Dale Stark - A-10 Warthog: One of the Most Feared Aircraft in History | SRS #142

[Music]. Dale Stark welcome to the show man. thanks for having me it's. a man I've been watching your Tri your. Twitter for or I guess X now for quite a. while and I love your page like this the. wittiness and the comments and just what. you post is awesome and uh on top of. that it's an honor to have you here uh.

I've been wanting a pilot for a long. time and uh as I've been watching you. I've just been like man I think I would. really get along with that guy so uh I'm. just really stoked you're my first Air. Force airplane pilot uh that I've had in. here and uh hope hope you're the first. of many absolutely thanks for having me. you're welcome you're welcome but um. everybody starts off with an intro. so I'm going to give your intro here.

real real. quick Dale Stark a retired United States. Air Force A10 pilot prior enlisted c17. crew chief you have received four air. medals 13 aerial achievement medals and. four meritorious service medals you made. it to Lieutenant Colonel and squadron. commander during your time in the. military you flew combat missions during. multiple deployments to Afghanistan in. 2006. 2010 2 14 with 3,000 total flight hours.

after serving nearly 22 years with the. military you finish your service to the. country instructing for the Air Force in. Tucson Arizona since retiring you've. become a Rancher and devote your time. and energy into supplying the community. with wholesome locally sourced beef. you're a husband a father of two. beautiful girls and a. Christian I'm missing anything that's.

pretty much it I got a feeling I'm. missing a lot here but uh we'll get into. that stuff here in a little bit. but man I love your I love your farm do. you call it a farm or a ranch you know. it's kind of uh the way I've generally. heard it is that if you're doing primary. um like plants it's Farm if you're. raising livestock it's a ranch uh but. it's not like some massive Yellow Stone.

operation you know it's a it's a single. man deal uh 58 Acres total and then like. you said primarily uh raisin Angus. grass-fed grass finish beef so man uh. Farm Ranch whatever you know I kind of. use both terms sometimes Homestead you. know what whatever uh works for you so. did you grow up doing that or is this. like steep learning curve for you um I. grew up around ranches a lot my dad was. like a horse trainer.

um a. horseshoer a saddle maker so you know in. the ranching industry and then um I live. not too far from a dairy farm one of my. best friends was you know Born and. Raised on this dairy farm and I would. help them you know bucking hey in the. summer so I've been around it a lot as a. kid really well we're I want to get into. your uh Ranch operation uh more towards. the end and and kind of what led you. into that but um but first let's get.

into the interview. so before we get started two in the. weeds here everybody gets a. gift I don't know if you're familiar. with that oh you have to open it right. now came here for the gummy bears right. that's. hey oh yeah there you go the packaging's. killer too thank you so yeah made here. in the. USA some people give me about that. cuz I've I've turned into a little bit. of a health but uh you know there are no.

healthy gummy bears so you know dude. sometimes you need gummy bear amazing. they're amazing but uh and they're legal. in all 50 states not that that matters. in Oregon. but but uh but hey if you go anywhere. else those are legal but um yeah so. let's dive into we're going to do a full. life story here so I want to go through. your childhood uh it sounds like you had.

a traumatic experience at some point. there and uh so I'd like to talk about. that and then we'll move into your. military career and uh maybe some about. the country and what you're doing. nowadays and and we'll wrap it up there. but starting off where'd you grow up so. uh I was born in a small town on the. Oregon coast so it's kind of a mainly a. Timber town and also lots of fishing um. those are kind of the main industries.

but uh moved around a lot so I think we. lived in 18 houses by the time I was 18. years old so you know lived in Idaho. Washington Oregon obviously uh lived in. Southern California for a while so um. just kind. of you know lots of moving around so my. dad you know why did you move so much do. you know you know it was the way I saw. it at the time maybe a little bit of a.

different era but. um you know my dad would take a job. where the job was and we would move so. whether it be seasonal work um you know. he did some logging like one of my first. memories is uh we were basically camped. out all summer just outside of a logging. camp near Cascade Idaho so uh you know. living in a basically like an army tent. uh fishing hunting trapping you guys.

were living in an army tent yes how many. brothers and sisters did you have uh one. brother older than me so just yeah whole. summer in the woods cuz he had a login. job out there and then when that you. know that job would come to an end or. school would start then he'd find. another job so you know it's just there. wasn't like all these programs and this. and that it was you you went where you. could get a job at that time and that's. what we did so you know and then there. was other things for kind of like saving.

money so it' be like hey you can live in. this house for 6 months if you guys fix. it up or something like that so uh just. yeah just lots lots of moves so did you. like living in that tent I look back on. it now is the best time of my life. really yeah I mean we're just outside in. the woods in Idaho for an entire summer. like just like I didn't even understand. until I was in the Air Force that people.

didn't just have access to like. thousands of Acres of forest out their. backyard it was just like our Birthright. living in the west you know yeah and. then you know later I'm in Texas done. with basic training and tech school want. to go to the woods and you're like there. are no there's no it's all private land. you got to know somebody to go hunt or. whatever it may be um is it like that. everywhere out west uh I mean I can't. speak to everywhere but there's just. there's tons of uh like National Forest.

State Forest and and even the um lands. that the timber companies own will allow. you access so man me and my wife just. went to Park City Utah we've been going. out west for the past couple years and. minus California I love I love it out. West it seems. like I don't know man it just like like. you're saying like you have to know if. you want to go hunt or you want to be. out in the woods you either have to own. the property or know somebody that owns.

some property and out there just it. seems like the. conservation is a lot like they really. took it seriously out there but on the. east coast and kind of mid uh Midwest. they they didn't and the outdoors just. seem so much more accessible out there. it really is and I don't really know all. the the history as to how that happened. it's it's a big place you know and. there's a lot of.

um a lot of terrain that's probably not. necessarily uh ideal for development and. so um yeah it's just like I was saying. it's just it's picture just having. unlimited access to seemed like Infinity. you know you could you could go anywhere. do anything come home at dark kind of. thing so I you know looking back I look. at it as a a privilege I think it it. makes you resilient had had a real close. family so you know I had my brother. wherever we would go so it it was fine.

you know was your mom in the picture y. my mom awesome just it's funny like I. can't imagine people doing what we did. now hey babe we're moving to the woods. for the summer like how's that going to. go over yeah but yeah she's she's just a. good sport you know just like very. faithful Christian always knew that uh. God would provide and he always did so. it was it was just a I looked at it as a.

big adventure when I was a kid yeah what. what kind of I mean what kind what would. you do out in the woods what were you. and your brother into uh we just build. survival forts like my dad would let us. go like sleep in these forts we had. built overnight and stuff so uh we're. like okay we're GNA you know we love. Rambo like that whole kind of GI Joe. that whole genre yeah so yeah we just. we'd go build forts go fishing uh make. little snares for rabbits and stuff like.

just just stuff kids do you know man. that's cool that's cool I I was talking. to I think it was I can't remember who. it was the conversation with but I read. I didn't read we we were having the. conversation on the show and he was. saying that kids that grow up around in. and around. nature have I can't remember the. percentage but when it comes to like all. these sicknesses and that are going. around ADHD all all these kind of autism.

all these things it sounds like the kids. that grow up in nature that have. experience out in the woods are a lot. healthier when it comes to mental health. versus kids in the city have you heard. anything about that I've I've read. things and it it makes sense to me. anyway it seems like more in line with. how we have lived through most of human. history mhm so yeah you take a take a.

boy and make him sit in the classroom. and watch screens all day or whatever it. may be it's you're I think you're kind. of asking for trouble yeah yeah well so. you went uh you wound up in was it. California yeah so um when uh I think it. was sixth grade um my dad um got a. horseshoeing job so that was kind of his. main profession so um he you know. working on show horses race horses he.

was really good at it so um he got on at. this place down in Southern California. which is where uh he grew up and um we. went out there for I think it was four. years so kind of like basically sixth. grade to the start of high school. yeah so yeah and that was interesting. cuz we're mainly in like rural areas up. to that point and now we're living like. near San.

Diego how'd that go yeah it was I mean. it was a good experience in a lot of. ways like I became um so something that. I tend to do and it started as a young. age is just get obsessed with one thing. and so I fell in love with skateboarding. at that time frame so uh I started that. in Oregon a little bit and then we moved. to California and it just took off so.

I'm. like you know you heard like Tony Hawk. oh yeah all those guys the Bones Brigade. so I'm like I'm watching those videos. I'm going to the skate parks every day. after school all summer long just you. know sleeping with my skateboard in my. bed just became completely obsessed with. with that sport at that time and so it. you know it was cool like I said growing. up in these these kind of rues. communities which which I loved and what.

I prefer now obviously uh but then now. I'm you know sixth grade then Junior. High and living outside of like. Hollywood and skateboarding and and I. tried to take it to a pretty high level. for my uh age at that time like um I. think it's kind of funny looking back. now but I was like a a state champion. for sponsored 14 and under damn no. I was a California state champion so. skating with all the biggest Pros like I.

went out to Tony Hawk like skate Ranch. and Fall Brook and all these like older. Pros are kind of taking me under their. wing and all these companies are just. like throwing me all this free stuff. like uh Billabong I don't know if you've. seen that they're like a more of a surf. company oh I know who that is yeah so. we're yeah so I'm like I'm this kid who. grew up in the country and then now I'm. uh skateboarding in San Diego and. they're just like come to our our. Factory they' give me like big trash. bags and just say go fill them up with.

whatever you want clothing wise are you. serious and like yeah and I mean this is. like this is not anything that I have. ever experienced yeah and it's for them. it's marketing it's like you get these. kids that are good you get Pros you get. them to wear your stuff and uh and then. it makes their you know I understand it. now but at the time I just mind was. blown you know yeah so you do not strike. me as a skateboarder at all I know.

that's crazy yeah it was it was fun you. know just feel like you can fly it was. in the time of like vert skating and. ramps and uh yeah it was just it was a. blast was your brother into that too at. all or he was into it a little bit and. then he was into surfing and stuff but. um he didn't become nearly as like uh. into it as I was gotcha gotcha but you. were into surfing too correct yeah yep. living there in Southern California it's.

kind of go hand inand so a lot of days. at the beach and at the skate park did. you get as good at surfing as you did at. um I got pretty good but I never I my. main kind of love at that time was. skateboarding and I never uh I I always. love surfing I got into it a lot more in. my later teenage years like when we. moved back to Oregon but um uh I was. better at skateboarding I just put in. way more hours at.

it so if I read correctly you had uh. kind of a traumatic experience in your. skateboarding career yeah so like it's. kind of my first experience with what. you kind of think of as like. Hollywood like boy just yeah so there. just so many uh so many creeps around. this kind of War. right so uh I got I got like picked up.

to do a Levi's commercial so I did are. you. serious so you're a model too yeah this. is incredible yeah all these new. Revelations I never never thought about. it like that but uh so yeah I'm like. going out to LA doing um like Levis. jeans commercials you know skateboarding. you know I'm just skating and there wait. are did these like were these on TV yeah. we can look these commercials up I. bought my first uh brownie 243 lever.

action rifle with residuals from a. Levi's commercial oh man I'll bet. there's not too many people in Hollywood. buying those. anymore probably not yeah yeah no. so we can actually I'm going to find. this commercial and put it in here oh. that'd be hilarious my mom has it I. don't know if like I mean this is like. early '90s we'll find it yeah it's out. there we'll find it. it's got to be somewhere but uh yeah um.

so then the first kind of like weird. really weird thing that happened uh in. this kind of Southern California. Hollywood skateboard scene is um there's. this Pro Nam uh Mark Gator regelski I. don't know if that name rings a bell so. he's this this huge Pro Skater at the. time he was probably like very. equivalent to say like Aon Hawk Mike.

McGill Bones Brigade guys like he was uh. he was like a hero of mine like I'm. watching him on videos you know he's he. was kind of the top of the food chain. back then so I'm you know I'm like 12 13. 14 spending all my time at these skate. parks I'm a young amateur he's a pro so. they you know they take young guys under. their their wing right so they're like. um so I'm skating with all these these. guys and uh one day um I get home I.

think it was from school my parents. bring me in they're like uh you need to. know something like sit down cuz we know. you really look up to this guy but uh he. just turned himself in for. murder so this guy today like 2024 is. still serving out his sentence in. California for uh murdering this woman. so there's um there have been like.

documentaries on this so there's a lot. of information out there on it because. it was it was a big deal especially in. that area at that time but um the short. of it was that he was like dating this. girl and then she kind of uh blew him. off or something and then he went out. with her friend and for whatever reason. just like flipped out on her and like. the story is murdered her with a bike. lock and then stuffed her in a surfboard.

bag and drove her out to the desert and. like buried her in a shallow grave out. there holy yeah so I'm like you. know 13 14 I forget the exact age but. I'm I'm young and I'm trying to like uh. process this information of what uh like. this guy I looked up to is clearly. psychotic uh but yeah so then then it's. it was just it kind of the first glimpse.

into. like I don't know I mean that was pretty. extreme but just like the darkness of. some of that uh some of that world down. there yeah started started to feel that. started to get get weird you know what I. mean oh yeah any sexual type trauma well. kind of like um similarly like around. that time there was this this um really.

another weird situation so this is this. kind of like I'd say just a window into. what the not necessarily skateboarding. but just kind of that that Hollywood La. kind of world was like um and I've like. I have a really hard time even talking. about like what happened here but I. think a lot of lot of guys and and stuff. have gone through this and they don't. want to talk about it. well Dale uh I'm not going to pressure.

you to talk about it and the reason I. ask. is there's so. many there are so many kids that go. through this you know and and I. mean it's coming out on I mean they're. making movies about it now you know. sound of freedom and and and it's start. I don't know if it's hitting mainstream. media but I mean we got the Puff Daddy. thing you got. stuff you've got and and all it's people.

are kind of waking up to this there's a. shocking amount of pedophiles out there. it's insane and and and in and even in. my own personal. experiences with interviewing people I. fortunately I never had to go through. anything like that but I I can't believe. like you know I we do the childhood. stuff like I've always done like kind of. the life story you know and then we hit.

this point where one one person I can't. remember who the first one that brought. it up was it may have been Prime hall. and then I started realizing like holy. man like 50% of my guest list has. been sexually. traumatized in their childhood and and. so the reason I bring it up is yeah. because there's so many kids out there. that are going through this kind of. stuff and they don't I think when. somebody that I'm.

interviewing talks about their. experience and how they overcame it and. and if we do go into it I'll ask you you. know what advice do you have for kids. that are doing that are going through. that kind of situation they don't know. where to turn and. so that's why I'm asking yeah I think. it's in important and that's kind of why. I brought it up in the you know. previously is something I wanted to talk. about uh for those kids who are have. gone through something like this or even.

adults but what happened in my case was. um there was this judge so he was kind. of well-respected. like nobody um thought of him as a. threat anything like that and there was. one contest and he said hey I'll I'll. pick you up and a skateboarding judge. yeah so a litigation yeah exactly I. apologize so he was a judge for these. skateboarding competitions for. Cal California amateur skateboard league.

so he was an older gentleman and um not. a gentleman he was a a piece of but. uh anyhow so he talked to my parents and. there was there are contests every. weekend you know and usually my mom. would take me and or my dad or both of. them and uh for this particular contest. he's like he called he's like oh yeah if. um you want me to take him I can and I'm. going to take these other kids as well. and then you guys can just come up the.

next day cuz usually there's like a. practice say on like a Friday. competition on Saturday and then you go. home so usually stay one night if it's. not local so this guy picks me up and. um I'm again a same similar age to the. with this other situation so I forget. exactly but around 13 14 something like. that so he picks me up and then. tells me oh we're not picking up the.

other kids which is my first kind of red. flag I'm going this is kind of weird. he's like oh yeah their parents decided. they're picking them up so we're just. going to go so and you knew you knew. right then something was up it kind of. like got my hackles up I'm like that's. weird you know yeah and I like. thankfully the way I was raised I was. this could have been a lot worse as. you'll find because I was pretty strong. willed um I wrestled when I was young I.

felt uh physically capable even though I. was you know 13. uh but you know I'm sitting here now by. myself with this grown adult uh and. we're going to California so or going I. think somewhere up near La from San. Diego so we go to the hotel or go get. something to eat go to the hotel and. then he just starts drinking so he's. drinking like hard alcohol and um and. he's trying to get me to drink like hey.

like just take a shot and he's trying to. he's kind of like ridiculing me like um. like oh if you like what are you a a. wuss like you could have you could have. a drink it's no big deal you know what I. mean so and I'm and I'm like no I'm I'm. just kind of like staying away from this. guy so as the night progresses he um. puts on porn so there's two beds. in this in this room so he's on the bed.

he's drunk as can be and he puts on a. porno and then um he literally just. whips it out and starts like pleasuring. himself and uh I basically at that time. and he's and he's trying to tell me to. come over come over there holy yeah. so like this literally unfolded in front. of me at 13 years old and I'm going like. what you know I had a good family like. yeah they they would have never uh.

expected anything like this I don't. think it everyone crossed their mind. back then you know um in fact I didn't. even tell my parents or probably anyone. until I was like 40 years old because I. just put it put it behind me you know. because my dad probably would have. killed this guy and I'm not exaggerating. that's what he would have done uh. anyhow so I I ran into the bathroom I. slammed the door shut I locked it and he.

starts trying to trying to get into the. room like or get to the bathroom so he's. oh come out here and this and so I just. I start screaming at him like get the. hell away from me get out of here I'm. screaming bloody murder like at this. point and so he like backs off because. he's afraid probably someone's going to. hear me uh and then I just um spent the. spent the night in the bathroom with the. door locked wake up the next morning um.

go to the contest and uh see my parents. and that was basically the end of it so. it wasn't. um it wasn't like this uh it could have. been a lot worse is what I'm trying to. say um but it was uh just all these. things in this time are kind of kind of. happening and it's just it started. feeling like a really kind of a dark. place a dark.

environment and uh I think my parents. were sensing that as well and started. thinking about get back to Oregon at. that. time holy I mean how do. you how do you keep that in. for know what's weird about it is I. remember at the time. thinking I don't want to like I'm G to. get in trouble. if I talk about this because of um like.

the porn was on you know what I mean so. I'm going like oh like I shouldn't watch. I like it's embarrassing and it's you. know and you're thinking like um that. you are at fault somehow I remember. thinking like I'm going to get in. trouble if I if I talk about this for uh. whatever it is I was in you know. whatever it is that I did to be a part. of this um you know cuz like I say he.

put on a porn on that trip he had like. porno magazines out and stuff so I think. that these uh pedophiles do things to. where a child feels. guilty for being even a part of it and. then they use that against you so it's. like oh well if you if you say anything. you're going to get in trouble it's kind. of the the feeling I had holy did.

you have to did you have any type of. communication or relationship with that. person afterwards I mean I would see him. so the people I did tell was other kids. like the other skaters and stuff and I. basically just said hey stay away from. that guy cuz he's a creep like and. they're like yeah like we've had similar. experiences so but nobody told their. parents you know everybody just felt.

like uh I don't know just didn't want to. it's like the child's mind doesn't want. to create all you're kind of like I. don't want to have all these problems we. got enough problems you know yeah so. yeah so that it was like again it could. have been a lot worse but it is it's. something that makes an impact on a a. young person's mind at that age what. what kept it in until you're. 40 I just I just buried it you know what. I mean like I was just kind of like that.

was weird I felt like um since I avoided. this guy actually like putting his hands. on me I felt like nothing happened you. know um but then you know as you get. older you're like no that did have an. impact in how you know your ability to. trust people the way you know it kind. of I'd say it kind of wises you up to. the ways of the world at a young age and. so after that point I acted very.

differently towards people than I did. before I would say damn so just like I. don't want to I don't want to go there. you know nothing happened to me I'm just. going to bury that and move. on let me rephrase that question what. what brought it out at age. 40 I think well we can get into it but I. just. think when you start kind of you know. you get a little bit older and you start. reflecting on your life the things. you've done the things that have.

happened to you and then you just you. just want to tell the truth you don't. want to have any secrets you know and so. you're just like wow that's you have. kids too and you're just like that's. crazy that happened to me like like what. a what a piece of you know I can't. believe that there are people like that. in this world that would pray on kids. and uh and then you have your own kids. and you're going. okay like I'm not trusting anybody like.

if there's an overnight trip I'm going. like uh I trust my family and that's the. extent of it when it comes to um. overnight trips with my my kids so that. was do you think this all stemmed. from that. area I I don't know man that's a dark. place man I I'm not going to say I have. a similar experience but I guess it's a. along the same lines I was a lot older.

but I remember. uh it was when I was in buds actually. but I mean when I was in buds I was like. 18 and uh there was a group of us that. went golfing at. uh Admiral I feel like it was Admiral. Baker Golf Course or something up by San. Diego are you familiar with it um not. particularly now well anyways we had. golfed and we got there was like three. or four of. us we got paired with this this older.

guy who claimed he was an. admiral and we told him we were Bud. students and all the people that I ran. with were the same age we were under. drinking back then and uh and. um so we were drinking on the course. shooting golf with this guy seemed. pretty cool invited us back to. his. Penthouse somewhere in I think it was. like La Hoya or something and and went. in there and he kept kind of the same.

deal he kept shoving booze on us and. um somebody found one of uh one of the. my buddies had found this photo album. and he pulled out the photo album and. every every picture in the album. was like older teenagers men that were. passed out drunk naked in his apartment.

and so. we've I mean I wouldn't really say it. traumatized me by any means but it was. like uh let's get the out of here. right now just a glimpse into what some. of these people are like it was like oh. I hope it nobody got drugged but. um but anyways I mean you know what what. advice do you have for having been. through something like that what advice. you have for kids I would say no matter.

what happened like even if you feel like. you escaped the danger you know or. something even worse happened just talk. to somebody about it um just get it off. your chest don't hold it in there's no. reason to you'll just get support and. hopefully prevent this from happening to. someone else yeah yeah I'm curious too I. mean this just keeps it just continues. the problem seems to continue continue. to get worse I mean you hear about the.

the maps right now we're we're calling. pedophiles well I'm not but some people. are for this type. of sexual orientation they call it right. and they're calling them Maps minor. attracted persons they're normalizing. pedophilia and you know guess where it's. coming from oh big surprise the West. Coast but uh I mean I think about this.

as a father of you know I got a 2 and a. half-year-old and a seven-month-old. and the problem is not getting better. it's getting worse and your daughter is. a little bit older but I mean what how. do you what do you tell them and what do. you teach them do you add do you talk. about this kind of stuff we haven't had. a have any of these straightforward. talks yet but um you know and I don't. want them I want them to have an. innocent childhood yeah so um right now.

I feel like I'm the protector as is. their mother you know so um avoiding. sleepovers I don't think they're. necessarily uh it's probably fine but. you look at where these kind of things. happen to people and and a lot of times. it's people they at least suspect but. there stuff like sleepovers so I'm just. avoiding those types of things yeah and. um. yeah I think you're right they're there.

there's no end to the revolution right. like they always have to have some. boundary to push it seems there's no. limiting principle so they're making. basically any form of sick perversion to. be uh. normalized is just hey that's that's. they were born that way so who are you. to say but uh I reject that and I think. um that's where a lot of people would. draw the line and I I really hope so. because uh that could never you know.

it's children if you can't protect. children uh if you're Society doesn't. protect children what what's the point. of what's the point of it right it's. crazy it seems like there's like this. big movement behind it to to like. celebrate pedophilia and it's like where. does this end I just I ask myself. that all the time you know I bring it up. to my I bring it up to my 2 and a. half-year-old you know I don't we don't. have talks about it but I you know.

there's creeps out there this is your. private parts buddy yeah you know what I. mean nobody touches your private parts. mom and dad and that's it and now I mean. we're potty training them and and and uh. you know so we still got diapers and. but we'll take his diaper off and. he'll go he will literally go my weenie. in my butt my private parts mom and dad. only anybody is anybody don't touch him. and it's it's cool man cuz at 2 and A2.

it's it's registering you know what I. mean and I. know he's going to say something if. something happens you know already at. this age like he knows every single time. man that we we change his diaper you. know or put him in the bath I mean he's. saying these are my private parts no. touching and. uh more parents need to be doing that. you know to to plant that seed in there.

I think in my opinion just understanding. that it's a real threat and it's from. the places that you wouldn't expect and. the people you wouldn't expect so yeah. just that open communication with your. kids keeping that Bond so uh if they do. get a bad Vibe about somebody they feel. comfortable telling you about it yeah. what I mean what was your what was your. parent. reaction when you when that got brought.

up they were shocked like they just like. you should have told us. like they just they were in disbelief. almost but not really when they started. thinking about it you know maybe there. were. signs um but in real time it never. crossed their minds. man such a it's dark it is isn't it no. one wants to talk about it cuz it's so. dark and. if especially seems like the worst uh.

somebody got it then they become even. obviously more traumatized and more less. likely to want to talk about it and just. bottle that up man it's. uh it's not getting any better but um. but let's move on let's let's let's move. out of this subject so so did you leave. California yeah so freshman year um like. I said I my with that that situation. with that pro skateboarder Gator they.

didn't know about this uh judge but they. knew I think they could just sense you. know and I was running with some rough. kids at this time like in that era it. was we're basically like feral kids you. know just on in the Streets of San Diego. on our skateboards and surfing and uh. you know a lot of those guys went on to. be professionals and then burn out and. ended up you know sadly somewhere dead. or in jail or whatever you know it's a.

it's a it's a rough scene so are you. getting into trouble I was getting so my. older brother was getting into more. trouble so I think that's where my. parents attention was and so I could fly. under the radar and just we did whatever. we wanted you. [Laughter]. know what kind of trouble were you. getting into drinking or uh yeah I think. that was the first time probably that. you know Drank In just there were man.

there were so many just crazy scenarios. like there's basically like surf gangs. in Southern California like people are. very localized really in their surf. spots so if somebody comes there that's. um not from there and they have bad. etiquette this is again back in the 90s. I don't know what it's like now but. there'd be there' be fist fights you. know a lot of them and and uh just it's. just a wild time you know like it's like. you're not this innocent kid anymore.

you're everybody drinks everybody smokes. weed everybody's trying to do something. in Hollywood like you know is just I. think my parents just generally had a. sense that this is not a good healthy. environment for kids yeah so like let's. get back to our our small town in Oregon. and you know finish out high school out. there makes sense so you move back to. Oregon. what got you interested in the.

military so um I had an uncle uh his. name is Arthur Stark and uh he served. two tours in Vietnam he was a crew chief. on. Hues um he tried to volunteer for a. third but apparently his command he was. crazy and he needed to he needed to stay. home uh and then uh anyhow so he ended. up becoming a warrant officer and and. then a uh shanuk pilot in the Army.

Reserves continued serving his entire. life uh he did 18 months in Iraq at 58. years old one of the most experienced. helicopter pilots in the Army no. when was he in Iraq uh the early like. like the very initial Invasion this war. the GW 03 y holy yeah wow they're. 58 years old what a bad there's a. Vietnam to tour Vietnam vet so he was. just a hero to our family a personal.

hero of mine um and so uh you know and. then like I had mentioned I was kind of. one of those uh dorky kids that wore. camouflage from like basically the time. I could remember up until about until we. moved to. California so I just always been. interested in the. military um but it wasn't something that. was uh. and on in my focus you know so go back.

to Oregon um I start wrestling so now. I'm doing the sport wrestling and I'm. surfing a bunch in Oregon there and uh. I'm not a great student so I've always. hated sitting down paying attention. listening to a teacher just really never. worked for me so they're like oh he's. got you know probably has 80 HD he's. he's got all these issues he doesn't. does will not pay attention you know. yeah terrible student so uh I I barely.

graduated high school um and uh but I I. had some good friends now that I came. back and had some good influences they. were going to school and uh so I was. like man I I want to go to school I. don't want to I was like terrified at. being a loser so I was just going like. you know you start feeling that pressure. build as you're getting older you're. getting closer to gradua in high school. and you're going what what am I going to. do with my life and I'm working like.

lots of menial jobs like you know. Landscaping worked at a movie theater. just like worked at a gas station just. doing these normal jobs and going like. man like on my current. trajectory I like I've got nothing going. for me like this is not going to end. like you know I'm just I start having. like anxiety attacks even like in my. teenage years I'm just sitting there. going like feeling like I'm going to.

have a heart attack sitting there at. like you know midnight at home for no. parent reason just start just start. feeling that pressure um wondering what. I'm going to do with my life but uh. anyhow so I finished up high school and. um I was getting pretty good at. wrestling so I picked up a uh just like. a tuition scholarship at the local. Community College they was starting a. wrestling program so I just I was going. to wrestle at uh this place called swalk.

so Southwestern Oregon Community College. so that's what I did but um my parents. are more of like the old school type. where After High School it was time to. get a job so uh if you want to stay at. home well you're an adult now so you. need to start paying rent so this became. like a point of contention between us. right so I'm I'm going to Community. College um uh I'm wrestling I'm surfing. all the time any money I get like in the.

summer I'm buying like oneway ticket to. Mexico City going on these surf trips to. like you know Porto Escondido and. pasqualis and these just like I'm just. doing my thing thinking I can figure. this out and my parents are going you're. just wasting your time you know what. what are you even doing anyhow so we we. go through that for dang near about at. least a solid year and my grades are.

terrible I'm drinking I'm not wrestling. that great cuz I'm just my life is just. kind of in shambles you know just just. it's like a high school kid that is like. stuck and neutral you know what I mean. like so I'm anyway so I keep trying to. make this happen and it's just not. working and we're button heads and. eventually it's like you know the movies. like they talk about they're like you. got to pay rent you're behind now you're. 3 months behind now I get home and all.

my stuff's on the porch and I figure it. out you know. damn they're like we're you know that is. old school they're like we're not going. to enable you you know and a lot of a. lot of people criticize that technique. now they're just like man you gota you. know and I'm not I'm not kicking my. girls. out they're they're girls but uh you. know my parents knew me well and they. probably knew that I needed uh some.

motivation and so um from that point. forward um I'm trying to do the same. things now so I'm trying to go to school. trying to wrestle and I'm living in the. back of my Ville station wagon at the. beach and you know couch surfing at. friend's houses like surfing uh and then. using the the showers at the beach the. beach Campground stuff like that and. just like not doing good at anything so. getting terrible grades not wrestling.

great and uh really not moving forward. so I had thought about joining the. military like right out of high school. like it had crossed my mind I talked to. the recruiters a little bit um but I. decided against it so then now a year. and a half later I'm I'm basically at. like Rock Bottom you know you you can't. get uh much lower than living in your. car you know I guess you could never. became a drug addict. so had that going for me but you know.

and then so um I almost joined the. Marines like I that was kind of my first. idea I was like I'm going to I'm going. to like you know these guys are badass. right like look at the uniforms how. sharp they are I you know I was just. like okay that could be awesome and uh I. remember talking to my uh Uncle the the. helicopter pilot and um and he. recommended I join the Air Force and.

he's like well um you can get a. technical skill he's like right now. you're living in your car like are you. enjoying. that wouldn't it be nice to like get the. GI Bill have a technical skill um I had. talked to him about becoming a pilot but. there had been nothing in my life that. would suggest that I had the capability. to be a pilot so uh he I remember him. saying though he's like if you decide. you want to be a pilot um like we've.

talked about uh the Air Force is all. about airplanes and he's like yeah the. Marines they have some airplanes but. they're all about infantry you know the. Army um they have helicopters but that's. not the main show you know same with the. Navy so he's like if you want um to have. a skill that can lead to a career. afterwards if you want to even think. about being a pilot your best chances. are going to going to be in that Air. Force so the end of the day talking to.

all the recruiters I decided to uh. enlist as a c17 crew chief and so like I. think I just turned it was like December. of. 99 so it's like 1920 and then uh off I. went to lacklin Air Force Base for basic. training how long did it take you to. fold once you were living in your car. when your parents said get out I think. it was around 6 months you lasted 6. months yeah nice.

nice That's longer than I would have. expected but right on right on so you so. you enlisted yep so I enlisted in the. Air Force and uh went off to basic. training to be a crew chief at that. time well before we get into your. military career let's take a quick. break listen up no matter who wins the. election I'm still buying gold and. silver we're $35 trillion in debt and we.

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today to get 10% off your first month. that's betterhelp. hp.com. SRS all right Dale we're getting into. your military career now so you join the. Air. Force to be a crew chief or not sorry. not a crew chief crew chief correct yeah. okay let's talk about day one. in the military you just came from it. sounds like kind of a uh childhood life.

of debauchery and uh now it's it's time. for some serious discipline so how did. that how'd that work yeah it was pretty. natural fit so um my dad was pretty. disciplined you know with us growing up. he had went to military school as a kid. and uh you know and then I'm just. straight out of two years of um college. level wrestling so I'm as fit as you can.

be I mean we had wrestlers train really. hard you know we had 10K Tuesday where. they literally get us in the team Bus. drop us 10K away from practice and we. would run to practice every Tuesday so. you know and then you're in Air Force. basic training so it's not going to be. that tough for you in that situation so. it just like was immediately felt like. almost like a a relief I was like oh I. can I can be good at this like I don't.

have to worry about money I don't have. to worry about uh where I'm going to eat. next you know I don't have to worry. about anything except for whatever the. task is right in front of me so basic. training was kind of a breeze I was a. Honor Graduate at a. BMT and uh and then just right on to. tech school from there so just rewinding. real quick something were you. did you have a relationship with your. parents when you joined or were you guys.

not speaking we were speaking uh yeah we. were speaking but there was a lot of. bitterness yeah do you think they. were proud of you for making the. decision to go into the military or oh. yeah they could have been more proud I. mean they were they were ecstatic they. were you know they went to my um basic. training graduation. and they they couldn't have been happier. they you know looking back you know the.

tough love thing they just they wanted. the best for me and they had seen so. many people just kind of get stuck in. that phase of life where hey you're done. with school and you're not really. progressing towards the next thing at. least you know I was kind of going. through the motions but I really wasn't. I was getting terrible grades in. Community College yeah like like this is.

these are not the brightest bulbs out of. high school and I'm getting like D's and. C's and Fs so it's not like I was uh. showering myself in glory if I had been. doing great I'm sure it would have been. an entirely different story but you know. I'm getting terrible grades getting home. at 2 A.M every night uh so yeah they did. the tough love thing and uh when I got. on the path it couldn't have been. happier good. yeah so I just kind of Cruis through. basic training and then uh off to uh.

c17 uh tech school where you learn how. to be a mechanic that was in a Shephard. Air Force Base in uh witch Falls Texas. okay yeah and um that went pretty smooth. and uh that was actually the first kind. of real introduction I had to the. A10 and so uh the nice thing about the. military which um almost everybody uh. who you know went in and already talks. about this is it doesn't matter where.

you came from doesn't matter your. background you know you're if you had to. get in on with multiple waivers for. being. arrested nice it does it's like it's. like okay you you met the threshold and. now everybody. starts in this same same you know same. place Y and that was just such a relief. because like when I was going to school. um I remember feeling like you know kind.

of taking on a little bit of a victim. mentality like this isn't fair why do I. have to work and go to school and. wrestle my my friends don't have to work. their parents are taking care of it you. know and uh so you kind of get that that. victim mentality if you're not careful. well now um all that doesn't matter and. you don't have to worry about money I. feel like I was rich it was like E1 I'm. like wait a minute I have no expenses. and I'm getting like 400 bucks every two.

weeks this is. awesome this is this is great uh you. know so um uh I thought it I I really. enjoyed it it was like um if you're a. very goal oriented person it's very like. mapped out for you it's like they give. you the syllabus here here's what we're. doing we're all in class the same class. then you can studying your off time. here's when the test is going to be. here's what's going to be on the test so.

it's just all laid out for you and uh. and then I'm starting to stack up some. wins you know I get um the top graduated. out of basic training uh and then Tech. schools going really smooth and I start. realizing like oh like maybe this is uh. this is for me is kind of what I started. feeling like like this is a good good. path that I'm on what year what time. frame is this um. I raised my right hand on in December of. 99 okay and then I was in the delayed.

entry program for I forget um a couple. months so this is early 2000 okay so. just before September 11th yeah so. before we get to September 11th can you. what does a crew chief do on a c17. you're the you're the um basically the. chief mechanic so you do all the. servicing uh. you do most of the maintenance that's. that's just kind of routine maintenance.

uh and then you sign off on the jet when. the pilotes come out and they're ready. to fly okay you're you're basically the. lead crew chief if there's more in-depth. maintenance then it would go to the back. shop to like the hydraulic Specialist or. the engine Specialist or The avionic. Specialist or whatever that may be but. you're kind of overseeing the overall. like Health and Care of the airplane. when it's not in the air but it's a this. a really cool opportunity um for a young. person cuz I mean you know I just told.

you where where my background was and. now I'm working on this multi-million. dollar. airplane and uh once you get a little. experience you can go and go on the. missions with the aircraft and um so now. now I'm traveling all over the country. and all over the world and uh it's it's. really a cool experience nice nice. so I'm not sure where to inject this. into the interview so we'll just do it.

now but CU we're talking early 2000 time. frame so where are you on September 11th. 2001 okay so um I uh finished out my. time as a crew chief so I finished up. tech school then I went to Charleston. South. Carolina and um that's where I got. picked up on an Roc scholarship Okay so. soon as I got to my unit so I did like I. said great in BMT did great in tech.

school and then got a great start in. Charleston and I started realizing that. hey maybe I could actually become a. pilot and maybe I can get good grades if. I actually go to class and pay attention. so I started knocking out um classes and. my off time still training what kind of. classes just basically my undergraduate. stuff oh so you're working you're back. in school college so I'm trying to like.

um I'm realizing so I had this Epiphany. so when we're at tech school we're at. the same base as the pilot training base. one of the pilot training bases so um. I'm talking to these guys flying the the. uh t37 and the t38 going through pilot. training like they're at the cafeteria. they're at the BX or whatever and so um. and they're basically spelling all this. out what it takes to become a pilot. they're like okay here's what it is you. take the standardized test they look at.

your GPA your physical fitness test and. like anything else in the military you. can kind of reverse engineer it so. you're like well if I want to be. competitive here's the cut line and. here's the criteria for that and I'm. going like I think I could do that like. I can get good grades if I have this. like fire under my ass you know so as. I'm even before I even get to my first. base I was thinking that that's what I. wanted to do that I'm going to just take.

this and run with it so I get to my. first base and I just start basically. after about six months I start putting. together um my paperwork to go to. officer training so um I'm working as a. crew chief again I'm taking these like. challenge exams these klip tests so I'm. studying on my own challenging the. courses and all of a sudden they they're. like okay well um you're standard test. scores were good cuz I um again I just.

became fanatical about that goal so I'm. like to do that you need to be you have. to be good at your primary job if I fail. as a crew chief this isn't going to work. but I also need to you know I I didn't. have any math background to speak of I. didn't really pay attention at all in. high school so uh or really Junior High. either. so I was basically Bally building it. from the ground up but um I was smart. enough to figure out what I needed to do.

to get where I needed to be on this uh. on this testing so um like I said they. made it very clear what the test was. going to be on so you could just Shore. up those areas of your of your. weaknesses yeah so when I I took the. altitude test I was like middling to. slightly below average in like every. area except for pilot aptitude was like. top 10% so no cuz there's like a. hand eye coordination part of it I was.

always a good athlete I got I maxed the. physical fitness test and then I did. pretty good on every other category you. know for that test so the Air Force has. gotten pretty good at being able to. identify the characteristics that would. make you good at the job I mean they've. been doing it for a while yeah so for. some reason uh though they were able to. identify that and um I was just really. fortunate to uh have some good leaders.

at that time um there was a group. Commander that was just an awesome guy. I'd gone on some some trips with him and. uh he's just like what do you want to do. you know like uh what are your goals and. I told him I want to be a pilot and he's. like I think you could do it and so I. just got support early on and I just. went for it so I did everything that was. required for the application and and uh. got accepted for an ROTC scholarship So.

within a year and a half so I'm living. in my car year and a half later the Air. Force is cutting me loose on a full. scholarship to get my undergrad wow and. go to Pilot training so I was you. crushed it yeah I just I like I didn't. go home I didn't um it's hard to. articulate like I try to tell people. like this is what I had to do to make. that happen they're like I'm going to do. that I want to do that and uh and then. they're like hey do you want to go to.

like you know Chili's tonight and talk. about it and I'm like dude you're not. getting it like there's no more chilies. like there's no more anything like you. are going to if you want to do with what. I did with the capabilities that I had. maybe someone smarter than me could have. done it uh done it better but um that's. that's your new life is studying working. training sleeping there's no more hours. in the day so I just I just went all in.

on it and it magically worked out I mean. I think if I tried to do that a thousand. more times it would probably you know. fail 999 times like it was just all the. circumstances just lined up perfectly. it's kind of pre 911 too so they would. cut you loose for programs like that. back then after 9 11 hit there was like. a stop loss that lasted many years so.

they cut me loose um to go back to. school just right before 911 it was in. August 2001 wow. so um I I think it was August 18th I. separate from the Air Force I join the. Air Force Reserves while I'm a Cadet and. um show up at the school at this point I. only need two years left just based on. what I did pass in community college and. uh all the challenge exams and the the.

courses that I had done while I was in. so I'm on a 2-year RC scholarship and. I'm sitting in the cafeteria eating. breakfast getting ready to go to class. and the news is on and I watch uh watch. the plan's impact. wow what was your I mean what's the. first thought that went through your. head I just like wanted to kick ass like. I just remember thinking like oh like we. have to. go you know we have to go get these.

guys and uh it just increased my. motivation even more like I just felt. like Hey we're we're under attack. there's this evil threat out there and. um people need to step up and do their. part and I knew that uh I just wanted to. get through training as quick as. possible and I wanted to get in the. fight and that's how I felt at the.

time what was. your did you have any prior experience. with a10s you kind of brought that up. yeah so my. um like crew chief fundamentals. instructor so you're basically assigned. to one main instructor he was an A10. Crew Chief and he was a go War veteran. so the the whole time we're going. through uh that course I'm hearing. stories about the A10 you know crushing.

tanks and uh scud hunting and uh it he. like he had all these um these stories. that were just fascinating to me and it. just uh I just again became kind of. obsessed with the idea of flying this. airplane and the A10 is so simple to. work on it's it's very straightforward. so they use that for your basic uh crew.

chief training so say you learn about. the fundamentals of a hydraulic system. per se so you're in the classroom here's. the reservoir here's the pump here's the. lines here's the you know the different. types of valves whatever it may be you. do the classroom instruction and then. you go out to the A10 and you pull off. the panels and there it is you can see. it it's you know it was designed for. ease of Maintenance so it can operate in. these auster environments um so it's a. perfect airplane to learn the the basics.

of being a mechanic on so I'm sitting in. the cockpit of this thing you know. that's in the hanger for for maintenance. looking through the heads up display and. you know I'm still a young young guy. even though I I took kind of the. Practical route to be a technician. thinking more of like hey this could. lead to a job uh I still wanted to be. you know kind of rose that um design ire. to be a warrior within me and then you. know he had this story of um he's like.

there was this Surfer guy and he flew. like right over the top of us went. inverted and gave us the the Hang Loose. and I he's like I could see his. hand that's how low they fly damn and I. remember just thinking like how cool is. that like I mean you're basically like. it combines everything that I loved you. know you're like. like uh so when you went. to when you went to school you know with.

with the intention to become a pilot I. mean your intention the entire time was. to be an A10 pilot yeah so once I. decided that I was going down that path. I just wanted to fly the A10 like I just. the airplane kind of captured me in a. way that none of the others did and then. when 911 hit I knew that that airplane. would be critical in this war that was. going to unfold so um my RC Commander.

was an ac130 guy and so he basically. laid it out he's like this uh situation. will impact the rest of your careers and. probably your whole lives so he's like. get ready for the long War because this. is not going to be over quick no and so. I knew there was going to be a lot of. ground combat I always thought like the. um like the F-15 and you know then the.

F22 that came out after F16 I always. thought they're awesome um but in my. mind at that point I thought they're. more oriented towards airto a and our. generation is going to be fighting this. counterinsurgency and so if I want to. contribute I need to get into the air to. ground game and so yeah I I just wanted. to fly the A10. very cool and if it became a little. unhealthy because I felt like anything.

other than achieving that goal was a. complete failure and if I couldn't do. that I'd just might as well just quit or. die trying well you had mentioned. earlier that you get some laser focus. yeah and it's just like I watched all. the documentaries read all the books and. that's what I wanted to do so let's fast. forward through your time at school and. and pick up when you come back into the. air. force okay so um now it's uh finish it.

up in two years um so now I'm a second. lieutenant in the Air Force getting. ready for uh pilot training so uh go off. to Pensacola there's an exchange so hold. on real quick so they did you have a. guarantee that if you went through. school that you are guaranteed to get. into the pilot program no I had to. compete so at the end of your junior. year you are basically track selected. for a job in the Air Force so I finished.

my junior year and now they take uh a. combination of factors so now same types. of stuff so your GPA standardized test. Commander's recommendation physical. fitness and uh basically give you a. number you know you your your overall. score and then you're rack and stacked. against every other you know Cadet that. wants to be a pilot and then there's a. cut line everyone above it goes to Pilot. training everyone below it has to.

compete for something else so I did. pretty good in Roc I graduated with. honors now um for my undergrad in. history and then um uh then off to Pilot. training so yeah nothing's guaranteed. you always have to compete for what. you're going to do what about what type. of plane you're going to fly so how that. works is um. pilot training is essentially split up. into two parts and uh it's always.

changing so um the way the details of. how they do this so I'm I'm going back. to my era obviously but uh after the. first phase of Flight Training they put. you on a track so there's fighter bomber. track which is you go fly the t38 and. that's for the guys that are going to be. tactical um what is the t38 uh the t38. Talon is a a um twin engine uh tandm. cockpit it it it's a trainer aircraft.

but it looks a lot like the F5 that you. saw that they they call the Mig and Top. Gun the original so it's it's just. basically like a 50s era fast jet okay. it's super hard to fly it's got like a. tiny wing and it's really fast and you. don't have any experience at that speed. but um but yeah so you finish up the. first phase of training and then they. track select you again so fighter bomber. uh Heavies so like cargo aircraft or.

tankers and then like helicopters and. then c130s are their own track so you're. constantly being sorted as you go and. you have no input on this you have your. dream sheet so the way you get what you. want is you graduate higher and then. they match that up with what's available. the needs of the Air Force so number one. guy say he wants to fly the Tactical. track go t-38s um well out of say like.

35 people there's five or six going to. the fighter bomber track so top five or. six guys that have identified that. that's what they want to do go on that. track on Down the Line until the bottom. the bottom graduate gets what's. remaining what does nobody want in my. era it was the awax so the big command. and control like giant heavy with a big. radar above. you what does everybody want um it.

changes uh the way it was for us at the. very beginning of class they're like who. wants to be a fighter pilot and nearly. everybody rais their hand and then like. three months later they're like who. wants to be a fighter pilot and like. half the people raise their hand cuz. training is very it's very difficult. you're just getting kicked in the face. every day. like as you know coming from your. background like we don't have time to.

Pat you on the back and tell you how. good you are and how much potential you. have and it's okay you did you did good. yesterday but you just had a bad day. like there's there's no um there's no. time to talk about all the things you. did right because that's the standard. that's the expectation so you have to. have a thick skin because everything. revolves around the things that you need. to improve on so. um it doesn't feel good to every day.

just get shredded and you just it just. breaks you down over and over and over. again and then uh I think a lot of. people halfway through that start going. yeah I don't know if I want this life. continuing on because if you go uh the. heavy track it's just known as being a. little more chill like so so this phase. of my life is going to be over and then. I can um travel the world and and I'm. sure it's an awesome career I'm not.

diminishing it in any way but not. everybody wants to um again get keep. getting kicked in the teeth for another. three years yeah yeah so then yeah so. then about half the people still were. wanted to fly Fighters and there were. probably the top half of the class as. you start to sort and then uh that's. about how it was at the end but then it. was early 911 I would say um. like it started it was I say. traditionally in the Air Force in that.

time frame everybody the best guys want. to fly the. f115c because that was a strictly an. air-to-air platform so it was it was. like that's like straight out of Top Gun. right you just go crush migs and those. guys are better at what they do so F-15. still flies but then a lot of those guys. went on to the F22 and they'll just kill. anything that moves in the sky like. their their uh capability is. unbelievable like you would not want to.

face these guys in the air this they're. just single Mission. single-minded e breed and you know the. whole deal just nothing but airto a. focused like it's just every day all day. all about killing migs that's what they. live for and so um and and this a very. difficult Mission cuz if you're talking. like 4v4 4 V8 there's all these little. fur balls everywhere and the guys that. are good at it they're fighting and they.

know where everybody else in their. formation is fighting and they're. tracking it like second by second and. they know exactly the right ways to. deconflict the flight to make the right. Radio Calls to um recreate what happened. in the debrief to a Precision that's. just is mind-blowing so uh traditionally. the um the very best guys wanted to go. do that mission but when 911 hit then I. would say there were starting to be a.

Divergent uh because of the type of. mission that the global you know the. global war on terror was going to bring. to us so then you had a lot more guys. want to fly the. A10 uh and then the f-15e and then the. F5 or sorry the F16 because they had an. AOG ground component so I would say at. that point the best guys still want to. fly kind of fight or attack and then it. was just vary depending on personality. as as far as what do they want to fly. after pilot training interesting.

interesting so when you get to when you. get to flight school how long is it. before you're actually in a plane off. the ground um it varies but I think it's. like like you're waiting to start. because like. any uh any program that's managing a. large number of people they might not. flow you in immediately I think I sat. for like two months just waiting to. start then I want to say it's six weeks. of ground. school and I think that included some. simulator time and then you're in the.

air with your instructor what's the. first plan you flew uh T well they did. send me to get a private pilot's license. in Cessna kind of after I think it was. after college but before pilot training. and then the first military plane I flew. was the. t34c uh with the Navy so I was in an. exchange program took a handful of Navy. and Marines and put them through Air. Force primary training and then air for. handful of Air Force guys went and. trained with the Navy how'd that feel.

your first time up oh it was incredible. it was like it was almost surreal uh it. was like I'm I can't believe I actually. am pulling this off you know but uh and. then you quickly snap to it because. you're behind the aircraft so they talk. about like just like hanging from the. vertical stab like things are happening. before you can compute what you're. supposed to do so say there's a certain. amount of tasks even just for something. simple as coming into land so as you're.

on short final you're getting ready for. short final you need to drop the flaps. you know get below certain air speed. drop the landing gear you know you're. going through all these tasks well now. you're inside of the minimum range to. get all those things done because your. central processor is just bog down. you're still thinking about uh what you. messed up 10 minutes ago. damn so you just it just hits you like. okay um this is incredible I can't.

believe I made it here and I don't know. if I'm going to be good enough to. actually do this cuz uh it just seems. overwhelming you're looking at all the. instruments you're behind and it is. tough yeah yeah I can't. imagine I tried to fly. once it uh. assessa I ran it into the middle of the. yeah I didn't get very far I ran it into.

the the like the grass median at the. airport and the guy that was teaching me. was like what the are you doing man. that's so funny I didn't know you st. that's a bad instructor. hey I was yeah it was. uh plus I don't like heights but um so. what what kind of stuff are you learning. Ground School um you're just learning. the systems of the aircraft CFT you're. learning uh some basic aerodynamics. you're learning about aviation weather.

um I just going through the main. emergencies for you know how you're. going to handle these different. malfunctions that can happen in the. airplane so they say it's like trying to. take a sip of water from a fire hose and. that's what it feels like so you're just. they're just blasting you with. information for eight hours a day and. you're trying to absorb it. all are there like. I just want you to go through the whole. timeline you know of your experience so. you go to Ground School 6 weeks then.

you're in your first you're in the air. for the first time in a military craft. is it broken up into phases or yeah. exactly so there's um what they call. contact phase which is just basic of. flying the aircraft daytime visual. flight rules so similar to kind of the. stuff you'd learn in a Cessna so just. how to fly in the pattern how to land. the airplane how to get out to the. airspace how to recover from stalls you.

know it's just the just the fundamentals. of flying in the most kind of benign. environment. possible so then you go through and. there's like form or it's not. necessarily in this order but there's. instrument phase so now you're learning. how to fly when you can't see outside. just by looking at your. instruments um and there's aerobatics. uh formation phase low. level and then kind of tying it all.

together so when they when you guys i'. love to get a little more descriptive on. each phase but when you got like is they. continue to sort the class out I mean is. the class get broken up or is it all the. same pipeline you're all in the same. pipeline so you're all going through and. if someone gets ahead they'll kind of. slow them down and then people catch up. and at any time throughout this process. you're three flights away from going.

home so you fail a ride you go to a. progress check with your flight. Commander you pass that ride continue on. in the syllabus you fail that ride. you're on an elimination ride with your. squadron commander or someone he. designated to do that for him so um it's. a tremendous amount of pressure because. you have this in the back of your head. and you see it happen is just uh you. have a bad week and your hopes and.

dreams are gone damn so uh you see that. guy shows up Monday morning no problems. and starting to out process Friday. afternoon damn what's the attrition. right like um I don't know exactly it's. not that high I want to say like 10 15%. when I was going through and um they. they have a pretty thorough vetting. process um so by the time you get there.

you know you've you've probably have a. pretty good GPA through college you've. done through all the standardized. testing so they I think they do a pretty. good job of of finding the people who. it's just not. for uh and then if you're having a hard. time they might have a community that. would make sense for your skill set so. say you barely make it through formation. phase well there's aircraft you can fly. that don't necessarily.

fly in close formation all the time you. know so um if you're capable and you're. good enough to get there and you don't. quit there's a pretty good chance. they'll get you through okay but when. you're going through that as a student. uh you don't feel that what why do. planes why do you guys fly in a. formation um there would be a lot of. reasons so they call it basic admin it. might just be getting to the Target area.

um as easy as possible so say there's a. bunch of weather and. um and you're getting vectored around by. air traffic control and you're leading a. foreship you might just want to bring. everyone in close formation if it's. really busy airspace or something they. just fly visually off you and then. everyone else deconflict around you. doesn't have to deconflict from this. massive airplanes that are all a mile. and a half apart from each other they. could all be close in so uh yeah so.

basically it's for close end formation. is for admin and then you have tactical. formations which are obviously more. spread out and that's for like employing. and uh surviving and killing the. target wow so yeah there's a there. there's an endless amount of discussion. on on the tactics it would uh you know. the skill set that you need to be able. to employ these airplanes what is the I. mean how how was the relationship.

between instructor and student is it is. it like they're yelling and screaming it. just depends on the instructors like it. was funny like I I flew with one of my. first instructors was a marine and uh he. s behind you in the t34 and he would. just get furious he'd grab his water. bottle and throw it at the back of your. head. you keep tally of things you screwed up. and make you push the ground when you. land you know so you you you land and.

you're sitting there like under the wing. of your airplane just doing like 100. push-ups or whatever he tallied up and. then some of the guys were like they're. like man this is like Shore Duty for us. like this is fine like just like here's. what we're going to work on today like. it really came down to the individual. the Navy is way more chill in primary. Flight Training than the air Force no. kidding yeah absolutely the Navy's like. um it was it was an awesome experience.

they're like I remember that a lot of. the IPS are like chilling on the beach. and surfing and you know doing their. thing and they um what's an IP uh sorry. instructor pilot okay yeah I'll try not. to use acronyms but uh yeah so the. instructor Pilots overall they had a. real big picture um you know there's. still there's still a standard to me. like like I was saying like if it's just. uh they might just have a smile on their. face as they do.

it they stab you in the guts but overall. I really uh enjoyed enjoyed flying with. those guys what did you find to be the. most challenging part of flight school. um well all of flight school so after. you finished the t34 then your track. selected as I mentioned so I'm off to. the t38 now I'm in Vance air force space. in Oklahoma and um I'm going flying a. 150 knot prop airplane to Flying a.

supersonic jet with a tiny Wing which. you're the syllabus has you soloing in. like six rides so that entire program of. the t38 was excruciating like I have. never uh felt that level of stress in my. life so just trying to keep up I'm the. kind of guy who has a like a slow. learning curve so there's like there're. standards right like little Milestones. along the way and then you hit an end a.

block and a check ride so I get to the. end of the block and check ride and my. learning curve keeps going going up and. then I hit where I'm supposed to be at. that like exactly when I have to and. then start over like sucking damn so uh. and in my mind I'm like if I don't get. an A10 like I'm just this whole thing. was for nothing you know I don't and. like there's there was literally there. was one A10 out of my entire class so. I'm feeling like are you serious so do. you know hold on so do you know what the.

slots are that you're. competing competing for like when you. show up to Clyde School are they saying. we got 1 1810 slot we got two c17 slots. we've. got six F22 slots you don't know exactly. but you kind of have an idea just based. on the trend data okay so you kind of. see where it's going and you realize. like um typically there was one per.

class couple. f-16s um f-15e and like an F sorry. couple f-16s F-15 uh e and an F-15 C. that was like pretty standard so um if. you have a single Min a goal of what you. want to fly you might be very. disappointed because threading that. needle is very difficult so what was it. like when the first sorting in your. class yeah so they brought us in and uh.

I think I was the first one they told. and they're just like Lieutenant Stark. t38 and then right after me was my buddy. John Delon who went to on to fly the. f-15c and the F22 and they're like. Lieutenant deloney t38 and we're just. like yes we're so stoked it was just. just this huge relief and then and then. they go through they're like T1 T1 T1. there's a whole bunch of cargo aircraft.

to fly and then it could like C130. helicopter and then you're done everyone. just like well I guess we're done damn. damn lot of disappointment or um yeah. little disappoint there's some people. that. um that you know their dad was an F4. pilot and they wanted to be a fighter. pilot and it just wasn't going to happen. and uh they're devastated but most. people I would say start seeing the good.

and what they're going to be doing and. you kind of have a idea of where you're. at in the class as you're going through. gotcha so if you're passing most of your. rides and you're getting decent scores. you can look around and be like well. they're not. necessarily not everyone's making it. through is uh effortless effortlessly. that's not the right word but but you're. struggling but you're still progressing. on time and that's not the case for. everybody so you start to kind of have.

the natural hierarchy kind of develop in. the class so there's not a ton of. surprises so you get you go through your. four s first sorting and then and then. what happens so now I leave the Navy and. I go out to Vance air force base and. inid Oklahoma and uh start to fly the. t38 so that's where you get get your. your fighter bomber pilots from so. that's 6 months um flying the t38 and.

it's basically the same syllabus that. you just went through but now it's in a. much more advanced aircraft okay what. was your first time like going up in. that it was like it was it was. devastating. because it felt impossible like I was. like there's no way I'm going to be able. to do this like the airplane was so fast. I was not able to keep up like it's like. CPU overload like I'm still thinking.

about what I need to do for pre-take-off. checks and we're 10 miles from the base. you damn and my. instructors basically doing everything. you know and you've practiced it. rehearsed it studied it a ton been in. the simulator and you're it's just it's. so difficult to make that transition and. it's it's a really hard airplane to fly. like we've lost a lot of pilots in the. t38 in fact they're getting ready to. replace it with an airplane that will be. much easier to fly still prepare you to.

fly you know tactical aircraft but it's. tough man and if you make a minor. mistake you're going to end up is a. fireball at the end of the runway so. it's it's deadly serious this is the one. you were saying that's similar to a MIG. yeah okay so if it's so difficult why. why do you think they chose that. aircraft it's been around since the 50s. so I think it's just been effective like. it's like if you can fly the T t38 you.

can fly anything do you think it's a. wise decision to move to a easier. aircraft to fly I think so I think as we. move um as we move on to more advanced. Fighters they're actually not that. difficult to fly like the just the. basics of taking off and landing and. flying the airplane they're extremely. stable aircraft so um. I think that I think that they will be. effective and there'll be a lot more um.

use of avionics that will be similar to. your followon assignments in fighter. aircraft so yeah I think it will work. and I think it'll save a lot of people's. lives is there any animosity within. the pilot community that they're moving. to an easier aircraft to fly I don't. think so I think most most most people. are looking at it going it's time it's. past time and we've all lost friends in. that airplane too and for um just minor.

little errors you know like if you. forget to drop the flaps on the final. turn which guess what students do all. the time uh and you get five kns slow. the aircraft will. stall and go nose down and impact the. ground and kill you so it there's. very little margin for error in that. airplane have they already made. that change uh there's still flying them. I don't know exactly where they're at in. the transition but they've identified. the new aircraft it's a Boeing product. so who.

knows uhoh probably be many delays don't. blow the whistle on that you might get. assassinated. right yeah I'll leave that alone but uh. we'll see we'll see how that goes. interesting. interesting how many sortings are there. so now you get to the so the first uh. big sword is after primary training mhm. then you go to the t38 and then at the. end of this 6 months they um then they.

assign you to your actual uh airframe. that you're going to you're going to you. know fly for the rest of your career for. the most part. so um out of my class it was six guys I. think and um according to our flight. commanders they really six Pilots total. in the program yeah holy at all the. Air Force and how many years as long is. this training uh the whole program is a. year so every year there's like there's. they're starting a new class every few.

weeks okay so um I'm not exactly sure. what the timeline is they they vary that. based on demand signal from from the. combat Air Forces you know um but I I. want to say every like three to 6 weeks. they start a new. class that's still not very many. pilot that's a year yeah I mean you. start out you know with 35 and now six. of you are in this new track and out of.

that um it might be three it might. be five usually actually get a fighter. aircraft. damn so is that the last phase yeah so. you get done with that um then you get. assign to your the aircraft you're going. to fly all right let's not go there yet. let's keep let's stay in training so. what I mean what question should I be. asking you about train no these are all. good questions like the biggest like.

thing that I have that stands out to me. from this experience is just it's like. how brutally stressful it was every day. and at this point now your instructors. are looking at you like hey this guy's. going to be on my wing potentially in. combat in a matter of months and is he. cut out for this he's going to be in a. single seed airplane the instructor is. not going to be there for you uh to save. you so it's it's all going to be you uh. and so they're they're just making sure.

leaving every you know making sure. there's no Stones unturned so if you. have a weakness it it there's no way to. paper over it like so they will find it. and exploit it and until you either. figure it out or you go do something. else damn so uh it's you know like it's. like any difficult. transformation it has you have to be. under pressure so by the end of that.

program I mean you're you're a very. capable pilot so six months of extreme. stress and I had like a terrible check. ride at the very beginning of the t38 uh. program so I'm essentially starting the. program dead last in my class damn I'm. going like. like the whole time in the back of my. mind they going they're going to send me. to a bomber I'm G to get a bomber like.

and uh I did not want to do that so you. know now being older seeing a little bit. more more mature I know that those guys. go on to have great careers and um do. amazing things but you know 22-year-old. me saw that as the biggest failure ever. if I couldn't go fly the A10 damn so it. was it's just tough man it's just like I. mean you go to bed shut your eyes and. you're still you're still seeing like.

radials and instruments and um different. site pictures that you need for flying. this airplane it just you're you're. they're turning you into just like a. normal person into someone who can fly a. fighter by yourself so it's difficult is. there so in the in. in Phase One and phase two which we're. covering right now now what I mean are. you is this straight up this is how you. fly the plane or is is it is there any.

engagements. happening like not using the weapons. none of not during this phase it's basic. flying so like again contact which is. just taking off and Landing stalls and. Falls we call it just learn how to. recover from stalls um all your. emergency procedures then it's. aerobatics you know instruments. formation lowlevel so this is It's funny.

because it's so difficult and then later. on in your career it's a stuff you don't. even think about you like you cannot be. an effective fighter pilot if you're. thinking about flying the airplane so. you're basically what you're saying is. the fundamentals have to become muscle. memory yes it's like for me that would. be like shooting or you shouldn't be. thinking about okay you're not thinking. about your controls and this and that. and then I'm going to pull the trigger. it's just an extension of your body you.

have to strap on the Jet and it just. becomes a part of who you are and you're. thinking about you know fast forwarding. now you're thinking about everything. else that's going on in the battle space. and you're flying your airplane um so. flying it becomes slow State yeah okay. it has to like if you're focused inside. your airplane flying it you can't manage. the stack of all the aircraft and keep. track of all the targets threats. friendlies artillery like you it's just.

impossible so you they they they build. this into you so then going forward it. just becomes second nature you do it. without thinking how fast are you guys. flying uh in the t38 I think the. standard Cruise speed was 300 knots damn. what is that an mph uh it's similar. there's like a minor variation God but. then it's supersonic so up at altitude. you can break the sound barrier man yeah. it's cool what I mean what is that like. it's awesome do you feel it oh oh when.

you break the sound barrier no it's. funny you just actually just see the. little mock meter go and you're like. okayy I guess. cool I've done something not everyone. has done Dam that's cool my first Solo. in the t38 was pretty funny um so you. you know you've gone through all this. training and finally they're like they. give you the keys of the airplane and. they're like the last thing they always. tell you is don't do anything dumb. dangerous or different you're going to.

fly this very generic profile but what. does everybody do go do something dumb. dangerous and. different so uh I remember sitting in. the the in Runway waiting to take off. and just being like I'm I'm looking to. my left and right seeing the Jets you. know you see your in the mirror and. you've got the visor and the oxygen mask. on you're just like I cannot believe. this is happening and you're like I.

don't know if I can land like you're. like I'm okay at it with the instructor. coaching me like I don't know if I can. pull this off um like smoothly you know. like I said people die trying so it's no. joke um but anyway once you get cleared. for takeoff then it's just go time and. you do what you're trained to do and. it's not so bad but uh I get out to the. airspace and I've got a 10,000 ft block. so that's my my working airspace and. I've got I'm scheduled for like 20. minutes out there what does that mean.

does that mean you can't go higher than. 10,000 ft yeah so your block would be. like just as an example they might be. like your working airspaces Within These. like Geographic confines you have the. altitude 10,000 to 20,000 ft and once. you're established in that airspace. they'll keep all the other airplanes out. of it and you can maneuver how you wish. and you're not going to you're not going. to have to to worry about deconflict. with other. aircraft so I get out to my working. airspace and the first thing I do is get.

to the very bottom of it put in full. blower goes like fast as humanly. possible and then just this is something. we've never done practicing of course. and just point the nose directly at the. sky and Go full aileron deflection so. now I'm just like cork screwing oh my go. D and I'm like this is like it's like. this is awesome like I can't believe I. have this like Ferrari and I can do. anything I want with it and I'm like I'm. like man I am kicking ass right now this.

is so cool I glance at my altimeter and. I'm like 5,000 ft out the top of my my. airspace oh. what like you know you're getting. into like Airline territory now I'm like. oh damn it like this is not good so I. like rip it to. Idol pull the nose down and now the jet. is like now I'm screaming oh my God down. at the ground and the the t38 has a tiny. Wing um which means it has a huge turn.

Circle so when you're at speed like the. radius of the turn is ginormous right so. now I'm like trying to dish out this. turn and I'm like I'm like Max. performing the aircraft I can't pull any. harder and I'm just trying to dish it. out I go through the top of my block and. I'm still basically vertical and I. barely bring it back down to altitude. right at the bottom of the flooor like. 10,000 ft and now my heart R is racing. I'm at like 200 beats per minute and I'm.

just going I am such an idiot I'm going. to get kicked out of this program and. it's like the first solo so I like stand. the throttles up put it in 30° angle. bank and for the next like 24 minutes I. just fly this perfect circle around the. air space can they see you can they see. what you're doing there uh this now they. can see everything back then not nearly. as much so they might have like a radar. feed but it's. like you know have latency yeah and uh.

anyhow so then I like I bring the jet. back no issues I walk in first thing I. do I kind of look at the Ops desk see. what they're going to. say they're like hey welcome back uh you. got another Sor and 20 you know two. hours get ready and I'm like okay we're. good we're good how do now get sick. doing that I just your cork growing up. at 300 miles an hour and then going.

straight. down um I I don't know I think air. sickness is a lot of it. psychological this is this is my view. I'm not a flight doctor but I just. refused to get air sick I was like I saw. people wash out because of air sickness. and uh I was just like I'm not going to. get sick I'm just going to look outside. it's not going to happen uh I I think. that maybe some people are more prone to. it but I think. exposure you know it helps so if you're.

flying all the time you're used to being. hot sweaty maneuvering you just your. body acclimates it like it does to. anything else can you explain the. gForce yeah so um as you turn pull on. the. stick uh it's just that centrical force. is pulling you down into your seat so. you know if uh whatever your weight is. you have to times that by the number of.

G forces so right now we're at 1 G right. so if we were at 10 G's you would your. frame would be carrying 10 times the. amount of your body weight so as you're. under G like so as I'm pulling out of. that turn you're doing what's called an. anti-g straining maneuver so um you have. a git on which looks like a pair of like. cowboy chaps and then they have air. pockets in them you plug that into the. Jet and then it uses the pneumatic.

system to squeeze your legs Tighter and. Tighter the harder you pull so you do. that in um combination with an anti-g. straining maneuver which is you just. flex your legs flex your butt flex your. abdomen and keep high pressure in your. lungs and then you just take these quick. short choppy breaths. with the idea is you're forcing all the. blood to remain in your brain so you. don't lose uh Consciousness and die cuz.

you're by yourself wow so you got to. learn how to you know fly and fight in. that that environment and that's a lot. of the training is just getting finding. out who's capable of doing that and then. uh train yourself to be able to do it. was that hard for you to master that um. it came Pretty Natural being like kind. of a shorter stockier guy. I think the guys that I saw that had. problems pulling a lot of G's were kind. of taller and skinnier so it's like I. think the distance from your heart to.

your your head has an impact and then. just your overall musculature so if you. can um hold that high tension in your. body you can just force that brain that. blood up to your brain a little bit. easier wow do a lot of people go out. yeah especially in um like the F-16. happens all time a lot of I've lost. friends that way oh man you know it's. it's they're pulling 9 GS which is a lot.

the A10 Max I think was like 7.5 but. yeah they're pulling a ton of G's and. they're right on that threshold and. nobody wants to lose right so they're. your vision as you start to G out your. vision starts going tunnel vision. blacking out around the periphery and. you're just looking right down the. center and then it just closes up and. guys going conscious but like even the. best guys will fly in that that gray. area where they're like um about ready.

to. pass whoa just they want to you know do. you do that no the A1 um it being. primarily eight air to ground was not um. this is I'm talking more air to air no. okay A10 is more just repetitive like. you're pulling G's off Target and then. off Target maneuvering so you're getting. that continuous stress but it's not like. you in a turning fight and if you can. just get your nose around you can gun.

the guy or get a missile on him now. that's where they are under that. prolonged sustained G and like the. thrust a weight ratio of those Fighters. is incredible so they can just you know. full blower full turn and sustain that. energy so yeah it's a it's a pretty. Dynamic. environment I don't know how you do it. even just doing elevators in a. helicopter man going straight up I feel. like my brain's going to go out my ass.

dude it's so much better when you're. flying. yourself it's it starts to feel just. like an extension of your body right. like it's just you you and the Machine. merge and you're just thinking about. your uh your mission and you know what. you're trying to do in that moment so if. I yeah I'd be way worse off in the back. for for sure right on so you go through. so you go through you get through phase. two and what happens so now I'm a um.

know that I'm borderline of what I'm. going to get and uh um and essentially. how it goes down is they bring you um. you have an assignment night party and. they bring you into the um the officer. club and all your friends and family are. there and and they bring someone up and. they have different ways of doing it. that are that are just funny you know. kind of make it seem random but it's not.

they have like Big Wheel of Fortune and. then there's your entire drop so you get. in the room and you're looking at like. all the airplanes on the Wheel of. Fortune right and they like I said they. have many different ways of doing it but. then a guy like they'll just call. somebody up and they'll spin it and then. they'll like stop it and then keep it. going know it's like someone's actually. manipulating it and then it stops and. they go uh grab that airplane and then.

spin it the next guy does and so you. basically just uh get assigned where. you're going to go so uh for me um I had. no idea what I was going to get they. don't tell you um and my flight. Commander knew how bad I wanted to fly. the A10 in fact um approach approaching. the end of pilot training uh he had told. me that there were no a10s in the drop. which was true and uh I told him that uh.

I wanted to cross commission to the. Marines and um Fly the Harrier or the. Hornet and I told him all about this um. cross commissioning program that I was. going to do if I didn't get the. A10 and uh in my stupid mind I thought. they like I could actually do that cuz. there's a there's an official program. for transferring to other services and. he just laughed he's like he's like you. have a 10year commitment the Air Force. is not going to let. you join the marine and I'm like I'm.

having nightmares that I'm not going to. get what I you know set out to do I I uh. I would have been again it was a lot of. immaturity at the time but that's just. how I felt about it and anyhow I got up. there and they're just like uh. Lieutenant. Stark and they like messed with me a. little bit showed different airplanes. and then they're like congratulations. A10 to uh Tucson Arizona then uh it was.

just total relief at that point damn. man do do you get pinned or anything. like that um no it's uh it's before. you've got your wings okay it's like. you're it's like maybe two weeks left. you have just a handful of sorties. before you actually get your pilot. wings so you get the A10. how long is it before you go to Tucson. so there's still some more training you. need to do so um you go to uh survival.

school out in uh Spokane. Washington and um you go to uh. introduction to fighter fundamentals. which is another wash out program what. do you think of s school I've never talk. to a pilot about sear school I loved it. like you loved it yeah I was like in my. element you know like out of the woods. being just yeah back in the woods I was. with my buddy uh my buddy John we were. kind of like combat paired together and.

um I'm a wrestler so I'm used to not. eating and cutting weight used to being. in the woods so I I had a great time and. then like everyone else is like starving. to death and I think I kind of like. relished in this the suffering you. know it was yeah there's a lot um you. don't want to uh divulge about it. because when someone goes through it you. want them to have that experience unfold. so they get the uh get all the the all. the training value that they need out of.

it but uh that survival School turns. into um your you know Advanced beatings. or your uh. P intern school or whatever they're. calling it so you end up as a p and then. you go go through that and uh it was it. was a great experience like I mean just. going through the full range of of. emotions as you're thinking about all of. those.

um you know PS who've actually went. through that and the guys at the Hanoi. Hilton and yeah the uh you know Japan. and Germany and just going back and. you're like you know this is uh scripted. we know that they're not going to kill. us it's not that um it's not that. stressful I know when we're leaving here. so you know it's not the same but you do. reflect on uh what those guys have been. through and what um your mindset would. be if you were were captured so I I just.

thought it was a great experience good. good and so then you go to some type of. a fighter school yeah so now you have. another six week program it's called. introduction to fighter fundamentals. it's in the t38 and it's the. last like vetting before they actually. let you go fly a fighter aircraft so. um so that program like again is six. weeks and now you're starting to learn. tactics so you're taking everything you. learned about the fundamentals of flying.

and now you're flying in tactical. formations you're learning the. communications the formations and. everything you need for all the like. air-to-air engagements so that way when. you get to your first quadron you've got. like the vocabulary and the basic. understanding of how to set these things. up then you're learning the basics of. air ground and. um uh you know so you're you're going. through the sixe program and the way.

that the the instructors are looking at. it as U now these guys are really close. um to get into a Fighter Squadron and. this is our last chance to make sure. they're good to go so then that's also. like I said a wash out program and in. our era we lost um I don't know the. stats but it was a fair amount of people. they were just getting ejected left and. right damn and I had such a hard time in. t-38s I was pretty stressed out about.

heading out there uh but for some reason. just a combination of um luck and timing. or whatever it was I just flew right. through that program I think I busted. one ride and uh passed the recheck and. was done like two weeks before everyone. else so I was just like life is good man. I made it right on man so I guess at. that point you're heading to fly the A10. yeah the next going out to fly the hog. let's uh let's take a quick break and. when we come back we'll pick up right.

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SSRS all right Dale we're back from the. break you're getting ready to sit in and. fly the A10 for the first. time let's start right there yeah that. was uh. just an incredible experience I mean. you've been through so much you start to. maybe see the light at the end of the. tunnel a little bit like you're actually.

you're just can't believe you maneuvered. through this Maze and ended up exactly. uh what you had set out to do and uh it. the training in the A10 was just a great. experience like the mentality was um. you're one of us now and we're going to. train you how to employ this weapon. system and there there are guys and gals. who don't make it through that training. uh but it's not for lack of trying from.

the instructors so uh so you do have a. little bit of relief from that constant. pressure but not a not a ton but um. again you just feel like you might. actually make this happen. now what what what's it like for. you like you'd un you had not wavered in. what you wanted this entire time so I. mean just. describe your first time climbing into. that aircraft yeah I still remember it.

like it was yesterday like the the A10. is huge for uh like a tactical aircraft. if you see one next to an F-16 we used. to joke that you could put the F-16 on. one of our hardpoints and it would like. work as a missile like it's it's just a. massive airplane it looks similar size. like a B17 from the World War II ER and. uh yeah you get there and you're just. it's almost surreal you know so you go. through again Ground School simulator.

training uh and then you hit the flight. line and there's no two seaters in this. airplane like they made a couple and uh. they never went operational with them so. every A10 in the fleet is a single seat. airplane so you go through your. simulator training and then next thing. you know you're out there on your first. flight by yourself and you have an. instructor and he's just kind of tucked. in behind you the whole time and he's. there and he's talking on the radio and. it feels similar to having him in your.

cockpit but he can't take the jet from. you if if needed so it's on you but yeah. you just you walk around this airplane. you see the ga8 Avenger and you know. you're looking at the uh seven barrels. looking at all the hard points the. titanium bathtub what do you mean by the. hard points oh sorry the hard points. underneath the wing and the F Lodge that. hold your uh like Conventional Weapons. okay so missiles bombs uh things of that. nature are those all attached for your.

first flight so you don't uh for your. first flight you might have some like. a9s that you just have to have like a. symmetrical um configuration okay so but. there's not much on it they depend on. what you're doing there's there's like a. couple a9s on it and then something to. counterbalance it on the other side if I. recall correctly but yeah so uh you're. like this is actually like is this. someone pinched me am I going to wake up. and this whole thing was a dream cuz. it's just such a. whirlwind uh but yeah it's it's.

incredible and then you climb up the. ladder you know fire it up drop the. canopy and you're it's got this big. bubble canopy so you're just kind of. looking over your shoulders and you. don't see a ton of the jet when you're. sitting in the seat because they want. you to have really good visibility to. execute the mission so it's just it's an. incredible feeling like the t38 you feel. like you're in the jet the A10 you feel. like you're sitting kind of on top of it. you know uh like the Jets just basically.

underneath and behind you is how it. feels and uh yeah and then you again do. everything that you've been trained to. do take the runway get clear for takeoff. throttle comes forward and off you go. and you know get. airborne uh bring the gear and the flops. up and turn out into into your work in. airspace and you're just like you know. maybe look over at your instructor who's. now your wingman and you're like holy. I did this I pulled it off like if.

I die tomorrow I was an A10. pilot I remember thinking that I'm like. no one can ever take this away from me. what how did it uh maneuver um it. Maneuvers great so one of the uh key. aspects of the aircraft and its design. was making it highly maneuverable so you. know to to uh execute the close air. support Mission you need to have uh. certain characteristics that enable you. to do that effectively so you need to be.

able to fly low altitude you need to be. uh have good stability at low air speeds. because you need to be able to battle. track of what's going on and then you. need to be highly maneuverable so you. can survive so it's just it's a after. coming out of that t38 the A10 is just a. pure dream to fly it's got a big. straight fat Wing that creates a ton of. lift it's very forgiving like you could. teach any pilot to fly the A10 no.

kidding yeah just as far as like flying. from A to B it's just it's a joy yeah. it's great to fly so is everything it. was that uh you had hoped yeah it was it. was amazing I mean yeah you're in your. early 20s especially like where I had. come from you're going you're just going. I kept genuinely ask asking myself if it. was real like it was almost. unbelievable uh and then it just yeah I. just ran with it and um are you the only.

student there no so now so there there. there's five pilot training bases and so. now you're pulled in with like say one. or two people from all those bases and. then they'll wait a while to start a. class there's fewer A10 classes and. there are pilot training classes so when. once they get like a dozen students. they'll start your class okay so yeah so. now I'm with a new you know group of. friends and uh we're all starting day.

one in the hog together and go and. that's a six-month program until you uh. get done and go to your first Fighter. Squadron another six months. yeah so yeah it was just it was. incredible I mean and it's again. drinking through the fire hose you're. learning the basic maneuvers then next. thing you do is you're doing air to air. then you're doing air to ground then. you're doing more complex air to ground. then you're doing everything at night.

you know it's just it just quickly. becomes where um all of those skill sets. you've acquired they just have to be. rote and uh muscle memory and you don't. have time to think about it because now. you're employing this airplane as a. weapon system which is a whole another. another ball game wow wow wow so can you. go through some of the weapons that are. attached to the A10 yeah so the most. popular and the most fun to employ is.

the 30 mm so um it's seven Barrel Gaton. gun uh it's powered by electrical and. hydraulics so it's kind of like a. throwback to some you know 20th Century. weapon is what it feels like it's. freaking awesome carries 1174 rounds and. it shoots 70 rounds a second 70 rounds a. second yes holy. um there's uh you can carry what's.

the math on that how many rounds 11 1174. 1174 the way I think about it 70 rounds. a second so what's that like maybe 10. seconds yeah you don't necessarily. employ it like that you don't just empty. the gun you just you get it they call it. like a combat burst so a couple. how many comes out in a combat burst as. long as it takes you to say die call me. die and that's how how we trained our.

students like you you know you set. engage the uh there's there's more that. goes into it but you roll in acquire the. target line up your uh symbology so you. have a continuously computed aim point. so it's the computers looking at the. winds your air speed your attitude your. altitude the ground and it's giving you. a computerized site that's going to tell. you where those bullets impact and then.

you have something called Precision. attitude control so you squeeze the. trigger halfway and the Jet will lock in. place to just drive a nail through that. point on the ground so is for like. killing tanks or armor anything like. that you need to get reduce you know. increase bullet density reduce that. dispersion that allows you to do that so. yeah you roll in acquire the target. check your. parameters uh you know your dive angle.

your air speed your altitude things like. that engage pack one make any minor. adjustments die call me die release the. trigger see impact pull off Target look. over your shoulder assess BDA it's just. awesome die commi die that's got to be a. second right um no I think it's more. like 3 seconds is oh you say it's slow. yeah so that's like 210 rounds yeah. they'll be a good burst depend on theend.

on the target you know holy what. else um well last thing on the bullets. is you have uh high explosive incendiary. rounds which basically like little hand. grenades that that uh explode on impact. so anti-personnel things like that and. then uh we also can carry the armor. piercing incendiary which are the. depleted uranium rounds which can punch. holes in armor so uh load out just.

depending on the potential targets so. it's pretty pretty badass weapon yeah. yeah. wow. amazing yeah everyone loves the gun so. when the first day you shoot the gun. it's it's like I love the sound of it oh. yeah yeah and then the smell it's. probably terrible for you but the the. cordite fills the cockpit and you're. just. like. yeah I'll bet man bet that brings some.

memories back definitely uh and then the. what's what makes the A10 or has made it. so awesome at what it's done is its. versatility so you know it's. maneuverable survivable in these types. of cast fights like I believe wherever. the Army can operate. whever Apaches can operate the A10 can. operate um just like the ac130 yeah. we're not going to go in against like. triple digit Sams but if the Infantry is.

moving we can be there uh so you have an. assortment of weapons um to help meet. the ground commander's intent so I. talked about the 11 hard points you can. pretty much carry any conventional. weapon that are that's in the inventory. so uh we carry a9s for defensive. purposes so airto a missiles um usually. typically depends on where again but you. have some sort of uh ECM so uh like an.

electronic jamming pod so you can help. try to jam Radars and then uh you just. have an assortment of like 500 lb class. bombs so like early in the gwatt we. dropped a lot of GBU 12s laser gu of. bombs uh then GBU 38s came online so GPS. guided bombs 500 pound class again and. then on my last deployment we had uh GBU. 54s which are laser and GPS guided so.

they continuously uh update with your. what you're lasing so they just they. just react faster as far as like the GBU. 38s you like program The Bomb release it. and then it'll hit that Target is where. GBU 54 you're continuously sending it. updates even when the bomb is in. flight and then Rockets you know uh wiie. pets they call them white phospherous. for marking targets just get a big white.

plume because as a A10 pilot you might. need to do the Ford air controller. Mission so you need to get everyone. else's eyes on the target area so you. might put down a couple Willie pets and. everyone says yep contact your smoke you. can talk them on from. there um and then Maverick missiles are. always fun and now they're carrying uh. small diameter our bombs which have a. massive bomb range and we're basically. like just Giant Bomb truck for those can. carry a ton of them so yeah like pretty. much any conventional weapon in the.

inventory the a can carry damn damn so. think about a foreship of that showing. up in a in a gunfight you know yeah it's. it's like it's a lot of capability yeah. yeah. so you go through six months of the. school. you you. graduate and then what so now I um get. assigned to my first Fighter Squadron so.

I go up to Fairbanks. Alaska and that's uh that was my first. assignment yeah so um load up everything. I own in a um short Cab. F-150 which is pretty awesome to think. about like I. could yeah look just like some clothing. and that's about. it put in the back of my truck and off I. go and um I I arrive there and it's like.

a ghost town because everybody is in. Afghanistan and there's um one guy left. and he had just gotten back from a. deployment his wife was eight months. pregnant or whatever it was uh his. name's gecko great guy um and he's the. only one there so he's just kind of. keeping the lights on in the Squadron. and uh they welcome me so and he's also. an instructor and you're when you arrive. at your first Squadron you're not fully.

qualified yet you have to do a local. Mission checkout before they finally. sign you off and say you're good to go. to Flying. combat so they're already downrange and. I'm just dying to get down there and. join them and uh I talked to the. commander and he is like no like it's. too late like just get settled in and. you'll get on get in on the next. rotation and uh at that time I'm.

thinking this thing's going to be over. and I'm going to miss out you know I'm. going to be the like one A10 guy from. this era that has zero combat experience. and so I'm I'm pretty bummed about that. I'm thinking about what I can do what. year is this this is uh early 2000 so I. early 2006 okay so I graduated in 2005. get there in. 2006 so I go through my local checkout.

with Gecko and everything goes fine and. something happened down range that I. still am not completely privy to but it. was uh I don't again I don't know. exactly what happened but I think. somebody uh screwed something up and got. sent home and uh morale was low they had. been there a while and it was just kind. of a lull in the deployment and I talked. to my commander and I had a proposal and.

I was like hey if uh if you let me come. out I will bring a giant cooler full of. like frozen hbit salmon you know. whatever like uh I can do to kind of. bring some fresh energy to the Squadron. we're can have a big barbecue and it'll. be it'll be awesome and uh he thinks. about it and uh he's he gets back to me. he's like okay let's do it like get your. butt out here so uh so I get this giant.

cooler and I fill it up with like all. the halet and salmon I could find uh. pack it with dry ice and uh off I go to. Afghanistan so my uh my first flight in. the A10 that was not on a great sheet. meaning was not part of an official. syllabus was actually in theater which. was pretty cool but um anyhow before we. even get there uh to get to Afghanistan.

as a single you they call it a Singleton. by yourself is kind of a chore because. uh you know as a squadron goes they have. you know airlift tanker bring all the. people the pilots fly in the extra. Pilots just fly in the airlift whatever. it may be and you all just arrive and. get get it spun up and start operating. um but all that I did is I had orders uh. to. Bam and um and I had to figure out how.

to get there once I got in theater so. where were you headed uh I was headed to. baram from Alaska so I finally that's. where you were going in theater yeah. okay yeah that was my final destination. so uh I get to like I think it was uh. Manis is that right so uh it was like. one of the staging bases uh back in the. day and like everywhere I stop along. this way along this journey I'm like I. go find the kitchen and like refreeze.

this giant ass pain that I'm bringing. with me. now yeah so uh and like I get stuck. Midway like they just didn't have any. airlift going in at that time so I'm. like spin all my days at the terminal. waiting to get there and uh I finally I. finally make it to balram and uh I show. up and I'm like I'm exhausted like I. haven't slept I haven't got a good. night's sleep since I left I'm like pale.

bloodshot eyes like I just kind of like. straggling with my cooler and I'm like. ah I made it like like I'm. here and uh the guy at the duty desk a. guy named uh Neo uh he he looks at me. he's like oh you're that you're that new. guy um he's like hey I got a job for you. uh we need you to uh go do a maintenance. engine run and um I'm going like well.

I've never done that particular check in. the A10 like what is it and he's like oh. it's it's easy like you'll be fine just. follow the checklist and then I'm like. I'm a former crew chief I should should. be able to figure it out right and uh so. I haven't even been in theater like an. hour and I'm just grabb my helmet and I. walk out to the to the airplane to go. help him out do this this maintenance. engine. run and some crew chief walks out of the.

crew chief Shack and he looks like he's. like 12 years old okay this guy is super. young and I uh and I talked to him and. he's like yeah I've never done this. particular check either and uh he's like. but my NCO told me that I'd be fine if. we just run the checklist so that should. have been my red flag to like go in and. and say tell them this is not a good. idea uh but we press on of course and so. um we're working our way through this.

checklist which neither of us really. understood okay and there it comes to. this point in the checklist when you. test these engine Governors okay so they. have a system in the A10 where you can. throw the fuel flow switches and get. excess thrust for an emergency situation. and so so what that does is it basically. disables the engine temp Governors so it. increases the thrust by like 20% okay. so um there's a whole bunch of things.

you're supposed to do which I understand. now before you run this check to make. sure you're in a safe position and uh. and um nothing bad happens uh which we. did not do so we were not we shouldn't. have actually been doing this uh come to. find out so uh he said say the next. thing you do is like push the throttles. up to. Max then engage the fuel flow switches. they'll snap back into normal range and.

then bring the throttles to idle and I'm. and I'm like that's like an awful lot of. thrust here on the ground just in. parking so I have them read it to me. again and we talk about it and I go okay. I'm going to do it and I'm just going to. be really fast okay so like cuz I know. this is going to this engine temperature. is going to rise rapidly and as long as. I get it quickly we should should be. fine I mean it's in the checklist right.

so uh so mind you I haven't even met the. Commander in person uh I just walked. into the Squadron and here I am um uh. doing this check that I had never had. previously so I get ready to go I push. the throttles all the way to Max I'm. trying to be slow and deliberate about. it and then engine temps just Spike. faster than I had ever seen because I. never pushed the throttles up with that. setting and the Jet jumps the chalks.

slides forward and the crew chief has to. like run and dive out of the way and I. almost like I almost killed him holy. and i' had been like I said I'd. been in theater like not at all and so. now I have to um I have to call up to. ground control and request Taxi. back all the way back to parking and I. don't even have a call sign because I. wasn't even planning on flying so I've. been in I've been in theater again I.

just got there I'm making a complete ass. of myself and I'm going I'm thinking to. myself okay like he's okay I didn't hit. the aircraft in front of me and I'm. getting sent home like that's what's. going through my mind I'm getting sent. home on day one of this. deployment holy. so uh anyhow I request taxi back I don't. have a call sign so I'm like uh what's. the tail number I'm like um aircraft uh.

069 request taxi back to parking and. they're like uh aircraft 0 69ine where. are you at I'm like just forward of my. parking. spot like everybody's confused they're. like okay go ahead so I I whip around. Park and uh walk back back into the. Squadron and uh I go back to the duty. desk I'm like where's the commander I. need to talk to him right now like uh. then uh thankfully the commander is like.

one of the the greatest leaders like I. ever had the pleasure to work for in my. career but um he I explained him what. happened and he's just like like what. are you talking about and uh we go out. to the flight line and there's this. giant like Tire. streaks on. and then he's like he like thinks about. it and he's like okay here's what we're. going to do he's like you're going to. brief the Squadron on what happened like.

what went wrong why went wrong and uh. and how to avoid that in the future so I. did that and then uh Q-tips like okay. you can fly in theater but you're flying. with me because I'm not too sure about. this guy yeah so anyhow so I bring that. up because um uh everyone in you know. every every fighter pilot has a call. sign right so uh in the movies a call.

sign something cool right uh in real. life it's something um embarrassing it's. something you screwed up and uh it's. something to make fun of you because. that's more fun so uh so I got the call. sign pork chop because I I porked up a. chop check cuz that was the that's what. they called that particular check cuz. you Cho the throttles back so then I you. know for the rest of my next 20 years. the rest of my career I was uh known as.

pork chop for for that. story so did you mess it up or was that. was it a oh they me mess up the. checklist yeah he would like there was a. variet like most mishaps thankfully it. wasn't didn't become a mishap but it's. like air on top of erir on top of err. and that particular checklist was meant. to be run um One engine at a time while. you're on the runway preparing for. takeoff as a functional check pilot as a.

maintenance pilot what I went on later. to do in my career so I got a um you. know full scope of what you're supposed. to do gotcha but young dumb me of course. just thought we could figure it out so. anyhow lesson there is if you are uh has. to do something that you don't really. understand especially if it involves uh. giant airplanes and Fuel and weapons. just don't do.

it we better off say no welcome to. Afghanistan yeah I legit thought I was. getting sent home on day one cuz if you. screw something up in theater that's the. emmo they send you home y. yeah wow so did you fly that trip yeah. so I went on to fly. uh I flew with some amazing Pilots a lot. of these guys had experience in the Gulf. War um and uh I I was a wingman at this. point so um your role as the wingman is.

to support your flight lead and he's. closely modern in you especially as an. experienced flight lead so yeah that. that deployment was cool I caught in the. tail end of it and um flew on the wing. of some of the best pilots in the Air. Force and got to learn directly from. them how to get the job done any combat. um I never shot the gun on that that uh. deployment. um uh. so wingman is primary role is viz calm.

and lastly Firepower so as my flight. lead would employ I would be in a. position to monitor the situation. there's areas where you can't see. underneath your aircraft so um you. develop tactics to where when he exposes. himself so to speak. you are in position to uh monitor those. threat areas and then call out anyone. shooting at him so I was able to um just.

again be in position to Monitor and. observe and learn really is what I was. doing who were you working with the most. um like on the ground you know it was it. was in ' 06 it was a variety of places I. would say for the most part we were um. working up near the border over like we. called it Nixon's nose on the map but. um um I'm trying to blank on the region. but just up by the Pakistan border where. all the foreign Fighters were starting.

to flow in Coast yeah definitely up in. there and um it was much less of uh I. got to see it as a part of kind of. getting oriented in the airspace but we. weren't going to like Southern. Afghanistan nearly uh that much in that. deployment. did the flight League get any combat. yeah yeah I got to I got to support uh. support some Shooters what units were. you working with the most um I'm not.

sure are you talking about like the. ground units yeah you working with seals. Green Berets so you the way that on that. deployment I worked with conventional. forces mainly and so um um the way that. it worked was is like an inexperienced. guy you're most likely going to fly for. me in the day and um you're going to. just support they call it like xcast a. lot of times it would be just go look.

for like you know uh scan Roots whatever. it may be oh okay look for like mortar. and placements so you're kind of picking. fights not really a fight but you're. taking people out you're reconnaissance. you're waiting you're just Airborne to. wait to resp respond to a troops in. contact okay so like that and that. deployment was the first time that I you. get the call you know like you hear the. mic key on the radio you hear the kind.

of scared voice you hear the the gun. fire and then you realize like oh damn. like this is what we're trained to do. you know so it was a lot of conventional. forces uh again I didn't fly at night on. that deployment but just like hey this. convoys being engaged from this Hillside. or whatever and they're um stuck here or. whatever and they're shooting it out and.

go try to find and fix and Target that. enemy position so a lot of stuff like. that well let's talk. about let's I mean what did it feel like. for you being on your first real world. mission operation again it's just. another thing of like this is uh I can't. believe this is happening you know. you're like seeing Roberts Ridge you. know you're seeing uh Tor Bora you're. seeing all these places you know so now.

we're you know several years after. 911 and then you're seeing it with your. own eyes man you know and you're you. know you're doing what you've been. trained to do which is support the guys. on the ground so it felt really good to. um you know you could help them break. contact just by your presence so they're. in a gunfight they may even be taking. casualties and you show up and they. break contact because you're there and. they're able to get them out you know or.

you're able to provide cover for kazac. or whatever needs to be done so you know. and you just start realizing the reality. of the situation too you see the uh. losses having the ramp. ceremonies um you know the base getting. targeted. uh with indirect fire and you're just. like wow like this is actually happening. this is not just something that been. training for we're actually doing it and.

I actually uh I loved being deployed. because you know no paperwork no grade. sheets the briefs were very truncated. you know they kept them short and sweet. all about what you're going to do that. day and uh it was just all about flying. are you guys up there every day um. as a pilot so uh no you're not up there. every day maybe every other day and it. just really depends on your role in the. Squadron so like every pilot has an. extra Duty so like as a new wingman I'm.

working in the mission planning cell so. I'm building all the products for when. I'm not flying I'm building all the. products for people who are flying so. they can wake up show up you've got. their DTC which is just like a cartridge. with all their different point point of. interest you can upload that information. into your your system so you're getting. all everything ready for their mission. you're getting their mission data cards. ready uh their fuel plan and just.

everything all dialed in so when the. pilot show up you just hand them all. their stuff so all they have to do is. kind of look it over talk to their. wingman about what they're doing that. day and then go fly so is there. different uh how do I say this is there. is there are there A10 Pilots that are. attached to Conventional units and A10. Pilots that are attached to Socom and. A10 A10 Pilots attached to jck. and for the yeah not um not and it.

changed throughout as the war went on MH. so um on that first deployment there. were like the most experienced Pilots. kind of like our weapons officers and. some of their hand selected guys that. were also like in instructors or for. ship flight leads like very experienced. and they flew like all the night. missions like you know all the. pre-planned um supports for the raids.

and things like that oh okay yeah and. then um and then everybody else just. flew the line mean okay so one's kind of. like would would I be correct if I said. one is kind of like a. loitering like a like like there's. conventional units out and you're just. loitering waiting for something waiting. for a need yeah exactly you're trying to. be. proactive got to find those threats but.

you're essentially there to respond to. anyone who takes contact in theater and. then for the other guys then they would. like they're in they're in the in the. they're in the like a uh a seal task. units briefing yeah so that's how it was. uh early in the war so um and then they. would basically brief up like the entire. op you know and be a part of it and. there would be like specific guys.

assigned to that okay role that were. like I said very experienced but then. like when I was there in. 2014 um there was it had changed quite a. bit and it was like Hey if you're combat. ready and you're. on the you know your mission overlaps. with your with this Mission you're. flying that so it was a kind of a. different everyone was prepared for it. because by that time the squadrons had. evolved kind of meet the needs downrange.

gotta so then um if you're a fully. qualified combat ready wingman you need. to be ready for that mission so it would. be uh whoever was scheduled at that time. would be a part of that mission okay. interesting interesting so you took so. what happened after that deployment uh. so go back to uh Alon Air Force Base in. Fairbanks and uh just go back to like.

life of a normal A10 pilot which is just. training essentially so going to Flags. in uh Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas. uh lots of lots of travel and just some. of the best flying I ever had in my life. I mean like the airspace and Alaska is. just unbelievable you're you know I it. was it was really um really pretty wild. cuz now I've got you know some more. experience under my belt I'm Flying.

Without uh this that immediate oversight. I get my Ford air controller. qualification quickly after that. deployment so I mean it was it was. incredible uh so Ford air controller is. um it's another qualification for a A10. pilot so what that mission is is uh are. you familiar with like a jtac yeah like. um or tacp or whatever so you guys go. through a a jtac course yeah so you.

become uh qualified to give clearance to. release ordinance from the air okay so. uh and this goes way back you know they. really um developed this during Vietnam. with like the o10s and then uh the F100. fast facts but so yeah you're you're. going out there uh checking in with the. guys on the ground getting everything. sorted finding the targets building the. nine lines then bringing in support. Fighters and you're flying this single.

ship a lot of the times maybe a wingman. um and then getting their eyes on and. flowing them in getting them to uh. destroy the targets and then flow out. and so you can uh just orchestrate this. giant Symphony of Destruction would you. real quick. cuz there's going to be a lot of people. in the audience that don't know what a. jtac or a tacp is could you describe. that yeah so they're like Air Force guys. who are embedded with army units and.

they are the air experts so what they do. is um they kind of provide that common. language between the guys on the ground. and the guys in the air and um so. they're supposed to be competent in both. worlds so they can get your On Target. and um uh give you clearance to release. ordinance in the ground Commander's. battle space so is does that uh does. that make sense makes perfect sense it's.

it's a for the yeah it's a or like with. us in a Seal Team it would be a seal. that's that's a communicator that's. trained to talk to you guys you know and. um I I guess they know I didn't go to. jtac or tacp or anything but I employed. for a seal jtac once and like I I was. like Blown Away by those guys this is a. in a good way or a bad way no it was. good like the guy what what uh stood out.

to me is there in this like running. gunfight and he sent me a perfect n line. like what he was like shooting with one. hand and talking on the radio and. running and and sent me a nin Line Damn. could you see it happening yeah I was. watching him man that's like this guy is. a badass like what was that up I don't. remember like so a lot of a lot of our. um a lot of our like engagements there. it's it's so different than when you.

hear them tell the stories of the ground. Ops where it's like it's like buildup. and then um and then execution and then. this or that goes wrong and then uh they. make it back and then the debrief or. whatever it is uh a lot of ours is just. we're out there flying xcast. and there's multiple oh sorry uh like. alert for close hair support meaning. you're just you don't have any specific. tasking you're loitering you're. loitering you're waiting for something. to happen and then you get the call and.

you just go to it so I might not know. the full depth of of the operation gotta. I just know that this team is in a. running gunfight and they want some 30. mm on that on that enemy like PKM. position you know so that's that's what. a lot of our engagements looked like. interesting very. interesting man I um I'm sorry I lost. where were we're back home Fairbanks.

yeah so it was just one of the best. times of my life so I'm like I'm just. flying my ass off I think I look at my. log book I have some months where I was. getting like 21 sorties in a month which. is flying almost every day damn so I'm. just I'm just flying my ass off I'm. getting much better you know the job of. being an A10 pilot great friends um just. like seeing the most amazing sites like. flying in the Alaska range the I mean.

that's got to be incredible it's so cool. we had this giant map of the entire. state of Alaska and if you ever saw like. a herd of like Caribou uh you know you. go plotted on the map and put the date. so we just had like um just had the. entire State like dialed in you know. you're like Dam that's cool it was. awesome you know there like they always. say there's nothing like your first. Fighter Squadron there's you'll there. it's something about being brand new in. that first exposure to this new world.

and uh and it it lived up to everything. I had hoped. for where do you go from here so from. there I went to Korea So Korea Korea yep. why did you go to Korea um there's a. permanent BAS case uh of permanently. assigned Squadron of a10s at Osan. Airbase so it's just a one-year tour and. um and uh it's just normal part of an.

A10 pilot progression you know go bang. out a year. Korea and from there and then from Korea. yeah oh well uh there's some noteworthy. in Korea oh is there well a little bit I. mean So Korea is like um sorry I meant I. I you made it kind of sound like a like. a just fly through Korea yeah like a. some type of career development just to. check no I was flying out there okay I'm.

sorry yeah no worries it it's just. there's like five active duty a 10. squadrons at the time one of them was. Korea okay so if you want to stay in the. jet you got to volunteer for Korea so. like people enjoy it but it's not like a. choice assignment so you finish up a. normal you know. like Alaska some State Side go do a year. of Korea and then come back to the. community something else but anyhow so I. do a year out at uh Osan and um I'm.

again I'm I'm uh now like a first. lieutenant and I'm flying like flying. like crazy and this is when I first. started having like back and neck issues. from uh a lot of from wrestling and. training hard and skateboarding and all. that stuff it's it's like I always had. like issues even before I uh join the. military yeah and then it's just like. all these sorties with all these gear.

I'm starting to like have these symptoms. that I'm yeah trying to deal with before. before you can you just get in CU I. that's something i' never thought of. when you were when we were talking to. breakfast this morning is the. the like the physical stuff that you. guys deal with inside that cockpit I I. mean I had no idea yeah so um you know. the human body is very resilient and it. adapts to a lot of different stressors.

but you know we've you know we're. basically built to like run jump lift. hinge press there's all these movements. that the human body is designed to do. something that's not designed to do is. just be smooshed over and over again you. know year after year so uh most every. fighter pilot ends up with some you know. back and neck issues if they've been in. the jet for a period of time so um I had. some neck and back issues before I.

joined even they were nothing to speak. of but it would just be like oh threw my. back out and missed a tournament or. whatever it may be but now you know. you're wearing the. helmet um later you're wearing the. helmet mounted queuing system which it. has these electronics and a monocle over. your eye so you can see things on the. data link when you look over the rail. and down on the ground but all this adds. weight to the helmet you know you have a. visor at night you have the night vision. goggles and all the brackets and stuff.

that go for those attachments so you're. adding a lot of weight to to your nugget. you know and then now the demands of. flying is you're constantly uh under G. so you're um you know say your I don't. know what it what it weighs but say your. 10B helmet 7 GS now weighs 70 lb. yeah and if you're flying 20 sorties a. month um and you've already have back. and neck issues and now you're pulling.

you know hard on the aircraft off Target. over and over again you're looking. behind you so you're you're twisted and. then you're being compressed it just. it's going to bring out any issues there. so um the short of my career assignment. is I'm uh Trucking along flying um. flying non-stop there there's exercises. and I'm having a great time but I'm. starting to get like numbness in my. hands starting to kind of lock up and. like the number one rule of fighter.

pilots is you never talk to a flight. doctor you know because you don't want. to lose your flight status so I'm anyhow. so that assignment um I'm like halfway. through and one morning I'm getting. ready to fly I go to tie my boot and I'm. literally just stuck in position I'm. like I I'm complet completely locked up. I can't move um and I'm like I can't I. can't fly today so pull myself off the. schedule uh talked to the commander and. he's like he's like man you're going to.

have to get this checked out so uh go to. flight dock get a scan and they're like. oh yeah you've got like terrible. degenerative discs and you've got all. these issues and uh I think at that time. he said something about if I. eject it's going to cause all these. problems so um that basically right. there was grounded from flying the hog. about halfway through that.

assignment so now I'm sitting there. going okay I you know was doing exactly. what I wanted to do and now I'm not sure. if I'm going to be able to fly an. ejection seed aircraft. again so that had to be pretty. devastating yeah talk about going from a. high to a low you know yeah and you're. like what's what am I going to go be. like a logistics. officer I still have a 10year pilot. training commitment and I'm like I don't.

know four years into it or whatever it. was and uh so yeah it just went from. where I felt like the ultimate High. being on just you know you start to. build up your um so many things came. down to luck and timing but up to that. point everything had worked out exactly. as I had hoped so you just start to. think that that's how the the world is. just going to bend to your favor on. everything and then all of a sudden it's.

just all it's all gone you know so um so. then I had a choice is to uh they're. like this is not going to be a. short-term thing so um you're not. permanently disqualified but uh you're. disqualified for now from flying fighter. aircraft basically anything with an. ejection seat so they're like you got to. figure out uh what you want to. do and um at that time they um needed.

people to go fly like small ISR aircraft. for uh ASO so Air Force Special. Operations Command um but I was told if. you do that you will never come back to. the A10 because uh it's a different. major command. and it's a one-way Street you're not. going to go to ASO and then come back to. air combat command it just doesn't work. that. way and so alternatively they said you. can take this assignment to Vegas flying.

the. mq9 uh doing the unmanned stuff so is. that the Predator uh the reaper so the. follow on to the Predator so uh that's. what I chose to do so um finished up my. year in Korea so that's not afo or that. they have uh I'll just um I'll leave it. at there are multiple you know mcoms.

that fly these airplanes and so uh I. flew air combat command. mq9 essentially doing um the same. Mission I was doing in the. A10 but instead of do you know who you. were flying for. I was I mean we could get into it I was. flying for pretty. much anything that was going on in. Afghanistan for four years holy six. days a week 12 to 14 hours a day no no I.

didn't I was flying for I was doing uh. Air Force missions so okay yeah so um. does the agency have their. own do you not want to talk about this. yeah I don't I watched a lot of kill TV. at the agency. I wonder if you were in the control room. yeah. um maybe maybe not. huh GL do that so yeah I it just it's.

funny I described this like they're like. what was it like to go from the A10 to. the. mq9 and uh I was like. well like one it was devastating and two. uh was what I realized was um it was a. lot it was very. similar just strip away everything that. I liked about flying and being an Air. Force officer and pilot so you don't get.

to fly you don't get to shoot the gun. you don't get to smell the gun gas in. the cockpit uh all your former. friends treat you like you have some. communicable disease because they don't. want to catch whatever you had they. got they for whatever you know fate or. what however you ended up uh you know. here flying these unmanned aircraft. because at that time they were severely. undermanned and they were just randomly. grabbing people from all over the Air.

Force and sending them there so yeah it. was just like it was pretty it was like. at first it was very devastating. miserable. um and then I kind of so is it that is. it that the adrenaline's gone yeah is. that what is and it you like when you. are flying the. A10 like just stepping out the aircraft. out to the aircraft like you've got the. helmet bag over your shoulder you see.

the Jets the the sun's beating on your. skin like you like and then you're. you're in the airplane that the canopy's. up you're you're just looking around as. you taxi out and get ready to fly like. you just feel like a badass yeah you. feel like King Kong and you're just. you're you know in theory you're hoping. to there's a gunfight so you can show up. and just wreck shop right like that's. the mentality mhm and then you go from. that to it's like the opposite species.

now you're like this cave dweller that. lives. underground you know it's like dark and. you're staring at computer screens and. uh there's nothing cool about it there's. nothing fun there's nothing glorious or. glamorous like it's just work you know. yeah it just Stripped Away everything. that I enjoyed about flying and you. still have the tasks but that's it damn. but you know I quickly realized like so.

in the 18 Community we talk about it's. all about the guy on the ground it's all. about the guy on the ground like it's. not about you it's about the guy on the. ground and I realized that this was an. opportunity to prove to myself that I. actually believe in that because at that. point it's not about you at all and but. you I was like I still have this this. tool and I'm still in the same stack I. was talking to my buddies on the radio I.

was hearing some of the you know all the. same call signs wow from when I was in. theater and just now I'm um controlling. this aircraft remotely from. Vegas you know so yeah um and then you. you learn a lot about Insurgency because. you know as an A10 guy say you go. deploy uh deployment started at four. months and they went up to six months. say you do one of those every three.

years you're probably going to have an. instructor Duty staff duty something. like that so you might do a couple of. those throughout your career well now. I'm in theater six days a week in my. brain uh 12 hours a day for 4 years. you know what I mean so you you get. really good at. um actually carrying out that mission of. protecting the guys on the ground man.

that's interesting. because. um not to inject myself here but I. wanted to have this discussion with you. because when I was in. the I left the SEAL Teams in 2006 I did. a one enlistment very short pump but um. our jtacs were. always cuz that that was right around. the time where drones were coming online. uh more and more at least from my. perspective but there was always a lot.

of discussion about having a10s Apaches. and and and our guys would go meet the. Apaches and meet you guys before an. operation and get that face- Toof face. uh kind of personal. relationship building and then as the. war went on and more and more drones. came. online it was there was always a big. fear like we don't have we don't have. that personal relationship where it's.

where we just met Dale you know and he. knows like oh that's Shawn and his. team on the ground down there that are. getting the knocked out of them you. know and and when it came to drones it. was we lost the personal touch you know. and and I mean what did you what were. your feelings like as a pilot about that. yeah it it was really a mixed bag at the.

time because it became like we called it. the land of the broken toys so you know. you might as your Shield team you might. get a guy who was six months ago an A10. Ford air controller that can speak your. language. can control the stack is going to make. this very easy for you in fact I might. even build you the N line you can read. back to me you know what I mean. um but on the flip side you might get a.

guy who has been flying the awax for 10. years who never upgraded to aircraft. Commander because they weren't quite. sure of his capabilities they didn't. know what to do with him so they're like. hey let's let's send him to uh let's. send them to this unmanned. community and they just needed so many. people I mean they were sending um they. would just send out a requirement to. fighter squadrons and just say you will.

send us three pilots on this next vml. and or even right now because it was. such a high demand asset so everybody. was just throwing bodies at this program. and yeah so the the product at that time. especially was just varied widely and so. um what I felt like my responsibility. was was to do everything in my power to.

ensure that myself and everybody around. me so my Squadron um was as capable as. possible and we didn't lose track you. know try to kind of instill that same. mindset of like hey this isn't about us. like if you find that ID in place. before the Convoy gets there that's. everyone in that IM going home to their. family instead of just ending up you. know in a pile of frag on the side of.

the road so just trying to get that. mindset um to people that never really. wanted to be a operator it was it was. very tough I mean it's even for you it's. got to be tough to realize the the I. don't know the complexity of the. situation being able to visualize it out. of your cockpit and. see see what's happening on the ground. versus I mean it sounds like you're.

looking through soda straw sounds like. Call of Duty at the the unmanned I mean. it's it's got to be hard to visualize. and have a personal connection and and. realize like those are lives. down there those little I mean white. yeah figures that are moving. around those are those are our people. and I mean is it is it is it it's got to. be weird right yeah I mean it would. there's so many weird aspects to it of.

modern war you know like um being. engaged in a. firefight you know your brain is there. your body is in a freaking shipping. container in the desert you're done and. then 15 minutes later you're home with. wife do you re do you uh do you realize. that the stakes are as high as they are. when you're flying and unmanned I never. forgot that and I I and we'll talk about.

getting back to the A10 which um when I. left the A10 they said you'll have a. chance of getting back this is because. every A10 pilot has to do a career. broadening assignment they're like this. is your they call it Alpha tour they're. like this is your Alpha tour and um you. are welcome back to the community so. we're not ejecting you from the. community which can happen you know. um but then when I got there the. commander is like hey guys like I know.

um they didn't lie but the truth changed. is is what we were told I remember that. line specifically he said now you're one. of. us like get comfortable here this is. your new major weapon system so pork. chop you not A10 pilot you're now an mq9. pilot and that's just a fact so you know. you can cry about it but get over it and. we got a job to do so they they told us. we would not go back this is a new.

they're not treating it like extra duty. this is a new platform and it will need. like permanent party and that's that's. what they told us when we got there so. now I'm sitting there going okay like. I'm I'm done you know like I'm never. getting back to the. and I'm looking at my commitment going. okay I've got like 5 years left or. whatever it was and going okay I'm just. going to finish out and separate at the. end of that time but yeah it was kind of. devastating in that regard um but when.

it came to executing the mission. um I I I just felt like I needed to. throw myself into this job because. um there are like count countless. Americans In Harm's Way and if if we do. our job well if I train the people. around me so they like almost. immediately make me like an instructor. pilot an evaluator pilot uh a flight. Commander so they're like we need.

leadership here we need some supervision. and anyone with any tactical background. uh can needs to step up and fill that. role so um damn that's a big. responsibility yeah so now you're like a. young captain and um and you're just I. mean you there are a lot of weapons. getting sent down range by people who. are not fighter pilots who are not. training to do this uh and making that.

Top Cut every step of the way it's it's. just everybody and they might not even. want to be there um and uh but you know. what like I said it's there's still. Americans In Harm's Way and what and. this is not the tool I'd prefer to be. doing the job in I'd rather be my hog. but this is what they've given me and if. this is uh you know this is what I this. is what I have I'm going to use it to. the best of my my ability and I did that. you know I went there and I.

um I I basically all I did at that. assignment was just work and sleep we. were severely underman undermanned on. the leadership side and I just flew or. sat uh operation supervisor for nearly. four years straight six days a week so. was this was flying an unmanned aircraft. your. first engagement with an an enemy. combatant yep what I. mean can you just can you describe your.

first engagement your first kill so um. we got rolled to a tick so like I was. saying it looked very similar to um uh. the missions that we were doing. downrange in the A10 it was just another. capability you know what I mean like it. was just another option so there's only. the a10s could only go so far and so I'm. Air Force flying Air Force missions. you're just another asset that's. available so I'm doing similar things.

we're like root scanning this and that. we get rolled to a tick a tick is a. troops in contact sorry troops in. contact so we get there's a gunfight and. we were the closest asset and they send. us over there and uh they give us. general you know we do all the things. you do in the hog it's just now you're. remotely connected but you're still on. the radio and now you're looking through. a soda straw of the targeting pod uh. instead of looking over the rail and. having a targeting pod so uh just a.

different asset altogether but uh really. at the end of the day your servicing. targets for Americans so um so that's. what we did so we get rolled two troops. in contact there was like a machine gun. position where they were getting shot. from and they give us General. coordinates of where it's coming from. and we start scanning who's we uh so. this is now a 2ers aircraft okay so you. have a sensor operator that sits next to.

you so in the A10 I'm I'm My Own sensor. operator right I've controlled the. targeting pod now I fly the airplane I. control the weapon systems and the. sensor operator controls the uh the. sensor or the targeting pod if you will. so we you know now so now instead of and. it's insanely frustrating cuz I would. rather do it myself and you're going. okay look here look there look there you. know and the more experien they get. there some of them were awesome and they. would do what you wanted to do before.

you could even say it out loud but yeah. so they just you get to that general. area you start searching and then next. thing you know you find uh you know a. couple guys there was one PKM I still. remember the image there's two guys and. uh they're just like shooting at the. friendlies uh you know they're laying in. a prone position so we get a nine line. um select. gb2 and roll in and uh put a gb12 right.

on the target damn what's a gb12 uh 500. lb laser got a. bomb did you get any satisfaction out of. that yeah I mean I got it's like it's. mixed feelings at it's like I got. satisfaction knowing that uh our guys. made it home like so I didn't have any. kind of moral qualms with it um if it's.

I would much rather physically be there. because it feels kind of like there is a. part of you like there's there's you. know killing at a distance has been. um it's been a a feature of warfare. since the beginning of time since. someone figured out you could throw a. rock at somebody right then Spears then. uh you know. archers you know automatic weapons all. the way to uh you know aircraft and then.

drones so it's just it's just an. advancement in Warfare but yeah you feel. kind of like a coward like taking life. sitting thousands of miles away um but. never thought about that I didn't I. didn't at the time and um how I kind of. framed it to my to my people you know. and to myself was hey we've got a choice. to make this is not morally ambiguous.

because these guys are fighting each. other and um they're actively engaged. against. Americans and it's them or it's our guys. so uh that's an easy choice for me I'm. going to make I'm going to do everything. I can to make sure those Americans come. home safe so again I try to frame it. like it's not about us it's about the. guys on the ground and you know in doing. so uh we became very effective like I.

look back on that four years and it was. probably the most important four years. of my entire career. because the the number of threats that. we neutralized was just it's accountable. I mean things that people never even. knew about like you've killed that many. people I'm saying just the whole. Squadron you know but I wouldn't even. begin to count wow but you're just I.

mean four years straight six days a week. 10 are you killing like every day no you. might you might go months or month. without nothing with you know there's. there's fighting season there's it's. might be quiet for a long period of time. but um it es and flows you know with. like who's the commander like remember. the surge in like 2000 uh was it when uh.

Petraeus took over from a crystal and. brought in all the Marines into South. Afghanistan yeah like it was just. nonstop then you know but then it. quieted down again after that so were. you flying then yeah. every. day you may have I'm sure there's tons. of overlap yeah we got.

uh overrun in a safe house in. lashara and there was like I can't. remember like a hundred Taliban fighters. on the other side of the river deserving. any bells at all yeah right. on uh it was it was gnarly like if you I. mean if. you man that's crazy man it's a. small world does that I. mean can you talk about some more of. these missions let's talk about.

maybe anything that sticks out yeah I. mean you see some dark you know. like one um actually we'll talk about a. mission supporting Marines in southern. Afghanistan during the Sur. you know I'm flying the uh the mq9 we. get roll two troops in. contact and um this is you know it's. it's kind of rural down there but. there's a lot of development you.

know and uh I find the um the enemy. shooting the Marines and again they've. got an automatic weapon and they're just. at the side of there's eight guys and. they're just at a the side of this. um uh it's like this compound you know. all those little everyone has a house. and then this big mud fence around it so. they're on the outside of this big mud. fence and they're just kind of like.

they'd have like one guy leaning around. the corner just wailing uh at the. Marines so I I I see that and. um and they're taking pretty effective. fire like they're we need to serve as. this Target now so uh get a nline decide. to put a Hellfire missile on it um and. swing around so it's like parallel to uh. this wall put the Hellfire right down at.

the very like first point on that wall. where the first person was and then all. of the um uh frag of that missile kind. of bounces off the wall does this like. Vortex and just fires down the wall dust. settles and uh is this is daytime. Mission we switch over to like the. daytime camera and it's just like the. guns go quiet so it was just them. shooting at the Marines and it's just.

like a freaking pile of body parts okay. and that's you know if you've seen W. it's like it's not something completely. uncommon but um. afterwards uh it's kind of quiet you. know and then uh I I see this figure. come out of the adjacent building and it. looks like an old lady she has like a. walking stick and she's you can kind of. see her hunched over and she leaves a. house leaves a compound and she's just.

moving all the parts around and I'm. thinking uh she's probably looking to. see uh if there's any anyone alive. that's what I that was my best guess. seeing uh what was going. on and uh you know nothing nothing. happened to her she the Reigns. eventually sent A team out to go do a. battle damage assessment and uh she went. back in but it just you know you just. see the actual.

real uh impact of war on these people's. lives yeah you know it's. like I don't know we can get into it but. you're going. uh you're looking at the just the. morality of us being there in the first. place now this many years after 9/11. you're like most of these Fighters would. they even know anything about 911 or are. they just fighting the people that are. in their country you know I'm starting.

to ask myself some of these questions. and this uh these you know this woman. these civilians they're just caught in. caught in the crossfire you know so just. something to think. about you know before we get engaged in. these conflicts overseas yeah it's like. what what does this actually look like. on the ground cuz it's it's not a video. game it's not a movie in uh in the real. world it's much uglier much more gray.

area you were thinking that at the time. or is this later I remember being kind. of some of the things I saw just kind of. screwing with my mind a little bit but. it took a lot of time to reflect on it. man that's interesting because I've. always I've heard that and please don't. judge me you know but cuz I'm a ground. guy and I don't know but I've. heard about drone.

Pilots talking about PTSD and and the. impacts of war and stuff and I I never I. mean I'm I'm not going to I never said. anything negative about it but I did. always wonder like how can even be like. it's so far away you're half a world. away and and and does it even that's why. I'm asking you know does it even feel. real there's no personal. connection it feels very real because.

your mind is there um in my experience. again I would I would never discount. anybody's claims yeah of. PTSD but it in my experience it wasn't. the guys that were doing. most of the engagements that were having. those issues gotcha I'm not I'm not. discounting I don't want to say that it. was it was. more curiosity there was there was a lot. of things that happened and you're going.

um it was like pretty quick ticket out. of there anyway. like I'll just leave it what do you mean. yeah so if you um if you didn't want to. do that job whether you're uh an Intel. troop or you just weren't liking the. schedule the lifestyle was pretty. miserable because we were severely. undermanned I see what you're and it was. just kind of.

like again I I I would never point the. finger at any individual but it was well. known within the community that people. would uh have a Escape Route if you will. gotcha it's a ticket out it's a ticket. out yeah is it a ticket out back to the. old unit or is it just a ticket out just. ticket out just yeah you could be like. people would be would just you know I'm. looking at my five-year service. commitment left and um they're like well.

I'm done you know yeah. yeah man this is uh I got to be honest. with it this is just as interesting to. me as the is the A10 stuff I thought it. might be cuz it's uh you see a lot of it. on the the news you hear a lot about it. but um most everything I heard about on. the news I just I feel like it's it's a. lot of things that are false like what. you don't believe the. news like I mean I can't speak to.

every uh unmanned engagement that ever. existed but there's this uh kind of like. this theme of like oh they just use. unmanned assets to Target like civilian. weddings. and like that you know what I mean. like and it's like I never saw anything. like that I mean it was an Air Force. unit supporting the guys on the ground. that's what we did you know like we we.

engaged combatants that were engaging. our guys yeah so like I can't speak to. whatever else ever happened you know in. the history of these unmanned assets but. it was uh it was very clear and our unit. who we were supporting. yeah yeah I mean I. wonder I mean like the. the US Aid worker that got killed during.

the withdrawal that the Biden. Administration told us was was this Isis. Fighters do you remember this yes and uh. there was that was a drone strike. correct yeah and it hit that family. right yeah yeah yeah and that's like um. another lie from the. media yeah that's that's all they do is. lie right yeah and the White. House yeah whatever. um whatever fits the narrative yeah at.

the time is usually what they say do you. think we should have well do you think. we should have been there in. Afghanistan or Iraq I think we had I I. think Iraq no I think there's there's so. many you look at Iraq now and it's like. are are we better off without Saddam. like like strategically Geo. geopolitically so you look at uh Saddam. was basically a counterbalance to.

Iran and we let them kind of go at it. right and it was um it would have kept. Iran from Gaining too much power and uh. now basically Iran controls Iraq so how. can that be seen as a success. it like not to mention all the lives. lost and it was sold on completely. untrue basis of you know. wmds so uh I think that one's a clear no.

and then Afghanistan I mean they did. Harbor uh. Al-Qaeda and. so uh I think that was. justified but I mean. pretty much the war was won by like 2003. yeah and then big army comes in it gets. um turned into this giant Forever War.

that I think was used to help people get. promotions and to make a lot of money. and everyone just said they played their. part they said what they were supposed. to say to the American people when it. was clearly untrue to anyone who was. there. um and uh 20 years later you know they. pull out in shame just this complete. debacle still you know makes me sick to. think about and then we immediately.

shift gears to oh yeah actually the. Taliban wasn't so bad it's these Isis K. guys are the real threat yeah and uh. you're like okay but we've been fighting. these guys for 20 years yeah and now. we're sending them $80 million a week. yeah I don't know if we'll still be. sending that by the time this interview. airs but cuz it's you know in the house. now that now it's on to the Senate to. shut that down but it's.

unbelievable toy you trust our. government at all no any aspect of it no. I think all they do I think something. happens organically or inorganically and. they just look at it how how can we spin. this to. uh further our own interests so so 911. happens and. um then we go into Afghanistan we go. into Iraq I mean you look at like all.

the money that was made M and it's. just I don't know there there's it's. just hard. to articulate the level of like raid. that I have for these people that just. lied to us for so long I mean we all. have friends whose kids you know grew up. without a. dad you know and this was like 10 years.

into the war 15 years in the war abig. Gate 20 years later it's like why like. we all knew anyone who knew anything. about that war knew that the strategy. that they were employing was going. nowhere mhm I mean that was obvious to. the youngest. private and then the fourstar general. goes and briefs Congress and says. everything's great the Ana and the& you. know Afghan National Army National.

Police they're getting up to speed. they're going to be ready to go you know. they basically had the same talking. points for 20 years yeah you get that. you know there's a lot of careerism. because uh you know they're dressing up. like Patton and all these generals but. really they're acting more like empty. suits you know saying whatever it is uh. that kind of the powers that be want. them to say and then they get that that. combat command tour go on get promoted.

and then end up eventually end up at. rathon or on the board of some defense. contractor so you just look at it and. you realize that there were a lot of. interest in that entire War uh that had. nothing to do with what they were. telling the public it's crazy how many. sellouts this country. produces it's a it's. just everybody up there is a.

sellout it's like that fourstar pension. isn't isn't good enough you need more. greed man yeah American Greed it's it's. sad to see hopefully there's I mean even. looking back I mean there's so many. things that you can kind of piece. together like you were talking about. southern Afghanistan we were talking. about southern Afghanistan and the big. and the big push down in lash and. marja and I mean marja was supposed to. be the what the second biggest offensive.

Force. since. fuia. and I remember when Obama came out with. those Roes it was for the for the Marine. infantry at least. was uh because I was at the agency down. there when that was all. happening and I remember those when. those Roes came out they were saying. that if you get shot at and they drop. the and they drop their weapon you're.

not allowed to. engage yeah and at that point it's. like what the are we doing. here like why are you chopping our guys. legs out from under them like you're not. even giving them the wire that's what. I'm saying you know second of all like. it's it makes it impossible for him to. complete the the mission or you you. strip them of all confidence because now.

they're all worried that their Superior. is going to send them to jail if they. dime him out that a guy dropped I mean. what what if he drops his weapon while. you're shooting him you I mean what yeah. I remember I think it was mccristal. who's who gave this speech he's like. it's the bullet you don't fire that will. win the war and it was supposed to be. some like um you know Guru yeah like.

strategy some some. like you know some strategy to a level. that us normal people could never. understand like if that's the case again. why send anyone Outside The Wire yeah oh. well we're going to go do community. engagement it's like okay we're all. dressed up like. Stormtroopers in a. tribal yeah society and we're g to um. turn them into like a Jeffersonian. democracy like this is the dumbest.

I've ever heard and you know I think. they kept trying to build it up like oh. they have a plan there's uh just stay. the course they have a plan and uh. eventually I mean maybe I'm a slow. learner but after like a decade and a. half you're like there is no plan this. is the plan it's just to keep the. contracts going and then uh keep getting. promoted it's sad man it's uh our.

standing in the world is. just I feel like it's completely. shot I think people I think other. countries just protect just. lie they they don't want to. challenge because of the repercussions. because we are so powerful and.

and and the rest of the world hates us I. mean I don't I don't even I hate. saying this. but. yeah bad. guys yeah like what what good was done. from that. like I mean. we're the people were fighting over. there again like I think the vast. majority of them had no concept of. 911 and like a lot of them were like.

teenagers pulled from madrassas in. Pakistan that were given you know five. bucks and some opum and said hey go put. on this suicide vest and walk into you. know go find someone in uniform and blow. it up it's just it's like I don't know a. lot of these people that just seem to. want us to go to war. everywhere have no actual firsthand. experience of what it what it looks.

like man that makes me so. angry it does yeah and then I couldn't. believe how fast they shifted from the. global war on terror to Ukraine yeah and. I know you know Putin invaded Ukraine. but I also remember when Putin invaded. Crimea in 2014 and it was hardly a new. cycle.

and I call me. suspicious but I I remember thinking. like they're just going to sh like shut. down all these contracts I remember. remember thinking that like there's so. much money being made in. Afghanistan uh I mean I mean I got. invited this is kind of weird I got. invited to the Ron. plant oh really to celebrate the. thousandth laser. Maverick coming off the production line. and because I had F in my 2014.

deployment I had fired um some laser. Mavericks in combat so they're like we. want a combat vet who's fired this. missile in theater to be at the ceremony. so we go there and get a tour of the. facility and um anyhow I just remember. thinking it like after the Afghanistan. thing going there's a lot of I was. actually surprised they did it and I was. like there's a lot of money going all. over the place for these these contracts.

like so are they just going to get shut. down now like is that going to be um are. we shifting gears into some new economy. you know something else going to happen. and then it was like clockwork then the. Ukraine thing hit and then of course. this time unlike 2014 now it's the. biggest thing on the news and it's. something that we need to spend hundreds. of billions of dollars for and then. you're like oh yeah. those all you know not to be a cynic but.

all those contracts are just yeah. Ukraine could have been Ukraine could. have been a simple real estate. purchase those people didn't want to be. a part of that anyways yeah Russia. wanted it that could have been a very. simple real estate. transaction seems like that's not what. they wanted yeah they wanted it to drag. out yeah I wonder how long it will drag. out I wonder who's going to.

dismantle what we know today is the us. because getting that's one of the new. things that I want to do with the show. is start going around and getting the. perspective of us from the rest of the. world not what the media tells. us I think that would be very. interesting yeah and it what's crazy. is I rarely meet people in real life who.

think we should be involved all over the. world and I don't know maybe that's my. bubble but for some reason no matter who. we vote for we get like Liz Cheney's. foreign policy yeah there's like no way. out of it. like it's not the I don't think it's the. American people driving this they. consistently try to vote their way out. of these forever Wars I mean.

Obama 2008 campaign ran on you know. getting out of these stupid. Wars Trump ran on getting out of the. wars you know it's. like everybody runs on disengagement. because that's what the that's I think. what most people want uh but it just. never. happens well that's depressing but uh. let's get let's get let's get back to.

your career. so you do four years at the what was the. program called um I was at the uh 42nd. attack Squadron okay just flying mq9 in. Vegas were you just flying Afghanistan. or were you flying Yemen uh just. Afghanistan um I did another deployment. to Afghanistan during that time and um. yeah I mean I learned a lot about. Insurgency during that tour and as I got.

back to the A10 I think it helped me. quite a bit in in kind of unexpected. ways but if you're if you're staring at. the Battle space and on the radio for. four years straight you're going to see. and learn a lot about the how the enemy. operates their. behavior I got to the point where I. could see the way somebody was. walking and the way like their tunic. laid over their arm be like that guy's.

got an AK and it's like if you're. looking at it right now it would look. like a little pixel poking up maybe you. know and you're like I can just tell. he's not walking like a civilian you. watch watch sure enough as soon as he. gets a chance pulls it out starts to. take a shot at friendlies so you you got. you got really good at studying the. enemy and and just looking at their. normal like patterns of life and things. that just did not make sense so you just.

yeah see that stuff report it up to the. guy you know the guys on the ground and. I know for a fact that um we saved just. Untold American lives you know during. that tour so no you know no regrets I. guess that's what God had in store for. me you very likely saved my ass but. um man that's uh that's interesting I. it's really that stuff is just really.

interesting cuz I've. never talked to a drone pilot at least. not knowingly yeah so and I've always. had these questions about you know. what's what's I mean what's it like to. to kill from. thousands and thousands I mean half a. world away you know and. and you described it perfectly so thank. you but on that note let's take a break. and then when we get back we'll pick up. uh back at the A10.

absolutely join me and my special guests. for the next behindth scenes experience. exclusively available on vigilance lead. patreon the behind the-scenes footage is. raw and uncut this is as close to the. set as you can possibly get you can. expect anything from off-topic. conversations Studio tours the final. moments before the interview starts and. everything in between the behind. the-scenes content is constantly. evolving and will continue to bring you.

more as we grow you can gain access for. just $15 a month exclusively at. vigilance Elite. patreon I know everybody out there has. to. be just as frustrated as I am when it. comes to the BS and the rhetoric that. the mainstream media continuously tries. to force feed us and I also know how. frustrating it can be to try to find. some type of a reliable news source it's. getting really hard to find the truth.

and what's going on in the country and. in the world and so one thing we've done. here at Shan Ryan Show is we are. developing our. newsletter and the first contributor to. the newsletter that we have is a woman. former CIA targeter some of you may know. her as Sarah Adams call sign super bad. she's made two different appearances. here on the Sha Ryan Show and some of. the stuff that she has uncovered and. broke on this show is just.

absolutely. mindblowing and so I've asked her if she. would contribute to the newsletter and. give us a weekly intelligence brief so. it's going to be all things terrorists. how terrorists are coming up through the. southern border how they're entering the. country how they're traveling what these. different terrorist organizations. throughout the world are up to and. here's the best part the newsletter is. actually free we're not going to spam. you it's about one newsletter a week.

maybe two if we release two shows the. only other thing that's going to be in. there besides the Intel brief is if we. have a new product or something like. that. but like I said it's a free CIA. intelligence brief sign up links in the. description or in the comments we'll see. you in the. newsletter all right Dale we're back. from the break what were we talking of. do you remember it's all blending in.

yeah more corruption but uh it'll come. to. me. so uh but anyways back to your. story so we wrapped up the a M9 tour or. M9 mq9 mq9 excuse me fascinating stuff. by the way thank you for sharing that. and um so you're going back to rotation. with the A10 yeah so um that whole time.

I was flying the. mq9 uh they were saying you're never. going back and uh I just kind of didn't. accept that and. um again I think God was looking out for. me again because um as I approached the. end of that tour they were going to send. me to the mq9 schoolhouse to be an. instructor and uh I've never been one to. hold my true thoughts you know and I. just told my commander uh like I.

absolutely do not want to do that I want. to get back to the A10 you know that. whole time I'm in uh in Vegas probably. the first time in my life I'm giv my. body a rest because. you know high school wrestling at a high. level is really tough on your body. cutting weight uh training really hard. then two years of Collegiate. wrestling and then uh into flying and it. was.

just you know it was just nice to get a. a a break physically and I did physical. therapy I had some sort of um all. different kind of shots and stuff like. spinal spinal shots and I started. feeling much better like I was getting. the feeling back in my hands and stuff. and anyhow um so he's like well like you. got to get a waver uh to get back to the. hog a medical waiver and this and that. but he wasn't completely like closed. down to it and um I think it made a big.

impact that I gave my all during that. assignment if I had just you know phoned. it in there would have been zero chance. but. I. mean as far I did everything I could do. during that four years to contribute to. the mission and and he knew it and he. wanted to get me what I wanted uh after. that so um anyhow went through the.

medical process and uh they granted me a. waiver to return to fly and um my former. director of Ops from Alaska is now the. wing Commander at an A10 base and so I'm. just like throwing hail mares I'm like. Hey sir trying to get back to the. A10 uh if there's any chance like if. there's any spot for me anywhere like I. will I will be the you know Squadron.

cleaning guy like I will do any extra. Duty I will deploy immediately like. whatever you need I I will you'll never. hear a complaint for me I just want to. get back to the hog and um they like. made an except I and let me go back to. the A10 and so uh I didn't have to go be. an instructor in the mq9 I made it back. to the hog so from there I went to uh. back to Tucson and went to the Bulldogs. at The 354th Fighter Squadron and just.

kind of try to pick up where I left. off what was it like being back it was. awesome you know like I was was it like. riding a bike I I got back into it. quicker than than I would would have. thought I went through a retraining. course and it was just awesome because. now I'm going through something similar. to like the initial qualification but I. had like several years experience flying. the A10 so it was it was not difficult. had anything changed new technology yeah.

so I had flown the a10a model when I had. left and it was all like steam gauges in. the jet like just looked like a Cessna. you would fly like an old Cessna you. know like you had the weapons control. panel where you literally like analog. scroll in like what weapon you wanted. how many um you know you press the. button the the uh the timing for the. release sequence like it was all all. analog and while I was gone they had.

upgraded to the a10c model and. everything was digital so now you have. like these. multi-function. displays GPS with like moving map. displays uh some new weapons had come. online that I hadn't been trained on but. you know flying the jet doing the. mission and then all the avionics were. very intuitive so I picked it up pretty. quick and uh yeah from there. um I did a couple years in the Squadron.

is you know up start upgrading again so. get my uh flight lead for ship flight. lead uh qualification eventually. upgraded to uh instructor and evaluator. so just kind of like caught up on the. time I had missed when I was. gone then uh. um first daughter is born around this. time too so now I'm back in the jet and. the family's growing so it was uh it was.

similar to my first assignment and that. it just nothing but fond memories you. know it was it was almost like I had. another shot at a first assignment and. uh it yeah it was fantastic what how see. you had your daughter how did you meet. your wife okay yeah so I've known uh. Amanda since the fourth grade so we. since fourth grade yeah uh we grew up. together you know I was moving around a. bunch so we kind of lost lost contact um.

but then when I was in uh. Alaska um she's she's amazing she's uh. has a master's degree in chemistry from. vanderbelt and she had gotten a job. teaching in the Bay Area. and um we were uh we were closing down. the Squadron like that Squadron I was at. in Alaska was was shutting the doors and. so we were taking all all of our Jets. and transferring them to this base in uh. Utah that um uh refurbishes them and.

then was going to send them out to other. units anyhow so I'm flying jets back to. the uh the Continental us fairly. frequently by myself like single. Singleton and then I'm rooting all my. flights with the longest delays possible. in the Bay Area where she was. so so I could have an excuse to to go. see her and meet up with her and stuff. so I'd be like yeah um I've got a.

22-hour layover in the bay she's like. well that sounds like the worst flight. ever like a red eye and then yeah anyhow. so I kept doing that and we we just um. um. we just hit it off again you know kind. of reconnected since high school then uh. um she came out to Korea because she was. teaching chemistry at the time so she. came out there for the summer and then. uh got married in Vegas so quick.

background on my uh lovely bride and you. guys have been married for how long uh. 15 years now. congratulations yeah yeah it's it's. awesome I I did not love being single. like being married is amazing so with. and she's been through all the. deployments or a lot of deployments yeah. she's she's uh yeah we were we started. talking when I just got back from my. first deployment in Alaska. okay so Switching gears and then we'll.

get back to ATM what do you think is the. secret to a successful. marriage. um that's a good. question um I think you. know like it's being married is really. easy before you have kids right so just. found that. out so yeah when like we just had so. much fun together you know like it to me. being married to her was is just I love.

it like she's I'm so happy with her like. uh we're just a good team you know what. I mean like uh I'm like wow I'm really. excited that she likes me enough to. marry. me like one of those situations you know. like she's she's beautiful smart loyal. we grew up in the same place you know so. have shared background and so being. married to her I would say is easy and. then the kids come along you know and.

neither of my girls slept at all for. like two years. straight like just hard sleepers like. and we were so paranoid we're like. following all the rules like oh no no. co-s sleeping and she they have to be on. their back they can't be on their side. or you know whatever it is we're like. freaked out following all the rules now. if we could go back we probably wouldn't. follow none of those. rules it was just too hard like it just. it was hard so.

um int introducing kids definitely adds. challenges because now all your focus is. on for me it was like my career and then. my kids and then my wife is really what. was happening and uh you know I think if. your wife is unhappy she might not. necessarily tell you but you can feel it. you know and it's like when you're. working 70 hours a week and you're uh. and then you have kids then you're not. sleeping and then any spare time is you.

know if you're like doing anything else. and you know you're kind of not putting. your family uh you're not prioritizing. correctly which we can get to later. about what I'm doing now but um yeah I. think we definitely had struggles when. I'm starting to deploy again you know we. have kids and even when you're home. station in a Fighter Squadron you might. go TDY a temporary Duty like a training.

exercise you might be leaving 10 times a. year and those training workups might be. two weeks three weeks long so it's just. it's a demanding career field obviously. but uh to so to wrap this up what makes. a happy marriage like I think you have. to rep prioritize should be wife first. and then kids and then um and then every. you know your kids are going to be as. happy as possible if you and your wife. are getting along yeah so if you're.

getting along with your wife. everything's going to fall into place. after that so it's just being deliberate. and I still work at that but it's like. okay we're going to go on a date we're. going to spend time with just you and I. no. distractions and uh try to do that. regularly just make make that time a. priority and then she'll feel that you. care about her and you're then she'll be. happy and your life will be good that's. great advice man thank you thank you and. uh congratulations on 15 years that's is.

there a high divorce rate in the as a. pilot I mean I don't know the stats but. from anecdotally yes yeah I would say I. would I could see that it's brutal and. that that's why I love her so much too. like she was just Rock Solid through my. entire career and supported me 100% so. it's like she deserves that yeah. attention you know yeah well back to the. A10 yeah so do you deploy again as an.

A10 pilot yeah so now been back for uh a. good period of time couple years and um. I really wanted to get back in the fight. um you know I deployed as a young. wingman again and just kind of been to. some troops in contact and some some uh. some interesting situations but really. not fully engaged you know then deployed. in the mq9 so it's like I really want to. get in the mix in the hog again and so.

uh I was able to jump in on a um a. deployment with uh The 303d Fighter. Squadron it's a reserve unit out of. Whitman Air Force Base in Missouri and. um they were going to. Afghanistan and they had like two empty. billets that they wanted active duty to. fill and so I saw that and I. volunteered and so uh got to jump back. in on another deployment in.

2014 and uh yeah that trip was was. incredible because that unit was highly. experienced so being a reserve unit they. they're full of like just some of the. most experienced pilots in the Air Force. like some of them had been there for. decades like I flew with uh a guy Carl. Marx has like more 8 10 hours than. anyone ever will no one will ever catch. him it's like 7,000 hours wow and he's.

like he's a machine he destroyed I want. to say 27 armor pieces in the first Gulf. War as a lieutenant damn and then flew. like the entire G watt you know and he's. still flying right now he'll be probably. the last one to climb off the ladder. when they're done damn but yeah so I'm. flying with these just incredible. credible people in Afghanistan that um. that 2014. deployment and uh yeah it was just a it.

just a great trip just did the mission. flew for like seven months did nothing. but fly and flight lead yeah yep I was a. flight lead now and uh yeah I'm just. engagements more engagements yeah now I. finally get to um do the job in the hog. let's talk about that let's talk. about let's talk about your first kill. in in the A10 we talked about it in the. Drone let's talk about it here okay so.

we're um we're supporting this uh this. troops in contact over by I want to say. fob right again up in North uh um. forgive me Northeastern Afghanistan kind. of north of Nixon's nose on on the. border and. um so we report to this tick check in. give them our load out our time on. station and start getting the dope on on.

what's going on in the ground situation. and as soon as as soon as we um show up. there's like these uh these little birds. you know the um or sorry not little. birds the uh uh kaiowas you know those. those they shoot like they're tiny. little helicopters and the the pilots. are such badasses like and so they're. like they're out of Munitions and. they're like shooting it out are you. serious yeah they're shooting they're in.

like M4 out the door they're like. straight up Cowboys they're in a. firefight like I'm I'm overhead watching. these guys. like shoot it out and he's like like. shooting is right his his uh you know. mag dumping out the door at this enemy. fighting position and uh we get him on. the horn and I'm like oh dude I'm going. to put a 500 lb bomb right right on it. right but I got to get them to move.

away so and they're like they're not. having it cuz they're like they're just. shooting it out with these guys man. that's that's what they're that's what. they want to do that's what they wanted. to do I mean I I have so much respect. for those guys like they just they just. get in the mix but anyway finally it was. real basic I um I fixed the enemy. position uh got them outside of the bomb.

frag range so like a safe distance and. they just came in medium altitude and. put a 500 lb bomb and silence the uh. Silence of guns I bet that would do it. yeah yeah and then uh there were there. were quite a few few more Employments on. that that trip it was pretty active at. that time how I mean how did that. feel compared. to the. Drone yeah and it's just. like uh the like I said the tasks were.

very similar like hey you got to get in. bomb range you got to be flying a. specific heading and air speed you got. to get in the. window you know pickle the bomb off and. lays it into the target so the tasks. were very similar but the um uh in this. case it was a GPS guided bomb so it just. went to the coordinates but uh but it. just when you're physically there in the. firefight it it makes a difference yeah.

it. just you know you feel like King Kong. again you're like I can't you you just. have all this Firepower at your. fingertips and then uh you know these. guys are harming my guys they're hurting. them and I'm I'm just going to make them. go away you know and that's and you're. just like what do I want to select what. what makes sense for this tactical. situation and uh and then you just do it. and guns go quiet and everyone's. happy what about have you ever have you.

ever flown a mission where you had where. you went. Winchester Winchester for the audience. means out of ammunition I never did in. theater I got I may have gotten pretty. close um I never I've never been in a. situation where I needed bullets I've. gotten close to being Winchester but I. don't think I fully emptied the gun well. let's talk about that specific uh moment. in time yeah so like the all these. situations are very similar like because.

that's basically what we do and in this. case I think it was like we're seeing um. we're kind of out in the middle of. nowhere and we're seeing muzzle flashes. from a tree line but you can't really. pinpoint the. um the point of origin you're just like. I know that that's an enemy position and. they're they're ambushing these. friendlies who are pinned down and um. you might want to like there might. there's a whole variety of factors on. weapon selection like you might not want.

to put a bomb there because of. collateral damage concerns you know. they're um again like there's just so. many factors of what you decide but in. this case we're like let's just strafe. the tree line until these guys can break. contact and keep moving and so wingman. and I just kind of set up like we call. it like a race car pattern uh two ship. and just did multiple passes on this. tree line until uh pretty quickly they.

broke contact and blasted out of there. so yeah this is like more like. suppressive fire at this. point which weapon system do you like. utilizing the most on the A10 um it's. got a the gun the gun yeah and then. second would be Maverick missiles but. the gun is awesome can you talk about. that another. experience yeah um so it was funny I was. flying with uh with.

Carl this Legend and uh and like you. know at this point I'm like I think I'm. a a major he's a lieutenant colonel but. he's just he's such a legend that I'm. like I'm like okay I don't want to. embarrass myself you know so I'm you. know I'm acting like a lieutenant and. then he's like a general officer or. something you know like sir how do you. like your coffee like like hey we get to. we get to fly together uh I just don't I.

I want to um I don't want to lose his. respect you know so he's he's like just. professional all the way down very. little expression here's our mission uh. here's what we're doing I'm flying on. his wing and we're going uh to support. an infill you know and um and it's at. night now and we're out there and he. needs gas so he goes to the tanker and. then this of course this thing just pops. off with him.

gone and he's like damn you porked up. wait for. me H I don't know if he actually said. that but you could tell he was like he's. like where are you at what's going on. like he's just like he's he's getting to. the tanker and wants to get back as as. fast as he can uh cuz he hadn't shot a. laser Maverick yet on that trip and uh. he had had the opportunity to so uh. anyhow I knew that because we had talked.

about it and I'm like I know exactly. what we're going to do like I'm gonna. set up this attack and the ground. Commander requested uh laser Maverick. for this particular Target and uh I just. set it up up to where. um he rolled off the. tanker and then I was wheeled up around. the Target and then he just came in got. a good spot on the laser energy got it. within uh proper range rifled off the.

Maverick and then I provided the. terminal gu terminal guidance and we. crush the Target and then came back. around and strafed the followup targets. together so damn it was like like it was. awesome that's badass man oh and then on. the way back Carl like now it was so. cool cuz now we're like best buddies. he's like pork chob that was. awesome he he dropped the uh the stoic. Warrior for just like just a few.

minutes that's awesome. man yeah so was that your final. deployment yeah that was my final. deployment I uh my daughter was born. like just prior to that so I want to say. she was. like I don't know 4 months old when I. left and um by the time I got back she. was like a year. old and so uh and I volunteered for that. deployment and uh I promised my wife.

like if I get sent you know I'm happy to. go but I won't volunteer like I won't. you know force the issue Chase it yeah. I'm like I've done everything I ever set. out to do in this jet times times 10 you. know so uh so I'm I'm happy with what. I've done and uh yeah so I get back from. that deployment and um I pick up uh my. first instructor assignment uh same.

location which was cool so we didn't. have to move so I moved from the. operational Squadron over uh to the. training Squadron and so now uh serving. as an instructor for the those new. pilots coming straight out of pilot. training so kind of full circle from. from where I started. now how'd that uh I mean were you a. tough. instructor I think I was kind of a Santa. Claus like really I just I don't know I.

I I held the standard because you know. what the Air Force needs is competent. you know proficient A10 Pilots um but. they were I feel like they were pretty. damn good they worked their ass off and. they had been through so much that I. mean maybe I don't know I I didn't feel. like I had to be a hard ass I just had. to uphold the standard so you so when. you went to instructor Duty it was you. were it.

was they've been through all the phases. now it's the A10 Pilots yeah so like I. got to fly with students on their very. first flight in the A10 that has to be. pretty cool to see it was awesome I like. some people scoff at instructor duty but. it was one of my favorite times in the. Air Force like they're just they're so. excited about every Mission I mean some. people you know it's like early in the. phase you're not doing anything. particularly exciting you're just you. know flying around the flag pole getting.

them familiar with the jet but to them. it's exciting it's is brand new so I. thought I thought it was awesome I it it. was very. rewarding when did you separate from the. military um so um I basically did that. for a while I stayed on as an instructor. and then I became the director of Ops. for uh the instruct for the training. Squadron so writing the syllabus and. things like that uh and then I got.

picked up for squadron command out at uh. Avon Park in Florida and uh that's a. training facility so it's not where they. send their future four stars you know. but um like for a guy like me that uh. was Prior enlisted and uh made it back. to the hog it was it was a great honor. you know so just run this uh this. basically this training compound for. exercises did that for a couple years.

and then came back to. Tucson and uh I was able to stay flyer. in that assignment came back to Tucson. taught for a while and then uh at the. end of that it again it was just more. kind of like uh neck and back issues. kind of coming back doing a lot of Staff. work and at that point just decided that. I was basically done and ready to hit. the door yeah you had mentioned at. breakfast that.

um you know when you're done without a. doubt yeah and so what was there. anything in particular that. that I mean you're fresh out you got out. in 202 three yeah I mean so yeah there's. there was a few factors like first and. foremost I was just kind of physically. spent like I was a spent Force like I. from all the back and neck issues I went.

like I went so long like couldn't even. feel half my hand like and um just. they're they put me on pain meds they. did were doing different things it's. kind of. uh try to eek out a few more months you. know what I mean yeah just kind of like. what am I what am I doing like I fly one. sorty and for the next week I can't even. rotate my neck like this is I'm like the. Air Force is going to move on just fine.

without me you know so I. just I was just feeling it and then the. Air Force was changing too now so you. know I had come in I think I said I. enlisted um December 99 you know so. we're like over 20 years later now and. uh you know I was a squadron commander. during covid during all the riots you. know during the um the Trump presidency.

you know all the the Russia collusion. hoax. narrative and uh it's just just going. like what are we doing as a country like. this is this is not what I signed up for. like to you know we we we all believe in. this like you know this colorblind. meritocracy like you put in the work. this institution will give you the.

ability to reach your potential you know. the America America needs Warf Fighters. and if you are willing to do what it. takes no matter you know what you look. like where you came from we're going to. give you that. opportunity and um I actually remember. so it was like like 2020 riots kicked. off and the chief of staff of the Air. Force put out a video uh this guy CQ. Brown and um I was like oh great like.

he's going to be kind of a reassuring. voice you know like I figured we're all. kind of wired the same way and he was. going to put out a great statement about. how this is a great country country and. um and I was looking forward to hearing. it you know then I listened to his video. and may I don't know if it's just the. way I interpreted it but it was like not. at all what I was expecting it was like. kind of that.

um I don't know woke race communism. grievance kind of mindset about how. awful you know his career was and how. everyone was racist and I don't know. maybe I'm over reading into it but I'm. just going like can't we hear like a. unifying voice not more grievance you. know yeah and uh so just stuff like. that's happening and I'm basically just.

over it yeah I'm going like you know the. the whole Dei thing is just so toxic for. the military it's. like if you start injecting this this. quotas and requirements and this and. that it completely diverges from the. institution that I love which is uh. which I truly believe and every. Commander I ever served with was amazing.

and they didn't care who you were. they're like where you came from what. the color of your skin was uh they. didn't care any about any of that and um. if you were good. like you you were going to be respected. and you were going to get all the. opportunities and uh it just felt like. there were shifting to something else. you know just kind of a combination of. all that I just like I remember talking. to my commander when I was uh my group.

Commander when I was a squadron. commander about um going to air War. college and uh it's not that I'm some. you know fantastic officer but I think. so many people were separated in that. they had a lot of slots available he's. just like hey what do you what do you. want to do for school so if you go to. air War College it's kind of get your. ticket punch to' 06 and group. command and I and I'm talk to my wife. about it and it's just like I don't want.

to do this I don't want to move every 10. months I'm physically over it and I. don't even know what the hell our. leadership is saying yeah on half of. stuff so uh I just decided it was time. for us to go and uh so told him I was. going to get out and then that's why uh. I was able to get back to Tucson and. picked up another instructor uh tour. which is at that point is basically.

you're saying hey I'm not uh on the path. to promotion and I'm just waiting to get. out yep y man I can't imagine you. know I talk to guys that are still in. and like guys like yourself that had and. women who have recently retired and man. the. morale it just seems like it's at an. all-time low you know. and I can't get anyone to join I mean.

it's like how hard should it be to get. young men to come shoot guns and fly. airplanes and hang out with their. friends I mean it's awesome I I think uh. I want everybody to have that. opportunity if they want it but making. it so. divisive yeah well I. mean there's so many agendas that seems. like being shoved.

down everybody's throat that I mean I. get asked that all the time you know do. do. you I'm sure you do too probably on. social you know you had Young young. adults. asking if I would serve in the military. now or should they serve and that's a. tough question for me yeah you know I. don't know I don't really agree with. anything we're. doing and I don't agree with any of the.

agendas coming out I. mean why are we talking. about sexual. preference oh yeah in a in a in a war. fighting. machine why is that relevant it's not. you know why does it keep getting. brought up dude I remember going to. mcdill Air Force Base in the summer of.

2020 for a medical appointment and in. the hospital were all these flyers and. signs up that had like the. lgbtqia flag with like the l m fist. superimposed on the front of it and and. thinking like how is this acceptable. this is like. farle you know divisive political. imagery but in the military I served.

prided itself on being nonpartisan being. neutral we serve the American people you. know like we're not you leave your. politics at home you weren't even. allowed to speak out about that kind of. if if if if I remember corre I mean. it's been a long time I left an' 06 I. came in during don't ask don't tell but. I. mean what do you what is what are your. thoughts when people ask that question. you know I I've thought about it a lot.

and um I think I would. be giving bad advice if I talk to a guy. just like me and shut him down and told. you can't do this because now it's. ruined and then it's like what are you. supposed to do kid living in his car. that has you know tons of ambition but. no Direction yeah and it's. like fly these Jets do these things it's.

like do. it uh if me telling you not to do it. would have stopped you you probably. weren't going to make it anyway but go. do it and serve honorably and uh we're. going to need people that have that. experience and we're going to need good. people because hopefully this madness. ends and reasonable people take charge. again so go do it and do the best you. can and serve with honor and don't do.

anything that uh violates your. conscience I mean one thing they teach. us all I hope they're still teaching it. is that you are not toall unlawful. orders you know so uh just know that we. might be going into an era where that's. actually relevant you know. so you know I would say Do It Go I mean. there's there's amazing benefits I had. the time of my life yeah you know I I.

like I had so much fun I I served with. the most amazing people and uh I want. that to be an opportunity for young. people to continue doing um so I say if. you you want to do it go do it but just. know that um there may come a time where. you have to. actually uh stand up and say no I'm not. doing that yeah that's good. advice you. know I tell.

them if you like the direction that the. country is going. join and starve them out kind of thing. if you do. when you get up there to the ranks hold. your ground man like don't fold like all. these. other upper brass I mean look at. look just and then I also tell them I. say you know there's a lot.

of nothing's ever what you think it is. in my experience and and. and you're not joining the military that. you probably think you. are and times have changed and and uh. you know and and man it's. just it's really. disheartening breaks my heart to see. what everything is turning into.

and you know a lot there's the argument. about and I get it I it bothers me too. you know the well we have to have a. military who's going to defend the. country. well we have a second. amendment and so if this country gets. invaded guess what we're all in the. military now buddy and there's a. lot of guns in this country and there's.

a lot of people that know how to use. them. and it would be extremely hard for. somebody to invade yeah I don't think. it's feasible. today's technology I don't either you. know but but I I see where you're coming. from and kind of my uh darker Angels. just want to say tell everybody to like. starve the Beast you know don't don't. send your kids.

to you know die for pedophile rights in. Uganda or whatever the yeah the latest. uh thing they're sanctioning someone for. um. yeah so I is that a thing there was like. there was this uh recent event where uh. Uganda passed a law that was deemed. anti-lgbt and in that included I think. like capital punishment for pedophiles.

which is a pretty good law in my seems. appropriate to me but then there was. like massive outrage from DC from the. left and the right right and they got. like sanctioned for it as a is a. violation of Human Rights so sanctioned. from what do we get from Uganda some. sort of Aid oh I mean I'm I'm out of my. wheelhouse here but it's like you just. see what are our values what do we what.

do we is it hard work treating people. fairly or is it let's go spread gay. rights overseas that's the only thing I. see. I mean. like mutilate children. yeah rip them from their. homes let them make a decision that's. going to affect the rest of their life. when they can't even smoke a. cigarette till they're 18 or drink a. beer until they're 21 like that's our.

value system I thought that that's what. it is now if that's the case. like it's what's the point of any of. this right like why would anyone. sacrifice to prop that. up I don't. know but so you mov to you moved to. Oregon yep and now you're you're working.

a. branch how's that how's that learn how's. that uh learning curve it's awesome man. you know the we've talked about the kind. of Demands of military life. uh all these moves you know and as I'm. moving around at the end of my career. I'm. watching my oldest daughter go from this. like the brightest light full of joy and. happiness to kind of like shutting down.

you know like we move from Tucson to. Florida and then she makes new friends. you know uh and then I get my uh. beautiful Sarah comes along and she. makes friends you know and they're like. we're getting into a good routine there. but it's a two-year assignment then we. it's the third move for my oldest Holly. back to Tucson but now everybody's gone. that she knew then and I just see her. like um kind of shutting down like she.

didn't you know at this time she's like. seven eight years old she doesn't want. to make new friends she's not being. outgoing she's kind of lashing out at at. Mom and it's been it's difficult and uh. I'm going like man like every every. child is different right but I see this. child is not going to do well with this. lifestyle and we got to do something. different and. so I started looking at this going like.

okay do I want to do the. airlines do I want to go you know the. Air Force paid for me to get an NBA so. do I want to go to Corporate America. like what am I am I going to do it's. basically a blank slate it's like. graduating high school again right and. um and I'm looking it all the time away. all the long days from my family and. thinking like we're you know my wife was. successful I'm doing pretty good like.

together we're we're we don't need a ton. of money to make it so why don't we do. something that where we can really just. pour into these kids and invest in our. family. and. uh you know completely off the beaten. path so decided to forego uh Airlines. foro Corporate America and we bought an. old dairy farm that hadn't been. operational in like 30 years all.

overgrown with Briars and alers and uh. Barn was leaking and um but it was it. was still there and uh just decided to. step off onto this journey of. transforming this property uh that had. just kind of gone into disarray uh back. into a functional uh cattle ranch so. yeah just spent a lot of time you know. working outside homeschooling the kids.

so building fences you know planting. grass trimming. trees clearing out brush you know doing. Roofing just just manual work outside. and uh that's basically what I've been. doing since I got out is that. therapeutic for you oh it's amazing I. just. like I don't know I think it took me at. least you know six to nine months to. even begin to understand the amount of.

stress I was under on active. duty and uh yeah it's just reconnecting. with nature you know yeah you're just. outside every day you kind of live by. the natural conditions like it's like. okay what's the what's the rain looking. like what's the temperature what's the. sun exposure how's my grass going to do. also back surfing so what's the swell.

look like you're surfing again yeah nice. man nothing like I did when I was. younger but taking my girls out surfing. taking my going with my dad he he was. always a surfer. damn that's awesome so yeah it's just. it's like it's a chance. to take each day and maximize it for. what's important to. me are you like I said I've been. following you for a while on X and man. you. posted 4th of July Independence Day you.

posted a photo of your daughter one of. your daughters what is that a 22 that's. a 22 mag yeah walking in the creek. Barefoot how old is she there seven. seven years old and I think the caption. was like the European mind can't fathom. this this this level of Freedom or. something I was like holy that is. amazing that is so American it's.

awesome but are you guys like are you. 100% self-sufficient out there um I mean. we are still connected to the power grid. and we still go to the grocery store we. probably I don't know produce 80 90% of. the calories we eat you know just from. you know I do Angus grass-fed grass. finish beef so. um you it's really difficult to get to.

fully like comprehend what you're eating. even if you shop at like you know the. the highest end Natural Grocers or uh. whatever it may be you can't really know. exactly what you're putting in your body. what you're putting in your kid's body. unless you raise that food from the. ground up so yeah to just you know see a. calf born and watch it grow and you know. process steers and put it in the freezer.

and and make you know feed it to your. family it just it's the most rewarding. feeling. ever are you guys growing too yeah we. have a huge Garden but just for personal. use Greenhouse yep we got a greenhouse. man like you got you guys got a m out. there yeah it's a little size of. paradise it looks amazing and uh it. makes me jealous every time I see you. post a picture of your. property but um yeah you know with the.

homeschool thing we're I mean we're. thinking about doing. homeschooling but it's always this like. issue of you know are the kids going to. be socialized enough and so somebody. who's going who's doing it I mean what. what are your thoughts on that I mean. you've you you look pretty isolated out. there yeah we're we're not too far from. civilization you know it's like it's. within you know you be in civilization.

in 30 minutes so it's not crazy but um. um yeah it's something you have to think. about and I think plan for I honestly. think moving around in the military. every couple of years is probably harder. on kids than uh socially than than. homeschooling and homeschooling now. looks very different than it did like. when we were kids because so many people. are doing it you set up these uh cohorts.

filled with homeschoolers that have like. similar values you know we're all. Christians we all um want to raise our. kids with good Christian values mhm and. they meet once a week and that day looks. a lot like a traditional classroom so. they're in there with I think they're um. it's growing so fast so where do you do. it is it on is it like move around to. people's properties no um a really. awesome family uh that's done really.

well in real estate just bought a. property and completely renovated it for. the school and it's just like a. community resource now for for. homeschoolers no kidding yeah it's. amazing and like my wife was a you know. she like we said she went to vanderbelt. she taught chemistry and she teaches a. chemistry course there to like all the. kids who are like junior high high. school age and then there's just. amazingly talented people there so I.

would say homeschool nowadays looks a. lot more um it's like merges homeschool. and Traditional School it's just on your. own terms that's interesting you know I. had this um I we're we're a little way. actually we're not far out now but we. had. a several families over to our house to. all have kids around the same age and I. had this idea where it sounds like very. similar where except we would all pitch.

in and cuz everybody's concerned about. what the public schools are teaching now. and the private schools and who's coming. and like in this state we have this. wave ungodly amount of people from. California Illinois New York they're all. moving here. and it's raising a lot of concerns I. mean some of these neighborhoods around. here are 60% 60% of the people in some.

of these neighborhoods are. California this is Tennessee oh my gosh. it's. driving all of the locals out of here. none of them can afford to live here. anymore and we're not talking we're even. talking like well to-do young. professionals like can't afford a house. yeah like attorneys like we have a a a. friend who's a an a newer attorney who's. built a hell of a business and she's got. to move out of here.

because they they can't afford it. anymore and um but anyways all this. influx of people moving from all these. states that completely upside down it's. raised a lot of concern to people that. have our type of. values and uh I'm just curious what you. think of this I I I had this idea where. we get a bunch of like-minded family.

friends together who have kids around. the same age and we all pitch in money. to buy a piece of real estate so it. turns into a everybody has skin in the. game. it's a real estate investment you turn. that investment into a school it's not a. business it's a real estate investment. that just so happens to be where we. homeschool all of our kids yeah and and.

everybody like I said everybody pitches. in we all pitch in we get a teacher and. then everybody has different expertise. we got a finance guy we've got Health. Care Professionals we've got businessmen. we've got entrepreneurs you know we've. got all these all these. Specialties that don't get especially. how to how to manage money oh yeah look. at what the is going on in this. nobody can manage their own money. everybody's drowning in debt CU they. don't know any better and.

um and then at the end the investment. liquidates and the equity gets divvied. back up into the percentage that you. pitched in. I think that's a great idea do you know. uh Tucker Max have you ever SE is that. the guy that is that the uh I hope they. serve beer in Hell Dy yeah he is so cool. like um do you know him I know him I'm. going to introduce you guys no way are. you me he's come full circle he.

is like you would be shocked with this. guy like he uh has a bunch of kids he. raises sheep and he did exactly what. you're talking about they like bought or. built a school with a bunch of. like-minded families I think he may be. writing a book on it now on on like what. he's doing now but uh yeah he he's he's. hilarious and uh just a really cool. person but they basically did that it. sounds similar to what we did and it.

works really well and I think the demand. signal will be off the roof you know cuz. um everyone's looking at the public. school system even in the so-called. good school systems and you know even in. like the some of the reddest areas in. the country the public school systems. are little you know propaganda making. machines and I don't know everything we. just did and assumed was was uh normal.

for our childhoods I I think we're all. coming to the realization like oh you. can't trust that these people are giving. your kids proper education and Val use. and I mean my uh if you're. like socially I think our kids are fine. they you know they they do swimming they. do theater they do uh all kinds of stuff. in the community and then uh. academically they're like off the charts.

so when you get that one-on-one time. plus my wife's amazing but uh you don't. have to slow down if there need to to. move on and you don't need to um um if. there need extra work on some area you. don't just skip it you you make sure. they understand it so I mean my oldest. when she took her last she took like. this um I think it's called the Stanford. 10 it's a standardized test and then.

they like o categorize what is your. equivalent grade average she's was in. first grade and they rated her in like. 10.5 for for uh um her like overall. academic achievement so it's like um I. don't know what that means 10 point. saying she's basically in uh like a. sophomore in high school are you. serious and what yeah I mean she's she's.

very intelligent like holy dude. when she was seven she read every row. doll book like she just she's a reader. and uh my youngest is amazing too like. they're just they're killing it they're. um they're going to be so far ahead. academically I mean I do their math uh. just to give my wife a break because she. was doing all of it for the whole time. and then this year I took over the math.

so and I enjoy it and not only is it um. is it kind of fun to teach them math but. you you're bonding cuz you're giving. them like an hour of direct oneon-one. attention yeah and it's just you and. them and you're working through these. problems and you know they're not always. into it and you got to motivate them and. get them moving but it's it's just an. incredible experience how do you teach. them both at the same time so how we do. it is um and we've done it different. ways used to be my wife just did it all.

and then what we've evolved to is um my. wife does like she does all the like. Core Curriculum and while she's doing. teaching one of the girls I'll teach the. other one math and then we'll switch oh. okay yeah and you can knock it out in a. short amount of time like if you do like. two hours of focused work every day that. is probably more than they're getting in. eight hours at a public school with all. the waiting and the disruptive children.

and all the other issues it's these. little mini prisons you know creating. Factory workers or whatever it's. tailored for was um derived but uh yeah. you just do that focused work for a. couple hours you do all kinds of other. activities that are educational like. taking care of animals taking care of a. garden. um you know taking my girls flying like.

so if they want to I you know I'm an. instructor I can teach they can be. certified Pilots before they get their. driver's licenses I like how you. disqualified yourself I mean I am an. instructor. I know I can do it oh my gosh. former I can teach him how to fess now. but yeah so you're like uh you can you. have the Core Curriculum which is a. classical education which is like what. you think of what you thought every.

student was learning like the classics. and basic math um like sentence. structure all this stuff is like what. you're actually working on and then out. out side of that is just like what are. their interests like um you know singing. lessons piano lessons swimming all that. stuff is just that could be considered. school but it's just kind of. extracurricular stuff yeah I mean I I I. want to teach my kid how to run a. business you know and like both of my.

kids like I I can't wait I don't want to. skip any steps. but I mean. it's it seems to me that you can make. homeschool. whatever you want it to be and think. about all the experiences you have in. your life. like you were a Navy SEAL you know all. the other things you did after that. started a business from the ground up. all these all this knowledge and all.

these lessons learned all the mistakes. you made that you wish you could have. avoided and uh I just had this Epiphany. it was like if you don't take the time. to communicate that to your children. they're they're not going to learn it. through osmosis yeah they're not going. to learn it magically like it just you. need to take your time and spend that. time with them and teach them and it's. like when we're out feeding animals. every morning we're we're just talking. about life you know like and what.

they're going through and you know who. they're fighting with and who's bugging. them and who you know whatever it may be. and uh and it's an opportunity just to. bond with you know so um I just had this. Epiphany at the end of my career cuz we. don't talk about this a lot but a. military career you know people always. thank me for my service or thank you for. your service and it's like I had a great. time I did exactly what I wanted like I. had so much fun uh thank my wife you.

know like the the family is the one who. I think sacrifices the most for our. highspeed career years and. um and I just had this Epiphany I'm like. they're not going to know about anything. I did or care if they if we don't have a. relationship yeah and so how you build a. relationship is you are deliberate about. it and you spend time with them and then. you can teach them the things that.

you've learned in your life but if you. fail to do that don't be surprised when. you lose that Bond and I mean we've all. seen it a million times you know and. then off they go into the world without. that uh that anchor yeah you know that's. very. true is there anything we should cover. that I haven't touched no I think we. hammered at all I do have one more. question it has to do with your wife but.

you know being out. there raising and growing your own food. raising and growing two little girls. homeschooling them all that land to take. care of. how do you find time to get on a date. with just your. wife well uh does that happen yeah so uh. thankfully we've got parents that live. there and so um they're they're they're. so great you know they're as they get.

into their um you know 70s they just. want to spend as much time as possible. with those little girls so they go over. there once a week and allows us to get a. date so we you just have to prioritize. it and if you have a farm which you'll. find out if you if you do this like the. work never ends like you could you could. work on it um 247 you could have a whole. crew and the work would never get done.

because it's unending so what I decided. was like where's good enough and then. I'm going to schedule work you know. there's things you have to do like feed. the animals and stuff like that uh but. that's not that big of a deal it's just. a morning routine you know um and then. you just have to decide how much time. you want to invest into additional. projects so you're like okay I'm going. to work out in this field x amount of. hours today and then I'm going to be.

done at 4: and then you just stick to it. so you just have to understand that the. work will never be done do what you can. and then move on with your life. sounds like a. business but uh but uh thank you for. that advice and I I know I'm going to. wind up doing that at some point in time. hopefully sooner than later but um well. Dale man it was uh I'm so glad we met.

and um it was an honor to interview you. and get your life story and and your. experience as a pilot in combat and um. and and uh and I know you're you're. you're you're coming out with a website. in you're selling beef and so all of. that will be linked below but man just. God bless you and uh I just wish you and. your family the best thanks for having.

me this was awesome. [Music]. no matter where you're watching Shan. Ryan Show from if you get anything out. of this please like comment subscribe. and most importantly share this. everywhere you possibly can and if. you're feeling extra generous please. leave us review on Apple and Spotify.

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