Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land? | SRS #213

Just want to say congratulations to the. American citizens. We had a huge win last night. I just got. word this morning about it. And what am. I talking about? I'm talking about. certain amount of US politicians, people. that we elected. were trying to sell in between two and. three million acres of public land. That's land that's ours, the American.

citizen. That's my land. That's your. land. That's land that Theodore. Roosevelt set aside for people like us. to enjoy and to do as we please on it. Now, what was happening is they wanted. to sell between 2 and 3 million acres of. public land for affordable housing. that would have affected a lot of people. and we got loud about it. I'm way late.

to this party, but we got loud about it and I got word. last night that we're going to pack this. into the big beautiful bill and it got. pushed out. They dropped it. But I don't think this is over. From my. understanding, this has been going on. for the better part of a decade, 10. years. And so I'm sure it's going to pop. up again even though the majority of the.

American people that I know, I've seen. poll after poll that says we do not want. our land sold. And so I want to say. thank you to a couple people that were. way ahead of me on this and I just I. just I have a tremendous amount of. respect for people that get loud on. certain issues because there's a lot of. fear that comes with that. So, I just I. want to say thank you to Cameron Haynes, to the guys over at Meat Eater, Jaco. Willink, Joe Rogan, Senator Tim Sheehy,

and most of all, Braxton McCoy, who had. the balls to come on my show and talk. about this. You know, I'm thanking them because when. you do this, when you go up against and. and and speak for the people and talk. about what you believe in that isn't in. the government's agenda, you carry a. ungodly amount of stress, a tremendous. amount of fear. I mean, what you're.

going up against is a corrupt. establishment, and it's sad. But they pulled it out of the bill. But. like I said, it's probably not over. Crazy, right? You know, I I I hate to. say this, but the US capital and the majority of. DC has turned into.

the world's most elite expensive. brothel. And they're always open for. business. so long as it benefits them, the ones sitting in office. And it's. disgusting. And I hate what our country has turned. into with this. It was never supposed to. be like this. It's supposed to be you. represent the people that elected you. And time and time again, I don't feel. like that's happening. It's disgusting. We need a third party.

I mean, when you speak out, this is why. I want to thank these guys, because when. you speak out, you're going up against. people who a couple of years ago before. they were elected probably didn't have. much. The majority of them didn't have. much. And time and time again, we see. elected officials and after a couple. years, they're millionaires. And after a. couple more years, they're worth. hundreds and hundreds of millions of. dollars on a salary that supposedly only.

pays about $200,000 a year. Now, how. does that happen? Well, that's why I say. it's become the most elite, most. expensive brothel in the world. Not only. that, you're going up a against a. corrupt government that would. potentially target you, put you in. prison, have the IRS audit you, make up. rumors about you, hire PR firms.

to dig into your background and find. every little mistake that you've made. just to push their agenda so that they. can get paid off. And it's disgusting. It is disgusting. We need a third party. You know, I fell into the trap of, oh, it's Republicans versus Democrats. Man, I know we have a lot of differences, but. this is one thing that everybody came. together on, and look what happened. We. at least postponed it. Like I said, I.

don't think it's over. We really need to. think about putting a third party. together because this [ __ ] is not. working. And I want to leave you with a. quote. might not be exact, but for evil to. prevail, all that needs to happen is for. good men to do nothing. And so. try to get past the fear, the. intimidation, the corruption, and just.

do what's right, man. Because I've got. kids, you've got kids. This is the future of. our country. And if people don't speak. up, the country is going to look a lot. different sooner than later. We're still releasing the Braxton McCoy. interview. And Braxton, man, kudos to. you, man, for having the courage to come. on my show and educate us on what's. going on. I know there's a tremendous. amount of fear. I feel it, too, man. But.

thank you. And thank you to everybody. else that I just mentioned. Cheers. Braxton McCoy, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for having me, Sean. You ready to. uh blow the doors off this thing? I. mean, I guess. I'm uh overstimulated and wired right. now, man. Yeah. Ready to go. Uh yeah. So, I I found you. Well, I was actually.

I was actually I saw a tweet from Joo. and I respect a lot of what Joo has to. say and you he had retweeted one of your. things and he just said he said pay. attention to this guy. So then I went. down the rabbit hole went through your X. feed saw you shouted me out and I think. Tucker and Rogan about the sale of. public land which I knew nothing about. So, I I retweeted it and said, "I'll be. in touch." And like an hour later, I.

started getting phone calls and text. messages from all these powerful people. on not to do it. And, you know, generally that means we're. right over the target. So, we didn't. really text anybody back cuz I don't. like it when people try to influence uh. who I bring and do not bring on the. show. That really [ __ ] pisses me off, you know? It's it's I thought everybody. was about free speech, but um guess not.

But um but anyway, so just proved to me. I was right over the target. We did have. a small conversation with with Lee's. office, uh who seems like he's the one. kind of leading this charge. And uh. Jeremy, he was supposed to they were. supposed to send something, right? Yeah, we were looking for a readout of his his. time with the Senate parliamentarian. yesterday. I haven't gotten it yet. Yeah, we haven't gotten it. Weird. But. um or maybe not. But um it's weird.

though cuz I like a lot of the stuff. that Lee has to say. But but um but this. seems. this seems uh like somebody's going to. make a lot of money off of national. parks and public land. So you seem to be. the guy to talk to. So, thanks for. coming. Well, thanks for having me. And. and when I tweeted that, I I wasn't. saying I'm the guy. I was just saying. like, "Let's find the right [ __ ]. guy." Uh, and then it kind of turned out. people seem to think that I am. So, that. wasn't me being like, "Put me on or.

whatever." No, I didn't mean I didn't. mean that. I just mean you you seem to. be the one that has the balls to get. loud on this. And a lot of people in. America now, they don't like to speak. up. They don't like to say what's on. their mind. and they don't like to hold. people accountable accountable. And I I. just I see you doing it and I respect. the [ __ ] out of that, man. Cuz I know. that takes balls. It's a lot of. pressure. Yeah. And um I know you're. going through a lot um of. stress for different reasons, which.

we'll get into later. But um but yeah, just thanks for coming and thanks for. bringing this to our attention because. like I said, I knew nothing about it and. um I enjoy our national parks. So yeah, in the So. national parks, he's he's telling the. truth when he says national parks are. not on the table. Okay. Sort of. But if. you look at a a place like Yellowstone. National Park, just as an example, cuz. that's what he kept saying. No one's. trying to sell Yellowstone. Mhm. Well,

the the ethos of the park is to preserve. this land for the sake of the animals. and the American people, right? Well, the park is at like 8,000 ft in the. mountains. It's below zero for a. significant portion of the year. That. park itself is actually just summer. range for the most part for these. animals. So, greater Yellowstone. ecosystem is about the size of Ohio. And. that part he's absolutely trying to. sell. So, the the animals are going to.

lose their winter range. I guess. Yellowstone, he's not going to pave over. a geyser, but the animals themselves are. going to be cooked if if this were to go. through. And for anyone that doubts, you know, he's tried to say that he's. only going to sell off this small. percentage of public lands. That's kind. of the the central claim he's making. But note that it always his land in. between just small amount is in between. two and 3 million acres, right? I think.

I think it's actually like 225 million. to 285 million if I'm correct. Yeah, that's the way I was reading it too is. the it looks like he's trying to set a. floor but no real ceiling. So the floor. is this must be sold off and then the. ceiling is these other 240 million acres. are to be evaluated. At least that's. what it looks like which is setting the. table for a selloff. And I know we'll. talk more about this later, but we have. processes in place for getting rid or.

the disposal of land already. What are those? What do you mean the. disposal of land? Well, that's kind of. the legal term that they use. It's. really like transfer to. uh a municipality or an organization for. development and growth, things like. that. that's covered under Flipma, which. is the Federal Land Policy and. Management Act in 1976. That thing is is there. It kind of it.

wrapped up a bunch of other older laws. into one new one that set a multiple use. mandate in place. And part of that. multiple use allows or part of that uh. act allows for the disposal of lands. It's like if a city needs to grow for. some reason like that's for example. that's how that ground in Las Vegas that. they took Trump out of context on I'm. sure if you saw that that ground got. developed it would have went through. Flipmo you know so we can do this.

already. Yeah. Yeah. You know with with. me it's like when does this end? Like. you know Theodore Roosevelt preserved. our land for for the American people to. hunt it, enjoy it, hike it, camp it. whatever you you know whatever whatever. outdoor activity you want to do and he. did that because of this exact reason. right yes capitalist. people you know the the elites will buy. up all the land and then there will be.

no public land left that's that's why he. did it and now we're trying to change. that and you know and the other reason I. brought John Braxton is because you know. more and more in the country it seems. like the American people. This just. keeps happening more and more over time. I don't give a [ __ ] which administration. it is. It's it's the the American. citizen is never heard. All we hear is. these [ __ ] politicians and it's.

becoming more and more clear. I mean, you see polls about all the [ __ ] that's. going on right now and how against. people are against what's happening and. nobody none of these politicians care, right? Almost none of them. No matter. what the issue is, they just keep going. against the people, the people that. elected them in. And I'm just fed up, man. I am so fed up with this [ __ ] But. anyways, let me read you a quick intro. We'll get into the into the nuts and. bolts of this whole thing here pretty.

soon. Braxton McCoy, a son of southern Utah, raised roping. cattle, hunting elk, and fishing with. your grandfather with public lands as. the backbone of your life. a combat. veteran who survived a suicide bomber in. Iraq, rebuilt your life at Walter Reed, and now you fight to keep America's. public lands from being sold off. Author. of The Glass Factory, Writing on the. Mountains, Writing on the Mountain. During Hunting season. You wrote it on.

the mountain during Hunting season. a. guide and advocate leading hunts since. 2015 in championing public lands since. 2016, declaring not one acre should be. lost to privatization. A rancher and a. horse trainer in Idaho, a patriot who. sees these lands is bought with blood. from Louiswis and Clark to Teddy. Roosevelt. And you're calling out. anyone, even senators, who dares to. auction them off. And like I said, the. reason the reason I found you was that.

that tweet from Joo that said, "We need. to pay attention to this." So, I dug in. and now here we are and we've done some. research on what Lee's doing and some of. the other people that are involved that. nobody knows about yet, I'm sure. And um. so we'll get into all that, but but. right off the bat uh I want to talk. about your ties to the land and and a. little bit of your patriotism, what. you've done for the country and all that. kind of stuff. So why does this mean so.

much to you? Man, I grew up uh we were a poor family. We didn't have a lot. It was common for. a lot of people down there. I was on. grew up on a small horse place. My old. man trained horses and did electrical. work to kind of keep uh make ends meet. there. My grandpa was a plumber. His dad had. been a dairyman and failed at that and. ended up having to move to the city, but.

he was a big- time outdoorsman. Him and. all of his brothers. Uh every one of his. brothers enlisted as well. And so some. since birth, the. the thing that uh we got to enjoy the. most as a family was public ground. You. know, we'd go out fishing and uh just, you know, just to look at is nice, too. One time, I think I was about 12, we. were up on the mountain and there was. some moose down in this pond and my.

grandma wanted to get footage of it. So, I got on the back of the four-wheeler. and she drove down there and I'm holding. on trying to watch and these it was a. cow calf and they started chasing us. So, I've got like this took this video. of a cow calf chasing us when I'm like. 12 bouncing on the back of this, you. know. So, just even little little. memories like that, man. My grandpa, he. was real good at tying flies. He's best. fisherman I ever seen. All of his. brothers really, but he he was a real.

good fisherman. we'd uh we'd go down to. the creeks and he'd get me set up and. say, "Okay, I'm going to go, you know, we'll see who catches the first fish.". And I'd be out there casting away. And. then he'd go sit down and wait for a bug. to land on him and catch and make sure. it was the right bug that looked like. they were eating. And then he'd get his. fly box out, tie on, and he'd start. whacking fish. I think trying to maybe. teach me a lesson that took 40 years to. learn.

But yeah, so it's like it's been my. whole life and uh you know I got family. in the cattle industry and a lot of. friends, you know, so a lot of time day. working as a kid day working like go out. and help move cows around or rope or. doctor or whatever you need to do. Mostly for us it was just helping. neighbors and then trying to get horses. worked because that was an income. source. So do ranchers use public land? Oh yeah, a ton of them do. And that's I.

was going to say I always I get all. uncomfortable with the word rancher. My. buddy and I have a beef operator or a. meat selling business. I don't consider myself a rancher. I. cowboy I guess uh horseman. I'm not I. think if in order to be a rancher, it's. got to be your fulltime gig. What makes. all your money? And it's really not that. for me. But I do love it and I love. cattle. And as far as uh ranchers using. the land, yeah, man. Uh in fact, a lot.

of small family ranches which are. already struggling, they'll be broken by this. They're. running some of them, not all, but some. of them are running like 9010 deed to. undeeded acreage. So like 10% of their. operation is on deed acres and 90% is on. public ground. Man, you know, I want I want to move. into some of your patriotism, too. I. mean, you would die for this. You almost. did die for this country. Yeah. And I.

mean, you know, the funny thing is is. you get you're getting attacked. I see. you've been called a communist. You've. been called all kinds of things. And you. know, you are a typical American who. served your country, got blown up by an. IED. You have nothing to win. you have. nothing personally to win for taking a. stand against this. Now, on the other. side, I don't know for a fact, but I. mean, there's a lot to lose, a lot of. money to lose by selling this off. I.

mean, what developers are going to. develop this land and all this stuff. So, and we'll get into all that in a. little bit, but I it's just I want to. bring that out like you personally have. nothing to gain. No financial incentive. You're not getting any land. You're not. you're not you don't I don't you don't. strike me as a person that wants to get. famous or you know be be having Twitter. wars. I mean none of that. And you're. just getting attacked for just. protecting American people's interest in.

public land. And so I want to just I. want you to go through a little bit of. your service if you don't mind to show. people you know you did fight for this. country. Did the people coming after you fight. for the country? Isn't that interesting? Yeah, it's always the way, right? Yes, it's always the way. Join me for our first ever live stream. debrief hosted exclusively on Vigilance. Elite Patreon. We'll unpack the China.

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school, man. I wanted to be outside. I liked reading books. Other than that, I pretty much hated the rest of it. I. liked science stuff, but I didn't really. care for school that much. I liked. riding bulls and chasing girls and. riding dirt bikes and kind of the. typical American thing. And then 9/11. happened and even though we all hated. New York City, those are still our. people. You know, it's more of a. brotherly piss on you kind of thing. But.

if somebody else takes a swing, you want. to take a swing back. So I enlisted and. I ended up over in Ramani in ' 05 06. time frame. Oh [ __ ] Yeah. A hot time. It was Yeah, it was busy man for sure. That. and typical kind of war. Tons of guys have way more combat. experience than me. You know, a few. gunfights here and there, some sniper. fire. U we we crashed a CH46 one time.

The pilots called it a hard landing, but. it felt like a damn crash to me, you. know? We were like 2 minutes off this. objective and the 46 those things are. like Vietnam war or Korean war era or. something and it got like an electrical. fire or some kind of thing and we ended. up back and we made it all the way back. to FOMI and hit the PLZ that big. concrete one there and then of course. got right back on a bird and flew back.

and did the stupid mission. Uh, so that. was kind of a lot of log pack security. type [ __ ] too, you know. Um, a. handful of actual PSD stuff, but for the. most part they just tasked us out into. we're very generalized, you know. Mhm. EOD needs a lift somewhere. Someone's in. a tick, you know, just kind of that sort. of stuff. And then on the 5th of. January, we were providing security for this. marine element that was that was.

recruiting Iraqis in order to send them. over to a different country to be. trained up to be police officers. And my. understanding as just an absolute idiot. on the ground was that they were having. a problem because they they were trying. to use Shia to police. Sunni neighborhoods in Rammani and that. was just not working out. So they said, "Okay, well let's recruit some Sunnis. and see if that might be a better gig.". So that was kind of the idea. And on the. third day, so the fifth would have been.

the fourth day, but on the third day was. it was supposed to be the end. The. recruitment drive was supposed to be. done and over with, but there were so. many people that had showed up that we. were out until like midnight and then we. finally had to just send people home. And the catch is there were there were. not even any slots left. We were doing. this for show at this point and. everybody knew it, but they were trying, you know, hearts and minds, all that. [ __ ]. So they said, "Okay, we got to go out. one more day." Well, they had only.

promised us three peaceful days and it's. Ramati in the beginning of '06. You could just about guarantee that. you're going to have an issue. And the. day before, either the day either the. day before or the day before that, we. had watched guys sit at a bus stop and. never get on anything. just watch us all. day. Violence. Yeah. And we passed that. up. So we we knew what was going on. And. then so on the 5th that morning, we go. to S2 and get the brief. And the brief.

is like, "Hey, you need to be on the. look for VBEDs. because they're going to attack you with. a V-bed." And he said, "All right." And. I even made the joke we get in the. trucks. And I I was like, "Well, let's. go get [ __ ] blown up, dude." Cuz. everybody knew. We get there to the this. place called the glass factory and it's. just like what you would imagine. It's a. factory. You've probably been there and. I haven't. Okay.

There's so it's just a a kind of a looks. like all the other factories over there. which are not all that different than. ours except for some architectural. differences. But it has this wall around. the sort of compound and that wall has a. big gate to let trucks in and then a man. gate to let people in. And we were using. the mang gate to let the dudes through, the Iraqi dudes through, and then wand. them and then send them in to be go. through the recruitment process, jumping. jacks and all that fun stuff. I I still. I still got videos of that. Uh.

and well, we get there that morning to. the man gate, dude, and there is like a. thousand Iraqis lined up at the door. already. And these pe these are not a. punctual people. So we we called up and. we're like, "Hey, this is a bad really. bad idea.". And they said, "Basically, Roger, continue mission, you know, like, all. right." So I I went and talked I was. Bravo team leader at this time and I.

went and talked to my first line leader. His name is Johnny. And I was like, "John, I I don't want to put guys out. there. This is stupid.". And so he and I decided we would go out. with our interpreter. We call we called him Carlos because we. thought he looked like he was from Warz. rather than Iraq. So we go out with. Carlos and just start asking questions. and pretty soon this guy and you know. just the typical stuff like why are you.

here on time? You know, why'd you get. here early? The guys they'd say well I just want a. good opportunity at the job or a shake. cleric told me to be here. And that is. usually a tip off. And so I'm in the. middle of talking to this dude and. another guy comes up and he's like. frantic and he's yelling and I know like. 13 words in Arabic or whatever and none. of them are like very kind. So I'm. trying I can't tell what he's saying and.

I asking Carlos, man, tell me help me. out here. I have no idea. And he says he. sees a bomb. And I said, okay, what kind of bomb? And. he says a bomb with wires. So my brain. immediately went to tripwire. No, he. said grenade. I'm sorry. Grenade. That's. what it was. Grenade. That's how Carlos. translated it to me anyway. And so I'm. thinking trip wire. So I radio up. We. had internal comms and then external. So. I radioed our team and was like, "Hey,

don't come out here. There's a trip wire. somewhere. You know, there's like a. thousand Iraqis wandering around. You. can barely keep these people." So I. said, "Don't come out here. We're going. to try to figure this out." And then. within what feels like moments, a. semi-truck crashes through our. concertina wire on the eastern. perimeter. And then of course everybody. lights it up. You know, we've told the. V-bed. Everyone's thinking that's a big. ass V-bed, you know. Uh so we take this. guy gets taken out and now there's. Iraqis running all over the place. You.

know, they think they're stuck between. literally a rock wall and a gunfight. So. they're going [ __ ] apeshit. and we've got this truck and driver to. deal with. And uh so now we actually. need help. And not too long after that, uh Lieutenant Colonel Mclofflin shows up. and a couple of dog handlers. So, Lieutenant Colonel Mack comes out with. his PSD team to start trying to help us. get people organized. There's a [ __ ].

Lieutenant Colonel out there with a. bunch of fives and sixes and fours, you. know? He's a very, very brave man. And. these dog handlers were Marines and we. had done a few like joint stuff with. those guys and they they said, "Hey, do. you want us to go get our dog?" And. Sergeant K's dog was sleeping on the. hood of my truck. I was like, "Yeah, go. get that sucker up, dude." So he comes. out and now we're getting these people. back in lines and we needed him in like. three different lines. One, do you have. a government ID? Do you have no.

government ID? Do you have a government. ID? But you worked for the bath party. cuz we can't employ, you know, Mc Bremer. made it so we couldn't employ bath. people. So, we needed to kind of filter. them through quickly once they went in. And right as we start to get everything. pretty stabilized, I hear and I'm on the radio actually. with my medic and I hear Bruno start. growling. and I remember I just looked up under my. cape and he's got this dude's arm in his.

mouth. this Iraqi dude. And then it next. thing is just two bright white flashes. like boom boom. And I wake up face down. I feel like I'm not even I don't even. know if I was fully conscious conscious. really face down. And I know I'm really. [ __ ] up. And I I can see. organs and stuff right here like kind of. under me. But my arm, the only thing I.

could really move very well was my right. elbow. And I got myself propped up on my right. elbow and was looking. and I thought, "Holy [ __ ] I got blown. in half." You know? So I my left humorus. had been broken, but my left hand. worked. So I was like rubbing this organ. through my fingers trying to see if I. could feel it. And I don't know, dude. I. felt anatomy. I don't know if you can. even feel organs like that, right? But.

I'm sitting here. and then I hear Johnny screaming my name. just like every everybody else, anybody. with a McCoy or Mac, whatever. It's just. Mac, right? And so I'm hearing Mac, Mac, and then next thing I know, I can feel. like a little weight off of my back. and then a little more weight and then. these organs kind of pulled out and I. could see the top of my hips. [ __ ] I. was like, "Fuck, at least, you know, at. least I got hips, right?" But I couldn't.

really see much more. And then they rolled me over. And when. they rolled me over, that's when I knew. my legs were totally screwed. That they. didn't like they were rolling like this, you know, wobbling. And what had happened is I. essentially everything that didn't have. armor on it got hit by ball bearings. And my right femur was busted in two. places, my left in three, my left tibia,

my left hip was broken in two spots, my. right hip in one, my radius and ner were. broken. The all the bones in my right. hand, my right median nerve was. transsected right here at my wrist. My. left humorus was broken. I had brain. injury, busted ribs, broken back. And I was laying there bleeding. And you. know, the first thought you have is. after seeing stuff, you think there's. just absolutely no [ __ ] way I'm going.

to live, you know? So then you start. doing that stupid [ __ ] like, you know, tell my mother I love her and and that. kind of stuff. And then my medic gets there and he. starts cutting my pants off to try to. assess, right? And pretty soon he goes, "Dude, you're not wearing any underwear, you know?". And I was like, "Fuck you, dude. It's. cold." Okay.

So, we're trying to have as much fun as. we can about it, but I think pretty much everybody. thought I was going to die, including. me. And every time, so your femurss, your. your glutes are so strong that when your. femurss break that bad, they contract. They pull together. So my femurss are. like as long as they were wide, which in. the end might have saved my life really. from bleeding out. But I could see every. time I would my heart would beat, water.

would or blood and kind of pus and stuff. would come out of all these different. holes. is like if you had a water bottle. and squeeze it rhythmically. And so they were trying to get that. stuff patched up and they pretty, you. know, I think they realized pretty. quickly that they just had to get me on. a medevac or I wasn't going to make it. And the medevac they had available was a. 5-tonon. So they threw me on a litter. and then put me on this 5tonon. And some.

sar major in his infinite wisdom had put. speed bumps on the road all the way from. Ogden Gate to uh Charlie Med. So you. know those five tons it's like riding on. a brick already. Yeah. And. so I'm just bouncing back there. rattling. I feel my bones inside. You. know I in my book I think I described it. as like a bag of wrenches you know. Damn. And they get me to Charlie Med and.

that's where they established. uh you know started getting blood. transfusions going in my arms. and then they put me on a bird. to try to medevac me to Bulad, you know, which is where you want to go. You want. to get to an air force base instead of. an army one, right? But uh we got in the. air and then I was bleeding out too. much. So we had to stop in TQ to. quadatum. You stop there to get more.

blood and then again we had to stop in. uh Fallujah. They had a Holy [ __ ] man. Yeah. And they had a trauma med center. there. and so they started that's where they. put the pickline in my neck, I think. So. at one point I had like eight quarts of. blood going in. But I I was developing. compartment syndrome in my legs. So, they're swelling internally and they. were doing everything they could to try. to save my legs, you know. So, at to uh.

uh Falluia, they got me in traction splints and I. hadn't had any pain meds yet because my. blood pressure was so low, they couldn't. hit me with morphine, you know. So they. grabbed my legs and they gave me like a. rag to bite on and and man, the the pain. was intense enough that I was in and out. anyway, I think. But I bit down on that and they got my. leg on those traction splints and. stretched them out. And then they took a.

a knife and cut obviously a surgical. knife, not like a buck knife or. something, but they split me from knee. to hip on both sides all the way up and. then put wound wax in to try to peel. that swelling and infection and that. kind of [ __ ] out. And then I went from. there to Bolad. and then from Bad to Landtool and then. from Landtool to Walter Reed. Holy [ __ ] man. Yeah, it was.

pretty intense. How long were you at. Walter Reed? The let's see, like three. or four months. The the army put. together a program at that time called. CBHCO, which was like community-based. healthc care organization or something. like that, one of these army acronyms. And there was what was really happening. is there were so many dudes that were. wounded at the time that they have they. were run out of beds, you know. So they. were trying to get guys once they were. eligible for outpatient care. They were.

trying to get them back to their. hometowns for civilian hospitals just to. offload. You know, they said it was. because they thought dudes would heal. better. And maybe they really did think. that, but I think it was probably. because they were running out of space. So I was there for like 3 months and. then I did outpatient in Utah for. another year and a half or so I think. something like that. Another few. surgeries and rehab like four times a. week you know physical rehab.

And then they retired me in August of. I think it was August of '07. It was 07. but I think August of 07. Damn. [ __ ]. You go through all that to be called a. communist. Yeah. From politicians. Nice. Yeah, man. Another It's real. classy. I try to not say this too much. because it's such a heated thing. But.

another thing is, man, I I volunteer as. a sheriff's deputy now. I got in a. gunfight last year for my community. Fire. I heard that. You mean to call me. a [ __ ] communist, dude? Well, let's get into let's get into. let's get into the history of this. I. read something about Lewis and Clark. So, give us a history of preservation of. of. land.

When somebody asks me how did we end up. with public land, my answer is conquest. war, treaties, purchase. That's how we. did it. If you go all the way back to the. Articles of Confederation, you can see. this idea emerge. that the people of the United States who. just fought this war to free themselves. of a king own this land. Now there were.

so at the time. Georgia. uh let's see Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia, Connecticut, Massachusetts, those states had made claims on land. that went all the way to the Mississippi. River. which what so that means that South. Carolina, Maryland, places like that are now. landlocked. So they're debating these. issues, trying to put together a. government, you know, while we're.

winning this war over here. And those. seven states who were landlocked were. saying, "Hey, wait a minute. This is our. blood and treasure on the line, too. You. don't get to just claim all of this. extra territory and lock us out of the. potential for growth and development and. all of that. So the agreement they come. to is that we will design state borders. and put the rest that will seed these. other states colonies at the time will. seed that land to the federal government. in the public trust for the betterment.

of this nation moving forward. So that. concession was made at the birth of this. nation. So that's the first war. Then. you go from there to stuff like the. Louisiana purchase. uh you know I don't know if you heard. but Napoleon was fighting a whole bunch. of people over there needed some money. and he finally said you know what how. about I just sell you this whole thing. for $15 million so we buy that and then. you've got other pieces like Treaty of. Guadalupe Hadalgo.

u the War of 1812 which eventually ended. up with land being seated to us the. whole 49th parallel stuff from the. British government and both Spanish and. Mexico. So basically war and conquest from that. point is how we won this this land back. I think that's a really important point. to start. So it's not me that's doing. the blood and soil thing. It's the. people who founded this country. So if you're going to call me a. communist, I guess you're going to have. to go back to the founding generation.

and call them communist cuz that's what. they thought. Lewis and Clark, no one really knew what we had bought in. this Louisiana purchase. We just knew. that it was a good deal and we had just. doubled the size of our country which. seems like a pretty good thing and they. did it for $15 million. It's not like it. was a huge expense. Now we were pretty. broke at the time but either way. So Jefferson establishes this core of.

discovery to put him out on a grand. expedition and he trusts his friend. Merryweather Lewis with this. Merryweather Lewis then recruits his. friend from the army, William Clark, and. they put together a team and go out and. what they're looking for is a Northwest. Passage. They wanted to find a a water. source that would run from the Pacific. to the Atlantic. So bas kind of in a way. trying to solve the problem that we. later solved with railroads, right?

So these guys go out. In my opinion, it's one of the bravest. things anyone's ever done. I mean, you. have some people thought there might be. freaking dinosaurs out there. They had. no idea what was still extent in the. wilderness. And so, they go out and uh. get on this boat about 50 people or so. I can't remember the exact number of. people. And they start pulling this boat. up this Missouri River having no clue. what's going to be, you know, at the end.

of it. the first winter they winter in. uh Manden, North Dakota, and they're. learning, they're, you know, meeting. natives and learning some things from. them, making trades with them, scaring. the [ __ ] out of them with our. technology, you know, stuff like that, trying to make peace where they can, see. who they can make peace with and who. they're going to have to fight as we uh. institute this whole manifest destiny. idea. And then the next year they go from.

there to essentially the the Rocky. Mountains. And in fact, so on the way through. there, what it in what is now modern-day. Montana, they find themselves. up against their very first grizzly. bear. And I I just kind of love this. story because Merryweather Lewis, if you. read his journals, he's like bragging in. there at different points about how he's. killed 300 bears. Like, I ain't no damn. bear. You know, all this.

And then he's out with a few other guys. and they run into this bear that he. describes as a white bear. You know, sometimes Grizz can look kind of silvery. backed. And there's two. and they're. watching him and they sneak up to about. 100 yards and him and this private both. shoot these two bears. and anyone who's black bear hunted. before knows like what you would expect. for the most part is that bear to run. away. Well, grizzly is a whole different. animal and the Indians have been trying.

to tell him this. You know, they called. it like the great white bear and stuff. like be careful with the great white. bear and well they shoot these things. and they immediately charge at them. So. they, you know, these are they're. shooting flip locks. So it's not like. they can just empty a mag into them. So. they turn and run and it gets to the. point where Lewis has to jump into the. Missouri River to try to get away from. this bear. It chased him for like 80. yards before it had uh you know, and it. get that one that chased him gets all.

the way to the river and then finally. starts to tire and doesn't come in the. water after him anymore. The other one had ran toward them and. then died. it was hit more in the heart. But uh then they go back and do like. examine these bears and he realizes how. big they are. And then he writes about. how different this place is and how wild. and difficult it's going to be to tame. You know, if the bears are this much. harder out here, then what else are we. going to find? And the one that he that.

chased him, he'd hit it through both. lungs. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, man. They're Grizz are no. [ __ ] for sure. Yeah. So I And even in my own life, I. enjoy I like just looking at Grizz, but. I take them pretty seriously. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's kind of where this. stuff starts. And then, you know, of course, eventually they make it back. Plenty of.

adventures along the way. and report. back to Jefferson like, "Hey, this is. what we found. There is no Northwest. Passage, but there's all this other. stuff." And in the meantime, that land. that had been seated to the federal. government, they were using some of it. to pay off soldiers. If you were a. private, I think you could get 100. acres, you know, you were an enlisted. man, you could get like 100 acres. And. then if you were, I think, a colonel or. above, you could do as many as 500. acres. And they were kind of starting to.

expand in that way. Another thing. Jefferson realized I think was one of. the this one of the most intelligent or. wise parts of the idea of manifest. destiny is he understood that we did not. have a military that could conquer the. amount of terrain that we had. He knew. it was not going to be possible. So the. next best resource is your American. people. You know the the average person. is pretty brave and durable too.

So, we're trying to move them out west. and establish. new states, provinces, towns, villages, all this kind of thing, farms, and that. So, that happens for, you. know, another little while. And then. just to kind of give a really broad. overview of how the lands ended up in. the situations they're in. Then we do. things like homestead axe and timber axe. and mineral axe and these kinds of.

things and we put them in place and say. go out and conquer more. We've got more. ground to take care of. And. what happens really quickly with the. homestead act type stuff is the further. west you get the more aid and austere. the ground gets. So we now we've got to. go from 160 acre homestead axe to, you. know, 300 or 380 or whatever it was and. then all the way up to like sections of. land because it takes more land to be. able to make a living on. Uh then we end up again I'm just giving.

you a very broad then we end up uh with. a timber baron problem and it wasn't. just you know the the robber baron. concept. It wasn't just timber barons. There was, you know, people that were. overg grazing and things like that, too. But to speak straight to the timber. baron thing that they were going out and. just clearcutting entire forests, you. know, they were trying to make money, man. And there there was this idea in. America. You see it with stuff like the. buffalo, too, where this was a totally.

endless resource that you could never. actually. uh extinguish. So, I I don't even think. they were that terrible of people. I I. really think that they thought there was. going to be another timber section and. another and you know by the time they. got to the end perhaps this other stuff. had have been grown back I think is kind. of their mindset but that was not what. was happening and then enter a guy. called Pino. and I could be saying his name wrong but. he was friends with Teddy and they're.

part of the Boon and Crockett club that. Teddy put together and his dad was a. Timber Baron. and instead Instead of passing that. business down to his son to go do the. same thing, he kind of had this ethos of. you're going to fix the stuff that I. screwed up because I overdid this. So he. sends him off to forestry school in like. Florida or not Florida, I'm sorry, France, Germany, and he goes and learns. about forestry management and then he. comes back and ends up working with.

Teddy on the preservation of these. forests. And this is after, of course, the Forest Act was put in place, I. think, in 1891. So, we'd had a couple of presidents. who'd made some national force before. Teddy, but Teddy's the one that Teddy. and Pino come in and they're the ones. that really get after. I think they. established like 100 national force to. be preserved. And I another thing I love. about those two is they they both were. like men's men. They love to box. They.

would go down in the basement and fight. each other all the time. and then they. go back up and just like work on policy. It's like a barracks, you know what I. mean? So, like this guy's not a [ __ ] you. know? And I guess I would say he's not a. communist either. And this is kind of where the ethos of. uh preservation and protection starts. in my opinion. And that's again a broad. overview. That's good. That's good. How. how much US land and acres is is is.

public? Do you know it? Yeah, it depends. on how So a thing they like to do is use. the term federal land. Now that's that. is a team. Certain a thing certain. politicians really like to do is use. terms that have a colloquial meaning and. a more legalistic meaning. So they'll. use terms like federal land because that. is how it's written in a lot of these. acts. But when he's. specifically him and some others when.

they use it, what they're trying to do. is get the American mind to conflate. military bases, Indian reservations, things like that with public accessible. ground so that you kind of think of it. all as one thing and it's really not. Uh, you see this in that red map that. everybody likes to post. Have you seen. that one? It's white and then it's just. all this red. Well, they've got national. parks and Indian reservations and. military bases wrapped up in that red. map. I think that's the, you know, the.

the main takeaway there. Sorry, I got myself distracted. What was. the actual question? How much how much. public land is there in acres in the US? BLM's got about 250. uh I think I think 245 million acres. Forest is like uh 130 or 150. National. parks is like 90. Uh, US sports or USF. the fish and wildlife stuff is right.

around 120 I think. All millions. Millions. Yes. Yeah. And those are the. ones. And then you you've got monuments, but monuments are wrapped up in forest. or you know they're wrapped up in other. agencies for the most part. So that's. kind of the basic layout of the total. acreage. I think it ends up around 600. million. Wow. Yeah. But don't let them. conflate military bases and Indian.

reservations. Is that Is that what. they're converting? Military bases and. Indian reservations? No, they can't. touch They know they can't touch Indian. reservations for That's what I've. thought. And I didn't think they could touch any. of it to be honest with you. Well, we do. have processes for that. This is conspiracy stuff in my brain. And this is not anything. This is just. an opinion and a thing to think about. here though. If a full. roll back, to use a term, were to be.

made on public lands, I think. reservations would sue the government. A fear there is, I don't know if you. know this, but we broke a lot of. treaties with these people. And if you. look at the ruling in Oklahoma, I think. it was last year, the year before, the. Supreme Court essentially ruled that 40%. of Oklahoma now belongs to the tribes. And now they're trying to work out. exactly what to do with that. You know,

if you've got a farm there, do you do. you pay your taxes to the tribes now or. how does that work? So that's being. fought and I think that you could see. you could see stuff like that happen in. the west easily. Now the conspiracy side. would be well if you're a developer that. sounds great. A lot of these reses need. money so you're just going to buy it. from the res now. Who cares, right? And. again that's conspiracy. Mhm. Makes.

sense. So, how long how long has this been how. long has this push been? Mike Lee's 2010. campaign was already talking about this. kind of stuff, but it's been going for. before that. It's not just him. There's. lots of other people. So, it's none of. this is new. I think they've already. lost three lawsuits trying to push for. essentially the same thing in different. ways. 2010 was it the same? What I.

understand is they want to build. affordable housing on public land. because of the housing crisis. But if I. remember right, 2010 land housing was. it's like a fire sale. Especially around. Utah, it took a little longer for the. 2008 2009 thing to hit southern Utah, the more rural areas. So yeah, it's. never really been about affordable. housing in my opinion. Also, this is another one of those terms.

that seems to be being used in kind of a. legalistic way and also a colloquial. way. Like, uh, my understanding as a lay. person is that affordable housing, section 8 kind of stuff comes with other. stipulations like there has to be. amenities for this stuff. Mental health. centers, roads, bridges, infrastructure, food. They have to have easy ready. access to food. kind of in a sense the. 15minute walkable city thing applies to. that in a sense. Uh and then affordable.

that sounds like, hey, my kid can't. afford a house right now. Build a house. that he can afford. Mhm. And that's the. part they're trying to sell people on. And I don't see I don't see how that's. actually going to come out of any of. this. Where where is the. like how many different states are. involved in this? How many difference in. the push? In the push. it's between 2 and 3 million acres.

Well, it would affect for the most part. it would affect the 11 the 11 western. states that have the most public land in. them. As far as who's pushing it. hardest, it's usually Utah. Has been. since forever. What do the people think? The people hate it. I mean, depending on. where you source your numbers, this is. either a 7525 issue or a 8020 issue. I. mean, the people hate it. They've never. wanted it.

Where what where is the land located. that they want to build all this stuff? I haven't seen an actual map. I've seen. a million. Right outside of the city or. is it far away? Well, that's the claim. that's being. made, but we we already have a process. in place for land that's near cities or. needs to be developed. So, I don't. I would like to see the map. You know,

one a person could speculate. there's this whole corner crossing fight. happening in the west right now. And are. you familiar with the concept of corner. crossing? No. As we were developing the West, one of. the ways we paid for the railroads was. to give them land. What that ended up with is land that. looks like an actual checkerboard. So, there'll be a chunk of land here that is.

privately owned and then a chunk of. public and so on and so forth. And it. builds this checkerboard looking. pattern. Some states were trying to block. sportsmen and others from crossing over. the corner between those two chunks of. land. And the land owner was saying. essentially, you're violating my. airspace by doing that. In some states, I think you own about 200 ft of the air. above your house, which is probably a. good thing. It should be illegal to fly.

a drone over my house, right? But that's. that's not really what you're doing. and. you're crossing, you know, h I guess. half of your body or something is. crossing it. But so that fight is going. on and it looks like sportsmen are going. to have a big win on this thing and I. imagine that the land owners who own. those sections that have been trying to. keep people out are not very happy about. this potential win for the common man. So that's one person who or one group.

type of people that I would say stands. to benefit from this a lot. Then they can just swoop up those. sections that are locked in between. their land. Is that Are those the. sections that are going up for sale? Supposedly going up for sale. Man, the. language seems to have changed so many. times that I don't it's really it's. getting hard to argue with because it. keeps the goalposts keep getting moved. But I would say yeah, for sure. A.

another weird thing about that is we've. done land swaps with those kind of. people before. In fact, I know of one in. a different state. I I can't and don't. want to out the person in uh the group. involved in it. But it would probably. benefit both sportsmen and uh this. wealthy land owner if this were to. happen because their their place is. giant. it would be cut in half and now. there would just be two contiguous. tracks of land because they would swap. with each other across the board. It.

would have to be approved during a. public comment period like public input. has to be involved and if the public. says yeah let's make that swap that's. better for us both then good. So things. like this can already happen. Interesting. Interesting. What are some. of the what what are the what is this. public land being used for right now? Hunting, fishing, recreating. Uh I think the word scenic is actually.

used too. So just for looking at which. is a value uh in my opinion unto itself, hiking, camping, looking at the freaking stars, you know, it's one of the least light polluted. areas in the world. it it's a place where the everyday. American can go live like a king used to. essentially like we're all little petty. kings out there we can kind of do. whatever we want and some people say. well it cost you money to get on that's. okay at national parks or developed.

campgrounds but on undeveloped ground. doesn't cost you anything you can just. go out and use it whenever you want even. if you live in Hoboken New Jersey you. know so that's what it's being used for. and a there is that is some of the stuff. that it's being used for. There's a. multiple mandate multiple use mandate in. place right now under Flipma, which is. the federal land and policy management. act. Uh what that multiple use mandate. guarantees is the preservation of the.

land. for the use for its own value and also. for the use of the American people. So. for recreating, grazing, extraction, in the past, I would argue from a conservative. right-wing perspective that a lot of the. managers within these agencies have. stood in the way of parts of that. multiple use. You can just imagine.

someone saying, "Uh, well, I I want to. bid on this piece of timber. here's our. reason why we think this will fit within. Flipma and I want to go through that. process. and then it gets stalled by bureaucrats. within an agency. So I can understand the frustration. because I think FlipMa gets abused in a. lot of ways under like NEPA and and. others. What is FLMA? uh Federal Land. and Policy Management Act,

but it's. it has been abused for sure, but it's. also been used well. I mean, guys are. still out grazing. You know, some of. them maybe not as long as they want to, and there's probably strong arguments in. some of these cases for being able to. graze a little more than they're grazing. now, but it's they're at least out there. grazing. Guys are still out there. hunting. They're still out there. fishing. you know, they're still out. there with their family. Timber. extraction, mining, uh, oil extraction,

all of that is still happening on public. lands. Perhaps not the scale that. everybody wants, but it is happening. Another thing that we have in place that. a lot of people don't know about that I. actually think is terrible in a lot of. ways is you can hard mineral claims. My. understanding is that that old law that. goes clear back to like 1871 is still in. place. I think it was the hard minerals. act. I can't remember the exact name but. it within that act it establishes that.

anyone including a foreigner can come. here and if they find hard minerals and. get a claim approved they can mine it. and under that system the federal. government gets nothing from it. Whereas. in other uh extractionary processes they. get a percentage. So I think on uh. minerals like lithium I think the. federal government gets a sub 10% as far. as uh revenue sharing goes. I think the. states on those same things get. something like 4%. I don't quote me on.

all these numbers but it's something. like that the revenue sharing process. and a lot of these minds are foreign. people you know I think that's a a real. problem that should be addressed but. nobody seems to want to address that. You mentioned something about putting. refugee camps on the land, too. Well, the ter there's a whole shitload of. money going into refugee resettlement in. the West. If you go to Randoland on. Twitter, you can see look at these.

grants yourself. I mean, it's like 10. million, 4 million, 12 million all for. different refugee resettlement. So, when. I hear affordable housing, I'm sorry. I. guess I'm a conspiracy theorist, but my. alarm bells start triggering. Mhm. Mhm. I mean, there's something to it, right? I mean, you're getting attacked for. speaking out. I mean, how how are you. how are you getting attacked? Why are they coming after you? In some. ways, I don't know. I I was told.

that they hired a firm to dig into me, dig dirt up on me or whatever. Who's. they? Uh, I was told specifically it was. uh I don't want to get sued over here, but I was told specifically so allegedly. here that it was Michael Lee's camp that. did that. You know, whether that's true or not, I. don't know. How am I going to confirm. that? If you're any good at digging into. somebody, you probably don't call them. and tell them you're doing it, you know. Uh, so that's one way. And then I don't.

know. Sounds like you got some calls. Oh, yeah. We got we got some we got some. calls. That's for sure. Like I said, that's how I was like, "Oh man, this is. we must be over the target here because. a lot of people are telling me don't do. this interview. Don't do it." But. but like I said, now then when that. happens, I feel like I have to do it. But I feel like it's my duty to do it. And but what what are some of the I mean.

so it's affordable housing, potential. refugee camps, section 8 housing. What else? Anything. else? Well, they're trying to say the. section 8 thing might not be in play, but the director of HUD. said as much just a few months ago. You. know, he straight up said, "We want to. build 7 million homes." That's what he. said. 7 million. That was the term. And. if you look at numbers, man, let's say 7.

million and call it three people to a. home. So 21 million people. Well, there's 500,000 rough or 600,000 people. in Mont Wyoming. Montana's got about a. million. Idaho's got like 1.8. Utah's. got like 3.5. So you you're going to put. 21 million people in there. I think. there's something like around 200,000. voters in Wyoming. How many do you think.

it would take to flip. that state? 50,000. It's the number sure as hell is not a. million. I know that. Mhm. You put a. million people even in a state like. Utah. Utah they voted this last don't. quote me on these hard numbers, but they. voted something like 5545. And that's what Trump, who is a once-. ina-lifetime figure, politician, he's. extremely popular. So, how red verse blue are they now with. all these this growth? And these states.

have already doubled in population since. the year 2000. I think Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Arizona have all. doubled. Nevada as well have all doubled. since like the year 2000. And if you went to an old an old local, ask them if they think things have. gotten better. I mean, oh yeah, I hear. it all the time. Especially after co. every time I go out west, that's it's. what it's what they're bitching about. The California people.

every single time. Yeah. But Montana, Arizona, Nevada, Tennessee, literally Texas, everywhere I go, that's. what they [ __ ] about, you know, is. we're being evaded by California. But um. but. man, I want to talk about actually, let's take a quick break, okay? And then. we'll we'll pick up. Have you ever browsed in incognito mode?

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Go to shopify.comsrs. shopify.com/srs. All right, Braxton, we're back from the. break. Uh, I forgot to give you. something at the beginning. Everybody. gets a gift. Yeah, I was getting I was. pissing myself off by going through all. this. Thank you. Vigilance lead gummy. bears legal in all 50 states. It's just. candy. Not going to feel weird after.

you. A little sugar high, but um yeah. So, you know, I saw this uh. everything seems to be like very vague. on this and and. like it I just watched this thing on uh. Charlie Kirks where Lee was on he called. in and they were talking about map 444. which actually 444 is a big number to.

me. I think that uh that's I think that. that's how God speaks to me. Okay. Is. the number 444. And uh I just saw this clip this. morning, but it was it was saying that. the fearmongers are using map 444, but the reality is it's map 443. and you know and and. but it doesn't seem like there's any. clear. clarification on what exact land. Now,

he did say it was adjacent to basically. adjacent to to towns or places that are. occupied with people and and that it's. it it made it seem that it was right. outside of town. But, I mean, my fear is. when does this end? Like, the minute we. do that, then it goes on and then it. goes on and then we do start getting. into the national parks. I want to know what the what the.

financial incentives are here because. the people seem to be clearly speaking. up saying no this isn't what we want to. do. And you know, another thing that. came to my mind just on the break is I. just interviewed um really good guy. His. name's Augustus Doro. He's doing cloud. seating, which is another super. controversial topic, right? But he had. said in his interview that I believe he. said within 10 years all the aquifers. out west. will be run dry. There's not enough.

water out there. So, where are they. going to get the water to bring in 7. million homes when all the aquifers. there are going to be depleted within 10. years? I mean, how are they going to how. are they going to do the water? They I. have asked this question multiple times. and I don't get an answer. So, I guess. let me know if you get one. There isn't. water. I mean, clear back to when John. Wesley Pal first surveyed it, they knew.

there was no water. He was writing back. saying, "Look, man, this is the much of. the territory out west is just not. suitable for uh agriculture and things. like that. It just isn't. It's too dry. Utah's the second driest state in the. union. I think their average annual. precept is around precipitation rate is. around 12 in. The only one drier than. that is Nevada. If you look at the. Colorado River system, I think Lake Me's. down 150 ft right now. They're getting.

to a point, from what I' I've heard, they're getting to a point where they're. now starting to worry about issues with. uh drawing power from the hydroelectric. dams if they keep I think in 2026 the. Colorado River Compact is supposed to. have an update. So, percentages will. change. Uh percentages are drawn from. each will change. I was at my in-laws. a couple weeks ago and I was watching. local news. There was a 20 minute piece.

about how there's just no they need to. build homes around Washington County, St. George, that kind of stuff. And. there's just no place to do it. We, you. know, we don't have room, you know, etc. Clearly trying to sell this bill to. people. It was a realtor and a. politician for the most part talking and. then maybe a Saab story from some person. that probably moved there from. California whose kid can't buy a house, which I'm receptive to, man. Home prices. are ridiculous in the West. So, I I get.

that argument. But the realtor was. saying things like, uh, if I built if I. could get 1,500 new homes in this area, I could have them sold before they were. done being built, you know, stuff like. that. Obviously, real estate developers. would enjoy that. Realtors would enjoy. that. But then the water question comes. up and even in this piece, there's just. some weird vagaries. They say, "Oh, we're going to build six new reservoirs. down here." Like, okay, well, you can.

build a dam, but you have to have water. to fill the reservoir. I mean, Utah. specifically knows this because when I. interviewed Augustus, Utah is one of the. states that is is they're worried that. the salt lake is going to dry up. Yeah. Right. And so, they have him cloud. seeding, trying to bring water into that. valley. and. and I can't remember the other states. that are working with them on this, but. the all of the western states are.

worried about the water supply. The. other thing is, you know, if we're. talking about affordable housing, then. why aren't we fixing cities like. Baltimore, Washington DC, St. Louis, Chicago, all I mean, we have affordable. housing all over the place and it's a. disaster. It's a disaster. So what why. are we just. putting new sections of it all over the. map when we could just fix what we. already have? I mean you see these. dilapitated buildings all over the.

place. Redevelop that. Yeah. You know. and so there has to be some kind of a. financial incentive I would think for. for this hard of a push plus all the. push back I got about having bringing. about bringing you on the show. I mean. that was like a siren going off in my. head. And so I wanted to I wanted to ask. you about uh this gentleman. We kind of. looked into him a little bit, but Clint. Brown, the president of American Path. Initiative, 501c4.

I'd never even heard of a 501c4 before, but apparently. apparently it is a organization that. you don't have to the you don't have to. report all of them the money. So, it's. it's a great way to send dark money to. whoever you want. And from from what I. Jeremy, can you can you give us a quick. lowdown on Clint on Clint Brown? Yep. As. you said, he's the uh president of. American Path Initiative. He's also uh.

responsible for helping get Cash Patel. through his uh FBI director nomination. in the Senate. And uh he was a uh he. worked in the Senate with Mike Lee uh. for over a year. He worked in the Senate. with Mike Lee on the staff. Is Mike Lee. attached to this president of American. path initiative 501c4? Because he's a. political candidate. He can't be. attached to a uh to a 501c4. He's got. he's got real ties with this guy though, right? And it would be a great way he.

has worked with him in the past. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Do you know about this guy? I've had. Twitter interactions with him. That's. about all I know besides what you guys. just said, I guess. Maybe. Did he make a burner ex. account to come after you? I I could. never prove that, but it was funny. This. rando account was only responding to my.

tweets. and it was like calling me gay and [ __ ]. you know, doing like 20-year-old. Brokeback Mountain jokes, that kind of. thing. Like, you think I haven't heard. that [ __ ] you know? Like what the [ __ ]. dude? And the thing about that, dude, when they do that, it it drives me. crazy, too, because that here's some. film written by some Skittles person. like however many years ago that's. trying to denigrate our culture and then. we've absorbed it into our own lexicon.

You know, that annoys me. But other than. that, uh that's not new. Well, this this. account. eventually after I went and looked at it. and looked at all the replies, eventually I just said, "Is this you, Clint?" And it replied, "No.". Uh, which is a funny way. I think if I was running a burner, I'd. probably, and again, I don't know, right? I'm just speculating. I have no. idea. I could never prove this. Not even. necessarily attempting to, but I would.

probably say something like, "Who the. [ __ ] is Braxton?" or whatever. I'd. probably be smarter about it than to. just write no and then it deleted itself. right after that. Oh, the whole account. disappeared. Yeah, I took screenshots. cuz I thought it was really weird. Interesting. We'll put those screenshots. up. You got them? Yeah, they're on my. phone. Yeah. Perfect. Have they. identified the Actually, let's put in. his LinkedIn uh as well. We'll we'll put. a a screenshot of this guy's LinkedIn on.

there just so people know I'm not just. making [ __ ] up out of thin air. But um. but have they identified the developers. or is Black Rockck involved? Black. Rockck's buying up neighborhoods at a. time and and you know who who are the. developers that are going to develop. this land if it if it does get sold? I. mean, who would it be sold to? Would it. be sold to the developer? These are all questions I'd like answers.

to. I I don't know. Uh. I know that. when. Senator Lee has accused me of lying. uh to his constituents, I have posted. underneath a list of his donors and said. and he said I was being paid. No one's. paying me. I mean, no one I've never. been paid for public land advocacy ever. Uh I mean, people have uh organizations. have bought flights, you know, but no.

one's ever paid me for it. I've always. done a volunteer. In fact, I bought my. own flights down here just cuz I thought. it was so important, right? It's like. I'm not I'm don't mean that anything by. that other than to say no one's paying. me. So, when he has said that, uh I have posted underneath here's a. list of your top donors. No one's paying. me to lie. Who's paying you to lie? and. no one ever responds. And on that list, you've got stuff like Crub for Club for. Growth, Microsoft, uh, Blackstone.

I can't remember what the others are, but I've got those on my phone as well. So, Blackstone, from what I understand, is, you know, private equity equity type. stuff that invests in this kind of. thing. I think Utah is fourth in the. nation for private equity investment in. single family homes. So, I don't think it'd be too difficult. to start drawing lines if a person. wanted to or knew how. I mean, I'm an. idiot. I don't know how to do this. stuff. I barely The only reason I do any.

good on Twitter is it's just an app that. is really easy to use. I'm not good at. tech, man. How did you get involved in. this? How did it pop up on your radar? Well, I've been arguing with this guy. about this issue. This guy is in Senator. Lee. Senator Lee. Yeah. Since 20 at. least 20 something. I mean, you've been. in an in his office. You've Okay. Yeah. Let's go through this whole timeline of. of how you got started. There was a now Senator Lee and I.

believe Ted Cruz and some other. politicians had put together this thing. they were calling the public lands. initiative which was a push to seed in. their terms back these lands back to the. states which is a total misnomer because. the if you go to the Utah Enablement Act. there's language in there that straight. up says here's your 7 million acres you. never get anymore. And I I think I sent. you guys the screenshots of that so you.

can put it up. It says you're not. entitled to anymore basically ever, you. know, but in lawyer speak. So it was. never their land to begin with. But. that's a good way to push this kind of. thing onto the public cuz like if you if. you take somebody who's got a grazing. aotment in southern Utah for example, if. he's got an issue with a riparian area, so he's trying to fix some kind of water. on his place and it's BLM, it is much. harder to get that done through the BLM.

than it is on state ground because there. are a lotments on state ground as well. What does the BLM stand for again? Bureau of Land Management. Okay. And Utah has a thing called uh SITLA. that covers most of their state lands. It's like uh student initiative teacher. some [ __ ] It basically it covers uh. that that these lands are managed to. make money for the department of. education. Well, if you wanted to fix some stuff on.

a riparian area on state land, it's way. easier just as an example. And they'll. even get let you use your equipment and. time and stuff like this as an inind. contribution. So, it's cheaper. I can. totally understand why a guy who's a. rancher down there would prefer state. management to uh BLM management on an. aotment. But from a political perspect. or from the perspective of the people. that are pushing this, they know that if. that land were to be seated to not back.

to but seated to the state, there's a. pro provision in the constitution that. says that the state constitution which. is true of this is true of basically. every western state I know of. There's a. provision in there that says any land. held in our trust has to be managed to. essentially highest maximum value. So it. has to make money. Well, I mean I don't. think I need to explain to people a.

grazing allotment is not going to make. as much as a data center or something. So you've just set it up for being sold. off by transferring it into state. control unless the constitutions were to. be amended. So, are you saying they. might be putting data centers. out there, too? It's just speculation, but yeah, I don't see why you wouldn't. if AI is the future, as everybody's. saying. You know, we've got to build our. our demonic overlords. Just from a financial perspective, it's.

got to be cooler to run them in the. Mountain West where you've got 6 months. of winter and a lot of wind. And I'm. sure these, you know, I know c uh. computers get hot fast. I'd imagine. giant ass computers get hot even faster. and are expensive to cool. So just one. reason to move them out there. Another. reason is they'd be very remote and a. lot easier to harden. You know, if you think of it from a.

tactical perspective, if you put a data. center in the middle of like six. sections of land, you can get this thing. out of mortar range or whatever if. that's something you were worried about. So you put that in the middle and then. you hire security and you've got a suite. set up for your data center. Bring in. some H-1Bs and put them on there and I. guess but this is this is speculation. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Let's let's not do. speculation. Let's just do let's just do. facts. So let's move into.

even the voting stuff that you. mentioned. I I understand it, but I. don't think that is, me personally, I don't think that is a. legitimate argument about, you know, well, the state might flip. Well, if the. state flips, the [ __ ] state flips. Like, people live there now and they. have a right to vote. But, but my my concern is this is our land. It's my land, your land. this American. Americans land that they're able to. enjoy like the Theodore Roosevelt wanted.

us to and now. it's potentially going up for sale. So, let's let's start with how you how you. got involved. So, when this public land initiative was. going, I before I learned more about. this, I had been amanable to the idea of. transferring to the states. It's it's a. really easy sell if you don't get in the. weeds because a guy of course local. control sounds better, right? So I. thought, yeah, this would be much better.

for everybody. Give us our land back, that kind of thing. But when you look. into the details of it, that's not like. you're not likely to keep it. And when. Teddy and others put this thing. together, the idea was that it belonged. not just to us, but to those yet in the. womb of time, to our grandchildren. Right. Well, I joined an organization. that was supposed to be like a. nonpartisan organization. and got involved with them doing. advocacy stuff. In fact, my wife still.

[ __ ] at me to this day because I I. had forgotten about this, but I guess. the day before we got married, I went to. a trade show to do advocacy for this. stuff. And so, she had to go to a trade. show for a few hours and she's still. pissed about it, you know, eight or 10. years later, you know. Um, so I joined. this organization. and I get invited into state leadership. I actually didn't want to be in state. leadership. I just wanted to try to. provide the perspective of someone that.

didn't live in Salt Lake, you know, like. a liberal perspective. I wanted to have. our voices involved. So I was going to. these meetings and, you know, pushing my. What do you mean you got elected into. state leadership? The organization has. an election process. So they elected me. and put me in a southern Utah chapter. board leader or whatever title they had. And again, I didn't even This is not. something I desired in any way. Mhm. So. that meant I needed to go to this. rendevous in Missoula. So I went up.

there. and attended some of their workshops, hung out at the beer garden, went to the. lectures, all that kind of stuff. But at. one point there was this ethics panel. and it was some very smart people up. there on this ethics panel and they were. deliberating on the ethics, the. difference between. morality and legislation and other nerd. stuff. And I when it came question. answer time, I got a mic and was just.

like I actually don't think you guys. understand the difference between morals. and laws at all. And I presented a. scenario that was basically if a deer is. stuck in a fence. If you shoot it without permission, you're breaking the law. But if you. leave this thing whose leg is completely. ripped up and is going to die anyway to. suffer, then you've cut against your. morality. So there's just a real easy. delineation between the two things. And.

I was saying, you guys are trying to. argue that ethics are forced on us by. laws. And I think the exact opposite is. true. Law should reflect our ethics and. morals. So after presenting that, some. people came to me and said, "We want you. to go to DC and lobby." Uh, well, advocate. I don't even know what the. right term is. Okay? I don't want to get. anybody in trouble. Whatever the hell. the right term is, either lobby or. advocacy. So I went and presented my case to our.

representatives in DC, those that I. could get time facetime with, which was. at that time was basically all of them. or uh their high up staff people, which. is who you really want to talk to anyway. for the most part. And at one point I'm in. Lee's office and I don't want to get any. family in trouble, but. they one of his staffers ends up cuz. we're arguing about this transfer idea. and I was saying for all the reasons I.

just mentioned, I don't think it's a. good idea. And they pointed to basically. they were calling me an absolutist like. they're doing now, which I'll just. happily wear at this point. What's an. absolutist? That I just want I don't. want them to take any of it now. I don't. trust them with an anchor, you know. So. there they're calling me an absolutist. It's another way of use calling me an. extremist and others. It's not just me. There's plenty of people that are out. there saying this stuff. I mean Cameron. Haynes is saying stuff. He's got a huge. platform. You know, it seems like. anybody that's big in hunting, outdoors,

fishing, they're all they're all beating to the. same drum here. So there's something to. it. Totally. it's you've if you've. proven yourself untrustworthy, why would. I trust you with even an inch? Right? That's kind of my viewpoint on it. So, they get up and they they got an actual. plot map of Utah out and they pointed at. a parcel and they said, "Well, what. about a parcel like this? Why can't we. just have this transferred?" And I said, "I know the family that runs cattle on.

that personally. You know, they're a. friend of mine. So, you'd be taking food. and money out of their pocket if you did. this. And I don't. at least with the staff that didn't go. over particularly well. I'm not saying. it embarrassed him, but it probably did, you know. So, that was my first. interaction with the guy who who, by the. way, I thought was a pretty decent guy. otherwise. We we disagree strongly on.

this one thing, but I never thought he. was a bad guy. I mean, I've done. interviews like six months ago saying, "I think he's a good guy. We just. disagree." And I think you're making a. huge mistake. Uh, but if you're hiring. people to look into me, I don't know. about the good guy thing anymore. You. know, my opinion starting to and I think. he probably still is a good guy. There's. just something going on here. So, that's. kind of where it started. And then I. eventually. I ended up leaving that organization.

because I had begged them not to let. this thing become. a liberals who hunt organization or else. it would be absolutely doomed. And. that's what they did. Dude, we want to. politicize it. Yeah. could you can't you. cannot politicize this issue. especially as a liberal because it's the. conservatives in Utah that are that want. it you know to a degree as far as the. politicians go. In fact, at while I was on that trip,

one of the guys from that organization. way up in the leadership there, he was. we were at a dinner and he was. essentially I he might have even. straight up used the term, but he was. calling me a baby killer because he used. to be with one of these other liberal. orgs that goes over to war torn areas. and so he's doing like the meme, you. know, baby killer meme. So that was kind. of at that point I was like, "All right, you know, if you guys are this.

ridiculous, I'm not interested in staying." So then. I've just been kind of on my own trying. to educate people whenever the subject. comes up. Are there any politicians that. are against the transfer? Yeah, Ryan Zinci. Ryan Zinci has been great. He's a seal. He was He's a SEAL out of He's a. congressman out of Montana, right? He. is. Yep. And he used to be uh secretary. of interior under Trump. Mhm. Did a lot.

of great things. In fact, I was at the. OAR breakfast. I can't even remember. what that that acronym is. It's like. outdoor something in research. Basically, they go over how much money. is brought in by hunting, fishing, recreation, that kind of stuff. It's. around 860 billion a year. So, this is. big money. And then um Secretary at the. time, Secretary Zinci spoke. uh you know so I shook his hand but I. don't know him, never really met him. I. don't want to you know hello thank you.

That's it. Right. But since then when he. he got into office he has since. reintroduced this public hands and. public lands act that would protect this. kind of stuff and and add another layer. of protection to what is already there. I mean, he's been fantastic and totally. stalwart on this. You know, the the other thing that I I. know that it sounds like Lee is trying. to do is reduce national debt, which I. think we all want that, but you know,

there are lots of other ways I think to. reduce that debt. Um, a lot of other. ways, but nobody's acting on them. And. then and then and then the other thing, you know, there's the there's the. affordable housing, but I mean there's. other ways to do that. I mean, I don't. know, cut some taxes, put a put a little. money back in everybody's pocket to the. American citizen, and then, you know, maybe they can go buy a house. But. that's just one one thing. But you know.

what? I mean, do you think that? Is there anything good that could come. from this. for the everyday guy? Yeah. No, I don't. think so. No, I don't think the everyday. guy wins anything. If he was going to, there wouldn't be this many people. pissed off at me for saying I don't. think so. I think when these arguments. come up,

it the argu the the response should be. the everyday man, hunter, fisher, wrangler, recreator, you know, that that kind of thing. He. only loses. He loses access. He loses. his heritage, his birthright, all of. that. The winners are. mega corpse donors, politicians, that. kind of thing. Kind of the typical. American story.

The. the talk of. you've got to allow for growth in these. places. All of that, that sort of thing. has been argued since the beginning. Well, we just established there's been. plenty of growth. the state you met you. rattled off several states at the. beginning that the population has. doubled since 2000. Definitely plenty of growth. Yeah. And. we went to the [ __ ] moon while all of. this existed. So I don't think it's.

necessarily holding us back in some. serious way. Did we go to the moon? Well, right. I don't you know there's. that. Uh. well, we at least made a really cool. film. Yeah, I think the everyday the everyday. guy only only loses. grazers, hunters, all of them. It's just. a loss. And then there I would really.

like to drive home again the point that. this is the only place on earth that's. like this. You can't just go do whatever. the hell you want in Germany. I I like. to use them as an example because they. have a uh roughly the same percentage of. quote unquote public land as we do, roughly 28%. But in Germany, you can't. just go hunt wherever you want or go. hike around whenever you want. And. sometimes people will push back and say, "Well, you can't either because you need. a license." Like, well, you have to. manage the species, too. These are two.

separate arguments. But in theory, yes, I can. You know, I can go in Idaho, I. can go buy a tag over the counter every. year. You can't do that in other places. So, this is a loss for us and a win for. someone else. Take your bet. And then. all the animals that will go extinct. because you're saying that this is this. is where they go during the winter. Mu. deer populations are on decline. across the entirety of the West. Have.

been for years. Nobody knows exactly. why. Most likely it's a combinatory. thing. It's a it's more than just one. thing. Certainly loss of winter range is. one of those things. Mu deer only live in the western United. States and Canada like and that's it. And from my I don't like to pretend to. be overly pious because. I am a Christian but I suck at it, you. know. And I'm not trying to do a false.

mealy thing. I just I'm really not very. I'm trying to be better, but I I suck at. it and I don't want to pretend to be. overly pious. But the book that we all adhere to in. theory, one of the initial. commandments is to be a steward of. creation. So killing off a species, especially one as iconic. as a mu deer, I view as a sin, an actual. sin. And that's probably what would happen.

The only state I know of that's heard. has reached stasis. It's now it's down. from 1 million to about 400,000 animals. last I read is Wyoming. And one of the. things they did, I think Eastman's. worked with the head biologist of mu. deer there. One of the things they did. was identify some tracks of land that. were used as a migratory route, a couple. of ridges, and those ridges had fences.

on them cuz they were privately owned. And they came up with some money, bought. those ridges. This is my understanding. They bought those ridges out and then. removed the fences. And now their herd. has reached stasis. You know, some of. these animals travel a 100 miles. You know, people are worried about land. preservation all over the country, too. I mean, just just for example, here in. Tennessee, I told you since since CO, this has been. it's overdeveloping. There's piles of.

people jumping in here. And now just. just in this state, there is the. Tennessee State Land Trust where you can. put your put your put your property into. a trust and to to preserve it so that it. can never be overdeveloped. And I mean, like I said, people all over the country. are starting to worry more and more. about overdevelopment and what's going. to happen to our forests and our rivers. and our creeks and our conservation, you.

know, and and so. man, you've been on this for 10 years. Yeah. I mean, long Yes. as far as. talking to to people about it, anyone. who would listen. But I I dude, I. remember being in Iraq. I I wrote about. it in my book, however long ago I wrote. that freaking book. But we were I can't. remember if we were on an OP or we were. in, you know, a hooch, whichever it was. I think we were on an OP. We were.

talking about what do you miss back in. the world, you know, that kind of thing. And everyone was talking about their. family. And of course I love my family. and everything, but I said the dirt and. they were. even my friends kind of shocked and I. mean it. You know the there's this. concept on Twitter that it's not magic. dirt is what they say. And I understand. what they mean when they say that. They. mean you can't just bring anyone on. Earth here and then magically they're an.

American just because they touch the. dirt, right? But it is magic dirt. It's. magic because of us, our history, our. heritage, the people that made this. place. It is magic, dirt. So, not in. that other sense, but in this sense, it. is. And I love it, man. So, yeah, I I've. been on it since, you know, when I got. wounded, dude, I was 20. I turned 20 in. Iraq. So, I was thinking about this. stuff back then. Damn. The one thing you missed the most was. the dirt. Yeah, Braxton, I think that.

might be the perfect place to end this, but I do want to ask if Senator Lee was. sitting right here in my chair across. from you right now, what would you say. to him? I uh I'd say what's wrong with the. process that we have in place? And it seems like you're trying to ride. the popularity of Trump to ram through a. pet issue. And I would like an. explanation for why that is.

Well, we reached out to his office. We'll probably offer him a slot here to. give him his to give him the opportunity. to tell his side even though it's. already all over the place. I think this. is the first time you've spoke on a on a. fairly decent sized platform. Correct. I. did jo a couple years ago. You did? Cool. Cool. But well, Braxton, I like I said, I really appreciate you. coming down here. I think it's very. honorable, you know, the fight that.

you're putting up and um and it seems. like the majority of America is behind. you and not behind the politicians. I. wish there was more politicians other. than Ryan Zinci fighting this, but. doesn't look like there is according to. you. Well, at least on the right-wing. side. One more thing, we just got some. news that came in. Can you read that. off, Jeremy? Trump administration to end protections. for 58 million acres of national. forests. Agriculture Secretary Brooke.

Rollins said the Clinton era ruling. barring road construction and logging. was outdated and absurd. Well, there goes 58 million acres. Is. that what that means? Well, it depends. You have to be careful not to lean into. hysteria. The the left is good at that. Extraction. is covered under FlipMa and can and. should be done responsibly. The the old.

way they used to say it is uh graze it, log it, or watch it burn. It can and should be done. It just needs. to be done responsibly. And so this is. another one of these places where I'd. like to see the map because I don't know. who put out the very first map that. everybody was reacting to. But if you. know the areas, some of the areas that. were designated for logging were stuff. like juniper trees. And as a lover of mu. deer, I hope they cut more of those. But. you're not logging junipers. So whoever.

I want to know exactly which sections. and how it's going to be done, but yeah, you should log. I mean you have to. really. some people. we have wilderness areas now wilderness. so that may not be a bad thing. No maybe. not that may not but it says giving up. protections correct. Yeah but it all so. it could be bad. You just have to be. able to identify the plots in order to. make the the decision. Some areas do.

need to be logged 100% you know. Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, I wish you the best of. luck and um maybe we'll do a follow on. if any more develops. Okay. Thanks, man. All right. Cheers. Appreciate you. Cheers. [Music]. No matter where you're watching Shawn. Ryan Show from, if you get anything out.

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