afterwards. yeah I've done two or three of them and.

uh and uh I did I did enjoy it I did not. enjoy the stress up to it but it's it's. like that's just it is the leadup is. awful but during and after it's hard to. beat that that that Rush of of having. done that um and I think that's true of. like just about anything you're scared. to do that there is going to be like a. rush when you do it but for me I would. say that I don't necessarily enjoy the. live stuff the most but it's the most. impactful in a positive way on my life.

because I feel like it's an opportunity. to reinforce to my kids who are very. aware of my stage fright if you will but. dad's still doing it dad's still going. up on stage doing it he's still doing. the thing that he's scared to do and if. that's the only thing that I passed down. to my kids I think that's pretty good. you know Dad can do what I can do it and. so that's why I think that live stuff is. is my that's the best thing I do that's. perfect I was going to ask for a piece. of advice but I think that that pretty. much covers it do things that scare you. man but um you know couple more.

questions we'll wrap it up here but your. parents you know you you you loved. proving your dad wrong with the sealed. teams and um you know both very renowned. journalists yeah what do they think. about what you're doing so it's funny. after all that my sis my older sister my. mother and my father all work for ball. in. studios yeah and it's not like some. token thing either I mean my my family. are world-renowned journalists and.

writers and so my sister Evan is the. head of the writer room she writes the. YouTube channels at at this point she's. gosh she's in charge of so many things. at the studio and she's unreal so Evan. Allen is like a killer she's done. awesome uh my dad he just came over as. well uh he's like in charge of our. collaboration with Amazon where we have. uh the medical Mysteries co-production I. mean he's he's running that show and. he's doing some writing as well uh and.

then my mom so Jesse thuma uh my mom she. came on actually she was helping me. write posts when I was doing Navy SEAL. stuff and so she was really in the. trenches with me when you know it. started going really really bad and and. she actually felt really bad like as if. somehow she had somehow inspired this. hate or something but uh so she was. really aware of how much that hurt me. and all that and so when I began doing. this new thing this whole Mr Ballin. thing and I was beginning to think about. doing a podcast so YouTube at this point. is built and you know it's pretty big.

it's sizeable we're doing well but I we. we Nick and I were thinking about a. podcast and we needed there's just no. way you can research and write a 7000w. podcast every single week in addition to. running a YouTube channel that puts out. multiple pieces a week and all these. different things and so it was kind of. like well I can write several of the. episodes but we need somebody else to do. it like I can't do we will not have a. podcast we'll have to give up YouTube or. podcast and so my mom just began writing. the podcast in the early days of the. show and it was a grind I mean and she.

was getting paid nothing this is not. like a job this is I'm helping my son. out and she crushed just wrote script. after script after script I mean that. podcast the only reason we able to keep. doing it is because we had her in place. and so when the uh when you know the the. deal came through with Amazon when they. wanted to license the podcast it was. like the coolest moment to feel like no. one really knows it but it's my mom and. me and Nick and like a handful of other. people like my editor Jeremy who's.

awesome there's more people I'm I'm. probably forgetting them but it's like. this little team of just people who. wanted to help and my mom was like the. biggest help and and we got the deal and. then she shifted to actual full-time. like paid compensated very well for her. time uh but yeah they all are part of. all in studios and so the only one. that's not is my younger sister but. she's like Beyond brilliant you know. she's literally defending her her. dissertation uh on April 15th uh for her. PhD and something or other she's a she's. a a honeybee specialist uh and her doc.

her husband's a doctor and he like. they're brilliant they're just they're. not going to join ball in studios. they're going to go be Brainiac. somewhere else but yeah no they're. they're all working for the for the. company wow that is that is really cool. man it's weird yeah it's weird well uh. wow you know just we're going to wrap it. up here John but I just want to say you. know thank you for coming down yeah and. um I mean just your whole story is just. super inspiring from from getting into.

Special Operations your transition out. overcoming the injuries the nightmares. the sleep. walking the hate you know from the. community that that anybody who gets out. and tries to build a business. understands what that feels like and um. and from I mean just for everybody who's. got an entrepreneurial mind I mean the. the most respected entrepreneurs in the. world started from nothing and you.

started from. nothing and you built an Empire and uh. it's inspiring to me and everybody out. there who who has aspirations to start a. business so well thank you man and you. build here is unreal I mean to your. point when you said you checked on me. and then two years later you saw I was. at 2 million Subs I had a very similar. experience with your podcast like I was. definitely aware of the Sha Ryan Show. because I watched it on YouTube but then. you know we kind of went into our own. like got to make content 247 and we.

blacked out everything else and then. when our podcast began spiking to the. top of the the charts I was like dude. Sean show is like top 10 always like it. was always and then that's that's not. easy to do you can you can Spike once or. twice but I always saw I was like oh. have Sean Ryan's in the top 10 and then. I saw the other day you're like number. four right now and it's dude it's I'm. telling you like you have something. special with this show because not many. people are prepared to sit and listen to. Long interviews but with your show it's. the opposite that's what they want and. that's not common and it sets you apart.

from everybody else doing long form. interviews cuz people don't stick around. for that stuff and something you're. doing is working well I really. appreciate that man but um well I wish. you the best of luck and continue. success thanks dude thank you right. [Music]. on no matter where you're watching Shan. Ryan Show from if you get anything out.

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