Johnnie Clark - Surviving One of the Deadliest Jobs During the Vietnam War | SRS #317

[music]. Johnny Clark, welcome to the show. >> Thank you, Sean. I'm I'm really excited. about it. I It's a great honor. >> It's my honor. Thank you for being here. You know, I say this to all you guys, but you know, the the the the Vietnam. generation is is what motivated me to. join the military and and do what I did. And I was just infatuated with you guys.

from a very young age and uh really into. G.I. Joe's as we'll get into later. >> I got a story about G. >> I've heard I've heard and. [clears throat] um but uh but yeah, it's. truly an honor for you to be here. And I. was a machine gunner, too, for a little. while. So, >> that's cool, man. >> What What kind What was your your. machine gun? What was it? Well, we. started with the M60 and then it went. into the then they converted it to what. the I think they call it Bravo.

>> Mark 48. Yeah, the 240 twin 240s on top. of a Humvey are [ __ ] amazing. [laughter]. >> Couldn't get any Humvees where I was. But uh but yeah, it is it's an honor to. have you sitting here. Thank you. [clears throat]. >> Thanks. I this is really fun for my. whole family cuz my my son my son's a. lieutenant with the fire department at. Sun Coast uh Indian Rocks out on Indian. Rocks and uh uh the whole fire.

department are huge fans. >> Really? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. They found out uh Sean. goes in, he goes, "My dad's going to be. on this podcast, you know." And he said, "Uh, have you guys ever heard of Sean Ryan. podcast?" And they all went crazy. What? And then they yelled, "Who the hell is. your dad?" [laughter]. >> We'll have to load him up with some. stuff to take back to the department. >> Yeah. >> Um well, let me give you an introduction. here. >> Yeah. [clears throat].

>> Johnny Clark, you joined the Marine. Corps at 17 years old, straight out of. high school in St. Petersburg, Florida. Arrived in Vietnam at 18. assigned as a. machine gunner to the fifth marine. regiment in the middle of the battle of. forh city. You're wounded three times in. combat, a mortar, a grenade, and a. gunshot and were awarded the silver. star, three purple hearts, and the. Vietnamese cross of gallantry with palm. You [snorts] have written nine books. An. off Broadway played Guns Up and Guner's.

Glory are suggested reading at the. Marine Corps School of Infantry and Guns. Up sits on the command on the commandant. reading list. Recommended to every newly. commissioned officer at the basic. school. Wow. You recovered from your. wounds in Okinawa where you began. martial arts as physical therapy and. spent more than 50 years at it. You [clears throat] are now an eighth. Dan Grandmaster of Taekwondo, a member.

of the USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame, and you have taught hand-to-hand combat. seminars at West Point and the Naval. Academy in in Annapolis. Johnny, welcome home, brother. >> Thanks, buddy. Thanks. >> Okay, so before we get too crazy and do. your life story here, I have a Patreon. account. It's a subscription account. that's turned into quite the community. and they're the they're the reason that. I get the opportunity to sit down here. with you today and um so they get the.

opportunity to ask every single guest a. question and this is from a woman named. Amber. First off, thank you for your. service. What prompted you to write the. memoir of your military experience? And. can you give any advice to a daughter. wanting to preserve with her father's. story andor encourage him to write it? >> I wrote Guns Up out of anger. Uh, you. know, when I came home from NAM, I was I mean, my my first uh I I had.

gotten healthy in Okinawa. rehab there and been training in martial. arts and I thought I was going back to. NOM, but uh anyway, I came home and um. >> they threw tomatoes at us, El Toro. I. got off in El Toro and they I was. greeted with guys throwing tomatoes and. eggs at us and uh I was pushing a young. guy off uh off the plane who uh he. probably wasn't going to live. A lot of.

these guys were pretty shot up. I'd been. I'd had time to get healthy, so I was. healthy, but uh some of these boys were. a mess. And uh and they had a red carpet. and they were playing the Marine Corps. hymn for us and it was it was fun until. we got down the carpet there. It was at. El Toro and there was a big chainlink. fence and on the other side of the fence. protesters were throwing tomatoes and. eggs and stuff at us and that was my. greeting home and uh they had a bunch of. MPs there. We thought to protect us but. it was to keep us from getting to these.

guys and um so they wouldn't let us get. to them because I tried. Then I went. into town and I was in town. Uh I first. right away I got a um I I went to a bar. like most Marines, me and a kid from. California and there was a sign on the. bar that said no Marines or dogs allowed. in the bar. >> Are you serious? >> I'm dead serious. And I I uh got angrier. and I you know I'd already been. diagnosed with uh severe combat fatigue.

I take that back. that came. They. diagnosed me later, but I was, >> you know, I was a little antsy and uh an. angry guy because of the way we were. being treated. But then we went into we. this guy from California says, "Hey, uh, let's go to my hometown." You know, I. live down the road here. We'll catch a. Greyhound bus. They won't be like LA, you know. We'll get out of here. And so. I said, "Let's go." We go to the. Greyhound bus station. And I'm standing. there with my seabag and in a dress. greens, you know. I've been on American.

soil for about 11 hours or something. like that. [laughter]. And uh these two guys come up. They had. on fatigues, you know, army fatigues. And they rainbow patches. I don't know. what they had all over them, but the. peace signs. And they made a couple of. comments and I think one of them spit on. my shoes. And anyway, I decked this guy. Well, there were some cops there. arresting an old wino at the bus. station. And they dropped the wino. I'm. home. >> [laughter]. >> I'm just home just a few hours and I'm. on my way to jail and uh they got me.

cuffed. They drive down the street and. they I see him look in the rearview. mirror and they go uh fifth Marines, huh? Well, I knew right away I was safe. cuz only another Marine would know that. pogy rope, you know. And [snorts] uh. said, "Yeah." And they said, "Yeah, we. were in 25." So I then I knew I was. safe. They brought me to a bus station, [clears throat] got my seabag out of the. trunk, took the cuffs off me, put me on. a bus back to El Toro, [laughter]. and I never got I never got to see. anything. That was my that was my.

welcome home. So then I Yeah, that was. my welcome home. But I it got worse and. worse as I tried to go to college. And. uh down the line I became a mailman and. I got injured on the job and I I lost my. job as a mailman uh with a back injury. that came out of Vietnam. I had to jump. out of a chopper. The pilot got killed. and anyway uh uh so I I lost my job as a. mailman and my job at teaching martial. arts at the University of South Florida.

So my wife said, "Hey, you can you got. to make a living another way here." And. I said, "Oh, yeah. I think you're. right." So, I took this creative writing. course at St. Pete College and I kept. taking the same course over and over. again because they would critique 10. pages a week. So, I uh it was nonredit. course, you know, at night. I took this. course like, you know, 15 times to get. the book published [laughter]. >> and because they critiqued my whole. book, but that's how I wrote a book. And. I'll tell you the rest of that story.

later. We can talk about other stuff, but I wrote that book out of anger. because it came from people saying, "You. need to tell what the Marines were. really doing in NOM." You know, they. weren't killing women and kids and you. know, and that's what they were. The. American people really believed that. And uh so I I wrote it out of anger and. uh but God took that and turned it. completely around. But I learned I learned that if you. wanted to write something, the the most.

important thing I got out of all those. creative writing courses was write like. you talk because I I I barely got out of. high school. I had like, you know, Dminus average. They only they only kept. me they kept me in a couple of classes. because I was I was on a really good. football team and I was no superstar, but they needed me. [laughter] So So. they didn't want to flug me. So, I got. like a D minus in English and I took the. easiest math you could take. I I took uh.

um what was it? Math. Uh business math. It was the easiest you could take. I. mean, even the word algebra scared me. So, I I stayed away from anything like. that. And I had a I had an old football. coach and uh he had played for the. Chicago Bears. and he he picked me up. and he shook me and he said, "Clark, if. we didn't need you on this team, I'd. fail you, but I'm giving you a D minus.". [laughter]. So, so I was least likely to ever write.

anything truly. And uh but I had a I had. a real purpose for writing Guns Up and I. I I mean I I had an inspiration and I. had a story to tell and I I really. wanted to I wanted to honor God, you. know, that was a big big deal to me. And. but uh I wanted to honor the guys I. served with because they were they were. just outstanding. But if you were going. to try to write anything, write like you. talk. Take some creative writing courses.

You're going to learn a lot. But writing. today and getting published, uh, everything's different. The whole. publishing world's so different, you. know. I It's my story is kind of a. miracle story. But, um, I [snorts] I. don't know. Writing today, write it for. yourself and write it because you love. it. >> Don't write it trying to be write a. bestseller or trying to make money off. it. If you love writing, write it. because you love writing and and you. want to write it for family. Cuz that's.

how I wrote Guns Up really. I I only. wrote it for my kids. I thought they. would at least know the truth. I'm. starting to hear a lot of lot of people. kids, not kids. They're not kids. anymore. A lot of the. offspring from the Vietnam generation is. uh they they they want their parents'. stories. And uh it's it's interesting. this Patreon question just came in. because I literally just interviewed a. woman uh here for a a job and she had.

watched all the Vietnam interviews I had. done and her dad is u a Vietnam vet who. apparently had a really rough go and and. uh is trying to find some healing has. overcome cancer and she's worried she. wants she wants his memoir before before. he passed. classes and um. >> write it. Write it not thinking of. getting published. Write it for your. family and and if you write it and.

rewrite it and eventually if you want to. get it published now, I mean you can. self-publish on Amazon now. >> Anybody can. >> Yep. [snorts] Well, let's get into your. story. You ready? >> Okay. Yeah. It's. >> actually you get a gift, too. >> Oh, >> here you go. Almost forgot. >> Oh, gummies. Gummy vigilance league. gummy bears legal in all 50 states. Made. in the USA up in Michigan. It's just. candy. It's just candy. We'll load your.

uh fire department up with those. >> Love them. Love them. Hey, I've got uh I. got a gift for you. >> Oh. >> Uh. >> I [clears throat] love gifts. >> I seen some of the pe the gifts people. have g I watched Jeremiah Johnson. My. wife and I watched it and uh when he. gave you those gifts, the the papyrus, you know, >> she said, "Johnny, don't even go. [laughter] You got nothing to give him.". >> So I I had a Bible, my little Gideon. Bible had a shrapnel hole in it that.

saved my life. >> Wow. >> And uh I said, "I think maybe if I give. Sean that, it'll be impressive enough.". And my my daughter heard this. M. >> dad, if you give that away, I will slit. your throat. [laughter]. Daughter of a a nonvet. But so I brought. something a little less than a Bible. with shrapnel a hole in it. Uh. ah. >> oh man. >> Sweatshirt. >> I love it. >> Yeah. Guns up. >> Thank you.

>> And uh and this one [snorts]. there's a story behind this one. uh. years after uh I'd been home for many. years and one of the coremen that worked. on me at one time or another uh his name. was Doc Turley uh he he he's dead now. died of age in orange but uh he showed. up at my door 30 years after the war I. didn't even know who it was you know you. don't recognize each other after all. that shows up at my door and he pulls. out this and he goes.

Why walts when you can rock and roll? >> Oh man, that's awesome. [laughter]. >> So So. >> thank you. >> Holy [ __ ] I got some of those made. because all machine gunners get it. >> I love that, man. That's awesome. I'm. gonna wear the [ __ ] out. >> And a couple of books. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Thank you.

All right, Johnny. So, where did you. grow up? >> Let's do. >> What do we want to talk about first? >> Where did you grow up? >> Oh, I'm sorry. Um, I grew up in uh South. Charleston, West Virginia. I uh. had a I lived in poverty. My uh my mom. was married before she met my dad. And. uh her first husband, she had two kids. with the first husband. and her first. husband uh was uh hit three times and.

killed in the Battle of the Bulge. And. so then she married my dad and um my dad. was destroyed in a car wreck uh and was. blind and crippled for the last seven. years of his life. And he was real young. and so she had she had uh three kids. with my dad, but one baby died. So. anyway, my mom couldn't she couldn't. support us. My dad was totally uh. crippled and blind and uh you know I sh.

we lived on 70 bucks a month. We lived. in a garage for a long time and actually. first when I was a baby it was a log. cabin out in West Virginia hills out in. Lincoln County. Uh but then we we lived. in a garage in South Charleston, onecar. garage and we had a had a bedroom that. was just curtains for my dad cuz he was. he was in a body cast for a whole year. after this wreck. And uh uh it's a. pretty awful sad story, but uh but I as.

a kid, you know, you know, you you deal. with this stuff. And so I I would bring. my uh my little friends in. I was like. about 6 years old. So I bring my buddies. in to see my dad uh cuz he looked like. the mummy cuz he's in a body cast the. whole way. And so we'd go in and I'd. charge him like a nickel to come in and. see the mummy. [laughter]. So, so I bring kids in to see my dad, but he finally he, you know, he finally. a year after that he they he got out of. the body cast, but he lost his memory.

for a year. He didn't he didn't know me. or my sister. >> Uh he didn't know the other kids. He. didn't know my mom. Uh but he finally. got got his memory back. And u uh. >> he lived he lived for about seven years. And uh so I he died when I was about 10. But in the meantime, my mom had to give. up the kids. I was the only one she kept. cuz I was a baby. So, um, she gave my. brother and sister from her first. husband, Jimmy and Judy. Gave gave them.

to grandparents in Wilmore, Kentucky. So, they grew up there. And she gave my. sister to grandparents out in Lincoln. County, West Virginia, out on Mlullen. Farm. It was between the Hatfields and. McCoys. And uh her name was Evelyn. Evelyn Jane. Well, Evelyn um she grew up. between the Hatfields and McCoys. She's. actually married to a McCoy now. She. married Kirby McCoy. >> So So uh that Hatfields and McCoy thing. was its own war, buddy. They.

>> Yeah, >> serious business. So uh but yeah, I grew. up then we moved out of that garage. We. moved into a Quanset hut, which is kind. of funny. Very military. There was an. old It was an old World War II quansidut. that this old lady named Alice White, she had bought it and turned it into. like a little house and rented it and uh. gave uh gave us a place to live. So I. lived in that and then uh my dad died. then we moved to St. Pete, Florida when.

I was 10. Just me and mom and uh the. rest I the rest last 65 years I've lived. in St. Pete. >> Wow. If you have a dog that gets picky about. food, you know how frustrating that can. be. You put the bowl down, they sniff. it, walk away, and now you're trying to. figure out if they're bored, if they. don't like it, or if they're just. holding out for something better. Sunday's just launched a brand new fish. recipe designed for dogs with.

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50% off your first order at. sundaysfordogs.com/srs50. sundaysfordogs.com/srs50. or use code srs50 at checkout. >> Did you keep in touch with any of your. brothers and sisters? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, we we're still close. My. well, my sister Judy died and uh we had. a baby died, but um my sister Evelyn and. my brother Jimmy still lives in uh he.

lives in Lexington and my uh sister. lives in Florence, Alabama. But yeah, we're still close. >> How'd you guys reconnect? >> Well, they would send me every summer, mom would send me to to stay with uh. Jimmy and Judy in Kentucky, or else they. she'd send me out to the hills of. Lincoln County to stay on the farm with. Evelyn. So, we stayed close growing up. So, you know, like every summer I'd. spend a month or two in Wilmore, a month. in out in the hills and uh they they.

would come to see mom when they could. and when they got old enough to drive, they would they would come in and come. to see mom and I'd see them then. Sheesh. Yeah, it was it was a tough. upbringing. I mean, I literally got my. food out of old army. Uh, they were like. crashing cans. You know, we had these. big green government cans that from. World War II that had spam and uh, you. know, various foods and that's uh,

Salvation Army would bring us a bunch of. that kind of food and that's kind of. kept us going. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. We It was poverty, but you know, I. was such a happy kid. It didn't bother. me a bit. I I I was having fun. >> What kind of stuff were you into as a. kid? >> I wanted to be a Marine since I was 5. years old. >> So, [laughter]. I put together a a group of kids and I. was the leader and uh we were the.

Marines and we would uh we had a a a. place I named Marine Hill [laughter] and. we had wars with other kids. Yeah. You. know, we BB gun wars. You know, this is. back when you got away with that kind of. crap. You know, we we'd wear coal miner. helmets and goggles and uh we'd have a. war with the uh Blackwell Street gang. and we were the Brown Street gang and uh. uh we'd build forts, they'd drive by and. I invented a machine gun. We would uh.

it was a uh remember the when kids used. to wear the old uh the little red. handkerchiefs, you know, cowboy. handkerchief things? Yeah. So, I would. you'd fill it full of rocks and you. would hold uh you'd hold all four. corners, but you'd hold the fourth. corner just between there and you'd. and you'd let go and it would spray. rocks. You could take out three or four. kids [laughter] with So, so that we. invented a machine gun. That was my my.

machine gun. But the enemy, you know, stole my design and pretty soon they. were using it on us and uh built giant. slingshots. We I built a giant slingshot. and they'd ride by on their bikes. They. were buzz bombers, you know, and they'd. ride by on their bikes and throw rocks. at us or hit us with machine guns and uh. we'd knock them off their bikes with. [laughter] with this giant slingshot. >> Yeah. You can't do that today. I But uh. >> Well, maybe not in most places like.

around here. You probably can. >> Yeah. You know, Tennessee, you guys. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> What What So, what uh what caught your. interest at 5 years old in the Marine. Corps? >> Pardon? >> What caught your interest at 5 years. old? >> Well, my uncle, you know, I like I said, I there wasn't too much beautiful in uh. in my life. We I didn't have much. All. my toys came from Salvation Army or. somebody, you know, or gifts from this. group or that group. And uh so I had one.

uncle, I had a few uncles, but I had one. who was stood out and he was a Marine. He had uh joined the Marine Corps and. kind of got out of the West Virginia. poverty, you know, and uh you know, one. of those one of those no-neck guys, you. know, stout knock people out with. headbutts, you know, tough tough Marine. Uh and I just idolized him. You seeing. somebody in that Marine Corps uniform, I. [snorts] and he was a tough guy. Well, they all were. All my uncles were pretty.

tough guys. U but the Marine stood out. And uh so he'd come home, you know, get. liberty and come home and play with me, do push-ups with me and my buddies on. his back. And you know, he just I just. looked up to him and that was the. beginning of it. But you remember when I. was a little kid, uh the movies were uh. Sands of Euima. You know, the Marines. were they were seen as the best. And u. you know, all my life I I wanted to I. wanted to be in the Marines. I wanted to.

be a Marine. My mom knew it too. Uh when I, you know, when I was I joined when I was 17, I got. an early entry. And uh boy, when mom. found out about that, she she was going. to let me join anything but the Marines. You know, she she said, "No, you'll be. the first one killed. You're not going.". [snorts] And uh yeah, my poor mom. Six. heart she had six hearts, you know, three from her first husband. So she she went through that. the guy's.

coming up to the door with the telegram, you know, and they don't tell you how. the person is. Just wounded in action, condition unknown. And uh she uh it was. rough for. >> [ __ ] How long had the Vietnam War been. going on when you were decided to join? >> I I joined in ' 67. Okay. >> And um it had been going on. I mean, you. know, we had guys over there in the 50s. So, uh but um 6768, you know, that that. it got really hot. Yep. Yep.

>> What I'm just rewinding a little bit. I. mean, >> losing your dad at 10 years old. >> Yeah. It was tough. But there's a story, a good story out of that. My dad wasn't. a Christian. And um when. when he was when he was blinded and. crippled and he finally got his memory. back a year, you know, a year being in. the ozone, uh. he he was led to Christ by my grandpa.

and others. And my dad became a strong. Christian. So that's seven years that he. lived, he lived seven years as a man of God. And because of that, you know, I came to. Christ and um and my whole family. So my. my dad played a role in saving the whole. family. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> So and that might I don't think that. would have happened if he hadn't been. blind cuz he was a hell raiser. And uh I.

don't think that would have happened. So. it it took that horrible tragedy to. bring my dad to the Lord. And you know. what scripture says, be better to pluck. out your eyes than to miss out on. heaven. And uh in my dad's case that. that was the case. >> I'll be damned, man. Thank you for. sharing that. Thank you for sharing. that. Well, let's move into enlisting. Yeah. Yeah. I I uh joined at 17 and I u.

had some bad omens right right away. I. was going in the buddies buddy system, you know, and I had a couple of buddies. from the high school football team were. going to go in with me. Um, and had. three of them. I signed up, going to show up down at. the recruiters, get on the Greyhound bus. to Jacksonville, you know, and get. inducted and do all that. And um, I Nobody showed up. [laughter]. >> You were the only one.

>> My buddies disappeared. >> [laughter]. >> So, [gasps] so I I went by myself, but. it's funny those three guys, well, one. one went in the Navy uh and uh one ended. up going uh in the army and uh becoming. Army Ranger and he went to NAM a year. later after uh and then the other one. went in uh and uh he was in uh 101st. [snorts] and he went he stayed in he.

went all the way from private to. Lieutenant Colonel. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, they didn't join with me, but. And they both went none of them went in. the Marine Corps. They went in the Army. So, >> Right on. [laughter] Right on. So, how. was it? >> Well, >> how was. >> get to Jacksonville? >> Yeah. >> And uh uh I've said my goodbyes, you. know, got got couple of little. cheerleaders waving goodbye to me. You. know, it was an important moment in a. guy's life. And uh uh so at Jacksonville.

they tell me uh they they 4F me said you. you've got a hernia and I said I don't. have a hernia and yeah you know this is. your out kid you don't want to go to. Vietnam right now and I you know these. Navy doctors are telling me this and I I. said no no I want to go. That's why I'm. here. [laughter] I want to go. And he. said uh now this is your out. Don't be. stupid kid. And uh he said you got a. hernia. you can't go. Well, I started I. said, "No way." And I started doing uh I.

was young and strong and I started doing. one- arm push-ups and I'm doing back. flips and I'm seeing I can do anything. I say I'm perfectly healthy and uh a one. of the guys, one of my buddies from NAM. was there that day. His name was Pat. McCra. He saw me doing all this. He's a. witness to this insanity. He said, "We. thought you were crazy, man." [laughter]. So, so he said he saw all that cuz he so. he can verify that this actually.

happened. But I did everything to make. sure they let me in. Well, I'm there. We're in this hotel Fidian or something. like that. I think it was what it was. called. And uh first night there, you. know, before we're going to go to Paris. Island, we I go up the stairs and uh. some maniac comes in the lobby and I'm. going up the stairs and there's there's. where you sign in and uh. this guy starts opening fire in and in. in the lobby of the hotel. He's got a 45.

cal and he's blasting away and he's. shooting the steps under my feet as I'm. going up the steps. [laughter] And I. whoa, I'm not even there yet. They're. trying to kill me. And uh I I never did. find out what what that was about. But. that guy took off and a couple of. seconds later, these MPs come running in. and I never heard what that story was. about, but it's a true story. >> Never heard. But that was that was my. welcome to the Marine Corps. >> Damn. [laughter].

>> Yeah. And then [clears throat] uh in. Paris Island, boy, that was, you know, that was insane. I I was I was begging. to get to NAM just to get out of Paris. Island. I mean, they got my attention. Yeah. I. I saw some crazy stuff there. I was on. PT a guy uh he was he uh he was a fat. body. You know that fat body to the end. of the line. Anyway, they they were. going to drive him out of the Marine. Corp. >> I think the Marine Corps likes fat. bodies. >> Oh boy. They You either lose the weight. >> It's more of a Navy thing.

>> They. they they put this guy they made him do. leg lifts until he got a hernia and he's. screaming in agony. And I'm thinking. this is this is serious. This is awful. This guy's in agony. They cussed him out. of out of our barracks. We the old World. War I barracks, the old wood barracks on. Paris Island. We're in the upstairs. We. were all at attention as they are. watching this as as the DIS cursed him.

They took him out on a stretcher. The. the uh Navy guys came in and put him on. a stretcher. They're taking him out. They cursed him all the way to the. ambulance saying, "We told you we'd. drive you out of our Marine Corps.". >> Damn. >> A serious. And then I saw another guy. who lost it and he went up the water. tower at Paris Island. Well, we didn't. know. I mean, I never saw this, but all. of a sudden, we're being marched out to. the water tower and and we're not. allowed to look around. If you even. looked, I I looked one time and I I.

don't cuss anymore, but it was if in the. area, and if you were caught if in the. area, you got hit. Nate, this DI caught. me looking like that because there was. we saw girls we had [laughter]. and he came up. He kicked the my legs. out from under me. That was that was. still black and blue when I got the nom. He kicked me so hard I thought he broke. my leg. Well, you didn't do that. You. look straight at the guy's head in front. of you. So, I didn't know where I was.

going, but now I know I'm marching on. grass. Pretty soon they tell us we can. look up and here's all the whole. battalion is around the water tower and. here's this guy. [laughter]. This poor sap is up on the water tower. screaming if if you don't let me out of. the Marine Corps I'm going to jump. [laughter]. >> And these DIs now they're you know. they've all got their platoon out there. They go all right we're ready now. I. didn't I didn't bring all these Marines.

down here to watch nothing. Jump. [laughter]. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> Of course, he came down and he said, "If. you come down from there and don't jump, we're going to beat the hell out of. you." Well, he he finally came down. He. didn't jump and they beat the crap out. of that guy. I know. They just beat the. to out of that guy. So, >> that probably wouldn't happen today. >> Oh, no. No. It wouldn't happen today, man. >> They got little chits now. I think that. would raise up.

>> I I even heard that the obstacle course. that was I heard the obstacle course uh. you know that we had to do uh is now for. display only. What. >> it's what I was told my my a gunner Chan. talk about Chan remarkable guy uh he he. went back to PI and he said yeah he said. the obstacle course is for for display. only. >> Wow. and and he was told can make some. people mad with this one, but he was.

told that uh you know a lot of the women. Marines they couldn't do that obstacle. course and uh. they got rid of it. I don't know if it's true. [laughter]. Wouldn't be far out there, man. So, how. so how was the rest of uh how was the. rest of basic? Um, [clears throat] I went to from there. went to machine gun school. >> And.

>> is that what you wanted to do? >> Uh, no. No, they just they just put me. there, you know, and you had to you had. to shoot all the weapons and I shot. really well with the machine gun. So, they threw me in machine gun school. Like, I think that's how they figured it. out. And, uh, I was too dumb to have a. an MOS doing anything else, [laughter]. right? >> So, so they put me uh put me in machine. gun school. And uh you know and then I. you know I I started seeing the recon. marines there you know and and I came up. with this brilliant idea but Chan and I.

he was this Chinese Chan was uh with me. all the way from PI from the day we. joined alphabetical [clears throat] Chan. and Clark you know we got stuck together. all the way through the Marine Corps and. uh Chan was Chinese American been. smuggled out of Red China as a baby uh. his dad was a doctor got him out of. China uh He was a genius. He he had and. he had a minor in ministry and uh I. think from the University of Tennessee. and uh so Chan was going to be an open.

heart surgeon. Now you hear one guy say. that and you think yeah me too. But you. know this Chinese guy was he was a giant. brain you know and and uh and for me to. get stuck with him you know I I had that. IQ of 000. I'm stuck with this giant. brain. And he had this giant vocabulary. and he'd use words. I didn't even know. what the hell he was talking about. I. said, "What are you saying?" But Chan. was he wanted to join the Marine Corps.

He wanted to pay America back for taking. his family in. I mean, how do you not. love a guy like that? It's cool. Yeah, it's cool. I mean, if only some of the. immigrants felt that way today, man. I. mean, you know, really. But Chan wanted. to join the Marine Corps. He could have. been an officer. He didn't have to be a. dumb PFC machine gunner. I mean, he, you. know, he had a college degree. He was he. was smart as heck. So Jay and I were in. machine gun. We both fired expert with a. machine gun. And they and we're I I came.

up with this brilliant idea. We I want. to go recon cuz I'm telling him the. recon guys get to wear those little gold. wings, man. It's a chick magnet. I mean, we're gonna We'll pick up [laughter]. we'll pick up girls everywhere. So I he goes, "Clark, do you ever think. of anything else?" You know, and he. gives me some big, you know, 10-centent. word to describe that I'm not being. right. And uh I said, "Come on, Chan. Go.

with me, man. I you don't want to you. don't want you don't want to leave me. alone. You don't we've been this far.". And he goes, "All right." So we put in. our request to go to uh Recon. And uh. one night, this is a true story. This is. right out of a movie, but we had this. old sergeant. Um, I think it was a. master sergeant, but he he lived in the. barracks with us at Camp Lun, the. machine gun school barracks. Well, got. all these racks, you know, regular. barracks with all the all these machine.

gunners. and he had an office at the end. and about 2:00 in the morning. Uh he. comes comes out and takes a one of those. old metal garbage cans that we had the. plastic garbage and he heaves this metal. garbage can down the squad bay and he. hits the lights and starts screaming, "Guns up, guns up, guns up." So. everybody out of the racks standing at. attention at the uh end of your Iraq. [snorts] and he he's got he's got a. fifth of booze in his hand and he's.

angry. [laughter]. He's an angry Marine and uh he's got a. bunch of orders. He's got orders in his. left hand and so and it was transfer my. transfer workers to to go to recon and. Chans and I guess maybe a couple of the. other guys wanted to go recon and uh so. he he says Clark gives me a piece of. chalk. He says draw a line down the. center of the barracks. Everybody put. your toes on that line. You know, so we. all line up on this line and he says,

"Okay, all you Marines, all you. gunners," at first he tells how bad we. need gunners, and we did, you know, we. really did. Uh uh in the fifth Marines, when I got there, the the they told me. every machine gunner in the fifth. marines have been killed or wounded. So, we really needed machine gunners. and uh. and he knew that he had he you know he. had got all the battlefield casualty. list and they knew all that stuff and so.

[clears throat]. >> suddenly machine gunner is kind of a. critical MOS but even though you could. be as dumb as a stump and still be one. [laughter]. So he uh he says, "Uh, okay, all you. Marines that join my Marine Corps to. kill the enemy, stand still. And all you Marines that. join my Marine Corps to find the enemy. and tell us to go kill them. Step over. that line." And nobody stepped over the.

line. And I I mean, it was like I stood. there. I mean, he shamed us. It was like. being in the Alamo. Wow. >> Step over the line if you want to leave. the Alamo. And but it worked. Not one. guy tried to go to recon. We all just. stayed in machine guns. [laughter]. >> No. >> I saw my little gold wings flying out in. Paris. [laughter]. >> I really wanted those wings, man. >> Wow. Yeah. So, we get to we got to numb. and. >> you know, I thought it was bologn, but.

because they told us in machine gun. school, 7 to 10 seconds after a. firefight begins. And uh we thought that's, you know, that's bologoney. It can't be true. And. then we get there and all the machine. gunners have been killed or wounded. Man, I mean, so you went to the battle. of of Hugh immediately. >> That's where you showed up. The Battle. of Hugh. That's where you wanted. >> Okay. We city. Yeah. We um Yeah. I uh.

No, >> City. >> That's a little wrong because I I mean, I got there for Wei. Uh and I got there. when Weey was ending, but I just was at. the very end of Weey City. Uh all I all. I did in Wayi City is step in a punchy. pit. I, you know, puny pits with the uh. I stepped in it and it it broke. It. didn't go through my boots. You know, God saved me. First week of Numb and. he's already saving me. So I but I I.

just did patrols trying to, you know, get the uh the NBA that were trying to. get out away at the end there. But yeah, I didn't I didn't really fight in way. city. I I. >> But you went But you went straight from. machine gunner school to Vietnam. >> Yeah. No, no. I I then I went to Camp. Pendleton. >> Okay. What did you do? >> For a jungle warfare school. >> Gotcha. >> Yeah. And uh you know that that little P. thing that school they give you. And um. yeah, jungle warfare.

uh that was eye opening too. But uh you. know I mean after Paris Island. everything was duck soup. But then there. in uh in Jungle Warfare School after it. was over, they gave u they gave us uh I. think it was 24 or 48 hours liberty. And. so I uh I talked Chan into I had a way. of talking Chan into trouble. So I. talked Chan into going to Tijana, you. know. I said we we. >> Oh, what were you doing down there? >> I wanted to go to Tijana. Let's So I.

talked Chan into We got to go to Tijana, man. All these I hear. So uh. >> lots of things. >> Yeah. lots of things. So, I talked him. into going to Tijana. So, we go to. Tijana and uh we're in one of those. really seedy bars, you know, and there's. a bunch of Marines in there, of course. And uh uh there's activity going on. It. was pretty despicable. But they bring us. over a bunch of drinks. You know, I had. we had ordered, it was four of us, four. Marines, and uh we'd ordered four.

drinks. This this big Mexican guy comes. over with a tray full of drinks. And I. said, "Well, no, we only won four and he. expects us to pay for him." And uh well, that that led to a confrontation. And. so, uh I I I a big brawl start, big huge. fight. Uh and, uh I realized this is. getting ugly. Let's get out of here. So, me and Chan are trying to crawl out cuz. bottles fly everywhere, people fighting.

all over the place. And we got to the. door and the Tijana police were there. and then everybody said he started it. [laughter]. I didn't do anything. Uh but I I was. almost innocent. >> They put you in the clank. >> Yeah. Well, they they uh Tijana police. threw us in the Tijana Brig jail and. then the shore patrol came and got us. out of there and threw us in uh the Navy. Brig and then they took me into San.

Diego, me and Chan. And uh oh, he was so. mad at me cuz Chan would never do any of. the stuff. [laughter]. So, uh we're in uh that was the last. time I saw San Diego was Tijana Brig. But then they then the Marines came and. got us. They threw us in a Redline bron. Have you ever heard anything about. those? >> I haven't. >> Oh, they're awful. Um, yeah, the Redline. Brig, uh, you stand at attention and. there's a there was a big wall. Of. course, you know, there's a war going. on. They take some guys would get in.

trouble like this and think it was going. to keep them from going to Dom. But, you. know, I that is I wasn't doing that. I. just I mean, I just I hit this guy. because he was trying to extort money. out of us. [laughter]. So, so anyway, we're got our face up. against the wall. You stand at attention. and uh if you had to go to the head, you. know, you had to they had the MP. jailers, they're marching up and down. behind you and you got your face up. against the wall and if you move your.

face away from that wall, they hit the. back of your head and it drives your. face into the wall and that's why it's. called a red line brick. There's there's. bloody red where everybody's faces would. be. There's a red line and there's just. drips of blood all the way down this. wall. It's a. >> red line break. So, uh that was they. Yeah, those guys they didn't play games. and I I wanted out of there, but I had. orders from N for NOM like the next day. So, [clears throat] we didn't sp we only.

I [snorts] don't know, we might have. spent eight hours in the Redline Brig. and they said, "You got orders for NOM, you're out of here." and they took us. out of there and. put us on the bran of old Braniff. Airlines and uh flew us to Nam. >> Oh wow. So what was it like when you. landed at NOM? [clears throat] Was it what you. expected? >> It was uh I I didn't know what to. expect. I mean I'll be honest with you, you know, I was such a kid. I look back.

at it. I was such a gung-ho dumb kid, you know, and I [clears throat] but Chan. had been reading about Weey City. [laughter] He read newspapers and uh. he's telling me, "Yeah, you know, there's a lot going on way city. I think. we're going to be going to Way City.". And I said, "Oh, okay." So, we get off. the plane and then we follow through. this uh and as soon as we got off the. plane, you know, that heat from Vietnam. hits you and you're going, "Whoa." You. know, I'm from Florida, but this was a. different kind of heat. and uh u and we.

and we see the the phantoms jetting down. the airirst strip and taking off and we. could hear artillery [laughter] and all. of a sudden you're going crap it's a. real war man you know I'm in a real war. here so they we file through uh they're. giving us our orders and I I always. remember the sergeant he uh you go. through and hand him your orders and. he'd stamp it big red stamp fifth. Marines next fifth Marines next fifth. Marines. and everybody was getting sent to the. fifth Marines. And I I said, "Jan, why.

you know, why is everybody going to the. Fifth Marines, man?" I And he goes, "Didn't you read in the newspapers I've. been giving you, [laughter]. the Fifth Marines are taking way city?". And I said, "Oh, they need guys." And he. goes, "Yeah, stupid. They need guys.". So, uh, Fifth Marines it was, but way. city was really ending. And uh uh I uh. you know I didn't I really didn't do. anything away except patrols around it.

and uh I didn't do anything. So I I. really wasn't away. >> How long were you there. >> in Nam. >> in Wei City? >> Oh we Oh jeez, just a couple of days. patrols and then they uh brought us back. to Fubai. Uh, and then they uh then they. sent uh they sent us down to a place. called Troy Bridge and uh yeah, things started getting hot there. >> Right on. >> Yeah. >> Right on.

>> You didn't have any Did you Did you know. anybody that had been to Vietnam before. you or. >> No, >> you were just right. You just popped. right in there. >> Yeah, I didn't know I didn't know. anybody. >> [ __ ] Were you nervous? I I you know I I was you know like super. excited. Um I mean the pretty soon you. know I mean you can't tell nerves from. fear but um but I yeah I I was kind of. still as a it was a great adventure and.

I I was so young that I just saw it as. just you know right now it's a huge. adventure but you know once you once you. got out in the bush. yeah the adventure is over and this is. uh. this it's got it was hard. >> It was hard. You know, I first time I. got hit, I I lost uh well, I went over. there at 160 pounds and uh. first or second time I got hit, I was uh.

they sent me to a hospital when uh they. sent me to to Daang, but there was so. many wounded Marines that they they. didn't have any beds. They got guys. laying in blood all over the floors. And. so they threw a bunch of us on a C130. and flew us down to an Air Force. hospital and uh Cameron Bay and you know. after 6 months in the jungle getting to. Cameron Bay [laughter]. the Air Force. the Air Force they live a different.

life. They uh [laughter]. aironditioned hospital. Uh they ate off. plates and trays and uh they had. flushing toilets and I went into the. head once I was able to walk and there's. these crazy Marines. these stupid Marines in the in the. bathroom and he's he's going Clark. come here man. Listen to this. He flushed the toilet. [laughter].

I'm going Oh. Oh my god. When you're when you're. entertained by [laughter] hearing a. flushing toilet. Uh I mean I'm sorry but. it it's true. >> Oh man, >> that that in that hospital when when all. the guys started coming out of the. morphine and stuff [laughter]. where uh you wake up and you're going, "Hey, who you with, man?" Uh Seventh. Marines. Hey, who you with? 26 Marines. And I'd say uh you know, oh, fifth. Marines. And so the whole hospital is.

filled with wounded Marines. It, you. know, was tad offensive. And so, uh, this one kid couple of beds down on. where I was, but the other ward, it was. the same story. And so, this this one. kid, he's he's wouldn't say anything. Think, yeah, you know, he's he's still. in shock or something, you know. And a. couple of days later, he was the same. thing. Hey, who you with, man? Hey, who. you what you 26 Marines? Who's Hey, who's that guy with? And he wouldn't say. anything. Finally, the guy started.

harassing him. And who you with, man? And he goes, I'm in the Air Force. [laughter]. So So all these Marines go, "What?" Then. you see these wounded guys sit up and. go, "What' [laughter] you do? >> What'd you do? Step on a nail.". >> And so. >> he's like, "No, it was a thumbtack.". >> He says, [laughter] he goes, "No, it's. my mom's fault, man." You know, he was. he was a nice young guy. He goes, "No,

it's my mom's fault, man." Said, "My. brother's a Marine, and she kept sending. me letters, and she'd been contacting my. CO telling telling him to make me go. check on my brother and see how he's. doing." So, I so I finally said, "Okay.". And I hopped a ride up to uh up to. Daang. And then they they threw me on a. chopper and flew me out to Anois, Anwa. [clears throat] combat base. And uh he. said I got off. I didn't even I didn't.

even walk off the tarmac and they got. hit and I got wounded and I got a purple. heart. [laughter]. >> Holy [ __ ]. Damn. >> So every morning all the Marines we'd. wake up [laughter] and we s we'd sing. this kid awake with off we go into the. wild blue. >> Oh [laughter] [ __ ]. >> We made his life although he he grew to. love us, you know. It was all in good fun, but. >> pretty funny. >> Well, on that note, before we get into.

the thick of it, let's take a quick. break, >> okay? >> And then when we come back, we'll get. into your first firefights. Most gear looks good until you actually. start using it. Then you find out pretty. quickly what holds up and what doesn't. That's why I keep coming back. to ROA. These aren't just lifestyle. sunglasses pretending to be performance. gear. I've worn mine training, on the. range, traveling, and outdoors for long.

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yourself at roka.com and use code SRS. for 20% off sitewide at checkout. That's. roa.com. and use code SRS. All right, Johnny, we're back from the. break. We're getting in getting ready to. get into. Vietnam. Where do we go from here? Uh. well, [clears throat] I got to uh Troy. Bridge and uh uh Troy Bridge uh really.

the story about Troy Bridge that I wrote. in Guns Up is it's about Big Red. I it's. it wrote I put it in here because Big. Big Red. Um [clears throat] I uh when I. first got there, you know, when we we. got the fooai right before we went up to. to around way, uh. there was one guy in this big tent where. we came into and uh he was coming back. from the hospital. He'd been wounded.

coming back from NAS. And so Chan and I, you know, we we wanted to pump this guy. cuz tell us what we're walking into. here. And he his name was uh Richard. Weaver, but I never knew his real name. I didn't know his real name till 30. years after the war. No [ __ ] No. And. nobody had a name, you know. I I And I. was I've always been awful with names, but uh it's like everybody had a. nickname, >> you know. I I mean, I'm sure a lot of. the guys they knew me as that that crazy.

gunner, but but you know, I didn't think. u but I didn't think I had a name. sometimes. Um, but he was just big red. He was just big redheaded guy and he was. goodlooking, you know, uh, looked like. the marble man, you know, in the old. marble cigarette commercials. And, uh, and big, just big and strong. He he had. been a bouncer in one of the toughest. bars in Cincinnati, Ohio when he was 15. >> When he was 15.

>> That's what Yeah. I found all this out. way, way later. Could you imagine. getting bounced out of a bar by a. 15-year-old? >> Think about Well, listen the rest of. this. He was raised uh his bad. upbringing, you know, I I think his. parents basically I don't know the full. story, but he didn't grow up with his. parents. They kind of abandoned him. >> Gotcha. >> And uh and I don't want to hurt. anybody's feelings that might hear this, but I you know, that's just the story I. got, but he didn't really grow up with. his folks that much. And I think there. were reasons not maybe not their fault.

at all. Kind of like my mom. My mom had. to give up the kids, you know, we didn't. she didn't have any food to feed them. Uh so anyway, he grew up with this old. guy who an old Marine who had served. under Admiral Hollyy in World War II and. uh raised he raised Big Red, you know, like as a Marine from birth. I mean, from from the time he was a little kid, he was holy brought him up a marine. And. uh anyway, >> how did they get connected? I mean, how.

did they how do they run into each. other? Do you know? >> He I don't know. I mean, >> that's interesting. >> I don't know. But he he uh he he read he. became my big brother and Chance, too. Uh cuz, you know, we're we're boots, you. know. I mean, you got two new boots. walking in. We don't know what we're. walking into. And uh and first time we. met him, you know, he we he says trying. to get us ready for this. He goes, "Uh, okay. Uh, at first he didn't want to be.

bothered. Then we go, "Come, come on, man." You know, and then he found out we. were 0331s, machine gunners, and he. goes, "That perked him up." He goes, "Oh, boy. They're going to be glad to. see you, man." And, you know, we've been. told that 7 to 10 second crap, you know, and we didn't believe it. Uh and he he. said uh you know there's uh there's. probably uh I didn't see I don't know of. any any gunners left when I got wounded. in way. I don't think there's any.

machine gunners left. Said they were. giving the M60 to mortman and you know. bringing up guys whoever and handing. them the gun and saying uh you're the. gunner today [laughter] and nobody liked. it because it was like a target on your. back. But and and let me explain that. real quick. You know, we're fighting. that war at night all the time. And. the M60 has a tracer round. Every fifth. round's a tracer round. Well, [clears throat] it looks like a laser. beam. Of course, I know you know that,

but I don't know who's listening to. this. But it it looks like a laser beam. So, you see it in all the movies and you. see the lasers. Well, that's a whole. bunch of bullets with a tracer round is. every fifth round. And and so we we had. to have that to point out the enemy. We. had to have that to know where you're. shooting. Uh we used it for calling in. air strikes, you know, with pointers, you know, and uh and forgive me. >> So for those those that don't understand. what he's saying, a tracer round is is. basically it it it it for America it's.

red. Was it red back then? >> NBA were green. >> Yeah. So, it's a round that kind of. burns red as it's going out of the out. of the barrel. And what people will do. is exactly what Johnny's saying. They. will mark. So, if a if a airplane, helicopter, somebody's going to drop. some ordinance close to your position, you mark enemy territory where you want. them to hit with tracer rounds. Right.

>> And so, they see where the tracer rounds. are going and then they know exactly. what they need to hit. >> Yeah. And and we used it, you know, when. you're calling them phantoms. I mean, there were a few times we had to. phantoms had to drop napom like really. close to us. And uh if I didn't show. them where to drop that, we could be. frying like eggs, you know. So, but you. >> a lot of guys still carry I mean, even. even though we had lasers when I was in, I used to carry an extra mag of all. tracers. I mean Oh. >> In that way, if whatever if the laser.

didn't if if the laser went down or. whatever, then I could throw in a mag of. tracer and mark target. Yeah. >> When I wasn't carrying my 60. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> But well, [clears throat]. so I uh Yeah. So anyway, Big Red. Oh, >> sorry. Go ahead. I was just going to say. use Tracers for a lot of things. I mean, yeah, I remember too. They probably. don't do this [ __ ] anymore either. But. uh you know, for a dummy like me, I'd. put the last five rounds of my magazine. as Tracer because when you hit that, >> you know, hey, I'm getting ready to run.

out of ammo here. Start thinking about a. mag change. That's a smart move. I Yeah, I know. No, I. >> I I never did that. And And our uh. [clears throat] our rifleman see only. the gunner had the tracers. Only the M6. >> Oh, no [ __ ]. >> Yeah. None of none of the uh M16s, you. know, they didn't have tracers. >> Gotcha. >> So, it was all up to me. It was all up. to the machine gun. So, uh, but anyway, so Big Red's, uh, telling us that, you. know, every because of that tracer round. because it points out who, you know,

there's the machine gun and you'd only. see the the M16s and AK-47s going off. like muzzle flashes. It looked like a. bunch of lightning bugs in a big. shootout. And the only steady target you. saw was the uh NBA 30 cows. You know, they'd they'd shoot u green tracers. So. it was like Christmas time out there, you know, green and red criss-crossing. each other and and we were the only. targets and and every good army's taught. the same thing. Knock out the knock out.

the machine gun first back then anyway. I assume it's the same. Uh so anyway, machine gunners didn't last long if you. laid on the trigger very long. Uh that's. why it was seven to 10 seconds. If you. laid on that trigger very long, it was. 20 round burst. We were told unless. you're being overrun, unless there's no. choice, 20 round burst, don't don't be. laying on a 100 rounds, you won't you'll. never finish that 100 rounds cuz some. rifleman's going to pinpoint where your.

machine gun is and out out of the jungle. and you're dead. Well, that's that's the. reason you became such an obvious target. in a in a battle where everybody else is. a lightning bug flashing on and off that. um gunners didn't last long. And um but. you got no choice. You got to you got to. use the tracers. It it's crucial. And it. shows the uh shows the infantry where. where to fire, you know, where's the. enemy, etc. It shows you where your. rounds going. You know, shooting without. tracer rounds, you don't know all your.

rounds could be running into a tree. I. mean, it's really interesting because. the M60 machine gun wasn't just a. weapon. It was also a communication. device. >> Yeah. you know, because you it just like. all the stuff we were just talking. about, you know what I mean? And then. you're marking targets for your own. guys. I mean, you really got to be. switched on. >> Well, some gunners I I don't remember. doing this, but I know I know some. gunners and uh they would talk to each. other, you know, you'd be mountains.

apart and sing. >> Yeah. it just, you know, five round. burst, five round burst, you know, and. and they talk to each other to kind of. let each other know where they were out. in out in the uh, you know, the big. mountains and with in like, you know, Thong Duck and places like that. Uh, you. know, when you get near the Cambodian. border and everything, you know, we're. talking big freaking mountains, you. know, it wasn't it wasn't flat jungle. It was straight up, straight down. And.

uh so you can't see each other. You. don't know where the other platoon might. be. And uh but it but old Red tried to. tell us [clears throat] that no that. that wasn't bull crap. You know, uh 7 to. 10 seconds is about right. And uh if you. lay on that trigger more than 20 round. burst, yeah, you're going to be you're. going to be dead. And uh he said, as a. matter of fact, there's as far as he. knew, there were no gunners left in the. fifth Marines. They had all been killed.

and wounded and. >> I mean what's that like for you to hear. that [ __ ] Well, >> you're brand new. That's. >> hadn't fired around yet and this is this. is your welcome brief. >> It's real now, you know? I mean, all of. a sudden, you know, where it was a big. adventure and I'm not all that scared. I'm just kind of excited. It dawns on you, man. Uh yeah, I might. not be alive next week. You know, this. this is going to this could end badly, but uh yeah, you got no choice. You. know, you're there. you got no choice,

you got to do it. And uh uh so that woke. me and Chan up, but but he was great. about everything. Big Red was he was. like a big brother. I mean, he was like, you know, bend those pins on your frags, you know. We're we're right off the. plane from Daang, you know, and they've. given us all this equipment. We got. grenades where the pins aren't even bent. and we got and and we had at that moment. we had M16s. and uh you know he's telling us what to. do with the M16s you know uh you know we.

had 20 rounds in each clip. Well, you. know, you only want 18 in cuz the old. M16s the it would it would weaken and uh. I mean the the magazine would weaken if. you kept it filled with 20 round mags. all the time and it's going to jam. because as a spring gets weak, it's not. going to feed the bullet. You know that. >> I I hate to talk to you about this stuff. because I know. >> Yeah. >> equipment has changed over the years, too. So, >> yeah. Well, [laughter] true. Yeah. No. kidding. But anyway, yeah, you you had. to you had to take knock a couple of.

rounds. So, he took our magazines, took. two rounds out out of every uh I mean, out of every magazine and then uh uh. threw it back at us. And then he told us. about uh taking all your uh anything you. of value that you're going to try to. hang on to that's paper, you know, you. know, every anything IDs, your MPC, your. military payment certificate, your. money, anything you got that you want to. try to keep dry. And of course I had my. old Gideon Bible and I wanted to keep it. dry. And uh you get hold of plastic.

bags. There were a lot of them around. You get them from the corman a lot of. times. And so you'd wrap everything in. plastic and uh and you know and now like. my little Bible I it was wrapped in. plastic. So it was real thick but it was. in my pocket and it was I had a flack. jacket on you know and uh but we had the. old Korean era flack jackets. So, you. know, they're panels. Bullets could go. between the panels. You know, shrapnel. could go between the panels. But, yeah,

we had Korean era flax shackets. Now, the army got the nice new ones. And of. course, it was every Marine's duty to. steal anything from the army. So, we. were always trying to steal from the. army. If we went into Fuvi, as soon as. the army heard those Marines are coming. in [laughter]. in and out of the jungle from that, they. try to hide all their equipment cuz we. were going to steal. We stole. everything. But they had all the good. stuff, you know, like our our our M79. guy, our our blooper man. Uh the army.

had these blooper rounds that are. nothing today. I mean, I know they got. everything today, but back then the. blooper round was still it was pretty. new. All we had was the concussion. little grenade uh. >> golden eggs. >> Yeah. and and but the army had they had. the buckshot blooper rounds and they. they had blooper rounds that would be. like a flare and uh I forgot what else. they had but uh so our blooper man who. was insane I called him Sam the blooper. man in Guns Up and he's he's a big.

favorite of all the fans of that book. but uh Sam was Sam was uh he was he was. a character he was a total character but. god he was good with that. >> M79 No. >> Real quick, I'm just curious. Would you. read your Bible out there or was it with. you to. >> say that again? >> Did you read your Bible out there? Would. you unwrap it and read it? >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I, you know, Yeah. I started reading it a lot. And.

Chan, I had Chan there with me, you. know, and Chan started uh, like I said, he had a minor in ministry. So I had I had a Bible teacher with me, you know, and you'd ask and that's. that's why he played such a crucial role. and that's why he's a main character in. in Guns Up. >> It's that's interesting, too, that he. came from China as a Christian. >> Yeah, I know. It's fascinating. I know. And and the fact that he he should have. been an officer, he should have been a. doctor. And uh and his story, you know,

at the end, I mean, you know, he got. blown up with me. He got shot up pretty. good, too. and he uh he had to have like. 17 surgeries on his arm and so he. couldn't tie surgical knots. So uh so at. the uh you know he and he went through a. serious depression for a while. He came. home and the girl he thought he was. going to marry that kind of ended. day. that had that had gone away while he was. in NOM I think and uh and I don't know. all the details but uh that and and now.

his dream of being an open heart surgeon. that was gone but uh Chan went on to. become the leading cardiovascular. profusion expert in the world. >> Are you serious? >> Yeah. A dumb machine gunner. Yeah. I. know. And I had to go through a war with. this guy and his giant vocabulary. >> [laughter]. >> He was maddening. Jay would It was. pretty funny, you know. I mean, he would.

do things he cuz he was so smart. He. knew [laughter] and I was I barely got. out of St. Pete High, you know. And. still we'd be I'd be eating C-rations. and he'd go, you know, Clark, those. C-rations, uh, they were put in that can. when you weren't even a glint in your. father's eye. [laughter]. And I'd go, "What?" And I'd look at the. date to try to find the date. God, you. know, 1943, [laughter]. >> man. Damn.

>> Yeah, I know. Anyway, he was he could be. a pain in the butt, but uh you know, we're still together. Yeah. Yeah. We're. still together. He came to see me in. Florida not long ago. His wife had. recently died. And yeah, I came down. I. took him out on my pontoon boat and. drank some wine and nice. You guys are. still buddies. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Where's he at? >> He's in uh New York in um uh O uh Oyster. Bay, New New York.

>> Right on. >> Yeah. >> Right on. >> He's got a place on Nantucket that uh. we've been to once and uh so. >> nice. >> Yeah, it's pretty sweet. >> So, where do you guys go from here? Uh oh. >> Vietnam. Oh. [cough and clears throat]. Well, uh, in Vietnam, we went we, uh, let me take a Troy Bridge. It got. overrun. Uh, >> hold on. What was Troy Bridge?

>> Okay. >> Why was it so important? What were you. doing there? >> You know, later you look at there's. pictures in that book and there's. pictures of Troy Bridge. As a matter of. fact, show you real quick. Oh, well, it. doesn't show the bridge here, but that's. me on Troy Bridge. And look at that. >> Yeah. >> Marine Corping picture right there. >> The Troy Bridge was it was like an old.

uh I think it had originally been an old. uh train trestle bridge, you know, but. it was on Highway One and uh it had uh. like I said, this part of the story. really in Guns. This is about Big Red. Big Red was a hero on Troy Bridge. Uh, you know, I I didn't do much. I didn't. do, you know, >> what were we what what was why were we. there? What did we want? >> Okay, we It was on Highway One, which is. the most important route in Vietnam. All. of our supplies went up and down Highway.

One. So, uh, uh, the NBA, Vietong, they're always trying to do something to. stop Highway One. >> and blow up the bridges along Highway. One was a big deal. And so, uh, bridge. duty though was a good deal for Marines. cuz it meant you weren't out in the. bush. You got to come in, you know, when. when you're on bridge duty, there'. usually be [clears throat] a little vill. there. You you might even be able to eat. some something besides sea rations, but. uh, and I did that a couple of times, but you know, there was always critters.

going through your rice. You'd be eating. they burrow through your rice and you. you close your eyes and keep eating. [laughter]. But, uh, yeah. So anyway, it was uh it. was an important bridge. Uh it got hit. with they said over 400 uh 400 NVA and. they uh. sappers finally uh you know got on onto. the bridge and uh suicide guys. They had. uh all kinds of satchel charges tied to.

them and TNT tied to them and they were. all doped up. You know, you you'd shoot. them and they didn't even know they were. dead. They kept coming sometimes and uh. but they uh yeah they got out to the. center of the bridge and you know they. had to break through the wire on the. other side, killed the machine gun team. on the other side, but got it got under. the bridge, hugged onto it and the. bridge blew up and came down on top of. another machine gun team that was um on. the uh center span big cement thing in. the river that held up the center of the.

bridge. And uh anyway, those guys didn't. die right away. And uh during the. battle, during this whole thing, Red. didn't stop firing the whole time. I. mean, he he he just he just fired I. don't know how many rounds, you know, just and that was that meant everybody. knew where he was and everybody tried to. knock out Red in that that gun bunker. Uh but Red was Red was a hero. He should. have gotten crap, you know.

He could have he could have been put up. for the Medal of Honor there, but he. didn't get anything. [laughter]. Zippity-d uh 30 years later when people. read what he did in my book in Guns Up, uh a congressman and a a a good friend, a couple of good friends of his that. went to to high school with him, uh. caused a stir and they finally gave him. the Bronze Star. You know, he'd been dead for 30 years.

He was killed beside me on May 20th, '. 68. But uh but anyway, Red was a hero. and he what he did that night was. amazing. And a couple other guys were. heroes that night. Uh we had two guys. that Tedesco and Rosalie, both. corporals. And Rosalie had been put up. uh in way city. He had been put up for. um promotion to lieutenant, that. battlefield commission. And he he turned. it down. He wanted to go home. And so he. turned it down. and they came out to say.

goodbye to the platoon. So they they. they hopped a ride from Fubai, which is. between Wei City, Fubai and Troy Bridge. They hopped a ride from Fubai, which is. a great big army base. Uh and that's. where the fifth Marines were too when. whenever we went back, but we never went. back. But uh they they hopped a ride. down Highway One to come out to Fubai, I. mean come out to Troy Bridge and say bye. to everybody. Well, they were there that. they picked that time to say bye to. everybody and the bridge got overrun,

blown up. Machine gun team was out there. screaming. They hadn't died yet and they. were uh in a lot of agony and Tedesco. and Rosalie tried to get out to those. guys and got killed and they should have. been on a they were due for a flight. back to the world the next day. They. should have been in Daang. They came out. there to say bye. Uh and they died. heroes. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't get. anything either as far as I know. Yeah, but um yes, a lot of lot of brave guys. >> What did you see there? I mean, this is.

your first. >> I I was just a an a gunner just, you. know, just feeding the gun. I didn't do. anything. I didn't do anything. Uh. >> still significant. I mean, never combat. the gun life. I I saw more later uh. after the bridge had been blown up. Uh. uh the next next day uh we started. sending out uh threeman killer teams. So. I I volunteered for these threeman. killer teams. Uh and uh those those were.

pretty fascinating. These threeman. killer teams. They um. the uh I keep wanting to call them, you. know, we called them gooks. All right. We called them gooks. And uh. >> I think everybody knows that. >> Okay. >> Anybody that's watched any Vietnam movie. ever? >> Well, it it came from Korea, if you know. that term. You probably already know. that, but yeah, it was it was Kore. Marines in Korea picked that term up and. that's what the Koreans called peasants.

And so they we we picked that term up. and the Koreans brought it to Vietnam. and they were gooks. But anyway, so um. the NBA would send out killer squads. They'd send out a squad of guys to go. into a vill and and if the vill wasn't. supplying the communist with rice and. supplies, they'd find out who the v village chief. was and his family and they would come. into that vill and they'd get the like.

let's say he had a couple of kids. They. get one one of his kids, cut off their. head, put it on a bamboo steak in front. of the right in the center of the vill. and and then leave and that was their. either start supplying uh the commies or. you know we'll be back and they would. they'd come back and they excuse me they. they'd kill a member of his family and. finally him or his wife or whoever and. uh until that village started supplying. them with rice and whatever they needed.

Well, uh, our job on these threeman. killer teams was to, uh, cuz if you went. out there with a platoon, you you couldn't get them, you know, they would they you made too much noise, you know, >> uh, jungle and rice patties and you you. had to be quiet and uh, so I would go. out on these three-man killer teams. >> and that's before I started carrying the. 60. So I didn't carry I mean I was just. an A gunner. I didn't carry the 60 until. red got killed. >> Gotcha. Uh once in a while it would, but.

a lot of times I didn't carry it till. Red got killed. Uh unless he'd be gone. for this or that, you know, and then I. was the 60 guy. But uh so these threeman. killer teams, you'd ambush these guys. You you try to pick them off when they. came into a vill. And uh one of these uh. one of these things, I mean, we were. successful a couple of times. And uh but. one of these one of these three-man. killer teams I was on, I was out there. with this uh this funny black guy. I got.

him I called him Jackson in the book, but I didn't remember his real name, but. he was uh he always smiled and he was. big white teeth boy. He smiled. We don't. smile out in the bush. You'll get us all. killed. So we were we were laying in. wait and uh right at the edge of a it. wasn't really a rice patty. There were. rice patties out there, but this was. kind of just uh a lot of brush. And then. there was real heavy jungle over maybe. 75 yards away. And we were behind a big.

bush and uh and we see a some guys come. out of the jungle, just two or three of. them. We thought the killer team. So, uh. we get we set up, you know, we're going. to we're going to blow these guys away. And halfway across this open area, uh, a platoon comes out. These guys are just. a point two or three guys. They were. just point men. And pretty soon they're. getting closer and closer and we're.

going, I don't know if we should open. fire on a whole platoon, you know, only. three of us. And uh, so pretty soon it's. not a platoon. It was two over 200 NVA. came out and they walked so close to us. They walked I mean they could have. stepped on us because we couldn't do. anything. We couldn't run. We couldn't. move. We just had to stay still and. we're getting eat up by ants and. mosquitoes. You know the mosquitoes and.

would go the worst. But we're just. getting sucked dry with mosquitoes and. getting eaten up and you can't move. And. and I tell that story sometimes to other. Marines to tell them this is why Paris. Island was so horrible. The all the. stories of a Marine slapping a sand flea. on PI back when I went in. If you did. that, you were going to be tortured. I. mean I mean they tortured guys. They. they'd make you dig a six-foot grave. with an etool. Then they'd make you have. a official burial for the sand flea. And.

then they they'd say, "What sex was that. San Flea you killed?" And you'd say it. was a guy. All right, this is a female. Dig another B. Dig another grave. I. mean, they were they torture you, but. you were scared to death. >> to to move, you know, like I was scared. to death to even look. >> It worked. >> They had my attention. And uh but it. worked. I got to numb them, you know. I. had discipline and all of us did. We we.

laid there. It wouldn't matter. I had. snakes crawling over me. I wasn't going. to move. If you moved, you're going to. get everybody killed. So, you know, you. just didn't make that mistake. We were. well trained. It was torture, torture. training, but it worked. And uh this. night, 200 NVA went plotting by our. noses. I mean, we could smell the. garlic. I saw their little Hochi men's. That's these sandals they wore. They. made them out of tires, American tires. But they uh they'd walk by their little.

hochi men's flopping right by our nose. and we're just going it it was never. going to end. 200 guys and they're kind. of spread out. It it went on forever. I. mean it felt like forever when they. finally got away from us. [laughter]. One I had uh no wasn't me one of the the. guy one of the guys. There was three of. us. I don't know which one it was but. somebody had pulled a a frag. He pulled. the pen on the Frank thinking, you know, that we got to do something to get out.

of here. And squeezed it that whole. time, the spoon in, squeezed it, and he was so. relieved when these guys went into the. jungle. He went, "Oh god." And let go of. it. He let go of the spoon. And now we. got a live frag. And he goes, "Frag.". And we all dive flatten out. Boom. The. grenade goes off right by us. Nobody got. hurt. We didn't we didn't catch any. shrapnel or anything. And now we're. scared to death. You know, he's get you. And another guy then Jackson says, "Oh,

I peed my pants. I peed all over. myself." [laughter]. >> We're going and and I did, too. I was. peeing. I'm going, "Oh my god, we're the. worst ambush in history." [laughter]. So, we got out of there. But that's what. threeman killer teams could be like. You. didn't know what you were going to run. into. I mean, you think they didn't come. back for you guys, >> huh? They didn't come back for you guys. >> Oh, no. Because uh soon we heard. artillery going off out of Fubai. Now, I.

don't know if somebody else spotted all. these guys and they may have. But. somebody started calling in artillery. It wasn't us. I mean, I if I called in. artillery, I'd killed the wrong team. I. couldn't call in artillery. [laughter]. You wouldn't want me to. I didn't even. have a sense of direction. I If I'd ever. walked point, we'd still be there. So, what were some of the success stories. with the threeman killer teams? >> Oh, well, there were uh there were times where, you know, they'd only send in a squad.

and uh uh you would uh yeah, we had a. couple of times where you, you know, we. killed three or four of them and the. rest would get away. But what would. happen that they'd stop going back to. the vil because they, you know, they'd. leave the villa alone. And now you were. heroes to the village and now they're. they're on the Allied side. I mean, they're on the American side again. You. know, it's uh Yeah. It's. Yeah. >> Do you want to talk about the first time. he killed somebody?

>> Uh yeah. Yeah. Uh. I I want to I'll talk I want to talk. about uh uh. yeah it was an ambush and um uh I I I I. killed this uh NBA officer and uh. I guess you know it stays with me. Yeah. [clears throat] You know the shooting. was at night. I I killed him at night. die. Uh but we stayed in that position.

all night and we stayed there longer. than we usually would. Uh we were we'd. count the bodies, you know, and stuff. like that. And uh so I don't know why. we'd stay there. Nobody told me I was a. PFC, but we [laughter] we hung around a. little longer. And and so I had time to, you know, go up on the trail where I'd. killed this guy and uh you know, and and. and look at him. And uh I it it's it's. just always stayed with me. Yeah. I mean.

I remember a smell. It was a hot sunny. day, but it wasn't, you know, wasn't. 110° hot, but it was hot and sunny and. it was grass. It was like tall grass. It. was blowing because there'd be some. breeze. And here's this guy laying on. this trail with, you know, a breeze. going by. And uh. yeah, I. yeah, I think of I I think of that a.

lot. Think of that and I think of this. uh this this woman uh I guess she was an. NVA nurse, but I we never I never knew, but uh there's a chapter in the book. about that. It was called Mercy Killing. Uh and that was uh that one really stays. with me. I. and then I was in a I was in a little. bit of handtohand combat and um. I I I I'll tell you want me to tell you.

I'm going to tell you that one cuz uh. it's really unusual. Not everybody has. this war story. Uh we'd been going for. about I I just I if I if I remember. correctly, it had been about 17 straight. days. and you'd be out that long often, but you didn't make contact with the. enemy all the time, you know. Uh, but. this time we'd made contact with the NVA. off and on for 17 days. We kept running.

into them, you know, I mean, it would. short ambushes, big firefights, and it's over. But then. the next day, bam, you're running into. them again. And we were in a real hot. area. It was uh it was up near the. Cambodian border, if I remember ocean. border. But uh we were in the mountains. at that point. or at one point we starting to flat land. be in the mountains. I never knew what. was going on. But I I was going around. humping all night and we'd been going. for uh 17 days and hadn't had hardly any.

sleep. You you'd set up an ambush. I. mean you watch you'd hump all day, you. know, stop maybe for some cow, but you. were just humping up and down hills all. day. That's how I lost 40 lbs. the first. time I got hit, but you just hump all. day and uh and then at night set up. ambushes all night. So, we set up this. am uh this 17th day uh of contact with. the enemy. Uh we're going around the.

side of a mountain and it wasn't much of. a trail, but a tiny somewhat of a trail. around the side of this mountain. And it. was way up in the mountains and uh our. lieutenant was as dead as we were. And. we had a great lieutenant. He didn't. make mistakes. He call in artillery on a. dime, you know, uh, you know, Annapolis. grad, smart guy. His name, he went on. to, his name was Nelson, Lieutenant. Nelson. He went on to become the head of. the FBI in, uh, all of the Northeast. after the war.

>> Wow. >> Yeah. He was he was a hero at that Ruby. Ridge thing. He was one of the FBI guys. at that at Ruby Ridge. I think it was. called Ruby Ridge. >> Anyway, but he was a great lieutenant. We were blessed to have that guy. But he. um even he was, you know, we didn't know. you were sleepwalking. You reach a point. where you, you know, you're just. sleepwalking. I got nothing left. Nobody. did. So, we sat up on the side of this. mountain and he put a couple of guys uh. above this tiny trail and I should have.

been ambushing the trail. They should. have had the 60 on the trail, aiming. down the trail one way or the other. And. we always did. This night I I believe. everybody was just so exhausted. We. don't know what we're doing. And they. set me up on the bottom half of this. trail pointing downhill. Well, I mean. it's possible maybe he maybe had a. reason to think they were going to come. up the hill at us, but um normally I'd. be ambushing that trail.

So I me and Chan are. trying to stay awake and we're I got. poncho over the mosquitoes are eating us. alive and so you couldn't use that. poncho you know any kind of rain or. anything because it makes noise but. wasn't raining trying to heat trying to. fight off the mosquitoes and I'm hanging. over the 60 and I got it here. So if I. if I fall forward to sleep it it wakes. me up. I hit it and uh it was Chan's. turn to you know take an hour sleep. Sometimes we do two hour shifts. So, u.

but I think here we were only doing one. hour because couldn't stay awake more. than an hour, you know, and uh but. anyway, Chance, it's his turn to sleep. and and I'm hanging over this thing and. uh and I'm fading out, you know, I'm I'm. going out and believe me, you didn't do. that. We were scared to death to fall. asleep on lines. We had an Indian named. Swift Eagle. It's his real name. He's a. funny story, too. Uh, his real name was. Swift Eagle. I had to see it on his.

paycheck to believe it. I think he had. another name too, but Swift Eagle. So, Swift Eagle, he'd been in um, I don't. know, couple of tours, maybe more. And. he would sneak around and if anybody. fell asleep on lines, this freaking. Indian would sneak up and he'd take a. KBAR and and he'd reach around behind. you and nick you, just nick you with a. KBAR. Well, in NOM that Nick's going to. get infected within a few hours. Everything got infected in Vietnam. So,

you learned real quick, don't fall. asleep. You know, I don't care how tired. you are. So, I was scared to fall. asleep. He had already nicked me once. and I I almost shot him. I thought it. was I I didn't know who it was. Uh but. anyway, that guy was a hero. He He got. hit seven times. >> Jeez. >> Yeah. And he kept he would return down. to Purple Hearts because he didn't want. to go home. The the Marines were in NAM. The Marines were his family. Why would I. want to go anywhere else? My family's. here. He would say stuff like that. I.

mean, how do you not love these guys? >> So, I wasn't going to fall asleep if I. could help it cuz Swift Eagle would make. sure I woke up. But this night, I'm. dozing and I'm dreaming and I'm dreaming. back home. You know, we call them world. dreams. You're back in the world. And. I'm back in the world. I'm cruising. Steak and Shake and I'm I've got I've. got my 57 vet [laughter] and I'm. cruising around Steak and Shake and I'm.

trying to pick up girls and I'm just I'm. having a great time in my dream. You. know, it's you're out of now. [laughter]. And my favorite band, this true story, favorite band was the Young Rascals. I. love the Young Rascals. Well, all of a sudden in the middle of. freaking Cambodian mountains, lay ocean. mountains, wherever the heck I was, I. start hearing the young rascal singing. in the midnight hour. And I'm thinking, "Oh my god, this is.

the best dream I've had since I came to. N. [laughter]. I'm even hearing the m the music." And I. mean, that's the way my mind was, you. know, get it. That's where my mind was, man. And uh and then bam bam. and it wasn't M16 rounds, it was M14. rounds and they're slapping through my. poncho and the plastic poncho, the old. we had Korean era ponchos, okay? They're.

plastic stuff. They would rip through. that and it was cutting my face from the. rounds. Not the bullets, but the plastic. was cutting my face. Bam. Bam. It's. going through my poncho. Of course, I was frozen, but I was. awake. And I'm still hearing the music. I'm still hearing the Young Rascals in. the midnight hour. And all of a sudden, there's there's a guy on top of me. And. uh it it was an NVA. And I too late to. get to the machine gun, too late to get.

to the 45. I got to the KBAR. I I got to. my KBAR and uh and we rolled down the. hill and and uh. Yeah. So, so later on I found out I. found out that we found the body, of. course, and uh he had a boom box. This. guy had a big shiny boom box. And what. the uh the North Vietnamese loved. American music, too. [laughter] And they.

would they would tune in to Armed Forces. Radio Network. Well, every night at. midnight, Armed Forces Radio Network. played in the midnight hour by the Young. Rascals. Of course, I knew none of this. I had I hadn't heard music since I left. America, but uh and we sure didn't. listen to Armed Forces Radio Network, but they did. He had a boom box. He'd. been listening to Armed Forces Radio. Network, and evidently it had caught on. a twig going through the bush and turned. on his boom box. Holy. >> Well, above him was this kid named.

Alabama. Uh, actually it's really we. called him Sugar Bear, but he was from. Alabama. Sugar Bear was the lieutenant. made sure one guy in in every squad or. so had an M14 cuz we the M16s were crap. They were plastic. We called them Matty. Mattels. They would jam in the heat and. the rice patties and uh you know it. there have been there were episodes like. Liberty Bridge. I I had heard the numbers. If I'm wrong,

forgive me, but I' been I was told 48. Marines died there and mostly because. all their M16s or Matty Mattels jammed. and they ended up using them just as. clubs just, you know, hand to hand. But. uh but anyway, so we didn't trust that. Matty Mattel. It was plastic. You know, we trained through all our training with. an M14 and at the last minute they throw. us these little plastic guns and say, "Go to Vietnam with this." So, one guy would carry an M14 in case these. M16s jammed. Well, you know the sound.

You know, you can tell the sound and you. you know more about guns than I do. And. so, we could hear that I knew it was an. M14 firing through my poncho. And uh. sure enough, it was Sugar Bear was the. only one who woke up quickly and as. these guys went down through this trail. beneath him and he had shot the guy, but. he wasn't dead. and he and he rolled. down the hill on top of me and and then. it was me and him and uh and so flash.

forward about 10 years ago, I go to a. big party in St. Pete given by a doctor. and he would he was he was wealthy and. and he would have these big huge parties. once a year and he would hire old rock. and roll bands. He hired the Young. Rascals, Felix Cavaleri and the Young. Rascals to this party. I ended up. meeting Felix Cavaleri. And I I started.

I told him this story. Yeah. I I knifed. a guy to your [laughter] to your song in. the midnight hour. And he goes, "Oh, oh. God." He goes, "I gotta hear this. story." So we spent we spent the night. me telling him this whole story. Uh but. it was his favorite story about that. song from that point on and we we became. kind of friends but uh it's a true story. in the midnight hour. So to this day. >> every time I hear that song I mean I you.

know I'm I'm back in nom man. My mind is. back in nom. I'm an old man but it some. things just don't change. >> Wow. >> Can I ask a question? Yeah. >> Why does the officer bother you? >> Why does the what bother you? >> The officer. >> The officer? Oh, no. I I lieutenant. Did you say. >> my lieutenant? Oh, I like that guy. >> No, I'm not talking about him. The.

officer that you killed. that you went to go see in the grass. Forgive me. I I've lost I'm I'm not. sure. Tell Tell me again. Let me We had. just spoken about it and I had asked if. you want to talk about the first time. you had to kill somebody. >> Oh, and you had brought up an officer. >> Yeah, he was uh I don't know. I guess I. remembered. I remembered it was it was.

an officer. You know, we didn't we. didn't you weren't killing officers. every day, you know. Usually they were. just peeons like me. And uh yeah, I. think I think cuz I stayed around the. body so long, you know. I I I. think cuz I had to stay around that body. longer than normal. And uh yeah, it uh. >> Okay. >> I think that's why I don't, you know, I. don't know. May maybe just cuz it was. the first time I saw I mean I had been.

in firefights but you don't you know you. go out you find some dead bodies you. don't know if you got them. I mean it uh. >> this one I knew and uh. >> hit different. >> Yeah it's different. It's different. We had a some crazy episodes. I I shot a. girl up uh that uh um. once again we just had a it was about 20. guys about 20 Marines and I don't know I.

don't know what we were doing that but. we were walking way up in the mountains. and uh and the word's coming back that. we're near the Ho Chi Men Trail. Well, you know, I'm hoping the rest of. the battalion's out there somewhere. because 20 guys, you know, there's a lot. of a lot of goss on the Ho Chi Min. Trail. And uh uh so, but we uh we we. came across we're going up the steep. hill and we came across this u this guy. who'd been left behind, an NBA soldier.

Well, the guy they ran into him up at. the front of the line first. First first. our pointman comes across him and you. know buttstrokes the guy and kicks him. back and now all the way down the hill. Marines are kicking this guy back down. the hill and and he comes to me. He's. like so uh I didn't hit him. He was. already a mess. But uh we um he had been. left behind. He wasn't you been wounded. his foot was all infected and I don't. know if it was from a wound or what the.

jungle you know and they had left this. guy behind but we knew they were going. to come back for him. So we uh you know. we set up an ambush and it was I mean I. remember this honestly you know if I was. a good painter I could paint this but it. was all it was steep hills and then. there was a little flat area and a. little mountain a stream going through. this little flat grassy area and it's. heavy woods everywhere else but there's.

one little open area and this stream and. the trail went through this and right. along that side beside that stream and. we sat up on a hill beside it. We. [clears throat] got up on this hill, had. an open open fire down on this thing and. I I I sat the gun up looking down on. this this trail waiting for these guys. to come back to get that guy. And uh. sure enough, these old pith helmets, you. know, start diddy bumping out of the out. of the bush and we get them in the open.

and and we we just open fire blew them. away. the, you know, I hit I hit a few. of them with the 60 and uh, you know, 60. does, it'll put a good size hole in. people, you know. I mean, it it made a. mess out of people a lot of times, but a. lot of times, you know, people live. through incredible crap. I know you're. one of your guys was showing me a guy. over there that was shot 20 times or. something and lived. You know, you you. know, you never know. Uh so I after this.

uh during this battle they they they. were like water bugs. I mean really. they're like roaches. They weren't going. to stay around and fight. They never. did. And they're gone into the into the. woods. But one by one they keep coming out of. the woods back into the open to they're. all trying to get to this one guy. It's. true story. I they're trying to get to. this we we realized it was this one this. one [ __ ] laying half in the stream and.

half out that I had hit and they're all. keep trying to get to this guy and every. time they come out in the open, you. know, we'd kill him and uh finally it's. over and uh we we go down to check the. bodies and we kicking them over and we. kick over this one in in the laying in. the stream. half in the stream, half. out, and kick the pith helmet off. And. it's a girl. It's a beautiful girl, a.

beautiful Asian girl, beautiful long. hair, falls out. Uh, and she she's. pretty a pretty girl, you know, and you. know, we haven't seen a girl in a long. time. So, uh, and she's alive. >> She's alive. >> She's alive. and and her eyes pop open. and and she she starts saying all the. well Chan had been sent to because I. told you he's he was brilliant. They. sent Chan to I think it was called S5. school or something like that, S2. school, some some S school to uh learn.

the Vietnamese language so he could help. in uh interpret when we got prisoners. and stuff. So Chan knew a little bit of. Vietnamese now. he had learned enough to. figure out some stuff. And uh so she. keeps saying the same thing, you know, over and over. And so we Jame, what's. she saying, man? And he he goes, "She's. saying Marines. Marines, Marines, you're evil. Marines are.

devils. Marines are devils." Or. something like that. You know, some. something like that. They'd been told. about Marines. And uh. the neat part of the story is. a a after that shootout was done, we're. real close to the Ho Chi Min Trail that. everybody said so. And I already I mean, you don't have to, you know, when you're. in engine country. I mean, nobody has to. tell you this is a real dangerous zone. here. I mean, you'd see you'd see where. they they'd worn down a path where they.

were even pulling uh you know, box carts. full of crap, you know, and uh you know, bicycles loaded down with ammo and you. know, you could tell. And we were in we. were in a place where there are a lot of. NVA uh and we only got 20 Marines, if. that many. [clears throat]. We called in a chopper to come get this. wounded girl. Now, there's huge trees,

this one little open area, you know, where we got him. But all around it's. these giant trees. And here comes this. jolly green that usually would carry. 105s, you know, one of those great big. choppers. Usually you don't use that. for, you know, medevac, but I don't know. if that's all they could get. I don't. know if it's because of where we were, but Jolly Green shows up and starts. lowering the basket to get this girl out. and we rescued this girl and she's.

cursing us and doing every, you know, saying stuff about us the whole time. The corman did what he could to patch. her up. We got her in this basket and. that chopper almost crashed. It's it's. it's hitting the treetops and everything. trying to trying to hover and uh get. this thing out. >> We could hear artillery, you know, you. could hear I mean, we know we're in a. bad zone. I always I think of that and I you know,

you come home and and Americans are. calling you a bunch of baby killers and. this and that and you go, "If only they. knew.". We risked all those Marines to get this. wounded girl out of there. We risk. everybody's life and I know it and I the. guys with me knew it. But and that. chopper pilot those those guys crap. they're hitting tree limbs and stuff. I. mean, they could have gone down at any. time and they they didn't take off and. they got that girl out of there and I.

don't know if she ever lived, but. >> wow, >> we tried. And um but I always remember. that and I always when we talk about. girls in infantry units, I'm real. against girls in infantry units. I I I. won't change. I know I'm old, maybe. that's it, but I'm against that. And uh. I watched that wasn't the only time. I. saw it another time where there was an. NBA nurse with uh and this girl was. probably an MVA nurse, you know. She. didn't even have a weapon, I don't.

think. But uh they we had a. we ran into a bunker and uh we it was an. NVA. We just saw three three gooks go in. this bunker and of course we're open. fire. We we move up on it, start. throwing frags in, and uh. frags are coming back out. They're. throwing them back out before they go. off, you know, and but finally, you. know, we we hold the pin longer, flip it.

in, and uh anyway, we finally there's no. way they could be alive with, you know, and so we sent a guy in to pull out the. bodies, and uh he didn't come back out. All the the the smoke from the grenades, it got him. And so we drag him out. They. send in another guy and he starts. dragging out the bodies. Well, he only. dragged out two bodies. We saw three go. in there and they they. uh eventually we know there's a third.

one in there. We don't know, you know, and we couldn't find it. And uh finally. uh I think it was Corpal uh. Houston. Corporal Houston. He was. another brave guy. tell you I could tell. you a story about him too, but Houston. goes in and there were wood planks. inside this bunker and they had taken it. was a girl and they buried her under the. wood planks so she could survive the. grenades and uh he he found her. He. drags her out. Well, she didn't really.

survive and her skull is cracked open. and uh we we we're in we're in combat. we can't uh we can't get any we can't. get anybody to it's way too late to try. to save her. And so uh and and you can. literally see her brains, you know, from. the concussion, her skulls cracked open. We can see the brains and I mean she no. way she was going to live. And uh that's. why I titled it mercy killing. But it. doesn't matter. You never forget that.

You you never So somebody said uh hey, you know, come on. Put her out of her. misery, man. you know, cuz she's gasping. and everything, you know, but she's. still gasping. And so a guy shot her. with an M16, you know, around her, too. And and we we're ready to walk away. And. uh but we got to search the bodies for. papers. Um so. she didn't die. And then somebody hit me.

and I you know this is where I this is. this is where. like knifing the guy you know some of. this I think my mind tries to protect me. [laughter]. to go here if you. >> Yeah. You know and and so um yeah I. don't I don't I remember somebody hit me. and saying shoot her with a 45 you know. shoot her with a 45. you know, Matty. Mattel's shooter with a 45 and uh and of. course machine gunner. I I carried a 45.

and uh um yeah, so you live with that, you know, you don't I don't forget that. one. And uh 30 years later at the Big. Red memorial thing when when they were. giving him the Bronze Star 30 years late. and all that stuff, a bunch of the guys. showed up and one of the guys was uh uh. Sergeant uh. oh crap. He's in that he's in Guns Up. There's a.

picture of him holding the flag from. Weey City. uh it'll come to me. But. anyway, the sergeant was there and he. pulls out at this reunion. You know, we're we're having a few beers in a. hotel kind of trying to come down from a. pretty emotional time and I I had to. give a speech at Red's high school and. try to tell what he was, who he was. These kids, you know, knew nothing. And. but anyway, so now we're trying to come. down, drink a couple of beers and see if. we can chill. And Stacy Watson, Sergeant.

Stacy Watson. So, Sergeant Stacy Watson goes, he. opens, he had he had a little briefcase. or something with him and he goes, "Do. you remember this gunner?" And he's. got that girl. He had searched he had to. search the bodies that day. He had her. full ID. And I mean, it's a full ID. I. And he made copies of it. I've still got. it. I don't know if that's morbid, but I. do. but with her name, what where she.

was born. I mean, all these details, a. full ID on this this girl that uh that. we we had to kill. And uh. boy, that one. >> wow, >> you know, that one sent me that one sent. me real. And after that, and that's, you. know, I real close to that is when they. uh you know, that they found out I all. my records have been blown up. a 122 Chinese rocket had hit uh Ana.

combat base and uh for those who don't. know 122 is about the size of a. telephone pole. I mean it's a big old. freaking rocket and it it it hit the uh. record shack at law and killed all the. guys in the record shack and blew up all. our records. Well, I. there had been a a shootout in a. graveyard and uh.

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[music]. [music]. Saw this building. What do you think, Sean? >> We're high.

Anyway, uh been a pretty pretty big. shootout in this graveyard. And I do. want to tell you about that because it's. it's another incredible hero. I mean, I. think he was probably the bravest guy I. I knew through the whole war. And I knew. some I knew some guys that you could. make a movie about. I mean, they were. these guys were some of them were like I. mean, Swift Eagle, we had a gunnery, Sergeant Gunnery at McDermott. He'd been.

put up for the Medal of Honor. And I. mean, he and he didn't get it cuz he hit. he punched an army officer and they. knocked it down to a silver star. Anyway, I mean, God, these these guys. were warriors, man. And um I mean way. they all did way more than me. Uh but um. anyway, I uh this this this. graveyard incident uh uh they found out. I'd been put up for the Silver Star. They told me that night, you know, they'd seen something I did and they.

wanted to put me up with the Silver. Star. And I, you know, 30 years passed, war's way over. But I always wondered. about it, you know, wonder if was I ever. was that true, you know, cuz all the. guys came up and told me. And uh so 30. years later, they find out all the. records have been blown up. And so uh. you know, I I I looked up the old. gunnery sergeant. Uh and I didn't know. him. Uh it was gunny gunnery sergeant. Portner, and he was the I knew my my.

company gunny was McDermott, so I. thought it was him who put me up for it, but it wasn't him. But um it was it was. Portner. So I I got a hold of Porter. He. lived in Virginia. And I said, "Daddy, I. don't know if you're going to remember. this." You know, I and I I said, "But I. told him the story." I said, "Do you. remember that the graveyard that night, you know, when the Unundtock got killed. and Sunny got hit 11 times?" I said, "Do. you remember what?" And he goes, "I. remember every every minute of it." I.

And uh I said, "Well, it look the guys. told me you put me up for a sore star.". And she said, "I did." So, well, okay. Well, I never got it, you know, and I I. just always wondered, was it true? It, you know, and I thought it'd end there. But when they found out the records have. been blown up, [clears throat]. and listen how they found out Pat. McDerm, the guy who saw me in. Jacksonville doing the one push-ups and. the back flips to get in the Marine. Corps, he got shot that night in the. graveyard. And uh [laughter].

so he wanted a Purple Heart. He went and. he was still lives in Jacksonville and. he wanted a Purple Heart license tag and. [snorts] because they just come out with. the Purple Heart license tags and he. wanted one and they wouldn't give him. one and he goes and he goes he shows him. the bullet hole. You look and they go, "It's not on your DD214." Well, nothing. was on our DD214s. Crap. I didn't have. anything on my I had good conduct metal. I think I had n you know, nothing. So, uh, so he he he says, "I I I got shot,

you know, and he August 3rd, 68, I can. tell, you know." Well, he started the investigation that found. out that all the records have been blown. up. >> Oh, [ __ ] And because of Pat McDermott. wanting that Purple Heart license tag, [laughter]. he he's the reason I got the Silver. Star, you know, because Mcder I mean. Gunny Portner found out about it and uh. one thing led to another. Gunny Porter. wrote the whole thing up again. Uh uh. other guys. doctorally wrote up a thing about it and.

others did. They're all dead now and but. Portner died two weeks after rewriting. me up for that. And uh so I I got it. But um uh but that that particular night. uh that that bringing back that that. getting the silver star, you know, all. that stuff comes back on you. And uh and. then I go to that's when Big Red, they. gave him the the bronze star.

He deserved a silver star way more than. Johnny Clark. He deserved a freaking. Medal of Honor. Anyway, they they all. that happened and we went to that. reunion and that's when he shows me the. picture of this girl we had to had to. kill and and uh kind of sent me over the. edge. You know, I was. >> Why do you think he showed you that? Oh, we we all been have we had a few. beers and you know and I don't know some. guys handled it better than others and.

and he was his job to search all the. bodies and that that's how he had the. flag that we ra the fifth Marines raised. over the citadel at Way City. Wow. >> He still had it. I got a picture of it. in Guns Up him with the flag. But uh. >> yeah, I don't he didn't mean anything. bad by it. I I don't I'm not mad at him. about it, but it uh yeah, I kind of, you. know, I I was diagnosed with severe. combat fatigue and uh that was it was a. rough ride sometimes. You know, all my. hair fell out in one night and and up to.

that point they had diagnosed it with. mild combat fatigue. [laughter] And then. they I went to the VA and I said, "Hey, did I catch something in Nomad?" All my. hair fell out one night and you know my. wife's screaming and I'm freaking out. and uh I said uh oh you've been. misdiagnosed, you know, severe combat fatigue. [laughter]. So yeah, it was it's been a bumpy ride. at times, you know. It really has. But. uh. >> All your hair fell out in one night. >> Pardon?

>> All of your hair fell out in one night? >> Yeah. >> I've never heard of that. >> Well, it grew back. You know, it was it. was it was a shock. I mean, you know, I. don't know. I don't know why your body. does that, but yeah, I'd gone through u. I I couldn't get out of NOM, you know. It's it's when I first came home. I was. like 20 21 years old. I don't Yeah, maybe 21. I don't even know if I was 21, but around there. And uh. and it and I and here's what made it. really devastating to me at the time. I. mean, it it crushed me. That was when Do.

you remember the musical Hair? >> Mm-. >> No hair. Beautiful hair. Well, anyway, hair long hair became this incredible. rage in America in uh the early '7s and. there was this giant musical called Hair. and uh I think they made a movie out of. it even. But um anyway, Hair became this. everybody had long hair now and I didn't. I didn't like that, you know, I'm a long. hair guy, but uh everybody had long. hair. And so if you didn't I already.

came home looking, you know, here I got. a Marine Corps haircut. So, I already. looked out of it and you don't fit in. with all your friends because now you're. 20 years older than them, even if you're. the same age. Uh, and u, so you don't. fit in anyway, but now all your hair. falling out one night and and it it was. it was shocking, you know, it really. threw me over the edge there for a while. and and but the VA, you know, oh yeah, they diagnosed [clears throat] it severe.

you got severe combat fatigue. But anyway, enough of that. I uh but all. all that came about from Pat McCury. wanting a Purple Heart license tag, the. the Silver Star and all that stuff. It. all came out of that. But that night. that I that I got that Silverstar. license tag, I that I got the Silver. Star was it was um. that night in the graveyard. I wrote that story because of a guy a. kid named Unomtock.

We had a kid with us that was so. terrified. Sean, he uh we don't know. Nobody could figure out how he got. through boot camp. I didn't exaggerate. boot camp. It was hell. So I we didn't. know how he got how he got through boot. camp, but. somehow he got through. He was a. Hollywood Marine. I know that boot. camp's easier than Paris Island. So he. got through Hollywood Marine, but he got. through boot camp. He was so scared that. if we go on an ambush, you could hear.

his teeth chattering and you can't. shake. He would shake and uh he would. make noise and he would urinate on. himself all the time. Now, we were we. all smelled horrible anyway, but you. know, that makes it even worse when. somebody you're in a a hole with a guy. and he's peeing all the time, you know, all over you. But he he was absolutely. terrified and shouldn't have been there. And it became obvious, you know, we you. go out on a ambush or an LP with this. guy, man, you know, he's just, you know,

making noise, shaking, he's going to get. everybody killed. So, uh, so we, uh, the. lieutenant finally knew and came to him. and said, "We we're going to give you an. out." And we called him cowboy. He was. from, uh, Oklahoma and we called him. cowboy. and uh. and he he had his out from Vietnam. Now, look, a lot of the guys at that point, we they weren't letting us win the war. We knew that. It was clear they weren't.

going to let us win the war. Uh they. weren't going to let us ever go across. that river and invade the North. You. know, none of that was ever going to. happen. We were just going to play this. stalemate game and end up like Korea. And and that doesn't do anything for the. guy's morale. So you come to a bunch of. guys that have put in a tour, maybe two. tours, some of these guys, uh, and you. say, "Okay, here's your ticket home, back to the world. We're going to let. you go back to the world." That a lot of.

guys would just get me out of here. You. know, I did my time. I I'm ready to go. home. And uh here's a guy who's the most. terrified Marine I ever saw, I ever met. And he tells Lieutenant.

I ain't going home. till all the Marines go home. [ __ ] man. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, flash forward, they they put him. with my gun team. [snorts] And that. that's a funny story. They put him with. my gun team. I. I got I got hit again and I was coming.

back to the unit and they were flying me. back from a hospital and uh they tried. to land me with the guys and the um the. guys uh were under real intense fire. They were in a big shootout and so they. couldn't get me the chopper couldn't. bring me in and so they they dropped me. on an art artillery base and uh so it. was all these they were Marines. It was. a marine artillery base. Uh one I think. they were mostly 105s. They might had. some 155s, but um it was this arty base.

These guys live behind barb wire and. bunkers and you know and various grunt. units down there in the jungle to keep. people away from this arty base. But it. still is no picnic. They got hit and. stuff. I'm not saying they these guys, but uh but they lived a different life. than the grunts out in the bush. And I. uh I never saw I never you know if you. smoked if you even smoked a cigarette in. the bush with the guys I served with.

you. You you you might get yourself. killed. I mean there were some mean. people. They might kill you for. something, you know. You you're risking. their life and everybody's life. So you. you just didn't do crap like that, you. know. And uh and the idea of smoking. pot, you know, I came home and. everybody's going, "Oh, how good was the. pot over there?". I'm going, you've been watching too much. TV, bro. [laughter]. I don't know. You've been watching the. Air Force over there or something. I. because uh No, there weren't no pot.

where I was. And uh so so I land on this. arty base and I'm still 18 years old. I've never smoked pot. I've I don't even I didn't even know. what it was. If I saw it, I wouldn't. even know what it was. So, uh, the chopper drops me off with these RD. guys. We try to we'll come back and get. you, you know, when the heat goes down. on your unit. And I say, "Oh, okay." So, I get off and I'm standing alone. It's.

like guy in a desert, you know, cuz. they're all in their bunkers. So, I I. finally I see one of them come out. I. think he had Hawaiian shirt on. [laughter]. And he he comes out. He goes, "Hey, Grunt, come on [laughter] over." So I go and I. plot over to this bunker and they go. down in and they've got like beads over. their bunker and stuff, [laughter] you. know, like a little door and I go down. in the bunker and they've got music. playing, you know, the armed forces.

radio networks on and uh and they're. drinking. They got they got whiskey and. and they're smoking pot. They had pot. and uh and they offered me some and I. you know I've never smoked and they said. hey you might go about back out in the. bush and get killed tomorrow man at. least know what pot tastes like. Okay. So so I tried it and uh and then. uh I I got stoned. You know I'm stoned. and now now they're they're giving me.

whiskey shots of whiskey and I'm. thinking now this is a this is a pretty. good way to spend the war. [laughter]. I I think I'll I think I'm just going to. sign up for artillery here. [laughter]. Well, about that time, I hear this scream and uh hey, where's. that grunt? His ride's here. And I go, "Oh god." So, I stagger out of this uh. bunker and I go, "Oh no, this is going. to be bad." [laughter] And I get over to.

this chopper and I'm thinking, "Oh my. god." Get in the chopper, you know, and. I'm like hanging out thinking, "I hope I. don't throw up in the chopper." And they. it's uh they they they lift off and they. bring me back to my unit. And I'm thinking, well, the shootout's. over, you know, they'll drop me in. They're in a perimeter. [laughter]. Shootout wasn't over. So they this. chopper comes in and there's all kinds. of fire and there's bullets smacking. through this chopper and they let me out. and I'm like I'm I'm half buzzed and I'm.

standing in the middle of a shootout and. the Marines are all firing around the. perimeter and I'm standing in the open. and the gun is going GET DOWN YOU IDIOT. YOU KNOW. So I where's my gun to you and. he said your gun's over there Clark take. over the gun and so I make it back to my. gun. Well, it was during that firefight. that, you know, I I finally had time to. square away cuz it went on for a while. And uh so they uh I mean that we we had. to call in Phantoms and they're they're.

dropping napal. Oh jeez. A couple hundred yards outside. our perimeter, you know, and I mean it's. not a perimeter like a buildup area. We're we're just in an open area, you. know. We've behind trees and uh dug some. holes, foxholes, you know, and it's uh. but we've got a perimeter set up and uh. so but about 200 yards out in front of. me uh a lot of the fires coming from and. so I got to pinpoint we're calling in. Napon man over there and the lieutenant.

tells me. So I I show them where where. the Napon and just the second I open up. to show them where it's at, man. These. Phantoms rip by. I mean, you could see. the pilots. They're so low, you know, and that sound and and you see these. canisters tumbling real slow and then. suddenly it all goes up in flames and uh. of course, you know, Marines are. cheering. This is great, you know, and a. couple of gooks ran out of it on fire. and and so we we shot him and um but.

this went on for a while, this this big. shootout. And uh. well later on uh we're not going. anywhere. Clearly we're not going. anywhere and nobody's coming to save us. So we we just hunkered down, you know, and and so uh I uh and choppers can't. get in, you know. That chopper almost. got shot down. So nobody's coming. So u. we've been there. This is going on for. hours. [clears throat].

And Chan Chan and I are behind this fall. this tree that's been knocked down. We're behind this tree and we got a hold. I got and he says, "So, uh, you want. some coffee?" [laughter]. And I I said, "Oh, man. I really need. coffee." He says, "Yeah, you smell like. you need coffee." [laughter]. And I go, "Well, it wasn't my fault. It. was these guys, you know." And he goes, "Yeah, all right. That's just so we, you. know, break out a C-ration can and we. take a C-ration can, you know, we had.

these old C-ration cans and we punched. holes in it and you put a little piece. of C4 plastic explosive for those who. don't know. So, we put a a piece of C4. in the bottom of the can, light it, and. uh and and heat your food or so we. heated up some coffee. So, we're sitting. back leaning against this tree and. there's there's still lead flying over, but there's nothing we could do. And I. don't have any targets. Nobody's saying. guns up. So it's like to have some. coffee and Tan says something funny and. we were always saying I mean it's you.

know how everybody deals with this crap. a different way. >> and you know I'm not. >> pretending humor we weren't scared or. any of that kind of crap but you deal. with fear your own way and. >> you know it it's like you can't do. anything about it like yeah so I Yeah. So, we're having a cup of coffee and uh. and he said something funny to me and I. started laughing cuz I was already I was. still kind of out there and the. lieutenant and the Gunny hear us over. there laughing.

and then the word gets around the. perimeter. Hey, Clark and Chan are. having coffee. [laughter]. Oh, well, pretty soon [laughter]. pretty soon the Gunny Gunny McDermott, we called him Gunny Magnet cuz he drew. so much lead. Gunny Magnet comes sliding in like he's. stealing second base and he's going, "What the hell are you guys doing?" You. know, and well, Gunny, we don't have any. targets, you know? We're kind of running.

out of ammo. I thought you're [laughter]. like, "I'm drunk. I'm high. And now I'm. [ __ ] caffeinated. Let's go to war.". just you know we wanted to have a cup of. coffee and he goes he goes oh gosh you. know that he says you know lieutenant is. talking about a section 8 for you you. guys [laughter]. and I go oh man it's not that bad so. flash forward after all this is over. here's unmtock the the kid that's so. terrified. and the gunny and the lieutenant walk.

him over to us you know the shootout's. over and they walk him over to me and. Chan and they said, "Listen, uh, we're. going to put him in with your gun team.". Yeah, you you need another guy anyway. And of course, a machine gun team is. supposed to be five guys. A lot of times. it was just me, you know, there were I. didn't even have an a gunner sometimes. So now we have three guys with this kid, you know, being dropped in. And so that. was good news. But once we we realized.

it was him, we're going, "Oh god, you. know, he's so terrified." um you know. this is going to be rough. But then the. lieutenant came and told he said, "Look, I'm I'm putting him with you guys to see. if you can. make him laugh. See if you can chill him. out a little bit. Uh otherwise, I've got. to send him home.". And so Chan and I. took him in and tried to mother him a. little bit and uh started giving him. Bible passages. And we uh started.

teaching him the Bible a little bit. Well, I we gave him a. there's a verse in there. I think it's. out of Romans. I think it's Romans 8. I. I um this is where I get mad at myself. I should know these verses. And normally. I do. I just a little excited about. being on the show and stuff, but uh. anyway, it was out of Romans 8. And uh. the one about of war and famine and. pestilence and all that might rise. against you and your parents might your. parents might you know uh dump you but.

uh but I never will you know that verse. and uh and I. I uh. here I got to slow down on the story. because I didn't got to be careful what. I say about it. But he he had problems. when he joined the Marine Corps. That's. one of the reasons he joined the Marine. Corps is because evidently his family. didn't they they thought it was a joke. him trying to be a Marine and uh that he.

he could never hack it. And uh anyway, yeah, he he he had some issues, but. everybody's got issues with their. parents. I'm not, you know, I'm not. nailing them, but he felt sort of I. think he felt sort of abandoned or. something by his family in the in the. sense that they didn't support him. I. don't know I don't know all the details. and I'm not going to pretend to, but I. know he needed that verse. and. um and we prayed with him and we uh we.

did what we could, you know, to try to. you got to lean on the Lord here. You. know, all of us are scared. And he'd. say, "You clowns aren't scared. Do you. look at you?" And I said, "Oh no." I. said, "Well, this is just the way we. deal with it." He goes, "Everybody deals. with it differently." And I go, "Everybody's scared. It's there's guy's. dying out here, man. Of course, we're. scared." And we'd tell him, you know, "Hey, uh, let's just pray about it.". Every time you get like that, you know, when we tell him how to pray and and he. started getting a little better.

Well, uh, right before we went into that. graveyard, uh, it was a big big. operation. It was a place called Dodge. City in the Arizona territory outside of. Ammo Combat Base and it was it looked. like Arizona. That's why they called it. the Arizona Territory, you know, it. looked like out in the desert in Arizona. kind of looking and uh uh but one part. of it was called Dodge City. If you went. in there, you were going to be in a. shootout. You you always knew it. Everybody knew it. Well, we knew when we.

were doing an OP in Dodge City, we knew. uh we're going to see some crap today. and uh and we did, but they took him out. of the our gun team right before that. and put him in uh uh Corporal Hudson's. uh Hu T S O N Corpal Hudson's uh squad. And uh Corporal Hudson, he'd already he. was already a hero in Way City. I mean, the guy kind of corporal you want, you. know. I mean uh. >> uh anyway he.

we we started off when we made this op. uh we started off we ran into uh three. three gs had come out of the brush oh 50. yards ahead of us you know and we saw. them it was open area up to some brush. uh at trees kind of and uh Sam the. blooper man uh boom with his blooper he. they they take off running and he hits. one square in the back and He flips, but. he's not dead. And the other two grab.

him and they pull him into the trees. And I I shot one and he starts limping. in to the trees. So, we know we've. wounded two. And they go into this tree. line. Well, the whole company, we got a. whole company with us this day. And uh I. guess there were even more than that out. there, but this this spot we had a Alpha. Company, Fifth Marines, uh5. were we're. going up to this thing and we didn't. have usually we were out there with 20.

guys. This time we got a whole company. so we knew they're expecting some big. crap. And u we get up to that tree line. and we see them dragging this each other. into the tree line across. It's about 75. m across and it's graveyards and you. know the Vietnamese graves were these. little round mounds uh that it was. significant. They they would they were. sent in the back into the womb. You know. when they were buried they're going back. into the womb or something like that. And uh so anyway, there were little.

round mounts a you know couple of feet. off the ground usually maybe foot and a. half I don't know it depended and u and. that was that was the graveyard but. there wasn't any other cover other than. that it was open and uh so they told me. recon by fire I was ordered out so I I. go out in the graveyard and uh I recon. by fire. Now, at this point, another. gunner had been killed, and they gave.

Chan his gun. So, now Chan and I aren't. together. And uh Chan's got a gun. I got. a gun. So, uh they send Chan out, too. So, me and Chan go out and we just spray. we spray the other tree line across the. graveyard. We just open fire, maybe 100. rounds, and uh nobody fires back. So they send they send across Corporal. Hudson's squad. and now his squad, you know, he we taken.

some hits and I forgot how many guys. were in his squad, you know, maybe eight. or 10, I don't even maybe um but anyway, they they go across and uh they're. spread out going, you know, going slowly. because it's open area, but they uh. suddenly h when they're halfway out. there, Everything opens up and we found out. later it was a we ran into a battalion. >> Holy. >> And uh I mean they had they had. everything. They had mortars. They had a.

mortar teams back there. They had. everything. And uh three 30 caliber. machine guns open up from fixed. position. They were in bunkers on the. other side spread out but three of them. And then there's fire coming from our. right flank across the graveyard all on. these the squad out there because we're. still behind the tree line. the rest of. the guys and uh and these guys hit the. dirt, but I saw a kid named Sunny. Uh I. saw him get blown back by 30 cow and I.

just assumed he was dead, but then you. didn't see anything. Well, this they. kept firing. We got we got orders. They're screaming, "Hold your fire. Hold. your fire because if we open fire, we're. going to hit our own guys. They're out. in the middle of this graveyard." So, uh, and they're on our side of these. mounds trying to hide from all the fire. and you really couldn't see them. It's. starting to get dark. It's now now it's. getting late and it starts raining and. uh, monsoon rain. It It was a brutal.

rainstorm starts coming in, but then it. eases up and now these guys, they open. up again and there's just a ton of fire. I mean, we're talking, I don't know, you. know, a battalion's worth of AK-47s. And. these guys, they they liked opening up. full auto, you know. They didn't have. any fire discipline, you know. I mean, Marines didn't do that. If you opened up. on full auto, somebody's going to smack. you. So, you know, you only did that. We. didn't You didn't have infinite ammo, you know. You But anyway, but these.

guys, these these crazy. >> NVA, they were they were just every lead. tracers. They even uh they even threw a. couple of satchel charges out in the. middle of this graveyard. So, I don't. know what they were their plans were. long range, but they were clearly going. to blow stuff up. But, uh, yeah, and. here's eight or nine Marines, 10 Marines. out there in the middle of all this. So, it was it was horrible. And we keep we. want to open fire and we can't. And I I. ran down and I ran out in the graveyard. and uh I I got on top of one of the.

mounds. so I could shoot over them, you know, without hitting our guys. And I uh you. know, I knocked out a 30. I I I killed. that gun team and uh and you knew you. killed them because their their tracer. green tracers went straight up in the. sky for a while and they and uh and then. I I hit another one. I turned on the. next machine gun cuz you had to knock. them out first, which is what and. everybody they shot my boots out from. under me, [laughter] you know. So I uh I.

was knocked down and my a gunner at the. time uh uh he he was from Indiana. He ran out there, grabbed my boots and. dragged me behind the grave mound. And. so you know another heroic thing, you. know, because it because it was crazy. It was there was so much lead flying. And uh and then we started taking M79. rounds, blooper rounds, and we know. they're not Marines. They had killed. some Marines and took their bloopers,

you know, but they were firing at us. from the right flank. Well, anyway, they. he he pulls me, drags me, we get back. back to the tree line. and uh but because everybody tried to. shoot me, [clears throat] most of the. squad was able to get out. And uh so this went on though. This this. kept going on. So it went on all night. where this fight that's going on all. night. And uh uh they they start calling. in their mortars now and we can see the.

mortar flashes, but the the lieutenant. moves the whole company around to the. left flank and we're behind rice patty. dikes and we see the muzzle flashes of. mortar rounds just, you know, I and I I. can see the flashes and I can see the. guys. I can see the NVA soldiers. dropping in mortars from the flash. You. can see them standing and uh they're. back there in the trees behind this this. there was an old hooch that back there. that we had originally blown up. It's. where I I killed one machine gun to him.

Anyway, uh they uh he wouldn't let me. open fire on these guys. We were trying. to not let them know where we were. because they were pinpointing our old. position with mortars just blowing the. crap out of it. So, the lieutenant was holding our fire. until we got uh some artillery called in. or or I don't know what his plans were, but the rain, the monsoon rain got so. heavy that uh we were we were literally. you could drown behind these rice.

patties that the big dikes were down in. the mud, but the water was filling up. That's how much rain came in. And so we. had finally in the middle of this mess, we see a guy running out of the. graveyard towards us. Not where our old. position was, but towards us. And I. start to kill it. I mean, I I'm going to. blow him away. And I see a flash of a. mortar going off and I see his helmet. It's an American helmet. We held I. scream, "Hold your fire. Hold your. fire." Nobody shoots him. And I And he.

stands, "Who are you?" And I ran out, tackled him, dragged him back. It was. Pat McCra, the one Yeah. The one who got. the Purple Heart license tag the hard. way. Well, anyway, it was Pat McCra. And. uh he had stayed out there with uh. Sunny, the one that I thought was for. sure dead. So he comes in and he goes, "Uh, Sunny's still out there. Sunny's. still out there." And uh so Gunny Mack, he comes up. He goes, "All right, you.

got to take us back to him. we're going. to go get him. So, I went out with him. and we crawled out in the graveyard to. try to find Sunny. [clears throat and cough] and then then. everybody realizes uh Unimtock's not. here, too. So, we got two at least two. Marines still out there. So, and and. Corporal Hudson went out with us, too. So, we're all crawling back into this. mess, and we couldn't find we couldn't. find him. He he wasn't where he'd been. left. And uh cuz uh Pat knew exactly.

where he left him. I mean, you know, he. knew exactly where pretty much where he. was. He wasn't there anymore. Well, we. didn't know it at the time, but the uh G. machine gunners came out and dragged him. back, dragged his body back up in front. of their gun. so that they were waiting for us to come. and get him. And uh so they they and he. said he thought he the next morning we. sweep through. Battle's over and uh now we've got.

artillery coming. We sweep through. though. Fix bayonets. It's just you know. and I got no bayonet on that 60. [laughter]. So we sweep across sweep with bayonets. fixed and they've they've deed him out. So we we uh but we ended up running into. them again later. But uh they uh. [clears throat]. we find we find Sunny and I assume he's. dead and we roll him over and he's his. eyes are swollen shut, you know, like.

big like he looks like a a raccoon. And. uh his eyes suddenly just pop open and. he goes, "Oh my god, you guys won't. believe what happened to me last night.". [laughter] And he starts telling us a. crazy tale. and and he had the the gooks. had come out and and they came down at. him with a with a like a kbar and he. thought they were just going to kill. him. They were going to finish him off. and they cut off his web gear, cut off. all of his gear and took it and then.

they dragged him up in front of the gun. and left him. And he said, "I almost. drowned." [laughter] I was I was doing. everything not to drown because the. water was rising. There was so much rain. and uh he lived. That guy lived. He went. on to become a Virginia state senator. Chan went to see him. He went actually. went to see the guy in Virginia. He. still lives here. Uh not that not that. many maybe a couple of years back. So So. Chan went to see him and he's still. alive and well and uh he lived through.

that night. But here's a guy with all. these bullet holes who lives. and not very far away. He didn't have we couldn't find a wound. on him. Now later uh later years later. they told me they did they found a. little shrapnel hole but uh they said. that didn't kill him you know but he. at the time the the corman and Chan. who's way more than a corman. He was. also handy for that stuff. He was like a.

doctor. Uh they said that yeah they he. died of heart failure. He he literally. died of heart failure. Damn. Didn't have to be out there. Could have. gone home. >> [ __ ]. Wow. >> Yeah. It's a hell of a night. >> Yeah. Ever notice how many guys have a pouch. in basically all day, then stack.

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use code SRS to get 15% off at. takeulttra.com. That's take Ultra.com for 15% off with. code SRS. After you purchase, they'll. ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them. our show sent you. What was your favorite Bible verse while. you're over there? Did you have one? >> Yeah. Uh well, [clears throat]. I'm afraid it's it's changed over the.

years at [laughter] at for this reason. Uh. my my my Bible verse now is uh uh Psalm. 121. I lift up my eyes to the mountains. From. where comes my help? My help comes from. the Lord who made heaven and earth. And. and I know the whole verse, but that's. the part that uh is a big deal to me. uh. that that's a huge deal to me that I. wrote took me 14 years to write about it.

because uh I didn't know what God wanted. me to do with this but it was it was a. miracle and uh the story behind it is. you know I mean some people would want. us to put me in a funny farm and but. Christians will hear it and go yeah that. sounds like God you know but uh it was. Should I tell you can I tell you about. it or should. >> of Right. I I was writing a book called Gunner's. Glory. This one.

And it's uh it's about machine gunners. from World War II, Korea, Vietnam. Incredible machine gun. Some, you know, some great Marines. Uh and I some of the. men I ran into were just just amazing. Uh, and. one, uh, it started off I ran into a guy. named Ted Ellist, and there's a picture. of Ted in this thing. Uh, Ted died a few. years back, but, uh, Ted, uh, Ted was he.

there's a picture of him carrying an old. water cooled 30 on horseback. That's. what an old Salty was. He was in the. fifth Marines. He was a a Nicaragua era. Uh they knew they knew the war was going. to start. They uh he was he he hits. Guadal Canal. They his whole story is. amazing. But through Ted and Ted ran out. of ammo on Guadal Canal, ran out of. everything and had nothing. A jab came.

out of the bush and uh it was him and a. [ __ ] soldier. He had nothing but a a. hunting knife. He didn't even have a. KBAR. His dad would give him a hunting. knife and he had to he had to kill this. [ __ ] with a hunting knife. He still slept. with that hunting knife by his bed and I. still sleep with a KBAR. And. >> still to this day, >> to this day, there's one by my bed. There's one on my desk. and I and a and a 45.

I still uh Yeah, I still do. But uh you. know when when this crap happens in the. middle of the night, you just I don't. sleep good without it. You know, when I. take trips like this and you can't bring. a weapon on the plane and stuff, I don't. like that. >> I know. >> Now, I'm still Yeah, I bet you do. And I. I uh I mean, I'm I'm old, but I could. still surprise some people with handhand. combat. And you know, I'm not dead yet, but uh yeah, I don't I don't I don't. like not being able to go to sleep with.

something beside me, especially now. I. don't hear good. Somebody can sneak up. on you. And this this kind of stuff, you. know, I mean, you don't get over it. You. know, I'll be that way. And neither did. Ted. Ted was 84. He slept with his this his KBAR. And uh. and it was all because of this moment on. Guadal Canal where it was no grenades, no pistol ammo, no machine gun ammo, nothing left. Yeah. Amazing man. Uh and.

I I got to tell you how I met him, but. him leading me to another guy. I met him. uh at Hasslam's bookstore is where I had. my book signings for all my books. It. used to be the oldest bookstore in the. southeast in St. Pete, Florida. And uh. fabulous old bookstore. And uh they the. guys who ran it uh told me one time they. knew I was starting this book and I and. they said you know Johnny. you need to meet Ted. You need to meet. Ted. And I said who's Ted? He says Ted.

Machine gunner Guadal Canal Fifth. Marines. Uh he says you need to meet. Ted. And so I said I I got to meet him. Let's do it. And so they uh they contact. they said uh yeah he'll he'll he'll meet. with you and they gave me his address. and uh they said look when you meet him. you're going to notice his right hand is. a real mess you know 84 year old skin. Mine's getting like that but you you.

you'll notice his his hand is kind of. purple and beat up and and he he said. ask him to tell you the story behind. that. [laughter]. And I'm going, "Oh, I think I'm liking. this guy already." And they said, "Oh, no." He said, "We got to tell you.". He saw a girl. He thought he thought he. thought this guy was uh roughing up a. girl on Central Avenue in this. kind of seedy part of Central Avenue. And he and Ted was walking down the.

street. He's coming to Hasslam's. bookstore. And uh he thought uh this guy. was being ungentlemanly to this uh lady. and uh he did I guess the guy must have. slapped her or something. I don't know. what he did but Ted uh goes up to him. and says something to him. The guy. mouththed off. Ted goes boom knocked him. out, laid him out in the middle of. Central Avenue. How cold. Ted had been a. boxer and a fighter. Uh and he was still.

a big guy. 84, but you know, still a. great big guy. You wouldn't want to get. hit by him. And this guy found that out. >> He dropped a dude at 84. >> Yeah. Yeah. He knocked a guy out. >> No, I'm telling you, these these old. Marines, these old Marines, these old. China hands and some of these crazy guys. from Korea and I got some stories that. you wouldn't believe some of these guys. I mean, they're absolute nutcases. I. just love them. Gunnery Sergeant Francis. Hugh Collehen, as Irish as the day he is. born, played the bag pipes in the face.

of the Chinese, the first Chinese human. wave assault at Sudog knee. They told. him he was ordered to and they shot the. bag pipes through his throat. When he. told me his story, he had throat cancer. from that and he had to write his story. to me. If you read these letters from. this old Irishman, you'll cry laughing. It's just so beautiful. It's [laughter]. He's one of my books, too. Yeah, but. he's in uh No Better Way to Die. I put a. lot of stuff about him. But anyway, in. this one, uh uh Ted tells me about Yeah,

you know, Mitchell Mitch Paige was uh he. was in the Seventh Burnings, but he you. know, he was he was at Canal, too. And. I'm going Mitchell Page Gu uh Medal of. Honor. And he goes, "Yeah, I think he. did." Yeah, I think he got me of Honor, you know, it was just another guy. And. he goes, "Yeah, you know, uh you need to. talk to Mitch." Uh, so anyway, I got I. got Ted's story. I get a hold of. Mitchell Page. The short version is this. I see you got.

a G.I. Joe doll up there. >> Mitchell Page is the marine that Hasbro. Toys made the G.I. Joe doll in honor of. because of what he did on Guadal Canal. And what he did on Guadal Canal is a. little crazy. it. There was one one big. hit where uh they caught Japanese barges. unloading troops and the Japs didn't. think that the Marines would leave uh. the ridge, Edson's Ridge on Guadal. Canal. They thought they'd stay there.

and hunker down and try to protect the. airfield. And the Marines, some some. crazy Marines said, "No, let's go get. let's go out and find them in the. jungle." They went out and they they saw. him offloading off barges getting into. position. I mean, a a a linement and. marching down the beach where they were. going to attack, you know, the Edson's. Ridge eventually. And Ted, they they say. he could have had there could have been. 600 Japs killed in in this shootout.

because they had them totally in the. open. And the Marines had dug in on the. beach. They were coming down. They dug. in on the beach with water cooled 30s. and the Mahoney gun which had a lot of. these old guys were gunsmiths. Sean, they they rigged up a 30 caliber water. cooled to fire. They said now this this. from them. They said somewhere between. 900 and,200 rounds a minute. >> Whoa. >> They different springs. They you know. they were gunsmiths. They really they. had these old Marines were that was. their life. They you know you know I.

they were they were real real tough. guys. Well, they this guy named Mahoney. had had done all this work on these guns. before the Japs bomb Pearl Harbor and. they knew it was coming and uh he he had. them prepared. Well, the these were. Mahoney guns. So, that Mahoney gun place. is significant in this whole miracle. that I was leading up to. But so I. interviewed Mitchell Page. and I uh more than once, but my final.

interview with with him, he was on his. deathbed and his wife Marilyn wouldn't. uh she wouldn't let it anybody talk to. him cuz he was he was he was going down. It was he was dying and everybody knew. it. And uh and uh she let me she uh you. know cuz I was I was a Marine gunner. She knew I was I was writing this story. about him and uh so I she let me. interview him. Well, on his deathbed, he.

told me this story. Now, he had told it. to the Gideonss. years before and the Gideonss actually. put out a little pamphlet about it, but. I never heard about it. But, um. Edson's Ridge was a ridge that defended. the airfield, Henderson Henderson Field. If we lost Guadal Canal, they say. Australia would have fallen. Guaddle. Canal was that important at that point. in the war. And a lot of people think,

you know, America was dominating the war. and nothing could be further from the. truth at that point. You know, we we. were in major trouble. Uh Midway, you. know, had done a lot, but we never won a. ground battle against these guys. And. they were building this this they built. this Henderson Field and uh on Guadal. Canal and they were going to be able to. bomb Australia and it was for taking. Australia and they were gonna they would. have taken Australia. We didn't have. enough to stop them at that time and uh. uh and they because they were already in.

uh the little islands moving up to. Australia. So the Marines had to hold Guadal Canal. It was really life and death. that I've. read old experts that said they that. they think the Japs could have made it. all the way past California, maybe as. far as Chicago. I've actually heard read. this stuff. Yeah. Old history accounts. had we not stopped a Guadal Canal. So it. was critical and unless you study. history, you know, it's just another. battle, but it was freaking critical.

And uh so all that was keeping the Japs. off Henderson Field was this one this. ridge ridge line and and on the other. side of the ridge line is the airfield. On this side of the ridge line is all. jungle. deep thick jungle. The Japs were your. tremendous jungle fighters and they they. were coming out of the coming out of the. jungle and hitting Edson's ridge and at. one point in a mass attack.

[clears throat]. they they had almost swamped the ridge. Uh the Marines had run out of ammo. They. were they were just getting clobbered. and uh we couldn't get any more that. that the [ __ ] Navy had sunk a bunch of. the US Navy out there. That's something. else a lot of people don't study don't. realize. We lost a bunch of naval ships. and our navy couldn't help us on Gado. Canal because they they a lot of them. got sunk. Uh some big big battles. I.

think it was Savo Island or something. like that. Anyway, some big gun I mean. naval battles out there where the Navy. took some huge losses, a lot of men. Maybe more men died there than on Guad. Canal. I don't even know. But but it uh. so at that point we were going to lose. Guad Canal. At at one point, a tipping. point in this battle for the ridge, the Marines had the Mahoney guns and. even the Japs could tell by the fire, the rate of fire. You could tell by the.

sound of it that wasn't a normal water. water cooled 30 that thing, you know. Holy [ __ ] Yeah, it was it'd be like. Well, it was like the first time I heard. uh Puff the Magic Dragon when they fire. those miniguns and it wasn't a machine. gun sound. It was that, you know, well, I don't I'm imagining it must have. sounded, >> you know, somewhat similar because it. didn't sound like. So, the Japanese knew. these guns were bad news and they were. on the receiving end of it. And uh but. at one point, every single Marine.

machine gunner had been uh killed or or. wounded and knocked out. All all the. guns, all the machine guns were out of. action. There was one machine gun down. at one end of the ridge that could cover. the whole ridge. If the Japanese got to that gun before. Mitchell Page got to that gun, they could turn that Mahoney gun on the. ridge. They would control the ridge. They would have won the battle of Guad.

Canal. It it this is what he told me. Other guys have told me that I trust. them. So at that point, Mitchell Page is in a race to get to. that Mahoney gun. He sees it. A [ __ ]. soldier sees it. The [ __ ] has a Namboo 30. round clip. That Namboo machine gun. It's got a 30 round clip, banana clip. The Jap's carrying it, trying to race to. that Mahoney machine gun. But Mitch gets. there first, kicks the dead Marines off.

out of the way and off the gun because. they were draped all over the gun. The. gun's still in action. It hadn't been. blown up or anything. He gets behind the. gun. He leans forward to chamber around. And you know the old 30s, you had to put. some weight in that. and he leans gonna. lean forward to chamber around and open. fire on this jab before he it's between. him and the jab. The Japanese soldier. drops to the ground point blank range. This is what Mitch says. Point blank. range, you know, 10, 20 yards. I mean,

point blank range. Drops to the ground, opens up with his namboo. Mitch, this is. what he told me on his deathbed. I. absolutely believe him now. I really. believe him now that God's done. something similar to me. As he goes to. lean forward and chamber around, he. said, "I was frozen in place." He said, "I could not move front, back, sideways." He said, "I couldn't do. anything." And he said, "But Johnny, I.

felt at total peace. I wasn't scared. I. knew this guy was going to put 30 rounds. through my temple. I wasn't scared. I I. couldn't do anything about it. And for. some reason, I had absolute peace. There. was no I was It's like a tractor beam, you know, like a Star Wars guy. He. couldn't do anything. And he said the. [ __ ] opens fire. He got burned from here. down to here with 30 rounds going under. his chin and all down here. Didn't get.

hit. Had he been able to lean forward. and chamber the round, he was dead. But. as soon as he fired his last round, he. he said, "I was released." Said totally. released. Boom. Fell forward, chambered. around, killed the jab soldier. The. battle's still going on, but not in this. sector, another part of the ridge. But. this, he turns the Mahoney gun now on. the Jabs. They're in retreat now. They've they've beat him back a little. bit. Uh later he had to then lead a.

bayonet charge to drive the last ones. off off into the jungle again. But. >> he goes at when the shooting is stopped. It's still dark. I mean the flares are. going up. But he goes over and he said, "I got behind that Namboo, kicked the. [ __ ] soldier down the hill." He says, "Got behind that Namboo and looked." He. said, "There's no way he could possibly. miss me with 30 rounds." and and he. goes, "God, how could this possibly. happen? I mean, how could this possibly.

happen? You had to freeze me." You know, he's talking to God. Well, as he's doing. this, he's pleading with God. He had his. little finger had been almost severed in. the bayonet fight. So, he's bleeding all over the place. So, he notices it. He goes gets his pack. and tries to get his first aid kit out. to wrap up this this hand. And he said, "As soon as I picked it up, my Bible. just fell out." He had a like I don't.

know if it was a Gideon. I I guess it. was a Gideon, but he had a little Bible. He said, "It fell out and it fell open.". And I'd been asking God, "How how could. this possibly happen?" You know, tell me. you how. And it falls open to a page. He. said, "There wasn't any wind, but the. pages blew open to a certain page." And. he he said he said one passage lights. up. He said it was like gold and it would. look bigger than all the other letters.

on the on the page. It was big and. bright. It showed so bright. He said it. scared the crap out of me because it it. was giving away my position. He said it. was there's still japs out there and. this was like a light. And he reads it. Proverbs 3:5. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. and do not lean on your own. understanding. In all your ways. acknowledge him and he will lead your. path. That was the verse his mother sent.

him to war with. That was that was her. favorite verse. later. Yeah. But his favorite verse. >> Yeah, I know. So he said I didn't even. tell the other guys. He said if id have. told them this they would have thought I. was shell I had shell shock because it. wasn't combat fatigue, you was shell. shock. He said they would have thought I. had shell shock and uh you know they. would have thought I was nuts. They. wouldn't have believed it. So he said I. didn't even tell the guys just I didn't. tell anybody till years later. And he. did tell the Gideonss this. And uh and.

so his favorite verse though is also is. Psalm 121. I lift my eyes to the. mountains from whence cometh my help. My. help comes from the Lord who made heaven. and earth. That was his favorite verse. And uh that. part of that part of this story, I mean, flash forward, Mitchell Page died soon after my. interview with him and soon after he. told me this all about this. And uh I go.

forward about three years. Well, I was. working on another book and I, you know, I finish a book, I never look at it. again because if I do, I hate it and I. want to rewrite it. So I I don't even. look at them again. And uh I never that. book was put away. And I mean I admired. the heck out of Mitchell Page. Uh yeah, like I said, every time I see a G.I. Joe. doll, you know, that's that's Mitchell. Page. He got some ribbon for that, too. G.I. Joe. He's a Marine, but that.

Anyway, so [laughter]. so Oh, he caught some crap over that. But anyway, so uh so he uh years later, I I was going through a rough ride. It. was soon. somewhere near when all this crap. happened at the big red thing and I was, you know, I don't like to call I don't. like PTSD. I don't like the term. So, >> I didn't mind when they said I had. combat fatigue. I don't know. Maybe it's. it's just me. Maybe I'm old, but I uh I.

didn't mind that term. You can say that. this PTSD thing. I I don't like this. lump, you know, rape cases and car. wrecks and everybody, you know, into a. PTSD file. I don't think it's the same. I And I don't like it. So, I didn't mind. that, but. PTSD. Uh so, I guess I was, you know, you know, they said I had 100%. And uh I. guess I I guess I did. So, I uh I was. going through a tough span. We.

[clears throat] we have a Bible study at. my house all the time. We'd have a. taekwondo at my school and then at. taekwondo and judo school and uh. afterwards uh certain days you'd have a. Bible study class and so we we do it at. my house. Everybody go to my house and. we do it. And uh I I was just having a. rough time. I was you know and uh my. pastor came on he he came to the Bible. study and I I talked to him after.

everybody left. I told him the. situation. I said, "Hey, you know, not sleeping good. You know, a. lot of remembering stuff at uh not. forgiving myself for stuff.". He said, "I'm doing a study on time. alone with the Lord.". He goes, "Johnny, it's changed. Phil, Phil Engelman is his name. Phil and Sue. Engelman." He says, "Johnny, it's. changing Phil. It's it's changing me and.

Sue's life. Cutting everything off. and just spending time alone with the. Lord. He said, "You need to go spend. time." When was the last time you spent. time alone with the Lord? Is what he. asked me. I said, "Not since I was a. little kid back in the mountains of West. Virginia. I'd go up on a hill, you know, but I said, "Not since I was a little. kid." And he goes, "Uh, that's that's. what you need. So, you need to go spend. time alone with the Lord." And I said, "Well, what does that mean to you?".

>> Well, I didn't really know either. because I and I said I turned to Nancy. and I said, "Nancy, let's let's go get a mountain cabin or. something somewhere." And and he goes, "No, no, no, Johnny. Not with Nancy. Just you. Take your Bible. Go spend time alone with the Lord. No, nobody else. Not Not your family, not. your kids. go spend time alone. And uh I said,

"Gosh, you know, one of my senior. students uh had had moved away. He was a. taekwondo master and he had moved to. North Carolina. He uh he was a professor. at Montre College and brilliant guy, you. know, really brilliant. Um and a strong. Christian. And he uh I I called Tony up. and I said, "Tony, here's what Phil told. me. I'd like to try it. Can can you. think you can find me a cabin or. something in North Carolina? I just, you. know, go be alone, something out in the.

mountains, something out in the hills. He goes, "That's really weird." He He. tells me the uh these these people he's. a doctor from Duke and he they own a. like a little mountain getaway and they. asked Tony and Jane, his wife, to take. care of it while they were they were. gone and they'd rent it out and stuff. once in a while. He says, "You know, they're asking us to take care of this. place." And that's unbelievable. You can. go there. It And uh I Well, how much is.

it? You know, I I have I don't have much. money. And he said, "Uh, no, no, it it. it's free. We're taking care of it. They. won't care a bit." So, I said, "I'm on. my way." So, I I hop a plane, go to. Asheville, take a ride out to Black. Mountain, North Carolina. He sends me. out to it's it's uh Montre, North Carolina, right outside of uh. Black Mountain. And uh so I rent this. little I don't rent it. I stay in this.

cabin. I mean it was pretty rugged. It. was pretty rugged cabin. This was I mean. there are spiderw webs, you know, they. have like been keeping this place up a. whole lot. But it was perfect. It's just. what I needed. And uh but I haven't been. out in the woods alone. since N really. And um I once again I. didn't have my I didn't have my 45. I. didn't have a pistol. I I didn't have a. KBAR. And uh you know out in the woods. sounds uh uh so I it started I started.

feeling a little antsy and I u called. Nancy and I my daughter calls. She's all. freaking out. My daughter Bonnie K she. calls and what are you doing dad? I. don't know if that's healthy for you. What are you doing out there? Uh, she's. already come to me and said, "Is is PTSD. catching, Dad?" [laughter] Because I'm. worried I'm catching it. I said, "Oh, God, honey, I hope not." [laughter] So, she she knows she knows the story of her.

dad. And uh but but here I am out in the. mountains. Called Dancy up and I and I. said, "You know, I've been here a night. or two now and I said, I I keep hearing. noises outside the cabin and I'm not I'm. not getting anything done. You know, I'm. not I'm just uncomfortable. I'm kind of. always watching my flanks, you know. I. six nobody there, you know. I got I. don't have a perimeter. I don't feel. good out here without a perimeter." And. uh so I had I said so uh yeah I'm I set.

up some pungey pits. So I I set up some. punge pits around this cabin just uh. just 2x4s with uh nails, six penny. nails, you know, sticking up and so. they'll yelp. I'll know somebody's here. and uh you know have some kind of. defense ready. And um and it it made me. feel a little better. What I found out. later it was bears. bears were banging. stuff around that cabin and [laughter]. and I didn't know. I mean, you know, but.

uh but I'm still finally the third day I. I'm out on the porch. having a cup of coffee doing my Bible. study, going to read my Bible, feeling. okay, feeling better, and you know, now. I can really spend some time alone with. the Lord and not be thinking about. anything else and da da da. Well, then. the guy who owns the house, he shows up. He's going to do repairs on the place. And now I'm going, "Oh god." So he's got. saws.

He's got hammers and saws and he's made. And I go, "Oh my god." I call up Nancy. and I said, "Nancy, I can't believe it. This is a total failure." And she goes, "Johnny, just take a walk and cool off. Just take a walk. You need to just take. a walk. That's it. I'll take a walk.". >> [snorts]. >> So I took off walking from down the hill. from this cabin through Montre up this. mountain road. I don't know. It's a few. miles and I just kept walking until I.

came to a trail. Uh it's a it's a gray. beard mountain. It's a hiking trail. Now. this was back in 200. four I think. And and it wasn't as built. up then. You know it was really out. there a little bit. And so anyway this. mountain trail nobody's there. a storm's. rolling in. There's all these warnings, you know, bring cell phone, bring this, bring water, watch out for bears, etc., etc. Of course, I'm in shorts and a. t-shirt. I just took off walking and I.

didn't even bring my cell phone. I'm. just I'm just going to hike. So, I start. hiking up this trail and I went and went. I don't know a couple thousand feet up. It's it's I think it's like 4,800 feet. to the top and I'm I'm just hiking. Well, I had knee surgery not long before. that. I shouldn't be doing this. it. And. uh but I don't care, you know, at that. point. I don't care. I'm just I need to. walk. I need to hike. I reach a mountain stream and there's a. big rock out in the middle. And I go out.

and I I jump over and get on this big. rock. The streams going by me, you know, and I mean, it was beautiful. It uh you. know, perfect postcard. There's nobody. out there. I mean, cuz the storms, you. know, it's it's thundering like it's. going to rain and it looks terrible. Uh, and so nobody's there but me. Nobody. nobody's hiking that trail or anything. like that. And uh u. I get on the rock and I say a prayer and. I ask the Lord,

what am I doing here, Father? You know, I you why would you have me come out to. a mountain in freaking North Carolina? I've never been in my life. Uh I mean, what's the point? I I'm not I don't feel. like I'm getting any better. I feel, you. know, still kind of antie. I mean, I. don't see any point to this. There's got. to be a reason you'd send me out here, you know, and and I'm talking to him. I'm talking to the Lord. And then, uh, you know, I start praying and I and I it. hits me. What's What's God's favorite. trait? It's humility. That's his.

favorite trait. He loved Moses. I I know. I know you by name. He told Moses when. Moses wanted to see him. I know you by. name. I will have uh I will show mercy. and compassion on you and he will I will. let my goodness go before you. You know. because Moses like a little kid wanted. to see God. He wanted to see him and. it's in Exodus 33. So uh anyway, but I. I'm. I'm on this rock praying this and I I.

realize Moses was called the most humble. man on earth by God. About the best compliment any human. being can get. And he used Moses, wouldn't you say? I mean, a pretty big. way. And so, uh, so I said, "Humility. Here I am. I'm hiking a 4,500 foot. mountain. I just had knee surgery a. couple of weeks back. This is stupid. This isn't humble. You know, you're. being a jerk." And uh, she said, "I I I.

need to learn humility. I I that's what. this is about." And I said, "Okay, Lord. I get it." you know, and I I felt like, okay, I got it. That's I all this this. whole trip to North Carolina, Da D, you. know, buying airplane tickets I couldn't. afford. Oh, it's here's the reason. And. uh so I start back down that mountain. And I uh I'd gone down. 500 ft away from the the big rock in the. middle of the stream. And I don't know,

maybe more. And it's downhill is harder than going. uphill, you know, for if your knees kind. of screwed up. And you know, I was I'm. having to take these steps and land on. the good foot trying to take pressure. off the knee and and I'm going down and. you know, go over a tree branch. Gives. you a little step on the trail. You've. been on it. And I I I at one point I I. go to step. and I [clears throat] I was frozen. [laughter] I could I couldn't go. anywhere. Now, I've never I've I've told.

this in a church, but I've never I've. never even told this in my church. I've. I've never talked about this because I. know what it sounds like. And you know, and I wouldn't blame anybody for. thinking this guy, he does have combat. potato. You know, he's a total fruit. cake. I wouldn't blame anybody for that. Uh, and I've hesitated. >> I've hesitated to I've never told. anybody. You know, this was 2004 it. happened and uh August 26th and I've.

never told anybody except, you know, my. personal friends and of course I told. them right after I went home, told the. Bible study and told them what happened. and uh but I couldn't move. I was just. just like there was no no more stepping. I was just but I was like sitting in a. park. I mean it wasn't uncomfortable. I. was just you know just just hanging. [laughter] just just kind of hanging. midstep all I mean it wasn't wasn't.

going anywhere front back sideways and I. I [clears throat] mean I I didn't even. have I don't even know what I thought. People have asked me what what you think. and I I don't think I was able to think. I just I mean I just. >> frozen in time almost. didn't know what. I I had. My mind froze along with the. rest of me, I guess. I don't know. I. just I just stood there. Just hung there. midstep. Well, then I was released. How long? I don't. know how long I was here. I mean, I have. no idea. Could have been could have been.

2 seconds. Could have been 20 seconds. I. don't even know. But I was released and. I f now I've now running downhill. I. mean, I fell downhill a little bit. took. those steps and stopped. Jumped around. thinking, first thought, something had. to have held me. [laughter]. There's something behind me. There's. nothing there. There's nothing anywhere. It's it's it's. just dead silent. It's I'm out in the. woods alone. Nobody.

Black clouds rolling over. There's. nobody out there, man. And uh I I it I. realized this this is God. This is this. is Jesus Christ here, man. I I uh so I. fell to my knees. I just fell to my. knees. I said, "What do you want from. me, God?" And I I don't I don't even. know if I said that. I I wrote it down. so I I can show you sometime. But uh. anyway, I I just fell to my knees and I. I think I was What do you want from me,

God? And uh. in an audible voice, an audible voice. If it was inside my head, it sure didn't. sound like it. It sound like. a voice talking to me and and it it. said, "Johnny, get up. Johnny, I want you to walk a little. further with me. If you got a Bible, I'll swear to it.". >> I believe you. >> Yeah. And uh.

I got up. I couldn't say anything. I mean, I was. so overwhelmed. I'd think back at that. moment and I go, God, I wish I could. have asked some qu I wish I could have. said, "Tell me how much you love me or. something, God." You know, something. [laughter] Yeah. Let me hear something. good here. You know, I couldn't say I. just said I said, "Yes, Lord." And I got. up and I started back up that mountain. I would have walked. I would have gone. to Canada. I mean, I was just going to. go until he stopped me. And I went back.

up that mountain. I reached that big. rock in the middle of the storm. I made. it over that, jumped to the other side. The the trail kept on up. I kept going. on up. I I've taken my kids there. I'm taking. my grandkids to this same spot in in. about three weeks. We're going we're. taking my my son and my daughter have. never seen it either. my wife I we've. been back two or three times and.

she could tell you what her feelings. about this. It was uh but anyway I go I. keep going and I'm I mean I'm not. thinking I'm just I'm going to go until. God stops. She I would have kept going. until I fainted. But I finally I come to. this big boulder. on the side of the trail. There's a big. old boulder. Oh, you know, as big as the bottom half of. that whole bar set there. Big and.

somebody has put a a big round plaque. embedded in the boulder. And uh now I've never been I've never. been there in my life. I've never been. in this place in my life. Never been to. Black Mountain in my life. So if you you. know somebody's thinking you knew it was. there or something. Never been there. Never been on this mountain in my life. Never been to Black Plaque Mountain, North Carolina in my life. Montre never. Here's this plaque and it the plaque.

says, "I lift my eyes to the mountains. From where does my help come from? My. help comes from the Lord who made heaven. and earth." I knew. that's what he was leading me to. I I. didn't walk any further. I I fell down. and worshiped. Yeah. Pretty amazing. Uh then I when this was.

over, I went back down off that. mountain. You talk about a spring in your step. I. went down off that mountain feeling. like, "Okay, there's two things going on. here. I really have gone over the edge. and I am crazy. Uh, but I've got to even. if I am, I I had to tell Nancy and the. kids. So, I I get back to that cabin, find my phone, call them up, tell them. the whole thing. I don't know if you. know, she thought I my my husband's gone. crazy. You know, I I don't know what she.

thought. Then I get in my car and I. drive into town and through Black. Mountain, through Montree through Black. Mountain and to where my buddy Tony. Horning lives and he's on his front. porch. and I come out and I'm telling him the. whole and I mean I'm motormouth. Tony, my god, you won't believe what happened. to me. And I start telling him all this. Well, the a friend from our church in. St. Petersburg had just happened in on. Tony and was on the front porch with.

him. So now his name's Gary Ripple and. he was he's the leader of music in our. church. And so I'm now I'm telling these. two guys who both went to my old church. I'm telling them what happened. And uh. and I I don't know what they thought, but Tony told me, "You look like Moses. who'd seen the burning bush, man. Your. face was red. you were. flushed beyond flushed. He says, "Yeah, I could tell something really dramatic. happened to you whether it was that or.

not, whether I believed it or not." But. I he believed me. He's a close friend, so he would believe it. A stranger would. think you're you're out of your freaking. mind. And I don't, like I said, I. wouldn't blame him. Uh I don't know if. I'd believe a guy telling me this story. But anyway, so I go home. Now, I can't. wait to get home and tell Nancy and the. kids and the Bible study about this, but. the more I think about it, I'm going, "How am I going to tell them about this? Am I even supposed to share this? Is. this supposed to be something just. between me and God? I don't, you know, I.

got all these questions. Did it really. happen? Am I really crazy?" But, you. know, you ask, you don't know. And uh so. I said, "God, how do I know this really. happened?" And I'm asking God that. I'm. talking to him. Soon as I get home, I'm. telling Nancy the story all over again. I mean, I'm just just getting out of the. car from the airport, right? And I'm. already telling her the whole story. again. I've told her twice on the phone, and I'm telling her again, and uh she's. patiently listening to me. My my wife is.

very flatlined, which is probably what I need. But I'm. telling the whole thing again, and I'm. thinking, "God, Nancy, where's the. reaction, man? Like, you got to see. reaction here." And so, uh, she's going, "I'm listening. I'm listening." And so, she's listening, but she's she's also. going to the mailbox. And [laughter] I'm think, and I yell at. her. What are you going to the mailbox. for at a time like this? I'm telling. you, the most important moment of my. whole freaking life on planet Earth. You. what? And I'm mad at her now. What are.

you You know, and and she pulls mail out. of the mailbox and she pulls out this. thing and she's looking at the mail and. it's we got this pamphlet. Now, I've. given to this missionary journey, missionary. ventures, missionary ventures. I've. given money to this group over the. years. You know, they they help. missionaries and I I've tried to support. them over the years, but they've never. ever sent me anything. It's one of the. reasons I supported them. They don't. send out a bunch of mailings and crap, you know, never gotten anything from. these guys. today in my mailbox as I'm.

telling Nancy for the third time and. just got home. Here's a thing from. Missionary Ventures. Nancy goes, "Oh, we've never got anything from them. before." And she opens it up and on the. first page it says, "My wife Nancy loves. to shop." And she goes, "Johnny, this is. weird." And there's Psalm 121. >> No way. >> All right, it gets weirder. So now we. have the Bible study. I tell the guys in.

the Bible study this whole miracle, you. know, trying to, you know, getting ready. for anyone who doesn't believe it, think. I, you know, knowing I'm going to sound. crazy and uh already wondering if I'm. supposed to say anything about it. And. so. while I'm telling them the whole story, Chris Pagus, one of Taekwondo. instructors, another taekwondo master, he's been with me for many years. his. dad was wounded in the head or Euima and. one of my books is based on his dad. So.

he is listening. He's a real studious. guy and he's he's listening to this. whole story and he goes, "Donnie, have. you got a copy of your last book here? You know, you the Gunner's Glory book.". And I said, "Yeah, yeah, I I think I got. one in the bedroom. Go." And uh he goes. and gets it, you know, and I'm still. continuing the story with the guys and. He said, he's open. He's searching. He.

goes, "I knew it." He says, "That Bible. verse was in your last book. It's in. it's in your last book, Psalm 121." And. I go, "What? I didn't know. I mean, you. know, I've written the book three or. four years ago. I I you don't you don't. know." And he goes, "Yeah, it's in your. book. It was Mitchell Pa's favorite. Bible verse.". And I said, "Oh my god.". I mean, and I'm thinking, "God, is there.

is that the connection?" Cuz I'm. thinking back because I hadn't thought. about Mitchell Page since he died. I. mean, I you know, you don't think about. those things. I I had I hadn't thought. about the fact that God froze him on. Guadal Canal like he did in this turning. point of the war, you know, and I hadn't. thought about any of that ever since I. wrote it. And here I am. Here I am. going, "Oh my god, is there a. connection?" And then the guys start. talking. A few seconds later, Chris is. going through the book. He goes, "Johnny, here it is again." Mitchell.

Page prayed that verse. when when they were being shelled by the. Japanese ships and he thought they were. going to die and they got blown up but. not killed. He said he and that other. guy prayed Psalm 121. Look, it's on page. 66. gives me the book and I'm going, "Oh, no." And he says clearly, Mitch. says clearly, this was my favorite Bible. verse and and I depended on this verse.

The next day, now I've been asking God. to confirm this so I'm not Tell me I'm. not crazy God. [laughter] And the next. day, I get a book in the mail and some. guy I I don't know where he's some. somewhere out west. He'd written a book and he was a huge. fan of my my books and he he was asking. me to endorse his book. Write a little. blurb, you know, on there and uh you. know, I mean, I was flattered. Why. anybody want a blurb from Johnny Clark,

you could go find somebody famous or. something, you know, but he did and he. sent me this book and he he wrote a nice. letter asking me to do it. And uh so, you know, I didn't even look at it at. first, you know, I I was still caught up. in this miracle and what to make of it. all. And then uh Nancy said something, you know, aren't you even going to look. at it? And I said, "Yeah, yeah, I got I. better look at it." And I, you know, I. looked at it and it was it was based on. it was a World War II. It was about as. it was about World War II. That's all I. remember. And so I opened the first.

page, the first page, Psalm 121. Nancy can confirm it. But uh the first. page, then I went to church that Sunday. What's a song we sing? We sing a song. based on Psalm 121. I I got the hint. You know, I'm not the. quickest guy out there, but if you hit. me enough times, I can finally get it.

[laughter]. And I finally I got the hint, man. And. God was telling me, you might be crazy, but you're not crazy. on this. you you you uh this really. happened. And uh this is the first time. in my life I've ever told anybody that. story. And I'm going to tell you right. now, I fasted and prayed about saying. this story. in front of a million people or. whatever. You know, I I didn't take this. lightly. And I know I they may want to. put me in a looney bin after this, but.

uh. >> I've had something very similar happen. >> I heard some of it. Tell me I cuz I. forgot a lot of it and I heard some of. it. >> Starting this podcast was one of the. biggest leaps of faith I've ever taken. And at the time I had no idea if anybody. would listen, if it would grow, or if it. would turn into what it is today. And. when you build something from scratch, you realize fast how many moving parts.

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today at shopify.comsrs. Go to shopify.comsrs. That's shopify.com/srs. It's a long story, so I'll I've told it. couple of times on here, so I'll say it. But yeah, there was this was two three. two or three years ago and um.

I can't say it was atheist or anything. like that, but I just I I I paid zero. attention to Christ. >> None. And. um this is like when all the. >> there's a lot of well there's always a. lot of [ __ ] going on in the world, right? But the uh the the gender stuff. with kids. was really [ __ ] with my head really. bad. And um and a lot of the child.

predator [ __ ] and sex exploitation and. that and um. >> and stuff that had gone on in. Afghanistan. It was there was a lot of. [ __ ] that was going on that really it. was right after the withdrawal, the. Afghanistan withdrawal. >> I totally get it, Sean. >> And um so I was in a a pretty dark spot. Yeah. >> And um went on a vacation with my wife. to Sedona. and um. I'm pretty emotionless other than anger,

you know. I don't I don't show much. happiness. I don't show much sadness. You'll know when I'm really [ __ ]. pissed off, but that's about it. And um. for whatever reason, I I had a complete. breakdown on the flight there. I was. just [ __ ] crying. And I didn't know. why I was crying. >> Yeah. >> You know, I'm just like, the world is a. [ __ ] [ __ ] place. I hate this place. I. don't even know if I I I wasn't saying I. was suicidal, but I'm I don't even want. to [ __ ] be in this world. I don't. feel like I belong in this world. Like,

>> I don't like eight-year-olds getting. their junk chopped off and changing. sexes. Like, I don't like all these. >> pedophiles. And. >> it's satanic. It's like everywhere I. looked, I'm like, >> it's just darkness. >> Well, especially doing what you do, you're hearing a lot of dark crap. And. you're hearing a lot of satanic crap. >> Yeah. >> And you're under attack because you're. honoring God. I guarantee you, you're. under satanic attack. >> I'm aware now. I wasn't at the time, but.

I'm aware now. And um. so we go this whole week. It's a [ __ ]. vacation. It just [ __ ] sucks. my best. friend's there with his wife supposed to. be having a great time. Uh I had met. this other seal and I don't have a lot. of friends. I had met this other seal. here in Franklin who was a very. successful businessman and and uh our. relationship was developing quickly uh. because he he didn't need anything from.

me and I didn't need anything from him. and and we could just be with each other. and his friendship. >> Yeah. And uh that doesn't come around. often, you know. seems like the older. you get, the harder it is to find. And um and I don't relate with very many. people that haven't been to combat or. don't run a business or, you know what I. mean? I just don't have a lot in common. with a lot of people. It's at least it. seemed like that at the time. So, he had. just died. and um so we go through this week and.

just more shit's happening, more stuff, you know, I'm seeing and. smoking weed, telling my the last thing I saw was I. saw this country music artist that came. out who I respected. I thought was a. person of God. And turns out she she's. like, "Well, I think that um drag queens. should be able to shake their dick in. little kids faces." [clears throat]. And I'm like, "Fuck you." Like, I did.

not want to see that. And um totally. just threw me off course. >> And then which I was already off course. So I told my wife, I'm like, "We got to. go on a [ __ ] we I have to go on a. hike." So I. down a join as fast as I can. We go on. this hike. This is embarrassing, but I was out. there searching for something. I had. heard that Sedona has all this these. energy vortexes. >> Yeah. >> And [laughter] Yeah. Whatever. Right.

Like weird whatever. And I was into. crystals. I was looking at all kinds of. [ __ ] Just trying to find some [ __ ]. peace. >> Yeah. >> And looking in all the wrong places, right? So we hiked this [ __ ] stupid. crystal. >> Most people have. >> Yeah. this [laughter] this mountain and. I'm like, "We're going to feel. something. We're going to take this. [ __ ] crystal up to this energy vortex. and I'm going to feel something." We get. up there. I don't feel [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> And uh I'm like, "Fuck this stupid. crystal and this dumb vortex.".

And I'm like, "Let's just go home." You. know, the pot did not help at all. And we're hiking down this [ __ ]. mountain. And like I'm starting to have. like this internal conversation in my. head and uh I'm I'm like. what the [ __ ] is wrong with you, Sean? Like I'm I'm like all these kids that. are getting mutilated. Everybody seems to be for this [ __ ]. except for me. What? What? Maybe I'm the. [ __ ] up one. Maybe you're the [ __ ].

up one, Sean. Maybe eight-year-olds. should be able to change sex and. >> you know, have their parents [ __ ]. throw the dress on the kid. All this. [ __ ] And I'm like, what are you worried. about all these [ __ ] pedophiles? Maybe like maybe you're the one that's. [ __ ] up, Sean. Maybe maybe you. shouldn't be standing up. >> Of course, you know, now that's the Holy. Spirit. >> But this, like I said, this is an. internal battle. >> cuz I could not make sense of anything. that I was seeing. Nothing outside of my. family unit made any [ __ ] sense to me.

at all. >> Yeah. >> How can like how can politicians not be. going after pedophiles? How can this be? How like how is this even [ __ ] real? And I'm And so I started like my mind. started, like I said, I'm having this. internal battle like maybe Sean, you're. the [ __ ] up one. You shouldn't be. standing up for kids. You shouldn't be. worried about [ __ ] China. You. shouldn't be worried about. people dressed in dra men in bikinis and. whatever they're wearing like shaking.

their dick in front of your. two-year-old's face. That's totally. normal, Sean. Yeah, but. >> what are you worried about? >> Everybody, every mainstream media. outlet, every [ __ ] magazine, every. movie, every [ __ ] Hollywood thing, like it's just all like this is the way. >> Yeah. >> And I felt like I felt like I was the. only one. >> that was like. >> saying anything about this [ __ ] you. know? Especially when I saw the [ __ ]. country music artist. I was like, whoa. Like, you're over here spouting Bible.

quotes and all this other [ __ ] [ __ ]. you. Oh, [ __ ] you, [ __ ] Yeah. And um. been disappointed in a dude. Like, what. the [ __ ] Of. >> course, then they got like some huge. [ __ ] TV show. Of course, they. probably told her to say it and they're. like, "Hey, say this and then we'll. reward you." Yeah. And so, sure as [ __ ]. she's like [ __ ] huge in TV again. >> I know. You know, >> I I I think I even know who you're. talking about. >> Yeah. Who cares? Doesn't matter. >> Doesn't [ __ ] matter. Doesn't even. [ __ ] matter who it is because it's a. nobody. Yeah. >> It's a [ __ ] lying piece of [ __ ].

Anyways, um. so I'm coming down this mountain and I'm. having this internal battle and it felt. like there towards the end of the hike. when we got back to the resort. I'm like. it it felt like it was a battle for my. soul. I really I swear to God that's how. it felt. >> I I hear you. >> I walk through this gate and you know we. have similar backgrounds. you you don't. go to bed without a KBAR and a 45. And.

I'm sure you're very aware. You probably. don't like sitting with your back to the. door. You know what I mean? I'm the same. way. I pay attention to security and. [ __ ] like that. And because of the show, a lot of the guys at this um at this. gate, these armed guards, they all. listen to my show. >> Yeah. >> And they're all like, you know, and so. I'd interact with them and and we had. been there all weeks and like I said, I. pay attention. And I see these. I recognize them all. You know what I. mean? When I'm coming through the Hey, what's up Johnny? How you doing? You.

know, last night we're there. We're walking. through the gate and there's this old. man, Vietnam bed, uh Air Force guy. Don't hold it against him. And uh he. starts trying to talk to me and I'm. like, man, I've never seen this guy. before. and I'm not in the mood to talk. I sure. as [ __ ] don't want to talk about my. [ __ ] podcast or anything like that. And so I'm I'm I'm nice and polite, but. I'm I'm giving body language like, "Dad,

I just don't want to talk right now.". So, you know, I I refuse to like square. up to him and actually have a. conversation. I'm like, "Oh, nice to. meet you." You know, I'm walking away. looking at him over my shoulder. Of. course, my wife stops, talks to him, and. I'm like, "Fuck.". So I turn around and I square up to him. and he looks at me and he read my mind. from front to back. I had not vocalized. any of this [ __ ] Nothing.

And he goes he's like all these kids. you're worried about. He's like that's not your battle, man. That is not your battle. And all the. [ __ ] you're worried about with China and. that that's not your battle either. and. all this stuff, you know, and I I after. like. >> wow. >> after the first thing it was a he said. all this stuff that's going on with kids. right now is not your battle. >> Wow. >> And then my mind went blank. I just. caught like little glimpses cuz I was. like how the [ __ ] does this guy know I'm.

talking like what is happening? This. he's inside my [ __ ] head right now. and it scared the [ __ ] out of me. and. whatever we wrap up. He's quit talking. This is only maybe I don't know 30 kind. of like you. I don't know how much. [ __ ] time has passed. I'm freaking. out. I'm like. >> I would. >> Why the [ __ ] are you in my head? And how. are you in my head? And we're walking. So we we're walking away and I look at. my wife and I said, "Holy [ __ ] I think.

that's [ __ ] God like talking to me.". And she looked at me and she goes, "Yeah, no [ __ ] Sean." She's like, "God's always been around you. you just. don't make time to let him in. >> Oh, >> and I was like, >> beautiful. >> What's going on? So, keep go keeps. getting weirder just like here. >> I know. >> And uh. >> I'm remembering some of it, but but I. forgot. >> So, my best friend uh in the world um.

was this guy Gabe Accardi and uh he was. a SEAL. We contracted together at CIA. We did a lot of [ __ ] down in Colombia. off, you know, not working, having a lot. of doing a lot of debaucherous [ __ ] down. there. Anyways, uh Gabe um succumbed to. addiction. He had he he was um had some. really bad addictions uh when he left. the agency and I talked him into leaving.

and I I wanted to help him. I mean, I. was all [ __ ] up, too. Anyways, whatever. Um I was helping him get over. his addiction. He didn't wind up making. it. But [clears throat] Gabe was always. known as a protector. He's a hockey. player and enforcer on the hockey team. Uh showed up to the SEAL teams. Baddest [ __ ] in every one of his. platoon. Everybody knew if you're in. trouble, Gab's going to [ __ ] be there. to bail you out one way or another. You.

know, went to the agency reputation. followed him there. Everybody knew it. And um. anyways, we get to this resort all week. there's this guy identical like. identical same jawline, same build. Gabe. was jacked. This guy's jacked like. same brow, everything like could have. been like not identical but could have. been his identical twin. And I I.

remember like first thing when we did. when we saw when we roll up to the. resort, I'm like, "That guy looks like. [ __ ] Gabe." He even [ __ ] walks. like Gabe. And I'm in a vulnerable spot. Everywhere we go throughout this week, this [ __ ] guy is around. We go out in. town, this dude's out in town. We go on. a hike, he's coming back from a hike. We're at the pool, he's at the [ __ ]. pool. And and Katie and I both are like, "This shit's weird." [laughter] you.

know, and my buddy Dan had just died. So I'm Katie's like, "That's Gabe. He's. here. You're in a weird spot. You're in. a vulnerable spot right now." She's been. telling me this [ __ ] all week. I'm like, "Yeah, whatever." Uh, so we go from the gate, it's like maybe. a one minute walk to the this bungalow. we're staying in, which is like a. duplex. And we go in to open our door, unlock. the door, and this [ __ ] guy.

winds up being the he's staying across. the way from us. And I'm like, what the [ __ ] That [ __ ] guy is in. he's in the other half of the building. Like, there's only two rooms here. What. the what's the coincidence of that. happen? >> Plus him being everywhere we're at. >> Wow. And Katie looks at me again and. she's like, "I [ __ ] told you." She. doesn't cuss. I told you. We get in the.

room. I'd have another meltdown. I'm like, "What? What's happening? What the [ __ ]. is going on?" You know? I thought like I. thought this God is like, "What is h. what is [ __ ] what's going on?" You. know, and then I'm uh getting emotional. again. And like I said, I don't really. show much emotion. And uh so we talk it. out and. she's like, "How how can you keep saying.

you can't believe it? It's happening. right in front of you." I'm like, "I. can't believe this is happening." She's. like, "What do you mean you can't. believe it? It's right in front of your. face, Sean.". >> Yeah. [sighs and gasps]. >> My phone dings in the middle of this. [clears throat]. And um so we wrap up the conversation. I. go look at the my phone to see who. texted me. And it's Dan Surillo's daughter who. doesn't who's my friend that just died. who doesn't have my number. Must have dug it out of her of her dad's.

phone. And. I could read it to you, but I'll. summarize it. It basically says, "Hey. Sean, I walked into my dad's gun room. for the first time since he'd passed, and the whole room came alive.". And he. He grabbed me and said that I should. reach out to you because you had become. his new best friend and he wants you to.

know that he loves you just the way that. you are. And I was like, man, >> what. is happening? >> Yeah, >> three things. Then I get home. and I'm off. I'm obviously like, "Okay, holy shit." Like, "God is real. I've been looking for. answers in all the wrong places." So, I. call this guy up um who's who's.

been a huge inspiration and and a bit of. a mentor in my spiritual journey. His. name's Eddie Penny. and uh he came on. and gave he's a uh. uh he's a CO2 development group guy and. uh shared his testimony with me on the. show and I was it was so powerful I said. this has to this has to be like we're. releasing this on Christmas ever since. that day probably for a year every. single person that has come on my show.

has brought up their faith in Jesus. Christ just like you did like that. I. didn't know that was going to happen. that you were going to bring this up and. Eddie like full one of the most powerful. podcasts I've ever done if not the most. powerful one. It it it. >> it it obviously made a very serious. impression on me. >> Isn't it fun when God starts working in. your life? And yeah, I mean it's just. it's just fun to go, he's real. So, I.

call him up. and I'm talking to him like at midnight. Like I start a campfire at my house and. I'm like, "Eddie, I got to talk to you. about some shit." And uh he's like, "What is it?" You know, start talking to. him, telling him what I just told you. And he goes, "Sean," he goes, "A lot of. people have been praying for this to. happen." And that freaked me out. I'm. like, "What? What? Huh? What do you mean. people are praying that? Like what? Like.

this sounds like conversations that are. happening behind my back that you guys. have plans for me that I don't know. about. And he's like, I just want you to. know that. And um. then he starts talking to me about. guardian angels and [ __ ] like that. I'm. like, all right. And spiritual warfare. and all these things. I'm super tuned. into it. So then I go to work the next. day. and uh. after the campfire, remember midnight, I.

have a meeting at noon with my IT guy. who's like a super devout Catholic. And. I grew up Catholic, but I don't, like I. said, I don't at this at this point in. time, I I pretty sure if I step foot in. church, I'm probably going to [laughter]. disintegrate. But uh so I think we're. going to talk about it [ __ ] and he. starts telling me he doesn't even know. anything yet and he starts telling me. about guardian angels for whatever.

reason. >> Wow. >> And how you you know they knew you. before you were ever even born and. they're with you and they're assigned to. you and D. and that meeting happened at noon. So. then I take a late lunch. and drive back home. I want to have. lunch with my wife and kid. And um. on the way back to work, I tell Katie. about all this [ __ ] I'm driving back to. work and.

my odometer, like the mileage left to. empty, 444 miles. Look at the clock. It's 4:44 in the afternoon. four hours. and 44 minutes after my meeting with. Guardian uh my meeting with Adam, my I. my old IT guy about Guardian Angels, who. I had just talked to Eddie Penny about. Guardian Angels. I call up uh one of my. guys here. I say, just so I don't.

forget, I say, "Hey, Google the meeting. at 4:44." I'm on my way back. Get back. to the office. He's standing there. He. opens up Google. Doesn't have any idea what I'm talking. about. You Google this [ __ ] yourself. 444 is means your guardian angels want. you to know that they're watching out. for you. I want to high five. [laughter]. Yeah. No. God, come on. Come on. It's.

just wonderful. And it it's fun to know. he's real, you know? It's it he's real. I mean, he's invested in you and he. knows you by name. That that one's all. it's all through the Bible. You know, he. he knows every hair on your head. He. knows your name. He knows the day the. second you're going to die. He knew the. day and the second you were born. So, you know, worrying about I've had so. many close calls. I mean, I I mean, even.

in civilian life, I had a Roman candle. jumping out of a planes. [laughter]. I had a Roman candle. Didn't know it. Just I thought I was going slow. I was. going to die. And uh [laughter]. and it opened by itself. It just. suddenly before I hit the ground, it. went and sh I shot up saved again. I. you you remember that that character uh. in the old cartoons uh pistol P I where.

they shoot bullet holes all around the. guy's head. Well, I mean I should be dead so many. times. And guardian angels are real. I'm. convinced of it. But we walked I walked. into a an ambush. and we got they they opened up machine. guns opened up on us and I went to hit. the dirt but it was pitch black. We're. out in the jungle, you know. I don't. know where I am. And I I hit a bank, an. embankment, and I just hit this. embankment, knock knock my helmet off,

and I'm just up against the embankment. And everybody's shooting at me, [laughter]. and my and I had I got burned from all. the phosphorescent tips on the tracer. rounds. It burn it burned me. It burned. all the way down my neck. It went down. to my shirt. It burned all around my. burned my face, my nose. >> Wow. >> Never got a scratch. I never got didn't. get a scratch. >> I mean, I've I just I have countless. examples of that exact same thing. I. mean, that door hinge that there's a.

frame door hinge right there. That's. from a guy that was at Delta. His name's. Kyle Morgan. >> and he. did he he was in Mali, Africa. Huge terrorist attack at the Rison Blue. This was supposed to be like a a booze. cruise for him. like he had seen a lot. of [ __ ] Delta's like, "Hey, go do a go. do this liaison mission and [ __ ]. Molly and I don't know,

have a good time. Sleep with some state. department [ __ ] or I don't know, you. know, like just take a break." And so. he's down there having a good time, whatever, doing his liaison gig. Al-Shabaab hits this hotel. He responds with two other guys. They. [ __ ] out. This he he super descriptive. account. I mean, he talks about he. enters the Radison Blue. First thing he.

sees is [ __ ] dead bodies in an. elevator shaft and the elevator doors. are open and closing. You know, there's. fires all over the [ __ ] place. There's terrorists running around. killing [ __ ] people. And he's a a one. man. He's one man in a [ __ ] hotel, a. massive hotel, like going door to door, saving people from burning to death, saving like pulling people out of their. hotel room all by himself. I can't. remember how long it was, like 12 hours. or 16 hours of some [ __ ] He's doing.

this. Everybody Everybody else is a. [ __ ] [ __ ] to include like the head. of state, you know, that's there. He's. [ __ ] eating cheese balls out of his. belly button cuz he's a [ __ ] [ __ ]. you know? Yeah. I mean, you know the. types. and um the feds and uh. so at the very end of this [ __ ] he. corners these al-Shabaab guys at the top. of a st well he he clears up a stairwell. I guess you can't say he cornered him. they're shooting down at him damn near.

point blank. and the [ __ ] went all around his body. and then he throws up a concussion. grenade discombobulates him runs up you. finishes him off, rips the door off the. wall, and that's the door hinge that was. holding the [ __ ] door up. >> Wow. >> But I mean, it's, you know, it's and he. same thing. He cries. >> Yeah. you know, lots of guys. Eddie. Penny, he's got another he's he's got. the guy I was just telling you about. that's kind of a spiritual mentor for me.

or or a. he's got a similar situation where I. it's just like where I can't remember. exactly but like a voice told him like. don't [ __ ] move and then the building. gets leveled. I mean it's just time and. time and time again. >> Yeah. You're not going to hear this. stuff die until God says so. >> He knows the exact second. He knows a. and there's some confidence to take in. that that vi that Bible verse that uh.

Proverbs 35 and 6 it uh you know trust. in the Lord with all your heart and do. not lean on your own understanding when. when I can do that when I when I try to. figure out you know I go through that. China worrying about China and worrying. about I worry worry worry you know and. what is fret not thyself we're told. don't do it to yourself be anxious for. nothing he tells tells us all through. scripture, quit doing that because it's. it's a waste of energy. >> You know that that he's in charge,

>> you know, trust in the Lord with all. your heart and he will direct your path. I I'm I mean it's always a battle. because I mean guys like you and me uh. you know we believe in doing things and. getting it done, you know, go. >> and we're contingency planners. >> Yeah. Right. >> What if this happens? Then we're doing. this. What if that goes to [ __ ] Then. we're doing that. It goes, >> you know, >> I don't think there's anything wrong. with that. I I just think as as God's.

kids, >> we got to we got to be careful where we. we put too much faith in our own trust. not your own our own understanding. >> and uh you know, don't lean on your own. understanding. when I have any conflict. in my own thinking about. >> about Israel, about China, about. whatever it is. I can go back to the word now and this. is something that I think Christians. have this huge advantage over the world. where we can kind of take the pressure.

off ourselves even in this Iran thing. right now. I know that in Ezekiel 38 39. I know the Bible says clearly uh it. gives us the play the playbyplay. Have. you ever read that that do you know that. what I'm talking about it it gives us. the playbyplay of a final big shootout. and who the players are. Uh, Iran will become allies with Russia, Libya, um, Turkey,

Ukraine, and Arab peoples. It's in Ezekiel 38. They will come against Israel. Israel. will stand alone. They're going to have. no allies. And I So, they're going to. come against Israel. Israel will have no. allies. and in this this big future. shootout and I'm sure you know you you. have Fleece Stroble on here and you got. guys who know this 10 times better than. than I do. But uh but in my own little. studies of of the Bible, you know, it.

gives me this. I know we're not going to knock off. Iran. I know we're not Don't get me. wrong, I think we're going to decimate. them and maybe knock them down a couple. of pegs and they're not going to be a. problem for a little bit and I think. that's I'm all for it. But I know we. don't get rid of them because scripture. says they're going to be around. They're. going to come against Israel with. Russia, with Turkey, with uh Ukraine, with Libya, and anyway, I know that's. got to happen. It's prophecy. It's got.

to happen. Every prophecy real, it comes. true. >> All of them. So, this is going to happen. and and I know it's going to happen. So, every time I find myself, you know, getting a little upset about this, you. know, why why aren't we doing this? Why. don't we take Car Island? You know, why. don't we do that? You know, I'm thinking. that way. I'm thinking militarily. I'm. thinking like a Marine. Uh I know I'm. wasting energy because the Lord has this. all planned out. I this is going to. happen. Everything's going to happen. with or without Johnny Clark. Although I.

know I pray for it. There's I know I'm. commanded to pray about it. And uh but I. know that in the end, Israel is going to. stand alone. And I I I mean, you can see. it happening. the whole world will. basically abandon little Israel. >> It's Bible prophecy. And when when Iran. and Russia and all of these nations, they're going to be destroyed. They're. they're going to die on the mountains of. Israel. They're going to get destroyed. And it said even talks about the.

coastlands of of Russia, you know, uh. fire falling on the coast. They're going. to they're going to get no more Russia. No more Russian army. That that's going. to be gone. Iran's going to be gone. But. we ain't going to do it. Uh God's going. to do it. But even in that, twothirds of. the Jews are going to get killed. >> So God's going to save that third. But. they're going to know they were saved by. God, not the USA. >> Mhm. That's the way I understand it, too. >> I think a little differently on you. [laughter] than the Iran war.

>> Yeah. But I mean, and but the way that I. interpret that is that I mean, the Jews. did kill Jesus, and they've always. turned their back on God. And the way. that I understand this is that God is. going to allow them to be [ __ ]. decimated. And they're going, he is. going to unveil all of the [ __ ]. corruption that is going on inside of. Israel. And then when Christ comes back, the remaining Jews will accept Jesus. Christ and they will go to heaven. And.

that's basically I don't think Israel is. a [ __ ] good guy in this. >> I I that's it. Oh, I I whether No, I. don't I don't think they're necessarily. a good guy. I know they're the chosen. people. I know that I know. >> we're the chosen people. >> I know that God is going to uh God's. going to take care of these things. Not. not us, not any human force. That the. Lord's going to take care of it. And. yeah, they are the remaining Jews that. survive this are going to come to.

Christ. They're going to realize Jesus. Christ was the Messiah. They're they're. going to they're going to come to that. decision, but uh but in the meantime, nothing's going to stop this stuff from. happening. You know, nothing my worrying. about it u nothing's going to stop it. It's it's got to happen. It's Bible. prophecy. >> Yeah. Let let me tell you about Guns Up. The miracle with Guns Up. >> Okay. >> Okay. it getting published. I I told you like you know at first I. was an angry mess and uh I was working.

as a mailman and teaching martial arts. at the University of South Florida at. night and so I was working two jobs. doing okay. It's like that's just I mean. can you imagine how many people if they. knew what the [ __ ] mailman was. capable of? [laughter]. >> So well so I so I uh well I was really. blessed Sean. I mean, you know, in. Okinawa, I I by accident, I end up I. trained with uh Grandmaster Shimabuku,

really famous old Okinawan. I didn't. know who he was. He was just another. Okinawan to me. But I was ordered out in. the vil. We had a lieutenant ahead of. his time. He ordered guys with certain. wounds to go into the vill martial arts. from this this little Okonowan guy. And. it ends up being Grandmaster Shimabuku. He was an amazing character. Uh then I. come home there. I can't find a decent. okonowan school and I switch over to. taekwondo and I and I I mean by accident. my old neighbor was teaching uh he was a.

language expert for the army in the in. Thai Thailand. He met and trained with. Grandmaster Park in Thailand because the. king of Thailand asked him to come there. and train the Thai people taekwond do. So this Don Kun Park that became my. grandmaster that I trained with for the. last 50 years. He uh he ended up being. the you know Olympic coach, the 1992. Olympic coach. He's he's uh in the. Korean Hall of Fame. He was just voted.

by the nation of Korea as the greatest. uh Korean master in Korean history. Uh. he had over 280 fights and never lost. He's an amazing little guy. I I really. really admire him. And now my wife just. showed me a thing of him. He's washing. people's feet as a missionary. >> Wow. >> In Guatemala. I think it's Guatemala. Yeah. He's. I I you know, I just love this guy. And. and we've been together forever. We've. had some adventures. [laughter] But uh.

but I Yeah. So anyway, I lucked out and. getting to train with some some great. men and I'm I'm just another student. But but I lost I lost both those jobs. when my back uh went out on me and I. hurt that back. I was we were coming in. on a hot LZ uh the machine guns the last. one off the chopper. You know when the. old uh CH the. >> 46s, you know, with the back ramp down. little round.

>> 46es back then. >> You run off the back ramp. Well, you. know, they hover and guys run off the. little back ramp and the front of it. hovers because we were under fire. And. uh so all the guys got off and me and. Chan are the last two trying to get to. that ramp and the pilot got killed and. the p the chopper went out of control. and the co-pilot got control of it. But. we're swirling like this throwing us all. over the place inside the chopper and I. got all that gear, you know, 25lb M60. and on and on. So Chan got off. Now I'm.

I don't know how high up in the air, but. he finally gains control of the thing. and I know I've got to I got to get with. the guys you and I and I I don't even. know how high up I run off that ramp. I. landed like an anchor, but I I hit mushy. swampy stuff and uh sank down deep into. it and uh didn't die another time. I. should have died. and uh and everybody's.

shooting at me and they can't get me out. of the mud. [laughter]. Anyway, I uh I came out of it fine, but. that back was never quite the same. And. it finally went and when it went uh now. I had to find a way to make a living. And that's when Nancy said, "You need to. write some of your stories from, you. know, Vietnam and and fight the liberal. media who are lying about what the guys. did over there." And you get so angry. about it. You you can't you can't beat. everybody up. you got to, you know,

fight back a smart way and. >> set the record straight. >> Yeah. And that's what I tried to do and. but that book was rejected by every. publisher from New York to California. for four years. I I I told you how I. learned it, how I wrote it. I kept. taking the same writing class over and. over and over. Well, my writing. professors at St. Pete College thought. it was the best war book they ever read. They were sure it's going to, you know, it's going to get published here. And. they'd give me all these people to send. it to. rejected by everybody. I mean, I could.

you couldn't there was very few. publishers that I hadn't sent it to. I. don't know if there's any. And uh so in. about four years into this, Nancy and I. started a Bible study class at my. pastor's house. And we'd have these. memory verses at the end, you know, and. you pray for everybody's needs. You. know, there's people fighting cancer, people out of work, and d. uh and Nancy one time, she goes, "I want. prayer for Johnny's book to get. published." Well, I've got all these. four-letter words in this book. I mean,

I wrote it to be non-fiction. I didn't know how I could write the. dialogue of Marines in combat without. all the words we used. And I So, I did. well, you know, now um I want my kids to. know the truth, but I didn't want my. kids to hear all that or read that. language. I didn't just didn't want. them. And I didn't I I started. realizing, you know, I I don't feel. comfortable. And the Holy Spirit was. really convicting me. And so anyway, one. of the Bible verses that sent me over.

the edge was for those who honor God, God will honor. And those who despise. the Lord will be held in little esteem. Well, for those who honor God, God will. honor. That hit me. That that really hit. me. And you know how you have one verse. that just kind of really gets you? That. one got me. convicted me so bad. I. finally go to the my pastor. I said, "Hey, I I'm wanting to crawl in a hole. every time the prayer group prays for my. B book to get published yet. If nobody's.

read it, none of these people have read. this thing." And so I I gave it to him. I said, "Read it." And uh he he did this. thing's really vivid and you know, it's. got a lot and da da da. And I said, "Well, should I rewrite it? Take all the. words out." He goes, "Oh, no. That's. between you and God. I'm not touching. that one. So I go to my writing. professors. They go, "Johnny, if you. rewrite Guns Up, it's going to sound. like Howdy Duty joins the Marine Corps.

You You can't Everybody knows Marines. don't talk like, you know, they're not. they're going to use the F-word all the. time. They're going to And so I I said, "Well, I can't I can't stand it. It's. not getting published anyway. It's gone. nowhere in four over four years. I can't pray about it anymore because. I'm so convicted. I'm going to do it. So, I sat down, took six months. I took. all the language out of the book, rewrote the thing. Uh, but it's the same. war, same stories. I just took the.

language out. And what I discovered is. it made me maybe a better writer. You. know, it's easy to describe anger with a. quick four-letter word. >> This probably would have been twice as. long with all those words. [laughter]. Well, maybe maybe. So, I took I took all the language out. And the day I finished that rewrite, Nancy and I I I got a bottle of. champagne, popped a champagne, and said, "Nancy, anchors off my back. I I pray about the.

book getting published without I'm done. with it." And the next morning, I get a. call from uh Soldier of Fortune. magazine, and uh they said, "Oh, is this. Mr. Clark?" D we we've got this uh we. got this story uh you sent us and we. want to publish it. I had never had. anything published. So I I said, "What. story? I never sent you a story." And. they go, "Yeah, you know, you sent us a. story, didn't you? You about Troy Bridge.

out of a book called Guns Up." And I. said, "Well, yeah, that's my I wrote. that." And then then he says he goes I. said, "Well, wait a minute. When did I. send you this?" And he goes, "Um, let me. see." Oh, he sent it to us four years. ago. [laughter] And I go, "What? Why are. you just now finding it?" He goes, "I. don't know. It just turned up in our. slush pile.". Two days later, Eagle magazine calls. It's the exact same story. >> Whoa. >> And I say the exact same thing. Why now?

Where? How? Why four years late? And he. he goes, "Oh, I can't answer that. It. just turned up in our slush pile." Then. American Legion magazine called Holy. Cow. >> It's the exact same story. And there was. a fourth one. >> Okay, go ahead and tell me luck. bologoney. I had honored God and now God. was honoring me. So I sent the book out. again. And I, you know, I started to. send it out to publishers again. Within. one month, this book that had been. rejected by every publisher in New York,

North Carolina, California, everywhere I. could find a publisher, within one month, nine publishers now. wanted the book. What? >> And the one that bought it was Random. House, biggest publisher in the world. Now they want this book. So, I get a. phone call from Pam Strickler, the head. of she was the senior editor at Random. House at Valentine Books. And she uh she. goes uh so I say well listen Mr. Clark. you know we love this book we want this. book and uh and I said well I'm thrilled.

but I said why now? I mean why do why do. you want it now? And she said what is. what do you mean? And I said well I had. wallpaper this is something the writing. teachers told me to do to keep up your. spirits. My whole I I my writing office. uh once I had we had our second kid. I. knocked a hole in our roof of our of our. two-bedroom, one bath house. And I built. a conning tower on top. It was basically. a conning tower with little stairs going. up to it. A real thrill with Nancy. Did.

did a lot for our living room. [laughter] But that was my that was my. writing room. Well, I wallpapered my. writing room with rejection notices. >> Are you serious? >> I'm serious. The whole wallpaper. I had. rejections from everybody. And uh and I. had grown to know. I could tell when. somebody actually read it or when it was. just a stamp, you know, no thanks. She I. had hers there and I said, "Pam. Strickler." And she goes, "Yes." And I. said, "I have your rejection letter.

right here." And I said, "You actually. read this thing. I can tell." And I read. it to her. And she goes, "Oh, I did read. that book. I remember." And I said, "Well, that was just a year ago." Said, "Why do you want it now? Why do you. think it's so great now?" I said, "Is it. because I took all the cuss words out?". And she said, "You mean there's no. profanity in this book?" And I said, "No, I none." And she goes, "Mr. Clark, that's incredible. All my readers have. read this book and loved it." She said,

"All my junior editors have read this. book. I've read this book. No one at. Random House. recognized that there's no profanity in. that book." And I said, "No, none." And. she goes, "That's incredible." She goes, "We've never heard of a Vietnam War book. without the propan." [laughter] And I I. said, 'Well, yeah. I said, so we have. now. And she goes, she said, gosh, well, we we we want this book. And I said, it's yours. It's great. You're the.

biggest publisher in the world, please. And she says, uh, she says, but you're. going to have to work with us some. And. I, you know, I figured rewrites, I don't. know, you know, big. I said, well, sure. and she goes, "Uh, look, uh, no one's. going to believe a Vietnam War book. without profanity." She goes, "We're. going to need you to put some profanity. back in this book." [laughter]. >> So, I said, "Oh, Satan, you are so good. I don't publish anything for my whole. life. Now, I got the biggest publisher. in the world if I will put the cuss.

words back in." And I I Yeah, you know, temptation. I Yeah, >> you turned them down. >> Oh, you bet. No way. Are you kidding? After all, I I told her you two chances, Pam. Slim and none. It a It never. happened. And uh she goes, "Well, okay.". And she called me back a little bit. later and they bought it anyway. It's. now been in print for 42 years. It's. been published in Lithuania. It's it I.

get I get email from Lithuanian. soldiers. One in particular stands out, but this Lithuanian soldier sends me an. email saying uh that all his unitive. reading reading this book and he goes, "Mr. Clark, I just had to tell you that we think. this is the greatest war book that God. ever wrote.". >> Whoa. Wow. >> I was I I mean, come on. I I don't even. feel like I had anything to do with this. book, honestly. I feel like this is, you.

know, it's been on autopilot with God. from day one, but I I don't uh the. book's a miracle. It just it's a. miracle. It just keeps going and going. 42 years and and uh and now, you know, I. mean, crazy things, the stories that. come out of it. I just I could go on. forever, but crazy stories. We had a kid. named uh Frank Burrus. He a great kid. He died uh and and we got hit. He died,

but he didn't die right away. He stayed. We stayed with him all night. We didn't. even know how bad he was hit. He had. some wounds we couldn't see. It's black. And Corman didn't find him, but patched. the wounds he found. But he uh. he he carried a picture of his little. redheaded daughter. He had a he had a. baby he'd never seen. And Frank Burus uh. was from St. hate. He went to the same. high school as my wife. I never knew.

him, but. >> u but he he had this baby picture. He. carried in his helmet cuz you had to put. it in your lining of your helmet to keep. it dry. The long story short is this, that. picture always stayed up here, you know, and he had never seen that baby. He. wanted to go home so bad. Went to see. his baby. Well, he died that night. We. couldn't get a medevac. Next day, the. 101st uh cal or the first cal or the. 101st airborne, I forgot, but an army. unit. The skies dark with choppers.

bringing them a noon meal. We can't get. a medevac and uh bitter, you know. I. mean, this is during Vietnam. We only. got handme-downs. You and you know the. story behind that. The Marine Corps had. to stay. If we're going to be defunct, Truman was going to get rid of the. Marine Corps. And the only way we stayed. Marine Corps was to prove we could keep. a guy a Marine in the field for a third. the cost of the army. And that's how the. Marines stayed the Marine Corps.

>> Yeah. He was. great stories about that that these old. these old China hands old China Marines. told me it incredible stories, man. These guys were a hoot. But yeah, so. Frank Burrus said I wrote that story in. there, but I didn't have Frank's real. name. I forgot what I called him. U but. I didn't know anybody. We didn't know. each other's names, you know. And uh but. I knew him. I mean, I knew him like I. know you, but I I didn't know his name.

Anyway, he uh. 30. 30 years later, maybe more, maybe 35. years later, I I hear from this girl. and she she sends me a picture. She gets. my email and then she gets my address. and she sent me an email. I contact her. back. She said, "I think my dad died in. Nam with you." And uh it's Frank Bur. It's Baby Red. That's what we called.

her, Baby Red. because she had bushy red. hair. She had that same picture and she. sent me a blowup of it. and it was it it she had discovered how. her dad died reading that book. But it. just it doesn't stop. I mean it goes on. and on and on. I mean the stories that. God turns up out of this and it gave her. some peace. Her mom told me, you know, that she needed it so bad that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Anyway, it the book's the book's a.

flatout miracle. >> That's amazing. >> Yeah, it is. It's a miracle. I I don't. have much to do with it. I just sit back. and marvel. [snorts]. Pretty cool. [laughter]. Wow. But I mean, that had to just. hit like a ton of bricks. >> I'm sorry. What? I mean, just to be. connected with her. >> Oh, yeah. I know. Yeah. Yeah. family members, you know, that.

Frank Burrus's brother has contacted me. and I, you know, uh, he didn't know how. he died and. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, >> how'd you meet your wife? >> Uh, a blind date. >> A blind date. >> Yeah. Yeah. A blind date. >> [snorts]. >> Uh I was uh. that nom vet that they were a little. concerned about [laughter]. and uh so they didn't uh yeah was it was.

her best friend and uh a guy that I went. to high school with came over you know. they're trying to set me up you know I. was maybe spending too much time alone. they thought you know D well they they. come over and they her her best friend. had take had stolen her license to show. me her picture. Just said, "Well, I took. one I took one look at this license and. I go, "Yeah, no thanks. We'll [laughter]. skip this one." And she they go, "No,

no, no. She's really beautiful." And I I. Yeah, thanks anyway. No, no, she's hot. And now Terry, the guy is telling me, "No, no, I wouldn't I wouldn't lead you. all. She and he go, "She lives right. around the corner down here, you know, just just about block and a half away. from you." And I said, "Well, where?" I. mean, oh, around the corner. And I said, "She's got black hair." I said, "Wait a.

minute. Does does she have a little. brown Toyota?" And uh she goes, "Yeah.". And I said, "Does she does she wash her. car in a bikini out front sometimes?". [laughter] Oh, >> and they I go, "Well, I guess so." And I. go, "Okay, let's go on that blind date.". [laughter]. >> So, we we go on a blind date. I win a. free pass. And. >> did you ask her when she's going to wash. her car next? [laughter].

>> Oh, I was quickly dirtying up her car. We So, we go to a the old beach theater, which a real old theater out on St. P. Beach and uh we go and get buy popcorn, you know, our first blind date and in. the popcorn we won a free pass to a. second movie. So, we had an immediate. second date and uh Yeah. Yeah. The rest. is history. You know, we uh we just we. just celebrated our 49th wedding.

anniversary. >> Congratulations. >> Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. >> Wow. >> That's old. >> 49 years. 49 years, man. That's amazing. Yeah. Five. grandkids. I You know, you How did that happen? Beautiful. Yeah, it is. I They make life. so much fun. I They really keep you. young. Those the grandkids. And now I. teaching them uh a little bit of martial. arts, you know, some just, you know,

simple takedowns and chokeouts. I simple. [laughter] takedowns and choked out. I. want my uh I want my uh I got one I got. one little granddaughter that uh I Yeah, I I I think I can teach her how to kill. people. [laughter] She She's a She's got. potential. Uh yeah, they all do. They're. all They're just great kids and they I. mean they already know Bible verses, you. know, that just you know I wish I I wish.

I had that much scriptural knowledge. when I was a little kid. >> Me too. >> I really do. I mean it pays off the rest. of your life. You know they can these. tough questions come up or tough times. God tell he's got a whole instruction. manual if you just read it. >> Yep. Well, Johnny, we're wrapping up the. interview. >> All right, brother. >> But I've got a hot question here for. you. >> Oh, boy. [clears throat]. >> You ready? >> Yeah.

>> You were 18 years old when you got to. Vietnam. A Marine M60 machine gunner. with fifth Marines. Machine gunners had. to had a 10, excuse me, machine gunners. had a 7 to 10 second life expectancy. once a firefight started. You were the. number one target on the battlefield. because every enemy soldier wanted to. silence that gun first. Walk me through. your combat loadout and be as. descriptive as you can for the viewer. and tell me if your load out ever.

changed throughout your time in Vietnam. >> Wow, that's good question. I don't know. if I can answer it properly. I I I can. tell you this. uh uh 20 round burst if. you wanted to stay alive. Uh I uh. sometimes you couldn't, sometimes you. had to you had to lay on the trigger and. uh. I think I think.

if you you were so concerned about the. other guys, you know, I mean I mean the. machine gun was really critical to a you. know to a grunt platoon. you you had to. have the gun. I mean, you could keep the. enemy heads down, ducking lead. You. could do something to allow your your. grunts to stay alive. Um, I did fire it a couple of times so much. that um there were there were a couple. of times where you could see the rounds. going through the the barrel of the M60. Literally, you could see it. It would go.

it would go redot and then you knew we. were in trouble. And see, the Marine. Corps, we we didn't have any spare. barrels. That's another reason you had. You guys I never had a spare barrel. My. whole time I never had a spare barrel. So, you know, you if you had to, you'd. pee on that barrel to and you know, just. to get the temperature down, make that. sucker, you pour your cantens on it, anything to keep it from cuz if it if it. melted, >> now you got a 45 and a K bar, you know, and now you So, but a couple of times,

yeah, fired until it would go red hot. and and then when it went white hot, at. white hot you, you literally could see. the, you know, the round the not every. round, but you'd see rounds It's going. through that that barrel. You could. actually see around and now it's red or. white hot. It's like having a light on. you uh in the middle of a night battle. >> Lightsaber. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's now you've got a big. spotlight on you. >> Did you ever Did you ever blow a barrel. out?

>> Uh I I Oh, I pulled barrels out. Yeah. >> I mean, like [clears throat] where the. round comes out the side. Did you ever. have that happen to you? Well, that. never happened to me, but I I could see. where it could happen, but it didn't. happen to me. But I did I did burn out a. barrel and at one time and, you know, and then uh we had we had to steal a. barrel off a from a a gunner on a. chopper. He didn't want to give it up. And uh uh we had Sam the blooper man.

convinced him. [laughter]. >> How many rounds would you. >> We need that barrel more than you do. >> Yeah. And uh you you're firing from way. up there. We're eye to eye. Give us the. barrel. Anyway, so yeah, I I burned out. a barrel. I might have burned out a. couple. How many rounds would you carry? >> I've carried 400 myself. Uh and. sometimes more, but 400 was usual. But. so you're supposed to have ammo humpers. >> Well, that's why you have a fiveman.

team, but I didn't have a fiveman team. It was just me. And sometimes me and. Chan, but sometimes Chan had to take. over another gun. And now you're all. alone or they give you a grunt uh to try. to help. But uh but yeah, you're. supposed to have fiveman team and uh all. of them carry 400 rounds each. So the. grunts had to carry, you know, I mean. the grunts, they didn't like it. They. got enough weight of their own. But now. they're having to carry machine gun. ammo. So you know, you know, everybody. looks like a Mexican bandit, but.

everybody's carrying a few hundred. rounds. >> And uh they hated it until we hit the. crowd. really need it. >> Yeah. And and then uh but they were. always happy to run throw these 100. round belts. [laughter] Hey, Clark, here. They're throwing those belts at. me. Get this weight off me, man. So, yeah, but uh yeah, I. I think uh you know, you couldn't waste. ammo and I don't know, the low down. I'm. [snorts] not sure if that answers it, but um uh.

and you had to keep that gun clean, you. know, in the jungle. Boy, if you didn't. keep that gas cylinder spit shined, uh, it's going to jam. And if it jammed, uh, you know, you I I mean, you'd catch crap. from. >> Mhm. >> you know, your sergeants and so forth, but but worse than that, you know, Marines are going to die if if that. thing jammed. So, really had to be. careful about cleaning that thing. And. that wasn't easy. I mean, the jungle was.

everything. It rotted everything. I mean. I I I would come in sometimes with all. my clothes would been ripped apart. really half naked. We we'd come in when. walk into an combat base and we had we'd. have Vietnamese laughing at us. Serious. This truly happened. We're walk humping. in, you know, I got the 60 over my. shoulder. We're humping in and I had to. cut the whole part of my trousers out. because I had dysentery. So you you. know, you don't stop and go to the. bathroom. You just drain while you walk.

Well, few weeks out in the jungle or. more, you know, your your clothes are. totally shredded. So, we we walked into. Anwa a couple of times and, you know, half naked, some of us. And uh Yeah. It. and toothbrush. Couldn't use my toothbrush. I We had to. use it to clean the gas cylinder on the. 60. Yeah. So, when you did brush your. teeth, you were brushing with oil. Gun. oil. [laughter] And you had to use the. right kind of gun oil. You had to be. careful there. Sometimes the the Marines.

gave us gun oil that it just wasn't the. best. It would uh it would get it'd be. no good in the rain and the humidity. some sometimes, you know, it wasn't so u. there was usually the army had good gun. oil. >> When's the last time you fired an M60? >> Okay. I I hadn't fired an M60 since. 1968. uh uh last night in NOM and um. a bunch of Marines uh from Iraq and.

Afghanistan, young Marines, all machine. gunners, uh they've read the books, you. know, they're in machine gun school, they're they're told to read them. So, uh they they uh they contacted me and. they flew me to Pennsylvania and and uh. wanted me to shoot an M60 machine gun. again. and they they brought a Marine. Corps cameraman uh he was a combat. cameraman to come out there and get. pictures of it and uh so as you know. like I don't know 20 to 30 of these.

young guys you know young Marines all. gunners you know they were all most of. them were all gunners and so uh so I did. you know I was excited about it but I. haven't fired a a 60 since 19 that's 50. years or so you know it's [laughter] so. I you know I I don't know am I going to. embarrass myself or what and uh. They got it all ready for me, you know, taught me a little bit. I It started. coming back with some of the ins and. outs and and then uh. >> like riding a bike, huh? >> Yeah. Yeah, it came back. It came back,

but uh but you know, I had forgotten, you know, just and uh so anyway, I was. ready. And uh so we we start firing it. They had uh it's probably 150 yards. away. Uh, I mean, when you look at the. little video, you you can blow it up and. you'll see that's a truck and a car down. there and an old washing machine. And I. don't I think that's about it, but it's. out on a farm in Pennsylvania and it's. down in like a little valley so that the. rounds won't, you know, they got sort of.

something for it to hit if you blow it. and uh so anyway I I I I opened fire on. this thing and uh loved it, but I. couldn't see where my rounds were. landing because they didn't want to use. tracer rounds. They were afraid it might. start a forest fire or something. So uh. I I finally said, you know, after a. little bit, hey guys, I can't see where. my rounds are landing. I I you know, I. don't know if I'm hitting the target or. not. I don't like that. And uh so so uh. this one young marine goes, I got this,

sir. And uh he he comes out with a. little jar of is it tannerite? Is that. what it's called? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Little jar of tannerite. Had a red. label on it. And you know it's just a. little jar. I mean tiny uh like a jar of. pickles. And he uh he runs out there, you know, and it's pretty good distance. He runs out there with this jar and he. puts it on uh on top of this washing. machine and then runs back and he goes, "You'll know if you hit that, sir." You. know, and I go, "Well, okay." Hey, you. know, and and you know, I mean,

[clears throat] 76 year old eyes here, and I'm going, "God, I think I see a. little red dot." And I did. I could see. the little red dot that was on that was. a label. And I say, "Okay, let's go.". And I, you know, so I I go to I go to. shoot and they're all going, "No, sir. Sir, you you'll never hit that shooting. from the hip. You got go on the bipod. You need a scope to hit that. You know, the new machine guns have scopes and you. know, and I said, "Yeah, I know. I I. don't like that. I don't like scopes. I.

said, you know, I need to I need to feel. it, see it. And uh they said, well, sir, it's just a waste of ammo. And well, let. let me try it. [laughter]. So, I haven't fired one in 50 years. And. uh I opened about maybe a 20 round burst. and it blew up and it blew up. It blew. the washing machine, the whole lid of. it. Blew it. Boom. And that's that's. what you see in the video is me going. >> nice. [laughter]. >> So after that all these young gunnutters.

I mean they were blown away. They were. cheering me and it was really. >> Anyways about that uh scope ladies. [laughter]. >> One one of those uh you know one of. those old men movement moments you know. where you show the young guys you still. got it. But uh you know it was fun. It. was fun for the moment. So all the young. machine gunners, they all they got to do this now. And. they had like three M60s out there. So. uh I mean these crazy Marines. They had.

a minigun on the back of a truck. [laughter]. I'm not making that up. Crazy guys. I you know I love these. guys. [laughter]. >> That's some gangster [ __ ] right there. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so uh so they all. tried it with the M60 and uh all of them. tried it from the hip and you know. because they ran out with another jar of. tannerite and uh nobody could do it and. they kept trying then they started. shooting from the bipod you know down on. the ground and aiming aiming at it and. uh nobody could hit it.

>> Damn, that's awesome. >> And so finally some freaking jarhead. with a sniper scope. He shot it with a. sniper. Yeah. Yeah. Sniper rifle and he. blew it up. But uh yeah, so it was one. of those fun moments where. you get slaps on the back from young. guys which felt good. >> That's cool, man. [laughter]. >> Yeah, they they they enjoyed it, too. They had a they got a kick out of it. >> Still have the same KBAR. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, I still got a Kar. >> Cool. Same one. >> Oh, no. No, not same. No, they took.

everything from me. Uh yeah, I had an. SKS that I tagged. you know, if you if. uh if you if you killed an NVA with a uh. singleshot weapon, uh if if you had the. chance, if you could you could tag it, you know, send it back to the rear on. the, you know, chopper bringing in food. or something and they were supposed to. put it away for you so when you back. went back to the States, you could take. singles weapons home and uh.

yeah, some pogue in the rear stole my SKS. Go. figure. >> Yeah. But I I got one I got an SKS now. That's It's pretty cool. It's just I got. the big bayonet. >> I got one, too. >> An SKS? >> Yeah. >> Oh, sweet. >> I'll pull it out here. >> The bayonet. >> Yep. Bayonet. >> and a 45. >> Oh, yeah. >> Cold 45. >> Cold 45. Although, the truth is, the one time I had to pull that 45 out, [laughter] ran out of ammo or something. I don't know. Who knows why? And uh it.

was it was rusted so bad it wouldn't. work. [laughter]. Well, I took care of the machine gun, but you know, kind of ignored that 45 on. there cuz I didn't plan on ever using. that. [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> What do you think of 9 mil? >> Oh, I like them. Yeah. I mean, I like I. Yeah. >> Do you have a 9 mil? >> Uh I Yeah, I think I do. I got a 9 mil, but uh uh. >> What is it? I think I've got an old I. mean it's not a military it's it's a.

civilian 9mm U. I think I got an old. [clears throat] Beretta. >> Oh, right on. >> I think it's a Betta. Yeah, I'm pretty. sure it's a Beretta. >> Well, I got you another present. >> Oh god, a silencer. >> That's right. >> Oh man. I mean, >> I tried to get you a machine gun, but I. just I couldn't get the paperwork done. in time. [laughter].

>> So, >> oh gosh, man. >> I got a buddy over at Sig. His name's. Jason. He's got a soft spot for Vietnam vets, just like the rest of us. >> Oh, Jason. Thanks, buddy. >> So, that is a 9 mm Sig Sauer P365. macro with a Sig flashlight, the brand. new optics line. So, it's got a red dot. on there. The Sig suppressor from. Silencer Shop. >> A silencer. >> Silencer Shop is awesome. They do super.

easy to get the silencers from. suppressors from. >> Are you allowed to have silencers? >> Well, you're in luck. You live in. Florida. So, Silencer Shop's going to. ship you a brand new can or suppressor. down to Florida for you, and you'll be. able to put that on that weapon right. there. They'll take care of all the. paperwork. The other thing I love about. Silencer Shop is they they stand up for. gun rights for for us gun enthusiasts. So, they're [ __ ] awesome company. Sig. is amazing.

>> That's great, man. >> That thing I mean, we're talking some. [ __ ] pews. >> Oh, that was. >> 17 rounds in the magazine plus one in. the pipe. >> Oh, 17 rounds. >> 17 rounds. >> Oh, man. Oh, my son's going to be trying. to steal this from me. >> Don't let him. >> Okay. [laughter]. Oh, yeah. Gosh, this is beautiful, man. Thanks. >> Well, maybe you can sleep with that. thing now.

>> It done. Yeah, [laughter]. >> done. >> Nancy won't even know when I've shot. somebody. >> Right on. [laughter]. >> She can still sleep and I'll I'll wake. her up the next day and tell her. Oh, by. the way, [laughter]. >> oh gosh, thanks, man. What a great what. a great gift. >> You're welcome. >> Yeah, I feel cheap now giving you books. and a sweatshirt. >> No, [laughter] you kidding. I'm gonna. wear that shirt everywhere. >> Oh god. >> But um All right, one last question.

>> Yeah. >> Do you think your buddy Chen would want. to come on? >> Do I What? >> Do you think your buddy Chen would want. to come on the show? >> Oh, I don't know. He He might. >> I'd love to interview him. >> He might. I He uh. I'll talk to him. I tell you, I know. some some great men that probably would.

do it quicker, but uh I know uh Major. Scott Husing. Do you know him? >> No. He uh he wrote Echo and Rammani. and uh. he he's a he he went from as a Lance. Corporal he read Guns Up and now as a. retired major and uh he he came to see. me and Guns Up was huge with him and all. the guys. I think it was in I know he.

was in Romani of course but I think he. was in uh Iraq or the first Gulf War. before that. I'm not even sure wherever. he read guns. They handed out guns up. and they would tear it in sections for a. a squad to share it. And uh so he said. it now he's you know in his 50s and he. shows up at my front door and I I didn't. know this guy and he goes, "My name is. Major Scott Houston and uh I've wanted. to meet you ever since I was a Lance. Corporal [laughter]. and uh got to know him real good. uh is.

with the fourth Marines and this book. Echo and Ramati I you'd probably relate. to that a lot more than NOM stuff but uh. yeah anyway yeah he's one I will I'll. talk to Chad. >> perfect. >> see what he says yeah. >> yeah yeah I uh. this is. this has been so I've been so excited. about this. >> me too. >> I' I've been I've been way too anxious I.

had to I had to pray uh you know be. anxious for nothing uh probably a. hundred times just I had to chill out a. little bit. I was so excited about it. Well, ever since it started when Jaco. came on your show and suggested me. and I I all my friends sent me Jaco told. Sean Ryan to have you on, you know, and. and I'm I mean every from that moment. I've been nervous. [laughter]. >> Joo's an awesome dude, man.

I'm excited. But you know, so are you. >> Yeah. >> God, this is I love this thing. [laughter]. >> You haven't even shot it yet. How do you. know? >> I know. But I love it. >> Ah, you're going to love it. >> Oh, yeah. >> It's not raining out there. We can crack. a couple rounds off. >> Oh, let's do. >> All right. >> All right. >> You want to end this with a prayer? >> I do. >> How about you? >> Okay. I better put my weapon down. I. don't know [laughter] if God appreciates.

Father God, uh we come before you, Lord, uh to give thanks. I want to I want to. thank you with all my heart for uh uh. for taking care of me through all this. and getting me uh just getting me on. this podcast. I I don't believe in. accidents and I know Sean doesn't. either. Lord, we want to give you thanks. for a million and one blessings. Thank. you, Lord, for the calling you've put on. his life. uh thank you for using him in. such a mighty way and giving him this.

voice that that's reaching so many. people and giving him the courage to. stand up for Christ. That's not easy in. this world, Lord. It's really hard. sometimes. Father, uh keep. keep encouraging uh Sean with that kind. of courage and don't let any of Satan's. attacks and we know there's going to be. some. There's there's always Satan's. attacks, especially when a Christian's. doing something. If if a Christian's on. the sideline doing nothing, Satan leaves.

him alone. But when you got a man like. Sean who's stepping up and uh stepping. out front, he he's he's walking point, God, and that's that's hard to do down. here, and you know it. So, bless him, bless this show, bless his family, and. we just want to give you all the thanks. and the praise in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. >> Thank you, brother. >> Yeah, Phil. [laughter]. >> Johnny. >> Yeah, >> it was an honor.

>> Oh, thanks, man. [music]. No matter where you're watching the. Shawn Ryan Show from, if you get. anything out of this at all, anything, please like, comment, and subscribe. And. most importantly, share this everywhere.

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