Dr. John Delony - America's Mental Health Crisis | SRS #035

Hey, how's everybody doing? Got an. important episode coming up. Got Dr. John Delani. We're going to talk all. about the mental health crisis that's. going on here in the US, what's causing. it, maybe a little bit about what might fix. it, and what we can do as parents to. make sure that this doesn't continue. Anyways, hope you all enjoy the episode. Please head over to iTunes,

leave us a review, and Spotify, too. Love you all. Again, this is a very. important episode. I hope you all get a. lot out of it. Enjoy the show. See you soon. Cheers. One last thing, just one last thing. If. we want to get ahead of this thing, there's one thing everybody can do. that's real simple. Just be a nice person. inject good into. this world and I promise eventually it's.

gonna come back to you. Anyways, love. you all. Be kind. That's it. Go Cards. Cheers. [Music]. Heat. Heat. [Music].

[Music].

[Music]. Heat. Heat. [Music]. John Deloney, welcome to the show, man. Thanks, Sean. I appreciate you coming. No, I I appreciate your hospitality. This setup's it's beautiful set, man.

It's awesome. Thank you. So, I've been watching your. stuff and you got some really amazing. content on your channel. some deep deep. deep. stuff that people are open up and about. and um and man, you handle that amazing. No, I appreciate that. But um so you're a psychologist, you. work over at Ramsay Solutions, you're an. author, you just came out with a new. book. Yeah. And so I want you here to talk about the.

mental health crisis that's going on in. the country. It's all over the news. And. uh I just got some stats and stuff, but. crime's up, suicides up, addictions up, the 2020 divorce rate went through the. roof. I just saw on ABC this morning. that depression is up 135% since 2013. Prescriptions are up both for or not. just prescriptions, but prescriptions.

and uh just addiction, street addictions. up. I just saw that. 65 million people, that's one in five. people in the US are on SSRIs. And I don't know about you, but me. personally, I just see I've seen a lot. of change. in going out in public since 2020. I. feel like when I go out, everybody's. anxiety is through the roof. It seems. like everybody's just trying to.

avoid each other and and nobody's really. helping each other these days. It seems. everybody's just avoiding each other. Get out of my way. They're only worried. about themselves. And uh it also seems. like the past 20, 30 years there's been. a major decline in just overall. happiness. Yeah. And uh so I'd like to talk to you about. all that kind of stuff. Let's do it, man. But first, everybody gets a present. Sorry, I'm. fresh out of boxes, but uh you know,

like we were talking about this off off. air. Like I have a pathological. addiction to this, man. And you I I got. some a few months ago and I was sober. 60 days off gummy candies. Dude, I. hammered this bag, man. So good. These. are so good, man. Thank you. You're welcome. But uh kind of want to hold them the. whole the whole time. Go ahead. No, whatever you want to do, man. Oh, man. But, um, usually I ask I give Patreon a.

question. I Patreon, they're my top. supporters. Uh, that's the re they're. the reason I'm sitting here. They're the. reason you're sitting here. And, uh, I. always give them. a question to ask. But, I've worked in. most of their questions into the actual. episode uh that I'm going to that we're. going to go through. And um so I have a. personal question for you cuz it doesn't. fit the interview. So watching your. channel and kind of researching a little. bit about all those topics and you you.

take phone calls on your channel and. people are opening up about. all kinds of things that most people. don't open up to in public, especially. on a YouTube channel. People cheating on. their significant others, sexless. marriages, a lot of stuff that most people keep in. the closet. Yeah. And um. so when I was watching that, it reminded. me. of a lot of the things that I deal with. in my personal business. And um.

when I was watching it, I was like, man, this guy probably gets emails, email. after email after email of of. I don't I don't want to I want to tread. lightly here, but you know, Saabb. stories, victimization, you know, they want help. They want you. to talk to them. And I'm it's an. assumption, but I'm assuming you don't. have time to. reach everyone. Yeah. And because the content that we.

put out on this show, especially when. I'm interviewing the the veteran. operator warfighter types and they're. opening up about personal experiences. that they deal with, we get thousands of. emails. and all those emails get read, but they don't get answered. and it would be impossible for me to. answer all those emails. um and and still have a functioning. family and business. But it does create. a lot of guilt that I can't reach all. those people.

And so how do you deal with that as a. psychologist? Um so one bit of housekeeping in the in. the mental health hierarchy there's. psychiatrists which are medical doctors. and then psychologists and then there's. the rest of us. So I'm actually a. trained counselor just as a psychologist. would be like what? So it' be a thing. Um, so. circle back. Uh, ask me that again.

Okay. So, oh, I got I got Shane. So, I have come I I have a bad habit of. running in and trying to help people. with things that they haven't invited me. in to help. And I've also had a bad. habit of treating people like car. engines over the years. like, "Oh, you. have you're broken and I can fix you.". And what I've come to find out that over. time, most people need someone to listen. to them. And so often that email firing. off, they've just taken their first step.

into saying something out loud or. putting something on paper. And just the. fact that I was there to receive that, that they felt safe enough, they. actually trust some stranger with a with. a show or a podcast enough to reach out, that starts a ball rolling down the hill. for them. And so if somebody says, "Can. you please help me?" That's a different. conversation, right? But on the whole, yeah, we get th I mean, we get so many. emails and they're beautiful stories, their their sob stories, their victimiz. whatever the story is. often it's.

somebody saying it out loud for the. first time or putting on on paper. getting out of their body out of their. head on something for the first time. So. I say that is a good thing, right? Yeah. When it comes to the other stuff, it's like that old it's the old uh. airline thing, man. I got to make sure. I'm well if I'm going to help anybody. else, right? If I'm going to be a good. dad, I'm going to be a good husband, I'm. going to be a good community member, I'm. going to be a good like helping somebody. who's suicidal, right? Whatever the. thing is. And so I know I can't go help. everybody do everything. And so not.

responding to some of these things or. sending them to other people is a part. of me making sure it's like me lifting. weights. It's a part of me staying whole. so that I can go do the hard work. And I. my ego for a long time was built on how. many people I could respond to. Mhm. And that the the diminishing returns. come back pretty fast. Pretty hard. Yeah. I can. So the greatest gift I give people is to. not It took me a long time. Did it. years. Yeah. And it also took um.

it took me I have some major trust. issues, man. My dad was a homicide. detective and a SWAT guy. Like I grew up. thinking like there's something behind. the thing, right? Or not thinking. knowing there's something behind the. thing. I have trust issues. Always have. And it took me being married a long time. before I decided I chose to trust my. wife enough that she says, "Hey, they're. getting more of your attention than we. are." and I know enough to know that. untethers me from everything and then. I'll spiral out, right? So, they get. first fruits so that I can go be of.

service to other people. Okay, does that make sense? But yeah, it. took me a long time because I attached. my ego to how many people I could help. and um which meant I was bringing my. wrenches and hammers and screwdrivers to. other people's problems if they didn't. even ask me to, right? And suddenly I was tinkering away on. engines that I didn't really know what I. was doing. I can I can relate to that. But uh yeah, well thank you cuz I need I struggle. with that a lot. I struggle with that a. lot. Every time I open the email box and. I see all of and they're heavy, you.

know, suicide, all kinds of stuff. And uh. the only ones I will get directly. involved in 100% of the time is someone. tells me they're hurting kids or kids. are being hurt, child abuse and elder. abuse, right? Or if somebody says, "I. think I'm I'm I think I'm out." Right. Well, I would love to ask you about that. then. Seriously, how do you when. somebody does that and I haven't had the. kids thing yet, but uh I thought I had a. lot of people contemplating suicide. How.

do you how do you respond to that email? If it's in my immediate circle, if it's. somebody. if it's somebody I'm talking to in. person, um one of the big misconceptions. about suicide, someone's thinking about. hurting themselves, is if I ask them, I. don't want to put that thought in their. head. I don't want to give them the. idea. Dude, if you're if you're thinking about. killing yourself, somebody asking you. about it is like letting the the. pressure valve off, right? It's not. There's not somebody who's struggling. and you're like, "Are you going to kill.

yourself?" Like, I never thought of. that, man. Now, it's not how that works. And so, if it's somebody I'm on the. phone with, if it's somebody in my. immediate circle or somebody I work with. or a friend of mine, I'll before any. other question, I will say, "Are you. thinking about killing yourself? Are you. thinking about hurting yourself?" I go. directly into that conversation and. we're going to reverse engineer anything. after that. But I need to know where you. are. You got a plan, you got a gun, have you been practicing this thing? Have you thought this through? Are you. thinking about hurting yourself? Right? And we're going to gauge that response. from there. If it's somebody who's.

emailing me, um, often I will let them. know, I'm calling 911 in your area, okay? And I'm going to pass this off to your. local authorities cuz I can't be. everywhere, right? Um, and I also know. that the local authorities can't always, but I'm going to do what I can, right? And sometimes people are lobbing. grenades at me, right? And they do the. same thing to you. Um, either grenades. or lifelines, whatever you want to call. it, but I can't deal with all that, right? But I'm going to call the local. authorities. I'm going to call local. police. Um, every every community has a. local hotline. So, if someone says, you. know, from Louisville, Kentucky, I'm.

going to call Louisville, Kentucky, and. say, I just got this email. Someone says. they're going to hurt themselves. Local. vet in the area. You may want to check. them out. and then I'm going to pass. that on to the people who know what. they're doing in that area. Okay. Yeah. It's just good to bounce, you know, things off of, uh, people and. and I feel like. our inboxes are probably very common. Yeah. Yes. A lot of similarities. But um moving on, I kind of broke up what I think is going. on in the country, why there's a mental. health decline, and uh anything that you.

think of while we're having these. conversations, please chime in cuz I'm. just going off of what I hear on the. media. But I've kind of broken it up. into a couple different categories. One. being social media, one being the. division of the country/politics. definitely plays a role in it. I think. co. uh when 2020 happened all the way up. until now a lot of things started. happening at home a lot of stuff. happening in the schools and and if that. played a major effect uh and what's.

going on the media seems to be very. toxic nowadays and uh and then addiction. you know the fentanyl crisis is going on. people are being prescribed I mean it. seems like. that's just the quick fix madness you. Oh, it's just Yeah. Take this. Take. this. Take this. So, I'd like to hit. each of these. I'd love them. You have any in particular you want to. start with? Man, there it's a big braided. mess. So, we can go where you want to go.

there. Let's start with Let's start with social. media. Okay. You always hear everybody, I spend too. much time on the phone. I'm glued to my phone all day. People. are comparing themselves to the the the. the. everybody else. extremely good-looking influencers that. are out there. like Sean Ryan. Yeah. And uh and and everything looks, money, happiness. I personally think everything.

on social media is [ __ ] and fake, but um but a lot of people think the. shit's real. Yeah. So, let's dive in there. Let's go into. social media. I earlier on when you were. rattling off some of those statistics, so many of those things go back to 2013, 2012, 2014. So there's a growing body of. evidence that says we can't tease apart. the. exact mechanism by which social media is. hurting us. What we can do is say up. until 2010, 2011, 2012, people were.

plugging along and then all of a sudden. there's a swan dive of mental health and. that's when these things came online in. a in a mass way, right? They were they. were fumbling around for the decade or. two before that. But this is when. everybody started walking around with. smartphone. Everybody was on these these. services and things like that. I tend to. take a broader view, step back 30,000. feet and look at the whole situation. And what I know is our bodies, our. human, like the machine that we walk. around in is co-regulated. You and I sit.

here long enough and our breathing will. start to sink up a little bit. We will. become like our bodies are designed for. that. We're designed to be in tribes of. groups of people towards a common. purpose. That's what we do. And in short. order, we outsourced all interactions to. these boxes, to these platforms to a very unnatural. state of being for ourselves. You could. not talk to somebody. without being in the room with them, right? From all of human history until.

right now. And then think how many conversations we. have with other people in our head, but. we never utter words. And our bodies are. paying a price. And so the way I like to. to to. make it to to distill it all down into. simple simple language, I can text my wife all day long, I love. you. I love you. I love you. I'm giving. her frontal lobe data. I am not giving. her body the sense that she is safe and. loved. 70 80 90% of communication is.

non-verbal. We've stripped all that out. and we've just said, "When will you be. where? I'll be there.". That's a that's a one part of your brain. processes that data. The other part of. the body is like we're not connected. We're not connected. We're not. connected. And when your body finds. itself alone, lonely by yourself, or. think about it, when you're if you as a. SEAL, you land and you turn left and you. start running down a mile and you turn. back and realize your team went right, you're probably not going to make it. out, right? Or you're going to have to.

do some Right. 10,000 years ago, you. wake up in the morning, your tribe has. left you. You're probably going to die. of exposure. You're going to get eaten. by something. You're going to run out of. water. So, our bodies are designed to be. in connection. And if it's out of. connection, it will sound the alarms. And that, dude, that's what anxiety is. That's what OCD. Those are alarm systems. going off. And now we've created an. entire industry to shut the alarms off, to quiet the alarms. That's like, man, if your house is on fire and your smoke. alarm's going off, if you get a ladder. and climb up and pull the batteries out,

you stop the alarm, man. Congratulations. Your house is still on. fire, right? And so I think and. overnight we have changed the way we. interact and our bodies are rattling at. the seams. And so then you throw in all. of the photos and the um you know you. and I were going to school when we were. kids. Someone would say like you suck. Two weeks later I could edge that off. Now I got on my phone. I can just read. it over and over and over. Or I can see. 14 people who thumbs up it and four 10. of them are trolls. I don't even know.

But it starts to feel like the whole. world's right. And these machines are. curating what they give me, right? And. they're based off that uh slot machine. technology where I'm going to hold what. he said. I'm going to hold it. I'll give. it to you now. I'll hold it. I'll hold. it. Hold it. Give it to you now. And so, dude, it's just hack the system, man. And so, I really care less about the. individual mechanics. I'll leave that to. my academic colleagues to it's this or. this. What I know is it's killing us. And I got to I've got to be intentional. about making other paths in my life,

right? What about I mean there's just so much. that goes into social media that I I. think is toxic and and that the. it's it's it's insanity. Yeah. It's insanity. Here's how insane it is. I do this for a living. Mhm. I had no social media before I took this. current job. None. So I didn't have. social media until 2020. Right. You haven't had anything since 2020? None.

And then I got on it. And then about six. or seven or eight months in, I was in my. closet in my bedroom when my kids were. banging around outside scrolling. Instagram. Oh wow. And I've taught about it. I know the. neuroscience about it. I've met with. professionals all over the country from. Harvard to little faith-based univer. Like I've been everywhere. I know. And I. remember looking up and I started. laughing. I was like, it got me. Like. here I am hiding from my family because. this little box was making me feel.

better about who I am than they were. Because you know what I don't know how. to do? I don't know how to parent a. six-year-old girl. That's what I got. I'm I'm I'm learning as I go. I got a 12-year-old son and I got a lot. of built-in stuff here and he's facing a. different world than I fa Right. So, but man, that social just keeps telling. me, "You're doing great. You're doing. great. You're doing great." You know. what I mean? And so it's Yeah. It got. me, too. And that's when I realized this. is they're good. They're good. Yeah. I. mean, on on the contrary though, you can. be not great. You It's not always.

reinforcing that you're great. I mean, you got the the the the smear campaigns. I mean, I went through my own smear. campaign. Did they got what they do? It's a long story. And uh yeah, I don't. want to go into it, but it was a couple. years ago and there was a tiff with. another person that I had collaborated. with, and he started this big social. media campaign. And I mean, and the only. reason I'm bringing that up is because. that affected me. And I'm a I'm a at the. time mid30s, late30s, seal,

former SEAL, former CIA guide, seen it. all. I thought in this stupid ass social. media campaign. that lasted for about 6 months is. ruining my day. And I felt like the. walls were closing in on me. You know, it did. It brought a lot of. stress. And it's those little pirate boats. though, right? Yeah. Y. it's not a big ship coming cuz you're We. know how to handle that. We know how to handle a frontal assault. It's those 14 single engine boats that.

are coming and just filling the bottom. of the hall up with with bullets and. then taking off, right? And so slow solely they can take. over the whole ship. just with a few boats, man. And you. don't see it's hard to it's hard to see. it coming. Well, I mean I I guess where I'm going. is I think this is creating a lot of I. mean I can handle it. You know, it was stressful, but I can. handle it. But, you know, a 14-year-old. girl who exposed herself to somebody. online and confidence. and now that photo's gone viral.

and. then that young girl kills herself. because she's humiliated. How in in. social media day, people are like, "Yeah, just get off your phone." It's. not that it's not that easy, you know? I. mean, my business, for example, is run off social media. Mine is too, right? And that's that's. the paradox I find myself in is. um it pays my bills, right? And I have. to be honest about it's doing good. It's. connecting people. It's it's it's a GPS. It's pointing people to the right place,

right? And it's encouraging people. Here's a way to walk through life. Here's some stories. Here's some. different people who are lighouses in a. in a world of smoke. Okay, I can when I go home with my. family, I can do something a little bit. different, right? Here's a way to have a. different conversation. I never had that. thought before. I'm going to go take. that thought and with the five guys I. meet with once a week that we have. breakfast with and just talk crap and. I'm going to bring this thought up. there. Right? So, it's it's taking this. stuff out of the imaginary world and. putting into the real world. There has. to be some sort of balance there and I.

think we're figuring as we go. I also. think and this is I didn't realize this. is a controversial statement. Um I grew. up around guns. I grew up around them, right? My like I said, my dad was a. homicide gun and a SWAT guy. They were. just they. and they were so everywhere that I. understood at a tiny age. the respect you have for them and the. tools and the like the like it never. occurred to me to play with right cuz I. I was so ingrained and taught. I've.

passed that along to my 12-year-old son. and um to a lesser extent to my. six-year-old daughter, right? are going. to know what this is. And I'm not I'm. not ever going to leave it out cuz there. he's 12. And in that same way, I'm an. adult and I know how the social media. works. And I know that there's. neuroscientists teamed up with AI, teamed up with people trying to make. money, which that's their job. Good for. them. Uh it's my job as a parent to protect. the mind of my 12-year-old and my. six-year-old. Yeah. And so I'm not going to give them.

a I'm not going to hand them a loaded. gun and say make good choices cuz. they're 12, right? Not going to hand. them a cell phone that you don't. understand the predatory nature of this. thing. Your development, you don't. understand the people um are going to lo. you think that guy actually doesn't like. you. That guy doesn't even know you. He's not even this country and he's. going to bomb you, right? Or he's going. to take snapshots of you and use them. later. Or that girl who you are so in. love with at 16, you're not. And I I. remember there. I was there. I I. remember it. But you're going to say.

things in black and white and it's going. to be recorded or you're going to take. pictures of things in black and it's. going to be there forever. My job is to. make sure that you don't do that. And so. as parents, we have to re um reinvest. ourselves in our kids' lives. And I'm. It's hard. My son and I have had some. hard conversations, some weeping. conversations. Some dad, you're you're. making me the weird kid conversations. Yeah. Um it's tough. It's real tough. What? So, how do what is a I mean, you got to. be worried about it. You got a. six-year-old daughter, 12-year-old son.

What What does that What does an example. of a conversation look like when your. kid when your son comes home and all his. friends have. Instagram and he wants to be on there? I. I don't know if he's on there. No, he's not. So, um I'll tell you about. a real life conversation we had, man. Um. he missed a couple of birthday parties. And for an 11 and 12year-old, that's. that's your world, right? That's That's. the disco, right? That's that's the. And he didn't he didn't and I asked him. like, "Why didn't you go to birthday. parties, man?".

He said, "I didn't get invited." Well, my first thought is like, "Well, I'm. going to go fight that 12-year-old who. didn't invite you." That's my first. thought, right? I'm going to take my. kid. And then I thought, "Oh, no. Is it. the weird kid? Is he not wearing. deodorant or something?" Comes find he. didn't know because they're just texting. each other or they're DMing each other. In fifth grade, he was the only kid. without a phone in his class. fifth. grade. Fifth grade without a cell phone to the. internet, man. And so I'm I'm these. again, we're putting 10-year-olds in an. adult world, man. And there's a reason.

why we say you got to be this old to. drive and this old to buy beer and this. old to buy lottery tickets, this old to. buy guns. I can't put that 10-year-old. in that world, right? And that's what. we're doing. And so he said, and he was right. He. said, "Dad, you've taken away my ability. to communicate with my friends, and you. even had a phone on the wall that had. that curly cord. They could y'all could. call each other." And he looked at me, said, "I got nothing." And I said, "That's actually fair. That's actually. honest, and that's true, and that's. fair. So, as your dad, I got to figure. out another avenue." And I ended up. reaching out to some parents saying,

"Hey, I'm chose to take this phone away. from my kid. If y'all are going to have. birthday parties, let me know." And. they're like, "Great." And it's been it. was me reaching out to parents and dude, it was awkward. It was weird because. it's also me judging them, too. Like, y'all give your kids phones? I don't. Can you not? Can you let me know? Dude, they've been amazing. They've been. awesome. And now when kids come to our. house, every one of them hands a phone. to my wife. And they relish that time. without it. They head off into the. woods. We live on some acres. They head. off into the woods and they're catching. frogs and creeks and they're creating. all kinds of tree forts and throwing.

making swords and spears and. what I think 12 and 13 and 14y old boys. should be doing out in the woods, right? Um, but they turn their phones in and. they don't think twice about it. And so. there's some of that. I will also say. this. I knew it was bad and I knew there. was challenges. I finally said, "Bring. me up a like tell me a Tik Tok video. everybody's watching. Like tell me what. it is." And he named it. Bro, it was. I've you and I have talked offline. I've. spent my career in the sewer with.

people. I've seen stuff. I've had to go. through crazy things, cleaned up gnarly. messes, had to do IT investigations. you. know what you see when you go through. some of those like I've been there. This was a video that quote unquote. everyone's watching millions of views. and it was a super provocative. 13-year-old girl dancing and to the. point that I told my wife get that trash. off and it's not cuz I'm approved. It's. because that's a child man and this is. what everyone on TikTok you know what I.

mean and he doesn't know what's. happening to his brain by watching that. trash all day long. that sweet girl. who's getting parents are getting paid. off. The whole thing is just insane to. me, right? And so at the end of the day, I can't control that. What I can control. is what goes into my son's mind and. that's on me. And if I get to be he gets. to be 18 or whatever and he grabs the. phone, he leaves my house and he says, "Screw you, dad. You I'll live with. that." You know what I mean? Like I I'll. make that trade right now.

Shocking scenes of desperation and chaos. in Afghanistan are being seen around the. world. Can't believe my eyes, says the. man who shot this video of people. clinging to an American cargo jet as it. takes off. Machine gun fire could be. heard as thousands of panic-stricken. Afghans stormed the airport. For special forces or Green Berets, as.

our nickname calls it, our our specialty. is irregular warfare, unconventional. warfare, where we work with indigenous. people to help them stand up on their. own and fight against oppression. When that pull out started, I had. friends sending me videos of what they. were doing to our commandos. There must. have been 20 commandos lined up. Yeah. You know, hands behind their back and. they were just putting one round in the.

back of every one of their heads just. going down the line. It looked like. Yep. It looked like [ __ ] World War II. the call that I knew was coming. from Nazam. And he said, "Sir, they're. they're looking at my window right now.". I said to him something to the effect. of, "Look, you're not going to die. alone. You're not going to die at all.

Um, we're going to get you out, man. You're going to get across that city. You're going to get through the crowd. You're going to get past the Taliban. You're going to get past the Marines. [Music]. Why? Why does this kid have to die? Like, it's just not right. And and. everything in my life in that war came. down to him. If we don't get him in on. the inside of that Taliban ring, they're. going to check his credentials and he's. dead.

Last question on social media. I mean. because. we got semi we we have a lot of. crossover I think in what we do being a. personality over a Ramsay. Yeah. How do you how do you manage your social. media. and your family and I mean how do you. how do you. how do you manage yourself on there? Do. you manage your own account? Yeah, I've.

got somebody who helps me do stuff. But. um but yeah, I I'll post my own. Um one. of my rules is you can't. nobody can post something that hadn't. come out of my mouth, right? So I don't. want some content writer speaking on my. behalf. I don't like that. Um I use Instagram and they pull I don't. even know how to log into the Facebook. account and stuff. So it's all automated. and they send it on that way. Um the. rules I have for myself are number one, I've got my social media on a separate. phone. Okay? And so, um, it's a work tool and I.

think of it as like a table saw. I don't. carry that with me into a restaurant. It's a work tool that I use for work for. engaging with people. And um, so it's on. a number one, it's on a separate device. so that I'm not just sitting there doing. this all day. I have to think about taking it with me. And then I got, you know, if I'm going. to go get my oil changed or something, I'm going to be sitting somewhere for an. hour. I probably should take a book, man. Take a book and read it. But I also. might do this and get some work done. So. that's number one. Number two, I'm not. great, man. Like, I'm really not great.

I find myself staring at that stupid. thing sometimes or trying to to log back. in. And so, my wife and I have had some. direct conversations and this sounds. lame, but I give her permission. Please. call this out. because she says, "I can see I know. something's coming two weeks down the. road when I see you just start to do. this." Cuz usually I start to do this. when work's hard, when I'm stressed out, when I'm worried about money, when I'm. trying to figure this out. This just. becomes, right? It just becomes a way to. make to feel better for a second. And.

she says, "This is usually a like a. weather map or a weather report of. something coming down the road. So, I'm. going to put that thing down and I want. you to go for a walk with the kids. I. want you to go lift weights down the. gym. I want you to go do something to. head off wherever we're all headed cuz. wherever you go, we all go with you, man." And that's been a that's been a. gift. Interesting. I've had to I've had to outsource it, right? Yeah. And I wish I could say I. was tougher and like just suck it up. It's part of my job and I've had to. outsource it. That's awesome. I've abandoned my. account.

Yeah. I just I can't do it, you know? I. don't It's hard to trust somebody. to run your account because. I mean, old friends, old colleagues send. inappropriate [ __ ] sometimes. I don't. need, you know, somebody saying that. And and and unfortunately. I get I personally get annoyed because. Instagram's become a communication. platform. I just I like it as a work. tool. Yes. You know, and um but so many people. reach out, hey, do you want to come on.

this podcast? Hey, you know, do you. they just want to have a text. conversation over Instagram? And so I'm. it's just an ongoing battle, you know. But um well, let's move into. division in the country. I don't you have to help me with this. I. don't know what you're talking about. You Let me Let me spell it out for you. But uh. what a mess, dude. What an absolute. mess. Yeah. You know, and I don't want to go. into why we're divided or anything like.

that, but we are divided. And and I think media ties them with. this section as well, so we could just. throw it in there if you want. But I. mean it's just it's divided friends, it's divided families. I've seen it in. my family. I deal with it in my family. I have. I mean I know people who have had kids. who are turning 2 years old and the. grandparents haven't even come to see. the kid yet because. of a difference in political opinions.

Yeah. You know, and um and I I see it. everywhere. I see great what I would. have considered. very strong. families just. obliterated you know and um. how do. what's going on. why can't people I mean I remember when. I was growing up you know election day. was a good day. teachers came to school wearing American.

flag ties. oh dude. you know that pins everybody was. patriotic like we're going to vote. It. was a big thing. Yeah. You know, and and now. damn, man. I mean, you can't. you can't bring anything up without. somebody. Yeah. without triggering somebody's anger. And. um. how do you how do we skate around this. nowadays? You can't I think we I think a group of. us um.

let me back all the way up. So. psychologically speaking, we are wired. to. identify the tribe. We talked about that. earlier, right? Yeah. And. one of the greatest. um. one of the our brains are are prediction. machines and there threat detection. scanners. That's what they do all day. long, right? I think this is going to. happen. You know, I know where we're. headed here and is that going to hurt. me? Is that going to hurt me? Is that. going to hurt me? Is that going to hurt. me? Right? And that's why someone in. your situation who's seen a lot of.

potential threats, your brain's got a. lot of GPS pins. in it. And so it's always like, "Oh, that guy, that guy." And you like the. hard thing for a seal coming home is. that's just a dude in the mall, right? Like that's not a right like he's. walking at me with a backpack. And your. brain goes, "Here we go." And it's like, "Nope, I got to I got to relearn, right?". What we did in short order, man, is we. bought into not bought into, we went to. a place that gave us a wisdom on what's. going on in the world, right? And slowly.

that turned into a way to make money and. sell ads. Yeah. And like regardless of what anybody. says, MSNBC, Fox News, CNN, they have. one job. That's to sell ads. That's. their job. Yeah. Period. The best way they can get you to. sell ads is to get your attention. And. the best way to get your attention is to. convince that brain that they've got. something that's going to keep you. alive. And the best way that they can. get you to think that this someone's.

going to hurt you is to give you a them. And if you go back all through history, all the way back, when a when a country. wants to take over somebody else, they. start with dehumanizing language. They. start with us and them. And then they. builds and builds and builds until you. have no there's no nothing else I can do. except go to war. And we've done that. here. Yeah. And it has been not a common purpose. It's been at least it's not them. And at. least it's not them. And all of a. sudden, man, I wake up and it's been 10.

years. And the machines learn what I. like and what stories interest me. And. then it's become this I'm just yelling. at myself in a trash can. And so I yell. it out of here and I hear it in this ear. and I'm like, "No way." and I yell it. and it comes back in this year and it's. just the same noise, the same noise, the. same noise. And then my friendships. circle start to contract. Yeah. But it used when I was a kid, man, my. dad and I had different different ideas. on stuff and he encouraged. the mechanics of thinking through.

things. A because he believed what he. believed was true. And so if I believe. what's true, what what what what fear do. I have that you go exploring somewhere. else cuz I know where you're going to. end up. Yeah. Right. that don't bother me. And it was. the exercise that was important. Now. families are split up because you have. crossed line. You are an enemy now. And. we've at some point either it's going to. happen and we're going to have to figure. it out out of ash. Right. Yeah. Or we're going to have to have a. collective.

everybody. We got to stop. Like stop. You know what I mean? It's kind of like. when you're in a I I used to be an old. hardcore kid. like go to old punk show. and then the pit gets heavier and then. it gets heavier and then all a sudden. people were throwing fists and the. singer would stop and stop the band like. everybody stop like that's not why we're. here and everyone's like oh yeah okay. cool and then we get back like at some. point a group of people on both sides. are all 360 have to say enough we got to. stop going after each other there's. bigger issues at play here.

and I don't honestly know a way around. that what I've again I can't control. that so I always go back to what can I. control as a cornerstone of mental. health, right? What can I control? I've. turned it off. I've turned it off. Turned what up? The news. Yeah. I simply don't. If I have to, like, you know, there's a big news story. the other day about the raid and all. that. I like my wife will come by and. she'll just be like, "Something happened. today. You probably won't check in on. it." And so that's once every three. months. I'll pull it up and I went to. Fox News and I went to MSNBC and I.

thought probably somewhere in the. middle. And then I went on about my day. And because it's not giving me any data, it's trying to capture my attention like. a like a tractor beam, right? And what I. can control is how I treat people in my. community, how I communicate with my. kids, how I get involved in my kids'. local schools, how I like how I give to. charities in my like what I can do in my. local area. That's what I can I can do. I think that's what's unoring about. federal election, national elections is.

it's you realize at the end of the day. like I get one ping-pong ball toss. win that goldfish like I just get one. throw and it feels powerless, right? And. I think people get angsty and I want to. do I want to do I want to do and man we. just unspooled. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just. I feel like free thinking is gone for. the most part. Everybody's trying to. indoctrinate their kids. They're trying. to indoctrinate everybody they know. It's a control thing. And if if at least.

I I think it's a control thing where. it's, you know, you don't think like me, so I'm going to make you think like me. And you know, there's a lot of that. And. and and. like I said, I I deal with it within my. family, with with friends, everywhere I. go. I deal with it. And I've tried all. these different methods like, "All. right, we just won't talk about. politics." But then you have you have. the one [ __ ] you know, they just. every everyone everyone. they just keep going and it's like, can.

we just talk about something else? But. they just keep they keep at it because. you don't think how they think. And so how do you. how do you deal with that when somebody. just keeps pushing and you can't let's. just. you can't get away. what I I can't own. that and so I've put up so we started a. few years ago um right before co I think. maybe it was right during co like I sent. a letter to my family all right that.

said here's what we will not talk about. over the holidays we're not talk about. co we're not talk about politics we're. not talk about Trump we're not gonna. talk about B we're not talk about any of. that. and I'm just putting it out there and so. that gave us a touch point and I got a. very like my family's respectful and. they're cool and But as you mentioned, inevitably you end up nowadays you can. talk about, man, you got a lot of. potholes in the street and now all of a. sudden we're talking about, you know, China and the conspiracy, right? So we. can just get all. and so that one email gave all of us a. touchstone and and different people.

threw flags across that week like, "Hey, whoa, whoa, we're not talking about. this." And it literally just stopped it. If somebody continues, they are choosing. to not be a part of this. I'm not going to fight you. Yeah, I'm not like I res I I keep my fights. for just a few things. If you want to. opt out of hanging out with me and my. buddies, if you want to opt out of going. to the show, if you want to opt out of. Christmas time with with me and my. family, it's cool, man. You're a. grown-up. You're allowed to do that. But.

my job is to uphold the boundaries that. I've put up there. And I'm not going to. have this this I'm not going to have my. community dissolved because you're an. idiot, right? And so you opted out and. then that like they suck at, dude. I. can't control that. You're a grown-up. And at some point that loneliness, you. either combust, right? You go bananas or. you find your way back in and say, "Dude, I'm sorry." And the other thing I. got is this. I got some grace for. it occurred to me a few months ago. This. is just a few. I'm just just thinking. through this. Um, you've heard that old.

saying like you don't make good. decisions when you're under threat and. you don't make good decisions when. you're scared and you don't make good. like that's that's the importance of. training, right? So that when your. default setting is calm and distance and. make good make good choices. and I want to be graceful. because I lost some friendships and I. got some big divides and across family. it became a mess, right? Yeah. And I circle back and remember 2020 like. I called multiple friends of mine.

They're doctors here, research professor. here, path like neuropath over here, uh. or uh homeopathic doctor over here like. you know make their own granola and. whatever over here. Everybody had different takes on in 2020. like as we talk about co too. Everybody. had a different take. Everybody had. different severity. But the prevailing wisdom was we're all. going to die. Yeah. And if you didn't have the prevailing. wisdom, we're all going to die. It's. that they're trying to kill us. And if. you didn't have they're trying to kill.

us. It's they're trying to control us. One of those three narratives made its. way into every single heart in the. United States of America, probably. globally, but I'll just talk about here. And when I think I'm going to die, literally, or I think somebody is. nefariously trying to control me, that. sets off every alarm I got. Yeah, I'm going to come out swinging or I'm. going to come out and go run or I'm. going to freeze, right? The fight, flight, or freeze. I'm going to shut. down. And if I look across the country, that's what happened. And what I. realized I did was like you've been in.

these very few people have been in. situations that somebody pulls a gun and. it's about to be on, right? Or have had. to draw a weapon or been in situation. where there's bodies, whatever. It's. only those who have been there that. actually know how they're going to. respond. Everybody else is like, "No.". They watch a lot of John Wick and. they're like, "No, if that happened to. me, I would." You don't know. You know. what I mean? You don't know until you've. been in that room. I did. So, I think. it's unfair to judge somebody on like. that first moment, right? When I used to. work crisis stuff, I'd show up on scenes. and the first time somebody sees a dead.

body, right? The first time somebody. sees somebody's insides on the outside. and they go out in the front yard and. throw up or they step back and I'm not. going to judge that first impulse, right? That's the first time you've seen. that. We're going to have a conversation. about this may not be the job for you. Yeah. Um, similarly, I've had to circle back. and say, I've held people accountable. for decisions they made. when they were in full fight or flight. And maybe it's worth me reaching back. out with an olive branch saying, "Hey, now there's some smoke cleared on some. of this stuff. The dust is starting to.

settle, and I'm sorry, and I'm going to. try there. I'm going to start there.". And if they come back and they're like, "Yeah, you all right. You're you're. opting out." But I I'm I think I'm going. to loop back and start to have some of. those conversations because I'm holding. people accountable for decisions and. things they said, posts they posted, text messages they sent, whatever during. a time when they were under duress, too. Yeah. I don't know. It seems like a it seems. like something I can control. It makes a lot of sense. It may not work, but I'll give it a. shot. Well, what kind of um I mean what.

this was actually a question that. somebody from my Patreon had is for. somebody that wants to stay informed but. knows how toxic. the media, politics, the division is, how can they how can they stay informed. because I think I do think it's. important to stay informed. we are at a. pivoting point. and the country is either going to go. one way or the other now. and um. and so a lot of people want to stay more.

informed than than. I think they did in the past. So so one of a couple of my rules I. don't read headlines. I read the. article. Okay. A lot of times it'll say so and. so. The article is design I mean the. headline is designed to get me to stop. in a sea of bright colored lights and. say what about me? And so if I'm if I want to know. something I'm going to read the article. and I'm going to get it from multiple. sources and here's the important part. I'm going to stop.

We have this idea. Um you've probably I. imagine you've done this too. I do this. all the time. I have imaginary. conversations with people that I'm never. going to have in real life. Oh yeah. Right. Like, dude, if I saw that dude, I'm going to tell this dude, right? And. our bodies spin up as though it's. actually happening. Y, right? As though they're actually here. and we were actually in a confrontation. even though it's not happening at all. Right. Our body likes the cortisol. Our. body likes the adrenaline. Our body. likes to ramp up, especially if you're. an addict like I am. You may still be a. cortisol adrenaline junkie, too. Maybe. not. But I I I like it. I like feeling.

that. I call that internal pump, right? Like it's time to go. And I'm in the. shower, dude. I'm like at my most vulnerable. I've got. like a loofah and I'm like I'll tell. that. It's the least the least tough. thing in the world, right? Um we think. ruminating, we think thinking about things over and. over. We think worry is helpful because. we think it's productive thinking. I'm. I'm working out a scenario ahead of. time. Worry solves nothing. Rumination solves.

nothing. And I think it's a broader. concern that more data is an antidote to. anxiety. If I just go get one more cup. of coffee, I need to talk to one more. guy. I'm going to go I'm going to go. make one more phone call before I jump. in and start this job. I need to get one. more thing here. I need to watch one. more YouTube clip. I need go do it. Right? How many times have I sat there. scrolling the entire length of a workout. trying to find the perfect workout? Right? Just do just shut up and go.

Right? Do I buy a Glock or do I buy Get. something and get somebody who can coach. you, right? And we'll figure it out. later. Uh I'm the worst with guitars. that way, dude. Like I can sit there. like I don't know if I want this guitar. A I'm not that good. B it's not like I'm. a professional so it doesn't really. matter. Like it's all ways that I'm. trying to get more data as a way to make. myself feel better. So I say that all. that to say once you've read the. article, you know what you need to know. Yeah. sitting there scrolling for hours. and going down the rabbit holes which. those things are designed to do, right?

They're just like u water parks. They. want to get you down that thing and so. they can take you way the other side of. the park, man. Like I'm going to read. the article. I'm going to know what I. need to know. I'm going to have my. opinion on it. I'm going to go get a. counter opinion. I'm going to go about. my day, right? I'm not going to swim in. it. Yeah. That's that to me is the. challenge. Here's the other one. If I've. I have a a core philosophy is have a. guy. Like one thing I never worry about. is banking because my one of my best. friends on the planet is a one of the. banking commissioners in the state of. Texas. If I have a question about.

banking or finance, I call him. I also. sit by Dave Ramsey every week. So if I. have a question about like wealth. building, what I got a guy does Dave. know something about that. occasionally, right? Jeez Louise. And so. um and Dave like on the show he's like, you know, sell the truck, get out of. debt. He unpacked bond rates for me one. day and I'm a pretty smart guy and my. head almost exploded. Like he's a. savant, right? I got a guy I know. I. have a friend who's the the CEO or. associate CEO of a of a HVAC company.

You know what? I never have to worry. about an air conditioning question. If I. have a question, I call him and say, "Hey, what's the the latest thing I. should get?" Cuz I got to replace my air. conditioner. I don't Google it. I don't. go to Yelp. I got a guy. And so. similarly, if I ever have a question. about Blackwater, I have a friend in my local community. named Sean that I can ask about, you. know what I mean? Yeah. I can Google it and find all kinds of. garbage. I can call somebody who. actually knows. And so what I have to do. then is not outsource all of my insights.

and knowledge and relationships to the. computer. I got to go be with actual. people. you look for a resident expert. on. real humans who've got wisdom who have. actually done the work themselves who. have walked with other people who know. the academic knowledge too there's. that's the other weird thing that's. happened now is if someone's like no I. actually did the studies it's like oh. figures you idiot now it's like a virtue. to know less right and so we're just in. this weird environment where I'm all. sitting down with wise people right you. and I had lunch together months ago like. I'm going to sit down with somebody and. be like that guy knows what he's talking.

about I trust him and now we can have. different conversations right and and. that to me is a much better way to get. news than walking into a Vegas casino, right? And just all the lights and. sounds. Yeah. I find a lot of people, this is a. little off topic, but I'm just going to. go and myself included, but you know, I. used to when this channel started, I. used to do a lot of gun reviews and [ __ ]. like that. Yeah. And. whatever. It's a review. It's just my.

opinion. But what I find people do, and. I started noticing that back then, and. now it carries over into everything, global warming, climate change, politics, like whatever, whether there's science, there's it. seems like nowadays you can look for. information like I'll I'll give you an. example. Maybe I did a gun review on. that goldplated Desert Eagle behind you.

and I said, "This gun's horrible. It sucks. I think. it's a piece of shit." Well, and there's. 50 other reviews like that. People will. go and they will research. everything they can do to. confirm why they need to buy that. goldplated Desert Eagle. They might see. 50 negative reviews, but they're going. to keep looking for the one reason they.

want. that justifies why they want that. And. that's I think that's carrying over into. everything now. It's carrying over into. into science. I mean, I could I just the. reason I brought up global warming uh. climate change is because the interview. I did before you was about oh the. climate science. had something to do with that and. so when I was researching it I can find. science that says. basically proves it wrong. and I can find science that basically.

proves it's happening. and. I mean I'm. do you know what I'm getting at people. sit there and they will justify their. beliefs justify that purchase just they. want they will research research. research go through the internet just to. justify why they need that thing or why. their belief is right. and not wrong and and um many ways. there no I I I think the. politicalization of science has become a. mess. and it's it has.

there are some nefarious scientists. there's no question about that um here. is a great lesson I learned so I've. spent 20 years working in higher ed, right? I was a professor and I was um. did my own research, but I also was a. dean of students working with people. when the wheels had fallen off their. lives, right? And it was a fascinating I. I jumped to a media company to um to to. Ramsey Solutions, right, in 2020. And. here's what was an awesome moment for me.

that was a big like neon sign of clarity. when Kings I think it was King's College. when CO first kicked off and Kings I. think it was King's College out of. London. I may be wrong there but one. university group put on the table we. think 15 I'm making the numbers up but. 15 million people going to die. The media picked that up politicians. picked that up and took off. This is. nothing. they're making it up or we're. all going to be dead, right? We heard 15.

to 20. Well, now 20 is the new number, right? And we heard 50. Now all of a. sudden it's off to the races. And the. bigger the number or the bigger the red. font or the scarier the breaking news. story could be, the more they got our. attention. In the academic world, when they laid. that down, the whole goal of a scientist. is to be less wrong. You reject the. null. I proved to you that I wasn't. wrong, right? Or I found out I wasn't. wrong. So when they laid that down,

every science group in the world that. had a that had a lab or some sort of. interest or some sort of skill set. around that said, "Game on. It's a it's. a game to be less wrong." And then. within two or three weeks, they were. like, "Oh, cool. Now only 10. We've. revised the models down and data is. coming in and then it it's revised here. and it's revised here." The only two. groups that don't have a revision. mechanism are media and politicians who. can't come back and say, "Hey, we. reported this on Monday. We got some new. data. Here's the thing on Friday." Cuz.

then it's like, "Ooh, you change your. mind. You're not stable." And I'm. thinking, "Why do you read a book? It's. to learn something new, right? Why do. you get an ops report so I can learn. something new?" And then you get there. and you're like, "Oops, missed this. one." And you relay that back. So now. they've got a bigger pter. But we've. created a world in media where there's. there's no there is no hey I learn. something new button. We should all. celebrate. when we find out, oh man, we've been. doing this for 5 years. We're way off. We need to start doing this now. We.

should all cheer. Instead, we turn that. into the next election cycle as to why. you should hate them and why they're. stupid, right? Instead of saying, "Dude, thank God 15. million people aren't going to die. It's only going to be this number. Awesome. Can we get us It's a It's. everybody's using the same words, but. they're just flying past each other.". Yeah. And there are scientists now who have. social media has like I can make a lot. more money posting. I can make a lot. more money doing public speaking than I. can at my professor job. I can make way. more money writing a book than I can.

writing an article that nobody's going. to read. And so it has changed the. incentive structure for thoughtful. people. Interesting. It's a mess. Yeah. back back in the in the 70s ' 60s7s. if you did something if you were in. higher if you did something for business. if you did something for like a company. you were a charlatan how dare you. take money how dare you take money from. business our job is to create bricks of.

knowledge and put them up there they can. come buy those bricks on their own. that's not our job so much so that it. was divorced from reality right now you. end up with these studies that do. nothing right so the Interplay is good, but it's relatively new that scientists. are in it or the incentive structure has. shifted. That makes a lot of sense. It's a mess. Well, let's take a quick break. Cool. When we come back, we'll uh get into the. implications of what CO 19 has done to. the mental health of the population.

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All right, John, we're back from the. break. We're getting ready to dive into. CO. But um but no, in all seriousness, a lot is obviously a lot has changed. since. CO hit 2020. And I want to know what you. think the implications are going to be, you know, from all this on on on. everybody. I mean, it's affected adults, kids, masks. People are scared shitless. They're going to die from it. People.

think it's a hoax. Yeah, I mean it's. it's affected everybody in different. ways. Just I guess it just matters how. you think, you know, what what your. you know what I'm getting at. Yeah. Yeah. So, I consider myself an. optimist and a stark realist. Okay. Um. hope is a big thing for me. Like if you. there's not a light at the end of the. tunnel, there's why I'm not going to. walk in that tunnel, right? Yeah.

And I think I think what happened over. the last couple years is a hundred-year. playout. Um, and you. you think this is going to affect us for. a century. at least. Here's why. Um, not co. I don't think CO is. We had a generation of adults who went. crazy. and we pulled the pillars on. uh we pulled the pillars on the bedrock.

of where how this thing what this thing. sits on. We pulled the pillar on education. If you go to that school those teachers. are trying to kill you or if you don't. go to school, right? Like so we pulled a. pillar on education. We stopped worship. services across the country. We pulled. the thread on. on like on on the binding. um principles that people get up every.

day like that's the reason they they. operate in the world is to uphold their. religious faith to live into it. And we. we stopped it. Stopped. You can't do. that. We pulled the pin on on. government. Everybody talks crap about. government and everybody. But at the end. of the day, I thought everybody like. behind closed doors had my best. interest. I no longer believe that. And whether. it's true or not doesn't matter. It's. the fact that I don't believe that. It's. the fact that we told a group of kids.

that doctor is giving you bad advice. I'm a plumber. I know more than that. doctor does. I Googled it or I watched a. YouTube video. That guy's trying to kill you. you. regardless of like masks or no mask, right? You need to take ivormect or you. need to I don't care what the doctor was. saying. You have a group of parents, group of adults, a group of media. supervisors who went to war against the. medical. So you're talking about. medicine, education, government, religion. In 3 years, we pulled the pin.

on all of it. Yeah. And now I got a six-year-old daughter. who's trying to navigate a world that I. don't think we fully understand what. we've done. We turned it into ash. Now. we've given her reason to doubt things. And so these kids are swinging off. It's like jumping out of a plane. I I. took my first jump out of a plane the. other day. Dave talked some of us into. doing my first skydiving thing. And I'm. terrified of heights, man. You did that voluntarily. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was. wild. I hate jumping airplanes. Can't stand.

it. I I I knew the moment I hit the ground, I'm going to do that for the rest of my. life. I loved every second of it. Really? Yeah. Oh yeah. It was awesome. Like for. it was awesome. That scares the [ __ ] out. of me every single time. I have no idea. why you would want to jump out of a. perfectly good airplane. Well, yes, it was taking us up to 14,000. We got to. 2500. I was like, I can't believe we're. going to jump. And the guy's like, we. got a long way to go. I was like, no. But yeah, anyway, I loved it. I don't. even know why I was telling you. Why was. I telling you that? Um.

Oh, it's like jumping out and him like, hey, I didn't pack this shoot and I. don't know how solid it is. I'm not jumping. Yeah, like that guy on my back said, "I packed. this and I have a vested interest in. both of us landing safely. All right, let's jump." Right. And that's what. we've done with our kids and literally. they're going to have we're going to. have to as a culture build that back. Um, my daughter lost some critical. developmental. moments. Um,

like what? Like how to how to read facial features, how to u be uncomfortable, how to um. have rejection and like these critical. things that happen when you're four, five, and six. Just gone, gone, gone. Damn, I didn't even think about that. facial expressions. Yeah. Just. so she's going to not You don't think. she can read body language? She can't. I mean, she's gonna have to. learn, right? And kids are incredibly. resilient, right? So, I I I don't want.

to oversell that, but I do think down. the road I I see it I see it with her, I. see with my son, I see it with their. friends. It's a different environment. And um you put that on top of this. stuff, outsourcing communication to. electronic world. And yeah, I think we. spun the top on that one. Why do you. think it's going to take a hundred. years? Because I think you got to cycle. out right now. I mean, you look at folks. who go through major collective traumas. together, their great grandkids, right?

You've seen some of those studies or. heard about them that um trauma gets. passed. on and on. And so I think there's a. collective trauma here. And here's the. other thing. They saw adults and this is. a big one. So I've been on people have. asked me like my thoughts on masks, no. masks, all that kind of stuff. I've got my opinion on that stuff. Mhm. More importantly, our kids saw our. parents go crazy and children absorb. tension. They absorb chaos and they make. it their fault because the adults in the. world are their entire world. And so if.

dad is angry, I need to fix me to bridge this gap. Very few kids understand dad's crazy or. dad's having a bad day. They think dad's. mad and I need to fix this. And so we. have children who have become. responsible for the emotional regulation. of the adults in their world and they. cannot carry that weight and it will. spin out in all different. So it's going. to take a group of people and a. collective effort to say and.

unfortunately usually if you look at. throughout history it's a calamity. It's. some big challenge that a group has to. rise together to meet which I think we. will. So I'm optimistic long term. There's going to have to be some things. that people put aside their anxieties, put aside their their drama, put aside. their I'm keto, I'm vegan. They got to. put that crap down because we got bigger. problems to solve. It's going to take. that sort of collective coming together. Um. my dream is that we would have the. willpower just to do it. I don't I'm not. super optimistic about it. I think we're. going to have to to have a challenge. We.

have to rise and meet it. The light in the tunnel's dim for that, huh? Yeah. So, you think that basically I. mean the. it's going to be my daughter or my. daughter's grandkids, they're going to. have to figure something out. You think all of us are going to have to. die before this starts to reset. or we're going to have to go to our kids. and say, "I'm sorry. I went bananas and. I'm turning the TV off." And here's the. other thing. We talking earlier about. getting off social media, talking.

earlier about getting off the news and. figure. somebody sat down with me the other day. and they said, "I'm I've um" and it's a. it's somebody I'm close to and they. said, "Enough's enough. I got to change. my life. I don't sleep anymore. My this, my this, my this." It was it was a hard. conversation, but it was them just being. vulnerable, being open. Here's where I'm. at. A a dude right around my age. And I told him, I'm going to I can tell. you some things. It's the hours of 8:00 p.m. to 10 p.m. that wind most people down because I'm.

going to tell you to get off your phone. and I'm going to tell you to go for lift. weights. I'm going tell you to go for a. walk. I'm going to tell you to change. what you eat. That's all fine. But when you do all those things at. 8:00, you're going to be staring at your. wife and you're not going to know how to. talk. You're going to feel a little bit. weird. It's going to feel a little bit. awkward until you all learn some new. skills on how to communicate together, on how to have sex instead of watching. Netflix again. How to do some of these. things that we've just lost over time. And most people fall apart there. And so.

I just go back to this. I go back to. scrolling. I go back to Netflix. It's. like, "Hey, I'll just start the next. episode for you, bro. Like, you don't. even have to move. I'll just start the. next one. And by the way, that series is. over. I know you're going to like this. one. I'll go ahead and just start it for. you. I don't have to move." Right? And. the groceries will just come. So we've. created this world where we're insulated. from some of So it's going to take. people saying I'm going to engage that. two hours of awkwardness until I learn a. new set of skills and I can practice. these skills and are you in it? I'm in. it. Are you in it? I'm in it. And I'm. going to go to my kids and say, "Hey, I. acted crazy the last two or three years.

and I'm sorry. I was scared. I was. nervous. I was whatever. I'm in this. together. Now I'm going to have to go. kick a soccer ball." Right? I went and. bought me and my son bow and arrows so. that I've I've got things I can do that. I love and bring me peace that's. meditative for me and I have some time. with him and we're outside so I can hit. all these buckets at the same time and. that's an hour I'm not spend on social. media. I'm not sitting on a couch. watching TV. For the first 16 17 years.

of my marriage, we had no recliners in. the house cuz my wife's like, "If. there's a recliner here, you will sit. down and if you sit down, you'll turn. the TV on. turn the TV on. I've lost. you. So, there's no like that's how. radical we got in my house. And now. we've created a world where sitting down. feels weird. You know what I mean? We're. going to go move. But it's going to take. a group of people facing discomfort and. heading into it then. Yeah, man. I'll be. all about that, man. If we want to do. that, I know we can. I know we can. No. question, man. Are there that many families out.

there that don't communicate that just. sit there on the phone? We don't do. that. Me and my wife have great. communication. No, we it's it's that 2 in apart and. 2,000 mi away from each other. Man, that's that's that common. I sit right here on the couch and I'm. scrolling ESPN sports and she's. scrolling Pinterest and we are in. different planets. We're right next to. each other and it's our bodies are. screaming at us, man. Like not. connected, not connected, not connected. And we call this together time. And it's. a it's it's wrecking families. And it's.

kids. I mean, you can go I mean you go. to sit at a restaurant now. Oh, I see. on the screens, man. Or I don't want to. deal with my the discomfort. You got a. little kid, right? I don't want to deal. with the discomfort of a unruly child in. a restaurant. It's embarrassing. It's. annoying. They knock a water glass over. They don't like this food. Like, that's. just part of being a parent. I can make. all that go away. I just hand them a. phone. Yeah. Right. And that's generational, man. Cuz. then you have a kid that doesn't know. how to what decorum looks like, doesn't.

know what respect and dignity looks. like, doesn't know how to control their. body for an hour. Um, and all of those. things ripple through a society. It. ripple through a community. And so it's. it's a group of restaurants saying no. phones welcome like they did when they. said no smoking in here. Everyone's. like, "Oh, we're going to shut you. down." They didn't. People quit smoking. in there cuz they want to go eat in the. restaurant. There are no phones allowed. in this restaurant. It's going to take. something like that. It's going to take. a group of parents at a school saying, "We're not going to everyone. If we all.

agree, no kids on phones. Everybody in?". Cool. We're going to do that. And it's. going to take stuff like that, man. The whole distrust thing you were. talking about, too. I mean, just thinking about being a little kid. and you got your parents think think one. way. You got the school that thinks the. other way. You got your friends that. think this way. Everybody, like I was. saying, the science is seems to be. manipulated on both sides. And um and what the hell? I mean, where.

where are kids going to. I thought my teachers were the smartest. people in the world. Here's what beyond. the smarts. I thought my teachers loved. me and cared about me. Yeah. I thought my minister at church loved. and cared about me. I thought. um I'm trying to even go back when I was. the earliest memories I have. I thought. that Ronald Reagan and George H and I. thought Bill Clinton, I thought they. loved me and wanted the best for me, right?

Um I don't think that's a I thought my. doctor knew everything, right? And if he said to do we just did it cuz. the doctor said we don't have that. anymore. And it's less about like again. hope hear what I'm saying like it's less. about I disagree with your advice. It's. more there's a pinhole in the air of the. institution. and. um I heard it put best the other day. Um. I mean everybody from Jordan Peterson to. Esther Prell, I mean these are people.

all over the aisles saying we have some. common stories that bind civilizations. together and we pulled a thread on all. of them all at the same time. And so. we're going to have to decide I'm going. to build better things. that are going to make these u. dysfunctional things obsolete. That's a. better harder road to hoe than it is to. just go burn everything to the ground. Right. One of them, and you can correct. me if I'm wrong cuz this I'm I'm getting. out of my lane here on what I don't. know. One of them feels very much like.

the greatest generation that come from. World War II and we're going to channel. this into a collect. We had a collective. purpose here defeating evil and now. we're gonna have a collective purpose. here. And of course psychologist we can. pick this apart but they came home and. built. versus what you experienced in overseas. which is we're just going to keep. burning. Oh you build up a little we're. going to burn it down. We're going to. build up a little we're going to burn it. down. And one of those right one of. these you end up over time with some.

functioning societies and some some. institutions that help everybody move. forward. Yes. Yes, they got cracks. Yes, they got to be we got to work on them. There needs to always be critics. All. that's important, but it's better than. nothing, right? It's better than. scorched earth. And so, um, yeah, absence a group of people getting. together saying, "Let's start building. Let's start doing something right. Let's. start creating." Um, man, yeah, it's going to be tough. It's. going to be a long century. Do you think. that are there any other implications. from from CO that you think are going to.

I think the general again like. what if the next one's bad? Yeah. Right. What if the Shawn Ryan disease. ripples through? I mean, nobody's going. to put on a mask. Nobody's going to stay. at home. Nobody's going to not work, right? And so we we cried wolf too much. and too loudly on both sides of the we. everyone's yelling. And so now the next.

thing Yeah. It could be tough. Could be tough. Yeah. What do you What do you think, man? Like. what do you what are you experiencing. with with uh. like what like as as a young dad as a. for like you've seen a lot of the world, you've experienced a lot. You get the. emails from all over the country. Um, I. think the biggest thing that I've taken. from the. the I'll say this, the first thing that. comes to mind is I had no idea how many. people in this world live in fear all.

the time. all the time. and that became the the veil got lifted. when CO happened and. you my son wasn't born you know he's 11. months old so. um but I I saw I just saw fear. everywhere fear that your rights are. going to be taken away fear that you're. going to catch the virus fear everywhere. you know and and. I just I don't live in fear I never.

have, right? You know, I don't live in fear and and I. don't want my son to grow up living in. fear. How do you balance um. so some would say I don't live in fear, but I still put on an oven mitt before I. grab my cast iron skillet off the stove. Right. I'm not scared of the skillet. It's on. fire. It's hot. So, I'm going to take.

precautions cuz I'm not dumb, right? I. don't live in fear of my gun, but I don't load it till I'm out till. I'm getting out of the car to go hunt. and I I keep it on state, right? So, I. take precaution. How do you balance not. living in fear with. rational smart? Well, I feel like I feel like it got. wiped, right? I don't live in fear, which like I'm just going to act insane. or I'm scared of everything and I'm not. going to I'm going to hold my breath for. the next for the rest of my life, right? There's got to be a balance there. Yeah. I mean, for me personally, I guess we.

all live in fear to a certain extent, right? We we I mean, I have I have a. fear that I'm going to be out with my. family and there's going to be an act of. something happens. There you go. You. know what I mean? So, what do I do? I. figure out the solution. All right. I'm. not going to let that control me and not. go anywhere for the rest of my life. I'm going to learn how to. handle a weapon to be able to protect my. family if that were to happen. and then. I'm going to go about my day.

There you go. You know, and and for me it was the same. with CO and I at the beginning I took it. extremely I was the guy out there with. the Lysol can hitting my packages, you know, and then. then you then we got more information. and then we got more information, right? And then I formulated and because the. science was manipulated on. every front, everywhere you look at the. media, everything. I just educated the best educated myself. the best that I could and then. formulated my own decisions, you know,

and. to be able to move about my day back to. normal. I I look at the problem, I. figure out the best solution for me, and. then I'm I move about my day and go. So. you did that. You did it on a micro. scale. What I was talking about a minute. ago on macro scale. Here's discomfort. I'm going to stare it. down. and I'm going to walk right through the. middle of it. So that as you just something as simple. as so I can get on about my day, right?

What do I have to do to get on about my. day? I'm going to have to learn this. I. got to learn a new skill. I got to learn. how to do these things. I got to educate. myself. I don't even know how to educate. myself in the right way. I'm going to. Right. So I am going to do these things. so that I can go through discomfort. And. I think that's the path forward. People. like, "How do I heal from anxiety?" You. got to turn fa walk into anxiety. That's. the thing. And and you can't the more. you run from it, the tighter that's that. thing spins, right? It's facing that discomfort and heading. into the middle of it. Right.

Yeah. But that that that's at least the first. thing that comes to my mind. Yeah. You know, when I think about CO is all. the fear that was wrapped around it. And I I tend to think CO was was an. accelerant. Um I think that fear has been brewing. for a long time. And I think like you. said, I pulled the veil off and just. dumped gasoline on existing coals and it. just. Yeah. went wild. Let's move into addiction.

Okay. So. I don't know why, you know, but. addiction is on the rise. It's getting. worse with all the fentanyl coming up. through. through the southern border and it's. getting laced with everything. But on. top of that, you have addiction from I. mean, it seems like. there was a period of time where doctors. were just. tic tacs, man. Yeah. Here's some benzo. Here's some Oxy. Here's some painkillers. Here's some.

SSRI. Here's and. what why is addiction and suicide too? Why is addiction. what what's hap why is it right now just. going through the numbers are insane. Yeah. So I think it was in 2019, this is how naive I was as a college. professor. The um I was a college. administrator in 2019, a study came out.

in JAMAMA, the journal of American. Medical Association and it was a such a. stark like whoa, I didn't know that. And. I thought this is going to be the one. this is going to be the study that. everybody starts ringing the bell on, right? This is our our generation. Sputnik. For the third year in a row, the average. lifespan of a US citizen had gone down, right? And you may have heard this, you. may have heard this term since 2019. This is pre-COVID. It had gone down and they said it was. not because of murder or whatever the.

media was cranking up, right? They. called them diseases of despair and it. was organ disease failures, addiction, suicide, and organ disease being like. liver disease and heart attacks. Mhm. And so I heard one prominent doctor that. I have high respect for call said we are. lonelying ourselves to death. Really? I heard another guy say we're we are. distracting ourselves to death. And ultimately we've created a world at.

the and I would go back to the pace, the. speed of things. I would go back to we. talked about earlier the lack of tribe, the lack of relationships that have all. overnight been outsourced into a. different mode of communication. Um the the the work has taken on. an identity like you have to work has to. solve all of our existential crisis now, right? We used to learn about these. things hard issues at home and our.

religious institutions even at school a. little bit. Now workplaces teaches you. about dress and decorum and diversity. and all these things you should be. having conversations in your culture in. your community. Now the workplace is. responsible for this and you got to take. care of all my healthcare and you got to. take care of all my mental health care. and my spiritual care now and now you. got to make me feel comfortable work. So. we have all these things happening at. the same time. And so if you go back to the analogy. like of the alarms going off, mental.

illness, man, it's it's an alarm system. Our bodies are pretty attuned machines. They're they're incredible. They'll let. you know that something's not right. And I can address the fire, and that's. hard, man. You got to get water. It's. going to get everything wet. It's going. to turn everything into a mess. And. you're gonna have a big clean up after. it's over. It's going to be hard, but it. puts a fire out. Your house survives. Or. I can climb up there. And what addiction. is is like climbing up on your smoke. detector and taking a pillow and just. duct taping it around it.

You can be addicted to you work 90 hours. a week or 120 hours a week and we'll. give you a million dollars. That's an. addiction. You can be addicted to sex, pornography. You can be addicted to. earning more money, right? You can be. addicted to 50 million different things. And now you got the doctors just handing. out, you know, um, pills, man. And so. it's a collective. And then I I look at the same thing with. Hours Watched on Netflix. I look at th. that is that's an it's a longtail.

suicide. I'm not pulling the trigger. But I'm cashing out of my life. It's the. lives of quiet desperation. And you look. at the tale, man, it just slowly fades. And that used to just be the American. male and now it's everybody. I'm just. out of the life that I've created for. myself. What do you mean that used to. just be the American male? That was the this this. civilization in its discontents, right? It was it's this it's this.

homogenization of taking men and saying, "You know what? Actually, here's what. this looks like. Tuck your shirt in, wear, press khakis, go to this job, and. come home and you see the things. starting to rattle.". Um, and then you create all these. distractions over time. You can get a. bigger house. You can get more land. You. can get a this. All of those are ways to. absorb energy of somebody being forced. into a system that they were not. designed to live in, right? And then you. throw women into the workforce and then. it's like, you know what? You need to. take all of your instincts, all of your.

the things that might have made you. whole. You know what's really going to. make you whole? More money, more power, more prestige, more accomplishment. Get. on that trip. And so now we've just. created an entire ecosystem. It's. madness, right? I'll also say this. This. isn't talked about a lot. Um this might even be my next book. If you lay, you remember going back. earlier, there's a part of our brain. that is just scanning the system 24/7, 365. Are you safe? Are you safe? Are you. safe? Part of safety is, do you got a. community? Do you got a gang? Do you.

have people that you can call at 2 a.m.? Part of safety is, are you an abusive. situation? Is somebody hurting you? Are. you in an abusive work, toxic work. environment, whatever that is? The third. one is autonomy. Do you get to choose. what happens to you tomorrow? Right? There's a natural built-in whose control. are you driving or somebody else driving. your life. And we don't talk about this. a lot, but we have the most insanely. indebted society. Voluntarily indebted.

debt forever was a it was a it was a. slavery tactic. It was a way to capture. people and control their movements. And now we do it for a shiny car and a. shiny t-shirt, right? And so there's a. part of our brain that is screaming, "We're not okay. You don't get to decide. what you do tomorrow. Toyota Motor. Company does or Bank of America decides. what you do tomorrow. Not you." So. you're in an abusive situation at work. Keep showing up, dude, cuz you have no. other options cuz you owe $100,000 in.

student loans and in credit cards and. your stupid truck payment, right? It's. like, and we've created this world and. said, "I need to have all these things.". And our brains are screaming at us. We're not okay. We're not okay. we're. not okay. And it can't we can't live. You've been in a building where the the. the fire alarms going off. It's just so loud, right? And the the. blinking lights are so loud. Eventually, you either have to get out. of the building. You someone's got to go clip the wires. and cut that thing off or you just have.

to put on some headphones and veg out. And that's that's the opioid crisis. That is fentanyl. That is I'm just out. I can't I'm stuck here. I'm out. I'm. just going to go through my life and I'm. going to be done. Yeah. And that's where we are. And so it's a. re-engagement of purpose. There's a. reason dudes who get out of the military. and they're 30 years out, as soon as they get back in a gang, back. with the team, they're all talking about. 30-year-old stories. There's a reason. high school football guys who are 40 and.

run into each other, they just go back. to telling the old high school stories. Cuz for most of us, that was the last. time we were part of something bigger. than ourselves. It was the last time we. were part of a team that had a purpose. towards the a goal. And as a society, we. do not have that. We have said it's you. versus me. Technically, you and me are are. like we're uh we're competitors, right? Like like uh there's a there's a we're.

not in a common gang now. Now, those of. us who do this for a living know there's. not, dude. It's infinite, right? We're. not enemies at all. in fact we're all. supporting one another and uh trying to. make sure people are well, right? So, but it can feel that way. We have to. have people in our lives towards a. common mission. And honestly, when. people start making sure that they're. safe and they've got a gang and they. have autonomy in their lives, my boss. peace, right? I call it um just value.

and worth. I'm worth just going to bed. at night without meds. I'm worth getting. up and having coffee because I want to, not cuz I have to, right? I'm worth. rambunctious, reckless sex with my with. my spouse. I'm just wheels off because. we're so safe in this relationship and. get weird like whatever the thing is. I'm worth loving my kids so much that. I'm going to treat teach him how to. treat his body by treating my body. right. I'm going to model that. Right. We have this sense of worth and it's. this.

and in my job in in my day job watching. people come in and they've paid off. $200,000. They paid off their house. They simply walk different man like cuz. it's for the first time it's like oh I'm. unchained. I'm unshackled and I've got. peace in my life. And by the way to do. this we had to work on our marriage. We. had to figure out a new way to talk. We. had to become a team and a unit and we. had to get some other people in our. lives to walk with us. And now all of a. sudden this whole thing now we've got a. new journey that we're healing toward. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so it's all of it, but I think it's.

people saying, you know what, I'm worth. more than sitting on my couch. Like I'm. worth more than a life of quiet. desperation. Um what does that look. like? And some people the the some of. the language in the faith communities. have been, you know, churches are dying. They're not. Crossfit's the new church. um like. listen to podcast and get in podcast. community is the new church Facebook. groups the new church yoga communities. people are going to find ways to get.

together and to have a common sense of. purpose and mission. Can it be something. bigger than abs? Can we do something. bigger than that? You know what I mean? Yeah. Can we do something more bigger that's. that's a more collective uniting front. towards a a common good? And that's just. honestly I'm going to go revise my. answer. There is light at the tunnel. Maybe it's not a hundred-year thing, but. it's going to take young dads like me. and you. to say we're going to do better. You know what I mean? You know, um.

off this off the topic of addiction, but. something that uh I'm noticing too is. and I'm guilty of it. Um, I don't think that people know I don't. think they do things. We're always worried about what. everybody else wants, you know, and um. like the 5-year-old might get a he might.

want a red fire truck, but he wants the. red fire truck to post on Instagram to. show all his friends that he's got the. red fire truck. And as soon as that's. over, he doesn't give a [ __ ] about it. And I see that happening with adults and. with everything from cars to private. jets to watches to And I see all these. people and they're buying. all this [ __ ] that they don't even. appreciate. They don't I don't think. they even want it. They just want it.

because everybody else wants it or they. think everybody else wants it. And. what's that old fight club line? It's uh. buy working a job that we hate to buy. things that we don't need to impress. people we don't even like. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I I feel like that is had gas thrown on. it as well. Yeah. It's peacock feathers, right? It's. I used to have my peacock feathers that. I would show my little tribe. Now I can. show the planet, right? And there's so.

many coming in. Yeah. It's just it's an. arms race. So, how do you get people to. turn inward. and figure out what they want? It's it's. Man, this is a word. Talk about a word. that's just been beat to death. Um, for. me and my wife, it was solving for. freedom and not solving for freedom in. some obnoxious. like esoteric way.

What is a way we can build a life for. ourselves and model for our kids and our. community that we can have the most. peace? Let's work really hard. And what I mean. by really hard is I was the dean of. students of a law school, a great law. school, right? I had a great salary and. I drove a $3,200. 1992 F-150 that was a piece of junk. It. was hilarious. But my truck was a depreciating asset. So, I bought him at the bottom of I.

bought it at the bottom of its. depreciation so it would lose none of my. money. And that's how I got to and from. work when I wasn't riding my bike to. work. And so I decided, well, we've got. this issue, we got this issue, gas. prices, it I'll ride my bike. Let me get. healthy. I'm going to do Right. So, I. started looking for ways. Where's ways. we can unhook from the tether? Right. Let's just don't have a TV in the house. for a season. That sounds okay. Well, now we're going to have to go for walks. together. And now we're going to have to.

talk cuz that's boring, right? So all. these things downstream. People want to. go to TV or Instagram to learn how to. talk. Just go for a walk, right? So it's. unhooking. How can we owe nobody any. money? Yeah. How can I un And what I found is. contrary to what I expected when I. bought suits at Marshalls for half price. or I got them at the halfp price rack at. the sale. A, nobody ever said to me, they may have talked behind my back. It. never stopped me from getting the job. that I wanted, right? Yeah.

Um, driving my truck was turned hilarious. It was funny. Everyone gave me a hard. time about it, but in a good naturatured. kind of way. And then you started. quietly watching people sell their turn. their leases back in and buy a car with. cash. Yeah. Cuz when people say, "Why you buy that. crappy car? I don't owe anybody any. money." And it was that simple. like ah. right so I'm going to begin to solve for. freedom in a way that how can I move. through the world right that's why I. went and got another graduate degree I.

all my education was in working at. universities right my master's degree my. PhD was in education like how I thought. if this system shifts a little bit I'm. in a mess well I worked at a university. that gave me a free class every semester. so I thought I'll get another degree in. counseling so I have some options to go. right so it's just living a life of. freedom by the I was going to read these. books anyway, so why not? Um, for like. you're a great example like I've got. this set of skills and I think maybe the. greatest skill you have is the skill of. how to learn a new skill. And so like.

man, I'm going to create this thing. Well, then I'm going have to learn how. to do photography. I'm going have to. learn how to set up cameras. I'm going. to have to learn how to. and you did it right. Yeah. And so podcasting goes away tomorrow. Like the medium just dissolves. You've. got so many new skills. You know what I. mean? You've got communication skills. you'd be a great therapist. Some like, so I'm going to continue to solve for. freedom, which means I'm going to live a. life of discomfort. I'm always going to. be pushing towards something. I'm learn. how to hunt my own food. I'm going to. learn how not cuz I think it's coming. down. That's a good skill to know how to.

do, right? We got big gardens. It's. solving for freedom in the in the in the. truest sense of that word. Interesting. Yeah. And really, I guess if I'm But I'm. I'm I'm just processing this as I've. talking. Solving for freedom is really. solving for peace. What's the least amount of like drama? I'm going to know my neighbors. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm I'm gonna do. these things that are going to give me. peace throughout my day. If I have a hard conversation I need to. have, I'm just going to have it now. I'm not thinking about it for 4 weeks. Let's have it right now.

Let's move into some of this active. shooter stuff. Okay. That's definitely on the rise. Yeah, man. And. what. what's your opinion on why is this. happening? Guns have been around forever. Yeah, way before me or you came around. They were in abundance. When I was. growing up, we didn't have this problem. when I was growing up. Why is this. happening. so much more frequently now? Is it. because lack of human interaction.

and people and kids are desensitized. here. I'll just run through some of the. like some of the things that have over. time made me go, "Huh, fascinating." I. heard an honor shame researcher who. studied honor shame cultures that are. different than the culture we exist in. now made a compelling case um for. fist fights in school used to serve as. pressure release valve on a system. when somebody shoves another kid. You.

remember like back in high school, everyone got there and ran to watch was. going to happen and you heard another. kid hit another kid. It was visceral. You felt it. It was real. and I don't. want none of that or occasionally people. like I want a lot of that, right? And. those kids went into jiu-jitsu or. whatever. But there was a collective. visceral. like a releasing of that valve. Right as. I graduated high school, getting in a. fight at school across the country, you. go to jail, they just arrest you, take. you out. So my son, the idea of getting.

in a fight in school is insane. It's. madness. It's a trip to the jail. He has. a very different opinion. Now, I'm not. saying fighting in school is good. I'm. saying that we did a good thing and over. time we allowed this pressure valve to. build up and build up and build up and. build up. And then the pervasive sense. of another study, I think this was out. of the FBI, they took some kids who had. just grown up, had never handled. weapons, but grew up on first-person. shooter games, and they were.

deadly. They were incredible. because their heart rates didn't change. They didn't have the trigger impulse. they just were able to through their. targets. And so it may be that we've got. a generation of kids that are skilled in. like that's a picture in their head that. wasn't in my head. I was when I was. playing Mario Kart, right, or whatever I. was Donkey Kong, right? And a third one. may be. there. They were everywhere, but there. wasn't this like. uh.

now I'm getting on a limb here, but I. just have to imagine there's a romance. to. to media violence that didn't exist when. you and I were in it. Um, and the stories you hear from active. shooters that the first time they pull a. trigger and it hits somebody, there's a, oh, this just is this is real, right? This is a very real situation that I was. in a fantasy. I was in my head. I was in. a this isn't a movie. This is, you know what I'm saying? So there's a.

detachment from reality and all then you. take all that and throw it into a box. and. so they're not realizing what they're. doing until until they're. I think very few uh I think very few. there's there's some I I've come to. believe after just sitting with people I. don't I don't I think there's less evil. than we think there is. I think there's. people who end up on divergent paths and. yeah, but again, it could be the mental. health crisis and and the this and the. this and I've got an outlet for this and.

I've got all these media outlets putting. just gas on it and putting gas on it and. here we are. I don't know. I know here. we are is what I'm thinking. Yeah. What I do believe is this um I think it. was Thorough or Emerson, one of the. greats. I'm gonna I'm gonna butcher the. quote here, but I pity the young adult. who never fired a weapon as a kid. because he never understood the extent. of a man's rage. M.

there's something about sitting with a. kid and teaching them firearm training. when you watch them pull the trigger the. first time and it it ripples through. their body that it's the respect is. instantaneous. You think that they respect that? I the kids I've been around it it's a. whoa right. and so. it's it's before there's a bravado to.

it. It's before there's a Yeah, it's. before any of that. It is This is a. powerful tool. and it rattles through a kid. I remind. him with with comic regularity about the. dangers of I don't have to remind I. don't have to tell my kid, my son, he. knows. He's seen it, right? He's helped me clean a deer. He sees it. He's felt it. And I still remind him and. I still have guns and saves. I still. have all the safeguards at my house. But. I think that training kids, same as.

defensive driving, right? Like if we. train kids, this is what happens here. It sounds counterintuitive. You mean you. tell me train every kid? Yeah, I do. Cuz. I think it it elevates a respect for it. People don't play with stuff that they. respect. Um there becomes a safety. element to it that again, you divorce. them from reality and then someone. finally turns 18 or 21 and they go get. that gun or they go take that gun, they. got all this anger and rage and now it's. out on the street. Um, I don't know. Yeah, I I may prove to be wrong with how I'm.

raising my son, but. it's a deep topic, you know. I don't. think anybody. What do you think? What do What do I think? Why it's. happening? I think it's a. I think it's I think kids are. desensitized, okay, nowadays. And it goes back to your. loneliness thing, but. desensitized from watching all the John. Wick movie. Like. I think they're desensitized from the. video games. I think they're. desensitized from the from I mean I I'm.

not I don't watch much TV, but Walking. Dead, right? You know, I'm all about shooting some. zombies. But. when we're watching that and I see, you. know, I see a guy pick up a bat with. spikes in it and beat a kid to death. Yeah. In the head. Y, you know, and that's that's just that's. that's acceptable now. That's TV. Yes.

And we're worried about. we're we're over here worried about. offending people. on I don't want to get into it, but you. know what I'm you know what I'm getting. at. We're worried about this. But over here, we have a kid getting his. face beat in and it looks very real. I've seen that kind of thing happen and. it looks very real. And it they're seeing it over and over. all the time. Video games, movies. It's a detachment from reality, right? Yeah. Y. and and I think there's a and and then.

in the social media and the loneliness. and you don't interact with people. You. don't go through a checkout aisle. anymore. You don't all of that. I. noticed. things changing in the military when we. started moving towards drones. You know, there's a detachment from the. violence, right? Well, you have a detachment. There's a there's that personal. attachment is gone. You know, before we. would go on an operation, we would go.

and we would meet the pilots that are. going to cover our ass while we're. taking down the target on the ground. And there's a personal connection there. Yeah. Well, as drones came in, you don't have. that personal connection. You're talking. to somebody who's in the desert in. Nevada controlling a drone that's flying. over Afghanistan. They don't know you. They don't really give a [ __ ] about you, you know, because there's no personal. connection. And I I think that that. a lot of this stuff is happening because. of lack of the lack of personal.

connections. M. I think that between the violence that's. that's seen everywhere and and how. graphic it is nowadays and the. lack of you know human interaction. is desensitizing. kids and they don't value. life the same that that that that. we used to. I mean, so can we could we agree that.

not me and you, but I think collectively. I'm asking just this out loud. if we could agree that. cuz what I tend to do is I hear that and. I I want to say these kids have a. character issues or they got moral. issues. It sounds to me like it's less character. and moral issues. And there's a set of. skills that we as the adults in their. world have not imparted on them.

And if we can go back and not go back, that's just such. we. Yeah. the parents. I mean, lack of. lack of personal connection within the. family because you go out to you go out. to dinner, you go out to lunch, you go. to the mall. and you see parents. glued to the phone all the time, you. know, just like you were saying, 2 in. apart. And here's the thing, though, my. six-year-old daughter, if I'm in there scrolling on my phone,

she says, "Hey, Dad, look at this. picture." And the picture is like of I. don't dragons and wolves. I don't know. what it is. It's some world she lives in. sometimes. I don't know what she's. talking. I don't want to look at it. I'm. trying to look at something on. Instagram. And I'll scroll and go, "Yeah, that's cool, honey. That looks. nice." And she'll say, "Dad, look." And. I'll look at it. I'll go, "Ah, that's. scary." And I'll go back here. She. doesn't have the verbal skill set, the. cognitive capacity to say, "Hey, man. I'm growing up quick. I'm more important. than that." What she thinks in her.

little six-year-old body is that screen. is more beautiful and more important. than me. Something about me is less than than. that and I need to fix that because dad. dad's supposed to love his daughter and. he loves that more than me. Something. must be wrong with me, right? And. parents, it's it it goes back to us. I've got to teach my son the skill of. this is real life. This is what real. life looks like. And we could get as. esoteric as commercial farming, like.

taking death out of our lives on a. daily. I put that's in the chapter in. this book. Like we distance oursel from. death so much. We outsource funerals. We. outsource our food. We outsource. anything that's uncomfortable. and we create this bubble around us. Um, and I love comfort, man. I like. leather chairs. I like air conditioning. I like comfort. But I got to head back into discomfort, back into reality, right? The world. doesn't care what I feel my truth is. This is how truth is, right? And yeah, I.

think you're right. I think I think the. kids get so separate from reality and. consequence and. truth that man, I'm angry. I'm just so. enraged and this is how I can solve this. problem or this this will stop the hurt, right? Yeah. And man, then you're off to the races. I I think some of the cyber bullying and. [ __ ] plays a part as well. Absolutely. You know, I mean, it doesn't stop. It doesn't stop. And. then there's just the pylon effect, man. Yeah. I mean, that's some serious [ __ ].

these kids are going through nowadays to. to to. And again, they're kids. Yeah. And we don't let them buy cases of beer. and we don't let them drive and we don't. let them fill in the blank. We give them. these stupid boxes and say, "Make good. choices." Man, I I it just. they they gave my granddad, he's an he. he passed away a few years ago. He's an. amazing man. World War II vet. He's. awesome guy. When he was a little kid, they give him cigarettes cuz it kept. kids calm.

They gave him cigarettes. Yeah. It was like, "Ah, give him a. cigarette. Calm down.". And now we know that's insane. I'm. confident that that's how we'll look. back and be like, "Y'all just gave. children these portals to Yeah, we did. That's stupid. I I'm confident of that. I hope you're right.". I mean, us. Yeah. Well, I mean, you're doing it. Yeah. We'll see, man. It's tough. It's. tough. No, it's hard swimming up to that stream. What about suicide? Man, you you a lot. of vets. What about it?

What do you hear? What are you seeing? I see a lot of my friends dying because. of suicide. Yeah. Cuz they're unhappy. And uh and now I see that spilling out. into the masses. And um. vets are killing themselves for very. different reasons. I I think. Why do you think Why do you think they. are? I think there's a couple reasons. I. think one is. the. inability to reinvent yourself. I think is a big thing.

Um that it's not really discussed a lot. I think a lot of people. it's definitely a lot of past trauma you. know but. also especially for people that came. from kind of my sector of the military. and the special operations world. I. mean, you're you're there's nowhere else. to go. You're at the you're at the tip. of the spear. You are the best of the. best. And then when you leave, none of those. skills.

translate. Then you're just Dan selling. insurance, man. It just. you literally are. I became a real. estate agent after failed miserably. Yeah. But um but uh I I think it's I think it. takes even even not even in just that. sector, but. there's a feeling you get being in war. and combat when you're engaging. being engaged. And you're not ever going to feel that. again,

you know. And I'm not. I'm not saying necessarily it's a good. feeling, but it's an addictive feeling. Yeah. Can I can I get beneath that? Yeah. Going back to an original conversation. we were having earlier. Um. I have to imagine. something as cheesy as the connections I. have still to this day. I'm in my 40s. now. to the kids that I played high school.

football, super 5A high school in Texas. If I saw one of if I heard the name of. one of those guys, I'd be like, "Yeah, let me give him a buzz. Let me call. them." Right? Guys haven't talked to in. 20 years. Yeah. I still feel a I can't imagine the. exponential. difference of camaraderie and. connection. So, I can imagine being in a. room or being down a hall and the. bullets are flying, but it feels like. beneath that there's a level of trust.

I'll never forget my buddies as is a. seal. I asked him, I just had a thought, do you love the guys you were on like uh. on uh mission with? Not not romantic you. want to date them, but did you love. them? And he said something to the effect of. it was a unfathomable. connective love. It was a deep unique. love that was that I know for a fact he. will die for me. Yeah. And that is something that is hard.

to replicate in a suburb, you know, four years later. And I wonder. unplugging people from. that level of camaraderie. Absolutely. Is that it ultimately? Cuz then that's a. set of skills. Then I've got to teach. men and women you got to go make. friends. And I know it's going to be. awkward and they're going to be. different friends than you've ever. experienced, but that ends up being number one. instead of all this other, you know, I mean, like, you got to go. get plugged into a community.

It's going to be weird and it's going to. be awkward and it's going to like like. it is for everybody. I I'm trying to get. at what are some some tactical things. people can do. And I always come back. to, man, it's got to be lonely. getting out and coming back and then all. a sudden I'm just living in a suburb. with a nice house in a nice suburban. I. think I should be happy, but I'm missing. that he'll die for me. I think that goes back to reinventing. yourself though, too, because. it's rebuilding your community also, right? Yes. Because, you know, these guys, myself included,

you know, we're proud of what we did. We. were the pinnacle of I mean it's going. to the All-Star game and being picked. for it, you know, and then you come home. and guys can't. This is something I struggled with. All. the other [ __ ] is pretty wellnown, you. know, survivors guilt. Yeah. Yeah. Blood and guts and all that. All that. kind of stuff, right? And the camaraderie, missing being part. of that. Yes. I think where guys really. struggle and and it's not getting enough. light is reinventing themselves. Being.

able to box that up. Yeah, I was a SEAL. and I worked at CIA and that doesn't. define who the [ __ ] I am. I box that [ __ ] up and I put it away. Yeah, I'm proud of it. I did it. It was awesome. I would love to experience a part of it. It's not who I am. But this is what I do now, you know? And. we had this conversation. downstairs. I'm not a [ __ ] operator. anymore now. Now I'm a YouTuber. That's what my son I was talking to him. the other day and I was like we were. just talking trash and I was like dude I.

was the dean of students at a billion. dollar university and he goes, "Dad, you're a YouTuber." And I was like, "Oh. man, like it hurt, right?". Yeah. It's funny. It's also true. It's what I do. There's a lot that goes into this. And. now. I have a successful channel, but I. reinvented myself. I faced my fears. I. learned new [ __ ] I learned how to run. all these cameras. I learned how to. video edit. I learned how to. photo edit. I learned how to. read algorithms. I all that kind of.

[ __ ] I reinvented and I invested my. time and now. I have this, you know, I was able to. reinvent myself and I think. I was able to reinvent myself into other. communities and learn how to communicate. with people that aren't typ. and and so we got a culture that tells. us. just be confident. I think that's. nonsense. I think confidence comes from. accomplishment. Accomplishment comes. from taking another step after another.

step after another step and. you've regained confidence because you. took a step and I learned a new thing. and that opened this door then I got to. learn these things, right? So now I I. don't know it it feels like there's just. this rebalancing of I'm confident again, right? And I think that's the story of. life cuz I'm confident in my marriage. right now and then something's going to. happen or I'm going to get old or one of. our parents is going to pass away and. then that confidence is going to get. wobbly again and here we are back. learning again. It's can I get back up? Can I get back up? Can I get back up?

Yeah. Um that to me feels like the the arc of. life, right? It's a great way to put it. Yeah. That's that's incredible, man. that the. the. there's a there's a suicide researcher. out of Florida State um last name is. Joiner and he gave me the the uh not me. personally, but he put out a framework. for suicide that has has proven true. over my career and I we talked offline. I've done too many funerals. I've been.

in too many houses. I've cleaned up too. many suicide scenes. The heartbreaking. suicide scenes to clean up were the ones. that. it was a teenager or a young. professional or a veteran. who took so much time. to carefully. set up their scene so it would be the. least impact on the people they loved. Damn. And they couldn't ex they there. was something there that didn't allow. them to realize if I love them that that.

this much that I don't want my brains. all over this pl like I love them so. much I'm going to wrap myself up in. three shower curtains and this and this. and this. They love me too. Couldn't see it. And. Joiner provides this framework that is. do you have the means? Have you. practiced? Do you know how to do this. right? Do you know what you're doing? Um, I think the framework is do you have. you have opportunity, right? Do you have. a gun? Do you have the pills? You have. thing. Do can you get over that hump?

Can you actually do this? Every cell in. the human body is designed for one. thing. That's to get to tomorrow. Can. you override that system? And I think. that's what makes military folks. particularly lethal is they've practiced. overriding their innate systems. They go. into challenges, right? Instead of our. natural inclination to move. And the. third one was just like a lead weight in. my chest was perceived burdensomeness. I. think that's the three, but I know the. burdensome one is accurate because it. weighed on me for a long time. It's. people who start to think not that I.

don't want to hurt anymore that I'm. frustrating. People would be better off. if I wasn't here. And that is that felt. like something I could speak into on the. outs speaking in like the other stuff. may be true. You are not a burden. The. world isn't going to be better off with. you not here. That means we're going to. have to walk through discomfort together. to get you on the other side of. confidence, of skills, of reinventing. yourself, of getting a new community. But you're not a burden. Like we got to.

we got to work through that one. And. over and over. I just want this hurt to. stop. I want to stop and I'm tired of. being a disappointment. I'm tired of not. being who my parents thought I was going. to be. I'm tired of letting my wife. down. I'm tired of drinking again and. drinking again. And I'm would just be. better if I wasn't here. And that tends. to be the message if I can point on. that. You're not a burden. You're not a. burden. You're not a burden. Um. and then I think we're in a dude I think. we're in an oxygen tank.

We talked about right at the beginning. about hope. Like end of time sells. It just does, man. Yeah. And. I mean, if you The climate's going to. kill us in 25 years. The Republicans are. going to kill us in 25 years. China's. going to kill us in 14 years. Russia's. going to kill us. The The only news that. makes its way through our ecosystem is. ends here.

Yeah. Why does anybody want to be a part of. that, man? That's a damn good question. I don't want to be a part, right? And so. either we got to call it, right? Yeah. Like time's up everybody. I don't think. that's true. We have to say, let's do something. different, right? Let's change the. narrative a little bit. And there was. something unifying about, you know what, let's just go to the moon. Let's go. there, right? Let's let's let's do some. things this way. Let's stop evil here. Let's unite over some things. Let's. let's unify over some things over a.

common shared purpose other than they're. going to kill us, this going to kill us, that's going to kill us, we're all going. to die here. I don't be a part of that, man. And I. get the impulse to just be like, "Dude, I'm out.". You know what I mean? Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Well, to kind of wrap things up, actually, first, do you think there's. anything else that's contributing to. the decline in mental health that's. going on right now? I think if there's one chief failure of.

the mental health community and of which. I'm a part of. So I think one of the. things that we have not done a good job. of is over the last 150 years but. especially um the last 25 last 20 is. we've convinced people that if you get. your thoughts in the right order then. you'll be mentally well. You'll be. healthy. You got to get your thoughts in. the right order. And that's the exercise. and that is part of it.

But we have completely discounted the. importance of doing action behavior. change just doing things differently, right? And so I can think about. thinking about thinking about things all. day long. The research is super clear. about the benefits of exercise on your. cognitive awareness, on your on your. mental health. There's some really good. stuff on eating well. There's some. really good stuff about going to be with.

friends even though you don't want to. I. just want to go to bed. Like I got a. rule in my house cuz I'm I'm an. introvert and I tend to just kind of. huddle up a little bit. Um if somebody. invites me to go watch the fights and my. first thought is, dude, I just want to. go to bed. I have to go. I have I it's a. it's a non-negotiable. got to go because. I know I've never gone to watch the. fights with a group of guys and come. home sad that I went. It's always good. that I went. Even I stay up too late and. I end up eating a bag of Doritos that I. shouldn't have. Like.

the camaraderie and the we're all we. don't even have to look at each other. We can all just sit and face the TV this. way, right? We don't even have to. communicate, but we're all doing a thing together. So, um I think we have to stop. discounting the importance of. uh our feelings are important. They're. they're they're signals that our body. gives us and they often lie to us. And. so, I got to feel that stuff. Cool. I. don't feel like working out. Doesn't get. a vote. I'm going to exercise. I don't I. feel like eating a cheeseburger. Cool.

I'm going to go eat this salmon that I. got in the car, right? I've I don't feel. like hanging out with my friends. I got. to go hang out with my friends. If we. could create a series of things that I'm. going to go do and be conscious of our. thoughts, um I think that's the path. forward. And we tend to bifurcate. I'm. just going to grind it and kill it and. go crush it. Well, good. That's a recipe. for you're going to burn yourself out. You're going to start hating everybody. And then I'm the worst thing that ever. happened to me. I'm the worst thing I. ever did. I'm just a bottle of feelings.

and that's all I'll ever be. And that's. not true either. And so I think we've. got a a. we we've just sat down and I almost I. almost wonder what what therapy would. look like if we did it on a treadmill. instead of on a couch, right? Like it uh. that probably makes for a better meme. than a reality. But um there's something. about let's start acting. Let's start. changing the way we talk. Let's start. changing the way we talk to ourselves. Dude, if you're like me, I talk to. myself in a way, dude, that if I heard. somebody talk like that to the woman at. the register at a grocery market, I'd go.

to jail. I I wouldn't let you can't talk. to her that way. And dude, I talk to. myself. You suck. You're the worst. freaking dad. I do that to myself all. the time. And it just becomes the stew that. fires off the cortisol, adrenaline, and. now we're off to the race. So, it's it's. I got to start doing stuff different, man. And I think then you'll start to see the. the the turn be made. And man, again, I. remain pretty optimistic. I think we got. a got a hoot of a century ahead of us. Yeah. But also, man, it just takes a.

couple of dads like you and me and. people listening to this. What. because a lot of people are already down. that road. What. for people that are. going down that road, you know, whether. they're in the beginning of depression. or or in the thick of it, what are. how do people get ahead of it? You know, I think a lot of people wait. too damn long before they start to seek.

any type of advice or help or or. anything. What. when do they start? Every single uh faith tradition that. I've know anything about worldwide, historical and otherwise, has some. aspect of something we call confession. And we've made confession about saying. all the bad things you've done. It's more the act of sitting down and. looking at somebody and saying, "I'm not. okay.". And. I think it's the great David Kesler, the.

grief researcher, who says, "Grief. demands a witness. There's got to be something that I can. sit down and and look at somebody and. say, "Hey, I'm not doing all right.". That is that's step one into healing. Saying it out loud, writing it. People. would call my show and I was new to this. whole thing and they were calling in so. often and none of these calls made the. air I don't think but they would they'd. end up eding them out. They'd call me. and tell me, "Hey, I just cheated on my. wife. I don't know what to how do I have. this conversation with her?" Um, I hit. my kid a little too hard. What do I like.

what do I do now? I fill in the blank. My first question to them was like, "Dude, why are you calling me?". To a person, every answer was, "Dude, I. got nobody to talk to. I got nobody." And so it's creating a. context, creating a world so that. um if I get to that moment, I can uh. reach out and call somebody. Now, you. and I live, we were just talking, we. live 15 minutes apart, right? Out in the. woods out here. We live 15 minutes. apart. Nice community. It would be insane for you to pick up.

the phone and just be like, "Hey, man. Uh," you know what I mean? You don't. know me that well. you've got. but if you come over and help me sight. in a couple of rifles for deer season. and my kids are playing with your kid. and your wife and my wife become friends. and you go hunting with me and then you. come help me mow my now we're creating a. context by which I'm going to feel okay. saying hey tell me about this man cuz. I'm not seeing this right what I'm. saying and we tend to jump into this.

without building this it's like trying. to do the CrossFit games without doing. any pull-ups before you can't do that. man. yeah So, I don't know. It's kind of. rolling. What do you think about like first. signs? Should it be. I'm not happy, so maybe you should start. looking at. talking to somebody or or. changes or. to me rage and anger tend to be. that's first sign. When you find yourself saying if they. would just and I don't care who they is.

and I don't care what just is. When you. say that word, when you've distilled the. world down into a them and an action, that's probably you. Okay? When you find yourself, somebody cuts. you off in traffic. and you're overcome with rage, right? Somebody cuts me off and I start down a. path, man. My brain, it's just. automatic. That guy sucks. He's just a. drug addict. He's trying to kill. everybody. Over time, I can do the work. And when people say do the work, it's. changing my default setting so that that. guy cuts me off and I take a big deep.

breath and I exhale and I whisper a. quick prayer and say, "Man, I hope you make it to see your. wife at the hospital before she goes." I. get to pick the story that I'm putting. into that car about why that guy just. cut me off. Yeah. When I find myself watching the news and. the other day, man, I was driving to. work. This is about two weeks ago. I was. driving to work. I had a bunch of stuff. I had to take. Like I had wardrobe. changes. I got a guitar I was taking. I. was taking all kind of stuff. Dude, I. left one important thing in my house.

about 20 minutes away from my home. And. I just started screaming in the car. Rage screaming, dude. And it was at. myself like, "You idiot again." Then I. started laughing cuz I know. And then I. called Justin who's a he's a coach for. me. He's somebody that I talk to that. he's a counselor role in my life. like. yelling at myself in the car again. He. was like, "So, right." But I that was. the trigger for me. Like, I knew. I I want to yell at this high school.

referee at my kids's little league game. That is not a problem with him. That's a. problem with me. It's a freaking little. league game. Why am I so mad? Every time. I see Joe Biden's face, I want to That's. me. That's on me, right? He doesn't have. the power to enrage me that way. I'm not. going to give that up. So what is it. about my world that I Right. So it's. taking ownership of how I feel and rage. and disconnection is often that's the. other one is people usually do this they. go at you or they run they they.

disengage and if my wife comes home and. I feel myself just want to turn or I. just head into the bathroom or uh men. are notorious about wife comes home and. I'm just going to go spend an hour in. the bathroom, right? I'm just going to. close the door and turn the fan on and. just hang out for a while. That's that's. that's just disengaging, right? Yeah. What is it about her? My two kids come. in and they're a lot. They're loud. I'm just gonna get away. Like, those are. signs, but I need to sit down with. somebody that you love, somebody you. trust, or a professional, and just say,

"I'm I'm finding myself disengaging from. life. I'm finding myself wanting to. swing and hit everything, which means. I'm activated, and I shouldn't be. activated by my life." Right? Those are. a couple ways just to know. Yeah. And there is no uh like you know. on Dave show they people come do their. debtree scream. I don't think there's. such thing as a anxietyfree scream like. I'm not anxious right as soon as you do. that you're going to walk out parking. lot someone's going to call you call and. say hey mom's got cancer right the goal. isn't to not have anxiety or to not ever.

have seasons of depression not to be. sad. The goal is can I create a firm. foundation so when those things come I. can weather that storm. I got a tribe. I. got a gang. I got a community of people. I can call that can bring me food that. can be with my wife when I take my kid. to the ER. Whatever I got to do, I got. people with me, right? It's it's not to. live a. non-happy life. I think happy is like uh. cocaine and cotton candy, man. It's just. wispy, right? Yeah. Happiness is comes in glimpses. It comes. in moments. It's not the end goal.

That's great advice. Do you think the. mental health the the the stigma to go. get help? I personally feel like that's. starting to go away and it's it's. becoming more accepted, too. Yeah. And again, I I it's a double-edged. sword. It's become. I'm so grateful that people can say the. words, "I'm not okay." Right. If you. talk to some old World War II vets, I've. heard. I would have done anything to tell.

somebody what I was going through, right? And I didn't have I It didn't. exist. the words in my mouth weren't. even formed, right? There was no such. thing as depression. There was just go to work and just go to. work and I would have done it like like. I've seen some of those videos where. they're just weeping like man I would. love to have told somebody what I. actually did or what I saw or what I. experienced. So I think there's beauty. in that. My fear is that we were pathizing normal. life. The number of people who came into my. office and said, "Hey, I've got. depression. My dad just walked out on my.

mom." I'd say, "Hey, that's not. depression. you're sad and you're. supposed to be sad, right? Um, you saw somebody get shot and. killed, that's supposed to be hard to. digest. Like, if you are able to just. digest that and go to the supermarket, probably should go talk to, right? So, we've pathized any sort of uncomfortable. feeling and made it a diagnostic and. made it a crisis and made it something. you got to go talk to a professional. about. And so, it's a double-edged. sword. I love that people are talking.

about it. people are going to get the. help they need, going to say, "Hey, I'm. not okay.". I think it's incumbent on the mental. health community to not throw medicine. at somebody. Medicine's important, man. I've I've had to take medicine for a. season. It's not discounting that. It's. not the solution to every problem right. out of the gate all the time. Um it's. asking somebody or being honest with. somebody saying, "Yeah, your mom died.". It's called grief and you're not you're. going to be in a black hole for a season. and that's right and good. You need to.

have a community with you, right? You. need to get up and you need to make sure. you got purpose in the day. You got to. do some of these things. You're not. broken, man. You're supposed to be sad. It's it's living into some of those. things, right? Your wife cheats on you. You're supposed to be devastated, man, cuz you went all in on this, right? Supposed to hurt and be hard. And now, let's excavate the scene and let's. rebuild something new together or let's. call it whatever the thing is, but let's. don't pathize life, right? But yes, I am. grateful that people, especially.

in the circles I've run in, tough guys. who are strong, who are have seen stuff. and done stuff, are now able to say out. they've got permission to say, "I'm not. okay." And I think that's that's. incredible. Yeah, I do, too. Yeah. I didn't even think about the other side. of that, though. I'm glad you brought. that. It can be disempowering, too. Yeah. But well, John, I know you got some. You're a busy guy. No, it's good. And uh but I just want to. say thank you. Uh link in your book. below in the description. And uh before you do go, what do you got.

coming up? Oh man, we're running and gunning. Just. got the show and uh we're about to hit. the fall, so it's the live event season. So we'll be out on the road doing a lot. of live events and. doing all kind of wild stuff, man. Nice. Well, I'll link everything below. in the description. And hey, thanks for feeding my. addiction, man. Hey, my there's plenty more where that. came from. So, these are come with some. insulin. I I don't know how you did. this. These like the best gummy bears. and I'm a connoisseur. Like, they're so. good, man. They're so good. Thank you.

Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you for hospitality, brother. I'm. grateful. My pleasure. Best of luck to you. You, too, brother. Thank you. Cheers. [Music]. Hey everybody, I'm Sean Ryan. Click here. to subscribe to the Sha Ryan Show. YouTube channel for the hottest and most. compelling interviews that you will not. see anywhere else. I've also made a.

playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find. You. can find that right here.