Joe McMoneagle - CIA's Project Stargate | SRS #95

Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Every once in a while, I will take a. speculative interview. where nobody really knows the truth on. the subject matter. And when I do that, I always talk about that in the. introduction. This interview, however, may be a little. bit hard for some of you to believe, but. I assure you there is no speculation. In. fact, I've provided a lot of the. documentation you'll see presented in.

the actual episode. And for those of you. that still don't believe, do your own. research. Look this stuff up yourself. and you'll find that it's very real. Remote viewing has been around for a. very long time. The US was a little bit. late to the game on it as the Russians. have been utilizing this stuff for. several years before we did. I brought. on the first remote viewer for the. United States. This man is a legend. He.

called The Hunt for the Red October. submarine. Many of you have seen that. movie. He called where the first. International Space Station was going to. crash into the Earth. He called a lot of. things and we're going to cover all of. them on this show. Ironically, I've heard that this man actually remote. viewed his own death, which supposedly happens at age 78.

Coincidentally, this episode was recorded on his 78th. birthday, and I addressed that and ask. him this question in the episode. You'll. see it's at the very end. Ladies and. gentlemen, if you get anything out of these. episodes, please like, comment, and. subscribe to the YouTube channel. Head. over to Spotify or Apple Podcast. Leave. us a review. That really, really helps. the show. Just leave one word in the.

review. That helps us. And ladies and gents, without further. ado, please welcome. remote viewer number 001 for the United. States, Mr. Joe McBonle. One last thing before. we kick this off. There's a lot of talk. in this episode about the Monroe. Institute, a institute that helps develop and hone.

in these type of abilities, which offers. courses to regular everyday people like. myself. I plan on going. Check out their website. I wouldn't be. surprised if I see you there. Love you. all. Enjoy the show. [Music]. Joe McMonagle, welcome to the show. Thank you. Glad to be here. Actually, I. am very glad that you're here as well.

I've been looking into you for right. around a year now. And um and uh Sean. Webb has introduced us, mutual friend of. us, and uh you know, credit to Sean. I. I've been listening to you for about a. year on and off and then uh and then in. the weeks leading up to the interview. I've been in my head I don't know if. you're pulling tricks on me or not but. uh it's it's been in my head a lot. I. can't do that. Doesn't work that way.

And uh well Sean has been a a a. very valuable resource. He's a cool guy. I like him a lot. I really do. He's a. neat guy. All right, Joe. So, I want to. give you an introduction, and I believe. this may be the longest introduction. I've ever done, so bear with me here. Okay. Joe McMonagle, you spent over 12. years as an Army intelligence officer in. Vietnam and Southeast Asia. You've. survived three assassination attempts.

Army intel performed a fake funeral on. you. You survived over a decade in a job. that has a 20-month life expectancy. After your field service, you were. tapped for a highly classified black. project connected with the development. of the first remote viewing program for. the United States Intelligence Service. called Grill Flame, later renamed. Stargate. You have provided. time-sensitive and actionable. intelligence for the CIA, the DIA, the.

NSA, the FBI, DEA, NRO, National. Reconnaissance Office, NASA, US Special. Operations Units, Joint Chief of Staff, the National Security Council, and the. White House, among other agencies that. we can't even bring up. Your esteemed. service and remote viewing for. government earned you a Legion of Marin. award. One of the most prestigious. awards in the US Army intelligence off a. US Army intelligence officer can be. given. After your military retirement,

you spent decades as remote viewing as a. remote viewing consultant for US. intelligence, saving dozens of lives, including those of some missing. children. You've remote viewed. everything from classified submarines to. hostage situations and even Mars. You've. performed numerous successful remote. viewings on live television in Japan and. the US. And you currently guest teach. remote viewing at the Monroe Institute. Many call you a psychic spy, but you are.

remote viewer number 001 for the United. States. Joe, I'm out of breath now. Welcome to the Shawn Ryan Show. It is an. honor to have you here. So, I can't wait to get your life story. I. just have to just have to say one thing. and that's the three assassination. attempts. You you could interpret one of them as. an attempt. Um, and that was when I was.

uh. uh. in uh Austria eating dinner with my. ex-wife and a close friend and uh got. something in my drink that wiped me out. I had no heartbeat till he got me to a. clinic and uh. surprised everybody by coming back to. life. Wow. and uh as a result got. smuggled out to a rest home in Munich.

where they wanted to know how badly my. brain was damaged because I had no. heartbeat for so long. So they assumed I. had brain damage that and the fact that. I was talking about God's a white light. and you can't cease to exist might have. had something to do with it. Interesting. So they let everybody think. I was dead. And I think it was just a. few years ago, maybe five or six years.

ago, I met somebody in Lynchburg, Virginia, who came up with, he had a. beard. He came up. He said, "Do you. recognize me?" And I said, "No." He. said, "I work for you at the detachment, the borders detachment." And we all. thought you were dead all these years. Wow. and here you are giving a lecture. in Lynchber. And so that that kind of. isn't you could interpret that as an. assassination attempt. There's a couple.

other events that could be seen that. way, but only from a certain. perspective. I don't think they were assassination. But I think they were just plain. accidents where I happen to be in the. wrong place at the wrong time. Okay. that kind of thing. Well, we will get to. that in your life story if you don't. mind prompting me when appropriate. But, um, Joe, I want to I want to go through. your whole life. I would like to.

document, uh, this is your biography. I. want to document your entire life. starting at childhood all the way up to. now. But before we get into that, everybody on the show gets a gift. So, little something for you and Oh. scooter on the way home. Thank you from. us. Oh, very cool. Thank you. Those are not poisoned, I. promise. No. Hey, they're just gummy. bears. Gummy bears. That's right. But um.

that's very great. Thank you. You're. welcome. And something that I did forget. to mention in the introduction is you've. been married to your beautiful bride for. 39 years. And uh that's correct. That is. amazing. Yeah. And it's nice to see. people with healthy relationships at. last because you don't see that very. often anymore. And so congratulations. I. started out rough, but I smoothed out at. the end. Well, you did damn good. So, but um but.

yeah, let's um you know, like I said, I. would like to you know, you had a very. extensive career. I know you spent a lot. of time in Vietnam, Southeast Asia, and. Army intelligence, but uh I would. actually like to start before then in. your childhood. So, where did you grow. up? I grew up in Miami, Florida in a. what I what we be termed not loosely, but in reality as a slum. Um,

the house we lived in had bars on all. the windows and doors and we had these. broomsticks in the corner for the uh. rats that would come out of the sewers. and stuff. They were like house cats, that kind of thing. And uh it it was a. bad area of town. It was uh 79th Street. about Northwest 2nd Avenue which was. right next to I think it was uh Edison.

High School if I'm not mistaken now. But. mostly it was refugees from. uh from Cuba. uh a lot of poor poor people, white. people, black people, Puerto Rican, uh a melting pot, a melting pot of very. poor people. And so there was a lot of. uh. uh rough gangs there and whatnot, which.

I adamantly fought not being a member. of. And uh I remember I would tell them, "It's okay to mess with me, but don't. mess with my sisters or my mother." And. uh I was ready to back that up. And they. they learned to leave them alone and. pick on me. So I was the one of the fastest kids in. on the block. What time frame is this? That's uh let's see. 19.

uh 1950s. 1950s. Yeah, I was born in. 1946, so it would be about 19. 58 on and uh. uh I went to Catholic school, elementary. school, which is about a mile and a half. away. It's now the cathedral in Miami. Okay. Uh but it's now in a very poor. neighborhood. It wasn't then, but we had. to walk out of the poor area to get to.

the the church. It was a little wooden. church called St. Mary's on a little. hilltop. and uh now it's you know all encroached. by big buildings and whatnot and it's a. cathedral you know all polished and. pretty and everything. Yeah. Who were. your parents? My par well my mother was. uh my father met my mother when she was. wrapping Christmas presents for a. department store in Miami. And my father.

quit school when he was uh 14. He had. polio, so he wore braces on his legs. And his father left his mother and him. and his uh his other brother. when he was 14. So he quit school to. help bring money in to help his mother. And so he did everything from. uh cadding for golf players, which were. mostly hoods from New York that would.

come down to Miami uh over the winter. and play golf and gamble and that sort. of thing. Uh back then you could only. get to Miami by train. There was no road. that got to Miami. Interesting. Uh, my. grandmother came to Miami in a ox cart. actually along the shoreline. Are you. kidding me? No, they used oxen because. they could pull these wagons through the. water and the sand and whatnot.

and uh she had her house built right on. the Miami River and it was a perfectly. square house, but she lived upstairs and. downstairs you could pull these ropes. and the plywood siding would come up and. make like a extension of a roof around. the outside and under there was a big. horseshoe shaped bar. And so she served local moonshine and. they had music and they would dance. under these uh live oaks and they had.

all these old statues and whatnot. And uh people would show up and dug out. canoes because back then they hunted the. bird feathers, hunted birds for the. feathers for hats over in Europe, that. sort of thing. And so she serviced those. people who were the people out of the. swamp and whatnot. Interesting. Yeah, it's an interesting story. The. background of my dad. Yeah. Um but he.

never had a really a formal education, but he was a hell of a golfer. He took. his braces off, by the way, and threw. them in the trash because nobody would. give him a job when he wore them. So he. walked uh his right leg was worse than. his left leg. So it was about 3 in. shorter. Uh when the war started he tried to join. the army. He spent 3 weeks in the army. and the DI walking along behind the the.

soldiers standing at you know attention. saw his one leg up in the air and he. asked him do you always stay on your. toes like that? And he said only the. right leg. It's a little shorter. So, they gave him a dis they gave him an. honorable discharge and threw him out. and all of his buddies were killed. in the war. So, it really soured him on. all that stuff. And he was upset by.

that, I think, his whole life. But, he. worked in a warehouse his whole life. And I don't know if people are familiar. with people with polio, but walking on. the toes or the ball of your feet on one. side on a concrete floor your whole. life. You develop a callous. Mhm. That. goes right to the bone. It's the most. one of the most painful things you can. endure. And he never said a word ever.

about it. But he drank a lot. when he. would come home, he'd go through a. six-pack or a 10 pack of beer. every night and people really condemned. him for it. Like all the relatives, you. know, your dad's nothing but an. alcoholic, blah, blah, blah. But he. really loved his family and he worked. his whole life very hard to take care of. us. Were you close with your parents? I. was close with my dad and not my mom.

My mom was. very controlling. and she usually got controlling when I. wanted to do something like leave after. dark to go somewhere. And so she'd scream at me and yell at me. and I would just ignore her. And. sometimes she'd stop me and slap me. across the face and say, "Pay attention. to me." and I just laugh or smile at her. and she'd keep slapping me and finally. give up and I'd walk out the door and do.

what I wanted. But. I learned in the in the army actually I. was thinking about I had an epiphany. like my seventh year in the army and I. realized what she was actually doing was. out of fear for her children. She. wanted, she was trying to protect us in. the areas we were growing up in. That. was her way of doing it. And so I came. home and I confronted her with that and. she said yes, that's all she ever meant.

to do. And so we had this coming. together and uh so we became very good. friends and very close until her death, which was at a very young age. Oh. So, she had a heart attack. Uh, had to take two buses to get to the. hospital. They gave her a bottle of pills and sent. her home and she didn't last very long. Same thing happened with my twin sister. Really? So, yeah. So, real.

a real gripe with hospitals that just. give people pills and send them home. No. Still doing it today, 70s something. years later. Yeah. But uh when when did. your sister pass? Uh she passed uh I. think it was around her just before her. 50th birthday. and uh she lived in Ocala, Florida at. the time. She was also schizophrenic. Oh man. But she control at the end she.

was very well controlled with meds was. you know living her life and it was a. good one at the end. But um and we were. always close. She was she said I was the. only one she ever trusted because I. never lied to her. I'd always tell her. the truth. She'd call me sometimes. I get a call at 3:00 in the morning in. Germany. Um I'm standing on the side of the road.

It's pouring down rain. I don't know. what to do. There's nothing here. And. I'd say, "How did you get there?" Well, I was on. a bus and I said, "Why'd you get off the. bus?". Little Abner was looking at me and. little Abner is a cartoon in the. newspaper. And she said, "No, he's not. He was. driving the bus." So, I had to get off. and I go, "Oh, jeez. What do I do?" So,

I say, "Stand on the edge of the road. When somebody comes by, wave like. crazy.". And then I didn't hear from her for six. months. A state trooper picked her up, took her to a hospital. where they'd stabilize her and once she. was stable, she'd call me on the phone. and apologize and everything. But that's the kind of life she led and. Wow. So I worried about her all the. time. When did that start? It started at age 15.

uh she got pregnant from a boyfriend or. something and my parents sent her up to. Baltimore to live with another aunt who. kept her there until she birthed the. baby and then he took the child away. from her and gave it away or gave it. away to adoption or something and that. was it. That's drove her over the edge I. think and uh she hated my mother till.

she died. You couldn't. talk her into any other belief, man. And. uh but I had three other sisters and my. second oldest sister who was 7 years my. junior. Uh she when she was born, I climbed a. tree in the backyard and said, "I'm not. coming down out of the tree until you. take her back." I was 7 years old. And my mother said, "That's not going to.

happen." And so I, "Well, I'm not coming. down the tree." She said, "Fine, stay in. the tree." And she went inside and. closed the door. And that night, the. mosquitoes drove me out of the tree. So, I snuck in the house and noticed the. little bassinet sitting on the kitchen. table and I snuck up on it and looked. over the edge and it was my new sister.

and and while I was staring at her, she. opened one eye, you know, and started. screaming and I went, "Ah!" You know, but it's like a bird, you know. She kind. of anchored on me and everywhere I went, she went. Everything I did, she wanted. to see what I was doing. And uh in in her early years at school, I had to walk her to school, which is. okay as long as I didn't like have.

ownership. Yeah. But as soon as we left. the house, she'd say, "You got to hold. my hand." And I'd say, "I'm not going to. hold your hand." She said, "You got to. hold my hand. I can't see. The sun's too. bright. So, I have to hold her hand all the way. to school. And when people people meet her now, they think she's my twin because we. think alike, talk alike. You know, everything about her is the same as me. almost. And but my other two sisters,

uh, my next one in line was Beth, Elizabeth. And. Beth's gentle like a like a deer. I. remember her whole time as a child, she. would walk around in the rooms on her. tiptoes. I think she was my dad's favorite and. she was trying to emulate him cuz he's. walking on tiptoes on his right foot. Oh. yeah. So she always walked on tiptoes.

Interesting. And she was very quiet. She. was an observer. She'd come into a room. and just observe. And then my baby sister Kathy was the. one that was a real terrorist. She she got it into she got into it all. the time at school and. uh she got in a fight over a basketball. or something with some boy and I think. she was eight eight or nine at the time.

and he pushed her down on the basketball. court and she broke her broke her arm. So she was in a cast. and uh she came to me and she said, "How. do I deal with this kid?" And I said, "Just tell him you want to tell him a. secret, but he's got to come close cuz. you're going to whisper." And when he. comes up close, he just with a cast. And that afternoon, I got to talk to a. cop. who brought her to the house and said,

"Did you tell your sister to do this?". And I said, "Hell yeah, I did.". Almost went to jail for it. But uh my other sisters told me that she. was. all she was wild child uh her whole. life. She died from a brain tumor at 35. or 36. Oh man. Yeah. So I lost my twin. sister and my baby sister. I'm sorry.

The two in between. are now retired master senior master. sergeants from the Air Force. Are you. kidding me? Are they were they in the. intelligence service as well? No. Okay. They uh supported a an active fighter. squadron up in uh Portland, Oregon. Their whole time they were in Yeah. That's where they both lived or one. lived across the river in Washington. State and my other sister lived in.

Portland. So they worked at that active. uh fighter squadron their whole time in. the service. Okay. And uh one was a. secretary to the commander I think kind. of a secretary or you know a person who. supported him. and my other sister was current she's. very proud of her MOS cuz it's one of. the few combat MOS's the Air Force has. It's where they parachute in some a team. and they set up all the electronic.

requirements for a landing strip. Mhm. So when they acquire a landing strip in. a combat zone and it's got no support, they go in and support the fighters they. bring in and the bombers and things like. that until they can bring in a regular. crew. And uh they tried to push her out of. that MOS a couple times when she got. more rank and she fought them to the to. the end. Very cool. Uhhuh.

Here's. the situation. You've got China, Russia, Ukraine, the border. The banks seem to. be collapsing. Plus, the Chinese just. negotiated with Iran, Saudi Arabia, and. Brazil to drop the US dollar. And most. Americans, including myself, feel that. we're in a recession right now. But. despite all the evidence, I can't tell. you what's going to happen for sure. Nobody can. Yet, when it comes to your. money, you should understand what's at. stake. That's why I partnered with Gold.

Co to possibly help at times like this. Go to shaunlikesold.com. or call 855936. gold to get your free gold and silver. kit. The kit shows you how to defend. your money with precious metals and how. listeners of the show could get up to. $10,000 in bonus silver. Go to. shanlikesgold.com. or call 855936. gold to get your free gold and silver. kit. I can't predict the future, but I.

can certainly prepare for it. So, go to. shaunlikesgold.com. or call 855936. gold. Now, performance may vary. Consult. with your tax attorney or financial. professional before making an investment. decision. I've spent more time than I would like. to admit researching, testing, trying to find the perfect. mattress that's going to give me a good. night's sleep. And it basically got to. the point where I just gave up. I suffer.

from chronic back pain. It comes from 14. years of combat operations as a Navy. Seal and a CIA contractor. My back's just shot. No matter what. mattress I use, it I wake up, I can't. move. Takes me about 45 minutes just to. loosen up, to bend over, to put my shoes. on, to get out the door. And then. somebody a friend of mine told me about. Helix mattresses. So, I went to the. website. Turns out they got a quiz you take. You. take the quiz and then they make a.

recommendation out of the 20 mattresses. they have in stock. Mine was the. Midnight Lux. And bam, had it shipped. right to my house. Very skeptical, by. the way, but slept on it first night. Slept like a baby. Complete. game changer. Another thing I like about. Helix mattresses is they have the. enhanced cooling feature that keeps you. from overheating. We've all used.

mattresses where you wake up, especially. these memory foam ones, right? You wake. up and you're sweating and you can't go. back to sleep. Well, Helix is taking. care of that. Take the Helix Sleep quiz. at helixleep.com. and find your perfect mattress in under. two minutes. Helix is offering 20% off. all mattress orders and two free pillows. for our listeners. Go to. helixleleep.com/srs. and use the code Helix partner 20. This.

is their best offer yet and it's not. going to last long with Helix. Better. sleep starts now. Joe, I've read I don't remember if I've. read or heard or watched or listened, but I remember hearing somewhere that. something in your childhood kind of. shaped uh or maybe developed you for for. the career that you were going to dive. into. Can you can you talk about that at. all?

Yeah, I I had to get out of Miami. Um, I'm I'm really a a bug about racial. things. I I grew up with, you know, people with. no money, people who grew up hard just. like I did, and. many of them were white, many of them. were black, many of them were Hispanic. Uh, some of them were foreign. Uh, and.

the way they're treated is not right. And my mother and I were walking through. a place called um have to bear with me. I'm trying to remember some things here. I think it was called Grenels Park. I. think that was what it was called. Grenels Park, which is downtown Miami, right across from all the big buildings. and stuff. And it was a park where you. could just walk through and whatnot. I remember meeting Roy Rogers there and.

uh. what was the other the guy with the. white stallion? Oh uh. had the silver bullets. long ranger. He actually gave me one of. his silver bullets. Oh man. It turn. turned out to be a blank but it was it. was silverplated. Anyway, I'm walking through there with. my mother and it was hot and I was. thirsty and I saw a water fountain and I.

went up and started drinking out of it. My mother grabbed me and pull me away. from it. She said, "Don't use that. fountain. It's colored only.". And I said, "Why?". And she said, "I can't explain it, but. you shouldn't drink out of those water. fountains.". Next time I went to saw my doctor, uh, my mother took me to my doctor. Uh, I think I was maybe. 12 or 13 at the time. He read me to Riot.

Act about using those water fountains. and said all these diseases. He just. read off this huge list of diseases I. could get drinking out of a colored. water fountain. And I told him, I said, "That doesn't. make any sense to me at all. That's. nuts. And he got angry. And my mother got. angry. And I said, I got to get out of. this place. This isn't right. And that I. don't think that changed up until the.

day I left. When I was 18. Soon as I. turned 18, I went downtown. Vietnam was starting to build up and. nobody was enlisting. Mhm. Voluntarily. Everybody was trying to avoid the draft. or if they got the draft, they wanted a. really high number, that kind of stuff. But when I graduated from high school, I. and my group of buddies, maybe four of. us, went downtown and went to the uh the.

place where they had the uh. all the recruiting sites and we went. around to each one, you know, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and I think we even visited the Coast. Guard. And uh I went back to the army. They. when I first walked into the Army. recruiting office, they said uh they. looked at me. They looked at my high. school record and because we had these. folders, you know, it had all our.

information in it. And they said, "Get out of here. We. don't want to talk to you. You're too. smart for the army." I said, "What are. you talking about?" He says, "We're. bullet launchers and we're bullet. catchers. That's all we do. Go find somebody. else." and he there I threw me out. So I went around the other places and it. became apparent to me they were lying. Every single one of those recruiters are. the Air Force was you have a private. room, you know, you get to visit travel.

all over the world. Uh you know, typical BS they do to rope. you in. Mhm. And so my buddies got. hooked by the Navy mostly. They all. joined the Navy. But I didn't know that. cuz I went back to the army place and I. walked in and he says, "Why are you back. here?" I said, "You're the only guy. that's not lying to me.". So, I joined the army. I came out, met my.

buddies. They joined the Navy. What did you join the army to do? I I. actually joined the army because I felt. like if I was going to serve the. country, that was the place to be. I. just felt like they were. guys who were taking up the mission. versus. uh kind of dragging their feet going in. These guys were like the guys that they. would go with.

I I just felt like they were serious. about it. And and that's the message. this guy was delivering. And so we talked and he asked me why and. I wanted to join the army. I said I want. to I want to fly fixed wing. He said do you know the difference? And. I said yeah I know I don't want to fly a. helicopter. He said why not? I said I. heard it's a bag of rocks when it can't. fly anymore. And he says you're right. It's a bag of rocks. So he says, "We.

don't have a lot of fixedwing pilots, but you're smart enough for it.". So he said, "I would advise you to get. tested before you join.". So I went back and actually I committed. to it. I went back and I got tested and. they open arms, you know, come on in. And so I I did all the uh test and. scored fairly high. U because by then I was in a private boy.

school paid for by a man senior at the. cathedral. So my whole high school education was. very good with the Jesuits. and whatnot. So. they the army took me in promised me. fixed wing and then I got to my basic. training. I took the basic training and. when they started to ship me off to the. fixed wing school, they said, uh,

there's some basic requirements you have. to meet and I couldn't meet the, uh, gut. perception test. I was three inches off. at 25 feet. and they said you don't you're you have. a stigma stigmatation or something in. your vision which doesn't permit you to. get a good depth perception. So you can't fly fix you can't fly.

anything. So find something else. So, I went through a brochure of MOS's. and came up with the idea that I wanted. to do this thing called, it was called a. Sidewinder back then. It was a track. mounted 106 recless rifle. It had six. recallless rifle barrels on it and it. was track mounted and it was very quick, maybe like 50 m an hour and I thought,

"Yeah, that's it. Strike and run. I was thinking, boy, if you're fast, they can't get you. Um, so I went to AIT. for that and finish my AIT. And then when I they gave assignments to. everybody in the class, everybody was. off to Vietnam, Philippines, all these. different places. and you, Joe, go sit in the barracks.

because. we don't know what we're going to do. with you yet. So, I'm sitting in the. barracks when somebody came in from the. orderly room and said, "They've just. obsoleted. your weapons group. The army's doing. away with it, so you have to find. another MOS.". So, I don't know what the heck I want to. do. So, I went out on the base and I'm This. is at uh.

Columbia, South Carolina. So, I'm. walking around on the base during. training hours. Can't find any MOS that I want to do. So, I'm at the PX beer hall at 2:00 in. the afternoon. So, it's empty and I'm. sitting in there drinking a beer and a. civilian guy came in and sat way across. the place from me. I said, "What are you. sitting way over there? Why don't you. come sit over here and we could talk?". So, he came over and he asked me what I.

was doing and I told him and he said, "Um, I might be able to help you." He said, "Come by and see me tomorrow." And he. gave me his card. And all his card had. on it was a phone number. So, I called him the next day and he. gave me directions. And he was in a. trailer. So I visited him at his trailer in. Columbia, South Carolina on the base. and uh when I went in, he he introduced.

himself, gave me his name and everything. and he said, "I think I can help you. pick an MOS." And I said, "How how do we. do that? Do I look through a brochure?". Say, "No." And he handed me a dart. I said, "What's this for?" and he pulled. his curtain back and it was a big dart, standard dart board on the wall, but it. had little numbers written in all the. little places. And he said, "You throw the dart, you. hit a number, we look it up, it tells. you your MLS.".

So I threw the dart and it hit on one of. the black lines that separated Mhm. things. And I said, "What does that. mean? Do I get to throw the dart again?". He said, "No, that's believe it or not. is an MOS.". And I said, "What is it?" And he said, 'I can't tell you. I said, 'What do you mean you can't tell. me? He said, 'Well, this is a. recruitment for intelligence. And I said, what's that? I had no idea.

And so he he said, "I can't explain it. to you because you don't have a. clearance." And I said, "Well, how am I. supposed to do an MLS that I don't have. a clearance for?" said, 'Well, we do. background and everything once you. volunteered. And I said, 'Okay, I'll volunteer. And he said, you don't have enough. commitment time. I had only committed. for 4 years. Said you got to have six years. commitment because the school was over a.

year, year and a half. So I said, okay, what do I do? He said, well, we have some papers for that. and. he had me sign my discharge from the. four-year commitment and sign a. recruitment for a six-year commitment. And then he told me that my MOS, he gave. me the numbers. It was. 05D10.

And I said, "What does that mean?" He. said, "I can't tell you. You have to go. to school for it and we're going to send. you out to Fort Deans, Massachusetts.". So I went to Fort Evans and I the first. school I was in was 120 people and we. all had headsets on and we were all. learning Morse code. So I learned most Morse code and you had. to pass I think it was 18 words per. minute sending and receiving to. graduate. I couldn't get past 10. And I mean that.

went on and on. I was getting like. within 10 days of graduation, I couldn't. pass 10. So, I snuck out through a hole. in the fence and went to this hotel and. got absolutely wasted on beer cuz I was, you know, almost 21. So, anyway, I came back in just in time for. school the next day and people couldn't. stand next to me. I smelled so bad. And he came up to me and he said,

"You're not typing anything." And I. said, "Uh, not into it today." And he's. doing one of these. And he says, "Where. have you been all night?". I said, "I might have had a few beers.". He said, "Well, full uh full with this a little while. If you don't pass it today, you're out.". And so I passed 12, 15, 18, and 20. Almost 22. Wow. In 4 hours. with a.

hangover. With a hang I mean I was still. drunk. So I graduated third in the class. Top three guys didn't go anywhere. We. went to the next school. Everybody else. block allocated Southeast Asia. So the next class we had 21 or 22 people. in it. And it was for everything but. the morse code.

Every kind of radio operation in the. world. Russian radios, Chinese radios, Czech radios, German radios, American. radios, small radios, big radios, burst. transmission type radios, all that kind. of stuff. I graduated first in that. class. I and the number two guy went to a third. class. The rest block allocated. Southeast Asia.

The third class I went to. was me and him, two guys that were not wearing uniforms. and another guy who was wearing a. uniform I'd never seen before. And we're like seven of us in this. class. And I graduated first in that. class. And that basically was 6 months. in the snow. I never saw a warm. building, a warm room, a warm tent. I.

mean, living in the snow, literally. And then I got sent into uh uh Boston. for a twoe test. My job was to go into. Boston, seek out someone who I thought might be. an instigator, uh, anti-war demonstrator, whoever, and file reports on them. So, I I saw. this woman who was looked to be part.

Chinese, and she was definitely a rabble rouser. So I started writing writing her up and. sending reports in on a every other day. basis. And after about 2 and 1/2 weeks, I got a. telephone call. He said, "Come back into. the base. Uh we want to go over some things with. you." And it was a Saturday. I thought. that was kind of unusual. So I went in. on Saturday. When I walked in the. office, she was sitting on the at this.

couch, the woman you were surveilling. Yeah. and she had been surveilling me. So, we had picked up on each other and. were writing reports on one another. And. so, we both passed. Wow. Wow. Wow. So, then everybody got assignments. but me. So, I'm sitting around for a. week waiting for an assignment. And they came in one day and they said, "Go into uh Fitchburg, Massachusetts.

Here's 300 bucks. Go into Fitchburg and. buy civilian clothes.". So I went to this Ben store in Fishburg. and bought a suit and, you know, typical. load of clothes. And I came back and they took all my. uniforms away and everything. And uh I. waited another week and then they came. and got me and took me to an air base, put me on a C130 and I had to sign for.

an entire pallet load of classified. material. cuz they had given me my clearances by. then. So we made I don't know six or seven. stops and I was signing off the stuff. that people were taking off this pallet. And when it got down to just a few. objects, we landed and they said, "Get. off with this stuff." And I got off and. the plane left. And I was sitting on. this little runway.

And on the right side was the Atlantic. Ocean. And on the left side was this. light blue. like Mediterranean color. And I could see both at the same time. cuz the place I was sitting was maybe. 300 m across. And I was sitting on a log and I said, "Where am I? I had no idea. Nobody would tell me." And this baby. blue Jeep pulled up and a guy got out of. the Jeep with black shorts, white.

t-shirt, flip-flops, and he came over and he said, "My name's. Sal Curado. I'm a warrant officer and. I'm your boss. Get in." I said, "Where. the hell are we?" says, "You're on a. Lutheran in the Bahamas.". So, my first tour was 18 months on a. Lutheran in the Bahamas, which is an out island. It's a thin 116 milei island that's only.

half a mile wide at any given point. And uh. our cover was air rescue. Half the unit couldn't swim. Now, I was a Red Cross. uh lifeguard, so I worked at Eden Rock. on Miami Beach for a few months. So, I. taught them how to swim. I taught the.

guys with kids and a wife how to swim. Taught everybody that didn't know how to. swim how to swim. And I was became the like the major. swimmer and diver because. that was our cover. But sometimes a boat would run around or. something. We had to like go out and. save people that kind of stuff actually. actually live actually play out your. cover. So.

I I can't tell you what we did there. It's still classified. But but I was. there just a year. It was considered a. hardship tour. Most of the guys brought. their wife and kids over. Um I was the only one who extended 6. months. So I'm from Miami. I was a roundtrip $27. ticket on a jet whisper jet to Miami. 18 flight. So I was having a good time. Good. And.

uh met my first wife that way in Miami. That was a mistake. because my next tour was Germany. Your. next tour was Vietnam. Okay. And uh. that was rough. What was the job. satisfaction like in the Bahamas? In the. Bahamas. Were you excited? Was it was it. an exciting project? Yeah, the mission was exciting, but the.

mission was like every third week or. maybe not or sometimes that kind of. thing. Okay. I met a guy, the most exciting part of. it was I met a hit guy out of uh. he was a Haitian refugee. His name was. Maurice. He was a French Haitian. And um. he was a good friend of the what they.

called the voodoo mama of the island. She was an old lady with one leg who. they live all lived in the keys which. was a slum area. You walked on boards. from one little island to the next and. they lived in basically shacks built. from driftwood. That kind of thing. They. were avoided by everybody. I grew up that way. Didn't bother me at. all. I go visit her and take her a big.

brown bag full of baloney sandwiches, which she loved cuz she had no teeth. Um, I took care of her. We had a class 5. hurricane that hit the island. And we were supposed to I and my we. worked in pair so I and my partner. were supposed to. evacuate some equipment when the air. speed got up above a certain height. So.

we're watching this animator. and suddenly the animator jumped. to like 100 miles an hour or better. So, we started jerking this classified. equipment out, putting it in a jeep in. black bags, and we watched the plane as. we were loading the jeep. We watched the. plane take off and just fly off to. Florida. So, he says, "Well, what what do we do?". And I should put it back in.

the trailer, transfer everything to this. van that we had and get the loading. chains that they delivered it with. And. we pounded twoft stakes into the Carl. and chained it down on all four corners. and actually. went into the hut. And as we were. shutting the door, two wild dogs came in. with us. They they were probably the. smartest animals on the planet. They came running in. So we shut the.

door and wrapped it with 1-in strap and. welded it shut. So I've been in a lot of hurricanes in. my life in Miami. I'll bet. And I knew. that this was going to be a bad one cuz. it was already a class 4 and it was. coming up from Cuba. And it actually hit the island, came up. the island and stood a half half a mile. away at the edge of the eye. for 23 hours or something.

And you almost couldn't think inside. this van because the gravel and sand. hitting the wall of the metal van. was excruciatingly loud. And the two. wild dogs wouldn't let us touch them, but they really loved the food we gave. them. And when we got 2 ft of water in the. van, I started thinking. we're in trouble. Mhm. But it never got. higher than that. We slept up on. equipment racks with blankets and the.

dogs went up there with us, climbed on. up, just climb right on up. Um, and when it was all over, we came out. Everything was gone. Everything. The completely destroyed. the jeeps, the generators, the wires, the antennas, everything gone. And uh. the we had survived it. So I got I got. an immediate well.

I got chastised for not following orders. and being at the airport. That cost me a $50 fine which I couldn't. afford back then. My income as an E4 by. then I was an E4 specialist 4. was $72 a month I think. Wow. And I got. fined 70 bucks and I was like that's. going to hurt. I can't even get a. haircut with that. Yeah. And then and.

then I came out. I was pissed. And my boss said, "Now turn around and. go right back in." And I said, "Why?" He. said, "Just turn around and go right. back in." So, I went back in. and the guy smiled at me. I saluted and. reported a second time and he said, "Now, I'm going to promote you to Buck. Sergeant. and congratulate you on a job you did. really well." So, I got the one of the. first. Mox meritorious unit citations or.

meritorious unit, not unit. It was a meritorious medal. Oh, good. It. was above archcom. Wow. So, and then later I got promoted to E6. So, the guy that was training me became. my junior that worked for me. No. kidding. Yeah. And so I extended 6. months. and so I went straight from there to.

Vietnam. That was my second tour. How was. how did you receive the information that. you were going to Vietnam? I mean I'm it. was it was well into the war by this. point if you join that was a story in. itself. I got sent from the island back. to Homestead, Florida. The at the big. air base there. We had an army unit. And. the army unit was working with the Navy. uh there.

And so I became an instructor for the. Navy, teaching them how to work a piece of. equipment that they never seen before. And it irritated them that an army guy. could walk into their area, have total clearance to be behind their. black, you know, block.

Well, I did the best job I could. And I. noticed every time the block allocation. came out for Southeast Asia, my name was. on it right at the top. It had a line. through it with the colonel's initials. So after the third occasion, I went by. to see the colonel and I said, "I'm here. on a social visit.". I said, "I need to know why. you keep lining me out and initiing it.". He said, "Well,

I've had long conversations with your. ex- boss and we've greased the scales. for your going to officer candidate. school.". And I said, "No, sir. That's not going. to happen." And he said, "Who talked you. out of it?" And I said, "Me.". I said, "I'm not going." He said, "Why. not?" And I said, "Because I will go. when I want to go, not when you want me. to go, and I will earn it. I'm not going.

to have anybody grease anything for me.". And I walked out. And the next block. allocation came out, red line and initials again. Someone. went back to see him and I said, I. thought we had this discussion. and he said, "Yeah." He said, "But. Southeast Asia is not in your future.". And I said, "It should be. I'm due. overdue.".

And I said, "Why are you doing this?". And it turned out, and he's very open. with me, his son died at age 18 from. leukemia or something like that. And I. looked almost identical to his dead son. And he had taken it taken me on as. somebody to protect. And I said, "Don't do this. I will not. receive this." Well, Mhm. the next block.

allocation, Southeast Asia. That's how I got to Vietnam. So, you. wanted to go? I wanted to go. Yeah. That. was in. that was part of being in the military. for me. That was like that's where it. all is. It's Civil War. That's where. they send people in the army. Mhm. You. know that. And I felt I felt I was well. trained. I knew what I was doing.

Why not? Didn't make any sense to me that. somebody was keeping me out of it. It it. just it angered me in a sense. Were. there Were there a lot of people at that. time that actually wanted to go to the. war? Because nowadays we don't we don't. hear that. No. There was huge. demonstrations starting to build. Mhm. For resentment about it. Nobody wanted. to be drafted. Nobody wanted to. volunteer.

It was a bad war. Nobody wanted to be in. it. It was growing. This was uh let's see. 60 beginning of 67. And so no, it was not a good thing. But I felt I felt like it it's denial. It's like stupid. You got if you're in. the army and you're a volunteer, that's. what you do. You go where the war is.

You go where the fight is. You go where. you're needed. And so I went to Vietnam. And funny. thing happened when I got to Vietnam and. I walked in my first orderly room. that I had these orders in a packet that. said not to be diverted by anybody. no matter what their rank uh by order of. some general somewhere. The first thing. they tried to do was divert me. Divert me to a colonel who came in with.

a jeep and a 5-tonon and was looking for. 25 warm bodies. and he had blood on him and I said, "I'm. not going where he's going. Obviously, he's not very good at what he does.". So, I I I just walked away from him and. went to the tent of the guy who was. running the repo demo and just walked. into his tent, laid in his cot, and took. a nap.

My orders said not to be diverted, so I. took it seriously. Mhm. So, I finally. got my orders to go up to uh the 330th. radio recon in play coup area, central. highlands. And so when I got up there and I walked. in the orderly room, they said, "Oh, you're already in E6." And I said, "Well, yeah.". He handed me another E6 stripe. I said,

"What's this?" He said, "Well, that's. the bloodstripe we were going to give. you when you walked in.". You know what a bloodstripe is? What is. it? That back then it meant the guy you. were replacing was killed. Oh So. you got his rank to take over. And I. said, "I don't know anything about what. he was doing." They said, "Well, nevertheless, you're in charge of it.". And so when I met the first guys I met, I said, "I'm not in charge of you guys.

you're in charge of me cuz I've not been. here before. So until I'm comfortable, I'll do everybody else's job. But the LA. guy who's been here the longest, you're. in charge. So that's how I did it. And so. what was your what was your mission? My. mission in Vietnam was manyfold. One was predominantly.

um running out stations, what we call. outstations for direction pointing. We had some five or six HF highfrequency. direction pointing stations. and they were out of the way. They might. have six, possibly upwards of eight men. assigned to them, but they were huge. bunkers. in the center of an antenna field that. would do direction pointing.

And. getting from the outside of the antenna. field to the inside of one of those. bunkers usually required somebody coming. out and meeting you and saying, "Step. where I step.". because it there was no other defense. They had swing rack twin 50s on top of. the bunker and big search lights and a. lot of booby traps and a lot of mines. and stuff. And generally speaking, the.

enemy usually left it alone, but when. they decided they wanted to take one. out, it was Katy bar the door, that kind. of thing. A lot of support fire, which. is predominantly what the bunker was. for. because it was always danger close. stuff. Um, but nevertheless, it that's what I. did is I managed those things, those. sites and things like that. And we had a.

thing called an NPRD1 at the time. I. don't know if you are familiar with. that. I am not. An ARPD PRD1 was a. basically a radio with a rotational. antenna on top that does direction. finding in the HF area. It's uh at the time it was the most. modern stuff they had at the end of the. Second World War. Okay. So that piece of. equipment weighed 68 lb.

It was considered manpackable. Oh man. So you could dismantle it and. manpack it. back in the hard days. Problem was it had batteries. The freaking batteries weighed 60 lb a. piece. So it was like crazy. So the best we. could do is we would hard mount it in a. Jeep. And the Jeep that I I went to the me the. motorpool and selected a Jeep.

And I told the the motorpool sergeant, I. said, "You got any V8s laying around? I had a V8 put in my Jeep. I had the the. windshield taken off. I had a cutter bar. put up in the front, welded in the. front. Two layers of sandbags laid in it. It. was the fastest freaking Jeep on the. planet. And you know, this is something I never. understood. You're in a combat area.

You're in a heavily fortified combat. area. So, they dropped the speed limit. to 25 miles an hour because of all the. troops walking around. I'm not I'm not going down at. 25 mph. IEDs are set at 25 miles an hour. I'd blow through there at 70 and they'd. be going off, you know, half a mile. behind me. Or if my driver happened to.

hit a piece of cardboard in the road, I. usually beat him senseless with my. helmet. Was like, "No, no, 70 mph is. comfortable.". And they and they have these things. where they stop everybody to form up a. convoy. where they can mount uh. heavy mortar teams and a truck in the. front and a truck in the back and you. know all this protection for a convoy. And what do they do? They the bottom of.

the mountain pass going up the other. side. They hit the lead truck, the tail. truck, blast the bridge out of. condition, and then rake it as long as. they can before cover arrives. And cover is not very efficient in the. mountains anyway. So, no, we we come up for these convoys. and I'd pull out my special pass was an. intelligence guy and I'd say, "Move.

those barricades. We blow through there." I figure they're. never going to open up on us with just a. single jeep. Yeah. They're waiting for. that convoy. And so we'd be going down. the road to I don't know to the coast. out of the mountains out of an to the. coast and we'd we go by areas where you. could see them setting up their mortar. imp placements and their heavy gun imp. placements, their Russian heavy machine.

guns and stuff. Wow. We just blow. through. This is a single jeep. Yeah, single jeep. We might draw some ground. fire, but they couldn't hit us. Yeah, that kind of stuff. What kind of. intelligence ops were you running? Wanted to find the headquarters for most. of these units like the 144th, the 145th. North Vietnamese. uh division or whatever they call it. I. can't remember now.

um usually the larger units, the. headquarters units, we're looking for. their prime headquarters. Okay. And if. we could locate that by locating the. antenna first, their prime broadcast. antenna, then once we located that, then we could. go into the area and sus out where some. of their main units were. And then once we had built the schematic. of how they were laid out, we could call. in. you know. Okay. So, you guys were kind.

of triangulating on uh enemy HQs, right? And then. uh sometimes we got smaller units that. were operating the area that were doing. a lot of damage. They would bring us in. on that. I remember one and we took a lot of. photographs too sometimes when we saw. things that. were obviously enemy. active things. Um.

so this is almost maybe I mean. along the lines of what NSA is doing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Basically, but way up front. Yeah. And and. uh when I first got there, we lived in a. in the base camp, we lived in a hole in. the ground. It was actually a hole dug. in the ground for a GP medium. And there. were six guys in the hole living. together.

And so we just had the tent top spread. out with a trench dug around it. And we. had ammo crates for floor. So when it. got wet and mucky in the bottom, we. could walk around on the ammo crates and. it was dry. And we had a couple tent poles in the. center. And so we were sleeping right up. against the dugout wall. and we could sandbag our sleeping c. It. was really warm, comfortable, dry. We. get a rat in there every now and then,

but we found us a dog. Call him Big Red. I excuse me, Buck Sergeant Red. And uh. we turned him into an alcoholic. [Applause]. He got to liking beer so much. The most. the worst beer in the world. Uh, Blue Ribbon. I can't Blue Ribbon. Blue. Ribbon in the steel cans that rusted. But we give him a beer for any wrath.

that he brought us. Dead. He turned into such an alcohol. We'll work from here every morning. We'd throw the tent flap back and he'd. be like this, pause, sound asleep by the entry, two dead rats. laying in front of him. So, two paps. blue ribbon, beers for breakfast. Then. he was happy. That's awesome. And you'd.

see him around the unit sitting with his. ears like this staring at a rat hole, not moving like stone statue dog. That rat stick his nose out. He'd have. him. One more beer. I read uh that you were in a Hilo crash. in Vietnam. Yeah, you could call it a. crash. It was more or less like blown. out of the sky.

We we were I hissed a ride coming back. to Plecu. Um I didn't want to take a. a vehicle ride for some reason. It It. was just quicker. I want to get back to. Blu City. So I hitched the ride on a. helicopter and I had I had my rucks. sack. I had all my equipment with me. And so I was riding in this helicopter. In in Vietnam, the heat was so bad that.

helicopters back then with the smaller. engines just couldn't lift off. They had. to take like a an aircraft takeoff. They. had to move in ground effect like an. airplane. Once they got above a certain. height, it's like only four or 500 ft, they could operate like a helicopter cuz. the air got heavier. And so landing was the same problem. So. we were coming into play to land. So. we're cruising along the outside edge of.

the runway to where the helicopter. parking pad was and they waved us off. because they had a big cargo plane. coming in. So we moved over to the trees and went. to about 100 ft over the trees. Not above the trees. It's like around. 100 120 ft total. But we were over the. tops of the trees and the air was. cooler. So I was sitting on the side of the.

helicopter with my feet on the SC. and uh. I'm pretty sure we got hit with an RPG. right in the belly because. there was this white fireball. That's. all I remembered. And I woke up on the. ground and I had fallen through trees I. guess ricocheting off of limbs or. something. And but when I landed I. landed in this flat sitting position.

Um so I was sitting on the ground like. this with my rucks sack still on but my. rifle was laying way out here somewhere. I think I was still carrying the rifle. in. So I reached went to reach for it. and passed out from the pain cuz the. impact had jammed. my spine. had uh multifractured my spine to some. degree and I was in a lot of pain.

So I was was eventually able it was. right at dusk when this happened. So, I. was able to roll over cuz I was hearing. things in the bushes I didn't like. And all I had was my I had a knife and I. found a really good fist-sized rock. So, I crawled up into some bushes and. just laid there, you know, in the fetal. position, hoping if somebody found me, I wouldn't.

have to get into it. And uh. I was out there all night like that. And. then the next day they came in to. recover the wreckage I guess for parts. or something. And they found a number of. us still alive. There was So you weren't. the only survivor? I weren't the only. survivor. Just about everybody survived. There might have been one dead or. somebody that died later. I don't know.

I just know when I got to the mash unit, I was one of the fewer damaged people. I. just had a spine compression. That's what they call it. So, they put. me in traction. They actually put metal. pins in my skull and hooked wire. sandbags. And so, I was like taught over. this this uh. cot for. Oh, god. They had me there for like 2. weeks in traction.

and I started feeling pretty good. and then they had a bunch of people come. in wounded and they said, "Sorry, we're going to take you out of traction. We think you're going to be okay." They. took me out of traction. I stood up and. almost passed out because of the. recompression of standing up. And uh they gave me a couple shots and. they handed me a big bottle of. Percoetses. I remember it was like this.

big around about this tall. And they. said, "You're going to be all right. Take these. Go back to your unit and walk it off. Trick or treat. Trick or treat." So I. went back to the unit and that's what I. did. I walked it off. It was a lot of. pain, but it started easing. The more. percoets I took. Yeah. the better it. got. And. we even had some speed that we could.

some speed that we would take sometimes, which caused some problems because then. you couldn't get something to go to. sleep with. So, we all started drinking. Jack Daniels and throwing the the cap. away, that kind of thing. Chasing the dragon, which yeah, which I. really paid for when I got out of the. army. That's a much later story, but um.

I just learned to deal with it. A lot of guys in Vietnam saw some weird. things in the jungle. Uh you didn't have. to be in the jungle to see weird things. Really? My my first week there, I saw. probably one of the worst things I ever. seen in my life. I was in a a 3/4 ton sitting up front. We pulled up to an intersection of a. main road.

and the 3/4 was right behind a. uh what they call a la truck or a I. can't remember what they call them now. Some type of an indigenous vehicle. Yeah, it was like a motorcycle with. seats in the back for up to six people. Like a tuk tuk or something. Tuk tuk. Yeah, that's what they call him. Tuk. tuk. And it was a woman and a small boy in. the back and the the driver revving his.

engine. And it was a convoy of trucks. going through. and the convoy were all. low boys with tanks on them and APCs and. you know heavy equipment. and they're roaring they're blowing. through this intersection one behind the. other and sometimes there was a break. but the convoy kept going and this guy. got a break he I guess he thought he. could make it and he gunned the engine. and he popped the clutch and he got out. in the middle and it stalled.

Bang. The next convoy truck hit him. hard, spun him around, and the back. wheels of the trailer went over him. And then every truck behind that bang, bang. Every single one of them hit that. tuck tuck and started pounding it down. in size. to the point you cannot see the.

difference between the metal and the. bodies. It was just like a big spongy. mess in the middle of the road. No stops. Nobody. The convoy just kept. falling through there. And I've always thought, so they just didn't show up at home. Nobody could have known who they were. Yeah. You know, but nobody stopped. Nobody gave a They just.

It was nothing. A bang. That was. nothing. And I can't I can't get that out of my. head. That That was my introduction to. Southeast Asia. that and little kids, innocent kids. I since then, it's kind. of interesting. I probably wouldn't do a thing for an. adult in trouble. I just Yeah. Okay.

But kids and dogs. or cats, innocent animals, innocent. children. are what hurts. That's what drives me crazy. So if I see a child being mistreated or. something, takes a lot of willpower to walk away. Mhm. without pounding somebody into the. pavement. Yeah. You know, I just can't I.

can't deal with that. But grown adults, I don't give a. You asked for it, you earned it. You. know, you're that stupid. Well, Yeah, that's life. I I've always felt that way ever since. ever since my military career. And it's a it's probably unfair. It's. probably. bad thinking. I don't know.

Well, I mean, don't you think that that. maybe kind of mindset develops as you. experience war and see. see the lengths that humans will go to. to Yeah. to to get what they want, prove. a point, egos get involved in and Oh, yeah. you know, and and and but but even. just the war, you know, by by traveling. around the world and I mean, you had. some I don't know what you were doing in.

the Bahamas, but you know, the Bahamas, Vietnam, I mean, you you I've been all. over the world. You start to see. humanity for what it is. Yeah, I think. so. But I got to tell you that the. average human being walking on the. street has no control over what the. governments do. It's the politicians that start wars. Yeah. It's the military have to finish. them, clean them up, end them, however. you want to look at it. Mhm.

Uh I had I had a dinner with. oh probably five five generals and the. rest were colonels, Russian generals and. colonels. And of course they're heavy into the. vodka and whatnot. There's a reason for. that, by the way. They drink three. vodkas. Whoever got up and left the room. were spies. KGB, FSB, internal security. Mhm. If they have a.

third drink, they can't testify in. court. So, they get up and leave when the third. drink's poured. And uh after they leave is one thing yet. interesting. because they all agreed it's politicians. that destroy a country from the inside. out. It's never the people that are willing. to die for the country. It's. politicians.

And they dislike politicians almost as. much as I do. I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, I. really do. I dislike the idea that somebody can. just arbitrarily. start a war based on some stupid policy. without sitting down and talking about. it or talking it out. It's corrupt. because the people they represent. shouldn't be. set up for that or or subjected to that.

without to say so. And I understand government has to do. certain things. Government has to set. certain policies, all that kind of crap. But it's usually for the good of the big. companies, the economy, money, power, and it degrades into worse stuff. You. know, it took me a long time to come to.

that conclusion and realization. And uh. it's hard. It's hard to get there. Yeah, it really is because your idealism gets. in the way. You want to believe it's. better than that. You want to believe. that people are smarter than that, that. people are a more aware of what the hell. is going on. Most people aren't aware. They don't want to be aware. It's like. inconvenient. Mhm. It affects their.

decision making at work. It affects. their decision making with regard to. their family, their income. Everything. goes to. security. Secure first, then deal with. those issues. But you never get to those. issues. Yeah. It's always too much else. that goes on. You've heard me talk about my passion. for ketone supplements and how they.

boost your workouts by helping your body. use fatty acids for fuel. I take a shot. of HVMN's ketone supplement before my. morning workout and before I record my. show. It's not an energy drink, but what. it does do is it gives me the energy and. the clarity that I need to get through. my day. I don't drink coffee, so this is. my go-to when I need that edge. Ketone. IQ comes in convenient shots and are. great for workouts or when you need to. be in the zone. Some of the world's best.

athletes rely on this to improve their. performance because it doesn't contain. sugar or caffeine, but it gives them the. same benefits. I wish I had this when I. was on active duty. I have more. endurance. I don't get the crash and it. helps curb my appetite when I'm doing a. long day of interviews without a food. break. Folks, HVMN is offering my. audience 30% off your first subscription. order of Ketone IQ at hvmn.com/shan. Again, visit hvmn.com/shan.

and subscribe upon checkout for 30% off. Find Ketone IQ in your local Sprouts or. Earthbar stores nationwide. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There's a common misconception that. relationships have to be easy to be. right. Well, I don't think that's true. I think that the best relationships. happen when both people actually put in.

the work to make it the best. relationship. Therapy can be a place to. work through challenges you face in. life, in all of your relationships, whether with friends, work, your. significant other, yourself, or anyone. It's helpful for learning positive. coping skills and how to set boundaries. It empowers you to be the best version. of yourself. And it isn't just for those. people who've experienced tremendous. amounts of trauma. If you're thinking of. starting therapy, give Better Help a. try. It's entirely online. It's designed.

to be convenient, flexible, and suited. to your schedule. Just fill out a brief. questionnaire to get matched with a. licensed therapist and switch therapists. at any time for no additional charge. Become your own soulmate, whether you're. looking for one or not. Visit. betterhelp.com/shan. today. Get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp hp.com/shan.

Did when did you come to that. conclusion, Joe? I came to that. conclusion. when I got into the special project. So. after after Vietnam. Yeah. Oh well yeah. a long time after Vietnam. I spent. better than seven years in Europe. and uh spent uh 14 months in Thailand up.

in New Orani. which was basically the CIA headquarters. for La the operations in Laos and. Cambodia. And I lived in the village of Nagai for. off and on for quite a few months which. is where all the operatives lived going. in and out of BN and other places in up. country. So I met a lot of the uh. uh. the indigenous. folks who were smugglers and gun runners.

and. drug sellers and that sort of thing. Did you have an experience with some. type of a medicine man over there? Uh, I'm trying to think. I had an experience with a a really bad. doctor. Oh, wait a minute. No, I had an. experience with a medicine man. Um,

actually, actually, I didn't have that. experience. Let me back up. I had a I. had an event that happened. when I was living in Nai. Um. I lived in a a hut that was off the. ground in Nai. It was probably. 500 years old. This hut, it was uh 15. maybe 17 ft off the ground. You went up. and down through a ladder, a center hole.

in the hut. And when you got up at. night, you pull the ladder up, shut the. trap door, and put a pin through it. So. that was security. Below you, uh, there was a walkway to. the ladder, but inside that wired in. area under the hut is where you kept the. pigs. Pigs are a great alarm. You wake a pig. up in the middle of the night, they start going crazy.

So they make great alarms. So everybody. keeps pigs under their hut. And uh so I slept on a pad that was on. the floor and I had a little candle. It's usually lit. And I had a beam that went across my. head maybe this high above my head. So I. sat up too quick. It hit the beam. But on this side of the. beam where my head would hit were two.

pins and I had a combat shotgun. laying up there with a alternating solid. slug trip XX. That was my go-to weapon if something. happened in the middle of the night. And this one night, well, I had an open. balcony. It had you wanted a window, you. just cut a window with a chainsaw. Um.

the bugs weren't bad because I had uh. lizards hanging off the ceiling that. would run over and suck up the the bugs. flying in. Uh. anyway, it was a nice place to sleep and live. And uh. I had a cook and a maid and a gardener. and a guard and I don't know what else. And it was like 70 bucks a month. So.

uh I was sleeping there and you know how. you come awake sometimes and you know. there's somebody in the room with you. Mhm. But your eyes are shut and it. something wakes you up. It's probably. some very tiny noise that doesn't fit or. something. But I became consciously. awake and aware something was in the. room with me and I was laying with my. eyes shut. So I had this whole thing in. my head. I'm going to roll to the right.

taking the gun with me and I'm going to. bring it to my chest and rack around as. I roll over the candle to put the light. out. and whatever's standing in the room, if. it's standing in the room, I'm gonna hit it with a solid slug. first. And that's what I did. And everything. worked like clockwork. And it was this figure of a human. standing at the foot of the pad on the.

other side of the trap door, which was still locked and pinned. By. the way, pigs are not made of sound. Nothing. And so I hit this thing square in the. chest. I mean right here with a solid. slug and it slammed it against the wall. It dropped in one knee and then stood up. again. And I went in my head I was. thinking, "Shit, what kind of body armor. is that?".

So I shot it again with a trip X and it. almost dropped to a knee and then stood. back up again and then took off for the. balcony and I think I hit it a third. time as it was going over the balcony. and I'm a pretty good shot. I went to the balcony and looked over. expecting to see a body laying there. It was up on its feet heading for the. jungle already. And I was all I could.

think of was I want the armor. Like I couldn't think what the hell was. that. And then I talked to the village chief. about it. He gave it a name. I can't remember what. he called it, but he said it was like an. assassin. that people could. take a plate of food or something into. this place in a special place in the. jungle, put a name on top and lay the.

plate of food out there and this thing. would read the message and hunt that. person down and assassinate. I thought. nice story. but I couldn't find any trails or. anything so I couldn't do anything about. it. So that was in. 1972. Was there was there any remnants. of anything inside the hut? Absolutely. nothing. Just shells. Just empty shell. casings. No holes in the wall. Nothing.

So, you know, I I could understand. some flattened rounds or something from. it. You know, Triple X is just basically. 10 30 round ball peen. that had to do something. Yeah. But it. didn't. And and whatever this armor is, it was taking it in and holding it in. some way. So, it was probably soft some. kind of soft armor. I I don't know.

But. wow, I I didn't know what to do with. that. So that was 72. Flash forward. to. probably 10 years ago now at the Monroe. Institute where I teach remote viewing. and whatnot. I met a guy there at one of my talks. uh he was attending a gateway program.

and uh he was a cryptozoolologist. from he said he was doing work for the. Smithsonian at the time. I don't know if. that was the same time he was in. Thailand or not, but he was a. cryptozoolologist. They hunt for animals. that have never been seen before or bugs. or stuff like that that no one's ever. seen. and he was telling me about this little. deer that walked out of the jungles in.

Vietnam at the end of the war. No one. had ever seen one. It was the size of a. dog, little bitty thing. And it had. horns that came out of its snout and. went up its face around the eyes and. came over like two hooks. and it bas that was their nose. They. actually breathe through that while they. were eating water crest cuz the water. would always be up to here. So they breathe through these horns. while they ate water crust. That's was.

their favorite food. Evidently, no one had ever seen one before. No one. had ever eaten one or skinned it or. anything. There was no evidence that had. ever been seen before by anybody. And they walked out of the jungle at the. end of the war. And I was like, how does. something do that? Go through the whole. war of Vietnam and survive, you know? It's like with all the ark lights and. the bombing and the shelling and wow.

And he was telling me about that. He. said, "But that wasn't the most unusual. thing that happened." I said, "What was. that?" He said, "Well, we were way up in. upcountry Thailand.". Um, I think he said it was like due west of. uh, Odor. And. he said we were in we were under the. protection of a paramilitary police.

force out of Thai Thailand. And they would set up a camp. And they. had these tents that they were walled. tents they would set up. And they had. two Cs in the tent. And so wherever they set up to do a. scouring of the jungle for these animals. and bugs and things, they would put up. three rolls of Constantina wire and. search lights and all that kind of stuff. and provide protection cuz there are a. lot of bandits up there and whatnot.

And he said, "I was awakened one night. by my partner in the bed next to me in a. cop next to me." And he said, "When I. looked over, there was this human figure. on top of him strangling him and he was. choking.". So he said, I can't remember what. caliber pistol he said he had, but he he. reached in his boot, pulled his pistol. out, and shot this figure in the side.

twice, and it rolled off onto the floor and got. up and ran out of the tent. And by then. all this the lights came on and all the. guards fired some rounds in the air and. this thing shot across the area went. over the three rolls of concertina and. vanished into the jungle. They couldn't say anything about it, but. his friend had ripped out big chunks of. hair in both hands which they put.

together and put in an envelope, mailed. it back to the whoever whatever lab they. used. So the next morning they found a blood. trail. So they followed it and he said it went. for a few kilometers and it popped into. a village. and they went to the village head. headman. and talked to him and he said no nobody. was shot in the village that he was. aware of but his medicine man was sick.

So they said can we talk to your. medicine man and they said sure. So they went and talked to the medicine. man. and the medicine man was really ill. He. was laying in the bed and he had two. bullet holes in the side. but he was in his 80s. He was in his 80s. 80s. Not a hair on his body.

I don't know what to make of that. He. doesn't know what to make of that. But. then that's when I told him about my. experience. in 72. So. yeah, I mean you got to wonder about. that stuff. I I don't. I can't attest to anything other than. the fact I know I hit it three times or. twice anyway. and it didn't even slow it down and he.

shot it twice in the side and the. minister man had two bullet holes in. him. So, so that was that was in 1971. 72 for me with him. It was like 10 years. ago when he related this to me and he. just come back. So, this is 52 years. ago. Yeah. 52 years. You still have no answers? No. answers. Would I mean that's that's the. kind of thing that will that would haunt.

me for the rest of my life. would I mean. I want to go back there and see if we. can find it. What do you think that may. have been? I don't know. I I I think it's a mixture of things. I. think it's somebody who. fulfilled the worst nightmares of people. dressed in a body armor suit that could. take the rounds. Maybe.

when he was younger. could take the rounds better. than when he was older. Maybe put the. suit on wrong or it didn't have good. side protection. because most body armor doesn't have. good side protection. Mhm. It has good. front, good back protection, but no. lateral protection. So, if you're going to get if you're. going to like President Reagan, he when he was hit was uh ricochet off.

the door frame or something, caught him. in the side. You know, he's wearing body armor under. his Mhm. his jacket or his coat. So, I I. think it's a combination of that, maybe covering it with some kind of hair. off another real animal or something cuz. the the report he claims they got back. was uh dog hair, no specific.

species. So, if they couldn't isolate. the species, then it could have been off. a number of different animals, you know, all mixed together, that kind of thing. So, I I think it's a. a local. uh. who knows, you know, I just don't know. But I think it would be interesting to. go go back there and find find. definitely find out. But even even a 80. an 82y old Yeah. couldn't have jumped.

three villager. Well, if he was in really good shape and was. taking drugs, maybe. Yeah. Even today's. body armor to take a slug. Oh, no. You. know, I mean, no, he he'd have to be 19. years old, physically better fit than I. was, and the armor had to be impeccably good. I mean, just like. nobody's business. Mhm. I I'd back in my.

memory was always thinking, God, be. great to have a piece of that armor, just see how it's made or how it's. constructed. Um, wow. I have a retired colonel friend who. came up with an idea of using spider. wire, which was the new fishing line. and a new weaving concept to make body. armor lighter and more efficient. He worked on that his whole career as.

part-time. and came up with some pretty good ideas. in terms of the weaving methodology. because it would tighten up as it was. hit, you know, and but the weave was. very tight. It wouldn't come apart if. some of the strands got broken, that sort of thing. He had some good. ideas there. I don't know what happened. to him, but. he he really had some good ideas. But. anyway, that's digressing. Um,

I just I've always wanted to like go. back. I would want to go back, too. Yeah. What the hell that was, but um it scared. the be Jesus out of me when it happened. And, uh, I didn't feel particularly. quick about wanting to run off in the. jungle after that thing. I'll bet. I'll. bet I'd be shooting for the ankles, baby. or a head shot. One or the other. Yeah.

Uh triple X for the head and solid sug. for the ankles. I don't know. Wow. That. is uh I don't even know what I do. That's something. Yeah. I would love to. know how many have you heard of other. people besides you and the other. gentlemen? the one guy and me. I I never. expected to hear it again from anybody, but when the guy told me he was a. cryptozoolologist and was in that area. and then said, "Oh, this really weird. thing happened." He told me about it, I.

was like, "Wow.". Yeah, there it is. When When was your. When was your first. when did you get poisoned? Was that in this time frame? No, that. was uh. uh let me think a minute. That was uh after Thailand. That was No, I'm sorry. It's before.

Thailand. It was my. towards the end of my first tour in. Germany. Uh tour being three years. And uh I was working in uh. well I can't talk about what I was. working in but um I could meet my wife. every now and then. So. a friend of mine brought her to the. restaurant where we met which was in.

Brunzi. which was across the El River in. Austria. Really nice restaurant. Uh, Brunau is. the same city that Hitler was born in, born over a butcher shop. Go figure, you. know. So, but this was a great. restaurant. So, I asked him to stick. around, have dinner with us since he had. brought her and had driven so far. Uh, we were probably 200 km from where.

the unit was that I was assigned to. So, we ordered dinner and we had before. dinner drinks and all I did was take a. couple sips my drink and. started feeling really bad and I didn't. want to be I felt like I was going to. start barfing any minute and I didn't. want to do that in a restaurant. So, I. headed for the front door. and when I got to the front door I.

remember hitting it with my hand. It was. a glass swinging door. The door swung open and it was like a. pop. It actually like a snap like you snap. your fingers. And I was standing on a cobblestone. street. and it was a warm rain and it was. falling, but I didn't feel like I was. getting wet. So, I went like this. and noticed the rain was going through.

my hands and I said, "Whoa, now that's strange." And when I looked. up, I saw this body half in and half out. of this door, but I wasn't making that connection. right away. So, I uh kind of drifted over what. should have been a giveaway, but I. wasn't paying attention to that. I was. paying attention to the body and I saw. it was me laying on the concrete.

at the entry and then the guy that. brought my wife to the restaurant came. out and grabbed me and pulled me up into. his lap. He dropped to the pavement, pulled me up in his lap. and felt for a pulse somewhere in my. neck, I guess. And uh then he started yelling at me. like, "Breathe, sucker." And he smacked. me in the chest cuz we didn't have CPR.

back then. Nobody was trained in any of. that stuff. And every time he hit me in the chest, I'd be back in my body. looking up at him. in this incredibly intense pain. And I'd be saying to him, I like, "Stop." I was trying to get the words. out and I couldn't get them out and I'd. be standing outside my body looking down. again. and he hit me in the chest and I'd be. back in my body in this in excruciating.

pain and I go please and I'd be out of. my body looking down again. and I guess my wish came true because I. stayed out then I just watched and he. kept hitting me on the chest. Nothing. was working. And then uh he disappeared. and my ex-wife was down on her knees and. she was crying. and then this Volkswagen pulled up and I.

think that's what he had brought her to. the dinner in. So he jerked me up off the ground. He's my generator mechanic. So, he was. really a big guy. And he just jerked me. up off the ground, threw me over his shoulder, and threw me. in the backseat of the Volkswagen. And I'm standing outside watching all. this. And then they took off and I was.

like, whoa. Some flying along beside the car going. slow. You're in a full out of body. experience. Fullblown out of body. This. is the first one you've had. first one I. ever had my whole life. I'm yelling, "Stop, stop." And then the. next thing I knew, I was kind of like in. the backseat of the car hovering, which you can't do with your whole body. But I had that sense.

and I saw him blow through the back then. they had uh customs from Austria and the. Germany and Germany and Austria that. kind of thing. He blew right through the. customs check. Hung a hard right. Now we're back in. uh Germany. He drove for quite a while. back across through another customs into. Austria. and then back through another customs.

into Germany. He had to go around the. city or something. But where we wound up was over near a. city called uh Pesau. It's way down in. the southern tip of Bavaria. and he went to a. what's it called? Clinique or clinic or. something. It it's not a full-blown. hospital. It's like a clinic. And he pulled me out of the car, threw. me over his shoulder, and went to the.

door, and the door was locked. And I was. like, I'm thinking watching this, isn't. that just like a hospital to be locked. up when you need it? They start kicking the door with his. foot. really hard. And this doctor rolls up to the door in. a wheelchair and I'm thinking, "No, this. has got to be a dream." That's what I. started thinking. But the doctor unlocked the door and I.

found out later that's what they do. They locked the door after 7:00 or 8:00. at night. and uh brought him in. He laid me on a table in an emergency. room with the big lights and all that. stuff. Were Are you still out of body at. this point? Yeah, I'm hovering in that. room. watching them cutting my clothes off and. sticking all kinds of things up in my. throat and up my nose and all stuff.

So, I don't know what the hell's going. on, but I'm I'm feeling a lot of heat on. the back of my neck. And I thought, "This must be the. emergency light, and I must be bumping. up against it." That's what my thought. was. I turned around and I was enveloped in a. white light. The light was. the brightest light I've ever been in, but the least disturbing.

It was like total complete. comfort. It's like being in the hand of God. And this voice said, "It's okay.". And I was like, "Yeah, this is perfect." It says, "But you. can't stay." I went, "I'm looking for. something to hold on to. You're not. pulling me out of here. I'm I'm actually.

looking for a handle or something I can. hold on to. And I suddenly woke up. I sat up and I. was totally naked under a sheet and I. had tubes and wires hooked all up to my. body. And I looked around and there was. this German patient laying in this bed. next to me. And I looked at him and I. said, "Hey, it's okay. God's a white. light. You can't cease to exist.". Out the door the patient went. In comes.

the doctor. So, you're awake? Not anymore. Off I went again. I woke up the next day. It was daylight. and I was on a gurnie and I had a mask. on my face that was actually taped down. and I was strapped to this gurnie, arms. and all up on the back of seats and it. was a stretch limo. They had actually put me in a stretch.

limo when they had tinfoil. taped over all the windows. and off we went. And I'm yelling or. trying to yell. through the mask, where are we going? What's going on? And I just fell back into the comfort of. whatever was going on. It didn't awaken. again until much later. Then it was dark. again. And when I woke up that time, I was in a.

hospital bed in a room. that had some great views of gardens and. stuff outside. And what what it was, it was the end. room at a rest home. They had leased the. entire wing, which was empty except for. that end room. And I was in the end room. and was a psychiatrist there. And he said, "You've had a an.

interesting experience. I don't want you to talk now." I said, "Bullshit. I want to know where I am, what's going on, etc." And he said, "Well, I can't tell. you that." And I said, "Well, who can. get him in here? Let's talk about it.". No, you need to relax. You need to rest. And I just kept getting more and more. hyper. So they pulled him out of there.

and the next morning I fell asleep. again. The next morning when I woke up. there was a new psychiatrist in the room. and he was sitting there and he looked. over at me and he smiled and he said. welcome back. And I said, "Who are you?" And he told. me, "Jternal so and so. I'm a staff. psychiatrist.". Uh, I think he said he was with the. 66MI, but I may be inserting. that. I can't remember.

Uh, but he said, uh, if you want to talk, I'm here to talk. And he just pretty much left me alone. And so I started asking him how long I'd. been there and stuff. And he gave me. straight up answers. And I got to liking. him. And then he leaned over and he. said, "What you want to do is you want to try. to be normal here if you expect to.

leave.". And sat back. and I thought about it a while. I leaned. over to him and I said, "What's normal? Tell me what's normal and I'll be as. normal as you want me to be.". because this whole thing's a trip for. me. I thought I'd been heavily drugged and. and I probably had been up to that. point. Um,

but they didn't know what happened to me. and I don't know what happened to me. All they assumed was there had been. irreparable brain damage because. every time they asked me what happened, I kept saying. I went and I was with God who's a white. light. You can't cease to exist. That's all I know. And it's the most. comfortable place you could ever be.

Okay, get a little more rest. They weren't buying that. They thought I. was brain damaged. So, I started saying, "Where's my wife? Don't worry about her. We'll get her her in here eventually.". um what they had done. I was the de detachment commander at the. time of a border site which I can't go.

into in any depth. and they had let everybody at my border. site know and there that's probably at. that time I think I had 13 people. assigned. think that I was dead. that I had died as a result of what. happened at the at the uh restaurant. So,

turns out they even let my wife think I. was dead, too. Holy Cuz they. didn't know what had happened. And that's when the thinking came out, well, maybe this was a. an attempted. assassination or something. And I kept. saying, "No, it's something in what I. drink. Maybe it I kept saying maybe it's. I'm I'm allergic to something in my.

drink.". Well, the closest I came was they said. it was probably a binary poison. I said, "What the hell is a binary. poison?" And the guy told me that the. person I was talking to about it one the. psychiatrist. he was a medical doctor. he said it's basically two enzymes you. give me you get a enzyme with your. breakfast. it's in the scrambled eggs so everybody.

that has scrambled eggs that morning. with you gets enzyme A. Enzyme B comes later that day. Enzyme A is s stored in your liver. Enzyme B you get in your before dinner. drink as does everyone else that orders. that drink. So that it's not you can't you don't. target somebody specifically but in.

reality you do. Only the targeted individual gets both. enzymes. When they combine in the liver, they. create a third enzyme which creates a. stroke, a massive heart attack, something that mimics a natural death. And that this poison was developed by. the USSR, stolen by us,

polished by us would be a way of putting. it. profession stolen back by the USSR. So, nobody knows who did what to whom. And that's what they were trying to sort. out. Plus, they were. trying to sort out whether or not. whether or not I had brain damage. And so, over the course of about a week, they. decided that there wasn't significant.

brain damage. that I had actually had that experience. and that I had actually been out of. body. All those things had actually happened. And that was due to the psychiatrist I. had who had evidently dealt with other. people who had had out of significant. out-of- body effects from near-death. experiences. and he convinced them that of that. So I. was reassigned to the 66MI in Munich.

That's when my wife was brought in. Now you you had later been. you had later been trained on how to. control. an out-of- body experience. Am I. correct? Yes. I was trained by Robert. Monroe who actually wrote the book on. out of body.

um Journeys Out of the Body by Robert. Monroe. He actually brought it to the public. forefront. Um I'm sure many people had that. experience. They never talked about it. until he wrote his book. And uh so department when I was. uh when I was judged to be an excellent. remote viewer, they knew that I had been having.

spontaneous out of bodies ever since. that event. So hold on before how would. that get triggered? Oh, there is no trigger. That's the. problem. So it would just happen. It. would just happen. Does it still happen? Yeah. I still have spontaneous out of. bodies every now and then. Uh. there's a way to initiate them. which I haven't done since the project. terminated.

Actually, since I have it done since I. did a couple targets for Department of. Defense, DoD, they what they did is they actually came. out and hired Bomb Monroe to teach me. how to initiate control my out of. bodies. They wanted to see if intelligence could. be collected that way that would be even. better than remote viewing, more.

defined. So. what I did for many many months is I. would leave Fort me after my remote. viewing on a Thursday night, drive to. uh Virginia. to uh the Nolly's Fort area of Virginia. where the Monroe Institute is located. And uh. I would get up early on Friday morning. and then Friday all day Friday, Saturday.

and Sunday I would work with Bob Monroe. in his lab. I'd start very early in the morning and. we work all day just doing exercises. where he was teaching me how to initiate. an out of body and control it. Hard work, really difficult. uh not so much initiating them but. controlling them as a How how do. you initiate that?

You lay in a certain position and you. try to generate a. repetitive. vibration that starts at your feet. and it it like runs up your body to the. top of your head and back down to your. feet. Most people when they get this get. uncomfortable and they move around and. it stops. If you generate it and it runs up to the.

head and down to the feet, you can keep. it going. You can energize it. You can. put more energy behind it to the point. that you eventually separate from your. body. Roll out of your body so that you're. looking down at your body. Or you. pass through a wall and you're outside. floating like in some suspended.

state of disbelief. because it it's as real as you and I are. sitting here talking when you're out of. body and completely out of body. If. you're if you're not generating a fear. of it or you're not. falling victim to. being afraid of what might happen, that. sort of thing. So, you need to be in. full confidence. Yes. Initially, you. have a like I had a sense every time I.

separated from my body that there was. something evil in the room, something. base. evil. and you couldn't. deal with in the room with me. And I asked Bob about it and he'd say. what I'd be inside this black cube. shielded box laying on the bed. He'd be. in a different room monitoring me and. he'd say, "It's okay. Just go with it.".

And I'd say, "But what is that?" And. he'd say, "You'll figure it out." That's. all he would ever say. you'll figure it. out. And it's something you have to deal with. yourself. And he knew that. And at some point when I was hovering. above my body getting this just. overwhelming feeling of base. ugly thing in the room with me.

I rolled over to confront it and it was. my physical body underneath me. So your perceptions of. baseness and ugliness and everything. about. this evil. is your physical presence. What's kind. of interesting, very interesting cuz. when you're out of body, it's a higher. form of sensing, a higher form of being.

The problem with it is the next thing. you have to control is how to go. somewhere and do something. You can go out of body and the first. thing that catches your attention is a. chandelier in the next room. But the chandelier when you pass into it. is the most glorious thing you've ever. seen in your whole life because you're. collecting everything about it into your.

sense. your sense of it and and so. it's like you just want to gravel in it. Everything is. better than what you are. I mean, you. just you just want to capture all of it. Uh things of beauty are 10 times more. beautiful and things that you would. normally not pay any attention to are.

the most gorgeous things on the planet. It's hard to not be distracted in the. out-of- body condition. So, I did that and and then Monday. morning at 4:00 a.m. I get up and drive. back to Fort Me. Can Can you Can you. feel. Can you feel energy flow? You can feel. everything in the out of body condition. for instance, uh,

and. once you get control of it, then Bob. would start giving me things to do. He'd. say, "Go to the location in the envelope, and. I'd go to the whatever that location. was, and I'd be in the out-of- body state, and I'd say I'd report to him what I was. finding.". On this one occasion, he sent me to uh the Basilica in Rome.

It was in the envelope, the altar in the. center of the Basilica of Rome. So I landed there in the out of body. condition and there was a beam of white. light came through the center of the. dome. and just splattered on the floor. It fill the whole room with light. And I told him, "This is a place of.

light. It's a column of just what looks. like liquid energy light coming through. the center of a dome.". And he said, "Put your hand in it.". Put my hand in it. I went, "Oh, wow." And he said, "What are you. feeling?" And I said, "Perfection.".

What do you mean? I don't know. Don't want to move. Just want to be here. It felt like uh unconditional love, perfection. Then I said, "Housed in a box of broken. glass. or something like that. Okay, fine. Pull your hand out. Why?

Because I said so. I'll come in there and jerk you out of. that bed. No, he didn't say that. But he'd say, "It's time to leave or. something." And I would do that. But we. we did that for quite a while. And then. people showed up while I was in the box. and I was taking a nap cuz we had been. working for quite a while and this is. months later. They showed up to test me.

And so. I got two targets which I was tested on. And uh I did the two targets, gave them wrote it all out afterwards. and uh gave it to the. representatives from the DoD. and uh after which they said don't do. this anymore.

What is I mean what what is your. reaction to that? My reaction to that. is, "Oh, you don't like the result, so now I'm not supposed to do it. anymore.". If it had been the result you wanted, then I would be doing it some more. That's how I felt in my head and. everything. Um, the one target, the second target that I.

did. Let me, if you don't mind, can I. rewind? Sure. So, you were poisoned in. an assassination attempt. You had an out-of- body experience. Then. they wanted to study you at some in the. wing of some psych ward or hospital or. something under under um medical. supervision. I don't think it was study. I think they were trying to determine. whether I had. irreversible brain damage or whether or.

not I was still sane and straight. From. there you. went to be trained on by Bob Monroe on. out of MI experiences. From there. I finished a complete another tour, okay, in Germany, northern Thailand, did some things in other countries. and then came back to the States,

made warrant, was in charge of my MOS. and then recruited by the psychic. program. developed my psychic abilities to the. point that some have said it's the best. in the world. And that's when they decided, well, maybe it would be even better if you. could go out of body to a target. Okay. And collect data. Let's let's stay in.

chronological order if if uh if that's. okay. I would like to revisit this. Why. do you think that so many people who. have out-of- body experiences, I've had. several on the show who have had out-of-. body experience in combat from being. shot in the head or Yeah. leg blown off. I can understand it. Why do you think. that? Why is it a near-death experience. that seems to always trigger the initial. out of body experience?

I think it's as close to death as you. can ever come and still be here. That's what I think. Now, can it be generated? Yeah, you could. generate it, but only within limited. circumstances. in terms of targeting something. Uh. the the second target I did is a good.

example. Um. they gave me a picture of a building. and uh they said, "We're not going to. tell you where this building is. Your. your charge. here. The the mission. a find the building. Once you found it, countries, nobody cares. Find this building. Once. you find the building,

go to the I can't remember was second or. third floor, pass through the wall, go down the hallway, find the bank vault. door, pass through the vault door. into what's a we'll call it a lab. Go to the northwest corner and there's a. table and on the table is an object. Push your face into the object. Collect.

as much data as you can. Wake yourself. up and draw it to detail in scale on a. piece of paper. That was my mission. It took me 2 and 1/2 weeks of out of. bodies just to find the building. And when I found the building, it took. three or four out of bodies to get to. the vault room. But I was finally able to pass through. the vault door, which is an experience.

in itself. Passing through a vault door, you can. actually feel it. It's like peeling your. way through an onion with your molecular. shape. it. I don't know how to explain. that, but it's like. you can feel every molecule as you pass. through it. I don't think it's so much the material. as it's the denial of access.

that does that to you. I I don't I can't. explain it. But you get inside the room and you go. to the northwest corner. I'm not sure I. was at the northwest corner. I just went. to wherever the table was. and there was a object about this size. on the table and I pushed my face into. it and I memorized it in detail. Tried to understand. how the parts in her worked with each.

other. That's that kind of thing. And then woke myself up and I went in. And I had a drafting table in my home. and I drew a detailed picture of it. and I rolled it up, put it in a tube and. mailed it to the people that had tasked. me. Uh they came out some weeks later, two. guys, and they said, "We have some.

questions you want to ask you." And I. said, "Fine." They said, "Where did you. take high energy physics?" And I said, 'I have never taken high energy physics. anywhere. Okay, who do you know that's a high. energy physicist? And I said, I know one. guy, Ed May. He's my good buddy from the. lab, LFR, Labour Fundamental Research. I've known him in the remote viewing. area since I started.

I said, I know him. He's a low energy. physicist. I don't know any high energy. f. Okay. Uh, where do you check your books out? What. libraries? And I was like, ah, come on. I'm starting to think, you don't believe. what I did. You think I just psychically figured out. what it was, and I've asked people in. detail about it?

No, we just really want to know where. you sign your books out. So, I gave him. permission letters to go to the two. libraries I used and ask what books did. he sign out? That sort of thing. I think they were very badly misled when. they saw what books I signed out. Um, so. I uh.

got the idea that they didn't believe. what happened and it pissed me off. So I. said I could build something better than. what I saw. What did you see? I'm not sure. some kind of a trigger or. something for a device of some kind. I. don't know. But I knew I could build one. better just by going into light fiber. This is a copper wire thing. I said I.

could speed it up a 100,000 times with. light fiber. In fact, I could make it so. fast it'll get warm when it runs or hot. even and melt down. So, I'd have to put. it in an acrylic cube and run coolant. through it. So, I did all that and I. drew it in detail, but it was down to. about twice the size of a pack of. cigarettes. and I drew it to scale in detail with.

lots of notes and stuff. The big thing. was I. there was a trigger in it. I don't know if there are certain things. that if you put too much power to them, it'll kill a city, you know, to shut all. the power down. It's like the big lights. over a football field. If you just snap. a switch and turn them all on at one. time, the city goes dead, goes dark. So,

they have these switches that are slow. build switches. They come on very slowly. and the lights come on very dim and they. start brightening and eventually they. come up to operating speed. That way the. light doesn't explode when it's suddenly. lit and all the power going to the. lights and that sort of thing. Well, I needed one of those switches and. I couldn't find one. I went to three or. four different electronic places.

So, I finally found a switch that would. work and I drew that into the plan. and I roll it up, put it in a tube and. mail it. They showed up the next day. Non-disclosure agreements. Never promised never to draw this again, ever. Don't show this to anybody. Don't talk about it in detail with. anybody. Blah blah blah. So, I signed all their.

papers and said bye. I've never been. tasked with another out-of- body target. Can I ask why you sign those papers? Because I didn't give a. Did it bother you that somebody was. having you sign documents. basically saying, "We're going to limit. your mental capacity." No, because I can. still go out of body anytime I want. I. can still do things out of body. I just.

don't tell people about it. Where was. the building? I don't know. I honestly. don't. How did you find it? I don't know the answer to that either. I just kept looking. Everywhere I went. out of body, I just kept looking. How. did you begin the search? The search? Well, I started in this country. Mhm. and I went to Canada and then I went to. Mexico and then I spread out from there. I just started looking for.

something identifiable. and uh I think there's an inherent. way that out of body works. to get you. to what you're looking for. if you can maintain the focus long. enough. When you begin the search and you're out. of body, are you is it like a bird's. eyee view? Are you straight level? I. think it's a.

in the out of body condition, it's like you can observe a lot of. things simultaneously. It's you're not limited to what we're. limited to in the body. Is it intuition? Yeah, for lack of a better word, it's. more than that, but that comes close to. it. You're experiencing multiple locations.

at the same same time, right? And you're. able to process. Oh, yeah. Just in remote viewing, I'm. able to process vast amounts of data. because everything I get from a remote. viewing standpoint, I don't necessarily. retain. I get it. I start stacking it in. different columns. One thing relates to another. I move. columns around. Then I collapse it back.

down to something that's definable. And then I start deciding what I will. use and what I won't use. I throw things. out. I add things in. By the time I sketch something on a. piece of paper, it's usually. some time invested in the remote. viewing. I just don't put everything down like I. used to. When I first started in remote. viewing, you you have a tendency to write.

everything down. It's too slow. That's not how the brain. works. The brain works. rapidly, very fast, and it's a it's an. intuitive action because you're not. wasting your time on things that don't. apply. You're only going with what. applies. And in remote viewing, you have a b you. come to a basic understanding for what. it is you're looking for,

and then you try to define it in the way. it's being used. So, I I should have brought some really good. examples of my remote viewing with me. Where most people. write a few words and do some sketchy. stuff, I'll draw detail. Um,

an example would be, if you want to hear. an example, absolutely. I would like to. hear an example. Okay. There was a. uh an agency came to us and said, "Can you track a spy?" And we said, "Piece of cake." That's what That's what. I said. Piece of cake. My buddy Dr. May. said, "Yeah, I think we could do it.". And uh I said, "What's in it for us?".

because I was working for the lab at the. time and I knew that's what he would. say. And they said, "We'll give you, I. don't know, I can't remember now how. much it was. Let's say a quarter of a. million dollars. If you can prove you. can track us by we'll give you a quarter. of a million dollars.". And so we said, "Sure, piece of cake.". So my targeting material, you ready for. this? Social Security number. What does that tell you about a spy?

You don't know if it's a 14y old or an. 85y old. You don't know if it's male or. female. You don't know if it's Chicago. or San Francisco or New York City. Right. Mhm. Okay. That was my targeting. material. and we'll call you on the phone at. different times and ask you to tell us. where our spy is. Okay.

So, first call I got was like 3 months later. at 12:30 midnight when I was out on the. West Coast working in the lab. But when I first arrived, I was in San. Francisco staying with a psychologist. that we had working at the lab, guy. named Nevin Lance. So, I'm staying in his home with him and. his wife.

and uh he gets awakened at 12:30. midnight. Hey, there's some guy on the. phone that says he wants to talk to you. He woke me up. So, I went to the kitchen. and I answered the phone. uh tell us where our spy is. So I said, "Okay." And I hung up and I. drew. I drew a picture of.

I'll think of it in Altuna Pass. uh down near. I want to say Palo Alto, but it's way. further south than that. It's where they. built the first group of wind. generators. It's called a tuna pass. So. I drew hills and I put in the towers and. I put the rotating things on them and I. drew dotted lines together. I said it's.

a big electrical grid. It's collected by. the wind. It's a wind generating area. And he's parked by the central tower. and a rental car. That's exactly where he was. And it's a. perfect drawing of Altuna Pass. So. what what what do these what do they say. to that? Are they in disbelief or They. didn't say a word to us. We just sent. them that.

So they said, "Okay, thank you." Didn't. say a word. Dr. May says, "I'd only give you 99% on. this one if it's true because you didn't. tell me what color the rental car is.". [Applause]. So, we're we're kidding with each other. about this stuff. Okay. So, time goes by a few months and I get. another request. I don't know, it was. 2:00 in the afternoon or something. They. just interrupted something I was doing.

Can you tell us where our spy is? And I. said. I worked out oh on such and such a date. at such such a time where was our spy? So it's middle of the day. The time and date I have no idea other. than it's like early we early morning. hours on some day of the week. just passed. So, I drew a corner of a a lab place,

put in parking lots, roads, trees lining. the roads, uh T-shaped building right in the. center. And I said, "Your spy is in the. T-shaped building, which is otherwise. known as the A building." That's the. name of it, a building. He's at the top. floor, center of the the T-shape. He's facing out through a picture. window. You might otherwise call this.

the director's office. It's 12:30 midnight. He's got his feet. crossed up on the director's desk and. he's smoking one of the director's. illegal Cuban cigars. And and. so we sent him the picture. Now Ed. showed the picture to some other people. and they all went, "Oh yeah, that's the. west gate of Lawrencemore Laboratories. That's where they build nuclear. weapons.".

Where do you think he was sitting? In. the director's chair. 12:30, looking out of his picture window. at the rest of the lab, smoking one of. his Cuban cigars. That was the second hit. Wow. The third hit they said, "Okay, you. you've demonstrated you can probably. track a spy. That's nice. Tell us what he's doing. He's a creative kind of guy. So, tell us.

what he's doing.". Uh, he's in the middle of the desert. He's got two big. tractor trailer trucks, vans, and he's. working inside the vans, and he's. testing a piece of equipment. It's a microwave equipment. It's. operating on this frequency band, and. it's got a 60° bandwidth, and he's. targeting electronic equipment at a.

little over 60 to 150 yards for. destructive purposes. Oh, and his hobby is he loves to to. drive for lunch. He likes to go over to. this solar. experimental station and watch the. mirrors. make a miniature sun on the end of a. tower. He loves to see that stuff.

That's all he said. So they came back and said, "Maybe you'd. like to see what he was actually working. on." And so Ed and I said, "Sure." So. they flew us out to Sandista Desert. We're in a military car driving down the. dirt road and we come over a hill and. they stopped us. They had a blocket on. the road. They had this arm down. The solar station, the experimental. station is doing a test.

So, you could actually smell the ozone. in the air with these mirrors when they. made a miniature sun on top of the. tower. It's crackling up there. You could smell. the ozone. I mean, it was beautiful. And uh the whole experiment ends. Oh, and Ed's looking at the driver. He's. saying, you know, if you had a bag, I'd. put it over this guy's head because he's. not supposed to be reporting on this.

So they lift the guard gates. So we head. on down the road and we see this dust. cloud coming down the side road from the. solar array. and it pulls out the road right in front. of us and accelerates away down the. road. And so we follow that dust cloud. and pull into the same place. Two big vans sitting on tractor trailer. trucks. And it's exactly what I drew. I drew like I don't know 15 drawings.

about 75 pages of transcript and they. gave all that material to an independent. agency and they said exactly what it did. and said they could build it and that's. exactly what he was doing what I said he. was doing. and what they came back and said was. our spy has no hobbies. and we asked the guy where he was coming. from for lunch. He said, "It's kind of.

my hobby. I go over there for lunch to. watch the solar array.". We made sure we put it in his statement. in the letter we sent back to him. So, he said, "That's the only thing I. had wrong." That that's an example of my. viewing. at the end of my 7-year career at Fort. Maid. You still have those sketches? Yeah, I. can send them to you. That would be. great. We'd like to overlay to over the.

over the interview. Yeah. Joe, let's um. let's take a break. Okay. When we come. back, I want to talk about how you were. recruited into the remote viewing. program. That's a good good idea. Perfect. I want to tell you about this business. venture I've been on for about the past. seven, eight months, and it's finally. come to fruition. I've been hellbent on finding the. cleanest functional mushroom supplement.

on the planet. And that all kind of. stemmed from the psychedelic treatment I. did, came out of it, got a ton of. benefits. Haven't had a drop of alcohol. in almost 2 years. I'm more in the. moment with my family. And that led me. down researching the benefits of just. everyday functional mushrooms. And I. started taking some supplements. I found. some coffee replacements. I even repped. a brand and you know it got to the point. where I just wanted the finest.

ingredients available no matter where. they come from. And it it it got to this. point where I was just going to start my. own brand. And so we started going to. trade shows and and looking for the. finest ingredients. And in doing that, I. ran into this guy. Maybe you've heard of. him. His name's Lear Hamilton and his. wife Gabby Reese and they have an entire. line of supplements with all the finest. ingredients. And we got to talking,

turns out. they have the perfect functional. mushroom supplement. It's actually. called performance mushrooms. And this has everything. It's USDA. organic. It's got chaga, quadriceps, lion's mane, Miyaki. This stuff is. amazing for energy balance, for. cognition. Look, just being honest. See. a lot of people taking care of their. bodies. I do not see a lot of people.

taking care of their brain. This is the. product, guys. And so, we got to talking. and. our values seemed very aligned. We're. both into the functional mushrooms. and after a lot of back and forth, I am. now a shareholder in the company. I have a small amount of ownership and. I'm just look, I'm just really proud to. be repping and be a part of the company.

that's making the best functional. mushroom supplement on the planet. You. can get this stuff at layersupfoods.com. You can use the promo code SRS. That'll. get you 20% off these performance. mushrooms or anything in the store. They. got a ton of good stuff. Once again, that's layeredupfoods.com. Use the promo code SRS. That gets you. 20% off. You guys are going to love this. stuff. I guarantee it.

I want to give a big thank you out right. now to all the Vigilance Elite patrons. out there that are watching the show. right now. Just want to say thank you guys. You are. our top supporters and you're what makes. this show actually happen. If you're not. on Vigilance Lead Patreon, I want to. tell you a little bit about what's going. on in there. So, we do a little bit of.

everything. There's plenty of behind the. scenes content from the actual Shawn. Ryan show. On top of that, basically. what I do is I take a lot of the. questions that I get from you guys or. the patrons and then I turn them into. videos. So, we get Right now there's a. lot of concern about self-defense, home. defense, crimes on the rise all. throughout the country, actually all. throughout the world. And so we talk. about everything from how to prep your.

home, how to clear your home, how to get. familiar with a firearm, both rifle and. pistol. For beginners and advanced, we. talk about mindset. We talk about. defensive driving. We have an end of the. month live chat that I'm on at the end. of every month where we can talk about. whatever topics you guys have. It's. actually done on Zoom. You might enjoy. it. Check it out. And if Zoom's not your. thing or you don't like live chats, like. I said, there's a library of well over a.

hundred videos on where to start with. prepping, all the firearm stuff, pretty. much anything you can think of, it's on. there. So anyways, go to. www.patreon.com/vigilance. elite or just go in the link in the. description. It'll take you right there. And if you don't want to and you just. want to continue to watch the show, that's fine, too. I appreciate it either. way. Love you all. Let's get back to the. show. Thank you.

All right, Joe, we're back from the. break. We're getting ready to dive into. how you were recruited for the remote. viewing program. Before we do that, I'm. curious about your bracelet. Does that. have any meaning? This bracelet? Yeah, that bracelet. It It's actually It It's. kind of somewhat similar to one that I. gave my wife. It's made by a congressman. who was also a Native American. Really? Yeah. In New Mexico and I happen to be. working at the Los Alamos lab at the.

time. You worked at Los Alamos? Well, I. I worked there in terms of being. studied. Okay. They did a. uh they did a study for two years of. hopefully me doing remote viewing, but. it was in a mu metal shielded room on a. bean bag where they suck the air out of. the bag. It matches your body. You lay. on your face and and they had a a large.

uh can filled with liquid nitrogen and. seven squids, what they call squids. subquantum interface devices and it it. was pressed with a robotic arm to the. back of the skull. and it measured each individual axion. firing in the brain whenever we did. something. And what they learned is you can't. capture remote viewing that way.

Second thing they learned is not all. thought happens here. It also happens behind your elbow. behind your knee. Your entire nervous. system is filled with actual brain. cells. So there's thought and action. that takes place throughout your nervous. system. We we actually knew that 8 years before. it became public knowledge through. somebody else's study. We just got that. by accident. Wow. That's public.

knowledge, huh? Yeah. The cool thing, the cool thing was that when we leased. the lab to do the study, the people that. actually worked in that lab before we. leased it from them were told by letter. from their boss, "Stay away from these. people. They're nuts.". They snuck in anyway and observed what. we were doing and read some of what we. were writing and that sort of thing.

And uh when our 2-year study was over, we got an application for employment. from every single person working in that. lab. Wow. Because we were doing. something more interesting than they. were doing in the government lab. Wow. So that is uh man, I can't bring. anything up without without uh you. having something to It's crazy. It's. fascinating. I love this interview. We.

we had uh. people with actual. that were Nobel laureates. actually made statements to us where. they said even if you proved it beyond. the shadow of a doubt we'd still deny. it. Nobel laureates saying that. Yeah. I. mean, and. unfortunately, having done a. demonstration in front of the Senate.

sele subcommittee for intelligence. way back, I had somebody in that committee tell me. in the middle of a demonstration of. remote viewing stood up and said, "Sir, you're doing the work of the devil and. you will burn in the fires of hell." and. he ran out of the room. Wow. That's one. of our senior senators. Actually said that made all the hair. stack back of my neck. Yeah. And then.

and then when we broke for coffee, had. another senior senator give me a big. hug, wiping tears out of his eyes, and. he said, "You're doing God's work, son. Keep it up." And all the air stood up on. my neck again. It's like. I can't tell you who I'm working for. It's like insanity. Yeah. That people go. right to that. They go right to. theology, religion. It in many cases,

if I don't blame what I do as a on God. as a gift from God, then. I'm the devil himself. But if I said it's God's gift, my son, you are perfect. That kind of. thing. Yep. Yep. It's uh we want you on. our bandwagon or we don't want you. Yeah. You know, it's uh. ever since I've been diving into these.

kind of subjects, um. everybody wants to tell me how I how to. think, you know, about them. And don't. let them do that. I guess just like. anything else, right? Just like. politics. If I don't agree with you, let. me guess. Now, we're going to go into 30. minutes of you trying to convince me why. I should think exactly like you, you. know, and uh let's just save it cuz I'm. not going to not going to happen. But um. but anyways. Mhm.

Grill front grill flame or gondola? Which one is it? How in the beginning it. was called Gondola Wish. Gondola Wish. That's when it was uh an idea in the eye. of somebody. Okay. Which was basically. Major Keenir and Skip Atwater or. Frederick Atwater who was a first. lieutenant at the time. Okay. And they. both work for the 902nd military. intelligence group which is a. um. counter inelligence operation.

uh they proposed. uh a project in which it would be. pursued. So how did you get recruited? Well, I. worked I worked for a general Roy at the. time. He was a commander of the. intelligence and security command for. the whole army intelligence business. And uh as I said, I was running my MOS. with a GS14.

in an office directly over his head. And. he called me in one morning or have me. come down and talk to him, I should say. And he wanted me to go out to Fortme and. look at what they were proposing and. come back and give him a briefing. He. said, "I don't know anything about this. subject matter." And I said, "What. exactly is it?" and he said, "You'll. have to find that out." He didn't want. to turn me one way or the other. He.

wanted me to go check it out. So, I. spent the whole day there with uh. Lieutenant Atwater. and another major at the time. His name. was uh Watt Wat. And uh so I sat there the whole day. looking. I was sitting in front of a. table covered with nothing but a pile of. stuff on psychic functioning. Some of it was uh stuff that we had. perloin from different communist.

countries. Some of it was stuff out of inquir. magazine. I mean it was everything from. the trash to the ash. I mean everything. Mhm. And I spent about 4 and 1/2 hours. sitting there just picking through it. And I saw maybe two documents in the. whole pile that meant anything to me. The rest was garbage. Just complete. garbage. What people wanted you to. think, what they wanted you to believe,

stories written by people who didn't ask. the right questions, you know, that kind. of crap. What was your opinion of the. psychic remote viewing. topic before you were recruited? before. I was recruited didn't have an opinion. Did you Did you Was there any. discussion? I had some very interesting. events in my life, particularly in. Vietnam, that were very meaningful to.

me, but for other reasons. I I didn't. understand them, but they happened. Mhm. Um, an example would be I was at uh a. fire base and. I can't remember the name of it now, but. it was in uh. they landed helicopters there and it was. a support fire base and I was there TDY. I was there maybe a month running my AM.

uh the NPRD1s. uh on the Jeep. and I was asked to fulfill a role there. if they came under attack. I was a senior staff sergeant. So they. said, "What we would like you to do is. if we come under attack, since you're. only here TDY, we want you to go to the. bunker with the radios and help to. coordinate whatever fire support we get. I said, "Fine, not a problem." So, we.

came under attack one night. So, I took. off for the bunker. And just as I got to the bunker, I. started down the steps into the bunker. And I took maybe the first two steps. I. I was in a hurry. And somebody yelled, "Freeze!" really. loud. So, I stopped. and I looked to see who yelled it. And. the whole bunker dissolved in front of. me. Just collapsed. It was hit with I. don't know how many different RPGs or. something. Maybe a zapper gun inside. I.

have no idea. But it just collapsed. right in front of me. So it would have. been inside that bunker when it. collapsed, but I wasn't. Um that's the second time I've heard. that. Huh? This is the second time I've. heard that. Yeah. It it was. a voice out of somewhere and it stopped. me dead in my tracks. Otherwise, I would. have been in there. Wow. Uh.

the second time. uh in our in our base camp, which is on. a hill. uh quite a distance from uh the fourth. division, armored division and Pu City. runway and that sort of stuff, special. forces camp. We were on like half a hill. with the combat engineers. They were on. the back side of our hill. We were on. the other side and our side faced this. just vast openness.

of just nothing but scrub as far as you. could see. And then it went into the. foothills and into the dry border area. And uh. one of the things that we that we had. there was like I said we were living in. holes in the ground which was perfectly. all right with us. I mean it was. comfortable unless you took a direct hit. and even then it would maybe go into the. mud and you'd get an upward detonation.

or something and nobody get hurt. Get your brains rattled maybe. But that. was it. Well, the engineers came in and. built us these big concrete pads with. these wooden buildings and put 10 roofs. on them. And our commander at the time. said, "I want everybody to move in there. cuz we're going to bulldoze the holes.". And I refused. I said, "The guys in my. tent are not moving, and neither am I. Those are not properly fortified.

They're not protected against attack by. mortar. until you got a layer of. sandbags on the roof. I'm not moving. anybody in there. And I couldn't. convince him why it would be dangerous. cuz we had four of those buildings in a. row. And everybody started moving in and. we refused. So we're out on a mission. When we came back, our hole was. bulldozed over and we were moved in. there.

So I told my guys, "Okay, until I do something to revet the. outside of the building and put. something over the roof, I want you to. sandbag your CS because at least then. you'll have something you can lay up. against because if something comes. through the roof, it's going to. predetonate above the ground. We're. going to get spalding off the concrete. floor. It's going to just chew this. place up.". They ordered me to get all the sandbags.

out. and I refused to do that. When I wasn't there, the commander came. in, gave everybody a direct order. They. started taking the sandbags out. I came. back that evening. I was really hot. I. went and argued with him. Came back in, crashed, fell asleep. Middle of my night, that night, we got. hit with mortar. We got bracketed by two. heavy mortars and I mean they tore us.

up. We got all kinds of pre-detonations, lots of wounded. Uh the guy in the p I had a private room. on the end of the barracks. So when I. heard him going off, I just rolled off. the cot and pulled everything in the. room that wasn't attached anything down. on top of me. Everything I owned had holes in it. The guy in the room next to me never got. out of his bed. He was hitting the head. and it just feathers everywhere from his. pillow.

Um, so I was inside having the guys reandbag. their the surviving guys reandbagging. their CS when the the boss came in. again. And I just pulled my 45 out, jacked around in it, laid it on the. sandbags and kept stacking the sandbags. And the first sergeant said, "Oh, maybe. you ought to go outside with me, sir. We'll have a discussion about it out. here." And he left and I never saw him.

again. That was the second time. It It was like. I I knew stuff was going to happen. But. the thing that got to me was this kid. I can't even remember the state he was. from, but he had a real southern accent, like from Kentucky or. might have been Tennessee even. I can't. remember. But he all he wanted to do was make me. happy cuz I happened to be the the uh s.

the sergeant of the guard one night and. so I was in charge of all the bunkers. and stuff. So the following morning. when the bunker guys had all been. relieved, I told this kid, I said, "Go. out and collect all the loose hand. grenades. Collect them up. put him in the back of. the 3/4tonon truck. I tell I didn't tell. him specifically how to do that, but I. told him to do that. So, he said, "Yes, sir. Yes, sir." Right away. And he ran.

out to do it. And I was talking to. someone else maybe 80 feet away from the. bunkers and the 3/4 was parked over near. the the side. and he was waving at me and he was. walking to the 3/4 ton truck carrying a. gunny sack. and I had this picture in my mind of the. open weaving in the gunny sack catching. a pin, you know, just getting hung up on a pin.

and story. I started yelling at him and. doing this and he started waving back. and he walked over to 3/4 and turned the. gunny sack upside down and shook the. grenades into the back of 3/4 dunk track. and it was a big big flash and he was. gone. and I I just saw that whole thing. happening like. 60 seconds before it did. Wow. So, I.

started paying attention to stuff. Uh, if I started if I'd be sitting out on. the ground, lean against the I don't. know the uh sandbag wall or something. reading a book and I get this funny. feeling. I would get up and walk into. the bunker and we get hit with a mortar, couple mortar rounds, things like that. And guys started. noticing that. So if I got up and went.

somewhere, they'd all get up and go with. me, you know, like I went in a bunker, the bunker get really crowded with guys. coming in, things like that. And so they said, "Well, you seem to. know when something's going to happen.". So you had articulated this. Yeah, I I. was thinking that stuff anyway. So when I went and read this data, this is many years later. I'm doing it.

for the general. and I went back and told him that I. thought there was a threat buried in it. I was serious because there were a. couple documents in there. Was this the. table with all the Yeah, the table with. a mound of stuff on it. There was only. maybe two or three documents in there. that I read that I took very seriously. because they were one was from Russia, uh, two were from China, I think, and. one might have been check or something.

But it was research that they had been. doing on combat vets. where they would know things and that. resonated with me and I thought well if. they're researching that for possible. use as a collection tool or a uh. casualty preventive tool of some kind. that's important and and I thought if. they're doing it we should be doing it. too or it would be a threat. fight.

against us at some point in the future. And I I just told the general that. So, next thing I knew, he's sending me. out to Sarai. to uh evaluate it. Uh cuz he wanted to. know more about it. And of course, when. I went out there, I had a result where I. had uh they said, "Oh, I said, "So, what. is this remote viewing stuff?" and they. said, "Oh, well, rather than try to. explain it, why don't you just do a few.

and then you'll understand what it's all. about.". So, I did six of those in a 2 or 3 day. period. Were you skeptical at all? Yeah, very. I didn't understand it. Um, in. fact, the first one I did, I went into. this windowless room on the third floor. of the radio physics lab with Russell. Tar who worked there. And uh, we sat there for 30 minutes just. talking. And I said, "So, what okay,

what is this stuff?" And he said, "Well, just give it another few minutes.". And after some time he said, "Okay, uh it's 9:00 and uh how put off is gone. somewhere.". Well, we it's randomly chosen. We don't. know where he is. I don't know where he. is. Nobody knows. Describe what he's seeing and where he's. standing. And I said, "Okay, how do I do that?".

Says, "What pops in your head?". And so I described a uh. I described a place with thousands of. crystals. So crystals everywhere. They're all beautiful crystals. Sunlight. goes through them, you know, spllays out in different. colors. And there's like a building there, but. it's like a pillow. It's built like this. like a big pillow.

And uh he said, "Are there any. distinctive colors?" And I said, "Yeah, one. Everything's white." Everything. white. Well, almost everything. And he said, "Well, what's the other color?" And I. said, "Well, that pillow is a different. color. It has red." "No, no, it's. white." "No, no, it's red.".

And he said, "Okay, Joe, you got to. settle on one or the other. Red or. white?". Okay. It's white with kind of a red in. it. No, no, it's red with kind of a. white in it. And he started getting. angry with me. He said, "Just tell me. what color the building is." I said, "Okay, okay, here it comes. You ready? Red hyphen white slash white hyphen red. That's the color in quotes. And he said,

"That's not a color." I said, "It is. now. Learn to live with it.". That's what I actually said. And so. we get a call. Hal Pulloff tells him. where we are, where where he is. So we. get in the staff car and we ride out. there, uh, Russell Tar and I, uh, with a. driver cuz he's legally blind. and I would ride with him if he was. driving. So, we get there.

and uh what it is, it's a. it's right on the bay and it's a place. where they process seawater for salt. So, mounds of salt everywhere and salts. a white crystal crystalline form. And in the center of all this white. mounds of white salt. is a quanet hut. And it's enameled white, but rust is.

bleeding through all over it from this. heavy salt content. And Russell's standing there at the. entry where we walked in. He's just. standing there and he's staring and he. said, "That's about a perfect color that. you gave it." So that's one of the first. place matches I got later when it was. independently judged. Are you doing. this? I mean, how does it how does it what is. the experience like? They tell you how.

put off standing in a spot we don't know. where he is. Describe it. Mhm. You go, how? They say just tell us what pops on. your head. Yeah. I mean, are your eyes. open? That's what's popping in my head. Your eyes open. Are we are we right now? We're talking right now. And it's this. image just just popping in my head. It. It's like uh how clear is it? Clear as a. bell. Like you're there. Like you're there.

only you don't know exactly what it is. You you. millions of crystals in piles. everywhere. So the the tiny little salt crystals are. looking big to me, but there's big. mounds of them. Okay. You understand? This sort of. distorted a little bit. Mhm. But what. you could say about it, it's absolutely.

clear. Mountains of crystals everywhere. Well, that's what salt is. And the color was. bleeding. Literally the red was just. this wavery kind of stuff bleeding. through the the enamel from years of. sitting next to the salt, I guess. Can. you see the visualizations from. different angles? Yeah. Can you walk. through them? Yeah. Mhm. Can you touch. them? Yeah. And you can feel them. Mhm.

And I I think where the mistakes made is. in the term remote viewing. That implies seeing it. You kind of aren't seeing it, but you. are. What it is, it's a compilation of. all of your senses. Most people go into remote viewing. thinking, I'm going to see something. And so, they're totally and completely. dependent on their eyes.

It's not just your vision. It's your. smell. It's your taste. It's your. feeling. It's it's your emotions about. it. It's everything that you could. possibly sense if you were standing in. the middle of it. Everything you could. possibly say about it. That's right. But it's as though you don't know. you've never seen it before in your. whole life. You understand what I'm.

saying? It's kind of masked that way. So, where they where they make a mistake. is they make a mistake in naming things. or having the need to say what it is. No, nobody wants to know what it is. They want descriptors of it that come to. you based on your senses. All of your. senses. So,

if if I'm doing a target and and let's. say the I'm just going to throw out a. hypothetical. Let's say it's a CIA guy. and he wants to know what this spy this. spy was caught in South Africa and. turned over to our country and he's a. Russian spy and when he was caught. they haven't been able to determine how. he encrypted his messages going back to.

Russia. That's more important than. catching the spy. Okay. So they need to. know that. So they come to us with that. task. Tell us how he encrypted his. messages. So they might write that out. How did. the spy from South Africa encrypt his. messages? And they put it in a double. wrapped opaque envelope and they put a. on it. And I go in a room and they throw the. envelope with A on it on a table and.

they say, "Tell us about A.". And I just sit there and think about it. And what pops in my head? I tell them, "But you don't know what's in the. envelope." I have no idea what's in the. envelope. It doesn't matter. what happened over time. as an example. Initially, they knew they couldn't send. somebody to a place in Russia that they. want to know about. So, how do we get. that? Well, we could use GPS locations.

So, they would write out the GPS site. and they would give that to the viewer. And I was nailing GPS sites like crazy. So they said, "Obviously Joe has an. idetic memory and he's memorized. important GPS locations in Russia.". No, that's not possible. There's too. many. What is actually happening is I'm.

actually getting to the target without. the GPS site. So to prove it, we said, "Okay, if you believe that, take the GPS. locations, put them in a double wrapped. opaque envelope you can't see through, don't say anything. Just throw the blank. envelope on the table, and guess what? You still get the same target." Okay? So, inevitably,

somebody carrying a target from the CIA. would show up at our office and they go, "Oh, gez, I left the envelope on my desk. at Langley." And we'd say, "Okay, write. down the target and the envelope I left. on my desk at Langley." And guess what? Still works. So, it's something else gets you to the. target. what we think it is, and I wrote. a paper on this 35 years ago, it's.

intention, attention to detail about the target, and expectation for outcome. And if you stop and think about it, if. you don't have those three things, your. job, no matter what it is in the world, is not going to work. Those are the three things you. absolutely have to have. Can you say. those again, please? intention, attention to detail, and expectation for. outcome. If you have solidified those three.

things, talked about them with the group. of people you work with, I guarantee you. success in the world, it no matter what. it is you're doing, doesn't matter. That's how humans operate. It's how we. think. It's where we go with our head. It's what gets us there. It's in. everything we do and nobody wants to. believe it. And when I wrote the paper. 35 years ago, they said.

nobody cares about this paper. Today. they're saying, "Oh, maybe it's one of. the top three most siminal papers ever. written.". Why? Because every manufacturing company. in the world, if they don't pay. attention to that, they don't succeed. Every company in the world where they do. original thought or creation or. construction or whatever, they don't. follow those rules ain't going to. succeed. There's nothing that we do as.

human beings that will ever happen if we. don't pay attention to those three. things. That's a simple recipe for how psychic. functioning works. It's the same thing. It's where original thought is. generated. It comes out of our mind is. something we've never done before. It's. new. It's uh creative. It's no one's. ever thought of this. How could this. possibly have not been thought of?

Same place comes out of the same place. So why would an original thought about a. target somewhere not happen at the same. time with the same strength as it does. with a psychic functioning person as. someone going over tons of information. trying to analyze their way through to. an answer? It's the same thing. No difference.

Did you know that you were the. the first one to be implemented into the. program? Yes, I knew I was the first one. that was recruited. Had they articulated. why you No, they just what they did is. they said they let it happen by course. What what they did is they went out and. they looked at um. they went out to all the commanders that.

they knew and they said, "Give us the names of all the people. that you have working for you that seem. to always come up with the answer, seem. to always be the right person in the. right, seem to be the most creative. people and answering the problems you. have to face no matter what it is." and. they came back with I don't know 1,300. people or 1,500 people in INSCOM. Then out of that they said okay uh we.

want to review the top 20% of those. people. So they went through and they. weeded out a whole bunch of stuff and. they came to uh uh maybe 130 people. They started interviewing everybody. and they reached a point where they had. maybe 30 people were coming out on top. I happened to be in the 30 people. Um I think that was more to do with.

General Roy sending me there and saying. I think this guy' be a good recruit. uh by virtue of the fact that that he. had brought me back, made me a warrant, put me in charge of my MOS, he did that. because of my history, I think, because. of the field reports, everything that. anybody had ever heard of me about. I. spent more time overseas. I did six and. a half hardship tours. Nobody does that.

unless they love what they're doing. And. so he sent my name in. So I came out in. the top 30 and then Russell Tar and How. put Off came from SRI to Fort Me and we. were personally interviewed by each one. of them. How put Off and Russell had decided that. since I had the six results I had and. from my interview that I absolutely had.

to be in the three people they were. going to choose. They were only choose. three people because that's what they. said their funding could cover. When they did the interviews, they kept. coming up with six names. Well, the government said, "No, we're. not going to give you any more money. than we're giving you." So, they said, "Okay, we'll do it for six people.". So they. collected uh the six of us and we all. went to Asharai and and learned more.

about remote viewing and Katie bore the. door. That's what happened. We started. getting tasks. Originally it was supposed to be a. three-year project. First year recruitment and took about a. year to do that. Second year was. training. And training consisted of. doing it over and over and over and over. and over because nobody knew how to. train this stuff. It was practice. See. who got better, who's who didn't, that.

sort of thing. All six of us got better. at it. I had 24 straight failures. Really? Yeah. My ego got in the way and. I knew that and I it just took a while. for me to beat it back. It's how did you. control it? You don't. You give it. another job to do. You got I give mine. math problems. I give it thoughts that I. got to work through while I'm doing a.

remote feeling. I don't let the ego. play. What what happens with many people is. they have a resounding success the first. time. And the reason why is the ego. goes, I don't know what's going on here. I've never been exposed to this before. So, I'm going to step out of this and. see what happens. I am not going to. fail. Ego steps out. Resounding success. The ego jumps back in and goes, "Okay, I.

know what's going on now. I'm in. charge." Failure. Failure. Failure. Failure. Cuz the ego thinks it knows. what it's doing and it doesn't have a. clue. So, you got to keep the ego busy. And you can s side s side s side s side. s side s side s side s side s side s. side s side s side s side s side s side. s side s side s side s side s side s. side step it, you know, push it over. here and have it do something else that. egos are good at while you're doing the. viewing. And that's kind of a split. mental function function that I do. I.

still do it. I've done this for. better than 44 years now and I still. fight battles with my ego. You c you. can't have an ego and do remote healing. What is the ego? The ego. I think that's a protective part of us. that looks out for our benefit. Where. does it come from? Where does it come. from? Mhm. Competitive side of man.

It's our need to be on top, be the best, do the one thing that we do the best or. whatever you want to call it. Um, be the. producer, be the guy who. generates the most, however you want to. look at it, it's it's you got to be on. top. That's counterproductive in remote. viewing. It's counterproductive in a lot.

of things actually. Um, what I learned by being in. intelligence for as many years is by the. time I got to. remote viewing, I had already learned. that. nobody knows who I am. When I do. something and it works out really, really well, it's because nobody knows. who I am and never will know who I am.

That doesn't matter. What matters is. success in the job. In other words, if. if part of your function is to keep. whole units from being decimated in. combat, that's what you do. And you. don't take credit for it. You don't want. credit for it because it will erode your. job quality. It erodess the very. function that you're out there trying to. to to do. I.

I I always I ne I never I don't think. two times in my life did I get a direct. order to do anything as an intelligence. guy. I saw the job. I saw the problem. and I did it. I didn't ask for. permission. I didn't have somebody tell. me to go do it. I just went and did it. I've always done that because that's how. I was brought up in the intelligence. business. I had good trainers. I had.

people with me who said, "No, no, no. You don't get credit for this. There. there are no awards here. your job. That's your job. Keeping these guys. alive by giving them the information. they need, doing what they need to stay. alive in the in the field. It's like. somebody said to me once, "Oh, well, you. did a lot of recon, so you really know. what combat's all about." I said, "No, no, no. You recon is you don't get. discovered. Nobody knows you've been.

there. You You're good at hiding. There's no combat there. Yeah. you stay. alive for other people. You know, I've. been in places where I watched the NBA. going by me to the battle. and I was down in the corner going, "And. you got another route coming over the. hill." You know, that's stupid. It it.

at what point did it become the Stargate. program? Well, let's see. It was uh gondolaish, then it was grill flame. It was grill flame until we got outed by. President Carter. President Carter stood up in front of a. bunch of news people and said, "You know. that uh T122 bear bomber we've been. looking for for that disappeared two. years ago? Everybody's been looking for.

it, but we found it and we've turned it. over entirely to the Russians. And one of the reporters said, "How did. you find it?" And he said, "We used our. psychics." And he was holding in his arm. a green folder with a red stripe and it. said grill flame on it. Cat's out of the bag. Hour later. everything changed and we became center.

lane. So we were center lane for a while until. somebody else I think it was we had a. congressman by the name of Rose. Everybody called him rubber lips Rose. You couldn't tell him anything that. wasn't on the news an hour later. So he started talking about us. Center. Lane disappeared and Sun Streak appeared. and and so on and so forth. We went.

through like six or seven name changes. and somewhere in there. insomn divorced itself of the program. because a it couldn't fund it, b it had. been supplying the bodies. uh out of uh. out of MOS. I was 999 the whole time I was in the. unit. So.

it was turned over from INSCOM. It was. turned over to the Defense Intelligence. Agency, DIA. DIA took it over because they provided. the huge amount of money to keep it. going. They were also wanting to take charge of. it because by that point, this is right. when I exited. By the way, by that. point, it was uh. not being managed very well. So, DIA.

took it over. It became a bigger. headache in management for them. So, there were a lot of problems with. it. So in the end it was the CIA that. was told Congress told the CIA, "We want. you to take it over completely. Turn it. totally black and bury it. Make it go away from the public eye. This has got to be so secret no one ever.

knows about it or ever ask any questions. about it.". And the CIA said, "No, we're not going to do that." And the. reason that we're not going to do that. is because you, Congress, has just rad. us over the coals for 2 years over the. project MK Ultra where we use. psychedelics. for interrogation purposes. Why? because they gave it to one of. their own people at a party and the guy. thought he could fly and went on a.

nstory building in downtown DC and. splattered all over the sidewalk. to the disgruntlement of the CIA, his family and a number of other people. So they. just. just lambasted the CIA for that. So the. CIA said, "No, it's not going to. happen.". Congress went back to the CIA and said,

"You got this all wrong. You don't tell. us what you will or won't do. We tell. you what you will do." And so the CIA. said, "Okay, we'll take over managerial. authority of it, but only after a. study's done on its condition.". So they had two people come in to do the. study. a woman by the name of Jessica. Uts who was the number one analyst, statistical analyst in the world almost. okay never mind America probably the top.

five anyway from the world. and a guy named. I can't remember right now sorry. he was a professor who had been. one of our worst detractors the whole. time he said, "This isn't real. It's a. lie. It's all BS.". And uh it's not real. And the government. government's being taken down a false.

trail. Um he was their counter to her. So they both did a study of material. that the CIA gave them to study which. was one year of select hand selected. material that we supposedly reacted to. and it was all the. if you had to pick the top seven worst. possible results that's what they gave.

them to study. And yet the statistical. analysts came up with the idea that. based on that material alone, it was. better than the reason you take an. aspirin every day to prevent heart. attack. for a lot of reasons. The biggest reason. is. the people who have studied it aren't. wedded to it. The people who cause you.

to take an aspirin every day to prevent. heart attack are all as aspirin. producers. So. she gave these br very brilliant. arguments. still found statistical reasons why it. was supported even on the minimal amount. of material. given to them to review. The professor. on the other hand, same old story, held.

his view that it was a waste of time, never should have happened in the first. place, blah blah blah, and didn't give. any reasons for it at all. So what they. did is the CIA dumped her report, kept. his, presented it to the Congress and. said, "This is why we're not accepting. it." And Congress said, "Well, then shut. it down." So they did. Primary reason I will tell you is nobody. wants to be caught dead standing next to. a psychic. It's political dynamite.

You're you're toast. You get caught You get caught standing. next to a psychic, you're toast. And the example they give President. Reagan's wife talking to an astrologer. at the same time. we're working for him. They're they're crucifying his wife. and we're advising 15 of the 17 largest.

intelligence agencies in America. Wow. I. mean, that's nuts. Now, I have to say we did over. 1,200 remote viewings in support of the. CIA. and they are the ones that kept coming. back for more for like 15 years and they. said it didn't work. You know, if you had a restaurant, I'm. going to give you the example that Dr.

May gives. If you had a restaurant. and you invited the top 15 food critics. to your restaurant the day you opened it. and 13 of them came back the next day. and 15 came back the day after and 12. came back the day after that and so on. and so forth for the next 15 years. Would you say it was a pretty good. restaurant? Yes, I would. Damn right you. would.

Nobody will stand next to a psychic. though, so what can I say? And yet we. still had almost every agency we. supported say and review and talk about. everything we did to support them. and it's all available now. Um we. published the science we prevent we uh. laboratories for fundamental research. published the science of remote viewing.

in four volumes. 911 pages of volume double columns both. sides tissue thin paper 1.4 4 million. words. There is more science backing up. remote viewing than any other subject in. history. Wow. Will anybody read those? No. All they want to do is say, "I. wouldn't believe it if you told me it. was real.". And yet, where are we? Buried our head.

in the sand. Do you think terrorists can't do this? No, they can. And in fact, we have proof. or there is extent proof I know of. I. can't talk about it, but I will tell you. there's extent proof that there are. terrorist organizations. teaching people trying to use it. And. there are foreign countries using it to. our detriment. Our. allies have tried to use it and have.

failed because no one sends them to the. people that have the science backing it. up, who know how to use it, who have. made all the mistakes, opened all the doors, all the windows to. getting it where it operates. proficiently. They they don't ask those people. So, at what point did you.

We'll get into that in a little bit. What is one of the first was the Skyab. one of the first big predictions you. made. I made I actually made that. prediction. I think it was about 6 months prior to. the Skyab coming out of orbit. And I did. it before. before I ever knew of the existence of. the program that they were trying to put. together. I did it because. someone said they don't know where this.

thing's going to come down. And I said, "Oh, they should. In all probability, this is where it's going to hit." And I. said it was the. left central area of Australia's desert. And then it would strike at a certain. point and there'd be a debris field that. would go out for so many thousands of. kilometers. Rewinding real quick, Skyab was was was. it the first first big lab that we had.

in orbit and it had a lot of parts of it. that would we knew would not. self-destruct when they came back in. through the atmosphere. And we were concerned that some of the. larger parts of it like the I think the. atomic power plant and stuff like that. was going to crash in a big city. somewhere maybe kill thousands of. people. Nobody knew. The scientists. couldn't predict it. It's decaying orbit. was changing dramatically every so many.

hours because of its rotation. uh in orbit. Uh, so they knew the decay. rate and everything, but they just. didn't know where it was going to. re-enter. and where it reentered and its attitude. on re-entry would determine its crash. point. So. I think one of the large sections landed. in the Indian Ocean thousands of miles. from where the predominant part of it. hit, which is in the deserts of.

Australia. And the only thing I had wrong I I had. said the hours and days I missed it by a. certain number of days like a handful of. days or hours or something and I had it. reversed because I had it going around. the world this way and it was going. around the world this way or something. like that. So my debris field was where. it would actually impact and where I had.

it impacting was the debris field. Well, from what I understand, you were only. about 60 mi off and it was a 1. in6,646,000. chance. I I don't know where that comes. from, but I can tell you I was about 60. mi off. That's not bad. That is uh But. that's not the only play. I mean, there. was a big chunk of it came down in the. in the Indian Ocean. So there were other. places where chunks of it came down, but.

the predominant part of it came down in. the deserts of Australia, which is. perfect. I mean, didn't hurt anybody. other than a lot of rabbits maybe or. kangaroos or something. I don't know. And then there is the. submarine incident. Yeah. Can you go. into detail about that, please? the. the the target was um. at the time my understanding was it was.

a largest building that existed in. Russia north of the uh or in the world. actually north of the uh Arctic Circle. It was a cold what they call a cold. harbor uh frigid harbor. They always had. these big ice breakers sitting outside. the harbor. Um, they were building something in this. building, but it was not connected to. the harbor. So, they didn't believe it.

was a ship or anything, but there was a. lot of material going in. uh off of railroad cars and stuff. There's a lot of heavy guards around it. They couldn't hire somebody to sneak a. camera in and take one picture. They. they just didn't know what was happening. inside this building. So, um I one of my best friends, he's dead. now. He died during the project. Uh his.

name was Hartley Trent. Harley Trent and. I worked at Target. And we both pretty much said the same. thing really. Um. that it was a very, very large. submarine, huge submarine. I remember. somebody asked me in one of my sessions, how big is it? You keep saying big, huge. Well, how big is it? I said, well, it's about 33 feet or 33 30 ft shy of. the length of a Soviet aircraft carrier.

and uh probably 75 70 ft wide. Really. huge. I said it's like two big half. submarines being stuck together this. way. And uh there was a number of other. things we said about it. I can't. remember all the details now, but. um. oh I the most important point was up. until that point all the Soviet. submarines that carried ICBMs. carried them straight up and down. So.

they had to stop the notch. That was. like an 18minute window where they were. really vulnerable. this went away as a vulnerability. because this new submarine I said had. slanted dubes so they could launch on. the move. and uh there was some other things I. can't remember now but um anyway Hartley. and I pretty much agreed on a lot of. that and but I have to tell you he was.

targeted separately from me and I was. targeted separately from him and we. never spoke to each other about it cuz. we were under waters during remote. viewing to never discuss what we were. targeting. in any way, shape, or form cuz we didn't. want tainted information going across. viewers. So, I didn't know he was reporting what. I was reporting and vice versa.

Um, we sent sent the report to the National. Security Council because that's where. uh it was being targeted. The National. Security Council had been targeting it. for 2 years. Couldn't get any. information on the building at all. So, we sent a report in uh was carried. in by a admiral by the name of Jake. Stewart. I think his first name was Jay.

I might be wrong there, but I do know. his last name was Stuart because I had. known him for some time. And he carried the report to the. National Security Council. But then he. brought it right back. and he said they they won't accept it. They said this is just total fantasy. Uh, I remember talking to him about it. and I asked him why did they say it was. fantasy and he said because.

they're already centered on something. like a troop carrier or something being. manufactured there and that uh it's not. possible because it's not connected to. the harbor in any way. And I said, "Well, tell them the Fantasy. is going to be launched in 112 days." It. It actually made me angry that they just. resented the information. So I said, "Take it back. Tell them the.

Phanto be launched in 112 days." So. Admiral Stewart, I guess, went by the. NRO. I don't know if that's true or not, but somebody went by the NRO and had. them order up an over couple overheads. of the harbor 114 days out. I don't know what happened at the. National Security Council, but I do know. they didn't care about our report, so. they probably threw it on a shelf and. ignored it. 114 days later, when they took pictures.

of the harbor, a channel was cut to the. sea. The Typhoon class submarine TK089, first ever built prototype, was parked. in the harbor tied up to a Soviet. aircraft carrier. I think they were. using the aircraft carrier to blind. anybody sailing by the port so they. couldn't see. or anybody who was looking into the. harbor. And it was about 30 to 33 feet shy the.

length of a Soviet aircraft carrier. Wow. It was a monster. Now, what I found out later and nobody. knew is they they built eight more of. them and no one ever saw or heard of. them. So, where were they built and how did they. launch those that nobody knew about. them? I when I was in Russia with Ed May. and after Parisa and the wall came down.

and all of that, I uh I met the uh chief. of the Red Army or whatever they call. him and he had me he wanted me to sign a. book that I where I talked about the. submarine. because when they declassified. everything, CIA declassified everything, I talked about in one of my books. and he thought it was disinformation for. 6 years. That's what he told me. And I. asked him why and he said because it was.

in your book and I didn't know about any. submarine. And so I said, "Then why do you want me. to sign the book?" And he said, "Because. I just found out it was real.". So I said, "So I don't get this. How do. you know it wasn't this information?". And he said, he did this. He looked. around and he leaned forward and he. said, "I know because our spy and your DIA. told me it was real.".

I went, "Oh jeez, what do I do now?" So. he said, I said, "Will you give me the. initials?" He said, "Oh, no, no, no. I. couldn't do that. They'd bury me under. the front steps of the FSB." So I said, "It's okay. I'll let you go to sleep. tonight. Get it from your hand." That's. all I could think of to say. And he ran. out of the room. They came back in and. grabbed this book which I had signed, took off. And and then the the general that I was.

uh that Ed and I were talking to said, "You got to stop scaring my generals, Joe.". He said, "You just got to stop doing. that." I said, "Okay, I won't do it. anymore.". Wow. What? So, when you're tasked to do these. things, how do they approach? Well, I they just tell me, uh, Joe, you're up and I go in a room, which. they're taping and monitoring.

everything. And I sit down with a. monitor and the monitor throws an. envelope on the table. Neither he or she. nor I know what's in the envelope. In. fact, nobody knows what's in the. envelope except the tasker who talked to. one person, which is my boss in the. remote viewing unit. And he puts the. envelope together. And so nobody knows. And that way you don't get leading.

questions. You it goes wherever it goes. Now what the monitor is there for. is the monitor. brings to bear. left brain actions like questions that. might come up uh in the interaction. between the monitor and I. I might say. something like well it's this submarine. and it's really huge. And he might say. how huge is it? you know, and I'll say,

"Oh, 33 ft shy of the length of a Soviet. aircraft carrier.". Well, that elicits more information. than I might be giving at the time. So, you get way more information out of the. interaction between two people. one. who's being leftrain and trying to stay. in the world of reality, if you will, and the remote viewer who's in their own. world trying to figure out what the.

sensations are and everything going on. in their head telling them what to say. So. what we found over the years was there. were many occasions when that monitor. would ask exactly the right question to. elicit the response that answered the. whole problem. So they're both being psychic. just that one thinks they're not and one.

thinks they are. You understand? Mhm. So. people when they interact don't realize. it but some are being psychic and some. are not. It's a human trait. It's a. human condition. Psychic functioning is. normal with human beings. It's the norm. The difficulty is I think comes out of. the fact that it's an ancient. capability. It's a survival mechanism.

that has existed since the beginning of. human. And as at the very beginning, we. didn't h we didn't have a language of. detail where we could interact together. and speak in great detail with one. another about some subject. Or when we were going into a valley to. hunt, we maybe went to our our uh our.

guide, our uh witch doctor, our you. know, leader, whoever, who was probably the most. psychic person in the entire group, who. said, "Hunt on the south section of that. valley." and we would hunt there and. find plenty of game where if we hunted. anywhere else there wouldn't be. Or if. we said, "Okay, we're going back to our. old hunting grounds. There's three caves.

there. Which one should we meet at? Meet. on the westernmost one. Don't meet on. the other two because cave bears are. living there. If they come back and find. us there, they will kill us all." So. it's a survival mechanism. People. understood. what their minds were telling them about. their environ. Their environment and everything. They. had no other way of judging it.

So. it makes a lot of sense. Where where did. we become this inefficient? Yeah. Where. did we steer off of that? Because with. that there's no there's no need for. language, right? There's no need for a. language. And why? Because we lived in. very small family units. The the biggest tribe of people was. probably nine 10 people all birthed out.

of the same families. And so we were all. intimately related to one another. fighting for survival. And so we could. actually read one another's minds or the. very thoughts that others were thinking. in our group. Why did that go away? Well, because. small groups started banding together. cuz there is strength in numbers.

And when you have strength in numbers, it it trumps. small units. Strength in numbers, however, opens a. flaw in the reading of minds because now. you're reading the mind of this guy. who's got this woman is his primary mate. and they're not part of your original. group and you're now reading her mind. and he's reading your mind and you're.

the one who winds up with a spear in the. back. So, that doesn't work. So o over. time, not not right away, but over. thousands of years, what happened is we. found ways for our development to change. that capability from a yes everyday kind. of capability. to one that was less invasive. So probably somewhere in the forebrain.

or the colossum or something we started. building a filter there that would. prevent it prevent this occurrence from. happening. And it's not a perfect. filter. Stuff still gets through, but. it's this the outrageous screaming. survival type stuff that gets through. there. Now, you only see it you see it. in combat. You see it with policemen in.

dangerous situations. You see it with. surgeons in surgical suites where. something happens and they don't have. time to pick the phone up, talk to their. buddy, go and look at a medical. dictionary or find out something special. that's going to help them save a life. No, it's like right then, right there. You got two seconds to make a decision. They go here for it. They get it from. everybody in the room and they act on.

it. I I think that's the way things work. now. It's an overriding need. It's a It's interesting you said this. because I I mean me and you just met. this morning at breakfast and I had a. similar conversation. I can't remember who it was, but they. were saying you already. they it was another it was an it was.

another operator uh and we were having a. discussion. I can't remember what it was. about, but he was talking about we we. got on this subject and he said that he. was saying everybody he believes. everybody has. this type of ability and he related it. back to he was like remember you know. remember in Iraq Afghanistan when we. were clearing rooms together. Yeah. And. he's like and you immediately you can. pick up on the energy of who's in that.

room and and Yeah. Yeah. And when I. think of it like that, you know, I just. I mean, everything happens so fast, you. know, but that light shoulder tap by. somebody behind you would slow you down. maybe just enough. Mhm. That you don't. round that next corner. Yeah. So fast. You might glance back and you'll go. like this or something. You just you. like feel each other. You're also, but. we would also I mean we just we would.

call it reading the room and so it would. be you know women, children. Yeah. Men, bad guys, good guys and and and that is. what you go off of. You go off your gut. instinct, intuition, whatever you want. to call it. The the only time I saw that. was at the T offensive when we had to. clear Plecu City. I saw some of that then. where. it's gut-wrenching to kick doors in. You.

know, when you're going through a town. or a city or a village or something, it's really. there's times when you don't have any. problem kicking a door in and then. ascertaining who's inside. There's other. times when you just don't want to kick. that door, you know? Mhm. It's kind of. like, no, I' i'd rather like flashbang. it first. Mhm. Then kick the door in. And. it's an intuitive knowing that I need to.

do this. So, do you does everybody have. can can everybody access this or is it. is it a is it a gift that only certain. No, I think everybody can access it when. they're in a situation where they're. Well, they're at great risk. I think. that's when it comes to bear because. they're open to it. Could everybody. learn it? I think to a certain degree.

Yeah. And in fact, there's some evidence. of that. There's a guy named uh Han. He. wrote a book book on this, by the way. I. can't remember his first name was his. name. His last name I remember being. hand just like your hand. And he taught a platoon of Marines. before they went to Vietnam. Taught a a. team of Marines, a platoon actually,

how to sense. their way through a inspection of a hut. or a village hut. He he taught them in a. a mock village. on booby traps, what to look for, how to smell them out, how to feel about a room, how to sus it. out, that sort of thing. And a lot of it. had to do with how they felt when they. just put their hand on something. And they then followed that platoon of.

Marines in Vietnam for 14 months. And their incidence from wounds from. booby traps, wounds and death from booby. traps was 45% lower than any other. platoon. and the Marines. Wow. Did they continue. that training? No. We of course not. We found that if you. wire. these two, the index finger and this.

finger, just have a wire coming off. these two fingers going to a computer. and a person's wearing a head pair of. headsets, let's say, and they're. listening to white noise, you know, just. that hiss, and they're comfortably. listening to the white noise and. suddenly there's a uh a bang in that. white noise. It startles them. What. happens on the recording for those two.

wires is what you get is a huge spike. and then a quick die off. It's their. emotional response that bang. One and a half seconds out in front of. that is a little bump. that occurs. That little bump occurs. every time a startling reaction is going. to occur. So he came up with the idea, you take. four guys in a jeep or a 5tonon or a 3/4.

or whatever. You take three or four guys, you wire. them together, you run them through a. averaging box into a computer and the. computer monitors looking for that. little bump. And when it sees one of those little. bumps, it lights up three red LEDs in. the leading edge of a helmet. And the guy driving the truck or. whatever who's operating the vehicle is. wearing that helmet. And when those.

light up, he stomps the brake. immediately. The IED will go off in front of him. Whoa. At a broadside. Whoa. We set up. core of engineers. We got a mock village. core of engineers to set the IEDs. unbeknownst to anybody. We wanted volunteers from the Marine. Corps of the Army to test this. And they all agreed up to the point of. actually doing it and everybody backed.

out. Why don't they back out? You can. demonstrate it in a lab. You can. demonstrate it. Why wouldn't you test. that? I have no idea. Neither do I. It's craziness. It is. It is. But all. human beings have these capacities. It's. it's built into us. I mean, it's a.

survival mechanism. It's ancient. It. goes back to the beginnings of human. It's the reason we coveret the earth. We're we we're in charge of the entire. world now. There are no cave bears. anymore, no saber-tooth tigers. The. predators of humans are all gone. And we. don't have long nails. We don't have. extra fur. And we certainly don't have. the savagery of a saber-tooth tiger.

Why Why aren't we gone? Mhm. They are. All the predators of humans are gone. from the beginning of man to now. except man itself. Except man. Man. himself. And guess who the greater. predations coming from on man is man. himself. So can you remote view through time? Yes, not a problem. You you can go back.

in time, you can go forward in time. And and there's there's some proof that. no human being operates in the moment. ever. We're affected by our past. We're. affected by our future. We know that to. be true. We just don't know what the. aperture is. We do know. going into the past is way easier than. going into the future. And the reason. why as you go into the past,

all the concepts that support action in. the past, you're familiar with. like you light a stick of dynamite, it's. going to blow up. And you know that. because that concept's real. So you go. into the past and you see a booby trap. with dynamite. It's understandable. you go into the future just sometimes. just hours maybe a week or two weeks or.

a couple months. things happen for which no extent. there's no existing. concept that supports it an example. would be let's say we live in 1970. and we target a lab a specific room in. Sylvania labs. in 1975. where they built the first pump laser.

where they got it up to enough range. they could punch a hole through 4 in of. stainless steel. target that 1970 and tell me how they. did it. You can't. All you can do is say. there's a beam of light going through 4. in of stainless steel. Mhm. How did they. do that? Beats the hell out of me. It's like. somebody said to me once, I got targeted.

on a on an accelerator. and I tried to sketch it. You ever have. you ever been inside a accelerator room? Not to my knowledge. You couldn't you. couldn't photograph it? Never mind. sketch it. I mean, it's like, and I told. the guy, I said, "I'm trying to draw. this thing for 2 hours, and I finally. said I finally said, "Oh, to hell with. this. It's an accelerator.

There's no way I could draw the goddamn. thing." I mean, excuse me. But I mean, would it be. would it be possible to manipulate the. past or the future? Manipulate what again? Would it be. possible to manipulate time? Some things that have happened in the. past or things that are going to happen. in the future. I suppose you could if you had enough. advanced warning on something. You could.

be looking for it to the point that you. could use it. Well, I mean, I guess you. actually have already answered my. question. if with the lights, you know, and the helmet and stopping a foreign. ID, that would be technically. manipulating the future. The things we. don't know is do does that become a. permanent thing or do people learn their. way out of it? In other words, it that's all fine and good. It works. perfectly for let's say 3 months. Mhm.

And it works so well they don't know. what an IED is. And so it slowly dissolves that little. bump away and the next IED gets them. all. And now you're back to, you know, Gotcha. I mean, I have a lot more. of your remote viewings that I'd like to. discuss, but another question that pops. into my head is how how do you keep. yourself from exhaustion?

Meaning, I could see somebody like you becoming. somebody's favorite new toy. I want to. know this. I want to know that. I want. to know this. And I need you to do this, you know. And so, how how do you. did that? That had to have happened with. all the egos in DC and and then within. the intelligence agencies. the first occasion and it's the one of. the primary reasons why I retired from.

the army. from. mid 1982. until September 1st of 84. I was the. only viewer. There were no other. viewers. They brought in new people but. they were self- selected. These were. people who said to the general when he. asked and that was a different general. now, General Bert Stubblebind, they whenever he asked.

uh someone, "What do you think about. this?" They said, "Oh yeah, and I'm. psychic.". Okay. Okay. And he bought it and brought. him back to the headquarters. But then they had to be trained to be. psychic. And the training everybody. bought was the training devised by a guy. named Mingo Swan who worked for Stanford. Research Institute. He came up with a training system that. was never approved by anybody. Everybody.

thinks it was approved by Hal Putoff. It. never was approved by Hal Putoff. how. put off allowed him to do that because. he needed the training system to. maintain the project research. and so Ingo Swan became the trainer of. the army people that were recruited by. self- selection. The problem with that. is there's so much wrong with that.

You now have people, like I said, anybody can remote view. I I teach. people. I've had one person in 16. different programs. or possibly more. I don't know how many. I've done now, who. one person who said they couldn't remote. view from the six days of training I. gave them. At the end of the training, I.

always say to people, everybody who is. totally convinced that they remote. viewed during this 6 and 1/2 days or 6. days, raise your hand. Everybody raised. their hand. And I always I always preface that by. saying doesn't have to be great remote. viewing. I'm just talking that you know. for a fact that you gave some item of. detail about a target that you did not. have a clue about before.

and that detail turned out to be. correct. That would be what you call. remote viewing. They all raised their. hand except for one person that was a a. reporter who was collecting data to. write a report on. Uh so I know everybody can remote view. to some degree. The problem is. afterwards. they don't nobody wants to do the.

practice. Nobody wants to beat. themselves against the wall for the next. 3 years to be really good at it. No, that's when they start looking for. the okay, what's the easy part? Mhm. When do I get the pill? that I take. Yeah. And I'm a master remote viewer. Would you say that about bowling? If somebody taught you how to bowl, that's my that's my question to them. And they go, why would I do that?

Bowling's fun. Well, it's the same thing. Um, how clear. I mean what state of mind are you in. when you are what is your do you have a. do you prepare for for for for a. viewing? That's a that's a great. question that I have what I call a cool. down period. That's where I have to get.

all the. crap out of my head. I want to be as. clear-headed as I can be when I start. doing a problem. If I can't get all the crap out of my. head, it just gets in the way. Or I. can't control my ego. It gets in the. way. I want to get all those things out of. the way. So, when I do a remote viewing, uh, I have what I call the cool down. period. It's where I, you know, just slow everything down, get.

as much out of my head as I can before I. do a remote viewing. How long does that take you? It was. getting upwards an hour and a half. That's it. Well, that's long enough when. you got a deputy director hanging out. waiting for his answer. Yeah. They don't. wait an hour and a half. I'll tell you. that right now. They like want it right. now. I I mean I just I feel like it. would take me a month to clear my head.

Sometimes I wish I had a month to clear. mine. Me too. What what I I started going to the. Monroe Institute. many years ago. Okay. The Monro Institute is probably the most. important place I found in my life. because. I learned to I started going there when. I had this problem. and. clearing your head clearing my head and. when it got to be an hour and a half an.

hour and 35 minutes I started getting a. lot of difficulties from my boss in the. remote viewing. place at Fort need. He said, "Go find a way to clear your. head better, faster." So I said, "Yeah, okay.". The institute, the Monroal Institute, taught me very quickly how to use their. technology to.

become calm, empty my mind, and be. prepped for remote viewing. I cut the. hour and a half to literally 3 to 5. minutes. What kind of technology is this? They. use sound there. Um they use different. uh programs to. uh elicit that response, that calming. response, that ability to. see something other than the immediate.

moment to see something other than who. and what you are. Their their whole their whole premise at. the institute is to help human beings. discover that they are a lot more than. what's encased in this this physical. body. That your spiritual nature, your. whole presence on the planet, your job, everything about you is important.

and can be used for the betterment of. human beings. and and that's I love the place for. that. They and they teach you how to. reach out and go places you just would. never choose to go in terms of. development, in terms of belief, in. terms of being open-minded, that sort of thing. Um, you.

I think maybe I like it so much because. as we discussed very early on about. my angst with racism and all of that, there is none of that there at the. institute. You go and spend a week there. with 22, 20 other people. and they become family and it doesn't. matter where they're from, who they are, what they do in life, how much money. they have. None of that matters. It's.

like 22 human beings coming together. gifted with a belief and an. understanding that they're all equal and. they all have a presence in the world. They all have the power to change it and. they all have open minds and they can. all. relate in some way. I've supported the institute.

for as long as I've been a remote viewer. and I probably will to the day I die. because they're that good. And it's not. just one individual. It's it's. everything it was created to be. And. believe me, it's been a battle hanging. on to that for them because. enlarging it to a certain point would. destroy that. Making it smaller to a. certain point would destroy that.

Bringing in too much ego would destroy. that. trainers have to be have to earn their. right to train there or it would destroy. that. Everything about it is in balance. or tries to be in balance. The fact that it has survived its. developer which is Robert Monroe. and my beautiful wife and his wife if it.

weren't for those two women he never. would have succeeded. uh he brought the the idea. He brought. the. uh the creativity to it. He did a lot of. that stuff. He obviously designed the. sounds that are used, the technologies, that sort of thing. But he was like a rough cob. It wouldn't. have worked if it hadn't been for his. wife who was a.

beautiful, wonderful woman in her own. right, who was very creative. and a designer at heart and took care of. the softer things to include softening. him a little bit. And my wife, who I'm proud to say. was the director, actually was the first. person who started it with him. So, she. was the chief cook, bottle washer, letter writer,

drove around in a truck with a helper. with the mattresses in the back, you. know, that kind of thing. Wore a lot of. hats. Yeah. Right. Um, if it weren't for the effort of. those three people, it wouldn't be what it is today. So, sounds like a fascinating place. I would. like I go there and reduce my cool down. from an hour and a half to 3 to 5. minutes. I'm not kidding you. The. technology sticks. Wow. What Bob Monroe.

made a tape for me with his sounds and I. used it for quite a while and you know. tapes stretch after a while. They're no. longer the same and my tape started. stretching. So I went into him one. morning and I said I was there for one. of those elongated weekends. I said, "Bob, my tape stretched. It's no good. anymore." So he took it out of my hands. and threw it in the trash can and walked.

away. And I said, "Whoa, whoa, wait a. minute, Bob. I need another tape.". He said, "No, you don't.". He said, "Close your eyes and remember. what it sounded like.". And I did. And you know, today you can. wire me up and I can still do that and. you'll see the the hemisync hemispheric. synchronization. occurring in my brain. Once you have that effect embedded in. you, doesn't go away. Wow. You can keep.

regenerating it just by closing your. eyes. You remember what it sounded like? That's how I do my cool downs. And some of my remote viewings that I. got into, I wouldn't have been able to do without. it because. the stuff I did in Japan looking for. missing people. Typical remote viewing for that would be. sometimes 6 to 8 hours.

started 8:30 or 9 in the morning and. wouldn't stop. Straight through. All I. did was drink ice water the whole time. Are you mentally and physically. exhausted after a session? No more than you would be if you were. intently working on something for 6. hours. Oh, good. Okay. Same exhaustion. Somebody asked me once, can you do. remote viewing when you have the flu? I don't know. How effective are you at. your desk when you have the flu? Mhm.

It's the same thing. It it it's no more. difficult, no less difficult than a. normal job. Oh, good. Once you get used. to it. Oh, good. You beat yourself up. initially. Do you think that you have do you. continue to. do you continue to hone your skills and. become better or have you plateaued? No, I've never plateaued and I've never.

lost capability. Okay. Originally, everybody thought somebody who was. psychic would be very psychic to a peak. and anyway, I slowly lose it. There was. uh this kind of slow failure rate. I've been I well I did it for 44 years. It took three attempts at retirement, but I finally stopped doing it. Uh I think that was mainly because of my. my habituation of going yes I'll take.

care of that. finally went away in me because it was. becoming. more invasive and more tiring than not. So. uh you know I'm I'm ready to let. somebody else step up. Mhm. The problem. is. nobody wants to work at it this hard. I. I won't lie to anybody. I've had to to. hammer at it for 44 years. It's not not.

magic. It doesn't happen. It And then you're magically gifted. No, you you have to hammer at it over and. over and over all the time. And if you stop for like a month to. clear your head, you got to go back to. square two and start over. Okay? Because. you lose. that rhythm that's in that. Um.

so no, it's hard. I I wouldn't lie to. anybody. The problem is everybody wants a magic. pill. They they don't want to hammer. away at it. Yeah. Now, I've met one or. two really gifted people that could be. world class remote viewers. They don't want to spend the time on it. Actually, they can't. They have. families, you know, they have to support. their families. When I retire, of course, the army paid. for everything when I was doing it.

When I retired from the army, I started well I there's that proverbial. ego stepping in. My wife and I started a. company called Intuitive Intelligence. Applications. It's incorporated now 30 something 38. years or something in Virginia. We started the company thinking that.

that we could make a living doing remote. viewing for people and companies and. that sort of thing. And I remember when we started, the one. thing we said to each other, well, we'll give it a year and see. whether it's going to work or not. 30 some years ago. and it worked great. and and and.

the the way it's worked is you know it's. been up and down up and down up and down. but because I don't advertise anywhere. it's all word of mouth one person to. another. most of my. corporate stuff which has been very. supportive I mean very. supportive. was. was because I guarantee total anonymity.

to any of my customers. And the reason why is because most. corporations I did work for had CEOs and. CFOs that were. publicly owned companies. And if they. knew a psychic was advising their CEO or. their CFO, bad things would happen. So, we just didn't tell anybody. I was. like hired as a information manager or.

something. And there were a couple. companies I worked for off and on for 15. or 20 years. And I have to tell you, I. made a ton of money from them. And. there are a couple individuals I worked. very hard for for a number of years. Uh, one one guy wrote books about things. like the Titanic and stuff like that. I. did the remote viewing for him and it. turned out my remote viewing was more.

accurate than written history because he. went as far as going back to the records. of the interviews with the people that. were rescued. and found that things I said in my. reports were accurate things written. about it by history were wrong. like there were two guys in the tower. together when they hit the iceberg. Uh, one guy in the tower, the other guy was.

in the kitchen getting a tin of tea. and didn't even know it was going to. happen. And that's never been in history reports. until my remote viewing. Now it's in. history reports. Wow. Stuff like that. Wow. Um, I started out uh. Well, we digressed too much there. Let's. let's let's talk about the colonel that.

was kidnapped by an Italian Marxist. group. Oh, General Doer. Yeah. The Road Bata. The Red Brigade. kidnapped him. They took him in the in. the evening. I think it was about 6:30. in the evening. They just kicked his. door in and went into his his living. room or not into his uh house. and they uh duct taped his wife to a. chair in the kitchen, blindfolded her and everything and they. took him.

and so she wasn't discovered till 7:00. a.m. the following morning by a maid. that came in. and that's the first time they knew that. he had been kidnapped. So, they had no idea where they where he. they took him. They It was just like a. 10-hour head start. And they were well. known for going straight into a. communist block country with their their. hostage. They were also well known for.

collecting a ransom and then sending the. hostage back in multiple boxes. So, it. it was a pretty. pretty harsh thing that they were. looking forward to. So they really. wanted to find him. And. so it was all all hands on deck. And. again, Hartley Trent did a lion's share. of that work. And. what I did is I kept saying.

they didn't take they they took him to a. place called Padua. Well, Padua is an. archaic name for Revena, which was the. city he was kidnapped in. And so they started thinking, well, Joe. keeps saying Padua, so maybe it's the. archaic part of the city, the old part. of the city. So they went to the old. part of the city and they found what. Harley Trent and I both described. as a dead end street. and it was exactly as he and I had.

sketched it. Adjacent to it was a big apartment. building. So, there's four entries to this. apartment building. The problem was, is he being held in the apartment. building? And if we go into the. apartment to look for him, we only have. a finite amount of time once we kick the. door in because they intend to kill him. if they hear us coming. Okay. So, we tried to work all that out. So,

we're doing remote viewing and and DIA. took our remote viewings and put them. together and sent them over to the. Italians. Well, the Italians put them. with all the other psychic information. they got. So, they got like 900 psychics. in Italy who all knew where he was. And so, they had this mess of psychics. So they took the top two psychics they. knew of in Italy and they went with the.

first one. and went to a hotel and kicked the door. in on a room and and caught one of their. senior statesmen. in bed with another guy. Problem was he. was married and three kids. That huge. stink all over the front page. So they thought about the second psychic. that they knew really well in Italy and. they followed that person and did what. she said and kicked another door in and.

caught a guy with three women who was. also married and had kids was a polit. political guy. Another big headline. So he took all the psychic material and. dumped it in the trash can. Said no more. psychics. DIA and our State Department went off. No, you will use our stuff. Send it back over. My understanding is in the backseat of a.

jet. with the guy carrying it, the briefcase. barfing all the way. with the refuelings and all this stuff. So he gets there and he said, "You will. use this stuff. or all my barfing for no good." And no, he He suggested they use it. So they. used it. So now they got this quandry. They want to go into this building. Well, in the interim, they caught a. cousin or a brother or something of one.

of the red brigades members. And he said, "Yes, they have a safe room. in one of those apartments.". But he didn't know what staircase. He. just knew it was in that apartment. building. So, the big problem was. which entry? Which entry? Well, Harley. Trent came in one morning and he said, "I've been working on this all night. I. can't come up with anything. All I kept.

getting was the smell of roses.". Well, it turned out there was a rose. garden in front of one of the entries. My understanding is that's the sole. reason they went in that entry. And they. got the guy just before he pulled the. trigger on the back of his head. Wow. And he was chained to a radiator. inside a tent that had been erected. inside the apartment. He's eyes and his he had uh headsets.

taped over his ears. He was listening to. acid rock the whole time and his eyes. had been blindfolded and he had a head. cloth wrapped around him and taped so he. had no idea where he was. He couldn't. hear anything. but the whole time he was thinking of. his family and everything. Well, that's. something else Trent came up with. Uh I. didn't have a lot of that, but I had a. lot of descriptors of the tent and stuff.

like that. So. what we did when he was rescued is we. brought him to our unit. We flew him. back to the states and brought him to. our unit. and handed him all the reports. Uh shuffled them all together in a nice. way and put them in a folder. And I think he spent like five or six. hours going over it over and over and. over.

And we asked him if he had any comments. afterwards and he said, "Yeah." He said, "There are a couple comments. One is. every thought I ever had about my family. is dead accurate in this report." You're. you kidding me? No. He said, "Secondly.". He said, "I can't vouch for anything. that was going on around me because I. didn't know. But the fact that you the Italian police.

came in and saved me, I got to say they. knew somehow or another that I was being. held and how I was being held. The 10, all the rest of that stuff is accurate. He said, "I have one recommendation. You need to start a school where. important people in important jobs are. taught how and what to think to affect. their own rescues.

I thought that was a brilliant. statement. Me too. I have no idea where it went, but everything publicized about him says. I don't know anything about psychic. function, which is great. That was our cover. But another guy. who was a hostage. uh being held in Tyran. um we monitored the hostages in Tyran.

for 14 months for their health and. welfare and how they're being treated. that sort of thing. And uh. Hartley again he came in one morning and. said they're going to release a hostage. but I don't know his name. It has it. rhymes in some way with the face guards. in a deck of cards. Well, it turns out the guy's name was uh. Queen.

and he was released because he had MS. and that Heartley said his name rhymes. with uh face card in some way and I. think he has MS. That's what he said. Based on that report, they sent an. entire team of doctors, experts in MS to. uh to Germany. 4 days later, they released Queen. He.

had MS. In the meantime, the State. Department said, "This whole report. reports bogus by your guy. because none of our people who have MS. would ever have been sent overseas.". And he never made that claim ever in his. lifetime. Well, it turned out he lied. cuz he wanted to go overseas. So, it flared up. It was in remission. when he went overseas and when he was. taken hostage, it flared up.

So. all of that turned out to be correct. The other thing that we we saw spiderw. webs in the trees of the courtyard. Spiderw webs turned out to be trip wires. to the claymores mounted in the trees. Uh we saw an entry exit possibility. through the. underground septic systems. and it was through the fact that there.

was an opening to the septic systems. that was square which was unusual. It's the only place in the world with. square manhole covers cuz they fall into. the hole if you open them. And uh. everywhere else they're round. Um and it goes on and on and on. Wow. They wanted to insert a guy in the. compound that could do nighttime recon. ordering. And the problem was they needed.

reporting capability, that sort of. thing. Well, there was a boat in the car. garage. It had been demasted. It had an. onboard radio. It had food on board. It. had everything but the batteries to run. the radio. And had a whole bunch of cars. in there with batteries. Whe they use that or not, I don't know. But I can tell you, I got called in once. um by someone in the Pentagon who wanted.

to know why. we knew as much about a rescue attempt. as the top 11 people designing the. rescue attempt. He wanted to know who our source was. And I said, "It's psychic information.". And then he said that was. that he wanted to know the source or I. wasn't going to walk out of his office. And he put a 45 on the desk to. prove it.

Where'd he go with that? I told him some things about his. relationships. that he didn't want to hear. But I. walked out of there. all my hair. standing up back of my neck. I mean, stupid stuff like that. Um, we we were. getting indications for months, you know, uh, stolen vehicles, uh,

automatic weapons being put together and. hidden. Uh, blockages being built out of. concrete block in certain entryways. guys in hotel rooms with telescopes. I mean, it was going on and on and on. and we didn't know what to do with it. So, we started putting it in an. addendum. That was a mistake. Wow. Damn. Now, here's the thing. If.

we're doing that, why wouldn't terrorist organizations be. doing that? Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't make any. sense. It's scary. Yeah. Scares the hell. out of me. Bothers me a great deal. So, all you need is that little window, that little mistake. to capitalize on. What. after this? I believe did is this when. you retired?

After going two years without any relief. at all as a viewer, I said that's it. I'm done. The general, General Bert Stubblevine at. the time offered me anything I wanted. Said, "You want to be a line officer? You want rank? You want money? You want. what is it you want? I can hire you back. as a GS15.

Just don't leave.". I said, "No, I want to retire. That's. what I want.". And so I submitted my retirement papers. and I waited, waited, waited. Two months. went by and never saw him again. So I. went into the to the office, the uh. place where I got the papers done up. Oh, you Bert Silverine came in like a. month ago and tore them up. Said you. didn't want to retire.

So I did all my retirement papers again. and went to him first. said, "Just sign. right here, general, on the top. You get. to be the first one.". I really don't want to do this. Just. sign right here, General. So, he signed. him and I hand carried him around. and retired. What did you get the Legion of Merit. for? I got it for two things.

Uh, I was surprised by it actually. I. can send you a copy of it if you like to. see it. Thank you. I was really. surprised by it because it came from the. office of the the uh secretary of the. army. Nobody wrote it up that I'm aware of. I got it for all the time I spent. overseas. doing intel work for.

NSA, ASA, CIA, you know, people like that. And the other half was for the remote. viewing. that I did. It turned out I was the only. one that got a an award for anything. done. Harley Trent should have got it. same thing. I got. another guy I. I'm not going to say his name here. because his family I know really well.

He uh dropped dead in my office, 29. years old, married less than a year, had. a baby on the way. He is another friend. of mine. He came in one day and he said. I said, "What what are you doing here? You're supposed to be in New York.". I couldn't go. There's something wrong. And I said, He handed me his briefcase. I didn't ask him what was in it. I just. put it under my desk. I said, "Let me. get you some coffee." And I went in the.

back room and I heard the thump when he. hit the floor. And I went in and uh he was laying on. the floor and I felt for a pulse and it. was threddy. So I started giving him CPR. By then I learned CPR. and uh. everybody came in and said, "What's. going on? What's going on?" Cuz I. between breaths, I was screaming out the. door, you know, call the hospital, call. an ambulance. And finally, they came.

over, took one one look at me doing CPR, and turned around and walked out. Cuz what they don't tell you about CPR. is you're giving this breath of life to. somebody and they're puking in your. mouth. the whole time. And. I guess they couldn't stand seeing that. But I gave him CPR for like 45 minutes. cuz they couldn't find us because they.

had taken our buildings off the maps. Oh man. for Fort Maid as part of our. security. and we were right across the street from. the hospital. It's finally somebody went. out the road and waved the ambulance. down. That third time it was coming down. the road with a siren. Brought him in and they brought me over. to the hospital. I talked to the doctor. there. and he said, "I brought you over cuz I. wanted you to know his blood gases were. perfect. His heart was trashed. There's.

no way you could have brought him back. I'm sorry to hear that. That's life. I felt really badly for his family, his. new family. How did it feel leaving, you know, being. retired? I mean, you'd put a lot of work. in. Did it I mean, it I felt relieved.

relieved. At the same time, I felt like. I felt like there was so much more I. could have done, but the environment was not supportive. It was terrorizing actually because we. had as many enemies as we had friends.

I had. But I'll explain it this way. The guys on the street, agents in the. field, guys that were hanging it out for. Uncle Sam, loved us. Guys at the very top, senators and congressmen and generals. and admirals that knew what we were. doing and the effect we were having,

loved us. They couldn't be damaged. They. were so high up. Didn't matter if they. were standing next to a psychic or not. Bureaucrats in the middle. Take them all. Just make a big sandwich. out of them and feed them to some big. shark. Cuz they're not worth a damn. They're. out for this in power. Mhm. They can be damaged by a psychic. They. don't want us standing next to them.

That's my. Do you miss those days? Yeah, I do. There's a lot I could have done. Instead, I wound up doing a lot for. companies and people and and I got to. say finding when you find a live missing. kid, that's like. you can't beat that with a stick. When you find one that you fought with a.

detective over or you fought for five. hours with a sheriff to get you to to. get him to do something with your. material. and then they finally find the kid and. they've used your material to do that. and they've only been dead an hour. You don't want to spend any time in the. room with them after that. because then my own desire is to just. like terminate them. Mhm. You know,

you're too stupid to be a human being. Yeah. You know, I I just feel that way. It's uh. it's enraging. to a certain point and I don't know. where to go with it. It's like, yeah. How many children did you save? Do you. know? I have no idea. Do you remember? Maybe a dozen. What is.

uh what is one that really stands out to. you? One that really stands out? I think I think the kid that they called. me about when I was in uh I was in Las. Vegas. I gave a paper at a muon group. there. gave the paper, ate a big dinner, went to bed early.

I got a call at like 2:00 in the morning. from. the mountain that overlooks where I live. now down in the valley which is all golf. courses. On the mountain it's ski resort. That's. the mountain part of winter. And I got a call from the female. uh police chief. They had a female. police chief then. and she called me at. 2 in the morning and said, "We have a. missing five-year-old and.

I understand you help with this sort of. thing.". I went, "Yeah, okay. Um. I said, "So, what you want me to do is. tell you where to go to find the kid?". "Yes." I said, "Okay. Do you know what a compass rose is?" and. she said, "Yeah, usually if you say. uh. if you say compass, they don't.

understand that drawing compass, compass, whatever.". So I said, "Uh, I can't remember the degrees." I said, "On the compass rose, you want to go to. the last place you was seen. on the compass rows you want to go to a. certain degree. and you would take I think it was 125 or. 129 step I can't remember now a specific. number of steps. uh in that direction and when you get.

there stomp and just yell his name out. and he'll probably respond. It turns out. the guy she sent to do that, the deputy. came back and said, "There's no reason. to do that. I can tell you right now, you're not going to find a kid that. way." And she said, "Why not?" And he. said, "Because I went to a class where I. was taught by the FBI on this, and kids.

under age 10 never go uphill. Never. never go uphill.". So she called me back, woke me up the. second time. This is like 20 minutes. after I went back to sleep. And I said, "Yeah, what now?" She said, "I was. getting upset." And she said, "My deputy. told me that. it's straight up the side of the. mountain and a kid would never do that. under age 10." And I said.

some pretty ugly things. I said, "Just go do what I told you." And I. slammed the phone down and got back in. bed. And she woke me up again like 15 minutes. later. I'm just getting back to sleep. again. And I said, "Okay, okay. What's going on?" And she said, "We. found him." And I said, "Thank you. Have. a good night." I hung up.

What I didn't know, and I found out. later, his father told him, "If you ever get. lost, go to the nearest light and wait. for me.". Nearest light was on the back of an. empty cabin. Somebody had left the back. the backst step light on up the. mountain. So that's where he went. And. when he got to the cabin, it was all. locked up. So he climbed up on a couch. on the back porch and laid down on a.

couch and fell asleep. Wow. And so this. this detective went up the mountain, stopped right behind the cabin and. yelled his name and he sat up and said, "What?". My gosh. And I think that was. that was the best because I was getting. so upset with the whole thing because. she kept waking me up. Just go do what I told you to do. Damn.

it. And I don't know where it comes from. It. just comes in my head. But. there there's been a couple that have. been really bad. Have you met any of the. kids? No. No. Do you want to? No. Don't. need to. Why not? Don't need it. If they're safe, they're packed with the. people who care about them. That's all. that matters.

I don't I don't beyond that. I don't I. don't eat it anything. That That's the. old intelligence stuff. Mhm. Oh, yeah. This company didn't get wiped out. It. side flanked an NVA unit. Took 190 MVA. Hey, good for you. Where'd you get the info? Who cares? In fact, they came looking for me once.

some of staff sergeant in Vietnam. and the unit I talked to. met an NVA unit moving through their. area which I knew was going to happen. and nobody was doing anything about it. So I put on lieutenant bars and went by. and saw their intel officer and he and I. discussed it and I said, "If if you were. here and you can get somebody to pro. provide you with a hard rock block here,

maybe a couple tanks, you'll turn them this way. You got them. They're in a ravine.". And that's what they did. So they came. to our unit looking for this lieutenant. They give him an award and I'm hiding. under my c. Don't tell don't tell anybody I'm here. I'm in the hole, you know, down under my. c. Don't tell anybody I'm here.

I could have gone to Levvenworth. I didn't even think about it. I did some stupid stuff. Uh. there's a certain freedom in that, you. know, when you don't have to be. responsible one way or the other. Uh,

I'd like to. I'd like to talk about some of your. other remote viewings. Now, one in. particular I'd like to discuss is. you were tasked with remote viewing Mars. from what I understand and the time. period I believe was 1 million BC. Yeah, 1 million BC. Who was that directed by? Well, when it was tasked, I was sleeping.

in the. industrial cube, the the uh. sealed cube in Bob Monroe's. uh lab at the Monroe Institute. cuz we had been working on going out of. body. and controlling it and he and I was. exhausted. So, we've been working. This. was Sunday, I think. And he woke me up.

and I said, "Uh, yeah, I'm awake. What's. going on?" He said, "Well, I have some. people here from Department of. Department of the Army and they have a. target for you.". And I said, "Okay. Um, what do you want me to do?" He said, "Well, why don't" He said, "I have an envelope. here. There's nothing written on it. It's in my pocket. Tell me something about it. So,

it started out with. a really large pyramid. And I said, first thing, words out of my mouth was, "This must be a new discovery." And he. said, "Why do you say that?" I said, "Cuz it's huge. It's bigger than the. pyramid in Giza. Must be a new discovery somewhere.". And then he said, "Uh, well, tell me. something about it. That's what I want. to know.".

And so I said, "It's got. really large rooms inside." It's kind of. surprising because the way pyramids are. built, that can't be done. You can't. have large rooms inside because of the. weight the weight of the construction. So it must be some new form of. construction. So are you sure this not a. new discovery? and he said, "Just tell. me what I need to know.". So I said, "Well, it appears to be some.

form of uh. uh. some form of protective. protection of survivors of some. cataclysm.". And uh. they're in stasis. They're waiting for. somebody to come. I said, "But I I think it's too late. I. think they're all dead." And he said, "Why do you say that?" And I said,

"Because I feel like the messages I'm. getting are like leftover mental images, things that they. pass differently from normal. or something like that." So he asked me. some other question. He moved me around. in the target and asked me some other. questions and things. and it turned out there were six. specific targets. that I was given in that particular.

case. And all six of them I described. exactly what was standing there. And when I say that, I mean what was. also pictured. in negatives by JPL, Jet Propulsion. Laboratory, California. And so I finally said it's it's like a. special race of people or something. I'm. getting humans just like we are,

but I'm not so sure they're humans like. we understand human because they're way. bigger. So, what do you mean? I said. they're like 10 ft tall. Really huge, but they're proportionately the same and. very humanike. So, I I don't know what's going on here. I said, "And the sun looks really. weird.". He said, "I don't care about the sun.

Tell me more what's on the ground.". So, he was being a pretty good monitor. at the time. And uh so we we basically. finished the whole line of it. And I. came out. I said, "What's going on?" And then. I was introduced to these people and the. guy that had brought them was Fred. Atwater, my old training officer.

So this was uh as far as I was concerned. was an active mission because we were. still doing remote fueling with the. project. And uh so I said, "So where is this? is. this a new discovery or something? And he says, "Well, Bob's got the. envelope. It has a target identified in. it." And Bob, "Oh, yeah. I got it right. here." And he pulled it out of his shirt. box and was open it up as an envelope.

Nothing written on it. And so he opened up the envelope and. inside it said Mars 1 million years BC. And I said, "Wow.". I mean, what are you gonna say? But everything everything that's. actually on the ground I described. there is a.

what I decided to do was the next time I. was in California, I was going to go by. JPL and get copies of the negatives. because. somebody said, "Oh, that's all BS." And. I said, "No, I I think they're pictures, specific pictures for the different GPS. location." See, these were all GPS's. that they read to me while I was in the. box. The GPS's.

in my mind were for Earth. I never heard of GPS's for another. planet. Mhm. It turns out every planet. in our universe has got GPS's that match. the Earth's because they're all. spherical as well as the moons and. everything else. So. I I didn't understand. it to be off the Earth. I thought GPS's.

only worked on the Earth. So that's why. I kept thinking it was a new discovery. But it it turned out I went to JPL. and I walked up to the counter and I had. the actual card that had the GPS's. written on it. Six or seven GPS's. I think there were. seven. I just didn't do the seventh. because I was too tired. I've been uh I. worked on it for maybe an hour and a. half.

and I was tired anyway from working all. day. So I walked up to the desk. and the guy said, "Can I help you?" And. I said, "Yeah, I understand. All the. pictures taken in space belong to the. American people.". And he said, "Of course they do. It's. taxes paid for them." I said, "Okay, I'd. like to see all the pictures for these. GPS's.". And he took one look at the card and he. said, "Oh, that's the old city on Mars.".

and open the drawer and pull out a. packet and handed it to me. And inside the packet are all the. negatives. And I blew up the negatives. And guess. what's in my book? Everything I described? An old fort, pyramids, uh, big impact crater with a road. running through it. There's a there's a. road run straight as an arrow for 1,200. km.

on Mars that go right through the heart. of a huge impact crater and where the. road come through. You can see where the. impact crater has been modified to let. the road through one side and out the. other. Here's here's the thing that made it. real for me. the. the outer edges of the impact crater.

They know how tall the edges are of the. impact crater because there's a half. inch of shadow line around them and they. know the angle that the picture was. taken and from where and the sun's. position and all that. So, they can tell. you that the half in of shadow line. around the outside edge of the impact. crater tells you that it's 3,000 ft. high. The walls of the impact crater,

that's not really a super high wall on. an impact crater. hot. What they don't tell you, and it's shown. in the picture, is in the upper rim edge. of the impact crater is a little. triangular piece sticks out on the side. of the impact crater. That had to have. been put there by somebody. It's It's a construct. It sticks. straight out at a perfect 90° angle. It.

goes like that. Is it part of the. pyramid? No, it's part of the wall of the impact. crater. So, you got an edge up here. 3,000 ft up and there's a triangular. piece that sticks out and goes back in. And on top of that is a pyramid. It. looks like a pyramid cuz you're looking. straight down on top of it. The shadow from that pyramid that you're.

going straight down on top of. is two and a half inches out. Now, if the impact crater has a/2 in. shadow and it's 3,000 ft tall, how tall. do you think that 2 and 1/2 in shadow. is? It's up there. I I said to the guy at JPL and he showed. them to me. I looked at it.

I said, "How tall do you figure this. is?" And he said, "Really tall." And I. said, "Okay, how did it get there?". It had to be put there after the impact. crater hit after that thing that made. the impact crater had hit Mars. It couldn't have been put there after, I. mean before because the impact would. have destroyed, blown it away. I said, "This thing is literally tens of.

thousands of feet tall. What the hell is. it?" And he said, "Well, a lot of people. think it's a shard. It kind of grew. there." And I went. I started laughing. It grew? Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure this thing grew. there. But who built the support for it on the. edge of the impact crater? Well, nobody. knows about that. It's anybody's guess.

So there's no doubt in my mind that what. they're saying about this old city is. true. because that's true. I mean. why I I it's like I ask questions about. it and they just look at you like you're. stupid. Say, "Well, we don't know. Why did you take pictures of that area. of Mars?" Uh, we don't know. How do you think that got? Well, we.

don't know. I mean, what is your thought. process after that? I I happen to think. the only aliens on our planet is us. And I have good reason to say that. I. think we're the aliens on this planet. because we don't give one rat's butt. about this planet. We take and take and. take whatever we want from it. We don't. give a damn what happens to the climate, the planet, or anything else. We have. so badly in our nest.

that you see people dying left and right. of more and more cancers and we got to. go, I wonder why that's happening. It's stupidity. It's. God almighty. and and but everybody. wants to think we're the master race. We. are human beings. We own the world. The. Bible says. take control.

Sounds apolitical to me. Maybe just a hint. I mean, is that uh is. that is that uh disturbing to you at. all? Very much so. Yeah, very much so. that everything on this planet but human. cares about this planet. if a.

if a uh group of wolves let's say wolves. out of Alaska. if they run out of food and they can't. hunt food anymore where they live they. kill off their young they kill off their. dead they move to a place where they can. find game that they can eat. Only the. strong survives, but they do it to save. their family unit. And they only kill. and eat what they need to kill and eat.

They don't do it out of savagery. And. they don't do it because they're bad. They do it because they're in tune with. the very world that they live in. They. understand it. They operate within it. They do what's necessary to survive. only. They're in another animal on this. planet. It doesn't do the same thing. except for human beings.

We We just take what we want and it. doesn't matter what it does to the. planet and we just keep doing it over. and over and over. And it's about power, money, influence in the governments of the. planet. And it's a predominant reason. for war. You know, it's what keeps the coffers. filling up. It's part of how. we can produce something that gives us.

lots of money back that we can enjoy, and all it costs is a little war here, a. little war there. And and you know, you can't not buy more. airplanes or tanks because it takes 12. states now to make a tank. That's 125,000 jobs that would disappear. overnight if we didn't buy any new. tanks. So you have Model 2, Model 3,

brand new kind, bigger gun, you know, faster tracks, whatever. You know, we. just keep. Mhm. reinventing reasons for that stuff. Why why can't we. decide to put everything back to normal. and stop all the foolishness and pay. people to do that? That seems to me to be a more realistic. way to live on a finite planet where.

we're not going to kill ourselves. or or ruin it or in some way. destroy the very thing that supports us. I think we came here because of. something that happened on Mars. Are we. were we the cause of it? Who knows? Do you ever look more into previous. viewings. out of just out of curiosity like.

perhaps? No, I can't you I can't do. that. I can't target myself because then. I know what I'm working on. Makes sense. Uh there are things that I will work on. where I know what it is I'm working on, but only because the answer is. completely unknown to anyone. that that. might be uh. um I don't know. uh who who broke into the big museum in.

Boston and ripped off three of the. finest pieces of artwork ever stolen. and where did they go and who owns them. now. I happen to think they're in private. collections and they go into these. vaults and sit in front of them once in. a while and go, "Oh, I own it." Oh, you. know, that kind of stuff. Mhm. Stolen. for a reason. That kind of thing. Um.

uh but I mean I don't know. Let's talk about Skim Walker Ranch. Did you have any affiliation with that? Yeah. Uh, I was asked by uh, Bigow. to Target Skinwalker Ranch when he owned. it. I guess he owned it. I'm not sure if. he owned it or From my understanding, Robert Bigalow owned it previous to.

Brandon Fugal. Right. That's right. Um, well, this is back when he owned it. and he asked me if I needed to go there. and I said, "No, I'll need to go to. Skinwalker Ranch." He asked me what was. going on there and I said, "I suspect. there's something bizarre going on there. that no one's faced before.". But then there's lots of places like. that all over the planet.

and uh it's going to take an involved. amount of study. You're going to have to. spend a lot of time there and do a lot. of things you might not want to do. It's. going to be expensive. And as soon as I. said that, well, you know, can I hire you to come out. take care of that? No, cuz I'll never live in. never live where you live. I'll put it. that way. Um,

you know, I think he's an interesting. guy. I think he's got a lot of interest. in different things that he's trying to. accomplish and I wish him all the luck. in the world, but I don't need to be. part of it. And I I kind of blew it off. a little bit. I did some remote viewing. for him, but I didn't come up with. anything significant. So, I think he and I just decided to go our. separate ways. Um,

I think they're. over excited and over exercising. themselves over this ranch. I think there's probably some bizarre. stuff happening there, but it has more. to do with its location. than it does anything else. There might. be, I don't know, huge electromagnetic. deformity there in some way that affects. machines and cows and people and and.

whatever. But I don't think it's. anything UFO related or. uh mysteriously related to anything. Um, I I've never really seen a really good. mystery. other than maybe the guy in the. incredible armor. in uh Thailand, but uh. well, the city on Mars seems pretty.

that's pretty far out there, but I have no reason to think it's not. real. Well, I didn't mean that. what you were saying. I understand very. well what you were saying. This is. something about until I die. I guarantee. it. My problem is when you do remote. viewing, I can't control what they. target me against. Mhm. And. as long as some people are in charge of. that,

that want to get involved in that and. know that I'm a very good remote viewer, they usually. try to generate that kind of stuff. I can usually tell when I'm being. fished. So, I try to give as honest an. answer as I can in terms of what I'm. sensing. But if I feel like I'm being used in. some way, I don't get anything. Gotcha. You know, I just don't do anything. I. just say, "Sorry, nothing's coming in.

Have a nice day.". Can you. remote view into a different dimension? I suspect it's possible. The only reason. I say that is because. I've done some remote viewing on some. things that were probably operational in. other dimensions. Uh.

trying to think of there's one project. that was going on. Um, it had to do with uh. had to do with a certain kind of. transmissions, but I can't I can't think of it right. now. It was a form of transmission. that could not be. seen or picked up on in this reality.

It was like transmitting sideways. through. our time space, but it it couldn't be. sensed or picked up on. It had to be. in sync with whatever it was receding. And I I can't remember the details of. that, but it had to do with some. mysterious things that were happening. around a ship. And I did some remote viewing on that.

Uh, no. I. I can't think of a single target that. I've been targeted on that was not. doable. Could you describe I mean in uh what. would your explanation of another. dimension be? My explanation of another dimension. would be. uh place you would go to turn right.

without anybody knowing you turn right. That's another dimension. Another. dimension could also be. how we live our lives. Here here's how I view. human interaction. You're uh you and I are interacting in. this room right now. Uh we met each. other formally the first time this. morning.

When we're all done here and I leave, uh if we never saw each other again, somebody could say to me, "Did you meet him?" And I could say, "Yeah, I met him." And they could say, "Well, what do you think he's doing. now?" And I could say, "I haven't got a. clue. He's not in my world anymore.". Your your world is where you are and. what you're doing. And that's real only.

while you're doing it in that place at. that time. When you change places, you're with. different people. So, the best somebody. you were with earlier can say is, "I. know what I think he goes and does, but. I can't tell you if he actually does. it.". I mean, we make a lot of assumptions. about what we all know about each other.

You really can't make those assumptions. because we don't know if reality. operates that way or not. Um, two people who spend a lot of time. together, like a husband and wife, share. an almost. known agreeable world that they operate. within. together because they have certain. expectancies for what the other person's. going to do and they always do it. Like.

they always come home or they always go. to work. They always raise the money. that feeds puts the food on the table. They always do certain things. So that's. a kind of a shared reality. But if one of them disappears in the. middle of that, you can't say that they're in the same. world anymore. They could be in a. completely different reality. The best I could ever say is that when I. would meet you again, you could tell me.

what you did and I could say I believe. you, but I can never know that to be true. The only thing I can actually know about. the world I'm in is what I experience. directly. So having said that, it's nice to be able to be with people. and say, "I believe everything you tell. me because you have walked in many parts.

of the same world I perceive that I've. walked in." doesn't mean what we that. we've had exactly the same experiences. or we've been in exactly the same place. in time. But it does mean that we've had similar. things happen in our worlds that we can. identify them together and talk about. them. There's no guarantee that we're not. completely in different worlds though. In other words,

when I leave here, if I make a decision. that takes me somewhere else, um I'm I'm actually stepping out of. uh I'm actually stepping out of time. space into a different time space. I'm finding it's very difficult to. explain. how how kind of my belief structure. works. We're doing a great job. I think that.

reality, we make a lot of assumptions. about reality and people we know and. people and things that happen and don't. happen. And I think that that's. that's not a good thing. I think we need. to be more. more understanding about the things that. we can relate to one another that may be. of value to us. versus what we believe about someone.

else which may or may not be true. In. other words, I'm more interested in talk. sitting and talking with somebody and. have them relate to me where they've. been, what they did, that sort of thing. And it's not about saying, well, I. understand that's true because history. says that's true. No, I'm interested in. what the person says was true because. they did it. I want to believe them.

because they say they did it might have. been in a completely different world. that stands alone from my world. In. other words, there's there's an. assumption that we're all on this. planet. We're all sharing this planet. and there's no guarantee that's. happening. In a construct of reality, you have to question. whether or not people who go to the same.

place go to the same same place. If you understand what I'm saying, because there's no relation to two. people going to the same place. Ideally, they might have experienced it. completely differently or it may be in a. different bubble than the one I'm in. In. other words, I I look at reality as a. just a huge room full of bubbles.

And when I make a decision, I'm not. going from this bubble to the tangent. bubble. I'm going this bubble to some other. bubble somewhere else that's within the. room of bubbles. When you and I are together, we're. tangent bubbles. But when we leave one another, we go to. different bubbles in the same room full. of bubbles. You understand what I'm. saying? So reality for me is a massive.

bubbles. of possibility. where we all go different ways for. different reasons and we collect. experiences that are. somewhat similar maybe but never the. same. So it it's hard for me. I can always say. to somebody, I trust you. I believe you. I accept what you're telling me as truth. and that's the best I can do. I can.

never say I know exactly what you're. talking about. It's it's I see what. you're I mean it's it's like the. argument does a tree make a sound when. it falls and nobody's around. Right. You. can't ever prove it. You can't prove it. one way or the other. Likewise, I and. I'm I'm furiously picky about this. sitting in a bar in New York. and they had.

Cali Cali on TV. My lie. butchering people in my eye and some guy. at the other end of the bar says, "If. that was me, I'd never do that.". And I had to get up off my bar stool and. walk down to the end of the bar and look. him dead in the eye and say, "You don't. have a clue what you would do or not. do." in the same circumstance and I'd. appreciate it if you didn't condemn the. man.

without knowing.". And I walked back down and sat on my. stool and the guy got up and walked out. of the bar. It's like. that's truth. What he was saying, that ain't truth. That's what he thinks. There's a huge difference between what. you think and what you know to be true. And I can tell you I have seen enough in. this world to never want to condemn.

somebody for something they do when I. wasn't standing there watching it. I would never do that. Well, that's a. damn good way to live. Yeah, because we don't know what we would do. in the same circumstances as other. people. And it's the very reason why we. shouldn't put people in jail for life. How long did it take you to arrive at. this point to this point? Uhhuh.

A lot of mistakes, a lot of understanding in my own. very uh. [Applause]. unlearned reality. or my. nonfunctioning understanding for how. things work. And when you find that out, you find. you're. more tolerable.

to some extent, less tolerable than. others. Um, it's I think the very reason why. [Applause]. I really wish I didn't know things about. people through the media. because it makes me form. pretty hard rock feelings about some. things that I shouldn't have.

And uh I could really digress into that. easily. It's uh. it's the seed that's been planted. Yeah. That you didn't want. Yeah. Right. I. don't want to hear it. And and not only. that, but it upsets the apple cart for. me in some cases where I would much. rather be ignorant. Mhm. because then I'm less judgmental.

about it. When you're not ignorant, you can afford. to be judgmental. And that's a wrong way to be, I think, cuz it doesn't afford other people. the ability to. explain their cause, explain their. reasons, or explain why. they are the way they are. Now there's some circumstances when I.

think that's necessary. When would that occur? Well, I think. it's necessary. when it come when you put someone in a. position. of authority over huge amounts of. people. You have to have some truth from that. person. If you can't get truth from them, they. don't be in that. they shouldn't be in. that position.

So they have to be answerable to some. degree. So no one can have just pure authority. over other people and not be challenged. They need to be challenged. And when in. the challenging of them, they need to be. able to step up and say, "This is this. is my thinking. This is where I'm coming. from. this is why I did what I did.

And you need to listen to them. And if. it makes sense, then that's fine. If it. doesn't make sense, maybe they're just. not giving you the whole truth. Or maybe. you need more information or whatever. But. I think when people are in charge of. other people with great authority, I. think they have to be very careful about. what they do. Otherwise, they need to be explaining. it. Yeah, I'm with you.

I'd like to go over another one of your. veilings. Uh this is this is my last. minute research uh that I was doing last. night uh before breakfast this morning. And um. I'd like to talk about Mount Hayes, Alaska. Okay, that's it. Mount Hayes. I couldn't. remember the name of the mountain. Um,

again, I don't know what I'm remote. viewing when I'm remote viewing it. Okay. It's a totally unknown target to. me. Uh, the fact that it's been applied. to Mount Hayes, I don't have any trouble with. The. trouble I might have with it is what I. the interpretation. of what I might have said. Uh, is there some form of embedded base.

in that mound? Probably. Is it wellnown? Probably not. If you were to try to seek that out in. that mountain, would it be a good thing or a bad thing? Uh, it could go either way depending on. what you find. Uh, is it a specific kind of base? That's. where I start getting into issues over. what I say or don't say.

Uh, I've been targeted on a lot of things. and this is part of a paper I gave at. MUON. When people target me on like a UFO, they're looking what they're really. looking for is a remote viewing or. remote viewer that tells them there's an. alien on board this ship and they're. from. full of godly uh star system or.

something. You're not going to get that from remote. viewing. What you may get from remote. viewing is. in this particular case, there's a. an entity on board, but I don't know what the hell they're. doing, you know. Well, okay. Do you. interpret that as an alien? Well, it. depends on what it is in actuality,

um, or what it is you're doing. if you. want to make that leap. But the the. problem with all of this is people have. certain assumptions going in. and if I'm doing a target for them and I. give them the raw input that I'm giving. them, sometimes they can interpret it their. own way and that's what they do. Mhm. Other times. they just keep the parts that support.

their belief or their theory and they. discard the parts. that don't support it. That kind of. thing. You're saying they manipulate the. truth? Well, they manipulate part of the. truthing certainly and uh and and leave. other sections out. What did you. experience? What I did experience is I. did experience there's some kind of a. hidden base in Mount Hayes and there's.

probably three different directions of. getting to it and there's probably. something going on there that we need to. know about. I'm talking about the pregnant Wii, you. know, the media we. wouldn't it be interesting to know. what's going on there? that kind of we. um. in terms of it being actually aliens, I. wouldn't go so far as to say that cuz I. think we're actually aliens, but.

I gave my reasons for that. Mhm. Um. I just I don't know. I'd have to re review the the result. to be able to tell you whether or not I. even buy my own remote viewing. You. know, one of the problems with remote. viewing is you don't know what when you. don't know. I don't know if that says much, but.

Well, from there's some things you come. up with. that you interpret badly that you're. wrong about in remote viewing. Well, it doesn't sound like you're the. only one that remote viewed uh Mount. Hayes. No, there's some others, too. And. it may be that I'm just confirming their. viewing. I I don't know. It depends on. how it was presented to me at the time. Um,

do you remember anything about a small. nuclear power plant? Yeah, I do. In fact, that's like a. 55gallon drum buried in the ground, maybe 160 ft down. They just dig a tube, drop it in the bottom of the tube with. two feeder cables coming out, and it. produces power for. 25,000 years or something goes inert and. it's buried in the ground 160 ft. Uh.

in fact I I do know I remote viewed one. of those once. more than once actually. So that may be. one of the ones where I did and I said. we need we need these things for housing. developments in the middle of nowhere. that that would be a great power system. for him. Wouldn't need any other. infrastructure. It sounded like.

you had also said something along the. lines of a on top of a dome there was an. emitter sending large amounts of energy. into space. I can't can't answer that. I don't. remember. Do you remember anything about Mount. Zeal? No, nothing at all about that. Mount. Pido. Purdo. That's in Spain. Yes, sir. Yeah.

Yeah. I remember saying that uh Mount. Praido has a lot hidden in it because. it's a mount where there's lots of. um. you know where the white out on a. mountain is? I do. When you're on top of. a mountain and the clouds come in and if. you take one more step, you don't know. if it's going to be a short one or long.

Mount Purito is one of those mountains. If you're ever on that mountain, it's. like best be careful because you can get. whited out up there in a heartbeat. So, there are some things that I think that. are hidden about that mountain. Uh, I might have talked about that. I, you. know, I honestly I can't remember this. stuff now. It depends on who did the analysis and.

who put this together. Okay. And and and. I'm I'm trying to be fair here because. I I honestly don't remember what I said. about. some of these places. And uh. I find it. dangerous to consolidate stuff from. multiple viewers because some of the. viewers might not have.

been as qualified. I I don't know. I I. just don't know. Do you remember anything about I'm going. to butcher this name. Mount. Nangani. Uh it's in Africa, right? I believe so. Yeah. Uh. uh only that it's part of the.

Zulu nation. There's a tribe there that guards it. Guards that mountain. doesn't like. people going up or down a mountain. Uh, see, one of the problems here, since we've tweaked the radars. on some of the Navy planes, Mhm. they've.

been capturing the Tic Tacs. Tic tacs actually go all the way back to. Trinity when they set the bomb off at. Trinity at Tren Trinity in the desert. That's when the first tic tac showed up. and that was a crash. Uh I think it was 12 miles away from. Trinity, but that was right after the. bomb went off at Trinity, the test test.

bomb. What they didn't tell people when they. detonated that bomb, they didn't tell. anybody that it was a nuclear weapon. that went off. They told everybody in. the area that it was a. a detonation of a huge. ammo dump that the army had been dumping. stuff in for years. And that all the dust and crap in the. air was from that ammo dump.

spontaneously going off. The problem is it spread radioactivity. out for like 1,200 miles in one. direction. It cover it deposited. significant radioactive material on top. of something like 1,200 ranches where. they raised cows and. uh sheep and goats and chickens and pigs. and all that stuff.

People died prematurely in all those. ranches from radiation poisoning. people. who ate the animals died of prematurely. of radiation poisoning. They never told. anybody the truth. And the problem with that is. now we have. uh things that are believed about that. entire event that may or may not be. true.

Tic tacs are kind of the same problem. They. they I talked I talked with some. to some degree with some people I know. that are very much into the UFO field. And some of them say yes, this in fact. happened that a tic tac crashed. immediately afterwards. Well, it was a. couple weeks later after the bomb was.

detonated. and um the radiation might have affected. it. And this tic tac. by virtue of the way it was described by. people who discovered it first, which. were kids. long before the army came in and. spirited it away. uh their descriptions are good. descriptions for something that was. manufactured,

not not flown in from another world or. flown in from a even a place somewhere. out in our solar system. It it actually is an object that was. manufactured. Its manufacturer was extremely advanced. And the kids who stole. stuff out of the walls of this after it. crashed, it was like uh.

hair hairike stuff came out of the walls. and it tingled when you held it in your. hands. And. if you. took it out at night, it would glow in. the dark. And it did. So it glowed in. the dark for like 25 years because some. of these kids that stole parts of this. stuff were putting it on their Christmas. trees. for 25 years because it glowed in the. dark.

So that's not human manufacturer. That's. manufactured by somebody else. So, it stands to reason that if Tic Tacs. are being manufactured somewhere, it's. probably on this planet because they're. not able to travel into the vacuum of. space. They're only able to travel high. speeds on this planet. It may be. that the people who manufacture the tic. tacs live in certain areas on our planet.

that are unknown to us because that's. what they've done for thousands of. years. It's our rival that changed. everything. So, what if these are the actual inhabitants. of Earth from the very beginning and. we're not? We're the aliens. And we've come in and taken over the.

world. And now all they have to deal. with us over is how to convince us. that they are something that we're. afraid of. Not in reality. are. they capable of doing anything to. anybody. They're they're harmless. But they were able to avoid us for a.

long time with their tic tacs because of. the speed, their ability to change. direction in a 90° turn at high speeds. and their their ability to go from air. to water without making a splash, all. that stuff. And so. we're now predisposed to think that. maybe these aliens or whatever they are.

have bases on our planet somewhere. Well, they may. These may be the very bases that we're. talking about. I think if they do, then they're native. to this planet. We're we're ultimately. the the invader. were the ones who came. in and just. started taking things and taking it and. oh yeah and taking it and you know never.

stopped. it. It's a hard call to make. And and so. some of my suggestions, I'm pretty sure, have been. slow down, use my remote viewing carefully because. you need to interpret it. only as far as what it says, not. implies. And and I think a lot of people take my. remote viewing and use it as it's.

implied, not as its actual limit, what it says. And and that's an aggravation for me. because it it's an irritant actually. It. kind of makes me angry. when they leap to a conclusion and come. to the conclusion it's I said a so a +. one must be true. Mhm. Yeah. I don't. know if I'm being clear. No, I I I know. I do understand what you're basically.

saying that people are making. assumptions based off the information. that you're providing to them. Have you. ever made your own assumptions off of. your own information? Or have you always. had the discipline to just see it for. what it is? I try not to do that. It's. hard not to, but I I still try really. hard not to. because like I said, I I I'm the only viewer that came out of.

the remote viewing program and went. straight into a lab. I went right into. Sarai International. and I I worked there from around 1985. until it closed in 88. When it when they let me go in ' 88, I. was hired immediately by Science. Applications International Corporation. Someone went right into that lab. I'm. the only viewer that has voluntarily. gone into all the labs. and been challenged on my viewing and. I've done my viewing under maximum.

controls. No one other person did that. The the. only other person that's ever done that. gone into the labs after they came out. of the project was a young lady named. Angela Ford. And Angela Ford, while she. was with the unit, was treated extremely. badly. Now, I have to back this up by. saying Angela Ford was a I don't know, I. think she was a GS14, maybe. She was a.

GS employee of the government. She was a. an intelligence analyst in the one of. the highest positions you can have in. the Pentagon as an analyst. and she. became a remote viewer. She does her. remote viewing with automatic writing. because of that because of the fact she. was different and a woman in the project. under Defense Intelligence Agency. She.

was called a witch. and shoved into a side room and hardly. anything ever done with her stuff. She got out of the project when it shut. down in 88, I'm sorry, 95, 1995, and. came straight into the lab. And she's done f unbelievable. stuff in the lab. because she's being honored, she's being.

respected, she's being given the same things I'm. being given, and she does extremely well. in that. So I I have to say that like. a lot of her stuff has been misused, misidentified, unused, uh ignored, you know, all these things because she. wasn't. saying things to support what they were.

looking for. Do you have contact with her? Yes. Do. you think she would be interested in. doing an interview? Sure. I believe she. would. I would love to interview her. Okay. I'll put you together with her. Uh, thank you. When I get back, I will. send her an email, talk to her on the. phone, and then give you her address and. everything when she gives me permission. to do that. Thank you. Uh, she's. she's really good. I I bring her in on.

my remote viewing training that I do at. the Monroe Institute. I bring her in for. one night to answer questions. and she has fun with those. Let me tell. you, she I'll tell you something. She. did. first like the first week in the lab, they had a uh a US customs agent.

who. took $2 million. that was supposedly earmarked for. something. He just stole it and. disappeared. So the FBI was really after this guy and. he was on a most wanted list and all. that sort of thing. But they it was dead. of winter when this happened. And so. they were absolutely positive since he. loved the Bahamas. He's in the islands.

He went down there. He probably bought a. boat. he's living in the islands. She comes up with the fact he's in, I. don't know, West. Muloon, Iowa or something. I can't remember now. It was Wyoming or. something like that. So, she says, "No, no, no, no, no. He's way out in Wyoming. or something.". Nobody believes her. Everybody, every.

psychic in the unit is talking about the. Bahamas, Biminy, Nassau, you know, all these places. because they're picking up on all this. stuff. And she's saying, "No, no, he's. up north. where all the parks are closed because. the snow falls 6 ft deep.". No, no, no, no. He hates the cold. He'd. never go there. Not with $2 million in.

his pocket. So. huge argument entail. And so Defense. Intelligence Agency. is nervous about. all the psychics saying Bahamas and. she's saying Eastbunk, Iowa or. something, Wyoming. So she gets more specific. They go back. to her and say, "Why do you say that?". Well, he's staying in a place that's.

right behind a a Native American burial. ground. It's right next to a national. park. There's like 6 ft of snow on the. ground. And he's the only guy in this. motel. Nobody believes it. But just in case, the FBI FBI sends a. warranted poster. out to all the park places in the.

extreme northwest. that's buried under snow. Park Ranger remembers having breakfast. with him. the only two people in the. entire freaking world eating breakfast. together in this drive up diner. in Wyoming or wherever it was. So he. gets the the facts on his machine. As. soon as he gets to work, he turns. around, he goes back with a state.

trooper and they arrest the guy. No way. Yeah. in Podunka, Iowa, Wyoming or. wherever the hell it was and they arrest. him in this motel behind which is an. Indian burial ground and it's adjacent. to a park. I think she was even more. specific about what kind of part. And it's like. she gets no credit at all for.

until. they're talking about it. The great job. the FBI did. on the news one night and somebody calls. in from the park service. That's not how it happened. That's not. how it happened. They sent us a a wanted. poster on him. Our guy from the park service actually.

had breakfast with him and got a state. trooper and they arrested him and turned. him over to the FBI. The FBI had no idea. he was here. And the only reason the park service. sent out the. all wanted, all points wanted bulletin. was because she said so. Wow. That all came home to roost. And so she walked around like the queen. bee for about a week. Good for her.

Yeah. Good for her. But you gota if you. talk to her, you got to talk to her. about the missing guy with the money. I. will. She just kept stating over and. over and she gets all this by automatic. writing. Wow. Absolutely. brilliant young lady. I would love to have a conversation with. her as well. You'd enjoy it.

She had a an identical twin sister and. they were both as good as one was as. good as the other. Her sister's not. dead. And you had a twin? No, she did. too. Identical twin. I didn't have an. identical twin. I had a female twin. And uh but her sister was as psychic as. she was. But her sister's dead now. And. she's retired now. But uh and and they. treated her like crap. And I mean she. was one of the top analyst man in the.

Pentagon. And she wanted to come into that unit. She I mean she volunteered to come into. that unit because she knew she had. something to offer and she did and she. still does and we still use her in the. labs. She's that she's that good. I mean. she's really a good uh good person. Well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Well, Joe, we're wrapping up the. interview and I have one more viewing.

and I. I want to say that I'm very reluctant to. ask this question. Okay, go ahead and. ask it anyway. I couldn't leave here. without answering it. Today's your 78th birthday. Yeah. in all its majesty. It it it is my. understanding that you. may have remote viewed your own death.

and that it happens at age 78. I don't know about that. 78. I did I did. have an incident when I went to Vietnam. where I I thought I saw my imminent. death and it turned out to be a huge. assumption on my part. It happened. exactly as I saw it but it was an. assumption. Okay. So,

what I think might be con misconstrued. here. is I had a um. I had a problem with uh an infection. from one of my hospital surgeries. And.

I went up to New York. I I this was when I was 72. I went up to New York cuz I got my. degree. I graduated with this big crowd. of young kids. Um. but it was right after I had a back. surgery. And uh in my spinal surgery, they had uh a lot of staples down my. back and one was inverted. It was.

backwards and they couldn't get it out. And I think somebody was back there. messing with it trying to get it out. And I said, "I hope you're wearing. gloves so you scrubbed your hands real. good." And she got them, walked out, and. never saw her again, which something. But anyway, the doctor came out with a pair of. gloves on and just took a pair of pliers. and jerked it out. So, we went ahead up to New York and I. graduated. The next morning when I woke.

up, I had a really bad. in infection. showing on the sheet in the hotel. So, my uh lovely wife drove me straight. back to the University of Virginia. Hospital. and I went in the emergency room. and they they couldn't find an open o. um. I was in the emergency room a long time,

many many many hours and I was getting. weaker and weaker. My body was just. racked with this infection. turned out it was a uh. stephaculus. orius or something like that. Anyway, it was just it was a terrible. infection and I was running out of. energy. So they wanted me to do an MRI. and uh well just before the MRI I was.

getting weaker and weaker and I said uh. in my mind I felt like I was standing on. a pad of tiles and they were falling. away one at a time and I viewed that as. my energy going out. And I got to a. point where only my feet. were standing on tiles. And I came to the conclusion that.

it would just be so easy to step across. and not be there anymore. And so I was contemplating this cuz I. was I was done. And this I felt this hand grab my arm. It was my wife. And she whispered at me. She said, "Don't you dare leave me." And I went, [Laughter].

"So I started stealing energy from as. many places and people as I could.". So they put me in an MRI and halfway. through the MRI, I started. hallucinating. So I said, "Got to get me. out of here." And the doctor chided me. He said, "I thought you were a tough old. army guy that you could deal with an. MRI." And I said, "I can normally, but. I'm hallucinating, so I know my. temperature is about as high as it's. going to go.".

And he said, "Nevertheless, you should. have finished your MRI.". So when I came out of the MRI, the nurse came over and. rubbed one of those temperature things. on my head. and she turned to the doc. She said, "He's not wrong. It's 107.". They found an O room im immediately and. reopened everything that they had done. on my spine and washed it all out with.

antibiotics and. pumped antibiotics into me for months. and finally killed all that stuff. That's probably the closest I've come. um Vietnam. When I got off the plane, when I arrived in Vietnam. and I stepped off the C130, you know, I. come off that back ramp. When my foot. hit the ground, I saw myself.

dying in a flash of white light. I knew that's it. That's where I'm going. to go. an itinerate. rocket attack or a mortar, big heavy. mortar or maybe a artillery round or. something was going to get me. And I. turned around and I told the guy behind. me and they just opened up a space. guy. Nobody wanted to be close to me. after I told him that. So. I go through a whole time in Vietnam and.

nothing happened. Well, I had a few close ones, but you. know, rattled me a little bit, but I. didn't die of a turn around. So, [Music]. I get ready to leave Vietnam. and I had also had a vision. that I'd be leaving on a bright yellow. plane called the Canary plane or. something. I said, "That's not.

possible.". So, I get to the airport and I'm leaving. Vietnam and it says, "Uh, you're flying on one of those new. brainoff planes. They, you know, they're. pastel colors and yours is a Canary. yellow. It's called uh Big Bird or something.". So, I flew out on a canary yellow plane. So, that came true, too. But the explosion didn't. I couldn't.

figure that out till I had my near-death. experience in Austria when I was. enveloped in the white light. I went, "Here it is. I'm in it.". I was like, "Yeah, I saw that coming in. Vietnam. I misinterpreted it." Okay. Okay. Um, the only thing I might have said. that would have brought that out of. someone.

would be at some of my talks when people. say, "Well, how long do you plan on doing. this or how long do you plan on being. here or whatever?" That sort of thing. Sometimes my comment is, "Who knows? I. could go going home. I could get nailed by somebody going. home. or I could just drop dead right in front. of you.

And they all get a laugh out of that, but they're not sure if I'm telling the. truth or not. And it doesn't matter. None of that matters. The the fact of the matter is I've come. so close to death so many times. that I've reached a point where my. understanding is I'm still here simply. because I'm not through doing whatever. I'm doing. So that may be interpreted as when I'm.

saying I'm quitting the remote viewing. work. as well now he's done. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying I'm not doing remote. viewing anymore. I'll I'll teach remote viewing at the. Monro Institute as long as they'll have. me or I give talks there anytime they. want them or I do webinars for them. Anything that supports that place I'll. do until they're throwing dirt on my.

face in the ground because that's how I. feel about it. And a lot of that may be misinterpreted. by some who think, "Oh my god, he's. going to die on us.". No, usually what I tell them is if I. drop dead in the next 2 minutes, it's. not important. Mhm. What's important is. that I that happens while I'm doing. something I like to do, then it's okay. If I was doing something I hated with a.

passion and it happened, oh god, what a. waste that would have been. you know, that kind of thing. I I I. don't worry about that stuff anymore. When you're 78 and don't give a. it's okay. I'm I just want to enjoy what I do. Yep. I just uh. somebody had told me that and um we had. rescheduled.

and uh when I found out that the. rescheduled date was on your 78th. birthday, you thought I was like, whoa, whoa. Yeah. Wo. What if he like just. goes to sleep in the chair? Is this a. self-fulfilling prophecy? But uh well, that would be something cool to catch, wouldn't it? I would rather that not. happen, Joe. But um. do you do you fear death at all? No, I. have absolutely no fear of death. Never.

have actually uh since my near-death. experience. What do you think happens? What I what I think happens uh it's like. I have no absolute belief in heaven or. hell. I think we just progress into a new form. of what we are. And I think the real surprise. heaven, what heaven and hell is.

I've given a lot of thought to this. Uh. if when you're dead, you find out that all the people you. lived and interacted with are all part. of you. The reason that would be a good thing is. because if we if we as entities. learn by experience,

there's no way knowing if the experience. is valid or not if all we're getting is. our perception of it. The only way you can know if experience. was valid. and had something beneficial generated. by it would be if we were not only the. person. in the experience but all persons in the. experience. In other words, we would. have to have every perspective of all. the people we care about that were part.

of in that experience. So in death, I would welcome the fact of. knowing that all the people I was. heavily engaged with my entire life were. all were all just extensions of me. That's the only way of getting every. perspective. of every action you've ever taken would. be to have the perceptions of all those. you care most for or you care about or.

you're part of or your family with or. you worked with or all of that. And I. think that's true. I think that's what. we find out. That's the big surprise at. death. Everything we experienced. has been perceived and we get all of. those ex perceived exper experiences. from everybody that we've ever been part. of. So in a holistic sense, we're not.

just us or all the people we've lived. lived with and cared about. So, I cannot imagine a worse hell than. to treat people like your whole. life and to find out all the damage you. did. and not be able to rectify that. to feel their pain.

Everything, all the pain and all the bad. experience and all the the frustration. and upset that you've given, the. sickness that you've delivered to them. and not be able to fix it and know that. it was just the major part of you. I. think that's hell on whatever. and and not so much. The other I think heaven is knowing that.

you did everything you possibly could to. to soften the impact of life on the. people you care about, the people that are important to you in. your entire lifetime. So people have a way of making up for. their failures. by realizing that and understanding that.

it's not just them. It's everybody. they're in contact with. When they when. they do something to themselves to. denigrate themselves, they're doing it to all the people who. care about them. I think they're all part of the same. You're all part of the same person, the. same entity, one ecosystem. Yeah. It's a. learning system. And I think it's the only way to really. learn is to know all the perceptions.

that. people who cared about you had when you. did A or B or C. The only way to learn. from it is to know what was wrong about. it, what was right about it. how it. affected people that were observing it. I I think that's true learning. and that may that may be a design. I don't think it's a flaw. I think it's. a design.

in the reality of which we all part of. something larger. And you can call it God or whatever you. want, but it's something much larger. And it and it deals with. all possibilities. I mean, there's lots. of people. that exist. I say people, there's lots. of entities that exist across the. cosmos. What if all that's true?

We think very little of ourselves if we. act the way we are. versus being better at it or greater at. it or. uh I don't know, pay attention. That's some deep thought. That's the. first time I've ever heard that and that. makes a hell of a lot of sense. Well, it makes sense to me. Thank you.

Anyway, you're welcome. I mean, just that uh. that segment alone is motivation for. people to do the right thing. One would hope so. There are still those. that think that's better. More power is better. And why do I want. to get involved in that foolishness? Well, they'll find out.

I think that's hell. hell to pay. That's what it is later. Wow. Well, Joe, I just want to say thank you. Oh, you're. welcome. Thank you for coming on and. sharing everything that you've shared. And um. is the Monroe Institute? Oh, it's break. Is that open enrollment? Can anybody. sign up? Oh, anybody can sign up. You.

can come anytime you want. Take a. gateway. I hope you're ready. There's. going to be a lot of gateway and I I. won't even acknowledge your presence. when I see you. I'll just go, "Who the. hell are you? Don't I know you're from. somewhere?". You'll have a great time. I guarantee. it. I would love to come. And you'll. learn a lot about yourself. I would love. that, too. And other people that you. never thought you would get along with. Well, I hope to see you there. Okay.

Thank you. You will. I'll be around. Perfect. But um I will uh link the. Monroe Institute in the description. And. um Great. And uh once again, Joe, it's. just it was it I don't say this lightly. Um, it's an honor to have you here and. to get to know you and to hear about. your experiences as you've Yeah. experienced life and and um just Thank. you. You're welcome. It was and and and.

your lovely wife, too. It was Oh, yeah. It was amazing to me. Don't leave her. out. I wouldn't be in this if I I'd be. long gone, I think, actually. Be hard to deal with life without her. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'd volunteer for that one-way. mission. You know, I I once asked her if. I could write a letter to NASA and. volunteer for the Mars mission.

No, listen. I have enough I have enough. artificial body now that I'd probably. survive on Mars. She'll kill me for saying that, but. Well, thank you. Yeah. You're welcome. All right. Take care. You too. [Music]. [Applause].

Here's the situation. You've got China, Russia, Ukraine, the border. The banks. seem to be collapsing. Plus, the Chinese. just negotiated with Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Brazil to drop the US dollar. And. most Americans, including myself, feel. that we're in a recession right now. But. despite all the evidence, I can't tell. you what's going to happen for sure. Nobody can. Yet, when it comes to your. money, you should understand what's at. stake. That's why I partnered with Gold.

Co to possibly help at times like this. Go to shanlikesold.com. or call 855936. gold to get your free gold and silver. kit. The kit shows you how to defend. your money with precious metals and how. listeners of the show could get up to. $10,000 in bonus silver. Go to. shanlikesgold.com. or call 855936. gold to get your free gold and silver. kit. I can't predict the future, but I. can certainly prepare for it. So go to.

shaunlikesold.com. or call 855936. gold now. Performance may vary. Consult. with your tax attorney or financial. professional before making an investment. decision. Hey everybody, I'm Shawn Ryan. Click here to subscribe to the Sha Ryan. Show YouTube channel for the hottest and. most compelling interviews that you will. not see anywhere else. I've also made a. playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find. You. can find that right here.