Brian Keating - The Alien Disclosure Nothingburger | SRS #316

[music]. >> Brian Keating, welcome to the show, man. >> It's great pleasure to be here, Sean. Been Been a while. I've been hoping to. come. >> Couple years in the making, right? >> But uh yeah, we were talking out there. I think I. think I've been tracking you for like 2. or 3 years and. you finally made it. >> Yeah, it's kind of scary to hear that. Sean Ryan's been tracking you, but. >> [laughter]. >> I'll take that, my friend. >> Oh, man. But uh yeah, lots of [ __ ] going.

on right now. Lot of stuff going on right now. What do. you think about all this alien stuff? >> You know, it's it's either the most. exciting time to be alive or it's going. to be the most depressing time to be. [laughter] alive. You know, it's like uh. imagine you keep asking a girl out. She. says, "Yeah, soon. Soon I'll I'll. disclose my intentions to you." And you. know, you're just kind of waiting in the. wings and you keep hearing things are. going to happen. It's going to come out. Finally, we're going to know the truth. Um and the whole community is thinking. about things and is excited about.

things. And then, I'm sorry to say, I've. just been completely underwhelmed. This. this last release. by President Trump and Department of War. Pete Hexe. I I tore through that like a kid on, you. know, Christmas morning or. as soon as it came out. I'm just. >> What did you find? >> I I found, you know, really it's a a. nice round number. I found like zero. I. found zero that really interested me. And worse than that, I found things that. were, you know, your background you're used to dealing. with kind of like sci-ops and and a good.

friend my my friend Chad Hashi. He was. He was in the sci-ops. He was in US. Army, served in Iraq. You know, they have exposure to things, right? They're going to They're going to. prime you for certain things. I call. these sci-ops, s c i o p s. Cuz it sounds so outlandish, so so. outrageous. It it titillates the mind, especially if you're a nerd like me. I. want to know about extra dimension extra. dimensional beings. I want to know about. non-humanoid biologics. I want to and. and all I get to hear from people I.

respect, some people I've talked to, you. know, I I like to say I've got the. square root of your podcast kind of. size, but I talked to the a lot of the. same people that you've had the. opportunity and the honor to talk to. And it's always, you know, comes down to. like, "Trust me, bro." Or I heard or. somebody said this and I can't say that. And in the military, I completely. understand it. I understand you've seen. things, you've done things, you're not. going to be able to talk about things. You're a scientist and and and you go on. a show. um like my friend, you know, Steven. Bartlett's show and and you get 10. million views in one night and say,

"Well, I heard from somebody who heard. from somebody." And you're a physicist. like this the you know, people that have. come on recently on his show. Um it it. frustrates me because that's not the way. science works. >> Do you think this is all a distraction? >> Um. >> I mean, every time every time there's a. big. release or hearing, it it just to me. it just winds up being a big another. [ __ ] nothingburger. >> Yeah. I mean, have you have you heard. anything that would make you I mean, these are supposed to be some of the. most consequential discoveries of all.

time, right? Things that could question. and have caused people literally, Shawn, to be burned at the stake. Okay? 1600, Giordano Bruno, it was a it was a preach. priest in the Catholic Church in Italy. He proclaimed that every star you see in. the heavens has a planet around it. They said, "Very nice, you know, what. what what temperature do you want to be. cooked to?" You know, they burned him at. the stake. Because it was so threatening, which. meant it was threatening to the most. powerful authority on Earth at the time, which was the Catholic Church, the. Vatican.

And that was like the you know, United. States on steroids. Like literally would. just kill it. No other power was. comparable. And he went against them. Why? Because it was threatening to them. Why is it something threatening to you? Do you care when your kid says, "Oh. Daddy, you don't you look ugly today.". or some hater on the internet says. something? You don't give a crap about. it. But when somebody says something. important and it challenges your. worldview, Like that's that's significant. So. allegedly these things could have the. most consequential impact on humanity. Has your life changed? Have you. questioned your belief in God? Have you.

thought maybe, you know, there's there's. something to these aliens and and maybe. it could be incompatible with my. religion, my faith in Jesus Christ, or. whatever. No. I mean, I assume no. >> I used to think there was something to. this alien [ __ ]. I really did. Now I don't. >> You know, >> I just don't. You know, I've interviewed. so many people about this. And I'm not talking about.

Avi Loeb or but [clears throat] um. You know, the thing is is well one thing. that one red flag to me is you got all. these all these people out there that. are screaming disclosure, we want. disclosure, they're demanding it. But none of them are really working. together. >> That's right. >> You know, and so, you know, behind. closed doors, off camera, they're all. talking [ __ ] about each other. Exactly. It's like it's like, oh, you want. disclosure, but only if you're the.

[ __ ] one to disclose it, right? You. don't want to work with anybody else and. actually, you know, figure this out. You. just you want to be the guy. That's what. it is. And um. Yeah, it's so that's like one thing. Another thing is I find the timing very. odd of the release of all this [ __ ] I. mean, it the you know, the the latest batch of the. alien conspiracy thing is, you know, it. stopped right at the height of the. Epstein stuff and.

the Iran war. Whether you're. for or against it, whatever, it's very. unpopular. You know what I mean? And and. so it's like. give them aliens. You know what I mean? That's what That's what I think about it. now. I'm just like, this [ __ ]. [ __ ] Of course you drop it right. now. >> Exactly. >> And so it's I think the timing alone is. discrediting. >> So, you know, in the ancient Roman times. you had on Jeremy Ryan's slate as a. friend of mine not too long ago. Uh you know, he talked about ancient.

Rome and and what they used to do and. how they keep the masses entertained. when there's no Netflix. They had bread. and circus. I call this bread and. saucers. This is what they're doing. >> Mhm. >> There's a lot of distraction. Why is it. distracting though? That's what. interests me. It's a metacognitive. thing. To me, it's interesting because. it taps into something primal in the. human spirit, which is beautiful by the. way, that people care about the. possibility of extra extra-dimensional, extraterrestrial, not only life. Like, if I told you tomorrow we discovered. some slime mold on, you know, the the.

moon of Saturn Titan, you'd be like, "Holy crap, that's cool." But if I told. you there's dolphins swimming around on. the ocean, you'd say, "That's even. cooler, right?" Then if I said there's. there's freaking dolphins with with. opposable thumbs and they're using. iPhone, you'd be like, "Holy freaking. crap." You know, right? So, it's just. it's this hierarchy of insane, interesting, most fascinating stuff and. it is child abuse or or, you know, humanity's curiosity abuse. When you. start saying something is so weighty, so.

important, so significant, not just to. like, you know, your worldview, your. religion, your belief in God, all these. things, and you start like rug-pulling. it. >> Mhm. >> I I think that's I think it's not only, you know, kind of. not not not nice to do to people. I. think it's morally objectionable. If you. keep teasing this and just wait till you. see it. And by the way, it's not just. scientists, it's not just. the military, it's people in Congress, it's people in power. And it's.

frustrating to me because they'll often. be something, you know, they'll say. things like, you know, "We want someone, you know, these things that we see defy. the laws of physics." Okay. Well, like, I'm a physicist, Avi Loeb is a. physicist, you know, show us the data. Avi doesn't believe that we're being. visited right now. He does believe that. there have been extraterrestrial. technology potential for them to have. visited us for via this Oumuamua, this. recent, you know, 3I Atlas. And we can. debate the scientific methods all all. you want. Um and and there's a lot of. objections in science because guess.

what? That's what scientists do. Scientists will say, "Oh, you found a. good discovery. That was great, Sean. You know, one good for you." We're not. like, you know, the teams or whatever. like, "Oh, you take somebody this, I'll. I'll take something." We don't have. roles like that. We're we're all kind of. doing battle against an enemy that has. infinite resources called Mother Nature. And she doesn't give up her secret. The. only thing that we have on our side, Sean, is that she's always in retreat. We're making incredible progress, exciting progress, despite what. doomsayers say, despite what people may. say about it. And we almost don't need.

the aliens. Like we almost don't need it. for the sense that science is so. incredibly interesting, so provocative, so helpful, so useful. But we've come to. believe that with science you get. technology. And I kind of say that's the. problem. You know, the problem with. science is that sometimes it makes. technology. And so you come to expect it. as a general public. Well, what good is. this? Why should we spend this money. here? Why should we do this? Why should. we do that? And we should we have poor. people here in Tennessee or wherever, right? We should be doing something for. them. It's not a zero-sum game. In fact, it's.

it's a losing battle. We know we're. going to lose against Mother Nature. But. don't make it worse. Don't put up false. flags. Don't try to do the sciops. SCIops. And and let us have access to. it. The the universe, Avi Loeb loves to. say, "The sky's not classified." I say, "Physics is not classified.". >> Love that. You familiar with Polymarket? >> Yeah, of course. >> Polymarket only gives a 14% chance that. the US will confirm that aliens exist. before 2027. Did you see the post that.

Trump did. >> Yes. >> the other day with a. with the alien Did anybody What is that? >> Um you know, he's he's a he's a master. manipulator. He's a master and and I you. know, I support what President Trump. does in in many ways, which makes me you. know, kind of a unicorn in academia. But. you know, does that mean he does everything right? Does that mean like you know, I couldn't. ever consider not voting for him? Do I. do I think that he does things sometimes. in a in a callous and a cruel you know, of course look, I I people always say to me as a.

sidebar. I'm sorry to go on a tangent so. early in the conversation, but but they. say like would you want your kids to be. like President Trump? Isn't he like oh I. have all these problems. I'm like. no, you know who I want my kid to be. like? You know, I try to live a life for. my sons to be like me. I try to live a. life but not be copies of me. I want. them to be who they are actualize their. full potential that God has given them. But I don't want them to be me. I don't. want them to be a politician. I don't. want them to be an Instagram influence. I don't want them to be you. I want them. I want to be the influence on my kid, not the president. I never look oh John.

F. Kennedy. I really want my kids to go. you know, all these I don't say that. [clears throat] either. I don't say you. know, I want my kid to be like Stephen. Hawking. No, I don't nobody. I want them. to be. >> Exactly. They're your ticket to the. afterlife in in reality, spirituality, and ideologically. I think that's what. other gift could you have? And by the. way, I'd like to say for people that. don't have kids, a lot of my friends. don't have kids, I'm sure, you know, the. same number of people, you don't have to have kids yourself. A, you can adopt. B, you can you can be a. mentor. You know, it's a shame the.

Catholic Church and Michael Jackson have. given like real bad name to like men. mentoring younger younger kids. I think. that's I think it's a tragedy because I. think what we need is more biological. fathers and more ideological fathers. And you you you can be both, but you. don't have to be both. >> Mhm. Mhm. Let's get back to aliens real. quick. So, Polymarket gives a 14% chance that. the US government confirms alien life or. technology this year. $38 million in real money has traded on.

this. You've built telescopes at the. South Pole looking for signals from the. beginning of the universe. As a. physicist, what do those odds tell you? >> So, one of the places I built a. telescope is at the South Pole, Antarctica. And I think that means I've. been on a Navy base that you haven't. been on. The South Pole is the only. >> [laughter]. >> and I've probably been on a plane, you. know, put in my The only ways I can, you. know, say that I've done something Sean.

Sean Ryan hasn't I've been I might have. been on a plane you've never been on in. the military, an LC-130 cargo plane. It's a ski-equipped cargo plane. The US. doesn't export it. It's like the F-22 or. something. >> Never even seen one. >> It's a giant It's the world's biggest. ski plane. It is the coolest thing. It's. a C-130. >> Dude, you went to Antarctica? >> Been there twice. I spent months of my a month of my. >> What's going on down there? >> So, Antarctica is one of the most. fascinating, otherworldly, just like extraterrestrial kind of. planet filled with some of the most.

hard-charging people outside of the. military that you probably ever want to. meet. People It's over subscribed. So, it's harder to get to the South Pole to. work there as a cook than it is to get. into Harvard University. There's so many. people that want to work there, to be. there. They love the isolation. They. love the desolation. It's like the movie. Star Wars with the ice planet Hoth. covered over, frozen over in snow. >> Isolation, desolation. Sounds like my. dream place. >> [snorts]. >> For me, it's a nightmare. Yeah, for you, it's great. I I love.

I love getting there. I love having been. there. I hate being there. >> You love getting there? What's that, like a 25-hour plane ride? [laughter]. >> It takes 7 days. Yeah, from San Diego. It's crazy. It's crazy. And or you can. take two two and a half weeks by boat. across the world Southern Ocean, which. is the most dangerous and and kind of. violent sea. I. I get seasick, you know, so like I I go. on a stand-up paddle board, I get. seasick. So, you know, I'm not taking. the boat ride. But so you get there, you. go from San Diego, fly to LAX, you fly.

from LAX to either Australia or to the. North Island of New Zealand, to. Auckland, New Zealand. And that takes, you know, 14 hours, whatever flight. Then you get there, then you have to take another flight to. get from there to Christchurch, New. Zealand, so on the South Island of New. Zealand. New Zealand is like is where. they filmed The Lord of the Rings. It's. the most It's like Switzerland plus the. tropics. It's an incredible, beautiful. place. And uh and then you get there, and the. US has carved out an an army base, a. naval base, and a provisioning center.

from this place called Christchurch. And. the reason that they are there is it's. where the historic. explorers, like Roald Amundsen, who was. the first man to reach the South Pole, and Robert Scott, who was a British. team, they were in a race. every bit as competitive as the Cold War. space race to get to the moon first. This battle in 1911 and 1912 was every. [clears throat] bit as intense. geopolitically, national pride, scientifically. It was the last. continent. No one had ever seen. Antarctica. You know when Antarctica was.

discovered? Antarctica was discovered. after the planet Uranus was discovered. They found a freaking planet before we. went to the world's seventh continent. It's a continent. >> Wow, I did not know that. >> Yeah, it's an actual continent, which. means, unlike the North Pole, if you go. to the North Pole, you've seen that. where the submarines go up through. there. There's no land at the North. Pole. If you go to the South Pole, you. dig down through 9,500 ft of ice, you. hit rock. That means it's a continent. So, it's it's one of Earth's seven. continents. It has a population right. now, as we're speaking, it's winter in.

Antarctica, or it's starting to be, you. know, the fall. It's going into winter. there as we, you know, kind of are in. spring going into summer in the Northern. Hemisphere. Uh there's only about 800. people on the whole continent. >> Wow. So, once again, this sounds like my. dream place. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, you got a you got a a 200-mi. shooting range you can go out to. >> That means everybody there has to have a. specific job and has to be very [ __ ]. good at it. There's no slackers. >> right. That's why I like. >> there's no slackers. >> you you can't get First of all, you need. a psychological exam if you're going to.

be there. You can't because there's no. doctors there, there's no dentist there. You if you have even a 1% chance that. you're going to need your molars removed. before you go to Antarctica, they force. you to pull them out. Okay? Because. there's no dentist there. Can you. imagine the horrific pain that you could. possibly have if you were at the South. Pole, no doctors, no dentist, no x-rays, nothing that can possibly save your. life, and you get a toothache. So, they. have to And it costs hundreds of. thousands of dollars for each person to. get down there. So, the US takes it very. seriously. Um we go down in these ski-equipped.

cargo planes. Um we leave from. Christchurch on a C-17 if you're lucky. Um if you're unlucky, you get a you get. a C-130 again, which is half the speed. And um and they can only get provisions. in or out of there about 3 months of the. year. So, this the station opens up in. November, which is the beginning of. their spring going into their summer. time. Uh and then it ends in February. 15th. And if Sean, if you're not out by. Oops, sorry. If you're not out by. February 15th, you're there until. November. You're not going anywhere. So,

it's an incredible environment. And it's dark, by the way, it's dark, pitch black, 3 months of the year. >> I've been thinking a lot about this. lately. We track everything in our. lives, our workouts, our sleep, our. business metrics. When it comes to our. actual health, most of us are just. guessing. And that never really made. sense to me. And I think we've all had. that experience where you go in, get. checked out, and leave without any real.

clarity, no real breakdown of what's. going on, or what to actually do next. That's why I'm really interested in what. Superpower is doing. It's one simple set. of lab tests, but you're getting data on. over 100 biomarkers. So, now you can. actually understand what's going on with. your body from hormones to metabolism to. vitamin levels and more. And for me, that's the biggest thing. I'm always. wondering, what should I be doing? What.

supplements make sense? How to adjust my. diet? How to optimize performance? And. instead of guessing, Superpower gives. you a real plan based on your data. It also tracks everything over time, so. you can see progress year after year and. not just start over every time. Make. this the year you stop guessing about. your health with Superpower. For a. limited time, our listeners get $20 off. to unlock their new health intelligence.

Head over to superpower.com. and use code SRS for $20 off your. membership. That's code SRS. And after. you sign up, they'll ask how you heard. about Superpower. Do me a favor, if you could, and tell. them the Shawn Ryan Show sent you to. support the show. >> What's security like? >> So, I actually had a friend. There is. one gun down there. It's not.

There is one gun down there. It's a .45. caliber. 1911. It's kept in a safe and there's a. station master who's sometimes a. scientist. I knew the station master who. was a scientist the year I was there. And they they have security because some. people have gone literally crazy there. As you might expect, right? Complete. isolation. You're not going anywhere. You know why? Plane can't land there. So, if if if a C-130 were to land there. in the middle of winter, it gets down to. -100°.

Fahrenheit. Okay? So, that's that's 200. that's 300°. below the boiling point of water. So, they actually have a sauna at the. South Pole that gets up to 212 almost. degrees. Fahrenheit. And then the coldest day of. the year is usually in July. They go. outside and they run around naked around. the South Pole. Looks like a barber. pole, just like you see in, you know, like Santa would have or whatever. It's. a barber pole that marks the geographic. axis on which the Earth is spinning. Okay? They run around, it's called the. 300 degree club. You run around every.

time zone. and you're running in negative delta. temperature of 300 degrees Fahrenheit. Okay, so if a plane were to land there, if an LC-130 were to land there, the. hydraulic fluid and JP8 freezes. at like -50 or something like that. So, what would happen is that all the fuel. lines would explode and you'd be you'd. have to the plane would be ruined. You. could not never use that plane again. So, they've never done they've done air. drops. There was a doctor there who got. stranded Dr. Jean Nelson and she was the.

onsite physician, but that's just for. like, you know, cuts and scrapes and. stuff like that. She diagnosed a lump. and she found that she had this lump in. her breast and they had a drop chemo. they found out diagnosed that she had. dropped a biopsy kit. She tested that. she had breast cancer stage two or. three. Then they dropped chemotherapy. So, they had parachutes at night in. pitch black from a C-17. She ended up. living a few more years after that. She. wrote a memoir about it. But it's the. most isolated place on Earth. Literally, there's just imagine a thousand people. in the entire continental US. Just.

imagine that. How how far you'd have to. go until you meet someone again. For. people like you, you probably. >> Sounds amazing. >> You just catch up on your reading. >> You see where we're at? We're out in the. woods. >> I know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, exactly. Sounds incredible. >> You get out there. >> Have you heard of these Have you heard. of these crafts that people think come. out of the water from within the Earth? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> you think about that? >> Well, I've seen some stuff from. this gentleman Lou Elizondo. I don't. know if you've had Lou on the podcast. >> Lou on. >> Yeah. So, he had this book came out a. couple years ago Imminent. I tried to.

have him on. Look, I I take a skeptical view. It's like when you were a kid, I I I'm Jewish but but I actually grew. up Catholic and it's a long story but. but you remember like when when. Christmas would come and you'd be so. excited like you just knew your mom was. going to your dad was going to get you. that racetrack or that RC truck or that. that 22 or whatever you're going to get. Like you just knew. And then the next. day shows up oh thanks mom a pair of. slacks. Like oh, you know that feeling. of being let down? You have it right? I've had it.

>> [clears throat]. >> I was just going to ask if you miss. Christmas maybe not at all. >> [laughter]. >> We have enough holidays as it is. Yeah, um. so so we we. we're in that same situation. We're promised disclosure. We're. promised this is going to be. groundbreaking. Literally yesterday. Congresswoman Luna. Burchett. a lot of people you've talked to a lot. of people you know. Um what's coming next? It's always. what's coming next. It reminds me of. like nuclear fusion. Nuclear fusion is.

said to be the power source of the. future Sean and it always will be. >> In other words, we're just not. converging on this stuff. Why do you. think we're not Oh man. >> We can go we can we can do 8 hours on. this if you want but but I'll tell you I. think there's a bunch of different. things. Um I don't actually think the. the Epstein file distraction from the. Iran war I don't think any of that is. really pertinent A because a lot of it. surfaced in 2017, you know, thanks to. Tom DeLonge and To The Stars Academy and.

and and people that. you might have interviewed. I I talked. to Tom DeLonge and Jim Semivan who's a. CIA operator at one point. Um and and. the challenge is you have all sorts of. extremely rich potential scientific. content in a very low information. environment in an extremely low trust. environment. In other words, when you. talk to people you've talked to Ryan. Graves of F-18 pilot okay. I I've talked. to him. I actually talked to him with. one of his wingmen who's a friend of. mine who's a naval.

veteran F-18 pilot just like Ryan. Um. and you talk about it. I would say most. of the stories that I've heard and even. people like David Grusch, you know, I. respect these people, but I have yet to. hear them say, "Here is the physical. evidence.". Sean, if these things They never go the. full distance. They never produce the. evidence. A lot of it is. >> biologicals. >> Yeah, no, no, no. >> Well, that could be a [ __ ] deer. carcass on the side of the road. >> Right. >> I'm I'm not [ __ ] around. I'm being. serious. >> 100% right. >> If you're going to go, why aren't we. going on the full distance? Like you're.

not a [ __ ] whistleblower. You're just. bringing up [ __ ]. >> I'm I'm going to eat something. Nothing. >> I can't say that, you know, cuz I don't. have the courage to join. I wanted to. join the military. I wanted to go into. the Air Force. My stepfather was a. fighter pilot in Vietnam and a KC-135. Stratotanker pilot. I wanted to do it, but, you know, discovered girls. I'm. like, "Ah, I don't know if I can handle. it." I don't I want to be an F-18 F-14. pilot cuz that's when Top Gun came out. when I was a kid. And then my stepfather. was like, "You know, you know, they say. everyone wants to be a cowboy, but no. one wants to ride the range." You know,

like being out on the boat like my. friend Ariel Cainerman or like Ryan. Graves. I Sorry, I just didn't have it. I wanted to study the stars. I wanted to. not you know, not miss that opportunity. That's kind of what I'm what I'm good. at. Um but on the other hand, this stuff is. so interesting and yet I keep hearing. things like you know, I heard from. somebody or you know, David Grusch, I I. can't you know, these are the. testimonies. I haven't seen them. Um. they do they're interdimensional beings. like Anna Congresswoman Luna. Um and I I. want to say it's a spirit.

>> It's a spirit. It's a god. That's why I. say I call these aliens of the gaps. It's a form of almost religious worship. Same is happening with AI by the way. You see this worship, this power, these. people involved. Look at the people. involved in AI, Sean. >> What do you mean worship in AI? What are. you talking about? >> Worship in AI is creating a god in our. image, okay? So just what God did with. us. God created us from dirt. Adam in. Hebrew it means earth. It means dirt. God carved us out of earth. Created We. can believe it literally. You can I I. don't I'm not here to proselytize. I'm. not going to say anything about anyone.

who believes literally or doesn't. believe literally. But the point is gods that we create in. our image, it's one of the oldest. stories of all time. Tower of Babel. What was the Tower of Babel? It wasn't. just like, oh, we're going to make this. tower and it was humans developed. technology. They created the first. composite building material with straw, with earth, with dirt. That's a. composite building material like rebar. and concrete, right? It's come out and. they said, "Hey, we have technology now. We don't need to go on top of a mountain.

that God made. We can build a tower. ourselves to go to the sky." Like a Twin. Towers. We can do this. We're so. powerful. We're so mighty, right? It's. an old tale that we can compete with. God. Why does the Bible, why does the. Torah, the Old Testament say they did. it? They wanted to fight with God. Why? Cuz God had restricted the knowledge. that human beings were capable of. having. Again, believe it or not. I. don't I really don't care if somebody. believes the Torah, the Bible, the Old. Testament, the New Testament. I don't. care. The point is these stories are eternal. They have something to teach us 3,000.

years ago. They can teach us stuff to. this very day. The story that people are. trying to do now is to create a god sort. of in our image, right? That will do. things to us supernatural, have. capabilities, all powerful capabilities, all knowing, the panopticon. Know what. you're doing. Know what People trust. Chat GPT more than they trust trust. their priest, rabbi, or minister. You. ask stuff to Chat GPT. you probably wouldn't tell your wife. I. I know I do sometimes. Like, why is my. wife mad at me? You know, like I'm not. going to ask her that. I know why she's. mad at me, right? So, the point is we're.

outsourcing that which is. ethereal, which is eternal. We're. outsourcing that to little bricks of. silicon and we're hoping, but we don't. really know about the dangers within. With aliens, what is happening with. aliens? That there's some external force. that's being suppressed that has the. power to transform the world. I agree. 100%. If this if everything they said. was going to be disclosed was disclosed, we would have to reconfront a new. reality. I mean, we would be in an.

environment that is so unstabilizing. It would make like the Catholic Church. burning Bruno alive and imprisoning. Galileo, all that thing it would look. like, you know, like when my toddler. goes into time out, okay? It'll be. almost we'll be so revolutionarily. displaced. The question is what, you. know, if we if we if that's real, if. these aliens exist and they have tech. technological capabilities to travel. light-years across the galaxy,

why is it that, you know, Congresswoman. Luna or or somebody else is capable of. either suppressing it or disclosing it? I mean, what. >> Yeah, I don't think I don't think I. mean, are they capable of that? >> Well, I'll ask you the question. >> Are they pretending? >> You're in the you were you. >> you talk about aliens and you're in. government, that's like an immediate PR boost. Yeah. Boom. You're front page of every paper, every podcast wants to talk to you, every news network wants to talk to you. It's it's a great PR stunt, right?

>> Yeah. >> I mean, this episode's going to do good. because we started it off talking about. aliens. I guarantee [ __ ] you. >> because of me, sh-. >> And because of. >> No, I'm joking. I'm joking. >> But but I'm I'm being serious. Like it. always hits. >> Yeah. >> It always hits. >> AI is another one. >> Nothing ever comes out. >> So, and there's an incentive to keep it. that way, right? Cuz if you do disclose, >> I think there's something to what you're. saying. I mean, I don't I'm I'm not. I'm not that interested in it anymore. because nothing ever come There's no. There's never any breaking [ __ ] that.

comes out that's real, you know, that. that that's. And there's nothing you can do about it. anyways. >> Well, you can use critical reasoning. >> What I think that that what I think. might be going on is they've seen, you. know, how much attention. the subject matter. demands, you know, when it's brought up. And so, it's become a tool, a useful. tool for the US government. >> That's right. No, I I I agree with you. I guess here's a question I've been. wanting to ask you. And and and. originally when I, you know, I I.

actually think I might have invited you. on my podcast at one point to do a like. a Veterans Day celebration. So, anyway, at some point, love for you to come on. When you come on, I'm going to give you. this Well, I'm going to give this to you. now because I brought it with me on the. plane. This is It's not a Nobel Prize, but it is called the Keating Prize. A. little bit arrogant, okay? It's for. impossible imagination, okay? And it's. got your name on the side of it. And. it's 3D printed. And there's a replica. of the monolith from the movie 2001: A. Space Odyssey. Cuz my podcast, Into the. Impossible, is named after Sir Arthur C.

Clarke, who wrote the book that 2001: A. Space Odyssey is based on. So, >> You're welcome. Yeah, thank you for all. you do. Um and we're going to play around with. some other stuff now, so keep that. handy. That We'll go with that later on. Um. >> [clears throat]. >> So, I want to turn, you know, with with. your. permission and and forbearance, I want. to ask you a question because I can't. ask the I've had As I said, military, I've had operators on. Um let me ask you a question. Uh some of the pilots who saw things, the Nimitz incident, the Tic Tac.

incident, Commander Fravor, Lieutenant. Commander Alex Dietrich, um they claim. they saw things, right? They got back to. the boat. When they got back to the. boat, they were basically described as. being hazed, something like that. Um. teased mercilessly. They said it was bad. for their career. David Fravor's. testified about this. Um uh we could talk about the geometry. of, you know, how they saw different. things. But I want to ask you as a as an. operator, if.

I I know people that have lost limbs to. IEDs, okay? If if you're on point if. you're going on patrol. and and one of your buddies says, "I I. think I see this thing and it's it's. unusual. It could be an IED or not. Like, when you got back to camp, would. you like tease that person or would you. say, "We should take this freaking. seriously.". >> Yeah, you would say, "We should take. this seriously.". >> So, what do you make of the fact. that when they got back and in. throughout and Ryan Graves has done a. good job of trying to combat this, but. what do you make of the fellow people.

that should also be encountering these. things and should be subject if they're. just simple, prosaic, man-made, Chinese, made whatever you want. They're they compose the danger of. flight risk, right? For these aircraft. that are operating at high, you know, velocities, right? What do you make of the fact that they. fellow aviators, their their equivalent. of operators in the teams, right? They. were teasing them. I I just. psychologically, can you help me get. through that? >> Well, I mean, I think the the comparison. as you brought up is a little. imbalanced. I mean, an IED. in the heyday of Iraq or Afghanistan, I.

mean, that that was a. You would see mult of the multiple of. those a day. Very common. You know what. I mean? Very Nobody would second-guess. that I mean, they might second-guess. you, but they're not going to make fun. of you, you know? I mean, it was just so. prevalent. It's happening multiple times. a day. You don't see. >> [clears throat]. >> UFOs popping in and out of the water. and, you know, defying physics. every day, every year, every decade.

Like, you just don't You know, if you. see it, you're very you're you're you're. you know, it's very rare, right? >> I I can see like my brother. I've three. brothers, right? I can see them teasing. the [ __ ] out of me, right? Like, >> It's kind of like a ghost. >> Right. Okay. >> Like, you. You might tease somebody if they've seen. a ghost. Like, "Oh, yeah, okay. You've. seen a [ __ ] ghost, right?". >> But if that ghost could take out, you. know, the entire intake on your F-18, you know, uh you know, Hornet, wouldn't you be a little bit, you know, like more interested in seeing if it's.

not not teasing them, but actually let's. let's go through the encounters like. >> I'd be interested, too. >> Yeah. >> As a professional, I'd probably crack a. little bit of a joke. You would, okay. You know what I mean? But I'd also be. interested to hear what was going on. I. mean, I mean, my old producer is the one that. logged it into the logbook. I mean, he was there. when that [ __ ] happened. Yeah. And um. but. >> Yeah, so I I I'm I'm not saying like. they should have been ridiculed or. anything like that.

But I I all I'm saying is I can. understand some heckling. >> Okay. >> You know, going on. >> Right. And then when you when you hear. things again, I'm a civilian. I'm. encouraged to do stuff that you and your. audience does, right? Although I do have some gifts for your. audience that we're going to talk about. later on. So that's that's a. cliffhanger. That's a retention device. >> [laughter]. >> Another question when I turn, you know, the the tables on the podcaster and ask. you ask you a question. You know, in the context of me as a. civilian, I'm told like.

you know, Keating, shut your mouth. These guys saw what they saw. You don't. have the balls to strap on an F-18. You. you didn't serve in the Air Force. Intelligence like Grusch. What what should I say in those. situations? It's true. You know, I'm a. pilot, but I don't fly F-18s. You don't. fly Cessnas, right? But but tell me. how should a civilian, you know, questioning what level of deference, what level of credulity? Should I just. believe someone cuz they they they. strapped on a jet and I didn't have the.

balls to do it or, you know, help me. walk me through that cuz I get that a. lot. Like you didn't have you you you. don't have the skills that that that he. has and you don't have the you don't you. don't have the fortitude to join, so you. can't question them even though I'm. like, well, I'm a physicist. Like I know. about FLIR. I know about radar. I know. about technology. I know how the you how. astronomy has always fed into technology. for military applications first and. foremost. But you're right, I'm not a. military operator. So how do I as a. civilian, you know, kind of navigate. that chasm?

>> I I don't think any of that's even. relevant. You didn't serve. What the. [ __ ] does that have to do with aliens. and UFOs? Like we're not we're not. talking about. >> They say like. >> some some tactical maneuver that they. did and bomb somebody and you're you're. second-guessing the tactics. >> No, not at all. >> They don't have any [ __ ]. experience with UFOs or aliens just like. anybody else. They saw some phenomena, right? So, I mean I.

>> I think that's it's it's it's uh. It's not legit. >> not very well-crafted defense mechanism, you know, in my opinion, but. >> But or or the the fact that like oh, they're they're they they have. great hand-eye coordination or they have. great, you know, the sniper knows, you. know, how to do this and that and like. they they know about observing things in. a high-threat environment at high speeds. and kinetic and kinetic environments. You're not kidding. You sit behind a. chalkboard and teach, you know, quantum. mechanics. Like. Nothing.

>> There's nothing legitimate about the. only ones that seem to be saying. >> The only ones that seem to have an. abundance of experience tracking. UFOs in real time have pretty much all. been debunked and are full of [ __ ] So, >> [laughter]. >> so I mean that's, you know, when it's a. continuous thing, it's like oh, there's. the exper- oh, [ __ ] it got debunked. again. [laughter] But. I don't know. Does that answer your. question? >> Yeah, I think it does. Yeah. >> Well, Brian, let me give you an. introduction here. >> Oh, yeah. >> Way too far into this. Brian Keating, you are the Chancellor's Distinguished.

Professor of Physics at UC San Diego, the inventor of the BICEP telescope at. the South Pole, and the principal. investigator of the Simons Ob-. Observatory, one of the largest. cosmology experiments ever built. A $100. million-plus telescope array in Chile's. I can't say this. Atomic Atomica? >> Atacama. >> At- Atacama Desert and involving over. 400 scientists from 40 institutions. You.

have raised approximately $200 million. for your research, received a. presidential early career award for. scientist and engineers, been elected to. a fellow of the of the American Physical. Society, and been inducted into the. International Aviation Hall of Fame as a. 2022 Legend of Flight. You're the author of Losing the Nobel. Prize, ranked a best science book of the. year by Science Friday, Physics Today, and Forbes, and one of Amazon's Editors'.

Best Nonfiction Books of All Time, and. the host of the Into the Impossible. Podcast with over 500,000 subscribers, where you interview scientific and. cultural pioneers, including 23 Nobel. Prize winners as past Wow, as past. guests. That's impressive. You are a. licensed multi-engine turbine-rated. commercial pilot who has lectured. on six of seven continents, including. Antarctica, and you arrive today with a.

replica of Galileo's 1609 military. telescope, a Martian regolith sample, and a 4.3-billion-year-old. meteorite that you will send to 250. members of this audience with APO. addresses. That's [ __ ] awesome. Welcome to the show. >> Thanks, Joe. It's quite the intro. >> Yeah, better late than never, but you. should hear what my mother-in-law says. in her rebuttal to the introduction. >> Oh, [ __ ]. >> [laughter]. >> Oh, man. And then uh before we get too.

far into it, uh I got a Patreon account. It's quite the community. They're the. reason that I get to sit here with you. today. Thank you. Uh so, they get the. opportunity to ask every single guest a. question. This is from Neil Ambrosio Jr. While most technologies to date have. been used for space space exploration. What are your thoughts on that same. technology being used for the. weaponization of space? >> So, one of the oldest partnerships in.

science is between astronomy. and the military. Most people don't know about that, but. but the the same types of technologies. of of inventions, of calculations, of. theory are exactly applicable in. military situations. Uh for example, the telescope, this. replica telescope here of Galileo's 1609. telescope. So, Galileo didn't invent the. telescope. A lot of people think, oh, he. invented it. He actually kind of stole.

the idea. Um and he he he sort of admits. to it, but that's that's academia for. you, you know, we're we're used to kind. of, you know, uh taking credit sometimes where where. credit may not be due. But what he did do is he kind of made it. like 10x. I don't know, do you ever have. a Blackberry, you know, back in the day. or Nokia, you know, kind of phone, right? Um. the uh the the first kind of phones that. did more than just, you know, send calls. back and forth, um had early access to. the internet and you could do, you know,

very crude browsing. Uh and that's what made them really. popular. But what made the the. smartphone really take off exponentially. was that it was 10 to 100x better. than anything that came before. And so, uh. quantity has a quality all its own. Creating something for the first time, like creating a telescope is one thing, but then improving it by a factor of 10, it's almost like it's a new invention. And that's what Galileo did. He didn't. invent it. It's the most simple thing. you can think about. It's got two.

lenses. It's got a lens over here. This. is called the objective lens. This is. the side that faces the object that. you're looking for. And then this is. called the eyepiece lens, another lens. on the other side. This simple thing has. about 1-in diameter lens and it can see. everything that you could possibly see. with the naked eye, but 10 times better. And that change in humanity's literal. perspective on the universe changed the. world, but it wouldn't have been. possible without Galileo's improvement. And in fact, he not only improved it by.

by the type of quality of the glass that. he used, the lens material, the. the spacing of the material, he also did. things that are kind of. counterintuitive. You see, Sean, the the. lens that's here is actually bigger than. this brass disc that surrounds it. But. the brass disc is actually crucial to. the improvement. Uh because what the. brass disc does is it focuses the fovea. of your eye in the best part of the. lens. If you had the whole lens exposed.

to the light, there's all sorts of. artifacts of glints, of glare, it's. called ghosting. Um and and those. effects reduced the utility of the. telescope. So, Galileo. counterintuitively said, "Let's take. this telescope and make it smaller.". It's called stopping down, like an. aperture, an F-stop on a camera. That. actually restricts the light. That made. it focus better. It was genius. No, I. wouldn't have thought of that, right? Let's make this thing better by making. it smaller. Like, [laughter] I said. nobody ever, you know, you always want. bigger, better, but no, that made it.

would have made it worse. He made it. better. The other thing that he did, which nobody really had done before, it's crazy, is put it on a tripod. He. invented the tripod. And what do you get. when you put an optic on top of a. tripod? Stability. Get stability. Because the telescope is magnifying not. only the object that you're looking at, but it's also magnifying the rotation of. the Earth. As we look at the stars, it's actually. making it them go by faster, right? The. stability made when you couple the.

stability to the optic itself, you could. now use this for military purposes. This became the first sniper rifle. scope. This is the first optic ever. made. Okay? It's a replica of it. The. real one, there's only one left, and. it's about, you know, a trillion. dollars. So, I I can't bring that for. you. Maybe next time. Um but what was so. useful about it is Galileo didn't use it. for astronomy. That wasn't the first. thing he used it for. He did for himself. cuz that was what his passion was. The. first night he invented this new. improved version of it with the tripod, he looked at the moon.

And the moon at that time was unknown. territory. People had no idea what was. on it, what it was made of, if there's. life there, if there's if it's totally. different than the Earth. And he looked. at it and he saw it looks perfectly. smooth and circular to the eye. It has. blotches on it, but um but he didn't. know what those were. He looked at that. and he saw the following. He saw. mountains, he saw craters, he saw lava. flows. He said, "Wait a second. People are telling us for 2,000 years. it's perfect. It's a crystalline sphere. This isn't perfect. It's riddled with.

holes and craters and and marks and. mountain ranges and rift valleys and. craters and canyons. It's kind of like. the Earth.". That was the first unification of an. extraterrestrial object with the Earth. That was amazing. He then looked at. other objects and did the and he and he. wrote these all in his notebook and he. kept them all in a span of 3 months he. discovered the following things. The moon has craters. The moon has. rivers, looks like rivers to the eye.

Looks like it has oceans on it. It. doesn't have flowing water anymore or. ever did really. Um it has valleys, canyons, has vast plains upon it, okay? He saw that. That was one night. The. next night he saw the the planet Venus. goes through certain phases just like. the moon. In other words, sometimes. there's a crescent Venus, sometimes. there's a full Venus, sometimes there's. a a waning crescent Venus, sometimes. there's no Venus and you can't see it. That must have meant that Venus was. closer to the sun than the Earth cuz.

that's the only way we get phases of the. moon. Sometimes the moon is closer to. the sun than it is to the Earth. Um and then he discovered that the. planet Saturn had these ears on it. He. thought the planet Saturn, instead of. knowing of the rings of Saturn, he. couldn't resolve them with his first. telescopes, but he saw that they had um. this had this extended. oval shape to it, and it kind of blew. his mind. He thought it was three. planets touching each other. Okay? And. then the last it most insane thing that. he ever did, in my opinion, it again, this is all in just a few weeks in the.

winter January of 1610. Um, it's just. mind-blowing. No one had ever done that. before in history. Even though the. telescope existed, no one thought to. look at the sky cuz they didn't have the. technology, the tripod. Okay, and I'm. getting to the question that was asked. in just a second. Um, he looked at the. planet Jupiter. And Jupiter is the biggest planet in our. solar system, and he saw it had all. sorts of crazy structure to it. It had. lines on it like atmospheric storms. It. had this blotch on it, this red spot on. it, uh, that seemed to be there every.

night that he would look on it, and it. was always accompanied by four stars. And the four stars were always like kind. of moving with respect to Jupiter, and. then Jupiter was moving with respect to. the Earth. And he was such a genius. He said the. following. He said, "I think what I'm. looking at is a miniature version of the. solar system. with the sun replaced by Jupiter, and the planets that orbit around the. sun, which was heretical to think back. then, by the way, the planets that orbit. around the sun are orbiting around.

Jupiter. So, Jupiter's kind of like the sun. to this miniature solar system that we. saw edge on like a disk. So, he saw. these things moving back and forth. always around Jupiter no matter where. Jupiter was every time of the year that. he could see it. And this is just mind-blowing. And then. he raced to publish this. He published. it in under 2 months, which is like a. record. He published this book called. the Sidereus Nuncius, the Starry. Messenger, and he didn't tell people how to build. the telescope. He kept that classified. But he did go to Venice, which, you.

know, Italy was only a country, you. know, in the modern sense, I think in. the 1840s. Like it was unified. It was. made up of like Florence and Tuscany and. Venice. Like it was they're disparate. uh doges and and and kingdoms, right? Uh. so, he went to Venice. He shopped it. around to different militaries. And he. said, "Look, guys, with this telescope, you can go on top of a tower in the. Piazza de San Marco in Venice. I don't. know if you've ever been to Venice. It's. a wonderful place. You should go there, especially if you're Italian or of. Italian origin. So, you go on top of the. tower in Venice, you can look out onto.

the ocean, and you can see in the. lagoon, you can see a boat. today that won't be here for 3 days.". And that was like stealth, right? And. so, be like looking at the stealth. bomber with a special device, and you. could take away the stealth of the. stealth bomber. And so, this technology between. astronomy, which was his main purpose in. doing it intellectually, and then. selling it to the military immediately. to the to the Venetian government, gave. them this huge advantage. They gave him.

like basically a stipend, tenure, made. him like this court astronomer. And he. immediately saw how military purposes. could be the vehicle to make him. wealthy, cuz he was a real cool guy. He. had He was never married. He had kids. out of wedlock. He had mistresses. He. had brothers-in-law. He had people. living with him, like students living. with him. [laughter] I can't imagine. living with my students. Um and he was. just such a passionate educator, but at. heart he was like a military genius. And. his first thing was to be like Merlin.

or, you know, Gandalf or something. He. knew that astronomical discoveries, projectile motion, trajectories, things. like that, could immediately go from the. realm of physics to being used for war. And the same thing is happening today, to address the question directly. We. have technologies, we have tools, we. have telescopes, we have things that. have been designed. One of the things. that Uh, Avi Loeb spoke to you about. this uh, object called Oumuamua was the. first extraterrestrial object discovered.

by humanity. It came from another solar. system. We don't know where, we don't. know when, but we know that it did not. come from our solar system. >> we know that? >> It's velocity and it's orbit. It's not. bound to the sun. And it comes it travels at such. hyper-velocity that it came into our. solar system in 2017 and left our solar. system. And it's long gone for for now for right. now. We can't really catch up with two. with a rocket, but we know for sure it. was there. It was discovered by an Air. Force telescope. Not an astronomer, not. Avi Loeb looking through a telescope. It.

was discovered by an Air Force telescope. on top of Haleakala, which is a mountain. in Maui. So, this. purpose of that telescope was not to. look for comments from other solar. systems. That's serendipitous. That was. accidental that we discovered it. It's. real purpose is looking for other things. that are up there in space. And the best. way to do that is to use the tools of. physics, of astronomy. And that's what I. keep saying. If you think that these. UAPs defy the laws of physics, you would. want to have as much input from the.

physics community, not alienate them, and no pun intended, not make them feel. stupid or make them feel like they're. just eggheads and they're they're just. talking down to people and we know the. truth and the government lied about. COVID, Sean. You know the government. lied about COVID. So, you know that. they're lying about aliens. >> never lie. >> Yeah. I love it. The government would never. lie. They just have our best interest. and and always forever. They always. have, right? I mean, even to Galileo, eventually he ran a foul of the. government because of these astronomical. telescopes, because of the discoveries.

he made. Bruno ran a foul of the same. Catholic government, which was the. government of the time, the superpower. military undefeated champion of the. world. He ran a foul because he suggested that. life could have existed on other. planets. Therefore, Jesus could not have. possibly been able to visit all of these. different planets, according to the. Catholic Church at the time. And so, they literally accused him of heresy, even though he was a he was a uh, he was a I believe he was a Jesuit or. Catholic priest. So, they burned him.

alive at the stake as a warning. Do not. defy with your science our laws of how. the heavens go. Because we know, the. Bible knows how they actually work. >> Wow. Wow. >> If you look at it, you know, do. governments lie? Of course they do. Is there ever a reason? I'd love I'd. love your opinion on like at that time, saying that the Earth orbited the Sun.

would would be. it would be like saying, you know, the. lab leak of COVID, if you believe that. It would be like that on steroids. Like, does the government or should any entity. have responsibility to avoid either mass. panic, as in the case of aliens or. something like that, or mass. pandemics? In other words, do we need. any kind of overarching government. beneficial, we can debate if they are. ever could be beneficial, but in your. opinion, is it important to have governments, and.

do they have a right to have secrecy? In. other words, let's steel man what the. people say that we have to keep this. quiet, we can't disclose. Trust me, bro. How do you view that as someone who's. deeply involved? >> s-. stark difference between. flat-out lying. and just not disclosing. You know, I I think I think I think. there's a. a line there. Don't you? >> I do, and I think that the government, you know, but I guess I'm asking you, is.

there a moral reason to lie? Is there. >> to your people, now you're in a predicament like what. we're seeing right now, where. I would say. the vast majority of people have no. trust in any of our institutions or our. government at all. Because. [clears throat] they've been caught in. so many [ __ ] lies and nobody nobody. knows what to believe. Nobody even knows. if these are lies. Well, well, a lot of them are lies. But, you. know, but [clears throat] there there. are.

Nobody knows about this alien [ __ ] yet. You know what I mean? For example, it's. like. do we believe them? Why would we believe. them? They've lied about so many other. [ __ ] things. They've lied about COVID. They've lied. about taxes. They've lied about pretty. much everything. You know, and and so. you know, and now. I don't even know how they would begin. to get the trust back. >> [clears throat]. >> In our in our institutions and our. government. >> You think it's that far gone? >> I think it's pretty close.

>> Well, you know, I have this debate, you know, I told you before we start recording, my. my brother-in-law Jim Brewer is a. was a recon marine. And [clears throat] you know, I told him. about some of the things that, you know, these the people that have alien. encounters have been reporting. And and. just and he's he's like, "Well, we did. what's called SERE, like search, evade, rescue.". >> SERE training. >> SERE training. He said, "When we did that, he's he. said, I got waterboarded." You know, he's he's like "The government does.

stuff to us and I'm convinced the. government lies, you know, they lie to. people that should have the deepest. trust and I don't understand how they. expect that trust to be maintained." You. know, for example, pilots report things in the skies, right? One explanation is. extraterrestrial craft visiting us from. other dimensions, right? With a. non-human biologics. Okay, that's a. hypothesis, right? I'm a scientist, I. can test the hypothesis given data, update my priors, update my hypothesis, iterate, scientific method in action, right?

Uh another hypothesis is um these are. craft from the US, from adversarial. nations reporting things, doing things. that we don't know about. For example, during World War II um there were. operators of German U-boats. and the Germans had early radar systems. I don't know if most people know this, but there's the Manhattan Project. Everybody knows about that, the. Oppenheimer movie, great movie. And I'm all for celebrating physicists. And that's great. It's very you have a. movie about a physicist who's, you know,

doing good and not, you know, trying to. kill everybody. But but during the Manhattan Project, that gets a lot of attention cuz it. created the atomic weapons that. eventually, you know, most people's. opinions brought the end to the war in. Japan. We were [clears throat] in a race. against the Europeans, the Germans in. particular, before they developed a. nuclear weapon and dropped it on us, right? The Japanese weren't really in a. danger of doing that. But the Germans. had the some of the best scientists of. the time, you know, the Heisenberg and. just incredible scientific That's where. quantum theory began and nuclear physics.

was first understood was in Europe. But. there was a parallel effort. that almost nobody knows about and yet. you use it every day, you know, if. you're driving in a car, if you're. flying in a plane, and it was radar. Radar was one of the most significant. military advances of World War that. almost nobody knows about it. And it was. also created by physicists. So the two. of the most decisive technological. enabling things were invented by. astronomers and physicists operating in.

World War and and slightly before. Radar was particularly valuable because. it was much more deployable than the. nuclear technology of of Los Alamos and. then leading to the bombs, right? That. took this huge effort, you know, trillion dollars in today's dollars. Radar was much more accessible. Any. country could develop it. But at that time, there was also an. effort to do counter radar. You can't. have counter nuclear weapon. I guess you. could shoot them down with a Patriot. missile, but that doesn't really stop.

the the process of nuclear detonation, right? But you can actually counter the. radar with jamming, with stealth. All. those things were invented in the 1940s. Some of whom were invented by colleagues. of my colleagues that, you know, were. still alive in this generation. essentially. And one of them was a name. uh a physicist by the name of Luis. Alvarez. Have you ever heard the hypothesis that. the dinosaurs were killed by a meteor. impact in the Yucatan Peninsula 66. million years ago? >> Uh-huh.

>> So, speaking cuz I cuz I I am an. absent-minded professor, so I will. forget. So, I brought some meteorites. here, okay? So, these are. honest-to-goodness fragments. of the early solar system that are older. than the Earth. These are 4. .3 billion years old. >> Wow. >> These are found in Argentina. So, this. one's. >> New? >> And I brought some more. >> How old is this? >> 4.3 billion years old. The Earth is.

about 4.2 billion years old. This material, it's kind of dense, right? It's pretty heavy. It's also magnetic. Here's a compass. I'm going to do Mr. Wizard with you. today, Sean. Um here's a compass, magnetic compass. Put it next to there and maybe show the. camera what happens to it. >> Well, I don't know if the camera can see. it, but. >> Yeah. So, it's going to affecting it cuz. these are magnetic. They're also slightly radioactive, but.

don't worry. Uh they're they're perfectly safe. >> Right. >> [laughter]. >> So, what I wanted to do because I love. the audience and the community that. you've built. Um and for the people that. serve and have the courage to do things. I never had the courage or the ability. to do. Um I want to give away 250 of. these to the first members of the Sean. Ryan Show that uh have an APO post. office uh box, which is military or. government service post office box, so I. can send these all over the world to any. the first 200 people that have an APO.

box. So I made a special website. BrianKeating.com/srs. So if they go there, whoever gets there. first, first come first serve, I will. send them this actual meteorite, okay? >> Oh damn, that's cool. >> And I'm going to send them information. about it, what it's made of, its. composition, its age, where it was. found, and how they can see meteor. shower. Have you ever seen a meteor. shower? >> Don't believe I have. >> Don't Oh, you will love it. And here, you know, in God's country, um I will give you a list of the four.

major meteor showers every year. You. don't need a telescope. You don't need. something anything beside Even. binoculars don't help you. Just your naked eye, your wife, your. kids, go out on a night, you'll get the. list of meteor showers at this website. BrianKeating.com/srs. And it will tell you how to see them. Uh. four times per year, once per quarter, basically. These meteors here, okay, these these. rocks here, these are older than this. The The physicist who discovered that. the dinosaurs were killed by a giant.

version of one of these, 10 km in size, okay, I can bring that today, that crashed into the Yucatán Peninsula. His name is Luis Alvarez. He'd go on to. win the. uh Nobel Prize in physics. He was the. only scientist on the Enola Gay. when they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima. Okay, this guy was one of the super. geniuses. Almost nobody knows about him. In World War II, his job was radar, not. nuclear bombs, but he then got. repurposed after he perfected radar. He said the following. He said when an object gets close to a. radar station, the radar's pinging it,

right? It's shooting out radar beams, and it's bouncing off and it's measuring. the timing as the plane is getting. closer to the U-boat. And the U-boats had pretty advanced. radar systems. What he did is he built a spoofing. system. He built a system that as it was getting. closer, transmitted a signal that got weaker. via the inverse square of the distance, which is exactly how a real thing would. behave if it was moving away. So imagine. you're sitting there in the boat and. you're in the U-boat. You're like, "Come. on, captain. Look, look. Oh, it's going.

away. We have nothing to worry about.". U-boat gets destroyed. He spoofed the radar by utilizing the. laws of physics. Broadcasting a signal decreasing as the. inverse square of the as they were. getting closer. by the linear. >> Wow. >> distance, okay? Now, imagine you're in. the U-boat. and you're looking at you're showing. your captain. He said, "Oh, it's going away.". And then it drops a bomb on you and you. see it at the last second. What would you say? You say, "Hey, that. object is a UFO.

It defied the laws of physics. It got. here faster than the speed of light.". They know they were smart as [ __ ]. heck, right? Germans were top military. empire the world had ever seen. They would say they defied the laws of. physics. How do we know that some of the things. that are happening now aren't military. technology? >> We have no idea. >> What's a simpler hypothesis? Occam's. razor suggests the simplest hypothesis. isn't always correct, but it's more. likely than an outlandish or less. probable. scenario, right? So, interdimensional.

beings with non-human biologics have. traversed space and time at distances. that we can't traverse in under 30,000. years with our best technology or. the military Chinese military whatever. military you like is spoofing us making. us think that that's the case making it. seem like it's defying laws of physics. Is that proof? But, no. A scientist has. to think this way. Has to think. epistemologically. I asked the question. in the in the in the Patreon tier that. I'm a member at and Sean and the.

Vigilance Elite. I asked the question of. Brian Keating. I said, "Ask Sean if he's. ever heard of the Feynman point.". >> Mhm. >> You ever heard of the Feynman point? Okay. >> [clears throat]. >> Richard Feynman, another titanic. physicist uh Manhattan Project. scientist, professor Caltech, winner of. the Nobel Prize discovering the quantum. theory. He found an interesting pattern in the. number pi. The number pi is the ratio of a circle's. circumference to its diameter. Okay, it's approximately 3.14. And if you're a real nerd and you want.

nerd cred, you memorize it to more. digits. 3.141592658. and you keep going. And one of my kids. can do it to 22 decimal places. Wow. Feynman. measured it and he found really far out, you get to the number six in pi, which. goes on forever, but at a certain point. it goes 66666. Six sixes in a row. Nothing like that happens before. And that point is called the Feynman.

point. Do you know where the Feynman. point occurs? How many digits of pi you. have to memorize out to to get to the. Feynman point, Shawn? >> No idea. >> 762. 762. >> It's a great caliber. >> What's that? >> It's a great caliber, right? >> I always wanted like is your handle. because of the by 31 or 50th? >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. Hopefully we'll we'll try out the. range at some point. Um so now you might. say that's like hey uh Shawn, that's.

really cool, right? And you might say. like that's a really cool number and. Richard Feynman is really smart. Or is. it a coincidence? Scientists has to weigh both options. It. could be aliens, it could be human. technology. >> Mhm. >> Right now we have no. evidence that proves beyond a reasonable. doubt in a scientific sense. that aliens exist, that technology is. visiting us. Does that mean it's. impossible? Like I said, I've been to. Antarctica. Antarctica is 1/7 of the. Earth's continents. If you just. estimated if I if I told you you're. you're just an alien and I say Shawn,

Earth is this blue green planet with an. atmosphere and life's all around the. planet. Um. there's seven continents where land is, where where land-based animals can live. Um one out of seven continents is called. one of them is called Antarctica. I. don't tell you where it is, I don't tell. you anything about it. How much of Earth's 8 billion people. live on that continent? What would be. your first guess? >> 800. >> [laughter]. >> 800 people. Well, you know me now, yeah. >> Yeah, I mean, I'd probably take. population divided by seven. >> Yeah, exactly, right? But, we already.

told you, it's over a million you know, it's over yeah, it's almost a million. times smaller than that, right? So, a. couple hundred hundred people at a time. So, people like to say, "Well, the universe. is so big." You know, like Avi and Loeb. have talked very extensively about this. The universe is really big. Well, the. Earth is really big, right? We don't. find life everywhere on Earth, all. right? We only find humans, you know, one six of the seven continents. But, by. just pure. logical explanation, you should expect. to find it everywhere. So, I'm not.

saying logic is a panacea. I'm not. saying it's always the solution, and you. should only think scientifically, but I want to use it as a guide, at. least as as much as we can as a human. being species, to get at knowledge in the most. efficient and effective way possible. And if it turns up what it turns up, let's see what happens. Don't let the. people suppress what the information is. truly scientifically. >> Thank you. Thank you. Let's take a quick break. >> Aging is inevitable. And if you're.

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Welcome to Hollywood versus reality. They do it, right? What does he do in the movies? Did he. >> [music]. >> Tell me if I'm doing this wrong, cuz I. don't watch any of this [ __ ]. Little flick like that, right? Seems. pretty cool. It is pretty [ __ ] cool. Got to silence it. In another lifetime, I did gun reviews. for a living. Proprietary magazines.

It's supposedly the best engineering in. the [ __ ] world. When that breaks, your. And now we're bringing them back. It does look pretty [ __ ] cool. I got. to I got to admit that. All right, Brian, we're back from the. break. I forgot to give you. a gift. The John Wick gummy bears. Made in the.

USA. Legal in all 50 states. Not that. you have to worry about that. California's right. But, uh, anyways. They are they are they are. >> I got to I got to. ask the question. Let's see. >> I don't know what that means. >> corn syrup gelatin. >> But. >> Not kosher, but I'll give it to I'll. give it to my brother-in-law. >> Right on. >> I'll give it to my Jim Brewer, this is. for you, brother. >> But, um. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Yeah. So, I want to get into the. telescope, the buy sub. >> Yeah. >> Can you How did you.

>> [clears throat]. >> How did you get involved in that? >> So, you know, um. A lot of kids when they're young, men, uh they can be look up to their dad, they can have difficulty with their dad, they can be competitive with their dad. Um. my you know, my father was the captain. of the football team, I got to be. captain of the football team, you know, or whatever. Or my my my father served, I'm going to. serve, you know. My father you know, was a scientist, he. was a professor. And um early on in my life, he got.

divorced from my mom. >> Mhm. >> And. when he did, he he actually uh abandoned. my older brother, Kevin, and me. And we. grew up adopted by my stepfather, Ray Keating, who was uh Vietnam pilot, F-4s, and KC-135s, served in Vietnam. And he adopted us um. from my family, which was I grew up. Jewish, like I said, both parents were. Jewish. And then my uh stepfather's. family was Catholic. And huge, you know,

50 brothers and sisters, uncles and. aunts, and it was so such an incredible. family. I mean, they're still, you know, tighter with me than my own biological. family growing up, except for my my. brothers, of course, and my mom. >> [clears throat]. >> But, my father just he abandoned us, so. I actually changed my name, was legally. adopted. Uh my name when I was a kid was. not Keating, it was Axe, Brian Axe, so. now it's Keating. Changed my name. My brother, too. And um. and he left. He just, you know, he.

abandoned me and my brother. I was 7, he my brother was 10. And he moved to the West Coast, didn't. see him 15, 16 years. >> Wow. >> Until I started to kind of follow. in his academic footsteps, which is. weird because I didn't remember what he. looked like. Okay, I was 7. last time I saw him. My brother was 10. I never understood how he could abandon. a 10-year-old. I was like, "I'm 7, I'm. not that important." But like my brother. was like a full I mean, you know kids, you know what it's like. I I can't. imagine doing it anybody to be honest.

with you. >> Me, neither. >> But he did and he had his reasons. Later. find out why, but but I don't. >> What were his reasons? >> He he felt like my mother had. turned us against him. That had you. know, she had. kind of pitted us psychologically. against him, which wasn't that big of a. stretch because he was kind of an. a-hole, you know. He He tried to beat up. my stepfather, came over one night drunk. or whatever trying to beat up my. stepfather, take us back and he'd go.

through my, you know, visitation. >> He tried to beat up a [ __ ] seasoned. Vietnam veteran? >> Uh yeah, he did. >> How'd that work out? >> work out that well. Did not work out that well. >> [laughter]. >> So, but he was this brutally complex, brilliant I mean, still the most I've. interviewed 23 Nobel Prize winners. Puts. all them to shame. I mean, he did. He. passed away as you'll find out, but. he was a great scientist and. you know, when I was going through my. formative years, you know, in the high. school, I got really interested in.

astronomy. I got a telescope. just like this. Um and it changed my life. You know, I had been adopted. I'd been. Jewish as from birth, but I was adopted. I got converted to Catholicism by my mom. and my stepfather. Changed my name got baptized. confirmed and instead of being what's. called a bar mitzvah when you're in. Judaism at age 13. um you become a man, so to speak. Although having 13-year-olds now, I mean.

it's kind of a far stretch to call them. a man, but uh but anyway, that's a rite. of passage. >> Uh-huh. >> I was actually not having my bar. mitzvah. I was an altar boy in the. Catholic Church of St. John and St. Mary. in Chappaqua, New York. And I loved it. I had no problems with. the Catholic Church. I wanted to be a. priest. um when I grew up uh until I discovered. girls around the same age. And I just. loved that whole environment, but along. the same time, I got a telescope. And I looked up and I did those kind of. observations that I told you Galileo.

did. I didn't know who Galileo was at. first. I looked at the moon. It had craters on. it. I looked at Jupiter. It had moons. around it. I looked at Saturn. It had. rings around it. This is I looked at my. neighbor Debbie. She was super hot. >> [laughter]. >> Sorry, Debbie, if you're still out. there. Never saw anything, you know, too bad. Uh but but in in reality, it kind of it. transformed my world view and I started. learning more. And this is before the. internet. In 1986, '87, there was no. Google. There was no Yeah, you had the.

Sunday New York Times newspaper in. Chappaqua, New York, right? So I could. look up stuff. Oh, wait. I saw Jupiter. I mean, how. many people out there know they can see. a planet with their naked eye? Or see a. galaxy with their naked eye. You can do. all that stuff. I got this telescope. I worked at a deli. down the hall down the street from where. I was living in Dobbs Ferry at the time. in New York. And I um saved up enough money and my. mom gave me a little money. And I bought. a telescope and it changed my world. It. literally made me into a scientist. That's what I say out there. Any dads.

out there, you know, parents out there, get your kid a telescope. Just do it. It's 50 bucks. Actually, I have a. website brianketing.com/telescope. It's I don't get sponsored. I don't get, you know, big astronomy, NASA's not. paying me to do this, but I give. recommendations for telescopes for. different budgets. And nowadays, it's. insane. I have a telescope now that. costs a few thousand bucks. It takes. Hubble kind of telescope images. You. know, incredible stuff. It's all It's. all electronic. You don't put your eye. in it. But, you can put just the most.

incredible vision into their mind. And. then, when they're 10 or 11 years old, maybe they'll be They're crazy. >> I mean, when I was. cuz I would look at at these for my kids. cuz they're always My son's like. obsessed with the moon. And I was looking up telescopes on. Amazon. And I was like, "Holy [ __ ]. these things will like find the damn. stars for you and focus them. You don't. even have to do anything.". >> start with that. Start with something. >> I did. And I started with the old NASA. >> Yeah. >> you know. >> Yeah, just point it and look at whatever. was bright except for the sun. Okay, don't look at the sun with your.

remaining good eye. >> Yeah, I'm supposed to do that. I'm. >> So, uh but everything You can see the. exact same things that Galileo saw. And. unlike, you know, Sean, what you're. saying, people say, "What's it like to. be a scientist?" I can't really tell. you, you know, like when they discovered. the Higgs boson or they, you know, they. discovered nuclear fusion. Like, I don't. know what that was like cuz you can't. There wasn't one guy who did it, right? But, there was one guy who discovered. the craters on the moons, the rings of. Saturn, the moons of Jupiter. That's. Galileo. And so, you can not only see what he.

saw. This is what's insane about. astronomy. For 50 bucks, so go out and. get a freaking telescope for all your. kids or grandkids or whoever, Sean. It's. the cheapest kind of insurance that. they'll be curious, thinking for. themselves individuals. You can see. exactly what Galileo saw from the middle. of San Diego or New York City. He didn't He didn't need a Hubble. telescope to see that stuff. He was in. northern Italy. You can see the exact. same stuff he saw even from a. light-polluted place like New York City. Craters, valleys on the moon, canyons. You can see the rings of of Sa- So, what.

I'm saying is I got addicted to it. as as a as a as a 12-year-old. Um. >> [clears throat]. >> and at that time, Galileo, who had conjectured that because Jupiter. has moons around it, that the Earth. cannot be the center of the solar. system, because Jupiter's moons are. orbiting Jupiter, which itself is orbiting the sun, but. it's not orbiting the sun. According to. Aristotle, according to the Greeks, according to all of ancient received. wisdom, you know, from following the. science for the last 2,000 years before.

Galileo, no, the sun was the center of. the universe. Sorry. Cut that out. The Earth was the center. of the universe. In fact, that's what. the Bible seemed to suggest. That's why. he was That's why Bruno was burned at. the stake, and that's why Galileo was. put in jail eventually. And so, when I found out, "Hmm, what. happened to Galileo when he had these. ideas? What did the Catholic Church do. to him?". They threw him in prison. for his scientific ideas. Um at that.

time, you know, I can't say it didn't have something to. do with discovering girls, to be honest. with you, Sean. I'm like, not wanting to. go all the way and be a priest, and and. you know, be around nuns all my life, and that would be the only woman in my. life. Um so, no. So, I decided at that. point, like, I'm going to be an atheist. Like, I actually decided I'm going to be. an atheist. >> Really? Just cuz you won't like girls? >> No, well, that's That's not like some. small thing, Sean. I mean, >> [laughter]. >> You can still believe in God and like. girls, man. >> no. I I decided I didn't want to be a.

priest because I like girls. Uh but, no. I I decided that I don't want to be a. part of a religious organization that. would punish someone for scientific. truth. And at that time, Pope John Paul II, who. was, you know, my favorite pope. I still. love him. Yeah. I still love. Catholicism. I still love the popes, you. know. Um but, he was special. He was a. very special person. And even he never. pardoned Galileo. He just said he was right. Imagine, like, you do something, you're in. service, or the president doesn't like.

give you a commendation. Certainly. doesn't give you a commendation, but. they're like, "We You were right, but. we're not even going to take away. the crime that we accused you of. We're. not even going to say that you pardon. him.". I mean, there's something that was. unsettling to me as a young Again, I was. a 13-year-old nitwit, right? So, what do. you know, right? But, at that time it was kind of. justification. >> That's when you decided to become an. atheist. >> decided to become an atheist, and there. was another reason cuz I said I was born. Jewish, right? >> Mhm. >> But, I became Catholic, which is. Christianity. >> Mhm. >> Um [clears throat] I served in the.

Catholic Church. I loved it. And um. and and you know, for me, I came from. this uh from a tradition that's older. than Christianity, right? >> Jesus Christ was. Jesus Christ was a Jew. >> And I felt like, well, Christianity came. along after Judaism. Right? It came along after Judaism, right? Jesus was was a Jew. Um so, if uh. if Christianity has these challenges, like they're not going to accept. scientific wisdom, or they didn't uh. forgive Galileo, um and so, then I could.

say, well, Judaism has got to be wrong. because, you know, if something is based. on, you know, if if if um calculus is. based on algebra, and and you know, calculus, you can say, well, calculus or algebra's wrong, then. certainly calculus will be wrong. It. That's not true, but but that's kind of. the analogy I'm making here. So, I just. felt like all of religion, you know, has these things we have to. listen to these these authorities, you. have to do what they say, you have to. think what they do, and you can't think. for yourself. Again, I'm a 13-year-old. at this point. I'm not a sophisticated. 50-year-old, you know, professor who has.

investigated religions and and and. compared things and had much more. experience than I do now, okay? Now, I. did that. So, at that time, I became a scientist in. terms of curiosity because I wasn't only. looking at things and oh, cool. I. started taking notes. I started doing. research. I started And again, this is. before Google. And sometimes the more. you struggle to get information, like. nowadays I feel bad for my kids in some. sense because they want to know, like, um you know, how how many golf balls fit.

inside the Goodyear Blimp? Like, literally, I would have to calculate. There was no tool to do that. Well, I'm. not saying that's some important thing, but but you get the point. Now, that you. literally look it up in 1 second, you. get instant gratification. You don't do any of the muscular work. You don't You don't damage the muscle to. break it down in your brain. Uh and so, I feel like uh they're losing. out on that. For me, I was doing all. that, and I felt like the more I learned. about science, the less room there was. for God. Look, I'm not the first person. to say that, right? Nowadays, I'm. practicing religious I practice Judaism.

So, obviously, I came back to it. We can. get to that later on. But but in the. sense of knowing a little enough to be. dangerous, that's kind of where I was at. age 13. And I devoted my life to science. I. wanted to I taught myself calculus. You know, I didn't calculus when I was. in where I grew up in rural upstate New. York, you know, northern Westchester. County. I had to do it myself. I had to. teach myself autodidactically, learning. all these different things, trigonometry. And then I was doing. research in my telescope at night. And I. just loved it. I was addicted to it. I.

was getting to that flow state, and. that's all you want to do in life. And then, slowly but surely, I started. to reproduce like the step that my. father. you know, who I hadn't seen in 16 years. or 15 you know, whatever it was at that. point, 12 years. And I started to reproduce and I was. like, "Hmm, let me look up in scientific. journals like whatever happened to him, Jim Axe.". James Axe, whatever happened to him. What did he do? And I saw these papers. about science. And it was like the most. high-level science, the origin of. quantum mechanics, quantum entanglement, um theory of relativity,

uh origin of the universe. And I'm like, "This guy has my DNA. You know, I have. his DNA.". But there's something different. I. wasn't raised with him, but I'm doing. the same thing as him. It's weird. It. felt. creepy. to be influenced by a ghost. I didn't. know anything I didn't even know if he. was alive. >> Wow. >> And I hit 22, I was in grad school, 21. at Brown. >> So, your mom I mean, she she would never. >> Oh, they were they they fought so bad, and they did kind of use us between us. intermediaries.

>> That sucks, man. >> Uh it it was that that was a challenge. in 1970s. Happened with. >> Um he and and. also, you know, to really, you know, give him the kind of negative judgment. that he deserved, um when you get. divorced, you know, hopefully, you know, it's never happened, but um. you have child support, you have. alimony. And he was given the opportunity to. choose between paying the back child. support that he owed for myself and my. brother. or giving us up to adoption to my.

stepfather, Ray Keating. He was only. 30-year-old guy at the time. And he said, "I don't want to pay the. money.". So, he gave us up for adoption. So, my name got changed, brother's name. got changed. I didn't see him. I hated. him. I I never I was like, "How could. you abandon my older brother?" Like, I. was protecting my older brother, Catholic 10-year-old, who you were close to. It wasn't like, you know, they weren't close. They were. very close. Gave him up because he hated. my mother so much. And she hated him just as much. Okay, it. was a very nasty divorce.

Um. and so, by the time I hit graduate school, got. my PhD at Brown University, I started Again, the internet was pretty. young in the mid-1990s. I started research like, what did he do? Like, who was he? Is he alive? I didn't. know. I didn't remember what he looked like. The last time I saw him was in a court. in in in Long Island, New York. Sean, I I didn't know what he looked. like 15, 16 years later. It's a It's. bizarre. And I started research what he was doing. and what kind of research he was doing.

and and what happened to him. And it. turned out he was still writing things. about like quantum mechanics, cosmology, relativity, all the stuff that I was. like fascinated with and I wanted to. dedicate my life to. But there was like quantum entanglement. Like, somehow he had influenced me from. beyond. the, you know, visual horizon. I hadn't. seen him, kept up with him. There's no. internet really. So, it was spooky. It was spooky action. at a distance. He was influencing me. So, I started research him.

Got more and more involved in it. I had. a you know, kind of like a minor medical. scare when I was like 22 and I thought. it could be genetic and and whatnot. And. it turned out that my mother's mother. and my father's mother. both moved to the same part of Florida. Which is called the the the Yiddish. triangle. You know, all these Jewish. grandmothers, they all get together and. then they live uh you know, in 3 miles. around Sunrise, Florida. on the on the East Coast of Florida. It's a It's a great place to retire.

And they were living basically like. retirement community, like phase two, Sunrise Palms and phase eight, you know, whatever. >> Mhm. >> And they hated each other, too. But they. had friends that were friends with each. other. So, these these two Jewish. grandmothers. got connected via. their other Jewish grandmother friends. that I call the Yenta net. Like before. the internet, there was the Yenta net. These old Jewish grandmothers So, they. started talking talking talking about. Brian's at um. at Brown University. He's a scientist. And then the other one says, "Is Do you. know he's still alive?" "Oh, you know,

he's. Somehow my father finds out that not. only am I alive, I mean, he didn't know. But um but I'm studying math and science. and physics. And I'm in a top school. You know, Brown. University is obviously a great school. And uh one night in my in my dorm at. Brown uh I get a phone call. Pick up the. phone. And he goes, "This is Jim X.". And I Before he said Jim X, I knew it. was him. I knew his voice. I I don't know, Sean.

Sometimes the ear is deeper than the. eye. And so um. we talked for 5 hours straight. He was living in California. Yep. Everything. Math, science, physics. One. thing we avoided is why he abandoned me. But I was just so curious. It's like. Imagine if I gave you a book from your. great great great great grandfather. Like how much would you pay for that. book? By the way, you have to write a. book. If you don't write your memoir, you. know, someone else is going to write it. for you. And your great, great, great.

grandkids will want to read that book. Everyone's got to write a book, but. especially people like you. I mean, you've influenced millions. What's that? >> Not time yet for me. >> Not time, but but don't let it go too. far. And um I really hope you do because. you'll influence so many people to the. good as you've already done. And a book. is like I love your podcast, you know, do I ever go back and listen to like. episode like 14? No one's ever going to. You're not going to go back and listen. to it, right? But you can take all the. wisdom that you've distilled. Not just.

the not knowledge is like dirt. Knowledge is everywhere. Wisdom is. nowhere. Take that wisdom, put it in a book. That's all I'm saying. Your kids, your. future kids will Anyway, so he and I. talked for this whole time. Get back together. Finally, I'm like, "Wow, this guy has done so much. He's. still going. He's still hungry. Yeah, he's got all these flaws. But where do we go from here?". And I realized like. he had won all these awards as a. scientist. And I was like, I can't I don't know how to say it. I'm.

I'm really never talked about it, but I. wanted to make him. I'm really like embarrassed, but but I'm. going to say I wanted to make him regret. that he ever gave up on me. by doing what he never did, which is. winning a Nobel Prize. >> Makes sense. You want to make him proud. of you. >> I wanted to make him proud, but I wanted. to make him regret. A little bit of punishment for him. Even though I let him back into my life, and even though he got back with my. mother, you know, when they became.

friends. They didn't get back married or. anything. They became friends and bonded. over grandchildren um later on in life. Um and he died very young. He died 69. years old uh 20 years ago exactly. But between the time of graduate school. when I was 22 and when he died, I was. 33, 34. We became closer than any two sons I've. ever known. And during that time, I got incredibly. interested. Like I said, I want to make. him. some There must be a German word for it, like, you know, like Schadenfreude.

There must be some word for like. prideful regret. Uh but anyway, that's what I wanted. And. so, I invented I said, I got to find. something that's going to win the Nobel. Prize. And that's the highest award. I don't. care what it is, like Olympic gold, you. know, like Grammy Award winner, you. know, BET or whatever. I don't care what. it is, Signal Award, all the podcast. stuff you want. There's nothing like the Nobel Prize. There's only like 200 people on Earth. that are alive that have Nobel Prizes, kind of 8 billion people. Okay, they're. the intellectual, you know, seal, you.

know, seal team members, okay? They're. the brightest of the brightest of the. brightest, point, you know, 0.001% of. planet Earth. I want to be there, partially for, you. know, these. venal ambivalent reasons I had about. him, but but partially cuz I'm I'm just. so curious about the Earth and the world. and nature and science and God. And how they all mix together. And for. me, the way that was the ticket to do. all these things was [snorts] to build. an instrument to explore. Genesis 1:1. Like, how.

the heck did the universe come to be? Not just the aliens and the black holes. and the galaxies, but the universe. itself. And it's a dangerous thought because, you know, people have been killed for. this. People have been trot Now Now. days, we don't live in that kind of. environment. So, when we talk about the. government lies and so Okay, it is true. They probably do, and they they've done. a lot of bad stuff to a lot of friends. of mine as well. But, it's nothing in comparison to the. to the lack of freedom that Galileo had,

that, you know, Giordano [clears throat] Bruno had. Okay, nothing like that. I don't I'm not. going to compare myself to those people, right? I can do whatever I want. I have. tenure. I have brilliant graduate students, collaborators. I have resource funding, supporters, the government sponsor a lot. of stuff. I work at a public university. I don't get paid. Gavin Newsom's my. boss, you know. Lucky me. For a few more. months left at least. Um. So this all to say that I wanted to to. win a Nobel Prize at all costs. But that was fortuitous because I was.

also studying something that's. guaranteed to win a Nobel Prize if we. could do it. Which is to take a snapshot. of what happened before the Big Bang. Basically, before the universe started. off. in its incredibly. intricate and just phenomenal. acceleration and expansion. What caused. the Big Bang to bang? What's the primer. strike? What's the What's the inciting. incident that caused the explosion of. the universe? Nobody knew it. There were.

theories about it. And so I designed a telescope that. doesn't see light. It sees heat. It sees microwave. radiation. And that microwave radiation is all. around us. It suffuses the universe. And. it's the leftover heat from the fusion. nuclear fusion of the first elements, hydrogen and helium. And their isotopes. And that leftover heat. is a fossil. that travels through space and it. travels through time.

And we can detect it. And we can build instruments that can. sense it. And the specific signature that we see. will tell us. about the. conditions that were prevailing. during the first moments of the. universe's history before the expansion. that started to take over that we call. the Big Bang. And crucially, what. happened on the I guess it happened on a. Tuesday before the Big Bang. There was a. day, right? If you think back, today.

we're in, you know, May 2026. It's a. Tuesday. We can keep going back, back, back. We. think the universe is 13.826 billion. years old. Tiny little uncertainty. But we can keep going back, and let's. say the Big Bang occurred on a Tuesday, right? Let's just just by 24 hours * 365. * 13.826 billion years, right? You can. get a number. You can get a day. You can. get a calendar day on our calendar now. It doesn't mean the calendar existed. Earth didn't exist, right? But there's a day.

What happened the day before that? That's what we want to know. And for the. first time in human history, we could. possibly do it. Oh, and by the way, if I. did it, myself, my colleagues, maybe, would win. a Nobel Prize, and finally. get that comeuppance. that I so, you know, whatever. Um. my many failures, but but one of them. was that desire to. show up my dad. >> Wow.

So, where do we go from there? >> Well, it took me to the South Pole. It. took me to Antarctica. Um when you get. uh coffee and you put it in the. microwave in a ceramic cup, like your. awesome swag and merch outside that I. love. Um you pour it into a cup, right? You can put the coffee in the microwave. You can put it in there for 5 minutes. Don't do this at home. It's very. dangerous, actually. But you can. actually microwave it, and it'll get. above the boiling point of water, right? And then you can take the mug out. Just. you can just grab the mug. Why is that?

You got 300°, you know, uh Fahrenheit. water in there potentially, about to. explode. And the ceramic cup is it's room. temperature, basically. Why is that? Because ceramic. is completely dry. There's no water. It's been baked in an. oven for hours. That's what makes it. That's how you make ceramic, clay, and. stuff like that. Um the water in the coffee is not dry. It's wet. It's full of water. Microwaves.

from the microwave oven. jostle water at just the right frequency. and the resonant frequency that it. starts to vibrate and interact with. other water molecules, that's what. causes it to heat up. You can't heat up. something in a microwave that doesn't. have water in it. And that is tuned exactly for the. resonant frequency of water molecules. and that causes it to heat up. dramatically. Um so if you're trying to detect. microwaves. from a source. from a planet, from a galaxy, from the.

Big Bang itself. you want to go somewhere where there's. no water. Namely, you want to go somewhere very. high up. Maybe you could go to outer space. But that's very expensive to put a. rocket and satellite and a telescope in. space, very difficult, takes a long. time. It's been done, but only three. times. in all of human history have we had. satellites take pictures of the signal. from space. uh because of the cost and difficulty to. do that. And actually nowadays we can do. it almost better from the Earth, from.

the South Pole in Antarctica, where I've. been twice. And from Chile in the Atacama Desert, which is about 5,200 m above sea level, 17,000 ft. So high up. that you have to wear oxygen full-time. in your nose cuz you're above half the. atmospheric water pressure. You're at a. flight level 180 for my pilot friends. Um infrared radiation is cooking you. There's huge equipment that can kill. you, bulldozers, people drive off roads. There's not like the same kind of road. safety that we have. Don't have it down.

there. Um it's like being on the planet Mars. In fact, NASA uses it as a test place to. test out lunar rovers and lunar. helicopter Martian helicopters and. Martian rovers. Oh, before I forget. this. I won't send to your viewers, but. um being on Mars. Uh this is a piece of Mars. This is the actual planet Mars. It's a meteor that came from the planet. Mars. It was knocked off by a bigger chunk of.

an asteroid, blasted into space, orbited around the Earth for probably 20. million years, and landed in Northwest. Africa. >> Wow. >> Okay? So, this here you can actually. touch. >> How do you know that? >> Um so, the chemistry and the um and the. spectra and the the spectrum that it. reflects when we analyze it is 100%. match for the for Martian rovers that. have been there, like the ones I was. just uh talking about.

So, this is a gift for you. Pretty rare. And you can see it. It has little bits. of like See the little bits of like. orangeish flakes? Metal. That's iron. The reason Mars is. red is cuz it's basically rusting. It. has iron and iron rusts. It oxidizes, and those little specs in there are. iron. So, that's a another planet. taken uh millions of years to get here. And here's a cover for it. I have a. certificate.

for you that I'll give you later on that. tells you all about its properties uh. and so forth. So, to test out before we. send a Martian rover, they send it to. the Atacama Desert where we have the. Simons Observatory. So, you ask, "Where do we go from here?". So, we built this instrument in um. starting in 2005. that was meant to do just one thing, to. take an image of the baby picture of the. universe. All this light in the universe. is called the cosmic microwave. background radiation.

It's the heat that's left over when you. do nuclear fusion or fission, heat is. given off. When that heat is given off and the. universe expands, it cools off. It red. shifts and dilutes, gets less energetic, and now we see it instead of being gamma. rays or ultraviolet light, we see it in. the form of microwaves. Long wavelength. radiation, characteristic wavelength is. about 2 mm. It corresponds to about 150. gigahertz. This radiation was discovered. for the first time in 1965. um outside of New York City by two. astronomers, Penzias and Wilson, and.

they went on to win the Nobel Prize in. physics. And this discovery. uh was so significant because it was the. first physical evidence. In other words, not just philosophical or theoretical, oh the universe could be expanding, it. was proof that the universe was once in. an extremely hot and dense state. Mhm. Um and that can only be possible. to create nuclear fusion, which creates. the the hydrogen that's in the water. that you're drinking. Uh it creates the.

helium that we have in balloons and. other and other uses for. So, the. elements in the periodic table are made. during the Big Bang, but when you fusion. occurs, heat is left over. We still see. that heat to this day. So, what we're looking for is that heat. in. >> you still see the heat to this day? >> So, when uh the universe starts to. expand, um everything gets stretched out. There are galaxies. Galaxies are now. moving away from each other. Things on. Earth don't get stretched apart. Things. in our solar system don't get stretched.

apart. Even things in our galaxy don't. get stretched apart. They're held. together by gravity, but anything. beyond, say the Andromeda galaxy and. beyond, is actually expanding away from. us. Space itself is expanding. Space, according to Einstein, is dynamic. It's. not static as Isaac Newton showed. He. said, "No, the space is dynamic. The. more energy you put into it, the more. space expands.". And so, originally Einstein, you know, didn't believe in the Big Bang. He felt. the Big Bang was not well justified. He. thought it was um it was completely. wrong, and he thought it smacked of.

religion. Actually, Einstein was not. religious. He he didn't He spoke about. God sometimes, but he he didn't really. believe in God the way that we would. think of it. And he said um. uh that the universe is not expanding, it's static. And the only way that he. could get that to be the the case is if. he in inserted into his equations this. fudge factor that kept the universe from. collapsing on itself. And that expansion we now find is. actually going in reverse. It's not only. not static, it's not only not collapsing, it's. actually expanding at an accelerating.

rate. It's like pushing on the cosmic. accelerator pedal. It's not a constant. velocity. Every galaxy is moving away, and tomorrow the rate of moving away. will be bigger than it was today. That's the heart of the Big Bang. concept. Meaning that if you reverse. that, everything gets closer together. So, galaxies will be closer in the past, and eventually you reach a point where. all the galaxies in the universe are all. touching, and all the matter in the universe is in. one point, and that point is thought to. be a singularity, and that point of.

singularity. is the Big Bang in the Big Bang concept. Doesn't tell you anything about how the. Big Bang started though. Just says once. the Big Bang occurred, the universe. started expanding and and accelerating, and we should see evidence for it. scientifically, and we do. We see. tremendous amounts of evidence. There's. zero doubt that the universe is. expanding. Um and there's some doubt about how fast. it's expanding. That's another subject. But, no one disagrees, no cosmic police. officer with a radar going to say, "Nope, you're static or you're.

collapsing." Nope, the universe is. expanding. And so, there are signatures of that. expansion everywhere, like a radar. Doppler shift. But, of all the galaxies. that we see in the universe, and in fact. of all the heat and radiation we see in. the universe as well. And the type of radiation that we look. for is called the cosmic microwave. background, and the best place to look for it is at. the South Pole, Antarctica, or in the. mountains of Chile. So, I have two. different experiments that I've been. involved with. One is BICEP, the. uh which is an acronym, uh Background.

Imager of Cosmic Extragalactic. Polarization. And in 2014, we claimed we saw that. primer strike that ignited the Big Bang. So, we claimed we did the thing that I. wanted to do to show up my father, to. win a Nobel Prize, and you know, spoiler. alert, you know, my first book's called. Losing the Nobel Prize. So, something went wrong. Something went really wrong. Uh. we we made a claim that we saw what. caused the universe to begin its. expansion.

And that's a type of quantum field. We call that quantum field the inflaton. or the inflationary field. And we said we detected the shrapnel of. the explosion, basically. Um. if you want to detect something, like. you hear someone on the range shooting, right? Um you could you could detect. that they're shooting in a variety of. different ways, right? Visually, you could detect it um. you could detect the sonic, you know, impact of it. Um you could have. eyewitnesses to it. You could have.

photographic cameras watching it. You. could have infrared. You could even. have, you know, some particles inside. the the uh potassium inside of. gunpowder, um potassium uh 40. It's. radioactive. So, you could actually see. the dispersion. of the smoke cloud of radioactive. potassium, and you could detect. neutrinos, muons, other things coming. I'm making this up. I mean, it's true. that you could do do that. I'm just. saying there's more than one way to skin. a cat, right? So, there's more than one. way to detect something if you can't see. it. So, we've devised these different types.

of tools and technology to see things. that we could not have possibly. witnessed, namely the origin of the. universe. Like, there are no people. there. There are not even any stars or. galaxies or planets or aliens or. anything there, right? It was the origin. of energy and matter itself. But, what caused it? If this theory called inflation is. right, there would be a signature, like smoke. from the gun, called gravitational radiation, waves of. ripples in space-time. You and Avi Loeb. spoke about what space-time is.

Space-time is interconnectedness of all. different events that could possibly. occur. in the entire observable universe, back. to the beginning of time. And so we're looking for the earliest. shock waves. that would come with the explosive. expansion of space. And those are called gravitational. waves. We look for them in the CMB in. this cosmic microwave background and we. said on St. Patrick's Day 2014 at a. press conference at Harvard that was led. off by Avi Loeb made the introduction.

I wasn't there. I had been. unceremoniously removed from the the. leadership of the team that I had first. started. That's that's another story. But. but the the announcement made headlines. around the world. New York Times, CNN, my hometown. newspaper. And at that moment I had been a little. bit unsure. about the. real veracity of the results if they. would hold up in court, you know, sort.

of a scientific court of law. or if we had seen things that. masqueraded as the signal that you want. to see. Richard Feynman again, Feynman point 762. digits into pi six sixes in a row. He said the. the first principle in science. is that you shouldn't fool yourself. But the second principle in science is. that you should think that you're the. easiest person to fool. It's like you're at a poker table, you don't know who the the patsy is, you're the patsy, right? Scientists.

should always think that he or she is. the patsy, that he's going to make a. mistake and then do everything in their. power to resist that temptation to make. an announcement that could win a Nobel. Prize or whatever and do every sort of. due diligence check you could do. possible. And we thought we did, but we. missed one crucial element that there. was a type of signal. that comes from the cosmos. It comes. from our galaxy in fact, but it doesn't. come from the Big Bang. It's exactly related to these. meteorites. Again,

bronkey.com/. SRS if you have an APO address. These meteorites. are actually the corpses of dead stars. When a star above a certain mass. explodes, eight times the mass of our sun, it explodes out and it's a it's a. a fusion bomb. that goes off in space. with the equivalent tonnage of, you. know, trillions and trillions and. trillions of Hiroshima bombs. It's eight.

solar masses converted to energy via E =. mc squared. When it does that, the reason it does. that is because it's trying to make this. material, iron and nickel. >> Okay. >> When a star fuses. um oxygen, silicon together to make. iron, everything else before it gets to iron. gives off more heat than it takes in. The fusion reaction always gives off. heat, but the heat that's given off when. it makes iron is too insignificant to.

keep the star afloat. So, the star runs out of pressure. and collapses. And then it detonates out in a. shockwave. In 1 half a second, a star that's been. living for 2 20 million years ends its. life in half a second in a nuclear. fusion implosion that blows out into the. whole universe. the last thing that it made in its core, which is iron. That's why this is iron. Guess what else is iron?

Hemoglobin. Your blood. right now has the same iron isotope as. this meteorite. >> Mhm. >> Why is that? Well, your mother lived on Earth, she ate food. on the Earth, she's made of bi- human. biologics, right? Not Not David Grusch's. non-human. She's made of Hopefully your. mom's not a Thetan or whatever they they. talk about. So, she ate food, food is. made from the Earth. The Earth has iron. in it because it came from a explosion.

from a supernova. So, if this supernova. didn't blow up 4.3 4.5 billion years. ago, we wouldn't have this iron. So, this iron is older than the Earth. It. became part of our molten iron core. and our solid iron core, and it became. part of our food chain, and it's in the. blood that we bleed. We all bleed the. same iron that came from a supernova. >> Wow. >> So, >> Wow. >> these meteorites float around in space, and it turns out that they can actually. mimic the signal that would have. represented the primer strike to ignite.

the Big Bang. So, we got tricked into believing we saw. the Big Bang, but really saw a bunch of. meteorites, basically. >> With summer travel, even learning a few. real phrases can completely change the. experience. You're not just pointing at. a menu or hoping someone speaks English. You can order food, ask for directions, and actually connect with people a. little more when you're there. That's. why I like Babbel. Me and the team have. been using it for travel because it's. built for real-life conversations, not.

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restrictions may apply. >> What do you think happened? The day before? >> Well, So, I always say things like, you know, people say, um, Do you believe in God? You know, I've heard you I have I heard you talk. to my mutual friend Andrew Huberman. You know, became a Christian, right? He believes in God. Actually, he was a. little perturbed at Andrew. I told him. later when I was on his show. But, like a scientist shouldn't say I. believe in something.

Okay? So, in Hebrew, the the the, you. know, the word for faith is is in Hebrew. emunah. Emunah is where we get the English word. amen. It means I believe. It means I. have faith, right? Say amen. In Hebrew, that word means. uh it means faith. Doesn't mean belief. Belief is a different word. Just like it. is in English, right? I would say I don't believe in God, right? Right? I don't believe in. gravity, either. If I take this, it.

drops. according to the laws of Isaac Newton. This is. a law. I have evidence for gravity. So, I don't have to say like, do I. believe in something? I should say I. should look for evidence of something. Again, I'm not saying this for. everybody, but I'm a scientist. I don't want to say I believe in God. I. want to say I have evidence for God. Which is stronger? You believe in God or. you have evidence for God? Now, you may. believe that you have evidence for God. Jesus may be.

enough have crossed the evidentiary. threshold for you. Many people it has. Um, I'm obviously Jewish, so it's not. the same theology. But, but in fact, we have things that we. say we believe in, and then we have. things we say we know. And that. distinction I think is really important. So, you ask me, "What do I believe. happened?". Or what do I think happened? I I. that question to a scientist is anathema. because we don't we don't want to be. prejudiced to that. That's what got us. into trouble with this experiment. We. believe we saw the signal that would.

give Brian Keating an Nobel Prize, right? I mean, that wasn't the only. goal. But that's where that's where you get. into trouble as a scientist. >> We must think about it. >> Do. I do, yeah. >> Do you have any evidence. for what may have happened the day. before? [clears throat]. >> like what you and I talked about with. aliens, right? So, so we don't have any. evidence for it. The universe, again, is like the most. undefeated. you know, the movie 300, I was watching. that, you know, like imagine like Xerxes. versus you know,

what's his name? Theodorus or Leopoldus. or whatever. Like 300 versus an in. infinite number, right? Um Xerxes is like Mother Nature, like. just an infinite army. It completely. unstoppable technological Mother Nature. doesn't give up her secrets. But like, you know, like uh. like Gerald Butler, you know, in that. movie, a small group of dedicated people can. make great gains, right? I'm trying to. get more and more evidence for both. believing, you know, what I want to.

believe to be true or what I hope to be. true both in science and in religion. If but I'm not I am under no illusions. that A, God cares if I believe in him or. not, just like gravity. You jump out of a plane without a. parachute, you know, I always say, "You. don't need a parachute to skydive, right? You only need a parachute if you. want to skydive a second time." Like, I. believe in gravity, you know, to the. same extent that I need to, but I have. evidence for gravity. I want to feel. that way same way about God. So, what are the options? Just as you.

and I talked about with aliens. Aliens could be real, interdimensional, non-biological beings, or whatever, right? They could be AIs traversing the. cosmos in at light speed. Um they could. be, you know, Chinese. uh sciops. They could be German like. Louis Alvarez playing around with the. Germans' minds, breaking the laws of. physics. Um, they could be a sci-op by the. government. They could be a mass. delusion or hysteria. Or they could be. really truly. masters of interdimensional travel.

Okay? Those are different hypotheses. Now we have to go through each one. evidentiary. What's the chain and and so. forth. For cosmology, same thing. There are alternatives to the Big Bang. The Big Bang posits that at one moment. in time, time came into existence. You couldn't ask what happened the day. before. That makes no sense. That's like saying, go to the South Pole. with me next time and go south. You know what happens when you go south. from the South Pole at the South Pole? You go north. There's no such thing. It doesn't exist.

Some say that's just Stephen Hawking. believed that. There's no time before the Big Bang. Others say. that a competitor of theory is the. universe existed before the Big Bang. and collapsed and crunched just like the. supernova that collapsed and crunched to. form our supernova. That big crunch led. to the Big Bang. Another one says an interdimensional. concept called string theory. that existed in higher dimensions than.

we exist in, 10-dimensional string. theory. domain, that two different types of what. are called membranes came together and. ignited our what we call the observable. Big Bang. Another theory says we exist in a. multiverse. which just as there's more than one. planet, there's more than one star, there's more than one galaxy, there's. more than one cluster of galaxies, why. shouldn't there be more than one. universe? >> What do you think about that? >> So that's a Let me just get to the last. >> Okay. >> the last topic. Um, and then there's a.

final topic, which is that the universe. didn't have a Big Crunch. and singularity. It's just been slowly. over time interacting, expanding, and. collapsing, expanding, and collapsing. like a breathing of a of of a lung, okay? Coming into and out of creation. and and producing things. Now, as a scientist, we can't prove something. >> [snorts]. >> Um. we cannot prove that the universe had a. big bang. We also.

strangely enough, we can't prove the Earth is round. I don't know if you're aware of this. We can't prove that the Earth is round, okay? >> I've had this discussion many times. >> [laughter]. >> Now, that's something people say, "I. believe the Earth is round. I believe. the Earth is flat." I always joke, there. are people that believe the Earth is. flat all around the globe, you know? It's. You'll find them everywhere, Sean. But in reality, you can show that the Earth is not flat,

but you can't show that it is curved. Do. you understand the difference? You can. prove something wrong in science, but. you can't prove something is right. >> Mhm. >> You can't prove something is right. I. can say I have evidence for evolution, and there are competing theories of. evolution that existed. Um but they've been falsified, proven. wrong. And if you can't prove something is. wrong, or if you can't at least expose. it to the opportunity of it being wrong, then it's not science, right? Astrology. When I was dating my wife,

we went to the. you know, downtown Mission Mission. Beach, San Diego, you know, they have a. boardwalk, and they had a fortune. teller. And she's like, "Oh, let's tell. our see our fortune, see if we're. compatible.". You know, I'm like, she's an English. major, you know? Like, [laughter] she. uh fine, I'm you know, I really love. this girl, I want to marry her or. something. I'm going to play around with. it even though it's anathema to. everything I believe to go through a. astrologist. So, she the astrologist. sits down and says, "You know, what's. your sign?" And you know, I say, um. Gemini.

And uh she go, "Oh, okay. Um. you know, here are these different. things and your personality and your. your moon sign and your sun sign and. this thing and this thing. And then I. said, oh, thank you very much. And then, you know, my future wife, my my my. girlfriend at the time, oh, very, you. know, it's really good. She's Everything. sounded really good. Like we're. compatible and everything. And I got up. and I. just to be a dick, you know, >> [laughter]. >> I said, um I just want to confirm I'm. I'm born in September. Um. That's Gemini, right? And she said, no, no, no, that's Virgo. But the same things are going to happen.

to you anyway. In other words, it didn't matter what I. said. It didn't matter what evidence I. gave her. It was unfalsifiable. It was. irrefutable. That's not science. That's. fun, you know, it's card trick. Uh you know, it's entertaining. She made. her 50 bucks or whatever. And we're. still married 18 years later. But to me, the the the prospect that you. will not submit your theory to to. falsification. And that's some of the problem I have. with Avi Loeb. Okay, I love Avi Loeb. But I said to Avi Loeb on my podcast.

when he came on for his first book, um I said, Avi, you believe that. Oumuamua is extraterrestrial. It's like. the title of your book, right? You. believe it came from another solar. system. You believe it's technological. Remember he told you he thinks it's a. thin solar sail. >> Mhm. >> Technological. Only technology can build. a solar sail that captures solar wind. from another star, directed from where. we don't know, but to where we do know. cuz it came through our solar system. Was it intentional? Was it. unintentional? He thinks it's. could be like a garbage barge or. something like that. And I don't know. why you put like, you know, your your.

your trash bin on a solar sail and send. it out into the universe rather than. just crash into the nearest sun. But. let's just say he's right. I said, Avi, you always brag to me and. you're lucky you're at Harvard. University, you know, where everyone's. above average and we should talk about. Harvard and and Jeffrey Epstein at some. point. But uh um and Avi's not involved with. any of that, by the way. Uh but I said, you know, Harvard, everyone's above. average or and and you happen to have. access to these, you know, copious. supply of billionaires. And everyone, [snorts]. you know, loves the Harvard imprimatur.

You say Harvard, and that's part of the. reason Avi gets a lot of the attention. he gets, but also a lot of the hate that. he gets. People, you know, and he's one. of the most legitimate scientists, published 757 different articles in. scientific peer-review journals, multiple books. You know, the guy works. hard, you know, when I'm interviewing. him some. Sometimes Avi, show me your hands. It's. like, "What? What, Brian? What am I. supposed to do?" I said, "I want to make. sure you're not writing a book while. we're talking." You know, he's so. productive. I mean, he's off the charts. Okay, but I said, "Avi, you have access. to these billionaires.

Imagine that Oumuamua, at the time, it's. the first object ever to come from. another technological solar system like. the Earth. And you know a billionaire who can fund. a rocket to send a telescope to go catch. up with it.". And he said, as he told you, "Um no, Brian, we'll wait for the Vera. Rubin telescope to come online, and it. will capture many of these." I said, "Avi, you're happily married, even. longer than I am. Imagine like you're with your wife.

You don't know she's going to be your. wife. You're dating her or or maybe she. You just see her in the coffee shop. Or. he met her on a blind date, I think he. told you, right? And it's a blind date, and like you're. with her, and you're like, "Oh, she's. really nice, but I think someone. better's going to come along soon. You know, how do I know someone better's. not going to come along, you know, Brian?". And And I said, "You would do anything.". This Avi now would do anything to that. Avi say, "Shut up, you idiot. Ask her. out. Keep going on a date with her, cuz. you're going to have two beautiful. daughters with her, and you're going to. have a life of happiness and love.".

But he's saying the opposite. He's. saying, "No, I'll just wait till the. next one comes along." I said, "Avi, I. don't know. Do you really believe this. is this is as technologically advanced. as you say it is? Cuz to me, Sean, I. would do anything. If I thought with as much faith and. confidence as Avi does that these are. extraterrestrial technology, I would do anything, especially if I had. access to a couple billionaires and the. endowment of Harvard University. >> Mhm. So we look to falsify things, not to. prove things. And that that was kind of. the tangent we just got off of.

>> It's hard to ask questions for people to. think like that. Do you. even though. with everything that you just said, you. still have to think about it. You still. have to think is there is there a. multiverse? >> No, you're right to press me on that. >> You know, and so what. like what goes through your head? Without without making assumptions or I. mean what are the. what are the what are the ideas? What. are the. >> So this might make people uncomfortable.

I approach it. again as a scientist and I'm candid. I'm. one of the few scientists that's openly. religious. You know, that it that. practices his religion, takes his. religion seriously, you know, learned. Hebrew at age 30. It wasn't easy to. learn Hebrew at age 30. Um you know, I married someone who's. Jewish, which is important thing for the. continuity of the Jewish people in my in. my experience I learned in Israel. Um I. I take my God and my religion and my. faith seriously. I don't work on. Saturdays. You know, one thing when you. were talking to Andrew I started to go.

off on a side quest here, but you know. Andrew Huberman, world expert on sleep. and you and you guys were talking about. cannabis and you're talking about um. gummies and you're talking about vaping. and everything else. And I said, "I know what Shawn needs.". And it's it's not it's not it's not a. product. It's it's called the Sabbath. You know, we just had this national Sabbath down. at Camp Ramah. Do you work as much as I think you work? Do you work 7 days a week pretty much? >> Pretty close. >> I see it in you. And it's no surprise. I mean this this.

studio is amazing. I mean first of all I. have to say, this is the second most. number of guns I've ever been around on. a podcast after the Mayim Bialik. podcast. That's a joke. I'm just She's. she's the girl who played Blossom and um. was on The Big Bang Theory. Uh this is. the most And the most impressive studio, you know, I've been on. really nice podcasts. Um, I've been. blessed to be on them. You've created this this huge empire and. it's no secret that your hard work, your. work ethic, probably genetically, this. is something you're like destined to do.

Um, but the one unlock that maybe you. haven't and just pretty humble. I'm I'm. trying to be humble. I'm not a medical doctor. I'm not even. like Andrew, you know, who's in the bio. But the one thing that saved my life is. taking one day off a week. It's a Sabbath for me. It's a Saturday. for you. It could be a Sunday. I don't do email. I don't I don't I don't do podcasts. If. you invited me here, I think actually I. was supposed to come two days from now. It's a holiday two days from now in the. Jewish calendar called Shavuot, which. means Pentecost in English. We call it.

Pentecost. It's a It's a biblical. holiday. I'm not allowed to work on that. holiday. And so I said I can't make it. Uh, and. then but luckily, you know, Laura and. Sarah, you're all amazing team, is just. so excellent um, and elite for real. But I wouldn't have done it. As much as. this is a great opportunity for me, Sean, I wouldn't have done it because I. want to be with my God. I want to be. with my wife. I want to be with my kids, my community, my family. I want to. dedicate 1/7 of my life to something. other than.

achievement and like Nobel Prizes and. emails and Slack messages. And I'm not saying it's a panacea. But I know like I knew Charlie Kirk a. little bit through my relationship with. Dennis Prager and Jordan Peterson and. um, and he had his most recent book. which he dedicates to Dennis Prager for. introducing him to and it's about the. keeping of the Sabbath for Christians. And it's been a huge It was a huge. unlock for him. It was literally the. last thing he ever wrote. And his wife. put it out posthumously. So,

I just want you to consider it. But for. me, I This is all big disclaimer. Maybe. it's a little too, you know, legalistic. or professorial for me to do this. But I want to say that I take my. religion seriously. But, that doesn't mean I'm not. okay with with accepting everything the. way it is. In Hebrew, the word Israel. means to fight with God. Yisra means struggle, El means God.

Do you know what Islam means? >> Mhm. >> Islam means submission to God. Those are two different very different. approaches, right? To submit to God and. and they're they're valid, right? I'm. not going to say which one is which. And. Christianity is is somewhere in the. middle, right? There's there's. acceptance of Jesus as a personal savior. who died for your sins and absolves you. of those sins. Um and and God gave his only son, according to Christianity, for your. sins. For you, for your personal God. Cuz in Judaism, we don't have that. concept. But, that's okay. We're. different religions, that's fine. Otherwise, we'd all be one religion.

But, Yisra means to struggle with God, to fight with God. And. if I don't ask questions and subject. God, in some sense, not to prove him. wrong, not to say, you know, like I'm. better than God. As most of my 93% of my. colleagues don't believe in God at all. So, I'm in the 7%. I I think it's. probably even smaller than that now. You. asked Avi about that, and he kind of. gave you a little wishy-washy answer. As much as I love Avi, I don't I wasn't satisfied with that.

answer. But, for me, if I can't question God, if I can't ask for evidence, if I can't demand some level of. scientific rigor. in my approach to it, I don't feel authentic to who I am. So, I gave you that whole preamble about. how seriously I take God and religion, the Sabbath, and why I recommend it to. so many people. Um. but, I'm also going to approach it. scientifically. So, what do I hope. in science? Do I hope there's a. multiverse? Do I hope there's Part of. that's connected to my attempt.

to. inculcate my science with religion? To get a sense of, can we test. claims in the Bible, in my case the. Torah, the Old Testament, can I test. them scientifically? Can you test them in a lab? Could you test them with a telescope? Obviously, there's some connection. between them. Right? Otherwise, Galileo wouldn't have. been imprisoned by the church, and Bruno. wouldn't have been burned alive, as we. already said, right? Copernicus. published his his theory that the Earth.

is not the center of the universe or the. the the Earth is not the center of the. universe. He published that the day he. died, because he knew he would probably. be tortured, and look what happened a. couple years later to Bruno and Galileo, right? So, God and science and cosmology, they. go hand in hand. For me, I've made it kind of. an interesting quest, because those. different models that I explained to. you, the steady state static universe, the big crunch universe, the multiverse. universe, um.

and um and the uh the the slow expansion. universe, those are four models of what could have. came before the Big Bang. One of them says nothing. One of them says we live in a multiverse. that's eternal and has existed for all. time. One of them says the universe is slowly. changing and modulating, but is eternal, and one says the universe came into time. at a specific moment for a specific. reason caught by a specific cause.

That one sounds the most like Genesis. 1:1, right? >> Hm. >> In the beginning. It doesn't say, "After. the Big Crunch." It doesn't say, like, "In the multiverse, you know, God. created the uni No, it says, "In the. beginning.". In Hebrew, it actually. >> like that means there's nothing before. that. >> That's right. So, what is that? You just. projected onto exactly what I'm. attempting to do. You constructed a. scientific hypothesis that's open to. falsification. Okay, pause that. Think about what you just said.

That prove That suggests that there's a. beginning. What if we find there's not a beginning, whatever that means? That has just falsified. that theory. Call it Genesis theory. Call it Ryan theory, whatever you want. You could falsify it. Guess what? You just did. You proved. that's part of science. To me, that's exhilarating. That means I can investigate whether or. not the Big Bang occurred, whether or not time came into existence, versus whether or not we live in a.

multiverse. I can investigate that and get paid by. the Regents of the State University of. California. I can do it. I would do it for free, by. the way, though. Gavin, if you're. watching, I know you're watching, Gavin. You've got a podcast. You want to be. like Sean. Um. I would do it for free, but please, you. know, let me keep my salary. The point is, you just suggested a. scientific hypothesis that could be. refuted. It's falsifiable. Therefore, by the. rules that we explicated earlier, it's a. scientific question. There's nothing wrong with asking. questions, seeking proof. Which would.

you rather have, Sean? Belief. that Jesus existed? Can you prove that. Jesus existed? Can you prove it? >> Can I prove it? >> Yeah. >> No. >> Can you think it could be proven by. somebody, you know, a billion a hundred. Avi Loebs or you know, someone just off. the charts? >> Maybe. >> Maybe, but maybe not. Maybe it's not. provable. Does that mean that you shouldn't. believe in Jesus? Of course not. Of. course not. To take away someone's religion is.

almost impossible. As anyone who's ever. had a Jehovah's Witness come to their. house and knock on the door or Mormon. say like we'd like to tell you about. Right? Guess who hates to take their. religion away most of all? Atheists. You tell an atheist, most scientists, like. your religion, {quote} {unquote}, is more dogmatic than any Christian I've. ever met in my life. Oh, come on. They're just, you know, patsies or whatever. They don't even know. that seeking the questions of the type. that you and I just discussed is.

perfectly kosher, is perfectly. acceptable. in the context and domain of scientific. reasoning. Would you rather have I bet it doesn't. matter to you cuz you do have a strong. faith. But if someone said here is proof like. you know the Shroud of Turin or or. there's you know we found some some. eyewitness estimate or he's found. physical evidence that proves not only. that Jesus existed but that he was. resurrected and that he was ascended.

And this is irrefutable. proof. of the claims of the Gospels. And I said here Sean here's a book. Do. you want to read that book that has all. this evidence? >> Yeah of course. >> Yeah of course you're a curious person. There are people that wouldn't want to. read that book. There are people who would read the book. but it doesn't matter to them. There's a famous story in uh. Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. Uh a lot of Jews perished there and some. were rabbis. And. in 1943 I believe they were doing uh.

um. they they decided they would hold a. trial and put God on trial. They said should God have created. humanity if. it leads to Holocaust, genocides, and. killing. And they put God on trial. These rabbis they had prosecution and. defense. The overwhelming evidence from the. rabbis and the jury. was that God was guilty. And God never should have created the.

world. And you know what they did the very next. minute? They said let's go for the afternoon. prayers. Hm. In other words some people didn't. matter. Doesn't matter if you have. physical evidence. Doesn't matter if you have scientific. evidence. Their faith is is unshakeable and. finally I salute that. I'm weaker than that. [clears throat] I. don't I don't have that ability Shawn. >> I think it is uh similar. I mean, you're trying to. I mean, the how would you word it? Disprove. You You cannot disprove.

Jesus's existence. >> or God. >> or God's. >> Mhm. >> You know, I don't I wouldn't assume. That's why I didn't I don't assume, but. I mean, that's probably the same with. parts of Judaism and parts of Islam. You. cannot disprove it. >> Right. >> You know, but. you also cannot prove it. >> Exactly, no. >> And so, it all comes down to faith. >> Exactly. >> Why did you go from I mean, we know why. you went from Judaism to Catholicism.

Why did you go back to Judaism? Is it. because of your father? >> No, it was because of uh it was actually. cuz of 9/11. >> It's cuz of 9/11? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, 9/11 happened. I was 28, 29, something like that. And I had been in. the Catholic Church, you know, the the. previous religion, you know, kind of. experience I had was the Catholic. Church, which I loved, as I said. Um I had difficulty with with the. leadership at the Pope level in the. Vatican and stuff. But, putting that. aside, and then I was, you know, college, kind of.

I'm so smart, I'll be an atheist, right? Uh like all my teachers and then my, you. know, and my colleagues. And then 9/11 happened, and I was like, you know what? I know a lot about uh. Christianity and Catholicism from having. practiced it for six or seven, eight. years, being an altar boy, wanting to. become a priest. Um everyone was an expert on Islam, you. know, at after 9/11, right? Um. and. I realized I knew nothing about the. religion that I was born into.

And I felt uh ashamed. I couldn't read. Hebrew. You know, I I didn't I never read the. Bible. Uh you know, the Old Testament. Oh, yeah, I read the Gospels cuz I was. Catholic, right? Very rarely do we go. back and read the Old Testament, at. least in the church that I was an altar. boy in. And so, I knew nothing about the Old. Testament, the Torah. I couldn't read. it. I felt embarrassed, you know, I. didn't know how to do that. And I was. like, why does. why is there this. antipathy towards Jews and towards.

you know, Judeo-Christian, you know, society and civilization? Why is there this conflict? I knew. nothing about it. Um, and so I realized that. I'd stopped all my learning when I was. 13 about religion. And most of the people that you talk to. who are scientists, especially Jewish. scientists, who are almost all atheists, um, the last time they encountered. religion was on their Bar Mitzvah at age. 13. And for many of them, it's like a.

graduation from prison, you know, like. they're they're released. They no longer. have to go to a temple anymore. They no. longer have to sit and learn this. archaic language that's spoken on. exactly 0.2% of the world's population. Like, who the hell needs this when I can. do whatever I want. Plus, Hanukkah really sucks compared to. Christmas. You know, you ask me about Do. I miss it? Yeah, totally. I mean. So, you know, the the negative exposure that. you get at age 13, that then carries.

through these geniuses like Steven. Pinker and and and even, you know, Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins. I've hosted most famous atheists a lot, right? Wrote the, you know, uh, The God. Delusion and and uh. uh, just incredible intellect, but. incredible atheists. They don't have the. most basic level that my kids have. about what the Bible actually says, what. it means. They just project onto it. making it into a straw man which they.

can then ignite. >> Mhm. >> Okay? I felt as a legitimate scholar and. intellectual, I wanted to have a conversant level with. the Bible, with the Old Testament in my. case, at at least the same level that I. have of quantum mechanics. Why should you say that you don't? Because it's easier? Like, oh, anybody. can believe Look, Sean Ryan doesn't have. a PhD. He didn't go to college, right? You were in the teams, you want to. right? Oh, Sean He knows it. So, you. know, but like he doesn't know quantum. mechanics. So, doesn't that show you.

that it's not that hard to believe in. God? I I I think these are so infantile, these arguments and the and the vitriol. that people have towards believers in. the scientific in the academic community. in the elite. Let me take a one pause for you for 1. second. You're familiar with the following. statement made by President Eisenhower. He said, um there's a danger. I want you to finish the sentence. of a military. >> industrial complex. >> Okay.

Before he says those words, he says, there's a danger of a. scientific. You're not going to know it. >> Mhm. >> I didn't know it till very recently. Before he mentions the military. industrial complex and its dangers, which you can testify to as well as. anybody, he speaks about the the horrors that'll. be inflicted upon society, should we. fall captive to a scientific technical. elite. What is he talking about? Professors. Academia.

You don't know You didn't go to college, Sean. You can't talk to me about about. aliens and COVID and disclosure and No, no, no, you can't. It's [ __ ]. The the disdain that that the ivory. tower has for ordinary. lay people and and and people that. didn't go to college, it it. it's a dirty little secret. that we don't talk about cuz it makes us. look venal, it makes us look. pathetic. It makes us deserving the ire. and therefore if you get ire, you get.

attention, and then they might take away. our tenure and our tuition increases. that go faster than an. We don't want you guys to look that. close at us. That's the scientific. technical elite. I Eisenhower warned. against that in the same breath as the. military industrial complex. You never. hear about the former, you only hear. about the latter. Why is that? I don't know. People worship college. College is a secular idol. that even the most atheistic people. worship at. It's a sign that I'm a good parent. I My.

kid goes to Vanderbilt. My kid goes to UC San Diego. It's a sign that you did a good job as a. parent. According to who? According to. secular society. But that's a danger. So, getting back to you know, kind of. this this original part where we went. off on this quest. a few minutes ago. I I think that. there's. it's it's completely legitimate to to. think about these things and to and to. try to approach them with scientific. rigor and to have mutual respect and.

commodity. Not comedy, but commodity, where you can. respect the person that you maybe don't. necessarily agree with. And so for me, you know, I'm there's actually a lot. more Christians in the world than there. are Jews. But I want to get back to an. understanding what's called first. principles thinking. Once I just say, what are the base roots. of Christianity? What are the challenges to Christianity? You know, there challenges to. Christianity, and I'm sure you know,

uh the gospels aren't you know, they're. they're. they they they themselves are the and. and that's what gives them intellectual. honesty. They admit there's certain. things that they cannot explain. Right? Miracles that Jesus did. Did they say, "Well, scientifically, if you take the. quantum mechanical structure of water, you can No. They said, "We don't understand it.". But that's what faith means. But I don't want to only have faith. I would like to have proof. Mhm. Can I. convert a faith question into a proof.

question? That's what I want to do. >> That's the full as hell. >> What's that? >> A faith question. into a. >> Did God create the universe? Well, if the if the if if the if the Old. Testament says something and it's. compatible. with observation, that's not proof, but. it's evidence. If the if the Torah if the Old Testament. says. um. the universe came into existence in the. beginning, the actual Hebrew word Hebrew is a very.

rich language and the actual it says. with beginningness. Like in other words, God not only. created the universe according to Hebrew. and the Torah, he created the concept of. the beginningness of something. It's amazing when you think about it. Like gives me chills. It's so much deeper than we get when. we're kids. Like the problem is we learn. religion when you're like kid and I went. to Sunday school and I hated it and. you're like nobody likes it. But if you approach it as I did as an. adult at age 30 after 9/11.

or 28 or whatever I was, it's much richer because you approach it. with the full arsenal of the tools and. the weapons that I've developed as a. scientist. >> Mhm. >> And therefore, that which I can prove, verify, attempt, or fail to prove. will have a lot more sticking power and. give me a lot more ironically faith. >> The best investors don't rely on. guesswork. They have an expert by their. side in a system that keeps them on. track, but most people don't have access.

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Paid non-client endorsement. Not a. guarantee nor representative of all. clients. Investment advisory services. offered by Stash Investments LLC, an SEC. registered investment advisor. Investing. involves risk. >> What have we proven? So, right now, we've discovered a lot of. things. Again, we can't prove something in. science. I can't prove to you that the. Earth is round. As I said, but I can. prove it's not flat. So, what have we. falsified? So, we falsified a huge host.

with my tools and technology. You know, it's amazing. I I get to work with like. just like billionaire brainiacs. Like. like IQ billionaires, you know, like my. colleagues who started the Simons. Observatory with me. David Spergel, who. ran the NASA UAP investigation panel two. or three years ago. He's the He was the. leader of it. He's the leader of the. Simons Foundation. He and I came up with. the idea for the Simons Observatory, which is this, you know, two hundred now.

two hundred million dollar kind of level. project. Uh my friend Mark Devlin at U. Penn uh. you know, created the six meter diameter. telescope and the detectors within it. You like three people can fit inside it. You like standing on shoulders. It's. insane. Um. Suzanne Staggs at Princeton built these. detectors that could detect a match at. the distance of the moon. I mean, these. are like insane people. Again, I would. pay to work with them and I get to do it. for free, right? We have been able to falsify these.

narratives that suggest there was no. period of time. when the universe was hotter, denser, more compact. We falsified claims that. dark matter does not exist. In other. words, we we can't prove dark matter. exists, but we've shown that in. universes, models, conceptions where. dark matter doesn't exist, it's a. hundred times more inconsistent with the. data. We've found evidence for dark energy. We found evidence that matter in the. universe.

acts like a lens that focuses light. If you put a black hole here, you can't see the black hole, it's. black, right? But light would be. deflected around it. just the same way that we've detected. with our instruments as well. That we can see the effects of the. curvature of space-time you and I talked. about. We've detected that. That means. that we have falsified these notions. that Einstein's theories are wrong or. incomplete. We do know that they're incomplete at. one level because we don't understand. how quantum mechanics, the physics of.

the very small, plays with cosmology and. relativity, the physics of the very. large, but I'm confident that we'll get. there. So, to have these abilities to falsify. Now, have we falsified that the Big Bang. occurred? No. Have we falsified that the. multiverse exists? No. If the multiverse exists, that would be. a huge challenge for traditional. theology, okay? It would mean there is. no one beginning. It would mean the. universe is eternal and exists in a vast.

cosmic landscape than we can perceive. that lies outside of our horizon. You. know, like we're talking before, if. you're out on a boat somewhere in the. middle of the Pacific Ocean, thousand. you know, thousand miles from land in. any direction, right? Can you detect Can you see another boat? No, you can't. You can't see anything. over the horizon. Could you detect the. boat's existence? Yeah, maybe there's waves, sonar, you. know, sonogram, sonar, whatever,

neutrinos from the nuclear reactor, whatever. There's a million ways you. could detect it, right? We're trying to. do just that. We're trying to see what. lies beyond the horizon. If indeed the inflationary epoch did. occur that we claim we did discover or. later had to retract that claim. It was. very embarrassing. That's the subject of. the first book that I wrote, Losing the. Nobel Prize. If we do get to that point where we can. sort of have evidence for it, it doesn't. prove the multiverse exists, but it kind. of rules out the alternatives. And that would present challenges,

right? To the traditional. theological. Torah creation story of a single. beginning of time. Um there are people that will attempt to. um use what are called apologetics. You know, kind of explain things with. the assumption that God could do that. As you said, you can't prove God exists. You can't prove God doesn't exist, right? We can't even prove we're having. this consciousness experience that we. call reality right now, right? We could. be some brains in a jar stimulated by.

electromagnetic radiation by some. malevolent demon, right? Um we don't have evidence for that, but it doesn't mean it's not within the. realm of possibilities. So, we've discovered a a whole host of of. incredible facts and more to come with. the Simons Observatory. um in the next few years where we first. get data from this instrument, which was. um. which was created in the part generosity. of my late great um mentor and friend. Jim Simons, who passed away 2 years ago.

Um established this this incredible. collaboration with the you know, it's. the people. It's like a team. Um without. the team, nothing happens. And I'm just. privileged to be, you know, at the at the heart of it and. the start of it. >> Well, I can't I can't remember. everything I talked to Alvie about, but. we were talking about the Big Bang. Theory and. peering back through time. We had that I. had that conversation. >> Yeah, you did. >> How many times can you observe that from.

Earth? >> So. >> Cuz if the light passes you by, then. it's gone, right? >> Right. Right. >> Is it gone or is it just keep coming? >> It's it's. >> If you look at a light source, I mean, it'll. be on until it turns off, and then it. has to. Right? >> Right. >> The Big Bang is an explosion, so I mean, correct? So. >> It's an explosion, >> done, the light is gone, so it would. pass you by. Correct? And then there. would be nothing after it. >> If it was an explosion, right. If it was.

an explosion. It's not an explosion in. the sense of, you know, a round goes off. and there's a shockwave. That has a. implicit bias that you're embedding an. event in a larger space, like this room, right? Explosion in this room is very. different than the space-time of this. room expanding, right? So, what the Big Bang postulates is that. if we're galaxies, at one time in the past, yesterday, we. were slightly closer.

And if you extrapolate back, extrapolate. back, you find that there'll be some. point where we're our chairs are right. up against each other, and I like you, but I'm not going to get that close, right? Um, but at the subatomic scale, you could also keep going back to much, much smaller distances, which would. require much, much more energy per cubic. millimeter, nanometer, Planck size, whatever. But that if space comes into existence. at that particular moment, then what. happens is is the expansion occurs. Space itself is expanding for a long. time,

but there's nothing There's no process. by which you can reveal the presence of. any matter or any energy cuz it doesn't. exist yet, right? The first galaxies. I've been talking about galaxies and. that's how Hubble, Edwin Hubble, showed. that to Einstein that he was wrong. So, Einstein believed in a static. universe, that the universe was eternal, as everybody did for thousands of years. Aristotle believed that, you know. And it was Einstein, right? Until Hubble. showed him evidence, data, that every galaxy you could see in the. universe is not static. It's moving away.

from Earth at huge speeds, fractions of. the speed of light. In fact, it moves away faster the. farther away two galaxies are. So, if we're in this room and we brought. in, you know, your producer and. you know, they sat over there, and this is the universe expanding. We'd. all be expanding. You would see me going. away and you would see him going away. from you, but you wouldn't feel like yourself is. moving away. But, I would see you moving away and I. would see him moving away.

And he would see the same thing, right? So, each one of us feels like we're at. the center of the universe, but we're. not. The space is expanding in between. us. And any process that you emit, if you if. you are having if you look at me with. and you shine a laser at me and it's a. green laser, if you start to move away. faster, you know, some large velocity, much much faster than any Earth-bound. speed, say half the speed of light, that. light will go from green to red. Because not only are you moving away,

but the wavelength is stretching from. short wavelengths to longer wavelengths. Eventually, you hit a speed because. you're at a distance and remember the. distance times this constant called the. Hubble constant tells you how how fast. two galaxies are moving away, you get a. velocity that's equal to the speed of. light. Okay? And then, after you get beyond. that distance, there's no reason I can't. be moving faster than the speed of light. away from you. And at that point, what do you see? So, right now you see me and I'm like waving. at you, right? And I keep waving at you.

and you keep expanding and. and eventually you hit the speed of. light and the last thing you'll see from. me is this. It'll appear frozen. The beam of light. that I'm producing, the photons of light. that I'm generating will keep shining. towards you. They'll get red shifted to longer and. longer wavelengths. You'll see me, you'll see me frozen waving and you'll. see me extremely red. And the same exact thing happens as an. observer falls into a black hole. They. don't get ripped apart at the so-called. event horizon.

You and Avi talked about this in great. detail. I'll refer you guys to episode. 146. >> I think. >> Episode 146, you talk about the falling. into a black hole. Nothing happens when. you cross the event horizon. People. think it sounds kind of cool, event. horizon. No, something happens when you. get close to the singularity, that's. called spaghettification, you get ripped. apart. That's irrelevant. The astronaut, right before he falls into the black. hole, he waves it, that's the same. thing. You see him, he's frozen and he's. very red. And that'll just keep continuing as long.

as, you know, as long as you're around. to look at him. So, the same thing. happens with this light, with any. process in the universe. And it just so. happens that in order to see something. that's beyond the event horizon, you. can't use light. You have to use something else. Cuz light can only travel at the speed. of light. It's the fastest speed there. is. But there has to be some other mechanism. by which you could see these processes. if they existed before the big before. this part of the Big Bang occurred. And. that's what we're looking for. We're.

looking for not waves of light, but waves of gravity. Which is the actual structure of. space-time. You know, space-time, again, you and Avi did a lot of the pre-reqs. for this course, you know. You talked about waves of gravity. Gravity and space-time is a dynamical. object. It's not a frozen ice block. Gravity means that distances and time. shift according to the local mass. distribution there is. So, when the universe had all the mass. it will ever have at the beginning, it.

had a lot of gravity. And when the expansion took place, that. gravity could be converted into. oscillatory radiation called. gravitational waves. That's what we look. for. It's not light. It's space-time. itself. >> Mhm. >> And we've detected that as as as. >> How are you able to see that? >> So, we see that in the distortion of. space and time. Remember I said if. there's a black hole here, you could. actually see something over there. because light from over there would get. bent by the black hole and it would. appear to be coming from over there, but.

it's actually coming from behind us. That's called gravitational lensing. As. Einstein predicted this phenomenon in. the 1930s, he also predicted this the. phenomenon of gravitational waves. Um it has been detected on Earth. from two black holes that existed. uh a billion years ago, a billion. light-years away, crashed into each. other. Okay, each one weighed 30 times. the mass of our sun. What was left over was a single black. hole. that weighed 59 times the mass of the of.

the two st of the sun. Right? So, you had 60 solar masses in. the beginning, 30 and 30. They crash. together. They make something that's. only 59 solar masses. Where did the rest. of the energy go? It all went into. shaking up and vibrating space-time. Those ripples in space-time mean that if. you were there. at one moment of time, your weight would. increase on a scale if you put a scale. in here and a gravitational wave comes. through, you one second at one moment of. time you get heavier, then it oscillates. and you get lighter. Heavier, lighter, heavier, lighter, and.

that process would occur at the speed of. light. But it's not light, it's the separation. of entities and events in space-time. itself. The curvature of which gets distorted if. the universe had a singularity, which. would mean it we live in a multiverse. >> Okay. >> all go together. So, we haven't. discovered that yet. We. may never even as you said before. eloquently, you can't prove it, can't. disprove it. But, we can disprove. alternatives to it. There's an.

alternative that says we came from a big. crunch. Remember I said that's a. possibility. That it turns out for. technical reasons can be disproven. if we see these waves of gravity. The waves of gravity cannot occur in a. universe with a big crunch, but they can. occur in a universe with inflation and. the multiverse. But, one can be proven One cannot be. proven, but one can be falsified, proven. wrong. >> You know, another thing that I was. talking to Avi about is when we talk. about the universe expanding. I was.

asking him about the edge. >> Yeah. >> of the universe and I didn't quite. understand what he was talking about. >> So, >> So, if we're expanding. >> Yeah. >> the space is expanding in between us. >> That's right. >> Where Where is the edge of this? >> So, there doesn't have to be an edge. But, there may be an edge, but there. doesn't have to be an edge. Um and it's. a very ancient question. You know, um Aristotle asked, "If you go to the. edge of the universe and you throw a. sphere, where does it go into, right?".

Uh it's exactly the same type of. question you're asking. Um So, what we. do in science is we in the in the. science of cosmology, we say that that. space-time. um is the set of all possible places in. X, Y, and Z and in time. Anything that can occur occurs in those. four dimensions, right? Uh you told me. to meet you here exactly in this, you. know, latitude, longitude, altitude, and. time, right? You specified all these. different things. You don't have to. specify anything else, right? That's.

Now, if a gravitational wave comes. through this room, it actually changes. both the space and time, you know, microscopically, but technically it. does. And if two big black holes crash. by and it would do it a lot, right? That. would be a huge, huge disruption to. space and time. It would change my. coordinates. I'd be at a different XYZ. time, altitude, whatever, right? Um, but all of space and time can exist. infinitely, like an infinite set of. monkey bars, just going out in all. directions, all possible directions.

Where space is there. Now, you might. say, "Well, what is that space made of?". Right? What's in that space? In other. words, our universe here. is within our horizon. Just like you go. out onto the beach in San Diego, I can. only see out what, 400 You're a Navy. guy, right? Tell me. You can see like 4. to 7 mi at sea level out to shore, but. then your horizon disappears cuz of the. curvature of the earth, right? Does that. mean there's nothing beyond that? Of. course not, right? You could There's. definitely stuff beyond that. People. didn't know that for a long time, but. now they do, right? So, that that's your.

horizon. Your horizon on a. two-dimensional surface like the surface. of the earth is a circle. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat]. >> Your horizon in a four-dimensional. universe is a sphere. Every event in space and time that's. ever occurred that we could just now get. information from lies within our light. sphere. We call that maximum light. sphere. the farthest distance that anything. could have traveled to us here. We call that the particle horizon or the.

observable universe. Okay? But, my observable universe looks. different than your observable universe. because we're not at the same. four-dimensional space-time location. You're 6 ft away from me. Light travels. 1. 1 billionth and and 1 billionth of a. second travels 1 ft. That's the speed of. light. So, I actually see you 6 ns. earlier than you are right now. You look wonderful, Sean, by the way. I see you I The sun, 8 minutes away. We. don't know The sun could have. disappeared right now. We won't know for.

8 minutes. It's not likely, but it's a. hypothesis. You could test it, right? Um, the universe, the Big Bang, the. stuff that I study happened 13.86. billion years ago. So, stuff could have. traveled to us from that age. And you take that age of the universe. times the speed of light. you technically have to modify it by the. expansion of the universe, but once you. do that, you get the the maximum. distance I can see where I am right. here. And that's a. a sphere whose radius is 45 billion.

light-years. Okay, so imagine that centered on me. But now go over a couple billion. light-years to this galaxy where these. two black holes crash together. That has a slightly different observable. universe. Now, what are they seeing? Are. they seeing into another universe? No. They're just They just have access to a. different light sphere of space that. could have communicated with them. >> Just another perspective. >> Yeah, and in a billion years from now. we'll be able to see that. Now, if. there's another universe there. let's say there's another universe.

God comes down, Sean, there's another. universe episode whatever 1400, you'll. have the other universe already. But. it's it's a it's it's 10 light-years. away. from our universe. You won't know about it for 10 years. Right? So, we could exist in this vast. universe It could also be that we're in. a compact finite universe where would. make sense to say. that there is an edge to it, just like. there's an edge There is an edge to the. Earth, right? The edge is in the. perpendicular dimension to the. two-dimensional sphere.

In the context of cosmology, the edge of. the universe could be if we live in a. spherical universe, but instead of. having X, Y, and Z it has X, Y, Z, and. W. It's a four-dimensional sphere. A. brain No nobody's brain, not even Avi's, can comprehend what that actually looks. like or means, but mathematically it's a. perfectly valid question. We can We can. approach it, and we can ask, what would. be the signature of another universe. that bumps into our universe? And people. make predictions about it. Uh. but there's zero evidence for that. There's zero evidence that our universe.

is a compact closed spherical universe. uh or that it's an open uh universe. Right now, our best evidence is that our. universe is infinite in extent, but that. infinity is just a mathematical. infinity. Um we have no idea of right beyond it. could be another universe. And if you. ask, "What's in that other universe?". Uh I have an. I've a thought exercise for you. When the Artemis uh we should talk about. lunar uh landing conspiracies cuz you.

you had on this guy uh Gentile. >> A.J. Gentile. >> A.J. Gentile. That was an awesome show. >> I love that guy. He's one of my favorite. people. >> He's he's and he's he's so good at what. he does, you know, like imagine how hard. it is like in you know, it's hard to. interview people, but then also to do. like explain our content where you. explain things. Um. but you know, I was I can never take the. professor out of laboratory and so he. made a couple mistakes in that episode. And I would love to talk to him. sometime. Uh maybe you can uh introduce me. But. one of the things he said is that um.

that the uh the Soviets beat us in every. possible thing. And this is part of the. conversation you guys had about the how. the moon landing didn't happen, right? Or or how people could say that I don't. actually know what you believe and this. is a case where you could say believe, but we have evidence, right? >> What do you believe? >> I know for a fact we landed on the moon. >> How do you know? >> I I know for a fact cuz we have physical. evidence, we have eyewitness evidence, we have photographic evidence, but the. best evidence we have, Sean, the best evidence we have comes from the. Soviet Union.

>> What's that? >> Soviet Union on uh July 19th, 1969, the. Soviets knew that the Eagle was on its. way to land on the Sea of Tranquility. They had launched 6 days earlier a. spacecraft of their own. Uh uncrewed, no. men were on it, but they were going to go and land on. the moon. and they were going to take samples and. they kind of wanted to steal the. thunder, arrive a day earlier, and and. kind of get a little bit of the credit, and they also kind of hoped that we. would crash and they would all die.

I mean, the space race was insane, right? I mean, it was incredible. The Soviets coordinated with the. Americans. on that very day. because they were worried that they. would crash into the Eagle. And they coordinated their telemetry, and we still have records of their. telemetry. Um and the communications. between the um Baikonur Cosmodrome in in. Kazakhstan, where they would do their. launches and recoveries, and NASA. Apollo. They want to avoid a huge PR.

disaster, especially since they thought. we would die. They thought they would. actually crash. People thought that the. moon landers would crash would keep. going down through the surface of the. moon. They thought it was made of like. really loose talcum powder like dust. And that they would actually be unstable. and it would flip. They actually Most. people gave it 50/50 odds. In fact, Nixon had recorded a speech in case the. astronauts died. And you know, and he they pre-recorded. it, and so he would play it on TV and. give their condolences. They also. planned for the contingency that they'd. be lost in lunar orbit, or that they.

would miss the moon and go off into deep. space and become a satellite never to be. found again, right? So, So the Russians confirmed it. that we coordinated with our telemetry. When they landed, they congratulated. President Nixon. Um. and then they also landed on on the moon. in the first landing. They landed these. retroreflectors called laser lunar laser. retroreflectors. Um you ever run on your. bicycle and you see like a bike tail. light. reflectors on the back of a bike, right?

How does that work? How does the bike. know where your car is going to be? You. could be at any angle, any bearing, any. distance, right? How does it know to. reflect back? They have the specially. designed retroreflectors that always. will find the target back to Earth. And we bounce lasers off it. My. colleague UCSD. became retired recently, Tom Murphy. He. bounces lasers off these retroreflectors. left by the Apollo uh landing, uh Apollo. 11. And he can measure the distance to the. moon to the thickness of a paper clip.

1 mm or so thickness. So, we know the. average that was left by these. astronauts. Now, the Russians left these. things there, too. But, the Russians. also overflew. both our uh landing sites and their own. landing sites. And Tom Murphy and his. colleagues found the Russian. retroreflectors as well as the American. ones exactly where the Americans said. they put it and exactly where the. Russians said they put it. And the last. kind of little bit of convincing. evidence, uh one one part and but I do. want to get back to what Gentile said.

that's wrong because I think it's. important. Um it is that uh. is that that um. the the positioning so you could maybe. sort of fake that or whatever. But, imagine right now. Imagine like Artemis. 2, which just went around the moon, right? I I think even, you know, I. debated Bart Sibrel on Piers Morgan the. day of the launch. And he he was like, "Well, maybe they're going now, but they. couldn't have gone then." I'll get back. to that in a second. Uh that's totally fallacious and and. ridiculous argument that I refuted on. air with with him and Piers actually.

piled on and called him full of [ __ ] uh. to his credit. But, um. these the very day that Artemis launched. and then went around the moon this last. month in April. Can you imagine they still land on the. moon though, right? Not not this one. This one was was going around the moon. they were supposed to land and then it. changed. No, no. No, it was always planned to do. this. First one went around the moon, no. one was in it. Second one went around. the moon with people in it. Third one's. going to be people in it. Uh sorry, unmanned landing on the moon. Fourth. one's going to be people landing on the. moon.

Okay. Well, let me let me let me just. finish up this one. All right. I just. want to know why don't we just land on. the [ __ ] moon? We did it in the '60s. Okay. Would you get are we doing all. this crazy wild [ __ ] Let's just. go back. Would you get on with your kids. and being here and your wife and your. empire that is so impressive, would you. get on like the second flight of a of. any kind of military hardware built by. the lowest paying country. >> noticed, I'm a risk-taker. >> I know you are. But would you do it now? I asked Elon Musk on my podcast.

>> Would I do it right now? >> Yeah. Would you take it right now? Right. So you do things in steps. >> 4 or 5 years ago. >> Kitty Hawk. Was that the first time that. the Wright Flyer had ever flown? No, they didn't put themselves on it the. first time. They did test flights, prototype flights. That's all they're. doing. There's nothing nefarious there. But let me let me just get to the. closure of this one argument. I thought. experiment I want you to consider. April. 5th, 6th, when they went around the. moon. Can you imagine Ayatollah Khomeini. Jr. Oh, hello. Hi, mashallah, mashallah, President.

President Trump. Congratulations. Every country on Earth, including China, which had stolen a lot of our nuclear. and space secrets in the 1970s, China, Soviet Union, all these countries called. up and congratulated the United States. Now, they were our enemy. It's hard to. think of it now cuz we kind of like. whatever, whatever, right? But can you. imagine like the Ayatollahs right now. calling us up to congratulate us? In. other words, they would be the most. glorified and happy people on Earth to.

have us not get there and prove that we. didn't get there because that would. leave glory for them. So that's a psychological kind of. component evidence for it. There's. overwhelming scientific evidence for it. The evidence against it is is minimal. You already mentioned one of them, which. is well, how come they did it. you know, in the '60s but we can't do it. now. I mean, you said that, Gentille. said that. Totally fallacious argument. I I love you. I love Gentille. I'm going. to tell you that's a fallacious. argument. And I'm living proof of it, okay? The first person to ever set foot on the.

South Pole, Roald Amundsen. He's amazing. guy. He went from the North Pole. He almost. was the first person to reach the North. Pole. He lost, turned around, and went. on a huge expedition, and became the. first person to land to to reach the. South Pole. The South Pole nowadays, I. said, I take a C-130 flight, a C-17. flight land on the ice, then I take a. ski C-130 on land. Takes me a week. Okay, I mean, poor Brian, you know, play. play the violin for It took them 6. months. just to get there. Then they got there,

they would get there in spring cuz. that's the only time you can really. travel there. Then they have to wait. until the following spring, they'd stay. on the coast of Antarctica for 6 more. months until or 7 8 months to before it. became warm enough that they could ski. cross-country ski up 9,000 ft of ice. Okay? And then they got to the South. Pole and then had to get back before. winter started. And if they missed it by. 3 weeks, like the British team, Robert. Falcon Scott was the second person to. get to the South Pole in 1912, in. January 1912, 3 weeks after Amundsen got.

there in December 1911, everyone on. Scott's team died. Every single one of. them. Froze to death the most. excruciating way possible, 10 miles from. a cache of supplies that would have. saved their lives. They all died. They. didn't know about it for another year. and then they got back to England a year. after that. Okay, we're we're just Okay, so 1911, our Norwegian guy sets foot. with his teammates on the South Pole. Do you know when the next Norwegian to. get to the South Pole was, Sean? And I'm. not expecting you to. 1996. >> Wow. >> So, if you're in 19 Bart Sibro, 1995,

you say, "Oh, wait. How come we went. there with technology with a boat, a. wooden boat, like Shackleton, we did that 100 years ago, but we can't. do that now?" It's completely. fallacious. I mean, that's not a good. argument. Okay? There are other. arguments that are better, like the Van. Allen belts and so forth. >> I don't think that, you know, that the. I'm not saying that we didn't go. >> Okay, it sounded like. >> I'm not saying we. >> You're open to the hypothesis, at least. >> I think it's. [ __ ] weird that we haven't been back.

since the '60s. >> But do you know why we didn't go back to. the South Pole? >> Or anybody on Earth. >> Uh uh So, first of all, it it was. >> belt thing that you just brought up, I. also think is very odd. And there's that. guy at NASA that said we lost the. technology. I'm sorry, you lost the. [ __ ] technology. >> Okay, there's no NASA guy at NASA. It's. like saying the guy in the Navy SEALs or. something like that can mean a lot of. things, right? It it doesn't. >> Well, I mean I'm just not familiar with. >> Yeah, I know. But but when you have a.

platform like you do and and AJ has his. platform, I'm just I would love the. scientific rigor to kind of not you have. to get a PhD in quantum mechanics. actually. I'm just saying when you think. about things, what should be your. default base rate hypothesis? Should it. be that this is this is kind of fake or. you know, as as Candace Owens said this. is fake and gay, right? So, she's. supposed to be like America first, right? She's supposed to really love. America, be patriotic. It's not only the greatest achievement. of America, but it's this is one of the.

greatest I think it is personally the. greatest achievement in all of human. history. And I say that as somebody. who's a pure scientist. Say going to the. moon, yeah. What we did in a very short. amount of time, but it took a level of, you know, just just incredible. incredible, you know, cooperation and. technology, hundreds of thousands of. people coordinating across decades. And. and the evidence against it is so. minimal. What's frustrating as a real. scientist say like, "Look, no one would.

rather these things be. false than a scientist, right? Cuz I get. paid not to prove people right. My job. is not to prove freaking Avi Loeb right. My my job is to say no, you're freaking. wrong. Here's a better explanation. Let's go test that." And his job as a. good scientist say, "Thank you Brian, you know, you you use your experimental. technology. I'm going to theoretical. physicist. Let's work together and come. closer to truth, okay? That's the way. science should be done, not like the. default assumption is America lied, you. know, they lied about COVID, they lied I. mean I you know, for many reasons I wish. COVID never happened. And I've.

interviewed, you know, and I'm best. friends with the one of the close. friends with the director of the. National Institute of Health, Dr. Jay. Bhattacharya, tortured by Anthony Fauci and and and. and Francis Collins, horrible thing. And. he you know, he's a Christian, he's an. incredible human being. You know, he. >> All this stuff that you're kind of. talking about here, you know, at the beginning you asked me. if I thought it was a good idea for a. country to lie to its citizens. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Now we're wondering if we [ __ ] landed. on the moon. because a lot of lies have come out of.

the government. >> what you're saying. >> And you're a scientist, you know, you. understand how to sift through all this. data and and you I mean just you spend. many, many years studying all the things. that it takes to know about landing on. the moon. I'm a Navy SEAL. I spent those years. fighting a [ __ ] war. You know what I. mean? >> Yeah. >> And so what I'm saying is, you know, you're looking at straight facts and the. rest of us are looking at context. You. know, and when you have when you add in. the context and you see a government. that continuously lies to its [ __ ].

citizens, citizens are no longer going to believe. the government. >> I guess as as a question. >> all these conspiracies start to happen. and distrust and then. they start digging into everything. What. were you saying about Candace? >> So So Candace What I'm saying about. Candace is that the America Firsters and. the American Patriots and so forth and. I'm not questioning her love of America. or whatever. Just saying if this is the. greatest accomplishment that a human. being has ever made and it happens to.

come from the country that you profess. your love for and allegiance to as I do. and as you do, right? That it doesn't. mean they're flawless. I mean. who's flawless, right? I mean who do you. agree with 100% of the time? Like I'll. say my wife, right? But but that's about. it, right? Sometimes you contradict. yourself. I contradict myself. >> with your wife 100% of the time? That's. [ __ ]. >> Uh honey, if you're watching this. You know what I did? I I made her mad. the other day. I said, "You know, honey, whenever I'm driving around like I got. to turn off the the um the the. voice-activated directions on the GPS.". She's like, "Oh, that's so romantic. You.

want to listen to me." I'm like, "No, I. don't want two women yelling at me while. I'm like. >> [laughter]. >> Um no, so you don't agree with. everybody, right? You don't even agree. with yourself. I reserve the right to be. wrong all the time and in fact, that's. the best thing a scientist should do. We. should have the freaking balls to say. when we're wrong, not just when we're. right. From the standpoint of having. skepticism. of your government and whatnot. You. always have to ask a question cui bono, like who benefits from it, right? Who. would benefit from the moon landing not. occurring? Um is a question. You can ask.

that question. Um you can also, you. know, say what are the downstream. tangible benefits from doing that work. and landing on the moon? You can ask. what were the technological impediments. But if you start with a hypothesis, you know, it's like an atheist. He says. like, I'm going to start with the. hypothesis God doesn't exist, Sean, right? And you have to you have the. burden of proof to prove to me that God. exists or doesn't exist, right? Um. that's not approaching things. scientifically. Like if you start with a. there's a there's a term in that for.

it's called apologetics. Uh you start. with the conclusion, you reason towards. the conclusion based on the best. available data, but you have you're not. going to like refute God. Like William. Lane Craig or Barron uh the. uh the the Catholic priest. I'm blanking. on his name. I think it's Barron his. last name, Robert Barron. Um they're not. going to come to a conclusion that. disproves God, right? Let's let's just. be honest. That's that's not necessarily. what their their, you know, focus is. going to be on, right? Uh but they're. going to give explanations why God is a. more plausible hypothesis than anything.

else. But if you and and so there's purely. scientific reasons you can you can. debate what happened when we went to the. moon. How come we didn't go back? I I. think I gave some credibility to the. argument that just cuz you do something. once, it doesn't necessarily make it. easier to do it twice. Like appears. Morgan on his show, to give him credit, to Bart Sibrel, he said, I flew on the. Concord, you know, in the 2001 and um I. haven't been on a Concord since. Like. how come there's no freaking, you you. Mach 2 transportation right now? How. come that's not probably ever going to. happen again? How do we go back into You.

know, when that was built That was built. 1962, the Concord. It was before the. Apollo landing. We can't do that now. That's It's an argument that sounds good. to people that really might come into a. conversation with a predisposition. And. that's fine for a a person who's not. who's not maybe wanting to portray. themselves as being a scientist. You're. not a scientist, AJ's not a scientist. But uh but there's one more thing about. the Van Allen belts, which is the other. thing that she, Candace Owens, really. got from this guy, Bart Sibrel, and then.

I think AJ kind of got this too. So, there's this radiation belt that. surrounds the Earth. Uh and it's called the Van Allen belts. It is supposedly this impenetrable, instantly um fatal trajectory. No person. can get through it. Uh and there's no. way to get to the moon without going. through these belts, right? I mean, it. surrounds the Earth. So, that's that's. like saying, there's no way Let's say. you wanted to land on Saturn, right? For whatever reason, Shawn's deciding. we're taking the podcast on the road, going to Saturn, right? Um Saturn has.

this ring system around it. It's like a. belt around it, right? So, if you're. going to land on Saturn, fine. You. probably won't take the trajectory that. goes right through the ring system, right? Just cuz of there a belt exists. doesn't mean that there's not a. symmetrical process a trajectory that. you can go through that's totally safe, right? The asteroid belt. You think. about the asteroid belt. You shoot a. spaceship through the asteroid belt, you're going to get destroyed. No, you. won't. The If you shot in any direction, you take any trajectory you want, and. you'll go out to the edge of the solar. system, there's almost a 0% chance.

you'll hit anything, even though you. kind of depict it as an asteroid belt. The Van Allen belts are like that. They're highly concentrated in certain. regions. There's two different belts, an. inner belt and an outer belt. They. mainly go around the equator. The. launches to the moon go around the pole. So, there's no danger, there's no. exposure to it. We knew how to do it. Satellites go through it all the time, and anyone who's ever seen Aurora knows. about it. It's not dangerous, it's not. fatal. It's it it happens to be about. the equivalent of two or three chest. x-rays, which you and I get every year, every couple of years, right? So,

there's some radiation. It sounds scary. You know, one of the Patreon questions. that I answered for my fellow Vigilance. Elite Patreon members. was about like how do we make the the. concept of nuclear power less. less traumatizing, less kind of scary to. the average person. Like how do we get. rid of radiation? So, save that, you. have to join Vigilance Elite Patreon. I don't trying to sell that to my fellow. members. So, go over there, you'll find out my answer. to it. But it's but it's sort of it's it's. manipulative to say radiation scary,

therefore we didn't go to the moon. >> Mhm. >> Let's look at it scientifically. Let's. look at the evidence. >> If you spend any time off-road like I. do, you already know how easy it is to. end up second-guessing where you're at. Whether you're still on a legal trail or. if the route ahead is even worth taking. That's why I've been using onX off-road. It's an off-road navigation app that. shows trails, public and private land. boundaries, places to camp, and detailed.

trail info all in one place. And what. makes it really useful is the amount of. actual trail data. You can check. difficulty ratings, terrain details, trail photos, even recent reports from. other riders before you head out there. The other big thing is you can download. maps ahead of time. Because once you. lose service out there, your phone is. pretty much useless. But with onX. off-road, everything still works. offline. And if you're riding with a. group, their location-sharing feature.

lets everybody stay on the same map, so. nobody gets lost or separated. What I. like most about it is it gives me a lot. more confidence when I'm exploring. somewhere new. I'm not wasting time. backtracking, accidentally ending up on. private land, or trying to figure things. out once I'm already deep into the trail. system. I can plan ahead, know what I'm. getting into, and spend more time. actually enjoying the ride instead of. worrying about navigation the whole. time. Search onX Offroad in the App. Store or Google Play. Again, that's onX.

Offroad in the App Store or Google Play.

All right, Brian, we're back from the. break. We pretty much just wrapped up the moon. talk. But, I did bring one thing in here. cuz you gave me a little [ __ ] for saying. the NASA guy. So, here is the NASA. [cough and clears throat] guy. Go ahead and hit play. Let me know what you think. >> I'd go to the moon in a nano second.

Uh the problem is we don't have the. technology to do that anymore. We used. to, but we uh. destroyed that technology, and it's a. painful process to build it back again. >> When you said that just now, >> All right. >> did it sound stupid to [laughter] you? >> Kind of. >> As I mentioned. >> So, that was What's this guy's name? >> Don Pettit, NASA astronaut. >> Okay. So, I I I I sounded like an idiot cuz I. didn't know his name or what he was, so.

I had to go find it and show it to you. So, >> That's fine. >> What What What is your take on that? I'm. just curious. >> So, um no disrespect to Don, again, more. courageous than I'll ever be, you know, launching on top of a 60,000, you know, tons of TNT equivalent and risk your. life and do everything that he did. Um. So, the one thing that's more. complicated than physics is psychology, is the human mind. So, I'm not going to. speculate what he meant by it. I'll just. say um it's the technology can't be.

destroyed, right? Technology means a lot. of things. It means the physical. rockets. Do we have Apollo Saturn V. boosters anymore? No, so we don't have. those. Do we destroy them? Yeah, I mean, I've got a um. uh a .50 cal uh bullet that my. [clears throat] brother-in-law Jim. Brewer got me. Um and it I use it as a. bottle opener. Is it Is it destroyed? Yeah, it's destroyed. It has a hole in. it and the gunpowder's been taken out. and it's not a live round, right? So, we. Do we destroy Do we destroy the know-how. on how to do it? Do we dis- destroy.

>> That's what That's the way I take that. is they destroyed the know-how. >> So, >> the blueprint. [clears throat]. >> So, >> a [ __ ] about the [ __ ] booster or. whatever with the rocket or whatever it. is? We can build it again. >> It is true, right? >> I don't think that that's um. >> That's what everybody's doing with these. autonomous systems right now. They're. building disposable units that can be. very cheaply and easily. recreated. >> You know, I have a. uh collect aviation, you know, kind of. antique artifacts. I have a a B-17.

uh propeller in in my hangar in San. Diego where I keep my my plane. And um. and this thing is amazing. And there's. zero chance that we could ever get that. to work. We could ever reconstruct a. B-17, you know, from scratch. There are. a couple of B-17s flying. I think. there's three left or something like. that. Again, if if we had an infinite. amount of money, infinite amount of money, do you think. that Elon or do you think that that that. our our greatest engineers and. scientists couldn't reassemble and build. a P-38 or a B-17? Of course we could, but you have to ask like, what's the.

purpose of that? We We have been there. We have done that. I actually think. there's a stronger. >> What's the purpose of that? >> What's the purpose of rebuilding. >> the purpose. >> of coming to North America again? >> Well, what um. >> What was the purpose? >> So, we are. >> Settle new [ __ ] land, to expand an. empire, to [ __ ]. What What would the purpose of going to. the moon be? I don't know, to claim the. [ __ ] moon. >> That's true. >> What do we know there's the [ __ ] up. there that we don't need? >> Same with the Antarctic. Why do we go to. the Antarctic? >> I when I interviewed this guy, Steve. Quast, and uh helium 3, he's talking. about we need the helium 3, it's going. to be great for energy.

>> Mhm. >> Can't remember everything about the. conversation, but. >> Yeah, you can get it. >> what I mean? Like, why aren't we going. up there and getting [ __ ] helium 3? >> Sure. >> You know, and so I sense that you get. frustrated with skeptics. like me or people that don't believe, but what really is the problem is the. scientists are doing a very shitty job. of explaining why the [ __ ] we haven't. been back to the moon. >> Yeah. >> to pee brains. like [clears throat] me. >> A, you're not a pee brain. B, uh my job is to answer questions and I.

and I I I get paid to answer questions, right? That's what a teacher is. At. heart, I'm a scientist, right? And. scientists answer questions. I'm a. professor, I'm a teacher. When when they. say something like that, there's. different reads to saying that. Like, um. you know, uh where's the car? Um you. know, to your 16-year-old. Oh, I. destroyed it. It's destroyed. Is it. destroyed? Like, with Is it beyond the. laws of physics to reconstruct it? Um is. an astronaut the right person to ask. this question about the technology? Do. you know that astronauts have almost no.

knowledge of the engineering and the. building of it? Some of them have. weren't even pilots, right? So, that's. why I kind of asked you before, is my. lack of domain expertise in the operator. special teams and the and navy aviators, does that preclude me from being able to. ask questions that might be. uncomfortable for people that believe. things that they've seen that I don't. believe there's evidence at the. scientific evidentiary level for? So, that one clip, it doesn't shake me. It. doesn't It doesn't frustrate me. It. doesn't It doesn't It doesn't make me. feel like, oh, well, I really got me. Um.

Um, it makes me feel like this guy said. something. I don't know the full. context, but I know for sure if we had. wanted to, there's absolutely no reason. not to. Now, why didn't we want to? What. was the Cold War? I mean, do we go back. and keep bombing Japan and bombing the. Soviet Union? The Soviet Union. collapsed, right? Part of it was because. of the vast military expenditures that. we spent during the space race, and it. was no longer sustainable in the late. 1980s and the Berlin Wall fell. Did we. fire a shot? No. I mean, not really. I. mean, you guys probably know. But once. you once you do a thing,

do you need to do it again? Like, it's. not like running a marathon, all right? Roger Bannister broke the 4-minute mile. 80 years ago, something like that. People still want to break the 4-minute. mile, right? They keep getting better. and better. Um, will that person the the. second person to break the 4-minute. mile? Do you know his name? >> No, but I mean, yes, we do need to do it. again. I mean, since the since the. beginning of time, it's been. expansion of empires. >> Yeah. >> The entire [ __ ] planet's occupied. now, except Antarctica. So, I got to go.

>> I'll sell you some land there. But. >> you know what I mean? So, where where. and what what is the fastest growing. What's that? >> Is the is the world overpopulated? I. don't think so. I think it's the. opposite. I think we're running low on. population. If you took every person on. Earth, Shawn, >> I guess what I'm saying is it's all been. settled. I'm not talking about an. overpopulation or anything. I'm talking. about. expansion of empires, which humanity has. been doing since the beginning of time. >> Right. >> The new expansion is space. >> Absolutely. >> Space. I mean, the the the what I I.

can't I don't know the correct. terminology, but it's been it's been. told to me by several people on the show. that the the real estate law or whatever. the [ __ ] you call it, space, >> Yeah, space law. >> space law is the fastest growing. >> It is. >> you know, um, sector of of legal or. whatever, legal real estate. >> was created. The first branch of the US. military created in 50 years, 60 years. >> So, you can't tell [clears throat] me that, you know, it's not important and then.

Steve Quast is saying China is is. basically on the moon. I don't know if. that's correct or not, but that's what. he says. But whatever, somebody's going. to [ __ ] go there and somebody's going. to claim it. Why haven't we been back? It's been how. long? 60 years, maybe? >> If we had this conversation, you know, 46 days ago, we could say we haven't. been back to the moon in 56 years or. whatever, but now we haven't. We've been. around the moon, we went farther than we. went even during the Apollo mission. We're testing this thing out. I always. say, you know, someone said to me, "Do. you want to be go on a SpaceX rocket, go.

to the moon?" I'm like, "Yeah, I want to. be customer 10,000." Like, I don't want. to be the first guy. You know how many. aviation accidents occurred during the. first 10 years after the Wright. brothers? What the fatality rate is? Nowadays, you get on a plane, the. fatality rate is 0.001. The only fatality in America since 9/11. was right after uh Trump's inauguration, his helicopter hit commercial jet. That. was like the first mid-air collision. that resulted in death. Even Sully. Sullenberger landed on. There aviation safety has gotten down to.

the sub-thousandth of a percent level of. fatality risk. Space is still about 3%, 4%. Now, part of that is intrinsic to. the environment. It's the most extreme. hostile environment, which is also some. of the reason why we might not ever get. to Mars and colonize Mars. We might not. have the ability, we might not have the. wherewithal. But in today's dollars, to. reproduce what we did, just go to the. moon, walk around, do the samples, if. you'd want to do that, uh is sort of the. analog of what I said before. Go to the. South Pole, be the 10th person to get to. the South Pole. Uh you have to justify a.

huge amount of blood and treasure to do. that. And I'm sorry, people in America. are not willing to see astronauts die. You know, we've gotten to a point where. they if they were to have one loss of an. of an astronaut, it would set back. probably the future lunar colonization. by an incredible, you know, maybe. decades. And the budget that NASA is. dedicating towards this is minuscule. You know, women. in this country and many men, I don't. know your audience. No, no. Women spend more on lipstick. in America than the NASA budget. Tell me.

how you're going to get to colonize the. interplanetary species like Elon wants. to do with a budget that's $25 billion. And some say that's way too high. We. should be spending on poverty. We should. be sending it on and you got to be. sympathetic to some of these things, right? So, the question is one of. national will. We had pride in the. 1960s, we wanted to beat Russia. We. don't really have that with China. We. have a very unusual thing with China, our relationship. You know more about. the geopolitics than I do. There's an. interesting thing that just happened in. um. didn't really make much media attention.

I saw it. In the New York Times reported that uh. China was trying to build radio. telescopes in Argentina. and optical telescopes there. And the US. government could uh coordinate with. Argentina and froze the parts at the. port in China. I'm sorry, at the port in. Argentina. Like, why are they doing. that? Well, guess what? When we go up and study the cosmic. microwave look for the Big Bang and. stuff like that, we're on top of these. mountains. We're looking for infrared. We're looking for heat. Well, guess. what? So are the Chinese. They're. probably looking for infrared from a B-2.

stealth bomber. Okay, you can conceal. its radar. That's what stealth means. You can cool the exhaust, but you can't. defeat the second law of thermodynamics. When an SR-71 is cruising at cruise. speed, the windshield gets up to 600°. It had to be 3 in of quartz. Well, quartz radiates in the infrared. extremely well. You can pick that thing. out like a you know, hot knife going. through butter. So, these are not always. peaceful, you know, kind of coordination. and scientific benefit. But to. coordinate something on a budget of $25. billion, I mean.

it's it's it's you know, kind of it's. it's almost nothing. And so, I don't. think we're going to get there again, but not because it's some it's and. that's today when people are excited. about the moon. Elon Musk exists, he. didn't exist in 1980s or whatever, right? And we had the space shuttle. program that was kind of a mixed failure. blessing in some ways. A ped it was one of the commanders on. So, look, um the disposition has to be. like, what is the cost-benefit analysis? Is it worth sending people there if they. have a high risk of dying? You know,

would you want to be, you know, let's. say it's safe. You know you're not going. to die, but you're going to go on a. one-way ticket to Mars. And oh, your. crewmate's going to be Elon Musk, cuz he. wants to go there, too. Are you going to. do that? You love risk. I'm telling you no risk. You're not. going to die. >> I mean, you're you're talking to. somebody that fought in three different. wars and several different conflicts. >> Yeah. >> I do have a huge appetite for risk. >> Yeah, I I know you do. >> I have an even bigger appetite for risk. when it advances. humanity, advances our country,

you know, things like that. And so, if I thought that for one second that. by reaching the moon with Elon Musk, for. whatever reason, is going to advance. humanity and make a [ __ ] better life. for mine and yours' kids, you bet your ass I'm going to be on that. flight. >> So, then we have to look at what is the. >> There are a lot of people that are just. like me. >> But aren't there some No, you know, I'm. saying this with love and and respect. But like, you you were ordered to fight in these.

wars. >> I wasn't ordered to fight. I [ __ ]. joined to fight. >> to fight, right? But once you're there, as I understand it, right? You don't have that much say what you're. going to do and which wars you're going. to fight in. In other words, do you do you if you. knew everything that you knew now, are you going to are you going to say. that like if this is going to advance. humanity, that's what they told us, too, in Iraq. Like, this is going to benefit, it's going to protect America, it's. going to do all these things. Let's leave aside whether it did or it. didn't, but you did it. You signed up. for it. Did it did the promise or the.

expectations, did it match, you know, all the hardship that you went. through and and your fellows all. >> No, it was another lie from the US. government. >> Right. So, what about this? You're. saying you're going to do do because you. love adventure. >> if. >> I knew for a fact that it was going to. advance humanity and make a better life. for mine and yours kids, I would do it. You could bet your ass on it." That's. what I said. >> I asked Elon on my podcast. I had him on. very briefly. And I said, "Elon, you say you want to. go to Mars. You want to live on Mars. You want to die on Mars." I said, "Let's.

hope it's not on impact, you know.". >> [laughter]. >> I don't want you dying on impact, buddy. Uh I think you're too important. But um. but. you have uh 13 to 14 kids. We actually. don't know how many kids Elon has. >> [laughter]. >> He's either very lucky or very unlucky. But um but he has at least 13 kids. I. said, "There would be a day when you'd have to. say They're not all going to go." His. kid X Æ A-12, 72, you know, the one. that's named after the black bird, right? It has an unpronounceable name. Uh he was in the room. I could hear the. kid talking on the podcast when I was.

talking to Elon. His mom was on the. podcast. She was a It's a big space and. and we recorded it. I said, "How are you going to say. goodbye to another kid?" He lost a kid. You know, it's just the most. traumatic thing that a human being you. and I know. Like, I don't even like talk. about it. Parent loses a child. You can't think. about it. Now, you're volunteering to. lose 13 children. Like, how are you. going to do that? And it was the first time I ever. heard of Elon being at a loss for words. You can hear it on my pod I have it on.

my YouTube channel. He couldn't say it. His mom, Maye Musk, comes and said, "Oh, let's not talk about that.". Let's not talk about sad things. So, it's sad. I know you do it. Again, you have courage that mortal men. like me I I'm telling you I couldn't do. it. But it it's also to me it would have to. be justifiable. And I know as a. scientist I can't know for sure, guaranteed, it's going to benefit your. kids and my kids. I just can't do it. And as a scientist I have to say, "What. could we do with Sean Ryan, as [ __ ].

bad ass as you are, and I no doubt that we can't do with. Optimus 27 equipped with chat GPT 100. In other words, why send a human being. with a wife, kids, family, people that. love you, people that depend on you, people that are watching right now, whose life and ears you're in right now? I mean, you're going to take that away? Tell me, convince me you can't do that. with a robot or AI. We haven't talked. about AI. What do you want to talk. about? I think AI has a lot of things in common. with aliens in that it sort of it is.

potentially kind of a surrogate. replacement secular god. That it gives us the chance to do what. God did. You know, God made man man Adam, in. Hebrew means earth. God made man out of. earth. We have that impulse. Tower of Babel. We have that same urge, that same desire, that same craving to. be as gods. That's why I Look, I don't. read the Bible as a science book. Sorry. You know, I don't look at it, "Hmm, where's the um hydrogen's uh 32nd wave.

function?" It's not in there. It's not. what it's supposed to do. I don't read Avi Loeb's books to learn. about how to be a better member of my. community and a better husband. They're. different purposes, right? When you look at that book though, the. Torah, the Bible, the Old Testament and. the New Testament, you look at what they. are designed to do in the time that they. were designed to do it, and are still. relevant in this age. You know, I always. joke, I wish I I'll have God's book sales. You. know, like 1% of God's book sales in in. 3,000 years. There's no book like that,

Shawn. You can't tell me there's not. something quasi-divine even if you don't. believe. Something that's lasted for 32. centuries, that's as applicable to my. daily life right now. I read the Bible, I read Jesus, I read the New Testament, I read every day Stoics. I read it all. Why not? Why wouldn't I read. Shakespeare? I read Stephen Hawking. I. don't care. I'll learn from anybody. When you look at that book, what comes. out is the flawed nature of human beings. wanting to become gods, frustrated, fighting with God, building a tower to.

reach up to the sky, not to learn what. God knows, but to fight against God to. show how great we are cuz we built this. tower and we don't need your freaking. mountain. We can do it ourselves. We build mausoleums and pyramids and all. these things. What is it supposed to do? It's meant really There's a book by. Ernest Becker. It's called The Denial of. Death. And Ernest Becker claims that the human. being has one major fear and he spends. his whole life attempting to overcome. that fear. And that's that he's going to. die. The word Homo Sapien means man who.

knows. What does he know? We're the only creatures that exist that. know we have a death date. >> Uh-huh. >> Yes, elephants will get together and. they'll look around and when one dies, they'll all cry and I don't I'm not. saying that. They don't know when. they're 4 years old that they're going. to die. My daughter asked me the other day like. you're you're going to Are you going to. die before me? So I hope so. I was like in tears. We know at a young age we're going to. die. That's a good thing. But since biblical times since early.

man, we have struggled with this desire to. overcome that limitation to become gods. ourselves to extend our lives both in. lifespan, which is great, and in. sort of the power, the omnipotence of. the human, which means augmentation, building silicon brains that live. outside of us, robotic brain robotic bodies, cryogenic. suspension, longevity, maybe escape velocity as Kurzweil calls. it.

You know, he claims at a certain point. in three, four, five years, it keeps. getting pushed back like disclosure. Uh. that we'll reach. >> Like escape velocity. >> we'll reach longevity escape velocity, which means for every year you live, you'll live another 1.1 years or. something like that. Once you hit that, you can live forever. >> Would you live forever? >> Not by myself. I wouldn't want to be the only one. And it's it's so complex, but but look. at the urge. What's the urge? Who was. the only man that you believe did have a.

life after death? Anyone else but Jesus? Do you think anyone else besides Jesus? We have an urge to be like Jesus, to. live forever, to resurrect ourselves, to. extend ourselves forever. >> What if that's. >> Yeah, everybody I've been I can't say. everybody, but a lot of people are. trying to build a legacy. They want to. be remembered. They want. >> Exactly. >> They're look they're they're. They're heirlooms. They want to pass. down items. >> Books. That's right. Books. Denial of. death. We want something that lives. beyond us.

In the Holocaust, Victor Frankl. >> You're making You're making writing. death letters. Making videos for your kids, you know. what I mean? So they remember you. Interviewing your parents. >> That's right. >> You know, so that it your kids and their. kids and their kids and everyone down. the line knows who they were. >> Let me keep pressing you. You've got to. write your memoir. When the time is right. Look, you can. write Obama has four memoirs. You could. do it. He wrote four autobiographies. You can do yours now. Don't put off till tomorrow. You know. what? Alfred Nobel. incredible human being.

had no kids, no wife. He wrote his will a year before he died. There's a saying in the Talmud, write. your will the day before you die. Why? Because you don't know when you're. going to die. God forbid you should live. to 120. I. will say to you. But we don't know. We don't know how. much capacity we'll have. Some law could. change. Something could happen, right? Don't put it off. You were saying it's not time yet. >> What, writing a book? >> Yeah. >> I just I'm just not that into myself. >> It's not about you. Again, Sean, I hand.

you your great-great-grandfather's. memoir. I said, "Hey Sean, I found it. I. did some research. Italy, I don't know. where. Found it, and. I I got it. Cost me a lot of money, Sean. You know, I could give it to you, but. would you pay for it? How much would you pay for that? Your. grandmother. I I care who it is, Sean. Someday you're You are that person First. of all, you're that person to 6,500,000. people, whatever you. People want to know. And it doesn't mean. you reveal everything. I don't tell.

people person everything in person. This. is my autobiography. It's my first. autobiography. Maybe it's my last, I. don't know. I want to write more. Maybe. I will. I think I have one more book. left in me. That's the way I feel. Just. honestly, my energy, my age, my. commitments to my family, all right? But. this is a gift. It's not for you. Don't. think about it for you. Like, well, what. am I going to I don't want to Okay, so. that I bet you've done a lot of things. you didn't want to do in your life. >> I mean, my thoughts are all there. You. know what I mean? >> They're all there. The way I think, what. I believe in, what I don't like, what I. don't. >> Where in the podcast episode 45, man?

Where? >> It's in this. >> Shawn, as I love you and I love your. show and I've gone back and listened to. so many episodes. I'm not going to go. back to episode 45 to hear what you said. to that to that incredible guy, well, whatever the the other sniper guy or. what Like, and there's there's jewels in. there. And I'm not saying to write a. book about your podcast. >> What's that? It's all in there. >> It's all there, but. >> my kids to I'm not asking anybody to. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. But you also [clears throat] think. this is going to be this is going to be. it or there's another chapter in your.

life. There's more chapters. >> That's what I told you out there, you. know? We were talking about you brought up the. Sabbath again. You're like, you got to. take a day off. And what are you going. to do? Just keep being a big podcaster. And I said, this isn't the only [ __ ]. thing I've done in my life. A lot of these guys, this is the only. thing they've ever done. Right. This is. not the only thing I've ever done. >> Not by all means. >> I was a CIA contractor. Taught tactics. Like, I've done a lot of [ __ ]. >> Your husband. Yeah, a lot of the guys I. make fun of. I love these guys. I've. been on all their shows.

No wife, no kids, and you know, maybe. that's why they're so happy and then. they're they're loving the But but to me. the fullness of the life experience. You got to have kids. You got to have a. wife. You got to have someone that you. commit to and that you're selfless for. Yeah, you did that with your country and. that's that is so heroic. But when you. sacrifice for one woman. or for your kids, you know, people ask. me, "What's the meaning of life? You. know, what You're a cosmologist, you. study the universe." And they always. want to know, "What's What do you think. is the meaning of life?". I say for me it's it's an easy recipe.

First of all, you got to find a partner. And I even have a. I'm a nerd, right? So I had a. mathematical algorithm to find my wife, okay? >> Wait a minute, you had a you had a. mathematical algorithm to find your I. got to hear this [ __ ]. >> Okay. So. >> What does that even mean? >> It means. you take metrics, you know, what you. manage you measure, what you measure you. manage, right? So I kept records, you. know, just like dates and people's. personalities and things like that. Um. not like, you know, like this one, you. know, she had a freckle on her butt. I.

That wasn't it. Here's the algorithm in. simple terms. You should date. and there is mathematical science to. back this up, by the way. You should date and uh you know, for. some period of time. Once you're ready. and you're like No one's ever ready, by. the way. Like were you ready to get. married and like commit to one woman and. your the only woman you're ever going to. be with physically, intimately, build a. family No No one's ever ready for that. No one's ever ready for kids. No one's. ever ready probably for combat. Like you. can't be ready for it, right? These are. things that like make us uniquely human. But for me, I said, "Keep date for some. period of time. Keep a list of women.".

And you may date for women, you know, and I'm sorry, I know you've got women. that listen. I'm just going to speak for. my person. I'm going to talk only about. women, but it applies to women looking. for men. Date somebody. until you find the following person. If I had a daughter with this woman, would I be okay. if my daughter turned out to be like. this woman? Okay? So let's say I dated I dated a. cheerleader, I dated someone, you know, like just models I dated and wonderful.

people, whatever. I dated people that. were Jewish, people that were Catholic, people that were Muslim even, you know, I dated a whole bunch of people, right? And then. some I dated for selfish reasons, right? She's hot. You know, she's she's so fun. Like we just did the coolest things. together. Whatever. Like mostly it's cuz. she was hot. Okay? I have a lot of. weaknesses, John, but but that was one. of them. And. but I said, I don't know. Let's like let's just take it to the. extreme. Like. you're dating some like Playboy.

Playmate. I shouldn't say one of my. friends were Playboy playmates. You're dating some, you know, just super. hot, smoking hot Instagram model, right? >> [snorts]. >> Do you want your daughter to turn out. like that Instagram model? Do you want. her necessary Maybe she's a wonderful. person but but but I'm just saying that. one by that one dimension, I didn't want. my daughter to be like these people, right? Until I met my wife. And I said, God, if I had a daughter, I would I would get every gun in here. and I would protect this daughter if.

she's anything like my beautiful wife. I'd do anything. She's such that she is. with. a piece of human debris like me, you. know, that she is willing to be with me. and save my life and and give me life. and give me children. I I'd do anything. I found her. I knew. it when I found her. But only cuz I had a statistical sample, you know, for a few decades, you know, I. didn't get married until I was in my, you know, mid late 30s. Um. and that's when I knew. That's the.

algorithm. Stop dating when you meet the. girl whose daughter you would want to be. your daughter. Not this not the super. rich, you know, person, not the super. wealthy or smarter than any No. No. Famous, no. Someone that you want your daughter to. be like. That's how I stopped. That's the key dating algorithm. It's a good algorithm. Served me well. >> Good for you. >> So, and then as far as kids go, you know, no. one's ever. >> didn't work out, huh?

>> That's right. [laughter]. >> [gasps]. >> Yeah, that's right. My wife's not going. to watch this. So, um. but people talk about look look what. what's the meaning of life? Like how do. you live your life? I'm sure you've been happy at different. points. I'm sure you've been low at. different points. Like. happiness is what's called in physics an. unstable equilibrium point, right? Technically, if I have a pencil, there's. my You didn't ask me about my professor. EDC gear, okay? Here's my EDC as a. professor. It's the only thing I could. get on TSA, all right? It's a tactical.

pen. And I could theoretically balance this. on its point, okay? Um you know, I had. [clears throat] too much coffee. Uh I. ate too little gummy bears, but but it. could balance on its point, right? That's unstable equilibrium. The. lightest perturbation, a butterfly. flapping its wings, will knock this thing over far away, right? So it's an equilibrium means it's. stable, but it's unstable to fall over. Happiness in life is like that. You can. be in a state of happiness,

and you can be in a state of contentment. and flourishing, but it will never last. Because of a concept called entropy. Entropy is an irrevocable, irreversible. tendency for the universe to chaotically. and. ultimately to destroy. both information. and and stasis and equilibrium. And here's a here's an example I like to. give. Right now, let's say your. happiness is X, right?

This, you know, incredible. Everything. you've done, I don't know about your. personal life, but but I assume it's. it's it's fantastic. All right, so I say. Shawn, I want to double your happiness right. now. [snorts]. What would I have to do? If I gave you X. 2X money, 2X podcast downloads, 2X Instagram, would you be 2X happy? You'd be happier, maybe, but would you be 2X happy? Say. again. Would you be? I'm asking you. >> Probably not. >> No. You'd be Would you be any happier? >> I doubt it.

>> If you had twice as much money as you. have right now, think about what all you. could do differently. Well, I'm you know. I doubt it. I just remember like um Monty Burns in. in The Simpsons, he's the you know the. billionaire greedy billionaire guy. And. uh Homer Simpson one day. >> No, I watched this I saw this meme the. other day. >> Yeah. >> Maybe not a meme, a cartoon. >> Yeah. >> And it was this little kid fishing. And it just had the little cloud the. thought cloud coming out of his head and. what he wanted you know what what. everyone he wanted a [ __ ] new car.

>> [laughter]. >> And then he's in his new car and you see. the thought cloud coming out of his head. and that's what he wants now. Yeah, now. he wants. a plane. >> Yep. >> And then he gets the plane and there's a. thought cloud coming out of his head. and it's what he [clears throat] wants. next. And then the next thing is he's dead. >> Yeah. >> He just never stopped wanting. >> Never. >> And that's what I've noticed with the. money. The more money you make the more wants.

The more you're owned by your [ __ ]. sessions. Yeah. >> It's called the hedonic treadmill. >> more. >> Yeah, you never get off it. >> And uh. you know I feel like I've learned this. very early in my journey. >> Yeah. >> You know I think a lot of people. it takes a lot longer and a lot more. money to learn that lesson. But. no, I don't think money's going to bring. me more happiness. I don't. think. more subscribers, more viewers, more.

downloads, more better rankings, like. it's just. >> Right. >> So that's I mean the fun is the climb. up. >> Yeah. >> To me. >> Yeah. No, it's the. >> climb up. >> It's exactly. >> really [ __ ] cool doing It still is. I. love doing this. I love having this. conversation with you. But I am also a. competitive [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> And once I hit number one for the first. time. knowing I'm not going to stay there. because Rogan's the [ __ ] king and he. always will be. But. >> Yeah. I don't know if he always will be.

>> We'll talk about it. >> And. >> He Of course he always will be. >> I don't think so. >> I mean he he he he. I do. But I don't think anybody can take that. away from him. Somebody will outdo him. eventually. >> I think this guy, Steven Bartlett. >> He was the pioneer. >> He is the pioneer, he is the goat, but. the whole point, at least in my field, if I if this book is still relevant in. 100 years, I'll be a failure. You know. why? Because it means science will have. stagnated. It means that. >> No, but if somebody builds off that book.

for the next 100 years, >> Absolutely. Everyone owes their. >> [ __ ] set the trend, you're the king. of it. >> That's true. >> And Joe Rogan is the [ __ ] king of. podcasting. Everybody else that came. after him, no matter what they do, it was built off. the Joe Rogan [ __ ] podcast, one way. or another. Long-form discussion was. built off of him. >> But will he always be number one? >> Will he always be number one? >> No, obviously. >> Obviously won't be because he's a mortal. human being. >> So. >> But and eventually he will get tired of. this [ __ ].

>> Yeah. >> Somebody else will reinvent, >> That's all I'm saying. >> change the game, but. it's like Babe Ruth. Everybody still knows who the [ __ ] Babe. Ruth is, right? >> You know? And so anyways, what I was. getting at is no, I don't think any of. that None of that [ __ ] is going to bring. more happiness. It will drive your ego. through the [ __ ] roof. >> Yeah. >> And will probably ruin you as a person. >> 100%. >> of success and money, but it's not going to bring more. happiness. In fact, Jim Carrey.

has a really good quote. I wish. everybody could be rich and famous so. they know that's not the answer. >> Yep. But here's where I want to go with that, back to my pen sticking on its its its. tip, it's unstable, right? So, what you. describe is called the hedonic. treadmill. He hedonism is like seeking. pleasure, happiness, whatever, wellness, well-being, flourishing. It's a. treadmill because it never stops. You. just keep running on it. Someone's. always going to have more followers, or. want more money, or more women, more. guns, more whatever, right? That's going. to get to a point of more guns. I'm not. so sure about that. But, um but in any.

case But, let me ask you this. I said, "Could I double your happiness?" You. said, "Absolutely not. Are you crazy?". You said, "Could I increase your. happiness?" You're the first person I. ever talk asked that particular. question. You said, "No, you couldn't. increase my happiness by even a bit." Um. and I respect that. I'm not I'm not uh. disputing that whatsoever. >> with money. >> With money, okay. Or fame. >> or [ __ ]. >> material? Not not God, not not. >> I'll tell you how you can increase my. happiness. It's going to sound like a. [ __ ] punishment. You take all my. social media away. You take my phone.

away. You take my [ __ ] computer away. >> prescribed that to you on Saturday. >> And. >> Sunday, Sunday. >> And you take my occupation away and. force me to be with my [ __ ] family, where we don't have to worry about. money, how we're going to eat, how we're. going to get shelter, how we're going to. [ __ ] drink water. And that will. create a happy person. >> try for me? Will you try for me? I know. we don't know each other, but we try one. day. >> Now, think how [ __ ] easy it is. I. don't I'm sure you've done very well. You almost won the [ __ ] Nobel Prize, right? So, you've got to be financially. stable, at least.

>> a clear profit. >> and so you have the option right now. You could throw it all away, knowing. that you would probably be a happier. [ __ ] person. But, you're not going to do it. >> I I I can't throw it all away, but once. a week, I can throw it away. Once a week, I can see you not on the. phone. I can see you not on Instagram. I. can see you not doing podcast. I can see. you going to church. I can see you doing. with your family, your friends, your. community. Heck, you can drive. You. know, I'm not allowed to drive on.

Saturdays. I'm not allowed to use the. phone. You I'm not saying don't use. don't use your phone to call someone. I'm just saying. pull disconnect from the world. The. reason is and it's very beautiful and I. think it applies to you. The commandment in Hebrew and the fourth. commandment, which is you shall honor. the Sabbath, right? It doesn't just say. you should take off on Sunday or. Saturday and kind of chill out and watch. a football game. No, no, no. It says. It says six days you must work. in order that seventh day is a Sabbath, a rest day for God, Hashem. Meaning that.

the purpose of the week is you must earn. your freaking money. The Torah the the the Bible is very. explicit. If you don't work, you don't. eat. You can't rely on a miracle or even. other people. It's considered, you know, this isn't good to rely on other people. that they're just going to provide for. you. No, you have to do it. But if you. work seven days a week, I know billionaires. I I know superstars. and you know, millions of Instagram, whatever. They work 24/7. I said to. them, I told Steven Bartlett on his. podcast,

I said, "You're so successful. You work. seven days a week. Aren't you just a slave? Like, you may. be it may be to a good good, you know, outcome. You're doing great. If I could. buy a stock option on anybody, he's 32, handsome, fit, great guy, great friends. One has 100 people. His podcast is like, you know, it's almost as almost as big. as this, okay? And it's all he does. And. I'm like, "Steven, take it from me. I'm. an older man. You got to find a woman. You got to find. a wife. You got to make a family. And.

you got to take time off. If you cannot. do that, you are a slave. You're a rich. slave. I'm a slave, Shawn. I'd love to. be on on doing science every day of the. week. I could do podcast every day of. the week. It's it's a challenge for me. to turn it off. I don't like doing it. >> How do you turn it off? How do I turn it. off? >> When you celebrate the Sabbath, are you. telling me that none of your science is. in your head? >> That's not the issue. Science is in your. head cuz science is a vehicle to God. >> You know what I mean. Your work. >> I'm not I don't work on papers. I don't.

I told you. >> But it's in your head. That that's not Are you really able to. switch it all the way off? >> God is not like Kim Jong-un. You know, he's not he's not policing your. thoughts, right? So, he he doesn't care. if you're doing that. He cares if you're. on a podcast with someone you respect. the hell out of and and you did that and. you're not you're not in a temple or. you're not with your kids and you're not. with your wife and and you're and you're. kind of but he doesn't need it for him. God doesn't do this for for he's doing. it for you. You know, every 6 years in.

the in in the Old Testament, you're. supposed to let the land lay fallow and. not reap every year. How do they eat? So, you can go back and dispute and talk. about the side. Whatever. You had to let. the land every years and people would go. free. The slaves would go free. If you. had a slave, you'd let them go free. Every 49 years, you know, the word. Jubilee? That comes from Hebrew, the. Yovel, Jubal. It's a Jubilee every 50. years. Everybody would get their land. back. Every slave would go free. throughout the land. It's on the Liberty. Bell. It's on the freaking US Liberty. Bell. It says, you shall you shall.

declare freedom throughout the land and. liberty to all its inhabitants. We get. that from the Torah, from the old the. Old Testament. And it says freedom is is. the is not just that you do whatever you. want. It's that you're doing something. actively in pursuit of something bigger. than yourself. And on by the way, I. think you do this but you just don't. know it. So, the only thing I'm saying. is it's like an easy prescription from. this non-medical doctor, okay? But it's. the decoupling from the world and not I. don't care if somebody is tweeting about.

me because I said something about Avi. Loeb and I don't give a flying F. I could care less. I'm not checking it. I'm not seeing, oh, I got the banger. tweet. I got to get it out there. I got. to uh uh. I don't care. It can wait. You know why? Let's come back to the happiness thing. I told you and you agree and you you. have this Elkanah I'm saying it like, sorry Brian, like Elon Musk comes in. here and drops a billion dollars on it. You'd be Come on. You'd be a little. happy but you wouldn't be twice as. happy. You wouldn't be 10 times as. happy. But Sean, I'd be happy in the. moment. >> [ __ ] yeah. >> But that's not happiness.

>> But then it goes away. It goes away. >> But here's the here's the sick thing. about life. I can't make you happier guaranteed. Well, I can make you unhappier, guaranteed, right? This is entropy. Entropy is the concept of disorder, of. chaos, of randomness. The things that. make us happy, organization, structure, family, production, work, it's. organized, it's structure. The natural. order of the universe is towards. disorder and chaos. We must control it. by applying energy to reduce entropy.

>> I mean, happiness is a choice. >> Say more. Say more. Someone who's unhappy, depressed, they can't just choose it. Sometimes they need medication or. situation job change or something like. that, right? It's partially could be a. choice. But unhappiness. >> You have to choose when you wake up if. you're going to be pissed off. or if you're going to be happy. Right? >> Yeah. If you're healthy, yeah. But anyone who has kids, this is getting.

back to my meaning of life and how I. find me. Anyone who has kids, I don't even say. it. But I'm not going to I'm not going. to say it. I can't make you a little bit. happier, but I can make somebody. infinitely unhappy. I'm not saying I'm. going to do it, I'm just saying they. could become infi- I know billionaires, Shawn, that lost kids. Okay? You think they wouldn't trade all. their. billions. billions of billions more, be poverty, paupers, living in the gutter to have. their kids back, their sons back? Okay? So, you can make someone. infinitely unhappy, but you can only. make them finitely happy. That's.

entropy. What does that tell you? Do the things in life that if they got. taken away. would devastate you. It sounds. depressing as you know what. But that's what I think about. I want to construct order. I want to reduce entropy. I want to. create things, build things. Not for my. ego, not for my bank account. But for for the goodness, for the. benefit it brings to the world and. future.

I think that's what the meaning of life. is. I mean, I'm know. I'm a scientist, maybe maybe that doesn't apply to. everybody. I'm sure a lot of people be. happy with seven Instagram models and a. billion bucks, but. >> [laughter]. >> but maybe not. So, then again, you look. at the Torah, you look at the Bible. Anyone who had multiple wives, they they. were some of the most unhappy people. that you'll ever know about. So, guys. out there, be careful what you wish for. >> I got a hot question for you, ready? >> for it. >> Here we go, coming in hot. Back in 1950,

Enrico Fermi, a Nobel Prize-winning. physicist and one of the fathers of the. Atomic Age, was having lunch with. colleagues at Los Alamos when he asked a. question that still unsettles science. today. Where is everybody? The universe is enormous. It's ancient. And based on the sheer number of stars. and planets, it seems like life should. exist somewhere else. Yet, so far, we. have no confirmed signal, no confirmed.

contact, and no undeniable evidence that. another intelligent civilization is out. there. Can you break down what Fermi paradox. is? Yeah. >> One of the people he said that to was an. old friend of mine who's deceased now. named Herbie York. He's one of the. founders of UC San Diego. I miss him a. lot. He was a great person. Built the. atomic bomb and then spent many years, as many warriors do, advocating for. peace afterwards. No one knows more about wanting peace. and the goodness of peace, I guess, than.

you who fight the wars, right? So, he. helped develop the atomic bomb and he. was at that lunch with Enrico Fermi when. he posed this question, well, you know, kind of a side quest as they're building. the atomic bomb, right? So, the the concept is is that the. universe is vast, but let's just. restrict ourselves to the galaxy. Our galaxy is a few hundred that maybe a. hundred thousand light-years across, meaning light takes a hundred thousand. years to get from one edge of the galaxy. to the other edge. There's about 100. billion stars in our galaxy. There's.

about 100 billion galaxies in the. observable universe. That's 100 billion. squared stars in the observable. universe. Each one with 10 planets, call. it, around it. You get numbers that are. incomprehensible. A million million. million million planets in the. observable universe. 10 to the 24th. planets, right? So, it just becomes. crazy. And then you think, well, if only. 1% of them have life on it, that's 10 to. the 22nd power, you know, it's an insane. number. So, the universe is huge, there's a lot of opportunities for life,

for planets. And yet, as you say, we. have no evidence that rises above. scientific truth or evidentiary. standards. And this is going back 84. years when he said this in Los Alamos, right? >> Wow. >> So, this kind of shows you that back. then they didn't think they had. evidence. It was right before Roswell, by the way. And then nowadays we don't. we don't feel like consequential. evidence exists at the level of. scientific proof, right? Uh and even. those with the most invested in it, like. Avi Loeb, will not say, as he didn't. tell you. He didn't say we have.

definitive proof, right? He He said he's. a careful scientist, right? He said we. don't have evidence yet. And that's. fine. Does that mean they don't exist? Absolutely not. It could exist, and. there's many different reasons that. could explain why we don't see what we. don't see. Some of them come down to uh reasons, for example, that that have to do with. There's an equation called the Drake. equation. Uh radio An astronomer in the. '60s said, let's calculate how many. different life forms there could be in. the universe, and what it would take for. us to know that they're there. Okay? So,

what How many people are there? And it's. How many civilizations are there that we. could communicate with? In other words, if there's slime mold, if there's like. bacteria, you know, on a planet that's. you know, one. four light-years away, right? 10 year 10. four light, whatever you want, right? We. would never know they exist cuz they. They have technology to broadcast radio. waves and light waves for us to see. Or neutrino tractor beams or. gravitational wave They don't have. technology, right? So, it's this How do. we know how many technologically.

advanced civilizations there are. in order for us to be able to detect. them. Otherwise, we can't detect them, right? We're not going to the other star. systems. The fastest thing that humans. have ever made, Voyager, it's traveled. the farthest away from Earth. It's one. light day from the Earth. It was launched 55 years ago, before I. was born. And and in that sense, it's in you know, that that thing is the farthest we've. ever gone. It's only one light day. The. nearest star is four light years away. So, it's thousands of times closer than. that. And so, you know, effectively, we.

will not be able to find aliens unless. they send us information or come and. visit us. So, if if you say that they haven't, if. Fermi saying they haven't, we don't have. evidence, that has to be some. explanation for them. Otherwise, you. could say one one possibility is they. don't exist. Now, they might not exist now, but that. doesn't mean that they didn't exist in. the past. Right now, there's information from the 1936. Olympics. that's getting out. It's about 90 light.

years away from us. That was the first. time humans ever transmitted a globally. televised signal, a radio wave that could travel around. the world and go into outer space by. accident, leaking to outer space, right? That is now traveling at the speed of. light, 90 light years away from us. There's. approximately, you know, maybe a. thousand stars that live within a 90. light year radius of the planet Earth, right? Each one of them might have tens. of planets or something around them. That amount of information for them to. know about us, that's just for them to. know about us. That's not to send a.

return signal. That'll be twi- That'll. be 200 years from now, right? So, so the. the quickest we can ever send something. is it goes out at the speed of light, reaches a destination, and comes back to. us. That light signal left 100 years ago. It's gone almost 100 light years away. For us to hear back from them, we heard. you, you That'll take another 100 years. Does that make sense? >> Mhm. >> So, there's a sphere, it's a radius 100 light-years caught. Thousands stars plus or minus in them. And there's maybe 10,000 planets in. those. So, right now all we can say is we don't.

we don't know. There could be stars that. are half that distance, 50 light-years. away. Maybe there's 300 of those and. there's 3,000 planets on them. So, we all we can say is that volume of. space knows about us and could have. returned a signal to us. since we started broadcasting. information. We don't have any evidence. of that. Not for people not looking, but. that is such [laughter] a tiny. microscopic number. That's like that's. like a shot glass. out of the Pacific Ocean in terms of how.

much the vastness of the universe is. So, one thing is that space is very big. and the speed of light is very slow. even though it's the fastest speed you. could possibly travel at. Another solution that people have come. up with is that there's lots of life in. the universe, um but they tend to not live very long. cuz they have these things called wars. and they do battle among themselves. And. you see this at every level of. speciation from bacteria to. Beethoven. I mean, for to us, right? I.

mean, I don't tell you. Bacteria. have military campaigns against enemy. bacteria cultures. They secrete toxins. that preclude other bacteria. They spend. their biological resources to create. bacteriological trenches, warfare, to. prevent other bacteria from encroaching. on their precious, you know, goo that. they're eating. Every level of and that's the most. primitive life that we know about all. the way up to the most advanced life we.

know about, namely us. So, maybe they. only live so long. Maybe there's a paper. I read about recently. My friend Sabina Hossenfelder made a. video about it. Elon Musk is tweeting. about it. And it is uh, I I Avi Loeb is involved. in some way or or other. Um, it shows. there's might be an average lifetime of. a civilization. in order for us not to have seen anybody. of about 5,000 years. >> Wow. >> Which is like barely back to the. pyramids, right? >> [ __ ]. >> So, some say you you hit this this filter.

and then you get filtered out. The. question is are we past the filter? We're not yet there. So, there's a lot. of explanations. Another one that I like. is. um, I take my kids to the San Diego Zoo. And when I take them there, there's a. gorilla exhibit. And um, I love the gorillas, but it says. on the on the sign it says, "Don't knock. on the glass. It really bothers them.". You know, I mean, it just makes them. anxious, so don't do that. Of course, my. kids do that, right? Um, and then they. get kicked out. But, um, but what what. if, you know, you went instead of the.

San Diego Zoo, we go to the Wild Animal. Park. They're you're really far away. from the gorillas. You're not going to. knock on the glass. You don't even need. glass. You're really far away. You. observe them at a distance. Maybe there are things working, observing us at a distance, but as. interstellar species that has the. ability to come here or to sense our. activity and our presence, has advanced. technology, what is it that we're going to learn. from? I mean, have we learned that much. besides about the species of gorillas. and bacteria and what We learn about. those, but like I would say, um, you.

know, ornithologists study birds, right? But, an ornithologist needs a bird a lot. more than the birds need the. ornithologist, right? And birds don't. care if you study them or not, right? So, they might not be interested in us, might be able to do anything for the. them, we might not provide any. resources, they're going to eat us, and. that's why I'm skeptical of these. things. I don't know if you heard about. cattle mutilation and and like. abductions and things like that, near-death experiences. Um, there's only one near-death. experience that I believe in, by the. way. Um, 100% documented fact.

Um, which has to do with Alfred Nobel. Do you know the story? You know who. Alfred Nobel was? Um, he invented. dynamite. So, he was one of the richest. people in the world, kind of like Elon. Musk or Tesla of the 1800s and. he was. one of the richest people in all of. Europe and all of the world. And his. his family was involved with making. sea mines for the Russian and Crimean. war of 1840, something like that. And.

so, they were arms dealers, Alfred Nobel. and his father Emmanuel. And they were trying to invent ways to. make their methodology more lethal. And. one of Alfred's brothers, his baby. brother Emil, started to play around. with nitroglycerin. And nitroglycerin is. incredibly unstable. And one day he was. in the family laboratory and he dropped. it on the floor and it blew up, like. enormous explosion, vaporized him and. six other people, five other people. Six. people killed instantly and this.

devastated his father, Emmanuel Nobel. and Alfred as well. And Emmanuel ended up basically getting. committed to a sanatorium and then he. died eight years to the day of his son. His heart was broken, he had a stroke. and. just devastated him. And Alfred. set out to do something to make that. never happen again. And he took. nitroglycerin and he mixed it with a. type of basically like clay. It's called. diatomaceous earth and he mixed it. together like chalk or clay with.

nitroglycerin and it made it stable so. you could drop it and that became known. as dynamite. Dynamite in Greek means. powerful rock. Um, and he became one of the richest people. in the world based on that invention. But it was also used for munitions and. they sold in their arms factory. And reportedly he had indirectly been. responsible for the deaths of more. people than any person in human history. So much so. that at 1888 he's walking around Paris. and he sees a headline in the Parisian.

newspaper and it says it's Alfred Nobel, the merchant of death, is dead. The man who committed no benefit to. humanity and killed more people than any. other person in human history is dead. Now, now he's reading this, so he knows. it's not him. Turns out it was his older brother. Ludwig who died. Um, and so, you know, he was kind of sad. about that. But it was really a wake-up. call for him. He had no wife, he had no. kids. And he decided at that point, if he died.

then, that's the way the world was going. to remember him. Like, um, like George Bailey in A Wonderful Life, right? You know, he sees the Ghost of. Christmas Present, Ghost of Christmas. Past, and Scrooge, same exact story in A. Christmas Carol. He got a glimpse of what his own death. would be like, and he said, "I'm going. to change my life from now on. I don't. know how much longer I have to live." He. took this huge fortune, and he gave 99%. of it. to the Nobel Prize, and he established.

And its goal was to do what this. newspaper said he didn't do, which is to. make the greatest benefit to mankind. So, he created a prize for peace, for chemistry, for medicine, uh, for literature, and um, uh, for physics. How can I forget. physics? And these things have had tremendous. benefit. The first Nobel Prize ever. given was, uh, was in physics was for. the X-ray. The X-ray machine, which is, you know,

probably pulled bullets out of people. that you know. Like, it's had so much. benefit for diagnostic purposes. I had a. tooth ache, they had to pull, you know, the the X-ray has benefited humankind, and it's a physics invention. It's a. technology invention. And then the Nobel Peace Prize, which. has a very checkered past. One of my. friends, Uni Turretini, wrote a book. about how, you know, it's gone to like. Yasser Arafat and terrorists and and, uh, you know, and all sorts of, uh, assorted characters. Obama won it after. being in office for like 9 days.

So, it's been politicized. But, it still. has this noble LE goal of benefiting all. of mankind through science, through. peace. And And I think it's a wonderful. thing. And it wouldn't have happened. without this near-death experience that. Alfred Nobel encountered. So, that's the. only near-death experience, I believe. I. don't know. You might have other. stories. >> [clears throat]. >> Well, Brian, we're wrapping up the. interview here. Last question. Who would you recommend for the show? >> For this show? Oh, that's easy.

I don't know. If the internet can handle it, though. Uh Eric Weinstein. >> Eric Weinstein? >> Eric Weinstein is one of the. one of the foremost kind of. intellectual public intellectuals. He's. He's created concepts and and he's he's. incredibly um. He's just incredibly quotable. He's. incredibly courageous. Um He's incredibly He gets a lot of hate. cuz people he's so outspoken. And I have the distinction of being the.

only person that ever interviews him. that pushes back on him. And sometimes. we get fight like brothers. And we have a lot of respect for each. other. And I think you could you could. you could handle him. I think that. combination, his encyclopedic knowledge. of everything from. aliens, theoretical physics, um artificial intelligence, economics, and then his. very, very interesting perspective on.

the Epstein. He met Epstein. Epstein. knew about Eric's research. Maybe partially some weird Harvard. connection where Epstein had an office. in a and and a workspace. And he wasn't. a professor. He wasn't a PhD. And Eric. understands a lot more about Epstein I. think most people do because he saw it. from the financial component, the. physics component, the Harvard, the. institutional, all these different. perspectives, and he's just he's so. quotable and imaginative and he's such a.

good spirit, we call him mensch, he's a. mensch. That you and him together I think would. break break the internet live open. >> I'll text him. Yeah, I've never met him. I will though. >> You have his number though? >> I do have his number. >> Get in touch with him. I think he's. >> He'd be he's the one, no question. >> Well, thank you, Brian. Fascinating conversation. [music]. >> [music].

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