Eric Frohardt - DEVGRU Gold Squadron Sniper and Assaulter | SRS #313

Eric Frohart, welcome to the show, man. >> Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. >> It's good to have you. So, >> it's good to be here. >> Eddie Penny uh connected us. >> Yep. >> I love Eddie. >> Yep. >> He's a huge inspiration into my faith. journey and. >> Wow. >> Yeah, that's awesome. >> How long have you guys known each other? So Eddie and I were we were together at. Gold for a while. Um I've known I didn't.

know him before he got there because I. came from team five and he came from I. want to say team two. >> Team two. Yeah. >> So I think I got to. I got to go a little bit before him and. then he you know he got there and then. you know I met him and we started. working together. >> Right on. So Right on. Good dude. >> Yeah. Great. >> Well I'm glad we connected. Yeah, I'm. thrilled to be here. Thanks, man. >> Thrilled to have you. So, let me start. you off with a introduction here if you.

don't mind. >> Yep. >> Eric Frohart, you spent nearly 12 years. as a Navy Seal, serving with both SEAL. team 5 and Naval Special Warfare. Development Group. You deployed around. the world, specialized as a sniper, pointman, and lead climber, and and. completed climbs of Elcapatan, Denali, and. >> Aken Kagwa. >> There it is. You were medically retired. as a SEAL operator chief after combat.

injuries and a medical condition that. cost you a kidney. Since leaving the. military, you've built and led. high-erforming teams across multiple. industries and now serve as chief. standards officer at Golden Rod. Companies. You're a leadership speaker, board member, husband, father of four, and a committed follower of Christ. Welcome to the show. >> Thanks for having me, bro. >> Got you a present. You want to see it? >> Yeah. >> All right. >> All right.

>> Do I make get up or. >> No, no, I got it. Oh, >> since you uh since you don't have any. truck guns, >> dude. >> Thought maybe uh you might like one of. these. So, >> that is the ultimate. >> Do you know what that is? >> Oh my gosh, bro. That is sweet. >> That's the. Sig Sauer Rattler. So, SPR version with. the collaps or the foldable stock fixed.

iron sights. That's one of Sig's new red. dot optics up there. It's got a Sig. flashlight on there with the thumb. activation switch. And then. >> Silencer Shop. >> Oh my gosh. >> They heard you were coming, too. So So. the gun is from my friend Jason over at. Sig. And then Silencer Shop heard you. were coming. So they wanted to throw a. can on there, a suppressor. >> I love Silencer Shop cuz they do all. this extra stuff for the Second. Amendment. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, and uh, yeah, they were.

pumped that you were coming on the show, so they wanted to uh, they wanted to. present you with a brand new 300. Blackout truck gun, bro. Uh, I Well, first of all, thank you to you. Uh, thank you Sig and Silenture Shop. That. is that is freaking amazing. How does. this work? You got to uh push the top.

push the top thing down. >> This thing down. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I see it. >> Dude, that is. >> suppressor's illegal in Nebraska, right? >> Yeah. >> Cool. I thought so. >> Did you use 300 Blackout at Dev Group at. all? >> Uh was they were starting to a little. bit really. >> Um but then I I always ran a 416. >> Mhm. um a P226. before they were switching.

>> And then some of the like some of the. dog handlers and maybe EOD guys were. running the um what was it? The MP7, right? The little uh. >> Yeah. >> Um and then when I did wrecky work and. sniper work, you know, once in a while, uh what was it? The 417, but that thing was just big and loud. So. most of the time 416. >> Right on. Yeah. >> Right on. This is freaking amazing. Thank you. >> Maybe you can use these on your uh next.

adventure. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Fine. >> These are awesome. Thank you. >> So, you're leaving at the end? >> Legal in all 50 states. >> Legal in all 50 states. >> I got to take these back to Nebraska. >> Get them past the drugs. >> Yep. You'll be good. You'll be I've got. them passed several times. But, um yeah, maybe you can use those on. your climb. You're getting ready to. leave on a climb, right? >> That's right. That's right. getting. ready to uh climb Kilamanjaro. Um we're taking off in about.

almost 20 days. It's just 21 days. So we. are climbing. My son and I along with. eight other climbers are going to go. climb Kilimanjaro. um to help raise money and awareness for. um Global Partners and Hope, which is a. uh it's a nonprofit based in Omaha that. does work in uh West Africa. Um. specifically they do um.

they build water wells and uh medical. treatment facilities um kind of like. treatment centers in uh kind of. underserved um French kind of the. French-speaking West African area. >> Right on man. Um, oddly, I had met the So, I met the CEO. and founder of Global Partners and Hope. when I was moving to Nebraska. I emailed. my former commanding officer at.

Devgroup. Um, he was Captain Moore when. I left and now he's retired Admiral. Scott Moore. And I told him and I was. telling a lot of my friends like I'm. just I'm leaving Colorado. I'm moving to. Omaha. Just giving people a heads up, right? And I had stayed in touch with my. I had stayed in touch with um at the. time Captain Moore. Anyway, he's like, "You got to go meet this guy Ian when. you move to Omaha. He runs a nonprofit.

there. He's connected to everyone.". So a few months after I live there, I go. and meet Ian Vickers. uh and he who run he started Global. Partners and Hope and is the CEO and. executive director. I go and meet him. and. before he had started that he was the. pastor of a church. and built a big church in Omaha. And. then before that, he he mentioned to me.

that he preached at a in a very small. town in northwest Iowa. And the town was. same town as where one of my aunts and. uncles lived. And I asked. >> I'm like, "Do you know. my aunt and uncle, Joyce and Alvin?" And. he's like, "Oh my gosh, I pastored their. church in northwest Iowa." Not only. that, he lived with them while his house. while he was trying to move into his. house. >> Wow. >> So, we just kind of we kind of.

connected. He started introduced me to. some people in Omaha. Uh eventually, he. asked me to be on his board. So, now I'm. a board member. Um honored to be on the. board of Global Partners and Hope. And. um a couple of I think it was the end of. maybe the end of uh 2025 at one of our. board meetings, we had heard about a a. similar nonprofit that was doing an a.

climb in Africa, climbing Kilamanjaro. to raise money and awareness for their. cause. and we just. one of us kind of posited the idea of. doing it for what we're trying to. support and then. before I knew it uh we had 10 of us. signed up to go climb Kilamanjaro. So um. we are going to leave in 20 days and the.

money we raise from this climb is going. specifically. to water wells and a medical treatment. facility there. And in that part of. Africa. like access to clean water is is so. limited and just having clean water. saves so many lives. And not only does. it save lives, it gives women and kids. more time because kids during the day,

they might be sent to fetch water from. somewhere that has clean water. >> Y. >> So now they're spending their day. fetching water. They can't get educated. >> So just a just a well makes a huge. difference. And the wells that Ian. builds and that Global Partners builds, they are self self- sustained. So when. we build these wells there, they. we train the locals how to operate them. So when when money is raised, we don't.

go back to donors later and say, "Hey, we need to that well we put in it needs. to be fixed over and over again, right? Like they're self- sustained." And the. treatment facilities we build are are. the same way. Um, and we're like a. little bit goes so far there like uh Ian. like Ian teaches at a college in Omaha. Kraton and I've seen him like ask the. kids like hey who in here was you know.

born from C-section cescareian section. and generally something like I don't. know what the percentage is now but it. could be 10 20% or whatever it is. I. have four kids, all born by C-section, right? And he's like, "Now put your. hands down cuz you wouldn't be here.". Cuz in places like West Africa, if the. mom needs a C-section, like the mom dies, the baby dies, right? So in this little treatment facility.

there, um. couple hundred people and a couple. hundred moms will be alive because of a. just a new little hospital. >> Wow. And the the crazy thing is like the. hospital that he's building there that. the treatment facility it's something. like like $180,000. >> I saw that. >> Which is you know even in Omaha where. it's very affordable. Like you can't you. barely buy a house for that in our.

country. So, um, we're climbing. Kilamanjaro to raise money to help with. the well and a treatment facility and, um, you know, we're going to go whatever. it's 44 miles and you start at like. 12,000 ft and you finish at 19,400ish. So, it's 44 miles and whatever, you. know, 7,000 foot of elevation gain. And. you're going to spend we're going to. spend seven nights sleeping in a tent,

eating dehydrated food, and hiking all. day. And, you know, it's hard, but like. we're choosing to do it, you know what I. mean? And they're like their their days. are that hard and they they don't get to. choose, you know what I mean? So, >> yeah, man. That's cool. Is there a uh. we'll put the link in the description. for anybody that wants to. >> in on that. >> We have a we have a a a landing page for. all the different climbers and each each. separate climber has their own landing.

page and my son and I have our own our. own page and I'll give you the link and. I mean 50 bucks goes a long way. So um. yeah, very exciting. >> Noble cause man. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> So let's get into your story. Where did you grow up? >> I grew up in a very small town in. northwest Iowa called Sak City, Iowa. I. was born in Fort Dodge, Iowa. It's like. 40 minutes away from there. Um, and I.

was raised in a small town and uh grew. up. mostly working on the farm. So, my mom. was a nurse and my dad was a farmer and. you know, I spent uh. as much time as I can remember out on. that farm. So, yeah, very small town. >> What are you guys farming? >> We raised um corn, soybeans, and hogs.

And. for us, I like I think at our highest. maybe we had 800 acres of like corn and. soybeans, right? Um but most of the. labor was hogs because with the corn, you plant it. Um same thing with the beans. You know, you plant it and then it's in the field. and then um you don't really do much to.

it until harvest time, right? But year. round there was hog work. Um, and we had. like back then it was pharaoh to finish. So we had like boy hogs and girl hogs. and they had baby hogs. And the way it. works now is. >> people generally buy hogs that have been. weaned from the moms and finish them. out, right? But we had, >> you know, we had hogs indoors and. outdoors and pretty big operation. So,

um it was uh I I tell people now like. like the farm I I learned so much on. that farm and it helped shape me and it. like honestly it forged me. It like it. helped me make it through buds. Um but. like hog farming is. like it's not glamorous. >> Yeah, right. >> I'll bet I'll bet it's not. There's no.

there's no hog farm version of. Yellowstone, right? It's just and like I. just remember like I hated it. Like. >> really? >> Well, I mean I liked being on the farm. and like working, but then it was like. there were days when you're like, "All. right, I'm going to hard work. um low pay and you know, and just. sometimes dirty nasty work, you know. what I mean?" And and I've told my dad. since, you know, I wouldn't wouldn't.

trade it for anything, you know. So, >> yeah. Do you have brothers and sisters? >> I do. Uh I have two brothers and a. sister. So, um one of my brothers and my. sister live in Omaha and then one of my. brothers is in Orlando. >> Right on. >> Yeah. And we're all very uh we're all. very close still. So, >> Right on. >> Yeah. I live about a mile and a half. from one of my brothers. Wow, that's. awesome. >> Yeah. >> Were you where do you fall on the birth.

order? >> What's that? >> Where do you fall in the birth order? >> I'm the oldest. >> You're the oldest. >> I am the oldest. Yep. >> Right on. What were you in? What else. were you into as a kid? >> So, I grew up on the farm. Um, you know, it was very work hard, play. hard, right? Um, get the work done. But. we had four-wheelers, we had a dirt. bike, we had a Honda Odyssey, like the. old like singleseat dune buggy before. before they renamed a minivan on.

Odyssey. And uh you know, fishing and hunting and. just building like when I was little, like building forts, just all that sort. of thing on the farm. um. tubing, you know, behind the. four-wheeler in the snow and just, you. know, just you kind of made your own fun. out on the farm, right? Um. >> but. uh then as I got into like middle school.

and then in high school, I was, you. know, really loved football and lifting. weights. So, um. >> Were you close with your parents? >> Very, very close. So, I um. like I don't. I don't have like a Saab story like some. people who, you know, joined the. military. Like I grew up with very. loving parents and um. who, you know, we weren't spoiled by any. means. We worked hard, but we had, you. know, we had a nice home. Uh we always.

had amazing meals and we always had. spent time together and like watched TV. together like everyone did back then. Um. and close to my siblings and you know. all of that. So, um I learned a lot from. like learned a lot from my parents, you. know. Um and my mom was just so so calm. and so caring and so loving and she.

worked so hard for us. Um and she was. she was gone a lot cuz she was a a. nurse. Um but she would always still. like find time to make our favorite. favorite meals and that sort of thing. and she was most of all I remember about. my mom was just her calmness and um. that's something that helped me like. when I was in the teams right and I. could always kind of just be. relatively calm when things were getting.

like wild and my dad on the other hand. is not calm like he's just like this big. ball of energy or or was and he like. when I graduated high school my dad was. I don't know, like almost 6'5 but 340. and he he could. like I was training for football and he. could still beat me in a 40 yard dash. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> He's a monster. >> Are you serious? >> Yeah. And like he he can't put his index.

finger through the trigger guard of a. Glock 19. Like he's a beast. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. And so I'm like, holy [ __ ]. >> I couldn't like, you know, if if I like. mouththed off to him, he could just pick. me up with one hand or whatever. Um, but. he, you know, I learned a lot from him, too. Um, we worked hard, but he always. played with us. He always did things. with us. like kids from other like my.

friends would come out because he would. like he could work all day and then pull. us around on a on behind the. four-wheeler in the snow. Like he always. he's very playful. Um but then he also, you know, taught us like to be. responsible. So like if you had a job to. do on the farm, like you were. responsible for getting it done and then. accountable for the results, right? So. if you left if you left the pen open and.

the hogs got out, like you better take. blame for it and you better go put them. back in, right? Um and the thing most of. all from him was probably just respect. of women. So the the cardinal offense in. our house, like if mom got upset, like. we were in trouble and you didn't want. to make my dad angry. Like a he had a. temper, but he's also almost 6'5, 350, right? Like he could he could be scary. So.

>> I'll bet. >> um if mom got angry like we tried to, you know, butter her up before dad got. on. Oh. Anyway, yeah, >> for this show, the biggest thing is. preparation. When you're sitting down. for a long form conversation, you can't. just show up with surface level notes. You need real depth, structure, and the. right questions. That's where I've been. using Claude. It's helped me with. research, building outlines, and shaping.

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>> Were you good at sports? >> You know, I. I thought I was like, so you in a small. town, you kind of get to do everything. >> Mhm. >> And when I was really when I was. younger, it was T-ball and then Little. League and then, you know, I made the. All-Star team in Little League, but it's. such a small town, right? And then there. was a time where in the summer I would. be doing like baseball and swimming and.

I was like I was on an all-star baseball. team and a all district swimmer but this. is a town of whatever 1,200 people. right? Um I don't I don't know how big. it is now but it's not huge. I graduated. with right around 30. >> Dang. So, but I always loved uh like for. whatever reason like I just loved. football. and. um I worked.

I worked so hard to play football and I. so I had played all those sports. and basketball like you kind of ran. track you just did it all right. Uh. there was and back then people didn't. specialize either and it was a small. town so a small school you kind of kind. of could do it all. >> Yeah. >> Um. >> if I was in even Omaha now I probably. wouldn't make the team on half those. sports. >> in any of those schools. Right. So I.

but I think it was my. by the time I got to high school, I was. just so tired of not having a summer cuz. it was like. like grade school and middle school. I would have swim team practice in the. morning, go to the farm all day, and then have. baseball practice at night. Wow. And. then once the practices were kind of. over, there was game times. So there.

were there were times where I would have. two swim meets a week. and two baseball games a week, maybe a. tournament on the weekend and farming. every day. Right. So my summers they. were a blink. >> Yeah. The busy kid. >> And then so when I got into high school, like I just had this like epiphany. I'm. like, I'm just gonna play football. and my summers were going to be spent. lifting weights and doing farm work and.

fishing, right? And then maybe some, you know, running and conditioning stuff for. football. And then all of a sudden, like. I just had these awesome summers. Like I. was just lifting weights in the morning. Um or doing the football conditioning. stuff, the sprints, farm all day, work. on the farm all day, and then you know, maybe go fishing or go out or something. at night. Um and I I like that was a lot. of fun. >> But I was uh I was decent at football.

Um I think my senior year I was, you. know, pretty good. thought I was um made. all state as a linebacker. Um. I think it was like second team all. state or whatever, but I'm like ah I'm. going to I'm going to get like and I. wanted it really bad, right? Um, so I. went and tried to play football in. college and my, again, my dad's really. big and my uncles are anywhere from 63.

to 6'4 and big. Uh, I mean, my little. brother, he graduated high school at 65 to 75. And my cousins are 63. I mean, my other. little brother right now is 63. I'm the. I'm, you know, kind of the runt. But I. thought like, oh, I'm going to go to. college and I'm just going to go to. junior college because I'm just going to.

hit my growth spurt later. Like I was. planning a growth spurt. and I'll go to junior college and I'll. get like two years of football, right? I'll get get I'll get on their strength. and conditioning program and eat some. more and then I'll get better at. football and like two years later I'm. going to get a like this was my plan. I'm going to get a division one. scholarship to Iowa State and play, right? Like that's what I that's what I. wanted more than anything, right? So,

graduate high school. I go to a junior. college, community college in Mason. City, Iowa called NYAK, uh, Northern Iowa Area Community. College. And I get up there and I'm thinking. like, it's just junior college. It's. going to be like 13th grade, right? Like. it ain't it's not like I'm going to. >> like back then like I live in Nebraska.

now and in the 90s Nebraska was like the. football program. >> So it wasn't like I was going to play. division one at Nebraska where I you. know probably wasn't worthy of carrying. water, right? and I show up I show up at. NYAK and there were a few people like me. kind of farm kids but there was also. like division one talent there from. other states who were like like Iowa and. like parts of the Midwest they have a. good like junior college feeder program.

that like feed the main universities and. there's people there. >> that maybe didn't have good enough GPA. or high enough ACTs got. >> and they're getting their grades up to. then go play elsewhere. So, we had. people on our team like get picked up to. go play division one later and it was a. good junior college team. So, I get. there and. wouldn't you know it, I'm like not that. good. Uh like I.

and I had, you know, I had like bulked. up a bunch, right? I got above 200 by. the time I before I went there, but I. was trying to play linebacker. and like the linebackers were like 220. and they could run faster than me. Like. I had. the speed like of a lineman and I was. strong. I just couldn't like like I. couldn't play right. So, I like to say I.

wasn't big enough, strong enough, or. fast enough, but like I just wasn't good. enough, right? And it was uh. it was kind of eye opening when you just. see that kind of talent. But like the. cool thing like. like I don't have any regrets because. like I like to say like you know I never. achieved my grid iron goals. Um, but I learned so much. Like I learned. just like football is a hard sport, right?

>> The games are fun when you're good, >> but practices are hard, right? Um, you're hitting, you're wearing pads. I. remember in high school, we were doing. two a days in Iowa and it's hot, right? So we would have morning practice. and then a late afternoon practice. And. in between that, instead of going home. and playing video games and drinking. Gatorade like half my friends, I had to. go work on the farm between the morning.

and the afternoon practice, right? And I. might be bailing hay and drinking Pepsi, right? Like instead of video games. But. back to football. Football is hard. Um, it can hurt, but you learn like so much. about teamwork and commitment and. preparation. Like every the more the. more time you spend in the weight room. or offseason conditioning, the better. you'll be. Like you just learn all these.

things and you learn kind of like a team. sport, how to win and how to lose. like. some people that don't play those sports. like they just like don't have that. experience, right? Um. >> so I learned a lot from football and I. never achieved my goals but like. like sometimes the person you become in. pursuit of a goal is the actual like you. didn't know it at the time but that's. the reward. >> You know what I mean? Um, and we were.

I don't know, we had finished uh. finished a year of football. and. a I mean, you will get a kick out of. this, but we're watching a movie about. seals in a dorm room and I've had like. maybe like. three or four natural lights, like the. cheap version of Bud Light. >> Yeah. And I'm sitting there.

like and I it's I'm ashamed to say it. was G.I. Jane. We're literally watching. and my one of my friends in college had. like rented GI Jane from Blockbuster. >> I got hooked on it. >> And I watch it. I'm like. three or four beers deep and I just I. don't know a light bulb goes off. literally and I go I'm going to join the. Navy and be a SEAL. I'm so I'm not going. to play football. >> That moment. >> Yeah. like right there. >> Yeah. I stood up. I said this in the.

dorm room. And we had one dorm room that. was like no beds in it. It kind of was. converted into it had like two couches. and a TV, like a party room. >> Yeah. >> And I just said, uh, this light bulb went off. I'm like, I'm. going to join the Navy and become a. SEAL. And someone in the room was like, yeah, whatever. You'll never do it. You. can't do it. like you're not big enough. Like it wasn't big enough, but like.

>> I know a guy who was a Marine. He's much. tougher. You'll never make it. Yeah. Right. And like in that like I just. needed someone to say I couldn't do it. And I enlisted in the Navy the next day. >> Holy [ __ ] Are you. >> on a bet? >> On a bet. >> Still hung over from Lighter. from GI Jane. >> Damn. >> Right now I didn't leave the next day. Hey, I I joined on delayed entry, right? The de it was called. >> Were you just hoping that all your.

teammates look like Demi Moore? >> I just thought like so I there was. something like, you know, like we all have a chip on our. shoulder that go and do that. We're like. going to prove something. Yeah. >> Right. And I'm like I'm sitting there in. college. I'm like, well, I'm not proving. anything here sitting as a third string. outside linebacker, right? I need to go. do something different, right? And uh I. will be the first to say it was a like.

we can get into this later, but it was a. selfish pursuit. After 911, that all changes like because. now I'm like, oh, I'm serving my. country, but I joined the Navy to go. prove that I could go do something, which that's fine, right? like it's it. is what it is. I wanted to prove that I. could do it and then I had someone tell. me I couldn't do it. I enlisted in the. Navy the next day on a bet and then. I was in the delayed entry program. So I.

finished out my uh. finished out my one year of college. because I'm like I might as well finish. this year in case I go back or whatever. And then that time I think college got. over that year of college gets over in. what like May something. So from May to. October I'm on delayed entry and then I. go back I go back to Sak City and um.

I literally have this like period of my. life that is like one of the most. purposeful m like seasons that I've ever. had because I was. you know I was young. like 19. um. but I knew what I wanted to do with my. life like there was I was singularly. focused, right? I was going to be a Navy. Seal. I had so much clarity like about.

that and so much purpose. So I would and. I had gotten this dumb little like. printed PDF from the recruiter. It was. called the warning order back then. And. it's this old school like. it's like 15 pages of eight and a half. by 11 paper that's stapled in the corner. that it has the the running program, the swimming program, and then the.

calisthenics program, the push-ups, the. pull-ups, the sit-ups, and the dips. And to me, like I took that home and. you know, I had finished my junior year. of college or I'm sorry, my one year of. college. Um, and I was like 215 pounds. Like I had. bulked up for for ball, but I I wasn't. getting any faster and I wasn't still. going to play. Um, and I show up back in back at home and I.

got this now I got this path, right? And. I literally like I'm going to spend the. whole summer just working on the farm. and working out. So I like that whole. time basically June through October. Like every morning I would do um I would. work up it worked you up to a two-mile. swim, right? So it had a it sequentially. got longer. So towards the end of that, like five, like three to five days a.

week, I'm doing a two-mile swim in Fins. in a pool. >> Like it's in a rec center indoors. >> And I remember it was like, >> how many laps is that? >> 44. >> Oh my gosh. >> It was 88 lengths. >> Damn. >> It was 88 lengths or 44 laps. And I. would like sometimes lose count. So I. was like, you know, I'm trying to figure. out how to keep my count. Um, and I would do that every morning, right? Like anywhere from 3 to 5 days a.

week. And then the running program, well, I'll go sequentially. Then there. was the push-ups, the pull-ups, and the. sit-ups. And they had these pyramids, and it was anywhere from three to four. days a week, right? And like they have so much better [ __ ]. now from like the human performance side. like and they have P like they have. these programs that the SEAL recruiters. give you. This is just an old printed. off thing that I got from a Navy.

recruiter in Mason City, Iowa. Yeah. But. I'll never forget like I didn't even. have pull-up bars. So, I like I build a. pull-up bar from a rafter in the barn. and then, you know, I had this piece of. carpet on the floor in a shop, like a. machine shop. >> Mhm. >> For push-ups and sit-ups, just a piece. of old like kind of like this, right? That was my PT pad. >> Nice. >> And then I even like built a dip bar in.

the shop. So, it was kind of like Rocky. four, right? Not bad. So, I'd do my swim. in the morning. I'd go to the farm all. day and I'd do chores and do do the work. or whatever whatever I was doing. And. throughout the day, I would take a break. and grab a set of pull-ups, set of. push-ups, sit-ups, dips, whatever the. program called for. And then when. sometime late afternoon, you know, maybe. when the chores were almost done or even. like we had a we had a farm site that.

was like three miles away, right, from. this one farm site. So if that day. called for a six mile run, >> like I would just put on shorts and run. in my boots from this farm to that farm, do chores, and then run back. So I'm. like farming all day. I do like two mile. swim every day, farming all day, and. then work up to like five or six mile. runs every day. And I'm like super in.

shape, right? >> Yeah. >> Uh and then I'm sure you experience the. same thing. you get in like you get in. this great shape and then you go to boot. camp and get out of shape at least Navy. boot camp. >> But I you know a big part of the story. that I'm leaving out was my dad's um. support. >> I was going to ask what did your parents. think? >> So on the one hand it was like so. helpful when someone said I couldn't do. it. Like I needed someone to say you. couldn't do that. I was going to prove.

them wrong. And then I came home from. college. I think it was around Christmas or New. Year's, you know, the break. And I told. my I told my folks, like we were at my grandpa's house and. have getting ready to have Christmas. dinner and I was like I had I had been. meaning to tell him sooner, but I just. didn't have the courage cuz I thought he. was going to like whap me. >> Really? >> Right. Like I mean just jokingly like. >> Yeah. >> You dumbass. Don't. >> he want you to be a farmer or something? No, but I mean he wanted us to go to.

college, right? He didn't he didn't. actually he didn't want us to be farmer. >> He's like he doesn't want us to take. over the farm. It it's. our experience with farming was like. long work, hard hours. We didn't, you. know, we didn't make a ton doing it. We. didn't have land, you know, he didn't. inherit land. We couldn't buy land at. the time. Like it was it was just a lot. of work and it was for us not. >> anyway. He never like pushed us. He. never pushed us to be farmers. I mean,

we worked on the farm because that was. uh that paid for room and board, right? Um but in in a moment and he was just, you know, he's so awesome. But I I just. go, >> "All right, Dad. Well, I'm not going. back to college next year. I'm going to. be a Navy Seal." I said all that in like. one breath. and he just looks at me, you. know, looks down on me and he's just. like,

"Okay, well, like I forget the words. exactly, but something like like I. really think you'll be one of the few. that makes it through and you'll be good. at that. I'm excited for you, son.". Right. And and and to have that like. that encouragement, you know, from your. dad was just like, you know, so powerful. Yeah. And just a. reminder like you know hopefully someday. like I'll be aware enough where someone.

if they need that encouragement from me. like I can. mimic that. That makes sense. >> What did you tell them you were going to. be before that? Was it when you went to. school? >> I was taking a business and criminal. science classes. Right on. >> So, I was either going to be. a farmer or in the FBI. I I honestly didn't know. >> Right on.

>> And part of it was you go to junior. college, a lot of it's general ed, and. you might change later anyway, right? You you can get your general ed done at. junior college, community college, and. then go to university, and you might. change your mind by then. You know what. I mean? So, I was not uh. wasn't really sure. >> What about your mom? >> My mom? So, yeah, she's uh she was a. nurse. >> No, I mean, what did she think? >> Um,

well, she was concerned, right? Um, she. didn't really she didn't know what that. was, like what a seal was, right? My dad. knew because. you know he'd read even like Rogue. Warrior and. like when I grew up like as a little kid. every Friday dad would get a a tape. We. didn't have a Blockbuster but we had a. corner store with VCR. Like we would. have to rent a VCR and he would bring an.

action movie home. Could be Rambo or. Commando or Die Hard or like some 80s. action movie. >> Oh yeah, man. and and so like Friday. night was always like movie night and. like that like really shaped you know he. was aware of what seals were and one. time we did you know I think it was like. the. certainly in the 90s but he brought home. the Charlie Sheen seals movie and like. my brother and I watched that and. like the next day at the farm we had.

this swing set and we turned it into our. obstacle course and yeah so I was one of. It was like for a while I was one of. those like every time I watched a movie. my career path changed. Yeah. Like if it. was Backdraft I was going to be a. fireman. >> If it was GI Jane I was going to be a. Navy Seal. >> Um so yeah. Anyway, my mom was not. She's supportive of it, but like also.

like back then, like this is 98. Like it. wasn't like she she didn't know what I. was signing up for. >> You know what I mean? >> Uh but mom, yeah, she. I would say, you know, fast forward to. 2001 and now I'm on deployment. like. they're, you know, they're turning into prayer. warriors just because of the way things. changed. So, I made it um.

I don't know, uh finished my year of. college. I had that summer of purpose. and trained and I shipped off and went. to boot camp in October. >> Right on. Um, and then boot camp, you know, it's uh. I'm sure you experience the same thing. Like you get in really good shape and. then you go there and you're just. folding clothes and. doing dishes and I mean it was awful. I. mean, was yours the same? >> Yeah.

>> I mean, >> shining. >> shining your boots. >> Shining your boots. Sweeping the floor. About cleaning. Swabbing the deck. >> Swabbing the deck. >> Yeah. >> No. Boot camp. Boot camp for me. >> Basically all the extra motivation you. need not to quit bugs. >> 100%. That That's absolutely right. >> Oh, this is what I'll be doing if I. don't make it, >> right? >> This is [ __ ] horrible. >> No thanks, bro. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No. So, I go to boot camp in um.

October of 98 and. it's mostly uneventful. There's two. things that stand out about boot camp. A. I I met Matt Bisette and I were in. sister divisions in boot camp. >> Oh, no [ __ ]. >> So, um I meet him in boot camp. We end up going to Buds one class apart. Um, I go a class before him because he.

had a longer a school, but then we show. up at team five together. We're in the. same ST class at SEAL team five and we. do. for two rotations at team five. We are. in sister platoon, right? So, we're kind. of going through all this together. I would have gone to dev group the same. time he did were it not for my kidney. thing, which we'll get into. Uh, so I've. known no one longer in the military than. him. Wow. Wow. So met Matt in uh in boot.

camp and then it was towards so towards. the end of boot camp um. the and boot camp again it's so it's. pretty easy. A I was in really really. good shape and B like the work like the. work ethic you learn on a farm right. which just carried me through has. carried me through so many things made. like boot camp was simple but at the end.

of boot camp. um I I had this like extreme pain in my. side right and. like my parents come to be there for. graduation and like you get to go spend. and like I don't think we got to stay in. the hotel with them, but like they could. pick you up during the day and like. take you out to eat or whatever. And so. I've been at boot camp and I had missed. my folks and missed my siblings and my.

brothers and sister and they're all. younger and I'm like like as boot camp. approaches, you're just so excited to. see your family. It's been like three. months and you're just so excited to get. out on town and eat real food, not this. crap from this chow hall. >> They finally get there and boot camp's. finally over and I can't do it because. I'm in this like I just go back to their. hotel room and I'm curled up in a ball. on the bed, right? and I just want to be.

in a fetal position. And I get like so I. I get like I see the doctors, the boot. camp doctors, and they're just like, well, it's probably IBS, irritable bowel. syndrome, and eventually it kind of goes. away, right? Uh or whatever. And I this. this is a pain that would plague me like. in boot camp at the end of boot camp and. then once in buds during hell week and.

then. once in sniper school and then once in. land warfare for when I was at team five. and I would. later find out like it's a kidney stone. So I had this pain. >> been in there that [ __ ] long. Well, I. would I would they would pass, right? And. they would like they would like somehow. the way the doctor explained it to me.

like it would get stuck in the. my the urer is the tube. >> between your kidney and your bladder. And mine was like had like scar tissue. in it. So there would be times where my. kidney wouldn't drain all the way. And. then if it would get backed up, it would. form a stone. Right? So I find out never. diagnosed like I'm diagnosed in boot. camp with IBS and constipation.

and it's a blocked kidney. >> So and I'll go through that. sequentially, but like so I finish boot. camp and then I go to. whatever back then um. seal wasn't a rate. Uh-huh. >> So, I went to a school. I went to Sonar. Tech. Sonar Techch a school in. Pointloma. So, anyway, uh that was like.

I think that's like five weeks sonar. tech, but they don't and they don't send. a fiveweek a school graduate into the. fleet. They have to go through other. training before they're actual sonar. techs. Um, and I was the I was the honor man of my. sonar techch a school and they were. going to give me my choice of orders. I'm I'm like, well, I'm going to buds.

>> Somebody else the first choice. >> Yeah. And you had to as you probably I. don't know when did you join? >> What? 2001. >> Okay. >> July of 2001. >> Got it. Right before 911. >> Yep. So, like back then you had to like. this was called the SEAL challenge. program. >> Same. >> And you were going to get E4 out of BUDS. if you made it, but you had to pass. these you had to pass a test in boot. camp and then in a school, right? And. then and then the first day of BUDS, as.

long as you pass those PRTs, you're in. it, right? So, >> you know the drill. >> Yeah, >> that's what I was doing. >> Right on. >> Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break and. then when we come back, we'll see if uh. all of the BUDS candidates when you. showed up look like Demi Moore. >> Yeah. >> It's 3:00 a.m. You hear a noise in the. house, and in that moment, you do not. want to be fumbling around looking for. keys, hoping a battery still works, or.

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support our show and tell them our show. sent you. >> Welcome to Hollywood versus reality. They do it right. >> What does he do in the movies? Tell me. if I'm doing this wrong cuz I don't. watch any of the little flick like that, right? Seems pretty cool. It is pretty. cool. >> Got to silence it.

In another lifetime, I did gun reviews. for a living. Proprietary magazines, supposedly the best engineering in the. world. When that breaks, you're. now bringing them back. It does look prettying cool. I got I got. to admit that. All right, Eric, we're back from the.

break. >> Yeah. >> Getting ready to show up to Buds. >> So, yeah. >> What's your first impression? What's it. like walking in there? >> Well, I was, you know, my time in the military and in. the team, like all of it is marked by. steep learning curves. You know, they. like. take people off the street, turn them. into seals, or in my case, take them off. the farm, right? And.

first of all, I'm one of the guys dumb. enough, like naive enough, like when. they're like, "Who's never been in the. ocean before?" And I'm like, >> "Right, like thinking it's a badge of. honor.". >> Yeah. >> And then, you know, whatever the. proctor, whoever the instructor was at. the time, he's like, "Get over here. We. got to go catch up.". Picks me to the ocean. like and we're. I'm in at the time PTRR or something, >> you know, before you're phased phased.

up. >> And uh he just proceeds to surf torture. me until I'm stop shivering, right? And. I'm like, I don't you know, I had seen the ocean, I guess, technically, cuz I was in. PointLoma for a school, but I never been. in it. And like I didn't realize how. cold it was, how cold the Pacific Ocean, like. I watched Baywatch. That's what I. thought. >> I watched Ba [ __ ] Baywatch.

>> Well, everyone's running around in swim. trunks and, you know, >> bikini suits. >> Yeah. >> And I'm like, it can't be that bad. Right. So, long story short, I I wasn't. expecting the water to be that cold or. taste that gross. You know, that salt. >> Yeah. >> Uh but my first impression. that salt and [ __ ] coming up from. Tijana.

>> My first impression, it's I don't know. It was kind of interesting. And you kind. of look around and. you know, you're all kind of like. measuring each other like, you know, is. that guy going to be here at the end and. >> measuring each other up. >> Yeah. And I've done it, you know, I've. done it recently in uh college football. or whatever. You're kind of looking. around and trying to see where you might. fit. And. I for me, I I don't know.

I'm sure you had the same experience, but. I'm not sure how many people we started. with. I have seen and heard it was. somewhere around 180 or 160 or whatever. And we graduated. 6 months later with 19. Wow. Damn. 21 total, 19 originals. And if you.

you 21 total. 19. Holy [ __ ] You only. had two roll backs. >> three. So it's 22. Sorry. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> And we had. if you took like just just say it's. 150 or 190 or whatever it was we started. with. I wish I could find this out. and. you just took this long like this big.

panoramic photo and I gave you a Sharpie. and I said, "Now circle or not you, but. if I just gave it to some random person, circle the 19 people that are going to. make it through based on appearances.". Like, you wouldn't have circled me. Like, let's say all of our shirts are. off or whatever. you wouldn't have. circled me and you wouldn't have circled. half the people that made it through. because you can't really judge someone. by their appear like in that role.

>> Yep. >> Better example, a better example would. be Excel. Take all 190 or whatever, however many. candidates there were. and every name is on a row. So it's 190 rows or again however many. it was. And then every column was a. measurable run time, swim time, obstacle.

course, push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, like tested. And then I just said, "All right, now. highlight the 19 people who are going to. make it." Well, you wouldn't have I. wasn't in the top. You wouldn't have. chosen me. and you wouldn't have chosen. half the people that made it. Or even. even looking at pedigree, like if you. just looked at people's like resume. and there was a. there was like some really good, you.

know, college athletes or Olympic. alternate decathlete or whomever that. were the best runner, swimmer, push-ups, pull-ups, fastest ocourse. times, like all of those. Yeah. And. those people didn't make it. Like it's. so strange. And then you have like the. failed. junior college football players and the. washed out wrestlers and the whatever. Like it it was now for sure there were.

plenty of. there were plenty of guys that looked. like they were going to make it through. and had the measurables and had the. pedigree. like there were a few of. those, but that was more the exception. than the rule. So, it kind of taught me. like you can't judge by appearances, you can't judge by measurables, and you. can't judge by pedigree, at least in. that context. >> Y. >> because. like there's no quick way to measure a.

like a guy's heart. >> or or what they're. >> what they're willing and able to do, their drive, their determination, their. their resilience. And that's just revealed over a period. of time which is 6 months and they call. it buds, right? So to me like I think. like what makes someone make it through. that I don't know. Obviously there's. some grit, there's some determination,

there's some stubbornness, all these. things. But I think. >> something to prove. >> There's a there is that like, oh, I have. something to prove, right? Or a chip on. my shoulder. And I'm I'm from a such a. small town that like when I was going. through hell week, there were signs in. my town. Like I had friends that were. from these big big towns in New Jersey. and California and everywhere in between. and they're anonymous.

Like I'm not I'm not anonymous. >> Yeah. I there's a big deal just to get. out. I'm from a similar town. Actually, about eight times the size of your town. at 8,000 people, but. >> still small. >> Yeah. But uh but yeah, I mean just. getting out of the just getting out of a. small town is a big [ __ ] deal, right? >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and I go back there today, it's like. walking back in time, it's like, holy. [ __ ] everybody's still here, which is. awesome. >> I know. I have nothing against that. Um, I love my small town and I I literally.

the you know the bank signs that have. the ticker like the digital. >> Yeah. >> My parents are like there's your names. on the ticker cuz you're going through. hell week. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> In this little town and so. >> for me there's also this pressure like. I'm not going to quit. >> A I don't want to let my parents down. Uh, and B, I don't want to go back to my. hometown with my tail between my legs. Most of all, I had something to prove,

you know, I wanted to go do something. hard. And I think just having uh, it's. so many factors, but. just being very clear on what you want. to do and being willing to do it. Like. every time, and I thought about this a lot, but when I failed at something, it's. either I wasn't like crystal clear on. what not just what I wanted to do, but. what it would take, like I wasn't 100%.

clear on what I'm doing and what it will. take to succeed, or I wasn't willing. Like and there are there's it's great to. know like if there's something like to. succeed let's say to succeed as a. whatever. stock broker name the thing. uh race car driver two very weird. weirdly different roles. >> but like you have to know what it takes.

and then you have to be willing to do. what it takes to succeed. And if you. don't, if you're not willing, that's. fine. Don't do that. So for me, when I. as I look back and I look at different. things since with the benefit of. hindsight, like clarity and willingness. are like very important, right? Um, and. I think in Buds too, I mean, there's so. many different character traits, but.

like just resilience, like the ability to bounce back up. because no matter how good of an athlete. you are, um, you will fall and you will fail, right? Or you will you will be brought. low. And just the ability to return to. baseline, I think like kind of. >> I think that's a huge part of making it. through. >> Yeah. >> That not enough people talk. I mean, when you're bringing up washed up.

wrestlers and all that kind of [ __ ]. these are all people these are all kids. >> that have learned how to lose, you know. what I mean? And and. >> have gotten back up and tried it again. and again and again and again, you know. what I mean? And and I think, you know, when when you're talking about the best. athletes and cuz it's a big it's the big. mystery, right? Like how the [ __ ] do we. learn? Who the hell is going to make it. through these programs? It's been like. the question since. at least since I came along, which.

was that 20some years ago, you know, and. uh but yeah, I that's what I think. that's a big component is people that. that it's resiliency. Yeah. >> Right. It's learning how to lose, pick. your [ __ ] up, and get back after it. >> How to get how to get just get back up. >> Some people learn that through broken. homes. So, I think that's why there's a. lot of people that come from a broken. home that make it in there. And and uh. you you just really it's a mixed bag of. nuts when you get out. you know, you got. rich kids, poor kids, abused kids, like.

it, but they all I think that's that. seems to be a common denominator. >> Well, that's why, like I said, like I. I've heard, you know, the Navy. the Navy spent millions of dollars to. try to figure this out because they want. a higher attrition rate. So, they're. trying to get better, more qualified. people into it, but they can't. >> they still can't figure it out. The Army. has done the same thing with their.

special programs. and the answer is like there is no quick. test. It's revealed over the selection. >> Yep. >> Right. Um and the recipe is different. like the recipe that made me get through. that. My resilience came from. the farm, right? And the toughness that. I learned from my parents and playing. some football and, you know, I didn't. have the the classic Saab story, but I.

mean, I I had days in Buds that were. easier than days on the farm. Like, I. had farm days that were harder than SEAL. training. >> Yep. >> And that's where I learned that, right? So, I think you're right. I mean, there. is like you just look at a picture of. like a Bud's graduation photo and you. know them all so well and you think. about their stories like. New Jersey, California, Florida,

my swim buddy from Washington State, right? I mean, I was he was my swim. buddy the entire time. Like first, second, and third phase. >> Wow. >> We both made it through together. And. like you just hear their stories and. then they hear about the kid from the. middle of the country on a small farm in. Iowa and like there is yeah there is no. one there's no one story but there's. common denominators like people who knew. how to I guess get back up. >> right from falling and failing.

>> What what did you find what did you find. the most challenging. >> about buds? So, h. I was oddly So, I was oddly one of the. there's two of us in our class that. never failed one thing the first time. every time. So, I never won the time to. run, but I was always in the top five. I. never won. a swim, but I was always towards the.

beginning. >> No [ __ ] Somebody that had never been in. the ocean before. my swim buddy one of the top my swim. buddy was really good at guiding and I. literally just like followed his. >> right on man. >> you know um. >> and I was good at swim like I could fin. all day right because of my. two miles in the pool five days a week. >> right um. I. so nothing was I mean it was all I.

should say it's all hard right but. nothing stood out I I wasn't the most I. wasn't the strongest on push-ups and. pull-ups and sit-ups, but I was in the. top 10%. >> Yeah. >> And I was actually quite good at the O. course just like I have long arms, big. hands, and I had grip from the farm like. so cuz so much of the O course was like. kind of grip stuff, you know what I. mean? Um.

and I somehow like passed dive physics. and pool comp and weapons practical, all. those things like the first time, right? Like I just whatever. Uh the but the. hardest part about buds was for me was. hell week and. that same side pain that I had had in. boot camp revisited me, right? And it. was Wednesday or whatever the steel pier. night was. So that you know the the.

steel pier where. which I think is like the hardest part. of hell week and that's my my. recollection of it is the water. temperature determines how long you can. be in the water and then when you get. out of the like they have to take you. out of the water so that you don't get. past hypothermia or whatever and it's. based on the water temp and that's based. on average weight. So there's a lot of. fluctuation and you know we all know we.

don't all have the same body fat. So. they the BUDS instructors have a. timetable where they're allowed to keep. you in the water and it's based on the. water temp. But on Steel Pier they make. the whole thing miserable by when you. get out of the water you're laying on a. pier about this wide and it's metal and. then they hose you off with a garden. hose, right? So, it's colder than the. water. And like that's the night I had. another like side pain attack. So, I'm.

sitting there just wanting to curl up. into a ball. And but I'm laying on that. pier and just getting like, you know, kind of jackhammering. And again, like at the time, I wasn't. diagnosed with anything other than IBS. with const. They're like, "Oh, it's IBS. with constipation." So, now they give me. a laxative. Well, now I have [ __ ] Now I. have diarrhea. and essentially. and it's hell week, right? And you don't.

get to stop and go to the bathroom. >> Um I don't know. That's not a very. glamorous uh story, but I I um at the. time I'm not so I wasn't diagnos. like cuz I'm like. >> curled up in the in a ball and. >> I went to and I didn't even get to stop. Then I went to sick call the next. morning and they're like, "Well, what's. the matter with you?" I'm like, "I got. this terrible pain in my side.

I can't stop curling up in a ball and it. really, really hurts." And they're just. like, "Probably constipation, IBS. Give. them some laxative.". >> Oh [ __ ]. >> And you're just like, "Oh my god, >> hell week, bro." So, >> so you went through hell week with a. [ __ ] kidney stone that they were. giving you last year. >> And I have to stipulate because I know a. lot of people will see this. That was.

not diagnosed, right? I only know this. with 99% certainty because a few years. later and I had this pain revisited me. A few years later, I had the pain again. and I was finally properly diagnosed. with a kidney stone. >> Holy. >> Same exact pain. Right. Uh, and that happened when I was. going through Land Warfare at Sealed. Team 5, which I'll get into later. I'm. trying to stay chronological here. >> Um, so long story long, 99% sure that.

not only was, you know, hell week hell, like I it was full benefit for me like. having this. not only having what I'm 99% sure is a. kidney stone, but also having diarrhea. [ __ ]. >> Damn. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> So, that was D. I mean, that's my answer. to your question. What was the hardest. part about Buds? Probably. >> I mean, how the [ __ ] are you going.

through like around the world like all. this like the the longest mile with. laxatives? >> Is that That's Thursday morning. >> You're literally just [ __ ] yourself. >> They just give you that. They gave me. that Thursday morning and then I just I. it ran its course in about. >> [ __ ] man. >> 12 hours. And I'm just like, but like. thankfully you're wet all the time, so. you're always in the ocean to rinse off. [ __ ]. >> it still hurts. Here's some more. laxatives. >> Yeah, drink water.

>> Talk about your. >> [ __ ] man. >> All time misdiagnosis. >> [ __ ]. >> Oh man, that's [ __ ] up, dude. Wow. >> Yeah. say. so it was shitty time for you. >> for your for your audience the term full. benefit. >> that's just that just means like when it. sucks extra hard like I had full benefit. and then like to make like the funny.

thing is like so here I I graduate hell. week they secure hell week on Friday. afternoon and then right after that you. all go in they see you at the at the. medical thing before you walk back to. your barracks. And I go into medical. I'm like, well, my toes kind of hurt. Well, both my big toenails were ingrown. and they yanked out my big toenails. >> Oh my god. >> Here I have this leg. >> Kidney stone. >> Your toe hurts.

>> Kidney stone. Diarrhea. And it's finally. over. And like, oh, as a parting gift, we're just going to take out your big. toe. >> Oh [ __ ] dude. Damn. and you get like, you know, you get like a week off the. next week, walking week, but there's not. much of a break. Like after that, you're. back into it. I'm like, and you know, I. still don't have my big toenails like. >> [ __ ] So, >> wow. >> Full benefit. >> That's definitely full benefit. Holy. [ __ ].

>> And somehow I'm like, and I as I tell. people that I'm like, and even like in. my mind, I'm like, how would you not. quit? Like that is too but like I don't. know if I didn't know any better or I. was just dumb or I wanted it that much. I I don't you know if that happens to me. now I'm quitting. >> Like that sounds like a major lawsuit. nowadays. Holy [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> What the [ __ ]. >> Damn. Holy [ __ ].

>> So you made it through hell week. >> Made it through hell week. I graduated. butts class 225. Um, >> how did that feel? How did it feel to. tell your parents, your siblings, your. friends back home, you get you made it? >> You Well, as you know, like a I made it. through training. But then they're like, "Oh, so you're a SEAL." Well, then you. have that period of time because you. can't even like.

>> it it's kind of antilimatic, right? Because you're not a seal yet, but like you graduated buds. I was. beyond, you know, very proud, right, of my accomplishment. I'd done something that I had set out to. do, right? I worked hard and I achieved. it and I had gone through a little bit. of. you know had an obstacle right so. it I felt amazing right but then.

and and it's very short-lived because. then you check into a you know back then. we went to u we went to jump school in. Benane right and then you show up at a. team and then it's kind of like. >> pretty humbling right because now You're. a new guy and not only are you a new. guy, but you're a new guy out of team. without a trident, right? And. so, uh, checked into team five and yeah,

kind of you feel like you start all. over. >> Did you want to go to the West Coast? >> No. It's so funny like and I'm like. ended up loving it, right? I mean, I. loved. kind of pre- 911, every team had its own. kind of like personality, right? And. team five was kind of like known as surf. surf team five and like everyone thought. I would like I didn't, you know, I look.

like a surfer now. I've never surfed. I. don't surf, right? But um I chose like. literally. two, four, and eight when you do the. dream sheet. >> Yeah. >> Like I wanted to go to the east coast. >> Like I wanted to go to the east coast. and I wanted to go to dev groupoup. Like. that was. >> You already knew about dev groupoup. I. got in trouble in third phase because we. had BUDS instructors talking to us about. the different teams.

and I literally asked and so I'm not. even graduated yet. I'm like and I go. well what does it take to go to dev. groupoup. none of them had gone there. Well then. like two of them beat me cuz like you. haven't even made it through this yet. dumbass. You know what I mean? Right. So. it was always on my radar. Um, but I. wanted to go to the I wanted to go to. the east coast. Um, so I went to uh Seal. Team 5 and I had had the best time. So.

like it was just uh. so different than the East Coast and it. was so different than just growing up on. a farm in Iowa, you know. Um, but I met. um. I met some, you know, awesome awesome. people. Had some awesome teammates. there, some awesome experiences. Um, >> any good hazing stories? >> We, you know, the hazing was, and it.

didn't happen, these are not my stories. These are things I've witnessed. Like we. had guys that would get. um you know taped up naked to a spine. board, >> you know, with basically we would call. it rigers tape, but for people that. don't know, it's basically duct tape. Um. or just get covered in spray glue. Um, I. think one of the one of the worst ones I.

heard about was a friend of mine got. like Hey, he got like taped up to a. spine board, like head to toe with duct. tape to a plastic spine board. and they taped a funnel into his mouth. >> and poured vodka down it. And then they. put him in a closet and they taped an. alarm clock to his head. and it was just ringing the whole so he. couldn't pass out and then they left him.

there for like 8 hours to chew his way. out or whatever. >> [ __ ] They. >> and he had like pissed and [ __ ] himself. in the tape. >> Oh man, I've not heard the alarm clock. one. We did the happy hat. >> The happy hat was common. >> Oh [ __ ]. That's the the happy hats where they for. the audience it's where they tape a. handle on the top of your head. Wrap. your whole head in duct tape and then. they tape a handle on the top of your. head so anybody that wants to walk by.

can grab the grab the handle and. >> shake your head around and there's not a. damn thing you're going to do about it. >> So these were always like horror. stories. So, when you're a new guy, like. showing up at a team back then, you kind. of walked around like just waiting for. your number to get called, right? Um, >> and I've heard other kind of, you know, I've heard I've heard wild ones like. this, like someone they threw they put.

them in a cruise box and threw them in. the. San Diego Bay with a can of spare a can. of spare air. >> I haven't heard that one. And then they. had him on like uh you know he's like 30. 50 feet down and they had him on like 1. in nylon and pulled him back up. I'm. like. >> holy [ __ ]. >> You're pretty lucky that didn't go. badly. >> Yeah. No kidding. >> So I didn't witness that. That's a. secondhand one that I've heard. But. yeah, it was pretty epic back then. >> Wow. Wow.

>> Yeah. But the alarm clock one is pretty. sinister. Like not only to just get. taped to a spine board and then to get. your stomach filled with vodka, but then. to tape an alarm. >> That's a good one. >> Like dude, it's just awful. >> I kind of want to do that to somebody. now. It's. >> You got any new guys on staff? >> We do. >> We do. Wow. So, what how was it? Uh I. mean, what was your impression of Team. Five when you showed up?

So team five it was so I loved it like. and. so we're going I'm I am there for a. couple of weeks before I went through ST. back then it was sealed tactical. training and that's all the recent budge. the recent BUDS graduates that show up. at teams. one three and five there there was no. seven okay so teams.

All of us that were out of buds and jump. school and we're not yet SEALs and not. yet in a platoon, we went through a a a. class called ST. And. among that class like and that's three. months. It's like 90 days. And in that. class there's people that are going to. go to one and then three and then five, right? And at the time, like one was the.

hardcore, like no fun one. >> Yeah. >> Right. And. three was kind of in the middle. Um and. team five was like totally the more. relaxed like surf team five. Um, and then midway, like early on in ST, we. had a a new commanding officer at SEAL. Team 5, Tom Deetsz, and he had he had.

come out with a policy, and at the time, this was like. groundbreaking. He said, "No more mandatory PT. Your. adults work out on your own. We'll have one group PT a week on. Fridays. and we'll chase it. It was kind of a. monster mash PT. So for the audience. that's like a run, swim, ocourse, ruck.

kind of combo adventure. And. like back then every Friday at Seal Team. 5, you had a a long PT and it could it. could be running or swimming or a combo. and rucking or obstacle course or. combine all of those, but it was always. over at noon. You showered and changed and there were. two kegs on the grinder. >> Nice. >> And it was kegs on the grinder. grinder is like a asphalt like black top.

area and. maybe some hot dogs and some burgers and. two kegs and that was like the kickoff. to the weekend and team five it was like. it was very interesting because. there was also a volleyball net there so. people are like. >> you guys had a volleyball net. >> oh dude they're playing volleyball for. for like training or everyone had like. like skateboards. >> So, they're moving around the weapons.

containers in like longboard. skateboards. >> It definitely was this kind of surf like. team. And we finished ST, showed up at team five and. I could just train how I wanted to and. then every Friday we had to do a workout. together. It was awesome, right? versus. like having this reg and regimented like. run day, swim day, gym day or whatever.

They kind of let you do what you wanted. >> Mhm. >> Which was pretty cool. >> Yeah. >> Um and I think, you know, eventually. they all got more like that, right? But. uh my impression of Team Five was like I. didn't want to go there and I ended up. being glad I did. >> Right on. Yeah. Right on. When how long. was it before you platoned up? >> So finished. ST. and I was supposed to go into.

a platoon a few months after that. Sorry, I'll rewind. I finished ST then I. finished my total of six months. probation. >> Oh, okay. took the trident board, earned. my trident. Every team had their own trident board. That one team five for as lax as it as. it was as a as a culture, we had a very.

hard trident board. So it was like an 8. or 10 hour day and you went from diving. to Marops to land war and you had to do. all these different things and have. written tests and then like a. performance test and like it was a long. day. >> All in one day. >> Yeah. It was like almost 10 hours. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> And and you had like you were in your. camies. They made you put on face paint.

and you were carrying a ruck between. stations and taking apart weapons, writing out a dive chart, right? Uh. putting on a static line rig and getting. inspected. Um fixing a Zodiac, like all. these things you had, you had like a 90. minutes or whatever per session. So it. was like both a a practical and written. thing. >> Earn my trident finally. And now I'm. like now I was like a SEAL. Uh, and I.

was supposed to platoon up. I forget the. time, but it was going to be in like. Echo or Foxtrot platoon, but then Charlie and Delta. platoon did a they did a nighttime. combat equipment static line and like. three people got hurt. and two of them were going to be out of. the platoon. So they grabbed two new.

guys. and I got to be one of them. So I. platooned up early. >> Oh, right on. >> So yeah, I forget the exact time, you. know, that's so long ago. But so I end. up getting into a platoon at team five. and then. they had already done more than half. their work up though. So now, and they had done like Marops. and some of the suck like um.

back then like um special. reconnaissance, some of the sucky blocks of training. So. now I'm a new guy in a platoon that's. already done half the hard stuff. Well, they didn't all really love that. You. know what I mean? Um, but I had an awesome time in that in. that platoon. I think. we had like.

right into they had finished Marups, so. we went right into uh Combat Swimmer, right? And that's like whatever three. weeks back then. And then. finished that and pretty soon we were. doing CQB and a Shaw's trip. So it was. great. Right. >> Right on. >> Um, >> where are you guys heading to? >> We end up going to Guam. >> Guam? >> Yep. Pre 911 Guam deployment. And.

so we're there. We deployed like mid to late August 01. >> Oh [ __ ] So right before Huh. >> Yeah. Right before 911. and. my so my birthday is September 7th and I. call my mom on my birthday from Guam. and she's like well what do you want for. your birthday and I'm like you know I'm.

some dumb whatever. 21 or 22 22. and I'm just like mom I just want a war. to fight. [ __ ] right and you know dumb um the the. stuff that uh dumb young warriors want. So. anyway, we started in Guam and then we. got sent to the Middle East. >> You went to the Middle East from there. So what what was uh.

>> what was September 11th like for you? Well, I will, you know, obviously I like it's so. memorable just because. so I remember not long before that. having a big birthday party out in town, you know? I mean, I'm turning 22 on. deployment, right? I think it was that. And.

then I don't know like my. so my wife was going to college classes. and she would wake up early in the. morning at the time. Sorry, girlfriend. And. I call her and she. just says, "I think I think someone. bombed the World Trade Center.".

Or," and then she's like, "No, maybe a. plane hit it." And I go, "What?". like and I I remember this. like we didn't have laptops in our rooms. and stuff like that. There was in this. we stayed in a not even a barracks in. Guam. It was a kind of a a BAH kind of. like hotel. >> Mh. >> Right. So there's a it's almost like a. college dorm. There's a hallway.

Everyone got their own little dorm room. Um, we each had our own room and that's. where we were staging because we. originally went to Guam in August and we. were supposed to travel to like go and. do joint training with like Australia. and then go to the Philippines and maybe. Thailand and Malay whatever all the. paycom stuff. >> Um, but you have these rooms in Guam or they.

did and we didn't even have a TV. I. didn't have a TV in my room, but at the. end of the hallway, they had one of. those old like. three foot thick big screens. Remember. those? >> And. I just remember her saying something. about the World Trade Center, you should. get in front of a TV. And I like just. kind of like she doesn't know what she's. talking about. And I walk to the end of. the end of the hallway and there's. already people around the TV and I'm.

just like. like I get there in time to watch the. second plane hit it, you know, and it's. like. and from that moment like. pagers started to go off. No one knew right away who did it. And. but that night, you know, we were. getting different intel briefs. and then pretty soon we're getting more. and more briefs and.

you know, we're instead of worrying. about like where are we going to go out. tonight, it was hey, we need to we. brought all these guns with us from. Coronado. not only do we need to make sure they're. sighted in, but like let's get a few. more yard lines or whatever. It got very. serious like that that that switch from, you know, pre 911 and just kind of.

Seal Platoon was a a rock band. It was like, hey, we you know, we had. all this fun. We're ready to do this. stuff. But mostly it was like a deployed. a party, you know what I mean? Uh, but it got real serious. So, >> when did you guys figure when did you. guys hear you're going to the Middle. East? >> So, we originally. we thought we were going to go to. Afghanistan.

and obviously we didn't. Um, we ended up. and we're constantly getting these. briefs, but it probably was, I think it ended up being like 3 weeks. later that we got shipped to the middle. flew to the Middle East and. we ended up we ended up replacing a team. three platoon that was doing underways. or VBSS. in Kuwait and they got to go to.

Afghanistan. Gotcha. Uh, but along the. way, I want to say we stopped in like Oman or. something like to refuel. I forget. exactly where, but there were there was. like dev group guys there and Delta guys. there getting all ramped up for. Afghanistan. And we were just like, whoa. Uh, and we thought that's like, oh, we're in the right spot. We're going to. Afghanistan. And then we land in Kuwait.

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end up doing it in Kuwait right post 9. like right when 911 happens. >> Yeah. But in hindsight, I think I got to do, you know, 20 plus real world. non-compliant shipboardings. Um, a few of which I was the lead. climber on. And. it was kind of like. obviously in post 911 that doesn't seem.

like that big a deal, but I'm like, hey, that was, you know, was better than what. they were doing before, right? And we. were. ostensively. a there was the, you know, the Iranian. oil embargo, the Iraqi oil embargo, but. then there was also this um, you know, this idea that al-Qaeda. terrorists were going to be like. funneling out on these ships. >> and that's how they, you know, that's. how they motivated us to do it. But, you.

know, it the gravity was still real and. people were still drowning doing that. So, it was as real as it gets. Not a lot. of bullets flying, but you know, still. pretty uh could be scary. You know, underway shipboarding is like dicey, especially at night, >> especially in, you know, in these waters. and with stuff like that. >> Do you want to describe the first one? >> Huh? >> Do you want to describe the first one or. any one that's of significance? So.

there's two that are very memorable and. I was like so I was a new guy. I was a. jack of all trades. One night I'm a lead. climber. One night I'm a breacher. Go figure. And there was one um. and it is pitch black. We have nods on. and we have like back then we're still. running MP5s, you know. And. so the poleman had put the pole up and. then the ladder man was unrolling the.

ladder, you know, on the bottle. And the original lead climber went to. climb and his uh handgun, the handle on. his sig got stuck in the rung and he was. climbing against it and he didn't like. realized. And the it was partially the. fault of the ladder man cuz it was all. unspooled. And he was sitting there and like just. couldn't go right. And then after like. maybe a minute or less he like lets go.

and he tapped me because I was the. second lead climber. He's like, "Bro, you're up. Go." And I'm just like, and now I'm going to be the lead climber. up this underway ship that's like. steaming into Iranian waters. And it's a. it's a 20 foot 20 plus foot climb on a. caving ladder that doesn't have a runner. on top. I'm the one that's going to. climb it and set the runner. So I shimmy. up that thing like like it's like.

so quickly. And and by the way, it's. it's like oddly like climbing the uh a. small ladder on the side of a grain bin. or a grain silo in Iowa. And so I shimmy. up this thing And I get to the top, you. know, and the hook, the grappling hook. is just, it's not on anything bomber. It's just on a lip. And I just climbed. this thing on a hook that's just.

weighted on a lip. You know what I mean? >> Yep. >> And I get up there. I clear the thing with my pistol. I look at that. I'm like, "Oh crap, I. got to get off this ladder." Right? And. there wasn't anything there immediately. to like hook it to safer. So I pop up. over the over the thing over the. lifeline and then the first thing I do. is you know I'm everything is clear. around me and I'm up there alone.

and I take that I take that grappling. hook, I hook it on something more solid. and then I take my safety runner out and. I run that around something more solid. So now it's hooked on something solid. and it's on a and the runner is on. something solid. And then back then we. were using like that little uh like the. Kim light, right? That with the tape on. it. >> And I put the Kim light over like, okay,

the ladder is now on something more. bomber. Sorry, more solid. And then. there's a runner on it. And then the. rest of the team came up. Um, I'm like. that was, you know, a lead climb on a a. non-compliant shipboarding on my first, you know, my first deployment. So, >> it was. >> it was memorable. And then there were. there was another night where. we'.

this shipboarding was like a stepover. freeboard. So, that ship had been so. laden that you didn't have to climb. the. rib could pull up next to it and you. could step over onto it. >> Oh wow. >> It was that full of oil. And it was. steaming. It knew we couldn't go into. Iranian waters. So as soon as they saw. us, they were like steaming into Iranian. waters. And And that night I was I was carrying. remember the torch?

>> Yeah. >> The like oxygen torch or whatever it. was. And I have a torch on my back and I. step over the So I step off the rib over. over onto this tanker, straddle over the lifeline, right? And. we're like we're standing there's like. water ankle deep. It's like that laden, right? And I'm standing there and they.

had put they had put like heavy steel up. going into the superructure. Uh, and some of it had angle iron behind. it. And so we have to try to, you know, you have to either take down like. whatever the engine room or the bridge, right, to stop the ship. >> Uhhuh. Uh, and they had protected the. bridge so well with the extra steel and. the angle iron. And I bust out that like. that torch, you know, had that rod and I.

start it and I used an the entire tank. on half of the diamond cut because the. the steel was so thick and it was. reinforced behind it. >> So, I didn't run out of rods. I didn't. run out of battery. We ran out of oxygen. just trying to get like, you know, obviously I'm a new guy. I'm probably. not as proficient as I should be on. this. I I tried. Uh but at some point.

like it didn't matter. I get halfway a. half diamond cut and we get a call like, "Hey, you guys are almost in Iranian. waters. You get off in the next five. minutes or you have to jump right off a. boat that's moving with huge screws and. all that." Right? So the ribs are. pulling back up to pick us up and. and like all of a sudden like we're. standing in more water. It's almost like. the ship we were on like was is either.

taking on water or whatever. But like we. started and it was like this deep and. now all of a sudden just on the deck, right? It's like kneede water. And. there's like a big battery on this uh. torch that you use to start it. And I am. sitting there as when I when I grab the. lifeline to straddle it and go back onto. the rib, I'm just starting to get I'm. I'm getting some voltage. and I'm like and like pretty soon I'm.

like halfway stuck there. I'm like, I. can't like and my buddy's like, I think. it's the battery. He's trying to unhook. me and like I'm standing in water. I got. this big battery on. I grab the metal. lifeline and it's like, oh, I think I'm. just catching a little voltage here, right? Um and then like I that very same. night. um that very same night. we had to get off this ship that was.

like going into Iranian waters. I had. half cut this diamond and. I, you know, was getting like not. electrocuted. That would be an. exaggeration, but I'm feeling something. Like I grew up on a hog farm and we used. to have fights with cattle prods. It. felt like that like where you're getting. hit by a cattle prod. And uh like to top it all off, a. teammate of mine as we ended up so we.

back then we had ribs and Mark Fives. You probably remember Mark Fives. >> and we would do longer transits in the. Mark Fives and then when it was time to. do the climb, get on the RIB. So, the RIB picks us up off this boat, this ship, and then we're going to. transit back onto the Mark Five. And like, I don't know how, but for like. even with all these climbs and stuff, no. one ever fell overboard, right? Um, one.

time we had a a guy fall upside down on. the ladder and have to get pulled up. from the ladder, which is scary. But no. one really fell overboard until. one night we like the night of that when. I was getting. shocked by this torch. We're stepping. from the ribs back onto the Mark Fives. and teammate of mine who's the radioman,

so he's got a big radio and it's pitch. black and the boats are they're kind of. moving. He steps, slips, and hits the. drink in the northern Arabian Gulf. Turns on his strobe and he's got this. big radio on and we're it's like, man, overboard, right? Like, and we could, you know, we had nods. you could see his. strobe and everything, but uh he's uh. and that's that's Jack Carr, the the guy.

the author, right, who I'm still. >> still close with. Uh but. >> he's written those books and one of them. is the Amazon show Terminal List. So, >> right, man. >> It's memorable to me for that. >> I bet. I'll bet. Wow. So, then you you guys come home. Yeah, we finished that deployment and um. come home. and I was I had met my now wife Leah.

right before not long before that. deployment and then so the first year of. us dating I had I did a six-month. deployment so really only six months. dating right and back then it's like. you know now You can FaceTime from. deployment like but back then it's like. calling cards. >> Yeah. >> And you know these phone banks and a. little bit tougher. >> dial up emails and that sort of thing.

So, I come home from that deployment and. my post- deployment leave, I get like. three days off and my post- deployment. leave is sniper school, which is not in. any way, stretch any way, shape or form. that relaxing, right? And at the time, like there was an east coast and a west. coast sniper school. It wasn't all. centralized under the whatever it is. now, the center. And I so I go through.

my I show up at sniper school instead of. getting a you know a nice long post-. deployment vacation. Um, and. I I forget all the details, but at the. time they they said one NSW sniper. school, one- which starts with like 30. people, expends more ammunition than the Marine. Corps sniper school does in a year.

>> Wow. >> The amount of And that's just the am and. I'm not saying they're better or. whatever. I'm just saying we had that. much more money to spend on ammo. So you. are spending and sniper has evolved so. much with reticles and ballistic. coefficients and all that but like back. then. hours and hours and hours were spent on. yard lines, right? So. there was a marksmanship portion which. was a couple of weeks at Camp Pendleton.

and you had to qualify, you know, expert. with irons before you could move on, right? And then it was then we got. shipped to not shipped but we went up to. Kolinga Northern California. and that's where we spent most of the. most of the marksmanship part of sniper. skill school was spent in Kolinga and we. would um. basically you're living in a tent there.

There wasn't even birthing. It's something like 6 weeks. and. something like that. And there's a. couple of weeks where you, you know, it's M14 and then you move to your. like your 308 and then your 300 and then. at the end you do the 50 cal, right? Like it's couple of weeks with each one. I think 50 cal is just one week or. whatever it is. Like I forget exactly,

but it's it's five or six weeks and. you're in a tent and then all day long. you're just you're either prone on yard. lines or you're in the behind the burm. We call it the butts, right? Those. target butts going up and down and. you're marking targets, right? >> And these are like long hot days. Well, back to kind of like full benefit.

I have another side pain. >> Oh [ __ ] In. sniper school and I end up going. I think it's Lenor, you know where we did, do you remember. Haps, high altitude where they put you. in a chamber before you can go to. parachute stuff? So, they had a chamber there where we. did HAPS, but then I had to go there back because, you know, because I had this side pain. and they're like, "Well, we don't know.

what it is, but we can tell you're in a. lot of pain." They gave me Vicodin, right? So, I spent I spent the night in. this. >> better than laxatives. >> Way better. It's way better. And so, I spend the. again at this I should be clear. I'm not. at this point diagnosed with a kidney. stone. I know in my heart it was because. I got that same pain later that did get. diagnosed and I end up losing a kidney, right? So, I know what it's like.

So, I spend the night in this hospital. I think it's Lenor. Might I might not be. pronouncing that right, but I'm all. hopped up on Vicodin because it's. painful. They drive me back to the my tent where. sniper school is the next morning and. the next day we have our UKD test, unknown distance test. And on a UKD test.

you're kind of you're like here and then. they have like four targets at this yard. line and maybe four targets here and. four targets here, whatever, right? Like. unknown. It's not like an even yard line. It's. not like a 100 or 200, but they're and. they're not on the yard lines. You have. to guess how far they are. You have to. mill them. um the height with your mill dot. >> and then dial and then you get four you.

get one shot per target. And there's. either five targets per per spot or. four. But there's a total of. 100 points on the test. and you either you have to like hit the. thing. It's like a miss or a hit, right? Um. and I am still on like high from. Vicodin. And I asked the So I asked the.

instructor, I'm like, "Man, I just spent the night. in the hospital. Do you think I could. retake this test some other time?" And. like back then. like they tr they treated sniper school. as they wanted attrition. Like it was a. badge of honor if like more than half of. our well I would say half of my sniper. school did not make it and they didn't. like they didn't feel like it was their. job to make more snipers. They felt it.

was their job to protect. >> like how hard sniper school was, right? >> And so he tells me he says take the test. or go home. You can always come back. next year. I mean, I'm a SEAL. I've just done a. deployment. I am here on post. deployment. This is my post- deployment. leave. You should want to make more. snipers, right? We the the the teams. need them, right?

So, I'm like, I I guess what what do I. have to lose? I'm going to take the. test. And. the only problem is So, I'm sitting. there. I'm high. I'm confused by my reticle or. I'm sorry, by my my uh elevation turret. So, they did let my spotter help me dial. I had to squeeze the trigger, but I was. so relaxed that I got the top score.

>> Now, he was dialing my scope. >> He was. So, I'm sitting there, Sean, like. You know what I mean? Like. >> wake up 30 minutes later and. >> I would just dude I was like, man, my. trigger squeeze is so smooth. Like. >> cuz I was still on this like I mean. again someone might get in trouble if. you're like taking a sniper test on. Vicodin nowadays. >> But.

>> uh so again uh passed that. I finished. finished sniper school and not not I. finished the uh marksmanship part of it. and then we had to go do the stalking. That's where more people fail out is. stalking. And um I made it through. stalking, but I got. like all of a sudden I started losing a. lot of weight. and. like I got down to like below 170 and.

I'm like. >> and there was a couple of us that were. like getting really really sick. Well, unbeknownst to us, like a few of. us got Valley Fever, which is. Mike Ritland got it. He was not in my. sniper school, but he got he got. medically retired from it. >> Oh [ __ ]. >> He lost a lung from this or portion of a. lung. And. >> I forgot about that.

>> So that is the reason that the SEAL. teams no longer go to Kolinga. Apparently, there is like. a. fungus in the dust that's like. prehistoric or whatever. And if you're. like in that dust all day and the wind's. blowing and you breathe it, the spores. can like form in your lungs. >> Holy [ __ ] And I was one of like I was.

fortunate enough to be one of the people. who got it, but I never. I got it and beat it and never lost any. lung function, >> right? So I actually have like they say. you have it forever, but you've beat it. or whatever. Like you you have the. antibbody or whatever it is. Someone. would is probably watching this now and. correcting me on that, but I got Valley. Fever. Not to the point where I lost. lung function, but I got really really.

sick, lost a ton of weight, my face. started to like just my eyes sunk in. Um, but one person from my sniper school. like like he got medically retired from. it. >> [ __ ] And then Mike. >> Yeah. >> You know, ended up getting getting it. really bad. He lost part of a lung. So, like kind of back to the full benefit. theme like finished. [ __ ]. >> finished sniper school with a kidney. stone and valley fever. >> It's been a rough go for you.

>> Been a rough go. Yeah. >> Um but no, it was good. I I actually. finished sniper school and at that point. my my second platoon right had already. started. I joined them. >> How did you meet your wife in Guam? >> I met her before deployment. Are you. guys still together? >> We are still together. >> Wow. >> Anomaly. >> We we met in San Diego. um.

before my first deployment. >> Okay. um. her being from Omaha and me being from. Iowa, like we we connected like closely. right away just because of the kind of. shared Midwestern background and. and like she's I mean my wife's the. greatest. She we dated through the first. deployment. We got married right before. the second.

and then all the other ones that you. know at dev group that she went through. and the stuff she's gone through and we. are you know 24 years married 14 14 16. 18 and 20-year-old kid. >> Damn. Congratulations, man. >> Um. >> how many years married? 24. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I I mean, people say I don't look. old enough to be married that long and. have a 20-year-old kid, but I'm like, my. MRI looks old, right? And all the.

all the Well, actually, my med record's. pretty thick. Yeah. Right. Yeah. >> So, long story short, um, like I can't, you know, anyone who tries. to give me credit, I always like don't. give me much credit. I had so much fun, but like whatever Leah put up is 10 time. put up with is much harder. So, how did. you guys meet? >> So, we meet at a bar in downtown San. Diego and we had just finished So, I'm. in my first platoon and we had just.

finished um. we finished a month the month of January. in Kodiak, Alaska, which is as cold as it sounds. >> Good times. >> Um doing over the beach with dry suits. and. land nav in the snow right now. I I. should say. like remember how I said the farm made. things a little easier.

Like that Christmas break, I went to. Iowa for Christmas and. I was there for like a week around. Christmas and New Year's. and it got to like 60 maybe 65 below. with the windchill like the it at one. point I remember it getting to 20 below. and it was like man I was didn't even. need gloves now right because it had. been so cold and I'm spending spending.

my entire Christmas leave helping my dad. keep the hogs alive outside. So, you're. outside for a little bit. You're melting. the waters. They had these outdoor. waters. You're feeding them or you're. running straw and hay to their sheds, right? Just to try to keep these poor. pigs alive. And like when it gets to. like 50 below, like your the amount of. time you can spend outside is limited. So, you'd go out for a little bit and. come in, warm up. I'm doing this for.

like a week and then we go to uh I get. back to San Diego. I'm like. it's so nice. And now we fly to we fly. to Anchor fly sorry we fly to uh Kodiak. and we're going to spend the entire. month of January on Kodiak Island. and we get up there and it's like 20. degrees. I'm like it's warm after Iowa, right? It was warm. So, back to Leah. I. spend a month training on Kodiak Island.

We get back and. I had just spent a month with these. guys. Like, if we weren't out in the. field, we were at a little bar in. Kodiak, right? Or we were in the. barracks. And we're all going out that night to. Maloney's downtown. I'm like, I don't want to go out. I just. spent a month with you guys. I wanna I. want to stay in my apartment and relax,

right? And it was ma, you know, I'm a. new guy, so it's mandatory, right? It. wasn't like I could say no, right? I. just didn't want to. I'm like, shoot. So, I go out and that's the night I meet. my wife, right? and she was supposed to. go watch her dad play in the Pebble. Beach ProAm up in uh whatever by Pebble. Beach at Pebble Beach and she didn't. want to do that. So, she wasn't supposed. to be there either. And we meet at a bar.

in downtown San Diego and she walks up. to me and she's like, "Do you have a girlfriend?" Like I'm. like sitting there at I'm like I'm. sitting at a bar. I have like a Coors. Light and a Jagger like cuz back then it. was like you always get like a light. beer and a Jagger shot and I'm getting. ready to take my shot of Jagger and you. know chase it with a Coors Light and. she's like this girl just elbows me and.

is like do you have a girlfriend? I'm. like. no like and so we talk for a while and. uh. oddly uh you know Matt is there. He was. there the night I I met her. Um, we. talked for a while and she finds out I'm. in the Navy. She didn't even know what a. seal was, which I thought was a bonus. And um, so she kind of like, well, I don't. really like I don't want to marry.

someone who's in the military. Bye. Like, she goes away. Well, she comes. back later and we sit there talking for. another half hour and then she looks at. me and she's like, I'm going to marry. you. And I'm just like, dang. Like, wow, that's a little forward, right? Well, like we ended up. we date for whatever. we date for like less than a year and a. half and then we get married before my. second deployment.

Um, and she. and that was at Team Five and then she. went through all the stuff at Dove Group. and then uh yeah, so she's been. she's been through the ringer. Been my. rock, >> man. So, what's the secret to a. successful marriage, >> man? I mean, it definitely takes two. Um, you know, I think.

like we've been. been very, you know, fortunate. I I. think there's obviously you have to love. each other. You have and there's, you. know, selflessness that goes into it. Um, and honestly, our faith has helped us a lot. you know, we we didn't start like when we were. early married and in San Diego certainly. we didn't go to church all the time, but. we got like we got into church big time.

in Virginia Beach. Um especially as you. know things started to get scarier and. then um we've always gone to church. together since. That's a big part of it. And I would I would also say like. um. I think people think of marriage as a. it's a 5050. Like if there's this much to do, I'm.

going to, you know, it's a 5050 split. Like we're going to, you know, I'm going. to clean half the kitchen, you're going. to clean half the kitchen, right? Like a. zero sum game. But I've heard this I've. heard it said this way and I wish I. could remember who said it uh so I could. attribute it properly. But it that's the. problem. It's not 50/50. It's 100 100. Like you both give all of yourself,

right? Um and I think that's good. advice. >> It's a great way to put it. >> So and it, you know, doesn't doesn't hurt to pick. the right wife the first time. So, I. mean, obviously there's, you know, there's some luck, there's some. whatever, right? Uh, I just feel very. blessed. So, >> that's cool, man. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> She's. Yeah, we beat the odds for sure. I'll. say.

>> we look at I look at photos now from we. used to have parties in Virginia Beach. like we would have like a Thanksgiving. party or just a summer pool party with. like teammates and like we could have a. Thanksgiving party there because a lot. of people didn't have family there, right? So you'd have a friendsgiving. kind of thing. Uh, and I look at my wife was good about. let's get a photo. Let's get a photo. And.

like we would take a there might be like. four to six couples in a photo and like. now I mean I look back on them and. there's some of those photos where. either all the husbands are dead or. they're divorced. You know what I mean? Yeah. So anyway, I feel very blessed, very fortunate. And um. we got, let's see, we got engaged, we got engaged in October of.

02. And we thought. we thought that uh. we thought we'd get married next summer, like so summer of 03, but then I found. out about the uh that we were going to. deploy early because of the Iraq. invasion. and we were going to be deploying in. like January.

So, we're engaged in October. I'm going. to be deploying in in January. and I. just we just decided to get married. before I deployed, >> right? >> So, we had like a six week engagement. >> and we didn't have. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> So, some people thought she was pregnant. cuz it was like that seems a little. rushed. Um but I was like, "Babe, don't. you want to be able to shop at the, you. know, the the PX. or don't you want that insurance?".

Right? And it just made sense. So we. just. we got married in Vale on Pearl Harbor. Day. I was in my Navy uniform as part of. >> awesome. >> Beautiful. >> So and and. to to. I guess take a quick rewind. Let me get. a sip of water a second. Right before that, I lost my kidney. >> Right before. >> Oh [ __ ] Okay. >> Right. >> Right after sniper school. It was right after sniper school and.

during. excuse me um land warfare we went to. Fort Chaffy. and we had you know at team five the. first platoon we went to Nand for land. warfare like everyone does. for some reason we went to Fort Chaffy. for land warfare in my second platoon.

and. we were. just starting our week of IADS. Um, and that's for your audience like these. moving and shooting drills. And like the first night like I got the. pain, it came and it it had a tendency. of just going away within one or two. days. But this time it was like I had. this pain for.

four days straight. Like it wasn't that. whatever stone was in there was not. passing. And. I was like doing like I ads during the. day and sometimes at night and I'm just. curled up in a ball and getting super. dehydrated and you know I'm like I'm. just kind of sucking it up because I'm. usually like these episodes would go. away within a day maybe day and a half. but this time it's like three days then.

four days. It's not it's not stopping. And. um and I'm telling my OIC and the corman. and finally like my OIC guy named Clint. Bruce. He's like, "Man, you can't keep. doing this." And his dad is a uh or. sorry, his guess it would be his. stepfather was. um a urologist in town. And he takes me to see a urologist in.

town, his stepfather. I get an X-ray. with contrast that's different, right? Like the first time I had gotten this. contrast and he happens to be a. urologist. He's like, you're there's. scar tissue in your urer and you have a. giant kidney stone stuck in your urer. That's the t again the tube between the. kidney and the bladder. And. so they give me this like I guess it's a.

soundwave surgery. >> M. >> you know and they. >> they blast it. >> Yeah. They put you under they blast you. with these sound waves and they also put. a a stint in there which like a tube. >> between the And I was out I was out. during that but like I woke up and I had. I was kind of black and blue here. like. it does feel like you're getting like. punched a bit like just from the sound. waves. And I had, you know, gotten rid.

of the pieces of the stone and I had a. tube between my bladder and and here and. they're like, "Well, maybe you shouldn't. finish land warfare. Let's go back to. Balboa." So, I flew back to Balboa. and under the premise that they were. going to like fix my urer, like get rid. of the scar tissue. And then they went in to go do that.

um. like a week or whatever later. And then. when they got in there, they just looked. at my my kidney at that point was just a. water balloon like it was not working. So, like it was like an 8-hour surgery. because it was so full. They didn't want. it to break cuz it's, you know, it would. go septic sepsis. Um, and normally you can take a kidney. out like if they someone donates or what.

it's like a small whatever. And I have a. scar from like almost from like 12:00 to. 9:00. Wow. cuz it was this and the. doctor's like, "Yeah, we almost had to. take a rib out like cuz it was just this. distended. this distended like water balloon, right?" So. I wake up, you know, eight hours later, my poor fiance at the time had just.

spent eight hours in Baloa thinking I. was going to have a 90minute surgery. Damn. >> And she's like engaged to me. And. I just remember like all of a sudden. I wake up and. they explain to me what happened. Like, well, you lost a kidney. And. I'm like, well, what does that mean? Basically, it means you're out of the. military. like you everything's.

waveable, but like in the in soft like. that's kind of one they don't like to. wave, right? And I. the corman. uh one of the corman from like the med. department at team five like did some. research, shows up at the hospital and. gives me a waiver. They find a waiver I. can sign to stay in the military. And I. am like high on morphine,

but I don't even read this thing. He's. like, "If you sign this, you can stay in. the military. If you don't, you're going. to get like medically discharged.". And I had done one deployment. and I had done all this work and. finished basically finished my second. workup and I wanted to deploy again. I. didn't want to get out, right? I didn't. care that I would get a medical retire. I wanted to wanted to deploy, right? So, I signed my waiver and.

never had one of those attacks again, right? Because that kidney was gone, that urer was gone. And uh. I was engaged when the surgery happened. I healed. We had our wedding in December. And then uh I think I deployed at like a. a couple weeks later either in the. middle of January or the end of January.

>> [ __ ]. >> For nine and a half months. >> [ __ ] Where did you deploy to? >> So for that one we went to Okinawa which. I was so upset like I wanted to go to. Iraq. >> or Afghanistan. Um, we ended up going like we ended up going. to Oki and we were going to so we were. going to split like we were going to. start there and then swap someone out in. Iraq because of the optempo and then.

something to do with, you know, airfare. and not airfare but like airflow getting. people in and out and like nah just. stay. But on that deployment, I had a. lot of I mean, we had a it was a great. group of guys and um. we had a lot of fun. Um. got to finally, you know, I went to I I. would get my share of Iraq and. Afghanistan later. >> Uhhuh. >> So, it was nice to I went to.

like we went to Thailand, the. Philippines, and Australia and got to. do, you know, some of that stuff. Were. you were you honest questioner? Were you. actually able to enjoy that knowing what. was going on in Afghanistan and Iraq? >> Not as much as I otherwise would have. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I had that FOMO, >> right? And I I didn't know that I would. get my fill of that later. >> Right. >> I was just like this. >> I'm not here for that. I'm here for.

that. >> Um so no. No. To answer your question, no. >> Yeah. But I mean, in hindsight, you know, Australia was. awesome. I I I don't need to go back to. Thailand, but I would go to Australia, right? Um, it it was it was it was great, and I had. good time with the guys. Um, and I stayed late on that deployment. The reason I got home late was. the the platoon that was relieving us.

was down a sniper. and one of us needed to stay and I. volunteered to stay. So I ended up doing about a month extra. with. um I think it was hotel platoon. and. you know I got I became close with like. Bill Moulder and Scotty Wartz and J Mo. and some other guys. sound. Um, anyway,

wasn't uh wasn't quite as cool as I was. hoping, but you know, that would happen. for a reason. >> And so, what happened? You come back and. screen for development group. So. I. I had missed screening for the what. would have been 04 because I I could.

have g I would have had time to go to 04. but screening was when that screening. was during my surgery. >> Gotcha. >> It was like a week after my surgery and. I was cut from here to here. I couldn't do anything, let alone the. sit-ups. You know, my abs are still. growing back together. So, yes, I ended. up coming home from my second. second platoon. I did the, you know, the.

screening. Um, there wasn't going to be. enough time to do another full workup. and deployment. So, I went to Trade. >> Gotcha. and. >> traded as the training cell for naval. special warfare for those listening. >> And it was awesome. Like it really was. cool. Like I had. so I actually did not yet have my orders. but I they gave me a.

they let me go to trade at assaults. which was great. like I'm getting to. help teach CQB. and you know getting to go on trips. where we are meeting with the the east. coast trade and some dev group guys to. deconlict the how how CQB is being. taught. and then um. I got like in a year and a half I went. to Shaw like seven times [ __ ] so that.

didn't hurt for when I did Yoda. >> I'll bet. >> you know. >> I'll bet. >> selection. So, um I. would have I mean I would have loved to. have gone sooner, but like I had a great. time. I had a great time going to going. to trade it. >> and doing like the Shaw's trips and then. a mount trip to Fort Knox and then we. were doing back then even go plats gas. and oil platforms.

um you know oil rigs taking those down. We were teaching, we would teach the. West Coast platoon how to take down an. oil rig. And I had spent weeks living in. the Gulf of Thailand like taking down. oil rigs on my previous deployment. And. then we were teaching um. VBSS still, right? Or like underway. shipboarding and like I was one of the. two people in the whole trade that had. ever climbed a ship on a real. shipboarding. >> Right on. >> So it was cool, right? I enjoyed it. Um,

no, no regrets about that. It was fun, right? >> And the travel, you know, and. >> like my wife and I like it was kind of. good for me to go to like get like some. technically some shore duty before going. to dev group um and getting on all you. know getting on that uptempo. Um, and it. was hard like our first year of marriage. like I was deployed nine and a half.

months. I set a. >> That's crazy. >> I set a pretty low bar. That's the. secret. That's the secret. Set a low bar. the first year. >> Right on. On that note, let's take a. break and when we come back, we'll pick. up with Development Group. >> I need you to stop what you're doing for. a second and really listen. If someone. relies on your income and you don't have. life insurance yet, this needs to move. to the top of your list. I've had to. think about that myself. Making sure my.

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will never be sold again. Plus, exclusive offers from our partners you. won't find anywhere else. So, subscribe. to the Vigilance Elite newsletter right. now. All right, Eric, we're back from the. break. We're going to get into. development group now. How many. deployments do you have with them? >> Um,

lost count. >> No, it wasn't like that many. I'm just. trying to make sure I'm counting them. correctly. Four. >> Right on. >> Um, yeah. And I had so two at team five, one. of which was like nine and a half. months. Um. and I went through my training. Um I. finished you know after after trade.

went to the east coast went to dev group. um. went to gold squadron. They had just. renamed it from gold team to squadron. >> Oh, that was an official thing. I didn't. realize that. >> Used to be teams. Then they became. official Navy commands and they renamed. them squadrons. >> Right on. >> Um, and that's when that happened when I. got there. And which is the funny. So.

now I have a I am by no means a. plank owner, but I have a big. big huge um. certificate and plaque framed plaque. with the the coins as a gold squadron. plank owner. >> Oh, right. >> Because I was I was there when they. became went from teams to squadrons. >> That's cool. >> So, >> that's cool. Um, obviously it, you know,

it was long, it was around well before. me and will be around long after, but. uh, yeah, and I, um, let's see, moved out there technically. What were some of the first first things. you noticed that were different between. Dev Group and Seal Team 5? You know, there was a.

Well, for starters, I mean, you're. starting all over again, right? You you. show up at a team like you show up at. Seal Team 5. I showed up at Seal Team. Five. You're a brand new guy. >> Mhm. >> And. now. I've done two platoon, you know, I'm a. department head, right? and now I'm. gonna leave all that to go start all. over. >> You know what I mean? >> So, there's a lot of, you know, there's.

a lot of similarities. There was, but. there was definitely something very. different about it. Um, >> I mean, [ __ ] man. I've been there. I'm. just walking in the damn compound. It's. like, holy [ __ ]. >> You got your own [ __ ] shooting range. You got a gym that takes you up to. altitude. It's like everything you could. possibly [ __ ] imagine. Yes. >> Whereas everybody else is traveling all. over the country, and I know you guys. are too, but it's appeared to me it's. like, I don't know why the [ __ ] these. guys are traveling all the damn time. It's all literally everything is right.

here. >> They have a climbing wall. They have. altitude simulator. they have all, you. know, you know, I it was very. interesting like once, you know, once. you're there and you're kind of through. training and whatever, I could just. keep my guns in my cage. Like I didn't have to go. sign like get the ordinance rep to sign. them out of the armory to go train with. them and turn them right away in. I.

could keep my guns in my cage. I could. take them. I could go to the range. anytime I wanted. I could shoot. I'd. clean my own guns. Um. once a month or whatever when they did. they had to do an official weapons. inventory. Then it had to go back in the. cage. They would get eyes on. Then you. could take it back and just go like keep. all your gear in your cage and go train. with it. >> Nice. >> Um. it was interesting though like when I. first got there. probably doesn't mean.

[ __ ] to anybody else, but it's. >> it's a big deal. >> But it is a [ __ ] big deal. >> It's a big deal. >> Like it was like when I was at Seal Team. 5, it was so hard to go train. Like if. you got to go to a range, it was it was. on a trip. >> Yeah. >> You weren't doing it there, right? Um, so for starters, the. like the first thing that stood out to. me and this was like like when I got.

there in like I moved there in ' 04 and. started to like hang out and I was going. to go through training in '05 and. like like guys are a little older. because they've done at least two. rotations. Um, obviously there was the grooming. standards, you know, back then. Like back then it. was a significant difference like long. hair, beards, everything. >> Uh, and you couldn't have that at, you.

know, team five or other teams. Um, and just yeah, the the command itself. like was this kind of Death Star type. area like with all these buildings and. all these training facilities and like. these like just the uh the meeting rooms. just everything was you just had more, right? and you had um.

like way more gear. the amount of gear. that you get it. even as a even even when you get your. gear for like green team. it it's just like whoa this is way nicer. than the stuff I had. at team five and this is what they're. giving me for training you know wow and. then. >> you just kept getting more you kept. getting more. insane right the amount of just the gear.

and the other thing and I I don't know. I haven't really rehearsed what to say. about this, but. you got to be there at Dev Group like. you're going to have to be there five. plus years. more probably more than that. and have done multiple you know five. plus deployments. probably more before you're in charge of. a six-man team.

No [ __ ] That's generally how it works. >> I've never heard anybody say that. >> So you like it is so like and when you. go through your selection, most people. are E5s or E6s. and then all of a sudden you're on a. six-man assault team of one E6 with a. bunch of E7s. Like it's just more. senior, right? And just more mature. Um. just been around longer. Um, so yeah, it's it's just and there's just. this different kind of attitude, you.

know, you can just I don't know, more. certainly in some ways more mature, you. know, because obviously they're just. older, >> right? Um, I would say. a couple of things that really stood out. to me. So when I was new at a team, Seal. Team 5, like I knew that well I felt like. if I wanted to I wanted to be the best. teammate I could be. And so part of that. meant being as good at my craft as.

possible. Like how good can just being a. good shooter, you know, being able to. shoot, move, communicate, doing all the. all the component skills of being an. operator, right? But then also. being a good teammate, right? And. helping people out and, you know, helping other departments out. like it. I've always believed it's.

it's not good enough to be good at your. job. Like, do you make other people. better? And I I learned that in. I learned that in football. I it got. emphasized at team five, right? And it, you know, something I watched other. people do at at Devgroup, right? So, as. good as as good as you can be at your at. your craft, that is how you make the team better. But it's also not good enough just to be.

really good. You have to like help other. people. And that's being a teammate, being selfless, being humble, and then. being a better leader, right? And that. starts by like being a really good. follower because you can't expect other. people to follow you someday if you. haven't if you weren't willing to like. follow what your boss told you to do, >> right? >> Um and I found that the skills were all. very similar. You just had to do them.

like sharper, maybe a little faster, a. little better. Like you had to do. everything a little bit better, right? As it came to shooting or parachuting or. whatever. higher higher expectation. And. I would also say that. at the command at at dev group. um. like you don't buy a spot there, you. rent it and.

that rent is due daily. If that makes. sense. >> Makes sense. So it's kind of like we've. all heard I will earn my trident every. day like true to an extent but there. specifically like they are having. they're having a new group come up every. year with a draft essentially and. there's people that want your spot and. people that make it there.

You get kicked out every year. just, you know, shooting a hostage in. training or whatever. Like, not I don't. know. Like there's a like safety. violations or kill house violations or. whatever. People that make it there are. regularly booted for performance or. usually it's safety if that makes sense. And so, and I found that. honestly like the.

like the really the best of the best. were. both. like they're obviously competent at. their at their job, but they're humble. and obsessed. So humble enough to not rely on my on. the fact that I just shot this six plate. drill faster than anyone else. Like.

humble enough to realize like I need to. still get better, right? Or humble. enough to know that no matter how good I. am at this, like like. even though the bad guy doesn't train as. hard as me, he could still get lucky. Like one RPG hits a helicopter. When. you're saying the best of the best, I. mean, you are the best of the best when. you get over there. Are you saying the. best of the best at that particular. command? >> Yeah. Like you like I would look around. like, you know, you would just see like.

the people that I looked up the most to. as operators. Like they were humble and. obsessed at the same time. Like we had a. strong belief that you don't rise to the. occasion, you fall to your level of. preparation. And I feel like humility precedes that. level of preparation. Like you have to. be humble to realize you still need to. keep training. >> The person who's not humble thinks.

they've made it. >> Mhm. >> They don't need to train. Or another way. to think about it, the humble operator is more inclined not. only to not think like, oh, I'm not any. better, so I need to train, but also I'm. not any better than my teammate, so I'm. going to go like, it's time to like. whatever, clean the high bay or take out. the trash. Like that level of. selflessness, like humility, the.

humility enough to like help each other. out. >> Gotcha. and then obsessed with the. the craft, I guess you'd say. >> Did you notice these things immediately? >> Um, I don't think I was mature enough to. notice them immediately. >> How old were you when you got over. there? >> Damn. When you got in at what, 21? 20 22nd deployment. 22nd birthday on. your first deployment. >> So, I would have been 25.

>> 25. I mean, not I think it was. 26, so it was still pretty young. Um, is. that right? 25. So, um, still pretty young. Um, but like, you know, I didn't didn't have. the. charity now that I have now, you know.

Um, and I would just look back and I can. look back with the benefit of hindsight. like at the the good operators were. humble and obsessed, right? Um, always. prepared, always helping other people, right? And. having like seasoned operators help you. out as a new guy there or whatever the. case may be. Um, so. I mean it's the same job. It's just.

doing it to a different level maybe. Um, so a level of humility and obsession. with just being really really good at. it. You know what I mean? >> Which have that obsession. I did uh and. it you know it gets you have to you have. to really. obsession is a uh double-edged sword. like if you obsess over everything then.

pretty soon you will run out of. bandwidth right if you are as obsessed. with. you know how you make your morning. coffee with as how you would I don't. know clean your gun or sharpen your. blade or whatever like pretty soon. you're going to run out of energy So you. had to be super careful. It It's like. beware of how much of the things you. obsess over cuz it'll you only have so. much bandwidth, >> right? Um, and it was it was very hard.

for. so we had a we had a kid. um. in. our first first kid we had while I was. going through training there and um my. son. and then had him in September. Then I'd finished training and deployed. right away. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> Um,

and my wife I swear like I think I was. gone on average 300 days a year there. Something like 280 to 300. And we. >> a lot of time. >> we made. my my poor wife was pregnant or nursing. the whole time we were there. We had. three kids right while I was there. um. from essentially we had moved there in. the end of ' 04 and left there at the.

end of09, beginning of 2010. Uh we had. three kids. and. it was. my kids were young enough to where they. don't remember me being gone for. birthdays, like on deployments or work. trips. So, and I've, you know, since had, you know, a lot of friends who've, you know, had. kids at the same time that ended up.

staying there longer and like their kids. would for sure have. memories of them being gone over. Christmas and stuff like that. So, uh, it got it definitely I I saw it getting. harder and harder to. be a, you know, to be a good husband and. father and a seal at the same time. >> Mhm. >> Now, I I think you can and I think I did. a pretty good job of balancing that at. that time. Um, like when I was when I.

was home from being on a trip, like work. hard, get my work done, but like I. wasn't going out on week nights in. Virginia Beach. I was coming home. Um, and then when we'd go on the road, I. would go out with guys, right? But I. would not let that in any way like. affect how hard I worked at at work or. how hard I trained. Like I trained as. hard as I trained as hard as anyone. Like we a friend of mine and I like we.

would do. we would do these like Friday morning. workouts like where. we had this rule like you had to be like. completely fasted and this was before. people were really fasting for like. longevity and stuff like that. But we. would do like a really long ruck on the. soft sand. followed by like some sort of body armor.

like push-up pull-up sit-up thing. Um. followed by. like an operator standards handgun and. rifle test. >> Nice. >> Followed literally by like chess just to. like you're so depleted after all that. the only thing you were allowed were was. like electrolytes, right? And so we would like do stuff. like that, maybe some grappling, you. know, stuff like that. So,

>> right on. >> Um, but I I can also say like my wife. and I have now been married. uh 24 years. And. I also got medically retired from that. command that, you know, a lot of people. do get divorced from. So, you know, maybe that was God's plan, like that I would get, you know, that I. would get hurt in combat and the kidney. thing would come back to bite me and I. would get kicked out of the Navy. So,

like that's kind of the way I I kind of. think about it. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. Um, >> let's get into some deployment stuff. >> Yeah. >> Where was your first deployment to? >> Iraq. There. When I was there, I I would say. mostly went to Iraq. I did go to. Afghanistan. Um, two good two good war stories for you.

One one takes place on Super Bowl. Sunday, um, 2008. So, I'd been there for. a little while, and this is in Iraq. Um, we didn't think we'd have a mission. that night. because it was Super Bowl Sunday and our. pilots TF-160 said the helicopters were. down for maintenance. They also wanted. to watch the Super Bowl. Um, but then we found out there's an HVT.

in our AO, sorry, high value target area. of responsibility. and we had to go out and do a capture. kill mission. So, we go out on this mission and we're. going to. this guy is he's in one of three. buildings. So, we split the the troop. into three, you know, small assault. teams. um to go. assault three different buildings.

simultaneously. So, we keep the element. of surprise, right? Because they're all. like hundred yards apart. And as. Eddie and Dom's unit is getting close to. their building, so I'm already I'm. already in front of the building that I. will soon be leading a team through the. door, right? And I got my I got my gun. on that door, right? It's pitch black. We're going to be taking this building.

Eddie and Dom's team goes past us and. they're going to go set up on this. building and on their I think they. barely get there or they're almost there. and somehow they get made. and it was there was a little moon out. that night but somehow someone saw them. and. people started like running out of that. building trying to get close to them and. blow themselves up. They had suicide.

vests. Now, Intel had told us there'd be. suicide vests on this whole Target set, but I mean, there ends up being like. 15 people wearing suicide vests. >> Holy [ __ ] They were legitimately they. were running at Were they detonating. themselves? >> Yeah. So, they were running at the other. element, the other assault team, cuz they knew the gig was up. So, they. were just trying to get as close as. possible to them. And they were all. running like back then the uh the.

initiators were on the shoulders. So if. they went like this, they could still. blow themselves up, right? They knew. that cuz they knew that the like we. would have. the interpreter would tell them to come. out and put their hands up and put them. like that and then they could reach like. almost like a rip cord right there. Does. that make sense? Mhm. >> So they would run out of this building. at Eddie and Dom's group and I something. like three or four of them just blew up,

right? And so I'm I'm sitting there. holding this door. I'm holding this door and I just hear. gunfire. Boom. More gunfire. Boom. More. gunfire. Like it's three or four times, right? And it's shaking the ground. like. these are like big SVESTs. and. across you know the that team leader. comes across the radio and he's like.

shots fired shots fired suicide vest be. careful. and like I remember like I literally. before that moment I literally had. thought. like we had got into position early. most of the time the mission goes as. planned like you go in, you capture, you. kill the guy, whatever it is. You get. home, I'm like like we're going to be. back for halftime. and obviously we weren't. So they didn't.

they end up um eventually taking that. target down and now you know I'm holding. on a door like maybe from here to the. you know that engine block and then a. guy comes out of that door. and he's uh he's got a suicide vest and. he's got an AK. He can't see me but I'm. like this far away. Like obviously I. have to engage him. Um, he's already too.

close. And there's another teammate of. mine right there. Like that's even. closer. Like if he blows himself like we. we could just die right now, >> especially if he had shrapnel on it. Um, even worse would be to let him go back. in there because we have to go in there. and find, you know, the the leader and. that could be him. But like, as you. know, like. a suicide vest inside is much worse than. a suicide vest outside just because of.

the reverberation. uh or the concussion factor. >> So, I. >> How could you tell he was wearing a. suicide vest? Well, he had a big vest on and four people had. just blown themselves up. >> So, I assumed I assumed it was an SBST. and and and like we were told like we. were briefed. like we knew that the target line that. we were chasing was like mostly.

foreigners, like not obviously not. Iraqis at all. They're from all over. um. like but they had come together under. the al-Qaeda banner to fight and um. fight Americans there in Iraq. Um and. this group in particular was known like. they were not going to surrender and. they were not going to get taken alive. So they wore suicide vests and they all. had AKs, right? And so he had what to me.

and we found out after I shot him it was. a suicide vest. But I'm like well it is. a vest and they just blew themselves up. >> Mhm. >> It could be right. >> I was just trying to get you to describe. what it looks like for the audience. >> Oh yeah. So he had. >> not questioning your judgment. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, he had like his man. jammies on and then. it didn't look like an assault vest. You. know what I mean? It had like that and. it's not like you can see the wires on.

the thing from your but it looks. different than it's not like a I'll date. myself here like in a Blackhawk assault. vest. Remember those? >> Oh yeah. >> Right. Uh which we bought with our own. money. Um no. So I end up and we were. you know at that time it was like hey if. suicide vests are even on the menu it's. all head shot because you don't want it. to. you know, blow up just by. So, I got him.

and then at this point, you know, they've heard us in that building. They've heard me shoot this guy. There's still another target to. prosecute. We still have to take my. building down. And we're like, hey, like, as you know, we need speed, surprise, violence of action. So, we. needed some momentum. Let's So I'm I was. standing over like behind a wall. I jump. that wall and I'm like, "Hey, we're. assaulting this target. Run into that.".

And I. I kind of and he's in the doorway, so I. have to straddle him, right? And he's. wearing an unexloded suicide vest. And. I'm straddling him and like pinging the. There's a cornerfed room. So I'm pinging. that room and I don't see anyone in. there. And I'm from the corner. I'm like, I'm. good. I'm gonna get I'm going to get. through this room. All the other bad guys are like probably.

like in the main room, right? And I had. I could clear most of that. I mean, you can clear most this room. from that door, right? Corner bed room. and I. clear it, but I couldn't see all the way. down this wall, you know, and and I didn't realize so there was. someone in there and he was barricaded. Oh [ __ ] So.

I sneak I'm and I'm still like they know. we're around, but I wasn't going to just. take it dynamically at this point. We're. not doing a hostage rescue. So, I kind. of sneak through the doorway and my. first step in that doorway, all hell breaks loose and I am, you. know, three yards away from four yards. away from a guy who's behind. a barricade and he's spraying me and I'm. in like I'm in the doorway, right?

>> [ __ ] And. it felt like, you know, it felt like. minutes. Obviously, it wasn't, but I do. remember. having this feeling like, how did I like. how did I get here? Like, I'm going to die in Iraq on Super. Bowl Sunday. Like I should be I. literally had this like thought like I. should be at home watching Super Bowl. with cold hot pizza and cold beer. You.

know what I mean? And now I'm here in. Iraq doing this. Uh. but then. I also had this like moment where. I heard the first three or four shots, but then I didn't hear anything. Like it's like my hearing shut off and. all I saw was the muzzle flash. And like. I've later read about when people get.

put in those circumstances like they. will lose one or two of their senses to. like focus all their energy on another. sense like maybe their sense of touch, right? And I felt like I lost my sense. of hearing. and my adrenaline was like. like all of that was. focused into my fine motor skill like of. running down my wall and shooting back. and like that's all I did. Ran down my. wall and shot back and he missed me and.

I got him right. Um, and and I got, you know, I've said it. before, we don't rise to the occasion. We fall to our level of training. And before, you know, we had before that point have. had been in gunfights, but nothing like. that close and personal and that. consequential where it's, you know, it's. almost me to you and he's shoot he's.

he's got the first three or four shots. with an AK, right? >> [ __ ]. Um, and we found out later that. before that happened, he tried blowing. his suicide vest up, but it failed. >> [ __ ]. >> His cap failed. >> So, not only does his cap fail and that. vest not blow up when I walk through the. door. Um, he misses me. I'm run and I'm I mean, I'm telling you, I'm running pretty fast.

down my wall and I got him. So I ran. down my wall. I shot him. while moving, you know, in this region, not here to not blow up his vest. And. you know, it's better to be lucky than. good. And. you know, that's a very hard shot to. make, but that that's like table stakes. when you're at death group. You know. what I mean? being able to move down a.

wall and quickly shoot someone in the. head while with nods, right? So, that's. what I did. And um. I come out of that like I come out of. that room and uh. I come out of that room and I just. remember like you know you're always. kind of patting yourself for a bullet. hole because you might not feel it in. the moment. So, I come out of that room. and I'm like this and I'm crushing my. legs and I literally go like and my.

buddy sees me do this on knots. I. totally forget doing it, but I'm like. this. safe and my my buddy's sitting there. on knot cuz you know we have such a sick. sense of humor, right? And he's just. like dying. He's like, "Bro, I can't. believe you did that.". And I didn't even it didn't even dawn on. me, right? Like so that was like. I mean I was elated. Obviously I was.

happy to still be alive but like oh I. got that guy. He didn't get me. Like you. get that kind of adrenaline. And then probably. I don't know less than five minutes. later uh Mike and Nate get shot. Well. four other guys get shot. Two of them. die. Um, Mike Ko gets like shot through the. ear hole. >> Nate under the armpit, right through the. heart. And they were in a similar room.

with a sandbag shooter, but there were. two of them. uh or more. And um. you know, two guys got shot in the. courtyard. Mike and Nate got shot going. through the door. And now. now we have um. whatever four guys shot. Um. sorry buzz. We have four guys shot and. um.

you know two are we don't know they're. dead right away but I spent um. you know I like that night I like I shot. all my all the bullets I had remaining. just trying to help. you know, we were. recovering bodies and Mike and Nate's. and I remember putting like putting Mike. into the bag and zipping it up, putting. him on the helicopter. >> Um, and then, you know, we came back, we went back to. our base and.

they were obviously dead and we were. going to have um had a little Irish wake. that morning. And. that next night, uh, I think Eddie may have mentioned. this op like three nights later when the. building blew up. Well, between between. when when Mike and Nate died and when. Louis Srant died, um there was a point.

where Louie came up to me and Louie, he. kind of knew. he knew I was a Christian. He knew I was. a believer. And. you know, I would say things like. blessing and things like that. And I. would I would say that I went to church. and things like that, but I wasn't like. truly living out my faith, you know, like walking the walk as I should. And.

and he was just asking me, he was kind. of like beating around the bush, just. asking me what I believed and why. >> And. those discussions, >> huh, >> I always think those are the best. discussions. And I and like I was not at. that moment it wasn't like I wasn't. ashamed. but I was I was afraid. and I was afraid because.

like the Bible says to always be able to. you know give a reason for the hope that. you have right and what you believe and. why but I was like so worried about. sharing my faith because I didn't have. all the answers right I wanted to be an. e like I was overthinking it I wanted to. be an expert. Well, what about this and what about. that and what like know the Bible before. I would share it. You know what I mean? >> Like overthinking it. Um, and I didn't I. kind of just changed the subject because. I didn't have all the answers.

And I've you know I've had a pastor. since tell me. like in those instances we don't need to. be lawyers, we need to be witnesses. like which is a really good way of. thinking about it. We don't need to be. experts. We are experts on our own lives. and if we are if we have a relationship. with Jesus and how things have changed. because of that we are experts on how. that has helped us or whatever and I.

didn't want to share it because I didn't. like you know I didn't have think I had. the words you know what I mean I was. thinking I needed to be an expert not. just a witness and I didn't have the. like the courage to just talk about my. faith like I do now. And here he is kind. of searching like beating around the. bush and really was going to ask me is. like, well, why do good people like Mike. and Nate die and like the bad people. not? Which I still don't have the answer. for, right? But I'm sitting there and.

you know of all the of all the regrets I. have I like today these now every. morning I spend time praying reading the. Bible and journaling and. I've been doing that for whatever 10. years. It makes every day better. It doesn't it. doesn't make every day easier. There's. still plenty of hard things. It just. makes me handle hard things better. Uh.

it makes me sharper at work no matter. what I'm doing. It it it helps my. workouts. I It like it helps every. aspect of my life. I spend an hour a day. in the morning first thing giving God. the first hour of my day. Time in. prayer, time in the word, and time journaling. and stillness and solitude and silence. like from 5 to 6 or 6 to whatever it is. And I've literally found it helps every. aspect of my life. In fact, if anyone is.

like, "Well, what would you do?" Like. like the do that for a month and get. back to me. And you don't have to do a. full hour, right? >> If I swear if I would have done that in. the teams and I've talked to my. teammates about some teammates about. this, like man, if we would have done. that, >> like I swear I would have been a better. seal, right? I would have been like just. cuz I feel like things are just more. clear to me. I'm I have more I have more. energy from it. You feel like you're.

losing an hour of sleep. But that period of time where you're. just waiting on the Lord each morning. like gives you this strength. Long story short, like I. at that age in my life, I was I wasn't. afraid to run into a room full of. al-Qaeda for the flag that I wore on my. shoulder, but I was afraid to share my. faith for that cross I wore underneath.

my body armor. >> That's interesting. You know, I get it. I know what you mean. But. couple of things. first being. I mean now that you're deeper in your. faith, isn't it weird that that's how we. you know when the when the discussion. happens and I still think about it and I. still I still you know my mind switches. and goes back to this too but because we. don't know anything else but you know. this world. >> but I mean if you're a true believer I.

mean that's the ultimate goal right to. cross over. >> and we always we always talk about it is. if it's a it's. if it's a tragedy. If it's a tragedy. because because that's what we see. We. see [ __ ] tragedy. We see fatherless. kids. >> Yeah. >> You know, gold star wives. And it's a mess. But, you know, the reality of it is it's that.

that. that's the reward. That's the ultimate. goal. That's where we go. That's home. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and it's. I mean, just looking around at people, you know, and everybody's got their. [ __ ] Everybody's suffering. I think there's very few people that are. genuinely happy. It's just [ __ ] it's interesting, you. know, how we perceive it.

>> And and. you know, it's funny. I was just talking. to our mutual friend who protects my. family and uh I think we were talking. about it this morning and um. I don't even know why it came up but I. was just like man I just. was like it's so weird now man like I I. never gave a [ __ ] about dying. It never. it never really I mean I didn't want to. die. It's not like I had a death wish. but it just didn't really bother me that.

much. >> But I didn't have kids. I didn't have a. wife. >> Yeah. And even when I did get married, I. mean, it w it wasn't until I real until I had. kids. that now I'm scared. I'm [ __ ] scared. to death to die. >> and leave them here in this [ __ ] up. world. >> Sure. >> You know what I mean? With no guidance. >> You're not afraid of death for your own. s. You're just afraid of leaving them. behind. >> That's it, man. That's it. That's the.

only. >> I get that. >> That's my only tie. Yeah. >> What about you? I mean, >> you know, >> but you had kids. >> and. >> I didn't have kids while I was doing. this. >> I did. I had kids. So, that that the day. that happened, I had two kids. Um, I had kids my whole time at Dev Group. >> Man, dude, that is [ __ ] crazy. >> I had.

the I called my wife. I mean this was. few years before that I was in. Afghanistan. I called my wife on a sat. phone. She was just going to get an. ultrasound. with a friend because I wasn't there to. find out the sex of a baby that we were. having. I get her on the satphone. She's like, "We're having a girl. We agree on the name over the satphone. right there. It's a girl. We're gonna name her. Daisy." But she just graduated high.

school. Anyway, that night we go on a I go on a mission. and I am between three different Taliban. compounds and I had like I had helped. lead a group into this area and. we get pinned down from three buildings. and we're in the middle of this in it's. like the Helman Province. It's like a. bowling alley. It's flat and I cannot I. can't figure out. I'm towards the front.

I'm like, well, which one of these. buildings is shooting at us and I'm it, you know, there's three of them and like. we found out later it's all of them. Uh, but I'm trying to I'm trying to help. coordinate an air strike because they're. like shooting here and here and there. And so I get up on my knee to like get a. better view. and. a bullet whizzes by my hair my head and.

cuts off a chunk of hair. I had longer. hair than this. >> Get the [ __ ] out of here. Are you. serious? >> I had longer hair than this. It's. sticking out of my helmet. Um I lose a chunk of hair from like an. AK round, right? And I had just like not. five hours before that I'd been on a sad. phone with my wife and I were having a. girl like I almost didn't meet her right. and I was like that night on that. helicopter ride home I was a little bit.

like almost nauseous like dry heaving a. little bit like cuz I almost I mean that. was close. >> You weren't like all right [ __ ]. not the hair. >> don't off limits. Um, but I almost like, you know, I'm like I'm inches away from, you know, that or whatever. Um, and. there were there was, you know, other. close calls. I had a like. there was also a time like I would sit.

there I would sit there on a helicopter. flight um and I would. I would always say. if we had a 60inute flight I'd say a. 40minute prayer. and then I would then I would rehearse. the op in my head kind of like Michael. Jordan rehearsing a game in his head. like I did that on every helicopter. flight and I would I would say Like I. did say God like if there's any I know. there's non-believers on my team and if.

there are like I would happily die. instead of them. I would just want them. to you know live longer to find their. faith. But I still wasn't always like. sharing my faith with them. I mean, I. had a. there were two nights um in in Iraq. where I volunteered to go into a. instead of sending a full team in, like. I went in with an just an EOD guy to. clear a building that we thought was. rigged to explode. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> I had two kids, but I was comfortable.

with it because I knew where I was going. if something would happen and I didn't. know if other people did. Now, that's. very selfish. Like, I don't. Babe, if you're watching this, I'm. sorry. Um I So, that I did I think I did. that twice in Iraq. Um but that was. after and that was after the building. blew up when Louisie died. [ __ ]. >> So, it was possible. Um but I didn't I.

don't know. I don't know. To answer your. question, now I'm kind of rambling. I I. do fear leaving them behind. Um, I just. hope, you know, now they're old enough. that, you know, I've. like either taught them or showed them. enough. You know what I mean? But there. will never be enough time. You know what I mean? I do. I think uh.

I know what struck up the conversation. this morning. Um, my uncle just died a couple days ago. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> At my parents' 50th wedding anniversary. >> I'm sorry for that, man. >> Thank you. But. he um. he died on a fishing trip with his son. and uh and my brother and Yeah. and uh.

and he he he was he was like on my. brother's ass. to get that fishing charter going. >> They had seen each other in a long time. The whole family was there except me. unfortunately. >> Oh man. >> And um. he. got in the water to cool off. and died right there on the water. Peaceful death. with his son who had.

been struggling for a long time. Finally. got it together. They're getting along. and um. sad, but at the same time. I [ __ ] hope I go like that. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Uh. >> we just don't know how long we get. >> You don't. And but I I think, you know,

I just hope I can see my kids. flourishing and not worry and just know. like. >> they're going to be all right. >> And if that happens, I'm good. >> Yeah, >> those are lofty goals, basic ones, simple ones. Um. >> died having a good time with a son on a. fishing trip. Mhm.

You know, I I say like I thank God every. morning like I thank God for everything. I have, but I start by thanking him for. the fact that I woke up. like God, I don't deserve a day you give. me. Thank you for this one. Show me what to do and show me how to do. it. and and or. strengthen me for whatever. BS is coming my way because I can't do.

it alone. Um and I think that I mean I believe. that's so true. So. we just you know we don't know. Yeah. You know, I'll tell you another thing. that kind of um it always catches my. gold team. Like I don't know like what. what the what the what the.

the culture of each team is within. development group. >> Yeah. But just something that I've. picked up from the outside is man like. the gold team has. a lot of righteous warriors for Christ. coming out of there a lot more than any. of the other teams that I've noticed. And what's really [ __ ] odd is it's a. cross. >> the crusader. you know, he has the cru. it's and I've talked about this I I I've. talked about it I think with Eddie Dah I.

don't know who all I've talked about it. with but every time I bring it up. they're like I never thought of that and. I'm like how the [ __ ] did you not think. of that man like. >> and I I. >> strong faith coming out of that squadron. >> and I think there's you know I I have. friends from all of them and I have met. friends in all of them that have as. strong a faith Um, and all of us though. from my vintage, we would all agree like. we just wish we were all in that time a.

little more open about it. >> even to the point of having like Bible. studies and stuff together. >> versus like. >> and now we're, you know, now we're. definitely more now we're, you know, more open about it. But um it's my only. regret that and you know I back to. Louisie. I was like I didn't share my faith with. him or just having like what I believed. and why and like why I have hope for the.

future just because like no matter how. bad all of this goes like even if I get. a hundred years right get eternity in. heaven like and it's going to be as. better than I can imagine. Um, even if I. would say something like that, right, because I believe in Jesus, I didn't. And he like died two nights. later. And two nights later, I was. standing. like I had just led our team up to a.

window, sorry, up to a building. and. I was again the lead guy, the point man. So, I was going to lead us through that. door. and I stopped because there was a window. here and I had to pan through that. window. Then there were guys in there. waiting for us. So, I engaged them. through the window. The rest of the team. goes past. or they were already passed and they're. setting up on the door and I'm like, you.

know, 10 feet from the door at this. point. And then I just remember like and Eddie. wasn't even supposed to be there. He's. supposed to be back over there getting. ready to support with EOD, but then at. the last minute he kind of bumped up. and not Eddie, I'm sorry, Louie. Um, and then all of a sudden the whole when. the building blew up, I literally. thought I literally thought our our. breacher threw like some top secret.

grenade in there cuz the whole building. blew up and I was like, "What kind of. grenade was that?" Cuz the last thing I. remember before passing out cuz I was by. the window which saved me. I the over pressure of being next to the. window blew me, you know, whatever, 30. ft away from the building or however. far, but it blew me enough to where I bounced. off the next building like or the wall, right? So, it blew me away from that.

window. I bounced off this compound wall. over here. and then when I came to. all of that assault team, my assault. team had been, you know, crushed. Um, and. that's when Louis died like and he got. basically where he was there was a thick. concrete roof like a carport like they.

have over there. That whole thing fell. on him. >> [ __ ]. >> And then other people like our dog. handler, he had like double compound. femur fracture, two thigh bones sticking. out. We had another guy who had like a. full pelvic fracture and then a couple. of broken arms and a broken leg. Like. they were all And like I'm the only one. who didn't get hurt, but. I I mean I got a concussion. And I got.

blown away from the building because of. the and I was the first guy. I like I. would be the first guy in but I stopped. and I was engaging other bad guys. through a window and then I got blown. away from the the window. And that's that's like two nights, three. nights after, you know, the Super Bowl. Sunday. Um, and I I'll just never like so I get. medevaced because I I was so my bell was.

rung so hard that I couldn't stand up. like like I had that much of a. concussion. and I had played high school football. and one year of college football so I. knew I know concussions, right? But I. was like, man, and I was nauseous. So I. get medevaced. I have to get a CAT scan. They say I'm fine and I'm f I feel fine. But like now my entire assault team gets.

sent home like from one houseorn IED and. then Eddie dies. Sorry, not Eddie. I. keep saying that. Louie. Um, forgive me. Eddie. I did not mean your name. Um but. Louie dies and um. it was just nights after you know Mike. and Nate. So. >> how are you handling that? >> At the time you know I didn't.

at the time I just you know like. compartmentalized it. >> Yeah. Predator I don't got time to bleed. type deal. And then um honestly like I. that whole deployment was so busy like. it was. like couple nights later we're operating. again. They'd flown in guys to replace. the rest of my team and we're out back. back on the ground you know chasing bad.

guys. Didn't have time to deal with it. really. Um, and. it wasn't until later when I just. realized like the thing that I. and I I will say I don't have this. I I mean we all have whatever PTSD or. whatever they call it now. I. I hear about people that struggle to.

fall asleep and, you know, have brain fog and all the. operator syndrome stuff. And I I have. none of it. Like I don't even have. nightmares about what I saw or what I. did. And I attribute that to my faith. Like I have none of that. I only have. regrets of like not being willing to. share my faith, right? Um, and certainly I know there are, you. know, I have my share of medical issues,

right? And I probably have, you know, brain. issues from not just that one. I mean, I. was IDed three times. That was the one. big one. But then there's all the. grenades and just, you know, shooting a. little gun inside of a kill house. All. of those things add up. Um I found out. later that even um you can get like. brain issues from too many parachute. jumps. Just that opening shock, right? >> Oh [ __ ].

>> Especially like the. the the parachutes we had which were for. like for higher altitude. So they have. less paracity. So they can open quicker. at altitude. Um that means if you pre. when you train lower they open harder if. that makes any sense. Um, so just all. those things can lead to different brain. whatever lesions or whatever they get. now. Um, but I don't like I saw really.

bad things. Um, I was put in situations. where I had to, you know, it was me or. them. Um, and I I don't know. I sleep fine. I fall. asleep. Like the only time I don't sleep. fine is when I have like stuff going on. at work and I wake up at 2:00 in the. morning, take a leak, and then my brain. starts to roll, right? Like I'm sure we. all get that. But. >> I am uh, you know, when I got out of the.

military, I tried, you know, I never did. a lot. I never did drugs or anything, but I, you know, I lost myself in work. I lost myself in um hobbies uh or. working out or the outdoors. Um even, you know, I drank quite a bit. Um. but never like, you know, I always I could never drink. more than two nights in a row. Gives me. a headache. Um,

but nothing ever like fills the like. fills the God-sized hole or the. God-shaped hole that you have other than. like it like that time spent in uh. prayer and in reading the Bible and. journaling. And I I attribute that to my. relatively well, you know, adapt being. adapted from all the things I got to see. and do. So, um I don't know, and maybe. that's not the case, but that's what I.

believe. >> So, and then I had a uh you ever think about. why you were spared those two times in a. row, and I'm sure there's a lot of. others. >> I think. >> I think you're doing the thing that you. need to be doing. >> I think about that all the time. >> Yeah, me too. I wonder. I kind of wonder like was I'm was I. spared to have the the next kid like so. that or am I was I spared to go like am.

I. am I fulfilling my calling and purpose? That's always the that's always the. question. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? And that's. something I ask God every day. >> So um I I don't know the answer to that. >> It's a good question to ask. >> Yeah. I think it's a good like it's a. good question to ask all the time and. keeps you kind of. at least like having something to aim. at, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um.

and I had like I had a great like the. Navy as hard as the Navy is and. certainly the hard as it is to be a that. team like that team has been defi. described as like a burning ferris. wheel. like you get on it, you know it's. on fire and it's you're going to get. burnt and you're going to get ground out. and spit out the other end, but you like. you still want on on it. You know what I. mean? Uh but as hard as the Navy was and.

like all the things that happened to me. in the Navy, like it gave me more than. it took, you know, like so I don't have any like. I don't regret doing that. Um, >> why did you wind up leaving? >> So, I got medically retired because of my. kidney. And. so, I had lost if if we can rewind back.

to O2 when I lost my kidney and I'm on a. hospital bed and I signed a waiver to. stay in the military. I didn't know that that was a. non-deployable waiver. Are you [ __ ] serious? I immediately. deployed right after it. >> Wow. >> And then I did four more at Dev Group. Um, and it wasn't until I got hurt in.

combat that the Bureau of Navy Medicine. found out. because they had to sign off on my. Purple Heart and they showed up at the. command. The Bureau of Navy Medicine shows up at. dev group at the command and says, "Where is this Froheart and my boss?". It's like, what do you mean? Why? Like, it says here that he got injured in Iraq. and he is being awarded a Purple Heart.

How is that possible? He's like, well, what do you mean? He was over there and. he got house. He got blown up in an IED. and the Bureau of Navy, >> how's this possible? You're a [ __ ]. dev group, [ __ ] Yeah. How do you. think it's possible? Bureau of Navy, Bureau of Navy Medicine. goes, "Well, he signed a waiver to stay. in the military back in O2 and he hasn't. he was not supposed to deploy. since that.".

And it that's how. wires get crossed and bureaucracies have. no idea. Like, can you imagine? >> Wow. >> So, they I signed a waiver to stay in. under the caveat that I couldn't deploy. And then I just I didn't know that I was. also high on morphine when I signed this. waiver. and no one like I never read it. I like. never and I just kept going. >> Wow. Wow.

>> It finally caught up with me. Right. >> Five deployments later, they tell you no. more. Huh? >> Uh-huh. Wow. Wow. Were you pissed? So, I was upset. Like, I was like I actually. fought it for a little bit and then I. had to go get a med board. and the med board came back and said, "Yeah, you like you can't keep going.". They said, "You could have shore duty. You could." And they actually they even.

offered to let me stay at the command. like I could work, you know, in a. training role with the like the sniper. guys or whatever. Um, I would have taken that offer if I had. 15 in and I only needed like five more. But at this point, I am almost like to. 12 years. And I didn't want to do. 10 years. >> Uhhuh. >> teaching people and not going. Like if I. can't go.

and go at the highest level, then I want. out. And I got out. I had six months. They. gave me six months like because that's. that was my EAOS. >> Six months. >> E AOS was six months. So I got out like. I got catapulted not only out of the. Navy but like I was. up to that point like by the time my med. finished. I was training with the. squadron getting ready to deploy. I.

found out, >> holy [ __ ]. >> I found out weeks before a deployment I. was not going to be allowed to go. and then I had and I had planned on, you. know, how it works. I was going to go on. that deployment and reinlist. because then I get my reinlistment bonus. uh taxree. and instead of reinlisting in December. of09 like that was my EOS and it just it.

expired. So I found out in July of ' 06 that like. I found out before that about that they. weren't going to let me but that's when. my med finalized. and then by de not July of '06 but um. sorry 09. and then by December of09 I was out of. the Navy. So I had a no shore duty, no transition time.

you know how you sometimes get a. >> a short duty job or a like you can go. network and find your next thing. So now. I'm just but I knew I needed to like if. I'm getting out I needed to leave. Virginia Beach. >> So we left Virginia Beach. >> Wow. You left that fast. >> And it was as hard as it was to join the. Navy and become a SEAL. It was like. harder to leave. >> No idea what you're going to do. So, it was the hardest period of my.

life, you know, and I've had kidney. stones in hell week and I've been in. hospitals from getting blown up and I've. lost teammates and all like all those. things. But that period of time, those. first couple years post Navy where. like you get out and. like I didn't know. like I didn't know my purpose anymore. Um.

I didn't have a way to make a living. like I couldn't find a job so I had to. like just start one like. um. I didn't have my team around me um the. camaraderie with my teammates and then. most of all like I like. incorrectly my identity was wrapped up. in that trident. like all of ours like my I was.

singularly focused on one thing and that. was being a Navy Seal and that was taken. from me and that is how I defined myself. like I was a SEAL first. then a husband a father and a Christian. and all these other monikers right but. like I was my self-worth came from my. profession you know what I mean. >> and then and I used to be able to say. like oh what do you do for a living I'm. a Navy Seal.

and that meant something and then all of. a sudden I'm just, you know, another dad at Target buying. diapers. So, I lost I lost all those. things and and it was super super hard. Um, but then I just kind of found like, you know, I got to my purpose now is to. be a good husband and father. >> How long did that take you to find? >> Took a couple years. >> How did you find it? Most people never.

do. back to my uh. I met some guys in Denver and they. like it was this faith-based. business networking group very similar. to like YPO or YEO. Um, and this group. we all. we had these forums of like six or. whatever guys and you know there was.

this phrase called abiding which is like. remaining close and we were always like. talking about like well how much time. did you spend abiding today? And for us. that was like made tactical as in. reading the Bible, praying and like. writing down some thoughts, right? And I. that was the way for me. So it was. within um.

I want to say in like 11 or probably. 2012 and I had gotten out at the. beginning of 2010, right? And starting. in 2012, I started to. like read the Bible and then well pray. and read the Bible and just write a few. thoughts in my journal and like get [ __ ]. out of my head and onto paper. and then. just trying it for a month. I did it for. a month. A month became two. Two months.

became a year. And I've been doing it ever since. Wow. And as I was telling the other guy. earlier on, like I have I want to say it. was 2012 was the first year I read the. Bible cover to cover. And now I've done. it probably every year since just. reading the Bible all the way through. Now there was a year one year where I. just did the Old Testament and one year. where I just did the New Testament and.

went a little like deeper on it. But for. the mo like for the most part that is. the that's what has helped me the most. that time that I spend in the word and. been praying and journaling and then. when I finish that then I do my morning. workout part of which is a walk and I. pray half of that walk. So. um and. >> how do you pray? >> Yeah. What's that? >> How do you pray? >> I have like a.

>> like you're talking. >> Yeah. just in my conversation quietly in. my head like you know I. >> like I have a prayer that I do early. like you know about. >> faith and hope and love and trusting God. and you know thanking him for things and. then asking for forgiveness and then. embracing my weakness my brokenness and. my neediness like I do all that and then. when I go on a walking prayer I call it. I just start by thanking him for all the.

things so it starts. I'm like, "God, thank you for my. relationship with you. Please help make. me a better Christian. Help me grow. closer with you." Then I go, you know, in order, Leah, the kids, uh, my parents and siblings, my in-laws, my extended family, my friends, my. co-workers, uh, teammates past and present. Um I. thank God for you know our country and I. ask you know and I'm thanking and asking.

for help right start with start by. thanking and then I ask for help um. so that I will be better in all these. all these ways uh and then. I even you know I I thank him for the. church and then ask me to like help me. to be you know better. better brother of my brothers and. sisters in Christ. Thank him for my. country and you know I pray that more.

people would know and love you and have. a relationship with you and then be with. our leaders. Give them wisdom and. discernment. I have this whole it would. take a while and then I thank him for my. health. Uh and then for work and then I. ask him like show me what you would have. me do. Thank him for every dollar he's. given me for our house. just helped me. to be a better steward of that money and. a better steward of our house and then. even like hobbies and fitness and I just.

kind of go like while I'm walking or. rucking or whatever. >> and I just like I don't know I I leave. those things and I'm like I go to work. and I have so much energy until like. 2 or 3 p.m. I stop and I have a snack. and then I like I I have energy all day. until about you know 7 o'clock have. dinner and then I finally wind down. But. it gives I would say like to anyone. watching this like it sounds like a lot. but it is uh if it takes an hour to do.

that it's worth seven hours of energy. right it the whatever you think the. sacrifice is if I only can give them. let's say it's 10 minutes I I believe. that the payoff is more than three times. what I put towards it if that makes. sense. >> So. >> yeah makes sense. I've never thought of. it like that. It feels like a sacrifice. at the time, but it is.

the energy you put forth is pales in. comparison to, you know, the energy and. the strength you get from it. >> That's interesting. I'm going to have to. try that. >> Yeah, >> please do. >> I will. >> give it a month. Tell me how it goes. >> I will. Let's take a quick break.

Heat up.

here. See you later. building. We're high.

So we we're transitioning into your. civilian life. >> Yep. >> Coming from Dev Group. But one thing. that we forgot to cover is lead climber. >> Yeah. >> And how you got into that. >> So I mentioned like in the milit like on. a SEAL team as you know and for your. audience's sake.

everyone does a little bit of. everything. We all cross train. we can. shoot. Um, you know, we all know how to. navigate, we all know medicine, we all. know how to use a radio. Like, and then. there's specialties. We all can breach a. door, but there are breachers, right? Um, and a couple of different things. Like. there was a time I was a pointman which. is like a lead navigator slash you know. you had to be able to navigate the team. to a thing um to a target and then a.

sniper which everyone knows what that is. and then a lead climber. And a lead. climber would just be someone who would. you know as I mentioned on the boat like. on those shipboardings I would be the. first guy up a ladder. I could set the. ladder better and then get everyone else. up it. Um, in Iraq and Afghanistan, it. might be a a compound wall or something. like that. Um, usually it's not that, you know, it's not quite that epic. Um,

but I showed up at when I got in to. finish my training and I was at, you. know, gold team. Um, squadron and. me and the other new guy in my little. assault team, like my team leader looked. at us and the other guy was bigger and. he said, "You're going to be a. breacher." And then he looked at me and. he said, "How many pull-ups can you do?". And I was like, "I don't know, like 30. or whatever it was." He's like, "Well,

then you're going to be a climber." And. I had never climbed in my like besides. the the lead climbing I had done at Seal. Team 5 on the side of a ship. And so, long story short, I get. volunttoled into being a a lead climber. and we do a we do a climbing trip to um. uh Red Rocks, which is outside of Las. Vegas. So, I get four days of climbing.

on real rock at Red Rocks, followed by. four days of climbing real rock. somewhere else. So now I have, imagine. this, I have eight days of rock climbing. under my experience on like in a harness. on real rock. Like not counting like a. trip to a rock climbing wall, right? But. like real rock. and. like the group of lead climbers, the one.

guy decides we're going to go climb. LCAP, right? which is a. two 2500 foot wall. >> Holy [ __ ] And. and I'm like like what? And so long. story short, I end up. I find myself in. um Yuseite National Park and we're going. to climb Elcap. So,

the ninth time in my life that I've ever. even worn a sit harness is a training. day on LCAP. >> Holy [ __ ] The 10th time in my life that. I wear it on real rock. On real rock is. day one on LCAP. Day one. >> Wow. And we climb it in three days. Spending two nights on portal edges on. the side of it. Um the last night on the top.

um. finish the climb off the backside. You. kind of walk then repel walk. There's. like a down climb with couple couple. hundred foot repels and like LCAP the. way we did it cuz we're not like able to. climb it all in one day. So we have like hall bags with porta. ledges which are cs that you sleep on. interesting. >> Two gallons of water a day, all your. ropes, all your food, your mountainhouse.

meals, and like you're carrying each. each of us had 100 pounds of gear to. start. So you and you're not climbing. with all that. That's on a anchor, but. you would climb. and then you build an anchor and you. pull that stuff up. And so you climb a. few pitches each each day. You make it. as far as you can. Then you you get as. far as you safely can get with the light. still, you know, with the sun still out. And then you bust out this portal ledge,

which is a cot that you put together and. strap it to the side of the rock. And. the first night on uh LCAP, I think it was like 800 feet off the. ground or something like that, but I was. also six, it was steeper than vertical, so I was six foot away from the wall. So, it was at at a spot. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> Where there's an overhang and my the. rope hangs down and my cot is like so.

I'm like 800 feet off the ground and six. feet away from the wall and it's just. spinning in the wind and I'm sleeping on. this thing. And we finished that climb. and come around the backside. and sure like and I didn't know who this. guy was at the time but in the meadow I. think it's called Towalami Meadows or. whatever there is a young Alex Hanhold.

looking up at LCAP. and some of the guys were like climbing. dorks. Some of the guys at Gold were. into CL. I was I was not a climbing. dork. Like I didn't have the rock. climbing magazines and all the, you. know, all that junk. >> And they're like, "That's Alex Hnold. He's the next big deal, right?" Like, we. would have never known he was going to. climb Elcap without a rope, you know, a. few years later. Well, many years later.

But anyway, I went from no rock climbing. to a couple of rock like rock climbing. trips. This was like. so I like I found out I was going to be. a rock climber in 2006 and we climbed. LCAP in 07. So anyway, it was a pretty steep. >> [ __ ] dude. That's a steep learning. curve, but we finished that and you. know, one of the lead climbers, guy.

named Heath, Heath Robinson, who who. died in extortion. Um, and I obviously. knew all those guys really well. Um, Heath um mentioned like he was the. driving force behind LCAP and we. finished that climb and he's like, I'm. not going to do, you know, we're not. doing any more walls. We're going to go. do mountains. So then we went and did. Denali, which no one said we would ever. get it done. Uh but he sold the trip and. made it happen. So we did Denali. Uh and.

then. like the next one, um he handed it over. to Rob Rob Reeves who also died in. extortion. Uh and he led the trip for. Aen Kagwa. So, Denali being the highest. peak in North America, Aenkagwa. the highest peak in South America. Um, and that just kind of.

brings it full circle to, you know, now. climbing Kilamanjaro for a different. reason, but one of the seven summits. >> Damn, that is cool, man. >> Yeah, it was volunttoled into being a. lead climber. >> Right on. Damn. That is cool. >> Yeah. >> I uh. can't imagine sleeping on a cot that's. [ __ ] spinning around in the wind at. uh whatever thousands of feet you were. at. >> Yeah. Well, I mean that just it's so not.

like to me like climbing LCAP a wall. like that like that's scarier than. jumping out of an airplane for me. Like. I don't know why. Like it just you had. the one rope. >> Yeah. >> And your world is that one rope and. everything you do is that like bubble. like it's so consequential. You know. what I mean? Um. I'll I'll happily go do another like. mountain climbing thing like.

mountaineering. I I don't I don't see. myself climbing another. 2,000 ft rock wall. >> Holy [ __ ] Not after all the close. calls. >> Damn. >> So, >> how are you back to kind of your. transition? How are you integrating in. with the family after that pace? >> Well, it's so. I had gotten good at.

changing quickly from, you know, warrior. to husband and father. >> Really? >> Right. I could I could reintegrate very. quickly. And it was because like you had. to like at at the command I would go. there were no decompression stops back. then. You would come home like I in ' 06. I did a mission on the last night of a. deployment. Finished that mission. We. had gotten in a gunfight on that. mission. Finished that mission. Came.

back to the base. I didn't even have. time to wash my camies. Threw everything. in a bag. Didn't have time to clean my. gun or anything. Threw my my clothes in. a bag, my gun in a box. We flew out of that base, you know, without being too specific. Refueled in Ramstein, and I was in. Virginia Beach at a Panera holding my. kid 36 hours later.

>> Wow. >> After. >> Holy [ __ ]. >> Literally after a gunfight. And it was just kind of like it was kind. of a trip, right? I was like, but the. hardest part was when I never got to go. back. Like when I never got to turn on. warrior mode again. Um and then it was. like as far as reintegrating into the. family. I just, you know, had to, you know, have my quiet time in. the morning. um you know my time in.

prayer, my time in the word, little bit. of journaling and. >> you started that immediately? >> Probably you know one and a half to two. years after I got out. >> Okay. >> Um and then but the other thing is when. I immediately got out like. I also went. 18 months without having a paycheck. So I just didn't have time to think like. it was like this consulting or this.

doing that or like teaching this class. or I briefly did like adjunk instructor. with Midsouth or. security consulting or whatever. Um. eventually we you know bought a gun. range but like I just didn't have time. to wallow. >> Y. >> you know what I mean? >> Yep. And now I like sometimes we have. time to think and overthink and like. um. just kind of I guess wallow is the word.

you know brood on something and not just. like go out there and do it and I didn't. have that luxury like I like I got out. no college degree didn't have a job. lined up and. you know had three kids and groceries to. buy and And then you know then we had a. fourth kid. cuz we're smart. >> But then you became an entrepreneur. >> Yep. Yep. >> What was your first venture?

>> So at first did uh just some security. consulting and that led us to doing some. present corporate presentations. Um, and that kind of segueed into, you know, we were teaching this guy how to shoot. and we took him to a gun range in Denver. and they wouldn't let us rapid fire and. they wouldn't let us draw from a. holster. And as you and I know, like if you're. going to if you're going to shoot a gun. for self-defense,

you need to know how to draw from a. holster. And you might need to shoot. more than one shot every five seconds. So, we were like, "This is no way to. train." And he was just like, he's very. wealthy guy and awesome business mentor. of ours from from Denver, ended up being. one of our investors. He just said, "Well, why don't you guys raise money. and buy a gun range? Like, if this if. you can't train correctly here, and at. the time, Denver had like two, maybe.

three gun ranges. They all sucked.". um he's like, "Why don't you just either. build one or make one?" So, you know, the there was a there was a problem to. solve and he helped us find an answer. So, we actually found some people. We. raised money, bought a gun range and. owned and ran a a a gun range and it. was, you know, firearms training and. then um a gun store and then lanes for. rent. kind of a a three-legged stool,

right? Um and I did that we did that for. a while together. Um me and my business. partner and um. after a few years um. stepped down from the day-to-day and. then I went and ran a u a fitness. organization called Strong First. um most notably.

known for their like kettle bell. training. Uh and this was Pavl's. company. Um. and he's the guy who brought who. introduced the kettle bell to the west. >> So he's the reason there's a kettle bell. in every gym now. >> Right on. >> So I had met him at Devgroup because. when you're at Devgroup, you bring in. the experts for everything. and we. brought him in to teach us how to kettle. bell once and uh I stayed in touch with. him. Um.

and I had used I had used the kettle. bell like. to help get me ready for like. deployments and for Denali and Aken. Kagwa and all like everything, right? I. combine like kettle bell with a little. bit of body weight and cardio. I still. do it to this day, right? And um so I'. I'm a believer of it. And then he was. asking me to help him find his next CEO.

And I was in that at that point I was in. that like habit of you know reading the. Bible, praying and then taking a then I. had added a lunchtime walk with a little. quick prayer. So I'm on my lunchtime. walk with a prayer and like I just heard. God say, "Well, you should apply for the. job working for Pavle.". And then I went and did that for about. three years and I got to uh. that was a a great job. Um and I was you. know really was blessing to work with.

and for Pavle and I had. you know the gun range I had we had. anywhere from 40 to 50 employees at the. peak. Um, but I was also like my business. partner and I like we, you know, we just. like it needed one captain. That that. ship needed one captain. And then um. also I just felt like I'm always trapped. to this facility. Like I can't like if I. go on vacation, I can't work from.

vacation. You know what I mean? Mhm. >> And then I started working for Strong. First and I was working remotely back in. 2014 before that was a thing cuz our our. team, our US team was. everywhere from Pittsburgh to Venice. Beach and everywhere in between. And. then our global team, we had instructors. in. 30ome countries. We were doing events in. we had 4,000 instructors in 30ome.

countries doing events on almost. >> almost every continent not Antarctica. Um. and basically I worked at the I I led. the headquarters group and like a senior. group of instructors and we were having. licensing the material to be taught in. other countries and continents and stuff. like that. So and I was there was no. Zoom back then. And it was called go to. meeting and there was you know obviously. cell phones but like very early like uh.

you know very good experience for me. kind of leading a geographically. distributed team. um did that for three years and then I. went. I went to work for I had helped the NRA. rewrite some of its concealed carry. curriculum. um just as a one of my side gigs and in. so doing I was talking to one of the.

leaders there and he basically hired me. to run NAS education and training. So, I left the fitness organization and. then. went to work for NRA headquarters and I. was living in Denver, but like I had to. commute to, you know, to Fairfax via. Dulles. >> Oh [ __ ]. >> Yeah. So, that was going I did that for three. years. Um.

was going okay. I mean, it wasn't. without its drama, right? Just the. politics of it all. And I was working on. the ops side like it's training. It. should be free from. >> bureaucracy. >> Not free from bure bure but free from. politics. >> Yeah. >> But like there was a lot of politics. there just because it attracts. politicians. You know what I mean? Also. I was like never going to I was never. going to play the game the way it.

needed. I was only going to do the job, not play the game. So I was kind of. doomed. Um, and if I was gonna like to do the job. the way it needed to be done, like at. some point I needed to move there. And we were living in Denver and I. wasn't going to move my family to. Virginia. Like, yeah, I we've I didn't. want to go back, right? And I loved. Denver. um up until.

co um but I I loved what I, you know, I. loved that job. I enjoyed it, but um you. know it was time to move on. So I did. that until 2020. And then in 2020, I just started to do. consulting. Um and that kind of bounced. me around a little bit. Again, like when. you get out, you just find a way or you. make one. >> Um and we're good at, >> you know, hustling and learning and. problem solving and communicating and.

all those all those skills. Um, and I have since, you know, I worked at. a a beverage company for a while. >> I saw that. >> Uh, we had a a CBD gummy, we had a CBD. drink, we had a bottled water, we had an. energy drink. Um, then I was a consultant. I worked at an. energy company um that does uh like. natural gas fired plants and like solar. and even battery uh plants. um just.

helping with uh like culture and ops and. then I was even helping some of the. developers there um just as a like not a. lead developer but I would help lead. developers. >> write the resume. >> it's just well it's just like you know. find a way or make one right uh which is. >> you know eventually um I I had also. always been doing a lot of speaking it's.

always been a passion of mine. Um, and I started doing that in 2012. And there have been years where I've. done like 10 or 12 events and there's. years when I've done like two or three. But I just enjoy. just sharing my story and then like I. have the 12 years in, but then now it's. like 14 or more. Well, now 15 out. >> Yeah. Um, and I kind of merge the hey this worked.

in the teams. doesn't work out here. I've seen I have. seen how different they are and not. everything is the same, right? >> And I found ways to like kind of tie in. things that work in the teams in the. sealed teams and work on the outside and. mostly that's what I what I talk about. when I speak. Um, and it's typically. like elite teams, um, aspects of a of an. elite team or.

how a small team or an outnumbered team. can get big results or it's basic. leadership or teamwork. Um, and that's. on the corporate side. And then once in. a while I get an opportunity to go just. speak with a a sports team or a couple. of weeks ago uh like a big uh men's. ministry group. So that's kind of the. the side gig now. >> Right on. Men's ministry group. That's. the side gig. >> No. Speaking side gig.

>> Day job. I have a a great job working. for uh it's called Golden Rod Companies. and they are a real estate um I would. say real estate development and. investment organization company in. Omaha. They have offices. Let's see. We have offices in Atlanta. and Dallas and Omaha and then um I think. some in Tulsa and opening new spots. But. he basically it's a founder-ledd.

organization. Um he has a family office. which we would call it a headquarters. group in in our vernacular. So under his. headquarters group there are. let's say six portfolio companies. separate companies all doing different. things uh but they all fit within the. real estate you know world right um and. I don't know much about real estate.

investment or development or legal or. finance or insurance or like even has. construction companies those all those. things are happening I'm just helping. standardize. operations and culture. So I don't do. any of the things they do, right? I just. help standardize the culture and the. ops, you know, think of that as a. horizontal going across those verticals. >> Right on. >> So, which is a good fit when you. have a side gig of also doing speaking.

gigs because you're talking mostly about. culture and teamwork and building like. building those things. Yeah. Um, so fits. pretty nicely. what uh I mean. as you know. a lot of guys struggle with finding the. next purpose, the next thing you know. what what what kind of advice do you. have for. >> the next generation who's separating. right now getting out looking for the. next thing. that nothing's going to measure up to.

what they did before. Yeah man, the first thing I would say is. I think it's if you have the and I. didn't have this I didn't have this. luxury. but if you have like it is if you can. take a beat take a minute and just get. that could be a month could be two. months or like just have a little bit of.

time to like unwrap, right? Uh I didn't. get that. Um but then the next thing I. would say is like your first job getting. out of the military might not be your. ultimate thing. Like just take a base. hit. You can't like. >> it's a good point. >> Get the get the base hit. And. you know Jordan Peterson. had this he had this thing about having. an aim, right? where you have an aim.

You have something you're aiming at and. it might be on top of this hill and. you're walking towards that. But as you. as you get higher towards it, like your. aperture opens and like. you see more and you or you realize. like, oh, I don't that's not my goal. anymore. But because you took a step for like. you're moving towards it. If you hadn't have moved towards it, you. would have been down here still planning. about it. Yep. >> Right. And I think like too many people.

are stuck down here planning about like. what to do next. Like find that like. base hit. It it does not have to be like. >> the end all be all. >> No. But you're on your way towards it. Like a you'll either get there and. realize that's not what I want to do or. b like something else some opportunity. will open in route, right? like the like. the my job now. I I went and met with.

the the founder of this company and the. CFO. and I was just going there to think I. was interviewing to do another speaking. gig. Are you and then uh he just asked. well would you come help us with our you. know our culture and our operations. You just don't know right. Uh and I I. enjoy doing that sort of thing. It fits. well with like it fits well for me with. doing my, you know, the speaking that I.

do about teamwork and leadership and. elite performance and all that. So, you. know, um you just you just don't know. I. I would say like to keep it simple like. take a break that's fine. Don't make it. too long and then get a base hit. >> Good advice. >> Yeah, >> good advice. You know, at the beginning. of the interview, you had mentioned. something about.

I don't know a better way to say it, but. you had mentioned something about that. the service the service your time in the. SE teams, your time at development group. was for selfish reasons. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> And that you wanted to circle back on. that. I was curious where you were going. with that. I think I know, but I'm I'm. curious. >> Yeah, it all ch like so I joined, you. know, chip on my shoulder. I'm gonna. prove people wrong. I can do it. You. know, we all and we all kind of had.

that. I'm assuming like I want to go. prove, you know, this is like that's one. of the reasons I did it. It's supposed. to be the hardest training in the. military, right? Um. and then um. you know 9/11 happened and I found. myself you know. in a position to you know. do something about it, right? Uh or just. to be in a position to like serve my.

country. So it changed from. that selfish pursuit to that more like. pursuit of service and sacrifice. >> Um which I think happens a lot. >> Yep. Yep. Well, Eric, we're wrapping up the. interview. >> Cool. >> You want to end this thing with a. prayer? >> Yeah, let's do it. >> Let's do it. You want to lead it? >> Sure. >> All right.

God, I just thank you for uh this. opportunity today. Uh I pray that uh you. would continue to watch over and bless. Shawn and his family and his team and. all of the Shawn Ryan show. Continue to. help make help them make the impact they. are. Um not just for their guests, but. for all of the people that get to watch. this show, Lord. Uh, and I pray that.

I pray that um the things said here in. this building that you have blessed uh. would be pleasing to you and would make. an impact for your kingdom. In Jesus. name we pray. Amen. >> Amen. >> Good. >> It was an honor, man. >> Yeah. No, thank you, bro. >> Thank you. >> Hopefully I wasn't rambling too long. >> No, it was awesome. It was awesome. Let's go blow some [ __ ] up. >> Yeah.

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