Jay Cal - SAS Operator Charged with Murder | SRS #214

[Music]. Jay Cal, welcome to the show. Thank you, Sean. Absolute pleasure to be here. Honestly, um before you say anything. else, it's humbling. Truly humbling. Um. I know you don't leave, you know, the. United States to do these kind of. things. So, the luxury to be here and. your presence doing this sort of stuff. is [ __ ] it's a big deal to me and I'm. super grateful for it. For all the guys, the team, um, your time. Yeah, it it.

means a great deal to me. It's kind of. surreal as well, you know. Well, I only. leave the country for stuff that I feel. is extremely important. And u, so we got. connected through my friend, our mutual. friend DJ Shipley. He's a good friend of. mine. And uh, it was interesting. He. called me right before a flight. Yeah. I. was almost late to the flight cuz I was. talking to him about you and he was. telling me about the situation that. you're going through in the UK. Yeah. And the investigation and how it is, for.

lack of a better term, ruining your life. and your teammates's life and. demoralizing. current and future SAS operators. And um. you know what was interesting? I talked. to DJ. I probably talked to him for. about 20 minutes about this. Yep. And I. was very hesitant uh to do it. And then. I get on the flight and I'm sitting next. to this is this is 5 minutes after my. conversation with DJ. Yeah. I get on the.

flight and I'm sitting next to another. mutual friend of ours, Christian Craig. Head. Yeah. Who DJ had told me he's. really good friends with Christian. You. know Christian, you know he's a good. dude. So sitting next to him on the. flight 5 minutes after I just had the. conversation with DJ. So I asked. Christian, I said, "Hey, do you know. this guy?" And he said, "Oh man, he's. very good friend of mine and uh told me. a little more in a little more detail. about what you were going through cuz we.

had 2 or 3 hours on the flight. I was. going to Austin. and right before we took off, as I'm. talking to Christian about you, my. producer Jeremy texts me and sends me. your Instagram profile." Yeah. Yeah. And. he says, "Hey, I think we should look. into this guy. Looks really. interesting." And so it was three. things. Bam, bam, bam. And I'm big on. signals from God. And to me, I was.

hesitant when I talked to DJ. Then. Christian was on the flight. Then Jeremy. texted me. This is all within 15 minutes. all about you. And so I texted Jeremy. and I said, "Hey, we we I have to do it. I feel like I feel like this is. something that that is beyond me that I. need to do. So, it's an honor to be. here. DJ had amazing things to say about. you. Christian had amazing things to say. about you. And so, it is it's truly an. honor to have you here. And, uh, I'm.

glad we could make this work. And we did. this, we're doing this in Dubai, uh, because because of what you're going. through in the UK, I thought it would be. better to do it outside of the UK. And. uh so here we are in Dubai. Yeah. Back. in the Middle East. Back in the Middle. East. Yeah. Yeah. I was quite res, you. know, I was like, do I want to go back. to back to the Middle East so soon? I. was like, you know, initially, no. But then when this. situation happened, it's like I I don't. believe in coincidence like you. And I.

think I I don't like the word universe. I think it gets banded around quite. often, but like there are times in life. when I look at things and I'm like there. there's there's too many of these things. to have lined up in certain time frames. or in certain situations for it to be. there has to be something involved in. that there there has to be like because. it doesn't go that way and then all of a. sudden it goes completely the opposite. side. So yeah, it's. it's quite like I said before, it's. quite a surreal moment to be here sat. with you because I've been watching you. for years even when I was still serving.

and a lot of you know. you know deeply personal things that. good friends of mine have come on the. show and talked about you know I've seen. it I've seen it from both sides. I've. seen how they come across on on on this. but I've also seen it sat having a beer. and had those conversations or on the. range having those conversations. So for. me to take my turn and to be sat here is. it's really important to me. Um and it's. something that I don't take lightly. You. know, this is a big big deal for me. You.

know, I've been quite nervous, I think, not because of what I'm going to say, but just because it's like I just want. to do do it right, you know. So, yeah, humbling, slightly nerve-wracking, but now I'm sat. here, it doesn't feel like that. Now, now it just feels like two team guys. having a conversation, right? You're. just a dude from the squadron. So, you. know that that's cool and you've made me. feel nothing but welcome. And from the. minute Jeremy reached out, I was like, "Yes, this is a good thing to do. I. don't do podcasts. I've never done a. podcast. It's the first time anyone's.

seen my face." Um, and I'm completely. comfortable with it because I trust you. cuz I know that you're trying to do good. things. And the fact that you have. traveled halfway across the world and. taken the time to do this makes me feel. that the the conversation and the topic. I'm going to have is is worth having and. it makes me feel that it's in safe hands. and you know I've got complete trust. with you. So again, I'll say it I'll say. it now and I'll say it again. I'm. thankful and I'm grateful and I just.

want to make sure that we take this. opportunity to to voice some things. because there's a lot of people out. there that don't get that opportunity. They don't have a platform. They don't. have the luxury of sitting in this. position in this chair. So, what I say, I want to make sure I get it right. Um, and we we we try and change a couple of. things because there's some stuff going. on that I don't think's right. Well, that's what we do. And so, in this. interview, my goals are one to tell your. life story. Yes, sir. And on top of. that, UK is going through a lot right.

now. Yeah. We see it all over the news. I have friends over there. our mutual. friends have told me about what's going. on, especially within the unit, the. investigations that are going on. And so. when we get through your life story, I. want to expose as much as possible about. what's happening over there, why it's. happening, who's doing it, and all that. stuff. So, so just sit back, relax. I. get nervous for all of these things, too. So, and again, I think I mean we.

talked about it before, but it's like. people are very quick to hold soldiers. and operators to account and we get. based on judgment this and judgment that. or, you know, split-second decisions, but we're always we're always looked at. in a negative light and and nobody. nobody gets to hold other people account. like the people that are making these. choices and these decisions and pushing. these things through and, you know, causing the trauma and the the the pain. to all of us as individuals and our. families. Nobody holds them to account and that's. not right, you know. If if you want they.

want transparency, let's have. transparency, you know. So, I feel like. this is a good thing to do. You're doing. a good thing for yourself and for all of. your comrades and everybody that's. serving over in UK right now. And you. know, just before the interview, I had. mentioned a quote. You perfected the. quote, but it's something goes. something. You know, evil will prevail. when good men do nothing. Absolutely. And you're doing something. I'm trying. I'm trying. And that means something. So. everybody starts off with an. introduction.

So here we go. Jay Cal, a decorated. Royal Marine and Special Forces veteran. with nearly 18 years of service, 11. combat deployments in the Queen's. commendation for valuable service. Mastering roles is jump master, tandem. master, and lead jumper with three. operational jumps. Earned your place in. SAS in 2012. You deployed to hotspots like. Afghanistan, Iraq, North Africa, where. you participated in numerous major. offensives and covert actions, including.

work alongside Delta Force. You're also. the only SAS operator to ever become a. green team instructor over at Dev Group. Now, you are the lead instructor for. GBRS Group to train the next generation. of operators. And so before we get into. your life story, if you could give me just a brief. snapshot of what these investigations. are about. 2022, my last operational deployment,

uh, we deployed on the ground. I was an. assault team leader with my guys, a fire. team essentially. Um, we've been. targeting. known jihadis that had been responsible. for multiple assassinations. they were. top of the partner forces list in terms. of people that they wanted to detain. So. we launched a detention operation on. those. I was ordered to go and do that. detention operation. Um we planned it. meticulously. Um we executed it. professionally. Uh and during that that. operation once we got off the vehicles.

we were engaged. Um from multiple firing. points in the middle in the middle of. enemy territory. I was with my. teammates. So I made the decision to. return fire um to protect my life and. the life of my teammates. Um we were. effective. We neutralized two enemy. fighters. Um and then subsequently after. that they launched an investigation. accusing me of murder. Um which is a. very damaging thing. Murder. Murder. Murder. It wasn't anything. It was just. straight up murder.

You know, I've seen this before with the. Eddie Gallagher case. Yeah. Yeah. I. spoke to Eddie about this a lot. He's. helped me a lot through this and you. know Eddie's a good dude. Um and he's. coached me a little bit in terms of you. know it's rough. It's rough. You feel. betrayed. You feel let down. You know. and I I'll say it before I'll say it. again. Sean, there isn't a thing that. happened that night that I wouldn't do. again. And I can look you in the eye and. tell you that I didn't I did what I was. supposed to do that night in the most. professional manner that I could.

culminate in years of experience, years of judgment, multiple deployments. I know what it's like to be in dangerous. situations. And that was a hyper. dangerous situation. And we dealt with. it. My teammates dealt with it in the. most effective professional manner. I. was so proud of them. Those young guys. next to me, some of them never been in a. gunfight before. and they did what they. had to do and they did it with. exceptional professionalism. And then to. get back off the ground and be treated. the way that we did is just. heartbreaking. There's no other word to.

say. It's heartbreaking, man. You know, yeah, it's a difficult situation. And. you got a you got a write up. accommodation for that exact operation. that was revoked. Yeah. For that whole. deployment. Yeah. My my s major and my. troop art major told me that I'd been. given a citation for it. Never came. they pulled it for whatever reason. Maybe it's cuz I left the army. Maybe. it's cuz I had an Instagram account. Who. knows? But whatever it is, you know, that kind of hurt. I don't care about. medals. I don't even wear my medals. I. don't even know where my medals are, Sean. Um I'll never put that belt and.

bury on. until this has been effectively. resolved. I'm still extremely proud of. who I am and what I've done. And I love. my regiment to death. That's why I'm. here because there's things that need to. change. But, you know, on that night, I. couldn't be prouder. I couldn't be. prouder of the guys around me. Like it. was it was well. well within rules of engagement, well. within what had to be done. And quite. frankly, anyone that saw the drone. footage and the 50 other people on the.

ground that all testified to say exactly. what I saw and felt all all feel the. same way. You know, there it's it's as. black and white as it gets. Well, you. should be proud. You should be proud of. what you did and you should be proud of. what you're doing right now because I. know this takes a lot of courage. especially with everything that you're. going through. So, but before we get. into the life story, everybody gets a. gift. There we go. Thank you, Sean. Vigilance lead gummy. bears made in the USA. Yeah. Legal in.

all 50 states and they're legal in the. UK. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm. Thank you. You're welcome. Awesome. I've. got something for you as well. We can. talk about it later, but it's a everyday. patriot hat because I believe you are a. patriot and I believe you stand for the. same values that I do. Um, so a small. token of my appreciation and these won't. get put on the shelf. They will get. enjoyed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me and. my daughter will uh Yeah, we'll get into. these for sure. Thank you, Sean. What.

does this What does this mean? So, it's. Everyday Patriot. So, I've had a bit of. a hiatus in the last 18 months or, you. know, since I've not been allowed to go. to the United States. Uh, and in that. time I've started a company. It's about. patriotism. To me, patriotism is a super. important. subject. Something I feel very, very. deeply about. And I think that the small. things that we can do to represent who. we are, the culture that we come from, our belief system, our values, I think. needs to be done. I think there's too.

much, especially it feels like in in the. UK, but I've traveled all across to. Scandinavia, to the United States. It. feels like the word patriot has been. kidnapped, held hostage by either the. far right or the far left. Being a. patriot is not about racism. It's not. about nationalism or fascism or creating. a common common enemy. Those are all the. things that we fought against. The I. don't stand for any of that stuff. It's. little things with patriotism. We're. very good in the UK. if it's like a. football tournament, the World Cup,

European Championships, or something. happens with the royal family, everyone. puts a flag up and everyone's proud to. be, you know, proud to be British, but. then the minute that stops, it goes away. and it all comes quiet and then all you. can hear is the far right or the far. left and all they want to do is make. noise. They're not doing it. I'm not. having it. Like, you don't have to be in. the army for 20 years or an Olympic. athlete to be a patriot. It's for the. builders. It's for the people that work. in coffee shops, the mothers, the. children, the women, all of us. We're. all patriots. If you love your country, you should never ever be scared to be.

proud of where you're from. And I don't. care if you're from Afghanistan, Argentina, Iraq, Syria. If you love your country. and have good values, I'm all for it. This is not about creating division. This is not about segregation. It's. about being proud of who you are, where. you come from, what you stand for. Um, and I think people are scared to do it. I think they're only scared because. people keep telling them that every time. they put a flag up or every time they. are proud of where they come from, people want to jump on it and say it's. this or that and they want to weaponize.

it and it's it's it's [ __ ] Yeah. And I'm not [ __ ] having it. I don't. think it's right. You know, I've served. my country. I was willing to die for my. country. I've got 14 poppies on one arm. from one deployment. Just one. deployment. I know what it's like to pay. the sacrifice. I've seen it. I've. watched it. I've carried those caskets. I've carried those letters. I've seen. it. And I'm very proud of my country. very very proud and I'm not going to be. told or made to feel ashamed by anybody. that we don't come from a good place and.

try and do good things. Now that's not. to say that our history is perfect. No. countries is. That's not to say that we. don't make mistakes. We all make. mistakes. We're not perfect. Far from. it. I acknowledge that. But it's still. resonates with me to be proud of my. country and I am deeply proud of it. So. Everyday Patriots kind of a nod to that. You know, it's it's not merchandise. It's something that I stand by. It's not. just a clothing brand. When it says. Everyday Patriot, I mean it. And that. everyday bit of it is.

we like a grand gesture, a football. tournament, a coronation, you know, wherever it might be. But it's the. everyday small things that we can all do. wherever you're from that really make. the difference. Because if we don't pay. into that culture and we don't remember. who we are, then it's not going to be. long. Couple of generations, it's gone. thousands of years of history and. pride and sacrifice and service and you. know all the stuff that we've done as. nations regardless of what flag that is. doesn't matter what color is but every. country's got their history and if we.

start to whitewash that history or. change the narrative or you know make it. more palatable for certain demographics. then all we do is we lose our identity. and the minute you lose your identity. you lose your purpose and before you. know it we're in a bad bad spot. So, in. a nutshell, long story long, that's kind. of what what I believe about patriotism. So, yeah. No, it's going well. And, you. know, Sean, what do I know about making. baseball caps and black t-shirts? Not a.

great deal, but it's been an adventure. for me. Yeah, I've enjoyed the process. I've got good people around me, a great. team. Couldn't do it myself. Um, I might. have had the idea, but the execution is. definitely a team effort, and it seems. to seems to land with people. You know, most people when I explain it to people, they're like, "Yeah, I get that. Yeah, I. like that." You know, and it's all. different demographics. Doesn't matter. where you come from. I'm selling, you. know, t-shirts to people all over the world. The United States, South Korea, all over. Europe, Australia. Like, it resonates.

around the thing. And I think it's a. good thing. I think it's positive. You. know, I'm not money oriented. I'm not. trying to make a million bucks out of. selling baseball caps. I just want to. put something out there that people can. put on, throw it on, be proud of, be. proud of it, you know? Good for you. That's what I'm trying. I love that. You. do? Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. It's It's a. fun project, you know. It's keeps keeps. me busy. How did you How did you get. connected with DJ? So, around 2020, I was given, in my opinion, the best job.

in the British Army. I was given the job. of being the lead instructor, chief. instructor of the CQB. I'd never been an instructor before in. that that situation. And I've been a. J-TAC instructor before and I know how. to teach and connect with people and I. love that human connection. Um, but when. they offered me that, to me that's the. pinnacle, teaching regiment guys or. helping regiment guys improve their. shooting, making sure the doctrine in. the CQB is good, making sure that we're. not drifting off course, making sure. that we're not, you know, adopting fads.

from YouTube and the internet and making. sure that we're maintaining. um the standard that's been set by the. guys that went before us and the hard. lessons learned through combat. I mean, we lost a lot of guys, you know, there's. that that Gwatt generation. learned a lot of [ __ ] hard lessons. And I think it's only right if you. become an instructor in one of those. roles that you're the custodian of that. information. So, I took that job. extremely seriously. But like I said. before, I'd never been you don't go to. CQB instructor school. They just picked.

me out of the squadron because I, you. know, fairly high standard of personal. standard and was apparently quite. competent at it and could engage with. people and had enough experience to be. able to give that information to people. So I was kind of looking around on like. where else do you find information open. source. So I was looking at YouTube. I. was watching all kinds of stuff trying. to find drills, equipment, just little, you know, them 1% them 1%s that you can. try and make incremental improvement. And I like kit, dude. I I love my kit.

It's to me it's it's important like you. I judge a guy on how his kit is, you. know. Um so I'm trying all these. different types of belts. I'm like. buying this belt and that belt and I. tried all of them, you know, and some of. them are good, some of that. And I. stumbled across. um GBRS. It was actually DJ setting up a. weapon. And it was like, damn, that's. how I set my weapon up. And how he. explained it, I was like, "Yep, that. works. That's exactly how I would do. that." So I became interested them. Anyway, I I ordered something and I.

messed it up. I got the wrong size or. whatever. And I sent an email back. saying, "Is it possible before you ship. it to the UK? Can you just change the. size or whatever?" Cole ripped me back. straight away within minutes. So, we had. a bit of correspondence there. Um, and I. just reached out to him and I said, "Listen, mate. Like, it's so cool and. you know, it gasses me up to see guys. from the squadron that have left the. squadron that are doing something. different that aren't just going to work. in the Middle East in security or this. or that or the the usual part. And. there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not. I'm not trying to degrade that. But I.

didn't want to do that. To see other. people out there doing something. different, doing something unique." So, I just hit him up and said, "Thank And I. told him, I said, "There's guys in in. our squadron that are running your. equipment. both domestically and overseas." And. he's, you know, he's told me a bunch of. times, but that's the why. That's why. they do that. That's why we do what we. do. It's cuz we want to try and help. guys that still in a fight. We're not in. a fight anymore. I'm not in a fight. Probably never been in a gunfight ever. again in my life. But it doesn't mean. I'm going to turn my back on it. I still. want to give back. So that's kind of. where they were at. Uh, and I just.

recognized it and I acknowledged it. I. sent them a squadron plaque. I didn't. put a name on it or anything. Um, and we. just carried on talking. Then I. deployed, blahy blahy blah. A couple of. years later, um, after my last. deployment, I was kind of in this weird. situation, weird headsp space. I don't. really know what I wanted to do. I. didn't really feel like I wanted to. stay. I didn't really know if I was. going to leave. Like, I don't have many transferable. skills. Sean, people talk about all. this, you know, oh yeah, it sets you up. for this and that. It's like there's not.

many pe there's not many jobs in in. Civilian Street that require a good. breacher or a good lead jumper or. somebody that can do a good bill drill. Do you understand what I mean? Like I. know exactly what you mean. So I felt. reinvent reinvent the wheel, you know? But it was like the only thing I've got. is the shirt on my back and the skill in. my hands. That's all I've got and that's. all I've ever had. you know, I don't. come from a, you know, I don't come from. a lot and I've worked very hard to build. my skill set and, you know, try and. improve my own personal ability.

and it felt like a good idea or the only. idea for for you know, for one of a. better word to try and use those skills. in the civilian market or in this, you. know, to try and train people. Basically, that's what I wanted to do. But I didn't really know how to go about. it. It's very confusing period for me. And I was like, "Yeah, head was all over. the place." And then through a mutual. friend, um, Chris Craighead, the boys, DJ and Cole, um, were in Heraford. visiting one of their distributors. And they'd already met a bunch of times.

anyway, so they were already familiar. with each other. And at first I was. like, I don't want to just go and meet. these guys and turn up like some sort of. fanboy and be like, "Hi, thanks for the. the t-shirt." So I was like, at first I. said, "No." And then he was like, "Come. on, just come and meet them." And I. treat them and that exactly how I'm. treating this. Just meeting two guys in. the squadron. And as soon as we sat down. in Heraford, we went for a a. cheeseburger or whatever it was. Um me, Christian, DJ Cole, uh and a guy called. Baz, we sat down and straight away we we.

connected. It was just like that. It was. like we were already on that sort of. that wavelength, so to speak. And me and. DJ got into it about CQB. Me and Cole. were talking about this and we're. talking about that. And you know, I was. just it just felt good. And we sort of. wandered around the town for a bit, had. a coffee, and uh I think it was DJ. actually said to me, "So, what's your. plans now?" And I was like, "Well, I'm at a bit of a crossroads. I've. invested everything. This is all I've. got. I don't have anything else. Like, this is it." But I'm at a point now.

where I'm having to walk away from it. or, you know, considering walking away. from it. Well, what are you going to do? And I was like, "I don't know. I really. don't know. I want to teach people. I. want to continue instruction. I want to. continue passing on the knowledge, the. hard fought lessons that I've had. personally and watched other people do. So, he was like, "Well, if you ever want. to come over to Virginia Beach and hang. out with us, then, you know, here's my. number. Let's make it happen." And I. kind of sat on it for a little while. You know, this, you know, I didn't have. an Instagram account. I didn't have a. social presence. Like, all that was a.

big no no to me. So, this is a this is a. massive departure from from my. normality. You know, I'd lived in. Heraford for 12 years. Same house. I. don't know anything other than that. the. squadron, the life. So to to break from. that needs to be something pretty solid. I've got courage and I'm, you know, I. like to think I'm pretty bold when it. comes to making decisions, but this was. a different ball game. This was not like. an operational thing. This wasn't like a. a tactical problem that needed to be. solved. I don't know the solution for. this. It's not like problem solution.

It's like this is a departure from my. normality. But I did feel a level of. connection and trust straight away. So, fast forward a few months, I like. hit him up. I was like, "Okay, DJ. Um, I. feel like coming over to Virginia Beach. Is that still cool?" He's like, "Absolutely." He's like, "Whenever you. want. Here's some dates. Come over." So, I booked a plane ticket, booked a hotel, hire a car, turned up in. Virginia Beach with some clothes and a.

set of ear defenders and a range belt. basically. And um. got to the hotel late in the evening, messaged DJ. He was cool. would do you. want to do fitness in the morning? I was. like, "Yes, sir." He goes, "Cool. I'm in. from 5:00. We'll train at 7:00." I was. like, "Cool." Turned up at half 5, pitch. black, Virginia Beach. You know, I'm a long way from home at. this point. See DJ comes walking down. the stairs, gives me a big hug. He's. like, "Welcome to the building. Show's. been around. We sit upstairs. We have. coffee. We go work out for a little.

bit." And uh yeah, they were like, "Let's go to the range." And I think. like as far as an interview goes, I. think it was done at the, you know, 7 m. point on a flat range. I think that was. pretty much, you know, it's easy to to. talk the talk, but you need to be able. to walk the walk. And as soon as I could. see that I could, you know, shoot to a. fairly high a standard. They this this. could be a thing for you. And they. offered me um. they offered me everything that I could. ever ask for. Basically, it was the. perfect transition. you know,

still shoot guns, still teach, still. mess with parachuting, still be around. team guys. Like when I walk in that. building, it feels no different, you. know, from walking into the the the. ready room. It's the same conversations, the same [ __ ] jokes, the same [ __ ]. talking, the same, you know, the same. feeling, you know, camaraderie. Camaraderie. That was my biggest fear. when I left the military. It's like when. you leave the military, you don't just. leave the the job and the role. You. leave your physical and emotional. infrastructure. Physical infrastructure.

being like you need a dentist. appointment, you go and see the dentist. You need to go and see the doctor. You. go to the doctor. The gym's over there. I need a new jacket. Stores is over. there. All that goes away when you leave. the military. And all of a sudden, you're like, [ __ ] Like, how do I get a. [ __ ] doctor's appointment? Like all. like normal problems that normal people. deal with. I've never had to do any of. it. So I'm like what 35 36 at the time. and I feel like a I feel like a teenager. again trying to work out how to do basic. stuff you know so you let alone making a. living let alone trying to yeah let.

alone make a living and you know provide. a future for you know a young daughter. you know I want to you know I want to. give her more than I got you know so. it's a lot of pressure it's a lot of. stress you lo you lose the um. when you walk out of that building you. don't just lose the job. You lose your. emotional. infrastructure. My teammates like that. train moves so [ __ ] fast, dude. You. know what it's like? Like you're out the. WhatsApp group. You're out there. You.

know this. There's no information coming. on. No one's telling me where I have to. be or what I have to do or what's coming. on next. I'm on my own now. And uh yeah, it's scary as [ __ ] It's it's it's the. most scariest thing I've ever done. And. DJ said it to me. He goes, "Transitioning out of the military is. the hardest thing you'll ever And I was. like, "Nah, it's all right. I've dealt. with dealt with way worse than that.". Legit, like, "No [ __ ] It's the hardest. [ __ ] thing I've ever done, like. emotionally." Um,

so when they came along, it was kind of. the perfect thing, right? It was like. all of the stuff that I'd been worried. about, losing my purpose and my. identity, which I think is the biggest. problem for veterans, um, had gone away. It was all still there. It was it was. just the perfect the perfect job. I felt. like I was valued. I felt like I could. give something back to our community. Um, I'm around equipment. I'm around. guns. More guns I've ever seen in my. life. Better kit than I've ever seen in my. life. You know, I've got enough money to.

keep a roof over my head. Like, I'm. landed and I'm blessed. You know, I feel. I felt so grateful and so blessed to be. in that position. And people go, "Are. you're lucky you got a job with GBRS?". And I'll say, "Yes and no." It it offends me when. people say you're lucky. It's It's not. luck. It's the [ __ ] years of hard. work I put on on a flat flat range or in. the CQB house or, you know, whatever it. might be perfecting my craft. Like, you. can ask anybody about me. They might say. a whole bunch of stuff, but one thing.

they won't say is that I didn't pay into. the to the to the job. That that that. skill set, those hard skills were the. most important thing in my life for the. best part of a decade. and I worked. [ __ ] hard to to get as good as I. could. So to have somebody recognize. that and go, "Yeah, that's not luck.". Like, and that's not to sound arrogant, but it's like, you ask Christian, we spent days, weeks, months of our lives in the freezing cold. rain, shitty ranges, just banging away,

trying to get better at our job, you. know, just perfecting the basics, the. skills, the fundamental aspects of. marksmanship. and then teaching each other, showing. each showing new tricks or not tricks. but you know like you know I've seen. this what do you think about that you. know just cross cross referencing. information and just trying to just try. and improve ourselves you know I wanted. to be the best version the best operator. that I could be um and I spent years. trying to do that and then somebody. recognized it and was like this is the. spot for you so I felt very very you. know blessed but it's not luxur does it.

kind of winds me up when people are like. oh yeah it's all right for you got a job. with GBRS it's like I [ __ ] earned. that job you Son, summer's here and if you're anything. like me, you didn't spend the winter. just sitting around. You stayed sharp. and kept moving. And now it's time your. gear caught up. And that's why I want to. introduce you. to Roka. I've been looking for eyewear. that can handle any situation with. performance and style. And let me tell.

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Well, I know DJ very well and he is only. interested in working with the best the. best in the world. And uh I'm very. similar. I have I have no respect for. anybody that's not trying to be the best. the absolute best at what they do. And. so they saw something in you and um. you've surrounded yourself with some.

great people. So I really have and I'. I'd like to just take this opportunity. now to just just to say a thank you to. to Cole and to DJ for that that trust. After that first couple of days, we went. and had breakfast just before I flew. out. And they said, "Listen, we like we. think you're the guy, and this is what. we're going to do. We're going to pay. for your legal fees. We're going to. provide you with a home. We're going to. give you a job. We're going to give you. a 401k or whatever it's called, a. pension system, dental, like the whole. thing. Like the full package. You can't.

like the gold standard, as I'd like to. say. And we trust you and we believe in. you." And to have that. changed my life. It changed my life. And without that, and I've said this before, and I deeply. mean this. I'll look you in the If it. wasn't for those guys there, I either. wouldn't be here or I'd be in a ditch in. the Ukraine somewhere. That's where I'd. be because I didn't know anything else. I didn't have any other options. They. gave me a lifeline. And I'll never ever. forget that as long as I live. And I'm. deeply, deeply grateful, not only to.

them individually, but the whole GBRS. family and how they've treated me. everyone. There's too many to name, but. all of them, Davis, Manny, Jared, you. know, they've given me so much. Paty, they. welcome me into their home. Can you. imagine how that feels staying in, you. know, Paty and Paty's a [ __ ]. rockstar, man. She's one of the most. incredible, strong women, woman I've. ever met in my life. Like, she's a. [ __ ] idol to me, you know? She's a.

superstar in my eyes. and to be welcomed. into their home and sleep in his. bedroom, spare bedroom, you know, eat. dinner with their children. Same with. Renee and Cole. They did exactly the. same thing. The last few times I've been. over to the States, I've been living. with them. They've welcomed me into. their home. That that I'll never forget. that. They've shown me more They've. shown me more love and more. hospitality than people I've been in. gunfights with and known for 10, 15. years. Like, let that sink in. Great.

people. Good people. Good [ __ ]. people, man. And I'm deeply, deeply. grateful for them. And you know, when I. put this shirt on, it means the world to. me. That's my uniform. I don't have a. call sign patch anymore. I don't I gave. that up, but I didn't give up being me. So, when I do that, I represent it with. pride, you know, and when I deliver. training or whatever it might be, I do. it with. a full heart and knowing that I'm trying. to represent something good. and that.

means a lot to me, you know, and I'll. die on that hill because it's important. to me. So, yeah, and I digress slightly, but I just want to get that out there. and say a massive thank you. Um, and if. they, you know, if they watch this and. see it, then they know it already, but. I'm sure they'll I want everyone else to. know that. Thank you. Let's move into your life story. Yeah. Here we go. You ready? Yes, sir. Where'd. you grow up? So, I was born I was born. in Oxford. Um,

my mom was quite young when I was born. So, when my mom and dad met, my dad uh. was How young? Just over 16. 16 and 9. months. 16 years old. Yeah. 16 and 9. months when I was born. So, she was a. she was a child herself. And that's not without its um. difficulties. My mom's a [ __ ]. rockstar, dude. Like, she didn't have. she come from a she had five sisters. um. there wasn't really a a strong sort of. father role model in that in that in.

that situation. So they grew up it was. hard for those girls, you know, they. didn't have much. They had nothing. They. didn't have much. They had nothing. Um. and she was super young. Super young. When I was born, they met they actually, it's quite a nice story. Um my dad and. that side of my family, they were. publicans. So they own pubs and. restaurants and all that type of stuff. in in in in my hometown. And uh she just. asked for a job one day, you know, in. the kitchen washing up dishes and that.

sort of thing. They kind of met and one. thing led to another and I was born. They weren't together. So I've never I. don't come from a typical or what we. call normal family background. My dad. and my mom were never a thing. So I. don't know what that looks like. Um, but. yeah, she she is an incredible. incredible woman. Super young. They were. never together. They were they were. never in a sort of relationship in a in. a structured relationship. I mean, they. were in a relationship, but by the time. I was born, they'd kind of drifted away.

and all the rest of it, but, you know, it Yeah. So, I I don't know what, you. know, I didn't grow up in a situation. where it was like. mom, dad, dog, all that type of stuff. That that that's not me, dude. I I. didn't come from that. Um, my mom. brought me up. She raised me. Um, I. remember very early on. she wanted to become a carpenter of all. things. So, she did. She went and got. her degree. Obviously, she missed out on. all the school and education because she. was being a mom. Um, but then she. started to do like part-time bits and. pieces and she started to learn her.

trade. She's an incredible incredible. carpenter. Um, then she started building. boats. Um, she's a bit of a my mom's a. bit of a hippie, bit of a free spirit, right? So, you know, my early childhood. up in Oxford was, you know, up until. about four, five, six was fairly. regular. I wouldn't say it was. traditional or, you know, conventional, but it was stable. It was safe. You. know, I had good people around me for. the most part. And yeah, it was.

it was a nice place to grow up for the. most part. How was your relationship with your. father? My relationship with my father is. probably one of the most important. things in my life to date. I would not. be here if it wasn't for him. I lost. him. He died. Um. yeah, he he had a he had a difficult. relationship with alcohol. Uh and. ultimately that that kind of um that. killed him. That's what it did. It. killed him. Um to hear that. No, me too,

man. Thank you. I appreciate I kind of. kind of get my head around it. What 20. years later? Kind of. 25 years later. Um, but he was a kind man. He was a nice. man. He wasn't a bad drunk. He just had. a [ __ ] He had an illness, man. He. just [ __ ] couldn't fight it. We were close. We fought. I grew up a. little bit older. The last time I ever. saw my dad or the last conversation that. we ever had was actually in Spain. What.

do you mean you fought? Uh, we fought um. physically on a couple of occasions. Physically. Yeah. And that was down to. me. You know, I'm a young guy full of. ego and testosterone, wanting a bit more. and, you know, all that type of stuff. You know, just normal regular father-son. stuff. Um, but it did get out of hand a. couple of times and it's probably my. fault. Um, he never hit me or anything. It was more, you know, just just. [ __ ] you know. Um, but the last. time I saw my father was actually on a a. beach in in Spain and uh I'd started to.

look at being a Royal Marine. That was. where it started to come. I was around. 15 or 16 at this time. My grandfather. was a Royal Marine Commando in the. Second World War through all the way up. through Sicily and Italy. So, it was. always something that was in my mind. I'd always loved guns. I'd always loved. the military. I'd always been very close. to my heart. You know, I'd always wanted. to to do that. And my dad used to work. for a company called um Brown and Root, which then later turned into Kellogg's. Brown and Route, I believe. KBR. So,

anyone that's ever [ __ ] deployed. anywhere on the planet knows what KBR. facilities is. all the dining facilities. and all the logistical stuff. So he did. that. He was actually involved in um. Desert Shield and Desert Storm. So he. worked for the US government um as a as. a foreign contractor essentially setting. up the the chow halls and the logistics. and all that. That was coming from a. catering background. It was that was. what he did. I remember very early on. watching my dad come back from Bri. Norton um during the first golf war and. in my mind as a young child I thought he. was a soldier. It made no difference to.

me that you know I didn't understand. what was going on. Mhm. He gave me this. cool uh like desert DPM hat. Said. Sergeant Jamie on it and I've still got. it. It says Desert Storm, mission. accomplished and all this sort of stuff. And I used to wear it. It was cool. Like. a boon hat type thing, you know. Um so. in my mind, my dad was a soldier. He. wasn't. He was just in and around it. He. went on to do um. K4 and I4, which is Kosovo. Did some. stuff down there, implementation force, Kosovo force, all that sort of stuff. And then later on he started to work for.

um civilian companies, Exon Mobile, oil. companies and onshore rigs basically. But he was all over the place like. Tajjikistan, you know, Usbekistan, Kazakhstan, all of these places, mines, oil, all that type of stuff. Um. so I'd kind of grown up with him. thinking he was that kind of guy. And so. when I decided that I wanted to join the. military, he was like he he said to me, I'll never forget it. And it's the best. best thing that he's ever given me. And. I look back on it now with nothing but. love. And I, you know, I don't want to.

get too sentiment sentimental about it, but I I choose I choose to believe that. he said what he said to me that day. because he knew what he would do. And he. said to me, he goes, "I was getting. bitten by mosquitoes. I'm one of those. dudes that just [ __ ] no matter where. I go, I'm the one that gets bitten. Everyone else in the room doesn't get. bitten. I get bitten everywhere." And I. was complaining. I was like, "Fucking I. keep getting bitten by mosquitoes." He's. like, "You want to be a Royal Marine. Commando? You'll never make it as a. Royal Marine Commander if you can't take. being bitten by mosquitoes." cuz he. goes, "You haven't got it in you.". That's what causes big argument on the. beach, you know? So, yeah, probably the.

most powerful sentence anyone's ever. told me. And that drove you. [ __ ] yeah, it did. [ __ ] yeah, it did. Let's. backtrack a little bit. Yes, sir. What. were you into as a kid? Guns. Guns. Guns. in the UK. Yeah. How'd you get into. guns? I don't really know where it come from. You'd have to ask my mom. I remember. Real guns or toy guns? Toy guns. Toy. guns. Never shot a real gun until I. joined the military. But I was obsessed. with it, you know, just plastic guns, water pistols, just guns. I was always.

playing with guns. I remember went to. Disneyland once and uh I bought this. like metal [ __ ] Walter PBK. It was. metal like James Bond, right? You know, the old school one. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I put it in my like in my bag. basically. My dad was like, "Don't take. that to the airport." I went with my. grandma like, "Do not take that to the. airport." I was like, "Okay, I did take. it. I put it in the thing." We're going. through the scanner, the alarms are. going off, everyone's going there. It. was like, yeah, the whole the whole. thing. But I used to, you know, it'd be.

cool. My my mom will back this up, but I. used to come home from school and she. was a carpenter, right? So I used to. draw out these guns on wood, on bits of. plywood, and I'd draw them out like to. the minutest detail, like, you know, front sights, magazine wells, stocks, trigger guards, the whole thing. I'd get. a picture from somewhere and I'd draw. these guns out on, you know, with a with. a pen. And she'd cut it out with a. jigsaw. and I'd go out and I'd take. these guns and all my mates were running. around in the woods playing with these. things. I was obsessed with with with. guns for the most part of my childhood. And then kind of football came in. I.

started playing football a bit more and. I sort of got a bit older and yeah, but. but football and guns was was was all I. ever really wanted to do. Um, which is ironic when you look at where I. ended up, you know, there's there's. there's a few things that you can look. back on and be like, nah, you could kind. of see that coming. and my obsession and. love and passion of firearms and you. know weapons manipulation is still there. you know but I was doing it I was I was. practicing high readies when I was six. and I'm not joking I'm not high readies. but you know I was running around with. guns from a very very early age and.

they've always felt natural to me you. know and it wasn't I want to kill people. it was just like I just liked it I just. wanted wanted to play with it and maybe. it was a maybe it was a sort of. something to do with my old man and him. being in at career and you know going. out to these places like. it was always something that I knew I. wanted to do. I always wanted to be in. the military. I always wanted to be a. soldier. That's all that's all I ever. want since an early age. And I kind of. got distracted for a few years and life. happened and all the rest of it. But.

then when I lost my dad, it was like, "Right, boom. Now's the [ __ ] time, you know? Let's let's let's double down. on this." But going back to that. conversation, you know, I when I lost my. dad, it [ __ ] broke my heart. It it. [ __ ] broke me, mate. It did. And it's. it it still does now. You know, more to. the fact that I just wish that he could. have sinned what I did. You know what I. mean? There would he would have been the. proudest person on the planet to see me. get a Green Beret to get into the. regiment. But more importantly than all.

of that [ __ ] he never got to saw my. daughter play football. Not once. Never got to She put on an England shirt. last year. She represented a country. Wow. Three lines on her chest. How old. is she? 15. 15 years old. She's 15. She's a [ __ ] rockstar, dude. She's. going to be a prof professional. footballer. 100%. I've never been more. confident or more sure on anything. than she will be a professional. footballer and she will represent her. country. She'll be a Lioness one day. She's phenomenal. You're a proud dad.

I could Yeah, it's. take everything I've ever done in my. career in military and swap it for for. that. If I could watch. him watch her for 5 minutes, I'd swap it. all. If your dad was here today here, here alive. Yeah. If you could say. anything to him. and you had 30 seconds, what would you.

say to him? You were wrong. Look at your granddaughter. Look at. I tell him I love him. I miss him. Um. and I hope he'd be proud. I think he is. I know he would be, but like. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like you were a bit of a Helion.

as a kid. A bit of a a Helen. Helen. Got. into some trouble. Yeah. Oh, yeah. When. did that start? So I moved around a whole bunch. So in. order to answer that question, you have. to kind of go back to the beginning. Well, you lived in India for 6 months. Yeah, we traveled around India. So my. mom, this is my mom's, she's the bravest. woman I've ever met. And uh yeah, in. about 1994, 1995, I was about six. She. must have been well early 20s. Took me. out of school for 6 months. Like right,

we're going to India. I'm cool. So 6. months we traveled around India. But you. have to bear in mind, she just picked up. and left. She just [ __ ] picked up and. left. Done. Why India? She just wanted. to go traveling. Free spirit, right? She's a hippie. Um, which is ironic cuz. I'm not. But um, yeah, she mate, she. flew out to India. No iPhone, no. internet, no no nothing. A lonely planet. guide, two backpacks. I had one, she had. one, and we just went traveling around.

India. And I I'll never forget that. experience. The first first couple of. days we got there there's speaking. before is there's a place in Delhi I. think it's called the red fort and it's. this big picture I've never ever had an. experience of extreme poverty and. desperation as I've seen there and she. took me out of a fairly. regular comfortable city in the UK and. parachuted me not par you know what I. mean into that situation she did that.

for a [ __ ] reason she wanted me to. see what it was like what the world is. like outside of our bubble bubble which. was the best thing she could have done. and she she hit me hard with it straight. away. She was like it will never get wor. like we had a lovely time in India. We. saw all kinds of beautiful things and. all kinds of you know incredible. experiences but straight off the bat she. was like this is this is what it's like. and I I'll always you know I'll love her. for that because that was that was an. eye opener. Imagine being a six-year-old. child walking around seeing children. with no arms, children with no legs,

poor people that are begging for their. lives. Like literally, you're watching. people sit on the side of the road like. circling the drain hungry as [ __ ] you. know? Like that was like, "Oh, okay, cool. The world isn't a nice place. The. world isn't all [ __ ] you know, roses." Mhm. And that was good cuz she. did it straight off the bat. So. everything that I saw after that was. easy, you know, but we traveled around. the whole place. We spent, you know, most of it in went up to the Himalayas. We went out to the Taj Mahal. We spent. Christmas in Goa. I was playing with G G.

G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G G GI. Joe figures. That's what I got for. Christmas. Little G.I. Joe figures. You. know, GI Joe. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was like building little sand fors and. all that sort of stuff. Yeah. So, that. was cool. So, still the obsession was. still there. And um in terms of. education, I wrote a diary every single. day. Still got them. Like maybe it was a. paragraph, maybe it was a bit more, maybe put a picture in there. But my. reading age went through the roof. I was. reading u Michael Krykton books. So. Jurassic Park, um Sphere, uh what else. was there? You know, all all those types. of books from a very very early age. So.

when I got back to the UK and went to. school again, my reading age was like a. 14-year-old at the age of six. I was. always a reader. Um and I could write, you know, I was writing my diary every. single day. So I didn't come back. academically in any worse place than any. of the kids of my age. When did you. start di your diary? Every day when I. was in India and at 6 years old. We. still have that. Yeah, we still got. them. Yeah, yeah, they're cool. I mean, like some of it's illegible. Some of. it's complete [ __ ] but it's like. it's all pictures and it's like we stick. something in or you know, you can still. when you open up the book, you can smell.

it. You can smell it, you know. It's. cool. You know, like intense sticks and. all all sorts in there. It's crazy. I. look I've not seen them for a few years. I spoke to my mom before I came. I said, "Have you still got them diaries?" She's. like, "We don't have a lot. I don't have. a lot of stuff from my childhood. We. moved around a lot and a lot of it get. lost in the fire, so to speak, but um. we've still got them. they're still out. there and hopefully I'll show them to my. daughter one day and you know but it was. it was a life-changing experience. It it. really was u and I think it set me up. for. my future career. I think it set me up. as a person. I think it gave me a.

broader more wider perspective on life. to see that at such an early age. Um. it was a lot of difficult things. The. first time I ever. was in proximity to somebody that got. killed. I remember that happening pretty. pretty vividly. We were getting off a. train and transiting to another train. but there are no bridges. So where is. this in India? In India. Yeah. We had to. cross the platform platform to platform. and they just used to go the trains were. there and they just literally just walk.

across the platform when there wasn't a. train and cross dep to the next one. And. she lifted me up. She jumped up and. about two people behind us crossing the. the the the the train track, the train. that we were crossing shunted like that. and dragged the woman underneath it and. killed her out. Right. And I remember. sitting there thinking, "Fucking hell.". Like that's quite a surreal moment as a. as a six, seveny old, six-year-old kid. at this time. My mom was great. She just. took me away and was like, but it's hard. lessons, you know? It's like life. lessons. It's like life's short. And. never ever take for granted what you've. got. And even when I'm in the UK and it.

feels like I've got no money or this or. that or whatever, like it's a lot better. than being outside that [ __ ] fort. with no arms. Like, you get me? So, that. kind of give me a a good education. And. I would love to do the same thing with. with my kids or with my daughter. Um, at. some point, you know, if I have children. in the future, [ __ ] damn straight, we're taking them traveling. I want them. to go and see the world, see what it is, you know. Not to say that if you don't. do that you become insulated, but I. think it just gives you a broader a.

broader perspective on. on the world and how it is, the reality. of it, but yeah, it was it was a crazy. experience. [ __ ] really cool. I was. speaking to her last night about it and. um I think again there's a lot of what. happened on that sort of it's almost. like a deployment. It's almost like a. six-month deployment. It's like my first. deployment, you know. Um that's kind of. how I feel about it now. But I had my. own rock sack. Nobody carried my kit. My. mom would carry my kit. I had a sleeping. bag in there. All my books, everything. was in there. That was it. And I carried.

it. And we used to trek around the. Himalayas, like in Thailand, trekking. with elephants and all kinds of mad. [ __ ] And I was like, I carried my own. [ __ ] pack from the age of 6 years. old. And no one [ __ ] helped me. And. my mom gave that to me. And that's. something that I've carried on. Like I. can do that, you know? I know what it's. like when your back hurts, when your. feet hurt, you know, when you're cold, hungry, tired, hot. You know, I was. experiencing that from a very young age. And as I look forward into my life, you. know, I think it gave me a strength. It.

gave me a strength that allowed me to. have a certain level of self-confidence. that I could do that type of stuff if. that makes sense. So yeah, super super grateful for that. experience when we kind of got back from. India. Hold on. A sleeping bag. Yeah. So. were you guys sleeping out of the bush. for 6 months? No, we were staying in. host or hotels or beach huts or. whatever. But like we we brought my own. sleeping bag, my own mosquito net, all. all that stuff. We were self-sufficient, you know. It was a little it was a snug. pack, little purple snug pack, like a.

softy 7 or whatever it was, a super. lightweight one. I remember she lost her. mind once we uh I can't remember why, but we got out on a bus and the sleeping. I don't know why I'm telling you this, but it just comes to my mind. The. sleeping bag comes in like a little. compression sack, right? And for some. reason, we taken a sleeping bag out of. the compression sack and it had fallen. on the floor. And when we got off the. bus, she was like, "Where's the sack?". It had been stolen. That's what. happened. Somebody had just found it cuz. it was foreign and new. So, they took. it. And she was so upset because it was. like, "We've had that sleeping bag sack. for years, you know." Well, not years, but months at this point. It's been.

every part of our journey and now it's. gone. And I remember she was like, "Kit. kitten equipment kit kit awareness." I. was like, "Yeah." So, you know, you. serious? Yeah. I'm not joking, mate. Yeah. Yeah. Sean, if you ever meet my. mom, and I hope you do one day, like. she'll she'll she'll tell you all about. this and she she knows more detail than. I do because I'm I was a child. So, she's got like an incredible. level of, you know, insight into the. whole thing. But that whole experience. was was great for me like and, you know, it was such a cool thing to do. We came. back from India and then she moved to.

Wales. We were sort of um in the middle. of um Mid Wales. So rough a little town. called Ryder which is near Bil Wales. which is in between sort of the Brecon. Beacons and the Elan Valley. Now the. Elan Valley is a particularly disgusting. place which I'd find out on selection a. few years later but I remember clearly. all the trucks coming in and out the. four tunners. We call them four tunners. but you know like the the troop vehicles. there. There's a lot of military. presence around there. It was in the. woods and you know from about 6 to about. 9 10 years old it was all guns and.

football, guns and football, guns and. football. Guns and football. Um but that. that period there was probably the most. stable, happiest part of my childhood. for sure. Um. and I look back on it with nothing but. fond memories. I love Wales. It's very. dear to my heart. We. at some point during that period my. mother decided that she wanted to go. back and get education because she. didn't get the chance when she was a. child a young woman because she was. being a mom. So she went back to her. hometown Oxford uh and did further.

education. So she got she ended up. getting her first degree um in. international development and politics. uh in third world countries. So. basically she went on to work for Oxam. and Save the Children and other kind of. charities. Like her passport had more. stamps of dodgy places than the mine did. at one point. She's like, you know, she's all over the place. She's a cool. woman. Um but this is where I sort of. started to rebel a little bit because. Sean, you have to you have to you have. to realize from my perspective that I. never really had a consistency. And I.

don't blame her for this because that. was just a situation, but I never had. consistency. I didn't have a mom and dad. at home. I never really stayed in the. same place. for more than a few years. I. was constantly making new friends, constantly putting down roots, constantly having to rip them up and. build again. And it got to about, you. know, 10 years old. We moved back to. Oxford. I was like, "Okay, cool." Like, we've had this whole experience in. Wales. We've been traveling. We're back. to my hometown. Like, I don't know. anyone. Like, this is my hometown, but. I'm going to a new school. I've got like. a couple of people that I used to know.

when I was like four or whatever, but I. don't have any friends there. So, I. built a new network of friends, and I'm. there. I'm happy. I was like, football. was my thing now. Football, football, football, football. And then she's like, "Right, we're going. to move. We're going to move again. We're going to go down to the South. Coast cuz that's where the university. that she was studying offered the course. or the next phase of her course." And I. was like, "Fuck, dude. I don't want to. [ __ ] move again, you know?" So, we. did this whole thing back and forth. I. stayed with my dad for a little bit.

while she went down there. He was in the. pub. He was working in the pub. people. that drink a lot of alcohol and working. in pubs is not a good combination. It. wasn't really the right environment for. a small child to be in. I was kind of. like not fending for myself because. that's not fair and that's not true. But. I was had a lot of time where I was just. like my dad was busy and I was doing my. own thing. So eventually she was like. nah you're coming. So I was like what 12. 13 maybe at this point and I did not. want to move again and that's when I. started to really rebel a little bit you.

know I stopped going to school. started I still playing football but not. as not as much as I should and hanging. around with the wrong people became a. thing you know it was like you know. sitting in the park drinking cider. was more appealing than going and. playing football because I didn't have. I didn't really have anyone to tell me. no, which was my biggest problem. I. didn't really have a dad to be able to. be like, I didn't have a dad. That. sounds terrible. But he didn't grip me.

for it. He wasn't around much. He wasn't. around much and he was doing his own. thing, you know? He's abroad working or. he was doing this or whatever. Um, and. my mom was consumed in her pursuit of. her degree. Like she's like me. She gets. same as my daughter. Exactly the same. We be one thing that our bloodline has. is the ability to become obsessed. When. we become obsessed on something on lock. in on something, it there's nothing on. the planet that will stop them. Um, so. she was doing that. You know, she's. still young at this point. Like,

so I kind of didn't go off the rails. completely, but I was definitely. drifting. I was definitely drifting and. I was definitely not going to join the. military. It wasn't something I'd. thinking about. I was too busy trying to. be cool. I was too busy. trying to be that guy. if that makes. sense. And it was never me. Do you know. what I mean? I was hanging around with. kids that were like [ __ ] from rough. estates. Like we were going out and, you. know, it was a bit fighting here and. there and all that sort of stuff, but I. was never that. I thought I was, but. like I was a little I'm not a tough guy. [ __ ] like some of these kids come.

from [ __ ] nothing. And there, you. know, violent backgrounds, violent. places, and you know, there was a lot of. violence around, especially in where you. know, that time in my life. And um I. kind of thought it was for me, but it. wasn't. And it wasn't until I got to. about. 15 years old. where. I was offered a job, again, talk about. pivotal moments, things that change the. trajectory of your life. Uh, a friend of. my mom was a tree surgeon. You have a.

different It's like an arborist. Arborist. There you go. But you know. what I mean. He gave me £10. He came I. was, you know, he goes, "I'm going to. give you 10 quid and that's for a train. ticket tomorrow. you're going to turn up. here and I'm going to give you a job. So, I left school at 15. You should. leave at 16, but I left at 15. I didn't turn up. You dropped out of. school at 15 years old. Yeah. 15. I. didn't get a qualification, not even a. basic qualification until I was like. mid-30s. And the army was like, "You're. a sergeant now. You you got to [ __ ].

do the thing." And I was like, "Fuck, I. can't, you know, like I write a bit now, you know, sometimes I write a little bit. and um people, oh, you're good at. writing." And I'm like, [ __ ] knows where. that came from cuz it didn't come from. school. Like I'm not educated. I'm not. stupid and I'm not unintelligent, but. I'm not educated. Um, hey, seems to do all right so far. But. yeah, he offered me that money to go and do. that job and I didn't spend it on. whatever cigarettes probably. And he.

[ __ ] turned up the next day. He was. like, "Hey, I give you 10 quid. yesterday. Come and work. You're not. going to go to school. You need to get. out there and work." And I was like, "Okay." And I'm grateful for this guy. for doing that cuz he could have just. been like, you know, give up. Yeah. Just. fired me or give up on me, but he. didn't. He goes, "I'm going to give you. another £10 and you're going to be there. tomorrow." And I did. I got up, went on, got on the train, traveled to wherever. the place I needed to be was. Got off. the train, walked to his thing, and from.

that moment on, I've always earned my. own money. I've always provided a roof. over my own head. And it was hard work, man. Those I learned hard lessons there. It was like I was dragging. So, you. know, when they cut the branches down, I. wasn't able to climb with a chainsaw. I. wouldn't even use a chainsaw for the. first sort of few months. It was just. literally just dragging, putting it in. the wood chipper, splitting logs, putting the logs on the truck, just hard. graft, you know, just manual labor from. a very early age. I did that for a few. months with him and then somebody else. took me on and was like, I'm going to. give you a full-time apprenticeship.

basically. So, by the time I was 16, I. was a fully qualified tree surgeon, MPTC, which is all the qualifications. that you need. So I had medium felling, large felling, small felling, aerial. rescue, um use of chainsaw from rope and. harness, all that [ __ ] maintenance. of a chainsaw. I'd learned it all. I got. all the qualifications, paid for them. all myself. I had all my own equipment. I own two chainsaws, rope, harness, silky saw, secretars, the full thing. I. was a pretty much self-employed tree. surgeon at the age of 16. I did my. qualifications on my 16th birthday, which by def unless that's the earliest. you can do it. So at one point I was.

probably unless somebody done it a few. minutes before me, it's probably the. youngest qualified tree surgeon in the. country. And that was good, dude. I was. happy. I was living in a caravan on my. mate's driveway. I moved out of home. I. was living closer to work, so I had to. get the train, all that other [ __ ] I. just explained. So, I bought a caravan. for like £500. Tiny, you know, caravan. Yeah. Like a like an RV. Like an RV. Yeah. You seen the movie Snatch? Yes. Yeah. Like that. Want a caravan with no. wheels? Okay. No one had wheels. You. know what I'm talking about? So, I. bought this tiny little caravan, put it. on my mate's driveway, and I was living.

in there. I was working every single. day, getting up, going out, hard days, coming back. I look at it now, it's like. [ __ ] I was surviving on like noodles. and chicken nuggets. Like, you know what. I mean? But it was cold, it was wet. My. boss would pick me up every morning and. it didn't matter what. And I learned a. valuable lesson there. It's like two. things. Number one, you don't go to. work, you don't get paid. You don't get. paid, you don't eat. I was a cool, I can. live with that. And the second one was. the ability to crack on in terms of it. did not matter to this guy that I was. He was one of three brothers. Their dad.

was been in the forest for their entire. lives. His hands were like this shovels, you know. He was a tree surgeon in and. out, you know? That's all he'd ever. known. Three boys. They're all tree. surgeons now. So, he was like he was top. tier at that. But he was a hard [ __ ]. man, but a lovely man. And he took me. under his wing cuz he I guess he kind of. knew that I needed it. But it didn't. matter if it was snowing, didn't matter. if it was raining. Like we're talking. about getting picked up in the 5:00, 6:00 in the morning. Sideways rain, dark. I'm coming out of my caravan.

Van's there in the caravan. So, into the. truck, drive, tree, surgery, work all. day, come back 5, 6:00, go back, eat, sleep, repeat. Did that for a couple of. years. in my free time, probably spending it doing, you know, chasing girls and drinking beer. Like, what the [ __ ] else am I supposed to be. doing? I'm 17, 18 year old. I'm just. happy I'm earning money. I'm earning £50. a day, which doesn't sound a lot now, but back then that was a [ __ ] you. know, £250 a week, dude. I'm only paying. like 25 quid for rent on this caravan. Like, the rest of it is mine. All my own.

equipment's mine. So, like, I'm living. the dream to a point. But it was almost. like, I don't know if I want to do this. forever, but right now it's good. I was seeing my dad fairly infrequently, sometimes more than others. But one. thing that me and my dad always had and. always always always shared and the one. thing that for the most part he always. showed up for was taking me to see. football. We'd always go I'm a West Ham. supporter. He's a West Ham supporter. So. we'd always go for football, you know.

But as I started to get older, my. tolerance of [ __ ] or what I would. consider, you know, think when you're a. 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 year old kid, going to. watch a football match and spending half. the day in the pub is not a problem. But. when you're 15, 16, 17 and you kind of. need a little bit more, like. you start to understand these things. You start to recognize it a little bit. and be like, you know, [ __ ] hell. Like, give me some more. I need more. attention. I need more, you know, and.

that's kind of where that that friction. started that I was talking about before. So, yeah. So, did your mom move while. you were when you became when you when. you when you left at 15? Did your mom. continue? So, she stayed in she stayed. where she was working and doing her. degree. It's probably about half an hour. away. So, not far, but yeah, she she. stayed there doing her thing. She she. knows me. She was like, I can't control. this any not control it, but she's a. free spirit. like she raised me from 16.

years old. So when I'm rebelling at that. age there or thereabouts, she's like, "Okay, as long as you're safe, you're. working, you're, you know, you're providing for. yourself, I'm here if you need me, go. and do your thing, go and get it out of. your system." And to be honest, if she. hadn't have done that, it wouldn't have. worked because you ain't controlling me. You not not, you know, when I met Do you. do you understand what I mean by that? like I was away for it, you know.

But yeah. Yeah. Then. then the whole thing with my dad. happened and yeah, that kind of changed. my life. That was that was the point. where I was like, I ain't cutting trees. no more. So your dad passed before you. joined the military. Yeah. Yeah. About a. year before. What was it that triggered. what was it that triggered you to join. that? His passing. Yeah. That. conversation that we had on that beach. when he told me that I couldn't was like. I didn't do it to prove him wrong. I did. it to prove him right if that makes.

sense. I sound a bit of a contradiction. but I just wanted to show him. I loved. my dad. I [ __ ] adored him. I. worshiped him. He's a [ __ ] superhero. to me, you know. So I just wanted to. give him something, you know, like there. you go. The proudest moment of my life, mate, was when I got my Green Beret. [ __ ] the regiment. [ __ ] all that. not. [ __ ] them. But you know that green bray. when I earned that from becoming a. civilian after all the [ __ ] that I've. been through in my childhood, not [ __ ]. but like all the stuff that I've been. through to get to that point, just to. get to the start point in raw marine. training, let alone finish the commando.

course and get that green bay on my head. for the first time was. yeah, I gave that green bay to my. grandma. She's still got it. Well, she's. passed away now, but that Green Beret is. there. And same as my regimental beret, the same one. They're both side by side. And I remember next to my dad's ashes. there was my green beret, my sandy. beret, and they were both there. And I. remember thinking, "Yeah, job [ __ ]. done." You know, but um that was the. trigger. That's why I did it. I joined. the Marines for my dad. I joined a.

regiment for my daughter. Wow. But yeah, that's kind of where where it all. started. And how old were you when you. joined? 19, I think. Yeah. 19. 19 years. old. Yeah. And that was um again I talk. a lot about setbacks that interim period. of losing my dad and joining the. Marines. So it was like a year or so gap. and I inherited a very small amount of. money. It wasn't an inheritance. It was. actually uh an insurance payout. My dad. died in Africa in Chad.

um from a heart attack and yeah we can. talk about that if you want but like. yeah a few thousand. I spent that all on football clothes. beer and whatever the [ __ ] I wanted. I. didn't do anything useful with it at. all. But I really went into football at. that point. I was going every single. game home away religiously. because maybe on some level it made me.

feel closer to him a little bit. I think. that was the one thing that we always. had, you know. Um. it's a [ __ ] funny coincidence if you. believe in coincidence. I know we don't, but my football team is awful, Sean. We. never win [ __ ] all. We never win [ __ ]. all but that year 2006, we reached the cup final. We're never. going to win the league. It's never. going to happen, but we might win the. cup. It was one thing we might win. And. it was Yeah, it was that year. We. [ __ ] got there that year. No kidding.

2006, I went to Cardiff, watched us play. Liverpool. We lost the game, but it was. like. that was the one thing that we always. wanted to do together, if that made. sense. It does. And I got it. I got to. see it. And, you know, I don't know why. or how or where, but it felt like Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It felt It felt. like he was there and he saw it. But. yeah, all we ever want to do is go to. the cup final, dude. We [ __ ] got I. got there. We got there, you know. So. yeah, I'll never forget that. Well, Jay,

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All right, Jay, we're back from the. break. You're getting ready to join the. Royal Marines, but you One thing we. didn't cover is you had a setback. You. had an arrest. Yeah. So, I was so I was. at I was at a football match in Norwich. of all places. Now, Norwich, you. probably never heard of Norwich, have. you, Sean? I haven't. For good reason. Not a lot happened there. But yeah, it. wasn't anything crazy. There was no, you. know, it was just a little bit of a.

little bit of this, a little bit of. that. Eventually, the police were like, "Yeah, you're drunk. You're being. obnoxious." Whatever. Just football. stuff. I was a kid, man. Like, I just. lost my dad. I'm not making excuses for. it. It wasn't the best behavior, but it. wasn't serious. It wasn't I wasn't, you. know, wasn't doing anything that bad. But they did arrest me and they released. me very shortly afterwards for like. breach of the peace or some, you know, can't remember what the charges [ __ ]. like that. just football stuff. basically. What was it? A fight? Uh. there was a bit of a fight before and. then we'd gone to another pub and they.

were like, "Yeah, those guys." And I was. one of the ones that didn't manage to. get away basically. It was, you know, handbags. We call it handbags in the UK. It was nothing serious. But um you. hadn't perfected your A&E strategy yet, huh? No, I had not. No, no, no. I. definitely not. Yeah. So um lessons. identified but the the the consequence. for that was that you have to run out a. year basically. It has to be it was a. conditional discharge. There was no. charges brought other than the fact that.

it had happened but no further charges. so to speak. So it was like cool. happened on this date one year later. it's all gone off your record. completely. It was a minor thing you. know trivial minor stuff. So my dad's died. I've gone back out to. Spain because my dad was living in Spain. with my grandma and I didn't want my. grandma going back out to Spain on her. own. So, I went out there and I started. to. started to think about the Marines. That. kind of was a thing. I was training. quite a lot. I was starting to run, starting to get on the pull-up bar,

starting to lift a few weights, you. know, just trying to, you know, just. gradually doing it. Still trying to. process the loss of my dad is this. It. rocked my world. I'll be honest with. you. Um, and then I came back to the UK. and then the worst thing that possible. could have happened is I got a little. bit of money and was like, "Okay, I'm. back to being distracted again with. football and all the rest of it." So. that kind of ran. and then it wasn't until basically the. money ran out and the season finished at. the end of that cup final that I told. you about. When the cup final finished, I was like, "Okay, cool. You've had a. good run now. You've had like six, seven.

months of, you know, getting it out of. your system. What's next? Do I want to. go back to trees?" Not really. now it's time to join the Marines. So I. went back to Spain and started training. for the Marines. Um training hard, started to really focus in on it. Um my. mom was completely supportive of it. I'm. her only child. Like I don't have any. brothers or sisters. Like so for her and. this was like I think what's important. to note is that when I joined the. Marines, Sean, I joined the Marines to. go to Afghanistan. I wasn't looking for. a career. I wanted to go to war. What.

year was this? 2006. 2006. Yeah. 2006. So the war was happening. War was was. busy. I remember watching pictures of. like it was a parachute regiment. They. were in sang um a place where I'd go and. you could see them there all like I. thought it was the coolest [ __ ] [ __ ]. ever. They all body armor, no t-shirts, all skinny because there all they're. doing is scrapping every day, you know, eating rations. And I was like, "Yeah, that's that's that's where I want to be. I want to be that guy, you know?" So I. go career's office, everything's good. Go through the first phases. A guy.

called Corporal Darling was his name. I'll never forget it's a nice name. He. then came came up to me and he was like, "Have you got a criminal record?" I was. like, "Uh, no." And he was like, "What. have you got?" And I was, "I've got a. conditional discharge." And he's like, "When from?" And I gave him the dates. He's like, "Dude, you're going to have. to wait 6 months before you can come. back." So, that was the first setback. really in terms of I was locked in. Remember I told you about that obsession. thing that I've got this weird thing. where if I obsess on something, I'll. achieve it. And I was obsessed. And I'm. proud of myself. And I am I don't give.

myself enough credit for this, you I. don't want to sound like a prick, but I. am proud of myself for this, Sean, because I stuck to my guns and I was. ending up like picking up random jobs. I. was working in like this little tiny. place selling like ice creams to people. and making coffee. I was anything just. to afford a gym membership and stay on. track. And I did. And I stayed on track. And then I finally got the opportunity. to to turn up at Limston. And. the Commando Training Center at Limston. is a hell of a place. It's a hell of a.

facility. And I remember turning up on. the train in a suit. I' I'd worn that. suit three times. I'd worn it to my. dad's funeral. I'd worn it to a court. appearance. And now I was turning up to. the Royal Marines in it. So it felt. connected to me, you know, the whole. thing. And I remember turning up with my. iron in board, shaved head, and I was. ready to go. I was a true believer, you. know, when you when you talk about there. were kids probably 60 or 70 of us joined. that intake, and you can tell the ones that aren't. going to last a week. You can tell the. ones that are on the fence, off the.

fence. I'd been fairly independent from. a very early age. I'm used to hard work. I know what it's like to be cold. I know. what it's like to be wet. I know what. it's like to have a pack on. I've. traveled, you know. So, I think all of. those things put me in good good. position in goodstead. And I was doing. it because I wanted to do it for my dad. That was my superpower. Like when. discipline goes, when motiv motivation. goes, when you're cold, wet, tired, hungry, that those those things are. real. But obsession.

obsession never left me. And it was that. obsession to do that, to get that green. beret that drove me. And I never once. ever felt like this is not for me or I'm. going to quit. I got another setback. during training, probably mid to halfway. through. It's a 32 week course. I was. about 17 or 18 weeks in. Um I jumped off. a wall on the assault course, the O. course. And I basically broke my foot. Well, not basically. I broke my foot. Um.

carried on for another week or so, went. on an exercise and basically broke one. and fractured the other one. So that's. what you you get back troop then. essentially. So you don't stay with that. intake. They don't kick you out, but. they just put you in a holding place, rehabilitate you, and then you have to. go again. That was [ __ ] hard, dude. Start all over and start where you left. off. Start where you left off. Yeah. Start where you left off. But that was. hard because it was like that was my. dream gone. I wanted to be an original. I wanted to It doesn't mean anything, but to me it meant I wanted to pass 32.

weeks in one go. And then I'm in this. indefinite period of rehabilitation. Until you're better, you can't go back. in. So I remember watching my troop go. They were like six, seven weeks ahead of. me. They passed out, you know, all those. guys. And I remember I broke down in. front of my troop sergeant, a guy called. um Baz Weston. He was killed. um in. Afghanistan a few years later on. Um but. he was a he was like a superhero to me. He was everything that you would imagine. a Raw Marine Sergeant should be. Short. guy from Reading. He liked football too. He was a Chelsea fan. Had a big scar on.

his face. He was a Mortman. But he was. hard on us. We got wet every single time. we were in the field. We got smashed to. bits. Everyone on that camp knew that. our troop 939 was he was making. monsters. He was turning us into. commandos [ __ ] in quick order. And I. look back on it at the time I was like. this dude is just [ __ ] smashing us. for no reason. But when I look back on. it, I respect him and love him so much. for what he did because he [ __ ] knew. full well like you take ownership of. training people. These are kids off the. street from all different backgrounds.

and he knew full well we were going to. Afghanistan. He had been there before. Yep. He'd done his tours. Yeah. He done. a bunch of tours. He was a senior guy. and he knew he was he's not creating. camp commandos. He's he's these guys are. going to go to war and he knew that a. lot of us would would see it and some of. us weren't coming back and we knew that. We got that feeling from the very. [ __ ] minute we stepped into that. building that this is no joke like when. you leave this facility you are going to. go to war. So we were like cool. Unfortunately he did get killed in.

Afghanistan. Um. which was a [ __ ] massive shame and it. hit us all really hard. But he provided. what he did was produce good commandos, good war fighting commandos, young men. that were ready to go out there and. fight and. do the business. And I look at some of. the guys that I passed out of training. through and they're [ __ ] phenomenal. Like, you know, so much respect for the. Royal Marines. So, what was his name? Bazon was his name. Sergeant Baz Weston. Uh, he got hit by an ID.

Uh, directional one. If I can stand a. chance. Um, I remember actually going to. digress slightly, but where they used to. fly the bodies in back from Afghanistan, they used to land in a place called. Prize Norton, which is about 10 minutes. from where I lived, and they used to. take the bodies straight to Oxford up. the hill to the John Ragcliffe Hospital, and that's where they used to do the um. examinations of the bodies and do do all. the the necessary medical stuff before. they release them to the families.

So for for years I remember every time. somebody got killed I would go and stand. on that hill cuz everyone would come out. and they'd watch the coffins come up and. I'd watch that. I remember on RNR. watching that and I remember the mother. of my child watching that. I remember my. mom watching that and you know we we. lost 450 odd people during that conflict. which doesn't sound a lot if you talk. about you know other conflicts but every. single one of those people had a family. Every single one of those matters. Um, and it just felt like we couldn't escape.

it for a long time. It was everywhere. It was it was consumed everything that. we did. Um, as a group and as a family, it was it was a very it was such an. intense period of my life. It was it was. mental. Um, but Baz was a good guy. Baz. gave skills to us that no doubt saved my. life for sure and made us combat. effective combat ready Marines. that went out and did the business. And. people talk about you know this.

generation's doubt that generation I'll. always put it like this and my old S. major said it in the squadron. He was. like experience. is a luxury. It's not a necessity. I. think people are oh these guys have got. no experience. They haven't done this. They haven't done the G-W. So what? Nobody had any experience when we went. to Afghanistan. Nobody had any. experience when we went to the Forklands. or wherever we've been. Like it's okay. The training works, believe in the. process, trust the system. And if you've. got good instructors, and this is again. what I'm trying to carry forward, if. you've got good instructors that have. been there that have got the right. reasons about them, they will give you.

the information that you need to. survive. You might get unlucky, but you. know, if you stick to the process, you. don't have to have done 20 tours or, you. know, that mission or this hostage. rescue or whatever it is to be a good. soldier or a good operator or good. anything. Like, trust the process. Trust. trust the training. It annoys me. slightly when people look down at this. next generation of guys and go, "Oh. yeah, they've got no experience." So. what? You know, instead of instead of. saying that to them, why don't we gas. them up? Because I tell you what's going. to happen in a few years time when we're. old men sat on our sofas and couches at. homes with our families. These these.

young men that we're quick to criticize. and go, "Oh, they're not as tough as we. are." They're going to be the ones out. there losing their lives. They're going. to be ones out there sacrificing. So the. next generation is super important to. me. But he was the one, the first one. that really sort of made me think about. that. I got back into training. So, I finally. got back into my troop and I passed out. And uh. it was the [ __ ] proudest moment of my. life, mate. It really was. I remember. you do the last test you do is a 30. mileer across Dartmore and it's like the.

culmination of 32 weeks. You do the. commando test and the last thing is you. stop and then you go over this bridge. and when you go over this bridge, you. get given your green gray and it's the. first time you can put it on your head. and it's, you know, it's what you it's. the whole thing. It's like this isn't. just 32 weeks or, you know, 40 weeks of. training for me. This is 19 years. This. is n this is going back playing with. guns when I was a kid. Everything I ever. did for my dad, it was all in this one. moment, you know. And there was a lad in. my troop in my section called Luke. And.

uh he'd lost his brother. And we stopped. and I saw him and he had a tear coming. down his face. So, what's wrong? He. goes, "Oh, I wish my brother was here to. see this." And I said, "Dude, I wish my. [ __ ] dad was here to see this." And I. remember that. I'll never ever forget. it. And we sorted ourselves out, wiped. our faces down, [ __ ] tucked our. pouches in, you know, let's go. We. crossed the bridge. And again, I was. like, I'm quite emotional at this point. I start there's a there's a corporal. called Luke Kerry. He was a particularly.

professional, diligent corporal. Um, but. he was hard as [ __ ] nails, hard as. woodpeckers lips, you know. And uh he's. like, "Why are you crying?" I said, "I'm. just proud." He goes, "Boot necks don't. cry." and he was like and then give me a. wink and that was it. You know what I. mean? I was like there you go. So, uh. that was a really really big moment for. me. It was something I'll always look. back on as probably one of the proudest. bar my daughter. Probably the best. moment of my life bar none. Um so there. I was green beret training's done and.

there's no pompaw ceremony about it when. they tell you where you're going. There's there's a bunch of different. commander units. Okay, so there's 45. commando, 40 commando and 42 commando. Those were the fighting commando units. at the time. 42 and 45 were deploying. shortly afterwards. Real quick, what did your mom think? She knew exactly what it meant to me and. she was fully supportive of it. She. knew. She knew that I was chasing a. dream. That's all I ever wanted to be.

Since I was a small kid, I always wanted. to be a soldier and now I was, you know, and she was proud of it. and. she's done 11 deployments. My daughter's. done 10 deployments. I don't I I I count. my deployments as their deployment. They've done the same thing. They've. been through every single piece of that. Never once. has my mom ever done anything other than. support me and back me and gas me up and. and have me, you know, have my back. Like, never did she say, "Don't do it.".

Never did she say, "You sure?" you know, she always always always supported it. because she knew deep down that's what I. wanted to do. That's love, you know, and. it's unconditional love and support and. that's, you know, that's what she gave. me. And again, she's such an incredible. woman. I was like, you know, if you're. telling me I can do it, I can do it. I'm. got my dad's not going to tell me to do. it. In fact, he told me I couldn't do. it. She went the other way. So, it must be hard for her. It must have. been, especially in that sort of time. frame between 2008 to 2012.

It was like every week we were losing. people, man. Every week. And they were. coming right up the h right up the road, right up the street. Like my hometown. was where they took the bodies. And I. remember like it was on my. we'll get into the second deployment cuz. that's the most important one for me. But the second deployment I remember. coming back on RNR. I had a 10-day. period in the UK and for five of those. days I would go and stand on that hill. and watch people come up. Man, with a.

brand new baby in my hand, you know, she. was 2 weeks old when I deployed. So, like she was 2 weeks old. Yeah. On the. second deployment. Yeah. But we can, you know, I got to cover. some stuff on the first one before I get. to the second one. But the second one I. really do want to get into because I. think that's to me that was the most. life-changing deployment I've done. And. and nothing I've ever done in special. forces comes anything close to the. carnage and the war that that 2010. hanging deployment had cuz that was.

[ __ ] total war. That was that was. real. That was raw. And it was every. [ __ ] day. And we lost a lot of. people. My company suffered a one in. three casualty rate. One in three. Imagine that. That's dead or very. seriously injured. Like limbs, eyes, testicles, [ __ ] you name it. We lost. a lot in that deployment. And nothing I've ever done comes. anywhere near that. But that first. deployment was. it was different. It was a slightly. slower tempo cuz it was a winter.

deployment. Where was it? Sang. So I. went to Sang and Helman Province and we. got called onto the landing before we. just finished training. Everyone's. gasping, you know, where are we going? Where are we going? Who's going to 45? Who's going to 42? And it's just like. said my name was like, "Yeah, 45. commando." And I was like, "Ah, yes. [ __ ] yes. We're going finally." You. know, I'm not here to be a camp. commando. I want to go to war. And they. told me. So I go up to 45 commando which is right.

at the top of Scotland in the middle of. nowhere. Solid unit. It's like it's a. war fighting unit. Great pedigree. Loads. of stuff from the fork learns and you. name it. Four or five commandos been. there and it's got a reputation for. being a hard unit, a war fighting unit. So I was gassed. I was so excited to go. there and uh we did the whole. pre-eployment training and it was we're. in that kind of crossover now Sean and. you'll understand this where it went. from like early sort of Afghan day sort. of 20056 up it was a lot of firefights.

and gunfights and then it kind of. pivoted to IEDs and it went real quick. um not to say that the gunfights weren't. still happening but the IEDs went. through the roof so we were very aware. that that was that was what was what was. coming that was what was waiting for us. and um my company got split up Some guys. went down to um FOB Jibralta down in. Helman province and we went to Sang. district. Now Sangin for those you're. probably aware of it. Sang was the. epicenter of the Helman conflict. We.

lost more troops in Sang than anywhere. else by a [ __ ] disproportionate. amount. It was like it was. urban, it was rural, it was everything. in between and it was dangerous. Really, really dangerous place to be, especially. during that time frame. But for young. Marines, it was like, "Yes, that's where. I want to go." You know, because I was. naive and I was stupid and I'd never. felt the blast of an ID. I'd never seen. someone get shot or bled out. I never. seen it. I didn't know, but I wanted it. You know, that naivity was a superpower,

but it was also foolish. But you grow. and you learn. But yeah, that was where. I really cut my teeth. The soldiering. was hard there, Sean. We lived in a. patrol base, mate. There was no there. was no electric for 6 months. People. talk about, you know, there's no. electric in there. There was no shower. in there. The toilets was a metal a. metal, you know, oil can with a with a. seat over it. That's what we had. We. lived on rations for 6 months. Like. legit, when it rained, the compound that. we had occupied because we'd fortified. the roof so much with sandbags and guns. and all kinds of other [ __ ] would start.

to collapse. Like we walked around, we. did Sanger patrols. So like, you know, there's four or five static positions. for security. So if you weren't manning. those for 24 hours, you were on patrol. for 24 hours for 6 months. So you would. do 4 and 1/2 hours of you know staging. on sentry and then you would have 3. hours rest. You do that for 24 hours and. then you would go on patrol and we got. in multiples of like 12 guys maybe. And. the amount of kit that we had to carry.

electric you know um countermeasures. like the ECMs they're [ __ ] heavy. The. batteries the link I was a mini me. gunner the metal detectors spare metal. detectors spare batteries back breaking. pain mate. was like hard hard soldiering. and then you come back and. live in a in a in a mud hut essentially. That's what what it was for for 6. months. All the while you're working in. a minefield every single time you step. out of that gate, you effectively in a. minefield and the enemy was never.

anywhere to be seen but they'd smash you. from anywhere and then we'd smash them. back and then we go back and that was. what it was. It was just that for 6. months. It was the first time I ever. engaged anybody was on that deployment. It was the first time I got blown up by. a suicide bomb was on that deployment. Dealt with casualties on that. deployment. It all happened, but it was. quite steady tempo if that makes sense. Unlike the next deployment where it was. just straight off the bat, [ __ ] full. scent. But I did learn a lot. What was your. first engagement? Um,

it's actually quite a funny story. I. mean, I shouldn't say, but it's quite. funny. So we were given a warning. basically that there was a suicide. bomber. um on a motorbike dressed in black. shaved head and there was two of them. and we were told to stop anyone that. looked or fitted that description. Now. you've been to Afghanistan. that's not uncommon. The shaved head's a. little bit rare but apart from that you. see that [ __ ] all the time so it's very. difficult but I remember I was on a. sentry position overlooking this big. dust bowl. It was probably about 600 600.

700 meters open open area and we had a. patrol a satellite patrol that had gone. off and this motorbike blew through an. uh Afghan checkpoint across this open. ground and someone fired a a pen flare. you know the little pen flares that was. the escal we had an escalation process. so it was like pen flare warning shot. lethal force etc. So the guy on the. bottom sanger had done that whole thing. He fired the pen flare, fired a warning. shot and this dude was driving across. and it was the right people. So I'm up. there with a mini me. So it's like a. saw, right? So I'm like, "Fuck it." Like.

a belt fed machine gun. It was a [ __ ]. beltfed machine gun. Yeah. And I was. good with it. That was my weapon system. Like I'm pretty good at dishing out the. [ __ ] with a beltfed weapon system. And. that was my gun and I knew what to do. with it. So I'm out. Boom boom boom. boom. And I see it's like something out. of a film. Like you just see the rounds. coming up. All this dust dust bolt. coming out. All this dust would go and. the bike would keep going. I'm like, "Fuck, dude. I'm not even hitting this. dude." I'm like, "So I I I unloaded the. belt. It was a 50 50 round belt.". And you can just see it was like someone. out of a cartoon. It was like every time. the rounds would hit the ground and the.

dust would come up, the bike would come. out the end of it. And I'm like, I must. I'm there. So I'm not leading it. I'm. trying. I can't be missing that. There's. there's no chance I'm not hit this. And it drives off, goes through the. thing, and I'm like, "Fuck." Like this. is my moment. Like I've been waiting for. this. not waiting for it, but like this. is this is what I've been preparing for. I'm training for this, you know, and I. [ __ ] miss the dudes. I didn't [ __ ]. get them. So, I'm like I'm [ __ ]. embarrassed. My patrol or the other half. of the patrol comes in and they're all.

laughing. They're like, "Fucking hell. What what the [ __ ] were you doing on. that Sanger with that machine gun?" And. I'm like, "Fucking hell, dude. I'm. trying to hit." This is about 400 m a. moving target. It's not an easy shot, but I have got a beltfed weapon that I. do know how to use. And I'm like, "Fuck, dude. I don't know." I was trying like I. was leading it. I had it on my sight. It. was on iron sight. I had it like I just. can't believe I I'm sorry. He goes, "No, we did see some blood when they came. through this little gate, this little. entrance where the bike." He's like, "Yeah, there's there's blood there.". Like, you might have got something. It. wasn't until that night we went out and. did a patrol um overwatch patrol for. these convoys that used to come in. And.

uh we just have to basically pick the. line. It was a pain in the ass, but we. had to go and do it like 6 hours just. sat on a roof sometime. And the uh the. ANA commander came up and he was like, "Yeah, you you killed two two Taliban. commanders." I was like, "What do you is. that yeah, they we they turned up at the. local mosque and they'd been [ __ ]. riddled all up the side and on the legs. Fair play to the dude on the bike. He. kept going. But like yeah, we got them. I got them. And uh it felt like a bit of. a weird one for me cuz I was like you. expect to see the results of of that. Does that make sense? I know exact Do. you know what I mean by that? I know.

exactly what you mean. What caliber was. it? I'm just curious. 556. See, that's. something we learned when in what I. think it was 2006 is we would be hitting. guys and we wouldn't realize that we. were hitting them because you know the. velocity and the round the green tip. rounds armor piercing rounds just fly. through them and then you would see them. and they had the little little bitty pin. holes. Yep. It's not what you think, you. know. And then and then we we started. stacking our magazines and doing two.

green tip, 177 grain, two green tip, 177. grain. And once we switched to 77 grain, a whole another ball game. Yeah. But, you know, it's it's interesting that. it took so long for. those lessons learned to to to kind of. percolate throughout all of the. military. I had no idea. All of it. Yep. And um it it's it's it's it's like.

nobody was communicating that. No, we. shouldn't have been using green tip. We. weren't fighting guys with body armor. No. And um so actually I think we were. doing two 77s and one green tip. That. way we could punch through a car easier. But. So how long was it until you found out. that you had killed him days? It was. that night. Yeah. Yeah. Which for me it. was more a sense of relief. I I'll be. honest, like I don't I don't attach much. um certainly no empathy for them. Um.

but it was kind of a bit of it was. anticlimatic in a in a weird way, but it. was more relief that the guys in the. rest of my platoon didn't think I was no. good with that machine gun. It was like, I [ __ ] told you, I knew I did. And. they're like, yeah, no, good effort. Um. but yeah, it was a bit of a surreal. moment. They're like, yeah, they they. they went to the mosque and they bled. out. And I was like, "Okay, cool. I'll. take it." You know, but it didn't feel. real cuz I didn't I didn't later on in. my career. You didn't see it. Didn't see.

it. Didn't feel it. I've been as close. as you and me are multiple times with. live engagements. That's a different. [ __ ] feeling. You can [ __ ] see the. rounds rip through a human being that. way. But like in this case, it was. distance. If you've ever read that book. on killing, if you ever read it, it's. about proximity a lot of it, isn't and. the different natures and types. It's. like artillery guys and mortar guys. Don't don't bat an eyelid. But if you're. this close, it's slightly different. That came later. There was a couple of. other engagements I had on that.

deployment. I dropped a couple of people. that were engaging us or maneuvering. around us. Um. but again, the the rules of engagement. were were very strict and professional. It was like we had an escalation. process. Now, I don't want to talk about. this too much, but what I will say is. that coin theory [ __ ] about. winning the population to win the war. and courageous restraint, it cost people's lives because it was. not understood and it was not employed. and you're fighting an enemy that does.

not give a [ __ ] So, whoever came up. with that, well done because I think. they've got blood on their hands in my. opinion because what you did was you. restricted a bunch of young Marines, paratroopers, infantrymen from all over. the coalition and you put their this. stuff in their head which caused them to. have doubt which then caused them to. lose their lives. And I and I stand by. that. It slows the decision making. process. Slows the decision-m process. And we'll talk about this later on, but. you cannot put dou doubt in people's. minds. You've got to trust people to. make the right decision. Like the.

Commando Training Center is exemplary as. a center of excellence for producing. professional soldiers. Do not do not. start to limit them or put their hands. behind their backs and send them into. these situations with that doubt in the. back of their head that if they do. something wrong, they're going to go to. prison. This is some some real stuff and. we'll talk about it later, but this is. some real [ __ ] that needs to be. addressed because it's it costs people's. lives. You know, it was a hard tour. Um, it was a long.

tour. It was the first time I got blown. up with a suicide bomber on that one. It. was right towards the end of it. We were. coming down. I don't Do you ever go to. FOB Jackson and S? Did you ever make it. up there? No. So, there's this bridge. basically. I won't bore you with the. details, but we were on a long patrol. We were coming back and it was towards. the end. Usually, we're very good at. keeping distances between people, but. this kid walked out. He must have been. 13, 14. I walked past him. I walked. right past him and he looked like um he. he looked like he was uh some sort of.

disability. He didn't he didn't look. full ticket if you know what I mean. And. I kind of like watched him walk past and. I remember it going bang behind me. And. I'm going to be honest with you. The. first thing I thought was [ __ ] man. I'm glad that whatever it is, I'm glad. it it wasn't me. That's my first. thought. I don't care what anyone said. I've suffered with this for a long time. Like I've been in a bunch of ID blasts. now. I've been blown up with suicide. bombers on three occasions. four or five. ID blasts in close proximity. And it. took me a long time to get over the fact. that the first thing I ever thought was, "Fucking hell, I'm glad it's not me.".

And I hate that. I hate that about me. I. hate that I felt like that, you know, like but it was I'll be honest. That's. how I felt. Um, luckily we were all. right. These the suicide vest was of. [ __ ] quality. It was it did more damage. to him than it did to anyone else. Um, but we took some fragmentation and some. some injuries. Um but nothing. catastrophic. Um everyone walking. wounded for the most part. But I mean a. lot of times they would use they would. they would they would use people with.

disabilities for that. Oh yeah. Of the three times I've been blown up. with suicide bombers. I think they're. all under the age of 15. Yeah. I. remember in 2005 they would uh line. bicycle tires with explosives. and have a kid ride up and and try to. blow it. When you're dealing with an en enemy. that's got that mentality, it's so so. difficult. It's Especially when your. hands are tied. Especially when your. hands are tied, you know, like as my. career progressed, the proximity between.

me and enemy forces is a [ __ ] hard. line for me. Like you'll get a warning. if there's time and it's appropriate. But if you come within proximity of me. in those situations, then you can stand. by because I know what's coming. Like I. don't need to be blown up again to to. learn those lessons. business what I'm. talking about. You have to transfer. experience, hardearned experience into. learning, you know, and sometimes that. that takes a little bit of adjustment in. the the mindset and the mentality that. you had um or have. But yeah, I.

certainly learned a lot. That was a good. deployment for me and good deployment in. terms of. learning my trade, cutting my teeth, so. to speak. Um and I got back from that. and I just wanted more. I wanted more. I. wanted more of it. I loved it. I was. like, that's exactly where I'm supposed. to be. Right at the end of the deployment, a. guy called Steph Moran, who was our S. major at the time, um, put out a thing. for wrecky troop. Wrecky troop in the.

Marines, especially four, five wrecky. Um, is considered to be like the top. level, you know, of Marines. There was a course normally you have to. go and do some horrific two week like. precourse to get on it but because we. were deployed he was like do you want to. go to wreck troop I was like yes sir and. he was like okay cool he goes I'm going. to put your name forward I'd had a good. deployment I'd worked hard I was a good. marine all the rest of it so I was like. okay cool I'm going to just put you on. the course so I came home from that. deployment I had about 6 weeks off leave.

post operational tour leave and I spent. all of that training I did not I didn't. go to Thailand I didn't do any of the. other stuff that everyone else was. I just trained and trained and trained. because I wanted to be a wrecky. operator. And I just ran and I ran and I. lifted and I ran and I lifted and I just. kept doing that until it got to the. point where. I was ready to go on on on the wrecky. course. And it was. probably about midway through I came. back one weekend I disappeared.

Um, and I got my came back and stayed. with my mom at the time and she's like, "Have you spoke to your girl, my. girlfriend at the time?" I was like, "No, I've not spoke to her." She goes, "You need to speak to her." I said, "Why? She's not pregnant, is she?" And. she just looked at me and she speak to. her. And I was like, so I speak to her. and she's like, "I'm pregnant." So I was. like, "Well, that [ __ ] changes things a. little bit, you know?" But it didn't. And and again, I regret this about. myself because I just absorbed it and.

dealt with it. If I was as good a father as I was a. Marine, I'd be perfect. But I wasn't. I. was a better marine than I was a father. And quite frankly, it came as a [ __ ]. shock. We did the whole thing. We were like, "Okay, cool. Let's let's make this work. Let's build a family." All the rest of. it. My whole time, I'm like, "I need to. get to Wreckit Troop. I need to deploy. I need to deploy. The war's still going. The bodies are still coming up the hill. I need to be back out there. And then. right towards the end of the course, they were at right who we need.

volunteers. And you know what it's like, Sean. Nobody volunteers for anything in. the military. Nothing good happens for. it. Like what's it for? Who wants to go. to 40 commando and deploy? Boom. I do. Cool. There you go. 40 commando. You're. going to go and deploy. Let's backtrack. for a minute. What's the wrecky platoon? So the wrecky platoon. Yes. Yes. And no. It's not primarily snipers. Well, not exclusively snipers. It's half. snipers, half wrecky operator. So, the. wrecky operator course covers all kinds.

of thing from um OP, so observation. post, subsurface, you know, not so much. technical stuff as it is probably these. days. It was very sort of rural digging. in like green army field soldiering, high levels of physical fitness, small. team tactics, um operating in front of. the main commando units to set up lines. of departure. We did a lot of work with. ropes and aerial access to to to to you. know cliff faces etc. Commando stuff. basically like they are the epitome of.

and it's all run by um raw marine. mountain leaders and I don't know if. you've ever come across Royal Marine. Mountain Leaders but it's a 9-month. course and I would argue that it's. probably the [ __ ] hardest course in. the British military even more so than. selection. Wow. It's ridiculously hard. Um they spend months in Norway, they. spend months climbing. They go to. Scotland. They do mountain training. Bergens are OP Bergens, so they've got. they're heavy. Um, but unlike selection, so on my selection of course, 220 people. started and we roughly finished with 20.

15 people might start that MLS course. and probably 13 people will pass because. it's a course. They want you to pass if. that makes sense. Whereas selection, they don't give a [ __ ] if you pass or. not until the end. So although it's. harder and longer in aspects, it's easier to pass because they want. you to be there, if that makes sense. Does that kind more forgiving? Yeah, it's more forgiving. It is more. forgiving. Yeah. Whereas selection. isn't. It's very cut and dry. Um, but. you're talking about the best field.

green army soldiers that I've ever seen. or worked with from any country bar. none. Like these guys are impressive. So. they're like the corporals and the. sergeants. Then underneath that you've. got all the wrecky guys uh sorry the. sniper guys and then you've got the. wrecky operators. So wrecky operators. natural progression is to be a mountain. leader. So that was my next step. but I never went that way. I went on the. selection route itself. So it's a small. platoon maybe 30 guys there or. thereabouts but they are the top 1% in.

that in that that unit. They're the. fittest. They got the best skill set. You know we spend a lot of time doing. map reading, navigation, military. knowledge. you name it, we were all over. it. But these are your like your true. believers, if you will. Like everybody. in that platoon or that troop really. wants to be there. And I've had to have. gone through some selection courses. inside of the Marines to get there. So. for me, I thought I was like I thought I. was like like SEAL team six. Do you know. what I mean? It's like we're wrecky. operators. Like you can slightly. different kit. Whenever we walked around. camp, everyone was like, "Oh, they're. the wrecky guys." Like it felt good, you.

know? It felt like it felt like we we we. were in a good spot. And what was good. about that troop is that every single. individual there was all pulling in the. same direction. Like you know what it's. like in a company. You might be in a. company with 100 people. Like some. people it's like a 9 to5 for them. For. these guys, every single guy in that. troop was, you know, dialed in. So when. we were about to receive orders for the. second deployment, it was like, we're. going to be doing some cool [ __ ] We're. wrecky troop, right? We must be doing. like driving around in the desert and. advance to ambushes and all this cool. stuff. Negative. They were like, you're.

going back to Sanging. You're going back. to a patrol base and it's just regular. stuff. So I was like, "Dude, why the [ __ ] have I just put. myself through all this [ __ ] to get. here to do a different job and now I'm. just doing the same [ __ ] job that I. was doing a year ago?" And literally, you could see from the patrol base that. I was in, you could see my old patrol. base, which was a good thing for me. because I had ground knowledge. I had. experience of the the terrain. But. things had taken a shift. 2008 2009, I. think we lost nine guys on that. deployment. Nine nine Royal Marine.

commandos died on that deployment. um. which is nine too many and it [ __ ]. affected all of us. But what happened in. the sec the second deployment was this. Yeah, no joke. It was a [ __ ] no joke. summer. So when we got into that that patrol. base, the the guys that we taken from. over were the rifles uh infantry unit. When they'd got there, they'd written. all of the names of the guys in the. sections, one section, two section, you. know, HQ. And when we got there, half of.

those names had had a line through them. They had all been they [ __ ] got. smashed to bits in those patrol bases. They were getting killed regularly. When we got there, you could just see in. their eyes the relief that this is done. and they were going home and we were. going out on familiarization patrols. where like they would take us and show. us the thing and you could just see that. there was just a nervousness that they. were not broken because they're infantry. and they're [ __ ] but they were hurt. and they were suffering.

So, I already knew, okay, cool. This is. not going to be like the last one. Um, and sure as hell, within a few days of. being there, we started to take. casualties and it pretty much ramped up. from there. The first one we took was a. guy called Jace. We were building, fortifying or rebuilding a position on. the roof in the day. Questionable, but. we had to. I was behind the GMG, you. know, the um automatic grenade launcher. thing. So, I'm behind that 40 mic. We're. just sighting in building the sandbags.

just about to come off and go back down. at sort of last light and I just hear. one round. and I hear a scream. and then I hear a man down and I'm like. [ __ ] And then it was like medic. So. what had happened again this is. super fortunate. It basically what had. happened. He's the only and people say. he couldn't have been the He was the. only guy in that troop that wore side. plates. The only [ __ ] dude. It hit.

the top of his side plate and then. ricocheted up underneath of his tricep. and blew him off the roof. He survived. He came back. He went back to Camp. Bastion for a few weeks and then got. back in the fight. And I look back at. that now and I'm like, that's [ __ ]. hardcore. How do you get shot like that. off a roof by a sniper and then two 3. weeks later you're back on patrol? Like. that's commando. That's what being a. commando is about. But unfortunately for. the guys that had engaged my mate, they. didn't realize that I was still up there.

because there was a cabinet and I was. underneath the cabinet. So I'm just like a cool rack it and. [ __ ] start sending it with this 40 m. mic. And I [ __ ] every firing point, every position that could have been. there, I was just sending it one two. shot. Boom boom boom boom. Good, mate. And uh after about a box and a half, the. troop commander came up and he's like, "Remember courageous restraint? Courageous restraint. I'm at Yeah, roger. I ped the firing point." Which. they are. They're likely firing points.

Suppression of enemy likely firing. points. It's doctrinal. It's what you're. supposed to do. So we did and then there was a whole. gunfight that went on. They started to. attack the our patrol base for multiple. firing points. The second patrol base. down the road, they started getting. smashed. This whole thing on for about. an hour and uh we'd only been there a. few days. This was like within the first. week and uh I'm up on the roof getting. it. Like I'm just [ __ ] sending it, you know. And uh everyone else is like. the patrol base has become a porcupine. Barrels everywhere, you know, just. sending it. And uh eventually, this is. funny. Eventually the Kazvak came in,

right? So the Kazvak's coming. Everyone's new in theater, so we're all. still trying to figure it out and, you. know, all the rest of it. So, they drive. these vehicles down cuz you couldn't put. you couldn't put a helicopter where we. were. It was there was no place safe to. land it. So, you'd have to do it by by. road, then get in the helicopter. So, the S major and everyone else comes. back in these vehicles. We call them. jackals and they come driving down the. hill and, you know, into the patrol. base. And as soon as they get in the. patrol base, you know, on the the the. dispensers of flares, you know, for the. FOS smoke so they can smoke the somehow. he pressed the wrong button. He disarmed.

it or armed it, whatever he done, but he. fired out foss all over the patrol base. So, you've got this scene, right? I'm on. the roof in just a pair of shorts and. body armor. Everyone's shooting. everything everywhere. There's a dude. down there who's a casualty. The cavalry. comes and then fosses the entire patrol. base. Like, this is a small patrol base, okay? And I'm in the camet's on fire. Like, everything's going on. And my. mate, who ended up being in the. squadron, a different squadron to me, but he went on selection as well. This. is his first deployment. He's like belly.

crawling up to me with another box of. ammunition. And I looked at him and I. was like, I told you it was going to be. like this. He looked at me, he goes, I. don't [ __ ] like it. And I was like, I. know. And we carried on sending it. But. I'll I'll never forget that. Like the. whole everyone's just [ __ ] It was. good. It was good because it was like. bang. All right, fellas. Reality check. This is what it's going to be like. And. it didn't slow down. It It really. didn't. And um yeah, it wasn't it wasn't. that long after that the um our troop. sergeant. guy called Lee, he got hit. Again, this.

is quite another funny story. They went. out to a patrol a place called Cemetery. Hill. They went out um got caught out on. a forward facing slope and got ambushed. Um and he was pinned down. He got shot. through the face, shot through the arm, shot through the leg. Um and was. basically in the open and couldn't move. Um and the guys were trying to get to. him. It wasn't my half's patrol day. I. was back in the patrol base on sentry. Um, but I was the d, you know, designated quad driver. So, it was my. responsibility to go and pick up this. casualty. So, I go tearing out the gate.

on this quad. Troop commanders out. screaming at me to stop that, you know, slow down and do the metal detector. thing. And I'm like, "Fuck that. Let's. go." Do you know what I mean? And. eventually I did stop. We got there and we had a litter on the. back of the quad trailer and I I drove. up to the collection point and they put. they put him on a stretcher and then. they put that stretcher on the back of. the trailer on top of another stretcher. Does that make sense? So it's not what. you should be doing and obviously. they're at Jay go. So I'm at copy. So. I'm now [ __ ] driving this quad as. fast as I can. I remember going over. this bump like that and thinking oh [ __ ].

I forgot there's there's a casualty on. the back. It's my troop sergeant and. he's like a gnarly old dude. Do you know. what I mean? And I stopped, slammed the. brakes on, and look around. And he's. stood vertically at this point. He's. fallen off. He's bumped off the thing. He stood vertically, still strapped to. the litter, like ankles, like thighs and. chest. He's just stood there looking at. me going, "You [ __ ] slow down." And. I was like, "Fuck yeah, I'm so I was I. was embarrassed. I was sorry." I was. like, "Fuck, I'm so sorry, mate." Like,

please. Like, and the medic's on the. floor and it's just a whole [ __ ] [ __ ]. show. And uh he was like, "You did more. damage to me throwing me off the back of. that quad than that Giza with the PKM. did." And I was I never left. I felt we. we've addressed this afterwards cuz I. did feel really bad for a long time. But. um yeah, funny. And um I mean this. deployment you did you experienced 160. gunfights in 3 months. Am I correct? No. 160 gunfights in one day on election. day. That was in one 24-hour period. Our. company group and satellite and call.

signs. 160 contacts recorded in one day. the elections in one day which sounds. impossible but it wasn't and we were. handed so when holy [ __ ] the back end of. that torch Sean we handed over to the US. Marine Corps and when that 37. combat team combat team 37 or 35 I can't. remember which one it was but when the. US Marine Corps came in those boys were. not [ __ ] playing games and it was. good to see because they were like we. ain't doing courageous restraint we're. doing [ __ ] extreme violence and we.

were. [ __ ] yeah. Um, but yeah, that 160. recorded contacts within a 24-hour. period on election day. So, right at the. back, it was literally the last thing. that we did on deployment. It was they. were having local elections and it was. the first time that they had local. elections in Sangin for since the. Taliban took over, I'd imagine. Um, how. do you even have enough ammo for that? It was everywhere all day. Just all. different. There was probably about five. or six platoon on the ground plus the. patrol base itself plus the the main FOB.

and it was just all day just sporadic. all day. Were you getting them. resupplied? So we were out in a field. So check this out. Right. So they put. wrecky platoon out as a blocking force. So we were like 400 m away from the. actual main patrol base itself. And. again when people talk about what it. means to serve and what it means to. serve the United States of America. Um, and the the the bond that I've got, we [ __ ] told them, "Dude, we said, do. not go in that compound." We went out.

together. There's a US Marine Corps. patrol and our patrol. Our job was to. literally go out and provide a blocking. service or a blocking screening service. And we [ __ ] told them, "Do not. [ __ ] go. Badger 10. Don't go in that. compound. It's a known firing point. It's [ __ ] rigged. Do not go there.". And they were like, "We got orders, brother." And I was like, "Do. your thing." And they went out there and. sure as [ __ ] they [ __ ] got blown up, dude. There was like [ __ ] two dead, I. think, and three or four lost limbs. And. initially, we were just helping out on. the Kazak. I'll never forget it was just. like an endless supply of just [ __ ]. people just coming back on stretches and.

we were just taking just doing what we. could. Like I [ __ ] carried Marines. off the battlefield and they [ __ ]. come and got me when I really needed it. on multiple occasions. Like that US flag. when I had the [ __ ] privilege of. wearing that to war means the world to. me, Sean. And I'd [ __ ] die for that. as soon as I die for my flag, you know? But those young lads, mate, they [ __ ]. those young lads. I was one, too. You. know, that was a [ __ ] hard day. That. was just the morning. That was before. the whole thing [ __ ] got going. I'll. never forget it as well. We're in these. cornfields on these blocking positions.

And it was like, you just see like twos. and threes. The whole platoon had just. been [ __ ] decimated. It was like an. IED went off, killed a bunch of dudes, then the [ __ ] Kazak, the guys that. went in to get them, they got [ __ ]. blown up. Then all hell broke loose. And. it was just like. once we'd started to f the stretches. back, we went back to man our positions. and it was like something out of. Jurassic Park, man. You see these. [ __ ] corn fields and it was just like. you could see the [ __ ] the [ __ ]. the leaves moving, you know? And we're. on the guns like I need to [ __ ] like.

something's getting [ __ ] shot in a. minute. I'm [ __ ] scared. Do you know. what I mean? And uh a [ __ ] squad. would come out or two or three guys and. just be like, "Have you seen like you. know this guy or that platoon?" And. we're like, "Where the [ __ ] have you. been, bro?" and he's like, "Your guys. are back there." And he's like, "Okay, cool." And they just run out. 10 minutes. later, there'd be like a lone marine. just coming out the [ __ ] cornfield. You're like, "I don't know what the. [ __ ] going on over there, but this is. not a good spot for them to be in." And. uh yeah, we just [ __ ] hunkered down. That was the first time I've got. properly morted as well. Like people. talk about, oh, you know, I watched I.

think you'll find a generational. difference between Gwatt guys that. didn't do conventional tours and guys. that did do conventional tours. Like I. know the difference between being morted. and properly being morted. like in front. of you like 50 m 60 m which is [ __ ]. close for an 81 or whatever they're. using. Then one comes behind you, you're like, "Okay, cool. We're being bracketed." The. next one's [ __ ] coming into our. position and sure as [ __ ] we're in this. field getting morted and it's like. that's no joke. Like we're in a [ __ ]. field. There is no cover and troop troop.

sergeants like [ __ ] digging and we're. like what what is this the [ __ ] you. know what I mean? This Euima like I. didn't think war [ __ ] fighting was. like this. Do you know what I mean? which was not what we were [ __ ] used. to doing. So, sure as [ __ ] we dug shell. scrapes and we've I've got some great. pictures of it. All the boys in shell. scrapes and we [ __ ] dug shell. scrapes. And then we started getting. more What do you mean shell scrapes? Like a like a a small hole in the ground. to lie into basically just below. subsurface so that if it does detonate, it goes at ground level and you're just. underneath it. The first ones we did. were quite shallow, but when we started.

to get in incoming accurate mortifier, we were like, "Oh [ __ ] we need to. [ __ ] dig these in a bit deeper." And. I'll never forget like me and this guy. Gaz, we were sat in this shell scrape. lying in there just laughing like we're. going home in two days. This the. election day, this the whole day that. I'm talking about was literally the last. thing that we did. And it was like I. cannot [ __ ] believe after 6 months. we're in this [ __ ] hole in this field. getting [ __ ] morted. It's like come. on. Do you know what I mean? This is no. joke. But I'll remember it again. Goes. back to the thing of respecting the US.

military. We had a cowboy call sign. was. it was a cobra and a Huey pair and they. were [ __ ] smashing the mortar point. and uh we're in this shell scraping this. cornfield just [ __ ] hunkered down. getting morted and this [ __ ]. helicopter comes over with its partner. and they're just [ __ ] strafing just. like like rockets 12.7 mm rockets or. whatever they are [ __ ] 30 m Mike mic. whatever they got on there and the. [ __ ] shells are landing all around. oppos we're just laughing at each other. at this point we're just like [ __ ] it. like this is [ __ ] cool but it's not.

cool if you know what I mean it's like. but we we liked it we're Marines what. we're supposed to be doing, you know. But yeah, if it weren't for those dudes. turning up that day, [ __ ] knows what. would have happened. But. that was the end of a really, really. severe tour. And I'll tell you what, the. worst thing I don't want, you know, the. worst thing for us, mate, was that every. single time an ID went off, it was a [ __ ] good chance it was. somebody, you know, you know, like, and. that radio never [ __ ] in 80 days, I. think it was like something 82 days or. whatever it was, we lost 14 people. Um, and they were all the same guys. We knew.

everybody. We're wrecky troop, you know, we knew everyone. And it was like you. you hear the [ __ ] blast, man. They're. so close. You feel it. That [ __ ]. awful sound. And you're just like, "Okay, cool." And then the radio, it's. like, "Yeah, contact ID." And then it's. like the state of the casualties like. what what tier they are. You hear the. miss reports coming on and it's like. you're just listening out for that zap. number. You're like, "I know a guy in. six troop." And you're just like, you're just listening for that zap. number. You're just listening for that. [ __ ] name and just being like, "Is it. him?" And it it might not affect you.

that day because it might not be. somebody, but then you see a guy in the. corner of the patrol base and he's just. [ __ ] in floods of tears cuz that was. his best mate, you know? That was his. [ __ ] mate. So yeah, we we were. [ __ ] we were surrounded, man. We. [ __ ] we were [ __ ] in a bad spot. And uh it was it was heartbreaking to. watch and feel and listen to it. And. that [ __ ] radio never stopped, man. It never never stopped. And I just. wanted to go home. I got before I.

deployed, my daughter was two weeks old. Two weeks old. I remember just as we got. to Camp Bastion, before we flew out to that patrol base, there were two guys that were from 45. Commando that had done exactly what I. did. And uh they. they went to um they went to 40. Commando, too. And I remember I didn't. even know these guys, man. And we were. sat eating our [ __ ] lunch doing the. like the pre-eployment training that you. do in theater like zeroing weapons and. [ __ ] all this [ __ ] getting briefs. and all this [ __ ] stuff. ROE briefs.

whatever. And there was just three of us. in this like basically in this like. [ __ ] shell of a compound having. lunch. It was oh I was at 4. I was oh. [ __ ] I was at 4 and there was three of. us. I'm the only one that came home. They [ __ ] both died, you know. It's. like [ __ ] Brand new baby, two weeks. old. Like the writing's on the wall. I'm. like I'm not coming back from this. deployment. I'd given up. I knew it was. coming. Like, I'm not a super religious man, Sean, but. every time I left that [ __ ] patrol. base, I prayed because it doesn't matter.

how good you are, we were getting. [ __ ] ripped apart. And it was [ __ ]. dangerous and it was scary and I was. [ __ ] scared. I was scared for 6. months. And then it's like. one of the most significant things. that's ever happened to me in my. military career is I was about from me. to that wall away when an ID blast went. off my troop troop commander lost both. his legs on the arm. I was the first guy. to get to him. And there's a there's a. protocol for this. You're supposed to do. the metal detector [ __ ] and go up to it. and you know make sure there's no I just. [ __ ] ran straight to him and just. started putting on him and I was just.

like I remember his eyes. I was I was up. at his head. The Tom the medic was. working on him and I was just I was just. holding him. I had a flashlight on. It. was early on in the morning. We It was a [ __ ] 400 meter patrol. Sean. We 400 meters. Do you know what we. were doing? Do you know what they made. us do? They made us [ __ ] hand out a. radio. He lost both his legs on the arm. to hand out a [ __ ] wind up radio to a. local that we thought was friendly. Hearts and minds, they said. So, we go. out at [ __ ] 5:00 in the morning near. pitch back in a [ __ ] minefield and he.

lose his arms and legs for a [ __ ]. radio, you know. I was so angry, mate. I. was so [ __ ] angry. And uh I remember. looking at him and I remember him trying. to close his eyes and I was saying, "John, just [ __ ] look at me." And I. put this [ __ ] flashlight in his face. and I'm just like, "Do not [ __ ] close. your eyes. Do not [ __ ] close your. eyes." And we got him out and he he he's. still. he's like [ __ ] incredible. He's got. kids. He's got a [ __ ] life. He's a.

[ __ ] incredible kayaker. He's. represented his country in that. He's. got this [ __ ] incredible story. He. goes around the country motivating. people. Like, what a [ __ ] hero. What. a [ __ ] rockstar. But I I'll never. forgive them for putting us in those. positions cuz it's like we know this is. [ __ ] Why the [ __ ] are we going out. there, you know? And yeah, that that. there made me [ __ ] angry. I was like, "No, I'm not [ __ ] I'm coming back.". Like, a lot of people went the other.

way. Most people left the Marines after. that deployment. I didn't. Maybe there's. something [ __ ] wrong with me, but I. was like, "Nah, I'm [ __ ] joining the. special forces. I want to be [ __ ]. part of that." And one of the main. reasons for that was halfway through. because we were getting smashed. The. squadron, the regiment squadron, D. squadron, sent a guy out to our position. to give us fire support to bring the. assets, the you know, so he embedded. himself with our troop. And this guy was. like an older guy. Super wiry northern,

you know, not what you'd expect a. regiment guy to look like, but [ __ ] me, he was the most impressive [ __ ]. person I'd ever met. He was like a. [ __ ] superstar. You don't come across. regiment guys, especially not if you're. in the Marines. It's not something that. you don't operate together. And he came into those patrol bases and. he wore the same [ __ ] kit that we. wore with no airs and graces. You'd be. like that. He's a sergeant in the in the. [ __ ] regiment and I'm at I'm at. marine two IC of a troop and I'm doing.

like lists for who has to go on sentry. and he's like what time do you want me. on? And I'm like what? Like you don't. have to do this. He's like no put me on. there 2 to 3 2 2:00 in the morning. He's. out there in the [ __ ] sentry position. doing it. Came on every patrol. He's. like, "Give me some link. Give me a. battery." And I was like, "Fucking. hell." He did not need to do that. He. did not have to do that. But I was like, "That's the gold standard. That's the. [ __ ] epitome of what I think a. [ __ ] regiment guy should be like. And. he actually, it's quite a nice story. He. gave me a um recruitment brief in the. the main patrol base uh back in Sangin.

And it was for Heraford. And typically. Royal Marines don't go to Heraford, they. go to Paul, the SPS. So they don't go to. the SCS, they go to SPS, typically not. always, but I always wanted to join a. regiment. I'd always been fascinated by. the regiment since I watched the VHS. copy of the Iranian embassy siege from. my dad actually when I was about 10. years old. That was the first time I'd. ever really seen it. And I was like, "What the fuck?" The dude's on the. balcony with a gas mask. I was like, "Whatever that is, I want that." But. this is the first time I've ever met one. in the flesh and he's a [ __ ]. rockstar, you know. And uh he gave me. the recruitment brief and I remember I.

went back to my chew on my. accommodation. I packed a Bergen with. £55, which is test weight, and I did a. CFT, which is an 8 mileer basically just. perimeter the thing. Just kept doing. that and doing that. From that moment. on, I was like, I'm going on selection. And I've heard somebody else say this. and it must be a fairly common thing, but I remember sitting one night on one. of those sentry positions and it was. [ __ ] super late and I hear two 47s. going to the green zone and you know. what a 47 sounds like and I was like. well that's not us and that's our. [ __ ] AO so what the [ __ ] is it? And.

then all hell breaks loose. you hear the. [ __ ] gunship going and all kinds of. [ __ ] and then 2 three hours [ __ ]. 247s come in and they fly away and I was. like got back off and what I was like. yeah that's one of the squadrons gone. and done a [ __ ] an offensive action. on on a target. Just for everybody. listening 47s are dual rotor. helicopters. Yeah the shinooks the CH47s. you know the big fat ones you know with. the with a with a double thing. Sorry. Yeah, but yeah. So I was like okay these. people are getting after it. Do you know. what I felt in that deployment when. they're [ __ ] helpless. I felt. helpless. I was like [ __ ] running.

around in my fields [ __ ] watching. people get blown off. It's like I wanted. to affect it and the only place that I. could affect it was what it felt like. was to was to go on selection and join. the squadron. How did you adjust your. mindset from the from the beginning of. that deployment to the end to deal with. all that? I didn't deal with it. I just boxed it up. Just [ __ ]. compartmentalized it. It's all I could. do. And it wasn't.

10 years down the line, it [ __ ] blew. up. I got blown up again. Another suicide. bomber. And uh I was actually with um. with C Squadron at the time from the. unit. Yeah. From the unit. Yeah. I was. attached to them for a year and I. remember getting blown up one night. outside of a building watching my whole. team basically just get [ __ ]. whole building went on top of them. I. was [ __ ] for sure everyone was dead. Turns out that everyone survived. It was. one of those [ __ ] P fiction moments, you know? I mean, we talk about that in. a bit more detail later, but like that.

that blew the lid off the [ __ ] box. basically. Like that after that I just. unraveled slowly but surely unraveled to. the point of. Yeah. to a [ __ ] dark place. But for 10 years, I just didn't look. Forgot about it. Just carried on. Just. keep going. One more deployment. One. more deployment. One more deployment. Just keep putting in the box. Put it in. the box. put it in a box. Box gets full, box breaks, I broke.

But um yeah, to answer your question, I. didn't deal with it. I just [ __ ]. carried on. What else got to do? Like I. kept running. I kept running because I. knew if I stopped and looked back, I. wouldn't [ __ ] I'd never stop. Never. start again, you know? I came back from that deployment and. it's like. even even coming back on R&R man I went. back to the the main patrol base and a. dear friend of mine who I was in.

training with a recruit we were recruits. together a guy called Rian everyone. calls him Twe dead skinny guy he was a. machine gunner he was a [ __ ] you know. what I mean a good machine gunner I. remember our patrol base you had to go. back to the big base because that's. where the helicopters were and that's. how he flew back and went on R&R so I. was out of my patrol base and into the. big base, relieved as [ __ ] 4 months. into the deployment, handed in all the [ __ ] necessary. equipment. I've just got basic. ammunition, my rifle, about to fly, and. in 24 hours I'm home in the UK with my.

brand new daughter that I've [ __ ]. spent 2 weeks with, right? And they go out on patrol and we're sat. in um the the sort of chow hall, which. was a tent, and the first one goes off. Boom. And you're like, "Yep, that's a. [ __ ] IED." And then everyone's up. QRF are out. The [ __ ] whole place is. going. And we're on RNR, so we've not. really got a job to do at this point. And I was with a couple of other guys. and we were like, "Fuck it. Let's get. our body armor on and get on the wall.". Everyone's on the wall now. Everyone's. shooting from the wall. We're trying to. provide fire support. About a couple of. minutes later, boom, second one goes.

off. This was a joint patrol, US Marine. Corps, um, and guys from Charlie. Company. Um, and they went out. First ID. struck command, uh, command wire. They. waited for the guys to come in and try. and recover the casualties and then they. [ __ ] pulled the next one. So, we lost. two guys that day, a US Marine, uh, and. and a guy called Jonathan Krooks. And. initially, we started fighting from the. wall. Like, dude, I'm going home in. [ __ ] 24 hours. I'm on the wall now. fighting. And then it was like, we need. [ __ ] people to help bring the.

casualties in. And I, again, I feel. guilty for it. I was like, I hope it's. not [ __ ] Twiggy. And I knew it wasn't. cuz I could hear his [ __ ] machine gun. going. I was like, yeah, he's all right. He's [ __ ] sending it. So, I'm like, [ __ ] yeah. And uh then we go to the back. gate and we're just carrying the bodies. We're just carrying these [ __ ] dudes. back into the um back into the medbay. basically where they're getting treated. And there's four or five different. casualties, different categories of. categories. You've got like ones that. are clearly. no longer with us and then other guys. that are all [ __ ] fragged up and all. the rest of it. And I remember clearly.

and I never I still can't get my [ __ ]. head around this. like we we we put the. guys in in um stretchers and in in the. bags and. the [ __ ] dude in the med center, I. don't know what his problem was, but. he's like, "They've got to go on head. first." And I'm like, "Dude, it don't. [ __ ] matter." And he's like, "They. got to go on head first. That's the way. the helicopters are set up to deal with. casualties." And I'm like, "I [ __ ]. get it. I know, but it doesn't make a.

difference. Do you understand what I'm. saying?" And he's like, they've got and. I'm [ __ ] this [ __ ] I'm I don't. know what what I don't know what [ __ ]. what ends the head and what's not the. [ __ ] head. You know what I mean? How. the [ __ ] am I supposed to do? You know. what I mean? When open the [ __ ] I. have this [ __ ] two and throw. And we. and we put the guys on on on the we put. the guys on the [ __ ] helicopter. Everyone goes away, go and sit back down. and they're like R&R flight's coming in. in 2 hours and you're like now what the. [ __ ] do you do? 24 hours later, I'm at.

[ __ ] Bri Norton with a brand new baby. in my [ __ ] I'm like I was not ready. I was not ready to be a [ __ ] dad. I. was not ready to deal with that. I just wasn't ready. And I [ __ ]. isolated myself because the only place I. felt like I could have any control was. being on operation, which is a weird one. because I was helpless there, if that. makes sense. But it was a it was a it. was a pain that I knew. Do you know what. I mean? It came home. H it became home. It became home. It became what I knew. It was so intense for me that.

I gravitated towards it. It was easier. to be a [ __ ] marine in that field. than it was to try and learn how to be a. dad. I got no template on how to be a. dad. How the [ __ ] do I know how to do. that? You know what I mean? You're. talking to me about washing machines. Like, how the [ __ ] do I care if the. washing machine's not broken? We got to. go grocery shopping. The [ __ ] Like, that's where I'm at with it. I didn't. [ __ ] I was unc uncapable or incapable of. acting like a [ __ ] normal human being. because my brain was not there. It was.

in that [ __ ] field. And. it took years. to [ __ ] to to sort that out, you. know? And I'm not I don't think I'm ever. over it, but I'm at peace with it now. Um to a point. But that deployment there. was your mind was your mind. I mean did you have any emotional. connection to your daughter after after. experiencing that?

Other than the fact I loved her. Not really. And I hate I hate myself. I do. Um, it. was really hard to build that bond, you. know? I [ __ ] I was a shitty [ __ ]. dad for a long time, you know? I I just didn't know how to do it. I. didn't If I was as [ __ ] good a dad as. I was an operator, I'd be [ __ ]. perfect. But I wasn't. And I'm not. And.

you know, that [ __ ] young girl did 10. deployments. 10 [ __ ] deployments she. did, you know? And I look at her now and. I'm so [ __ ] proud of her. I'm so. impressed. She's got such grace and. kindness about her. And I look at Yeah. And that's why when, you know, that's why when some of the. stuff that's happened to me recently, I. look at it and I'm like, you know what? [ __ ] you for putting me in this position. for her. You know, she deserves better. than that. She does. You know, there's. still a piece of me in that field. There's a piece of my soul that will.

never come out of that [ __ ] field. And I'm sorry for her that she had to. miss that. But I hope, you know, she sees this and. grows up. I did that for her. I pro I. want to protect her, you know, and she. was [ __ ] she kept me going, dude. Like, do you want to mention her name? No, for. some reasons that we've talked about. before. I understand that. Yeah. Changed. H. When did you start your bond. with your daughter?

It took a couple of years. Took a couple. of years to start to build back up. But. did you feel guilt? Yeah, still do a. lot. You know, for guys like us, there's a. prescription, right? It's like there's. the problem, there's the solution when. it comes to emotional stuff. And you. know that there's I I don't have I don't. have a template. I don't have a.

reference point. I don't know what being. a good dad looks like. Not to say I. didn't have a good dad. I just didn't. really have that in my life, you know? I. just hope, pray. that one day she'll grow up and go, "Okay, cool. That's what my dad was. about. That's why he was there. That's. why I missed the birthday. That's why I. missed the football match, the. Christmas, whatever it might be." You. know, because. I felt like I was trying to do something. good. I was trying to make sense of a. [ __ ] hopeless, chaotic situation. And.

the only thing I could do to stop myself. from drowning was go back to war cuz the. only thing I knew. And it's just, yeah, it's a shame that. she's had to do that, but I just and I. think, you know, she's her mother's. fantastic with her. Like, she's I've. never had any problems with my mother, my daughter's mother in terms of like. when I'm away, I always know that home's. being taken care of, and I'll always be. [ __ ] grateful to those women for. that. You know, my daughter's mother is. a [ __ ] exceptional mother, and she's.

had to deal with a [ __ ] ton. It can't be. easy watching. your daughter with her father on RNR. staring at [ __ ] bodies coming up the. hill. Like, and I was there for every. one of them when I was on RNR. Like, that's a [ __ ] intense place to be. And she's [ __ ] ridden that storm. And. I want to say this and I want that. hundreds thousands of families have been. through that from the British army. So. when people say we didn't fight this or. we do that, like that [ __ ] upsets me, Sean, because we [ __ ] paid in blood.

in those fields and we fought side by. side with the US military and will. always continue to do that. And if it. wasn't for them, I wouldn't be here. And. if it wasn't for, you know, the support. and the coalition and. the brotherhood. that British and US soldiers have, I. wouldn't be here. And I [ __ ] damn. sure know a lot of other people wouldn't. too, you know. But there's a lot of. families, you know, the Afghan. generation have [ __ ] paid a heavy. heavy price and they don't get enough.

credit. Everyone wants to see special. forces dudes with night vision and panov. vision doing [ __ ] fast roping and all. the sexy stuff. I'm here for it. I. [ __ ] love that [ __ ] trust me. But. what about that [ __ ] young Marine who. got shot off a wall? What about him? They deserve more credit. Like, I'm. going to be honest with you right now. Like nothing I did in special forces was. anything like as dangerous as that. Imagine going on a 10-hour patrol in the. day with no assets, no [ __ ] dedicated.

Jac, no ISR, no Gucci weapon systems, no. night night vision, no tactical. advantage and [ __ ] backbreaking. [ __ ] loads in 45°ree heat for 6. months in a minefield. with a shitty roe and [ __ ] no. experience for the most part. That's harder. Those guys deserve more. credit. All right. It's not sexy. Everyone wants to know about the big. [ __ ] mesh and all the cool [ __ ] but. what about those [ __ ] dudes, you. know? So, I try and talk to that more.

because it's like. I think about that all the time. You do? I do. And um I I remember I interviewed. this guy, friend of mine, Cody Alfred, who's a Marine. Yeah. Is he a dude with. a tail on his neck? Is that him? He's. got tattoos everywhere. That's the dude. I do know the dude. Yeah. I don't know. him but I know what you mean. But um. when he described his experience in. Fallujah. very very similar and uh I think he.

would say the same thing that you just. said about conventional guys and they. don't get enough credit. No. And they. don't get the recognition that they. deserve. and they have it harder than everybody. [ __ ] yeah they do. with less gear, with. less training, everything. Yeah, man. I see some of these guys now and I'm. just like, I'm so [ __ ] proud of them. I am. I'm. so [ __ ] proud of them.

Such strength those guys had. You know, you know, you're looking at 19year-old. kids dealing with that [ __ ] And that's. that deployment isn't the end of it. You. got to go and live 30 40 50 60 70 years. after that, you know, and. nothing. nothing can take that away. And people. will go, "You're all Marines. You joined. to go to war." [ __ ] yeah, we did. And we. did a [ __ ] good job at doing it. And. we were [ __ ] impressive.

But there is a price to it. There is a. consequence to it. You know, most guys left after that deployment. I didn't. And I'm glad I didn't cuz if I. had, then I probably would have ended up. taking my own life like my friend did. and a bunch of other people I know. Cuz. that's what happens, Sean. They they. stay in those fields and they don't they. don't ever deal with it. And then all of. a sudden they just put their uniforms. on, put their medals on, and they. [ __ ] hang themselves. Is that what your friend did? Yeah.

Ash, he did that. Yeah. There's There's too many of them, man. This [ __ ] feels like one a week. at some point. These [ __ ] guys aren't. getting no support, bro. I know. They're. just [ __ ] not getting enough support. And it's. Is that the first friend that you lost. was suicide? The first one that I allowed myself to. feel any pain for yet, if that makes. sense. I've lost a bunch.

And again, it goes back to the same. patrol base like mentality. It's like it. might not be somebody that I know well, but I know somebody that does. And it. echoes through our community. Like it. reverberates. And they're [ __ ] still doing it, dude. They're [ __ ] They're still. doing it. They're [ __ ] killing. themselves. And it's like, [ __ ] I don't. I don't know how. to get my head around that, you know? It's like. me and my best friend who were my best. friend was way closer to Ash than I was,

but we were all recruits together and it. [ __ ] nearly killed him because he. felt guilty about it. He was phoning him. that day. They were fine. Everything was. all good. Checking up on him. Everything's good. He goes home, puts his uniform on, puts. his medals on, puts his berry on, hangs. himself in the garage. that nearly [ __ ] killed my friend, you know. I'm sorry. Me, too. I'm sorry.

But it's that's the reality of it, you. know. And and I don't know what to say. I I don't. We went to his grave uh not long ago. His son's there. How the [ __ ] do you spell him up? How. How have that conversation? You know, it's [ __ ] difficult. Those young Marines deserve more credit. I think, you know, they deserve more. They deserve more support from our.

government, from our veterans minister, from all of it. That war's not done. Still going. They're just fighting in their own heads. now, you know. But it's across the board, isn't it? It's not just us. It's not just the. Marines. It's not just the Brits or the. Americans or Swedes or, you know, Norwegians or the Danish or the. Estonians or everyone else that paid. into that thing. I mean, obviously the. Brits and the Americans, Canadians, it's everybody that had to experience. it. It's everyone that experienced it,

not just the [ __ ] cool guys with. Panovision and [ __ ] Blacks, you know? I think we should do better and we. should pay more credit to these guys. because it's [ __ ] real. That's my. opinion on it. Thank you for saying. that. No, don't thank me, Sean. It's. fine. I thank them, you know. And that that deployment galvanized me. It didn't break me at the time. It's not. broken me now. It [ __ ] set a. foundation of solid concrete that I. built a [ __ ] mansion on. You.

understand? Like, I [ __ ] wanted it. It didn't deter me. It motivated me. I. was like, "No, I'm never going to. [ __ ] feel helpless again. Next time. it's on my terms. I'm coming to your. house at night. I'm gonna be in your. [ __ ] bedroom and you'll not have a. clue that I'm there. That's the kind of. mentality that I took from him. I don't know if that's a positive thing. If psychiatrist would probably go, "Yeah, we need a [ __ ] chat." But it. worked for me. That's what I did. I put. it all in a [ __ ] box and was like,

"All right, cool. I'm going to use that. for fuel. I'm going to use that for. motivation. That's my reactor, you know, and that's why I decided to to to go on. selection. I wanted to have an impact. and effect. And. I think it's very important that this is. said. UKSF's primary objective as far as I. read it and we were briefed in. Afghanistan was to provide security and. to [ __ ] stop these people killing. British troops. I've been in those.

fields. I know what it's like. So now. I'm motivated for it. We were trying to. protect the British army. Every single. one of those guys in those squadrons. knew somebody in the Marines, knew. somebody in the parachute regiment was. affected by it. They're watching their. mates get killed, mutilated. You know, we [ __ ] wanted to have an effect. That's what we did. We had an effect and. we were professional as [ __ ] when we did. it. And it was such a cool thing to be a. part of because it really did feel like. we were making a difference there, you.

know? So when I see all this [ __ ]. these [ __ ] allegations unfounded. about this and that, questioning. professionalism, it [ __ ] upsets me. Sean, I saw nothing but professionalism. I saw nothing but. dedicated professionals doing the right. thing for the right reasons. And it's. disgusting how people are trying to turn. that and make that look like it's. something else cuz it wasn't that, you. know. But again, yeah, that's digress. slightly. But yeah, I think that does.

need to be said. and that was a massive motivator for me. There's a difference between revenge and. retribution, isn't there? Revenge is is. is revenge. Retribution is the rightful. and lawful, you know, action towards something that's been. done. It's not revenge, it's. retribution. That's the difference. And. we were out there in the squadrons. trying to do what we could to protect. those [ __ ] guys in the patrol bases.

That 19year-old, we're trying to [ __ ] do whatever we. can. And yes, we are going to bring all. the [ __ ] toys to the party. All our. gunships, all our [ __ ] sexy night. vision, all of our [ __ ] ISR assets, our jets, our dogs, our charges, our. experience. [ __ ] yeah, we are. And we're. coming for you. We're coming to get you, you know. And that was the only thing. that kept me sane. That's how I dealt with it. I doubled. down. I didn't go the other way, you. know? But um yeah,

I talk a lot about that 2010 tour on. this because it [ __ ] affected me more. than anything else I've ever done and it. changed my life and it still does. I. told John the guy with who stepped on. the ID that I was coming on here and I. said, "Can I mention you?" And he said, "Yeah." He said he was he was [ __ ]. proud. He does speaking engagements. He. goes around the country. My friend. bumped into him randomly. He said he. mentioned me by name. That's my that's.

my proudest chief. playing a small part in saving that. man's life that day. No one's ever taken. that away from me, you know. How's he. doing? He's [ __ ] thriving. He's doing really, really well. Yeah, he's like a I think he's representing. Great Britain in the kayaking. He's a. mad kayaker. I'll show you afterwards, mate. He's such an incredible [ __ ]. dude. Positive. He's got kids since that. happened. Wow. Yeah. He's [ __ ] living.

life to the full, man. I'm not I'm not a. [ __ ] good person, man. Well, I could. be better, but like I made every mistake. a guy my age can make, probably more. than once. And there's a lot of [ __ ]. I've done in my life I'm not [ __ ]. proud of. But I'm proud of that, you. know? I'm proud of that. There's a. there's a person out there that's. living. There's a person out there. that's a father. There's a person out. there that's enjoying their life. And I. had a very, very small part to play in.

that. And. I like to remind myself of that. sometimes when I feel a bit [ __ ] or you. know whatever cuz I think. you know war's [ __ ] ugly but that was. a good thing right? Yeah you know. but yeah. after that tour it was full steam ahead. then it was just [ __ ] deployment. deployment selection deployment. deployment deployment deployment. deployment and that carried on for 10. years. How was it getting into selection.

for me? I came back off that deployment. and most people would have been like, "Did you just chill out and bond with. your daughter?" I didn't. I put a. [ __ ] rock sack on and went to the. Breham Beacons and climbed up a. mountain. That's what I did to get away. from it. I didn't deal with it. And I. ran away from trying to be a dad cuz I. didn't understand it. But what I did. know to do was [ __ ] move from A to B. with weight on my back cuz that's all I. wanted. Again, I became obsessed with. passing selection and I threw everything. to the side.

because the only thing that mattered was. getting back out there. The only thing. that mattered to me was getting a seat. on that helicopter. You know, I told you. about that helicopter that went in. I. wanted to be on that helicopter more. than anything. And I don't. I'm not proud of that, but that's what I. had to do. That's why I'm not [ __ ]. hanging up in a garage somewhere with. mighty medals on. That's what I did. Um, but selection was. anybody that sits there and goes,

"Selection wasn't that bad or this is. [ __ ] bullshit." This line, it's hard. It's very, very hard. Um, but one thing. I did have was the ability to know that. I will never. ever quit. That was, you know what I. mean? I'm not quitting on this. So, you're going to have to pull me off or. tell me I'm not good enough, but I'm not. quitting. And I think that kind of. mindset, that mentality, that burn the. ships mentality that we talk about, I. was obsessed. There was no going back. I'm not going back into that patrol. base. I'm not going back in that field. This is what I need to do to get to. where I need to be. And you have to.

understand, Sean, that during those. deployment times, do you know how much. money a marine makes? Do you know how. much money a marine makes a month in. those deployments? Have a guess? A month. A month in Sang. You know how much they. pay you for dealing with all that? 4,000 USD less than that. £1,600. $1,600 which is about two and a half. Yeah. $2,200 a month. That's what we get. paid. Now I come back and I'm trying to raise. a family trying. I got [ __ ] washing.

machines to buy. [ __ ] You understand? Like I have to go on selection. I have. to pass. My wage doubles. I can then you. understand like that's a motivator. Like. it didn't come from a lot. It's important to me that I'm trying to. give my daughter a better life. You. know, that's what I'm trying to do. More. opportunity, you know, a better standard. of living. That [ __ ] motivated me for. sure. I'm not going to quit in the. jungle because I'm a little bit hot or a.

little bit tired. Mm- There's too much. at stake, you know? Way too much at. stake. What's what was the sentiment of the. citizens in UK. while this was all going on. at the time? Sean, the whole country was. behind it. Help for Heroes was a big. charity. People were behind it. Everyone. was pro- forces supporting everyone and. you know it felt like everyone was in. the same situation together.

But then the war stopped and everyone. went quiet, which is when we need it. Arguably we need it more. We need more of it now than we did then, you know. And it's all good for people. to wear the help for heroes band or, you. know, go and do an expedition to. Everest. Good. You should be doing [ __ ] like. that. But at the same time, you need to. do more. And it needs to happen. You know, it needs to happen now. Like, we need to do more as a as as a I'm a. civilian. I'm a civilian now. Do you. understand? I'm trying to do what I can.

to train the next generation. I don't. have a lot of money. If I had if I was a. millionaire, Sean, I'd [ __ ] give as. much money as I could to charity. But I. ain't. What I can do is I can train the. next generation. That's what I'm trying. to do. That's how I like to give back, you know. But again, it's not about money or. anything like that, but we we do need to. do more. We need to recognize it. That. war's not done. And it's not cool and. trendy to be like pro troops, pro-Afghanistan generation, you know? It's an old war. It's a very British. mentality, isn't it? But I think I think. we need to do more because everyone.

wanted to [ __ ] jump on the ban wagon. a few years ago. and now you never see. anything about it. There are good people. out there doing good things. There are. plenty of good charities out there. And. you know, there's a lot. There is a lot, but it's not enough. And it's, you know, it's generally the the community serving. the community, if that makes sense. Yes, it does. Do you understand what I mean. by that? Yes. Yeah. It's a shame. I mean, it sounds. like the people. want to help, but you know, as we.

discussed at the beginning, and we'll. get into more detail at the end, the. government's doing the opposite. They're. making it worse. They're making it. harder for us. Yeah. Let's take a quick break. Sure. Have you ever browsed in incognito mode? I do it all the time. It's a great way. to cut down on annoying ads, but it's. probably not as incognito as you think. A famous search engine recently settled. a $5 billion lawsuit after being accused.

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at checkout. Just head to. bruntworkware.com and use code SRS and. you're all set. Even better, Brunt lets. you try all their products on the job. After you purchase, they'll ask you. where you heard about them. Please. support our show and tell them we sent. you. All right, Jay, we're back from the. break. We're getting into tier 1. operations. Yep. So, yeah, I went on selection 2012. Um,

as soon as I'd completed selection, it. was like the perfect thing for me. Finished on like a Friday. Um, belt beret, end of the process. Couldn't. have been prouder. Like honestly, it was. such a. felt. Some kids wanted to grow up and be an. astronaut. Some guys want to be soccer. players or play in the NFL or be a. quarterback, whatever it might be. I. just wanted to be in a regiment from, you know, from a very early age. I was. aware of it and it was always seen as.

the pinnacle in my opinion. And I think. that there's something to be said for. achieving. a lifetime goal at the age of 24. It's. great, but then when that wears off, you're like, now what do I do? You know, there was a little bit of that, but it. wasn't an antilimax at all. I finished. I then went out to um the States. It's the first time I'd ever been to the. States into flew into LA and then went. down to El Centro um and did a bunch of. jumping out there because we we couldn't. finish the jumps course in the UK cuz of.

the weather's [ __ ] [ __ ] So we went. out to um Oh, you had to go to. California. Yeah, we do that quite. often. I've probably done maybe I don't. know 20 20 odd 30 odd trips to. California. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Go jumping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. real quick, I I I actually do have a. question. Go ahead. We don't have to go. into SAS training and all of that, but I. do want to ask, I mean, with that. deployment that you just described, you. know, 180 contacts in one day. Yeah.

Did they know you were a part of that? Yeah, you may. It's a very good. question, Sean. It was interesting. because when we turned up on selection, that sort of generation of guys, the the cadre, the the we call them DS, the directing staff who are obviously, you know, paid up members of the. regiment, Heraford and Paul, um that. oversee the selection process. They've. all got a wealth of knowledge and.

experience. And they I look up to them. like gods. Still do. All super. impressive guys. Um. and they're there to do a job. They're. there to select people to get into their. they're the gatekeepers of of this. regiment and what it's about, you know, and they're looking at everything from, you know, skill set to character. But it was only a little bit further on, couple of years actually down the line. when I was speaking to one of them as a. friend. They're no longer an instructor, now they're friends, you know, the. people in the same squadrons or.

whatever. And they said they were very. wary of our. generation because they knew that we'd. been in the [ __ ] mixer and they we'd. done stuff that they hadn't done. You. know, I think if you got to the I think. if you missed that conventional period, not to discredit anything that they had. done, but we we we never we weren't. kicking indoors in Baghdad in ' 06. That. wasn't our that wasn't our war, you. know. But you're now dealing with a. bunch of guys that have got serious. decorations, guys that have done serious.

operational deployments, that have been. in gunfights, that have been blown up, that have dealt with all of that stuff. as Marines, paratroopers, infanteers. Like, we're not green soldiers. We're. we're we're we're not blooded, but we're. professional and we're experienced. So. although they still have to treat you a. certain way on selection because it's. selection, they were very um cautious. that the guys that they were training. were they're serious dudes and they've.

done some serious [ __ ] and they were. they were respectful for that and they. were they were they were respectful for. it. Yeah. What what do you what did you. mean when you said they were weary? as. in wary as in like they didn't want to. What often happens on courses is and. I've seen this myself. that are in that unit don't look down on. people that are aren't in that unit but. it's like well we've done this we've. done that but there wasn't too much of. that if that makes sense. They were like. you can't treat people like [ __ ] because. these people have [ __ ] done a lot you.

know and they've been around and it just. wouldn't it wouldn't have been right. So. they were they were cautious that they. didn't want to be disrespectful. They've. still got to be the way that they are. and the line has to be towed and the. standard is the standard, but they were. still, you know, aware that you need to. treat these guys with respect because. some of them have given a [ __ ] ton to. their country. Some of them have been. through a hell of a lot of stuff and. just because that guy might not fit the. mold or pass the standard, don't don't.

disrespect them to the point where it's. like belittling them or undervaluing. their previous, you know, previous. experiences. And I think they navigated. it quite well if I'm honest. I think. they did. I mean, it's it's almost. I mean, there are not many people on the. planet. that have experienced war. And out of. the people that have experienced war,

there is a small small fraction of those. that have experienced what you just. described. And so I mean even though the experience. is is radically different, I mean they they they they. could have treated you with a ton of. respect or it could have become. a jealousy issue.

Yeah. An inferior complex. Yeah. There. there is there is a little bit there was. I would say a little bit of that. creeping in but there were certainly. some people that just didn't acknowledge. it or didn't want to acknowledge it. because that wasn't their situation that. wasn't their war or because you had done. more maybe maybe maybe that's you being. humble this is me telling the [ __ ]. truth I think I'd done I' I'd done quite. a bit you know I'd done my part I think.

you know I don't know how it's a weird. one for me Sean and I know I know it. sounds like. I still don't feel like I did anything. and I I still don't like people will. look at my career or you know you could. do a bullet point on the you know my. resume and the CV and all the rest of it. but it's still I still there's still. like an emptiness to it as in like it. didn't feel like I actually did anything. if that makes sense. It was I was there. and it all happened but it doesn't feel. like that. But it's experience it's. experience that carries you to the next.

level. Absolutely 100%. having been in. that experience. Y nobody's been in that. [ __ ] experience. Yeah. I mean, I think it to me I think. it helped me. It gave me confidence. There was. when I checked in I felt like and again. this might sound arrogant but I felt. like I could sit at the table with any. one of them depending on I don't you. know my squadron had just done a hostage. rescue that first four weeks of their.

deployment they knocked out a hostage. rescue and were cooking on gas. We're. talking about guys that have done. multiple. you know Afghans Iraq. So, you're. talking about some serious. operators that have done some serious. stuff and are highly professional, but I. still felt like I could sit at the table. with them because. ultimately, we're all serving. We're all. trying to do the right thing. We're all.

part of our nation's military. And I. feel like although I missed out on the. big mish maybe or I hadn't, you know, I. wasn't on that 06 tour in Baghdad when, you know, this or that or I didn't do. the but I felt like what I had done was. enough in in my opinion. I felt like it. was it validated me and I think that was. a good thing and it's it's a hard line. to to to tread without coming across as. um a knowit all or arrogant, but I did. feel like and I saw it later on in my. career. I definitely did when we started.

doing more conventional stuff on the. flop, you know, um, you know, big. offensives into like places like Sinjar. and Iraq and all kinds of places like. that. We, you know, we the guys that had. done it, you could tell were comfortable. operating at Reach. You know, I've had. people before it's like, you know, being. in a small team and in the day and no. gunship, that's not a big deal to me. I'm used to that [ __ ] I I walk around. in a [ __ ] field and singing for 8. hours with a [ __ ] you know, £100 on.

my back and a beltfed machine gun. I'm. good. Like I I've been I've lived that, you know. So to me, I never really felt. like that. And it was interesting to me. to watch people that hadn't done that. Although they were very senior now and, you know, in big command positions. You. look around and you're like, you're not. comfortable with this. You're you're not. you're not This is new to you, isn't it? There's no there's no night vision now, dude. There's no there's no AC130 up. there. there's no, you know, there's no. QRF, you know, there's all this stuff. It's I think it it helped me because I.

was used to not having it. Um, so it was. interesting to me when you see those. guys that are like very specific skill. set, extremely experienced, very, very. professional, really good at what they. did, but they hadn't done that, you. know, they hadn't done that thing. And. you know, I know the difference between. having mortars fired at me and being. morted. I know the difference between, you know, when rounds are close or when. you're under contact. Like there's a.

difference. You know, firefights. generally don't last that long in tier. one operations. And they're not always. careful what I say here, but if you do. it right, it should be one way for the. most part, you know, or it should be. very shortlived. You've got so much so. much to bring to bear and so much, you. know, skill and talent there that we. generally get used to winning. All I'd. ever known was losing. I I all I all I. ever did before we got to the regiment. was be on the receiving end of stuff, you know. So, I'm comfortable with that.

I'm comfortable in that situation. And I. think that kind of um helped me. I think. it definitely did. I think it was. definitely a good thing. Um but I do I. do think that you know that conventional. side of life is important. I think like. it pays out when you do a very if you do. a generalist role like. you know crew serve weapons. I can. operate a 50 cal. I can operate a GMG. I. can be a JTAC. I can do this. I can do.

that. You know I'm not saying I can do. everything but like I'm comfortable. doing things that aren't just assaulting. building at night with night vision on. We didn't have no audition. I mean, I'm. asking because even even mean I only had. six years on the SE team, actually a. little less than that. And you know, even as a young guy, I mean, you know, before the before 9/11 happened, there. was a a obviously a long stretch in. between Vietnam and 9/11 where there was. a very few things, you know, there was. Colombia, there was Panama, Somalia,

there was very few people that. participated in that. And. so, you know what happened, and I'll. probably get blasted for saying this, but I don't care because it's the. [ __ ] truth, is. my generation, you know, when I when I. joined the SE teams, I was 18. Uh, or. went to Buds, I was 18. I showed up at, I think, 19. And, you know, the war had kicked off. already, the very beginning of it. Yep. And so you got guys that are coming.

right out of buds going straight to war. And it created this kind of like I said. inferior complex. Yeah. And. instead of embracing, you know, the the. the younger generation that's that's. that's getting that experience and. that's able to pass it on. It it. demoralized a lot of guys, you know, because they would they would not. acknowledge what you've done and then it.

became the the oneup game. And I hate. that. And a lot of the good guys left. because of that and the guys that had no. experience just kept rising through the. ranks and it just created this [ __ ]. rot. Yeah. Inside of the SEAL teams. Yeah. And now you have, and I'm not. saying everybody, I'm not saying. everybody, but you have you have brass. at the very top who have never done a. [ __ ] thing, never been on an operation. Yeah. They've commanded operations from the.

talk. Yeah. Familiar, Sean. And then and then they judge you and. then they put you under investigation. and they want to know about. how the op went down. It's almost it's. It's not almost. It is. They are [ __ ]. working against you because they never. had those experiences and they feel. inferior. because they are. Yeah. No, you're.

you're bang on, mate. You make a good. point and I think it's something that. I've seen before. Like I said to you. before, didn't I said experience is it's. a luxury. It's not a necess necessity. Um, but there's definitely an element of. command that if they don't have it, they'll lean into it when they need. something or when they want an opinion. on something, but then they'll sort of. shy away from it a little bit. And it's. almost like you become punished because. you've got experience or you're. overexperienced or you're overqualified. or, you know, these types of things. It's like everyone's entitled to an.

opinion, but when it comes to a lot of. what we do, experience is useful and it. should be tapped into. And I do think. that you don't see it too much on the. sort of non-commission level, but when. you've got, you know, especially certain. certain elements of the officer type, you know, the officer um class, if you. will, like. I think they find that quite difficult, especially the, you know, in. conventional conventional forms, it's. not that noticeable, but when you get.

into higher, higher levels, like. I'm now putting forward a plan based off. exper experience based off having done. this for over a decade at this point, you know, on my last deployment or, you. know, I'm coming up with a course of. action in order to effectively execute. an operation and yet the points that. you're bringing back to me are nonsense. and you're just showing your. inexperience there. Now, it's fine that. you haven't done all the stuff that. other guys have done. But I think it. would be, you know,

very naive sometimes to not tap into. that and listen to it. You might outrank. me, but you definitely haven't done this. as much as I have. And it might pay for. you to listen to what we're saying, not. just me, but you know, the collective, because what we're saying is. experience-based. We're not making this. [ __ ] up. Like, that's important. Like, if there's a right way and a wrong way. to do it, and we're trying to select the. right way, then just because you haven't. done it or seen it doesn't mean it's not. going to work. Does that make sense? And. I think especially certain types of.

offers, depending on the personality, they want control of it and it wants to. be their idea and it has to be done. their way. And that's fine if it's the. right way and it's the good option or if. it isn't then you're going to get. challenged on it. But then there's. almost this like well I'm in charge type. mentality and it's like it's quite. frustrating. It's quite frustrating. Um. well it's it's detrimental to the. country as well because it's detrimental. to the outcome. You have you have for. your country and for my country. I mean, you have you have this this wealth of. knowledge and all this experience and.

then and then they become demoralized. because of the inferior complex and they. leave. Yeah. And then and when they. leave, you lose all of that experience. that could be passed on to the next. generation 100%. which lessens our. capabilities, which which. it's sad. It's frustrating. It's sad. It's a [ __ ] bureaucracy needs to. change. And so, anybody that's listening. to this from, you know, UK government,

American government, any government, anybody who wants to have an effective. military, you know, you need that. experience. I mean, I could I could go. on forever. I mean, we interviewed. Captain Brad Giri. Yeah. uh who was an. amazing human being. Uh Dallas. Alexander, you know, the Canadian. um the Canadian soft guy that that that. was on the sniper team that took a 2.1. mile [ __ ] shot. It was the world the.

world record shot. Yeah. And they kicked. him out. They kicked him off the [ __ ]. team. Some [ __ ] World record sniper. kill and they just took that experience. and. brushed it off. Yep. Nobody in the world has taken a shot. like that. No, he's a one of one. One of. one and that experience is gone. Yeah, I felt that. I felt that towards the. end. Yeah, there was a few things that. happened in my career that I got. punished for that I was like, what the.

[ __ ] are we talking about here? Like. this is [ __ ] This is like. minor things, right? Like do you want me. to be good at being an operator? Do you. want me to be effective on the. battlefield? Do you want me to have, you. know, the ability to change something? Do you. want me to. provide solutions to problems? Do you. want me to go and be effective and and. do my job? But if you do, then you have to know. that it comes with the whole package. You know, the reason that I'm able to do.

that is because of these things. So, if. you know, for example, I mean, slightly. digress, but like, yeah, no [ __ ] I'm. [ __ ] drinking too much. No [ __ ] I'm. probably spending too much time, you. know, doing whatever. Or maybe maybe I'm. not, you know, maybe I should have had a. bit more respect for somebody or. shouldn't have said that. But like, if. you want me to be, if you employed me to. be this person, you've selected me. because of the character traits that. I've got and my ability to be effective. on the battlefield. But you can't have. it both ways. Like, do you want me to be. a camp commando or do you want me to be.

a commando? Which one do you want? Because they very seldomly link up. the. best operators that I know and have. worked with and seen. Like, none of. those are those squeaky clean white. knight types. And those types of. characters very seldomly have the. experience to to back it. I don't. believe in white knights. I think. everybody's got something going on at. some point. Um, but those that try and. take the moral high ground on stuff or, you know, give us a culture review or. this or that or try and pull like the. moral high ground, it's like.

we're out there trying to have an. impact. We're out there trying to have. an effect on the enemy. That's what the. That's what the British army is for. That's what any army is for. Doesn't. matter what unit you're at. It's about. having an effect against the enemy. Like, and I think it it's worse in peace. time. I think in peace time the army. doesn't know what to do with itself. So, it just creates [ __ ] you know? Oh, this or it's that or it could, you know, it's trivial stuff. Don't wear those. shoes. You got to wear that. Shave your. face. Like, that's how they hide behind. the inexperience. A good leader, a good leader will take.

that experience. from their subordinates. They'll embrace. it. They'll utilize it. They'll. acknowledge it. Yep. And they'll become. a phenomenal leader. Yep. But the ego. gets in the way. You took the word out. of my mouth. And it's something that I. definitely. have learned to come to terms with and. something that I was [ __ ] not aware. of. Ego management. Ego management would. be my number one thing that I would say. to a new guy checking into a squadron.

I'd say you need to manage that [ __ ]. because it will [ __ ] take you down a. path that you don't want to go down. And. if you're not even aware of it, I. haven't got an ego, dude. We've all got egos. We've all got. one. Male, female, doesn't make a. difference. But if you're not aware of. it and you don't keep it in check, then. it's it's going to be a it's going to be. a problem, you know? And my ego. management was non-existent for a long. time. And I wasn't arrogant. I wasn't um I try not to be arrogant. I. was very sure of myself. But it gets to.

a point where. you realize that you are capable. You. realize that you do have that. experience. You realize that you are. quite, you know, able to, you know, you're able to do a. whole bunch of different skill sets. You. you get comfortable with it. And at that. point there, that's when you really need. to keep it in check because it can be. quite easy to let that run away with. you. And then you can come across as. arrogant or, you know, overhyped or all. all these things. And I think, you know, ego management is something I've.

definitely learned the hard way through. and I'm still not perfect. Far from it. I'm just trying to manage it a little. bit better these days. Um, well, I think you're doing a damn good. job. I mean, you know, at the beginning. of this, you were hesitant to talk about. these type of experiences and I'm the. one that's pressing you and I'm the one. that's pulling it out of you. I know you. don't want to talk about this [ __ ] but. it's important. Yeah, it is important. You know, like I said to you before, Sean, like I'm no People look at it. I'm. no [ __ ] poster boy, dude. I've [ __ ].

up so much stuff in my career. I [ __ ]. up loads of stuff professionally, emotionally. Um, yeah. What's the. biggest [ __ ] up you think you've done? That's a good question. That is a good question. I think I got carried away in the life.

and the status of being that guy for a. little bit longer than I should have. I. think I went through a period of. being over the moon to have been in the. squadron and the first 6 months, 2 years. was the best start I could have got. lots of deployments, lots of gunfights, lots of everything and it was all good. And then I think I kind of got a little. bit comfortable with that and rested on.

my laurels a little bit. And I think I. spent probably between two years to. probably about four or five years not. being as professional as I could be. because I was I was always at the. standard that I needed to be and I. wasn't trying to, you know, I wasn't. trying to. really get that 1% out. Really trying to. squeeze it. And it's not to say that I. was lazy or complacent cuz I was [ __ ]. far from lazy and complacent. But I was. probably a bit more interested in.

driving a nice car or having a nice. watch or, you know, a pretty girlfriend. than I probably was about making sure. that my [ __ ] CQB was the best it. could be or my jumping was the best it. could be. My CQB was good enough. My. jumping was good enough. Like that kind. of good enough mentality. I think I had. that for too long. And then when I. really did ramp it up, um it was because. I decided not to drink alcohol for a. thousand days. I decided one day that's. it. I've had enough. you know, it makes. me feel like [ __ ] I don't want to live. that life anymore. I need to make some. changes. I'm hurting people. Uh, it's.

having a detrimental effect on my. career. I'm making bad decisions. Um, I was a [ __ ] loose cannon for a while. in the squadron for sure. Um, and no matter how good you are, how effective you are, you still got to. be in harmony with the group. And I. don't think I was necessarily. And I. think I was. I think I had a mentality of I'm [ __ ]. doing it my way because that's the only.

way I know. And I think I should have. slowed down a little bit on that. Um and. and just. Yeah. I mean, I got in [ __ ] I was uh. reduced in rank once. I had a couple of. three-month warnings. Like I was a. handful. And I got to the point, and. this is not making excuses, but I just. didn't want to [ __ ] listen to people. anymore. Listen to people that I knew to. be less experienced or of a different. mindset to me. And I should have been. more accommodating to that. Um, and I.

should have had more emotional. intelligence to be able to navigate that. better where it was like if you didn't. agree with my philosophy or my sort of. um my ethics, I suppose, then it was, you know, it was a kind of a [ __ ] you. type mentality. You know, it didn't. serve me well. I don't I don't regret. anything I've ever done in the military. I don't. Um, and when I look back retrospectively, yeah, I could have done some stuff. differently, but I also know that's part.

of who I am and why I did it. And if I. hadn't have done those things or behaved. in certain ways or, you know, been reckless maybe, um, then I wouldn't. be the person I am today. And I'm good. with the person I am today. You know, we've talked a lot about stuff that's. happened in the past, but you know, bottom line is I can look myself in a. mirror, and I'm far from [ __ ]. perfect, dude. You know, if I practice. what I preached, I'd be perfect. But I. don't. I'm human, and I'm trying to. relearn how to be an actual human being.

I'm not an operator anymore. That's a. difficult thing to do. So, I'm more in. touch with that, if that makes sense. I'm more connected to to to my own. process and to my own sort of um. emotions, if you will. But for a very. long time, I was just trying to be that. dude, you know, and it didn't really. serve me. Did you come to a realization that you. needed to change? Yeah. What triggered that? Um,

if you want me to be honest, I put a. pistol in my mouth a couple of times and. that [ __ ] changed my life. Um, it got to a point after a bunch of. deployments, a whole bunch of [ __ ] had. happened. Uh yeah, my grandma. I lost my. grandma. Matt got killed. Close family. friend got killed in a weird accident. I. [ __ ] watched a helicopter crash. I've been [ __ ] blown up. The whole. box just and I was just at the lowest. point I'd ever been. And it was almost. like the one thing the one thing that I. had that kept me.

kept me going. had stopped working. the the. deployments, the combat, the all that. [ __ ] was what kept me alive. And I. started to become immune to it. And I. just didn't [ __ ] feel anything. And I. didn't look forward to anything. And. I didn't really see a way out of it if. I'm honest. And. it just seemed.

hopeless for a long time. And I fought. it and I fought it and I fought it and. then one day I nearly gave up fighting. it and I didn't. Thank God. Um, but that soers you up pretty [ __ ]. quickly. because that was ready to go. I remember. it clear as day I was at the end of a. range. I'd just been I'd been punished.

for some [ __ ] at work that [ __ ]. doesn't even doesn't even grant a. conversation with you. it doesn't even. warrant it. But I'd basically been told. that, you know, promotion prospects were. [ __ ] zero. You know, I was probably looking to get. out of the squadron. I didn't feel valued. I was made to feel. like [ __ ] basically. Um, and I was. [ __ ] heartbroken about it. And. I was like, well, if I can't do this,

the one thing I dedicated my entire life. to, the only thing, the only thing. um that I really truly loved at that. point, it felt like it was all gone. It was all. been thrown away. Um, so I nearly [ __ ] did it. I nearly. went there on two occasions. Two times. you had a pistol in your mouth. Yeah. What? Not. Once it was in my mouth.

Yeah. Once was in my mouth and once was. just sat lap. Both. loaded made ready. One in the chamber. Both times in the same situation. Once. the first time I got a phone call. That was the closest time I think. Which. time was that? The first time. Was that. in the mouth? Uh yeah. You got a phone. call. That's why you had a gun in your. mouth. Yeah. I'd played with it. Huh? Who called you?

He was a good friend of mine at the. time. He later went on to. betray me. Um, there was a girl. involved. Um, I'd come off the range. I was going back to my house. Was going to drink like I did a lot to. feel something. I was like, "You know what? I don't want to keep [ __ ] doing. this." So, I'm sat there. I'm in the. car. Closed up the range, signed the book,

about to go and hand the guns in. And I just did it. I just [ __ ] made. it ready. and put it underneath my chin. Felt. that. Put it down a little bit. Thought about. it. put it in my mouth. Thought about it. Don't have the [ __ ] balls to do it. I wanted to. I [ __ ] wanted to, you. know.

And yeah, I I get the phone call. What. time are we shooting tomorrow? You want. to come to the range? Cool. I'll see you in the morning. Live to fight another day, right? Stay. in the fight. I don't know what would have happened if. that phone call had come. I'd like to sit there and tell you that. I would have talked myself down. I don't know if I would have or not. Maybe.

Yeah. I was dealing with a [ __ ] lot. of [ __ ] and I was dealing with it really. really badly and I was throwing alcohol. at the problem and the one thing that. made me feel good about myself was my. job and my job was not long no longer. making me feel good about myself. So at. that point there I'm like [ __ ] what is. the point? What is the [ __ ] point in. all of this? You know you know it's. interesting you had mentioned earlier. that that you don't have a. strong relationship with God.

There's no atheist in a trench. I know. that. What do you think that was? I mean the. timing. You think that was a coincidence. of that phone call? No. I don't think so. What do you think it. was? I don't know. I don't know. It's a very difficult one to This is a. conversation I've not even had with. myself for a very long time. So, if I'm. stumbling through, I have to apologize.

I don't know why that happened that day. the way it did, but it did. I don't. believe in coincidences. And the more I look at it, the more. there must have been. There has to be, you know, things happen for a reason, don't they? You don't always understand it or even. acknowledge it or recognize it. sometimes. Um, the timing of that is a miracle. It's a. [ __ ] nothing short of a miracle,

mate. That came from up there. Came from somewhere, brother. It brought. you here today. I would not be [ __ ]. sat here if that phone didn't ring. That's a [ __ ] fact. You know, and um. what you're about to get into, you know, after we get through your SAS career, it. brought you to this point. You're the. one that's supposed to [ __ ] do this.

You're the one that has the courage to. have the voice to stand up for all of. your teammates, all the people that. passed, everything that's going on, all. the investigations. brought you here. It feels like it's for something. It really does. Um, and who knows what else is to come. Yeah, who knows, brother. I said before. it feels it feels like for the first. time in a long time there is no black.

cloud on the horizon. and I feel truly free. I'm a little hurt. as they say, but I'm a lot more free. than I was, you know. And I think. sometimes you have to fight through, you. know, and I think to myself how lucky. and how fortunate I am to have good. people around me, people that help me. And if I can in some small. insignificant way help somebody else.

or do something that has a positive. effect on our community or an. individual, then. that's worth staying in the fight for. That's worth going. That's a hill I will. die on, you know. Um, what was the gentleman's name that. called you? Ben. Does he know? No. No, he doesn't. He does now. No, he does. Yeah. Do you.

think you'll have a conversation with. him? No. Never. No. No. I don't think I will. I probably. should, but ego management, right? We [ __ ] talked about it, didn't we? He [ __ ] hurt me, dude. He also saved you. Yeah, he did. Indirectly. Indirectly, for sure. Yeah.

It's funny, isn't it, how things go like. that? Yeah. We were [ __ ] super tight at the. time, man. I was like, "Fucking.". Yeah. That was just a, you know, I feel. like I was. one thing away from from [ __ ]. breaking, you know, at all times. I felt. like that for a long period of time. And. then when they. took it felt like they took it away from.

me. They took the one thing that [ __ ]. gave me purpose. And I felt lonely and I. felt [ __ ] scared and I didn't know. what to do. and. I just didn't want to [ __ ] be there. anymore. I didn't want to be there. You know, I don't know what happened. between you and Ben and I don't want to. go into it. But. I can tell you one thing that I've. learned in life. You want to be free, you have to learn forgiveness because it.

probably affects you a lot more than it. affects him. M. and when you let that [ __ ] go, it's gone. I need to work on that. That's something. that I'm, you know, I don't know what it is. I've got a very. unique capability to be able to shut. people out of my life that have been. close to me in a [ __ ] heartbeat. We all have that. Yeah. Oh, I'm world.

class at it. I'm a pro at that. And I look back at. relationships and friendships and. people. I don't know whether it's cuz I moved. around quite a bit. I did move around. quite a lot. I don't know whether it's. because, [ __ ] is it because I'm an only. child? Is it because I [ __ ] went to a. whole bunch of different schools? But my. ability. to detach emotionally from something, regardless of whether it's after 5.

minutes, 5 years, or whatever, I can do. that very very quickly and capable. And. it's a [ __ ] toxic trait that I've. got. And I hate it about myself cuz I. can do it. And it's it's it's. running away. It's [ __ ] being a. coward is what it is. I I won't deal. with it. I'll just [ __ ] block it. Deal with it later. Move on. And. it's [ __ ] hurt. It hurts people. Um, and I [ __ ] don't like that about. myself. It's necessary to be able to do.

that. I learned to [ __ ] do that. really well because that was the only. thing that I could do to cope. You know, like. I don't have time to deal with that. You know, it's like when John got hit, it goes. back to that, doesn't it? I came back into the patrol base. I washed the blood out of the quad and I. went and sat on that sanger. over watching the exact position that it. happened.

And I remember. feeling that I can't. I can't [ __ ] I can't stop. And I. remember looking and watching. It's a. very [ __ ] dark thing when you can see. a pack of wild [ __ ] dogs up there and. you know what they're doing and you know. why they're [ __ ] there and you see. people up there, you know, picking stuff. up. Like that's within [ __ ] minutes. of this happening. Certainly within an.

hour. Like that was my reality. There. ain't no [ __ ] time for this. You. ain't got time to sit there and cry. You. ain't got to sit there and [ __ ]. mourn. Like I don't give a [ __ ] about. people's feelings sometimes because. that was a coping mechanism. Emotion was. not a [ __ ] good thing. I'm a [ __ ]. quite an emotional person. But I'm either one or the other. It's. like no emotion, completely indifferent.

or I'm all in, you know? Mhm. And I [ __ ] hate that. about myself. I do. Um, but at the same. time, it's been a [ __ ] necessary. tool, you know, like. we're going out on patrol tomorrow. That's what we're doing, you know? And. that's fine until you're not going out. on patrol anymore. And now you got to. [ __ ] deal with it, you know? And. again, I'm just trying to um I'm trying. to improve, man. That's all I'm trying. to do. And I'm trying to be a [ __ ].

better per I'm trying to learn how to be. a human being. I've not been a [ __ ]. human being for the best part of 20. years. I've been a [ __ ] warrior. That's what I've been doing. But that's not that's that's not an. excuse. That's not an excuse to be a shitty dad. That's not an excuse to be a shitty. boyfriend. It's not good enough. You. have a [ __ ] It's not good enough. I've got high standards, but when it. comes to like emotional stuff or empathy. or people's feelings, I need to be. better. I know that. I recognize it. But.

it's [ __ ] not easy, dude. It's it's a. hard hard thing to do. But you are. right. Forgiveness is [ __ ] important. I don't pay it too much mind if I'm. honest. I'm kind of dealt with it. mentally. I think I've gotten over it. and got past it. Um. I hope you call him. or text him or write them or email him.

Doesn't mean you got to be buddies with. them. But it then you can put it behind you. Truly put it behind you. It serves as a reminder to me. You're. right. I should maybe I will. I can't. promise what I'll do, but I what I can. do for you is I promise that I'll think. about that. and I'll let you know. Please do. I will. I will. So, let's talk about checking into the.

unit. Yeah. So, two weeks after I finish, I get my. beret, go to America, I start jumping, everything's good. I check into the. squadron. I turn up, arrive in the. middle of the night. Squadron's out. They're on They're on a job. So, I go, the Storman picks me up. There's. four of us. Four of us checked into my. squadron from my course. All in. different troops. So, I got air troop,

which I [ __ ] didn't really want. initially, I'll be honest with you, cuz. I [ __ ] had a horrific time on my. basic jumps course. Um, and I was like, I don't really want to start getting. into this like [ __ ] freef fall stuff. and all the rest of it, but they were. like, you're going on air trips. I was. like, cool. I [ __ ] guess I better go. free fall, you know? But I checked in, went into the. building. We're in Kandahar at the time, and I was [ __ ] blown away from day. one. I was in love with that job. that. place that that that [ __ ] it felt.

like I'd landed. It felt like finally. that I was where I needed to be. You. know, the guys came back in the next day and. it's it's a weird [ __ ] sensation. because I want to say nobody spoke to. you cuz you're the new guy or nobody did. that, but that's not the case. Everyone. was so [ __ ] good to me. Like, and. they were like that because they knew. that they had to be. We were going on. operations regularly. We were out most. nights, day VIs, night vis, detention. operations, raid, you name it. We were. [ __ ] going in all directions and new.

guys were on everything, you know? So, I. had a lot of time. to [ __ ] gain respect and gain trust. and that's exactly what I tried to do. And yeah, I was just [ __ ] impressed. by the the what was most impressive. actually was the was the how slick that. whole operation was. Everybody knew what. was going on, but nobody was asking any. questions, if that makes sense. Everyone. just knew, but I was always made to feel welcome. It was like, you know, that old saying, there's no such thing as a stupid. question. It genuinely did feel like. that. And I just had so many people to.

look around and learn from. It was just, it was just an incredibly intense. experience. And I think you gain trust. quite quickly in an operational. environment once people knew that I was. a professional and I was there for the. right reasons, people like you, you. know, you started to feel part of it. And once. I felt part of it and felt loved and. felt part of the team, which happened. pretty quickly, I fell head over heels. in love with the whole thing. I didn't. want to do anything for the rest of my.

life. It was just there was a long. period of my time. If you could have. just left me in that. that compound in Kandahar, just hitting. targets every night, going to the gym, I. would have been [ __ ] I would have. done that for the rest of my life, you. know? I was I was actually happy for the. first time in. a long time. I felt like I was exactly where I needed. to be. There was nowhere else that I. needed to go and chase. I was exactly. doing what I was supposed to be doing. And I'm surrounded by people that all. felt and did exactly the same thing as.

me. One of the first guys that I met the. morning after the night that I arrived. We had a bunch of welcoming briefs. basically. Chris Craig had sat me down. He was. running the partner force at the time. and he told me everything about the. partner force, how it works, what his. job was, where I would fit in, you know, dos and don'ts, things that they they, you know, things that make them work. well, things that don't make them work. well. And it was just so. impressive to me, you know, all of the. team leaders were [ __ ] rock stars to. me. You know, I looked up at those guys,

still do for the most part, for most of. them like they were gods, you know. I. was just like, "Wow." Like there are. levels to this stuff. I'd come from a. fairly high level of soldiering, but. when I got to this position and these. guys, I was like, "Okay, there are. levels here that I didn't even know. [ __ ] existed, you know, and it was. just a pleasure to be around. It was it. was a happy time in my life, you know? I. come back from that first deployment, we've done a whole bunch of cool [ __ ]. you know, loads of VI, [ __ ] loads of. gunfights. It was good. It was so so impressive to.

see the level of professionalism and. efficiency being executed by so many. people. Not just the guys on the ground, but the special forces support group, the marines and paras on the cordon, the. helicopter pilots, the targeteers, the. signalers. [ __ ] dude. Even the cooks, even the chefs, man. The whole thing was. just. welloiled. And. it was a strange feeling because you're. now sat in a one-man air conditioned.

room with Wi-Fi, hot showers, three. square meals a day, good gym, secure. location, no sentry, very little ID. risk. Like I was like, thank [ __ ] for. that. This is exactly what I wanted. It. was exact. It was everything that I. thought it would be and more. And I just wanted to be good. I just. wanted to be as best as I could. And I. think I did that for a little while and. then I got comfortable after a couple of. years and then I kind of didn't stop. trying. I just stopped trying so hard,

you know, and I just let it roll then. Do you think it. Do you think the fact that. I mean there's nowhere else to go? There's no level up. You're at the. pinnacle. Correct. That's the problem. That was the problem that I suffered. with because it was like, well, what the. [ __ ] else do I do now? I'm 24 years old. I'm [ __ ] got my dream job. It's not a. job. It's a [ __ ] way of life. And I kind of not took my foot off the. gas a little bit, but I kind of enjoyed. it a little bit too much. And I did, you.

know, I was drinking too much, going. out, [ __ ] you know, chasing girls and trying to be that. [ __ ] dude, man. And it just it just. didn't really. I thought I had it. I thought I had. everything that I could ever want. You. know, I'm 25 years old, 24 years old, whatever. Driving around in a [ __ ]. fancy BMW. I've got [ __ ] multiple. Rolexes. cuz I look [ __ ] in good. shape. But all that all that [ __ ] and all that. stuff that I thought would make me happy. didn't make me happy. It didn't. It was.

poison. It was [ __ ] toxic, you know? And it took me a long time to [ __ ]. realize that. A long time. So, you know, if I was to look back on. that career, I would just say just have. a bit more I should have been more. humble with it. I think a bit more. humility um. and a bit more intelligence when it. comes to diet. And I don't mean. [ __ ] carbs and fats. I mean. everything that you consume is diet. The.

music that you listen to, the people. that you hang around with, the decisions. you make, the drinks you have, the. drinks you don't have, the clubs you go. to, the ones you don't, the time you go. to the range, the time you don't. My. diet wasn't good. On the outside, it looked like I had it. all. On the inside, I was [ __ ] just. hollow. And it was just about deployments. For a. long time, it was just about how many. how many [ __ ] bombs can I drop? How. many [ __ ]. how many [ __ ] bad guys can I get, you.

know? How many [ __ ] jumps can I do? How quick can I put a charge on a door? Like, that was it. That was, you know, that was the only thing that I [ __ ]. valued. It was that was the only thing. that mattered and that's all good and. well but it does wear off and when it. does you need to have something else you. know I don't like the person I was back. then I don't I feel like I was a [ __ ]. good soldier a good operator but I was a. [ __ ] shitty dad I wasn't there not.

always because I there were times where. I was too preoccupied. in my own existence than I was. And I. should have done more. I missed out on a. lot of those years, I think, by. being too consumed in my own [ __ ]. hype, man. That's what it was. I was too. [ __ ] too consumed in it. And I. drinking the Kool-Aid too much, you. know?

And I don't know if that's just part of. growing up or what it is. And I see it. now. I see it in I see it in the young. guys, not young guys, but the guys that. have come through. They do the first two. years where they're like panicking that. they're not at the standard. Then they. get comfortable and then they take the. foot off the gas and all of a sudden it. becomes more about all that other. [ __ ] than it does about being a. [ __ ] good dude and a good soldier. It's a weird one. I think it's because. I mean people that are as driven as you. are. or anybody that operates at that level.

I mean where does the drive go? Where. does the drive go when there's no next. step? Yeah. There's nothing left to work. for. All you can do is, and I'm not saying. this lightly when I say all you can do, but is is is work on perfecting your. craft, Mark. Y and so, you know, when. you reach the pinnacle of whatever. you're doing, I I think there's an. aspect to everybody that that.

becomes boring. Yeah. And then you have to reinvent. because the drive never goes away. Yeah, it doesn't. I think for me it was. it becomes confusing. Confusing is. exactly what I was about to say. It. comes. it's it's very difficult to. to see the wood from the trees. You. know, I was I didn't see it. Now when I.

look back retrospectively, it's easy to. go [ __ ] hell. Of course, if your diet. was [ __ ] the out if your input is [ __ ]. the output's going to be [ __ ] right? But when you're in it, it's very. difficult. And I was I was very confused. about, you know, what priorities were. It was it was like a boom or bust period. of my life. Like everything was. disposable, life was disposable, relationships were disposable. I was. living to go on deployments. I was. coming back from deployment just to get. ready to work up on the next cycle, go. again, you know. And when that stopped.

working. and it stopped making me feel good about. myself, it's like you become, you know, dependent on this drug, this [ __ ]. thing, this chemical reaction that you. get to doing that job. You know, when. that wears off, you channel it in other ways. You. channel it in other ways. I used to drink a lot. to feel something. Not to drown out the.

pain or to numb myself or any of that. It was just to feel something, you know? I'd just become indifferent. It was like. nothing really [ __ ] mad. And it was. depressing, man. It was [ __ ] dark. And I didn't really care what people. thought. If I didn't like someone's. opinion, I'd tell them. You know, I wasn't a [ __ ] decent. person for a long time. And I wasn't I. wasn't that bad, but.

I was pretty [ __ ] far from being the. person that I want to be. at that point. I think that sort of. middle period of my life or my military. career. I was an exceptional soldier, but I was. a [ __ ] shitty dude. I think I might. be being a bit harsh on myself, but. I definitely do things a little bit. differently. So when you ask me what my. biggest [ __ ] up was was not managing my. ego and not channeling my um drive and.

taking things for granted and not. prioritizing. the right things. I think that was what. I did. And sounds like you found it now. I'm trying. I I'm trying, Sean. I'm. [ __ ] trying real hard, mate, to to to. be better. And I get dragged back there. sometimes. Well, just talking to you. before the interview, I mean, sounds. like you're really trying to figure out. how to be a better father for your. daughter. I'm trying. That's That's all. there is left to do now. There's There's.

no selection courses. There's no more. operations. There's no more It's gone. It's not. there. And I'm just trying to build and be. better. And it's [ __ ] hard. Like, it's the one thing I don't know how to. do. And I'm trying to navigate it the best I. can. And it's [ __ ] hard. And it makes it even harder when I'm. trying to shield her from all this. [ __ ] [ __ ] in the newspapers and. all this sort, you know, all these types.

of things. These people that don't care. about me, don't care about my family and. I'm trying to rebuild that and I want. her to see stuff like this. One of the. reasons I do this or I put stuff on my. Instagram account is because I want her. to know who I am and I want her to see. all of it and I want her to know exactly. what it is that I've been doing and why. I've been doing it, you know, and she. hopefully when she grows up as a young. woman will see that and she'll go, I'm. not perfect, but I [ __ ] love her to. death, you know? And I hope she sees. that. I think she will. I hope she will.

I pray like that's all I need to do now. is just that, you know, that's that's. the only thing left to achieve. Is there anything you would say to her. right now? I love her. I'm sorry. Um. I'm sorry for all the [ __ ] birthdays. and. Christmases and. I'm proud. I'm so [ __ ] proud of her, man. She's. she's gorgeous, smart,

a [ __ ] athlete, you know? And I just look at her and I just think. that's why I didn't press that trigger. That's why I did it. And I'm ashamed of myself for almost. being that [ __ ] selfish. because I was selfish for a long time. And. it [ __ ] breaks my heart. It does. But I'm still in the fight and I'm not.

[ __ ] stopping. Okay. I'm going to try. and keep going and improve. and and be better and I'm going to [ __ ]. it up again. I know I am at some point. It's natural. I'm not perfect. I'm just. want to be better, you know? So, I'd say that I'm sorry and I'm. proud. You're off to a damn good start. Let's talk about your first operation, kinetic operation in SAS in Afghanistan.

I remember it very clearly. We was uh I. was in Soul 3, different assault teams, but my job was. basically to run out if there were any. um we call them squirters, but. essentially that's people for people. that don't know that's people that run. away when the helicopters land, move to. fighting positions or try and escape. capture or whatever it might be. So, we. were runner control, call it runner. control, squirt control, whatever you. want to call it. And I remember getting. out of the back of the CH47 and running.

towards target. When those birds landed, we were on the X. And for those that. don't understand what on the X means, it. means we were landing on the target and. running straight to where our assault. positions were and we were locking down. the compound and you know, whatever the. enemy decided to do, then we were going. to have our say. But I remember getting. off in the first I wasn't even out with. the brown outer and I can hear. suppressed rounds being fired and this. was in. seconds of me being boots on the ground. for the first time.

I walk out of the brown out still a bit. more of a gunfight going on just up. above from where my position was. probably about 50 m in front of me and. uh I fan out like we do in the jungle. there's a very specific drill that you. do in the jungle and that's what I'm. going back on my jungle training and the. guy behind me just like basically. grabbed me and just stay in the line and. I was like oh okay cool don't fan out. basically I was like oh things are. slightly different here I moved to my. position step over a dude he's got a. long barrel weapon system face down he'd.

been brassed up there was another. gunfight going on in another compound. around the corner and I basically just. went to the position I was supposed to. be in and awaited further [ __ ]. direction basically. Um, there were no runners. That guy. didn't get the chance to run. He was. trying to fight. He'd fired some rounds. I didn't hear that as I landed because. of the [ __ ] brown out in the rotor. wash, but he'd engaged the task force on. infill um as they were coming out. And. as he went down, the lead guy just. dropped him in place. And that was the.

first real time, and I'm I'm I don't. mind saying this, that was the first. real time I was like up close to a dude. This is not Afghanistan 2010 where. they're ghosts and you don't often get. to see them. I mean, I'd seen plenty of. dead bodies before, but not not guys. that are armed and ready to fight there. and then. Do you know what I mean? That. was the proximity of what it was was. completely new to me in that, you know, I' I'd been in a lot of gunfights till. then and, you know, I'd made a lot of. engagements. I say a lot, half a dozen or so live engagements with. people that I know for a fact I've hit,

but it was all at range. Whereas this. was [ __ ] super close. And I was like, that's kind of what I was looking for, you know? I was like, "Yeah, we've. landed. This is exactly where I'm. supposed to be.". And again, everyone's just so calm about. it. Everyone's just like, "Yeah, like he shot us, we shot him back. That's just the way it does business.". And I know that sounds super basic. Like, of course, that's what you're. there to do. But it's when you see it. for the first time, you're like, "Ah, [ __ ] This is [ __ ] this is cool. This.

is cool." Like, this is this is why I. went through this whole process to get. to this situation to get that seat on. that helicopter. and then you're into like SSE and I. don't really mind what I'm doing. And. I'm like, it was a strange one because I. was like, we're doing SSE. So SSSE for those that. don't know is basically making sure that. we get all of the right information, you. know, whether it's, you know, documents, hard drives, USBs, anything that we can. take off target that will then feed into. the targeting cycle. So it's a super. important job and it's down to the new.

guys basically because it's hard work. And I look around and helmets off. Dudes. have got helmets off. Assault weapons, you know, rifles are just lent against. the wall. Dudes are smoking, talking, all the new guys are running around like. crazy trying to bag everything up and. all the rest of it. And I'm like, how. have we gone from being super hyper. professional to being like standing. around smoking with the helmets off? I. was like, do you understand what I'm. saying? It was like, it was a bit of a. strange experience, but that was just. what feeling out the squadron was like.

And then you just you you get used to. like I'm like trying to pull century and. pull garden. I'm like you don't need to. do that. Is that why is that gunship's. up there? And I'm like oh. oh okay. Do you understand? So it was a. bit of a shift in that way. But yeah. that was the first within literally. within seconds of stepping off the bird. shots were fired enemy engaged gunned. up. I was like yeah it's exactly what. it's supposed to be. And it just carried. on. just carried on like that. Do you.

remember the f the first time that you. killed somebody for close range? Yeah, I. do. Yeah, it was on a um nighttime. vehicle into addiction. U we were. hitting the narco. So that basically. they were taking her heroin uh opium and. all kinds of other [ __ ] from Helman. province down to the border in Pakistan. and then they were swapping it for guns. and then bringing those guns back up to. use against the British army. So we were. just smashing those as best we could. We. were doing them day and night. Uh it was. a dog actually that that [ __ ] saved. me on this occasion. We got off. So.

there's there's multiple birds, but the. bird that I was on was in charge of. again runner control basically. So we. had a stop a bird and then a bird that. would essentially anyone that ran, we. would then vector towards that. And then. the 47s at the back would be the the the. sort of assault force that would then go. up and clear the vehicle. So I was like. on, you know, what's the word? Reserve. basically. But these guys had run out. They were gunned up. Um and they'd gone. off into the desert. bird goes down. It was on a on the 60s, so the Blackhawks American Cruise. Um,

and I get off. My team leader is just. like that. And I'm like, cool. So, you see this sparkle? So, it's like. this IR pulse in the in the desert, which the drones have have captured this. guy running and maneuvering away. So, they're vectoring me towards this. location, but it's not specific to the. point where it's like I know exactly. where this dude is. It's a general area. Um, and it was all sort of shrubs and. bushes and I'm just sort of closing. down. I've got a couple of guys behind. me, the dog handlers there and it's.

a bush about sort of this high and I'm. I'm I'm coming round and I'm starting to. clear it. I'm starting to clear it and. all of a sudden the dog comes from my. position over to the right and goes. right across my front and hits the bush. on the left and he [ __ ] locks on to. this dude and I can see him straight. away. the it's like he's got he's got. the gun in one hand and he's got a. [ __ ] dog on the other arm and I just. swing round and it's it's almost as if. we had that that it was like I'm not. going to say it was super professional. I was like, "Holy fuck." Like I nearly.

just got lit up there. I need to slow. down. It was it was more shock and panic. than it was anything else. But we're. pretty much as close as we are now. And. I don't remember a sight picture. I. don't remember anything. I just put a. late bread laser on his chest and dumped. four, five, six rounds into it and that. was it. And I'm just like, [ __ ] hell. Like, thank God for that dog, you know? Anything could those were those were. dicey. Those VI were dicey, especially. when you're closing down with people in. those situations cuz they've got the. drop on you for the most part.

Obviously, we've got night vision or the. dogs and all the tools to get it, but it. only takes one burst, you know, but that. is close. That is proximity. Like you. can see the dude like from me to you. And it was like, yeah, over and done. with. No one bats an island. No one's. like, "Well done, or you were right.". It's just like, "Yeah, one time ZKIA. weapons found. Search him. Take a. picture. DNA gone. That's it. On to the. next operation." Like, yeah, surreal. But I'm not going to say it didn't feel.

good. I was indifferent to it. There was. no emotional attachment to it. whatsoever. It was like, that's exactly. what I'm supposed to be doing. It was It. wasn't like I didn't feel good about it. Didn't feel bad about it. I didn't feel. anything about it really, if I'm honest. with you. It was like, what if you're. going to smuggle drugs and kill British. soldiers and then you're going to run. around the desert with a gun in your. hand? Then what the [ __ ] do you expect? You know, you bought a ticket, you. voted, that's the outcome. But it was Did you feel a sense of. accomplishment? Yeah, 100%. I felt like. I was I was proud of myself cuz I did.

what I was supposed to do, you know, and. it wasn't an ego thing. It wasn't like, yeah, I've done this, I've done that. It. was just like, oh, good. I reacted the. way that I'm supposed to react and I. didn't hesitate and I did exactly what. was supposed to happen. And the end. result was right. This guy would have. [ __ ] killed me if id had given him. the chance. I learned some lessons to. it. Slow the [ __ ] down. Like be careful. Be a bit more cautious. I did feel bulletproof for a long time. I did have that sense of I've done two. tours of sanging. Like that carried me. on for a long time. I was like, I can't.

die. I'm bombroof. I'm literally. bombroof. I've been blown up a bunch of. times, shot a bunch of times. Like I. thought I was [ __ ] indestructible. And that was a little bit of an early. warning there just to be like, Jay, just. [ __ ] chill out a little bit. Hold. your horses because it only takes one. round, right? And they don't they don't. have to be surgical. The application of. violence that we do in those squadrons. is surgical application. And it's. extremely. it's extremely detailed in terms of the. the level of proficiency and the.

application of it. It's it's hyper. professional. Whereas these guys don't. need to be like that. They're just one. round, two round here, there. You don't. it, you know, I've learned that lesson. before the hard way. It doesn't matter. if you're the best opera in the world. Doesn't matter if you're the best raw. marine in the world. If you step on. something or you move two two inches to. the left or two inches to the right, you. don't get the chance to be good. You're. just going to get you're going to get. hurt. So, that was a gentle reminder to. myself there that you're not. indestructible and always [ __ ] clear. your corner, right? So, yeah, it it was.

it was. strange one bit surreal. I'm grateful. for the dog. grateful for the dog Amler. Um but yeah, I learned a lot a lot of lessons on. that. Yeah, I don't feel any empathy for it. now. What were you guys doing in North. Africa? So I was in a I was on a small team, six-man team. We were operating at Rich. People talk about our med time lines. there was like 24 hours. Like there was. nobody else there. But I flew into the. airport on a British Airways British.

Airways flight. Um. and we were gathering information. We. were working out um which militias that. we could potentially look to use partner. forces for for further operations down. the line. We were trying to find and. recover potential chemical weapons that. had been left after the fall of the. regime. We were on a factf finding. mission essentially. We were just it was. a low viz operation. No camouflage. Everything that we needed was already.

there. They' taken it out there. So you. didn't fly into country with guns. You. didn't fly in with nods. student. It was. all there. Um, and when I flew in, it. was on a British Airways flight and it. was all good for about 10 days and then. the country imploded. Two militias, one. from the east, one from the west. Um, that just basically went to war with. each other and everyone flee. Everyone. flew uh fled the country. What year is. this? 2014. Yeah, 2014. Um,

I think I think if I'm right, we are. probably if not the only team that's. ever had to deny a safe house in time, like in situ like real time. Um, we got. rolled up by pure luck um or bad luck. depending on how you look at it. Basically, our compound was situated in. the middle of a long road about a. kilometer in length. And on one side of. the road, you had one militia. On the. other side of the road, you had another. militia and they were just going at it.

But they were going at it with. everything from grad rockets to ZSU234s. I've never seen weapons like that. You. know, that was that was all out. scrapping. And we just happened by pure. bad luck to have a safe house in the. middle of that location. It wasn't. targeted at us. It wasn't something that. they knew about. But half the team are in, you know, the. other side of the country doing a. meeting three hours away. And I'm in the. safe house with one other guy, one other. operator, a signaler, uh a pool, a pool. boy called Alli who was a local.

national, uh and another sort of expat. guy who was probably late late 60s, early '7s that we used to employ to like. [ __ ] paint stuff and you know, odd. jobs basically. He was a Brit. Um, so. we've got this mix match of people. inside of this inside of this house when. all this is going off. And it started. off quite quite gentle at, you know, just a bit of gunfire here and there. It. was wasn't. it wasn't normal, but it wasn't anything. to be worried about. But then throughout.

the day, it just ramped up and up and up. and uh the guys were racing back as far. as they can or as fast as they can to. come and help us out. Basically, it's. it's a [ __ ] funny story. Like we're. we're dressed as diplomats. Now these. safe houses, you know what they're like? They're supposed to be low low viz, but. after each team comes in, they're like, "Oh, we need this. Now we need that, and. now we need this." So basically, before. you know it, you've got a room full of. machine guns and suppressors. You've got. dems charges. You've got maps. You've. got [ __ ] secret equipment. You know,

there's a whole bunch of [ __ ] in there. that we cannot afford to. let be stolen or give to the enemy, you. know? So, it wasn't that low viz at this. point. And uh I'll I'll never forget. this. There was like an armored. personnel carrier that was like sat. there was an outer gate and an inner. gate and it was sat at the outer gate. and we made the phone call back to um HQ. in Heraford and we were like this is on. top. There were rounds hitting the. building at this point. It's like what. do you want us to do? And they're like. well don't do the destruction plan yet.

Just wait out and see if it goes away. And we were like. thanks that's great advice. Like give me. an asset. And they were like oh we. haven't got any assets. So it's like you. just just ride it out. the team's on the. way back and then they're like, "Is the. round are are the rounds in and around. your position?" And I'm like that. holding up the phone like, "Yeah, you. can hear them smashing the side of our. building." Said, "Well, okay, cool. Speak with the guy who's the team leader. and on your call, if you need to do the. destruction plan, do the destruction. plan.". The destruction plan was a [ __ ].

chisel, a metal tin with some fuel, and. a lighter. That was it. Completely. We. learned so many lessons there. We we got. it completely wrong. But there was a whole bunch of equipment. there. Secret equipment, secret. terminals, computers, never mind all the. [ __ ] machine guns. Like I'm trying to. be we're trying to pretend we're. diplomats, Sean. Right. So I've got a. [ __ ] double breasted jacket on. Do. you know what I mean? And a shirt. And. I'm pretending I'm a diplomat. I'm. covered in tattoos and there's a room. full of machine guns. Like you make that. make sense. It's not a good look, is it? And we don't want them people coming.

into the house to find that cuz they're. going to think we're up to no good. Um, so they breach they breached the outer. wall and now it's like, "Okay, cool. We. need to start we need to start this. destruction because there's there's one. more gate basically and if they get into. that gate, they're into our compound.". Worst case, they'll kill you. Then it's. like a sliding scale back up. There's. like the best case is they'll steal. everything in the house. They'll [ __ ]. probably capture you and hopefully give.

you across to, you know, some sort of. friendly unit. Maybe they'll maybe. they'll [ __ ] hurt you a bit, maybe. they won't. Or they'll sell you to, you. know, some extremist group. You don't. even know who these dudes are. They're. all high. They're all [ __ ] full of. adrenaline. They've got a bunch of dudes. that are clearly military with a bunch. of, you know, military equipment in a. house. It's Yeah, it was a very dicey. situation. There was the team's driving. back as quickly as as they can and then.

we were we've got to do the destruction. plan. So, it's funny. You've got like. the pool boy, Alli, the pool boy with a. chisel, doesn't speak a word of English, smashing up like top secret hard drives. and all this sort of stuff. And we're. trying to like work out what's got a. serial number on it. What can we leave? What can't we leave? The the guy next to. me, he's like on the loudspeaker now. He's broken. Speaks broken, you know, Arabic. He's like, "We're diplomats. this, we're diplomats that, these guys. are outside like that." And it really it.

really hit home. We had like a Ring. doorbell, you know, like the camera. Mhm. And uh this guy turns up and you if. you were to draw like a radical Islamist. terrorist, you draw this guy like. British DPM trousers, chest rig, AK-47, big beard, and a football shirt. Like a. like a red and white football shirt. And. he's ringing the doorbell cuz our. compound looks different from everyone. else's compound. It's got high walls. It's got security on it. It's got barb. wire on it. He's now ringing the. doorbell, ringing the doorbell. And you. just see him look up. He sees the camera.

and he just shoots the camera. But if it. was it was about as close as that front. door is over there. I not only did the. camera go black, I could hear the weapon. report and I'm like, we're in a [ __ ]. serious situation here because if these. guys come through that gate, we're going. to have to we've got we've got a couple. of options. One of them is you fight to. the death, which was my preferred course. of action. I had a machine gun by the. door and I was like, I'll [ __ ] I'll. barricade myself here on if I have to. rather that than get captured. I'd made. that decision in my head. I was like, "Nah, I'm not [ __ ] letting these.

dudes take me. No [ __ ] way. I'll I'll. die on my sword. You know, they're not. going to expect the level of violence. that I'm going to give them when they. come through that door. They just won't. expect it." Um, and I might get away. with it for a while and hopefully. somebody will come and help me, but I. was fully prepared to go the whole way. there. You know, I resigned myself to. that was going to happen. Another course. of action we contemplated was breaching. a hole out of the back door basically. and running across some open ground. which again was. not a great option. Not a great not a. great option. Um.

luckily for us they kind of gave up on. trying to get in that compound right. then. But they got into the other. compounds that had less fortifications. So now we've got three houses. We're the. middle one. Houses either side have now. got guys on the roof. I remember looking. out the the window and there's a dude. with a dragon off up there and I'm like. that's not good because at some point. the guys that he's shooting at are going. to realize he's on that roof and they're. going to start smashing all these. buildings. So I was like, "Fuck me. This. is not ideal." Meanwhile, the guys are. driving back as fast as they can trying. to navigate through all the the.

checkpoints and all the rest of it. But. how they do it is they've just got lines. basically. The first line will come up, they'll expend all their ammunition, then the next line will come up and they. just do that all day and then they build. the burm and then they get behind the. burm so on so forth. So this is not. going away. This is a very very s this. the first time I felt helpless. I. genuinely felt like there's there's no. one coming to get you now. There's this. is it. You know, if they come through. that door, this is you're going to fight. or you're going to die. So, it was dicey. And uh yeah, we're. carrying on with the destruction plan. Then on the JTA, we're going to throw.

you an asset, Aricom. They're going to. send you an asset. And I'm like, thank. God for that something, you know? And uh. they sent me a P3 Orion. Do you know. what P3 Orion is? I don't. It's like a. surveillance boat, but it's not armed, Sean. So, I'm like, [ __ ] yeah, cool. check this [ __ ] dude in. At least. I've got some hellfires or something or. do a show of force and it's like, yeah, we have to stay at this altitude and. we've got no munitions. I'm like, [ __ ]. no good to man the beast to me that you. know what I mean? It's I need I want. jets not coming. So anyway, long story short, the guys. finally make it back through the turpps.

They, you know, uh the fixers basically. negotiate the through the militias. The. militias then give us a guide. They take. the guys all the way to the front door. and they they they pull in through the. gate. Basically, they spoke they've. spoken to the the guys that are outside. They were fairly friendly. Um, they were. a little bit pissed off. They had to. stop their their gunfight to get us. Brits out of the situation. Um, but they. sort of come through the coming through. the gate and the team leader's like, "We've got 2 minutes." So, we have to. [ __ ] empty that house in 2 minutes. Anything with a serial number on it.

Dems charges, [ __ ] rockets, [ __ ]. beltfed weapons, rifles, NVGs, suppressors, comm's kit. It's a lot. You. know, this is a [ __ ] established safe. house. So, we're just [ __ ] throwing. everything in the back of these Land. Cruisers. And then the the [ __ ] the. old guy, he's like [ __ ] having a. heart attack almost. He's not in a good. way. He's panicking. Alli, the pool boy. is running around with the chisel still. You know, the signal is losing his mind. because he's the one that signed for all. this equipment. So, we're all bundle it.

in. And just as we're about to go, the. the the two I see, a guy called George. comes running back. We had this. alsation. He bought this salation from. somewhere and had a bad leg. His name. was Rick. So he comes back and now he's. got this [ __ ] stupid dog in his hand. He's throwing the dog in the car and it. was just it was just such a weird. surreal moment, but it was like that was. my first taste of like low viz. operations. Um, and they're not really my thing if I'm. honest, Sean. It wasn't really something. I was excited about. If I couldn't put a. plate carrier on and run around at. night, you know, assaulting buildings, I. wasn't really interested in it. But it.

was definitely a good education for me. We conducted a NEO, which is like the. evacuation of entitled personnel. So, we. had to do all of that. Interesting story. on that one. Um, completely not our. fault and random, but we, one of the. people that we brought off and put onto. a British warship that had docked up, uh, HMS Enterprise, it was called, um, he ended up being the bomber of the. Manchester Arena. No [ __ ] Yeah, he was. the He was the guy. He was he would have.

this was probably. a few years before, but we we [ __ ]. got him out. Yeah. And it's I don't feel. bad about it because I can't if I let my. [ __ ] head go down there, it'll. [ __ ] But yeah, it's just mental, isn't it? That like. he escaped that country because he had a. entitlement to do so. We put him on a. [ __ ] British warship, sailed him back. to the UK, and then a few years later he. [ __ ] clacked himself off and killed a. bunch of kids at a [ __ ] Ariana Grande. concert. That's the mentality of these. [ __ ] people, you know? But yeah, it.

was it was a really really interesting. um deployment. A lot of a lot of good lessons I learned. from it. Um I know exactly where this. was at. Yeah. There was US personnel. there as well, right? Yep. There was. they left. In fact, we secured this is. when the CIA evacuated. Yeah. Yeah. Two. friends that led that evacuation. Yep. So yeah, it was exactly around that same. time frame. We actually secured the. embassy, the US embassy. um when when they decided that the.

country's imploding, they they withdrew. from the embassy basically and the US. Marine Corps led that and they took. everyone out and they basically said, "If you're the only remaining team in. country, we were the only guys." It was. like everybody had [ __ ] gone at this. point. You serious? Yeah. And they said. to us, "Can you secure the embassy for. us?" And we were like, "Fucking hell, there's like five guys on a dog. Do you. know what I mean? What do you want us to. do?" And they were like, you know, just. just go down there and speak to them. through the through the fixes. Cuz every. there was thousands, hundreds of. thousands, not hundreds of thousands, but thousands of people like outside the. embassy. As soon as the the the dudes. had left, as soon as the staff had been.

evacuated, there were like this big. building. And there was I there was ISO. containers or ConX's conxes full of. equipment like everything from black not. you know not good equipment but. everything from black or knee pads to. [ __ ] head torches or flashlights to. medical kit like shitty play carriers. but like there was a lot of kit there. and they didn't want it just getting. [ __ ] you know uh what's the word. looted basically. Mhm. So our team. leader went down there and you know they. were about to jump over the fence. basically and he's like who's in charge. and you spoke to this guy who was quite.

pissed off at being you know who's this. [ __ ] you know westerner turning up in. a blazer and a [ __ ] pair of deck. shoes telling me not to raid this. embassy and you know fair play to him. He navigated the situation quite well. He was like. we're watching if anyone crosses this. thing we're going to kill you all. And. it it worked for a period of time and. yeah they the guys actually did go in. there. I've got a um. US ambassador. um to the city. I've got a coin that he. left in his desk that one of the lads.

gave me which is pretty cool. Um but. yeah, it was it was a super interesting. time. It was it was the country. imploded. [ __ ] Yeah. And it's it's I. talk about it cuz it's different from a. kinetic operation. Um but as far as low. viz operations go, that one was probably. the most kinetic one for a while. And. like I said before, it's the first time. I think we've ever or first time in a. long time that we've actively had to. [ __ ] deny a safe house like under. fire in in [ __ ] quick order. Um, but. I did I learned a lot about, you know, moving around in those sort of. situations. You know, I was always had a.

always had a pistol on me, always, you. know, covert carry, all of that type of. stuff. We're under the guise of. diplomats with diplomatic plates. We're. not doing. traditional operations, you know. Um, but I got back from that deployment. Well, hold on. How the [ __ ] did you get. out of there? Me personally or that. house? You person, how did you get out. of that country? Uh, I flew out about 4. months later when they opened up the. airport in the city. I flew on an. Africa. You were You were there for 4.

months while that [ __ ] was going on? Yeah. Four four months. Five people and. a dog. Five people and a [ __ ] lame. dog. Yeah. It's cool. It was cool. Cool. Yeah. Holy. I flew. out um via Malta. So I flew out on a on. a they opened up the commercial airline. [ __ ] dude. That was probably the most. dicest thing I've ever done. An Africa. flight from the city to Malta. Landed. We'd actually um recovered a hostage. So. there was a guy that had been captured.

David Bolan was his name um by militants. and he was like an expat teacher. They. told him to leave a bunch of times and. eventually somebody captured him uh and. was holding him ransom. They figured out. that situation. through a third party. They released him. and organized us to go and pick this guy. up. So the guys we picked him up from. weren't the militants. They weren't the. guys that had held him captive. They. were somebody else basically like a. third party and like a mediator type. sketch, you know? So we drive up, we get.

this [ __ ] dude in the back of the car. and he's like he's older guy, you know? He's in [ __ ] state. His body's [ __ ]. We got a medic there. So one of the guys. was a medic. So he's like looking after. him. But they flew us. They flew us a jet from Malta and it was. um it was a it was a government jet. It. was one that the royal family had used. It's like a small private jet basically. to recover this dude for for UK. government. Um and the guys went back to. Malta with him to escort him back. And. the ambassador there was like this is.

the best thing ever. We're so grateful. And basically gave him keys to the city. But we used that jet a few more times to. do um we took a guy called Jonathan Pal. who brokered the Northern Ireland. ceasefire. Um he was like a like a big. political guy that was good at. negotiating you know trucees and. ceasefires. So we were chaperoning him. around whilst we were going to these. meetings and all this this type of. stuff. Um so the boys flew out on that. but I didn't. I flew out early, two. weeks early before the rest of the guys. did cuz I had to go back for a course, the JTAC course. I needed to do a.

refresher or whatever it was. Um, so. yeah, I flew back out. But when I landed. in Malta, they just they were like at. his I think it's a Marup down there by. the by the sea. They were like, you. know, down by the port. I don't know if. you ever been to Malta, but it was like. pent. It was it was like this a room. like this. It was like, there you go. Everything's on the house complimentary. So it's surreal. One minute you're in, you know, North Africa doing all that. stuff. The next minute you're in Malta, which is a holiday destination, this and. then 5 6 hours later you're on a. civilian plight. the civilian flight. back into London Heathrow like with a. bag like straight down to, you know,

back to Heraford in the pub with the. boys for a few, you know, few days and. then onto it like no no no no time to. process or, you know, absorb what's just. gone on. It's just constant, constant, constant. And then it's like, yeah, I. was off to the um fire cell. So this is. where I started to become a JTAC. Started Yeah. started doing backto-back. tours of JTAG. And this is 2014, 15, 16. So like the war was popping in Iraq and. you know in Syria, those places there. and we were just [ __ ] smashing.

smashing ISIS on the flock basically. Um. this is where you work for Delta. This was prior to that. So I did three. deployments of those and there's there. we can talk about them but it was just a. lot of bombing. It was just a lot of of. connect stuff. Um. one of them is quite interesting. We. were the first guys to um to. cross the border from Iraq to another. country. And we drove all the way along. the Turkish border. It was like we left. on uh Christmas.

Christmas morning. We left. We woke up. We had a champagne breakfast in herbal. and then we packed our vehicles up and. we drove [ __ ] for 3 days. Land move. and we set up a [ __ ] uh patrol base. basically in a cement factory. But when. we got there, there was nobody there. I. went back a couple years later and the. whole thing was like the US military had. got hold of it. There was [ __ ] CV22s, med bays, [ __ ] Marines, all kinds of. [ __ ] When we got there, there was our. six-man team, a bunch of unit guys,

probably about 20, 30 of those. Um, about 10 of them were operators. The. rest were support guys. um CBS building. all the infrastructure up, the comm's. guys, a bunch of local militia that were our. security force or partner force and a. bunch of random French dudes. And these. random French dudes were [ __ ] nuts, dude. Like really cool guys, but like. they were so industrious. They're. building [ __ ] all the time. Like we turn. up with like two Land Cruisers, one of. which has got a gun on the top. So it's.

essentially it's a [ __ ] technical. Let's call it what it is. um a bunch of. javelin missiles, thousands of rounds of. ammunition, and a green box full of. booze. That's what we had. And the. French were in there like building all. kinds of stuff, you know. And uh we. wasn't laid back, but we were like. comfortable with it. I remember on New. Year's Eve, we were all sat around. We. had like a little fire pit outside. We whole team was in a room this big. And uh we were outside drinking rum and. you know, shooting the [ __ ] And this. guy comes up out of the out of the dark.

like they were full body armor, you. know, not nods down and he's like he. walks up and he goes, "Is it safe?" And. we're like, "It is now." If you're. patrolling around like that, you you. crack on, mate. You know what I mean? It's like, "Yeah, yeah, New Year's Eve. Have a drink." But um yeah, no, it was. it was it was a cool cool experience to. do that. I was jacking for them as well. So I was jacking for the unit prior to. that. Was working in the cifick, which. is a big um twostar uh strike cell. basically. And you know, you're. operating in a room with 100, 150.

people, red card holders, you've got. coalition jets from all over the world. dismantling targets all over, you know, all over Iraq and, you know, targets in. Syria. And you're just basically. controlling all day. You do an 8 hour. shift and you might drop, you know, thousands of pounds worth of ordinance. Not Yeah. Like I dropped a [ __ ] ton of. bombs and those deployments are [ __ ]. [ __ ] ton. Like metric [ __ ] tons, you. know, and that's not an exaggeration. I. winested like B1 bombers like on a. couple of occasions down at Singar. They. just give me like a A4 piece of paper. with a bunch of grids on it. You you.

send them to the plane and then as the. plane's checking and it will give you a. system readback on the bomb to make sure. that that that coordinates been put in. the bomb. You get them readback of like. 20 desired mean impact points, DMPIs, whatever you want to call them. And uh. yeah, they just blow out. Yeah, cool. That's eight away. Go back for a. reattack. Just doing that. F-15s just. laying waste to all these positions like. serious amounts of ordinance. It was a. really good education for me. But then I. started working for a strike cell um for. the unit which I can't go into a lot of. detail about but it was a completely.

different ball game. We were operating, we had all of Syria and it was just us. and we were just hunting basically and. we were getting a lot of information. coming from the partner force and then. we'd verify it with a drone and then. we'd strike it. And it was all going. back to back to brag where the where the. um the sort of red card holder was. So. every time we'd do a strike, we'd have. to get it approved. We'd have to go. through all the CDE and all the modeling. and make sure the partner force was. happy. Then we drop the ordinance and. then we'd go on to the next one. And I. was just shadowing watching how they did. business. these like 24 STS JTAX. So, they're like dedicated professional. All.

they do is JTAX, whereas I'm an. operator, but I can also JTAX. So, they're at a different level and I'm. trying to learn. But I was just going in. there and hanging out with this guy for. a while and we were just learning. He. was a he was a um B Squadron guy. And um. one day the JTAC was like, "Do you want. do you want to get on the mic?" And I. was like, "It was a quiet night. Nothing. going on. Everything was good legal permissions. wise. I'd done all the spins and stuff, so I was, you know, I was there. It was. completely above board and they trusted. me, you know, and I was like, "Yeah, cool. want to jump on the net. And uh he. was like, "Yeah, cool. Just have a look. around this area, see if there's.

anything, you know, this is where the. forward line of enemy troops is. This is. where the forward line of own troops is. or friendly forces and like basically. anything south of that line is bad." And. I was like, "Ah, cool." So I'm just like. scanning around with the drones and all. of a sudden I see like this [ __ ] mini. bus basically where it's a flatbed bongo. truck, but it's got like 30 dudes on the. back of it and it's just driving up the. road, driving up the road. It stops and. all these dudes get out and they start. fanning out and I'm now checking now. I'm speaking to the strike director. I'm. speaking to him and I'm like, "These. aren't our guys, are we?" Was that? No. Is that right? Go for the partner force. Let's make sure these are not our guys. cuz this is looking nefarious as [ __ ].

Right. So these dudes are now lining up. and it's almost a textbook ambush. So. they've got like a main killing group. Then they've got cut offs and then. they've got like a rear element to it. It's all down the side of this one MSR. that the um the the. whatever they were they Peshmerga SDF or. Peshmerga were going up and down this. road basically and they were waiting for. them to come up and they were going to. light them up. So I'm there spinning up. a strike. I've got uh what did I have? I. had A10s. So, I had a pair of A-10s and. as I'm about to start spinning the. strike up, I'm starting to read them the. nine line and get to, you know, all this.

all this J tackery [ __ ] gunship checks. in. So, I'm like, "Yeah, [ __ ] yeah.". He's like, "We want to do a a. coordinated attack." So, what that means. is like basically the jets will come in. or the A10s will come in and drop bombs. and then as soon as those bombs have hit. the ground, they'll disappear in a. different direction and the gunship just. goes in an orbit and just cleans up. basically. Um, so that's what we did. Like, this is my first control I've ever. done for these guys. This is like a. unicorn patrol, right? You've got like. 30 troops in the open. You've got an. AC-130 gunship and you've got two A10s. and it doesn't get much better than. that, you know. So, I started to spin up.

this strike and I'm I'm not I'm just I'm. in the zone like I am now, you know, just talking away and like before I look. it, there's like a whole bunch of dudes. behind me that from like the command. major there and all kinds of people and. they're just watching. They're just. watching like the J-tax are like making. sure that I'm doing it all properly and. I'm like, are we doing this? And they're. like, "Yeah, [ __ ] send it." So, we. did. We [ __ ] smashed them all to. bits, mate. It was brilliant. Two bombs. went in, took the main body out, and. then it was just gunship after that. It. was just like boom, boom, boom, boom. Yep. Send it. He's like, "Yeah, I've got.

runners away. Yep. Do it again." We. ended up putting a two GB31, which is. 2,000 pounder, straight through. They. went like a culvert underneath the road. There's about six of them that had like. squirted away underneath there. So, he. was like, "Yeah, put a 2,000 pounder in. that." And I was like, "Boom, job done.". And it's weird because you do that like. I don't know 25 EKA 30 EKA EKIA whatever. it was and then you get back into a a. Land Cruiser and you drive back through. Herbal to your accommodation cuz it was. uh we weren't collocated with them. It. was a separate location.

you know past the coffee shops downtown. back into the thing go to bed. It's like. we talked about that book on killing. That's extreme violence at distance and. at reach. And I did that for [ __ ]. three deployments pretty much. And I. I've I didn't pay enough attention to. how much that affected my [ __ ] headsp. space cuz it was dude I've shot people. from here to you away. I've been in all. that stuff like we all have. And that. was different because it was on an.

industrial scale. Like I got a Queen's. commendation for valuable service on one. of those deployments just for sheer just. for sheer volume of of of [ __ ] people. that we're taking companies battalions. off the [ __ ] battlefield. Uh but. you're doing it from reach, you know? You're doing it from a [ __ ] telephone. or a [ __ ] computer or a radio in an. ops room. Like. weird. How did that affect you? Um. I got [ __ ] blas about it really. it I.

didn't really. it didn't really I think it didn't. affect me it didn't do me any good I. know that you know I kind of became. immune to it which wasn't a good thing. to do was I never had a civcad. allegation once I was super diligent. like I don't [ __ ] about when it comes to. making sure that those bombs are going. on the right places and neither did the. units that I was working for it's. extreme professionalism at all times the. pilots are on board the targeteers are. on board the CD modelers are on board. the league ads are on board like red.

card holders. It's not we're not just. bombing [ __ ] for the sake of it. It's. extremely precise, accurate fires. Um, so you get really good at it. You do. You get really [ __ ] dialed into it. and it just became a process really. But. then I look back on it as like I've. literally watched thousands of people. die on [ __ ] TV like and sometimes. you'd get given a list of paper like I. mentioned before, bomb that and you're. like, "Ah, cool." Or you go out like the. other incident I saw with a gunship like. you're hunting. Like that doesn't happen. unless you put the jets where they need. to be. But I don't get any satisfaction. from it because it's like that doesn't.

count. It's like drone warfare now. Like. all this drone warfare [ __ ] I don't. like it. Drones are IDs and I [ __ ]. hate IDs and I don't care what anyone. says. It's a shitty [ __ ] way to fight a. war. Like it's there's no honor in that. And I kind of feel a bit like that with. the JTAC and stuff. I don't take any. satisfaction from it other than the fact. that we did a lot of good for, you know, partner forces and we did shape the. battlefield like and ultimately it. [ __ ] got got rid of a lot of bad. people. But it is quite um it's quite an. intense job. You'd be doing that for 3 4.

months intense and then you come back. and you're back in Heraford. and you're in the pub and you're. drinking and then all of a sudden you're. back out and then you're back in Herford. in the pub drinking trying to manage. being a dad, being a soldier doing that, you know, it's a [ __ ] I did that for a. year pretty much back to back to back. Um it's a lot mate. It was a very. intense period of my life. And then. right at the back end of that, they were. like, "There's a posting coming up to. the unit for one year. Do you want to. go?" I was like, "Of course I do.".

So I did. They sent me over to um to. Bragg. I lived in uh Pinehurst, Southern. Pine, sorry, not Pinehurst. Um lived in. a house there, embedded myself with a. squadron. I was um I was made to feel. super welcome. Like those guys were. [ __ ] rock stars. Honestly, I have. never been so impressed by a team as I. have with those guys there as. assaulters. And I say this with the. utmost respect to everyone else. The.

best assault teams that I've ever worked. with, just primarily on shooting and CQB. and assaulting. There's nothing on earth. that compares to those [ __ ] guys in. that unit. And in my team, I had like. four first draft picks from OTC. So, they were [ __ ] rock stars. [ __ ]. Yeah, it was super impressive. I. remember being humbled the first day I. got there. It was like we went and shot. Bianke cut pistol shoot and uh I was. okay with a pistol with a long gun. I'm. hold my own one hold my own but um at.

the time pistol shooting wasn't really. something that we did that much. We. didn't have red dots like it was there. if you needed it. It was very much a. secondary mentality whereas these guys. are shooting pistol all the time. They. shoot more pistol than they do rifle. So. 5 m 10 m 15 starts to fall off a little. bit. Now I'm back at 20 and guys it's. comedy but they're like handing me. magazines. I'm trying to knock these. plate racks over. Trigger discipline. [ __ ] I'm [ __ ] all over the place. And I was like, "Fuck." Every day we'd. have a shooting competition for the most. part. Half the day would be CQB, half. the day would be shooting or we do some. climbing or some fitness stuff in. between. But for the most part, shooting.

CQB is what we did every day, which is. why they're so good at assaulting. They're not [ __ ] around training guys. to be JTAX or, you know, surveillance. operators or any of that stuff. They're. just thoroughbred assaulters. And they. are, in my opinion, um, the best guys. that I worked with, hands down. Um, so. it was a [ __ ] pleasure that cuz I. love that. I love being an assaulter. When people ask you, I'm an assaultter. That's what I do. I'm CQB instructor, you know, that was that was my bread and. butter. So I realized very quickly that I had to. up the game. So for the first four. months, I used to turn up early at work.

I used to go on the ranges on my own. I. used to stay after work on the weekend, Saturday and Sunday, I'd take a,000. rounds and I'd go on the range and I. just press that trigger, press that. trigger and just learn how to press a. trigger and hold the gun properly and. just pistol, pistol, pistol. and I. stopped finishing sixth and then I. finished fifth and after a while I might. finish fourth some days [ __ ] it I might. even come second or I might even win one. you know and it was just that constant. having to improve like that's where I. really started to dial into the craft. the you know that's where it really. happened because my pistol shooting was. not where it needed to be and I felt a. lot of responsibility going over there. representing my regiment in front of the.

unit in a team of all stars it's a lot. of pressure um so I threw myself at it. and you know that I think that gained a. lot of trust and respect in the squadron. cuz they knew that I sucked a pistol. But I was out there [ __ ] working to. get better and none of them made me feel. like a dick. None of them, there was no. ego, no [ __ ] They adopted me as a. brother straight away. They treated me. like one of their own. Um, invited me to. their homes, met their families. like I. was part of their team and I am deeply.

grateful and deeply impressed by the. organization as a whole, but the. individuals and the the the level of. compassion that they showed me um was. second to none. And I'm and I'm deeply. deeply proud of my time with with the. guys uh at the unit. And you know, fast. forward a few months, it's coming up to. deployment time and I'm like. I remember one of the guys came over to. me and he gave me a US flag. Is that you. going to wear that? And I said, "Am I. allowed to wear that?" And he was like,

"Fuck yeah, you are." So I put my. [ __ ] US flag on my chest and I wore. that with [ __ ] pride. Um, it goes back to my [ __ ] association. with the United States military. I've. been in those [ __ ] fields with those. Marines. I've been in those positions. where them helicopters, if they don't. come, your casualties don't get out. They're putting in those Pedros. They're. putting in those [ __ ] call signs on. on a [ __ ] you know, tiny little hot. landing zone. The RAF weren't coming to. get us. US pilots come and get us every.

single time. You know, the assets that. they gave us, standing side by side with. US Marines fighting, watching each other. bleed and die. Like, I [ __ ] respect. that flag to death and I'd die for it. Um, so to be asked if I would wear it. was one of the proudest moments of my. military career. And I [ __ ] wore that. with absolute pride and I took that flag. to war and yeah, I'm proud that I did. that. It's I've got some [ __ ] cool. pictures from it as well.

It it really did mean a lot to me that I. got to wear that flag. Um, and initially my deployment was kind of. strange cuz my team went to Syria and I. didn't have permissions to go to Syria, which was a weird situation to be in, but they were looking at a different. target set than the one that the UK had. permissions for. [ __ ] bureaucracy, all bad guys. What's the [ __ ]. difference? Kind of was how I looked at. it. So, I spent all of that time working.

up with that that same team like for. months as tight as we could be. Those. teams are way tighter than our troops. for sure. We eat together, we train. together, we shoot together, we lift. together, like everything together. Together, six-man team, six-man team on. Bravo 6, right? So, I'm Bravo 6. And uh. they all go and I don't get to go with. them. I have to go somewhere else. So, I. go to Iraq. So, I'm in Iraq now. My. team's over there and I'm dislocated. from them.

So, I'm out there doing a job down in. Sullyman. We're doing bits and pieces. with a partner force down there, CTD, CTG, all those guys. Great time. And. then troops are major comes and he's. like, "Do you want to go to the ETF?" Which is. the task force. They're the ones doing. the real sexy missions, right? The. raids, the [ __ ] high value targets, not the stuff this different from what. the team in Syria was doing. This was a. different different troop, different. task, different mission set, but it was.

really what I wanted to be doing. And he. was like, I said to him, "Do I have. permission?" He's like, "There's a. helicopter coming in tonight. I suggest. you get on the helicopter. Get up there. and we'll figure it out." And I did. I. got welcomed into the team um. like a [ __ ] brother. They put me in. that chew and I became just one of them. And again, we ate together, trained. together, watched [ __ ] Netflix for. hours together, and then we went on. operations and we [ __ ] tore it up. together. It was a really, really, it was probably the best deployment I've.

ever done. We were flying around in. [ __ ] Black Oaks smashing people up. and it was [ __ ] great. And it was. everything that I wanted and thought. that that unit would be about the level. of professionalism, not only from the operators, but from. the 160th guys all the way down to the. targeteers. Those [ __ ] aviation. pilots are incredible. Like those. nightstalker dudes are [ __ ] it so so. impressive. Um. and it was felt really really close. It. did. I remember when one No, it's the.

second it was the second one. It was the. second job that I did with them. The. troops aren we've been looking at this. compound and the troops uh sorry the TL. of the team. um was like I need you to be off the. Black Orc and I need you to secure that. window on the western side of this. compound. And I'm Roger that SGE like. I've been in the regiment for about. seven, eight years now. Like you want me. to run off a black orc and just cover. down on that one window? I can do that. You understand? I'm like, "Fuck yeah.". So, I do I get out. We landed like as.

we're going on an infield. The uh sorry, on infield, the daps are lighting up. this guest house. They're like literally. as we're coming in, doors are open. Like, we're [ __ ] on the ramp. Sorry. On the on the uh on the the the tailgate. essentially. It wasn't a little bird, it. was a black or sat on the edge of the. bird like this. The doors are open and. you can just see the whole thing. Daps. are coming in shooting [ __ ] with. rockets. So, I was like, "This is. [ __ ] cool." If you can take a like a. snapshot that you do with an iPhone and. just have that picture in your head, it. would be like, "Yeah, this is this is. cool." I come straight off the bird.

straight to where I need to be. What we. thought was a window was not a window. It would just look like that from the IR. signature. It was actually a piece of. like polyyrene and there was a heat. source coming out of it. So my aperture. is not a [ __ ] aperture. It's it's a. [ __ ] So I'm like I'm now redundant. So I'm like I need to get in the fight. here. As soon as we're off, there's a. gunfight happening. people are getting. engaged on um two-way gunfight, unsuppressed weapons going back towards. the assault force. And uh yeah, I sort. of poke my muzzle through the through. this piece of polyyreene, styrofoam,

right? You call it. You the you know. what I mean? They make cups out of it. You know what I'm talking about? So I. like punch this through. It was the. winter time, so used it for insulation. In the summer, I think they pop it out. for for air, but I punched it through. And the guy that we're after pops up. like this out of his bed from no. different from me to you away 3 four. meters and it's our guy clear as [ __ ]. day. He's got the same shitty haircut, same scraggly beard like and he's got. this you can see his weapons right next. to him. He's got a chest rig right next. to him and he's kind of like this. between helicopters landing and me being.

at that aperture seconds. It's that. fast. And I'm there and I see him and he. comes up bolt up right like that and I. can see him just about to do that. So I. just dump three or four rounds into him. straight away. Soon as I do that, somebody else in the room pops up and. he's now trying to get to that weapon. system. So I lit this dude up as well. So this is like within the first minute. of basically being there. Then a [ __ ]. huge explosion goes off in the in the um. the front of the building. This guy had. brought his family into the room that he. was in. He called his family out. So.

they ran across the the frontage of the. building where all the guys were stacked. up. Um a wife and two kids. He brought. them in, called them into the room that. he was in, and then clacked himself off. So, the guys are dealing with that on. the front side of the building. I'm now. maneuvering around the back side of the. building where the rest of my teammates. are locking down the back side and then. it happens. The [ __ ] explosion. happens and I'm just like, "Fuck me.". The whole wall just goes out and goes. back in. It's like, you know, them slow. motion surreal moments. It was really. like that. It was almost silent, but l.

my whole team was stacked up on that. And I literally walk around the corner. and it just goes and there's a [ __ ]. whole bunch of dust and smoke. I get hit. on the head with this [ __ ] big rock. My ears are ringing. This is a crazy. [ __ ] 2 minutes. I've just jumped off. the back of a helicopter, shot a couple. of dudes. Now my team's been blown up. Like this is [ __ ] nuts. Yeah, it's. crazy, mate. And um what had happened is. somebody in that building had clapped. themselves off. There was a whole bunch. of SF vests in this building. Um, but. because of the thickness of the walls,

it had absorbed most of the blast. And. instead of crushing on the guys or. blowing the guys up, what happened is it. actually just blown them out, if that. makes sense. But I didn't know that. So. the team leader looking at me and I'm. going, "Where's the [ __ ] boys?" And. I'm like, "I don't know where the. [ __ ] boys are. They they've got to be. under there." So I'm now trying to. [ __ ] dig out this rubble. There's. tons of rubble here now. And I'm like, my my [ __ ] the dudes are underneath. there. My team is under there. And I'm. [ __ ] I'm like this trying to dig out. And I just see one of them come. wandering around out the out of the dust. completely the wrong way. No helmet on, no rifle, no fuckle. And I'm like I grab.

him and I'm like, are you good? And he's. like, I [ __ ] think so. He's like, where's my gun? Where's my helmet? And. I'm like, dude, don't [ __ ] worry. I. then send him over to the team leader. And then then where's the other two. guys, right? There's a fiveman team. And. the team leader's accounted for. I'm. accounted for. He's accounted for. Two. more guys unaccounted for. And again, one of them's just like when the dust. set was just lying there. He was he. didn't have anything blown off. He was. all his all his intact. He was just in. shock. Pick him up, send him out, find the. other dude. We recover all the.

equipment. It's just a [ __ ] carnage. couple of minutes. But it was like. because of that evening and because of. those events what happened. The squadron. or that troop in particular really. respected me. I think I think I earned. their trust because they knew that I. would do the right thing at the right. time and I would [ __ ] perform when it. really mattered, you know. Um, we had a whole we had a whole bunch of. [ __ ] gnarly [ __ ] jobs like that. I. remember one particular one where we. were closing up on a compound. Again, lessons identified. This where.

experience comes into play. Although I. was in a, you know, a team of rock. stars. Most of those guys had only done. three or four years or maybe five. I'd. done eight and a whole bunch more. deployments. So, I was more experienced. than I was as experienced as the team. leader, but I was still Bravo 6. And I. always was happy to be Bravo 6. Like, so um yeah, this one [ __ ] job we did, the same thing. It was like we tried. calling them out, we get engaged on. infill. We're like, we're not committing. assault force to the building cuz we. keep getting blown up. This is like.

every single time we go near these. buildings, they clack themselves off. without fail. You could almost you could. almost set your watch by it. It's that. predictable. So, we're going to change. our TTPs and tactics. We're just going. to stand off and just call these call. these [ __ ] dudes out. We don't need. to get close on the building. We learned. our lesson the hard way. Luckily, no one. got hurt the first time, so we backed. off. But then it's like, come out. They're like, they start firing guns at. us. It's like, cool. Hit it with the. daps. So, the [ __ ] daps will light it. up. So, same again. Come out. No, they. fire back. Cool. Get the ranger platoon. up here. They'll fire cold gust off at.

it. Boom. And you just do this counter. mouse game until either the building's. destroyed or there's no more fire. Like, we need to get the SSE. We can't just. kill these people, blow the building up, and leave. Like, ultimately, the minute. you fire a shot at us or you don't come. up with your hands out, you bought a. ticket. you voted. You ain't it's only. going to end one way. Like these guys. are not [ __ ] around. You understand? But we don't want to just destroy the. building cuz otherwise what's the point. of us being there? We might as well have. done that with a [ __ ] 500 pounder, you know? So, we need to get this.

[ __ ] information. So, anyway, we're. going up. We're closing. And we think. we're clearing this building. There's. like a row of it's all burnt out at this. point, but like there's a row of um. rooms and we're working sequentially. now. So, it's my team. We're going from. room to room to room working up to this. end one. And we're fragging every room. now. So it's hang grenades are going. into every single room. Then we're then. we put the dog in it. Then we clear it. Right. So this this is this is kinetic. And I can start to hear praying. I can. start to hear it. And I'm like, am I. [ __ ] losing my mind here? And I've. got these peltors over the ear peltors.

So I pop my little thing out and sure as. [ __ ] I can hear this dude praying. And. that's never a good sign because he's. going to [ __ ] clack himself off in a. minute. So I'm like when you and I tell. him I was dude there's somebody in. there, you know, pelt around. He's like. what? And I'm like, "There's somebody in. that room." And he's like, "Is there?". And I'm like, "I can hear the I can hear. him, dude." Like, "That's how close we. are at this point." And he's like, "Fuck." All right, cool. So, we put the. dog in. In fact, we didn't put the dog. in. The dog got wind of it and [ __ ]. was in there straight away. So, now. we're in a we're in a bad situation cuz. we've got a dude in there that's.

definitely going to try and clack. himself off and he's 100% armed. And. we've got a dog, which is part of our. team in there. So, now we we can't just. put grenades in there. can't just put a. T- bomb or you know whatever it is we. want to do to it. We can't fire up. hellfire. We don't want to lose the dog. obviously. Luckily by cuz they don't normally come. off the bite. We got got the dog off the. bite. Dog comes off the bite and then. it's like now it's posting grenades, you. know. That's how that's how intimate. that is now to the point where it's like. we're [ __ ] having grenades [ __ ].

thrown at this geyser to to to. neutralize the threat, you know? But it. was extremely violent those deployments. like those those raids there was either. it was all or nothing with those with. those raids and that target set. It was. either yeah they come out with a hands. up they get detained no shots fired all. good or it was like they are fighting to. the [ __ ] bit of death and it is going. to go on all night you know to the point. where. it almost becomes not worth going. because we know that that's going to. happen. So, it's like, let's just. [ __ ] cut the comedy and just smash it. with a 500 pounder and give up on this.

because how many operators do we need to. risk to get that hard drive or whatever. it might be, you know? But, we always. did it and we made it work. But the. level of professionalism that those guys. had, second to none. That so so. impressive, that unit. And um. I came back from that deployment. Well, there was some other stuff with with um. so so so. Matt Matt Tom was a good friend of mine.

He was out in Syria working his job for. the regiment. He was a B squadron guy. and um he was hanging around with my. team. Remember I told you my team was. over there, my six-man team. So he used. to phone me up and the TL used to phone. me up and be like, you know, oh, I've. got a new Bravo 6. You're not Bravo 6. anymore. Matty's Matt's taking your. spot. And I'm like, [ __ ] You know, like. the [ __ ] going on? It's just [ __ ]. talking. It's all good fun. But um when. I got out there,

he wasn't going on the ground. They were. just he was training them to do sniper. [ __ ] or whatever he was doing and the. partner force. And he didn't really have. that connection with M until I turned. up. And um so there's two mats, one's. the team leader and one's Matt Tom. So I kind of sat down with Matt Tom and. I was like, "Why the [ __ ] aren't you not. going on the ground?" He was, "Oh, I. just haven't really asked, you know, I. didn't really, you know, I didn't want. to step on anyone's toes. You know, they're doing their own thing." I said, "Fuck that, dude. You're an awesome. opera. Why the [ __ ] would they not want.

to have an extra pair of eyes on the. ground?" So I speak to Matt and I'm. like, "Do you do you mind if if Matt goes on. the ground with you?" Like, "Can can you. do that?" He's like, "Yeah, [ __ ]. hell. If you vouch him." And I'm like, "Yeah, dude. I [ __ ] trust. I'd go. through the door of him. Like that's the. biggest compliment an operator can tell. anyone. I'd [ __ ] go through the door. with him any day of the week. So he's. like, "Yeah, cool." So he starts going. out on the ground and I was there for, you know, a little while and we did some. we did some jobs together. Um.

then the deployment finishes for us. He. stays. He's on a six-month rotation and. we've come halfway through his. So we do. our four months and we go home. new. squadron, a squadron come out. and it's only a couple of weeks of being. back in brag trying to [ __ ] get your. head around that mad deployment. and I get a phone call and they're like, "Matt's been killed.". And I was like, "What do you mean Matt's.

been killed?" And I Matt's been killed. as something's happened and John Dunar's. been killed as well. I [ __ ] couldn't shake it, man. For so. long. I was I felt so [ __ ] so guilty. So. if I had introduced him, he wouldn't. have been on that [ __ ] job, you know? That's how I felt about it. And it's. taken me a long time to come to terms. with that. And I know it's not that. And. he wanted to be on that he wanted to be. on that [ __ ] job.

But. I don't know. It's [ __ ] That's a hard. one for me. Like I [ __ ] love that. dude, you know? And I'm [ __ ] so sorry. for him and John and their families. And. that [ __ ] broke my heart, man. It. really did. Um, that caused me a lot of [ __ ] problems. for a long time. I started to to drink a. lot. Um, I couldn't shake that feeling of guilt.

I still feel it some days more than. others. Um, and it was just so hard, man. We had. funerals on both sides of the [ __ ]. both sides of the Atlantic. The the guys. from the unit flew over for Mats. We had. guys fly over for John's. It was like it. ripped our community in half, man. And I. know I know, you know, it's what we do, but it [ __ ] this This was when I stopped. running, Sean. That explosion and that.

the explosion blew the lid off that box. that I told you about before. That was. real time for me. I thought all my. teammates were dead that day. They. weren't. I was lucky. But then when Matt. died, I [ __ ] that was it. That was. what [ __ ] tipped me. And that was 10. years of constant warfare at this time. and it all just [ __ ]. came out and I just [ __ ] lost it. I. lost my [ __ ] mind, dude. I finished.

that deployment with those guys. We. buried Matt. We buried John. And then. about 2 weeks after that, I went back to the UK. And then very. shortly after that, I deployed. back out with um my own squadron. It was. our squadron's time to go out. So I had. no time to process that. And I got to theater and they were like,

"You're going to go and be the LN O with. the unit." So I was back with the unit. for another four months, which I was. [ __ ] happy about. A little bit with A. Squadron and then with B Squadron, with. Kyle Morgan, actually. We said, we. shared a team. We're in the same team. And I was just straight back into the. fight. And I was [ __ ] drinking hard. I was [ __ ] getting after it. Like. I was taking testosterone. I was. drinking whiskey. I was getting in.

gunfights. I was [ __ ] all of it. And. I was just [ __ ] hurting. I was. [ __ ] dying inside, you know. And uh. yeah, I did. I did a lot of damage to myself during. that period. I lost my grandma as well. And my grandma was as close to me as, you know, she was the one consistent. factor in my life growing up. I lost. her. I had to go back on RNR. Last time I ever saw her. Um, so I had.

to go back on my RNR to to do that. funeral. Matt obviously a very close family. friend lost their daughter who was. exactly the same age as my my daughter. A freak accident. A rock fell off a. cliff and hit her in the head. Beautiful. baby girl. You know that my used to play. on my door. So that hit home and then. yeah there was a [ __ ] bunch of other. [ __ ] with a helicopter crash. We lost.

one of the 160th guys. I watched that I. watched that bird go down and I watched. that team. get [ __ ] smashed to bits. I came off. the back of the with four four birds. landing and I was on three. judge 33 and they were on judge 44 and. I'm on the left side port side door as. we're going in. They fire the IR rocket. to the DZ. It's a really dark night. As. I go off the bird, the last thing I do. is I let look over and there's load of. like what looks like sometimes when the.

the dust and the the sand from the. helicopters, it's like a little white. light. You can see it. It's like, you. know what I mean? It's like it like. glistens in in in like So I see that and. I'm like, "Okay, cool. Judge for falls. down and as I get off the bird iron clip. running towards target and I just see. this [ __ ] debris field everywhere. I'm like this is [ __ ] weird. I'm like. what is that? And then I look over and I. just see the the rotor gear the top gear. you know the bit that sticks out the top. of the helicopter where the um the. blades are attached and it's just on the. side. It's on the floor and I'm like. [ __ ] And I look over I'm the I'm like.

literally the closest guy to it at this. point. And I look over and the [ __ ]. bird is down and it's on its side and. it's like [ __ ] the [ __ ] but that's. not hard landing. That's a [ __ ] crash. and there's [ __ ] dudes all over the. place. It [ __ ] hit the deck basically. and it had gone like that and as it went. the guys were getting ready to jump out. the birds. So some of them are unclipped. now. So they're getting thrown out. Some. of them are clipped. There was guys. clipped onto the bird as it's like 2 or. 3 ft across the the ground underneath it. basically being dragged along. Anyway,

we lost the pilot. The pilot was killed. Um, all the boys were [ __ ] up, man. It was. just a [ __ ] [ __ ] show. [ __ ] dudes wandering around like. dudes do. It's like, "Where's my nods?". Like, "Fucking, never mind your nods, bro. It's [ __ ] bigger fish stuff. right here, you know?". And I remember running back to it and. then being told, "No, go and lock down. your position." And that professionalism. then, I know it doesn't sound callous, but that was [ __ ] impressive. We've. just had a helicopter crash. Continue.

[ __ ] Charlie Mike go to your. position, lock down the compound and we. did. We [ __ ] dealt with that mascow. situation and then we got right back to. work. That [ __ ] impressed me deeply. and we [ __ ] those dudes up that night. and we got everything we needed. And. that was that was another cat and mouse. game of going in and going back out. throwing grenades. All right, cool. We're not playing this [ __ ] game. anymore. We ended up smashing it with a. GBU39, which is a 250lb bomb coming off. the gunship. That's what that was the. end of it. We were like, "Nah, we're.

[ __ ] done playing games of you, dude. We've given you [ __ ] multiple. chances. We've got [ __ ] we've got. fallen angels. We are not [ __ ] around. tonight." So, we smashed those dudes up. pretty [ __ ] good, you know. And uh. damn. We got to the morning. and we were like, we all thought they. were just going to take us back and they. were no, you're staying on the ground. We was like, "Why don't we deny the. helicopter?" I was like, "No, we are not. having another [ __ ] Mogadishu here. We are not leaving that [ __ ] bird. here. We've lost people here and there's.

no [ __ ] way on God's earth. Are we. going to stand by and watch people jump. up and down on that helicopter? We ain't. doing that. We're staying and we're. covering every single [ __ ] piece of. it. And that's what we did. We stayed on. the ground all day, all night, 36 hours. We were on the ground. We called on that. helicopter. The teams came in. We. recovered it. They did a land convoy. They drove in. They loaded that bird and. they took it back to where it needed to. be. And we did not leave a [ __ ]. single piece of US material on that. [ __ ] battlefield. And rightly so, you. know, like [ __ ] those dudes. You don't.

get that from us. We don't give you. nothing. They take everything and give. you nothing, you know. And I was. impressed by that, too. You know, just. the whole. mindset and mentality of that. I've said. this before and I'll say it again. British officers are built and bred to. be politicians. US officers are built to. be war fighters. I [ __ ] firmly. believe that. some of the command. decisions that were being made on the. ground that night by those by those. leaders. is deeply [ __ ] impressive. And I can.

only say how proud I am to have been. part of it. And that's why that flag. means so much to me. That's why moments. like that. But um yeah, that was that was a [ __ ]. bad time in my life, dude. There was a. lot going on. After that, I went I'm still deployed. now. I'm still I'm still in theater. And. I finished my four months with that. squadron. And I go back to finish off.

the remaining two months. with my own squadron. And I am [ __ ]. drinking. And I am not giving a [ __ ]. about anything. Life. I didn't care. I. just didn't care. I was just trying to. be anything. And it all came to a head. one night. And uh I had to go home. They're like, "Jay, you need to [ __ ]. go home, bro. You need to you need to go. home and you need to [ __ ] rest." And. I did. I was burnt the [ __ ] out. And I.

had nothing to give. I was I was done, man. And for the first time ever, I had. to take a knee. I drove so hard and so. fast for so long and never stopped that. the wheels came off. And that's exactly. what happened. And I went back and took. some time out of the squadron and. tried to process it all. Tried to. process 10, 15 years of [ __ ]. continuous combat. Continuous [ __ ]. combat. And I just couldn't do it. I didn't have.

the strength. I didn't have the tools. And uh. all the [ __ ] body armor and gunships. in the world can't save you in those. fights, you know. And I didn't do very well it. I really. didn't. And and I'm resentful for the fact that. when you put your hand up and say, "I. need a [ __ ] break." You get labeled. There's a stigma that comes with that. Mhm. I don't care what anyone says. You. get downgraded. They take you off the.

bat. You're not deploying. You're not. allowed to even [ __ ] play with guns. So the one thing that I had, my [ __ ]. safety net, they took that away from me. And they put me in some [ __ ] shitty. job. And they were just like, "Yeah, you go and do your thing." I said, "I. [ __ ] help. I need help." And they. [ __ ] didn't give me enough. And when. they did give it to me, they made me. feel like [ __ ] for taking it. And I. [ __ ] hate them for that. But um.

I took some time out. I did and I was. like, "Right, I need a new hobby." And. so I took up boxing and I fought in a. regimental boxing show which is. thousands of people and normally. operators don't do it. They bring in the. army team or the navy team and they'll. box each other and it's a it's a money. spinning exercise. People come and. donate, celebrities and all this. [ __ ] and Tom Hardy and all these. kind of people come to it. Bra's like, "No, if it's in our [ __ ] building. then there should be operators.

fighting." So I took up boxing and. they're like, "Jay, this fight's in 3. months." I was like, "I know." He's. like, "Have you ever boxed before?" And. I'm like, "No." Like, "This is no joke. These are like legit. You're going to be. in there with a legit boxer that's. probably been doing this a long time." I. was like, "Fuck it. Can't be without. I'll learn." So I went and lived in. London. Took some time off work and just. trained train train for for 3 months. Lived. My friend's a pro boxing coach, so I lived like a fighter. I lived in a. tiny little one-bedroom flat. I trained. three times a day. I didn't drink. I did. everything I could to get my mind right. And eventually.

fight comes along. I feel like I'm finally back on track. I. feel like I've regained some control. And you know, I had to have something to. focus on, Sean. You know, that's why I. took up boxing. I was like, well, these. [ __ ] ain't going to let me. shoot anymore. And I damn sure ain't. going to be able to go back to to to. theater. So, I need something. So, I'm. training for this fight like a. professional. I put my heart and soul. into it, mate. And um the night after I. go out for a couple of celebration.

drinks with my friends, you know, and uh. I've got two black I didn't win the. fight. Um unsurprisingly, like I got two black eyes and some woman. comes up to me. She starts talking to me. like I'm a piece of [ __ ] Oh, where have. you been doing? What have you been. doing? She's come up to me and uh I'm. like, "Sorry, what?" She goes, "Oh, have. you been boxing?" I was like, "Yeah, I. was in the uh I was in the show. yesterday." She goes, "Oh, it doesn't. look like you won." She completely tried. to humiliate me in front of my friends. basically. So I said, "Sorry, who the [ __ ] are. you?" And she's like, "Oh, don't you.

know who I am? My my husband's a s. major." And I was like, "I don't give a. [ __ ] who your husband is. Like I'm sure. he wouldn't be that impressed with you. coming up to dudes on the [ __ ] you. know, talking the way you're doing.". She's like, "I know the commanding. officer. I'll get you fired." And at. this point here, I'm like, "You [ __ ]. don't talk to me like that. Never. [ __ ] come on to me. I don't care who. you are at this point. Like you're so. disrespectful and like you are not your. husband when it comes to rank. do not. try and pull that [ __ ] with me, you. know. Anyway, she goes off and then. writes up some [ __ ] story. I get. pulled in. They give me a three-month. warning. I get punished. It's just like.

the [ __ ] hypocrisy of it is just I. gave my heart and [ __ ] soul to train. for that fight. And she comes up to me. like that and I get punished after. everything that I've just [ __ ] done. there. And like that was the start of. it, man. That was when I started to lose. the [ __ ] will to live. Literally, I. was like, I can't win. I can't win if I. do. I can't win if I don't I dedicate my. life. I don't train. I don't, you know, I don't drink. I train, pick up a sport. I represent my regiment in the boxing. ring in front of a thousand. It's quite. it's quite a scary thing to do. Get in. front of all of your peers under them.

lights and get in the ring with somebody. and box, especially if you don't know. how to do it. So, I was [ __ ] angry about that, dude. Really [ __ ] angry. And uh. yeah, it was that that was like, no, you. you're not going to be in the squadron. any longer. You've got to go and do. another job. So then I was given the job of being a. CQB instructor and that was great. That. was [ __ ] great because I had. something to [ __ ] focus on again. And. that's when I started coming up with,

you know, looking found GBRS and. was looking across and I had people that. looked up to me and I had purpose and I. became a subject matter expert in the. thing that I loved. Being a C chief. instructor of the CQB cell in the. regiment is the best [ __ ] job in the. world bar none. Period. in my mind I was. winning again. But um. I just couldn't shake that [ __ ]. feeling. I just couldn't [ __ ] shake. it of just hopeless. Damn, there's nothing I can do that's.

going to make me feel any better. So I'm. like, [ __ ]. I can't win. And I felt like that. And I. and I stopped going to see the nurses, like the therapists, because every. single time I walked into that office, she'd make me fill out a form that said. PTSD on the top of it, and it's [ __ ]. degrading. Like, don't talk to me like. there's something wrong with me. Look at. my military history. Look all the [ __ ]. that I've been through and put myself. through. I'm not No one's accountable. for that but me. Like, stop asking me if.

I'm going to kill myself. Do you. understand? Like, do better. and she admitted it, you know, and. again, I want to bring this up because. it was [ __ ] woeful the support that. we got. And I know my friends have been. through similar experiences and they'll. say the same thing. And it might seem a. little bit unfair me saying this on here. cuz they can't defend themselves. So, I'm not going to name people because. I've got more class and dignity than. that. But what I would say is if they. are watching this, they need to do. [ __ ] better because these operators. need it and they deserve it. And I felt. that personally and I felt let down. I.

did. And to be punished for some. [ __ ] that didn't even happen. No one. asked for my side of the story, you. know? It just sent me spiraling. It just sent. me spiraling and spiraling to the point. where I just [ __ ] ended up in a car. with a [ __ ] pistol. That's how I got. there. I did too many deployments too quickly. without processing it is my learning. point from that. And I thought, my ego thought that I.

could handle it. and that I would be all. right. And I wasn't until I wasn't. And then I really wasn't. And it was too. late. And I couldn't stop it. And the only way I could stop it was to. do that. That's what I thought. And uh yeah, I'm. not [ __ ] proud of it, but now I know what that looks like. I. know what rock bottom is. And I'm never. [ __ ] going there again. Never. Never.

Never. Never. And I'm grateful for that, you know. Now I've got a superpower. Now. I know what the bottom really looks like. and I'm nowhere near that, you know. But that was a [ __ ] crazy crazy. period of my life that was like 2018. basically from 200 well if you really. want to go back from my first deployment. 2008 all the way up to. 2018 which at that point it was that was.

10 deployments. 10 years, [ __ ]. multiple different jobs, selection, trying to be a [ __ ] dad, Afghanistan. four times, [ __ ] god knows where. else. North Africa, Iraq, a whole bunch of [ __ ] whole bunch of. shits happened in that time. And I just. just didn't deal with it. I couldn't. didn't know how. And I I hope you know. if [ __ ] some person sees what I'm.

saying and goes if that sounds if you. sound like me, you got to [ __ ]. address it, boys. I'm telling you, there's too many [ __ ] dudes putting. their [ __ ] uniforms on and hanging. themselves in garages. We got to stop. it. And the only way to do it is to face. it. And it's the scariest thing I ever. [ __ ] did. It terrifies me because I. don't know the answer. I don't know how. to solve it. It's not a CQB problem. There's no there's no doctrine for it, you know? It's hard. It's [ __ ]. difficult. And I'm grateful and I truly truly truly.

am grateful for the support that I've. been shown by people. and I mentioned it before. If it wasn't for DJ and Cole giving me. that lifeline, I'd be [ __ ] lying in a ditch in the. Ukraine somewhere or I'd be [ __ ] I. wouldn't be sat here. I can say that. with certain. So, you know, again, I'm truly grateful. I'm truly thankful to have good people. around me. You know, I'm blessed and I. am still in the fight and I ain't ever. going back there. And I'm only going one.

way now and I'm getting stronger and I'm. getting wiser and I'm getting more. emotionally intelligent. I'm getting. more in touch with myself and I'm being. kinder to myself. I don't I give myself. a bit more slack these days than I used. to. But um. yeah, it's not [ __ ] easy to do. That CQB job did did help me though. It. did. How are you doing now? I'm good. I am, believe it or not. I look like a mess. tonight, but um I'm good. I'm really.

good. Um I'm happy. There's no dark. clouds on the horizon. My relationship. with my daughter is is not perfect. I I. can do more, but it's the best it's ever. been. Um we on vacation recently. together. She's so cool. We hang out. I'm happy. Does she know any other. stuff? M. No, I can't. I'm not strong enough to tell. her face to face. I can't.

I'm weak when it comes to that, you. know. Is she going to watch this? She will. Maybe we'll watch it together. It's very difficult to have that. conversation with a 15-year-old. You know, but in some way, on some level, I hope. that when she does see this, maybe me not showing up for that. birthday party makes a bit more sense.

now. There were times out there I. couldn't be a dad. I just couldn't I. didn't I couldn't I would have been it. would have been. it would have been a bad [ __ ] idea, you know? So, if I didn't turn up that. day, it was because there was some stuff. going on I had to kind of figure out, you know? I don't want to see me like. that, can't I? How do you think she'll handle this? Well, she's level-headed.

She'll see it. And it's important to me. because I need her to know who I am. And I need her to know that I am never. ever going back to that place. I've. already been there. It's not like I need. to see it. I've already seen it. I know. what it's like. And I hope she takes. some strength from that because. I am fully focused on trying to be. better in every way I can. And. I got to get this out of my system. This.

helps for sure, but I want I don't want. to have to lie to her anymore. I don't. want to have to pretend that I'm okay or. I've been all right. You know, I am now. I'm good, but like. I just want her to know who I am, you. know? That's all I want. I'm really happy you're doing this. Huh? I'm really happy you're doing this. I. am. I'm trying, man. I think she will. be, too. I hope so. She's a level-headed. girl, man. She She'll get it. Like,

but. that's why when people put pressure on. my family or they start to do things. that hurt my family, especially if it's. my own people, my tolerance for it is. [ __ ] less than zero. My empathy for. you is zero. And I'll be ruthless in my. pursuit of of getting what's right and. what's right for not only for my family, but for the other families cuz there's a. million stories just like mine. I'm not. alone. I know I'm not. There's a million. other guys out there. There's a squadron.

full of them on both sides of the. Atlantic. Doesn't matter what color that. flag is, what shape that patch is. SWAT. team guys, law enforcement guys, firefighters, you know, it's not even. just military guys, young men all across. there. There's an epidemic of mental. health issues and people don't like. saying mental health issues. Let's. [ __ ] call it what it is because if we. don't then guess what happens. And if. if by actually saying it and actually.

addressing it, it gives somebody maybe a. little bit of confidence to go and. talk to somebody or just even. acknowledge it personally. then it's. [ __ ] worth it. So, I'm glad we're doing this, too. Good. Take a break. Sure.

Saw this building. We're high. [Music].

I know everybody out there has to be. just as frustrated as I am when it comes. to the BS and the rhetoric that the. mainstream media continuously tries to. force feed us. And I also know how. frustrating it can be to try to find. some type of a reliable news source. It's getting really hard to find the. truth and what's going on in the country. and in the world. And so one thing we've. done here at Shawn Ryan Show is we are.

developing our newsletter. And the first contributor to the. newsletter that we have is a woman, former CIA targeter. Some of you may. know her as Sarah Adams, call sign. superb bad. She's made two different. appearances here on the Shawn Ryan show. and some of the stuff that she has. uncovered and. broke on this show is just absolutely. mind-blowing. And so I've asked her if she would.

contribute to the newsletter and give us. a weekly intelligence brief. So it's. going to be all things terrorists, how. terrorists are coming up through the. southern border, how they're entering. the country, how they're traveling, what. these different terrorist organizations. throughout the world are up to. And. here's the best part. The newsletter is. actually free. We're not going to spam. you. It's about one newsletter a week, maybe two if we release two shows. The. only other thing that's going to be in. there besides the intel brief is if we. have a new product or something like.

that. But. like I said, it's a free CIA. intelligence brief. Sign up. Links in. the description or in the comments. We'll see you in the newsletter. All right, Jay, we're getting ready to talk about what. you what you originally came here for. Yeah. And um. but before we do, I I just want to say. thank you for for being so open and.

talking about all that stuff. I know. it's it's it's not easy to revisit that. kind of stuff, but No, it's important. I'd bounce that thank. you right back to you and say thank you. for giving me the opportunity to do. that. Um. and I think it is important. It's. important. for me for lots of personal reasons, but. I also think it's important that you. don't waste an opportunity like this and. that you have to be a bit brave.

sometimes and if you don't then you. can't affect anything. And you know I. want. There's good that comes from this. situation. I'm in a good spot now. And. I'm in a good spot because I have. had to and I'm willing to acknowledge. everything that I've just talked about. and be aware of it and have that level. of emotional um awareness. And it's.

helped me out an untold amount by just. being able to look in the mirror and. understand. where it is I've been. and how far I've. come and how lucky I am and how much. good stuff I've got going on in my life. and how grateful and thankful for it I. am cuz I really truly am and I'm in a. really really good spot now and long may. it continue. Um. but you got to air that stuff out. You.

got to do it. You can't keep it in. Like. trust me, you know the drill. Like it. doesn't work. and I've been a test case. for that myself and I know it doesn't. work and I'm never doing it again. So, thank you. Sure. My honor and you're. welcome. Thank you, brother. Let's get. into it. Let's talk about your last. operation. Yep. 2022. Um. I was an assault team leader. So, not a. troop sergeant major, but an assault.

team leader. So, I was in charge of a. fire team essentially. Um but I was also. a targeteer. Uh, and we'd been watching. this guy. conduct attacks. He was uh the partner. forc's number one target that they. wanted. Um, he was an assassination cell. leader. He done a whole bunch of. nefarious stuff. We'd watch him open and. carry weapons, which was very rare. It. shows one of two things. naivity or full. radicalism because they don't open carry.

because they know we can see it. So if. they do, then it means they're they're. they're serious. Um they're true. believers. So anyway, after, you know, weeks at this point of gathering. information, intelligence, um. watching these guys do all kinds of, you. know, bad stuff. Basically, we was. ordered to um conduct a detention. operation on this target, which I.

planned. or was involved in the planning with. heavily and we did everything we could. to mitigate risk to force uh and. mitigate risk to mission. um by. our planning process and. our professionalism in terms of trying. to put ourselves in the most. advantageous position in order to. capture um and detain this individual. which was the main goal. The objective. of this operation was to detain this. individual as we had done successfully.

dozens of times before on that. deployment and we were in a good spot. with it. We understood the human. terrain. We understood the location. We. had spent. hundreds of hours at this time of. manpower, ISR, and we had a good handle. on the situation. So, the order was. given, signed off from the highest level. um from my regiment to go down and. attempt to capture um this individual.

So on the night of the operation, uh July 3rd, 4th, uh we went down and. that morning he'd conducted uh an. assassination on a local checkpoint and. we observed him wearing a suicide vest. And I remember coming in that morning. and being like, damn, looks like he's. got a vest on. And then we get reports, human reports, telling us that, yeah, that's exactly what what's been going. on. and he's now driving around this.

town with that vest on as a status thing. to say, you know, this is what I'm. about. Doesn't change a thing for us. We. approach the same operation as we would. do anything. You know, we there's no. more or less diligence put into it. Due. diligence is always applied and we try. our very very best as professionals to. make sure that we are not putting. ourselves in unnecessary risk and that. we're dealing with the situation u in a. professional manner. So, it doesn't make. any difference to us. It doesn't change. how we look at it. It doesn't change our. mindset. Doesn't change our approach to.

this target. It's just another target. And we would consider all people to be. of high threat. This one was just active. at that time. So anyway, through a series of events, we uh we moved down on vehicle uh and. the primary location that we had planned. to do the operation had changed last. minute because he's now hiding um in a. rural location which we know and have. observed before to be a hideout location. where they go um to C weapons which. we've seen there to plan attacks and to.

basically hide out um when they think. the local partner force is probably. going to come and try and do a raid. He. was right, you know. But unfortunately. for him, we'd been watching him for. weeks, so we knew exactly where he was. going to go. And sure enough, that's. where he was. Anyway, as we move closer. towards the target, he gets spooked. He. then moves off uh into a different. location, and we go firm where we are, and the decision is made to pursue into. uh an urban area, which we don't take.

lightly because we've planned. meticulously and in detail for a very. long period of time. executing the operation on a specific. place on the on the ground. So, we. understand it. We've got, you know, all. the positions are there and all the. cordons and all the rest of it. So now. we're having to take a little bit of. time to just re-evaluate the plan, do a. risk assessment and understand the. situation that we are potentially. walking into and does it merit the the. sort of risk versus reward conversation.

which to us it did and we were. comfortable with what we did. comfortable with the decisions that we. were making at this point. So, we get. off. the initial target and we start moving. into the urban area where this guy has. gone back to his original location, his. original house. Um, he's picked up a. couple of other individuals that we know. to be um assassination cell members. Uh, and now moving to a third location,

which is a known weapons case, and we. know it's there because we've got the. intelligence reports and the ISR footage. to back that up. So, it's all matching. in line with pattern of life. It's all. nefarious. And he's already tried to. avoid capture one time when he heard our. vehicles. So, now he's effectively moved. to another position and then a further. position to avoid capture. So, our. intention never changes. We are there to. conduct a detention operation.

We get out of the vehicles. As soon as. we get out of the vehicles, we're. engaged multiple times from different. firing points. very difficult to PD. those firing points at night and in that. that time frame. You've got multiple. radios going off. There was no aviation. The J-TAC couldn't get the the um. Apaches overhead quick enough. Um so we. were basically on our own and now we're. in a very dangerous situation. You have. to understand Sean that we are not on. the original target that we planned. We. are now in a place of his choosing in.

the night against guys that are armed. We know them to be armed and are now. engaging us actively. We are I'm not. going to go as far as to say troops in. contact because that has a different. connotation in my brain. That's that's a. different thing. But we are under fire. for sure. Um. and everybody in the task force. acknowledges that there's like 50 people. on the ground and everyone's seeing what. we're seeing. This is not just my. opinion. And this is fact that's been. backed up by dozens of witness.

statements at this point, ISR footage, etc., etc. We get out, we move into an. L-shaped. formation, which is exactly what we. would employ to do a detention. operation. At this point here, there is. absolutely. zero doubt in my mind that this is a. very dangerous situation. But we are. making every single attempt we can to. capture this guy, detain him. We're. still taking incoming rounds into the. into the team. Now, I see people.

maneuvering and he's not maneuvering. away. He's not move maneuvering in a way. that's peaceful. He's not got his hands. up. He's not. He is moving in an. aggressive manner and he is moving. tactically and when I mean tactically I. mean up down like soldiers move when. they're moving into position. Now I know. that there's weapon cases around it and. we're under fire so I have to be you. know I have to make decisions on what. I'm seeing in front of me. Um so I make. the decision to engage the target. It's.

it's hostile intent to me all day long. It's a threat to my teammates and it's a. threat to myself. Um and the rules of. engagement are there to help us and this. is you know well within our rules of. engagement for the most part but we are. there to to detain this guy but he is. now trying to fight us basically. So my team and I we return fire and we. start to maneuver up on this on this. element. So, we know that there's four. people, right? And we are getting closer. towards the target and I engage one of.

the targets from roughly 130 m and get. effective hits on target essentially. And we're still maneuvering up towards. the thing. So, in my mind, there's four. there's there's four people out there. And this is highly dangerous. So, we're moving with extreme caution. and due diligence, making sure that. we've always got one foot on the ground, making sure that we're communicating to. our satellite and call signs and making. sure that everyone is aware of what. we're doing. There are no fracture side. issues, and we're now closing up on the. enemy as per good doctrine. Okay. As we.

start to get closer, you can start to. see this individual moving um still. moving away from us and like across our. path, not backwards, not forward, not. surrendering um and not putting his. hands up. And this is immediate threat. Now we're in a a farm farmland. basically. It's undulating ground. It's. dark. Um and it's, you know, it's it's a. high-risk position. I'm now committing. my teammates and myself um towards these. enemy combatants that we have already.

established are hostile. and. there should be four and we're only. tracking two at this point. So, this is. an extremely dangerous position for me. and my guys to be in. Um and due to the. professionalism, the courage and uh you. know extraordinary level of you know. boldness from those guys next to me to. my right and left. We managed to close. down these these enemy combatants and. neutralize the threat times two.

I'm still concerned about where the. other people are. So we then withdraw. back to the vehicles and everything's. okay. We then go and conduct um SSSE on. the on the two bodies. um confirm what we need to know. The. partner force are absolutely ecstatic at. this point. Their number one target's. been taken off the deck. Um so all in. all. there is a level of satisfaction that we. executed a good operation. We were.

planned to do it and we you know the. fact that he bought a ticket and voted. was his his option. He did that. We gave. them multiple multiple chances to be. detained and they wanted to fight us. They wanted to kill us. Um, and it just turns out that we were. better than they were. It's that simple. Um, so I didn't really think too much of. it. It's, you know, it's what we were. there to do. We were ordered to go and. do that and we demonstrated our.

professionalism to the highest level in. my opinion. Um, and at the time I thought that would. have been okay. Our commanding officer at the time. signed it off and was happy with what. had happened and had no issue with it. Um, and then it got pushed up to the. director of special forces. You got put. in for a citation for this, correct? Yeah, I was given a citation for that. whole deployment. Yeah. But it never.

came through. It disappeared somewhere. in the mail, you know. Um but yeah, I. was told by multiple PE people, including my S major, you know, well. done basically, we've written you up. Um. I'm not here for medals. It's nice to. get recognition. It would have been nice. for my daughter for sure. It would have. been a nice way to end my military. career. Well, I'm bringing that up. because of what you're about to say. Yeah. Before I go into what we're about to. say, it's really important for context.

that people understand why this has. happened. About 3 days before that, there was a BBC Panorama documentary. making allegations against the regiment. for, you know, alleged. misconduct in Afghanistan 10 years. previous to this. Now the guy that was. front and center in the crosshairs for. this investigation is a guy called Gwyn. Jenkins and he is now the first sea lord. at the time. He was the director of. special forces. So in charge of all.

special forces. He is under the. crosshairs for his mismanagement and. unprofessionalism in dealing with these. alleged in incidences you know 10 years. previous. So it goes through my regiment. It goes. all the way up to his level and he. decides. to launch an investigation into this in. his words to show transparency. even though there's probably nothing. wrong and if there was anything wrong.

they wouldn't have launched an. investigation on it. Does that make. sense? So he's done this and he admitted. to doing this on a VTC and I stand by. this cuz there's a whole room of people. that saw it. He basically said, "It's. more important that we be seen to be. doing the right thing than it is for. this incident to go away.". What does that mean? It means he threw. us under the bus knowing full well what. would happen because he wanted to be. seen to show transparency without any.

care in the world for how that would. affect us and our lives. Um, no. Well. done. Congratulations on being. professional and doing a good job. the. thing that we ordered you and trained. you to do. He sent us down the river and. he did that of his own admission to. make it seem to the world that they are. doing due diligence and that. does not sit well because that is not. what being a good leader is about. You.

do not throw your own guys under the bus. for your own personal. gain. And that's exactly what happened. And that was acknowledged by my. commanding officer. It was even. acknowledged by the um policemen that. came and arrested me in theater. They. knew and said they arrested you in. theater. They arrested Wait. Yeah. Oh, the plot thickens on that one. Yeah. But. um it's widely known and acknowledged. that the reason for this was so that he. could be seen to show that he does do. investigations because he'd failed in.

the past to do it properly. Does that. make sense? So. at the time it So he's holding somebody. accountable to save his own ass 100%. Well, not holding somebody accountable. because there's nothing to be held. accountable for. No, cuz it's all been. cleared because funny odd thing, 3 years. later down the line, they've realized. that there is absolutely no wrongdoing. in what we did and it was all completely. within our rules of engagement. It was.

not an excessive use of force and it was. professional. like there is there's no. other way of saying it. And what what. specifically instigated this specific. incident? From which perspective, mate? Why did he. pick this of all the combat through all. SAS? Why is he honing in on this. specific incident? Because it was one. that happened underneath his watch and. it was one that happened 3 days after a. BBC interview naming him that he'd been. involved in this. That's why. And.

everybody knows that. And it's. it's disgusting in my opinion to do. that. And it shows a complete lack of. moral courage, a lack of a spine, and. it's cowardice. It's. sending people down the river to save. your own skin for your own political and. your own personal gain. And I'm not. having it. Has he ever been in a. position like this on the ground? Probably not.

I asked his legad, his lawyer that he. had his um. they they went down the line of it's. excessive force, which exactly what it. says on the tin is how can you quantify. excessive force? He said there was a. high round count. I would then argue. that by doctrine and standards that we. set ourselves accountable for in UKSF in. order to be able to deploy on operations. overseas or domestically, we reach a. level of standards when it comes to. firearms and manipulation of weapon.

systems. And one of the drills, one of. many drills is essentially a six round. from the high ready in 2.5 seconds. We. fired about that between three guys. Okay. Um, so he doesn't even understand. his own doctrine because it isn't. excessive force. Now I'd like anybody. can you explain to me how much force is. excessive? Is one round too many? Is two. or are we engaging targets until the. threat is neutralized? Where does where where's where is it? Or. is it subjective? So they took this.

subjective opinion on what we did and. they basically launched a full. investigation into it. They opened up. the door to the RMP who are themselves. under scrutiny for their unprofessional. conduct not only in this operation which. we regiments launched a formal complaint. against them for the handling of how. they've done it in their um overzealous. activities which I'll go into in detail. in a minute but they're also under the. crosshairs for their um.

their unprofessionalism in Afghanistan. and not doing their jobs properly. So. you've got two forces operating against. us now. You've got RMPs that have got, you know, a chip on their shoulder and. are fully going in on this in, you know, what are RMPs? Royal Military Police. Royal Military Police. Um, and then. you've got a general who is using us as. a test case to to to better his own. political and, you know, personal career. essentially. Now, all of these things.

I've said are factual, and he's even. admitted that that's exactly what it. was, but he didn't understand the. ramifications of it, um, or where it. would go. And what's ironic to me is. that when he left that position, which. is the head position in UK special. forces, his next guy in um came and. spoke to us in theater and said, "This. would have quote a witness room full of. people. This would have never happened.

under my watch. That's never excessive. force and you did the right thing.". That's what he said. He's changed his. changed his tone on that a little bit. now and he's gone back on it, but he. forgets that we were all there when he. said it. So, the outgoing guys, who is. this? Who was it? Uh, what was his name? It'll come to me. Uh, Nick, I think his. name is Nick. He'll come to me, but he's. the he's the current director Special. Forces. So, the guy that replaced Gwin. Jenkins. Does that make sense? Mhm. Um, everybody understands why this has.

happened, but nobody's doing anything. about it. So, this is where it starts to. unravel and this is where the real. consequences of of people's actions of. throwing good guys under the bus, not. not only does it undermine the. confidence in the chain of command, not. only does it undermine the individual. operator's confidence to the point where. team leaders coming in to replace us. were telling us, we're not putting our. guys on the ground because if they do. what they're supposed to do, they're. going to get this treatment. We had guys.

in the squadron that didn't want a. soldier. We had guys that have left the. military out of the four guys in my. team. Two of us left. One of them tried to. leave but couldn't for visa issues, which I'll explain. And one of them is. still serving. Still serving his country. after what they've done. What a [ __ ]. hero. You know what a [ __ ] good dude. that is. But um. the it was just how the whole thing was. handled. Now, I'm not going to get into. the specifics of pointing the finger at. every single person that's been.

unprofessional this because the blame. solely lands at Gwin Jenkins at door. And he's been recently promoted to the. first sea lord, which is an extremely. high position within the military. He. was the intelligence military. intelligence adviser to the former prime. minister. Um when the new government got. in, he lost that job. Um, and then he. got given the first seaord job and. everyone's there going, "Oh, what a. great guy. What a great guy." No, he's.

not. And for anyone watching this, you. need to be careful because that man only. cares about himself. He doesn't care. about protecting the reputation of the. regiment. He cares about himself cuz he. knows that he's under the crosshairs for. this Afghanistan stuff. So, we were sent. down the river. We were. told ordered to write witness statements. with no legal representation in theater. I voiced my concerns about that and I. think I was right to do so because all.

the Royal Military Police did was they. took witness statements that we were. made to write and by made to write we. were given a document that said if you. do not do this you will be charged etc. etc etc. So, we weren't given an option. basically. And I said, "Okay, we'll do. the witness statements, but I think we. should have legal representation." No, you don't need it. Don't worry about it. The first thing that the Royal Military. Police used against us was our own. witness statements that we told them we. should have legal representation for. this. So, without any context or no.

evidence, they were using our own words against us. even though we said, "Hang on a minute. Can we have some protection here?". So they were caught out with that which. obviously impacted us. They trapped you. They trapped us. Yeah. And you know I. I'll read you some of the the the the. the impact statements from the. individuals shortly. I'll give you a. broad brush and then I'll get into some. details. This happened 3 years ago, Sean, and. it's only last week that they've.

concluded that there was no wrongdoing. and we've been acquitted of all charges. No, no sorry, no, you know, no compensation, emotional compensation, no nothing. And it's ruined people's lives. And it's. it's something that needs to be. addressed because this this this can't. happen again. And it's not okay. And. it's not fine to just wash it under the. carpet and carry on. That's not in my.

nature. This isn't about anything other than. having our perspective put across. And. I've spoken to all the guys involved and. they fully support what I'm doing. because they know hopefully this might. prevent it from happening in the future. I've already won the battle in terms of. I've been acquitted. I've been. vindicated that I did the right action. after 3 years, 3 years. to a point where I was even questioning. my own self. You know, that's a dark.

place to be and it's a very. stressful situation to be under. investigation for double murder, something that you know isn't true and. something that doesn't read well. Can. you imagine having that conversation. with a 15-year-old? Can you imagine. having that conversation with your. mother? Can you imagine having that. conversation with your loved ones, your. friends, your girlfriend? It's it's a. heavy thing to carry. And we have done. it. We've carried it for 3 years. Um, and now it's finally gone away. And.

and all the media picked this up. And. all again, all of the media picked this. up. We didn't get a voice. We didn't get. our opinion. We've not said a word. We've been professional. We've been. dignified. and we've carried on essentially just. trying to maintain some sort of level of. sanity and try and rebuild our lives. Um, but the level of accuracy of the. media reports has to have been from a. leak. It has to have been. There's no. way on earth they could. They've got the.

picture completely wrong and there's no. context in it, but the broad brush, the. main details are roughly fairly accurate. to a point. So, it has to have come from. inside the the organization itself. And. it's incredibly difficult. when. people keep putting stuff in the. newspapers on the news and family. members are reading it and it just it's. always murder. Mur you can't look past. the word murder. I've never murdered. anyone in my life. I'm a professional. soldier that does exactly what I'm.

supposed to do with inside the confines. of my rules of engagement to neutralize. the threat if needs be. Like what? Like. I've been trained to the highest level. I've operated next to some of the most. professional operators on the planet. Like professionalism is something that. we take extremely seriously. Um and it's. insulting to me that people would think. that we were unprofessional and. it's shameful that they can ban us with. accusations in order to save their own.

personal careers. That's disgusting. That should never happen ever again. Um, but it just kept going and going and. going and. they tried to arrest us all at the same. time, but they failed miserably because. of the RMP, the military police's. incompetence. Okay, my personal I'll. tell you my personal situation first. They flew. out to the. came to our operation station, our.

command post. They arrested me. They searched my room. They confiscated my um tablets and my. phones. So, I couldn't contact my family. and they wanted I don't know what they. were looking for. I don't know what they. were looking for on there. Their. argument was, "Well, we have to arrest. you so we can seize your um personal. electronic devices." I was like, "They're in a bag. There you go. You can. take them." So, yeah, but we need to. search your room. The keys are there. Do. it. They still did it. So, technically, I've been arrested for murder at this.

point. Now, when people look at. investigations in the past, oh, we've. done this before. Yes and yes and no. Nobody's been arrested for it. Okay. One. of the guys was arrested in front of his. mother, in front of his sister, and the. R&P's told him, "We're arresting your. son for murdering two civilians." I've. got it all written down. I've got it all. here, everything documented. One of the. guys was arrested at his home in front. of his wife where the policeman told his. wife squarely in the yards, "We're.

arresting your husband for murdering two. civilians." You can't unsee that. Family. members will never ever be able to unsee. that. One guy was tricked by the R&Ps of. coming for an interview under caution. They got him in a room. They basically. locked the room and said, "Bang, you're. under arrest." so they could search him. whilst he's whilst we're deployed, whilst we're out there serving our. country, still operational, still trying to do the right thing and. we have to deal with this not only at.

home but also overseas. Okay, so it's a. lot for people to deal with. We were. offered next to no support when it comes. to legal aid. It was 60 65 days. I think. I've got the detail. So, I'm going to. read all this stuff out in a minute, but. it was over 2 months of limbo where we. had no legal support because they. couldn't be read on to the specifics of. the operation, which we're not talking. about um for legal reasons and. disclosure reasons, but they couldn't. even we couldn't even get lawyers. They.

wouldn't even provide us with lawyers. And the ones they did provide us with. initially wouldn't do it because they. weren't getting paid enough money by the. mod. It's disgraceful. Um so, a lot of. the guys felt very isolated. Fast forward. till 14 months ago. I left I'd left the. military. I was trying to put everything. behind me, move on and try and give. something back. I took a job for GBRS as. their lead instructor. I went out to um. Virginia Beach and I was staying with DJ.

and Paty at the time. Lived in their. house for the best part of 3 months and. I was granted an 01 visa for. extraordinary ability. And that 01 visa. was a pull, not a push. And what I mean. by that, I was written commendations. from SWAT team guys. I'd also spent some. time at the unit. I'd trained guys from. um green team as a as a guest. instructor. I deployed with the US flag on my chest.

The United States asked me effectively. to come out and help train law. enforcement offer uh officers, SWAT. teams, military units, etc., etc. That. was what I was going to go and do. That. was my that was my future. I come back. to the UK to collect my visa and one of. the things that you need to provide is a. sheet which states whether you've got a. criminal record or not. I don't have a. criminal record because I've been in the. military for the best part of 20 years. serving my country. But on this piece of. paper, it says wanted for investigation.

under investigation for murder. Now, I'm. at the US embassy with this sheet and I. have to show this to that lady at which. point they'll negative. We are not. giving you a visa because it says you're. under investigation for murder, which. has been vindicated. That is obviously. not correct. So, it's impacted my life. I came back from Virginia Beach for 3. days. I was supposed to be there for 3. days with a small bag to. collect my visa from the US embassy in. London and then go on with the rest of.

my life. And it's been a heavy few years. and for the first time I felt positive. and I felt like I could get on with my. life and I could change direction and it. was all good until that moment. One of. the other guys tried to do exactly the. same. He was that broken by this whole. process that he decided to leave. He was. an Airstream operator. he was selected. to be a troop sergeant major and he. turned it down. He was like, "No, I. don't want anything to do with this. because of the way that we've been. treated um by this individual and by the.

RMP. This is all about how he treated us. and how the RMP treated my teammates.". Okay? It's very difficult for guys to move on. with their life when you've got this. thing hanging over them in the back of. your mind. It only feels like I left the. army last week. I've been a civilian for. coming up to two years, but I only feel. like I left the army last week. And it's. had a [ __ ] significant effect on my.

on my life, how I feel. Um, my teammates. lives, my teammates's family's lives. It's caused the breakdown of two. relationships. Um, guys that have given. everything and love that regiment to. death, and I still do, have had to walk. away from it. because of what Gwen. Jenkins did to us and our team. And you. know, I just want to be able to sit. there.

and put my side across, our side across. because nobody's asked us for our. narrative and yet it keeps coming out in. the press and now everyone's jumping on. the bandwagon saying this and saying. that. I want to clear a few things up. and I want to get the truth out there so. that people should be held accountable. And this my primary goal for this is. nothing more than this should never ever. happen again to anyone because it's. absolutely disgusting. It's a disgrace. and it's something that we need to. address because we can't just turn a. blind eye to this which is exactly what.

he wants. Okay. So if he does watch this. and feels uncomfortable about it, good. That's a good thing because you should. do you know he really should feel. uncomfortable and I want him to know the. impact because he's too arrogant to. reach out after multiple times and you. know this really is a last resort. because I've written and I'll tell you. in detail multiple letters from my. solicitor my my le my lawyer to the. Royal Military Police to the Syri. investigation board to director special.

forces to basically anyone and everyone. we've written letters saying hurry the. process up or at least allow people that. are under investigation for military, you know, incidents in the military. How. can I be blocked from traveling? Make that make sense. Like, I'm innocent. until proven guilty anywhere in the. world, but yet we're being treated as. guilty until proven innocent, which is. not only morally wrong, but how can we. treat service personnel like that? Where.

where's where's the level of respect or. compassion for us and our families? There is none. Um, so it needs to. change. So that's the reason we're doing. this. And I want to highlight the actual. emotional effect it's had on people. And. we've never been able to have our say. And yet we have to sit there and watch. the whole world read about this and read. about that in all the press. and we're supposed to just sit there and. do nothing. They destroyed your name. They destroyed it. Yeah. They destroyed.

us. They tried to destroy us, but um. we're still in the fight for sure. Um. I wrote a letter to my MP, which is a. member of parliament, so a politician. essentially, who wrote a letter to the. veterans minister, who basically, and I'll read you his. response, said, "Yeah, there's a charity. out there somewhere. That's what we're. supposed to be doing. If he needs help, re ring this hotline." Basically, no. empathy there. Bearing in mind this guy. was used to be in the special forces. Um.

what's significant about him is everyone. knows how unfair and how poorly we've. been treated. Do you remember I told you. the guy who was blown up in Afghanistan. John who lost two legs on an arm. He's a. close friend of that veterans minister. and he wrote him a personal message and. basically he got the same short shift. reply of yeah process is process just. wait out. So I've tried everything. I. literally could not have tried more. I. wrote in letters to lawyers. I've wrote.

letters to politicians. Years of trying to get some resolution. on this. Years of trying to get some. sort of clarity on it, of trying to be. able to move on with our lives. It's. significant to the point it's affected. me. For 9 months, Sean, I couldn't earn. a penny. So, when I left the military, I. didn't leave with much. I'm not a rich. man, but I spent all my pension, all of my savings, maxed out credit. cards. I was living in Airbnbs. There. were times where I didn't even have. enough money to to get that and I was. sleeping in my truck. Like, I'm not.

joking, Sean. It's been a [ __ ]. nightmare for the last 14 months. Three. days I was supposed to come back for. nowhere to live, no source of income. I. couldn't earn money from GBRS cuz I. didn't have a visa and we wanted to. protect the integrity of what we were. doing because we're professional. So, I'm using everything I can at this. point. I'm getting no support. The only. support that I got was from the. regimental association and they they. threw me some money in order for me to. basically put a roof over my head in an. Airbnb uh and do some laundry. That was.

basically what it was. So, I'm thankful. for those guys for doing that, but. they're not part of they're not part of. mod. They're they're they're a. regimental association, an old boys. network, but it's that's not good enough. That's. that's not enough. the loss of income, not being able to to earn money, let. alone having to spend all of my own just. to, you know, just to keep a roof over. my head essentially. Um, tens, hundreds of thousands probably at. this point is as loss of income and um.

expenditure from my own personal. personal accounts just just trying to, you know, survive dayto-day. I'm not. after a [ __ ] penny and I want to get. that out. I don't care about money. I. don't care. I just want this to never. happen again. And I want people that are. involved in this to be able to look. themselves in the mirror and go, "Yeah, we need to do better in the future.". That's what this is about. This is not. me spitting my dummy out or, you know, having a Prince Harry pity party. situation. It's not that. I don't want.

You're not here to victimize yourself. I'm not here to do that. I'm here. Looking out for the future of. SAS operators. Yeah, 100%. This can't. happen again. And it's all good and well. saying it won't, but it won't. it will. sorry if we don't change it or if it. doesn't get voiced. And it's it's my. time now. It's my time to have my say. because for three years I've had to sit. by and watch people destroy the. integrity of of what we were doing. attack my team and drag my regiment's. name through the mud for no reason other.

than personal gain, political gain. Um. and that's not right. The regiment is a. fantastic organization. It's an. incredible asset to the nation and it. provides an incredible layer of security. um across the world for not only our. civilians and citizens but you know our. coalition as well. The regiment is a. fantastic thing and dragging it down. like this is disgraceful. It's. disgusting and I'm not having that. So. these people need to be held. accountable. I want to touch on a couple.

of the points from the guys because. without that it you know it it the. context is important on this. So, we've got everything from the very. start to the very end. So, first thing I'll read out is from. the colonel prosecuting officer. Again, I'm going to leave him out of it. namewise because I've got class and I've. got dignity. But I'm going to read this to you. The. first word you,

soldier C, are notified that charges. will not be brought against you under. section 1212. of the Armed Forces Act 2006 in respect. to the case referred to this authority. arising out of the allegations of murder. during a deliberate detention operation. 3rd 4th July 2022. The position may change, however, if, for example, further evidence comes to. light or a further allegation is made or. there is an appropriate request for the. decision to be reviewed in accordance. with the service prosecuting authorities. victim's right to review policy. That's.

what we got after 3 years, Sean. That's. what we got. So, no name, you soldier C. Not very personal. And then at the end. of it, it's a warning. It's not a sorry. It's not congratulations, you didn't do anything wrong. It's a you. soldier C. How degrading is that? You. can't even It's disgusting. And then at. the bottom of it, well, this might. change. No acknowledgement of any. wrongdoing there whatsoever. No empathy, nothing. So that's that's what we got.

after 3 years. You can check that out. and you can have a look at that. That's some [ __ ] right there. So they're still digging in. essentially. For example, further. evidence comes to light or a further. allegation is made or there is an.

appropriate request for the decision to. be reviewed in accordance with service. prosecuting authorities victim's rights. to review policy. What that means is. it's not over. It's just they haven't. got what they need right now. It doesn't. tell me. There's not I don't get a warm. fuzzy feeling that I'm going to get left. alone here. Why would they even send. this? So why would they even Exactly. It. makes no sense. Right. Does that make. sense to you? It makes no sense. Good. It's not just me, then.

So you're not clear. You're cleared for. the time being. I'm clear for the time. being. And I was speaking to the lawyer. again recently last couple of days about. trying to get my form. redacted so it doesn't say under. investigation for murder so I can go and. get my visa so I can go and get on with. my life and there's this whole [ __ ]. process and they're like no it's going. to take some time you've got to do this. and that. It's like I'm either innocent. or I'm not. You just told me I am so. give me my form and let me get on with. my life. That's it.

How long does this go on for? for the. rest of my life. I've given enough my. country, Sean. I just want to get on. with it, mate. I just want to have a. nice life. You know what I mean? I feel. like I've earned that. I feel like all. my teammates have. This one here, this is from the Ministry. of Defense, from the Veterans Minister. I was sorry to learn of Mr. financial. hardship and homelessness. I would. encourage him to seek assistance from. the Veterans Gateway which offers.

support. to veterans 24 hours a day, 7 days a. week on a range of issues including. housing and finances. The Veterans. Gateway can be contacted on a free phone. number and there's a website that you. can go and look at. That's from the. Veterans Minister, a guy that used to be. in the SPS, a guy that used to be one of. the squadron. That's what you get. That was in direct response to a letter. that I had written, drafted.

by somebody that is very close to um the. prime minister. who actually wrote his autobiography um. via my local politician, a guy who was supposed to help me. We. wrote that letter to that local. politician who then forward it to this. this guy, the veterans minister. And. that is the that's the response I got, a free phone number.

And you know what really winds me up. about stuff like that is is just the. sheer cowardness of it. Because it's. like we've reached out to that dude. twice. Once from a guy whose life. I was there to try and help save. So, a. personal touch and one through a. completely professional touch and get. nothing. Nothing from these people. Not. okay, let me look into it. Let me do. this. Just it's just due course way out. And that's not good enough. And yet I. look around and you're doing expeditions.

to Mount Everest and this saying that. you're for the No, you're not. You're. for yourself. And if any of these people. have got anything to say, I'm more than. welcome to sit down and have this. conversation with them. But I've tried. to reach out to them on multiple. occasions through multiple sources. through every official channel possible. and get nothing. So if they feel like. this is unfair, then they need a reality check. Okay, let me start working through some of. these personal issues that the geysers. have faced. Okay, so personal issues, RMP searching of my personal home that I.

just moved into after telling me they. would not search my property, arriving. unannounced with multiple cars and cops. late in the evening. telling my girlfriend directly I'd. murdered two people, turning a house upside down during their. search, taking personal items from me. and my partner, family photos on USB. devices that I've still not received. back. This one breaks me. Searching my. one-year-old son's nursery bedroom while. he was sleeping in his c.

I want them to think about that. Imagine. being at home with your new wife and a. brand new baby and all of a sudden. military police come knocking at the. door. They tell your wife to her face. that you're being arrested for murder. and then they turn your house upside. down, including the baby's bedroom with. the baby asleep. That's what the RMP did. to us. How does that make you feel? It pisses. me off. It pisses me the [ __ ] off, mate. That's what it does. It's wrong. Partner having counseling because of it. and put her in a terrible mental state.

for years. Almost a breakdown in our. relationship. That's one guy. I was arrested on the 28th of July 2022. in front of my mother and sister while. home at RNR. During the arrest, the RMP told my. family that I was arrested arrested for. murdering two civilians, which has. caused irreparable damage to my. relationship with my sister. These. people are destroying lives. Two weeks after being arrested, I was. back in theater when all our weapons.

were seized. So, get this. This is the. professionalism of the guys that I'm. talking about. They came, they seized. all of our guns whilst we were in. theater on combat operations. They take. all of our guns, all of our rifles, pistols, optics. Do you know what we. did? We went down to stores, got new. guns, rezeroed, and cracked on because. we're professional. That's what we're. about. I was unable to speak to my lawyer about. the case as disclosure sale. It took 69. days to read him on. So for 69 days we.

had no legal support because the people. that are supposed to be dealing with. this to read these people on didn't do. it. We were offered $25,000. for a holiday. That's what we were. given. That's what they offered. Obviously we turned that down. I feel that there's an irreparable. mental distress caused to me and my. family by the fear and anxiety which. generated by the investigation. and my. confidence, self-esteem, and personal.

relationships feel permanently damaged. I had a breakdown in January 2025 and. was close to taking my own life. I've. been undergoing professional mental. health treatment since early 2024. This guy flew out to Colombia to go and. do psychedelic treatments because he was. on the verge of killing himself. Jeez. And he didn't get any support from the. military. There was no. program for it. So he's gone off his own. back and done that because he was at his.

last last phase. He had nowhere else to. go and I could see it in him. Next guy being instructed ordered to. fill in witness statements with no legal. advice for the serious investigation. report which were then used against us. You were the only one who questioned it. You being me. Uh. sir signed off by headquarters but then.

referred to the R&P by DSF Gwyn Jenkins. So what that means is the regiment. were good with what we the perfect the. commanding officer of the regiment. signed that off and said that is the. correct use of force. Everything's good. I've got no problem with it. They then. refer it up and guess who gets it? Gwyn. Jenkins. and he's the one personally who. referred it to the Royal Military. Police. He did that.

He was only protecting himself because. he wanted the CDS job, but he didn't get. it. We were tricked under the premise of. an interview under caution. The R&P. tried and failed miserably to arrest us. all at the same time. So, they tried to. do us all across the the world at the. same time. Failed miserably. I arrived. at the right time in the right place to. conduct the interview. Then they. arrested me, read me my rights, fingerprints, swabs, DNA, then. physically marched me to my. accommodation so they could confiscate. and seize my phones. It's exactly what. they did to me. This also coincided with.

the botch search of the um the guy's. houses and the home addresses in the UK. handing over weapons. Everyone's I love. the mindset of the gizers here, including pistols and MVGs. We went and got new ones, zeroed them in. and was good to go to deploy again. Looking back, our professionalism and. ability to crack on probably wasn't the. best idea. Sean, what you must. understand about this is they flew us. back from theater. They got us all in a. room and conducted a no comment. interview under caution in a police.

station with two SIB investigators. that went on for hours and then they. flew us back to to theater. Two weeks. later, I jumped out the back back of an. aircraft and led my team to target. Oh, so all this is going on and we're. still having to do this. How the [ __ ] are you supposed to think? Put it in the box, don't you? You put it. in the box and you crack on. That's what. we do. BTC stating that RHQ would get us.

the best lawyers. Money, no object. I. rang one, explained the situation, reading a pre-prepared script with a. number for on a number on it for the. lawyer to call. Then we were told they. were too expensive. I had to choose b b. b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b. b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b. basic legal aid lawyers. So what that. means is they promised us the world, Sean. They said, "We're going to give. you the best representation money can. buy, no object. There's a big. fund for this type of stuff with. millions of pounds in it." And yet they. wouldn't pay for legal aid. We had to. get basic lawyers. Now, the one that.

I've got is incredible, and I'm very. grateful for him. But they gave us a. whole list of these high-flying lawyers, and not one of them would touch it. because they weren't willing to pay the. price for it. £62 an hour was the cap. £62 an hour is what we were worth for. these guys. Now, this might sound like. I'm getting digging in on people, but if. you don't talk about this, then it goes. away and it doesn't get rectified. So, there's there's doesn't sound like. you're digging in on people. It just. sounds like you're telling the truth and. you have to come out. These are from the. guys.

Having to tell my wife, our families. about the investigation, there was no. help, advice or support on how to. deliver such news. Then they the wives, families, etc. had loads of questions. that couldn't be answered because we. didn't have any information, i.e. how. long will this take? General Nick on his. handover takeover coming out to theater. and standing next to me stated that's. hostile intent all day. There's nothing. to worry about. That's the incoming. director special forces that I mentioned. a second ago only to change the tune. years later saying that he would have. done the same thing as Gwyn Jenkins.

These people are spineless. He completely reversed his statement. Completely reversed his statement. 180°. after standing there in a rooftop with. all of us, my entire team drinking a. beer, telling us how fantastic a job. we'd done and it would have never. happened under his watch. His exact. words and that you've got nothing to. worry about. I don't I don't understand this at all. So, they arrest you and your teammates. for murder. Yep. Fly you back to the UK. Investigate. Yeah. For for an.

investigate. Interrogate. Yep. Interrogate you. 4 hours. We sat in that. office. 4 hours under caution. And then. they deem you fit for duty again while. you're under investigation to go. continue doing the job. Yeah. I. conducted two free fall exercise. operations, combat operations in a week. Shortly after that, I led my stick to. target twice. Why? Why would they. I know you don't know the answer to. this, but I I'm just going to ask the. question anyways.

If you guys are loose cannons out there. murdering innocent civilians, why would they fly you back into country. to do it again? Because they knew it was. all [ __ ] and they knew we didn't do. anything wrong. If they thought we'd done something. wrong, if they really would have thought. we'd done something wrong, they wouldn't. let us do that, right? And there's drone. footage. It's all out. This exact 100%. operation. Yep. It's all there. 50. witness statements. What makes it even. more of a bit of a pill to swallow is. the two police officers that came and. arrest me in theater when they came out.

the first time. said to me, "We've seen the drone. footage. We don't even know why this is. a thing, but we've got to do our jobs.". And it was almost like they wanted me to. like have sympathy for them. You know, it's like, "Sorry, mate. I'm just doing. my job." Well, sorry, mate doesn't quite. cut it in this situation. This isn't a. sorry, mate situation. You know, when. you've got the the two people that are. arresting you telling you that they know. this is [ __ ] and that it's political. and they admitted that to my face, it. take it's it's a it's it's a hard thing.

to get your head around. Sean, it really. is, mate. RHQ decided to give a Charlie Charlie. one, which means an all hands basically. They briefed everybody about an ongoing. investigation, an invite that wasn't. extended to ourselves. I heard the news. from my wife. So basically for damage. limitation and reputation control. because they knew that the guys in the. squadrons were [ __ ] outraged and were. questioning whether they could be you. know deployed and trust the chain of.

command. Not the regiment so much but. above that. they invited everyone in and explained. the situation but they didn't invite us. Make that make sense. What would be your. take on that? I know what I think. I think they know. they [ __ ] up and they were trying to. fight fires and they didn't want us in. there because if we were we would have. told everybody what actually happened. How can you have an all hands without. the people that were involved and why is. he finding out why his wife who another.

wife said, "Oh yeah, my boyfriend was at. this brief. Did you go to it?" What. brief? No. See, he said he was being almost accused. of potentially leaking the story to the. press. All the scrutiny was asked for. I. was accused of leaking this story to the. press. Two days after my visa got. returned, I got a phone call from one of. the guys saying that the agitant had. phoned him up personally because the. story had leaked into the papers and he.

said, "Jay's I think Jay's gone and done. this." Or, "Do you think Jay How [ __ ]. dare you? How dare you have the audacity. to accuse me of leaking this to the. press?". And I know you might be sitting here. going, "Well, you're on the shore line. talking about Yeah, because it's done. and I want my say." But can you imagine. how offensive that is to me? Do you. think I'd leak that to the press? No. And if I was going to do it, I'd do it. with accurate details. I'm not leaking. the [ __ ] to the press. Somebody's. leaking it to the press. And I'm setting. the record straight because I'm sick and.

tired of reading about [ __ ] stories. in the newspapers that my family see. It's not correct. It's not right. And. quite frankly, it needs to be addressed. So that's what I'm doing. my wife and other people's families. rightly having enough of this [ __ ]. after seeing me ask going through a hard. time. speaking to the welfare. speaking to the welfare and being. basically dismissed. There's nothing. that can be done and then this this.

upsets me receiving a phone call from. the next day telling him to quote get a. grip of my wife. So basically, she's. phoned up. She wants to know answers. She's there's a protocol for this. There's people that if you ever have any. dramas, whether you're deployed or. whether it's this or whether you know. the kids need picking up from school or. the car breaks down or your husband's. been accused of murder, then phone this. number and we'll try and help you. She. phoned that number. Got nothing. And. then to take take the piss, that dude. phones the guy up the next day and goes,

"Hey, tell your wife to get a grip. Get a grip. depression, fear, anger, and a complete loss of self. All. the negative effects has had. individually and a family friendship. level. I'm ashamed to say that I didn't. want to leave the house and have panic. attacks. You're talking about one of the. finest operators I've ever met. Panic attacks. Seeing the mental health nurse at work. and being told if I want to go on. medication, I would be downgraded.

Not allowed to access access weapons and. my chain of command would be informed. So, he's reached out and they've. basically said, "Cool. We could help. you, but it means that we're going to. have to report it and that you are no. longer allowed to do your job. How can. you be in the SC but not be allowed to. play with guns?". The [ __ ] are we talking about here? I. didn't do that for pride reasons and. worried about my reputation. So, we. sucked it up. Basically, he tried to get. help. They bounced him and he sucked it. up and carried on having to leave home. and start divorce proceedings because I.

was unsafe. It's destroying families. It's. destroying people's lives, mate. It's. destroying families. Big drinking. issues. Multiple jobs falling through because of. the ARCO form. Same situation I'm in. We're looking for employment outside of. the wire. Basically, it makes it nearly. impossible to get a visa to go anywhere. So, what are guys supposed to do? How. long does this go on for? How long are. we going to be punished for. indefinitely? Bearing in mind, we've. done nothing wrong. And everybody knows.

that this is a test case by Gwyn Jenkins. to show transparency. If you want. transparency, here it is. This is. transparency. You reap what you sew. You. know, again, I know there's more. And there. is. There's pages of this. These are. just the ones I've highlighted. There's. pages of it. This is the arco form. This. is the form that caused the dramas. Read. that.

See what that says. This personal data is provided to you by. ACRO, Criminal Records Office, for the. purpose of an immigration, consularor, visa, or citizenship related to. applications. made to a foreign government. Keep the. data secure, protected against loss or.

unauthorized access. Having the word. under investigation for murder on that. form is not a good look. I felt sorry for the girl at the. embassy. She was loving it. She was. like, "Yeah, awesome. You're exactly the. kind of person we want to give an O1. visa to. Thank you for your service is. what she actually said to me until she. saw that." And she was she didn't know. how to to circumn it. She had to get a. superior in. Then another one came. This. whole thing, it's embarrassing to me. Sean, I'm stood in the freezing cold. rain for 4 hours queuing up to get into.

the US embassy, a nation which I'm. deeply proud of and will die to protect. I'm stood in that line and I get. humiliated. I'm made to feel that. [ __ ] big by my own government. I've already had a US visa, Sean. I had. a NATO visa. I lived there for a year. I've been to America over 50 times. I've been to war for that for that. country. What we what recourse do you. have now. in terms of what's next? I mean, when.

this first letter came out that you read. Yep. The position the position may. change. However, well, just to read it. again, you soldier C are notified the. charges will not be brought against you. under section 1212 of the armed forces. act 2006 and respect of the case. referred to this authority arising out. of the allegations of murder during. deliberate detention operation on 34. July 22.

The position may change. How? So I I. just we've already read this. The. position the position may change however. if for example further ev evidence comes. to light or further allegations are made. or there is an appropriate request for. the decision to be reviewed in. accordance with the service prosecuting. authorities victim's rights to review. policy. It means it's not over. It means it's. just on ice and that we have to go on.

with the rest of our lives with this. What happens one day? what in 10 years. time are they going to are they going to. call me back? Are they going to arrest. me again? Because they don't leave this stuff. alone. There are guys from, you know, part of what we're doing here is. shedding the light on this. There are. guys from Northern Ireland. There are. guys from the Falklands. There are guys. from all sorts of conflicts that have. been going on for decades that are still. fighting this. I said, you know, there's. a partition I sent it to to Jeremy. Over. 100,000 people have signed that petition. in the UK because of what they're doing. They're reversing it and making it the.

government are making it possible for. people to just keep revisiting these. things. It's it's disgusting. It's it's. it's got to stop. It's undermining. And this doesn't undermine it. What do. the attorneys say? They don't say much to be honest. Do. they care? It doesn't feel like it. Doesn't feel like it to me. My personal. one does. Gwin Jenkins certainly doesn't. care. who veterans minister does. Who could.

get involved to solve this? Whose. attention do you need to get? I don't. know. I don't know. I'm at a loss, Sean. Like, I'm just a dude from the squadron, bro. I I don't know. I'm lost in this. Like, I've had to stand by and watch for. 3 years how this has just destroyed. people's lives. Like, destroyed it. How. many different investigations are going. on throughout the military right now? Dozens. Countless amount. I don't know. I couldn't give you an accurate detail, but a lot. Have you seen any come to. completion? They very rarely do. They. just rumble on for years and years and.

years and years until somebody until. until the guys under, you know, investigation die. There are guys that. are dealing with stuff from Ireland from. like the 70s, 80s. It's 2025. The [ __ ]. are we doing here? So, they never close. a case sometimes. How's that make you feel? And it's all good and well saying it's. all good to go. All I want is my form. Let me go and get on with my life. That's all I want. I want that and I.

want this to never happen again. And. before people start throwing people. under the bus for their own political. gain, maybe have a little think about. it. You know, I know I'm not going to. change a world. They'll probably throw. the book at me. I don't care. I'll die. on this hill. I'll fight to the death on. this one. I've got nothing to lose. Like, I know I'm in the right. I'm armed. by the fact that I'm in the right. You've already admitted in that piece of. paper there that I've done nothing. wrong. There's no evidence. There's no. crime. This is [ __ ] Everyone knows. it. Make it go away. How big of a story.

is this in in UK right now? Depends what. day of the week it is. It's in all of. the major tabloids. All of them. Is it in media? Yep. All of. the newspapers. All of the digital. newspapers. It's in all of them. The Times, the. Guardian, the Daily Mail, like. legitimate newspapers. Everything. Yeah. And none of them are reaching out to. you. Nope. And every single one of them, the the the information that's in there.

just keeps get thicker and thicker and. thicker that somebody's talking to them. Somebody's explaining it to them. And. yet they have the audacity to try and. accuse us. I'm not having it. It's not fair. And you know what the worst thing about. it is? Like. the silence is deafening. Like. if you know about this and you don't do. anything about it, to me you're just. you're you're you're just as guilty. You're just as guilty as Gwin Jenkins. and those R&P that did that.

You know, we had an incident recently. where a. armed police officer. uh shot a guy, lethal force, a guy that. had been involved in a shooting the. night before. He was into drugs. He was. into he was a gangster. and. multiple attempts to detain him, very. similar story, eventually had to use. lethal force. He subsequently been. vindicated that that lethal force was. just and righteous and proportionate.

But they had him up in court on a murder. charge. And you know what the police. did? They put their guns down and said, "We're not going out. We're not going to. do it because this is how you treat our. people." Do you know who stepped up when. those armed police stepped down? Who? We. did. Our regiment. The irony isn't lost on me. The police are not having it. They're. like, "No, [ __ ] this. Why should we? We.

don't do that because we're the. military.". And you know what? There's guys that are. like, "If that happened to our squadron, we'd all do the same thing." No, you. [ __ ] wouldn't. He didn't. And I'm not. I'm not I'm not attacking that. I'm not. I'm not saying it. Everyone's got to get. on with their own thing. And. I don't want this to damage anybody, but. it can't [ __ ] happen again. And. people should know about this and feel. uncomfortable about it. That's what this. is about. And if they don't, maybe. they're too arrogant to care. Maybe they. are. I'm pretty sure Gwin Jenkins won't.

reach out. I'm pretty sure he'll come up. with some [ __ ] or he'll try and come. after me in some way or whatever. Cool. I'm good with it. I've done nothing. wrong. I defended my country. I defended. my teammates. And I was put in a. position, ordered to be in that. position, took fire from enemy combatants, re-engaged, neutralize the threat. It's. that simple. And it's on drone footage. It's all there. It's a difficult one, mate. It's so.

frustrating. Like so so frustrating. And. I feel like the last few days, I mean, again, I don't know how many times we're. going to say this today, but I don't. believe in coincidence. I think it's. very ironic that a couple of days before. this that happens people are know people. are aware of it that I was coming to. talk to you. Um people are aware of that. I think so a couple close people but. like anything once one person knows you. got to assume everybody knows right I. didn't like it. No no I trust you. Yeah. Yeah. But um.

it's just heartbreaking man. I just love. that. I love love still do that. organization, that cat badge with my. whole [ __ ] heart, dude. I'd die for. it. I'd still die for it. Loving it. nearly killed me. And and and I feel like it's. Who do we need to reach? How can I help. you? I wish other than doing this. interview, who do we need to reach? Who.

does this who does this conversation. need to get to? Do you need somebody wealthy over there. to back you? Do you need to reach a. certain politician? It's a strange one because I I've. exhausted every single aspect that I. can. I don't think we can throw money at. the problem and it will go away. I don't. know, Sean, how this. doesn't happen again to people. And I'm. fairly confident that within a period of.

time I will be able to get my form. because that's only right. But at the. same time I don't trust them to be able. to do the right thing. What is the form. that you need? It's the ARCO form. So. that create that criminal record form. So as soon as that form comes back with. I'm no longer under investigation and it. doesn't say murder on it, I can now go. to the embassy. I can give it to that. lady and she can give me a visa. I can. get on with my life. And they're still. dragging their heels. Have you brought. the Have you brought this this the. notice of non nondirection? Have you.

brought that to the embassy? Not yet. No. So what we've done is we sent that. to my legal team. So I've got an. immigration lawyer. The GBRS have paid. for tens of thousands of dollars at this. point, you know, trying to help me out. They paid for all of that. Couldn't be. more grateful. And they've held my hand. essentially through this whole process. So she's got all the information. I've. reached out through my lawyer um in the. last couple of the day, last couple of. days to reach out directly to the Royal. Military Police and to get this. situation unfucked so that they can get. that off my record and I can get on with. it. And then we got some [ __ ] army.

response saying, "Yeah, there's a step. down process." Basically, it's like it's. completely unhelpful. It's like there's. a step down process. What does that. mean? Who knows? Not even my lawyer. knows. She said, "I'm going to go back. and and work out what what that actually. means." Like, it shouldn't take more. than a second for them to be able to go. Is he under investigation for murder? No, he's been cleared. Cool. We'll take. that off the sheet then and give him a. new sheet and let him go to the embassy. It's not hard. But it's still like they. want to have some sort of This whole.

thing has felt like they were looking. for something. They were looking to try. and find it. And I guarantee you, Sean, if they could have and they had found. something or some angle to come at us. and put us stood there in in a in a. trial, they would have done it. But. there isn't anything there because. there's no there's no there's no. wrongdoing. That's the most frustrating. thing. It's like, and I'm glad that. they've written that and said that we've. done nothing wrong because otherwise you. can come on here and people are still.

going to have that in their minds. like. I've lost close relationships with. family members because they wanted to. distance themselves from me and this. this this allegation, you know, that's. that's a [ __ ] hard thing to deal. with, man. It's it's ongoing for all of. us. And when we all got the news, it was an incredible moment, but it was. a very bittersweet moment. It doesn't. feel like it's a hollow victory. It's. cuz it's not. No.

What's the appetite of the UK citizen on. this? What do you think they'll do when they. hear this? Will they be pissed? I think. so. Every single person I've spoke to in. the last 3 years is outraged by it from. all demographics, military, non-military, law enforcement, civilian, you name it. There's you can't look at. any of these facts. And everything I'm. saying is not subjective. It's not an. opinion. These are facts backed by the. data. And you can see it. It's all in.

black and white there. You know, those. letterheads have got army letterheads, Ministry of Defense letterheads. Like, you can see it. It's all black and. white. There's an outpouring of out, you know, of of disgust in the UK for this. We. shouldn't be treating our soldiers like. that. That is the general feeling across. across the nation. Hence the reason. 100,000 people have signed a petition to. to get these guys from Northern Ireland. left alone. Like, what is Jenkins doing. now? So, he's the first sea lord. So, he now has the highest position in.

the Royal Navy that you can get. Does he have political aspirations? 100%. You can sit up there and, you know, white hall in your ivory tower making. these decisions that affect guys like. me, guys like my teammates. And yeah, we. don't have the political horsepower. I.

don't have the government. or some fancy title, but I have got my truth. and I have got a voice and I've served. my country for a long time and I think. my voice should be heard. And when I. speak, I speak for all of us. and with the full backing and support of. my teammates. Have you thought about. getting a publicist? What is a publicist, Sean? A publicist. can get this into the media.

A publicist can. connect you to the right connections to. put public pressure on him. I haven't thought about it. No, but I'm. something I'm not adverse to. Listen, I'm better than him. I've got. more integrity and more. more class than him. I don't want to.

destroy his career. It's not worth it. for me. I don't care about him. He's. worthless. He's a coward. I don't even expect an apology. He. hasn't got the spine or the moral. courage to do that. These kind of people. never give apologies. No, he won't. I. just want him to know. Maybe his wife can read that. Maybe his. wife can watch this. And when they have that conversation and. they look each other in the eyes, maybe. they can see how it's affected us.

I'd have died for my teammates that. night and I'll die for them again. That's the difference. There's a lot of. people in UK that are not happy with the. way things are going. No. For a. multitude of reasons. In fact, we had a. group of extremely wealthy people that. want to talk to me about it and want me. to to bring it to light. And so maybe we. can connect you with them. Maybe they. have some type of pull. I wish I had more connections over there.

for you. But. I think this is a damn good start. I. hope so. I hope good comes out of this. Again, I don't want to come across like. I'm whining or bitching or, you know, that's not what this is about. You're not coming across like that. You're coming across like you just want. your life back. Yeah. You want your. teammates to have their life back. That's it. And you want. I want it to change future operators to.

not have to worry about this [ __ ] Yeah. So they could serve their country. without this type of stress. Exactly. That's the way it comes across. Good. Well, I hope it does. And that's. genuinely genuinely hand on heart. That. is all I want from this. And I don't. know maybe can we can we make a change? Can we not put that stuff on forms? Can. we not can we not do that in the future? Like, can we just not put it in the. press? And that Yeah, I don't want my I. hid this from my family for a long time. to the point where it was untenable. I. couldn't I had my mom phone me up on New.

Year's Eve. Everyone else celebrating, oh, this is going to be, you know, happy. new year and all this other [ __ ]. She phones me up and she's like, "This. is you, isn't it?" She She's not stupid. Smart woman. She puts it together. Like, that's a [ __ ] conversation you don't. want to have with your mother, you know? How's your daughter handling this? She doesn't know. Sean, she doesn't. know. Not the extent of it. No,

I can't hide it from her for any longer. That's one of the reasons this is. useful. I need to need to get it done. And I've had to hold hold. She hasn't seen the press. She got a. phone. What did happen? It's little things like one minute I'm. watching her play soccer, right? I'm. stood there watching her play soccer. All those parents all know what I did. for a living. And there's a [ __ ]. documentary coming out by the BBC. telling us that we've done this or done. that or there's some newspaper story.

There's a documentary coming out on the. panorama. Yeah. About the Afghan stuff. The Afghan stuff. So this whole thing, this whole thing is because of the. Afghan inquiry and he's under pressure. from it. So he threw us under the bus to. show transparency because of that. That's what this is about. And the BBC like. make this make sense. How can the BBC. commission investigative journalists to. go ambulance chasing around Afghanistan.

about stuff that happened. a decade ago allegedly with no real. valuable sources of information other. than you know people in farmers and. people saying you know they're all. getting paid they're all getting paid to. give those testimonies so on one one. hand the BBC are doing that and on the. other hand they're spending tens of. millions of pounds per episode to. commission Rogue Heroes, a documentary. about the SAS called Rogue Heroes. So,

you either like the SAS or you don't. like the SAS. How can you do both? Which. one is it? Hypocrisy of of the British. media when it comes to this stuff is. not even shocking anymore. It it really. isn't. It's a shame, but it doesn't. surprise me anymore whatsoever. And. again, for these journalists out there. that are writing these stories to get. clicks for a bit of clout or whatever it. might be, just think about it. I hope. they see this and and think about how. that affects all of the good people. What about all of the people? What about.

what about my friend Matt's family? A. guy that lost his life serving his. country who couldn't be prouder to have. been in that regiment. How the [ __ ] do you think it makes his. family feel reading that, you know? There's just no empathy whatsoever. People need to be really careful. And. that's why, you know, I want to come. here and say this so I can set the. record straight a little bit. You know, I can look you in the eye and tell you. that I didn't do anything wrong, Sean. I. stand by what I did and I do the same. thing again, again, and again, and.

again, I felt that at the time, and I. feel it now. I wouldn't have done it. How can you question my professionalism? Like, what would have you rather us do? Not. return fire and take a casualty in the. middle of a field. Just let them run. away. Is that is that what we do? What. what what do you what would you propose. that I you know what course of action. would have you suggested that I take? No, it's [ __ ] [ __ ]. I'm sure the the drone footage has never. been released. No. Do you have access to.

it? No. Does your attorney have access to it? Um. I can ask him potentially. I don't think. so. I think they're very careful and. very. Not sneaky is probably not the right. word, but they keep it all under lock. and key. A lot of this stuff needs. clearances. Dent clearances that to be. released, you know. I mean, I've seen. this before. I interviewed the. the Blackwater guys from Nour Square. I. don't know if you're familiar with that. incident, but they the US government.

actually deleted the 10-minute section. of drone footage that proved their. innocence. Yeah. and then they were pardoned. You know, I'm not I'm not too concerned. about, as that piece of paper says, it's it's. not completely done, but I am confident.

in the fact that at least not in the in. the in the meantime, there's going to be a knock at the door, but it's still there. It doesn't feel. like it's gone away. And I've been given. asurances that this the form will come. It might take a little bit of time and. there some process to go through, but. three years is a [ __ ] process. How. many how much process do you want? Don't. keep saying process to me. I've been. through the process. It's nearly [ __ ]. destroyed my teammates's lives. It's had. a negative impact on mine. Completely.

turned my future and you know upside. down. It's not right and it needs to be. addressed and that's what we're doing. And I think hopefully like people will. see this and go, we need to do better. We need to treat our service personnel. better because they deserve better. You. know, they deserve better. And. I don't know. There's not a person that. I've spoke to about this that doesn't. look at that and go, "Yeah, that's not. good enough." You talk to us about. exacting standards. You talk to us about.

judgment. You talk to us about. leadership and all these other buzzwords. that these people want to throw down our. necks and, you know, throw in our faces. Well, let's see. Some. people don't get involved in this. because they haven't got the moral. courage to stick their head above the. power pit and they're happy just staying. there and being ignorant to it. And. that's not that's to me that's. complicit. You you're you're part of the. problem if you don't do anything about. it. If I was to just go now, get my visa. and disappear off and not address it, I. feel like I'm letting myself down. I.

feel like I'm letting the dudes down. And I also feel like I'm letting the. [ __ ] next generation of dudes. Like, we need to address this and make sure. this [ __ ] doesn't ever happen again. because. it's wrong. And it the guys deserve. better. That's it. This is my goal for. this, you know? It's my end state is. that. I'm not after money. I'm not after a thank you. All I want is. for this to never happen again and for. people to look at this and go, we need.

to make fundamental changes to the way. we do business. And if that happens, it's a win. And. that's why it's worth flying [ __ ]. halfway across the world. and having this conversation with you. that will get seen by some people. It'll. get seen. Can guarantee you that. And I don't want to go to war with. anyone. I'm done. I'm tired of it, Sean. I'm exhausted with the whole thing.

Honestly, it. it's exhausting. I don't feel like there's a silver. lining at times. When it comes to this, I'm grateful that I'm quite resilient. I'm grateful to myself for being quite. robust. I mean, it doesn't appear like. that sometimes, but the [ __ ] tactical. patience and uh the amount of times when. I see, you know, pictures of his face.

being promoted, being awarded stuff, you. know, smiling as if nothing's happened, it makes me angry is not the right word. It makes me [ __ ] furious. You understand how angry. this situation. makes me feel? And I've been nothing but. patient, reserved, dignified, and I'm not out here screaming and.

shouting saying, "I want this, I want. that. I just want it to go away and I. want it to never happen again." And I. don't think that's unreasonable. And if. they'd have answered my requests and. they hadn't just fobbed me off with some. free phone number or ignored me or made. me feel like a piece of [ __ ] for 3 years. and they'd done their jobs with the same. level of professionalism that my. teammates had done, then I wouldn't be. saints.

And those R&P officers that did that, they should be ashamed of themselves. I'm sure they are good. There's no. sympathy from me on that. Zero. And. there's a whole bunch of names I could. bring out there, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to do that unless I have. to. And this isn't a passive aggressive. threat. These are facts. That's only the. tip of the iceberg. We've got it all. We've got every single failure, every. single unprofessional action from the.

[ __ ] minute those rounds left our. rifles to the [ __ ] second that I'm. sat here now. So, we've got more if we. need it. Yeah. If you put it all out on a piece of. paper, you'd look at it and go, "This. has to be some sort of joke. This can't. be real.". But it's not very [ __ ] funny if. you're sat where I am. I don't think you. find it's very funny. I do, Sean. No, I. don't. I can see in your eyes, you know. I know. I trust you, you know. But, you know, DJ Cole backed me from day.

one. They knew about all of this. situation. I told them straight away. And they still decided to give me a. contract. They still decided to pay for. my legal fees. They still backed me. They still gave me the opportunity to. have a career from the day one. Like. I'm so grateful for that and thank you. for them to for doing that, you know. And what's been really nice about this. in a weird way is that. I've lost a lot of people in the fire. over this. There's been a lot of. casualties. Friends that I thought were.

close to me are not. people I feel like are manipulating my. situation for their own means. I feel. like. it's cost me. multiple relationships with people, including family members. Hopefully, we. can rebuild. I hope we can. Um, but what. it's done has left me with a core circle. of people I know genuinely care about. me. The people that I've got in my life now. and the small circle that I remain with.

are my people. They're important to me. and I know I can trust them and I love. them all dearly and that is a blessing. There are good things that have come out. of this but it doesn't excuse it. You. know it doesn't. and I say this if you don't know the. code to my w you know if you don't know. the code to my Wi-Fi at my house you are. not my friend. There are people now. reaching out after 18 months, three.

years. All right, Jay, good news. How's. it going, mate? Nah, not interested, dude. Uh, the people that were in the. trenches with me, the people that got. down and actually backed me, trusted me, believed in me when I said I didn't do. anything wrong. They're my people. And if you haven't heard from me for 3. years, there's a reason why. And if I. haven't heard from you in 3 years, don't. bother. I'm done. You know, it's a shame. Well, Jay,

I'm sorry, man. I am sorry this is. happening to you and. it's killing me right now that I can't. think of a solution, but I'll be. thinking on it and we'll do the best. that we can to get this out there as. wide as we possibly can to as many. people as possibly as as as we possibly. can. and um. I'll be thinking of people that I can. connect you with. It's I can't say thank you enough. And.

again, it's almost like. it hurts me. that I'm in this position and that. people feel like they have to help me. I'm a proud man, you know, and I don't I. don't want to ask people for help, but I. I don't know what to do. I I don't I. don't I don't know how this gets solved. or. how we rectify it and it doesn't happen. again. Like I am [ __ ] so grateful for.

the opportunity to sit here and say. this. I'm so so thankful for all of you. guys. It's not lost to me that you are. thousands of miles away from your home. and that you've taken this and I can see. it. I I understand that this resonates. with you and I know it resonates with a. lot of people and. yeah, it it's it's humbling to see. there are good people out there that. want to see good things happen to good. people.

And that's a lifeline for me. That's. something that gives me a lot of. strength and a lot of confidence. And. there are times I really need to draw on. that and remember that it's, you know, there's good there's good people out. there. The regiment's a fantastic. organization. It shouldn't be put in. this position by top brass. It shouldn't. be. It's people should be looked after. by these politicians and these generals. Like I said before, I love it. I loved.

it to death. I still do. I'm very proud. of it. But the people that organize and run. that [ __ ] need to change. They're. destroying the organization. If they don't address it, it's going to. it's not positive. Nobody can do their. job if this is looming. No, you can't. We talked about that at the beginning. We've been through a lot. Yeah. It's been a rough go for you. You.

definitely don't need to be dealing with. this [ __ ] I'd rather not. I'm sorry. It's not you, brother. But I appreciate. that. Thank you. I do. I genuinely do. appreciate that, Sean. And. hopefully some good will come out of. this. I'm an optimist. I am. I'm an. optimist. And I think with my background. and. my life, I wouldn't be sad if I wasn't. You know, I'm an eternal optimist to a point, but.

at the same time acutely aware of. how [ __ ] up this whole situation is. and it needs to be changed. One of the. things I won't keep talking about it and. you know. it's it's unnerving to see the level. that these people were willing to go to. show. transparency to the point where for the. longest time I genuinely thought I would. end up standing. in a dock and there was going to be a.

moment in my future where 12 people. would disappear and come back and. someone would say are you guilty yes or. no? Sitting in a cage felt like a very very. real possibility for me for a long time. And people were going, "Nah, it's never. going to go that far." I was like, "Well, it's gone this far for that long. What else is coming?" You know, that's a. bad place to be. And I'm grateful that. I'm not in that position anymore. So, let's just hope good comes from. this. People look at it and go, "Yeah,

we need to [ __ ] make some fundamental. changes how we treat our soldiers.". not just now but in the past guys. dealing with legacy stuff and I spoke to. DJ about this. and to Cole. and I'm sitting there thinking what. about the guy that lives in Heraford. that has been involved in this for 20 30. years from something that happened in. Northern Ireland and he made a split.

decision split-second decision he's not. coming on the Shawn Ryan show he can. write all the [ __ ] letters he wants. to, whoever he wants. No one's going to. hear him. Hear me cuz I'm blessed. I'm. in a position where I've got friends. that do have a platform. And I'm damn. sure I'm not going to waste that. opportunity. I'm not trying to sound like I'm a some. sort of white knight or I'm a martyr. Far from that. My life's far from. perfect as we've just found out. But.

if we can weaponize. the ability to get this scene and. broadcast and that message out there to. the point where it becomes loud and. people cannot do this again, then that's. it. That's worth it. And if I didn't do. that, then I don't think I'd be able to look. myself in the mirror properly. If I just. ride off into the sunset, that's not who I am. I didn't leave my.

teammates in the fight that day, and I. [ __ ] damn sure ain't going to leave. my teammates in the fight now. I'm here. to the [ __ ] bitter end, whatever this. looks like. And I'm willing. I'm willing. to go all the way. And I know I've got a. team of people behind me that little. back all the way. So, let's just hope. that the message lands. and that some good comes out of it, you. know. Well, Jay, like I said, we'll do. everything we can to get this out as big. as possible, as wide as possible to as. many people as possible, and I'll be.

thinking of ways that that that we can. help you further, and if something comes. to me, I'll let you know. Awesome, Sean. Thank you. Stay in touch. and um. just want you to know. thank you for being here and and it was. an honor to interview you. It was a real honor and I [ __ ] hate. that this is happening. So,

thank you. It's it's reciprocated. Like. I've watched you interview some of my. heroes. I've watched your. voice help people directly. I've seen. the impact that DJ's interview had on. people. firsthand on dozens of occasions. and you do a good thing. So to be sat. here in front of you is a a little bit. surreal but also extremely humbling. So, you know, thank thank you again. And.

I probably won't do another one of. these. Certainly not for a long period. of time and certainly not for these. reasons. I didn't do anything before because this. this this platform is is is where this. needed to be heard. And I'm grateful. that we had the patience to wait and we. did it properly. and we've come here to. Dubai. and uh we've done it properly and I'm. glad for it, you know. So, thank you and.

same to you, Jeremy. Thank you for. reaching out and that weird set of, you. know, circumstances. Well, I told you that I don't believe in. coincidences and to get your name. brought to my face three times in 15. minutes, totally [ __ ] random. Yep. I got a feeling something's going to. happen because I'm I'm here because that. happened and I don't I don't believe in. coincidences. So. have faith. I've got faith. All right,

brother. Thank you. God bless. Thank you, brother. [Music]. No matter where you're watching Shawn. Ryan Show from, if you get anything out. of this, please like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share. this everywhere you possibly can. And if. you're feeling extra generous, please.

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