Chief Hallgrimson - Chief of Police Guilty of Assault After Rescuing Baby from Murderer | SRS #016

hey everybody it's the night before  i release episode 016 i'm just down. here just started raining and uh thinking  about everything that guy's been through and. um on the last episode i asked you guys to please  like comment and subscribe to the channel turn the. notification bell to all because i was having  a problem reaching my audience and you did that.

and it worked and i just want to say thank  you for doing that that means the world to me. i love you guys please do it  again all right enjoy the show. one last thing guys that's not just for my channel  like comment subscribe to every channel that you. watch helps more than you  know all right love you guys.

let's move into december 17 2018.  when he saved that little girl. tonight the baby's father is charged  with domestic assault police say they. didn't know about the child until the father  walked in saying he drowned as six-month-old. i want you to be very descriptive i want you  to talk about every little detail that you saw.

that you felt what you were feeling what  your mindset was all that kind of stuff. it looked like the soul was gone there was no  soul behind his eyes and that's exactly how he. looked when i ran past him going down the hall to  go to that call it's just different kind of evil. the child's father jonathan zicarelli said  he planned to kill his daughter for over 24.

hours he said he came down here to this  pond got out of his car walked down here. at least three different times trying  to determine if he could kill his child. right before he put her in  the water and watched her sing. so you get out of the car you're running  down to the pond and the first thing you. see is a six-month-old baby girl face down  in a pond who was murdered by her father.

you see the back of her head that's an image  that's still there little curls on her hair. police say it took them around five to six minutes  from the time the father confessed to when they. pulled the six-month-old out of the pond here off  doc henry just south of cherokee chief helgenson. said she wasn't moving that she looked like a  little porcelain doll just floating on the surface. the next memory that i've got is is  me being basically a punched kicked.

choked yelled out screamed at by my lieutenant  and other officers trying to get me off the guy. i hope at some point um you know eight or  nine years down the road i'll get to meet her. i would love that i hope you get to meet her too.

welcome back to the sean ryan show this  episode 016 is exactly why i do what i do. here at vigilance elite he's a local hero and  he's in desperate need of all of our support. i want to start off as always by saying thank you  to patreon and all the patrons for the support. that you've given me in vigilance elite to produce  these shows these stories would never be heard.

if it wasn't for you guys if you haven't left us a  review on itunes please go down to the description. hit the link and leave us a review on itunes  leave us one word that's all we need we really. appreciate it thank you the gentleman who's  our next guest found us from a social anxiety. video i posted several years ago you can read  that email it's attached along with all of his. awards that he's received throughout his career  and his support page and his email address he's.

a local hero who saved a six-month-old baby from  being murdered by her father ladies and gentlemen. without further ado please welcome chief  greg hal grimsome to the sean ryan show.

chief hal grimson welcome to the show man thank  you i've been trying to get you out here forever. but uh we had some court stuff we had to wait  to settle down for to get you out here to get. your story in and uh just so just to kick it off  i want to start it um by telling the audience a. little bit about you so basically you saved a  six-month-old baby girl from being drowned by. her father in a pond and then got a little rough  with her father who tried to kill his daughter.

and you're stripped your badge your gun your  chief of police at the time basically i don't. know if it's the city the county or the department  basically tossed you out on your ass with with. no support and and that's the end of your law  enforcement career long law enforcement career. so me and you've talked a couple times and i tried  to get you on the show finally i've got you here.

the last conversation we had the  last text conversation we had was. you were saying i just want to be a protector  i've always been this that's all i want to do. that's what i'm good at now you're selling  no you're not selling you're working in the. service department at a car dealership in oklahoma  right so i said why don't you come on the show i.

don't know how many people are gonna watch it  i can never you know i can't control that uh. usually we have a really good viewership  so if anybody watching is looking to hire. a former police chief hero somebody like yourself  your email address greg's email address is in the. description and you can reach out to them there  or if you just want to support so moving on before. that day um everybody that comes on the show gets  a little a little something most people anyways.

most but uh there you go a little keepsake for  you do i open this yeah go ahead open it up. oh look at that. so my wife my wife doesn't know um. about the vigilance elite gummy bears yeah  uh but she uh no doubt is probably gonna.

fight me to the death for for these um that's  awesome wow i'll give you a couple extras. that's awesome yeah yeah absolutely well thank you  very much john i appreciate it thanks for coming. out oh i'm glad to be here it's it's been a long  time coming and i'm i'm really uh humbled to be.

here for sure well i'm ready to dive in man are  you nervous i am yeah i sure am well if it helps. you at all everybody that's been on this show says  the exact same thing how nervous they are and and. to be honest with you i get just as nervous  you know i don't like being in the limelight. you always get a little anxious and then once  it goes on once the show kind of rolls on you'll.

get more comfortable be fine and uh and you look  kind of nervous in that restaurant last night too. yeah yeah well yeah absolutely yeah this is uh i  mean this has been going on since um what i think. the first time i had contact with you was in early  2019 january february march something like that um. so it's it's been uh building for a  couple of years now and to have it. finally come around and happen it's a really big  thing for me so i'm really i'm very happy to be.

here but yeah nervous as hell yeah well don't  be too nervous you know how many people sat in. that chair that have saved a six-month-old  girl from being murdered by their father. no probably none of them so yeah so you know  there's that yeah there is yeah well yeah yeah. it's uh it's difficult to be in limelight  it's this that's a tough thing yeah i know. but uh all right moving on so we we met initially  from an email and i actually read that email.

before you got here so the audience can hear it  and uh you talked about some of the struggles you. were overcoming and you were even humble in that  email you were saying that you didn't even tell me. what you did i had to google it you  dropped that little if you want to. know more you can google my name so sure [  __ ] i google your name and i was like oh man.

and uh so we kind of connected and uh been going  back and forth over the past what two years. yeah i think maybe a little bit longer and  uh and uh and now here we are today but. he brought up a couple of different  incidents um that you've dealt with being a. law enforcement officer and i wanted  to kind of bring that up because. when we get into you know what happened on that  day back in december of 18 yeah december 17th of.

2018. december 7th december 18th 17th 17th of 2018  10 to 8 in the morning too i'm just gonna quit. but um but i kind of want to paint a picture  that's not i don't think that's a rare. occurrence no you know for somebody like you  and how long have you been in law enforcement.

um you know i started i actually started my  career in 99 um had a super bad experience. with the agency i was with and got out  of it then got back in it in late 2003. uh so i was entered from 2003 to you know uh just  before 2019 started so the better part of 20 years. and um and uh and that's i mean would you say  things like that or a daily occurrence um in in. in my career what i saw every day um all up  through the ranks and as a chief even i wasn't.

it wasn't necessarily a daily occurrence but it  was most definitely something uh that could occur. any day every single day yeah you'd brought up in  your email fighting for your life in the middle of. the highway yeah that uh that happened more than  um more than i ever wanted to that's for certain. um and i had that actually i've forgotten you  know like i said i couldn't find that email so. i kind of forgot about some of this a little bit  but uh yeah there was a few occurrences like that.

that happened to me when i was uh when i was with  my first agency and um you know i wasn't the only. officer that ever had to deal with that and i'm  sure you know there's been you know thousands. of officers since that have but uh you know all  through the academy uh you know i went to the law. enforcement training center in kansas and uh for  the academy and they taught you through there they. kept talking about uh the warrior mindset um you  know your adrenaline you know the dump everything.

and and until a person experiences it you just  don't none of that clicks because it's just words. on paper until it happens to you and uh you know  when you've got a guy a lot bigger than than you. are and i was a decent-sized guy um but when  you've got somebody that's bigger than you and. you're just you're not only having to fight that  person but you have to fight that person to stay. away from the weapons that you possess  so that they can't use those against you. there's a lot that goes into that and it's  it's definitely uh i i would compare it with uh.

sliding in the mud toward toward a 100-foot  drop and just trying to grab anything you can. to keep it from happening that'd probably  be a really good comparison yeah well. real quick um so i have a thing called patreon  which is basically a subscription account. and uh basically what we do there is we have  a bunch of behind the scenes type footage. uh we do video teleconferencing uh with  our subscribers and and basically what our.

subscribers on patreon do is they they are the  ones that support this show they're the reason. that it happens and that that we're able to  put all this together all the equipment the the. salaries everything and so one thing i promise  them is i give them a heads up on who's coming. on the show before a couple days before they get  here and i pick a question or two that they have.

for the guest so this question is from nate hills  and he just says in your opinion do you think. police officers get sufficient training to  do the job these days no not a not even close. no most academies are usually about three and a  half months long um and when you take into into. when you throw into the mix that you've got one  individual that you expect to go out and do all.

these things and it's not going to matter if it's  an officer working for a rural city you know of. 1800 people or a metropolitan city you know  with several hundred thousand um the training. is just not there in the academies at  all and and having having been through. two different states um and seeing the the  different training in the two different states. some states definitely need it way more than  others and there should really be some kind.

of a nationally mandated training that they  have to go through whether it's developed by. you know an allegiance of chiefs of  police or sheriffs or whatever it is. the training has to be upped and it has to be up  to a lot right on i've heard that from several. different police officers a bit and uh yeah sounds  like they need to up the funding and not decrease.

the funding which is well and i was i was  fortunate enough when i was a chief that the. city that i was a chief for most of the most of  the government for that city and and the citizens. for that city were very pro police and i was able  to take my officers out and just do extensive. training almost every single week and you know  i never really got backed at by except maybe. a couple of board members you know they couldn't  understand why we were spending the money we were.

to train officers i'm confident i don't know who  those two guys voted for yeah do you think it's. tough question do you think there are a handful  of officers out there that do let the authority. go to their head and they take advantage of it  absolutely i would i would go so far as to say.

at some point especially in a young career  that's that's going to happen to probably. 40 or greater that many i believe so yeah  simply based on based on my experiences with. the officers that i i was privileged enough  to work with over the years and seeing things. yeah and you know i'm not 100 sure you know what  you mean by taking advantage of but in my mind.

i call it badge happy where they they pin  that badge on and then they feel like they're. they're the [ __ ] and uh they they don't take  no for an answer and they're delegating law and. in their own mind they're they're they've kind of  got a little bit of a god complex you know you're. gonna do this because i said so you know that's  that type of thing and um that that puts law. enforcement in a bad light and that's that's  another place where uh where training would. would be a big plus really yeah oh i think  so yeah what kind of training do you think.

well you know nowhere in the academy training that  i received or the continuing education hours that. i went through and there there was a lot at least  700 continuing education hours that i went through. nowhere in any of that did i ever hear the  word humble um you know i think being humble. is something that has to go with that badge it  has to it it it gives it value yeah interesting. would you say you said younger in the career  or early on in a young officer's career.

do most people grow out of that oh i think so  yeah i mean there's i think there's going to be. a few that probably never will and it's  just not the right place for them and i. i believe they'll be weeded out one thing i've  definitely learned about law enforcement is. when somebody gets in that doesn't belong they're  they're weeded out they whether it's by their.

fellow officers um or administration you know or  or citizens uh they they end up getting weeded. out eventually but yeah it's uh it's the the  people in the first couple years of their career. they don't have the experience yet to learn you  know what the compassion part is all about okay. right on well let's take just a real quick  break and uh when we come back i want to go into. some of the worst things that you've seen. as a police officer to kind of paint a picture  of what you guys are dealing with every day sure.

what's going on patreon. join me on vigilance elite patreon for our live  video teleconference all right we're back from our. 30-second break there but um what what are  some of the worst things that you've seen.

what are the some of the worst scenes that you've  rolled up on as a law enforcement officer well. i mean obviously not not counting  you know the child in the pond um. as a as a sergeant um i would show up on a scene  uh and the one in my mind right now is just is a.

fatality accident pretty much any officer has to  has to work a fatality accident at some point or. another or at least at least be a part of one a  part of an investigation on one and i worked a. fatality action i was the first one on the scene  it was right at the edge of my my city limits. when i was a sergeant i was actually eating dinner  at the time when the call came out and i heard. where the restaurant was located compared to  where the the crash occurred i heard the crunch.

from the crash so i was already up and leaving the  table when when i got the call i was first on the. scene on the scene for about 16 minutes by myself  waiting on other officers to get their deputies. things like that and it ended up being a three-car  accident and what had happened was uh one vehicle. and a toyota 4runner ran a stop sign out  into a 65 mile an hour four-lane intersection.

hit one vehicle knocked it into another  one and uh when i got on scene there was a. young hispanic male walking around and seemed fine  i thought he was a witness and so i i grabbed him. and stood him to the side told him don't leave  you know i wanted to get a statement from him. at some point when i was done dealing with  the people i went and uh and dealt with uh. the first vehicle it was a 16 year old that was  that had passed away already um he ended up being.

somebody that was good friends with my kids so  man uh kind of familiar with her and then uh. the other vehicle was a family um mom and dad were  both injured dad was unconscious but anyways i. i assessed everything got back  on with dispatch eventually. um got coverings put over the the 16 year  old public doesn't need to see that and then.

went over to the hispanic male once ems  you know emergency medical services showed. up i went back over the hispanic mail started  talking to him turned out he was the operator. of the toyota forerunner that had caused the  accident that actually blew the stop sign and. hit these vehicles and so immediately uh  there was a deputy that showed up on scene. uh he was very adamant that this was in his  jurisdiction not mine i said okay here he is i've. smelled alcohol on him this is the driver and the  cause of this accident he's in your custody now.

there was no fuel sobriety testing done by that  deputy or anything else and long story short that. individual ended up with a 75 dollar fine for  running a stop sign that was it you got to be. [ __ ] me no no so that was a bad one um but  that's infuriating oh yeah yeah i i agree um.

one of my officers uh when i was a sergeant  damn good officer a really good man. he he had a child pass away while he was giving  him cpr if i remember it was an eight-year-old boy. having a asthma attack and the the inhaler was  with the parents couldn't be found they weren't on. scene they were they were elsewhere i'll just i'll  leave it at that but what were they doing partying.

partying yeah but uh you know that officer  ended up getting sued by the parents. for wrongful death so i mean it's the  world that law enforcement has to deal. with is uh is pretty incredible when you  dig in deep and there's a huge amount of. of officers out there that just you know and  i know anybody in a profession like this um.

fire department hell even social  working like we spoke about. knows how to compartmentalize they've learned it  somehow and they just do it and so you just go. through your career and try your best not to open  those boxes yeah i can definitely relate to that. and you get real good at it oh  yeah until it catches up with you. exactly but um you know i guess kind of what i'm  what i'm kind of trying to bring out here here is.

law enforcement you guys deal with the  worst of people the worst of people and. you deal with the worst people on their  worst days yes and uh and that i'm assuming. is damn near a daily occurrence sometimes  probably three four maybe five six times a day. yeah well i know in my career um i was never  just randomly invited to a birthday party.

so i mean it's uh no i said milo when i  was a chief my lieutenant fordham he uh. a wonderful man really good guy he used to say we  have a front seat to the greatest show on earth. um and that's obviously just a way to look  at it to make it seem much smaller than it is. you know and change it into something  that's acceptable um you know it's uh i.

there there's there's a lot of good days but  the even the good days are going to involve. you know a domestic violence situation  or um a fatality accident or you know. a two-year-old getting mauled by a pit bull i mean  that's you know you're gonna have good days in law. enforcement don't get me wrong it's a wonderful  career and i i wish to god i was still in it but. every good day is a bad day too yeah let's move  into december 17 2018 when you save that little.

girl yeah so i want you to be very descriptive  i want you to talk about every little detail. that you saw that you felt what you were feeling  what your mindset was all that kind of stuff so. let's just start at the very beginning what were  you doing what was the call all right um yeah on.

december 17th at 2018 i was uh i was sitting in  my office doing payroll for my officers and uh. i heard my i heard my corporal down the hall  my corporal my lieutenant another officer wall. uh in my lieutenant's office i believe  i heard my corporal scream for me. and i tell by the tone of his voice  it was something really serious. so i i got up and ran out the hall and and  as soon as i entered into the hallway um.

he said something to the effect of there's  a baby drowning in a pond on doc henry road. we ran out as i was running down the hall to the  right was my lieutenant's office the doorway and. the door was open from the hallway into his office  and i saw a man sitting in a chair unrestrained. and he just had that million miles there  and i my brain associated hey this is. a suspect in this somehow.

somehow when we got in the parking lot  we're getting into our cruisers to go. i believe my lieutenant had told me or my  corporal told me that's that's the father. uh he drowned his baby and so we knew exactly  where the pond was um you know i got to tell. you in my in my career i've never experienced  running hot to a call where you didn't have to. hit the brakes i mean hitting the brakes swerving  getting out of traffic getting into other traffic. wrong way you know whatever you got to do to  get to a call um didn't experience any of that.

on this it was like the the streets just  parted the cars were out of the way before. we ever had to get to them uh we got to that  call faster than i've ever gotten to a call. as soon as i arrived i bailed out of my car  ran down the bank into the water my corporal. was right there with me he ended up in the  water he ended up having the baby in his hands. and he couldn't get anything to  happen um and he turned the baby to me.

we dug all kinds of mud and dirt and stuff out of  her throat out of her eyes cleared her eyes up uh. millie turned her over started again um you know  just uh doing compressions on her from the back. um this was in kansas city missouri yeah  greenwood just yeah just in jackson county. same county as kansas city missouri suburb  kansas city yeah in the middle of december.

right right december 17th so what was the  temperature uh that day i believe it was in. the low 20s there was ice that we had to break  to get in the pond right there by the bank um. i had to break ice to get to yeah we broke yeah  we broke through ice as we entered the pond yeah. so was she under she was she was face down  floating um and she wasn't under the ice there. was an ice as far out as she was it was just  around the bank around the edges um of course.

the water was pretty cold but uh so you get out  of the car you're running down to the pond yeah. and the first thing you see is a six-month-old  baby girl face down in a pond who was murdered. by her father yeah exactly um i could see uh i  can see the back of her head uh that's an image. that's still there uh little curls on her hair and  uh i'm i'm not sure you know i never my corporal.

and i never really had a chance to talk about it  afterward to this day him and i really haven't. sat down and had any kind of discussion about  it but i'll get to that part later but we uh. i i believed at that point before we ever  touched the baby i believed that this was a hoax. because of the color of the baby it was  just pure white it was like a porcelain doll.

i really felt like it was uh it was just some guy  that uh had a real bad mental illness problem and. believed that he threw a baby in the pond and he  didn't but um it turned out to be a real baby uh. as soon as uh since we put  hands on it we knew that. it was it was really frantic my corporal at that  time had two little children a little girl and. i believe a little boy and you know so he was  still a pretty new father my kids were you know.

grown gone you know that sort of thing but um i  know it had a lot of effect on him at that point. i could i could definitely see that um but when  uh when we're up on the bank with the baby and uh. my corporal held the baby out uh and we're  yelling at each other and i can't hear him. and i would imagine he probably couldn't hear me  it's just nothing soaked in we're just going off.

of just just pure actions more as parents  than than anything else at that point but. i reached down that baby's throat and dug out  an enormous amount of mud and dirt and grass. and we turned her over and i had her long long  ways on my forearm and started compressions again. and uh at some point you know she just uh she let  out a whimper and she was she was coming too and.

as we turned to run back up the bank with her to. my corporal's vehicle because  he left his vehicle running. and i wanted to get her in the heat as quick as  possible as we turned to run back to that vehicle. sorry i. when i turned i saw uh the look  on his face um and uh i know.

that uh he he just he was ready to  fall apart just like i was but uh. we uh we got got up to the car got the  baby in uh in the passenger front seat um. got the heat blowing on her as hard as we could. i stripped down out of the rest of my uniform  on the side of the road and wrapped her in it.

trying to get her warm it seemed like every  minute went by she got a little more coherent. she started moving her hands and looking around  you can see the movement in her eyes finally you. know things that we weren't seeing at first  that was really scaring us because at that. point we had no idea how long she'd been in that  pond um in in my mind i didn't even know if the. father had driven from the pond to the police  department or if he had walked i i didn't know. and so uh the more coherent she became the the  better we felt you know and then uh yeah i started.

i kept talking to her trying to get her attention  get her to look at me i wanted to i wasn't even. worried about hearing or anything like that i just  wanted her to just um just be more coherent you. know and and and come to more and and start acting  like a baby should um then i started calling her. goose and i i don't know why but started calling  her goose and and nicknamed her that but uh you. know she finally started looking at us she  was looking around the car um and then uh.

a guy pulled up that lived close by uh citizen  and uh you know i wonder if everything was okay. i asked him if he had any blankets anything in  the car we could use and he said nobody live. right down the street he'll go get some and so he  took off and went back to his house to get some. um which you know the the people in that area  that's that's that's the way they are but uh.

the fire department showed up with  their bus their their ambulance. when they finally came over into custody i  almost didn't want to give the baby to him. i almost felt like that she needed to stay with me. but that's not how it works but uh so they got  her on the bus uh started working with her um. five or six minutes went by i would  guess you know that she was on that bus.

and uh i couldn't even tell you what  my corporal was doing at that time he. for all i know he might have  been on the bus it just uh. you know there's a lot of a lot of things going  through your head you know at that point so you. don't uh you kind of lose touch with with what's  going on around you uh at least in my case but uh. my corporal i remember my corporal approached  me and he said she they're telling me that she's. gonna be okay she's she's gonna be stable she's  suffering from severe hypothermia and she'll be. okay something just you know clicked in my head  back to the suspect the father sitting in my.

lieutenant's office unrestrained as i ran past um  that that image went right back in my head and i. got back in my my police car and ran hot straight  back down to the police department department uh. before we go back into that yeah before we go  back into that what's this little girl's name.

i don't know i really couldn't  tell you i honestly couldn't. i don't know her name and i to be honest  with you and i know this isn't going. to sound very good at this moment um  right now i don't want to know her name. but uh uh i i hope at some point um you know eight  or nine years down the road i'll get to meet her. i would love that i hope you get to meet her too. the report says that she was underwater for an  estimated i think eight to ten minutes yeah uh.

before you guys got there right that's a long  time and it is the weather it is and underwater. you know my corporal uh he's been promoted since  then but uh my corporal um he's probably one of. the best guys i ever trained probably one  of the best guys i've ever worked with uh. and i one of the things that him and i did talk  about um when we got back to the police department.

after everything was was over with you know he uh  he said the baby's body temperature was measured. at 86.7 degrees i believe i know it was it was  either 86.7 or 87.6 either way it's extremely low. i'm not taking anything away from my corporal  or myself uh in any means but i'm telling you. if that child's body temperature wasn't what it  was we would never have been able to save her.

so we were just in after effect her her organs  slowing down the way they did because of her. body temperatures is is a big part of  what saved that child's life definitely. damn man that's some heavy [ __ ] yeah  yeah yeah but uh is there anything else. that happened on scene that you want to  talk about unseen um no you know just uh.

you know i've i've had to tell the story  a couple times but i do it from a very. far distance if that makes sense to you yeah. so the closer i get to the story the tougher  it is to tell but uh it just uh on scene. you know the the memory of the guy pulling  up and asking to help you know that's uh.

that's that's just the way those people  are around that city and uh the support. that that the citizens gave me afterwards  uh was a big reflection of that too but um. back to uh back to the story  what uh what happened was uh. when i entered into the police department parking  lot there's when you enter the building there was. an outer door that you go into and then you're  in a little foyer area you've got two different. doors you can go through there's one that goes if  you go straight through that door takes you down.

the hallway goes to our squad room evidence room  my office another office if you take an immediate. left and go through that door straight into my  lieutenant's office which is where the suspect was. so the only way to get into either one  of those doors is with a four digit code. and it's by policy those doors have to be shut  which that code's always activated no matter. what when they're shut um when i got out of my  police car ran through the parking lot i remember.

grabbing that door to the outer foyer the public  entrance i yanked it open entered that foyer. i don't remember ever putting a coat  in i don't remember opening the door. the next memory that i've got is is  me being basically punched kicked. choked yelled at screamed at by my lieutenant  and other officers trying to get me off the guy. i remember seeing the guy on the floor underneath  me and it was very easy for me to figure out what.

i did um you know that that that kind of a picture  uh you don't you don't mistake what what you just. did to somebody and i didn't i immediately called  my uh well actually my city clerk great woman she. she heard some of the ruckus from city hall  they're connected to the police department. and she came over and was screaming wanting  to know what's going on is everybody okay. and i said yeah yeah it's okay i was in a  pretty bad state at that point and i just said.

i resigned i quit um she said no no we're not  gonna let you and uh i shot myself in my office. and uh stayed in there for about 20 minutes  trying to get myself calmed down and then uh. i called my mayor uh levi weber good good man um.

i told him i was going to resign i said  i resigned i quit i resigned my post. and uh he didn't know what had happened he had  zero idea and uh he said he's a chief no never. and uh he wouldn't let me so um that's  uh that's kind of beat blubs with. so that that was big that sounds  like a hell of a hell of a team yeah.

you want to take a break yeah let's take a break. so.

all right so we're back we got a stiff drink  numb it out a little bit yeah and uh but. where we left off but basically it sounds like the  mayor the clerk it sounds like everybody kind of. had your has your back or was behind it yeah  they definitely did um in a way that i never. really saw coming my my mayor demanded um that i'd  be because by the policies that i developed myself.

um a person that was involved an officer that was  involved in a critical incident such as that one. um if there were anything that happened that would  be in question at all or up for investigation. they had to go on paid administrative  leave or unpaid administrative leave. that choice had to be made by the mayor  or the board of aldermen and the mayor but.

i was put on administrative  leave paid administrative leave. and and i can't really be accurate with how long  but i would say it was probably a good two months. maybe a little bit longer talked to my mayor  every day every single day the man called me. wanted to know you know make sure things were  good where my mind was kept talking to me about. other problems in the city you know things going  on he wanted to make sure that my guys were doing.

what i wanted them to do to keep the city running  the way i wanted it to run um i was i mean don't. i don't want to paint a picture of myself that's  not that's not accurate i i was a big fish in a. little pond is what i was and that's how i look at  that um but uh yeah they they they stood behind me. um you know and then uh you know my city clerk  my core clerk uh got the utilities lady i mean.

they were all texting me calling me uh a few times  a week checking on me seeing how things were going. one of the policies that had been put in place was. that came into effect immediately after  that happened i had written a policy with. the help of my captain hawkins which was uh he's  probably the best cop i've ever met in my life. but that policy stated if as an officer  if you're involved in a critical incident.

immediately you have to be disassociated  from that incident um from your duty uh the. counselor has to be called you have to you know  i don't remember now what i had in the policy. i think it was within eight hours you had to  be in a session with a counselor um somebody. unassociated from the department unassociated  with that event had to come in and run the show. um so obviously if it was just  an officer that was involved or.

you know corporal sergeant whatever i'd still be  running that show without any problems no hiccups. but because i was involved my captain had to  come in and run the show he was off duty that. day completely uninvolved so he came in and  ran the show ran the department my absence. he set everything up himself for us to go  see the counselor myself and the corporal in. separate sessions so by gosh ma'am that happened  the guy walked in the police department the father.

walked in the pd 10 08 in the morning somewhere  around one o'clock in the afternoon we already had. our appointment set for like 5 and 5 30 that  evening with the counselor and so we we did. that did our counseling sessions i ended up  continuing going back to that counselor because. he was actually an ex police officer himself so  it was kind of easy to talk to the guy but uh. you know it uh it's just kind of a side note  and i i getting away from the story just for a.

second but uh man if there's police departments  out there especially rural ones that don't have. a policy like that in effect my guy get it  on the books that was that was detrimental. especially for myself and my corporal but it was  detrimental for my department and the liability. on my department for us to be taken out of  that picture completely that uh that helped. everybody go on with their business and and keep  being cops um for the rest of that day and and.

uh it got us some some immediate attention  to the trauma that we just experienced. that's that's good yeah yeah it was it was a  good thing uh and you know my captain and i. spent a lot of time and i know god i know looking  back my officers probably thought you know. chief and captain they probably go out and drink  after work they probably hang out all the time.

to this day i've never been to his house ever  i've known the man uh god since well in law. enforcement i've known since 2004 uh he started  working for me in what i think 2016. um but i've. said i've never been to his house he's never been  to mine other than to come and pick up my cruiser. but you know him and i was sitting just hash  things out what if what if what if you know um. and uh that that helped develop a lot of uh a  lot of good training and a lot of good policies.

so you don't remember exactly you don't remember  exactly what happened when you tuned the father up. who tried to drown or who did drown his daughter  but when did you sounds like you completely shut. that out in memory yeah um so what did you see how  how bad was it when you came to uh it was the the.

the dump that i was having the adrenaline  dump that i was having when i came to you i i. i had people there to hold me up. and if i didn't i'd been on the ground  it was it was uh it was very sudden um. and uh i still had uh just this uh this  is this this uh this rage um you know i.

i know looking back and and having seen the  the body camera footage i know personally. um what would have happened if if those  officers weren't there to get me off yeah but uh. my mindset when when my my  conscience came back to me. immediately wasn't wasn't really on the father  um you know he was of course he's he's injured.

you know he's he's got some blood on his face and  stuff and the million mile stair never went away. i mean it never left that man he it looked like  the soul was gone there was no soul behind his. eyes and that's exactly how he looked when i ran  past him going down the hall to go to that call. it's just different kind of evil it is the best  way for me to put it and i recognize that when i. when i when my memory came back to me that's  that's one of the first things i remember was was. in my head just just thinking man that's that's a  brand new kind of evil i haven't seen that and uh.

you know it uh. and then everything just just came to mind  the realization of what i just done to my. career what i just did to myself what i did  in my department so what um but he wasn't. he wasn't seriously injured or anything no as  far as i know no broken bones um you know he. some some lacerations and things to his face and  maybe some bruised ribs and things like that but.

nothing nothing permanent no dismemberment  or anything all right so i mean. you just i assaulted the men yeah i mean you saw  well i mean your emotions i mean that's a lot. to take in and then to see the man that did it  right after you save this girl you know i mean. i don't think there's a whole lot of people  out there that could have held that together.

to begin with but um so you're on two months leave. when then what happened um i was on leave for a  couple months and then uh i had an fop attorney um. and they they need to work on their game but  uh um what's an fop attorney a federal order. police fraternal order please uh like a union  attorney okay um provided to me by the fop and uh.

you know i was told he was a very good attorney  and and and i won't mention his name or anything. like that i'll just say that i it didn't work  out for me but as soon as we learned that it. was going federal which was right about the  end of that two months of my paid leave i. had fbi agents show up at my door at my home  and i to backtrack a little so that happened. on december 17th of 2018 on december 23rd which  was the friday after that that happened on tuesday.

on that friday i had surgery on my right shoulder  from lifting weights i uh i ended up tearing up my. my shoulder pretty bad and had to have a couple  surgeries on it so i was down with that also. and so anyways go forward a couple months i'm  still an embrace of stuff on my shoulder and fbi. shows up my door and serves me with an indictment  for a civil right violation against the father. the two fbi agents that came to my door were  extremely professional uh good good people i.

would say um uh they they were compassionate  and and um you know i appreciate them for the. for the job they did um and i know that's  that's what they were doing was their job. but getting a federal indictment. opened my eyes up to the fact that uh man you  know what's what's the smallest thing you can do.

in law enforcement um as an officer or as a rank  or as a chief even um and and not be put under a. federal endeavor you know um because to me the  the the punishment outweighed the act a lot. uh and and it i know things don't have to be fair  and and you know i violated my oath that i took i. understand that i understood that from the moment  that i that i came to um and i have to live with.

that for the rest of my life because i was and  still am extremely serious about that oath but. you know the first thing i did uh when i got  that indictment uh i was trying to figure out. what to do i first person i spoke with was  my mayor and uh i ended up talking to um. the actual union rep from the county and ended  up getting the name of an attorney a federal.

attorney i got in touch with him he was actually a  prosecutor for the justice department at one time. got in touch with him and retained him  went in talked to him told him my story. and he was uh he was the right choice for  sure damn good man glad i've got him but. it's looking back on this entire thing  and thinking about the you know the the. was it two and a half years you know since it  happened um you know i'm a farms instructor uh you.

know i taught pistol combat tactics rifle combat  tactics a patrol rifle instructor uh instructor. for uh active shooter response to active shooter  um you know and a few other things and it's uh. you know as always in the back of my  mind my retirement gig was going to be. to to go around and train law enforcement  and you know a federal indictment you you.

can't be in possession of firearms you  can't even uh can't even own them so. the day after i got that indictment what i ended  up doing was going to the local gun store and sold. sold both my daniel defense rifles my mark 18  well you have my mark 18 and my ddmr7 or 7r. and then uh my sig 320 365 a couple of 1911  springfields i had sold sold everything sold.

all of them sold it all got a receipt so  i'd have something to turn in this proof um. i'm not i'm not saying i'm the best rule follower  that there is but you know in the in that case at. that time i felt like following the  rules is exactly what i needed to do. and i know i had the option to you know sell them  to friends or have somebody do safe keeping for me. but at that point i felt like the  best thing to do was to do something.

that was on paper that i had a receipt for have  paperwork for and and they could be checked into. real easy for them for the for the u.s justice  department and so that's how i did that but. you know it's almost like and and god i'm gonna  kiss some slack from my kids for saying this but. it was almost like uh i went back home after  after selling the guns and it was like all. my kids had just left home for the first time it  just it was rough yeah because you know guns are.

pretty things yeah but uh yeah so it's there  are some life changes that that take a lot of. getting used to and i'm not used to him at all yet  you know who who's the one that decided that uh. who who's behind all this this big push to  indict you and uh the the federal prosecutor. and to be honest with you sean i'd have to look  at the paper to tell you what his name is i when i. read through those i don't look at the headings i  just i just look at the content and that's it but.

um yeah the federal prosecutors for the justice  department in kansas city yeah um you know and. i'm not saying that they're bad people or  that uh that they got their head screwed. on wrong or anything like that whatsoever what  i'm saying is um man you know there's black and. white there's gray and the best officers  i've ever seen on the planet the best. law enforcement people federal down to a town of  200 people the best law enforcement i've ever seen.

know where that gray is and  know to look at that gray. to make a decision you know i don't feel like  that was done i think it sounds like you know. there's a time to give a slap on a wrist and  there's a time to throw the [ __ ] book at you. right and uh these guys threw the book at  you for saving a six month old baby yeah.

yeah are they still there or thank you they  are yeah yeah they are yeah they are um. yeah uh it was really a strange thing we went  to the to the justice department the federal. courthouse a couple of different times my attorney  and i for a couple of meetings that we had to do. with them um i had to get a uh a p.o which in this  sense is a pre-trial officer but as a p.o as a pos.

i was fortunate enough that the one i got in  kansas city was was great she knew her job. very well she she told me exactly what i need  to do when i need to do it and i followed those. rules and i never had any problems at all  she came out and did her first house check. with me because under federal indictments so  they i had to check in once a week with the po. to let them know hey you know i'm still  alive still in this area i haven't left.

if i wanted to travel outside of uh i think it  was three different counties they're around me. if i wanted to travel outside of that area  i had to call and get permission to do that. you know changing jobs i had to notify them. and and those are things that uh you know. a a free person is not used to doing and that's  that just you know it sinks in when you go to. bed at night um but she she did her job well she  was she was great i have no complaints whatsoever.

about her uh she's pretty decent person when  she came out and did with the house check. mine i had a a stairwell that went down to my  basement my basement was my man cave had all my. awards and crap all my my old chief used to call  it a love me wall and so i had my love me wall. down there and you know all my junk and she uh  she spent some time looking over those things and. when she was done looking at those things  she was done with their house check and.

that was the only one that i ever had to  deal with you know while i lived in that area. later on i ended up moving and they had  to come out and do a house check but. that was in a different  residence altogether but um. you know i i i can't complain about the about  the justice department because i i realize if. if i go black and white they're doing their job  you know i mean they're to me they're they're.

they're going after something that um. that they probably shouldn't have but i but  i know in the end they're doing their job. when uh. when law enforcement started getting a really  bad light uh in in and i mean by bad light. good shootings um good arrests were being made but  being seen as bad yeah and publicized through the.

media um i got scared and my attorney got scared  i made i i initiated a phone call with my attorney. and i said look i i'm not sure about this you  know uh doing a jury trial on this is scary at. this moment because of the way law enforcement  is being looked at um yeah he agreed and. uh so we approached the justice department  with a plea and the plea basically was um.

you know plead guilty to this in exchange  for uh so much time and probation um. it would be something that my life wouldn't  be altered too much from its current state. um however uh you know there's there's nothing  set in stone on that the the justice department. agreed to it as you saw but the judge  does has it has he has the option to uh.

to throw out my plea um and take it to  trial uh or to instill a harsher punishment. you know and out of everything that i've heard  about it so far and and you got to understand by. this time um and i'm sure i'm not the only  person that's experienced something like. this but by this time anytime that uh the new  information comes forward to me about my case. um on the federal level it just it's like  throwing clothes in the washing machine. it just gets mixed together and you know it's just  uh it's just more [ __ ] thrown into the mix and.

the last thing uh during the plea hearing after it  the last thing i knew of and i and i think you saw. it in the paperwork that i gave you they're also  calling for restitution for the father now for me. to pay restitution to that man out of my pocket uh  that's tough to swallow that's rough that one i'm.

not really sure if my brain's ever going to get  wrapped around that that's that's just me it's uh. man you know that's like uh you know that's like  giving a bully a gold star for a day you know. it doesn't make sense to me i  don't think it makes sense to. anybody but probably those prosecutors right  yeah they appreciate yeah yeah you know yeah. i don't think there's anybody that's gonna see  this that's gonna understand why they would uh.

why that would well that would  even be a thing but um you know. wow. so where does it stand where  is everything right now. so right now uh in the first week of december  um i've got a uh sentencing hearing that i have. to appear for i don't know i don't know the time  off top of my head right now but anyways i have.

a sensing hearing that i have to appear for and  that's where i'm going to find out the end result. of what's actually going to happen what's going to  be set in stone um i'm really nervous about that. because. i just uh with some of the things i've seen so far  nothing has gone anywhere near the way i thought. it would and i always try and look at things that  as how i would do it how i would handle it or.

or what decision i would make in it  and it just doesn't apply to this. uh because there's already decisions  made that i never would have made. um it's just you know there's there's some  comfort to to things in my mind about it um. but uh i don't know i don't even know what the  best case scenario is now to be honest with you. um if if it gets thrown out if the judge  decides to throw it out throw out my plea.

then we withdraw my plea and we  go to trial if we go to trial. i mean helen took the justice department two  and a half years to get here yeah you know um. how long will it be until the trial you know  and will i still be on this this pre-trial. thing you know uh or pre-sentence thing  with a pre-sentencing officer you know i. there i still have questions about it and i  still don't know what the outcomes are and. um until december happens i i just won't know  if it goes to trial my personal feeling is.

they can't find 12 people to put on a jury  they're going to agree that i'm guilty. i just don't see where that would happen to  me out of 12 there's going to be a parent. there's there's going to be somebody that has a  brother or sister as a law enforcement officer. and they're going to look at this and go you  know what yeah you know you you see a baby. come back to life that was drowned by his  own father and all you do is assault a man.

who did it yeah yeah it's it's it's so i  i just don't uh i don't i don't know where. it's gonna go but that's that's definitely a  worry of mine you know i'm trying to build a. trying to get my future going um trying to make  things work out for me and and my new wife and uh. you know this is just a cloud you  know just hangs right over the top. where is the father now so about a month about a  month ago i saw that he was sentenced to 15 years.

but it's to my understanding that he is  currently in a mental health institution. which the hitting that i saw the head the it  said that uh he was sentenced to 15 years in i. want to say jackson county jail but sorry let me  interrupt if i remember right last night you said.

you were possibly on the hook for 20 years and  this guy got 15 years 12. yeah me on 12 yeah. yeah possibly 12 for me uh yeah he gets so he  got 15 years um so if you punch somebody who. drowned their six month old baby you're gonna get  12 years but if you decide you want to drown your. six-month-old baby all you have to do is add  another three years yeah that's that's the math.

um but i you know i got to add to that to  be fair to my to myself um you know but. i acted under the color of law and and i didn't  going into this i i had no experience with the. federal side as far as sentencing and and things  like that and they have guidelines that they. follow and basically if you do this it's this many  points and this this many points and then if you. if you confess or you plead guilty then it's this  many points taken away well they go through this.

point system and that's how they figure out what  kind of time that you're going to do it uh it's. pretty interesting and scary as hell because it  makes zero sense to me um and i'm not an idiot but. man that made zero sense to me uh but uh i mean it  there is still there's a good possibility that uh. you know the judge could say you know what you  two years can find me to do you some good let's. put you there you know or he could he could put  me in a in a mental health institution you know.

do you have a gauge on that judge i don't no no  i don't he's been practicing for a long long time. and he seems like he's he's a very sharp man um  and but my plea hearing is the only experience. that i have with him so i just don't have  any kind of a gauge on them yet all right. well i don't want to go into i mean we spoke  last night about how much this has damaged your.

your life afterwards and and and with previous  relationships and family and i don't want to. i don't want to make you go back into that  and uh i think we have exactly what we need. for the audience but you know i said at the  beginning you know what you were here for. i want you to say you know  why why you came here and what.

do you want to get out of this interview  to the people that are watching. um okay uh there's there's two things that i that  i hope this accomplishes um well three i mean i. got to meet you so that's one you know you're  you're a star so um but uh the two things are uh. you know first and foremost there's there's  a woman on on facebook that reached out to me. uh from ohio her name is uh charlene and uh she  started this support group on facebook just she.

she reached out to me one day and just said hey do  you mind if i do this i said no knock your socks. off you know have at it and uh i know there's like  uh like almost a thousand people on that support. page now and then recently she started a petition  this is all out of the goodness of her heart. it was it's an amazing thing but there's close  to 400 people in that petition now i think.

i don't know that the support page or the petition  would would do any good on the federal side. they might look at something like that and just  kind of giggle to themselves i i don't know but. those things are out there you know and i'd  love to see i'd love to see both grow um. we'll link that below in the description  and then uh you know the other thing is um. obviously i've still got a lot of a lot of  friends in law enforcement and there's a lot.

of people that have made contact with me that  just started their careers um i couldn't i i. could show you after this the messages but i've  had people contact me from south africa from. australia from all over the world um languages i  don't understand and one of my really i'd like to. show you just so you can tell me maybe you know  what language it is but it kind of almost looks. russian but i'm not sure but anyways i've had  people contact me from all over the world um. giving me support in messages and and  us as so humbling it's unreal uh then uh.

they uh it's it's it's good to know that  there's that many people on the planet you know. that have good hearts because uh when you watch  the news or something now it's just scary as. hell it just gets worse every day um but what  i'd like to accomplish the second thing is uh. law enforcement that's on duty now  needs to understand the administration.

and their bosses the the the board members um  uh you know the commissioners they they all have. got to understand that mental health is not only  something law enforcement has to deal with on duty. they have to deal with it themselves in  their own body at home with their families. and that's not being recognized and it needs to be  it really does i've got my battles i know plenty.

of other officers that have their own battles  that are that are as bad or worse than mine. and they unless they do the seven free business  they get through their job with a council that's. never ever been in law enforcement and  most likely never held a gun in their life. uh you know what are they gonna get out of  it you know they're not gonna get anything. and that that needs to change that really  does um so i'm hoping somewhere somehow. somebody somebody pays attention to that and  at least does something for their own guys.

well i'll bring up the fourth thing then the  fourth thing is you want you're looking for. employment to be a protector and so if  somebody out there knows of a position. that would be perfect for you your email is in  the description do you want to say your email. uh it's very simple but i mean they're not going  to be able to spell it unless they look at it in. the description yeah that last name was was  it pissed me off pretty bad in kindergarten.

it was rough right and then one last  question do you know where this girl is now. um the last i heard she went through a  foster program uh and and one thing i. didn't talk about uh when i told the story  immediately after uh after that incident at. the police department what the father happened  um after i got pulled off of them and everything. uh one of the very first things that  happened was we sent officers over to.

the local grade school to take the other two  children from that family into protective custody. so there were three kids all together the other  two were older obviously they were in grade school. took them into protective custody to my knowledge  they all entered the foster program um and then. they all ended up with a distant aunt that from  what i understood is taking very good care of them. and the parents don't have uh i don't believe  they have visitation as far as i know i'm very.

i'm confident the father doesn't at least um  uh and uh i didn't talk about the mother um. i'll probably keep it that way that's  that's probably best all right yeah well. i think um your hero and everybody's eyes other  than these two federal prosecutors in kansas city.

and uh and i hope when we release that that that  that you feel that way and and that uh and that. something good comes with us and and uh man i  really hope that i know you're gonna cross paths. with that little girl at some point in time again  and uh that'll be that'll be cool to hear about. but yeah i just want to tell you chief it was  a real honor to have you here sitting in that. chair and and to get your interview like i said  it was like i've been trying to get you on here.

for a long time now and uh we finally got you  here and i'm really glad that you were able to. tell your your piece so thank you for coming  oh i appreciate the opportunity absolutely i. i've looked forward to this for a long long time  and hoped it would happen and uh you know i'm. really i'm really pleased with uh with the way  things went this is a far better experience even.

than i'd hoped for so i appreciate it very much  good that's a lot brother thank you i'm cheers.