Keith Stansell - Held Hostage 1967 Days, Nearly Executed and Calling Chuck Norris | SRS #230

[Music]. Keith Stansel, welcome to the show. >> Thank you very much. I'm very humbled to. be here. >> Man, I've been looking forward to this. I've been really looking forward to. this. So, thank you for coming. It's. it's an honor to be able to to share. your story on on what happened down in. Colombia in captivity. So, I appreciate. you being there. I appreciate you and. what you do for the community and that. that's that's why I'm here. Not to see. my face on a show anywhere or promote.

anything. It's what you do for the. community. And I told you some of my. friends and we brought you a couple. little trinkets, right, that said, "Hey, in one of the text messages from a. ranger to you, just say thanks for what. you do. Just don't stop." And so, you. know, when I got the invite, any any. effort to support this, I'm all about. it. That means a lot. >> Well deserved, sir. >> That means a hell of a lot. So, everybody starts off with an. introduction here. You ready? >> Yes, sir.

>> Keith Stansel, former United States. Marine and Northrup Grumman contractor. who flew anti-drug surveillance missions. in Colombia is part of Plan Colombia to. intercept FAR communications and support. counter narcotic efforts. Survivor of. one of the longest hostage ordeals in. modern history, enduring 1,967. days of captivity in the Colombian. jungle after your plane crashed in FARC. controlled territory. Co-author of the. book Out of Captivity: Surviving 1,967.

days in the Colombian jungle. Two-time. air crash survivor, received the. Secretary of Defense Medal of Defense of. Freedom in 2009. dedicated husband to. Rebecca, father to your daughter Lauren, son Kyle, and twin sons Keith Jr. and. Nick, who were born after your capture. and whom you first held upon your return. home. And most importantly, you're a. Christian. >> Thank you, sir. So, couple of things to knock out here.

actually, real quick. So, you had twins. >> Yes. >> How'd you decide which ones came? >> You know what? I didn't. Um, their. mother named them while I was in. captivity. They they were born while I. was in captivity. I didn't see them till. they were 5 years old when I got. rescued. So. their mother being Latin, the joke was. I just thought, what are they going to. be named? Then when I saw Nicholas and Keith and.

it wasn't something, you know, some. crazy Wo or you know, like just a fun, it was a funny deal. And when I was in. captivity, we heard on the radio what. their names were. a Colombian major was. a buddy of mine that spent 10 years in. captivity. Um he goes he got lucky she. named him Keith and Nick. So yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll get into more of. that. We'll definitely get into more of. that. So, couple things to knock out. real quick. I've got a Patreon account. It's a it's a community that we've built.

since the beginning. They're the reason. that I get to be here with you today. >> Right. And um so one of the things that. I offer them is they get the opportunity. to ask each and every guest a question. This is a good one. It's from Jesse. Martin. After years of freedom and time. to heal emotionally and physically, if. you could go back in time to any. specific moment when you were in. captivity to share a message with. yourself, what moment would you go back. to and what would your message be?

>> Wow, that's a really good question. >> It is a good question. Um, what would my message to myself be? If I knew that I was getting the message. from the future, this too will pass. That would have been it. Um, I learned one thing in captivity. We're bred whether we like it or not as. human beings to survive. This is the way. we were created. We don't have a choice.

I think the survival instinct is. stronger in some than others, but we. don't have a choice. So, one thing that. the three of us always said to each. other, my co-page sits there, Mark and. Tom that were captured with me was, "We're going home one day." And I used. to tell Mark, I'd rather die on a tarmac, you know, after a rescue in the United States than. die here in this jungle. I just wanted. to get back home one day. Obviously, you. want to see your family, and that's what. really gives you the strength to keep.

going, those ties and all, but for me, I. wasn't dying on foreign soil. That was. my biggest fear. Damn, it's a good. answer. It's a damn good answer. And then to continue on, lot lighter. here. Everybody gets a gift. >> Uh-oh. >> Oh, wow. >> Those are sweet. >> Vigilance League gummy bears legal in. all 50 states. states. >> It's just candy. >> Awesome. >> Just candy. At least they're legal right. now. >> So, they're not from Colorado.

>> They're from Michigan. Fantastic. No, thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> But Keith, so I want to do I want to do. a life story on you. I mean, obviously, we're really going to focus in on. Colombia in captivity and what you were. doing down there, how you got captured, all that stuff. But I always like to. start with where did you grow up? I grew. up in a place called Green Meadows, Florida. Um, US 27 in Griffin Road in. Broward County, right next to the.

Everglades. Um, my father was a director of a vocational. education center. My mother was a. guidance counselor at school. And, uh, Green Meadows was. one of those first developments where. people had horses. So, you had like an. acre and a half or two and a half acres. in a middle-ass ranch home. And my. father made a good living. my mom, but. we were kind of upper middle class. We. weren't well to do, but uh spent a lot. of time, when I say traveling, um we had.

a camper, so my parents would always. take a couple trips to camp somewhere, summer, excuse me, summertime, do those. things. So really up until I was 14, it. was Mayberry for me. I was a nerd, big. buck teeth, wasn't very athletic, got. picked on a lot, but had good friends. Um, but like to fish and camp out around. my house all the time and it was just a. great place to live. And I remember my. mother had a dinner bell in front of the.

house. It was old train station bell. that my dad had put on a 4x4 post back. then. Obviously, nobody had, you know, social media and you weren't stuck. inside. You know, there was three. channels on the TV. You get home from. school and you pop smoke and you're. outside. So the rule was we don't care. where you're at but you better be able. to hear that bell cuz my mom would cook. dinner and she'd go outside and ring the. door ring the bell right and ding ding. we could tune in and we'd you know haul. ass back to the house. So, it was. fantastic. And the only thing that.

sucked is my friends on the weekend if. we're out somewhere, they couldn't find. me, they'd ring the damn bell. You come back like, you know, and so I I. uh Yeah, I have really fond memories. Um, everybody in their life has tragedies, right? So, mine the earliest on was at. 14. My mother came down with lung cancer. and she was gone in 6 weeks. >> In six weeks. >> Six weeks. Yeah. In six weeks. So that. started. a period of instability in my life.

really. I was very angry at the world. and I had just started school at a. military academy in Melbourne, Florida. called Florida Air Academy. I was going. to go into their flight school program. there with Embry Riddle and my plan was. to go into the military as a pilot. But. after her passing. um I ended up in five high schools in. four years and it was a lot of you know. uh being unstable. My father was an old. school depression era kid. He wasn't Mr. Loveydve. Hey, I love you yada yada.

Just a serious guy, good provider, but. all a sudden he had two sons, right? That wasn't really his group. You know, he was the provider and taught us many. things, but my mom was the caretaker of. everything. So, I moved around to a. couple different high schools with. family members. And you know, it really. hurt my feelings leaving Florida Air. Academy cuz I already had this plan. mapped out and uh uh it changed. everything and for my father too. I.

remember my father um. he picks me up one day from school and. my school principal had worked for my. father. my dad in Ireland and this was a. few months after my mom had died and my. father was drunk and my father was a. normal cocktail in the afternoon but I'd. never seen him get in a car and drive. drunk and uh I remember we're listening. to George Jones and he's in the seat and. he's pointing at the radio and she's. gone. She's gone. I uh.

I was so brokenhearted for my father. It's the first time I'd ever seen him. cry. the first time I'd ever seen him. weak, you know, and um you know, we just. drove home and I remember he just went. in, sat down his recliner and went to. sleep. But I'd never seen any behave, nor did I see it again, but it just I. was worried. I was worried. He'd had a. few drinks and picked me up, which he. would never do. And he you could just. see he was just he was destroyed, you. know, and um it uh it marked me for a.

long time. And we had our rough times, too. you know, you're a teenage boy, you're coming into puberty, you're going. to I was never good with authority. The. older I got, that didn't get any better. But, uh, that's the first tragic time in. my life is a memory that I think would. shape me the way I look at things. forever. And so, I would say for then on. until maybe. hell in my 20s, even though I was a. military, I was bitter from that inside. I didn't realize it until actually. really didn't realize how much it. affected me until captivity. But uh my.

mom was the stabilizer in the family, right? And uh it put me on an unstable. path. Now I wasn't robbing banks or you. know in in police cars or anything. I. was just an angry kid. And um I remember. my dad's upset with me because I had. been taken out of school and put in a. place called Nova University, an adult. college. I I academically was very. gifted, but I said, I just don't want to. go to class or do anything anymore. And.

I think my salvation. and uh I hope he's still alive. One day, I'm a senior at school, American Senior. High School in Miami, Florida, and. Sergeant Armando Yearwood walks into our. classroom as a recruiter. And uh he started giving us some Marine. Corps pitch. And I asked him, "What are. they going to do for And he said, "We're. not doing [ __ ] for you. What are you. going to do for me?" You know, very. straightforward guy. I was like, "Delayed enlistment right there. We got.

to go talk to my dad." I was 17. I. signed a year delayed enlistment until I. graduated high school. And that was one. of the best decisions I made in my life. And I by far was no Star Marine. Imagine. you go in the Marine Corps and you don't. like authority. It's just like, you. know, maybe not so well thought out. But. the Marine Corps set me on a different. path. And. like someone who works for you, who went. in the Marine Corps at 17 years old and. then became an officer and listed the. guy first, I went in Paris Island at 17.

And my drill instructors gave me a. really nice birthday gift at 18 at Paris. Island, which was about an hour workout. on the quarter deck till I puked. But um it it uh even though I was not. some star Marine, I was good at my job. in the Marine Corps. um it turned me to. a path uh that would really um help me. in the long run and guide me. And. everything I have today, surviving. captivity, where I ended up, maybe.

working outside of my pay grade, is. because I went to Paris Island at 17. years old. I got the Marine Corp to. think for everything on that. >> What did you do in the Marine Corps? >> So, I was an avionics guy, aircraft, electrician, aircraft, avionics. you. know, in the Marine Corps when we went. there, you do ICT, infantry combat. training, no matter what you do, if. you're in the wing or not. So, uh, went. through there. Then I went to. Millington, Tennessee to my aviation. basic course and started off in Cherry.

Point, North Carolina, and I was, uh, working on uh, aircraft there. Then I. got sent into the OB10 Bronco world and. uh was out in Oceanside, California for. a few months before I finally got um. stationed at Marine Corps Air Station. New River. So I was at VMO1, Marine. Observation Squadron 1. And the OB10 for. the people that don't know is just a. twin engine Ford air control bird. The. rear seater is usually a lieutenant out. of the grunts, you know, an infantry. officer. And the the front seat, he's.

not even a pilot. And the front seaters. is a naval aviator up front. and that. mission went away. But um that mission. of working and the association with OB10. is what would lead me to the counter. drug operations in Colombia years later. So um I uh. I got out after 4 years and a little. bitter again because I was going to. reinlist. and uh we had a thing called MIP, Marine. Commissioning Enlisted Program.

Basically, you apply to MISP if you can. get, you know, approved, you'll get. tuition, you go to school, you can get. your commission, and then you, you know, we'll owe them six years of your life. afterwards. That was my plan. But then. we had legislation that came down, grand. rubbing. There was no promotion, no. bonus, no anything. And I was like, why. am I staying here? Right? It wasn't the. Marine Corps's fault. It was, you know, DC legislation at the time. But uh one. thing that marked me was one day I was.

in the hanger and I was just coming in. from the flight line and there's this. lieutenant standing there that had gone. to Florida Air Academy with me and he. sees me and his nickname his call sign. was Bones but that was his nickname in. school tall and thin. He said uh he goes. stan what are you doing? I said hey sir. he goes what's up with this sir [ __ ] I. just have my t-shirt on. I go what are. you doing? He was he was there. He was. uh I think he was flying um he was.

flying Harriers. and he goes, "You flying Broncos?" I'm. like, "No, Bones, I'm not. I'm a Lance. Corpal. This about get busted to back to. PFC if I don't get my [ __ ] squared. away." But it really stung me that that. time of instability after my mom's. death, what I had not taken advantage. of. >> Damn. >> Yeah. I wasn't embarrassed at all. Nothing like that. So, when I got out of. the Marine Corps, I ended up going into. the Georgia National Guard full-time for.

9 years and uh that was an experience. The Guard is a an adventure to say the. least. Um, but learned a lot there. about a lot of stuff in the sense that. not necessarily military, but there's. that transition in the guard. It's all, you know, very nepotistic. Um the. full-time guard is an interesting. interesting um deal. Um. it is you know in the military we get.

transferred out right every two three. years somewhere active duty you're. moving you a different change of people. change of command. Well at a guard. facility there it's uh nobody ever. leaves you know you're you're there. full-time. >> Yeah. So, um, and I was in a transition. in the guard time when it went from no. real mission to all a sudden active duty. army started tasking you with missions. And so, you got your your your summer. camp every year and you bring in the. part- timerrs and go out in the field.

and do all that stuff. And but I'll. never forget I'm in the guard just a few. months. We go to Fort Stewart, get all. the part-time people in there, you know, we got two weeks out in the field and. everything. And um my first sergeant. said, "Hey, Stanzel, do me a favor." He. said, "Take this Jeep here." And. remember the old Jeeps with little flat. trailers, little small trailers. >> Yeah. >> He said, "Go to the PX and load this. [ __ ] with beer." I'm like, "Okay.". So, it was uh a bunch of rednecks flying.

CH54 Sky Crane helicopters and doing a. damn good job of it now, right? Moving. stuff for the army, but they're at Fort. Stewart. And then uh there's a big tent. and we're watching movies and drinking. beer and all the movies were not exactly. PG-rated in the woods. So some of my. buddies in the Marine Corps like what's. the guard like? I said h it's a little. bit different. It's a little bit. different. But that ended shortly. because we ended up getting shinooks. getting new aircraft and then the. standards I would say picked up and. there was a change from kind of the old.

guard to the new guard. a much higher. level of professionalism and people. coming off active duty, you know, joining that were, you know, kind of. tier one folks. Yeah. >> So, uh, it it was a totally different. guard and I got to see the transition. But interesting interesting. >> Did you did you I mean, in your days of. the military, did you ever and being in. captivity, did you ever did you ever go. to Seir training by chance? So we had. the guard had this thing I call sear.

light. You know the army would send. trainers around and give you your. training but nothing like going to Brad. and bragging completing the course. You. know I'd get I'd get a course later on. and go be Yeah. And it was, you know, it was interesting to me that when I. started working down range, all this. time in uniform, training, all the stuff. that we did, and I was an aviation guy, right? But um I would never see any hard.

stuff or hear gunshots until I was a. civilian on the dark side. I always. laughed at that, you know. And what got me from the guards of the. state department was when I was in the. Marine Corps, there was a program called. Nimbus. And it was a drug interdiction mission. run out of Homestead Air Force Base when. it was still Homestead Air Force Base. And they used our OB10s to support US. customs and DEA on takedowns.

So I got sent down there. Uh it was just a small debt to support. stuff. And that's really where we my. counter narcotics connection started and. the customs guys had a couple jets down. there. They had no fleer operator. so. kind of undercover darkness. I'm flying. doing the fleer with them and then our. OB10s are down there and you know we. were doing some cool stuff and that. later would later on lead me to getting. recruited by the state department on.

OB10 spray program. >> You got recruited? >> Yeah. I had a friend of mine, State. Department, uh, they were looking for. OB10 Bronco guys. There's not many of. us, right? And so they were out of. Patrick Air Force Base and they ran the. spray program in Colombia and then there. was another interdiction program going. on. And so he said, "Hey, you're an OV10. guy. You want a rear seat for us?" And I. I was brought on to be in a really small. group of about 15 people uh to do. interdiction and you know just get in at. night and chase guys and you know it was.

going to be a blast. So I signed the. paperwork and came on, but in the middle. that got shut down. And so my boss from the state department. calls me and it was dying corps was that. contract and he said, "Hey Keith, how. about you go to Colombia and rear seat. OB10s in Colombia for me?" And I was. like, "Okay, you know, I'll do it." So. then I wind up downrange in Colombia and. we're spraying MV OB, I'm sorry, spraying cocoa with OB10s that were, you.

know, had spray booms on them and tanks. inside. And I was running the SAR bird. in the back, which was basically an OB10. that had no spray equipment on it, but. still had the fleer system. So with the. spray package, I'd be behind and. overhead with with my pilot. Then you'd. have a SAR package. There's a couple. super Hueies and some ex folks like you. that were riding in case somebody went. down. You had to, you know, take the. penetrator down and get them out of the. jungle. Then our spray package, it'd be. anywhere from three to six birds and.

bring cocoa. >> Sprayed them with what? >> Roundup. >> You just killing. >> basically Roundup. >> Cocaine. >> Yeah. And when I first started, it was. as far as you could see. >> No [ __ ]. >> It was as far as you could see. Yeah. Once you got over the rocks, you know, down in the Andy Sound South, it was. just cocoa everywhere. And what they did. to counter that was they broke up the. big cocoa fields into small cocoa. fields. You know, the big fields, we. just come across three, four, five, six. birds and just make a long spray run. It.

was a lot easier. But uh that again. politics, you know, we'd be spraying and. doing a good job and we knew our job. that we were doing was too good. Shut. down. Shut the program down. Something. happened, we'd have to stop spraying. because it was having too much effect. So. >> too much effect on what? >> On the cocoa. You're stepping on toes. there, man. I mean, that's the thing. you know, you you think everybody up in. the government there and laadinho on.

the, you know, that's the White House of. Do you think that that's not the. influenced by the cocoa trade and the. money that's there? And then the. politics. So, one of the spray pilots that I knew. used to say, "Is it yuka in a cocoa. field or is it cocoa in a yuka field?". So they would always put on the news, this poor campino, his yuca was. spreading. That's [ __ ] The campino. was paid by the gorilla to go plant some.

yuca plants in the cocoa field and. pretend like that was his food source. And it wasn't. >> Wow. >> And it wasn't. So at every every. circle and turn, we we were being. stopped from being effective. But I flew. with a great group of guys. Everybody. from the maintenance people, the pilots, you know, were just fantastic. And. >> what was special about the OB10? >> Um,

it was a Ford air control bird, so it. was heavily armored, reasonably heavily. armored, super maneuverable, super. maneuverable, and just a really capable. aircraft. And. I think because it was free also with. the state department be able to hand. that off down there and run it. But it. was very effective at the mission. I. mean you want to fly a single engine. crop duster with almost no armor. spraying something or do you want a high. performance twin engine turborop that's. got armor on it? Right. What's the.

survivability? >> Yeah. >> That was the deal. And you know we. actually um we actually spray coke on. MVGs. didn't work very well because the OV10. at the time was not MBG compatible. So. you're going across at night across a. cocoa field, you just see streaks of. light, just attracted small arms fire. But. >> did you guys take a lot of fire? >> Yeah. But when I say take a lot of fire, um mostly small arms, AK stuff like. that. You know, there's always a bullet.

hole here or there, whatever. You know, a couple aircraft we lost, but they. weren't OB10s. Um, you know, I see the Air Force now. with this air tractor, single engine air. tractor. They've got it armored up and. it's like going to be a close air. support. I'm like, man, you're dead in. that thing. I don't know who wanted to. waste that money, but that thing in a. it it better be total air superiority. because anybody in a in a contested. environment, that aircraft is not. survival. I don't believe it is. I've. seen them down with an AK-47. now didn't.

have all this armor, but it's slow and. it's got one, you know, it's got one. motor on it. And one of my Air Force. buddies and I retired, we're talking. about that the other day. He's a retired. F-15 pilot and he's like, I can't I. wouldn't fly that thing in a contested. environment anywhere, you know. But the. O10 was a great bird. I really enjoyed. it. A lot of fun. Um, it's a lot of fun. to be able to rear seat that aircraft. and uh it it was a really good. experience. >> What was the op temple like down there?

depend upon the spraying. If we were, it. would go through cycles. And so if if we. were on kind of a hard new spray time, you just every day, you know, the. rotation down there, two to three weeks. on, 10 days off, you're spraying every. single day. Every single day. And but. then politics would shut it down or. speed it up. And you know, we did other things, too. I got a. mission one time that was kind of. interesting to support um some.

Colombians. It was a lot of fun and we went out. basically were using our systems to. locate, you know, targets for them for. them at a time just to record, not to. actually attack at that second. So, you. got to see some other stuff, right? But, uh we had some aircraft down there that. were just doing mapping. We'd map cocoa. fields. Everything would be geollocated. Then, we come back and that would help. us direct the spray on them. Interesting. >> So interesting program. I I think my. experience with the drug enforcement.

down there, just take the gloves off. Take the gloves off and if we're going. to fight it, let's fight it. But you. can't fight with one hand tie behind. your back. >> Sounds like every war I've been involved. in. >> Yeah. >> Every single one of them. >> Everyone. And you know, half of our. pilots weren't military pilots. I. remember I used to be MBG qualified to. repair goggles and stuff, right? So, I'm. in the hanger at Patrick Air Force Base.

in the State Department and my uh my. boss comes down. He's like, "Hey, Keith." He goes, "What? You're going to. um you want to train some pilots. tonight?" I figure I was just going to. give an assimilation class, right? Just. hands-on. And so, I knew they were crop. dusters. They were These guys were from. Louisiana. So, sun's going down. I go. upstairs in the hanger. or they're there. and I'm like, "Hey, would you fly in the. military?" Like, military? We've never. been in the military. What do you mean? Right. Right. So, the. three guys that were there were.

fantastic pilots. Now, I'm not knocking, but I thought I'd go upstairs and, you. know, you flew an A-10 or, you know, I. thought that was what was there and it. wasn't. And, um, so we're out there. pack, you know, outside of Patrick at. night practicing. They were low-level. MBGs, kind of do-it-yourself thing. I. was like, "Damn, this would never happen. on active duty.". >> But the guys were really good. But I. used to mess with one of the lead pilots. there. >> He'd say, "What can a military pilot do.

at 100 120 ft that I can't do?" And I. said, "Well, you're running 90 knots. He's running 400. That's what he could. do." You know, so there was always a. friendly back and forth. And we we. brought in some, you know, some. experienced ex-military guys, fixedwing. guys. And uh it all worked out. It it it. worked out. It was it was a group of. Americans down there that you know. although they were contracting and you. saw this in your life after you know you. got out, they still wanted to do the.

job. >> Yep. >> Everybody there want to do the job. I. didn't fly with a pilot or work with. anybody there that didn't want to do the. job. >> Man, that sounds like such a cool. mission. >> I thought. >> I did not realize this was State. Department mission. >> Yeah. >> I thought this was an agency mission. >> No, State Department. It was run out of. Patrick. >> No [ __ ] Where were you guys staged out. of? >> Uh Laurandia was one of our San Jose and. Lauri were two of our bases that we were. staged out of and you know we had some. air tractors there and OB10s and a mix.

of uh mechs from all different services. and pilots and people that do a job and. do a good job. You know, it was it was. um all patriots, right? And you know, Dying Corps used to get a bad rap about, "Yeah, you got a bunch of ex-inlisted. beer drinking guys down there partying. all over Latin America and doing a. counter drug mission." Well, yeah, that's what you attract. >> Yep. >> You're not looking for choir boys cuz. you're not getting them. I've had this. conversation so many times.

>> But those same guys. will do a kick-ass job. And they did. >> Yeah. Yeah. Were you guys Was it. specifically Columbia? Were you going. into Peru? >> No. No. There was Columbia when I was on. that. That was all. We never left. We. never left Columbia. That would not. start until I got on with Southcom. Reconnaissance Systems. Then it was a. different mission. Then it was a. different mission. But I mean, you know, even sometimes I know you must. have been in places like, man, this. sucks. But if you think about it now,

there were some lessons there you were. learning, didn't you realize, you know, >> and uh I've got some great memories of. some really good people there. I've got some really sad memories of one. of our guys getting killed by accident. with a minigun on his own by his own. best friend there on the base, which was. really really sad. You know, we had a we. had a. a uh he he wasn't an indage. He was I. can't remember if he was from Ecuador. I.

think he was Ecuador and he was Huey. Mechanics. Great guy. and one of his. buddies was a retired Marine E7 and they. were armors or the one E7 was an armor. and so at San Jose we had a little pad. and we had the aircraft there and and um. you know that minigun I don't care what. it is if you just turn those barrels if. there's something in there it's going. off right so his be they were best buds. so the Ecuador was standing right in. front of the minigun and his buddy just. turned we all heard boom ran outside and.

a bullet went in under his right armpit. I remember came out here just dropped. dead like a stone. >> Yeah. >> You know, and it was uh. it was sad, really sad because it was an. accident and uh it would become a whole. legal thing afterwards. and uh but two really close friends and. the American who was a former Marine. there, he uh he he was stuck on base for.

months until they cleared. It wasn't on. purpose, right? you know, I felt so. terrible for him, you know, because he. was just crushed. I mean, crushed. So, you know, it was a reminder this isn't a. joke. You know, these these SAR birds. and, you know, they get it on sometimes. There'd be somebody shooting at them and. then just giving the guys in SAR. aircraft a chance to get some rust off. the miniguns. But, um, yeah, it was just. uh it's just a sad sad event. >> Yeah. You know, I mean, for base.

security, we had a uh seen old yellow. tugs on a flight line. You've seen them. a million times, right? And we had to. come up with a base security plan. So, we got a portable power generator that. we used to used to uh start aircraft. with, hooked it to the tug, then got a. seat off of a bass boat and welded a. minigun mount on it so we had power for. the minigun and put ammo racks on the. side. And when we passed the the base. security plan for that,

>> did you guys was there a lot of. engagements? >> No, not really. >> No. Any. >> when I say engagements? Um, it would usually be. the gunships. If there was reported fire. on a pass, they would dive down to. engage. But who could you see? One or. two gorillas in the side of a jungle in. the cocoa field. So full-on head-to-head. combat. No. No. They didn't want that.

Those guys in those helicopters were. looking for that. You know, they took it. very serious to protect the package. >> Yeah. >> So you'd come back, you'd even know you. got hit sometimes. You know, there'd be. one or two or three holes in the. aircraft and but there was no full up, you know, wild west gunfights with that. >> Let's go into. I want you to educate the audience on. who the FARC is. >> Okay. Armadas Robilio de Colombia.

fesus forces armed revolutionary forces. of Colombia. So the fork manifested. itself in 1964 same year I was born and. led by a guy a campino called Tito Fio. which is fixed bullet or fixed shot. And. in the late 50s and early 60s when the. whole communist plague was taking over. Latin America, they were basically an out uh derivative. of that. And you have to think about.

Colombia as two different countries at. that time. >> Mhm. >> You've got Bogota at 8,800 ft where the. wealthy and the political class lived. Then you had the rest rest of the. country at sea level. No real. infrastructure in the country to get and. drive a truck here or there. Mostly. dirt. I'm I'm paint 1964, right? So you. had a basically a campino kind of. working class as they called it, you. know, maybe the proletariat want to. pronounce that way against the elite.

class that had the money, right? But. then they also owned all the big ranches. and property in the countryside. So the FARC came about as a way to maybe. or I would give him legitimacy there to. fight the political class and the elites. for some fairness in the country. Definitely a class system, right? No. doubt about it. But over the years, what. infiltrated the FARC was the drug trade.

So they became, I would say, I hate to. use the word victims, but their. revolution, you know, like any communist revolution. is all a bunch of [ __ ] right? You. just you trade one ruling class for. another, right? And uh it really really. in the late '7s when the cocaine trade. started and that became the big money, then it became just a cover for the. largest cocaine trafficking network in. the world. And that's all the park's.

about. It's all Now, now that kid you've. brainwashed as a 14-year-old campino to. become a gorilla, he believes in the. revolution. But there's an interesting thing. Uh. when I got rescued in 2008, I saw a. newspaper article that come came out and. it showed the FAR leadership called the. Secretariat, right? This this was the. brain trust, right? Where all their. children were. Their kids weren't in the jungle. They. were at universities in Europe and in.

Florida. I mean, they, you know, and you. got these guys that are ultra wealthy. and running this big cocaine trade. And. so, uh, you had the secretary, then you. had the commodant, and you have. different fronts right around the. country that were divvied up. And so, uh, it just manifested itself into a. type of cancer, I think. and uh what was. once a revolution that I think they. actually believed in. Now from a certain. level below those worker bees believed. in a revolution but the ones up top.

I mean they were they were just. corrupted with their own money. >> Yeah. >> My belief that's I think many people. support that. >> Is the FARC still active? >> Yes. This is what's sad. So. let me see seven years eight years ago. we had a peace process. No nine years. ago. So, President Ariebe, who was a. hardline right right-wing guy, basically. brought the FARC to their knees.

Then the president that followed him. decided to have a peace process, which. they had failed before. So, we take the. leadership to Cuba. They get fanfare. Some of our major politicians go down. there and uh they negotiate a peace. process. And I think I don't know what. the number was, maybe 20,000 or so. They. turned in their arms and they came out. of the jungle. All right. But they really didn't do that. Some.

groups stayed and refused to turn. themselves in. The FARC were promised. six seats, I think, now I can be off on. this number in the Colombian Congress. called a kuru. So you take these guys out, you forgive. them of crimes against humanity, then. you put them in the Congress. >> Wow. And you know, this whole peace deal. was. >> When was those? >> Gosh, Park peace deals. This would be. 10 years ago. 14 and 15, I think. So,

I'll never forget. Car's going to go down there and talk to. him and other people were going to talk. to him and I just saw our politicians. going, "Man, you guys know nothing about. these guys." And this, you know, it's. just kind of like the Taliban being a B. team, right? you know, and um. I was I was up in DC and I did an. interview and I can't remember if it was. on CNN or Fox, but um one of our. senators, very famous, and he's deceased.

now and was a P from Arizona. I don't. want to disparage him, but he was making. comments about the park and the peace. deal. and I was on CNN and I shot back. at him and said, "Hey, would you like to. debate this or could I at least talk to. you? I don't know who's briefing you, who's, you know, and he wouldn't do a. debate with me or even anything. CNN. tried to get us to do it together." But. the thing was, um, he was so far out. of base and some of the things that.

Carrie said, I was like, "Who are you. talking to? What's going on?" You know, and so it was disappointing to see that. peace process. people that uh should be. in jail for life at a minimum get. forgiven, but I get it was for a greater. good. Well, now what they call the. dissident fled back to the jungle and. restarted the FARC, but now they're. splintered. So, they're not as powerful. as they once were, but they're still. there. And now we have an ultra liberal. government.

>> that uh believes in this talk stuff, right? And it just buys them time. And. so the FARC dissidentia is what they. call it has really has grown. You can. look up a guy named Moriscoco right now. as one of them. He's a leadership. They're backed by popular demand, you. know, and so uh it's just a cycle. I I. think the peace process gave a lot of. FARC members a chance to escape the. jungle, some of the young people. But um in my.

capture, there's a guy, we all had. nicknames, right? He was a guy who had. us in the jungle personally for longest. His name was Gothus. So when we got captured and he was. captured, our government tried to. extradite him, but the Colombian. government wouldn't play ball. So Gothis. was put into uh into jail. He was. released under the peace process. and the liberal president down there now. wanted to make him a special envoy to.

the FARC dissident. Right. What did he. do? He just went back and kidnapped the. Colombian congresswoman. I just went. back to his old tricks. He was just on. the news a few months ago. And it was. sickening to me to see this guy that was. in handcuffs. right next to the helicopter after our. rescue sitting up like this like this to. a you know female congresswoman saying. don't come back here again. Just. released. And now he's now he's you know. else the question. He's He's kidnapping.

people again. What he should have had. was a [ __ ] bullet between his eyes. >> This [ __ ] happens all the time. Look at. all the people we released from Gibbo. >> These are not good people. You know, I worked. >> understand it. >> I worked at Northr Groomman with an. interesting character. Former 82nd Airborne Onear Harry Axon, God rest his soul. He's buried in. Arlington right now. and he made a. comment because he was asking me about. some of the leadership down there and he.

was our corporate lead up there for. SOCOM. and uh I had a picture of him when he. went into Panama. He was sitting behind. Nora's desk holding his sword and I said. uh I said Harry like what's your opinion. and he just looked at me he said you. know Keith. unfortunately some people just need. killing. and it wasn't it wasn't animosity it. wasn't with anger but he was just like. these people are just going to do what. they're going to do right.

I mean. so what do we do I mean I guess on the. right of being human and humane We want. to to. maybe give them the benefit of the doubt. or whatever it is, right? But some. people are just murderers, man. And and. that's just they're never going to. change. And we have this way of always. hoping to negotiate with the. unnegotiable. >> Yeah. Never seem to learn a lesson. >> I don't I don't understand it. >> How strong was how many people were.

involved in the FARC at the time? Do you. have any idea? >> I don't know. We've heard different. numbers, right? I think they were probably. maybe more than 30,000 strong at the. height. So there's a very famous. takedown of a post called Me Too. So the. Colombian police and soldiers that were. in captivity with us, the majority of. them were taken from me too way down. south. There was no way for the. Colombian military to really get down. there. And they were much weaker. This.

is before Plan Colombia, right? They. were much weaker then. So a few thousand. FRAs around an outpost man and just. start killing and capture them. And at. one time in the despair, right in the despair, the FARC had over. 400. police and soldiers in captivity. >> Are you serious? >> 400. Now imagine this. Imagine this. Let's just say in this county in. Tennessee,

you had 400 American men and women in. captivity cuz you were some security. force. And the government or the state. of Tennessee given a spay like you know. it was much bigger than just I think it. was the size of Rhode Island. And on the. night, families, American families have to see. their own kids. and grown men behind fences in their own. country as they negotiate.

Then then we have American CEOs and and. business people wanting to do business. with the FARC and flying down there and. visiting them and it's just a they just. gave them their own state. So what did. they do? They just used that to grow. stronger. Then they let the they let the the the. few hundred go of the soldiers and. police and they kept the officers and. the politicians that they captured. Damn. So they always wanted.

that's the humanitarian exchange. We want all the [ __ ] you have in prisons. for our people. And that's what as Tom. we got captured always said. So we're. just hanging. And so they always wanted. to spay to have another humanitarian. exchange. But they were now a named. terrorist organization. So what was the. strategy? You got to declare us a legitimate. military force. Then you have to openly.

negotiate with us and a dispay and then. we'll exchange prisoners. They were. never exchanging anybody. We were just. political currency. Just political currency. And I remember. Rumsfeld, I heard it on the radio. They were talking about the three. American hostages and they were it was a. news thing and it was a press conference. and Rumsfeld, our sector at the time was. just holding it, right? And our our our,

you know, our subject came up. He goes, "We don't negotiate next.". I was like, "Damn, today sucks, right?". You know, did I want them to negotiate. for us and trade us out? Yeah, of course. I did. Who who doesn't want to go home? But I knew that's a fantasy. And if you. negotiate and you trade for me, then. who's next after Keith or Tom or Mark? That's what's going to happen, you know, if you can leverage them. And so, you. know, I always.

all we wanted and we stated in our first. proof of life, we wanted to be rescued, but I wanted our guys coming to rescue. us, not the Colombians. And I remember. because the whole plan was. during a rescue op the first time they. hear the Hilos there's a disembark. they're going to they just start they. did it. >> Yeah. >> You know in the first Colombian rescue. operation how sad is this? You had a. group of political prisoners I think. there was 20 or so of them in a.

basically in a cage in the jungle. Hidden in the jungle. So the Colombian military flies over the. camp. flies over the camp. You could see the. boots hanging outside the Blackhawks. Then they [ __ ] disembark like a mile. away in the jungle. What happens? They just walk in there. and they kill every single one of them. Not only does the FARC execute them, then haul ass. Then they send a guy back. to shoot everybody in the head again.

One of those guys survived. He was a. like you could call him like a state. legislator. wasn't a national and he. survived by hiding under the dead bodies. of his friends. [ __ ] And he told the story. What kind of. So do you want to rescue from that. group? >> You heard that while you were in. captivity. That stuff. >> it happened. Yeah.

>> [ __ ]. >> And what they were they were a group of. municipal. legislators. the FARC dressed up like police, drive into a little town, right? Run. into the little courthouse where they're. having them and say, "Hey, outside it's. you're at risk." Get them on a school. bus. Start driving the countryside. Say, "Oh, by the way, we're not police. You're we're FARC.". How about that? >> Damn. Damn. Well, Keith, let's take a quick break.

>> Yeah. >> When we come back, I want to talk as. descriptive as you can about the night. you went down. Oh yeah. >> And then we'll go through the next five. years. >> And I I will say one thing. They did. come in to execute us one night, but the. order got pulled off and we were this. close. I mean, they were right there. >> Holy [ __ ] We'll get into that. >> It went from. terror. to anger. It was so deep into it. And I mean, if you want to say it now. before we break real quick or not.

>> Let's do it. So. being a crew chief for a long time, riding shinooks and cranes, whatever, I. can hear I could just feel a helicopter. from a long way. You just you get used. to it, right? Everybody's like that. So. the biggest fear we had, and this would. affect me uh in freedom afterwards, but uh the biggest fear we had was a. disembark at night that wasn't done. right. So Condisa Rice when she was Secretary. of State was visiting Colombia and she.

made a very poignant statement. It was. on the radio. Plan Colombia. We're going. to have government presence everywhere. and she was right. That's what we. needed. She's 100% correct. But while. they were down there, we noticed a lot. of air activity, but it'd be way off. So. we just figured it was just more. aircraft mobilizing people. So one night. this we hear these two Blackhawks then. it breaks into one and it starts.

circling the camp but a giant giant. circle. We did not know when I find out. until later that they didn't have our. camp spotted. So there's a couple. hundred gorillas guarding our camp. because we had Colombian police and. military on one side of the fence and. then the politicians and us, the. Colombian politicians and the three of. us. So they come to the gate to kill us. and they bring the guards. Every guard. has one person assigned they're. responsible to kill. So there's this. pandemonium in our compound and Mark.

actually we had a little escape route. plan. Mark was actually. he slipped out under the fence and um. everybody's screaming. I sat down cuz. we're in a we're in a box like this and. I said, "Man, they're just going to. whack us." And there was a Colombian. congressman with him. We had a nickname. We called him big cat, you know, whatever. Anyway, uh, so I was. terrified. I'm like, they're just going. to shoot the [ __ ] out. I said, I heard. the guards talking, man, is this real?

Is this real? They the guards were. nervous because they knew they were. going to shoot us. And so I went from. being terrified, but when I say. terrified, I mean I didn't crap in my. pants when I was close to I got angry. And I don't know why. It was not a macho. decision. I shot I'm not saying I was a. badass, nothing like that. I got [ __ ]. pissed cuz I felt like I was laying. there like a rat. And I got up and I. walked to the gate in Fair, who was the. evil. uh boss of the guards. I said, "You.

going to [ __ ] kill us? You going to. kill us?" I said, "Motherfucker, shoot. me like a man." And the congressman, Big. Cat, grabbed me. He said, "Keith, don't. say that. Don't say that." I mean, every. it's it's total chaos. I said, "You. shoot me like a [ __ ] man. I you. know," and I I don't know why I said it. I it wasn't like I was being a badass. Sean or whatever, but I just went from. terror, absolute terror, to just anger. If I could have got my hands on them, I. mean, you know, and then the radio goes. off and they shut it down and the.

Blackhawk went away. But we were this. close. >> and FE had his radio on and they're. waiting. They're talking back and forth. cuz the cuz the macho commodante who is. escaping right now, okay, is talking to. him on the radio whether or not to give. him the order to kill all of us cuz we. are the HVT of of hostages. >> I was terrified, man. Terrified. Then I. just got angry. And I don't I wish I. could tell you why. There was no there's. no training, no macho, no nothing. I was. just furious that you were going to kill.

me. >> How long after you were in there did. this happen? >> A year and a half. Yeah, a little over a year and a half. >> What happened to your buddy that slipped. through the fence? >> His ass finally got back in there. Mark, I said, "Man, you almost [ __ ] up." He. marked just hung by the he we didn't. know what to do, right? He slipped back. in. Tore his t-shirt. Whatever. I was. like, I talk about it now. >> Damn. >> Yeah. >> Keith, let's take a quick break. >> Yes, sir.

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tell them it was from this show. All right, Keith, we're back from the. break. We're getting ready to get into. the night that you guys crashed and got. were held in captivity. But what what. was the name of the outfit you're. running with as far as Well, it's on. your head. Southcom Reconnaissance Systems. That. wild underplan Colombia. And when I saw. your hat and it said SRS at first, just.

for a second, I wasn't thinking Shawn. Ryan show cuz I was thinking back to. Southcom Reconnaissance Systems. I said. SRS cuz that's what we were. We were. SRS. And so for a second I'm like, oh no. Shawn Ryan show. I wish I was that. switched on, Keith. Otherwise, I would have said yes. >> Oh my god. And so when I saw it, how. just I don't know what you'd call it, right? But I'm sitting here doing the. show with you with basically the same.

hat that I wore when I got captured. Kind of a little different, right? >> Well, we got you one. These are company. only. Nobody else has them. >> Oh, really? >> Yep. Well, I won't share it, >> but small community, but it really is. It kind of boogered me up a little. I. said, "Oh, I said, did he do that for. Oh, no. Sean Ryan show, you know." So, >> all right, Keith, let's move into it. So, what was happening that night. that you. >> the It was actually very early in the. morning. It was so we had uh as a as a.

mission commander, I'd get a an intel. box from the embassy for my mission of. targets. We'd all meet at the airport. usually an hour and a half before we'd. take off and um. confer with the pilots and you know um. Mark who was new we had brought Mark. into the picture to streamline our. collection right he was an analyst in.

the air force an intel analyst and he. also worked with our stuff in embassy so. he was hired to help us you make a. better product essentially. So he was. training to be a mission commander. because the funny thing about our bird. was it's a Cessna caravan. Everybody. knows you know 10 place bird or whatever. but we had one Colombian that's a host. nation rider that always flew with us to. see what we're doing. And people think. oh the Americans run a Colombian do what. they want. you know, we had somebody on.

board that knew what we were doing, was. working with us, you know, and we didn't. just go somewhere without permission and. collect on targets up front and breaks. my heart, but CW5 retired, Tommy Janice, we're here because of Tommy, you know, um 30 years retired Delta uh guy was. unit forever. Right seat was Tom House. who had never been a military pilot, but. he done a lot of work in Latin America. in these type of missions. And know Mark. was next to me to the left, number one.

side of the bird. I was on the right. And the sad sad thing was Sergeant. Aletis Cruz was up front on his f very. first mission. >> That was his first mission. >> Young guy, wife, kids. And uh what's a. bigger heartbreaker is he came with his. buddy that morning. They they thought. they both were going to fly. And I said, "I can't take two of you. I've only got. space for one." He was super excited. His first mission, right? And uh he'd never come back. >> Damn. >> And so it breaks my heart.

remembering moments after the crash, the. conversation. Um it was really bad. But to start off. the mission, we you know, we get in. there, uh show the target to the chief. pilot and left seedar and then we're go. over what we're going to do. Take off. out of Bogota, cross the rocks, it's a. little bit high, and then we get down. the flat land and go do our mission. So. we were going into. a fixed base to get fuel and right.

before right before the runway there. some rocks about you know we call them. small hills about 3500 4,000 ft. So we. had a combination I call it shoot down. engine failure. Um. we were coming down at a 15,000 ft. We're on oxygen and we're in a place. where I used to look down and go, "If we. ever go down here, we're dead." We. crossed it every day, but it was just. mountainous stuff in no man's land. And. I remember Tommy saying 12,000. I had.

alimter in the back, but I knew. So, we. all took our oxygen off. And um I hear. the birds, no motor. So, I said, "Tommy, what was that?". He goes, "That's an engine failure, sir. Cool, calm, collected, like like. nothing's going on.". So, they start trying to do a restart on. the motor. And I hear Tommy tell Tom in the right.

seat, "Run the numbers." He wanted to. know if we if there'd have been no hills. in front of us, no small mountains, we. could have glided in. It would have been. a non-event. Tommy had already suffered. a similar event off the coast to. Columbia a year before and brought the. aircraft back like it was nothing and. landed at at airport on the coast. So, um. I tell Mark, um make the Mayday call. and I remember telling Tommy, I don't.

know why I did it, but just cuz it's. comedy. I said, Tommy, do some of that. pilot [ __ ] please. Just just. wait. So, um, Tom in the right seat, the numbers were. not adding up and Tommy just said, "Fuck. it." Which he did the right thing. He. looked and saw a valley next to us and. he just broke and we started circling. And he was just burning off speed and. essentially what he did is he burned off. air speed until we actually crashed. going uphill to slow the aircraft down.

I cannot tell you. I mean, unbelievable piloting skills. And uh he was inducted last year. I come. up here into the Army Aviation Hall of. Fame. Welld deserved. Uh I'm here only. because of his piloting skills. We. should have We should have be dead right. there on that. >> Damn. >> So, I tell Mark, I said, "Mark, make the. Mayday call." Mark steps on the foot mic. and his voice cracks. I said, "Give me. the mic. You get the target stuff." So,

Mark starts organizing what's on there. I start making the Mayday. So, our boys in Key West and the boys in. embassy, I'm on the sackcom. Everybody. in the world's listening to us, right? And a friend of ours was in the office. that morning in the embassy and he gets. on and he's upset. All I'm doing is just. giving grid coordinates as we go down so. they can find us. I told him how many. souls were on board. Just the standard. stuff that you train to do. Mhm. >> And um.

I don't think any of us. I know Tommy Janice wasn't was really. scared when we were going down cuz we're. just focused on securing stuff and Mark. securing stuff in the aircraft so it. just doesn't kill us when we crash in. But I remember Sergeant Cruz. He. couldn't speak English. He's right in. front of me. So I explained him as best. I could what was happening. I strap him. in the seat. He was upset. You could. tell he was upset. What we did not know. was that there was a column of gorillas.

and they were on the mountain side right. under us. They were there waiting for. aircraft on approach trying to shoot. them down. [ __ ]. We didn't know. We did not know at that. moment that our aircraft was getting. filled with holes cuz we're just the. adrenaline's going right. We're just. doing what we have to do. They're. shooting the hell out of us right then. We didn't know it. Now, did you guys did. you guys have any type of a quick. reactionary force ready to come get you? >> Yeah, they did. They had at at the base,

you know, they they had a the spray. reaction force. They had those guys, but. no, we were in Indian country on our. own. There was no QRF for us at all. And. I remember. Tommy saying as we're, you know, now I'm. looking at Jungle Side above us, but he. just burned off air speed. And Tom says, he said, "You better put it down because. about 15t in front of the aircraft was. about a 400t cliff. That's how close we. came to the edge of the cliff." So Tommy.

goes, "Hey guys, this is going to hurt.". And we hit first, broke off a landing. gear, then we dug in. What I remember. most is the side of the aircraft just. opened up like a, you know, just a can. opener. debris and dirt and everything are. coming in and um we come to a stop. Mark. and I are yelling at Tom and Tommy up. there. We didn't know they're. unconscious. Sergeant Cruz was okay. So.

behind me is a cargo door. So I said, "Mark, you get the gun bag, get the. target deck, right, and I'll get the pilots." So Cruz and I. jumped out to get to the pilots. And the. first thing I saw on the right hand. side, and I thought Thomas house was. dead. The whole flap of his forehead was. cut open and covering his eye and he was. out of his straps and twisted up in the. in the windshield of the aircraft. So I. start pounding on the windscreen. He's.

not moving. I said I thought his neck. was broken. I said he's dead. He's. [ __ ] dead. I see Tommy next door. right start moving. So, we run around to. that side and get the door open. And. Tommy, how do you describe Tommy Janice, man? 56, probably weighed a buck 60, buck 56, ran. 6 to 10 miles a day, had a six-pack, as. vain as vain could be, man. Had his hair.

all blonde. I mean, Tommy was but vain. in the healthy way. Just Tommy Janice is. a character and a half and he's a. product of his community. He really he. fits in there. And uh we get Tommy out. He stands right there. I said, "Tommy, [ __ ] man. Thank you." Like we're you. just saved us, right? He just does like. this. Then we hear him gunfire coming at. us, right? He just puts his hands to his. hair like this.

He goes, "How do I look?". No way. >> I swear to God on my life. Then he. reaches over and he always flew with. polo socks over his danners. He. straightened the sock up. He goes, "How. do I look?" He jumps up and down. I. said, "You look [ __ ] awesome.". Holy [ __ ]. >> That's Tom Janice. >> Damn. >> Like if you want to write a movie about. a guy that flew was, you know, a unit. guy for years and that was Tom Janice.

That's why he's in the Aviation Hall of. Fame. It's not by flipping accident, right? Who else does that [ __ ] at that. moment? So Mark gets around and Tom comes up and. Tom gets out. Tom's alive. I Mark gives me the just the gumbag of. my M4 and we had our our just our. bettas. I threw that [ __ ] over the. cliff and Sergeant Cruz is getting mad. at me. He's like, "Shoot, shoot.". Because there's like 60 or 70 gorillas. going up the hill. I said, "Fuck no, we're not shoot. We ain't dying today.

We're not dying here and we can't. I. mean, we were uncovered ground. They. were coming. There's nothing. It was. over. Game was over. And Cruz is crying, but not out of like being, and I don't. want to disrespect him, but he was. crying out of frustration. He wanted to. fight and he knew we couldn't, you know, and he says, "Tell them I'm an. American. Tell them I'm an American." I. said, "We will, but they know who you. are, right?" And the scary thing was is.

Mark looks Latin. And at first they. thought Mark was a Colombian too, you. know. So, um, I turn around and then. there's a couple guys in our face with. AKs in our face. >> It happened that quick. >> Yeah. Oh, they were on top. We crashed. right in the middle of about 100 and. some odd gorillas. The guys that were. shooting at us, we crashed in the middle. of them. >> Holy [ __ ] man. >> So, they split us up, right? And they. took Mark and Tom and I down the hill. first. And they took Sergeant Cruz and.

Tommy in another direction. That's what. they do. They split you up. So if a cure. for somebody gets there, they don't get. all their golden eggs. And I'll never. forget, I remember this. I looked over. and I see Tom, you know, Tom Janice. dragging his right leg like he can't. walk. He's got serious sear training. He all. knows one thing. that first 30 seconds, 60 sec, whatever. Well, if there's ever. a time to pop smoke, you're going to. escape. He had a plan. I knew it would.

end up getting him killed, but there was. nothing wrong with his leg. My theory is. this. Tommy was dragging his leg trying to. give distance between a group of. gorillas and just the two gorillas that. were with him, trying to buy himself. time. That's what he was doing. He. Hemy's just he was a different level. And so, um, we never heard the gunshots, but what we would later discover, Tommy popped smoke, they shot him in the.

base of the head and the shoulder. Crews. turn around, they shot him in the chest. and through the hands and into the chest. and killed them both. And um, we. wouldn't find that out for months. So, they take us down a hill to another. side. >> Hold up. Let's rewind. >> Okay. >> You speak Spanish. >> See, mucho. So, what were they saying. when they. >> Here's the problem. I didn't speak. Spanish then. I learned it in captivity. >> [ __ ].

>> So, but I'll never I watched Tommy. Tommy. Tommy once they separated, Tommy's. already planned. Hey, I'm I'm out. They take us down a hill to like a shack. and there's a couple lemon trees and. they strip us to search us and they make. us flipping lemonade, a big bowl of lemonade for us for. everybody to drink. and we're sitting in. our underwear on the side of a hill, right? And I look up the hill. and there's a uh a girl who was leading.

the group who would later be killed. Um. I've never seen a woman as physically. capable as as this woman leading a. gorilla group. You know, if if there was. ever going to be a woman that and I may. not people may not want to hear this, but if she legitimately wants to pass. the Ranger course, this one will do it. There'll be no push back on her. She was. a physical freak and had been leading. gorilla columns for years in early 30s.

and a killer. She was a [ __ ] killer. We'd find out about it later. But um. we get dressed, we're finishing up. lemonade, and all a sudden you can hear. here come the Hueies. They're coming to. the crash site. And so, um, she took an RPG. and shot it through the bottom of the. fuselage after they got all the stuff. off of it. When the Hueies got there,

there was two, but one was like in. trail. One got there, starts circling. us, right? But they can't shoot the. gorilla cuz the gorilla grab up around. us. As they circle around a head of bushes, they light up. I guess I don't know if. anybody died or not, but they shot at. another group of gorilla. So, they. pushed us on the ground. Then the. gunfight starts between the other. gorillas and them. And in the middle of. that, I grab a tree to hold on. Mark and. I on the side. We don't want to fall. further down. Just slide. It wasn't like. a cliff. We're going to get hurt. And. this gorilla looks at me. He sees my.

watch. In the middle of that [ __ ] he. steals my watch. I mean, right. So, so. I've never talked to him, but I'm. assuming the lead bird realized we're in. the middle of that, so they just had to. stop shooting. So, they just start. circling us. And I don't know how we got. separated, but we were coming out onto a little. coffee bean field on the side and on the. top of the field was a little tin hut. that the Campasinos lived in. And I look.

up and I see Mark and Tom making it to. the hut. and they're telling me, "Go, go, go. So, I'm pushing up the hill and there's a. giant I don't know how big the tree was, but there's a tree stumped. It must have. been about 4t tall, but probably 3 or 4t. around. And uh all of a sudden, the bird gets back on top of us. Well, the gorilla like 60 yards behind me and. 40 yards ahead of me. There's all these. guns pointing on me and I I I get down.

next to the tree trunk because I'm. thinking they're just going to shoot me. before they let the the uh helicopter, you know, hoist me out. And I remember I. remember the gunner looking at me and. we're I mean he's blowing [ __ ] all over. me, right? We're this close. He just. goes, "Sorry, man." And. that [ __ ] sucked. >> Damn. >> And then that just started a nightmare. 3-week march into the Amazon basin. Real. quick before we go farther in, what was.

the what were you guys collecting on. these targets? >> Uh, here's what really sucked on that. target. God, this could have been worse. We were collecting. on coca fields and elicit runways. and labs. So each of the bosses had their own. area. But the worst boss, Mono Hoy, who. was their military leader, we were. collecting on his [ __ ] and they captured. that.

So, not good. >> Yeah. >> And I remember um. one last pass by the bird. I think Tom. and Mark and all were all together. I I. believe we were. We're on our backs and. there's a gorilla got his arm around. each of us. So each like we're. interlocked and we're in a little coffee. bean field. The plants are small. The. helicopter comes back and hovers over. us. But what can they do? Right. Then we. made it into the canopy and it was just. a three-we death march. But I'll never.

forget. the girl I said the bad was a badass. Her name was Sonia. And uh I' I've just. never seen a woman in the field this. physically impressive. I mean, I seen. about 90% of guys I know could not keep. up with her. We would find out who she. was later and but she was I think she. was the only female column leader had 75. to 100 people and uh the sun is going. down and we all just hunched up together.

and you can hear aircraft everywhere, right? They're looking for us and she. goes, "Your [ __ ] micro switch. Your. micro switch." We're all laying there on. the ground. She said, "What?" She goes, "You have a micro switch?" Like what? She goes, "If you have a micro switch, I. will kill you.". So she thought this was how. like dinosaurs they were, right? Primitive. But they're scared of. American technology.

She thought that we had micro switch. micro switches in our bodies, maybe, you. know, injected somewhere that could hear. our conversations and locate us. No. [ __ ] And I'll never forget, I grabbed. her hand. She had a Casio like G-Shock. watch on. I said, "That's where your. micro switch is at." But they didn't. even know what a micro switch was, right? But our ass was on the line for. it. >> That's quick thinking. >> And Tom, who spoke fluent Spanish,

explained to her, "No, we don't have.". But that's, you know, that's that's not a good thing. at at that time, right? You know, >> you just came up with that on the fly. I. didn't know what to say. I just said, "Do you got a micro switch right there?". >> What'd you do? >> Just kind of calm down. And then I watched and I didn't want to. say anything, but you know, we had our. vest with our E-B and radio and all this. stuff, right? One of those guys is carrying our vest.

I'm thinking, "Fuck, is the earb on? Is it on?" I didn't say nothing. And. Mark, if I remember, I'm like, "What? What? What?" And then a few minutes. later, I see them taking apart and. taking the batteries out of it. So I I. don't know if it was ever on or not. They had I think did we have a set of. MBGs on? I don't remember. And then it just was a death march, you. know. It was just a death march. So. >> what do you mean by a death march? >> So I'll just say this. Take a.

14-year-old kid, put a rucks sack on his. back. He's from the mountains anyway. He's not from the flat land. And just. put beans and rice and bullets on his. back. and all he does for five or six. years is just walk the mountains every. day, right? You're not keeping up with. them. I'm sorry. This I mean they're. they're just you're just strong, right? So, it was almost 3 weeks where they. took us to where some members of the. secretariat were to turn us over to them. where one fresh group would walk us for. 8 n 10 hours, then they just turn us.

over to another group, right? Then we just keep daisy chaining. like that. And uh we got separated in. the march at times, but I remember it. was a point where if we ever physically. stopped, I just fall down on the ground asleep as. I've never known exhaustion like that. before. And um my particular difficulty was I. had a pair of Danner mountain boots on. and they were worried about tracks.

In in Ecuador, they make these cheap ass. black rubber boots that even the. Colombian army uses. They'll put their. combat boots over their neck, but they. in the wet stuff in the jungle, you put. that rubber boot on. It's worth 10. bucks. And it's the perfect That's what. everybody wears, right? And it works in. the mountains. So, they couldn't get me. a pair of rubber boots that were big. enough and cuz they're they're all small. people. I wear a size 12. So, they took. a pair of rubber boots and they cut the. front of the rubber boots off and made.

me wear those. And I lost eight of my 10. toenails in that three weeks marching. like that. >> Three weeks. >> Yeah. We never stopped. We stopped to. eat or something or whatever, but there. was Yeah. Just never stopped. Yeah. And. so I always thought, and Tom did too, were like, are they. just going to take us somewhere, try to. interrogate us and kill us or something? We didn't know. We didn't know really. how primitive they were, you know, and.

so, uh, I was super weak on the march. and I kept getting weaker every day. I. didn't know I had internal injuries. And. my ribs were separated from the front. here. And on my two lower ribs, you. could take and just stick your fingers. through the ribs into my stuff. Mark was. really strong on the march. Tom was much. stronger than me. I was just going. downhill like every hour and I couldn't. figure out what was going on. And uh but. I knew I had that something internally.

screwed up with me. And at one point. like two weeks into the march, I just. laid down. I told Sonia, "You can shoot. me. I can't move." She goes, "What do. you mean?" I said, "I can't move. I. can't I can't do anything. Just shoot. me. I can't do shit." And I couldn't. I. didn't want to stop. There was nothing. I wanted to survive. I physically was. incapable of doing it. I was broken. Those guys built a stretcher for me and. put eight guys on it and they carried me. through the damn mountains for almost. two days, you know, and um I wouldn't know what. kind of injuries I had until I got back.

was rescued and we got, you know, were. taken care of and but um yeah, I had. some pretty severe intestinal and. injuries in my ribs. And then for. comedy, if you want to hear a light. note, right, um, we're all waiting for Tommy J and. Sergeant Cruz to show up, right? We. didn't know that they had been executed. And so they stop at this one spot and. uh, the three of us lay down and the way.

they make a bed is they cut these palm. trees just like little, it's like a, you. know, piece of wood, you know, a stump. They stack it up about two feet high. Then they fill it with dirt and put palm. frrons under it. Then they'll put like a. little, you know, just a a tarp over it. and that's what they sleep and live in. So we got to an old camp that had been. young, but they put Mark and I and Tom. in there and they just lay us down in. there. So they get me and take me down to the. stream and they take my clothes off. I. mean, they left my underwear on and they.

take my clothes off and uh there's like, you know, a dozen gorillas just looking. at us like, "Oh, these are the gringoes, right?" because we're like aliens. And. these two young gorilla girls take their. clothes off and just have their bra and. panties on and they start giving me a. hand bath in this [ __ ] stream. I'm. like, is this like. it was nothing physical, but they're. just cleaning me up. We didn't know that. we're just like pets to take care of and. keep alive until they can trade us, right? But I can hardly walk. And so I'm.

thinking, [ __ ] I bet they're going to. take pictures of this. of them bathing me in stream. I I so I. was just my minds, you know, something. like that. So I go I go back up the hill. and I'm just like, "What the hell? This. is surreal, right? We're two weeks in. the march. We don't know, you know, this. is La La Land.". And Tom's grumpy. And he's I said, "Tom?" I said, "What?" I said, "You're. an old man." I said, "Go down the. stream." He goes, "What?" I said, "A. couple of girls down there, they're just. in their panties and their underwear. They're about 18. They're going to give. you a hand bath. Shut up, motherfucker.".

Like, you know, it's like he know he. didn't know, right? So Mark got a bath and came back up and. Tom the next day. >> he asked me how he looked before the. bath. >> Oh. So the next day Tom's like really? I. said yeah [ __ ]. >> But. I think especially with Americans with. our sense of humor and the worst moments. sometimes you just make a joke, right? >> Yeah. But uh yeah, the death march was. unbelievable. And uh you know, we were going to be.

turned over to. uh a group that was going to take care. of us from there. Well, I call it taking. care of us, right? Just keep us alive. for the next few years. And um but that. was physically the hardest thing that I. ever. put myself through ever. And uh it was I. remember one night we're in a river. It's just. I mean just freezing, right? And uh you.

know we're up in the mountains. and they finally found a pair of. sweatpants, put on me, a t-shirt and. these boots. They put Mark and I in a. rock in the middle of the river and it's. freezing and Mark and I are huddled. together like this just trying to stay. warm all night, you know, and survive. But uh it it. It was. shocking to me how freely they could. move through the jungle. without any, you know, they knew where.

the military was and where it wasn't, you know, and I was thinking, [ __ ]. these guys can go where they want to go. to. But I'm not talking eight or 10 of. us. I'm talking 75 or 80. And um. it just it was. eye opening to see how much freedom or. not freedom I guess uh how much in. control they were of where they were at. you know and there's no finding them.

And the thing that was kind of. disheartening I can't speak for Tom or. Mark but I think the same after a few. days the aircraft were going away. We. knew we were getting deeper and deeper. and we weren't being found. So, we. didn't know. I mean, were they just. going to take it? We thought they were. going to take us somewhere, interrogate. us, right, and then just get rid of us. I We weren't sure what was going on. We. didn't really understand. that there were a group of other. Columbombians that have been ahead of. us. At that point, they already had been. in five years and would be in five and a.

half more. >> Damn. >> You know, >> what was it like going through the. jungle? Was it a Were you guys on a [ __ ]. I bulldoze every square inch of jungle. if I could. >> Um the jungle bites. >> It's not a friendly place. Every tree. has a thorn. Every I mean it's a. difficult environment and um it's tough. cuz it's like this where we were. We're. in the mountains. We weren't down low.

It's hot. It's sticky. You know, it's uh. it's a miserable place. And I'm sure you. know. my wife and I just came back from a trip. in Costa Rica and we rode ATVs up into. some nice jungle for like a little lunch. and all and she says, "How do you feel?". I said, "I'm okay." Now, that would have. wigged me out a few years ago. But, uh, yeah, the jungle's jungle's tough, man. And that was really. our opinion was people said, "Why didn't.

you escape here? Why don't you escape. there?" When we got deep into the basin, the jungle was the real jail, you know? I mean, it wasn't. What do you do when you're hundreds of. miles from nowhere in a basin in the. jungle? You have no no anything. You. don't know where you're at. You don't. have a compass, GPS. You don't have a. squat. Where you going? Even if you get. away, where you going? So Mark and I came up with an idea.

that we would never just at some. inopportune moment if we got a moment to. escape escape. We would only try. something is if we knew our chances were. good or we were near something or we. weren't just going to blow out, you. know. And uh. I think it proved to be the right. choice, but it's it's a harsh environment. Well, especially I mean even with those with. those guys that are growing up and. humping around those mountains in the.

jungle. I mean they're going to get you. I think if we could have got enough. separation. we could cuz it's so vast that we could. have got away from them. But then what. are we going to eat, right? I mean there. was stuff there we could eat but after a. while it make you sick. um. which direction you going to go. You. know, I'd read stories and there were a. couple stories of a couple Colombian. prisoners that had escaped and spent.

weeks and then finally came back cuz I. couldn't find a way out, you know, and. it's not like, you know, I I used to teach land nav and. ncp and all that [ __ ] right? Well, there's no reference. It's overcasted. and cloudy. It's not like I can look. across and find another mountain to hold. a reference point and and I could motor. to that and then get on top of it and do. another one. You can't see where you go. >> Yeah. >> You're going to walk, you know, and so.

um it it was we knew we were up Shitz. Creek, that's for sure. had before this. had you ever thought about what you. would do if something like this happened. >> in a casual manner? I never believed in. the mountainous terrain that we'd. survive a crash. and our program was in the midst of. transitioning to twin engine aircraft. just to make it safer.

But what we were victims of at Southcom. Reconnaissance Systems was our own. success. We take this simple bird. and then we take two simple birds. caravans and we're down there 24/7. So competing intel platforms that come. down for 45 days then go come back a few. months later. that was our backyard. and let's say some other platforms that. we collected with.

um they'd pipe their data back to the. states, get everything redacted, then send it back for us to analyze and. to use. Well, we were only final secret. Our what we collected was you could. disseminate it. So when we came back. that afternoon, I had a target deck that. was processed and ready to be used, right? It wasn't compartmentalized. It. wasn't US eyes only, whatever. And so we.

were a very simple, basic platform that. collected real-time intelligence. So our. mission creep became mission creep. >> Damn. >> And we were also too aggressive. We. pushed it. you know, we wanted to be. that platform and we were lobbying and. they were on the way for twin engine for. King Airs to get there, but we pushed it. too, you know. Um, we had an issue.

that was a mechanical issue and I was. supervising an engine breakdown in the. States at a little site we had and it. was not good. So, I called Tommy on the phone. Tommy. and I had brought the aircraft back, right? And Tommy had just faced an. engine failure where he came back and we. had a canoe. I said, "Tommy, what do we. do? You're the chief pilot.". He goes, "Man, what's sitting in the. hanger next to you?" I said, "The. replacement bird and it's got two. motors." He goes, "Let's keep it going.".

And what I wanted to do was shut down. the bird that was downrange and do an. inspection on the aircraft, which. doesn't look good. You know, on a cont. supposed to produce for your customer, right? And uh everybody wanted to keep. the program going. and um hindsight's 2020, right? But we. we should have never been doing what we. were doing, you know? Should have never. been doing. But you got a bunch of guys.

that are like doing a mission and I. would have paid to do that job, right? I mean, one day we go to Cali. and I get a little target that's totally. different and there's a warehouse in a. warehouse district, but it's not a. warehouse. It's a house. and so a really nice house hidden in a. warehouse district. So, our bird doesn't draw any attention.

It's a hideand plain sight. And so we. have this mission plan and actually. Tommy Janice flew it with me and we. circle and we get some really good. measurements on this house. And the. whole point of getting the measurements. on the house was was there room for a. Blackhawk to set down on top of this. That was the whole purpose, right? Not. an American Colombia. So, a week later, I'm in the in the embassy lunchroom and. my boss Steve walks up and he throws.

their version Sana magazine of Time. He. said, "Good job." And there's our target. deck, right? There's the house and. there's they're disembarking on top of. that [ __ ]. But then you want it sucked on the. bottom of the damn picture is all of our. coordinates, all of our info. It's not. supposed to be let out public [ __ ]. because when it went through the. Colombian pop pipeline, someone in the. Colombian Intel side sold it to the.

magazine, you know. So stupid things you saw. Um. the one of the most heartbreaking things. I ever saw was our drug enforcement. folks. and FBI had informants. with inside the Columbia Intel that. would put themselves at risk. So again, outside of Cali, there was. this neighborhood in the hills.

and it was not nice. You know, it was. kind of it was what you expect of maybe. impoverished area of Latin America, but. there was like a meeting group where. what they call the urbanos, which were. the urban gorilla, they get together and. play soccer and stuff. So, we had um. a friend of mine that was I won't say. which agency he worked for, but he was. he was handling this intel person and we.

had to go out and find their missing. person. Well, it ended up be two of. them. What had happened is they had. given him. uh a pickup truck. and some intel and he and his buddy had. gone to a party where this stuff was. going on. Man, it [ __ ] sucks to remember this. [ __ ]. He uh while he's at the party, some.

people go out to the truck, start. searching the truck. He left his [ __ ]. ID in the truck. So, um the house was on a hill. So, they shot both of them in the head. And. it looked to me like the truck was. halfway on fire, but it didn't burn. They flipped the truck at the beginning. of the neighborhood on a hill upside. down and they hung him off the the tire. if I remember. I'm trying to remember. I. mean, this is 13, 14 years ago. And so.

we get there and the first thing we pick. up is 30 yards of blood just going down. the hill and pulling up at the bottom of. the road there in the neighborhood. And. you're like, and his handler who was in. he was just. sucked, right? you know, and then we. didn't get that story. He didn't once. they did the investigation and find out, but we're just looking at this guy. So, I mean, there's a real price in the drug. wars. This is not, you know, it may not.

be, hey, I'm a soft guy kicking doors. and we're, you know, everything's thrown. down, but there was a continuous price. and we might go on the north coast and. do operations or go to other places, but. um people got killed, you know, and it. was um the Colombian span of Price on. the ground there, you know. So, but to. see that guy, I just remember the blood just I mean it. was like 20 yards maybe down this hill.

and then it was pulled up, you know, and. it was just wow, you know. And so it makes an impact, right? And. you know, I think the thing I would take. away from captivity. um as you see and in your formal job, you saw it too, what people are really. capable of and it's really disgusting, you know. So when you see stuff like. that, that just motivates you to to work.

even harder, you know. But uh you know people pay a deer price. on the front line of the drug war and. what. bothers me personally but it's. you know I don't know who are the large. groups in the US right we know who. controls it down south and people would. always say. you know x amount of cocaine gets to the.

states x amount of cocaine goes here and. goes there. And I'm like, "Yeah, well, if we can't [ __ ] stop it, how. can we count it?". >> Good point. >> How do we If we can't stop it, how do we. count it? And I've always wondered who's on the. other side. Who are the big. distributors? Like, especially in the. Coke side of the world. But then this. was a couple years after our captivity.

if my memory serves me correct. up on the north coast of Colombia. They. they took down one of the largest. distribution networks of cocaine in. history there. None of that [ __ ] went to. the states. It went to [ __ ] Europe. Then it got all then back from Europe. into the States. >> But I was I would always see these. experts that this is what's going on. I'm like, well, wait a minute. We're. trying to stop it. We can't stop it. How. can you count it? Were Were you pulling. these numbers out of your ass to justify.

program needs or money? I get it, but how do you stop it? Semi-ubmersibles, right? When they first. kind of came out, everybody goes, "Oh, there's one or two. It's a it's a. knockoff." No, there's [ __ ] hundreds. of them, right? or we catch some bad. guys from the sandbox that come in. through Venezuela. and they're tagged with the Mexican. cartels. Well, why do they want to get. into Texas? They don't want to get into. Texas to sell drugs. They want to get. into Texas to to to hurt people, right?

You know, chemical weapons, stuff like. that. That's my theory. They don't give a [ __ ] They're not. going to go into El Paso and start a. war. But why are they embedded with the. cartels? Why? I mean, it's pretty open knowledge. You look at Iran and its proxies, what. they do over there on their doorstep. Well, look at the relationship with.

Venezuela. really, you know, and I saw. I can't remember when it was, but I. remember the women from Black Lives. Matter. either they went to Venezuela to meet. with Maduro and Shawn Penn and all these. guys, you know, they're talking about. look at this, you know, Maduro, Maduro, Maduro, you know, and and then it's.

uncovered that they have a plan to. distribute cheap drugs into minority. neighborhoods in the states to. destabilize local political. infrastructure, but you're down there. kissing ass to this person because you. want five minutes of fame that's. destroying your own community. It's part. of their, you know, they fight the long. game. We don't. >> Yeah. See it time and time again with. all these terrorist organizations and. the alliances that go on behind the. scenes. >> What has come through?

Look, I was raised a southern. conservative Democrat. They don't exist. anymore. My parents were Dixierats. They. were conservative educators Democrats. I'm a Republican. I don't see why we should be fighting. over right or wrong or. if you shoot somebody and kill them, should you pay for it? This whole. discussion and fight politically in our. country right now about crime. But I can.

tell you now that border is where it. starts. But nobody goes down to where I. worked to see what's at the other end. or when you're buying cocaine in the. states, do you see the death and. destruction that it causes in other. countries? And I'm not talking about gerilla versus. government forces. I'm talking about. death and destruction on kids, on small. poor people and what it what it does to. them. You know, it's when they say drug war, it is it's a war. It's a very serious. thing and there's very serious.

consequences paid for you know but then. go down and see where the stuff starts. at. just my observation doing the job not. trying to poke somebody in the eye say. you should believe this way you should. this but you know if our borders open. let me ask you a question do you have a. front door in your house. I mean when your little kids are at home. do you lock your door at night or do you. I mean that whole thing for me is. personal because I know what goes on the. other side of that border,

you know, and and I I don't know. And then and I'm. not rooting for anybody to win political. favor over border control. I'm just. saying we need it. Yeah. I think a lot. of people share that sentiment. >> Yeah. >> Let's go back to the camp. >> Okay. So, what was it like after the. 3-we death march? >> They put us, we were fairly stable for.

the first year and a half. They put Mark. and Tom and I into what was an old camp. >> What did it look like? >> Oh, man. So, this old camp was just. rotten. So, think of like a little pole barn. with aluminum roof. Instead of walls, this is where we stayed. This was chain. link fence everywhere. Okay. And it's probably 12t by 20t. What. we did not understand, and there's two.

big poles going down at about 4t tall. That's where you tie your hammock. We. didn't realize till we got locked up. inside this cage, that there had been 20. Colombian police and army hostages in. there years before us. We saw the. writing on the wall. We saw stuff that. they scribbled. behind one door. And I. think this I think this is what caused. Mark his inspiration to carve the chest. pieces was a chest piece stuck in the.

door. So. they take us to this camp. We meet Man. Hoy who's he was basically their their. Bin Laden, right? One of the most wanted. people in the world. He was the military. leader of the FARC, an absolute. assassin. and uh he's all polite to us. and they fix his empanadas and they. said, "Hey, we're going to open a camp. just for you." And they point to Martin. Sombra. You can look up Martine Sra. He just.

died of natural causes here a few weeks. ago in Colombia. He would be a cartoon. character. Terrifying, right? Nails. about this long, whatever. So, they load. us in these pickups, toy Land Cruisers, and take us to this old camp. It's a. middle of day. We're just driving in a. dirt road. I mean, there's no threat. I'm like, "Damn, these guys just move. They got a giant camp with a couple. hundred gorillas and cars and trucks or. trucks everywhere.". So, we get there, Sra sitting on a beach. chair. And he goes, "We have opened all.

of this for you. We're going to we're here to take care. of you." I'm like, "Okay.". And I said, "Well, who's in charge?". Summer goes, "We're all equal here." Oh, [ __ ] We just just right. But we're. we're destroyed. We just want to. get some food and get some rest. So the. first couple nights they stick us in. this big box. They build a bed off the. ground, which when I say a bed with just.

palms cut like poles, like fence posts, put some palm trees on it, put a tarp. over it and a mosquito net, and you lay. in there 24/7. So they took Mark and Tom. out there and left me inside the big box. until mine was just going to get. finished last. Right. We were not allowed to speak to each. other and we actually it was months. before we could. We actually lost our. voices because we couldn't talk and so. they throw in a couple magazines that's. were printed by the FARC, you know, when. they were strong and they're talking.

about the Khi, the exchange, humanitarian exchange, humanitarian. exchange. So the FARC's big hope was, oh, we've never touched Americans. before. Um, now the government's going to. negotiate, right? Which was I don't. think that you know Rumsfeld and Bush. are negotiating. That's that wasn't the. guys you want to talk to, right? And. then the most right-wing president in. years with a rebate, they were like, "Fuck that.". So, we're trying to educate ourselves on.

what's going on, but we're just we're I. mean, it's like walking out to the. grocery store. Somebody hits you in the. head and you wake up and you're bound. and you got you're blindfolded and they. stake you out in the sticks and the. world's cut off and you're trying to. figure out what's going on. So they come and they give us journals. This is a month into it, right? Cuz. we're just sitting there. I mean, we're. counting bugs. We're just I mean we're. you come from a world that we live in. and you're in that in that box and your. mind is just speeding up. So I get sick.

and I'm [ __ ] all over myself. I. can't stop it. And I didn't know if I. had malaria or not or what I had. So Tom and Marker moved out and they put. me back inside this box. It's just chain. link around a wall, put me on a black. piece of plastic and put a mosquito net. over me. But they stop taking me to the. bathroom every hour or so because they. were tired of doing it. And you use the.

bathroom what's called a chunto. They. just dig a a hole in the ground. It's. lengthwise and you squat over it and. kick the dirt in it and keep going. Well, I'm covered like from my belly. button to my knees. I I'm covered in my. own feces. And. I mean, it's not insanity, but you start. when I say you start just figuring out. [ __ ] to do. Well, I look over, I'm. laying there, I look over and I see like. half a dozen roaches just coming to me. because they can smell me, right? So, I.

just start killing cockroaches and. stacking them up and counting them. I just wait for them to get there. It's. all right, [ __ ] Here you go. And stack a cockroach. That's what I did probably for a week. And they finally came in and hung me. upside down. They tied ropes around my. stomach and forced me to drink this [ __ ]. and hung hung my feet up on the wall uh. and would hang me up there for hours. thinking that was going to cure my. stomach.

It's insanity. I mean, I don't know what. else to say. It's just pure insanity. >> What was it? What were you drinking? >> I don't know. Some concoction they came. up with. And uh finally after. I don't know, four or five days um I. started feeling better. But I'm laying. there covering my own feces just. counting roaches trying to keep my mind. busy, you know, and I I'm thinking, what do. you do? Like what did a P do somewhere. in Vietnam or somewhere else? was just.

in a, you know, a 7 by7 on a concrete. floor. You just start daydreaming. You. You want to keep this turned on, right? And just start to try and check out. I don't know how many businesses Mark. and I came up with to run, you know, we. got back to the States, you know, you're. just your mind goes into this mode to. where it's kind of taking you out. And. we would just spend days in there. daydreaming. And for some reason, and I.

don't know why, I had the ability to just sleep like a. cat for hours. So, I just sleep, you. know, wake up for when they fed us and. then that'd be it. And food then was. lentils and rice, maybe some fried yuka, Kool-Aid. They loved Kool-Aid, you know, they use sugar water to power themselves. when they're marching, right? So, there. was always sugar, you know, and. Kool-Aid. But um yeah, luckily my. my uh stomach got better and I was able. to eat. And then they moved us about.

five. We heard chainsaws going right. They were building a more permanent. camp. So they moved us probably maybe a. click away to. three little buildings inside of like a. horse corral if it makes sense. And we. were locked in there at night and uh we. could sit, you know, obviously we're. undercover with guards with guns, but. then we could sit uh outside of those on. they had old plastic chair or something. during the day. And uh it was uh it was.

just we started to kind of get to know. the guards, who was nasty, who wasn't so. nasty, because we were a. we was like something out of a movie to. them. And these are young guys, you. know, men and women, but only the men. guarding us. So we were like this is it. was like being in a zoo but on the other. side, you know, damn. >> And um I remember. some would creep up at night and uh they.

would bring us cigarettes, right? The. boss would bring us cigarettes like we. wanted to smoke. So the guards would. come cuz they wanted cigarettes, you. know, at like midnight or whatever. and. they might bring us a couple pieces of. yuka and we trade them cigarettes, you know, it was just crazy. And in that. camp is where we we got bombed. Um, there must have been, and I'm only. guessing because of the trails and the.

activity, but about I don't know, I'm. going to guess 500 yards away. Must have. been an old camp cuz one night um there. were kafir, jets, then the OB10s, and they came in and bomb the [ __ ] out. of the camp. And that was pretty scary. because you'd hear the you'd hear the. shrapnel from the bombs just ripping. through the leaves and the trees and. Mark is locked in a box. Tom's locked in. a box. I'm locked in a box. They weren't.

letting us out and they're bombing the. [ __ ] out of the camp right next to us. Well, it wasn't like the US with. precision guided weapons. [ __ ] can go. astray. That was pretty terrifying. Scared the [ __ ] out of me. I'll bet. you. know, and um what started scaring me. worse was. how open these guys were to detection, but I was surprised that nobody was. detecting our camp. So, they had a sistern. Anywhere in Latin America, you see black.

tanks, 250, 500 gallons, and people put. them up on a on the roof or something, and they fill them with water, and. that's how you water. So for us inside. this little corral they built this. platform and the platform had a black. sistern filled with water. They'd pump. water, have a little generator, pump. water out of the river to it. Had a. toilet up there on top of it. You're. like 15 foot off the ground or met maybe. 10 foot and a toilet. So you do your. business sitting on a toilet. Hey Tom, hey Mark, what are you doing? Sitting. there and and um but I'm like I saw.

those from my aircraft all the I could. tell you how much water is in. It's just. a heat signature, right? So, if it's. half full, you could tell, right? And it. was out in the middle of nowhere open. and a couple aircraft would be circling. our camp. And uh I'm like, there's no. way they can't see this. There's just. So, what I was scared was they're going. to see it and come back and bomb us. They didn't know we're there or not. But. they never did. They never did. And then.

after that we were moved to a larger. camp where we put in with the. politicians and the Colombian military. and they were separated. It was a big. fenced in area where there was like 20. of them inside like a little cabin that. was built and then you know the seven uh. Colombian politicians and the three of. us in the other side and um as big as it. was it was never found. I'm I'm I just I. mean. I'm just dumbfounded because I knew in.

our aircraft if we got even anywhere in. the vicinity of that we'd have seen it. So I just didn't what's going on. >> You know I mean. something we skipped over is your wife. is back home in the States with twins. Correct. >> She wasn't my wife. She wasn't my wife. Um to be. uh just open honest here um she was a. Colombian flight attendant that I met.

and she uh she ended up pregnant. and so yeah we weren't even married and. it and and my moral compass didn't look. so good because I had a girlfriend in. the states too. You know that wasn't you. know I was wrong what I was doing but. nonetheless that's that's the truth. And. so. I'm think all that's on my mind, right? What am I gonna do? You know, what am I. going to do? And uh I uh I uh it was a.

lot lot. And all you could do is think, right? All you can do is think. And I. remember one day. I was worried about the three of us. because I saw Mark and Tom in this. little corral and they had their plastic. chair that we could sit on. Each got a. plastic chair and they got toothbrushes. and they're just cleaning their chair. cuz they can't there's nothing. It's. like where are we going here? You know, [ __ ] And.

what I understand now, it's almost like decompression in a. sense. You're having to get used to and. cope with your new environment. And. that's a learning process, right? And I think as Americans, we are. used to being control of our environment. and making decisions. There's absolutely. no control. You're a rat in a cage. and you have to make an adjustment. Some. people call it prisoner brain. That.

might be an accurate statement, but there are big changes. Thank God at. the time. um that somebody didn't say, "Hey, you. got 1,950 more days. I wouldn't have want to known that." So, I would say, >> did you have any idea the concept of. time? >> Yeah. Yeah, we had a rough idea of time. >> The guards had watches. They tell you.

what time it is, whatever, you know, but. um. dates, weeks, months, no. We had a rough. idea, but the concept we live on a day. basis here or you live here, whatever. No. No. And the thing for us is we have. no information. We would not get to where somebody had a. radio and some news for. nine more months. Holy [ __ ] man. So, we.

had no idea what the status of our. families was. You know, it would be, let me see, a year into it, a year and a half till. we did our first proof of life. Then we found out Tommy was dead. Sergeant Cruz was dead. You know, we had. news about our families. >> How'd they do the proof of life? >> They took us into a village. and uh there must have been a couple.

hundred far little town. We drove in a. truck. They had us in the back of a. truck, but they took us by river through. the jungle. And I'll never forget the. bridge. And I thought if I ever get out. and I'm back airborne again, this is my. we find this [ __ ] bridge, I'm going. to find this [ __ ] It was over. river. I'd recognize it today. And um. there Enrique Bauttero, who's a liberal. left-wing reporter, had been in the. States trying to contact our families, but then he brings us newspapers, Miami.

Herald and all from the airport in Miami. when he flew back cuz he knew he's going. to film a proof of life with us. Didn't. give us. what a piece of [ __ ] left report. And so. I remember they bring us to this like. just a a jungle kind of cabin, couple. cabins and we see these important people. or people who we knew or you know um and. Bera comes in and talks to us for the. proof of life. But the night before.

Sumber comes in and goes, "Hey, if you. hear airplane tonight, don't worry about. it. It's all good." So he flies in on a. Cessna and lands on a strip bringing. gifts for us out of the airport in Miami. and [ __ ]. >> What? Yeah. Yeah. He's a reporter that's. that works with the FARC. They let him. come into the into the jungle and film. us for political purposes. Yeah. He could have he could have dined. him out and Yeah. Yeah. How about that? How about that? You [ __ ] kidding me?

>> Nope. You know, and we get there and they make. us mashed potatoes and steak and, you. know, still in the jungle, right? And. they're giving us what we want. And we. saw ice for the first time in almost a. year. Here's ice water. Like the [ __ ]. going on? It was just a setup to do the. proof of life. And what do you say? What. do I know about my family? What's going. on? Who's alive? Who's dead? You know, and uh it was just for propaganda. purposes. But sick to me that a reporter has this.

much info and doesn't. >> Have you ever met him? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How did that go? >> I'd kill him if I could. I mean, it's uh Yeah. >> You met him since then? >> No, not after that. Not after the. interview. No, no, no. He actually. wanted to after we got out. I was like, "No, I'm sorry.". >> What would you say to him right now? >> I [ __ ] kill him. >> What's his name? >> Bero. I think it's Jorge Enrique Bero. Yeah.

You know, and he thinks he's doing some. kind of job, but he's a lefty, you know, out communist sympathizer. Um Tanya Neeemire, she's a Dutch girl. and she's I believe she's got a red. notice on her travel. I just talked to. my FBI um supervisor. Basically, they. watch us a few months ago and uh Tanya. was she's Dutch and she taught English. So she came to um. Bogota. and became an urban gorilla.

>> Are you [ __ ] me? >> Nope. Nope. Nope. And joining the. [ __ ] gorilla. And uh Yeah. Yeah. Tanya Nemire. And so I don't know if. she's been able to get out of Colombia. or not because the FBI, we've got a red. notice on her. She can't not travel cuz. she wants to go home, you know, I guess, back to the Netherlands, but she's. living in Colombia. Yeah. I I'd hang her. from a tree. And I remember when we met. her at the Proof of Life and here comes. this woman all dressed clean in like new.

camo and got her sidearm on like she's a. model or something. and her English was. very, very good. Perfect. And so I said, "Uh, what color is your passport?". She was like, "That's funny, isn't it?" I said, "What. color is your passport? I know you're. not Colombian.". What I thought she was was the Cubans. train students, right? And then they. bring them in. So, I thought she might. have been one of the student communists.

out of Cuba that was brought in there, which turned out not to be true. She. just got recruited in Colombia, was a. leftwing sympathizer and joined the. gorilla as she's teaching people English. in Colombia. Nothing, you know, just out. there going to, you know, [ __ ] So, she. was there to interview us in English. she conducted the interview and uh. Monohoy and there's a great video of him. getting bombed and killed. He reads a. pronouncement to the United States of.

America and uh the reason that they're. uh they're keeping us hostage is we. violated Colombian airspace. >> Yeah. >> What kind of questions did they ask you? >> Nothing. They set us up. They told us. Mark that they told us that Tom and um. and uh they got us on a room and there's. other gorillas behind us, right? And. they purposely put a couple small female. gorillas armed behind us to make us look. big and them look, you know, like to.

make them like weak Americans and they. put camo on us, which I didn't want to. wear but and everything else to wear. And um they start filming and she does. the interview and Bero said, "Oh, Mark, here's a message from your mom.". You don't think Mark didn't break down, you know, and then um Oh, here's a Miami. Herald. Oh, your. >> What was the message from his mom? >> Just I love, you know, just a just news, right? And and uh they didn't I didn't. have anything from my family or Tom's.

and and so they they wanted us to give a. message back to our families on camera. You know, they're just using our pain. for so we just said basic stuff. We love. you. We didn't we didn't do anything. more than that. that when handed the. [ __ ] Miami Herald to us, I want to. kill his ass. You know, he knows he's. coming to see us. You're in the stage. trying to get info from our families, so. you're facilitating our captivity by. helping our captors.

What would you do? you know, so and I and I've always had a. special. kind of distaste for Neimar. because she came to a country of her own. free will, educated. and decided to become a terrorist, right? And when the peace talks were. going on in Cuba, she was there and all. this stuff. But she's had a falling out.

with the FARC ever since. And I don't. know what she's doing, but last time I. saw a couple years ago, one of the. liberal universities in Colombia gave. her [ __ ] honorary degree. Wow. That's [ __ ] enraging. That is [ __ ] enraging. >> So people say, "Do you hate him?" I'm. like, "No, because I that would eat me alive. I had. to let it go.". But you know, when I see a guy's in a.

supermax now and you got a American. lawyer saying he's a victim and he's all. this stuff and I'm like a victim when he. supervised what's been done to us. and then you see all these people get. online and they're just I don't know. what they are protesters what you know. I'm like there's a reason he's in a. superax it's not cuz he's a sweetheart. So for me, if you get too wrapped around. the axle, it's just going to drag you to. the bottom, right? You got to step back.

You know, I've I've talked to other. PS from Vietnam cuz I was a hostage. We. weren't I always tell people we're the. longest at one point we're the longest. held hostages in the history of the. United States. We're not the longest. held PS. And there's a difference. I. don't want to take anything away from. the P community, right? you know, and so. I have spoken with some folks who spent. time in the Hanoa Hilton and stuff like.

that, you know, and uh funny how our. minds kind of did the same thing just to. survive. But, uh, you know, it um, you know, we're just lucky to be here, man. You know, I mean, two of us didn't make it after the crash. and then a few of our friends afterwards. died in another crash looking for us in. Colombia. Close friends. >> When did you hear about that? >> Uh, I didn't hear about that until I.

think the proof of life, but I'm not. sure. I mean, we're, you know, we're just. we're in a box. So, >> how did they tell you that your comrades. had been that they assassinated your. comrades? Uh, they just let us know. I I. I think I don't know if it was Bera or. if it was Tanya speaking English to us. Let us know. Oh, yeah. It was her. They. let us know that that um they were dead. But then she also told something. She. goes, "You know, you guys are probably. going to die." I'm looking like, "What.

do you mean?" She goes, "Well, we had. some other folks that were killed during. a rescue and they're planning to rescue. you, but you're you're probably going to. die. You're probably not going home. >> That's what she said. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What would you do? Like, you know, it's beyond insanity, Sean. It's not. like, you know, it's it's you're sitting. here. This [ __ ] is actually going down. This isn't a story or a movie. We're.

here in the middle of it, you know. So, that's when I say the cruelty of people. can be, you know, unimaginable. Yeah, you guys are going to die. I was like, wow. Wow. And then. what did you think when she said that? >> Um, I remember Tom leaning over me and. telling me, you said, "Keith, just.

remember they're filming us right now. I. think they're filming us." I said, "Yeah, okay. It's fine.". Um, I thought the odds are that we might die. in a rescue if it wasn't done by the. right people. But, um, we were so overwhelmed with emotion at. that moment to you're you're over a year. in captivity, whatever, and here's. information on your family, your buddies. are dead. It just all hit us at one. time, right? So, I I was just trying to. process everything.

>> Where did you think your buddies were at. before that before you found out? We. didn't know. Well, maybe they're in. another camp. Maybe they just separated. us. We didn't know. We didn't know. >> Why did they kill him? >> Because they tried to escape. I knew. Tommy's. There was And Tommy would have never. survived captivity. Hell no. He'd have. killed him. You couldn't put Tommy in a. cage. Sorry. You know, I I I I actually his wife just. recently passed and um I was talking to.

one of his sons and uh you know I said. Tommy would have never made it. He he. couldn't have. he could have never been caged. My. belief. >> Why do you say that? >> Just his personality. There was never a second never a second. I know you know and he was my mentor. or. he's the one that got me hired. Um, I. knew as soon as he walked away from that. plane, I know Tommy, he was just looking. at the right moment to pop smoke.

That was his personality, you know? I mean, and uh uh. he would have never let me let me put it. this way. Tommy could do anything he. wanted to do, but he would have never. let himself choose to be a captive. >> You maintain your gear. so it lasts. And. your skin's no different. It's the first. thing exposed to the elements every. single day. Calera Lab is built to help.

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>> When you threw the M4 and the and the. Berettas down the hill, and I know the. the the. Indage guy that was with you was pissed. off. What did the rest of them think? >> Nobody. Nobody was really. It was just. It was just Cruz and I look there was. Are you going to fight a fight you can't. lose? Right. >> Fight a fight you cannot lose. >> No. Fight a fight that you that you're. I'm sorry. >> You know you can't win. >> That you can't win. Are you looking at. surviving or just going out? And I.

wasn't looking at committing suicide. >> I'm I I get it. I'm just curious. >> I wanted to live to fight another day. >> Yeah. And so, um, that was just I looked, Cruz is like, "We got to start shooting." I looked and. I'm like, "No, we don't." I mean, there. were ants everywhere. I I said, "No bad. decisions." And I remember we're at the. bottom where they gave us lemonade. And uh they took my wallet and the only. thing I had in there I wanted to keep. was a picture of my little 10-year-old.

son. And they wouldn't It still makes me. cry now. I said, "Can I have the picture?" No, it's all right. And uh Tommy looks at me. and he goes, "What do you think, Keith?". I said, "We're fucked.". He goes, "What?" I said, "We're [ __ ]. But maybe tomorrow we're not. All we're going to do is [ __ ] live.". I My mindset was Markx was the same way, Tom. All of us, we just wanted to live. So, I didn't care what it took to.

survive. I just I wanted to live. I. mean, it's not complicated. And uh I you have a choice. Step in a. hole and just give up or just keep keep. rolling. And all three of us did that. you know, we have very distinct. personalities, but uh you know, we all did it in our. own way, you know, and so I remember the. three of us being tied up in a box a.

quarter the size of this room that was. just a cage, right? You know, hard to get along that way 24/7, isn't. it? You're going to have some arguments, you know, that's just the way things. are. But we made it out. And uh. >> what kind of stuff are you guys arguing. about? >> Stupid [ __ ]. >> Like what? >> You're in Mark and I had a argument one. night over uh which fighter was better. in World War II. It's like so stupid, right?

It's like you're like this, you're this. No, [ __ ] No, [ __ ] No. [ __ ] you. No. [ __ ] you. You know, like. it's just it's got to let off somewhere, right? And um. I I remember uh we finally got a radio. because we started negotiating with the. guards and you know we had a covert. headphone and we there was a it's really. sick but there was a a a radio station. called Voices of the Sequestros. Voices of the Hostages. And it was run.

out of Bogota. guy did this and on. Sunday nights between 12 and 2, everybody's family would go down there. and leave messages and it was shortwave. So you get messages from your family. We. didn't get any. Not for years, only. occasionally. But how sick that every. every Saturday night or whatever, you go. down at 1:00 in the morning and you. leave a message for your son, your. husband who's been held in your country. for six years. We live for those things. >> [ __ ]. Yeah. That's the political situation,

right? >> What kind of messages were coming in? >> People dying, birthdays, Christmas, love. you, you know, hey, your father died, you know. Um, we had a. police captain. He was dying. and uh the Pope. and his daughter. got on the radio live begging the FARC. to let him go. He had been captured when.

she was like seven. and he was a he was a fighting. [ __ ] But now he was sick and I. don't know what the condition was but. his legs were purple all the way up to. his chest and when we had real pressure. on him us and we were on a death march. He was marching with us. He couldn't. march. So he's crawling through the. jungle with a chain around his neck on. all fours trying to keep up with the. column. So the Colombian soldiers were. going to go [ __ ] nuts. It was too. much for them to see. So they took him.

out of chains and he's sitting on the. ground ne next to me and Mark. And we had in our little bowls, we had five spoonfuls basically of. watery red beans and rice like every 24. hours to sustain us. Then he goes, "Here, you two eat. mine." And we're like, "No, [ __ ] What? What the [ __ ] wrong with you?" He. goes, "I'm dying, man. You guys aren't.

I'm dead. I'm already dead. And he [ __ ] died. Soon later, we were. separated. It wouldn't He was worried. He was just a skeleton. Couldn't just. let him [ __ ] go. He had no political. value. We weren't eating his red beans. and rice. We forced him to eat it, but. he was giving it to us. He knew he was. dead. He knew he was dying. >> Can you hear his daughter on the radio? Please, can you just let my father go? And the pope the pope himself asked.

That's crimes against humanity. You. think? So you see this stuff and it's like. mercy on you [ __ ]. You know, >> when you got to the final camp. where they had the the the. politicals. >> Yeah. What a welcome that was. >> So.

there's a big fixed fixed fenced in area. with a fence between it living on one. side for the soldiers and the police and. living for the seven politicians. So, we get there by boat and they bring. us up and I remember as we're walking. up, we see all the Colombian police. coming up, right? And they were playing. soccer. Little soccer ball. That's all I. did all day long inside a [ __ ] cage. And Mark goes, "Look at the chains." So,

outside the gate to get into each side. was a rack. And these chains are not. like something you have a dog on. I. mean, these are big, heavy chains. Chains and locks. Chains and locks. Chains and locks. change and lock. I was going to bring it to show you, but. I don't want to lose it anywhere on an. airline flight, but I have my lock that. was around my neck and it's a paper. weight on my desk. And so I'll send you a picture of it. But um.

I was like, "Fuck chains." Mark spotted. them first. He goes, "Those are for us, dude." I was like, "Fuck." So they tour. us around the little walkway and all the. Colombian soldiers come running up to. the gate, right? One guy in particular, his hair was all the way down to his. calf. He had not cut his hair since he'd. been captured. And he says to us in broken broken. English, "I'm glad you're here, but I'm not glad. you're here." I said, "Why?" He said,

"Because Americans never leave their. people behind. So if you're here, they're going to find us.". Kind of poignant, wouldn't it? It' take a few years, but it happened. You know, so they did not want to be. separated from us. I would have been the same way, you. know. I'd have been the same way. But uh. yeah, we were in that camp for gosh nine. months or so. I might be off by a month. or two before we were moved and split up.

because the pressure from the military. just got too much. >> What kind of pressure? >> Just presence on the ground cutting off. routes on, you know, the rivers were. like a road, right? So there's a there's. a video on YouTube of these three. gorillas and kyukas which are their. aluminum canoes with a 40 horse motor on. the back and they they just turn they. got supplies they're bringing to a camp. and they uh run into Colombian army. sitting on the river and it was a.

massacre man. They I mean they just it. was a massacre. What started to happen. was. the Colombia military started doing more. permanent operations. Usually they go. into an area for 45 days or 90 days and. they leave. Well, now they were moving. in the areas and we ain't going over. We're here for 6 months, right? But it. upsets the logistics network for the. gorilla who need beans and bullets and. rice and you know you need cotex pads. for women and unifor like you break up.

their ability to live comfortably and. they started pushing. Now, I don't know. if that was pushed by our people, but. Plan Colombia changed a lot because it. put the money and the horsepower behind. the Colombian army to do things. But I. think. that we, the three of us, are one of the. big factors that everybody got rescued. And it's not because Keith and Mark and. Tom were politically important people.

The moment you took the three gorillas. or you took the three Americans hostage, you opened up the US's ability to work. against the gorilla directly. Cuz under. Plan Colombia, we couldn't, right? I saw. guerilla all the time. I couldn't do. anything except report it when I got. back. And I told the bosses, I said, "You guys [ __ ] up." I said, "You gave. president, your president that you hate. so much. You gave him the biggest gift. in the world. You captured us. Now we. can help you guys freely." And that's. what we did. That's what we did. It was a total.

miscalculation on their part. If it. would have been me and I was running the. FARC, I would have handd delivered us. freshly shaved and showered with some. extra cash in our pocket to go home to. Disney World right to the embassy steps. and said, "Sorry, I'm not [ __ ] with. you.". Intelligence side, militarily, it was it. was the worst mistake they could have. made. Because when you start flipping rocks. looking for us, you find other things, you know, and and that's what happened. >> How many camps did you wind up in? [ __ ].

I can't count them. Okay, I'll count the. main camps. First one, second one, third. one, there was another one, maybe four. main camps. A camp after that was just a. hammock, mosquito net, and a tarp over your head. We're just on the move. >> And how long was it before you guys. could talk to each other? >> Oh, by the time we got to the the. politicians and all, we were we were. talking then. >> How how long had that been? >> Seven months, maybe. Eight months.

>> Seven months. >> Eight months. Yeah. >> Seven months of no talking. >> Pretty much. >> nothing. >> I could be off Mark's memory is way. better than mine. I He always goes no, you know. But yeah, we lost our voices. basically. And you know, I uh. there were frustrating things too, like. for poor Tom. Okay, this is what sucked. Tom spoke fluent Spanish. We didn't. So Tom was a translator 24/7. We got to get him to ask for stupid [ __ ]. for these guys, which put more stress on.

him, right? You know, it was it was it. was pretty evil. And when we got to the. camp with the politicians, that was even. worse cuz they thought the one. politician said, "Please don't let those. nasty Americans in here." One. [ __ ]. Oh, they sleep with [ __ ]. We sleep with [ __ ] You're coming. politician. You haven't slept with a. [ __ ] Do you know what goes on? It's. good. I was like, but there was just.

this arrogance. This arrogance. that no, we don't want them in here. They didn't want to share any space. They wanted us out in the mud instead of. saying space inside there. Talk about a class system. That's the way they treat their own. people. >> Well, they have it. >> And I remember. >> class system down there. >> I remember old Lucho is senator senator, right? You know, one day we're sitting. there in the compound and there's a.

table. So, Consuelo was a congressman. had to listen to her husband die on the. radio. And Big Cat, we nicknamed him Big. Cat. He's this big dude and he's heavy, but he moved like like smoke. Just a. joke. So, we just named him Big Cat. So, he's kind of trying to talk to me. one day and he's feeling me out to see. like, you know, do I have any money or what's. it like in the States? And he's like, do. you have a boat? And I'm like, yeah, I. got a boat. He said, can you draw me a. picture of it? So, I drew a picture of. this [ __ ] giant like, you know,

Viking sportfish. And I watched Canuela. She knew I was. sucking them down. Just you. The hook. was going. The hook was going. And they. care about Platika money and what's your. last name? And so, uh, Big Cat goes, "Holy shit." And he runs into the little. hooch and he shows Lucha what's going. on. And Lucha goes, "Keith, you know what?". He goes, "What does American contractor. make?" I said, "A whole lot more than a. Colombian senator." That's [ __ ].

you [ __ ] dick. You know, but that's how. they judge people, right? And some. people did stuff in captivity and said, "Oh, I was in captivity. It caused me to do. those things." [ __ ] You find out. who you really are in captivity. It's. like peeling that onion layer back. You. You find out who you are. And I remember. um they would bring bowls. This camp we. actually could sometimes get like.

tomatoes and onions. They bring a big. bowl of like cut tomatoes and onions and. maybe some yuca and a big bowl of rice. and you know a bowl of lentils which I. still love. Ate them. I love lentils. man. So um we get into a line the dirt. bag Americans right? We're not. politicians or any stuff. And so um. if Mark and I are there we're like okay. just take what you need right? We get. there everything's gone. We're all. living in a box together, right? And so.

finally the gorilla put a top stop to. that and said, "Hey, [ __ ] that." And one. of us would dish out the food so we. could do it fairly. And they take couple. of the politicians would take vegetables. and I'll not even eat them. Let them. rot. We're starving. Well, I need those. I'm different. I thought we're all human beings here. So it was very disgusting. You know, some of the elitist what you'd see them. do. Now I said, "No, I know I kidnapped. your ass." you know, but uh. disappointing too in humanity.

You think in something like that we'd. all kind of bond up. No, >> no [ __ ]. >> No, I never would have thought that. I. >> I don't want to sit here and like. disparage him personally or whatever cuz. I've said some very nasty [ __ ] about one. of them in particular, but it's like, hey, what's wrong with you? You know, and. that's where one of them was pregnant. That's where I was going next. And how she stayed sane,

what she went through. I mean, we got into the If you want to. ask me the question, set it up. But, you. know, we got into that camp and there's. a few women there, right? And so, Clara. was an attorney and she was working on. Ingger Benton Court's presidential. election. And then you had another woman. there, Consuela, who was next to us. We. called her big mama, but she just like. is she talked to Mark and I was very.

kind like we she she had to listen to. her husband die on the radio or her. daughters tell your dad's dying and then. you know another woman, one of the. senators. So, um Claire is a little eclectic. She's a little different, right? But she. was she was a decent person. And Mark. goes, "Hey man, take a look at her." I'm. like, "What?" He goes, "Look." And she. had sweats on. She had that little egg. shape. She's a very small, petite woman. Marcus, I bet she's pregnant. I said, "You think so, man?" He said, "Yeah, she's pregnant." Mark saw it first. And.

so, um, as it became obvious she was. pregnant, she got no care, no anything. I think. her prenatal care was an extra box of. crackers and some [ __ ] canned milk. And um. I remember. you know she was taken hostage with. Ingred Bettinor right and uh. just trying to protect reputation.

Bettin court's like oh no no no no there. were some other hostages civilians and. they had a rel she slept with a gorilla. She was just trying to get free she. thought if I get pregnant they got to. let me go. [ __ ] no they don't. And so so they didn't rape her? >> No, it was a plan. No, no, it was a. plan. That wouldn't have been allowed. Not allowed at all. Not giving the credit, but that wouldn't. allow. So, um, they take her out when she's about to. deliver, but she's not delivering.

And so, um, one night we hear a baby. screaming in the [ __ ] camp. Now, of course, the women that are with. us are either grandmothers or moms or. they're, you know, their radar's up. like 3 days later, maybe I could be off. four or five days and we would hear the. baby screaming. Um, they bring the baby back with Claire. into the baby for into the camp, right?

And the baby is wrapped up from head to. toe. And. they gave it to us. Well, here's how Clara gave birth. They got a guy who's supposedly the. medic that's never had medical training. in his life, just self-taught guy of a. book. They shoot her with morph. morphine, stick her on a [ __ ] table, and they cut her guts open and try to. get the baby out. Holy [ __ ] I got to. give a woman strength. You got to get. whatever, man. you got to give. So, um,

in trying to get the baby out, Milton, who would later take over for us, never. spent a day in a school or anything, broke the baby's arm in half trying to. get around her stomach. So, when they bring the baby back to us, the baby's drugged up and the arms. wrapped. Emmanuel is what Clara named him. how. Clara stayed sane with that.

I give her kudos. And so Clara, they eventually we couldn't stop the. baby from crying. And Mark goes, I think. they're drugging the baby up. Mark was. pretty onto it. There's a reason that he. was an anti- analyst. He you know, I was. pretty good, but he he he's drugging the. baby up. So they took the baby from. Clara. So here's Clara laying in a bunk. next to me, just hard wood. When I say. bunk, it's just wood pallets, right? And. the baby's crying at night and she go.

call his name at the fence. Amen. What? Amen. Well, and then you see another gorilla girl. carrying your baby when we're marching. and leaving and you're sitting there on. the ground and they won't even let you. touch the baby. and you [ __ ] stay sane. Give that. woman credit. We didn't agree on a lot. of things, but. give her credit. >> They cut her. They cut her. They. >> did a C-section on a table in the. [ __ ] jungle.

>> And when they sewed her up, it was like. this old Oh my god. And she survived. I got to say, tough, man. She survived. And here was the worst thing or no, the. best thing. They went and gave the baby. When they. separated Clara from the baby, they gave. the baby to some campinos that were FARC. sympathizers. You know what the. campasinos did? Straight to the [ __ ]. government and handed the kid over. So.

the kid got care, got everything. And a little while later on the radio. and all the government's talking about, hey, a man, well, they don't even know. that the kids do the government care. You know, here's what we did for the. kid. He's in good shape. And the. president comes out, yeah, he's in good. shape. We've had him. We've had him for. a [ __ ] year. So mud on the face of. the leadership, right? And they released. her on just like trying to gain some. Yeah. But they released Clara. But I. don't care, you know, I thought Claire. was a little odd and a little different,

but she was an attorney. And uh but to. see a woman go through that, I got I got. a lot of respect for her, man. Got a lot. of respect for that, you know. And uh. >> How long was the baby in there before. they gave it away? I think that once. they separated the baby with Clara, I. think from what I maybe months until. that couple got out and turned it into. the government, which was a right. I. mean, they did. They might have got a. reward or I don't know. But Amanuel.

Well, I haven't heard in a few years, but after we're freed, he's with his. mom. He's healthy. They're living. together. He's okay, right? Got fixed. I. mean, so a happy ending. But that's what animals are. And they're. they're animals. You know, so for me, just sitting there. watching that, you know, the pain that. that person would go through was just. unbelievable. More disgusting stuff that people are.

capable of. But how could you do that to. a baby, right? You know, I mean, so for us, another one of the Patreon folks had a. question, the initial setup out there. about what is captivity like in the. jungle with the FARC. The best way I can. say it is Groundhog Day for 5 and a half. years or 10 years, no matter how long. you're there. It's all green. You're. going to eat rice, lentils, lentils, rice, maybe some fish if they catch them.

in the river. Hopefully, a little fried. yuka. Okay. And you're just gonna move. from spot to spot to spot to spot. hiding. That's all you do. And you can. never see more than 20 or 30 yards. unless you're on the move and you see. something. It's Groundhog Day. It's just. what is going to come up next? You know, what problem is going to come up next? You know, we were being moved. and uh. my company makes I retired from I have. to say Northrup did the right thing for.

the families. Northrman. I can't say. enough about what they did for the. families while we were gone. But um what did they do for the. families? >> A good example, my son said to me, he. said, "Dad, um you want to you want to know how to. tell what size corporate jet you're on?". I said, "What's that?" He said, "The. size of the flat screen TV." Making a. joke. But they took care of the. families. They paid us, which they. didn't have to do. The government and. Long Shoreman Zach could have come in. and paid it. said, "No, they're going to.

get full pay. They have their jobs.". They had a family service person that. would come and visit with each family. regularly, update us politically. I. mean, they did what they did all that. they could do. And they could have cut. us loose. Their government was like, "Well, we'll take this over." And. they're like, "No, no, no. They're our. employees. We're going to do right by. then." So, I have to give them credit. You know, they did right by us. And. I remember, you know, we're on the run one day and.

this is getting close to the end to the. rescue, maybe a year out, maybe less. And so this guy, we're sitting there on. the side of the damn river and we're. just going down a river. We're running. though. We know there's pressure on us. And uh. this guy walks up with this tube, you know, and he said, "The comedons and. wants to know what this is." Well, it's. a It's a camera system that sits on the. ground. You guys install on places. Well, this one was called Scorpion and.

it's made by my company proudly so. Right. So, I was like, "Fuck, where'd. you get that?" So, he's trying to take. it off. And I said, "Don't do that." He goes, "Why?" I said, "Cuz it's blow it's. pressurized.". And he said, "Well, will you explain. this to us?" I said, "Yeah, can we have. some coffee?". Ball of trade, but this is one of our. little ground sensors, right? I mean, you can just Google it on It's nothing. It's no big classified system, but. I was thinking, "Fuck, our people are. here." And we had just heard on the.

radio and the US government admitted. that that that. some of your folks in seventh group were. on the ground with the Colombians. I was like, "Shit, they're finally. [ __ ] here." So, there's a GPS antenna. that goes with it or whatever. The office is there and he's like, "Can. I can I plug this into my GPS? Will it. make it better?" I said, "No.". And he goes, "This is one of your. cameras." I didn't say it's one in North. that we made her. I said, "Yeah, it's. it's a camera system." He said, "Well,

how many do you guys have?" You know, I. said, "Thousands.". I was trying to Right. But essentially. what happened was, but I found out later that the Colombian. team had put this camera in. and I will leave. You don't just have one camera. I'll. just leave it that way. You're walking. into a a net of [ __ ] But was [ __ ] up. This camera was still white. They didn't.

even [ __ ] paint it green or black or. anything. And so it's buried in the. riverside on some leaves. And the. gorilla goes to take a piss and he's. paint on. I like [ __ ]. So Gothas is looking at me. He goes, "Keith, is this good?" I said, "Not for you. What do you want me to tell you?" I. mean, I've been with him for years. I. mean, he he says, "Okay." So, they gave. it to a Kauka to take to the bosses. I. learned later that Kauka got whacked and.

they got the camera back, but it's, you. know, it's a just a it's a ground. sensor. It's no big top secret deal. really. Employment stuff is stuff that. I'd never talk about, but it's, you. know, but I was like, "Fucking hey, [ __ ] Someone's here." And that. made them nervous. because the Colombians would never. operate in small teams. You know, you. know, our doctrine being a little bit. different. Everybody was like, "Holy.". And I as soon as I got back, I told. everybody what it was,

you know, and so um. there were some mistakes made and trying. to get the stuff, but and that camera. actually didn't even get good pictures. of us and we all passed by it. So, it's. even better that they found it because. the the the psychological impact on the. gorilla was the boss was like, "Oh [ __ ]. they're in our backyard. They're [ __ ] here." And we were like, I had a Woody dude. I was just like, "Hell yeah.". >> How many years in was that?

>> Four and a half. >> Over four and a half years. >> Yeah. About a year before we got out. Yeah. >> What kept you going? >> Just want to get home. Yeah. All three of us. We just want to get. home. Maybe for different reasons. I. just I'm I wasn't dying there. That's. just that I I look, I love my family. I. miss my family and things like that. And. you would do whatever you can to get. back for that. But me, my drive was I. felt defeated dying there. I don't know.

if that makes sense, but that's the only. way I can, you know, put it. You know, obviously you want to see your kids, right? I didn't know if my dad my dad. and I had kind of a rough relationship. and weren't on good speaking terms like. we should be, just stupid arguments, right? I like, is my dad still alive? You know, you don't know anything. I just wanted to get home, Sean. You. know, and uh everybody has their own. personal drive. I think um.

you know, I I think I just think we're different. Look around this room. Look at this. country. I just I just think we're. different. I just want to get back to. this. I didn't care. I didn't care if I. was working somewhere, hauling wood at a. construction site, living in an old beat. up trailer. I just want to get home and. have some ice. It's It was just I'm not [ __ ] dying. here. >> That's like to coach each other. Oh, we.

we would both be up and down. One. somebody's strong one day, somebody's. weak the other day. Sometimes, you know, Mark's strong, I'm down. He's like, "No, bro. No, bro. Tom, we called him the k. command." I said, "Tom, you know, your. your jokes were so bad before he got. captured. took his four years in the. jungle start laughing at your dumbass. jokes, you know, you know, [ __ ] and. then we figured out that Tom's really. funny. and you've heard every story that you. can tell when you're face to face locked. up with somebody, right? So, there's.

nothing new, you know? So, you know, everybody had a. drive to get home. That was it. And and. uh and I'm not necessarily going to say. it was just their loved ones. There was. just something amongst the three of us. that we ain't we're not digging a hole. here. I don't care. We're going one more. day, you know, and that was dayto-day. That's the way you get out of it. Any torture? Um, so what do you call torture? Planned.

torture like our PW went through in. Vietnam? No. But I remember like one day. I'm sliding into the river and through. my boots all these spines. They're about. 2 inches long going to my bed. There's. like seven or eight of them embedded in. my bed. So the medic there was a real. [ __ ] What they called their medic. was [ __ ] with me when he take the. spines out of my toes and my feet and. all just just making it they're like. blades on them just making it you know. just making it hurt on purpose [ __ ] like.

that. But I think torture comes in many. ways. It's not necessarily breaking. somebody's hands or hooking a battery up. to them like in the movies or something. or, you know, torture is denial of. basic, you know, human needs. >> Going 5 years, >> right? Torture is no food, no medical. care. You know, there's a psychological. component. >> I guess I've been interrogation type. torture. >> No, they never they weren't they didn't.

give a [ __ ] about what we knew. We were. just and Tom said it. Tom said it. perfectly. He said, "We're just hanging. meat. They don't want anything from us. We're just a commodity." And that's all. we were. I would have thought, like I told one of the commonant days, I'm like, "You think we didn't see you. all the time? They wouldn't believe me. We could be over you and I just have one. push of the satcom and I could report. live position, hit it with a laser, and. give away your coordinates." I wasn't. allowed to do that. We were on a plan.

We couldn't do that. We couldn't fight. against the gorilla directly. We were. against drug targets. And the moment. they captured us, that rule handcuffs. were off. They didn't believe it. I've seen them a million times. No, not. a million. That's exact. But we saw them. frequently. And and and I really didn't. realize until captivity some of the. stuff we saw that we didn't think was. gorilla was gorilla activity. >> Like what? Um,

I can tell you what a kauka, which is a. big aluminum canoe, you'd see it, the. way they're dressed, you thought, "Oh, that's a couple campasinos." Nope. Nope. Those are gorillas dressed like. campinos. I can tell by the way the boat. is, what they've got in it, what they're. hauling. You could looked a little. closer out. Especially the area where. you're at, they're the only ones. operating there. So. sad story. was I think it was four or five. fishermen were murdered because of us. They saw us. So.

>> did you see it? >> No. Um. one of I would say the most intimidating. gorillas I ever saw hands down was. Hentiel. Hentiel Dwarte. Supposedly, he was killed about 10. months ago. Mark and I are wondering if. it was fake. He was part of the peace process in in. uh in Cuba, but then went back to the. jungle. He didn't agree with what was. going on. He left Cuba to go back to the.

jungle to talk some guys in some other. leaders. Hey, quit [ __ ] around. Get a. part of the peace process. And he just. stayed with them. But we meet Dwarte one. morning. We're all uncovered just in. hammocks tied to trees right next to a. river. and they're going to move us. So, uh, they put us in a boat. It was. like a runabout, some weird, you know, just but it had like four benches in it, 200 horse motor on it. And they put me. right behind Dwarte and Mark right. behind Dwarte. And then Tom was next to.

us. And I look over there and the whole. [ __ ] floor there must have been a. dozen RPGs. Their boots are on top of. them. couple M60s that I remember ammo. and I'm like [ __ ] I didn't know who this. guy was was but he had a presence about. him. I'm sure you've seen guys that you. know are serious guys. There's no and he. was one of those. So he was joking. around and kind of laughing. and he took us and dropped us off at. this spot on the river which is.

basically the island felt like it was. floating. We're just going to be there. for a few days. So, a few nights later, they pick us up at night and they're. running us down a river. We're in the same boat that was his. boat, but there's nothing in it. It's. just some junior guys moving us. They're. just moving us to more permanent camp. Well, somebody yells, "Helicopter, helicopter, helicopter." And we look. behind us in the jungle, man. There's no. ambient light. You're not around a city. or town, right? It was a bright full moon, but it looked.

like a [ __ ] spotlight from a. helicopter. It was unbelievably bright. And. the guy in that was driving just beaches. the uh boat in front of this fisherman's. little shack. and they take us out of the shack really. quick and the fisherman walk out and. they see us face to face. They hide us behind the shack and. everybody goes, "No, it's the freaking. moon. It's not a helicopter.". We get back in the boat and everybody's. looking at everybody and the fisherman.

are two feet from me looking at me. I'm. like, "Hey, amigo." You know, we get in. the boat. and uh another fisherman comes up in a. little canoe. and they're saying, "Well, the army's. here. The army cuz they're questioning. where's the army?" They, you know, they're trying to avoid the army. So, they take us to this little place that. like a concrete boat ramp in the jungle. on like a little field but had, you. know, canopy over it. And they put us. there. Three days later on the news on that.

river. It's live. Five fishermen executed by the FARC. And so I look at Big Head, who was one. of our guards. We nicknamed all the. guards. He had a Google head on. He. goes, "Yeah, I know.". Big Head didn't feel good about it. But. they they killed him because they saw. us. [ __ ]. >> Did you develop relationships with the. guards? >> Yeah. How can you How can you We You and I can. hate each other and they can chain you.

to that chair and chain me to this. chair. At some point, we're going to. start talking, >> right? Do we have Stockholm syndrome? No. But. when you got a guard that's like 17. years old or 18 years old and he's with. you for years and you watch him grow up, right, you're going to develop some type. of relationship. Our theory was. if we could treat them with respect, number one, we'd stay out of chains, which didn't work. But maybe maybe that.

would buy us a second or two of. hesitation for them killing us if a. disembark came there trying to get us. out and a rescue. That was our theory. And so. a few of the guards. um secretly secretly. um. apologized for us being there, but said, "Hey, this is it's not in our control, right?" But we were together for years.

So, hey, if we had extra smokes, cuz I. didn't smoke, but I take the smokes. cigar all the time. Pass it off to the. guard. Well, if the guard's girlfriend. is small, take 10 pounds of her rice and. sugar, put it in your rrook, he's sneaking you in leftover food at 1. in the morning when he's on guard duty. You know, just basic stuff. And I. remember one of them that got killed, he. went looking for food. His name was. Mono. Little, you know, if you're dark,

they call you negro. If you're. light-kinned, they call you Mono. It's. just a Latin culture. It's not a racist. thing or whatever. And Mono got killed. and he was walking with one of the bad. guys, Roelio. And I have to admit, I. felt a little like, damn, Mono, you. could have been cuz he could have been. something different, right? But I. remember one night he comes in, he. sneaks in. This was a If you would have. caught sneaking in, man, his it would. have been his ass. He brought Mark and. Tom and I some sausages. He goes, "This. is all I can do, guys." And he said, "If. you heard that I said something bad in.

our little communal meeting, if I said. something bad about you guys, will I. have to?". He was risking his ass to give us food. or sneak us a radio or batteries for a. radio so we could hear the news. You. can't have a little empathy for that. He's never going anywhere. We get. rescued or not, he's there for life. right there. He's never going anywhere. So, you know, they were very curious about. the outside world. So, we would we would tell them stories.

They're like little kids. And uh I. remember um one of them was at Fort. Campbell when the her or the tornado. came through and we lost like half a. dozen Apaches or something. And so the. guy goes, "Man, all your helicopters are. gone." I said, "We have more than six. helicopters.". Right? But their concept was not. they just didn't understand world. >> Tom came up with a [ __ ] genius move.

So there was a there was a. reward for us, each one of us, millions. of dollars. So one night, Big Head says to us, he. goes, "Hey man, if I can get you out, would you manage my money for me? I can. like. I don't know what $5 million looks. like.". But but he was serious. He was like, "Could you could you help me with that?".

We're like, "Bigghhead, if you get us. out, yeah, we'll help you with the. money." And uh but he was dead serious. It was just like a business here, right? So Tom realized, we knew it, but Tom. came up with this genius thing. He. starts drawing in his book. He drew like 10 pages of just cows, little bitty cows, 10 pages of cars, then a few pages of hot women, right? Trying to go, you see all this big head? That's what you get with this money.

Boom. They got it. And and um so we thought, oh, we'd be. big heads money manager, right? So I. will never forget I'm giving a debrief. and this is political correctness gone. [ __ ] just stupid. And there are two women from the agency. and one was a handoff from England. working with you. It's like a you know a. trade. And so I'm telling the story. about what Tom wrote. She gets pissed.

off cuz I mentioned the women, the Tom. drew women and you could have women, right? She just gets all offended. I'm. like, the [ __ ] I'm not putting women. down. Tom figured out a way to connect. with these people, right? And what do. you think a 19-year-old guard wants? I. can tell you what he wants. He's been in. the jungle by himself for years, hasn't. had a date, right? But I thought Tom's. idea and they were furious at a. briefing. >> Are you serious? >> Dead serious. Dead serious. Dead.

serious. I couldn't make that [ __ ] up. But I thought what a genius idea. You. know, he drew boats. You know, he drew cows, women, trucks. But I thought that was pretty. >> Yeah. >> heads up, right? But they don't know anything. They asked us one time. This was really. when I knew one of the guys that I have. a distaste for only because of his. stupidity, but he was like a recruiter.

So he would go out in the countryside. and he would spread the communist word. and recruit these young people in. Right. So um one time he's sitting there and he. goes, "Hey, we want to know about your. special forces.". And. well, what do you mean you want to know. about our special forces? We need to. know something about your special. forces. Yeah. Did your special forces. people teach Kiana Reeves those moves in. the Matrix so we can't shoot him? >> I tell Kiana Reeves.

>> I know that. But in the movie when he's. going like this and the bullets are. going past him. >> They really [ __ ] thought that he was. serious. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> What? I'm not bullshitting. Ask if you. get me Mark or Tom. We're like, are you. [ __ ] me now? Not all were that. ignorant, but that was it. I mean, that's what you're dealing with. So, I would say now 15 16 years later, it's not like that, but they were still.

pretty primitive. And uh it was. I came up with a torture though. I came. up with a torture for Martin Summer, the. ignorant gorilla guy. Martine comes to. give us a a pep talk one day in front of. the other guards and he wants to impress. him and he's talking about riding in a. box. Like what riding in a box? Well, he just. built a box over us. It's barely enough. for three guys to lay down in which was.

bob wire and a and a chainlink fence. And he said it was to protect us from. the leopards. It was for our own. protection. So he sits down. tells us a. story about he was in Bogota or I don't. know it was Bogota one of the cities one. time he got to ride in a box and all his. little minions around him I'm like tell. us about the box tell us about the box. he said yeah we went in the building we. just push a button we go up we get up. and then we're on top of the building. it's a [ __ ] elevator. wow.

sounds like Afghanistan. >> I'm just saying you don't know. >> we assume assume that somebody else uses. our logic. That's our first mistake. That's our first mistake. So, we didn't. really understand I don't think. I don't think that uh. we really understood the gorilla like we. should have. I think we do now, but.

unless we're going to gauge against them. directly, what I mean, what would the. You guys were planning stuff a little. bit. What I mean, how would you do that? Were you monitored all the time? >> So, here's what I thought was our hope. one time. So, one of the guys comes to us and he's. got a little handheld GPS, a little. Garmin, and uh he also has a radio. And so, he goes,

"I got an idea." Yeah, it was big head. actually. He said, um, when we have our communal. center, which you know, every night they. get together and do their little. cultural hour and talk, you know, it's. brainwashing, right? He said, I'll get. weapons and we'll kill everybody here. and I've got this ready GPS and we can. leave. And I'm like, how many people. all armed are in the thing? He said,

there about 30 down there arm. I said, "Okay, so we get He said, "I get two. AKs. We'll just kill them all. Do you really think that we can walk. down there with 30 armed [ __ ]. and just kill them all in two seconds. and walk out of here and there's other. camps around us, right, that they're going to hear the. shooting?" I'm like, "Hell no." Mark and. I look at that's not a good idea. That's. not It's not like we're on a mountain. with five people and we could just shoot.

them and be dead. We're surrounded by. there's other, you know. >> Yeah. >> And like big head, you got to come up. with a better idea. So I said, "Here's. my idea.". And Mark, I think I don't want to take. credit cuz Mark and I I said, "We get. the radio and the GPS. We don't go towards town. We do. We go. deep and we go high. and we'll get on the radio because. they're going to think we're going to. town and we don't kill anybody.". one night when you're on guard duty, we're just gone. How about we do that?

Because that way if we get caught, we're. not going to get executed ourselves. I. didn't think it was possible. I mean, do. you really think it's possible for a. couple guys in that situation to go into. about 30 gorillas that are armed and. just kill them all and get away. smoothly? >> I think it depends on who you're with. Well, like I'm saying, but with all. those camps around, >> right? So, I said, "Why do we have to. kill anybody? Why attract attention? Why.

don't we just disappear? There's a little confusion there." But. then he didn't want to uh he he he. backed out on that, you know. Then they come by one day and. they say, "Hey, why are you Americans down here flying. around?" I said, "What do you mean?" All. these helicopters are manned by. Americans cuz they're speaking on the. radio in English. I'm like, it's not. Americans. Said they're they're they're doing spray. operations and they're talking to.

different aircraft. Well, the number one. language is English. Even here, it's not. Spanish, right? But they thought it's. Americans over them. No, it was. Colombian pilots in a spray package. communicating back and forth in in. English. So, just strange stuff. Sean, out there. At what point did they present you with. the M4 that you had tossed? >> They never prevent presented it. We went. to Miami and were in there. >> I don't mean them. I mean the gorillas. >> Oh, so.

this had to be a few months into. captivity. were being moved. and uh this guy rides up with the with. the ponies and he's on it and he's got. the M4 and he goes, "You recognize. this?" It's like, "Oh, fuck." He's like, "Thank you. I'm going to kill your guys. when they come.". So, he was carrying it, you know, and uh. then. they were asking about horses and we.

were each getting on a horse. So, I had. horses. I I was making fun of being a. pony, not a horse. And you could the guy. had a sense of humor, right? But he. wanted to talk to us. He wanted to. engage cuz we're like this oddity, right? They've never met Americans. before. And so I got up on the on the horse and. he goes, I said, "Man, this is not magic. what you guys do.". I said, "Everything you do in the. jungle, you could teach us in two or. three weeks." I said, "What we do in the. outside world, you couldn't do it in. years.".

You know, they're very simple. It's not. a, you know, so. I don't know, you know, but uh to see. the M4 in the evidence room Miami, that. was especially with a hole in it, that. was nice. >> We'll get to that. >> Yeah. >> At the rescue. >> Yeah. >> I want you to talk about Mark and his. carbs, too. >> Oh my god. And now Mark's he's he's all. super fit now. >> You going to do that now or later for. Mark? >> Let's do it now. So, uh,

we're starving in and what we did to. keep just if you stop, you're rot, right? So, we would build what we call. the jungle stairstepper. and it would just be two steps. and you get on it for hours just but you. could work up a real good sweat if. you're hauling that. So, he built the. steps high enough. So, Mark. gets a some vines. The guards would give. it to us, right? and they're they want. to see us occupied. They they're good at. keeping people like this, right? So Mark.

ties up a pull-up bar and he goes, "I'm. going to get to 20 pull-ups." And he. did. He got the 20 dead hang slow. pull-ups, right? And he's lost all this. weight. One day after he gets his. pull-ups, he turns around, he's like, "Fuck." I said, "Mark, you got a. six-pack, right? And we get these little mirrors. You can't see anything, right?" And he's. like, "Holy shit." You know? So So I. don't know if it was that day or. whatever. Mark's not eating his rice. Like we're starving. He's like, "Now we. just got to cut on the carbs, man.

He's like all yolked. We're skeletons, you know, and he's lentils, man. It's. good lentils. No, we got to ease up on. the rice when I get fat." I was just, you know, we're insane at that point. But he was he he had his, you know, he. he did his 20, you know, pull-ups and he. had his six-pack going and he's like. there in a camp like this, you know, it's like we're on beach on vacation, you know, but we're we're there, you. know. Damn. Damn. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, you're sitting. there in your underwear with rubber. boots on.

and you're walking up and down like a. homemade stair climber for hours just. trying to stay sane, you know. >> Is there anything else you guys would. do? >> That was our main exercise thing. >> What about the chest pieces? >> Um, I want to show you. There's a picture in this book. This is. super impressive what Mark did. And uh. the chef sets in here I believe. I don't.

know if open this up for a while. If. not, he just sent me a picture. Here it. is. So he got a piece of a machete. from a gorilla with permission. I don't know how long it took him. This. took him [ __ ] a year maybe less. And. every time we'd stop, Mark would start. carving chest pieces. Right. And then we got all the chess. pieces done. The gorilla gave us a piece.

of cardboard and tape. and Mark made the the chest the board. and the board would fold in half and he. had a little bag he put his chest pieces. in and carried them everywhere. And then the gorilla wanted to play. chess too. So they would borrow it. during the day if we were in a fixed. camp and everybody would play chess. Is. that amazing what he did? >> Yes. by hand. >> We'll put this up on screen. >> And the and the most impressive thing. about those chest pieces, there was so. much oil on them for people just playing.

them for years. They were smoothed out. >> Wow. >> I'm like, Mark, you're a woodworker, dude. He's got that at the house now. How amazing. You know, he'd get there, he'd just. start carving. He'd just start carving. He'd just start carving. I'm like, man. And I will tell you what we owe Mark. seriously. this thing's gonna do here. Um, everybody there in the jungle probably.

some of the gorilla too. You know, Mark should get build as a. doctor because the therapy that that. chess set brought to us was amazing. We. would have chess tournaments that would. last like days over a pack of crackers, you know, and Mark be a smartass. He'd. start screwing me. We were playing chess. and he'd save his coffee. We'd just play. for hours, hours and hours and hours and. hours. We just sit there chained up in. hours. Mark would take his leftover.

coffee and he'd set it out on my side of. the chessboard and just leave it there. and not say a word and keep playing. trying to do a little psychological work. cuz he knew I wanted that [ __ ]. coffee, right? But um yeah, that's what. he did. Amazing. It's uh I don't know. People are capable. of a lot. What are those Bible verses? >> So, one of the best things that we got to. read in captivity was a Spanish to. English New Testament.

So, we read it cover to cover, cover to. cover. So, Mark, I would say, was the. most religious out of everybody in camp. Like, he really kind of got deep into. it. So we would just share the Bible. back and forth reading and studying it. And those are some verses that he wrote. down just for inspiration for himself. And he um. something interesting was obviously the. Bible wasn't written in English. It was.

written in Latin. So the understanding when you started. translating stuff when you read a verse. in Spanish versus English kind of came. through a little bit clearer. And then I had a copy of Doniote, Latin English. Then I taught myself to read Latin, which I can't read now while I was in. captivity reading donote. So the windmills, [ __ ] Yeah. So you're.

if you have time, you can do a lot. >> Did you guys pray? >> Yeah. Not as much as Mark. Um Tom, I. don't Tom. Tom Tom. No. But um I think. my view on the Bible, right, especially. the New Testament changed when I started. reading in Spanish versus English. And I look at it as a moral compass. Not.

to say that I always followed that moral. compass. I don't want to sit here and. hold my hands up and look, man. You. know, my closet's filled with skeletons, so I'm as imperfect as they get. But. I think and Mark and I would discuss. this. especially the New Testament. If you. take out. what I call the fluff maybe. and you go about how do you treat your.

friends, how do you treat your family, how do you live as a person, how it. talks about how you if you look at it, how you pay your bills, what kind of. neighbor you are, what kind of brother, what kind of caretaker. It's just a. simple moral compass for life. if you. get through some of the stuff that's a. little more I don't want to offend. anybody here that's a little more um I. call it a sales pitch maybe a little. more. maybe we're not talking about somebody. being in the belly of a whale okay maybe.

we're not talking something that's on a. threshold for somebody that's hard to. captivate but when it comes to the. basics of how you should live and. conduct yourself that's what I think the. strength is and I would say Mark was a. little more deeper into it than I was. for sure, but it gave us it gave us a um. I don't want to use the word comfort. kind of a clarity about stuff if that. makes sense. Who gave it to him? >> I can't remember.

Did the gorilla give Mark the Bible. first? I don't know if he got it from. the gorillas or. I'm not sure. I can't remember. >> I mean, that's interesting. It it it's it's a guide book, right? >> For what's interesting is I mean. they're holding you in captivity. They're. giving a woman a C-section in the jungle. and.

they're reading the Bible. Um, >> I don't think. I don't think that uh. many of the gorillas were reading the. Bible. I think some were, but they. finally got it to Mark permanently. And. I don't I don't know where it came from. I I can't remember, but Mark carried it. and it's his. You know, we shared it, but Mark carried it. And I don't know if. did Consuelo did she give it to Mark, one of one of the hostages? I can't.

remember where he came from. But. um. yeah, it it it was a strengthener for. sure. There's no no doubt about that. But. >> it's interesting how people convince. themselves that they're doing the right. thing. But I remember when I lived in. Medigene, went to this church that the Sakarios, the assassins would go pray at before. they do a hit. I know. It's like.

never occurred to you not to do the hit. Um, I grew up in a Southern Baptist family. My grandmother was a fire and brimstone. Southern Baptist. You were going to hell. for anything, right? But, um, I think that. my father was a student of. history, primarily really the Civil War.

little bit of world history and world. religions. And he always would say it's not I'm. trying to remember how to say it right. Basically, he didn't like how. man distorted. the word from the Bible. He wasn't a fan. of organized religion. He thought, well, you see these mega churches now, how. they really just. >> it's it's a money issue, right? It's a. it's it's not it has.

>> has nothing to do with what the. scriptures really say. I think. >> you know like what are the things about. the big televangelists and their private. jets can't fly him back with the. heathens. Come on man. You know so. just look at the book of Eli the movie. right? The bad guy knew that could be. used to control everything. There is the Bible. So, I think uh like you're saying, it.

can be used in bad ways, it can be used. in good ways, you know. I mean, I'm amazed and my wife and I speak about. this a lot. um at the things that people are capable. of doing. and they think they're okay. They're. totally okay with it, you know. Scary. stuff, you know. And I I uh I don't. know. I don't know. But you have to.

remember I mean. Latin America is a it's a Catholic. continent, right? So do those gorillas. that were probably brought up in very. humble places and ingrained by their. parents go into a little any little. village. It's got a church, right? The. church is a big part of it. Can they. totally escape that upbringing? I don't. know. You know, I mean, I never really thought about. that in captivity because we didn't. really have a time to really engage with.

them on that level, but I'm sure I you just have to think, you know, that some portion of them. can't escape that upbringing. >> Yeah. >> You know, but the communist salesman. will try to erase it. >> Well, they get them young. It's an. indoctrination, right? Well, you know the little communist. manifesto? It's only about that thick. I. don't know if you've ever read it and. and uh Milton handed me the manifesto.

one time and he can't really read. And I. said, "Plus Value, Marks, Engles." He. goes, "You read that?" I said, "Yeah, I. did a book report on it was in junior. high school, man." Yeah. Read this. They. were like, "Oh, you've read it?" "Yeah, I read it." "Well, what do you think?" I. said, "It doesn't work. It's a pipe. dream. And I started reading back to him and. he's like, "You can read in Spanish?". I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not a doctor, but. I'm not a you know, but um the level of,

you know, people that are. I don't know if it's right to use the. word ar ignorance. I I don't think. that's maybe the right word to use, but. a person that's ignorant can really be. taken advantage of pretty easily if. you're smart enough to do it." And so. that's what I see much of what the young. gorillas were basically just sold a bill. of goods and brainwashed, you know. Yeah. You know. >> how often were you guys chained up?

>> There was really not until the third. year, I'd say two and a half to third. year that we got into it that they. started chaining us regular. And um before that they put uh 550 cord. around our necks and they have this. thing. um that goes on it's a knot just a. harness that they make that goes. underneath your arms and around your. neck and there's just a hangman's knot. on the back. So you're walking in front. of your guard through the jungle and if.

you try to run he's got the 550 cord he. just pulls it that chokes you out. You. can't do anything. that was much more comfortable than the. chains. You know, the chains were when. times were getting desperate. And um. Mark actually figured out we figured out. how to to uh break out of the locks with. a with a um fingernail clipper. The. cheap Chinese locks were so terrible you. could just run the tumblers and nothing. and they they'd open up. So we'd open. them at night and kind of undo a link so.

it was a little more comfortable to. sleep. >> So it would be all the time. What's. that? >> So, you were chained all the time. >> at one point. Yeah. >> [ __ ]. >> Yeah. Just dependent. I mean, they come. and take the chains off or put the. chains on, you know. Yeah. Mine's I've got about 6 in of my. chain and the lock that I use for paper. weight on my desk. And there's some. places I've gone to speak. I'd love to. brought it here, whatever. I don't want.

to risk losing that. I get it. You know, I'll I'll send you a picture of it when. you get home. And the worst thing was. sucks. It's a Chinese lock, so it's big. and heavy. It's not like a nice little. master lock. It's worth the [ __ ]. >> Damn. Yeah. What about holidays? I mean, what would what would Christmas be like? >> You know, they celebrate it. But you got. to remember in Colombia, the big holiday. is not Christmas. It's New Year's. And so they bring in candy, they bring. in liquor,

and uh. I'm a drinker, but I wouldn't drink in. captivity cuz I was scared about what I. would do. And I remember Tom one time. getting liquored up on this cheap. Chinese wine. He put a ass cussing on. the commodant in that camp. We're like, "You're going to get shot." He's just. standing there just cussing his ass out, man. But he was he'd had just oh you. know like it was it was it was from. China and this stuff was just horrible. and so and then they have auardiente in.

Colombia everybody drinks I couldn't. worst stuff in the world but uh they. would for New Years or the holidays they. would bake breads and cookies if we were. in a place you could do it and kind of. like throw us a little you know give us. some extra food and things. really, you know, strange, strange, strange. Wow. Well, Keith, let's take a break. >> Yeah. >> When we come back, we'll get into the.

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Performance may vary. You should always. consult with your financial and tax. professional. >> All right, Keith, we're back from the. break. Want to get into the rescue op. All right. >> How it went down, what happened as. descriptive as you can. >> Okay. Uh, a little outline on the. rescue. I went back in the FARC capturing us, opened the door for the US government, especially intellig to to to buddy up.

with the Colombians, right? And uh. Elvin rebuild their intel system and. they they did a lot of stuff. They lost. stuff. But what happened with the. rescue? We had an enlisted guy. and uh he had a suggestion. and it was about communications and the. way the FARC handled us and this is. something we don't do anymore and I. worked on it afterwards. We don't HFDF. high freak direction fine radio signals.

So every FARC group that we're with had. an HF radio. They'd use an extension. cord they cut up and go string an. antenna, you know, because it's got to. be long. The HF waves are much longer. And they would talk, all right? And they. would talk to the Kodantes run by the. secretariat. and the secretariat would talk to our. guys and they say, "You guys move here, you guys move there." They had their. code, right? But that's how they handle.

our movements. Or they would send a. person in in a certain area and just, you know, paper to paper. And I remember. Um, Cesar, who's in the first front. commander, he's in the supermax now. He. said, "Can you guys hear everything?" I. said, "Yes, sir." He said, "What's the. best thing for me to do? Just write an. order on a piece of paper and send it to. my guys?" I said, "That's what I do.". And so. the official story goes, which is true,

I believe it was a sergeant that he. basically said, "Hey folks, why don't we. cut off the communications link? Let's talk to the secretariat to the. commodant and pretend we're the guys. that have the hostages. All right? And. then let's talk to the people that are. holding the hostages and thank them. make them think that we are the. secretariat, right? Just cut it and then we'll just. tell them to let the hostages go.

No [ __ ] That's a simplified version of. what happened. So they broke the comm's. link and they started talking to the. bosses because you got to remember they. listen to them every day. These analysts. knew who the individual people were, what was going on, and they basically. broke the comm's link and then made some. experimental moves with us to see if. we'd follow the orders. And they found. out that they had broken it. successfully. And that was the what was. going to morph into the rescue. And you.

got to remember, well, you can't. remember stuff I've talked about here. Every little small group, the commonante. of the group will have a girlfriend and. she's the radio operator, right? So even in camp for years, I would hear. other groups talking if the radio was up. and be the same voices and the same. names. So essentially, it was just a really. good intel spoof by I I believe it was a. Colombian sergeant. I know it wasn't.

listed, but I think it was a sergeant. that did that. So the story and the. debrief that we got was we were moved a. few times and then our guys were told. that they were going to take us and turn. us into. uh the secretariat. Now here's what was. interesting. during that time. President Reebe. let it be known publicly, and this was. part of the spoof, that they were going to allow the Red.

Cross to come in and get access to us. and assess us. They were going to allow. the FARC to do that. And that came out. in the news. So then our guys who were. physically holding us, who weren't. talking to their bosses anymore, like, "Oh [ __ ] this is true. We're going to. go turn these folks in. They're going to. see them.". So, I think it was one of. really the best intel coups ever. >> Wow. >> Is it's really interesting story. >> Slick. >> And then it uh.

>> so they were basically playing HQ. >> Yep. That's what they were doing. And. then in the international news, in the. news, the president saying, "Hey, we're going. to let an international commission come. in and have access. to the FARC and the hostages to check. them out." So the FARC were going to get. recognition also politically. It was. brilliant. Um, where we were rescued at, it was kind of funny. It was basically a. wh house is what it was. So you have.

what's called a raspachine and they're. the guys that pick the cocoa leaves and. and the women, right? They go and pick. them. So. we were being moved and hearing this. news on a river. and all a sudden we're seeing other FARC. members which you we were never exposed. to anybody. It was a deep secret where. we were and who we were. And next thing. we know, we end up in a coca field. giving us Coca-Cas. They brought us blue.

jeans and shirts and stuff from a store. And they're like being happy with us. And the whole group is moving to a cocoa. field. And next to the coca field was. just basically a two big cabins. One. looked like a bar where there were some. pool tables right there in the jungle. and another had all these beds in it. So. Wancho, my uh my buddy who's a major had. enough time to go from lieutenant to. major and lieutenant colonel in. captivity 10 years. There's all of these mattresses in this.

jungle bordello man with plastic. And. we're like, "Holy [ __ ] we haven't laid. on a mattress in years." Everybody gets, you know, we're laying on a bed and. we're like this. And Wantra goes, "You. know what we're laying on, don't you?". He goes, "No, this is a horouse.". I said, "Shit." I said, "Are you kidding. me?" He goes, "No, Keith. What they do. is the raspinis come in here and they. pay them to pick the leaves. Then they. set up a cheap bar and they bring in. these girls and basically they get their.

money back. They're paying it for them.". So, we were like, "Well, you know what? Cover the mattresses are plastic. We. haven't been on a mattress in years. We're sleeping good." So, everything gets lax all of a sudden. Guards are there, but like they're You. guys want some soda? like when do we get. a Coke or cookies or extra food and all. this [ __ ] and we're out in the sunshine. We're not undercover. and I was like we're out. We're. uncovered and other FARC members were. coming through and they were looking at.

us and we're like something was going. down, right? We didn't know. And we had. staged on the river farther down about. I don't know how many miles for like a. week. And they were bringing us blue. jeans and tennis shoes and shirts and. all this stuff. And I remember I told. Mark, I'm not taking any of that stuff. But Tom took a nice set a nice shirt on. a nice set of jeans. Cuz he goes, "My. wife hasn't seen me in years. I just. want to look presentable to my wife.". you know, makes me want to cry because. he he was like he just I just want to,

you know, so everybody's but uh we're. like, "Want coffee? What do you want?" I. mean, so we're in this place for a. couple days and uh I go out. I hadn't. seen sun forever and I take my shirt off. and I just basically got a pair of. underwear on and I'm sitting in a chair. and the sun just cooking like a clam. And we're all, what's going on here? And. right across the river is another cocoa. field where the helicopter sat down with. a little house. But we have not been out.

undercover for 5 and a half years. There's no we're not hidden. We're in. the open. You know, they're talking on. the radio to each other. And I'm like, what what's going on? We knew. something's going on, but we didn't. know. And we had heard news, us also, that we were going to be able to get. seen by some people outside the gorilla. group to check on us, get messages to. our family. So there's an air of. expectation. and one thing that happens in captivity. Any little bit of hope, man, is like. filling your gas tank. So um.

they uh come in, tell us that more just. make sure we're packed. And one thing. they did is they took our rucks sacks. from us and they we just had little. bags, nothing to carry, nothing big. And. they come over and the death nail for us. was here in helicopters. It was. terrifying, right? because we knew. that's a disembark infill whatever. So. they get us up one morning and they put. us out there. Everybody get in line. Everybody get in line and then there's a. gorilla a hostage a gorilla hostage and.

the commodant goes hey folks if you hear. helicopters don't worry it's cool. There's no problems. I'm like what the. [ __ ] is going on here? Mark and I are. looking at each other. We're just trying. to process this. Right. All of a sudden. here they come hilos. So we see the MI. come overhead. just doing a circle. Nobody's there's no panic. There's no. anything. Other gorillas were there. standing around watching us that had. never seen us ever before. And so we're.

like, "Holy gez, what's what's going. down here?" And did they look like Red. Cross birds? There's been a lot of. criticism about that. Yeah, they did. White and red. I get it. And I'm glad. they did. So. they go down and get us in the canoes. and we cross the river and we go up into. the cocoa field and we're all standing. there and there's a film of us there's a. film online of this going down of me bar. we're all talking. So helicopter lands. while we're all standing there and a.

fake news crew gets out. We're like, you. know, and uh the lead. Colombian officer from the operation and. you got to make this is all volunteer, right? So, you just had a handful of. guys and a woman who was a nurse, a Colombian, was she naval or army? I. can't remember. A woman married with. kids who volunteered to go in as a. nurse. They're all in civilian clothes.

I think the pilots, all they had was a. pistol stuck in their boot. That was it. They were on their own, man. If this. cover was blown, everybody's dying. So, the crew walks up and starts. interviewing Cesar, the common Dante, and Goffus is there, and and we're all. like, "What's happening?" and he he. walked away with a common Dante for a. little bit and they came back and they. had large zip ties. which we'd already been trained to break.

out of, right? But still um so I I said, "Uh, man, look at that." So some of the. Colombian soldiers said, "You're not. putting those on me." Couple of the. soldiers said, "I don't care. You're not. zip tie me before the helicopter." So, this one guy is in front of us. He's got. red hair. And it's Mark and I and Tom. And he goes, he walks up to me and he's. almost in tears. And uh I said, "Who are you?" He said, "I'm from Australia." So, I grabbed his.

ID and I said, "This is bullshit.". I'm about to blow the whole thing. Actually, up at the unit when I did the. briefing, the Colombian colonel was up. there with the general general. hutmacher. He said, "Yes, Dance almost. ruined the whole [ __ ] rescue being a. dumbass." So, so Mark gets next to me. He goes, "I'm. from Australia." I said, "You're". I said, "Mark, you're not you're not. Australian and you're not from. Australia." And he gets nervous and he. starts to almost cry and he goes,

"Look." He said, "Yeah, you want to go. home?" Said, "Yeah." He goes, I mean, he. was almost in tears. He goes, "Please. come with us. We're taking you home." So. I yelled Mark or to Tom, I said, "Tom, put those [ __ ] tie wraps on." And we, you know, but we almost blew it right. there because Mark and I did not believe. this guy. Which we smell about in a. second. And when we did the debrief and. saw him again and Caroli's like, "Man, you just terrified me. I didn't know.

what to say to you guys." But I said, "Put on the tie wraps." Once we put the. tie wraps on and you can see us and it's. you can you you can it's on YouTube. The. video's there. I just said, "Keith. Stansel, five years in the jungle." I. didn't know who the fake news crew was, but they legitimately filmed and we got. on the uh on the bird. And um so they're. taking us to certain spots. So we were. psychologically profiled like who's. going to be a troublemaker, who's not,

you know, who's going to be a. troublemaker, who's not. I was in a. troublemaker category. Couple other guys were. So, I sit down. for a second and uh I start to stand up. and this Colombian soldier who was. basically dressed like a civilian, he. just grabs me, slams me in the seat. He. said, "Here, next to me, man. Next to. me, bro." I said, "All right." And so I. broke out of my out of my wraps. Just. the same trick we're taught, you know, to do that. I still start yelling at.

Mark. Mark's like, "What are you doing? You're going to get in trouble." I said, "Break out of the wraps. Break out of. the wraps." And then. Goffus and Cesar were supposed to give. up their pistols, but I can't remember. if Gothus didn't, but Cesar kept his and. he's right behind us. And so, um, it was. just a flurry, right? Everybody gets on. the bird and then they drop a like a. case of beer off next to the aircraft. for the for the guys and wave at them. and and they pull up the doors and we.

just pulled up, you know. And uh I. remember the guy looking at me next to. me. He's, you know, Columbia SF guy, but. he's obviously and he's like Colombian. army [ __ ] right? So we just. all jump on Cesar cuz Cesar pulled a. pistol and Mark has the medkit next to. him and they're yelling at Mark, "Take. the needle out and stab him. Stab him. Stab him with the needle." I just. happened to be closest to St. So I got. on his chest and that's what your.

assistant was showing my bloody hand. I. mean, they got pictures. I I just I hit. him in the head a couple times and then. the Colombian really took over doing a. number on him, but he had his hand with. a pistol and he he disarmed him and it. was 30 seconds and it was over. I mean, it was just it was over. And we're. clapping and yelling, they're yelling, "Colian Army, Colombian Army Police.". And I mean, the euphoria. I mean, I got to be careful not to cry. right now. It's just incredible. And I. look at Tom. I said, "Tom, man, we're on.

this Russian piece of [ __ ] helicopter. I. hope we get back." We were just, it was. a high. It was a high. Right. Then. Goffus, the abuser, the nasty guy, right? The old man Cesar pulled his he. was going to go down fighting in the. helicopter. Gothas just like a little. [ __ ] just hit the ground, you know. They pulled his pants down around his. ankles and he's in his own wear, his. little bikinis, you know, and they're. holding. He didn't put up a fight at. all. And he had been very abusive to.

Tom, you know, making Tom put 15 meters. of chain, three, five meter chains. around his neck and marching and. threatened to shoot Tom one time and you. know, and so it's a couple minutes into. it, everybody's kind of calming down. We're all hugging and high-fiving and. they've basically shot I don't know what. kind of sedative they gave to Cesar and. you know, they're taking pictures and. everything. And um Tom goes over to. Goffz and Mark and I are looking and he. kneels down. I know, man. He's just. gonna he's gonna like And Tom's an old.

Kroger, man. He grew up Cape Cod, Cole. Hogan, paid for flight school that way. He's a grumpy old bastard, man. He, you. know, he's just a no-shit kind of guy. and stuff. I thought for sure that Tom. was going to do something to Cesar. He. just leans over, gets in his face, he. taps on my chest. He said, "Good luck.". It was the coolest thing in the world, man. >> Wow. And then we're just, you know, um. then they flew us to a to a FOB there.

Then we got off of that, you know, off. the Hilo, got onto a 130. Then we went. into the capital. And I remember I'd. like to know who the guy was. Um. um he I think all the guys there I don't. think there were any SEALs. I think it. was all Delta that was on the ground. right there for our bird. I'm not sure. Big old dude. He had an American flag. on. I just walked up to him. I just put. my arms around him. You know, I saw that flag.

and I just like I was like, "We made it. We made it." And um. but when I saw him, it was one of our. people. I wish I knew who he was. You. know, he was laughing at me. He's a big. old jerk. I jumped on his ass and just. hugged him. and we are going home. So we. jumped on the 130 and you know we um. they got us to. uh basically another base and we jumped. on Aries's.

uh Air Force One, you know, that flew us. into Bogota. and we got off of that and then we got. on the C17 and headed home. But it was. it was um I mean it's still emotional, you know. I think. Basically, four of my friends died. looking for me. You know, Tommy didn't. make it out. Sergeant Cruz didn't make. it out, you know. So, there's a little.

bit of um. it's apprehension, maybe a little guilt, you know, uh in there that we made it. and they didn't. But uh I remember. getting off the MI and they've got uh. Goffus and Cesar and cuffs on the. ground, you know, and uh I was just. like, "Wow." But as I'm getting off. the helicopter, I look down and there's a pile of chains.

and locks on the floor. And this is. sick. I recognize my lock. I'd been. wearing it for so many years. So I. grabbed my lock and my chain getting out. of the hilo. I said, "This is coming. with me." So they cut off the majority. chain for me. I got on the bird and um. but how sick you recognize your own. lock, >> man. >> You know, and then it was off to the races, right? You know, um. it's like what you do here on your show,

Sean, is you give a voice to the. community. That's why I came to do the show. >> Thank you. >> You know, where people can hear what's. really going on. And we tried to give a. voice, Mark and Tom and I, to the. families of those that didn't make it. out with us. And we, and it's a perfect example, the Colombian hostages did not have the.

same kind of support that Mark and Tom. and I did. You know, we get on the C17, the ambassadors giving us a big hug. We. got a medical team. FBI is there. Now, we're civilians and this is a new thing. We're kind of the guinea pigs, right? So, but we're doing a basically a DoD. mission. And some could disagree with that, but. we know where who directed things.

And so, there is my old neighbor on the bird I. haven't seen in 20some years, Doug. Sanders, a former Ranger and Army. helicopter pilot, and he's in charge, you know, there in San Antonio of the. reintegration program for hostages. I'm. like, "Holy shit." and he was having. dinner with a friend of mine hadn't seen. in 20 years in Savannah when the call. got they he even tell them that he was. going to be bringing us home right. they're waiting on the op to go down. and so um. it's a small community. and there's people are patting us on the.

back and there's an air force crew and. it was fun it was kind of funny. this air force the flight engineer was. on there and I wear 44 long in a flight. suit and they gave me a brand new flight. suit and I'm like I got to wash it like. 10 times, man. This thing is too stiff. And the the flight engineer, I said, I. still got his name tag. I said, "Man, is. your flight suit broken?" He said, "Hell. yeah." I said, "You want a new one?" He. said, "Shit, yeah, we changed right. there on a bird." I put his on cuz it. was broken in. And then um they let us.

calm down on the C7 for a little bit. But there was a lot of excitement on. President Ree Bird between the field and. getting to Bogota and the capital. But. when we came off the aircraft, we didn't. want to do this and be like the. political scene in Colombia. We were. hustled off and we rolled and we were. taken care of, you know, and then you. start catching up on the real news, right? Stuff that's been going on since. you've been gone. And, you know, that's. a whole another wave of um reality.

But the rescue, um, I've looked in the modern history of. military rescues. I can't find one that. matches it without a shot. Not to say. that it hadn't been other stuff that's. gone down. Not a shot fired. Total coup that a. young sergeant, it was his idea and then. obviously support behind it. And the.

thing that I remember, the Colombians were in the back of a. rebase jet and they had us up front and. we had some uh people from our. government, you know, up front. And I'm like, you got a map? And like, why? I said, we know where all the. groups are here. And they had them surrounded. And the government said, you know what? We're going to give you a chance to turn. yourselves in. We didn't go after them. They could have swooped in there after. the rescue and taken out half of the.

first front easy. Instead, they just let. them roll. I don't understand that. >> Wow. We had them in the had them had them had. them a few hundred gorillas right there. and they had the packages around ours. Now, ours I don't think would have. participated, but our folks were there. Our intel folks were there, you know, and they walked. I don't understand that political. decision at all. We had them.

And so, um, the flight home was, uh, you're just kind of opened up, the. radar's on. And. our two FBI agents I I talk to. occasionally, every year or so, one. Eddie about once a year, they have a. six-ack of beer, cold beer. And here's. the joke. We were less to have one cold. beer and then it disappeared. So I. always say, "Hey, you guys stole this.

from us on the flight home, whatever.". But we had to get a a physical on the. plane, you know, check us out medically. and and bring us into San Antonio. and. you're just everybody's talking to you. and they're giving you news and it's. just But what they did have what they. did have was pizza. and we ate pizza. and a wild ass story was.

Mark and I'll let Mark correct me I. might mess this mess this up. Mark made. a comment in the morning of our rescue. He said, "Man, you know what I want?". So, what? He goes, "I want some homemade. chocolate chip cookies and I want. pizza.". I'm sorry. It just brings the moment. back, right? And so, we get on the plane and we're.

like, "Fuck." I said, "Dude, you you call this, we had fresh pizza on. the plane. you know, you know, they come. out of Bogota like Domino's Pizza or. whatever. So, the pilot in command was a. female. and uh I remember if I correctly there. was also a training flight going on. So, I think they had an exchange pilot that. might have been a marine. But she walks back and she goes, "Hey. guys, you what? I don't know if you want. these, but I got a gift for you." She's.

what? Here's a bag of chocolate chip. cookies. Oh [ __ ]. >> I don't bake. I don't know why, but I baked these and. I brought them with me. Wow. How about that, man? H. the cookies were the shocker. That's why. like it was very intense feeling. That's. why I tear up. Here's your chocolate.

chip cookies. You like to bake? No, I. just for some reason bake these. think that was, >> man, you better start thinking if I have. to explain it to you, you know? I mean, so. >> God patting me on the back. >> Can you imagine that, though? >> No. >> And I It wasn't me. It was It was Mark. I It was Mark said, "Yeah, I want pizza. and chocolate chip cookies.". And I was like, "Dude." And then I. remember. an embarrassing thing and my wife is.

upstairs watching. I don't I don't know. if I've told her this before or not. So, I look like a bag of [ __ ] I'm a. skeleton. Yeah. I'm 230 now. It's 154, 156, maybe 154. So, there's a flight surgeon. There's. like a little room on the C7 behind with. two bunks. It's a crew rest room, right? So, we each have to um. get checked out. So, I walk in, there's. this flight surgeon, probably just this. young, very attractive female flight.

surgeon, and she closes the door and she. goes, "You got to strip down." I'm like, "I front of you." I said, "You have a. fat girl on the plane?" So, I'm sorry. with her. I was like, "You got a guy. like you know you you have it like. you're you're just you look like a. back." I'm like, "Ma'am, I mean, really? Is this I was like this is you know I'm. wearing fake bikini underwear for the. [ __ ] jungle. So I said you guys have like an ugly.

doctor or something you know so I was. embarrassed but I did it. I followed. through but it was funny you know. I'm. like [ __ ] I'm wearing bikinis rubber. boots and I mean that is you know and I. didn't say anything to Mark. I said Mark. just go under flight searches in there. you know. He's like, "Oh shit." You. know, but you know, uh, and you know, it. was just a little embarrassment there. You're like, "Really? I mean, don't you. like an old guy, you know, like a old '. 06 with a big beard or something, you.

know?" You know, but um, and then Doug. was laughing about that. And so we get through this and it's all. happiness on the plane and it's really. kind of a just a. a blur getting into Texas and we land. and I remember General Huber getting on. the plane and you know here's this big. ass green and hey gentlemen and we roll. to the Blackhawk and I just news cameras. everywhere right.

and I'm like [ __ ] you know I mean it's. just everywhere news and it's dark you. know, but there's line up in the flight. line and um we get on the Blackhawk and. boom, we popped to head over to Bamy to. the hospital and I remember just looking. down at all the fast food places. just going across town going, "I'm going. to eat there. I'm going to eat there. I'm going to eat there." you know, and. um. we got down on the ground. and got into the general's I don't know. if it was a Suburban or whatever or was.

it a van or something, but I remember. the SEC deaf calling him while we're. riding over to the hospital. I said, "Damn." I said, "Mark, is the SEC dev. checking on us?" I said, "This doesn't. really happen that often, right?". So, we get into the hospital. and they put us in a room and it was. funny as we're walking down to the ICU. These guys are in space suits like to. handle us. They don't know what to do. with us, what we have or whatever, right? People are from behind the glass. and.

each one of us, they kept us in the same. room. They're worried about separating. us. They had to evaluate us, right? They're worried about separating us. because we'd been together for so long. But the TVs were on without the volume. So they were introducing stuff to us. And I remember I look up on the TV and. Mark's next to me and there's A-Rod is. dating Madonna. And then next to that. headline is the three hostages are out. I said, "Man, we're famous. A-Rod, Madonna. They're headlining with us.". Funny. You had to laugh at that, right?

You had to laugh at that. >> But one thing that I was nervous about. was you have a smell in the jungle, right? One of the first things is when the. gorilla captured this was their smell. You could smell them. It's a group, a. big group, right? And it's just a smell. of, you know, b in the jungle and. whatever deodorant that doesn't work. It's a humans. It's it's a it's. something you had to get used to. And I. worried. I said, "Man, am I going to.

smell like that when I see my family?". I know it's a small thing, but in back. of my head, so we each get to take a. shower and you know in the hospital, you. got that green disinfectant soap. I got. in that shower, man, and you've got the. handicap handle up there in the showers. at the hospital. I wet a towel and I. tied that towel. I hadn't had a hot. shower in five and a half years. I bet I. was in there an hour. I turned the. shower off. I got out and I was like, mm- I went right back in. I took two.

showers. I took two showers and and so. we all got showered and um. General Huber comes up and and there was. a black female colonel. She was an army. doctor and uh very kind. And so um. Huber's like, "Gentlemen, this French. restaurant's open." He had all these. really nice restaurants open at midnight. for us. And I'm like, "Sir, I appreciate it, but.

I don't I don't want that." He goes, "What do you want?" I said, "I want a. cheeseburger, fries, and a fountain. coke. That's what I want." To me, it's just. the American meal. I just That's the. thing I could think of. And that female. colonel who was a doctor, she just. leaned over and she tapped me. She said, "Baby, I'll take care of you." Like it. was like your big sister, the most kind. thing in the world. And I said to. General Huber, I said, 'You know, sir, this is pretty good. And he said, 'What.

do you mean?' I said, 'I can't remember. when I was a sergeant when a colonel and. a general would cook me a damn. cheeseburger at 1:00 in the morning, but. I'll take it. You know, and they took. unbelievable care of us, right? And so, um, one of the guys, it was a. psychologist or a counselor, cuz each. one we've got one signed, everybody's. looking at us. He comes in, I think it. was Mark said, "Damn, that that cologne. smells good.". And he he said, "You got any?" You know,

and he goes, "I'll get you guys a bottle. of cologne." So he came in later, we. each had like a bottle of cologne. So we. smelled he said and got us some clothes. And that was the part where the. reunification started. and there'd be a lot of debriefing and. uh you know, head to toe taking care of. us. Even though we were civilian, we. volunteered. And so DoD there in BAMY. took care of us and then we really. started catching up on the news over the. next 48 hours, right? But everybody in.

the hospital knew where we were. There's. news trucks surrounding the place out. there, right? So it was kind of odd that. everywhere you went, people are like you. couldn't, you know, that's why I say the. five minutes of fame, I was so glad when. that was over. And uh anonymity is a. anonymity is a big thing, right? Yeah. I'm sure you're learning that. Mhm. >> And um. unbelievable care for us and took care. of us, housed our families, you know,

and we had to reintegrate with the. families, which that was a big deal. And. um. that that brings out a a lot there. I. remember my father, you know, Korean War. vet. He's standing there wobbling when I. get to see him, you know, and I just, you know, I just put my arms around him. and he said, "Son, I know you make it. I. know you make it.". But, um, what do you do when you, you.

know, I heard a message from my son. My. son's 67. He's 245. He's a big dude. He. was a little 10-year-old when I got. captured. you know, in a year and a half. till we got into the jungle with the. politicians, I hear a message from him, like he's 11 years old and he's, you. know, he's apologizing for missing my. birthday in Christmas like I've done or. he's done something wrong. It broke my. heart in captivity, you know, but that was the big thing. there. I knew, you know, we were going.

to have a hurdle, an emotional hurdle. for the first time to get past. And um. it uh I mean, even now, I'm not much of. a crier, I don't think, but um the. emotion comes up and you just that you. you kind of relive that and and we um. you know, I think all of us handle it in. our own way, right? You know, like the. funny thing was is. Mark's mom was the squeaky wheel man.

Every news show, every politician in. Colombia, flying back and forth, riding. President Rebe's ass and all. So, he. gave her a special presentation later on. in DC and gave her citizenship in. Colombia for being such a pain in the. ass trying to get her wife out, the. president of Columbia. She actually. broke his ass. That was good. And, you. know, a lot of good stuff to come after. that. But um. it uh 5 and a half years, man. I mean, you're like, "Wow." And I remember my.

son. uh I had heard about iPods, little bitty. ones, but I'd never seen one. And so he. walks up to me and I said, "What do you. have?" "It's an iPod, Dad." I said, "Give me that, son of a bitch." Right? I. said, "I just mean," He said, "Dad," he. said, "What?" He might not like all the. music that's on there. I said, "I'm. good. Don't worry about it. But. technology, it also passes by. You know, do you. remember back in the day a Motorola.

little Star Link, not the Starlink. modern today, opened a flipflom, 60 or. 90 characters of text and I carried a. big satphone and we were like cutting. edge, right? You know, I remember my company. coming to the hospital bringing us each. a laptop and they're like, log in. And. I'm like, well, how do I do that? You know, we had. >> you know, things had happened. And um so.

it took a little time for the wheels to. catch up, you know, I think. And there's. a picture here of Tom on the phone in a. restaurant that opened on a Sunday that. was closed. And he's on the phone, a guy that I I want to give thanks to, Chuck Norris. He calls us. He goes, "Hey. guys." And uh we're like, "What?" You. know, he goes, "Listen, a lot of people. are going to be coming at you news and.

everything." And he knew the. reintegration folks. He's a. behindthe-scenes supporter. Doesn't say. a word. He said, "My ranch is ready for. you guys and your families. If you need. privacy, you can meet me there or not. It doesn't matter. You're welcome to. come here. You're welcome to come here. if you need a place, a safe haven. Wow. He wanted nothing out of it. Nobody. even knew he called us. But the funny. thing is here is a funny story.

I didn't know how much Mark like Norris. is an actor. So, as we say, we're. arguing about everything. We're laying. in the jungle at night and this starts a. [ __ ] war. Mark's talking about how. awesome an actor Chuck Norris is. And. I'm like, "Mark, he's a B movie actor. He's not an A movie." He said he's he's. the [ __ ] man. And and Tom goes, Tom is. just needling Mark, right? He goes, "Shit, that's all bullshit." And Mark's know, cuz I mean Norris is a legit karate guy,

right? Legit. Tom's house. He says, "Shit, if I saw Chuck Norris, I'll whoop. his [ __ ] ass, right?" Mark's like, "You can never kick his ass." So this is. They're yelling, right? Mark's like, "If. Tom's like, "If I ever get to see him, I'm kicking his ass." Well, then on the. phone, holy [ __ ]. Tom confesses to Norris. He said, "Chuck, I got to tell you, I'm sorry.". So, what I told Mark in the jungle, sorry, I whooped your ass. He said, "I'm. going to take that back.".

So, I mean, you know, I mean, come on. >> Damn. >> You know, I mean, come on. And then, you. know, in the jungle the whole time it. was like Tom's like, I could take Chuck. Forest, you know? Just silly [ __ ] This. is triggering me remembering stuff here, you know, but a lot of people that. didn't want any any credit and Norris. didn't want any. It was basically a. secret call through actually Doug. Sanders who knew him and he was just. going to make that offer and he said, "We'll get you out here, get your family.

out here. You guys need a piece of you. got all the time you want." So, I. thought that was pretty we didn't accept. it because we we didn't need it. But the. fact the guy took his time out to make. the offer and I found out later he's. done a bunch of stuff. Doesn't say a. word, you know. I mean, come on. You. know, that was And then afterwards. laughing at Tom about apologizing to. Chuck Norris about wanting to kick his. ass. That was funny. You know, obviously. Chuck took it was laughing and that was.

a whole joke. >> I mean, I would imagine coming back just. a whole. mix of feelings and maybe some new. fears. I mean, did you have any fears. about coming back about maybe your. family had moved on? >> I did not have any fears. Um, obviously my significant other that. I wasn't married to, she moved on and. got married. That was okay. Um, I. captivity buried the hatchet with my.

father and I, so it repaired our. relationship there. um. some tragedies, you know, people dying. I had a first cousin who was like a big. brother to me really more an uncle and I. wanted to see him and you know my dad. asked to pull me the side and said no he. got killed you know in a car crash but. you know truck crash and then some of. your friends you know some trapped. people had passed you're like oh [ __ ].

you know they were young and then the. whole thing where you guys were at the. whole thing in the sandbox. I mean we weren't there watching it on. TV every night So the whole escalation. of the war in the Middle East for us was. like holy [ __ ] you know, to really see. it. Um. just like I give an example of the CEO. at the time of Verizon. Um we made comments something about cell. phones or whatever and.

just a knock at the door one day in this. backpack with all this gifts and the. latest and greatest which then they. called it a smartphone. and it wasn't. compared to today was from the CEO and. he's like, "Hey, welcome back guys. Maybe this will help you a little bit.". Some anonymous people did some things. for us, not necessarily monetarily, right? But did some things you're like, "Wow, somebody's really thinking." And. um but just um trying to adjust to life.

and something that I was telling about. Hilo was difficult for me. So, my parents have a house rented for. me. And it's a big a bigger, more. beautiful home than I've ever lived in. And uh I roll in there like, "Can I. afford this?" And my dad's like, "Yeah, you can afford it." And you know, I. mean, the best savings program in the. world is get six years of pay, right? So, you know, our company took care of.

us. the son of a [ __ ] about that thing was. the instrument holding pattern for rotor. wing aircraft how the airport was right. over my flipping house. So I'm laying in. bed the first night and I hear a. helicopter and I sat up like holy [ __ ]. you know, but then it became a joke, right? It actually helped me. But um you. know the army each had a psych force. Mine was a wonderful guy and we had a. wonderful chaplain that really helped us. and so we were followed and we were.

helped. the company gave us six or eight. months off I think and then um they. really took care of us. and uh we all had jobs. and so um Mark basically retired almost. immediately. He did some security work. for the company but Mark was ready to. retire. Tom retired a little bit too. I. was the only one that really stayed on. and um so. but just getting your feet on the ground.

just trying to you know get up and turn. on a stove just look at oh my god I can. turn a stove on or you know. we used to urinate in a in a plastic. bottle. So if I sat up out of my hammock. I had to ask guard permission to urinate. and he'd put a flashlight on you pee in. the bottle. It's like, well, I can get. up and go to the bathroom. I don't have. to ask anybody. But these this thing is. ingrained in your head, right? So, even. though you know you can get up and go to. the bathroom or go to the kitchen or do.

something, you're still kind of like. psychologically you're just. >> decompressing. So, there was a large adjustment on that. >> I can imagine. >> a large adjustment on that. And I just. thank God for the help that the three of. us had compared to other people, you. know. And then we knew our future was. going to change, right, for all of us. And. I have not done I can't remember the. last time I did a television interview,

but the first couple of years out. there was a lot of demand and we wrote. our book. We had to do like a book tour. and stuff like that. And then, you know, um it was the five minutes of fame. And I will tell you this, when that was. over, it was fine with me. I learned one. thing. Um, after you, especially up in. New York City and you're doing these. talk shows and all this stuff, right? Um, there are some people who just eat. that up and they want to just be in.

front of the camera. They just want um I. wanted to support our mission and what. we're about and our book and all of that. stuff, but um I didn't really. necessarily. want to do that. And I'll never forget. I'm leaving New York City. I go to the. airport and our book has just been. launched. and they say number one New York Times. No, it's number two. And the publishers. are, you know, going back and forth and. arguing. So I walk into a bookstore in.

the airport and there's like a hundred. of our books stacked up in this big. elaborate display and there's a. cardboard cut out of pictures of us. And. I just stood there in front of it. Not a. person recognized me. I'm on the news. we're on the news, you know, we're doing. the, you know, I'm just standing there. I'm like, it's kind of funny. And I'm. sitting there, people picking up the. book and buying it and looking at it, and I'm really humbled, but I was like, wow. You know, and uh I'll never forget.

I walked into a Target. and I didn't know that Starbucks is a. Target or whatever. And I got a cup of. coffee and uh this guy walks up behind. me. and he just whispers in my ear. He goes, "Hey, bro. I got the coffee. Welcome. back.". Wow. And walked away. Didn't want to do anything else, you. know. So I was like, "Wow.". And.

then I got rolled up into the whole. basically, you know, reintegration for. other people and a guinea pig for the. Berg doll thing. And, you know, um there. were other things that were happening. And then you're balancing your. professional life and my company gave me. a lot of leeway, right? And and a lot of. support. And so, um, it ended up working. out. But I think um just that transition. back and it was a few months into her,

you know, it was uh it was just a lot. going on. I mean, you go to a uh I was. delivered to my parents house first, right? We come off a private jet and. there's a security team and there's. there must be 50 news trucks out there, right? And so I asked everybody, I said, "Hey, I'll send my daughter, my son out to. talk to you. I just need a little. downtime, but you can talk to my kids. So, they interviewed my children.

And I went in with my old man. I sat out. back with him by the pool and just, you. know, he he had that clarity of thought. kind of telling me what I needed to do. And uh looked outside a couple hours. later, the new trucks were gone. So, the. security guy from our company actually. drove us. I don't know what it was to. get. Um Oh, I know what it was. Wendy's. chili. My dad and my son would always. make a run around. My dad like Wendy's. chili. So we went to get that and we. came back in there was a reporter. Her.

and her cameraman were were there. But. the van was closed up and all. Then they. said, "Hey, we don't want to put a. camera on it. We just want to just give. you a hug and thanks." And they left. I. thought it was very human of them to do. that. But that's a lot of stuff, right? I mean, for you, Sean, taking your show. to where it's going, right? A transition. where nobody knows you. You're in your. garage doing your thing or whatever. Then it's like, hey, can I have a little.

space or a little piece or everybody. wants to touch the magic, right? And I. don't fault them for it, but you know, how many touches can you get before they. start stripping stuff off you, right? So, where's your responsibility? Kind of. tell your story and support, but then. keep this straight. So, um I think we did a good job of it. Um you know, we're all healthy and happy. and you know, Tom's, uh up in Tennessee. somewhere. He's got a little cattle.

farm. He's raising cows and um I think. his son's up there with him. We we don't. talk to Tom as much. I mean, every few. months we check in or whatever. Mark. lives, you know, less than an hour south. of me. So, my wife and his wife and him, we're close. One of the seventh group. guys retired down there. CW5 and um a. couple of my peers, you know, uh that. we're at so common all are close and. we've got a good network of friends. But. um yeah, it's been this is really coming. to do this show was kind of a.

reawakening a sense where I were and I. know after this interview is done. stuff's going to pop into my head that I. remember, but. you know, I think we all came out okay. You know, we always said, and I told uh told Mark and Tom this, I. I said, "Look, we're we're affected. We. just don't know till we get home, right? And uh I don't think anybody. um I think everybody came out good. You.

know, our lives are changed forever. I. think in the long run, this was a gift. for me, but it's enabled me to do some things. that otherwise I wouldn't have able to. do. I don't think so." by the odds, but. um I wouldn't go back through it for. anything. You know, we have to forget. some people didn't make it out and. unfortunately. world's upside down, right? Um so some. of the stuff that I did to support Seir. when I came back and go talk to DoD.

folks in active duty was just a win for. me is if I can give them anything that. may help them if it happens to them or. somebody else, it's a win. That's why. just doing the show is just to give back. to the community, you know, which you're. already doing, you know. >> What was it like to see the twins? >> Um, you know, my father was the hardest. The twins were kind of emotional for a. few minutes, but then.

they had brought so many toys and gifts. in for those two little kids and they. brought us into this room. They were. just like, you know, hey, dad, you know, whatever. And their mom had put a. picture of me by the bed. So, they knew. who I was. But it was whether with my children, the. twins, my father, any of my family. there, right? I could only take about 10 minutes and I. had to get out. It was the the um.

I'm looking for the right word. Um the. energy. >> overwhelming. >> overwhelming. And they told us that, you. know, and when I walked into to see. everybody, I was very happy, but then it got to where I almost. couldn't breathe. And I and I had to. roll out. I had to do it, you know, over. the next day or so. I had to take it in. in just chunks and pieces. And, you. know, the psych was there saying, "This. is totally normal. You're going to be. overwhelmed." And we were, you know, and.

I remember uh. the first night having my own room, being by myself, uh in my in my room in the hospital, just laying there kind of breathing, you. know, nobody around you, solo for the. first time in years. I was able to kind. of decompress, you know, and I remember talking to Mark. the next morning. Our rooms were too far. apart. And said, "How you feeling?" He. said, "Yeah, man. That's a lot, right?

It's a lot. So, um and then you know. the reunification with your family then. the reintegration process. But something. that really shocked me was um. one of the psyches said, "Hey Keith, the. guys in the burn unit want to see you if. you guys would make time for them." Bamy. has an unbelievable burn unit for. paraplegics. everybody, all wounded. veterans, right? And so, um, I'm like,

"Okay, let's go see them." Right? They. saw us on TV. They know we're in the. building. These guys have lost arms, limbs, eyes, you know. And as we're. rolling in there, there's this kid and. he was a guardsman. He was like a spec. four. And he's in a wheelchair with all. four arms and all four legs. And there's. screws down every single leg in every. single arm. Right. You guys, you came. You guys came. we've been waiting for. you to come. And his mom was with him.

He goes, "Man, I'm sorry for you guys. I. hate you guys. Had to go through it.". He's like this, you know, and I said, "How are you?" He was at an IED. His. truck got hit by He said, "I'm good." He. said, "Why?" He said, "Because I'm going. to walk." And he he didn't he said, "I'll when once they get all these. fractures done," he said, "I'm I'm. good." He said, "The guys inside. aren't.". And when I actually went in the unit and. we just started shaking hands or stumps. or you know and saw those guys.

that's when the war set in like whoa. this stuff been going on now you know. and to see the care. that. those servicemen were getting you know. in there tier one just tier one but to. see I Remember the next day we had um a. tour of the facility and they had a wave. machine, right? And there was a sergeant in.

there. Young black guy. I think he just. had one arm and he's the [ __ ] wave. machine instructor. That [ __ ] got on. the surfboard. He's on his stumps and. he's like, "What are you doing?" He's. he's got a purpose, right? He said, "I'm. rehabilitating people.". Right? And just like his attitude and. everything, he had I can't remember. I. think he. he was below the knee and totally one. armed. He got up, put on, he's talking. to us. Then another guy's in there. He's.

a shooting instructor. And the one guy in the ser was burned. over like 80% of his body just head to. toe. And his attitude, man, was like, "Holy geez.". Just like like. I'm looking at all these people like we. didn't go through [ __ ]. you know? So to see what all those men. and women went through, right? And. they're scarred forever,

right? They're going to adjust the way. they do things forever. It was very humbling. I was like, "We we. didn't do anything, you know. You know, we didn't do anything." But I'll never. forget the kid. He's a young spec four. And he's like. this. And he's like, "No, I'm good. When. they get this [ __ ] out, I'm walking.". I'm like, "Okay." But, you know, he. said, "They're waiting for you." And his. mom was thanking us for taking the time. to talk to him. Like, "No, man. The. guy's, you know, talking to you guys is. what it's about.".

>> It's amazing what the human mind can. overcome. You guys look at that. >> I I think. >> 5 years. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's uh. it's it's amazing what so many of those. people just went through. But to come. back to everything that had been. happening was, you know, an eye. openener. An eye opener.

you know, just taking for granted. getting in your truck and going to. getting a burger. >> How long did it take you to reintegrate? >> Um, I don't know. I saw a counselor probably. for a year. I transitioned from the army. counselor to civilian counselor. It was. more like checkups. I think we reintigate reintegrated. pretty quickly within months because we. were so busy.

Right. And so. we were going and visiting places, speaking, legal stuff started to happen. So we were, you know, I had to find a. house and everybody had needed furniture. and clothing and I mean start from. scratch, right? So there were things. that kept you occupied. If we would have. just come back sitting in a hospital. somewhere, I don't know what would have. happened. But I think we all now we all.

had challenges. You know, I wasn't married so I didn't. come back to a divorce like Mark and Tom. did. So for them, you know, they had a. lot to take on personally when they got. back. And um they did amazing. But you have personal challenges and. your professional challenges or what are. we doing or we have a job and you know. it sounds funny but it wasn't funny to. us, you know. So, um I mean worrying. about of course we had a job, right? But.

we didn't know what's actually all going. on. So, um I remember my father sent me. down by the pool the night that I got. back. He goes, "Take a deep breath. You got no more worries.". He said, "Just let it unfold. You're okay. Just let it unfold." That. my father saw from A to Z, man. He just. he was like that. And it did. And it was. bumpy. you know, some parts of I'm. saying it was like all kumbaya. We're. all dancing in a rose garden, but um we.

had good support around us and and we. had each other and we had an amazing. legal team, you know. Um. we've got. two attorneys. One's never been in the. military and one is a 1/60th plank. holder. So I told Mark and Tom because. I'd been through something with with our. attorneys before with one in particular. when you know we saw the guy shot down.

there. He basically um I was telling. uh a friend of mine is a retired 75th uh. regiment guy about this. He said, "Oh, my brother is the attorney representing. him down there." So I met him like a day. later and uh I was doing some other. stuff he helped me with. And so when I. was in captivity, I told Mark and Tom, I. said, "Uh, I don't care what anybody. does, but this is the guy I'm going to.". And I'm not going to mention him now,

but people in the community know him and. he's he's a genius. And his other part. that was civilian his whole life, brilliant, too. So, uh, those two guys. have taken care of all three of us. And. you had somebody that had your back. But. I told those guys, I said, "That's I. don't care if my family's done anything. This is who I have confidence in. That's. who I'm going with. And um they've made. a difference in our lives, but they're. Patriots, too. So, you know, kind of. funny in the community, your league guy.

is a 160th plank holder. And then the. other guy was a college swimmer, U of M. Brilliant. And those two uh took care of. us. But like I said, see, we had this. team of people that just kind of fell in. around us that were there to help us. 24/7. Man, that's good. >> It made a difference. >> What happened to the. guy that took the M4 and said he was. going to kill anybody that rescued you. with it? >> So, um, the last time I saw him, he had.

the M4 around his chest and he's all. proud and he rides off with these. ponies, right? Short guy, probably 5'9, but a big fat belly. And so, um, we're with the FBI and their offices in. Miami and, uh, we had a wonderful female. agent down there who sees family care. Like, that's what she does, you know? She looks after victims, crime victims.

Name's Dalia. Wonderful woman. And then. Eddie, one of the guys that's on the. plane, is down there, and he goes, "Let. me show you something." He brings in the. M4. There's all through the, you know, through the magazine well. And I'm like, "That's my M4." Obviously milg groupoup. It was signed out for milgroup. He goes, "Yep." And I said, "Well, where'd the. hole come from?" "Your boy." When they. went into to to bump his camp, he said. that's where he took around. So for me. to see the M4 there with a hole through. the magazine well that the fat guy was.

carrying him, you know. I was like, I. told him I wouldn't want to fight our. people, you know. And I I told him, I. said, I don't want to fight our guys. Why do you? was just it was Bravo, right? And I asked asked him if I could. keep the rifle and obviously it's. evident so I can't keep it. But I did. write a letter, you know, I wish they. could demill it or something or let me. have it. I mean, you know, put it above. the fireplace, but that's a heck of a. story, you know. Damn.

But yeah, I guess he, you know, I guess. he he he had it on when he went down, >> man. So, >> and you went back to work. >> Yeah. Yeah. You were on the bird. mission. >> Yeah. So I was a guinea pig. So um. the reintegration folks along with other. government folks. were always training to bring him back.

and others. I was used with re reintegration guys as. kind of a guinea pig like how would I. react. if you and your buddies come in to get. me? What do you think I'm going to do? So, it was all a profile issue. And um what I learned about what really. happened with Bergd Doll, um. it wasn't the story that the news was. painting.

Did he do something wrong? Yeah. I'm not. agreeing with the way it went down, but. um. >> real quick, why don't you paint the. story of what the media was saying? >> Well, he basically deserted, right? which he. did. He rolled up and he, you know, he. he rolled out. I did not learn until reintegration and. a few soft guys that were in. reintegration that handled his. reintegration. um. he had some legitimate.

um concerns. about what was going on and I don't. think that they were handled correctly. And Doug calls me one day from BAMY and. said that Bo had handed out a few gifts. to everybody. And I never met him face. to face. I was just going to be a guy. Now I interface with his parents. And so. um he said he brought us all a compass. to give us so we never lose our way. Right. Some kind of you know you know.

kind of deep stuff there. And those guys. who are hardcore soft guys, their job was not to judge. Their job was to reintegrate. And I always told everybody the mission. there, although difficult because the. actions that were taken, you still got. to stay mission focused, right? So, I remember I was on CNN doing an.

interview and Quomo asked me, Chris. Cuomo asked me about Bergd Doll and what. he'd done. And I said, "It doesn't. matter." And they said, "What?" I said, "Our job, he's got a green ID card, is. we bring him back. Then we judge him for. right or wrong. Not the Taliban, not. anybody else, but we judge him." And I. saw my guys that had to actually friends. of mine care for this guy and they they.

come from your community and all, but. then they also know what went down. Tough mission for them because they took. a lot of criticism, right? A lot of. heat. A lot of people did not care for. what he did. Understandably so. And I'm. not justifying what he did. But imagine. being in those shoes. But I believed in. the reintegration mission that. I don't care if you're a mass murderer. or you're innocent. We judge you by our. standards here, right? Guilty or not. guilty. And so. I thought that was an important mission.

to support. Now, um, I really didn't. think it was going to take as long as it. did to get him out. And I remember getting a call, and I. have to be delicate on this. um. from the green side and you know his. father was kind of living vicariously. through his captivity and you know they. wanted me to do the first initial talk. and I had a phone call with his mother,

his father and their attorney. and uh it was. it was interesting. It was interesting. and I don't want to. criticize anybody here. I don't think. it's necessary, you know, but there was. a reluctance on the active duty side to. to engage with them. And I understood. why once I I spoke with him. But I I uh. I remember there was a funeral and uh he.

was standing around a bunch of active. duty guys who were at this funeral. Nobody even knew who he was. So, um, I think that I've heard a lot in the. community about how many people died. looking for him. I think that's been. exaggerated. And I'm not demeaning any. of that, but that's the truth. If you. want the truth, Sean, I'll just That's. the truth. I just remember we'd do a. work up, I'd fly out, I was the guinea. pig, and you had your HRT folks, you had.

your guys from the different places, and. those guys, what's the plan? What do we. do to get them out? How do we do that? And the same with Levenson and Iran. We. did the same thing with him. And uh I. just thought it was very difficult to. see two of my friends have to take on. that mission, right? Cuz everybody's. supposed to hate this guy, right? You're. supposed to he's a deserter. We hate. him. All this stuff, right? Well, their. job was to look past that, get this. finished, and then. command can take over is what they're.

going to do. And it was tough. It was. tough. and one uh Doug Sanders, God rest. his soul, he's deceased now, but he he, you know, he led that up with some other. guys. And, you know, guys I have. tremendous respect for, but to be put in. that position, right, you're going to. catch a lot of heat, but you still have. to do your job. So, um, yeah, I, uh, I don't agree with. what happened at all. I don't support.

what he eat at all. But I can understand. the mindset and um it uh. was that's another casualty of war, right? In a sense, people are put in. extreme positions and they do extreme. things. Not everybody handles it the. same way. I don't think he handled it. correctly, right? But uh you ask me, right? Hey, are you willing to be a. guinea pig? Would you come back? Can we? Well, of course that's the mission. My.

mission is not to judge, right? Your folks, hey, whatever I can do. I. still believe I made the right choices. I think the guys that reintegrated him. did an unbelievable job. Would I have. wanted to be in their shoes? No. No. I mean, would you? >> No. But given that mission, right? So that was pretty dicey. and uh you know a lot of people paid a.

price with that. I do think it might. have been exaggerated. Some of the. stories I heard did not fit with what I. saw. But why argue about it, you know? And I was in no I was in no position of. authority either. I was a supporter, right? Didn't make a didn't make a rat's. ass what my opinion was. I wasn't a. decision maker, right? But uh people who. I greatly greatly respect,

you know, from the soft community, I would say, man, but they did their job. They did their job. And uh I I I respect them for it, but. you know, how hard was that? Because. that was a bad that was a bad deal. Yeah. you know, but um I mean I don't. know. I just said, "You want me to go do. this? I'll do this." You know, I did I.

never I never thought my position was to. make a call. They needed somebody to do. something for. And like I said, I was. just a guinea pig. That's all I was, you. know. And then a couple debriefings. with some folks. How would I react? What. would I do? What do you think? Well, all. I can do is give you my opinion, right? another person may do a totally. different thing, you know, but the. effort, and this is what I do respect, and this. is what I think maybe is a better answer.

to your question. The effort that we put to get. an American back, regardless of what he's done, is what. makes us different. It can be distasteful, and I know it was. for many, right? But. That's what separates us. That's what. makes that flag different than other. flags. And so I always stood by that, you know, you got a green ID card, we'll.

bring you back. What happens after that, that's on you. But it also says to me, how about the future people? Hey, if. we'll go to this effort to get that. person back, for sure I'm coming back. Right? if you were rolled up under other. circumstances. So, there's a bigger message sent there. that I believe in. >> It's a damn good point, >> you know. >> That's a damn good point. >> You know, and I'm not saying to agree or.

not agree. I'm looking at a a bigger. picture. I know once when those. Colombians are said, "We're glad you're. here." Why? Because Americans are never. abandoned. You know, there was a. was it a year and a half ago? And I. haven't followed the Africa thing too. much, but didn't we rescue a female. American missionary with a was was it. your one of your some of your guys was a. group of SEALs or was it unit but and in. and a British guy, right? And I don't know if you know the people.

that were in on that or whatever. And. but I saw the guy's interview and he. said, "You know what I was happy about?". He said, "What?" He said, "She was an. American. Thank you, America." That was my biggest. hope. I don't know if I have that story. confused, but I was reading about it not. too long ago, but I thought it was in. Africa. Wasn't she a missionary or. whatever? >> There's been a couple. >> Yeah. But his interview, all he did was. thank the US armed forces. That's all he. did. He couldn't say enough about us. He.

goes, "If it would have just been me, [ __ ] I'm still there.". So that is I think. the message that I would want to send. that no matter the what. we're going to bring you back. because that means others are going to. believe in us and that we're coming to. get them, right? you know, so I I think. that overrides. what he did.

because it's not about him, it's about. us and what we do and it's about. sacrifice. >> It's a damn good message that I've never. heard. >> I just happen to be around there, you. know, watching the whole thing and play. my little part. But I believe in that. message more than. like how do I get justice? How do Mark and Tom and I really get. justice? How did the people that were. looking for me that died get justice? I don't have the answer. I want to get.

healthy. I want to have happiness. What. is justice? Like if I killed every. person to have me in captivity, is that. justice? Would it make me feel any. better? No. You know, surviving is my. justice, but that's the definition for. myself. So. unpleasant or not, I think we send a. bigger message. Now, if I'm a family. member that lost somebody that was doing. an OP, it's probably not acceptable for. them. But I'd ask that same family.

member, what if you got somebody else. and goes down, it's a family member they. know we're coming. There was no win in that either. I don't. believe I How do you win in that, right? No matter what, you know, we're going after them. Right. We don't know what the price is. We don't know who's going to pay, but. we're going. And I think when you sign a. dotted line,

you accept that responsibility, right? I mean, [ __ ] Sean, your show is all. about what's right, what's wrong, right? How do you define it? So, I don't know. But I think our message that we send is. most important and my heart goes out to. anybody that made a sacrifice on that. I. I don't want to discount that at all. But I'm not making that judgment. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense at all or is that. >> perfect sense?

>> You know, >> it's a it's an aspect I've never thought. of. It's a bigger message in that. >> I mean, and they're not all public. Uh there was. I'll just leave it as a foreigner. that was rescued by our people. uh less than a year after me and was. reintegrated. Okay. through our own folks that I got to work. with.

and uh. you know some operators showed up and. got him out and all he wants to be as a. US citizen with him and his family and. when I say patriot. and an appreciation. and I was only working with him for a. little little bit mainly telephone calls. right got to meet him and all but he. called me I was really a part of a. support network. I'm like I called Doug. I said, "Doug," I said, he goes, "Yeah,

we do a lot of people." Keith said, "We. don't advertise, right?" And I said, "What's he want?" He just wants to be a. citizen. He's the biggest He's the. biggest convert ever, right? And so, you. know, how many undocumented, let's say, or unadvertised. have you and your friends done, right? So that that's a bigger message. But now. let's just say I had a spouse or a.

brother or somebody that paid a price. during that mission. It'd be pretty hard. for me to stomach. >> Yeah. >> If I even could. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Well, Keith, what are you doing now to. keep busy? >> Uh my wife says I'm getting fat. Um. I retired about four and a half years. ago. And so we lived out in Sarasota and I. love to hunt and fish and my wife is a. foodie. Um craft cocktail person,

excellent cook. I never enjoyed anything. as far as traveling or eating. So she's. kind of exposed me to that. So now I. drink some fufu drinks that I would have. never drank before and uh eat some food. that I never ate before. You know, I. never ate a salad. I was 54 years old. I. never ate a salad until I met my wife. And uh so we travel and uh we've got. some real estate rental stuff that we.

dabble in. You know, we built a few. things just for rentals, but we um we. are considering a move. Everybody's. moved to Florida. Thank you. I I. appreciate you guys. Whatever. Right. But uh we're looking at maybe um moving. somewhere a little more rural. We had. some property up in Georgia that we just. sold to my best friend a few weeks ago. Actually says SNS property since his. last name starts with an S and I he's a. redneck genius. He's a redneck that has.

a chemical engineering degree and had a. a third generation tow truck company and. took it to a different level. So that's. his logo. He came up with it. That that. was our LLC. I wear this hat everywhere. But uh gonna travel, get a little. healthier and um we just came back from. a great fishing trip and you know. whatever else she puts on the calendar, you know, >> enjoying life. >> as best we can. As best we can, which is. But that sounds negative. No. Yes, we.

are. We are enjoying life. Um it's funny. though. I'm 60 now and I don't feel 60. till I look in the mirror. you know, I. imagine myself a different way. And so, um, it's kind of that time of change, you know, but I I want to make memories. now. Um, we're in a position where life. is good and we can make choices, but I. wonder and I talk about my good friends. with us. I said, can I make it to 75. before she puts me in an orange flag.

wheelchair and remote controls me. around, or will I make it to 80? But. there's like there's this physical. window now, right? It's the fourth. quarter and I um I was on a mountain. last year on a sheep hunt and I finished. my sheep grand slam. My mentor in the sheep world, 74 years. old, he was outdoing me on the mountain, right? I'm a flatlander, whatever. But. with some of the stuff that we do, what's really been on my conscious now. is how long will I be able to physically.

enjoy it? No, I don't think in a year or. two I'm out and I don't feel I know. people doing a lot of different things. but talking to my friend I'm like my. best buddy and I what do you think? He. said no Keith it's it's it's the fourth. quarter now know how long it is or how. good we do but things start changing. physically a little quicker as you get. older. Right. So we want to travel and. we want to make memories and u I've been. luckily health-wise I've got great. health. I've been very fortunate, but um.

you know, we've had a few friends that. have died. You know, someone we know now. is just a few years older than me. He's. just come up with a stomach cancer. issue, you know, so at this age things. start to drop, right? And so, uh I want. to take this time while I can still do. things physically. And I don't think. it's running out in 10 years or. anything, but the point is it's got me. thinking different. You know, >> you being through what you've been. through,

1967 days in captivity. >> Yeah. >> No getting that back. >> Do you value relationships more than you. used to? That's a tough question. Um, I don't think so. This is going to be a little mercenary. Um, I value a real relationship more than I. used to. >> Well, that's what I'm getting at. A.

relationship with your dad, your son. >> Yes. A real relationship. Yes. Wife. >> Yes. Yes. Those in the peripheral, it's a fact of life. You people move in. and out of each other's lives, right? And so, um, where's your circle? Where's your circle? Mhm. >> You know, my problem is I have too big. of a mouth and I'm too open. I don't think it's changing. I'm trying.

to, but let's see how that works out, right? My openness has cost me. It's cost me. And, you know, um I'm working on that. I. think my circle will only become. smaller. Not that I don't like people or a social. thing or making friends, but you know, it's uh. it makes you kind of define. Is this a. real true friendship or not? Or is this. just something.

>> I'm casual? >> I mean, the way I think about it is, you. know, if you had. >> 24 friends, >> Yeah. you're awake for, let's say, 12 hours a. day. You want to develop those relationships, you can only give 30 minutes a day to. each person, >> right? >> But as your circle gets smaller and you. get more particular about who you care.

about and who you give your time to, >> right? >> Whittle that down to 12, then that. >> it's an hour for each person a day, >> right? >> You whittle that down to six, that's. two. >> Two, >> you know? And so, you know, what I've. noticed through through my journey. is, yeah, everybody everybody wants to. be your friend. Everybody wants, you. know, >> Yeah. >> And you got to be careful because the. relationships that really do matter, they suffer because then you start.

divvying up time, >> right? >> And nothing really grows, >> right? >> But when you do whittle it down to what. really matters, family, >> close close close friends. For me, my. team here, we're like a family. I mean, when you can invest in the relationships. that you that you truly value, then. they'll flourish beyond what you. >> ever would have thought. >> Yeah. I I think that um look, we'll take.

your position. So, you've earned a lot of respect in. the community for what you've given back. on your show. Probably some animosity, too, for your success. And you meet. like-minded individuals all the time. that if it was just Sean by himself, no. family, no you guys hang out all the. time. Hey, I'll go fish no roll. Life, right, starts to take up time, which. you're talking about. And. effort. So where do you focus your effort?

And it is. it's just normal for people, right? uh to kind of want to be around certain. things like we were talking about and. you know um. be a part of something, but. you got to whittle down where there's. going to be real results, you know, because I know, you know, I've got some. friends of mine. I would I would call.

them friends. We don't see each other. very often, right? not my close, but I. got three very, very, very close. friends. Okay. But outside of that, there are people. that I've met, especially through this. captivity and everything, that are just. awesome folks, man. Men and women, that. I have tremendous respect for. And if. there was time to hang out with them or. something, probably would. But I think. maybe. understanding,

this is going to sound a little shallow, but I believe in it. Loving yourself. first so you can love those around you. Understanding what you're, you know, what you can manage and not manage is. part of defining that circle and those. relationships. And let's face it, time becomes a. commodity also. And when I turned 60. last year, my wife surprised me with a. beautiful trip to Ireland. We were fly. fishing for brown trout, which I wanted.

to do for years. And I'm looking around and my wife's. with me and I'm here and just this. gorgeous place. And I said, "You'll. never erase this from my head. This memory. You'll never erase it from. my head." So I want to focus on those in. this second half, right? And you can't. always please everybody even though you. may want to. then you get straggled out. and then those that you need to be like. yourself are dividing up your time.

and I think it's okay to be a little. selfish. I didn't say be unappreciate. everything, but sometimes, you know, I. went through something here recently and. my friend said to me, my best friend. goes, "It's okay to be selfish. It's all. right." You know, and sometimes you got. to, you know, kick back and take care of. yourself. And I mean, like, how many. people in the best way, especially with. what you do, hey Sean, come do this with. the best intentions, right? They really. appreciate you and what you do. Come,

come, just come on, let's come do this. What kind of invites do you get? All. this stuff, right? You can't always just. go do it, you know. And I I would imagine for you. the demands on your time now must be. astronomical. I guard it very carefully. But you're growing something, right? And. so I say I value relationships, but also. just because you're family. doesn't mean you're more valuable than a. friend who's a true friend. So sometimes.

family can disappoint you more than your. friends. Mhm. >> Right. And um that becomes a challenge. also because there's a deeper, you know, maybe love or connection there and that. hurts worse too, right? It hurts a. little worse. So, um I don't know. I I. uh. I think about that now because in this. time, in this quarter, where are you. going to cut up your time to be? Every.

time you say yes to somebody, you say no. to somebody else. So if you're saying. yes to people that. not that they don't matter, but it's not. going to go anywhere, it's a dead end, then you're saying no to somebody that. you love, >> right? >> And starving them of their time. >> and overcommitting yourself. >> Yep. >> That's what I'm. in the past have been guilty of. And I'm. trying to maybe when I make a commitment. to something, does it have real value?

Is that just being a nice guy. that could be noble or whatever, but. does it have real value? And so, um, my wife has helped me with that. Say, hold on a second. Just what are you. doing? >> Got a good woman. >> She's got a she's got an instinct for. that stuff. But, uh, you know, I mean, I can only. imagine for you, you've become a known. quantity now, right?

What about those days when nobody knew. who you were when you pulled out of your. driveway? >> Oh, I think about that. But this will. all end one day. >> No, I know. I know. You know, and the. Five Minutes of Fame was funny. I I. >> It's not real. >> It's not real. I I was on an interview. I think it was Good Morning America. And uh we were doing a few talk talk. show things. And so I get in an elevator. and there's a I'm not going to throw. rocks at anybody, but she's left the.

country and she was she's over where I. was fishing. >> She's Oh, I know who you're talking. about. >> And she's standing there in front of me. and she wasn't rude or anything. Right. And then uh Rob Low's there, right? He's. just cracking me up and and and uh. I just see this throng of women, man. Like there must have been a hundred. women outside the studio. Rob, Rob, Rob, you know, and uh.

I looked at him. I he'll never probably. remember me. I was on the show, too. Whatever. I said, "Careful with that. film. We got caught, you know." He goes, "Yeah." And I was like, you know, but I. I was just watching him and he was. sincerely nice, right? But there was. just this throng of all these women of. all ages just wanted to get next to him. and touch him, you know? And so you get. to meet some celebrities and I've met a. bunch more or whatever, but man, imagine. just going somewhere and being yourself,

you know, >> like, and I won't drop names here, but. we're mentioning one of my best friends. and who his best friend is, right? And I. said, "What's it like when you go. somewhere with him?" Right? And he said, "Keith, he's very humble, but like you. can't move 10 steps without and people. don't mean anything bad. That's never. going away, right? And now with social. media and all this stuff. Wow. Wow. But. nothing's free, right? There's no free. lunch. That's right. My father always.

said, "If you said fair or free to my. father, argument was over." Nope. Done. We're finished. This we're not going to. talk about this. >> Well, Keith, we're wrapping up the. interview, but. so I got one more thing for you. >> Yeah. You know, you've seen the show, you see. the majority of who I interview, >> right? >> We talk a lot about reintegration after. combat, after service, right? >> What do you have? It's a big struggle.

throughout the veteran community. I. mean, suicide's at an all-time. higheration. So, what I'm going to ask is, you know, >> I've never met anybody like you. >> You've been through it 5 years. captivity. What advice do you have for people that. are reintegrating? >> It's a network. It's a network around you. I was. surrounded, so was Mark and Tom. We were surrounded. by people.

that were there to support us legally, professionally, emotionally. Don't be. the lone man on the hill by yourself. Right. And I think especially type A's. from this community tend to be that way. They don't want to accept help and. recognize you do need help. So it's a. network is the biggest thing and my. fear.

So I'm set and I could go be on my own. I'll be okay, right? You know, my wife. and I can just go off into the into the. distance there and we're fine. What. about that vet who is not set right that. every day for the rest of his or her. life they'll put on, you know, >> prosthetics. >> Yeah. Every day they'll have that. physical challenge, right, of just.

getting through the basics in life. And what scares me is. as I called it the sandbox, right? But. as the war wound down, do the networks and the support for the. vets. start to wind down too? Because they're. carrying it for the rest of their life. The rest of their life. Well, when it's. not. 24/7. all the new fights on YouTube or on the.

news or whatever and it's not in the. public's eyes, does the support, although not me in a. bad way, dwindle? So the recognition of what sacrifices. these people have made. I think is important. um key to keeping the support networks. going. Right? When you when you see all. this stuff on the news every day and. they ask for a donation for for vets oh.

they're coming. I mean you see an. organization like Tunnel the Towers, right? you it's created something. longterm is our long-term care for our. vets there. I mean, when I see. when I see illegal immigrants in a hotel. with a check, a cell phone, and I I'm. not trying to hurt these people, right? All the support and then I see a. homeless vet and I'm like, what's going. on? Right? And then also the.

psychological side of it. Not only do. some of our folks have to deal with the. physical trauma, but the mental trauma, right? Is that support going to remain a. priority? Is it 5 years after the war, 10 years after the war, 15 years after. the war? Is that still going to be. there? That's my fear for people who. have paid a price. And this focus on. and not trying to go political here, but.

this focus on immigration over people. that okay protected the right for that. to even happen. I think they should be. front of the line. I don't think the. military is a place for social. experimentation. I think the military is. a place where it makes our country safe. so we can have social experimentation. Right? And I just like your show does, you keep the light on. And.

I'm lucky. Not everybody's lucky. So that's my worry personally for those. folks is how how does that stay. relevant? I think it's just natural that people. start to see other things and move on. and think, "Oh, we were in a war 15. years ago. Well, that person still. doesn't have any legs, right? They're. still struggling with long-term health. issues, physical, we don't even know. about psychological. How can they make a. living? What can they do? You know, so.

how strong is that compared to 5 years. ago right now? I don't know. But I would. say that's my fear keeping the light on. And you know, you see it especially here. with this what goes on. So, I hope that. I hope that we as a country can keep. that going. But it scares me. It scares. me that those people will be forgotten. after time. But they're living with. everything that they have until the end.

of their time, you know. So, some of these big. organizations that have become well. organized, you know, I like that. But uh I uh you. know I just don't know you know I just. don't know. I mean how do you feel about. that? Do you think that the the support. is waning with time or. I think that there are.

some great organizations out there that. will continue to develop and do the. right things. Unfortunately, I don't. think that's the government, >> right? >> But. it's the. how do I say this? It's the giving back to the community. that's going to keep it alive, right? Taking care of each other. That's what's.

going to keep it going, right? It's it's. >> mentoring guys. You know, I got up. I quit contracting in 2015. That's 10 years ago. But I'm still. giving back. I'm still coaching. I'm. still bringing exposure to guys that. have done amazing stuff like yourself. that that can transform their business. And and there's a number of other. organizations out there that do that, >> right? >> And so, you know, if you're asking, you.

know, what my advice would be would be. to seek those organizations out. Exactly. what you said, a network. Build a circle. that you can lean on. >> Yeah. >> Lean on each other. >> Accept some help, man. Except. >> because nobody's going to take care of. us except ourselves. >> Yeah. That's it. And you know, and it's. not just us. It's our families that. suffered, too. >> You know, you know, I I have a couple of. relationships that were just damaged. just by by absence.

And so, you know, do those ever get. back? You don't know. But um yeah, I. don't know, Sean. I think uh keeping the. light on, isn't that Norm that says that. in the in the hotel thing? Hey, we leave. the light on for you, right? But the. light's a beacon. >> Yep. >> And I think it's important. And you. know, um I like seeing. folks, men and women, that have come out. and turn it into a positive.

You know, for me, whether writing the. book or we wrote the book, I didn't. write the book. I don't know. Right. Or. um. going to teach a class somewhere or to. speak to a group of people. That's. that's me being selfish winning for. myself, right? Just giving back. And. that's a way to defeat those that that. at one time had me defeated. So that's, you know, that's where I'm at with that. And you know, but we got a lot we got a.

generation of really young folks that. have suffered greatly and they're going. to need our support for a long time. >> And I don't think they're looking for a. handout. I think they're looking maybe. just for a little leg up, you know. Yeah. And it's it is um. it's. it's tough to see. some of the folks that uh you know are. will you know are have gone through some. things. I met a guy that's a wounded.

warrior when I was at North of Groomman. and he was a program manager. He was a. Marine captain. and uh he was a Fallujah. Big guy, but he had a limp and he was. getting on a plane with me, but he had. an RPG round go through his go through. his thigh and not go off and get stuck, right? And uh he's working for our company, totally fine. You know, he has a little. bit of a limp, but you know,

I said, "Well, tell me some stories. about there." cuz he was on the first. end ramp and wow. You know, he's like, "Man, I'm lucky." His attitude was. unbelievable. You know, he's an officer. Came back did whatever. And I was like, "Wow, wow." You know, so when you see it. firsthand, when he's like, "Hey, I'm one. of the lucky ones." You know, because a. lot of his guys and other people, I. mean, they're never, you know, what are. you doing? So, I, you know, maintain the. respect for our service folks. And I um.

I like what's going on now. Not to get. political political, but this shakeup. and kind of I would see it as a return. to our core value of what we're about, right? Not a social experiment, not a. DEI experiment. I mean, here we're here. to do one thing, defend this country. And that doesn't get done with a quality. of outcome. And as noble as that might. be, you know, I remember a cartoon years.

ago. and it showed this little kid and he was. kind of nerdy and his dad was a little. bit older and overweight and he couldn't. get on the football field. He was in. high school. I can't remember why he. marry this. And uh his dad said, "Don't. worry, son." He goes, "What? He's about. 10 years. He'll all be working for you.". Right. But we all have our strengths, right? We all work to our strengths. So, I I like seeing what's going on, you.

know? I mean, not everybody's smart. Some people are stupid. Not everybody's. good-looking. Some people are ugly, right? But this whole, you know, hey, I don't even want to even see what my 40. time would have been when I was 18 years. old. Probably would have been that fast, right? I just wasn't blessed with. certain things, but I did have other. strengths. So, I'd like to see that stuff erased and us. everybody be who everybody is and and. accept who what you can do and you know.

understand what you can't. I think that. better prepares people for the future. >> I do too. >> You know, it's called a reality check. You know, the truth isn't always sweet. You know, it. >> it rarely is. >> It rarely is. >> Well, Keith, it was an honor to. interview you, man. Honor to meet you, brother. I really, really, really, you. know, I I uh. >> welcome home. >> Thank you. And thanks for the invite. I. hope I could,

you know, do justice to your show. >> It was awesome. >> Got a lot of impressive individuals to. your life show. >> You're one of them. >> Appreciate it. Thank you for being on. that way. >> Thank you. [Music]. No matter where you're watching Shan. Ryan show from, if you get anything out. of this, please like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share.

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