Joshua Broome - "Rocco Reed," Inside The Adult Film Industry | #196

I went there and got drugged in. I. thought my fault. I was filming in. Atlanta. It was this disgusting shoot. Like people were like urinating on each. other, spitting on my face, in my mouth, stuff like that. I'm just like, "What. have I become?" I was like, "I want to. die." I didn't realize that that scene. was for the most popular website in. America at that time. When I heard the. pain in her voice, when she said, "Why. did you do that?" Satan said to me,

"See, you're exactly who you thought you. [Music]. were." Joshua Broom, welcome to the. show, man. Man, so glad to be here. What. an honor. I'm pumped to have you. So, we. got a mutual friend, Victor Marks. Huh? What a guy. Victor shot me a text this. morning and uh I love hearing from. Victor. You never know what you're going. to hear, but you never know. But a.

4minute voice memo of just chaos. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But uh I'm pumped that you. know him and and uh that's just. reinforces, you know, you're good people. to be around if Victor's hanging out. with you. So So once again, thank you. for coming, man. And um so we're going. to talk. about a little bit of your life. story and in insight into the adult film. industry, what got you out of it and. being a pastor now. So So and I'm sure.

we'll go down a handful of rabbit holes. Oh yeah. You know, um throughout the. interview, but I'm really curious. You. know, it's I mean the adult film. industry is huge. What's that girl's. name? This is the girl that's she's like. she slept with a thousand guys in 24. hours or something like that. And I and. now like now it seems like all these. other girls are like trying to top it. You just keep hearing this stuff. Like. there was some other girl I think it was. in Miami. She was shooting a film set or.

like some kind of a gang bang or. something on a balcony and like fell off. the balcony to her death. Yeah. I mean, I I think what we're seeing is, you. know, content creation became uh a. legitimized career and then because we. live in an over sexualized culture. Um, and then you you see the the the birth. and rise up of Only Fans, those worlds. kind of intermeshed and it really. happened during COVID. Um during COVID.

um Only Fans uh uh production um people. who were participating in Only Fans went. up by 1,600%. 1,600% 1600% and then porn produ uh porn. consumption went up 400%. Wow. And um but but what you would see. is essentially they were using social. media like a funnel and that you know I'. I've I've met with um many girls who. used to be um in Only Fans or um girls.

that worked on the marketing arm of Only. Fans. And the way they would work is, you know, once a girl became popular, once they became, you know, the top 10%, they would grab that girl and they would. say, "Hey, we're going to represent you. We're going to take great care of you.". and they would bring them um into a. studio and they would shoot all this. stock footage and they'll say, "Hey, uh. we're going to 10x um you know, you're. the way that you're being monetized. because we're going to shoot all this. footage and then we're going to have you.

know, 30 random, you know, guys in a. basement in the Philippines or whatever. Um they're they're going to be chatting. with the people. So, they're going to. have your password. You're not going to. have to be on Only Fans anymore. We're. just going to shoot all this stock. content and it's like catfishing 2.0. I. know where, you know, you pay uh per. message, per video, per picture and then. you got a guy sitting there pretending. to be her and you're talking with these. people and they're saying, you know, whatever in the comments and they're.

just plugging stuff from stock footage. So once a month they just go and shoot. all this footage. Now you got this, you. know, this stuff to work with and you're. just plugging and playing. So now they. can be talking to 30 people at once, but. they're talking to no one at all. And. then, you know, they're getting, you. know, 75 80% of that revenue. Damn. So, you're not even So, to the person that. is, uh, you know, addicted to Only Fans, uh, if you're talking to a popular. creator, I can almost guarantee you. you're not talking to that person. No.

kidding. Why do you think Why do you. think that, uh, I mean, we're going to. get way more in depth on this stuff. later on, but I mean, why where does this [ __ ] end? I mean, it's just it's just I mean, it's like. anything else you see, right? But it's. just they're constantly oneuping each. other like, "Oh, how how you know how. disgusting can I make it?" You know, thousand a. thousand dudes in 24 hours. Yeah. I.

mean, what does that even look like? I. mean, how do you even recruit that? Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, it's it's. pretty easy. Um, and I cuz like I, you. know, I was in the porn industry for. almost seven years and you know when. when girls would do gang bangs. Um, because like guys that were like. professionally like in the industry for. the most part didn't do gang bangs. because a director is not paying, you. know, top, you know, because you you you.

have a day rate. You have an individual. rate that you you make per day. Um, so. you're not paying that per guy, you. know. So, you're you're finding anyone. off the street that's willing to go get. uh an STED and AIDS test. So, you're. you're you're probably you might not be. paying them at all. So, you you know, and these girls again, they got all. these fans. All you do is post a a story. in the comments saying, "Hey, um anyone. in this vicinity that follows me, um do. you want to be part of this? Go get a.

test. Bring the test here and you get to. have sex with me." And it works. And. that's like where like social media is. working like a funnel now where the. girls they're supposed to be provocative. on Tik Tok and in the Tik Tok it says go. to my IG and on IG there's a you know a. a little link in their page and here's. my link tree and on my link tree is my. only fans and it's just a big funnel um. to sell porn. Jeez. Jeez. What do you. Isn't Kanye West getting back into the.

not back into Is he getting into it? He. just had his girlfriend pretty much. naked at whatever award show that was. I. don't follow any of this. Yeah. It's. It's wild being because like And kids. were around. It's like little kids. looking at this. Yeah. Like you see like. Kanye go from someone who was having. these like these like church things. Yeah. Right. and had like pretty decent. like Christian rap come out and then. like really like go on this like bender.

But I would say man like the guy. experienced significant brokenness in. his life. And I think um to the person. and saying man how how could this person. actually know Jesus? I think he liked. the idea of Jesus, but for Jesus to. invade and to to to help you um to. invade your heart, um you have to. surrender and submit. And that's not a. that's not a natural thing. Um. especially to the guy who has, you know,

millions upon millions of dollars and. everyone around him saying like, "You're. the guy, you're the guy, you're the. guy." Um for you to say, "I'm not the. guy." And the the the way to find. healing and wholeness is for me to bend. my knee to the lordship of Jesus Christ. Um that's very different than. acknowledging that something exists. So. I would just say um I think he liked the. idea of Jesus and then he experienced. some brokenness and he was trying really. hard to to be okay and he just wasn't.

Yeah. Cuz he just kind of been up down. up down up down. But I saw like he he. got kicked off of Twitter cuz he just. went on this like rampage. He posted. like porn like for, you know, two or. three hours like non-stop just posting. like hardcore pornography right after um. that happened. Like right after he. showed up to the award show with this. with the girl. Is is it his wife? I. don't know. Or who who I don't follow. any of this stuff, you know? It's like. he was he was married to a Kardashian. and they got you know it's like I I mean.

I don't know what I don't know exactly. what happened but it's sad. It's sad. man. Yeah. You know well I got your I. got your whole life's outline right here. but I don't really want to go down the. outline. I'm I I just I think this is. going to be a very fascinating. conversation and um and so I just want. to riff and I hope you're okay with. that. But, you know, I really want to. talk about, you know, in a lot of my. interviews, we talk about like the. effects of war and and and and extreme.

trauma and how to get over it and what. that does and the rabbit hole, you know, the downward spiral that sends you on. And I got to I just have this feeling. that this is going to be very similar to. that. Absolutely. And um and to be. honest with you, I've been I tried to. get Jenna Jameson to come on here to. talk about this. I've been trying to get. her for years, but uh I think she's got. some health stuff going on, but um but.

yeah, it's just always been a subject. that I'm I've been really interested to. dive into and and especially like I I. don't Are you familiar with like the the. the effects that it you know that it has. on kids? Oh, absolutely. And and the. addictions and all that kind of I mean. this stuff is like. really bad. Yeah. I mean, you you look. at, you know, look at research. Average. age of exposure 3 years ago was 11 is. trending towards 8 years old now. And um. eight 8 years old. And and what's.

interesting, so 84% of first time. exposure to pornography for kids, it's. secondhand exposure, meaning that um. they they weren't looking for it. They. were either on an unprotected device and. it it was looking for them. Um because. we this is the world that we live in. Um. because of streaming and things like. that like you everything has porn on it. Um to the extent depend on what your. definition would of porn would be. Um. and then just you know being at you know.

school or someone else's home and then. it was shown to them. Um but it's crazy. man. um not not to come out swinging, but um I would say probably the most. dramatic thing I would share with you is. that um so a really good friend of mine, she's a she she once was a critical care. nurse in um Kansas City, Missouri. Um. about 6 months ago, she started a. nonprofit and she's just speaking on. this full-time. Um but she started. seeing a reoccurring theme and it was.

that um so she was an examiner for. sexual abuse cases of children and she. was noticing over and over again that um. two things were happening that the. abuser of the child um was between uh 10. to 14 years old and it was a sibling and. she was like well is and and it was a. lot of cases like that in Kansas City. and she's like, "Is there just something.

weird going on here?" And she started. asking her peers in different places. Her name's Where? I think I know where. you're going with this. I interviewed. somebody a while ago or I was talking. with somebody and we we it was we were. talking about like before the show, we. were talking about the sexual. exploitation of kids and Yeah. Are you going into He told me that the. the number. one most searched type of porn is. incest. Yes. Is that where you're going. with this? Yeah. Well, I mean just just.

the reality that So, in around 60% of. the sexual assault cases that happen to. children in the United States, the. perpetrator is a um between uh 10 to 12. uh 10 to 14 years old and b it's a. sibling. So that's it's in the 60% in. the US, it's higher in Europe, highest. in Australia around. 73%. And and then fastest growing niche. of pornography is in sexual, the step.

bro, step. And the reality is 100% of the. cases, the kids are addicted to porn. They're watching porn. They're. developing fantasies and then they're. superimposing these these fictitious. desires. They're imposing them on their. sibling. They're tying up their brother. and sister and raping them because. they've developed an appetite for. something that they don't know what to. do with and the porn doesn't. Um, again, like we were talking earlier, this. belief that you can consume something.

and it not have a real impact on your. output. Like in in what world does that. make sense? You you can't like whatever. you ingest once it metabolizes there has. to be somewhere for it to go. Wow. So to the person thinking um you. know porn's harmless, who can it hurt? Um kids. There you go. And and in at a. significant rate. Well, we'll get more. into that real quick. Let me uh.

everybody starts out with that intro. Joshua Broom, you're a guy who went from. a small town South Carolina to the. bright lights of Hollywood, chasing the. acting dream only to fall into the adult. film industry. You became Rocco Reed, starring in over 1,000 films and raking. in over a million dollars as one of the. top male performers on the planet. You're a man who hit rock bottom, staring down depression and suicidal. thoughts until God stepped in. You're a. voice behind the Counterfeit Culture.

podcast and the unmentionable docue. series. Taking the fight to the very. industry you once ruled. You're now a. pastor, a husband, and a father of four. And uh something else I want to dive. into is spiritual warfare. Yeah. Spring is here and while everybody else. was hibernating, you were out there. crushing your goals and getting after. it. Now it's time to upgrade your gear. That's where ROA comes in. Hit the road.

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hillsdale.edu/srs to enroll in this. course, Understanding Capitalism. There's no cost and it's easy to get. started. That's. hillsdale.edu/srs to enroll for free. Hillsdale.edu/srs. As you know, we got a Patreon account. They're our top supporters. Uh they've. been with us since the beginning when I. was doing this in the attic of my house. and and uh and uh their supports brought. us here and now we're building a new. studio. I got a amazing team who you've.

met. And so one of the things I do is I. offer them uh each and every guest that. comes on, they get the opportunity to. ask a question. And so this one's from. Steven Casey. What would you recommend. to parents of children so that they. could set up their famil family's habits. to prevent their children from being. lured either passively or actively into. the environment that caused you so much. grief and pain and is hurting others, the porn industry? Yeah. I mean, you you.

know this as um someone who was in the. military and you know, anyone that's. been around athletics, um I have to have. uh good self-awareness before I can have. discipline. Um so for for us um as. parents we we we. can't we can't believe that we can just. protect our kids from the world. Um you. know the Bible tells us that bad things. will happen. You know that the world is. a is is not you know a safe place. You.

can't protect your kids from everything. So I would say you the way that you. protect them is you inform them. Um, so. talk about sex in a in a age appropriate. way that is real and that is helpful. Um, there's a there's a book called a. good book. Um, I think it's good book, bad pictures and um, so it's I think. it's been around for about 20 years, but. there's a there's a theme in it that's. helpful for even adults. There are bad.

pictures in the world that you probably. will see, but if you see those pictures, that doesn't make you bad. So if you see them, if you're hungry, run to mom and dad. Scared? Run to mom. and dad. See something you shouldn't. see, come tell mom and dad so that we. can process it with you. Because if you. don't create a space to have that. conversation, what you don't talk about. says something. Mhm. So I would say. that's that's the biggest problem with. porn sex, you know, in the church. um.

where it's not talked about um in the. way that gives people a comfortability. of talking about it because anytime that. you would say porn or sex and and you. cringe uh you probably have an unhealthy. relationship with it, you know. So like. say hey um you know sex is this. beautiful thing. This is how you got. here you know to your son to your. daughter and you know explain it in a. way that makes sense. And also uh we. need to protect oursel from the world. The world is a dangerous place trying to. come at us. So Bark is uh a really great.

um piece of technology where you you. know bark.org is the website and uh you. get to control everything that your. children has access to if they're going. to use any kind of smart technology. And. what I love about it is you get a report. of everything that they see and. everything that they're sent. So if if. you are allowing them to use text. messages, emails, things like that, you. will get a notification if someone's, you know, there's bullying, there's any.

kind of conversation around self harm. either by them or someone else, um. anything pornographic, any uh key words, um and then you can have a healthy. conversation where instead of being. accusatory of, hey, um I I know that I. saw this, you know, you know that I saw. this, so you know, you know, fess up. Y. you can say, "Hey, um is there anything. that you know was said to you or you saw. today that you want to talk about with. me?" Um so I would say that's that's how. we have to navigate that conversation.

because what we don't say is not. helpful, but it also says something. Yeah. Because you know, Romans 12:2, either you're being conformed by the. world or being transformed by the. renewing of your mind. So, the world is. going to teach you. Um, but the the. prince of the air, the the devil wants. to teach you something that's. drastically different than what God. wants to teach you. Yeah. You know, I. mean, with the phone stuff, we were just. talking about Ryan Montgomery, my. friend, before the podcast, and he he. had an interesting quote that made a. hell of a lot of sense to me. He said,

"When you give when you give your kid a. phone, you're not giving your your kid. access to the world. You're giving the. world access to your kid." And that's. resonated with me ever since. And you. know, but you had mentioned you had. mentioned it age appropriate when what. what is age appropriate now? I mean, you. just mentioned earlier that eight years. old is 8-year-olds. How old are your. kids? So, my my kids uh so Canon is. almost seven. Um but so six, four,

three, and one. Um, so I mean, for. example, Canon, uh, last year when he. was still six, um, he I there's this, uh, this apologetics camp that I always. speak at and I teach sexual ethic and he. comes with me, um, because I'm not. saying anything that's inappropriate. I'm saying everything that's true and. everything that I'm saying is is. biblically accurate. Um, so he he's. heard me, you know, he's he sits, you. know, up on stage and, you know, he's. probably like drawing, you know, Paw.

Patrol or something like that, but he. he's hearing me, he's listening. Um, so. I would say it's it's like there there's. no like line in the sand um with kids. Just, you know, uh pay attention to them. and just know your kids. I mean, how do. you how do you bring it up? Yeah. Have. you had any one-on- ones yet? Yeah. I. mean, you know, just like, you know, just the fact that we've got four kids, like mommy's pregnant, you know, where. where is this baby coming from? You. know, um, you know, mommy's parts are.

different than ours, you know, yet. we're, you know, she's she's uh, you. know, outmanned in our house. significantly. Um, but they're just. asking questions, you know, like what, you know, wh why why why do I have. something different than mom? Um, you. know, what where do babies come from? Stuff like that. uh they're just kind of. naturally inquisitive. So, we just tell. them the truth, you know, and I think. you but like you don't we don't get, you. know, over uh we don't overexlain.

ourselves. We just say it, you know, matter of fact and it is what it is. And. I think like when you make when you make. it a bigger deal than it should be, it. becomes a big deal, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think about this stuff. all the time, you know. I got a got. little little ones. Yeah. And um and uh. it just man the [ __ ] that's out there. now just is terrifying. Yeah. And I I I. can see how it. will I mean it it it can.

destroy your mind. Yeah. In those. certain aspects. of in just so many ways. Well, well, another thing, um, you know, I was. sharing with you around like the the. whole, um, incest thing, um, regarding. like the niche in pornography and and. all the stuff that's happening with, um, sexual assault. But in addition to that, um, you know, imagebased like sexual. exploitation, you know, that that's a. new thing that's on the rise and.

especially with young men. But the the. importance of like kids not watching. porn is this. Uh there's a there's a new. scam that's on the rise and I think um. like so far this year this has happened. I think around like 170,000 times that's. been documented where um a kid was. approached by a scammer and it you know. they have a fictitious profile looks. like a cute girl and they have an. interaction with a guy and they say um. you know that they they send them a fake.

naked picture and they said you send me. one back And once they send one, got. you. Okay. I I want you to send me $500. or I've I've hacked your account. I'm. gonna send this photo to everyone in. your school, all of your family. You got. 24 hours. And I think around 150 of. those kids committed suicide. Wow. Cuz as a teenage boy, you're like, "My whole life is ruined." Yeah. Or a.

girl. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And it's wild. because around like around 90% of those. cases are are guys. Um but yeah, I mean. that it's it's it's everywhere. That's. why it's so important to have those. conversations because you you don't send. a naked photo to someone you don't know. online unless you've been watching. pornography. Like that's not, you know, a rational thought unless your mind has. been corrupted and perverted in a way.

that and I, you know, maybe there's a, you know, exceptions to this, but for. the most part, like that thinking comes. from pornography. Yeah. You I I mean, I was talking to. somebody else and they were talking. about, you know, how this, you know, it. starts it starts with regular it starts. with, I don't know, Sports Illustrated. Yeah. And then it's and then it's. Playboy and then. it's softcore porn and then it's. hardcore porn and then it's gang bangs.

and then it's you know it just gets and. then it it goes into the incest stuff. and it they were talking about how young. young men boys get addicted to this and. it just keeps getting you know more. perverted and more perverted and more. perverted and at the same time the kids. that are the same age the girls are. online and they're getting exploited. and they're only talking to older men. online because or they get they get.

trapped like you were just saying, but. it's it's hey, do you want this Louis. Vuitton bag? Cool. Send me this. Then. they're blackmailed. Or they're not and. they're only interested in older men. because they shoot some pictures or take. some videos of themselves for the the. new iPhone, a new purse, whatever the. latest fad is. And so that takes the. interest away from the boys. So then the. boys don't even have anybody to go date. and it's like this [ __ ] I mean that's.

why I mean we live we we're living in a. postChristian United States. Um I mean. luckily there there's been some you know. progress in the right direction. I saw. um Bible sales are up 22%. You. know but for the most part it's like the. world is looking dark and bleak in in in. some ways. Um, but yeah, it's it's nuts, man. Yeah. Yeah. Well, everybody gets a. gift on the show.

Vision gummy bears. Thank you so much. Made in the USA. No funny business. Just. candy. They're horrible for you, but. they taste great. Awesome. Thank you so. much. Yeah, you're welcome. I have. something for you. Oh, nice. So, I have. uh a copy of my book. um copy of my book and and what I love. to do so that book so seven lies that'll. ruin your life. So really it's like hey. here's seven lies from culture that. negatively impacted my life and then uh.

here's seven truths from God's word that. kind of eradicated that lie and gave me. a new foundation to stand on. And if. you, you know, kind of like a a a. progressive overloading like workout. plan, if you do, you know, 10 sets of. two, uh, for 10 weeks, you will get. stronger. In the same way, if you apply. God's word, um, to your life, your life. will change. Um but man um my life like. just me me being in this room you know.

what how how you know like God had a. plan you know but I would say um my life. has been made up of people inviting me. into places that I don't have any. business being into um because they saw. something in me and people that gave me. time that they didn't have and uh so. this is my friend uh Jonathan Pluda's. new book it says you're It's called Your. Story Has a Villain. And he just did. like a like a two or three year deep. dive into spiritual warfare. Um grew up.

Catholic. Um kind of, you know, threw it. by the wayside and kind of lived for the. world and, you know, was very successful. in the marketplace and then came to. faith later in life. And, you know, he's. he's been part of, you know, some of. those college revivals that you've seen. like baptizing thousands of people at uh. college campuses and stuff. But he was a. part of that. Yeah. Yeah. So, he's he's. one of the he's one of the people that. have been part of each event. Um him and. Jenny Allen along with um Tanya. But. yeah, so he's there preaching at every.

event and baptizing those kids. Um but. it's wild. But um because he poured into. this guy Andrew that poured into me and. uh just kind of a neat disciplehip. circle. But I wanted to give you that. Thank you. um cuz I love love giving. people you know literature that was uh. it's simple, it's clear and uh you know. it was uh it was it was game changer for. me but he's somebody that you know uh. Proverbs 276 talks about the wounds of a.

friend and while you know sometimes you. need to hear um you know encouragement. but you know every once you need a kick. in the butt you know so yeah thank you. wait to dive we've been tracking this. guy tracking this guy yeah he's a good. good friend of mine so he he lives in. Waco. So, he pastors a church in Waco, so a little bit north of me in Dallas. Interesting. Um, but phenomenal dude. Phenomenal dude. I He's He's the He's. the biggest, tallest person that I know. that does not play basketball.

Right on. Well, I love the spiritual. warfare topic. It's fascinating. So, we'll uh Oh, yeah. He's got You have to. ask him about Victor Elsa. I will. I. will. Yeah. But um well, let's So I know. you grew up in South Carolina, correct? And um I mean, how how how old were you. when you got into the porn industry? Yeah. Um if I could if I could take what. you said and just back up a little bit, I think it um so important. So um grew.

up in South Carolina. Uh mom got. pregnant with me when she was 15, had me. at 16 in a like super small town, like. you know, one gas station, one grocery. store, and um my dad was in that town, but never in my life. And my mom worked. at this. like flounder and fried chicken, you. know, like restaurant. And that it had. like big glass windows. and the windows.

I would sit there and I would eat pretty. much the same. thing. I'd pretty much eat the same. thing um after school every day. Um this. is what I was earlier, but I would I. would uh I would look out that window. and it was called Rogers was called the. convenience store and Rogers is my. grandfather and also so it and my father. was Roger Dell Jr. and he was Roger Dell. senior and I saw the convenience store. and I saw the the green Z71 like pull up.

every once in a while and um so I I I. saw him be your dad. It was my dad and I. I I saw him. So he it was he was in. close enough proximity for me to see him. often but never know him and I was. confronted with so I was confronted with. you know um over and over again not. being chosen and um you know just the. way that attachment theory works you. know neurologically just how we develop.

an understanding of our emotions. It's. like, man, um, I had this conflict and. this chaos that I didn't understand. And. the way that I made sense of it, well, must be on me, you know, there must be. something wrong with me that he's not. choosing me. So, the best I can do is is. try to overcome. How How young were you when you started. seeing that? Um, I. mean, 9 10. I mean, when I when I.

started like comprehending it. Um, but. it went all the way through. Yeah. My. whole life, you know, up until graduated. high school. No interaction at all. Just. looking at him through a window. Yeah. I. mean, I I there was probably like a few. times where there was some fumbled, awkward attempt for us to have a. conversation. Um he was never there was. never any malice involved but. um it was just it was just strange you. know and I and in retrospect um at a.

place now I I can have an understanding. of man um you know what what stays in. the dark grows and you know the to today. is the easiest day to apologize for the. some the thing that you did today. you. know, uh, tomorrow it's going to be even. harder and, you know, the next day and. the next day and next day, it's just. going to compound over time, especially. if there's shame involved. So, I I don't. think he's like, man, I I don't want to. be this kid's dad. U, maybe he didn't.

know what to say and then so much time. passed by, he just became crippled by. it. Um, but either way, it impacted me, you know. Yeah. And, uh, so then I I go. to college, study theater. I was in a. fraternity, all the stuff. And um I was. sharing earlier with someone um one of. your team members. I was sharing how my. fraternity brother was the one who. taught me how to tie a tie for the first. time cuz our fraternity we wore, you. know, suit and tie on Tuesdays and a.

pin. And uh they were like, "Man, you. can't be wearing a clip on. You know, you you'll get a smackdown for that.". And I was like, "Man, I don't know how. to tie a tie." And I remember my big. brother like teaching me how to tie this. like single Windsor tie. And uh at you. know stuck with me forever you know and. um just like moments like that it was I. it's this like duality of um I'll always. be this like kid that his daddy didn't. want but also like man um I need guys in. my life to teach me something. Mhm. you.

know, um but but kind of like with with. that. foundation, I believed at my, you know, core of my being is like, man, um if I. earn enough, if I become enough, if I do. enough, maybe I'll feel as if I'm. enough. Mhm. And what I really wanted to. hear was, "Son, I'm proud of you." And. because I never heard that, I thought I. could earn it from the world.

Yeah. And you know, I was just kind of. one of those guys where like everything. I did, I found success in. Like I was a. good I was a good ball player. I was. good at acting. I had a lot of success. in modeling. Um so kind of took that to. to Hollywood and I was I had an agent. and I was I was having more success in. modeling than acting, but everything was. great. I was living in Hollywood, had a. great place to stay, had a good friend. group, had a great agent, had. opportunities. But I just want to.

backtrack real quick. I mean that I. think that affects a lot of people. Oh. yeah. And you know with my kids, I've. made it a point I make it a point to. make sure I tell my kids I'm proud of. them every day, multiple times a day. Tell them why I'm proud of them. Not. just, hey, I'm proud of you. I tell them. why I'm proud of them. And even if they. don't understand, you know, it's it's.

it's it's in there. Yeah. I think I. think what what you said is is so. important that that added layer cuz it's. one thing um to say I'm proud of you or. you did a good job. Um or or whatever. that might be, but when you make it. intentional and explain why, um I feel. like that would be even more meaningful. and and allow them to understand. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean kind of all. that foundation led me to that moment of.

of of being in, you know, being in. Hollywood and, you know, still acting. like an idiot, like living like an. absolute fool. Um, but, you know, kind of with all that. factored in, I saw porn for the first. time when I was 13. Um, never, you know, saw my mom in a healthy relationship. She was married for a very short period. of time to someone who was very abusive. drug addict. Um so outside of that I. never saw her in a healthy dynamic. Um.

my grandmother and grandfather they. didn't sleep in the same bed. My. grandfather was like fishing every day. you know like um bad back or whatever. They didn't share a bed. But I just had. no like foundation of what is a healthy. relationship, what is love, what is. intimacy, what is, you know, never had a. sex talk. Saw porn when I was 13 and I. thought, man, um, maybe if I act out. what I'll what I'm seeing in this.

magazine, maybe I'll feel what I don't. And, you know, that was kind of the the. start of me living a very promiscuous. lifestyle. In addition to that, were you. going to Did you ever did you ever did. your dad ever come into the. picture still to this day? Well, I mean, I have a I have a really great story. about. forgiveness. Um because at the at the. end of the day, it's like I I I'd say um. I love that I get to share. Thank you. for asking that. Um, and I I love that I.

have the platform that I do today with. the maturity that I do because when I. used to talk about. him, when I used to talk about him, um, I think I did it in a way that I was. still a little bit angry with him. Um, but I've I forgave him and it was just. it was a big moment for me because you. know when like forgiveness is easy or.

easier. when you know that reconciliation is on. the other side. Um, but when. reconciliation doesn't meet your. expectations, are you still willing to. forgive? Um, meaning that, um, why would. I forgive my dad if he's not going to. become my dad and become a grandfather. to my kids? Why would I forgive him? Um, why would I forgive the person that's. not going to change? Why would I forgive. the person that did wrong and is not.

going to, you know, be sorry for it or. pay a price for that? Like I I. understand that God is, you know, a a. God of justice and and justice will be. served in the end, but um we often find. ourselves saying, I I want to play God. in some way. I want to control the. outcome. I want to have some kind of. autonomy, and I'll forgive. if not in the not in God's economy, not. in God's kingdom. Um we forgive because.

we've been forgiven. And when you don't. forgive, the thing that um the person. who pays the price is you. And um for a. long time I was dealing with man like. you know it was on the other side of me. conquering all these other things like. all these addictions and traumas and. lust and all this stuff but I was still. wrestling with a little bit of anger. issues. And um it was because I would. like in my heart of hearts I would say, man um the the the messed up stuff that.

people say about me um or say about me. to my wife or say about my kids or. whatever. Um there was a little part of. me that said, um, "Dad, if you would. have been there, I wouldn't have done. those things and this wouldn't have been. happening." So, it's kind of your. fault. And I had to come to come to. grips with that's not.

true. Like my trauma impacted the way. that I saw the world. Yes. Um but I I. upon my own valition, I made those. decisions. I have free will. So I had to. take ownership of my mistakes and I had. to let go of that for with him. So um so. I I speak about him very differently. I. speak with him uh I speak about him with. more empathy today than I have in the. past. Um we don't have the relationship.

that I wish we did. But. where'd you learn forgiveness from? Victor. Me too. Me too. Really? Yeah. No. [ __ ] after hearing his. story and he forgave his dad and what he. did. Yeah. I was like, whoa. And he. called me one day and told me I. needed to forgive somebody for something. they did that that is a friend of his. And I was like, "Are you [ __ ] asking.

me to forgive this asshole?" And he's. he's like, "Yes, I am." And I was. like I was. like, "Man, after what you've been. through, it's really hard to say no to. you, but I'll figure out how to do it." And. you know what I realized? For me, at. least, forgiveness isn't for the other. person. Forgiveness is for yourself. because you imprison yourself and that.

[ __ ] resentment and that. anger and it just never leaves. and. every time the you know the name comes. up it's. like but if you can and it's hard it is. hard man to just let it. go. Um you. like you pull yourself out of that. prison and uh but I learned that from. Victor too and I tell people that and I. don't you know I don't I don't know if. it resonates or not but you have to. think of that's how that's how I have to.

think of it. If I don't forgive this. person, it's going to eat me alive. Yeah. And uh and it will eat you alive. Yeah. And uh and when I was able to do. it, like it, man, it's like having a. 10,000lb rucks sack lifted off your. back. Oh, yeah. But so so you forgave. your dad? Yeah. Did you tell him that? Yeah. How did that go? I mean, it was. super emotional. I mean, I I was I was.

so like I made up my mind what I was. going to say before, you know, it got. too far. So, as soon as I got him on the. phone, I I said it soon. And um he. apologized. And what did he say? He He. didn't I I don't remember much about it, you know. It was. more It wasn't this like he's not an. emotional guy, you know. It was like It. wasn't like I conjured up in my head. I. thought it was going to be this like.

great this groundbreaking moment where, you know, I thought it was going to be. like, you know, Rocky and Apollo like, you know, dapping up on the beach. Um, but yeah, I mean, what did you say? I said, well, I said, I I'm I'm sorry. that I've blamed you for every bad thing. that I've ever done, and I've been holding a lot of. resentment for you not being there, and. I missed you a lot. I needed you.

Um, but the the frustration that I have. in my life and the unforgiveness that I. have in my heart, I want to let it go. and he pretty much said me too, you. know, and said he was sorry for not. being there. Um, that was kind of it. And I think, you know, my my prayer is. that my life and the way that I pursue.

him is healing for him in some way. because I can't. imagine what goes on in in his head, in. his heart internally. Yeah, that's what. I was just going to say, too. Another. thing that kind of it helps me is. knowing. like I mean you have to be able to like. I guess you don't have to but to put. yourself in their shoes and to have to. carry the guilt of never being.

around had a. massive part in how things turned out or. how they didn't turn out. Yeah. And I. mean it. they're going to carry that [ __ ] for the. rest of their life. They think about. this stuff unless they're a total. narcissist, you know, which most people. aren't. I mean, that's every day of. their life that's haunting them. Yeah. You know, and and um and that impacts.

everyone they touch. Yep. Yep. Man. Well, all right. So, back to back. to Hollywood. Yeah. Um yeah. So kind of. all that leading up to me being in. Hollywood and um I was at this uh this. bar um saddle ranch, so like mechanical. bulls and all this stuff. And uh these. three girls walk up to me and they were.

head hunters um for the porn industry. they worked with uh a porn agent and. they asked me straight up like hey um. would you be interested in being in a. porn and I was. like not really you know but maybe um I. didn't have a I think it's like when you. don't have a good reason to say no. sometimes you say yes to something you. should say no to you know um but they. you know like some people ask me like. was is there a correlation between sex.

trafficking and the porn industry and. think about. trafficking, you know, generally. involves force, fraud, and coercion. And. you know, people ask me, well, you know, is that does some of that exist in the. porn industry? It doesn't exist. It is. completely dependent on it. It's manipulation is, you know, a at the. cornerstone of the porn industry and.

that the girls were trained to use. language where they're in a place where, you know, a lot of people are trying to. make it and they're using, you know, meet with our agent and you'll do an. interview and you'll, you know, he'll. help you with your career and and all. that stuff. you know, you'll and it's. it's almost. like, you know, when when we say things. or when we call things different than. what they are, it creates this. unrealistic. barrier. And that, you know, we we say.

um we don't want to say porn, we say. adult film industry, yet porn is a word. that is from the the Greek New. Testament. So, porna um and it's, you. know, but we we want to say adult film. industry, but when we say that trying. not to be abrasive, what are we saying? We we're we're insinuating that that's. adult behavior. That's how adults act, you know. Um so, it's just so. interesting that they would use specific. language of saying agent this and that.

and then they essentially they were. like, "Hey, if you want to do. this, I'll you know, you'll meet with. our agent." And I was like, you know, I've been watching porn for a long time. I've been acting like an idiot forever. If I get paid for what I'm already. doing, like maybe, you know, that would. be cool. How old are you at this point? 22. You're only 22? Yeah. And uh I could I mean, just being. totally honest. If I was 22 and got. approached with that, I probably have. been, "Yes." Yeah. You're going to pay.

me to bang hot women. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Let's do it. That's pretty much what I. heard. Sign. Yeah. And I and I go and I. meet with this guy and um and it's three. attractive women. Three smoking hot. girls. The approach. Yeah. And um Yeah. So I I'm like sure I'll meet with the. guy, you know, like Mhm. And I thought, so I I had I had like in my head I'm. like, if it's. weird, I'll just, you know, hide if if.

I'm if I go to the place and it's. like, you know, at a hostel or at like. a, you know, Yeah. Yeah. some sketchy. like motel and he's like a guy like. picking lint out of his belly button, you know? I'm just going to get out of. there. But it was at, you know, uh, like. a business. complex in Studio City adjacent to. Universal Studios. Walk in, you know, they brought me in through like the like. underground like parking garages and.

they're just like, you know, the. Bentleys and Beamers everywhere and I go. up and walk through this hallway and. he's got, you know, almost like if you. were a sport agent, how you would have. all, you know, any players you. represent. So there were, you know, anyone that was on the cover of. Penthouse, Playboy, Hustler, whatever. And I'm walking through and sit there. reception. It's like, you know, his name. is Derek. And like Derek will be right. with you. And I'm waiting and there's. like porn on the, you know, the coffee. table in the, you know, waiting area. He.

calls me into his office and sits me. down. He's like, "So tell me, um, how. did you grow. up? What are you doing in LA? And um. what do you hope to accomplish? How did you grow up? I know. But like in. in retrospect, I didn't think about it, but looking for broken homes. Yeah. Well, yeah. Like did did you grow up not. having something that I can that I can. use to manipulate you to do what I want. so I can extract value from you? 100%. Yes. That's what he was saying. But I.

was too naive to hear it. How'd you grow. up? Just me and my mom. Perfect. You. know, should have been a red a red flag. It was a green flag for him. Um, what do. you know what do you you know what are. you doing in LA? Modeling, acting, you. know, doing what most people are out. here doing, trying to make it, trying to. live out my dream, whatever. What year. is this? Uh, this is. 2006. 20 2006. And um and then he was like, "Well, what. do you hope to accomplish?" And I was.

like, "Yes, be famous." And um what's. sad about that is, you know, famous. is, you know, objective. It's it's. fictitious because, you know, if you. think um you know, if if enough people. know, you know, how many people need to. know who I am to equate to being famous? Like how many followers do you need to. have? You know, like what's what's the. mark? And if there's no mark, there's no. measure. If there's no measure, there's.

no reality, you know? And if you if you. get to the place that you thought if you. would get to that you would feel some. sort of way and you don't you just. increase the measure. Um you know being rich is the same way. It's like if I had this I would feel. that you know over and over and we we. know the deal. It doesn't work. But I. thought man if I become somebody I will. feel like I'm somebody. And again, what. I was trying to do is I I was trying to,

you know, stack the scale in my favor. enough. where this the kid that didn't have the. dad would feel like I was wanted, seen, heard, known. And he kind of spoke into all. that. He's like, man, he's like, you've. got acting experience. Um, the porn. industry is shifting. We're paring all. these movies. They're doing big films. Like, you can be the lead in all these. Um, you can make a ton of money. Like. you can do like by doing the films and. you can do, you know, marketing with.

this. I've got deals with clubs in. Vegas. They'll bring you out. They. you'll sit in the VIP and they'll. they'll pay you $10,000 just to be. there, you know, like all this. stuff. And you know, like my career was. going okay. Um, but I was having more. success modeling than I was acting. And. I really wanted to act. That was my. passion. Um, but I but there was a part. of me again I I couldn't shake that like. man um maybe I'm just not good enough to.

make it. You know, at 22. um you know, your modeling career is is. not peaked out, but you know, most. people have their their best years. modeling like 16 to 21. Um not that's. not definitively true across the board, but you know, a lot of people do. acting. has this big, you know, a lot longer, you know, range. And I just thought, man, I just. don't have the capability of being. successful.

because, you know, what was that based. on? Well, me, you know, comparing myself on my. peers and a lot of people that were in. the same network as me or even had the. same agent as me, they were doing, you. know, they had booked their first lead. role or they've done this and they've. done that and I hadn't quite done as. much as they've done, so I must not be. good enough. And I thought, man, u maybe. this is just a, you know, a counterfeit. version of the dream that I have and I I.

should hop on this boat before it leaves. because maybe this is good as it's going. to get for me. Did he tell you that as. well during the meeting? Did he destroy. your dreams of what you wanted to do to. get what you wanted? I did that to. myself. You did that to yourself? He. threw all this money on on and. everything on you right at the get-go. Yeah. And I and I and I said, "Okay, well, you know, where where do we. start?" And it was so interesting. because So, you were already in before. you were in. Yeah. Um Well, at least I.

was like, "Well, I'm I'm I'll do one, you know, I'll do one. We'll see." You. know, and um he's like, "Okay, well, you. got to go get a full STD test and AIDS. test." And um when that panel comes. back, it generally takes 24 hours. when. that panel comes back, um, you know, I'll set up a shoot for you. And I was. like, you know, great. Sounds good. I. was thinking like, all right, I'm going. to get paid to like, you know, take a.

camcorder and go like hook up with this. hot girl and and then I'm going to get a. check. I do the test. I go there and. it's full-blown like like any other. like, you know, the biggest project I've. done. Yeah. I I I walk in as a. receptionist and it's so interesting. I'd love to to to dig into this um come. back to it. So they give me paperwork to. sign. This is how you get paid. Sign. here. Sign here. Sign here. So so many.

people they own the IP. Oh yeah. Yeah. All of it. Yeah. All of it. 100%. So so. many people ask, you know, they just. like especially when they see that I'm a. Christian and specifically see that I do. ministry vocationally. Um they're like, "Well, um did you give the money back. and are what are you doing the the with. the residuals? What are you doing with. the royalties?" Royalties and residuals. don't exist in porn. You're a day rate. employee and you you give away.

everything. But not only do you sign. away everything, what you're signing, the last thing you sign is it it's. saying that um they reserve the right to. uh disperse and to sell to as many third. parties for and an and you know a. forever you know time limit. Um, so. they, so what happens is you do a porn. and all of a sudden my pictures are on. dating sites, my pictures are on sex. toys, my pictures are on billboards. Am.

I compensated for any of that? No. You know, um, but anyway, that I. sign all that paperwork and I walk in. and there's, you know, girls in a in a. makeup chair and, you know, like a big, you know, studio. There's catering. There's all this stuff. And then there's. this like dayb bed and there's this like. sea of lights around this girl and you. know the the PA that's with me is like. that's the girl you're going to be. working with. Um she's taking you know. some.

photos. She's taking some photos and um. we'll need you about 30 40 minutes. We. understand this is your first time. So. here's a Viagra. Put it in my hand. He's. like if you've never taken it before I'd. buy it in half. I was like oh my gosh. like what, you know, what have I gotten. myself into? And I'm like in the. bathroom like, you know, still, you. know, pretty much a kid, you know, and. I'm like talking to myself in the mirror. like, you know, what are you going to. do? And um and I felt.

like I'd gone too far to turn back, but. again, everything's so intentional. You. knew it wasn't the right thing, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, I I'm just waiting on. my mom to jump out and like judo chop me. in the throat. Um, but but but so. intentional. I got I got picked up in a. town car. I was not told the address. that I was going to. So, what did I have. to do if I wanted to. leave? I'd have to call the agent and. say, "Hey, you know, like a kid that.

went to a sleepover that changed their. mind." Like, "Hey, you know, I I you. know, I'm scared. I want to come. home." So, I I felt like I couldn't make. that call. I think so many of us will will do. something and we believe the lie that's. from. Satan. Uh we'll believe a lie that's. from Satan that um you've gone too far. to turn back. So your only choice is to. keep. going. And that's kind. of what I did. So I I popped the whole.

thing, drank a bottle of. water and walked out there and waited a. few minutes and you know when you take. Vagger you start to get feel like feel. blotchy like in your chest and and I was. like I was like am I going to pass out. like what you know what's going on and. um they kind of waved me over and I. never had any kind of interaction with. the girl like I never nothing like never. talked to her like I didn't even know. like what her stage name was or real.

name was. I wasn't sure because all you. do is you so you sign that. So they have. uh photo copies of her ID and then uh a. print out of her STD and AIDS test. And. you have to see that the test is. current. So it has to be um 27 days or. newer and um her ID has to be valid and. not expired. So I had to look at that. match the names and I had to sign that I. saw it and that was the only interaction.

I had with her walk over to the you know. to the scene and you know pretty much. the you know this is this is still this. is you know somewhat back in the day so. like bigger cameras. So the director in. has this camera and the video v uh. videographer has this big camera and. he's kind of like over my shoulder and. the girl is not looking at me looking at. the camera. So it's like you know the. the fantasy that you you you become to.

believe when you watch porn is there's. this like intense connection between the. girl and the guy is 100% disconnection. No kidding. Well, because the director. is telling you what to do and telling. you how to do it, and you're not having. sex for pleasure. You're having sex for. show. So, it literally has to show. So, you're strategically doing it in a way. that is. visible. So, it's very. uncomfortable and and you're it's it's.

performance art at best. It's certainly. not sex regarding what we would know it. to be. Um, so I that happens and I was like, man, um, I felt pretty disgusting. afterwards. How long does it take? I. mean, you know, it it just depends on. like what's going on, what it is. How. many people were in the room? Probably. 20. 20 people. Yeah, it was it was wild.

I mean, like again, like there was, you. know, boom mic over my head, someone. literally like holding a sea light like. underneath my junk. Um, holy [ __ ] You. know, camera A, camera B, someone. shooting BTS, you know. Um, the most of. the girls, they either have, you know, um, someone that's there with them. Uh, they would call them a boyfriend more. often than not, a pimp. Um, that's. that's there watching. Um, you know, sometimes How many women.

had you slept with before this. approximately? I mean, probably. hundreds. Hundreds of 22. or may maybe not 100 but probably a. hundred man. And uh but I did that and I. was like I felt man that was and I just. I can't I just always remember it. So on. my way home I'm in this town car going. home and it's like like what about. afterwards? Hold on. What about.

afterwards? Is there any interaction. with the other with the woman with the. talent? No. Like as soon as you finish. like you move cuz like as soon as you. orgasm like they they want to take. pictures of that and then you get you. just like you you're like you're done. shuffled out. Oh yeah. And then they. want to take photos and and. stuff. Yeah. So you're you're out of. there. But I it was like it was so. interesting. So there was like showers. on set. Um but I remember there there.

was like there was not body wash in the. shower. There was just like dial hand. soap. Um, and I was just like trying to. wash myself with that. And then I'm in. the town car and I'm on my way home and. I was like I could still feel the like. lube in the hair on my legs. I just felt. gross. And then I got home and I like. took this like shower. Um, have you seen. Redeeming Love? No. It's just it's a. it's a it's a faith-based film, but.

essentially there's a girl that works in. a brothel. She meets a guy that has a. faith. They connect and he's kind of. like trying to a faith. A faith. Yeah. Um and you know, he's trying to lead her. to the Lord and also like wanting to be. with her, but like for us to be together. like I want you to follow the. Lord. And there's this point where she's. and man, I can just relate to this so. much where like there's something inside.

her that was craving the only thing that. she knew which was chaos cuz like you. know he's in a in a in a cottage on a. farm now. They're eating good food. Um. but that's it. They're on a farm. It's. just him and her. This is like, you. know, this is pre um, you know, television and internet, you know, it's. just. them. It was like she was going crazy. not experiencing chaos and she ended up.

going back to the brothel and she, you. know, turned a trick. and it it didn't feel the same and she. felt so dirty and so disgusting. She. couldn't believe that she went back to. the thing that she wanted to be rescued. from. And there's this scene where she's. in this like river and she's got a rock. and she's scrubbing her body, but what. she's trying to scrub off is not on a. surface level. Mhm. Mhm. And man, I've.

took many of those showers. Damn. And uh but I was like, never going to do. it again. It hit you right off the bat. Oh, I was it was before it even. happened. And I got paid like 500 bucks. and I was like, man, like I paid 500. bucks to do that. And. like I mean it it was not sexy. The girl. was not super attractive. There there. was there was no there was no positive. experience. Like I mean I I could make.

$500 like bartending at a bar in. Hollywood. I mean there's like 500 bucks. for that. I'm. like, what a mistake that was. You know, I'm out. But, you know, 2006, different. world. So, that I I didn't realize that. that scene was for the most popular. website um the most popular porn website. in America at that time. And they they. they they shoot like three to five.

scenes a day and they post every day. So, the turnaround was pretty quick. So, it was up the next week. What was the. website? Uh it was like Naughty America. or something like. that. And um it was like so all of a. sudden like a few of my fraternity. brothers and then a few other people was. like dude I saw you on this website. I. saw you on this website. I saw you on. this website. And then you know you know. being from a small town the thing about. a small town. It only takes one person. to know one thing about your life for. everyone to know everything about your. life. And someone told my uncle at work.

and then my uncle told my mom and then I. get a phone call from my mom and you. know growing up in the south like how. much of your name is used is how much. trouble you're in and I heard you know. when I answered the phone like Joshua. Luke. Broom did you do a porn you know did you. do a did you do a porno film and I was. like I was like I did. mom and like in that moment. like Satan just put his foot on my.

throat because I already believed there. was something wrong with. me. But I I can remember it so clearly. because when I heard the pain in her. voice when she said, "Why did you do. that?" Satan said to me, "See, you're exactly who you thought you. were. You're not a kid that does bad things.

You are. bad. And then I begin to. shrink. And I begin to believe, man, I. hurt the only person that ever hurt. me. Maybe I'm not even good enough to be. her son. And then a few days go by and then my. manager calls. me. Normally when they want me to come. by the agency to have an inerson meeting.

is a good thing. It's like, "Hey, here's. an offer on the table and you know, let's assess it. Do you want to accept. it?". Now, your name's attached to a a. pornography website. That's a big. problem for us. I think a lot of you, but we're gonna have to end our. professional. relationship. Fired. So now I'm. like, now what? I blew up my whole life.

Damn. Or the very first one. So then. like, well, what do I do? And then I. begin to believe the the lie that the. only thing that I could do as a. 22-year-old is continuing to do the very. thing that created so much turmoil in my. life because that was the only viable. option. And in perfect timing, agent. calls me, porn agent calls me, hey. man, that that scene went viral. I'd.

love to offer you a. contract. Hold on. What did your mom say. after you told her yes? She was hurt, disappointed, um told me. that I probably need to move back. home. Damn. And if I'm honest, I didn't know. what to. say. I didn't say anything because I. didn't know what to say, you know? Um I.

didn't say I was sorry. Um I just kind of. Yeah. You know, I did. it. I didn't know what to do, so I. didn't say anything. How's your. relationship with your mom today? Oh, so. good. It is. Yeah. Good. I'm happy to. hear that. Yeah. But yeah, I mean that um that the. porn agent calls me and like, "Hey, you. know, want to sign you to a contract.". And so I doubled down. I was like, well,

you know, I' I'd found some way to for. the most part everything that I've done. in life I'm relatively successful at. And I thought, well, I have good work. ethic. Um, I I have good communication. and people skills, so I feel like I can. really figure out this industry. So, I I. feel like I can become the guy. And I. did, you know, over seven years I did. over a thousand. films, won around 20 different awards,

directed for some big companies, wrote. some movies, starred in, you know, some. of the biggest, you know, grossing. movies that they've, you know, ever put. out like in the porn industry. And uh. cuz they they did crazy stuff like we uh. we did um like we did a Star Wars movie. and I played Han Solo and like it was. think you like most people just think oh. they had sex like well it it was shot. over several months like they they built.

a replica like Millennial Falcon like we. had like actual like replicas of like. guns and stuff and costumes and grew my. hair out and stuff. Um but you know and. then as I'm doing that it's like a. little part of me was like oh this is. this is art in a way but it's like still. you know still. porn but doubled down and had a lot of. success and got nominated for performer. of the year four. times and uh I didn't win it until 2012.

won it in 2012 and I thought, man, if I. ever won that. award, that would solidify for. me, you know, my worth. And if I just. won that award, like I had this belief. that like just something would happen. like something supernatural would just. happen like in me. Like the the feeling. of, you know, worthlessness or.

inadequacy or whatever I I wrestle with. on the pillow at night, it'll just go. away if I won that award. And then I won. it and nothing happened. And when. nothing happened, everything got worse. Let's take a quick. break. You all know what speed dating. is, right? Well, if you're the owner of. a growing business, what if there was a. feature like speed dating, but only for.

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shopify.comsrs. Shopify.com/srs. All right, Josh. Well, we're back from. the break. Kind of we hit your first. film and then we breeze through. everything else pretty much. But um I. think we left off with thousand film. thousand plus films. You won the uh what. was you won the award. Yeah. Male. performer of the year. And so I'm I mean.

it sounds like you. got I mean just a household name in the. industry. Yeah. And so you know we want. I really want to get a snapshot of what. that lifestyle is like. And so a thousand plus films in how many. years? 6 and 1/2 6 and 1/2. years. So how much are you on. camera performing? Yeah. I mean I was.

doing every day. Well, because like the. industry, so the the award show is in. January and um everyone's trying to get. stuff turned in for the year um to. submit for that so to make it because if. something wins an award then, you know, it has notoriety, you can push it etc. So kind of the industry um doesn't shut. down but slows down significantly in.

uh December and January. So like so really like 10 month. increments you're I was doing you know. 20 20 scenes a month minimum and then. during the summer sometimes you know I. was shooting two three times a day I do. I think I've done like 40 something in a. month. um was the most I did. But well, I mean, what constitutes an award? Well, I mean, you know, uh is it view counts?

What is it? So, I mean, there's used to. be on Showtime, you know, it. was voted by fans and the studios. Okay. Yeah. And then you know you had. mentioned on the first on the first. shoot there was no interaction between. you and the woman at least verbally and. so as you as you grew in that industry I. mean there had to be more human.

interaction other than sexual inter. right. and so who who are your like what's the. lifestyle who are your friends what do. you do I mean what is what is it. like yeah I mean for the most part. like you were friends with and if you. dated you dated from inside the the pool. of the people who are in that industry. um like your friend group wasn't.

exclusive to people who were just in. that industry, but dating it would be. really hard to maybe not in today's age, but. um it it was hard to kind of say what do. you you know, you're you're meeting. someone, you know, at the gym or or. wherever you might meet someone and you. get to talking about what you do for a. living and it's like, well, I'm a porn star, you know. Um that's.

probably not going to be someone you, you know, see yourself compatible with. Um maybe for a fling, but not a. relationship, you know. Um, so people would date um from w. within the industry and that um I think. was a large part of my mental and. emotional demise in that I was dating.

someone um for a while um in the. industry for almost two. years and she was already popular, became even more. popular Who was it? Uh like her Assa. Akira is uh her, you know, her name. So. she was she's like the face of Pornhub. now. Um she's a spokesperson for. Pornhub. Um she's, you know, gone viral. for multiple things like crazy things.

she said. But. um but she was, you know, she was my. person at that time. And but the Do you. guys still interact? No. No, I mean I. haven't I haven't spoke to. her, you know, since like well over 10 years. Um but the the thing was you know if if. all my friends are in that industry and. my you know girlfriend is in that.

industry you you you live in this. suppression of reality and that we would. say that we were in a monogous. relationship while having sex with other. people just calling the work in which we. did you know or calling you know us. having sex with other people at work. we. would just call. that work. It wasn't sex. It was just. work. Um, so they didn't count and we. suppressed that as reality. But what we.

claimed as reality is that we were in a. monogous relationship because off camera. and on camera were two different. realities. Mhm. But then you're faced with I'm. sitting at, you know, Mastros and. Beverly Hills with a friend of mine and. he's there with his uh his girlfriend. and my friend had had sex with my. girlfriend on Monday and I had sex with. his girlfriend that day and we're.

pretending as. if that's not real and it's not. problematic to the atmosphere. sphere. And when you suppress reality, chaos is. a promise. Is it an outward appearance. or is I mean, is it always in your head? I don't do you actually do you actually. trick your mind into Oh, yeah. I mean, I. was in a place where I mean, I could. have sex, you know, and and I would I. would do them. It's like I would have. sex in a in a theater in front of.

hundreds of thousands of people and. especially in Europe and um not think. twice about it. Wait, what? Yeah. They. would have live sex shows used to be a. thing like now you know how people. thousands of people Yeah. Or you know. how now it's become popular to take your. podcast on the road um to have that live. element. Well, instead of watching a. porn, you know, on a screen, you would.

watch it happen. live that that was a thing for a while, but um that I could do that drop of the. hat like no no problem at all, like you. know, not facing me. But you look me in. the eye and shake my hand, tears would. stream down my face because that was. real. It was. terrifying. Jeez. Like that's how much I. had suppressed reality. When's the first. time you did it live in front of a in. front of a live audience? I think it was.

in uh. probably two years in. Um but um it was. either in Vegas or. um was one of the first times and then. like stuff like that happens a lot like. in Europe or like. Barcelona. Um just a Do you remember the first time. I don't. No. Everything just became so. like there was no interaction that was.

more special than the others. The only. thing that like like um I have like real. memories around is like the roles I. played where there was like. significant, you know, there was a a. script to learn, a character to play, um. things that were outside. of, you know, the the sex aspect because. in a porn, you know, cuz like Star Wars, we we filmed, you know, over three or. four months. There's five sex scenes,

you know, um, which takes, you know, a. few hours to film. So, like there was a. lot of the movie that wasn't sex. So, I. just like that like that whole thing, that whole experience was very memorable. to me. Um but yeah, I mean the the sex it just. the sex and the people it. just so everybody had convinced. themselves that you know it was in a. monog monogous relationship inside that.

that industry. Everybody had convinced. themselves mentally that that this is on. screen doesn't matter or or this is off. screen this is or even Yeah. Or either. that or the polar opposite of like. they're all in and they're swingingers. 24/7 and like sex is just, you know, sex. and and high-fiving someone is all the. same. Let's just have a party, have fun, you know.

Um cuz some people like some people. could like work as a director and. someone be having sex with their you. know significant other and they would. just film it and it would just be. whatever. Um or wow, you know, and I just for me. like again uh single parent, you know, like my mom was young, she's a beautiful. woman. Like I remember like throwing.

cans of like corn like at a guy like um. like trying to talk to my mom like get. away from my mom. I'm going to protect. my mom. So like jealous kid turned into. a jealous boyfriend. Um which turned. into even though I was in that industry. I was I like that was my girl. I didn't. want anyone to touch her which which is. how I felt but I had to suppress that. feeling because of what I said. And I. think that would, you know, bring up an. interesting point where people say, you. know, I love what I do. Well, if you.

love what you do, let's let's, you know, go back to that moment where I said yes. to being in the porn industry. Uh, well, I'm going to make I'm going to make you. famous. Okay, Derek, you're going to. make me famous. Um, what what's what's. the first thing I do? What's next? You. know, uh, okay. Well, we got to pick you. uh an a name to go by. Sorry, I had to pick a pick you a name. to go. by. You go by.

pseudonym. Because if I can get you to. detach yourself from who you are, you. will do things that are outside of and. different than things that you would. ever do. Like you think about social. media. um you know the the the. antagonist on the other side that's you. know talking trash to everyone online. What are two things that are always. common of that person? They have an. obscure username and they have you know. a meme or a random photo as their photo.

because if I can detach who I am from. what I do then I'm not held accountable. for what I do. So it's not me doing the. things. In the porn industry very same. thing. I'm going to get you to go by a. pseudonym because I can get you to. detach yourself from your humanity. That's interesting. Um, so that was that. was the first thing I. did. So kind of, you know, with with. that, you know, that thought like in our.

mind, you know, who I. am, it began to matter less and less. So is there drugs and alcohol? Is there. a lot of that involved? I mean, uh, it's it's. interesting. It's, uh, it's really. interesting, um, because like drugs and. alcohol onset, like there was some of. that, um, before me, like there was, you.

know, um, there there was always. like times where if it was like if it. was like a live shoot kind of like. everything's kind of out the window. There's no no rules, you know. Um, but. for the most part, what do you mean a. live shoot? Like what I was live like a. live like a live show. Yeah. Where it's. like we're filming something happening. live and it's streaming or someone's. watching. So we're not creating uh you. know a curated and you know crafted and.

edited product. Um like if if we're if. we're creating that then they want a. more controlled environment. Um, so if you showed up to set Drunk or. High, you would get sent home because. more often than not, like in LA, like. you would have to get a permit to film. porn. And a lot of times, you know, they. would come by and check for your permit. And when they would check for the. permit, they're, you know, trying to get. a peak. Um,

but I I didn't see a lot of like that. onset. But is it part of the industry? 100%. But it's more so to deal with the. consequence of what you did in contrast. of being able to do what you did. You. know, that people aren't getting drunk. and high on set to do the scene. They're. getting drunk and high because they did. the scene. Interesting. And then once. addiction sets in, they you know those.

things start to bleed um into each. other. I mean there were certainly like. there were certainly like times where. people came to set drunk high um you. know all the. things. Um I mean I've seen it all. I. mean, part part of the reason that I'm. so passionate about talking about it is. as of today, over 40 people have. committed suicide or died of. overdose. Every roommate I've ever had.

except one dead. Um, and these are. people not just like totally in the. industry. Like these are people I knew. personally, like friends of mine. Um, you know, people we had meals with, like. traveled places together, like people I. knew. And when they would die, the porn. industry would make a compilation film. of, you know, their best dubs. Why? To. monetize on the thing in which caused. their demise.

Jeez. Wow. Was. there what should I be asking you? Yeah. I mean um about the industry. I mean just the just paint a picture of. how like fictitious it is. I mean like. the girls are using numbing cream. Um. the girl the all the guys are using. erectile dysfunction medication. Um you.

know there were some directors that. would require you to to use cajac. So. cavernjack is, you know, for parapolgic, you know, people where, you know, you. would inject something into the cavern. of your penis and, you know, you would. have uh an erection for, you know, 3 or. 4 hours. It doesn't matter if you're. reading the newspaper or, you know, whatever. Um, and then the danger is if. you use too much, then you've you've got. to go to the hospital to get lanced um.

because it's not going to subside, you. know. Um or uh you use it for long enough then. you become dependent on it. I mean was. sex even enjoyable? No. You know like. real like real sex with your with your. whoever you're in a monogous. relationship with. Yeah. I mean, is that. how how do I mean? Well, I mean, for the. mo like for the most part, like even if. you did that, you would like because I. worked so much, I would like not finish.

cuz I was like, you know, you you you'd. want to save your orgasm, you know, because the the quantity. Mhm. was important. Um because if that. wasn't there and they couldn't capture. what they needed, then, you know, they. would be upset. Holy [ __ ] Yeah. So when. you had sex it was. like. Yeah. Not that often. Not unless you had. a you know big break and you went on a. vacation or something like that.

Wow. It was like you know it it's almost. like you. know if if you worked at Crispy K Cream. and you love donuts like the the last. thing that you would want to do is eat. donuts, you know. Um but. yeah, and I think like just like. the. like when when so the the the agent that. I had.

when the agent that I had when when. girls would come into the industry, they'd ask them their no list, right? So. things you don't want to do, you know, anal stuff like that, like what what do. you not want to do? So that on your no. list and then you know if a director. would ask well you know does this girl. do this? No it's on the no list. But the. way that worked. was like in the industry your your no. doesn't really mean no. It means how.

much? Yeah. So the way that the the porn. agents would work is there would be. things that girls wouldn't do and um. after after a period of time they if. their popularity would start to subside, you know, they're not getting as many. requests, they would go to a few studios. and say, "Hey, how much would you pay. for such and such to do anal?" Like, you. know, 15k, 20k, 30k, 30k. Okay. Highest.

bidder. Then he would go back to the. girl. It's like, "Hey, out of. nowhere, this studio just said that they. would give you $30,000 if you would be. willing to do anal." And I know you said. you didn't want to do it, but you know, you're not getting as any request as you. had been in the past. And you know, you. do that, you know, they'll make a big. deal of it. You'll become relevant. again, and then your career is just. going to start to uh, you know, skyrocket. She does it. But what happens.

what she did what she never wanted to do. and she did one time becomes something. that she does all the time because once. she does it it lose its you know it's. whatever and they would just do that. with girls over and over and over again. at the same time they would convince. them to do escorting and it's like you. know they would spend weekends or go on. trips you know with guys and it's like. well you know there's a check and. there's a test as long as there's a. check and a test it's all the same is.

the way would present it to. them. We're making the we're making the. client get, you know, the same STD and. AIDS panel, so they're clean and you're. getting. paid. So, they just convince them that, you know, so that they were at, you. know, they were trafficking them because. it was it wasn't on like a public site. It was, you know, it wasn't quite on the. dark web, but it wasn't far from. it. Or not. You know, this that guy.

Derek, like he ended up, you know, serving time for sex trafficking because. he was ex he was extorting girls. He. would bring girls in from different. countries, get them fake IDs, have them. paid in cash, living in his own house, um charging them rent to pay in their. house, taking some of their money that. they were getting paid as their agent. and, you know, their landlord. um and. making the the the the the people who. paid them pay them in cash so he would. take the money and he decided how much. they. got. [ __ ] I'm going to go to some I'm.

going to go somewhere pretty dark. Um. um. so I I. uh so with with guys, you know, um they. would ask, "Do you want to do like VIP. parties? Do you want to like bartend or. whatever?" like you would bartend. shirtless and you would make you know 10.

20,000 bucks and um I would do stuff. like that sometimes and it was almost. like you know you it's kind of like what. we're talking about like how do you how. do you ever get to you know this place. like how do you go from here to here. like how do you go from you know me. personally the first magazine that I. ever saw that like created a sexual. thought in my head it was um like it was. uh I think it was like M know, like GQ. like um or.

the I don't know, like swimsuit version. of like Maxim or something like that, but it just like a see-through bathing. suit. Like, how did I go from there to. like watching hardcore porn, you know? So doing porn, getting paid for. sex, then doing these barking bartending. stuff and then um there was uh a. highprofile company. um in the fashion industry. They would.

have these parties and they would bring. out guys and girls to do these parties. and you know the girls would walk around. naked, guys will work walk around you. know in boxers whatever serve everyone. drinks and uh I went there um it was in. Paris and um I mean long story short I I. went there and. um got drugged and raped.

um by the owner of a very well-known. fashion uh what used to be the CEO of a. very well-known fashion. organization. And. uh when that happened to me, I. thought it's my. fault. This is what I signed up for. You. know, this is this is who I am. And. um then I started like trying to.

sabotage I was like towards the end of. my career so it's like started trying to. sabotage myself and. um started making a pretty clear plan to. take my life and it kind of looked up. like I had this pretty strong pain. medication and like how many pills would. do the trick. Okay. Well, take that. number, maybe add two more. And I'd put.

them on the counter and I'd separate. them. It's like I took, you know, old. school vitamins. I used to take like the. like Vitapac, like a animal pack or. whatever. I take like 40 vitamins at. once. So, I'm like, I knew like I take a. lot of pills at once. So, I separated. them so I could make sure I'd get them. down, swallow them, I wouldn't chicken. out. And I set them up like that time. after time after time. I just could. never do it. And then um this one day I.

was filming in. Atlanta and it was like it was just like. a it was this disgusting shoot. like people were like urinating on each. other. Um. like spitting on on my face in my mouth, stuff like that. I'm just. like what have I become? I was like, I want to.

die. Can't undo what I've. done. Got, you know, more money than I. thought I would ever see. You know, growing. up, food stamps, trailer, government. housing, like got a nice, you know, Brightling. collection and nice home. do all the stuff. Um, but I'm. miserable and this is what I've made in.

my. life. There's no hope. If there's no. hope, there's no way. out. But I needed someone to agree with. me. So, I got paid from that scene. And. um the directors on the memo of the. checks, they would always write. something grotesque. Like if the title. of the movie wasn't sexually explicit. enough, they would write something.

um being. antagonistic, knowing that you're going. to have to give that check to. someone. And I I normally wouldn't do. that. I would. just ATM, dropbox, you know, anything. other than hand it to a person. But on. this day, that was going to be my. formula. I put the water on the counter. I lined up the pills. Um, the Wacovia. that I banked at was across the street.

from the place that I lived. And I. walked over there, had the check, waited. in line, handed the check to the. teller, and I. waited. What did it say on the check? It's like some kind gang bang or like. something like that. And. um I I wanted that person. to, you.

know, some look of disgust. best case. scenario that say like, you know, how. sick are you or. something? She said nothing. You know, deposited the check, handed me the. receipt, you know, I got tears streaming. down my face and pale like, you know, shaking and I defeated cuz I didn't get. what I wanted. I didn't know what to do. And then I look up and she had walked. around the counter and she put her hand.

on my shoulder and she said, "Joshua, are you. okay? Joshua, can I get you some. help?" And Sean, that was the first time. I had heard my real. name in 18. months. Wow. And it just. like it just like woke me. up and I belined it to my place and I.

called my mom and I hadn't, you know, my. mom had been calling and texting. me. Didn't. respond. I thought, you know, I she's. just reaching out to me because she. feels like she has to, but I've lost the. right of being her son. I've. disqualified. myself. I think it was my pride, my. shame. Um, but I called her and when she. answered the phone, she lit me up. She,

you know, good southern mama, she cussed. me out, you know, for she was worried. about me. Um, but then she said. everything that I didn't think she. would. He said, "I'd all I will always. love you and you will always be my son, and you're so much better than the way. you're living. Please come. home." So, right then and. there, I called everybody I needed to. call. I quit. I quit. I quit. And I.

subleased my place pretty quickly. and left. LA. And but like when I when I. left, I didn't think I could change and. I didn't have any kind of it wasn't any. kind of spiritual awakening. Um but I do. think that was the Holy Spirit in that. bank. Um but very quickly I thought, okay, you know what? What do I have? What do I have that I can use? Okay, well, you know, I'd been doing CrossFit.

for a while. I got a level one. certification. Maybe I can coach. CrossFit. I got a exercise science background a. little bit. Um, strength conditioning, you know, understand that maybe I can. get into that. And then I did, you know, the formula that I knew that worked. Find a good. mentor, get, you know, double down, work. really hard, get some credentials, you. know, build build a kingdom for myself. And, you know, I was working with this.

guy, Jason Davidson. He was the strength. and conditioning coach for the Carolina. Hurricanes. He was leading the Thor. program at Fort Bragg, plugged me into. some right circles, vouched for me, and. u all of a sudden, you know, I had, you. know, what I like to say is I I put. enough good dirt on my bad dirt so I. didn't look. dirty cuz I couldn't change. I didn't. believe I could. But what I thought I. could do is I I could manage. people's, you know, perception of me.

And if I did enough good, it would. outweigh the bad that was impossible for. me to run. from. And I spent about two years doing. that. I mean, when you were before you. left the industry, I. mean, was it a buildup of misery or was. it literally that one scene or that one. shoot or was that one shoot the last. straw? that that one shoot that that. last shoot was the last straw, but it.

was, you know, the relationship. So, that relationship got more toxic. It. went from us being at dinner where we. had sex with the other person across. the, you know, table to her wanting to. talk. about stuff that was happening on set, like, you know, in our home. And I was, it was interesting because I.

was like, man, I need to man up. This. shouldn't bother me, but it does. And I. I think, you know, we look at men in. today's society, it's like, you know, we're struggling with a mental health. crisis because we pretend like we're. okay when we're not. And the inevitable. fact of pretending like you're okay when. you're not, the thing that's not okay is. not going to get better. It's going to. get worse. So, I allowed that to be part.

of our relationship or her to tell me. stuff that she was doing with other. people and pretending like that was. arousing to. me. And I. think again just like further and. further compromising like myself as an. individual. Mhm. And suppressing reality. led. to combustion, you know,

internally. Yeah. You're trying to. convince yourself to change what you. know is right and wrong. Yeah. I mean, again, like the the jealous kid, you. know, in the grocery store is still the. jealous kid that I I don't want anyone. to look at my. girlfriend. Now, I'm saying that I'm.

okay with people having sex with her. Um, but. yeah, so I mean that that. progression and just the reality of like. me having sex with as many people as I. did and it just. becoming the most arbitrary thing in the. world is incredibly dangerous for your. mental and emotional health. for me to.

walk. into, you know, a a light, you know, this studio and a girl to be sitting. there and for me not to talk to her or. anything and I just walk up to her and. start having sex with her and then. there's a bunch of cameras around and. I'm doing it for these cameras and then. I orgasm and then leave and that's my. job. That's what I do for my career. That's what I do, you know, four or five. days a week and I do that for, you know,

short of a decade. Like. that's I mean that's going to damage you. significantly. Mhm. Was there any talk within the industry. on your way out about or just anytime at. all in there about that other people. were struggling with or Oh yeah. I mean. there was there was Yeah. I mean suicide. is rampant in the suicide and over like. people are dying of overdose probably.

five I think um last time I looked. around 500 people have died of overdose. suicide and murder over the last 20 25. years and murder because if you believe. little of your you know if you believe. little of yourself you're going to end. up in a relationship where that person. thinks little of you and there's abuse. and that abuse turns into, you know, you. losing your life and like the amount of. that happening it's documented is pretty.

astronomical. Um, and then just I mean, you know, we were talking about, not to. change the topic, but um, we were. talking about guardian angels. It's. like, man, um there was HIV outbreaks. like in the industry, you know, there. like there were people I had unprotected. sex with that had HIV that they. died. There were there was an HIV. outbreak that was big enough during the. industry that it shut down for, you.

know, not not a long time, but around. two months. Um, yeah. I mean, were there ever any open discussions. about it? I mean, did you have any any. friends in the industry where you would. have these like talks with about leaving. or about things that were affecting you. or anything like that? Um, or was everybody wearing a mask? Yeah. I mean, I call it a first date. mask, you know. um where you don't know.

who you are, but you pretend to be. whoever you think the person across from. you wants you to be so that you can, you. know, appease them. um or so that they would like you cuz. you don't really know who you are or you. believe who you are doesn't have any. value. Um, but I'll say there's this. like there's this generally across the. board there was this belief that you. know doing something outside of the. industry the longer that you stayed in. the industry.

was impossible. So the the only like the best possible. outcome is that you have a good. long-standing career in the industry and. then one of the studios that you worked. for a lot you get hired on as a director. and then you work as a director. you. know, that that was the the next hopeful. progression because not being in the.

porn. industry wasn't an option because being. in the porn industry meant you couldn't. do anything. else. At least that's what they wanted. you to believe. I mean, um, for example, Kagny Lin Carter, um, she was a a great. friend of mine. Um, she got in a little. bit after me, stayed in much longer than. me, um, much later than than.

me. And, um, I think it was last year. she had left the. industry, opened a dance studio. Um, she. was like a a ballet dancer like in her. teens, something she still was. passionate about, and she opened up a. place, but everyone around her was like, "You can do whatever you want. You can. say that your name is.

whatever, but I know who you are. you'll you'll never. escape from from that. You'll always be. that. person. And she tried really hard and. and it's so sad, bro, because. um she she took her life. And the day. that she took her life, she posted a. photo of herself on the beach.

saying, "I'm. free." But what. But what's true is she was in. prison. Like. you like I wanted to leave the industry. I wanted to do something else. But you. begin to believe that you can't. And. it's not something you do.

It's who you are. And if the only thing in which you can. do is to sell yourself for sex, then. your no loses its. foolition, you know, it it it loses its. validity. Your no loses its validity. because if the only thing that you can. say yes to is selling yourself for sex, then you can't say no to anything. So. you say yes to.

everything. And it's just so sad, man. Yeah. I mean, just to think it, you. know, I I was sharing with someone, you. know, there's, you know, 40 40 of my. friends suicide. overdose. Those porns are still there. You know, it's like, man, it if I could.

encourage someone that's watching that. now, it's like, man, you know that there's this like. there's all these things that are true. while you don't know if there was force. fraud or coercion, you know, regarding the scene that you're. watching. You don't know how old that. person is. Like, you don't know if they. gave consent. And you and then in in. this situation, what I'm saying is you. don't know if the thing in which they.

did caused them so much pain and hurt. that it led to their death and you're. partaking in the thing in which caused. their demise and you're and you're. extracting pleasure from. it. And that person is dead because of. what they did and it's and they're. they're still making money off of. it. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, past, you know, you know, uh, you know, right right before November.

4th, last big push from the Harris Walls. campaigned, they ran ads on Pornhub in. seven different states. Why? 120 million viewers a day. And they. they ran a an ad saying it it was it was. someone that, you know, a character that. somewhat resembled Trump walking in and. and this it was so gross. It was so. gross. There was this guy masturbating. underneath a blanket and he was looking.

at his phone and someone that looks like. Trump comes in and takes the phone away. and says, "If you don't want to lose. your right to watch porn, you better. vote in the same way that you want, you. know, to consume that." Are you [ __ ]. me? No. Seven states ran those ads. What states? I'm not sure. Jeez. I mean, I I would assume Barry.

left states, but we're about to get to a. point in the story that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, man. They really trap you. Oh, yeah. Had you known anybody that had made it. out? I know one. girl. I don't know one guy. Um, well, I. know guys that have made it out. I don't. know guys who are whole and healthy. For.

example, uh, a good friend of mine, his. name's Greg. Um, his porn name is Randy. Spears. Um, he he even had, you know, a. character on Family Guy. And, um, he, uh, he lives in San Antonio and, um, he still goes by Randy. Spears. you know, he's got a normal. job, you know, he's not in the porn. industry. anymore. Um, he's about, you know, 10.

years older than me. Um, but, you know, I talked to him and. it's like, you know, he called me Rocco. like when he called I called him and. left him a voice memo or a voice message. cuz he didn't answer. And um when he. called me back, he called me Rocco and. he said that you know he was Randy and. he sent me his social text me a social. media and Randy Spears. Um and and I. think it's this belief that who I am can.

never. supersede that persona. So, I'm I'm going to cling on to that. because my worth is so much less than. this. Um, so yeah, I know one one person named. Britney, she lives in uh Santa Barbara. with her husband Richard. Um, they're. actually both in ministry. They do uh.

they actually help girls that um are in. trafficking or like prostitution. and. they kind of help them get back on their. feet. Uh but yeah, like she's the only. person that I know. Are any of them reaching out to you? Anybody like like how do we get out of. this? Tons every. day. And it's like and and you know some. people very frustrated with me because I.

I mean there's still people who are in. the industry that are very successful. that either I you know I mentored or. were good friends to me cuz you know a. lot of the guys who were younger um when. I was in the industry you know they were. like you know how do I do this? How do I. do this right? How do I make a career. out of this? you know, how do I, you. know, because the thing that I was best. at was well, I understood, well, if you. get relational equity with a director, then he's going to hire you often and.

he's going to recommend you, you know, to other people. I understood. networking. understood relationships and. it's like I wasn't I was a good actor. you know but I I cared about people and. I remembered people's names and you know. um so like simple stuff was the things. that allowed me to be very successful in. that industry and I was just you know. teaching them simple things that worked. well for them um but I've had. conversations as of recently you know as. of as as recent as a month ago of people. who are very very successful in the.

industry today that have been in the. industry you know now, you know, approaching 15, 20. years saying, "Man, I thought we were. friends." And I was like, "What do you. mean by that?" He's like, "You say all. this stuff about the industry." I'm. like, "Yeah, man. I detest the industry. with every fiber of my being, and I. think it's vile and evil, but I love you.

I don't I don't have to agree with what. you're. doing. I I mean I understand you found. you you find identity in that. Um so I. understand why that feels offensive to. you but I I don't have any animosity. towards you. I wish you would do. something different with your life. because the reality is bro if you are uh.

girls also if you're in the top three to. 5% of any industry you have the capacity. of being excellent at another trade and. being more. successful like you have charisma and. gifts and talents that you are. misappropriating but if you surrender. and you submit to your per to your life. to the person in Jesus Christ and allow. him to take the things that he put in. you and point them in the right. direction. Guess what? You're going to. 10x your success. And it's going to be.

something that you're doing that is. fulfilling because it's going to be the. thing that you're made to. do. So yeah, I I I don't hate you. I. hate the choices that you're making, but. I don't I don't hate you. And they they. just don't get it. So there there there. there has there has been a lot of. like situations that I I wish that I. could have had the conversation in. person.

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I know everybody out there has to. be just as frustrated as I am when it. comes to the BS and the rhetoric that. the mainstream media continuously tries. to force feed us. And I also know how. frustrating it can be to try to find. some type of a reliable news source. It's getting really hard to find the. truth and what's going on in the country. and in the world. And so one thing we've. done here at Shawn Ryan Show is we are. developing our. newsletter. And the first contributor to.

the newsletter that we have is a woman, former CIA targeter. Some of you may. know her as Sarah Adams, call sign. superb bad. She's made two different. appearances here on the Shawn Ryan show. and some of the stuff that she has. uncovered. and broke on this show is just. absolutely. mind-blowing. And so I've asked her if. she would contribute to the newsletter. and give us a weekly intelligence brief.

So it's going to be all things. terrorists, how terrorists are coming up. through the southern border, how they're. entering the country, how they're. traveling, what these different. terrorist organizations throughout the. world are up to. And here's the best. part. The newsletter is actually free. We're not going to spam you. It's about. one newsletter a week, maybe two if we. release two shows. The only other thing. that's going to be in there besides the. intel brief is if we have a new product. or something like that. But like I said, it's a free CIA.

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coming up to you that recognize you? So, day one, I'm I'm living now in Raleigh, North Carolina, and first thing I do, I'm like, you know what? I've got a. Celtic cross tattoo on my shoulder that, for some reason, in my mind, like I'm. not walking around with my shirt off, but I'm like, I know that is on a. hundred, you know, covers of porn, you. know? I'm going to get that covered up. So, I. get it covered up. I got like.

a I got a fish like coming out of water. like you know freaking cool, you know. Um but I got that covered up and shaved. my head, deleted my social media and. it's. like. rocked gone, dead, new. life. Walk into a Whole Foods. Like. literally, I haven't even moved into my. place yet. And uh guy in the meat.

section is. like. rocked. I was. like, are you kidding. me? And then it just continued to happen. over and over. again. Um and then I was just kind of. like I was kind of found, you know, I. was I was found I was found out. Um, but. I just kind of, you know, deflect from. it and I was just trying to build like.

I'm a trainer. I'm a trainer. I'm a. trainer. I'm a good trainer. I'm a good. trainer. I got a lot of personal. training clients, you know, making. money. I'm doing good. I'm helping. people. I'm doing good. And uh, two. years of. that and uh, two years in, this girl. comes into the gym. She's wearing like all Iowa Hawkeye. cheerleading stuff. So, she had. obviously, you know, was a an alum, was. very proud that she had cheered at Iowa.

Gorgeous, best athlete in the gym. But. she was different in that she worked. really hard. She would kick everybody's. butt in the workout. She was a gymnast, so she could, you know, all this like. old school Crossbow, like if if you. could walk on your hands and like do. stuff like that, like if you were good. at that, like you already had, you know, an edge over everybody else. Um, but she. was just better than everybody. And I. was just fascinated about, you know, with her and she was gorgeous. So I. asked her on a date and she was like,

"I'm good." I was. like in love, you know, rejection, you. know. Uh, so I asked her out a bunch of times. and she was finally like, "Well, I go. I'll go uh for a long run before church. on Sunday mornings. If you want to meet. me at this park, we can go for a run.". And I was like, "All right, you know, I'll take whatever I can get." And I get. there and I'm there early and I'm.

waiting and I started thinking. I'm. like, man, you know, Christmas party and like. a few other parties we have. like she didn't really hang out that. much. She's always at the gym, but after. the. workout, if she's not like doing extra. work or whatever, um, like she's not. hanging out mingling, like she's not. like Mhm. She's not looking for friends. Yeah. And so, aka she doesn't know my.

story. And I'm like, she doesn't. No. And I'm like, man, if she knew who I. was, she would not, you know, agree to. this. and and there was just like some. conviction that I had. I'm like, man, I. need to I need to be forthcoming with. this. Not something I'd done, you know, in the past. And when she got there, like the the run never made its way to a. run or, you know, it was a maybe a brisk. walk. And uh I was like,

"Hey, I just want to I want to share. something with you. It's going to, you. know, be a little heavy." She was like, "Okay, what you know, what's up?" And I. was like, you know, kind of like laid. out my guts, you know, I was like, man, I'm this kid that his daddy didn't want. and I'm and I did all this porn and it's. still all over the the internet and like. every bad thing I've ever done that. creates shame in my life, you know, it's. on the internet forever and this is who. I am. And she was just. like, "Holy crap." You know, like super.

taken back. And she didn't say anything. We just continued to walk. You know, she. didn't say a word. And I didn't know if. she was mad or she was going to slap me. or, you know, I don't know. I was going. to am I going to get fired? You know, I. I was just thinking like all. these then she stopped and she looked at. me like, you know, she's a elementary. teacher. It was like there's the, you. know, a look that like a mom or a. teacher has and she just looked at me. with this.

like she's like, "Hey, um, I don't want. to. minimize the pain that you've. experienced in your life, and I don't. want to negate the the real problems. that your decisions have made for. you. But I want you to. know that you're not defined by the. worst thing you've ever. done. And you won't be defined by the. greatest thing you ever do.

Because there's one author of. you and it's not. you. It's God. Do you know who that is? do you know God? And I was. like, maybe I went to church a little. bit when I was a kid because my my. grandmother, my grandfather, they went. to church. They had a faith.

Um I was like, I know of God. I. certainly don't know God. And she was. like, "Well, I've been following Jesus. since I was in the seventh grade, and. I'm not perfect by any means, but my foundation that I live. from is from my relationship with him. Like, the way I live my life is. contingent on my relationship with.

him." So, what kind of food do you like? I was like, "What? Are you like an alien. or something? Like what? Like what are. you talking about? Like you don't want. me to. leave? Like she's asking me about smart. goals. I'm like, dude, I don't know what. an acronym is. Like what are you talking. about? Like I I like I had the worst of. intentions with you. Like.

I my plan A, B, and C is to hook up with. you, you know? I I don't I have no idea, you know. Um and then we just walked and talked. and she asked me questions that I didn't. think of for a long time, you know, like. what what do I want to like in in the. gym industry? Like would you ever want. to own a gym? Um you know, what's your relationship. like with your. family? Like do you like would you ever.

want to have kids? you just asking me. things and like. I like honestly like I feel. like it had been so long of like me. thinking like that. I was like reaching. for humanity I didn't know if I still. had that went on for you know we we. walked and talked for like probably 2. hours and then you know she you know we. we went separate ways and you know text.

like high school idiots for a week and. then on Saturday she was like hey um I. would love for you to come with me to. church and I was like, "Wherever you're. going, yes." You know, I I'll be there. Wherever the pretty girl's going, yes. And um she had like she had been. catalytic for like some curiosity. I'm. like, "What in.

you allowed you to respond to me like. that?". you know, like um there's this really great book I. I love uh master plan of evangelism. Uh. Roberty Coleman wrote it and he talks. about how um it's good to tell people, you know, something, but it's better to. show them. Like people are often not. looking for an explanation. They're. looking for a demonstration.

And I think, you know, Colossians 4, like Paul's talking about, hey, um, you. know, I'm in prison for preaching the. gospel, but I'm praying for. opportunities to preach the gospel, and. I'm praying to do it with clarity, and. I'm praying to do it with tact. You. know, I want to be wise towards um, outsiders. And most importantly, man, allow my speech to be gracious and. seasoned with salt so I might know how I. ought to answer each person. Because how. I.

respond. matters, how I respond to the individual. in front of me, not a blanket statement, the person in front of me. How I am. aware, how I'm an. intentional, how react is. important. And the way that she reacted. to me. like. it it was like, wow, dude. And um she. invited me to church and um we went.

there and I thought, you know, am I. going to like set, you know, into am I going to catch on fire when I. walk in, you know, like um I certainly. have no business here is what I was. thinking. And then, you know, my my only. like I think a lot of people can relate. to that. Yeah. I mean, I thought, you. know, I thought the same thing when I. walked in. Yeah, totally different. reasons. Maybe not so different.

But I get it. Yeah. I mean, I thought, you know, if you had, you know, tattoos. on your arm and wrinkles on your shirt, like, you're going to hell, you know? That's what that's what I thought. And. then I saw a a man with tattoos and, you. know, a t-shirt and jeans like get up on. stage um. preaching. and he's told he told the. story of uh 2 Samuel chapter 9 and um.

just to provide a little bit of context. So um 2 Samuel chapter 9 it's King. David. David had just rebuilt the temp. the temple and now he's you know kind of. at the pinnacle of his reign as king and. he's just rebuilt the temple and he had. done something for God and then he was. asking himself. introspectively Lord what can I do for. your people to show your loving kindness.

to me how can I reciprocate the love. that I've experienced from you like to. your people and then he's like, "Oh, yeah. Um, I made this promise to my. friend Jonathan." So, Jonathan was the. son of Saul. Saul, his kingdom was. stripped from him when he sinned. And. then David was chosen and anointed to be. king. And then there was this conflict. between Saul and David. And Saul had a. son, Jonathan. And Jonathan and David.

were great friends. And Jonathan even. was like, "Hey, um I know my dad's like. trying to like throw spears at you and. like trying to kill you and like he's, you know, kind of lost it. If he's. plotting on you, I'm going to have your. back. I'm going to let you know." And. then David said, "Hey, I'm going to make. this covenantal promise with you that. I'm going to show you love and affection. not only to you forever, but to your. family as well." Now, fast forward, he's. remembering this and he's saying, "Man, um, how can I show this.

to, you know, God's people, and he's, "Oh, I wonder if there's anyone left out. of the house of Saul, and he finds a. guard, um, Zeba is the guard's name, and. he served under Saul." And he's like, "Hey, is there anyone left?" And he's. like, "Yeah, Mphibicheth." Mphabasheth. was a son of Jonathan but he's in this. place called Loabar. It means place of. no pasture. He's in hiding because um he. was you know when when he was around. like five or six years old when his u.

his dad and his grandfather when. Jonathan and Saul were killed in battle. you know there was this hierarchy where. he was next in line to be king but David. was chosen anointed to be king. So if. David had his right place on the throne. historically if there was an opposing. person they could potentially cause an. upheaval. They were identified and. eradicated. You know that that was the. plan. So he was in hiding because he.

thought his head was on the chopping. block. David goes finds him brings him. in front of him and Melbth is like you. know doomsday. Today's the day I'm going. to die. I've been found. And um David. says, "Actually, I'm going to give to. you. I'm going to restore back to you. your grandfather's land, which is part. of Canaan, so the promised land. I'm. going to give you access back to your. land. And I'm going to invite you into.

my kingdom. And I want you to have a. seat in my table, not for a day, not for. a week, but forever. You are now part of. this family." And uh I was like, "Wow, this is amazing." It's a it's a. beautiful picture of grace. But 2 Samuel. chapter. 9:8th, how does he respond to this? Does. he's like, "Wow, you know, God is so. good. Wow, this is amazing.". No, he refers to himself as a dead dog. Says, "What what would you want to do.

with a dead dog like me?" I was like, "Yeah, that's it." Because before he was. talking about, man, you know, Romans. 3:23 says that we've all sinned and fall. short of the glory of God. So, everybody's guilty. Romans 6:23, you. know, the wages of sin is death. So, if. we're all guilty and that guilt equates. to death, eternal separation from God, if that's true for everyone, then okay, I'm on the same playing field. But then. you're talking about, you know, that. this grace of.

God, you know, I'm like, okay, you know, Romans 10:9, whoever confesses with. their mouth that Jesus is Lord and. believe that he was raised on the third. day will be saved. I'm like, this is. amazing. But then I still find. myself, don't you know who I am? Don't. you know what I've done? Don't you know. who my daddy is? Don't you know even he. didn't want me? And then he read Hebrews.

12:2. It talks about how. Jesus went to the cross with joy in his. heart set before him, scorning our shame. before he sat down at the right hand of. God. And I'm. like, joy. You You're talking about. that. Okay. Jesus. was fully God, fully man. So fully. perfect. He's omnisient. He's all. knowing. So an all powerful, all knowing.

God. Went to the cross. Okay. He was. obedient to his father. So that makes. sense. But why would he have. joy in his. heart? And then it hit me. Because he loves. me. Because he loves.

me. God loves. me. And I just kept saying it to myself. over and over and over. again. And I fell to my knees and I. started to cry. I'm not sure what happened that day, but. um when I stood up, you know, I I gave.

my life to Jesus the best I knew how. And. um what I felt when I stood up was the. ruck was off my. back. And I understood the the father. that I always. wanted, he gave me. pictures of shielding me and protecting. me and walking with me and fighting for. me and believing the best about.

me. It's why Romans 5'8 is so powerful. like while knowing the worst thing. you've ever. done, Jesus went to the cross and died. for you. Like he would like you, it. talks about how, you know, you you. wouldn't do that, you know, for a bad. person. Maybe for a righteous person, but but not someone that had done the. things, you know, that we did that put.

him on the cross. Like, no. way. Yeah. while knowing the worst thing. you've ever done. The thing that you. would not want to say out loud, he knows. that and he chooses you. Why? Because he. loves. you. And that love, it it changed me. that day. It didn't fix all my problems. I was still, you know, very much a. knucklehead. Um, but man, if there was something that.

I was sure of was that God loved. me and I wanted to be different. And the. thing that I didn't think was. possible just came true is that I had a. father who adored. me. And um that girl um her name is. Hope, which is pretty cool. And you.

know, I'm not the smartest person in the. world, but married her. And um you we've. been married for nine years. And uh got. four boys and I've just seen so much. beauty come from the ashes of my life. And you know from you know that moment. of being discipled and going to Liberty. and getting a theological ed education. to preaching at Liberty at convocation.

last month and and doing you know having. conversations with incredible people. like yourself. Um like I didn't have the. guts. How did you immediately start. implementing this stuff into your life. after that after. that hour at church? Yeah. I mean, for. for me, it's like, you know, uh, so. thinking about like like fighting, like. I I wasn't the best fighter, but I was a.

good counter puncher, you know. Um, basketball, like I I I was I was quick, but I wasn't fast. So, I was a shooter, so I had to I could I could create. separation so I could get my shot off. um all these things were tech techniqued. but I understood that it would yield. results. So I I believed man if I take. inventory of the things in my life that. don't line up with where I want to go. and I implement a regiment of things.

that will set me on the trajectory for. me to go then it'll work. Okay. So where. do where do I. start? Need a mentor. So first thing I. did it was it was so crazy. I I go to. this church. It was a pretty big church. in Raleigh. And I was like, "There's a. pastor I can talk to." Like, "Sure." You. know, executive pastor was, you know, around the corner. Just happened to be. in there. His name's uh Gary Vet. Um and. I I walked in there and I was like, "Can.

I tell you a story?" Cuz I feel like God. wants me to build a boat. Um, but I shared with him my story and I. was like, "Man, I I feel like I need to. build a foundation because I think. there's people that God's going to use. my story to rescue to point to himself.". And that's the boat that I feel like I. need to build. What am I supposed to do? He's. like, "Wow." You know? Um, and then he.

uh grabs this guy, Andrew. And Andrew uh. just graduated from DTS Dallas. Theological Seminary, moved to Raleigh. to help open another campus. And. disciplehip was something that he was. passionate about and gifted in but like. very gifted. teacher. And you know if if I you know. it's funny I used to tell the story it. was like man he was a new guy on staff. and he had all this free time. You know. knowing what I know now in ministry the.

new guy on staff does not have free. time. you know, you're doing all the. stuff. Uh, but he's like, I I didn't. have time. And honestly, you know, my. plan was to give you a. Bible, tell you, you know, what to read. and tell you to get plugged into a small. group. And uh he was like, "Man, just. the Holy Spirit just fell on me and. convicted me like when you walked in my. office." And I was like, man, I've got.

to pour out every bit of me into him. And I don't know why. And you know, he. he didn't know what he was getting. himself into. He's like, "Man, I just. want you, you know, to open up my office. to you. You know, I want to spend as. much time discipling you as as you want. to spend." So, I was like, "Okay." You. know, I have a little little bit of a. crazy work ethic where I was like, "All. right." So, I was like doing everything. I could to like I was like giving away.

personal training clients and I was. showing up at his office and I was. spending 10 to 15 hours a week with. Andrew and you know we started in the. book of John where the book of John you. know anyone asked me what's the first. book of the Bible I need to read the. book of John book of John is an. eyewitness account of the life of Jesus. you know g John walked with Jesus and. John wants you to know hey this is who. Jesus is this is what Jesus did and this.

is how it matters to all that believe. and you know and it's like John. specifically is written to not. specifically like a Greek audience not. specifically a Jewish audience it's an. overarching audience so it uses language. that's not confusing it's very clear um. so we we dug into that and it like I. wasn't like a scholarly dude but like I. could read and like regurgitate stuff,

but it wouldn't always like. conceptualize. There was I mean it's. it's true that the you know the Bible. says that the Bible is you know the word. of God is alive and active, sharper than. you know two any two-edged sword divides. bone and marrow where if if you are. allowing the Holy Spirit to to lead you. I think it's important that we pray. before we read our Bible. Man, I was. reading this text and it was like it. wasn't just words on a page. It was like.

it was coming into my heart and undoing. things. And it was like I was like. receiving, you know, it's it's, you. know, it's I think it's appropriate that. we talk about you Jesus is the bread of. life. You know, it's the the water. that'll never leave you thirsty because. once you experience like true. sustenance, like if you've ever been. starving and then you find sustenance, like you're satisfied in a way that is.

almost like you can't fully. articulate. It was that. And I. experienced a. peace that came with that that I became. very hungry for and I couldn't get. enough. And for me, you know, it used to. be, man, if you come to my house, you. know, or my grandma's house, her. buttermilk biscuits are ridiculous. And. you know, she's such a great grandma. that, you know, I I get out of school,

you know, at. 3:37. She's taking them out of the oven. at 3:40. you know, they're hitting, you. know, a plate and you can bite them. They're still crispy on the top and. they're, you know, soft in the middle. If she times it perfect, you got to try. this. That the gospel became that for. me. Was like, man, uh, this really. works. This really is changing my life. and it's beautiful and interesting and. captivating and um, it's the best story. ever told in that story. It's about a.

God that is personal and wants to get to. know you. And man, I can't wait to tell. you about him. And that just. became all I ever wanted to do. And. that's, you know, if I'm honest, like I. I get to do some really cool stuff, but. at the end of the day, like that's the. thing that fires me up. most. So, it started there. Um, but I. think like if you're to teach anyone. anything, you know, talking about. Victor, you know, like uh Victor's gonna.

show uh show me how to do something with. a knife and then he was going to give me. the knife and then I need to show him. what he showed me. Um because because if. I can't replicate what you just taught. me, I didn't catch it, you know? Um and. you have to apply it to truly learn it. And I think when when we reciprocate our. our faith in that we we share things. that God has, you know, implanted on us. to others, there's something that's. solidified. You think there's when, you.

know, there's something beautiful that. happens when there's a a physical and. practical response to something that's. prompted in us spiritually and that's. just has been natural for me. How long did it take you to learn. forgiveness? a lot a lot longer. A lot longer. Um I think the the. first the the first step of that was um.

when our first son was born. Um I. remember. like I remember I like my wife is like a. germaphobe and she's always like you. know have you wash your hands? Have you. wash your hands? like our kids like any. like we will like be somewhere and wash. our hands and get in our car and if we. pick up like takeout, you know, we're. going to eat it on the way home and. they're in the back like watching a. movie or whatever, they know like you. got to get the hand sanitizer also, you.

know, but so when our son's born, you. know, I'm like she's already instilled. the fear in me by that point. my are my. hands clean enough, you know, to touch. our our son, you know, um because he the. nurses had him and you know, he's all. like slimy and cone headed and got the. little bonnet like hanging off his head. and um I'm freaked out cuz like so she. was in the middle of a CrossFit workout. when her water broke and like she like. we went home. We like we had just bought.

our first house. Um been married for. about two years and. um just like she was like I'm going to. just do my makeup and then we'll go to. the hospital. Like your water broke, you. know. I'm like freaking out. I thought I. needed to have like you know but we get. there and her her water broke but she. wasn't dilated enough. And then almost. 24 hours later he's born. So I'm like a. crackhead by that point. And um he's. born and I'm like emotional and hungry.

and tired and all the things. And um the. nurse has him and he's looking, you. know, all alienike. And uh she's like, "Do you want to touch him? You want to. see him?" And I walk over. I'm like, you. know, and as I'm reaching in his. direction, his little hand reaches up. and grabs my finger. And I started. weeping and like not audibly but you.

know in my spirit I heard God say I love. you more than. that. And I was like man I I don't deserve. that. I don't deserve to be a dad. Um I don't know how to be a dad. I'm. scared. Um, I don't know how to do it right. I've never seen it.

done. I'm a, you know, I'm going screw. up, you know. I I I started just. thinking all these. things. I was thinking, man, I was I was. 30, you know, um. 33 at that time. And I was like, man, my. dad was. 16. And I think like that. moment it it was the beginning of me. feeling some. empathy for.

him. And. um some time passed and. um God started opening up some cool. opportunities. Um, I was on staff at. Life Church for a while as an associate. pastor and then took a teaching position. in Iowa. Um, and then kind of thing. after thing started happening. you know, I did Tucker and Candace Owens and, you.

know, a few other things and started. getting a lot of momentum, a lot of. opportunities and God was just moving. and. um kind of in the middle of that. I was. in Dallas actually before we lived there. and I was staying at the Omni and um I'd. woken like I'd woken up at around like 2. am and it's often not super often but. often that God will like wake me up and. I feel prompted to pray in the middle of.

the night and. um I was lazy. So I was just like I'm. just going to lay here like okay Lord. you. know and. I began to think. like, man, what am I doing? And I just. felt like super. distracted. And then I started to think, it's almost like the Holy Spirit kind of. brought to the forefront of my mind. like, do you fear.

me? Like, do you revere me? Like the. fear of the Lord, rightly understood, is. is reverence, not you know, human fear. like do you revere me as. Lord? Get on my face and um begin to. pray. And then I started to see almost. like if you would like go through a flip. book my. dad.

I. the way that I would look out that glass. like looking for my. dad is my dad as a kid looking for. me. and. um how it just got harder over. time. And while I was feeling empathy, I was.

also feeling this like bubble of rage at. the same time, you know, these like two. conflicting emotions. And I was just. like, man, cuz I I've like screamed into. my pillow before, like when you know, especially when like the day that we. found out we were pregnant for the first. time, someone um hacked my wife's. Facebook and sent every single person. like family, friends, like. grandma, like my.

pornography. It's like we announced. we're pregnant. Five minutes later there's Damn. So I'm. like in moments like. that I was like I don't know what I like. obviously I'm like man I I'd love to you. know grab that it you know that IP. address and go like curb kick that. person but also like something in me. like it was almost like the first thing. I would think was like. man dad if you would have been there. this stuff wouldn't have happened. I.

wouldn't be experiencing. that. It's your fault. And it would go. from like, it's your fault to like, dad, it's your. fault. Why couldn't you just be there? You were down the. street. Like, why do you hate. me? And then just my heart broke and I'm. just. like, I have to forgive him.

And I don't know what that looks like, but I have to figure out a way. And then. I tell my wife, my wife be my wife. She. like some she like messages. um he's got, you know, I have a half. brother and sister that I don't know. very well, but she reaches out to. Justin. Um and then she gets his number. and then I end up with his number and. she's like, you know, very quickly she's. like, "Here you. go. Do what you need to do.

I called him and. um we had that phone call and it was. like man. um. like when I when I had that conversation. with him like it would it didn't go. exactly like I thought it would but a. million. pounds came off of me. Um, but what's really wild is in between. that dream and that phone call, the.

weekend I had with Victor. Marx was. um, nuts. Um, so we know Victor and it was uh it. was I think maybe it was like the third. or fourth time I'd hung out with him and. uh we were filming a uh a spiritual. warfare documentary. Um and.

uh he had interviewed me for that and. he's got you know this this prayer you. know this retooling prayer where you. identify like is there any you know. demonic oppression on you and calls them. out. We did it on here. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but he he did that with me and I was. just like, you know, it's like, you. know, I I say I'm like bad toal, you. know, I'm like Baptist in my theology.

and Pentecostal in my expression. Um but. like the demonic, you know, what like. wasn't super familiar with, you know, um. definitely experienced a lot of evil, but regarding stuff like that, not, you. know, not super in tune with. And um I. think your whole life's been spiritual. boyfriend, man. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um but I think of the.

demonic as Sorry. No, no, please. It's. traps. It's these [ __ ] traps. Yeah. It's vices. It's addiction. It's lust. Sex. It's temptation. Money. Yeah. Jealousy, resentment. Those are I think that I. think how the I think I think about this. [ __ ] all the time. I think that's how it.

works. Different traps work for different. people. Oh, sure. Yours was I mean, it doesn't sound like. yours was even really lust. It was more. fame and money. Yeah. And affirmation. Yeah. And your whole life has been. acceptance. Where can I get accepted? First one that came along or at least. the first one you noticed. Yeah. you.

know. was so there was three traps set. acceptance fame money. absolutely you know and so I think it's. if you if you display what you really I. don't know how to say this if you if you. display what you're really craving or. want whether it's you know sex. power, fame,

money, those things will come. Yeah, they might not be good. Yeah. I. mean, I I would say it's easy to fall. into this [ __ ] Oh, yeah. I see it all. the time. I mean, you're you're I mean, I think you're really tapping into. something important because the reality. is that most people that struggle with. porn, like porn is problematic in their. life, but porn is not their problem. Like porn is the band-aid that they've.

covered, you know, the the wound, the. lack, the. need with and now the the porn has. become problematic in their. life where you know you you started. watching porn um because of what. whatever. um but it was it's it's covering. something that's so much. deeper. That's why, you know, helping. people stop watching it. It's not you. shouldn't do that. We do stuff that I.

ought not do all the time, you know. Um. it's it's so much deeper than that. It's. like why why do I do what I do? Um in. contrast. of why do I do, you know, stuff that I. don't want to do? You know, Paul talks. about that like why why do I have this. this desire to do things I ought not do? Why do I find myself doing these things?

Yeah, but I mean it doesn't even. necessarily appear like a trap. It. doesn't look like a trap at the time. Well, that's a good trap though, right? And then and then you're in Well, a good. a good, you know, a good trap would have. camouflage. And I think, you know, that's why, you. know, John 10:10 talks about the enemy. wants to kill, steal, and destroy. And. you know, he you know, you're thinking. about, you know, if he's going to put. you in change, he's not going to show. you the the full picture of the chain. that you will be in. He's just going to.

show you a link and like how that that. link's not a big deal. Um, I love this. uh this this Dallas Willard quote. I. believe it's Dallas Willard, but just. talks about how repentance seems. easy at first and then after you sin it. seems impossible. you. know, I mean, how. like there's a demonic assignment on. each person and you know, I think.

the I would say the the biggest problem. especially like in like Protestant. circles is. this this negligence or this disbelief. that evil and tangibly impact your life. as a follower of Christ. Because are we. without sin? No. And when we sin, what. do we do? We we, you know, essentially.

invite an opportunity for deception, you. know. So, it's Yeah. I mean, I I love uh the. way that JP just like lays it out there. He spent two years just talking about, man, we're digging into the fact that, you know, there's that the the devil, like you're. not interested, you that you're not. interesting to the devil um per se, but. he's got legions of. demons that you know, they know the the.

wounds, you know, in your in your family. history. They know the things in which. you have a proclivity like towards. He. knows, you know, what kind of trap to. set for you. He can't make you take the. bait, but he can make it seem enticing. And even more so, um, once you take it, he can make you believe. that it's not a big deal. Mhm. Mhm.

But yeah, man, back uh to to that moment. with Victor. We were doing that. retooling prayer and I was like I was. pretty dismissive of it and then um we. did it and then as soon as he started. talking um it was like I was a kid and I. was in a. room. where it was he took me it took me to a. moment that I had suppressed as a kid. I. was 7 and a half years old and I was I.

heard my mom being hit by this guy that. she was married to. Um, and I there was the the dresser was. pressed up against the door and I was. pressing with my forearm against the. door and I got it open just enough where. I could see through it and I saw him. hitting her and I was screaming at him. and I felt so weak and so useless.

because I couldn't open that. door and then I cried until I fell. asleep. And um I woke. up and he was just like, "What what lie. did the enemy tell. you?" It's like that I'm not good. enough. It was just. like.

man and it was like so how do you undo. you know how do you undo something like. that? It's like how do you replace a. lie? Well, you have to replace it with a. truth. You know Thomas Kimpus talks. about habit has to be replaced with. habit. Um a lie has to be replaced with. truth. So, I'm like, man, um, how do I fix. this? How do I undo this? How do I, you.

know, what do I do with this? What do I. do with this like new like unearthed. trauma? You know, I've already like been. to counseling for two years. You know, I've already It was like something I I. didn't deal with. I never even thought. of. I didn't even know what happened. really. And the first thing I could. think of was again that dream when I was. praying, you know, that that moment when. I was praying, I was like, man, um the reason I don't believe that I'm. enough, it came.

from another. lie, that my dad wasn't there for. me. because I'm not good enough. I'm not. good enough to be your son. So, I'm going to choose to forgive him. in. spite of an. outcome. And I did. And I think the. enemy. like like I I I thought in my head like.

man, God had orchestrated this. incredible moment, you know, that I was. going to like when I called him there. was going to be like fireworks shooting. off and then we were going to like, you. know, grab some shotguns and go hunting. or something, you know, like. um but it was just not the case. And. um I was talking with a buddy of mine. recently, uh Matt Chandler, and um he.

was telling me the story of like him and. his dad like reconnecting like later in. life. And uh he was like I was like, "Well, how did you know how did that. happen?" And he was like, "Man, just. like randomly one day, I just got like. this inkling to say, "Hey, Dad. Um, I've. got access to this. cabin. I'm going out there for three. days. Hunt, fish, do all the stuff you.

love to. do. Why don't you come with me? It's all. on me. All it's all taken care of. Why. don't you come hang out with me?" And he. did. and, you know, ended up professing. Jesus as Lord, ended up having a great. relationship, even moved closer to him. And I was just. like, my dad like has a, you. know, he like my dad's like office like. looks like this. If it was like deer and.

boore and, you know, um I was like, he'll be all over. that. Send out the text. Look at. it. Show it to my. wife. Hit. send. 30 seconds go by. I don't think. it's going to. work. There was so much in me that. wanted to. like take 10 steps back, you know?

It's like man like. what what do I have to. do? But at the end of the day it's like. man I can't control his. decisions and I can't control like his. response to. dictate how I perceive reality and and. and live my life. All I can do is be the.

best father I can be and the best. husband I can be and be the best Christ. follower I can be and be be the best. leader in the organization that I'm a. part of. Um. it's not you, it's him. Yeah. I mean it. sucked, you know, it sucked. Like I. thought for sure like that. was it. But I think a better way to think about.

it, you know, as I'm sitting here, it's. like maybe it was a seed, you know, when. was that? 3 months ago. It's a lot of pain. Yeah. And it's wild. It's like, you. know, I I spend a lot of time talking. about porn and um but when I do men's. events, like I know. 90% or more of the guys there have or.

are struggling with porn. The thing that. I get to minister to people about is. that there's some kind of father wound. And there's there's levels of. fatherlessness. You know, there's. there's guys, you know, fathers that. they weren't there at all. Um there were. guy there are fathers that, you know, the divorce or death. or it would be easy for me to become the.

father that's absent in that I'm there, but I'm trying to overcompensate so hard. that I'm not present. So, so many guys with a similar wound. How do you keep that balance? How do I. keep the balance? Um, I mean, for for me it's like again.

like my wife is just the best. um where we were doing premarital. counseling and. um you know looking we were looking at. like the five love languages and um she. was saying well her top love language is. quality time and. naturally the way that we are naturally. inclined to love people is the way in.

which we most naturally received love. which often is not the same as our. spouse and you know with hope she wanted. quality time like she was like never. like not seen as like her family it's. like if they they fell out of the. Hallmark channel you know it's like not. real life you know she it's like she. talks to her mom and her sister multiple. times a day and you know they're on like.

you know I've her sister just had a baby. and they're like, you know, it it's it's. wild. It's nothing like I've ever seen. It's it's not uncomfortable, but it's. like it's so normal. It's weird to me. Um, but she was like, "Quity time." So, like. when I hear quality time, I'm like. quality date, quality dinner, quality, like something really good.

She's like, "Yeah, I want, you know, sit. on the the end of a pier where the water. is completely, you know, placid and just. sit there, you know, no folds, nothing, just unattached from. everything, just being you. The greatest. gift that you can give me, the greatest. present that you can give me is your. presence.". And that's hard for somebody that. doesn't think a lot of themselves. So it.

was almost like the the way. that the way that she required me to. love her. well allowed me to. heal. It was like, man, how could you. see that in. me? And um there's just been so many. times where she has just did things and. said things that have been so healing to. me. Um, so with our.

kids, you know, she reminds me that, you. know, like Canon especially, that's my. dude. Um, he he likes presents and likes. like. stuff, but the end of the day like he. wants me to sit on the ground and play. tic-tac-toe with it. Yeah. And it's like we over complicate simple. things that distracts us from the most.

meaningful things. It's a good way to. put it. So it's that it's, you know, the way. that she loves me well is she lovingly. course corrects me from time to time. Sometime it's, you know, a bony elbow. and sometimes it's a it's a kiss on the. cheek. But um she's never afraid to tell. me the truth and I appreciate that so. much about her. Sounds like a great.

woman. Oh. yeah. It is wild. I mean like we were we. were you know we were sitting um with a. group of people and someone asked her. like well you know in good faith they. were asking her like like gosh I I just. admire you so much like how do you not. have animosity towards him slept with. thousands of girls you know did all this. stuff it's all over the internet. and how do you not have like.

something like in you that causes you to. compare yourself, you know, like how do. you not have animosity and like how do. you not have that in you? And she was. like, well, I I knew him for 5 days. before he gave his life to Christ. Um, so I'm not going to hold his past. against him. Like, and. um I don't believe that when you Google.

him, you will find the thing that's most. true about him. The thing that's most. true about. him is that he is a son of the King of. Kings. So, I'm going to speak to him and. think of him the way that God does, not. the way that Satan. does because Satan would like me to hold. on to his past. But God says that is my. son whom I'm well pleased that's been.

forgiven and cleansed by his blood. Like. the prodigal son like but the prodigal. son took one step toward his father. The. father ran towards him and put a ring on. his finger sandals on his feet a robe on. his back and threw a party because you. know this he said this is my son who's. come. home. And I think, man, it's like if if. I think if we could just understand like. who God is, he would.

seem not only more attractive, but. irresistible. Wow, man. That is a hell of a story. Yeah, what a strong woman. Well, you want to. end it in a prayer? Yeah, let's do it. All right, you lead it.

Father, we thank. you. that we get to look at you and. say, "Aba, Father, we thank you for our time. together. And Lord, we just pray that um the. conversation that we had, it is both.

convicting and comforting in that it. doesn't matter what you've done. It. doesn't matter what's happened to you. It doesn't matter how far you've gone. You cannot outrun or out sin what Jesus. has done for you on the cross. and to the person that is wrestling with. and struggling with pornography. addiction. God, I pray that you lovingly. correct them, that you uh do not uh. condemn them for their sin. Um that if.

they are a follower of you, that they. are someone that would say, "Hey, I call. myself a follower of Jesus." Your word. says that uh Romans 8:1 that there is no. condemnation for those who are in Christ. Jesus. So I pray that uh they don't feel. condemned in shame. Uh they but they do. feel uh corrected in their spirit and. that this is not a good thing. Uh this. is not something that they should hide. This is something they need to tell. someone that's close to them and that uh.

they pursue freedom and healing. And. God, I just pray that um to the person. that um doesn't know you. That we. understand that uh we were created to. live forever and where we spend forever. is up to us. That you sent your son into. this world to die the death that we. deserved. He paid our debt on the cross. And God, I just pray that um to the. person that doesn't know you, that they. uh right now in this moment that you.

draw them close to yourself and they. say, "Hey, um I'm a sinner that needs. saving. I I don't know how to do it on. my own. Um but Jesus, I pray that you. come into my life that I turn from my. sin and I turn to you and I give you my. life and I trust you and I pray that. that you fill them with the Holy Spirit. so they can follow you with all their. life for the rest of their life. We pray. this all in Jesus mighty name. Amen. Amen. Well, Josh, thank you, man. Thank you. I just.

hope that. uh when I just hope that and I know you. will and I wish you the best of best of. success with what you're doing now and. spreading the message and and I just. hope that this. conversation, you know, just a lot of. people out there caught in a vice, a. trap, a prison, and they don't think. they can find their way out of it. I've. been in one multiple times. I know. I. mean, it's a big part of what we do and. and uh I just hope people take this and.

and realize there's always a way out. There is always a way out. Yeah. And. yeah, just the reality that wherever you. are. today, you're not you're not stuck. You. know, you're you you can change. It. doesn't have to always be this way. Um, that's the gospel that, you know, God. loves us enough to meet us where we are, no matter what our situation is. Um, but. he also loves us enough to not leave us.

as we are. God bless, brother. [Music]. [Applause]. No matter where you're watching Shawn. Ryan show from, if you get anything out. of this, please like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share. this everywhere you possibly can. And if. you're feeling extra generous, please.

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