Deadmau5 | SRS #91

happy New Year everybody this is the. first episode of 2024 and let me tell. you it is a. banger and 2024 is going to be one hell. of a year it's going to be hard to top. 2023 but we'll do it we always do so. anyways this is a story about a man who. made it big by not complying with the. typical industry mandate.

BS went off on his own paved his own way. and it paid off big time and I happen to. be a huge fan of this man's music I. can't wait to get this episode out it's. been in the can for a little while and. I've been so excited to get it out if. you guys get anything out of these. episodes please head over to Apple and. Spotify leave us a. review like comment and subscribe to the. channel and for those of you that.

already know actually those that don't. know there are tons of free reels you. can download create your own thing put. them on your channel whatever social. media platform you want monetize it make. money all we ask is that you tag the. show ladies and gentlemen without. further Ado please welcome my new friend. Joel. Zimmerman also known as dead mouse to. the Shawn Ryan Show love you all cheers. and happy happy New.

[Music]. Year Joel Zimmerman welcome to the Shan. Ryan Show man this is great I like this. I'm glad you like it dude I am like. pumped to have you here absolutely I. didn't tell you last night but I am a. I'm a huge fan man really yes like. what's like since like forever ago since. man I don't know when it started but I.

have done the majority of my partying. career has been to your music oh that's. cool man yeah yeah yeah let's do it. overseas when I was fighting like I get. that I love your stuff. man I get a lot of emails from uh you. know active service dudes and and stuff. like this saying hey I'm over here and. you know we listen to your while I'm. doing this I'm like wow that's crazy. yeah man we used to listen to you before. uh before operations that's crazy. getting ready so oh it was uh doing my.

part yeah it's pretty surreal but um but. let me give you an intro here real quick. so Joel Zimmerman AKA dead mouse one of. the top EDM music producers in the world. you've been at it for roughly 28. years you brought dubstep to the. mainstream five Platinum singles seven. Grammy nominations one of them was what. two days ago two days ago yeah two day. which one I didn't even announce it on. the plane are you serious did you did.

you see I was I was on my way um to the. show actually this morning and I uh I I. I Doom scroll that's me I love it like I. don't know it's not like you know like. I'm a sist or anything but I just I. like weird subreddits and one of them is. called I'm the main character and it's. just you know like clips of people in. public like just filming other people. onst to them being absolute weirdos and. there was a young woman on the flight on. a United flight or something like that.

and it's one of those like you know I'm. in a seat aisle phone things and this. lady starts singing on the plane and I. was like oh man what is this like and. then she's going off about how she was. just nominated for a Grammy and and I'm. like reading this and all the comments. and they're like oh it does so gry it. turns out that that young woman actually. was but like as a backup singer on an. album that was re some gospel album that. was released I was like holy no and. she's like telling the flight attendant. tell you yelling at the plane like while.

they're all like you know eating their. chicken Andor beef you know and they. like I just got nominated for G me like. there were like five claps and then a. lot of like deep size like yo can I just. enjoy my fight you didn't chime in on. the comments yeah. no I want to I wish I was on that flight. though programmer developer adrenaline. junkie innovator.

and you know one of the things that I. really like about you and we just kind. of spoke about it downstairs. is I'm getting people on the show that. don't conform. to society's Unwritten rules and um what. I mean by that is is you're an innovator. and your music. is in my opinion very it's just very. unique it's very different than and.

everybody else that's out there and and. I just want to tell you man I really. appreciate um the fact that you have. that courage to just go out do your own. thing and it works and it's awesome oh. cool yeah yeah I mean I I I I guess I've. kind of always you know did my own thing. so to speak but but you know with that. too you do kind of have to conform to. some things you know what I mean where. it's like where you can still be.

you know at these events where other. people were doing similar things to you. where there's some kind. of uh cohesion yeah you know otherwise. you get just absolute chaos and. Randomness and then that's where you get. that weird insane genius line kind of. thing happening you know and uh yeah so. but that that's cool like I um I try I. make an effort you know to kind of. invent it shows I mean you got a very. it's it's just a very. distinct Style or sound or or or.

whatever you guys call it in the music. industry but it's it's awesome cool so. thank you for being here um yeah but. everybody before we go too deep. everybody gets a gift. oh oh oo nothing crazy just something to. enjoy on the way. home oh gummy bears gummy bears 8 ounces. per bag Le they're legal what are they.

it's just Gummy Bears it's just candy. okay in 2023 I'm like can I eat these do. I have to make plans should I cancel my. day before I I pounce some of these. actual gummy bears dude it's just gummy. bears man that's amazing I got to put. these around the house and they going to. be like bro I didn't know you were into. thatass but um thank you so you're. welcome so uh we kind of met through. well we didn't kind of meet through we. met through Bryce.

and uh who I just interviewed and his is. coming out on Thanksgiving and um he had. mentioned to me that he knows you and I. said oh man I would love to I would love. to interview that dude we made it happen. real quick yeah so how do you know Bryce. um I I've known of Bryce right forever. um he's a nerd core rapper dude you know. like and that's like the one side of him. and we all know the other side of him. and he's just a super smart guy good. dude to bounce.

ideas off of and and talk Tech and nerd. and LOL stuff and all that uh so. we've been me and him have like. circulated in those communities uh like. since the dawn of the internet basically. so he's just a he's an. OG and uh you know and I have you know. always had the utmost respect for the. dude and you know the things he's done. and um you know it's. just all his approach to solving. problems I guess you know in the.

technical world and stuff like that when. it comes to like Annie sack and stuff. like that so uh. we uh we actually kind of really got. together when he had posted uh an. Acappella of one of his songs on the. website and uh he he he became friends. with one of my great friends uh Steve. Duda for a minute there who's another. software developer but he he does more. audio software and I remember doing this. song and it was almost complete.

and I was like man I got to get I'm just. like you know finish the track and and. me and Steve are sitting in the studio I. was like I'm trying to just run through. what. rapper would be great on this track kind. of thing and then uh Steve mentioned he. goes oh you should get Bryce. um and then I was like oh yeah and I was. looking him up again I was like oh he's. got all this like all this new stuff and. N no no and then in his folder he had AC. caelis which means it's just his voice. with no music and stuff like that so he.

would like he just put that up on his. site for people to use I guess so I just. I literally Wonder to one the AR capella. and then laid it in the track and it. worked perfectly and I was like a this. is the dream okay cool and I'm like give. me Bryce's like actual contact and he's. like yeah it's just well I I won't say. but the email is so blatantly hilarious. you know and I was like oh my God like. this guy's he's still legit you know so. I hit him up and he was like hell yeah. let's let's put this out officially so. then easy Breezy I own the label and I.

control everything so it's just like. yeah let's do it that's awesome yeah how. how far back do you guys go well like I. I mean like in birds of a feather way. you know what I mean like we're like. we've been besties for a while it's just. you know I'm sure he's he's heard my. name in passing I've heard his name in. passing but. like late 90s the late 90s that long. yeah that's like over 20 years yeah yeah. yeah yeah but but knowing of each other.

not necessarily interacting or uh you. know working on the same kind of. projects we were in kind of two. different camps I was in uh hash Audio. Apps and I'm pretty sure he was more. 2600 kind of guy I I don't know actually. I we never really talked about it what. does that mean 2600 2600 is like a just. an. old um IRC group or uset group that just. like Hackers from back in the day like. when it was all dial up there was no.

internet there was it was an it was pre. AOL it was pre you know uh Netscape yeah. you know it's just uh you know just like. phone hacker dudes and people who. exploited like facts data modem lines. and stuff like that and it was just a. little group of dudes so this is like. this is your childhood kind of yeah yeah. but I I I never got into it deep as some. of my friends right so like I'll I'll. admit it I I was a bit of a script Kitty.

when I was a kid because like the. internet for me was like IRC or. something like that and then the the. most damag you know evil hacker stuff I. would do is is run some like teardrop. script on IRC because I was the only kid. in the neighborhood who had like a a. cable modem that it was brand new and. you can get like a megc so you could. ping flood this kid you don't like off. the IRC Channel we Kline them and we do. all this like dumb stupid kid you. know we're talking like 15 16 years old.

you know just you know trying to have. the big internet dick you know yeah and. that stuff because there was there were. really no like Inplay systems that you. know were in our reach to like really. get involved and we didn't care. about you know white hatting anything. you know we just were just dumb little. shits it's all it was all brand new B. then H yeah yeah it was it was cool and. that's what was interesting you know so. it's like uh a lot of um I think maybe. that's like kind of contributable to.

like why I I might do things a little. unconventionally a lot of times because. I I I honestly believe that I was. probably the only kid in high school. that was like even into that thing I. didn't have a group you know what I mean. in like in real life you know of dudes. hey come over let's hang out let's make. a BBS you know which was that was the. internet it was boltin board system so. you had to like you know pick up your. phone put it on a thing and use a 2600 B.

rate modem which is like unbelievably. slow compare compared to like today and. it was text only so all the artwork. weren't jpegs and stuff like that those. those even weren't a thing it was it was. ay art so like pictures of things that. were made up of letters and numbers you. sometimes see it but that's what it was. back in the day and we used to we used. to play games with um it's before email. was in it actually a genie came first.

and then email and stuff like that but. but what you had to do is you you would. start a computer up and you would run a. BBS like a bulletin board system so your. computer would act as a server and only. one person could connect to you at a. time so if you call a BBS and it's busy. it means someone's on it so it's like. it's imagine an internet when you go to. the web page but the web page can only. be displayed to one person at a time and. until they're done using it so that's. what kind of how it be BBS worked right.

but then then Renegade BBS uh I think. was the first one to support what was. called a dual node BBS meaning two. people could be on it but you needed two. phone lines to do it so two people could. be on the the same BBs at the same time. and that just blew my mind right because. a guy from Toledo Ohio and I could be in. there and we could be playing legend of. the red dragon together or or you know. like which is like a text based uh RPG. kind of dumb thing you know where you. could log in log out let someone else go. on and stuff like that but there was a.

point where you know two people could be. connected at the same time and I'm like. oh my God I'm talking to a guy in too. for free like or is you know what I mean. you still have to pay long distance if. you had to call a BBS in Toledo right. but it was just it blew my mind and uh. you know I was like oh what are you. doing I'm like I'm talking to a person. and they're like okay that's NE you know. I can't wrap my head around that but you. do you boo well how old were you when. this was. happening like 1.

14 I don't know dude it's a BL I was. young I was a kid well let's get I was. still I was it was probably like graded. seven so yeah probably when I was like. 13 this stuff is fascinating to me let's. let's dive into your childhood where. where did you grow up I grew up in the. thriving Metropolis of nagra Falls. Ontario so the pretty side of nager. Falls we had the like the cuz the Falls. is actually on the American side M so. but we get the view. which is pretty.

funny yeah they're like we want the. false like fine have them you know it's. like a big thing right and you have to. look over to see them they're like okay. fine so that's where they drew the line. I guess and um yeah it was interesting. man because it's um it's a very like. touristy place so Growing Up Your. Destiny was working at Marin land or a. hotel or you know some tourist. attraction thing you know that was it. like it's it's very touris well I don't.

it still is I guess but like um that was. your destiny you know and um so part of. grade school was like now I'm seeing it. now is that they would teach a lot of uh. uh French and Spanish and and stuff like. that so that you could accommodate you. know like cuz you're going to you know. what I mean it's like it's it was kind. of depressing when you think about it. now but yeah they really kind of like. kind of groomed you up to be in the. service industry if you lived in agar. Falls for a minute you know not too many.

people that I know like kind of got out. and went and did not nagger Falls things. were you in the service. industry uh no no no no I escaped it. like I mean I just didn't do anything I. was just a little in my mom's house. playing on the computer like trying to. think of a way out you know yeah um I'm. not saying like that's every kid in ag. fall I might be over exaggerating that. but that's what it felt like you know.

what I mean so yeah um what were you. into I was into music and computers and. and computers were so like a fad you. know they weren't people weren't using. them at work you know or for workk or. anything like that because these things. were that was like the dawn of. the the the 286 you know what I mean. which was like the hobby machine plus. you know um and they didn't really have.

courses in school that had anything to. do with a computer but they did uh you. know when I started getting to high. school they they started to introduce. networking or simple things or or. whatever and that was cool but like the. computer when I was a kid wasn't a tool. it was more of like a hobby machine it. was like a a Nintendo plus you know for. whatever you know so yeah we had a. typewriter you know so you you grew up. in the age where it went from the.

typewriter to the computer so how did. you get into. computers well like what was the. fascination the fascination was was the. little PC speaker the beep that's it. there were no dac's there were no sound. cards and the first computers that I. owned they were just like little PC. speakers and they could just emulate. monophonic tones and stuff like that and. uh at that time too my parents enrolled. me into like uh like classical piano and. stuff just like to do after school. they're done work and then I go home.

kind of so I I did that for a while and. I I got I got a lot of like classical. like kind of drilled into me and I was a. little reluctant um because it was more. we spent more time like doing drills. than farting around you know playing. songs I like you know or something like. that and. um I developed really great muscle. memory like so that I I I think in some. alternate reality I I would have been a. great. but I just I like the computer and I.

wanted. to do what I was doing there on the. computer but there was no software. really available for PC mind you we had. um Atari STS which were early PCS that. ran basic as an operating system and. they had some music making capability. but it was midi only meaning that the. computer itself didn't produce audio it. just produced midi signal to go to uh. synthesizers that had that capability to.

do it and there were very few and far. between as there is today for that kind. of thing um and and it was really. expensive for the for the midi gear you. know not so much the computer so there. was like cab and octed and they were. just big pieces of Hardware that you. would you know plug a midi cable into. and it was like a kind of a a some. people might know what I'm referring to. as like a Tracker style of composing. music not so much like not notation or. midi notes and stuff like that and um I.

basically experienced creating music. through the evolution of it through into. the computer age yeah which is crazy. when I think about it how fortunate I am. to be able to see it from when it was. just barely possible to now you know. whereas like I see a lot of like you. know younger people trying to get into. music and they just have all everything. ready to go here's all the tools. not to say that that they're at a.

disadvantage there because they don't. know the history but it's just really. interesting to see where it's kind of. heading and where it's been and what. worked what didn't that kind of thing. from from the start that's uh that. actually brings up I was going to ask. this later but since we're on the. subject my um my producer or my uh. project manager here is also a musici. and uh in a music producer and he had a. question for his name is Elijah sure and. he just wanted to. ask how would you define making it in.

the music industry with the rise of. technology and then he goes on to say. pretty much anybody can make an album in. their bedroom now. well anyone could have for a long time. really I did you know um my my first. album was done on um a a pre- Windows. computer uh on a uh what was called a. Tracker it's actually a software called. imp impulse tracker and and maybe.

another one called scream tracker but. the idea they were both very similar. pieces of software they ran into o and. um you would load samples uh you know. into you know the computer and stuff. like that where it's like they were just. like little wave files or you'd load. them to the the sound cards Ram if you. had any which was a big deal back in the. day but um yeah and then you know might. not have been the best music I've ever. made but you know it was something and. it was it was really cool uh and but.

that was done in a bedroom yeah I think. would I think he's me like Grammy level. like high big pop hit I think he's just. getting at all of. the he is uh how do I describe he's kind. of a traditionalist maybe is what I'm. saying and and I get you and uh and all. these new tools and stuff are coming out. where you really don't have to it's I'm. just talking out of my ass be honest. with it you're bringing up a term called.

uh ITB in the box so everything could be. done on the computer whereas 20 years. ago yeah sure everything could be done. on the computer but generally the. musician would have a mixing console a. synthesizer uh real toore uh an a Adat. for recording you know you it required. some gear if you took it seriously but. but all that gear now has been just. programmed into software that could just. be done on on a computer screen and.

that's it so yeah that's that's I think. that's what he means by that yeah so I. mean you we had kind of spoken last. night about it we're going to go back to. childhood but I'm jumping around here. but um we we had kind of talked about it. last night about some of the about your. music versus some of the other DJs out. there and some of the some of. the OV exaggeration when you see a guy. on set. okay well that's that's like kind of two.

different Arenas I I feel I don't know. um and and I've been harping on it and. I'm sure it's all very readable and look. up but like a DJ traditionally right. this is. like it's it's like it's like talking. about you shouldn't talk about. because you you're always going to bum. somebody out and I and I I don't I I've. always like I don't waste too much time. thinking about it but I've always tried. to think this like. totally Geneva answer for what a DJ is.

you know what I mean because they like. I'm like okay and it's like fundamental. a DJ plays music right he's a he's a. human iPod and. then with all due respect you get dudes. like mix ma Mike and uh you know cubert. and and and DJs who are like technical. scratch DJs who play on whatever and. they're like no this is like an art or. kid koala right who's made an entire. album out of turnt is M and stuff like. that and they like okay yes also a DJ.

but that's different you know what I. mean and then and then a DJ who uses. controllers and no traditional DJ. equipment also DJing you know what I. mean but doing it live there's a guy. right now who's absolutely destroying. everything this guy called Fred again. and he does a lot of you know pad. whacking and stuff like that and you. know is he making an album up there well. he could you know m to a degree you know. what I mean but he's doing a lot of.

sampling he's doing a lot of like you. know cutting and stuff like that and. that's another thing but you could also. say oh he's. DJing you know playing back some. elements of pre-recorded material you. know what I mean so that there's your. answer there's like eight. hundred ways to skin the the DJ cat. right and I think now at least the last. like 10 years people have gotten smarter. to know that he's not up there like just. like a jazz musician creat. original music for you on the Fly I'm so.

glad that ER is gone you know because. when electronic music became you know. more and more popular and um producers. were producing music but then they're. like well what we how are we going to do. this on stage you know cuz this me in. the studio is like listening to the same. Loop for like 30 hours. straight back to back trying to f- tune. you know what I mean that is not. something you could sit through and have. a great time to you know like it's it's. annoying you know it's but it's work you. know it's like.

yeah I don't talk much about money or. the economy let's face it ignoring it. doesn't help either because I believe. the government screws up all the time I. think they let down veterans ship jobs. overseas they help their rich friends. make even more money it is insane do you. really think they care about helping us. out with our money I don't think so. that's one of the reasons why a lot of. folks are stepping away from the. government run systems and starting to. diversify their money into real assets.

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Shan And subscribe upon checkout for 30%. off it's. like a painter you know like you can. watch like a painter like like a finger. painter guy like uh what's his name uh. you see gar Baldi or whatever and he he. he does these like really quick halftime. during a sporting event kind of finger. painting of an artist and it's like boom. it's done that's entertaining because he. can do it in like 5 minutes and and have.

a really cool thing right but if you're. you know try to. imagine a crowd gathered under Leonardo. at the cistin. chapel and this guy's. like you know what I. mean it does put things into perspective. I'm just saying you know what I mean so. it's it's all about the methodology and. the delivery of you know um. good and short or amazing and you know.

High effort yeah so thank you let's. let's let's go back to Childhood now so. we we were talking about how you got. into computers programming a little bit. of hacking yeah how did music come into. play where did the inspiration come from. well it I I think it was it wasn't. music fell in um because I like I think. I was I was decided around you know when.

I was like eight or nine I'm like I. don't care what I do when I'm older as. long as it. involves a little computer you know what. I mean I'll be a graphics designer I'll. be a programmer I'll be a I don't give a. I'll be a little hacker I don't I. don't know you know what I mean so but. but I just I want to be at this computer. I want to be hunched over and unhealthy. in my 40s. so um I that's what I wanted to do but. then you know like I'm thinking okay. well like I I started hobbying music.

myself like researching what little. resource I had I I had to go to the. public library to read up on like. digital audio you know because again. like there was an internet there was. bbs's and there was Archie and gopher. and all that stuff too but very limited. on how to make a Club Banger you know. what I mean like they no it just didn't. even exist so I had to find people you. know that that did that kind of thing. cuz there were electronic musicians back. there were for me you know and uh and. and and while I was interested in it who.

who was who was before you Tears for. Fears they were electronic Nish nails. were doing stuff um very early um like. when they were 10,000 homo Maniacs that. kind of that that era and and stuff like. that uh uh Ministry all that early um. industrial stuff uh skinny puppy I I I. actually leaned more towards I dude Club. Music wasn't even on my radar like the. oh oh no it was all early.

industrial stuff like my dad bought that. remember that Columbia House deal where. you buy like eight CDs for a penny yeah. yeah yeah they come in magazines yeah I. was uh I was one of those kids so um me. too yeah my dad went out and oh I don't. know you know but my dad he's not my. dad's not into music you you won't find. him barefoot in front of the record. player you know with his Harmon Cordon. you know like n no no he just he just. like might as well bought a a receiver.

CD player and the whole thing and we're. just like holy like that's Oh weird. thing to splurge on dad you know like. cuz it's just totally not his thing he's. he's a auto manufacturer guy he worked. at General Motors you know he he drove. around toe Motors and he was just man's. man you know like and and we. weren't very very. um lower middle class upbringing just. standard family you know so it was. really weird to come home from school.

one day and see my dad like unboxing a. CD player you know I was like oh jeez. guys here we go okay so and then he I I. I honestly I'm not like Incredibly Close. with my dad but like he liked some music. like the doors and stuff like that so I. think he just got like the best of the. doors and I don't know Dealers Choice. for the other seven so they sent some. weird right so we got like a. warrant um uh uh Steely Dan the best of. Steely Dan U some you two one and you.

know what I mean just kind of like a. mixed bag of right and I was like. okay well these are the eight CDs we own. and this is what I'm going to do I'm. just going to listen to this. cuz there's nothing else to. do you know really like I was that bored. when I was a kid right so um I would. just find myself sitting in front of the. CD player like just listening to. and and what what I liked was was. The Tears for Fears album was really. cool because like yeah warrant you know.

on YouTube and then uh everything else. was all very you know constructed Steely. Dan was groovy it was cool like but. again I don't think my musical brain was. developed enough to be able to. differentiate between the the play. Styles and stuff like that of these like. stapled musicians who have guitars drums. and bass but they're all kind of doing. their own thing they have their own. style there's Funk there's this and that. but the thing that really stood out was. the tears for fear and I'm like. that's not a guitar those aren't. real drums you know what I mean there. are there it's all you could pick it.

out well yeah of course you could you. know you know a guitar when you hear it. you know what I mean and you know drums. when you hear it and you know a synth. when you hear it you know and you're. like oh wait you know and so I listening. to the tears for fear stuff I was like. wow this is really cool cuz it's all. done by computers obviously has to or. some form of thing you know I was so I. had no idea how this was being. made so you know I got to I got to go. figure it out um so this is before dance. music. was probably out in some pocket.

somewhere but it just wasn't on my radar. at all um this is this had to. be. 19923 you know what I mean like so yeah. there there wasn't there Chicago was. just starting it basically you know in. Detroit and stuff like that or in some. pockets of Europe and like that so. like but again it just never got to me. cuz there was no mass media there's no. internet there's no nothing you just. kind of had to wait so I researched into.

like oh what's tears for FS doing so. differently that that warrant you two. and Steely Dan you know aren't oh well. they're using computers and you know. again like I'm so bummed out and and so. kind of envious of like if a kid today. heard that oh yeah you know what I mean. just YouTube that you know and there it. is you know me I had a I was. swimming in the dark it. sucked so yeah back in my and um that.

was really cool so that was the. connection I think was that that Tears. for Fears off the Columbia House. CD player deal that like stood. out from those other seven albums and I. was like oh okay I mean from what I. understand you you were correct me if. I'm wrong but you were one of the first. to make music from computers in the. electronic space hell no no no dude. not by a generation not even close the.

first to make music with a computer well. with the in the EDM. World nope Roger no I think that's. well how did you get started. then if we're talking about the first to. make music oh Jean jacqu Pere in the 50s. was probably making electronic music no. kidding yeah yeah check out the on. on needline it's a synth it's but it's. not a computer it is a computer but it's. it's not microchips it's valves like.

like. um I don't even know how to. explain this thing you're going to just. have to research this o. e anene or whatever like Jean jacqu Pere. and uh there are some other guys too. like it's just totally escaping me right. now cuz I know someone's going to come. and going um actually but like we're. talking like you know the 50s they were. they were making electronic music no. it's been around that long Doctor. Who those dudes the EMS cynth I have. syns that are twice as old as me that I.

still use today well how did um so what. is it I mean what does it look like when. you started making music I mean cuz it. was I mean I it wasn't it was I wasn't. listening to it I'd never even heard. about it what did it look like what did. it look like making music on a computer. in the early. 90s well it that it could have been a. number of ways really I I my first. computer when I really started making. music I had a.

corg um oh God I can't remember a. poly a rack mount it's it's not a poly 6. it's like a poly 6 but is it's a rack. version of it so meaning it was just a. module okay so no keys just just a box. um and it had some buttons on it and. stuff like that and then it had a midi. in and a midi out and then an audio out. right so what I had to do is I had I had. an Atari St that was basically a.

Commodore 64 more or less that that ran. this software that sent messages to this. box to say hey play this note play that. you know so it's kind of like a little. sequencer thing but that's just one. piece of equipment and and and that was. at a time for me it looked like like you. know electronic music or or making music. uh or accompaniments to your band with. electronic components like a drum. machine or a synthesizer was just coming. of age you know so it means meaning that. like yes it's been around since like you.

know the' 60s and 50s uh Pink Floyd used. were were huge purveyors of electronic. music on the Run was an EMS uh cynthy a. which is like a a really ancient old. synth with like Bank dial kind of vaults. on them and they did. the that's all like that's as far as I'm. concerned yes that's electronic music. not as we really know what it is so if. you say to oh you listen to electronic. music people do not go that far back and.

go oh yeah I love Pink Floyd you know. but I you wouldn't be wrong you know. they employed a lot of that stuff uh The. Beatles too so it's it's in it's in like. doses The Beatles were doing it too yeah. they used uh they used a few electronic. instruments no for sure I had no idea. yeah uh most like Sergeant Pepper stuff. okay like when they started getting a. little weird yeah. hot take I hate The Beetles oh but.

um so when when did you I mean cuz this. was strictly a hobby until what around. 1995 is that true no it was still a. hobby then it was a hobby all the way to. 2000 okay for sure I know cuz I had jobs. that whole time right that's kind of. what I'm getting into yeah right my. first job was uh working for this. guy uh printing t-shirts he. wanted to start like a clothing company. he was like it all right guy he's just. kind of shady but um he wanted to start.

a clothing line like a kind of like. Skate brand kind of stuff too so it. wasn't like H hottie karati. men's wear it was just. literally you know putting drawing logos. in a illustrator and then printing them. and then going to a press and then doing. that and then bringing them literally. down to the store and just selling them. out of a storefront that was fun it's. good learning experience for like what. it's like to have a job you know what I.

mean like it was I I I took nothing from. it you know what I mean I'm just it's. other than yeah okay this is what it's. like to have to wake up at 9: get driven 20 minutes to the mall you. know what I mean and go sit there all. day and just pick my nose and. do this and out at 5:00 and and. make like a couple hundred bucks every. two weeks cool then I worked in a. canery that was that was was a. real job that was that was the. worst job ever for me because I had to.

they in nagara is the best region for uh. pears peaches and wine like niagar on. the lake it's just the way that the. geology is the the soil and stuff like. that they make some of the best wine in. the world down there right no good so. everything grows like crazy out. there right so when Peach and pear. season starts uh it's 24/7 at the. Delonte uh processing plan it's like one. of the big ones but they there's a few. down there but the big one's Del Monte.

and um they when when those are in. season they have to run that 24. 7 so you had two shifts you had. like a day shift night shift so I had to. do the show up at 1 in the. morning can I swear by the way yeah go. ahead sorry cuz I I really do a lot um. so I had to go at like 5: in the morning. till like 2: p.m. you know what I mean I. had that shift right so I'm already just. out of it because this is also when I'm. like learning to make music so I'm like. up all day on a computer and.

then I'm oh I got to go to work. okay cool but I'm like fresh for like an. hour but then I just start fading and. I'm like and I had to I had a number of. jobs there but like but the one I hated. the most was you got to like basically. watch a conveyor belt of uh peaches or. pears depends what you were doing uh and. then you had a little like knife and if. one got away with like a stem on it you. had to and then put it back on the belt. or load the or you had to load the the. peeler machine which was sketchy as far. I can't believe they let like a.

15-year-old kid do this but there's this. machine and they and there there's one. like about six. cups and you have to be fast or. you're going to lose your hand. it was crazy I couldn't believe it like. I I hope they still don't do this and I. but it it was nuts so so these pears and. peaches would come out and you had to go. 1 2 3 4 5 six and then this machine. would just go right and then load them. into this thing and it was like. a like a the open end of a V8 you know. what I mean like with no barrier nothing.

like if you were too slow in that thing. I've never seen it or heard of it but. I'm like wow you could really get hurt. on this thing and they had me. like this 15 16 year old kid. doing this right and then like it's like. a race and so I had to do that all night. to the point where it's like I my mom. caught me like doing this in my sleep. and she's like like thought I was having. a nightmare but it's just cuz I'm I've. been doing it like all week and to this. day I will not go anywhere near.

a peach cuz you my first day on the job. I was like oh peaches neat you know no. every time I smell a peach or get Peach. in something it's. like cuz it's just like it's just. permeated and stained this part of my. brain it just has wash out yeah I have P. PTSD where did you go after that what. was the next next job.

um what did I do after. that I think it was just like dumb. odd jobs for like a year or two and then. um then I got a real job um with a. company at in Toronto because I was mind. you this whole time I'm like still like. mostly focusing my time and energy and. thought power on music and computers. right so um there was a software company. that had just started out very popular. now but they were just like a bunch of. goofballs out in the Netherlands you.

know that used to they used to make porn. uh interactive porn games and stuff like. that and there company called the image. line and um and the guy that owns a. really really cool dude this je R Ken. dude uh oh cardigan wearing typical. Belgian dude you know businessman and uh. uh he had a uh a programmer um named DJ. Damron working for him on this thing and. and I guess as a goes is this guy who.

programmed U just basically like these. kind of adult games weird but it's a. business um on a company time I guess he. kind of developed a a music software. like a a simple step sequencer because. there were one or two out that that were. okay there was like. Hammerhead uh which I think was the big. inspiration for this software and There. Was rubber duck and these are like.

primitive like we're talking like rock. you know the invention of the wheel like. audio softwares that were almost usable. you know so there was Hammerhead there. were there's always been trackers that. had predated that like 5 years ago but. anyway it was just a bunch of dudes you. know just chilling out and doing this. and then uh Jean Marie the big the. business guy that owned that company I. guess kind. of said what are you doing you know he's. like well I'm just you know kind of. making this audio Looper software stuff.

he's instead of firing his ass you know. best decision he ever made so. okay you know he kind of culminated that. let's go in this direction. and and they did and then it went to. like version one 2 3 4 five whatever and. then um uh over the years they they. started a game popularity because uh a a. select few uh hip-hop guys started. really liking this software right and. they were like oh this is great we.

should just use this cuz there the other. Alternatives were like really expensive. Suites like Cakewalk or qase or you know. these these high powerered systems that. required all this additional Hardware. meanwhile this guy out in Belgium's. making this like kind of easy to use. cheap as. free software that well you know doesn't. behave the same doesn't sound the same. and you know but but gets something done. right so a lot of attention started to. get to that and then and then it was in. those like that those 3 four years we.

started to see all these like little Daw. projects pop up Daw meaning digital. audio workstation that's like you're all. encompassing software that makes music. right because Steinberg had come out. with this new technology called virtual. Studio technology and that's called VST. people call it just plugins now right. but it's actually just in p software. from uh Steinberg which is like a a kind.

of language or a framework that uh. Digital Signal process Engineers can. make things like a Reverb or a a. distortion pedal or something like that. it's all done in this VST architecture. so that that just started blowing. everyone's mind because they're like. wait I don't need to buy an external. compressor this will run as software and. I could just plug it in on a track and. they're like yeah dude you know W so. they invented that. and so and you were a part of all that. well yeah well I was I was a witness of.

it I had no development of it or I I. made my own dumb like I made my own. compressor I made my own limiter and. just to play with the SDK because it was. a uh SDK is a software development kit. that sometimes companies when they. release new technology if they're cool. they'll provide an SDK saying hey like. if you want to contribute or make your. own things here's the framework for it. this is all the these are all the tools. you need in libraries and includes that. you need as a programmer to to make this.

a dynamic link Library which is what a. plugin is well. was um go nuts but if you're going to. sell it you know you got to license it. and yeah that's where Steinberg made all. the buku bucks because they own it you. know so you got to same with mp3 by the. way you know like an MP3 is owned by a. company from offer or whatever or was at. one point you know what I mean and like. cuz it's an encoder it's a it's a.

patented uh piece of software framework. that's used to make there there are. billions of encoders out there but. ultimately it's an MP3 is kind of owned. by someone or the tech the tech that. made the MP3 not the contents so it's. like that and it's it's really cool so. anyway this this company out in Belgium. uh called was called Fruity Loops back. in the day and uh a lot of people used. it so it was a small community uh of. users and developers so I could get in.

there like I I just go sign up on their. forms hey guys and they're like oh who's. this idiot you know like whatever no. yeah I'm doing this and this and they're. like oh that's an interesting way to use. the software and I'm like yeah there. here hear some of my music and they're. like okay cool and I be you know it just. be back and forth about like feature. requests uh feedback if they added. something oh can you change this cuz. just like we're all musicians and here. I'm like cosplaying like they might have. thought that I was like a legitimate.

accredited musician who knew what he was. talking about but like I'm learning at. the same time but if you learn some of. the language then you you kind of pass. that threshold well wait am I a musician. now you know what I mean so I was really. young too and maybe they didn't know. that well. like 16 17 16 17 years old and there's. some other guys on there that like uh oh. Mike Oldfield was on that Forum he's the. guy that did tubular Bells so he was the. big celebrity that you know used FL or.

Fruity Loops when it was called fruity. it's called FL Studio now because they. got sued by Kelloggs and they had to. change the name it was hilarious. yeah what are we going to call I'm like. please call us something other than. Fruity Loops or fruity anything just. like stop toy ifying this. software you know let's get serious okay. we're going to call FL Studio all right. whatever your company you can name it. whatever you want but um uh so so it had. some credibility because there were some. hip-hop dudes that were using it Mike.

Oldfield was like the big celebrity Dude. using it and then you know at the time. 16 who the is Mike goldfields and. then they'll Play Tubular Bells I'm like. oh yeah remember that you know what I. mean oh oh he's an OG you know so maybe. they're on the right you know what I. mean so I met a lot of people through. that Forum actually I met my best friend. through that Forum um Steve dudo who uh. he worked for Avid uh or no sorry he. worked for Protools which was I don't I.

don't know sure about the timeline here. but Protools was Avid at one point okay. before Apple Bottom before the companies. go through everything but he he was a. Pro Tools developer or sorry um. uh like he worked in the tech support. kind of thing so like if someone was. having a problem or something like that. Steve knew a lot about the Protools. platform and stuff like that so he was. an audio DSP dog guy and he would go.

look at all sorts of software you know. so he was part of that community and. that's how I met Steve Duda and we just. became friends cuz he's weird I'm weird. and we liked similar things and we. weren't big fans of the the the then. just starting out EDM things we were. like kind of anti- EDM and doing like. weird glitchy no kidding brok you guys. were anti EDM well yeah actually so um. long story short uh so I ended up. actually going to work for this company.

uh in Belgium so uh Jean Marie and Frank. van be flew me out to Belgium to go. consult hold on let's what caught their. attention my music so they so they. really liked your stuff yeah cuz it was. just like I had been making noise on a. lot of other communities like in terms. of just my music not the tech nothing I. was just do some weird stuff under. different names like all the time time. dead mouse wasn't even a verb um or a.

noun or anything um it was uh I was just. like making noise on other forums and. popular music communities of underground. musicians and stuff so so somebody from. the FL Story Goes hey I know that kid. he's the D you know what I mean he did. this thing oh cool yeah you know and and. I had to obviously I couldn't just like. float off of me putting stuff out there. and say well listen to this I'm. therefore qualified no I had to engage. in the developer. with or sorry with the developers and. the other users and provide feedback and.

uh show them ways of broken ways of. using their stuff and how we could take. this broken way and make it an official. way or design a new plugin for it or you. know change some things around the. application that's kind of like a beta. what a beta tester did you know so I was. a beta tester Steve was a beta tester um. you know and some other people were just. users and and stuff like that but again. like we're talking less than like 5050. people in a in a kind of forum setting.

where we were all just ah let's do this. let's add that and it was a young fresh. company so they're like okay cool yeah. you know that'd be like me walking into. Tesla now going oh you guys should like. maybe that and they're like that's not. happening CU it's got to go through this. huge big company thing you know what I. mean so it's not very Grassroots over. there as it was at that time so so. through that recognition and that. involvement and that uh it kind of like. social injection of you know my uh ways.

of doing things they were like hey well. why don't you come to Belgium and work. how I mean how did that feel for you was. that one of the that was so bizarre was. that one of the first times that you. really got recognition for some of the. stuff that you were creating in a. positive way in in an internationally. positive way yeah like in the sense that. there's this company in Europe that's. interested in what I do and want to fly. me out there work for him for like a. year or however long and I was like holy. that's crazy so.

like I I went and did that for. like six seven month or actually maybe a. whole year I can't such a. blur and you I lived with one of the. developers the the owner of the company. put us up in a flat in um gent uh and uh. then on the offseason I would go to kok. and stay at his like beach house. basically and just he would dump midi. controllers new periphery and hey test. us out hey we're making uh we're making.

all these new plugins it's just so much. easier if I'm like basically in the same. room with the programmers and I can sit. there and play with it and work with it. and say okay let's tweak this a little. bit and do this this and the company. felt cool they like holy we. actually have like a a musician. Consulting with us and we're not just a. bunch of programmers because sometimes. you get like audio developers who are. really talented make great applications. applications and filters and stuff like. that but really just don't know. about music you know like nothing like. they're literally musically stupid as. but they make this great technology.

and sometimes it helps when a musician's. like that is amazing what you're doing. but you know what I mean could we maybe. do this a different way and and they're. like oh why and then you got to walk. them through it sometimes and they're. like oh okay well that's weird but I'll. do it anyway and then and then it's just. better for everyone you know because not. all musicians are programmers not all. programmers are musicians so you need. that kind of team thing and that's now I. see why that's why they have me up there. to you know consult and and be like a a. power user and uh help.

them push it in the direction they go I. I have no involvement with them anymore. but man they went and did some big. things now they're probably like the. second or. third biggest widely used digital audio. software for hobbyists and I I've heard. a lot of like big names putting out. platinum albums with just their weird. software no kidding this is weird to me. cuz I don't use it I'm not saying it's. weird cuz it's inferior it's it's great. it's just different was Steve dudo with.

you on this yeah so Steve was part of. that Forum but he's also working for. Avid so Steve worked more on the. hardware side and then um then I got. sick in Belgium like pretty sick like. I'm I don't mean like like I got a. disease and I had to get weird. I I just mean like I got like a. really bad flu and um I was there like. no Visa nothing like they cuz again. small company right they're like I'm. like so smug them in so what do I do uh. they like uh you're just coming to.

visit I'm like yeah okay but but as a. Canadian we're part of common well I can. go up there for up to six month on a. tourist visa or whatever but they don't. it's Belgium like they're like yeah you. know I'm not showing up with like a. U-Haul I just literally the clothes in. my backpack and oh we'll just get you. whatever you need when you get here and. you know I'm like okay cool whatever so. I did that and I managed to evade it but. got sick and I needed to go to a. hospital like I had to get taken care of. and they were.

like. well you're not exactly on our medical. insurance you know what I mean so I'm. like you know what just I'll just. fly home I'm still within my Visa thing. I'm not it's you know it's been real but. I I like the rest I got to do from home. because I I got to go back to my uh. socialized medicine kind of. place so I get my taken care of for. free okay and they were like Okay cool. so I flew home and then and they're like. I let us know when you're better and. then just come back right I was like. okay cool so like whatever I got that.

like stomped in like two weeks it was. just a gnarly flu or something I'm like. okay I'm good and then I went to go back. and I got nicked so they were like wait. no before I left right because I guess. they check ahead or something you know. when you buy your ticket or something I. don't know how that worked but like a. basic they were you just in Belgium I. was like yeah and they were like how. long were you there and I was like like. 5 months you know kind of I think. they're like or whatever and they says. well it says here cuz they they saw my.

return ticket or whatever and they were. like no dude now you have to apply for. another you have to apply for an actual. Visa because you've extended your. thing and you can't just go home. for like a week and go right back it. doesn't reset you know what I mean it's. I don't know what the drama was but. basically I was denied entry before I. went thank God cuz other otherwise I. would have went they would have denied. me there and then I would had to fly all. the way back and and I was like. well okay well that was fun uh now it's. time to figure out you know what ever. because they're not going to pay me like. a salary or cash or whatever CU it's.

basically what it was I I gave JMC like. my banking information and Swift codes. and he would wire the money basically to. my account my checkings and savings. account in Canada so I had to use my. debit card to eat and do out there. right so it's like totally off the books. I'm like okay well that was a fun little. thing no harm no foul it's not. like I. was doing anything crazy so is is that. the company that uh uh sent you out to. your friend Tommy Le no no see this is.

now this is where it gets funny right so. I that's now I'm like man I don't. have a job right I'm at home and I like. I know how to make music better than. ever you know what I mean so I'm still. like experimenting with I had a I. had my MySpace was going crazy like you. know cuz remember that oh yeah yeah so. like that was the the dawn of Myspace I. would put my music up there and stuff. like that and people like oh neat you. know what I mean and I worked with. another band um in La called orgy oh no.

you Gordon and Lou Gordon and all. those dude I got the best orgy. story for you let's so and this actually. fits because uh I I I worked with them. kind of like are we talking about the. band orgy or an actual orgy no I'm just. kidding so um I don't know how this even. happened but for whatever reason. Gordon who's the singer at the time or. still is or whatever um hit me up and.

he's just like I heard your the stuff on. the Myspace thing and you know my friend. Steve Duda and I'm like yeah I know. Steve he's like yeah cool so so he knew. I checked out cuz Steve is like you know. pretty high up in the Protools world as. a tech and stuff like that and he's like. y you want to remix one of our songs and. I'm like holy this huge. band from LA right wants me to remix. their song neat okay yeah absolutely I'm.

doing it right so I did that for him and. and then um there was another guy from. the same band who had a side project. called Julian Kay which is one of the. the guitarist no that's a mirr well. anyway one of the other dudes um from. orgy had a side project he had me remix. his stuff and they really like the. remixes they were like wow it cool it. was all very industrial as orgy you know. kind of was their massive hit Blue. Monday uh which you know their cover hey.

I love that song it was cool which one. so um uh so Lou Gordon is Jay Gordon's. dad he managed the band right Lou's like. we're going to get you to the states. you're going to come work for us and I. was like really okay that's interesting. Lou um you gonna you going to take CU I. had just been through a very traumatic. immigration experience with. Belgium so I do know for a fact. you have to get me a Visa right. like like whatever you want me get me a. Visa I don't can pay me dog.

like I'll work whatever but just get me. that visa and I'll come to the. States he's like Okay cool so. this is the this is the most up. story so so. Lou sends me this email right L's big. manager right it's so funny. looking back at it now but like he kind. of did instill a little bit of. management Terror into me because he's. just this big powerful dick weed. so he he's like okay go oh here's what. you do I'm going to email you this. letter and you're going to show that to.

the customs and and I'm like okay Lou. I'm not I don't think that's right but. you know what like and so I'm like. reading this letter it's literally like. a half pager I Lou Gordon I'm. like so it's it's it's an employment. like agreement thing basically is what. he wrote I wish I still had it maybe I. could find it but it's just yeah I know. you're laughing already right wait wait. till I get to the board. right so I'm like he's like no we do. this all the time and I'm like okay fine.

so I like pack a little bag. and I bring this letter thinking like. there's just no way this is like legit. right so I'm like hey uh I have a letter. from an employer like like and you know. you know how you Customs get you know. it's like they don't have time for your. they don't care you. know what I mean they're just like they. hate you so I'm like look I don't want. to be a pain in the ass but I have a. letter from a thing asked me to speak. for someone they're like and they were. actually kind of cool about they're like. okay you need to go just have a seat CU.

someone will come get you right so like. this is the Border in nager Falls Canada. so it's no skin off my ass because I. literally live like a 20-minute walk. from the United States so it's not. like I'm taking a huge risk here right. so I just I go to the border of the. thing I take a cab there whatever and. then kind they're like well the cab has. to go because the cab is not coming into. the the C I'll just get out. and I'll figure it out after that like. okay have a seat so this guy comes over. and he's like all right next. come over and I go and I'm explaining to. him and I'm like look this is what the.

guy told me he said here I I'm to show. you this letter and whatever and then I. I planed to go you know work there for. like 6 months on their new album It's a. punk static paranoia and and then he's. like he's like what do you want me to do. with this like what what is this and I'm. like I I don't know he said like I show. you this and then you let me in I don't. I don't like I don't know he's. like dude he goes you need a visa you. need like he's tell you need either H1B. an 01 you know what I mean I'm like okay.

well can you like educate me here so I. can go back to this guy and tell him how. stupid he is like cuz he's like hey he's. just kind of glazing me over goes look. all right I'm going to I'm going to send. you back you got to get yourself an. immigration lawyer he was cool about it. like but it was so deceivingly cool cuz. what he ended up doing he's like. okay so you have to go back to Canada. I'm like yeah okay you know no problem. whatever like I'll go do what I that's. what I figured so all right uh he's like. okay so now you need to sign this and.

I'm like what sign what why why do I got. to sign that I just I literally just. turn around let me go back to. can I walk across a bridge I. don't give a he's like yeah yeah. but you're withdrawing your ad he kept. he kept stressing on this he goes you're. withdrawing your admission into the. United States I'm like well yeah I guess. technically cuz I'm not I don't want to. be I want to go home and get an. immigration lawyer like I'm just trying. to be like legit here like okay well. then what you need to do is you need to. sign this form and I'm like all right.

you know like and I'm not like at mature. Joel yet so I'm like sure can I can I go. now he's like yeah see yeah I was like. okay cool I leave go home and I'm like. my mom's like what the f I thought you. were going to LA to go work with. or I'm like no man like it's just C call. L up I'm like L you're a idiot. you got to give me an immigration lawyer. like cuz this is stupid like and he's. like okay okay well let me get back to. you no no no no I'm like all right fine. okay square one again I'm back. in Canada I'm in nager Falls.

talking to Steve and telling him. he's like bro he goes that's so. up he should get you an immigration law. and all that I'm like I know like and. I'm like whatever man just let's keep. grinding away and me and him. were like working on music and music. software together couple weeks go by or. actually a couple months probably and um. I remember uh Steve's like hey why don't. you come by like why don't you just come. visit for like a week or something like. that at least come check it out before. you make any crazy decisions. like you know cuz Steve's telling me.

this whole Horror Story about how he. moved to New Orleans with two. garbage bags full of clothes and he like. and I was like yeah but just like you. know like just come come chill uh cuz. I've I've never actually met him but. I've been working with him for like you. know five six years like on the internet. right and I thought yeah I could use a. break cuz I've been to the. States before like I would I worked in. like a programming language called uh. action scripting so. one of the companies that I worked for. we won an award for a flash-based.

shopping cart thing so they they flew us. out to San Francisco to The Flash. Forward award so like I've been in and. out like in that capacity right so it's. not like a big deal so I'm like Okay. cool so I I like literally just packed. some clothes up in a suitcase. and and went to the border and they're. like hey you know like they don't. remember me they were just like you what. are you doing what's your purpose for. travel I'm like oh I'm just going to. visit a friend in La I'm like yeah and. I'm like yeah yeah like who and I'm like. oh Steve Duda you know here's his.

address and they're like how do you know. a guy a thousand miles away in. California and I'm like the internet you. know like like I don't know like I don't. I've never actually met him so they're. they're doing their job you know what I. mean so and they're like okay beer right. back and they come back out and they're. like okay you're going to have to come. with me I'm like what the and they. go yeah no you are B from the states. you're going to work and I'm like I'm. not going to work I'm going I'm and I.

really wasn't I'm like I'm going to. hang out with my friend Steve I. like I I'm not working like he doesn't. have a job for me or whatever and. they're like no you're going to work I'm. like no like I I don't know what to tell. you dude you know whatever and they go. you apply you applied you were here. whatever cuz they I guess they made a. note of it or something but they were. like so they thought that I was actually. evading that whole like these a process. to go and work for that gu kid yeah and. of course it's all Hing back to me I'm.

like dude that is so unrelated like I'm. just literally going for like a week to. hang out with this guy and they they did. the whole Gustavo thing you know it was. crazy I was scared shitless and. they're like they're thinking oh no. you're going to jail tonight you know. kind of you know and I'm like. man I'm like I don't know what to tell. you like like seriously like I am not. going to work but honestly so so then. they legitimately Banned Me from the. states for like seven years no yeah. I swear to God so I'm like well. there goes the there goes my.

Hollywood dreams right. whatever so for whatever thing they let. me go back and they say you. cannot enter the states or whatever and. if you do you'll be arrested and I'm. like okay all right cool I guess. Canada it is go back home tail between. my legs and again my mom like I'm just. like dude you have no idea like this is. just absolutely crazy and they. they think that I was trying to like you. know smuggle myself in and and she was. like well whatever and I'm like well now.

I should get a lawyer well but not. really cuz I have no point to go there. anyway now because I'm not going to Lou. and I I definitely don't want to get an. immigration lawyer to fight a case for. me to just go visit my buddy right so. I'm like so I'm like totally. defeated right and I'm like tell well. you know like that up I'm. going to stay in. Canada a couple years go. by and I'm still do just like grinding. away in the dead mouse thing. uh hanging out in the scene in Toronto. doing all the nightclub stuff and then. just kind of making my music and stuff.

and then still working with Jay Gordon. by the way and this is where it comes. full circle Jay Gordon sent me a photo. of him like wasted like in his like. underwear on a couch you know at some. party thing and he's like look at this. photo kind of thing right and I'm like. you're idiot now cool and. um 100% that like just why why would you. I don't care you know like cool dude and. um at that time I was getting into 3D. animation and rendering and all that.

stuff too so I had designed a Shader. Model this is such a long story but like. I'll I'll do my best to keep it short I. did a Shader Model you know the you know. the Pixar lamp you know the teapot yeah. okay those are Shader like model tests. that they'll use to test shaders okay. right and every kind of Animation Studio. has their own dumb thing right like uh. uh zbrush has like a kind of weird or.

blender has a monkey thing you know what. I mean everyone's it's just the. corporate gag right so in my like I'm. going to be a 3D artist now mode right. I'm like I need a Shader Model so I made. this circle with two ears and. some balls for eyes and I cut out a. mouthpiece and went cool that's I'm. going to just use that to test all my. shaders out you know and whatever it is. right it wasn't even dead mouse like it. was just it was the helmet as you know. it but like it just it I didn't think.

dead mouse or anything like that right I. was just like that's I'll just use that. as my mdl for testing out shaders so Jay. sends me that photo and I was just. getting into um it was kind of new at. the time uh called hdri which is like. high density or uh high density. radiosity Imaging which is uh remember. back in some CG behind the scenes things. they would take pictures. of mirror balls like spheres and they. would take a whole bunch of pictures and.

you'd see them on sets they're like. mirror like Christmas ornaments kind of. like you know what I mean mirror finish. balls so what that what that is is if. you took a picture of that mirror ball. at different um f-stops for the camera. right you could create uh a basically an. HDR map of the lighting of that scene so. that if you were to build that scene in. 3D space and you use that HDR image that. has like uh it's an exr or whatever of. different levels of light then when you.

put your 3D model in it it would apply. that light to the 3D model of the same. room so it looked like it belonged there. versus it was composited right so I'm. testing this stuff out with just like I. had a like a cannon and I I bought. literally like a a garden ornament one. of those mirror balls things and it. actually had like a bluish tint to it so. I had to I had to color correct it in. Photoshop or whatever but I I was like I. should make my own hdri so I did that. and then I took the photo of Jay Gordon.

like laying down like an idiot. and I put the mouse head on him and I. sent it to him and I said Jay look at. this and he's like oh he goes how do CU. it's like magic to him and. because it's new technology he's like. how the and and I explain it to him. he goes oh that's cool he goes what is. that I'm like oh it's just like my. Shader Model he goes dude if you ever. perform lime you got to wear you got to. make that and wear it Jay Gordon told me. that and I I said you're you're a. loser dude shut up I swear he.

was the first I'll give him credit he. was say goes you know what if you ever. if you ever uh if you ever make it you. know like you you should wear that on. stage I'm. like yeah no that's. stupid and then but but like it never. happened till like five six seven years. later but like honestly it's it's been. in my brain the whole time just. never Act on it or whatever and I. started like I I first started using it. as my logo as dead mouse when I.

registered all that and I was like. maybe I. should so I go to no kid I go to this. guy in Toronto who makes props for like. film and television name is Warren. Keeler and I I said can you make this. and I gave him of course the cads the. fbx of everything CU I modeled it in 3D. and he's like yeah gets a hamster ball. does his thing and makes a. really nice one I throw it on. I'm like this is so stupid so I. uh I played my first show in Halifax.

with that head on and everyone was like. what the is this dude it was pretty. funny what did they say what what that. was kind of. like cuz it was like before D Punk was. popular so like it was you know what I. mean it was kind of like around the same. time but they they were like more Europe. than North America at that time so. everyone was just like that's really. weird. yeah man just like I was saying at the. beginning breaking the mold doing your.

own thing um so yeah and that's just. kind of how that happened but then a lot. of like nowadays everyone's like yeah he. was like one of the F no D Punk was the. first you all you know who the. first electronic music bands. with a head was not dvo that's a hat I. mean a full head who the residents the I. don't know them oh wow. yeah look them up I will they were. eyeballs no giant eyeballs and this.

is like. in the'80s something like that and and. Pen pendulette used to play with them uh. the pen and Teller yeah pendulette used. to play with the residents and stuff. they used to tour around and stuff like. that I did a whole interview with him. and I'm like dude that is so wild I had. no idea that yeah it's really cool story. how was it received when you I mean how. big were the you were playing oh no like. literally twice the size of this room no. kidding that's small 100 people did they.

like it yeah they loved it it was great. um because I had actually gotten big in. Europe in England before I was big in. Canada or or In America which was really. weird because we had a mega Club in. Toronto at the time called government. and they just like again fast forward. like uh you know 5 years deep into my.

what I would say started as Dead Mouse I. had a few hits out and then faxing. Berlin was such a big track and Pete. Tong would play it in England and then. government of course would say oh we. booked dead mouse and he's like holy. de all the way from England dude I. live like four blocks from that. venue you know what I mean and I'm I'm. going in there in the capacity of like. some International DJ just blew. my mind you know I mean. everyone's like wait you're Canadian. wait you're from Toronto wait you live.

right there I'm like yeah dude. it was really weird because I had um I. had played my music out um again this is. all very condensed but like cuz it's. it's everyone's got a story you know and. it's always life stories are really long. but um remember playing some of my music. for Chris Lake U who's a who is now and. has been a huge DJ out in the UK. um and uh he would play it and then Pete.

Tong of all people like hear it. and they're like oh what the you. know and Pete Tong starts playing it on. his show and uh who's this dead mouse. color me intrigued it's it's not dj so. and so it's not um Captain Awesome or. you know it was just like you know when. you hear that dead mouse for the first. time when it's I'm not saying. it's common place but I just mean imag. imagine it's it's me explaining. to the guy at Customs now every time I. go through the States and.

they're like okay where you going I mean. I have my Visa and everything's. cool but I go through sometimes and. then it's like you know maybe an older. gentleman and he be like hey okay what. are you doing uh going to Nashville oh. for what uh I just play some music and. stuff oh you oh you got a no one oh cool. we'll ban you. in Dead Mouse he's like what the. you know mean or you know oh yeah. my grandkids are big fans you know like. damn yeah it's crazy so I guess I.

think that's what kind of caught Pete. Tong well that in the music maybe but uh. he was just like what is this weird head. thing and cool you know and then he. reaches out and then kind of the rest. just kind of steamrolls you know what I. mean yeah I mean not really but but but. no it's it's like you make your own luck. you kind of you know what I mean I say. that you know know there are. people as and by far more talented than.

me that just literally are just waiting. for their thing or you know or or enjoy. the Solitude of their basement or. whatever but uh I. say you this is so luck it is so. luck this has absolutely so less to do. with skill than in in uh Artistry and. Innovation I mean that of course helps. it along the way but but what I always. say is that if you want to make it you.

know what I mean or or be whatever it is. you want to be you got to just make your. luck better you know. like add. more tickets to the raffle every day you. know what I mean and eventually yeah. you're going to hit you know what I mean. but if you're just throwing one ticket. in and there's 100,000 tickets in there. you got to be pretty lucky and and. you very well may be and that's cool too. but the more kind of tickets you throw. in that pot you know the better MH you.

know so it's like you make noise here. you make noise there you you involve. yourself in this kind of sector all. stuff you like you know you're. interested in and and sooner or later. you know those pieces are going to kind. of like connect like neurons you know. what I mean and. then then you're then you're in two. places at once you know what I mean and. then at some point it's going to. converge and then someone's just going. to pick up on that you know what I mean. and then that puts you in that position. where you're like I totally understand.

what you're saying I don't I mean I'm. not saying meet a lot of people and and. cling to people better than you. I just mean apply yourself in like all. these little weird ass areas and. sooner or later you know someone's going. to pick up on that and say hey this. guy's doing you know I mean it's to. you maybe that's luck to me that's. just that's dedication that's getting it. out there that's having the the career. to put something new out that nobody's. ever heard and and and and be willing to.

face the critics and and you just kept. going and going and going and going yeah. whereas most people would just oh man. people don't like it I tried it once and. it it just wasn't for me you know what I. mean oh dude I tried it like 80 times. and it wasn't for me until I tried it 85. times then than it was for me you know. yeah so I mean all the way even all the. way back when you said uh you were. putting your stuff out was it it wasn't. Reddit but you were putting your stuff. out in those forums you know stuff that.

you.com Bank Camp you know all that dumb. and I'm and I'm sure there's like. one or two of them that really wouldn't. have made the difference whether. I put it there or not you know what I. mean do you remember the first the first. what would you call it a track yeah do. you remember the first track that you. put out to the public yeah it was called. uh I don't want no other how was that. rece it was it was me working with. another guy I used to work Jesus Christ. I dude I skipped over like a lot of.

but like so I used to work in a record. store um and I was just like in the rear. with the gear um you know like I'd hang. out at the back and play on the computer. and make noise and they had turntables. and DJ equipment back there because we. also recorded a radio show for the pl uh. for their local radio station stuff so a. lot of DJs would come in and out and. that was my big intro into electronic. music was working in that record. store because I met every DJ. that came through and bought records you.

know and was got a little friendly and. cool and stuff like that and. um uh I just got to it I I became known. as the the kid who knew how to use all. the like the computer to do the. recording to edit and all that stuff of. course DJs knew how to DJ but like I had. to format it into a show and use the. computer to do it you know so I would. use like sound Forge and gold wve and. wave lab and all all these like archaic. editing Suites to to produce a. radio show insert the commercials on so.

I just became the nerd you know um and. and that was really proponent to. like hey call Joel Hill you know what I. mean come to your studio and hook you up. with this or that or you know when when. you when you put your first track out. what was how was it received was it did. they butcher it did they crush your soul. they like it that was at a time like it. was vinyl it there was no digital.

distribution happening anywhere um it. was vinyl uh there was a guy in Toronto. who knew the DJ that I worked with on. that song it was a DJ dread right he's. kind of like a thing in nagar Falls but. then would also go to Toronto to play. sometimes too and there was a guy aim. moan uh who worked at popular records. well like a sub like a sublabel of that. called awesome records and I he's just. like yeah I'll press it and give it to.

Eugene and play D Record he would sell. it and stuff like that so um I'm talking. Joel I'm talking early days pretty early. like um like Belgium you had said that. the owner of that company had noticed. that you were putting stuff out and like. super early oh yeah no that was earlier. than that me working in the record store. was way before Belgium no that's. was skipping school to go to the record. store downtown Queen Street like okay. yeah yeah this was like uh my first year.

in high school so you you got you got. positive recognition right off the bat. well yeah I guess not like oh man he's. the bomb just know he's a nerd. and he's doing on a. computer and that's as far as it goes. not he's hey watch this space not that. just did it sound like anything that. you're doing today absolutely not no it. was terrible I can't listen to it it. just makes it makes me cringe. but I'm sure that if you were to maybe.

guise it to something else and send it. to someone they'd be like was there any. critics was there a lot of criticism. always critics I well reason I'm asking. is I want to know how you got over it. over over the. criticism of what oh I never got into it. really no kidding no give it any time. you don't have time for that man it's. like those who can't you know I just. shouldn't. that's it like yeah I mean dude I I I. get it all the time I get it today I got.

I got it last week but but but it kind. of it's it's like to me it's it's it's. empty because there's no substance to. the criticism okay so like your set. sucked I I'm sorry like I that just is. literally not doing anything for me it's. not even hurting my feelings because a. you failed to quantify it it sucked how. you want to hurt my feelings do. it you know like tell me what it. was and then when you really egg them on. and I remember okay all right how did it.

suck well okay you you gotta did I play. a song you didn't like you know what I. mean like I don't I don't understand was. the was the audio bad did you have a bad. time with your girlfriend like I don't. understand like there's so many things. in the universe that could make that. suck for you and you alone you know what. I mean but there's 50,000 of you out. there and I don't really give a. about your bad time I don't give. a about hearing about your bad time. you know what I mean like man you.

got to be kidding me and then on the. internet you multiply that by a billion. M. right it's okay or like whatever you. know what I mean like or like critics. critics critics you know what I mean. it's just. like I just I am so unaffected by. criticism I think and then and that's a. really nice thing to. develop did you develop it or did that. just come some. natural uh I I I think naturally just. like I've always been really not really.

part of any need to fit into anything. you know what I mean like a group that. and that showed really early I think for. me in high school because you had your. Goths and your jocks and your your nerds. and you know I didn't really Vibe with. any of that I would just go bum smokes. from all of them you know what I mean. and and just I'd be there not saying I. was bullied and I wasn't no cast and I. cried in my locker every day you know. what I mean I knew how to socially. function you know what I mean you just. kind of you got to get a bit of this and.

a bit of that sometimes and Flack from. peers or people that are like you know. occupying the same space as you at that. age you know what I mean because I think. everybody's so really bent on fitting in. and and fitting in with that group. that's most likely to succeed at being. the coolest which is Pretty. Petty but like that's high school in a. nutshell you know what I mean um I just. didn't I just kind of I I played. all sides of the war you know what I. mean like I. smart man yeah smart.

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we're getting ready to dive. in you meeting Tommy Lee for the first. time guy um so Steve Duda who's. basically been there from the start um. you should get him on the show the guy's. he's crazy Mad genius really quiet. hippie dude long blonde hair just I'd. love to get him yeah he's awesome um. so so me and. Steve uh you know having we met through. that company in uh Belgium and then we.

were just. like back and forth. Banner uh some tech stuff in between and. stuff at some point um before the Dead. Mouse stuff I was like we should just we. should just start a band and and do some. you know the industrial stuff that we. like this isn't even dance music and. um many years go by uh and then of. course I was uh I was barred from the. United. States um Steve I'll just fly up there. and I was like oh okay perfect okay and.

then we can hang out we can just do. whatever right and he's like yeah cool. so he came showed up and I was living in. a basement apartment in Toronto at that. time and uh I was like well like what do. you want to do like what what kind of. music should we do it's like like how do. you start a band you know basically it's. like you I guess you all have to agree. on some kind of like style or something. I don't know I don't know the formula I. don't know how bands form you know what. I mean but you don't you think like they. all sit down and go okay we're going to.

sound like this you know what I mean. because you can't have like four. different can't have a like a well maybe. you can but you can't have like a. country folk dude and then a black metal. guy and then you know and then they're. like well how are we going to make this. all fit so sort of thing so um I I think. we were both into that kind of early. industrial kind of sound like the 90ish. nail Z kind of stuff so. we we did that for about 20 minutes you. know but then we realized we were doing. our jobs like and then that sucked.

because that's what Steve did you know. for other bands and stuff like he he. worked with NI Nails he uh worked on the. fragile uh with them in New Orleans and. uh he was an engineer and he played some. violin on the album and stuff like that. so he I think I think we both just. realized wow we're doing like we do. for other people and this kind of it's. not really fun or creative and we're. like. yeah so we just you know kind of. collectively. sigh and then for whatever reason I said. we we should do dance music and then it.

was like you know what I mean like a. joke literally a joke and uh I was. taking the piss and then then then then. Steve got thinking like he's like well. it's so formulaic like and I'm. like I know right and you know so we're. like I don't know it's like admitting. you're going to do something but. detesting it at the same time because. like honestly it's like as far as me and. Steve were concerned like dance music. was like the ass end of the joke of you. know the Pinnacle of where we were at. with technology and music and stuff like. that why dumb it down to a 44 128 BPM.

thing with some the same. Baseline over and over again we're like. you know like we're better than that but. let's do it anyway right just as a joke. right so so we did we we lit I and this. is no. exaggeration we produced eight tracks in. eight days. uh dance tracks very palatable pretty. what we thought that'll do pig you know.

there's some dance music and um I had. befriended some people in uh the. technology uh Department out in uh. Denver who started up a website uh that. was brand new at the time called. beatport and they were an early uh. digital drro but more oriented for DJs. so that DJs would have a place to go and. buy digital music and serve it out and. they were kind of the Kings at that that. time of the up and comers because. digitally like there was no apple music. it wasn't even invented or whatever you. know there was no real place like DJs.

would go to record stores and you know. get holds from the record shop owner if. they're like a DJ and uh reservations. and stuff like that so getting music uh. beport made it more accessible because. they they were one of the first and. probably the most renowned uh kind of. source for where the digital DJ would. get their music right so. I ended up just like making up a record. label out of thin air and. sending it to Tom Havens who was working.

at bport at the time and said how do we. release this and he was like oh just do. this it's some my RSC codes and no no no. it's pretty easy to do and I was like oh. okay do I need to like sign anything. he's like no just send it. whatever it's good we'll do the. accounting on it and all that stuff I'm. like okay and I you not the bsod. tracks which was our moniker were on the. charts as number one two three four five. 6 s eight out of the top 10 are you.

serious I you not it was the. weirdest thing and we're like. why is this working and we're kind of. laughing right cuz we had no intention. of doing this right um and cuz we we we. actually kind of ironically took the. piss out of electronic music with a. title track called This is the hook. right and it's it's this Tex to speech. stuff describing about how the track. should go because it was so for. formulaic so it was like it was like. this computer voice that just basically. said okay so first we're going to we're. going to add you know 16 bars of just a.

kick drum so the DJ can mix it in right. it's so predictable okay now now comes. in the Baseline and then the Baseline. comes in and then and then it's like now. here's the breakdown it. and it was like a guy saying this is the. hook you know this is the hook and then. and then we we were like dude this is.

the stupidest thing ever and it was. actually like number one on bport for. like a hot minute and we're were like. holy this is funny and then we. started to see like our income come in. from that and we're like we could just. do dance music dude like like I know. it's like kind of above our Pig right. but like let's just you got to be. me so you weren't even really into dance. music I'm still kind of not but. but that's another story um so it was a. joke cuz we want to do this industrial.

FX2 ax Twi is this like I on guard stuff. uh Square Pusher esque 9in Nails kind of. medly thing you know like just we wanted. to we had such Grand visions of of being. the. next not Inch Nails or whatever you know. what I mean cuz we were just so so big. huge fans of Trent and atus and that. whole camp which he all knew you know. what I mean so it's like I'm like what. better candidates would there be to. create the next thing it would be me and.

Steve you know do this uh but and then. instead we make like a joke a track. dance album and it just blows up. and then there's this huge DJ like Benny. benasi you know that satisfaction song. Benny's like he me and Steve we printed. our own t-shirts this is how like. Chop Shop this is when we go to. winter music conference right like in. Miami just it's like. on a spectator level you know what I. mean like we're not going for meetings. we're not going for you know like uh.

appointments or to sign autographs or. play any shows we had no shows. we had one show just because of Steve's. friend uh Jonathan Peters who was. playing at space and we got a slot from. like 4 in the morning to 4:30 you know. or something like that right so we went. in that capacity right is this Ultra is. this Ultra Music Festival when winter. music conference was at the same time so. it's they they used to always time those. two events together because like. half the industry is there half the DJs.

are there let's just make it a. conference thing too and give out some. Awards and talks and. conferences and but really it's just for. like you know the dance music guys. agents and labels and DJs just go. party for like a week then play. a festival get paid everybody. cool who doesn't love Miami right um so. we decideed to go to this thing and this. is like at the peak of WMC when it was. like a really cool thing so like the. rally would be booked and Pete Tong. would have the rally and the national. was booked and some auna would have that.

and all the labels all the big swinging. dicks tool room records and Ultra Music. and the label and all that stuff so we. go to this conference and we're wearing. our printed bsod shirts right and. walking down I remember Colin Street or. oh no we were at the national just like. having lunch cuz we just managed to just. blackag our way into getting some passes. to go into this like you know kind of. private party thing so we're sitting. around at the table and Benny benasi. walks by and he's like freaking out and.

like me and Steve were like I was like. this that's Benny benazzi I was like. he's like oh cool like we're not. freaking out but I was just like that's. really weird and Benny's like oh you you. guys are uh bsod bsod and I was like. yeah he oh I love uh this is the hook. and he nicest wonderful Italian dude you. know we're like holy it's a. satisfaction guy right we're like. awesome cool man you yeah no no I really. really like the song and you know Benny. Basi is's playing our and we're. like dude this is so up like we. up because now we're a thing and.

oh you know like okay cool like hey. man yeah cool so we gave him some stuff. and he's like yeah you know whenever you. guys do music you know send it we're. like okay yeah sure no problem then. Chris Lake was you know a friend of ours. too and Chris Lake loved our stuff and. in hand you know Pete Tong kind of. caught onto it again too and all that. stuff and so it's like we're like What. the did we just do. whoops this is getting into the whole. Tommy thing um so then bsod is just kind.

of up and coming and stuff like that but. then we just kind of decided Steve was. just like I don't want to be a superstar. I don't want to be a DJ he doesn't he's. he's he really honestly truly doesn't. like it's he's he just he loves. technology loves programming I don't. necessarily want to be a big Superstar I. love it too but like I like making music. and stuff again Steve loves making tools. that make music he likes solving those. kind of problems I like solving creative. problems and ultimately we just kind of.

just stopped with the bsod stuff for. like a hot minute you know and just like. and Steve is like oh I'm working on this. new s thing give me like 20 years and. maybe I'll finish it you know I'm like. okay um and and but we we we still. remain best of friends it wasn't a. breakup it was just like uh H that was. cool we made some money and uh we know. it works you know me okay game on let's. go do something else and that's kind of. when I forked off and and did dead mouse. because I'm not just going to be bored. while Steve's like off being. Steve you know what I mean I got to keep.

it moving you know so you know all good. uh all is well that ends well so that's. when I started ount stuff after that and. then he was like oh it's the guy from. bod the guy that did faxi in Berlin and. same dude okay cool let's put a mouse on. him and throw him on every. Festival fine um then Steve was gone to. LA on uh business uh through because he. still worked for Avid uh he was uh an. operator for a protool system that Tommy.

Lee bought that has no idea how to. use it like himself he has this. studio at his home and he's got an. engineer he had like Scott Humphrey and. Chris basford you know running the. Tommy just knows how to you know and. that's about it um well no I'll give. more credit than that but um so Steve. went over to Tommy to do some op stuff. either upgrade a PT system or troubles. some with Scott and Chris and. all that stuff and.

Steve it's not he's not there and uh. Tommy's not an so it's like. anyone that kind of goes into his space. or his home like you you're broed you. know like it's. not you know just get to work don't look. at me just do what you need to do no. they got chummy right so they got. talking music and then Steve's like oh. have you heard this dead mouse dude and. Tom's like no right and he would play. him some of my weird not my dance. music he would play him the the stuff I. did like you know the b-roll you.

know that nobody really hears that I. just kind of do for fun and I give it. out to friends and stuff like that and. and then for whatever reason Tommy. emails me he's like yo your boy do a. gave me some of your it's. whack and I love it and I'm like okay. cool like thanks that's neat you know if. you want more I could send you more I. don't know what you would do with it but. whatever cool like I I just didn't see. the connection you know what I mean but. I was I was like I was it was still. pretty cool like he sends me this email. and I was like yeah your boy Steve n n n. I'm like rad cool so like every month or.

so when I finish something cool I'd send. it off to him and get some feedback and. then the feedback would turn into like. like just dumb jokes or like just say. stupid chain emails of some meme you. know what I mean I'm like okay cool and. and then I get another email from him. and I'm living in the um I couldn't go. to the states I was banned still hence. forth yeah um so I'm in. uh nager falls back at my mom's house. debating on moving to Toronto or not and. I get this email from Tommy's like yo.

I'm playing in Hamilton you want to come. and I'm like yeah threaten me with a. good time of course I'll come um. so uh Hamilton's like you know 30 minute. drive from nagar Falls it's just like. our local thing he's doing some Molly. Crew so um he's like uh yeah you. know here's here's Tony's number email. just go and send him he'll put you on. the whe call and what ever and get you. whatever so I'm thinking I'm like cool. yeah well I mean it I'll go I've. never been to a concert I'll go happily.

sit in GA or whatever ticket you. got me and I'll chill so I get. there and I messages Tony guy on my. Pho and he's like uh oh yeah come to. gate I'm like Christ so I'm like. trying to like navigate my way around. this whole like idea of being at a venue. which I've never been and uh and then. anyway this BT bleach tip. douchebag looking dude finds me. and he's like hey you Joel right and I. was like yeah he was like oh Tony I'm.

like oh hey man nice to meet you he yeah. come on come on so he walks me in. through the loading Bay and just takes. me into like one of the locker rooms and. it's like just draped with like. hippie sheets and it just reeks of nog. choma that's why I discovered that. by the way um the incense right and. Tommy's just sitting there and I. was like oh hey he's like oh dude d d. and he's like the nicest guy like he. he's that kind of dude that'll like you. know like if a friend brings a friend to. like a dinner event because he's a good.

friend of theirs like he makes everybody. feel yeah welcome you know what I mean. he doesn't just kind of have you around. as a prop you know what I mean he'll be. like you you know what I mean he's a. really really cool dude I'm really. envious of that cuz I can't be like that. like as on as he is when it comes to. social awareness know I even though he's. not aware he's doing that he's. just he's just got some weird thing with. his brain I guess I don't know but he's. a really really cool dude and I was like. oh hey hey nice to meet you man he's. like yeah R dude you want a beer.

no no no I was like yeah cool so I was. like sitting around drinking and the. funny thing was is that my first. interaction with the guy really was so. he's like um it was a a locker room. right but they just draped over the the. the pisss basically right with some. just to make it look a little. more homely or whatever and he's got. he's got this sound system that is got. figgy pushed in there for him so that he. can like you know kind of party before. the show which I thought was absurd and. um he's he had these contest winners.

like kind of shuffled into the room and. they're losing their minds I'm. just kind of just like witnessing it at. this point I'm not like shivering in a. corner I'm just like this is so bizarre. man like this what am I doing here how. did this happen you know and um while. I'm in that thought this is you know a. younger girl came in like I mean like 50. 14 maybe and her I would assume mother. right had like kind of come in so I'm. like oh maybe she want a contest thing.

and she had to come with her mom because. you know that's whatever so. they're all sitting around and the mom. is just kind of like like kind of like. me we're just like what the is. going on in here you know what I mean. Tommy's just like partying he's. like and um so I'm sitting down and. there's this like little table here I'll. never forget this and u he just. kept putting beers in front of me like. Corona so I'm like drinking a beer and. he he he's sitting beside me he stands. up he watches he takes the empty box.

stands up and just whips it across the. room hits the wall it. explodes and I was. like like oh my God that's funny but why. why why would you do that you know and. the and the 14-year-old girl is just. like like laughing her ass up the mom's. terrified glass is flying. everywhere and he and he starts handing. me he's like do it do it do it and I was. like bro like come on man that was like. literally my very first rock and roll. moment and and then he's like just just.

whip it man as we're like. whipping these empty Corona bottles down. the Hall I'm thinking like see. like anyone else me especially like in. any other circumstances I get arrested. for this you know what I mean I or. or at the very least yelled at you know. or something like that but I was like. like why do you why is this fun hey I. mean it felt great to do it but I was. like this is so juvenile this is so. stupid like I thought you were like an. adult you know and and I think legally. you are but why are we acting like. children I don't know it's a good time.

and um there's actually a really F I got. a photo from that night you I I just. have to show you this and get your. reaction this is the weirdest. photo um because he's like yeah come on. we'll take a selfie and I had like one. of those shitty phones. um uh it's very goog uh it's is the this. is yeah this is the first Pi so this was. that night so this is in that dressing. room and I think I'm like 18 years old.

holy it's so. weird I got to get that got to put that. screen it's just literally Google it um. oh and this is uh this is uh Steve D. that's when we started our ban thing oh. right on yeah he's a cool. dude we'll put that up too that's cool. man yeah so I'm out there like just. hanging out with this Rockstar. thinking you know like okay but they you. know what this cool it's an experience.

cool and and I watched the show I. enjoyed it and then um and then he's. like uh well what are you doing this. week and I'm like what do you mean what. am I doing this week like I'm going back. to my normal ass life. and figuring out more music you. know it's like well we you should come. come to Montreal so he's like I'm like. well I I don't drive first of all I had. to get dropped off here and and I got to. I don't know I got to figure out. actually how I'm getting home actually. you know what as a matter of fact I. think I had to borrow 50 bucks from I.

had to ask him I I did I said dude I. don't want to be that guy but can I. borrow 50 bucks so I can get the. GO train back to nagara Falls because. it's like 45 minutes away it's going to. be like hundreds of doll for a cab but I. can wait till morning and then get On. The GO train and go back and he's like. yeah sure dude but why when don't you. come to Montreal I'm like well cuz I I. can't afford a flight to Montreal if I. can't afford a train right home. he's like no come on the bus. idiot and I was like all right. so I got on the bus with him his tour. bus and then we drove up there and of. course it was all night just chatting.

about dumb nothing music nothing no. business. no no nothing and I was like okay the. guy's actually kind of fun to hang out. with he's like a kid he's a. really cool dude so I ended up like. staying with him for like a week so we. do Montreal do Quebec well Canada he's. like I got to go back to the States. later lat dude and I'm like okay drop me. off home you know and actually. funniest story my mother was like this I.

so I lived off the highway pretty much. like so once the highway kind of ends. you go left or right or straight right. straight goes into like a tiny suburb. left or right goes down this Main Street. called montros Road in Nago Falls and um. we lived in like a little Bungalow thing. in that subdivision so Tommy had to come. back through Niagara Falls to go over to. the US border to go to Buffalo right I. was like dude perfect can you drop me. off like just literally like just at. just exit the highway and then. just drop me off and I'm good he's like. oh yeah easy cuz we got to take the qw.

to go to the Rainbow Bridge. anyway I'm like oh this works out. perfectly thank you so um I stayed on. tour we went to a few shows and um uh he. drops me off and my mom sees. this Molly Crew tour bus pull up. literally out front of the house. because right off the highway. okay later dude okay bye getting in the. house I was. like what the you know what I mean. I'm like yeah I just it's so weird cuz.

my mom obviously knows who Tommy Lee is. she's like you were just with Tommy and. I was like yeah and like showing her the. picture and I was like yeah we did. whatever cuz he knows Steve and I she. just like that is just all right. okay get a job. now whatever it was just the most. bizarre thing and of course we stayed in. touch and uh. we we collaborated together me Tommy Lee. uh Steve Duda and and uh our other. mutual friend DJ Arrow who works with.

Tommy the most like when Tommy does the. DJ show stuff at Chester his name is but. call him Arrow um uh all started a a. group called WTF we produce some tracks. together so WTF is me Tommy Lee Steve. Duda and arrow and uh we did some. Electro and stuff like that put that out. it did okay and I still Ro it from time. to time it's pretty fun so every like. few years we get together and. all go play a show together and some.

quiet thing or something just for. funsies but other than that it's like. mostly hangs do you guys still do that. shows yeah uh we we almost did uh. like where where Ireland Ireland yeah we. almost did a show in Ireland because we. had uh mle tour was like intersecting. with the mouse tour so I was like bro we. out but I was like we should do a show. but we we we would have to fly Arrow up. but Arrow had tore his ankle up.

like real bad like he had to get surgery. and pins and just walking up some. stairs something lame and he couldn't. make a flight and we're like yeah all. right so we just ended up hanging out. and went to the show but man I love that. dude though he's such a good point of. reference for me because uh I. mean in in my space particular L EDM. there's just so much like main character. that I cannot stand it's. like I I go to shows and I'm in and out.

like I I'll literally show up five. minutes before I have to go do the thing. and then walk off get in the car and. just get the out um generally I. I from when I started I've noticed I'm. probably still very prevalent there's. always like this like. compound that goes on for hours before. an artist will go on so there's like. groups and it's party this party that or. not party or just you know what I mean.

little clicks of yeah other artists and. I mean I don't who's the headliner and. what why why am I not playing the main. stage it's just like shut up so I don't. I don't deal with that and neither just. really Tommy just kind of Zen out does. his thing and gets on gets off. and you know what I mean and he just. like he's so Bliss. ful happy I guess you know what I mean. so they like.

really he's the only guy that I think I. can talk to about a lot of problems that. I have with my mental health and touring. and stuff like that who gets it you know. what I mean I could have the best. psychotherapist in the world and. and and I I've had to gone I've done. some therapy sessions here in there with. like some big swinging dick MD. Pro brain Pickers but I don't think they. ever really get it you know what I mean. like think oh I I can I can see that I. can sort of understand it but this. dude's lived it you know what I.

mean so he gets it so I I he doesn't. need to have a PhD to tell. me yeah that's annoying you know or like. that's cool you know he's like he's been. through it he's done with it and and I. he needs nothing from me you know what I. mean like and I need nothing from him so. it's there's no parasitic between. the two of us in that aspect I know. exactly I I know exactly what you're. talking about yeah you know so it's like. it's nice to know somebody that doesn't. want something from you it really is and.

it's good everybody needs that one or. two if if that's all you can get cool. that's all you need you know what I mean. people in your life where there's just a. symbiotic needlessness from both sides. you know what I mean where it's just. like is there a is there is there a. single. best piece of advice maybe that sticks. out in your head from him that that that. you've. really you know from him is that you.

really don't don't. don't don't sweat the Patty pet no what. is it don't sweat the petty pet the. sweaty or something he always. says what is it oh my God why do I. forget it but he says it all the time. and it's like shut up don't don't sweat. the petty pet the sweaty or something. I think it's a little more clever than. that but he says something like that and. it's I'm like dude that is just. so on.

brand would you would you consider him. kind of like a mentor yeah oh 100% and. whether he knows it or not doesn't even. matter you know what I mean. which is kind of cool too because like I. said I think he just stopped developing. after like 13 or something like that no. for real like like he is he's just a. he's like a pet sort of like but he's. Smart in in certain areas but just not. mine and so when he comes to me with. like a gadget oh my my favorite Tommy.

ism is uh I you know RED cameras yeah so. I I go out and uh I'm doing a music. video out in LA and we wanted the. right and this is like a long time ago. right so you ad Dana um uh White and all. the UFC guys kind of pitched in for this. video because we we tied in a lot of UFC. kind of theory around it so it was a big. deal it was a huge production it was. like easily seven figure thing. right and so part of that.

was um they got the bomb squad from. uh red to come in and and bring. us all this thing and then we looked at. like I I we were all looking over the. p&l and CA everything and stuff like. that and it turned out the operating and. rental cost of one of those red cameras. was like so insane that it actually made. more sense to buy. one so I bought one and then I hired an. not to come and did that right.

so that's my red camera now so I'm like. holy I got a red camera I'm. going to I going to shoot all. the crazy right so you know I cuz I. get into these Hobbies you know what I. mean and sometimes they stick sometimes. they don't but but when I get into a. hobby I go like Full Tilt you. know what I mean it's like oh you like w. surfing I'm yeah it I'm going to. buy a 25-footer TGA wave. rip birth thing and everyone's like wow. you really like that Ain I'm yeah. for now you know like so I'm like that. guy right so I I was really into. videography and and cinematography and.

photography and all that so I I get. this red and um I'm showing of course. whenever one of us gets something red. we're on the phone right like hey buddy. check this out check this out he's like. oh dope that like one of those. RED cameras I'm like yeah dude shoots. some like 4K like 8K like 120. frames a second it's like oh rad cool. and like and a week later he'll message. me he's like dude I'm like what and he's. like I got I just got this like the. GoPro the new GoPro it does 4K I'm like.

yeah but and he's like yeah no but it. it's the same as your red dude. but it's like this big I'm like yeah he. goes he goes dude it's 4K it says right. on it it's I'm like it is but it it's. not Tommy it's not he's like I don't I. don't see the difference I'm. like oh my. God like bro I love you shut the. up it's. 4K so you never really got into the you.

never really got into the the the the. the the party when it comes to the no. festivals and stuff no I'm always so I'm. too socially awkward for that actually. one of my worst memories was like trying. to be that for like half a second. there's a guy I really like um his name. is Jeff uh he goes by the name excision. he does like uh drum and bass and dub. stab like the really like w. basically it's like he he's killing it. he's killing he always has and um he.

would be uh on tour with. me uh he he was actually my opener for. like a little bit on a dead mouse thing. and uh he was just really cool dude. chill easy to work with and and now he's. just like this I couldn't afford. him if I wanted to um he's just killing. it and I remember we like I hadn't seen. him in like 5 years or something like. that um and and I it it was like again. it was at one of these like artist. compound things he had his own little. trailer thing and then people just tend. to kind of just pop by trailers and. people they know or whatever they're.

like hey bro you know whatever and I was. like five years deep and I was. just already a little hung over and I. don't know I I think I don't know if. this is even true or not cuz I don't. really remember it but I open up the. door and Jeff was in there with. like a whole bunch of like you know. hangers outers you know probably some of. them actually his friends but just like. whatever you know it was like a whole. big party thing and then when I came in. went yeah or I don't remember how it. went down but I must have made noise or. something like that I I wasn't being. rude or anything but I was just like.

everyone's drinks just like just silence. radio yeah and everyone's looking at me. like what are you doing in here kind of. vibe you know what I mean and and then. and so but I'm just trying to talk to. Jeff but everybody's watching dead mouse. talk to excision you know what I mean. and I was like. hey like I don't even know what the. say right like like cuz now like. I'm being auditioned you know what I. mean it was just really weird I was like. hey man he's like hey and I'm.

like okay good good to see you man and I. just kind of walked out you know what I. mean because it was just so weird you. know it's like I was like I'm never. doing this again unless I truly know the. guy like there's like I can count on one. hand how many DJs or EDM dudes that I. actually really like to just hang out. with and shoot the who is somebody. you really. enjoy I love that dude he is great he's. amazing he's so chill he's just.

so easygoing he's a pain in the ass to. work with don't get me wrong but like. like like in terms of like if you want. to do a show with him like oh my. god it's just like pulling teeth with. this guy cuz he's he's as lazy as me. when it comes to collaborations and. putting in effort on a project that. you're not really going to be. permanently invested in in anyway but. it's going to be a onetime thing you. know yeah so like bless for that like I. I'd be the same too but just like as a. dude to go have a dinner with and just. talk about how's the farm you know what.

I mean how's Sweden what's new. you know what I mean then that's that's. my dude I like I love him uh Wolf Gang. Gardener another really cool dude like. cuz and it's all the older dudes cuz. it's just over it yeah you know what I. mean it's like so what are you working. on like musically you know what I mean. like what's your next move like. you think I want to talk about that you. know what I mean like I like I'm like so. vested in this especially in like this. kind of area of music that I.

don't even like anyway and now you want. to know like what my big Grammy. aspirations are this year like off. dude like man I find that so so odd that. you're not even uh you don't really like. eating I don't hate it I don't hate it I. don't detest it I'm not up there hating. my life going look at all you. idiots no it's not that it's it's it's. like I don't I don't listen to it how. about that yeah okay you know what I. mean like if if I want to relax and and. just zone out I or be inspired I'm not.

inspired by modern day EDM or my own you. know what I mean like so there I'll. throw myself under that bus too you know. what I mean so I I a lot of people I. kind of might take that out of context. when I say I hate EDM I get it man I. don't I I never listen to any of my. interviews half the time I don't even. remember what the hell we talked about. it in here cuz you know but I get it I. you don't hate it I don't hate it I love. doing my job just that's not your very. self-critical we're making someone.

else's content right now you. know what I mean like that's that's the. way I feel when I'm up there so I'm not. up there like I said being G you know. what I mean here we go again you know I. mean maybe that's a little bit of the. attitude I think that's like sold my. you know cuz it's kind of funny. it's you know it's I'm not not malicious. about it I'm not like spiteful but it's. you it's just me being me and that's it. and a lot of people really like what is. that. Marmite H yeah you some people love it.

some people are like you know what I. mean it's like I like I like being in. that Arena you know I don't like I I I. can't imagine what it would be like if. everyone just loved. you yeah you know what I mean like who. who talks about radio head you know. what's that guy's day like like you know. like having to go through all my inbox. and not getting a single suck for no. reason email that. sucks it's like who who goes R. rage against a.

machine terrible do I me no one you know. what I mean do you get pressured a lot. to partake in the party oh yeah oh no no. no no not not not on site not at the. workplace okay and by workplace I mean. the music festival and all that no. I'm nowhere's near that anyway and. even if I was you know what I mean like. but like if I'm dragged out to an. Afterparty you know what I mean and then. there's some going on and there's. lines all over the place.

and they like hey bro and I'm like no. I'm good I just I can't yeah I can't for. health reasons like like not that I want. to and it's just the doctor said no and. you know what I mean it's just. like I I I I don't I I I can. already it's like going to Burning Man I. don't want to go to burning man ever you. know what I mean not because it's the. trendy thing it's no cultural hate thing. it's just like I don't want to be.

Dusty and hot and and not have a shower. possibly you know what I mean I just and. I don't want to I don't want to. get accosted with Good Vibes and you. know what I mean that's just not my. thing you know what I mean I'm not into. that so I don't need to try. it you know cuz I I I I have a very. clear image in my head very clear I was. it's almost like like Blind Faith Like a. Christian thing like God is totally real.

belief in my head that I will get Dusty. and I'll just be irate at all the Good. Vibes and plur and peace and love and. open your mind men just let it go kind. of thing I am just so Faithfully sold. that that's what will happen that I. won't do it is the same way I feel about. drugs I don't think I'm going to have a. good time I think I'm going to freak the. out go into cardiac arrest and. possibly die I don't know but either way. it's going to end with me in the.

hospital or me being oh my God you see. that guy last night that's that's how I. feel about partaking in the in the party. scene you know what I mean so but but I. mean I'm happy to go hang out and have a. good time with people are having a good. time they're playing some really great. techno that I really love and it's all. like hanging out having a f beer or two. with some friends ABS lutely but. when it comes to like you know just. you know being in some.

Opium Den with a shitload of. drugs saying this is going to make you. feel so great I don't think it will so I. just don't you know what I mean yeah I. mean last night you had mentioned that. you that a lot of people think that. you're an alcohol. alcoholic yeah that's a funny one I I I. I saw a few posts on that it's like oh. man we really got to talk to Joel about. a because the only time people ever see. me is when I'm on stage right Mo mostly. right and um I I I I have like three.

four maybe on the top end five beers. like over the course of like two hours. just to take the edge off cuz it's like. it's a lot it's it's a lot of sensory. input it's it's the loud music the. monitors which I need loud because they. have to overpower the mains because when. you're mixing you know sometimes you. can't have that delay right so you got. to have your your monitor is like. basically a PA system here and here and. that's like in excess of 130 DB which is. already like okay I'm up you.

know and then you know you got all these. people looking at you uh not hoping for. you to up but just like they want. to hear your but you don't want to. up for them so there's pressure on. that and so it's not like I assume. everyone out there's judging me I I I. think everyone's out there to have a. great time and be with their. friends and enjoy the music um so having. said that you know you don't want to. disappoint that many people yeah or make. a complete ass yourself or or up. you know what I mean it's like well wait. why are you even in this position you.

know so it's a lot. of it's very punishing on yourself and a. lot of it you're doing it to yourself. it's not even the audience you know what. I mean I've never had a boo you. whole you know what I mean yeah a. resounding boo you anyway but um a. couple drinks help and so like I'm just. that's part of the show is me having a. Corona all of a sudden and like. you know not all of a sudden but just. over the last like 10 years it's like.

wow this guy drinks a. lot now just when I'm on stage then. after that then I I pee I get in the car. I go home I go to bed I don't go to the. Afterparty and down bottle of Jack is. that that's got to be a rarity what that. routine not partaking going I don't. think so. you don't think that's a rarity no did a. lot of guys do that I I think a lot like. maybe the older dudes you know probably.

oh oh don't get me wrong when I was in. my 20s my first tour holy. yeah know it was that let's go to the. after party let's do this let's do that. and it was just alcohol and then. hangovers and it yeah it was rough. dude yeah my first or second tours were. like exhausting in the s that I went. hard but then I just like okay this year. I'm not going to do that how how long. did that take for you to three four.

years that's it to calm down man that's. not well some people don't like I know. Stevie oi still. I'm like I don't know how you do. this dude but he works out and he's. pretty fit like I don't yeah so there's. that let's go into I want to I want to. ask you about how the mouse H head is. developed in the since its. existence not much much not much it has. not really changed you know what I mean. it's not like an evolving art project.

it's just like I I built new ones with. just like different looks to them just. because like the other one got. destroyed what do you see when you put. it on what's in there my. nothing um oh the what do you. mean like how like can you see in there. yeah absolutely that'd be weird if I. couldn't see is there Electronics in. there there no no no no there's like a. grill okay and it's just perforated just. enough that it looks solid coming this. way but out that way you're like oh yeah. no oh no kid I see plain as day.

so you got like 360° no no no just the. just this little mouth part so like 180. okay you're looking through the mou yeah. yeah turn your head I could have swore I. saw wires coming out of there was one. that was entirely covered with LED that. had goggles on the. inside but uh so the whole thing lit up. it was like an LED mask so I could draw. pictures on it and do all this crazy. light and that was cool um and I. wish I could still do it but this the. problem is with that Tech is it was so.

finicky the upkeep on that stupid helmet. like cuz it it would have been great. like if I would be playing in the same. couch in the same quiet room every night. where I could just kind of put that. thing away and do that thing but. everything that you do for that touring. purpose has to be built robustly. because thing is just going to get. beaten the up it's going to be in. road cases airplanes every day. and the like that head required. soldering every stab because a.

LED broke or an ear broke or something. like so it was just maintenance. maintenance maintenance maintenance and. and I rocked it for like almost a solid. year but then it was just like this. thing is such a pain in the ass when I. when I stopped wearing it half my crew. were. like you know what I mean cuz it was. literally one of the jobs was to solder. this back on get this battery working. again or this cable got disconnected. somehow or yeah it was and it and it was. Heavy it was a neck breaker too so I. could only wear it for like a little bit.

and then I'd have to replace it with one. that looked exactly like it but didn't. have the electronics in it that wasn't. on so we called the dummy head so it was. like ultra light but it looked like the. real one yeah so it was just it was such. an operation it was like what a. stupid idea wear a mouse head they said. it'll be fun they said in the name in. the name where did the name come from. the name came from uh long story short a. a mouse crawled into my computer. and died on my GPU and it just wreaked.

up my whole apartment and I'm like. looking around everywhere in my. apartment for this like carcass. cuz you could smell it you know what. dead smells like right and it's. like me man and I'm. like cleaning everything was like the. last place you're going to look right is. inside your PC and your PC's got like a. little fan in the back too so it's just. blowing this smell around and. and I remember I was on some internet. like uh chat room uh on IRC and um my.

name used to be like hon 441 because it. fit in the thing and so I I would go. into this group that I was I had a lot. of familiar friends in and stuff like. that and then I I I would tell them oh. my God guys I found it there's a. Mouse like that got fried on my GPU like. inside the Tower and the fans just been. blown out all the small time everyone's. like oh that's nasty there's no way. you would have found that no no cuz I. had to change a GPU that's the only way.

I found it because otherwise I don't. need to open up my computer right it's. it's good to go and I was like. they're like dude that's so. gross n n and I was like ha so that was. kind of like the story of the day right. and I remember leaving the room or. whatever and then going back the next. day like cuz I was also programming for. a company called robust Tech so a lot of. the employees be in there whatever and. and and there was a lot of transients in. that channel too like meaning people. that would just like log on log off see. what's going on um so there's always. like someone new it wasn't just the same.

20 people it was like about 100 people. in this room and um then and when I. would get back on i' be like hey morning. everyone's like hey oh it's the dead. mouse guy so they would say the dead. mouse guy they kept calling me the dead. mouse guy and so I'm like you guys. dude like come on it's not funny and. then um so I just decided to get on the. joke so I changed my nickname to d e a d. m o u e but then you know on fnet when I. go to return that and say give. me that Nick it would have do d e a d m.

o u s because the e was one character. too long you can only have eight. characters as a name on fnet right you. couldn't just have a long name on dnet. you could but on fnet you couldn't so I. had to trim it down so I had to do d e a. d m Au u5 which is like the leite speak. version of M like you know all these say. hack or right like H4 x0r you know what. I mean it's just kind of part of that. cilic uh using a a number in the place.

of a letter kind of stylization of a. word so I I I changed my name to like. dead mouse with a five and I'm like. basically like it was a they're happy. now everybody knows it's me right like. kind of thing and I wasn't really. actively putting out music as that Mouse. when I did that either and so then when. it came time before the mouse head even. um to release like faxing Berlin and and. some of my first tracks my that actually. got picked up I was like I didn't have a. name and they were like is it going to.

be the houseon 441 and I was like. actually let's just do dead mouse and I. go yeah let's just do dead mouse it. and they were like what and I was like. yeah cuz like you know like I think all. good DJ names should be two syllables. and they're like what are you talking. about and I go have you ever heard a. crowd go. tto no it's always like. and I'm like dead mouse and I go okay. now now imagine a whole bunch of people. yelling dead mouse at the same time how. up is that that's pretty funny.

and they're like okay whatever you can. pick it man like go for it I was like. dead mouse I'm doing it like Jay-Z is. already. taken so when you when you look back at. your catalog over the last what 28 years. maybe maybe more no less what. I mean. what which tracks of your music really I. mean do you enjoy not the fans Not H.

just you oh uh well lately it would have. been my where's the drop cuz I actually. wrote a symphony and nobody knows or. cares well sure that the fans do they. love it but um I me and Gregory Revit um. wrote a symphony I've always wanted to. write a symphony and it's uh it's a 80. minute long Symphony wow of. actual with with and it was scored. uh um I did the original score and then.

Greg did the. transcription um and then it was uh. performed by the finck uh which is like. an 80 piece uh Orchestra and we did two. shows at the wilt theater in Los Angeles. with 80 80 players oh man and it's all. music you probably wouldn't even know. like or it's none of my hits really like. maybe some abstractions on some of them. like monophobia and avaricia and. imaginary friends but they were all like. super. orchestrated and I'm because I noticed.

this kind of trend uh in EDM with the. old-timers I like say that the US uh of. dudes that have just kind of taken their. classic songs and then had them. reimagined by Orchestra but then when I. would listen to them they would they're. the same tracks and they go like it's. Kick Drum in it and it's all very. syncopated and it's still sounded like a. dance track just with a really good. string section in it I was like nah I. think they need to be I think this needs. to be like a an actual Symphony. like let's write a like a I need.

this you know what I mean like I want to. make music in the way that the the. proovy did back in way. back when like do a legitimate Orchestra. no no bells and whistles no no here's a. symphony playing with some EDM sprinkled. on on top no the EDM let's just. make. M no kidding yeah it was really cool. when when did you do.

that five six years ago yeah I still. have this score and everything it's. really cool like it was just like one of. those things that I've done that I was. like wow that was really cool like I'm. especially proud of that and I've always. wanted to do that and it was neat. hearing it you know being sitting there. they're surrounded by like 80. top tier players play that. you wrote is you're like holy very. cool yeah it was the coolest. experience where can uh where can I find.

that it's just called where's the drop. uh you can Google it I will it's it's. just not it just like cuz it's just not. it wasn't pop you know what I mean um. but like I didn't care like it was. something I wanted to do and title. really helped out with that they they. helped fund it because that is not. cheap that is way over 7 figures. to pull something like that together. because you got all those players all. the all the composers the the conductor. John Beal uh he was amazing and um yeah.

it was a it was a whole lot we rented. out east west Studios and did it. in their big room you know where they do. all the major film scores and stuff like. that oh wow that's amazing it was really. cool so I got to sit through and listen. to that and I was like okay no that's it. like I'm done I've music you know yeah. that's what I that's what I took away. from that so that that that would be it. not so much me just kind of like toiling. around in my own personal Studio space. with my computers and stuff and just.

kind of coming up with it's fun too. but it's just not the same as working. with a team of you know people and and. and. being respectful of that space to do it. exclusively in that space not not force. my into it you know what I. mean like saying here's a whole bunch of. EDM I just I just want you to be like an. accompanying thing in the back so that I. can say that I did that you know what I. mean no we I just like no we're doing. this 100% traditional pen and.

paper that's amazing let's do it. yeah it was it was great when you're. when you are making your. music do you know what's going to be a. hit I really don't no no my biggest hit. I almost canned I I the guy there. was a guy at uh mous trp that was. working for us named Harvey tabman uh he. was my tour manager for like a little. bit I brot strobe uh in a hotel. room at the Great Eastern hotel in. England I had my computer and everything.

and I just kind of did that track and. then I just basically kind of packaged. it together with five other things that. I just went here guys listen to these. what do you what's the take or what do. we what are we doing here and I have my. money on this other one or something and. um Harvey's like oh love this. one this this strobe one I'm like. yeah no I'm not doing it nope NOP eruse. no it's just I just it's not there for. me like the sound and he's like right. mate you got to put it out and I'm like.

no dude it's not happen he badgered me. for months and then finally when we had. to we had to get something else out that. I I literally ran out of options I just. gave in I was like fine Harvey and then. we put it out and it just became my. biggest track like a short of. ghost and stuff which was also written. in the same hotel room actually no. kidding yeah yeah yeah that's why I. called it ghost and stuff because. allegedly that hotel is haunted and my. door kept opening so and I arbitrarily. like I'm like that uh I Love Lamp that's.

how I name. tracks you know what I mean like like. literally if I we're finishing a track. right now I call it a. fanda no kidding that's it mhm just done. kick it out the door I yeah just okay. there's the name um and not like uh name. after some natural disaster or poisonous. animal which seems to be the. Trend in EDM what's it called tsunami. what's it called trantula what's it. called Viper.

like I'm just not that pretentious I. guess what's it called it's called. fist McGee I don't care just put it out. what is uh what's what's your new what's. your newest Grammy nomination for uh oh. me and Cascade um for a kx5 album dance. album of the year it's pretty. cool um I neat I I don't know what to. say I mean like I get it like it's it's.

it's it's nice I think it's more for the. fans than it is for my personal. satisfaction I remember actually had a. really funny conversation with Trent. resner about Grammys once and I was just. like he he was up for oh no sorry Emy or. Grammys or some Golden Globe I don't. know some he he did uh gong. Girl soundtrack right with kiss Ross and. it's like still like one of my favorite. soundtracks and he was up for like. either a Grammy or a some thing. that you get in Hollywood for doing a.

thing right one of those and um he was. uh I would I was talking to him about. some other unrelated and I knew he. was up for the thing and he and he. didn't win it over some other. right like or whatever you I'm sure it. was in but just like he just. basically didn't win it I I remember. saying I'm like yeah but I mean come on. man like you've done so much like. do you really need a shiny piece of. plastic to validate your. position in what you do dude. really and then he went yeah I.

do cuz I cuz he worked so hard. at it you know what I mean like and that. was like his thing and I was like I was. not expecting that answer from. him at all I was just like holy I. was like okay I I kind of get it cuz I. did feel that way once or twice when on. maybe my third or fourth nomination and. then just decided I'm not even going to. show up cuz it's just it's the same it's. the same batch every year and it's the.

same batch this year too same and. I'm like I think we all know how this is. going to play out so but cool it's good. to be recognized you know what I mean. and I I feel good that like hey I'm I'm. still getting nominated for these. things which means I'm still. doing it like kind of okay you know what. I mean like I'm not. like falling off. and and and pigeon ho holding myself. into the same sound that would just. stagnate my. into Back Into Obscurity you know what I. mean uh like like that's a really hard.

thing to do as an artist I I would. imagine is um being able to keep it. up you know what I mean like because a. lot of guys will come up with some. really great ideas and have these. original hits and just come flying out. of the gate 2 years. yeah you know what I mean l it's it's. it's not the act of making that hit it's. the act of being consistently doing. things and and that's not even just.

music cuz I am I do so much other. even now outside of EDM so that when. when my music career just decides to I. like to say I'm only ever one tweet away. from ending. this it's you know what I mean. so you got to keep that in mind and that. that's not just for me that's anybody. you know what I mean you're only ever. one to away from ending your. career so so keep your ancillary.

ports open and your interests vested in. all sorts of things and you know what I. mean not that I'm planning on something. but I just mean you know it's just I. like I like I like the idea that my. house can burn down and I'll be. like just move over. here you know what I mean. and then just go somewhere else yeah or. or do something else or whatever I mean. you have a lot of other. interests yeah software technology I'm.

in the beverage space apparently that's. fun when how did that start um just some. buddies from Toronto local dudes uh. we're like Hey we're starting to drink. you want to you want to be a you want to. invest you know like well okay that's. not really a big ask you know like it's. not a b huge commitment for me other. than you know my brand so don't it. up you know and uh yeah I went in with. them and and they just they rocketed it. they are such businessmen I not like I.

I'm I've Got a Brand and I've got like. aesthetic and uh stuff like that so why. I lent them that and you know those kind. of social networking things that need to. happen but uh yeah they killed it they. now they're distributed all over. Canada and the states and everywhere now. I'm like wow you guys are really doing. this what is it it's called Coco Vodka. Coco Vodka it's. like what it sounds like coconut flavor. vodka got it nice and apparently it's.

pretty good I mean I like it like but. but like a I like I like I like eating. dry ice tea mix so what does that tell. you you know but I like um a lot of. people like it so people come over it. like I know and I I tend to associate. myself with like like like I said people. that won't blow smoke up my ass cuz I. there's nothing more I can't stand than. is a yes person like that just. like prove me wrong educate me you know. what I mean like don't say you're wrong. and then say you and then walk out. I just mean like you know contribute and.

then I'll learn something and that's. amazing for both of us right because you. get to correct a dude who you. know is that and I get to learn. something you know and that's cool so. like again the but even when it comes to. video games like the taste of like uh. what games you like to play you. know what I mean I I like to tell. someone I play pubg and they're. like dude that kid trash and you. should put and I'm like yeah and then we. can have a conversation you know what I. mean so I don't surround myself with. like oh yeah guys you know what I mean. so and and those people like I said I've.

given them this stuff and they're like. yeah it's it's pretty good like I like. it can you get me a case and I'm like. okay so they're doing it right how long. when did that. start 3 years ago oh right on yeah yeah. so they've been at it like they they. their definition of they can peel. oranges in their Pockets they're. like Grinders dude yeah they're out. there but that's cool man I got to tell. you that's refreshing to hear that you. don't surround yourself with a bunch of. Yes Men uh I mean I I feel like a lot of.

people do that well some people that's. the validation they need I don't know I. think everybody just wants you. appreciate that you appreciate somebody. calling you out no well within reason if. it has substance you know what I mean if. it can be if it can be empirically. backed up you know what I mean like I. said like I I love iism too but I don't. love you suck you like constructive. criticism constructive but not even. constructive like I'm saying hey I need. a 20 page essay and then I'll.

take you. seriously no I just need a point you. know what I mean like like something. like. empirical I'm very empirical based you. know in terms of. like I don't know you you say that but. what why would you say that you know. what I mean cuz there's a lot of like. and maybe I'm kind of crusading in such. a way that's like there's a lot of. tutorials on like YouTube and stuff like. that for dudes that like you know kind.

of poise themselves as. professionals and maybe by qualification. that. says um I once got paid for this. therefore I'm a professional or I I. don't know where we draw that line. nowadays with a lot of this kind of. noise that you see on social media of. I'm a this guy I'm I do this and I I'm. not saying I need to see your. credentials before I take your. opinion because you don't like you could. be smart without having done anything.

and a lot of people are like that but. there's a lot of tutorial stuff where. people are then kind of enforcing that. education on other people and they're. like basically I don't know what this. does but you should do it yeah and we. should all just homogenize our sound to. this you know use this limiter at the. end of the chain to make it as loud as. possible when empirically you'd be. saying hey let's strip all the dynamic. range out of your track so it'll sound. in a nightclub but it'll sound. really great on your earbuds you know.

what I mean which kind of is a play I. suppose and then and then when they're. kind of called out on that. they're like well that's the. style like well you can't argue. that you know what I mean it's like it's. like you remember they like we used to. we our black metal was recorded through. a a headphone you know what I. mean and it was done stylistically that. of course it's empirically wrong you. know what I mean but then then but you. they like to hide behind this art wall.

Goa to hide their ignorance yeah you. know what I mean so like that I don't. like that those are the kind of. arguments I knew is hiding behind. art you know hiding ignorance behind art. I hate that cuz there's such a shield. you can throw up in front of. anything these days you know what I mean. that could just invalidate. anyone's Justified opinion over yours. yeah you know what I mean so it's.

like it's like saying 1+ 1 is. three what uh what are some things that. you struggle with that bother you. being social I think you'd like to be. able to improve how social are being. being people that I.

like you know what I mean MH. um like I said I mean I don't I don't. know like I mean I've known Tommy for. like 20 years you know what I. mean and I still feel. like maybe there's like just some. about him. that um. um isn't what I would want you know what. I mean like to be like or something like. that but I've just never seen it you. know what I mean um but but like I I.

struggle. to kind of be a person that I respect. you know what I mean cuz it's hard not. being myself which is this kind of like. abrasive dude sometimes you know what I. mean like in situations you know what I. mean it's like I I can I can make a. conscious effort not to be a dick to. someone I think I should be a dick to. you know what I mean like I can I can. behave like that that's fine but I I. sometimes.

can't I don't know if that makes any. sense I. can't everybody wants to. be liked I guess you know what I mean to. a degree or you I don't think anyone. really wants to be hated or villainized. or whatever nobody nobody probably gets. any satisfaction out of that if they say. they do it's just because they've just. gone so far down that road. that's all they know and they're like. okay I think I like this and this I'm a. bad guy look at me I'mma go to Mars you.

know like. whatever. um but like it's just really hard. to. constantly put myself in a head space. where I should be like someone I respect. when I'm dealing with. a an unknown person you know what I mean. that's tough it's hard not to be. yourself yeah do.

you. I how often do. you how often are you I don't know how. to ask this question it is weird. I I think I know where you're. going how often do you find yourself not. being yourself not being true to. yourself not being Who You Are. not that often not that often because. I've made a point to be just so reclus. you know what I mean and I avoid people. like I avoid them in shows not not like.

like get away from me no I just mean. like are you avoiding people or certain. situations certain situations with. people you know what I mean I guess um I. don't I don't have the best empathy at. all you know what I mean I don't know. what it is I don't I can admit that you. know what I mean because a lot of people. are like just like totally virtu. signaling on how they feel for everybody. and this and that no this is why I'm so. nice is because I understand this I some.

sometimes I just don't get people at all. I don't get I I don't feel that same. kind of. like bummed outness that you would feel. if your cat died you know what I mean I. I can relate but I can't be as sad as. you and fully understand you and that's. why we wouldn't get along at that time. you know what I mean yeah I do so that's. weird you don't take other people's you. don't take on the baggage that other.

people have and it's not because I can't. I'm not emotionally equipped to deal. with I I just mean that like yeah this. is really. deep cuz I've never I've never really. thought about that that much to prove my. point but uh yeah I don't I. don't. really empathize as as much as people. would want you to I'm not saying I'm. like totally devoid of empathy I. I don't know I've just been in. I've been in relationships and I've been.

through you know family tragedies and. stuff like that and I've always felt. like I was the guy who gave the least. amount of you know what I mean. like but I mean the least amount of. not like in the world like I'm. like that I get what you're saying man. you're saying you're saying you feel. guilty because you don't feel guilty and. then they're like well that that's kind. of a form of empathy too but yeah but. it's not it's different you know what I. mean I do cuz I remember I remember I. remember getting called out for that.

once I'm probably going to catch. for this but like I remember my. grandma's funeral it was like everybody. was like you know what I mean well. funerals bummer you know. Grandma's dad and and we were me and my. grandmother were the closest right she's. the one that got me into computers and. and she she bought the atar for herself. so we could go over and play it and. stuff like that she was the she was the. the one right that kind of got me in. there right so and I was like I I.

remember being at the service and I'm. just. like and my sister actually kind of gave. me the what for you know what I mean. like why aren't you and I and then we. got we got in a fight over it you know. what I mean like no not. like on or whatever but there was some. some friction some friction there you. know what I mean I'm just like I just I. don't know I just I'm not that upset. over it you know what I mean not not not. like I'm glad I just mean that that's.

that's what happens and I'm you. know what I mean like I don't I don't. want to put myself where you're at going. to dwell on it yeah and whatever it's so. and it was really weird and that's what. I was like man am I just am I going. to grow up to be a serial killer. like what's going on here you know what. I mean that made me question a couple. things so yeah that's and I. haven't even really thought about that. until you literally just brought that up. in like 20. years so that's really. weird but yeah I guess that's I if I.

could do better at that it would be at. that or at least faking. it you know what I mean I don't know if. I mean I don't think there's a reason to. fake it I mean people people well yeah. because. ask why are you so weird dude people. like to man I don't want to say lower. themselves but they you know they will. they like to dwell on on stuff you know.

and it's it's they don't want to leave. the tragedy or whatever they're whatever. they're in at the moment that's that's. that's that's keeping them down you know. they they a lot of people I think they. just they dwell in that and that's. face yeah but it's not even just that it. could just be a simple basic like it. doesn't have to be that heavy I just. mean like even things like where like uh. I had some fans come up to me at an.

airport once and it was it was the worst. possible time to come talk to me. like I was so pissed long story. short but like like I just like this. went down with my tech and. and I had a show and I was like on zero. sleep and I'm losing my. mind cuz this piece of software was. doing this say anyway it was it was. enough to throw me into a murderous rage. and these people came up to me and I. didn't I didn't know who the they. were right they just start talking at me. right and I'm just. like not having it right and and just.

like and I said would you just off. you know like basically like I don't I. don't know who the you are I didn't. know who they were right and then and. then as they were leaving they were like. well we were big fans and then I was. like sakes you know what I mean. like I can't believe I just did. that I felt terrible terrible like holy. but then I'm like well why did I. even act like that why don't I just say. hey hey you know I'm just having a. really bad time right now like like like. Tommy would you know what I mean or or.

someone else I know would you know what. I mean like where I just like literally. let him have it in the airport. where people were like damn like what. the going on over there and I was. like yeah one one thing I mean I'm new. with this you know and uh my name's. gaining a lot of recognition these days. with the show and and um one thing I'm. starting to notice is. the the bigger things get the it's like. you're not allowed to have a bad day no. everybody's allowed to have a bad day.

but you can't have a bad day or else. you're a. yeah you feel like that yeah. sometimes sometimes but then but when. you think of it that way like literally. The Audacity Of it just like absolves. you from any you you've ever. said and you get on with your. day like I said I I forgot about. that incident like. two days later you know and then. I'm like fine cool I even like went to. Twitter I was like dude cuz I felt. terrible and I I didn't like. yeah okay I've got like million. fans but you know what's what's two you.

know what I mean like well it sucks that. like just the thought of somebody's just. like thinking about what an you. are in an in your entirety because of. that one you know what I mean you don't. like yeah you're being judged by one bad. I've lost major like big deals. like literally seven figure. sponsorship things because of something. they dug up you know and they're like. well you know back in 97 you said this. on the internet and yeah and you're like.

I did I know and and that sucked. and it was stupid but me if that's. going to you know bite me in the. ass like in 2020 you know like it it's. just weird but can't be too mad. at that cuz that's just the. world we live in you know do you think. the do you think that the lack of. empathy affects relationships that. you're in personal ones personal ones. uh yeah but only the ones that just are.

kind of here there and gone every. relationship I've ever made that I feel. like I have a solid relationship with. I've been we've been friends for life. and probably will be till dead. and gone you know so like it hasn't. affected the the relationships that I. have like with Tommy or Steve or Bryce. or my lawyer or you know. like my business team and all these. people that I've been working with for. decades and decades no that what about. family or women uh family no family's.

family that's unconditional that's not. like with my family anyway you know um. it's been cool it's just like we all bug. each other and we all meet up at. Christmas and hang out at each. other's houses every now and again so. it's it's things have all mellowed out. now that we're all like. adults and so it's cool I've been. fortunate um to have that kind of. stability within the family there uh. women not so much you know I I just I.

just got to find the right one that's. like just willing to like just enjoy. just not talking about you. know I'm sure there's one out there what. are you looking for on a woman I don't. know I don't I'm not I'm not I'm not. looking for a woman you know what I mean. I'm just I'm looking to like. figure out what I'm doing this. week you know like honestly like I'm. just I'm kind of over. relationships cuz I just I don't have.

that capacity to be the the 5050 kind of. thing you know what I mean. because it's. like I used to always wonder why do. actors always date actors why do. musicians always date musicians I'm like. I kind of got that now not that I want. to date an actor or a musician. been there done that no thanks it's. just crazy I don't know yeah I think I. think. maybe as I get older and wiser I'll calm. down and get a more solid routine like.

some dudes are great at that. like Cascade amazing there. a wife three daughters and you tours. like a and he just makes it. work cuz he's just a Zen cow in. India you know like he's just he. just goes with it he's all good but me. I'm like I'm just high octane stress and. travel and and then thinking of my next.

like kind of thing you know when we. talk about kind of the I want to ask you. how you handled the come up in when it. comes to. fame how have you dealt with that i'. like I said I've always I've always felt. it's like the just it's weird like I was. really off put by somebody coming up. with me and asking for an autograph not. because it was inconvenient to me. because I can't.

relate I don't know what it is with me. or whatever but I just I don't care who. it is I I mean of course I respect. people and I and I I like look up to. people that you know some people that. are like you know uh really brilliant in. an area that I only wish I was a. fraction of are talented in music and. but I don't think I have ever had that. so much of a feeling that I wouldn't. know how to control myself if I was near. them or was locked in a room with them.

or or chance to meet them and like. that I just don't get it and I think. maybe that's the same part of your brain. that the empathy thing I don't. know but um I. have I would have imagined that like say. meeting Trent resner at Mel's Diner at. La would have been like this big. I've waited my whole life for this. moment thing but it was literally. honestly just diluted down to two. nerds eating shitty food at mels.

talking about. how Twitter sucks or something. you know what I mean like it's just it. wasn't anything it wasn't like you know. me looking into his eyes and thanking. him for inspiring me to be this you know. it's like and it was because I just like. people do that to me all the time and. I'm like and I'm not saying I'm going to. spare you that I just didn't feel. compelled to do it you know what I mean. it's just like I don't like I don't. think he personally picked me you know.

and then decided to start a career so. that he could get me where I needed to. be you know that's a that's a weird way. to think about it you know yeah cuz. that's how I would imagine it would make. him feel if I said that you know what I. mean and it's it's almost the way but. you can't be rude you can't. you can't you can't tear people. down by. saying nothing to like like I I do. meeting RS like I can I can perform like.

socially with people like I can deal. with a fan that's fine you know in the. right setting of course not when I got. my dick in my hands to the Ural. and a dude comes up beside you he's like. hey bro I really like your music. and you turn around and go what you know. like if that's up like there have. been some weird things like that. but in the right setting at the right. time read the room you. know and I'm approach and so hey man you. know I'm a really big fan you know I do. this because of you you know and I'm. like that's like that's heavier than you.

know you know what I mean to put on. somebody you know what I mean I'm not. saying I'm like I'm going to yell at him. I I just go oh cool man good good well. you know best of luck just don't go. getting better than me you know what I. mean you're like whatever you know you. play it off but like I I I truly truly. truly don't know how to respond. to. uh I do this cuz of you yeah you know. what I mean I don't I don't know how to. deal with that I'm not saying I nobody. should I just I do not I am not.

emotionally equipped to deal with like. praise. or anything like that like I've done. some Supernatural thing that you can't. do you know what I mean because I'm not. you could totally do this anyone can do. it it's. just I am that weird anomaly. that did you know like and locked out. somehow you didn't quit didn't quit. yeah but by that logic too if you're. saying well if everybody why aren't.

we all you know like big EDM. Mouse head wearing DJs well I mean. everybody's got a gift you know do you. believe that it's I do 10% I. believe that I believe everybody has. something that they're good at but I. think that you know I think it takes I. think it takes drive and dedication and. time to develop it and most people don't. they're not willing to put forth the. effort half of them never even. discover their gift then when it's given.

to them and they do Discover it they're. too lazy to develop it okay well. that's fair that's kind of like schro. anger's gift. though you know what I mean y yeah so I. I guess that's 50/50 on the argument. that everybody is I mean and then and. then there's the risk too you know. there's the risk they're not going to. take the a lot of people aren't going to. take the risk I mean that's just. entrepreneurship 101 right if you're not. going to take the risk yeah yeah yeah. you're not going to get the reward oh. yeah no I mean yeah my risk was quitting.

at sit holy I quit a full-time. job with you know pretty decent. benefits and stuff to just say it. I'm going to do music Nobody Does that. man nobody does that very rarely and. when they do it's not every one of those. is going to come out you know mean like. that's why it's a risk yeah. that's what the I just don't know what. to say when anyone's like what advice. can you give me as I'm just starting my.

journey what what what advice would you. give me I'm like dude I do not want to. lead you down yeah the the path. of Glory or the. the rest of your nightmarish. life you know like I I don't know dude. you know like that's like again that's. so heavy too is I get the lightness of. the question hey if if you had one piece. of advice to give a a musician what. would it be I'm like dude this is. dangerous you know what I mean like like. man quit your job and do it.

full-time you know what I mean but then. you know like I mean it's a lot of the. advice you know. that I I I think people just don't some. of it's so simple you know the advice to. to success can be so simple it's. like trust your gut man what. everybody else is saying do what you. want to do do what you believe is the. right thing get a good lawyer Nobody. Does It Nobody Does it you know but on.

that note let's take a quick break when. we come back we'll start digging into. what you're doing now with your new. companies I've spent more time than I. would like to admit researching. testing trying to find the perfect. mattress that's going to give me a good. night's sleep and it basically got to. the point where I just gave up I suffer. from chronic back pain it comes from 14.

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Helix better sleep starts. now I want to tell you about this. business venture I've been on for about. the past 78 months and it's finally come. to. fruition I've been hellbent on finding. the cleanest functional mushroom. supplement on the planet and that all. kind of stemmed from the Psychedelic. treatment I did came out of it got a ton. of benefits haven't had a drop of. alcohol in almost 2 years I'm more in.

the moment with my family and that led. me down researching the benefits of just. everyday functional mushrooms and I. started taking some supplements I found. some coffee Replacements I even wrapped. a brand and you know it got to the point. where I just wanted the finest. ingredients available no matter where. they come from and it it it got to this. point where I was just going to start my. own brand and so we started going to.

trade shows and and looking for the. finest ingredients and in doing that I. ran into this guy maybe you've heard of. him his name's lar Hamilton and his wife. Gabby Reese and they have an entire line. of supplements with all the finest. ingredients and we got to. talking turns. out they have the perfect functional. mushroom supplement it's actually called. performance.

mushrooms and this has everything it's. USDA organic it's got chaga craps Lion's. man. Miaki this stuff is amazing for energy. balance for cognition look just being. honest see a lot of people taking care. of their bodies I do not see a lot of. people taking care of their. brain this is the product guys and so we. got to talking. and our value seemed very aligned we're.

both into the functional. mushrooms and after a lot of back and. forth I am now a shareholder in the. company I have a small amount of. ownership and I'm just look I'm just. really proud to be repping and be a part. of the company that's making the best. functional mushroom supplement on the. planet you can get this stuff at layered. superfoods.com you can use the promo.

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cigarette yeah and uh we're getting. ready to dive into some of the some of. the new Ventures that you're going in. outside of music but you have a uh. very you have a history you have a nice. legal career yeah well no my lawyer does. that's for sure what uh uh well i' I've. gotten in but not not like dumb. like criminal or or a I didn't. bring on but it's just like the mouse.

logo was I guess Disney had a huge. problem with that but not until. like after 8 years of me actually using. the mark you know what I mean so even. the you know the trademark office is. like but you could have contested this. decade ago oh you just waited for him to. get big and now you're mhm now you're. scared you know what I mean but I mean. we're we're also talking about a company. that's been known to sue daycares for. paying their on their wall you know. what I mean so I mean I'm all.

for that go get them you don't. touch my brand attitude but that was a. bit excessive their big Point their. problem was. basically confusion they didn't want. people confusing me for Mickey Mouse. that was that was their biggest home run. you know that that that was the you know. we don't want people thinking you're dad. you're Mickey Mouse and you don't want. people thinking Mickey Mouse is you and. I I and basically it's like just common.

sense like I don't think my fans confuse. my brand for. yours I don't think so I don't think so. I but that but I have to we have to. prove that so we had to do like. literally they went out and did like. kind of like surveys and stuff like that. that like like kind of almost man on the. street sort of do you know who this is. they're like well either yeah or no you. know what I mean and then like do you. know who this is you know you know I. mean they're like yeah and and and they. had to use that as part of the discovery.

process for this seven year long. battle that that was seven years. something like that yeah I mean what. what what's it like when you get a what'. you get a cease and assist well kind of. they they they they every I think it's. like 5 years or so I I don't I don't. actually know I should know this I'm I'm. really my lawyer is going to kill me for. not knowing this cuz she makes it a. point to educate me on on IP law and all. this stuff and and I actually do know a. lot about it but just this one. particular thing is that you need to um. register and re-register your marks.

every period or something like that so. basically um Disney McDonald's whoever. right to T they their registration like. expires after a certain amount but. they've got someone already ahead of. that you know what I mean so that just. it's literally rolls over and. everything's smooth and all the correct. uh things are are filed to the upst or. whatever or USPTO and. um uh I guess someone fell asleep at the. wheel of contesting it when I renewed.

mine right and then Disney kind of tried. to. proactively stop me from doing that but. all the while Disney being as huge as. they are more lawyers than animators you. know what I mean uh they they were also. ask there were certain parts of Disney. getting asking me to do things with. Disney while this other part of Disney. was preventing me from well trying to. stop me from using my.

mark so they're like no no true story. and this is kind of like how we got out. of it to some degree was that they. wanted me to score the new. Fantasia and then they wanted me to stop. being dead. mouse interesting one guys you know what. I mean it was really weird and it was um. it it made some textbooks over like uh. copyright law and stuff like that so too. so while they're trying to shut down. dead mouse they're also using Dead Mouse.

music in some of their stuff without. even licensing it from me are you. serious swear to God it was a thing and. we and so we had to put a CND D back on. Disney too so all these little like. little footnotes came up in the. thing and I'm like I can't believe this. is so expensive like cuz it is to to. just to perpetuate it to keep it going. just to keep like you got to pay lawyers. the Disney lawyers aren't working for. free and my lawyer is not working for. free so this just whole thing is just.

they won they won the lawyers won yeah. you know what I mean that's how it. always goes right and and we as far as. I'm allowed to say have reached an. amicable agreement where we can coexist. you know that just I think like me and. Eisner should have just duked it out in. a room you know but it didn't happen hey. I mean but I remember I actually I. really remember I I was playing uh I. think it was. Orlando where I had to play a I think it. was a hard rock or or something like. that but it was on Disney property and.

this is like right in the the pre the. heat of this like lawsuit right. that's all over the place and. they're like yeah so you're like you're. playing Disney basically you know cuz. this venue is like inside Disney World. or whatever I'm like. dude I don't know man this sounds pretty. SK cuz like I'm going to like what are. they going to like walk me in in the. dark room and then you know Goofy's. going to come out with a bat you. know like I don't know man like how's.

this going to end and it was just so. weird I I wonder if I'm on a. list I've haven't I I went to Disneyland. when I was like a little kid like with. the family for like a little trip thing. but I've never been since but I heard. it's pretty cool and I want to go just. to see just see what happens see if you. made the list yeah so the Disney thing. was cool uh oh um and I uh I've been in. court with Cheer Bear from the Care. Bears for uh probably another seven or.

eight years what yeah no cartoon. characters only. man yeah I've only ever been in court. with cartoon characters three of them. Mickey Mouse and Cheer Bear and uh a. cartoon cat named yton hold on what's. what's the what's the Care Bear one yeah. you like that one E Yeah so uh I um when. I first started uh publishing my. music immediately after the bsod stuff. right so the like faxing Berlin like.

that all stuff I I signed to this record. label called play records in uh Toronto. but like I I didn't have a lawyer I. didn't have anything and I was just kind. of basically like kind of hauled into a. kitchen basically like oh you know just. sign this and I'll be your manager and N. no I'm like you know what they're pay my. rent all. right sign this. cool started putting music out. and then and then I outgrew you know. what I mean I outgrew the label and it. wasn't like there was nothing nefarious.

or or or there was no friction between. us towards that part because it was just. so common sense so obvious right like. I'm doing I have the potential to do so. much business I think with this the. mouse brand now that you can't handle it. you're just this like the basement. literal basement label that like you. can't you you won't be able to book me. gigs you won't be able to like you know. keep up with distribution and all this. stuff and it's just it's just like. you're just not competent enough to. handle that so I'm going to go and sign.

with another a new uh label out in the. UK right which I think was um Club class. at the time and um it was who's my. manager still to this day Dean Wilson. and uh I had a a conversation I'll never. forget get with this lady oh so the lady. she was the voice of Cheer Bear from the. Care Bears and her husband um uh. basically kind of had a lot to do with. Nana the studio that did like um e walks.

the cartoon and Star Wars and Rock and. Rule and those old vintage cartoons from. Canada you probably don't even know them. but there it was a thing it was kind of. a big deal and so they made a lot of. money doing that and she was kind of. like a trophy wife that was like in the. basement yeah run a record label you. know so that's that's how it came to be. right. um and so uh again like I said it got to. this point where I was like I'm going to. go do this and she she got really mad at. that like cuz I'm just like look this is.

I don't hate you and this isn't anything. personal it's just like honestly like I. will I will I will starve in this little. Pond I need to go and explore. some other and she just got. nasty she was just like well and my. favorite quote from her you go do. whatever you want and I'm like. okay sweet thanks oh she goes you know. you're not. Testo literal she said that and I. went you know what like you know and. maybe at the time it might have hurt my.

feelings a little bit but you now I just. I love to say you're right I'm. dead. mouse so anyway it turned into this. petty where it was just like you. know go do whatever you want you know. kind of like verbally said that to me. and I'm like. I guess that's all I need you know what. I mean so I go to Dean and I I I. disclosed everything to Dean I said well. Dean I did I do have this thing with. this like small label and whatever and. he's like whatever we'll work that out.

you know like me we're going to. shop you to Emi you know like they can. buy and sell them in a minute so. whatever it's all good we'll work it out. and I'm like okay but just you know like. I I like transparency I'm not like a. shitty person business-wise so let's. just do this thing and and and. we did for two three years uh you know. we we developed Ed Mouse and we started. mouse trap and then and then we signed. to Emi and I got some big. swinging dick lawyers out in the UK. sheridans they represented the Beatles. and Pink Floyd and all those guys and.

I'm like okay this is good the path to. righteousness finally a team big enough. to you know do my then you. know some music comes out I start making. a lot more noise and then all of a. sudden I'm getting booked and I'm like. yes so I'm playing like Ministry of. Sound and government and all these. International nightclubs and of course. this gets back to Mel right and. ghost and stuff comes out and it's a big. hit and and then Mel's. like I got this contract that says I you.

know what I mean I'm like oh you. kidding me okay whatever fine I'll. entertain it you know what I mean so. then then the lawyers started coming out. and it's like she and and she retains. the rights to a lot of my early stuff. that I made in that basement you know. what I mean so it's been really Petty. yeah you know so it's like she'll she'll. releasee these things every year that's. like cuz she can yeah you know what I. mean but I can ALS be a deck I can I can. refuse any remixes any remakes you know. and any kind of like derivative works of.

those I can shut those down because they. need my approval you know not all is. lost but I just there are certain pieces. of my earlier catalog that I just can't. touch cuz that'll make her a dime damn. you know what I mean I'm like that sucks. but that's the business honestly so like. I'm not even that mad because you got to. you got to get a few times you. know what I mean to learn a thing you. can't. just you know what I mean and then be. totally fine you like TLC and Hammer and.

all these people you know what I mean. like they no one's immune to it you know. so like that's that's maybe not advice. for a beginning musician but like if you. if you really want to be active in this. business and and be a have a journey in. there you're going to get that's. not it's not it's not if it's who and. when you know and and hopefully not so. bad and that honestly wasn't even that. bad I mean it's just annoying and it's. just a part of my story but like it's. just I just wish it wasn't but oh well.

you know yeah yeah uh yeah and then um. so that's that's Cheer Bear Mickey and. then meowington a cartoon cat uh I had a. cat named meowington who just recently. passed away uh lived to be about 16 and. and that cat I bought like um I I. adopted him from the Humane Society in. Toronto and he's just been my bro you. know what I mean like my sanity from the. very start like 16 years you know what I.

mean so so this cat seen some you. know but of course he he doesn't travel. with me he just kind of hangs out the. house but he's just a little you know. the little floor duster that comes and. greets me when I get home and you know. what I mean he's like my bro you know. like so that I love that cat and so like. uh I I'd share a lot of that cat's like. kind of stuff with everybody and it's. like the cat hat fans right so. meowington was like a big part of my. brand like I put them on album covers. and we made meowington merch and stuff.

for kids and stuff like that and cat. toys and all this dumb right and it. was just like meowington was part of. dead mouse this is like d m yton you. know it's like of course I know his cat. you know what I mean so cuz I really. like. the cat and he was just part of the crew. so um uh there was a a cat toy company. named. meowington like that just kind of came. out of nowhere and then said you know. nope not happening you got to you got to.

cut out all that your meowington Mar I. don't even I I can't even remember what. their claim was or something like that I. think it was like a probably like a. copyright thing but I mean I I had all. the marks I owned you know all the. meowington stuff and you know we you. could contested this and and you know it. was some startup cat toy. in Toronto and my lawyer God. bless her she is a genius so. this this this meowington company was.

from Toronto which I thought oh funny. that you know I mean like okay so. they're neighbors um I got to POS that's. how stupid that was so um uh by you know. a company run by like a 20 something. year old girl you know that does this. thing and I have to go sit through a. deposition like I'm like dude this is. like something you do when you. like kill somebody defraud someone of.

millions uh I don't know embezzle. company money or something serious you. know what I mean but this they just want. the name meowington and I'm like but. that's my cat's name and you know what I. mean it's like it's nothing personal. dude I'm not I'm not selling cat treats. swear I could but that's a good idea but. but I won't you know instead of just. some coexist you you know they just. decide to take it and and make it a big. deal so uh it's it was my first.

deposition so I was kind of like I. didn't know like I I didn't even get to. depose for the Disney thing right so I'm. thinking like this is going to be weird. yeah right so I'm in this deposition my. lawyer's here and this. their lawyer is doing the asking. me all these goddamn questions. right like like not like you but like I. mean just like asking me my life story. right he's like and then I he's like so. when did you start making music you I'm. like oh and I'm just like spilling my.

guts right like I'm just telling the. facts right and then then we get a. timeout going to this other room right. and then my lawyer's assistant is. yelling at me she goes you you why are. you blabbing why are you talking so much. I'm like cuz I didn't do. anything wrong you know what I mean like. I'm like whatever you just asking the. she goes okay well you just got it I'm. like all right whatever get back into. the deposition I'm sitting down and then. and then he's like uh it started getting. weird he goes uh did you did you in fact.

date cat Von D and I'm. like Google it you know yes you know. what I mean like why he goes did you. know that cat Von D was very good. friends with lemie from. motohead. yes what what where what the are. you what are you doing dude like you.

know and then he goes did you know that. lemie had a cat and I'm. like no actually I didn't know that. that's pretty funny uh cool story bro do. you know the cat's name I'm like no. are you gon to tell me or do I have to. Google it like it just turned into like. a big joke CU this guy's like he's like. I got him I got him with this and I'm. like it's sting there he's like did you. know the cat's name was.

meowington I'm like. no he's like okay next question you know. what I mean then he starts asking all. these stupid questions and my. lawyer is like shut up you idiot. you know what I mean and then I'm like. holy like you see that just goes. stop gaslighting my client you. piece of you're a piece of and. then the stenographer ladyes like on. fire My Le my lawyer is just. killing her like and I'm like oh my God. this is madness like is this going to be.

my light is this a taste of. like you know like any weird uh. copyright case that I run into with. music or something like that and it. turns out it was and I was like oh dude. this is the worst this is so TV. weirdness stop it so then and then my. lawyer comes. out for our turn to talk or whatever and. she just throws down this. envelope like basically saying okay well. hey Emma is this your boyfriend she's.

like yeah she your boyfriend at DJ and. she goes yeah and you guys don't know. who dead mouse is and she goes no not. really and then everyone's like kind of. rolling their eyes but okay sure that's. that's your claim that's your. claim cuz you can't disprove that they. know me you know but every. Millennial in Toronto knew who I. was at that time right and and so uh so. okay yeah so so basically you she's just. trying to say you didn't name your. company cuz de Mouse had a cat named. meowington and now you're just. here to be a basically right and.

so that was kind of the cell and then. she's like yeah no no we didn't know who. he was and she goes is that your. boyfriend she's like yeah how long you. been with him she's like I don't know. like 10 years whatever so your. boyfriend's a GJ right and she's like. yeah he plays a d d and okay okay your D. boyfriend doesn't know who dead mouse is. and she's like no and she found a. picture of her boyfriend DJing. and she Zooms in on the C player. my name right across that and. then it just kind of went away it was so.

I was like Dena you. madman like holy you are the best a. oh my God it's like you even try like. this is. amazing still my lawyer that's awesome. how I met her was even good how'd you. meet her Dena yeah oh my God I was on a. tour bus with Tommy Lee Tommy Lee had a. little person on the bus because it was. he was like kind of part of this band of.

this troop of little people that uh were. part of the carnival of sins themed tour. and uh his name was Mike mcera Mighty. Mike they called him and Mike was a. little talker heavy drinking little. guy who just loved to fight everybody. and one time on the bus he was just. getting out of control and we were all. like kind of little sauce to and we were. around so we picked him up and. we hung him out of the bus window and we. were in a parking lot like a mall of the. America kind of thing like just slowly. driving around we told the bus driver.

guy we're like hey do a couple. laps whatever and we were holding Mike. out of the bus window like by his feet. and we're laughing our asses off and. whatever we're going to. kill him or anything but then we just. kind of pulled him back in well it turns. out somebody saw. this and then um called the police so. the police start kind of showing up this. is like when I'm like this was that that. first tour right basically after we all. got friendly and and um uh Tony.

Tommy's assistant like guys I. don't know what just got pack it. up and close the window and. don't come out cuz we we saw the. blue lights and all that we're like. uhoh like what what what happened what. did we do oh you know like we're not. doing anything like what so Tony's like. Tony's on the phone with Tommy's. lawyer like dealing was and then. for whatever thing he made it go away. and it turns out that somebody thought.

we were hanging a child out of the out. of the window of the bus and called the. police as as they should and uh yeah but. we then Tony had to basically say look. it's not a child but either way it won't. happen again yeah it's Tommy Lee's in. the back just let's not make this a. thing and I guess the cops were cool. with it and laughed and uh they had talk. to the lawyer and stuff and it all went. away and that was that that was business. as usual like that was just pretty funny.

thing but but what I what made that. funny is uh about 10 years. later I uh was in a I was going into a. lawyer's office I was getting a new. lawyer and uh they tell me her name's. Dena she she reps all these people she's. like a great lawyer and all stuff and. you go meet her say hi and and deal with. some unrelated like other she's not my. lawyer but I still had to deal with her. kind of uh so I go up to meet her. and uh she's cool she's sitting there.

Dash oh hi and I'm like hi hi how you. doing she goes oh so you're uh you're. Joel and I'm like yeah Joel she goes. Joel Zimmerman yeah yeah cool she goes. oh cool so what do you do you're like. you do me she really didn't know and uh. she I'm like oh it's like like DJ stuff. she goes oh okay and she goes oh what's. your DJ name and I go dead mouse and she. just. just just changed people. on in front of me and she was like you. it was you and I was like like I'm.

terrified because like I know Dena like. I knew her by reputation and the the. Havoc she's done and the legal. business is like of all the lawyers you. want to not like you she's the last and. I was like oh my God I'm done I'm done. I'm done and I'm just like sinking in my. chair and she's like pointing her finger. and she like it was you and I'm thinking. like what what like dude she's got to. have like some weird person or something. or have me confused with someone else.

I'm like me what what what what what did. I do she goes you were hanging Mike out. of the tour bus with Tommy and even back. in cuz she was the lawyer on the phone. holy when uh Tony had to call. because she was representing Tommy at. the time and and I we had a. laugh you're like well now you know what. you're in for like well there you go she. goes she goes every time I hear your. name it's always you and Tommy and you. and Tommy it's like always getting in. for something but it was really.

funny and then um did she have the. retainer I retained her that's my lawyer. yeah and she's she charges me hourly. right on man no. retainer well there's another one too. that I want to talk about the Ferrari oh. yeah there's not really much to it other. than Ferrari just really got bent out of. shape that I wrapped the Yan cat stuff. on their car which is funny because you. know who had a bigger case than Ferrari. the guy that owned yangan.

cat and he was chill as he was like. oh that's funny huh and I'm like but. we're cool right he's like kill you and. I was like okay good cuz he was actually. the only one that could have done. something really Ferrari just kind of. like sent us a CN on it and we're like. how do you CN a Ferrari you know what I. mean like you buy it it's your property. kind of thing but technically not. there's some weird stuff with Ferrari. whereas if you even if you buy one it's. like they they own a a piece of like IP.

of it you know what I mean not not the. vehicle of course or the you know they. can't come and take it but they can send. a CND D over or or future sales and. stuff like that they can prevent you. from buying a new one oh okay uh like. like MSO or not MSO Ferrari wishes they. had an MSO um they uh like they if you. were on a list for a law Ferrari I was. definitely taken off so that was part of. it and it was just kind of like a. dramatic thing because they they um they.

sued a uh they sued an Italian company. called uh Puro. Puro or I I dude I'm butchering this. pure s s I don't know what means pure. blood in Italian right okay uh so that. that Ferrari was making a car called. that whatever it is and um uh there was. a charity that was donated blood by the. same name and they sued the charity oh.

man yeah cuz they wanted to name their. car that damn yeah so then I. switched over to. McLaren and they were way more. fun but wait wasn't there a Lambo didn't. a Lambo Lambo came was like oh get a. hurricane you can do whatever you want. to it and I was like okay so I kind of. bought it as a a. punchline and um well I wanted to try it. out anyway cuz it was the new hot. Lambo right um but I I just couldn't get. behind it cuz it was like four-wheel.

drive h i mean it it got off the line. quick but I like to get off the line. sideways you know what I mean I'm not. like a to B wo you know because you get. a Bugatti for that you know like if you. like driving fast in a straight line but. I don't I like to get all squirely and. weird yeah and you just can't do that. four-wheel drive really and you couldn't. disengage it you couldn't shut it off. it's all just part of it so I was like. yeah I mean it's a fun last loud car but. did you do an Uber in a McLaren yeah.

650 what the hell like where did that. come from uh I just thought it'd be. really cool like CU I always I I I I was. Uber and I I was kind of friends with. one of the guys that like founded the. company and stuff and I thought I go you. know what's really funny every time. because because they drive their own. cars right and he's like yeah you can. drive whatever you want it doesn't. matter you know and I was like oh cool. and I'm like well how come nobody Uber's. like a really cool car like a. Maybach or something or a. Ferrari or whatever and he's like well.

they could I was like I should do that. he was like can we film it and I was. like yeah sure so I was like he's like. be an Uber for a day well let's get into. some of the stuff that you're doing. today oh yeah I'm doing a lot of like um. okay so there's a I'm I'm really big. with like GPU Tech which is like. basically everything that kind of runs. on a GPU but just not AI that's the one. thing I've never really gravitated. towards because I just not that I like I.

don't think I could understand it ever. fully like programmatically and stuff. like that it's just like if but if I. were to I know I would Deep dive on that. and that would. consume a couple years so I had a couple. years it was our blessed year of 20 20. 2021 you know so two years no shows all. right. um let's play with game engines. so uh epic games the the the basically.

the company that makes fortnite as. they're mostly known um they make an. engine uh which is like basically the. backbone of a video game everything that. runs in the background uh it's kind of. like the the suite of tools that is used. to make a video game right there are. many engines there are you know um but. there are two pretty big engines one. being Unity One being unreal because. they're publicly accessible they're free.

unreal also their engine um they post. all the code for it online so it's open. source so if you want to modify the. engine however you want you can do that. too and recompile it and make your own. you know so it's just been a really. really great thing as it should be with. billion dooll companies you know is. where they share their technology so. that people could do derivative works of. it Al be you got to pay a license once. your once your gets selling and I. and they have a thing where it's like oh.

I'm I'm not sure how accurate it is now. but it's probably very similar it's like. you're you can use our engine as long as. you do under a million dollars of sales. so if I sell uh $800,000 copies of my $1. video game I made $800,000. but I think it's after a million I they. they're like they do 8% or something. like that I I don't know don't quote me. on that but it's it's something fair you. know what I mean and and totally. reasonable you know what I mean so it's. a great thing to learn on.

and that particular engine Unreal Engine. has evolved into such a big set of tools. that you could do virtual reality. experiences you could do video games you. could do uh DMX prev visualization. software. uh you know all sorts of crazy post-. production video rendering tools um uh. most notably um what's that Star Trek. guy the Bounty Hunter with the little.

baby Yoda what's the name of that show. dude I don't I'm such a huge Star. Trek. fan uh what is it Mandan Mandalorian. there you go H so the Mandalorian was. actually a lot of that used that video. game engine so they would do these uh XR. vol volumes basically so they would have. these led screens that ran Unreal Engine. scenery rendering real time so as the. camera moved you know the background. would move in relation with the camera. so that's like a video game engine. creating those live real time effects.

which is insane so that just just goes. to show you how how high you could how. of a level you could take those. production tools they're using them in. major motion pictures and stuff like. that so it's badass tool set so I'm. working on a framework which is a tool. tool set within the tool set of uh. realtime visualization software for what. I do meaning that I could build my stage. with the cube and all the LED panels and. all the lights and all their beams and. every little thing that turns on.

and off on my stage I can build it in a. an environment that you can walk around. look at play with and see and uh I can. previs my show because the other. alternative the reason I do that is. because I have to go rent a warehouse. 20,000 ft that has 700 amps and then we. have to build it you know to test it to. previs it to make sure it looks good cuz. you certain previs softwares are only so.

good you know what I mean you want to. really. like get it in a room turn off the. lights fog the lights and see how it. really looks how it would look in a. venue and how it would behave because. again you know it's there simulation but. then there's like motor time fres and. light colors and stuff like that that. you just can't really simulate properly. but I have found with Unreal Engine I. can simulate all that so I just. saved $20,000 a day you know renting a.

warehouse and having 12 crew people and. 80 computers you know what I mean by. being able to previsit in this Suite so. I'm thinking like okay well that's good. for me you know how can I make this good. for everybody right so I'm building a. kind of framework. that can be a virtual show so to speak. right now let's I'm I'm not putting all. my bets on that you know virtual shows. are the future they're not they're a. thing but they're not the future they're.

not going to replace nothing will. ever replace you getting in a car with. your friends and driving and getting. lost and puking in a. porta potty and you know what I mean. like and you know what I mean and just I. mean that's cool though that's the event. you know what I mean that's the. those are the memories you take home. from a show you know what I mean not. what he did not what he played. maybe a couple songs and that but. honestly dude my concert memories are. like just the crazy that. happened getting there being there you.

know what I mean and then out you you. were just kind of like a. passive purveyor ring leader at that. time you know what I mean it's like. going to the circus and yelling at. someone for like looking at you know. yeah where they're not supposed to at a. certain time it's stupid right so VR. will never replace that. but it would be cool to have that kind. of synchronization of that to a real.

show at the same time just cuz like. man dead mouse leeching. us $70 a ticket I mean he's no. Taylor Swift but man I think I'll. just sit this one out or be at home or. I'm not flying 5,000 mil to catch this. one show I want catch I but I. would. gladly put a dollar in a. machine and you know kind of. watch it as a video game kind of thing. as it unfolds kind of thing so and this. this this also shows I mean this is this.

is everything from your angle too as. well am I correct no no you can you can. freely navigate it like you would a. video game well what I mean is they. could get they could. get what what is it a simulation what. you call it a simul. ation it's a hard it's a hard thing to. describe if it's a simulation I mean. what I'm I guess what I'm getting at is. they can they can also get your. perspective from up on the stage correct.

if if they moved and position themselves. up that way if I design it that way yes. yeah I could that's pretty cool I could. but the but the big challenge for me on. that is it's not just creating like you. know a video game environment of my. stage that does it it's it's the cross. commmunication protocols that need to. happen in real time that can be. interchangeable between the two things. one being the reality that I'm on this. Cube and then we have this like. dark fiber or however we're. doing it to go to servers to distribute.

to thousands of other clients that same. information so they're all doing the. same thing at the same time so. everyone's kind of having that similar. experience yeah like you like everybody. that goes to the show they have they. don't have the same experience even. though they're all at the same venue no. you you can't possibly have the same. experience as someone else some someone. loves it someone hates it someone's. you know what I mean like it's. just whatever but but it's a there are. shared points of you know information. that come from the stage to the crowd. that that can be assimilated out to a.

video game type engine how close is this. to being is it ready no not even. close it's CU it's just me you know and. and again like I'm I'm no I. don't think I'm a genius I I I'll admit. and I'll and I'll do this sometimes when. it comes to like I'm a good generalist I. can pick up on Tech really quick uh. because I grew up with it and I.

understand it and and and the ones that. I've chosen to Deep dive tend to be have. a common root of a new technology that. comes out so when a new technology comes. out I could say oh I understand how like. actually 25% of this works you know or. or even 50 or 75 and but here's the. mystery I got to take some time on. that but it's all very similar to how. this works or this works you know what I. mean so um when I'm of course when I've. been learning to make music and software.

and stuff like that I I didn't know. about like stage lighting and design and. all that stuff too but as soon as I got. put in that environment when it came. time to like when I got big enough I. could start like you know taking time. with the fooh guys to say this is how. the show's going to look I I oh you guys. are using computers okay that's a start. I know how a computer works let's start. from there okay oh this is just like. midi data oh okay cuz midi is you know. this protocol that is was. invented well this the deeper story than.

this midi nerd's going to be well. actually um let's just say midi. was invented for Like You music for a. computer to talk to a music instrument. right and now there's a protocol called. DMX uh. like it's a very basic protocol that. uses a computer to talk to a moving. light to say hey do this do this do this. change color turn on use your beam don't. use the beam it's a it the protocols are. almost identical like because midi was.

actually derived from DMX but anyway. very similar protocol so when I'm. looking at this like what anyone else. would look at this like computer screen. and see all this alien code everywhere. they're like ah this is how they control. the lights holy how do you know all. this I see it as oh that's cool it's. 4 bit midi let's do this. and this and this and that okay cool and. then I get I get more hands on to it of. course I learned because DMX is. pretty old school now they use like. artet and sacn and all the.

acronyms you can think of for. like all this new ltech and protocol and. stuff like that so I'm like I I pick up. on it super quick right do you think. you'll do this with all all your shows. or just particular ones just particular. ones because. a lot of them we call them throw andg go. shows where it's like I'll show up to a. venue and it's just like it's their. Festival it's their production. everything's already done I just have to. bring what little gear I need on just. what I use and then I'm off another. guy's on you know what I mean but uh I I.

do run a festival in Toronto called veld. Music Festival well I don't run it but I. like I own it yeah a piece of it uh and. so does Inc uh tal and Charles kaboth. and charl Fel he are our business. partners in that Venture and uh we're on. our we just did our 10th year holy. so every year we go to downs view and. book all these festivals and stuff or. these Festival acts like you know Martin.

Garrick and DJ so and so and this and. that and sometimes me I'll play it. sometimes for funsies um but like. like that I get a little more control. over obviously because uh we we're the. production company that supplies all. this stuff too so um and that's another. thing that I love to do is actually just. even if it's not for me I've I've done. Dylan francis's rigs a few times other. there are probably DJs out there that. hate my ass cuz I'm such a prick. or or just I just not into what they're.

into but I probably designed their stage. and rented them product so I but that's. cool that's just business they don't. need to know it's Deb Mouse's company so. I won't tell you the name but I do own a. large production company Chicago where. we Supply a lot of LED products stage. design lights all that for big. festivals and solo acts and stuff like. that we ran our out to like mly. crew the Dolphins the um.

oh man all kind dolls we did them. recently no yeah it's everywhere. yeah yeah because actually how it. started was I actually ended up. realizing it was cheaper to buy some of. the stage backline that we were using on. like my first couple of Tours than it. was to rent from V or prg or any those. other companies so I just kept. accumulating all this really like good. staging equipment and then when the tour. was over we're.

like wow we should start a company and. rent this out like they do and so. that's what we do so now I've got I. think we have over 900 LED. panels. wow 600 fix. easily uh trust backline we got a whole. staff of 12 people that work in that. warehouse that shall not be named and uh. yeah they just design stages and build. stuff and we Supply it for my shows. whenever I need it and um anyone else.

who who needs a quite the businessman. and innovator yeah well that was just. kind of common sense cuz just we didn't. know what to do with all this. product we were slapping around. and storing right well there's a lot of. DJs out there. I had it that's why I'm at peace I don't. know if it's that common common sense. you're talking about what I've given you. props there's a lot of other DJs out. there who aren't doing this you did it. well but you know they might not need to.

you know like I'm not everyone seems to. think I have this like huge Grudge with. like you know other like pop DJs that go. in and do a thing you know what I mean. but I mean honestly if your head is in. the game that you just want to go in. make a lot of money get the. out. good job I mean it's not for me that's. I'm I'm in it like just cuz I like the. challenges and I like developing other. stuff not just like I like the challenge. of being dead mouse and I want to be. dead mouse I'm totally like at peace. with this being like my Sunset years.

like I'm 40 to you know like. that's not far off from 50. and you think I'm going to be wearing. mouth head at 50 you. know like hanging on to the dream you. don't know I'm probably I I'll be in the. space but I just you know I won't be be. as mousy you're evolving yeah I'll just. I'll be Aigner I'll whatever I'll go. like I'll go mayard make wine I don't. know his Wine's pretty. [Laughter]. good he's serious about his wine.

do you uh do you believe a. manifestation by chance no I mean I I. don't I don't overthink like that. yeah I can't get my head around it like. the like the secret like I'm just. going to secret into my life I. don't. know I I don't know I'm not I'm not as. Whimsical and faithful to things I don't. get you know what I mean like like I I. cannot I cannot wrap my head around.

religion yeah you know just cuz numbers. don't work for me there really you know. what I mean it's it has nothing to do. with like how that affects social. political stuff which it does. unfortunately but just like if you. stripped all that away too there. another reason to hate it or. dislike it or not be a part of it um. even just like if it was holistically. like benign to everything else that it. affected I still wouldn't buy into it do. you do you believe in higher power no no. no what do you think happens when you.

die well I want to say nothing but then. then that brings in the argument of oh. so nothing is the great Creator and. where do you go when you die and you go. well nothing oh so you're reunited with. your creator yeah you your. caveat but you know what I mean it's. just it's a it's a parado talk it's what. do I what do I hope I I'll I'll tell you. what I hope doesn't happen Okay. I I I hope I don't go to heaven and I. have to stand in front of some. dude and get psychoanalyzed. before I'm allowed in or not I hope that.

doesn't happen because I'm gonna. that up um I hope that I don't go into a. a dream state and have a dream cuz my. dreams are up you know and I wake. up thinking like I wake up from. nightmares like all the time going you. know what I mean I God I hope that's not. what it's like when you die cuz that was. it was weird you know what I mean I. don't really have great dreams I I I. can't remember the last good dream I've. had um so all my dreams are really like.

weird not like weird but. like sometimes I dream that like I've. committed some god- awful like crime. like I killed someone or something and. I'm I'm running away from everything I. don't know what that means and please. I'm not leaving it open for. interpretation so um I always have a. dream that like I'm I'm being persecuted. for something and I'm on the run or I'm. not and then I'm like I'm eating my. neighbor you know what I mean like it's.

just weird dreams you know what I. mean so like I hope that doesn't happen. I never know where to hide the body. actually I do know where I know exactly. where I'm hiding my body but uh but in. the dream I never know where to hide the. body becomes this big oh I don't even. deal with body I just you don't you just. you're just like it I'm out I'm. always do you ever have the dream where. your buddy comes up to you who killed. somebody and then you get involved. hiding the body no no I don't think I've. ever had a body man I have that dream.

all the. time really yeah then I help him hide it. then I'm like. now we're all in deep yeah I. never get caught though so that's good. me neither always but it's just the. paranoia the feeling of oh god what have. I done have I done yeah that that that's. the unsettling part and then I I wake up. thinking why do I dream this oh you know. why you know why I dream this cuz. there's a channel in America. that I'm like absolutely obsessed with. called a what home life Network and all.

they play is Forensic. Files like non-stop HLN Forensic Files. uh Texas here yeah the Four Seasons. everywhere right just Forensic Files on. repeat and I I just I watch it all the. that's exactly why I watch. I can't even believe I'm about to say. this do you ever do youever yeah no. no no it's it is the dumb as do you. ever watch this show love is. blind no oh my God you got to watch this.

no I can't I can't I watch reality. things it's. it's it's fascinating well you know they. cast. like oh i' love they should make a show. of them casting these people what they. should make a show of them casting these. people absolutely. it dude American TV is just weird well I. don't really watch a lot of TV I watch I. watch movies and documentaries yeah I. don't really I don't watch honestly I. don't even watch that much TV cuz like.

if I'm really that bored I'll just go. like play a video game or do something. productive like like work on some. problem with code or something well. let's talk about last night you were. bringing up some really interesting. stuff with the company. NVIDIA yeah well Nvidia is cool like I. mean okay like this is not Financial. advice I am not a professional.

investor and uh what do they call that. when I say a financial adviser yeah I am. not a financial advisor this is not. Financial advice but man what a great. company invest in in today's age because. I love well like not just cuz they're a. great company but I mean I I'm into it. like I honestly I will not put money. behind or or brand or any of my time. even into something I wasn't even do.

right so it only made sense oh these. guys make gpus and they they do really. great things with like you know. Computing and all this stuff too and I'm. like well on my alley so when it. came time basically I had like a little. bit of chunk of money came in one day. and it was like oh wow you need uh an. accounting like like an accountant and. you know someone to look after your. or like a company needs to do this. because it's now it's wealth management. it's not like a Family Savings Bond you. know like we'll make that happen and.

then it came down to the sit down say. hey you need to like you should probably. invest some of this money I'm like well. sure okay what do you thinking and. they're like well I don't know what do. you think what do you like and I was. like oh I like this this and I was like. okay cool so I go and I I put my. into like Tech you know what I mean not. just Nvidia but just you know like Tech. like Tech that I I back you know what I. mean and and sometimes it's hit or miss. you know like but with Nvidia it's been. pretty cool um but then I got.

thinking. like wow what a great company they make. gpus how are they worth like all these. like nearly a trillion dollars if. they're only selling like these GPU. units and stuff like that and then you. think okay well I mean gpus are. everywhere uh they have the most patents. on gpus so I'm just trying to Quick math. in my head like. okay no it can't just be game cards like. graphics cards for computers.

so maybe they doing graphic cards for. other consoles like uh PlayStations and. stuff like that that would be a big deal. no they're not Intel's doing it okay uh. Nintendo switch all right okay there's. that and you know I'm just like I like. yeah something ain't adding up and then. I I I read this article uh way back when. where there was this Israeli chip. manufacturer called melanox like. basically wanting to sell the farm and.

and melanox I believe made chips for. like three three or four different chip. manufacturing companies that had the the. rights to go in there and have that. sanctioned and made their chips. and then sent back to wherever the. they got to get sent I'm like huh that's. really weird oh I guess that makes sense. because it's a pretty specialized. Factory you can't just spring up. a chip plant somewhere like overnight. and for cheap or whatever you know what. I mean and just all the that goes. into chip manufacturing that's got to be. insane so a lot of these companies were.

just kind of using this one manufacturer. and then I guess Nvidia had this great. idea it's like let's buy them I'm like. holy that's a big boy move I mean. they just spent like4 billion dollars on. a new office in Santa Clara like. why not buy the whole buy the cow you. know what I mean why buy the milk. basically was I think the thing with. them and I was like wow that's cool and. then uh now I'm talking to you nutbags. and all you military guys over the last. like little bit I've just for whatever. been like I don't mean that. disrespectfully you know you're a little.

crazy um you have to be so uh like for. whatever reason I just like kind of poke. into you know what's going on with you. know these things and stuff like that. just not not like an investigatory level. just out of just sheer curiosity just. cuz I'm a curious person and then I I I. start becoming wise to the ways of. how military contracts are obtained. because uh there was a company that I.

used to like use their product lemur and. they made uh touchscreen control. surfaces for musicians and I thought. this was before iPads and and we were. they were like the coolest. things ever and I was like wow you know. you can like touch the screen and move. these faders and you can you can design. your faders all you want this is before. iPads so this is how mind-blowing it was. us okay I know every kid with a phone. right now is. like um so we were so I went I bought. two of them one for me and Steve and we.

performed on them for a minute and then. da Punk actually used them for a minute. too and all that stuff and then then the. iPad came out and that just like kick. those to the curb cuz the iPad was like. actually cheaper these things were like. four grand for like a p thing you. know and it was just it was nowhere's. near as good as an iPad but then when. the iPad came out me and dudo were like. first in line you know like at the Apple. Store like cuz we wanted to make a. touchscreen controller stuff and we did. and it was like so much better.

and then and I remember like talking. about it some years later I remember. lemur and he was like yeah like man. that sucks for them they like apple this. just like the iPad just put them out of. business and they like yeah I think. they're in avionics now I was like. that's that's an interesting pivot well. good for them at least they were able to. do whatever but then they got. they got some military contract and I'm. thinking like man I wonder how that. works out like how do you do that like. basically and then you know reading and. all this stuff is like basically the. idea of taking like a $40 screw and.

turning it into a $200 screw like just. magically by by being blessed by this y. guy who just showed up at some weird. trade show and said hey man we like what. you do we'll take your entire stock you. know at at at a factor of 120% like done. you know cool the public sector you. know like I'm going to make this stuff. for the military and I thought wow. that's cool I wish they could militarize. like music cuz that would help me um I.

mean there is some you could play. that would definitely piss off a lot of. people but I mean I think it is just I. mean to have a company like that sending. you stuff to just test out I mean that. is that's pretty cool man yeah but but. that's kind of where I'm going with this. is that I was like man so it's like. military contracts are are really. interesting you know what I mean because. it's just like it's got to be like like.

if you if you wanted to make a product. that you know you wanted like a military. the US military whatever to scoop up. yeah I guess you'd have to kind of. approach it the same way I'd approach. trying to get signed by a major label. right so a lot of it's handshaking and. and work in the room and having. a solid product and all that stuff too. that you can kind of at least convince. somebody is better than what they're. using you know what I mean so I'm like. man that's really interesting. you know now um I I kind of Applied that.

mindset and came home with this batshit. like photos on the wall with the. red string theory that Nvidia. bought melanox so they can make. chips to sell it to the military. from. Israel I I don't know that's a hot. take Joel said in the comments. might not be too far off I don't know I. didn't even know I didn't even know. there were making chips in Israel I. thought everything was T no no melanox. is in Israel it's in Tel Aviv I think.

it's weird and I'm just saying. like well there you go there's the path. of leas resistance of getting technology. out of United States to another country. do it in another country right I mean I. don't know like again there's there's so. many people watching this video going. like have you who's this idiot DJ you. got on your show dude have you have you. heard about these these like ships that. are processing centers that are floating. out in the middle of the international. waters yes doing what I don't know.

Computing you would know more about. boxless uh gloveless boxing fights I. guess it was like half a billion. dollar like chip Enterprises out there. it's taxfree. and if you don't like your coworker you. can just throw him over the side. that's a good point I'm just saying that. is a good point Stephen I'm going to. need those TPS. it goolag but that would be that is. weird yeah yeah just I think it just.

came out uh yesterday today's what. November 13th you know I think it just. came out it just hit the the news. yesterday what are they doing like or. it's just we don't know what they're. doing but somebody's doing something on. a about it's well it's I I guess it's. processing centers for what processing. tax returns maybe could be hell of I. know could be that boring but I don't. know I just find it interesting that. that Nidia is putting boats out there.

with half a billion dollar chips and. processid is doing this you're saying. that's what it's Oh see now that makes. sense I thought you just said somebody. I'm like no what are they doing oh well. maybe maybe maybe that's just a maybe. they just found a way to cut 2%. of margins off of manufacturing costs by. not paying some kind of crazy. tax or something I don't know. right I don't know so many questions man. but I'll tell you what if I'm ever in uh.

ahead of um you know a trillion dollar. company I'll keep you in the no you give. me give me some why we're doing it cuz I. don't even think I don't even think the. people that really like kind of like. control the board or whatever and know. have the sh I think a company gets so. big sometimes that it's just like it. becomes a a digitally autonomous. organization a Dao which is actually a. thing which is kind of cool um but yeah. that's what happens you know it's like.

it's like America you know kind of said. one day hey these are the rules and. they're unchangeable and unbendable like. your Constitution or or whatever you. know what I mean but like is it really. just like a huge mental exercise to say. Hey what if we just scratch that. and just wrote a new one you know what I. mean like like mentally not a big deal. you know what I mean let's get some. people together and get them on an. island and and have them do.

whatever they did again you know like or. or whatever I don't know how the process. should work and I'm not an. expert in these political matters but. I'm just saying why are we so like. clinging on to like well no it say. it's always been like that and always. will be like that but will it you know. what I mean so it's like why don't we. just some people can't think outside the. box I don't know but and then there's. people that once again I am just a. vessel yeah but well Joel do you have.

any other companies that you're working. on any other uh future things outside of. music not really I don't uh just music. Tac I'm I'm like kind of just working on. positioning myself so that I can. develop more projects that involve more. people in the sense that like like uh I. would love to run a software company. making what I don't know like a prev.

visualization software or a game Studio. or something like that but the only way. I can do that at this rate is kind of. just like sunsetting off the step Mouse. stuff you know what I mean not not. killing it off not retiring I can't. retire that's just I'm it's too far gone. there's no such thing I've heard. DJs cry about this I'm retiring. dude and doing what exactly you can go. work at Hot Topic like what the you. know cuz you're going to run out of that.

money real quick you know what I. mean at the rate you're spending. it or whatever you didn't put it in. anything you know you're going to be. unretired you're going to have your your. welcome back cter tour. in about 3 years Max you know what I. mean and they have you know what I mean. so it's like get that notion out of your. head I'm not retiring but I will slow. down the shows a little bit you know and. spend a lot more time at home and when. that happens then I'll be able to get my. like my a teams together and and I'll. have some liquidity to be able to funnel.

into this and just say look let's take. another chance let's let's try. reading this software and see what it. does yeah H yeah man well that's the. future we're kind of wrapping it up now. now before we do wrap it up who are. three people that you'd like to see on. this show on this show on this show oh. my god um. well I think Tommy would be.

really.

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