Captain Brad Geary - Gen Z Navy SEALs, Military Revolution and Prayers to God | SRS #177

[Music]. [Music]. Captain Brad giri welcome back thanks. Sean again appreciate you having us. again yeah my pleasure my pleasure it's. good to see you and Jason nice to see. you again good to see you again so just. a little recap you guys were on about. what 6 8 months ago I think we.

and um so in a nutshell just real quick. snapshot basically big debacle at at. buds Kyle mullen's uh buds candidate. died in training died. of what we believ to be. performance-enhancing drugs lot of. evidence and basically the the the US. Navy kept reinvestigating this until the. performance-enhancing drugs disappeared. and and then they basically pinned on.

you the commanding officer of of Naval. special Warfare Training Center whatever. they're calling it today yeah yeah me. and Eric Ramy that's right that's right. and and so I wanted to bring you back on. uh we got a lot of exposure you came on. um Jason you came on and and your other. attorney yep Davis Al from the stand. warri Foundation yep yep we still with. him as well yeah got a lot of exposure I. know my personal friend in attorney Tim.

parori jumped on board we got a ton of. congressmen Senators a lot of attention. and uh and the case was ultimately. dismissed but I know they're still. coming at you for some stuff and um I. wanted I just kind of wanted to do an. update with you you interviewed with. secretary head Seth and and and director. gabard and I want to talk to you about. what that is and if you do have a place. in the new. Administration and um and so yeah it's.

it's good to have you back good to be. back thanks for having us it means a lot. to us my pleasure to start we have to do. the the disclaimer that that obviously. all uh everything I say here today is my. own opinion Brad Gary's not. representative of the Navy uh or Naval. special Warfare or the Department of. Defense in general these are all my. opinions and my understandings of the. facts as I understand them uh in our. entire case and everything that's. happened since our last show for sure. and to that point uh big win with them. dropping the case As You released on.

social media uh the signed document. dated 13 December 24 where Amy and I. basically signed it both signed it. saying Sean the lies finally crumbled. under the weight of truth thank you for. being a pivotal voice for truth blessed. are the peacemakers r and Amy Gary oh. man thank huge man your show was a pivot. point this is awesome yeah changed the. whole thing everything I love I love. this she be hanging here in the studio. along with uh yeah all the other stuff.

from gu and um this is an honor thank. you our honor too and we thank you thank. you for being a continual voice for. Truth for for me and so many others all. right so let's get into it yeah so he. came on what I guess that was about what. 6 months ago a little longer somewhere. around there yeah and uh got a lot of. attention yeah real fast what what. happened what was what happened so like. I alluded to uh what we hoped and what.

we expected um before I get into that. real quick I do want to highlight. something I think we've seen here it's. interesting because it all plays back. toward leadership which we talked a lot. about in the last episode years ago when. I first took command of STV Team 1 one. of my uh tasking at commanders sent us. an article called Power causes brain. damage the Atlantic published it uh I. want to say 2014 to 17 time frame I. think really really interesting and it's. not a new idea right I think it was Lord. Acton said uh Power corrupt s absolute.

power corrupts absolutely but now in the. modern day we've been able to study that. psychologically and actually do magnetic. brain mapping and see what happens in in. the brains of those who have Authority. for long periods of time and it turns. out it's not great um uh so this article. lays that out and it talks about how it. creates huus uh uh a bit of cognitive. dissonance and what I think a lot of uh. lower folk would look up the chain of. command and say that guy drinks his own.

Kool-Aid um and so it's very dangerous. now the hard part about this is the. study is it identified that knowing it's. a psychological problem and by the way. this isn't like unique to a few people. this is everything this is everybody. this happens to anyone who's in a. position of power for a long period of. time um even knowing that it's a problem. it's a psychological condition I think. they dubbed it the power Paradox or. someone did or or the Huber syndrome or. maybe those are two separate but similar. things but either way um even knowing. it's an issue isn't enough to counteract.

it you actually have to take deliberate. steps to counter this as a leader in. order to stay humble grounded and and. and and and kind of in sync with the. force and who you who's entrusted to. your care the organization you're. leading whatever whatever entity that is. um I bring that up because it was. important for me in my development as a. leader certainly as a commanding officer. and then getting to that second one it. buds do they talk about this in in Navy. leadership so so how did you find out.

about this so great question. uh they don't talk about it enough uh. when I went to CO's school they talk. about the Bas Sheba syndrome which is. where you study David as this king from. the Old Testament who you know the. classic story is he sees Bas Sheba uh. bathing on the neighboring roof uh takes. her impregnates her and then he has her. husband killed and so they talk about. how being in position of authority and. power for a long time the rules don't. seem to apply to people and how that can. be a dangerous slope so it's good that. they talk a little bit about it but they.

don't take it far enough um because they. don't really say other anything other. than be careful it doesn't turn into you. well okay not helpful and what this. article does is breaks it down even. further into how to stop that from. happening there's ways the point is you. have to have a mechanism in place to. stay humbled stay grounded some examples. from the article Franklin Roosevelt um. had an adviser that he made call him by. his first name all the time so he wasn't. allowed to call him Mr president or.

anything else and the reason is the. minute we establish a hierarchal order. uh you and I both know no one ever tells. the boss the truth we sugarcoat it we. write it in our sit reps and we we we. massage it so that it doesn't sound as. bad as it was you know back at the. beginning uh and so he knew that if I. have an advisor they're they're never. going to tell me the full truth whether. they mean to or not and over time that. creates a gap in my understanding of. what's actually going on with the. organization I'm leading uh and how I'm. being perceived as a leader.

so the point is we all need people in. our Lives who are willing to look us eye. to eye as an equal as a peer not in a. hierarchical status and basically call. us on our BS uh that's one example the. article gives a bunch of their ways on. how to do this how to stay grounded. another one I can't remember the name uh. but she was some big wig in some. organization and she comes home to tell. her mom she just got excited about. getting selected to this huge board and. she's all proud of herself and her mom's. like hey before you get to that go to. the grocery store and give me some milk. and so her mom did it deliberately and.

then she said something like leave that. damn Crown in the garage so when you. come home you're not a big wi anymore. you're not super important you're not. you're not puffed up on your youo you. are my daughter or my son or you are. Franklin in that case but but it's it's. very interesting and it takes a. deliberate approach we do not talk about. that in the military yeah not only do we. not talk about it this is super. interesting uh they teach these. leadership Concepts before your first. training officer tour and and prior to. that there's a lot of leadership devel. stuff here's what's super I think.

backwards is once you're done with your. commanding officer tour there's no more. real big leadership development that you. do especially prior to Major command. there's like a onewe uh course that. that's just very surfacy well ironically. from this article that is precisely when. we should be doubling down on our. leadership development and making sure. we have checks and balances as these. people are continuing in positions of. authority climbing that chain of command. so so right when we should do more.

what we know from science we're actually. doing less so we're we're mixing this up. and we're putting it backwards and I. think there's some problems I've seen. certainly with with with um with enval. special Warfare with some of my peers as. I've watched this take place in real. time well what was the what was. the I mean when you came on last time we. had talked about your interactions with. different Admirals people that that you. had considered friends that you had. considered um I mean you you had respect.

for these guys yeah you know and then. and then as the Kyle mullen's case you. know kind of unraveled longer or or it. just kept unraveling and you started. fighting back that it was like I can't. remember exactly what the term was it. like trust the process or something like. that I mean did you ever hear from any. of those Admirals again it's funny after. you came on the show oh yeah absolutely. so there were there were three. three potentially four three that were.

willing to write me letters of. recommendation for any kind of board of. inquiry that I had um which so total. change of heart well so but but a lot of. them went the other way too but here's. the funny thing Sean um even though. and so one of them two of them said this. but I'll tell you the story about one. after we won called me up old friend of. mine mentor of mine phenomenal seal. officer Brad I'm so proud of you like. you just you crushed this you did all.

the right things you handled it the. right way you didn't let it turn into an. angry bitter man I'm just so proud of. how you handled this whole thing. congratulations on the win this is. huge and then he pauses and he says but. I've got to I've got to say I've just. got to say it the process. worked you got to be [ __ ] kidding no. and and process works and I love this. dude I know I know and I love this dude. so I said hey no sir no like we won. because I subverted the process we won. because the process showed itself to be.

untrustworthy and so I raised this issue. and then finally went around and. obliterated the process and he he was. quiet for a second he goes you're right. and here's the thing that's interesting. about that to me and this is one of the. things we learned in this three-year. process is even the great Admirals out. there which there's some great ones and. the great generals out there have become. so. institutionalized that they're in many. ways incapable of even criticizing the. process when they see it acting unjustly. they just can't do these guys are.

imprisoned by their own power does that. make sense yes like they imprison them. themselves in their own power because. they're so scared of losing it nothing's. more important to them than holding. power we were talking about this at. breakfast right you know you it's we. were we were having a conversation about. gen Z just jetting out the door uh in. Special Operations it's like man you. guys you guys are going to have to make.

some changes if you want to stay on that. Soap Box great but there's not going to. be anybody to look up on that Soap Box. because they're all jetting you're going. to be a leader of nobody yeah and yeah. for sure so is is that what happens is. that what they they just they get. imprisoned by their own their own hunger. of power I think it's well I don't want. to I don't want to speak too generally. right um I think there are some absolute. altruists out there who want to keep. leading because they love the. organization they love the nation what.

I've noticed though is it's an. interesting pattern when something goes. wrong and I have a theory on it when. something goes wrong commanding officers. are are kind of hung out to dry right. well you were in command we have to have. total responsibility and accountability. so you see CO's getting fired all the. time for lack of trust and confidence. yet if you pull the thread on like root. cause analysis on a lot of these ones. what you'll find is they probably or. might be working under some other. Commodore or some other Admiral who is. somewhat of a toxic leader or not a good. leader and that trickled down to that CE.

but you never ever see or very rarely do. you see a Commodore or an Amal fired um. and I think it's because at the command. level you represent that command. everything above that you now represent. the institution and if you're going to. fire someone who represents the. institution that is a criticism against. the institution and they view that as. their chief goal preserving the. institution and I think that's where we. see gradually what happen is a bit of a.

misplacement of. loyalties um where I think that's what. we saw in our case was well the. institution decided we're going to go. with this narrative doesn't matter. whether it's true or not now we have to. defend the institution's decision and. we're going to follow this through all. the way to the end even when it made no. more rational sense even when we exposed. to quote Congress um I think it was. quote was grossly unethical practices. and I'm quoting them now it's words to. that effect and a lack of investigative.

Integrity uh uh from from a. congressional. letterhead because well we can't. criticize the institution because the. public trust. institution what I think happens. subliminally with a lot of these guys. it's not they're so power hungry it's. that um over time they're loyalty flips. and in instead of remembering that they. made an oath to the Constitution they. somehow start placing the institution. above that that shap decision making. yeah and I can be a little more specific. on that point I think your concept of. being imprisoned their own power it's.

also imprisoned by their own ego because. in the military the the the Nexus the. the origin of prosecutorial Authority is. vested in the commander right and so. when a commander decides to do something. in that realm they become incredibly. over emotional to that decision on. average I'm I'm summarizing 15 years 16. years of seeing it they become rooted in. this if you're defying the system if. you're defying my choice to prosecute. you you're defying me and they take on.

this kind of insubordinate feel and. communication pattern even with me you. know through their their agents and sjas. often they cut me off from even being. able to to go and talk to them right no. you need to handle that through my sja. right it becomes a very personal attack. to them and some cannot separate us. rebutting the facts pushing back on the. prosecution suing for innocence and not. take that as a a personal attack on.

their decision making which is an attack. on the institution which they would. defend right. yeah it's seeming more and more like. we're about to hit an inflation cycle. like we saw in the 70s President Reagan. once said that inflation is as violent. as a Mugger as frightening as an armed. robber and as deadly as a Hitman and I. couldn't agree more the price of gold. during the last inflation cycle during. the 70s was a Saving Grace for a lot of. people that were trying to protect their.

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towards being credit card debt free 866. 781. 8900 that's 866 781 8900 or. americanfinancing.net. SRS jeez so one one guy one. guy another guy letter recommendation. and said I told you three well three of. them offered did the letter but even one. of the other guys and and this is one of. the things I I don't want to get too far.

ahead we'll talk about this but this is. one of the things I I talked to. secretary Heath about uh when I. interviewed with him is uh one of the. other guys same same thing we're going. to write a letter for you you're a great. dude this is unfair this is unjust I. can't believe this we should treat our. teammates better I can't believe we've. let this happen to you pause Brad but. what you really want to do is see this. process through and go to the board of. inquiry because that's how you get. Vindicated in the end is by following. this process to which I replied sir I. appreciate the letter no no when I have.

a thousand data points showing the. process is untrustworthy the answer. isn't hoped for the best and keep. trusting it uh I believe we have back to. our oath to the Constitution United. States as officers specifically we have. a moral obligation when we see something. like this happening to stand up and say. no uh to stand up for the truth and and. confront the Injustice confront the. process or the system that is acting in. in une iCal ways and in some cases.

illegal ways and and obliterate it. expose it at all costs and that's really. what we've done here what we did with. the episode with you and I tried to do. it shy of that I wrote letters to. Admirals I wrote uh I sent evidence. directly to the CNO where we talked. about hey here's the irrefutable. evidence showing Admirals in your. command. lied violated the roow of office and. produced deliberately manipulative. investigations um calm. silent jeez that's our duty as officers.

I think mhm throw it on the table I mean. they how many times have they. reinvestigated to change everything was. it three was it three times it was more. than that at this point but but but. trust the process yeah right right right. Brad why couldn't you have just trusted. the process and gone to mass again okay. well I went to Mast uh you know a lot of. a lot of folks would say the critic the. critics out there which have heard and. have seen. uh well Brad's just been dodging.

accountability through this whole thing. right um well okay let's re let's rehash. the last six hour episode in about five. sentences no I was I was taken to njp to. Mast by ammer Howard we accepted Mast we. submitted a rebuttal to what he. understood the facts to be at which. point he dismissed Mast and wrote me a. non-punitive letter of censure case. closed I was held accountable that. should have been the end of it then the. Navy decided no we don't like that. narrative we didn't like that. investigation that said drugs were. contributing factor so that's when from.

the top the Direction came to change the. investigation then start a new. investigation based upon those changes. with a presupposition that drugs had. nothing to do with this and then the LIE. the press release and now created. through this lie an entirely new need to. hold people accountable based upon lies. so then they charge us with Mast again. with all now those lies well no and I. even accepted Mas earlier CU I still had. hope and we we've laugh about this how. naive I was and like no Jason I kept.

trying to talk him into it no trust me. like this is nsw we we won't do the. wrong thing we're going to do the right. thing here uh but over time back to. trust trusting the process trusting the. system well man I can only trust it for. so long so naively when all I see are. data points which look like a trend line. of abuse of manipulation and of lies and. so at some point in that process and we. talked about that the last episode I. won't rehash all of it but no I got to. deny Mast and in my denial of Mast we we. requested court marshall because that.

was our that was our concern was we were. seeing a manipulation of evidence at a. level that wouldn't stand in a court of. law and so we requested that um that was. denied us as. well who went the other way what do you. mean these these guys were somewhat on. your side somewhat oh the Admirals yeah. oh quite a few said they went two ways. yeah yeah yeah I mean old friends and. mentors of mine have said openly in. forms with other people yeah Brad's. dodging accountability um I don't like.

how Brad decided to go public um he. never should have gone public we talked. about that I'll bet they didn't like. that no no well even even guys that. weren't involved in this case who had. nothing to lose by me going public and. and the sad part about that for me is. like hey man I got it again I I crossed. the threshold the silent professional I. get it but when you when you look at the. Splinter in my eye by doing that by. making that deliberate Choice versus.

literally falsified testimony fabricated. documents which are illegal acts in in. some cases at best violated joint ethics. regulations in plain sight at worst you. actually broke the law a little bit here. and there um and the takeaway from all. this is I shouldn't have gone public no. no they got a plank in their eye don't. criticize my splinter yeah what was the. what was the. backlash so it got worse after our show.

uh got worse it got worse uh one of the. things we mentioned in the show was any. charge against me at the time had. nothing to do with K mullen's name and. that was very specific and deliberate. and they were doing that strategically. because when I would bring up yeah but. this is a false investigation you know. it you've told me I mean my Admiral said. to my face I know that this was a. deliberately manipulative investigation. um but what they would say is but the. charges against you aren't related to. Kyle so none of that matters it's. inadmissible in a sense I was like well.

yeah but you used that to get here so it. doesn't really work and I know that you. say that to me and and Eric Remy and. beef Drexler but in the other side of. the equation you're telling the family. that you're going to hold us accountable. so you're saying both things so one of. the things they did um after our show. right around the same time I can't. remember exactly how it's sequenced but. they actually changed the charges. against us and ramped Them Up alleged. cause of death against my leadership and.

Eric Ramy saying our failures to I don't. know oversight medical and uh conduct. safe operations were direct resulted. directly in Kyle mullen's death Eric Ry. was the doctor the doctor yes thank you. um so you actually they actually made. these sound almost like homicide charges. negligent homicide negligent homicide. charges but all administratively in what. they say is a non-punitive uh. environment and I was like well that. that stung that's stung and and what's.

interesting about that too is. technically after non-judicial. punishment doesn't happen and you. convene these administrative Board of. inquiries which are supposed to be. non-punitive they're supposed to just. cut and paste the same charges from. before and adjudicate those in an. administrative fashion very abnormal for. them to decide on their own. administrative nav purs on their own. infinite level of wisdom that's probably. not the best way to say that yeah well I. mean okay let me let me backtrack I mean. no disrespect or disdain by saying that. and we forgot my opening explain I can't.

believe we did it everything I say here. today obviously just like last time is. my own personal opinion and based upon. the facts as I perceive them and. understand them nothing I say represents. the United States Navy uh or Naval. special Warfare and um and in no way do. I mean any disrespect to any senior. officers or disdain to any public. officials in anything we say here today. um I mean I think it's important to note. that uh we don't actually know if it was. nav pers who changed the. charges because it went up to chief of.

Naval Personnel um Admiral Cheeseman he. actually was the one to convene the. board to notice the board his signature. on there just like the withdrawal letter. was he was the one to start this process. against us couple things to note there. one I talked to a ton of lawyers. including myself I've never seen the you. would you say the process against you. you're talking about up in the charges. almost chares respons official noce of a. Boi yeah with the new charges but one.

I've never seen the CNP the be the. person who convened a board like I mean. pulling it up to his level is distinct. in and of itself I had our military uh. Council that was assigned kind of reach. out and see if anybody else had seen. that no one so what's interesting is. Admiral Cheesman was on the email list. where they talked about changing the. press release and they issued the lie to. the American people so you put those two. things together he pulls it up to his. level he's got an interest in it right.

he's got an interest in seeing this uh. go you know bad for captain giri and. he's the one to to promulgate and start. this. process but the beauty was this was a. massive strategic error yeah because by. actually linking us to cause of death. findings even allegedly now it opened up. the gates for us to actually attack all. the false investigations that that had. led us to that point and so now we're. able to say hey we demand access to.

investigations that had been previously. done and changed to different um uh. pieces of evidence that had been so far. denied us we got full access to his. phone and had a digital forensic. analysis ripped that turns out there was. a lot more in there uh that that we even. knew from the beginning uh what was in. there oh just uh text threads with other. candidates who were actively conspiring. to hide their symptoms from AR Cadre. mask them with other drugs and Google. searches into discussion threads about.

we can mask this drug use by adding this. drug into it uh based off this data I. mean an active collaborative little pool. of of of bodies who were who are doing. this uh pretty deliberately wow pretty. with intent and they had that as part of. the original NCIS investigation that's. where it came from that's wor part they. had this the whole time yeah and they. tried to resist discovery of this to us. uh we got a hold of of some judge. Advocates who were Prosecuting that that. at least understood their obligations. but for the first time in 2 years we're. getting this material that they've had.

the entire time I I so I still don't do. we ever find out why why were they. targeting you we never really came to. that conclusion why why were they hiding. this [ __ ] cuz I mean they could have. just what well that D why didn't they. just. say the guy was on. Peds that was the original plan it's big. it's maybe not a big but there's a. little operation going on here within. this buds Class A bunch of candidates.

are on performance-enhancing drugs this. guy dies all the symptoms are here this. is what we found in the in the boxer the. cooler in his car yeah here's the text. messages Cas solved that's what happened. be super nice why did they go why did. they waste all this extra energy in and. hide [ __ ] and all this other stuff to. pin it to you well that's what we're. trying to find out I've started started. a Foya uh campaign to try to get the.

back backend Communications and the. records that would give us some. indication of their intent what why this. happened in the first place and I can. tell you I filed multiple Foya requests. and Privacy Act requests at all levels. um office of legislative affairs secnav. uh nssw I have yet to have one record. produced and in fact the most I've. gotten is a is a total denial Memo from. Chief the current chief of staff for NS. guy named captain CTS who also is the.

guy who we have reports is scouring. regulations to try to find something to. stick to Brad so that's where we're at. at this fight the next fight is the why. and to get some freaking transparency on. this issue and find out what was going. on but right now I mean what should be. thousands of Records I've got zero. what's Foya stand for Freedom of. Information. Act. well I'll give you a great example on. this why why aren't they given up the. records so I'll give you a great example.

on this one uh one of the foyers we know. came from a press release at some point. someone from I think maybe it's the. times I can't remember but they had. requested access to that initial line of. duty investigation which had been. serialized completed done we talked. about it last time Admiral kitner had. had independently verified it and then. it got buried and changed once once uh. uh uh the viceo at the time had said. change it so someone got worried about. this and they were trying to get access. to it I know from an Insider who was. sitting in a room with a bunch of Jags. and public affairs officers and they.

were trying to brainstorm ways to say no. to the foyer request and at one point. someone's idea was well let's say that. that was never completed investigation. therefore by fouryear rules we don't. have to release it it which point. another person in the meeting said hey. you guys can't actually do that that's. illegal like if you have a legitimate. reason to say no fine by by by the law. but you can't say that the response from. one of the Jags in the room was yeah but. can you imagine how bad it would be if. this got.

out that's a problem and that's not a. foer exemption that's a. problem here we are it got out yeah it. comes back to again we we don't Know. full intent yet but I do know uh that. was the intent like you said early on. when Amal Howard was still in command of. warcom that was his intent was we're. putting this behind us we know what. happened it's clear we're going to do. our best to preserve this guy's Legacy. and not not talk about all the stuff but. we're done we're moving on um we also.

know that somewhere around there is. where the second na at the time had said. no this sounds like victim blaming I. don't like that that's when it started. changing back to some of the stuff Davis. yce was saying in our last episode here. uh that's evidence of a problem within a. culture that's very similar to whatever. you want to call it Dei wokeness. whatever when you call someone a victim. you're automatically placing him in a in. an oppressor in an oppressive. relationship so so now where's the. oppressor if Kyle is the victim where's.

the oppressor we have to have an. oppressor so that begins the hunt and as. you talked about in the last episode as. we all know in the military if you give. the military a mission we'll get to the. end State um hopefully we won't. compromise ethics to get there and. that's in this case that's what happened. the end state is find an. oppressor thus began the. hunt jeez well get worse um as we're now. getting ready for this board of inquiry. uh we heard through the gra Vine.

validated uh that there was a separate. Bureau of Navy Medicine independent. investigation into the medical part of. all. this and we found out that they. determined that there was no medical. malpractice that our medical. professionals met the standard of care. expected of them no licenses were at. risk so what are they going to do just. reinvestigate it over and over until. they get it like they did the last time. we don't know that was probably their. hope but we asked for access to that be. investigation to fight the charges. because one of them was that I failed to.

provide proper medical. oversight but if my medical. professionals met the standard of care. how do you draw that line they denied us. access to the bed investigation it's. privileged information you guys can't. have it so you inflated a charge against. us you know that there's evidence that. vindicates us and you deny us access to. that evidence why you're charging it and. moving forward even worse the second. charge is that we failed to maintain a. safe command blah blah blah led to. Kyle's death well we knew that there was.

a safety investigation out there CU I. was debriefed on it again the numbers of. Investigations are ludicrous here but. but for the public the way to describe a. safety investigation it's actually. usually one of the most reputable. investigations because they come in and. say hey everyone has. anonymity um and there will be. absolutely no punitive actions taken by. anything the safety investigation fins. and the goal there is to have everyone. tell the complete raw truth and expose. where we might have been unsafely so we. can fix that and not have to worry about.

uh getting punished because of it the. air air uh um air Community does this. really really well Navy Pilots have a. very good very good safety standard when. it comes to these safety investigations. so the safety investigation actually got. wrapped up before I even left uh for my. next job and we remember getting. debriefed from the investigating. officers who said Hey listen it's pretty. clear what happened here nothing that. happened was unsafe based off of BTC. ttps tactics techniques procedures. um and none of that was related to.

Kyle's death this was a safe command. case closed so we said all right well. now that you've elevated and said ran an. unsafe command resulting in Kyle's death. we want access to that investigation. denied and that's one reason why they. wanted to avoid Court Marshal here right. in court Marshals you would have a uh a. judge right order production of. exculpatory material in the possession. of the government right we don't have. that in an administrative board that's. one of the parts they get to end run and. the only way to really compel them is to.

file an independent Federal lawsuit for. injunctive relief from a judge to get. that so they they know they can deny us. all day and the recourse is. difficult geez yeah it's it's how it's. the administrative process and this is. part of the problem with the system is. that it's they say it's non-punitive but. it really is punitive because through. that administrative process you can give. me another discharge all. administratively uh you can demote me in.

retirement uh separately. administratively you can take my Trident. um all administratively those are very. punitive things and you and I both know. having and you having all served active. duty you give someone an other than. honorable discharge you're ruining the. rest of their life potentially good luck. getting a job um and they can do that. administratively no no that's not. non-punitive that's very punitive and. being shy of a court of law or Court. Marshal they can vert due process laws. because well this is non-punitive so.

it's a play on words and it allows them. to basically hide information that they. know would vindicate you because they. want to meet their instate objective I. mean even. when this board was happening and we. started fighting it and trying to get. this access to. information and I was going public with. a few Outlets uh one of the people from. nav pers K his name is a Commander goes. on the record with one of these. Publications and said uh something about. we will find Captain Gary accountable. it's like hang on a minute dude a board.

of inquiry is supposed to be an. objective fact-f finding administrative. board and you're already talking in the. Open Press about you will find me. accountable sounds like a predetermined. outcome huh almost like it's consistent. with the entire process we've seen that. has been very manipulative well and to. show you the general disdain they have. for discovering this process back in. 2018 uh actually 2016 there was a. federal case out of this out of the. eastern district of New York um where. the entire case was remanded to the bo.

to a new Boi because there wasn't. sufficient Discovery given meaning. sufficient evidence provided about you. um unlawful command influence. specifically um and the court ordered. that the regulation actually had. expanded Discovery rights and that they. needed to provide these tangential. Discovery um pieces of evidence right. what was the Navy's response they went. and amended the regulation in 2019 1920. 6D instead of C to reduce the discovery. rights based on that on that uh case and.

that's the one we're operating under now. so they continually try to tell me. that's insufficiently directly related. right to Circle back to your question. also it's important to note why would. they want to do this right why would. they want to get this big well they're. not used to people fighting back and so. when they do it they can determine their. outcome they can hunt for anything they. want administratively hold anything they. want administratively and still punish. you and then tell someone out there we. held someone accountable we did our job. and most people can't fight back they.

either don't have the legal. representation to fight back they don't. have the fight in them it's it's looking. at Goliath um it's looking at Goliath. and they have infinite resources and so. I don't think they anticipated it's it's. impossible to win well impossible to win. unless yeah unless you get loud well and. the system is totally it is completely. corrupt it's impossible to win unless. you unless you have happen to have a way. to get the word out in a in in in in in.

in in front of millions of people Y and. get the attention of lawmakers we had. great lawyers from Jason from the. beginning Davis yce um Mark Jessup Tim. paror fantastic lawyers we had insiders. feeding us the emails and the evidence. like big black and white guys Case. Closed uh and then we had you and a. couple other people who had helped us. drop breadcrumbs along the way leading. up to this episode or last episode and. um and then Congressman started jumping.

on that and that's that's really what. gave us the Avenues to win I mean from. the beginning we had um uh Nick Loda. from New York Congressman Morgan lell. from Texas and Cory Mills from Florida. those were the three congressmen that. jumped on this from the beginning and. Senator Mark Wayne Mullen from Oklahoma. those four Dudes talk about breathing. life into our fight um but as much as. they raised issues the Navy still. ignored it uh they still kind of kept it. off to the side so it wasn't until after. our show where we started seeing that.

increase in attention Eli crane was the. first one uh that came on board after we. talked I talked to you this morning at. breakfast about a contact of a contact. put us in touch with the speaker of the. house that was a huge one we met with. him for a half an hour um what did he. say how was that meaning he was shocked. he was shocked and he's like hey I'm on. your side I'm I'm going to support you. on this one um it was fantastic and this. guy that got us the meeting just an. incredible American uh just called me. one day I told you uh hey Brad can you.

get the Tucson I got this meeting with. the speaker of the house for half an. hour if you can make it I'm like what. the speaker of the house oh yeah then um. then the big one in there too we started. getting some more Senators uh Senator. Tom cotton jumped on board he's a heavy. hitter he started helping Senator Tommy. tuberville huge heavy hitter started. helping I hope I said it right. tuberville or tuberville tuberville is. tuille I think I always mess it up I'm. sorry Senator I I always mess it up. coach is what everyone calls. um his now secr adviser uh uh David.

Jansen I become very good friends but um. so all of that started growing and then. the the one that was really the the big. pivot point was uh Congressman Brian. Mast from South Florida ironically. president Trump's personal Congressman. so his chief of staff Steven lighton. links us up from another team guy after. our show and he gives me the time a day. listens to everything goes okay here's. what we're going to do um he had started. this new uh justice for Warriors caucus. and so he said this is exactly what this.

thing exists for and so he partnered uh. me with the chief of staff some of his. other staff James Lang anderer and uh. Derek Miller they said we're going to. draft a letter that'll be from Congress. to the Secretary of Defense and then I. want you to schedule a trip to come out. to DC and we're going to shop this R and. try to get as many co-signers as. possible they said the key is we can't. come to DC without a plan we're coming. with an ask and all we're asking for is. your signature and so that was really. the Tipping Point after our show which. drove success because that ended with.

that first letter that I think we had. over 30 senators and congressmen coign. it um wow it was powerful man and and. and they were bringing up all the things. that we talked about and it was. basically saying hey Secretary of. Defense we don't like what we're seeing. these quotes that I mentioned earlier. we're seeing gross ethical violations. we're seeing lack of investigative. process uh we're seeing a lot of. alarming things they sent us to the. secretary in September. calm silent from DOD for another little.

bit the Navy kept doing all the things. we just talked about and so then they. sent a second second letter on I think. December 9th and then uh and that's when. they were really mad because like hey. not only are you ignoring us you're. showing contempt for congress but you. continue to deny them access to the. evidence that we all know vindicates. them what are we doing and through. insiders we knew that the prosecuting. attorney for that board of inquiry who. was doing his own questioning and fact. finding getting in preparation was. openly discussing with people he's like. we have no case who orchestrates all.

these congressmen and Senators I mean. somebody dude there is no master. orchestrator is it is it you guys the. attorneys we we just flat footed it we. walked everywhere you're driving blind. and and it were there's so much there. was it was really really interesting I. learned a lot about Congress and I. learned I never want to be a part of it. it's it's so it's chaos chaos amen but. it was great because you saw their. relationships matter and so there was. one where uh I'm with Senator Mark Wayne. mull in an elevator and and in comes.

Senator barasso and uh and mullen's like. hey I need you to take a look at this. listen to Brad He's got an important. story you can trust me he's like I need. you to be on his team he's like sounds. good I'm in so like in an elevator you. all of a sudden you get another. signature um or like Morgan Latrell and. Eli Crane and a couple those other guys. uh one of the nights they said hey. there's a vote on the house floor. tonight here's what we're going to do. we're going to bring you in with uh with. Bri master chief of staff enlightened. and we're going to have the letter and. then we're going to be all shuttling.

dudes off the floor into the cloak room. where you're going to be standing there. in your whites and you're going to give. them the the five-minute elevator speech. about everything that's happened and. what we need and where we're going and. we got we got I think like 25 signatures. that night in about an hour period by. people just coming in listening to the. pitch some of them were like hey I know. that dude I trust him he signed it I'm. good uh so it was really interesting. watching how these guys interact the. relationships and uh it was incredible. because it was I mean it was frenzy it. was a frenzy what was interesting is who.

didn't talk to us though right like that. they made this partisan right I mean. nobody in the left would talk to us I. mean at all it was it was really. interesting here we are uncovering. institutional corruption lying to the. American people and not a single to my. recollection not a single Democrat. returned our call and even stopping you. did approach him you cold called reached. out I stopped by my own Representatives. Office and said hey I'm here from. Colorado not a single response why do.

you think that. is I think I mean my opinion and I think. what we're seeing is that uh they. generally support institutional. corruption as long as it fits their ends. right and they didn't want to do. anything to embarrass the administration. uh in that time period and didn't want. to do anything that could be at all. tracked back to um an admin ation that. was going to an election uh and so they.

just ignored us right should be. bipartisan issues though yeah truth is. bipartisan everyone should care about. this yeah it's a big deal what a shame. what a shame I mean it it's ironic now. that uh obviously the this. Administration is doing some very. interesting things and I've heard some. of the criticisms is oh you are you're. politicizing roles that are supposed to. be. apolitical and I I I have to laugh cuz. it's like no the people that are being. fired allowed those roles to become. politicized this is the correction.

measure this is the return to a. politization and the the military should. be a political we 100% should be but. we've lost our way as a military and I. think we're seeing the correction come. uh great example I mentioned beef. Drexler he was one of the other three. wrapped into this thing with us he he. and I uh were great uh but we we having. coffee and he was telling me how one of. his kids I can't remember whether it his. son or daughter but one of his kids he. was just talking to uh uh the kid and. said hey I'm curious uh what's going on.

with all the recruitment challenges and. why people aren't joining the Navy and. the Marine Corps and the and the the. duty in general and his kid said well. yeah Dad um we all see it at high school. level and it it's just become very. politicized and it and beef said well. Miller is a political though and his kid. just looked at him eyebrow raised like. really you're going to say that after. what's happened to all of you guys and. he had to shrug his shoulders and be. like yeah you're right I mean the public. saw this kids were seeing at high school.

you can't fool kids MH they saw the Pol. politization of the military and now. finally were coming back to being. focusing on lethality focusing on war. fighting like it was so needed so needed. so what was it that kind of turn the. tides in was it all the congressmen and. Senators it was the two letters so that. second letter December 9th they sent it. and it was is strongly worded it's out. there it's released I would encourage. people to read it it's what did it say. oh gosh I mean. like I've quoted gross ethical. violations like this is absurd they said.

we demand at this point you drop all. charges against Brad Gary and Eric Ry. let them retire and we want a new. investigation to the corruption that we. have seen here the institutional. corruption we've seen here as far as I. know they've they answered the the first. part they they dropped the charges. between me and Eric Remy but they've not. started an investigation in the insal. corruption uh but that was released on. December 9th very very strongly worded. and then uh December 12th is when I got. the phone call that they were dropping. all charges finally Jason what what what.

were the what would the repercussions. have been had they dug their feet in had. they dug their feet and dro the charges. with with a letter like that with all. those signat I mean there's no direct. repercussions I think that that's was. one of my more surprising um pieces of. knowledge gained in this thing is that. the military uh has a a large ability to. ignore Congress if they want to um of. course you've got tuberville who's. willing to freeze appointments right so.

maybe you would have seen some. Downstream freezing on some uh. promotions uh but as far as like direct. consequences unless called to a hearing. under subpoena there's almost no direct. consequences for just continuing to do. what they want to do and they why why. what why did they fold well I actually. have a slightly different view I think. it was a combined arms attack here that. got us there but we uh there were some. key pieces of evidence released to us. uh one the text messages from his phone. two uh a great deal of uh photos of an.

that purport to be of Sean mullen's car. and let me just say again this is our. rational perception of the evidence but. what they released to me was uh tons of. photos of drugs uh Black Market uh. performance-enhancing drugs with used. syringes all kinds of stuff I mean reams. of stuff um were finally produced to us. we why were those produced. finally a discovery so so by linking it.

to to uh Brad's actions did cause. Grievous bodily injury or death right. even the administrative prosecutor who. admitted he didn't have a case despite. rule 3.1 that requires him not to take F. frivolous actions forward but despite. that he he still understood that they. have a discovery obligation that. minimally tracked to the NCIS. investigation right that they had yet to. give us and this was the NCIS. investigation that was done like that. day. and all of this evidence had been in. their hands um and we asked I asked a.

basic question I said Okay so we've got. a drug case now did where's the talkx. lab results for all the drugs that were. uh that were in his car right uh and. they came back and said we didn't test. them now this is where I start to to. have. significant concerns that when we get to. our Foya information that we're going to. find that the secnav office stopped the. investigation because there has not been.

a single NCIS investigation I've ever. been associated with either Prosecuting. or defending where NCIS obtained and. seized a drug or something purporting to. be a drug even halfus syringes and did. not test the substance so I think. somebody hit the off switch and I don't. know why yet um but that's the only. thing that so what happens when you find. out who it was and why they did it I. mean we go. public right what does that do I mean.

it's public humiliation does that is. that a career Ender you have any. recourse for that there's still active. duty and we find that happen 100% I mean. now you've got them on uh that's. unlawful command influence uh to like an. Nth Degree yeah I mean I think the point. is is that we've always been dedicated. to the objective truth record right and. the objective truth record thanks to you. is has had to play out publicly and this. is this is an extension of that that. ultimately now we are litigating not. just to fully restore Brad but to to.

make the the the truth record unsalable. so that all of this crap that they've. been saying for years gets cut through. and we deal with facts so that's my. interest my interest now is to not only. vindicate Captain Gary his Cadre and. everyone else but to ensure that the. American people see that there is still. processes by which we are able to stick. to and expose objective. truth are there still processes through.

that well I mean that's part of what we. think needs to change I mean these whole. things this whole system has to be. overhauled it's interesting you know we. referred to the the what we're seeing. this k i don't ever hear anything good. happening no I mean it's not and I think. they bar here there I mean look yeah got. [ __ ] all over my wall over we got the. the Blackwater guys they head the Drone. evidence we got the Eddie Gallagher. charges yeah your. stuff just the other day I did this.

interview with uh Josh Mass you guys. hear about that I haven't heard that one. yet adopted an an Al-Qaeda baby now. they're trying to oh that's the Marine. yeah that's I mean it's just it's just. it's just like yeah what are we doing. here right does. anything I mean all the pardons come out. right before the administration change. yeah ton of them the way we just like. blanket pardons yeah. I mean prospective is there any justice. here anymore is serious I'm not [ __ ].

around is there yeah no you can get it. you have to work hard at it you can't. stop and often you go 10x and you get 1X. right you get something list P. list bad what the [ __ ] is going on man. well we're seeing I mean we were just. talking about this in the car I think. what we're seeing with this election is. somewhat of a it's a beautiful thing. because it's a it's a peaceful. revolution in a lot of ways it's the. American public seeing all this happen. for so long in so many different forums.

saying like enough we want radical. transparency and accountability and so. you're seeing that you're seeing. president Trump execute that through. Elon Musk with Doge you're seeing it. through secretary Heth what he's doing. right now uh radical transparency and. accountability and I think the way we've. done business in the past is irrelevant. because of the way the things you've. talked about on this show the shift from. Legacy Media to long form podcasts um. the the shift from trusting a news. source to give you the truth to Let's.

actually find out from the source. themselves and stop trusting people to. filter package it up into an executive. narrative and give it to me as they see. fit based upon their bias and so it's a. massive Revolution and I think we're. seeing the same we're going to need to. see the same things in the Navy and the. Department of Defense in general is a. shift to understanding that hey man the. old days are gone from you being able to. send a three-line public affairs officer. narrative let that appease the public. and the Navy all while you kind of say.

don't look over here while we. administratively punish these people all. in the name sake of good or discipline. and accountability no Sailors are tired. of it and you're going to they're going. to need to evolve back to gen Z to be. relevant to what this generation expects. as they enter the the workforce and are. the larger dominant part of it now uh we. got to change everything we going to. change everything they're going to. demand radical transparency just like. the American public's demanding it now. and I don't mean operational we. shouldn't tell off our our top secret. stuff but how we handle these types of.

things we have to be more radically. transparent and if you don't if they. don't if they fail to evolve you're G to. have more guys like me sitting in this. chair calling them out yeah yeah I. mean so the case got dismissed but now. they're now they're they're coming after. you again yeah so how are they coming. after it's it's it's good um so there's. another administrative instruction out. there that somebody signed at some point. that probably was started for a very. good reason just like we talked about.

risk management last time great. intentions turned into a military. process oftentimes subvert the very. intent behind uh uh the idea from the. beginning so they found this instruction. that says basically if you submit for. retirement within two years of. substantiated allegations as part of. investigation against you they can send. you to a independent board uh for a pay. grade determination. so in other words they can demote me in. retirement all administratively simply.

because we're within a 2-year window. from that NY investigation being. finalized now the problem here is that. you could interpret that instruction a. couple different ways um the way I think. you should interpret it is that was not. a credible investigation congress's. words grossly unethical lacked. investigative Integrity so to say that. that investigation represents credible. allegations against me and Eric Remy. well that's false that's the whole. reason the whole thing got dropped but. yet you're using that because I filed. for retirement and they said well we're.

going to pursue this board anyway we're. just Brad we're following the. instruction as we're supposed to and. we're trusting the. process so okay it basically means a. biased investigation a biased. investigators findings that are. unsupported by the objective record can. dictate whether or not you lose. thousands in. retirement and I know that they're. subjectively targeting me because one of. my other peers was just part of a whole. another investigation he just submitted. retirement got it approved so they're.

arbitrarily picking. me uh which shows us that okay you're. making a deliberate Choice here you. clearly did not like what we've done and. how we've handled this and you're intent. on finding a way to get to. me they just can't stop it's like help. me help you man like please I mean don't. I mean why just why don't they just want. it to end you think you think. who's the lead on this Chief Naval.

Personnel how long until Pete fires. him can't be soon enough in my book. can't be soon enough in my. book chief of Naval Personnel what's his. name Admiral Cheeseman oh this is the. Cheeseman guy same guy who was in the. email same guy who signed and and good. last name notice the. board I mean. so they're trying to pull so they're. basically trying to to take your.

retirement well they're trying to demote. me in retirement um which is basically. it's it's taken a large chunk of your. retirement yeah I'm not sure actually. cuz you're supposed to get the higher. three average when you retire so you're. whatever pay averaged out for the last. three years so even if you demote me in. rank I don't know if it affects the pay. exactly so it could be a nothing Burger. but it's still it's them it's a black. eyy it's a black guy and and they're. trying to do it at at a fight I think uh. when I know that they didn't have to and. they don't have to you can choose to.

interpret that and there's no reason to. and there's nothing that stops them from. saying I've determined that. investigation is not credible and you're. not subject to this regulation go ahead. and retire well the funny thing too is. they've dragged this thing out for so. long March 24th next month we hit the. two years from that investigation so all. we did was hey pull my. retirement cancel it I'm going to. resubmit it on March 25th that exceeds. your statute of limitations I get to. retire as a captain so there there's a. mechanism we're we're working through it.

but it it it just exposes their intent. to the fact that they can't let go and. they just keep trying these things so. Admiral Cheeseman. M Junior to be specific Junior Cheeseman. Junior nice yeah. um anything else what El are they coming. at you for anything else no I mean have. you heard from what has there been any. response from Kyle mullen's. family so what we heard through the news.

uh is that the Navy told Regina Mullen. that new information come to light and. that's all they would tell her on why. they canceled our. Boi uh we don't know what that near. information is we have suspicions based. on our demand that they test the drugs. the vials of the vials of alleged drugs. right that who knows what was in them. what kind of contaminants who knows the. Purity who knows what drugs were even in. them or not in them um we suspect that. might have been in the calculus there in. getting our whole thing dropped but we. don't know for sure other than that we.

haven't heard too much yeah it was. around the same time period they. withdrew that we were expecting the. results back so there's some correlation. there no good yeah no good what are we. missing I mean that's the majority of. what they've done since then did anybody. ever apologize to you one guy did yeah. cuz we we talked about that at the end. right said of love you know we want to. leave that open that forgiveness piece. uh one guy has has apologized since our. show uh master that I think very highly. of um and he said it well uh it was it.

was a powerful text actually brought me. to tears because we we had been very. close friends and and I'm paraphrasing. it now but he said basically we should. have stood by you we should not have let. lies perpetuate and we should have. rallied around our teammate instead we. uh we didn't he said I'm sorry for that. and uh will you forgive. me so we he and I have totally. reconciled good yeah there's there's. some goodness in that. and uh yeah a lot of goodness in that I. wish more had I wish but but back to our.

first discussion about power causing. brain damage I don't think a lot of. people. understand they they legitimately think. their actions are. right because they're defending the. institution and so they justify this in. some sort of a moral relativism and a. misplacement of loyalty right it's it's. like you're being will back to the. Splinter and the log you're being. willfully blind about what's really. going on right now now and you're. misplacing your loyalty to the. institution above the Constitution.

that's a very very dangerous thing to do. and those two in sequence like that is a. very very dangerous thing to do that's. how you end up with institutional. corruption that's how you end up with a. navy that no longer aderes to honor. courage and commitment we've got to see. these changes how do how do you think I. mean the the how do you think that this. case. affected Naval special Warfare the. sentiment the morale the guys that are. actually out there doing the job not the. Admiral cheeseman's yeah I can tell you. how it affected him I mean how did it.

affect retention how did it affect the. sentiment how did it affect morale how I. mean you got to have a lot they I would. assume that the maybe I should make. assumptions but I mean if I was still in. and I was you know a a young operator. Still Still you know gung-ho about being. a seal and going and doing the job it. would it would cause a complete distrust. yes in the in the entire institution and. I I would I don't serve that kind of.

[ __ ] I would have left there is a. growing trust Gap uh and I I mean I hear. from the guys um the break is about my. peering up some of my peers are for me. doing it this way uh they saw all the. actions I took to before this to try to. diffuse this um but but but some of them. yeah like we've talked about just just. no matter what My reasonings were. they're going to they're going to. disapprove but the the majority of the. force that I've talked to the operators. to shoot Shooters there's a trust Gap. growing and how they've seen this thing.

handled and what they would love to see. right now I think I still have coffee. with some of my old buds candidates too. so like we're still we're still talking. and they're giving me the this is what. the platoon are. saying uh what they would love to see is. the community rally and say hey we. messed this up we should have stood by. our teammate we should have been under. the boat with him um we should have. defended our own by by lies from the. outside and we should have done that at. all costs we used to be we used to be. the shining example of how to do this in. Naval special Warfare we used to do.

really really good at taking care of our. people uh we didn't do it in this case. and they would love to see the force. come together and say we messed it up. we're going to a this and we're going to. figure out how we did this what we did. wrong and and promis that we're never. going to let this happen again we're. going to take care of our people um soft. truth number one humans are more. important than hardare show them show. them right now we're hav't shown them. and and I don't want to overinflate my. case it's not just about me but my case.

is a symptom of a larger problem that. they are seeing crystal clear back to. gen Z they are incredibly intuitive this. generation it's very interesting I got. to see a lot of them coming up through. buds they're very intuitive High EQ. they're very Mindful and um they're not. going to tolerate this they're not going. to tolerate it they see the trend line. they see that hey this is not the. organization I thought it was there's m. massive trust gaps uh one guy said it. really well to me he was an E6 recently.

he's like he. sir they criticize us at the platoon for. being a pirate culture he said yet we. are a pirate culture because they drive. us to be because we don't trust them so. they show themselves to be untrustworthy. senior officers out there not all of. them I don't want to overgeneralize but. but but a couple of them and so we. isolate ourselves which they interpret. to be air culture yet they're the ones. that have caused. that yeah tough one man are guys leaving. oh yeah massive retention problems right. now and again it's not not CU of me uh.

but they see the larger problems and uh. massive attrition or retention problems. across the force right now I mean I. don't think we've seen this many 05s and. 06s getting out in a long time they're. scratching their heads what so what does. that look like what is that Gap so. you've got a bunch of Admirals and you. have massive retention problems and you. got what like a a. a a bunch of.

e4s well I mean like who who's going to. fill that Gap he that's the problem. right you have to replenish the force. and so and a lot of these Admirals and. stuff they've never even been to combat. so they they don't have any. experience so who's going. to who's going to fill on the Gap here. and and teach the younger generation how. to fight a war when these guys have been. sitting behind a [ __ ] desk there. entire career well thankfully a lot a. lot of our emerals do have combat. experience um and even when they leave.

guys in my generation are still coming. up to the ranks I'm looking at the the. guys right now in command at the 05. level I'm very encouraged by what what. I'm seeing in some of these these combat. leaders so we still have that and that. institutional knowledge will continue to. get handed down what what I'm more. concerned about is that the majority of. our base force is the e5s and e6s right. that's the largest pool of bodies that. comes out of buds and does one or two. platoon and if we're driving them out of. the teams faster than we can replenish.

them um you know that's a problem. because now we're going to degrade what. Naval special Warfare can even resource. when it comes to what our nation asks us. to do and the inevitable problem that. comes from that usually is if you're if. you're having a hard time replenishing. the force well then they increase the. pressure to produce more well if you're. increasing the pressure to produce more. that usually means you're reducing the. standard in order to get more and and. that's kind of we I mean we just labeled. the cartels terrorist organizations I. would think people I think I would think.

guys would be excited to stay in this. exciting time we're potentially on the. cusp of World War III you know TVD to. see how that plays out we got China. tapping at the door yeah you know with. Taiwan that's I mean there's a lot of. [ __ ] going on and we have major. retention problems not only in the in. the US military but in in Naval special. Warfare which are the war. Fighters yeah man um that's why we've. said in this that truth and transparency.

is a national security issue 100% all. this is linked to that 100%. And yeah man uh plus all this all the co. stuff a bunch of guys left we drove we. drove dudes out who's left I mean. there's some really good dudes left for. sure but but here we are an all. volunteer Force we took away the 20-year. pension also by the way so so what do. you mean we took away the 20 so they no. longer offer a 20-year pension uh for. people to join the.

military what yeah that went away a. couple years ago yeah it's now a. contributed retirement plan it's like a. 401k basically that can go with you but. you got to be shitty oh no that went. away that was like 10 years ago Dude um. I didn't even know that yeah so so that. was a huge incentive for a lot of people. to stay is hey I can keep serving but I. can guarantee myself some Financial. stability for later parts of life um. knowing that I'm losing marketability on. the outside right every day we stay and. we get older like you're missing. opportunities out there but but you.

don't do it for the money we do it for. this for the service uh but yeah that's. still a big carrot that that used to be. there to dangle so now that's gone I. mean what incentives are you providing. people to stay in the military these. days when when you've taken away some of. them back to what we talked about last. time as leaders all of our decisions. have to be either incentivizing or. disincentivizing a particular Behavior. what are we hoping to achieve here I. don't see us providing a lot of. incentives to our young troops to want. to serve when they see the.

administrative system and the njp system. abusing their own um doing things like. they did with us and i' lost count of. the people that have hit me up on. LinkedIn after our show same thing. happened to me same thing happened to me. I mean thousands people and you start. connecting dots and talking to other. people who know of other thousands in. the Army and in the Marines and in the. whatever this is this is this is a. really really alarming Trend and we are. driving people out of the military. because we punish so severely sometimes. unjustly sometimes even when a guy does. something right the punishment is so.

disproportionate that it's driving them. out too I'll give you a great example. um one of my candidates when I was at. BTC hurt himself and then he goes home. for Christmas break and his mom gives. him some uh CBD pills and she's like hey. uh this will help your healing there's a. lot of science on it um it doesn't have. THC don't worry about it it's like uh. okay so he does it now he violated a. Navy instruction you're not supposed to. take CBD whether it has THC or not uh.

but he ended up he did it did have THC. so he popped positive on on a test so we. did the investigation we we he confessed. immediately he was a really really sharp. young man um totally honest and. forthcoming so we said all right let's. find a way to help this guy fall forward. uh we took him to mass and I found him. not guilty of knowingly ingesting a. controlled substance because he didn't. knowingly ingest THC but I did have to. find him guilty for knowingly violating. US policy but it was a much lower. offense than than taking knowingly. taking a controlled substance I thought. this is the way to help him fall forward.

great I still had to drop him from the. program but like wrote a huge letter on. his behalf this is a man of Honor he has. Integrity he confessed let's go he's. going to be a phenomenal leader in the. Navy somewhere else so we catapulted him. off to success I get a call from him Hey. sir having some Hang-Ups uh they're. asking for an admiral letter so I ask. Admiral Howard he writes a letter on his. behalf okay we'll get him to another. Community another year later he calls me. Hey sir I'm up for my security clearance. review because I have a guilty mask in. my record uh I need you to write another.

letter for me if you're willing and able. to convince them to to renew my security. clearance that I'm still trustworthy. okay now the year goes by Hey sir I'm up. for promotion uh they're stalling my. promotion because of our Mask two and a. half years ago now uh can you write me. another letter sure write you another. letter and so what we saw is that. administrative bureaucratic machine just. take over and continually punish this. guy because well these are our processes. and these are in our instructions and so. we just kept eating him down years after.

he should have been able to fall forward. and recover from was a bad mistake but. like should be survivable and that's. what we see that's a micro example but I. think that's what sailor soldiers and. Airman are seeing at a macro level. consistently with their friends like why. would I keep. serving when I make one small mistake. that would cost me nothing as a civilian. not even a blip on the radar but look. what happened to me and look what. happened to my buddy over here for the. next four years he's dealing with this. zero defect mentality and then. disproportionate punishment yeah I mean.

that's what what we seeing across the. board jeez it's. demoralizing and the human toll uh is is. is huge it's huge yeah let's take a. quick. break I know everybody out there has to. be just as frustrated as I am when it. comes to the BS and the rhetoric that. the main M stream media continuously. tries to force feed us and I also know.

how frustrating it can be to try to find. some type of a reliable news source it's. getting really hard to find the truth. and what's going on in the country and. in the world and so one thing we've done. here at Shan Ryan Show is we are. developing our. newsletter and the first contributor to. the newsletter that we have is a woman. former CIA targeter some of you may know. her as Sarah Adams called call sign. super bad she's made two different. appearances here on the Shawn Ryan Show.

and some of the stuff that she has. uncovered and broke on this show is just. absolutely. mindblowing and so I've asked her if she. would contribute to the newsletter and. give us a weekly intelligence brief so. it's going to be all things terrorists. how terrorists are coming up through the. southern border how they're entering the. country how they're traveling what these. different terrorist organizations. throughout the world are up to and. here's the best part the newsletter is.

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break where were we I think we were. talking about gen Z that's right I'm. actually interested how is Gen Z yeah in. Naval special Warfare other than just. pissed off rightly so and leaving in. droves yeah it's it's I like them I like. them a lot what is that generation like. so you know every generation in in. combat and then in the community yeah I. don't know in combat yet I guess cuz. these guys are just getting into the. workforce right now right so I think the. last ones that saw combat were probably. Millennials uh but we're making that.

shift right now and I think it's an. important shift it's interesting um. Simon synic wrote a book He's written a. few but Leaders Eat Last is one of my. favorites and he talks about these. generational differences and how. important it is as Leaders to evolve to. be relevant to these next. Generations um so my observations with. Gen Z we talked about a little bit very. high EQ very impressive they have a low. tolerance for um. abuse of authority um they're they're. unimpressed it's interesting some people.

look at them as you're too disrespectful. like you don't value the hierarchical. structure that we put in place I I don't. see it as that actually I think it's. that they're they've got a lot more. courage to stand up to Authority than. any of us ever did let me give you an. example we had this young guy in uh Buds. and he had a mistake out in town and so. he was going to come before me as the co. board that whole process we talked about. last time where I was going to determine. whether is going to stay or go in our. system and like we talked about every. candidate writes a letter uh it's their.

last appeal I read it before we bring. them in and then question him and make. our decisions but the title of his. letter was fear no. man like that's interesting that sticks. out that's a little different so already. I was like what's this guy's deal so my. CMC Dave Hansen's like hey yo let me put. some rounds across this guy's bow let's. try to Rattle him let's find out what. this is all about is this ego is this. guy have an ego here so dude comes in. sits down and my CMC is just letting him. have it I mean like yelling like like if.

you've ever been on the receiving end of. Dave Hansen you know giving it to you. not a great place to be and I'm watching. this guy's body language the whole time. just like you and I are sitting here. right now dude if we had a if we had a. pulse pulse oomer whatever it is I don't. think his pulse would have jumped One. Beat dude just sat there and took it he. was so secure in. himself um and he he was like Hey I I. don't think I made a mistake here's what. I did here are the facts of my case uh I. stand by it I regret that we're in this.

room and we found ourselves here but I. stand by my decisions and what I did and. my choices and we're sitting there and. so so we're like this guy's impressive. and so I hit him up on last question I. asked him I said hey man I have a. question for you you wrote Fear no man. right now I've got all the authority in. the world to let you continue on in your. dream of becoming an AB seal or end your. career right now and moving on to. something else do you fear me. and without skipping a beat this dude. leans forward he goes no sir but I.

respect. you that's Jen Zena nutshell I was so. impressed like Not only was I. impressed having gone through what now. I've gone through I can tell you I. thought of him probably every single day. I was going through this struggle. because I'm like how do I get what that. dude has as a 22-year-old man to look. an' 06 in in the eyes and have no fear. he did not fear me he respected me um.

how do I do that because I was very. afraid when I started this journey and. started pushing back against Authority. and saying this is wrong I think we're. having a problem here guys I was very. afraid to do that I was very afraid to. confront uh people who with higher rank. than me so I'm looking to this gen Z guy. he's 20 something years younger than me. I'm like I'm inspired by this guy I got. to learn from him um wow they're. impressive man that takes that Big Balls. MH and you don't just fake that that was.

genuine other things I saw with these. this generation um man some of them so. you would say that's a common ality. throughout J I saw a lot of that in genz. yes yeah. mhm that's one story but I saw things. like that so it's a good one to use to. kind of I think um use an example to to. say that this is pretty consistent what. I saw across this this. generation um we always like to pick on. the Next Generation make fun of them. obviously cuz they're different from. ours some of the things I did notice. that are negatives um they don't to.

quote an Italian soft guy they don't. bruise well and what I mean is uh some. of them were helicopter parented I think. growing up and so they can't handle they. don't handle failure well when they fail. at something sometimes they emotionally. crumble we saw candidates do that um we. saw candidates do that one guy this guy. was a total stud um class leader class. oicc I mean he looked like he was. chiseled out of the like the Gran of. Oklahoma like this guy was just. quintessential what you think of as you. want as a potential seal officer great.

dude showed a lot of great leadership. attributes um class loved him very. charismatic everyone was running with. this guy and then on day one of first. phase he failed his first Four Mile Tim. run and he quit filed it by like two. seconds and he quit we're like what you. know you almost want to like how do you. rewind the clock sometimes and say no no. no don't say that but he said it and you. know how that is you don't unring that. Bell and our country like why did you do. that dude like you were crushing this. program everyone loved you and he said.

well how can I lead men if I can't hold. the standard. myself now our point to him was that's. admirable however you missed the entire. point of our program nobody ever. succeeds at everything how do you lead. through adversity is a better question. how do you lead when you don't succeed. because as we talked about the enemy. gets a vote uh sometimes you can do all. the right things on Target and still be. caught on your heels how do you lead in. those cases uh so that was that was a. negative that I saw in their generation.

but that wasn't consistent with all of. them but but a lot of them um man they. are they have an incredible sense of. teamm ship uh one more story and then. we'll move on I think but uh this one. time I was coming out of a couple months. out of a boot I had broken my foot um. and so I was not in the best shape. haven't been in a boot for like 3 months. in my first phase y see total stud he's. like Hey sir we're doing the murf as a. class um we're going to lead the murf.

for one of these uh pts it was I think. we're at the one of the anniversaries of. Red Wings or one of these things and and. um are you in and in my mind I'm. thinking like dude I'm not in shape to. do a murf in front of candidates right. now um but how do you say no you know he. the skipper so of course I'll be there. so me and my CMC show up and we doing. this and um man I was sucking like bad. bad and I'm so far behind everyone else. they're like knocking out all their reps.

all for those out there Don with the. Murphy you can look it up but it's it's. a mile run I think it's 100 pull-ups 200. push-ups and 300 squats is that right. and another mile run I think that's. right um so I'm still cranking out my. reps and these guys are already done. with their reps and they've started. their second run and it's just me and my. CMC on the grinder now still doing the. Reps like we're that far behind. everybody because I'm that out of shape. and it was embarrassing I was I was. humiliated as a CO my CMC was a good. teammate he was pretending that like he.

was hanging with me like like oh no it's. not you dragging me back but it totally. was he was just being a good good swim. buddy so uh we started our run and now. guys are actually coming back from the. last run and I'm I'm so beat down and. defeated and depressed uh as as I'm. running through the sand I'm looking at. my feet I'm depressed I'm I'm watching. The Sweat fall of my face and I'm. thinking like how do I Salvage this. moment as the SEO here uh when I wasn't. hanging with these dudes and I I've. embarrassed myself and I get to the turn. around Point hit it turn around and.

start to run back and I see something. different I look up and I see my first. phase OIC see coming back to pick me up. and as he comes around the corner a. candidates behind him another candidate. behind him another candidate behind him. no one told him to do this they came. back filed in right behind me didn't say. a word just got in place marched with me. to pick me up as a straggler there was. no condemnation in their eyes there was. no uh pity there was nothing other.

than we're here to be a teammate and as. we're marching now all of a sudden like. another one files in another whole class. uh I start to get a little bit better my. gate opens up my breathing fixes I'm. starting to get okay that that surge of. energy and my first phase OIC Whispers. behind me it's always nice KN when. someone's coming back for you and this. was this class and they just did it and. then we come around the corner they do. their class chant I'm joining in the. Chant dude I got goosebumps like like.

man these guys are incredible super. inspirational just one more I can't stop. one more we're at s island uh Dave and I. and we hear this weird noise we come. around the corner Sun's going down and. the whole class is standing around the. American flag and they're doing colors. and they're lowering it and they're. singing the National Anthem as a class. so we stop salute do the thing and I. look at the instructors I said hey um. do we mandate that is that something. like we forced them to do they're like. no no they just do it on their own they.

started it a couple classes back as a. tradition and they just kept passing it. on these Patriots just love their. country uh and they bring so much to the. table not to mention the fact that they. they're incredibly. Innovative man yeah cool to hear yeah we. that's something I want to dive into a. little bit breakfast we were talking. about out um they are innovators yeah. and they're fast innovators and it.

sounds like the the military in general. is having a hell of a it's impossible. for them to keep up right you were. talking about that and so I it sounds. like the sealed teams need their own. Science and Technology. shop well I mean you could just say gen. Z run you know uh cuz they they are the. Science and Tech these guys I mean they. they grew up on cell phones they. understand coding they understand man. machine pairing in ways that we can't.

understand from Our Generations I didn't. get my first smartphone till what like. mid-30s or early 30s maybe and so they. are automatically looking at problems. through a different lens than than we'll. ever get to uh on top of that you know. while we did some great things in the. war on terror and we evolved as a as a. as a war fighting entity I think that a. lot of that is built scar tissue and is. irrelevant in the fight to come and so. we're holding on to that is my. generation a little bit like no no we. were successful because we did it this.

way well that's irrelevant and genz sees. that it's irrelevant um and in a sense. we're almost slowing them down as a as a. military uh as a military uh our. acquisition process in general is too. slow it's a five we talked about this. it's a fiveyear cycle and that's if you. have a requirement written to get. something into the cycle and and funded. in order to get it in the war Fighters. hands and what we're hearing from the. lines of Ukraine is that they're on a. 30-day cycle of evolution right now. where they come up with a new tactic.

Monster Garage 3D print whatever. Implement and within 30 days the enemy. can counter it and so now you're having. to evolve to a new tactic a new. technique a new procedure a new piece of. equipment that helps you exploit now. what they're doing differently and so. it's this constant 30-day Loop but we're. supposed to catch up with that with a. fiveyear cycle right now to fund our our. troops with the next piece of gear have. you have you seen them is there anything. specific you've seen them invent or. innovate that that captured your. interest I mean yeah yeah uh yeah for.

sure. um let me think here I think you were. talking about drones yeah I mean there's. a there's a bunch of examples so I was. going I was going through my files and. then I'm wondering what can I say what. can I not but the drones is a great. example is just last weekend we're at a. hotel with some some people and uh we. had an E6 and then a contractor who's. helping them out and they literally. brought like a 3D printer and all this. stuff and they're like 3D printing parts. of a. drone uh soldering wires together uh and.

making this like mobile backpack with a. drone with a some glasses that serve as. an. fpv um first person point of view with. an overlay so it's almost it's almost. like what lucky was talking about with. you uh a few episodes ago but the. Monster Garage version lowte for sure. but so you can see through the glasses. normally but you'd have the overlay. image of what the Drone was doing and. they were like just in their off time. came up with this are you [ __ ] me.

just coming up with this and they yeah. we don't so what what what what sparked. that mini. invention they they just want the. technology and the and the SEAL Teams. doesn't have it so they're like [ __ ] it. we'll just make it I think so like we. could do this I mean like like like. harness that kind of energy cut it off. the leash you know what I mean like hey. dudes here's your left and rights. um let's give you funding authorities. and equipment to just experiment and.

have fun with this stuff uh boom run. let's see what we come back with compete. by teams see what Rises to the top buy. some offthe shelf stuff Monster Garage. it we should just be giving these like. Limitless authorities in. autonomy Direction run this way you. can't cross these thresholds legally. whatever but but right now um I mean. they're doing it on their own because. they're hungry and they see that there's. a need but we're not evolving fast. enough as a military to I think scratch. their itch as gen Z and that's a problem.

because like we've talked about they're. not going to sit around forever and wait. for us to to do what needs to be done. they're going to leave because they I. can go make money somewhere else doing. this or or if this isn't going to if. you're not as Innovative as I hoped you. were when I got here I'm going to walk. away you only have so much shelf life. before they're they're going to get. impatient and walk away what would it. take to do what would it take to do that. to to to have an S&T shop set up with. funding. they can innovate you get it's I mean. the whole I did a couple years in the. acquisition World um there's so many.

there's a few laws mandated by Congress. and how you do this thing so that's. that's part of it those you can't bend. but then there tons of these policies. that have happened over time which have. created these procedures which are just. behemoths to get through and so I think. what we need to do is and I know uh I've. read secretary heg is talking about um. overhauling the acquisition process. within DOD so I think we're going to get. there that's what I keep telling these. young guys like hang on dudes like I. think all the right change is coming.

that whole system needs to be overhauled. just like we've talked about other. things here with the legal the. administrative um to give those kinds of. guys the autonomy to actually innovate. and and show us what what give us the. solutions that we don't even know we. need yet and I think they're ready and. they're hungry for that we just have to. empower them and get out of their way. use guys like me well I'm on the way out. but but guys that are still in like me. let me use my authority in my top cover. to support you provide you a pot of. money you know you have finite amount of.

money but this is your money and here's. your authorities to do whatever you want. and figure out uh how this could work I. guarantee you they're going to come back. with solution upon solution upon. solution that have boggled our minds for. 20 30 years I know for a fact they will. because I saw that when I was the CU of. STV team one uh I can't go into too many. details but we had a couple underseat. problems that had stumped our community. for 30 years 30 years I walked in the. room young platoon lieutenant and the. chief running the show Young Jen zers yo.

dudes here's the problem whiteboard. here's a case of beer see if you can. solve this. problem solved it no stuff that had. stumped us for 20 30 years they're like. oh what if we do this oh no one's ever. thought of that how come no one's ever. thought of that I don't know because. we're. old CU because we have we're stuck in. our ways we're like holy cow that and. they literally changed the. Paradigm in our undersee ability one.

platoon by trying something having an. idea and then trying it that nobody else. had tried and then they're like well. what about this other problem that we. have that stumped people for a long time. as well can you solve that there's. another case of beer solve that these. guys were delivering incredible results. in Rapid. success um that in a normal like cycle. you're talking about well we submit this. uh um this problem this need Commander. statement of needs or concerns or.

something like we have this need like. three to four years later some program. office somewhere delivers something. that's like okay that would have been. useful three years ago when I when I we. highlighted that it was a need now it's. almost. irrelevant um these guys were doing that. within months wow one capability they. thought of Open Source bot got waivers. to dive it and we implemented it we. added some mods to it cuz we got waves. to that and we implemented it on a real. world op in less than a year from. concept to execution proven and taken.

down range and it was all them wow all. young dudes in spite of the system in. spite of you know us who just hold that. thing back sometimes wow how. many how many leaders within Naval I. mean is this is this. a is this is this or lot of leaders like. you and they're they're trying to. empower these guys or is there a lot of. push back uh probably both probably both.

it's hard to say I mean it's hard to say. um we we got some really good ones out. there that are like trying to jump like. run with these guys like let's go you. can do it but then I know that we have. we have dinosaurs who just can't let go. of yester Year's War um I. mean yeah and I'll hit the I hit the. dudes up like yo how did your training. block go I we spent four weeks doing you. know Mobility with M wraps the AR big. armored vehicles right what you guys are. still spending four weeks doing that in.

in your in your in your workup why those. were useful in Iraq but we haven't been. there for a while and I'm pretty sure. we're not driving those in Beijing next. week or anything so why are we spending. time doing that when we could be doing. drone Warfare as a block as a as a. common block of training I don't know. okay I mean 2018 National defense. strategy shifted us to great power. competition. 2018 and this guy's a new team guy just. finishing his first platoon was still. doing an MRA training block okay guys um.

we have to evolve faster than that. that's a problem that it took that long. now I did hear recently fairly they. finally just cut it out but but that's a. problem man it should not take from 2018. to 2025 for us to fix that yeah yeah we. got to evolve. faster what were you what were you. interviewing with Heth. about yeah um that's a funny one. I we hadn't won our fight yet we're. still in the middle of it and uh the.

week before Thanksgiving week I get a. text uh from cash and he said hey check. your email so check my email and it says. hey you know can you be in West Palm. Beach you know within the next 36 hours. for. interviews uh it said you have quote. been nominated for and are being. considered for a senior position in this. Administration I was like well that's. interesting um yes I can be there so I. flew out uh caught a flight the last. minute went down there and I interviewed. with now secretary heg Seth and director.

gabard uh dni um both of which you've. had here on the show actually um so yeah. a couple days of interviews with them. and their staffs um and it went really. well we talked about a lot of the things. that you and I have just talked about. here today and my observations. that um even these good Admirals out. there even these good generals these. great leaders are. institutionalized and so it's not lost. on me that in the last Trump. Administration he put a lot of three and.

fourstar retired generals and Admirals. in positions of of politically appointed. positions and yet he meant institutional. resistance even though they were great. leaders um great leaders in the military. but he met institutional resistance. because they're. institutionalists if you notice in this. Administration there's not a lot of. three and fourstar retirees that he's. nominating uh it's a lot of lower. ranking 05 and belows um who did a. little bit of time in the military. enough to gain a perspective of it but. not enough time to we they're. institutionalized I said I've noticed. that too and it's what I've noticed.

through my case um so I talked about all. the change that's needed and I told them. if you want change I'm happy to be a. change agent for you I've seen a lot of. things that need to be fixed need to be. overhauled and I'm happy to run fast in. that direction and I would be very. honored and happy to continue to fulfill. my oath to the Constitution wearing a. suit instead of a uniform but I see the. need to wear a suit instead of uniform I. see the need now to have civilian. oversight that's going to mandate change. for the good uh and like we've talked.

about in our case I see the need for. congressional oversight. because even the good meaning ones are. institutionalized and they won't always. do the right thing uh so that that's. what it was all about I don't yet know. what they're going to do with me if. anything uh I keep hearing my name. circulated up there for some positions. but I know some of the positions I was. being considered for have already been. nominated for so we really don't know. now uh if I'm still on the running for. anything uh but it makes it tricky. because I'm still active duty trying to. retire as well and I understand that's a.

that's a. complexity what what are some of the. things you would immediately go after. and try to. change I think. um you know in in the civilian courts. it's very important our legal framework. of innocent until proven. guilty I think that has been bastardized. in the military over time not any one. person's fault just over time like we've. talked about and you're very much. treated guilty until proven innocent and.

that's crushed a lot of people's Souls. um or you're even uh Innocent but find. yourself being abused by this system. there's a very there's a human cost. associated with this stuff um walk to. talk Foundation just put out a published. uh document of their day I don't know if. they published it but we've talked about. it that of active duty suicides out. there 29% of them are related to uh UCMJ. or administrative investigations like. the one we went through wow 29% I can't.

remember the actual numbers of what that. represents but it's. thousands um and I see that and I felt. it um. it's it's the it's the it's the. double-edged sword that is the SEAL. Teams in a lot of. ways uh you know for for for so many. years your value is defined by. does the team value you you know are you. under the boat with them are you. carrying your your your your your weight.

and are you choosing to carry more on a. daily basis and the long and that's. great because that produces things that. that uh it's why they make movies and. books about this stuff because it just. produces these Supernatural units that. go do things as a team that you could. never do. individually it it catalyzes teamwork. and it's amazing what you can do with. that um the double-edged sword part of. it is over time in the longer you do. that your selfworth my. selfworth got wrapped into that and so.

when I get wrapped into now an. investigation based upon like we've. talked about all the lies it doesn't. matter you're ostracized to some degree. and you. feel uh like you're no longer valued by. the team anymore and that can shatter. your self. worth um which is I think what. attributes to these suicides we did a. suicide standown um about a year ago. and our prevention specialist said. statistically the highest number of. suicide ideations in our Force come from.

people under investigation whether. you're innocent or guilty doesn't matter. just the the simple part of being under. investigation uh and those leaving the. teams and I was like oh yeah I. understand that and then they start. showing all the the psychological. reasons why all the things that these. things produce and like we've talked. about if we're disproportionately. punishing people or putting them under. this kind of scrutiny for no reason. um man 29% of. suicides uh my father-in-law quotes this.

old uh political satire cartoon Pogo he. says we have met the enemy and he is. us we should really care about that I. didn't go this in depth with with. secretary Heth and uh director gabard. but that whole system needs to be. overhauled because if if if we have a. suicide epidemic which we do we already. have problems with this why are we. contributing to that by allowing a. process to be involved that. disproportionately punishes. people it's horrific um it's.

horrific and I've heard it from them. I've seen it I've seen it in their eyes. uh and we lived it we lived it. um we talked about. uh some of the things the suffering we. endured through our career we hit on. this journey this three-year Journey we. hit three three really dark m. moments um the first one was was fear. fear-based and it was when when they.

released this investigation um to the. Press without having having let me even. see it and uh and rebut it in any way. and I saw that frenzy as as everyone was. frothing at the mouth and and it was. just uh horrible to watch and we were we. were actually scheduled to go and leave. the next day so I went to the airport. with my family and and you know my mind. just in a million. places and as we're checking in all of. our. luggage um I had that moment you know. they take too long sometimes and you're. just trying to figure it out and so. you're just sitting there with nothing.

to do it was the first moment I had. nothing to do and I closed my eyes and. it was almost like I'd been running in. front of a wave and the wave just like. collapsed into the back of me and it's. the closest I've ever come to a. full-blown panic attack and I'm I'm. pretty sure I was having a panic attack. hard starts racing it was all fear-based. I'm thinking in my mind like I got a kid. about to go to college I got another one. about to go to college this is all I've. ever known uh. what you know what am I going to do like. what am I going to do this is all I've. known my mom signed a waiver at 17 years.

old to join the Navy because I wasn't a. legal adult yet this has been my entire. adult life that I've invested in this. job and in this Mission and this sense. of service and it's being I can see it's. it's the dream is being killed right in. front of my eyes what am I going to do. and I was so afraid I closed my eyes and. just I was like oh and I prayed and I'm. like Lord I'm so afraid right now like I. don't even know I don't even know what. I'm gonna do I need your help I need you. to help me. now and in that.

moment it was really it was really cool. uh in my mind's eye I saw myself it was. really it interesting I saw myself um on. a desert road and it felt very much uh. like many of the places we've deployed. to um with mountains on either side and. just winding nice flat path and I looked. over to the right uh all in my mind's. eye and I see Jesus standing at a. Crossroads on a smaller path that's. going up the the mountain side a very. treacherous path lot lots of rocks I. mean unpleasant but he's looking back I.

mean he's holding on his hand and he's. got a smirk on his face and I heard in. my mind him say it's okay I'm going to. walk with you and I'm going to show you. each step and I'll be with you the whole. time and so I reached out and took his. hand and I'm back in the airport now. again this is all my mindset I don't. want to make it sound like I don't make. it sound like you know it's like a full. up Vision uh but it happened and I've. never felt I talked about the lucid. dream last time it was very similar to. that um and I'm back and I was like whoa. and all of the sudden we're checking the.

luggage I go sit down on the airplane. again I stopped and I start thinking. through I'm like did that happen and I. start crying uh cuz I couldn't even. control my emotions and my wife looks. over freaks out like what do you you. know what's wrong with you you're crying. on the airplane and I couldn't even. speak it because it was so overwheling I. had the. texture and so he he answered my prayer. and he showed me don't be afraid I've. got you so that was the first part what. this produced fear um the second part. failure and in many ways uh I think.

that's what many men fear is is failure. our failure to provide our failure to to. succeed I felt that through all the. criticism for sure but it manifested. most as a dad in the middle of all this. um obviously we were stressed obviously. we had hard moments I was impatient at. times um and I mentioned the last one. that uh my youngest son developed some. sort of a brain injury. where um basically his his bloodb brain.

barrier got compromised and so when he. gets sick his his the antibodies from. the sickness that his body is producing. jump over into his um I think the basil. ganglia part of his brain and it's like. fireworks going off in his brain and it. produces irrational just uh spirals. where it was it was it was horrific to. see as a dad and it was like 24 hours. one he would for instance um brush his. mouth accidentally and then freak out. because there was dirt on his hand there. wasn't but he he had imagined dirt and.

so he would now be so disgusted that. dirt was in his mouth he would start. gagging and spitting and he would just. spit all over himself and the floor. because he couldn't tolerate the dirt in. his mouth he was taking like five baths. a day it was really really weird and we. realized it was neurological but we were. really uh really trying to figure this. out and so uh I was as a typical dad and. man trying trying to ration my way. through it and so he's having a spiral. one night and I said hey buddy just talk. to me about it let's just talk through. this like we can we can talk through it.

and he's crying he's in an absolute irre. he's. irreconcilable and he said dad I it's a. nine-year-old he was eight at the time. Dad I don't want to tell you because. you're just going to get mad at me and. um I said. dude I love you I'm not going to get mad. at you let's talk through it so we start. talking through it uh I wasn't a to. solve it and so at some point I get. frustrated probably with myself not with. him and I. yelled and he starts crying and he said.

dad you broke your. promise oh man and um. dude uh every dad goes through this just. the feelings of failure. like I stood up I could barely hold it. together and I go to the garage and I. collapsed on the garage floor and just. wept and I couldn't pressed my face into. the payment far enough in submission to. God and I was just like enough like all. this other stuff we're dealing with and.

now this like enough please like take. this from me I can't do this I cannot do. this I don't have the strength I don't. have the knowledge I don't have the. wisdom as a dad um I can't do this like. please please. enough and um he answered that we. started getting answers got him on a. path to healing and but the best part. the best part I walk in afterward if I. collected myself he's already in bed Amy. took care of that gets him in bed and I.

walk in and uh and I knelt down and I. said Dude Dad's. sorry please forgive me uh cuz you were. right I I broke my promise without. skipping a beat it's okay Dad I love. you like no it's not okay but I. appreciate that. um I mean the beauty of a kid right I. think this is why Jesus says like.

uh the Kingdom of Heaven is meant for. for these and we should have childlike. Faith this idea this total idea that. he's so quick to forgive so quick to. love when it's not okay when I did fail. that was a huge lesson for me to learn. through this process as well is just I. am not capable as a man to deal with. these kinds of things the third and. final. one um as we were fighting all this. putting together documents with Jason. just I mean I'm talking we did put three. separate documents together that were. like Master's level thesis and just.

evidence upon evidence irrefutable and I. was so convinced that reason would. Prevail and and as I submitted these the. Navy and nsw would be like ah here's all. the evidence in the world you did it you. know dropping all charges total. Vindication facts matter um let's get. back to work I I was really convinced. that this was going to happen. and uh the morning I submitted them all. or the day I submitted them all it was. like yes it's this huge weight off my. shoulders so again back to I think um my.

selfworth and how I was defining that uh. that Friday morning I get an email from. our Admiral who would said I've reviewed. all the evidence I've still decided that. you meet the criteria to proceed with. this board of inquiry uh I still find. reason to believe you were negligent and. dar in your in your duties and it it um. that one crushed my soul more than. anything else. because back to my selfworth I had let. this become defined by what man thinks. of me what the teams think of me and and.

here we have an admiral who speaks on. behalf of our. community um like it or not he. represents us all and he's telling me. I'm not. worthy. um and so when you've built 25 years of. self-worth around that and that's taken. from you um it took me to some really. really dark. places and I was driving by myself. actually up to uh one of the foundations.

the C4 Foundation up in the mountains. near um near Julian so I was on the road. by myself just spiraling into some. Darkness. um it's a hard thing as a man when your. self worth gets taken from you um and I. reached out to a few friends you were. one of them uh you answered pulled me. back out a little bit. uh they say that in those darkest. moments uh you need about eight minutes. of someone's time and it helps you helps.

you get out of it and so I've encouraged. uh I've encouraged people. hey just in a text to somebody say I. need eight minutes of your. time and they'll know okay this is. serious we need to talk uh so so you you. called me and another friend called me. and it helped pull me out and it was. like okay. okay I don't know I can't explain that. um I don't think it came from within me. I think it was something. external and um but it came in my most.

vulnerable place. and I worked through that with God over. the weekend and uh it was so ashamed of. the Dark Places I had gone that it was. hard for me to even tell Amy I was so. ashamed and when I find they must have. the courage to I'm crying and and she. said I know she said I felt it and I was. worried and I was praying he said I'm. glad you got through that moment I said. yeah me too um me too and what I heard. God say in that moment he's like why did.

you give man this authority over. you um it's yours to give and take you. don't have to care what this person. thinks about you you don't have to care. what this community thinks about you you. gave that to them you can take that. right back and what I heard him say in. my mind was give it to me. I Define your worth I value you you are. worthy because I made you worthy I love.

you I have chosen you I have claimed you. I bought you with a price see yourself. through my eyes and I realized oh. man I had to get to that dark. moment to even see the chains that I had. forged around me to Define myself worth. by what man thinks of me I didn't even. know the existed I had no idea they were. there and they were the strongest things. I had to break over this whole threeyear. journey and so it was only until that.

moment when I could give that self worth. back to God that I was able to shatter. those chains and it was then that I was. truly free to actually start making the. decisions that landed us in your. studio uh last time because if I no. longer care what man thinks of me well. man offers me the world and the man and. man uses the world as leverage to. influence my decision in shape what they. want me and don't want me to do if I no. longer care about what man thinks of me. well now I'm free to make these. decisions based upon what I believe in.

truth. principles you wrote the other day on. social media we talked about it earlier. uh I I'll mess it up but paraphrase I. think you said something of the effect. of nobody ever regrets standing up for. truth they only regret the moments they. didn't yeah but you're not free to do it. until you don't care what man thinks of. you because they'll use the world as. Leverage. so I say all that because I know that. there's people out there that have been. going through the same things we went. through and they need to hear that it.

happened to all of us and it's okay and. there's hope. um and we need to fix these processes. that put people through this because it. is unjust and it is disproportionate to. anything they might have done wrong I I. do. believe yeah all of this and supposedly. a non-punitive system non-punitive. system right and he's not obviously I've. had tons of clients like this he's not. the first to feel the way he's feeling. this is what the military will do to you.

um you sign your life to that check. right and then they tell you we can we. need to rip up that check right it takes. months to get clients to where I'm not. worried about their safety. anymore I think that's why you called as. you knew you've seen this before yeah. and I've since had friends go through. this stuff and I call them like hey man. how are you today how are you right now. not good bro I understand keep your head.

up stay in the fight this two Shall. Pass um I tell them all now like I had a. guy call me the other day uh he like I. love how you guys dealt with this you. know I'm going through something similar. how do I deal with it I'm like bro get. in the Bible I mean get in there um. there's Refuge I love John Piper um he's. one of our modern day theologians but he. said uh cry out to God then ransack the. Bible for his appointed. promise we are fragile he is.

not and I found such strength in that. submission to him and just like yes okay. Lord take this from me I know you're. doing something I don't understand it. but I know you're doing something and. you are good so I'm going to choose to. trust you I'm choose to carry on I'm. going to choose to remain steadfast and. we're going to get up one more day and. we're gonna we're going to keep fighting. this fight. one dude uh. recently probably gave me the best. compliment I've ever received um and I'm. so tempted to take it but I can't but he.

is on social media he like you have more. testicular fortitude than any other man. I've ever met I mean like it's like the. best thing you could ever hear is a dude. right it's awesome it's so awesome and I. so am tempted to be like yeah bro you. know like and and people have said. similar things like we just can't. believe how strong you were through this. and it's like no you're missing it. you're missing it man I don't have to. particular fortitude if you compliment. me I've got to just point you right to. Jesus I've got to do it because anything. else is me claiming that I was strong.

through this you may have seen moments. of strength those came between moments. of absolute despair absolute weakness. absolute just Brokenness and I just kept. submitting to the Lord and trusting that. he was taking us somewhere special um. like we talked about to a season that. would be producing more fruit and he. carried me through that so if you saw. strength you saw his strength through me. it was not my strength Paul talks about. this in the New Testament when we are. weak his strength is manifested through. us and that's glor glorifying to God uh.

so so when we are weak that's when we're. actually strong because when we lean on. him and his strength manifests it's a. powerful message I hope they hear it I. hope they hear it um there's solidarity. in it and I think it's important for. them to hear and I struggled with how. much to tell on that part of the story. but I think it's important um for them. to know that that that yeah man there's. other people have gone through this we. can get through it together call me. reach out to me and or let's make. changes let let's fix this let's stop.

this from happening to our teammates. let's stop contributing to the suicide. epidemic by. 29% um there's a better way to do. business that takes better care of our. teammates last. thing when do you guys expect to hear. when do when do you think this is going. to be done when are you going to be able. to retire so and move on with your. career as a voice actor I think. uh.

yeah dude it's so funny you said that. um I was never I never really thought. much about my voice uh but seeing all. the comments from the last episode about. my dgam Batman Batman voice apparently. and now I got a head cold so I don't. know how this going to turn out thought. about play voice yeah come. on well my old uh my old CEO guy I loved. I mentioned him last one whenever I. tolds stories I would drop into an. octave and I didn't know I did it but he. used to call it the maralo man voice.

he's like did you just smoke a pack of. cigarettes before the story like what. happened like I don't know just I don't. know it just happened over the years but. um so yeah next career who knows uh. hopefully I'm retired by the summer uh. one June one July time frame is what. we've been aiming for assuming uh we can. we can figure this out with the Navy and. just just let me leave guys let me leave. um um that's the hope and then we'll see. what's next you know whether this. Administration decides to pick me up for. a job great I've told them I'd be happy. to serve as long as I'm a change agent.

and able to actually run in the. directions that we need to run in and. and make the changes that'll protect our. teammates and if not it's fine give me a. call I'll consult with you for free I. will tell you about all the things we. saw and What needs to change and what. needs to be fixed and I know they have. already have smart people doing these. things also which is good they weren't. hearing this just from me they heard it. from a lot of sources and so we're. seeing that start to manifest now which. is very exciting so I'm comfortable and. confident that all the right Chang is. going to happen uh very very soon here. and it's already starting um so yeah.

hopefully by this summer this season's. behind us officially man I hope so yeah. I hope the know bro yeah um thank you. appreciate that um part of that change. we were just brainstorming one day about. like man one of the things they that. that prohibits you from doing these. things is we talked about the the the. cost the financial piece mhm uh people. have been like oh he was an officer he. was able to pay for this no dude we're. up to about $200 something, in legal. fees in totality for 3 years we couldn't.

afford that um and one of the things the. military prohibits you from doing is. fundraising uh for yourself for these. types of things so so it's like they. they pit you up as a David versus. Goliath scenario but then they deny you. access to the stones to even fight um we. got to fix that problem too if if. someone's allowed to be provided. civilian Council which they need because. you need a mediator attorney and in my. case a team of mediator attorneys like. we said between you Davis um uh Mark. Jessup and and um Tim parlor who all.

still we still collaborate we had a. whole thread called team. Truth uh if that's what you need well. then we need to be able to allow that. person to solicit funds for that and so. one of the reasons we started talking. about this was we had to search through. nonprofits to get there we talked about. the cash Foundation we're still with st. withth Warriors Davis yis was here last. time represented by them but but he he. thought of the idea of we should just. start our own. 501c3 because what we found is even. family members and these people out. there want to help people like us but.

they also want it to be a tax deductible. uh thing where they can get um uh. benefits from that and it makes it. easier for them to to throw money at. that and so on a whim he's like well I I. just start a. 501c3 so if your parents want to help or. or friends of the family that ask want. to help uh they can just go through that. and it saves them some tax uh uh burdens. so we're in the process of starting that. that Amy's going to be a board member oh. that's cool yeah very cool it's called. the civilian military defense fund yeah. the civilian military defense fund yeah.

and it's uh it's organized in Colorado. right now we're going through the. fundraising registration at the state. level and then we'll submit for 501c3. status but it's specific purpose and and. the board's amazing I've been honored by. those who have chosen to serve on the. board it's a mix of Civilian high level. civilian attorneys high level criminal. defense attorneys uh mil some military. Justice attorneys as well a public. defender out of Washington state like. people people see the problem and they. want to help and we want to do things we.

want to be able to give all service. members uh access to civilian Council. because you know in this case c g wasn't. eligible for military counsel until uh. Admiral Cheesman served him the notice. that's 2 years after this process. started all of that is out of pocket. right and and on top of it judge. Advocates are restricted from filing in. federal court so around this. administrative issue needing to seek. injunctive relief if they get really out. of whack they have no access to that.

it's civilian lawyers with with like. that civil experience especially that. that can bring these kind of uh weapons. to bear and military have no access to. that and in fact I want to inspire big. law civilian lawyers who haven't even. been judge Advocates I want to inspire. their level of litigation to be brought. to the military because I think that's. the only way within that system that. we're going to elevate our treatment of. personnel and Elevate the D process is.

by bringing these these inordinate. experienced civilian litigators in to to. fight the fight but we need to be able. to pay them you know these guys are. expensive for a reason right and we need. to be able to pay them or we need to be. able to get experts when the when the. military justice system refuses you an. expert we need to be able and finally I. added a third prong as we talked about. it we've got to find a way to support. people in this military Justice process. from going to the Dark Places the.

military is not taking care of their own. for the minute an allegation is levied. you're on the outside and you're done. right and we talk a big game about. suicide prevention in the military we do. a lot of that but we need to find ways. where people can call and talk to. somebody for those 8 minutes that. understands the system the problem have. been through it themselves and so you. know through this we're like you know. what let's do it we're we're good at. operational management this is the best.

leader I've ever known we're going to. create the civilian military defense. fund and we're going to push that's. awesome man that's awesome when do you. think that'll be ready to roll uh I. expect the Colorado registration to be. back in about 8 days that will open. donations um it just won't be deductible. until we get the 501c3 certification but. and I'm no tax professional my. understanding is it will be. retroactively deductible so we are going. to start accepting donations check with. your tax providers um you know ahead of.

the 501c3 process because that does take. a while but my understanding is we have. a 27mon window to get that done and I. will get it done perfect. well thanks again for coming on and um. man I I just. uh I know you're going to get through. this but uh I just it's just. it's enraging you know what the US. Navy's doing and and um Admiral. Cheeseman she been Junior yeah it's.

just it makes no sense. but I know you guys will get through it. and um you know hopefully one day we'll. see some repercussions for this kind of. [ __ ] but and protections you know. and I hope protections I hope uh I hope. You' stick it out for the change to come. you know it's I I was teaching this. class and I I keep reinforcing these. young dudes like stick this out the. teams are a great place and we need you.

to stick it out we need you to make it. better we need you to take the Baton for. my generation and start innovating and. start pivoting fast to to keep the pace. with the changes of War um if I had any. message for them it was it would be. these are your teams your generation has. it uh we did our duty now it's your turn. to do yours so so make us proud I trust. they will from what I saw coming up to. the ranks sounds like it they they're. going to make us proud so so that's my.

message to them uh these are your teams. own it you own the culture you own where. we're going in the future to my peers. and up get out of their way Empower them. give them autonomy let's give them. authorities and let them innovate and. run because uh we're falling behind if. we don't great message and um and on. another note I hope you do get picked up. by this Administration thanks I can't. think of anybody better frankly to be in. this Administration to get some [ __ ]. done yeah happy to help if they if they.

want it um it' be fun thank you my. pleasure all right good thank you do. [Music]. again no matter where you're watching. Sean Ryan show from if you get anything. out of this please like comment. subscribe and most importantly share. this everywhere you possibly can and if.

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