Chris Miller - Former Secretary of Defense on Toppling the Taliban | SRS #88

Hey, what's up everybody? It's that time. of the week again and uh this week I'm. interviewing the former Secretary of. Defense. We cover his military. background and some of the decisions. that he had to make as Secretary of. Defense. Ladies and gents, if you get anything. out of these interviews, please like, comment, and subscribe to the YouTube. channel. Some of you know we also have a. clips channel, Sham Ryan Clips. And if.

you can't do that, please head over to. Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever. you're listening to this. Leave us a. review. Tell us who you'd like to see on. the show and how we're doing. Patreon, thank you for all the support. It's. because of you guys. that this show rolls on. It really, really is. In fact, the team is. expanding because of you. new equipment. because of you. And we may have a. potential new studio because of your.

support. So much love to you. Thank you. for being our top supporters. And. without further ado, ladies and. gentlemen, please welcome Mr. Chris. Miller to the Shawn Ryan Show. [Music]. Chris Miller, welcome to the show. I can't believe I had to write a book to. get on your show, Sean. I can't believe I'm sitting across from.

a former suck desk. Please, please. I saw I did I did my. research, of course. I've heard. obviously knew about you. Uh did my. research before went through there are. 53 podcasts. You've got more in the can, I know, but 53 are posted. I didn't look. at every single one of them. Looked at a. lot of them. Um, and. like legendary figures and I can't. believe I'm here with you. Seriously, I'm just like kid from Iowa and here I.

am with on your podcast. Number 10 in. the country. Let's get this we going to. get this thing juiced to like what do. you think? Can we get to two or three on. this one? Hey, we'll we'll see what happens. We we. are currently sitting at the number 10. slot on Spotify and in out of all. categories in the country. Congrats. which I believe there's over 8. billion podcasts. So, we're. Yeah, everybody and their sister has a. dog on podcast right now and you're. number 10. It's got to be really. rewarding. I just Hey, can I go off. script for a minute?

Yeah, go ahead. Thanks. Thanks for being a veteran. Thanks for serving. But more. importantly, thank you for being an. example of what veterans can do because. a lot of us get out and the military is. kind of beat into our head that we're. only good at one thing, being in the. military. I think they do that on. purpose. Actually, I think like like if. you're a business person, you'd like, I. don't want to incentivize these people. to leave after I spent millions of. dollars on training them. I get them all. this experience and this leadership. I.

send them all over the world and then. they just get up and go away. So I think. there's an the incentive structure is. built to keep people in for 20 20 plus. years. You had the courage to leave uh. the service uh after your initial couple. couple uh tours and you you're showing. people that veterans like hey you can do. things other than the old oh I'll go be. a contractor for Booze Allen. Oh, I'll. go, you know, work at uh do it be do do.

security work and all that. You've done. that. I know. And that's important. I. think it's really important to know like. the first job you get when you leave the. service is not the job that you're going. to have for the rest of your life. And. you know how. we were raised like, oh, I'm went into. the Navy, you went in the Navy, I went. in the Army, and you you stick with them. and then you have one employer, right? That's not how the world works once you. get out. That first job is not the one. that is going to be your last job. And.

you, my friend, have threaded the. needle. I think Navy Seals do it a heck. of a lot better than the rest of us. But. you your journey is to me is an example. of how talented veterans are. And dude, you're selftaught. Like you didn't did you go to film. school? Did I miss that in your resume? Did you go to film school? No, I didn't. You didn't go to Columbia. You didn't go. to UCLA. They wouldn't let me in there. They will now. I went to a community college for a.

year. Well, the I had a buddy uh I got out. uh 2014. Left left left government. You. know, I was I enlisted in the army in. 1983 in the Army Reserve. 17 years old. Got out of high school. Wanted to serve. Uncles had served. My. dad had served. I was just like, I guess. you serve. I didn't know any better. You. just serve, right? What do you do now?

Like, I guess I joined the military. I was going to college, too. So, I went. into the reserve, you know, one weekend. a month, two weeks during the year. And, uh, did that, retired in 2014. Go into. details if you want. Uh, stayed in. government though because I didn't know. anything else and I needed a job. So, I. just basically took off my uniform one. one day, showed back up at the office. the next day wearing well, it was a. little later, you know, wearing a crappy. suit from Joseph A. Banks and I got five.

of those things for like 200 bucks, man. Cuz I didn't have any money, right? Yeah. So, show back up. Um, and then I finally. get done with government in 2014 at. 12:01 on the 20th of January 2021 when. the administration changed. I was the. acting secretary of defense at the. Pentagon. You walk out one minute after. noon because officially the new. president gets uh sworn in at 12:00.

noon. President Biden went like 3. minutes early. So I had 3 minutes where. I really didn't have a job and just sit. around yucking it up with people. Walked. out, didn't have any job. Uh didn't know. what I was doing. And I met a Green. Beret buddy of mine from Fifth Special. Forces Group, Scotty Neil. He runs Horse. Soldiers Bourbon. I didn't want to talk to him, but I ran. into him because he's busy. He owned. this restaurant in St. Petersburg. I. forgot the name of it. Really nice.

place. Went in there, I like, "Wow, this. is nice." Ran into him and I said, "Wow, this is a really nice place." Goes, "Chris, what did you expect that it was. going to be halfass?" because I'm a. Green Beret. I said, "Well, yeah, actually, I thought it would be kind of. halfass." I was like, "Yeah, I mean, I. thought it'd be good enough." He goes, "We're a premium brand. We're a top. shelf brand. Everything I have to do, everything we do has to reinforce that.

brand." And at that point, you know, I'm. like, "This guy knows what he's talking. about." I said, "How'd you learn this?". He goes, "Spent one year, one year. asking questions, listening." Hey, so. when you're making bourbon, why do you. do it that way and not this way? When. you're asking the bank for a loan, why. do you structure it this way? Said I was. just just green beret asking questions, listening. Said after one year, I. figured it out. And I was like, okay, it's time to go. And I thought about.

that. So I gave myself a year just to. learn. And you kind of did the same. thing, I think. Did you feel the same. way with when you decided to go in to. this business? How long did it take. before you decided like I'm starting to. figure this out? It probably took about a year. You know, I'm I am very big on self-reliance. And. I noticed you do everything here, man. Yep. I do. I know you have a staff now. I have a I have a staff now. I have a.

very small team. We're very extreme. My. team's like a family. We don't, nobody. gets in or out of here. We, you know, once you're in the circle, you don't. leave. Uh, unless you do something. really bad, but but I I work with I'm. not the kind of guy that if you show up. and you [ __ ] something up, I kick you. out. I I'm I'm going to work with you. In fact, um, sometimes my team gets a little annoyed. with me because I'm once I invest in.

you, I'm I'm going to continue to invest. in you. I suspect that somewhere in your. career, maybe in the Navy, somebody. said, "I'm going to give this guy. another chance." I just suspect. And. then that kind of was ingrained into. your leadership ethos. I'm just make I'm. guessing. Well, I wish you were right, but um. maybe a couple times at the agency, but. not in the teams, not really much in the. agency. And and that's that's something.

that I learned is that [ __ ] doesn't. work. just going through people because. I, you know, I see potential in people. and I want to bring that potential out. and I would rather invest my time and. work to bring that potential out than. just kick them to the [ __ ] curb like. everybody else does. And and it worked. But um but as far as starting my. business, yeah, you know, I'm like your. guy that you were just talking about. that started the whiskey uh bourbon. company, you know, he he sounds like. he's an observer. I'm also an observer.

I observe what everybody's doing. I see. that 99% of the population goes one. direction like a bunch of sheep. And. I find I find something to make. everything that I do different than what. everybody else is doing. And um. and so that's kind of how I built it. And and and I don't have the money, you. know, like I said when I when I was. talking about self-reliance, I didn't. have the money to hire a crew. when I.

and when we moved up here from from. South Florida, I had one film crew that. I would it was extremely affordable. Uh, you know, but then it was flying them up. here, putting them in hotels, and and. that just wasn't sustainable for the. income I was making. So, I flew them up. one time, I made them teach me. everything that they knew about cameras. and video editing, which I knew nothing. about. and they gave me a very.

a very um basic baseline about it. And. then it was YouTube University and you. know and it started with a two camera. setup on the on the first show to and my. wife was running back and forth cuz the. cameras that we had were cheap and they. had a 30-minute time limit. So. Oh, she's running back and forth. I'm talking booting this crap. I'm. talking to my friend Mike Glover and. she's running back and forth resetting. cameras. If he was talking, she would. reset mine. If I was talking, she would.

reset his. I'm running the sound while. I'm trying to interview him. And then. that that went into a three camera setup. and then into a four camera, man. I. don't even know. Four to five. Four to five. Well, you got like secret cameras all. over this place. I sometimes I have a a. guy that'll come in and do some gimbal. uh like some moving shots. Hey, you know what you need to do next? Get drones. You should have like like in inside. here. Hey, I'm just saying. You know what we thought about inside?

You could have like, you know, get a. micro drone. Yeah, they have um they have these 360. cameras. We thought about maybe doing a. 360 camera setup so people can see. Well, you could do the lines too, like. uh NFL games. You could string. That's. probably better than the drone because. the drone you're going to have that. buzz. You're probably. This is your show and I'm I'm already. doing Hey, two things. So, thanks for thanks for showing what. veterans can do. Thanks for helping.

veterans out. Now, third thing you. brought up great leadership point about. underwriting people and that first. episode I I went last night. I'm I'm a. little tired now because I got addicted. to watching your podcasts and your first. one with Glover. I never worked with. him, but you had a kid on there that you. had um mentored. that you were like the kid with the. beard you talked about, remember? And uh you had him on your cell phone. where he called in and talked to Glover.

It was really really cool, man. It was. really really awesome. Yeah. So. man, that hurts though. That hurts. Like. not again, man. Did you really do that. again? Yeah. You know, I and I appreciate the. compliment and and um and the and and. bringing light to what I'm doing here. I. really appreciate it. And and to. elaborate on, you know, I I think and not just special. operations veterans, just veterans. across the board. Um,

nobody I don't think I don't think the. civilian population understands the. drive and determination and and and how. quick veterans are to pick up um what it. is they're doing and and run with it, especially if they're if they're driven. and they like what they're doing. And I. don't think veterans give themselves. enough credit either. You know, the. drive and the determination and the and. the and the loyalty, you know, that you. can get from.

work ethic. from veterans. You know, we tend to. discredit ourselves. You got any you got any theory why that. is? Like, you know, in my book. I highlight only 7% of America Americans. are veterans. Now, I think that's a. great problem to have, by the way. Isn't. that great? like we're not an armed. society anymore. So I'm not like oh only se this is. ridiculous you know. Uh but there is.

that does create a gap cuz probably back. in the day like what in the ' 50s60s. I'm guessing 50% 40 45% of Americans. probably higher than that either had. served or were a family member of. somebody who had served either in World. War II, Korea, Vietnam, etc. etc. And. there's an understanding about how the. military worked and the things that you. talk about people intuitively know knew. And now I think that's really incumbent. on us is to like share our experiences.

And I know we don't like I don't like to. talk about myself, man. I know that's. crazy. I'm on your podcast. I hate. talking about myself. And I speak for. one veteran. I don't speak for any other. veterans community. I speak for myself. Um, but I wonder right now. it seems like there's a disconnect with. what you said. Like the American public, we're not all crazed, you know, uh, psychopaths, you know, we're just Americans, you.

know, and sure, we we volunteer to. serve. 99%, as you know, 99% of serving. in the military is absolutely a gas. So. much fun, right? Mhm. I mean, come on. deploying pretty good. life 1% gets one 1% really kind of the. scales even out on that one but that's. all right that's what the nation asked. us to do but I was I wanted to ask you. do you like what can we do better to.

like show the American public and people. that are hiring like no you this is the. right person to invest in because I I'm. telling you there's this undercurrent in. a lot of places that you know, oh, do we. want to take the risk on bringing this. veteran in? You know, he could go crazy. Yeah. You know, there is out there. Oh, I know the all. we don't we're not supposed to talk. about that, though. The police. department, the the government agencies, every government. organization. Uh I mean, it's it's.

already it's been it's been leaked, you. know, that. especially during the Obama. administration that the veteran resumes. go at the bottom of the stack. That's. that's that's a fact. Mhm. That's not conspiracy [ __ ] That is. a fact. It's been a long time coming, but we've. put a lot of thought into this and. Vigilance Elite Peril is finally back.

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and it's going to be a very exciting. 2020 for us as we continue to bring you. more from Vigilance Elite. and um but to show people. you know I don't know how I don't know. how you bring that out. I guess things. like this show, you know, but I mean. look at look at one thing that I like to. talk about or actually I have never.

talked about it publicly, but look at. look at all of the vetereneurs out there. and how and how fast some of these. companies have found success. I mean I. mean I've I'm a hard worker. I'm very. determined. We now have a top 10 podcast. in the country out of over eight million. podcast. You know, uh Mike Glover with. Fieldcraft Survival. Um Black Rifle. Coffee. Um.

I mean there's just there's tons of. veteran entrepreneurs that have just. taken off. And just think and and this. is after an entire career of going to. war and serving this country and we're. already rising to the top of the food. chain again, starting a completely new. career that we know nothing about. I. don't know [ __ ] about business. I still don't think I know [ __ ] about. business, you know, and I'll bet if you. ask all these other guys that are, you. know, DJ Shipley, he's running GBRS,

that's only a couple years old. He's. he's the top trainer, top tactics and. tactician in the country right now. You. know, couple years old rose right. through the ranks like it was nothing. Blew past everybody. You know, uh Travis. Kennedy, very successful business. Uh. David McCormack, CEO, Bridgewwater, former veteran. They do they make any. money at Bridgewwater? No. I watched that one. I was like, "You. got David McCormack.". Sold his initial company for $500.

million at age 37. Just talked to. another guy. Uh he's not a veteran, but. wanted to be a SEAL. Then did some stuff. uh with the agency. Sold a company at. age 29 for $4 billion. You know, now. he's making these energy weapons. So, he's not technically a veteran, but. he did serve the government. You know, he or he did serve the country, excuse. me. Uh, I think he did some stuff with. NSA maybe or the or CIA, but you know,

but anyways, you watch these guys just, you know, hit the ground running and. rise so fast. Just think if we would. have never gone to war and we would have. just been entrepreneurs the entire time. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? You know, how much help did you get from other. veterans? From other veterans. How much help did. you get when you decided to go off and. leave uh government service? I got two. calls. It's really nice. They were both. 160th uh special operations aviation. regiment guys. Uh both very successful.

They called me said, "Hey, they were the. only two people. I didn't get anybody. from my community." Like I I kind of. thought, "Shit, kind of put the work in. Be kind of nice if somebody called.". Yeah. Nope. Had to figure it out myself. And. that's where I'm really committed. I. don't do well and I probably every day. feel guilty for not doing more. But our. generation of veterans is different.

I've noticed and you've seen this. I love the American Legion. Love the. VFW. Very hierarchical, top-driven. organizations. They did unbelievable. work for veterans in America. Our. generation, you know, I'm a different. generation than you, I should say. our. generation of veterans, it seems to me, I've noticed, it's very much more. organic. It's very much more bottom up. It's very much more collaborative. And. we don't like we we don't want we don't. need some hierarchical top down thing.

Have you noticed that? Yeah. I I think it's also I think the. I think it's very detrimental to our. community, but um I think that the. competitiveness within the veteran. community is. way more competitive than it needs to. be. Whereas if we could come together, we could run this [ __ ] You know, I've st Hey, I've stumbled in because I.

I we we think a lot the same way. And. I'm like, how come we have three special. forces, charitable organizations? They're all bulcanizing. They're all all. trying to recruit off the same. population. They're all bulcanizing the. donor base. You just described it. It's. like hyper competitive. And I'm like, why don't we why doesn't everybody just. Why don't we have one group? Where do you think the competitiveness. comes from? Of course, it's in our DNA, right? I know because that's a good. point and that's something I always try. to take into consideration is like these.

are the things that made us extremely. successful as an army, as a special. operations force, a military service. Uh. so that's so yeah, that is exactly it. So how do you you how do you use that. for more positive reasons and maybe you. just can't do it? I'm literally at the. point now like maybe it's just. sisophist, you know, pushing the rock up. the hill. I mean, maybe you just don't. do it. I think it's just, you know, I I.

Navy Seals got their stuff right. I. mean, it was a it was a food fight when. they join merged their two. organizations. Like, I'm sure they're pe. I I know it was a huge emotional issue, but you finally got it together and and. uh I think you guys do it really really. well, but Oh, man. Somebody should do a. Netflix series about that. If only you could see it from the. inside. But uh. Well, good on you that you keep it. inside. Yeah. Um.

you know, I just I think I think it. could be changed just by leading from. example. You know, there's I've been. I've always been raised to root for the. underdog and and and lift people up that. are lagging behind and and maybe that'll. come back around in the future, you. know. But um but not a lot of people do. that because they they see other vets as. come as competition. and and I think a lot of guys get left. behind and they don't get the exposure.

they deserve because because the space. is so competitive and uh and I. personally think that that. competitiveness I I can't say that for. all veterans. I can say that for special. operations veterans uh because that's. that's our community, right? I I feel. that the com the the competitiveness. comes from day one, week one of training. because everything is a competition. The. runs are competition, the swims are. competition, who's the best shooter, who's the best sniper, who's the best in.

the kill house, who's the best driver, who has the most kills, who's got the. most deployments, who's, you know, you're right. And and I think that. and that's what drives us and builds the. camaraderie when we're in, right? But. then when you come out it just turns. into a disaster. My one of my favorite apherisms that I. share with my children is and everybody. greatest strengths your greatest. weakness, right? Mhm. And that competitiveness truly is I. think maybe that's I'd love to tease.

that out because I like some people like. I got to I was obviously same way but. you hit a point where you're like no. it's about giving back now. Mhm. And and that happens at a different time. in everybody's life. Some people are. blessedly, you know, decide this at a. very early age. It wasn't that for me. because you're like, got to put food in. the table. Got to do well, got to do. well, got to do well. Because it's personal, professional. standards. It's the way I was raised. You know, anything you do, you do it the.

best you can and all those things. Uh, and unfortunately, probably too late in. life, I came to the conclusion like, no, it's all about giving back now, you. know. And maybe maybe some people just. never get there. But, you know, I'd hope. that we all kind of hit that point. We. because as veterans, we're we're we're. growing up together now. We're all kind of out now. Handful of. people still in. Uh but what I I try to. share and I try to fail to do with a lot. of the people is we can't do we got to.

do better than like you said you didn't. get any help. It's like maybe you didn't. you probably didn't need it to be. perfectly honest with you. At the end of. the day I I was going to figure it out. myself anyhow, but it still would have. been nice. It still would have been. nice. I said we can't we got to do better than. the last generation and we can't leave. people behind, man. And I don't know how. to do it. I'm trying. Uh where I can and. all you can do is like where you sit is. where you stand, right?

Mhm. Which I can't believe I'm sitting in. this great chair. I've been watch Dude, I went so dark last night watching all. of your podcasts. I'm like 2:00 in the. morning. I'm like, I need to get some. sleep. It was just amazing. And of. course, the legendary chair. I'm like, I'm in the legendary chair. So, okay. Thanks for having me. We kind of went. off script, I know, but I just wanted uh. you know, one of the key things you. always bring up is veteran stuff and and. it's not topical. It's not superficial. It's like for real. And I think those. are the conversations that we need to. have and share with share with other.

people that don't understand don't. understand us. I I agree with that. Going back just real quick. What do you. got? Real quick, you were asking at the. beginning, did anybody step up and help? And the answer was no. There is one. person uh who I've always relied on for. help though. And I'm going to give him. credits. my best friend uh David. Rutherford has he's always been there. um. to pick me up when I'm down and and. yeah can I.

so. I end up you know serving it's what I. did end up t you know I accepted I was. asked to be the I had a great gig I was. the director of the national. counterterrorism center. and I was I got like sickeningly. focused. I made a mistake in Iraq in. 20067. You were there. Solder city was uh was a.

enclave of uh Shia militants. There was. this guy named Mcado alsolder. They had. the solder fed. They had some name for. his fighting force. And there was you. you remember there was civil war going. on every night. You know, Shia were. killing Sunnis. Sunnis were killing. Shia. They called it extrajudicial. violence. I called it a civil war, but. that wasn't cool. They're like, "We. can't we can never say it's a civil war. Heaven forbid, you know, we tore this. country apart and now there's a civil.

war. We'll call it extrajudicial. killings." EJK. Did you do any work on that? No, not that I know of. I think you did. and didn't even know it because we were. kind of our our tours there over. overlapped and I just remember like uh. you know we've got this civil war going. on. and we're working it and then um where. was I going with this? I completely.

forgot. A mistake. What's that? A mistake. Oh yeah. So um 10 special forces group. We we rotate between 10th special forces. group out of Fort Carson. We were fifth. special forces group out of Fort. Campbell. We just rotate every six eight. months. And the guy I replaced had. become hyperfocused on killing this guy. I forgot his name. [ __ ] something. He. had a white camel. That's all I. remember. White camel. White camel. I was like white camel.

This dude had a white camel and he would. feed it Coca-Cola because it's on. YouTube. You can find it. I forgot this. guy's name. My buddy became obsessed. with killing this guy and we they go up. in Solder City every night. I got there, I'm like, "Hey, you know, like come on, let's we got to think more than just. this one target." And got to be bigger. picture, you know, the way I was. trained. And I realized he had the right. idea. It's like you got to get. hyperfocused on one thing. So when I had.

the opportunity to get back into. counterterrorism after I left the. government or after I left the service, it's like. we need to defeat al Qaeda. Everybody's like, you can't defeat. terrorism. It's like I didn't say defeat terrorism. Terrorism. noun versus verb. We can defeat. al-Qaeda. Noun. We can't defeat. terrorism. verb. Got it. Al Qaeda is a.

fighting force. Definition to defeat is to render your. enemy incapable of, you know, uh, imposing their will on you. It can be. temporary state. It's not always, you. know, it's not always forever. They can. bounce back. So, I got fixated on that. because of the mistake I'd made in Iraq, not focusing on those that key leader, right? So, I'm at the DR um, National. Counterterrorism Center. I I had been in. the National Security Council, which is.

the the staff that works for the. president, right next door to the White. House. I was head I got a job from my. buddy, dear friend of mine, got me the. job. I was in charge of counterterrorism. and transnational threats, drug, human. trafficking, all that stuff at for the. president. U and I had this crazy idea. Always do your net assessment, right? You're you go in, you look at your enemy. and hey Sean, don't tell anybody. Oh, we're on TV. Uh, I had lost the focus on.

counterterrorism after I left the. service. I left in 14. It's now 17, 18. So, I need to get back up to speed and. what the enemy is doing. Find out. Focus on talking to the young. intelligence analysts. Don't talk to the. head people because they have to give. the party line. Go down to the people. that like How long you been studying. this? Six years, sir. Nobody's ever asked me a. question about, you know, whatever. Go. listen to those people. Determine that.

there are seven key leaders left in al. Qaeda. Zawheri number one, go all the. way through his son Hamza. I can go. through the names, but no one cares. I. said, "What happens if we kill those. seven?" Like, al Qaeda ceases to exist. Remember, Al Qaeda is like a. hierarchical, charismatic driven. organization, very elite. It's like. special operations. Let's be honest. So, like you can't replace special operators. quick. Al Qaeda was the equivalent of. special operations. Extremely elite,

well-trained, loyal, etc. So, what happens if we kill off these. seven? They're like, "Well, Al Qaeda. will no longer they'll be defeated." So, I came up with this insanely stupid. idea. I said, "Why don't we kill off the. final seven. by the 20th anniversary. of September 11th, 2001, and we'll drop. the mic and declare victory and be done. with this thing?" I got so much push.

back, but I was like, I don't care. because. why would you get push back from that? You want to know what I think it was? Seriously? Bureaucracy. We had created, you know, we talk about the military-industrial. complex. We had created a. counterterrorism industrial complex. where budget budgets went to. organizations. We expanded the. intelligence community incredibly. I. think they were like. I I don't think it was malicious, you. know, like, oh, we want this war to. continue forever. I just don't think I.

was helpful, you know, by saying, "No, we haven't we're going to win. You know, we we don't want to go political, but. you know, I I served, you know, 30 some. seven years in uniform or as a civilian. for any president. Left, right, in. between, didn't care. I spent one years. working for President Trump." Obviously, very partisan times. We don't even have. to go there. It's not That's not your. show. Oh, I got that. But, you know, he.

did say we're about winning. He did say. that. Mhm. So, I was like, well, let's go win. I. think there was just like we had gotten. so used to just like the grind. You you. live the grind, man. It seemed like. nobody knew what the hell the goal was. You know, we're we're it when I was in. it appeared that we were going after. lowhanging fruit and. they're just I I just And then and then.

you have this plan where you want to. take out the last seven al-Qaeda leaders. and nobody gets behind it. And it's it. and it's I've always wondered not always. once I left and I started looking into. all this stuff. Um. it just I and I continue to wonder what. what was the goal of this. I thought it. was the win and we came up with the plan. and I was like let's go do this and. worked back and forth uh and just kept.

working and working at this just. grinding away because in government it's. all about endurance. You know, it's a. war of attrition. It's like I'm just. going to outlast him and we'll keep. going on this. Uh but you know, I'm just. random. There there was a point of where. I was trying to go with this. I know. it's I'm just like sounds like I'm. rambling. Um just got absolutely fixated. on this idea of defeating Al Qaeda. because I thought it was I talked to all. I did an informal survey of like tons of.

veterans. I was like, "What do you think. we should do in Afghanistan? Like it's. time to come home." And I was really I. was really worried about what those who. had lost loved ones there thought or. those that had been injured across the. board. Everybody's like we gave it our. best shot. But I thought that by doing. this we could we could declare victory, pull out meaningfully. So that was the. whole that was the whole hustle. That. was the whole idea of like okay going to. do this. I know it sounds ridiculous. like my dumbass comes up with this idea.

So, we kept pushing on that and um I. ended up going to the National. Counterterrorism Center. I was like, "This is perfect. I can have more of a. role because it's it's higher position.". Uh but then. the president the the president was. unhappy with SE Mark Asper was secretary. of defense at the time and wanted to. change. So, uh, there were only three of.

us to to serve in an acting capacity. This is going to be legalistic, but it's. important to understand for some people. like the three people that actually care. about this that are listening, you have to be appointed by the. president and you have to be confirmed. by the Senate. Meaning, you have to go. up there and they wire brush you, you. know, and then they vote you out. You. can't just take over a cabinet position, a high level position like Joe [ __ ] the. ragman off the street. You can't do. that. you you can but it's not going to. work. You have to be presidentially.

appointed, Senate confirmed. That way. the Senate has had their Congress has. had their say. So there were only three. of us. I was one of them. President. called and asked that I replace him. So. obviously I I accepted that uh because. that's what we do, right? Go in there uh. and I'm like 73 days. Like I've been to. Ranger school. Ranger school is 60 days. You had you know this. I know because. you had some rangers on the show. It's. really good. I like that episode a lot. with the with your with the Delta.

Breacher. I forgot his name. Van. Chris Vanzan. Yeah, that was really cool. He gave a. great description about the difference. between being Ranger qualified and being. a United States Army Ranger. I love. that. Best uh description I've ever. heard. Uh, so I'm like I could stand on. my head for 73 days, done it for 60. Uh, not realizing everything that was going. into this that would happen. Um, but. that's how I ended up doing that, but I.

left. Then I left like boom, you're. done. Yeah. And I had no I had no understanding, no. idea what I was going to do. Not a clue. and didn't really like I said I got two. calls and that had to figure it out. myself just like you and just off we go. and here here we start again. Yeah, we'll figure it out, right? Well, let's um I haven't even given you. an intro yet. So, we'll start the uh. we'll start now, but so I just want to. give a brief intro just so everybody.

knows who you are uh if they don't. already. But military career 1983. to 2014, enlisted in the Army Reserve. infant as an infantryman in 1983 and. served in the DC National Guard as an. MP. Then you commissioned to become an. officer in 1987 with a bachelor's degree. in history from George Washington. University. You transferred to special. forces in 1993, honor graduate from Army.

Ranger School. numerous command and. staff positions within fifth fifth. special forces group. Uh multiple. deployments during the GWAD both to Iraq. and Afghanistan. Company commander of fifth special. forces in Afghanistan in 2001. Many more. deployments in other theaters. I know. you worked extensively with CIA in. Bosnia back I believe in the '9s. uh post military career.

Defense contractor for uh clan Vestine, special operations and intelligence. under. secretaries of defense for intelligence. and policy. Acting assistant secretary. of defense for special operations low. inensity conflict deputy assistance. Oh, deputy assistant secretary of defense. for special operations and combating. terror terrorism. director of National. Counterterrorism Center, former acting.

secretary to defense, and finally the. author of Soldier Secrety or Soldier. Secretary: Warnings from the battlefield. and the Pentagon about America's Most. Dangerous Enemies, which I cannot wait. to jump into that. And just some other stuff, you oversaw. the CO 19 vaccine roll out. I would love. to talk about that. oversaw personnel. reductions in Iraq and Afghanistan,

handled requests and questions, and. testified about the January 6 response, massive activation of the National Guard. members, and you took out some of the. top terrorists in the world throughout. your career. And most I can breathe again. That's. quite the career. Yeah. And a quarter. Well, if you're at. Starbucks, it'll be like $4.50. We'll. get you a cup of coffee, man. I mean, you know, most importantly, try to be a good husband, try to be a. good father, and try to be a good.

American. Yeah. So, thanks, man. Thanks. I always. get bored listening to that. It's really. just, you know, kid from Iowa who uh. came from a family. of public servants. My dad uh was a cop. and uh my mom, he said there's val. there's in there's there's intrinsic. value in public service. you know, get. paid a lot. And uh he he he literally. answered JFK's call. He was drafted,

served in the Korean War as an 11. Charlie mortman. Uh and like really got in it, you know, like Korea war. Come on, man. Like what. do they do? Couple years and it was just. like highintensity war and came back and. literally he said I heard that JFK what. what asked not what to do blah blah. blah. And he said I'm going to go into. government. I'm gonna try to make a. change. And uh he's always like there's. there's val intrinsic value in public. service. I I took that I took that [ __ ].

to heart, you know. So just was really. incredibly fortunate to be able to serve. our country, man. That's a. I know that sounds like really cliche. That's an incredible career, man. I just did my job, dude. Everybody that comes on gets a gift. What do you What? Well, you were up till 2 a.m. watching. the show last night. Any guesses? Nice. Nice. Vigilance Elite Gummy Bears. Yes.

Those are amazing. And believe it or. not, they're legal in all 50 states. Well done. And they're made in the USA. It's what you do, right? Giving it back. And yeah, made in the USA. You don't hear that. very often anymore, right? I really appreciate it. And uh my wife. will be tickled pink. Usually cuz come. on Sean. Usually I go on these things. I. don't. walk away with like lost six hours.

Uh not this one though. This is I'm. really excited about this one because. you talk about things that matter and. are important. And thank you. I don't think I have anything to add to. tell you the truth. But we'll let we'll. let your audience decide when you know. we get like wow we got 20,000 viewers. We went from 5 million last week to. 20,000. Yeah. But um I I do not think that's. going to happen. We have a lot to talk. about. I I want to. I don't want to spend too much time on. your career because it we'll be here a.

week covering all of that. Sure. Um but I do want to stress some of the. important things that you're a part of. So let's let's kind of start with where. you grew up. We'll talk about some of. the big missions that you did and some. of the key leaders that you've taken out. and then we'll dig into some of the [ __ ]. that's going on in the country and in. the world today. So, I know you grew up. in Iowa. Yep. Iowa City, Iowa. Uh spent some time. in the East Coast in New York, Delaware. Moved back to Iowa City. I think I was.

probably 10. My parents are from there. Dad decided to go home. I think my mom. probably pushed him a lot harder than. that. I'm just guessing. are still. alive, 94 years old, living in Iowa. Mom. still lives alone. Dad, dad, father has. the opportunity to live at the nursing. home now because he's no longer as. mobile as he should be. So, um, but. yeah, just like kind of that. I got I got no I got no bad news from my. youth. Like it's buolic, man. It was.

like great parents, great community. It. was that it was that like age of where. you just went off and did crap all day. long and your parents didn't care and. you didn't have a cell phone. It was. just like magical and just uh and then. just was like I got to get out Iowa. City, Iowa. What about you? You were in. Missouri, man. Did you I was in. Missouri. Did you like I just got this thing where. I was like it's a big world out there. And I was really fortunate that my. parents like always uh instilled in my. sister and me like this sense of.

adventure, this sense of. inquisitiveness, you know, like there's. a big world. I'm like, I got to go see. it. This little town's going to be the. death of me, you know? I was going to I. was going to be a Bruce Springsteen. song, you know. What do you What What. about you? What about me? Why'd you leave Missouri? You know, I just left Missouri for the. military and and I joined. You did 17. You were 17 or 18? Yeah, I I joined at 17 in the in the. delay. Get your parents to sign off for you.

Yep. Had to get my dad to sign off for. it. Um, you know, I I joined them. I. didn't feel like I had any other. options. Okay. I wasn't a great student. I didn't. really take sports very seriously, nor. was I very good at any of them. I was pretty much into chasing women and. drinking beer. And um. What kind of cards you have? I had a. Ford Probe. Dude, I thought you were going to give. me Trans Am. I wish. I had a 1982 truck that I.

destroyed immediately by taking off-road. and then I got a Ford Probe. You're not taking that off-road. And uh Nope. Nope. And uh but but yeah, that's I I. didn't feel like I had any other. options. And um and and and and honestly. I was always drawn to the military. Yeah. Why? So uh my dad did a a stent in the. military when I was in or when I was a. young kid, fourth grade I think he.

joined and uh at that time the golf war. was going on. We got deployed to. Germany. My dad was in the medical. field. So I saw a lot of these guys. coming in and out of Germany. I saw all. the books. I bought all the books. I. bought all the GI Joes and I just. I was just always infatuated with. Isn't that weird? Isn't that weird? Like somehow that. triggers something in some of us and. other people like. Yeah. don't care cuz I had I had the same.

thing, man. It was, you know, Vietnam had wrapped down. I was born in. ' 65. Um and I I remember there were. only three TV channels then. Remember? You could get like the fourth UHF. You. could get some weird thing out of. Philadelphia where you could watch Speed. Racer or something. But, you know, when. my dad came home, it wasn't like now my. kids watch whatever they want. 2,000. channels, watch whatever you want. Uh, in those days, the old man came home. My. mom, I'm never allowed to call my dad.

the old man. I said that once to my mom. Only time she got upset with me. She's. like, "You do not refer to your father. as the old man." I was like, "Whoa.". So, I take it back. Mom, my father would come home from work and. guess what? He took over the TV. You're. gonna watch CBS Evening News with Walter. Kronite. It was like, I don't want to do. homework. What are you going to do? You're going to watch the news. So, I'm. like I was just this weirdo kid who was.

watching the news and you know, and then. you had to read the paper. That was like. one of the things like some assignment. So, I'm reading like Vietnam and stuff. I'm like, "Holy crap.". And somehow that just, you know, and. then my uncles and my dad, I I I just. like I guess you have to serve. And but. it didn't, you know, it bothered me at. first, you know, when you're like when. you're younger and you're seeing caskets. coming home with flags on them. And I. remember asking my dad, I like, why do.

they I mean flags? He goes, "Uh, flags are put on caskets only if. you've served." And I don't know if. that's true or not. I have no idea. I. don't think it's actually true. But. that, you know, when you're like five, six years old and you have these weird. things like that resonated. I'm like, so. if I don't serve, I'm not going to have. this is the connection I made. So. adolescent, you know, uh, and it just. terrified the thought, but I was like,

I'm going to serve. I mean, this is what. we do. So what and I don't come from a. family of like oh you know my. great-grandfather served in. in the civil war you know or. revolutionary war. As a matter of fact. my family left Germany in 1848. They. were draft dodgers because that was like. when like the Prussians or whoever the. hell it was you know fighting and they. got drafted and they're like we're out. of here. So I think it's hilarious that. I come from a long line of draft. dodgers. So, but but but you know, I I.

always wonder like something triggered. in us this desire to go serve combat. Yeah, that's what we do, right? That's. why would you join if that wasn't the. goal? Oh, I want to get my college. money. Hey, good with you if you want. your college money. But you don't go. into Navy Seals or Army Special. Operations if you're looking for college. money, right? Yeah. You don't. Yeah. I just I think it's one of those. those question. I still kind of wonder. about it. And then then uh I'll tell you. the.

the the one only thing that really. mattered in my military career was uh. response to September 11, 2001. I you know I say in my book I was I. let's see I'd been an officer. I got. commissioned in ' 87. Don't do public math 13 14 years. And I was in fifth special forces group. just up the road. But I'm heading up. there after this to see see some folks. And I just. um I had a really tough boss, battalion.

commander. I'm not going to not going to. tell you his name. He's really really. tough, man. And I was like, why am I. putting up with this [ __ ] anymore? And I went home on the 10th of. September. I swear to I swear this is. true story. Got two little We had three kids. They're all screwing off. My wife and I. always have a cocktail kind of day's.

over, you know, let's catch up. Man, I. got that day I got really deep. I was. had a I was probably into my fourth beer. and I said, "These are small times for. small people." I said, "We're getting. out. I'm leaving. I'm leaving the. service. My wife is like, "Good. About. time.". My wife, you know, you're way more. talented than this stupid army crap. And. of course, I didn't believe her. And I.

lit September 11th, I went into work and. I was going to resign my commission that. day. Uh, go run. Have you ever been to Fort. Campbell? There's this thing called. Clark. There's this thing. You got to. go. You got to go up there. There's this. thing called Clarksville base. This is. Cold War Legacy. Crazy story. Won't bore. you. Hilarious. I'm out there with uh. the sergeant I worked with. Uh I was a. company commander. He was a company. sergeant major. Just magnificent man.

Went for a run. Just the two of us. We. didn't go with the unit or anything. It. was our time to like talk shop, right? Got in the car and I'm driving back to. work and John Boy and Billy show that's. still on. The John Boy and Billy show is. still on. It was new then. It was really. this edgy edgy uh you know morning talk. show and you know they were always. hooting it up and comedic and whatnot. and all of a sudden they stopped and. they're like hey we have a report of a.

plane hitting. one of the towers at the World Trade. Center and like the whole tone of the. discussion it went from joular like oh. you know you know fart jokes or. something to like just stopped and it. was completely and it got serious. I was. like, "Oh, damn." Then somebody came on, they're like, "Oh, a plane hit the. Empire State Building in 1944 or. something. Maybe it's just an accident.". I was like, "This isn't an accident.". Got back to work, walked into the.

military intelligence shop because we. didn't have TVs everywhere then. Crappy. barracks, crappy work space. Uh, and the. only TVs were in the military. intelligence section. I walked in there. and I saw the second plane hit and I was. like, "Is that a rerun?" And everybody's. like, "No." It's like, "Was that a rerun. of the first attack?". Mhm. So saw that and at that point I was. like, "I guess I'm not getting out of. the service." And the most important.

thing I did in my entire professional. life was respond to that attack. and um. and went in. was uh went down went down to uh Tampa, Florida where the United States Central. Command is, the command that's overseas. the Middle East and United States. Special Operations Command is there as. well. So I went down, my boss, who I had. known from a previous assignment, asked. me to go down with one sergeant.

uh to be our to be the planner. So we. get down there. It's called Special. Operations Command Central Sax. Central. Commands, Special Operations Component. They were. out in this old Cold War bunker, ammo. bunker. Show up out there. I'm a major, new major, you know, pretty junior. And. the counterterrorism task force had. taken over. And they're the lead planners. And I'm a.

Green Beret, so I'm nothing, right? I'm. not special mission unit guy. I'm just. like, "Oh, you're like," they called it. white soft then. You know, I'm white and. black soft. Black was the secret like, you know, Seal Team Six and Delta Force. and all those folks, right? So, they're they take over the planning. space. Fortunately, I knew a buddy who. was and he let me in. So, I I'm like, "Shit, Green Beret, man. Figure this. stuff out." And I'm in there and they. planned the initial operations where.

they took Rangers jumped into that. airfield, Objective Rhino, out in the. desert. You had a guy on that talked. about it and then they also stormed uh. Moola Omar who was the head of the. Taliban. He had this beautiful compound. that he built in Kandahar. They raided. that thing and Omar was gone, but they. shot the [ __ ] out of the place. It was. brilliant operation. It was our It was a. kind of our first big operation of the. war. helicopter hard landed. Had some. bad problems. I don't think we Nobody. got killed. A couple people got injured.

on some hard landings. So. I go down to go down there to help plan. All of a sudden one day this. counterterrorism experts just disappear. They're gone. Poof. And somebody yells, "Do we have any green berets here? What do you need?". They're like, "We need to plan an. unconventional warfare campaign.". Unconventional warfare is where green. berets go behind enemy lines. Think.

World War II France where small. commandos jumped in behind enemy lines, linked up with the resistance, the McKe, the French resistance, got them. ammunition, helped them train, help. plan, and then help lead them to tear up. the rear the the German forces that were. behind the beaches that we were landing. at. That's unconventional warfare. Go. behind enemy lines, link up with the. resistance force or to overthrow the. government. And that we had never done.

that before in the history of special. forces. We were found in 1951. It's like I know how to do that. So we. planned, we did the campaign. Uh I was. part of the planning element that did. the campaign. Then I got to go do it. You got to do it. So I always always find your. replacement. I'm like I'm going to get. stuck down here missing another war. I. missed Panama. I missed Desert Storm. I'd missed everything. And you tal Sean,

you brought it up like a Super Bowl, right? You don't join like, "Oh, I just. want to stay here and you know, Fort. Campbell and u you know, take my kids to. the daycare center and coach soccer." I. I missed everything. And I saw it. happening again. I'm like, I'm going to. get stuck down here while my unit goes. and prosecutes this war. always find. your replacement. Got a guy to come in. to back fill me. Off I go pick up uh the.

remainder. So the entire group had. deployed to Kari Kanaba Newsbekiststan. which was our Ford operating base or. advanced operating base. So we set up in. Newspakistan. which we now know is a toxic waste dump. with radiological material. I can go on. all day about that. But at the time we. didn't care because like we were going. to bring vengeance on behalf of the. United States. the people of the United. States, we are going to bring vengeance. to these sons of [ __ ].

So we go to Beckistan, the group's over there. I show back up, you know, I'm back. There are five A. teams left. A team is 12 special green. berets. It's the unit of choice for. special forces. You know, you got, you've heard this before, you got two. weapons experts, you got two medical. experts that are like doctors. You got. two engineers that know demolition and. construction. You have two communicators. that know how to do signal, you know, that to work the radios. You've got a.

two senior NCOs that do intelligence and. operations. And then you have two. officers. You have a warrant officer. And those 12 people go behind enemy. lines and they can train. They can lead. up to 1,200 indigenous forces, you know, guerillas. So that's what we're going to. do, right? I show up, everybody's gone. We have five A teams left. Get the call. Miller, bring over the final five A.

teams. Go over uh fly over um and get the. Usbakistan. This is Thanksgiving Day of. 2020 2001. You want a killer deal? I've got one for. you. A free Moto G 5G phone from Pure. Talk. No gimmicks, no tradein necessary. Just sign up for Pure Talk's unlimited. talk, text, and 15 gig data plan for. just 35 bucks and get the Moto G 5G.

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war book book called the good war this. book about. um World War II and he interviewed his. oral history interviewed all these. famous people senators titans of. industry you know all these people that. have been fabulously successful and he. asked what was the most important thing. you did in your career they're like June. 6th 1944 four as an 18-year-old machine. gunner in the first infantry division. They're like, "Holy, holy crap. You're. Speaker of the House of Representatives. now. You're one of the most powerful.

people in the world." They're like, "None of this compares. That was the. most important thing I did." I feel the. same way about that operation. You asked. like, "Tell me about your career." None. of it really matters except that one. operation where I was like I couldn't. believe that I had been given the. opportunity to be in the unit fifth. special forces group which everybody. made fun of like why would you ever go. there you know their five special forces.

groups why don't you go to 10th group. where you can go to Germany and or. seventh group to South America they're. all regionally aligned you know and ours. is the Middle East nobody wants no. offense It's like, oh, I can go to I can. go to Cardahania in Colombia and make. Max PDM like $200 a day, you know, have. a really good time. Uh, or if you're in. the first special forces group in the. Pacific, like, hey, Thailand training. with Thai special forces, that's a.

pretty good gig, right? Mhm. We had the Middle East. We were the. laughingstock. But when the work came to. us, you know, I was in the unit that. went there and it just. at the end end of the day, it's just. blind chance. Work hard. Holy cow. Pure. luck that I was there. But that. everything else I did in my mil my. career my career period don't matter. It was a pretty extensive career. How. did that operation go?

Uh we took the the joint special. operations command or was responsible. for uh getting bin Laden. Our job in. special forces was to take down the. Taliban. Unconventional warfare. We were. overthrowing a government with. indigenous forces, resistance forces, guerilla forces. So our job was to. overthrow the Taliban government. We. were, let's see, they attacked us on.

September 11th. Um, we took uh the. government changed on December 7th. So, it happened that fast. Yeah. Yeah. So, I thought we did. I. think historically it will go down as. the most um brilliant irregular warfare. unconventional warfare campaign probably. in the history of the world. Hasn't. really been studied yet. I'm kind of. hoping somebody does some serious study.

on it. The issue is we ended up losing, right? Well, we ended up losing. Before we go the whole length, if you. want somebody to study it, then let's. dig in right now. So, what was step one in your planning. process? I mean, that's a huge. task. I was I was intimidated. I had checked. this out. At a certain point, if you're. uh an officer, you go to this thing. called the command and general staff. college. Usually about 10 years uh of.

service and you go and get your master's. degree and you learn about operational. art, big war stuff, right? I got to go to that Newport, Rhode. Island. Um, so I learned that stuff, but. then all of a sudden you're having to do. it. and you're like, "Wow, this isn't school. work anymore." You know what I got lucky. with though? What's that? There was this senior warrant officer. A. warrant officer is between a.

non-commissioned officer, sergeant, and. a commissioned officer, lieutenant, captain, etc. There's this beautiful and. you have them in the Navy Seals, limited. duty officers and petty or do you you. have warrant officers in we have. warrants. Warrant officers are uh they. do one thing their whole career. So they. become subject matter experts and. professionals. Usually they're. helicopter pilots or intelligence. people. Special forces also has warrant. officers. So they are the continuity. They are the experts on everything. And.

there was this old grizzled warrant. officer and he was he was a little bit. of an iconoclast. He used to paint one. his his pinky fingernail. He would like. do artwork on it and I was like that's. moxy. I mean you know you've got some. throw weight when you can paint your. fingernail and nobody says to remove the. fingernail polish. This guy was a. genius.

And I said, "Chief, what do I do?" You. know what he Come on, sir. So, he had. it. He like figured it out. We worked. together over two nights. and cuz we were moving really, really. fast, Sean. We were moving fast. This. isn't like, oh, you know, do a concept. development and submit it in 60 days and. then we'll review it and send you back. feedback in 60 days. just like and I.

didn't. they talk about special forces like. you're going to do strategically. important things that will be tracked by. the White House and I was like yeah. whatever come on say save me the public. relations campaign we're doing that like. this chief and I are feeding we're not. the ones briefing it but we're feeding. this concept in that literally is not. taking 60 days it's going from us doom. doom Boom. Pentagon, White House.

Yeah. Yeah. So, we got it done, man. So, can can we get a little I mean, if. we can't Can we get a little. If we can, I would love to get a little. more elaborate. I mean, you've just been. tasked with taking out the Taliban. government, going behind enemy lines, linking up with the resistance force. Who's the resistance force? How are you. going to link up with them? How are you going to overthrow that. government? How are you going to insert. I mean, where do you This is huge. picture. I mean, this is big picture. way above my pay grade. How do you. start?

Above mine, too. Uh what was what's step one? Step one was what is the resistance. potential? Are there any groups that we. can link up with that will accept us? And of course, there was this thing. called the Northern Alliance. The leader. of the Northern Alliance was Akmmed. Massud who had been killed by this uh. al-Qaeda attack where they had a. deception op where they showed up on the. 10th of September with a film crew from. some Arabic television station. The film. crew, the camera was rigged with.

explosives. They blew the thing up and. killed Massud, destroying the leadership. of the Northern Alliance. Right? So. there was already in existence this. resistance group that was all up north. that was really very segmented, balkcanized. They've been pushed back. They were about to get defeated. So it. was pretty simple at that point. Like we. got the north, right? Your point though, like how do you get there? My boss at. the time was this guy named he's now. retired general John Mhalland.

Mohalland. just absolutely epitome of. commander. gentleman really Vince Lombardi though. really really hard on you like you're. going to perform he's the commander of. the fifth special forces group. and we got to fly we got to fly. helicopters through the Hindu Kush the. Himalaya mountains right. to link up with these uh groups of the.

Northern Alliance that had been. selected. So you got a 12 per 12man A. team up in Usbekiststan. They're going. to get on a helicopter. They're going to. fly down. They're going to land in the. middle of the night, literally middle of. the night, on a grid coordinate with the. expectation that when they get off that. helicopter. and they show, you know, they got the. red fence flashlight and go, you know, turn like when you come off the.

helicopter, turn to 62 degrees magnetic. and click your flashlight four times. This is what these this is what these. kids are doing. Man, this is old school. I. it's Dude, I remember these days. This is like the This is old school. You. know what our GPS were? We bought Garmin. ERS. It was the first generation of uh. commercially available GPS government. What did the military have? They had. this huge like lowran like GPS things.

that was this big, remember? And you. only got like one of those per 400. people, right? You didn't have that. We. all had these first generation ERS, you. know. Um, but that was about as. technologically sophisticated as we had. But here was where I was going with. this. Mhalland. is getting his ass beat by the Pentagon. because each night the weather. conditions would collapse and he. wouldn't launch forces in helicopters. because he's like, they're going to.

crash, right? And. that's moral courage, you know? Can you. imagine? He's an ' 06. That's relatively. junior person in the whole scheme of. things. We have fourstar generals. He's. in charge of the response, an ' 06. colonel of special forces, and he keeps. saying no to in they call it. infiltration, as you know, right? Conditions don't match. We're going to. lose a helicopter. Finally, skies open. and we make our first successful infill.

the guy that well horse soldiers go on. all day but Moholland they I understand. they were planning the Pentagon was. planning to fire him because they didn't. think he was aggressive enough gate uh. who is the sect Rumsfeld the secretary. of defense Rumsfeld comes out to. Usbekiststan. several weeks later. Moholland has him fly on a 160th special. operations aviation regiment.

MH H47 Chinook like helicopter, big. helicopter. The route that the first. infiltration went in. They're pictures. of them. You can find them online, Sean. These they're literally going through. canyons like this with 10 ft on each. side of the rotor because remember how. high it was. Mhm. They're they're already flying it. You. know what's the you can probably get I. don't know. We're going to get some. comments about, you don't know what an.

MH47's capable of, but it's like 20,000. foot bird. These things are working at. the absolute extreme end of the envelope. because they're in the Himalayas, right? And then then anecdotally, and I think. it's true, Rumsfeld goes, "Oh, I get it. now." Like he's terrified. So we get in. there, right? the boys get in there, link up, and then it's game on. And big. army, big military. I think the whole. plan was like, this is going to take,

you know, the whole idea was we would. get resistance potential and we would. winter over because they're like, no. one's ever won in Afghanistan in the. winter. And the idea was. that we would link up with the Northern. Alliance, make an enclave, secure. enclave in the north because there's. this key bridge that runs between. Usbekistsan, Freedom Bridge. I forgot. the name of the river. I forgot all this. stuff, but this key bridge and then the.

military was going to bring down an. armored division by rail. Then they're going to get off. They were. gonna like move these ar this armored. division across this bridge and then in. the spring, you know, we were gonna have. we're gonna march on Berlin again. It. was going to be great. Tanks going. through that tunnel. That was Did you. know that was the plan? I did not know that. Yeah, I'm not making this up, man. So, we're like, we're Green Beretss.

We're going to exploit success and we're. going to exploit success every place we. get. and you've done Afghanistan. Once. you have once you have the momentum, everybody started surrendering. You got. Green Berets, they've got their Afghan. Northern Alliance forces, got B-52s. coming over. You've heard these stories where like. there would be a Taliban controlled town. or Al Qaeda controlled town. Green. Berets with their gorillas would show.

up. the uh gorillas, they all had icon. radios, you know, very simple like. walkie-talkies essentially, right? They would talk to the Taliban or Al. Qaeda force who they already knew. because it was their cousin or. something. They're like, "Hey man, like. shit's up for you guys. You really want. to do this?" Like, "Well, we have to. like save face." So they'd be like, you. know, the Taliban. shoot a little and then we just like our. gorillas would just like lay into them.

and then you drop you drop ordinance all. around them like all around them like. you want to keep doing this because the. next sorty is coming right on you. You. see what we can do? They're like we're. done. So we got momentum, right? We're. just moving but the problem's the south. So we get to Baghdad Baghdad. Oh my god, all these names. Is that hilarious, dude? Hit hit cobble. Uh, get the Bram, which is the major air.

base Soviet setup. Okay, we got the. north. Problems the south, dude. That's. where uh Moola Omar headed the Taliban. Their government capital is in Kandahar. You've been. like, "Oh, damn." Uh, no northern. alliance up there. There were some elements down there. Gulagurzi. uh Carzi Carzi. uh who saw which way things are going. They're like, "Okay, when do we get some.

green berets? It's game on, dude." So, we went down there. I went in uh I was I. make I make fun of this, but it's true. Uh assault landing credit. You familiar. with assault landing credit? You get a. special badge if you are in a initial. assault. Like it's D-Day stuff. Like you. get a special like if you rolled into. D-Day on June the 6th, 1944, you got a. special ribbon. It's called salt landing. credit. It's big deal, man. It's like.

one of those if you see somebody with. that ribbon. You're like, they're the. real deal. You know, it's not an everyman medal. uh salt landing credit ended on um I. think the 5th of December. of 2001. I literally. I ended up they say 200 people. 200 intelligence officers from CIA. paramilitary. and special operators from the military.

200 of us are credited with defeating. the Taliban. Dude, I am 199. I landed at. literally the equivalent of 235959. on June 6, 1944. where all the fighting's over, bodies in. the water. I'm just like step, you know, I'm like I I was like literally the. second to last person to land in. Afghanistan to be part of that 200. So I. want to be very very clear. I'm such a.

small part of that operation. And like I. got in at the literally the last moment. We dropped on December 5th. We. accidentally dropped a 2,000lb joint. direct attack munition bomb on our own. position. I'm at its beakistan. I I had. established a quick reaction force with. the company with the team I was with. on that day. I I had been desperate to.

get a mission, desperate to get a mission. And I see. the war ending, right? It's very easy to. see the war's coming to an end. And I'm. like, it's happening again. And I would every day I would go in and. write up a concept of operation and try. to sell it to the leadership like, you. know, I we really need to go in, not I, we really need to go in to do whatever. Mhm. It's having no luck. And it was December. 5th. I got up that morning and I said,

"I'm not I'm not doing it anymore. I'm. failing." I went to the We had this. crappy tent for a gym with this like. shitty Bowlex. Remember the Bow Flex. things? And Sean, it had this uh exercise bike. Like they must have got it at JC Penney. in like 1965. this thing. It couldn't. run because they u the Air Force. Redhorse engineers that set up the camp. had used these huge stones like not.

gravel. He the gravel was like this big. You couldn't run because you break your. ankle. So I'm I'm on that stupid. exercise bike. It's dark out, freezing. And then I'd go to the bow flex thing. and I walk back to go to the chow hall. cuz I was done for the day. You know. what all my guys were doing? You know. what all the guys were doing? They they. brought this huge big screen TV. Like. this was before flat screens. It was the. one you know that weighs like 600 lb.

Remember those things with the vacuum. with the tube in back? They sat there. They set that up in our. tent and they watched every episode. Still still CDs. It wasn't Netflix. They. brought like they watched every episode. of The Sopranos, Friends, you name it. And here I am. working, right? And they're just. screwing off. They're like, "Screw the. major. He'll figure this out." So that. day I was going to watch the dog on. Sopranos with everybody. And as I'm.

going to the chow hall, I see this. frenzied activity over at the operations. center. And I walk over and they said. ODA 574. uh which was the A team 12 person A team. that was with Carzi's forces just called. they've got mass casualty. I was like oh. damn okay what's going on and I listened. and the kid Jason Amarine is the team. leader dude did you ever see this? I.

read sometime once about. You can tell a true leader because the. more pressure they're under, the calmer. their voice is. I have I'm not that way, man. I'm screechy. I'm like, "The. world's coming to an end. Help me." I. hear Jason on the radio, and I knew. Jason. He was team leader in the company. I commanded. We had six A teams. He was. the team leader of the freef fall team. And Jason gives a situation report over.

the radio. like absolutely as if he was talking on. the phone to his girlfriend just. completely smooth. I was like I got. emotional man still do. And it's like. game on man. He's like uh we have been. hit by a large explosive. They didn't. know at the time it was a friendly fire. I've got three dead. Everybody's. wounded. Boom boom boom boom boom. Just. going down the list. I was like, "Okay, that's what we make the quick reaction. force for." Walked over to the tent. All.

the fellas are like. watching Sopranos. I was like, "Get your. [ __ ] on." And I'm like a happy golucky. guy, right? And I'm like laughing and. joking and all and they looked up at me. and they're like, they thought it was a. joke. I was like, "I'm not bullshitting. Get your [ __ ] on. We're going." And then. you can kind of see like then the team. starts like get your [ __ ] on. Let's go. And uh we flew down there and and uh and.

uh replaced the destroyed team and uh. then went to Kandahar and ended the war. two days later. Damn. Well, ended the war, I should say. We. ended that phase of the war. Yeah, that was way too long of a story, man. You You need to like You need to like. give me You need to give me the You can. You can edit all that crap out. What. what happened when you got down there? Hit town. Um. landed. Um all right. So I'm inspectan.

We need to get to Kandahar. That's like. what is that? Like 2,000 miles. It's a. longass way. Um we get on to an MC130. special operation combat tail talon. um special operations C130. We we we get on the truck, we're all. sitting there and all of a sudden the.

supply sergeant comes running out and. starts giving us stuff like, "Hey, here's your radios. Got our blood shits, remember?" You. know, like like when you go into combat, you have your blood [ __ ] your get out. of jail free card. Like if you know, ple. we will pay you what is it a million. dollars now or whatever. You know what. I'm talking about? So, we're getting this in the back of. this 2 and 1/2 ton truck. We're all. lined up in there. We've got our kit. Uh. I take my rucks sack. Nobody else does.

They take small I I take my sleeping. bag. Like, so Sean, I'm the guy with. this big ass rucks sack. Everybody else. has three-day pack. This is before this. great kit that we have now. I mean, this. is like pretty rudimentary. We're sitting there. We're like, "Okay, let's go." Supply sergeant starts giving. us this stuff out. I'm like, "Wow, this. is just great." We finally get all our. kit when we're getting on the helicopter. to go into combat. But that's all right, man. We got our got some radios, got her. krypto, you know, all that crap. Drive.

out to the MC130, ramps down, get on that thing in. Usbekistan, and there are a whole bunch of dudes on. there already. All right. I don't know about you, man, but the way I was trained was like train. how you're going to fight and all that. stuff. It's like I'm like whatever. We get on. about 20 of us. and we're flying, dude. And it's a long. flight, man. It's a long way. We're.

going to fly into Rhino, which is Ranger. U. The Marines had capped Rangers had. dropped in on Rhino, which was this air. strip in the middle of the desert that. the Middle Eastern or Persian Gulf. royalty would fly out to. It was a. private airirstrip where they would go. falconing. I'm not making this up. Really? I'm not making this up. So, we. captured Marines came up, captured that. So, we're going to fly in to uh.

Objective Rhino, which is now an airirst. strip. It's a longass flight. And then. I'm sitting there and the pilot goes, "Who's in charge here?" I kind of look. around. You've been in this like you. never want you never want to hear who's. in charge, right? Nothing good's going. to come from who's in charge, right? I like [ __ ] I guess I am. Then I. realized who the other people are. It's. a forward surgical team. These are all. doctors. So they because we had a mass.

casualty. So they loaded up and going to. the guns, right? You got to love that, right? Like these dudes are like there's. some Americans in need. They're we're. going. I don't even know if they had. approval to tell you the truth. I don't. care. So you got like you got all these. doctors and medical technicians and they. all outrank me. I was like [ __ ] They're. They're not real They are They are real. officers, but they're not tactical. officers. So, I pull out You remember. your right in the rain? Uh.

pad. Remember? Yeah. The green notebook. The green notebook. Pull my pad out. I'm sitting there and I. still have this. I write mission. I. can't what remember what is. We will. infiltrate to def defeat Taliban. Blah. blah blah. commander's intent. You know, I just do a really quick field order. really quick, signed it, and then I just. handed it off to the person. I said, "Pass it around." So, everybody reads.

this thing. It comes back to me. I. looked at it recently. It was like the. worst operation order I've ever written. I mean, it was pathetic, but I was like, I have to make sure everybody knows. what's going on and what we're going to. do here and get everybody focused. Fly, fly, fly. You're like, "What are. you going into?" Right. And landed. landed uh we landed at objective Rhino. We're going to get off. We're going to. run across.

uh about 75 m to two uh uh MH53. um best helicopter ever made, special. operations helicopters. We're going to. get on those. We're going to fly to can. north of Kandahar where the mass. casualty was. We would get off. Casualties would get rolled on. We would. then replace them and continue to fight. So we get down there to dog on Man, I'm.

talking too much. No, keep going. We get down there to objective Rhino. I flashed back to Ranger school and I. was like, I'll be the last one off the. MC130 because one of these morons is. going to leave something important. They're going to forget something. You. know what I'm talking about? I do. It's like, so they all get run off. It It's like talcum powder brown. You've.

been in brown out. You You know what I'm talking about. like where it's literally you can't see. the sun. There's so much because those. C130 engines are ripping 53 rotors. This. is like it's dark. It's just really you. can't see [ __ ] They literally go off. into the dust with my FL my surefire. checking everything out. Okay. Nobody. left anything or somebody actually did. leave something but I was like it's not. that important. I was worried. So, um, I.

go jump off the back of the C130 and I'm. running thinking I'm pretty cool. Sean, like. thinking this will work in the movie, step in a pothole. full of couldn't see it right because. it's full of dust. I just flipped, dude. And I was like, "Oh [ __ ] I just broke.

my ankle.". Oh, damn. You have you broken? No. I was like, "Damn.". I'm like, and I look and and this Marine, no t-shirt, wearing this, remember this. shitty uh tanker goggles? Yeah. Comes running up cuz he sees me. flip. He's right near me. He's like, "Jesus Christ, are you all right?" And I.

put and I I'm like, "Oh man, this is. going to hurt." Then he sees my rank cuz. I had my rank on. And of course, like. true Marine, he's like, "Oh my god, sir. I'm so sorry." I'm like, "It's all. right. It's all right. It's all right.". Sean, I look back. So, I'm lying there, C130 ramp down, and I'm looking into. that. I'm like, I could just get back. onto that plane and just fly back to. Pakistan and be done with this whole.

thing. I clearly have injured myself, right? I was like, that was it probably was a. nanocond, but it seemed like this really. drawn out like, you know, I'm playing the whole video and then I'm. like, you you dumbass, get going. Stumble, like literally. stumble onto the helicopter. All I can remember from medical training. is don't take off your boot. Remember,

cuz it'll start swelling. I was a dumbass. And I didn't My med kit. was in I had it in my back. Yeah. Cuz we didn't know what we were doing. then, dude. We didn't know what we were. doing. I had my medical kit. I'm crammed onto this 53. I can't move. Certainly can't even get to my It's so. loud. I can't tell somebody, "Hey, can. you give me my medical kit?" And I'm. like, I'm just going to ride this one. in. We fly. And what I remember, I have.

photos of this. Like the helicopter, you would you would feel like your. pressure was going down like you were. getting jammed into your seat and then. all of a sudden you go weightless. We. didn't have we're not no seats in this. training anymore. You're not belted in, you know. Now you have those hooks that. you hook into. We didn't have any of. that crap. Then just like man and then I. realized they were you special operators.

never fly during daylight and we're. doing a daylight in we're doing a. daylight mission. So they're doing nape. of the earth because the idea is the. lower you can get. I don't know why we. do this in the desert. I get it when. you're doing it in like in the forest. The idea is you fly so low that they. can't shoot at you or a surfacetoair. missile can't lock on before you pass. over. I'm like, I don't think that. shit's going to work in the desert. But. hey, far be it from me, right? We were. doing Cold War tactics, right? Mhm. They fly into the earth and then there,

you know, how they had the mountains, they'd like. like that and that would be us getting. pushed into the chair and then dude, you. would come off the knife's edge. I don't know. It was probably 10 ft. It. felt like you could have reached out and. touched the ground and then they would. just dump it right back and then you'd. go weightless, right? It was like that. vomit comet thing for the astronauts. And I was like, "Okay, this is the real. deal here, man. We're not This isn't. training anymore. Flatten level.".

Yeah. We land, get out. I'm no [ __ ] Pink. Floyd, dark side of the moon is what I. thought. We get off that thing. I'm. looking around. this it's a stone age, man. I was like, "Holy shit.". And uh linked up. There was a CIA. officer there. So, we get off the get. off the helicopter. You know what you're. supposed to do. Set up like a perimeter. You know how you run off and you throw.

yourself down and there, dude, there are. thousands of Afghans just rambling. around. They don't You don't That's not a. training scenario you get at Buds, is. it? M. we're in a workup. No, I never seen this scenario. We're like, well, are we supposed to shoot these. mother? What are we supposed to do? And. I'm like, we're not going to do a damn. thing. So I said, we're not. I just. walked off said, come on, let's go. Everybody's And now this is the. leadership thing where I know the fellas.

are like, Miller, we always knew he was. an idiot. We always thought he was an. idiot. Now we know he's an idiot cuz. we're not doing the playbook. I just. walk down. I see a road. I walked to the. road and we just sat down next to the. road. Had a cigarette. Just sat there. Como guy puts his radio up, tries to. make comms, nothing. Dog on pickup. truck. Hilux comes whipping by. This. guy, legendary CIA officer, who I won't. refer to here, but you've met.

with this great bushy bust mustache. goes, "Hey, cowboy. Need a lift?". You could knock me over with a feather. Right. So surrealistic. I'm like, "Yeah, we do." We load up in the truck. We go. down to where Carzi's uh Carzi is in. this schoolhouse. 2,000 pounder came out on this hill. right above him. There's a schoolhouse. There's a medical. clinic. Um Carzai like got.

got mirror fell and cracked him in the. head or some crap. Whatever. Uh but we. get to the schoolhouse and we're like. Cararzi, he's going to be the next. president of this country. Taliban are. that way. Got a mass casualty. We get. off, they start hauling there. Two other. 47 U 53s. So we see we get off and we. see over here they're moving all the. casualties on these two other birds. So.

we didn't back fill them like we. planned. I didn't care at that point. Right. And final point, uh, it's like, so you're in combat now, right? Which Super Bowl, right? Yeah. Got a bum leg already. I'm limping. around. I'm like, oh my god, this is. quintessential Chris Miller. Like, oh. gee, I finally get to the big show and. hurt myself. It's all right. Um, so we put in everybody was obviously. pretty shattered, either injured,

concussed. Well, that same thing, you. know what I mean? But. the force that was there was we're like, we just got to give them some time off. So, we put in security around there, right? And uh I remember jumping into this. hole. You know where this goes. I like this. good fighting position. That's where the J dam hit. And I. remember looking down, Sean, and I was like, who's been eating. hamburger out here?

Oh, man. Dude, I didn't know that that's. what happened to human flesh or human. body when it's eviscerated. And I was like, damn, this is for real. And uh so that was that was my arrival. in Afghanistan. We uh moved on the the. capital of uh it was I always like to. say we captured I I was like I captured. Kandahar, dude. It was just like a we. just drove. There was no no resistance.

The enemy was defeated and uh the war. end that stage of the war ended a couple. days later. Damn. Let's take a quick break. Sure. When we come back. I'm I'm spending too much time on silly. stuff. I know. No, no, it's good. It's good. Let's take. a quick break. Next on the Shawn Ryan. Show. The leader of ISIS was Abu Bakr. Elbaghdaddy. So, what I have to say to all my loved. ones in Prescuit.

is that I will always love you. I. mean, I usually don't do good and evil. When you're talking about your enemy, I. don't think it's helpful. I think it. colors your judgment. I've been here too long and I've been. very sick and it's it's very terrifying. here. My name is Caleb Mueller. I need. your help. This guy was the definition of evil. Uh. he. was an evil man. He kept her in his captivity, his.

personal captivity. [Music]. She was a beautiful woman. Beautiful. young woman. Helped people. She was. there to help people. Baghdad daddy, evil of evil, but everybody's looking for him. His. trade craft is really good. He would burn people alive. He had them. put kids in cages. When our intelligence. officers put their mind to it and our. special operators put their mind to it,

you can run, but you can't hide. Hey everybody, I'm Shawn Ryan. Click. here to subscribe to the Shaun Ryan Show. YouTube channel for the hottest and most. compelling interviews that you will not. see anywhere else. I've also made a. playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find. You. can find that right here.