Michael Shellenberger - Elon Musk, Twitter Files, and Media Collapse | SRS #87

previously on the Sha Ryan show you got. to clean up these institutions you got. to remove the narcissists and the. Psychopaths who run them got to remove. the narcissists and Psychopaths from. political office CU they only serve. themselves and they're they're they're. weaponizing these. institutions so for me that's the right. path forward and you need it at every. level of our society federal state and. local and you need it in the culture. that's why I mean it's it's why I love. talking to you and love seeing the stuff.

that you're doing is to. rehumanize the people that are doing the. hard work the people that are protecting. our country you know people that are. serving in our military serving as. police officers working at the power. plants working at the feed Lots you know. doing the Lord's work and not getting. the respect that they deserve from the. [Music]. society I think that you know we we. we're batting around right and left. stuff I I think that.

I think the party lines are just. becoming very blurred and and. it's anybody who who actually takes a. moment to think about how things are. panning out I mean. it's it's it's starting to look like one. big team to me one big uni party yeah. and um and in in. in the the major question I have is we. we see extremism on the right we see.

extremism on the left we don't see we. don't see a lot of middle of the rotors. now I think that the middle the rotors. you know the the the moderates on both. sides are I just don't feel like it's. being covered you know I I what do you. think are we are. the are the moderates still the majority. or is the majority of the left extreme. left is the majority of the right. extreme right because that's all we're. being fed yeah I mean I think that the.

the. moderates um have disappeared I mean the. the original moderates and it's in part. because they were overtaken by reality. MH you know the the moderates among. Republicans got us into a really bad War. mhm you know the so-called moderates on. the left. enabled. addiction you know they I mean remember. Biden who was always considered a.

moderate Democrat has done more to. weaponize the federal government than. any president I can remember I mean. people look back at Nixon and they go he. was really corrupt he weaponized federal. government I mean the stuff that we see. Biden doing the stuff with the FBI. whistleblowers you know the stuff with. covering up of the Biden influence. pedaling scheme with his son and uh you. know the the media which supposedly is. the mainstream moderate news media. behaves in absolutely horrendous ways. basically participating in.

disinformation campaigns I mean just to. hesit just to pause on that for a minute. you know we've seen con we've seen very. scary disinformation efforts by the. federal government with the work of the. media paid for by major. corporations they basically lied about. the origins of covid they said there was. no way it could have come from a lab. even though there had been thousands of. lab leaks up until then and there had. been a huge debate about whether or not. to even do Corona virus research in a.

lab because of the concerns about it. spilling over they came out right after. you know early 2020s that there's no way. it was a lab leak that was a lie we know. it was a lie our sources tell us that it. was from the Wuhan lab and yet you had. Anthony fouchi you had the you know top. people saying oh it's a conspiracy. theory they said that the vaccine would. prevent infection and transmission did. neither thing now I think for elderly. people and vulnerable people it did. prevent Hospital ization I took the.

vaccine myself I'm in favor of it but. the amount of lying about the vaccine is. really quite incredible Hunter Biden. laptop it was it was always obvious that. it was what it appeared to be and yet. you had all these former CIA directors. and others come out and say it had all. the Hallmarks of a Russian information. operation spreading disinformation. demanding censorship of their. opponents we see the White House. demanding censorship by Facebook and. Twitter um the ENT enire time that my.

colleagues and I have been exposing the. censorship that we've discovered that. occurred at Twitter before Elon Moss. took over and that occurred at Facebook. since really particularly since Biden. took office but before then the. mainstream news media for the last year. has been saying that we were conspiracy. theorists there was no censorship going. on it was just content moderation and. there should be more of. it that's all now been exposed I mean we. have the Supreme Court just announced. last week that it's going to here as a.

First Amendment challenge Missouri. versus Biden a lawsuit by the Attorneys. General of Missouri and and uh Louisiana. against the bi Administration for its. demands for. censorship everybody knows that if you. get the covid vaccine you could still. get Co still be. transmissible we've seen you know we. broke the story of the first people uh. according to our sources to get Co that. worked in the lab in China Wall Street. Journal came out a couple weeks later. came to the same conclusions.

we you know we see with the FBI. whistleblowers and and we obviously seen. with some of the UFO stuff where we have. for decades the government saying that. they're they're not studying it they're. not covering anything up and we know. that they've been covering up a lot and. still are covering up a lot so I worry. because when people say that it's a. problem to have all this distrust of the. government I agree with them but the. solution is not for us to just start. blindly trusting the government the the. solution is to have more.

transparency is to have some. accountability you know like why can't. we get the JFK files why can't we get. the UFO files why can't she tell us the. truth about covid Origins why can't you. tell us the truth about the. vaccine I I think you know there's. obviously powerful interests that have. an interest in maintaining these lies. but I also think it's just it's just. shortsighted and dumb and like stop. treating us like children you know that. you America was always special because.

we weren't we didn't come from Kings you. know in Europe it was always the Kings. who would gradually allow more freedom. of speech and then gradually allow more. rights for the accused in the United. States we started with free speech as. sacran and we started with innocent. until proven guilty and everybody is. equal before the law you know no matter. you know your color or your wealth or. whatever and obviously you know we had. to get over some terrible things.

including slavery and all this horrible. stuff but we got to a place where we had. Equal justice on the law we want to. protect that so I think that something's. got to break we're at a I think a. pivotal moment in in human history and. American history the distrust is at an. all-time high people don't trust the. media they don't trust the government. they don't trust our. institutions so we need to start seeing. some big changes before we can win that. trust back and then it's going to be a. long road because I think we all know. this experience where you can have a lot. of trust takes it takes a long time to.

build up trust but it doesn't take very. long to lose it yeah you know I'm. getting a little off topic here cuz I. want to stick with California but I want. to run with this you know I will I mean. California definitely seems to be. leading the way in dismantling itself um. country right behind. it but this isn't just a this isn't just. a this isn't just an American problem. this is a this is a.

world problem the entire world seems to. be just coming and glued at the hinges. no matter I mean it's it's everywhere. the woke stuff it's everywhere the the. the the government overreach it's. everywhere I mean we see UK is you know. going after Russell Brand trying to get. all of his money I. mean it's it's every corner of the. world seems to be going through. something what what do you think is at.

the root of all of. this that's the right question it's a. really powerful question you're. absolutely right I mean. clearly we're a single species of humans. you know and we're connected in a lot of. different ways you see it at different. points in in period in in history right. you see the 30s it's a period of major. change again in the kind of late 60s. early 7s clearly we're in that new phase. kind of every 50 years or so something's.

going. on our leaders are weak you know it's. very weak leaders we have a president of. the most powerful country in the world. who is barely there very much struggling. struggling to walk struggling to think. struggling. to struggling to uh speak um the head of. the opposition party the Republican. Party he L he literally freezes when he. speaks said to two two I'll call them.

Strokes they said they said they said it. wasn't but I'll call them Strokes Two. Strokes to two months on camera yeah. that's just on camera that's right. nobody's no nobody's counting how many. times this happens off camera we have. people dying in office Reading their. notes for them at Senate hearings yep we. I. mean Y what I mean boy is a symbol.

you. know a symbol of a civilization and. crisis you know leaders that should no. longer be leaders they're too old. they're too. unhealthy uh we look at Israel you know. we think that the solution is you know. he the the head of Israel the Prime. Minister thought the solution was to. support uh the more radical Palestinian. group Hamas as a way to divide the. Palestinians in the West Bank in Gaza.

that obviously failed he thought he. could control the Palestinians that way. we we look around the world and we see. weak leaders I'm not familiar with that. so. so. Netanyahu was doing was was was funding. Hamas that's right and and authorizing. the funding through Qatar of Hamas. supporting Hamas as a counterweight. against fata which was the the more. moderate party that controlled the.

Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Netanyahu is um you know he there's. other things he did I mean he moved the. security from Gaza to the West Bank that. should have been there they over relied. on this fence that turned out to be very. flimsy they could just take a little. bulldozzer through it so the. miscalculation on the part of Netanyahu. it's reminiscent of the of the of the. miscalculation uh by the neocon months. in the United States under Bush and.

Cheney so you see poor decision making. by leaders you. see delusions of being able to control. chaotic actors that they're simply not. able to. control we see borders that are porous. or open in the United States we see. borders in Europe where they they can't. control who comes in caught between. being cruel or allowing chaos so the.

system is is unraveling right now and. that's the most dangerous time it's the. period in. between regimes so we're clearly the. regime that you might call it the. neoliberal. era on the kind of left and Center left. or the neoconservative era on the right. and center right both are. failing we sent too much of our industry. to China we thought we could just have.

everybody else manufacture for us and. not manufacture. alone we you know failed to deal with. Med with um serious medical. problems uh mental illness addiction we. allowed our children to consume toxic. amounts of social media and develop. psychiatric disorders including anxiety. and. depression we see all this weird. behaviors where people think that they. can change their biological. sex there's never there's no debate that.

there's two biological Sexes among. scientists it's like gravity it's. uncontroversial somehow people got in. their minds that they could change it. through drugs and and. surgeries so you see a set of disorders. in the society and it's it's in part. because we're not. oriented in any way and I think part of. it has to do with a spiritual crisis. that comes out of the belief that we're. all alone that nothing else is going on.

that the scientists have figured out. precisely what it's all about that it. all started with a big bang and there. was Evolution and that we're all alone. in the universe and everybody knows that. and then when you die nothing lives on. and you have no. soul it's obviously. wrong like like it it doesn't make any. sense it's not working out very good and. and then the consequences are awful of. this you know as opposed to I mean. what's interesting for me about the UAP. thing everybody.

worries you know the UAP thing is a new. religion or kind of a. cult may maybe but it's also a chance to. have some sense of wonder and some. mystery and excitement such an. interesting topic it's the reason why so. many people want to read you know listen. to your podcast on the topic or read the. articles that we do on it um it shows. that we don't really know what's going. on you know we can't explain a lot of.

phenomena in the world there's a lot of. anomalous phenomena that we can't. explain and that there are people that. are clearly telling the. truth who are if that that there's I'm. there are there is disinformation so I. don't want to say there's not there is. disinformation but it's not like the. disinformation that I've seen it's not. it's not you know when Anthony fouchy. says there's no way that the coron virus. came from lab or we know the vaccine.

will prevent infection and transmission. that's disinformation coming from the. heads of government on the UFO thing. mostly it's been disinformation in the. form of the government saying that we're. not looking at it there's nothing there. so we're seeing all these Things Fall. Apart you know a sense of trust in. science trust in the government I think. it's a really powerful moment. to kind of come come back to a kind of. core spiritual and existential moment. which is just that we're all human we're.

all in this incredibly. mysterious we have no idea how we got. here mhm we we we don't know what our. prehistory is these stories that people. tell they use chicken bones and wood to. make the pyramids. and all these complicated hieroglyphic. hieroglyph anybody that goes there sees. that we don't know what H was going on. and that should be a source of. excitement I think a sense of wonder and. of wanting to explore and to be less. dogmatic and less certain and more.

open-minded to the ways in which maybe. we got things wrong or the experts might. be wrong so I think in this really dark. moment there's also a chance to allow. for some new light to come in you know. it's the cracks that allow the light to. come through and we're starting to get. little beams of light we can't tell. exactly what it all means but. something's going. on hey everybody I want to talk to you. about two products from first form one. is opag greens 50 the other's opar Red's.

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make the switch and you'll save an. additional 50% off your first month. that's Pur talk.com ran to start savings. on wireless. now what do you think about how long. have you been following this UFO. stuff about 40 years 40 years what we we. discussed a little bit about this. earlier but what is your I mean what are. you finding now like for me and I get a. a ton of hate for for covering this.

topic but I don't care what anybody says. there's something there is something to. this and um yeah and uh I don't care. about the hate it but um what I found is. there seems to be it's a very. clickish topic and there seems to be a. couple of different camps and everybody. in each Camp seems to think they know. everything about the they're the.

resident expert they know everything. everybody else they don't. know they don't know they're full of. they're full of crap yeah you know and. and and then you go talk to that person. and it's the exact same thing I know it. all and just talk to me and and I'll be. the one that comes on your podcast to. talk about it and don't listen to these. guys they're all disinformation agents. and right and and it's it's. it's almost all of them the the only one.

that I. have spoken with that is not in any. particular Camp uh is Brandon fugle uh. the owner of Skinwalker Ranch um he. seems to be he wants to hear everybody. yeah but um and I I I it just seems to. be a topic to that everybody would want. to come together and share information I. mean we're all living on one planet here. yes you know uh I think we all.

have we're all concerned you know about. what is going on but nobody's sharing. what what what have you dug up well yeah. and Sean I should say I mean that's why. I was that's why I was excited to make. contact with you finally and come on the. show because I think you're bringing um. uh a real Humanity to the topic and to. the to the folks that have had. experiences that I don't think are lying. I think it's very hard for people to.

most people are not very good actors you. most actors aren't very good actors and. so when you see people share these. stories it's clear that they believe. what they're saying and that doesn't. mean that it happened exactly like they. think it did or that it. wasn't some sort of you know. psychological or some psychogenic part. of it or that the US government or some. other government isn't using some new. technology to create experiences in some. way I think these are all possibilities. and there's been various forms of.

disinformation as well but I think that. the spirit that you're talking about is. very important right now and it's a this. it's a humanizing spirit because I think. it's wrong to to tell to dismiss. people's experiences I think it's the. right approach is to hear them out. there's definitely some of the grabbin. and the and the snobbery in the space. that I've seen in other spaces the sort. of oh I know the the truth I don't think. anybody knows like I I don't think that.

the Big Bang explains I don't think it. really explains much of anything if you. want to get down to it I don't think we. know everything about our prehistory or. the ancient history or even our. Evolution I think there's a lot of. mysteries every time you have an answer. to something there's always another. question of well what became what came. before that or why did that happen so. I've tried in my writing I've done uh. I've done four big pieces on the topic I. did three pieces this year. uh I really enjoyed the experience of.

working on all of. them and my last one I I wrote about how. um you know around three dozen or so 30. or more uh people have come forward and. given. testimony um either to. the um the dod Department called Arrow. or to the inspector generals of the dod. um or to the Inspector General of the. intelligence community. so this is not a it's not just one guy.

David grush who's telling stories. there's actually a lot of other people. that have been giving testimony I feel. very confident in. that and in that piece I made sure to. interview and quote the some of the most. uh famous Skeptics you know one of whom. is Mick West and it's not somebody that. UFO Believers tend to appreciate very. much but when I spoke to him I said you. know if you don't think there's anything. there it seems like you would be one of.

the first person to want the government. to share what it does know and to have. disclosure and he said absolutely and if. there's more people sharing the. information then there's a higher chance. that it's true thought that was very big. of him to say so what I was trying to do. in that piece because of course as an. outsider to this issue you come in even. though I follow for a long time I've not. written on it not had the courage to. write on until recently when you come to. it you kind of go well I mean let me see. if I have this straight it seems like. basically everybody wants the government. to share what it knows because it's not.

the property of the US government it's. not the property of lock heed Martin or. of Aerospace. Corporation if there's information about. what's going on with all these anomalous. phenomena then we the people have a. right to know it I mean this is uh this. is why America is the greatest. country that's ever existed in the. entire world it's because we control our. government we don't we're not controlled. by our government this isn't a kingdom. we don't have the people people in power. are not just the strongest and most able.

to dominate it's a will of the people. and so we would like to know what you've. discovered and you know pretty soon I'll. be coming out with some more information. about some of the retrieved you know. craft that people believe to be from. nonhuman intelligences is it from. non-humans I don't know but we should. all have a chance to look at it and I. respect the need for the US military to. do experiments you know and develop next. generation stealthcraft or.

propulsion um you know at the same time. I think if there's some evidence that. there's non-human life in the world or. in the universe that's the right of the. people to know that and we should be. able to know it at the same time if. there is if there's been an effort if. it's just a disinformation campaign. using highly sophisticated technologies. that appear to violate the the known. laws of physics then we should not be. victims of a government disinformation. campaign we should be able to know about. that too so I try broadly in this issue.

I try to think in probabilities which is. probably the right way to think about. all issues but I feel the need to do it. on this one more than anything there's. some chance that the conventional story. that we hear about UFOs is true that. there's been a cover up since World War. II has something to do with. nuclear there's some sort of reverse. engineering and maybe contact has been. made that's kind of maybe that's true. maybe it's all a disinformation campaign. plus uh social contagion or Folk LC. contagion and maybe it's a secret you.

know and relatedly some sort of secret. weapons programs or whatnot and then. maybe it's unknown. unknowns um but you know whatever it is. it's a reminder of our mortality and of. our common humanity and of the. importance of having democracy and of. having free speech and not allowing a. small group of people to control. information and have secrecy and so you. know I'm I'm uh I would just accept. invitation. from organization called muon which is a.

big organization of UFO investigators to. give a keynote next July at their annual. convention and I'm also speaking to a. group of UFO Skeptics in December and I. hope to I hope to continue to talk to. both sides because it seems like we all. have a greater interest in knowing what. the government knows rather than having. it kept secret from us when when is the. you had mentioned you have some piece. coming out about the non-human biologics. and crash retrievals when is that coming. out well I did it's I'm doing a story.

about a particular case which I don't. want to say too much about but I did do. an earlier story about with multiple. Witnesses or sorry multiple sources I. should say and because on the UFO store. like usually as a journalist you want to. have at least two sources for every fact. um on UFOs I our standard is three or. more because it's so out there MH but uh. no we had uh we had multiple sources and. that well placed in a position to know.

that says that the US government. has really between 12 and 30 or so. retrieved craft of. non-humans I did not report non-human. biologics but David gush's Congressional. testimony did report that I have also. heard that I have not reported it I was. happy to let someone else say that but. yes that is coming up in the reports I. wrote about a crash in. Brazil that occurred in the 90s it's a. pretty well-studied crash where there. was multiple witnesses that say they saw.

non-human. entity including uh you know alive and. dead and so um that is not easy to. dismiss particularly the character of. the witnesses and the fact they haven't. changed their story and they didn't say. what they said for money in fact there. they they claimed to have been have. turned down money to changeed their. story so there's just a lot more there. than I think most people realize and and. um and it's good for that it be a source.

of Fascination because it's super. interesting and important if humans are. indeed you know we we know that we don't. revolve around the sun you know and we. know the Earth is not flat and it may. turn out that we're not alone in the. universe and if that's the case then. it'd be really fun to find out while. we're all still alive are these Skeptics. you had mentioned a skeptic who was uh. what was the gentleman's name Mick West. is I think does mcwest a Christian do. you know have any idea I think I don't. know I don't think so okay but I suspect. not I I find the UFO Skeptics to also be.

uh. atheists as a rule I have a friend I. won't say his name who was very mad at. me I had many just like you I had many. people uh that were very upset with my. first article and begging me not to do. this or talk about it and and you know. it's interesting because it's a little. bit like you know like why are you why. do you feel so strongly about it like. what what's so upsetting about. is it really that I'm talking about.

because certainly there's a lot of. people that talk about it and one of the. things that you and I experienced us say. what happened we both know that ordinary. folks in the world have had these. experiences this is not a small group of. people like you can find people that. have experiences but I haven't been. comfortable sharing them with you so but. you know like like I'm a Christian and I. also write about UFOs I don't know how. they fit together they may not maybe. I'll learn something that will make me. question my Christianity I don't know my.

my but why be so upset about it why be. so emotionally intense about it where I. was going with this is is you know if. you are a Christian do you really think. that we are the best creation that that. that that God could make I mean come on. look at what's look at us right we're a. disaster you know and um so it's it's. interesting that all the Skeptics are. seem to be atheists that takes a lot of. faith to be an atheist I actually had I.

should say I have also some a Christian. some Christian friends that are. absolutely horrified by this and they. think it's it's either doesn't it's not. it's either not real or it's. demonic um I think another thing I've. been interested in is the way that uh is. the way that that we think about Free. Will in the context of this so in the. Christian Story free will is part of how. you deal with the the fact that there's. evil in the world and yet we believe in.

a god that is a sensibly all powerful. and all good how can you have a God. that's all powerful and all good and. love evil in the world one of the. answers that's been given is that we. have free will and so there's something. on us to choose a better world and so. we're sort of. realizing God's will through our actions. and behavior but we're doing it freely. we're not just God's puppets we're not. just we're not because that would make. it really easy then there would just. then we're not responsible if we're just. being manipulated by somebody else that.

same sort of debate shows up on the UFO. thing which. is that you know if there are non-humans. how come they're not helping us you know. like why are they allow you know if. there's non humans why are they letting. us kill each other why are they. allowing you know all these bad things. and there's sort of a similar story that. emerges at least in the conventional. story from people that follow this which. is that there's free will and and that. we're actually and. that what do you believe about free will.

this is interesting I literally just had. this discussion last night wow and uh so. it was the last discussion of the night. but um I'm I'm interested to hear your. thoughts on this and I'll share mine you. know I'd love to I mean free wills it's. one of the most important conversations. in philosophy it might be the most. important question because you can tell. a story where we don't have Free Will. and the story kind of goes hey you don't. you didn't choose your genetics you.

didn't choose your body you didn't. choose your parents you didn't choose. the time and place in which you were. born so what to what extent can you say. that you choose anything everything was. chosen for. you and the problem with that story. saying decide whether the truth of it. just say said the story the problem with. that story when you deny free will or. you're actually taking away someone's. responsibility I've been obsessed with.

this guy Sam bankman freed who is the. cryptocurrency king he's in court and. trial right now for fraud and kind of a. pyramid scheme similar to Bernie maid. off his his mother did not believe in. Free Will and had sort of the same story. that I'm describing which is something. that I mean it's been on the right and. the left and mostly on the I mean the. left recently has been sort of saying it. around criminal justice like you didn't. choose your time and place or your.

circumstances you're a victim of your. circumstances you don't have free will. Free Will is just something that people. talk about in order to punish and to. give you a sense of control that's the. story that Sam bankman Freed's mother. gave him and then his father had the. story of utilitarianism which is that. you should use your brain to figure out. um maximum good for maximum number of. people the result is you have somebody. that doesn't take. responsibility so so one possibility is. that the belief in Free Will is actually.

what really matters because if you. believe in free will then you're more. likely to take responsibility for your. actions you're less likely to engage in. the kind of antisocial behaviors that. are so destructive of society and of. yourself so maybe Free Will is a myth. but it's a good myth to have because if. you don't have that myth then people are. going to do all sorts of horrible things. I think that's kind of where I come out. with it which is that you have free will.

if you believe you have free will If you. deny that you have free will then to. some extent you're deciding not to take. responsibility I think that you're a I. think I think if you if you if someone. were to tell me that that they don't. have free will and they're not. responsible for them their actions I. would be very careful around them I. would not trust them be more likely to. trust somebody who takes responsibility. who says yes I didn't choose my my body. or my brain or my parents or my. circumstances but I have Consciousness.

I'm aware that I make my own choices I'm. going to slow down I'm going to think. about things I'm going to think about. what's good for not just myself but for. other people so I think where I land is. that and I do have a little discussion. of it in here too uh maybe Free Will is. a myth but it's a good myth to have and. we should affirm it I think we had this. discussion last night as I mentioned and. I as a Christian you know it's it is. it's like the it's the one question that.

nobody seems to have an answer to and. and I'm new at the Christianity stuff so. I'm diving in and uh but what you. know what I think is you know everybody. talks about you know surrender to Jesus. surrender yourself to God or and so I. think that you have the free will to. choose which side you're going to be on. you're going to be. on God Jesus the Holy Spirit side and.

you're going to surrender you know you. have the free will to surrender to that. or you have the free will to surrender. to the other side to Satanism devil. worshiping whatever you want to call it. and but you're going to serve one or the. other there is no there is no in between. and so I I think that maybe that is the. that is the Free Will what do you think.

about that that's that's basically where. I land I think it's important to affirm. Free Will Victor Frankle who's this. amazing psychologist who was a holocaust. Survivor and he wrote man search for. meaning a book after he survived the. death. camps and he was somebody who while he. was in the death camp said I'm going to. take control of my experience because. mentality is. everything that it's not the meaning of.

something is determined by my own view. of it and I'm going to I'm going to turn. this horrible. experience into a chance to become a. stronger better person rather than. allowing this experience to make me a. worse. person we I've been talking with my. colleagues about Israel and about the. Hamas attacks and and it the Hamas. attacks happen. and the Israeli bombardment of Gaza is. happening so the question is what do you.

do now it's there's nothing I I think. it's dangerous to suggest that it. doesn't matter what we do it matters. incredibly what we do so Frankle has. this great saying which is. um in between stimulus and response is. Free Will H you know and we're. not you know we're not uh like other. animals You Know That We're Not Just. Knee work we have we're able to think. slowly not just quickly you know I was.

interviewing people in Ireland about. Free Speech issues because they have. this terrible censorship law they're. proposing they're debating and I people. on the street and I would if I if IID. kind of like you know should we censor. hate speech oh yeah we should definitely. you know absolutely then I'd be like. well what would that you know what is. hate speech you know what would count is. hate speech what kind of things and I. would say because they're Irish so I'd. be like do you think James Joyce and. Oscar wild ever wrote anything that. might be considered today to be hate.

speech you know people go oh yeah I. probably you know and I I I came away. from and I was like I don't think you. can go around Ireland and be like that. person's you know for free speech that. person's against it I don't think that. PE I don't think anybody's like that I. think it's more like you can you can be. free speech and you can also be Pro. censorship and the main difference is. whether thinking about it quickly or. whether you're slowing down because Free.

Speech actually turns out to be a really. hard thing for people you know we saw it. here on the Hamas and the Palestinian. stuff you know somebody gets up there. and and chants death to Israel and it's. offensive you know or somebody says they. support Hamas and they support terrorism. it's so horrible there's a fair number. of people that think that that should be. illegal but when you kind of go so if we. make that illegal what else do you think. might be illegal people slow down about. it they you know this is this is I'm.

borrowing this from this guy Daniel. Conan this uh uh uh it was I think he. was. psychologist we're very different people. when we when we think slowly and we. think quickly that's why I love this. that's why I love this format you know. like I'll go on Fox news or I'll go on. news Nation or somewhere and I'm like I. got to it's a test you got to be what. can you say in 30 seconds but that's a. different kind of thinking and the. people that are watching this are I. think their brains are working.

differently than when they're watching. something quickly and I think that when. you slow down it allows for the humanity. to reemerge I think It ultimately makes. us more in favor of free speech more in. favor of universal values because I. always point out if it's just if you. just want the right for your group to. speak or if you just want your civilians. to be protected That's Not Human Rights. those are just group rights for your. group human rights means that you think. that there's rights that all humans.

should have even humans that you might. really hate at the moment and so for so. for me that's where I come out with the. Free Will thing is Free Will is real. when we affirm that it's real and then. when we slow down enough to really take. advantage of it interesting speaking of. sensorship I mean I know you were you're. on the Forefront of the Twitter files. and um and um so I was where do you kind. of stand on censorship and I mean it.

seems like Elon Musk is is Free Speech. all the way anything goes am I correct. on that on on on. X yeah so um to answer that question we. have to go back a little bit in time I. mean so first of all I never thought. about First Amendment issues which may. seem surprising but I never I just. assumed it was fine right like we have a. first amend of the Constitution like. like nobody wants censorship like I've. never heard anybody Advocate.

censorship and then um well actually I. then got my book apocalypse never came. out in 2020 and Facebook censored me and. they've maintained some sort of. algorithm so that when you so when I. show up on YouTube like which is owned. by Google so I'm censored actually by. Google I should say and Facebook so when. something comes up to me like I'll be. talking about drug addiction on YouTube. and there'll be like a little warning. about being like here get ACC accurate. information on climate change because. there's some algorithm that's has me as.

a climate change denier or you know some. whatever it is and there's no I've tried. to appeal it there's no way to appeal. It's Like a Star Chamber it's all. completely unjust unfair and I I was. very upset at the time I think people. don't realize like when you're censored. it feels so bad like you're so um Angry. it feels really unfair. fair and uh just just I mean almost like.

a kind of self-destructive anger I felt. and then that kind of went asleep for a. while I just kind of moved on and I was. like I can't do anything about it so. move on and then we were invited to do. the Twitter files in December last year. and I've been working on censorship. issues ever since and yeah I mean I was. just shocked to learn there just a huge. number of people you know they're. they're Elites it's not the people that. bag your groceries or you know work at. the gas station or work at the factory. floor or who it's not cops and nurses. it's people that work at universities.

they work at think tanks they work at. news companies and they want the social. media companies to censor speech that. they don't like legal permitted. speech and it's. shocking um we owe Elon Musk a debt of. gratitude because we wouldn't have known. about how much censorship there was if. he had not opened up their files to us. he gave us pretty open access to the. files uh we were never denied any files. we uncovered a lot of censorship you.

know a lot on different things we also. discovered these disinformation. campaigns the disinformation campaigns. around Hunter Biden's laptop around Co. and it's not just Twitter it was also. Facebook so then you get to the question. of what is elon's position you know. first he would say I'm a free speech. absolutist you know the US which is the. freest country in the world even we're. not free speech absolutists we don't. allow immediate incitement to violence. you know I can't get a bunch of friends.

and say hey let's all go kill that. person I can't threaten to kill somebody. that's illegal I can't commit fraud I. can't use my words to lie to you to. commit fraud to steal your. money and I'm also not allowed to engage. in liable and defamation although those. is a very high bar um you're allowed to. say terrible things about other people. in the United States is very much. protected so very limit very very small. limit so nobody's technically a free. speech. absolutist um but I'm with him in spirit.

which is that I think we should have. very strong protections for free speech. much stronger than they have in Europe. Elon has also said that he wants to. follow the local laws of different. countries that's been controversial. because other countries engage in a lot. more censorship and so if you want X. formerly Twitter to operate in Turkey. for example he has to accept some amount. of censorship that's a case I know cuz I. wrote on it and researched it he was. Elon was criticized for allowing the.

Turkish government to demand that. certain people be taken off the platform. he did that he complied with the law I. and others encouraged him to release the. to just be transparent about it you know. if you have to do censorship it's better. to be transparent because like in the. case I was describing with YouTube and. Facebook I don't even know the ways in. which I'm being censored you know and so. it's a little crazy making you kind of. don't know like you can become paranoid. so at least you're transparent about. here's the censorship that we've done. mostly I think he's done a good job on.

it um I'm sure I think there's you know. some cases that are on the line but much. better than Mark Zuckerberg at Facebook. had done and others but I think the. short long of it is that there's really. like a shocking number of people in the. United States of America today that want. to see more censorship they justify it. in all sorts of ways they say they're. protecting people from harm. that's kind of what everybody. says um but I don't really know if I I.

mean psychological harm you know people. say terrible I mean I mean you're a. public figure and we're public figures I. mean people say awful things people have. wished me death and all sorts of. terrible things I think they should have. the right to do that I don't think they. should have the right to organize a mob. to come to my house and threaten to kill. me that's where I draw the line but. pretty much beyond that I think there. should be freedom and I mean and the. crazy thing about is that we actually. have to speak up for it because I think. there's so many people that that that.

that really don't believe in free speech. yeah you know it's it's it's it's. getting to be a tricky topic I think I. mean I'm I am. definitely Pro First Amendment Pro. freedom of. speech man though there's um I mean so. we're both what somewhat in the in the. in the truth space. right yeah that's what you want to call. it there a lot of weirdos in the truth.

space is what I'm finding I've had a. couple show up here. um some of the interviews will never be. released um because I I I don't. necessarily know if it's factual and and. and and but kind of where I'm so what I. do here I I I mean a lot of people watch. this I mean we hit number two. the number two podcast in in in the.

world couple months back amazing. congratulations well with that comes a. lot of. responsibility and and what I don't want. to do is just bring everybody on and. just hey let's hear what everybody has. to say because everybody thinks that. just because I have somebody on that. this is this is 100% factual information. right you know and so the way I kind of. try to navigate it is is is whatever the. information that's being put out is that.

going to affect somebody's. decision-making process that could that. could that could affect their life in a. negative way and so let's bring up the. UFO whistleblowers got a ton of hate. about that lots of. hate whether those guys were telling the. truth or whether they were lying that's. not going to affect anybody's decision-. making process on the day to day it's. not going to affect medical decisions. it's not going to affect legal decisions. it's not going to affect financial.

decisions you know you can take that. information and what are you going to do. with it right you either believe them or. you don't or maybe you're just in there. for entertainment I don't know you know. what I mean but it's not going to affect. anybody when it when it comes to. something like like Financial situations. or or or medical stuff like covid I mean. with the with the vaccine I mean that's. you're playing with.

people's you're you're you're you're. playing with people's well-being. especially if you have a reputable. reputation like you or I mean I think I. have a pretty reputable reputation you. know and so what I would hate to do is. actually put out information that is INF. factual you know whether it goes along. with my agenda or my beliefs or not I. don't want to manipulate the population. into doing something that that could. potentially cause them harm you know on.

the dayto day in their in their lives. and. so you know it's it's. a it's a responsibility you know that I. wish a lot more people including the. mainstream media would take seriously. but you know and in their there when it. comes to freedom of speech I mean there. are a lot of people that are I mean. they're Master manipulators out there. there and and they're out there just to. build a following or just to get some.

notoriety and just for financial gain. whatever it may be you know and so it's. it gets it gets tricky y you know I. think it gets tricky what are I mean. well first of all it's great that you. take it so seriously that's a sign that. you deserve the status that you've. achieved with this podcast in the long. form um obviously I agree and it's a. really. um I can feel the weight of it you know.

even as you were talking I could feel it. you know the responsibility right. because what if you say something you. know um that's wrong and it results in. someone's you know harm to them or death. or whatnot and you know like even on the. UFO one you know which I think you're. right there's a way which I agree it's. kind of um it's not obvious how somebody. would be hurt by it but I always. emphasize like like what I know try to. emphasize what I know what I suspect to.

be true but can't prove and what I. really have no idea on um and you know. if you take the vaccines the covid. vaccine as an example there's danger on. both sides right clearly the I think the. evidence shows the vaccines you know. kept people out of hospital and and. likely prevented a significant number of. death. we also have some evidence coming back. of causing myocarditis you know heart.

long-term heart problems so that's there. too the solution in my view is coming. back to the thing we just talked about. slowing down and providing the. information for people on the vaccines. for example we saw people not really. providing the full picture and we also. saw government officials saying things. were safe even though they really didn't. have the science to show it it in part. because the sample sizes were too small. in part because not enough time had.

passed and it's complicated I mean uh. vaccine science is challenging difficult. science for Lay people to do you know I. um I hired with one of my colleagues. Alex guten who I think is one of the. best journalists in America right now on. covid vaccines you know she was. deplatformed from Twitter I think for. like 48 Hours it wasn't the worst for. literally repeating the information in a. fizer press release about its own.

science are you serious yes and and. that's not the only case of that we. would. see censorship of what they themselves. would acknowledge was accurate. information that they worried would. cause vaccine hesitancy I think it's is. an important example because I see this. on a lot of other. issues uh we would see the White House. demanding this of. Facebook um saying yes that's accurate.

information but we don't wanted to get. out there we want you to censor it. because it could lead to vaccine. hesitancy Facebook came back to the. White House and said our research shows. that if you censor this information and. you prevent the conversation it will. make people more vaccine hesitant. because they will be suspicious that. they're not getting the full picture and. the white house said do it anyway why. did the White House say do it anyway. well in part I'm not saying entirely but.

in part because the news media the. reporters were asking the White House. why this accurate information was being. allowed to be shared on Facebook and. social media and so I share that example. because it's even worse than you think. there's sort of there's some risk that. people that care about the truth will. get it wrong and that's just always. going to be there and we have to to do. our best you know we have to prepare as. you've prepared you have to you know do. a book with a lot of end notes and a lot.

of research I mean books are for me. they're a way of really slowing down. your thinking I mean I have 1,200. endnotes in each of my books a lot of. research being very careful with what I. say about and not misrepresenting my own. certainty about certain things but then. there's this whole other thing going on. where there's people that have a really. clear agenda which is to get everybody. to take the vaccine and they're gonna. just you know bulldoze the truth in. order to get that out there and it.

doesn't have to be that way I don't. think I think that we're capable some of. this is the thing the same thing I was. talking about in terms of the the. treating the public like children I. think people can handle the. complexity that like older Americans you. know people over 70 really are going to. benefit from getting the vaccine it's. really important you know and people. with with preexisting conditions and. what not but that kids probably don't. need it like I don't think.

that's that hard MH so you had the. cidian just become very. dogmatic and so I think that um yeah for. people like for us that are trying to. make sense of information and different. sources there's some there's some some. tools you can use you know I mentioned. one of them on the on the U on the on. the UAP. whistleblowers is having multiple. sources um you know doing your research.

you know providing the caveat asking the. hard questions you know pushing back. when it feels like somebody's. overgeneralizing or going too. far um but then I do think there's. definitely people in the society that. are engaging in you know influence. operations disinformation campaigns. aimed at advancing an agenda kind of. regardless of what the facts. are. those of you that have been around SRS. for a while know that we take mental. health very seriously here so seriously.

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off.

mhm do you think that the US government. has our best. interest Define US. government do you think. that mostly right now now my answer is. is no I mean I have very little. confidence in our leaders I mean I we.

can go through all the institutions you. know I don't I mean just look at the FDA. there's there's a there's a a. a. bipartisan I mean there's it's Food and. Drugs you know and look at all the. things that we you mean there's a now. the life expectancy for an American 76. years old are food is Canada I mean. they have a what they have like another. six-year life expectancy they whatever.

their version of FDA is is a lot more. meticulous than ours look at all the. in our food the hormones in in in. how did everything get approved right I. mean our toothpaste is poison our. deodorant's poison our shampoo's poison. our food is poison our cleaning products. are poison our. a lot of our medicines wound up being. poisoned I mean what what did they do.

why you know what is the point of the. FDA right you know I mean obviously it's. to make money I'm not really sure and I. haven't dug in that much on how. but there there's there's there is one. organization that's that's that's you. know pretty nonpolitical and and I think. that the majority of people would agree. if you look into it yeah this is we've. been lied. to yeah I mean I think in the case of.

the FDA uh we are seeing just too much. power from the pharmaceutical industry. just too much power I mean it's not it's. supposed to check the power of the. pharmaceutical industry I me the purpose. of the FDA is to make sure that the drug. industry is not able to just sell. whatever they want and misrepresent it. you know I point out that it was a huge. Victory to require the drug companies to. have to list the side effects of their. drugs you know when the guy starts. talking really fast on the TV shows and.

make you know you see it in the T in the. ads um you know if you're not going to. ban ads which I think might be the best. thing to do like I don't know why like. if it's a good drug then let your doctor. recommend it I don't know why they. adverti why they have to advertise it. directly at consumers that seems that. seems unwise to me but nonetheless that. is the system we have right now but it. took us a lot just to name the side. effects of those drugs that was a big. victory well when people started talking. about the side effects of the covid. vaccine on social media there was an.

effort to censor them that's how crazy. it got MH you know when you look at the. big advertisers of the big mainstream. news media a lot of it was fizer MH so. it's the Brokenness it's includes the. FDA it's not limited to the FDA I mean. even the stuff that they approve though. I mean everybody I mean I remember. growing up my parents you know just. supplements that I would take because I. want to get big when I'm 16 years old is. that FDA approved is that now I I don't.

even care because what what is so what. it's FDA approved how much did they pay. to get that approval right you know who. cares I me no we looked at it we we did. a piece on REM dise which was heavily. promoted as a as a treatment for covid. and it has uh very toxic effects we. can't quite believe that it ever got. approved uh I was I was actually shocked. by it and you know we had multiple. people working on it and you know went.

back and looked at the actual science of. it and I mean mainstream science raising. serious concerns around the impacts on. kidneys from Rim dise so I you know and. it appeared that it was both sort of the. influence of the of the pharmaceutical. companies it's also just the power of. these government agencies they get their. you know they kind of get their brains. oriented on a particular path. I think another thing is just um you. know we just probably rely too much on. the on the pharmaceutical medical model.

you know I mean we know when you look at. what the factors for human health you. know it's the stuff that we've known. forever you know it's a um you know you. know exercise which just I love always. an as an example because it's like. because everybody knows that exercise is. amazing both for your physical health. but also for your mental health I mean. for me. the mental health benefits of physical. exercise are as great as the physical. benefits eating right you know um you.

know people were promoted we promoted a. high carb diet that we now think is. quite toxic for people you know the. diets that our grandparents ate you know. my grandfather lived to. 101 and he ate animal fats and it was a. traditional Farm diet it was thin as a. rail we know that you know community so. sociality having a purpose in life a. reason to get up in the. morning believing in something more.

important than yourself whether it's God. or some other higher power it's just. civilization or in service of humanity. that these are things these are the. basics that we need and so kind of. constantly looking for some medicine to. make ourselves feel better I don't think. is the right mentality and that's. another thing I think that needs to. change if we're going to go through some. sort of a transformation as a. society what uh Switching gears here. with back to back to X I mean um I don't. know how close you are with Elon but.

what what can we expect X to turn into. it sounds like it's turning into the. everything app what does that mean I. mean it's a good question and you know. obviously I don't uh I don't work for x. and um um you know um and in fact I I do. have a subscribers there but X takes my. some of my subscriber money so if. anything X works for me I'm a content. provider on it and and so I mean I I I I. have you know I text with Elon and um.

and it's uh uh it's been an it's always. an interesting relationship with one of. the richest people in the world I guess. he is the richest person in the world. and controls this huge platform um I'm a. skeptic of Renewables and electric cars. and I've written about that and our. relationship has been okay despite that. um so he's kind of who he appears to be. I I think you know sometimes people. think who is he really and kind of is. what it looks like um he's a gen xer you. know I think he's uh very much oriented.

towards Freedom he's been you know I. think he's was a former liberal like me. uh leuge as we. say that's a term leuge a friend of mine. actually uh I don't know I didn't make. it up but somebody else made it up and. then as soon as I heard it I was like. that that really. describes we're all. refugees so um I mean look I think that. he's an in the middle of a of a they're. in the middle of a information and. economic War right now I mean it's it's.

I mean you see it on the platform I mean. he's having um they're competing you. know so he's competing with the the big. newspapers over for. advertisers and so it's this there's an. economic incentives behind the war. that's going on. between X and the New York Times. Washington Post other Publications now. the New York Times is very profitable. very successful company The Washington. Post lost will lose a $100 million this.

year um both Facebook and X are sending. fewer people from their platforms to the. news media Outlets if I have the numbers. correctly I want to say it was something. like 180 million people were being. referred every month from each or 100. million referrals each month uh back in. uh early 2021 and I think today it's.

down to something like 40 or 45 oh wow. so there's been a huge Decline and the. decline is due to different reasons in. the case of Facebook Mark Zuckerberg. restricted news content from being. shared on the platform just because he. was under so much political pressure. mostly from the left but a little bit. from both sides I think he just said hey. forget it I'm just going to we're just. not going to do as much news we're going. to double down on weddings and you know. sharing photos of your grandkids and and. the and the VR stuff that he's doing in.

the case of Twitter was also going. down I think just as a function of more. people staying on X rather than clicking. through to the news articles and Elon. has clearly wanted to encourage that so. there was sort of a famous moment where. you know Elon got into sort of a public. spat with another one of the Twitter. files authors Matt Tai. EB and uh I think Elon wanted you know. Elon wanted Matt to come and publish.

that X I think Matt felt like hey I'm. already published that substack you know. which in case your viewers know is a. subscription. newsletter same thing with me I'm on. substack and Elon wanted me to also. publish it X and I was like well I get. paid to publish it substack I need to. make my living and then he said oh well. no you can do you can have subscriber. only content at X. and so I was like that's fine by me I'll. just charge the same amount to be a. subscriber at X as at substack it.

actually ended up influencing our whole. business model because my view is I want. my content on every social media. platform I would like it at X I would. like it at substack I would like it at. Facebook I would like to be treated. fairly by by Facebook and and and Google. and YouTube and if they're going to. censor and engage in bias then I'm going. to call that. out um but I do think that there's been. there's an evolution that's happening. very quickly now where the social media. platforms are becoming a little bit more. like.

Publishers and the Publishers are. becoming a little bit more like. platforms where the New York Times is so. successful I think in part because it's. not just news it's also got you know uh. product reviews and and and sports and. and you know um games and all sorts of. other stuff that keep people on the. platform where you can advertise to them. but I think that we're in the midst of a. of a huge shakeup in the way in the. whole news business it's been there for. a while but for a.

while Twitter reinforced the older model. which was that there's some trusted. sources like the New York Times and CNN. and Washington Post and then there were. other sources the citizen journalists. who were not as trusted I think now. that's all changing and now we're on. More Level Playing Field so that a small. you know news organization like my. own public can compete with the New York. Times I mean obviously not exactly level. playing we're tiny we have a million in. Revenue a year New York Times is 2.3.

billion but um on X it's a much more. Level Playing Field so you'll see our. social media posts will get a lot more. traffic than than posts from The New. York Times interesting where where do. you see. the I mean where do you think this news. stuff is going to wind up I mean it's so. it seems. like when I think Fox News I think they. have what 1.7 million daily. viewers am am I right on that are you.

familiar well I mean I think that sounds. right that's nothing and yet it's bigger. than the other cable. stations what I mean what's going to and. then and then on the flip you know you. see you see all these like really good. investigative independent journalist and. they're just I mean they're you never. see I don't see them very often. on actually I never I don't really watch. the news so I guess that's not I quit. watching the news a long time ago but um.

I don't see I I interview investigative. journalists all the time they don't get. any TV time every once in a while I'll. get one but I I'll give you an example I. got this. guy Luis. chiparo the best investigative. journalist. on. cartel activity. hands down I mean the guy in beds with. the caloa cartel he's wow he's got I.

mean he brought he brought one of my. hats with my brand on it down to a. fentol lab in caloa and had the chemists. wear my hats while they're cutting pills. just to prove to me that he can get in. there here it is wow this is it here's. the footage you know and nobody will. touch him nobody will touch that guy and. he's put stuff out he put out he he put. it out on this show I mean what I'm not.

bragging I'm just trying to make a point. two years ago he he he's the first. person I ever talked to ever heard talk. about how China is sending in chemists. he had video of it um in in supplies uh. to make fentanyl the the most deadly. fentanyl imaginal two years later. today it's hit the mainstream this guy. isn't anywhere I mean I had another. interview it's coming out um it'll have.

already been out by the time this year's. a a former CIA analyst targeter and. she's been track I had her on to talk uh. to unpack some of the stuff that went on. behind the scenes with. Benghazi and we got into and she's been. tracking these guys I mean she's a. targeter that's what she does now she. works for DOD guess what oh yeah they're. coming up through the southern border. she's still tracking them wow and but. it's like why are why why is the media.

not talking to people like that I mean. they're out there they're trying to get. in and they're not they're not giving. them the time of day and and then the. American public listens to some talking. head when we got the real deal like we. have a real Central Intelligence Agency. targeter the best of the best you know. and nobody's nobody wants to hear what. she has to say yeah yeah I mean it's. frustrating because I know the.

experience of you'll work on a story. that you think is super important and it. doesn't get the audience the excitement. that they that you wish that they would. show to it or then all might do. something that's a lot easier and it. gets a lot more attention so that's. definitely always been a part of. Journalism it's it's not the attention. though that's not what I'm complaining. about I know the people want to hear it. because Louise is one of my top up I've. had him on three times now yeah and.

every time I he knocks it out of the. park with the audience it's it's. a it's the cartel subject you know and I. mean but the media won't touch him. that's interesting I don't know why. because it seems like fox loves that. stuff so I'm not sure about that. particular case I think some of it's. um you know I will say I do think that. that I think some of it may just also be. on that I don't know but I mean my. experience sometimes with the cartel. story is that it feels like we've heard.

it MH before it feels like and it can be. a little depressing mhm especially if. you're like oh they've been fighting the. cartels and whatever and then you're. like oh it's just as bad as always mhm I. mean I think that you know I this the. old the old rule was content is King and. I think that's still true I mean when we. have something really new you know. whether it's on Co at origins or. uaps or you know DHS censorship and it's.

genuinely has not been reported before. we get big numbers on it you know if you. just take. uaps you know we both talking about we. just get a big audience when we do a UAP. story if we were if we do the same story. a year from now it won't have as big of. an. audience I think the other thing that. I'm excited about is I mean newcomers. like you and me we're relatively new I. mean I'm older than you but but we're. both kind of new to having in particular.

to this issue and we're actually able to. achieve some amount of success without. you know Ma Mega Mass audiences you know. I can still walk through the airport. without being spotted you know um and. and yet we can make a living you know. even with I mean it's amazing like we. have um about 10,000 paid subscribers. you know but a single person with a. thousand paid subscribers you know can. can earn a living as a as a journalist.

you know arguably even with 500. subscribers depend on how much you're. charging and how much you want to live. on that's amazing like in the history. of of. civilization where like it always used. to be that you had to own the printing. press which was expensive you know or. you had to own the cable TV stations or. you had to own the satellites or. something but now you can be a. journalist and and kind of work for. yourself because the technology has. evolved to the point where I can just.

report a story put it on my substack and. charge you to read the last third of it. or the last two-thirds of it and people. will pay and that's and I don't have to. have like a a boss who just happens to. own the printing press like. why like like you like you and I. shouldn't have bosses just because they. happen to own a printing press we should. be able to publish what we want to. publish and be able to capture most of. the revenue you know with like substack. I get 80 we get 85% of the revenue.

that's amazing MH like in the history of. in the history of you know truth tellers. or or journalists or whatever we are um. to be able to capture that amount of the. revenue it's incredible it's a little. bit less on YouTube obviously or maybe. not obviously so there's different ways. of monetizing it substack in some ways. feels like the final frontier where like. you're just paying substack 10% and. you're paying stripe the the payment. processor 5% a little bit less than 5%.

that's amazing to be able to keep that. amount of the money that people are. paying for your newsletter yep I mean I. love doing this it's I just wonder you. know what what is mainstream going to. look like in the next what's it going to. look like in the next year know well. it's funny CU I think Joe Rogan is is. what the new mainstream looks like yeah. who saw that com. no kidding you know 12 million Twitter. followers I don't know have 10 million. YouTube followers probably yeah um so.

you get guys like Joe Rogan or Russell. Brand that have that are much bigger. than than any show on CNN or. Fox and arguably more influential you. know because I think people you trust. Joe and you don't think that there's. somebody else behind the curtain whereas. I think at f you have a correspondent. but you know that the the Murdoch family. is ultimately deciding what's going to. be the priority yeah I.

mean I mean kicking Tucker Carlson off. just what was that you I mean and. Tucker's I mean and Tucker's landed at. Twitter and done super well right every. time he does a broadcast it has you know. many millions of more views than he. would have had on Fox yeah yeah yeah. so well well Michael I just want to say. uh I know you got a dinner you got a be. at so I'll wrap it up but one last.

question before you head out and uh if. there do you have three recommendations. of people you'd like to see on my. show that's a yeah absolutely um have. you had the FBI whistleblowers on them I. think they're all wonderful so if I were. to single one of them out then they then. they might get mad at me but uh there's. uh I think there's at least three and. maybe four that would be great I would.

definitely recommend one of them we have. to have an FBI that we can trust and. that we don't think is full of. sociopaths that are abusing their police. and investigative Powers particularly. toing trap people we've seen things that. are very suspicious including January. 6th we know that there was literally. hundreds of undercover informants in. January 6th that's crazy there's a bunch. of stuff about January 6th we haven't. UND we haven't properly.

understood um I might recommend uh Julie. Kelly as a journalist particularly on. January 6th has done a really strong. investigation as another. journalist um gosh there's so many. people I love and recommend I mean Matt. taiii is incredible I've tried to get. him yeah tried to get him let me know if. I can help okay and then um I think the. most important person on the most. important researcher on. uaps is jacqu.

valet he's uh he's a bit older now but I. saw him on Rogan and he had he was very. cogent and then James Fox has done the. best documentaries on uaps perfect the. phenomenon and moment of contact and. highly recommend. him I will hit you offline and and uh. ask for your. connections I'm happy to connect you but. um well Michael I I I hope to see you.

again I really do I this was a great. conversation that took a lot of turns. that I wasn't planning on doing and um. and um I I just I love what you're doing. thank you where can people find you. people can find me on uh X at. shellenberger no see in shellenberger. and also my substack is public . substack do.com perfect we'll link those. below and um in the meantime I I really.

hope you guys turn that state around I. appreciate it thank you Sean and thank. you for your important work particularly. for championing veterans thank you. you're a really terrific Advocate thank. you God bless God bless. [Music]. you. hey everybody I'm Shawn Ryan click here. to subscribe to the Shawn Ryan Show. YouTube channel for the hottest and most.

compelling interviews that you will not. see anywhere else I've also made a. playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find you can. find that right. here.